The Ringer-Verse - Is 'Wicked' Actually Good? | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

The Boys may be late, but they are here to bring you all of their opinions of ‘Wicked’ (7:07). They give out their awards (1:05:18) for best song and maybe even give it their own rendition. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the ringerverse. This is the ringer's nextest podcast feed for all things fandom. We are

Steve, the architect, almond, the builder and tinger of things. We are Jomi, the explainer. A dinner on. RIP, the Lamar Jackson's playoffs. Jomey was so upset. You have never, as much as people say I'm Mr. Negative,

you've never seen a negative person until you watch the sport with Joe. Oh my God. Especially when he's invested. Yeah, it's bad. It'll be the half time and it'll be like, well, the game's over. It's over. It's done. They get the first down, Jummi goes, that's the wrap.

It's over. He goes to the medicine cabinet where I'm just like, take the bills. It was over. I wasn't over. There's a reason to lift. I wasn't here. Old man Van He of the receded resurgent hairline. Ugly duckling stage of the hair transplant journey right now.

The hair is growing back in. It's tough stuff. A lot of game left. A lot of game left. What's the timeline? Did they warn? you? They warned me, but I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't quite ready for it. And being the whole thing, watching these little hairs nurturing them, biotin, sleeping right vitamins, all that stuff.

Yeah, hold on that. Uh, called baby Chuck, the brunch haughty and 24-caratclosers. Together, we are known as, I thought of Midnight Boys. Midnight Collectives back there. Kerm. Jonathan Kerma. Jonathan. The wicked witch of the black. Can you imagine if all the, all the regular employees did the opening muskin number and get the curb? Good news. That's the greatest term.

Hey, yo. Alleyer, SOB, Zanaris, and Arjuna, the watcha. Ramga, pal. Who's like, Arjuna got some drip now. He'd be dripping. Honestly, Arjuna kind of reminds me of the wizard. You know what I'm saying? Wow.

A little bit of a diss. Given the history of this movie, he don't do nothing, he's just there for show, really? Whoa, whoa, whoa, no. I was more so he's like, he'd be yelling at it. He's like, all right, guys. But is he trying to, like, harm animals? I don't know. I've never seen Arjuna say something nice about him.

That's true. I don't know if he's an animal advocate if he's on the side of animals. Arjuna? What have you done for animals lately? Would you like to chime, please? What's your thoughts on P-22? Love that guy. That's all right.

Follows on socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok has been saved. Jomi is very happy about that. Jomi's job has been saved, Jomi. Hey, you know, for whatever reason, somehow TikTok, you know, stayed with us. Let's not getting its specifics, but it's here. So we're still posting there. Who's president? Your president?

Your president? Your president? Your president? Your president? Your president? Your president? Yeah. You're president?

Yeah. Okay, if that's how you want to feel about it. Look, I'm sick of it. Okay. Because when it was time to hit the mattresses, all I heard was all the reasons why. Can we not? This is not higher learning, bro. You guys, you guys do it twice a week.

That's fine. That's fine. It's fine. The whole, everything's over. It's done. The whole thing is fucked up. It's cooked. It's over with.

It's cooked. We're fucked. That's fine. We're on YouTube. Like, comment, subscribe, and share. You can watch every Midnight Boys and every House of Our episode on YouTube. com backslash at Ringiverse. Go to the YouTube and watch the stuff.

I'll tell you this. We're going to start doing YouTube special stuff. Special stuff on YouTube. We're going to start expanding the YouTube beyond just watching us on here. If you guys can't see us right now, we're all festive. We're all wearing witch hats except for Charles. Charles, why didn't you want to wear a hat? What did I say?

All right, bro. What did you say? Shout out to my barber, Joe. He does a nice job, but this is a very expensive haircut. You know what I'm saying? I didn't want to like. All right, man. Fuck the hair up for the...

You guys... You got a good gray to hair. I never noticed that before. This niggas, look at the soul glow-ass-niggas-niggas. What? What? You know? I love you so...

I never noticed that before. All right. Programmer reminders. This Friday, House of Rour comes with their house of Recommends episodes featuring special guests. Oh, so it's a special guests. surprise. Yes, it is. So they don't want to tell us who it is. That's fantastic. Any, any hints?

They wouldn't be special guests if we told you. Right. Now, would you? They would be special. It wouldn't be secret. Right. Right. Get off. He just fucked over you. Chuck just fucked over. So, like,

he's just got fucked over. Also, next week, Reconverse recommends, is back. That's where as well as more midnight boys. And when we always, just let you guys no little peek behind the curtain. When we say more Midnight Boys, that's because we don't know what we're doing

shit. We do. We do know. We do know what we're doing. We do know what we're doing. This is a surprise, though. Maybe we don't. But on today's show, we're defying gravity. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay? Because the reality is that people think that we should be grounded

to only cover in one kind of thing. But to those who ground us? Yeah. Take a message. We're flying and we're flying free. We're popular. We're popular. And we're not that girl.

And we're not that girl. We're We are flying free, giving you a way too late pod On Wicked Part 1 Wicked Part 1, a movie that we all liked. Maybe.

We'll see. Um, spoilers for Wicked Part 1 right now. No spoilers for the second act. We're not going to talk about anything that has to do with the second act. You want to talk about the second act? I feel like if we put up a big spoiler warning. Okay, but I haven't. Well, you should have fucking studied up.

No, I want to go to Wicked for good. This, wicked, the musical has been out for like 25 fucking years. Yes. You know what I want to go. My viewing experience as somebody who has come to these. You don't know what happens in the Wizard of Us? I do. Okay, but we talked about this.

Not exactly what happened. Whoa. So, whoa. That's too spoilery. You got, don't spoil it. Don't spoil it. Don't spoil the Wizard of Oz. Don't spoil.

We got to have limits. We got to have limits. We can talk about the Wizard of Oz. You're not going to believe this. There's a girl and a dog. Okay. You guys are fucked. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business,

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That's Clinic Kids with a K. Clinic Kids is registered 5.101C3 nonprofit. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh jrish. juicy, seasonal produce, and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake.

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The spoilers are coming. To begin our reactions, we got the Midnight Manifest. That's Chuck. All right, this is your Midnight Manifest for Wicked, directed by John Chu, screenplayed by Winnie Halzman and Dana Fox based on the musical based on the book starring Cynthia Revo,

Ariana Grande, Jonathan Bailey, Ethan Slater. All right, so, Glinda the Good and the Munchkins are holding a clan rally against the Wicked Richard West. One of the Munches is like, damn, ain't Elfabu used to be your big homie dog? And Glynne is like, you are exactly right. So she has a flashback to their younger years. They reveal that Alpaba's mom was cheating on her white husband with a mysterious figure who was drinking on green juice.

When Elfable comes out with magical powers, the governor of the Munchkin freaks out. And he's like, nah, fuck this. So he poisoned his second light skin child, Ness Rosa. and then she's paraplegic. But he's sending her to Shiz University, but his green child, he's like, nah, fuck off, you can't go. But AlfaBa gets accepted when Michelle Yow is like,

you're the chosen one. I love your magical powers. Also, AlphaBla gets caught in a reverse Oreo love triangle with Galinda and Fieri. You can't get enough of our sister. From there, Alpha Bha joins the cause when she realizes that the talking animals are under the boot heel of Big Oz.

Elfaba and Galinda meet the wizard who tricks Alpha Bata into giving some monkeys some wings, which she's like, I'm really sorry, Monkeys. And then Alphaba and Galinda freak out and kind of make up, but then don't. And then we get to find gravity. And that has been your wicked midnight manifest. I'm really, that was fucking great.

Yeah, that was really good. I'm really sorry, monkeys. It feels like what the Democrats told the Black America. Oh, right. It'd be funny if he wasn't telling the truth. All right. So before we get into our thoughts, on Wicked.

Should we even break down why the fuck we're doing a Wicked Fy? Because I will say this. I believe I like to be a man who can admit

when he's wrong and then you came in after we're watching Wicked and you put a lot of gas on this movie saying it was amazing. You were wicked pills

and I want to apologize. You are absolutely right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I went home. I watched the tape and I was like, they cook it.

They're cooking. Guess. You know? I think that I have one more journey in life. Okay. What is it? To embrace the musical. Let me tell you why.

Oh, wow. So I really get wrapped up emotionally into things. I think we all know that by now. Okay. So, you know, when I was watching Gardens of the Galaxy 3, it was hard for me to enjoy the movie. Because animals were parents. Because the animals were parents. Because the animals are getting hurt and messed up in the movie.

The animals in this movie were getting fucked up. Right. It's true. But also, there's something about musicals. And this is another reason why I don't watch a ton of cartoons a lot of times. It's because for some reason, musicals really affect me emotionally. I do not understand. Really?

It's just watching someone give the emotion that it takes to belt out a song and the motion that it takes to invest in to, I get super happy, I get super down. And then I think about the musical for days and days and weeks on end, just watching people perform and give their hearts and their souls like that.

I don't want to stay away from it. I don't want to touch it too much. No, there really is something to... I don't watch musicals that often, and I certainly don't go to enough shows as I likely should. But when there's a good musical, like it can be a very powerful thing.

