The Ringer-Verse - 'Invincible' Season 2, Episode 5 and 'Shogun' Episode 4 Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

The boys return from Viltrum to discuss the long-awaited return of 'Invincible' Season 2 (13:07). They break down why the continuation of this season may feel a little off given that there was such a long time away between episodes. Later, they break down their thoughts on the latest episode of 'Shogun' and discuss how this show is operating on such a high level (58:26). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have news shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackauer to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. Join us on the press box.

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Welcome into the ringerverse. This is, of course, the ringer's nexus podcast, feed for all things. We are. Join me to explainer at dinner on your recommendations. He's going to answer. We are, Steve, the architect, all the builder and tigger of things. We are old man, man. He of the receding resurgent.

hairline. We are Coke, baby, Chuck, the 24-carric closure, aka the brunch hotty together. We are known as a of the midnight boys. Follow us on socials. Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok. Maybe not for long, buddy.

Maybe not for long, buddy. Maybe save Jomey's job. Jome Skittle. I'm taking an attacking. What's going to happen? Joe me and Joe Biden versus each other. You're going to go to the White House? See, it's not me versus Joe Biden.

It's me versus Mark Zuckerberg, and I think it's over. Like, he's just got more money to me. So you think it's Zucks that messed over? I mean, he's absolutely. This is a deep shadow campaign to get rid of TikTok? Think about it. If we get off TikTok, we got to go to Reels, right? Man.

IG, he is spending bread right now. Like, hey, guys, we got to get this TikTok thing out of here. I haven't followed this as much as I should. As a matter of fact, the last time. we did this on higher learning, we should probably get a guess for tomorrow, because the last time we did this on higher learning, I talked a little bit about some of the security issues with TikTok

and got fucking crushed by people who said, Van is a fucking talking head for the other tech competitors of TikTok, and I don't know, I'm not on TikTok, so I don't know. I mean, it is wild that, you know, you can make a social media, app that can destroy American democracy and you just can be like in Japan making swords and everybody's like it's fine

like everybody freaking out about TikTok I'm like here all the social media apps track our shit and brainwash us no but it's different but it's like but if it's China doing it it's China they're like America here's the thing if I'm in the government

I'm just like whoa whoa whoa these are our people we brainwash them yes yes that's our job you can't do that you know it's like one like somebody make fun of one of your friends are like, yo, if you're not really,

you can't say that about my homie like that. But if it's me, I can do it out what I want. We want to be in your reply saying pussy and bio, not the fucking Chinese. Pussy and bio got to stop, bro. It's so annoying.

Brucy and bio got it. Oh my God. But Twitter really sucks now. It's the worst. It's never been a great app. I've been off since last year and I'm so happy. It's never been great. Ever since Elon Muskrat bought the app,

it's been the worst. thing in the world. It's so funny, like, they'll put videos up, that historic vids page. Oh, my God. Dude. The historic vid's page just puts up a video of Spider-Man 2 and goes, this is the craziest vid you've ever seen. And then

I watch it, and I'm like, yo, this is seen from the Amazing Spider-Man, like, what's so crazy about it? And then as soon as I look through the rest of the replies, I'm looking at the replies, and the replies are, uh, fucking goat plays with, with puppy dog, fucking, and then

pussy and buyer. Honestly, I had to unfollow that one. I don't even know what the name of it was, but the nigger who posted the video of the baby monkey getting eaten by the Jaguar, they post a bunch of them like... Yeah, I couldn't do it. What is it happening on this app now?

You don't know about the Monday that got? I've been on Twitter for months. I should only want to talk about that. That was so sad. It was so sad. Yeah, it was just... That was so sad. But look, hey, if you can't follow us on TikTok

anymore in the next coming weeks, make sure to follow us on Twitter. and on Instagram. We got some good stuff coming for you. Not Facebook? Not the Facebook group? I mean, y'all can add it if y'all want. You know what I'm saying?

I don't really. That's on y'all. Like, I don't, look, let's Facebook group. The Facebook group. Let's pull back the curtain real quick. Guys, I'm not on there. You don't see me on there. I'm on there all time. Y'all run y'all gambits.

Every time, I might, like, just ding, every, like, one or two days, I'll be like, well, let me get this notification badge off my Facebook. Go see what's going on. If y'all report some, I'll be like, all right, let's take a look. Other than that, if you think I'm reading every comment, read every post, ah. Yeah, it's not it.

It's very clear that it's unmoderated. The Facebook group is actually, so the Facebook group used to be the group that was by far the most toxic. And the Reddit was fucking with us. Has it switched? Oh, my God, it has switched. Oh, really? Really? The Facebook group is having consistently, I love both groups.

by the way. Of course. I love the discourse. But the Facebook group is having consistently, it seems like, more level-headed discourse about things. And the Reddit is just out for blood these last couple of months.

The Reddit is, but we get so much good interaction from both groups. Like, we get so much good conversation that I love them both. Is the conversation good? It's good to me.

I'm not precious about it. You know what I mean? Like, let them talk their shit. But, Facebook has actually become less less like problematic

and Reddit has just become we fucking hate the midnight boys I love it get your shit off fuck them get your shit off guys talk your shit we talk our shit

you talk your shit okay look oh you gotta remind me you know what I want to do something I want to going forward

when we go into program reminders I want to want nickelback. This is how you remind me. This is how you remind me of my program is on. This is how you remind me of what program is on. Oh, I like that. Yeah.

All right. This week, the House of R will give you their live show from South by Southwest. Me and Joe and now we're at South by on Saturday. We sat down. They ate tacos. tacos, I had a juice. We talked for about four hours. What a delightful group of friends you were?

I mean, we have to be real when Van came back with the fucking cowboy boots and the cowboy hat. You couldn't tell this motherfucker anything. I really was like, I can't be around. I want to be a part of this movement. I want us all to be like this. So here's the thing, right?

We go out Sunday to celebrate Chords. Oh, congratulations. Congrats to cord. We're out there. I show up to the bar a little late. I see, Charles and Kalika talking.

I'm like, all right, so that's where everybody's at. Show up. Van. He's got the hat on. He's got the boots on. We moved to another, to the spot. And he's trying to impart wisdom on us. No joke. I have the picture on my phone.

I'll probably post it after this. And try to impart wisdom. He takes a chair out. Yep. puts his leg on the chair. Just the belt thing. He's like, listen, listen, guys. Let me tell you something.

It was the biggest, like, he's been waiting to do this. Since he got the cowboy I'm a cowboy. It's ridiculous. Coming this Friday in the 2023 Verses, super excited about that. We're gonna...

Can you not be an asshole there? Read it normally. Friday of Verses, we're going to give you all the best awards from 2023. And on Sunday,

the House of R will give you their Character Hall of Fame on Paula Trades. What exactly is the Character Hall of Fame again? Basically talking about the famous arc that he has throughout the Dune books

and kind of like talking about characters that have he has influenced throughout stories. So I am now, let me look at it right now, I'm on chapter 21 of Dune. How are you feeling about it? Just give us your instant, like, this is how I'm feeling about the books so far. Okay, this is what I'll say about the books, the book, because I'm listening to it, right? So when you're reading the book of Dune, it's actually, people told me that it was dense and it was hard to understand. It's actually not true. And I'll tell you why.

The princess, the emperor's daughter, basically runs it down. She chronicles the rise and fall of Paula Trade. Yeah. And she basically, and obviously I've seen the movie, so there's points of reference there. But before she talks about the doctor, she comes on and says, hey, this is the story of his kind of little treachery. and this is Lido Atreides and all of this stuff. So it's actually very easy to follow because it's almost told,

but remember the story's being told to me because I'm listening to it on the audio book, in a very encyclopedic way. It gets run down as a chronicle of all, this is the chronicle of the Muaydib and all in this and this and that. And then the plot gets filled in and all of these characters have their own stories

and their own POVs. And the world, obviously, it's a book, is so much richer. Now, having gotten to the point to where I understand why everything I said was bullshit, but maybe at the end of the book, I'll get there. I'm just being for real. Everyone said, hey, Van,

if you want a deeper understanding of Dune, read the book. So I'm traveling around a lot. I put the book in my thing. People, hey, Van, how you doing? No, fuck you. I'm listening to Dune. Fuck you. I'm listening to Dune.

So I'm doing it, but I'm really enjoying listening to Dune. It's a great audiobook, too. It does that thing where like every character kind of has their own narrator and their own voice. It's kind of done like a radio play a little bit. Like major characters have their own actors, and I love that when a one does that. I never want to talk about Dune again.

Yeah, no, you're over. I mean, the last thing I will say about Dune is I'm still coming down from the Oscars, Javier, think he might be in the running for Best Support. It is the funniest thing. Every single time I watch the video, Lisa Ragh. It's the one when he wins the knife fight and he just like,

Lisa! Like just automatically, he couldn't wait to nut. Just automatically he wins a night fight. He's not all got you. He's struggling to get the words out of his mouth. He needs to say it that fast. He's crazy. He struggling to get what?

