The Ringer-Verse - ‘Lanterns’ Episode 4 Instant Reactions | Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

The Boys return to recap yet another banger 'Lanterns' episode. The guys discuss the growing rift between Hal and John, question if the guardians can be racist, examine John’s Oedipus complex, and much more. Finally, they end the show with an update to their possible manhunter rankings. (0:00) Intro (3:23) Spoilers ahead (6:00) ‘Lanterns’ Episode 4 instant reactions (1:32:20) OutroHosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve AhlmanProducers: Devon Baroldi and Jamie YukichAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the Ringers' Nexus podcast feed for all things, fandom. We are Steve, the architect Alman. Host of RingerQuest, which is on the feed right now. RingQuest is going crazy. I'm going to be honest with you guys. We're going to get to the show quicker today. This is the only time I'm going to stop to kind of get into something.

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We had a video that was going crazy, and they tried to remove it for, like, guideline violations. Didn't give no excuses. Oh, did you take it to TikTok court? I took it to TikTok court, where I'm still waiting the decision, but we were going, we were going mega-virus. Which one was it?

It was the one where we were talking about how Jordan were doing the Wolf of Wall Street a bit and talk about how, like, he's killing, even in his, like, little minutes in episode three, how great he was. and after, man, I think had like, I think like a hundred. Black boys off our platform.

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On Friday, Button Mash gives their reactions to Wolverine. Got to bring up something real quick. What are we bringing up? I thought you wanted to get to the episode bastard. You're right. You're right. I'll save it. Ben, we see you. What? What did be? On today's episode, Ben, we see you.

Come on, man. We see you. Big Cull-Lenberg kind of put it down a little bit. On today's episode, we react to the fourth episode of Lanterns. And I'll say real quick right now, the response to this show is a boon for the ringer verse and for the nerd verse. Wow. What a show that we can coalesce around. We're having so much fun with Lantern.

In this episode is fantastic as well. Is this one of the first, it feels like one of the first times we've had a show where it's like it intersects with everything where it's like, oh, it's the nerd shit, but they also got a lot of black shit going on. And ballfuckers need to come right here. Kind of a discourse machine. To get the full perspective. That's because we weren't a while when watchmen was on. We went the same thing, but you're absolutely right. And kudos to the showrunners for being able to have a show that's accessible to a lot of people for different cultural reasons.

Okay. But before we get to Landers, we have to do a spoiler warning. Spoilers show, Wolverine Lanner, all kinds of things. Steve? We're getting ready to talk about you're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming.

To begin our reactions, though, we have to put you in the know. The only person that can do that is Charles. I actually forgot to do the Midnight Benefit today. Wow. So can you, can we do like a... Hello, Ringiverse fans. I regret to inform you that due to the initiation

of Deep Shaddle Protocol. This bit had to be edited out of the pod. I know. I'm just as disappointed as you are. Thanks as always for listening. And the Midnight Boys, Pugh, Poo, we'll get back to you shortly. Okay, you just fucking do the Manifest. All right, this is your Midnight Manifest for Landers episode four, directed by Gita.

That's it. Oh, you actually did. Right by Brian. I actually wrote the Manifest. I was beaten. Okay, okay. How visits the imprisoned Sinestro for information about the Manhunters during this conversation, Sinestro Stokes Fearing Jordan.

The former pilot admits that he knows John isn't his backup, but a replacement sent by the Guardians. Back in Rushville, John locates an underground bunker on the Macon Ranch and the duo make a plan to search the compound. Before embarking on the mission, the Guardian visits John at the motel. She tells Stewart that in order to become Green Lantern, he must stab how in the back by taking his ring away and saying the oath. John draws a digging machine that will help the duo make it to Macon's compound, and Hal gives his support it in the ring so he can manifest the object. But when the two lanterns get to the high-tech compound, they're ambushed by men with anti-lantern tech. Macon makes John draw his dong in captivity until Carrie arrives to save the odd couple.

So he arrives at the motel and has sex with John. Her walk of shame turns into a walk of death. When a satellite vaporizes her truck, John shows little emotion. Hal and John locate the maker of the satellite with the help of Carrie. They ambush a man they think is Hector Hammond, a classic big-headed green lantern villain. at a slaughterhouse. This Hector isn't Hammond, but an engineering student

meant to lead the lanterns to this location. Hector threatens to murder John's family and further ruptures the trust between the two lanterns with a recording of John bowed, bousing his mentor.

Howe uses the information he got from Sinesho to suss out that Hector isn't the Manhunter saving John's family. On the drive back to the motel, Howe figures out that John suspected

that Zoe's the manhunter and a reenactment of the pilot, Howe jumps out of a moving vehicle leaving his former partner to crash into a phone pole. That has been your very long Midnight Manifest. Gonna throw it back to you, Venn.

I feel like we got to start where the episode starts. Howe versus Sinestro. Two iconic heroes, villains. How do you feel like the show handled them? Okay. So this is very important scene in the show. Yep. Okay.

So Hal, with Sinestro, the veneer of Hal Jordan, totally gone. Yeah. Totally gone. Such a well-played scene by Kyle Chandler. When he's in front of Sanestro, You can tell that he does two things he doesn't do anyone else. Number one, he submits to Sanestro's authority ever so slightly. Every other time that he's being Hal Jordan, it seems very authentic.

When he does it with Sanestro, it seems forced. I'm just going to fucking leave you. No, you don't want to do that. You don't want to just leave him here and fly away and figure it out yourself. You want his help. You care about his opinion for whatever reason. and there's almost an energetic submission to him. And also, you see the beginnings of fear.

You think you pointed this out when we're off mic. Talk a little bit about what you said. I don't want to take your take. So what's been interesting and a lot of fans have noticed this is that if you notice the difference between Guysring and Howls Ring, Howes Ring has like a gold trim, but also they do a lot of close-ups in this episode where you realize it's starting to crack around the band.

And when Howe was having the conversation with Sinestro, not only do I agree with you, Sinestro was doing a very subtle thing where he was instilling this type of fear about Jordan and his place in the universe. And they almost, it felt like, Hal almost has like a Kobe to MJ relationship with Sinestro, where he respects him.

Obviously he was powerful. He was able to kill a guardian. This was his mentor who taught him so much. So to me, it's such rich storytelling that this is probably the only, at least Green Lantern or figure in the universe that can really poke how in the way that makes him not only afraid of the person he's supposed to be teaching, but of his place in this galaxy. Let me ask you guys something real quick. What type of person can tell you what to be afraid of? Who gives you your fears? Usually your parents.

Ha-ha. So we're coming off one episode. where we saw parents take fear away from a child and what that looks like. And we saw another one, there's one part where he asked him, he goes, like, is he fearless? And it's almost a throwaway line that Chandler goes, he may be. And when he says he may be that way, the seriousness in his face is like, this guy might actually be someone who could supplant me. But that scene is so important.

it's the beginning of a suspicion about the greatness of John Stewart but as kind of how Jordan is regarding him. But it's also the first time we see that there is a humanity to Jordan, that there are certain people in certain situations that they will be able to take advantage of. I mean, and what was also interesting is that Carrie says, I forget if it was in like the first or second episode, she talks about how lonely Hal is.

And we know that his dad, died. So it is this poetic thing where his father figure, his mentor, perhaps the only person in the universe, because he tells John later in the episode, don't get close to people, this is a very lonely job. It's very poetic that the only person in the universe that can really understand how right now is Sinestro, his father figure, who is locked away. And then the other person in John, he's pushing away. Like there is, the show is doing this very, very, interesting thing where the bravado of how

the bravado that Kyle Chandler's bring to this role is hiding something childish and nefarious and just very lonely and something broken yeah yeah there's an interesting level of layer to this because Sinestro kind of instructs

him to like lull Stewart into like a false sense of security of like okay fine play along with this yeah make him think that you're actually training him and feel comfort about it. And for the most part, we do get that because there is a level of cooperation throughout the entire episode. But the conversation that bookends this episode, like you said, like he kind of full on admits, at least, and I seem to believe it, that he admits that, yeah, you could have

every chance at being better at this than me. And like, you probably are going to be really, really good at it. And with that, he then crashes a car. And I think that that's a, like, that's a very interesting choice of like the level of vulnerability that John is willing to offer up to John and then immediately like undermine it or like smack like smack him in the head with a pole is very interesting and it's like a sort of familial bond of like acting out this level of insecurity that is instilled from Sinestro passing down to John and like I don't want to talk too much about the ending because it's fascinating the conversations that they have in the car but that was the biggest thing from Hal's perspective

that I saw. I think, like, for me, talking about, I mean, obviously, Hal and John's relationship is, like, the foundation, it's the crux of the show. And for the first time, we see them work together, and we find out, like, oh, these guys actually work together pretty well. Yeah. Right?

When they're not bickering or, like, well, not even, like, really hiding stuff, but just, like, doing their own thing. When they actually, like, put their minds to one singular goal, they could be really successful. The problem is, like, they've got so much other stuff going on. John, like him, like, needing, not needing to take the ring, but needing to earn the ring, right? He feels a personal sense of, I can't just take it from this guy. I need to be, it's got to be given to me.

What's wrong with you? Why are you the way you are? I feel like Chandler and Chandler Sprite, Chandler, Chandler, you take it. Yeah, I think you could take it. I think, yeah, I mean, absolutely think he could take it. I mean, first of all, you got to work up to it anyway. Yeah, you can't just start. No.

