The Ringer-Verse - ‘Harley Quinn’ Season 3 Finale, And Showrunners Patrick Schumacker, Justin Halpern, and Sarah Peters | Mint Edition

Episode Date: September 17, 2022

Jomi and Steve are back to celebrate a fantastic third season of ‘Harley Quinn’ by highlighting some of their favorite moments, characters, storylines, and more (02:40). Later, they are joined by showrunners  Patrick Schumacker, Justin Halpern, and Sarah Peters to discuss developing Season 3 of the show, what to expect from Season 4, the future of Harley and Poison Ivy’s relationship, and more (26:00) Hosts: Jomi Adeniran and Steve Ahlman  Guests: Patrick Schumacker, Justin Halpern, and Sarah Peters Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone. This is Chris Ryan from The Ringer. As many of you have heard by now, we lost a treasured colleague and friend over the weekend. Jonathan Charks passed away on Saturday. John was 34. He leaves behind a wife and a son, and we are obviously mourning his loss and sending all of our love to his family right now. If you go to the ringer.com slash Jonathan Charks, that's J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N-T-J-A-R-K-S. You will find a memorial page for John, which has links to his GoFundMe that benefits his family. and the amazing writing he did throughout his experience. I encourage you to go there, and if you can, please support the Charks family. Briefly, I will just say that John was among the first people that we hired to work for the Ringer, so he was instrumental in defining the voice and perspective of the site. He has as much to do with what this place is as anyone else.

And throughout his experience with Cancer, John communicated eloquently about the challenges he was facing, both through his writing and his podcasting. You could never stop John from talking about his passions. It's one of the things I loved about him. Over the last few months, whenever we would talk, whenever I would reach out to see how he was doing, I would try to keep it very John focused,

and the next thing I knew we would be talking about James Hardin or Better Call Saul. He really loved this stuff. He loved talking about it, celebrating it, debating it, illuminating it. We're going to keep putting out our pods and writing while we grieve, but we wanted to let folks know that John was in our hearts and that his family was in our thoughts.

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Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. evolved. You want to help people. You're not a villain anymore. That is not true. Why won't you just admit it? Because I don't want to lose you. Welcome into the Ringerverse. It's the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. And guess what? Welcome back to the Mint Edition. It's a once-in-a-while podcast about all the latest fandom that you just can't live without. I'm your host,

Steve Alman, senior producer at The Ringer. joining me today as he does always. Explaner of the Midnight Boys. Social for the ringer. He's currently playing bass for the band, Jazza Pajiza. It's Joey Adirond! What's going on?

You know, I had to fill in for my guy. My guy, Eric, he, you know, usually pays the bass at Jazz Pajza, but they needed a fill in. So I had to dust off my old guitar and get to work. But it was cool, man. We put a lot of good sets off. What's your repertoire for bass? Like, what are you some good riffs that you probably?

I'm guessing you're a R&B guy? Nah, man. You know, I like soul. I like jazz. You know what I mean? Like, I like to put the, you know, the funk back in the bunk, you know what I'm saying? Okay, okay. You know, four string, five, like whatever, bro.

Like, I do my thing. I stay in my bag. And listen, and I want you nowhere else but your bag. And that's exactly where you're going to be here today. That's right. As we talk. about the season finale and overall impressions of season three of Harley Quinn. Yeah!

One of the best dang... You just, you blew out Kerm's ears. Kerm is fine. No, he's not. His ears still work. You crippled him right now. I'm excited. What can I say?

I'm excited. We are. We're very excited to talk about Harley, but we're also excited to talk about what else is coming up on the feed. Programming Minders before we begin tomorrow. Talk of Thrones is back right after. Episode 5, House of the Dragon. join CR, join Mallory Rubin, join Joanna Robinson.

Immediate impressions about this rollicking episode. Hopefully, not as controversial as the last one, but we'll see. Tuesday, House of Our is going to give you the deep dive into the latest episode of House of the Dragon. And Wednesday, the Midnight Boys are going to be back with their instant reactions to the three-episode premiere of Andor. Listen, man, you've been talking mad gas. Everybody's talking mad gas. Everybody's putting his gas. I'm ready.

Into and or I haven't seen it yet. I haven't tapped in. Don't you worry, buddy. I think you're going to be in a really good place. All I've been hearing is it's fire, is this, it's that. Listen, my, I thought it was just, I mean, summer is basically over, but summer for no expectations. I don't know. Man.

Might be cooked. That's some good stuff. Might be cooked. Well, all that's happening on the Ringiverse feed. Where can we find that if we want to find it on the internet? I'm really glad you asked me that, Steve. Let's, um, let's take a moment here to, uh, Sit in reverence.

Sit in reverence of the ringer social feeds. Guys, I just want to say. I just cross myself. I just want to say thank you so much. The love, the support you've shown us on social, we cannot get enough, and we appreciate all the kind words, all the follows, all the likes.

Thank you so much. If you want more content, if you want more info, if you just want to send me funny jokes, you can do that at the ringerverse on Twitter, at the ringerverse on Twitter, the ring of verse on Instagram and especially especially at the ring of verse on TikTok. We got some fire content coming from you from all angles.

So please make sure to follow us on the socials. Also, join the Facebook group and say nice things because we can really use that boost in our lives. We always love to hear that. Love it. And on today's show, you're going to be talking about the excellent season three of Harley Quinn. And we're also going to be giving out some special season awards for our favorite moments, characters, and everything in between. We have some special guests this episode.

Showrunners Justin Halpern, Patrick Schumacher, and Sarah Peters will be joining us for a great chat about season three and more to come for season four. We had a great chat with them. I'm really excited. But coming up now, we've got to be warned. Our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning, we're going to be talking about everything that's happened in Harley Quinn's seasons one, two, and three, and pretty much just how much we loved it.

You ready for it, Jome? I'm so ready to dive back into Gotham. Let's go. All right, Jomey. Thoughts on season three as a whole. Man, from beginning to end, it was a wild ride, and I loved every second of it. It was so much fun.

You know, we finally get to see Harley and Ivy be a couple, be together. And, I mean, we talked about this in the episode that we did for the premiere, where we were like, where do we think they go? Like, we pretty much said, like, this season depends on them and their relationship. And not only were we right, it was beautiful, it was lovely. They had their ups and downs, which we'll get into.

