The Ringer-Verse - 'Echo' Reactions and Armchair CEO: 'Daredevil' Edition | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

The boys are here to give you their thoughts on the first event of 'Echo,' along with their Midnight Meter rating of the full first season (13:030). Later, they try their hand at being in the big chair for a round of Armchair CEO to see what they would do with the new 'Daredevil' TV show (70:20). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did Don Draper really buy the world of Coke? Did Tony Soprano really die? Or just order more onion rings? Were those guys really in hell the whole time, or was that just the audience? The finales of our favorite shows can make us argue, make us cry, and make us crazy. From Spotify and the Ringer, I'm Andy Greenwald, and this is Stick the Landing, a new podcast where we'll be telling the story of modern TV backwards, one fade out at a time. Each episode, a guest and I will choose a celebrated series from history, from the 70s to the street, streaming era and beyond and do a deep dive on its very last episode.

Was it all a dream? Did it turn into a nightmare? And, most importantly, what can we learn about tomorrow's new shows from the way yesterday's ended? TV is a journey. I hope you'll enjoy this podcast about the destination. Starting January 17th, find Stick the Landing on Wednesdays on the Prestige TV feed, on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms,

every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them,

and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Catchup goes rogue ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This is, of course, the ringer's nexus podcast, B, for all things, fandom. We are. Tell me the explainer at dinner on. You've got questions.

He's got answers. Quincy Jones with the ring of verse. I don't like that implication. Shut up. Shut up. Wait, because of the milk made allegations or because he's the music producer? Both ways. Okay.

Got it. Double Quincy. Two Q. Jesus Christ. We are. Steve, the Arctic almond, the builder and tinker of things. We are. Old Man Van, he of the receding resurgent

hairline. We are Coke, baby, Chuck, the 24-karrick closer. Together, we are known as of our midnight, boys. I'll be ready. Okay, just let everybody know. Because you didn't know, old man, Van is playing hurt today. He's got COVID.

All right? I'm still here to bring it. I'm still here to bring it. If you hear me with a, uh-uh, uh-uh, let it go. Your dad had it. Okay? and so your mom had it and everybody's okay. You fucking had it. It happens to people. All right.

Fuck you. How about that? I wasn't being, guess what, guess how I got COVID? The rest of you guys got COVID hanging out at bars. Ooh, ooh,

ooh, ooh, ooh, we're doing drops with different people. I got COVID talking about Dr. King's birthday in Baton Rouge. That's where I got it. Dr.

King hanging out with the mayor and all that stuff. Fuck you guys. I'm delirious. Okay. Files on socials, Instit Twitter, Facebook. Save Jomi's.

Job, Jomi. I have to do two things. Number one, I have to ask you to update us on socials, which is very important. Then we just have to address that you're having a tough time on social media right now. That's something that has to be expressed. So let's start up with the- A little bit.

A little bit. You crashing out. It's a two-sided coin. It's actually. Time out. First and foremost, hey guys, appreciate all the love you've been showing us on the social so far. Continue to do that, right?

keep hitting the follow button, keep in the like button on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok. Appreciate you all. Just thank you for making that happen. That's A and B. Yes and no. Here's what I will say. The Calvin Johnson, the Matt Stafford thing, that's on me. I got to eat that one.

I probably should have put quarterback. Hey, yo. Oh, Jesus Christ. Hey, show me what's going on, bro? Wow. You got to eat what? Yeah, what is you going to eat? What are you going to eat of Matt Stahffa? You say you got to eat Matt Staple.

How am I the youngest one on this podcast? Like how am I, you know what I mean? Well, it's just how it is. We got questions. You got answers. You're walking into the same mistakes. That's how we know you young. You Matt Stafford's best eater,

doing you're the eater of Stafford. Oh, God. No, the Mad Stafford tweet, that's on me. I got to have better discernment there. the Nick Bosen one, people are just fucking stupid. That's what it is. And so, yeah, no, look,

what George Bush and Ronald Reagan did to this country in terms of bringing down the education level will literally never be fixed. And so reading comprehension, just across the board, is at an all-time low. And the problem for me is that now,

especially after 2016, I now understand that these people vote, these people have families, these people are in our society, and now we have actual dummies just running around. What the fuck this got to do with people mad at you on Twitter, bro? Well, no, because it's like really, it's a simple, you know how you like, it's a simple concept? You're like, no, actually, it's this.

And it's like, oh, you're an idiot. Like you don't understand any context, any, like, subtext, none of that. Jomi, just discovering that they're idiots on the internet. I don't really know. I'm not just discovering, but again, these people, like, Like go outside and live lives outside the internet. And that's the part that scares me. You know what I'm saying?

Having said all that, it does feel like you misunderstood what Nick Bosa was saying. It's not a misunderstanding. It does feel like you misunderstood what Nick Bosa was saying. Just release the Nozap Apologies, Joe, me just put it out. Hey, Van, you're a great podcast. Hey, Van, you're a great podcast host.

Mal is a better podcast host, but you're still a pretty good one. Would you be like, thanks, Jomey? that means a lot to me. It's weird because he didn't have to do that. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. That's not what he said, though. That's exactly what he said.

No, what he said. Hey, Jordan, look, I can read the quote. I can read the quote, man. Just real quick, just let me read the quote. Okay, so what he said? Look how upset he is. Look how upset he is. Because it's, it's, you're not.

It's what's going on, bro. Because it's not a hard concept. Okay. You're just like, oh, He said this. Read the quote. Read the quote. Let's let's look, let's a quote. Read the quote.

Oh boy. Three minutes in and we got blood pressure rising here. I'm losing my mind. Okay, Jomi, read the quote. The Packers have a quarterback who does exactly what he's coach to do. Aaron Rogers is a Hall of Famer and unbelievable. And he kind of went outside the realm of coaching. Sometimes it's good when you have a guy who does what he's coached to.

Now, under normal, like literal normal situation makes sense. Coming from Nick Bosa, who's quick. quarterback is Brock Bertie, a quarterback who is constantly talked about as being somebody who is doing, coach to being to his coach, as a quarterback who is coached to be who he's supposed to be. Coming from him, hold on, time out. That's Brock Purdy's, a guy who plays on Brock Brady's team.

That coming from him is crazy. If anything, it's an unintended backhanded compliment, which when coming from Brock Purdy, a player on Brock Purdy's team, it's kind of nuts. Okay. I will retort and then we will move on, okay?

Because I didn't really know that this was going to get you disanimated. It's fucking dumb. Okay, okay. It's fucking stupid. Okay. It's a simple concept. Okay, I will retort and then we will move on, okay? This is my retort. Let's take it back to the example that you used. You said,

then, Mallory, you're a good podcast host, Mallory is a better podcast host. Okay, let's use that framework to analyze. Would you take that as a compliment? Would you take that as a compliment? No, but that's not what he said. Okay?

What he said was Aaron Rogers was a great quarterback and can do all of these things that he's not coached to do. Sometimes it's better when you have someone that does what their coach to do. let's say that you had said, Van, you are a great podcast host because you go off the cuff,

you tell all of these anecdotes, you bring in Kalika, you bring in the dog, you do all of this stuff. But sometimes for a podcast, what you want is somebody to just stick to the content. What you're saying is, in some instances, it's more effective

to do one job in a different way. And hold on. Wait, wait a second. No, no. Wait, no. Wait, no. I got you.

Hold on. Wait, wait. And so in the case of Aaron Rogers, the Packers had number one seeds going back the last couple of years, right? Not last year, but before this. And they lost, right?

There are some people who might look and say that Aaron Rogers' hubris, the fact that he's sometimes played outside of the offense and tried to make plays that the offense didn't call for. He came off of chess. checkdown reads, went for big plays.

Sometimes that might have hurt them. And maybe what Nick Bosa is saying is the fact that Jordan Love is less apt to do that. Doesn't mean that he's better than Aaron Rogers, but it does mean that they might either have to defend him in a different way or that they might have more team success because he's doing what the scheme calls for. You, to some people,

just completely newt the fact that, that he could have been saying that as a positive about him and went straight to, well, your quarterback is Brock Purdy who does that exact same thing, which actually makes the 49ers successful. So how could you say that?

That's the counter argument to everything that you just said, even the analogy that you use comparing me and Mal who is a better podcaster than me. The thing is, I don't think it was intentional. Right?

I don't think it was on purpose. But you kids. You kids You kids You guys I love you kids Jomey I just feel like

You gotta shock this one up to the game Nah fuck that Fuck that fuck you Fuck all that shit I'm not fucking doing that shit It's like It's context We used to be a country

Niggas used to read Knicks used to like read books and shit Now like this is how Trump gets elected I'm dead ass This is how Trump gets elected, Jovey. It's, if anything, it's an unintended, unintended backhand compliment, right? Which, again, with the context of A, they're playing them next week,

and B, the Brock Purdy thing, you're like, hey, man, you think Jordan Love's going in there like, hey, man, appreciate that compliment, bro. That means a lot. You get the Coke baby crown. Is this how y'all feel every week on a year? Fucking stupid. All right.

Okay. y'all stop fucking with Jomey. I've been fucking with Jomey on Twitter a lot, man. My brother hit me up. Wait, what was that drill? That drill treat was crazy, Jome. I will say that. My brother hit me up.

It's like, oh, please. My brother's like, yo, man, how old is Jomey? I was like, he's 27, 26. And he was like, he just said some wild shit about Barry Sanders. So then I go to the thing. Oh, really? That's where you saw that, bro. Yeah, let me tell you.

That's where I saw it. Let me say how since I see the niggas are. Jomey didn't say anything about Barry Sanders. He just didn't say Barry Sanders. And my brother took it as a shot to Barry Sanders. I'm like, he didn't say anything about Barry Sanders. They can get off his dick. All right, let's move on.

We're 10 minutes in it. We're just getting the program and remind us. This is the guy midnight voice bullshit. That you guys. And it all stays in. That was too good. That was too good. Bro, Barry, I can't do it, guys.

Yesterday, the House of R gave you their 2024 hype draft. fantastic stuff loving what's going on over in the House of Ar. Joe called me. Joe texted me pissed off about Echo. We're going to talk about it. Joe is up in arms about some of the stuff

that's going on over on Echo. Questions Charles brought up. And on Friday, the House of Ar will give you their deep dive to the next two episodes of Percy Jackson. This coming Monday, Button Mash returns to talk about Prince of Persia, the Lost Crown,

and the last of us two unmastered. remastered. Remastered. Remastered. Like they were the master of the plantation, but then they turned it back over to the slaves. Oh, before we move, before we move on, it's not a program reminders,

but you guys have got to go listen to the musicals joint that was done over on Mint Edition. It came out way, way, way fantastic.

