The Ringer-Verse - 'Invincible' Season 2 Finale, 'Shogun' Episode 7, and More 'X-Men '97' | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

It's time to tap into the animation sensation that is 'Invincible' for its Season 2 finale! The Midnight Boys talk about what made the season overall a little different this time around (14:08). Then they tap back into the captivating 'Shogun' and what they think may happen leading into the finale (55:38). And finally, they take on the drama between Storm and Forge in this week's 'X-Men '97' (88:55). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. This is David Shoemaker. The pro wrestling world is currently on fire. And so we've got you covered five days a week on the ringer wrestling show. Every Monday and Thursday, hang out with me and Kaz on The Masked Man Show. And this is Peter Rosenberg, the host of Cheap Heat. Join me and my guys, Stack Guy Greg and Dipperstein on Tuesdays and Fridays. We talk wrestling. We have bagel breakdowns, mage interviews, and so much more. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal and Brian on Wednesday. Worldwide, where we hit the most interesting headlines and even react to some of mass mans, cheap heats, or even your hottest tics. Don't tap out. Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling Show feed. Now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And stay mage, everyone.

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Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the ringerverse.

This, of course, the ringers nexus podcast, be for all things fandom. we are. Steve, our kid, on the builder, the tiger of things. We are. Jomi, this player,

Deron, you've got questions. We are. Coke, baby Chuck, 24-carry closer, a.k.a. the brunch haughty and old man, Van,

he of the receding resurgent hair line together. We are known as the midnight, boys. Ah, boo!

And I have to follow us because it's very important. Social media is an important part of our society, man. You have to follow us on Facebook. Insta, Twitter, TikTok, so that you may save Jomi's job.

Now, Jomi, what is going on over on the socials as of right now? As of right now, things are going great. The numbers continue to go up. Shout out to y'all. Continue to like, continue to follow. That's really important. But, Van, you had a tweet that really resonated with me. You were like, we got to stop the,

the rage bait the rage gagement that serves us you know what I'm saying? Like are we are we feeding into the trolls now? Because I see it all the time. I'm like,

I'm just like you like, I haven't been great about being like nah, that's bait. I should not fall for it. You know what I'm saying?

I got to be better. You and Van fall for all the bait. It's every single time. Here's thing. I just can't, I can't help myself. What's rage bait that you will absolutely fall for?

Honestly, anything Lakers related, when there's a Lakers game on, I'm like, yo, Jomi, come up. I mean, that's different. That's different. That's different. That's for sure different. That's what I'm locked in at that point. Like, that's just,

that's just being on NBA Twitter at that point, right? You've got to accept, like, ah, you know what I'm saying? There's, we're going to be laughing. We're not going to be, you know what I'm saying? Serious. The one thing I will give you, though, if we're talking about NBA is the Laker free throw thing,

that's insane. People don't know how to read. Take that to the fucking real ones, Joe. That's true. But I mean, no, But people would get online and be like, so we're talking about comic stuff, people are like, man, you know what?

Winter Soldier, not was a terrible movie. And you're like, let's hear them out. Let's hear them out. Guys, like, let's be for real. You know what I'm saying? All right. This whole thing went on too long.

Programming reminders. Okay. This Friday, the Midnight Boys are back. Our instant reactions to Monkey Man. There's a Monkey Man discourse happening as we got ready for the podcast here. El Monk El Man All right Steve was complaining

The movie hasn't even been seen yet Of course Charles complained as well About Monkey Man Wait what did I say You guys were complaining Before we get into it Two complainers No

We were like the movie's gonna be fucking great There were complaints Fuck out of here Before we get into it You're trying to start shit What are you guys's thoughts About Monkey Man I think it's I'm excited for it

I think I'm very interested to see what Dev Patel wants to do for his directorial debut. I think that's the more interesting thing to me. Like what does he have to like say and what's on his mind of like wanting to make a stamp as a filmmaker? I mean, I just want Dev. Like I've been a big fan of Dev like going back to fucking skin Slumdog Millionaire. I do think it is very dope that

an actor is like, oh, they're not giving me the action roles. Like, fuck it. I'm just going to do it myself because you have to think about it like for years. We're like, well, death could be Mr. Fantastic. I'm like, Monkey Man is probably the way more interesting route for his career versus like, oh, Kevin Faggy throws him in an X-Men movie or some shit, you know?

That's probably true. Kevin Fagy, also on Friday, the House of Arm, gives you their top 10 Captain America Winter Soldier moments to celebrate its 10th anniversary. Top 10 moments in the movie. She's a fantastic movie, which is a fantastic idea for a show. Everyone give one great moment from Captain America

Winter Soldier. No, we're not doing this. We're not giving MCU free points, bro. What? What's that right? We're definitely doing it. Yeah. What free points for what?

Why would they be, they don't need free points? Can we talk about Invincible and Shogun? No, we can't. We can do whatever I say. So here's a deal. I have to say something about the, the MCU. I've been thinking about this.

I've been really on a magical mystery journey here thinking about the MCU. I'm ready to make the argument that we're actually being too hard on the MCU. All right. Okay, okay. It's thought about it. I'm not going to do it here in the program of reminders.

But I'm ready to make the argument that we're being too hard on the MCU. I'm ready to make that argument. The copium is so... in a podcast. I'm ready to do it in a podcast, and I'm ready to talk about it and really, really look at it.

I look forward. I don't, because you make this, you make this same argument every single time an MCU movie comes out. Give me the argument that I make. You're always like, guys, guys, we're too hard on the MCU. You know, it's just our expectations.

Is it Kevin Feige's fault? Or is it just us as the fans building this up. Like we need to give them a chance. And I'm like, dog, these motherfuckers aren't like, like, these aren't puppies that have a broken leg

that we just need to nurse back to hell. The MCU is a multi-billion dollar franchise. Like, we're not being hard enough, honestly. Midnight court. So this is why, all right, this is the midnight court. But let me think,

let me tell you why, first of all, Charles just, he just made that up in his mind. I made that up. We literally, for Midnight Court, I'm going to literally go back to every single MCU movie we watch. And I guarantee there's going to be a clip of Van

be like, but guys, come on. We're being really hard. May I speak now? May I speak now? Thank you. I'm talking about, I'm not talking about individual movies is the thing here. I'm talking about when I started,

I was having a conversation with Kalika. When I start to think about the things that the MCU has had to overcome, and all of the slings and arrows that have been thrown, like real shit, like real stuff that is like really fucked up what they wanted to do. A lot of the MCU stuff that we're watching is not the way they wanted things to go. It's not that we're even criticizing their plans. We're criticizing their pivots.

Interesting. Like the things that they had to do in order to make up for, other stuff that happened, some of it that was beyond their control. But that is quite literally every movie and TV show that's made in Hollywood. Give me an example. Give me an example. Honestly, Monkey Man. You know, like, we haven't seen the movie yet, but Dev has quite literally been like,

I broke my hand the first, the first time I was on set. The financier wanted to back out. Like, we had to do X, Y, and Z was supposed to be at Netflix before joining. It's like every single movie and TV show has to overcome hurdles. and pivot, and I'm just like, I can only critique the final product. I can't critique. Let me ask you a question. The GM.

That's fair. That's a fair point. Now, what if Def Patel had died? Wait, what? I see where you're going with this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, Def Patel broke his hand, and they still, he had to do Monkey Man. He had to get his finance and all of that stuff happens during movies.

I know all about it, right? What if he died? Are you trying to compare it at this moment? No, I'm actually asking to, like, Chadwick Bozeman dying. Yeah. But here's the thing. Like, yes, that is a, that is a tragedy, of course. But he didn't have anything to do with secret invasion or moon night or Dr. Strange multiverse of madness or Ant Man.

The plans for all of that stuff changed because of stuff that they were planning to do, like around one character, not just him. but then the pandemic, then when you think about the pen, and I'm not, I'm really just thinking about this. I'm being, when you think about the pandemic, when you think about Jonathan Majors, when you think about Chadwick Bowes, you think about the stuff that had to,

there was a lot of shit that completely changed how they wanted to go about. We don't even know how they wanted to go about their storytelling. And by the way, this isn't holding, water. This is just facts. And this isn't on one movie. This is on two movies. This is the entire thing. This is just facts. We really won't know the actual health of the MCU and the way that they want to do their thing to me until like 2026 or 2027. So I have, this will be my last

point. And maybe we'll take it to midnight court. We weren't talking like this after Wanda vision. we weren't talking like this after Captain America I mean Falcon and the Winter Soldier or Loki or even No Way Home So it's like I like the reason I can't totally back up this argument Is that we've only really started doing this Because it's like oh after no way home Shit just fell off a cliff

And I'm just like they were dealing with all the same problems So this is why I would say Even No Way Home isn't the movie that should have been because of the way they had to move things around, right? But, like, I'd say this. I still don't think that we're talking about it because I don't still don't think that we've thought about it in its totality.

Like, I still don't think that we've talked about it, which is the point of talking about it. I don't think we've thought about it in its totality. I think that when we look at it, we haven't thought about the amount of things that have had, and really, it's not just that, and we'll get into the podcast this week. It's not just that, but it's not about the amount of things that have gone wrong in the last five years.

It's also about the unprecedented amount of luck that you have to have for a 10-year-run with no scandal, making that many movies with no scandal, with no interruptions, with no stuff like that. Just minor blips of this director left or that director left and stuff like that. But, like, you know, nobody getting caught in the room with five, six holes, cocaine everywhere. I mean, there was a bunch of, not a bar. but there was a lot of shit, but it's like, hey. No, no, no, no, no. Nothing on, like, nothing on the level of some, like, the star of your next nine movies, like, assaulting their girl or a worldwide pandemic

or losing the guy who is supposed to hold down your shit for the next, nothing like that, nothing even close. So, I mean, there were some, obviously maybe some people that got into some trouble that maybe, like, whatever, but, like, I'm talking about, like, Like, oh, no, I mean, I agree with that, but it's like easier, I think, when you're on a run for like a bunch of the controversy to be swept under the rug because people are like wrapped up in the moment. And I think it a lot of it is luck to your point. I will not disagree with that. I just think it is a lot easier to attack the biggest threat in the room when it's slipping up.

You know what I'm saying? It's the rap shit. No, I know, I get it. I'm just saying that like I thought about it. as I was in Miami having a Miami Vice drinking. I was thinking, you know what? The MCU

is at, and a lot of, not just the MCU, like a lot of these places are at like all-time lows, but like, we're living in an all-time low era. We're going to talk about this. I don't like this because here's the thing. We're talking about Shogun. We got the bear. We got all this shit popping. We got Andor. I'm just like, hey,

it's just the cream is rising to the top. I like it. I'm feeling this moment. I'm happy. I mean, there's always going to be good stuff. But even if you talk to those people, a lot of that stuff is good because it's able to be contained enough

to subvert the times that we're in. Slash strife. Anyway, interesting. Full midnight court if the people want it. Full midnight court. Let's do it. If the people want it. All right.

