The Ringer-Verse - ‘Loki’ Season 2, Episode 5, ‘Invincible’ Season 2 Premiere, and Marvel in Crisis | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

The Midnight Boys return to give you an extra special pod breaking down their instant reactions to the latest episode of 'Loki' (06:35). Then they give all of their thoughts on the bombshell Variety article about the crisis at the MCU (41:28). And later, they give their thoughts on the long-awaited Season 2 premiere of 'Invincible' (63:55). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer. And for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment. A guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings. And with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Welcome into the ringerverse. This is of course the ringer's Nexus podcast fee for all things fandom. We are. Jumby the explainer at dinner on you've got questions. He's got answers. We are. Steve, the architect, Almond, builder,

tinker of things. Mr. Afooty food bubble guts. Oh, right. Jesus. We are. Old man, Van. He of the receding, resurgent, hairline. Cote baby Chuck. 24-carat closer,

aka the brunch hottie. Together, we are known as A lot of night, boys. Ab-a-hooo-hoo! All right. You guys got to follow some socials. It's very important. Insta, Twitter,

Facebook, TikTok. Jummy, is there anything happening on socials? Any updates? Hey, now we're posting all the stuff from the live show. You like that. Yeah, shout out to everybody who showed up. Shout out to everybody who came through.

Shout out to everybody who came to the live show. Yeah. It was a bunch of fun. So, you know, posting some behind the scenes stuff. We're going to get some clips up from the video team. There's some clips up or some stuff that happened. So, yeah, man, stay tuned. Make sure to follow and tap in.

Real quick, I just have to bring this up about the live show. So I'm not learned about Jomi. What's that? You got a crabs in the barrel mentality, Jomey. Oh, my God. I was talking to you a little bro. Jesus, crap. Oh.

I was talking to you a little bro. You're a hater. He's like, Jomi, like, your little bro needs like a job. Like, with your stature now at the ringer, you can't even get him like a little internship. Get him just something on the side, lying his pockets. Joey's like JZ now. He's not going to give anybody help. Yep.

Damn, Steve. Steve came through with some real social commentary right there. We all knew Jay Z's answer. He said take the 500K. Jummi, you want to respond? I mean, there's not much to respond to. I don't respond to libel. So, she's going to keep it pushing.

Jesus Christ. Oh, we should say something right now, guys. Before we get to, all the Midnight Boys are together in person taping this podcast right now. Rare occasion. Rare Friday. Oh, it's going to become an occasion

that we're doing more often now. Oh. Oh, daddy. All right, on Saturday, mid-edition, we'll be getting together to discuss the finale of Gen B. Guess what? Still haven't seen one episode. It's good stuff, man.

It's good stuff. I'm going to jump into it. Guess what? We liked it. Kalika's sitting down right here. Me and Kalika are probably going to end up watching Gen V. We're going to watch Gen V probably between when you guys come over football and anybody who doesn't come over for football this weekend is not a real fit.

Wait, is Gen V, is that Black Woman's power that she slits her wrist and can control her blood? Okay, so technically yes. Oh, come on, bro. See, I've seen that. I did watch the first part of the first episode, and I want to let you know, that was enough to make a nigga turn that shit off. I get it. I get it.

Trust me. In that first episode, you'll turn that episode off like three more times. Yeah, that was enough where a mom comes in the bathroom or whatever. That was enough for me to make it. I'm not about to look at this right now, man. Oh, man. It's not great.

Sunday, Splash page returns as Jess breaks down the Easter eggs. You need to know for Loki episode five. Guys, tell you right now, splash page, number one YouTube-related fandom content. Hell yeah. Number one, Jess is doing her thing. A Monday, House of R is going to be back. Give you a deep dive on Loki, episode 5. I'd say 3.30.

A lot of others. At least. Say 3.30? Yeah, at least 2.30. You can find that over on the House of Our podcast feed on today's show. We have what we're calling a midnight mega episode. We got Loki episode. Then, of course, we have to turn the page to a little nerd news minute with the scathing variety article that came out.

That has recontextualized expectations for the MCU. Motherfuckers better get their apologies, Freddie. Charles's victory summer is like insane right now It's all about Chuck And then Guys episode one of Invincible

It's all on one pod One midnight mega episode Guys Midnight men Midnight men doing their thing Logies up first Here's thing We're gonna spoil everything in the

MCU, everything you've ever heard about, everything you've ever read about, stuff that you've read that might be happening in the future. Who knows? Maybe Robert Downey Jr. comes back. We're just saying shit now. Who knows what can happen? Nobody knows. Wesley Snipes could come black at this point. You guys will listen.

Slipes comes back, bro. I take it all back. Yeah, the Blake conversation is crazy. He might as well. Let them happen. Why not fuck it, right? We're just doing shit. Okay, Invincible, the MCU, everything up to date.

I will say this. We've been talking about Loki the whole time. If you have not went back and supplemented the first season of Invincible, you guys are going to be spoiling that when we talk about Invincible. I have to go back and watch some stuff. It makes the season opener better. So all that stuff is going to be brought up on this podcast. Steve, give me my handy spoiler warning.

We're getting ready to talk about it. Looky, you're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. To begin our reactions, we have to put you in the in the know. The only way to do that is giving you the Midnight Manifest. The only person who can do that is Chuck Wagon. All right, so since we're live, this is going off the dome. Can you give me, yo, does anybody have a lighter?

Could I do like the Lowell-Wane lighter flick? If you don't get into this Midnight Manor first, my bad. I just did it for you. All right. This is your Midnight Manifest for Loki Episode 5, Science Fiction, directed by Justin Benson and Aaron Morehead, written by Eric Martin. We begin with Loki who wakes up back in the TVA. But all of his friends are now gone. As Loki begins to time slip, he's going back to each branch timeline where his allies are originally from.

Mobius is a jesky salesman, Obia failed sci-fi novelist and physics teacher, B-15 a doctor, and Casey and EscapE from Alcatraz. They've all forgotten their memories of the TVA, but Obie is the one who believes Loki the fastest. Obie tells Loki that he could potentially control his time slipping, but to fix their current predicament, he needs to collect the rest of the team and their collective temporal oras. Loki has the most trouble with Mobius, who now has kids and is a single father. And Sylvie, of course, thinks that everything is going according to plan, and she doesn't want to help Loki.

But when they're at the bar, she gets Loki to admit the thing that he really wanted all along is his friends, and his friends are those at the TVA. But when Sylvie sees her dimension turn to spaghetti, she decides to help. Unfortunately, all the people turn into temporal spaghetti at the same time. And Loki finally gets control of his time slipping. So it doesn't really matter because now he can travel back to the point right before the temporal loom exploded. And that has been your midnight manifest for Loki episode five. All right.

Let's get into it. Pin up, pinultimate episode, episode five of the show. Start off with Chuck. What'd you like? they bullshit in. Come on, you want to fucking with it. They,

come on, man. Jesus Christ. We all watched this episode together and when that shit shut off. First time, by the way. First time. First time we've ever all watched an episode together at the same time. That's crazy.

It's lovely. It's lovely time. Oh, I mean, I enjoyed the episode more because I was watching it with y'all. But at the end of that episode, Penultimate. Even if,

I don't want to compare it to season one, but do y'all remember how we felt after the penultimate episode? Oh, my God. Of season one, it was like... I was gas. An MCU TV show can do this. It made me feel the same way I feel when you get a really dope twist

in an actual Marvel movie. And this episode, it just kind of felt like they were circling the drain a little bit. And last episode, when I was talking, I was like, yo, this episode, the last one ended on such a cliffhanger. It has to be big. It has to feel important

and for me it just did it. Am I being my normal hating stuff? Not at all. So this episode was them spinning their wheels a little bit. They were treading water and they ended up exactly in the same place where they started. Did cool stuff happen in the episode? Yeah. Yeah.