Oh, you a believer now. You was hating last week. You was a little bit of hate it. Because it sounded fucking stupid. But I'll tell you what, it was way, way fantastic. Like ridiculously fantastic. I had so much fun with my sick ass up in here listening to you guys. Like, Bravo guys, for real.

Aw. On today's show, we give our thoughts on the rest of Echo and play a little armchair CEO for the MCU and Daredevil. Spoiler warning for Echo Season 1. We were going to finish Echo Season 1. So if you haven't finished it, we're going to spoil it. We're going to spoil Echo Season 1, some of the Daredevil stuff from Netflix, any arc with Kingpin,

Hawkeye, all kinds of stuff, you name it. We're spoiling it, Steve. We're getting ready to talk about Echo. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Now, I guess we're doing a manifest because it's the last three episodes. Oh, I don't got a manifest. I didn't think we were doing a manifest.

Okay, no manifest. Okay, cool. Well, it's the last three episodes of Echo. This really doesn't need to be a manifest. We're doing two through five. The question is... Oh, three through five. Excuse me, three through five.

The question is, what do we think? What do we think? Charles, what did you think of the remaining episodes of Echo in totality? How did things sit with you? So something... Guys, I know how I come off on the podcast. Sometimes, what if? You know, it got to be.

It's, hey. It's like sometimes I'm Mr. Negative. The thing that made me sad about Echo is that I was like sitting on my couch finishing it last night. And I was sad because there was so much talent on screen. And I actually, there were moments in the show where I was like, this is really affecting. Or this is like a really smart choice. When in the finale, when you see a Locko Cox's face and you see Bonnie and her family and they're finally reunited, I'm like, this is like the kernel of the show that I wish was there and got to flourish.

Because I think all of these actors, there's such a strong emotional core to this. It's just all of kind of the MCU bullshit around it really, really just took away from that. And I could tell as the season kept progressing, I'm like, this was just hacked to shit in such a way that it is hard. for me to get invested in the characters because Bonnie, take Bonnie. Jacobs, the actress, very talented, who's on reservation dogs. I'm like, where is the rest of her story?

I don't really know who she is. We only see her working at what I think is like a fire department. She gets captured. And then at the end, Echo gives her fucking powers. The same thing with that whole storyline, the superpower storyline. I'm like, not only does it not work,

I'm like left confused. I'm like, wait, what are her powers? Does she have healing powers? Can she now give her magical indigenous powers to other people? There were all of these things where I was just like, oh, there was more story here, but you did not believe in it. So what we end up getting is like this mishmash of tones and storylines and things don't work that end up taking away from the great performances and just something that. I think actually could have been a very, very good show if the higher-ups believed in it. Is that failed?

I think so. There was a movie back in the day called Brightburn. I don't know if you guys ever saw it. Yeah, that was pretty good. Look at Steve. Yeah. So you know a movie is good when Steve goes straight like, you know, fucking Andy and Mayberry,

Andy Griffiths show 1950s, White Wonder. Golly Gee Wilkers. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like a white boy. blind. Okay. So I left Brightburn. When I left Brightburn, I was like, that movie worked. I don't know if it was good, but it was. But it worked. Brightburn got to where it was going. But I wasn't like, oh my God, Brightburn. But at the same time for what it was, the movie worked.

I felt the sense, could it have done more, should it have been more? Was there another level? Yes. and that's probably why it won't resonate with people as what I was thinking about the movie at the time. Why I won't resonate with people in a mass way. But for what I just watched, did it work? Yeah. Kind of how I felt about Echo. Now, if you know the situation behind Echo's production,

you know that Echo's a zombie. Echo is poor things. It's Frankenstein. It's everything that Charles just said it is. For some reason, and maybe it's the, understood history of everyone surrounding Echo, the understood history of the Chokai people, the understood history of all of that, that bullies this story here in a much more emotionally connective way for me or for a lot of people.

But when I'm sitting down towards the end of Echo, I'm like, yo, I'm like invested. I'm invested so much that I probably want a little more, but I'm invested. not invested. I'm not not here for it. The way the fifth episode ends is just, you know, come on, man. That's, it was kind of secret invasion level, uh, throwing shit together. Uh, not quite as bad as that, but it was almost there.

Yeah, it was kind of secret invasion level just throwing shit together. Uh, stuff just kind of happening. But what it had that secret invasion didn't have was a character journey that was worth it to me. It was worth it for her that she understood something more about herself, that she became something that was bigger than what she thought she was. And that there was some trauma there that was healed and recognized. Not in any pretty or super well-crafted or effective way,

but in a way, in a way. I just kind of, I was rooting for her, and I was happy for her family at the end and happy for people at the end. Like, I came away caring. I don't know. Weird. So I can't say that Echo was a great show. I can say that it was a good show and it worked for me. And I really do sincerely feel that way.

I also think that if you look at it as an hors d'oeuvre, it's probably less offensive than what it is. that's why they spotlighted it, I think. They spotlighted it to make people say, I don't have to care that much about it. And if you don't have to care that much about it, if it's not something central to the future of the MCU, and that's, I know something that the creator shouldn't be doing. But if you don't have to use it or utilize it,

it doesn't have to have that utility, then I think it's probably easier to say, I spent a little time with it. I liked what I liked. I didn't like what I didn't like and you can move on from it. Mitt boys. I liked it.

I think Joe kind of said it best when she put it on House of R where like this isn't like secret invasion where you can almost not see the vision at all versus the talent on screen because that show didn't really know what it was doing at all or ever. This show clearly had a vision

that we can see on screen and it became more frustrating when that kept getting hacked away. way and seemingly subtracted at every turn. And I think that that was my ultimate frustration with it. It was because, like, I know there's a really good show here.

Like, there's something really, really good. I think this cast is incredible. Alacua Cox is, like, genuinely unique in what she can bring to the MCU. And I hope that she's back, and I hope to see her again. She's a star. Let's just put that. She carries this show. She's incredible in this show. And I kept walking away frustrated from each episode being like,

I've got to squint to see what this show wanted to do in spite of what powers that be gave it. And that's probably my biggest frustration. And I think that that was like, I couldn't have taken anything more from it other than like, there was something very, very good and profound here that got lost. And I'm ultimately disappointed, but I really, really think that this show could have been something a lot better. And I hope that there's another at bat with something like this, because I think that the idea of the Marvel Spotlight is incredibly valid. And I think that the idea of Echo as a character should absolutely continue. And it's a shame because that's kind of up in the air now. Jomi, what do you think?

Hold on. First of all, you don't teach Jomey up. That's my job. Secondly, it's interesting that you are disappointed and feel away about Echo when a lot of this entire situation has to do with your fault, your people's fault. It's just weird that you would even have that kind of situation about Echo. The colonizer critic over there. Wow. Jesus Christ, Steve. Yeah. just made in 1492 that entire deal right there. I can't believe you. The fact that you could get on here right now and that we provide a cover for you

to get on here and give your critiques about what's going on. Literally, it's like Nick Cannon talking about the epidemic of fatherless homes. Yo. Like you can't do it. You know what I mean? It's like... That's fair. I really... You know what? You gave me a platform

and it's very rare that people like me get one and I should have I should have done more. Follow a question. Who's your favorite character in Django Unchained, Steve? Yeah, I know. Yeah, exactly. Wait, it's really rare that people like, you get a platform? You mean white men?

Yeah, that's it. Well, it's really where that they're, it's rare that they're given a platform by guys like us to talk about fucking echo. Like, Steve, you should have been, really, Steve, you should have done the whole thing. This was a time for you to pander

and you missed it. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. That's a shame. I usually don't miss on an opportunity to pander. It's both positive and negative. Steve is growing up

because we all know it's going to happen. 10 years from now, Steve is going to be running the network and we're going to be still doing this. I'm going to be old, old man, man. And Steve is going to be basically fucking Jesse Eisenberg

from Batman versus Superman. Yeah. The whole fucking thing. On the jar of piss. Yeah. The whole fucking thing is going to be Steve's

and we're going to be like, hey, remember when we used to work together back in the day? Now you're running. Hey! Hey! But, yeah, it's interesting, Steve. Interesting.

Jomey, now that you've gotten it out of your system early on, are you prepared to talk about the show or what? Absolutely. 110%. I can't help but echo Van in Steve's points.

There's a So very interesting familial drama here in the show that honestly had me, I was locked in on that. You know, a lot of quacks, Jesus Christ, my throat. You think about Matt Stafford. Best eater. Christ a lot. A lot of Cox was fantastic. Oh, my God.

Okay. I'll just power through. I bet you will. Until your eyes will. Wow. Jesus Christ. Grab greed. There's so many powerhouse performances in the show, but it's all left by the wayside to service, you know, some action and some larger story that doesn't.

ultimately fit in the narrative that ultimately doesn't match the same energy as that. And so as a whole, it doesn't really make any sense, but there's like a tiny little diamond in the midst of all the mess, all the hacking, all of it. And so while as an entire experience, probably wasn't the best season television I've ever watched, but there are absolutely moments in here. I was like, man, they're cooking. And I can see they're cooking. And hopefully when,

hopefully the people who make the decisions, some of the people who, who make these calls, see that kind of stuff, see the, the, the, just the heart,

honestly. The promise, yeah. Exactly. They see that and they go, oh, let's do more of that. Let's forget all, like, oh, we need to have this action scene. You have this.

Let's just bring that. Because there's a story here where Echo goes home, deals with her past, deals with her familial trauma and then moves on to something greater, right? And that is, I can't, I could not stop thinking about that. Ultimately, like, the story tried to do that, but it was the service at so many masters. It ultimately didn't feel complete. Anybody answer.

Anybody answer. Is Echo Marvel's Blue Beetle? Oh. I didn't see that movie, so I can. You see Blue Beetle? You see Blue Beetle? Hell fucking guys, guys, guys, I'm going to die one day. Like, my time is very valuable.

Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. What? Hold on. Charles. Why would you tell? It's your job to see Blue Beetle, bro.

It's your job to watch. We didn't cover it. We did not cover it here. We did. Yeah, we did. Absolutely. 100% did. No, no, no.

The Midnight boys didn't cover Blue Beetle. It was a house of midnight. Yeah. But we covered Blue Beetle. We did it. Arjuna hit. me up and he's just like, Charles, do you want to cover Blue Beetle? And I was like, fuck no. And he's like,

all right, cool. So technically, that's my me doesn't mean you, Charles. Hold on. No, there's none of that. There's no, there's no asking people whether or not they want to cover fucking fucking content slave ship, okay? I don't have to, like what? With my

chains on, I have to go see Blue Beetle content machine running over. First, first of all, disrespectful to the ancestors. I just got my ancestry back. I'm 19% Nigerian. There's a lot of Ireland in there. There was some fucking Swedish.

I take offense to that. My Naja brother down there, Jomi. Joey ain't claiming you. Jolie ain't said he's claiming you as a fellow Nigerian yet. What do we say? Jami, what do we say? Is Vian a real Nigerian? Nijia no carry last.

