The Ringer-Verse - ‘Loki’ Ep. 1: Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: June 9, 2021

The wait is over—‘Loki’ is finally here! Charles and Van share their instant thoughts and reactions to the epic season premiere (04:48). They also talk about some of the newest MCU characters the show introduces and how well it can carry the story over the rest of the season (25:44). Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fanduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Into the ringerverse. This is of course the ringer's nexus podcast fee for all things spandum.

And look, we're back. Midnight boys are back, baby. We gave your content. We... Who is that in the back of your shit, bro? That shit is crazy. Wait, who's in the back of what? There's somebody behind you.

Bro, I'm not even lying that there's somebody behind you for real on some real shit. That's my girl. Oh, I'm like... I'm like, is there a ghost? I'm looking behind you. I'm like, there's somebody behind you with a stick.

That's a broom, bro. There's a broom. Oh, I'm like, yo. I'm tripping, bro. Last night, I'm not going to lie. I'll tell you why that happened. We'll get back to introducing the podcast. Last night, I woke up, and I saw some movie,

and there was this little girl, and she was watching, like, a film, and there was all her friends in it, and all of a sudden, this dude came up behind her and grabbed her and then took her into the film. I don't know what movie this is. And so when I'm, I was, it scared the shit out of me. Bozeman jumped up and came in the room.

And when I'm watching you right now, I didn't know. I just saw, like, a figure with a stick. behind you. Us your girlfriend, she's tidying up. Okay, cool. We know that traditional gender roles are adhered to in Charleston's. Oh, I cooked to mean dinner. I come up to mean dinner already. You know what I'm saying? Busted my ass in the kitchen. Come on now. Okay. All right. This is, so we were saying before I almost had an anxiety attack, the Midnight Boys are back, baby. It's monumental. We waited. We waited. We waited the five.

weeks, but now we have content to react to, to be impulsive, to make snap decisions, to say things that will have you guys asking the question. Are these guys high? And we are here now on Wednesdays to give you our knee-jerk reactions to Loki. Loki's here. He's ready. He's popping around a timeline. He's doing all kinds of crazy things. And me, Van Lathan, host of the higher learning show with Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay, and Charles Holmes, host of the ringer, music show, which is one of the best podcasts on the Ringer Network. I really enjoy the Ringer music show, bro. Thank you, I told you.

It's very good. And, of course, we're switching up the schedule a little bit. Before we were on Fridays and Mallory was on Tuesdays. Now, we are going to be on Wednesdays, and you can look forward to a Friday deep dive analysis. So you check in with Mallory over at the House of Mao. Do you think the Wednesday listeners are ready for us? Because the Friday listeners have been killing us, saying we late in shit and all that.

Wednesday? We might be more timely. You know what I'm saying? Might be more timely on Wednesday. But even if we're not, you know what we're doing the best we can. That's what we're doing, guys. Oh, I forgot to tell you before we dive in, man. Van, I'm with you now.

I'm making a life change. What is it? I'm getting swole. I finally decided. You're swelling up? You're going for it? I got to do it. I'm going from like Steve Rogers to Captain America over the summer.

You got to do it. What made you? What made this? Why? I've known this. for a while. Like I had to change my appetite, like how I eat. Because I was like, damn, like I'm 28. Like, my metabolism.

I can feel it is slowing down. You know what I'm saying? Like, my body is just breaking down on me. We can't have this. Twenty-eight, my metabolism. I'm not even going to pretend. I'm not even going to pay attention to that. I'm not even paying attention. It is. It's slowing down, bro.

I'm 28. I thought you would be happy that. I'm happy. Half of the Midnight Boys is helping. Like, we're doing this together. I don't like that you. acting like you geriatric, like you old man, Steve or something. But my back hurts now. Like that can't be happy.

I'm 28, bro. If your back hurts, that has nothing to do with your age. That has to do with you. Man, strengthen your core. But I'm telling you, 28, you're great. But I'm happy, though. Invest on your health. Invest in your health.

Friday, going to be deep dives with Mallory. Wednesday, there are going to be knee-jerk reactions with the midnight boys. And we're going to have even more surprises for you on the ringer verse feed. So always stick with us, check in with us. We'll be doing that. Now, look, guys, we're about to talk about Loki. Marvel's newest television show.

They're on the Disney. Plus, this is a character we've known for a long time, a character that we've fallen in love with over his art throughout these films. And I have to say something right now. If you have not seen the first episode of Loki, number one, I do not know why you are listening to this podcast. But number two, if you haven't seen it,

I would really suggest that you turn this podcast off right now because we are about to spoil it for you if you have not seen it. So in five, in four, in three, in two, in one, this is now a spoiler-filled podcast. So if you ain't seen it, turn it off. All right, look, we're switching things up. Normally I do the 40-second recap, but two-gun Chuck, one half of the Midnight Boys, has decided that he is taking on the 42nd recap this week. Whoa, I didn't decide I was taking it on.