Like I know that people can kind of write it off as being like a kind of a corny or like not serious thing that we can enjoy in 2025. But like they're like the certain performers and certain like ways of storytelling that only musicals can do and only like live performers or things that captured like this in a movie, it can be really affecting and powerful. And I really, really enjoyed it in this.

Like it was great. Oh no. A lot of these music. musicals don't be banging, though. Which ones? Which are the worst ones, Chuck? Oh, it's not worse ones, but it's like, like, bye-bye birdie is like a classic, but sometimes, you know, you want some Aida Waite's. Have you seen any of, like, have you seen any more like modern musicals?

See, I can't do like Lynn Manuel, Miranda. Like, I saw it in the Heights town. Because it was like they was rapping and doing flips and shit, but it wasn't like real rapping. It was like, no, but the grit. I'm going to say the grip Hamilton had on people, man. I don't like Hamilton. Oh, my God.

Have it like a Book of Mormon? Have you seen a Book of Mormon? Oh, that was fun. That was fantastic. Book of Mormon's great. The reason why I don't like Hamilton is because I don't like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a declaration of independence. We come and we rock it and we're doing it. That's not what they're doing, but I understand where you're coming from. I don't like that. I don't like hip hop to me is so cool that it's easy for it to be corny. Yeah, fair. So hip hop is so cool. It's so cool.

that all of a sudden, like, I went through this in the 90s when they were trying to use rap to sell everything. Oh, yeah, it's Pepsi Cola. Gotta get that. I'm like that. Right, yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? I don't like that type of shit.

I see where you're coming from. I will say this, though. The cabinet battles kind of have a grip on me. You fuck with it. I get why, yeah. But I just, I'm more so. But here's the thing. I will say with Wicked, they got some joints in this.

They got joints. They got some, like, bangers in this shit, bro. But you also got to think of everything else that is musical that we understand. You got to think about stuff like the Lion King. That's the musical. So here's the thing. The Lion King did hit the hood. That's the one I, like, my parents let me, they were like,

we're going to go to Broadway to see the Lion King because there's black people in it. Jason Weaver. Yes. Yes. Legendary performer Jason Weaver. Once again, I'm a huge La La La Land fan. Love La La Land. Cool.

I'm glad that you heard of that. Love La La La Land. Joker Fallie Adoo, one of the fans. One of the musicals of time. It's a musical. One of the musicals of all time. But, you know, I think also for like a lot of people, this is an all-male podcast,

I think that there is a part of your socialization sometimes that the musical makes you surrender. I think sometimes the browness of things makes people maybe keep the musical out of arms. You don't want to look. You don't want to look like you're having as much fun as the musical theater kids because there is something that is thrust upon them. You also don't want to be as exuberant as feel as a dude.

You're taught to mute yourself out a little bit to be toxicly stoic sometimes. And a musical makes you sing your heart out. It makes you smile. Everyone is dancing. And when everybody is down, they're like super down, super down to a point to where Andrew Tate not going to make you feel good about it. You know, like they're down. The only thing that's going to make you feel good about it is the animal talking again.

Right. Yeah. And so I think that, you know, there's sometimes it can be a little toxicity in the fact that we don't enjoy the musical sometimes the way that we should. I have a question. Did any of you guys do musical theater at all? I did. I did. I quit the wrestling team to do it.

You quit the wrestling? Oh, okay. What did you do? What did you do? Oh, what did you do? do. Here's the thing. I only did one musical because I was like, I couldn't, like, I can't sing like that,

but we did cats. Okay, okay. You know what I'm saying? They did, we did bye-bye birdie once. You know what I'm saying? Oklahoma. No, we didn't do Oklahoma. What's the one in the woods? Into the woods? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, great show. Yeah. You know what was a big production at McKinley? What? Little Shop of Horrors.

Oh, fun. Yeah. I could get down Little Shop of Horrors. They got some joints. They got some joints in Little Shopper Horrors. They got a little groove to them. We got a little bounce. So R. Seymour got beat up at the Quicksack. You just put, like, you strong words together. That's a lot of what?

R. Seymour at McKinley was a guy named Robbie. Okay. And Robbie was a great performer. Yes. And McKinley is in the hood, although they had the gifted program at McKinley, too, which means that there were a lot of white kids there. I remember a little shop of horrors was in danger because Robbie got beat up by some brothers in the neighborhood at the Quicksack off off of Highland.

For what reason? So he was going to the Quicksack. Unfortunate name. To buy some cigarettes. And he had his money. The Quicksack is at the corner of Roosevelt and Highland. In the South, right before you get to LSU's campus, but in the bottom. You know, but he was going there and he had his money in his hand.

It's a mistake by Robbie. It's a mistake by Robbie. Wait, why? How old is Robbie at this point? I think we were seniors. As a senior, he did not learn the lesson, like, keep the money in the pocket away from. I don't know why he would have done this. So apparently, Robbie goes and he's going into Quicksack, the guy snatches the money.

And then Robbie goes back out and goes, what, does he need a dollar that bad? Like, trying to, like, particularly out. Oh, nah, man. And they fuck Robbie up at the Quicksack. Tough. And we were all laughing about it until the teacher came in and was like, hey, I don't know. Show some trouble. The show might not happen.

And did you get up and be like, not on my watch. We got to fucking do something. I don't know if Robbie came back to McKilley. Anyway, when y'all making fun of him that bad? I mean, look, I love him. He was a good kid. He was our Seymour. But, like, it was fun to go watch.

He was our Seymour. It was fun to go watch. It was fun to go watch. things. It was fun, but then you get away from it because you think real cinema is interstellar. Real cinema is the brutalist. And we're going to be calling out the big picture on this podcast several times because we got some haters in the house. We got some haters at the ringer. And honestly, under, you know, Trump's America, I'm glad that the four of us here are supporting women, women of color in cinema. Yeah, all colors green. You know, all colors great. We got, wait,

really, we got to talk about what we think of the movie. Before we get into that, What is Elfaba? She's a black woman, right? Before we get to that, finish what you were saying about the big picture. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, Oscar nominations are coming out tomorrow. Mm-hmm.

I see a lot of people going to be mad if our sisters, you know, get a lot of nominations. Our sisters. Are you talking about like Ariane Ground Day back in 2014 in this too? Hey, you know, look at the roster. Shout out. Wow. What? Let's wait, let's not act.

Let's not act. act like Ariana for a while. That skin tone is dark in the mind, bro. That's absolutely true. Absolutely true. You know, Cynthia Remo? Yeah. You know, John Chu, not a sister, but you know.

A lot of people of color in this joint. Yeah. Bone Yang. Not enough black. Michelle Yo, my homie. Michelle Yo. Yes, right. Jomey bonded with Michelle Yo at a party.

Yeah, that's right. You don't remember this? Oh, you weren't here. Oh, you went there. Oh, Johnny. We had a party at L.B's house. we had the widest Juneteenth party that's ever been.

Yes. What was the ratio? Why do you want to like you? Not great. He had a party and then it was whatever. And then when you had Lawrence Bender's like, you never know who's going to pop up. And all of a sudden, Michelle Yo was there

and Jomey was doing this thing. Jomey was doing this thing that day. Off the milk, Joe? Oh, God. Off the milk onto the... Never mind. Oh, look. You see that off.

What are you to say? No, no. No, no. Don't let him. Don't let it finish that. Don't let it finish that. Do not let it finish that? No. Oh, boy. So what do we think of movie? Enjoy this movie? Do you feel, though, that the

highbrow film critics of the world are missing the boat on week? I guess more than just talk about obviously we love Amanda and Sean. Yeah, but like it do you feel like they're missing the boat on this movie and how it's really affected people because people love this fucking film? So here's the thing. I can get it. Like, I first of all, I really had a good time in this movie.

All of the criticisms that have been thrown at the movie, I think, are super valid. I think at many points this movie looks like Dogwater, just in terms of just like the colors, visually, the animals, the CGI, we could talk about it later. I could see if you're, like, very invested in, like, the Oscars, and you go to see something like a Nora or the Brutalist, you're like, Oh, Wicked is not. There's a different type of filmmaking. But there have been many musicals in the past that have gotten the Oscar Treaty.

For sure. West Side Story, Chicago, La La Land, which we've already talked about. The musicals, Le Miz. Yeah, but I think this musical is in a weird space where it has to do more, where it's like, like West Side Story Spielberg, that could just be Spielberg directing a musical. And this movie is in this weird zone where it's like, it kind of reminded me of the stuff that we talk about, where this is like IP. This is big.

This is world building. There's lore. There's like, what do you go to this movie? I think the tension in it is like the things that I loved most was obviously like the music and the characters and the performance. And then there is the like, we have a part two coming. We need to make this the biggest movie on the planet. This felt closer to me to like a Deadpool and a Wolverine than it did to like a lay miss. Yeah, I mean, in terms of tone, sure.

But I guess my thing, though, is there are different elements in a film and then we judge a film based on those elements, right? So it's like you didn't like the CGI and Wicked. I guess when I look at a movie, I look at, obviously there are things, like I love the Nora, right? There's some really big swings in a Nora that don't quite land, right? But when I look at a movie, I look at performance, theme, tone, execution, right? And to me, in that, by that bar, by that measurement, this movie stacks up really well with some of the best musicals that I've seen on screen in a while.