But it was just a fantastic season of television. And I enjoyed it so much. I absolutely loved it. I don't know if I want to call it the best season of Harley Quinn just yet, because I think that there were a couple of great ideas that we came out with for this season and some previous seasons that I might have glommed on to a bit more. But that's not to say that this wasn't an absolute banger of a season. Yeah, man. We had a great episode of the Villies. We got to see a psychological indictment of Bruce Wayne. Our guy got locked up for tax

fraud. That was some music. It's the end of the road for him. Like, I was genuinely surprised at the things that we got to see from this season. Do we think that this might have been the best season yet for you? Like, let's rank these seasons. Like, for me personally, I really kind of loved season two because I think the will-day or won't-they of Harley and Ivy,

along with the psycho angle that came out at the end of that season, might have been my number one. And then this right behind it and then season one. I think I have to agree with you there, but my reasoning for season two is because there was just a lot of kite man. And, you know, that's my guy. The Kite Man arc is seminal. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. I was locked in, man. No, but this season, I mean, even if we're like, oh, for instance, two, that doesn't make this season anymore, already less special. It was very, very, very much tied into the characters that we love. We got to see more Catwoman. We got to see more Bruce Wayne. We introduced the Bat family this year, right? So many great ideas.

So much cool stuff. No, no, it's genuinely incredible because the toy box that this show has is so deep and so inventive. We've mentioned this before, but the cachet that this show has to kind of just play in so many spaces, and we're going to be talking about this

with Sarah Patrick and Justin, the amount of things that this show can get away with is actually incredible. And I think that we want to really, like, give credit to some of our favorite things this episode. So we're going to be talking, about and giving away some of our season three awards and talking about some of the best things that happened this third season. So why don't we start off by giving away our award for best character this season?

Who took the cake for the best character arc that we had this season? There are a lot of candidates. Carly was great. You know, we love ourselves some Bain over here. My boss to make us. You know, but you got to give it to who I thought had the best year, the best season, Poison Ivy. That's my pick, too. Poison Ivy, like, not only a great counterpoint to Harley as a romantic interest, but, like, also the ideas that she's coming through and, like, the actual growth that she shows through that relationship with Harley is actually pretty incredible.

because, like, I mentioned this in the beginning of our season premiere pod, like Harley and Ivy are kind of like opposites as far as attraction is concerned. Like, Harley's very, like, attached and very people pleasing and very, like, wants to do the absolute best for Ivy in the exact moment that is called for. Ivy's very staunchly independent. She's very, like, I don't need help. She's very self-reliant. And when it comes to that dynamic at play, at every turn, when she's kind of in a bit of a friction point when it comes to either Ivy or the sideploc of getting back Frank or plant Armageddon, it was really great to see how she responds to those things and grows with Harley every time and having a bit of great trust between the two of them.

And it's something that I really, really enjoyed. What for you made Ivy this best character? Ivy was the best for me because there's a scene in season one where Harley's like, I'm going to go kill Robin. And Poisoned Ivy's like, Harley, you can't kill him. Fast forward to the season finale. And Harley's like, hey, I don't know about this whole criminality thing. and she's like, I got to kill.

And Poison Lime's like, I got to kill the Joker. Right? Like this, yeah. It's a flip where like if, if you hadn't seen the whole show, you'd be like, yo, what's going on? Like, I thought, you know, that you would be the one. But watching this season, you realize, oh, they're on two different paths. And while, like, we can kind of see, like, it coming for Harley,

for Poison Ivy, you start to realize that laying in the season, like, oh, like, this is what? what she, like she's always wanted. Like, this is the person she's always wanted to become. And to see her fully realize that in this season, to finally become the villain that she wants to be, ultimately wants to grow into was cool. And I really think that that made the season,

that made her character stand out. She obviously has a lot of depth. And the show is, I think, the most willing to explore her depth the most. it's genuinely a great turn for Ivy now that she's in this committed relationship with Harley to really test that independence from her and know that she can let more people in she's always kind of been a little like not cold

but like slightly keeping the rest of the crew at arm's length because like this is like this is about me like I've got my own agenda all these things she just like me for real exactly and letting that family in is a great, like, earnest and well-earned moment that this show can give. So I genuinely loved it.

So next award. Next up. Best side character. This was a tough one for me because it was like, I'm trying to cheat and maybe get a tupper in here. You try to pull a Mallory. A little bit, a little bit. I learned from the best.

Give me your best side character. My best character. I'm going to go a little bit off the bean path here. Back girl was great. Back girl was great. Badger was so much fun because, you know, speaking of Poison Ivy's change, Harley Quinn's change. You see last season where she meets background, it's like, ah, cool, I'm a, you know, yeah, you just do what you got to do over there. I'm going to be over here.

We're not really like that. And even in, you know, when they do the Mad Hatter mission, she's kind of like, yeah, like I gave you my number, but you really not supposed to text me. Like, this is kind of like courtesy thing. Yeah, when I hit you with LOL, that means stop talking to me. Yeah. You know what I mean? She really is like, Drake, giving you. my number, but don't hit me on no dumb shit.

Exactly. But Batgirl is so persistent and so committed. We're like, Harley, you got good in you. This and that. And at the end of the day, like, they're teammates. Right. No. And they are. And like, it's this, there's this genuine like enthusiasm and like welcomeness that Babs has towards her that like, like, I genuinely love

because it's kind of like a little bit like Michael Sarah's version of Robin in Lego Batman. Or like she's like welcoming to anything. Like the fact that she knows who Harley is and she's still like, okay, well, we're helping out here. Like I think that's great because it gets on Harley's nerves so much. So much. But she kind of just wills it into kind of being a part of the family. And like we'll see near the end of this season that they're kind of welcomed her with open arms.

With open arms. It's a true earnestness to Batgirl that even though she knows all about Harley's exploits and what she's done, she's still like, hey, you have some good to offer, why not come over on this side? And I loved every moment. Even the finale where she's like, wow, I can't sign because supposed to be Batman, it's like, no, Batman is, he's the guy on the, on the lease. He's the only person. He's his, I do like that that's the legal binding name that people sign for is Batman.

