The Ringer-Verse - 'Loki' Ep. 5 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

Charles is joined by Jomi Adeniran and Steve Ahlman to discuss their immediate thoughts, reactions, and theories about the penultimate episode of this season of 'Loki.' They talk about how this episode stacks up against the other penultimate MCU TV episodes and what they loved about it (06:08). They also discuss the evolution of the bond between Loki and Sylvie and how this may end come the final episode (26:13). Host: Charles Holmes Guests: Jomi Adeniran and Steve Ahlman Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringers Charles Holmes and co-host Grace Spellman present the most notorious new podcast in the industry, the Ringer Music Show. Every Tuesday, they'll bring you the latest news, the hottest takes, and the deepest reporting about the wild world of music and the chaotic industry that creates it. Check out the Ringer Music Show exclusively on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

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Hey, Midnight Writers, it is Charles Holmes one half of the Midnight Boys. And sadly, I have some bad news to share. Over the weekend, Van lost his father, Van Lathen Sr. For longtime listeners of the Midnight Boys, you know how much Van's father meant to him. He shared so many stories about everything that he taught him throughout all of the shows that we've watched. And all of us really, really love Van Here. Our hearts go out to him.

And just me personally, Van from the beginning has believed in me, has championed me, has taught me lessons. And I know so many of those were taught to him by Van Lathen Sr. So I want to send my love out to Van. Everybody here on the team, we're really hoping that he gets through this. And just for all of the listeners out there, you know how much Van cares about y'all. So please just send him positive energy, prayers, anything that you can while he goes through this moment. and the Midnight Boys here is a family. So without further ado, we're going to keep pushing.

We're going to try to give you the best show possible. So please rock with us. We have some really, really exciting things planned. Thanks. Welcome into the Ringerverse. The Ringers and Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. My name is Charles Holmes. And today we have a special Midnight Boy stepping in.

Finally, show me. you doing? I'm feeling good in this neighborhood. I'm ready to get this thing rolling. Let's go, Charles. Ooh, also Steve, our producer, Steve, how are you feeling? Are you ready to help us out a little bit on this? Doing good, Charles, feeling very excited to talk about this excellent episode of television with you. All right. So, guys, normally you don't do this. This is the first time we're getting it from you live. So right now, guys, my name is Charles Holmes. We're here with Steve and Jomey, and we are the Midnight Boys. Woo!

All right, so guys, before we get into this excellent episode of Loki, we got some housekeeping, all right? This week is jam-packed with Marvel content and coverage for you. Mao will be giving her deep-dive analysis tomorrow on the, Excellent House of Mal. And the Midnight Boys will be back with you on Friday to give you our first reactions to Black Widow. And we got a special guest, y'all. We're rocking.

You know, things are going to get a little wild and crazy here. They're going to be a little bit different. But we want you to rock with us, okay? Is that fair to say, Steve and Jomey? It's going to be a crazy week. Content stops for no one. That is true. Steve, it is time.

Can you please roll the spoiler warning for everyone out there. We're getting ready. to talk about the episode. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right. So now that I'm in the hot seat, I will be doing the 60 second recap.

But you know what I'm going to ask for? What are you going to ask for? Van got to choose his music. So I want to choose my music now. Oh, God. Jomi, Jomi, were you a fan of the very, very good manga and anime, Dragon Ball Z growing up? Nah, man.

All right. So you're, let me, I'm going to stop you right here, Charles. I'm going to stop you right here, Charles. We, we have a bit of a problem with copywritten music. So I hope that you're going to give me some leeway here. If I do your best, can you, I just want some like hard rock, hard rock, hard rock anime from the 90s music to back me up, okay? Okay.

Well, I do the 60 second intro. So you want a DBZ hype recast. Yes. Is that cool? All right. All right. Your timer's ready. I tell me when to go.

All right. Power levels ready. three, two, one, go. Last time on Dragon Ball Loki. We begin with Ravona and Sylvie in time court, forming a temporary cooperation to find out who the man behind the curtain is. The Loki's remained trapped in the void, guarded by the Monster Eliath. The Loki's hide out in a dilapidated bowling alley turned-throne room.

Ravona, Sylvie, and Miss Minutes attempt to find what lies past the void, and who would be behind the timekeepers. After a brief stint of deceit from Rivona, Sylvie prunes herself and casts into the void. The Loki's rest and shares stories through time while our Loki plans to escape. As he leaves, they are met by Bayer Loki and a gang looking to take control of the territory. Sylvie upon arriving in the void is chased by Eliath and rescued by Mobius in a pizza car. A fight breaks out between the gang of Loki and Classic Loki and Kid Loki and Our Loki escape. Sylvie Mobius and our Loki reunite and plan to take down Eliath.

Ravona interrogates B-15 basically telling her she ain't shit. Loki and Sylvie strengthened their connection and plan to enchant a life. The gang says their goodbyes as Mobius returns to the TV. Classic Loki projects the entire city of Asgard to distract it. Loki and Sylvie enchant the monster and march toward the end of the void. Woo! Was it very good. What were you trying to impersonate right there?

No, that's the guy. That's the guy. Okay. I know that meme. Okay. That's the guy's voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next time on Jericho Ball Z.

Next time on Dragon Ballsy. So yeah, Steve, fix that up in post. But, Jomey, what, what can we say about Loki episode five? It is done what I believe. It is fair to say all the Disney Plus MCU shows do, which is like episode five, they blow the budget. They do the big, they do the big thing. It was enormous what happened in this episode.

The girth was wide, okay? I was ready for it. Honestly, just from the start of the episode to the end, it was just so many things happening. And I enjoyed every single second of it, to be honest with you. It was awesome. Yeah, I think what this episode did, like, this is a comic book lover's just dream.

