The Ringer-Verse - Is ‘The Penguin’ FINALLY a Comic Book Show? Plus, 'Agatha' Ep. 7 | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

The Boys are back to bring you the latest from ‘The Penguin’ (12:56) and ‘Agatha All Along’ (51:02). They then dive into the latest nerd news: the removal of 'Blade’ from the Marvel 2025 calendar (1:11:49). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is of course the Ringer's Nexus podcast. The Feed for all things. Fandom, we are Steve, the architect Alman, aka the Clapper. All right.

Oh, right. We're not even three seconds in. That's actually crazy. That sounds nuts. That sounds nuts. The clapper. The clapper. We'll talk about it.

I'm a light fiction. You guys have to wait until the venom pod. You have to come back for the venom pod to get Steve's clapping story. We are, Jomi, the explainer. Adirond,

you've got questions. He's got answers. We are Old Man Van He of the receding resurgent hairline. We are Coke baby Chuck, the 24-carat closer, aka the brunch hot. We have the Midnight Collective with us today. My man, I don't. We just met. Neil.

Neil. Neil. Neil. What would you like your nickname to be, Neil? Dang. Put me on the spot there. Yeah. How do you choose your own nickname, though?

It's true, but like real Neil? Real. Hey, I like that. Real Neil. Real Neil. That's pretty good. What's your last name, Neil? Francisco.

Oh, fuck. That's a fucking cold-ass name, bro. What the fuck? Real Neil Francisco. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Real Neil Francisco. When's the album?

I don't know. It sounds like a pimp name. Real Neal Francisco. That's a winner. What a ass name, bro. Real Neal Francisco. Aleo O'Brien's Nairis and. Come on.

Come on. Come on. What? From Venham? What are you all doing? The black one. Oh. Why?

I knew it was coming. That was my favorite part. I want to get into any. I was about a way with like, you guys. The nigger Vennel. You guys got to come back. All right. I'm just telling you right now.

It's going to be great. Are we all the midnight boys? All right. Follows on socials, it's the Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomey's job, Jummi. The socials are going fantastic. We're having a ton of fun.

It's Quarweek. right now. So you got all the ringer in LA and we're making so much fun content. I can't wait for you guys to see it. Explain to people what core week is for people that don't know. It's a great question. Core week is you know, core week as explained in the Spotify bylaws is a week where we all come together, right? And we, we just work on our course. You know what I mean? We try to get, we try to get in shape. You know, you get like right here. Fucking terrible. I don't, I literally don't know. I I literally don't know.

I couldn't tell you. Okay. Can anyone explain what Core Week is to the team building week? It's team building week. It's basically what we get together. We talk about what we're doing at the ringer, what we're going to look forward to doing at the ringer. How we're going to be working together in all the best ways that we can. It's funny because like I went to like a ringer.

There was a thing that was in the stage. Like that had like an all ringer presentation. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't realize the ringer is very corporate. It's like because I'm not on the corporate side. What a wrong. Your job is not at the meeting.

You're not at the meetings. I'm not at the meetings because I'm not, people don't know, it said I have a different relationship with the ringer, so the ring is very corporate. Like, Sean Finnessy was out there on his Steve Jobs' turtleneck shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looked like a TED Talk. It did.

Next slide, please. And so I'm sitting there because when everybody thought that, when you told me to come into the room and that it was, that everybody was in the room? I said main stage. And you're like, why? I'm like, why is everybody in there? And then when we go there,

I thought it was going to be like, fun games and prizes and like there was you missed cornhole and balloon pop that was the Halloween thing yeah um so so they had that at core week yesterday yeah yeah yeah for real yeah so what y'all what y'all do

we were playing cornhole with uh cole right yeah i got a free speaker i got fucking candles everything cornhole was fun so you play cornhole you want a speaker what other games were there that was like a dart at bowling a little bar boom pop they had a tarot reader like reach a tarot Oh, so witchcraft Satan. Okay, so...

First of all, I think you would have had a lovely time with tarot. Satanic. Satanic. So Satanic energies. Terro? What do you think? I know you didn't. Satanic energies.

Being brought into the ringer. That's how you know. Cool. So, okay, so see, I didn't come to that. When I came to it, it was like... And by the way, the... I'm not saying that it was whack, because the thing was, it was informative. Yeah.

I just didn't know that that's how it was. I really didn't. Do you think that we just like, do you think the ringer just like disappears when you're not there? That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, it's like new ringer strategies and all of that stuff.

I would have, I guess I would assume, because even at TMZ, we never did that. We never had the TMZ where Harvey came out there like, I mean, that shows. This is the way we're going to fuck somebody's life up this year. We have new and important strategies. New and innovative.

ways to get in and rip their shit. It was fun. It was interesting to see that, you know, you guys got teams, you guys have goals. We got ringer books. Ring her books. Ringer films. A lot of cool stuff coming. Core Week.

Good to see a lot of people that you haven't seen together at Coral Week. Core Week's cool. By way, appreciate the, Jummi, you just, once again, brother, the explainer on Core Week. Was that, okay, I'm not going to even be, was that a sufficient explainer from Joe? Of course not. He'll admit it. We're now on YouTube.

You can watch every Midnight Boy's House of R and Talk to Throne. episodes on YouTube.com backslash at Ring Reverse, like, comment, and subscribe. Let's have a conversation with the audience real quick about the YouTube. Is it okay? Go ahead. No, you don't want to? You don't want to? I want to. Last time we had to take it out. That's true.

So all I'll say is this. Go and watch the shit on YouTube. Great. All right. Watch it on YouTube. For some of y'all, even if you're just listening, listen on YouTube. Go over there. It's a lot of special YouTube stuff that we have coming.

special stuff from Chuck special stuff from Steve special stuff from Jomey all right special stuff from me Kerm maybe depending like

I got I got shit on the way yeah yeah oh shit we got James coming man new shit coming man just in fairness Kerm I think I have a poetry idea for you on the YouTube

oh I got hey bro I got like poetry interstate I got superhero That's what I'm saying. Superhero thing. Give us a little taste.

Give us a little taste. Do you have a little taste of a, you can't think of one off the top? 60 bars on Steve Austin right now. I got a poem right now. I'm not going to recite it. It's called The Race of A-Train versus Quicksilver. It's kind of tough. It's real life shit though.

It's real life shit. Oh, so it's a, oh, hold on for a second. Let me talk about what this is about real quick. This is about like a niggas that's fast against like white boys that's fast. It's like, it's a whole societal thing. It's, yeah. Monkey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm fucking with that. You should have a real-s-military shit. All I will say, though, is we usually get on Jomi for Begging on Social. YouTube. You can't be begging. Yeah, but I think we have to. Oh, my, man. Nah, bro.

I mean, there's differences between begging and, like, you know, encouraging. So you're right, first of all. You're right. Like, so that's the first thing. You're right. Jomi begging on socials is kind of like, I'll tell you why I don't like it. It's number one. It's number one.

It's self-centered. It's just like this thing by and say. Number two, hey, follow. Make sure to follow the Instagram and at Twitter and that TikTok. First of all, I will say I have to admit you straight up that Charles is right.

I'm being a hypocrite right now. Charles is right. But the only difference is this YouTube thing is a point of real consternation right now. And a lot of people that get, we want you to check out the YouTube, all right. Fucking go to it. You know or don't.

Charles was right. Fuck it. Um, all right. He can be talked away from down. He's right. He's right. He's right.

Tomorrow, House of Arr will have their act at the deep dive for you. Also tomorrow, the Midnight Boys will give you their instant reacts to venom the last dance. It's going to get heated.

It's really great. Look, I don't know that there's a movie that I've been more interested in talking about. Not, it's just, I can't wait until people

start seeing the movie. That's all I'm saying. I can't wait. Oh, my goodness. Also next week we'll have button mash. We'll have buttonmash. We'll have Budmash, Ringiverse recommends, and Mitt Vindber.

will soon be upon us. What do we have in store for the November? Very special, exciting month. It's exciting. The entire month of November, mid-edition is going to be giving you episodes on Arcane. Every week. Every single week.

Why is it mid-Member? Because it's November. It's November. It's mid-edition. Yeah, but you're just covering Arcade. I don't get why it's just like. Because we're doing the whole month. We usually go bi-weekly, you know what I'm saying?

It's weekly now. Every week. It's all month. We're excited. No, I'm excited for you. But Mitt Vember don't make no sense. Yeah, I don't, I'm not calling it Mibber. Well, okay, should there be a different name?

We want to brand it. It's, it's, it's Mint Bember because you guys are covering a show. Right. You guys doing something special. Every week for the month of November. Right. You're getting a new episode of Mint Edition. Okay.

Covering Arcade. We might, we're also covering lower decks. There's a whole litany of stuff. So then like, that's, okay, so that's because that's because it makes more sense. Yeah, so, but why, why I got to be mint Vember now? Because we're, because we want to brand it. We want to have some fun. Yeah.

We're bringing new episodes every week for the month of November. Okay. Mitt-Vember. Mitt-Vimber. I'm not someone doing the name. Okay. Should we workshop it? Do we need to- No, no, no, no.

It's your name. It's your name. Don't listen to them. Don't listen to them. I'm not trying. It's your name. It's your name. Mitt-Vember don't got a ring to it, though.

It's like, it's kind of, yeah. Okay. You know what I'm saying? It's, but guess what it is, Charles? It's fucking Mitt-Vimber. Yeah. We're coming to you episode every week. Arcane.

What else? Star Trek Lower Decks. Star Trek Lower Dex. Can't miss it. On today's show, we'll give in our instant reactions to the latest episodes of Penguin and Agatha while also discussing the Blade News and its troubled development. Penguin and Agatha, two shows in different places.

Much different places. We'll see how we feel about those. Penguin, instant reaction. Instant reaction. Spoiler warning for all DC stuff. DC in the past. we might talk about Batman Returns with somebody was mad that we spoiled Batman Returns.

