The Ringer-Verse - 'Loki' Ep. 3: Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

Van and Charles return to touch on the world of nerd news and talk about the latest 'Suicide Squad' trailer as well as the upcoming chapter in the Transformers franchise (04:49). They then give their instant reactions to the third episode of 'Loki,' titled "Lamentis" (14:07). They also discuss the importance of a major character reveal and how it can positively affect the MCU (40:28). Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if the Len Bias story hosted by Jordan Ritter-Kahn is the Ringer's latest narrative podcast. You can find new episodes every Wednesday on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. Here's a quick trailer. You've heard his name, Lynn Bias, 1980s phenom, second pick in the NBA draft. And then, cocaine, tragedy, one of the most shocking deaths in sports history. 35 years later, Bias' legacy is still making an impact. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, this is What If, the Lynn Bias story. I'm Jordan Ritter-Kahn.

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.

Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiatoradio.com. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predict. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus.

Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Welcome into the ringerverse. This of course, the ringer's nexus podcast fee for all things fandom.

And we are Charles Holmes, the host of the ringer music show and Van Lathen, the host of higher learning with Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay. But together we are known. as of the midnight boys. All right, of course, you tuned into the midnight boys. That means we're giving you instant reactions, knee jerk, responses, and not quite thought out theories to the MCU Disney Plus show, Loki. All right?

So join Mallory Rubin on Friday. She's going to give you the more thought-out deep dive analysis. It's a lot of good stuff going on over there. It's very soothing to listen to Mallory and her guests talk about the show. They work through so many things. Did you find yourself soothes by Mallory and them? Chuck? Yes.

I'm always impressed. It's like going to university and you're just sitting in the back. You're just having a good time. It's great. I love the House of Mal. Yeah, House of Mal every Friday. Shout out to Joanna Robinson for joining last week. That was amazing.

Also, check out Charles is here. Charles has an audio feature where he spoke to Tom Hidelson and the entire locally team. Now, when you talk to Tom Hidlinson, did you ask him about Taylor Swift? man, no, I did not. I'm not out here being a chatty-patti word up to Dame Dash. Chatty-patty. I want to know. You don't want to know?

No, I have a weird relationship with Taylor. So honestly, me and Tom would probably agree. What's your relationship with Taylor? I just, it's like forever. Everybody's like, listen to her music. And I'm like, no, like, I'm fine. Like, I just don't need this in my life. And they're like, you don't have opinions on Taylor's stuff?

I'm like, I have none. I honestly think it's racist that I have to have an opinion on Miller Swift. Just leave me a little. It's racist. Wow. Interesting. You got that James Dean Daydream look in your eyes. I got that red lipstick

on the front that you fight. We can go back. Are you? Now, we come back every time because we never go out of style. That shit goes. I don't do a fuck. The weirdest thing, the weirdest thing that's

ever happened in my life is that I'm a huge Kanye fan, even now. and I ended up dating like a Supreme Taylor fan and I just like the like the universe laughing at me the timekeepers are like ha ha ha we got you so a lot of arguments in this household or so it goes

you can't keep your wild ass on the road oh wait also van van I got an update before we get into Nerd News Minute what's the update I did it I am like a pre-super soldier Steve Rogers in the gym my entire body is on fucking fire. Mine is too. I literally like I live in a four-floor walk-up and it legit probably took me 10 minutes

to walk. It sucks, right? It's bad. Yeah. My ass hurts. These guys were making me do like these, you know, because I said I wanted to get in shape and they're like, okay, we got to train your butt. And I haven't really been butt-intensive in my life.

And so now it hurts to sit down. You know what I mean? It's like, it's tough. No, but look, we're doing it. Going to the bathroom, like I got to do the old man. I'll be honest. Like, I'm working out my glutes, my hips. You know.

Generally, women, they want their hips not to lie. My hips can lie. My hips would fail the fucking lie. It's very true. Very true. All right, now, check out Charles' audio feature. Also, stay tuned for even more surprises that we're going to have here on the Ring of Versfebys because we'll be doing a lot of stuff.

There's a lot of movies dropping. As soon as we drop, they drop, we're going to pick them up. Now, it is time to do something we haven't done it a little while, but we have to because there's been so much happening. on the internets in the last couple of days and weeks. Let's do it. A Nerd News Minute. All right.

So let's start off with the Suicide Squad trailer. Chuck Wagon. Two Gun Chuck. Did you watch the Suicide Squad trailer? What did you think? I did. I loved it. My hype was out of 10.

It's still out of 10. The movie is going to be incredible. I honestly think James Gunn might be like that dude. Like the best director of. superhero cinema. If he can land this, he might take the crown. He is so good. You don't think that the Rousseau's would have a claim to that?

Hmm. Interesting. I like the Rousseau's. I like what they did. But I wouldn't say any of the Rousseau's films. I respect the Rousseau's films for the scale and the fact that they could pull it off. Like, Infinity War Endgame, but none of those are actually like my favorite. Like, I don't put any of the Rousseau films in my top 10.

Winter Soldier. Wait, did the Rousseau's do Winter Soldier? Okay, never scratch that. Fuck that. James Gun has a lot more work to do. Rousseaus. I also will say the Rousseau's, the work they did on community, like, bro, it's so good.

So good. So actually, no, James Gunn has a lot more work to do. Thank you for saving me for myself. But you know what I do think you're right about, though? And maybe Best isn't really the white way to put it, but maybe the most inventive or how can you say? Okay, so the Rousseau's are working with Captain America and the Avengers. James Gunn is like, if at Suicide Squad is good,

James Gunn is getting it done with like, Cars of the Galaxy, Corkyar Characters. It seems like he's a little bit more inventive. Seems like he's a little bit, takes those different chances, but I put him right there in that Takwatiti character, like category right there. So, yeah, but this trailer was great.