Was it fun to see Mobius finally as a jet ski salesman? It's cool to see B-15 in a different life. Was it cool to see Casey in a different life? different spot. It was cool to see all the characters free of the TVA, living out lives on the timeline somewhere else. It definitely was cool. Did that build any sort of kinetic energy to this episode to where at the end, when Loki pops back up, basically in the same place that he started that you feel fulfilled? No. It seemed like not even that they were catching their breath. It seemed like they were pausing the story. Like, catching your breath is one thing. This one kind of seemed like it took a break. Not a boring episode of television,

but an unnecessary one, which you don't want to have in the six-episode run, you know what I mean? Is there a moment where you understood what this episode was trying to do? Yes. Yeah? And I, I'm going to be real.

I was like, this episode better not end, like, an episode of Naruto, where fucking Loki realizes, like, the power of friendship can save the fucking timeline. And damn near, that's what happened. When Loki is essentially like, okay, time is fiction. I've solved it all. I was like, is that really what we're going to do after you're doing all these timey shenanigans and shit?

And, like, it seems to be the fact that, like, the show is doing a terrible job at trying to make up excuses as to why the show works. where all you need to do is just make up a slightly better reason. Like it's so caught up in explaining why things should work the way that they are that it actually is losing the, like, it's losing the plot for the sake of explaining the plot. Loki got to believe in himself to stop time slipping. That's really what we're doing here. So I think he was maybe scared into the time slipping or, you know,

Disney's doing a good job of letting us know that, When something traumatic is happening to a character, all kinds of amazing powers will come out. Like, when something traumatic is about to happen to somebody, they can finally use the force after not being able to move a fucking blade of gas. And then put them across the Grand Canyon. No specific reference.

No specific reference. Before I get into, Joan, what you got, bro? You guys are all incorrect. Oh, give it to me. This episode did a really good job of, Not only, like, expanding, like, the lore. Or, I won't say that. I'll say the episode did a good job of giving us.

Fingers on the button. No, no. How could he stop the cap for his opinion? That's, I'm waiting. I was waiting for you to just say that I'm kidding. I know. I just saw a band drop out of Jomey's fucking pockets. Can I find him definitely slid you, a crisp 1,000.

Fuck out of here, Jomey. I'm concerned for all of you. Okay. I don't know what, like, I must have watched a different episode. So I thought this was a very, like, important and, like, meaningful 45 minutes of television for the show and the main character. Right. So for the main character, there's a moment in the bar with him and Sylvie. and we find out that all Loki wants are his friends back.

It's never had that before. Never across the entire time we've seen him, it's never had a group of people that he's willing to sacrifice everything for. And he found it. And he finally admitted to himself, admitted to us for the first time. Like, I want my friends back.

That's it. That's the only thing. Like, I got here. I found this group of people that I love and I care about and just like, do you want to see if the TVA, do you want to do this? Nah, he just wants his homies back. He just wants his pals back. Like, I don't know how you watch that episode and didn't come away of like, okay.

And then that translates to the end where time is unraveling. All the timelines are all coming apart. And he can't figure out how to control the time slipping. And when he sees all his friends spaghetti fought away, like almost in like a quasi-snap Thanos type thing. Same shit. And he's like, yo,

how do I save these people that I love and I care about? Again, like, you know, to the point, you know, you does the whole, like, I lost, you have that moment, bang, right?

To say that it's spitting its wheels is doing the show a disservice because now we get back to that point. I mean, you can argue, I guess we'll have to see

how the season six or how episode six ends to see how well it's done. But now he gets to go back to that moment while also having the power of being able to go anywhere in time and be able to manipulate and change things. A crazy power, like an O-P-type level.

And again, it happens as an episode and it's like, let's... I don't know. I don't... Let's stay on the bar scene. Let's stay on the bar scene. That's the most impotent scene in the history of the show. That's the single most useless scene when he is doing all of his horse friends.

First of all, let me tell you something. I get that Loki needs people. And the entire first season of the show was able to ground itself in Loki's specific connection to one character. Now, throughout the season, we've seen Loki interact with a bunch of people. But in the background of this, there was always some impending doom that was led by some multiversal, overarching, gigantic cataclysm. So much so that the development between the characters in this story has actually been sacrificed for an endless MacGuffin chase, number one, and also this problem solve, this never-ending

stream of problem solving. So that's what they've done. Every single episode, rebuild this to undo this. let's go here. We need this person to get this person back to save this. And it's all about saving all of these people and doing all of this stuff. It has not been at all

about the interplay between the characters. It hasn't. The only time we've ever really gotten any time to catch our breath with these characters is in this episode. And when she pushes it out of them, I just want to have my friends again. I'm sure he does.

But my nigga reality is about to fucking dissolve. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like,

it seemed like, knew what it wanted to be, but it, I'm wondering if there, if something happened that made them switch narratives. Because that is a total change from what we've been doing.

And look, it's fine, it's not whack, but I absolutely felt nothing for him in that scene. It seemed to know exactly what it should do for its character,

for its main character, character and like it just spells it out in the more obvious way of just like we are saying what this character wants because the plot demands it so and orboros literally confirms that by saying well it's not because of any scientific reason it's because of fiction and the more you think about that and I really try to not it sounds more and more stupid because it's literally just saying the plot demands that you should have this power by now or that you should have the ability to do something and think about yourself and then do it. Yes.

Is that, am I crazy to think that it's that simple? No. It presented it that simply. It presented it that way. And I was kind of just like appalled as the viewer where I'm just like, wait, we're doing this, where this is a show that you built your bones on having all of these time rules and all of these names, scientific names, that obviously mean nothing. and then at the end you're like,

actually all you had to do was believe. I could see the version of this episode that worked. I could see where like, we needed a lot more time with this, where like Loki is stranded and constantly lost in time and realizing for himself that he needs his friends and he wants his friends for this entire time. Like, if we felt that kind of connection

with the rest of his friends for the entirety of this season, more so we would have known that, but we've been constantly chasing Mcuffins, been having a plot, explain to us, mechanics that don't make sense, instead of actually being connected emotionally with what this character actually wants. Jumman, I want to ask you something.

What's up? At the end of the episode, you threw your hands up. Why? What do you mean? When they go back to the... Don't play dumb nigger. You threw your hands up. You were like, is that it?

No, it's like, we're back. Were you expecting more? Not really. I don't know. I think last week I talked about, like, five of us. going to be like getting the band back together. Like I think I pretty much like was like this is just going to happen this week. So like I'm, I wasn't like totally like surprised or taking a back.

Like I mean, it wasn't like the most like action-packed episode we've ever seen clearly. But I think to take a beat and, you know, kind of basically like, yeah, basically like reset everything and, you know, put Loki in the position to do to do what he needs to do in the finale. I thought it would do a good job. All right. So let me ask this. did we are this whole season and honestly the whole series has been building towards Mobius what is his connection to jet skis what is his connection to this life that he was taken from we finally got it in this episode and I'm like how could an emotional moment

ball this utterly flat I'll tell you why it felt flat because they used it not as a like vital part of who Mobius is, but as a way station to get to something else. Like, there's an emotional thing. He's got a life, he's got two kids. Yeah, that's important. You know what I mean?

Like, he's got two children. And there was a moment where there could have been some exploration of exactly what it meant for Mobius to be extracted from that life. But it's, As soon as we're looking at him and another version of him is talking to Loki, it cheapens any type of sacrifice that he has to make because his boys don't really lose anything.