Oh, no, no, no. Wait, a 30-year-old movie? 1945, what are you talking about? Is that 30 years old? It's, yeah, it's 1999, right? So it's like, over 30 years old. So the reality is like, it's bullshit. I'm gonna be honest.

A new, like, midnight rule, if the movie has been out for a year longer, you can't bitch about spoilers. I say one weekend. One weekend? I think that's a little. Well, no, you know what? I like the weekend.

Oh, but we can't, we can't, we probably can't do it. What, okay, what is the, what is the cutoff for sportless? Real establishment one right now. Okay, TV show, Night of. Yeah. Yep, I agree. But what if you got to work? Tough, get off line.

Yeah, you can't be online. Yeah, you can have to be listening to a Midnight Boys episode about a TV show that you ain't watched yet. You know what I'm saying? Well, it's not even, it's not even that. Just being like online. Yeah, yeah. Okay, movies. Okay, what's what movies?

Movies like the weekend. Yeah, you give them the weekend. I give them to Monday. Yeah, you give it to Monday. you don't talk a specific. Ask you guys a question. Should we make this decision unilaterally or should we involve the audience? I think this is a matter of personal preference.

I'm happy to hear what. Actually, let's put the audience. Can the audience vote? I'm asking. But it's different things because those things are like TV episodes. Okay, that's a different precedent for, say, a movie. For a 30-year-old movie.

But what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is I do kind of feel like in a real way, the spoiler thing now is just a way for people to have something else to bitch about. Yeah, for sure. Because you can't be serious. about like being mad that we fucking ruined Batman Returns, my nigga. I was at camp when that shit came out. Yeah.

Fuck you. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I got the McDonald's. I literally was at, I was at summer camp, like, when that shit came out. Yeah. The movie's older than me and I've seen it. Like, come on. Let's be for real. Sorry.

I can't wait till you get old, Johnny. I am old. I see. What are the, one of my favorite? You're old, Joe? I'm old. I'm 28, man. One of my favorite moments of this entire show was when,

you mentioned house party and Charles was like oh was that the one with kid and play fuck out we're getting ready to talk about the penguin now fuck y'all we're wondering for people now fuck y'all that is all and it's yeah it's the one with kid in play we're getting ready to talk about the penguin you're listening

to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right, Chuck, manifest. All right. This is a midnight manifest for the Penguin Homecoming, directed by Helen Shaver, written by Brenna Gibson and Che Obana. Um, yeah, so we've returned to the present. Oz is feeling on top. He's got my man

Moroni shanked. He's taken over the fucking Bliss game. Meanwhile, we get Sophia, who's no longer a falcon. Now she wants to head up the Jigant. family taking her mother's maiden name. Unfortunately, that means Vidi is fucking out of here. By the end of this episode, what we get is Oz?

Little out of sorts. His mushrooms only has two cases of them. And Sophia has now teamed up with Moronis to go after Oz Cobb. That's been your Midnight Manifest. Wow. Now, you were before we were bullshit for a half hour, then you were basically like, The Penguin and Agatha, two shows in two completely different zones right now.

What did you mean by that? I meant that the Penguin at this point is still getting to the point to where it's, at this point in the show, it's getting to a point to where the last, essentially the third act of the season. Yeah. Is still unclear, maybe a little bit more clear now. Agatha is, you know where Agatha's kind of going. You see there's enough that's happening. in Agatha, you've met enough characters,

lost enough characters. There's been a big reveal to where Agatha's getting to the point to where you see what it's ending at. Penguin is just rounding into this. This episode actually is the beginning

of the third act of Penguin while Agatha is like in the middle or maybe almost towards the end of there. Still probably a couple more surprises from Agatha, but Penguin is kind of just getting there to that way. So for, we were talking, I think, in a previous episode about is Penguin a crime show? Is it a comic book show? This was the episode where I'm just like, oh, they're fully leaning into the like comic book nature of the world, which I think I was a little bit jarred by because the last episode, I think that was very like, that's your prestige episode.

You're like, Kristen Cook. And I was like, I was a little left scratching my head a little bit where I was like, was that the right move to fully lean into the comic book, and kind of back off the more real-world crime elements. So it's an interesting conversation because at the end of the episode, he essentially establishes his layer. Yeah. I mean, he does, right? Like, he is the penguin, right?

And we were wondering how much we've been having a very, I think, interesting conversation about what makes a comic book movie or what makes a piece of comic book fair, how much of a character has to exist in a specific iteration of a character for it to be the comic book, accurate character.

So you saw a little bit more of what Penguin is going to be. We thought that Penguin was going to exist as sort of the biggest crime boss of all of these people and go against Batman. Now it kind of seems

that this schism between him and this new super crime family will exist in perpetuity and he will operate as an underground criminal organization of his own, out of the way of them, which kind of how is how he operates

in the comic books and the cartoons. But it was funny, the beginning of the show, I felt like it was almost running away from that portrayal of Oswald Cobblepot. I think I at least thought that they wanted a more grounded gang story. And in this one, I was just like,

even Sophia, she's full-blown villain in this. Like, she's like, she's super villain now. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that Heath Ledger's Joker is a grounded portrayal of the Joker? Actually, I do. Right. Yet still the Joker.

Still the Joker. Right. So the question is like, and Nicholson's Joker, although it is very Joker, is actually kind of not grounded, right? No, it's very comic. Fantastic. Very over-the-soccur. However, maintains the sinister center and the edge that you need for the character to beat a Joker without drifting into Caesar Romero or any of that stuff. Right.

do it. I do see the observation that the show does make a turn in this episode. It doesn't get, like she almost goes into costume. Yeah. Like in a way. And I don't think it was, I don't think it was jarred or that it shocked me. I really enjoyed the episode, but I did go, oh, okay. That's basically how I reacted to it. It seems like when you saw this happening, Did you think they shouldn't have done that? Or did you think, I wonder what made them do that? Like, how did you react to it? I'm starting to feel like the Batman movie

and the penguin are living in different worlds, where it's like the Batman to me is a very grounded portrayal of Gotham and crime and just this world. And I think this episode pushed it a little bit into the more fantastical elements. And I think the thing that, even though I've had problems with the penguin, what I appreciated is I'm like, oh, there's still an element of like, these are real people. And when, like, Sophia just, like, kills Viti, where I was just like, that's the only guy who kind of has juice with any of the other crime families. And she just, like, plops the money on the table.

I'm like, that shit would happen in a comp book. That's just not really. I kind of like this, though, because we had mentioned, we had joked about this a little bit with, like, the penguin getting his. his umbrella at the end of this show where they're like these origin stories as grounded as they can be they always like near the tail end of it sort of like lean into the fantastical in the sense that like somebody suits up by the end like you become the penguin you become what sophia falcon is you become the batman like and based on all of that iconography of the things that they do or the things that they might even look like come the end of it we kind of accept that as like okay this is

clearly how that character can evolve. I think if the show doesn't do these things, do we still like it or does it just kind of keep it at a slightly lower echelon from like the prestige comps that we've been giving of it to the soprano the speed of which it happens

because like Breaking Bad, the genius thing about Breaking Bad is like you're slowly seeing Walter White become Heisenberg. And it's happening over seasons where you're like it's a little bit more believable. We've only been with Sophia for what? This is the fifth episode.

Yeah. So in the last episode, I think, we saw her not really have any kind of crime acumen. Her dad was noticing like, hey, my son's the dickhead, you're the one. But at that point, all she had really done is go to some like fundraisers, talk a little bit, then go to Arkham. And I was like, her turn to villain. I was like, damn, this is happening really, really fast. I kind of wanted more steps.

Well, she murdered somebody in Arkham, right? And then after that, you know, you kind of lose yourself to the Blitz. And again, I imagine meeting her noncom can't be fun. You think of interesting new ways to kill people. And then when you get out, you lock in. I kind of feel like it's a little bit overstated about how quick it happened. I think she was knocking for 10 years, right? So like over those 10 years, she figured it out and clearly got out and was like,

I got to make a play. I got to make a move, right? I think she's been locked in. For this episode specifically, we talked about last week how like, you know, it's going in a half time. You know, you got a big lead. I think this episode is probably like a table setter for the next half, right? Because it ends with the supercrime family, right?

The Moronies and the Higantes. And to your point, you said that like maybe this is where a penguin like is just like under. I think this is setting up him to take them down. You know, because she survives. It's a wild thing because I'm like, I don't really know what is on or off the table. I think she survives. There's any rumors that she's going to be in the next half. survives the show. Yeah, I think she survives the show. Because I think what's happening now is, by the way, her name herself,

Iiagante is funny. Are you guys, do you guys ever watch Sabadoo DiGante? Oh, it's Don Francisco. You ever see, you ever watch it before? No, I never seen it. Oh, man. But you looked at me like you were on the same page. Well, he said Francisco. You said Francisco, so immediately looked up. Don Francisco is the host of Sabadoi Agante. One time I was back in like 2001 or 2002. Hell, yeah. I was flipping through the channels Univision or whatever it was. And I saw some Latino ladies on there. I'll be honest, that's why we stayed. Yeah, I saw some Latino ladies on there, and I was like, whoa, whoa.

Hey. We know what the vibe. Come on, man. We know what the vibe's on. We know what the vibe is. Steve, move on, right? We know what the vibe. Let's move on. Why would you say that?

Why would you throw the live? He knows. That's how. We know, we know that's what he was. He loves the Sabino Diagante because of the Latino the ladies. Why is that wrong? I was not that it's wrong. What happened was he said something and then when you said something, he was like, oh, let's not go there. Why would you give him that in?

Oh, that is, that is fair. Well, listen, but I'm not going to do it. My entire journey here is setting myself up for failure socially. But, but. Jesus Christ. That got dark. Don't hang around those niggers. Oh, wow.

