The Ringer-Verse - Looking Back on Netflix's MCU Shows and the Street-Level Superhero Bracket | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

The Midnight Boys return to the dark and gritty world of Netflix to look back on all of the Marvel superhero shows and talk about their favorite moments in 'Daredevil' (08:53), 'Jessica Jones' (18:47), 'Luke Cage' (24:59), and more! They also tally up their greatest street-level superheroes in the Midnight Massacre to determine the best street-level hero of them all (56:17).  Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Guests: Steve Ahlman and Jomi Adeniran Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennesse, host of The Big Picture. Every week, we're telling you all you need to know about the hotly contested Oscar races, the stars at the center of them, and what it all means for the future of Hollywood. Don't head to your Oscar party without listening to The Big Picture for free on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or inundice. infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight

weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Want to support your gut health? Take Activia's gut health challenge by enjoying two Activia yogurt today for two weeks

and see if you feel a difference. With billions of probiotics and 20 years of scientific expertise, activia is one of the easiest and tastiest ways to start your gut health ritual. Try Activia today. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Enter the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the Ringers' Nexus podcast's feed for all things, fandom.

We are. Jelmi, the explainer at dinner on you, got questions, he's got answers. We are, Steve, all the joy, the cuddly sactifice bear. We are. Coke Baby Chuck, the 24-carried closer. And of course, we are old man, Van, he of the receding hairline. Together we are known as of the Midnight Boys. Programming Reminders.

Next Wednesday, it's awards season. And in honor of the Ringer versus Anniversary, getting old now, the entire Ringerverse family will be hosting its annual award show celebrating and awarding the greatest moments in fandom. Be sure to check in next week for that. On today's show, I'm going to chat and celebrate Netflix's Defenders. The Defenders are going to be on Disney Plus. They're now on Disney Plus.

A Melding of the World. She get a multiversal mashup before Dr. Strange in the multitude, multiverse of madness. Multitude of men. Shut up. This is a big deal because this is like really a big moment in the fandom here.

I never thought it would happen. Why didn't you think it would happen, Chuck White? They always, it felt like they always treated the Netflix shows like the redheaded stepchildren. And then there was like agents of shields who like they wouldn't even claim. They were like, no, we need the birth certificate.

It's crazy because they dipped their toe in the water. They tried to make it. Because you remember in Daredevil, it was like, oh, this apartment has gone like this since the incident. And the incident, of course, we know it was supposed to have been the attack on New York. But they never really fully committed to it. They never really fully committed to it. But now these worlds are meeting.

It's causing a bunch of continuity issues, not just in the world of the lore, but also in the real world, some parents groups I saw are coming out and saying there's too much shit and the Netflix stuff for it to be on Disney Plus. It's very interesting. We're going to talk about all of this. And we're also going to do a martial arts tournament of all the street-level superheroes, which I am very excited about.

Okay? Because I got to be honest with you. There's a lot of scaling issues that when it comes down to these street-level heroes. Absolutely. And I have a question now about whether or not Shang-shee is actually a street-level hero in the MCU. I don't know if he is or not.

We can debate that when we get to it. I think that's on my short list. It's on your short list. Yeah, I bet it is. Before we get started, Van, you said you had something you wanted to tell me. People are worried about my well-being. Listen, let me tell you something. I'm scared.

People don't like weed baby Chuck. Weed baby Chuck? Weed baby Chuck is a mellow chuck who comes on the podcast, all mellowed out. Look, you're drinking some tea right now, and you're all zin. And they don't like Phil Jackson, Chuck. That's not what they like. They don't like him. Okay?

People like Coke Baby Chuck. Have I, wait, are the streets saying I've gone soft? The streets are not saying that you've gone soft. The streets are saying that you're a bitch. Damn. And the reality is, Chuck, I, as a member of the Midnight Boys, want to empower you to get off the same terrible takes that you've been getting off since we started this podcast and not let any of the people move you out of the way. You know what I mean? You, you, Charles, you're the only

man who would say that age of Ultron is better than the OG Avengers. I stand by that take. I still to the day. We all went, by the way, you've won battles. People don't see the battles that Charles was won. Like, we all went to see Venom, let there be carnage, and we laughed at the movie in a not good way. Charles is the one that

made us see that that movie was actually good journalism. Very good journalism. Who's us? Joe me. Oh, wait, also, but I want to defend myself, is it that I'm a bitch now I've gone soft, or have the midnight

mob and the midnight writers, have I been slowly like, it's like a phantom thread, I've slowly just been putting the poison in and they're starting to get used to they like it a little bit. They're just like, oh shit that in the beginning of the pod, they'd be like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. They're like, hmm, maybe Coke, maybe Chuck has a point. Got to up the dosage, man.

Nah, you, you Rudy Giuliani, bro. Yo, Yo, fuck that. You don't know, no, no. Whatever way the wind blows. He's outside of the four seasons. Oh, don't do me like that.