Enough of this goddamn talk. It's time to get into the show. We're going to start off with the Invisible Season 2 finale. And we got to give you spoiler warnings because we're going to spoil everything if you didn't see it. Jummy and Chuck might spoil stuff from the comic books as well. So if you're into Invincible and you haven't watched yet, close your ears, little daddy. Steve, give me a spoiler warning. We're getting ready to talk about Invisible Hope.

You're listening to a reaction. Podcast. The spoilers are coming. The fuck was that? That was pop smoke. Wow. Steve. What choice.

Steve. I'm liking it. I'm liking it. It's a great subject. We got to put you in the know about Invincible. Only person that I do that is Chuck. Chuck, take it away. All right.

This is your Midnight Manifest for Invincible. I'm not going anywhere directed by Tanner Johnson, written by Robert Kirkman. Mark returns home to find Engstrom Levy holding Debbie and Oliver hostage. After falling through multiple interdimensional portals, Mark is able to grab a hold of Engstrom and fight him in an alternate reality. Curious at the villain hurting his family, Mark loses control and murders Engstrom, racked with guilt and trapped in this new dimension. Mark travels through the desert until he's saved by an older, alternate reality version of the

Guardians of the Globe. Older Adam Eve tells Mark to reveal his feelings for young Adam Eve, but his present timeline, Mark is too fearful of his growing viltramite temper to be vulnerable with his friend. All right, instant reactions. Chuck, give it to us. Hey, you know, we didn't land the plan. It's fine. Um, yeah, it's season two. It was difficult. It was a rocky patch. Um, I was, I think I was a little mystified by this episode, I think, because I think

thematically, I understood what they were going for. And I think the TV show did a very, very good job of really painting the corner that Mark is in as his viltramite rage continues to grow. Everything in his life is falling apart. Amber, college, his dad, this and that. I, like, felt that. But if Engstrom was supposed to be the big bad of this season, it very much felt like they introduced Engstrom in, like, episode one or two.

I completely forgot about him. He comes back, and then he's, like, yelling and super mad. And I'm just, like, I understand why. Like, I understand all of the beats, but there was something, I think, missing with the moment. because especially in the comics, it is such a, Mark taking that life,

letting his viltramite side kind of win over in that moment is so scary. And I just, there was a part of me where I was like, I feel like this was supposed to hit me in my gut ardor

and it just, I don't know if it did. I thought it was breathtaking. That's great. I thought it was phenomenal. So phenomenal that it, It, in many ways, um,

enhanced the deficiencies of the rest of the season. Yeah, I would agree. Uh, it, it, the, the episode was so good that it was almost a blueprint of what I felt like was wrong with the rest of the invincible season. And it also made me realize that my, Number one criticism was that the break between the seasons, the little mid-season break is the thing that has most hurt this season of events.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's by far the thing that is most hurt this season of Invincible. There was a lot of time to forget a lot of stuff. There was a lot of time to move on and get removed from a lot of stuff. because if all of this is compact, if you get like a two episode premiere or whatever it was,

and then you have like six weeks or whatever it is to tell the story, whatever it would have been, you have a couple of episodes that are lulls, but this was such a strong ending for me, like such a ridiculously strong ending for me that completely sucked me back into, oh yeah daddy suck me back into completely sucked me back into the entire story

Mark's development it re-engage me with Mark's family and how he sees that as a superhero it sees that as it has that just supposes that between his life as a superhero and his life as a human and a family man and person um it created some real stakes around his younger brother because you see the length that everyone was willing to go to to save the little baby, the bond between Mark's mom and Oliver,

right? And then even connecting the brutality and at points the futility of what Mark was going through fighting Anstrom who against he looked to be completely overmatched until

he tapped into the rain. rage inside of him, the true Viltramite inside of him. And then you don't know what's going to happen. And then juxtaposing that with a different version of Omni Man, where he's having to kneel and submit to Viltramite rule. And just the way strength and weakness is being push-pulled between father and son,

the way Mark realizing that he's more like his father. while whereas the father is actually having to take a posture of submission that's probably a little bit more like Mark. When I watch the whole episode, I'm like, this is what I fucking watch the show for. Like, this is what I look at the show for. I look at the show to feel human stakes and superhuman characters. And that's kind of what's been missing.

But if I go back and look at it, it's always there. I was just too detached from the story. And I really do think that the break had a lot to do with that. I'm not saying that this was the best season of Invincible because it wasn't as good as the first season. But I think they did land it. They did completely draw me back in for a third season. I left being like, I'm not going to watch the third season.

Really? I was wondering if I was wondering if I was still invested into Invincible. And I most certainly am. I'm without a doubt am. Wow. I really walked away being like, I just don't think this is. I think it might be more so to Vance point

as to why you might be a bit more disappointed than you might be. Because I'm kind of with Van here. The finale to me was like, oh yeah, you still, like the show knows exactly what it needs to do to be completely captivating. And at times, both with the break, with the break being too long,

and the complete middle of this season is very flimsy and really doesn't do a lot to bring you in and is only occasionally brilliant. We might say that the first season of Invincible is a lot more brilliant than we actually might remember it to be because having rewatched the first season, I was like, maybe it was a little flimsy in that first season in the middle as well.

The season finale kind of bumped it up. But no, but that's exactly why. It's bookended by amazing, and finishes. It knows how to begin a season very well, and it knows how to end a season very well. And everything in the middle is kind of like, oh, man, I'm not going to say that there's a finale problem, but there might be like a bit more of a structural problem in the scaffolding of the stakes that bring us to why Engstrom's like, it needs to be taken that seriously, why all of those things need to be paid off a lot more sprinkled throughout this season rather than having these,

like, cute little stories in between that the comics hit on very well, but you don't have the time for that. And especially given a long break, it's hard to chapterize those things when you know what a good start and stop point is between seasons, let alone mid-season breaks. The audience isn't really ready for that. I don't like, from what I took away from this finale, I'm like, you got me back in again. Like, I'm here for season three. I really am. But like, it's a tough way to go about this weekly. Like, I think that this is an advocation for a binge watch for the rest of season three because if we get

if we got all of this in one go maybe I might be a bit more forgiving to it because it's again bookended so well but I just I don't know about the season overall I said this the first first episode for when he came back for the second half of season two

the break really zaps all the mo the moe out of the Joe you know what I mean like there's nothing there so you just come in full tilt and you're like oh whoa whoa like what's going on. And I think this episode highlights one of the strengths of the show extremely well at its, and it's Mark and his journey, right? At the end of the first half, episode four, his father's like, look, dog, you're holding back. You got to stop doing that. That's going to get you killed. That's

going to hurt people. Like, use your Wiltsumite powers. And he does. And like, oh, we're like, okay, Mark, we see it. And then in the second half of this, of this part, he's not, he's still getting his butt kicked. He's still like, and this is literally like, puts him in a crater, right? It's like, bro, like, you're not,

you're not locked in. Like, what will it take for you to finally, like, live, like, be who you're supposed to be. And it's not until Debbie gets her arm broken that he finally, like, loses it. Right? And the problem that he's facing is like, I don't want to be like my father.

I don't want to be that guy. But in order to protect the people I love and to do my job correctly, I have to tap into that. How do I reconcile that? And I think the show does a pretty great job of making that his central problem. Now, there are ancillary stuff

that do get in the way a little bit. I don't think the I don't honestly I'm fine with the Angson-Wevey thing of how like it was again that's probably because you know you read the comics

you know how these these things go but at the end of the day like he's just a dude who Invincible one time blew up and was like Invisible again Visible didn't care Visible's like

Who are you? Oh yeah you that you that one guy You know we're supposed to be seeing it from his point of So we're like, oh, is, oh, yeah, that's the guy from the beginning. And we do spend time with him. And in the first episode, we spent a lot of time with him in this episode where he's

going through all the different realities. And I got a shout out, Stephen Yoon, because he plays Invincible, the Mark Grayson, we know, kind of like, not I'm going to say aloof, but he's like, he's finding his way, right? He's so unconfident in his abilities. But then you go to the Invincibles of the. the other universes, right? And when he, man, he goes to the kid with the Fox.

He's like, oh, Hankstrom, tough scene. I'm going to kill your son. And it's like there's a level of confidence there. And so, like, being able to do that, I know, like, you know, a lot of actors and actresses play multiple roles. But, like, for a character that we know to be not so confident himself, like, we know it's there for him. So shout out Steve Yune for doing that. Ultimately, to Van's point, I liked this episode a lot. And I do think the main problem with this four episodes is the break.

If this all comes out, even if it comes out, like, they do the three drop at the beginning and then five episodes each week for the next five weeks. I think we talk about it a little differently than we are. They just... Nah, I'd get the same review. I think... Really? You think so? I don't know.

I don't think so. I think that it's a bit twofold. I think it's because the middle of this season is a lot weaker than it's beginning and its end. And frankly, I don't think I would want to change anything about this finale. I think I would only want to change the way that we set up this finale. I mean, honestly, this also might be what I'm bumping up against. I think I know I'm burnt out on the multiverse stuff. And they even have a little bit of a jab at like Spider-Verse.

Fair. Shout out Josh Keane for coming back. So when like Invincible in the comics, he teams up with Spider-Man. obviously they can't get the rights, whatever. Right, right, right. And I do think there is a level of, like, we've seen so much multiverse shit

and we've seen so much of it pulled off badly. It almost seemed like the multiverse stuff this season was almost tacked on, and I know it wasn't. But, like, we start the first episode of this season, seeing a different version of Mark. And I was like, okay, is this season going to be about, like, oh, if all of these different marks in these different universities are evil,

what makes our mark different? And they kind of hint at that. They kind of talk about that in this season finale, but I was like, I don't know. I've kind of seen so much multiverse stuff. It just kind of being whatever in the season finale felt a little bit like, oh, okay, sure, all right. Invincibles with different costumes.

All right. So I think that's, I think what makes this mark different, is what this entire last show is about. And if that didn't come across for you, I could see why it didn't work for you. And I think them showing us why our mark is different is almost the entire point of the show.

