The Ringer-Verse - Is ‘The Super Mario Galaxy Movie’ More Than a Moneymaker? | Button Mash

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Ben and Charles Pulliam-Moore of The Verge hop in the warp pipe to discuss the latest Mario movie: how the sequel compares to its predecessor, how it does and doesn’t adapt the ‘Galaxy’ games, the divide between critical reaction and popular appeal, Nintendo’s cinematic ambitions and the prospect of an NCU, how the movie connects to the Switch 2’s lineup, and a few observations (in a special spoiler section of the episode) about specific cameos and reveals. Intro (0:00)First thoughts on ‘The Super Mario Galaxy Movie’ (2:45)NCU potential (27:20)‘Super Mario Galaxy Movie’ spoilers and observations (59:06)Outro (1:18:53) Host: Ben LindberghGuest: Charles Pulliam-MooreProducer: Devon RenaldoAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everyone, it's Amy Polar, and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang. In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give me some advice. Just be yourself, and the guests will come. Don't be the celebrity that this is their like six things they're doing. I love two crime and cooking podcasts. Is there any way you could combine the two? Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast. So, join me for Good Hang.

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active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. And welcome into the Ringerverse, your nexus feed for all things fandom. It's a me, Ben Lindberg, senior editor at The Ringer and Button Mash host, rejoined today by Charles

William Moore, who reviewed the movie for The Verge. What movie is that? Obviously, the Super Mario Galaxy movie. What other movie could it be? And I'm going to begin, I'm going to tee you up, Charles, by reading the first sentence from your bio at the verge. Charles Bollyamore is a film and TV writer for The Verge focusing on genre entertainment and how disparate fandom-specific conversations

coalesce into what we know as the discourse. Charles, would you care to do some discourse today? Oh, goodness, what am I not discoursing? I know. Let's have some fandom-specific conversations. How does that sound? So we conversed about Pokemon Pocopia on Meputonesh last month.

How's your Pocopia journey proceeding? Copia is good. I feel my relationship to the game is changing, not in terms of my intensity of my fondness for it, but it started off, I was like, we're just going to clean everything up. We're going to restore the talent. It would need it to be.

And then I was like, no, everyone needs houses. But then once you unlock all of the pre-made houses, you're like, oh, these are fine, but I should build something. And now I'm kind of in this Marie condo-ish sort of space, where I spend time with the Pokemon that I'm thinking about building a house for. And I'm like, when would you fit well? And like, what kind of house would fit well in that kind of area?

So all of this is to say is that everything is still a mess. Yeah. But my feelings about the mess have changed. Well, the thing about Pocopoea is that even if you do catch them all, the number of Pokemon who are actually actively present are, that number is limited. And so they do go away. And so you do have to focus on the Pokemon you care about. So that really boils it down to the essence of the experience.

So your Pocopia journey is evolving, I guess we can say. And today I am happy to have you back because I had a great time talking to you about Pocopia and just delayed that you're here to talk about the video game adaptation event of the year to the Super Mario Galaxy movie, which no April Foolin is out now in theaters. You can go see it. And if you're listening to this, I'm guessing you will, as will the rest of it. of the world because this movie will make a zillion dollars. So we have both seen it. As I mentioned, you have written, reviewed it, and today we will verbally review it in a way. So we'll talk a

little bit about what to expect. We'll steer clear of spoilers early on. We'll have maybe a more spoiler-specific section of this conversation a little later. And we'll talk about it in a big picture sense. What does it mean for the Nintendo Cinematic Universe? And we'll talk about just the various audiences who might enjoy this movie or enjoy it less and who it's for. And I think really the consensus so far, the critical consensus has been a little lower than it was on the first movie. And I don't disagree. And reading both of your reviews, I get the sense that you don't disagree either. But I think you're higher on the Mario movies than I am, which is good. We're getting some positivity on the podcast.

Not that I am a Mario movie, Cater. I want to make that clear. But the takeaway for me is that if you liked the first Mario movie, you will also like this movie most likely. That is correct. The same writer. It's the same directors. It's the same producers.

It's let's not mess with success because when the Super Mario Brothers movie came out, It was the third highest grossing animated movie ever $1.4 billion. It's one of the most successful streaming movies on record. This checked every box for Nintendo. Why are you guys taking this in a different direction the second time? Why not do something completely different after that's just stunning success on every level, at least financially, if not creatively. So is that the takeaway for you?

More of the same? Possibly too much more of the same? So I think too much more of the same is exactly it, right? I get into this in my review, but with both of these movies, right, there is a Herculean task trying to make a Mario movie, because to turn, you know, any one Mario game into a standalone film would kind of be a tricky proposition, right? The stories in individual games aren't always that strong,

especially for the first one, right? It is the first installment of this new iteration of Mario. You've got to get Mario, Luigi, Peach, you know, Donkey Kong, Bowser, having them all on the screen at once as a part of a succinct and cohesive narrative that is going to be presented beautifully and keep kids attention. Right. And so the first film and the second one also is picking from a bunch of different pieces of the larger Mario franchise. And I think that that's, I think that was definitely the right way to go for the first one, right? Pick and choose from the canon to build something new that's going to be both a lot of people's first introduction to Mario.

Again, I say this all the time. There's a new kid's born every day, right? There's people who don't know Mario, so they have to get all that data. Yeah, right. It's like the XKCD comic, Today's 10,000. Things that we take for granted. Someone is learning that for the first time. Yeah, and then for older fans, right, that is sort of the more,

that it's the tricky part of picking from the canon, right? Like, how do you pick things that fans are going to love? And then how do you put them onto the screen in a way that's going to make a far satisfying film-going experience? I think the first one was definitely like, it's a me, we're all here. Like, look at how pretty it is. And if you like this, we'll do some more. and get in the box office.

That's exactly what Nintendo and Illumination did. People liked it. People liked it. They liked a lot. But with the second film, I don't want to say it's a trap that Nintendo walked into, but Mario Galaxy does have a pretty,

it's not, you know, the most robust story, but it is a stronger, it is one of the stronger stories in the franchise. And so in, you know, going from Super Mario Brothers to Super Mario Galaxy, we're already leapfrogging over a bunch of games from various consoles, but you are sort of asking the audience

to follow these characters to a point in their lives where perhaps the structure of the film could have changed a little bit, right? We know the plumbers, we know what their powers are. We know that, you know, new costumes means cool action sequences. Maybe we'll see more peach. But here with Galaxy, it's like, all right, so we're getting into Rosalina and Lumas and Bowser Jr.

And it's like, okay, all right, all right. You know, when the studios first confirmed that Galaxy was going to be the title, I think there was a lot of initial excitement because Rosalina is very much one of those fan-favored characters. I feel like part of the reason this is just like my own personal little headcanon,

I feel like part of the reason that Donkey Kong Bonanza exists and the reason that Pauline has been brought back in such a prominent way over the past, not past few games, but between Bonanza and Odyssey. I think it's Odyssey. It's because Nintendo saw how people responded to Rosalina and just how much she's, sort of immediately became a beloved character.

Mario franchise doesn't really introduce a lot of humans all that often, right? And so they were like, or humanoids. And I feel like, they're like, you know what? We can also, we can do this with Pauline and she's been here the whole time. We just haven't done anything with her. And those experiments have paid off rather successfully. All of that goodwill that sort of attached to the Galaxy game set people's expectations very high for this film.

And I think it got everyone into thinking that maybe because the game is so, Galaxy is such a different kind of Mario game than the original Mario game, different than Mario World, right? Very different than Sunshine. Perhaps the movie would also shift, and there would be narrative shifts as well. But when you sit down to watch it, it's like, oh, no, I see the formula. It's the same, it's the same. Here's a little bit of this.

Here's a little bit of that. Here's a bunch of new characters from the franchise that we haven't seen before. We've got Warped the Frog, Burdows here. And then they're really kind of swinging for the fences. Also, the pickman are here. And so is Fox McLeod. And I think that that I try not to pay attention to the trailers too, too, too, too much. But the announcement, just a few days before the press printing that Fox McLeod was going to be in the movie was my first sign of like, hmm.