The amount of Easter eggs that were dropped, the amount of characters. There were moments where I truly just had to go on the internet because I was like, I didn't catch all the Easter eggs. no way. Oh yeah, I was pausing, rewind in, I was going back and forth. I was reading signs. It was

crazy. Do you think that this is, I think one of the things that Van and I in the past, maybe I've criticized Loki for, is that there was a couple episodes where not a lot happened. There was not a lot of plot. It was very vibe heavy. Would you say this is the most plot

heavy episode where we learn a lot? Things happen. We're going traveling to different worlds. There's just so much being thrown at us. 100% every like five minutes somebody was explaining something new to Loki or to Sylvie or to Mobius, right? Like we're just getting new information from Ravona from Miss Minutes. It was just an episode full of exposition, which is great, which means the next episode, the finale, we're just going to get right into it. You know, we're just going to get right into the flow.

So it was really enjoyable episode. And I'm glad that we got to learn some stuff so we can get this thing cracking. What do you think are the biggest questions? that this episode answered. Because right off the top, my biggest one is that we were wondering at the end of episode four, is Mobius dead? Where did Loki go? Where do people go when they're pruned?

And we learn that. We learn that in this episode. It's the void. This is a place that's at the end of time, basically. And we're learning just like Loki is learning what it happens when you're pruned. And essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong, timekeeper, when you are pruned, you don't disappear. You go to almost like this pocket dimension, this pocket universe where you have Eliath, who is this big purple cloud, essentially just like eating everything alive. It's like a

garbage disposal for all of creation. Well, my biggest question is, where did alligator Loki go? King Loki turn around. Alligator Lucky was like, actually, I'm going to see y'all at the crib. I'm not helping nobody. No, but I think my biggest question leads into, you know, where are Loki and Sylvie going? You know, we saw Sylvie have that enchantment, you know, at the beginning episode with Eliath. And so they open the portal, they enchant Eliath, and now they have access to its memories.

So where are they going? What will they see the next episode? I'm excited to see where that goes. For those that don't know, guys, I had to look up who Eliath was from the comics. But for those that don't know, he was created by Mark Grunwald and Mike Gustaviv. He first appeared in 1993's Avengers, the Terminatorics, objective number one.

And he says in that issue, can I explain what he says in that issue about who he is? Oh, please do. He says, I am Eliath. I am the supreme being of the time span prior to Kings. My empire is far greater than his, stretching back to the dawn of life on Earth. So in the comic books, it's a little bit different. In Loki, the show, he's essentially like a watchdog. He's like a cerebis for who's ever paid.

past the void. In that castle we see at the end of the episode. In the comic books, he is essentially like this big purple being who owns more temporal space than even Kang does.

So they used something from the comic books and they made him, they turned him a little bit more into a guard dog. Now, the thing that I want to bring up with a lie, the one major flaw

I think that this episode had is that it had the CGI problem where there's always the CGI blob in the, In the MCU? Was it a problem, though? Was it a problem?

I mean, there was a couple moments where I'm just like, ooh, this looks like a CW show, my guys. Well, see, here's a thing. Here's a thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing, Charles. He quite literally is a purple cloud in the comics. So I don't know what you want them to do with that.

I'm not saying it's kind of book accurate. But guys, if we're leveling with each other, there were a couple moments where you're like, ooh, man, this is, you needed just like maybe 10 million more. You maybe needed a little bit more like the movie budget to rock this? See now, okay, this is why Jomey and I are here. It's because we need two people for you to pump the brakes. We're not as strong as some of these other hosts that you got.

But we got to get you to pump the breaks. But I think to your point about the big CGI fight, I think where this show has been striving in, you know, we've been seeing the MCU TV formula kind of laid bare for us for these past three seasons now. And of the quote unquote big CGI finale fight, I think this was probably the best that it's ever done because it's indicative to all of the Loki's powers. It's used as a sort of, again, plot device

to get us to this final thing. When we've seen the CGI battle before, I'm thinking specifically of Wanda Vision, it's just people fighting in the sky throwing fireballs at each other. This one was way better than Wanda vision. I will say that. It was way.

The CGI was way better. Baby, they learned a couple tricks. Not even so much CGI, but like the conflict. It's indicative of like, okay, well, we need classic Loki's help. We need this big distraction. We need this thing to help us get to this objective. To defend Eliath, if we needed to get the purple cloud to get classic Loki,

summoning an illusion of Asgard to show our Loki and Sylvie like, damn, y'all are powerful. Then I grant it because I was like, this is sick. Because I do think one of the whole. With Loki and they even kind of poke fun of it in this episode is like, Classic Loki is like, why are y'all using like swords and shit? We're so much powerful than this. Guys?

And I was just like, talk your shit, classic Loki. Jomey, what did you think of like introducing that? Loki's are more powerful than we've seen in these past movies. They're not just tricksters. They are actual sorcerers. I think it's great for Loki's growth as a character. Because there have been rumors of a season two. If we're going to see him again, it'll be something that he can look back and be like,

hey, I don't have to, you know, just be like the trickster, just doing my, what did he call in episode two where he was like, illusions versus... Illusion projection involves depicting a detailed image from outside oneself, which is perceptible in the external world, whereas duplication casting entails recreating an exact facsimile of one's own body in its present circumstance. Right, he's got, you know, way bigger powers than that. He can cast illusions like Asgard, like classic Loki, or he can enchant people like Sylvie. He's not just a one-trick pony. And so him learning all that through other lokies, I think,

will be important for his future if we do see more of this Loki going forward. So while we're on the topic of Loki, you know, Loki wakes up. He sees all these variants. I want to go through the variants real quick. All right. What did we think of kid, Loki? We learned very, very early on. That my man Merked Thor in his universe.