The trailer was great. There was some controversy because people were saying that, you know, how could Bloodsport put Superman in the ICU? He did it with a kryptonite bullet. You guys aren't reading your comics because that's actually canon. But no, it was pretty good. On a scale of 1 to 10, what would you give the trailer? Did you already rate that?

Rank it? I don't know. I don't have any rating for the trailer. It's just like, it's just, it sustained the energy. And it made me actually care about the narrative. I was just like through the other trailers. like, oh, this looks like a dope movie. And now I'm like, oh, like,

Idris might actually, like, kill this role in a way. It's two different characters, but in a way maybe Will Smith didn't. And I did like Will Smith as Deadshot. But he didn't really have that much to do. I do think, to your point, though, one thing I think James Gunn can do that maybe, like, people like the Russo's or other people,

Nolan, whatever, all of the big superheroes can do, is he makes you believe in characters that have no business being on screen. Like, he makes you, he makes drags in, a star. He makes Rocket Raccoon and group work. In a way, like, I don't know if, like, the Russo brothers could have made Guardians

of the Galaxy as well, because James Gunn is very good at taking, like, the, a pocket of a universe, and, like, just fucking up these characters that are, like, sea list at best. So that's why I'm excited about Suicide Squad. Yeah, yeah, and it made me believe that a suicide squad movie could be good after the last

Suicide Squad movie was all over the place. It had some moments, and it was fun to watch at times, but it was all over the place. And so this kind of makes me believe that this movie actually could be something Wait, really quick for you before we get off this. Sure. Because I just finished Harley Quinn. I just finished season two.

You loved it. What do we feel about Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn? I like her. After watching the cartoon, I was just like, damn, there's something about this version of Harley Quinn that I wish was carried over into the movies that I have not seen yet.

And it made me want a little bit something a little bit different from the next iteration of Harley Quinn. Is that too harsh? No, did you enjoy birds of prey? I watched it about 20 minutes and I was like, this is just not for me. This is not my wave.

I dug it. I think she does a good job. I think she obviously plays, she plays it a little over the top at times, but I think she's perfect for Harley Quinn. I think she does a good job. And she's committed to the role. Everybody else is in the DCU out of the DCU.

She has been the one constant. to be honest with you. She's coming back. She's coming back. She's coming back. She loves the role. This isn't me saying that she doesn't deserve the role. She's bad. It's more so saying I would like to see in Suicide Squad, if they can give her that extra little spice that like really defines Harley as a character instead of it being kind of like a, oh, like she's really good as Harley. But like, after the movie, I'm like, I don't give a shit.

So yeah. But cool. Yeah. Yeah. So they released all the DCEU costumes, Supergirl, Shazam family. You know, they would look okay. The Supergirl costume is comic accurate based upon the way Supergirl is being portrayed right now. It looked good. I really couldn't care less about any of the DC-EU costume stuff until they give us movies that we can enjoy. Wow, that's harsh.

That is so harsh. I dug the Supergirl costume. I thought it looked amazing. It's fine. Yeah, I don't care. I will say it didn't get me excited, though. It didn't make me want to see Flash more. Wait, did seeing photos of Michael Keaton, though, as Batman excite you?

now because I know they can fuck it up. So it's like it, nothing excites me. Well, it'll excite me is being in the movie and being about 40 minutes in and going, okay, this is entertaining.

So let's make the film, make it good. You've lost. D.C. right now has lost its excitement cashy. I know the suicide squad is D.C. I'm hyped about the suicide squad, but it's almost different

because they pulled in a Marvel ringer for it. So I look at it in a different way. But we're going D. DC, they got some work to do. They're almost like the 76ers at this point. You know, they flamed out too many times, you know, in the postseason air. There's like, fully want shame on you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. All right. And the last thing, Transformers, Beast Wars. Who.

Who. I love Beast Wars. Were you too old for Beast Wars? I was, but I watched it anyway. Beast Wars was incredible. So come on mad early in the morning. and I would sit there with like a bowl of cereal, like, fuck it. Who cares?

I'm 18. You were 18 when Beast Wars came out? I think so. I can't remember. Like, when the Beast Wars dropped? Beast Wars came out in 1996, so I was four. I was 16 when it came on. I was 16 when Beast Wars came on.

I used to watch it. I don't care. I was in the 10th grade, 11th grade, waking up watching Beast Wars. And now, guess what? I get to be excited. Transformers Rise of the Beast. directed by Stephen Cable Jr. from Creed 2. The Leaves are Dominique Fishback,

Love Turner Juice and a Black Messiah, and Anthony Ramos from In the Heights. Let's hope they got some dark-skinned transformers. Woo! Anthony Ramos! They didn't put no dark-skinned people in the movie. They fucking fuck that movie. Wow.

Wait, have you seen in the Heights? No. I don't watch that type of shit. I'm going to be honest. I had to watch it for the Ringer Music Show. And part of me feels like, you know, for my darkest skin brothers and sisters, you dodge a bullet because that movie was trash. So look, I did watch, I did watch La La Land, though.

La La Land was fucking fantastic. What did you watch? Oh, my God. La La La La Land was great, bro. I was in La La La Land. La Land had me happy that I moved to Los Angeles and shit. Like, La La La Land was amazing to me. I'm going to be honest with you.

I'll be honest with you. La La La La La La La La, it was the best movie that year. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, over Moonlight? Yeah, yeah. Moonlight is a fantastic movie. My man, Van Wins an Oscar. He's hanging out with the white folks. He's getting invited to this and that.