Now it's vibes. I didn't even get an emotional beat of, what is his relationship with these children besides him kind of being the nagging parent? I actually was like, you probably should have done this in episode two of this season or episode three, waiting this long and then kind of yada yadding Mobyce's like return to his former life Even in episode two when Mobyus is like Oh man I can't handle the idea of something good in my life Having existing on the timeline

We need to know just like just how bad of a sacrifice that is To just abandon all of like your two boys for this stranger Like and the call to adventure that Moby's gets from somebody like Loki really does need to mean something. I mean, Loki's like, hey, man, if you want to save your kids, you know, come through. Let me ask you a question. Real quick. You're chilling at the house.

You're playing the VR. Something's going on. Motherfucking steps out of a portal. Big machine. It says, hey, come with me. We got to go say the world. Who's stepping through the portal with this motherfucker? Well, if Jomey's playing Spider-Man too, he's not going anywhere because he's really got to find a guy.

Important follow-up question. Give it to me. Male, female, white, black, how attractive. Wow. Okay. It's literally Tom Hiddleston. It's literally just Tom Hiddleston. I don't think I follow Tom Hittleston.

I'm not following Tom. See, see, that's interesting that you would say that. Well, given this exact scenario. The last time white people landed somewhere looking like aliens. See? And told us to follow somewhere, we never got back. You know what I mean? I doubt they're.

were that nice about it. She, you never know. This might sound strange. It's like, hey, man, it's Carnival. Hey, I'm Portuguese. This is Carnival. All right. Like, come get on this.

We spend the next thing you know, we didn't hit them drums again, baby. Jesus Christ. We didn't hit them drums again, man. I bet it's going away. You could hear the faint drums in the distance. It's like the whole thing's fucked up. Anyway, no, interesting question. Let's say

So Tom Hiddleston, you say no Let's say Any white man I'm saying no I'm not following a white man It's gonna be hard right Tony Hawk What if Tony Hawk come through that door? Oh Tony Hawk maybe

And I know it's Tony Hawk Yeah Oh yeah I'm going through the portal If he kick clips through that time door Zoe Kravitz Nah I'm sorry Is it going Zoe Kravish?

It's you know what The stop on Zoe Kravitz Just in terms of like Whether she's down with the cause Oh you fucked up because of the Will Smith shit, you're not fucking with her no more. Zendaya. Yeah.

Yeah. Probably so Zendaya's good. Okay. Barack Obama. I don't know. 2011, maybe now. Not so much. Well, that's the thing.

If it's to fix time, you don't know what he's fixing. I'm just going to say, you know, Mr. Drones, I don't know. I don't know if. Damn. Wow. No, he's right. What? Am I wrong?

Magic Johnson. What do you need me for? I mean, here's that. Imagine probably that compelling itself. You know what I mean? He probably sell you. Wait, whoa, whoa. Like, current age, Magic Johnson or out there getting it, Madaghan?

I'm not from the phone. I'm not fucking with that. I'm not going with that. He comes out in his 80s, Lakers jersey. Quincy Isaiah show up like, hey, man. Yeah, I'm not going to. It's 19802. I need you.

I'm like, ah, my boy, you got it. I'm, I'm chill. Michael Jackson, 2004. No. No. No. No. No.

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which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. I want to come back to Jomi real quick. What's up? And I'm just asking here. So we saw B-15, Dr. Casey, prisoner of Alcatraz, super racing. O.B. writer slash professor at Caltech, so he's obviously still brilliant. Most of these people's characters reflect some of the things that they were doing.

in their various timelines, you know. Casey very resourceful. He was breaking out of Alcatraz. B-15, a lot of heart, problem solver. She was a doctor. Obviously, OB, big imagination, plus this technical genius, writer-in or whatever.

Did you feel like you care about any of the of these characters that you met on their various timelines because I couldn't connect with them they seemed like variants of themselves they seemed like the diet versions of the other characters we didn't get very much with them

yeah that's fair I mean I think what what you're supposed like the show wanted you to feel I think maybe like I felt this way is like you take those characters that you already like kind of feel for in the first like four episodes and then yeah you're supposed to like like, I guess, project your feelings for the, like, B-15 to the B-15 on the, on the branch timeline.

And so, yeah, I was like, you know, oh, man, O.B., he can't sell a book. You know what I mean? Like, it's tough, oh, boy, right? And seeing, you know, seeing Mobius or Don, they were calling him, right? Like, can't sell a jet ski worth his life. You know what I mean? Like, he's out here. He's trying his best working, what, Sunday, 9, or Monday, 3,000?

Monday through Saturday 9 to 5 you know what I mean trying to take her of his two boys as a single parent right since the wife left um yeah it was just like it was cool I think what I'm

I think I'm seeing is because like you guys are like they're not doing like a great job of like you know integrating these characters especially like Loki right and I think we see it like especially with Mobius

every week Kim and Mobius have like a moment of like friendship you know and we talk talked about like last week when they were doing the little model thing they were like this looks like you look like me like that's the kind of stuff like you know like people do like like these clothes people do you know and then just spending time with all the other characters within the series no they're not i don't think we feel the same way like about loki mobius but you're still like hey man you want to see these people succeed you want to see them you know do what they need to do and

when they all get spigetified this week i did again like i'm not saying like Like, it was the same as, like, the staff, whatever, like, seeing Black Panther and Spider-Man. That was different. That was a whole other thing. But you still felt something. It still felt something. Like, you especially- Like, especially- Come on.

No, man. Like, I'm not saying I was there in tears. You want the Diet Coke Infinity War? Like, that's what it felt like, bro. Well, I don't even say Diet Coke. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like. It wouldn't even Diet Coke.

It was like... You're a Diet Coke, nigga? Not really, but like I like it. Diet Coke. I like Diet Coke. That's wrong about. I don't know yeah it's not like again again it's not infinity war

I'm not saying there's infinity war not even close you know it's infinity one minus thousand but because we care about Loki and we in that moment we know that like his friends mean the world to him watching him watch his friends die essentially like dang

they've done this twice that's tough in two episodes everybody we thought everybody was well yeah emotionally, if you do it again right after the other episode, I'm going to be like, what am I supposed to be? Exactly. It feels like it means so much less because to know that you can do that and then immediately take it away and then do that again and then immediately take it away.

All those moments feel a lot less earned when we're at the bar with Sylvie being like, okay, tell me what you want. And then he's like, I want this. No, tell me what you want. And like we just keep going in this circular thing until we get this. inert emotional breakthrough from Loki when we find out that now he can control this power. And I'm like, okay.

Also, how dumb is Sylvie? They hate Sylvie, bro. The Sylvain is, the sylvie was tough because she comes in, she's like, oh, no, this whole thing's going messed up. It's like, that's kind of your fault. This is rare because of you. But she has her memories. And what angered me is I'm like, all right, first season,

Sylvie's so formidable. She's badass. She's smart. She's running circles around the TVA. In this episode, if she remembers everything that happens, everybody gets to go back to the timeline, she has not had one thought about like, oh, wait, there's still no time loom.

So how am I, like, how is this branch timeline going to survive? She has to wait until she sees it and to be like, oh, okay, yeah, like Loki was right. We should probably do something about time not existing anymore. Well, she never wanted those problems in the first place, right? And I hate when. man. Oh, boy.

My name is Trump. She didn't want these problems in the first place. I was going to ride, bro. Y'all nigs about to make me say the Marvels is going to be a 12-0. You know, I'm lying up a storm. And it's a black woman director, and I ain't saying shit about that movie. Hey, everybody, make sure you go get your tickets to the movie of the season. No, I mean, like, I mean, the whole thing is really her fault.

By the same time, like, she never wanted this problem in the first. place. Like, she always wanted to go back to her own time. It was only when, again, the McDonald's Cup, you know, disappeared and then, you know, the whole, like, record shops started spaghetti-fine that she's like, hey, man. Well, that's happened to her all season. It seems like she's completely obtuse and stubborn about things until she realizes the stakes in her own terms, you know? Yeah, and, like, the fact that she couldn't possibly care until it immediately affects her, like, I know that she's not that inherently selfish. And she can't stay that way up until. She has been, no. She has been. She says it in the episode.