Yeah, it's like, you know, just. It's not like the industrial drill that he made from the, you know. You can't take that. Nobody can take that. I'm talking metaphors here. Dark side. Dark side can take the drill. Probably, you know.

Danos? After a while. But you got to train it. Right, yeah. You got to train it. You got to train it. But I know, if Danos couldn't take Ant Man up the booty, how could he take the drill? We don't know that.

We don't know that. We don't know that for sure. So you guys played along, by the way. This is what happens, though. You guys always go, oh, then. That's indeed. Yes, I am. I want to ask because you guys have brought up something interesting.

Is the league changing in front of Howe, not just with John, but when we think about the larger DC universe, I'm like, oh, Hal predates Superman. So he is very much like he's used to being like not around a bunch of superheroes. And now he finds a replacement that can make constructs from the inside out almost does not need the ring. And if we're looking at everything else that's happening probably around this time in the universe, he's like this, which is interesting. an old dog in a changing world. So I thought about this. I don't think he thinks in that regard. Okay.

So I think that that is what's happening to him, and that's what this show is cementing. And he is waking up to that in real time and we're seeing it. I don't think that's ever actually gone through his mind. Okay. Because I don't think he thinks broad enough, right? I don't think he thinks broadly enough about things like that. It almost felt like Sinestro had to make him, well, it didn't feel like this.

We watched it on screen. Sinestro had to make him in the front of his mind say what Stewart is, his replacement. He had to get that out of him because he's either fighting that that's deep down inside of him or he hadn't seen it yet. But now it's in the front of his mind. It was interesting to see how he acted throughout the rest of this episode after he had to admit that, right?

I'm going to bring up a scene from a movie that some people might have seen. Some people might not have seen. The last thing I'll say about this particular scene between Hal and that show. Did you guys ever see an actual movie called Manhunter? Who's in that? Okay. So Michael Mann made this film. Right.

And in this film, this film is William Peterson. And then you have Brian Cox as Hannibal Lecter. Okay. So this movie was remade into Red Dragon. Yeah. Where what's the character? Somebody's screaming out back there. What's the character that is played?

It's also in the movie, it's also in the show Hannibal. Right. It's not Hannibal himself. It's like the other mad serial killer, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The character that William Peterson is playing, he plays in the show Hannibal, that character also exists.

Special Agent. Yeah, the cop. Huh? You're talking about the cop who's in the books. The cop. Will Graham. Like, Will Graham. Will Graham is the character that is in,

that, when Norton plays them in, in Red Dragon, and then in Manhunter, it's, it's what's his face and then, you know, whatever, whatever.

If you watch that scene, in Manhunter specifically, they've redone this scene a couple of times. But if you watch this scene, in Manhunter specifically, when Graham has to go and talk to Hannibal Lecter, it's weird now when you watch it, because it's a young,

Logan Roy playing Hannibal Lecter. That'd be awesome. But when you go and you watch the scene now, there's this way that Graham has to soften himself because he needs Lector's cooperation because he's at the limit of what his mind can do. Lector is a genius. He's brilliant and he knows everything.

But there's also this tension between them because Graham put Lector behind bars. I really wonder, if I had one of the writers, here if they use that scene to model this scene between Halis and Nestro, because it is the same thing. He has to sit there with the guy behind bars who he knows has more information than him, who he knows has more angles in his head than him, but who he put there. So there's this tension between them, but he still leaves with information that makes it in this situation in Manhunter,

he's trying to catch the tooth fairy. But in this situation, he has more information about are the rings getting out? Are the rings getting out? of control or at least the people who wield them. Because what's interesting if you look at the lineage is that the guardians are afraid of Sinestro because he was powerful enough to kill one of them. Howe obviously is more powerful than Sanestro because he took Sinestro down. And now Hal is like the guy that's trying to replace me, damn near does not even need this ring.

And it's like, I was like, oh, are the guardians realizing like similar to the Manhunter the lanterns in the rings, and the people who wield them are something that we just cannot control at this way. What the guardians are trying to do is bring in replacement players so they can reset the market of the league. Like in 1988,

the NFL brought in replacement players, and people still went to the games. And after that, the Players Association kind of knew how they could get out of it, right? Yeah. Like what they knew what their limits are, what their ceilings were. In this situation, the guardians are trying to prove that we don't actually need the ring to make a decision.

We can make a decision. And because your lifespans are so short, we can make the green lanterns that we want. And if they do that and if they can do that, they've reset the power dynamic of the Green Lantern core. They'll never have another Green Lantern like Hal Jordan again, somebody that they can't control. Yeah, how is, well, interesting, like, I don't want to get too far away from your Sinatra point. because it kind of like, undergirds the whole episode, obviously. But when he talks about you can't get too close to anybody, you can't love anybody. He's also talking about Sinestra.

That was his boy. They brought him up. And so when he betrays, he betrays the Guardians, betrays the Green Lantern Corps, he's like, and he had to take him down. He's like, yo, I really don't have anybody. There's nobody in my life I can trust. He can't even trust John. He can't, like, his entire life is, like, fundamental to that thought, to that thought. So, yeah, like, I can understand why how it's kind of, how sucks.

But I understand how you become that way when you can't love anybody, you can't trust anybody. You are all alone. Now, we go straight from this back to John. We see John, he wants to buy a scope. His parents are calling the whole nine. We go straight from this back to John. Now that you've seen this scene, when you first saw Stewart again in this episode, because he has a lot of awesome scenes leading up to the first time that they go,

How did you feel seeing Stuart now knowing that the conversation that he had had with the Guardians, like all of this stuff? Seeing everything, what's your feelings on Stewart now after the conversation with Sinestro and you know what the guardians told him about taking the ring? Well, what makes Stewart so fascinating now in the way Aaron Pierre is playing him and he even brings up this after him and Zoe they've slept together that like everyone's lying to me. you have his parents who are calling him the entire episode trying to get to him. So obviously the Guardians are still conversating with his parents and he doesn't know how much he can trust them or how overbearing they are.

He can't really trust the Guardians. He can't trust how. And then after episode three, obviously they foregrounded how much this show is about race. So it's very funny when he walks through to get the scope. Oh, man. And he drops the... money down, how much where I'm like, oh, Aaron Pierre is playing his loneliness different

than How's. And Howe's loneliness is very much like, I'm going to be Tom Cruise, Mr. Maverick, like, da-da-da-da. Watching, I understood John Stewart's character a lot more where I'm like, oh, he's truly alone. Or at least, like, as a black man, as a Green Lantern, as just someone in Rushville, it's mission accomplishment and he does not necessarily. have time to really slow down and be like, what the fuck is happening?

Right. And it makes like a feedback loop of distrust between Hal and John specifically because while Hal doesn't have anybody backing him and he feels like everybody is against him, he feels like, John feels like all the people that are supposedly rooting for him, clearly have ulterior motives just behind his ascension. Yeah. And it's like, that's the more fascinating thing because like that's just going to escalate every single episode until we hit a breaking point. I mean, it's really interesting, especially given the conversation I last look about raising versus programming, and you could make the argument that they programmed him too well,

right? Because the guardians want him to take the ring from how. They're like, hey, man, that guy kind of wilding. It's really not. You got to go take the ring, do the oath, whatever. But John doesn't feel like he should take the ring, he should get the ring like that. John feels he should, instead of taking it, he should earn. Despite what he tells the guardian in the room, yeah, man, he's sorry, he's old, I'm next up, I'm him.

He doesn't want to take it. He still wants it to be given to him. He still wants to earn it. Is that, all right, if we're getting spicy, because I could tell there were maybe there were some black people in the room where I was just like, it is very interesting that John, that John doesn't want to have to take the ring from how and do it in that type of deceptive way. Because I'm like, that is very true to the African-American experience, where it's like, instead of getting the ring because you deserve it and the right way to go about it, you almost, there has to be subterfuge. There has to be like, I have to overprove myself.

I have to do all these other fucking things just to get to the starting line. And I was like, oh, that's fascinating. Man, when I saw that, this is what I thought about. You are absolutely right. So if we go back to the programming thing, I'm not going to do a long preamble because I want to stay in the moment of what you just said. But actually, I'll come back to that. Let me stay in the moment of what you just said.

He doesn't want to do that because there's an inherent, entrenched self-morality code that exists that is a part of the Black experience. We hold each other, even if we can't be hyper-consistent in all the time, to a standard that's based in community. give you an example of something. You don't ever hear like white record executives have to answer questions

about bad contracts that they put artists in. Like nobody asked these questions to Jimmy Avine. Nobody asked these questions to like Tommy Motola, like Clive Dave. Nobody asks these questions.

But if you're some of, if you're a black mogul, if you're a master P, you know, if you're Dane. Birdman. If you're a bird man, the black community is going to ask you why

did you put someone in a contract that we believed to be predatory? How could you do this to one of your own? How did you do this to one of your own, right? But there's something beyond that, too. There starts to be a sense of we really not trying to dirty nobody. He doesn't want to get the rain that way because that's against his cultural tradition. His cultural tradition is not take advantage of the first fucking opportunity that you see and do something when someone's not right and just pounce on them.