There's a lot going on here, you guys. Rob the robot is also there. And when you do watch the trailers, you do get a sense of, like, there's a lot. like this is another action and just big setpiece kind of movie, just by dint of the number of disparate scenes that are in the trailer, you're like, all right, well, the film's going to have to, it's going to have to move and go to a lot of different places. And given the runtime, it means it's all going to happen very quickly.

Yes, it's dizzying almost in just how much it bombards you with. And that's just in terms of scenes, set pieces, characters, Easter eggs. It never lets up for a second. And like the first movie, it doesn't overstay its welcome. So these are roughly hour and a half-ish movies. Any longer, I think, would just be overload. I think there's nothing more magical than going into the movie theater in like

late afternoon and you come out and the sun is still up. It's like, you know what? How wonderful. Yes, that's what you want. We don't need the three-hour epic Mario movie. We don't need these Avengers and Game of Mario movies. Maybe we're building up to that. We'll talk about it.

It's funny you say that because, like, I don't know, I'm sure you you've seen, like a couple of weeks ago, everyone was making fun of this video that was made, I think, with Unreal Engine, where it was sort of like, here's what grim dark Mario would look like, right? I guess it's Beach talking to him through a headpiece or something. He goes by M. And I feel like there are a lot of people who, as much as they were quick to ridicule that video online or sort of just like, the video was making fun of a certain kind of.

Yeah, the conventions of AAA games. I do feel like, I feel like there are a lot of people who wanted some of that. Not a one-to-one translation of that kind of energy in the galaxy movie, but a little bit more of like, when are we going to see Mario's heartfelt declaration of his love for Pete? You know, after they've had a, I don't know, a diehard action sequence. And Nintendo and an illumination, I'm like, well, no, no, no, no. That's not what this is.

Yeah, he's working up to it. He's building his courage. It's going to take him a few more movies. It is kind of a postmodern Mario movie, if that's not too fancy a term for it. But like the first one, because it is pulling from so many sources, I think because it is labeled with the name of a specific game, as you were saying, people were expecting more of a direct adaptation. And there's certainly a lot of galaxy in the galaxy movie, but it is not a direct adaptation. It's pulling from all sorts of sources from the oldest to the newest. And so, yes, you're getting a lot of recognizable galaxy characters and settings and sounds.

My God, the sense memories that were triggered in me just every time we hear Aluma or we just were launching between planets or whatever it is just brings me back. And I also want to talk about just the rollout for this, right? Because Nintendo's clever. They're sort of seeding our expectations for this. Galaxy and Galaxy 2 were re-released and made available on SWIFE. which is sort of seeding this, and we can talk about how this might tie into future game releases. But it's also the first time we see Mario and Luigi in this movie,

and I'm not giving away anything. I don't think that hasn't been in trailers and marketing. But, you know, they're in an Odyssey setting. They're in Odyssey's Sand Kingdom. And then Bowser Jr. has the magic paintbrush from Mario Wonder. So it's pulling from everywhere and every when in the Mario timeline, which makes it a treat for the lifers who will pick up on all of these references. But it also does mean that it's far from sort of a self-contained story.

And it's just it has so many influences at all times. And it's just how much can we cram into this thing? You know, Games Radar, the site has a list of all of the Easter eggs in this movie. And I'd love to know how they manage this. How many times did they attend screenings? where they furiously scribbling notes, what is happening here? But it's thousands of words so long. It's just, I don't even know if it's exhaustive,

but it's things that you would have to watch the movie frame by frame to pick up on. There's just so much. It's just stuffed or overstuffed with all of these references and Easter eggs. And there are times where you get the sense that is this a movie or is it an Easter egg collection? Is it just a collection of references? Is it just meant to trigger that and stuff? that, hey, I recognize that thing, or is it actually sort of telling its own story? And it's interesting to me that Shigeru Miyamoto did an interview with Polygon about this. And they were asking him,

well, how did you come up with the concept for a sequel? And Miyamoto was sort of resisting the term or the framing of it as a sequel. He said, we never framed it as a sequel, but we framed it as the next movie. And that's kind of interesting because does it really build? on 2003 Super Mario Brothers movie in some respects, right? There are preexisting relationships here, but for the most part,

it just kind of picks up and it actually kind of highlights the fact that there's no previously on, there's no, hey, let's catch everyone up. They almost mock the idea of doing that. Yeah. And it just starts and then it's full speed ahead. And maybe that's smart

because everyone has seen that movie. Not only did everyone see it in theaters, but it's immensely successful in streaming. And everyone's familiar with this IP, these characters and these games. So why belabor at the point? You know, why has the Batman or Spider-Man origin story in the unteenths adaptation of those properties? But also sort of speaks to the fact that you don't need to know that much.

You know, you just sort of sit back and let these images wash over you. You bringing up Mee-Mono's reluctance to call this a sequel actually makes me think of something that I really did appreciate the film, but I couldn't get to in my review because it was a little in the weeds. But one of the things that I love about Super Mario Bros. 3, right, is at the end of it, it's revealed that it's all the stage play, right? Like, it's all kind of, it alludes to this idea, like, this is why these characters keep appearing in one another's lives over and over and over again.

I thought Bowser died in that game. No, he's back. It's fine, right? Like, this is just sort of, it's puppetry. And there is an elaborate sequence in the film that sort of elaborates to this. in a way. It's a scene between Bowser and Bowser Jr. And it did sort of that and the way that the film is just kind of like, and we're back, right? We're back. And also there's a dinosaur now. Here's a little bit of backstory about Yoshi. Yoshi's actually very well done in the film.

I think I think weirdly enough. Yoshi is actually like the smaller performances in the game or rather than the movie. But it is funny how self-consciously almost when he shows up, I think it's Luigi. It's just like, So there's a dinosaur now, and he's just part of the crew. And it's like, yep, he is. And it is just like an aside and a quick little montage of what was Yoshi up to this whole time? And it's like, no, I get it. I totally understand it.

That kind of energy, that's sort of, let's be, it's not being meta per se, but it is kind of sort of sort of embracing the idea that Mario narratives aren't sort of like a continuous arc that's defined by what happened in the previous game defines exactly the way that the next game. is going to play out. I like that about this movie, actually. I wish that that energy could have, like, that is something that the movie could have played with, right, a little bit more intentionally. But I think that that kind of authorial voice in the movie is something that Nintendo just wasn't particularly interested in leaning into. And I think that, to speaking personally, if that had been present in the film, it would have tickled me and it would have made me a bit more, how to put this, that would have satisfied my whole, like, are you going to take this in a slightly different? different direction? Are you going to bring a new kind of energy to this? And I think that it could have

elevated the film, but I really do think the motivation here was to make something that was going to appeal to as broad and as young an audience as possible. We were talking a little bit before, right? The easy defense is, it's a kid's movie and the response is, well, like, we should not condescend to children and children are capable of, you know, appreciating and engaging with more dynamic stories. That's true. That's true. Sometimes kids don't. I don't want that, right? And it's not as if we live in a world where, suddenly, all of the children's programming has just become so high-minded and multifaceted.

And all of the children are discoursing amongst themselves on the playground. That's just not what it is. A lot of this is very, very, very, very enthusiastic adults being invested, over-invested, what might say, in sort of reading the text of this film and the way that it performed at the box office as tea leaves to sort of like make assertations about what like Nintendo's thinking and what their future is. And I get that that's, that is the thing that a lot of people enjoy.

I do it for a living sometimes. But when it comes to, I also believe in like trying to meet a movie where it's at, right? And I don't think that the galaxy film is trying to hide the, it knows it's simple, right? It's not sort of, I don't think that the, the whiz bang, and here's another clip of it all,

is trying to hide the fact that the narrative is thin. I think it understands that attention spains are getting shorter, right? People are spending more time on TikTok and on shorts and platforms like that. And you can see it reflected in the content that people make themselves. There is a certain kind of like faster, twitchier cadence to the way, to the media that we're all sort of consuming and making. And I think the film is trying to reflect that to a certain extent. Do I think that that's an inherently great thing?