What are you trying to say? What are you trying to say? What are you trying to say? What are you trying to say? No, no, not that. My entire journey here is set me up for social favor. Steve saw all these white people at Corwick. He's like, I got to get out.

I got to get here. Oh, my God. I see him. Hey, hey, come in here. Every time I close my eyes, I just see the darkness. Yeah. I see the darkness. Oh, I just did it.

As soon as I saw that, I was like, ah, he andante family. That makes me think of all the time. Salinas me a other day. Caliente, control. I used to watch all of those shows. But so this is what I'll say I enjoy the conversation

about how much of a comic book show Penguin has to be and how reserved and contained it needs to be. I think the show is more than any other show of comic book nature is walking that line. Two things I think. Number one,

I think the show is probably setting itself up to give you a more comic-booky version of Batman in the Batman. You think? Yeah. By the end of the Batman, I've gone back and re-watch the movie. Well, he's taking shotgun shells to the chest, man.

Like, that's not, that's pretty comic-booky. It's a very comic-booky movie when you look at it that way. But at the end of it, by the time he takes out all of those guys and all of that stuff, and he learns that he can't just be Gotham's vengeance, that he has to be Gotham's hero, the character changes. Yeah. Right. So that movie is almost akin to Batman year one or Batman begins.

Yeah. And the fact, it's a Batman that we understand, but like he doesn't have any relationship with Commissioner Gordon, like all of that stuff. By the end of it, he's more fully formed. This show is trying to recreate that. And the two questions we're always going to be, is the show good enough to justify doing it for eight episodes or nine episodes? How many is it?

Eight. Eight episodes. Do we care? And then the other one is, how does it fold into the bigger Batman universe? I can tell you right now, if the Batman would have never been made, never been made,

and they would have come out with this Penguin show, I'd be as high all over this Penguin show as I am right now. I think it's just fantastic storytelling. Oh, yeah. Unbelievable, unbelievable writing and like A plus actor performance. I think the Colin Farrell performance would have come even more out of nowhere, if we suddenly got him just doing this off the jump?

My hot take is I think we flipped. I think you've come to like the Batman and that world that Bat Rees created more through this show. I think I'm a little bit out on the Matt Roos Batman. Interesting. Because of this show? No, not because of this show. Because I'm like, I realized because I was going back to the Nolan films,

I don't really like this Gotham as much as I like other Gothams. And you know, really about that? I was talking to Joe about this, the lore queen. And she actually has the opposite opinion. I'm interested to hear this because she said that this was the first time in Batman that she made an observation that was pretty interesting. She said, this is the first time in Batman that Gotham felt like Gotham to her. She's like, Tim Burton's Gotham is obviously very much mostly on a soundstage.

Yeah. It's just like how. But aesthetically, I think that's probably the most true, like not realistically, but the Burton Gotham is very much like comic. It's a vibe for sure. More than like a character, though. But it's also pushed through his artistic aesthetic. Yes. Right?

And so these are her opinions, by the way. And then she goes, Nolan's Gotham is like just Chicago. It's Chicago. It's just Chicago. No, that's why. That's actually why I like it more. Okay, word up.

Because that's almost what makes it scarier, where it's like when Heath Ledger pops out and he's just terrorizing Chicago, I'm like, oh, that is actually what got, like, that actually is what it would kind of feel like for being like, damn, there's this fucking murderous clown out here. That's what I was doing. That's what King Vaughn was out there doing, just terrorizing God things like that. Again, we can't go back to this well, but like, what is the Joker and King Vaughn?

I just, What's going on with Chalda? This is getting dark, bro. We can't do that, though, because I got to go out there, bro. And I don't. You got to say, hey, hey, hey, you say my nigger. Hey, hey, you say my nigga, the Joker? You lacking?

No, I can't take you the whole city. You like it. Because I'll be out, because I'll go outside. I can't just say shit and not be outside. I'd be outside. And I don't want to have to carry that thing on me in Chicago. I got people out there, Vic, King Dave, like, look out for me.

But, um, you have to check in. Check it in again. I got checking in Chicago because of you. That's how I know I'm not popular. I never check in. No one. It depends on where you're going to go. Where do you got to go where you got to check in?

Like if I'm in So this is what I'm saying If I'm going to certain places Like we did hip hop homicides We were on O'Block Yeah We're in the west side of the south side The TV shows also called hip hop homicide

So I kind of get it Yeah so when we get there You gotta make sure Hey just let you know I'm here So if you guys want to get some Harold's chicken And stuff like that And protect me It's okay

But once again I'm from the era Where checking is not Y'all toxic era Changed everything And made it about being a bitch I'm from the era How was it toxic?

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa I think checking in culture is the toxic part. I'm from the era where you check in with somebody just to let them know, hey, I'm in your city. What's going on? What's the deal? If I show up somewhere, don't get surprised. It's not about, and I'm telling you, it's not about that.

It's like, I would go to, I'm from Baton Rouge. I will go to New Orleans. If I was going to certain parts of New Orleans, I would call the niggas that I know from there and let them know I was going to be down there. Like, it's just not. All ahead. Do you ever think, though?

now I'm just like now a bunch of people know that you're in the city you're like damn they ain't got an Oscar now you know what I'm saying it's rough Christmas is almost around the corner I mean they could try I'm just like there's nothing they're not going to get nothing but you're here first focus they can try it like but I mean if you play with me in Louisiana it's not going to end well but anyway wow I'm just being for real that's awesome if you play with me in Louisiana I got too many people around if you play with me

in Louisiana Chicago is a different situation right that's an away game He keeps me lacking. That's the way game. But if you play with me in Louisiana, Texas, you're going to get fucked up. But it, but back to the penguin. But interesting. So Gotham works for you in the original Batman.

It works for you in No one's Batman, but not for you in Reeves as Batman. It's going to sound bad because I feel like this kind of has a prestige aesthetic over it. Where I'm just like this version. And I thought about this when I watched the Batman, where I was just like, it's almost too accurate. And I know that's such a weird. Like, it's like, I don't mean that as like a back-end, back-hand a compliment.

I'm like, it's almost harder for me to take the world seriously. Where it's like, either it has to be like super-cartoony, like Tim Burton, or it has to be like Nolan basically being like, this is heat, but Batman is in it. And I think what Reeves is doing is like, I'm trying to do the most accurate depiction of Gotham. Yeah. And I think what I'm probably tripping up on is I'm just like,

this is too cartoonish to be a real city. but it's also too gritty to be fake, and it's in this kind of like middle... I kind of like that, because that's the thing that I came away with watching Matt Rees' Batman, where I'm like, this is almost a perfect mixture of the two of Nolan's Batman and Burtons,

where the stylistic choices mixed with a sense of place and setting and tangential cities of Gotham can be, almost make a perfect blend of those two, fantastical things. Probably leaning a bit more towards Nolan, if I were to tip the needle a little bit more, but

I've liked both of these. I think that the idea that we can enrich Reeves' world with a show like this really is something that I value because at the end of this, I kind of feel like I don't really know what comes of this. I don't know if we're going to be seen, like, I caught myself in

this at the end of this episode being like, does Oz survive this? Oh, he does. I mean, he has to. So could he? I think so. Let's come back to something real quick. So real quick, Jomey, I want to come to you for something. So we got three characters in this show that the show is revolving around right now.

Oz, Vic Sophia. Where do you feel like in this episode each different character is? I feel like Oz, I think Oz and Vic are tied, like, together now, right? Because Vic had the opportunity to dip, but their connection is there. I don't want to say, yeah. He is his now, he's now his. He got his mom out of trouble. student, right?

Like their bond has become strong. When he was like, the bliss is all gone. He's got the two things. He's like, yo, you got to get my mom out of here. He's like, I want to help. He's like, no, this is more important. Getting my mom out is more important than any of this stuff. And I trust you to make it happen.

Right. And then when they get there, he's like, you did good kid. You know, that means something. Sophia, on the other hand, is on a war path. Right. But she understands that I can't really do this alone. You know, I kind of did kill all the people who have all the connections. So I need to make a beggar one.

And what's the biggest fish that she can land other than Salvatore Moroni, who Penguin just lit his son and wife on fire. Just trying to take out. Right. And tried to kill. Right. So this now, like I said, the beginning sets up like two forces of folks that I think is just, it's going to be massive.

How does this while you get out of prison? It was my question. It walked out. I was like, I was like, all right, man. What, what, like, you got to think about it at any time? Remember, like, they're having, like,

open mob dealings in the, in the prison. Yeah. Right? During visiting hours. Yeah, like, it's Arkham. It's not, he's not, no, this is an Arkham. But I'm saying it's, it's probably Blackgate.

But it's like, these are, these are the rules of Gotham. Yeah. Yeah, there are really many. Like, you get out. I'm like, this mom just got shanked and he just walked out of prison. I was like, hey, Lurter had a good day. We're walking out. But I say that because I think that was the important.

part of this episode is that everybody's character is now solidified. Yes. Penguin is not going to become, he can't, we thought that he was going to, I thought wrongly, I'm going to speak for myself, that he was going to be able to connive his way into being Gotham's number one guy. That's not what the show is about. The show isn't about him being Gotham's number one guy. The show is actually seemingly about what forces him to be an underworld, underground

criminal guy, right? And he's, he's thriving on being on the back. He loves being kind of up against the ropes at every turn. Yeah. Because he kind of can't help himself. Every time where he tries to think that he could really patch things up with Sophia. I don't even think he's that he likes it. Is that just that's like he's just not, it's, he doesn't like it.

That's just where he ends up. But he keeps, but that's the thing, though. Like, if this were about being the top guy, he would operate out of a sense of like reinforcing security around him. He would want to patch things up with Sophia. He would want to try to find, but he can't. But he can't. It's too much.

He can't help himself. Right. He played too many different hands. Yeah. And so, I mean, he essentially makes his move, right? Mm-hmm. He tries to kill Moroni and his entire family. He tries to do exactly what she did.