Batman. Yeah. What about you? What is your favorite or best side character this season? So if I have to actually give this to one person, it was going to be Catwoman. But my cheat is going to be Catwoman and sad boy, Bruce. Because not to say that Catwoman isn't an interesting enough character on her own, but I think the main interactions that she has with Bruce,

knowing that she's above all of this, she doesn't need Bruce. Like, Bruce is very much the, like, clingy, like, kind of needy boyfriend that is just like, well, what do you want to do tonight? Like we can do anything And he's like rubbing her feet And all of these things And he's like kind of so Attached to her that

Selina's just like Oh whatever Like it's not something that like We really get to explore Because it's always like Oh they're just always in love They're always the ones that are like Attached at the hip

When Bruce is kind of the actual baggage That Selena has It's no it is Because like Bruce is so complicated and so messed up that like when she just kind of breaks things off with him he's beside himself playing Wonderwall

in the Batcave with like a beanie and a hoodie on. Down absolutely horrendous. Down colossal. Just down abysmally. And it's so funny because that's so peak Bruce to me is where he's just like playing guitar writing poetry and I think that's brilliant.

I loved the fact that that was happening. But I think Selena definitely made a major showing in season two. but I think season three when they're hanging out at her apartment all of those like the amazing

Japanese toilet that she needs to show off all of those things were great that was like a perfect perfect turn for her that was great it was great

next award best episode for me you know and I just want to be very clear let me open up to the list just real quick the first episode

that we did for this season three of probably Quinn Steve was like hey let's see what happens if they do a musical man

Like I would love to see that. Okay. And I was like, nah, I'm out. I was like, nah, I can't do it. As somebody who actually genuinely enjoys musicals like you, I'm so, it still baffles me that you wouldn't want it. Listen, I've been hurt before, okay. I just got done watching the new season of high school musical, the musical series,

and it just takes a toll on you, man. You don't need it. Okay. It just waits on your heart. This isn't the pain Olympics right now. I'm just, let me tell you something. All I'm saying is, you know, it takes a lot out of you. Right?

So I didn't know. But I, I'm going to sit here and be honest with you guys. I'm going to say something that I don't usually say. Audience is just us, right? It's just the three of us in this room. Nobody's listening. Nobody's listening. I was wrong.

Yes, you were. I was wrong. That's fine. It's my favorite episode is it's a Swamp Thing. And it's a great episode. Oh, man. San Richardson is great as Swamp Thing. Yes, incredible.

Bringing Nora back. It's great. But the scene with Music Meister. And that was. Batman. It's the funniest thing I've ever seen if I like. It was so incredible. Because, like, again, you think, you think, oh, yeah,

condiment king, oh, yeah, Clock King, all that stuff. Like, you think that the Rokes Gallery is weird. But Music Maister, music maister, like, I forgot who that was. Like, I didn't really, like, who is this? And it's like, he's run DMC. he's like he's just giving them like music therapy absolutely incredible but like to your point for that episode

Sam Richard Sim is Swamp Thing and like Nora coming back like that's so funny to me the former Mrs. Freeze going through a bit of a rough patch again going on a bit of a tear with Swamp Thing I absolutely adored that so unto me my favorite episode was

the villies. And it's really only because I love a like, just like a one-two punch of like every single small sight gag you can cram into one episode through different characters. The fact that man bat like had a story about his mother's leukemia that we did not hear but we're told was great. Toad was just absolutely heart. We get like Joker do

in this. We get Catwoman's amazing speech about like you just did this to me because I'm black. And then they pan over to black mantas? He's going crazy. Like, yeah, yeah. And the Joker's like, he's black. He didn't know.

And then so like all of that being like, I love it the idea of like villains getting together and like just having a night for themselves. And we also get this amazing closure that Kite Man is doing all right, that he's moved on. He's got a great new girlfriend. And hearing all of these great things. that like it's kind of a great like tying of the bow for season two that I really, really enjoyed because after that we see like how Joker's living with his new family again. He'll start to run for mayor, all these things. I think see the episode three, the Villis was probably a very great launching point to have a lot of great fun. Yeah, man.

That's great. But again, all too, like all too many great ones. Quick honorable mention to Batman Begins Forever. the incredible episode where we take Psycho, once again, to go into Bruce Wayne's mind. We need Psycho in the show more because we need to do this to every character.

We really did, like, I know it's going to get wrote after a time, and I know it's going to get boring, but, like, honestly, I want to dive into every single person's mind and then have a fun bottle episode there. Because it was so fun when we did it with Harley, great when we did it with Ivy,

amazing when we did it with Bruce Wayne. Like, and it's been the best, like, kind of indictment about what Bruce Wayne and Batman is. the fact that like this actually makes no sense. Like Batman actually makes no sense. If you actually like could have gotten therapy, you could have gotten this.

You could have done it like, and the fact that Harley could diagnose that is awesome. It's great. For me, like if I had to pick a, hey, I don't know mention, it'd be a thief of mole and an orgy.

There you go. That's a good one too. It's a good episode. Like you think, you know, if you know the lawyer, you're like quarter owls, ooh,

spooky. This is a serious business. No, they just like, you know, on the floor having sex. just real nasty. Which, honestly, I think when you achieve your superhero agenda, but you want to keep the

club going? Yeah. It's either that or like a run club or a book club meeting or something. Like, you know. They also have that scene with Jim Gordon and Bruce Wayne. He's like, yeah, no, I know who you are behind the mask. It's cool. Like, I think, ooh, it's, and like, you can think Bruce is like, oh, he's going to figure out on Batman.

Even the shadow behind him is making the cowl. Yeah, the Batman's similar. He's like, oh, you're Bruce Wayne? is like, yeah. Oh, Jim's an idiot. It's great. No, I love Jim Gordon being an idiot. That's the best.

Oh, man. This show's amazing. All right. Best gag. Best gag. I mean. Like, there's no, like, there's a metric shit ton of jokes in one episode, let alone all of them.

Do you have a favorite gag that stood out to you throughout the shit? Like, is something that you keep thinking back to you're thinking that you think, My poster maker. Mostemaker. My poster maker. So, like, that's, That's a multi-episode arc for our pasta-making Bain. He finally gets over it only for them.