Nijia no carry last. Nijai Jai Jani Jai Nijah. Nog did carry last. I'm with Jomi. I'm which one of y'all. Secondly, I'll say this. Do you just walk up to, I don't know, let's go back to football, a sport that Jomi loves. Do you go up to fucking Matt Stafford, Jomey's guy, and say, hey, Matt, do you feel like playing against the Steelers this week?

Like, do you know, you don't? You're a fucking quarterback. Get on the fucking field. Take the hand off. Throw a touchdown. Let's use another sports metaphor. Sometimes me lacing. up my kicks and hitting the court is beneath me, you know?

I'm a fucking starter. Like, if we've versed in the fucking scrubs, like, let me get my rest in. You know what I'm saying? Like, let me get my rest in it. Guess what? You don't make that decision. That's an organizational decision. Whoa, franchise players make that decision.

No, they don't. They don't just tell their coach. LeBron James and, like, you know what? I'm not feeling it. Nigga, you think you know, LeBron James? You know, a lot of James? I do. You don't think you know, I'm Steph Curry.

Lateson. You think you think you're a little bra James of this shit? Now, hold on, hold on. Now, now we've gotten to the bottom of it. Right. We didn't have it before. See, it wasn't before. Mystery solved.

It was about Blue Beetle. See, this is my therapist says. My therapist says, all you got to do is keep peeling back layers. And the onion makes you cry. What is this really about? See, now we know. It's not that you do, it's not that. Blue Beetle is too bad for you.

You're too good for Blue Beetle. Absolutely. 100%. You guys could have asked me this at any time. Absolutely. And you're too good for the rest of us, the party. I'm not too good for the rest of y'all. Y'all are my brothers. But here's the thing. Why aren't we too good for Blue Beetle? Can I, can I? Whoa. Let me finish.

All right? Let me finish. I'm, I just turned 31. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was a rough year for me. I came out to L.A. And I had to change my mindset. You know, what I am. Shout out to Joe Me, what I eat. and I can't eat mid. I just, I can't eat mid.

I just can't do it. You know what I'm saying? It goes in my body. And this is getting very sexual for some reason. Sorry. Oh, for some reason? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it.

No, I'm just saying, you are what you eat. And I can't, I can't with the mid anymore. It hurts my soul. You know what I'm saying? It raises my blood pressure. I got to protect myself and my worth for my community. I want to be here for a good and long time. Shout out.

There's Steph Curry of NerdPops. I put it to you like this, baby. Ain't no part-time midnight boys. We cover the content. We cover, we CTC, we cover the content. Nah, not in 2024. We're too good for this content now. They got to rise to our level.

They got to rise to our level now. What current at? Somebody already said on Twitter it was the year of current. Yeah. This was my point about Blue Bowl. Beatle, now we can get back to the podcast, which, by the way, this is what y'all guys like the podcast for us. Shut the fuck up.

Um, shut, shut up. Hold on, hold on. Quick clear out. Shut the fuck up. Shut up. That's it. That's all I'm gonna say. I love you guys.

But come on, man. Shut the fuck up, bro. I don't even know if this is in front of it. I agree 100%. I love you guys. And I love that you guys love us. But shut the fuck. up, man.

Please. God damn, bro. This is it. Jokes aside. These are your four niggas. Is Stephen an honorary one? Yeah, yeah. This is it.

This is us. This is us. This is us. This is us. All right. This is us like NBC, nigga. Shut. Okay.

We love you guys. But shut off, man. I swear to God, I love y'all. I love y'all. It means so much, man. But, gosh. You know, come on, man. Now, like, we can play with each other, but don't fucking play with us.

Every outfit starts with a choice. What am I wearing underneath? Something comfortable? And let's be honest. Something that keeps everything looking smooth. That's where Vanity Fair lingerie comes in. Their new smoothing wireless bra has four-way stretch fabric for all over smoothing, soft lightly lined cups for a natural shape, and no wire comforts.

that last all day. All over smooth, all day comfort, vanity fair lingerie. Find yours at Target today. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimfaya, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfair radio.com. Want to support your gut health?

Take Activia's gut health challenge by enjoying two Activia yogurt today for two weeks and see if you feel a difference. With billions of probiotics and 20 years of scientific expertise, Activia is one of the easiest and tastiest ways to start your gut health ritual. Try Activia today. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, floating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort.

Blue Beetle is actually better than Echo. It's actually a non-offensive, like, delightful movie that in a healthier D.C.E.U. It's not bad. It's not the wackest shit ever, right? But in a healthier DCEU, you'd be like, oh, yeah, that's cool. That's a cool one. I didn't fuck. Oh, it's like, it's a, it's a cool origin story, whatever. not going to reinvent the will. But it showed so much purpose and had so much cultural power behind it

that James Gunn goes, okay, the movie is essentially a pilot and I see enough in the character and what we did with the character to bring that character back. Do you guys think that Echo fits that build in a sense that echo, while not the rousing success

that we would have needed it to be, that there's enough cultural force, enough grounding, enough meat in the story and the characters and the performances to where they can say Echo is a character that deserves more exploration in the MCU. That's for anyone. Absolutely not.

Bob Iger is like, no, never again. Like, come on. You know, our lineups going back to that Wonderbread. Like, I think, I think Echo should appear more. I don't know if she needs a whole TV show or a movie, but Alaco Cox is too good of an actress, honestly, and like the MCU was, they actors and actresses ain't bringing it.

So I think they should, but no. Not an, I don't think enough people watch this shit or care, to be honest. I don't think you can bring her back like you do like Thorne and Infinity War or Carol and Captain Marvel in endgame where it's like, oh, Echo's coming. That's the big, you know, the big thing. But in another series, yeah, why not? You know, have a cameo like Daredevil did in this show, things like that. ever show up in the across the MCU places. Yeah, that'd be awesome.

I see no reason why she cannot be utilized further for other stories. And like whether or not it's a shame because like the quality of this show like inherently gets our brains going as to whether or not she's qualified like the character is quote unquote qualified for more stories. Any character is good enough to have its own story so long as it's good enough. Obviously we don't think that that's entirely the case here. But we see a lot of the things at play that made it less. than, you know, desirable.

I would have loved to see her do more, and I would love to see her continue to do more. I would honestly like to see a newer and better echo story, even incorporated with something else in the DC, in the MCU. Also, she needs a new costume. I'm sorry. Like, this, that costume is like, Falcon, Captain America level. Like, what are we doing?

But, like, so I need to ask them. And I feel bad saying this, because I feel like the wrong crowd is going to latch on to it. So fuck y'all before you do. Did Black Panther fuck up the game? Like, think about like pre Black Panther. Think about Blade. Blade was just a vampire nigger, killing other vampires.

And we like, dope. Hell yeah. Think about Hancock. He was just an alcoholic Superman. He's like, hell yeah. I need to know about Hancock's alcoholic parents and how, like, fucking drugs are fucking up the community. I'm just like, Will Smith is a superhero.

Who cares? Whatever. And then Black Panther hits. And I feel like we all. learn the wrong lessons where now every other culture is just like, damn, we need our Black Panther. And I was just like, no, the thing about Black Panther that was dope was that it's essentially just the James Bond story with Chadwick in the middle of it. And it has the characters. And of course, years later, we're all like, Wakanda forever. And that's what we remember.

But that's not what made that story interesting. And now post Black Panther, it's like everybody is trying to like get the cultural moment instead of building characters that you care about and building a story that you're just like, oh, these are humans that I can root for and interesting. Instead, it's like, all right, here's the history lesson of everything that's happened to our people. And their superpower is generational trauma. And I'm like, guys, like, is this too much to put on comic book characters in a five

episode series? Like, it just seems like they're trying to do, they're trying to save the world. and like figure out racism in the context of the MCU. And that might be too much. It just might be a little bit too much. So I thought about this. I thought about this as it relates to comic book characters. And I get what some people are saying and what you were saying.

But I also think that it is being overstated a ton. not a ton, a little bit. Because I went through all of it, right? I thought about characters whenever they're not coded as specific wasps and like what does that mean? Like Colossus, Colossus, Colossus, Colossus, Colossus is Russian.

Huge, huge part of his backstory. Like, gigantic part of his backstory. Gambit is Cajun. Huge part of his backstory. Like not just a huge part of his backstory But specifically what happened culturally Between the thieves and all of that stuff Like his cultural lineage

Is a huge part of his backstory I think that is more of A function of where Marvel went Beyond the first Couple of iterations Of heroes that they came out with Because once you start to come out with heroes that were different, you had to kind of explain why they were different.

Okay, this guy's from here, this lady's from here, this person's from here, what makes them different? Why aren't we telling the same story that we told with Tony Stark or with Gene Gray or with whomever? Let's give America a reason or give comic people a reason why this character is different, why this character is like out of here, right? I think Black Panther is different because, I mean, you can't tell the story of Black Panther.

I mean, that's part of his story, right? He's not another guy that is just just started fighting crime. He's not. He does what he does for

a very specific reason. He is a king. It is part of the king. Right? And he has a lineage that makes him care about that because there are going to be certain questions where he's going to choose certain questions where he's going to choose Wakanda over the rest of the world or certain things he's going to want to do and it's not going to make sense unless you know that he's the king.

So you have to. The question is, to your question, I mean, they think there are two different questions. Number one, do all of these characters need that? Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But they've always had it. So I don't really know if that's a question that holds as much way. But it doesn't come off.

Like, when it's done right, it does not come off as. a history lesson. When I was watching Black Panther, I did not feel like, oh, they are stopping the momentum of this story to basically teach me everything that has happened to this, to these people, this culture. Now, can I, now can I tell you why, though? Now, this is tough. It's because you cared. Now, this is a tough thing. All right? That's because it was a home game. All right? And that doesn't make you bad. That could be there. That could be a fair point. It does it like that it's because it was a home game. It's because the that they start, and Ryan is a master filmmaker, the moment that they start and they go,

tell us the story of Wakanda, Baba. You feel like they're telling your story. And it starts. I have to stop there. I was not in that theater being like, man, my people, I come from Wakamah, like, no, it's still, I get it. But they show slavery in that bitch, and then you know what they do?

They come out of that, smash cut. Oakland, 1989 or 1990 or whatever. So we stay in black. We black-coded. These kids are playing in the thing, the whole nine. And what they're doing is they're, the smelling salts of the movie right there, the beginning of the movie,

the smelling salts of it are you and who you are and whatever. And as tough as is to understand, when other people look at these other things, they feel the exact same way. But to be fair, in Black Panther, if I'm just being a movie critic, if I take everything else, if I'm just being a movie critic,

it does not stop the momentum. Whereas in with Echo, it's like, I care about Maya, I care about the modern times. I'm like, I'm in, I'm in. All of, this is so interesting. I care about her as a character and her being Chocta only enhances that

versus when I'm watching Echo, it's like, oh, we're stopping the momentum of this right here to flash back to a time that I don't care about, and that is produced. Like, if you're just looking at, I'm like, the flashback looks worse than what's happening in modern times.