Who decided? You were slacking. And my man, Steve is like, can you do it? And I was like, all right, I got to. I got it back on my man. How was I slacking? Whoa, who decided out Steve? Jump on now. How was I, like, how was I slacking? Seriously, what's up with the slacking? Like, what? You didn't do your 40 second recap. I'm supposed to do it. Like, they started giving me the 40 second recap. All right. Yeah, they were trying to teach you out of fish. I gave it to Charles this week, just because I wanted to have somebody prepared for it. You never told see you guys never, this is how shit happens right

here. Y'all trying to make a Kobe in Shaq situation. This is how this shit happens. Wait, am I Kobe? I'll take you be Kobe. This is how stuff happens. But I'm more than happy, Charles's fucking bomb at the 40 second recap. So let's just stop all of this and get to the 40 second recap. Now you know I know I'm going to kill the 40 second recap.

How? Steve, right now, take 10 seconds off. I'm going to do it in 30. 30 second recap. This boy feels like he wants to do it the old way. Okay. All right. Fine. 30 seconds. All right. Steve, let me know what I can go. All right. In three, two, one, go. Loki picks up the Tesserach and disappears.

As an agency called the time variance authority finds and apprehends him. The TVA's rule by the timekeepers. Three, lizard like gods. Their job is to preserve the sacred timeline and destroy unauthorized timelines and the variance that caused them. We find out that Loki is a variant who is about to be destroyed with Movis and agent of the TVA saves him. Mosias shows Loki his entire life. Loki cries.

Moeus and Loki have an existential debate. that Loki agrees to join Mobius to track down another Loki variant done. You didn't even need the buzzer. You got it in 25. God, about to say 26, 27. That's what I'm talking about. Now, first of all, that's fantastic. I will say this.

It is indicative of the fact that not much happens in this episode. I'm just joking. Okay, let's go ahead and get into it. Overall thoughts about this episode. This has been a very long-awaited show. I think this is one of the ones if you ask me, that people were really interested to see which direction they would take this character in.

Because even unlike some of the other characters that we've seen, Loki's been here pretty much since the beginning. Like pretty much since the beginning in a big, big way. This is the role that made Tom Hils and the star. So what did you think, based upon all that anticipation for him getting his own deal, how did you like the first episode? I love the first episode.

I went in thinking that they didn't need a Loki show. I was like, why are they giving Loki a show? Like, it's been like over a decade. What more is there to tell? And maybe this is just my bias because I love me some Owen Wilson. I thought it was a really, really entertaining, you know, hour of TV. And weirdly, I think the first episodes of these MCU shows,

they've been shaky. They've been shaky. And I think this is probably, in my opinion, the best first episode of any of the Disney Marvel shows. But I think you disagree with me, then. I don't disagree with you necessarily that it's the best first episode. Because, I mean, what we're comparing it to, we're comparing it to Wanda Vision and then the Falcon and the World Soldier, right?

So, yeah. I told you I didn't really enjoy the first episode of the Falcon of the Winter Soldier. And the first episode of Wanda Vision was good for what it was, but the show would expand itself so much in the coming weeks that it almost doesn't even feel like the first episode of Wanda Vision. is actually the show Wanda vision. Yeah. It was still kind of setting us up.

So to that degree, yeah. I mean, I think also this show does have a little bit of an advantage in that we're essentially maybe more emotionally connected to what's happening to him, being that we're picking up right after something that happened at the end of end game. You know what I mean? Yeah. Even when that happened in the theater, I mean, we already knew that he was going to be getting his own show. But like what happened to Loki and what?

what was going to happen to Loki. It had a little bit of an advantage, but advantage or not, I'd agree with that. I do feel like this was a good episode of television. Not a great one. It had to explain a lot. It had to do a lot of world building in this episode, right?

And they did it really well. I will, if there's any knock on it, I will say that the first episode does fall into the trap of, like, it's a lot of recap. Like, it's a lot, a lot of just like, and they do it well, making it seem like Loki is seen, the history of like his future.

But there was a time where I was like, damn, are they really just going to recap all this shit that we've already seen before? So that would be my one knock on the episode. But I still enjoyed it. No, it was good. But they had to because this is even a different version of Loki. The Loki that we know has evolved way further than this guy.

The 2012 Avengers version. This is a different Loki that got plucked out of the timeline. He's not, he hasn't seen Darry. Dark World, Ragnarok. He hasn't lost his mom yet. Hasn't gone through Ragnarok yet. He hasn't lost his father. All of those things are things that he's seeing.

So it is interesting to see how that character, fresh off being a murderous madman, if we're being honest, in Avengers, which I think that's a problem that I had with this a little bit. I do, in a way, feel like Tom Hilsson is playing the 2019 Loki in this movie, excuse me, in this show that's supposed to be the 2012 Loki. The 2012 Loki is not a cuddly fun guy. He's a guy that was using the Chitari to take over the world,

and he definitely speaks to that. But it still seems as if, I mean, remember at the end of Avengers, his eyes were sunken in and it was on his face, like, what was going on with him. So I don't really know. Maybe he's away from the Mindstone now that might not be manipulating him anymore. or so that to me, it just seemed like they turned a dial on them pretty quick. Oh, and we get into the plot of the episode, by the end of the first episode, we get anti-hero Loki.