She's like, yes, I am selfish. But like, it's the fact that she can only give that to Loki in his 11th hour. And then only when she comes back to him and being like, okay, now it's all falling apart. So we've got to figure this out. Then he's like, oh, I figured it out. Great. Like, question. Okay. So episode five, not a disaster. Not my favorite episode. Not a disaster. I think that's fine.

I guess my question is where are we going? What now? Well, we're back again. We're in another situation. Honestly, guys, we're in another situation with the Marvel property

to where here we are again. We're looking at episode six. And we're like, we don't know what's going on right now. And we're like, we don't really know what's happening. And then at the same time, there doesn't seem to be a

clear end to the narrative here, like we're not pointing in any real way. It's kind of like, it's another situation to where I'm going to check the runtime and be like, well,

you know what I mean? That's standard. I'm trying to... This is a half hour. Standard. Well, I'm just saying it's like there's nothing... I don't feel like I'm almost at the end of a meal.

I don't feel like I'm almost satisfied. They fix the temperal loom. Okay, what... Now, now what? And I've enjoyed the show. I've enjoyed Loki, but I have some trepidation. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

If they fix the temporal loom, that's not a good enough ending? No. No, not really, bro. To what end? Not really. What does it mean? Why should I give a fuck about the temporal loom?

Bro. Why? It has to be more to fixing the temporal loom, if they fix the temporal loom and save the TVA and the TV, who gives a fuck. Damn. The only reason that we're supposed to care is because the show is told us that we need to care. The TVA is supposed to mean.

something, bro. The TVA is supposed to mean either order or something. We're supposed to get a better understanding of building in the universe and the whole nine. The whole nine. The same regime of like taking away free will. And we haven't exactly grappled with that in season two

only to know that Loki can rewrite his own story rather than I'll put it in this way. Frankly, I don't give a shit. Why should we care about the TVA? We care about the people in the TVA. Yeah. Like, I care about Mobius. I care about OB. I don't give a fucking about the TVA or the temporal loom.

I don't. Why should I? It's got to be more than just saving the temperament. I mean, we don't have, and we don't, there's, there was no victor timeliness, there's no hint of Kang. Yeah. There's no, it's just, you know. Wait, why don't, why didn't they go get? Oh, no. He's gonna have to get him to.

Well, no, he got, they'll probably get him. He got, he got, like, real cooked, I think. I mean, well, knowing that Loki can time slip anywhere, what's to stop him from going all the way to? And that's like, that's what I'm, like, excited for to see next week. Like, okay, cool. We're back where we, where we ended episode four, except this time we got a dude who can, like, go through time and, you know, you know, presumably, like, pick and choose where he wants to go and probably, like, fix his own problem. So I'm just to see, like, how they operate.

I'm going to tell you exactly how it's going to go. Obie's going to explain exactly what Loki needs to do. And then he's like, oh, you can fix, you can go exactly back to this time, go back to this time, this time and this time. do this, this, and this, and then he does all of that. I don't know, man. And then one thing goes wrong, and then we have a season three. I think there's no season. I legitimately think our brains are rot.

Like, I don't, I legitimately think as a whole, no. Because, like, a show will, like set up a problem. You're like, hey, this is the issue that we need to fix. And then I'll be like, cool. I mean, I've had this. I feel like I'm, my brain is melting. because, like, I remember we used to watch TV. A show would go on this season and be like,

hey, there's a problem this season. Let's be got it. And then we spent all season fixing the problem. And we used to go home and be like, man, that was cool. We had a great time. Now, like, and we had this conversation on Jim V. It's never been about, it's never been. The problem has to be interesting.

I think for me, I've had this conversation twice today. They've never been about whether or not they fix the problem. It's always been about the ride and them doing it. You know what I mean? It's never been, every show is about it. Right, which I'm saying, right. Like, if you got a problem with the Rye, that's fine. But that's not what we're talking about.

That is what we're talking about. That is what we're talking about. What are you talking about? I'm talking about episode six hens. What are we talking about? Talking about what? I'm talking about episode six hens. They fixed the loom, right?

And they present us with another thing to deal with for season, for season three. I'm saying right now fixing the loom for me, this is the way it feels. Obviously, you got to see it. Fixing the loom. to me seems like an anticlimatic ending to six episodes of television. It just doesn't seem like enough.

For me, I'll just be honest. I don't know. That's the plot that story presented. I'm taking it as they give it to me. Not as I want it. Oh, oh, not right in the show. That's what the fuck I'm talking about. I'm like, I'm not, that's what I'm trying to

like, maybe that's what my wills are spinning. Because again, we had this conversation, you're going to see it in the next episode or the next, uh, Mint Edition episode. where we discussed, like, the ending of season one, like, did we like it and did we not? And I'm bumping against the fact that, like, when the plot is over, right? If they go from point A to point B, I'm cool with that in terms of, all right, they solve the problem I need to solve. All right, how do we move forward from that?

You know what I mean? Like, if it's not crazy, if they solve the problem, I'm fine with that in terms of... No matter how they do. Of being satisfied. Whoa, whoa, whoa, Joe me, really? Yeah. A TV show has to be more than just we got from point A to point B to points. Yeah, I mean, again.

I don't disagree with you. It has to, to advance point, the journey has to mean something. The emotions have to mean something. Again, but that's not where we're discussed. We're discussing, like, if they do what they, if what, the problem that was presented, beginning of the show, they solve it, that's fine. You guys are saying that's not good enough. Well, because it's a Mcuffin.

That's nuts. Do you realize that. sometimes they don't solve the problem. Like in Infinity War, they lost. Which would be an interesting subversion of the thing. I'm like, okay, if they don't do it and it's like something that's interesting, then I'm like, oh, all right, cool. Like, we continue on that journey.

You know what I mean? You're saying if they don't do the thing. I'm saying that that, I'm saying that whether or not they do that or they don't do that is really, I guess this is what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't care about that. That's fair. Like how definitely like matters. I don't care about whether or not they fix the temporal loom or not.

Because at this point, I felt like there should have been something more interesting to care about. I don't really give a shit about whether or not they fix it. I've seen how bad it is. But to me, they should fix the temporal loom. And then the first five minutes of the show. And then they should figure out some other shit. Honestly, I don't have this show about to ever.

How's it going to end? Honestly, they're about to do some shit like, yay, the TVA. We formed a union. We far. Everybody gets a 401k. Jesus. No, this anti-union Charles Horace. No, my.

Miss Hinton, he who remains a little pizza party. Yeah. Hoffa Holmes right here, bro. You got rid of the union man. No, but they got rid of them. Oh, yeah. No, because here's the thing, check this out.

How much you want to bet? I'm locked in, brother. How much you want to bet Loki's like, all right, at this new TVA, you can go home at the end of the day. This is not a lot of time. You can go home. You can go sell jet skis on the weekend.

Okay, so what if the episode ends and Loki's now handing out like, you know, 401Ks? He's getting a body like, you know, eight-week severance if you get five of 12. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. 12 out of 12. You know what if they just made Loki into severance? The show severance. Where they like, where they like wipe your brain, like when you come into work and then they come back into your own timeline?

That would be dope if it was like a Loki severance crossover. That's insane. No, but like, okay, what if like, you know, it gets. giving out maternity leave, whatever, and then Ken shows up, or who remains, comes back, he's like, yo, you're trying to squabble, like, I kind of need this space. Like, maternity leave, there's

nothing in the TVA? Maybe, I don't know. The time doesn't work like that. I don't think they busts him back in the TVA like that. I guess, you gotta pop into a timeline and then pop out. Wait, do you, like, wait, really quick. Do you all think people fucking in the TVA? I think so. Gotta be. Yeah. Really?

