The Ringer-Verse - 'Invincible' Finale Instant Reactions and Season Awards

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

The Midnight Boys suit up to give their instant reactions to the jaw-dropping season finale of 'Invincible' and their thoughts on the show as a whole. They make the case for why this show stands out from the typical superhero fare and why it is worth your attention if you haven't seen it already (04:30). Then they get into what they thought of the season's final episode (14:24) before giving out a handful of awards, including Best Fight and Best Side Character (45:24). Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal and TD St. Matthew-Daniel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What was you in the blue and the yellow? Why don't you meet the team after school? May we count on you in the future? Yeah, I think so. And bored of this. Into the ringerverse. You know what it is, it's Friday. So it's the midnight boys.

Yes, this time, we are not diving into the Falcon and the Northern Soldier, because that's over. That's over. We did that. We talked about that. That people are getting at me about some of our falcon to wear a soldier takes. They're upset that we didn't like the suit, Charles. They're insane.

That suit did not look great. Of all our takes, I'm surprised that's the one that people are like, nah, y'all went too far. I had somebody hit me up and said, it looks cool. Shut up. I'm like, wow. Wow. Okay. Why?

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This is a special episode of the Midnight Boys, not centered around Falcon and We're a Soldier like we just said, but we are reacting to the season finale and really the season as a whole of Invincible on Amazon Prime. Now, this is a show that I've been seeking the praises of. I know you have been too, Charles, but we haven't got a chance to hit it on the Midnight Boys yet. The show is over now.

it was kind of an unexpected hit. I was not expecting it to like, I love Invincible. We'll get into it. I'm a lifelong fan of Invincible. I'm very surprised that the masses like took to an animated series like they did Invincible because this is not IP.

This is not Harley Quinn. These are completely new characters. Right, right. Okay, so we're going to dive into Invincible today. But check out Mal, the House of Mal, on Tuesday, May the 4th. May the fourth be with you. She is going to jump into a deep dive on the new Star Wars Disney Plus series,

The Bad Batch, which I also am extremely excited for. And we're going to have more Ring of Vers surprises coming next week as well. But yeah, right now it's all about Invincible. Now, before we jump into the discussion of the season as a whole and of the season finale, why don't we just talk about Invincible Season 1 itself? Wait, wait, wait, let's pause really quick before. We have some housekeeping right now before we get into Invincible. I know you've been getting it from everywhere.

Everyone's been at you. But I have to congratulate my boy, Academy Award winner. Oh. Ban Laceda. We do it. And my boys back home, they would be mad at me. They would be mad at me if I didn't ask you one of the most. important questions after getting one of those golden statues.

Are you ready? What's the most important question? Yo, then, you know, I got bills, man. I got loans. Yo, can I hold time real quick? Like, you can you get right? A little bit on the start real quick. I'm good for it, bro.

Yeah, yeah. Let me tell you something. I'm glad you asked that because ain't nothing changed. You know, that cash flow still flowed from Spotify into the bank account, and it ain't flowed nowhere else. You sure you don't got like people back from like middle school being like, yo, Van, man, I got this script.

Could you look at it? I will say this. Of course, again, a little bit of that. I will say this, though. All of love has been great. And if you do have a script, I do want to read it because we are looking for our next thing to produce.

And there are stories that need to be told. So I'm definitely going to be one of those people that remains accessible and who is really. Stop line. That's what they all say. I'm being for real. I already, I already asked Van for you know, like some tickets to next year's Rock Nation's brunch and he's like,

I don't know, man. I'll see what I can do. So you already changed up on the midnight voice. I'm not a rock nation brunch type of guy, but I appreciate the world wishes though, bro. No, I'm seriously, but seriously, I'm very proud of you, man. A tear streamed down my, my eye.

I'm there. Congratulations, man. You deserve. Appreciate you. Appreciate you, my brother. Appreciate you, my brother. Now, I cried as well. And I'm going to tell you why I cried today.

But before I tell you why I cried, at this last episode. Let's talk about the season ended up itself now. You have an advantage on me on this podcast because you were an invincible comic book fan,

the comic book, which came out, I think, around 2003 or 2003 or 2004? 2003, 2004, early 2000s, yes. This was when I was probably

in middle school, high school, so this is like my series. Bold thing for me to say, but I believe it, it's a top five comic book series of all time when it's all said and done.

Amazing. Now, I guess for a fan of the source material itself, why did it deserve your attention then and why does it deserve anyone's attention away from the big bad stuff, the big awesome stuff happening in the MCU? Why Invincible? What would you say? I think for the comic book series, back then, you know, you had this guy Robert Kirkman. This is, I think, a few months before he would drop Walking Dead. So he is not even at the peak of Robert Kirkman powers. And he creates Invincible and it is not successful at first. Like it does fine, but it's not until the Omni Man twist of him being evil where people really start paying attention. And Robert Kirkman was really a pioneer. in that he was coming in at a time where the comic industry,

you were either working for DC or you were working for Marvel. And I think he very early on realized that he could make more money or maybe down the line, not then, but more money if he owned these characters. So, like, I think he got the last laugh. And if you keep reading Invincible, you don't get this as much in the series, but not only is it a comic about comics and a comic about superheroes, it's very much a comic about Robert Kirkman's dissatisfaction with the big two.

And I think you see that in a lot of the deconstructions of Omni Man and like the Spider-Man Peter Parker stories that run throughout Invincible, those send-ups. So I think from that, that's why it's one of my favorite compels of all time. And I think just watching the series, what I think is so brilliant about it is with Wanda Vision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I don't know if you feel this way, Van, but those are heavy series. One of them deals with grief, one of them deals with race.

