The Ringer-Verse - Is the Old Daredevil Back? Daredevil: Born Again Episode 8 Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

The Boys are back to discuss the newest episode of ‘Daredevil: Born Again,’ which might be the best episode to date! They examine what’s going on in Matt’s head and how the reintroduction of Bullseye might be the shot in the arm that the show needed. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Welcome Into the Rearverse This is course the Ringer's

Nextest podcast fee For all things fandom we are Steve Darket Honored the building And Tigraffin Jomey Twinter at dinner on Old Man Van

Oh Hairline boss Cove baby Chuck The 24-carried closing Together we are known as The Midnight Boys Upew Midnight Collective back there

Alea Arjuna Jonathan How you guys doing? Good that's good great answer fantastic right there it's great

happy Wednesday to you guys uh follow on socials Instagram and TikTok for now Jomey

for now they keep extending it's every 90 days didn't you give it another 90 days don't it down the yeah don't it down the can

you know at some point they'll either ban it or not so Jomey have you been following Trump's tariff tirade to make sure that it doesn't have

an adverse effect on TikTok uh well I mean I don't know if the tariffs would have a negative of advance on TikTok. I think...

Well, China might not sell. Right, but I don't think... So China might not sell... The price of the tariffs affects TikTok, essentially. Right. But the downstream effect... Higher learning. Downstream...

Yeah. Yeah. I mean... You take macroecon, Jomey? I sure... Charles, are you high? What? That was a high statement.

You said that's how to have macroecon. You didn't say... You didn't take macroecon. I do think, yeah, I mean, if the economy does crater, then, yeah, would affect the price of TikTok, but you know it's at this point. It's the price of the everything going up.

Well, everything. Well, prices of everything going up and everybody else's wallet going down. Yeah. Everybody going down. We're going to cheer you guys up but talking about Daredevil. On YouTube, like, comment, subscribe,

share you can watch every Midnight Boys and House of Our episode on YouTube. com backslash at Ringiverse and also on Spotify. Program, everybody! This Friday, House of R will be. be giving you their daredevil deep dive. This is a deep diveable episode of Daredevil, I would say.

Oh, yeah. I think every episode of Daredevil, is deep diveable. The Sunday, the Midnight Boys will be given their instant reactions to the last of us after the episode ends. And Monday, the House of Our will be giving you their deep dive into the last of us premiere. Oh, my God.

We are to that point. Is this a new content apocalypse? Yes. When does it end? After Fantastic Four? Yeah. Yeah. It'll be in there.

That depends on when Game of Thrones comes out, when Dunkin' Egg. Wait a minute. Did I, have you guys heard my Fantastic Four song? Oh, wait. No, I might have called Wind of this. There was a rap or there is a... Yeah. That Joanna and some other people might have heard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so look, this is what I'm going to do. I'm not going to debut it right now. Okay. But I am going to get the recording from Joanna, who I'm sure kept it. Right. I'm going to send it around. And this, we got a, I think we should all have verses on it.

Okay. What type of ghetto mixtape shit is this? All right, I'm not premiering it right now, but you know, I got the voice. I'm just standing around and put some verses on it. You can't rush art. But let me tell you what this is. Y'all remember how like, well, y'all probably don't remember. But in the old days, there would be a movie that would come out.

And then why the credits roll, there would be like a theme song. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like men in black. Wow, wow. Jay Z on Eddie Mer. On, uh, what's what's what you call?

any professor soundtrack. Right. But like, it is, like, the turtles are going off and it's Go to T-U-N-A-N-A-Power. Teenage Mutant-Nanger on the half shell. Heroes four. In this DNA, you can ask for more. Like, you know what I mean?

And so that's the kind of fantastic four song that I did. Ah. And I want to, because my shit is hidden. This one is hidden. A lot of other than what type of vibe is it. Oh, man. Fantastic four. Fantastic four.

Oh, so this is like a fan. This is like an old. This is like an old hip-hop beat. It's like a old, that's the joint. And we should have, we should, everybody should get our own 16. Everybody get their own 16. Okay. It's four of us.

It's four of them. So we should each have a verse about a character. A character. Wow. Wait, then we would have to split. Who's who in the Fantastic Four? Well, I have no clue about that. Right.

All I know is that Jomi is the thing. So here's the thing. Yeah. You're invisible woman. You're invisible woman. What do I? You're probably Johnny. No.

You don't want to be Johnny? Everybody want to be Johnny. No, I'd probably be the Johnny. No, I'd probably be the coolest woman. Johnny would probably be the coolest woman. Nothing? Nothing wrong with Sue. Okay, good.

She's the most powerful one. Is she? That's what they say in the comics. But she don't never be doing nothing to me. What? I don't like it when we make women invisible in comics and in real life. What? Whoa, Charles, you never miss out on the opportunity.

We'll on today's show. Shout out to boast of it. We give you our instant reactions to the latest episode of Daredevil Born Again. Spoiler warning for Daredevil to MCU. Everything related to the past show and anything that might have happened in a Daredevil comic book.

We're getting ready to talk about Daredevil Born Again. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. To begin our reactions, we once again bring you the Midnight Manifest.

Chuck is going to put you in the note right now. Take it away. All right. This is your Midnight Manifest for Daredevil Born Again, the Penn Ultimate episode directed by Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead, written by Jess Wigateau and Dario Scardap. All right. Match is crashing out on a variety for a variety of reasons. Heather thinks Daredevil is crazy. Buck shows up at Matt's door, inviting the therapist to a mayor-fist fundraising ball.

Bullseye wants a meeting with a lawyer after being placed in Gen Pop. But Matt is tired of defending con men and his day job. Kingpin has a crash out of his own when he makes Vanessa decide if she's a ride or die by revealing that he's imprisoned her handsy lover, Adam. Vanessa decides to kill the homie to prove her allegiance. Matt has an epiphany about who killed Foggy at Josie's bar and interrogates a bull's eye about who hired him. Point Dexter says the only way he'll help is if Matt represents him in court before he dies in Jenpop.

Matt does the dare double scream, bashes bull's face in, and goes to Kingpin's mayoral fundraiser at the ball. That confronts Vanessa because he knows she's now the king. killer and an escaped bull's eye tries to shoot fist, but Matt jumps in front of the bullet at the last minute, and that has been your midnight manifest for Daredevil, born again. And thoughts on the penultimate episode. We get the return of Morehead and Benson. So I'll talk about the scene between Daredevil, because let's talk about Heather.

You know, Heather. Heather the therapist. Heather's the therapist. Dr. Heather. So at the beginning of this show, Dr. Heather and Daredevil are talking. And the scene worked for reasons that I'm unclear about. I don't know why the scene worked so well to me. I maybe feel like are we out of the era of the older version of the show?

Yeah, I think this, I think actually this is the first episode. that's all new footage. Like there's no old stuff in these last two episodes. We got... I think these last two episodes. This feels definitely like this is a new vibe

that is a bit more realized. So as I'm watching him talk to her, she obviously has an issue with masks. You know, probably has all kinds of therapeutic stuff in her brain about what it means to show a mask to people and also live another life. He's clearly,

Daredevil, as we know. And the tension there, for me, was the most authentic tension that we've had in the show thus far. The tension between them where he says, Daredevil saved you, and she goes, no, I saved myself. What Daredevil and Muse were doing was more about them. She's right. She's actually right. He's smart enough to know that she's right. But it makes him uncomfortable. comfortable to have to confront that. And watching him kind of curl up a little bit, like, as a hero, I'm like, oh, okay.

I'm like, this is what the show is. Why is he talking to Heather like that, though? A little bit. There's a couple of moves around. He's like, yo. But it also makes sense for his character because he's clearly fine with being Daredevil again. And it's a toxic relationship with him being Daredevil again.

Because anything that gets him in the way of him having that mentality or challenges that mentality. He's to be like, no, this is the right thing. Clearly, this is the right thing. I know that, like, it's the whole thing is, you know, is Derrtle's supposed to be secret. Nobody's supposed to know, right?

Obviously, you wouldn't suspect a blind lawyer. But he was like, nah, man, Derrtle was doing the great thing. It's like, hey, bro, you kind of, is that your man? Like, why are y'all? Why are you defending him like this? And shit, his face is off. Is having a pay attention at all? Like, also at one point, when Buck is at the door,

I don't think he had his cane. Like, they made the joke at Joe's the door. He just walked to the door. I'm like, hey. You get a little slippery with the Stevie Wonder Jesus Christ You can see a little bit

You can see a little bit Honestly, Heather Heather could do that You ain't the white man not She could not yelling at him But like he's not yelling at me But like Yeah come on

Daredevil that be But like The show to me In this episode Introduced Some real characterization That I thought I've been missing What I

You know I will say that it's still Finding itself visually I thought visually it was a little yeah still finding itself visually but I thought this was the first show where I was like Heather really works as a character

it seemed like she was there for a purpose the Wilson Fiske and Vanessa thing finally came to a head in a way in a way that like that was very compelling and then like the task force guys like finally feel dangerous they look They looked like a couple of slap dicks before.

But they... You're going to have a hard time wiping your ass. Yeah. That was crazy. That was crazy. I thought he was going to put his ass in the friar. I'm like, are you about to fry his whole butt? That commissioner, bro, he ain't got no legs to stand on.