So now I'm taken out of the narrative, and that to me is a storytelling problem. It's not just like, you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't disagree, should I say? I don't disagree. But what I will say is like, there's two different things we're talking about here. Number one, we're talking about

whether or not the history of a certain people enhances the mythology of a character that to a degree that makes a character more accessible to an audience, right? To be there, I always think that backstory. I want to be clear, I always think that enhances the character. I'm asking you more so. The question that you posited at the top, I don't think it's a bad question,

but the question that you posited at the top actually litigates that in a different way, right? It's like, do we need all of that? Because the way the question was posited at the top was, it was like, okay, all of these different people, like, do we need to know all of this different stuff? And the question I think is, I think it's literally character-based. I think if that enhances the character and if that's a part of the character's motivations, then you definitely need to know it, right? Like, for example, no one would say, nobody would say that Xavier's concentration camp passed does not need to be.

a part of at least the contemporary story of the character. Now, you know, excuse him, Magneto. Magneto. Magnitos, like, past doesn't need to be a, now that was Rickon, I think, in the early, late 70s, early 80s, but Magneto's past as having been in a concentration camp is specifically a part of the trauma that the Jewish diaspora feels. And he specifically feels because he went through that. That's a part of it. That's both a very direct character thing and a cultural thing, right? Like if you just plot Magneto down and he does, he's not still thinking about what happened to him and what happened to his people.

Because remember, the mutants now are his people. He's not acting unilaterally based upon what how he feels. He's based, he's seen this based upon a shared cultural trauma that also undergirds it, undergirds what it is that he's doing. and that's a big part of him. So the question is not whether or not it should be done. The question is whether or not it works. I think there's a fair question to ask for Echo. I do.

This is a fair question to ask for the Eternals. We went back to the beginning of time with them, right? I think it's a fair question to ask for Echo. But I do think it's going to, like Black Panther, some of the other characters don't even work without it. Like, Sean Shee doesn't even work without it. I would actually disagree where I'm like, I think that movie would be far,

better if you focus on Shangchi and his family, not the mythology of 10 rings and this magical society and all this shit. I'm like, Shang Chi works because he's a fucking badass martial artist. And the thing that was interesting in that movie was, what is it about his family and this lineage that he's fighting? The minute the CGI shit comes in, you're like, oh, this is now a different, it's no longer really a martial arts movie. It's like this weird hodgepodge. Or you're talking about Tile Lowe. I'm not talking about Tile Lo. I'm not talking about Tau Loh. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I'm like, you're talking about Tau Loh is a different fucking dimension. I'm talking about like what the family stuff that he has and the history that go all the way back. I thought that part of the movie worked because I, the father-son relationship was something that I could emotionally latch on to. But I think with Echo, the thing that actually takes away from her character is like, Echo is already a badass. when you're watching her fight in this, I'm just like, oh, what makes echo interesting is she has taken her disabilities and all of the things that society has deemed might make her lesser. And she's used that and internalized that. And she's just like, you guys aren't going to define me.

I'm going to kick ass it. I think it actually takes away from the power of that statement to be like, well, she was always destined to inherit this amorphous power. that everybody else in this Chocta line has. I'm like, wait, so we've essentially turned her into Harry Potter, instead of being like, yo, everything that Echo has learned up to this point, she's had to fucking grit and grind it out to become this badass. By the last scene, I'm like, when she's standing with all of her ancestors, I'm like, this is kind of corny.

It doesn't have the power it should because she's not using everything that she's learned up to this point. She's using a superpower she learned about five minutes ago. So this is my thing. And then I want to hear what the men boys have to say about this because I think this is an interesting part of not just the show, but also the storytelling. It'd be interesting to know how someone who is Chokta thinks about this.

And I'll tell you why. Whenever I think of, watch this, watch me, smell the beard bomb here. Smells good. I put it on my beard. Did they like it? Ladies. Whenever I think about a character that I'm writing

or thinking about in South Louisiana, it's difficult not to think about myself, right? And when I think about myself, I don't just think about me. I never do. When I think about how I was raised, I was just never taught just to think about me. We would go out to Ventures Cemetery where all my family is buried.

My dad would start me at the front of the cemetery and he would walk me all the way to the back and he would be like, where we had now? I'm like, we had the back of the cemetery. And he was, no, no, no, no, look at the year. And the year that the person was born, said, with 1830. Right. So that's a slave.

He's like, we're at slavery. Like, we're all the way back here. So I want you to know that you're a part of all of this. And, like, these people owe you and you owe them, like, this is you. This is who you are, right? So just to take it back to something personal, like, when Kanye is in there and, like, he says what he says, I feel that. Yeah. Like, that's why I feel that.

I go, oh, shit, no, you're not just talking about me. You're talking about all of these people and all of this stuff after all of this time that I've been told I'm a part of that. And that's like a part of who I am. And I'm totally different if that's not a part of who I am. Like, I'm a different person if I'm not standing with all of those people because my survival, my viability in America has always been about numbers because something's always been trying to kill us. Right. And so for in that we're talking about how we tell these stories and like how we connect them to these people. But I don't want to speak for any other cultures that I'm not super familiar with. But I do know that for me personally, my ancestors and their

place with me has been reiterated to me like over and over and over and over again. This is why you do what you do. This is why you don't let nobody talk no shit. you. This is why you stand up for yourself. This is why you speak. This is why you do that. You owe people. It's a part of you. It's a whole thing. I don't know if you can really do that right for a mass American audience. But if it's culturally authentic to how a certain people go about doing their thing, if they speak of their ancestors, if they talk of things like this, then I kind of feel like you got to find a way to let it rock. You got to find a way to it's true, right?

I mean, I agree. I just, because that is so important, I think we have to be careful about if that is going to be the story, I think it has to resonate. Better. Like, it has to resonate and it has to have the, like, because I totally agree with you.

Did you feel that, and like, I'll ask the Mint Boys, did you guys feel that in that last fight scene where we see all of Echo's ancestors behind her? because I was just like, this is supposed to resonate with me, but it looked almost too goofy for how impactful the moment probably should have been. I think what I will say is the show does a pretty solid job of showing you those characters. You know, we have a scene with the stickball game.

Like, obviously her mom, the Lightfoot with the gun, you know, so we're not unfamiliar with these characters. So me showing up, I kind of understood what was happening. like I could follow it B for B. In terms of the effect, again, it's probably just a casualty of the show and how it was chopped up and how it was edited to where

you're like, I get it, but it doesn't really, doesn't hit me to see it. You know what I mean? I think, like, I don't, I wouldn't imagine that's anything to do with the, uh,

with, with, with its meaning, but just how the show ran is just like, oh, I didn't feel, like I understand this, but I don't feel this.

You know what I mean? mean? I completely agree. I think that like the impact of that cultural representation and that showing of all of those fell by the wayside based on how the show was presented to us and ultimately got chopped up. To know that the show was made in collaboration with the Chalkton Nation and to, and I would assume that, you know, for the most part, or if not the entire part, that they you know, were consulting and signing off on most of the portrayals that were on screen. I don't think that there would be any, you know, real issue with how they would feel about it. It's not for me to say, but it's a shame that that is also, that impact is also a symptom of the show not being

presented too well to an audience because that impact can be seen for all of us. That's, that's been the biggest frustrating thing too, because to feel like it was either tacked on or lessened because of how the quality of the show was feels like a disservice to what they were doing in the first place. Must be real. It feels like they hacked that shit. It feels like

they hacked a lot of that story out of it. And I was like for this to have the impact it needed. I'm just like, y'all cut a lot of shit. They might have,

but I guess what my point is saying is, my point of it is, is not, it's either it's an aspect of the show like every other part of it that just didn't work.

Or it's a special, or we're doing a special reexamining of what it means to inject what a corporate entity like Disney would think cultural truth and authenticity is into a piece of superhero media

because those are two separate things, right? Look, sometimes father's son shit in a movie doesn't work. Sometimes it does work. Sometimes it doesn't work. Now, it's very easy to execute because most people, even people who didn't even have dads, can understand just from a social, cultural understanding of what a father at least should mean.

But that doesn't mean that dad's father, son stuff works all the time, right? It doesn't work all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But an argument about whether or not it shouldn't be done is an argument that's probably a little bit more targeted. It seemed like that in the first place. It seemed like that to say, okay, well, I mean, whether or not they executed it right in this or not, it just is like this is a part of who these characters are.

Look, but I think it needs to be done. I want to be, I think it either needs to be handled with way more care, or I think Disney has to give these creators the power. Because, like, that's what I'm really talking about is, like, when we talk about diversity, it's just not hiring a bunch of diverse candidates. And then once they deliver something being like, we're going to chop this to bits, so that this is palatable for a white audience. Real power would be, hey, we're telling the echo story.

we are going to like, no matter what happens, we're going to tell the story the way it needs to be told. We're not going to hack it to five episodes, throw it together, and then be like, well, we tried. I'm like, that's not, to me, that's not real change. That's not real power.

If you're going to do something, like the Chocta story is so important, I just felt like what I got. I was like, and I'm kind of putting this on Disney. I feel like, y'all talk a big game about diversity, but when it comes to these stories, it feels like they're not treated with the care that they should be. And you feel like Black Panther was?

I think Black Panther was the rare moment where it's like, I just don't think it was talent. I think there was just something that it just, like, it was lightning in a bottle and it struck. And we got the full intended message of how this is supposed to be done. And I think probably what happened is that it was the first. You know what I'm saying? It's not just that it was about black people. Like Black Panther was the first time we saw someone who was not a white person, leading a fucking Marvel movie

or an MCU movie and I feel like the temperature now is different I think between where do you want to begin whether it's like She-Hulk Miss Marvel, Sean, all of these things

it is just a different time and I don't know if these creators are being given the same amount of trust and power with these characters that they need

to make the importance of these stories work. I will say this. I think that was a breathtakingly mature conversation for the Midnight Boys. And it just shows that we got levels. Yeah. Now, are we getting back to the bullshit in a second? I don't give a fuck.

But I will say, and I'm not taking away anything from the creators of Echo. I'm not. I'm not. I'm taking away anything from the creators of Echo. I'll say this. The MCU was in a different place when Black Panther came along. And the creative team behind Black Panther just cannot be dismissed. Like that is one of the best working filmmakers in the world and one of the best writers in the world.

And I also know some other things. Before Black Panther got, never mind. But it, there is, that's one of the, they nailed it because they knew exactly what they fucking wanted to do. They did. They knew exactly what they fucking wanted to do. Also, to be clear, they also got more at that. Like, you know what I'm like, Chadwick Bozeman just didn't wake up and become like a superstar actor. Like, a lot of Cox is newer in her career where it's like she does an amazing job.

