The Ringer-Verse - ‘Harley Quinn’ Season 4 Check-in | Mint Edition

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

Steve, Jess, and Jomi are back to give their midseason thoughts on Season 4 of ‘Harley Quinn.’ The crew talks about the strengths and weaknesses of the latest season, discusses Harley’s incorporation into the Bat Family, and ranks the show among DC’s animation catalog. Hosts: Steve Ahlman, Jessica Clemons, and Jomi Adeniran Producers: Jonathan Kermah and Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it's your boy Johnny Bananas, and I'm going to be covering a brand new season of the Challenge USA on CBS that, of course, I will be completely dominating on my podcast, death taxes and bananas on the Ringer reality TV podcast. Head over that feed and follow us on Spotify, so you never miss an episode. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks,

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today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiator.com. Transport your senses with Sol de Janato's limited edition perfume mist collection at Zfor. Sprits on lush notes of rainforest orchid and crisp sea breeze with he fresco paraizzo. Embrace a floral and fruity scent inspired by Rio's nude beach with chiqui bikini or capture sun-kissed bliss with limonada gelada, where zesty Brazilian lemonade accord meets coconut milk and golden brown sugar. Don't miss Sol de Janeiro's limited edition perfume mist collection only at Sephora. Hello! And welcome into the Ringervors!

The Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things fans. Welcome back, the once-in-a-while podcast about fandom that you just can't live without. Mint Edition is back, baby. I'm Steve Allman. And joining me are my co-hosts. Both of them wish a bitch would try. It's Jessica Clemens and Jomi Adoneron. How are we doing, everybody?

Doing great, guys. I'm sorry, I've got to interrupt the podcast real quick. I've got to make a quick phone call. Hey, Siri, call, soulmate, peach, emoji, sweat, droplets, emoji, devil horn, smile, please. Thank you. Appreciate it. Wait, why is my phone ringing? Oh, no.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my goodness. Jess, how are you? I'm very good. I wish a bitch would. I wish a bitch would try. We always wish we always wish a bitch would try here on the ring reverse.

I always wish a bitch would try. Yes, we do. Well, we're very excited to join you once again. We've had a lot of great activity on the feed. We've had a great discussion about Baldur's Gates. And video game adaptations from one Ben Lindbergh and Jessica Clemens that happened last week. That was a big, big to do. How have you been enjoying Baldersgate 3 now that you will not stop playing?

I'm running on 24 hours now of playtime on it, and I am obsessed with it. Arjuna knows everything of what I'm doing, and I can't spoil my schemes, my plans. Wonderful. I'm trying to fall in love. You're trying to fall in love with everybody? I can't wait to talk about it. I can't wait to talk about it because it's a story and I have. Wonderful.

All right, well, before we get into today's show, some quick programming reminders. As always, Wednesday, the House of R will be giving you their definitive Osoka Watch list ahead of the new Disney Plus series that we are highly excited for. Get ready for some new additional content for that. Friday, a very special House of Midnight will be giving you their reactions to Blue Beetle. Are we excited for Blue Beetle? Yes.

Yes, we are. Sure. Hope Springs Eternal. Yeah, why not? Yeah, why not? Why not? And today, we take a look at the mid-season check-in of one of our favorite shows

of all Mint Edition history. It's Harley Quinn, Season 4's mid-season check-in. Let's get into it. Yeah. Now, it's well-documented that Jomi and I have been long-standing fans of the DC animated adult comedy, Harley Quinn, starring Kaylee Quico,

and many, many other great voices that we love. But since our new co-host, Jessica Clemens, has gotten here, we haven't gotten her opinions on wax about this beloved show. Jess, what do you think about Harley Quinn? I love the first and second season a lot. The third season kind of slipped for me, and then this season kind of is like,

eh, it's really funny. But I remember getting really into it because I watch anything that Lake Bell does because Lake Bell's amazing, and she's playing my favorite DC character. I love Poison Ivy. I think Poison Ivy is a great character, and I love Harley.

and I just want them to do everything bad in the world. So I'm anticipating that. But I am a huge fan of the series. Harley and Ivy have become pretty much the iconic power couple in all of comics now because of this show and a couple of other great comics stories. What do you think is like the show doing at its best? What did you like about those first two seasons? Oh, God.

It was so long ago the first season. I think what got me the first season was I'm, I was like, whoa, the show's a lot funnier than I expected. And also, I think people really did want a different tale from Harley Quinn that wasn't attached to the Joker. And we also want a poison ivy that's not so hard, heavily, like, a terrorist. I mean, she's still kind of, she is an ego terrorist. But in the way of, like, she's not, this is the way that she's, like, furthering plants.