That was big. I almost gas. I'm like, because our Loki is just like, dog, why are you letting a kid? you around and then my dude's like he killed thor i was like oh shit joey what did you feel what did what did you think of kid loki i mean if you've listened to any of the ring of verse pods between this one and mouths everybody knows that kid loki is enormous for my young avengers agenda right we're getting that made so it was great to see him have a part and be and just

take charge really i loved him you know like killed i was i was want to know how a kid Loki killed kid Thor. If I could, if I could have directed the episode, I would have just, or written it. I'm like, all right, we just need like a five minute flashback to see how kid Loki just like, just totally took it to Thor. But here's the other thing, though, if we're going down the list of Thor's, Black Loki, who's running out here like he was fucking Pock, running out on the court doing nothing. A lot of fucking nothing. They just gave a nothing to three. Zero percent from three.

bro, I was sick, man. I was sick. When he came around, he was like, yeah, I betrayed. I was like, bro, man, after every, how are you going to put us down like that? Put on for the black people, dog? Dog, they made black loki go out sad.

I was like, he disappointed me. I'm not going to lie. He disappointed me. Now, what we say, I would say, classic loki, we already talked about his powers.

I think he was honestly the MVP of this. Classic Loki has the, The original Loki costume from the comic books, Journey Into Mystery. And he says something that I think is almost the theme of the episode is that we cannot change. We're broken. Every version of us forever.

And in this episode, we see classic Loki going on a journey of realizing that lokies are capable of change. It's in micro what our Loki has been learning throughout this season. And we see this older version of him who, this story he shares is really, really sad, man. It almost got a tear out of me where basically he abandoned the universe.

He just thought the universe was pain. He lives on this planet. He forsakes Thor and all of these people. And the nexus event for him is when he wants to hop off the porch. The minute he hopped off the porch, the TVA rode around or the drive out. I was like, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Got him out of here. What did you think of classic Loki story?

I thought it was, you know, really incredible, you know, starting at, like, Thanos. Like, he had the same experience as Loki did, except instead of getting his neck snapped, he hid as in, as just a random object. And then got just, just sat off into space, you know, it was like that Doctor Manhattan meme just sitting on the moon. I'm tired of these people. Right. Oh, it really is like the Dr. Manhattan. He was just, he was really just vibed, you know, to himself. which is not a thing that aloki does.

Like, Aloki is always there causing mischief, causing problems. And for him to take that step, be like, you know what? I've just, I've seen enough,

like, everybody around me is either died or is in pain. Like, I'm just going to take myself, take my ball and go home, you know, and chill.

And then for that, for that not to be the nexus event, right? But then for him to be like, you know what, it's been how many millennia, you know, I'm coming out.

Let me, let me do my thing. And TV is like, actually no it explains why classic loki is the way he is we don't got to be doing all this y'all yeah i love classic loki he was just it was such a i thought it was going to be too hokey but but when i saw just kind of everything he did in the episode and kind of how we just taught the younger loki's about life it was just amazing we got two more loki's to go dog alligator loki was about that action when president loki comes in and he just bites that muffins that muffins

fucking hand off. I was like, oh shit. I was like, my man, like, alligator loki. Like, that's also my main critique, we needed more alligator loki in this. He was hilarious, bro. Yeah, that's, that is my G, alligator loki. Because, you know, he could have just been chilling, like, yeah, I'm an alligator, but I'm a do me. I don't need jo. He was, he was real part of the team. He was like, for real part of the team. He was like, I'll look at all. Attitude and shit. He's like, nah, y'all, y'all be easy. I'm cool out here. He was rocking with him. I love that. I love that. And they didn't shoot him as a pet. They cheated him as like, hey, he's one of us.

I love that. It was really special. And last but not least, this is also, like I give him also, I give black loki of this award and I give this next loki of award, the award of like he was a run around on the court doing a lot of nothing. He was just doing cardio, right? President Loki, bro, like, dog. Y'all, like, we were waiting. We were like, oh, shit, is he going to be the leader?

Blah, blah, blah. My man comes in, gets his shit rocked, and we just move on to the next thing. I was like, damn, you did President Loki like that? I was talking to Steve. We're talking to Steve before we started recording. And like personally, I thought like President Loki would be like a flashback to, you know, something that we haven't seen in like a Loki history. But for him to like show up and just get dogged immediately was just high comedy. It was so funny.

And it's the thing that we keep talking about on the Midnight Boys. As fans, we gotta stop. You're like, oh, man, like, what's this, like, what's this, do, blah, blah, I bet this is it and that. And the writers are like, nope, he didn't. Nope, sorry, guys, fuck y'all. Well, I think it's also important to mention

that, like, this is kind of the first real bait and switch in casting that the show is done for us because a lot of people would have thought that, like, oh, this is going to be our Loki, presuming the role of President Loki to, I don't know, like, banned up these marauders, or make some sort of elaborate

plan to escape the void, but no, this is just a completely different Loki saying, and I'll never forget this line because it was really fun. It says, which one of us are you? Yeah. Which is a very fun thing to say. And our Loki's just like, God damn it, this is a nightmare. And I think that that's a wonderful bit of fun that this episode's having, because we keep forgetting that this show is caught up in the, what the, I'm borrowing a Dr. Hoofrey's here, timey whyminess of it all, where it has fun with itself and plays this big role. in showing how these characters play off each other. And I think it comes up when we get the brawl of the loki's,

the massive amounts of deception that will inherently befall every single Loki when put into a single room together. I can't believe none of them saw that coming. A couple of them did. A couple of them did. All right, this is my issues with all the loki's. We're playing with their power scaling. But I feel like the writers are playing fast and loose with their intelligence.