And it was very nice to have a break where you're just getting to watch a series that's just about how awesome superheroes and comic book superheroes are. And I kind of felt refreshed in that way. I'd agree with that. I'd also say that there is a beautiful brutality in the series that exists, that won't exist, should I say, in anything that the MCU does. So something that the NCU has problems with are stakes. Look, we know that these guys are around for so many different movies.

We know that these guys aren't going to go anywhere for a while. We understand that. So one of the things that the MCU has to do, that's why Infinity War was the most affecting movie that the MCU has ever had because the heroes lose at the end of the day. Yeah. And they lose. Now, we know all these characters are coming back, but still, it was flooring to watch it happen.

It's a good departure from that to where, especially for someone who's not familiar with the source material, where you're not quite sure what's going to happen and who's going to survive and who's going to get a tow tag, you know? Wait, but let's be real. I think the reason that people are flocking too invincible in the way they are is because even if you grew up on comic books, I think one of the Cardinal's sins was when they killed off Superman and brought him back. that made death something in comic books that just wasn't, you know your biggest heroes are going to come back. And we've seen it, Winter Soldier, he's Bucky. We saw it back then. Nobody thought Bucky was going to come back. He was in that upper echelon of like, nobody's bringing back on Coplebed. Nobody are bringing back these characters. And now every character has died. Every character has come back. And I think when you watch Invincible, when a character dies, you feel it. And it's the same thing with Walking Dead. Any character at any time. Same thing with Game of Thrones can be offed. And that raises the stakes in a way, like, to your point, they can't do that in the

MCU. We know for a fact these actors are signed up for like six, seven, eight movies. And I think we're starting to see them run up against that challenge with these TV shows. So that's why I also felt it was a palat cleanser. And that's a good way to put it, a pallet cleanser. My overall impression of the first season of Invincible, I loved it. I thought it was so well done. done. I'm talking 10 out of 10 in every single category. I am in love with this series.

This series is crazy fucking good. Right. Every character bothered me at times, which is always a great sign for a series because I felt connected to them. To me, Omneman is right up there in Homelander and the Plutonian territory in terms of crazy. scary Superman analogs, the interpersonal relationship between Omni Man and Debbie, everything worked to me. Every single thing worked to me.

Now, as somebody, once again, though, I wasn't familiar with the source material. What about you? Overall, before we get into the nuts and bolts, how did you feel about the first season? I like the first season, but I'm going to do something that always annoys me.

You ever have one of those friends that read the Game of Thrones books? And like, you watching the TV show, No, no, no, no, no, no. I had them, but I got rid of them motherfuckers. No. Because they're annoying as hell. Oh, bro.

I had a homie. So listen, I had them. I used to, I had a homie named Christian. And Christian is a very talented guy. I remember Christian was so excited about Game of Thrones, right? And he was telling me I had never even heard of that shit before. It was like 2009, 2010. It's like they're making Game of Thrones.

I don't even know what that is. He was talking about just a song of Fire and Ice. I said, no clue. And then the first thing. comes and it's so good. And every time I call Christian to talk about it, Christian, he's got something stuck up his ass. But they didn't really do it like this.

And that's not how it really happened. Bye. Peace. Hell no. You're not about to ruin my shit. I don't want to know. I remember going, we went to see the departed.

And someone in our group was like, you guys got to see infernal affairs. I saw that shit. I don't need you to big time. me when I'm trying to watch my shit. I saw it. All right. Stop.

I hate it when people do that. And now you're going to be that guy. I'm not going to be that guy. Fucking head and be that guy, Charles. No, I'm not going to be that guy. I'm going to tell you why I'm not going to be that guy. Because, like, I realize I'm one of those like Game of Thrones, Terry Potter people. When you're trying to watch like the movie or TV show, like, well, in the comic books or in the books.

He didn't really die. Oh, Kat came back to life in the books. Oh, she was Lady Dragness or whatever. Fuck off. I'm sick of it. And I think that's where I came at it was like, I had some disappointments with the season just being so in love with the source material.

But what I will say is, I'm still a music journalist, and I hated when people were like, yo, man, I was on this shit before everybody else. I'm like, no, let's have everybody love the thing because that means we're going to get more of it. I want more people to read independent comic books. I want more, like, a new generation to be like,

oh, we don't got to do Superman. we don't have to just want to write for Batman or the X-Men. We can make our own shit. And that's what I'll say. Like, was the season to me perfect? No. But do I enjoy that everybody's falling in love with the characters that I'm already in love with? Absolutely.

So I think the season did what it had to do. Now, let's get into spoiler zone now. Let's get in the spoiler zone. I need to do one thing before we get in the spoiler zone. I know we were only supposed to spend five minutes here, but I need to do one thing before we get in the spoiler zone. All right. Just tell me what your issue with the animation is real quick.

That's what I want to know. All right. So, like, Herbiby was on me. And I was just like, I thought that, like, this was a commonly held belief. The animation to me in some points,

I'm like, dog, I know Jeff Bezos. I know Jeff Bezos could, like, break off a billion dollars for them and it wouldn't even be nothing. I'm not saying he should.

I'm just saying he could. It's nothing. A couple extra million to Jeff Bezos is literally what he spends on any given day. And the animation to me, like I'm someone who loves animated shows, shows of anime, something that I've grown up on, still love it.

And you're telling me, Van, that some of those background shots of everybody running away doesn't look like straight out of the 90s animation. I'm talking about like the MTV Spider-Man series. I'm not talking about the Fox Spider-Man series. I'm talking about the one that was like new CGI looked terrible. Like some of the shots in Invincible look garbage, bro. I don't know what you're talking about.