She's like, I love plants. And I was trying to remember when it, a horticulture. She's, like, into horticulture, whereas, like, normally she's like, I don't really give a fuck. Like I'm just going to destroy every living thing, including these plants. And so I was just like, oh, this is nice to see like an actual poison ivy that is really smart and a really good scientist and just planning that versus just being a sex symbol. And so I think when I saw the first season, I was like, I really love this take. I am obsessed with this. And then when they started dating, I was like, yes, give me more gay content. And I was so supportive. And I think

that's just what it was. It was just different than all the other animated superhero shows we have. And it was just so good, so well-balanced. So gay, so funny. So great for the DC. I completely agree. Jomey, uh, in the past few seasons of Harley Quinn leading up to this one, what have you hoped that the new season is going to bring? Because we've been fans of this show pretty much, we've been singing the gospel of the show, like more or less since we started seeing it. For a long time. Long, long time. So what have we coming into season four? with. You know, we, uh, do we end season three and Harley is like, I want to be a good, good guy, you know, and she wants to, you know, join the bad family and rock that. And I think

what we were left with was, all right, very clearly, Poison Ivy is like, I want to dominate this able space and Harley's moving to this good space. So how do they coexist within their very strong, very, you know, different, but very happy relationship? How does that, now balance with one of them being on the side of good and the other one inside of evil. I was very interested to see what that looked like in the season. And I think so far it's been, you know, I think it's been fine for me. I think you guys are a little more mixed on it. But I think like that thread is honestly worth exploring.

And I can't wait to see what the next five episodes have in store for that. Well, I'll kick off my initial impressions of this new season in saying that to me, the biggest strength of the show in general was its writing and its really good characterizations of known Batman characters and turning them on their head and kind of

having both profoundly like funny and insightful things to say about them at the same time. Season one captured that beautifully. Season two captured that beautifully. Season three I think got a bit more personal and higher stakes and I think

in the middle of this season, now, I think I'm kind of seeing the world that Harley Quinn, the show has built for itself, and it's kind of folding in on itself in a way that might be a tad skewing more towards Harley's perspective rather than taking the perspective of what we know the Batman universe to be and having more fun with it. I think the show is at its best when Harley is with that found family that we had in those first two seasons. Clayface, King Shark, Ivy as well. Now everybody's kind of like more or less cast to the wind doing their own thing.

And while it's still fun and funny and engaging, I really think that we're missing a bit more of that intimacy about our five main characters or like major like plot points that we can like really glom on to. Jomey, what do you think? I wanted to say intimacy, man. I just miss King Shark and Clayface being funny, man. That's what I said. That's not what it is.

There's way too little of them in this season. Well, it's hard when you're like giving, you're trying to give each of them their own story. And eventually it kind of has to branch off when you give them such major storylines like King Shark having a baby and having nine babies and just wanting to be a dad and stuff. And like, because there were certain episodes where I remember King Shark being like, yeah, I'm just not going to go on this mission.

And I was like, well, wait a minute. Yeah. For not even like story-wise, I was like, you're my favorite character. I want you in this episode. And he was just like, no, I don't feel like it. And the same at Clayface. Clayface was like, no, I'd rather just go act. And I was like, oh, so the team is breaking apart, but I don't think, I don't know.

I wanted it, I don't know, not a better breakup, but like. I understand. Like, I mean, the name of the game is that, like, you take, you know, Clayface and King Shark. And we haven't seen Dr. Psycho in 300 million years. which I genuinely miss him. But it makes sense. Even that storyline, like, I understand what he got kicked off him,

but he's such a great piece of shit. You know what I'm saying? But, like, we haven't seen those characters, we're not seeing those characters as much in this fourth season, and they've been replaced by, you know, Batgirl and Nightwing and Robin, which not the same. You know what I'm saying?

Do you think it's because, not, I don't think that, okay, this is just me being, like, Speculate. Drama, speculate. Do you think it's because Kaylee Kukuro's sister is bad girl? I mean. And she's the E.P. I don't get into the politicking of how the show would work.

I would, I don't think so if I had to like put on my speculation cap. This is only, this is just drama tea. This is not me being like. Yeah, I think that's, you know, it's probably how she got the role. But I don't think she was like, right, my sister's in the show. Now we got to make a whole season with her like that. I don't think, you know, I was thinking, I was like, with the bat family, I was like, wow, Barb is really playing, like, front center main character,

and I'm not getting enough from her or Nightwing or Robin. I mean, it makes sense story-wise because she was the first person that Harley interacted with and was like, oh. Yeah, that was a good carryover for season three. Yeah. Because Backgirl really, like, kind of brought Harley into the fold about doing things her own way and knowing that, like, there's a bit more of, like, conscious behind Harley that she can tap into more.

And I think that the family aspect now is kind of being replaced by the bat family, at least on Harley's side, because the incorporation of Nightwing, Damien, and Batgirl, that's kind of the new team that Harley has to bounce off with. And I kind of liked them a bit more when they were occasional parries of themselves in earlier seasons, when there was just like a spice of the Bat family just to kind of just take the piss out of and then go away, Because do we remember in season three where there was that whole moment of Nightwing on the bus, like, going back to Gotham City?

And, like, it's this gritty return to the town. And then, like, he's just getting off of the bus. And everything's in chaos. And then we just resume with Harley and Ivy. I liked that kind of flavor. But when we're stuck with the Bat family for prolonged periods of time, we have long scenes of him at, of Harley interacting with Alfred, which is fun. And Nightwing, there's a lot of jokes about his ass. which I always love.

There's always great fun to be had there. But I feel like the beauty of those first two seasons were really the outcasts and, like, below the line D-tier villains that Harley Quinn were interacting with to kind of, like, give them a bit more space and characterizations, whereas we've always had a lot of fun with all of these other bat characters. And Harley's just kind of in the mix with them in a less interesting. interesting or dynamic way.