What did you think about Matt in this episode? I thought Matt in this episode, I think he was doing a little bit too much in between, like, his emotions are at all-time high between point dexter, between his job, between Heather, everything that's going on in his life was so much so that he sold with Poindexter, hitting him on the head, lying to him to escape. That's why at the end, he kind of has to take that shot for Fis

because it's his fault that he's out there because he was too emotional in that room and allowed him to escape. I think next week is going to be... Wait, it's whose fault that he escaped? It's false. He smashed his head on the desk when he was interrogating him

to loosen the tooth, which allowed him to then escape. Yeah. I mean, again, like, I'm watching the show. I'm like, there's no way Matt did that on purpose because that's, that's like against everything that Matt believes in. But at the same time, it's like just you're losing your sense of mind here. You're losing your cool. Right. Now Bull's eyes out. He's taking a shot at somebody. Me personally, if I know he's shooting at Fisk, I'm letting that slide. Like, oops, I'm a little too slow. Oh, no. Damn, they shot Fist. That's crazy. But Matt's sense of purpose and sense of self can't allow that. And so now you in the ICU. because you got too emotional at the job one time. It's just not all there for him. So I do kind of feel bad, but same time, it's of his own making. It's really interesting to know that the show just recently became aware of how, like, rudderless Matt is without Foggy and Karen.

Because kind of throughout the season, he's been acting not like himself, but the show hasn't really leaned into the fact that he is clearly without the things that make him whole. and now this episode is actually kind of examining that fully. It really makes sense now when he has the likes of Kirsten and Cherry with him that they do not understand him to the level that they should

because what really pissed me off was when they were in that meeting and Kirsten was giving him the download of this asshole client that they were working with and it's like, oh, by the way, contact that I had in jail said that Poindexter wants to talk to you. Karen and Foggy would have

never ever told Matt that if they were that upset about him. Like, hey, the guy that ruined your life and, like, caused you all this trouble, wants to chat for some reason, maybe don't do that. Why wouldn't you tell him? Why would you tell him? The guy that ruined your life and you've been spiraling out,

like, I've only been your friend for a year, but I could probably pay attention to the fact that you don't want to talk to the guy that killed your best friend. I mean, maybe, but I mean, it's... Would you tell that to somebody? I mean, he's going to find out. Yeah, like, I don't... From who?

anybody. I just, you know, Cherry might have told him. It's just like, they moved him to Jen Pop, right? And then he wants to talk because he knows getting moved to Gen Pop means he's going to die. Sure. Point Dexter. Right? So he's like, hey, yo. I don't know. He seems to be... Can I ask really quick, though?

You know, my Bullseye, not my Bullseye. When he's like, Bullseye was scared to Jen Pop, I'm just like... I think you can handle yourself in Jen and Bullseye. I think... I think Bullseye can handle himself. You know what they made me think about? It made me think about the difference between Bullseye and Roelzee and Roel. Roershack. Like Roershack. I mean,

I love that. Roar Shack was, no, Roarshack said it. See, y'all don't be reading the shit. Your hands, my perspective.

They're like, Roorshack was in line. He was in prison, and he saw the guys coming from. And he smashed the glass, hit the guy with the, um, the tray,

and then he took the, the hot oil. Yeah. He threw it in the guy's face. And then Roershack looked at everybody in the prison. And he went, yo, I think y'all got it messed up. Yeah, I think of somebody else. I'm not locked in here with you.

You're locked in here with me. Coldest shit ever. But here's the thing, Roershack don't got hands. Like, he could fight and shit like that, but Bullseye's on another. And Rooschack will beat the shit out of Bulls'an. What? Are you nuts? Bullseye would kill.

Oh, no, bro. What? Hold, hold, hold, hold on. Bullseyes got that. Are we throwing shit? Yes. Okay, because if we throw in shit, then maybe. But if we're talking about just straight up dogs?

No, no, no, no, no, no. But Roorshack will beat the shit on the Bullseye's. I think Roeck is just feral crazy. No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, if we're throwing paper clips at them and stuff like that, then Roorshack will fuck up. Because Roorshack, he'll throw that fucking blade of grass, bullsaw, throw that blade of grass, cut your artery.

But if it's just hands, if it's just hands, if it's just hands, bullseye still be. expert martial artists and hand-to-hand combat. No, bro. Literally, Bullseye is almost as good at martial arts as Daredevil and Elect. Y'all, y'all don't know to Washman Law. I think Roershack is fucking over Bullseye. I don't think.

I mean, they both have expert head-to-hand combatant enlisted use of improvised weapons. It'd be a dog fight. Like, legitimately. And also, here's the thing. Rorschach don't be, the problem is he'll be eating like fucking junk food and shit, smelling like shit. You don't take care of yourself. Yeah, yeah.

That's a bonus. If you smell, like, you smell bad, bro. I don't know if I want to fight you. Yeah. Wait, so. A little funky. So then my question is like, were you confused? Because I was confused when like, well, Point Dexter was just like, I can't be in Jen Pop.

I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm like, dog. How? Well, they got them changed. They got them all locked up. They have them locked up and they won't let them get stuff in his hands. So I don't think, I think that he looks at the sheer numbers and goes.

And by the way, this is a more grounded. Sort of, I think he listens to sheer numbers and goes, I'm not going to be able to kind of fuck over all of these guys who really want to kill me. I ask my question is this. The return of Bullseye in this, this episode to me had a couple of things that, you know, I felt like it worked really well. But one of them, to me, was the return of Bullseye.

The scene where Bullseye is talking, what Poindexter is talking to Matt, is legitimately a great sense. seen. Yes. Matt is hanging on by a thread. I do not know why he went down there. I wouldn't have gone.

Yeah. But he goes. He can't help but go. And it's like Bullseye is the last little bit of motivation he needs to fully fall back into Daredevil. Wait, but didn't he go? Doesn't he go there because he's now sure that Bullseye was hired by someone who was not fixed? He is the thing.

I feel like he could have been thinking about that the entire time that Foggy died. He wants to know. He wants that answer because he's probably been thinking about it ever since that night. Because I think he's like, when he goes to Josie, he's like, oh, I'm closer to the mystery of this. I guess my problem with Bullseye is like, to your point, I thought it was electric when he showed up. I really like the interrogation scene between him and Matt. I guess it was just I was a little bum because I'm like, damn. this move fast.

By the time he like escapes prison, dresses up and shoots Kingpin, I was like, I kind of would have wished that Point Dexter would have been in more of the season, where it would have been more of like a slow build and we could even see his prison life. We could see him like in solitary.

We can see Matt kind of just being like, there's this thing looming over me. It almost felt like... I think that would have been too much. I don't know if it would have been too much. I don't know if I'm that invested in that character to have, I mean... I'm more invested in him than I was in...

Use. Not hard. And let me tell you. Well, then if that's the case, then why not just free him? And then if you're invested in him, he's out and he's on the... He's... I want to love him. We actually know how bad Gen Pop is for him.

And we believe that he actually is in danger or fears for his life in some way. Like, people or former clients or whatever that he fucked over are now in jail and they have it out. So you want to see him get beat up for an episode? Or just like kind of understand like what his like state of mind is other than just being like I'm lying and wait like a Cobra ready to strike something because I still have something to do and this like I fear for my life in Jen Pop kind of just seems like a ploy to get Matt to bait him out of jail Whether or not that's actually the case we don't know because we haven't had the time. I mean I even want to know like how is his body holding up? Damn near like what?

snapped his spine. He's beat the fuck up. Like a year ago, I'm like, that also could have been an explanation of why he doesn't want to be in Gen Pop. He's like, hey, yo, I don't got no throwing things. My body is fucking ripped to shit.

I need to get out of here. And I felt like there just needed to be a little bit more explanation of like, why is he so afraid? Why is he calling Matt? And it just kind of seemed like they were like, we need to get this. I think, I mean, we find out later that it was Fisk or Vanessa Fisk

that hired him to kill Foggy because Foggy was going to win a case that would have sold their empire to some extent, right? And so she makes a call to send him to Jam Pop so you can die, you know, tie up blue cents. You know what I mean? Like get that guy out the way.

And he's not really going for that, right? Ultimately, it's like, I don't want to die over some nonsense. Calls Matt. Hey, I might know who killed your boy, but you got to, you know, get me free. and it's kind of this little tug of word. So I understand what you're saying

in terms of why you want to see more point decks or why he doesn't want to be in Jem Pop. But ultimately, it just comes down to, I don't want to die. I think that's a good enough reason for anybody. Or I don't want to have to fight 50 motherfuckers. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know my bullseye. Hashtag not your bullseye. Hashtag not my bullsaw. He got no hands. He took me literally. Again, just give me the chobot doesn't need his hands, bro. He needs a fingernail. I mean, he needs a tooth.

He needs a tooth. he's dating got that. I don't know if that would be like incapacity. You just spat a tooth in somebody's eye. I don't know if that's going to like explode my eyeball. See now, see now y'all keep doing this thing. Y'all want him to be super powerful and do the thing. When he does it, it's like it's not real.

Man, the bull's eye, bull's eye was flicking peanuts. Yeah. And people and making, come on, it's bullseye. Come on, man. It's bullseye. Which, by the way, at the end of it, I always, for me, I always get a little bummed out when I see bull's eye with a gun. Yeah.