Tell you why I'm saying this. So Anström Levy's character has a very pure motivation. He just can't trust Mark. You can't trust him. he's gone crazy about it. He can't trust Mark. The mark that he's seen that person, he's seen that person do terrible things,

terrible things. And he just doesn't believe that the person that he's looking at is incapable of doing terrible things, like killing a poor kid that's trying to play with a nice, domesticated fox of some sort. And you're going around,

like cutting people's heads off, all of that. When you see that brutality, you start to understand why he's so desperate and why he's so mistrustful of our mark. Then you see

our mark. You see our mark come to terms with the fact that he's killed someone and what that means and what that loss of control means for him. It's an interesting place to start with a hero

in terms of Invisible. What I mean is like Superman comes from this incredibly noble group of people. Not all of them, but his line of those people is incredibly noble, right? You're going to come here to Earth. You're going to save them. Your dad, Jarrell was the scientist that was telling everybody that how they were using

up Krypton and everything that was going on in Krypton was going to lead to the end of the planet. You're going to be a beacon of hope that comes from a place that's hopeless and you're going to go to Earth and show them that. Mark is completely the inverse, of course, right? he is actually a harbinger of destruction that through his human connections becomes a beacon of hope. His entire journey as a hero isn't about saving people, in my opinion, as much as it's about not becoming who he really is.

And he takes a step closer to that in this episode, and it pulls him apart. It guts him. even when he's flying, he's thinking about what his dad is saying. He's flying, he's thinking about what his dad is saying. His dad is saying, hey, everybody that you know is going to die. They're all, they're a speck in the world. And while he's flying, I'm thinking, that's Mark's reality. There's nothing he can do to avoid that.

Like every single day that he's a human being is cosplay. Every single day. There's not a villain that Mark, can fear as much as what's already inside of him. Nobody. Not Angstrom, not, not fucking the other viltrumites. The biggest fear that Mark has is what's already inside of him. The least he can do, the only thing that gives him purpose is protecting the people

that he loves for as long as he's going to be on earth. The only thing that gives him purpose. And he felt like he failed. that's the one thing that can make him turn into what he really is is the idea that the people that he loves are in peril or in jeopardy. So hey, you broke my mom's arm. Fucking ghastly. Jesus Christ, you took a love for the team.

You broke my mom's arm. You threatened my my little brother. If I can't protect them, I might as well turn into a villain. and if I can't protect them, I kind of am. There's nothing left for me to be but a villain. The futility of him fighting against Anström, who was sending him all of these different places,

not beating him up in the same way they were used to seeing Mark get beat up with the blood everywhere, just more taking him away from the people that he loved, taking him away from them, like playing fetch with him, throwing him to different spots,

confusing him. You saw Mark, unravel mentally as he's wondering how long he's been gone and what's happening while he's gone and all of that. The humanizing of the show is what I like the show, what I like about the show. You have an insane villain that's driven by very real reasons against a superpower hero whose fragility actually comes from his condition as a human being. That's like what I like about Invincible. Like that's what I dig about the show. I thought this was one of the best episodes of Invincible ever.

Even the stuff with Adam, with Adam Eve, they come back, they're older, they found Mark, they don't want to tell him anything. She can't help but say, hey, how about not letting me live the next 20 years of my life wondering about whether or not there's love between us? Like, just say something. Make my life easier. love, connection, all of that. Yeah. And then he still can't do it, right? Mm-hmm.

And so to me, I love the episode so much that it just made me frustrated a little bit overall. Right. That I wasn't closer to this episode of Invincible, this season of Invincible, that there were some things,

there were some glitches in it that took me away from it. When the DNA of the show, the show that I love is like still there. It's the same show. It's and it's operating at that level when it gets to that level, when the continuity is there. We just were taken away for reasons that have to do with production and maybe some mistakes that they made, you know?

And even the Allen, even the Allen and Omneman's stuff. I was about to almost say that. Everything that they did in the episode worked for me. Everything. That ending scene. And that's why I'm really interested in why Charles is like, nah, I'm out. That scene, I mean, I think I miss my life is crazy after calling her a pet in the season one finale. That's nuts, right?

But him, the thing we liked most about the season one of the show was Mark and Omni Man's relationship. Like how, when they figure out what's going on, how will they come back? And we saw it again in this season when Mark and Omni Man came together. Like, that's the show at its best, honestly, is when they're going back in the way. forth and like Mark has to like understand like where his dad is coming from they've tried to parse their relationship. Him sitting there and realizing like, oh man, I might have made a mistake. That's real.

That's like, oh, yeah. He's, he's turned to leave. Oh, like what's Mark and Omni Man's next connection going to be like when it's like, hey, man, by the way, you know, all that stuff? My bad. You know, I do kind of feel bad. Last time I didn't feel as bad, but now I actually do feel bad. Now, we're on the same team now.

Like, yeah, let's go. Like, that's exciting. Mm-hmm. That's great. And credit to the show, because I know that, like, the Invincible Comics are a vast world to adapt. And there's a lot to cover after the Omneman turn, and especially after the Mark and Omneman fight. And I think the problem that the show comes across with.

its middle season and bookending it so well is the fact that it has to lay all this groundwork for other things that are taking away from the heightened drama that is basically Mark's struggle, his family, all of the Viltramites, and everything else because if we move away too far from Allen or if we go too far with like the guardians or whatever, like it's tough to really anchor yourself back to what really is the beating heart of the show and that's Mark. And like the boys do it kind of well, but like that's a human drama with like taking a lot more liberties away from the comics and its source material.

This wants to be a lot more faithful to it while also kind of biting off a little bit more than it can choose sometimes. And I would say that it's hard to really know what to subtract from this story after knowing exactly what we have. But like, I think if I think the biggest lesson for episode three that I have. hope the show takes is that it doesn't need to try to spin all of those plates and that what really works and I think what continues to work is the actual formula of Mark and his family. So you want them to cut tech jacket? Yeah, maybe cut tech jacket. You're a sicker man.

I mean, I'm happy, you know, you guys, I'm glad it's the plain way. Hey, man, look, I liked it. That's cool. Actually, you guys always think I'm lying when I say. I'm like, I'm not. We know you're not lying, but I kind of feel like that Norman Rockwell mean, but a dude standing up looking at the sky, and I was like, I liked season two of Invincible. I think I'm going to be the one, I'm going to be the outlier.

Like, I think a lot of people would be like, oh, the season finale was dope. And I just think, like, I'm being 100% honest. I was, I think I was using this season two as kind of like a test case for me to be like, are you actually interested in this adaptation? Are you interested in the Invincible TV show? And I was like kind of looking for something that I was like, I watched the season, I was like, oh, the show is just not for you. Like, it's just, and that's totally fine.

Like, you're an invincible fan. You're just not a fan of this show. This show is just doing something different. And I think that's like, like, right. I think after season one, the reason I was just like, yeah, we should do invisible season two. It's like, after season one, that Omni Man fight kind of was just like, oh, shit. Like, they adapted this really, really well. this felt so intense.

Like, oh my gosh, I feel for Mark. And I think I was, like, waiting for that moment. Not an Omni Man Invincible fight, but that emotional feeling. And after season two, I was just like, I just don't, it's just not for me. When you say that they've burnt you, so there's nothing that the show could do to get you back. You're off of it. You feel like, no, it's not. This isn't me saying like, oh, the show was so bad.

I'm never returning to it. It's more so. I don't find what the show is doing and how it's doing it, like interesting in terms of like what I find interesting and about Invincible. And I just think that might be a limitation, honestly, of the medium because there was even points where I'm like, Stephen Youn is a really, really good Mark. He's a great actor.

He's one of my favorite actors. But there was a moment when Mark is like freaking out and talking to himself after he kills Engstrom where I did feel almost where I'm like, Stephen's Stephen June's performance as a voice actor has this emotion but what I'm watching on screen

doesn't necessarily capture the depth and nuance of it. In the same way like the older Adam Eiff thing did not necessarily work for me that much because I was just like no I can hear emotionally what I'm supposed to be feeling like I'm

taking in all this information but visually it's not matching up for me. It does not look as dramatic. It does not feel as weighty. Same thing when Mark kills Anxham. I was like, oh, that's violent. But I wasn't scared. I wasn't sad.

It was just like, oh, okay, cool. And I just think... You weren't sad for Mark? No, I wasn't. And I've been, and that's a weird thing where I had been sad for Mark. What do you feel like the Invincible comic does well when you say that? What does it do well? I think it's a different medium. And I think Robert Kirkman, the reason why Invincible was never the juggernaut that Walking Dead was,

was that I keep saying this again again. He's like, Invincible is a love letter to comics. Like, Engstrom, when he arrives on the scene in the comic books, we're at a point when they're doing big, sweeping, infinity crisis, final crisis, all of these heroes are coming out of the woodwork. And, you know, Robert Kirkman is a very smart writer, and he's looking at all this.

and Engstrom is not only just a villain, he's kind of representative of a moment that happens in comic books with crisis on infinite earth where it's like, we have infinite Superman and what does it mean? Did it all this?

But I think what the invincible comic, when you take all that scaffolding away, does really, really well, is that the art and the emotion of it are so visceral. It's such a bright-looking comic. It is such a detailed-looking comic. The reason that it never really came out on time

is because it was, Sometimes I was like, how is Ryan Otley even drawing this level of detail? And there's just not that level of detail to the show for a variety of reasons. That's fine. But that's what I think makes it hard to hit those emotional beats in a TV show. Because also we're talking about actors who aren't necessarily voice actors as well. So even when Stephen Yoon's like acting well and I'm just like, oh, I see this. Sometimes I'm just like, oh, I don't know if this matches the cartoon.

and that's what I think is kind of what like sometimes I bump up against yeah but it's fine you know for people that are that are having the same issue that you're having you're saying that the cartoon the comic book

is a reaction to comic books of that time and the cartoon is not no the cartoon is trying to do that what I'm more so saying is that it's in the reason like something like walking dead is easier to adapt is because a they went the

live action route be you're already the cinematic tropes that you're touching upon in the zombie genre people already know it and then walking dead is about zombies it was a zombie time it was donna the dead it was zombie land it was all of that it was like the reason why well like walking dead there was a zombie renaissance of america there was it like walking dead's uh uh popularity both on television and the comic book has to do with the fact that from, I guess, 2005, partly at least, between 2005 to whatever, we got as much zombies as we can handle.

We made a lot. Yeah, we never talk about this. We never talk about the zombie era. Zombie land, World War Z, 28 days, 28 weeks later, 28 days later, 28 years later, 28 motherfucking millennia later, 28 niggas. later. 28.

Like, weed men later. 28 rappers later. All of this shit we got. We got that. We got the one with Nicholas Holt. The rom-com where he was a fucking zombie. He was a zombie. And started fucking falling in love and becoming a human.

Bro, I looked at that shit. I looked at the movies and watched that. I looked at that shit. Not a bad movie. I went. I was like, oh shit. Zombie that turns. There was daybreak. on fucking Netflix

I actually fucked with that show Daybreak on Netflix Zombie zombie zombie zombie So part of the zombies To me I mean obviously superhero stories Are very

It's much the same thing But I think Invincible as being a super violent I think it had more work to do Super violent Hyper In terms of being A huge deal

Like a zombie story or like that. I think it had a little bit more work to do, even here on the cartoon side of things. And the reason why I'm asking this and staying on this before we move away is because Invincible is going live action. Yes, yeah.