The words out of his mouth. Wow, chummy. All right. Struggling to get out of his mouth. Okay, cool. On today, we give our reactions to the return of Invincible Season 2. Invincible Season 2, the second part, is upon us. and the latest episode of

Shoggan Shogun Okay Is it Okay real quick I'm saying Shogun Like I'm fucking Like it's the last dragon

It's Shogun right I don't I'm not Shogun but like It's you're saying Oh See See

See Can you play the drums for that? I don't think I can't play the drums for that. See it's technically so What's fucking I didn't mean to well, actually. You asked. And it's bad because you put a little spice on it.

You put way too much spice on it. You put way too much spice on it. You couldn't let him have it. Steve, your birthright, I can't wait to see. It's going to be so funny. Like when I'm in my mid-50s to see where Steve is, I guarantee you, Steve is super problematic at 43. It's going to be so crazy.

Like you wouldn't be keeping tabs on me when I'm 43. No, no, we'll still be, like I said, I'm looking forward to seeing the Steve who is like the Tim Cook. Oh, my God. Tim, Jesus. Welcome to Spotify. You have all new innovations that are coming. I'll turn into the sandworm myself. Like, exactly.

Steve will be fucking part android. Like, you know what I mean? He's going into the Elon Musk singularity. Steve might be running Tesla. That's probably what you're, what you're, what you're, which your future is, you bitch you. All right. Spoiler warning for Invisible and for Shogh.

We're getting ready to talk about Invincible. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right. No reaction is complete without putting you in the know. The only person who can do that is Chuck. The only way to do that is the Midnight Manifest. All right, guys, this is your mini midnight manifest for the return of Invincible,

which is back for the last four episodes of the second season. in, this episode is titled, This Must Come As a Shock, written by Helen Lay, directed by Haley Herrick. We begin on Thraxa, where Mark helps them rebuild from the Viltramite attack, and Dressa, the mother of Mark's new brother, asked her stepson to take the purple baby back to Earth with him. Gone for two months, Mark's mom, friends, Amber, and Cecil all have opinions on his long sojourn. A horde of mind-controling aliens, though, are headed to Earth, which is disrupting Invincible's life even further. He partners with the Guardians of the Globe and Adam Eve, where he leaves Earth again to stop this invasion.

Meanwhile, duplicate and tricking Ray are seemingly killed in a botched mission led by Rex Blode. And then Alan wakes up from his coma where Thaddeus, the leader of the coalition of planets, reveals to him that he is indeed a viltramite. And that has been your midnight manifest for the return of Invincible. Then, let's go. All right, let's get into it. Chuck, so.

No, I want, don't throw it to me because you had a very visceral reaction to this return. And I think we, I want to begin with what you thought. Okay, that's fine. I love Invincible, love the show. This was a enjoyable episode of television to watch. I feel like Invincible is doing so much now to where it's all over the place. There was a lot in this episode, man. Like, so much to where at times I was like, whoa.

and maybe this has to do more with them taking a little break and having to get reacclimated to everything but even parts of last season they're doing more I didn't read the comic books they're doing more than just telling Mark's story and that's fine but sometimes I just think I don't know I the show is not waxed But I was a little bit, I felt like I was drowning in story a little bit.

Well, they didn't do the thing that a lot of these TV shows do when they take a break, which is they kind of like give you a ramp to get back onto the story. And this very much just felt like this was supposed to just be another episode in season two. Like there is no middle like split in you watching this. And as someone who read the comic books and like understands all these characters where they're going, even I was a little bit like, all right, so we have Mark's fucking storyline, we have the Guardians of the Globe,

we have Adam Eve, we have Cecil and Robot Man. And yeah. And it's just like, we got amb, it's like, it was so much shit happening. Mark's mom with the kid and all that.

And that's a perfect nugget of story if the through line is like what Mark was happening with Mark. And it's kind of not right now. No, because even when they were cutting in between scenes, some of the cuts were so jarring where I'm like, wait, what the fuck is happening?

Yeah. Like, the one that I remember that kind of took me out of it is, I think, like, Cecil is explaining to Mark basically how he fucked up by being gone for two months. And then they just keep showing this fight that the Guardians of the Globe had either, like, months ago. And I'm like, wait, what? And then they just flash back to another scene.

And I'm like, I've read the comic book, guys. You need to slow down. Because I do think that what I realized in this episode is that, in a comic book, you can have these many storylines. Like, this happens in like Spider-Man or whatever. Mary Jane's doing something. Harry Osworn's doing something. But it's a comic book.

You flip it, and it's just like, it took me 30 seconds to read. In a TV show where the most central thing, especially since this is a cartoon, is like Mark is a relationship with his father, the Viltramite War, all of this stuff. Because you have like five, six, seven, eight other storylines going on, I do think it is a little bit much. And like even if you think about Game of Thrones,

Game of Thrones, it works for something like that because it is live action where it's like you do, I think, have probably a deeper emotion with the characters. In a cartoon, there is a level of them like,

oh, they're writing this like, this is live action, but it's not. Charles, you've read the comics, I have read the comics. Jummy, you've read the comics. Yes. The world of invincible in the comics,

like as you've been going, as you read it, it grew very fast. Yes. Exponentially. And to its credit, it's a very interesting world with a lot of interesting

characters and stories to tell. I feel like this show, especially in the second half of this season, is very aware about all of the bases that this universe can potentially cover. And I think it literally has too much dip on the chip to actually make it happen.

And I think that this is like a big problem that I might have with the rest of the season going forward is this could actually be Amazon's like animated the boys like a universe that could spread out into like multiple spin-off shows different storylines and many things like there's no central focus and it has like the potential to actually lose the plot

a lot because there's a lot to still happen just with Mark in his immediate circle very quickly like based on the trajectory of the story I don't know if like the bad thing is going to happen in this season or not which I will not spoil especially for Van or anybody else that doesn't know about, but when I say the bad thing, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm very

curious as to see what they might be rushing to. Yeah. Because they are rushing towards something. I think I know what they're rushing to. But, I mean, as for this episode, I liked it. You know, I think it was a lot. But I think what the problem is, and Charles alluded to

it, is that the show takes like a two-and-a-half-month break, right? this is supposed to be episode this is episode five in an eight episode series we're supposed to get this a week after episode four

after two months we kind of don't have the juice like that you know so it comes back and it's throwing a whole bunch of stuff at you like whoa whoa whoa whoa so down we we just got here you know what I'm saying I think that's the problem

with this episode is that again I enjoyed it but I understand why some people come back and be like yo what what's all this because after being gone for that long It's like, bro, let us get back to what we know. Let us, like, reacclimate with the story. Just like, Mark gets back from attraction and it's just like on 10 as soon as he, as soon as he touches down.

It's kind of nuts, but I didn't mind it. So once again, have fun. But. Not a terrible episode. Yeah. Yeah. So to your Game of Thrones point, there's something else about Game of Thrones and the different storylines that the show experimented with or that all came together to make the one show.

The thing is, it was united by the fact that all the characters wanted the same thing. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, the common goal of it all. Like, everybody seems cast to the wind in this. Right. So with Game of Thrones, you could go to Stannis, and you can go to his brother, you can go to the Lannisters, you can go to the, they're all kind of surrounded around one thing that kind of unites the story. So you're just looking at people who have different understandings,

who have different customs, who live in different places, but they're all laying claim to something. It all revolves around one thing. In this, these storylines are not at all adjoined. They're like different people. And that's fine. It's like, it's, and so, I mean, to me, they aren't. Joe, me, you feel like I'm wrong?

I mean, yes and no, because I see what you're saying, like the Guardians of the Globe like so duplicate shrinking Ray and Rexpload are only left alone because they have to go to space to fight the aliens right or the Martian aliens

whatever and then you have I think I think it's like loosely connected it's not as connected as Game of Thrones so you're right you have a point but I do think there's like a very like I want to say like a loose tie

I get what you're saying that everything has everybody is reacting to something that's happening all in the same world. What I'm saying is, is with Mark's story being so compelling to me, for so many different reasons, the fatherhood aspect of it, the new family aspect of it.

All of the Viltramite, like, drama that is tied to him. He just had to fight, you know, people from his, it's so compelling that I'm like, I just want to know what happens with Mark. And Mark, to me is the reason why I'm looking at the show in the first season of the show

dealt with a lot of things, but it was Mark's story with learning so much about his world, about expanding his world and all of that. And look, even the first half of this, right? You had a whole part with Alan, which was great, right? I want to know what's up with that. A whole part with Alan, which was great. You had the weird, multiversal guy that we saw that...