Yeah. I want to do some slick shit. Yeah, it's... You cut that dude's head off with the real sport thing. Yeah, no, but I'm talking about the end when he shot, when he shoots fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want to see Bullseye. Playing cards. Like, I want to see him, like, walking through, I want to see him walking through the crowd and then him break a plate. Yeah. And then he's got, like, half of a shard of a plate. Um, but back to the actual, uh, structure of the episode.

You got a couple of things happened. You have BB, finally, finally, finally doing something interesting to me. I'm sorry. I mean, here's the thing. I don't know if she's, first of all,

I was just like, damn, but also I was just like, finally, you and she? Yeah. Hey, what? Yeah, she was looking bad. Baby got it.

How old is baby? You got to look it up, though. Yeah, you got to look at all. You got to. That's it. This is preemptive. You got to do your research first. That you have a depower police commissioner

who, is against Fisk while still having this proximity to him as the police commissioner, who might actually have some connection to Bibi in terms of giving her information about what the task force is up to for her to take down Fisk and the fact that she knows that Fisk was responsible for the murder of her uncle. We kind of have a little bit more of an understanding about who Bibi is and what she's doing. Her character finally got something other than those Bibi on the street interviews. This was literally the first episode where I was like, not only is Bibi interesting, but this is kind of what I wanted to know the entire season.

Yeah, for sure. Which is like, because I think we, I was not surprised when she's like, I know that King King King was responsible for my uncle's murder. And I think she wasn't served being that ignorant. I get they were trying to kind of maybe like hide their hand in terms of like she's trying to get really close to what's his face. Blake. To Blake.

So I understood all. that, but I was like, oh, once she's not playing dumb anymore, like, I kind of lit up where I was like, oh, this is like a new avenue for the show. Yeah, it also creates a tension between her and Blake because Blake is more invested into Fisk than almost anyone. Outside of Vanessa, yeah. Outside of Vanessa, maybe more so than Vanessa. Really?

Yeah, maybe more so than Vanessa. She's 26, by the way. She's 26. But you're absolutely correct in the sense of this is the first episode where we're like, oh, she's got something to do. She's not just playing around. Yeah. She actually has a direction.

She's not just playing around, like, doing the interviews and, like, just trying to establish herself. No, she actually has a point to all of this. But there's a tension between her and Blake, as well as I'm going to say more about that, Jomey, to where now he's going this way into Fisk, and she's definitely trying to injure Fisk. But they're still on the same path, right? He's going to be the deputy mayor of communication.

And she is going to be somebody who's like, yo, yeah, man, let me get close to Fisk, all this. but we know our ulterior motives. Yeah. Which to prove that Fisk is ultimately like an actual supervillain who killed her uncle. Blake doesn't know that. And he's, I don't know if he's sweet on her or whatever.

By the way, they were doing shots, but they were taking him champagne and glasses. I don't know what y'all be doing in New York, but that seems to, you know. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you. First of all,

I'm a lot of respect on New York. I don't know why I had to happen, but I don't feel like that's a heavy drinking city. New York? What is the? Are you serious? There's Chicago and there's New York. You know, Steve, every now and again, you say something so mystifying.

What? Then I wonder, you said, I don't feel like New York is a heavy drinking city? Yeah. What are the top five heaviest drinking cities in America? Chicago. Chicago's up there. Is one. Vegas.

Vegas, yes. Yeah. New York is. For sure. Got to be top three. And then Boston, they get drunk before they go out to Lynch. Before they go out to Lynch people. Phoenix is nuts.

Phoenix is nuts. Wherever they got that invitational. But see, Phoenix is, it's not really Phoenix, though. It's Scottsdale. Scottsdale. That's the thing. Is Scottsdale? The adjacency to Scottsdale with Phoenix, I feel, like,

because I've been to Phoenix a couple times and I'm like, this is kind of nuts. You know, Miami. Although the southern places where they be drinking whiskey, like, you know, Kentucky, oh. What about them? They'll be drinking moonshine over there in the Appalachian and shit like that. So, and I say that just in the tapestry of American cities that are drinking cities, I'm just like, okay, yeah, New York gets down.

But, like, you drink a shit tons. Yeah, I don't know what you mean. Jome's point, shit doesn't close to 3 a.m. And then there's after parties at lower. They don't know where you, you see, what do you, they drink. We drink faster because shit closes early. See, it's because, you know what I'm saying?

These people do coke. So it's a little different. They be doing. Wait, so can I ask you guys, one thing that this episode I think brought back is to me when I think of everything that makes Daredevil, whether it's the Catholic guilt, the billy clubs,

the one thing that this season really didn't have is like the crash out. Like every every comic book run that you've ever read in Daredevil, shit just stacks on him, stacks on him, stacks on him until he implodes his life. That's why I love reading Daredevil comics. And you're like, oh, my girlfriend died. Okay, well, I'm going crazy. Entertating wise watching it, I loved it. I was like, yo, this feels a lot more like the Daredevil that I know. This is really interesting. I guess it just was a very like sharp tonal shift because they were like, Like, his lawyer, his partner was like, oh, this happened, this happened, this happened.

I understand. But because the other episodes were kind of so lighthearted and just whatever, I was like, I almost didn't buy just the super pivot to him being kind of crazy. I'm liking Charlie Cox's performance as Matt Murdoch better in this iteration of the show than I did the last time. I think it's a lot more I mean he asked to though I think I think that so

because this show has a lot more Matt Murdoch in it I'm seeing a lot more emotion confusion and complexity out of Matt Murdoch in this show than on the last show

and let me qualify it real quick the last show was wind up and go so deep into the pain into the electric thing into all of the other stuff. I'm seeing him emoting. I'm seeing him be flippant.

I'm seeing him be frustrated. There's just so much more happening in his life to where in this episode in particular, Matt was kind of all over the place to bring the frustration and the crash out back, bring back to what Charles said, in a way that, like, it was entertaining enough to where you really didn't need any daredevil. You're like, God damn, this nigga going through it. He's going through it with Heather. Cherry comes up to him

or Kristen comes up to him and says that that Point Dexter has been moved to Jim Popper or like whatever she tells him or whatever or that she wants to see him and he almost, he's surprised. Like she's like, he wants to see you and she's like, uh, he's like, what? Like it was fun watching all the shit

that he went through in the episode because it deepened the drama. I think, I mean, I think literally what it is, it's a higher usage rate for Charlie Cox. Because before it was him, foggy and Carrie. Like they all had their whole thing going on.

Now, really, it's just him and Fisk and then everybody else surrounding them. And so everything that happens to either Fisk or Charlie Cox. And so when, again,

Cherry, McDuffy, Heather, everything, it's not them interacting, it's them interacting with Matt, with Charlie Cox. And so that's why

you have him in all those different spaces. He's doing a lot more. And he was always good, but to your point, when you get to see more of it, like, affect him directly, it brings out a side that we weren't totally familiar with. Maybe it would have worked, though, more if I would have had some more scenes where we get Cherry talking to someone else about Matt or McDuffie or someone.

Or Terry talking to literally anybody else. To your point, the only time we see any of these side characters is when they're talking to Matt. They don't exist any other than that. And that's kind of what. pisses me off about the fact that, like, I don't think Matt actually has any friends because if this were the thing,

like, the bull's-eye thing wanted to talk to you kind of, like, got to me was, because where it was like, if this were Foggy and Karen, yes, take Foggy dying out of it. If this were Foggy and Karen, would be like having, like, a two-episode long debate as to whether or not they should tell him. Yeah. Because of

the fact that this would drive him crazy. And to your point about this being one of the better portrayals of Matt Mirda, I would be inclined to agree if it wasn't kind of totally all over the place this season. Charlie Cox is an amazing actor and knows exactly what the character of Matt Murdoch needs, when it's axed of him. Because like the bank robbery scene,

that's exactly the type of Matt Murdoch that we would want to see in that bank robbery episode, a bit more of a like, not carefree, but like kind of cheeky and fun. Confident. Confident. Yeah. And now we have like he's strung out and he is not doing well. And he is like kind of like, and yes, there's been hints of that. growing, but it's been like cherry-picked through different things and we can, again, see the

seams from a part. You do ruin, dude. I hate to see it. I hate to say it. But it's the lack of a better term. I don't think in this episode is- Not in this, not in this. And like, I feel like if it was a more like, thematically consistent, like, arc that we

saw that on, that would make a lot more sense. So, I mean, that's, I mean, that's difficult, though, because you're literally making, your Frankenstein in two shows. Sure. Right. So it's one thing to be like, to literally like, it's, I mean, again, when we said we were going to talk about it. But it's hard to narrowly weave, like, characters, emotions, and themes when you took a pass at making the show.

And then now I have to take what you did and try to, like, stitch it together. Like, once again, I think I'm just talking about the acting performance that's on screen. I'm not relitigating the entire production of the show from soup to nuts. I'm just saying that to me, there's no Daredevil in this episode. And I didn't notice it. Matt Murdoch, Born again. Like, kind of, I didn't notice it. That's very important because it seemed that there was, that the show at some point was floundering to a degree or was moving so glacially to a degree to where we were like, Daredevil will fix everything.