Rudy Giuliani, whatever the wind blows. If fucking Trump is president, now you're with him. You know what I mean? Like, you Rudy Giuliani did all of that to take down the mob and now look at you. Jesus. Christ. Laying down with Borat. You know what I'm saying?

My feelings are hurt, bro. Wow. We just want to make sure that Chuck feels empowered, man. Look, we, seriously, seriously, on the Midnight boys, you guys are going to hear some takes that maybe are off-putting. It's because we haven't had time to think of through yet. All right, we're giving you guys an instant. Point of the pod.

So Charles don't be gunshot. So that's all the streets are saying. People did actually hit me up and say that, by the way. People were like, tell Charles, like, tell Charles, we like that shit. One of my home boys, a straight thug from Baton, Rouge. Straight thug. This is a real story. Hit me up. Like, say,

bro, hey, man, just to let you know that dude we used to hang out with back in the neighborhood, he did. But that's not what I called. I was all called about. Wait. That's literally how this went. Hey, you remember a homeboy we used to play basketball with? Jeez. I'm like, God damn, bro. It was like, damn, but that's not what I'm talking about, bro. Let's talk about the podcast

real quick. Don't tell me. Jesus Christ. Oh, wow. It's like, hey, bro, don't tell me, Charles going soft. man. Don't tell me Charles going soft, man. Like Charles, I like that. Charles be looking at the rest of y'all

and y'all be talking about this shit, Charles'd be like, fuck y'all. That's exactly what he said. I like Charles. Wait, wait, what's your man's name? I can't tell you. I don't know if we want to divulge that. You can't even get me?

I want to shout a no. Nah, bro. All right, he who should not be named the realist, it's a public apology for me. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to get back to my old ways. I'm not saying that name on this air. He too deep in it, bro.

He too deep in it, bro. And the Midnight Boys for the Streets. Yeah, he too deep in it, man. By the way, last thing I say about him is, is very interesting to, I'm going to bring him on here one day. It's very interesting to have to listen to his, his analysis of the movies because he loves the movies

but he'd be like, say, Fall, I'm gonna keep it real with you, bro. Man, I know Bucky Captain America around and everything, they've been thugging, but I don't know, man, I might have to let all homie go, bro, because, man, he was, he was, bro. Bro, I might have to let homie go, bro.

He was bringing, he was making it too hot. Now I got all these people on me. Brutkey, Bucking was making it too hot, times you get a homie, he gets a little trigger happy. You got to let that man go, bro. Man, let him go. You don't think you should have let him go? I'm like, yeah, bro, he should have let him go, bro. Dog, we need him on the pod.

All right. Now, look, in celebration of the Marvel Netflix shows, Hitting Disney Plus, the Midnight Boys are going to celebrate and speculate and all things defenders, Punisher 2. The slate of shows at it includes Daredevil, Jessica Jones, El Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and the Punisher. Okay, let's talk about Daredevil. Premiered, April 2015, was one of the biggest things. in pop culture, not just fandom,

was one of the biggest things in pop culture on Netflix when it premiered. All right, you guys, we are going to be talking about the Defenders Netflix universe. If you have not seen these shows, there are going to be some spoilers involved.

What do you remember liking it about the show as it premiered, and how well has it aged or endured, Charles? This was the one, Daredevil Season 1 actually raised the bar so high in my opinion that with each successive season of the other shows I was just like, oh good but not Daredevil.

That's how much I remember when I watched it. I think I put it on on a Friday, watched every single episode, and was like, fuck yeah. The hallway scene is still one of the best fight scenes in any superhero show ever. I was pumped for Daredevil season one. I still think that this shit holds up.

What about you, Vin? Watch it all the time. It's one of Kalika's favorite shows. It's one of the shows that we bonded over. I should call her in right now, but... Wait, where were you out in your relationship with Kalika at this point? Because that's... 2015's a while.

That was 70 years ago. Been together for a long time. I'll tell you something. We were in a relationship and we were watching Daredevil. Now, we'll call Kalika in the time. talk about Daredevil, but I got to be honest with you. Kalika's getting maybe a little too much shot for me. This is my thing.

Yeah. She kind of showed you up a little bit. I ain't going to watch. The fans love her. The fans love her. You know what I mean? Like I don't know. Around this is different situation.

Like Kalika's really popping out in these streets right now. She told me, she's like, this morning I was like, hey, can we switch cars? I got to go somewhere. She just looked at me and threw her keys at me. It was like, man, second rate podcaster go move my fucking two. That's like, whoa. Jesus. Now she's great.