No. Right? Sometimes being people where they're at isn't the greatest thing. But I feel like I understand the logic behind it to a certain extent. And looking at the film is what I think it is. It's not, there are far, far worse films than this. I've seen, you know, I've seen, oh, it's worse than AI. And it's like, hey, guys, hey, man.

I know we are living in the era of hyperbole and engagement. But like, let's try a little bit harder than that. Yes, I know it's the buzzword, but I would not dismiss the Mario movies as slop. These are well-crafted films. I think we can both agree. Both of these films are objectively gorgeous, right? And I think that's something that really does kind of highlight the thinness of the narrative. You're looking at these truly beautiful set pieces, right?

You're looking at these action sequences, which are bonkers. And you're listening to the things that people are saying, and you're like, huh, there's a little bit of disparity here. Right? Like the energy that's coursing through this visually is not. not being matched on a narrative level. And that can be, that definitely, I know as an adult who sits through a lot of these things, yes, that can be very frustrating. It's visually impressive.

It's sonically impressive. And it's clearly made with a lot of love for and familiarity with these characters and this universe. But yes, I do long for a little more adventurousness, a little more of that kind of classic Nintendo boundary straining. and innovation. And there was a quote, Miyamoto, I think, said this to Variety back after the first movie came out. He said, we were fearful of all the failure

of past IP adaptations, where there's a license and a distance between the original creators and the creators of the films. The fans get outraged and mad because the studios didn't do justice to the original work. We really didn't want a backlash. And so that first movie felt like a movie

where the makers of the movie really didn't want a backlash. And Nintendo's been there before, of course, because they were really the first into the breach with video game adaptations with the infamous Super Mario Brothers movie in 1993. And as a time capsule, as a product of its era, that movie is strange and entertaining and how did this get made? And I thought that when they finally ventured back into these waters, which took it in probably long time, really, I thought, okay, they're going to play it safe. It's going to be more or less a pain by numbers Mario movie. They're going to establish that Mario is a cinematic property.

And then perhaps they will build on that. Maybe that will be the foothold that they establish. That's the safe space. And then, okay, maybe we can branch out of it. And that first movie just passed with flying colors, just leap to the top of the flagpole, made all the money, could not possibly have been offensive to anyone on any level, really. It's a movie made for everyone.

And so I thought, I hoped against hope, maybe they take a few risks this time. I'm not saying they completely change up the formula because the formula was immensely lucrative. But maybe in the spirit of the Galaxy Games, which as you said really did sort of overturn the Mario formula and felt so new and so boundary breaking, maybe there'd be a bit of that this time around.

And there really isn't. So you just have to kind of, accept that going in and calibrate your expectations. It's sometimes fun. It's inoffensive. It's faithful in some respects. It's fine. That is kind of the way that I feel about this. And so I know that there's a bit of a critic versus civilian popular opinion divide here. And I don't think it's so much that critics are, you know, sharpening their knives out to get the Mario movie. It's just that, you know, you have higher expectations because of the pedigree of the people involved in making these movies, because of the feeling that the Mario Games have supplied for so long.

And that reaction, you know, that always kind of gets my hackles up a little bit. Just the, it's a kid's movie. It's a show. It's a kid's show. You know, we're aware of the intended audience here. I don't think we're under any illusions. But that can be a way, I think, to dismiss many of the things we love to watch. and play and talk about here at the Ringaverse.

And, you know, there's sort of a soft bigotry of low expectations going on with the, well, if it's for kids, does that mean there are no standards? You know, if it literally does just hold their attention and gives your parents 90 minutes to go do something else while you are glued to the screen being babysat by the TV. And I say that as a dad who does that often. So believe me, I appreciate that. But is there more there possibly? And I'd like to think that there could be. Because I always just rebel against the idea that you need to turn your brain off entirely to enjoy something. Can you enjoy it with a different part of your brain?

Absolutely. Not everything needs to be some high-level, in-depth, intellectual endeavor. But if I were strapped to a fMRI machine while watching or playing something, I'd still like to have a measurable brainwave, even popcorn kind of entertainment. We like it because on some level does make us. think or care or feel or laugh? There definitely could be, but I think something that's really important to keep in mind is this is Nintendo we're talking about, right?

Like the reason that Nintendo is in the position that it's in now is because they play, they make conservative vets. That has been their MO for decades at this point. And it's something that oftentimes a company gets dinged for. Why are you putting out software that's underpowered compared to your competitors? Why is your update cycle not in sync and locks up with everyone else's, right? And in the moment, fans and commentators, it's very easy to sort of be like, well, you should be making all of these sort of big gambols that sort of wow and dazzle us with the potential of what they could become. But Nintendo has really settled into a posture that's more sort of about long-term success.

Big swings definitely can pay off, right? And again, I think this also plays into what makes this film a little bit disappointing. Galaxy was both a very big deviation from previous Mario games. and it was one of the games that really sort of got people into the concept of the Wii, right? It was really sort of firing on multiple levels to sort of show you that Nintendo was doing something very boldly different and ambitious, and it ended up being really fun. After that, we get the Wii U, right? And Nintendo's been not open about, but it's been very obvious that they, in the same way that they don't want to have cinematic backfires that sort of aggravate fans because, you know, the IP isn't being adapted the way that they want it to be. they don't want to make big gambols that blow up in their faces as a hardware manufacturer,

as a game producer, right? We've seen various instances of that caution and hesitation sort of being exhibited by the company in the past. And I think that given Nintendo, they are not new to film production, but this is a new era of them as a film production company. They are being very cautious about how they spend their money and how much of that money they're going to be able to make back. Because the Mario films, they're big, they're splashy,

they take up a lot of oxygen when they first come out. They are just one part of this new plan, you know, for this, you know, I don't know which era of Nintendo is, but they're in theme parks and video games and movies now, and they are trying to really sell themselves as a leveled up kind of lifestyle brand. And part of that growth plan is to, make sure that the next step that you move doesn't, you know, set you back too many,

you know, buy too much financially. Now, does that lend to making the most captivating films? Not necessarily, no. And coming out of the film, I can say, I can, I have all these thoughts knocking around in my head and it all sort of makes sense for like Mario, right? The one of the company's big mascots, the approach that they've taken to making these two films is not something, or rather, I very much hope it's not the direction or the kind of thinking that the company is applying to their future film plans. Because I don't think that, you know, obviously the big one that's on everyone's mind is the live action legend of Zelda movie. Yes.

I, a lot of the narrative choices that are made with the Mario movies, you can get away with because it's animation. There's a certain, there's certain kind of fiddliness that an audience is just willing to accept with, like, cartoon characters. The Zelda movie, we don't No, we still don't know a lot about it, right? So I'm loath to sort of speculate too too much. But if the story, if the film were an amalgam of multiple Zelda games, that would be tricky, right? Especially compared to Mario games. Zelda games are sort of like pretty robust, flushed out narratives from beginning to end with your primary characters, your supporting characters, or really compelling villain, you know, built-in action sequences. It's like, it doesn't have to be one-to-one translation,

but the source material is really giving you the framework for a beginning, middle, end story. So remixing is fine, but there comes a certain point where that can become an issue. And, you know, I don't necessarily know that what I'm looking for is a montage of Link through various years, where he's just running through different versions of the forest and talking to different versions of the deco tree. It's like, hey, man, this seems something as, fantastical as that world is, it seems like they are obviously going for a certain level of grounded realism that the audience is meant to respond well to. And in order to really kind of win the audience's trust that way, I think that the company really needs to lock in on a Zelda story

to tell and then tell it in a way that is, I don't want to say faithful, but sort of like it feels like it's speaking to the ethos of a specific, you know, Zelda game. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Nass Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat, and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard-fought place.

They're all jammed inside every can of Nass energy, high-performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage, and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of Nass energy and get after it. Transport your senses with Sol Dijanato's limited edition perfume mist collection. At Sifora, spritz on lush notes of rainforest orchid and crisp. sea breeze with hafresco paraizzo. Embrace a floral and fruity scent inspired by Rio's nude beach with chiqui bikini or capture

sun-kissed bliss with limonada gelada where zesty Brazilian lemonade accord meets coconut milk and golden brown sugar. Don't miss Sol de Janedo's limited edition perfume miscollection only at Sephora. Yeah, I know what you mean about the Nintendo conservatism.