But like Chadwick, you saw, if you go, you saw the fucking James Brown movie 42, all these things. You're seeing an actor learn how to carry a movie in a way that like the Chalk Donation has not gotten that as many at bats. And that is something that we also have to take into consideration with these stories is like, if more stories like this, if we get more res dogs, if we get more echoes, one day you're going to wake up and get something as commercially, like, big and successful as Black Panther. Black people have just gotten more at that. Maybe you will.

Maybe you won't. You never know. And I'm just saying, I'm saying that when you are betting on, Black Panther really proved this. And we also have to think about things just in sheer numbers. There are 40 million black people in this country. we're a minority, but when it comes to other groups, there are more people here. We are the second legacy group, the second most represented legacy group here in America now.

Our Latino brothers and sisters have gigantic numbers as well, but we were our Hispanic brothers and sisters, but we were here, we were basically the second group to get here, land here, and, you know, know, when I say that, I mean, I'm not discounting the fact that there are already people here. I'm talking about the people that came over here and established this cellular colonial project that is America. So the push to or the ability to have a worldwide economic phenomenon for a movie like Black Panther, it's you have a better chance if you're targeting black people in the first place. I don't know sometimes when you think about smaller groups or groups that have had less representation, what the chances are that they'll have a Black Panther or what would have to happen. I'm not saying that it can't happen.

I'm just saying that there's a lot of history there that a lot of people don't even want to deal with. They don't even want to see it. They don't even want to talk about it. They don't want to do it. They start thinking about things that are still going on right now because remember these issues that that haunt a lot of these communities. They haven't gone anywhere. They haven't.

So, you know, you're a question about what you asked a couple of shows ago about whether or not it makes more sense for Disney to just punt on this type of stuff anyway or dial it back a notch is a fair question. It might almost be better. It might almost be better for the visibility of a character if you didn't, right? Because then it's just like Native American character goes everywhere. the deeper you get, the more you ask for people and the way the nation is right now,

you might be asking them for too much, you know what I'm saying? I just don't trust Disney. That's my whole thing. I don't know if I trust Disney anymore to tell these stories. I never really did, but they just, they not, Bob Wigerd.

Who, nigga? Who do you trust, nigga? You don't trust Disney. You don't trust Blue Beetle. You don't trust us to show up to work. You don't trust Steve? You want me to put my faith in Big Michael Mouse? That's what we on right now?

You've been putting your faith in them since you was a baby. You don't know how I'd do nothing. nothing else, nigga. Not me. I've unplugged from the Matrix. Maybe you need to get on board with this. It sounds like truck driver

Charles right now. Sounds like it doesn't sound like truck driver Charles. It sounds like you about to call into the motherfucking Pat McAfee show any second now. What? I'm trying to start the rebel

fucking Lucian. And y'all like, y'all happy for us Disney to tell my first stories anymore. I'm telling you right now. I'm telling you right now, man. Charles Rogers Tate Is this dude

This dude is talking about the Matrix This dude is talking about Look, it's not fuck Disney Forget about Disney I will say that Me and Kalika watched The Disney Christmas cartoon Gifted a Magiiii

We sat in bed and we cried Like two fucking idiots The Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse Giving each other gifts We cried stupid It is beautiful But we cried like two idiots Bozeman was there

Bozeman was like What the fuck is wrong with y'all Can we give this a midnight meter ranking? I'm sorry. Midnight meter, one through 10, 11 and 12 reserve for game changing stuff. I got at a six. Charles, what you got? I'm same six. Like, in a strong six. If we could give point fives, it's more a six point five to me, but like we can't. So six.

I have a six. Midboys. Six for me as well. Yeah. A lot that I was frustrated with, but like there was some real, real good stuff here. Yeah, I'm a six too. Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff, but ultimately didn't, didn't quite didn't quite get there to the finish line. You guys, that might be the first time we've all agreed on the score. That is a crazy thing. We got to do it.

They're going to call us the colonizer boys. When this one comes out, they like, no, they're not. Man, that's fair. Six is across the board. That's cool. Wait, you never told me what Joe said to you. Oh, Joe made a very astute point.

Joe talked about the fact that I think Charles you had talked about it a little bit too that there is something to where I call it the Ghostbusters fallacy Remember how in Ghostbusters Vancombeen Spangler and what's the other guy's name Vankman Spangler and Egon?

Egonne? What's Egon's last name? Is his name Egon? Okay. It is Egonne, yeah. Okay, Vankman Spangler and Egon are scientists and fucking the black guy Ernie Hudson, like he got the fucking, he responded to something

in a want ads. Yes. Right. Okay. And then even in the reboot, all through the white ladies, scientists, black lady, she worked at the subway. Now, she did know a lot about the trains and stuff which helped them in the movie

and all of that stuff. But there's something to be said about, I understand it, about other characters having all of their powers come from ancient mysticism and white people building shit. You know what I mean? There's something to be said about that. There's a thing there. Like, you guys' strength is who you've always been.

The white character's strength is in their smarts and their ingenuity. Now, I'll say this. That seems insidious in a way. But there's also, and it is, but there's also this weirdness that's reflecting in that to me about sometimes the way white people look at themselves. I'll say something slightly controversial,

controversial, like being one of those down-home ancestral ties type of boys, you would talk to your white friends and you tell them all that and they'd be enthralled with it, enthralled with the legacy of your family and how much it means. And they didn't really understand how it was, in a lot of ways, you giving credence to where you come from. But in other ways, it was a survival mechanism, right?

To keep your numbers up. You need to keep your numbers up to a point to either to where you include your dead, right? You include your ancestors. They walk with you and all of that stuff. And because they're in a dominant position, they romanticize that. They literally think that's cooler than the fact that their great-grandfather stole all the land from those people and then planted that sugar cane land and now own everything. They think your experience is cooler.

Just like dance, right? Every culture has their own dance. Black people, quote-unquote, dance better than everybody else because we supplied the entertainment to a dominant culture. So if that dominant culture likes the way you dance better, then you dance better. the reality is wherever you go, I could play you videos of people dancing in Russia, in the Middle East, Aboriginal dance,

all over the place. And when you see these people dance, when you see the best dancers of who they are, you're going to go, oh, my God, that looks amazing, right? But if a dominant group is entertained and gets to set their entertainment, they say you dance better. They say you're the best dancer.

And then if they can't dance like you, then they can't dance, right? because you entertain them. So part of this stuff, they might actually think that they're bigging these cultures up. They might actually think that they're saying, hey, we think that you're more special because you have this deep, ancient connection to something

that we didn't have to have because we're too busy going around hacking people's limbs off and dominating shit or making treaties or doing all of this stuff or building all of this science. Like, this is the weird, like, feeling, hyper-cerebral part of life. And you represent the connection to nature, the connection to the symbiosis with the sun and all of that stuff.

And that stuff is actually a little bit more soulful or respectable or whatever. They might actually think that they're bigging you up. But in the real world, we know that that's not the case. We know that we have science. We have industry. We invented things that propagated life on this planet, that we as what I mean, the Aboriginal people of this world, the people that were native to the lands that they came from,

the non-colonizer parts of this have as much to do with the advancement and the evolution and the sustainability of this world as anybody else. So I think it's interesting to talk about, I think it's like almost worth its own podcast, maybe a House of All where we talk about this kind of stuff. but I think that they might think that it's noble.

I think a white exec watches this stuff and be like, no, we want more of what you're talking. We want more of the mysticism. Give me that feeling. And like as me as someone who's like, an indigenous person, black people, Asian people, we are more than our race. We are more than our culture.

Like we are nuanced individuals. But I think because it's the first, this is the first. indigenous hero in the MCU, she has to carry the weight of an entire history and culture in a way that like motherfucker, I don't even, Iron Man

might have been the first MCU movie, but we've had other white superheroes before. So he doesn't have to be like, I'm going to tell you about the greatness of whiteness. Like he's like, no, he could just go into a suit. My people came from England back

in the day and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's really the only guy we get that with a Superman. You know, Superman. Superman, oh, Superman's illegal alien. Very upsetting. All right. Illegal.

Who, shouldn't say illegal alien. Can't say that anymore. Take that out. Superman is undocumented. It would be so funny if the Republicans would have tried to, like, not let Superman into the country. Can you imagine if ICE tried to, fucking arrest? Detainment Superman?

Okay. He's just dismembering people everywhere. Like, you know, that is a Jack Snyder cut. Like that's the Zach Snyder cut. Like, he lands, they see in my eyes. He's not from around here. He's not from around here. I know he looks white.

He just comes from a planet where they happen to look white. Like, he, that's, well, lucky for Superman. That's not from around here. Superman freaking out. No, but then they hear its name, Calell. And they're like, he ain't one of us. He got one of them. He ain't one of us.

Calel. My nigga, you going fucking straight to Homeland Security. You kidding me? Like you're going straight to Homeland Security. You know? Are you kidding me? They're not fucking with that at all. If I'm being real,

are mom-paw a little problematic because, you know, they took my man's name away from him and they're like, you Clark now. And I'm like,

guys, come on. Bro, that's crazy. Cal L. Is Cal L? Like, he went from being Cal L. Cal L is a hard name.

And now you just Clark. And now you just Clark. They clarked your ass. Clark Kent put you in a suit. God. And then they buried, you watch Smallville,

they buried his ancestry. Every time my dad was like, we were trying to protect you. I'm like, you was trying to protect me. By hiding where I come from, that's some white people shit. And this had no,

just had no involvement in civil rights either. That's how you know it's different, bro. It's different. It's different. Anyway, we got to get off. We stay on these two ones.

This is going to be a long podcast. Fuck. This is what the people want. Fuck you. That's what they want. All right. It's Charles, this time to shine right now. Armchair CEO, Daredevil Edition.

With the recent news that Karen and Foggy will be reportedly returning to the cast of Daredebel Born Again, we wanted to make another play at Armchair CEO that share what the Midnight Boys would do if we were in the big chair at Marvel and making all the decisions for the next TV show Daredevil born again. My first question, giving it to you, Van. waking up tomorrow with Kevin Feigey's job.

Let's keep this simple. Everybody gets one thing. What is the one most important thing you are telling Figey about what they need to do for Daredevil or not to? For the new Daredevil show? Yeah. Bring the original cast back. All of them, everyone.