But like, seriously, we, we bonded over this. Like, this was the beginning. And for her, in a way, it was kind of her introduction to Daredevil. I feel like it was that for a lot of people because Daredevil have obviously been around of a popular character. There had been a movie with Ben Affleck. They had been the Elektra Movie. There had been other things that, you know, Daredevil, very popular Kevin Smith run,

Daredevil, Daredevil, Daredevil, whatever. But in this particular show, it was so character-focused. almost as if you didn't need to understand the MCU, the lore of comic books, or anything in particular to understand this show for what it was. It almost birthed the character in a way that is very, very perfect. And you don't really get that in comic book movies or shows that much. Normally, you have to have some understanding of what you're getting yourself into.

It's normally for the fans in order to understand show, but that was different about the Daredevil show. You didn't have to at all. He doesn't become Daredevil actually in the entire show until like the last episode. So, like, literally walked the audience on and still

paid it off to everybody that was familiar with the character. Jumby, Steve, what do you guys think? I think that you're absolutely right in terms of Daredevil being one of like the premiere net Disney shows. I had no prior knowledge about Daredevil.

All I knew was that the Daredevil Ben Affleck movie had Ubastank in the soundtrack. So, that was all I knew. It's not as bad as people remember. I didn't say it was bad. I just said all I know was that there was Ubastank, you know, on the CD. I was like, okay. I don't even want to, it's so bad that I don't even want to correct you on the pronunciation of that band.

It's Hubastank. Is it Ubastank? Who is it? I don't want to be that guy. I hate that I'm that guy. Steve, like you down with the, with the brothers,

but that shit is the whitest shit I've ever heard. It's really, it's bad. Like, the fuck is me doing, like, dog.

It's my Nigerian accent. That's my fault. But yeah, I had no prior knowledge on Daredevil, so I went in just, just blind, and Charlie Cox knocked it out the park.

That dude is Daredevil. And for three seasons, it was just, it was really incredible television. What about you, Steve? I honestly, I think the first thing that popped out in my mind was this was my first introduction to like the fancy prestige show opening title card sequence that we've now come to know and love where it's like everything gets fancy. It's like this lavish like blood animation like forming the shapes of like the city and

then it eventually makes his cowl and everything like that. And that's when I just like lost my mind and I was in from that moment. And ever since then, I can't think of a show that kind of was on everybody's lips from the moment that it started. And it was just like a whole season out once in one go. Like we talk about binge models and week-to-week models. But like the fact that like we can spend a weekend watching an entire season of a show that was based on Daredevil and everybody's excited for it, it was absolutely incredible. I was going to, I was going to ridicule you about that, Steve. It's kind of a Jordy LaForge take.

For what? The rest of us are talking about the show and you're talking about the opening credits, but I'll tell you something. That was the first moment that I remember it. The opening credits were amazing. We watched the opening credits. There's only two shows

that I'd never skip the opening credits. I even skip the Sprinno theme song, which is a badass, but I never skip, obviously, Peacemaker, and I never skipped Daredevil. It's actually amazing. Chuck, what are you going to say? I hate when people say that.

They're like, I never skip Peacemaker or Daredevil. I'm like, I'll always, Like, skip, I don't got time for this. I'm gonna die one day. Anyway. Yo, one thing I'll never forgive this show for, like, season one is like immaculous. Season one is like perfect.

But I remember how psyched I was going into season two. I'm like, man, they're going to do bullseye. This shit is going to be off the chain. Bullseye, bullseye, bullseye. And I was like, damn, they did bullseye terribly. Like, terribly. I couldn't disagree. more.

What? I kind of love Steve. I couldn't disagree more. You sound like a goddamn fool. Stop the cap. You're like Bullseye's season two? Yeah.

That was season, wasn't that season three though? That wasn't season two, first of all. Oh, season three, season three. That's how forgettable it was. I don't even know what season it was. No, no. You're out of your mind, you punk,

motherfucker. Boozai was great. No. Was I was great. What didn't you like about Bullseye? What didn't you dig about? It's just like if you read the comments like Bullseye is that dude, like Bullseye be fucking everyone up, everyone up. And I just didn't get that same level of prowess, that same like fear of like, oh, this guy just needs a pen in his hand and he could fucking kill Captain America.

What the y' y'all? He was lethal. But not Bullseye comic book level. Let's show. So you preferred Colin Farrell's one. I mean, I ain't going to say all that. Like, let's not do that. I thought Dex killed it. I thought Dex was in his bag.

I thought Dex was really great. And by the way, the show was twisted turns. They killed Ben Irk in the first fucking season of the show. Oh, yeah. And let me tell you something about the show else. We'll talk about Bull's eye real quick. But I want to talk about Kingpin, who, in my opinion, is one of the best five Marvel villains

ever on screen. Man, come. King Pin is fantastically played by Vincent Danfrio. Denofrio! And it was just, they built his character as much as they built their devil. Made you feel for him.