And still, that's not the cultural tradition of morality that we've been raised with, that we've been told is the right way to do something. And we are, no matter what people try to say and lie about the community that I come from, that people will look at you and be like, yo, you're wrong. And he is not interested in that. And the reason why it's so interesting right now is because he's, we're watching him in this episode, like break the programming. He disobeys his parents.

He disobeys the guards. the Guardians. And that comes off something that I missed in the last episode. Why did he say that he wanted to shoot the apple off of his mother's head? Because she lied to him.

Oh, yeah, yeah. She lied. Like, the thing that made him go, no, you know what? You stand under there is because he realized the same way you feel about your parents

when you realize Santa Claus ain't real. Why did you tell me this all of these years? Like, what's you want? And then after that, you go, okay, well,

what else is out here that you told me that's not for real? Now you have a different relationship to them. That like little understandings of the glitches in the programming or rearing or whatever you want to call it is the reason why you go seek the truth for yourself because you start to understand that what you've been giving might not work for you. It might not even be true. And I think he's in this episode, if you look around, he's operating outside of the chain of command a couple of times.

And it gets him more relaxed because this episode has a lot of moments of levity. It's not a doubt. It led me between John and Hal that I found like amazing actually. Like the little joke about the weenie and the amounts of times that they were like kind of like staring at each other about how weird like the slaughterhouse was and all of that. Like there's a lot of funny things that happen when Hal and John are actually legitimately bonding or at least what it seems like that because we don't know if like at least I didn't clock whether or not Hal has that level of duplicity in him to actually low him into a sense of security. Proclamation. Right. Proclamation.

You can't just say it. You can't just say. Proclamation right now. I declare bankruptcy. That's what you wish on me, niggins. No, no, no. It's the joke.

It's like you can't just say I declare bankrupt. Oh, my God. That's not. No, you watch the office. White guy makes an office joke. I get it. I get it. Proclamation.

Aaron Pierre will one day be the biggest star in the world. Oh, for sure. I can see that. Proclamation. Aaron Pierre will one day be the biggest star in the world. And I'll tell you. you why. It's what Steve is talking about. When they're sitting on a water tower and he makes the joke, I was going to kill the vibe at Disneyland. Air Pierre has a way of softening his face,

like changing his gaze, almost energetically morphing into a scene to where you understood that he was trying to tell a joke and you didn't even have to laugh. It made you feel good. And even the way Chandler plays off of him, the way how did you just make a joke? Did you just make a joke? joke. Like, he has this thing that he can do, the subtlety that he operates with in this role of being this army guy. It's just very, very rare that an actor has that emotional

and energetic control over the characters that they're playing. He's amazing. And what I thought was interesting, because if you start from the beginning of the episode where John puts the money down, that choice informs everything else that happens in the episode because what he is saying is not only could I afford the gun, I can afford the scope, I could probably afford everything in here.

Every single time he is in a scene with anyone else, it is like, what's he doing to How? Oh, that's the weenie. This is how I learned it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When they're in the motel with Carrie, he's like, this is a setup, this is why blah, blah, blah, blah, we're walking into this. Even when Hal gives him the ring and he makes the construct from the inside out, it is John proving at every single point

why would I have to steal the ring? I've done everything and I have all the skills. Like my bank account is fucking full. Why would I ever have to steal my way into this? I'm that good at it. And it's like, that's why I also think Kyle Chandler is playing something interesting

where his jealousy isn't really jealousy of John anymore. There starts to be a recognition where it's like, oh, there's someone else like me in the universe who's this good. He's starting to respect him. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like he's like he's, he's starting to respect him.

He's starting to see that number one, he is qualified. It's not just that the guardians want to want to howl Jordan replacement. This is a bad motherfucker. Yeah. He's smart. He's capable. He's all of those things. I don't want to get, I don't want to get to like get to like the ending yet.

I know we got some other stuff to talk about. But that, man, you hit it right on the head, bro. The way Kyle Chandler threw. through this episode, like, starts to lick at John in a different light. Despite the conversation he had with Senestro. Yeah. Right?

Sinestro is trying, like, you got to, look, if you're not going to kill him, you got to, we got to undermine him, right? Turn, find the Manhunter, bring him to Oa, and disgrace John in the process. And he doesn't do that. They go out, they find the weenie, they get off the compound,

they go to the slaughterhouse. All the while, you, they're having the conversation like in the car, for example. And he's like, hey man, like, you're, hey man, you're kind of good at this, bro. Like, that was awesome. You're cooking right now. I appreciate that.

And, like, it just makes the ending hit so much harder throughout everything. Well, I don't want, again, I don't want to, like, we, that's so much, we have so much to talk about. But that part, like, the entire thing. It was like, just give me the ring when we go in the slaughterhouse. He's like, no. But I respect what you did just there. Hey, I respect that.

You could. So, Ken, this, I bumped up against this, when. And they finally get to Macon's compound, this show is jumping through a lot of fucking hoops for them not to use the ring. They're like, they got black smoke. They can't use the ring. I'm like, hey, yo, bro, like. So I guess, so I have a question.

I wonder why. So is it because of budgetary constraints to the show and all that stuff like that? They don't want to do the whole thing? Or is it because the ring itself is too convenient of a narrative get out of jail free card. Like the ring honestly could solve most of the problems that exist. Right. And do they want to put these guys in a position

where they have to use their human skills more than just like the... I guess this one was, that moment was I tripped up on because I was like, we still have not situated the Green Lantern Ring in this world. So I'm like, how does it?

Like I know like you can say Manhunters, but I'm like, he's equipped all of these people in here with anti-green lantern tech, like that is something that if true, why is he even making like going they're like, oh, all the green lanterns

will come. I'm like, you guys have smoke that makes their rings useless. Right. Like, you're one, that would make you one of the most dangerous people in the DC universe if this is still the universe where the green lantern ring is the greatest weapon that they have. Jumby? Right.

Answer his fucking question. You'd explain it? You'd explain Like, you know what I'm saying? Like answers. Because in the past, you know, all you needed is to wear something yellow and then that would or would. Right. Or would, right? Now, I just imagine that, I think it's column A, column B, right?

Budget, you know. I literally watched a scene of in Superman when the Justice Gang showed for the first time and guys doing like the whole thing. I'm sure that costs a bunch of bread, right? And so can't really do that. A and B, I think there is a level of, it is a get out of jail free card. So ultimately what you want to do is show that they are like John and how, or John specifically, can get by without using the ring, right?

And so you put them in a situation where they can't use it all the time. Therefore, they show their skills without the ring. And then once they start wielding it, you're like, yeah, this, obviously this is a guy. I do like, there is a little bit of Surve Dracula in that. Right. But it's still, like, it still means. Would you guys, though, if you're captured. by making, are you drawing the dawn?

Gotta draw the dog, dude. I'm gonna make it like, I'm gonna make a real teensy. You gotta, I don't care what he's actually got. You gotta be anatomically accurate. Yeah, you can't be a hate. Respect the process. Is that, I mean, it's no reason to draw that man's to be small if it's not small.

That tells me. I mean, like, if then, look, right. You gotta think about it. I'll put a clown nose there. If anything, I'll, I'll look out for you. You give him a couple inches? Yeah, if anything, it's like, I'm not going to drug. Because, you know, sometimes.

I went to the Gedi Museum. We all went to the Gettie Museum. getting museum and you look at it and it's like a sculpture of mercury he's got the hat on the whole deal. They were doing those guys any favors.

And you're like, this key can't be a but this eye can tell Lincoln is freaky. He got all these motherfuckers in there he's like y'all all seeing the meat. And I'm like, if I'm one of the soldiers,

I'm like, hey boss. Only person who was freaked out was half and his daughter and be like that put your dick away. Hold on for a second though. But why, bro? Why? Why?

I generally, who I have, I don't want to see my employer Me. Yeah, I think it's a bit more of an HR thing. Okay, but here's a deal, though. Like, if you're in the NFL. All right.

Right. And you're playing in the, in the fucking game, you shower, see people missing? Yeah, but that's everybody's meat. Not just one person's meat. But here's the thing. If I'm like at the gym, I'm in the locker room, I'm like, that's a place where I'm like,

you're probably going to see some meat. Yeah. Like, if I'm just... You can't get used to it, though. What are you talking about? Man, Equinox Sports Club, L.A. Sepovita. Meat show.

That's the meat. Ray, bro. And I get it, it's the locker room. It's the locker room. It's the locker room. But that's the... All right, while we're here, let's just get it out. I'm going to be... Is the man... Is the Manhunter box fire? Because John

went back for seconds. Jesus. I mean, after he knew he was a manhunter. Okay, so we're off the meat. We're off the meat. We're in the corner. We are in midnight... Okay. Midnight corner. No bullshit. I think that this is actually like a really good chance to talk about, like, in a serious way. Talk about, like,

John's experience with intimacy and why it actually makes him afraid Well, he's a robot and of course He would like to fuck on a robot Right, but no, not even that It's the fact that like when he has A gun pointed at her For way too longer than

It should have been You could actually see that he's afraid Of what might happen If he puts that gun down And it's the one thing that his parents Really couldn't teach him He put the gun down Is to be like intimate and vulnerable

With somebody and still feel safe So here's the deal though The most interesting thing about all of this to me is that at the end of the episode we are led to believe that he knows that she's the manhunter. He's fucking her anyway. Would you not?