Like, it's literally like he just watches a couple clips of his life and like all of the evil, like being responsible for his mom dying, everybody on Asgard dying, all of these things. He cries. And then right after that, we're like, all right, I'm anti-hero Loki. Like, I have a conscious. I have a heart. I cry when I do bad stuff. And I was like, oh, man, y'all, y'all are just like, they'll go with it.

They love Loki. They're not going to have any questions. Look, I think as an audience, it's easy for us to buy that he's going to change because we've already seen him change. Yeah. But if we're putting it in the perspective of what was happening, then, I mean, it was hard to know that Loki was going to end up coming back and, like, you know, he was always kind of on both. of things, but Avengers, he was pretty fucked. So I think it's easy for us to buy it, but still, when I take a step back and I analyze it from where it was, I'm like, man, because, you know, he's, he's showing a little bit of

fear. He's, he's not nearly as pompous as he was. Like, it's the traces of it are there, but the character aspects, the traits that may Loki want to take over the whole world. they don't really seem to be in this particular iteration of Loki. No, I agree totally. But what did you think of the TVA

and how much world building they had to do in the first episode because in the first episode, we learn who the TVA is, we learn how the timeline works again, we learn about variance, the sacred timeline, the timekeepers.

It's a lot. They do a really good job of explaining it and I got it. I bought it all. But I was like, damn, there's a lot of, a world building in this. No, well, let me tell you why I, there is a lot of world building.

And I think that normally when I go to a movie or when I watch something, I hate world building. Yeah. World building is like, that's to me, I just couldn't, I mean, besides the fact that was poorly made, one of the biggest things that Jupiter's legacy didn't connect with me is because they were building a world that I don't think I was very interested in. Now, that's not a shot to Milar or anything. I guess it is a shot to Milar, but I would.

wasn't dying to see that world come to life on screen. So a part of me when I was watching the show, it was like get to the fucking point. You know what I mean? Let's go. Let's get to the point to where we have what it is that we understand because I wasn't intrigued enough. And I think there's some fatigue that goes into all of these different things that have to build all these different worlds. I didn't feel that here. I didn't feel that here because I know in the back of my mind that Marvel does a good job at it. And I'm legitimately interested in Marvel building a new world. Because remember, everything else that we've seen has taken place in worlds that we're very familiar with. Yeah. Even though Westview was a concoction of Wanda's psyche, still though, it was a place

in the world that we know, right? With rules that we know, with boundaries that we know. With Sam and Buck, that felt a lot like Winter Soldier. We were back to that sort of rhythm and, and, and, and, and, and things of that nature. But in this, the Time Varan's Authority, I know them from the comic books, but I was kind of hooked in to kind of seeing how everything was going to work and how they're going to explain everything

and see Loki kind of traverse and have ventures and journeys in a new place. So I was kind of there with it. I gave us some more oxygen. What about you? What did you think? Oh, I love the TVA more than I thought I would. The first thing is like, just the design is so smart.

I know the writer, the head writer of Loki is a big fan of Madman. It damn near just felt like an episode, like a really good episode of badman where it's like a vibe. It's like very much everything looks like it's the 70s. The bureaucracy is like very, very funny because the agents of the TVA, they're not human, but they're not aliens. And at one point, one of them is like, Loki says something about a fish. And the guy's like, what's a fish? What's a fish?

And you just realize you're like, and just so quickly, like they set up the TVA as kind of like this new. thing that is weird we never seen before. We don't know how powerful it is. Like, big spoiler alert, when the dude like pulls out the drawer and Loki sees the infinity stones and the guys basically like, yo, look, these are like paperweights here. Yeah. And like one line, you're just like, oh my God, like what? What are we dealing with here?

You're telling me the thing that we built up for for over a decade and shit here? Yeah. I was like, that's wild. Did you like that part? I did. I also like that because it's setting up the rules of the multiverse a little bit. Because if you read the comic books, the infinity stones only work in the universe that they are,

that they came from. So like, if you have the infinity gauntlet in this universe, and then you take the infinity gauntlet to another universe in the multiverse, they won't work. And so that, when I saw that, I'm like, Okay, that's a big deal. It's a big deal because it shows us that we're somewhere else.

But it's also a big deal because they're setting up multiversal rules. And I think that we all know that Marvel is about to go multiversal. So the timekeepers, that's very important to them, because the timekeepers who are going to be specifically came to conquer it, but the timekeepers themselves, who are going to look to conquer the multiverse itself, or all timelines throughout different multiverses or to keep ordering them, there's going to have to be a through line of their powers.