But they don't remember it because they get their memories wiped. How many times do they get their memories wiped? in like... They gotta be wiping them a lot. Yeah. I feel like they gotta be wiping them a workplace, you know? Is there like a TVA

more that'll like figure out who the dad is? Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Just a year. No, it's like, I don't know if they're procreating in the TVA. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they're having babies.

Yeah. But in the same, yeah, but do they like go home? Do they have like... They don't have the Dobbs decision so they could probably... Wow. Um, look, cool. I will say this. I am interested to see where, uh,

Miss Minutes and, And Revona are. I think that's going to be... We're talking about things in episode six. Our big bads of this, which, you know, we've had problems be the big bad, but our actual big bads, which, you know, revealed themselves to be Miss Minutes. And Ravona, I'm interested in seeing them come back. Loki, need to land a plane. Need to land a plane.

Chuck, a lot of stuff is going on. Hey. Talk to us, baby. All right, we're about to talk about if the MCU is cooked There was a bomb show dropped Oh man This episode is brought to you by Prime

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Variety cover story by Tatiana Siegel and title Crisis at Marvel. Let's go through some of these bullet points really quick. The first one, there were talks to bring back the original Avengers. Quote, sources say there have been talks to bring back the original gang for an Avengers movie. This would include reviving Robert Downey Jr.'s Ironman

and Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow, but the studio hasn't yet committed to this idea. van, can you please explain why this might be one of the worst decisions they could make? Okay, can I say something real quick? Yes. I sort of expected this. Oh, I knew this was happening.

So I thought that with Secret Wars, maybe not Robert Downey Jr. and Nat, but I expected some iteration of the iteration of the OGA Avengers to be back. What I do think, though, is that the way that they are coming back is interesting. thing. If there is some sort of natural narrative where you bring back the older guys,

the older guys and gals, that's one thing. If it's natural, if it's organic, if it's in there, if it's a desperation panic move, it completely changes the way that it's perceived, right? Because it's not going to be naturally done. I think this article, and we're going to to talk about more stuff that was revealed in it is so indicative right now or it's everything that's wrong with the MCU gumbo in one. They've gone away from like actually drawing back the arrow and looking in the middle of the bull's eye, taking their time and hitting it, to shooting a bunch of arrows and trying to see which one actually connect. and thinking about doing stuff like this as a reaction

is almost anti-MCU. Yes. The MCU never, ever, ever did that. As a matter of fact, the best thing about the MCU was that they were always ahead of us. They always showed us stuff we didn't think they could do. They always did stuff that we were like, oh, my God, we can't believe they did it.

Now to know that we're to the point to where they're like, hey, man, let's just bring back to that. Tony Stark, Ironman. That's some real base level type shit. But here's the thing. They, I think we all don't give the MZU enough credit for how hard it was to let a character like Ironman. Like, by the time Tony dies, you're like, okay, they landed the plane. I can't believe after all these years I feel satisfied.

I'm going to feel very, very cheated if they bring Robert Downey Jr. back and fuck up that moment. for a check. Like, I'm going to be really, like, just gross about the whole thing. Really? Yes. Well, it depends on how they do it. If they bring them back, if they bring Robert Downey Jr. back, and it's not done perfectly, I do think it cheapens.

It's comic books, though. Yeah, but, like, the only reason that we look at this cynically is because we've been looking at Marvel, kind of cynically, in a exponential way for the past few years. Like, we wouldn't be doubting this if we heard. if like the last few Marvel projects have been satisfactory. Like, I think they forgot how to make movies. At this point,

I don't even know if they, like, they know what type of movies they want to. The reason that this reeks of desperation is because we haven't been satisfied with Marvel for quite a while. And to know that like, oh, we're thinking about bringing the old gang back together.

Okay, well, why are you thinking about that now? Is it because it's kind of been a little stinky over there? And you just want to get the money back? Is that why? I don't think they forgot how to make movies, Charles,

mentions it. Like, they're spread way too thin, right? Like, there used to be a central hub where Kevin Fagy would come in, be like, hey, this is what we need to do this, not working. And they would do like, what, six weeks of reshoots. And we would get a movie that we'd be like, hey, man, that was cool. Or, oh, man, that was great to some extent. It was rare that we would show up to theaters, be like, I don't know, that thing with

ass, you know, like. But now, with all the Disney Plus shows and all the movies, it's become a extremely hard to QC. And so at the end of the day, some stuff are going to fall through the cracks. And honestly, a majority of the movies, and most of the Disney Plus shows have all, like, suffered in quality

because of that. And so it's very much like a, hey, man, let's calm down, you know. Let's stop all the, all this stuff, like three shows, four movies a year. We were like, I mean, at the outset, we're like, oh, this is excited. We're going to get all this content.

But looking at now, it's way too much for everybody, like, control and, you know, actually take diligent time to work on. And now we're suffering the consequences. The reason why I say, I think they forgot how to make movies is because of our second point. Blade is a fucking mess. This project has gone through five writers and two directors. They're now trying to make this movie for under $100 million. And reportedly, quote, one person familiar with the script permutation say the story at one point, morphed into a narrative led by women

and filled with life lessons, Blade was relegated to the fourth lead. Play the music. Don't play the music. I didn't write this. That's not me. I'm not the source. That's crazy.

That's crazy. That's nuts. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna stand on it. I don't get a fuck. How hard is a Blade movie to write? It's niggas and vampires.

Like, just dies. Like, for real, bro. Like, what are we doing? So, we should just say that Michael Starberry on his Twitter, Earlier, Michael Starberry turned in a draft on Blade prior to the writer's strike, very talented writer on Twitter a little bit earlier, said that there could have been another version of the script that was out there, but in the script that he turned in, it didn't sound or read

anything like the scripts that were described in this variety article. Take that for a grain of salt. That is not me casting aspersions on varieties reporting. It's just me saying, Charles, you have never been more right. The dude can walk in the day and he flipped and he got a sword. Can we kill some motherfucking vampires, please? Yes. It's like, it's not that hard. Can we kill some vampires?

And it's Mahersha Ali. I don't understand how hard is it. By the way, this nigga only got a couple more years to get this done. You keep saying this. You can be an older vampire. It's fine. Bro. Myershala is a dog,

bro, a great actor. He's 50 years old, man. We get into a point where he's going to be Whistler. It's not... Jesus, you crazy. Make the fucking movie, bro. It is...

So, once again, we're getting back to the MCU and why things aren't going so well. Let me tell you guys something. I've always had this theory. You guys can tell me if I'm wrong. A lot of people talk about excellence being the most important part of greatness.

I think timing is the most important part of greatness. I think that it's always about timing. I'll tell you why. I told you if a nigga came out right now, right now, and was averaging 50 points, 25 rebounds, and 10 assists a game, he's the greatest player of all time. If you do it in 1959, 1960, 1961, not so much, right? When you do something matters as much as how you do it.

When we think about the MCU, we think about how brilliant they've been making movies, but also think about the time that they came along. Superhero movies are ramping up. The traditional action star is gone. So there were room for characters instead of actors to be action stars. And they take us all throughout this time where we're feeling pretty decent about life. And now the timing is uniquely bad for the MCU. to you.

When you think about COVID, when you think about the fact that they're running out of characters, when you think about it's uniquely bad. So the genius that Marvel is, this really should be the moment that they're proving it. This should be the moment to me

where Marvel is really digging deep. And they've done so, I'm not saying it was easy before. I'm saying this is the time where you prove just how badass you really are. Blade? They already did that. And it was good.