And Invincible going live action, I think it's a fair question for us to ask. Are there parts of the story that might work better for us in live action? Or after two seasons of watching this, or there are a lot of people out there like Charles that are basically saying this story,

this angle, these characters, this deal, they just aren't compelling. Well, so can I, I will say this. I also think what I'm,

once again, I think I'm the outlier. I think a lot of people might still like Invincible. I do think I have seen the excitement just die down just in terms from the first season. But I think what I'm talking about is like

when I'm reading Invincible as a child, we're not yet inundated with the superhero renaissance. So a lot of the things that they're talking about in the book, a lot of the storylines still feel fresh in a way where it's like, is the boys still successful if it premieres in 2024? Probably not.

The boys, there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of craft to the boys, but there's also a lot of luck where it's like, when it drops on Amazon Prime, the MCU is firing on all cylinders. We still have faith in D.C. and then Amazon Prime comes with the boys and we're like, oh shit,

they're doing something so radically different. Invincible comes after the boys now where it's just like, well, I've seen the violent cartoon before. I've seen violent DC movies. Batman was snapping. I mean, Superman was snapping motherfuckusiness neck. Batman was killing people. Like I, the things that I think were exciting to me

about Invincible, just from a narrative perspective, the things that it was poking at and making fun of and subverting, that subversion works a little bit, less on me, 15 years after just like I've seen superheroes do everything. That's what I was talking about with the dimension hopping. It's like for any superhero movie or TV show now to be interesting to me in a multiversal context, well, it at least has to be approaching what Spider-Verse gave me. Because if it's not, I'm like, what are we doing? I think that's a lot of the problem with the MCU movies now where it's like, no, I'm used to seeing multiple versions of Spider-Man

Doctor Strange. That's not enough. I need the emotional shit. And I just did not get that. And that's... I mean, it's kind of fair. I do think holding everything to a spotterverse level of a, you know... That's an 11 on all accounts.

It's his opinion. I mean, yeah, but like... Well, I'll ask you this, because we all do it. How many of the multiverse stories after Spider-Ver. have we kind of been like, because we see how it can be done. So this is my thing with that. My thing is there's a,

there's a difference between the story having multiversal elements and a story being like a multiversal story. Give an example, devs. Oh boy. Tram lines. Way back. Like devs is a story

that has to do with many worlds, multiverse, but more like a computer. sort of synthetic version of it. But devs still works really well for me at least because there's a lot of new ground being broken in devs and it's essentially a story

about more than being just about that. It's about tech, the human condition, immortality, what being alive is, how much you're willing to fight for that, what you're willing to lose, unanswered questions, all of that stuff, which any good

story really is about, right? I think the superhero stories work best any story works best when it asks you questions about the condition that you understand or a condition that you understand and the multiverse can be used to do that right the multiverse can be used to like fringe like watching Friends right

and like French was fantastic and then and then I think either in the first second or in fringe the first season of fringe or the second season of fringe you you learn that Peter is not the Peter of the world that he exists in. That his fault, that Peter died. Like, spoilerless for friends. Yeah, that Peter died.

And his father was so sad. He was so overcome with grief that he actually kidnapped a version of his son from another world. Right. And he's raising that Peter. And I'm like, fuck! Right.

Like, that would fuck with my head. You don't know. to me? Like that that that that that that that fucks with you so you can use it as a device to make your story better, which honestly is I kind of I feel like more along the lines of what invincible did in the second season. We didn't spend that much time with the multiverse. We didn't. But I think you needed to for me to care because I get what you're saying like it's like it's like time travel. It's like what is the time travel revealing about the story and like are you just using this as a cool device. And I like, I like, like you said, I don't disagree with what you said emotionally about

what this season was about. I understand what Mark's journey was. It just felt like, all right, I got a little angstrom in the beginning. I got a little angstrom in the end. And then I essentially saw a bunch of evil marks, which is also like, all right, evil Superman. I've seen so many evil Superman at this point. I've seen so many like people who are like Superman standings chopping off people's necks. I'm like, oh, okay. So then what, so I guess them, so I mean, what I was actually saying was that it, the fact that it, I didn't get a lot of multiverse, because if you get one thing too many times, I feel you. The fact that I didn't get a lot of multiverse was better for me because I'm looking at it. I'm like, you know what?

This guy's afraid of a mark that he's never met. And the only way for that to exist is in the multiverse. Also, his power. He's not a brawler, even though he becomes, I guess, okay at it since he's had his shit. all upgraded and enhanced. So his, the multiverse to me and the way that Anxham Levy uses it against Mark was a device to create distance between him and his family. It was like, I can send you away.

As mad as you are at me, you can charge me and attack me, and with a blink of my eyes, snap on my fingers, I can send you away. I can send you so far away from these people that, you don't know what I'm doing to them. I can send you so far away from them that I, that you never have to get back. And that's Mark's biggest fear. And it's the only fear that he is going to have to actually come to terms with

the fact that he has to say goodbye to all of them. And it pushes him further than he ever wanted to go. It makes him into something that he didn't want to be. And seeing him on that island like that and knowing that that's his future, that is, essentially what they did was they fast forwarded you. One day he is going to be the guy on that desert planet by himself alone, no one around him, still looking basically the way he looks now or the way his father looks,

and he's going to have to continue to find meaning in that only there'll be no 20-year-older guardians of the globe to save him. They won't be. He'll have to figure out how to make his life mean something. and he's there, he's doing it, he's figuring it out, and it's driving him crazy right now. So I haven't read the comic books. I am super interested in what the realization of that

and coming to terms with that means for the character and how it changes him. Does he become a little bit more savage? Does he become a little bit more guarded? Was this too much reality for him? Like I, they got me back in. And I thought that the multiverse was a device to get that. it wasn't about that.

It wasn't because like, you know, I like, you guys love Spiderverse. I liked it. I thought it was good. There was too much multiversal shenanigans

and that for me. That's what the whole fucking thing is about. So, so to me, I like the fact that it was a device to pull something

out of the character rather than the whole season being about that. I mean, to be clear, I do not want a whole season of multiverse invincible. Keep that.

you love it. You love it. All right. That's it. Invincible season two is over. Charles has canceled it. That's a cancel from Charles. The show is not coming back.

Cancel the check base. I mean, the show's coming back. It's just like if y'all motherfuckers in two, three years, it's just like, yo, Charles, we're doing Invincible. I'm like, catch me later. Make sure the whole season's finished first. Yeah. Yeah.

Just finish the shit and bring it back because, yeah, I don't think the show has the narrative power, honestly to take out huge breaks in between. Very few shows do, by the way. Right. I can't think of very many shows that I love. Oh, we're taking the midseason break. Man, finish this shit.

Man, do you remember, like, I think the second, I think it was the second to last, or the last season of Breaking Bad did that midseason break? And that was like, it was when Hank was on the toilet and he found out that he was, he was Eisenberg. I know, but they had the juice, bro. That was, that was crazy. That was crazy.

I mean, Ozard did it, and I didn't like it when they did it. Yeah, no. Ozark stopped about it. I know. Stranger Things did it, right? Tadjee's just like, ah, we'll give you guys seven episodes. I mean, Stranger things at this point is just like, we're going to give you three episodes. I was like, all right.

The kids are 40 years old now. All right, midnight meter. Of course, you guys know the midnight meter scale from 1 to 10, ranking film and TV shows with the Secretary 11 and 12 reserve for pivotal game changes. Can somebody look up real quick what we gave the first season of Invincible? Oh, yeah. I'm on it. I'm going to go first here.

I'm going to give Invincible season two and eight. Eight. Okay. I'll go and give it a seven. Seven feels right for me. Jomey? I'm going to give it an eight as well. Okay.

Yeah, this is, I don't feel great about Jonas, but this is a five. Okay. Yeah, it's five out of ten for Charles. Five out of ten. So what do we give the first season? of Invincible. I'm looking at at midnight meter. I don't think we have it for that.

Wait, we didn't have it. Oh, we didn't have it back then. It was too early. They didn't have it back then. There was no midnight meter. Wow. Wow. This episode is brought to you by Nass Energy.

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Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. All right. Enough Invincible. It's time to go back to feudal Japan. Shogun, Shogun, Shogun. Steve, give me a spoiler warning for Shogun.

We're getting ready. to talk about Shogun. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Steve,

somebody said that the Shogun in drop should be you saying Shogun in that podcast. We got a couple more episodes I can't live I can't live with that. You can, though.

It's already on wax. You might as well. Might as well. Might as just run it back. Yeah. Yeah, we'll think about that. All right. Lots of stuff going on

in this show. You have to know this before we get into it in order to do that. Goddamn, same shit. Chuck, take it away. All right, we're back with the Midnight Manifest for Shogun, a stick of time directed by Takeshi Fukenaga, written by Matt Lambert.

We begin with a flashback of a young Torinaga winning his first battle. Being asked to be the second to the warloid Mizakuchi, who was about to commit Sapuku after surrendering. And the president, Toranaga, welcomes his brother, Saki, to the village so he can request his help and that of his army against the regents.

The rest of the cast spins out as it becomes clear that Toranaaga has been backed into an unwinnable corner. Toranauga eventually agrees to march to Osaka and accept his fate and Aye Doom. Nakakado sets a trap for his uncle with the help of Kiku, but a slippery stone leads Toranauga's son to die before he can kill his uncle, and that has been your Midnight Manifest for Shogun.

Chuck, give it up. Yeah, I think what I'm continually impressed with Shogun about is I think that this episode, in any other team's hands would have been, because this episode is smaller, it's more contained. You know, there's not all this, there's not any war breaking out or an earthquake or whatever, but the tension is still just so high,

and it's showing us something that we haven't really seen. We've seen Toranaga on the back foot. We have yet to see Toranaga backed into a corner where he's just like, I don't know how I'm, gonna get out of this. And I just, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time because the show has done such an amazing job of making us really understand how much of a tactical genius Toranauga is. So when he, by the end of the episode, he's like, oh, no, man, I'm going to Osaka. I'm like, dog, man, you ain't going to pull out one. It's like the Don Draper thing. You always

expect Don Draper to kill it in the meeting. No matter if he doesn't have anything, you're just like he's going to do something. He's going to pull it out. and Toranaga not having it. I was like, bro, this, man, this season of television is on an entirely different level. What about you, Vin? Fucking fantastic.

Look, here's the thing. I don't think anything really big ever happens in Shogun. When I think about it, there's set pieces. We had the ship set piece. There's the forest. The ship set piece was one,

but there's no like Battle of the Bastards or... It's not that type. or like hard home or anything like that, right? So the show, I'm settling into that about the show. The show is pretty contained in terms of what's going on. The only thing, like, I wouldn't call Shogun like an action show. There's not a lot.