Thanks from Levy. Yeah, that hasn't really come back. So, like, you... So there's a lot of stuff that... going on and I get it. But just coming back to it in this first episode, I kind of was like, oh, my God. Like, what am I supposed to care about?

You know? And they were jumping around. Like, the robot guy having a robot body and all of that stuff, that's dope. But, like, we don't need that right now. What's happening with the goddamn new kid, the purple kid that's in there? Right. The mom has to raise the purple kid.

This is the cinema that I've signed up for. Even, like, even when, like, the alien bug lady is basically, like, explaining, like, what type of mother would I be? So great. All that shit. I'm just like, and this is how I felt during,

because I was reading Invincible monthly. So like I would have to wait a month and a lot of times it got fucking, it wouldn't come out on time. So like two, three months to get the next installment. And I remember feeling this way about the comics where I'm like, I care about fucking Mark. Like I care about Mark is dad when the Viltramites are coming.

Because like the compelling thing about it is like, how is Earth even going to protect itself if all these Viltermites are out there and y'all couldn't even fight against one Omni Man. You know what I'm saying? And the fact that you just have to wait so long, I do think in TV at least, releases a lot of the tension and a lot of the things that would like make you want to be like, oh, I want to watch the next episode. And look, they're going to get to all of this. We're just talking about the first episode when it comes back. They're going to get to all of this.

even the gigantic thread that Mark has been made responsible for finishing the mission of his father. Yeah. Like, all of that stuff is the stuff that I really, really care about. I love Adam. I love the characters that they have,

but I love them insofar as they support his stories. But, yeah, and that's the, like, again, the main draw has always been Mark. And to the show's, credit, it has seemingly always tried to center it back to him. Like, even as, like, bumpy as this second season has been, the most compelling stuff has been when we've had, like, large POV episodes, like, surrounding Mark.

I don't think that the show is, like, necessarily going to lose its way on the eve of that, but, like, I'm very confused. And it makes me, and it gives me the question as to why this was such a long. break in between mid-season checkpoints. That's a great question. Because to know that we're resuming back to this, did we only have a split

because we had a cliffhanger-ish to end on before? I think it was all production. I think it was all just like they did not have enough time to get all eight episodes done. And like Amazon was probably like, we need to get this back up on air. Right. So, yeah, I think, I don't want to say rush it out,

but they definitely like put, It feels strategic. Here's the thing, though. You know, like what? We're going to get all eight episodes, what, like two years almost after the first one came out? We can't, we can't operate like this. Like, it's just, I don't want to say untenable, but like, there's no, there's no momentum. There's no juice for the show when it's coming out.

Hey, man, we don't know. I guess it's following in the roots of the comics. Right? Where you just like, hey, we get it when we get it. We get it when we get it, which is like fun, but like, bro, it's not like succession, man. It's not Game of Thrones. Even Game of Thrones came out yearly.

You know what I mean? It's just, it takes all the moe from the show. And at the end of the day, it's like, all right, cool. We go and watch it when it's there, but I'm not excited when, when episode eight comes out. And we're like, wow, this is crazy. One C's three coming out. I mean, I, I believe Stephen June

kind of alluded to it. Like I was reading something where he was basically like, yeah, we're already working on it. We kind of, we understand what the break did. I want to ask this,

because I was thinking from it from a story perspective, because Invincible is, I think what people fell in love with during that first season is once you get that big twist, that Omni Man is evil, beats up Mark, whatever.

To me, like, not to bring it back to throne, but that is very much like a Thrones level twist where you're like, wait, what? Like, he's about to kill his son? Van, do you think that in season two, the show has done enough to basically, like, give us something on that level again,

tension-wise, structurally story-wise, to be like, this is just as exciting because I do think that, like, that's what people who are watching it are waiting for, they're waiting for that. Like, what's the next twist? and Succession had this a little bit that's going to keep me

invested in it because I haven't really honestly seen it yet, really? So a lot of times what shows have to do is decide whether or not they're going to stay intimate or whether or not they're going to expand their world. After the show runs long enough,

you almost have to expand the world, right? You don't have like a choice. And Game of Thrones did a great job of doing that. If you look at the first season of Game of Thrones and then you look at subsequent seasons, they expanded the world a great deal, right? And they weren't going to have to. The thing here from first season to second season with Invincible

is that it was unclear what the show was going to be about other than Mark. So the trick was to make the show about something other than Mark, which I thought the first batch of episodes did well because remember there was this dystopian future where mark was trying to kill people with omneman and there was this understanding that maybe he his him gaining power brought some sort of cataclysm yeah you know what I mean and so maybe you're working towards that because the first show was about him understanding how to be a superhero right it's about him dealing with his father and then how his world gets reshaped.

Now he's going to college. If this whole thing would have been about Mark juggling this with college, if they did a whole Spider-Man thing, that would be different. If it was about Mark reuniting with his parents, with his father, should I say, raising the kid with mom, that would be a thing. But it seems like they're putting their foot on the gas, expand the world now. And what I don't know is if we've gotten our 50s.

of what the characters want and what's supposed to happen. Like, what's, who's the big bad? What's the pressing danger? You can't do a slice of life with 10 different lives. If you're going to do a slice of life superhero show, it can only be,

in my opinion, like one or two people's lives. I'm sure this is coming, right? Because we got three more episodes. I'm sure they're going to tie everything up and this whole thing is coming. But we are getting to a point now to where it's kind of just shit happening. To your point, when the Omneman thing

gave that season a North Star to where every single episode you're thinking, how's he going to deal with this? Yeah. Like when he finds this out or when this becomes obvious to him, there's a whole investigation into it, who killed the gardens of the globe.

How's he going to deal with this? I'm kind of not sure what we're waiting for in this episode. I'm kind of not sure what, excuse me, in this season, I'm kind of not sure, like, what the thing is. And the break only made that more staccato. A lot of words to say that. Not spoilers, but I do think that, like, this is from reading it monthly,

this was like an issue that I think people actually had with it because like the sales for Invincible were never gangbusters like obviously after the Omneman shit happens like that shit was on the bubble before that happens and then people like oh Invincible I want to see this story and then with Engstrom and kind of Viltermites and not knowing like who's leading them all this stuff I will say the series does end up finding a North Star villain again it's gonna get there but it is very much like this is an American comic book thing where it's just like Spider-Man is going to fight you vet him, and then you kind of have like a three-issue arc where it's like...

But it's actually, it's also not about who they're fighting. It's about why they're fighting them. That is fair. So it, so that's kind of the thing. And that's what it's building up to. It's about why they're fighting. And this, by the way, to be honest with you, to be fair to the show, as far as what Jomi is saying,

this might have been just every time you get a show, whether the show is good or bad, it's like an episode that's like a breather episode. they have these in every show. They'll do some big thing to where it's like, oh my God, is this person going to die? Are they dead?

And you think you're going to find out the next episode and you don't find out. You go on some other journey with somebody else. They take a breather to play out the drama to the end of the season, right? This might have been that episode.

The only problem is, like Jomi was saying, is that it's a premiere of the second part of the season so you're expecting something different from it. So that might actually be the biggest thing that we're talking about is that this might have not actually been structured to be a premiere type episode.

It might be just an episode where, hey, you just got this gigantic action sequence. You just got all this understanding about the viltramites and all of this. This is just an episode where we're going to take a breather and then the last three we're going to get back to cooking. But it comes after a way to feel a little odd. But you can do that with a premiere episode.

Like, I get what you're saying. They didn't probably plan this to be a premiere, but you usually are expecting, like, because you have to think where we left off, fucking Omneman got taken away. Mark is beat up to shit. Now he basically is, like, there's a ticking time clock of just like,

when are the Viltermites going to visit Earth and basically be like, yo, Mark, like, what's happening? And I'm just like, this episode probably didn't do, because, like, if we're being real, this episode had nothing to do. with the big trouble that Mark is in right now with the vilter mites. It had everything to do with like the smaller stuff.

Like, how are we going to raise this baby? How is Mark going to be with this girlfriend? Which is like cool. But that's some shit that I'm like, we can get to that later. Mark, you better get into the gym because these viltramites are about to whoop in your fucking ass. But look, Invincible continues to be a show that's really, really enjoyable. That's a really fun show to watch. I just happened to like the show

for human reasons. Like, for example, some of the things resonate with me. I remember this scene, I hope she doesn't get mad. I remember watching my mother like look after my dad's young son.

Like my father, before he passed away, my younger brother Gavin was born in like Christmas Eve 2011. And I remember just there being a circumstance where my mom had to look after him. He's with my sister. And my sister stops over to my mother's house. My sister has to go somewhere, blah, blah, blah. And I come over to the house.