Well, I will also say this. What, the thing that, like, won me over about this movie, because I think you very eloquently earlier, sometimes as a guy you can kind of get a little bit like, fuck this, this is going to be corny or whatever. This movie was held together by its stars. Cynthia Revo, Ariana Grande, are so, charismatic are so electric

bring you in where it's like I can see why people are having such an emotional reaction not just because they love the musical but how many movies do we get now where you can see two actors be like oh no they're movie stars now like Ariana Grande was popular

but no pun intended but like this was the one where I was like oh she might she might just be a movie star now she's doing her thing though you know what I'm saying like Cynthia Revo the way she was I was just like oh like I want to see this person in more things now. And here's the thing.

A lot of the Oscar movies this year, I think were better than Wicked. But I think the performances in Wicked, I think outclass a lot of the more high-brow shit. If we're being honest. Like, Ariana Grande, if she wins Best Supporting, I'm like, I can see it. Like, who was better than her this thing? Well, I think something happened with me watching Ariana Grande. I want to make sure the- the men boys get to jump in here.

But something happened with me, with Ariana Grande that I didn't quite remember. I didn't quite remember just what kind of pedigree she has as an on-screen performer. Yeah. Because... You didn't watch Vitorious. Right.

But what I'm telling you is, like, she's been doing it for such a long, long time that when she, when it called upon her to be incredibly funny, incredibly, incredibly, like, over the top in, like, a really, really, really. delightful way. She was legitimately delightful. No, yeah. Like, delightful. And really, her voice, she sang in a different

register in this movie. So she was unfamiliar as Ariana Grande in the movie in the way that she even sang. She was really Glinda in every single way. It didn't sound like an Ariana Grande like pop song. Yeah. She sounded like the character. She was outside of herself and I was really, really, really impressed with her performance. I was thoroughly impressed with that because I've said before that I'm a bit too

Kristen Chenoweth-pilled because I had like knowing those songs that Kristen Chenowth from the original cast had sang and like pretty much embodying and making that character what it is I would have thought that like oh she's probably just going to do that Kristen Chenoweth thing and then people will like it and that'll be the end of the day but she really put her own spin on it in a way that is infectiously charming. There's like a point that in this movie where I think the song Loathing comes when she's talking about how much she hates Elphaba and all of

her friends are like ganging up on her as well and it's just like completely Ariana's show and I've loved every second of it like she was so good I think it's time to change Steve's nickname Steve's new nickname is Steve I read the book Almond I read the book

somebody's got it you know like I'm gonna be honest we can use that nickname for like one more week, but calling him, Steve, I read the book, Allman, during Black History Month with three other Black hosts. You literally put me in a video where I'm reading a book on Black History. So we've all read books. He just, I don't have to say. You read the book, but did you, you know, take it to heart? Did you apply those lessons to your real life? Right. That's the question. Yeah. And my actions will reflect that. Also, this is totally off topic.

What the fuck? I can tell, Jomi, you're so much younger than me because I love the Power Rangers. I don't know what Power Ranger this motherfucker is. Oh, this is the SPD Pink Ranger. Yeah, yeah. And the reason this, the shirt... Well, no. They made the Power Rangers cops? Oh, yeah, they did. They did. They did. Yeah, it was cool in

2005. Yeah, y'all was awesome. In 2025 well, the thing is, so the show aired in 2025, but it's set in 2025. Or, sorry, the show was, the show aired in 2005. The show aired in 2005, but was set in 2025 and it's 225. So I got the...

Right. So that's the female pink ranger cop? Yes. They the police? Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, I am also glad that like the Power Rangers started to diversify. It was crazy that this is the, I think this year, 20, yeah, test we had the first black, uh, Power Ranger or black.

Yeah, we didn't have to be the Black Ranger anymore. He was a red. No, he was red. He was red. He was red. It was tight. Yeah, man. Um, so I think we all,

have given a pretty, pretty, made a pretty good case about why we decided to talk about the film. I think the film, in a way, all affected us in different ways. Steve's been with the lore for a long time. Chuck took a chance. I was like, I got to see what you guys are talking about. And Jomey will legitimately watch anything. That's not true. So I remember we were leaving a screening and I was with Steve and his girlfriend and she was very excited about Wicca.

I'm going to see it two times. I was like, I will never see that movie. y'all got it that's something like you were really you were really toxic masculinity joe it's not it's not really toxic masculinity it's more like I got a sick because it was three hours right it'd be one thing if it was like 90 minutes you know even like two hours it was three hours movie was 240 another thing it doesn't feel like that it doesn't feel like that I'm in the theater I'm like hey this thing crack it what I look at my watch like when it's over and I was like yo that I don't even feel like three hours it was banging you know it was one of those things where you just like look

at it on face value you kind of like nah it's not really it's not for me let me not waste my time. I got the AMCA A list wind up. I leave the theater. I'm like, yo, lock me in part two. Let's get it. But also, I will say the thing that caught me off guard, because I didn't know what to expect. The first five minutes of the movie,

the munchkins going insane. They just like, fuck the moment. Burned out of the dead. Dude, dude, I'm in the theater. And like, you know, I know I know they're supposed to be homies. So when she threw the fire on the Fiji, I'm like, whoa. She's reluctantly doing it. Whoa. Didn't look like that to me. I was

like, yo, that's supposed to be your boy, but you just do the fire on her? I got to see how you come back from this. And then the first hour, she turned her like that. I was like, yo, me and Glinda got beef. This is crazy. She's moving wild. She was moving crazy. I was like, you're supposed to be Jones?

No. And then when they're doing the dancing, a little thing, I'm like, Oh, the school dance. First of all, you got to beat. I got to fight. all this kumbaya holding hands nonsense get that out of here she just spent 90 minutes putting you down she was the the grand wizard's a cold psychological tactic and that's supposed to be your girl nah man here's the thing she should have she should have punched glinda straight in

the face but she's like this your part of the room and it was just like the curtain in the bed i'm like all right man you got to slide nah it was team slide for glinda for a minute bro on sight. That's that green shit. What? What? What? What? I don't know. No sisters that would be treated like that by a 95-pound white girl.

But she was treated like that. She was treated like that her old life from her dad. I guess so. I mean, it is true. When that behavior's normalized, you'll tolerate it. But I guess. Is that how you're going to treat your mixed child? Steve? Oh, my little. Wow. I'm just asking. That's a great question.

That's a great question. Steve, Steve, absolutely not. Right. I don't know. You could be like that, dude. How? The governor of the munchkin? The governor absolutely now.

Fuck that dude. No. You have a lot of his qualities and traits. Why? How? Please finish this thought. How do I have his qualities? Because we know the real you.

Yeah, man. You up here selling the image to the feet. Oh, okay. Clearly. Steve got a whole other persona. Right. The Steve, the dungeon master, yeah.

His whole fucking, it's like 8 millimeter and stuff like that. I'm telling you, Steve. Steve probably go out on a weekend, slick his fucking hair back, put in a gold grill, completely different,

nigga. I don't believe in you, Steve. Tatted up, going to Japan. Anyway. Go on to Japan. Who do you think I am? So, all right.

So, the movie has a lot going on. Too much so. What's saying? Talk about it. So here's the thing. I was at home, VOD, I was telling y'all,

like, I was smoking a little weed and it hit right at the point where Peter Dinklage goat came out and started talking. And I'm like, wait, why's there a goat there? And then he started being like,

he's like, we oppressed. There used to be so many magical animals. The fucking munchkins and all these magical niggas are holding us down. And I'm like, Oh, word!

Elbao like sneaks out. It goes to like the rally, which... To the union meeting? Yeah, the union meeting. I'm like, hey, yo, I didn't know the wicked lore was this deep. Yeah, that I didn't really know that they was fighting for the cause. It was a little too much for me to handle. It's a big thing about animal rights in this movie.

Because one of the animals like, see somebody outside Elphaba, I think it was like a white snow leopard. She's like, fuck all this shit. I'm out of here. And I'm like, they do the race. This is why, here's the thing, that was realistic. Because, you know, whenever you try to unite people against a common cause, there's always that one person where she gets a little tricky. They just abandon you.

Are the animals, niggas, is that, are they, are they, are the animals in Wicked is, do they represent, uh, on oppressed, marginalized people that are being put in their place by this fucking... The narrative of the wizard pretty much. I mean, yeah, the wizard himself being a supremacist

who wants to create a hierarchy in Oz and put certain people at the bottom as a means to control everybody else. Absolutely. Are the animals in wicked supposed to be the oppressed minorities,

i.e., the black people of the real world? I mean, yes, but what confused me is they were basically talking about how like the animals talk and like essentially if they don't if they're not allowed to be at like the school or some shit they like learn they lose the ability to communicate and I'm like I wasn't really understanding

it's more of like the idea of just like losing those traditions and things that make you you if you allow those things to be slowly chipped away at by society you will then lose parts of yourself that you can't get back yeah if you don't if you don't let's you know if they don't teach you to read or write, then in your later they can control. Exactly. They're making dogs bark. They're supposed

to talk. The animals can also you know, at home if I hear my mom or dad talking, I can figure it out. Not if they separate you and put you in cages. Yeah. I think it's even a little bit more abstract than that.

It's like if something if someone has enough power to take what you are then they silence you. Yeah. Whether you could talk or not, whether you can actually talk or not, then who's hearing the words? Exactly. Like, you, you, essentially, if you are standing on a pedestal screaming about your oppression, right?