I really don't. I think you look at the animation, you take it for what it is, I think the animation looks fine. I can't go from like Demon Slayer and Jiu-Jitsu Kizen, which are anime, and like there's already stuff

that New York Times articles about like the terrible conditions that anime animators have to deal with. But I can't go from Jiu-Jitsu Kisen and Demon Slayer to some of the shit that Invisible tried to pass off. That's all I'm saying. I want more from American animation, but that's the last negative thing

I'll probably say on this because I did like the season. I did like the season. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available. in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP

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Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Now we are getting specifically into the spoilers for the Invincible season finale and for the season as a whole. If you have not, at this point, watch the season finale of Invincible. You should stop listening to The Midnight Boys right now because we are about to ride into the Invincible season finale. Chalk full of spoilers from here on out.

Okay. Wait, are you doing a 40 second recap? No, there's no 40 second recap. No, you have to do a 40 second recap of the whole. of the whole series. I can't, you can't do a 40 second recap of an entire season. I literally could do a 40 second recap of the entire series right now with nothing in front of him. Steven?

I mean, all right. Let's get the timer out. I would love to see this. You want that, if that's what you, if that's the type of shit you want, you know what? I can do it. I'm going to track it on my phone, guys. This is off the dome. This is off the top of the dome.

Mix tape, Wayne. Let's go. All right, count it down in three, two, one. go. Mark Grayson is the son of this world Superman called Omneman. He wants powers. He finally gets powers. He goes back to his dad. His dad is like, yeah, he tries to be a superhero. He meets the team team. He makes some friendships. He has a girlfriend. He goes through the whole Peter Parker, Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane thing. They have

their ups. They have their downs. Mark learns how to be a superhero. He finds out that his dad is evil. They fight it out. And at the end of it, we realized that Mark always had what he needed inside of him time. Stephen? I mean, that was like 30.2 seconds. I didn't even need the extra 10. So here's a deal.

You definitely fit into the time. I'm going to be honest with you. That was a garbage-ass recap. You skipped from Mark and ever. It's the clip-notes version. You got it in the time. You got it in the time. You got it in the time.

but you left out a lot of shit. It's the Cliff knows version. I'm not giving them the nitty gritty. We're about to give them the nitty gritty. You're being a hater. I'm not being a hater. You said you wouldn't change up on me, man, if you've already changed up on me.

What I'm saying is I'm saying that you didn't mention anything about Omni Man and Debbie. You didn't mention anything about Debbie suspecting that Omni Man killed the original Guardians of the Globe. You didn't say it's so much shit. But you know what? But here's the thing. Here's the thing.

You're the Omni Man. You're the Omneman of the Midnight Boys, all right? And I had to step up when you left. Okay, I had to step up. Maybe I wasn't ready for it, but I'm here. Okay. All right, we're doing. All right.

Season finale reactions. Okay, this finale starts with just an insane. It's coming off the cliffhanger of the penultimate episode, and it leads into an insane battle between Invincible and Omni Man. And I don't even know if you want to call it a battle, as much as you want to call it a lesson. This was a lesson. Of course, Omneman finally reveals to Invincible

that he was not coming from Vilthrum to watch over Planet Earth. He was coming from Vilthrum to conquer planet Earth. And then there is, in my opinion, one of the most brutal animated sequences I have ever seen before in my life. As Invincible, obviously, I don't know what he thought of his son, if he thought his son was going to be like,

okay, dad, let's go fuck up the earthlings. Nah, dude, this guy's in high school. Like, this kid is in high school, very inartfully done by Omni Man. Wait, can I just say, Mark wasn't scared enough for me. He needed that fear of like when your mom, like you knew you fucked up and your dad wasn't home. And she gives you that, all right, all right, wait till he gets on.

Wait till I tell him. You know what I'm saying? And it puts the fear of God and you like, hopped. No, please don't. I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad you brought that up because. My dad ain't even no Viltramite. And I wouldn't talk to him like that.

No. See, if my dad told me right now, if my dad will tell me right now, hey, Van, just let you know your entire life, I've been a double agent for the Soviets. And we got to go live in Moscow now. I'd be like, okay, father, I'm not saying nothing. I'm not nothing. Mark was just, and Mark's dad is Omni Man.

So that shows me his entire life. He wasn't getting to put on that ass. No. Like, they were doing timeouts in the Grayson House. But this battle, it wasn't so much a battle of strength because Mark's strength cannot compare to Omnibans. It was a battle of wills. And in the end, I personally feel like Mark actually won the battle

because he refused to give up and break his will to follow his father. What are your thoughts? I think the thing that was beautiful about the fight besides animation, that's obviously where all the budget went because it was a beautiful looking fight is that throughout the whole series it's a running joke

on social media Mark gets his ass kicked I don't know if there is one battle that Mark truly truly wins and if you like go back to those

first few episodes we remember Mark when the alien invasion came and like he's getting it handy to him left and right and like throughout the series we see him having to pick himself up

and feeling like he's not good enough but throughout this whole fight it's not like he's really getting in any, like, really strong, like, right hooks on Omneman. Omneman is taking blow after blow. But what ends up affecting Omneman is that he's going to have to kill Mark. Mark's not going to stop. Like, Mark's going to keep coming after him.

What do they call it? Like, when Unstoppable Force meets an immovable object, Mark is the unmovable object. And it's those emotions that finally gets Omnibuble. man to do what we later learn, Alan the alien comes, and he's just like, no viltramite's ever done that. No viltramite just abandons their post. And I was like, that was the win for me. That mark didn't give up. So starting with the fact that there's no viltramite that's ever abandoned their post,

Omneman seems unstoppable throughout the course of this, right, especially in this fight. But Omniband does have a weakness. His weakness, as we see, is Mark. that's his biggest weakness. Mark is Omneman's biggest weakness. Two reasons why I say that. Number one, he had a duty to the Viljum Empire to kill Mark. He couldn't do it.