Made him a completely three-dimensional character. Loved it. Loved Bullseye. Loved Elektra. I thought that this show, I thought that maybe there was a little bit of a low, season two where they tried to do a little bit too much with some of the Punisher

storylines, but season three got right back to form. I love this show. Love it. I also will say they improved to me with the lecture. I'm like, damn, like, yeah, Charlie, I get it. I get it. I know why you're running around like a fool. I understand. But also, the weird thing, too, that I thought was just like great is how brutal they make Daredevil as a fighter because they make you believe that this guy, was trained by stick and all he has is like his grit and gumption

and he could still fuck up ninjas. I like, I don't think that there has been a Marvel show or movie since that has had that level of visceral fighting where I was kind of like, geez, there'd have to calm the fuck down. They did already.

Yeah, he was doing his thing. He also, he got his ass kicked a couple of times. Really, really badly. But I like that. Yeah, it's great. So, like it was fantastic. It shows you, you know, what the stakes are when you're out there flipping around and all of that stuff. This episode is brought to you by Paramount Plus. Beth and Ripp are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch.

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and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus Jessica Jones soon after premiered in November 2015 now stand out

from Jessica Jones season one for me I loved Christian Ritter as Jessica Jones that's one of my little baby she used to be second team all white girl

back in the day she was on the second team Van was out here drinking milk that's crazy she was on the second team second team all white girl for sure

Wow. Valuable rotation minutes comes in. I would say she was kind of like the, not quite a Jordan pool. Like a Terrence man, you know, like the player that comes in and every once in a while, you're like, oh shit, are you bawling? Oh, look at you.

Go ahead, Terrence, man. You like the Luke Cage scenes. You're like, all right, all right. That's right. Yeah, I mean, that even makes you, that makes it a little bit more, you know, you know, it can happen. Oh, okay, whatever.

All right. She premiered in November 2015. Christian Ritter was amazing. I have to admit, though, David Tennant as Kilgrave, aka Purple Man in this show, was just sublime, perfectly played by David Tenant. Kilgrave was played with a certain vulnerability, but this sort of sinister appeal that every villain needs to have. said it at the end of the season, I was like the biggest mistake that they were ever going to

make was that they killed Kilgrave. It just was going to be a decision. Just an unbelievably scary power that he had, too. Just the power of suggestion. Charles, what did you think about Jessica Jones? Yeah, I could tell you I could agree with the Kilgrave take because he was such a good villain. There was times where I just had to tap out.

I'm like, this is too. Like, people don't really remember. That series was dark. There was, like, things that Jessica was going through that I was like, man, I don't, I had to look away. It was a rough series in terms of, like, what they put her through. I agree with the Kilgrave take. But yeah, Jessica Jones, like, Chris Ritter really did her thing in that first season. I don't, I don't got any, uh, wait, one thing I will say, did you ever read the comic book?

It's based on alias. Alias, Brian Michael Bendis. Wow boy, some of those issues starts with an anal scene. I'm like, this is where we were. Like, this is, this is, we're in a wild time. God, God. What? I'm saying what happened in the first issue.

I'm not, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we, I'm with you. I want you. That's nuts. I wonder what the midnight. I wonder what the Midnight Boys is rated. I wonder what I rating is. I put.

Are we getting the parents upset? Is that is my question? Parents of what? Like, is the, I don't know, child protection league or whatever, whoever got mad at Disney Plus? Like, are they getting on our ass? Are they putting stickers on our albums?

On the Midnight Boys? Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, but the reality is this, like, we're the boys. Being that we're boys, we can't be mature about this stuff.

I mean, we should try, though, right? Nah, fuck that. Fuck that. Now you guys are getting gun shy. We're finally rolling. And now you guys want to pull it back. Oh, my name is Tipper Gore, Jomey.

First of all, I don't get on here. I don't get on here, start wilding. I'm Jomey from the 700 Club, Pat Robertson Jomey. Oh, God. Jesus Christ. By the way, Jomey is the horniest one. For real. For real.

That's not true. Jomey's DM game is crazy, though. Girls have been complaining. They've been complaining. To bring it all the way back. Charles does make a good point. There's a part on Jessica Jones, season one, episode 10, where she goes to her boss's house, right? And her boss's wife, like, they're in the middle of a divorce, and co-graves, like, cut her using a thousand cuts using glass.

And she's slicing, and she's slicing, and she's slicing. And then to stop her, she pushes her wife, her head hits a table. you see her head hit the table and then she's dead. I had to like pause. I had to pause it and come back like 30, 35 minutes later. I just could not take it. It was

scary. Very scary. How real it was. Making people jump off buildings making people run into traffic. It was just it was an intense show. Very visceral. Do any of these moments in any of these federal shows? Because these are dark shows. Like have it at, was there any point where

like you caught yourself being like this is kind of too over the top this is a little too much all the time for me all the time i didn't watch the second season of jessica jones is i'm good like it's just i just didn't i don't want to go into that world again it just made me i was like well but it is very dark i don't know i'm not like a i'm not like a puck-ass bitch like that yo man what is with you today but i'm the problem i'm the problem what is with you I'm just fucking with you out. No, it didn't. No, no, it didn't.