And now he's too good for some moonlight. I see you. Moonlight is amazing. La La La La La La Land was better. Damn. Moonlight is so good, bro. And I was so good. happy when they won. So happy when they won. This is the most

hater take ever. God damn. Whatever. I fucking said it. But anyway, back to Beast Wars, I will say. I feel like the younger folks will look at screenshots like our screen grabs from Beast Wars and not it'd be like, what were y'all on? This is, this looks terrible. But back in the day, Beast Wars, it did the thing. It was like cutting edge. Yes. It was incredible. It's cutting edge. All right. That's enough. We went Her news five minutes. That's fine.

So now we have to get into episode three of Loki. Loki, Loki time. Do it. That's a Loki. So being that we're doing a Loki situation right now, we're about to get into it. We have to do it. We have to do it. Steve, play our spoiler warning, please.

We're getting ready to talk about the episode. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. So, we are ready. 40-second recap time. Steve, let's go now. We open up with Sylvie manipulating the mind of a TVA member in order to find out what the timekeepers are.

She then steps into the TVA and in an attempt to reach the gold elevators to the timekeeper chambers. Loki apprehends her and inadvertently transports them to Lamentus 1 during an apocalyptic event. With the broken timpad, they have taped to escape imminent doom and learn mortify each other along the way. They board an escape train to discuss family. Travety and love. Logie is drunk and starts a fight that gets them off thrown off the train. Looking for another way out,

Sylvie reveals that the employees of the TVA are, in fact, former variants under the TVAs control. They then attempt aboard the ark and escape and fight their way through the quietest city just as they are about the reason made me restrained. Lovia and Sylvie remained stranded.

Time. Was that even English, man? At the end, it wasn't. I don't really know what you said near the end there. But what's the time, Steve? We got 36 seconds. It counts.

It counts. By the way, this is, okay, I'm going to be honest with you. This is the last time I let somebody else write the 42nd recap. I'm going to write my own because this is too long. You got details in here that fucking don't need to be in here, Steve. And I know what's happening. It's you and it's that fucking TD. This is all because of producer TD's plot to actually become one of the Midnight Boys.

All right. Whoa, I'm defending. I'm defending Steve here right now. Okay. Then every single week you want something different. You're like, who's writing my recap? Oh, y'all usually give me the recap. Oh, I don't watch you all to write my recap anymore.

No, Steve did his job. I'm changing. I'm changing it. I'm changing it. You can't say thank you, though, for writing the recap? I said thank you before. I don't need to listen. Can you say it on air? Instead of making fun of what was a good recap just because you can read it?

Steve told me that he was anti-critical race theory. So before this whole thing, wait, wait, before this whole thing, like I get on. just real quick. I get on the thing, and Steve goes, and Steve goes, I'm so sick of this. The first thing he says,

he goes, man, your sound looks good, you look good. I'm so sick of this 1619 project. It makes me sick that they're teaching this garbage in schools.

Oh my God. Steve, what the hell? Out of nowhere? I mean, if you want to debate it on his merits, we can, but like,

if you just want to throw that in there. So, so anyway. Van, get out of here. You were talking about La La La Land was better than Moonlight, and now you're trying to divert

and put it on White Boy, Steve. It's a movie. I won't let it happen. I don't let it happen. I enjoy La La La Land more than I enjoyed Moonlight. Moonlight was an amazing movie. And for the rest of the pod, I can't take your opinion seriously. I'm sorry, Steve. You're still an ally. But I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Monolith. Monolith group thing. Okay, quick overall thoughts on this episode. So people generally beat me up. So I'm going to try to say this in the most positive way I can't. But at the end of this episode, when it ended, my first thought, like, I thought something was wrong.

Like, I was like, wait, what? I was like, that's the episode. I was like, that's it. Not even in a hater way. And I'm more so, like, I was, like, scrolling to see if there was, like, an after-credit scene. If I missed something, I just, I was kind of confused in a way. Van, what was your first thought? It was cool.

The episode had its fun parts and its things that worked. And the things that worked really worked. I thought that the chemistry between Sylvie and Loki, which was the point of this episode, this is the episode along a journey where your two main characters are walking around and telling stories about the past and exchanging things that make them sort of tethered to one another. Yeah.

Tethered the way two interdimensional earths could be in a movie that's going to come out pretty soon. But yeah, overall, I felt just like you. when the episode was over, I was like, huh, that's it. And because it seemed like it was building to something that was going to make the episode have a little bit more weight. The way that it ended felt a little fillery to me. It felt just a tad bit like this was one of those sort of throwaway exposition episodes.

Now, that doesn't mean that they didn't try some new things here. I think this would have more action than any of the other ones. but I personally thought that the action for some reason there were a lot of fights, that it actually detracted away from what I had liked about episodes one and two. Yes. The action wasn't very big.

It wasn't very consequential. It was very kung fu fighting hand-to-hand combat style stuff. It didn't really add anything to the episode. And it wasn't really that cool to see. I know people have been complaining about the fact that this didn't seem very much like a superhero show. This episode seemed like it was a little bit more of a superhero show, and it didn't really work as much for me.

Yeah, I think the things that worked about the episode was definitely Loki, Sylvie, fighting that relationship. I think the Soviet character was great. What I think didn't work is that we spent two episodes caring about Loki and Mobius. It was all around them. and then when you introduce Sylvie, now I feel like I'm back at square one.