I mean, they already have, but that would have been the first thing I would have told them to do, was bring the original cast back. You have to have the original cast. You don't want to take Charlie or just throwing into a new situation. Short, quick, concise. I know they've already done it,

but the first thing I've told them to do is bring the original cast back. Frank Miller, we're done. We're fucking done. I don't need to see fucking Electroditey again. I don't need to see all the shit that they fucked up again. Like, there are so many Daredevil,

outside of Spider-Man and X-Men. Daredevil, I've read more comics. Great runs. We're talking about Bendis, Brubaker, Wade, Daredevil going to fucking jail, you know, Lady Bullseye, like Daredevil going to California, all these different runs. Like, just, there is so many good friends in Daredevil. And each time we're just like,

hey, guys, have y'all heard about a little thing called Catholic guilt? Fuck that shit, bro. We're done. We're done. Like, I don't care. I don't, I don't care. Let Daredevil flip and do some fucking ninja shit and face some characters that are not the kingpin and bullseye. Like, we can get there, we will get there. But at a certain point with this new Daredevil show, just give me anything that is not Frank Miller. Just there are...

Daredevil, to me, honestly, solo heroes, I think he probably has the best runs of any Marvel character. And it is insane that we have had a movie, we've had multiple seasons, and we're still just doing the same two stories over again, ad nauseum. Get that shit out of here.

I'm happy that you feel that way, Charles. I'm so happy for you Me? Man, they fin a pack me up So here's the thing, man. I do agree with Van in the sense Like you got to bring the original cast back.

We got to figure out what's going on with Karen Page, bro. We got to, we got to, we got to figure out what's going on. Punter, get her out of here. So here's the thing. I don't, I don't, that's not necessarily, I wouldn't go so far, okay? they got to put her and foggy on opposite ends at the spectrum

right because their characters do the same thing where they're like, Matt, you can't keep fighting, man. You know, you're going to kill yourself. You're going to die.

And it's like, cool. Like, pick one. When y'all got to do that? Right. It'd be interesting. If Foggy was like, yo, Matt, give it up,

be a lawyer. You don't have to be out there killing us every night. And Karen was like, hey man, these people hang out and going to jail. You know what I'm saying? Like,

what are you going to do? Like, step up. you feel me like that'd be interesting but they can't both do the same play the same part in the story ultimately and so I don't feel like they did I feel like they definitely did

both like fucking Matt walks in and Foggy's like oh good you dude Matt you guys can't do this anymore and then Karen's like Matt I don't know if you guys watch the show as much as it did like towards the end of it and even towards the middle of it she had her own thing

Yeah, yeah, she got her own shit. And it was uninteresting and four. No, no, no, no, no. I, I, I, I completely disagree. It's kind of, it's kind of true. The craziest thing that that show did was have a whole episode where Karen's like in a warehouse getting interrogated by one of Kingpin's goons and she killed him. And that was one of the first one.

It was great. In season one, right? No, no, I'm talking Karen, bro, by the end of, Karen became an investigative reporter. She wasn't even on the mat. Yeah, and that shit was uninteresting. If we be, in. You're wrong. You're wrong. What?

I don't know, man. Y'all really are. I don't know, man. Like, y'all really are bugging. Like, she, like, her character, now, Foggy, I'll be honest with you. Not to this. Foggy, his character

just kind of got more annoying as things went on. Just because once he kind of found out about mad and everything, he only stood to me as somebody to stop him from doing whatever he'd, and like be a, like,

an emotional albatross to bring him back into the whatever. But she had her own thing. She was trying to... Yeah, yeah. She was working her own angles. Like there were things that she was doing independent of Matt.

And it more or less was leading into what I would want to do with the show anyway is to keep it small, keep it simple, keep this underneath the Marvel Spotlight banner.

I want this to be an easy and good onboarding for more people. Because we know and we love Matt Burdock. Anybody that's seen the Netflix shows has a very good context. It's borderline Spider-Man ubiquitous at this point that we know who Daredevil is and what he can work with. And I'm not saying that we don't have any context or that we can't have some sort of

introductory story for him. But knowing that Karen, Foggy, and most of the original cast is back, that is a great thing. But we can actually allow for a lot more lighthearted fun that Daredevil is kind of demanding. Like there's been a lot more like to your point about the Frank Miller of it all.

Like there's been a lot more like just fun shit. Send him to prison bro. Like fucking make Oz Daredevil. Like I want to see this yet bro. But like there's there's so many more better angles,

not better angles, but different angles to have with Daredevil that I think a modern day MC you could actually carry with this great cast. There's a great thing that the Netflix cast had

which is being that gritty, realistic, and, you know, down-to-earth type of stuff. But, like, Foggy and Karen can absolutely have, dare I say, pluck, along with Daredevil that carries his own with that. I like it. They weren't plucky, bro. I get it. I don't know.

You saw that She-Hulk episode and wanted more of that from Daredevil? I'm like, nah. I want more light-heartedness, but I don't want them to turn fucking Daredevil into like, like Spider-Man, but Catholic. I don't want that. You don't want, you don't want Daredevil making clips all the time? No, man.

That's not the character. That's not the character. I just want, here's the thing. Daredevil in one of his, I don't know if the run has aged very well, but like, yo, let Daredevil fight fucking Mysterio or some shit. You know, Lady Bullseye, like, let's get some more, the owl. Like, let's get some more people in the mix. I'm moving away from that.

Again, like this, I want a spotlight of it all because, again, I think the MCU is in a bit of a rut because it, like, continuity is their killer at this point. Like, I want something that feels isolated. That's a soft introduction. We know that we talk about TV being extra credit. Maybe actually separate TV more from the MCU. At least don't mention the movies as often. Then why bring Daredevil back, though? Like, I agree. Charlie Cox is awesome in the suit. No, because I agree with you in terms of I don't want a lot of continuity. But dog, they're bringing fucking. Daredevil back so he can like fucking start fighting some of the people that we know. Yeah, Steve, he got to fight somebody, bro. You got to fight somebody, you know what I'm saying? Like, what are we doing? If I had my way, if I had my way, I'd bench Kingpin for a season. I agree.

Well, yeah, that's fair. I agree. I agree. I don't disagree with that, but he got to, he got to have an op, he can't be out here. I mean, the reason, the reason this whole thing is happening because they saw the first four episodes. They were like, oh, y'all not, they're not showing up to episode four. This is just legal stuff. Throw us in the garbage. We're starting from stretch.

That's another. big question that Mark that I had is like to know the season they threw they pretty much threw in the garbage and started over I got a feeling that that that that that definitely was more akin to I don't have any information on this but like I'm guessing that was probably more akin to the Netflix show a bit too gritty a bit too much of a bummer maybe a bit too akin to what they chopped up echo to be and didn't want to actually give the dedication to reshoot and rejigger and reanalyze the entire stop just be careful That was close.

It was a little close. If you wasn't paying attention, if you're not paying attention, you would have been like, hey, yo. Because I'm not going to lie. Daredevil, re-nigger. Oh, man. That's the second season. That's the second season, bro. Bring back Ben Ulrich.

Bring back Misty Knight. Bring back Mr. Cage. All the black characters. Daredevil, re-nigger. Bring them all back, bro. That's the second season. Born again is the first season. And then Re-Nigger is the second.

This sounds like a Tupac. Tupac album. Charles, we got to talk about this, man. McAvelli, re-nigger. Charles, you hate, you hate dared of them. I don't hate the show. I hate Darydoll. The show.

The original Netflix show that came out. No, I said it. You don't like it. No, I said it has 1.5 good seasons. And people act like it was all hits, no misses. And towards the end, like that third season where they wouldn't put him in the suit, I'm like, yeah, come on, man. Like, like, what are we doing, bro?

Like the king... First of all, I like that sweatsuit suit. No, it's terrible. That was great. I actually liked that. Just put him in the suit. Here's the thing. We get too complicated, all right?

I think what the Netflix dare double of it all, they went too prestigious towards the end. Like, yo, we're trying to be a important show. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Fuck face. Is he going to be in the suit if he's in jail? Dog, he's not in jail for the entire season. So what I'm saying is like, you,

you, bro, you, you, you, you're such a fuckhead. How? Like, y'all like bullseye. Y'all like that, y'all like, not bullseye. Yeah. I love, yes. By the way, I love it. Bullseye in season two was great.

That's a phenomenal. It was awesome. I love to. It was great. Who are you talking? No, because there's this way, this is what I hate about people. Dog, if we really, if we really getting spicy, if we really getting spicy, if we really getting spicy.

You'll let the not old boy scene where it's just the oneer of him through the fucking hallway carry that show. That's it. I don't want to, I don't want to, you trying to say that's whack? No, I'm saying it's cool. No, but whenever anybody brings up,

Daredevil, they only do that scene. That's the only scene they bring up. That's not true. That's a great scene. It is a great scene. But like, dog, like there has to be more. There has to be more. There is more.

There's so much more. Come on, man. Nostalgia, nigg. the shit was fucking six years ago. You're about to piss me all. You might like the nostalgia for shit that came out two years ago. Nostalgia, bro. The shit was the most popping shit of all when it came out.

Oh, yeah. I'm, hold on. Why don't we get three seasons then? Huh? Huh? What the motherfuckers was a caring like that towards the end? They was like, wrap this up. Wrap this up, bro.

Charles. Defenders? Y'all don't remember defenders? Come on, bro. I do. Charles. Why did it only get three seasons? They canceled. all the shit at the same time, Charles.

Why? Okay, because Charles. It wasn't popping. It was, that's not true, Charles. That's a whole business thing. Are you controlling? You know, that's not true. You trolled.

I'm just trying to get y'all, man. God, damn. Successful mission. By the way, by the way, hold on, hold on. You cannot like Daredevil. When you say Daredevil has one point. I did like Daredevil. The first season, I like the first season.

I like some of the second season. after that they lost the plot a little bit. I'm sorry, I don't need to see Charlie Cox like, oh my gosh, being a ginger and a Catholic is so hard. Like, I don't need to see that for three seasons, bro. Like, let's move on. I think he's hair is all right.

It's black, so whatever. All I'm saying is this. I thought Daredevil was great. I thought Bullseye was fantastic, ominous, like fucking just scary, obsessed. I thought I thought Bullseye was a 10-hour. 10 villain on there. I'm not going to bullshit you.

Bro, the Raiden Deem, the Raid and Deem storyline in season three, come on, man. Y'all, because y'all not real Daredebel fans. Y'all ain't been in the trenches. You all not reading these books. You know what I'm saying? We're talking about greatness. We're talking about greatness here. And y'all like that bullseye from Netflix. This is why I can't talk about you. It's fine. I got the

Mark Wade run on my shelf right now, Charles. Don't act like you know me. Hey, hey, hey, guess what I'm not about to do. I'm not about to stand in here and talk about I got the Elias Cromswell books. I'm not about to do that. I sat down, I watched the show, I liked the show.