Because I'm like, none of y'all loki's. thought that these other lokies are lying to you like they're you and they're all just like black loki this is why they did black loki so bad he just is like the Scooby-Doo huh? Like I'm just like

he was shocked he was shocked. He could not believe that he got he got tricked and I'm like bro you're a Loki that's all you do I actually feel really bad for the actor because I was like on Twitter and like after the last episode

he was just so excited he was so excited to be in the MCU And I was just like, yeah, man, get that shit off. Get your tweet off. Get the excitement out because episode five did him dirty. Episode five did him dirty. I need to call Humar Johnson, like, ASAP. As long as the check cash, you feel me?

Oh, all right. So, guys, let's go to what I would say is a little bit more. I think this actually pushed the plot forward more if it wasn't maybe as exciting. But we have a lot of Ravona and Sylvie. And basically, what I want to do. to talk to you guys about Ravona is like, at this juncture, I personally think that Ravona is the big bad of this. It was kind of clear to me that like maybe she doesn't know everything, but she knows more than she's leading on. She's lying to Sylvie at multiple points.

And while I don't think, it's so late in the game, I don't actually think we're going to get like, Kang a debut in person. We might get his name. We might get something else. I do think Ravona is like the main villain. Like she is the power broker. She is Sharon the power broker. We were all looking for King all along. And Rvona from the moment was just the big bad. Am I wiling?

I can't believe you found a way to sneak power broker in here, bro. After everything we talked about, I can't believe you did that to be. This seems like a power broker thing where we're all all like power broker, power broker. And I'm just like it's the person who I think is like the second person on the call sheet. She's the villain. We're just so dumb. I mean, I think she, you know, is like the Loki and Avengers to Kang's Thanos, right?

You send a herald, you know, to, you know, do all the dirty work. But I don't think she even knows that she's, you know, the Loki. Or I guess the better app, the more app thing would be Silver Server to Galactus, you know. But Ravone is definitely like the big bad in terms of this season of television. Lied to, she's lied to Sylvie. You know, yeah, I'll help you. You know, when her life was in danger. She lies about the ship.

I was just like, there's no ship. Trying to bullshit a bullshitter, by the way. Really, like, poorly. I don't know about you guys, but I'm watching an episode. I'm like, that sounds like, Cap, she's a liar. There's no way. And then as soon as the TVA guards rode back in, she was like, yeah, I'm talking to her.

I was like, man, you're a frontrunner, man. You was only doing that because you thought your life was on the line. But also, speaking of frontrunners, Miss Minutes showing up for Ravona. I don't trust Miss Minutes, all right? The big lie. Wait, also, I know the listeners hate when I go off on a tangent, but I have to ask this real quick.

Do not lie, guys. Don't lie, Steve. Don't lie, Jonny. Could Miss Minutes get it? Would you swipe right on Tinder? God, dude. See, here's a thing, right? And then, like, I'm going to expose myself a little bit.

I'm going to expose myself a little bit. Joe, you can't, why are you even humoring this? Wait, no, hold on. Hold on. I'm, me, look, Charles is my guy. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to indulge him on this one. I'm going to indulge him on this one. See, Miss Minutes is voiced by Tara Strong, right?

And if any of y'all are outside, you know, Tara Strong, legendary voice actress, also voices Raven from Teen Titans, right? Oh, my God. This is, no, this is cheating. This is cheating. I don't know if y'all outside like that. Stop. But Raven, Teen Titans, I'm not going to say nothing.

But 12-year-old Jomey was like, hey, what are you trying to get into, Raven? Like, what are you like? You know, like, what do you like to do outside? I'm letting so much about Jomey, right? So all I'm saying is, you know what I'm saying? What I do it, I'd have to think about it. So I'm going to say, I'm going to think about it. Here's what I'll say, all right?

She's missed minutes for a reason, all right? You don't tie that down. She's single. You're shooting a half court shot at best, Jomey. All right, I'm not even going to bother. Well, here's the thing I think we're all forgetting now. Out of your league. Is that she's off, she's not single, right?

She's married to Mr. Minnickapal. all Arjuna, right? Wait, Arjuna? Arjuna, I don't think we've ever heard Arjuna's Arjuna's voice on the part. Arjuna, un-neused really quick. Are you thirsting for Miss Minutes out here? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Jomey's referencing my Miss Minutes theory. Oh, what's the Miss Minutes theory? That she's the big bad. She's pulling the strings. She's the first voice at everybody in the TVA here. She's been probably the oldest thing there, just coordinating everything. She holds all the knowledge.

She holds the sacred files. She knows what happens. happens at the end of time. She's like the how. She, you know, she's the evil robot that's gone.

Like it Wally with the, with the motherfucking thing that comes down, doesn't want him to go back to Earth. Oh, shit. All right, all right.

I like this. I like this. Arjuna, you get a point on the board. Guys, that's Arjuna. He's also a midnight boy. You just never hear him because he never wants to show up.

So watch us record. He hates us over here. Thanks, Arjuna. I like that. But guys, all up the show. Poo-Pew. Thanks, Arjuna.

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Does Loki have game? Because I really don't think he does. To quote a legendary sports character, Stephen A. Smith, he has no game whatsoever. He was so bad. It was so embarrassing. And we talked about in episode three, you know, how him and Sylvie went back and forward. He was like, yeah, I know you enjoy time with, you know, lots of princesses, lots of princess.

he was like, I assume you as well. And so, you know, we think, oh, man, Loki's been outside, you know, he's out there, you know, spitting game at every, you know, every which way. He's getting it. All right, shout out to him. But then you see that scene and you realize, like, he has no flirt game at all. No. No.

Zero. To give him credit, we reference this from the previous episode and from now that this is new for him. He hasn't felt this way about somebody. But still. No. No. He's got none. Like, Loki is like millennia years old.

He's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years old. You telling me that your game is that week when he like, when he does a little thing, he like basically like gets the blanket and then conjures it out of nowhere and then like wraps it around her. I'm like, dog, this is high school moves, bro. This is like, can I put my arm around you? I'm like, this is his problem though. He knows how to flirt.