Well, that's not true. There is a scene. You know what I don't like? And everybody has their thing. I don't like stabbing and cutting. Bullets and stuff don't bother me. But, like, stabbing. There's one scene in Game of Thrones

where one of the White Walkers is, like, stabbing one of Brands crew, like in the snow, stabbing over. I hate stabbing, right? And there is a brutal, brutal fight scene. in Daredevil. He's going up against one of the ninjas' names, skips my name.

And he's getting, he escapes my mind, he's getting cut up with like the knives and stuff. And I'm like, oh, right. And he's got a little like knife on a string kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it keeps like it keeps slicing him. And I, every single time I had to look away, I'm like, ugh. Jesus. This is a lot. And they kept

going on and on and on and on. But even that was narrative because they needed to set up why he needed his suit. Now, Luke Cage comes in 2016. Luke Cage comes to life and all of black Twitter rejoices. I liked Luke Cage.

I specifically liked Mahershila Ali in Luke Cage, especially season one. I thought he was fantastic. I enjoyed Luke Cage. What did you guys think of Luke Cage? Luke Cage was a huge, huge deal when it came out.

I love the first season, especially Cotton Mouth. I like, I don't really have, there was two seasons of it. The first one I was just like tapped in, boom, boom. But the minute I was like, there was always this thing going on in the background of Luke Cage, a little bit of, I don't want to be harsh, but cornyness. When Luke Cage dabbs, I was always just like. Is it cringe?

Is it cringe? I was going to ask if it was a little cringe. It was tough. Like, I remember being like, man. There was always just a little undercurrent of like, of just like, you know, all black. who like means well but like the kids don't really fuck with them like that he's a little too square with lukech that i found hilarious i think the first half the first half of season one is like i don't want to say perfect but exceptional like him the him and cotton mouth back and

forth is great then they inexplicably for whatever reason decide to kill him and go with um um diamond back yeah yeah And that's when I was like, yeah. It's not, it's not explicable. It's not explicable. Mershaw Ali had other things that he had to do. Which, I mean, good for him. Like, I'm mad at a brother getting a bag, you feel me?

But, man, if they had kept that through line, I'd just sound like Maria's like, you know, the big, Mariah, sorry, is the big, big bad at the top. But Cottonmouth was exceptional, you know, for me. And so for him to just go out like that and then have them not replace him, It felt like everything else felt like a letdown. For all of these shows except for probably Iron Fist, they start, if not continue, so strong in those first half of a season.

And I quickly identified, like, I think it was probably around maybe Jessica Jones, definitely in Luke Cage where they're like, around the halfway point of a season, there's like three episodes that didn't that may or may not need it to be there. And I feel like Luke Cage could have ended its first season when Luke Cage got shot. and was thrown in the dump truck. And like, that's a moment that you could have ended a season on.

Let me tell you something. Now only are you right, but Disney took the hint. They did. Yeah. Now only are you right, Steve Arino, aka CapSuck fuck.

Like Disney took the hint. You are absolutely right. These shows were 13 episodes long. And when Disney Plus stuff came along, They said, you got a hot seven. Bring the heat for that hot seven. You couldn't be more right, Steve. I think those shows and the problems that they have,

the problems that they had maintaining the inertia of a narrative for 13 episodes are the reason why a lot of these shows now, you get seven, you get eight episodes. The boy still manages to do it with more episodes, but a lot of these have pared down the amount of stuff that they give you. I'll never forget the probably one of the best episodes of TV and out of all of these shows is the midway point in Jessica Jones season one where Kilgrave is walking Jessica Jones through like that house and he's just like explaining everything.

And it's like the biggest revelation about like, no, you have to kill this guy. You have to kill him. Like he is irredeemable. It's not like. And then the next three episodes are them just trying to meander around and figure out other shit before killing this guy.

Where the resolution needs to happen right now. As much as I love Jessica Jones season one, it's that interesting like two to three episode middle ground where like nothing really happens and we didn't really need to do this. Or they shift to the character like Trish and they give Trish episode. Yeah, I was like what?

Why are you? Oh my man. Well, it's interesting you say 13 episodes because you know, like, they could have just did 10. But, you know, tech on, you know, three extra episodes. I think this was a Netflix thing at the time. Like, they thought just in terms of investment that they knew people would watch 13. Not like, I remember reading articles where people were just like, why can it be shorter?

And like, if I'm remembering it right, Netflix kind of had their algorithm and like, this is how many people will watch. Right. And think back. Like, these were kind of the early day. of superhero TV as we knew it now. And this was a trailblazing moment for a lot. Like, I don't fault them for giving it a lot of episodes because in hindsight, like, you know, great.