What do you think? It feels like, oh, kind of along with that. It feels like, because when I was watching, I was like, oh, they're connecting this. Like, her suit is like an injustice too. We see the star people from Suicide Squad too. And then, like, the Bat family is a really big comic book series. And I was like, oh, they're getting closer to the D.C. than they did in the first and second season. And when I say getting closer, I mean, like, yeah, they can bring out some D-tier villains that are a part of Gotham.

and it's like okay, but I'm like, oh, a lot of these stuff is like very following what has already been produced by DC. It is possible, but like the idea of like knowing that Joker has like a main plotline being the mayor and that will tie into how Ivy wants to work her way through the Legion of Doom, I think that while those are interesting things, I think the world that Harley Quinn builds for itself, it's kind of separating all of the characters that we care about in different ways, which again makes sense for the progression of a show and a sitcom and all of these things, but knowing that all of these iconic characters are kind of in all of these big, weird,

different aspects of what they usually do, like Scarecrow's dead, Dr. Freeze is dead, like all of the, Batman's in jail, seemingly for what could be for most of the season, We haven't seen the likes of Jim Gordon or anybody like that. It's very odd to have all of these, like, pretty good jokes and, like, kinetic energy that the show has carried over from seasons one, two, and three. But it doesn't really quite know where to put it. I don't, well, I kind of feel like the Harley and Ivy stuff still works. Their jokes, their banter, like that relationship still hits and still goes. And honestly, like, I mean.

The Bain stuff is always funny. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Not the pasta maker. That joke is... We can retire the pasta maker jokes. That pasta maker joke is still sorry. He went to Italy. I thought it was a bit.

And then in, like, the fifth episode, he's literally like, like, Harley. I'm, thanks for calling. I'm in Italy right now. It's like, no, br, hangs up. Like, I mean, I guess I'm going to take that as far as they can go. But the same thing is, Stuff that made me laugh in the first three seasons.

Still makes me laugh in the four seasons. It's just less of it, which it was not ideal, but it still makes for a good show. There are some jokes this season that made me laugh, like, loudly. And I think it's because the writers are like, oh, we recognize what's going on outside. And that's the thing. I think that at its heart,

the bones of a very funny show is still very much here. Like, I think all of the comedy, for what it's worth, is hitting. and is very funny still. Like, any time that we, you know, again, make fun of Nightwing's ass or the idea that the incorporation of Talia Al-Gould, which we will talk about more, like, as being a terrible mother but a great businesswoman

and foil to Ivy this season is great. This isn't like a loss of talent, or this isn't a loss of, like, good people making the best show that they want to make. I just think that, like, the chess pieces on the board that we have them could be better arranged. I think that the characters in what they're doing and where they're being placed could be better arranged. I mean, like, I see the vision.

I just think, like, looking back at, you know, the series, you know, from beginning to not the end, but to where we're out right now. It kind of does make sense, like, because I was, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, you know, Ivy's never, I've felt like not somebody who would, like, do this. Like, you know, she's listened to the John. She's getting statues. and things like that, just being like very, not Ivy. But I think part of that is her relationship with Harley has opened her up so much, you know,

to being receptive to all this stuff, you know. Harley makes her feel like somebody important and somebody big. And so she's like, cool, she takes the Legion of Doom job, even though that's what Harley wanted at the beginning. Remember, the whole thing starts because Joker and Harley break up. And she's like, cool, I'm going to show you. I'm going to be real. I'm going to join the Legion Doom.

These are news like, you know, we're not taking. We don't really want you. But even like from like what the first couple episodes are like, Poison Ivy, anytime you want to come through, man, we got to see right here for you. You know what I'm saying? It's all you. You know what I mean? And so their relationship, like, again, is the through line of the series. And it carries even to this season.

I think it's very well done. I can't agree like it is kind of weird the dynamics a little bit, especially like they go to the, they're at the Tony show. And Tony's like in there. She's like, hey, you know, a bad girl's missing. Can you, can't really do that? You know, we're supposed to be on opposite sides. Right, right. You know what I'm saying?

So, like, I could kind of see what you think. But I think, like, them being where they are right now is something that's been, you know, curated through the show. Now, does it work? That's a question for, you know, it's a question of another time. But in terms of, does it make sense? I think it does narrative. It does technically make sense.

I just think that to see the show fire on. all cylinders in those early seasons and to a lesser degree season three, which I still greatly enjoyed. I just, I feel like there needs to be like a bit of a soft reset for both Harley and Ivy's either relationship or putting them back on the back foot because Ivy having their own, having her own struggles with how Harley conducts her life outside of, you know, work and how they kind of need to like separate their work life from their home life. I know that like there has been like longstanding like rumors and speculation that like the shows creators will never break up Harley and Ivy.

And I think that it might be time come the end of this season to actually do that because the like strayed relationship that they have with their work life is actually like kind of pulling them apart and it would make sense for them to find themselves on the outs. Jess, would you agree? Yeah. Yeah, maybe. That's it. That's it.

Yeah, either ending the season with them breaking up or, I mean, we're only halfway, so maybe it is like once Harley, they're separate. They moved out of each other's house, Salina's house. Which, like, we need to follow up on that. Honestly, genuinely, favorite part. Don't ever answer it. Just keep going back to Selena's house with our cats and Selena's not there. I think that is so funny to me. She's on like permanent sabbatical.