The famous, the Gunpei Yoakoi philosophy, lateral thinking with withered technology. They just decided at some point we're not going to be part of this arms race to have fancier and flashier and higher powered machines. But there is really the opposite of conservatism that sometimes comes into play. Sometimes it's bold to be conservative, technologically speaking, where you say we're going to do something completely different from what our ostensible competitors are going to do. And we're going to make the we and we're going to make the switch and we're going to go portable or we're going to have touch. screens or we're going to have multiple screens. And sometimes that doesn't work. It doesn't work so

well with the virtual boy, even though that just got re-released, oddly. It didn't work so well with the Wii U, as you noted. But when it works, it works really well. And it expands the tent. And Nintendo does things that other companies don't think of or don't risk. And that's not so much the case with Switch 2. Switch 2 is a departure from that where, hey, everyone loves the Switch. What if we just make it slightly better and slightly more powerful, but more or less, it's the same concept. And so I do hope that that doesn't signal a creative conservatism because Nintendo is now billing itself as an entertainment company,

not exclusively a gaming company. And I think the emphasis is still on gaming. It's not as if gaming is an afterthought. I think if anything, Nintendo sees these movies and theme parks as a way to just get more people in that tent. We will introduce people who are not already gamers, and then they will become gamers because they've seen the Mario movies. And there's still that spark of creativity and ingenuity in a lot of the games.

So I just wish that there were a bit more of that in this movie. And it doesn't have to be Pixar. We don't have to hold up Pixar as the Bial and all. It could be DreamWorks. It could be DreamWorks. We could look to other video game adaptations, even Nintendo-related ones. I think there's more character. There's more personality in the story.

Sonic movies, for instance, in Detective Pikachu. Detective Pikachu was truly one of the best video game adaptations ever. And it's wild and unexpected, but Detective Pikachu, to me, feels like such a skunk quarks project. They're like, look, here's the guy that here's some money. We'll see. We'll see, we'll see how it goes. And it ends up being, and it is doing a lot more experimental things, right?

It's sort of like, here are all the Pokemon, but they've been redesigned to fit into a live action world and a lot of them look weird and they're not quite, what you remember. It's not a coincidence that we don't see as much merchandise of the live action Pikachu as we did a couple years ago because they're like, look, that was cute, but like, get out of the way.

Yeah. A star is here to speak and you're taking up his light. Yes. The star being on model Pikachu. Right. But I think, I think, especially right now, I look at the two Mario movies and I don't say this disparagingly, they do feel very much like

big commercials for Mario, right? It's like, here's a little bit of this, here's a little bit of that. If you like this, go find the game where it comes from. You can play it on the Nintendo Switch. We're trying to get as many of those games on that platform now so that you can just access them whatever. And I do think it makes sense. I can understand the logic to that decision for Mario, right?

He is one of their bread and butter characters. And I would not be surprised if some of the internal thinking was, The Mario movies are inoffensive for everyone, short, zippy, fun, and pretty to look at. And it's with other properties that we will try the kind of experimentation that might subsequently make its way into the Mario films, right? I brought up the Zelda film. And we will see what that is, because that's going to be another interesting data point in seeing the way that the studio is thinking about this. But I brought up Fox earlier in the Pickman. The movie gives you reasons as to why they are there.

It does not. Oh, I'd want to get into, I'm not going to get too specific about it, but the presence of so many non-Mario characters in the Mario movie obviously begs the question in a post-Marble universe. All right, all these people are going to have a came-up movie of some sort? And the only movie story game that makes any sort of sense for that would be Super Smash Brothers. Through, you know, the psychic connection that I had with myself through all points. in time. 10-year-old Charles loves that idea, right? Yeah. 35-year-old Charles is very much like,

hey now, hey now. We are two movies into this seemingly now shared universe, and, you know, teasing people at the very beginning of things is great. You know, the MCU would not be what it is, were it not for Samuel Jackson just showing up in a trench coat and talking about a team is building. but because Nintendo is so new to this kind of making this specific kind of film, I am a little trepidacious about what the future holds for fox and them. I actually do think that Glenn Powell is, he's a very good fox. Perfect fox. He's too just like he's charming and he's a rogue.

As I was coming out of the theater, I was sitting next to an older woman and her children, I think. And this woman was not familiar with Star Fox at all. And she was speaking to some of the media reps. And she was like, I love that Fox guy. They should make a game about him. He's like Han Solo. And I'm like, you know, she's not wrong. All of those things are accurate.

But a Starbucks project is saddled with all kinds of complications. It's been so long since there was a Starbucks game. Does the general public Nintendo fans know who Fox is? Yes. Does your average person on the street know who Fox MacLeod is? Maybe. maybe. Are they the kind of people

who are going to get hyped up about a Fox movie or a Fox streaming series somewhere? I'm not really sure, right? And the character's presence in the film is not necessarily indicative of the fact that that's the next step. And, you know, we're settling in for the Fox movie.

And then it's going to be the Slippy the Toad series. And then it's going to be Kirby Air Riders, which is a ride that is also a part of the cinematic universe. And then there's, you know what I mean? I don't necessarily know that that's what it's going to be. But if it was, I don't know that that would vote the best things because it feels like before any sort of major crossover is to hit the screens,

Nintendo would do well to demonstrate that it can tell other kinds of stories, right? Yeah. That was always kind of the, I think, the lost promise of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Back when I used to cover these things obsessively, the promise was always like, you've got the ReVenders movie, and that's everybody. You've got your Doctor Strange, and so it's a little magical,

a little horror focused, and you've got your Winter Soldier stuff, and that's all espionage and intrigue. And that's kind of sort of true, but as that franchise got bigger, the machine that is marble in the way that it sort of flattens its storytelling out became more and more.

You could feel it more and more on the screen, and now it all kind of has kind of, it's all been reduced from signal to just kind of flattened it in a way. And as a Nintendo fan, I want that not to happen for Nintendo's cinematic plans for the future. Yeah. And I don't get the sense necessarily when I watch these movies that they are in service of crafting some larger overarching cinematic universe.

I think that's what will happen because these movies are making an enormous amount of money and there's a demand for it. But it doesn't seem to me, they could be going further when it comes to the setup for that sort of thing. Miyamoto has cast some cold water on that, again, in that Polygon interview, he said, right off the bat, I'll say that unlike something like Super Smash Bros., I don't think you'll have a situation where all Nintendo characters would be joining. It's not as if, now he'll put Pikmin in anything because the man loves Pikmin and I'm with

him. But these characters are not necessarily banding together in service of some larger quest or arc or narrative. And that's kind of what I meant by the fact that this, it is a sequel technically, but is there a big bad? Well, there's Bowser who's just always the big bad and you can keep fighting Bowser forever. But are we building to something here? Are we thinking, oh, this is a trilogy in the making and there's going to be some grand climax? It feels more to me like you could just keep making this sort of Mario movie forever, really. And you can just keep breaking Bowser out of prison. and like Mario can team up with Peach

and they can have some adventures and they can go various places and have various cameos and then we'll do all over again in a few years. But it doesn't feel to me as if, ah, see, I'm connecting the dots. I know where this is going. This is building up to this arc

from the comics or something, right? Which is the way that we all watch comic book movies and superhero movies. There's actually a little less than of that than I think there could be. And Miyamoto and Chris Mild Andri of Illumination said as much in that interview where there isn't really someone who's kind of workshopping. What are the next 10 movies looking like? Who's going to be in this?

Who's going to be in that? You can see even in the Sonic movies, right? There's always like the next hero or the next villain is introduced in the post-credit scene. And okay, that's where we're going with this. I don't really know having watched this galaxy movie what the next Mario movie will be. It could be virtually anything. And all these characters who were introduced, you know, Fox doesn't have much to do in this movie.