There's going to have to be a reason why they have power and authority in different timelines and in different universes, and the Infinity Stones don't. So unless you play with the rules a little bit, unless you talk to the audience and explain to them some new powers and some new abilities

and maybe even something that makes the next bad if in fact it's Kane to Conqueror like we expected to be be even more formidable than than Thanos. Wait, so I'm going to put on my nerd hat for a minute because they say early in the episode that if there are too many timelines, which are basically going to get is a multiversal war. And when I hear here like multiversal war, I'm thinking of secret wars. Most recently, Jonathan Hickman did like a big crossover where basically all the multiverses like come together, all the characters come together.

and basically like Dr. Doom was the big bad of that. At the end, yeah. That kind of seems like where they're going with this. And I could see where I don't know if King is going to be the big bad. I would not be surprised if Dr. Doom is like the next like really, really just like everyone's fighting against him. And like, yeah, I got big like, this is Secret Wars vibes throughout this whole entire episode. Could be. In order to get to Secret Wars, you at some point have to bring in a lot of different elements.

right? So you'd have to bring in the beyonders. Yes. And you'd have to bring in because you need a point to where Doom gets the power of the beyonders. And guys, give us a second because we're going into the, we're going to come back to Loki, but this is a very good point that he

brings up. And the Secret Wars in John the Higman's Avengers run, at the end of it, Doom captures the power of the Beyonders and he becomes God King Doom, which would be fantastic if they were able to pull it off in Marvel. I guess the issue with it is it's definitely like years away

because so much has that. We'll even have the Beyonders. We'll even have Doom yet. So, Kang seems like more of a natural fit now because I believe that, I mean, this is not anything novel. You guys can go and watch this on YouTube and guys are talking about it. That Kang is one of these timekeepers.

I just don't know if they're real at this point. I think Kang is one of them. I think Kang's going to be a rogue timekeeper that goes bad for some reason or it's behind something that we don't know for some reason or it's behind a lot of chaos. And in this series, it's going to spin off to Kang having a big problem or being a big problem. So if we get less nerdy, what did you think about kind of like the themes of the episode? Because they are very explicit.

It's not like at various points you kind of realize that like this show is going to try to work on multiple levels. I think the first level is like, is anyone truly good or is anyone truly evil? That seems like Loki's journey. He has to face against an evil version who seems better than him. There's also chaos and order. Loki is chaos. Mobius's order.

And then I think the last one is kind of like free will and destiny. Because like at one point I think Loki says you ridiculous bureaucrats will not dictate how my story ends. And Loki very much is like afraid, like, how do you guys know everything I'm about to do in my life? It freaks him out.

So, like, there's, like, the show's trying to, like, work on multiple levels. And as we've seen, with other MCU shows, it doesn't matter how good the first episode is. It matters if they can land it. Now, you're right. You're right. That to me was the theme of this episode. The theme of this episode to me was, if I sat you down and showed you your entire life, would you really be good or bad?

right? Like would you, if I showed you your entire life, like everything that you've done, right, in a vacuum, would you be hero or villain? You've done some really great things.

You've done some really fucked up things. Most people, right? Now, Loki is different because he's very powerful being. So some of the great things that he's done has probably benefited a lot more people and some of the terrible things that he's done has probably hurt a lot more people, right?

So, you know, you see him saving Thor's life. He saves Thor's life. And saving Thor's life, the Avengers needed Thor. So if Loki doesn't save Thor's life, then the Avengers can't beat Thanos. They can't beat Thanos, right? And if they can't beat him, then maybe the universe is doomed. So maybe you can argue as bad as Loki was in Avengers, the fact that he came around and saved his brother and allowed his brother to get back. and work with the team.

They definitely needed Thor, right? They probably can't retrieve the ether if not for that. So Loki's redemption, it was a huge, huge, huge redemption. Like he was, it was a huge redemption. I think that's why Mobius is such an interesting character. He doesn't really get emotionally attached to anybody or he doesn't say you're bad. He just looks at what you've done. Yeah.

And he uses, and he's very logical. Hey, I think you'll do this because you've done this before. Like, I think you'll do. And one of the reasons why he probably thinks that he can get through to Loki and get Loki to help him. We're going to talk about that a little bit more too, is because he's seen that Loki can and will do heroic things in the future. So he's not looking at this guy as hero or villain.

He's looking at this guy as entity. And how can I use it for what I need. to do for me, you know? I mean, my favorite line from the episode, which speaks to, like, kind of the futility of life in a lot of ways is, like, Bobius goes to Loki, like, he's like, he says something to the effect of, like,

why does someone with so much range want to rule? And then, like, he keeps, like, pestering Loki. He's just like, yeah, but why do you want to rule, like, Earth or the universe? Like, who gives a fuck? And, like, it speaks so much to, like, how a lot of Loki's motivation, When you really look at them, like don't make a lot of sense.

Like, he is kind of like an agent of chaos where he just wants to do things because he feels like it. And I think Mobius and Owen Wilson does this perfectly is so genius in that role. It's because, like you said, he doesn't get emotional. He's the first person, probably in the MCU, who's just as smart as Loki and knows more than Loki, and it makes Loki so nervous. He's just like, how does this guy know what I'm going to do? how does he know what I'm going to think before I do it? And I just think, like, what did you think of Owen Wilson?

Because I think he carried this episode. I love them. He was, he snatched all of Loki's motivations. Yeah. I think one reason why, if I'm thinking about it now, they were able to make us believe that 2012 Loki was close to the Loki that died in Infinity War was because everything that we knew about Loki, he was able to take it from him basically in one scene, you know?