He does it for himself, all right? Baines are doing it for themselves. He's got to call. I need to call my therapist. She said I should text her in these situations. In the situations only to see her as a messed up tree. Yes. Oh my gosh.

And then he's still trying to talk to her. It's great. It's fantastic. I mean like Bain as a whole is like one of the funniest characters on the show but just him going through that journey the whole season of like trying to like not I want to blow you up

him like not doing that it's just honestly it's cinema just great cinema I loved it I couldn't agree more that's a fantastic gag but like I always just tend to remember the joke that might have just made me laugh the hardest or like makes me pause to be like

wait a minute, that's so fucking smart. That's so, like, clever, and I don't know why they, like, it's so simple. And it's in Batman Begins Forever when she's, when Harley is talking to a young Bruce Wayne, and he's basically giving him the reason to, like, thinking that Batman is the only way that he can actually help Gotham. And she says, well, I mean, you're Bruce Wayne. If you can, if you really wanted to help Gotham, I mean, maybe you could help with, like, I don't know, affordable housing.

And then baby Bruce Wayne says, people pay for housing? And that's such a great indictment of who Bruce Wayne is because he's so out of touch. And he's so, like, stuck up his own ass with his own sadness and entitlement that he doesn't even think about what the little people are actually doing. And it's a great, great note that we got from Justin before our interview that, Like, there's a note on the writer's wall that says billionaires should not exist. And that is a very good indictment for what Bruce Wayne is should be in this show. I just love that joke. It speaks to how much of an airhead Bruce Wayne is.

I absolutely. One we got to talk about is his Joker being like a socialist? Joker Bernie Sanders. He's like that the episode where he's trying to get his kids into a, into the Spanish He hates common core Doug He's like I'm not like a socialist

I am a socialist It's great I was like I don't know I don't condone the behavior From the Joker but I understand Using a bank robbery to Establish a platform for mayor is A real bold statement that I genuinely think

that Gotham could use more of It's great I was when I saw that And then have that be recurring bit To know that Jim Gordon was losing in the polls to a guy impaled on a pole. It's all about the polls. Again, we can't decide. This is an impossible award.

So we're going on to the next one. It's great. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you.

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Best side plot. Okay, we always love a B plot. We always love a thing that kind of takes us off the beaten path. What did you love for this season that wasn't exactly in the main viewpoint,

but on the periphery? I loved the Bruce and Selena relationship. So good. So good. You know, like it starts off like, They're just hooking up. Like, you know, she comes to the crib, has her own wing in the manner. And then, like I mentioned before, the guy episode over is like Bruce wants more,

Selena wants less. And so they kind of break it off. And he's like, you know, he goes down this well of sadness to the point we're like, yeah, I'm going to bring my parents back. I can't have Selena. So I'm going to, you know, move on to the next thing. And when that goes awry and he's still alone, but she shows up to the premiere. Oh, so nice.

Because she knows that him being alone is tough. I was like, wow. The line was, even though we're not seeing each other, I still want to see you happy. And I'm like, I didn't cry, but I had tears in my eyes. I'm not going to. It was beautiful. I'm not talking about it.

I was, that was real beautiful, man. I ain't going to hold you. I love that. I love, like, you know, they have so much comic history together. than they have so much, you know, on-screen history together. But even in that moment, you're like, you see a new side, a different, you know, evolution of their relationship. And it's awesome.

It was awesome to see. And I really liked following that throughout the season. What about you, man? What was your favorite side? King Shark and his dickbag brother. Jesus Christ. Just two opposite sides of the coin. I understand that.

But, like, man, it's so funny when he's got to go back to the ocean and, like, have the funeral for his dad and, like, talk about his brother, about like, we're going to be basically demolishing the kingdom for a resort. Yeah. And he's like, well, wait a minute. Can't. And it basically fights his brother to the death for it. Yeah.

Incredible. Because, like, we, I love Ron Funches. I love King Shark. I love the, like, the liberties that this show can take with the confidence that it could have to just take us to the ocean for half of an episode and have, of King Shark deal with his bullshit is so refreshing and so wonderful to see.

I love it whenever we get that. I want more of that with the gang. And to me, that was one of my favorites. All right. Surprisingly real moment of the show. Sometimes things hit close to home. Sometimes this show's got a lot of real shit that we got to talk about.

Why don't you go first, man? I'm talking about Harley's anxious attachment. It's real because applying anything that you can see to a relationship that you've either had or people that you know or places in situations that you've been in. Like, you know,

who among us hasn't been at odds with somebody that we've been with or, you know, overthought, underthought things? Harley's just trying to do her best because she loves Ivy to death. And at the season finale, like the support that she gives Ivy only because she was,

wants to do it. Like, she doesn't even like the Legion of Doom. She doesn't even want anything to do with it. But the fact that Ivy wants that, and she wants to kind of do those things for her, even though it's kind of antithetical to who she is, it's wonderful. And it comes at the end of an amazing line that we heard at the top of the show that Ivy is like, you know, we can want different things and still be together. And we can still work with those aspects of ourselves. Like, that, was beautiful. And like, probably one of the best things that I've loved about this show is the fact that, you know,

they've been on record by saying that, you know, Harley and Ivy won't break up. And it's, it's shit like this that makes me know that it's not going to happen because that's, that's a really, really beautiful thing. Yeah, it's great. It truly is. For me, it was Harley keeping Batman secret.

You know, you talk about... Well, that's just a HIPAA violation. That's just just, you just can't do that. That's a, that's a, that's Dr. client privilege. But, I mean, they've been at odds for so long. And then at the same time, she finds out this incredible secret that, you know, could take down pretty much her number one nemesis in Gotham, right? If she wanted to go back and be like, I want to take over Gotham, the only person is a bad man, I could just be like, oh, Bruce Wayne is bad man, call it an afternoon,

blah, blah, blah, I'm done. Right, right, right. But she sees the turmoil in him. She sees, like, the pain that he walks around with every day and she's like, dude, you just need someone to talk to about this stuff. You just need some else. It's incredible because you forget that Harley's a therapist. And she started helping

people. She started being that person that thought she could fix the Joker. She thought that she could help people to come to understand those things. Like, therapy is an amazing thing. It's a human right and it's a wonderful, wonderful thing.

that Harley could kind of see that in Bruce and be like, listen, like, I'm a villain. I'm not a bad person. I'm a villain. I'm not a criminal. It's two different things. Exactly. Exactly. No, but yeah, and to the point where, you know, she's just like, hey, I'm your therapist now. I'm going to take care of you. That was really like, wow, you know, she didn't have to do all that.