He looks kind of cool. He gives Glenn Powell a chance to say some wisecracks. He does that really well. He's really just a plot device. He's a mechanism to get our characters from point A to point B because he has an R wing and he can do a barrel roll. And obviously he does. And so so much of these Mario movies is just sort of going from place to place.

and I was re-watching the original Mario movie a few days ago because I like to be prepared. Got to do my homework. Got to refresh my memory on the Mario movie. And it's very hard for me even to focus on it. You know, like I'll be like, okay, I got to really closely watch this movie so I can remember every detail.

And then suddenly my mind wanders and a few scenes passed. And we're fighting a new villain here. And we're in a different place. And it's just all sort of really frenetically passing from point A to point B, and we've got to get this thing, and then we've got to go there. And the movie's never really slowed down. No.

That's not the point. And, you know, that's what Mario games are, right? Like, they're not really about slowing down so much, especially in their original incarnation. There's a timer. You want to go as fast as possible. Point A to point B, don't die. It is. Side to side, left to right, right? And there are even sequences in these films that are very much based on Mario side-scrolling platforming

gameplay. And I quite enjoy those segments and sequences, except that they just make me want to play Mario, you know, because the magic of Mario is its interactivity. See, that's the point. That's the experience of watching cutscenes in the games or just watching someone else play Mario. You know, I've watched these movies and my fingers are just like itching, you know? I'm just like twitching. I want a game pad in my hand so I can actually play a version of this thing. And every time there is kind of an emotional moment. You know, there are relationships here. There's the father, son, Bowser, Bowser, Jr.

relationship. There's the Rosalina Peach relationship. There's the Mario Peach relationship. But none of those is really explored in any great depth. They're just sort of side quests, little colors, subtle influences. And then we're on to the next battle and we're on to the next world. And so I do wish that there were a bit more heart. Maybe heart's the wrong word.

I think the movie's heart is in the right place, you know? But there's just beyond the most banal lessons that one could insert into a movie like this, there's just nothing particularly poignant or memorable emotionally for me. See, the thing is I actually thought that the stuff with Bowser and Bowser Jr., again, not to get too heavily into spoilers, but as sort of, I don't call them emotionally a nerd, but just sort of like as emotionally smooth as these movies are. In the first film, you do have this sort of, I wouldn't even call it a streak of jealousy,

but there is some sort of like seat of tension between the brothers because of the way that their lives have turned out. You know, life has not turned out the way that they wanted, and Mario's kind of like, am I a failure? I have some difficulty to my parents. Yeah. There's some of that. And then the brothers bond at the end,

and their bond is what saves them. That was fine. I actually really appreciate it. The film sort of, it's not, it's not, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to call it a joke. But the film's like, yeah, Bowser's a bad dad. He does not see this boy very often. And that negligence is why he wants to kill everyone now.

And that's a pretty sort of easy, low-hanging fruit joke. But then the film does sort of, I was surprised that the film gives Bowser an arc that does make it seem as if there is some sort of emotional complexity going on with him that we as an audience and Mario and the rest are quick to write off, but it's actually very there. And you, the audience member, are able to sort of see the truth in it because he keeps doing it when it's just him and the kid by themselves, right? There is a sort of regret and recognition of his own role

in turning his kid into a monster that I thought was actually very kind of poignant for this kind of film, especially given that because it shines so bright in like one scene or two, you feel its absence everywhere else. And it's kind of like if this was carried throughout the film as a bit more of a stronger through line, like show us some of Bowser at boarding school, beating up other kids because his father won't return his phone calls or something.

Yeah. Those are, but again, like I just, I recognize that I would have enjoyed that film, but it is not the film that exists. Nope, it's not. No. And so, yes, we do have to judge these things based on what they are aspiring to be.

But there is also that element of lamenting, well, what they could be. While still being a kid's movie, while still being a four-quadrants success, while still appealing to everyone. But, you know, I watch a lot of kids' content because I have a kid. And some of it is obviously rewarding on multiple levels, right? And some of it really lives up to multiple rewatches and you can be a grown-up and you can enjoy it. maybe on a different level than say my daughter does, but we can both get something out of that. And I expect to watch this Mario movie with my daughter at some point,

and I imagine that she'll enjoy it. And I will enjoy her enjoying it. Yeah. But I don't know that I look forward to watching it so much as I actually do look forward to and enjoy watching some of the things that she watches. And that, I think the part that I get stuck on is that very much applies to Nintendo games.

And so I wish that that quality, because Nintendo games are for all ages, but they are delightful for all ages, equally delightful for all ages. And my daughter and I, we play Mario tennis. We play Mario Kart. I read her Mario books before bedtime, right? So we can both appreciate and love those things. And they work on multiple levels. And the movies just don't have that same sort of spark, that creative genius to them. And I think that's because the gameplay is the magic of Mario, right? And so that's when I questioned myself thinking, well, what would that look like? What am I longing for exactly here? Because Mario is designed to be amorphous and malleable and someone who can fit into every game and every genre. He's a mascot character. That's the point of Mario. And another Miyamoto quote, this was 15 years ago, he said, when we create games, the gamer really is the main character.

In that regard, it may not really matter who the main character is on screen. And so when you port that to movies, it still applies, but all you have is the screen, right? And so I think what I'm longing for, because, you know, I sort of, look, we were in an advance screening. Maybe we were in the same screening for all I know. But it was a packed theater. And yes, you had press and critics there. But you also had people who, you know, just got into this early viewing for whatever reason. and there were plenty of kids there.

And there were a lot of times when I just sort of, instead of watching the movie, I was watching people watch the movie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there were a lot of extended silences, you know, because there aren't that many laughs. There are long stretches where there aren't jokes exactly, you know. No, it's not a super joking movie.

It's not. It's not very funny. There are sight gags, of course. But, you know, there were times when even the kids weren't really crack it up and you could kind of hear a pin drop in the movie theater and then things would pick up again and, you know, people would get into it or there would be a cameo and everyone would clap and laugh and we'd do the DiCaprio pointing meme. You know, this is a movie where your arm will get tired because you'll just be doing the DeCaprio pointing meme the entire running

time, which mercifully is only 9 to something minutes. But I do wish that there were a bit more of that. And maybe it's a willingness to poke fun at itself and the conventions of the game. in the genre. In the first movie, for instance, I appreciated that Mario hates mushrooms, right? And he has to keep, like, force-feeding himself mushrooms to get the power-ups. Or, you know, Lumilies longing for death, right? The nihilistic Luma, who does appear again in this movie, but less than I would like. I just like. She's truly one of the best characters in this. Give me the Lumilie stand- just the standalone spin-off movie, right? That's just Lumilian therapy. Yeah, but that's the kind of thing

where it's just like, okay, this is a little bit irreverent, this is sort of toying with the formula or poking fun in the formula as opposed to purely porting the formula. And I wish they were just a bit more of that like Lord and Miller style Lego movie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It still appeals to all ages, but just a bit more inventiveness because smooth was the word you used and I think that's perfect because it's polished in a sense that almost repels my attention. I saw the movie a couple days ago,

and the details are already fading from my mind. It's like, okay, right, they went from this galaxy to that galaxy, and then what did they do? Eh, it doesn't really matter, right? So, yeah, just a little more stickiness, almost more rough edges, I'd like a little bit. No, I totally, I think we feel very similarly in that regard.

But again, I do think that this just speaks to the conservatism Because the fact that there are things like Lumley in the film does, it makes it obvious that internally there is an understanding that those kind of jokes are funny, right? Yes, yes. The fact that you bring a character like Lumali back says that, all right, well, you understood that people liked it, and you said, sure, let's do it again.

Yeah, we're Madcap, more meta-Qy. Why the decision to roll that back? I'm not entirely sure, right? I think that one of my, one of the things that I could have done with a little bit less with, I love seeing Ward and Berto and Rob. Love that for them. Happy belated Trans-Dade visibility.

But there's a certain math to movie making, right? It is a zero-sum game in terms of screen time, more time that you're spending with these sort of, not to flirt superfluous, but these deviations from the main plot, the less time that you have to really flesh that plot out, either with narrative substance or with jokes that, like either with jokes, like good jokes take time, right?