More than that there are. No, no, no. The Daredevil season worked even with it. It's just some of these other characters. I felt like they didn't really know specifically where they wanted to take the story as much. And there's less familiarity. And the familiarity, although it didn't have much to do

with the success of Daredevil, it still mattered that they had so, much ground to cover and ground to work with with who Daredevil is. Wait, before we get to Luke Cage, I have to shout out my favorite part. Simone Missick as Misty Knight. She's great.

I had the biggest crush on her. I was just like, she's like, come on. Amazing. And they never let Misty Knight get to where we needed Misty Knight. They never let Missy Knight get to where we needed Misty Knight. But she was fantastic as Misty Knight. A star making turn, I'd say.

That's Misty Knight. She was fantastic. Yeah. So I want to Shout her out real quick. Absolutely. That's amazing. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimfaya, proper training is required.

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to learn more or visit trimfair radio.com. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels, make a great, sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales

sign storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. That's about Iron Fist. We must. We must. I used to think about Iron Fist. And I'm going to be just completely honest with you here. Iron Fist is the worst, most terrible thing that's ever happened. Cap. You can feel that way.

Look. In humans is right there, Van. In humans is right there. Humans is pretty bad. I say Iron Fist is worse and I'll tell you why. Iron Fist is supposed to be a one million level degree black belt, right? You do not have a show

if you have bad martial arts. I want you guys to hear me again. You don't have a show. if the martial laws are bad. I saw this guy because there was a lot of talk that somebody else should have been Ironfish. Do you remember that there was a, what was the Asian actor's name? Louis Tan.

A lot of people were saying Cass Lewis Tan is Iron Fest. Cass Lewis Tan is Iron Fis. And it was a way to do two things. Number one, it would have taken away the fact that the Iron Fis character is sort of a white savior type of situation, being that he's Danny Rand and he's a white guy and he goes and all of that stuff. And number two, you'd have somebody who actually was skilled at martial arts doing it.

They went with Finn Jones for Iron Fist, and immediately, immediately, you could tell that he in no way looked like he was a master of the martial arts. Oh, no, it was bad from the moment. I was like, because you saw the dragon on his chest, and I was like, come on, man, we ain't doing this. So then the point is, what are you looking at then? Like, seriously, like, if, if, if, if, if, if, if you have an iron fist who is a poor martial artist and it looks terrible, like, what are you looking at?

Like, there's really nothing to, you know what I mean? It's like, what are you? The fights were, the fights were bad. Like, I don't remember, I could not tell you one fight that was iconic in that series. And people forget, like, we were coming off of the Daredevil. So we knew, we knew what they could do in Netflix. And I'm sorry, but my man just did not know how to like pull that shit off. Can I also say this too?

Was there a little bit, this was around the time when Game of Thrones pop in? Was there a little bit of like a Game of Thrones curse anytime they tried to cast one of those characters in a superhero movie? Because they had the one who played the Starks in the X-Men movie, which was trash. Then they had this. And I was just kind of like, oh, man, I don't know if the Game of Thrones thing really could. next in the comic book realm. I don't think he connected

because he didn't look like he could bust a grape in a fucking fruit fight. He didn't look like he could bust a fucking grape. It was whack. Calico was so annoyed. Like, we watch it all the time. It was stupid. And because of this, the show really didn't work for me.

Oh, no, wait, wait. The thing, I think that's even worse than the martial arts. Because the martial arts is bad. That's bad. but the Meecham family, I hated every single person. Like, anytime they went to that storyline, I'm like, who gives a flying fuck?

It was the most annoying storyline I have ever seen on screen. Terrible. It was why it is. It's all bad. Steve, what do you think? Not the best. No, it really isn't. I remember the backlash for Finn Jones getting cast.

I remember everybody, like, really, like, questioning whether or not like the like the Netflix experiment for Marvel is even worth it at that point because at this point we knew that the defenders was going to come and that all four of these characters are going to be sharing the screen together and we're like we just can't take any more

of this guy but I think the bigger the bigger question is like you know these are coming to Disney they're like you know a soft acknowledgement of it bringing it into the MCU canon is Danny Rand worth no hell no revisiting at all

They have to recast them. Either they recast them, or they leave it out. I'm going to be honest with you. I feel like to be, and I don't know if this is even appropriate to say, I feel like the presence of Shang Xi and the MCU means that we don't really

need Iron Fis. Look, I'm aware that Iron Fis and Shang Shi operate in two completely different ways in two completely different arenas. I get it. But it almost makes the character seem a little bit redundant to me, if I'm being honest with you. The Kung Fu Corner is already

covered. Well, guys, I mean, they did, they did replace Iron Fist in the comics. There's no more, well, Danny Rain is still a lot. He's just not Iron Fist. And when they do that in the comics, that tends to mean that something is happening. And I would not be surprised if, like, Disney is like, hmm, maybe we should recast Iron Fist. He shouldn't be a white dude with blonde hair anymore. And that's how they're going to go about it.

find it very, very difficult to believe they're going to let Iron Fist die, but there's no way they're going to bring Finn Jones back. Do we even need to address Iron Fist? I think I, here's the thing. I think Kevin Feigey is very, very good at taking every element of the MCU and flipping it. What would you have said if they're like, oh, they're going to bring back Sir Ben Kingsley in Chong Chi? You would be like, what? But then it happens.