That was his weakness. Number two, Mark himself shows what Omni Man wasn't willing to do. I would imagine that no Vilterianite has ever left their post before because they probably have been raised and reared in a different way than what Mark was. When Omneman is recalling, when he not... knocks Mark's teeth out, and he's recalling, watching that same snagletooth young boy hit a ball, there was something different. There was something unique about humanity.

Like in that scene, Debbie is explaining humanity to Omneman. Okay, she's explaining humanity to him. And at first, he doesn't get it, but then after a while, he does. And there's a possibility that in all of the places that he had visited, and all the times that these other villasemites had gone out and done this, that they hadn't come across a group of people just as beautifully fucked up as we are, right? Whose lives were as short and as precious as ours are, who enjoyed things the way that we do.

And so humanity might just be as weakness. And even you see that in the differing view that he has of Mark's mom, Debbie, and Mark. He says, I do love your mother. I love your mother like a pet. And I have never heard a more devastatingly accurate way to describe that type of love. Because I love my dog. I love Bozeman. Like, I love my dog.

But I love him the way that you love a life form that you acknowledge is a lower life form than you. something that you have to take care of, something that you could do whatever you want with. It's a different type of love than something on the other side of you that you give agency and empower. And so he, unlike the love that he feels for Mark's mother, he obviously sees something of himself and Mark

because he couldn't destroy it. When you look at that flashback scene, when Omni Man is softening, when Mark is a little kid playing baseball, I think Debbie hits on kind of like the big, big theme of the whole season. She's like, quote, as we get older, it's harder to feel that. The weight of the world, it bogs us down. But our children remind us of the joys and life.

And I think so much of Invincible is about fatherhood. And it's about omneman's internal struggle with what he owes his people, what he's been taught by his people, and what he owes his family. And I think what's interesting about this is like when you bring up kind of like the Superman analogs is like for people who haven't kind of read the comics, around this time, like the 2000s, all of these series are being made like around the same time. When you talk about the boys, Invincible, Netflix is Jupiter's Legacy, the runaways at Marvel, all of these are either about evil superheroes, evil Superman, or evil parents that have superpowers. And you have this new class of comic book creators who are becoming fathers at the

same time. So they're dealing with their own issues of fatherhood through these kind of like Superman analogs. And what I find so interesting about that is that it's such a kind of like, it's such a kind of like a thing when you like are, you reach like your 30s and your 40s when you're starting to think about like what did my father do right? What did my father do wrong? How am I like my father? And how can I be different? What lessons can I learn? And that's what excites me about the future of Invincible.

Because to me, Mark has a lot of the things in him that his father did. He says the viltramite DNA is so pure. You're basically a full viltramite. And what we see love of the viltramites is that, like, it's not that they have the absence of emotion. It's that they can't control it. Like, Omni Man is so angry. Omni Man is so, like, when somebody gets in his way,

we see what the Guardians of Globe. He doesn't know how to do anything but dispatch people. And I think that's something that, like, Mark is going to have to face. But I just thought that, like, that theme of kind of, like, fatherhood was just, like, was done perfectly in this last episode. One thing I'll say about that,

it's funny that when you talk about the evil Superman, that's even around the time those 2010s, that they actually took Superman in the injustice arc and actually then made him even evil. Yes. Because I think America's, I think a lot of these heroes that we're talking about, they were born and really came the prominence

in America's adolescence. You know, I mean, Superman comes in, I think, 1938 or thereabouts that time, but really begins, these comics really take off in the 50s and in the 60s. And that's around America's adolescence, right? I think as American society matured, and we had, we had an adult American society, right? And as American society matured, I think people's views of heroes changed.

And I think the complexity of characters became more interesting than the purity of characters. Superman's purity is fucking boring. Just to be real. Superman's purity is boring. Batman's tortured warped human mind is a play. thing for writers. So many different ways that you can go. So many different lives that he can

impact. So when you look at these guys, Omneman is all powerful and like all emotion, just like you said. And I got to be real with you. All the voice acting in this series is top notch Steven Yun, Sandra O.

But J.K. Simmons as Omni Man. Different world of talent. Different world. Feeling. I am. feeling, bro. When I say I am feeling J.K. Simmons as

Omneman, the animated character has a pulse and a lifeblood. It's amazing. As far as it relates to Omneman, you said that it was a while in the comic books before it was discovered that he was the bad guy. Yeah. It comes

much shorter in this series, as in the first episode, basically. Or at least you know that he's not who he says he is in the first episode. Yeah. Did it happen too fast? Did it, how does that change things for you as someone who's loyal to the source material? It happens too fast, but as someone who knows kind of like the streaming landscape that we're

in, we're not even in like HBO land when you're watching the Sopranos and it can just like cooking the crock pot anymore, you know? And you're just the wire where you'll just watch the entire season one. And then it's not really till the last season. I mean, the last episode of that first season when you're all in anymore. We need like that big thing first episode. And I think like that's what they had to do to get a new generation into it. And kind of going back to your point about kind of like these analogs, I think anybody can realize like by the time Ami Man's taking out the Guardians of the Globe, you know, the people not only creating these comics, but the people who are looking at them.

Like these are the children of the Vietnam War, children of the Iraq, war, we've done lived through how many, like the 2008 financial crisis, how many crises, and you see Omneman, and you know that that's a Superman analog. And in our brains, we're already taught that these symbols of hope, that you can't believe in them anymore, you know under the surface that you are going to, you are getting fucked over at every moment. So as much as I think, like, it probably would have been better writing to hold that off, I think that that. that's kind of like the honey that you needed with the medicine.