He doesn't know how to feel. All right. Oh, all right. I give Steve a punch for that. I give Steve a point. for that. But the other thing I wanted to talk about with Loki and Sylvie is how do we feel

about that bond? It's still, there's love there. I think there's attraction there. That is very, very clear by the end of this episode that our Loki will do anything for Sylvie, even risk his life. Do we feel like this relationship has been built

up enough, has it been rushed? Jomi, what are you feeling? It's weird because I'm very, if you guys know, follow me on the Twitter when and during Umbrella Academy Luther and Allison they're like brother they're not like actually brother and sister

they're adopted siblings yes they're not biologically related but it's still a little yes right and then in the flash Iris and Barry right raised together they got they call the same dude dad right like I'm not really there for that you know that's still a little weird to me

but in this case I'm buying it on the sense of like first of all like Of course, a Loki would fall in love with a Loki. Yes. Thematically, it works. Because I think what we're learning, this show is also about, is about Loki learning to not only love himself, but trust himself.

Because Sylvia at one point turns to him, it's like, how do I know I can trust you? And if we follow that, like, they are the same, which they say, it is Loki not only learning how to trust a partner, but learning how to trust himself, that he won't double cross himself, that he won't. hurt her in the same way that he's hurt Thor, Odin, or his mom, all of these characters. So thematically it works. It's still in my mind, little games are thrown in a little bit like, I still, this is I agree.

But like when you see it, like throughout the episodes, it honestly does feel like genuine, right? It does feel genuine. Yes, it does. I'm really impressed of how like they did this in, you know, five episodes up until now. Because I, what I was watching the scene, I'm like, they're like little, they're like, little middle schoolers, you know, trying to figure out like, what? Like, well, no, did you hear what Mubu you said? No, I didn't hear that.

I don't think that's true. But it's like, they're just deflecting because they have feelings for each other that they've never felt before. And you're like, wow, like I do buy that these two people are falling in love. Now it is, like you said, it is a little weird that they are, you know, the same person. But it's, I definitely buy it. And well, and that's not to discount. Like you talk about Loki's growth from this relationship,

about learning to love himself. Think about what Sylvie's getting out of this. She said herself, I don't have anyone. I have never had anyone. And Loki is giving her that type of companionship, that trust, that thing that she can use to have a life, go on past this, because that's the goal at the end of all of this. At the end of the void, she wants her salvation. She wants her life and dreams to come true because she wants the life that was taken from her. And Loki's giving her the sort of trust

and knowledge to know that, like, people can help you along the way as he's learning it himself. That makes me a little bit sad. After that conversation that Loki and Sylvia had immediately in my brain is like, oh, they kill him Loki off.

Next episode, they're killing him off. This is like a character moment of when they start talking about, like, what are we going to do after, like, we're done with the TVA and they're talking about, like, we don't know how to live life. Like maybe we can figure it out together.

I'm like, oh, they killing Tom Hiddleston off, bro. It's possible. We see what happened when, when, Thanos, the thought he had snapped everything off. He goes off to the cottage and they just like, whack, whack. I honestly think that they are sending Tom Hiddleston off. That moment was just like, oh, they're not going to give Sylvia happy ending. There's no way they're going to do this. Is that theory wild?

No, I don't think they'll kill either of them. I do think they'll split them apart. I know, I think Sylvie is here to stay. I don't think that story-wise, it wouldn't make sense for them to have Sylvie be happy. Because they've spent so much time introducing Sylvie that I don't think she's going anywhere. And she's been great, too. Yeah, she's been great. She's been.

Sophia D. Martino's killing it. Just really. Just she needs whatever awards are out there. I just think that because she's doing such a good job and because they've given her such such dialogue to chew on in so many scenes that you can't make her happy at this. The MCU is damn your TV right now, especially the movies.

She has to be another shit. Of course. And I would only offer slight pushback in thinking that I think that if anybody deserves the happy ending come the end of all this, it is Sylvie. Because if this is to be a passing

of the torch from one Loki to another, if Hiddleston really is on his way out, I think the most cathartis in the world could come from the Loki that we've known for a decade plus, taking L after L after L and feeling like the most about a version of himself that has yet to really come into fruition.

And if he sends that off into life and the rest of the MCU as we know it, with a hero's journey to start with, I think that that's wonderful. Do we think that we're going to see Mobius again? Because one thing that, like, it almost seemed like this was like, weirdly our goodbye to Owen Wilson

because they're like, all right, what are you going to do? And he's like, I'm going to go burn the TVA to the ground. And that's a full circle moment to him because in the beginning of the series, even before Sylvie was there, a lot of this story was rooted in order, in chaos, in believing in something, and having faith in something.

Even if you don't, you've never seen it. And what does it mean to challenge your faith and to believe in yourself? And now we've gotten a Mobius, who in previous episodes is basically like, I don't need to know. He's very much like, I'm an agent. I'm here to do what I'm here to do.

And we got the full circle moment where he's like, I'm burning the TVA to the ground. I don't care. What did you guys think about that turn for Mobius as a character? And do you think that that's the final time we're going to see him in this series? I think we'll see him again.

I think the episode six will be split into like two, you know, distinctive blocks where, you know, one part is going to be Loki and Sylvie, handling their business with the cloud and, you know, the enchantment thing. And second half is going to be Mobius, Ravona, Hunter B-15, Miss Minutes, handling stuff with the TVA, you know, between them.

Hopefully we see Casey again. But we'll definitely see Mobius again, you know, hopefully burning the TVA to the ground. Like that, I think that's a lot. And getting his jet ski. That's what I would watch. Shows not over until we ride that jet ski. Until he rides in the sunset with that jet ski, man.