And I don't know if that's going to. going to work for everyone. If everyone is going to believe that somebody's motivation since they were kids, he's always been a jerk to Thor, right? Could be taken away in one scene, but if it could be done, Mobius is the guy to do it. He's just, he was

no nonsense, right in his face and was, was talking that shit to him. You know what I mean? Can I give you, can I give you my top, these are my top two Loki lines really quick? This is like a future level bar. Trust is for children and dogs.

Like, that is like something future would rap. It's such a good fucking line. And then he says at one point, Madame, a god doesn't plead. I was like, the writers have Loki's voice so down. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP

and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, catch up goes rogue, ice cream drips, yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer.

You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business.

So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Some things work better together. Like Narz's soft matte complete concealer and radiant creamy concealer. Soft matte complete concealer erases and blurs imperfections with full coverage. Then radiant creamy concealer evens and brightens with a brightens with a the luxurious texture and radiant finish.

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played by Owen Wilson, Gumbatha Ra, playing Rivona Renslayer. And then Hunter B-15, who is played by Womi Masaku. I like her. I like Hunter B-15. I like people just in the department. You know what I mean?

This is what's important. I don't care about. I don't have any bigger thing. I don't have any bigger goal. I don't have any philosophical goal. I'm just following orders. You can always play with a character like that so much. I love something.

Wait, can we talk about the Minutemen really quick? The Minutemen are like the agents of the TVA. These people are worse than like, aim or like hydrate like agents like why you say that because they're useless like they just get dispatched like nothing at the end of the episode the minute men get burned by fire you're telling me that these are people who are literally like infinity stones are a play thing and like every single time the minute men pop up they're getting their ass kicked that's like gay loki like here but here's the thing mobies is kind of telling everybody he's like you know we know everything like we're the

time variance. We're all powerful. Get with it. And then their little lackeys are fucking shit in the bed, man. I don't like it. I don't like it. How did Loki know about the Avengers time heist? Wait, did he say something about the Avengers time heist? Yeah, we might need another producer to come in. So, Loki knew that there were two. Wow. Hold on for a second. I won't let you guys know something real quick. There's a power struggle going on behind the scenes of the midnight boys. Get out of I want to let you guys know between Jomey who's been dubbed the Sixth Man of the Ringer by Reddit

producer Steve and producer TD who is beginning to call his own number in these podcasts more than anybody else see how we asked for a producer and they just stampeded like crazed hippos to give them

us the answer? I'm telling you. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. I want to say real, real quick, when, you know, when everybody on ready on Facebook was killing us from mispronouncing names and shit, we're calling Zachary Levi or Quinto or whatever the fuck his name is, was not a producer in sight that are like, gosh, all are fucking up. But now? But now? Now, we're trying to save us? I'm phoning a friend and the producers are jumping in.

Okay. In an orderly way. Do one of the producers want to jump in and give me some insight? Because I have this written down in my notes as to how Loki knew about the time heist. Be civil about it, guys, okay? Steve, you wanted or should I grab it? You can grab it, Jomey. All right, bet. So Loki knew that there were two Tony Starks there.

He mentioned how he could smell the smell of Axe. You know, he could smell two Tony Starks. And he knew that that was how the Tesserag got, you know, disloved. And he's like, hey, they went back in time. He assumed it was because of him not thinking of, you know, Thanos. He actually did say that. You're right. Yeah.

Okay. That's how you knew. Steve, do you have a take equal time? Exactly what Jomey said. I think it's a pretty big reach for Loki to just smell another Tony Stark cologne and be like, well, they clearly traveled back in time to fuck with this. I like that. It's a bit of a reach.

It's a huge reach. But once again, they're connecting. dots here. Wait, can we go? Another reach that I was just like, y'all are slick for this. The writer's room is real slick for this. Is like, they need to explain away basically all of endgame and the Avengers making a bunch of branch timelines. They're like, oh, no, the Avengers are supposed to do that.

That's fine. I was like, really? That's all we're going to get. The first time they said that, right? I thought of the ancient one explaining that to Banner. Yes. And I was like, I thought about the fact. she said, hey, don't do this, it's going to fuck everything up.

And then Banner going, no, we're going to do this and we're going to make it, I need the stone. So then what they're saying is, because here's the thing, they're saying nobody is supposed to fuck with the timeline, except for the people that are supposed to fuck with the timeline. So it's interesting. And it gets into all of these actual philosophical questions. So you can fuck with the timeline, right? Yes. But only if you're supposed to. Wait, so this is another thing I have to ask.

Cap, at the end of end game, his whole, like, he goes off on a journey to, like, replace everything in the timeline, effectively acting like a minute man. But then he goes back to be with Peggy, which would make a branch timeline. Without a doubt, because he goes back and he puts things back because that was what Banner was saying would happen. Yes. Right? Banner promised the ancient one that they would go back and put everything. back and that things would move on like only they didn't because Steve went back and mess with it.