And that's kind of why I did enjoy this journey that they told it all with it very, very fast because I think as a society now, we are trained not to believe in Superman. We are trained for good reason, not to believe in these institutions. They have stabbed us in the back too many times. And if they had waited for that reveal two, three episodes,

I don't even think the Midnight Boys would be talking about Invincible if we're being honest. Interesting. So the series also put on its tinfoil hat in this episode. I saw Tinfoil Hat Alert. 10Fo Head Alert. When Cecil was telling Mark about how they're putting stuff in the water so that we can't see the special light,

if you guys are aware of all the tinfoil hatters out there, you know, they're putting fluoride in the water to do all kinds of stuff. Kim Trails That was not a great thing as like America is not doing that well with vaccinations not as well as they could be

and then what he started talking about What are you talking about we're doing fucking fantastic with vaccinations what do you mean? I don't know I don't know I got a couple people like you got the vaccination I'm like yeah man

he's like how are you feeling I'm like dog man dude we are not we are not going to where we're okay so listen you just said two different things you just said it's motherfuckers out there that don't want to take the vaccine

That's fine. If you want one, though, mostly for now, you can get it. Oh, no, that's different. If you want one, you could go get one. Oh, yeah. Oh, you mean American society. Like, American society is not respecting the fact that, like, there's some countries out here who don't even have it.

And, like, we got states begging people, like, yo, come down, take it. And once he started talking about the fluoride, and that's why, like, Mark can't see everything that's going on in this, like, secret Pentagon base. I was like, damn, this is not the right time. I'm dab to see. But why would the fluoride work on viltramites? That's kind of a weird thing. That's what I wanted to know.

That's like a, that doesn't make any sense. Like he's got perfect viltramite DNA, yet we can use fluoride tricks on him. That's wild to me. Like my thing is that I know he's part human, but still, the human part ain't flying in the space. So why would the fluorite get? Why don't you just bring Omnivena back down and give him some fluoride?

you can hide all kinds of things from them you can do all kinds fluoride makes it so he can't sit anyway wait can I ask you a really quick question I was watching this whole thing I another thing that popped out to me and I wanted to ask you in terms of Invincible

but like in the larger world I think the thing that Invincible asks was like what responsibility do the strong have to protect the weak like that is literally the whole kind of of battle between Omneman and Invincible.

Omneman thinks that all of us are cavemen. And Invincible was raised with these quote-unquote cavemen. And even if we go back to a previous episode, Mark himself is kind of naive in that way. He says I'm more of a big picture superhero when he's talking to dude with the, I forget his name, Titan. And all throughout this finale, like, Omneman is like, in order for our people to reach up full potential,

Yeah, it's remove the week from our society. Right. Which I think is so interesting. And I think it's like, it all speaks to Mark because technically Mark wouldn't have made it on Viltramite. Mark wasn't beating anybody this season. Mark was getting taken out by regular supervillains. Yeah, but he also, I also would say that being that he's human, maybe it took his powers a little while to come in or whatever. And then also he's raised, he wasn't raised in a war-torn battle scar.

society. You know what I mean? It's like the difference between raising you or me right now and how would we look if we have been raised as Spartans or Roman centurians or you know what I mean or Mongol warriors or anyone like that in cultures that were bred for warfare and survival of the fittest. Wait, would you think, do you think you wouldn't make it as a viltrumite? Probably not. And I'll tell you why. I'll be honest with you. It has to do with what on the man's wife said to him. Omneman's wife said that you need to have kids in order to understand humanity and understand, like, the good things about life.

That's what we do because we get bogged down by the world. I definitely get bogged down by the world, but I think I'm too easily entertained to be a viltramite. Because the reality is, when she's saying this, she's saying that. She's like, oh, we need something to remind us. I'm like, a good tort video does that for me. Reminds me about the good things in life, you know? I see something shaking around and I go, hey, things aren't so bad. How could they be?

Look at her. And the reality is like, if I could fly, the Viltram people are going to probably have a problem getting me to report back in. Like, Van, where are you at right now? It's like, bro, I'm on planet XB9180. They have some ramen here that you have never tasted before in your life. Some twerk videos in ramen. You're good. Have you conquered the planet yet?

No. I haven't. I like them. This tastes good. I'm not coming back to Viltram. You know what I mean? I'm not, I'm never coming back.

As a matter of fact, these ladies down here look good. I'm going to have 500 kids and we're going to fight y'all. I don't want to come back to Viltram because it seems like a lot of responsibility. Y'all seem whack to me. Y'all killing everybody.

That's not me. But no, I get with you out. I would not make a good Viltram. I definitely wouldn't. We're not, you and me and not Viltramite, we're Midnight Boys. Yes. No, we like to get into stuff and have a good, good time. We don't like to conquer people.

Rom in Tirk videos, that's all we want. That's what we want. Like, we're midnight boys. We're not, we're not, ugh, filatramites. So, speaking of the fluoride, Invisible World, though, what are they building in there? What do you think they're building in there? I mean, I don't want you to ruin, I don't want you to the future spoil for anyone, but as a reader of the source material, do you know what it is that they're building in there?

And if so, it seems like they're pretty far along in it. I'm wondering why it wasn't deployed to try to stop Omneman. Oh, it's already, why? It was already in the episode. They showed everything that they're building. I know they showed it, but I still kind of don't know what it is. Yeah, so basically Cecil's preparing. He's preparing for Nolan, Omni Man to come back.

He's already in it. So we see him trying to revive the immortal. we see the reaniman. He's basically trying to concoct whatever plan he can. And this is all in it. I'm not smart anything. He's trying to concoct whatever he can

to stop the vilter mites from invading. And we already saw, like, he knows, like, damn, we threw everything we could at Omni Man. And we ain't got a shit to show for it. So he's already in his bag just being like, dog. We got to go back in the lab. You know what I'm saying? Why didn't he try to revive the immortal

from the first time that he passed away? Because he didn't know. He didn't know. Like, this is, this is some of the stuff that, like, they didn't explain enough. But, like, basically, you learn in the comic books that you can revive the immortal. If you have his body parts together, if you place them together, hence the name. Yeah, hence the name. But they didn't know that.