I love that. I love that. That was one of my favorite, like, bits. Because at one point in the season, I was like, wait, they're still at her house. Like, when she showed up, she, like, kicked everybody out, took a bath and then left again. But, no, I think, yeah, it's like the either end the season, either broken up or maybe in the halfway point, they just, like, truly separate for work. And they don't get time to see each other. And that's the kind of reset that they'll give.

The relationship between Harley and Ivy are, it's hard to explain. it's hard to get into because I support it completely. But then I'm also like, I need more than them, Harley doing too much, I be getting mad, I'd be fixing it, and then hurting Harley's feelings, and then they fight,

and then they rekindle. And if that keeps going to keep getting upset. Well, because that was the major pull from the will they, won't they, enemies, lovers type of thing that propelled season one and two. And to say nothing about the fact

that we, you know, put Kiteman on ice. He's in love. He's happy. Honestly, get out of here. I tell you, that's my one thing, bro. Where's Kite Man? No, he's in love for him. I know he's in love.

I know. And listen, he's doing better than anything that's going on in the show. He's better than the bullshit. Where is he? Growth. It's gross. He can't. He don't get a legion of doom.

Like, you can get like a guest membership or something. He doesn't need it. He doesn't need it, but he's also clearly not invited. He's not invited. Wasn't he invited to? What was it in the last? season that he was invited to. It was like the, it was the first episode of the third season. He was invited only because he dated Ivy and he still lost the award for being raised.

But he's fine. He is enough. Hell yeah. He is. Hell yeah. But it's to that like level of growth that I'd like to see Harley and Ivy's relationship change up a bit because it is that constant back and forth where it's, you know, they fight, they break up, they kiss they make up. Shout out Katie Perry. but it's the it's the word

No, no. Give me that. Continue, continue. I shall. I think that their relationship needs to be tested in that kind of way. And I think that

they actually really haven't had a real test of that until now and to kind of ignore that only to say like, well, we're back together again and nothing's going to break us apart. I think that's a little like,

I think the test was the ending of the third season of like Harley jumping in front of the zombie throwing us. True. But then I'm also, but that's, again, maybe it's pacing, maybe it's timing where I'm like, maybe they should have broke up at the end of third season.

Or that, that testament was like, okay, this is so big. Improv rules. You guys gotten so big, how do we break it down again? Yeah, how do we go back and come back? It's like, once you're in space, which they literally are. Yeah. It's like, how do you come down? Like, you guys have already reached so high that it's like, what's bigger than Harley

sacrificing like that and almost dying? Exactly. And I think that that's kind of, in a weird way, it's a bit of a microcosm of comic book storytelling in general because it quickly like balloons. The stakes get so high and so inflated that you kind of just lose the plot a little bit. And not to say that this show is wildly off base or wildly off the tracks here because like I think we're all agreeance here. Like we're still having a good time. No, it's fun. Yeah, I watch it. I'm having a fun. Yeah. But it like there's something that I think. the show can still do to really put it over the edge and still being one of the best things that DC has going for it. Because when the show is at its best, it is one of the best things that DC has going. I mean, hey, four seasons, a holiday spinoff is enough to be like, I'm like, you guys are doing great. Yeah, no, no. They recognize. They know they're doing good. They know they're doing good. Every time I see those credits roll and someone new has gone up to EP, I'm like,

they're doing great. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Look at them go. Shout out to those EP. those EPEs. Kaylee, hire me. I could be your sister. I could be your sister. I can play Barb. No, it's perfect.

It's a perfect show. I just want, I don't know. Maybe for me personally, I'm like, I need stakes. I need a steak steak. I could use some steak right now, man. I could use a steak for like a vampire. We'll be right back and get some stakes. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms,

every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravene infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur.

Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiara.com. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce. and some very tasty limited time flavors.

New Whole Foods, market peach, apricot, rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide

and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save. at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee,

it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. Well, speaking of stakes, let's talk about the stakes that the show is actually giving us and talk about the bad family. Holly's are the newest member of the bat family and the reluctant fourth party member now that Bruce Wayne is back in jail. You know, putting a billionaire behind bars can feel pretty good for a while, but knowing that his shitty kids will just be picking up the pieces are pretty good. So we are also introduced to Talia Al-Gul, who's an absolute question.

Love her. What do we think about the added time that we get with the Bat family and the introduction of Talia Al-Gul? I think Talia is the good, like, kind of coming. I don't think she's going to ever fall in love with Harley or Ivy. I don't think that's going to happen at all. But I love that dynamic between her and the two of them. I love that dynamic between her and Ivy, especially when it's like, we're friends, but we're still also enemies. We're still, we're working together to make this better because these men are really fucking it up.

Like, we're going to be real villains. And, like, I'm so glad at where you're going. But I love how they're both piecing each up, teeing each other up for, like, I'm going to come for you. I'm going to come for you. I think she's such a great addition, especially because she's just shaking up every person that's main in the story. Taking away their weapons, making them actually fight. That's a little hurdle that I'm like, yes, this is great. I love these little hurdles.

I'm just like, they can't fight. They cannot fight without their weapons. And Harley has to teach them. It's so good. I love her. I think Talia Gould is a great addition to the show. I think you kind of mention this, Jess, but her getting in the middle of Ivy and Harley, not romantically, but in a way that, you know, poison Ivy is like, look, the ideas I'm getting from our back and forth, me and Talia, we got something going. You know, she inspires me.