If you're standing behind something screaming about your oppression and no one is hearing you, essentially you're just barking anyway, right? And they were making fun of the goat. I kept, I was mad at Glinda. I'm just like, hey, yo, stop making. in front of Peter Dinklage. Who did not know that was Peter Dinklage? Didn't know.

The moment I heard, I'm like, yeah. It did take me a second. I was like, I know this voice, man. I know I've heard it before and I started like going through the rest of this my mind. Like, it's, and that really is funny enough. What are you talking about? Yeah, I ain't know that was no goddamn.

I did. I said it took a second. I should really be acting. Like, it's okay to say y'all didn't know. It's a very recognizable. It's a very recognizable. He's a very recognizable voice. He's a very recognizable.

No, God didn't know that was no goddamn Peter Dinklage. It's a serious. You didn't know? Doesn't mean we can't know. Don't do that. You didn't know. I'm fucking saying it. I didn't until I did. I'm like in a theater. I'm like, I know this voice, bro, is chipping at me. Like, I know this voice. And I start going through it. I'm like, oh, man, that's Etrieu de Dorf. What's going on? And it's an interesting, like, use of- Play stop the cap. No, don't play stop the cap. I don't. I said this on Sunday.

What are you talking about? Don't play stop the cap. Don't give that to him. I don't. I don't want to. Don't. It's okay, guys. I just don't believe it. You don't have to believe it. You don't lie to the news. What in the world? Hey, hey, you guys can have your own podcast where you lie about books that you've read. Don't do that.

Wow, man. We don't lie here on the midnight. We don't. Just because you don't have the ear, don't blame me. Also, what's the ghost name? No, the goat's name. Oh, the actual character's name. Oh, that was Dillibrand.

I believe that we should respect Wicked during these. difficult times because he was trying to put all the kids on and Glenda was like, get this D.I. shit out of here. They didn't want to hear. That's right. Nuts. Glenda definitely would be on Fox News. Oh, hell yeah.

She's had the contract. Yeah, Tommy Lauren, Megan Kelly. Yeah. But that's honestly, there was, because here's the thing, there was some subtext, you know, because Glinda obviously wanted to get with Alfaba, but I feel like she was just like, oh, I'm better than a black slash green woman.

And that's, that was really hard for me. They were, yeah, There's another thing. There's a lot of themes of queerness. Yes. Thruple situations as well. Throuple situations, a lot of, because this is what I like about stuff like this. This is another thing that I like about, at least from the outside looking in, from the musical theater community.

Is in these shows and movies and stage plays is the examination of a lot of things that society isn't ready to really have. conversations about yet, yet they put them in it and you put a song behind it. It's almost like rap. If I told you right now, I'm going to kill your cousin, you'd be like, Van, that's too much. But let me tell you I'm going to kill your cousin over a Metro beat. Oh, my God, we're killing their cousins. It's cool. The same, see, Jomi likes it already.

Killing the cousins, kill her cousins. But like when they put stuff like this, when they put stuff like this inside these, these are really complex things that they're litigating. Yeah. But they're putting this on. But you was telling us, Steve, that there's not that undercurrent in the show between Alphaba and Glinda. Is that true? No, there absolutely is.

There is? You know, there's, I mean, like, people have read that subtext for sure, but I think the more... This was mostly text in the movie. They was just like, yes. It's in front of y'all. But, like, that's also an interesting thing that, like, the movie has, like, adopted over these decades of the show existing that people in their head canons and other, like, people that have read into those themes. like have kind of like emphasized a bit more come the age of this show now because now come time for the movie's like okay we can maybe lean into that text a bit more and it works still like Fierro and

their like love triangle thing like really kind of plays well in this movie I loved what they did with Fierro by the way like Fierro is oh yo Jonathan Bailey shout up man I've been I've been there since crashing yeah y'all found them in Bridgeton I've been there just crash and lock in I don't know any of those hymbo national anthem dance of your life you never seen crashing no that's fair. Nobody seen crashing. That's fine. But Phoebe Walla Bridge? No? Just me? All right, cool. No problem. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, he was doing his thing.

He was in his bag, bro. When he showed up and they're doing the dance summer in the library. First of all, the little spinning thing. He did that. Whatever. I mean, the choreo was great. Coreo was great. The sets were fantastic there. That was one of my favorite sets. But that old, like, he carried that part of a film in a way that I was

like, oh, man, Jonathan Bailey. I was familiar with a game. but this is another level. This is nice. Like you said at the beginning, the performances in this movie from, I think, top down, really elevate this thing from just being like a normal,

like, all right, cool. It keeps you there. It keeps you there. It keeps you there. Also, I will say, I feel like Cynthia Revo, I feel like a lot of critics haven't given her her due

because I do think Glinda is, I don't want to say an easier part to play, but I thought Cynthia was so amazing. because she has to be so vulnerable and she has to go from the outcast to someone that you are so rooting for. And not only her singing, but her acting,

I was just like, it's not as flashy of a performance, maybe as Ariane's is, but I found myself really, really rooting for her. She has to play it low because by the time you get to the end of defying gravity,

she's legitimately bursting out of herself and daring everybody to fuck with her. Like, she's, she's like legitimately taking her freedom and saying there's like, nobody that can hold me inside. So the entire movie, she kind of has to hold herself inside a little bit and play it a little bit lower.

So when that moment comes, you're like, I'm so glad she said, fuck everybody. Whereas throughout the entire movie, Glinda gets to just cook. Yeah. Yeah. gets to just cook her eyes, her hair, her voice, her smile. She just gets to go.

And at the end, when she has sort of made her decision or she's playing it a little bit more reserved, that twist expert storytelling to me. I could not agree more. I mean, the funniest part of the movie to me, I was telling you guys was like, I think it's right when Alphaba and Glinda start like connecting in the bedroom and I forget what Alfaba was like I'm not telling you this Glinda

and she just runs to the bed and then fall for I'm reminded five times I was dying huh all dramatic the size little things you would do like when the wizard does his trick and she goes

when Jonathan Bailey first shows up and she's trying to like check him out and she just like grabs a Bucking. Yeah. Like, we did it. We remember me to get earlier, but the hair flips and the dramatic.

Yeah, every hair flip I kept life. It kept getting funny air and funny. All right. So what I want to also ask you about is Wizard of Oz lore. Because the one thing that did take me out a little bit is everybody's like, that young girl is green. Fuck her. And I'm like, there's talking animals.

We got munchkins. We got all these different type of shits. Why were they just like? We can't fuck with the green girl. I don't understand. What's a better metaphor? Like, all the crazy things in this world and then this is what you get? I'm going to be honest.

I'm going to be honest. If there was a green child, a green woman walking around, she'd have a fucking Bravo show. I mean, be the most followed person on TikTok. Drake would be, like, trying to shoot his shot. Like, I feel like that was the most unbelievable part. Well, this is something I always get into. I always get into what people believe. in unbelievable worlds

or excuse me what people don't believe in unbelievable worlds it's like even in the MCU sometimes somebody will do something and they'll be like and I'll be like Duh 3 billion people got slapped

There's nothing it's all possible Yeah okay like nothing's off the table It's like oh I can't believe I can't believe the power that you have Yes you can you see this possible Speaking of comics is like They love the Fantastic Four They love the Avengers

they hate the X-Men. You know what I mean? It's like what makes the X-Men different from other people. I will say, I will say, if we being real, if you heard about some superpower motherfuckers

who was born with it and they're in a secret school and they don't go outside and you'd be like, damn, that's some kind of culty. Man, it wouldn't matter a fucking reason why you could do the shit that you do.

If you could do it, I'm not fucking with you. It's like the X-Men just get their power spontaneously. And I think that pisses people off. But if I, if you got Dr. Manhattan, if Dr. Manhattan was sitting in front of you, if you were Dr. Manhattan, I'd look at you, I'd be like,

hey, yo, why you ain't died, bro? Put some pants on. Like, seriously, you should have died, bro. I don't trust it. So you were a hater. I think you was always like this. Get out of here. And you're giving people cancer.

You've always been blue. Yeah, like, why you didn't die? So I'm telling you, to Jomi's point, I do see what you're saying, but to Jomi's point, Or to the greater point, it's like, you do have to do a little bit of work to make it real that you would have a problem with the green person and a place full of talking animals and all of that stuff. I don't want to look at it. It's so. I'm not trying to look at it literally, but there was a moment where I could also challenge that, though, because like since the wizard is pretty much the political and narrative figure throughout all of Oz, he sets the tone for what is and is not permissible in this world.

And there's a law against green people I mean he'll be like well your affliction you're like all of those things that like are just like minimizing her sexually attracted to the green woman sure

absolutely but it's like it's the idea that like all these narratives and all of these things that can persuade people to believe all of these stupid fucked up things about some random people that have absolutely nothing to do with who they are or what they can be like Steve this motherfucker has a monkey army

I understand before before I start bullying in the green woman for feel who she is. I'm gonna be like, the magic wizard has a bunch of fucking fighting monkeys. Also like, and, you know, the whole movie rests on the impetus of,

oh, actually, the animals are bad, right? We gotta, but it's just, and we gotta use this magic book to make sure that they stay good. Well, the whole thing is just like,

oh, we need, they need, people need to have a common enemy or just make the animals the enemy. And then people will stand by us and rock with us, And it's like, oh, you just made that up.