Worked out for him. Worked out for her. It didn't work out for him. Yeah. So now he's underground and he's going to build something new, which will probably be a little bit more comic bookie. And the Moronis in Giagantes will exist as enemies of him, blah, blah, blah.

And now we see that she, She is full-on comic book crime boss. But I do think that her turn worked. If you believe an episode was the one with before this one, six. Yes. Her, her, her, no, her flashback episode. Yeah, if you believe in that episode at all, that episode was giving you the nutrition for her to turn.

It did fruit to me that she would be, I mean, none of these people make good crime bosses. That's probably where I'm tripping up. I'm like, y'all muff. Like, come on. You're supposed to be the head of the family and you doing all this shit. What you mean? I mean, Johnny Vee kind of got what he deserved.

I just, it feels like even with Oz sometimes with some of his plans, they seem like comic book plans. They don't seem like mob crime boss plans. But that's the thing,

though. He's not really like the big boss, like he's a schemer for sure. But like, again, I don't feel like he's going to be the one that's like making all the big plays. He wants to find a better foothold for himself. I think he wants to be that though.

I know, but he wants to be an asset. I don't think he wants to be the campaign. The king of thing. He definitely wants to be the kingpin. He wants to be the biggest name in Gotham. But the point is he's not being turned into the biggest crime boss in Gotham. That's a different guy. He's being turned into the penguin.

Yes. So he hasn't, there's going to be at some point in this story where he embraces the penguin name. Sure. Right. And that's embracing how he has to do it. All of this stuff really when you look, when I take a step back and look at the show, it's kind of about these characters ripping apart who they thought that they had to be.

Even with like her, right? With her, she thought her family was in this particular place and the more she learned about it, the more she learned who she had to be. She literally disavows her name. Yeah. She was trying to be a falconi. She was trying to be involved in all of this stuff.

But she decides, I have to be something new. Vic, same thing. He was going about things, feeling like, He could do them this way. He had this. But deep inside, he has to be something new. Oz has to be something new. All of these people, there's something new that they have to embrace.

And it's kind of both who they are and what's being thrust upon them. She goes straight up Falcone's not my name anymore. And she looks at them and she goes in that scene, which is a great scene. A scene that's been done before. Sure, yeah. But which is a great scene. She looks at all of them and she goes, you guys can keep doing it like this. you guys can keep doing things the same way

but I'm telling you right now they use you they take advantage of you we can build a new crime family a new thing a different thing where you guys have equity in it take this blood-soaked money and your end it's literally like she asked them to take communion right

literally something with blood all over like take the body of me and this is this money and shooting him in the head that was the most that was the most like telegraph thing of the whole show

for sure I mean we just yeah like yeah like you know like you know like we mentioned it last week

like we don't know how long he has right like once she gets what she needs out of him it looks like it's pack watch for him

and I mean to her credit she did give him a shot but he was like oh Sophia let's calm down let's chill out she's like

no I'm not hearing that bang yeah you're still talking shit yeah are you still trying to control her you're a dummy yeah like um

you're done but that essentially that thing happens all the time like when you look at like uh And Scarface, y'all seen Scarface, right?

Y'all niggas like that, Steve, you ever seen Scarface? Yeah. Okay, you look at me funny? He's making sure. Tony comes in, he kills the cop right in front of everybody. He realizes the cop is useless because he's never going to be able to use the cop. And then he looks at your boy and he offers him a job. He's like, hey, you want a job?

He's like, I'm building something a little bit new, a little bit different. Frank has to die. Poli's guy has to die. all of the old people, they have to go. They took their shot, they lost, I'm building something new, you want in? It's literally the same scene. Yeah.

It's like legitimately, it's the same scene. And Nino does it in New Jack City to a degree. It's when these people go, I'm the new different fucking thing. Like, now what it is, but we're seeing that happen with a bunch of different characters in this show. I'm wondering why we haven't seen

as much from the police in this show as what I thought we were. Well, it's funny enough. this is like the first time they show up really yeah a raspy captain yeah man captain d he was in there yeah that my fucking needs some coughs here bro what the fuck was he on i was like he's not talking i was like give me the room boss

i felt i thought he had one of them i felt really bad if that's really his voice guys don't know i don't want to make part of him but i thought he had one of them little things like my uncle you ever seen my uncle had one of them racheloretum things the tracheotomy like voice box yeah he had a voice box and whenever we was kids we didn't know the difference because when we were kids, we didn't know that, you know, he had had cancer in his shit,

which is why he had that. So we would just try to get him to talk because the shit sounded cool. Oh, my. I mean, we would just try to get him to, we would be like, yeah, Uncle Mike, like, like, what you, like, watch you out watching.

And we would be like, what y'all watching? We go, what y'all watching? That's so mean. That's so mean. We didn't know. It sounded like he, It sounded like he was from computer love. Y'all never heard that.

He sounded like that shit. And so we would try to get him to say all the different types of shit. Okay, first of all, this is also a fan is old because computer love with Zapp and Roger. That's an old. Computer love is I don't think is Zapp and Roger. Is that Zapp and Roger? Yeah. Is it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like all of them joints, we would try to get them to like say stuff like that. And he would say it too. T-pain before T-Pain. Yeah, T-Pain before T-Pen. But we didn't realize that it was because he had the little thing. Yeah. So I thought that guy maybe had one of those things.

All right. So if we're talking about children, demonic children, I have to say, if I was the niece and I was being walked away to go to a child home, I would have turned around. I would have turned around and be like, hey, yo, let me tell you. She did that shit. She was acting real weird at dinner. I ain't going to know. Everybody. I'm going to put all the figures.

I'm fucking snitch. Think about the niece, bro. The niece was living in a big. big ass fucking house. Yep. Chilling, getting ice cream sundaes, whenever she wanted to ruin that.

She fucked. And you're going to look at her longingly when she's going away. Like, what's wrong with you? She's going to end up in the bad family. Yep. That's all the orphans go. That's what all the orphans is.

You're orphaned at Gotham? I'm not going to lie. I'd be pissed if fucking emo Robert Pattinson is fucking my caregiver now. Yeah, that's not. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, damn.

He's not a good dad. Nah, it's got to he's got to fuck up Robin, bro. He's not a good dad. bro. No. Because he's not even a good son. I go back to that,

I go back to that Alphoran. He needed, he needed, I go back to that Alphosene, bro. I can't go back to that Alphosin, bro. He's not a good dad, right? He's not a good dad, right? He's not a good dad, right? As funny as it is, it's a really good indictment of that character

where you're just like, he's so selfish and such a fucking child. He is. He has like a bitch. But it's like, it's funny, but like, it's very true that, like, that's how that Bruce would act. Like, just like, all that he sees is that he lied to him. And, like, that's so petulant. Grow up.

I thought the mom was dead in this episode. I don't know why I thought she was going to get killed because the post is everywhere. I did. When Vic walked into the house, I thought the mom was dead. How are we feeling about the mom stuff in the show, checking back in with mom in this episode? You don't like it? I think actually what I did like about the reveal of just like, Oz has had brothers and something obviously terrible happened.

I felt all of that worked. Sometimes I do feel like the mom character is a little tropey. Like, I know. Like, I know this classic mob shit. There's always the Italian mom. She was like, damn, we finally on. We finally go and get it. Like, but I don't know.

There's something about the mom shit. Jomi, does the mom character work for you? Yeah. You know, like I just feel like it's something to, like, firmly ground Oz. Yeah. Right? Because nothing else matters. He'll throw, literally throw anything in everybody under the bus for him to make it out,

except for his mom. And I think now Vic. Right. Right. And so now he has these two. people who can't, under no circumstances, can get hurt. That's where the game ends, right? And I think going forward, that's what it's going to have to do.

You want to push Oz all the way into the back of a corner, put his mom, put Vic in trouble, and let's see how he gets out of that. But you want to know what a woman character who's kind of in a similar role to Oz's mom that I thought did work. Oz's like main lady. Like, I was just like, oh, I like, when she started freak, she's like, Oz, come on, bro. We made a promise. Don't fuck up my life.

I was just like, damn. He started throwing stuff. Yeah. And she was like, he was crashing out, he was crashing out, he was crashing out crazy. I don't know what Oz is thinking

that he feel like a black woman going to live in the sewer with him. Like, like, Oz, Oz is, everything I do for you. Oz is fucking tripping. He didn't ask already

too much for her. Yeah. You can't bring the hostage. The hostage to your old lady's house. Yeah. What the hell are you talking about? She's going to go down there like, come with me?

Nah, man. Hey, you're doing too much. Get the fuck out of here. Also, not only all the hostages, who are having teen meetings at her crib now. Come on, bro. This is a lot of space. This is a wee work.

That is how niggas do it, though. I knew you. That is how niggas do it, though. It's like, we need the space. Like, hey, bro, come on, man. We're going over to her house to bag up. I'm like, why are you backing up in her house, man? I'm supposed to back up in my house?

I'm supposed to fuck on my grave? I'm like, well, why would you back? up in her house, like, if they hit the shit, they hit her shit. Like, you don't see what I'm trying to say?

I know that that's what you mean. I know that you're saying that I'm, you're going to vile your shit up over there because they won't hit your house, they'll hit her house, but then what's going to happen to her? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I see?

Come on, play the game while we viling up over at her house. Hi, bro. Y'all niggas ain't shit. Just want to let you know. Were you friends with some niggas that was in the same profession? You were friends with some guys who was in the same profession. Yeah, y'all knew them too. They just didn't tell y'all because they know y'all snitch.

Oh, I absolutely snitch, bro. Like, Jomi is telling. Muffalo. Give me some raising canes, bro. Yeah, I'm sorry. Joe. Bro, there's never been a sure snitch. Then Jomey.

Jome, I wouldn't speed in the phone. I did, no, no, no, I didn't stitch in college. Jomi, Jomi is literally going to be like, Jomey going to be sitting in the interrogation room and the cop's not going to come like soon enough and Jomey going to be like, Oh, oh, wait. Are you ready?