Like you have to build the timing in. And there's all sorts of, when you have a movie that's as dense as this, on the press circuit, all of the lead actors have been talking about the references. And it's like, yes, it is referenced the movie. But the more references you have, the fewer opportunities you have for a good old classic joke,

right, or for an inversion of a character that you're familiar with. and I think that the decision was made that those things weren't as important, which again probably won't hurt the box office for this. But if and when we do get a third Mario film, I feel like we're going to get a Donkey Kong thing first.

But if and when they do it again, Foo-we-Wed once, shame on me, foamy twice. What are we doing? Foll me thrice. All right, you guys. What are we, what's going on here? But I think, you know,

if the second is a success, that is, to my mind, That is enough data to say, all right, look, these will work, right? People will show up for these. How do we level these up? How do we sort of turn them into something that is more critically impressive and more satisfying for the adult audience that's going to be showing up into the movie theater? Is that third beat like a, hey, there's a new game and there's a movie adaptation and there's a sort of parody between them? I don't know, maybe.

but I will say the Mario Galaxy movie is a fascinating cultural object. And we're like a fascinating beat in like Nintendo's history, I think, because I think it does sort of speak to them being in a very sort of like, I'm not really sure how we're going to move forward space and how this turns out is actually going to have a big influence and determining what our next step is. Yeah. And look, if it puts some smiles on faces, it entertains some kids, it gives parents time to take a break,

it makes Nintendo a mountain of money so the company, you can keep making great games. Wonderful. Everybody wins. There's no downside. I think it's just that my appreciation for my reverence for Nintendo's creativity just makes me want more. And maybe I'm getting a bit greedy. And I understand that. But I just want these movies to be as special as the games that they're based on. And maybe that's a tall order, right? And I should just accept them for what they are and enjoy them for what they aren't to some degree. I do, and I have. And again, you know, don't put in the newspaper that I got mad about the Mario movie. I almost wish that I were mad about the Mario movie because that would meant that it provoked some strong emotion in me.

You know, it's just, it's hard for me to imagine really loving it or hating it or feeling much of anything about it. And I'm sure that many people do and I don't want to diminish their feelings. And if you really love these movies and cherish them, then I am glad. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed, I guess. Just slightly disappointed, even understanding who these are for and what they are designed to do. Do you think that these movies are for hardcore Died in the Wool, Nintendo Kids, long-time Mario lovers? Do you think that they are more made for them?

Or do you think it's more for the woman in your screening who said, hey, that's start? Fox character. They should do something with that guy. Because on the one hand, the references, obviously, which they have crammed into every frame, well, that's for the people who will recognize those references to some degree. But then also maybe this is why I want more because I am so conditioned to think of Mario as the standard bearer as the thing that's going to reinvent the form and the medium. And thus, I have higher expectations for the movie than someone who is peripherally aware of Mario and his cultural footprint

but hasn't really had that hints on experience. I think that Mario is a bit more for people like me who are familiar with Mario, but I consider myself a Mario casual. I recognize I've played quite a few Mario games and had some fun. They're not my favorite games.

Because there is a simplicity to Mario that's always kind of been like, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, you jump on the thing, you eat the thing, you throw the fireball at the thing, you save the princess. Hooray. And so, oh, now we're doing it in three dimensions. Ooh, we're cleaning up as we do it. What a concept.

That's, that's, that's, that's Mario. And I think that the film is, it's trying to, it's trying to serve a bunch of different audiences at the same time. And I think that's part of, again, that's part of the reason that it kind of, I don't want to call it lowest common denominator, but it's why it's trying to cast a broad net. It's like, hey, hardcore, diehard fans who've been playing this from the jump, you may want, the Peter Jackson treatment on this. No, we simply cannot do that. Here is a reference to a whole bunch of products that you recognize, have fun with that.

We've seen your YouTube videos. We know that you like to watch things frame by frame, and that's fun for you. So do that. Yes. Yeah, I know it's frustrating for audiences when they hear people try to craft the movie that they want to see in their mind

as opposed to accepting the movie that is actually on the screen, right? And so I fully understand. understand that. But I do, I do, so it's trying, I feel like, it's trying to serve multiple audiences. I do, I don't want to say that older fans are an afterthought. They're clearly not, because, you know, a lot of this is a nostalgia play in the studio. The studios are banking on that, you know, putting butts in seats. But I do think that ultimately, these films are meant to function as ads for games, for the older people who have the money to buy these games. And for kids,

it is just kind of meant to be cotton candy entertainment, right? It's beautiful, it's big. You touch it, and it kind of like, waltz a little bit. Yeah, yeah, melts in your mouth. But it's sweet as it goes down, and you're like, well, that was great. If you eat too much of it, you'll get cavities, right? You do need some substance, you know, and some nutrition in your diet. Hopefully that's, you know, the depth and complexity that this could become.

But in order for that to be the case, Nintendo would have to make some pretty serious decisions about like, all right, like, are we going to lock in and make a Mario story or a Mario film with more dramatic elements into it? Like, are we, are we going to get into Mario's interiority? Is that what the Luigi's Mansion? Is that if there's a Luigi's Mansion film, is it going to be about what it's like to live in the shadow of your older brother and to be scared of your own shadow all the time? Maybe. That I would watch as a longtime Luigi's Mansion lover. And that's the thing, right? Like, as a fan, I know that that's in there. Right? I know that, I know that those beats could be explored in an interesting way in a Luigi film. Is Nintendo confident to lead

with that energy? I don't confident enough to lead with that energy. I'm not entirely sure yet, right? This is the second of these big films, and maybe they're like, let's see, let's just make sure that the first one wasn't a fluke. It's not exactly something that you can prove by basically just doing the same thing a second time, but at the very least, it's given them another reference point to be like, all right, this, we, we're here, we can make, we, we're part of the billion dollar movie club. Cool. How do we get more interesting with this?

Yeah, this movie's going to go gangbusters at the box office. Watch out Hail Mary. It's time for Hail Mario. And we have been hailing Mario, but also in a qualified sense. You know, I almost wish Yoshi, love Yoshi, cute, cuddly. Also horrifies me on some level, though. And, you know, when he eggifies people, I just imagine being trapped in a Yoshi egg. It's both fascinating and terrifying

because it's like, oh, his body is just like encasing you in calcium instantaneously almost. Much like Kirby, of course, is disturbing on an existential level, right? See, Kirby's like a void. He's a sphere with a void inside of him. And I can wrap my mind around that. And you're just like, you're in the nothingness and then you pop out of it. But like Yoshi's a, that's just a dinosaur with like a whole gastrointestinal system.

Yeah, Kirby can. consume me and steal my talents and then spit me out like nothing, but at least you're not stuck in an egg. So yeah, like the body horror aspect of Yoshi, you know, give me more body horror in my Mario movie. That's what all the kids are clamoring for. That's what I have appreciated a joke where someone gets eaten by a Yoshi egg and when they hatched, they're like, where was I just now? Absolutely. Right. Right. Like that's funny. Right. When Yoshi is introduced, there's a little flashback montage of him just causing chaos. And it's maybe the most entertaining thing about Yoshi in the whole movie. And I like the inclusion of Yoshi here.