I mean, people get fucked up. Don't get me wrong. There's some motherfuckers that got fucked up in this bitch. I ain't going to lie. People with the goddamn heads blown off and, you know, people getting their heads chopped off and all kinds of shit like that. Slipping on rocks. Yeah.

Yeah, like, slipping on rocks. I'm so happy. Man, that rock is the MVP. Sliping on rocks. Dog. Kendall Toranaga went out so sad,

bro. They got my boy Fredo, bro. That rock right there is my dog. Like, if I could buy that rock, do you know that,

you know how they do on the rewatchables if they were like, what piece of memorabilia could you have from this? The rock. That little weak chin motherfucker,

it was time for him to go down. Okay? That little... Wait, wait. My quick question. It was time for him to go down. What?

So was, I got the sense, I wanted to ask you, Van, was that hit that he takes out on his uncle, sanctioned, or is he once again

going off on his own trying to handle shit? Because I'm like, I have no fucking plan, bro. No, there's no way. I know that the lady from the willowing wind

or the wind of the willows Wind in the Willows or something I thought Willow World World Is Toad from Winn of the Willows

and Shogun? Hey y'all don't I never read Wind in the Willows I love Wind of the Willows It's one of my favorite stories As a kid What?

Yeah Y'all just throwing words together I don't know Van you know Wind of the Willows right? I don't know Wind of the Willows I'm saying

I'm wind in the willows Yeah I'm talking Motorcars and Badger The lady from the Wondering Willow What's it called Willow World Willow world?

Willow World. She basically called out Tornaga and was like, I don't think you're up to something, motherfucker. Yeah. It doesn't seem like that that you're the type of person

that would get into this situation. So after she said that, I was waiting for the other sandal to drop for the entire show. I was like, what is up? And I, because of that, it was great writing, I still don't know

what the hit on the uncle really meant. So here's what I think happened, right? Like, speaking of Jin in the Willow World, like, I think she noticed, she's like, hey, your brother surrounded us pretty easily. For somebody of you, we know what you're about. We're familiar with your game. It seems kind of unlikely that you would leave these gaps in your defense so that your brother would then surround you and then make sure that you go to Osaka. I don't know.

I'm just saying, if you win, I'll take some of, I'll take. some land, we'll work some amount. And then you see the end, he's doing his will. He's giving her land. In case he dies, right? And so he clearly was like, all right, you got me.

For his son, I don't, I don't know if, I think, I obviously think it's a plan, right? I think Toranaaga did, like, Jin eludes to what I think. He did it on purpose. So he's, he's ushered to Osaka. They take him to Osaka.

Now, if his brother's doing the ushering, he went to his brother for the army, right? Would his brother then now be like, ha, just kidding, I knew you'd come to me to be the regent, but I double-crossed you guys with my brother, and now you've just given his army, my army, everybody, access to Osaka just by letting us come in, like, unabated, right? To his son, that's just a dummy being a dummy, right? He's not seeing the bigger picture or something, regardless. of what... If his son carries out the whole thing,

it really changes nothing. Well, his brother has to take him to a soccer, right? No, is that the real Crimson Sky plan where it's just like maybe him and his brother have a wink, wink, nod? Yeah. Like, to your point, you just said,

like, they're walking, like it's a Trojan horse thing. You're walking us through the city. Yes. And then we're going to turn on them. Exactly. So... I know.

Well, my point, I get that. That would make sense, right? The only thing I don't understand about the hit is that if the son kills his uncle, that changes nothing. Well, because then who's...

Who's walking him through the city? That's full-blown, like, you're just killing any motherfuckers now? Well, I would assume that the... that by this point, the uncle's name is Seke? Seke.

Seah. I think, yeah. Seahe. I would assume that his troops and his uppers know the plan, right? So here's the thing. This is what I was thinking about. If they know the plan and there's already been an allegiance formed with everybody back in Osaka, does taking him out change the fact that Toranauga is surrounded and they know that what they're supposed to be doing is delivering him to Osaka?

About the plan. His brother and their folks might know. He does know about the plan because the plan, listen, listen what I'm saying. he when they're all sitting around telling stories and then he the minute that he started telling the story about the motherfucker shitting himself I know shit was going left they don't tell stories like that in front of company what the fuck you do it but yeah I shit on myself it happens you don't tell

you don't tell that story in front of everybody he then gives him the ultimatum and then he sees him he goes he gives him the ultimatum hey they want you to come and turn yourself in blah blah blah blah I would assume that the rank and file and his forces know that that's what they're supposed to do, that they're supposed to take him and bring him there. And then especially after him and his entire military company come down and Toranauga agrees to go. So if you kill him, with his troops, then all of a sudden be loyal to Toranauga?

No, so I don't think. people with the uppers in his in his forces didn't go okay well I'm saying that the son I don't think he thought it through I think it's two things I don't think Toranaaga told his son because he does not trust his son with that

information ever since he fucked up the first time and I told his son what though he didn't tell I don't think he's telling the son about to Jomi's point like when when Shadi's like yo you must have a plan

I think only a few of the most trusted Toronaga people actually know what's going on because there's spies around. So his son went off to kill his uncle, not knowing that his uncle Toranaga potentially actually are like agreed with their lines. I understand that. I'm saying that the hit on the uncle was stupid anyway.

Yes. Because I'm assuming he didn't know about whatever Torana's plan is. But the hit on the uncle is stupid anyway because I don't think it changes anything. Well, that's why I see it. Exactly. Right, exactly. So I don't think it changed.

So that was literally just my entire. But I also think that's what the episode does so well. Because I think it also does like something that I think a lot of modern TV shows really struggle with, which is they state for you every single episode. Like, yo, this is the theme of the episode, whether it's the Willow World, whether it's the Eightfold Gate, whatever. and in this episode, it's, what does this society actually find important

when they're telling stories? There's the story, there's the legend, and then there is the truth. And I think, like, a lot of this is like, we don't know if Sekai is really

on Torunaga side yet, but basically what he says to his nephew is just like, yo, death is a very lonely road and even Toranaaga is like, you keep wanting to fight

because you've never actually been to war. And there's a reason that the whole episode starts with Toranauga as the boy warlord and you're like, oh, you're seeing the legend of it and then when you hear the story where it took nine hacks,

you're like, oh, the thing that makes actually Toranauga very dangerous as a character and a tactician is the fact that like, I don't actually know if he cares about respect and all.

of this shit as much as everyone else. I think when push comes to shove, he seems annoyed with the entire thing. Yeah, he's like, I will do whatever is possible to fucking win. And that's what I think this whole entire episode was like, is this like, yo, what is the truth? Do you believe in like the legend and the customs that we've built around war? Or have you really been to war and realized like,

yo, death is a really lonely path? It's either you or me and it's going to be me. sometimes that means we can't be respectful and have all this decorum about it, which I think the episode did very well. Toranaaga said something early on that showed me that he was a little bit out of step with everyone else or looked at things in a different way. He, um, everyone is always, always interested to commit sepku, sepepacu. You know, they want to do it. Sepuku. Sepuku.

Sepuku. Listen, I'm not going to be correcting. Yeah, I'm not correcting anybody on nothing now. Correcting anybody on nothing. On nothing now? Is that how you come off? I'm not correcting. I'm not correcting nobody on nothing.

What are you trying to do? You're trying to, is this code switch? What are you doing? What? You think I'm code switching right now? I'm not correcting nobody on nothing. Yeah, because I learned my lesson last time. That sounded like N-U-F-F-I-N-A-N-A-Postrifice, nothing.

I don't quite Can we get back to Shook? Christ. I love, the thing about Tornaga that I love is you mentioned this van. Everybody's problems are so trivial to him. Everything that somebody got a problem with, he's like so annoyed.

Blackthorn obviously trying to do the canon stuff. Him, his BS with Madico, and then Boutot. Bro. Amen. this dog, he's going out so sad. Look, dog, he keeps looking at my girl. I want to kill him.

I'm on his side. But Toranaug is like, hey man. I'm on his side, bro. Y'all, this is what these stories do. What I was going to say about Tornaaga is Tornaga. Tornaga said early on, it's like, all of this needless death. All of this death, like, whatever. Everybody else, it seems like their way out, it's a cultural thing,

but he goes all of this needless death. I was like, ah, he's different. He doesn't think that all of that. It's useful. He sees the holes in some of the customs. Let me tell you something. You be somewhere with your people and somebody bringing in a white dude to fuck your wife.

You deal with that. And he's looking around. He's seeing it. He got, yeah, Steve back away. Think about this. Think about Steve just washes up to the shore, cuts his hair, fucking abs all out, tattoos. He's talking weird. He can only talk to one person.

your wife. The only person he could talk to is your fucking wife. You think you put on for the whole fucking town, you die, they think you dead, you come back, you expect that she's going to be happy. Wrong.

While you were gone, she had a cream sickle. And now she got the taste for it. Just like when a wolf gets the taste of human blood and now it's a man eater, she's a white eater. it'll never ever, ever be the same to her again, ever.

And you've got to deal with that. Counterpoint, man, counterpoint. But Taro sucks. She didn't even like him to begin with. Also, he was like, your family sucks. Fuck your daddy. I shouldn't have even married you. You're a curse.

And he beats that woman like dog. He's terrible. Fuck that, nigga. I'm not saying that he is the best. The best. The best. I'm saying that he is the best. I'm not saying that he is the best.

I'm saying that, but I'm saying that like, especially the moment that he sees he can't even hold the sword. He's like, I can't get cucked by this dude. I can't let this dude cucked me. This dude can't even hold the sword. This dude can't hold the sword. He can't get cucked by him. Wow.

Yeah, he can. No, he's a, he's a wielder of the sword. The cream sickle master, the cream sickle, master. You know how many women? And now he's all in love, man. I looked at it. This is the first time where he was like, yo, can I take his head? Please. Please

let me take it. He goes, kill your wife too. He's like, I'm not asking. I forgot that. That's not what I asked for her. I just want, that's not what I asked you, dog. I asked you, can I take this motherfucker's hair? I will say, though, it's it is kind of tough because not only does he walk in

and be like, damn, he smashed my wife. He's like, now his best friend's Fuji. I'd be pissed, too. Like, Fuji's like, Dog Fuji be keeping up the whole house. She got the hookup. It's really bad for Bichar. Like, I, I'm team Blackthorn, but, you know. You team, you team colonizer?

Well, yeah, bro. I mean, I think they really do got a connection. I'm sorry. Like, at first I was like, nah, don't do it, but now I'm here. Wait, wait, wait, whoa. Did Sis almost say confirmed that Blackthorn kind of didn't, didn't pillow with the number one, shoddy sex woman. I don't know.

I think he might have a pillow, but I don't, remember Mariko said people are always watching. So maybe he wasn't as enthused as he should have been. Or was she just telling the guy what he wanted to hear because he's so down bad. Maybe. Well, because Jane is conniving like that. She is

smart like that. I do think the miracle thing is super interesting because again her husband leaves. They're doing the will thing and Tornagas like, look. Are you with me? Are you with him? You got to pick a side.