And then Daredevil got on screen and he kind of didn't fix everything. Okay. However, in this show, as I'm watching it, I'm trying to think of when Daredevil got on screen. devil would have showed up in this show that would have actually added anything and there's not a point in there. Like there's not a point in there where the character would have popped up to where it would have actually added anything to the show. This, to me, was an episode of television that was good for the story that it told. And it was meaningful for the story that it told. Even like Vanessa and Kingpin, we haven't talked about them yet. I think we should probably talk

about him now. Kind of that coming to a head. She kills Luca, which brings her closer to Kingpin, and it seems like there's a choice made about them to continue together as a unit. And that choice crystallizes with... Get Adam out of there. With Adam getting done. Tough. Adam, man, I got to tell you something, man. Adam is an example for you guys out there. Man, I'm glad you watching Adam's story. You young men, be careful, bro. Because you're somewhere, let's say you're at the bookstore, right?

You know, you're at the bookstore. You're looking over some Jeffrey Ross picture books. You know, you like him? Is it Jeffrey Ross? Alan Ross? What's the guy that draws the shit and is like realistic? Like, Kingdom Come. Alex Ross?

Alex Ross. What? What? What is Jeffrey Ross? Who is Jeffrey Ross? So let's say you're looking at some alley. You had the bookstore. Reading picture books.

You look, you know, meantime, you don't look at the book. Don't take me off this tangent. So you're at the bookstore. You're looking at Alex. You're like, oh, my God, look how he drew Quicksilver. Yeah. It looks like a real dude from the 40s. Yeah.

And you're looking at it and he's like, oh, it's Wonder Woman. They look like the classic age. And also, you look. And you see there's some woman over there. She's looking at a book with architecture and she does like this. And you're like, oh, okay. Oh, cougar. She's a cougar now.

Vanessa, Cougar. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's like, oh. Look over, you like, she looks at you, she waves. You go over there, you start talking to her. Either one of you guys, you start talking to her. She tells, you know, my husband's away. He's not going to be back for a long time.

Now, if you had to be braids. We're separated. Hell yeah. I'm falling into that trap. You're separated. I'm just getting back out here. And then you go. Then you say, you say,

Oh, well, maybe we can hang out one time. And she goes, sure, no problem. She goes, call this gentleman right here. He'll set everything up. They say, you know, it's a helicopter coming to get you. Y'all having a date in Catalina and his dolphins in this whole shape. Y'all, y'all, the three of you would fall into that crazy. Not if she's got a husband.

And the next thing you know, you'd be in a fucking cage with some six-foot-nine bald white guy kicking the shit out of you. Not me. Literally one of my first girlfriends goes, she's like, hey, oh, yeah, you know my ex. He's, he's a blood. And I was like, nah. And I was like, I looked at you. Goodbye.

But that's not what Vanessa going to do. You're going to ask about her husband. So you guys are going to be there. It's going to be post-quodal. She's, you know how to, she's going to pull the covers up. They do this in the movies, but they don't do it in real life. In the Robcom movies? She's just pull it up and you're going to be like,

probably eating like some caviar or something like that. You're living the life. You got champagne. You're talking to Buck or somebody like that. Hey! Hey! Go to blood soles, nigga. I'm living.

And he's like, man, what's up with your husband? Like, where is he at right now? What's your husband up to? And she goes, haven't seen him in a while. He's out of here. He's a very powerful man. He's doing a show called Echo. Yeah, he's out of here.

And then that would be. your cue to get the fuck out of here, but that's not going to happen. Because she got VIP tickets to Coachella and you want to go. I think it was probably the problem when she started talking about his hands in therapy. That might have been the problem. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You think

my body can be bought for some fucking Coachella tickets? Oh, yeah. Yes, for sure. What? Yes, it can. Yeah. Chuck, you're the main one that this is what happened to. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like, you're the main one. You're for rolling loud. Hell no. She's not even going to, Joe me and I even going to. I'm not even going to fuck around with her because Jomey going to be like she's too old.

Jomi, if you're not six months older. If you're six months older, if you're six months older than Joe. You want something I can't have. No, but isn't it? She ain't got enough tattoos for Steve. And so, and so. And so Chuck, like, Chuck, like, Chuck, you're going to be the one coming back here, like, looking in with the do-rag and all that stuff.

Like, hey, man, somebody's looking for me, bro. Can we start doing the podcast at Oceanside? All I can say, man, for personal experience. when you see the red flag you gotta run. You got to run. You got to run. You run into the bill.

But here's the thing, why didn't Adam, literally, Vanessa? Google Vanessa. You know what I'm saying? Here's the thing. This is like,

Google's got her. Like dating like Melania. You just be like, no, I know where the money came from. So do you think that they are back together then? Do you think that they are formed

like Voltron just as good and solid because, let's face it, the therapy angle didn't really work. It did not. And that's... Because I'm watching the scene with her killing Adam and them,

to your point, they're coming together. Once she kills Adam... They're back together. That was a vow renewal. Basically, you took Luke... You took Luca down for me, appreciate you. Now, here's what I got going on.

I didn't mean to hide this from you. We're being open now. We're together. She's like, bet. boom, now it's not a pot for anybody. We're locked in. We didn't need therapy for that. We didn't need any of that.

I mean, yeah. We didn't need any of that. And I'm thinking like, okay, so maybe this was, the therapy was them trying to get Heather Glenn involved and so that she'll be at the ball or whatever. But when Muse attacks her, they could just be like, oh, hey, we're so sorry if what happened to Muse. Come to the ball, man.

We'll, like, to Matt's point, use you as a prop or whatever it may be. The therapy angle, they did not need to have those episodes with them sitting in the room Did they ever sell the lack of trust between Fisk and Vanessa? Hell no. Not at all. Not nearly as well as the reconciliation that came with killing Adam. Well, the reconciliation to me still worked in this episode. Yes, yes.

But it worked regardless of the fact that the animus between them didn't really work. Wait, so you're not. So immediately when that happened, I was just like, all right, so next episode, she was probably like, damn, you got Adam walked up in a basement. I got Foggy locked up in the basement. We don't fucking say. Like, I live. That would be crazy, bro.

That's the type of shit I'm talking about. Because Matt was just like, just Fis know that you kill Foggy. And I think she was just like, shit, I ain't kill him. I have him in the tuck just in case. So, like, my, how I think what is going to happen is Matt is going to find out that Foggy is still alive,

that Vanessa's probably going to go to jail. Because once again, whenever, like, these couples are just, like, hey, yo, we back together. I know Matt is like, best way to get my lick back, single girl. I don't know if Fogg is alive, but I do think it isn't true. We talk about them coming together.

Fist don't know that his girl had Matt's homeboy killed, right? This is a surprise everybody. Matt was like, it was Wilson Fisk. He did it to keep and he set my man's up. I got to go get him. And he turns out, no, actually. He was down bad with Echo and then he got shot in the face. It was Vanessa pulling the strings the whole time.

Is it foggy? Is it foggy kind of like on a wire where it's like, ain't no violence on something? Like let your like on Sundays. Yeah, you know, like we don't touch foggy. Do you think Kingpin was just like, A, you stepped over a boundary? Well, honestly, to me, I found that interesting.

I find it interesting now that Matt knows that it was actually Vanessa because it seems like that could reset the relationship between Matt and Kingpin to one that we understand a little bit because killing Foggy in that situation is such an escalation of the sort of superhero villain on again, off again romance that they have. It's an escalation.

It's something that Fiss could really do any time, but kind of chooses not to do because that shifts them forward to the if degree. And that, and taking a bullet form. And taking a... So now what we have is something that's not as personal

as what it would have been before. It's your bad guy. I'm good guy. You seek power. I seek protection. Let's go back to it. And the retribution part of it is maybe out of it.

Maybe that changes Kingpin's calculus too. But with Vanessa, I think. With Vanessa and with Matt, though. But I'm thinking about it right now. Because again, he doesn't know that she did that, right? And so maybe this is me, like, looking ahead a little bit much. But does he go, I kind of got this mayor thing going on.

It's real nice. It's real light. Do you protect Vanessa or do you leave her out there to drive? Because she betrayed your trust. You thought it was tight. She killed Luka. You killed out of him. He thought it was cool.

But now she actually snaked you way before that in killing foggy. I think that I think he stays with her. This is going to stay. He's going to be mad. He's going to be loyal. He's like, you fucked up. I'm going to have to clean this up. But yeah.

Am I missing why Fisk would be mad that she killed Foggy? I could understand that it's an escalation and it's something that he wouldn't have done. But what do you guys feel like is the reason that he's going to be upset that she did that? Well, I mean, I don't think she told him the truth A and B. Okay. Now it puts Matt like on a direct B line towards you. It was cool before. Like, again, they had the little kook-t-a-ta in the first episode

where it's like, you don't step up a line. I want to stop over the line. We'll keep it real nice, keep it kosher. That's it. That's gone now. Your wife killed my boy. I got any of my living back. Daredevil killing Vanessa, where it's just like, there's a level that we, like,

hey, if it's between Daredevil and Kingpin, that's on the level. You start marking the people closest to me, it's an all-out war. And if Vanessa knew this entire time, That's why I think even though Vanessa was trying to play cool, I think Matt knew that he had her, like, to rights, because he's like, you didn't tell your husband. And once again, she kept reading like, you left, you left, you left. And I'm like, it was out here.