The easiest thing right now that it should be, the easiest thing in the world right now for Marvel to do right now is to make a really dope Blade movie. I don't even think the $100 million. I'm like, all right, that actually gives you medication. That's fine. That's fine. You don't fucking need no $250 million to make no blade movie, bro. It's swords and a nigger with a funny haircut.

Now, that would be. That's money laundering right there. That'd be crazy. need no $250 to kill my vampires, dog. You don't need it. You don't need it. Flip and cut. Rule credits.

Over. See J.I. His eyes. So can I ask you this from what you were just saying, there was a little part in this article where they say that the execs have been talking about basically replacing Jonathan Majors at the disappointment of quantum mania, obviously all the legal troubles. and there was just one little line where they were like,

they've been thinking of maybe instead of it being Kang that is going to anchor these next two Avengers movies it being Dr. Doom. And that to me is even more. So I'm like, wait, so you are potentially going to ruin Dr. Doom because you couldn't get Kang right?

Like, if they fuck up Dr. Doom, I'm kind of like, bro, like what are we doing here? Dr. Doom is a character they've never gotten right in movies. Here's the thing. It's the fact that when they mention quantum mania, and Joanna

mentioned this in her book, which you should check out maybe. Joe, who's in this article. Who is also sourced in this article to know that they thought they had a hit with quantumania, and to know that, like, when that came out,

they were like, no, our internal barometer is fucked up. We don't know what, like, we don't, we can't gauge what we think is a hit anymore. So now we got to reset everything. They got too many heat carriers. That's the problem. Our next thing is.

what we thought he was. When really, you're like, no, you have so many at bats and opportunities to get this right. What do you say? So, stay for one second. For example,

King. So you're going to pivot from King to Doom. All right. Now, obviously, the Secret Wars that... Jonathan Hickman... Jonathan Hickman,

but even the Civil Wars from 86 or whatever surround Doom. So, what does it look like to pivot? What is it, how does that, how does that change the story? Like what happens now? Like, it's such a monumental thing to do.

And this kind of goes back to some things that I felt like Marvel could have done to make things a little bit easier on themselves. I'm not going to relitigate the whole Black Panther thing. But I want people to think about when we say timing, just some of the things that have happened to the impact. Yeah, right. COVID, Chadwick, and now Jonathan Majors, the MCU is not just going through a down period creatively. This is a bad time for them. They're having bad luck as well, and I don't mean to chuck up our brother's pass and just to luck. But that's an occurrence that you cannot plan for. No. And they are panicking.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Can I ask this? Is it also just a level of it might just not. be the MCU's time anymore. Like their time as a cultural force. I just mean like they should have really after end game, they probably should have stopped for five years. They probably should have just given people time to miss them. And that's I think that that's been like the biggest

question. I could remember when I saw end game and I was like, I don't think I could ever, I don't think I never need to watch another MCU thing again. That's how I felt. And I was like would I be okay with that? And I felt like I don't know. I'm not there.

Well, no. I was like, yo man, Spider-Man. I can't wait to see what's going to happen after. No, I get that. I get that, but like, I never thought that it could ever get that high again. And I'm not trying to be, like, revisionist to be like, I wanted to stop it all there and, like, take a five-year break and then see what else you could do and re-cept the whole thing.

But when you mentioned COVID, when you mention all of those things that, like, the studio and the bigger creative engine couldn't. account for and the way that it tries to correct and like make these smaller half measures to create. And then it expounds in these things that end up taking away from the overall quality of what you're doing. And we're now here like three, four years out, like seemingly as many projects from the beginning of Ironman to end game as from the beginning of end game to now. And what do we have to show for it? A bunch of mid. A bunch of mid. A bunch of. And like, here's the thing.

The last thing that this article revealed, you know, the Marvels cost $250 million. Man. It's tracking to make $75 to $80 million domestically in its opening weekend. Nia Acosta reportedly. Like, this is,

I don't know if this actually happened, but the director essentially left to work on her next movie while the Marvels was still months into post-production and then a public test screening in Texas returned middling reviews. Now, I have seen a lot of directors and Hollywood people on social media. come to me as defense being like,

directors going to pre-production all the time. They're working on a bunch of shit. That's not that crazy. But the thing that I do makes me worry is like, I need a constant earlier in an interview was like, essentially, hey, as a director, you understand that like this isn't your movie. This is a Kevin Feigy production.

And if the reviews are middling and some of the rumors are true that this was a troubled production, they couldn't get the story right. I have to ask this. Were they sending this black woman up to fail? Because it's starting to feel like, like, now she's down with big. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

This was, like, secret invasion. Like, I'm, like, you're talking, like, she's, like, one of those, like, you bring in, like, a black head coach, you know what I'm saying, to a program that, like, just fired the white dude, bringing a black guy, right? And, like, he takes the fault, essentially, is what you're saying? Byron Scott. Like, the Byron Scott, the, what's his name? He just, the guy that, um, ah, a Lovie Smith in, in Texas, for the Texans, you know,

like you're talking about like that where they just bring the black guy in whatever happens happens if you got to deal with before your movie if you got to deal with Miss Marvel and Secret Invasion to like whether you like them or not

those did not do what they were supposed to do at all and you want like audiences to be excited like I don't care what Mia did I don't care what she did like it is like that is like a Herculean task that like you shouldn't put any director in that

position I mean you're saying it like It's a nice that it's an incident that Marvel has a... Which one is? It doesn't have a problem maintaining directors. I mean, this has been a problem. Well, I mean, to be honest with, it's been a specific problem with their female directors. True. The dark world.

Chloe Zhao. Like, Patty Jenkins, Chloe Zhao. Like, it's been a specific problem with their female directors in terms of Marvel being able to have good working relationships with them. But overall, it seems the more visionary a director you are, the more you are, the more you have your own methodology, methodology for story, your own style, someone like a Sam Ramey, someone like an Edgar Wright,

the harder it is to work for Marvel. Part of what's going on there might be a need to change that dynamic. If you have something to where Kevin Fagy is both stretched too thin

and still micromanaging every single Marvel production that comes out, that's obviously not going to work. If you're going to have your big guys stretched too thin, perhaps you need to give these directors who have made fantastic films

and other places that they've worked, more agency to make their types of movies. So, something's going to have to give there. Either you're going to keep leaning on Kevin till he's, oh, his brain's a fucking prune and he doesn't have anything left to give, or

you're going to have to let Sam Ramey be Sam Ramey. Yeah. Let Nia Dacosta. be near de Costa, let Patty Jenkins be Pay Jenkins, Edgar Wright, whomever,

even he who shall not be named Josh Whedon got pissed off to the point to where he wanted to leave Marvel because he didn't feel like it was real filmmaking anymore. So there are ways around this. You know what, hold on for a second.

We got a woman in here. Goa-ha-ha! Don't start this one. Come here real quick. Tell us, you're a lady. Oh, what? Tell us whether or not you were excited for the Marvels coming out.

I don't, okay. Why would you, why would you do that? You could just be like, hey, Kalika, what do you think about the office? Van, I don't think this is the thing that you think. Tell us, are you excited for the Marvels as a woman? Actually, not really. Damn. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

A black female director, you're just like, don't care. Don't care. No. Calica. And I hate women. No, I think everything you guys talked about, it's just not exciting right now. We don't know where we're going.

We don't know what to be excited for. Like, nothing against the individual film. But when I was looking at it, I'm like, I kind of don't know that much about these characters, and I've seen them in little bit. I don't know if I'm excited about an entire. movie about these three characters. We haven't seen Monica Rambo since

Wanda Vision. Yeah. Man, damn. That's damn. That's from the sister girl tribe too. She got twists in her hair. They don't even have the twists in their hair group of black ladies. So how do you guys feel? I mean, look, do you guys feel like this article, a lot of people

before we go, people feel like this article really didn't the reputation of the MCU and it feels like it's in shambles now. Or do you feel like this was kind of the MCU putting the fan base on notice that there were some wacky things in store? I think it's more of the former. It's stuff we've been discussing for a long time now in terms of like what we think is happening back there.