She makes me want to be better. Hardy's like, yo, that's what I used to do. What the hell? Who is this person coming in and like not replacing you, you know, like romantically, but replacing you? almost like emotionally, you know what I'm saying? It's not something poison I was doing on purpose, but Harley might feel some type of way and that like drives a wedge between them.

Or I might turn her on because she's always like, oh my God, you're planning by yourself. You're like delegating task. She's like, that episode, she was like, what are you wearing? Wait, no, not yet. I need to figure out what I'm doing. Maybe he'll turn her on.

That was a good episode with Alfred going to prison and Harley and him becoming friends because I was like, okay, well, Ivy had, As Talia right now, Harley has Alfred, and she's learning actual good things. But, God, that Talia edition, such a good grab. I truly think that she's probably the best new character of the season and probably the best edition of the show in quite a long while. Because not only is she a great, like, emotional foil to both Harley and Ivy,

but it's weirdly like a great characterization of who we know Talia Al-Wool to be because she's kind of just been hindered by her father to not take control. Like she's wanted to for so many years and now that she is in control, she's like moving and shaking and manipulating and moving things in a way that are daunting and like very, very impressive for both the Bat family

and our villains. It's really like the shakeup that the show needed for a while. And while the new friendship that's kindled between Alfred and Harley is also, like, I think genuinely sweet and cool. I think Talia's edition is, like, absolutely perfect. But getting into, like, what Alfred brings to the table, I'm curious to what you might think, like,

the sort of, like, North Star for Harley is this season, because she always seems to be kind of, like, emotionally lost in, like, what either lesson about herself or her love life is to be learned, and Alfred really seems to be the person that's actually like figuring it out with her. Does that make sense? Like, what do you think might come of that friendship come the end of this season? I hope she'll leave the version of herself that's in the mirror. That's the psychiatrist and turn to Alfred.

I think that's slowly, I think that's like, it's so subtle, but I think it's a situation that might happen by the end of the season. With her helping Batman as a therapist, she's like, oh, I'm still Harley the therapist. I got to help me. Yeah. And then she'll stop talking to her side. her psychiatrist's self in the mirror. And I think that will be her north star

of being like, oh, I found myself within myself. And Alfred helped me along the way, but me also helping the bat family along the way. So maybe that is like her end goal for this season is becoming a better version of herself. Less dependent. Less dependent. Less dependent. Less anxious attachment stuff. We all hope to be secure attachment.

The thing is she can read everybody but herself, which is like what we've been seeing. Oh, God. Aren't we all? Shut up. No. I'm talking to literally. everyone in this room.

I can tell myself to be a better person. I am a better person. I think the interesting thing about this last five episodes was we see that Harley is struggling to maintain her goodness. Like, she's sleepwalking and doing bad stuff. Which is very funny. I like that. Like, she's breaking air fires.

She's sleeping for eight hours. And then Nyeyeye shows up dead. And we're left to think, uh-oh, what's going on, Bao? Like, what are you doing? You know? And I think that struggle is going to be. like where we end up at the end of the season. Like, hey, you got to figure it out, pal.

Yeah, that's what Barb's roommate said. Yeah, exactly. She was like, you're suppressing that. She was like, when I was in the closet, this happened, and she was like, well, no, I'm openly gay with Ivy. And she's like, no. It's evil. Yeah, it's evil. You're evil.

Like, that's, I think the main thing that's going to be, that's going to be, or it's going to be Hardy's question mark for the rest of the season. And it'd be interesting to see which way she goes. It's interesting because it's like. As a viewer, I genuinely am like, I don't know where you're going to go with this. I'm like, I don't know. I can't theorize where Harley can be in the middle. I don't know. And I think that that might be where we could, where at least I kind of bump on the show,

possibly spinning its wheels a bit with Harley's growth because we're here with four seasons and we don't, I don't really feel the biggest, like, change of heart or change in her. like she is she is a good guy quote unquote because it kind of just works with what she's doing now she hasn't like had a i guess dark now to the soul moment which like i feel like she truly believes in these things i think it's just more of like this is what works for her now and i think i hope that we can see by the end of the season that this is a bit more of a like emotional growth which i hope comes with either a separation of or like attraction further to Ivy

because they're more and more on the phrase of each other and I think that like Jomey do you think that Harley's inevitable growth or potential growth would come at the cost of her and Ivy's relationship? No, I get like you said like they've talked about them not breaking up and I tend to I tend to you know see where the showrunners are coming from But at the same time, if we're going to, like, do the whole, all right,

Hardy Quinn is a good character now. She's a good guy. She's on a bat fan. You know, she's in the streets for Gotham. You know what I'm saying? She's going to go that deep. Then what does that mean for Poison Ivy, right? Like, Poison Ivy, as far, as far as this show is showing me, great villain,

fantastic villain. Not barely a villain. Barely. You know, like, in this, like, last five episodes. Billing on the boardroom, I guess. Still his boardroom, but, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, she's thriving in the area. No, 100.

If we come around and, like, now Poison Navi has to, like, give up the Legion of Doom, give up all that. So she should support Harley and just be, like, not really evil, just like a housewife, you know, for Harley. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's not what I want, right? That's not what I want.