It's almost like I'm watching another show again, like I'm watching a pilot. And I do think that not having Owen Wilson in this episode was probably the reason that I felt that way is because I was invested so much in, like, Loki and Mobius. And Sylvie, I'm like, I'm having to fall in love with her for the first time. And the actress did a great job.

but I don't know if having two kind of slow episodes because episode two is a little bit exposition themes to people talking and this episode was very much exposition themes to people talking. There was even a point during the episode where I was like, they get on a train,

get thrown off the train, then they have to walk to the arc and then the arc explodes. And I'm just like, what was that journey all about? Like, well, why don't, we go through this? Why did we spend a half hour on like this ride

to almost nowhere? I think that's going to have to do with who comes back to get them. I think the TVA is probably going to end up having to come back and get them. Absolutely. And so being, and so that just giving you a device for the TVA to come back and get them. But once again though, to your point,

the whole thing about the arc is that they're on the art, they get thrown off the art, they got to make it back to the ark. It would almost been better if they stayed on it. You know what I mean? If they they stayed on it and then realized it wasn't going anywhere. But I'm not criticizing the storytelling as much as the episode. The episode was a good episode.

I'm saying, for me personally, for this show, which I think has been the most adventurous. And really, to this point, three episodes in, maybe the best entry in the Disney Plus series, Marvel MCU stuff. This one just kind of felt like, was just sort of there a little bit. Yeah, it just exists. Well, the other thing, too, is that I feel like,

at least with the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, within the first three episodes, the world was expanding. And we were going all over jet setting, seeing all these different places. It felt like it was in the Marvel universe. And I think the reason that maybe I dislike this episode is that it did not seem grounded in the universe

that we love. This was a new planet, new characters, new background. The only person that I had known was Loki. So it didn't feel as much like it did anything for me in terms of like making me keep falling in love with this universe. It was like a planet. I was like, this could be any planet. You know? What did you think about their dynamic? Love it. Sophia DiMartino did an amazing job. Because effectively, you're asking her to play off Tom Hiddleston. but also be a version of Loki. So she has to give us stuff that we know Loki is as a character, but different enough.

So it's just not like she's basically just acting like she's Tom. And it was beautiful. I think her anger at Loki, the whole thing was hilarious. Her being the straight man, she did a great job with that. And that's actually something that I think worked, is that we're always seeing Loki as the straight man to like Thor. like Thor is always doing some dumb shit or he's always being like this brute

and Loki always has to be the smart guy and in this episode we get to see like a drunk Loki and a Loki who's like who doesn't really care that much and you have Sylvie who's like what are you doing? We have a job to do why are you getting drunk? My thing is like every time I see Loki

acting jolly I have to remember that this is a Loki that only days or weeks or whatever it was before was trying to take over the whole world. It's just I don't want to keep bringing people back to that, but this is, like, this character's had like a magnificent turn in these last two episodes that he really has. He was the thing. He was gone. He's sweaty, hair all over the place, killing fucking kids. You know what I mean? Like, killing, destroying New York City. And now it's like,

the mother used to turn flowers into frogs for me. I'm like, really, Doc? Like, this is Thor Ragnarok Loki? If we want to be, if we want to be, if we want to be, if we want to be real? Sure, yeah, we talked about it. We already talked about this, but like the way, the jolly way he just goes through life, I'm like, this is not post-Avendors, Loki at all.

Yeah, it's interesting. So Sylvie, this lady Loki is simply a version of Loki for a different timeline, or is she Sylvie slash entrantress, who is a creation or a child of Loki in the comic books?

Right now, it's not clear. if she's a variant or if she is the enchantress that we know from the books, or if she is an amalgam, Amalgam, Van went to college, if she is an amalgam of those two characters, what do you think? Because it seems as if when they were sitting down and they were talking in the train diner, she was basically giving him huge hints that she was,

a variant, right? See, I disagree because a couple points, she keeps going, I'm not Loki, which seemed like she either doesn't like being defined that she's potentially a Loki variant, or she might actually just not be Loki. What my prediction is

is that we keep going back to Loki's mother. Loki, we learned that Loki's mother was the one who taught him how to do magic. He keeps going back to how she was pretty much the only one who loved him,

who treated him right. My prediction, Charles's prediction, is what if Sylvie is a version of Loki's mother? If maybe there was another Loki who was so upset that he learned that his mother died, that he tried to make another version of her, a younger version of her. That is where my galaxy brain is going,

where he created this person, whatever you want to call it. But maybe she's a clone or she's some type of magical representation of his mom. Yeah, it was interesting. That, first of all, that brings into a whole different

because, like, if they're having some sparks or something like that, then it's like, all of a sudden, what you're saying is. Wait, were they giving each other, like fuck it out, like fuck him on?

A little bit. They were talking about, you know, she asked him if there was a prince or a princess that he had dated. He said a little bit of both just so everybody knows that. said,

Loki said a little bit of both. Yeah, queer Loki. Yeah, queer I go. So, like, if that's the thing, if they were doing that, and then it's his mom, now we have the porn herb version of the MCU.

A little back to the future vibes, you know? A little back to the future. Wait, I have a really quick question, Van. Sure. Do you think you would be attracted to an alternate reality woman version of Van? Interesting question.

Because I'm right now Because I'm thinking about Right now I'm kind of thick So if she had that real thickness That I like If she had that thickness That I like

Maybe Maybe but also she'd be like Super annoying though Think about how annoying she would be Like think about it I'll call her up Like Yo girl what's going on with you

How you doing? You know what I'm saying? Shit, I'm just over here watching Scott Pilgrin versus the world for the third time in a row and just trying to deconstruct it and watching it and reading it along with the comic books, what's you doing?

Man, I'm about to go. That's what I'm doing. You know what I'm saying? I'm out of here. Like, no. Maybe, what about you, Charles? Would you be attracted to the female version of Chuck? There's no way.