She could have just kept it pushing, but she saw somebody who needed help somebody. She saw somebody who needed to talk to, that needed to talk to someone. and she made that call. That was really beautiful and I love that. Also, get oral consent so you can't get sued. All right. Next award. I was about to say, man.

What you're talking about, man? No, Harley's got to get oral consent from Bruce to be his therapist, so she can't get sued. Listen, if anybody's going to litigate, it's Bruce Wayne. Listen, all I'm saying is, if anybody's going to take that shit to litigation. All I'm saying is, what would they talk about that Bruce Wayne doesn't give oral sex? I don't know, man. It took a second. I was like,

where are you going with this, pal? He's like juvenile. No, my little lip service. Oh, boy. Next. Next category, please. Best Alan Tudek moment.

Our favorite guy, a king amongst kings, Alan Tudik, voiceover artist extraordinaire, probably my favorite part of this show from the cast. What was the, what was one of the best things

that he's done all season as Clayface, as Joker, as any of these other great, characters that we've seen so far. I'm gonna imagine we have the same one. I'm gonna imagine so that we do. And it's from my favorite episode, The Villis.

Like Jokadoo. It's great. It's a great rap. It's a great bit. Real Pokemon rap energy. Like, it's a really, it's like wholesome, but also like kind of fucked up. I love how it comes back in the season finale. He's like walking down.

He's like, hey, like Joket. Like Jokadu. And it's like everybody. It's great. It's followed by like, I see I'm in seat ZZ69. That's not a very mayoral place to sit. Now he points him to the bag, and like, yes, sir, you're up in the back corner.

No, like, it's the idea that, like, this show is so very aware that it has Alan Tudick at its disposal, and he is down for pretty much anything. They're working that man's pipes to the bone. I hope he got some tea, a lozange, you know, after every recording, because he's like that gentleman. Jimmy Butler meme of like him just on the... Carrying that ship on his back.

Yeah, like put the team on his back, though. Yeah, he was great. All right. We're going to go quickly because I know we're running short on time. Most surprising character cameo. Deep Bench for the Rokes Gallery, as we know. We might have mentioned one or two of our favorites, but what was your absolute favorite from this season?

Dude, bringing Matt Ryan back as Constantine for a three-minute bit. My... Dude! I mean, that's the guy. That's the guy who plays Constantine. Every time you see Constantine, it's Matt Ryan. So when I see Gastine, I'm like, oh, cool. It's the consensus.

He's going to be in this episode. It's going to be crazy. Oh, it's the, oh, they left. He's gone. That's fine. I just love the broad spectrum consensus of like, we don't get anybody to play Constantine, but Matt Ryan. Like, there's not even another option.

That's great. I love that, like, that keeps showing up. Also, in a mal twist, I got to, you got to have Billy Bob Thornton and James gun going there playing themselves. So smart that they only use Billy Bob Thornton for one episode because they could have just as easily had him for a little bit more. But no, just use him for one thing.

Mine was Sam Richardson, his swamp thing. I love Sam Richardson. I'm one of the top five fans of that guy. He's great. Do you watch Detroiters? I watch Detroiters. I watched the after party. I watch all that shit. It's so good.

I think you should leave. I think you should all watch that. Real talk. For sure. But also knowing that like, I have a weird affinity for Swamp thing because I think he's like kind of so cool. I think he's like the beast from beauty and the beast of the DC universe. He's one of the best. Great like sort of like psychological turn that he's had where he's like kind of like aerodyte and like smart and refined a bit. Like that's

super super cool. Living. Great to see him. All right. Final award. Character we need to see way more of next season. We couldn't do just two of these but we had to have a couple of them in there. Jomi kicks off. I mean, you already know. where I'm going to go with this one. We need more bang. He was clearly the standout side character for all, like, best jokes of the show. Every time he shows up, I laugh.

He needed a carbolobe for the fuck fest. He needed his pasta maker back. Like, incredible. Listen, if we don't get more bane in season four, then the streets will run red with Razzie Zazzy. Yes. Dr. Psycho. I genuinely miss.

him. I genuinely... Dude, when he shows back up, I'm like, fuck yeah. I was like, hey, man. Like, again, great season. But I was like, I kind of missed this little rascal, man. Like that. Yeah.

I miss his terrible human being. It was just like, you know, like, oh, man, I forgot what it was like to have this terrible human being in this group. I missed it. I missed it. The camaraderie, you know, bring him back. Bring him back. Magnificent.

And for a final quick honorable mention. because I do miss my guy too. Kite man. Hell yeah! I mean, here's the thing. If he's fine, if he's truly fine, I want him to ride off into the sunset. I mean, he's true.

I want him to gently glide off into the sunset. Here's the thing, like, I don't need, like, any more, like, relationship drama between him and Ivy, like, that's cool. But I would love to see him, like, they're on a job, whatever, and he shows up, he's like, oh, Ivy, what's going on? What's up? Yeah, me and going on, glider?

Yeah, we went to Paris last week. You want to hear about that. Honestly, that's really all that I need. I want him to be like Tinkerbell when it's like the Star Wipe at the end of the episode. And he just goes, ding. Like, that's what I want Kite Man to be. And he's like, and that's the end of that chapter. Hell yeah.

As long as I get a hell yeah after every and every episode, I'm good. No, it's great. He's fantastic. All right. That'll do it for our season's awards. A fantastic season of TV. We absolutely loved Harley Quinn. And now it's time to bring in our special guests, showrunners.

Justin Halpern, Patrick Shoemaker, and Sarah Peters. Let's take a listen. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimfaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper time. training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to

severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiara.com. All right, we are honored and honestly, truly blessed to be joined by the people in charge of Harley Quinn.