I am. Chill on me, chill over, chill over, chill over. Constable? No, no. I have something to add. There was, that was my freshman year in college, it got a little hairy. But all I did was, I just pretend I do not see it.

Well, explain the story. What happened? I mean, you might want to plead the fifth on this one, Joe. No, no, it wasn't crazy league. It was 20, it was 2014. Like, so, uh, so we're out of the statute. Oh, you're dating it now. Don't put names to, put names, dates, and numbers.

No. Um, you know, there's a lot of people was, you know, some weed was going around. You know what I'm saying? Ooh. Oh, Joe. California. Jome. Jome.

It wasn't, it wasn't like, like Joe. You were backing up. It wasn't me. All I remember was, I came home from. anthropology one night. The class, not the... No, the class. Yeah, anthropology one-on-one.

And we had one of those coffee tables, you know, like, probably like that size that you can see right there. And it was maybe like nine inches full of some greenery. I was like, dang, that's great. Lankan, old enterprise over here. Kept that thing moving. He had to hit the scale and the roof. I'll be honest with y'all, man.

This explains so much. Jomey full of shit, man Jomi's whole fucking aura is because he really is on the low one of the biggest weed dealers in Southern California That's right

Jomi's whole aura of hyper-innocence Never want to get in, I don't want to get in no trouble Jomey's whole fucking thing is because he was in this cellar- What really was happening was Jomi was in that bitch shirtless With a Glock Hey

Hey, bag up Bag up Back up Wait, where'd you guys Who that? Hot the shit And you got the little Same thing on the door

Oh, I was in San Francisco Don't tell me you Had them Them little white college girls Bagging up your weed for you Nah That's where the milk thing started from

That is where the milk shit Started from You had the girls Was not involved Moving stuff around San Diego for you Can y'all see Jomey right now With a joint White girl right here

Put the joint in his mouth The white girl putting the joint This mouth he's smoking there He's like, yo If you want to get down With the Adirond organization He has a bad day He can't handle this

We got three fucking rules No phones You gotta watch Aces to Shield Dog They call me Joe Me explain it Don't make me explain to your

motherfucking ass bitch Don't make me explain to your ass Bitch. Can we talk about it? Yeah. Okay, look. Penguin is in its final stretch run. Yeah.

Real quick. How many more episodes we got to Penguin? Three. Or two or three, no, three. We got three episodes of Penguin. Okay, real quick. Just, we're now in our last act of the show. Three left.

What are we paying off? I'm going to say this. The show. if we'll be about whether or not we can buy Oz as the penguin new criminal enterprise where Sophia ends up because they are to me creating a very compelling character that I want to see more than just in this show. I want to see if she can actually live up to being sort of a novel character. And then I'm still interested in what happens to Vic.

I'm not sure if Vic survives the show. That's what I'm saying. I think Vic might be long for his world. I think if somebody goes, I think maybe Vic going. is the last thing that puts Oz into full-on umbrella monopole. That or maybe he Jesse Pinkman's

and just like absolutely fucks off and leaves the city. Well, he had a chance to do that and he didn't. I know, but like that's, that could be it. It happens all the time in movies.

You give a character now, they don't take it, and they end up dead. Anybody else got anything for the last three shows? I mean, I thought this episode was great. Anybody else got anything

for the last three shows that they think is coming through? No, I mean, again, I don't think we'll see Batman. So like at the end of the day, it's just gonna be.

It's going to be, he's not. He's not because it was funny because they show the murders on TV. And like when a crime, all of a crime family gets murdered, you kind of felt like Batman, like, at least make a call to somebody. Like, hey, man, what's going down down there? You know what I mean? But it's funny. He's not in there.

But I think, tend to agree with you, Van. I think I put my money on Vic, not being long for this world. And that might send Oz on a spiral. But I think we're really headed for the. Maroni, Gigante, Superfamily, versus Oz and his underground layer with all the criminals and all the bliss. I think that's where,

that's the matchup we're going to see at the end of the show. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways,

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Exclusions apply, visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to by Nass Energy, introducing new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava. For those that want to be fueled up and fired up with a 100-bound hour tropical tasting power, ignite your taste, start your engine, shift your flavor to high gear with new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava. Hit the street, grab a can and get after it. To Agatha, Spoiler Warning, MCU, and Agatha, let's go. We're getting ready to talk about Agatha all I love.

You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Agatha, you know why? You should start? Why? Because you said that this was... I saw your tweet. Yeah.

No, his, is, what's the thread? Your thread and you said, tell them what you said. I think this is, I said that I think this is one of the best episodes of TV that the MCU has done in a very long time. I'm interested to hear why. Because I think that this is operating on a level that is entirely interconnected, self-aware, and so incredibly, deftly handled that I was electrified by the end of this. episode. I absolutely loved it. I think the, I'm a sucker for Tommy Wymie stuff. Like, my favorite episode of the Watchman season was the Dr. Manhattan episode. Uh, I think that this is a

excellent, excellent narrative conceit to illustrate how Patty Lipone's witch experiences time and experiences connection and the level of like small catharsis that we got for her within these like 40 minutes, I think was incredible. And the small bits of what we learned about Agatha and Billy. And it's so incredibly well done that, like, the fact that these episodes were calling back to the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth episode was exceptional. I think that this is probably the MCU television machine working at the best of its abilities. I loved it.

So let's do this real quick. let's try to we haven't put any thought into this which we don't ever do but let's try to quantify that by thinking of the best single episodes of MCU

television that exists I'm probably thinking like he who remains Loki I'm thinking what was that middle episode where in Wanda Vision where it's revealed that she's doing the Hacks.

Episode, well, it's, things like four. She's doing the Hax? Episode, yeah. It ends with her, have her sitting vision down at the couch and then that Jimmy Hendricks song plays. I think that was episode four. No, that's like episode like maybe.

No, because they're in like the 70s or the 80s or 90s at that point. No, they're in the Brady Bunch era. That's the 70s. Yeah, it's the 70s. I think it was like episode four.

Well, no, because she kicks, maybe it's episode for it. It was episode for it. Whatever the fucking episode is. Falcon and the Winter Soldier when they start, when they beat up on a US agent. John Walker episode. And he kills outside.

I think those are two back-to-back episodes. There's the one where he kills the person. And then he fights. And then the next episode is when they, like, are fighting. I like the one that actually ends with him killing someone. That fight scene is fucking... It's nuts. But I think, like, as far as, like, to me, a storytelling mechanism,

I put this up there with some of the best MTV. Okay, cool. So I just, so if we put... So we will go, that episode, I know which episode of WandaVision you're talking about. And then you go, boom. Is there anything else that we're talking about? thinking about.

Season two finale of Loki, probably. Season two finale, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I loved that. Of the whole season?

Yeah. Remember everything that's happening? Everything's coming to shreds. No, it's funny. It's funny just how these shows jump out of your fucking brain when you're done watching them. Yeah. And the ones that stick with us, like, we're ready to, we're ready to remember when

U.S. agent killed that guy. We definitely remember when Wanda did that. Like, there's very, it's few and far between, but I'm going to remember this episode for sure. Okay. And I'm not, I'm, I wasn't litigating your, your, uh, your opinion. I was just basically saying, because I really enjoyed this episode too. Yes. I don't know why. I know why. It's because it was awesome. Yeah, Patty Lepone was fucking crushing. It was fantastic. I got to echo a lot of Steve's points. I really enjoyed it. Yes. It was legitimately, uh, and amazing episode of, of television. I think what they did, again, threading all that stuff throughout

all the episodes, bringing it all back. Um, the non-sequential storytelling. Like, because you're watching and you're like, yeah, what, wait, what is she talking about? What is, like, because, and then they tie it all together. They wrap it all up and tied in a nice, pretty bow. And then for her to go out like that, it's like, dang, this is, this means something. This was, to sacrifice herself for the Coven,

who she always wanted and she always loved. That was awesome. It just, it really meant something. So when the, it ends, I'm like, dang, bro, that's, that's tight, man, like this rocked. I know, I completely agree. And it's the idea that the way that this episode is structured is both like, the great trick that this episode does is not only it gives you,

it puts you in our main character's head of understanding that she has little context and then full context and then no context, scene to scene. And it's the thing that Memento did so well, where you have seen structured backwards and then a throughline narrative that gives you context for things that happen in the margins. Every time that we come back to her when she doesn't know where she's been

or what she's said prior, neither do we. And as she's kind of understanding as this timeline is going forward, we experienced like three timelines in sequence of her being a child, of her going through this like underground, like a tunnel situation and finishing the

tarot card trial. All of those things seemingly happen in sequence and all of that understanding is both in present and then not because I think one of the best things that this thing that this episode can do is give us a great metaphor

for a like Alzheimer's and getting older because she's losing her grip on this because she knows she's kind of coming to the end of her line as a witch and she's like bringing forward all of that context that she's had from being a child of learning how tarot was, learning tea leaves, understanding what her role is in the greater coven that she's a part of, and the fact that she loved being all of those things. And the kind of struggle that she's been with her whole life, because we didn't understand that like all of those things that she said out of context in episode two and episode three of like just like shouting out tarot cards for no reason or finding things that didn't make sense in the moment. but she was then at that moment experiencing all of those things in advance.

And it was just wonderful storytelling. To be that pragmatic to think, like, we're going to have a character that's kind of kooky and that we don't pay off until like the seventh episode. Right. I think it was brilliant. So everything that happens in a story, any story, whatever, all the stuff that happens doesn't matter as much as who it's happening to.

Yes. It never matters as much as who it's happening to, right? So like the thing that the episode got right was it took a fundamental element of somebody's life, something that they can't control, that they haven't been able to reconcile, the fact that she experiences her life non-sequentially, right? And they write it for her. They give her dysfunction purpose. So if you're watching that and you are looking at that character,

you automatically think, well, there's something in my life, that exists out of sequence for me or something that hasn't gone quite right for me. But there's this hope that in the end, somehow what doesn't work for you will work for you. That what seems purposeless and burdensome, should I say, for you will end up being something that you can draw strength from.