I hate myself too. I hate myself. And here's the thing. Here's the thing. I grew up. Like, I have a twin brother. So for my entire life. You have a twin brother?

I have a twin brother. Like, you have an identical twin brother? Yeah, he has dreadlocks now, but yes, an identical twin brother. Wow. Like, you have a twin? Yes. That's crazy. What's his name?

Barles? Damn. Charles and Barles? Charles and Barles? But I will say, haven't grown up with, like, my reflection, inches away from me at all time, sharing a bedroom, going to the same school, everything. I was like, oh, like, this is terrible. Like, this is like, I love my brother to death.

But I feel like an evil twin brother. trying to kill your brother. That's crazy. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. My brother is the evil version. I'm the nice version. Oh, wow. Gotcha. That's nuts. That's nuts. All right. So, big reveal here is that we learn that through Sylvie, be she enchantress, be she Lady Loki, be whoever, that the TVA agents are actually variants. They're humans as well. Human variants, okay? Loki was under the impression that these people were created by the,

the TVA. We learn that is not true. And this goes back to a scene that opens the entire episode where Sylvie is enchanting Hunter C20 and is trying to get information about the TVA from her. And this is happening in some time where she was just a regular human being. She informs Loki that that time it actually happened hundreds of years before and that at some point she was just a girl that liked margaritas, but that now she is actually a variant that is working for the TVA, which makes you wonder

if the people that work for the TVA are slaves, which rounds out and opens up a plethora. I thought that was the most important thing to happen this episode. Yes. A plethora, a plethora, a plethora of potential conclusions about the TVA. Number one, any time you think that

somebody or you know that somebody is working against their will, automatically whatever's putting them up to work against their will can only be considered evil. It doesn't matter why they're doing it. Before we get too deep in this, I have to ask a quick question. Sure. And I might have to tag in Jomey.

Now. Oh shit. The MVP of last week's episode, Jomey the Explaner, that's Jomey's name. Jomey the Explaner is what we're going to call them. Palmdale's greatest. Shout out to Palmdale. So Sylvie says basically that she asked

go into this minute men's mind, find these memories. This woman really like margaritas and really like chicken strips or whatever. But this is something that was like dug down for 100 years. A hundred years ago, when would that put us in our history? That's like early 1900s. Cool. Where were black people getting margaritas and chicken strips? This looked like our TGI Fridays.

I was like, is like this a new construction? Like, is she like, is this like the tooth that? I think that calls on the question the way time moves and where we really are on the timeline right now. I know that we're supposed to be, they're supposed to be on Lamentis right now in, I think, what, 2077? Yes, I'm also talking about when we're going back and she's drink, Sylvie's drinking margaritas. I know. What I'm saying is, obviously, that wasn't in 1917. Exactly. Obviously, whatever point the TVA is at, it's way in front of that.

Obviously, you can look at that. number one, the way they're dressed and all of that. I thought obviously she's talking about from a different point in time that where we currently are right now watching this and where they currently are right now in that thing. My big question is like, when are these people from? Because if you're saying that like a lot of these people have been plucked and they've been here for hundreds of years,

I'm just, like, I just want to know like where in the timeline they're falling in love with this stuff. Because if this woman loves margaritas, but she's been at the TVA for hundreds of years, maybe the TVA is like years and years away. She also, though, was mesmerizing her. At what point was the Rocks Card thing happening? Remember?

Because they were in Rocks Cart, and that was way in the future. So being that they were way in the future from the Rocks Car thing, it could have been hundreds of years before that point, before that time. Because that was actually a couple

100 years into the future, if I remember at what point that that happened. So when she said hundreds of years ago, they had just come from that time. So maybe she was saying hundreds of years in the past from that point that they were at

when she was actually talking to her because that's what she met her. So when she says, I had to go 100 years in the back and back, he's talking about from the time that she actually came in contact with her. That makes a lot of sense.

Let's bring in Jomey really quick. Jomey, do you have any, this is time. Keeper Corner. Do you have anything to say about all the time travel shenanigans in this episode? Are we wrong about everything we just talked about? For Sylvie's point, she was only in her mind. So while C20, you know, was imagining, I think it was somewhere in the 19, you know, 1970, 1980, 1980s, she was still in 2020, or 2050 in Alabama watching the screens.

You see they pan over to the screens and you see her watching Loki and Moby. enter the Roxcon, the Rock's cart. So there wasn't really much like shenanigans going on there except for her trying to find how many people are guarding the timekeepers in C20's brain. So she never left,

she never physically left 20-50. No, I know she never physically left. I'm more so talking about when is that minute men from? If she had to go 100 years back in her memory, like what year in like the human world is this woman from? And by the way,

they just said that Rock's car was 2050. So it wasn't that far into the future. It looked, it looked real 80s. You know, I was saying with the cups, you know, the drinks, the lighting, you know, it was real bright, real vibrant, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, I guess 100 years is like, give or take, you know what I'm saying? It's not exact. Right.

But it could be, you know, the 1950s. I've never seen the 1950s in color. That wouldn't be the 1950s, guys. If I may, Joe, me, if I may, like, if we could presume that, like, think if Mobius could have possibly been extracted from the 90s based on his love of jet skis. If we look back to the time and clothing from when that margarita scene was happening,

maybe late 80s, early 90s as well. If we were to presume that everybody was plucked from the early 80s, early 90s, the perception of time in the TVA works differently. They said that before. It could feel like they've been there for hundreds of years when really they've been there for, who knows?

Exactly. Right. Makes a lot of sense. Steve, would you care to, would you care to kind of comment? comment on how you feel like slavery has impacted the Western world here. Do you think he had no influence? Okay, cool.