But do you think that all she needs to do is basically try to find a way to convince him. He was like, I did this to protect the things that we built together. I mean, maybe. Is that all, he's in the back for her that one? She has the ultimate sway with him, right? Yeah. She has the ultimate sway with him, you know, keeping his whip this shit. So she has the ultimate sway with him.

But however, it does, it's probably going to put him kingpin, I mean, into a situation where he really starts to ask himself if she knows how this whole thing goes. Do you know the rules to this? What was the movie where, oh, Austin Powers? Where Austin Powers is explaining to Scott. Yeah. Oh. Or not Austin Powers or Dr. Evil is explained to Scott. And Scott goes, I got a gun.

I'll run up there and kill him right now. And that's by far the funniest part of awesome powers is so fun. And he goes, you just don't get it. Dude, there's stuff that you do as a supervillain. So anyway, let's talk about Swordsman real quick. All right, before we talk about Swordsman, let's go to an ad break, and then we'll talk about the most dangerous vigilance. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech.

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with a K. Clinic Kids is registered 5.101.1c3 nonprofit. Right. We're back. Van. Swordsman. We can't call him swordsman. He just, man. He's just man. He's just man. I've seen no sword. It's been how many episodes, not one sword? So from the last episode, swordsman tried to press Fisk a little bit. You got the feeling in that episode that Fisk was slightly pressed.

Turns out now, he is in fact not pressed. He is going to use Swordsman's secret identity as a crutch to make him do what he wanted to do. I couldn't tell in this scene whether or not Swordsman was actually afraid of Fisk

or whether or not in any way who he was as a vigilante matters at all. I thought I missed something. Did I miss something in who like, no, swordsman, like I know we saw him in Hawkeye, but I'm like, who is? Like, what type of vigilante is?

Like, who is he protected? Well, you didn't see him in that little like 360P video with that stumped doll in a hooded sweatshirt. So, go ahead, John, my bad. No, I think. I think what it was, was, we saw him last week and, you know, it was like, yo, you ain't got the moves like that. You don't really, you're not built like that, my boy.

Chill out. Now the tables are flipped. Now Kingpin's like, we got to backing, and I know about you. You see my men's in the street. They can do whatever they want. Just know, if you don't support me, I'm going to come after you with the full force of the anti-vigilante task force. And they're not really nice. You know how they get down.

Again, is that a threat? Yes. He didn't say yes, but... Yeah. Yeah, but I feel like I don't really know what we're doing with Swordsmen other than, like, quickly establishing that, oh, yeah,

this task force is a threat and you better... What are we doing? You're just showing. The task force stepped up today as... The task force stepped up this episode as legitimately the mayor's goons in a way that I thought

was more than we've seen them done. Sure. But here's the thing. The thing that I... like I keep coming back to the shows like they tell us a bunch of shit they don't show us where I'm like I would like to see the vigilante task force

actually like take down to vigilante they showed them putting the guys that that was them showing us and whether or not it worked for you or not I get your point is by the way we're seeing the same of them putting the guys in the fire yeah but that's them like I get it like that worked in terms of like oh

they're so powerful in the city that they're intimidating a report But like, no, not just the reporter. The police commissioner. No, I understand that. They look at the police commissioner and they say, they see food. They, they look at the police commissioner and they say, I don't give a fuck what you say police commissioner, man. But they, but they tell us, they're like, oh, vigilante crime is down 30%.

I see what you mean. But we don't, I never kind of get a set. I honestly sometimes forget about the vigilante task force until they're like, and the vigilante task force. I'm like, oh, yeah, the punisher dudes. around. You would then have to get vigilantes in the show, and that seems like... Yeah.

So can we also talk about the politics of... Kind of like the whole vigilante theme this season, because I, to your point, thought that the Heather and Daredevil or Matt conversation in the beginning worked in terms of her being like, you're no different than news and all of these things, but...

The whole thing about Daredevil Born Again was getting Matt and co. More aligned with the MCU, what are vigilantes in the MCU? Because, like, Spider-Man Damn Near is backed by the government at one point. He's an Avenger. He's an Avenger. Yeah.

But, like, what separates? It's interesting. I think that's probably the biggest lasting question from the show. I think the show is seeking to establish a hero hierarchy. And we just haven't had enough time with the vigilantes in the show to really have that, right? So you got to think about it in the entire. entire ball of wax here. I know Steve has thoughts about this.

I'll be brief. So the Avengers are gone, right? And so even though Kingpin shouted out Spider-Man, I'm assuming that Spider-Man hasn't been around that much either, maybe a little bit before, but not right now. So it seems as if people have started to take matters into their own hands. What they really haven't done, since we haven't got a chance to spend a lot of time with the case of the week

format that the show was supposed to exist in is really get us close to a lot of these vigilantes to where we understand not only their motivations but how they do what they do. But we've seen some. What vigilantes are on the board in the MCU? Punisher.

Swordsman. Are you talking about just period? Like, yeah, just period. Not the ones at the show list because I'm like, well, who does this world think are vigilantes? Because at one point after Civil War, you could say Captain American, his team, or were they terrorists? You know what? I don't actually know. Yeah, those are like, those were quantifiable

like world threats. Yeah, like, I don't know in this world what separates Cap and, and, uh, Falcon and all of them going off on their own. Because they're not vigilantes. They were, I think what separates them is what you said earlier is, uh, government legitimacy. I think Cap became a vigilante on a, when they went dark, but I think the Avengers were, um,

at least to a degree, an arm of the government or part of the government being that they were aligned with shield at first. And that was kind of the whole that was the whole tension really in Civil War. The tension was whether or not they would become

vigilantes and act outside of government oversight. And I think it's a little bit, it's a compelling question now because the Avengers came back together and they saved the world. Yeah. And so... Yeah. I mean, if I recall correctly, I think, I think the Socovia Corps are scrapped at this point.

They are. They are. But I get that everybody getting together and fighting Kang or somebody like that is cool. But it's okay for you to put on a mask and just go around your four blocks kicking people's asses. But a movie that did it really well is the first Tom Holland Spider-Man because they were essentially like in a world with the Avengers, there's all this technology out there. So you're going to get all of these blue-collar criminals. basically having weapons of mass destruction in their hands. And if I'm Daredevil or Matt,

my argument back to Heather would be like, it's a different world now. Ever since the Chitari came through that portal, like the police aren't, they're not enough. Last thing I'll say about this, that movie was still Iron Man telling him not to do shit. Yeah. Yeah.

That movie was still Iron Man going, hey, don't do this, don't do that. Don't get out of over your skis. like telling him not to do shit. I think now, bringing it back to the show, I think now that question that you ask is a fantastic question. Because what are we supposed to think about them?

I think that Sorosman's a little cheekiness with Kingpin was cool, but I don't even know if this nigga could fight. Right. I mean, I know that he could fight in the comics, but I want to see him do something. He put some hands on in Hawkeye. Hawkeye did, yeah.

But I think the main problem when it came to this episode truly being, like, great for me is the fact that it has, it, the chickens come to roost on stakes and consequences that have only really been talked about and not necessarily enforced for the rest of the season. When you see... Malcolm X. Was that a thing?

Malcolm X said that about JFK, okay? Oh, okay, Steve. Steve X. Steve X. Bro. I'm not on that website, but... Steve X, Steve X. Okay, go ahead, Steve X.

Okay. Well, when it comes to, like, the idea. that like you actually kind of need to show those things in order for us to really grasp them. The big thing that made the MCU like kind of what it was in the earlier days is that interconnectivity. And then when we actively reference an entire city's worth

of heroes, vigilantes, and consequences around that like intimate justice for a city, a city block, a neighborhood, that can't really be told over like a police scanner or a radio station or even the BB report to be talked about for, you know, a couple of seconds in between scenes to really understand how the city's feeling about all of these, this like social upheaval. It's kind of, it is rendered a little less effective, but it kind of speaks to how good this episode executed on all of those

things. And I just kind of wish that we actually had a bit more scaffolding to know that we can really execute on the themes that we wanted to execute. I think it's a limitation of the show that it can't, Obviously, you can't put Spider-Man in this shit. Well, you can't put Spider-Man, but also, like, you know, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones and Ironfist. All the people. That we know exists in this universe exists with this character. It just becomes like, ah.

Yeah, but here's the thing. Even in the Netflix Defenders and all that shit, that motherfuckers was looking at Matt. Like, who's this weird? I know, but trusting, like, you know, like, Jessica Jones would be looking at him. Like, why are you dressing up? I wouldn't rule out. That is true.

I wouldn't rule out... She was always flaming him, bro. She was so great. She was on his head, right? I wouldn't rule out us seeing those characters and them being the focal point of this vigilante thing moving forward. Moving forward, that's what I'm talking about

this season in particular. Yeah. It's hard to be like, cool, it's Daredevil born again. Here's Zooka. She's Jessica Jones. Like, it's too much. Swordsman is just like

proliferousy enough to where, like, yes, we would like to see him actually sort some people up, but at the same time, he's not going to take away from Daredevil and Matt Murdo. But having that, even the idea of having those characters, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and even any of them back,

simply to be in the orbit of the show so that you could know, oh, hey, yeah, this is going on and this is bad. Or even it's somebody that Matt actually knows for maybe a year plus that they've been talked to. But still, like, it's the fact that like those things can like actually ground us

in the things that, this episode in particular wanted to talk about. I get it that that's a longer haul of a thing to do throughout a season, but that kind of would have been a bit of it. One thing that I do think though worked for me, even though I thought that the fundraising ball, a lot of it was goofy. I am very compelled every single time in a superhero story when the, like, the hero significant other is so close to knowing who they are.