But if what the TVA was saying in this episode is true, Steve was even supposed to make that branch timeline because if he wasn't, then the TVA would have popped up and brought Steve back to where he was supposed to go. So that's why I'm confused. Who, like, I guess maybe they'll answer this. Who gets to have a branch timeline? Like, who gets to decide, like, oh, like Steve gets a branch timeline, but this time variant Loki does. I don't know.

All right. This leads me to my next question. Sure. Not to be a negative Nancy about everything. Are we post snapped out? Like, I'm at the end of my rope with, like, everything that comes from the MCU now, having to reference endgame. Because, like, maybe this is also the pandemic and all of this stuff was supposed to come out way before. But like, damn, since Spider-Man far from home, we've been dealing with, like, the Avengers, time-high shenanigans, the post-snap world.

And I'm like, can we move on, please? I bet you hate the Fourth of July, huh? You just want all Americans to move on away from the Declaration of Independence and a Revolutionary. We'll just forget about it, even though it changed everything. Even though it changed everything, Charles was like, I'm sick of Christmas. one guy's birth changed the whole world but I'm sick of it we don't have to like Charles is like

who cares about Thanksgiving so what and then smallpox probably killed them all and then they got killed by the people the better metaphor is if an aunt is bringing the sweet potatoes and for a couple years in a row

she's slacking they're not the same at a certain point I'm gonna have to tap another auntie and be like you got to come fix this. Oh, look, Aunt, Aretha,

you're 61 now. When you was 56, these sweet potato these yams was hitting. But you're old. I don't know if you can't smell anymore or if the diabetes

is messing with your vision, you don't know. But I'll be honest with you. Now, we gotta tap in aunt T. That's all I'm saying. T.T. That's all I'm saying. No, so look,

I, these are questions that are going to be answered. And by the way, whenever you start messing around with time and timelines and things like this, and you're dealing with an audience that is primarily made up of nerds,

you're going to get people who sit around drinking Dr. Pepper and eating Cheetos and asking these questions. You're going to get that. That's what's going to happen. But it just opened up all this. I'm looking at it and I'm thinking all kinds of things. The Infinity Stones thing was, to me, that's the thing that I worried about, like, literally the least, okay?

But some of this other stuff, I'm trying to figure it out. The whole branch timeline thing that they're working with now, I'm just like, it doesn't really make sense. I love the first episode so much. I'm viving with you. But even when they're talking about the multiverse, stay with me here, rock with me. When we talk about the multiverse,

we are talking about different, like, different Earths, different universes that are existing at the same time. That's why, like, in the comic books, Earth 616 is just one of many Earths. And that earth has a timeline. Rocking with me, right? Yes. Now, in Loki, they're making it seem like every single time

there's a branch timeline that's a new multiverse. And I'm like, I don't know if it works that way. Is it a new multiverse or is it a branch timeline in the same multiverse? But here's the thing. There's only one multiverse. And there's different universes in each. And that universe all has one timeline. Can one universe have two timelines?

I don't think so. Like there should be a sacred timeline for each universe. So there's multiple sacred timelines for every single universe. So let's take Earth 616 from the comic books. That would have one sacred timeline. If you branch all from Earth 616, and that's going to be a new universe is what you're saying. But it's all on the same tree.

So if we have the ultimate universe, that has a sacred timeline. And each of those sacred timeline, 616 ultimate universe, have the sacred timeline, which is like the tree trunk and branch. and branches. Right.

They didn't explain that, though. They didn't. They didn't explain it. Audience also, we are not high right now. We're not high. Well, I am. I'm still going on that purple work. Shout out your little white.

But I guess, I guess there'll be some explanation. But this also, though, we find out in this situation that, you know, Loki is being recruited to track down himself. That in and of itself raises

some questions, right? Because they're varying loki's that exist all over in different universes. Are they causing problems in their own universe? Are they jumping around in universes and causing problems? They're variants. So apparently, they must have blew the timeline

wherever they are. So whenever they blew the timeline, did they create a branch reality wherever they did? For me, I was looking at it. I'm trying not to go too deep into it because I'm just not smart enough. But there's a problem to go deep? Because I'm like, are these times?

variance or are they from another universe? And the best way I can describe this is is the X-Men. If you take someone like you have Gene Gray, but you have Rachel Gray, and Rachel Gray is from the Days of Future Past timeline. So she's technically in the same timeline as the X-Men. But if you take, I don't know, like Ultimate Wolverine, he is not 616 Wolverine. He is a different- universe. Completely different universe, completely different timeline. And they have not explained what's the difference between a character that's from a different universe and a character who's just from a different branch timeline because I'm going to get Galaxy Brain. If there's other variant lokies, are these different time variant lokies or these different

multiversal lokies? And did they open up new universes every time they became variance? Because essentially that's what they were trying to stop Loki from doing. They were trying to stop Loki from branching the timeline off and going, so look, I'm telling you, woo, woo, midnight boys are back. Like I'm telling you, but these are the questions that are going through my head as I'm watching the show. Now, the show itself, the visual look of it, it looks different than any other Marvel show that we've seen. Yes.