Bye. Hey, to bring it back, though, I have a theory. I've solved Loki. I've figured it out. I've solved this. Let's go. Let's hear it. My big brain theory, right, is that the TVA is Kang's way of making sure that he rules

in every single timeline. Not just one, not just two, but in every single timeline. single timeline, right? Because we get the information from a Sylvie that these people are just variants plucked from different places, right? Different points in the timeline. And then, you know, shout out to Mao. She talks about this every week about how choice versus your destiny, you know, like, is the timeline like that? And you start to think, like, maybe like we're just, you know, set upon a path. And then with Ravona Renslayer, being, you know, the timekeepers, da-da-da,

how she's the only one who talks to the timekeepers, how they have a set path and whatnot. I think what this is all coming up to is that the TVA is, they're the actual bad guys, and their whole job is to keep the timeline pure so Kank can't come in and rule every single one. Yeah, so I think that there's no doubt about the fact that the TVA are the bad guys.

Like I said, the minute that you know somebody is working against their will, they're the bad guys. It doesn't matter. You can't... Having free will and agency and freedom to do whatever you want is the whole reason why superheroes fight.

Superheroes fight so that people can... It's really aligned with what we say what we're told the American ideal is so people can have life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anybody. So the moment that we realize in this episode that these people are variants

that are working for the TV, and they're doing it seemingly with no choice not to do it, we know that the TVA are the bad guys. The question then just becomes, to Jomi's point, is how are they the bad guys? And the second one, which Jomi just talked about, which is the why they are the bad guys. What is the TVA doing?

And then, like, it starts to jump out out of my head right now is how are we going to figure out, oh, how more to the point is Mobyus going to figure out that the TVA are the bad guys? because I don't think he knows. No. I don't think that that character is aware that he's working for the wrong side.

Like, they've already given us some things to kind of glom all to him, some pieces of fat. He wants to have a jet ski. He's been plucked out of the 90s. He seems solemn and he seems duty-bound to something sad, right? To something that he doesn't quite understand.

So the question is going to become, like, when is Mobius going to join forces with Loki and Sylvie to turn against the TVA, and I feel like that that's coming. And I don't know what Roche is going to play in that. But the whole time I was thinking about this, I'm thinking about, hey, they're building an episode outside of Mobius so that he can come back into something

and try to figure something out with new information. New information that Loki's going to give him that comes from obviously from Sylvie. Wait, so can I push back on the Kang stuff really quick? Okay, push back. I think Kang makes the most sense, but what we know from the Disney Plus shows, do you think that they would let Kang premiere in this

when he's supposed to be an Ant Man? And like, we've been like, oh, was Dr. Strange going to be in Wanda Vision? Is blah, blah, blah, going to be in this? And at each juncture, it's been like, just kidding. And Jonathan Majris told Variety, when asked if he was showing up in Loki,

he's going to be Kang and Ant Man. He said, no idea what you're talking about. that's not me saying King will not be in it. I'm just saying so far in the other shows we've had, every time we thought, oh, Dr. Strange or like, I don't know, like, Mr.

Fantastic has to show up and then he's like, no, we were weird lying. No, I think I talked to Arjuna about this this morning. Shout out to Arjuna. I think we'll just get a mention. We'll just like, you'll hear his name. But I don't think we're going to see Jonathan Majors. I think the shows are just a vehicle for the movies again.

And so we'll just, you know, we'll get a mention, you know, somebody will like whisper Kang and then we'll be like, you know, Leo pointing meme. We know that. You know what I'm saying? I can see that. I fuck with that. I think it's really interesting because the sacred timeline,

we know that there's multiple timelines. I think it's interesting, like the sacred timeline is the one timeline in every timeline where Kang is ruler. That's what it is. That's why I'm ultimately sticking there. But at some point, though, they do have to. Because Marvel's good about this, to his point, Marvel's good about big bads.

And I'm assuming that Kane would have to be a big, big bad here. I don't know how big of a bad, but you have to be a big bad. They're good about, like, with guys like Thanos, I don't know if he's going to be on the Thanos level, but introducing us to him before we actually kind of see them, or more to the point, letting us see their handiwork before we actually get to know them.

So that actually makes a lot of sense. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business, Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer.

You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. it. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items.

Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. I do want to talk about something that we brushed, that we briefly talked about, but that then makes a lot of sense in this episode, which is Loki's being confirmed. It's bisexual in this episode. It's very matter-of-factly done, but it is a huge, huge moment in the history of the MCU. There was something that happened earlier this week.

There was an NFL player named Carl Nassup that came out as gay. And what struck me about that was that this was a player that was already in the league and that had already had success. So this wasn't somebody that had retired or this wasn't someone that had, that we were just getting to know. This is a guy who had proven himself to be a good NFL player, has a 30 million, million dollar contract. And that just changes things because that changes the world.

That lets people know that, I don't know if you didn't think this, that there were other gay players in the NFL right now. And a lot of guys right there who are trying to find reasons, not reasons or ways to live their truth. It's almost kind of the same thing with Loki in a way. Because Loki is a character, not a new character that they're introducing that you really don't know that well. Not a character that afterwards we're speculating now that they're not in the MCU anymore.

You know what I mean? It's a character that we've known and loved and been around for 10 plus years. Yeah, I think almost 13 at this point. 13, right? Because he, you know, came in the first store. 10 plus years, who is now, has confirmed that he is bisexual, that he is queer. I think that's actually a dramatic sea-changing moment in the MCU. It's not that Loki is bisexual now.