It's literally the whole premise of whatever the most recent Jurassic World movies have been, but like done much better, done much better in like a 10-second montage. Yeah. Or just, you know, sometimes they experiment visually too. Like the credits are kind of papercraft, almost paper Mario style. And and sometimes there's just direct eight-bit. This is NES. This is S-NES. I wonder whether that's just an homage or is that to save some money on the budget maybe, but, you know, there are times where they get inventive like that. And yes, maybe it's also an Easter egg in itself, but it's also something a little new and different. And maybe we can, just before the end here, segue to a little bit more spoiler territory. Though, again, I think it says

something about the movie that most of what would constitute a spoiler in my mind is just who's in it and who's not, you know, what are the cameos? More so than the actual plot points and story developments. But, you know, I read a study that was published earlier this month by researchers at the University of Kansas and much love to all the academics out there. But this, I think, fits squarely into the category of, did we need to study this? Did this really require research? I'll just, I'll read you the synopsis here. New research from the University of Kansas has found that people with strong connections to a character or story were more likely to spot Easter eggs. And when they did, it not only heightened their enjoyment, but they did.

they were more likely to engage in fan behavior, such as posting about the experience online or rewatching. So groundbreaking stuff here from the University of Kansas. If you are a fan, you have strong connections to a character or story. You're more likely to spot the Easter eggs, and you're more likely to enjoy the Easter eggs, who would have known. But I had that experience when I was watching this movie. And at the end of the movie, there is a cameo, spoilers,

by Mr. Gaman Watch. Mr. Gaman Watch is deployed in the final boss battle against Bowser. And the guy who is sitting next to me by himself did this loud, braying, almost performative laughter upon citing Mr. Gaman Watch, sort of like projecting to the rest of the theater. I get that, you know, I get that research. I get the reference. That's for me.

I know who that character is. Yeah. And I got it too, you know? I know Mr. Gamanwatch. I recognize Mr. Game and Watch and like on some level, okay, this is kind of cute. This is kind of clever. But this guy, Game and Watch was the dude.

The dude. Yeah, right. Maybe, right. Maybe Game and Watch is just his favorite and he was there seated, hoping to see Mr. Gamanwatch and this just paid off all his hopes and desires for this film. Whereas I'm sitting there thinking, where's Wario? You're really going to do my man Waluigi like that? Neither of them in this movie.

But just sort of observing that man's reaction. next to me. I felt like some sort of anthropologist, you know, just like observing the fan experience. Because like, I get it. I mean, I'm a fan of many things, including these things, including Nintendo. And yet, I guess it just takes a little more than that, you know, to get me doing the full gaffa because it's like, yeah, I get it, you know, okay, I've played that one. I've seen that thing.

But that alone, just kind of putting that in the thing is not enough for me. guess. And so there's so much of that. So like the first movie, there are two post-credit scenes. So yes, you must stay until the very bitter end. The credits roll all the way. And like the first movie, there is a scene where we see Bowser imprisoned in a different prison, probably not a more secure prison this time. And then at the very end, the first movie, we saw the Yoshi Egg Cracker. And then this time we see Princess Daisy. So we have Peach, we have Rosalina, now we have Daisy, so we know that that's where we're going with the third film, presumably. But there's not much more buildup to, oh, okay, this is what they're adapting, this is what

they're doing, this is what they're building toward, because both of these films end so abruptly. Have you felt that too? We talked about how this one just kind of picks up where the first one left off or not even really where it left off. It just sort of starts. And it also just sort of ends. Both of these movies, when they ended, I thought, oh, wait, oh, that's it? We're doing the credits already, which again, I guess, says something about the movie because, like, you know, did we learn that much along the way? Was this truly cathartic and transformative? Is there that much to recap what we went through here? You know, it's just we went on an adventure and then that adventure is done and we will soon embark on another adventure, but this one is over for now.

The movies definitely end very abruptly. Yeah. It is something you can feel when they're coming to an end. When you lock in on the nut graph of the movie, like, all right, what's the goal here? This one, we got a stop Bowser from using his boomsday device that uses Rosalina as its power source. And so it's like, all right, so once they get to Rosalina, this movie's done. Because you've told me so little about her

that you couldn't possibly be spending 15 more minutes of conversation with her. And so once they find her and blow up the machine, it's like, yeah, we're done. All right, bye you guys. Yep, that has also been my experience of Mario games. It's just like, oh, absolutely. Yeah, Princess got on.

Chase the Princess here. She's gone again. Chase her there. And at the end, you finally get her and then credits. Yes. In terms of like what the Daisy reveal sort of suggests about the future, not a lot, right? I mean, not a lot. In the same way that the guy in your screening was geek to see Mr. Game and Watch,

which is so funny because of all the Mario characters to pop up in this, or of all the Nintendo game, characters to pop up and this kind of thing. Game and watch actually makes a certain kind of sense, right? Because he does feel sort of very much like a part of Nintendo's history, right? And sort of like a part of Nintendo's identity back when they were making those kinds of two-dimensional black and white games, right? But also game and watch, I feel like the Game and Watch cameo is for all the Game and Watch smash mains out there who like to be trolls. And it's like, that's right, it's our guy up there. I felt a very similar kind of way when Daisy showed up. I

I love Daisy, Princess of Saraceland. It's unfortunate that the biggest sort of like press Daisy's gotten recently is that meme of all the princesses together where it's like, let's all shave our jaws and not tell Daisy. And now it's all like, let's all show up in a Mario movie and definitely tell Daisy but late so that she showed them at the very end. Yeah. What does this suggest about the future?

It could be a princess thing, right? But even still, if Yoshi was the final tease at the end of the last film, and he's in this film, but he doesn't play a humongous role. You know, he's just sort of, he kind of becomes the de facto third brother, who's just kind of there to make cute noises and jump around and stuff. One would imagine and one would hope, and by one I mean me, that even when Daisy is introduced into this, she has a bit more going on. Like, what's Sarasso-Land's whole deal?

But, you know, looking at the way that Rosalina is sort of handled in this film, we don't learn too much about her, right? No. Well, yes and no, right? So we don't see all that much of what her life with the Luma's is like and what sort of her existence as a princess is like. But instead, we do get, you know, a bit of new canon that I'm sure will rub people all different kinds of ways. But they're like, Peach and Rosalina, they were sisters. Sisters. Yeah.

Which, like, hey, they've always, it's a fan theory, but it's kind of confirmed here. Hey, these two blonde princesses from another planet kind of look like one another. Might be related. Shocker. Coming out of the theater, I thought to myself, between, you know, Peach and Rosalina related and also, here's Daisy, is the next beat something with princesses and getting into their whole deal? Which could be, there isn't really one game to sort of riff on. for that kind of narrative.

That's not to say that the only way that these things can be made is that they're based on pre-existing games. But it's a direction that the studio could go, right? We recently got the new Peach game for the Switch, which people have mixed things about. I don't have a huge anchoring for Princess Peach, Showtime, the movie, but you know. It's just, it's not, it's not,

it wasn't high on my list of things that I was like hoping for. The game itself is, I mean, it is sort of cinematic in a sense. It's just like, let's transport Peach to all these sort of movies sets and settings in a way. But yeah, I did crave a little more from that Peach Rosalina relationship because you get that reveal, but then they spend almost no time together.

They basically have no real interactions with each other. Yeah. And all hail Brie Larson, our gamer queen, who is clearly just tickled to be in this movie. And she's just a real gamer. I mean, she goes way back. She's been clear and consistent on that. She's having a ball on the press tour. So I'm very happy for her to live her dream.

by using Rosalina in this movie. But yeah, ultimately, you know, Peach and Rosalina, they touch hands through glass, right? And that triggers their special connection. And that's very escape from which mountain. Yeah, but then what? You know, they kind of go their separate ways. And they split up.

And like, hey, my long-lost sister, who I haven't seen since she was a baby. Bye, girl. It's good catching up with you. Yeah, there's just not much more to it. But that's the Mario movies for you. So, yeah, look. people are of course fantasy casting the Super Smash Bros. movie,

and even if they're pumping the brakes on that a bit, I mean, sure, would I watch that? Would I like that? Yes, then again, we have Super Smash Brothers. We have the games, and the fun of those games is, sure, seeing the same characters share the screen, but also pitting them against each other and playing. It's not so much, you know, I'm not playing Super Smash Brothers for the plot,

you know? No offense to Master Hand or whatever. Excuse me, Master Hand is a deep and rich. villain. I mean, great, big bad, great, great culminating enemy adversary for all of Arden and Noca. There are so many shots in this new movie of Mario's gloved

hands and I kept making myself like, are his glove's going to fall into a black hole and turn evil? Fine, fine, if you have to do it, then I guess that's a way that makes sense, but... Yeah. It doesn't happen, which gave me some relief. Right. We have so many Super Smash Brothers games and bring

on more by all means, But would it be so much fun to just watch those characters brawl as opposed to controlling them brawling? Because these movies do devolve into sort of the third act of the Marvel movie territory where it's just, you know, people jumping and bashing the other shiny things. And you just sort of zone out and your eyes unfocus. Like it's all well done and well choreographed, but one battle blends into the next really. So, you know, the fact that we have Star Fox in a Mario game and we're crossing the streams and it's the Mario multiverse. and ooh, now there are no limits, and any Nintendo character could, in theory,

appear in any other Nintendo property. And that's intriguing. But then if the storytelling stays at this level, then how intriguing really is it, other than just, you know, we want to smash our action figures together and see them get smashed together. I'm with you, but I'd rather play that than watch it.