And everybody's like, oh, yeah. So I think with a little bit of time, they can reinsert Iron Fis. Because he's a cool character. They just kind of fucked it up the first time around. The buddy cop dynamic between him and Luke Cage for the ages. I genuinely love that. I think that that's great fun to be had with them. Give us a lethal weapon type TV show.

Yeah. But that's why I think he'll come back. That's why I think he'll come back. If they do bring all the defenders back, that's why I think he'll come back. I don't know if we need Luke Cage. Wow. I can be real with you. you like we talked about Luke Cage season one we really talked too much about Luke Cage season

two Luke Cage was cool it was all right I don't know if we I don't know if we look I personally I like to Luke Cage there was a little bit of cap surrounding Luke Cage a lot a lot of cap I like to Luke Cage there's a little bit of cap surrounding Luke Cage hey listen we had to do what we had to do man it was dire times hey hey Jomey it's different I'm with you baby it was Johnny, I'm with you. It's years later, we can talk about it now. Like, n-h-h-hast me then it's like, yo, Van, what do you think about Luke Cage?

It's better than the Godfather. What you think I think? You know what I mean? What you mean? Man, how's Luke Cage? It's great. Sometimes when I watch the show, I get the taste of brownies in my mouth.

What do you like? What do you mean? Like, the show is that good. But let's be real. The soprados, better than the wire. It's the best show that's ever been made. How about that? now we like we come away from the show now guess what it's okay

like not a diss at all because a lot of those are top-flag creatives that made that show top-flight creatives it's all right it's cool it's not whack at all it's good but there were there were runs on that show I remember vividly like when they had Luke Cage in the jail and it grows up the afro where I was like damn this is this is a tough one watch, bro. Yeah, it's like, look, he comes out of the thing.

He's like, the whole thing, you know, he keeps a little, I don't know if they did, Luke Cage again. I don't know if they cast my culture for it, you know. Like, it's, uh, you know, so, so, you know, it's like, I don't know if you need him. I don't know if you need Luke Cage. I would do some variants. I think, I think you could recast Luke Cage and Iron Fist and be fine.

I don't know if you need him. me, Jessica. Okay. All right. No, no, no, no, no. This is recast the whole thing. We got everybody back except for Charlie Cox. No, no, no, no, no.

That's the only person you bring back. We're keeping Kristen. You need, this is what you need. I'm just being for real, right? Because the MCU is the big leagues. Of all of these characters, the ones that get to graduate to the next level are John Barrettal's Punisher and the Daredevil cast. Agree.

Those are the ones that get to go to the next level. Jessica's not getting up there. No. She had a good season. It was good. You need to be more than good to make it to the league, Steve. You know what I mean? No.

We'll get there. We'll get there. I think they bring everybody back. I think they bring Rosario Dawson back. Jomey, of course you think they bring everybody back. She got too many jobs, bro. No, what do you mean? You come off the Asoka set.

Take the makeup off day right there. Now, she got her now. She ain't doing that shit. She is Soka. She got that. She got some other show I just saw popping. up. Oh, she got DMZ, the other comic book stuff. She's not

going, she's not, she's not, but she's already on the Disney lot. It's all it takes is, you got to walk from building to building. Jomey, I know why you're saying they need to bring everybody back because you, you want that age, it's a shield train, you're trying to get that. We don't get to that. We don't get to that. So let's go to the Punisher, John

Berndthall. Showed up in Daredevil season two and it's fucking fantastic. How about that? The best punisher. Yeah. Easily the best punisher. Out of the, out of the pantheon, of great punishers. Name them all. Name all the punishers, Steve.

Tom Jane and then the other guy. Dolph Lundgren. Don't hate on Dolf Lundgren. I'm not hating on Tom Jain. I love Tom Jain. By the way, that Thomas Jane Punisher movie is not that bad. It's not that bad.

It's not, it's not that bad. Tom's Jane gets a bad rap. I really like that guy. I was about to say, like, respect Thomas Jane. You'd even like no consideration. You're like, I like that. I'm just saying. It wasn't like it was a deep, deep bench to pull from.