Okay, so if you had a chance to fuck a robot, would you be like, no? Not just any robot. This is a question that y'all will have to answer pretty soon. This is a question y'all got to answer. This is a question y'all going to answer pretty soon. Sam Altman's somewhere going, oh my

God. Right. And then Robo Chris Hanson shows up. Yeah. So, so, um, you see how this look. How did Robo Chris Hansen show up? That's funny. Bro. It's funny. That's actually hilarious. It's funny. Big nightlife. Well, in the future, the Chris Hansen is actually coming in there because you fucking robots. Right. Like, you got Mike hard motor oil. Like, you know what He said you got like, he said, it says here, one, one, one. Zero. Oh, my God. Is this what it looks like?

Sit down. Don't go anywhere. There's a robot here. You want you breach my data. What did you mean by that? But look, so he knows that she's a robot. Yeah. And he knows that she's a manhunter.

At some point, and he's still having sex with her. Now, let's talk about what we know about manhunters. He doesn't know everything. Obviously, Hal doesn't know everything. He's getting information from Sinestro. But what you. do know is that these are synthetic beings

that have been around for a very, very long time that are immensely powerful and inherently dangerous. What does it say about John Stewart that he suspects strongly or knows that Zoe

is one of them and it doesn't stop him from having sex with her? And this is a very Lindelof-type move to Steve's point. You know, what did we see last episode, there's a very edipus, complex reading of this, where it's

like he holds the gun against his bob, it shoots the apple, and he obviously gets turned on by holding a mother figure at gunpoint and they having sex with her. There's a lot going on. Is that how I read that?

Wait. You're allowed to read it like that. I'm just like, if that's really, I don't know if that's the read, again, you can read it. Hold on, wait a second. But that's... Zoe, Zoe, in this, I'm just going to be honest,

I don't want to go too far down the Oedipus hole. Right. But Zoe in this is played... She's an older lady than John Stewart is. Right. And if you watch the relationship that was reflected in three,

and now, like, when she's leaving, she tells John in the first episode, or maybe the second, can remember the first one, right? Very directly, you want to walk me to tell you. my truck, like, come out here. They don't change names, he's almost,

it's almost as if in that situation, he's kind of following orders a little bit. Like, just a little, a little bit. This is not a bad read. I'm not, I'm off the. Nobody is saying it's a bad read. It's a tough look for John. But that's what I'm saying.

I'm like, there's a level of, like, non-training that he has when it comes to intimacy that, like, is very clearly, like, if he is, like, attracted to a woman or has feelings for somebody, even if he just mildly likes somebody, that's not in his programming from the previous episode.

That's not part of his life. So they taught him, they taught him to be fearless, but they didn't tell him about how to talk to women. It kind of makes sense. The birds and the bees. That's interesting about whether or not

they did or if they didn't, because there is a certain amount of fear that goes into those types of understanding. You're being vulnerable with somebody. But they probably had to take that fear from them too. Hey, man, don't be scared of the holes, bro. Are you going up there?

You got to put you shit. We're not saying the H word anymore. Hold on. Y'all have said scaring the hose all the time. I know, but we're trying to be better. We have any more not fair now. I think that's the entire time. I hope that the entire audience is aware of them.

Get at me when I do it. Okay, look, let's stay on the door. Are the lights not bright this week? They, they, pretty bright. The lights is bright right now is they have a fucking God around this. We want to be in publications for good weeks.

The lights are just all right y'all play. Y'all playing. I'm not playing, man. Hey, hey, not playing.

Not like, okay, let's stay on this situation. Let's talk about the end scene before Zoe gets fucking zapped. All right? Let's talk about the end scene. He's,

everybody's lying to me. Everybody. Everybody. The guardians, his parents. Parents, you. This is an echo of when his mother lied about the birds. Of course.

And then he took a little bit of his power back from her by making her scared or seeing if she was scared, testing her fear. And this is what has to happen to John. John has to see that people, they're not respecting the chain and command. They're not being consistent for his programming the break. And I feel like that's what happened.

Didn't they see that's what happened in the show. Was it a miscalculation on his part where I'm like, yo, you pulled a future, your old girl got zapped, and he was like, happens. Like, if I'm, if I'm how, like, how rightfully so is like, God damn, I didn't think you were that cold. Well, I think, again, it speaks to like the emotional conditioning of like, okay, well, that's a thing that I'm either distracted by or afraid of that is no longer here. I don't think that. I legitimately think he's trying to fight that because again, in the end scene of the car, he's trying to fight the fact that he actually liked her. I think that's what it is, though, really, because I think what it actually is, is Hal is just that good.

Like, that's what it comes down to for me. It's how it's just that good. Because how I was like, man, I was trying to solve it, but this, what ultimately comes to the conclusion is, like, you was lying to me. Like, that's what it is. That you got, you got caught up. Like, that's ultimately what it all came down to.

And we can't really work like that if that's how you're going to. Got him out of character. But is Zoe really... I don't think he was sad. Is Zoe really a manhunter? Or is this underlying what we were saying in earlier episodes that there's a bunch of manhunters at this point? I think it speaks to that theory a lot.

Probably speaks to the theory that there's a bunch of manhunters. I wonder if John is down the road of the mini manhunters theory. If he's believing that she's a manhunter, but that her being a manhunter isn't that singular in this particular place where they are. because after she is zapped everything they were talking about about like how he starts acting so odd he becomes a little bit reserved

he's in the room he's holding back from them number one he already knows this he's holding back from them he they're solving the crime which was even when I was watching I was like god damn these niggas is like fucking Sherlock Holmes in this bitch yeah they got we got pulled up NDAs from like 10 dummy corporation

We didn't talk about it. We talk about her getting blown up from the sub-upper laser. But again, show's cooking. Hey, where'd that come from? Up there, just point. Boom. No, God.

35 degrees. Go on, man. Just point. 45 degrees. Just point. Boom. Gone. Gone.

Found the satellite, brought it back down. And then we go on this really interesting journey from this part in the show to where they have to, you know, reassemble the satellite, figure out where the satellite came from, who licensed the satellite. All things that whoever would have put that satellite in the sky would know,

that would be very easy, very easy for an investigative agency to do. Yeah. They would have to know that. Then we get to the point that they don't really care because they wanted to point to one person. All of this is doing more work between the characters than it is between the actual story. They just want to get us to the point that they get us to at the end of the episode. I'm still not really convinced at how, quote, unquote, good the mystery of this show is because it kind of just, it, like, It's not kind of like on the rails, but it really doesn't have like that level of, I mean, we'll see maybe later on in the season.

But like, I'm not really seeing a level of like red herrings or duplicity come. It's just more of like, all right, we're down this path. We solve this problem. Here's the next clue. We're, we solve this problem. It's very power broker coded to me. I think the mystery. I cannot disagree more.

Devastatingly well executed. You think so? You have, I have no clue what's going on. Right. Like, no clue what's happening. By the way, Zoe could be the manhunter. Let's say Zoe is the Manhunter. Or a Man Hunter.

A Man Hunter. That might not even be the big question of the season. I have no clue what's happening. We still don't know if that's actually John, or Hal who's dead at the end, who killed him, who the manhunter is, who the benefactor. Like, there's so much happening to a point where I am confused sometimes while I'm watching it. And it's not an issue.

It's not like, oh, man, this show's not doing a great job explaining it or threading me through this mystery. It's more like, oh my gosh, so much is happening, but this world is so well-designed, well-built, that these mysteries, as much as they are intertwined, I'm still locked in despite the fact that I don't know what is happening. I guess I'm more so on the side of, because I'm so interested in, like, John and Howell's relationship

and Sinestro and Carrie and all of that, the mystery part of this isn't the thing that's key. Like, if this, it was obviously influenced by True Detective. True Detective is something when I watched that besides the performances was like, what the fuck is happening? Who's behind all this crazy shit?

The mystery was driving that. This mystery is I'm just like, oh, it's cool. Like we're getting to the final boss. Yeah, like it's a buddy, it's more, I'm more interested in the buddy cop dynamic in this show. I think the good thing about like whether or not the mystery might be hitting for me

is the fact that like we're all staying present in the moment of the show and not really like obviously we have a lot of theories, we have a lot of things that could be happening. But like we are, entranced with what is happening right now and not game theorying out like

10 episodes ahead. But I think that's why the show's so incredible because it's doing both things. Right. At least for me, you have the mystery element that I'm enjoying and you have the buddy cop dynamic like absolutely works. I think that's why the show is operating at such a high level right now. So now by the time we get to the slaughterhouse

we are in full weird fucking what's happening mode. The tone of it, it's an incredibly clean slaughterhouse with people acting weird. The characters do something that I always love in scenes like that where they call out how weird things are. They say

hey, enough of these weird ass people. We watch that poor fucking cow. Whoever wrote that was a vegan. Because when you have to watch how your snakes are made. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants to see it. Man, I don't care. You don't give a fuck. Now, let me ask you guys you guys a question. Shut up, bitch. Get some brisket, man. Let me ask you guys. Let me ask you guys a question. We're not going to all eat that

in New York. In the scene where the gentleman is sitting there Is his name Hector? Hector. They say he's Hector Hammond. They say he's Hector Hammond. He brings up John's parents' house. puts in there, hey, we're going to zap them the same way we zapped him.