Mm-hmm. None of this is real. And guess what? Now they have a crazy, crazy Green Lady leader that is going to fly around and terrorize all the work. Spoiler alert. No, that happens at the end of the movie. It does? Yeah.

The monkeys go with her. Monkeys go with her. Oh. Yeah. You was too high, huh? Yeah. You were just wrapped up in defying gravity. You know, I remember what it was.

That was almost, if it went on one beat too long, you know I'm a CGI. stickler, where she was flying around. I was like, damn. I mean, the last 10 minutes of this looks like a Marvel movie. Yeah, I mean that as a compliment. Okay, so, guys, I'm going to be honest with you. I was crying.

No, no, no, no. I mean, I was, I'm going to be honest. I was crying. At the moment. Play stuff to cab, he wasn't crying. You just make that up. I cry about, I talk about my cry. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Why can't then cry? I can't we know who Peter Dinklidge is. Why can we know who Peter Dinklidge is? Because you didn't know. You did. You stop trying to impress the hose. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's gonna...

Hey, yeah, I knew who Peter Dinklish was. In the wisdom of love. Jomey, I heard you knew who Peter Dinklish was and Wicked. But that's the type of shit you would say to try to impress him, though, Jomey. That's so... That's what Jomey. You were crying at the end of Wicked. Yeah, I'm gonna try that this weekend.

I'm gonna see it. I'm gonna let you know how that work. I said it. I said it. I cry at musicals. I cry at musicals. I was talking before. Like, I cried Lala Lane, cried this.

cried the Lion. I don't like to watch. watch the Lion King. I can't enjoy the stuff that makes me feel emotional like that. I'm a cry at movies. A lot of movies. I'm a crier.

Now, that was emotional. I, like, again, 23 minutes of Defiring Gravity. There's a lot going on. You know what I mean? It's a seven-minute song. I think... It's a little bit for me.

Listen, they stretched it out. And I will say... Guys, just give me the song. The movie is... Just give me Define Gravity. The movie is guilty of knowing how popular its musical is. And you're just like, hey, we heard you like popular.

You know what it is? It's like popular. A little thumpflex. By the fifth time, he takes it to them. You like, you play Otis, bro. Just play the fucking thing, man. Stop. We know why you're here.

Come on. But to the film's credit, I understand why you would cry. I was, I didn't cry, but I was like, yo, I feel some right here. I was going to work through. I feel some right here. As an emotional crux of a movie, like, as the climax of the movie, I don't know what's, like, perfect might be, like, too far. But it was incredible. Like, if the movie rests on that?

Aren't they not allowed to feel? Because you was just like, band cried. I didn't cry. I didn't cry. Why did you do that? I didn't cry. Like, it's just like, I didn't cry, but I also felt the emotional.

I don't know why. Y'all are so toxic today, bro. What do you mean toxic? I'm just saying, like, I did not have the same emotional response to he did. But I felt the same feelings to hate it. Let's talk about the, uh, let's talk about the elephant in the room. And we're elephants. What elephant?

Let's talk about Nessorra. Rose. Yo. Oh. Man, listen. Listen. Nessa Rose, man. I got to tell you, man.

Shout out to the actress. Shout out to the portrayal of Nessa Rose. Nessor Rose is the most fucking annoying character. It's tough. Like, Nessa Rose is the most annoying fucking character

that I've ever had to root for or ever been forced to in any way have to connect with. there were many different times in the movie where I was like just roll Nesser Rose right off the edge Oh right Oh right man

No going too far Going too far He's right It's like I know the beginning this is when I was like I don't know how this musical is going to get me back on Nezoros' side When I saw like little Elfa ball

Like get she was like so cute And so tiny And like she was like using her powers And you could already see Lil DeSarose just being like, fuck this green bitch. And I was just like, yo, you support your sister, God. Yeah. No, for real.

Like, by the end of the first act, it's just like, okay, we really need you to step up for Alpha, because you've been with her your whole life and she's done nothing but love you unconditionally. That's your sister. That's your flesh and blood. That's some white skin shit, and I can relate. When they come in, they start hating, you got a bit of, hey, hey, yo, chill on my sister, but, like, relax.

That's my flesh and blood. Try rocking one. with me, y'all rocking with her. She come along, too. She was there like, no, y'all got it. Nah, man, like, look, we're going to have to squabble. We got to fight.

I don't care. Squabble up. Like, I'm for real. Like, that's just the level of disrespect. Wait, can you guys tell me what was, why was they dancing, interpretive dance? I was confused. Brilliant, beautiful scene.

Yes. I'm not saying it was a bad scene. Why were they doing it silently? Beautiful scene of connection that, look, when a story works, Sometimes it doesn't mean to make sense. When a story works, a story works, it's so interesting to me. We sit up here on this podcast and we have conversations about things that honestly we want to work.

Honestly. Yeah. We have conversations about stuff that's interpretations of other things that worked. And we're like, it worked because it was faithful to that. But the question that sometimes we don't get to ask is, would this have worked if it was the first time we ever saw it, right? If we didn't have, I'm asking this question of me,

if I didn't have decades upon decades of understanding of the characters, would I just be into what I'm seeing? I hadn't seen Wicked, but I understood everything that was happening even though it really didn't make any sense. I mean, even though she's doing all of that,

and I'm like, oh, my God, somebody save her. I was doing the same. I was like, yo. I'm like, because I'm like, oh,

because I'm watching it at the house. And I'm like, man, fast forward. She's like, no, you have to watch. I'm like,

I can't look at it. It's killing me. Somebody save her. And when Glinda saves her, I was so thrilled. Whoa. Let's, let's,

Glinda didn't save her. Glinda put her in that position in the first place. That's what I say. But that's true. But that's exactly why it's so powerful for both of them because she realized how much she fucked up and

if Alphaba had just been sat on that dance floor by herself that entire time that would have like emotionally broke her I just didn't want her to be alone. I know and the fact that Glinda understands how much she She wanted to go wrong. Her oppressor. That's what I'm saying though. Because it wasn't until after she got Glinda

into the seminar with Mrs. Morrible that she was like actually. Yeah. That's what I'm saying, right? Right. So again on 90 minutes I'm like hey should be your after whole movie. Why are you being so kind. It's because she realized in that moment

that that's the saddest that she's ever brought her to be, like, because she gave her the hat. Yeah, Gwendo, she was a Karen,

because here's the thing. She had the second time to do it. She was just like, before to find gravity, Alfa Bo was like, yo, come join me. Yeah.

Fuck this shit. We can roll this together. We love each other. What does she do? She coesies up to power again. Because she's afraid. A, man, I don't know, man.

She's afraid. She's afraid. This doesn't, this doesn't, like, absolve her of that. A white man sticking up for white people. Not sticking up for her. It's just a lot of it. It's only because you should tell aside.

You haven't said anything nice about Alphabet this all the time. What's it like to me? I understand your point because it was like emotional. It was seeing everybody come together around Alpha But in that moment did mean something. But I was a hater. I was like, hey man. I was so mad at Glendda.

I was like. Well, I mean, I think. Sneaky, sneaky. Well, I think this is well. I think that, like, like, Like, we're always talking about the generational differences, you know. I surrender to the happenings of the story. And you guys have to go into it with your righteous, BS bullshit.

Our woke agenda. Our woke agenda? I keep trying to tell you guys. It's the unwelkening. It's over. You lost. Okay. The voters showed at the polls.

You guys. Yeah. Yeah. We had people, my grandmother, civil rights worker. She did all kinds of stuff. You guys ruined her legacy with your bullshit. Damn. So he ruined her legacy?

Yeah. Because you fucking. Be and Jomey? Us specifically. Specifically. Stay out of it. Like you and Jomey ruined everything that she did by thinking, you know what, fuck it. I was happy when she did it because I just wanted her.

I just wanted somebody to be there for her. And the person that should have been there for her. That's a role. It was her sister. Roll her ass out there. But she was too busy. Fucking with the white boy. Who, by the way, got set up to her by Glenda as an attempt to dissuade him from getting put on.

And it's like, all right, man, I can't. I'm supposed to stand with you, Glenda, when you're moving like this. You know what I mean? When you put a Glinda on Survivor or something, she's really good at the social game and bringing people together. That's the Rose-O-Doh. That's all sweet. That's a roll-so out like, oh, this boy take interest of me. Really, all SpongeBob wanted to do was make Glenda happy.

I was hot. SpongeBob. Damn. That's what he is. I got to ask you all about to you. Gossip real quick. Because like now that I'm in Wicked Hive, I'm Wicked Pilled. So people have been worried about Ariana and Cynthia because they keep showing the photos of what

Cynthia's wife's name. Lena Wade. Lena Grande and Cynthia didda-da-da. Is there any, are people just making shit up? they must not know that much about, no. Lena, it's fine. There you go. I just didn't know it.

Like, I've been starting to be certain content. I don't know, I don't know them like that either. But I saw some of the pictures from the Emmys, you know what I'm saying? I don't know them like that either, but I do know one thing. Man, it's niggers on this planet that ain't got the swag Lena Waith. Ain't nobody robbing Lena Waith for her girl. Whoa, Ariana Grande, if we just look at the track record, you know what I'm saying? I get it.