She saves the day, particularly because of something that's played her entire life. And when a story flips around and boomerangs at the end and you see her sitting down, you know that that little girl is going to be okay. Yeah. And you know that that little girl dies, a hero, which is very powerful and very moving. And it's literally the only thing that stories have to do, right? Yeah. Like, stories have to take big ideas and funnel them through, like, small characters.

Like, I can save the galaxy because I am disconnected. I can save the real world in the Matrix because I'm a misfit in the Matrix because I don't fit into something that's not real, right? And it's interesting that Agatha as a show is getting better with less Agatha. And it's not to say that she's the thing that detracts from the show.

Oh, this I take it. Okay. I don't think that you, I understand what you're saying here. So, and let me tell you why that's, when we're first enjoying the show, if I can remember as much as I can't. I'm enjoying the show at first because the show, the first couple episodes are completely organized around Catherine Hahn's comedic ability. Yeah. And her ability to carry. It's a total star vehicle for her.

If you're paying attention, we're not there anymore. No. Yeah. Like if you're paying attention now Over the course of the show Even into the big Rio thing Which I bet Thanos must be fucking kicking himself He missed out on Aubrey Plaza

I think Thanos missed out on Aubrey Plaza The great fumbler They took they took the death thing away from his story And now Aubrey that he's somewhere like What the fuck? Should have been me. In the multiverse In the multiverse he might be with Aubrey now

In the multiverse he might be with Aubrey. now. Can you imagine his secret wars fucking Josh Rowland got Aubrey Plaza on his arm? They're going to do something corny like that. Hey, they are. But guess what? We're going to think it's kind of cool. It's going to be kind of cool.

They're going to do something like that, right? Must be no. Arby Possible with a skull face. That's pretty cool. By the way, I'm not saying that she's that death, but I'm saying she's dead. She's deaf. She's deaf. She's deaf. But they really

incepted into us a story that's more compelling when you look at the narratives of the other witches. But you know what that is? That's great character writing. This is so interesting.

Give it to me. And this is something that I thought for Agatha. I think one thing the MCU shows have struggled with is the mystery element of it. Where it's like, I feel like all these shows kind of always kind of have a mystery and very rarely does the mystery surprise me in any way.

That's true. And I think that what we're kind of leading up to is that's absolutely true. Cursing Agatha's sudden but inevitable portrayal of everybody, which I think we all, we can all more or less see coming, but the idea that Agatha all along is the villain of this story. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. But it seems to be setting itself up for that. Like after Billy's episode and then now after this, we're like, she's the only thing

that's in the way of everybody. Well, I mean, you got death coming. I don't know. I get that, but that's her boo thing. Like, that's, that's everything that's, like, they're in cahoots. This show's so funny, man. Because not only is she like, like, yeah, me and death had a lot thing going on. When they were talking about when Billy and Agatha were talking, she was like, I'm your mom's ex.

Yeah. Best friend. Best friend. That was a crazy pause. I was like, you could have just said that. You know what I'm saying? They were throwing it out there for the folks. She was so toxic.

If she was clapping death's cheeks, why wouldn't she just ask death to not kill? for some. Clearly they got something. Yeah, something had to go down. Clearly, there was some. There is a level to me, though, where I'm just like, every single mystery in this show

has been exactly what I thought it was in a weird way, which sometimes I'm just like, but can you say that it was done well? Not, I don't think he could think that. So those are the, so this is, I do think he's right. The only time I think,

and the reason like we, I don't think we went crazy because Jonathan Majors was he who remains. I think we went crazy because we're just like, they keep talking about this guy, they keep talking about this guy. And then when the reveal finally happens, it kind of lives up to the myth that the show had set. And it's like with the mysteries of this show, it's just like, who's teen, who's teen? Who's teen? But we, but see, but see. Or who's death? Who's the end? And this is like, oh. So I'm going to

be honest with you about this. And I'm going to stop saying I'll be honest. But no, you won't. I have to stop. Okay. But there's a part of that. that is our fault. Yeah. Oh, no, absolutely. Which part? We are so ravenous for a lot of this stuff. Yes.

You almost have to write an original story to write a twist. Even M. Night Shyamalan. By this point, we know that there's a twist coming. And so, like, a lot of this stuff is based on comic books that we've already read. And, like, for example, Kalika didn't know who team was. did she care when he's like, I'm Billy? She was fucking flabbergasted. And the only reason was because

I might have told her. No, but she was flabbergasted. The only reason was because she was like, how? Because remember, she doesn't know anything about shards of Mephisto. Or like intertwining of souls or anything like that. She didn't know anything about that. But for us, you're right.

They've never landed a mystery in not one of these shows. Not one fucking time. We peeped Rodey. We peeped all it is. But that's because we're pouring over it. What I will say is, how can it be our fault when I actually look at Agatha as a show where I'm just like, I don't, I think they made a show that everyone can enjoy. And I think the majority of people who are watching this show are the MCU heads, like the MCU sickos, the ones who like have to watch.

I don't think this show is like a Wanda Vision where it's like Wanda Vision like was a Cray. was a crossover. Like, motherfuckers was just like, I just want to watch an MCU shot. It also was the first and they were operating at the highest high.

No, no, I get that. But what I mean more so is that it's like, so I think the shows and the creators to be fair, like Jack Schaefer and everyone are in this kind of weird place where it's like, you can make a show that's for everyone. But the kind of the target demographic,

to your point, we do know too much. So sometimes I am, they were like, oh, real's death, ain't she? And then when he's like, real death, I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, but again, like, not the biggest thing that the show's meant to give you.

Like, I feel rewarded by how well these stories are executed, especially this episode. That's the actual thing that I get. Because we know what's coming. And again, like you said, like we set ourselves up for expecting those mysteries to be revealed in some way. And then we're like, well, crowd goes mild. Now, there is, there is still, there is still, Agatha still has the, it still could surprise this. Sure.

I don't know how. I don't know what it could do. I'm being honest. I don't know what it could do the surprises. Want to match him off is alive. Like it's still, it's still. Which I love that. It's still, we know she's a lot.

It's like it's, it's still could, oh, maybe we don't. But it still could surprise us, right? If Scarletwich showed up, would you be surprised? Honestly, kind of. Because what is the Lithgow? If Mephisto showed up, would you be surprised. Yes. And, frankly, yes.

I would be surprised. No, no, no, no. Here's the thing. I wouldn't be like, why is Mepisto here? I'd be like, Wow, they finally did it. That's the thing that I've been actually waiting for. That's why I brought up, he remains.

Sometimes I'm like, yo, you know, shit or get off the pie. If you're going to bring up Mephisto in a free visit? Just bring him a fist. If Tommy popped up, would you be surprised? Yes. You would be surprised. I would think that that is consequential. Like, actually, it's not just mystery.

I think what I'm waiting for is I'm probably one of the toxic MCU fans. I'm like, motherfuckuckuckuckuckers, stop talking about Tommy. Tommy needs to show up. I'm guessing that someone got to show up. They probably will in some form. But I think, again, the breadbrumbing of, like, getting to the end of the road, no pun intended, for Billy, I think that actually is going to be fairly rewarding

because the biggest question that came out of this episode was, am I Billy or am I William? And that, but like, claiming that, like, reclaiming his identity of being both or being whomever. Like, to know that the idea that William's parents aren't really going to know what happened to their son until... I've been thinking about that, too. Yeah, like, his one of the...

They just lose, we gain a character, they lose a son. Yeah, and they don't know that. Yeah, when you realize, when you realize, like, how that character has changed in the new iteration of, of Kaplan and all of that stuff, it's not quite the same story. They're kind of melding two origins of Wiccan. Yeah. And they're, like, actual stakes, like, those people. For sure. Because I was thinking about, I was thinking about the fact that when they, when we go back to his room,

and he has all that witch stuff in his room, his room wasn't like that before they got to the car accident. And so I was thinking to myself, they didn't, because if I got into a car accident and I was 13-year-old van, and then after I got into the car accident, my room became all about witchcraft.

Are you in the body of a white child? Whatever happened. It's the same, it's the same me. Same you. But like just exactly the same thing that happened to him. No, no, no, no. But here's the thing. Are you saying that you would go into another black child?

Are you going into William Kaplan? No, it's the same shit that happened to him. So I'm riding with my parents and get into a car accident that somebody takes over my body. And then all of a sudden, you take Barry Sanders off the wall and you put up the Wizard of Oz. The witch and something like that. My dad will come in here like, hey, nigger. Who are you?

You think you, you crazy? You better do some about this shit? Hey, Crystal, we take advantage of mass 6 a.m. Like, you know what I'm saying? Well, that is actually my follow question. Would you let your child be witchy all of a sudden? Or are you like, hey, go on. You got to talk about it, right?

Like, you got to be like, hey, I know you had some brain trauma and some stuff going on. We got to go to church. I want to know what's happening with you. No, I care. I'm not saying church, but no spells in the house. Like, you ain't making spells and poach. Like, we ain't fucking with the witch. You got to do that outside.

You got to do that outside. You got to do it outside. Y'all do at your friends house. You can't make spells and potions in here. What? Maybe so on MENT Edition, he got to run a Joker. He's going to bring a Ouija board to the studio and we're going to do it for a podcast. If y'all bring it, if the Ouija board gets brought into Spotify, we'll be doing the show on Zoom.

Thank you. Thank you. If I know that y'all are calling dark energy. Cowards. Cowards. If it's crazy, you want to mess with dark spirits and we're cowards? Okay. For sure.

No. Remember this. For sure. Remember this in the future where we're going to be up there with LaCrois. And Steve's going to be. And then I'm getting poked with. Steve's going to be like, hey, guys. Oh, no, niggie.