Steve, I'm honestly, this is, I've never been more starstruck in my entire life. We are joined by Justin Halpern, Patrick Schumacher, and Sarah Peters. what's going on, guys? What's happening? None of us are fired. We all have our jobs. It's good. It's a wonderful relief that everybody,

we all have jobs as a well-employed pod and a well-employed Zoom that we have here. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for joining us. Let's talk about this excellent season three finale. You just put Bruce Wayne away for tax evasion and the bat family has a new member. tell us what like inspired you guys to sort of like end this chapter of season three to kind of put Harley in the driver's seat to be a hero and Ivy a little bit on the back burner like is there going to be some tension that we're looking to see in season four yeah I mean well first we have a sign in the riders room like the Ted Lassell believe sign and says every billionaire should be in jail we tap it before we walk into the riders room that's why we ended Bruce Wayne in jail

No, I mean, I think, you know, for us, we wanted to, we always try to end every season with kind of like a question posed for the next season and something to kind of, and Sarah believes in this as well. Like, we're never going to break up Harley and Ivy, but that doesn't mean we don't want to like push the limits of their relationship. And as they grow as people challenge them, you know, well, they're fictional characters. but as they grow as fictional characters, challenge them to have to continue growing, otherwise things start to fall apart. And I was curious about that. You guys have been on record as saying

that Harley and Ivy are not going to break up and that they are going to be staying together for at least indefinitely through the rest of the show. I'm curious as to how far you thought you could test that relationship. Was there ever a time that you thought maybe we can put them on the rocks? Like kind of a friend situation? they were on a break.

Like, was there ever something that you ever wanted to put that relationship in even slight jeopardy to kind of see where you wanted to play with? Man, I mean, if the show goes on, if the show becomes,

as we've planned for it to become the Simpsons of the DC universe, maybe like season 30. But I kind of feel like, you know, when we set out in season one, we were like, no, this is, you know, Harley's breaking off from the Joker,

so it's a breakup. up story. We don't want her to focus on her love life at all until season two, at which point it's going to be Ivy. So, you know, obviously season one, we had Ivy and Kightman, and that was sort of a romantic angle. We all know, you know, where that went. But now I think, look, I think that they are more interesting together than a part. I think everyone knows in their hearts of hearts that, you know, when this show does eventually come to an end, hopefully like around 2067. Yeah, yeah.

I like the way you think. Yeah, that, you know, they're going to be together. They're going to be, like, buried together or cremated together and their ashes interminkled, at least in our hearts. So, yeah, I don't know. Well, also I think, like, Sarah can speak to this, is in the premiere this year that we wrote. Remember, Sarah?

We were, like, talking about, I remember, we had been pitching, Pat and I had been sort of pitching, like, immediately there's this tension, and Sarah was like, let's just have them have, like, we've put these fans through two years of, like, well, they won't they. Let's just, let's just have them have some fun, right? Sarah, I mean, that was kind of like your... Yeah, well, you know, I wanted half of season three to be them, like, on the run having fun, but it got truncated into one episode, which I'm fine with. But I think, like, yeah, It's like I don't think the stakes of the story are ever going to be Harley and Ivy's relationship. I just think they've been through so much and like the way that we sort of plotted that out through season two.

By the time they got together, so much had been like figured out already and there'd been so much kind of trial and tribulation that, yeah, I wanted them to relax a little bit at the top of season three. And then I think, like, moving forward, we're definitely going to see a lot of challenges in their relationship. But it's, at least on my watch as well, never going to be like, you know, is it over? Yeah. Sarah, you mentioned stakes in one of the real episodes in this season is Batman Begins Forever. And it's where, you know, Harley becomes, basically becomes Bruce's therapist. And, you know, she finds out he's Batman. and we see Bruce in a way,

like I don't think we've ever seen him before. For you, like, what are the things about certain characters that you feel like you have to get right? And at the same time, with how zany, how fun this show is, what are some things that you feel like you can twist and play with within that playground? I think, like, ultimately something that's so fun about this show is, like, the tone is really complex

and you're dealing with, you know, these characters that have so much history and everything behind them. But when we can apply like a modern attitude to those kind of situations, I think it's at once feels like very fresh, but also is kind of the secret thing that grounds everything as well. So that's something that's really appealing to be about the show. And I think something that I love like locking into as well. there's so much

like you guys go so deep in the bag with the characters and the content too the CGI mustache said on me James Gunn do you guys get any pushback from the up

from the higher up like hey I don't know about this one boss or do you all you all just let it fly I mean CGI mustache absolutely no pushback whatsoever they thought that was really funny yeah I mean

there have been times where we have expected to get pushed back on certain things and and DC has embraced them. I mean, I remember back in like season two when we had the sort of Batman standalone episode and we opened the show with the weird kind of like meta guys on the couch and one of them's wearing a, you know, Last Jedi isn't canon shirt and then released the Snyder cut. I got a DM from a television critic who was like under no circumstance, who had seen it, a little sneak preview, they'd send the episodes out a week prior to their air. And that person said to me, uh, I am just advising you. This is from the bottom of my heart. I love the show, but under no circumstances should you release this episode with those

bumpers. Because if you are going to be biting the hand that feeds you, you were going to be upsetting so many people to the point where I started spiral and it was like Friday at nine. Yeah. We had like, wow, emailing people like, are we doing the wrong thing? This is one, you know, one detractor. And then they ran it kind of up the chain of command. And then Jim Lee at DC was like, now it's funny. Sometimes it's that simple. So was that like a bit of like an awakening moment where they're like,

okay, we can really like play with whatever we want and we're not really going to be hindered by any sort of like, no bad ideas, nothing's going to really stop us? or are you still kind of being like, okay, like, let's see how far we can take this? Well, I think that we sort of, if you think about our show is like, you know, when there's like a really large family

and there's a bunch of people in that family that are fucking crazy. There's like this secret quiet kid that nobody pays attention to who's actually the craziest. And I feel like that's what, because we're sort of like, not on that level of these like giant movies

that they put a fucking billion dollars into or whatever that were kind of, like, sometimes I feel like, oh, wait, they had an orgy. Like, they know that like three weeks later. I was already there. Or Mike Carlin, who's our executive over at DC, didn't tell me what he's. He's like, oh, man, every time I get a new script from you guys, I have a little heart attack. We have some really funny standards and practices notes from the season.