So, like, if Harley's going to go all the way into being a superhero, then how does that affect Poisoniners? Again, I don't see them breaking up, but where does that take? Like, the way to answer that question for me is where does that take poison Ivy? I think, yeah, 100%. I also think if they never break up, I think they're going to just keep going, which they can do the route of like, I mean, yeah, my version of a villain is literal innocent killing. Like when every time Ivy lets her emotion get a hold of her and she's like, I don't care who's around me while I beat up Clayface. I'm going to do it.

Like, I don't care if I kill a bunch of it. innocent people. I'm like, yeah, that's the villain that I was wanting, but I think they're going to keep going this route of like the real villain is like Bruce Wayne, Wayne Enterprise, like all these things that were destroying this, the inconvenience them, which is going to piss them off. And the joke

of all of that is cool and funny, but like I think at the end of the day we need to have something a tiny bit more substantive that I think the show knows that it has to do. Well, there's so many working hands, so many things going off because I also am like, yeah, we have that situation going on. We also have her ignoring the three

young women that are genuinely trying to be villains and learning that we're going to hit again eventually. Maybe not the next episode, but maybe the next episode after that she's going to realize, why am I listening to these Johns without an age? And why am I doing all these things? I was a woman of business. I'm here to further women's careers. She's going to figure that out. And so that's why I'm like, there's so many moving parts that I think they can only touch on one at the moment.

And it might just be that one where she's like, I'm a woman of business. I'll tell you what, Ben, when those three characters showed up, I didn't even know what to think, but then when they're going through the list of plans, and Tara's like, earthquake bingo, Poise and I was like, all right, cool, yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. What do you mean by that? Like, do you want to elaborate? No, I was sold. You're like, great.

I'm going to do this. This is the team that I'm betting on. It's like, all right. When she gave her the basketball shirt. She was like, sorry. I'll tell you, man, Lake Bell is like absolutely, like, absolutely, like, the best part of all of it. Like, just poison ivy just hums every single. line reading is just like great.

Like the asides, you know, somebody talks and she's like, it's always funny. I love Lake Bell since the first time I've seen her. You've been on this island. And then as soon as she, they were like, yeah, Lake Bell is doing, I was like, oh, that's interesting. Because I never really heard of do voiceovers or voice acting. And then when I listened to this, I was like, she is Poison Ivy.

Poison Ivy is her. This like, very smart, but also the lazy tone of afterwards of being like, well, if I'm going to mama macaroni, so I'm going to. also a funny bit throughout the show maybe not the pizza maker but mama macaroni making an appearance in almost everything all the time amazing it's very very good you gotta get the garlic knocks are back garlic knots are back there was it what does she say

was it in there's just one scene where Lake Bell as Poisoned Ivy just goes Fah! It just screams and holds it for a solid minute and I was like I'm having so much fun the season or the season two where they hook up for the first time. They might have been the second time when they either find the show them bed

and she's just like, oh, shit, fuck nuggets. God damn it. I love when they're just like, hey, can you guys just curse a tangent and they're so uncomfortable doing it? Or like, Poison Ivy's uncomfortable doing it because that's just her. But it's so fun.

And this is like, not to, again, actively root for this, but like, also if Harley and Ivy breakup, like season one spinoff of the Poison Ivy show. the thing is they can give an office spin-off to the Legion of Doom easily even with them together I I'm I'm for them never breaking up I'm like yeah same I'm for them with it but like we've got to like you gotta you gotta enforce this somehow you gotta actually like put them through like some not to say that they haven't

been through trials and tribulations but like I got to see like some sort of like regression and then growth and then commitment to change which like again we're talking about super villains that want to be eco-terrorists and still want to make a great funny show. Like, I get that that's a tall order. Yeah. But I think this show is capable of it because we've seen it do amazing things before. Yeah. So of the amazing things that we've gotten, let's talk to the big back picture and talk about

the broader things that's coming out from this. Strictly from the animated offerings that D.C. has been giving us. Where would you place Harley Quinn with this DC and non-D.C. properties? Oh, it's not fair. I love the Justice League. Unlimited? The animated one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or just like, you combine them. Yes. Right. Wait, are we, we're putting, you said, within the DC and out of the DC. Within the DC first. Let's go with that first. Oh, fuck. Because that was good.

I mean, Teen Titans is amazing. Mm-hmm. The original Batman. Oh, damn. That's not fair. Okay, give me a second. It can be fair. Well, there's a lot of heat, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Is this better than justice? Nothing's better than the end. Young justice. A lot of things about the current young justice, but... Have some goddamn respect.

I love young justice. Young justice is great. It's so good. Yeah, I mean, the DC bag is deep in terms of their animated content. Like, there's... They win on animated content.

We can be here forever, Tom. I know. All the good stuff that they make. So, I mean, Hardee Quinn is definitely, you know, one of the top offerings, you know, in terms of like, even stuff that just come up

recently. Harley Quinn is one of the best things. That's why they're on season four. That's why, you know, we're looking for, like, more seasons and other stuff, they're like, cool, hey, man, we're not, we're not making that anymore. Just keep that pushing, my boy, you know what I'm saying? James Gunn kept this one, you know what I mean? So it means something.