They just, like, so now he's realizing after the Mahler twins put him together the first time, like, oh, like, even when he dies, we can put him back. But the funny thing is, we got to talk about episode 5 real quick. It is so funny when the immortal, like, wakes up and he screams, Omneman. And he, like, he goes to go fight him. And Anni Man's like, get this weak-ass motherfucker out of here. And he goes, and just chop them. Just it have, bro. What is the, what was the immortal thinking?

They must know. Omni Man is pretty unstoppable in this world where superheroes really take a lot of blows. The invulnerability here is not quite a little. you know, Superman, you can't do anything to a very few people can. This is different. This doesn't really, these heroes inflict, they get damaged. In that situation, the immortal, to me, has got to know that charging at Omni Man, after he's always been killed once, is not the best idea because he just ripped him

in half, like guts everywhere. Wait, can we talk about everybody's fighting strategy, for a minute, Mark's fighting strategy against his dad was very poorly planned. He was emotional. He didn't have a plan. He just learned that his dad is a part of a group of alien invaders. There was no plan.

All I'm saying is like maybe he's a little bit, like maybe he's a little bit more nimble. Like he can try to get like some quick blows in him, fly away quick blows. Like my band wasn't even trying no strategy. He was going in there fucking blind. He's a viltramite. Like you said, he was emotional.

He was crying. He was upset. He was charging. I kept waiting to be honest with you in the fight for his emotions to make him a charged up much, much more formative threat, maybe for him to go like Super Sand or something like that. But it never actually, that's not what happened. He's not on his father's level. What I will say is the loss that he, that he suffers during his fight when he tries to save the mother and the daughter in the building, all the subway scene. When Omneman takes Mark's head, lifts him up and basically like this is what you've done.

And like the subway comes and he uses his shield and Mark's body is basically impaling all these humans. Ripping through all of those human beings. I was like, God, damn. And all of that serves to let Mark know just how different he is. Mark knows that he's little D different. But Omni Man is saying, no, you're not just different in that you're a viltrumite. These people aren't even the same as you. They have nothing in common with you.

And they are so delicate as it pertains to you, as compared to you, they are so delicate, so easily breakable. He keeps trying to tell them, all these people are going to be dying. You're going to live for thousands of years. Like, you're not one of them. Stop acting like that. And Mark's emotional connection to the earth is actually what makes him. not do it. And then,

like we already said, Omni Man's emotional connection to Mark is the reason why I will say watching that, that is literally like when I was a teenager. And mind you, my dad was in the army. Like, he was buff.

And I was just like, I got a little full of my son. I'm like, I think I could take him. I think I could take him. And then you realize, like, how strong your dad is. Like, we were wrestling.

And like, I was like, God damn. Like, this is like literally that moment when you're teenager. Like, now my dad could still whip my ass at any single moment. Can I be honest with you.

I'm gonna be real with you. I don't have that. I think that our dad's generation was the last generation. I'm serious about this. I got a whole bit about this. I think our father's generation, how old is your dad, if you don't mind me asking?

4550. 4550. I think our fathers, so your dad and my dad around the same age or what are. So I think our father's generations are the last generation of old men to have old man strength.

Old man, dad's strength. Like, and the audience, my dad was not beating me. Like, I was coming to him, be like, yo, like, I, like, let's go. Like, can we get the one, like, let's have the one-on-one fight? And my dad's like, all right, cool, let's go. I should do it all the time. And it was just like the old man's strength of that generation. Like, I was like, like, I'm going to be real with you.

Like, I don't think like Will Smith, who's like a generation under my dad, right? I don't think like Will Smith has old man strength. No, no. I don't think he hasn't. I don't think Jay-Z. Doesn't have old man's strength. They didn't do the same stuff. And when I look at other guys that are even from around there,

because these guys were a little bit older than me, I don't think they have old man strength. I know I don't have it. The only strength I have is strength from doing the goddamn Versa-Climber and actually working out is I got regular strength. I don't think, I think our dad. It was different. I think it was different, bro.

I don't think it hasn't. Different, man. Different. Anyway, personally for Mark, everyone who knows about Invincible, finally all got on the same page with it. We see Will Eve and Amber all at Burger Mark together.

Everybody's telling each other's secrets. In season two, is it going to be difficult to care about Mark's personal life? Because throughout the season, that was one of the best things, wishing that Mark would tell Amber that he was invincible so that he didn't keep having to do that delicate dance with her.

Seeing the way he juggled high school and everything else with him trying to find his footing as a superhero, it was very interesting. Now the stakes have risen so high that I don't know if that's going to work for season two. The stuff with Amber and Will and Eve was, to me, my least favorite part of the finale. Can they make that part of Mark's life work going forward? Oh, man, I'm not going to spoil anything, but what I'll say for my boy Robert Kirkman is that I've always gone back

to like Invincible is a comic about subverting comics. Mark still has to subvert the Spider-Man Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane, love triangle. You know what I'm saying? We got Batman and Robin coming, you know? Like what happens then? Okay.

We still have, we still have the whole, is Mark gonna go to college? Does a superhero, can a superhero go to college in this world? Like, if he's the new Superman, will he have time for that? How does he make money? Like, I will say, like, the supporting cast is going to get richer. That's not going to go away.

But one thing before we go, I want to say the most emotional, we don't want to, we've got to touch on this. The most emotional part of this whole episode is when, like, Omni Man is giving him the hands. They're on top of Mount Everest or where they are. And he's just like, in 500 years, you'll look 30. and the rest of the humans will be dead. And what will you have?