Well, also, like, the first two seasons of the show, they were on DC Universe, which, you know, was a very niche kind of streaming service. And they didn't have the infrastructures that, you know, these lots of, large, you know, streaming services have now where you have like a broadcast standards and practices and like, you know, legal, like, it's like Joseph was saying. It gets kind of, you get to fly under the radar or we got to in the first couple of seasons. And now we're at HBO Max, but the show is working for them. And so they're kind of like, yeah, keep pushing the boundaries. I mean, they definitely like in season three, we're like, go harder, go harder. So, you know, Mike's heart palpitations

we're getting louder. But yeah, they've given us a lot of room. I'm sure whenever S&P gets the script, they're like, all right, clear out the day, man. We got to put this time in. The most frustrating thing, I think Sarah could speak to this as well, like, is, you know, the notes that we get from legal internally from like the studio that are like, if you're going to bring up that brand, you have to provide some sort of commentary on it. And whether that's like positive or negative, you have to, you know, if you're

talking about Coca-Cola, you have to either say Coca-Cola is great or Coca-Cola's shit. The best one we got was we got a standard note, the note said, can you clarify this use of butt-fucking? It's pretty clear. One of the clearest birds in my history. If you have to ask, there's a butt, it's getting fat. Well, yeah, sometimes it's just that simple.

Just that's that easy. Yeah, sometimes it's that simple. Well, I wanted to ask about, you mentioned working with HBO Max and now that you're back on that network. You've recently been renewed for season four. Congratulations. And I wanted to kind of see like breakdown. Sarah or anybody, what is getting that call like?

Is everybody huddled around in a room just kind of waiting on the news from the governor? Or is it kind of like, do we get one email or is it just going to be found out in a press release on Twitter like, you know, some other more unfortunate shows that might have. have had different fates. It's always, it's never like, this is the thing, rarely in this business ever, are you getting a call where it's like, guys get together because it's happening. It's always like, we're hearing rumors, but it's, we're not sure because nobody ever wants to actually write a check. So it's like, I feel like, I never get like all the information at once.

Yeah. It's like a very slow yes. Yeah. It's interesting. How slow is that? Yes, is it like, well, maybe we'll see, like, down the line, maybe talk to us next month kind of a thing? Yeah, some season three pickup was literally like months.

Yeah. It was like, it was literally like, yeah, each week new information would trickle out about our possible pickup from them. That was particularly long season, the season three pickup because we were migrating over to HBO Max. So that was like switching networks timeline, which is crazy long. Season four took long because everything, Justin just said. And then also, you know, something that we've, we've all, Sarah and Justin myself,

like we've been, we've been dealing with for a while now is that, you know, we're all Writers Guild members, but the show is not Writers Guild. Riders Guild signatory. And, you know, we've been fighting to get the show to become Writers Guild, and it's just been kind of an uphill battle. And studios are really reluctant to do that. So we've been trying to sort of negotiate kind of a la carte improvements for the writers that have been working on the show for like three seasons that are still not getting things

like script fees, you know, that sort of thing. So, you know, we were able to negotiate. Residuals? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, residuals are still not a thing, but like they are and, you know, we work on Abbott Elementary and, you know, writers get residuals and all that sort of thing.

And so there were sort of perks and amenities whatever that we were able to negotiate. like the writers now get script fees on Harley Quinn starting with season four. Wonderful. So that sort of thing takes a while. Yeah. That's absolutely wonderful. So I, and I want to give the, give you guys an opportunity to really gas up Sarah because you guys are exiting as showrunners and Sarah is now in the big chair. Tell us a little bit about the hands that we're going to be ushered in with with for season four. Sarah, like what are your big ideas? You got you've got you got the mic now. Hold on Sarah, let me answer this. No, okay, you'll answer it. Here, speak for me, please, men.

Oh, no, I'm going into labor. I'm going to labor. No, I think like, you know, I've been on the show since season two, and there's so much that I like about it, but I think like I'm going to be pushing a little bit, just a little bit more diversity of, characters and people behind the scenes

and my feminist agenda for sure so I think like No, not now. This late in the game? Oh, come on. Exactly. With season three,

we got to, like I said, earlier really dive in on like Harley and Ivy's dynamic together and we had that nice sort of like honeymoon phase and stuff and I think season four is going to be building out their worlds a little bit individually and giving them new challenges now that they are this kind of like established power couple and what that might mean if they, you know, are sort of like one is more aligned with like good and the other evil and

how are they going to navigate that within their relationship. So that was super interesting to me, like the way that season three ended. Like, it sort of set them on these kind of different paths, but, like, we know they're going to be together. So what does that look like? And I think also just, like, Sarah wouldn't sell herself like this, but, you know, she helped shape the voice of Harley and Ivy. Like, really, when Sarah came on the show, I feel like those two characters' dialogue

just jumped at level. Like, she's one of the best dialogue writers on the planet. And I see, you know, like, it's just, for us, it's like the show kind of lives in the banter, you know, between these characters. Like, we always pitched it as like, this is the show about all the shit that happens in between the battles, like, when, you know, Joker's got to go to a jiffy loop to get us. Like, that's where the show lives. And Sarah just, like, I think understands that so fundamentally and, like, is such a unbelievable dialogue writer that it just became kind of like, You know, in the hands of, if we put this show in the hands of Sarah, it's going to sound so good. And that's such, like, core of the show.

Yeah, that's awesome. So with Sarah, you know, taking on from season four forward, that means Justin and Patrick, you guys won't be on. What do you guys, what do you guys be doing? We're going to count money for a while, I think. That's fair. That's fair. No, we are running Abbott Elementary right now with Quinta Brunson. So we have executive produced that and sort of have been with that since the beginning.

And they're still involved in Harley. Oh, yeah. Yes. We are, we are sort of, we see everything that Sarah writes. We oversee it. We have conversations with her. We're constantly, like, involved and still producing Harley. But, yeah, Abbott has been kind of like, and also I think Pat may disagree with this.