We don't hit the credits until we see him on that jet ski. And then this. This is the moment I've been waiting for. I think this is, we're going to have Easter egg corner. We don't really do much Easter eggs here on the Midnight Boys. Honestly, we don't have time. We watch the show and then we have to jump on and talk about it. But I want to give you y'all a little something extra.

So will you guys indulge me? I'm going to give you my top eight Easter eggs. Are we ready? I'm here. Number one has to be Frog, aka Frog Thor. It has to be. There's a shot that we see where basically they're going down. we're seeing everything, all of the dirt, and he's in this little jar, and he's trying

his best to get out, okay? And then there's a little, there's a little label on it that says 365. And for comic book fans, you know that this was like the, this isn't when Frog Thor debuted, but that's when, like, Throg, like, had the power of Thor, okay? Jomey, when you saw Throg, what were you thinking? I was like, where's Beta Ray Bill? Like, let's get this thing crack in, man. You say that for the big leagues, Joe.

you save that for the big leagues. That's coming in Lovin'Thunders. Here's my thing, dog. I need that for Thor 4. If they don't give us Beta Ray Bill and Thor Love and Thunder, throw the whole MCU away. We've been waiting. Of course they are. I hope. That's my prayer. If they do that, they will. Everything will be worth it. But Throg, when I saw him, the second Easter egg, and I might be wrong, is he jumping around trying to get that the Mionier that's in the ground? Like he's trying to get back to it? That's what I thought, right? Yeah, that's what I thought too. That was so funny.

It was just those two, that was amazing. Now, this one is a little bit more obscure. But we see a helicopter that says, Thanos on it, all right? This is a nod to a very, very silly comics, Spidey Super Stories 39. It was released in 1979, where, yes, Thanos flies an actual helicopter.

It has its name on it. This is just, if you have a place like The Void, that is just supposed to be where everything goes to get eaten and all this shit. This is the perfect example of an Easter egg that's so funny. It was just, it was amazing. Jomey, were you laughing when you saw that? I was dying. I like to think that the Thanos Carpard even break the sicker timeline.

Somebody just saw it was like, this is really dumb. Let's get this thing out of here. Yeah. Pruned into the void. There was also, this one wasn't as big of a wow moment, but it was one that I was just like, oh, like they are really, they care about this world. is that when Mobius is driving is the car, the pizza car, the license plate is GRNW1D,

which reads as Groomwald. For those that don't know, he is a legendary comic creator, and he is like the basis of the comic book, Mobius, because when he was a writer at Marvel, everybody would make fun of him, an editor-writer, that he was like an encyclopedia. And, like, visually, he is what they base Mobius on

in the comic books and what they, I'm a super, based Owen Wilson on. So that was super dope. Now this one, have you heard of the Living Tribunal, show me? Yes. There was a head

that a lot of people are claiming is a living tribunal because it had the three faces. And for those that don't know, he was created by Stan Lee, Mary Severin, and Herb Trem. And he essentially is like

the judge of the multiverse, which is another clue. We were talking about in previous episodes that it feels like we're going to a secret wars moment where there's going to be multiverses where we're probably going to see multiple spider men we're seeing all these lokies and like the living tribunal is a perfect example of like oh they are like going home with the multiverse what did you think when you saw that joan

they're not holding back you know because the thing with easter eggs are like when you see it you know it develops like a theory usually right yeah and the the living tribunal is like you mentioned like he's the card of the multiverse right so if his head is in the void. Where is the living tribunal? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Where's Wallace?

Where is the living tribunal string? Then another one. It's like really important. So like, it's wild. Oh, it was crazy. It was crazy when, because I like, I was like, scrolling through Twitter, like just being like, oh, did I miss anything?

And when someone's like, oh, that's the living tribunal's head. I was like, oh, shit. But another, another, oh shit is that we got another, like, very, very cute Kangtis. Where it's like, the previous episode was like, oh, he's a little. in the FOID, that's Avengers Tower. But if you look closely, it does not read Avengers Tower. It reads QENG, Quang Enterprises, and this is based on a story in the comic books where Tony Stark

sells Avengers Tower to this enterprise, the CEO of which is Mr. Griffin, and in the story, it is revealed that Mr. Griffin is another version of King. Once again, the breadcrumbs are there. And this ties into one of the easiest Easter eggs is we see a huge yellow jacket helmet. And we've already been told in news that Kang is coming and Ant Man in the Wasp. Right. So what do you think about like them continuously just teasing Kang over and over again, Joe? I honestly can't wait to see Jonathan Majors, you know, is a great actor. And so we're finally going to see, you know, the Lord of Time on screen.

That's honestly super exciting. The yellow jacket helmet thing, I think, proposed an interesting theory that I'm sure we've talked about on the Ring of Verse and people have talking about online since the show began. So in the first hand, man, like, Scott Lang goes into Yellow Jacket's armor and, like, punches through it and gets stuck in the quantum realm and yellow jacket like just like disappears, right? Just turns in a pulp and just vanishes, right? Going back and like watching Amman and the Wasp and the quantum realm, you're like, okay, yeah. So it would make sense that he, you know, got popped into the quantum realm and now it's just like a fissure of, you know, whatever world that he's stuck in. But seeing his helmet in the void and all the, you know, conversations about maybe him being in the quantum realm, it's like, is the void the quantum realm? Well, you know.

It's something to think about if we think the TVA is in the quantum realm. Right. Maybe the TVA just pruned him and dumped him there. but guys, this is a variant. Like, this might not be the yellow jacket from, from our universe. It might just be a yellow jacket from a timeline slash. This also allows us to have just a bunch of random bullshit that is not going to be addressed in the comics. Let me go through all, because there's, there's random bullshit that I'm just like, this means nothing, but they just want to have fun because there's a helic carrier.