And she's like, I just want to die. She's not even like, no, I'm with you. Forget that white boy. Nah, it's me and you. She was like, hey, man, at this point, dog, just take my life, bro. I'm done. I'm sick and this game. Here's the thing.

We got to be clear about Mariko. She's like, she's the one. But, sis, you got a one-track fucking mind. Like, you're not dying. You're not dying. You're not dying. Like, just dead it. This is why her and Blackthorn are actually soulmates

because every single time Blackthorn, like Toronag is like, Yo, Blackthorne, what's up? He's like, where are my men and my ship? And then he's like, yo, Mariko, what's up? And she's like, let me die. I'm like, if your motherfuckers don't get with the plan. Cash a question, how long has it been for these motherfuckers on the ship? Oh, I mean, it's got to be rancid, breath.

They have to have lost all hope. Smells crazy in there. Wait, they're not on the ship. They're not on the ship. ship. They're like what... I'm just saying but the people,

the people, the guys on, like, we haven't even changed. They took them away. They took them away. They have lost all hope. Tourinaga,

think about, think about how this is different. Man, Blackthorne out here getting his dick wet by the baddest women in Japan.

He got a station. He eating the finest fresh fishes that the island has to offer. He's starting trouble and dropping his nuts wherever he go. These niggas is,

eating Dale oatmeal somewhere I don't even think it's that good It might be not a Dale Nato It's a shit, bro They like whatever I don't know what they eat But like they're trying to see the sun Like it's really

It's fucked up He really not putting on for his boys Blackthorn is very ineffective It's some ineffective people On this fucking show You know who's really ineffective? Yabushiga again Nah Yabushiga's my man

His weekly L He got broke him He's like Hey man he got a gift for you He said oh man let's see that's my homie's head he already knew

he's like he already he said dang tough every week he takes he takes an L man it's one of the best parts But you're the thing I like

Yabushiga because he's like the rare like I understand why Tor and I keeps him around because he never really do too much even when he's backstabing you he's like when he gets caught he's like

ah my bad you got me you got me you got me But here's the thing, going back to Blackthorn, I got to be real. If I'm Blackthorn, I'm not complaining like this. Like, I'm not. Like, he has it set up, bro.

Like, why would you want to go back to England? It smells better here. There's not fucking rotting meat and fucking pheasants all over the fucking goddamn place. You know, you got hooked up with the shoddies. Fuji, she got the blicky on her. She's protecting you at all costs. Like, why would you want to, what do you got to go back for? I would get my aunt.

I get my man, free my man's, right? Free my guys off the block, you feel me? send them home. Hey guys, y'all really don't want to be out here because being the one white man, the town has done wonders. It's changed his life. Oh, you're thinking,

you think, do you actually, I'll ask you guys this, if you're Blackthorn, when your boys are free, do you tell them all the shit you've been getting up to, like all the fun nights? No, I've been fighting for my life.

I've been fighting for my life every day. You're not telling them? You're like, yo, Mariko? No. I'll tell them. You snitching. You saying everything? I'll tell them.

I'll tell them everything. I'll be like, yo, y'all might not be having a lot of fun, but I'm not going to lie, man. I can't kind of live. Like, I got here. I was just a regular fucking sailor in England. I might have some kids or whatever, but I come to Japan and I'm Angie and Hottomoto

the motherfucking second. Nick, I got my own shit. I got two chicks. I got one that they think I'm with. And then I got another one, the baddest one. She's just sneak in the room at night. It's crazy. It's lit.

I tell you straight up, I got a sword. I got two swords. Everybody keep giving me swords. They give me pistols. They give me all kinds. Bro, I'm telling you, y'all think we should go back. We should never go back. It's back in England for us except for bubonic plague and political disruption.

Like, they got all types of different shit here. And it's better. It's better, bro. I'm like, it's nice. I got my own horse. They brought me a pheasant. I didn't even ask for the fes. I just come back brand new.

Fezot? Is Toranauga fucking up? Because he keeps going back to Blackthorn and Marika. I'm like, you need to call Fuji up. Because Fuji actually knows what going on. And Fuji could be like, yeah, you know, they wilding. Dida-da-da-da-da-da. Let me handle this. I think like Fuji needs to step up a little bit. I think it's if Fuji's great. We're actually in her right mind to let that slide, bro. Oh, you think strategically she's just like, I'm going to let these. Y'all, because again, you know how you see your homie dealing with something? And like, that's your boy, but you also like, I got my own stuff going on. I can't really.

No, I never do. That's terrible friendship right now. That's terrible friendship. I'm going to let you deal with that. It's, it's thing. When you know somebody for a long time and you know how they operate,

right, you know, I know how that's going to end. I will, when it all falls apart, I will be there for you. But since you're not really listening right now, I'm going to let you go.

You got it. When it all comes back around, though. This is, this is deep wisdom. Like my thing is this I never forget this shout out to my homie you know who you are

I told you about being in them streets I told you right and we went to dreams and we leaving dreams I get in the car and all of a sudden a nigger pop out with a shotgun coming towards a car trying to get at us I looked at you and I told you

I was like this is it for a while nigga I mean guess who it's not going to happen to M.E. exclamation point. Me. Not happening to me. Okay? You want to be out here,

playing around, different parts of town, doing all this stuff. Ooh, I'm in the street. You want to do that? None for me. And by the way, this is both my farewell,

still my best friend. This is both my farewell for a little while, and it's also a warning that it's going to happen to you. And when it does, don't hit me up. Hey, bro, what you got on my bond?

the whole nine. No. Because we're from the same subdivision. And I'm not fucking with it. Okay? So I agree with Jomey. I'm down for you. I'm here for you.

I'm loyal. I'll put you up. I do the whole thing. But when I go, hey, nigga, I'm not going down with you. I'm like, it's not happening.

There's a problem with the black community. I never committed. Do you know I never, you know, I never committed any crimes? You know what? Do you know I never commit any crimes? Because I know my own threshold. if if if if I commit a crime with you you're snitching

hey bring the McDonald's in and the fries what's your order man I'm getting a double quarter pounder 20 piece midnuggets and a large Coke look and then it's like it's him it's him honestly I got a future just honestly that's why I never did crime I'm not going I'm not built for that I'm not built for that I'm not I just had some McDonald's. I'm not going to prison.

I would not be snitching out my friends for McDonald's. I'd have to, like, upgrade this situation. No, no, no. You were what you did you do. You tell them to get some five guys. They can bring some five guys in there. Oh, yeah. That's a new mortgage.

You know they're going to get you on that? I'm singing, bro. What fucking police department you're going to be in? Where are you going to be? You're in the police department in Dubai? They can't even afford that. That's going to blow their whole budget. Yeah, yeah, something's going to bring in my meal.

Let me ask you all a question, though. Seriously, it's very important. of, and I know we don't know quite yet what the play is, but in all-time fucked up brothers, where does this motherfucker rank? I'm talking about in terms of scar.

I'm talking about, in the list of fucked up brothers that you've seen about your brothers that ain't shit, you know what? I put Paris or Troy on there too. Okay. Because Paris wasn't,

Paris wasn't a treacherous motherfucker, but he ruined everybody's lives. like everyone's lives he ruined him so in the list of fucked up brothers where would you put Tornaga's brother ooh I see like Cain and Abel no jury's out

if he for real is leading his brother to death it's it's got to be like fucking top 10 if there's a play that's happening he might be he might go down is going to have one yeah season finale is going to have to bear fruit for that yeah I can't just sell him out

right now not knowing but like right now it's not looking great. Like, because here's the thing, too, you can't come into a man's house all his boys are around and just be like, yo, let me tell y'all, this motherfucker would be shitting on himself.

Like, I would have thrown hands. That's crazy. Bro, come on. That's the one story you don't got to tell, bro. Right here, bro. Like, hey, man, real talk. Hey, y'all have a good night.

Hey, man. I got to put you aside, man. Like. And in front of your son, in front of your seat, like, nah, I told you about my IVS and confidence. I mean,

I mean, here's things one thing to, like that's your nephew, you know what I'm saying? Like, ah, look at your daddy, your dummy. Like, all right, cool, like, whatever. But, like, all my people, people who respect me, people who are, like, basically worship me. He'd be like, hey, this dude was doodle on his pants. But that's how you know that was down for Toradogging,

because they started grabbing their swords like, you ain't going to talk about him? I was like, y'all right? They know that the moment that the talk of shitting on himself comes out, that there's nothing that can come back from that. I had a homeboy that shited on himself at the student union one time at Southern University 2002. Jesus Christ. And it was bad.

It was bad. It was really, it was like super bad. And I remember you would ask him about it and he'd be like, shit, they ain't stopping no diarrhea. And I was like, whoa. Jesus. Hey. It was bad. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. There was no extenuating circumstances as to why he couldn't get to a bathroom. So I don't know about what he was going through. Right. All I know is that he had these blue wind pants on him. Oh, God. And I remember we sat in there and I'm like, I'm looking around like, and then I see something down his leg.

I'm like, bro, are you fucking. Oh, he's not even like reacting? He's not doing anything? He, so he was, so look, so he tried to walk up and act like nothing was wrong. And he's talking to us. And I see his, I see his. face change. Oh, no.

And then I also see something go down his leg. And I start to smell something. And it was one of the weirdest moments I'm like, dog, are you fucking, I thought it was pissing on himself at first. And then he's like, no, he's like, man, I got to use the bathroom.

And so then he goes to the bathroom, leaves a little trail of it, right? He goes to the bathroom. And then the janitor comes out, cleans it up. And so then we have to go to his crib, as he stays in the bathroom, we got to go get crib, get towels and all of that stuff, and then come back to help

him out. Now, here's the thing. This story now is part of the ether of the crew. It's part of what we do. The question is, when is it okay for us to bring this story out? This is reminded me of this. When is okay for us to bring the story? So do you say, y'all at the party with the shotties, are you bringing this up in front of them while you're making? One time. One time. No, y'all fucked out. No, that's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. It's so foul, bro.

That's not so well. It was his brother. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I didn't bring it up. It was his brother. It was his brother. It was literally just like this. It was his brother one time.

Because this guy was the biggest of us. He was the strongest of us. He was the best fighter. And he would always talk shit. But his little brother one time was like, shit, man, I tell you what. I tell you where you wouldn't so tough. When you left that streak trail,

that Hershey trail, that Hershey trail in the bathroom in the union, you wasn't so tough. And they're like, what are y'all talking about? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, B, don't do. Seriously, nigga, you're going to ruin the whole night And the niggas started putting the drive

And it got physical in the whole nine Of course Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, they started scrapping? Yeah, yeah, you have to. Oh, man, you have to. You have to. You have to, bro. There's no other way.