But, like, I feel like it's sort of like, you know how, like, a coach coaches the team? And then after a few years, the team's like, I can't fucking hear that coach's voice anymore. I felt like creatively, like the three, you know, after three years just me personally, I was like really tired. We had been making that show for five years. And I was exhausted. And I just felt like for me, just personally and Pat may feel different. but I was like, I want somebody who's going to have a really, like, fresh voice coming in and taking, passing the baton to. Yeah, I agree that it was time for you to step down.

See, thank you. There it is. Well, somebody that I would definitely like to see Step Up in season four is probably our favorite character that we would agree. It's Bain. Neymour Bain. So when can we expect our spinoff, Sarah? what's going to be the sort of main driving force for Bain's pasta vlog? What's going to be, like, what is he really going to be thinking about in season four?

I really do just want to... Oh, season four, you mean season one of Baines' spinoff, yes. Oh, my gosh. I don't know what I'm allowed to say, but I think you've hit on some themes just now in your question that we'll definitely be exploring in season four. have, Bain has a little episode of his own. Wonderful. And more to a point, like, there's such a big breath of, like, not only rogues galleries, but like amazing side characters from the DC bench that you guys can pull from. Like, I was genuinely shocked when I got to see Swamp Thing.

I was, like, enthralled that all of these characters have come back. What makes you guys want to, like, kind of pull from that bench and have, fun with them and how is it able to like find a balance between like you know the like complexities about how uh selina doesn't really need bruce wayne and still being too cool for them while you also have a great power couple in uh clock king clock king and ridler and riddle oh my gosh i feel like pat this is your terrible oh my god that's a tough question there's a lot of facets to it i mean just in general like uh even though the show is called Harley Quinn,

I feel like it's really a giant ensemble and it's fair game for us to bring in any and everyone. Of course, like, D.C. has to approve it. But, you know, we've always had, like, a large sandbox. Like, every year I'm like, ah, you know what? I think next season we really have to, like, focus in on, like, Gotham. And, like, you know, we did, like, the sort of, like, epic thing.

You know, they go to apocalypse. uh in in season two so maybe this should like season three should be like street level and then we're like no now they're paying it bigger and bigger and bigger i mean i i don't know it's for me it's like just a testament to the you know the the rich canon and mythology of of the dc universe you know there's you know 80 plus years of batman alone and and his you know lore and the mythology of gotham to work with and then you know you start to expand elsewhere it's just like there have been so many times that like Justin and I like wanted to create new characters and then we're like, you know, why? Like they exist and we get to make them our own, you know, within this universe. So

and then with like Clock King and Ridler, we were just like, well, you know, I think it was Jameson Borac who was like one of the writers on season, well, he's been with the show from the beginning, who was just like, they should be a couple. And like Clock King could have that big dumb clock face and yeah that was James Adomian voicing him Clock King with Jim Rash's Ridler and it was yeah you get to do such like in the Clocking episode he's when they don't win for best couple Clock King and Ridler and Clocking's like it's because of my stupid

clocking it's like that's the part that always makes me laugh with these like deep bench players is they're so fucking ridiculous and it was clearly like some guy in the 50s being like ah this guy's got a fucking clockbrook for his face yeah yeah you know and and then you get to actually put that into action and it's like, oh, right, like, this is like, what would a guy like clock king?

You feel a little self-conscious about it, I think. No, I mean, and it speaks to the talent, you know, behind the scenes and how well you guys operate because there wasn't a ton of of Kite Man this season. And, you know, for good reason, you know, but at the same

time, I was like, I miss that guy, man. Hell yeah. You know? He's getting his own spinoff, so. Again, like, wouldn't be mad about it if him and Bain were just trying to figure out best practices for cooking for their significant others. Yeah, man, listen.

Maine is a series regular in the Kiteman spin-off, I promise. Okay, wonderful. Love that. Love that. Well, that's it from us. Thank you so much, Justin, Patrick, Sarah. We cannot wait to see

season four when it drops in 2027. We're just... We can't speak to when it's going to drop, but it's sooner than you think. Awesome. We appreciate that. It was wonderful to have you. Congratulations again,

and we can't wait to talk to you guys again soon. No, thanks for us. Yeah, thanks for having us. We're really excited about it. Thank you. Thank you so much again to Justin Halpern, Patrick Shoemaker, and Sarah Peters' absolute joy talking to them, Joe. It's awesome.

We want them back any and every time. Let's have them talk about Star Wars. I don't care. But no, they were an absolute joy. We can't thank them enough. But that is a wrap for us. Thank you so much for listening. Quick program reminders again tomorrow.

Talk the Thrones is back right after the episode of House of the Dragon. Join CR, join Mao, join Joe, once again for their instant reactions on that. And Tuesday, the deep dives resume with House of R and all of that great, great. Deep dive goodness. And Wednesday, the Midnight Boys are back to give you their season. premiere instant reactions to Andor Jomi strap in. I'm ready for that gash, boy. Let's get it.

Gast. That gas. All right. We want to thank our amazing producer. The man on the ones, the twos, really the threes and fours. John Spidey Kerm, the greatest, the best, with additional production from our good friend, you love him. Good to everybody else here, Arjuna Ramco Pal.

Thank you, Junior Mints. Once again, we love you so very much for rocking with us. We missed you, really. Like, I've been away for a minute and getting back on Mike and doing this interview with you, Jome, and working with Kerm, it's been great. I've really, like, needed this. And this feels really, really good to be back here. Good to have you back, buddy. Good to be with all of you guys.

It really, really means a lot. And we're going to be back talking about Harley Quinn soon whenever that comes back in 2057. And we're going to be back once again soon talking about She-Hulk and maybe a couple of other things down the road. But until then, Jomey, why don't you give us some parting words? Again, one of the biggest thanks to Sarah, Justin, and Patrick

for joining us. Had such a fun time. Had such a fun. I've learned a lot. Thank you all for listening. We love you. Shout out to our amazing producer, the mayor of Kermann Oaks. Jonathan Kerman.

Oh, that's great. We're going to make city puns for his name now. And we love you all. And just a quick shout out to our guy and Jonathan Chargerbro. We love you, man. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people.

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