In any part of that scene, did Stewart show fear? Like, did he show fear in that scene? I don't think he displayed fear, but he froze. I don't think so. I think, like, as close as you can come to John being afraid because he was like, that's my parents' house.

And then Hal started, like, dicking around. And he's like, hey, man, like, I'm not afraid, but we ask my folks, you know, you got to get to it. And eventually, like, Howe figures it out. But I think there's, I even still feel like in that moment there's still enough trust between them

where he's like, he's going to figure this out, but I would prefer if my parents said I get blown up. So you brought up something interesting, so I want to fold all of this into one. I think a lot of viewers are bumping up against Kyle Chandler's betrayal of Hal because that scene is a perfect, like people like, is, is how racist? Is he a dickhead? Is he this?

And that scene to me is I'm like, oh, no, this is just how he moves through the world. This is a very, this is a trope of cops. Like the cop who's going to do anything, he's going to figure it out, he's always trusting his gut. And by reading of Hal in that scene is I'm like, how knows he's going to land this plane, he doesn't care how he has to do it. And that's what makes this so interesting

because the how that we would get in comics would be a little bit more goody-to-shoes about it. He's not going to put John Stewart's family at risk. This how doesn't give a fuck. Well, this how is also, we, house, we've talked about this a couple times. The source of house power is not the ring. The source of house power are his instincts.

That's why he is who he is. His instincts were what was on display during the interrogation scene, and his instincts are once again on display here, but he has to use them pretty quickly. On the is-Hal Jordan racist thing. So, like, the question to me, I'll frame it by saying this. Like, there's a certain amount of power that,

if you have it, even incompetence is evil. right you can just be evil or you can have a certain amount of power and if you have that amount of power and you do something that's incompetent you're you're basically evil because of the amount of people that you can emiserate like an incompetent president a president that just does something that's foolhardy that starts a war for the wrong reason that engages into something that is politically or even socially or culturally dumb, you can't distinguish that person from someone who just wants to kill and hurt people.

Right. Because the effect is the same. I think what the audience is talking about when they talk about Hal Jordan is someone or this show, period, and a grander societal question that we ask, is people who aren't aware of privilege. And whether not being aware of privilege is inherently racist.

Because if you're not aware of privilege, if you're racially ignorant, if you're culturally and socially ignorant, then the damage that you will do, your microaggressions are indistinguishable from actual aggressions. So the uncomfortable conversation that black people have tried to have with America

is for you to not be racist, you have to care about being anti-racist. And then people go, well, wait a second. Like, I don't want you to, like, police every single thing that I do and I don't want to have to, nobody's asking you to do that. Calm down. Your response is denoting that you feel like this is your country. This is a community that I live in with you.

And if you inside of this community with me are not aware of how I live in this, then you're telling me you don't care. care and how are we supposed to do anything together? And so when you look at how Jordan in this show, just him not caring, him being unaware, the guardians being unaware, that all doubles down on the privilege that the guy might have and it comes across as racist, even if Jordan himself doesn't hate niggins. Well, so I, what I think is interesting in what the show is litigating as well is this is racist in terms of you have to think about when how I was born

and also what it does to the white psyche and what it does to the white male psyche when you see someone that is not only younger than you, stronger than you, potentially smarter than you, but is also black. Yeah. We see that all the time where it's like it is easy, it is just a human instinct.

It is easier for you to want success for someone that looks exactly like you because you can put yourself in their shoes. And then the minute that they don't look like you, it takes more work. And when you live, the society that we live in, and you think of how as this character, even though

he's fictional, is gone through, of course there would be someone who grew up in the 70s, 80s, 90s, being like, oh, the version that's replacing me and is better than me is a black. We see it in professional sports. Can I tell you something right now? I want people to think of something.

I want you to think of this. I want you guys to think of George W. Bush and Barack Obama. George W. Bush is a C student. Like the presidency chose George W. Bush. Right. Like it legitimately chose him, right? His ancestors were on the Mayflower.

He comes from the lineage of Prescott Bush. His father was the president and the vice president. His brother was a governor. It's almost as if the presidency chose him. He was like somebody at that moment that was put in a situation. to where it's like, okay, you're from this dynasty of a family, the presidency chose you. Right after that, what do you get?

You get somebody who is their entire life has been preparation for leadership. Uh-huh. Editor of the Harvard Law Review, constitutional law professor, organizer, like achiever, achiever, that is Barack Obama. Even the talent that he had like as an orator, as someone who could connect people, this uncanny ability

like almost to be able to create that construct like this uncanny ability to be this transformative political like reality. And look how people responded. Yeah. Like look how people responded.

There were a lot of people that were absolutely inspired by Obama. But then there are other people that legitimately felt an existential dread that he could exist. That there could be a guy like that. But it breaks your reality. And that's what Lanterns is getting at, which is the reality that in a racist society that a bunch of people do not want to admit is that just by existing yes, if you are black in this world, you are going to have to do two or three times much just you get to the finish line. And if you admit that, your world starts to crumble because you're just like, oh, how much of the things in the world did I get because I worked hard for them or because they were handed to me? And it's interesting that the creators decided to use what we know about the ring in the comics, which is it chooses you.

And then it gives us John Stewart where it's like all the words. They subvert that. All the rules have changed. It's not funny, but it is kind of funny. You made a great point. But essentially what you said was George's Howe. Obama is John Stewart That makes Donald Trump Guy Gardner

Wait can we get the art team To do we should do a hope poster Just for John Stewart Put Will on it It's actually not a bad idea I had a question because like that That's all immaculately well said And I was really curious because

Don't be too curious, nigga No no The The guy he can't be like man He can't put a scovi on the right Do we have a coofer in here? We should have one on deck. We should have one on deck at all times.

Yeah, we should have a cooopee here at all times. Go for us. No, because it kept me thinking about episode three because when the guardians are talking to John's mom and they literally cannot conceive of racism. Brown? Like, they just think of this as a more of like an objective thing and not understanding the consequences of even giving

somebody like John's father the ring and then taking it away from him. do you think that like can the guardians be racist while also not knowing what it is? I mean, so I was thinking about this is going to be a long way of answering this question. I was like, the thing that's interesting about the space cop element of this show is they kind of say it in our earlier episode is just like, man, what do y'all actually do? Like if you think about it, you get one green lantern per sector. So you got a bunch of green motherfuckers. You have your own police on all these other planets.

Police that have either that have been put in, military, whatever. And then you got some random alien that's coming down, like saying what the law is. I don't know if the Guardians view race in the same way humans do. But if I'm an alien, the DC, I'm like, why do I got to respect these niggas? I mean, to be real with you, the, oh, go ahead, Jumby. I mean, I don't think the Guardians, like, it's. Who puts them in power? They did, right?

They took their own, they took it by force. They made the managers. Man, who put anybody in power? That's why I understand why y'all be listening to these motherfuckers, man. Like, who are you? We're asking the real questions here. Man, shout out to Mace. Mace was on there.

Mace was like, that's always why I got. I got the problems I got. I was always that the problems I got. D. D.G. Who are you? That's the same shit with me. That's the same shit with me. Like, let's sit talking around.

Can you imagine being in the DCU? One day you like, man, fuck the police. But you only got to deal with you. with the green police. And then overnight, you got, damn, we got red police now. We got yellow police now. We got blue police now.

So that was one of the most amazing tango. Oh, what was your question, though, Steve? Can the Guardians be racist? Well, they seemingly can't understand what it is. So the answer is it don't matter. And let me tell you. Like, the answer is it don't matter. Like, I said this on Ohio learning before

and people got pissed off at me. In any rational world, you'd have to have complete agency on something to be responsible for the effects of your participation in that thing. But this one ain't rational. This one ain't rational

and the reality is I'm gonna look at you and be like, yo man, you know every other fucking thing in the universe. Like, why haven't you taking the time? I can give y'all, y'all know every other thing. Y'all invented a power ring. Y'all invented

all of this technology. Nobody had time to read a little James Baldwin. Like y'all like you like that right if I push back they did say in the previous episode A they didn't give a fuck about earth earth was not on their fucking radar radar so to the guardians what's how gets the ring they might be like damn they you gave this white monkey the ring like to them they all we all just ate yeah yeah legitimately i think it's two things one we know about the guardians they not really they not the coolest people in the world like they kind of, they are dickheads.

Too more importantly, they don't care. They don't care. They don't care. I agree. The larger thing is, like, if, and this is probably accurate, if you're an Eon's old space being, the quibbles of, like, minuscule beings.

Short lifespan. Short lifespan on this planet. Probably something like some dumb ass shit to you. Like, this is what they care about. Like, two kids fighting over the remote. But, yeah. Do you think that? Actually, the guardians do know a bunch of this shit.

And they cleverly were like, we do not like Hal Jordan. This is a planet where they are killing each other over the color of their skin. We can actually manipulate this in a way where we get what we want. Well, the only thing I'll say about that is there was a white boy walking out of the room when he was walking in there if that white boy exists. Yeah, but here's the thing. It seems like the guard, and I might be wrong, it seems like the guardians have been working the Stewart family for. a while in terms of it seems like an asset to them that the father and mother do not like how Jordan.