Someone pointed out that Red Skull's ship from Captain America is in there. And then Ronan accuser's ship is there. So there's also like, as much as the. fans are like, oh, what is this mean for the future of the episode of the episode? I'm just like, it might just mean that they want to put some like dope-ass shit. It just like not explaining it. They also got the New York Sanctum Sanctorum in there. All right.

Was I whiling? I was like, is that the sink? I thought I was stripping too. Yeah. I were all here doing like all this stair rising, all this, you know, like red yarn drawing stuff. Meanwhile, they're at Marvel studios like, hey, y'all still got those CJ assets for the hair carrier? Yeah, that's easy, man. Just port those over to me,

man. What you put to any episode? Yeah, no problem. That's easy word. You know. All right, so, Jome, as my fellow black brother on this podcast, I want to pitch you on something really quick, because you brought up Kang and Jonathan Majors. Steve, turn your mic off, turn your sound off. Yeah, we know Steve's how he likes to play around here. All right.

Tell me if I'm crazy, what if, because we have Jonathan Majors there, what if we made Jonathan Majors Kang like a Hotep? Like, what if he, like, came back from, like, Jet? And it was like to Airman. He was like, we was Kings. Like, what you're, I think that would be so amazing. He got the coup of you. See, my brother, you're not, you're not seeing the vision, you know, because time, right?

They say time is as a flat circle. You know what I'm saying? You're not seeing it, my brother. Why do you think clocks are around? My brother, you got to put it together. You understand what I'm saying? Like, honestly, it would get annoying, but I'm here for the jokes. So bring it on.

I'm here. I'm locked in. What if Kang is just all the realities pruning? He's just like, we got to get the white nonsense off the single timeline. My kings. His whole thing is pruning white kings. Like, that's his whole thing. No white gangs.

We was kings. We was black kings. We was gangs. That's his whole thing. All right. I'm sorry, guys. Audience, I'm sorry. If you've listened to this, I know you guys hate it.

I love a tangent. Okay. I love a branch timeline. But lastly, I think what I want to end this podcast all, is asking what are the final questions that we have going into the last episode of Loki. And here's my problem. Guys, don't hate me about this. I would say it's fair to say that like the last episode of Wanda Vision, the last episode of Falcon and the Winter Soldier,

could not hold up the promise of the fifth episode. You know, because they had to answer so many questions. They had to move characters around so they could be in other movies. Like, we're waiting for Dr. Strange to appear, doesn't appear. Like we're waiting for like shit in Falcon and the Winter Soldier to pop off in like the last episode and just kind of doesn't because he needs to be in a movie

How does Loki, because we've had a great season of TV, stick the landing when it's been so hard for the previous two shows? I think it's going to be easier for this show to do so because they set it up quite well in episode five. I think in the first in Wanavision while I don't, I mean I think it was definitely

the weakest episode of the series I think what we got was ultimately like what we're always going to get. You know, we weren't, you know, we set ourselves up, you know, expectations that felt short. We set ourselves up for failure. That's us. Falcon and the Soldier, at least for me,

all the other stuff that was in Isaiah Bradley stuff was just, it just felt flat for me personally. And so, like, that's just me. But for this one, we get, you know, Mobius saying, hey, I'm going to go burn the TVA to the ground, right? We see Loki and Sylvie in that enchantment, right? Like, the dominoes are shut up. Now what happens, who knows?

I can't wait to find out. But I think ultimately, we are in a position where we're going to get the TVA fight between, you know, Mobius, Hunter B-15 versus Ravona and Miss Minutes. And then the second block with Loki and Sylvie. That's, that's it. That's the series right there. It's very simple. Like sticking the landing to me is very, very simple. I think the only way that they'll trip up, and this is hard for all of them.

myards go out to him is that like the MCU has to continue. And I think sometimes the disappointing thing is just like, damn, like you can't tell a complete story because like Sylvie has to show up in something else. You know what I mean? Like other characters have to show up in something else. So you're just like, damn. And then we're just like, oh, stick around because Sylvie's going to be in this thing. So I do think that like this, the difficulty level isn't actually that high because the show has

had a similar level of quality throughout. It's just, it's been great. So I just think, like, they just got to stick the landing. And I think we'll probably have our first, probably our most successful Disney Plus show. And I think maybe I don't know when Loki was made, but I would assume that there's a reason this was probably third. Because this one seems like the most fully formed,

the most fully baked. Am I wild in saying that? No. No, no, no, no. This is like the one where they're just like, we exactly know where we want our story to be. We're not trying to force you to fall in love with, like, new versions of characters, we're just potentially trying to just send off Tom Hiddleston

in the best way we know how. And as long as they like emotionally can hit that core of just like, this is why you've loved Tom Hidleston for almost 15 years now. We just wanted to honor his legacy as Loki and maybe just like introduce some new characters into the mix to keep the mantle alive. And that's actually, you've talked about Young Avengers, Jomey. Would you like to see child Loki, Kid Loki, or Sylvie, the Young Avengers? I need Kid Loki there because we've got, we got Bailey and Tommy from

Wanda Vision, Isaiah Bradley's grandson from Falcon Winner Soldier. Later this year, we're getting Miss Marvel in the Marvel show, and then we're getting Hawkeye, Kate Bishop, and the Hawkeye show. And then there's Ironheart

and Stature are coming to the MCU in the next few years. That is like, it's right there. You know what I'm saying? It's right there. I'm rocking with Kid Loki because he's part like,

you know, the original, the original group. He's part of the Kering Gillen comic book where he got, not the original Young Avengers together, but he got what I would say

like is a more the standard team. Yeah. It's like a very just like they had queer teammates, black, Hispanic, everything. Now.

America Chavez and Dr. Strange. I love America Chavez. She's coming, I believe. Now, I'm going to push back on you, Joe.