It looks different. What do you think about the look? It seems to be very influenced by Doctor Who. You know, I love, do you like Doctor Who? I couldn't fuck with Doctor Who. I'm going to be real with you. I couldn't get it. It's too much for me.

That's deep. Would you call that deep sci-fi? That's deep sci-fi. Yeah, it's deep sci-fi. It's too over my head. I did like the look of this show. And I didn't think I would because I'm like a Thor, Ragnarok, like, damn, anytime there's somebody Norse,

just to make it look like that shit. But I fucked with this. It looked good. It looked really good. And that Owen Wilson looked good in it. Like the little jackets that they all have, I would just be in the time variance for the fits, to be honest. Yeah.

It almost reminded me a little. little bit of the look. It was a show that not a lot of people watched. Oh, I guess people watched. I'm not sure. Remember Legion from FX? Yes, I do remember Legion. Yeah.

And so the look was kind of similar. Legion was a little bit brighter at times. But whenever something's set in a place that doesn't really have time, what you have to do is you have to kind of in the set decoration and in the look and feel of the show, you have to make it feel timeless. You don't want to show too much crazy technology because then it's like, oh, my God, they're in the future. You don't want it to look too primitive because it's like, oh, my God, that they're in the past.

It's very difficult to make a show that doesn't seem like it's set in any particular time. And they do that here because there's a mix of, sometimes they do high-tech things on low-tech devices. You haven't seen any, like, any ray guns. No. You know what I mean? So I like it when a show exists like that. It looks like it exists. They did a great job of making it look like it is in a number.

another dimension to where... I mean, the aesthetics, some of the aesthetics in the style sometimes looks like the 70s, but sometimes like the architecture looks like it's from the 80s, but like the computers they're looking are like analog. They did a very good job of making me like,

buy that this is like some like different dimension we've never seen before. I thought it just, it looked like fucking great. It looks incredible. One thing I really want to ask you really quick, the TVA doesn't look that fun. to work at.

What do you think are the top three worst jobs in the MCU, like places to work? Oh, top three worst jobs in the MCU. Okay. Shield analyst? Ooh, like one of the motherfuckers who are on like the helicaria and it's gotsly getting blown up?

Yeah. Pretty bad. I know it was bad because that one guy was playing video games instead of like paying attention to his job fared of the world on the line and this guy's playing Gallagher. You know what I mean? So the shield analyst Also, it's bad because Shield is up to all kinds of bullshit. Remember, like, when they were in there and, like, Pierce was asking them to go get Steve and they go,

well, yo, if we're going to be asked to go capture Captain America, then we should know why we're doing it. And he was like, no. They're like, look, this is what happened. This is what I'm telling him, to go get him now. So Shield analyst is one. I know number two. It got to be an intern at Stark Industries. Because if Stark ain't paying the Avengers,

he definitely ain't fucking paying his interns. What makes that shit worse is like, technically if you want to be real until like Tony came back, Stark Industries was really known for like war crimes. So you really have to realize you were an unpaid intern at Stark Industries while they were like dropping bombs on like Middle Eastern countries. Helping to kill.

Intern at Stark Industries. is like number two for me. That's number two. And then what would be number three? Number three worst job in the MCU. I got one. I never understood this. At the end of Avengers Age of Ultron,

they show guys, they're at the Avengers compound. Remember this? Yeah. And it's before they give you the new team of Avengers. And it's like, you know, it's War Machine and Scarlet Witch and all of those people. They're like, hey, they're not a team yet,

but we'll whip him in the shape. These are the new Avengers before it goes to the Civil War. And they show guys that are like jogging. Remember that? Yes, I do. Hood. And Steve is like, I'm right at home. Who the fuck are those guys?

Like, if the Avengers have like Avengers troops, because remember, there's no more shield at this point. You know, shield is gone at this point. So if the Avengers have like Avengers troops, then that must be a pretty suck-ass job. That job must really blow a little bit. If you want to know what was worse, I'm thinking about this now,

if you're like the janitor at like the Avengers compound, can you imagine the shits that like the Hulk would be taking and you got to clean that up? Why would he shit as the Hulk? You would turn back to banner before he shit. If you were the Hulk, you wouldn't take one shit as the Hulk just to figure out what the people look like. I don't think he's ever shitted as the Hulk, bro.

Do you think the fuck's poop is green? No, first of all, before we even get there, he doesn't shit as the Hulk. Yes, he does. No, he doesn't, bro. Banner, if he has to take a shit or piss, Banner is not fucking turning back human to take a shit in piss and then turning back in the Hulk.

He doesn't shit as the Hulk. Yes, he does, bro. Number one, no, he doesn't. Number one, he couldn't even fit into a bathroom stall to shit as the Hulk. He's not. If it's just compound, they don't have Hulk-sized bathrooms.

They have a big stall that he can go in case. But think about it. How can he even sit on the toilet? The toilet going to break. To do a thousand pounds. Maybe more. Like, no, he doesn't shit as the Hulk. See, what a sick bastard you are.