He said, let me put myself in it. Let me put myself in it. It's so weird. It's hard comparing it to other things because they are good. But I will say that I put the Harley Quinn show in a different bracket because it's so personal. I think for everyone. I feel like we can relate more to the Harley Quinn show than to Young Justice. Sure. Right? Yeah. And the original Batman. There's weirdly enough there's a bit more relatability in the show about Bain with a pasta maker. It's like why I put, she Hulk so high as I'm like,

yeah, I'm a 30 year old girl going through the same situation, except for I'm not, you know, taken in blood and doing all that stuff. But I'm like, I love the Harley Quinn show. So I put it right below those four. that I named off. Right below the four that I named off. For the listener, I really wish you could see the amount of hand motions that just goes like folding Harley Quinn into a list. She's doing that Dr. Strange magic with her hands.

As much as I definitely relate to existential crisis, Jim Gordon in this animated series. You're a damn good cop, Jim. Go when he took the security guard job. Oh, my God. Christopher, what? Christopher Menoli is ridiculous. Christopher Menoli is so good. Second to Lake Bell for me, but like, so, God, his...

Beattie eyes and constant. So good. So good. You're a damn good cop, Jim. No, I genuinely, I don't know if I get more excited for an animated DC thing unlike this show. Like, this is still one of my favorite things that comes out whenever I hear that we're getting a new season, whenever we're getting a spin-off, whenever we're getting a special. I'm excited and I'm sad. And it has not changed with this season, but I think that this is probably something that,

we really can take from when it comes to James Gunn's new vision for his DC. EU. C.U. I wanted it to feel not. Not like this? No, no, no, no. I was like, I still wanted to be like, like, I mean, I don't know what Loki season two is going to actually give us.

But from the trailer, I was like, oh, this doesn't feel like it's dealing with scrolls. It doesn't feel like it's dealing with like major, major MCU. It's not like in the MCU. It's like, hey, we're in a space. We exist in a place outside of space and time. Sure. So we're not really going to be messing with the characters in the MCU too heavily. And I kind of want that with Harley Quinn still.

I want it to feel like, I wanted to feel like it's out. It's outside of the same time and existence as the rest of the DC universe now. Do you feel like it has a balance problem with all of those like cameo characters, big characters, bad family, all of that? So fun. I'm like, and then also just like, dude, like, Marvel can't really do it because Sony owns too many Spider-Man characters. But, like, keep making fun of Batman's... Rose Gallery.

Everyone. Oh, my God. Professor Pitt. No one knows that character. Of course. So I'm literally like, yeah, keep going. Keep making fun of these. Keep bringing in these big characters because you can do it.

And I want you to keep doing it until, like, James Gun is like, oh, well, now we want to put this person in a better light. Exactly. I'm like, keep doing it. Until you want to redeem Clock King and Riddler as a couple of the year. And then also, maybe... I don't know. This is just me reading too much into it. I'm like, I love

Clock King so much. I'm like, once you bring him into, if you do want to make him like, you turn and he's in prison in a new Superman movie, I'm like, that's not my Clock King. I was like, he's not wearing his book tie. Where's his husband? Not my Clock King. Like, I'm getting so attached.

And also, like, Man Bat is so dumb. It's such a dumb, dumb, dumb character. And they made him just literally a screeching bat that has pants. And I'm like, yeah, keep doing that. Keep making me do this. Like, I love this. I think this will stay separate.

I think, I mean, part of it is just, you know, not to turn on a business corner with a Jimmy done on NBA. Oh, okay. This show drives, as long as it drives subscribers, they'll keep making it. Yeah, that money. Yeah, like, that's what HBO. That's what all the streamers do, right? Do we know how much money is me? No, I mean, it's as long, again, if people are, like,

So what, like, most of streamers do, especially Netflix, right? This is the Netflix model, right? Netflix will make a show. Yes. Okay? People watch it. People subscribe for it. They'll order season two.

Yeah. And then nobody subscribes to watch season two. Oh. The numbers don't go up in terms of viewers. They're like, cool. Cancel it. And so this show survived the culling of all the D.C. content. Zazco.

Well, Zaz James Gunncoe, where they looked at everything and said, all right, cool. I'm sure, like, you know, HBO. of the Max Disney, or not Disney, Edgeo Max Warner Brothers, but like, hey, listen, so, you know, you have full control, but I just want to let you know, like, these, these ones, like, actually make us money. So if you could, like, keep

that for us. Or these are actually good, and these are actually, like, things to keep on the catalog. How many good shows have you, like, seen on streamers that got, like, two seasons and they got canceled? Yeah, that's true. Well, that's usually the Netflix problem, where, like, things are either too expensive

or, like, too old. I also think, overly invested in and it becomes inflated and they have to cancel it. I feel like Harley Quinn's, you know, budget remains relatively the same. I mean, budget, I mean, if people are watching it, people are subscribing for it, they're going to keep it on the platform. Sure. Right? The minute it's not making them a profit or it's not helping them get to get out of the black.

We can see a lady at the cribbo. Good luck. It's also good to have like an animated show on your roster because if shit hits the fan, you still, usually have the animation. And also with voice actors, like Alan Tudick, they have him playing like 12 different characters. All beautifully, by the way. And he's probably getting what,

the daily rate, right? Yeah, yeah. So he's just like, cool, man. How many characters want me to do the guy that's picking up the crab legs that keeps getting his crab legs taking away? It's like, yeah. Absolutely. Can you be the guy that delivers the crab legs to the Joker and have a conversation between the Joker and the guy that delivers the crab legs? And he's like, okay, sure, I guess I can do that.