Okay. I actually would want Sylvie to lead the Young Avengers. Acting-wise, I just think that she's better. I just think, like, I know everybody's been like, but it's Kid Loki in the comics. I'm like, if we weren't anything in Loki, they don't give a fuck about sticking strictly to the comics. They're going to do, like, Sylvie is an amalgamation of different characters.

I think, like, I love Kid Loki. Like, but the comic book person is like, Charles, shut up. We want our, we want our comics in MCU to match up. But I just think it makes more sense. they've given more time to Sylvie to develop as a character. Now, they might be saving Sylvie for the actual Avengers, but, like, I've just seen more of Sylvie. I like her as a character.

I think there's more to chew on. Kid Loki is great for a cameo. They just haven't given him enough for me to just be like, all right, he deserves. First of all, Charles, there's still one more episode left. You don't know, he might be the hero. You know what I'm saying? So let's slow your role. No, but I think ultimately it would be fun to see the, like,

for me, like, when I think a young avenger, I think it's probably like a Disney Plus series, eight episodes like we're doing right now. But just to see like a whole bunch of kids running around trying to save the world, you know, no adult supervision. But here's the thing Sylvie said in this episode that she never had friends. And like for the Young Avengers to be like her first friends, that to me. She's not going to go through that journey just to babysit, Charles. Come on.

She's not going to babysit. What are you talking about? How old is she not going to be busy? Are we going to get Sylvia van? They're called a little minivan. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's some fucking magic school bus ass show with going through the central nervous system.

They are called the Young Avengers, all right? Assholes, they're not called the Kid Avengers. They're called the fucking Young Avengers. I would say that Sylvie is still on the young side. So it works, all right? I don't know. Hey, Steve, the episode where she got to take them to Six Flags, you know, and like, hey, y'all got your tickets.

Good, did everybody pee? Hey, Kid Loki. Did you use the bathroom? All right, let's go. Give it cracking. Come on. You all, man. I hate y'all.

But do we have any departing words, any last things before we sign off and talk about Black Widow later? This episode, like, we've talked about it. Tom Hiddleston talked about this episode very highly said episode five. Episode four and five are my favorite episodes. Right?

So going at episode six and with what we just talked about how, like, all the other shows have not stuck the landing quite, like we hoped, or just at all. It's going to be important. I'm not, look, I'm not going to say it's a Disney Plus MCU legacy event, right? Like, in basketball, we talk about a legacy game.

We're like, if they don't deliver today, their legacy's on the line. Is this a crisp ball in the finals thing where it's like, dog, it's your last chance, bro. It's your last chance. Not to being Ringer NBA to Ringer first. You know, like, oh, it's a legacy. Can't.

The question really is, can they produce a final episode that everybody will enjoy? I think it's more so, can they, can they produce a season of TV that feels contained and feels like it was worth it? Not like the super highs where we're all like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. And the lows of being like, damn, I got to go back to the movies to see where this ended. I think Loki is actually a perfect time for them to be like, all right, we can deliver y'all six episodes. All of them were similar qualities.

if not better, and like we're sending it off in style. I think loki has the best chance of doing it. Yeah, I agree. I think like that's the question. You know, if we're not talking, you know, plot details, because we frankly don't know like what's going to happen next episode. Like we have no idea in terms of like what specifically can't happen. But in terms of just overall thoughts, I think this show has the best chance to close it.

But we'll just have to see. But I'm excited next week. And I'm going to be in front of my TV 1150. Let's go. All right, guys, that was our episode. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of The Midnight Boys. I want to send a special shout out for our social producer, Jomi, for stepping in, our producer, thanks to our producer producer, Steve Allman for stepping in and Arjuna Ram Kapal.

And yo, guys, make sure you follow the ringerverse on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, You know, if you're mad at us, if we missed an Easter egg, if we didn't explain enough, you know, reply to Jomi. He's good. He might reply back. He's good with that. And make sure you tune in to Mow's house of Mow tomorrow. She is going to break down the episode far better than we ever could. And that's coming out Thursday, guys, because on Friday, we have a special episode.

We're talking about Black Widow. We're going to be up at midnight. We're going to be doing our best guys. that finally, I want to send my love to Van. We miss you here. The show is not the same without you. We can't wait to have you back. And I want to dedicate this episode to Van Lathen, Senior Man.

I know you're with the ancestors and we're all going to miss you. And with that, we're out. Charles, you always finish the episode with some bars. Let's hear them. All right. Jomi and Steve were here. And they went out with a. bang. I don't know

what's going to happen on Loki episode six, but my black people remember we was Kings. There was a scene where our Loki Sylvie and then Mobius comes. And Loki's looking at those two

snacks, like y'all delicious. It was like a Tycho Watiti Arita. Stop. A Rita Oral. What's the other one? Tessa Thompson situation. Do we think, do we, do we want Loki and Sylvie together or do we want like a Thruple situation? Do we want Loki Sylvie and Movious?

Because I think that's how our Loki would be his happiest. You know what I'm saying? Have a Mochie, Mobius and Sylvie sandwich. What are we thinking, guys? Well, here's the thing. Loki has two hands, right? One for Moogius and one. Where am I right now?

You know what I'm saying? So, hey, what's happening? First of all, Steve, it is 2021. I'm not right. people love how they love. Yeah. Damn, Steve. Stop it.

Somebody mute his mic. Arjuna. Yeah. Mute Steve. Look at you. What's wrong with that? Steve's being a hater. We just got a Pride month.

Come on, Steve. Come on. Show some love. No, they're buddies. No. They can't be buddies and have something more? No, I'm not saying that. All right.

You're putting me into this corner. I shouldn't have jumped on this pot. Wow. Damn it. First time I'm anti-critical race theory. Now I'm homophobic. You just, it's really disappointing to hear that from you, Steve. I thought, I thought better of you, man.

I'm just, I don't know.