And my mom is like looking after my dad. Son, I remember watching her just be like a lady. How can I put this? She was like her maternal instincts. just took over. Yeah. How difficult the situation was for her, it wasn't paramount. Like her maternal instincts, just, oh, little innocent, three-year-old, four-year-old baby or whatever he was,

just needs, just wants to, it might have been younger than that, wants to smile and wants something to eat and wants to go to sleep. Her maternal instincts just, just like took over. And I was like, I remember coming in and be like, oh, shit, I'm her, your brother's sleep. And I'm like, my brother, And I'm like, oh my God, what the fuck is this? Because, you know what I mean? I wouldn't, I wouldn't, if she did like keep that little nigga outside and be like, yeah, walk to the stove, I would have been like, cool,

that makes a lot of sense. You're not sure. But, and so when I see that, like, in the comic book, I'm so, that's the part of this show, the father's son thing, the Mark having to save the world thing, how Mark's powers are elevating and getting stronger. how that, all that stuff that surrounds his world, is kind of what I'm watching the show for.

And so some of the other stuff bogs me down a little bit. I mean, I will say even the Amber part, because, like, that's such a true. Like, I think why I fell in love with the Invincible Comics is, like, Robert Kirkman is very good at human emotions. And it's like, when Mark comes back and he wants to tell Amber about everything that's happened, the stakes are galactic. They are personal.

And she's just, like, she's trying her best to be a girl and then she's like, yeah, but like, you know, what? Her grandfather died, I think. Like, I lost my grandfather. You were gone for two months. It's embarrassing having to tell, like, all my college friends that I have a boyfriend that they haven't met for two months. I'm like, that's such a human thing where I was like, to the show's credit, even as the

story is getting bigger, there are those moments where you're just like, oh, to, like, Van's point, man, I've seen that situation where it's like, oh, a woman has to take care of a child that's not her own because like for a variety of reasons and you got Mark just sitting there being like

I know what's fucked up and the mom is like like she like Debbie in that point does a thing that a lot of moms do every single fucking day where it's like I'm going to sacrifice my happiness and my ego and my respect

so my son can do what he needs to do to live the best way possible and I'm like oh shit like that is the heart of this show but sometimes you know also I need to just see the Viltramites, if I'm going to be real. I mean, you could spend time with Debbie, you know, worrying about her son and now a new baby,

or worried about Amber and Mark's relationship, or you can spend time with Donald, worrying about am I a robot? Oh, man, we got to kick that shit. I don't care. Here's the thing. I don't care. It's about human emotion. It's interesting to see, like, hey, man, am I real?

Am I alive? What does it mean to be somebody who died and came back? Interesting, thought line, interesting, plot line. We don't need that in this show. No, we don't need this. No, because here's my thing with that. That storyline, everybody in this show sometimes acts like an idiot, where Cecil is like, yeah, we knew he was a Martian,

but we really didn't follow up. I'm like, nigger, a Martian comes to Earth. And you're like, yeah, let's just let him on the biggest superhero team. And then they're like, the aliens are coming to destroy us. I'm like, you know, like, what are we doing? Well, so here's the thing, right? Not to defend, you know, Ben Schwartz, shout out to him. But Russ Livingston, he's to birth, he's cosplaying as Russ Livingston.

And he's like, yo, he's, he dead. I thought the humans or the Martians would have got him and killed him. Nope, it was the secuids. My bad. So, like, it is his fault. But it's also, you know, he did have a good explanation for it. The Guardians of the Globe are terrible. They are quite little bit.

Like, it's just. Bottom five a lot. I honestly understand why Cecil is constantly mad at Mark for not being around. Because I'm like, if I got to trust in the fucking immortal and duplicate to save me. Immortal is just a living L. Just no no dubs whatsoever He was getting busy last last season Nah

When he was in the shower When Okay well that's different That's not the same I've seen him get Piced up by Omneman two times He came back though All right cool

See y'all don't have any That's because y'all so young Y'all don't have any respect for durability No I like a motherfucker that's just around You know, wasn't he Abraham Lincoln? Creeping on fucking young women, immortal? Creeping on young women.

What are you talking about? He can't date anybody that's not younger to him. What is he supposed to do? What is he supposed to do? He's not Dreia. Like he, like, everybody's going to be younger. Who was in the Nick Young? That shit, the Nick Young being.

Nah, we can't. They can't do that. We can't do that, brus. What happened? Oh, geez, man. It's fun to do jokes, but that's not. Come on, Nick. Come on, no, no.

I was just like, come on, bro. This is so corny. That's nasty word. It's real bad. Back to Invincible. So, look, this is me saying that I am, I love the Invisible cartoon. Let me just say sometimes. We were talking about Invincible and everything that went on and everything that happened.

And I hope that the craves of the show know this, right? Because we talk about Invisible and like, where it lives for us during the time that the show first came out there was this blissful surprise about it for people that weren't familiar

with the comic about how good it was, how different it was, the brutality of it, but also the sincerity of the show and like I said, the intimacy of the show

was really about relationships coming of age and all of that stuff. So they have, it's great, going to be more difficult as the show moves forward for it to retain some of the reasons why it was successful before and also continue to add. So some of this is to be expected, but the creators of the show cannot, A, take as big of a break

as they took before, and it cannot be break up the show in two different parts of a season because that makes what they have to do and telling a bigger story just that much harder. Because if there's a tonal shift in it, it's much more jarring after you haven't seen it in a while. If you do that inside of a season,

that's one thing. But if you come back and it feels like a different show or it feels like a show about something different, it's going to be a lot more pronounced the longer we've been away from it. And I think that's really what we're talking about. about right now. Invincible will be fine.

Like we've always read it. I don't, I didn't hate the episode. It was like a fine episode. It's just like, to your point, there's a difference between like, oh,

I was caught by surprise in the first season versus the second season is like, y'all have all the potential in the world now. Now it's just time to show and prove. And that's just the harder, it's a harder battle. They'll get back on it. I mean,

again, Stephen Young talked about this. We've talked about this. It can't do like another like two and a half year gap between episodes. Hopefully we find something out about season three soon. I think, I mean, talked about,

Charles mentioned it, that they're working on it. So fingers crossed, but ultimately, if they come back and they're like, hey, guys, see you in 2025. I don't know if I'll be there. So, and let's, there's still a lot of amazing threads to pull on for the last three episodes.

It's like a lot of stuff that's going on. And I really do feel like the show is going to finish just, incredibly strong because there's so much meat on the bone I mean you haven't read the comics

I know I've gone I've read I've watched some YouTube videos I got I went down a little rabbit hole one time Wow you'll read Dune you won't read Invincible I know the Confucus on Facebook and Reddit are like I got the compendiums at the crib man If you need to borrow

Okay let me tell you all right something real quick If I wanted to read the shit I would Okay Just look Dune affected me in a different way. It's fucking Dune. Look, the reality is this. It's, I can't read everything.

All right. Invincible's great. I enjoy it. I watch some of the people that you're talking about. It's very interesting. Didn't know that it went on this long, okay? But Dune is different. Don't fucking try to compare anything to them.

I never want to hear about Dune again. I'm telling you. Are you going to get it? Are you going to get to get a lot? Get me off Iraqis. For please. I can't do it. So this is the problem with that.

though. You guys don't want to hear about Dune anymore and it's my whole life. Well, that's not, see. I thought wrestling was your whole life. Wrestling is my whole life, but my life is wrestling and Doom and soon to be wrestling on Dune. With cowboy hats. I mean, Batista was on, on Iraqis. Oh, excuse me. Charles, how about that? Oh, who's the international heavyweight champion of Iraqis?

Yeah, Charles, how about that? I mean, if Batista is your wrestling champion on Iraqis, y'all ain't last and last. How about what? Paul Triniys had the money in the bank. That the WWE was all. Respect. Batista. Batista bomb fed families for years. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Are we talking about Batista the wrestler? Are we talking about what Batista did in Dune? Because he got no wins in Dune. Acting great. He was pretty fucked up in Dune. You got so. As a matter of fact, and by the way, that's a different thing with the book, when I was reading the book as well, not to explain.

doing the book. But like... Harkinans are nasty. They're nasty, but at the same time, they are just... They're nasty, but they're also just like kind of a regular family. I don't know. The baron's fucking nuts. He is, but when you first meet,

when you first meet Fade, like, he was just hanging out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, it's Hay, it's Fade. And the other guy was talking to most shit. Who's the other dude that's with the baron? The fucking guy is like his... Oh, his right-hand man? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So he was talking... I look, it's different. I like the book. Don't ever disparage Dune ever again. Because Dune is the most important thing. Every time we talk about Dune, it's the most important thing. I got to read the comments and all the comments is like, you don't know what you're talking about.

You can't do it. You can't stop Van from a lore dive. And it's, it's the matrix all over again. Fuck lore. Like if you're ready for the, fuck lore. No. You can't. How did you say fuck lore and then be on this podcast?

Nerd ass shit. Get that shit. That's crazy. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. You're better than us now. Because you got the fucking jacking.