Yeah. It works. It works. It's so great. Like, that was so compelling. Like, when you're like, Matt, because even I thought Cherry, that conversation worked when, like, Cherry's kind of having it. Like, a fantastic Cherry episode. Yeah.

A great Cherry episode. Thank you. We popped our Cherry. Like, we know. Like, we did. Because before we're like, finally, yeah, what was it? Great Cherry episode. Last week, two weeks ago, we're just like, I'm sick of this dude.

Bro. He's just like a foggy region, man. They take it all the lines that they would have used for foggy and do it to him. But this week it was like, yeah, man, I get you going through some stuff. I'm here for you. Just, I need you to be smarter. That's the chair we were missing all season. I wish he would talk to literally anybody else.

Yes, about what's going on. Anything. You know what I'm saying? I have one scene where he's not interacting with Matt. But this was a great chair episode. I was happy to see him. And like I was compelled even when Matt's getting super aggressive and he's like pulling Heather along and he's on the verge of trying to tell.

her like, look, I'm Daredevil, but just can't. And then Vanessa and Fisk are around. And they're, they're all doing this tangle of just like, who's going to, who's going to say something first? And I was like, this works. Like, it's going to be a danger. They put the colors together. The Brad, the Brad, Daredevil. Then they were, they were together forming a hero. They were kind of the more innocent group. Because she, Heather doesn't know that Matt is Daredevil. and Fisk doesn't know that Vanessa had Foggy killed. That works for me. That works.

So they're kind of dancing around there as the innocent ones. And Matt and Vanessa are the ones that have the secrets. Loved it. Thought it really, really worked. I got to say something else about Matt. Like Daredevil's a nigger, man. I got to be honest with you. I tell you why.

So Daredevil is doing something. And I hate to admit this, man. So Daredevil's, Vanessa's in front of his face and Daredevil's listening. No, she's not Vanessa. It's Heather. It's in front of his face and Daredevil's listening. He's looking at her, but he's listening to something else that's going on.

To this conversation, yeah. This gets you in trouble in your relationship. Yeah. Well, it's very convenient that he can't see you. But I'm telling you, it's like, I've been playing the game before and it's like, somebody comes over to you. Hey, do you know what this bitch told me? What's she say?

She said, and then all of a sudden, the game is here. The love of your life is here. And your brain is going, you can only choose one. And you're looking at the game and all of a sudden, you know what I'm saying? You're looking at the game and all of a sudden, when you turn back around, somebody's going, are you fucking listening?

And you're like, yeah, I heard you, man, fuck the hell. Little than me. Right. Just walk to the back. And now they mad at her and they're mad at you. You know what's even worse? Because I learned this trick was, I'll listen for like five or six seconds. And she's like, you don't know what I just said.

And I just repeat something. And she's just like, you weren't listening. And I was like, no. And it's so, because it's like, it's little victories. It's like, you listen to every. six word you hear late, girlfriend, text, whatever. And then you go, yeah, she was late with the text and you did, and she knows you weren't listening.

Yeah. And now you're gaslightening her. And she goes, uh-huh. And that's it. But when he did that, I was like, Matt, focus on your lady, bro. But it was so flavoring. It was so flavor. Because, again, I mean, he's blind, so he's not going to be able to look at her.

But he literally, like, cocks his head to the right to get a better. to hear their conversation better, I'm like, but here's the thing, too, Matt ain't shit because he shows up late. And then he tries to be too cute about it. He's like, yeah, you weren't the only one wearing Chanel number five. I'm like, bro, come on, you pissing out of me more. To that's my, sorry, there was another prosecutor I had to flirt with on the way here.

You know something else that's compelling is the I'm a superhero and is kicking my ass situation. Oh, yeah. that only Matt and Spider-Man really go through. Yeah. Like, everybody else kind of has a hold on this whole Superman thing, this whole superhero thing. But Matt and Spider-Man, the better hero they are, the worst people that they are. Yeah.

Matt was a great boyfriend serving that dare dick to her whenever she needed it. And then now he's back being Daredevil and he's not even listening to his woman anymore. all of that worked to me to like ratchet up the tension in this episode. Do you know what I am confused on? I'm confused on what happens now after he's taking a bullet from Kingpin because it seems as if because he's been shot now, we know he's not dead. Yeah. But he's off the board for a little while.

I don't see Daredevil in the season. Now he's going to lock in, bro. He's going to do that. He better get the LeBron stuff, man. Get them HCH, bro. Yeah, I bet it's like it goes in and out. Put some vassal wound on that shit. Yeah, lock in.

Stitch it up. Thompson? Yeah. Tunson, yeah. What was it? Was it in Spider-Man in 2018? Where he was like, oh, man, I broke like 10 bones. Like, you got your ribs, your whole thing.

You got 10 bones messed up. And he's like, bet. That means I got 196 that still work. Let's get it. Yeah. So wait, can I also ask this? This is, Heather might not be the, like, the sharpest tool in the shed. Because I always wonder this about.

You to find out. You're just going to continue to further the narrative, aren't you? Fuck, I don't. Anyway, you don't want to Like, the vasagity allegations I don't want I love women, I support women, whatever We need to, this is what I put the white

The shoddy powder is going high. Shout to my ladies. Y'all be careful. I'm getting my ass kicked right now. Left and right. Neighborhood talk kicking my ass. Ball alert kicking my ass. Oh, no. I'm getting my ass. I'm getting my ass.

Shout out to all the midnight ladies. Kamala Harris. I said that they, I'm getting my ass kicked right now. I'm a persona. in the community. Fuck you. Fat coon. Bro.

You can call me. I'm telling you, man. Just the most effective diss in the world is just fat bitch. Why? I don't know why, bro. I don't know why.

Break this out. I still don't know why fat bitch is so effective. They've been getting on my ass about the Kamala thing and it's cool. I get that people disagree and I understand people's concerns and all of that. People have been getting at me.

You are Kuhn. Harriet would have left you. All of that stuff, right? Wow. All of that stuff. That's crazy. You know, Harriet would have left you. You're funny.

Harriet would have left you. All of that stuff. Let me write that down. I tell you, I tell you right now, though, the most effective thing is I got a DM, and a DM just says, keep Vice President Harris's name out of your mouth. Fat bitch. And I looked at it like... That hits you harder than anything?

I'm looking at pictures of myself like, yo. Notice when we saw... Alea, when we started doing the podcast today, then I not turn and face the camera because I don't want to be shot from the side. Oh, gosh. So this speaks soon as security. Come on.

Alea told me she was like, move, but I'm sitting like this. Because I just got the fat bitch DM before I walked in. Wait, so fat bitch is worse than broke bitch. Because any time someone's like, you broke the I'm like. Well, that's not true. It's like, here's the thing.

It don't matter because it's just more so like they see your spirit. You know, I never told you out of this story, but I was driving down the street one time back in the old days. And it was this nigga. I don't know who this guy was. I must have said something on TMZ to piss him off. And he

actually stopped his car on Hollywood. Pulled to the side. Like Hollywood and like just like wherever the the Roosevelt is and I'm in my car on a thing and he he is out the side

of his G-wagon like out the side of his G-wagon like that's how you rolling Timsy oh no oh no all of that shit talk

and that's how they got you rolling out of a G-wagon and he just he literally looked like he was disappointed and he goes and then he gets back he goes

and he gets back in the G-wagon and the pillop off. I'm like, yo, I got to do better. Dang. Was worse than that. One time, like, a homeless person was, like, asking me for money, and I was with a girl, and whatever, I had, like, $5.

I was like, oh, here you go. And you look me up and down. That's it. And I was like, that's it. And I was like, yo. I'm like, don't do you like that, bro. That's nasty. But you really think, though, that we're going to get Daredevil in costume next

next episode when he's been shot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This has got to be like three months later or something. But how long did it take to look it up? How long did it take to get over like a bullet wound? Why do we do?

Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys. This is the same universe where they brought a lecture back from the dead. Now I mean, God forbid a dude. Yeah, but they were like mystical ninja stuff in that season. They just stopped existing? I, okay. So you're going to explain all of that in like 20 minutes? Here's thing, if it didn't hit no bone, he probably up again, it went through.

It's there. It's a daredevil, bro. Like, it's cool. I mean, he ain't got no super soldiers sharing, but still. Because I'm trying to wonder, we haven't really talked about it. We touched on it a little bit. What do you think Daredevil getting shot, particularly throwing himself in front of fist means for the story? I think that this is the first.

I think they'll give us it like an inclination of Kingpin and Matt. both, I think, operate under the same rules, the same laws of respect of, of this is what we do, this is not what we do. If you cross this line, this is how I'm going to cross this line. And Matt finally, like, taking the bullet for Kingpin, I think is almost weirdly going to make their relationship stronger.