We got off the thing. But anyway, that's the last job that would be bad. And by the way, I'll say this, if the Hulk is shitting at the Avengers compound and somebody does have to clean it up, that's a pretty bad job. It's a pretty, pretty terrible job. All right. Yo, before we, like, before we wrap up, sure.

We were talking about it, like, briefly. What does Loki have to do, in your opinion, to maybe, like, fix the trajectory of the Marvel Disney Plus shows? And that's not to say they've been bad. They've been good. But I think the, the critiques of the, like, they start off well and by, like, the end, they peter out, or they don't have enough wider implications for the MCU.

Those have been like what the people have been saying. Am I being a hater or is that what you've seen? No, I'd agree with you. I think that's true. Good question. Personally, I think that, and I've said this before on the podcast, that I think that we have to temper our expectations for what these shows are going to do.

What they seem to do really well is tell standalone stories about experiences that these characters are having using aspects and sometimes bigger aspects, bigger sort of concepts, and sometimes smaller ones of the MCU in general. But it seems to me, at least what we've gotten so far, it's really been more about these specific characters journeys than it has been about building out the bigger world at the MCU. And if that's what Loki is, we're going to have to be okay with that.

Now, it would seem that with all of the concepts that this show is playing with, if there was going to be a show that was going to be either a pallet cleanse or a way to get us into some of the loftier things that the MCU is going to try to do, then it would be this one. But I think we would be doing ourselves a disservice to be expecting it. So what I would say, what this has to do more than anything, in my opinion, is it has to get. give us a reset on Loki, right? Because the Loki that we know, he died. So he's gone. The Loki that we know. That Loki's gone.

So we watched a Loki that had been at odds with his brother, that had taken over Asgard, basically, opposing as the king, that had to try to take over the earth and then slowly came back, right? Teaming up with Thor in Dark World, teaming up with Thor and Ragnarok, losing his mother, losing his father, who's being confronted with his sister

who slowly came back. That guy is gone. That guy died. We have to, they have to successfully build from scratch this Loki. What his motivations are, what he's going to do, why he's going to do it.

Because this Loki is going to, I guess in some way, exist in the Grander MCU for a while. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Maybe this is this Loki's Swan song. Maybe this show is the Swan Song of Loki.

I don't know. If I'm doing predictions, I think this show is almost like a eulogy for the Loki we knew. And if they're setting up Young Avengers, one of the most famous Young Avengers runs has Kid Loki

running around. So it might be saying like, hey, everybody, we know you love Tom, say goodbye to Tom, but we're going to make it okay and make you guys think that there can be other time variant versions of Loki, and they can keep a character that, like, is a fan favorite in it with Tom not playing him.

Maybe. Maybe. And, you know, we're also probably going to see Lady Loki in this. You know, there have been, there's some talk about casting and what we saw in the trailer. So maybe, who knows? I will also say, we just got to be, if what I want from the show or what I want from the audience is I realize, we just got to be okay with them viving. You know what I'm saying?

Like, it's just like, the MCU got Owen Wilson and, like, going bar, for bar with like Tom. Like let's just, let's just vibe with it. Let's just be happy with it. Good start. Good start. Very excited about Loki.

We are also very excited that you guys joined us on The Midnight Boys today. Of course, you have to follow us at Ring of Verse. It's on Facebook, IG, and Twitter. Follow and share the show.

We are trying to grow this community. You're not going to go on another podcast and get the discussion of whether or not the Hulk takes the shit. This is the only place you can get it, baby, midnight boys. You have to check in with Mallory and Rubin

for the beginning of her deep dives into Loki that's going to be every Friday. There's real heady stuff that's going to happen over there. She's going to do that for the entire season. She's going to have special guests as well. It's another thing. She's very connected in this industry. If you want to go somebody, go through Malice. She's very

connected in this industry. So be sure to tune into that every Friday. New schedule. Midnight Boys. on Wednesday, Mallory Rubin in the House of Mal on Friday. Before we go, we cannot say goodbye without our outro. Chuck, what you got for us,

baby. The Midnight Boys are back. The Midnight Boys are lit. I'm not the Incredible Hulk, but boy, do I got to take a shit. Oh, Jesus. We out. Hulk tried to take the elevator, so he still does human things.

If you can take the elevator as the Hulk, could definitely go into a stall and take a shit. I got to be honest with you. You're probably right. Let me tell you why. Because I think about something. I think about in game, he had been Hulk for a while and he had put everything together, the brains and the brawn, you know?

Think about that breakfast that he was eating at the diner. Stop. And he had coffee with it? And he had coffee with it. He had the lungs, bro. Yeah, yeah, he probably does shit as the Hulk. But not till later. But here's the thing.

How is he doing it in a. regular diner bathroom. Is he doing one of those squat over the things? Or does he have to go all the way home? He can't. So he can only go in like one bathroom that he designs for himself? This makes no sense. Bro, do you know how much of Hulk weighs?

The Hulk can't sit on a regular toilet. Yeah, so he would do the hover thing when like somebody's like pissed all over the thing. He can't get in the stall, Charles. He's too big. The Hulk, what, eight feet tall. He's like, he, anyway. Midnight court. Ha ha ha.