Clearly. Am I better than the lore nerds? 100% truck driving. Let's talk about it. Before we get the show, then let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. You're better than the lore nerds. Not all nerds, just the lord nerds.

So Charles went from being a midnight boy to being an 80s high school movie villain. Bullying you at a ski resort. You can see a comic book. Talk to me. Talk to me William Zabka. William Zapka. If we're going. He wasn't in back to school.

Back to school. William Zabka is in. William Zabka's fucking Johnny from a car. I'm talking about Billy Zane. Billy Zane. Billy Zane is not in back to school? William Zabka. Oh, my guy.

William Zabka. William Zabka. A karate kid. The karate kid. And then just one of the guys he came black. He was in back to school. And he played back to school is.

Robert Johnny Jr. Yeah, but he's not playing the bad guy. No, yeah. The bad guy was shit. But that's also college. So I like it's a little different. But the Billy Zane. Andrewfield's in back to school.

Yeah, he's a triple indie. Don't try to come into my era. Look, you don't know these movies. I don't know, not even close. Robert Donnie Jr. did play an asshole, though. Oh, and weird science. Come on now. Weird science.

Come on. And that's you. That's you now, Chuck. We're going to be honest. Let me get this take off really quick. Go for it. You know, as a society, we changed a lot. Oh, God.

Bullying. We were just like, is wrong. The nerds took over. Now we have a bunch of incels that are destroying democracy. okay, and everything we love. Where's this going? And I'm just saying that's because y'all let the lore nerds have a little bit too much power.

Now they're in the comments, yelling at women, yelling at black people, getting a little bit too much dip on their chip, you know what I'm saying? And I'm just like, hey, pushing people in a locker was kind of saving American democracy. If we're being real, we probably would have still had a democracy if we were like, hey, nerds. Charles, I really think, I really don't.

think this is the take you think it is. No, hold on, hold on, hold on. Whoa, wait, whoa, whoa, American democracy was not destroyed by the nerds. I don't, I think Ronald Reagan destroyed American democracy. I mean, yeah, but the first layer, but the last ones where we were just like, hey, we're not going to vote in reality stars. Like, you know what I'm saying? We're not going to lie to our parents because they're on Facebook and can't fucking

understand how to use it. Do I just saying? Do I think that we should bring back bullying? Yes, but not to throwing people Okay, sorry. We're just saying so much shit on. Hold on, hold on. This thing, right?

Like, be nicer to people. That's really ultimately what it is. All right. Just don't be, just don't be a dick bad. You know what I mean? That's ultimately the take. We shouldn't bring back bullying. No.

No. We should not bring back bullying. We should have been back bullying, but at the same time, like, what we should bring back is shame. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Exactly. I don't want to, look. Like, bullying can't be brought back. And I'll tell you why. It really can't. I'll tell you why bullying can't be brought back. Just remember going places and seeing people kick my homie's magic to gathering cars and be going. Damn.

Listen, listen. I just remember being like, all right, now, okay. Now these are my people I went to middle school with, whatever you do to them, I'm going to do to you. Like, so bullying can't be brought back. We can't bring back bullying. Bullying because there's too many different things. Do you really think I'm advocating for people to bully? You really sounded like

I don't say it. Jeez, guys, guys, guys. What I do think is this. This is what I do think. This is your deepest instincts when it comes to lore. You just hate it when someone loves something too much.

You just don't like it. When someone loves something too much. This is 100% accurate. Of course. And so it's not actually, you don't want to see these people like. Happy. You just don't want to be happy.

When somebody loves something too much, guess what? I take sure right now. my life is doom-based right now. Okay, I have a dune-based life. It's gone too far. It's affected me in almost every aspect of like... But here's the thing...

Me and Kalika are going back and forth a couple of days ago, like we're in the argument. Oh, no. And I say to her, I say, you know what I need? I need a still guard. That's what I need. Oh, my. I need somebody who believes that I'm on Al-Gai.

I need someone who sees in me, and she's looking at me. And she's like, yo, are you fucking kidding me right now? I was like, yeah, I need someone who sees that I have promised and that I can actually get there in everything that I do. Wait, do you, you're reading Dune, so you do understand that Stilgar worships space at work. I do.

So, but, but, but, but you see, once again, you made it negative. What I don't know. I need a woman who understands. Like, I mean negative. What I'm saying is, like, what, it obviously, what, you missed the point, okay? The point was that sometimes I want somebody to believe in me, like a steel guard will believe in at least on. Blind faith, like, you know, just with complete and utter devotion. Last point.

The other reason that I'm upset with lore nerds is because y'all niggas never want to talk about the lore that I like. Like, I want to talk about hockey. I want to talk about men. I want to talk about cursed energy. Sorry, not the, not the sports. hockey. Fuck, no. See, I was confused. Aramette hockey.

Okay, see, I was confused. I don't know you was going to take like that. But see, this is so, this is such an important part of the Midnight Boys right now. This is one of the most important conversations of her had, right? Every hater just wants to participate. That's what you got. That's so true.

This is so sure. It's like I want. Every hater just wants to. It's not that Charles doesn't like a lore nerd. is that Charles is upset that this is not a podcast based around bleach. Whoa, bleach? Guys, it's One Piece, it's Jiu-Jitsu Kizen.

Bleach would never make it on this pod. Oh, I don't see. What if we want to make a bleach pod now? We would never do that. Can I be honest with you? I don't even know what bleach is. I just hear people talking to them. And Naruto, right?

That's the big three? Whoa. All right, the big three at the time. You know what, Charles? You know what? Hold on. You know what? This is what we're really good.

Iso. You know what? Clear out. What's this? Hey, it's Kobe signed. You're coming. Isso. Isso.

What do you do this? Charles, you know what we're going to do? What are we going to do? Because you guys think that I like these three guys? That's not true. I don't like these three guys. I love these three guys. Charles, we're going to do a pot.

The pot is going to be called Haterfest 2024. Oh. We're going to do a pod, but it's not going to be about you hate it. Charles is so excited. We're going to do a pod of two and a half or three hour pod based around only anime and stuff that you like. Oh, hell, yeah. Watch it.

We'll all watch it together. It'll be a whole chuck base because now I get it. You don't feel heard or seen by some of the content that we cover. I want you to feel heard and seen. I want to get into it. you, you know what? Jiu Jitsu Kaisen. Jitsu Kaisen.

He can never say it. Honestly, I'm not a lore nerd. I realize I'm a nerd in cell. I haven't gotten my nerdiness out. You're off to your democracy. My loins are too full of nerdy goodness, but nobody wants to talk about my lore. What the fuck?

Okay. Nerd and cells. Look. I like this. I like people being their true selves. So there's a lot of people listening to this podcast that thinks Charles hates everything. It's very important that we see you, Charles.

Thank you. Haterfest, 2024. I feel heard. This is the first time I really feel heard. You have to choose, though, because we can't do three. You have to choose two things that we're going to watch. Oh, fuck. All right, you know, I'm going to get all of my anime buddies together.

It might smell like Bia, but we're going to really think about this. Can we talk about the last slam dunk? I want to talk about the last slam dunk. Or the first slam dunk, the first slam dunk. No. You love that movie. I do. Is this that movie on Disney

Chai Can Dunk? No, no, no, no. It's an anime. No, it's an anime about, uh, do you ever see that movie? Chain, chain can dunk. Chain can dunk? Do you ever see chain can dunk?

Is it a Disney Channel movie? Is it a Disney Channel original? Yeah, it was a Disney channel. Wait, I didn't watch that one. I watched the one where the Irish, that's 20, that's 20, that just came out. Chain can dunk. Wait, did you guys watch the Irish, the Irish basketball movie?

A luck of the Irish? Yeah. Nah, that's for my time. Yeah, man. They was always trying to get the white people to play basketball and Disney Channel original movies. Oh, God. What was the decomm that was with the twins, bro?

Oh, yeah. That was based on the true story. Yeah, and then like the last shot is like, it's like a seven-second timer, but it takes like 45 seconds. And it's not in slow motion. It's in real time. And she's getting the ball. Man.

Let me tell you got something right now. If you have some time, you should watch Chain Can Dump because it was good. I like that. Is this trailer? It's nuts. Hey, the movie I was talking about? Can't call it this today. Double teamed.

Can't do that. Wait, about the sisters? About the twins, yeah, you can't. Yeah, you can't do that. No, no, just too much, Joe. You can't do that. Wait, the fact that at that time of society, nobody was just like, hey.

Maybe we should run this back and not call it this. We were wholesome. Hoseon back then, man. So, Charles, you have to think of the two things. Maybe we'll do a watch party. Maybe we should do an anime watch party. Maybe we should do an anime watch party. T-shirts.