Yeah, I mean, of course, because they were able to use that as a wedge. We never even found out in that episode what made Bernadette and John Sr. want their kids to be a Green Lantern so badly. They never discussed it. But I think we are left to infer that being a Green Laner, particularly for a military man and a military family, represents perhaps. perhaps we'll be the right word. Maybe they feel like it validates them in some sort of way.

Maybe they feel like the father's failure in that moment is indicative of the entire family or maybe the entire race. That it recognizes his failure if his son. It's not intentional. It is not intentional, but it's so funny. I thought about this last night while I was watching it. I was like, it says a lot about the middle class black existence where they see, hey, yo, not only could we be earth.

cops. We could be space cops. All right. Back to the show. Okay. Now I'm with it. Dude.

Right. Fuck that shit. Like, back to the show. Okay. So this. When we got through the compound, do we want to talk about the ride back?

Well, no. Oh, the ride back before they get to Hector's. No, because we talked about, we talked about them. You want to talk about the ride after they leave Hector. The ride after they lead actors.

Take it a lot. Where this is. obviously we're halfway through the season now this seems like a major breaking point between the two where Hal is we actually didn't, before we go that, we didn't talk about this. The Guardian, what's interesting when the Guardian comes to John, the not Hector gets the recording and then plays it for Hal

about everything that John really, really thinks about him. Guardian's up to shit. Yeah, always. I believe it. Guardians up to shit. Of course. The most clear thing that was ever going to happen of all time ever. Was John was going to find?

I thought that would come later. I was really surprised. I was going to like, oh, that was like, it took 40 minutes for the Guardians to end up trying to drive a wage. Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people? Scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social? Let me introduce you to fans. And they're here with me on Spotify.

Trust me, I know fans. They don't skip, they stay for hours. They don't move on, they manifest. They're not a demographic group. They're fans. Spotify advertising. You're among fans. Between John and how, because that's what they love to do.

The guardians love causing mess. So that was going to be one of my questions as well. With the guardian that we have seen, it is interesting to me that we have not seen her appear to Howe. And I'm like, is this actually a guardian? Is this a Manhunter? What is going? Because the only time we've seen, maybe I'm wrong,

the only time we've seen the Guardian beside with anybody else is when that guy was walking out of the room for the job. And with John's mom, the entirety. But all of that would have been a part of the ruse. Yeah. Right. So I'm like, why isn't the Guardian also trying to play how? Like, they know that how.

I think they're, Sinestro. Yeah, but I think their math is he's lost. We can't talk to them. Yeah, but if he was lost, then they would have tried to get a replacement for him going. And here's the question. We didn't go. For having like 20 years. They have.

They didn't go over this. It is very, very weird to me that she's just like, okay, the next time that Howe gives you the ring, don't give it back, say the oath. And I was like, wait, why are you got, like, if you guys are the guardians and you guys made the rings, why is John having to go through with that? So this is the thing that I was most interested in. I actually did a little research on that. The ring would then automatically acquiesce to the will of Stewart if he says the oath.

That, to me, denotes that the guardians can control who the Green Lantern is, that it's not all the ring. And if that's the case, to Charles's point, why don't they just fire how? Yeah. And you know what I mean? Like, they have to have somebody who's worthy of it, right? Right.

So is the, is, and this is why you'd explain it, is the thing that the ring is the best at choosing who's worthy of it and who's fearless, right? And so then the guardians go along with that because the ring does a better job of that. And the ring would not choose John Stewart if he wasn't fearless. Like if John Stewart says the oath that he's not cut out for it,

the ring goes, no. I think it's two things. I think one, like, I mean, both of these are, like, mainly, like, show things. A, they want the ring to choose John specifically because they bred him since birth to be their. So the ring would still have to choose him, even if he said the oath, if he wasn't one or the other. If he says the oath and takes it, then he becomes the re-lander. He becomes their proxy, right?

If the ring goes and flies off and goes somewhere else, then John's S-O-L, right? They don't get their guy that's in the mix. That's why he needs to take it. Well, how would have to die first? Exactly. Right. No, by the comics, the fucking shit happens. The ring.

But that's what happened when I'm starting to... Yeah, but in this situation here, that's not what she said. Right, because John's not dead. Or the house not dead. Right. So like, oh, so only if he dies with the ring, go and choose somebody else. Yes. But in this situation, he's not dead.

Exactly. So would he have to be worthy of the ring? Because then the question is, what if you're out, Jordan, and you take it to me, I'm scared of plenty of shit. You know what I'm saying? I don't like fucking stepping out on balconies. You see. You mean the worst green ladder all time.

If you give me the ring and I say to, oh, do I automatically become the Greenlander? I don't think so. I don't think so either. But I just, it was weird to me because even John, the way talking to like Aaron Pierre being a fantastic actor, there's something on his face of like, wait, why do I have to go through all the subterfuge to get the ring? Because it doesn't seem very official. It's not like he's being visited by all the guardians.

He's been visited by one guardian that only reveals herself to him and his family. And I was like, that is a little odd. Again, I mean, she knows that John or at Howl is giving updates about John. He's not creative. I mean, she says that. And then there's a scene when he's showing him the schematics of the digger and he's like, I'm creative. But is Howe giving actual updates? Because we learned in the previous episode.

He has an update. He shut off. He shut up his confidence. So I'm just like, is she lying to him and like... I mean, they're always lying. I think it is like... To be suspicious of the Guardians is always a good idea because, again, these guys are the worst.

But I don't know, man. There is a level to me where... Who would they be to make John their proxy if not, like, because Howell is such a nightmare? Well, because this is also starting to like me. thing like how does Cisnero know about manhunters and how does he know that there's some on earth? Well you know, is it possible that the guardian that Cineshestro killed was actually a

manhunter? It's possible and that's what I'm because like the only other way that that one perceived manhunter that is say we're going with the idea that that guardian is actually a manhunter. That manhunter wouldn't have known that Hal effectively clocked in to the prison to visit Cinesstro to do so. Right. I would manage I would wager that is probably like a rogue guardian,

but at the same time, how is like rogue in of itself, right? We talked about like, you know, what it, like being a human for a guardian is just, it doesn't make, their brains can't like comprehend why these people would have these emotions, would do these things, would act out of character.

You give a regular alien to ring out in space, they follow orders, they do as they're told. There's no, there's nothing other, I mean, they're telling me, worry about it. For humans, they act out, these short lives give them these different emotions that makes them do crazy things.

We gave a human the ring, and we cannot control him. Everybody else we have on a string. This guy creates problem after problem, after problem. We need a human that is going to do exactly what they're told. And so they, again, we've seen in the last episode, they quite literally from birth, breed somebody who they feel like is the embodiment

of what it means to be a perfect, human green lantern. You don't, you follow orders. You don't say no. You do exactly as you're told. And for them, when she comes back and she's like, yo, hey man, I spent your whole life making you this perfect robot for me to control. And all of a sudden now, at the moment of the opportunity, you're not coming through. Maybe your daddy was a loser. That was crazy, by the way. That was tough. But here's the thing. If you flip it, though, think about this. What do we know about the Manhunters? The Manhunters can transform into anyone. If we know that Abinster and would either a Manhunter was on board and that

Manhunter escaped, wouldn't a manhunter be like it would be great if we could raise a child, knowing everything we know about humans, racism, all this stuff, wouldn't it be great if we could raise our own Green Lantern and have them on our side? And that's why they're just like, hey, next time Howe gives you the ring, say the oath, because they're essentially like, they're not, like, that's my thing. this was a guardian, why are they going through this? If the guardian was a manhunter, they would be like, hey, do this.

I want to say two things real quick. One, I'm having a fucking immense amount of fun right now. Yeah, this is crazy. This is amazing. Number two, go back to what you just said a second ago. We have not discussed that. The fact that he in some way showed a little flex with the guardians or a little, he bucked up with them a little bit.

and she started ripping his family lineage to shred in front of him talking the most cash money, disrespectful shit that we've seen. Maybe you're a bitch just like your daddy, nigga. What the fuck. But think about that though. That, to me, lends itself to a theory that there is some type of nefarious fucking aim

behind these guardians because the thing that they are doing in that situation is trying to egg him on to take over because they need control over the Green Lantern for some reason. They don't want it. They need it. Almost as if

they need him to do it now so they can tell him to leave this entire thing along before he finds out what is going on in this town. And this is why I am like raising the like, is the guardian a manhunter theory?

Is maybe the manhunter when they crashed on earth with Abin-Sir? Was like, fuck. We thought that we were going to get the ring when Abbot's sir died. The ring immediately goes to the most worthy person. So they are impersonating to be like, actually, I'm a guardian and we got a new way of doing things. I think that's a hard conceit because, okay, let's say John does take the ring. John gets the ring and he's got to zip over to Oa for you know initiation and whatnot and they go Wait a minute who is this? Yeah who who are you you?

Who picked you? You know, you? But that's also the other but like the Guy Gardner thing of it all Like he could be official right and not know and like because there's two rings now well guy gardener or sorry it's 10 years later yeah you don't know but it's the mere fact that like if if if if it's to be believed that Guy Garner is actually legitimately, like, he's gone to see the Guardians, like he's part of that official did it go away, did that, like, when this was solved, this mystery, death of howl,

the Guardians might not know that they have a manhunter in their rings. They might be the thing. Like, this guardian could be like on earth basically manipulating a bunch of shit. And that's why Sinestro, when he killed, they're like, you killed the guardian. He killed the wrong one. And he's like, no, no, no, no.

you guys have a manhunter. Wouldn't Sinehro just tell how that? Nah, you can't give up the goose like that. Sinehra wouldn't just tell how that I killed a manhunter instead of a garden? Exactly. Yeah. But to what end, though?