If that doesn't match up with the Zigi fucking Natalo run from 1981. Ziggy Natalah, one of my favorite. Classic Eisner Award winner. I mean, the penciling in that stuff was just incredible. Right. So, just Steve's point, getting this back on track, I do feel like there has, I don't. want a lot of MC continuity because that's just ruined all of the shows. But if,

if Daredevil's in the MCU, we do have to see like, at least a little. Not a lot, but like, he can't just. But that's the thing. The beauty of what Daredevil was in the beginning of that Netflix run, I kind of want to be a bit of a signifier for what the MCU can be now. And that's again, a soft launch for something that's smaller. I agree. The biggest thing in the world when that Netflix show gave us the Punisher, we were losing our. mind. Wait, the Punisher was not great. But continue.

Yeah, you just don't like stuff. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. Are we talking about the show? Are we talking about the show? Punisher and Daredevil was dope. Are we talking about the show? His show was good, too.

His show was good, he was fine. The show was all right. Punisher and Daredevil, I'm not. Fire. Fucking fire. I know. And that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about.

There's only one thing that I don't like about the Punisher and Daredevil. It's the nerdy part of my shit. And this kind of bothered me about the Punisher about Echo and Daredevil too. Man, Daredevil be washing niggas when it comes to these hands, bro. And the Punisher and Daredevil, I'm not saying Frank Castle can't fight. Frank Castle not going ahead up with Daredevil on top of a roof and fighting him to the stance. He's like sniping from. Punisher don't got hands like that.

He can fight. He can swallow. But remember what Captain America did to his dumb ass. Oh, it's of a war? It wasn't even like just wasn't even just boom boom boom the fuck up and fight

bitch I mean I know Punisher wasn't really trying to fight back but he's nothing he could have done with Steve anyway that's the only thing that was bothering me

I'm like when is Daredevil is Daredevil man like stick would fuck the Punisher up so bad Could Daredevil could Daredevil be Captain America in hand-to-hand combat

No that's actually one of my favorite scenes in the Wade run when like he takes the shield from Cap and he's like it's so crazy in the Mark Wade run of Daredevil

he fights Cap for like a second because I think this was post-Civil War. And he was like trying to like basically tell Daredevil to stay off his turf. And like they scrap for like a couple seconds. And the Daredevil takes the shield from Cap for like the first time. And like he just stops the fight and he holds it. And he's like, this is incredible. And like he just like does a handstand on the shield. Like and it's just like he like marvels at like the physics of what the shield can do.

That's the kind of shit that I love. I'm sorry. Anyway, I think daredevil would wash Captain America for me. I don't think. I don't think he would. In martial arts? I don't think so. In martial arts.

I don't think he fucking with Cap, bro. I don't think he can be. For real, y'all ain't real comic book readers. Daredevil? Daredevil. I understand what you're saying, but also, I mean, I guess Daredevil got the ooze on him. So I blinded him.

So is that just for his senses? When we had this argument, this is like one of the OG Midnight Boys' arguments, right? Does Daredevil have superpowers? He does. He does. He does.

He does. We're not going to litigate that now, but what I'll ask is, how strong is comic book Captain America? Just, just Olympic level strong? We talked about this. Comics cap is basically peak human performance, as is Daredevil to a degree. To a degree, but Daredevil's a better martial artist. So I'm taking the martial arts over the strength. Man.

It's a toss-up, kind of, in my opinion. Cap is going to beat him. No, he's not. Yes, he is, bro. I mean, would cap, I mean, Cap would have to hit him. So Spider-Man or Cap. Spider-Man or Cap, who's winning? Spider-Man is power.

Dare-Double would be Spider-Man. Shut up, bitch. You don't believe that. What about? Spider-Man doesn't have martial words. He don't believe that. Bro, shut up, bro. Spider-Man is washing Spider-Man.

Fuck out of here. Have some shape. What are you talking about? You know, you realize, like, Spider-Man could let Daredevil hit him and then laugh at him? Whoa, whoa, whoa, wow. Daredevil? First of all, first of all, pressure points. You know what I'm saying?

This is, he's trained by the fucking Joe dog. He's so real. There's a great quote from Stan Lee where like he always gets asked well who would beat Captain America or who's ever writing. And he's like,

whoever the fuck writes it. That's it. That's not true. That's not true. Because every single time the Hulk and the thing fight, we always know the Hulk is beaten that Rocky motherfucker's ass.

Unless the thing gets off on some slick shit and like, no there's no slick shit. There's no slick shit. There's always slick shit. It's comic books. Anyway, I like the idea of Daredevil staying small. And then when we introduce somebody akin to bullseye, akin to, like, to know that a street-level character that is still beloved and still known actually means something.

And yes, it meant something back in the Netflix days because this has never done before. But to know that a show can still take its time and tell it a great story and then in time, in its own time, give us something that is a part of something. bigger. We've already had the biggest thing ever. The MCU's already given us that stuff. Like what we want is something good and then a small expansion of all of that. We've had the biggest thing ever. We've always had the biggest thing ever, Steve? Ever? It's not phone. It's not fun. It's not fun. Steve, when you say you've always had the biggest thing ever? Wow. All right. So I have to ask this. This will be my last like armchair CEO. We have to talk about it. I don't know if the MCU's,

is capable of giving us the level of fight choreography that the original Netflix Daredevil had. Like, off no hater shit. Like that, like, they got busy in that show. And can you name any MCU TV show that has even gotten close to some of the fight choreography we've seen? You know, I thought the fight choreography between Echo and Daredevil was really good. It was fine.

It wasn't bad. I honestly, when he, again, like, only in reference, reference to Daredevil, like when he showed up in Sheeulk, like, they knew what they were doing. Like, that was a good show of Daredevil's Powers when he was fighting it. Yeah. I thought it was pretty good. I'd have to go back and think about in the television shows, who's really fought because the shit does it. The shit is lacking sometimes. I'd have to think about it. I guess the show to go back and rewatch for that mostly would have to be the Falcon and the winter soldier just to kind of see how some of the fights went in that. Because I'm trying to think

of other shows where there would have been a lot Yeah, Falcon and Winter Soldger had good fights. Yeah, what have there been a lot of fight choreography? But we're talking about the Daredevil show Like people were like, people were on Twitter being like, yo, have y'all seen, did it? Like, that was a moment. That's what we remember from that show.

It's true. Is the MCU capable of that? I don't even know if they're, because like, well, I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah. Obviously, the MCU has had fucking fantastic fight choreo throughout the history of this. I know, but what I'm saying is so they're capable of it.

I guess, I will say this, and you're making a really interesting point. I think one reason why the fight choreo in those early Netflix shows were so good is because it's really all they had, right? Yeah. Like, so they had to really, really nail it. I think the MCU sometimes worse on their laurels, because they know they're going to give you a big CGI fight. But I think they could do it.

Now, will they? It's different, but I definitely think they can. Why? You don't think so, Charles? I think the thing that Steve I agree with on a spiritual level with Steve is like this show needs to be smaller. And I think the MCU has forgotten how to make that type of show where I think any of the money that they're going to put into CGI bullshit, I'd be like 90% of this needs to go to real people who can really design real good fight choreography. All these people need to know martial arts. The thing that I think it wasn't just that the fight choreography.

and Netflix was good. It was that the world that they built, every punch mattered. When Matt got hurt, you were like, oh, no, Matt's hurt. He has to go fucking visit Nightner's. Like, this motherfucker has a concussion now. You felt the bruises in the pain,

and you don't feel that in the MCU. When somebody gets hurt in the MCU, they're like, they're just going to get back up. That's just what, even the violence and echo, I thought. I was like, all right, people are dying, but I don't feel it. I don't feel like when Daredevil was out here just like washing and killing it. I was like, God damn, this is, this is tough to watch.

I don't know if the MCU has, I'm going to be, I don't know if they got the heart to go there. I don't know if they got the heart. And that's what you're going to bring as armchair CEO. Wait, so Daredevil get concussions, but he can be, he can be Spider-Man. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I was talking about Daredevil as a character, not Netflix. Daredevil. You guys think, you guys think Daredevil got CTE?

I mean, I'm rewatching this this hallway fight scene from Netflix. He's definitely, yeah, he is gassed by the end of this. He would have to have. They all have it. If superhero's had concussion protocol and he'd be like, hey man, you just took a big hit from Kingpin, bro. You can't go.

I bet Avengers Tower has got some great health care. That's what I was about to say. I think that they probably... No, they don't. What are you talking about, Steve? They absolutely don't. Falcon couldn't even get a fucking loan. That's after. That's after. I'm talking to age of Ultron when everybody was when everybody was working.

They're probably on the Stark employee health care. Yeah. You know? That's probably premium. That's what I'm thinking about. They get a 401K? I don't know. See, to me, this is, that's what bothered me about that scene more than anything.

The fact, number one, that he couldn't get alone is just, come on. That's like a, that was Marvel saying the N-word, really. Marble saying. You might as well just put it in there. Because that's really bad, right? That's kind of crazy, man. It is crazy.

Honestly, Falcons should be able to like, there's no way, right? That's really bad. Okay, number one. Number two is that there got to be all kinds of different things for the Avengers, man. They just would have to be. Because really, when you think it's a private organization,

they would have to be all kinds of different things that have to be contracts. then have to be. Now, not all of those guys were official Avengers just because they fought, but he is. For sure. He is the boy. He was on Avengers compound.

Yeah, he was really there. That was their, that was their residence. He was living there. He defended against Catman. Cap wasn't an employee. That was really the beef. No, he was at first, and then he left. Cap wasn't, Cap was not a Tony Stark employee.

I'm not saying an employee. Listen, I'm not necessarily saying an employee. I'm saying he could have been on employee health care. I'm not saying that he was employee. I'm saying that like, if anything, they weren't for CAP, there had to be some structure there, some actual structure there. There have to be some type of Avengers situation that's real. I mean, the government controlled the Avengers in the comic books.

We know that that's not the case here. So there had to be something. and he was just left with like nothing like what happens to him like there's no Avengers Do you think Falcon was ever going to start an only fans like when it got really bad? He didn't have to go that far man You could just like you know do some go to go to go to

Comic Con You know what I'm saying? Like do some appearances Some speeches take Take photos with fucking Falcon I mean there would be somebody Yeah right You know what I'm saying

I mean boy I tell you one day We're going to have Anthony on this podcast and that nigga going to let us happen, bro. And we're going to be right. Whoa. Is that going to be the title of the pod? Anthony Mackey yells at us for an hour. Anthony Mackey, just, we're going to have him on here.

Anthony's just going to get his revenge, man. Because we'd be giving Falcon the business. By the way? The MCU be giving him the business. What are we talking about? Hold on. Fairly. We should demand more.

I'm telling you straight up right now. Straight right now. For real. this fucking contract shit what are you talking about this fucking thunderbolts not thunderbolts what's the next movie the new world order

is getting to me yeah the new world order NWO Hollywood Hogan whatever the fuck the movie is this shit is like God New World Order coming into that movie would be dope would be amazing

if Hulk Hogan they got the t-shirts and everything the movie is Bro, the movie is, all of them are together, and then all of a sudden, when the villains come out and Hollywood Hulk is out there, that would be a hilarious, fucking, if that were the villains.