He's always been bisexual. So this character has always existed. I think I thought it was pretty awesome. I thought it was pretty cool to see. To show how starved, I think, MCU fans were. Anthony Mackey put his whole goddamn foot in his mouth this week. Yeah, what a fucking, come on. When basically people have been shipping Bucky and Falcon and Anthony Mackey said some dumb ass shit,

but it proves how I think underserved the queer community was in the MCU because all they could do before this is ship characters because there were no gay characters or if they were, like, they were not marquee players. And Loki being bisexual is a big moment. I do agree. The one, I guess, bittersweet moment, I guess, is that we had to wait 13 years for it.

And because it's so matter of fact, it appears and then it's gone. And are we ever going to see Loki in a relationship? Because the thing about this episode that we didn't talk about is it's all about love. And it's about Loki and Sylvie talking about what is love to them, to the universe, all of these things. And now that we know Loki is bisexual,

I think the next step that the MCU and Disney has to do, and they have to do this in everything, and Star Wars and everything, is that it's no longer, in my opinion, enough to show that there's queer characters or to say that there's queer characters, it has to be something where we see it on screen. I think seeing that that relationship is really, where the bread and butter is.

I want to see Loki in a relationship just in the same way that we saw Tony and Pepper Potts in a relationship. That's what to me makes it adds even another layer. Is that fair or is that asking too much of that? I don't think that that's asking too much at all. I really don't. I think that the MCU has asked its audience,

as we've gotten into here, the MCU has asked its audience to wrestle with, consider, parts apart, dive into all types of hyper, convoluted, and complicated things. They always have. They've always asked us to get a little smarter. They've always asked us to view their world that they've created a little bit different. I think that it's time that the MCU tackled something that's as simple as love.

And it's something that most of us can relate to in terms of. of loving someone and having been loved by someone and wanting the best for somebody and wanting to be around someone. And oftentimes society, we overcomplicate that by assuming that it's so much different for some of us than it is for others of us. And if you can explain to me how five magical gemstones can come together and control an entire universe, if you can explain to me the quantum realm and going back in time and timelines and sacred timelines, surely two men or two women loving each other is not too much to put on the plate. Totally agree.

I am all for that, but I thought it still was when he said it, it still did hit me like, damn, okay, we out here. I like that type of inclusion. I like that type of inclusion. I love the R word too, which is representation. I think what they did that was actually smart that I did like is that I think there is and Falcon and the Winter Soldier

did this a little bit too much where it's like when you're making shows or movies let's say about like blackness a lot of times because it's such a weighty topic everything around it ends up becoming about blackness when like humans are way more multifaceted than that and in the same way with like anybody who's like queer sexual orientation, trans, whatever you want to

whatever you want to call it. Humans are not their gender. Humans are not just their sexuality. Humans are so multifaceted. So to make it just another part of Loki's character is more true to life. And that's what I liked. It's like it wasn't this big moment of like,

guys, we finally did it. Everybody clap and cheer. Almost like, and do not kill me for this. When at the end of end game, like all of the women showed up and like we were supposed, everybody's like cheering. and it almost felt like at that point in the movie

like the Disney and MC you wanted to pat on the back be like, see, we have a lot of women in this movie and I'm like, all right, sure, cool, like, yeah, and? One of the worst scenes in Marvel history. Like, I know you felt this is a similar way where it's just like it felt like they wanted to be congratulated for doing the bare minimum. Well, I mean, for me, all those women kick ass and it was,

it's cool. By the way, I just want to say something. That's not to say that there weren't, I'm sure, ladies out there that watched that scene and felt really seen and appreciate it's not for me it's not for two dudes to kind of take away from that it's not but I am saying that for me I was just like god damn man like they really

I was kind of ham handed a little bit but you let them would have put all the niggas on screen together at one time and been like we gotta go get this shit done like you know what I'm saying like it's like come on man so I do think I do think Loki handled it way better.

Way better. Because it also does make you think of his character in a different way. And think of like, oh, like, okay, now that it's confirmed, I want to go back to some of the other movies and stuff like that and just like let my mind wander. But this is what I,

I'm demanding of Kevin Feigy, I'm demanding of the MCU, is that like now that you've done this for Loki and I'm assuming in other shows we're going to get so much more representation, is that do not shy away from showing it on screen. It's one thing to say that a character is queer, but it's like, yo, it's another thing to be like, yo, people are in love. People have partners. It's not a big thing, but like,

let's see it on screen. It's fine. That's what I want for the future of Loki if Tom continues to do this, because it's cool that he's queer, but we've never seen him in a relationship. And maybe that's what we're going to see for the rest of Loki is like, what does Loki in a relationship or loving somebody look like? True. Very true. So, We are at the midway point in this season. We're about to get out of here pretty soon. I just want to ask you this last question. They always do this.

They always get to a point to where I'm like, is there any way for us to wrap this up? Is there any way for us to get through this? Is there any way for us to understand? Are you right now, do you have more questions than answers for the series of Loki right now? Is there anything right now definitively that you feel like you know? I don't.

And it's very funny that, Wanda Vision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, to me, all have this same problem where we get to the halfway point and we're like, all right, y'all built up the mystery, but you only got like three or so episodes more to figure it out and to stick the landing and so far they have not done it.

And I'm intrigued. Like Loki has me intrigued. I care about the characters. I care about the world. But I'm still like, I do not. Like the clock is running down and y'all are down by 20. I don't know if you can bring this home. Right.