And so it's like, I think it's like good to have that the back burner. It's also good to have a show that can connect to youth and adults. And then... No, but as long as people keep watching the show and people keep coming here, they'll keep making it. You know, people stop watching the Titans. So they were like, Titans, Don't Patrol. Get out of here, player. You know, I think with My Adventure of Superman also dropping, you know, good episodes every week, you know, I think we're an interesting place with the D.C. Universe where, like, aside from the movies, because they've said, like, all right, cool, everything we make is.

super canon except for Harley Quinn and MyVen Superman and the Batman movie with Matt Reeves and Robert Patterson. But all the other stuff is within this world. And so I think it's a little weird for me personally for them to be like cool. Everything we make is like within this little bubble versus like you have such like an expansive universe of DC and you know that like a lot of this animated stuff works. Why are you like limiting yourself to creature commandos? Like you. like really like you know like lifts the thought process there my boy you know when you have Batman and

Superman and all these things that you can tackle you know so probably gonna do what he did with Guardians with creature commanders I don't give I don't you can blow that you can blow it out you can blow it out you can make something out of nothing no one really care if he makes the fucking Godfather 2 with creature commanders that's my favorite one bro like who

what are you doing my guy he did it he can flip it reverse it We're going to see, man, but that's a, that's a, like, that's a shot from like 94 feet. I, hey, that's how I kind of feel about the guardian. When they were like, there's a Guardian movie, I was like, wait, what? I was like, this team. He did it once. And then he did it.

He did it once. He did with the Scooby-Doo, gang. All right. Last one before we get out of here. We get one Harley Quinn spin-off character to get their own show. Who is it? What's the show? It's definitely, it's definitely King Shark.

King Shark in the ocean being like a father. And he's... You want like the Sopranos in the ocean? Yeah, he's not letting his kids watch all right. He's like, guys, you can't watch this show. You're too young. So you want like a married with children, but... I don't know about what...

King Shark. Because Tabitha don't really like that dude at all. Yeah, smoking the cigarette underwater. Yeah, I don't care. You might have to be... You might have to be co-parenting and like... It's like a romantic comedy. Like King Shark, you know, trying to fly.

You know, it's hard for man. Is he trying to make it work with it? with his baby mom. No, no, no, no. Here's your thing, right? It's hard to date when you got eight kids. Right? You know what I'm saying?

Do, do, do. And it's like, it's like coming home to his eight children. They're like, dad. It's kind of like a sound of music, except like underwater. Saks of music. I think it's a bit, but I think it's a lot more nuanced in the sound of music. I like the idea of Ron Flinch's on the sound of music. That would be great.

I want, I don't know if it's a full-ass series, maybe just a special where it's the lady luncheon that they would. into and I want to just see all those girls exist on a retreat, including Talia and like Ivy. So girls' corporate retreat. Yeah, I want to see that. I think that would be so fun. Kind of like the Bachelorette episode.

Yeah, I was like, it would be like the Bachelorette, except for these are like women that are really smart that are just genuinely like white boards full of like ideas and like the plans they do are like actually successful villainy plans whereas the retreat had Nora. No, I mean, it's great. You get Nora, Tadio, I'll go, Poison, Ivy, Catwoman. And Meg Whitman together. I hate Meg. That is such a funny joke.

Rose. He's like, what am I? At a goddamn picnic? Rose's a picnic? Rose is an outdoor one. The Meg Whitman bit was so funny. You know the last CEO job she had? CEO of Quibi.

Wow. That's real evil. That's rude as hell. Shout out to the summer of Quibby. That's rude as hell. The summer of Quibby, it was six weeks. Six weeks and everybody was getting a job. Everybody was getting money.

Everybody got a job. Everybody got a job. I'm not going to name nobody with the summer of Quibi. I didn't work on Quibi. But I wish, I knew a lot of people that actually did with Quibby.

That's the thing. If you live in Los Angeles you know somebody that had a summer of Quibi. A lot of people. I've seen a lot of stars I'm going to name that was out there

with Quibi checks. You feel me? They got that bag and they did. Get the check. The thing was, okay, let me tell you some real. The shows weren't that bad. Like, they were like a good idea,

but the situation was I didn't want to watch that on my phone. And it took me so long for me to connect the two, that I was like, why can't I screen cat? I was like, why can't I put this on my TV? And they're like, it's only on your phone. And I went, oh, I ain't.

Well, this is stupid. I was done. What am I doing? What am I doing right now? What am I doing right now? Also, like, Quibi is short for quick bites. Same amount of syllables. Yeah.

You didn't have to do that. Quibi was the quickest bite. It's tough. Well, not really. Well, with that, it's time to close. That's a wrap for us. Thank you so much for listening to Mint Edition. Follow us on social's Instagram.

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on this episode as well. Junior Mintz, thank you for listening. Jomi, Jess, any parting words for the people? Shout out to y'all. Love you guys. Thank you all, always for listening. And of course, shout out to our great producer, number one, out here in the ringer.com. What a great website. Kaylee Kormko.

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