I'm not in front of the shotties, bro. I'm never fighting my man in front of the shitties. You literally have to fight back. No. Imagine we all at a spot, everybody getting along. Little situation, I'm like, yo, man. Remember Charles at that dumb thing that none of the women are going to talk to you now

to rest of the night, they're going to sit alone by yourself. No, no, no, no. That's when you, the big homies got to be like, all right, you know what? We, like, you got to be, like, to lazy. You're going outside. Like, you just have to, like, like, you've got to piece it up outside. I mean, yeah, piece it up. One, bang, bang, one, too.

Nah, man. It's not, nah. You're a bad friend, man. You're a bad friend. You should have stopped it. He was like, yo, hey, bro. He literally was like, oh, bro, chill. Don't do this.

Are you sure? Are you sure he was like, yo, man. Like, for real, shut the fuck up. I was out. Really what I did was warn him. I'm like, he's not going to want to do this. It's too much. Because that was a disgusting situation.

That sounds terrible. It's the fact that he was unfazed by the fact that he's just shadowed himself. He walked in. We were talking for a second. Did he shit himself before he walked in the room? No. Okay. So we're in, so on the yard, there's the hallway,

and then there's the food area and stuff off to the left. Now, this was not during lunchtime. this was later on. Y'all was in college, so y'all know that y'all student union was the most popping at like one. Uh-huh. Right?

12 to 2, whatever. Yeah. But like, four, five, six, it's not that many people in there. Right? I mean, it's not that many people eating.

It's not that many people in there. So we all in there chilling because our boy was like, he was doing a fraternity thing. And so I was coming to pick him up from that so he could hide my car from the motherfucking campus. And, and, um,

So we all in there talking, he walks in, I don't know what was going on. We're staying there for a second. I just look, and he looked kind of out of it. And I'm looking, I'm like, what's good? And I'm like, what the fuck? So he shot himself before he got there. He might have. And so, and then he just go, man, I got to use the bathroom, bro.

And then he walks in there and use the bathroom. That's so messed up. Because somebody go get him something. Somebody go run, get him something. Go back to get himself. We had to get it. We had to, niggas had to, he had to throw the fucking shit away. and it was in the trash in there.

It was the whole night. It was fucked up. It's disgusting. But my point is this, if one of y'all pissed or shit on yourselves, I'm not telling. Thank you, Van. Thank you so much.

Appreciate you. You got to take that to the grade with the boys, you know what I'm saying? I'm not telling. All right. So, but Shogun is cooking with grease. Three episodes of Shogun is one of the best shows I've seen in a while. Yeah, man.

It's cooking. I love it. Having good time. It's real TV. X-Men Quicky. That's what Magneto and Rogue Beaton. Not in the danger of. We're getting ready to talk about

You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. The need to know is the place to go And the only one to do. Okay, that's fine. Mojo is so stupid. They go to the video game world, y'all.

All right, let's go. Charles, give me your reaction. I think we touched upon it last time we were talking where we were like, does this show have a pacing issue? And this was the episode, it was like, oh, no, I actually do think that this show is like, very faithfully doing the Saturday morning cartoon thing where it's just like, oh, y'all trying to fit a lot of story

into 22, 23 minutes. I think, yeah, it was just like, we got the most. thing with Sunspot and Jubilee, which, okay, a little filary. Hully unnecessary. And then I just felt like they're adapting a very, very famous storm storyline. And I thought that that kind of got short trift. I thought it was a little bit truncated. Because by the time, Forge is like, I love you.

I'm like, we've spent a total of like a day. Yeah, like what is happening? It's been 15 minutes. I was like, Forge, what are you doing right now? What do you do it? And maybe in the timeline of the show, it's been like weeks for them. But watching it, I'm just like, well, wait, what the fuck is hat? Like, it felt, I'm not the only one who felt like the storm story.

I was like, no, if we had a whole episode with this. And then like at the end, Forge is like, no, I actually love you. And Storm's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? I thought it was, I thought it was great. No, I think what I do, I do agree with the Ford's Storm thing was very, like, you know, short. It was almost like an episode of SpongeBob where you got one 11-minute episode and you got another 11-minute episode

and went a 30-minute block, whatever, and you're like, oh, cool, do these things have anything to do with each other? No. Right. All right, cool. I felt like the Storm Forge stuff was impactful. I think the thing that really got me, though,

was the juxtaposition of Sunspot and Jubilee and Storm and Forge because Jubilee and Sunspot have their moment. It's real nice. 18th birthday You know That's the boy

Fantastic Forges in there like Yo Storm you're a goddess You're a queen That's he He's way too strong Way too strong

Maybe they've been locked in for like Three months Maybe it's been You know Well you don't know how much time They spent together You're queen Even without your powers

Ma Get the fuck out of you In the eyes Oh get the fuck out of it Smack the shit out of it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on for a second. I got a, I got to call y'all real quick. Can y'all decide who y'all are?

Because y'all, I need y'all to decide who you are. Half the time, you guys are limp, dick, woke, j-gmy cucks. Okay, half the time it's, don't say this, don't say this. Now, all of a sudden, it just turned into the Andrew Tate podcast. What? So you mean to tell me. Right to smack the shit out of. Forge.

Wait, wait, what, you mean to tell me that Ford's can't tell Storm that she is a queen and she is all of that. You guys are too macho. I was trying to get into her band. I never seen it. Hold on. This group right here. Nobody said he couldn't say that.

It's too macho for that. Well, wait, was he trying to get into her pants when he said? Like, I'm like, say that in the beginning. Reveal all the shit. He's like, hey, sorry. I actually did help kind of build the machine that stole your powers. And I love you. And Ma, you're so sexy even without your powers.

to make babies. Like, that's the wrong fucking order. So let me tell you something. He has to, if it's me, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not telling you I made the machine. Yeah. Like, if it's me, I made this machine that day didn't exist. If it's, if it's me, I never understand stuff like that. I just got to tell you something. I'm not that type of guy. I don't have to tell you.

I think this is the age guy I'm talking right now. Yeah. Okay. I don't have to tell you. I don't have to tell you nothing. No, if you, hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on.

If you ask me, no, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Just wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. If we're in a situation to where it's like, who made this machine, I might be like, yo, I'm the motherfucker that I have something to do with that shit. But if you think I'm a ruin a perfectly good Saturday

by rolling in here and just being like, yo, I just got to tell you something. I made the machine. Where does that get us? Number one, I'm trying to help you. See, that's how I know y'all, y'all don't, y'all still young. Like, I'm trying to help you.

This is nuts. And where to get forged. Where to get forged. What, like, I'm trying to help you figure this situation out. In good faith. A situation, no, not in good face. A situation that you caused. But inadvertently, I wasn't even trying to do that.

Right? So I know that I'm trying to, to help you. I want you to get your powers back. I made you some bison meatloaf, whatever fuck. I'm like chili. Chili. And like we, we eating the whole. I know that I'm trying to do this. So I know I'm in the right place. Why ruin it?

Now you're not even going to trust me. I might need to tell you to do something that would help you because I'm building the machine and you might not even trust me. No. Because he's still trying to fuck on storm, bro. Yeah. That's the problem. way too much. Here's how we could have fixed this.

This is the playbook for actually doing this right. A, we make this the entire episode so that we get time for him to do this, first of all. Second of all, he's got to be like, all right, hey, I really want to help you get your powers back. Let's work on this. Great. Let's just say he developed feelings for storm during that time. Let's say that's like a month. Two months.

Let's call it like that. Then he's got a cop to that. Be like, okay, listen, context of this whole thing changed. I'm in love with you. Second of all. You don't have to cop to shit. Okay. No, why do you not have to tell somebody you're in love with them, man? No, you have to, first of all, that's not copying to it.

That's just a mission of love. You guys are toxic. Wow. This is not a toxic. No, no, no, no. Wait, wait. You are a scientist. First of all, first of all, you guys are toxic.

The moment that you start to feel like you love somebody, don't waste a second telling them. All right? You're like, you don't waste a second. You, I ain't lived in that. That's not the point. No, that's not the point. I'm saying that he had to say that. He has to say that.

I think the reason he couldn't tell her he loved her at the beginning because he feels responsible for what happened to her. Right. And so he would withhold that information. Because he should have been like when he picked her up the first, I'd be like, Hey, yo, Storm, you probably don't know who I am. I'm a mutant.

I kind of fucked up. I helped build this machine. I'm going to help you get your powers. Don't wait. No, bullshit. You know what? Because you're actually, you're actually now, you're not, you're standing in her way.

Because I'll tell you why. if you tell her that straight off the jump, she's going to be so distrustful for you that she's not going to get into the machines. That's a projection. That's not for you to decide, man. What the fuck happened in the goddamn cartoon? What happened is that he waited to say that?

He would tell that information. What the fucking happened? What happened in the motherfucking cartoon? The minute that he told her that shit went left. It's because he didn't say that shit for that long. If he came to be like, hey, listen, I'm going to fuck this up.

Y'all live in this fantasy world. What are you? The reality is what you, the reality is what you should do is help her get her powers back. And then after she has her powers back, be like, now there's something I have to tell you. No, no.

Is it about the machine or say that you love her? Because no, no, it's about, it's, no, you can tell you love her. But like, you can just about getting her powers back. After she's got her powers back, after she's the wind of the willows again. Right.

And she's fucking, great story. Did you see how fucking upset she got when she couldn't talk, she couldn't talk to the wind? That was crazy. That was moving towards me. But like the moment, the moment that she has it back,

then you can be like, look, I'm glad you got your powers back. It's straight. Let me tell you a way I learned how to do this. I learned how to do this because I'm the motherfucker and this is me getting back and all of this stuff, boom. Because now you just,

objecting a lot of shit, mission accomplishment. You just ejecting a lot of distrust in there. It's so toxic. It's somebody that people got to work together to get a power. I don't. This is under the assumption,

this is under the assumption that if you come to somebody with the truth first, regardless of how bad it is, that they'll automatically distrust you. And that's not, and that's not on that means. She does, though.

She's like, out of your fucking mind. Also, if you tell somebody, Forge didn't, if you tell somebody, if you tell somebody something bad enough, they will certainly distrust you

and they should. Also, it's so creepy it's so creepy that after you fail to get Storm's powers back, you're just like, oh, by the way, I also love you. I'm like, dog, that's not mission accomplishment? Stay on fucking task.

I do think there was a lot going on in that moment, right? Imagine finding out the guy that's been trying to help you get your powers the whole time. It's actually the guy who helped you lose your powers in the first place. Which is the wrong time to say to see that you love somebody.

And then follows out what you love. I love you. That's kind of nuts, brother. It's not the time for all that. Do not do that. You got to, like, you got to pick a separate day or something. All I'm saying is this. He's trying to help him.