You said you, you, I'm forcing. Hey, that shit evaporated. You said I was a coward. You said I was a coward. Hey, Moses, what's up with you, bro? Jomi got some weed for you. I won't be there. I won't be there.

We don't be the dealing weed to Moses. It's called a callback people. I will not be there. Um, all right. Agatha. Good episode. Great episode. Interesting.

Interesting in where Agatha can go. We got two more and they're going to air back to back for the finale. Yes. We got two more. So we have back to back to, oh, so there's no Agatha next week? No, there's Agatha next week, but it's two episodes. Yeah. It's a two episode and the finale.

At the same time. Yeah. So Agatha will be over before the election. What does that matter? Right. What you're saying? We got to take all the joy we can take right now. Yeah.

You're not being such a duma, bro. The Cubs won the World Series last time. Right. The talk. To us the Dodgers time. Yeah. Y'all, we're doing a special breakout for nerd news

because, unfortunately, our Black brothers and sisters and vampires are down bad. It was recently announced that Blade is no longer on the MCU calendar, okay? It has been delayed indefinitely. We're going to be breaking down the timeline of the trouble production. of the MCU project and how we feel now likely that it uh we won't see blade in the MCU anytime soon or maybe ever Steve before we kind of get into the discussion of it could you go down maybe like a brief timeline of all the fucked up shit that has led us to this moment with blade okay so here is the timeline so in july of 2019 my herschel ali is announced to star in the upcoming

marvel film blade at san diego conal con con he puts on the hat with kevin feigy everybody debut's the logo. July 2019. February 2021, we go forward. Hollywood Reporter reports that the studio spent more than six months meeting with writers consulting with Mahat Hirshila Ali and then choosing Osay Kufour, a veteran playwright for the project. Now we go to July 2021. Basam Tarik is signed on to direct the movie. November 5th, 2021. Mahershala Ali makes his first appearance as a post-credits cameo in The Eternals. I forgot that. Are you sure you ready for that?

Yep, yeah. Yeah. September 22, Tariq leaves the project shortly, very shortly, before the scheduled shooting in November of that year. Marvel says that his departure was due to, quote, continued shifts in the production schedule. However, rumors suggest otherwise that it was creative differences, the whole nine.

November 2020, Jan Demage quickly signs on as a director shortly after Tariq departs. Also at this time, Michael Starbury is brought, brought on to write a new script. April 20203. Mia Goth is cast, rumored to play the villain, and then the film also gets a new writer in Nick Pazolado. November 20203, Variety publishes an article detailing

a variety of problems that Marvel Studio is facing. Among them, issues with Blade's production. The article also mentioned that Michael Green had been hired to start from scratch again with another script for the film. June 2024, the movie gets yet another new writer in Eric Pearson. he's now the fifth writer attached to the project. July of 2024. Deadpool and Wolverine premieres

making a joke at the film's production woes saying that Wesley Snipes is only going to be the only blade and it makes a cameo saying, it makes a cameo including Wesley Snipes played. October 2024, the film's release is delayed

indefinitely. All right. So I guess the main question is right now, I'm assuming nobody's surprised about this. No. No, not at this point. There was no world. This movie was coming out next year.

Right. So what, if anything, does this mean? Number one, does Blade have a place in the MCU? The original Blade movie for as important as really groundbreaking and as fundamental to comic book films, the new era of comic book films as it is, it sometimes doesn't seem like that Blade or Blade that we know can even exist. in this MCU, and it doesn't seem like they had a clear blueprint blueprint blueprint as to how to bring him in.

I mean, again, we talked about this for how many years now. You just make John Wick with vampires. We make an action, vampire movie. It can't be that hard. I can't do that. Why not? No, no, they can.

Like, artistically they can. I don't think that they, I don't think that they're in a place of power or belief that they're just like, we can step out on a limb and we can make a movie that's different from kind of the cookie-cutter mold of the MCU that we know, where it's like Whedon and the Avengers really did coalesce how these characters talk and what the movies look like and how bright it is and how funny.

I mean, not really, because then you get Guardians in 2014. But Guardians is still very attached. What's the darkest that MCU has ever gone? The darkest? Yeah. They don't really do dark. Yeah, that's not. Maybe you could say...

Werewolf by night? Wherewolf by night? Yeah, that could be it. by night is dark. There was a shit ton of blood and gore in Deadpool versus Wolverine. That's your first R-rated situation. But that's a bit of a new precedent. It's a new precedent.

Also, it's not as dark or bloody as the previous Deadpool's. Well, but what I'm saying is, though, the fact that the MCU is right now a little bit more daring than it's ever been. Yes. They've taken some of the guardrails off. Yeah. The MC used to be, MC used to be afraid to do same-sex couples in these,

in these situations. Yeah, but where is that experimentation happening? I think that experimentation is happening on the margins, where it's like it's happening on Disney Plus shows at a time. No, the Blue Wolverine has a ton of violence in it. People getting cut up and all of that stuff. The only thing, I get what you're, I'm not disagreeing

with what you're saying. I think a natural progression from Faire that's a little bit more aggressive could have been this Blade movie. Yes, I agree. But I still don't know if totally they knew how to do it. To your point, I don't think, I think they're scared. I think that there's also, I'm kind of looking at this,

at least seeing this whole timeline played out when I was writing this. I'm like, oh, as this timeline comes, like July 2019, they're still operating on the highest highs they've ever been at. Like, this was like just before end game, Infinity War, stuff like that. Obviously, they would want to come out from a place of strength to say that Blade was coming. along with a litany of other projects. And then as phase four keeps coming back, you see the grander picture of the MCU

kind of wanting to scale back because this is where a couple of Ls start to happen for the MCU. Budgets get higher, box office draws get lower. But to his point, not to cut you off. Sure. Not to cut your wisdom, as we say,

in the community. But that is the thing with a Blade movie that's frustrating in a lot of the people that I've talked to. to. A lot of people that I've talked to in the town, black screenwriters, some that have been in and around this picture, is you don't need $150 million.

Exactly. You could do this 100 mil. You got 25. You could do it. You could kill the motherfucker for 60 if you had the right talent. Exactly. And just do, you don't need. Molfo did the brutalist for how much?

But what I'm saying is with this one, you have a guy up against even the controversial Bold de Mayo said, just give me the raid with vampires. The question is not whether or not you have the money. The question is whether or not you have the nuts. And that's my actual thing that I see through the tea leaves here

where they're like, Marvel actually doesn't really have a grip on the steering wheel for a lot more than we might have thought because to mess up something, to not get something as right as getting a blade movie across the finish line, they might not have the sauce. The more I think about it is kind of embarrassing. It's like really embarrassing because, again, how it is it to make the, raid with vampires. How hard is it to make an action movie with vampires?

Which, not to say making movies is hard. Getting all of these things done is a... Can I be honest, though? If we just look at the last couple years, we say this about a lot of shit, how hard is it to get a Moonnight show? I'm like, this... Like, he just needs to punch motherfuck. It's like, same thing with She-Hulk. How hard is it to have a show where it's just

like, that's a TV show, fucking Allie... And so they clearly have been overthinking this. They're doing too much. They're doing way too much. Why? But if you have Blade, think about some things that happen around this. Blade comes into, at what point was Blade made a member of the Avengers? Somebody looked this up. Blade was

made a member of the Avengers in the comic was, right? Yes. Like when he had a whole event this year. Right. This is because they were setting some background to make Blade a bigger thing in the actual MCU, right?

If they can't figure out how to do that, sometimes it feels like if they can't figure out how to stick you in an Avengers movie, and make you have some utility there that they don't want to do your story. Wait, can I, but can I ask this? Do you think it's also something where because Chadwick is no longer with us, rest in peace, and the Black Panther films had this, like, they were a moment, culturally, all of these things?

Do you think that they were overthinking Blade where they're like, we have to get this right? And I'm in a way where I'm like, actually, I think if they did a Blade movie, and it was like, it was an 80%, like not even want to. It was just like an 80% like good. I think black people be like, hey shit, yeah, we had a fucking good time. It don't got to be a 10 out of 10,000. So this is the important question. You have a Herschelah Ali, who at that point was, I mean, he's still a, he's gigantic.

But at that point, it was like, geez, it was crazy. Was he fresh off the Green Book Oscar, I believe? Like, he's the man. I bet you love that. He's like, like, he's the man, right? He's the man. Yeah. So he's getting a little older now.

He's getting into his 50s to where maybe you don't have as much of a future with the character. as you thought you would have, right? That's number one. But that's also because you took too long. There's the pandemic in there. There's a whole bunch of things that are happening. The second thing is, even though we're talking about, like, how easy it is to execute the movie,

there's one thing that makes the movie a little bit more difficult. One thing is the old movies. Yeah. Is that if you make a Blade movie, you have to make a Blade movie, because we're not talking about redoing Blade, and Blade was made in, like, 19, We're talking about like the same thing with kind of Batman

to where when you make a new Batman you have to either make it different or you have to make it better. Right? Because Nolan just fucking did Batman. Like they just, and that was one of the best we ever seen. And this is the first time actually in the MCU proper where I feel like they've had to do this on the scale.

Some people would be like Spider-Man, but I'm like, Spider-Man is a character where it was like, motherfuckers are going to see Spider-Man. Like, you can have a bad Spider-Man movie and in a couple years we're going to come back. With Blade, they're probably thinking, If those movies are so beloved, especially by black audiences, if we fuck it up, do we fuck up so much of shit?

Well, think about what they did with Spider-Man, though. And we've talked about this before. I don't want to go deep into it. But what they essentially did with Spider-Man is to get Spider-Man into the MCU, they had to make him Iron Man Jr. Yeah. And they had to make him fit into that to take one of the biggest solo characters. I'm not saying that they ruined Spider-Man. What I'm saying is they did something with Spider-Man

that you just cannot do with Blade Because Blade doesn't play as well with others As Spider-Man does I mean you could like do Midnight Suns And then do Blathing. You could do Midnight Suns. You sure can do Mid-Night Suns. Sucks.