If he actually killed... If he actually killed him, wouldn't Senehro just be like, hey, well, maybe he can't because he's realized he's being washed or ready to do they went out there. Anyway, all this was assassinated. All right, let's get back. Because we get into the end of the episode.

The conversation in the car coming back, That leads to car accident, crash. Can you guys explain? Because you guys have watched the episode more than I have. Why do you think that Howe jumps out of the car leaves John in there to crash? Was he trying to kill him? I watched that scene. I watched the scene like going from the Hector Hammond joint to the end like 10 times.

Because I was like, I was like, yeah, what am I looking at? So here's what I think happened. And here's why I think not only is Cal Chandler amazing, Aaron Pierre, the whole writing team, like everything is working at such a high level, right? How does not jump out the car and put John through the freaking telephone pole because he's upset about what he told to Guardians? He's not upset about like him taking the ring, all of that.

All the nonsense that they've been through over the last four episodes, he's not mad about any of that. In fact, he respects him. He's upset that he did not tell that he's upset. John, how's upset that John did not tell him about Zoe. That's it. Yeah. That's the whole thing.

Everything else, he's like, hey, man, the game is the game. You know, I would have done it. I was, I was thinking about it. But the fact that you knew that Zoe was a manhunter, and that's why we're here in the first place to do that, find out who the manhunter is, so that they don't blow up this town and however long, it takes and you didn't tell me that.

After all of that, nah, bro, you don't deserve this ring. You don't deserve to be a Green Lantern. The whole thing that we've been like, we've been talking about it for four episodes and how much, how sucks and how much ridiculous. The one thing that he is dedicated to

is being a Green Lantern and doing it. Even if it's his way, even it's the worst way, he is still the man. Right. And so when he finds out that John knew, that Zoe was a manhunter for how long, and he did not communicate that to him,

that's the breaking point. It's trust. I would not, if my partner knew that he suspected that this woman was a manhunter, I'm like, how can I trust you now? Okay, so let's beautifully stated. Let's talk about the remedy to that.

He jumps out of the car, and we'll find out next episode. But he jumps out of the car at a high rate of speed, right? After finding out, you know, there's been some erosion and the trust between these two characters. There was the hearing of the recording to where he realizes that like he was supposed to take the Green Lantern ring from him. It's the one thing he cares about more than anything. But then it was also the Zoe thing.

Now, after this, he jumps out of the car at a high rate of speed and the car goes into a pole. Either we're going to find out that he was depending on. on the airbag to deploy and save Stewart's life or, guys, he was trying to kill him. He doesn't know if he could try. All right, we got to be real, though. You have to think about this.

If anybody can be a Manhunter and your partner is like, I knew this person was a Manhunter, I don't know how far this shit fucking runs. Like, I don't know, like, because also how, what is John Sade Wim? Look, I was going to give back the ring. to hell he's just like

oh I trusted you I gave you the ring I don't know if you was going to give that you can't prove that you were going to because he did give it back he did give it back that's that and that's the that's the that's the like kind of such a day yeah he asked for it he asked for it again that's very true but they took it from him when he was going to do

what he was going to do he had a long time to do it to do it he could have said the oath stopped the thing from burrowing and dropped a hundred pounds of fucking soil on top of him Like, he did give a gun and he just don't use it the one time, but he's like, Nah, hell not. If his, if his goal is to kill you, you give him the gun and he don't shoot you.

I get it, but I really don't, like, so I think what you guys just said is really interesting. So he killed him because he cannot trust him, not as a partner, but he can't trust that he's a part of the overall conspiracy is what you guys are saying. Yeah. Nah, man, I mean, I can see that. I mean, you mentioned it, like, tried to kill him. Tried to kill him, yeah, because then he does the same thing in the first episode. Yeah, but he leaves the ring. He leaves the ring.

He don't leave the ring this time. This is, like, actually, like, yo, I think it's because he can't trust him to get the job done. Yeah. That's what it's all about for how, so whatever end is to solve the problem. To get the job done in terms of, like, who the Manhunter is. Now that I'm actually thinking about, if we go back, dog, the, the fucking Guardian was talking to John, like, that main O'Club. hey, I want you to use that guy. I want you to use that way.

Yeah. You know what I'm not? What are you saying about my dad, man? No, no, no, no, no. No, like, how is, I mean, what else does I have nothing? Right. Yeah. Again, hey, man, it's cool that thing.

I ain't all that. I'm not worried about none of that. That's what the Guardians do. The Guardianists love playing those games. I can't even imagine the conversations how it was having with the Guardians about Sinestro, man. Right. Like that kind of stuff.

He knows what kind of games they play. What it came down to for him was, brother, we have a job to do. If you're going to be a Green Lantern, brother, you got to do it. If you think about it, how, like I think this episode situates where how alone Hal is, Hal is not updating the Guardians. He does not tell anybody. He doesn't even tell John that he's going to visit Sinestro. So at this point, he even looked up Carrie to be like,

were you alive and around blah blah so already hal is being like i don't know if i can trust anyone because he knows more about the manhunter's than anybody else that at this point is not you got to remember at the end of episode two when uh like you get like how he sends him back he comes back he's assaulted by the other aliens and john is like kind of on his last wits end but he still tells hal about the plot to come there and blow up brushville if they don't find the man without 48 hours, right? And so, like, I think that's even there, and then he goes to have Flav to go see Sanestro.

Even there, you can see, like, okay, they're coming together, there's trust there, he's finding it, okay, John might actually be somebody who may be worthy of this responsibility. For him to go and not tell him about Zoe, yeah. That's like, you can't do that. But think about what happens

just before he jumps out of the car. He actually calls him and has him set the meeting up with those guys. guys before he jumps out of the car. So he wants to go and check those guys out. He just doesn't want Stewart to come with him. He wants to do it by himself, which tells me that now his level of trust to you guys'

point has absolutely plummeted. But unless the next episode begins and there's a line in the show somewhere and the line is, hey, I knew you just be. you'd be fine. Passengers aside airbag. Like, unless that is... The airbag saved his life. This nigga's dead.

Are you nuts? Or you were wearing your seatbelt or whatever. Six and a ounce an hour into a pole? Or you're wearing your seatbelt. Like, head-on collision? I mean, we, again, we too mad to talk about this off air, but the first time you see that, I was like, did he just, he tried to kill him?

I would, you know, that was a point in the college racist column for the people who would do that. That is the point of the race. But to put a bunch of, to put a bunch of, on it. But he needs him sideline either through death or through serious, serious injury. Like concussion. And we have not seen that before. Maybe we saw it in the first episode, but that point he had the ring.

In this point, he is punishing him. So that's a pretty severe punishment. And it tells me that he doesn't just not trust him. He thinks that he might be the enemy. Yeah. They, I know we got some of our people in that room. If the next episode don't start with Through the Wire, John's waking up. Hey.

Is he going to be able to go to the special hospital where they got all of the fucking high-tech shit? There's just a fucking... Nobody, they don't know how to use this. But they got the high-tech fucking shit, so he's going to be okay. I mean, even... Because I know we're wrapping up.

Once again, the thing that I keep wondering about Rushville, and I can't tell if this is a budgetary concern, if this is just how they wrote it. When John goes to get the scope in the gun, are these people racist against black people? Or are these manhunters who are just like, because they're like, oh, you Green Lantern's buddy. This show is doing a very interesting thing

where we never see people from the town, really. And whenever we do see them, they hate hell and they hate John. And I keep, you bring up the like, oh, if he goes to the hospital, I'm like, Rushville's not a real town. Right. We have not seen any...

Who's a character that is not related to the makins that we have seen be anything more than an MPC? Have we met the bartender of the Rushville thing? Right. Have we, I mean, like... The nurse said the hospital. What I'm saying, have we really met? We've seen people in Rushville get mad

because he continues to play the song, which would denote humanity, annoyance, would denote... humanity, but we haven't really met outside of our principles, good old smokestack Johnson.

Yeah. That kind of runs the thing like that. Yeah. Because even that, even that would like deepen our affinity for the town. Right. It would put some like, oh, we want this town to be saved. It's not the wire where it's

just like even if they're not the central characters, they're just like you have the flavor of people. Orlando. No. Yeah. Like, we don't have that in the show. We don't have that in the show almost like we're not supposed to actually care what happens to the town. I mean, because we know it's going to get blown up.

But every time they're talking about somebody. But it doesn't all get blown up because their son is still playing high school football. Sure. So the school must still be there. But there's like a big portion. Yeah. They seem still there. But like to the larger point, every single time we see like people talking, like in episode two when he walks into the hall.

And he was like, oh, you guys were talking about me. Right? They're always talking about the Green Lantern. Yeah. That's all they can talk about. So it's interesting. It's all they can talk about it because that's all they fucking have to talk about. Because other than that, is blee-bob, blib-de-blib-blib-blib-blah alien shit.