They've sharing their scars. They're sharing their wounds. They're doing the whole nine. Get her powers back. The only way that you can really atone for what it is that you're doing is to get the powers back. Get the powers back. You muddy in the waters now.

Yes. Now it's muddy. Now it's like, oh, my God. What's happening now? Nah, get the powers back. And then be like, look. And look, if you have to leave for a little while and let her think about it, because that's the type of shit

you pull. You'd be like, look, this is what happened. Now I got to go. Now I'm going. Wow. So you're not even going to give you a storm the chance to dip. You're going to leave before that. It was crazy, man. No, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's insane.

You get your, I've been in a relationship for a long time, guys. Do you want to keep being in one? There, come on. It's been years. It's been years. I'm just saying, And was it built on trust? It's built on trust. You know what?

You know what? It is built. Well, hold on, hold on. It's built on trust for sure. But it's also built on knowing people. Right. And about sometimes not doing stuff that people get in the way of what it is they want. Storm wants her powers back.

Mm-hmm. Right? Yes. Storm wants her powers back. He can help her get her powers back. Get the powers back first. This. Okay.

I'm not saying, don't tell her. yet. No, she doesn't. Get the powers back first. I want Kalika's thoughts on this episode. Get the powers back first. And after you get the powers back, now, you just, whatever. Here's the thing. I think what's tripping us all up is that we can all agree that Forge fucked up here. We can all agree that Forge fucked up this moment. I think the love thing is tainting the waters a lot.

It's something that ran a foul even worse than whatever he could possibly do to either A, help with building the machine. because her him trying to get her powers back is that now that completely confused it's like well wait are you doing this because you love me because you want to fuck on me what like what is that what is that supposed to mean now you also have been like regardless of me yeah like you got this mistake how are you talking

like well fuck on me Steve how are you talking what is this talk from you like you talk oh you want to fuck on me you're trying to fuck on me Steve are you from the 60 Crips What is happening right now? Like, what are you, like, what are you, how is this talk? Am I, you guys don't understand. You guys aren't hearing this talk.

Hey, Steve's in a new relationship right now. You know, you pick up stuff for people. You know, you're trying to fuck on me. You're trying to fuck on me. You're trying to fuck on me. Wait, guys, guys, guys, this is this activist we're talking about. Fun fact. That's how you talk.

What we're talking about is everything but the first half of this episode. For a good reason. Hey, Jubilee came back and she was old. I like the first part. I like Mojo. Look, I'm gonna tell you something. I'm always like Mojo. I like the first part.

This episode wasn't as good as the other episodes that we got, but it was a good episode. X-Men 97 is a great fucking show. I liked, I liked, if the whole episode was Storm and Forge, it would have been an amazing episode. Probably. I do think I liked the first part of the episode. I thought long shot was coming out.

Tough. And I got very excited. Tough. And he didn't. But at the same time, I like seeing Mojo. I like the whole video game thing. was fun to me.

It was neat. It was funny. It was something we talked about, I think, when the show first came out. The X-Men Ops list is the villains,

the rogues is a, it's not as deep as you'd like. What? I mean, it's not like great stuff, but it's fun. What? But you can't do,

like, let's be, like, Mr. Sinister. Like, we went down the list. If you want to, go down the list. Give me,

give me the top, give me the X-Men's rogue list, Jambito. No. Mr. Sinister. Magneto, Mr. Sinister. Apocalypse. Sabretooth.

But even that's like mainly The whole brotherhood of the The top tier and then Juggernauts. It's a big disparity. Like, okay, so when you name the juggernaut name, so Mr. Sinister. Emma Franz. I mean, Hellfire Club.

The Hellfire Club. You got the Acolytes. You got the Brune. You got the Brune. You got the Shiar. You got like, you got a lot of Exodus. Lady Def Strike. Mastermind, Omega Red. That's a good role. Omega Space.

Yeah. We got the Sentinels. We got Omega Sentinel. We got the normal Sentinel. We got the normal Sentinel. We got fucking MasterMov. We got Cassandra Nova. Like, come on, y'all.

I'm not saying the roster is not deep. I'm saying if you're doing like a one-off joint. That's what you said. It's like, all right, cool. We got to pull. Like, all the other folks, like, you kind of have to build up for them. Like, they seem important. Like, a one-off, like, mojo.

kind of like, all right. Well, here's the thing. I think it's the, it's the case of the show wanting to have it's cake and eat it too, because it's, again, it's the morph trick of being like, all right, let's have a fun construct for us to like play the hits in a great nostalgic way to be like, all right, here's like, oh, when we were on Dronosha and Asteroid M and all these other great storylines from the original show that like we can have a wink and a nod, but it doesn't really count because it's in a video game and we're just like talking about, like, it's a, again, it's that fun Saturday morning conceit where like, again,

nothing really matters and we're just having a fun time and I can't be mad about it. But then again, when you pair it with like some real hard hitting drama with Storm and Forge, I'm like, okay, I get that you can do both. I really want Storm and Forge. I want the drama.

It's shit or get off the pot from me. Because it was like even during like the Storm and like Ford shit. Like we see a picture of that classic X Factor run. Right. With like, with what you'll call it, Polaris and Strong Guy and War Spain and Havoc.

The fact that's strong guy, man, strong guy. I'm like, that shit's more interesting than what we're getting on screen. Same thing with the mojo shit. I'm like, I was just like the Easter eggs that we're getting are almost more interesting than the plot. Well, but like both of those

those halves deal with those Easter eggs and that nostalgia in a different way because you just get like, oh, you just get a picture on a cork board. And then that was like, oh yeah, remember that time. That was great. And then in this first half, you're like,

don't you remember when we were on Asteroid Am. fighting Magneto and like, here's Magneto, here to fight us in a simulation. Like, it's either that on the nose or looking back to a thing that you may or may not be that connected to. The member berries. Right. And again,

that's more or less the entire conceit of the show, and that's what it's supposed to be doing right now. I think that it's very well balanced in the latter half rather than the first. Yeah. I mean, I'll say, you know, y'all not messing a mojo, but then McHale Ratspoon show up and start hop into dimensions, it's a problem.

You know? I thought it was cool Not every single episode of the show It's a television show Not every single episode of the show Has to They've given me some grandiose things already

And I think that was kind of by design, right? You're getting people back Initiated with this This group of X-Men These characters, these stories And I think they thought That they had to take some pretty big swings In the first three episodes

And they did, they did It was a lot For the first three episodes And I think now it's kind of a transitional segue episode. I had a lot of fun watching it. I like Mojo. I like video games.

I like older Jubilee, Sunspot, romance, all of that. If you guys are saying that a whole Storm Forge episode would have been better, there's absolutely zero way to fucking deny that. I agree. All I'm saying is if you're trying to help somebody do something and you know that you can say something that's going to stop them from accepting the help, you probably want to let them accept the help.

let them accept the help before you tell them. Okay? Uh-huh. If your goal is to help them, if your goal is to help them. All right, man. And you know that you could say something to them to stop. Oh, I've already done it. Like, if you, if you know that you, they're telling somebody something will stop them from accepting the help that they know that they need.

Don't tell them until after. After they've done it. The difference is telling you. This man is in love with her. Like order of operations. All right, that's enough out of X-Men. I want to know who Steve's been hanging around. Steve is like, I ain't got nothing.

I'm trying to fuck on something. Steve, you're changing. Can you be a-haired? Can you sound being an a hater? It's Steve's fucking birthday, bro. Why am I being a hater? I'm not being a hater at all. I'm asking what's happening.

By the way, that's okay as well. If Jomi walks in here tomorrow and Jomi's all fucking different or I start to see it happening incrementally, it's okay to ask, yo Jami, what's going on? What's you are? You know, if Chuck, if you want, walking here tomorrow and you like all

fucking positive, I'm gonna be like, yo man, what's up? I am so positive. LA Chuck is way more positive than New York, Chuck. I don't believe you. Chuck, your soul is too damaged for you to actually enjoy things and that's why we love you, baby. All right? That's not what the shoddies out here saying. They like you too positive out here.

Hey, why do you keep saying shoddies? Why do you call them shoddies? Stop, bro. We're not getting into this fucking thing. I said that in fucking confidence. Joe me, we're not gaining any of this shit. All right? No, man. We're not. We're not, bro. What happened?

What happened? No. You're going to keep it on the pod. End the show. End the show. Okay, but look, but look, that's how you see what you just did? You withheld information. All right.

Sometimes you got to do that. You see what you just did? Hold on a while, whoa, wait. See what you just did? You withheld information. From the audience, not from my boys. We don't talk about it after. You know, it was funny.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You just, you spark something in my brain. You guys are such bullshit liar. And I'll say this is the last thing that I'll say. Deep Shadow Protocol was invented for a bunch of people who don't want to share certain things with the audience, but will share it in the room, stuff that can make the audience laugh,

stuff that they're making the audience feel good, stuff, you guys are the ones to do this. I am, what did, what do, I say, leave it all in, never cut me out. You got, and then, then you're going to get on Forge, because Forge, it makes no sense. So you're saying Ford should have deep shadow protocols, everything that he did for the government.

I'm saying you guys, the inventors of Deep Shadow Protocol should understand that Ford's needed to deep shadow protocol. I don't work for the government. Brough, he didn't even do it directly. He was the niggil who started. it before the niggal who started it. It's not even really him that did it. He's just telling you,

you guys need to think about, be consistent is all I'm saying. Steve, check how you're talking. You're coming off like, you're like, next thing you know, Steve's going to be in here like, I was chilling with my niggas last hour. All right. Right. Right. The fucking end of this shit.

That's it. Think about whatever, think about everything that was said during these conversations, guys. All right. That's a wrap. This Friday, the Midnight Boys are back. with their instant reactions to Monkey Man. We'll see what Steve says and how he says it. Interesting.

Also, on Friday, the House of Arr gives you their top 10 Captain American Winter Soldier moments to celebrate its 10-year anniversary. Credits. Our producer is Steve, the architect almond. Happy birthday, Steve. At least not be that. Happy birthday.

Steve Ibonics almond. Jomi, the Australian, The Jomey, the explainer of Ditteron is on social hashtag Jomey and the giant lady. Oh my. You gotta listen to the monster bracket. God. The Kaiju racket. I haven't heard it yet. Oh, Jesus.

Jome and a giant lady. Okay, I love how you're using this podcast to promote shit. Now, shit people have to go listen. Go listen to it. But Jomey needs Midnight Boy specific knickknack. Is that a new fucking rule? Are we adding that to the byline? It is.

to the rules. There's a new rule. An additional production from our Juno Ram Gapal. Chuck, take us out. Orange is fucking up. Watching Invincible Season 3, I probably can't.

And when you are around your boys, don't bring up that one who's shat in his pants. Boo! Dog, man, you're so fucked on.