Even though they're still going to be enemies, I think in the same way that Fisk and Vanessa are like this, I think actually Matt taking the bullet for Fisk, Fisk finding out that Vanessa lied about King's, killing Foggy is almost going to make him run back to his side bitch, but that's still a while, like, not to say that that's a wild assumption to know that Foggy's still alive,

but, like, that is yet to be revealed. That actually isn't confirmed. I mean, you guys are really convinced that Foggy's alive. I'm convinced. I'm not convinced Foggies alive. I think he's dead,

but again, mystical ninja stuff, I think is more likely than, because he hurt his heart stop. Yeah, here's the thing that would be, like, kind of too much if, I think it would be too much if they reveal Foggy's alive

in the final. episode in like the 11th hour of that conflict. If there isn't a time jump of some kind that he's either healed or like maybe the task force is getting out of control out of the mayor's hands and it's just kind of like, you know, trigger happy cops wanting to lock people up. That's probably a bit more of a like logical thing because the task force is kind of getting nuts. I don't see a world in which we see like a,

like, kingpin daredevil punch out. That's not really, they're not on that collision. They won't go there right now. I think we're going to see Bullseye. We can't have a third season ending with that. No, it's going to be Bullseye.

It's going to be him and Bullseye. I mean, I don't, we don't know what I have the Bullsley afterwards, but I assume he got away. And so that's what it's going to end up being. How does Heather not know, like how does Heather not look at Daredevil's body

and not see like all the cuts. When he got cut in his leg when he was fighting news and they were in the shower together? I'm like, how are you not? Because even in like the Netflix version, that motherfucker was getting like bull's eye, the hand, just cut up. I'm just like he's Batman level of scarred.

I would hope. Why is she just like, what is? I would hope that next week opens in the hospital. And she's like, I recognize that that energy. I recognize that motion. You were there that day. You were daredevil type beat. Because if it's not that...

That's so dumb. If it's not... If that happens, I'm not showing up. That's so... I don't think she's going to find out who he is next week. I think... She's going to find out of. She's going to die.

Oh, you think she's out of here? Oh, she's... Oh. You think she's out of here to make room... To make room for Karen? I mean, spoiler, spoiler, but hasn't it already been, like, kind of revealed that Karen's coming up? She got the rest of it.

Well, they have the set photos from showing Matt and Karen in season two, but we don't know in what context or for how long. Depending upon how good the season finale is, do you think the season finale can make you rethink the season from being a little all over the place, or do you think at this point it can just get you excited for season two? So this is what the season finale has to do as we look ahead. It has to organize the season to me. So I've had enough fun with the show, right?

And it's very difficult to watch the show without the context of everything surrounding it. I get that. We don't want to talk about it at Nazim here. We want to talk about the episodes. We want to have fun. But it's very difficult to watch the show and not think about all the stuff that we know, right? It's kind of like watching The Flash now. The Flash is running around in the movie and you're thinking, well, who's he running to go enslaved?

So, you know what I'm saying? You can't do it. You know what I'm saying? You can't do it. I think that the finale has to organize the show as much as it can in a way that puts everything that we've seen, all the messy parts of it, at least in their places. Yeah. Not reconcile them because I don't think that's possible. But you have a very messy room.

but a room full of messy stuff that's cool to play with, right? A room full of messy toys. And then what you want to do so you can move on and play with your toys in an efficient way is you want to organize those toys. I think in this episode, you saw some of that. You saw an organization of the relationships. Now, in the next episode, they have to go a little bit further with that. Well, because I think what I'm looking towards,

and I don't think that this penultimate episode did it, even though I enjoyed a lot of elements is, can they convince me by the season finale that their vision for season two is worth checking out? Because I think before I started the season of Daredevil, I'm like, oh, this might be a new era for Disney Plus, kind of getting back to basics, potentially we get a Luke Cage or Jessica Jones season,

potentially we're getting more street-level events. And right now, after the Penn Ultimate, I'm still a little bit like Terovel reminds me more of Moon Night than it does anything that's a successful. I mean, it's better than Moon Night, but that's fair. I mean, you can't, in my opinion, I mean, what I'm saying is we can't,

if we're being honest with ourselves, we can't say that this was a, I like the show. Yeah, I like the show. But if you were for some reason looking to this show to be the show that is proof of concept that Marvel has finally figured out TV, I don't see how I could be. Well, no, I mean, but again,

surrounding the entire production, you got to throw it a little bit of bail, depending on where you're at. I think some people might throw it more, some people might throw it less. But compared to Moon Knight, it's a little tough. Hey, there's no, like, big crocodile. They've got to fight at the end of it.

I'm more so talking at, obviously, the directors from Moon Knight are working on this. I more so mean in terms of just like the ceiling of the show, if I'm being quite honest, where I'm like, I think the ceiling,

of the Netflix show was super, super high. And I think the ceiling for this show is a lot lower than I originally expected it to me. Well, I mean, go ahead and see you know, and I think that's fine. And I think that if, in my opinion, when I look at like the season as a whole, like say that I really, really like the finale and where it goes and if I'm excited enough for a season two, I kind of wash away all the things that were in the middle a bit. Again, this is a far more generous comparison. but if I were to think about like Loki season two, as occasionally clunky as the middle of that season was, it began and ended in ways that I thought were brilliant.

Interesting. And I ultimately was very favorable about that season. I don't know if it's going to, I don't think it's going to reach the heights of a Loki season two. But if the season ends on a really good note, that gets me excited for what's to come, that's more than a pass for me. And it will be something that,

it would be something that was interesting to kind of talk about for us. because we've seen shows that for the most part were good shows that ended so terribly that we really couldn't give them the vote of confidence that we wanted. Falcon and the Winter Soldier is a perfect example of like when we go back to watch it now, we're like, oh, this is better than we remember.

And I was like, no, there were a lot of good episodes. It was the last one that kind of, yeah, poison the whole, but to me... It's a good show, though. I'm sorry. There was a lot of good and... Yeah, but go ahead with Trump. No, I was going to more so just say,

I think the thing that I'm also looking for in season two is, is I think that they made a gamble with just the visual style and tone for season one. And I'm hoping that was season two, we get something that visually looks on the level, not the same as a Wanda Vision

or a Falcon and the Winter Soldier or Loki, because I don't care what you say about those shows. To me that, like, they were up and down, but those shows looked good. Like, they had a tone that reinforced the story that they're trying to tell. And I'm like, hey, the sunny tone for Daredevil to me didn't work.

The splashy, like, this is suits, shit, didn't work. I kind of want them, because even with this penultimate episode, I'm like, would I like this a little bit more if visually, because the tone of what they're saying and the acting and the narrative, I was like, there's a bunch of stuff working here, but it still looks like the other version of the show. You know what I mean?

Well, no, it doesn't look like the other version of the show. Oh, you mean the version of the show they're telling this? Yeah. Yeah, because, like, there was a scene of them all walking into the gala where, you know, they got the smoke. That's supposed to be the smoke coming from New York and all of that stuff. It just didn't look very good.

I'm like, oh my God, that kind of, this looked, that looked like a TV show. That don't even look like lawn or order. That don't even look like Law & Order. Yeah, that's not even look like Law & Order. I'm like, eh, tough. But once again, we'll see what the finale has in store for us.

I really enjoyed the episode. I thought it was by far the best episode of the season because it was the most cohesive episode of the season. I would almost, you know, we've talked about it, but you'd expect to see Daredevil next week. I guess you'd expect to see Daredevil. The show is called Daredevil born again. Yeah, you got to.

Expect for him to be born again next week with a, what a fucked up? My thing is this. So Daredevil has a broken wing, right? Whenever a superhero has a broken wing or something like that, they always make them fight somebody who would normally fuck over them, but then they got the broken wink. Think about the

end of Gladiator, right? When Maximus has to fight, uh, what's Cry baby ass nigga name. Wachie Phoenix? Yeah, what's his name? Crybaby ass bitch. Septimus? What was his name?

Cornelius? Cornelius. Comonis. Comonis. He's got to fight him. And they know that if they fight regular, Maximus is fucking him over. So they gave him a little bit of the poison

and slow him down to tick. So I'm wondering, who will Daredevil with the broken wing have to fight? Will you have to fight the task force, the cop guys? They got to take the time. That's my biggest question because... Does he call somebody in?

It's obviously maybe... Maybe the Punisher. Wait, who would you... The Punisher? Is the Punisher coming back? Maybe the Punisher comes back to help him. It's... Like, now you have...

You have three villains on the board. You have Wilson Fiske. You have Bullseye. You have the task force. Wilson, we don't... We imagine there's going to be a little bit of... Not a complete reconciliation, but you took a bullet from me.

My girl lied to me about killing Yahami. There's a little bit of a kumbaya chance there. Bullseye and the task force are just out there in the wild now right? There's only one episode left. I don't know how you deal with both unless you bring the Punisher in and you're like oh by the way they're using your thing. Whoa, whoa, we got swordsman.

He could use it. So a source of me. Hey, yeah. You literally might get busy. We might see. They set up a scene because if Bulls are, if the Punisher fights the Task Force, RIP to the Task Force. It's good.