And mark his blood-faced. Like, he's crying, and he says something to the effect of dad or have you. I would have had you, yeah. And that shit got to me. Yeah, I cried. Listen, any time it's about father, I don't care. Meet me and Temecula if you care about me crying. Anytime it's about fathers and sons and all of that type of stuff like that, it always gets me.

And it was affecting. This was such a big betrayal. Did you cry at the end of pursuit of happening or during pursuit of happiness? Oh, my God. So embarrassing. It was so stupid. Yo, I'm about to cry right now with the pursuit of happiness joint. Like the thing that really got me about the pursuit of happiness.

I'm seriously getting like chills. The thing that got me about the end of the pursuit of happiness was when he walks over and he goes, was it easy as it made it look Chris? And as you made it look Chris? and he goes, no. And you just know that he has been sleeping in a bathroom. Yes. And all of that.

It's like, oh, my God. Just super amazing. Super amazing. But I'm a crier. Look, I like to enjoy things. That's why I wouldn't make a good viltramite. I'd be somewhere on another planet and they'd be showing the movie. I'd be like, yo, how I'm going to kill these people when they just made something beautiful like Jerry McGuire?

Like, you know what I mean? Any race of people that can make Jerry McGuire, how could I take them over? I'm not taking over a group of people that can make loving basketball. These humans are okay. And they got nachos. All right, we've warmed up your palate.

Now it's time to get to the season one awards. All right? You ready. So, best fight. This is what's up for best fight. Omneman versus the Guardians. Cecil versus Omneman underrated sleeper. Invincible versus the A.

an invasion or Invincible versus Battlebees because they're saying lying but the battlebees. So good job making the whole thing right there, guys. Oh, it's not even on the list. You got to go, it's Omneman Invincible. And this is why. Because to me, it was the best animated fight, but also the mark of a good fight is when you show me some shit that I have not seen before. And the scene of Omneman holding up Invincible's body as a shield and killing all those people, I've never seen that. in any animated thing or any live action fight ever.

So I'm cheating, but it has to be Omni Man versus Invincible. That's what I'm going to. That's a good. That's a good answer. I think that it's not really a fight, but it is the best fight sequence. I mean, it's just really one person getting their ass kids, which is still a fight, I guess.

I'm going to go Cecil versus Omneman because I don't know Cecil had it like that. Cecil is really the only person to go up against Omni Man and not come away the worst for where. No fuck's given. No fucks given from Cecil. And also, he didn't get his entrails ripped out or his face beat in or anything to that degree. So I go with that one. But let's give it up for Battlebeast because Battlebeast, I can't wait for him to return. He wants all the smooth, bro.

Battlebeast is pretty. I don't know too much about Battlebeats. I don't know something at that one episode, you know, I have to still reading the Invisible Series. So Battlebeast was pretty strong. All right, best side character. Cecil, Damien, Darkblood, the Guardians, either, iteration of the Guardians. Alan, robot, or

the Teen Team? Who do you guys' best side character? Oh, got to be robot. Gotta be Rudy. He had the most interesting, the most interesting story. Like, my man, you think he's a robot, and then you realize, no, he's like this weird alien fetus, and he just wants to be human, the whole Pinocchio

story. How could you not love him? I am a sucker. If you're a sucker for fathers and sons, I'm a sucker for, like, Pinocchio stories. Like, I just want to be a real boy gets me every single fucking time. Like you like AI? Wait, I've never seen AI.

I don't like, yeah. Watch the first half. Watch the Kubrick half. Don't watch the, you don't have to watch the Spielberg half. Got, wait. All right, cool, cool. I got you. I got you. I got you.

It's not bad. Not bad. Who's your favorite side character? I go with Damon Darkblood. I thought he was very cool. Came in and he was putting everything together. He was pulling strings. Hellboy, you're riding for Hellboy.

Costco Hellboy? I'm writing for Costco Hellboy. I like Costco Hellboy. I thought Costco Hellboy did a good job. Can I like what I like? No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're being very vilcharmitish right now.

Like, let me be a person. But yeah, I liked him. I thought that he's an underrated character because through his snooping around, he's really the person that got Omneman off of Earth because he pulled the shroud down. Debbie saw Omneman, which then led to Mark seeing Omniband, which led to Omniband, which led to Omniban leaving. and now us not knowing what the status of everything is. So I thought he was a very important character. I really liked him.

All right. Best dramatic moment. Omneman kills the Guardians. Omneman versus Invincible. Robot changes bodies. Omneman leaves Earth. Or is there another dramatic moment? I think this was pretty much a shoe-in for the most dramatic moment.

I think this whole episode, I think Mark, the Mark and Omni Man, not the fight, but Omneman going down. back realizing what it is to be a father. Mark saying like, yo, I would still have you after 500 years to me. Got to, like, that's easily the best dramatic moment of the whole season. Easy, easy, easy, that that's the best dramatic moment. That's like one of the best dramatic moments I've seen in animated superhero fair in a very, very, very long time. If we can, I'm going to throw in another award, all right, for the to get Twitter going. We've gone through Wanda Vision. we've gone through Falcon and the Winter Soldier,

we got invincible. Who gets the MVP award? In this season? Of all of those three shows that we've seen so far. Not best, but most valuable player did the most with what they were given. I gotta be honest with you.

By the criteria that you just put out, shout out to Isaiah Thomas, the criteria. With the criteria you just put out, I go with John Walker. I thought the character of John Walker slash U.S. agent

and the Falcon and the Winter Soldier did the most with what they had. It was to me the character that grounded that show and rained that show back in. Wanda Vision, I'd say, doesn't really have very many MVPs that could, like, you know, you have Agnes,

you have obviously Wanda, but the show itself was a true ensemble to me in terms of, it wasn't really, It wasn't a true ensemble in terms of screen time, but it was a true ensemble in terms of energy. We just didn't know enough about what was going on for anyone to really carry too much weight. I don't feel like Wanda did.