I get it. I mean the best we've ever seen. Yeah, yeah. Right. I'll be the best we've ever seen. Put them numbers. You know, I know, I think that they're a really, really happy couple. And to be honest with you, I think that they're one of, uh, it's probably just because

of the way we look at the world. I think they're one of the more accomplished and talented celebrity couples that nobody really talks about. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you're saying the internet is trying to, uh, break up a black fan. Manufactured or narrative. I'm saying,

People, the internet are going to do what they're going to do. It's, it's, it's compelling to talk about. It is. It's funny. You're like leaning off the one to play with it. Not to me. I don't think so. I don't think that's a thing.

Like, you know what I'm saying? I don't think that's a thing. But what, the press run itself was interesting. Do you feel like the press run was annoying? Yes. No, that's why I'm like, I'm not watching this movie. It's like everything was pink. Everything's green.

Like, they, went like 10 toes down and I was like guys y'all got it player it wasn't just that the theater kid energy of the press run was out of control I mean but that's kind of the thing that they embrace about the whole thing because it's like now that I am comfortable with myself I appreciate the press me too sure I appreciate it yeah it's doing a lot it's doing a lot I appreciate it too man I think that the press run showed and was reflective of the actual affinity that they have for each other. And I think that the movie,

the on-screen, on-screen, on-screen, the on-screen, off-quin. The on-quin, off-clean. On-quin. On-quin. Mike Tyson. I love Trump. The on-screen chemistry that they had,

you can tell that it was genuine in the film. Oh, yeah. So that also came across. Also, that happens in every production ever. People get a little too, like, Oh, in a musical? Yeah. It's like, here's the thing.

There's nothing. There's nothing. You've never seen anything more horny. Especially in high school than theater kids. It's just, I'm just like, it's another. Yeah. It's another level. Before we get to awards, I have to ask this.

John Chu, people have been rough on, on his direction of this film. For how it looks, some of the choreography. I can see what people are saying. do you think that this, because I think he did what they hired him to do, which is he turned wicked from something,

like a popular musical into something that can hit for quadrants that people like us are talking about now. Not many directors can do that, but do you think that there is any,

you know, people have said it looks ugly, said there are some things that they wouldn't do. Do you think people are being haters? Or, I don't necessarily think that people are being haters. I'd say that the movie at this point has made $709 million.

That's not all theater kids. So what I would say is that while you could actually ask questions, it's hard. It's hard with anything like this because you always want to, how is the movie supposed to look? What is it supposed to feel like? is there anything about the visual storytelling or the pacing of the movie that takes you away from the story, right? And the answer is no. And I can't say that same thing about other films to me that have been overdirected or other

directors to me that sometimes get too obsessed with what they do visually. Like, as much as I love Tim Burton, and I've talked about how much I love Tim Burton, how much I love Tim Burton, talked about Sean with how much I love Tim Burton. There are times when it seems as if his flair for the visual interrupts his ability to tell a coherent story. Right. And the cardinal sin of the movie would have been had that happened. Yeah. It didn't.

It didn't. It didn't. But, you know, in more expert hands, could there have been some things done with the movie that may be. I'm not saying he's not an expert, but I'm saying if you get one of the very best, if it's Spielberg. Or whatever, but I'm saying he did a great job. Yeah.

Well, I think the thing that I will say that, like, it took me a while to get over is I think the Wizard of Oz, obviously, is one of the most beautiful movies of all time. Think of the colors. You think of the ruby slippers. You think of the Yellow Brook Road. And there were times in this movie where I'm like, why is it so goddamn ugly?

Why is it so gray? Why do the colors feel so washed out? Why doesn't it feel as vibrant as it should? And part of me was like, if I'm guessing, for them to do the amount of CGI that was necessary, I don't know if it was necessary, but to get all these CGI animals in this, to get the Emerald City in this,

I could see them being like, we need the, there's some things that maybe we can't do just because they, This is a big spectacle. I will say, like, during the Wizard and I, like, she's going throughout the whole campus. And it kind of like, it looks like fine, like, I think in the beginning and the middle, at the end, which is in that field. That's CGI-I field. Now, the field was bad.

It was tough. She's having her moment. Cynthia's doing her thing in that moment. And if you're just listening and looking at Cynthia, you feel it. But then if you, like, take the entire shot to into existence, you're like, yo, it's not really. It's not really good Gone to New Zealand Y'all could have gone to a

Theo Lai. Something as big as this feels gargantuan to think about how you would begin to direct a movie like this and to simply

land that plane and make a successful movie, let alone a incredibly enjoyable one, I can't knock the guy. I will say also that is talent

being like he got out of the way of Cynthia and Ariana. There were some scenes where it was just the two of them in a room. And he's like letting them cook.

And I'm just like, that is also a talent The whole thing is his vision. Of course. So he was able to adapt something that people were pretty familiar with as a pretty big cultural footprint and make, to me, a delightful and a dazzling film out of it. And I thought he did a good job.

It's always like when you look at something, you go, oh my God, I do that with Marvel movies sometimes. I do that with other movies. Like, what if so-and-so had this in their hands? But I do see it, you know, particularly the CGI. Look, this is the thing. about CGI. Okay, before we move on,

what movies have had great CGI lately? Give me a good CGI movie. The Planet of the Gets. Planet of the Apes. Yeah. Planet of the Apes movies. Now, the only thing I'd say about those is that they're CGI characters,

but not a lot of CGI, like, like, spectacle. Well, here's what I... But also, like, there's a lot of stuff that are CGI that you don't even notice. Oh, of course. A lot of the time.

Like backgrounds, like added in shots. like things that are just like a wall. Yeah, but here's the thing. This is why I think the Planet of the Yates movies that Reeves directed was, were actually really good because because the apes were so CGI forward, he made sure that the surrounding areas, like you can remember the snowy fields or the jungles are in this. And even if some of those parts probably were spruced up with CGI,

they looked realistic enough to the eye where you're just like, you're in the world where I think some of the CGI and Wicked and later stage Marvel movies is so in your face, you're like, this doesn't feel, like, we bring up Winter Soldier because it feels like a real place. Like, you're just like, there's CGI bullshit happening, right? But this feels like a Washington-type area. But Oz is also this fantastical, like, imaginary land that doesn't, that isn't real. But Wizard of Oz still looks good.

Oh, I mean, sure, of course, but that was also like made in the 30s and when color was invented and it's just like, hey, let's make the reddest red. Let's make the clearest blue. They could have done that. hear. I understand. Not to derail the conversation, but you mentioned Winter Soldier and how, like, you know, that look has permeated.

We talk about, like, how shows, like, the MCU looks and how it doesn't have any color and how, like, I think that started because of Winter Soldier. I mean, yeah, like, a lot started because of the snowball effect that Marvel had. You think about The Avengers 2012, you, like, it looks like a TV show, but it's colorful, it's bright. it's in your face. After Winter Soldier, they're like, cool, we're just going to do that. And they meet the colors.

There's a whole bunch of grays in there. It's not the same. It's supposed to be a comic book movie, but it doesn't look like a comic book movie. You know what I mean? And so we can talk about how, like, winter soldier changed the game, but I think you also have to look at the fact that, like,

we look at, like, you can tell the difference between Daredevil on Netflix and Daredevil on Disney Plus because of just the colors. So you think Bowen Yang needed brighter and more audacious glasses? I don't want to behave. I don't think Beau and don't. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, I'm not reading.

Let's keep it moving. Yeah, let's keep it moving. Shout out to Bowen. You get your money doing anything. You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to say. Oh, the check must be crazy. Oh, yeah, man.

Shout out of Bowen. All right, Chuck. Oh, it's time to give out some awards. Obviously, you know, Wicked's going to be one of the most, probably really awarded when the Oscar nominations come out. But for today, we have some of our own. So the first is best number. Now, I feel like this is a easy two-way race.

This is either Define Gravity or Popular. And I'm going to be honest, I love Define Gravity. I do. I think Define Gravity is a better song. But in terms of this movie, I think Popular is the best moment of this. Like, easily the best number. So this is, so I was, Popular is the best song to me. Do you think Popular is better than Define Gravity?

I do. Because I just like it better, right? But if I'm going to give it, we are like on the other side of this. If I'm going to give it to the moment, defying gravity is the best moment. They fuck the moment up? Nah, nah. They come on, bro. So the fine gravity.

The fine gravity is the best moment, man. Define gravity. That shit was 20 minutes, bro. No, no, bro. Define gravity is legitimately, that's like the moment, you know, like Iron Man busts out in a suit, brus. That's like, I mean, that is it. Gravity is...

She has a big Kate. You know what I mean? That's like, I am not dead and I did not yield. Like, and do like that... Word for word, bar for bar. No, no, you're like, I emotionally, I agree with you.

Like, when Cynthia starts to belt it, I'm like, I'm defying gravity. Oh, but popular. Like, I think like the dancing, the room, the choreography, everything, just Ariana that moment. Yes.

It's the best makeover montage ever. Come back. What you guys got. It's, I see Richard Shane fan, but I got to go popular, man. That was the moment in the theater. Like, emotionally, yes. Define gravity, got what it takes. But again, at this point, I'm like, I'm still hating Glinda.

And then the popular habits, I'm like, actually, she got a cold. Yeah. She got it. It's kind of tight. I got to go popular. Also, what was the joint in the library? It was getting down. Dancing through life.