I think they can bring it home. I think there's going to be a lot that happens in the next couple of weeks in the next few weeks. But they always do this. They always leave me to where I'm like, God damn. Really, it's only three episodes left. How are they going to get through all of this? But that just means they have to make three episodes of the most consequential

television that they've made. Or it could mean the other thing, that just not as much is going to happen as we think is going to happen, period. and if that were the case, we've been there too. You know what I mean? That just not as much is going to happen as we think is going to happen, that these things are all simpler than we think they are, that we're not going to see Mephisto canoodling with Sue Storm

and that Kane won't make any type of, and everything that we've said and everything that we've posited, everything that is just the words on the screen, the lines that are being given are what they are. And if that's the case, there's myriad ways that the whole thing can end. The MCU, the MCU TV shows have got me one too many times. So, like, anytime we bring up Kang, that's in my heart what I'm wishing for. But, like, I've been through this before.

Like, I've, like, you all have told me we were getting Mephisto and Reed Richards, and we were in Madreport and the mutants are coming and they're sentinels and all this shit. And I'm just like, these TV shows have, like, broken my little nerd heart so many times. I'm like, maybe, maybe this is just a vibe show. maybe the next three episodes are just them viving together and talking about time traveling and then they like wrap it up in the last episode. I'm like, all right, cool. That was cool. We spent six weeks with this.

I'm happy. That's honestly, I'm more so thinking that it's going to be more like that where it's like none of the things we're predicting are going to happen. And it's just going to be like by the end, we're like, all right, cool. We knew that the TVA was evil. Loki and Lady Loki figure out how to take it down. and Mobius does some cool stuff in between. And that might be all we get. We'll see.

I'm looking forward to the return of Mobius in the next episode. He was sorely missing this episode. Good, not great episode of television. You got anything else for him? Charles, before we get out of here? Ooh, wait. Did we tell everybody that we have a special,

we have a special pod coming for them? No, this is what I've got to do right here. Yeah, follow us on Ringaverse on Facebook, IG and Twitter, following and share the show. Make sure you check in with Mallory Rubin on Friday. She's going to have a deeper dive. I don't know if they can get much deeper. than what we just did,

but God damn it, because we are all over the place, but if it can, Mal will do it, and I know that she will. We have a special episode, okay, Monday coming.

We're going to talk about one of the most important movies of all time, one of the biggest, most exciting, spine-tingling, action-packed, completely grounded,

serious movies of all time. That's Fast 9. Fast 9, we're going to give you a bonus episode of the Midnight Boys. Minkleaker going to see it on Saturday. Okay. Charles, when are you seeing the movie? I already saw it.

I already saw it. I'm not spoiling it. Or maybe I will because you came to New York and ducked me. You ducked your midnight. The Midnight Girl. Wow. Wow. I'm going to spoil it. You saw Fast 9.

You enjoyed it. Did I enjoy? It was a life-changing experience, man. Okay. Well, don't wait. Wait. You got to wait. You got to wait.

You got to wait. Wait. You're seeing it on Sunday? I'm seeing on Saturday. Oh, all right. Friday night. I'm going to get a text ready and spoil it right before you go into the. It's all good.

It's all good. All right. Well, we were joined today or always, should I say, by Jomi Adiron and Steve Alman are producers today. And when I say we couldn't make this show without them, we'd be fucked. It'd be bad. They'd be bad. They'd save us a lot. Right, right.

We'd be fucked. This is a reaction show. So shout out to those guys. those are our producers that we love them. What are you going to say, Josh? All right, before we go, you can cut this in wherever, Steve. What do you have against a magic fan? You've never seen the Harry Potter films or read the books.

Yeah. Why? I don't like that demonic shit. So you'll watch Loki, which is about the god of mischief, a magical being. Not really. But you will not read or watch Harry Potter films. It's different. How is it different? So the fact that Loki is a god in, in,

Norse mythology, right? Means that the powers that Loki has actually come from his ability to like rain over stuff because he's a god. He's a god like powers. We're talking about like other gods from other places like Zeus and, you know, even some of the gods in Egypt and all of that. Those are different people's interpretation of gods and godliness. These are people that some people worshiped at a time.

That's their religion, basically. Sometimes with the wizards and shit like that, all these magical shit, you're getting it, you're deriving it from some demonic shit. Wait, what is your religion, your denomination? I'm a Jesus guy. You're a Christian, okay? Yeah. So you are all right watching a show about a Norse God, but draw,

the line at a boy wizard. I just don't like them. If we're being honest, it really has nothing to do with any of that shit. I just said, I'm just always good for a good argument. I just don't fuck with that little nigger. I don't fuck with Harry Potter. And by the way, and by the way, if we're being honest, I'm right. Because all of you Harry Potter motherfuckers have supported Harry Potter made that woman a billionaire.

And she is basically Donald Trump. It's bad. It's bad out here for JK. And she, you know what? She's a bad wizard. See, the people I support, they good. George Lucas, adopt everybody, married to a black lady. Good.

Fuck you, J.K. Rowland. All right. Charles, you've got an outro for us. The Midnight Boys are back. We're in the gym getting hotter. Van doesn't like magic And he definitely doesn't fuck with Harry Potter Every week

You fucking These guys are impressive guy We out I have one quick question for Steve I have one quick question for Steve Yes What would you do if you could go back in time Where would you go

And what would you do? To any time? Yes I think we know I'd want to go back to the first thing that's come into mind is like watch the Titanic sink

that seems like an amazing thing to see Steve the correct answer I was trying to save you is that you would go back and you would free the slaves but wow you didn't want to do that Steve didn't want to do that well not only did Steve not want to go back and free the slaves Steve wants to go back

and watch people die you sick bastard That's tough. Like, so that's your new nickname. That's your nickname. We got the nicknames to figure it out. We got Jomey the Explaner and six Steve. Jesus, you sick son of a bitch.

I really did fuck that one up. I really did. He didn't say kill Hitler. He didn't say free the slaves. He said, I want to watch people die on the Titanic. Crazy.