They should be the villains. That's the movie. Hold on. We just kept up with it. How did I not think this? The movie is, somebody had to have done this on the internet already. The movie is, Captain America versus the internet.

NWO. Xbox. Shout out Sean Walkman, one of the nicest guys in the world. Xbox,

Nash, fucking Hollywood Hogan, all of these guys, that's the movie. You don't even need to sit. Maybe the Century joins the NWO.

Oh, my God. Damn. What a fucking heel turn. Fygie, call us up, bro. Fygie,

see, this is a billion-dollar ideas out here. See, niggas, front on us. I have to be honest. Let me tell you why I'm mad.

We, the geniuses of this space, the four people on here, I'm like the last genius. I'm fourth. I'm not the smartest guys. We, we, we got the best ideas. You mean to tell me right now,

that's not making a billion. If the century joins the end of you want. Dog, that, like honestly, that would save the MCU. You'd be like, oh, day back, day back.

If the final fight is in the ring, it's over. A final fight is in the ring, bruh. The century joins the NWO. Bro, Hollywood Hogan looks at fucking Falcon. And it's like,

you better leave my daughter alone, nigga. What kind of promo is the century shooting? Honestly, you know, it'll be sick. If, like, you know, it's like the end of Rocky. Like,

that, like he's done. And then all of a sudden, like a time portal pops out. And he tags fucking Chris Evans in. And that motherfucker just comes in. He's like, yo, we watch these things. Oh, it's like Royal Roebuck. Who was the last one coming out? Who was the last one coming out?

Look, Hulk Hogan just went viral because he saved somebody on the interstate. Did you see this? He saved him from a wreck. And somebody was like, how crazy would it be you're in a wrecking your car and you reach out your hand and you look and it's Hulk Hogan. I said it would have been really fucking crazy for me. Because I got wonder if that nigga gonna pull that hand back.

I was about to say, he just seen the complexion of your hand, Van and he'd be like, ah, my bad. And just, no, nah. And nobody can hear they good right here. Yeah. So, you know what I'm saying? He just he backs up slowly just looking at you. Like burn.

His eyes get big. Anyway, that's a good movie. Like, NWO. And look, I feel right, come full circle. I feel like right now, Falcon versus a 71-year-old Hollywood Hogan, that's a fair fight. That's a fight he could win. You are not giving Mackey so much more. That's a fight.

I'm putting my stock in Mackey. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm done. Like, why we attack Mackey more than we attack the white man? Like, nah, nah, I'm putting my fucking stock in Anthony Mackey. Like, fuck y'all. Let me tell you all something right now. This is the movie.

It's never going to get made. Because, no, they're never going to give us such. If they gave us a shot, I would make all kinds of movies. I would make, like, X-Men versus the Care Bears. Just to see. Just the C. Cere Bears aren't going down without a fight. Siger.

I'll be honest with you. In the Care Bears universe, not in the X-Men universe. In the Care Bears universe, I think the Care Bears could fuck over the X-Men. Untouchable. So how? So Care Bears, y'all never watched them. You never fucking watched them.

What? I've seen the Care Bears doing against the Phoenix, Ben. What's birthday bear doing against Cyclops? That's my question. You, y'all never watched them. Charles, I could tell you didn't watch the Care Bears. I watched the Care Bears. No.

I was more of a Muppet Babies type of kid, but I watched the Care Bears. The Muppet Babies are like the Avengers. The Care Bears are like the X-Men. The Muppet Babies are like the Avengers. Now, Muppet Baby, versus care bears. Oh, Muppet babies.

Oh, Muppet babies. The Muppet babies are like rabid. They're like, no fucking goos. The Muppet babies, they even got no powers. They just got imagination. Whoa, no, they got great and they're all orphans. You know what I'm saying? Oh, that is true.

They're scrappy. They're scrappy. How about this? This is what we're going to do. Next podcast. We're going to, I want you guys to send us a list of characters. We're going to go back through the 80s cartoons characters that we're just going to put them up against each.

other. Oh, the ultimate versus episode. Everybody needs to send in the ultimate verse. Kids cartoons Royal Rumble? Kids cartoons Royal Rumble. In honor of the real Royal Rumble, which I think is next Saturday. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Hell yeah. Let's go.

In order of the real Roll Rumble, we're doing the kids, cartoons, Royal Rumble. And I'm talking about, bring me all of them. Teenish Mutual Ninja Turtles versus Thundercats? Versus Thundercats. We're talking about Gobots versus Transformers. That's a fucking washing.

Actually, wait, not GoBots. Let's do Voltron versus Transformers. Oh, Voltron. I'm not spoiling. I'm not spoiling. No spoiling. No. Voltron. No spoiling.

Voltron versus Transformers. Care bears versus Muppet Babies, even though that's a washing. I'm sorry. Do it all. Ninja Turtles against animal or animal violence. Turtle versus cat. Ninja Turtle versus Thunderc. Cats. Keep thinking of them.

Keep sending them in. G.I. Joe versus what else think? Not Cobra, because that's part of the G.I. Joe. Shalens Showdown versus Avatar the Last Air Mender, the team Advertter. When you say Shalmers, I'm like, Vando. The real, no. The real no. The real no. I don't know. That can be a part of it. That was tight, though. That was.

That can't be a part. We're not getting into Jiu-Jitsu Kuzin. Kaisen, bro. Guyson. there's going to be a day when we watch the Roney Kanshani movie and that's going to be your whole life Hey

that nigga you're gonna watch that movie we're watching that movie I'll watch I'll watch Rony Kension bro we're watching that movie I'm bringing that movie over we're watching it okay so this is the next podcast then

the next podcast is I mean I guess armchair CEO is over we don't know what we would do with Daredevil I thought it's a pretty good idea we got some pretty good good ideas. Adolphins are pretty solid stuff. I need the peanuts

versus Calvin and Hobbs. You know what I'm saying? Oh, my God. Calvin and Hobbs are washing. Come, man. Respect Calvin. Like that. Don't do Snoopy like that.

Respect, Cal. Snoopy gets busy. Snoopy was fighting in the war, bro. He's a fucking air force. He is a dog fighter. Come on. Don't do Snoopy like that. Come on.

Come on. Whoa. What did you say Snoopy is? He's dog fighter. He's like flies planes. Hey, don't accuse Snoopy. Snoopy of that species on species violence?

What's this nigga? Michael Vick? Like you are in you're trying to put Snoopy in that situation. Don't put Snoopy in that situation. Snoopy. Snoopy fucking habit dogs fighting each other in the ring would be crazy. That's another.

Snoopy or Scooby? No, we're spoilt. No, hold on. Give it away. Give it away. I got another one for the main event. The age old question. Garfield versus Heathcliff.

Man. Oh, wow. We're giving away pod. We're giving away pod, man. Come on, we can't do this. That's what in the industry you call it tease. Tune in next week. Hold on, tune in next week.

For more. Heathcliff, Heathcliff, no one should terrorize the neighborhood. But Heathcliff just won't be undone. Playing pranks on every one. Heathcliff and the Cadillac Cats. You guys don't know the song? The Cadillac Cats. Yeah.

riff-rath, the original riff-rath? All right, that's a wrap on one of the most unhinged podcasts. Follow us on social, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomey's job. Yesterday, the House of Ar gave you their 2024 hype draft. On Friday, the House of R will give you their deep dive to the next two episodes of Percy Jackson. This coming Monday, Button Mash returns to talk about Prince of Persia, the Lord. lost crown and the last of us remastered. Our producer, Steve the architect, Alman, and Jomey, explaining her dinner on it.

It's on social media. Hashtag Stafford's Best Eater. Yo. Yeah. Brut it all the way back. I just don't understand why they was booing him and his family. You know? That's all I wanted to stand up for the homie.

And this is what I get. This is what I get. It's the last time I go out on the limb for a white man. That's it. That's it. Never doing it again. Instant betrayal. Never doing it again.

Additional production for watching the Rockabon. Charles takes out. The care bears are bitches. Jomey is crashing out. We have the ultimate cartoon rumble next week. You sure is hell don't want to miss out. Boom! Hey, how about this?

Since Charles don't want to do it no more. Everybody. Everybody. Every night. You can't get me off the midnight, boys. Hold on. Everybody DM me with some of your best takes. And this is what we're going to do while we ain't got no content.

We're having Midnight Boy auditions. Yo, it should be like the voice. It should be like the voice. It should be the voice. Whoever can cook it up the best. Whoever can cook it up the best, I need your best because you can't come in here and be another van, be another Jomey, be another Steve. I need your best Coke. And Charles is going to be a part of judging you.

I need your best. Coke. Wow. We are auditioning for the Coke baby mantle. Well, let me be, let me ask this. If y'all were to trade me, if I was on the chopping block, I'm fucking up the chemistry. How much would I go to for another podcast? Like, what would you need to get back? That's a good question. They trade a Pascal for three first. So I need Pascal three first, right? For three first, right? So, but see, here's the thing, though. Here's the thing with the trade. you're a distressed asset I'm a distressed asset now

you don't want to be here I'm in my prime you don't want to work we have to send you home you like yeah yeah you're taking the time I can still want on any given night

I can still light it up and I'm a distressed asset I know you're a distressed asset you don't want to work I do want to what are you talking about you told your agent you leaked to Shams he was like hey

I don't want to be here trade me send me somewhere else. Bro. That's what you did. Because if we want to be real and we're getting to the bottom of it now, sorry. We're peeling back the layers.

Y'all don't want to win a championship. I'm trying to take us somewhere and y'all don't want to win a championship. Y'all want to be in the mud? By not playing? Watching this fucking. What if? Come on, bro.

Come on. See, here's the deal. This is a deal. Get back to it because I got my Blue Beetle question. I didn't know it was going to bring up this whole thing. I forgot to do this. I was sorry. I actually forgot you didn't see people.

But this is what I'll say. This is what I'll say. You do make yourself a distressed asset, Charles. And by the way, you are like, you think, you say you're the Steph Curry of the thing. And you have that type of talent for sure. But really, you're more of the meta world piece, right? Yo, what?

No. No. Shout out to meta. That's a fucking great NBA player. What you're talking about. One of the biggest shots of my life. Big shots of all right. But what you are is somebody who.

is incredibly, incredibly defensive-minded, right? Super, super aggressive. Can score pretty much when he wants to, but at the same time, has some things he hasn't worked through mentally. And so... Because I don't want to see Blue Beetle? Was the what if podcast is Malice in the Palace?

It was. Oh, my God. That's such a good, Jomey. You back. Oh, wow. See, this is the thing I'm talking about with Jomey, man. See, like, that's the thing I'm talking about. Show me, that was his malice in the palace.

Yeah, it was. And now everybody can't stop talking about it. They can't stop showing it on SportsCenter the whole nine.