We need to stop acting as shit cool. Fuck adding. Here's the thing. Man, Iron Man's not overcomplicating. Here's the thing. The MCU needs to get to a point where it's okay if the Blade movies are just Blade movies.

I don't need to actually see Blade in the Avengers for him to be cool. I actually think he's cooler, him being off in a corner. I think there's other like X-Men characters, whatever I'm like, every X-Men character don't got to pop up to be adventures.

Everyone don't got to be Irish. And I think that that's kind of what we were losing in the grandest scheme of phase four because we had all of these threads that were just thrown up in the air and never capitalized on. And we don't think that, like, I don't know if any of those

are going to be caught in the next seeming phase or anything leading up to Doomsday or Fantas of Four or whatever. You guys remember when Airstom? came to Earth and just took people away and there was a big guy. Nobody cares. It never happened. Last question.

At the last question. Adam and Tim thing is good. Last question before we get out of here, the Adam and Tim thing is good. Does Blade have a future in the MTCU? Are we going to look up six months from now? It's indefinitely on hold. Are we going to look up six months from now

and it's going to be Trevante Rose. It's Blade. It's going to be. I think they step away from this for a while. Aaron Pierre's Blaine. Aaron Pierre's Blaine. Does Blade have a future in the MCU? I do not think that are her.

Herschelah Ali has a future as Blade. No, I do not think so. But will we see Blade in the MCU ever? Yes. Yeah. Just not soon. Well, not another Blade because we already saw Blay in the MCU. It's only going to be one Blamey.

We saw Wesley Snipes is playing the NCAA. Why can't, like, will we see, will we see, does Blade the character have a future in the MCU beyond? Yeah. Yes. I think so. Because here's the thing, we're getting to the point where it's like, Blade is, what, if there's tears, if there's like S-A, he's in that A to B. Yeah. There's not that many heroes that the.

MCU has that have the Cache of Blade. Blade's a A tier, B tier character? In the... I think as far as a box office draw, yes? Box office draw, yeah, not an S? Yeah, I wasn't outside. That's what? He wouldn't be? Well, he's a... I mean, Niggas no Blade. Yeah, but like, where would you put him?

Wait, wait, wait, hold on. You got like 2024? So, Jomi, we talked about it on a different podcast, your rap, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your rap takes. So you like M&M, but you hate Blade. This is crazy. I'm not saying I hate Blade out. That's all you guys need to know about that. I'm saying in, in 2024.

Blade is a big deal. Blade's a fucking big deal, Joe, Jamie. Blaze is a big deal. Blaze is a big deal. Blades a big deal. Nickers love Blade, bro. Yeah, Blaze is a big deal. He was almost the biggest part of the devil fucking Wolverine, bro.

All right, we're out. We're out of here. We'll see what happens in the future, but I will say this before we got out of here. Marvel needs to stop the study steps. Yeah. The pump faking, this is one of the biggest pump fakes in Marvel history. you can't pump fake with this type of character. Like when you promise people something,

execute the movie, get it together, and get it on the fucking screen. Tell me that Michael B. Jordan, vampire movie going to come out. It's going to do... Oh, that's going to be terrible things for this late discourse. And they can be like, A, Ron Cougar, come save us.

Please. For many, please. All right. We out. That is enough. Midnight Boys. That's a wrap. Turning on Friday for a new episode of House of R.

Tomorrow, House of R will have their Agatha Deep die for you. Also tomorrow, the Midnight Boys will give you their instant reactions to Venom the last dance. Venom. Venom. I put that Venom shit on. Me and Jome was riding to the

Venom. Me and Jome was riding to the screen in. And I put that Vennem song on for Jome. Jomey said it's the first full M&M song he's ever listened to it. You know that's not true. He said it's not true. I know he was up in them dorm rooms

with them white women listening to fucking bro, man. Before college, bro, man. I was live. locked in M&M. I like Marshall Mathers' LP 2. It's a classic. Say that right now, 2. The second one. Yeah, 2 ain't no classic.

I just say it was a classic. 2 is a classic. Not too, not a classic. The first one, I'm going to be honest with you, bro, you're a white man's nigga. I like it. To say that, 2 is a classic, there's no fucking way you like that word.

There's no way you're laughing at this. You don't believe this. Jomi, there's no. That was seven years ago. There's no way he was never beating the milk allegations, bro. He was like 15. I was 17. I was trying to help you up.

That's worse. There's no way you like that record, bro. I did. I really did. I really did. Ouch. Was it Wicked Waze was on there? I stopped that for recovery.

Wicked waves was kind of hard, though. Did you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? M&M goes. After that it was over. Slim. Okay.

Then. M&M show? Okay. The first one, Eminem Show is okay. Relat. I like Relapse. Okay. Eminem show is okay.

Curtin' call? Okay. Hold on. It's not Marshall. It's not Marshall Mathers, Slim, then Eminem show. It's, it's, it's, it's Marshall Maddys first. Slim Shady, Marshall, Eminem show, and after that, it's tough. It's tough.

That means evil, maybe. D12 album, maybe. Once you get to on-court, it's rough. You didn't like recovery. Hell no. I didn't like recovery either, but. Bally's evil I do like. I feel like he got like, maybe, I mean, he had that one song

Rihanna off of recovery. That was everywhere. I'm not saying it was he. That's the era of Eminem that started to suck. Really? The minute his hair's back and his black, he's in the era. The second you get rid of the bleach. It's not,

and Eminem is cold. I'm not, I'm just saying we changed. We got to the point. He's got a Simpsons level legacy. What's the best? Everything good is in the front quarter. What's the best Eminem record ever?

Best Eminem record? Not the best features. Oh, I know. Not the best features. I'm going to kill you. That's the best one. That's the best one. That's the best one.

That's the best one. A serial killer had murder material in the cereal box on top of your stereo. Here we go again. I'm out of my medicine. I'm on my mind and I'm one. That's the best one. That's the best record. That's just cold.

That's what you really couldn't tell. I was mad. I'm like Eminemps. I feel you. Fuck with me. I've been through hell. Except the hell. I'm trying to develop these pieces of devil and selling.

I ain't even rap, I rap, but I rap on acid. That nigga was cold. Actually, you want to know with the apex. I loved them. He was my favorite rap for a long time. Eight Mile. Lose Yourself was the apex of just like,

what was rapping about his mom's spaghetti? I'm like, it's never going to get back. Hey, lose yourself piss me off. I'll tell you why. Why? Because that's one song that a black rapper should have thought of. I'm sorry.

Like, lose yourself just that about that type of deal before you about to go battle. And like that, that is a, that is a high level hip-hop song from conception to execution. But I can't listen to it anymore. It's a lot.

Last thing before we go. I'm back. I'm back. Is the end of eight mile, in retrospect, kind of fucked up? Because he beats Papa Doc by being like, oh, your parents love you. I'm trying to get on Anthony Mackey good sign. Wait. This is the apology to her. Bro, you don't remember.

You don't remember this? His real name is Clarence. His real name's Clarence. Wait, that who was his black best friend? Was that Macai Fire? That was McCall. Oh, my God. Talk Anthony Mackey.

Jesus Christ. Also next week, we'll have footmash, Riggerverse recommends, and Mitt Vibber will soon be upon us. Our producers are Steve, the architect Alman. Jonathan, what did I call him? Jonathan, Captain Black, Kerma. Alea, O'Brien, Zanaris,

real Neil Francisco. helping us out today. Jomi, the Explaner Adelron on socials, hashtag pushing weight Jomi Gibbs. You like that one? Pushing weight Jome Gives is crazy.

Additional production from our junior Romka Pau, who is not here right now, but shout out to Neil for sitting there with us. Chuck takes out. Midnight Boys is a wrap. Shout out to all the winners and losers. I think I'm Big Meach. I also think I'm Jomey Hoover.

Let the record show I beat Charles and Cornholm. Just let the record show. Everybody beat Charles and Cornhole. He's a terrible. Everybody beat Charles and Coral. I got to say something about the Cornhole thing, okay? So you beat Charles at Cornhole. You cornhole the shit out of Charles.

Oh, my God. So wait, no, man. Come on, bro. Can we be mature, please? I'm trying to. But this is the thing. I think that the game should be called, like, when I first learned the game, it was called Bags.

That's what I know. Bags? Bags in Midwest. The game is called Bags. Much better called bags. And there was a shift. You bagged him? There was a shift because, like, it was called bags when I learned about it.

Right. It was a game. It's a very amazing game. It's a fun game. I had never heard of it from Louisiana, right? I had never heard of it. But I get out here and some of my roommates or stuff are from other places. Hey, let's play bags.

We would be fucking playing the game. Everybody would be trying to drink this or something. Like, hey, I'm trying to fucking win. Then the Cornhole thing came in. I don't like it. Which is the name is a completely different thing. I thought Cornhole was the OG name. It could be.

It probably is. Look it up, Steve. It could be. But the reality is that, like, this is another generational thing. In the 90s, the term cornhole meant something else. I mean, yes. Yeah. So when you say that you guys were playing cornhole, it's just like, it's funny.

It's funny. I thought we were a sex positive podcast. We are. Okay. All right. And I would celebrate. First of all, we have several names for this game. No is Cornhole.

Cornhole, also known as sack toss, bags, beanbag toss, dummy boards, dog house There's no way. No, this one's crazy. Dad hole. Dad hole. Oh, no. This is on Wikipedia.com.

No, bro. Beans. Bean bag. Bean in the hole. Ramps. Bean in the hole. See, they got way worse names for this.

This type of shit makes you feel like you shouldn't be playing. Because there was some white boys that's just trying to get a joke on over there. And that nigga playing dad in the hole. No, shut. This is a, lengthy article about about cornhole.