I really don't because she was in the dark half the time or pretending like she was in the dark half the time of what was happening. But I would go with John Walker. What about you? Who would you go with? This cheating a little bit, but I got to give my MVP award to Robert Kirkman.

You know, it's hard. It's hard to win that first ring. And he won that first ring with Walking Be. dead. I would say it's even harder to win that second ring. To reach the summit once again. And he had Walking Dead. And to get people to care about Invincible, which was never like a blockbuster show. I mean, a blockbuster comic, all new characters animated, 45 minutes, that's a lot. Like, this is something that we've never really seen. And for him to go back and do it twice, I got to give it up to my man. Yeah, you said you're cheating a little. The reality, the

is you cheated a fucking ton. If I had to do something because you asked for MVP and then you gave out the coach of the year award. All right. So I'm going to give my MVP then. Who's the MVP of the league this year? I think that it should

be Monty Williams. All right. I'll give you the in universe. In universe MVP, I think I got to go with J.K. Simmons. I think I got to go with Armyman. That's a good one. J.K. Simmons. because it's like J.K. Simmons just what he gave

to make me feel that much for an animated character. I think weirdly, J.K. Simmons did the best acting and he wasn't even on screen. I couldn't agree more. I think he was fantastic. He was given the least in terms of just like, like he has to make you care about a new character that many people haven't read and make you, by the end,

be like, damn, where are you men? Like, is he going to be back season two? Like, we got to give it up to JK. Come on now. Got to give it up to JK. Got to give it up. Okay. Last one.

Best episode of the season. What do you feel like the best episode of the season was? Best episode. And I think it's the last one. I think this is, we talk about landings, you know,

and I don't think it's any surprise to the listeners. I don't think we were a fan of the Wanda Vision finale. I don't think we were that big of fans of the Falcon and the Winter Soldier finale. And of course, Invincible is a little bit more accurate to the source material. Sure. But if we're talking about who did the Landon,

who stuck it. You know what I'm saying? Who brought it all home? It's Invincible, this finale. Because it took me a hater who was just like, man, the animation ain't really what I want. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And by the end of this episode, I'm like, God damn, they did the thing. They did the thing.

So it has to be the season finale for me. I agree. I think it's the season finale. I do think that Invincible had sort of less variability between the episodes. They were all very, very high. They weren't very many bad ones. There's only one that I really was. kind of like that was just okay.

But, so yeah, it was a very high bar, but I think the last one was probably the best one, too. It was just breathtaking, breathtaking, breathtaking, animation, breathtaking animation, television. I loved it. I loved it. All right. Okay, guys, we are done with Invincible. Midnight Boys are done with Invisible. However, up next in the Ring of Verse,

Amelie Rubin in the House of Mal, we'll be diving deep into the premiere of Bad Batch on May the Fourth. May the Fourth be with you. Exactly. You're going to have to, I don't know, What the fuck you just did? That was my, that was my lightsaber.

What's your lightsaber? Charles. That's my lightsaber cell. Charles, do the lightsaber sound again. Charles. Dog, it's 6.30 for me, bro. I don't know, Charles, no. You're acting like 630 is late.

I go to bed at like 10.30. I go to bed early too, Charles. but I don't know why your lightsaber sound sounds like Alf and ET fucking on a goddamn extraterrestrial I don't know why

that's not what a lightsaber sounds like this boom but when they hit each other that's a light saber then when they clash is like boom okay well yeah that's actually way better that's way better than what I do

I don't know what the fuck you got going on I'm going to be honest with you. Jesus. Follow Reger first. At Rigervorce on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Follow and share the show. We're coming back.

We got five weeks, man, until Loki debuts. And we are going to find a way to bring you guys the Midnight Boys every Friday anyway. We're going to do something. We got a couple of things. a couple of ideas brewing about how we stay relevant out there when we're in between

MCU shows, but what we're not in between is beautiful fandom projects because there is stuff dropping every single day, every single week, and we're going to be right here to wake up and do it. Charles, you got an outro for us? No, I do. Roses are red and violets are blue. The Midnight Boys are back, baby. That's the best one yet. We out. You know I'd be a terrible bitch, Biltramite? Why?

This is Charles Corner. When I was a kid, I was on the wrestling team. And I was completely middle of the road. I did not have the fighter spirit in me at all, bro. Were you middle of the road, though? I was. Third place, third place. Were you even the middle?

I don't know if you were the middle. I wasn't the worst on the team, but I definitely wasn't the best. And you know, like, I was so middle of the road that gave me a nickname that called me Hurricane Holmes. And my coach was so mad at me. He was so mad at them because, like, you do a chant before you go out on the mat. And as a prank, they all started calling me Hurricane Holmes.

And my coach, like, pulls me before I go out of my match. He's like, yo, if you lose this shit, don't even come back to the bench. Get your ass out of here. So I ran out there. That was the only time I had pinned somebody so fast. All the hot girls were watching. I was like, dog, y'all, I ain't getting beat in the locker room over this. So I'd know full well if I was on Viltramite.

they'd all be like, damn, like, should we kill him or should he come along? I'm like, dog, y'all are you from? Where are you from again? Jersey Shore. I'm trying to think what geographical place you could be from where the hot girls come to high school wrestling matches. Like, we didn't even realize. They didn't come. Like, you know, you had the hot girls who were like, who would be like the managers of the fucking team. Oh, see, I don't know nothing about that.

Like, wrestling is something that football players did to piss off the coach in Louisiana. It was like, yo, I'm going to be on a wrestling team. What's your wrestling for?