And it's all laid bare in this article. It's just like, yeah, man, they're doing too much. the people behind it are stretched too thin and they're leaving gaps in the coverage. And I think that there needs to, like, I'm looking at the PR angle of this. Like, having something like this come out now

is a bit of a pressure release valve to have some studio acknowledgement, tacit studio acknowledgment, be like, okay, like we get it. We see that something is going on that we are losing the plot on. After the Marvel's premieres and that's the same day as the Loki finale.

What other Marvel projects coming out this year? Nothing this year. The next one we're getting next year is like echo. At least confirmed. We got echo in January. So that's going to be it for the year after the Marvels. You know? So they're definitely like, hey, man, 2023.

Ah, we sold. Yeah, we got to take that MCU dog out to the back. That's it. Don't forget about guardians, guys. I don't think we got to take the dog out to the back. Right. but, you know, hey look, you know, you used to start, you used to playing 35 minutes a game.

You might need you to be to six, man, and I only play 24. You know, if we need you to close one night, we'll get you to close one night. If you're really hot, you know when I'm playing more minutes. But you're no longer starting this league. MCU looking like the new clippers, just a bunch of old washings together.

Jesus, Christ. God damn. What? No, wait, wait, wait, hold on. If we're talking about basketball teams, It's really like the like we're in this, um, 2013 to 20 or 2019 Lakers type. Oh no.

You're just too far. It's just true. You say the, the MCEU ain't got no Robert Socoran, bro. Get out of it. Some people would argue. No, no.

Some people would make talk to you, me. No, no, no. Yeah, we get to it, Vince. Love and Dunder was like the 20, you know, maybe Guardian's three was COVID's retirement season. Gal lock. No. Where they went off crazy.

He was like, man. What was the old nigger that came in for one game? And, like, he started his first game when he was 32. Andre Egru. Oh, yeah. Hey, that was crazy. We was having a blast, bro. Good time.

Guys, we're back. The first episode of Invincible has dropped after a long wait. It seems like we were watching Invincible and getting our vaccines at the Senate. It's true. Wait, hold on. So we went to, some of us went to the Invincible, like, episode one premiere that had like a little thing at the theater. It was really cool. I got to talk to the showrunner, Simon.

It was pretty awesome. Robert Kirkman had said that it had been 30 months since Invincible ended. Wow. And now we're getting the show back. That's crazy. Very long time. That's two and a half years. I don't even think we had the name.

Midnight Boys yet the first time Invincible came out. I don't think so either. It's been, yeah. Because the Midnight Boys, it didn't start until Loki. No, we were recording. Yeah, we didn't have the name. The Midnight Boys happened during the Falcon and Soldier run. Because we're the Midnight Boys.

Yeah, yeah. Look, so after a long time, a show that I wasn't as familiar with the comic book when it first came out, but I fell in love with Invisible. Absolutely loved Invincible Loved everything about it It's back now First episode Brand new villain

Started off in the most jarring way I seriously thought that I missed like five episodes I thought I was watching a wrong one Yeah This is why I hate having read the comics Because I already need See you man

You see it Chuck I'm locked it As me and Van being the non-comic book Reading Contingent here Wait, can I just say really quick? I caught up a little bit, but you know what, man, fuck the both of y'all. Like, I don't need y'all having, like, some kind of, like, little situation, because we don't know. Like, y'all know what's going on and y'all knew that it was the whole situation?

Well, I mean, so, yeah, as soon as, like, Friday Immortal, I'm like, all right, clearly, you know, they got something going on. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, this is, I don't ruin it. Wait, but really quick, you want to know how I know Invincible was back and now they got that budget. when that radio head song dropped. I was just like, and not only that, they played the whole song. Yeah,

I was like, they got that's money. We got money now. That's that base those bucks, baby. What do we think of the first episode, Chuck? I thought it was really interesting.

As someone who's read the comics, it's not a direct one-to-one. And Robert Kirkman has done this before, especially with Walking Dead. That's why I think made the Walking Dead TV show way better than it had any right to be.

In the beginning. In the beginning. In the beginning. In the beginning. In the beginning. is that they would really play with the comic books. And in this, Anxstrom Levy,

that character is not as fully fleshed out in the comic books. So it was very interesting to see them, the writers, go back and make him a more three-dimensional character. I love Anxtrum. What I wanted to ask you guys, though,

is I was like, when I read this comic book as a teen, multiversal storytelling was not what it was. There was no fucking Spider-Verse. Like, we had, the most you got was, like, crisis on infinite fucking hers. Do you think a general audience will, like, see they're like, oh, wait, Invincibles doing their Spider-Rus? And, like, for a split second, I was annoyed. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. Jesus. For a split second, I was, you can't escape it. Like, it, I'm being for real, bro. Like, you can't escape it. No, you're right. For a split second, I was annoyed.

For a split second, I was like, come on, man. Now with this, too. Like, can we just have a straight down the middle, like, stop. Story of the thing. They did it in Superman. My adventures were Superman. Yeah. They had to do it.

I'm watching for a split. I got it at the end because they were able to use it as a device to come back and make the villain into the villain. I'm assuming it's going to become. But for a second, I was like, I don't want them more multiversal. And having just come off of a Loki episode where we just spent a whole episode only to come back exactly where we started. like slightly guys a god now he's a time god I don't understand how

he was not talking about lucky we're talking about invincible I understand he's a time guy now I kind of you're kind of glotsing over that fact I feel like you like that Mark Mark is an interesting place

I mean starts off obviously you see Omneman man Omni Man is fucking terrifying bro he's a sicko man He's a real sicker man He's taking his fucking hand and just chopping niggas

and two Omley Man don't give a fuck Yo what did he say to robot what he killed him. He's like, you should have died in the womb. You should have died at birth. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, talking to, that is so mean.

You don't care. You don't care. Don't care. Mark broke Adam Eve's neck to paralyze her. So he didn't have to kill her. And he's been practicing that. Working on that technique in Chicago, apparently. This show does such a good job of making a superhero show

where the stakes feel relatable and the characters that are sinister, you feel they're evil. You feel scared for cartoons. Even in just the simple throwaway line of like, oh, so that was the thing that you were practicing in Chicago. Like, even with that one line, we know that they've been doing this for a long time.

They've been laying waste to cities upon cities and that Mark has been holding back a little bit to not immediately kill people but paralyze them. Yeah, it's crazy. I thought it was, it's not funny, but they're having that conversation and they're like, oh man, like, you got to kill these people. It's like, you know, that's what we got to do, guys. I'm sorry. You know, you guys are for Viltrum.

For Viltram. Like, they're so relaxed about it. And, like, it's like kind of terrifying. It's not like, you know, they're like super menacing and super evil. This is just a regular Tuesday. Let me ask you a question. And that's what's good about it, right? So there's another line in a big movie that we all know

that kind of asked that same question, but they use words instead of actions. Remember, in Avengers, he says, Fury says, we don't have any quarrel with you. And Logan says, does an aunt have a quarrel with a boot? You're too insignificant to matter. The reason why Mark and Omni Man look at them like that, the reason why they don't make a big deal about killing them,

is because when you stop on a bug, you don't make a big deal about it. It's a lower life form. It is not something that you think twice about killing. It's not something that you think twice about exterminating. When it does the thing that you don't want it to do, it dies. And to see someone treat like a human being like that, even in cartoon shape, it's like fucking shit these guys are...