Yeah. Yeah. They had the best. They had the best biography. Yeah. choreography. Yeah. It was great because you had like those ladders in the library and the tables.

That's the type of shit. I was like, is there some behind the scene shit? I want to know. Because if it was all Cgiama be really, I wish it was like all realistic. Right. I always wonder, man, this is going to sound stupid. But like when I watch musical sometimes, I always wonder, man, how they do? Like, everybody dancing.

Yeah. Everybody dances and practically practices all that shit. You've been on a film set before, man. It's so much shit that has to go right. and to have all of those people dancing and moving and doing all of that stuff at the same time. It's really impressive. It's really, really cool.

It really is. I would go for defying gravity, but I also want to give love to, I'm not that girl. It's the Cynthia Revo song when she's after she meets Jonathan Bailey in the woods and she like almost has a romantic moment with him. And it more or less like summarizes her whole arc

for this entire movie. It was really, really great. And it's probably one of the better like Cynthia solo performances. That in the way. Wizard and I. Like, I'm a big fan of that song. So what was, this is also, I feel like, pretty easy.

Best performance. Cynthia. Cynthia. All right. Just that. Come on, man. I love Cynthia. That's pandering.

That's pandering. I like that. It's Cynthia. Play the drums, man. Here's the thing. It's not the fact that I can't give Ariana her flowers because she was incredible, Glinda.

She was doing a great job. I think that when you get Cynthia to, like, really bad. And this isn't even about, fine gravity. This is about, I'm not that girl, this is about Wizard and I. When she can belt that shit, it's incredible, but when she can, like, be

like, in that, like, lower and more tame register, it's also incredible. She's an incredible... Steve, come on, man. You said that so quickly. You can't even take any of these black women. You said that so quickly. Play the drums, my boy. It's, it's... I can know who Peter Dinklage is, and I can admit that Cynthia Rievo is...

No, no, no, no. And I was... And I was the movie. Steve. Oh, my crazy. Steve, no, play the drums, bro. Play the drums, bro. Absolutely not. Play the drums.

You played the, stop the cap for me. I actually didn't. I didn't press the button. No. That's going to be on curve. It'll be in. Put it in it in. Put it in it in.

Play the goddamn drums. The reality is Cynthia Revo did exactly what she was supposed to do in this movie. There was a 10. Could have been the best that she could have done. And it's a 10. She did exactly what she was supposed to do. Wicked Act 1, or at least this movie, is just Glinda's movie to be all over the place. I think it's,

Glinda was the one that got to get into her thing. Cynthia was playing a straight man. And so, and because of that, I'm going with Glinda, who was in her bag every single scene. Ariana was great. You could argue that maybe it was one note, but that note was a high fucking note, man. I got to give it to Glenda.

You got to. You got to. Sorry, Steve. It got to be, Ariana. It got to be. All right. So, racist moment. Which one was the worst?

So there's a couple. When they bring the little cowardly cub in the cage and nobody wants to stand up for him, I was like, this is some fucked up shit. Then there was a little kids who was making fun of my little alpha. I was like, you got to get these kids out of here. The worst racist moment to me was by far the moment that she was born. The moment that she was born The moment that she was born She comes out

Her dad goes Man let this bear raise this fucking Yeah He gave it to her Like It's like I'm like I'm looking at this guy

And by the way Like throughout the rest of the movie Your relationship with the father Is a little bit You go back and forth This is one of the worst motherfuckers That I've seen in a movie in a long time Yeah

Yeah Like him And Nessa Rose deserve each other. Oh, she rolls across the feet. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. He poisoned Nessa Rose. So. Yeah, it's the whole night.

He's one of the worst dads I've seen. But the racist moment, I look at him, I'm like, you know what? That's it. That's fucked up. You fucked up. You're fucked up to me. I don't like you. That is, because I forgot.

I almost started tearing up. I'm like, she got to be raised by a beard. Outside. You got to raise me. Outside. The munchkins are, because they was crumping. the town square. With that F and the year.

Oh my God. It was nasty. They built that by the way. They put that up in like 20 seconds. They had it on deck. They had it ready. That's the most like obvious. They had that in the drafts for months, bro.

They was waiting to get that off. The same munchkins that like sold out Fred Hampton. Also, it was. What? Whoa. What? There was Colette. Ay, y'all.

Is that what the Lollipop Guild meetings are for? Jesus Christ. God. Damn. Best animal. It's easy. It's LeBron James. Shut up.

Tease the goat. Shut up. No? That's such a dick ride. Bro. Somewhere. This is a guy, man, is on the glazing that's going on over this, bro. Somewhere LeBron is like, oh, my God, bro.

Doing backlips on that shit. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? That's a dick ride, bro. That's a dick ride, bro. That's a dick ride, bro. Triple double last night 40 years old There you go

Whatever I did like the lion cum I like Use my man I'm going with the monkey That got his wings And I'll tell you why That was a tough one

What? No No Because he was I felt He didn't want the wings I know but I felt the most For him

Because he He triggered her Into being like These people are fucking crazy Yeah Like you know I mean Peter Dinklish

Was the king animal and then I got to give credit to the bear mama the stepmother the stepmother bear who stepped up but the monkey kind of was like

it was very when I was looking at the monkey I was like God damn man he didn't want no wings he doesn't know who to trust no I'm just doing this I got to call cap on that moment because as painful as it was imagine if you just got some wings like you know

I don't know that he was writhing in pain. That was so bad. That looks so bad. If Alfa-Ba walked in here and was like, I could give y'all some wings. Now I'm on wings. Yeah, but you're going to have experienced

the worst pain you've probably ever felt in your life. Well, for how long now? I don't know, man. It looks like an arduous two minutes. Tough, bro. Well, I mean, if it's two minutes and then I'm, I don't know if I would want wings. I don't want wings.

But if I will want wings if I could hide the wings. If I could. Like Angel? Like Angel can. Like Angel could hide the wings. No, but he had to wear trench coats. Yeah. And then when he got the metal wings.

That's what he could hide him. Yeah. So you want metal wings. Metal wings would be tough. The first angel couldn't hide his wings. No. It was when he was our angel. Am I, like the first angel,

Worthington couldn't hide his wings when he was angel, right? I don't know if I saw him ahead and be honest. Oh, I know. No. No. Right. You know, we got to take that X-Men crown away from him. No, no, no, no.

That's. You know, it is. Exactly. You should have just lied. You should have just lied and been wrong because the worst answer you could give. I don't know, sir, you have been fucking the ex-man nigger for the whole fucking thing. The worst thing you could say is, I don't know. You act like I can't edit this out. Like, it's going in the pot.

This stays. I have the cut. What are you talking about? We'll see. Well, if the pod comes out and it's not in the pod, you will get cut. It's a joke. I like the snow leopard. Nobody here can fucking fire a turn.

All right. Oh. This got a redundant, but biggest what the fuck moment. Hmm. I mean, for me, it's still, uh, Glinda and Alphabet being friends in the thing. Because at that moment in the theater, it's like 10 o'clock on a Friday night. I'm like, hey, hey, stop, stop this. Do not cease this.

Stop playing. Y'all should not be. y'all should not be friends. And then popular habits. I'm like, actually, this is nice. I love this. It was the silent crumpin for me. I did not know what was going on for like the first 30 seconds.

I didn't either. Because I thought there was going to be like music that was going to start coming in. And I kept waiting and I was like, did I mute my teeth? Like, there's just, there's no. We're just, I was like, oh, no, they just. Mine was Morrible's villain turn. I, like, I was like, God damn. Not good.

What? What? Moribals villain turn? Yeah. Oh, but, well, no. Oh, my God. I was like, we know the wizard ain't him. So, like, so, so like when she's like, oh, I can get you with the wizard, I'm like,

does she know about the wizard? But then when she's like, I can take you to the wizard, I'm like, yeah, she fucked up. It's not. Yeah, it's not. I can see that. I just, maybe I'm just so into Michelle Yo right now, just coming off, just watching her go from what she did and everything everywhere. Everything everywhere.

And then watch her ruin her legacy in this movie by being a jerk towards my new favorite person. You know, Michelle Yo's great It is also crazy that it's like Alfabal really was just kind of like a walk-on Yeah, like she's like, hey yo, full ride She's living with you now They really are just giving away scholarships like that

Honestly, if I was Glenn, I'd be like Crenshaw not living, she, nah, fuck all that shit Yeah, you're not into it? Share in my room? You make her go live with a bear? Hey, her daddy already did it like Wow Yeah!

What? Honestly, and I think this would have been more realistic. It would be so funny if, like, every single time Elfable was eaten, she just had, like, a pot of honey. Yeah, because she's... Does she really just get some bear stuff? She's from bears.

Winnie the Pooh? She's like, she's like, she's with Fero. She's like, she's with Fero in the forest, and she's like, I'm gonna go get something to eat. He's like, where? And she's a by pawn. Ketching. She got a bastard.

That's a movie that out. That's a part. And then... She has a bear caught. She was like, Hey, he's saying they're like, what the F-N-A-L-FRIEEU-LFELB, man, we're hanging out for Christmas, where you at?

I got to hibernate, man. I got to have three months. I got to get three times by waiting and then bury myself under a tree. Yeah, I'll see you all later, man. That's a rose. All right. Are you time for the midnight meter? I'm ready.