Maybe we should do an anime watch party. here at the Spotify Theater. And then after that, we should let you get Haterfest 2024 off. Maybe this will be our next live thing. You're the one. And honestly, I need all the hot anime shoddies to come through because Dan's been telling me that there's a lot of women in L.A.

who are, like, anime fan. Fake fan. I'm missing out. Y'all, y'all know what I'm talking about. Not really like getting this. Y'all try to act like y'all talking about, like, made the style, you acting like she like anime and all of these different. But she does.

She absolutely does. Can I just say Megda Staling in Japan has been the best contest? Bro. She living her best life. Maybe life is worth living. The Japanese are treating her like a queen, bro. I'm not hating. I just think that using somebody else's culture to make it seem like you quirk you.

All right. Let's get out. And with that, Scott DeShoghugan. I'm quirky and I'm into different stuff. Look at me. I got like, okay. All right. It's very on the line.

By the way, I'll say something real quick. Before we move on, as black people, we're getting dangerously close to being on the line of exploiting and making a joke

out of Eastern culture. See the girl with the back tattoo? She put the rising sun on her back and she don't even know what's going on. Like, it's the appropriation and the level that black people, they don't like it when nobody else do it, go to some place.

They don't like it when people, I'm just saying, I'm just saying they don't like it. I'm going to be honest. I think it's an equal cultural exchange, especially when you get into the music. Okay, definitely could be.

It definitely could be. But we should talk about it. Bring me on hard learning. They were like, we got traded like anime, manga, nerd shit. And we're just like hip hop, R&B, all this shit here. You got it. Yeah, okay.

It could be just just make the set. I just want to make sure everybody's respectful. of other people's culture and their cultural expression and that we're not going too far with all of that stuff and make sure you respect, you know, people over there. Okay, cool.

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may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Uh, now, Shogun, Charles. We're getting ready to talk about Shogun. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. This is a mini, another mini midnight manifest for Shogun,

the 8-Fol fence, directed by Frederick E.O. Toy, written by Nigel Williams, and Emily Yoshida. So Toronaga arrives at Yabashiga's village to greet and inspect his army before departing, leaving Blackthorn, Mariko, Yubeshiga, and his son Nagakato to jockey for power in his absence. Mariko introduces Blackthorn to his new wife as a Hotimoto,

which means he gets a home, high salary, and a consort. In this case, Fuji. Very quickly, it's revealed that Blackthorn knows nothing about warfare, but uses naval expertise to teach the men how to wield cannons. Fuji and Blackthorn grow closer as the consul reveals herself to be formidable, defending the naval captain in front of their home. Mariko and Blackthorn do the nasty after the Englishman seduces her with the stories of London and riverwalking.

Mariko, Fuji, and Blackthorn Alliance grows more powerful, but the moment is ruined when Taganora's son, Nagakado takes Madison to his own hands and uses cannons to kill Josin and Ada Vishito, who is there to basically inspect what the fuck is happening, which means war, and that has been your mini-midnight manifest for Shogun. What's up? This show is fantastic. It's great.

It's great. It's great. It's so good. This show is absolutely fantastic. Lots of things happened in this episode that were amazing. The end of this was particularly stirring. Take something that the show does one. Taking motivation and using it to turn it into plot. It's a very simple thing that shows should be able to do when they're telling great stories, but sometimes they always sacrifice character exploration motivation for a spectacle.

This show doesn't do this. The show is small when it's supposed to be small. It's big when it's supposed to be big. Okay? You know what I'm saying? And by the end of the show, when this ghastly attack happens, you 100% understand how and why something that's that consequential, that starts that type of war.

It's gone hot now. It was all these machinations behind. Everybody was eating around the edges of this gigantic conflict. Now it's here and you get totally wide. Here's the thing. Before I get serious about why I love Shogun, I have to shout out.

I've been out in these L.A. streets, you know, I've seen what's out there. Any woman or prospective partner that's not Fujisama who's not giving me that dedication to the grind, to the game, Fuji's just, she's a real one. You know what I mean?

And I think that was my favorite part of the episode where it's like we're introduced to Fuji in the beginning. She gets everything taken away from her. Not her fault. Her fucking husband, her kid. Marika looks her in the eyes and be like,

your Lord still needs you. You can't die. And you're like, after that, so much other stuff is happening. I'm forgetting about Fuji. I'm like, Fuji, what is that? And that moment when Fuji like,

holds out her hands is like, I'll take the gun. As she uses the gun. As she uses it, I'm like, this is a level of just storytelling where it's like, I had forgotten about that character. I didn't, like, I wasn't that invested in that character because so much else happened and immediately I zeroed in. I'm like, who is this actress? Who wrote this episode?

Why is this so compelling? And then to come back at the end when Blackthorn, Blackthorn this whole fucking series has been an asshole. I'm like, I hate this man. And when he finally apologies to Fuji gives the gun, and then she comes back and be like, hey, I can't be a motherfucker who doesn't have swords.

And they come together. I'm like, that's real TV. Let me say, well, but I appreciate it about her. I appreciated the little switcheroo that happened. Okay? Fuji knows, she knows Blackthorn doesn't want to pillow her.

It's not into the pillowing. He has a wave. with the other lady Mariko Oh no We got it So when they get up And like I'm watching the scene

Kalika's right next to me And I'm thinking This is the way it's supposed to be This is the way it's supposed to go Elaborate What do you mean by that? Nope What do you mean by that?

Jesus Christ She gets up She walks out of the room Mariko walks into the room, they understand it's their little secret, what I call it, a little Pollyanna situation.

You know what I mean? This is what Paul Atreides was pitching at the end of Dune. Everything is back to Dune. Everything was about to do. I'm just saying the characters in this story are bound

by honor but inspired by ambition. Cold is line in this thing. An ally with ambition is no ally at all. Come on now. Bars. Bars.

You, that is, that's tough. Whoa. But guys, guys, let's not fast forward. I was a little worried. I was just like, so you're telling me Mariko. Mariko's on her business. Mariko knows a bunch of shit. That white man takes one fucking bath and stops smelling like baloney and wet dog hair.

And she's just like. She's been plotting on him for ever to say, Let's be for him. Yeah, yeah. No, no, she's been, really, really, he, he's the thought in the situation. He's the thought? He's the thought? He's the thought.

She's been plotting on him since. No, no, no, no. Because, no, because in, I think it was last episode, my man saw her fucking husband, knows he can't speak the language, and he's basically plodding like, oh, that's your, that's your man. Well, I mean, when the husband came in, it was obvious, it was some static. That was a Steve move. Like, when Steve does that. No comment.

that when the husband came in, it was obvious that there was some static that it wasn't all good. You know what I mean? She's so duty-bound that she is, first of all, think of the, in this one specific between Blackthorne and Marika, think about what they got going on.

They're the only people who can really communicate with one another. So this bond is just, it's almost natural in the fact that he's an outsider to this world. She's the only one that can make sense of it for him. She's the only one with, like, an insight into his mind.

So when he talks, he has to talk to her. He has to share parts of himself with her that he won't be able to share with anybody else. He has to be intentional about every word

that he says to her. And that comes across in a way that probably makes her feel seen in a very specific way that she might not feel any other place

in Japan in Osaka right now. And it's also an incredible amount of power that she has over one person. Yeah. Yeah.

And so, for them, their relationship is almost, there's no way things can't be a little bit deeper. And then, you know, he's a good-looking guy. She's one of the most beautiful women I've seen on television in a long time. So it's happening.

And all of this is also happening while just, I think the machinations that are happening here in Shobin are as good as I've seen be pulled off in any television show. What's the, you guys, I really do apologize about. And we're butchering these

names we are not from Japan. We love this show. Give us a little grace. So I'm going to lean on Charles for this. The, the feudal lord that is, the feudal lord that is the treacherous one that's caught between two lords. Yabashika. Yabashika. Like, Yabashika, I love that character. He's the worst double agent of all time. No, no. I love that character. I mean, I do too. He's terrible at being playing both sides. No, but that's why I think actually Toranaga likes him because it's like,

it's very easy to deal with somebody who you know is going to stab you in the back of five minutes. Like, that's actually why I think he leaves because he's like, he's like, dog, this thing is not going to get bad and shit, bro. He's like, bro, he's stuck. You know, he's the only one who doesn't know it.

A character like that that wears their insecurities so loudly, that is catnip for somebody who can really, really think to a high level, right? Like the scene where they land in the village that he controls and he has his man come out there, this man are cheering for him. He's like, ah, yeah, yeah. Toranaaga just turns those guys in like five seconds and they're cheering for him.