In defense of the smash movie truthers, once you get to brawl, there is a story there, right? There is definitely a story that could be used. It is just kind of like, what is it, small soldiers? Small soldiers meets Toy Story, you know, with all of your favorite Nintendo pals. It's just that the studio hasn't earned that yet, right? Like, that's something that part of the reason there's so much of,

so much of the idea of a Smash Bros movie feels like is Mario, or rather is Nintendo trying to fast track its way to an Avengers crossover event. And the reason that the reason that the Avengers movie works and the reason that, you know, the Smash Bros. Games work is because those two things are the culmination of a bunch of other things that, you know, are building up to them in advance that sort of give you a reason to be invested in the characters. It's not a one-to-one, right? But there are Nintendo games coming out in between each of the Smashes that give you feelings about those characters so that when you see them, you know, fighting the, goodness, when you see all the Nintendo characters fighting the subspace emissary, it's like, goodness, I don't. know what this is and this has nothing to do with your world but how fascinating yeah in order for nintendo to sort of put itself into that position it does have to sort of build out a library of these kinds of stories you've got you know you've got mario the the simple one fine you've got zelda coming up we don't know what that tone is going to be exactly but sure that's another one donkey con could be one and And if the studio plays its cards right, that could definitely pay off in spades, you know, a decade down the line.

But I think rushing it and being a little too agro about it could easily make this backfire in a way that the company wants to avoid. And to its credit, I don't get the sense that Nintendo is trying to speed run the franchise building. I think that they're just making movies and they're just telling some stories. And will that eventually culminate in some kind of crossover event? Yeah, almost certainly if these keep making tons of money. but I don't get the sense that it's all in service of that, of the almighty dollar, even though it is definitely going to make a lot of dollars. And it's interesting, I think, you know, we're all kind of playing general manager, right?

We're just, what's our corporate strategy? How would we roll this out? Even as we sort of bemoan that, we all engage in it, that tendency. You know, I wrote a piece for the ringer years ago about what a Nintendo cinematic universe would look like. We all like to speculate about this. And yet, yeah, we don't want it to be so transparent on the screen that that's what you're trying to do that the movie itself feels like an afterthought. Just like we're checking this box so that we can get to this destination.

Because we know from many other interconnected universes that you never really reach the destination. It's just always a reset until the next stop along the way. That's sort of landed Marvel in this sort of uninvailable position of having to claw its way back into not relevance, but into people's good graces. And it's another, it is another data point towards the people who are like, look, these Mario movies do need more substance to them. Because if the thing can be satisfying on its own as a standalone, that's how you earn the trust when you start to roll out the ideas for crossover. Yes, we all have deep-seated attachments to these characters and these properties. But do we have them to the movies themselves? And I'm sure that there are kids who are forging those connections to these characters and these properties through the movie.

and maybe that will be a gateway to the games. Maybe it won't, right? And so, you know, I'm coming to this from a different perspective as a washed man who's as old as Mario is as a franchise, essentially. So, you know, Mario's 40. I'm turning 40. Like, this is our perspective. So if the kids discover the wonders of Nintendo through these movies, then I'm all for it.

And, you know, it arrives at an interesting time in terms of the switches. life cycle or the Switch 2 because Nintendo reportedly is cutting Switch 2 production in the U.S. after a slow holiday sale season that has been blamed in part. You know, yes, it's prices and probably several consoles increased in price while we have been recording this episode. But it's also a lack of the flagship first-party system sellers. Even though there's Mario Kart, even though there's Bonanza, even though there are multiple Pokemon games that are really kind of carrying for Nintendo right now.

You haven't had the Zelda game yet, understandably, and you haven't had the 3D Mario. And leaker Nate the Haight, who is one of the more reputable Nintendo leakers, I suppose, recently reported Nintendo's upcoming plans. And, you know, this is someone with a fairly solid track record of having been accurate in the past. And according to the leaker, there's an Ocarina remake of some sort coming, later this year and a new Star Fox game. So if that's the case, you can sort of see what's happening here, right? So you re-release Galaxy and Galaxy 2. You get people familiar with those properties,

excited for the movie. You know, you put out a Mario tennis game in which baby Mario and Luigi play a major part. And then that comes back into play in the movie. Then you introduce Star Fox into the movie, and then you roll out the first Star Fox game in a decade, right? And the woman in your theater will be so happy to know that, yeah, this is a character who has a life beyond this multiplex. And another report, you know, not a shocker, but no 3D Mario until 2027, supposedly. And so the weight will continue there. And it's just, can Nintendo keep people interested with some of the, you know, lower tier properties? No offense to Fox, right? But, you know, will that be enough to sustain people's interests and will the 3D Mario movie keep

for a while because people are, you know, given the Mario movie to entertain them until then. So, you know, to put it in the context of that corporate strategy and the switch to some of the sales flagging in the U.S. at least, you can kind of piece things together and see what they're thinking, but even the Mario movie as much money as it will make for gamers, which we are here at Budmash, you know, this is not the main event, right? Like, this is the, this is the, appetite wetter, this is the amuse bouch for the Mario masterpiece that we hope we will get sometime soon. A Fox game coming on after this makes all the sense in the world because it's like, what is he doing here? It would have made more sense if Olamar showed up and gave them a ride.

Just because, just because the Pikman franchise has been a little bit more active recently, right? Yeah. Not as much room though in Olimar ship as in the R wing. You hit a button, the ship gets bigger. Who knows? Oh wow. Who knew what could do? that. But that kind of corporate synergy does feel like classic Nintendo, we've got a game coming out, put him in the movie. I feel like if work had been restarted on Metroid 4 and it had been delayed for a more polished final product that felt a bit more like a modern game, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Samus Arran could have showed up to give them a ride. Who's to say? that's for our alternate universe selves to ponder over.

I have all of those rumors I'm the most excited about an Ocary Now of Time, remake, because it is, it's, I'll just be honest about it. Sheik has been gone for too long. Sheik has not been allowed to thrive in the Nintendo ecosystem for too long. And if there are characters that really genuinely do need to be reintrodued to the populace in a big way. It is classic chic with modern graphics. I feel like Ocourine of Time with Breath of the Wild style exploration and climbing.

Yeah. Suddenly you can't find Switch Shoes anywhere. What happened? Yeah. All right. Well, we have discussed this movie for almost as long as the movie itself runs. That's true. Is it a great movie?

cinematic classic, perhaps not. Is it a crowd pleaser? Almost certainly. Is it a moneymaker? Indubidably, will it be more than a moneymaker? Perhaps not. But it depends whether you want it to be, whether you need it to be to be satisfied. But hopefully we have given you some sense of what to expect. And as always, love talking to you. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for covering this stuff. My pleasure. And stay tuned because this is not the last coverage of the Super Mario Galaxy movie on the Ring ofverse feed this week. The Midnight Boys, QPew,

will also give their takes later this week. And ButtMash will be back later this month. We've got some big games to cover. We will be talking about Pragmato. We will be talking about mouse, P.I. for hire, Saros, and much more. You can contact us at RingaverseGaming at gmail.com. Thank you to Devereign Molnado for producing this episode.

Thank you to Arjunio Ramgopal for his scene. your podcast management. Go see the Super Mario Galaxy movie because, well, if you don't, you'll be a little left out. You know that everyone else will. Careful out there, don't get got by any fake gaming news from April 1st. Much like Mario on the big screen,

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