All right, guys, you all know what the midnight meter is? One to 12, one being terrible. 10 being amazing great 11 12 absolute game changers who wants to go first i'm giving wicked part one a one 11 11 11 all right i'm giving wicked part one and 11 okay and let me tell you why can't give it a 12 however what does the movie not have it has a star-making King movie turn from Ariana Grande $709 million

at the box office. It has a cultural cachet. Really, only second this year to Dune. Only second this year to Dune in terms of a cultural, besides, you know, it ends with us. That's a whole bunch of bullshit. But like,

there was no need for that. That's the name. What you mean? Honestly, next episode, the boys review it ends with us. Absolutely not. We know what we're doing Wednesday. That's why? Why wouldn't we do?

Are we going to wear florals? Yeah, we should, we would. Hey, people tell us if you want us to do it in. No. No, I don't want to do that. Why? It's ongoing, let's the, it's ongoing litigation. Stop with the, bullshit.

It's not a word. I'm serious, guys. There's a lawsuit going on. You guys, you guys, I'm not. Wait, I'm not even fucking joking. What are you talking about? I'm not even fucking joking anymore. Stop!

With the woke bullshit. You want to get deposed? Okay. Like, it's a movie that came out and we can do it. The controversy will only make it better. No, no, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I want to work from home on Zoom.

Here's my fucking... It's over, you guys, it's over. Trump outlawed the EEOC. yesterday. So fucking muscles off the fucking hot dog. Okay, we can do whatever we want.

Oh my God. You guys are gonna drive me crazy, bro. I'm gonna go insane. We can't do that, but we can't talk about it. We can't talk about it. Can't talk about it.

Who are we gonna offend? They fucked over. It's not offending. It's active litigation, man. I don't got the lawyers you got. Yeah, that's true. Oh, my goodness.

Jami? Midnight meter? I got to give it 11 I got to give 11 Again I wasn't really locked in To this at all But then Living in theater I was

I can't wait for more I think my main problem With the whole movie is They call it Wicked Part 1 But then they call it a sequel For Good And it's just like Pick a theme

Either it's Wicked Part 1 Or in Part 2 Or it's wicked And then Wicked 4 Good Don't confuse me I'm off the part 1 part 2's I like the like Just do Wicked

Wicked too Thank you Sure Just keep it pushing Because now they're doing that With Mission Impossible It went from Dead Reckoning Part 1

And that was like Mission Impossible To final Whatever bullshit Like But nah This movie had Had everything You know

To your point Ariana Grande Had a star turn C3 Revo was amazing We talked about Jonathan Bailey Think the cast

The music Even though it didn't look How you probably Like wanting it to look I think this movie did what it set out to do and then some.

So for that I gotta give it a 11. I'm giving it a 9. Everything that we said, we loved it. I wouldn't say that I was like over the moon after the fact. And I think after seeing it again, like I just appreciate it so much more. But again, I still see some flaws.

I still see some things that like I wouldn't necessarily have done were this my movie. But again, like all of these things are great. It's still a fantastic film. I wouldn't have done if it were my movie. Yeah. I love being a podcaster.

John Chu's like, shut your white ass. Shut the fuck up. Hey. Hey. Shut up. John Shoes like putting a gun at the screen. That's not what I would have done. That's not what I would have done.

Shut up, bitch. Can we burn cigarettes on people now? All right. Here we go. This is the one that they all been waiting for. Here we go. Drop the hammer, Chuck. Three.

No, I got to say. It's a new positive P. It's a new year. Just fucking say it. I'm going to have to give Wiki part one a strong, strong eight. Okay. A strong, strong eight. Okay.

A tremendous showing for you, Charles. What? I feel like an A's, no, no, no. No, no. I mean, it's low, but it's so fucking high for you. No, no. It's a, that's a result. I like the movie a lot.

The Charles Van quotient is I think either 2.5 or probably 2.5 or 3. It's probably around there. Yeah, it's around there. 2.5 or 3. So 8 for Van, 5 for Charles. Yes. 5 for Van, 2 for Charles. Like, yeah, we can see the math.

Yeah, usually the sliding scale. 6 for Van, Charles didn't watch. Right, anything lower than a 6th on. Right. Unless it's a Vendom movie, then he absolutely watched it. Yeah, the coefficient is just, He ended up being right about the venom movies, didn't you know.

Not really. I don't like it. I don't like them. Yaddy yada broken clocks. You didn't like bad journalism? Nah. I love bad journalism. It's funny because it sucks.

I think that if they should release Venom, let their be carnage on DVD, like physical copies, they probably already did, but they should release a special bonus edition called Venom, colon, that's bad journalism. That's bad journalism.

That's bad journalism. Eddie, that's bad journalism. Okay, so what if we did a mini draft? A mini draft, doesn't have to be a whole episode of the best lines in fandom. Oh, God. The best lines? The best lines in. Are we going for iconic or are we going for funny?

Like, do we have categories? We should do categories. Funny, funny, impactful. What the fuck? But just the best lines because you got to, you got to, you got to, you. You got iconic lines like Avengers As symbol. I am Iron Man. You got a kind of Luke.

No, I am your father. But where does, where does a line like what is fucking Bruce say? To who? Oh, you lied to me. You lied to me. Cemetery. That's the funniest thing I've ever seen.

Why so serious? Why so serious? Every single Bayline. You know, you are the fellowship of the ring. bang? Like, I, I'm Batman. Like, we should do the best, we should do a draft of the best lines. The best quotes.

Best quotes. Best quotes. Best quotes. Best quotes in fandom. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm going to be honest with you. That's bad journalism.

It's up there. It's up there. All three event of movies are worth it if that happens. Okay. So, Midnight Meter. That's a wrap. of one of the best podcast we've done in a long time.

Program reminders this Friday House of ours coming with House of Recommends episode featuring special guests. Those special guests are going to be Damon Lindohoff. Oh. Jonathan Majors and Bo DeMail. Also next week, Ring Reverse Recommends is back

as well as more Midnight Boys. It's right. More Midnight boys we're going to do next week. It's going to be fantastic. We have a big show plan. Oh, we have a gigantic show. Really big shoes. Let's not, but here's the thing. Let's keep it a secret.

I want the fans, like, let's keep it a secret. We're doing something special. We're doing something special next week for you guys. You guys don't get to know until you tune in and you watch. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe and tune in and watch the shit on YouTube. Okay.

Alea's working very hard on all things YouTube. Alaya hit me up a couple of days ago. She was like, oh, man, let me talk to you for a second. Just like that. I was like, what's up, Alleya? She was like, what do you think about niggas on you? YouTube, man. She said that word for word, bar for bar.

Word. She said my niggas on the YouTube, man. Because, you know, I think these punk-ass niggas niggas need to get on the YouTube and, you know, I bang my set. And so... I think my set. For sure, yeah. So, watch the...

That's canon. Producers are Aalaya, bang my set. And that's on four. B-S-S-S-in-erous. Jonathan... Don't know X-Men. Don't know X-Men? Curf?

Hell, fuck y'all. First of all, don't do it. Don't know. It's Jonathan X-Men, Kermann, but it's an E-X. Ooh, X-Man. X-Man. X-Man. X-Man, Kermah.

Let you guys all down. Honestly, we might have to take the X-Men draft one away from him after that shit. Might have to take one way. No, don't do that. Yeah, don't do that. Y'all have a lot right now? That's kidding.

I got my win. Nope. Don't do that. It's a recon. The thing with the X-Men draft was that you completely embarrassed the men boys here. Like, you really fucked over. over them, particularly Jemey.

But now when we look at it, we have to kind of take it back. Because it's like Reggie Bush's Hismus. It's like Reggie Bush's Hizman. You got a, you got to, you got a... Wow. Because there are a lot of people that are going to be really, really upset with the fact that you might have to come back and win. We have to come up with some X-Men related thing

where Kerm can win it back. Oh, I got one. That's tough. Midnight Boys versus X-Men. Oh, Midnight Boys versus Jonathan Kermen X-Quiz quiz contest. Trivia contest. Like a Jeopardy type Something like that

Like a nope It's four on one Four on one That's crazy All right Let's get it It's four on one Because you have to be

Apocalypse So it's We're the X-Man It's four on one Arjuna Will do the questions Us against you And

This is for all the marvels If you don't If you You've injected Doubt Into your persona This is for all the marvels This will be like

If people figure out I was like 27 That's a rough 27 Yeah Jesus Who would be like Jesus Guys

Damn Hey I tell you I tell you guys this I'd rather that Than him cucking out all the time Stand up for yourself Stand up for yourself

I like it Um Uh Jami The Explaner A Dinner On Hashtack Killer Cousins On social

Don't remember that reference Now you made that reference I can't remember the things I've said And Additional production I can't I can't refer I can't be held responsible.

The watcher. Rang Gapal. Chuck, take us out. Steve loves to pander. That's wicked is a must. And I promise y'all, this week, it ends with us. Boo!

Things changed. Within me, something is not the same. I'm through. by the rules of someone else's game. Too late for second guessing, too late to go back to sleep. It's time to trust my instincts, close my eyes and leave

Defying gravity And you can pull me down Man, I wish we do the song Man, that'd be cool if we knew what we were singing. That's enough. Turn it off.