You see how uncomfortable it is. It hated. Hated it. The whole not, the fact that everything seems to hinge on his ability to walk between these two worlds and obviously he's doing it poorly. I just think that's great. I mean, not to bring up, you know. stuff. But I think what this episode does very well is you never get the sense that Blackthorn

is the hero of the story. Even when he's like, because in any other TV show or movie, when Blackthorn is having to like brainstorm his way out of it, it would be shot in such a heroic manner of like, look at how smart he is. When he comes up with the cannons, you don't get that feeling. It's just very matter of fact. It's just a matter of fact of he's Like, okay, he's figured out a way to save himself. And I'm like, any other TV show or movie would have played that differently.

And that's where, like, and I think what is good about this is I'm like, every character on this, they're not heroic in the sense that we're used to. They are literally trying to, I think it was what last episode where it's like, these motherfuckers are ready to write their will every single day. Every choice that they make is like, I might die today and that's fine. But I need to figure out a way of the corner that I've been basically forced into. and that's just good television. It's this thing to where, like I said, everyone has this intense sense of duty, but they want more.

Duty and ambition clashing. They want more. You want more land. You want more agency. You know, you have something else that you're supposed to do. And another thing that undergirds this for me is just the cultural classes

and it's not just cultural clashes between the Eastern way and the Western way. The Portuguese versus the English. Catholic Protestant. Catholic Protestant. All of these things that are sort of popping up in a world that is just discovering culture. Outside of itself.

Outside of itself. So when I say, yes, Steve, thanks for the help there. White men. You don't want to sound like Japan doesn't have culture. How do you pronounce Shoggi? again, Steve? Like, no, what I'm saying is

they're not, I'm not discovered their own culture, they're discovering cultural differences and then litigating how they live together. Think about how ecstatic the Portuguese priests were that they get to build a new church.

That was enough to make them do something that they wouldn't have otherwise done. The power of their ministry, the power of them being able to talk and spread it to people. It's just a very formative time in the world's history. And all of that is a part of like what people want and how people are trying to get it

in the show. Can I, if I put on my radical hat a little bit, which I, what I think politically or thematically what the show is doing is so interesting is that what I loved about Mariko and Blackthorn scene is what happens right before she decides to sleep with him. She has this flashback to the worst moment in her life. we don't know what it is. But I think the thing that I'm watching in Shogun is that this isn't just West versus East. This is in Western, when Blackthorn is talking about London, he admits it's dirty.

It's infested. It looks nothing like that. Japan at this time still champions aesthetics and beauty and duty and honor and everybody having a role to play in society. And Mariko, everything that she's experiencing, everything that Fuji is experiencing, all these women and men are just like, that generation is over. That respect, that duty, that honor is over.

The canons are the symbol of that. Yeah. The world is changing. And it's like Mariko, I think she sees in Blackthorn a part of herself where it's like, oh, we're really monsters. We are really deep down all barbarians.

And I think that she sees in Blackthorn, like he is a representation of what I'm trying to be come, which is someone that is essentially like, fuck this duty, fuck this honor. I basically need to get my lick back. This world took everything from me. And I'm just like, that is such an interesting way of thinking of like, because like when Blackthorn comes, it's like, it's not like, oh, he's about to save this country.

It's like, oh, no, he's teaching this country a form of violence and warfare that's already plunged everywhere else in the chaos. The interesting thing about Blackthorn, to me, is that. that he, their culture seems to be so acquainted with loss. Yes. It's like they look, hey man, I blur it out. I'll end my line. I'll kill me and my kid.

I don't care. That's just very acquainted with loss. He is totally uninitiated with accepting loss. He won't accept it. I'm not dying here. I'm not dying here. I'm not dying here. I'm not dying here.

I'm not dying here. Even when, in episode three, when they are fleeing and her husband comes out and he goes, go back. Like, you can, like,

you can still get to him. Go back. They're like, no. Like, stand up. By the way, I'm not sure that character's dead.

Stand up. Oh, yeah. If you don't see him to die. No, I was reading some shit where some people were just like, I don't know if he's dead. I don't.

I'm not sure that character's dead because, number one, because as she starts to fuck Blackthorn, Blackthorn, her husband popping back up would be peak mess. So I'm not sure that character's dead. We did not see that character die. But he just, he don't leave anybody behind.

Don't lose, whatever. His whole thing is about avoiding loss. He is dedicated to getting his men back, to getting his shit back. they don't care about it. It's a part of who they are. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes you got to die.

The fucking dude has his, at the end, has his legs and arms blown off. Doesn't seem that upset with it. The thing that he seems more pissed off about is this isn't how samurai fight. This isn't how we fight. Yeah, like he doesn't, he's not like, oh my God, I'm missing a leg.

He's like, hey, you didn't fuck me up the right way. So like, why? Watching that, right, somebody desperate to not lose, desperate to stay alive, desperate for the lives of his men, against people who are so, like, they have such an allegiance, should I say, tradition and sacrifice and just accepting things in the way that they are. But they have an allegiance to what, the whole, which is so funny as well, where it's just like so many of the interesting characters in this,

everybody else who has less power, they're always being like, you need to basically think about the Lord. You're like, you are following him. You're following this village, these people, whatever. Blackthorn comes in there and he's just like, fuck your traditions, fuck your Lord. I don't care about being a Hattamoto.

Take it all away. Where's my shit? And that is like, that's so interesting to me because the conflict of what does it mean to basically put your life on the line? For honestly, a bunch of like lords and people who don't seem to give a fuck about you, versus Blackthorn's way,

which is like, I will destroy the Portuguese, I will destroy y'all to get my shit back, to get back to my family. I mean, after this episode, I'm like, no, no.

What family? Right? And I think that's why they're so scared of Blackthorn is because if he comes in and shows him a different way of life, that could mess up the whole thing for everybody. Right?

If you're like, oh, I don't have to be loyal to these people. I don't have to die for these people like this. I can show everybody that look. I can do my own thing and survive out here without the lords, without the fives, all that. Then it starts, you're messing with the money.

You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't really, you can't move like that. And so that's why, like, they wanted him dead. And that's probably why going forward in the series is he's going to be a huge problem.

No team ball. Blackthorn don't play team ball at all. Clearly not. Clearly not. Is there any fucking show or movie ever? where the kids of powerful men aren't going to be fucking embassals.

The young Simba had his head on treat. After a while. It took a second. Oh yeah, he was eating bugs. After a while. I guess Hector is pretty good from Troy. I want everybody to come up with the list

of sons and daughters. Competent nepo babies. Competent nephob babies. I think that's kind of oxymoron, really. Like, some nepo babies are good. Getting it's one thing, keeping it's another. Some nepo babies are. So Bryce Dallas Howard?

You know you like her. You milk mergers. Stop acting. We got to go. You guys should just see. You guys should have seen the way Jomey just like. You should have seen the way Jomey. Gasing this.

Browse in this crazy. Can we. Bryce Dallas Howard didn't even milk. That's a milkshake because that's thick. Wait. Wait, did you guys? That's, that's, day. Did you guys see that Twitter?

Twitter reviews? Like, one nigga was just like, hey, I'm so happy to see someone like Bryce Dallas Howard back on the screen. Just thick. Just everything we wanted. And I was just like, dog, you got to chill. You got to take it down. Nasty work. I mean, but hey.

Bryce Dallas Howard, I don't care what nobody says. Can't. Guys Dallas Howard is good That's good That's G-O-O-D that's good Jomi stop Fucking acting like you know We need to

We know who you are Jomi you've never seen a white woman you didn't want to That's not true That's not the truth When you walk through When you walk through the place Scoping it out You just like hey yo

So shout out to everybody On the American Fisher Shout out to my dear friend Cord It was a very we have fun turning up, celebrating American fiction, and it was a great mix of people.

And let me tell you something. When I say mix, Jomi was fixed on the mix. That's not true. There were different flavors of milk in there. There was French milk. There was Spanish milk. There was Portuguese milk.

There was milk from all different types of cows. And Jomey was full of cows. I'll see him that night. And so I'm funny. Charles laughing, Charles know who I talked to that night. So that's crazy work. I mean, you might have, come on, man, you might have, you might have thrown some affirmative action in there.

Yeah. No, man. You know, we're done. We're done. It's crazy. It's still legal. It's crazy. They're outlawed it in the workplace, but it's still legal in the bar.

Jomi, you might be doing a five to one ratio. But we know what you like? Yeah. Wait, why can you? Can we talk? A diversity hired? That's crazy, Joemi, that's okay.

It's okay. I'm not going to, I'm not going to be honest. Jomi's roster's looking like the fucking Boston Celtic stands. Jesus Christ. I need to address. We got to, we got to address this real quick.

We got to stop. We have to stop. Y'all act like I'm going after every single, you know. Wait till you guys hear my versus category. Like, y'all think, like, I'll be on a tee. be like, hey, this fine white women that we all agree is bad is bad. He's like milk.

It's like guys. Wait, when's the last time you've uplifted a sister on this podcast? Bro, look. All right. How about this? How about this? Joni Harris. How about this?