So, all right, before we end, I think we do need to bring back Manhunter rankings. Right. Before we do that, though. Okay. Because we should end on that. But before we do that. John, how good, you know, kind of the worst, dude, also a liar. He was like, I would never Mac on a married woman.

That's, brother. Wrong answer. He was proud to put the moves on carry all episode, man. He's been trying to put the moves on carry. He's been trying to put the moves on carry. He, all fuck is. Hey, I can't. Remember episode two?

You know, I got a shaky marriage. Oh, your marriages? Oh, yeah. That's a dirty mac of king right there. When he was like, I would never forsake the matrimonial bond. Then he'd go, he'd hold her hand in episode. He said, I get why he did. dish those bangs. I see you have.

It's dirty. Something just popped in my head. Well, we have looked at the relationship between Han and Luke different if Luke was black. Absolutely. The way Han be treating Luke like the little nigga, absolutely. Especially in the first one. Right.

But wait. Just think about this. Because this is kind of the conversation. If Luke was black, Leah is black. Huh? So if Luke is black, Leah also has black. Ah, hell not. We got a De Niro situation. It's not even a Nero situation.

But you got to imagine how, not only how he was treating a Luke, but how he was trained layer. Yeah. And at first joint, no, you can't, no, you can't do that, man. If they was black, if they were the black twins, if that was, was that 1977? Mm-hmm. So, you know, whoever is out there doing their thing in 77,

if Luke, if they're, like, who, is it different? It's got to be different. Absolutely. If Luke is a long A young Lawrence Fishburn. We probably would have been calling Solo. A lot of that shit.

Isn't that the original Star Wars trilogy like the most progressive thing that's ever been made? I mean, it can't be the most progressive thing that's ever been made. Because here's the thing to be looking at Jabba different

because once he got, he enslaves Leah, we like, damn. Oh. Then Jabba than the slave, Leah, why she got to be a slave? Now, would you judge your white in a chain?

Would you judge your white homies if they're getting turned on by Black Leia being in the slave law. It would be totally different. It's totally different. Slave layer will take on like such a worse connotation. You can even say Slate. Can you imagine?

Black, Anacian. Oh, no. Black Antiquette would be no. Because, you know, I be cheering. That's some Django shit. Because Black Anakin going King Vaughn on all the same people. We have to.

Maybe the man. You know what I? Does that make fucking Dirk, Obi-Wan? Y'all, they slide it. Hey man, free everybody. Well, everybody. Well, not everybody, but not everybody.

But it's just because when you think about this relationship, the kid stuff, the all of stuff, it just, when you put that dynamic in there, it feels different. Oh, man. Like, SEC football. All right, now. Manhunter rankings. So, Man Hunter Rankings.

All right, man Hunter Rankings. What were they last time? I feel like last time we had Carrie at number one. I got it. Carrey was number one. What a manhunter rank is. It was Carrie, Zoe. We had.

We didn't have the guardian on the board. No, no, no. We had Sheriff Kerry, uh, Zoe Macon, Billy Macon, Noah making and Willie Macon. So, uh, Noah is the kid. And at five, we had, like, big making. Right. All right.

So on the, I don't know if I believe how. I think, I think, uh, what you can call it. Carrie should be still be on the board. We got to move her down though No, we're gonna move her down But he's like Oh, I looked you up You were somebody before this

And I was just like How if you think about this The fucking Manhunter Has been on earth Since you got the fucking ring Right You don't think that that was done As a narrative technique

To rule her out though Or I do think But I was just like knowing Lindeloff that muff Like that motherfucker A little slippery So I think I would put If we're starting at 5

Maybe carries that 5 now Not the kid I put the kid I put the kid. I mean, we're taking a kid off the board? No. No, kids stays on the board. Because we haven't seen him in a while.

He stays in the picture. Yeah, kids, kids, like, okay. Making is five, actually. I don't think it's making. Making is five. I don't think it's five. That's too obvious. It's too obvious.

Nah, but are we putting, okay. Because he's a human that's got his life saved. So he's like a zealot to whatever. But are we putting the guardian on the board? Sure. So then we have to take somebody off the board unless we decided to six. I would be willing to take somebody. We got to take it off the board.

I would take making it off the board. I would take making or carry off the board. I'm taking the kid off the board. No, the kid is still on the board. Why? We haven't seen him a three episode. That's why. By the way,

I almost think that Jason Ritter's character should be on the board, too. What the fuck is this? We're keeping him on the board. It's between making and the kid. I'd say we take the kid off the board. But Carrie, okay, cool. You know what? You really think carry is just off off.

I don't know. I feel like they went out of their way to tell us that Carrie wasn't the man. But you got to remember. A, did the thing where it's like you were in Gotham, this and that. And Hal has been spending, spent four episodes, you can't get close to nobody, can't like nobody, all this and that. And he's holding her hand and all that.

And she is at the end. Maybe she's the Manhunter. Maybe they left and let the Manhunters have their own time. But also, no, Carrie could have been killed and a Manhunter replaced her. I don't mind keeping her on the list. I do think we should move her down. Okay, so if we're putting somebody on the board, then we have to take the kid off the board.

You got to take the kid off the board. I don't believe. I think that's still in the running. I think the kid is still in the running. Do you think there's even a chance that Mankin's a manhunter? I don't. I don't think so. To Steve's point,

because he's a zealot, like he was saved by Zoe and blah, blah, blah, blah. But his whole thing is aliens bad, boo, we don't like. Let's vote. Let's vote. Who are we taking off the board? Makin? I vote for Makin.

All right, we can take Macon off the board. We can take Macon off the board. So then who's five? The kid. I'll put the kid at five. All right, kids five. Four. Four.

Yeah. Three between Zoe, the bandhunter, or who are we forgetting? You mean the Guardian? The Guardian, sorry. I think Zoe's at three because, like, she definitely is at three. I think that you convinced me that the Guardian should be at the two or one. I think the Guardian's two. No, I put Zoe at two.

I put Zoe at one. I put Zoe at one, the Guardian at two. Right. And then Billy at three. That's fair. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

So, run it down quick for social. So one, we got Zoe. Two, we have the guardian. Three is Billy. Four is Sheriff Kerry. And five, we have Noah. The kid. Now, let me say something.

Okay. Noah was brought up almost for no reason in this episode. What do you mean? That's his grant. What's his grandpa? That's Noah's grant. Just to remind us. That Noah is in here.

That's why Noah's just to remind us that Noah's here. And Noah's saving his grandma would be a big deal. I'm calling my shot. What if Noah goes off to college or whatever? He plays it, I don't know, Florida State or something. And he's like a prodigy.

And he's like the one manhunter that got away. Noah going crazy. Christian McCaffrey. All right, cool. Fantastic episode. We're cooking. Like these are a real fun episode. It's a very, very fun episode, fantastic episode.

The show continues to do something that is interesting, which is bring, not all of it, but bring a lot of the feeling back to Sunday night on HBO. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is a show that's working. People are into it. It's causing a lot of conversation, a lot of fucking beef.

I've heard that, is it true that the season two writers for lanterns is already kind of like together? Cooking up? Were we greenlit for season two? I didn't even know that. I don't know. I was seeing rumors. Maybe this is some fake-ass shit.

But was it? Final. If there's a season two for lanterns, would you like them to follow the anthology like method that True Detective does? It's more as two different lanterns? It's either two different lanterns or a completely different mystery.

I love that. Vanessa Baden Kelly. Think about it. Could be fun. Jessica Cruz. Because here's the thing, because I don't think Hal is dead either. So do you bring, do you partner Hal with someone else? Do you partner John with someone else?

Is it too different? I'll tell you what. If James Guns too involved, that squirrel's coming back. Hard. Man, fuck that squirrel. Let's squirrel with him. Okay. Monday, guys, remember, the House of R continues their lantern coverage.

They're going deep, deep, deep on lanterns on Wednesday. RingQuest part two drops. Support ring requests right now. Go watch it. Turn this off. You don't want to stop hanging out with us. You want to hang out with the whole crew. Go watch and listen to Ring requests.

On Friday, Button Match gives their reactions to Wolverine. It's got to say it now. We asked for Wolverine codes so that we could play the game. They played us. And Big Col Limburg said, Played us. Cash, gas, or ass, nobody rides for free. He was like, if you want these Wolverine codes,

you got to come on Button Mash and talk about it. And guess what? I respect it. I would love for all the Midnight boys to make an appearance together on button match. They're going to give us Grant the Fah auto codes. We got to talk about it. Got to talk about it.

Cash, gas, I ask, man. Nobody rides for free. That's what Big Cudlinberg's is. But on Friday, he's going to give his reactions to Wolverine. So you guys are going to be able to... That's a very, very important game. Everybody's talking about it.

So make sure you tune in... It's going to get a overshadow, probably. but make sure you Wait! Is it not? By Grand Theft Auto? Yeah. That's why it's releasing so early. Yeah.

Yeah. But our producers today are Devin Brody. C.T. Shout to C.T. Jamie Yukich. Join me dinner on socials. Hashtack, throw your hands in the air. That's from the last show. An additional production from Arjuna Ram Gapal.

Chuck, take us out. We love fucking robots. Oh. That box we can taste it. And unfortunately, Hot Solo might be racist. Advertising on Spotify puts your brand in the moments where Gen Z fandom takes shape. They're 35% of our audience and spend two hours building rituals and shaping culture with every stream.

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