Like they're because the Punisher don't knock you out. Yeah, but he's like, Heather, Heather's going to be right. If he teams up with the, like, he teams up with Punisher or Punch he's just like, yeah, palpinsure. He's going to shoot this castle. He's going to be a love, somebody love for Call of Duty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's like, he's going to blow them up or something like that. It's going to be like Rick at the end of the shit. I'm like, this thing was like, bha! Yeah. He's shooting everybody. But if, if it's swordsmen, that would be fun to see swordsmen finally in action if they can get swordsmen right. So we'll see.

I'm looking forward to the last episode. All right. That is a wrap this week on the reverse feed. This Friday, House of Bar will give you their daredevil deep dive. The Sunday night, the Midnight Boys will give you their instant reactions to The Last of Us. Right after the episode ends, we're coming right after the episode ends. And boy, am I concerned? I, it's already getting toxic.

No, the discourse will be terrible. The discourse is going to be terrible. I mean, yes, but also, I mean, the show's good. No, the show's awesome. I'm excited for the show. I'm not excited for. The conversation. The conversation about to get.

Guys, I'm sick of the talk. I'm sick of y'all. Can y'all, it's like we can't have nothing. We were playing the beautiful South of Midnight game. Shout out to ButtMash. Shout out to Jess and shout out to Ben. And we were talking about the fact that they were a view bomb in the game. So just, y'all just, just no niggas, huh?

Just no, just no niggas, no women, no gay people. That's like, that's the world y'all want. That's it. So whenever they put somebody in it, we don't have stories. Whenever they put somebody in it, we are the waitresses of the world. We are the servers of the world. Like, we can't. So whenever they put somebody in it, y'all just going to freak out every time.

What makes me worse is I'm just like, I'm serious. They get mad when we're just the best friend. I'm like, damn, I can't be the best friend no more. No, damn. Like, what are we supposed to do? Like, what is the deal? It's like, we want to stop making a slave movies. But that's the only time y'all go, yeah, I can see them in that.

Right. It's like in the slave movies. It's like we want to, can we have, can we live? No. No. That's what we're learning. Nah. Nah.

We can't hear. Nope. Wrong answer. Unfortunately. Steve, I need you to email. Wait, what happened to no race? What was you like that? It was a tough.

Just for higher learning, though, right? I got to put it up on the board. So you know what I said on higher learning, right? No. So I have three race demerits per podcast. Right. Yes. And then if.

I go over, I have to take my shirt off on the podcast. So the one of us comment last time was not. That doesn't count. This is a demerit. And then if I get to three demerits before the end of the month, it's Titty Fest 20205. I got to take my shirt off. Titty Fest. Right, God. Damn. Tini Fest 2025.

Maybe just a Titty accentuating shirt. Maybe. Well, no, I'm going to take the shirt off. So it's going to be folds. Let me tell you shirt. Okay. Off. I told, I told, I said, told this on higher learning. So, you know, I've lost weight, but I got to keep going. Sure. Yes. Okay. I was playing the VR game,

the boxing game, and I heard a clap. I heard a clap. You heard a titty clap? I don't know where it came from. It could have been titty. My ass could have been clapping. It could have been a fold somewhere. I'm fighting. I'm doing my thing. I heard how loud was the clap? It was loud enough to where I heard it.

Through the headphones? With the fucking headphones in, I heard a clap. And I'm like, and it's funny because I stopped. I'm ringing wet with sweat because I'm playing a boxing game. I stopped and was like, oh shit, we to this point, because a clap is

crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. But maybe I want to recreate it. Maybe I want to make a video clapping. I don't know. But I don't know where it came. Let's write it off. Let's let's go. Let's get the fuck out of here. I really do. I really do apologize sincerely to everyone

out there. We'll give you their deep dive into the premiere of Last of Us. Our producers are Alea, Zanaris, Jonathan, Kerma. Jomi Adelon on socialists. Jomi Blind to the Red Flags. It's true. Hashtag Jomey Blonde to the Red Flags. An additional production from Arjuna Ram Capal.

Chuck, take us out. Steve X was spitting. You know what we're about by the season finale of Daredevil. Matt and Dan might have the double D's out. That was one of your best yet. Oh, my God. Also, Van, I have a proposition for you. I think April should be no race,

but I think May should be you can't talk about women. I can't talk about women at all. You can't talk about women at all. How can I not talk about women? Save this for the... But we got to talk about women because we got to honor them. You don't do that.

I don't do that. What? Y'all don't be doing that. What did I say wrong about women? Y'all don't be doing that. that. So actually, I would say for all of the Midnight Boys. May is, you can't talk about women. So you're saying, we have looked women? So, Eleas, so you're saying that the best way to honor women is to not talk about them? The best way to honor women is for men to keep their names out of their mouths. Oh, see? Now, this is a, I think this is a bit of a double standard here, because you want us, you want us to be activated in allies, but we can't do that if we don't speak up.

Every time y'all talk about women, you talk about how bad she is. That's it. Who that's not true? That is so true. What do we say it was even bad? You literally did it the whole time. We did. You did object by me? Maybe the mid-I boys can't talk about women.

Can I be honest? Bibi and Heather. Well, let me ask you. They cast in them. They know that they look good. That's not no. You can't be doing that. That's not what you.

Wait. You know the rule, man. So we can't say that, Bibi and Heather. We can't say they look good. That's all you all you say. Don't fucking cuck out. That's not all they said, but they do lead with, you guys do lead with that. It's crazy, I'm going to be honest.

It's crazy at Bill Simmons Podcast Network. We can't talk about how beautiful black women are. Yeah, it's crazy. You don't want to talk about our sisters? I'm in trouble with the Kamala Harris thing. I wouldn't have sent out the Sierra tweet, though. I wouldn't have known. Oh, no, that's got to say.

That's got to stay. No. I wouldn't, wait a minute. By the way, I, was, I'm about to fucking blow. I was, Sierra's bouncing around,

she got the new video. She looks great. Sierra wants people to know that she looks great after she had a baby. That's not, no, no, no. I'm helping Sierra.

No, no, no. Can I tell you? You can't say that after the baby part? Can I tell you? It's two things. It was greedy loins. Oh, and ruin.

What? You were going to ruin it. Okay, so let me explain this to you guys right now. I was like, and Alea, I want you to jump in on this. Ruin is crazy.

Ruin is not the word. Olaea has a new nickname. Olaea's strong woman Zanaris. Oh, no. No, this is getting burst. April really is. Now I agree with Laleo. We should not have a point.

We really shouldn't talk about it. She might have a point. So it's wrong for me to say Alea's one of the strongest woman I know she is. That's not what you said. Strong woman Zanaris. No, mine. You know what that.

You know what strong woman would be. Let's go back to Segarra. You can't, it's 2025. You can't be leading with she looked like. Russell Wilson is going to get her pregnant and ruin her. He's crazy. So let me explain to the woke youngsters that still voted for Trump. That's not.

All right. So let me explain to you what I meant. This is what I meant. All right. So Sierra looks great. Okay. Now, I'm going to say something and maybe what I say right now will be wrong. Okay.

Okay. It is a very, to me, most women, look their best after they've had a baby. I am a man who likes the thickness. I like, for me, it's like 1.40, 150 and up. You know what I mean? So, like, and that's thin to me. I like thick women.

I like, I like women. Like thick women. So to me, after you've had the baby, you almost always more aesthetically. You're not a better person. You almost, you aesthetically look better. Yes. You're womanly.

All this, the hormones release on it. Okay. So Sierra had some kids. And Sierra was always a beautiful woman. But now, if you see her now, there's some thickness and some stuff that is popped out. Right. And I like it. Okay.

And I enjoy looking at that version of Sierra. Sure. I do not objectify pregnant ladies. Okay. So if Russell Wilson, impregnate Sierra, I will not be able to look at her in that way again. So I'm glad that Russell is working.

Let me stop you. And right there. What's the opposite? It's right there. Yeah. What's the opposite? This is not a word around. I really, you guys are really, like,

put this in. No, no. This is bad. If you don't understand, like, that part where you're just like, now Russell Wilson is going to ruin my enjoyment. of his wife. Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question?

What was the clip that I posted under that? What was the clip that I posted? I think we all know the clip. I think if you want to show it on the thing, that's fine. What's the clip that I posted? What was Sierra doing in the clip? I was bouncing around dancing and having a good time. In what?

In a bathing suit thing or a... In her... In underwear, right? Okay. I'm assuming that Sierra, who I followed for an entire career who is very sexy, that she is doing that to be enticing to people.

She wants to show her goodies. That's fair. She's inviting goodies. She's inviting us to look at her as a sexual being. Right. So, but nothing that she could wear invites you comparing to what she could wear being ruined by her husband. You have to understand the connotation of the words you use it. Oh, wait, why can you just leave a fire emoji and keep it?

Yeah, because that's not what the fuck I wanted to say. What I wanted to say was that I want this era of C.A. This era of Sierra, this era where she is, she is jumping around and with the finest, I wanted to last a long time. And I don't want Russell Wilson. That's where you got to stop. I keep losing you. No, no. No, no.

No, no. Can't say the ruin shit. No, you know what? No. No. No. Harriet should have left you behind. I'll stay behind and I'll enjoy myself.

Because if I'll be on this island alone, I'll be on this island alone. My last question, would you be sad if Harriet left you behind but she was looking thick? No, because I get to walk, watch her walk away. We're tired.