You can feel it. Yeah. Yeah, like, Mark is on the beach. Big screen, he's like, we didn't want I to do it. We don't have to kill Millingy guys, but you didn't listen. So it's like, damn, this is like regular, degular. That's nuts.

What I think the show actually does really, really well is that then it gives you the flip of it because I think the emotional core of this episode is like, seeing how devastated Mark's mom is and when she was like, she's like, I was a pet, that's when you're just like, oh, this is the

flip side of what do you do, even Cecil is like, Mark, you got to chill. I'm not letting what happened with your dad happened with. Like, I think that this first episode did a very, very good job of not sweeping under

the rug. How cataclysmic, the Omni Man versus Invincible Fight was not only just for Invincible and Omneman, but for everybody else in their orbit. Everybody else is still like reeling from that. Yes, because we never get that. Like, in Superman movies,

we never really get that, like, 45 minutes of okay like Superman and Zah just fucking fought the world even the way we think about the world has changed forever we will now recover even the guardians are like I love the guardians

where it was like what are the guardians without Omni Man like what are they they can't even beat this giant it's taking them so much they were so whack they're so sorry like they were leaning on him for so much like he was gone you're right everywhere the episode did a good job

of like showing the absence of Anya I mean he cut you off though No I mean I just think that is what I do That's what I loved about the comic And I think that this first episode It was a little slow It was a little bit of table setting

But even the fact that like Oh now when Invincible has to become Kind of this world's omniban And he beats up the mallers and shit It was so I felt so bad for Mark Because at the end when everything explodes He's like Wait what the f like

It's happened happening again. Like, my actions are causing hundreds and thousands of people to die. And Cecil's like, that's what happens when you work for me, like, chalk it up to the game. Cecil's the man. He's crazy. I think I like Cecil. The mark of everything, I mean, the episode after, you know, we get out of the alternate universe, episode airs in like, Mark is saving people, but not letting himself be seen. Yeah. You know, like he's doing it. It feels like a responsibility. but because of everything that happens to his father, right? Like the first time we see our mark,

he's looking at the spot in the mountain where his dad, he'd absolute hat out of him, right? And he's just trying to get back to a place where he feels like he can be useful again, you know? And that, I thought that was, like, very poignant and very, like, important to start with him, start with because the last season

he was so cocky. He was so eager to be like, oh yeah, I'm ready to help. I got those. Let's go. When you get beat by your pops, it kind of hummed you a little bit. Well, it's something else, though.

Like, you know, Daddy's, it's tough to take a shot at him, man. They got that old man's strength. But there's something else about it is last year he was confident in who he is. Yeah. He knew that he was a good guy. He knew that his father was a good guy.

He knew that his dad represented the good in the world, and that's what he was doing. Now, and the show does such a good, subtle job of this. Like, when Mark is flying around saving people, he's like, he's listless a little bit. He's out of his head. He's out of his head, right? He's going through the motions of doing stuff

as if he's trying to prove to himself that he is who he thought that he was. He's flying around, laying around, doing the whole deal. He's still doing the same stuff, but he thinks now that there's a chance that he's a world killer. Right. Like his dad is, he thinks that he's a charlatan a little bit. He knows what he's there for.

And so part of this now is going to be Mark for himself, reestablishing what his purpose is. So the whole show has changed, really, which is very exciting to start off a show with a completely new narrative goal and target for your main character. I mean, also, we have the thing where now Mark is aware of the Viltermites' tendency to have anger issues.

So it's so interesting in this episode, he's like, he was about to kill those villains in the beginning. He's just like, fuck these motherfuckens. Like, he slams the tape. like I think that's also interesting. It's like Mark is now like, oh, if I get angry, I can turn into Omni Man. Like, I can, if I just, if I go too far, what happens? So I'm very interested to see how Mark deals with essentially being the Hulk now.

Can we talk about the immortal for a second? It looks like real quick. Worst super I've ever seen. Worst? Terrible. Worst? I don't know about worst. I've seen him get packed up too many times for me to take him seriously.

Here's the thing, though, Shocker gets packed up way more times. but I like true I'm I'm looking at a like I know it's all the universe and whatever but we see it's up against fucking almond man

that's the one of his hanging man that's the one he's hanging him up he's owing three okay but again one more's a sweet anybody else one more is a sweet the immortal's pretty great

I don't I don't know now the immortal's the fucking leader bro he is like showing up at a showing up at a kid's house being like come on bro that's crazy and you And again, we know if Invincible really wanted it, Omni Man's out of there.

Or not, Immortals out of there. So you're making empty threats. I don't buy it. I don't believe in you. That guy's got to save the world. I mean, if Mark, I would have slapped the shit out of it. If the Immortals been living for 2,000 years, like, you'll be talking crazy too. Like, you get killed so many times.

Like, fuck it. I'll come back. Who cares? Also, that motherfucker was racist at one point. So he's looking at Mark like, yo, 2,000 years ago, I would have put you in a place. What? He's 2,000 years old. I'm just saying, like, I've seen the immortal get packed up too many times for me to, like, put my full faith in them.

Mark got his ass kicked again. Mark get his ass kicked to every show, too. His name is Invincible. A name is invincible is hell. We should watch the next Invincible and have a drinking contest every single time. They say the name invincible because it got to a point in this episode where I was like, what is going on. I think they're making fun of the fact

that they never said it in the last season. No, no, no, no, no. The bit was, so you know how season one, they would be like, man, if he's really going to be some, he's got to be, and then the title scream would play, Invincible. I was waiting this entire episode.

I was like, I get the joke. You get exactly. I'm like, guys. They did it like five or six times where like literally they, like, they wait for a beat. It's like, you're going to have to call. Invincible.

It's like, all. I see it. Yeah. We can keep it pushing. You know what I mean? But I mean, it was, like, after the, like, I think after Rex Blow said it near the end of the episode, I guess. I get it. I got it.

Time to go. Overall, we were feeling the first episode, though. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I mean, again, like, I'm with Charles. I know where this story kind of goes. I mean, she's just see how it differs from the comic books.

But, uh, man, it's, uh, there's a good stuff coming. Oh, shut up, Joe. It's a mean, with that shit eating grin on your face because you know what's about that happens. It's going to be fun. Get off me. Guys, on Sunday, splash page will return. So, Jess breaks down. All the Easter eggs you need to know for Loki,

Episode 5 on Monday, the House of Arr will be giving you their deep dive on Loki episode 5. You can find that on the House of Our podcast feed. Look, guys, our producer, Steve, the architect, almond. Jomi Adirond on socials, hashtag Jomi, the Circle of Life Adiron. An additional production from Arjuna Rangapal, Steve. Excuse me. Charles, take us out. Wait, no, hold on.

I want to hear Steve take us out. No, Steve, take us out. No, absolutely not. I can't. I don't have it like you do, Charles. I'm not too proud. Invincible was good. Loki was bad.

Once again, I am always right. Because the MCU is going outside. So what do you do? Weed carriers, Jomey? You don't know what the weed carriers? No, I'm not lock. Oh, interesting. Oh, wait, really?

I was, I was, I was, I was, Do you know what it is, Steve? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a nigga in the crew that carries the weed. Yeah, the guy with the backpack. Yeah, like, you know,

the phone guy. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not locked there. Was there like, okay, it's interesting

that you don't know the vernacular. Nah, I'm not outside like that. Like, you know, I don't participate in the medicinal marijuana. I want to say something real quick. Jemmy, I see why he's so successful now. At the live show, I met Jomi's parents.

The nicest to human beings I ever met before in my life. I meet his mom. She opens her purse. She gives me out a little cup of Joloff rice. She gives it to me. That's crazy. That's insane. She's like, she's like, Joe.

No, his parents were so nice, bro. It was such a pleasure to me. your family. Right. That's so great.