Jomey? We didn't talk about Tiana Paris. Do me your favorite right now. Name five black women. Five black women? Do we need you to make it to five? My mom. My sister.

Your mom. Your mom. You see what I'm saying? You're saying? Black women. You guys. You guys know. You guys know.

You mean like famous black people We could go Lupita Nguangu You know, Newongue That's butted up You fucked it up There you go I busts that

And by the way You fuck You butcher the name There's no excuse for that That's true I'm African too You guys are from the continent That's tough

To be fair That's tough You want to know Why you said Lupita Because she had milk Merchant Oh

Oh she is a milk merchant Shout out Joshua Jackson Joshua Jackson He living my life bro I'm hot I seen it

Because remember She got broken up Like Something happened with her old man Joshua Jackson's living your life? Yes, he has to be saying is living my life, but I don't think,

I don't think Joshua Jackson's living your life. I kind of feel like he could be. You know what I'm saying? I kind of feel like if I was in the same rooms, you know what I'm saying? Like, if I had the same opportunity and the same means. When you're in the opportunities

and there's a bunch of sisters? It's not, but you see what I'm saying? You're not operating like that. I absolutely am. I think Joshua Jackson is living Thomas Jefferson's life. Oh, my. Oh, my.

You cut this show. Dan, then. That's insane. I apologize. That was too far. Leave it in. This is why we can't record in person.

That was too far. That was too far. What? Okay, guys. Okay, I apologize. Okay. That was too far. Hey, man.

Hey, this is... I mean, we might be with y'all next week. Who knows? Who knows at this point? That was too far. It was too much. I Van Lathen apologized for saying that. Moving on.

Here's what I'll say. First and foremost, to invoke the words of our great friend, Mallory Rubin, protect Fujisama at all costs. Oh, man. I love her. She's like just the best little like, if anything happens to her, I'm going to be super duper upset. But to Vance point, the machinations of the show are why it's so good. Like, there's a conversation with, what's that, what's that dude's name?

The Fife guy. It's, I don't think. Josin? Not Josin. The guy who, Yabushiga has running that village. Oh, his nephew, that he left in charge, yeah. And then his nephew talks to Nagakoto. It's like, hey, man, if you got to, you know, some, like, we got to do some.

You know, like, hey, I don't know. Oh, man. you put the battery in his back. He's like, I know he's going to fuck it. And then like, I'm thinking like, good episode. Hey, you know, I hate that Mariko and Blackthorn got their thing going on. But hey, it was always going to happen, you know. But there's not a lot of action in this episode.

And then, excuse me, there's not a lot of action this episode. And then people just start exploding. Oh, man. People just start like, police is went everywhere. I'm like, yo. What's going on? I got to be clear, It was so funny when he started going.

All right, everybody, all my guys, move out of the way, move out of the way. I'm just like, if I was there, if I was chosen's man, I'm like, I'm not standing right here. I'm out of him. You know what's crazy is there wasn't a lot of action in the episode, but there was a lot of dramatic action. Yes. Yes. There was a lot of dramatic action in the episode. And I think that when you're tense, you're on a.

when things are happening that are unexpected, it makes you feel the same way that you feel when there's a big action sequence. Agreed. I've never really felt like this show, I'm not saying that it's doing it unnecessarily, but I'm like, I never needed the like, oh man, we're prepping up for a big action scene. I'm like, no, I like this palace intrigue drama

a lot more than any of the action. And not to say that it's bad, but I'm just like, get me in with this drama. This is great. I do have a problem with the show, though. and I think we need to talk about it. My big problem with the show is theme song doesn't slap. That's it, yeah. It doesn't slap, okay.

It's rough. It's rough. Do we need it to be? But here's the thing, though. Does it need to be a banger? Game of Thrones. Succession. The wire way down.

You have these things where you like, all right, man, we're going to get crackets. Who do we hire to make the song for? Season two of Shogun. Rizza. Rizza? Oh, that's... Hold on. Hold on.

Rizah. Come on, man. You're not lying. The visuals on the thing are cool, like, you know, like the sand and the ship, like, the map. It's all great. But I'm like, yo, where's the song that lets me know, like, I'm here for Shogun? You know, it's... That's the only problem with the show.

Everything else? Fantastic. Great show. Great show. All right, guys, we're out. Look, here's the deal. We'll be back next week. More visible.

versus are on Friday. Look, I'm into the show. The show is fucking great. The show is cooking. We only have four more episodes. Yeah, man. Halfway done. Halfway done. Four more episodes of Shogun, man. That's wrap.

I want to hear more Shogun coverage. Be sure to tune in to the Prestige TV podcast as well. That's with Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney. Joe and Rob, Rob and Joe. Okay, check them out. This week, the House of R will be giving you their live show from South by Southwest. Oh, yeah.

Down in Austin. I went to Austin. Austin was fun. I had never been. I like Austin. Been there twice. It's pretty cool. Getting as bad as people say it is.

So, it was a thing. So, like, when I went to Austin, everybody that wasn't from there, we were like, oh, my God, Austin's so great. Everybody that I talked to Austin that was from Austin was like, get the fuck out. You fucking got to go to blacks and wait three hours for the barbecue. you don't even try to go to

Franklin's you'll be there all goddamn day it used to be that you couldn't build a goddamn building that was higher than the state capital now look around you can't even see it's fucking Texas they sound just like that that's how they sounded

did you go to Pete Terry's? No oh Pete Terry's that like that look that fucking burger spot that's all over the place is it good? I think pretty good I think the fries are like kind of all right like with the game got some good season I let's stack up against Waterburger. Let me tell you out something right now.

Waterburger fucking sucks. Oh, don't do it. Oh, does that sound? Texas? You know where I haven't been yet in L.A.? I still have not gotten in and out. You're fine. You're fine.

Here's the thing. It doesn't look great. No, it's okay. It's okay. It's fun. But my thing is... Too gassed up. I...

A little bit, but at the same time, the price point is the selling point. You can go there, you can eat good for $15. Not even $15. You go crazy. It's been $15. It's no five guys. Brother, you need to take out a second mortgage to get five guys.

Five guys is cooked. Five guys is cooked. Shake shack too, honestly. Shake shack no. Mad expensive. If we're talking like for like the price in and out every single day, we talk about burger quality, I think the burgers in and out are better, but the fries kind of, it kind of sets you back a little bit. And I'm not going to lie.

You know what I'll say? out here in LA that's just not is not good. Y'all got to get this jack in the box shit out of here, bro. Yeah, nigga, you need to change your life. What do you mean? Jack in the Box?

We don't, we don't even Jagged the Box. Yeah. When I got here and it was literally like, I was just like, everything's closed. It's fucking 2 a.m., where do I go? I mean, at that point, yeah. I mean, whatever, bro. McDonald's, it is what it is.

We don't go to Jackman. I also coming this Friday is 22-3 versus. That shit's terrible. On Sunday, the House of All we'll be giving you their. Go for this good, character, Hall of Fame, of Pau, Trades. X-Men 97 coming soon. Credits our producer

is Steve, the architect Almond. Jami. Adirano socials, hashtag the calcium connoisseur, the old brevage barbarian, the dawn of Dairy Dynasty, the lactose lord of Lagos. And additional production from Arjuna Ram Gapal. Take us out. I need to find myself a Fuji. I would give her all the soap

And Jomey I'm so proud Christ alive That you found love Within the milk Woo I fuck that would never happen In the McDonald's house

Who's the motherfucker who they make a fun of now For like directing porn I was mad I was just like yo Who's the motherfucker? Glenn Davis Yes Glenn Big Baby Davis

You mean my cousin Oh this guy Wait what? Wait what? Yeah you don't yeah Oh you guys are on aware of this? Wait,

are you being serious? Are you fucking with this? That is my father's brother's son. That is what's, that's what's called a first cousin. Did you, did you defend him? I was proud of him.

Like, he's getting, he's like, well, depending him on the porn, but then there was something else. What happened? That's, that's a problem.

Do you talk about the comment? I don't know. I didn't see this. Are you talking about the comment on, on IG? I'm talking about something that was said, that's indefensible. You pull your little cousin to the side and you have a little

conversation. Oh, I didn't know about this. I don't know. It's not great. Okay? My sister sent it to me and you talk to your little cousin. Little cousin's a great guy. He's a great dude. Don't want to say that. That's not great what was said. He apologized. He apologized, but... I didn't know about that. It's not good.

It's not good. It's actually as bad as it gets. Oh, no. Oh, right, cut this whole thing, man. I don't know. What's the mean? I don't have to cut it. Definitely post credits. I'm not saying what he said.

I don't know what he said. Do you know what he said, Steve? No, I don't. We're not, what he said was very bad, okay? Pology that had to come out and you apologize and you realize that there are certain things that are disgusting to joke about and then whatever. Okay. Back to Invincible. So, look.