This Punisher show, I'm going to be real. This was another one like Jessica Jones where I was just like, this is a little dark. Like this is, it's a bit much. It was a lot. It was intense. I was like, all right, guys, come on. Yeah, it was, it was dark. He's awesome as to punish, you know. Oh, he's great. He's phenomenal. But the season of TV, I was like, come. Can we get a little light in? I think this is an interesting question because we had, we had been Stenofrio come into the MCU with Hawkeye. I won't say that they like, you know, watered him down or anything by comparison.

Paris and to Daredevil because it's not like he's bashing people's heads in with car doors in the MCU now. But like, do you water down John Bernthal's punisher? Does that make sense? To bring it into the MCU proper, you have to you. My man was on one. He was raging. You like, come on. That growl, dog, if John Bernthal walks on the same set as Tom Holland, he's going to, ah, and Tom Holtz going to jump. He's like, whoa, who's this? Like, but he was part he embodied and encapsulated. the Punisher, all of the shady military past stuff worked.

It really worked. The Punisher was fantastic. Purniture Season 2, which some people didn't like as much, I liked it. I thought it was really good. I thought it was really good. I thought they got the villains right as well. So if we're looking at it right now, oh, excuse me, we skipped something. The Defender Show itself.

The Defender Show. Man. Okay, we're battling against the hand. Electra's going nuts. What do we think about the Defender Show? do the Defenders. Could you ever see a Defender's movie

for the biggest screen from the MCU? I gotta be honest here, guys. I gotta be, got laid down on the line. I like the Defenders series, man. All right, play.

Did. Steve played. I didn't, it's an opinion. It's an opinion. I didn't say it was good. I didn't say it was good. I think the problem,

at least for a lot of us, was the show centered on Iron Fist, who we had just finished his first season. We're like, we don't like this dude. Why is he like the guy? Why are we focusing on him? They really put all their chips on Iron Fist for some reason for like a quick second. Right?

Where they're like, bro, we don't like this dude. Like, why is he the key? Literally every single second that they're interacting, Luke, Jessica, Daredevil, they're like, bro, why is he here? We don't like this dude. He's annoying. All he doesn't complain, this rich white man is how to make it problems for us,

you know, which is fun for us to watch, but ultimately is like, I don't really, we don't like that it set our iron fist. That aside, the banter between them is fun. Seeing all those guys interact from different, you know, from different shows is always interesting seeing the worlds collide. It's not the worst thing we could have gotten, right? And it's okay.

It's not the best Marvel Netflix show. I'm not even close to saying that. But it was fun and enjoyable. And I think that counts for fun and enjoyable. All right. I agree. I remember the temperature when Defenders came out. Like, people were like, we waited for this.

It was. I thought it was cool. I'm sorry. They fumbled. They fumbled. Kalika! Yeah! Two weeks in a row!

Don't tell me Kalika likes the defenders. Kalika! Did you like Netflix show the Defenders? Actually, I did. Uh-huh. No way. Wow. Ain't no way.

Yeah. I did. So if I re-watch stuff on Netflix, then I do Daredevil Jessica Jones. Maybe Luke Cage, but then I jump right into the defenders. I skip over. We don't talk about Mr. Iron fist. We don't talk about Mr. Smith. Yeah, I don't like that.

But the defenders actually kind of like. Yeah. Yeah. So you were jumping. We were talking about whether. or not we enjoyed, I thought it was pretty cool. Charles hates it. And Steve too.

Steve hates it too. Yeah. So, Kalika's what I'm just saying. You know, you're so disappointed. You know what? Better yet? The next time you come over, Steve, we're watching the defenders. We're watching the defenders, Steve.

There we go. All right. All right. Thank you, babe. So we don't, but we don't think the defenders has a future, though. I don't think it might. It would have to be a soft rebuild. Because again, like, it's about reintroducing all of these characters,

not just, you know, the ones that we like, but the ones that, like, we got to like everybody before Marvel gets another team up under its belt again. Well, maybe that's how they reboot it, right? Could be. Maybe that you start with the defenders and then some of the happens with Iron Fist. All we need to do Iron Fist. I don't know, Luke Cage goes back to the crib.

You know, that's how you sunset some characters. That's how you bring some new ones in and then Daredevil continues to do Daredevil stuff. All right. So let's talk about this real quick. The family-friendly parents' television council has bashed Disney Plus for adding the Netflix shows to its subscriber service.

They have said, what comes next? Adding live striptees performances in Fantasyland at Disney World? They are upset. They don't think that the content here measures well with what Disney Plus's ethos is. Now, I have two gripes with this. Number one, gripe is a very real one. I know that I like to joke around,

but this is very serious to me. If you go on Disney Plus right now, you try to watch Fantasia. It says before Fantasia comes on, because we watch it at the house, you guys remember we were there. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Before Fantasia comes on,

it says that some of the images in Fantasia, racist shit, reflect the time going back in Disney's history rather than not have it or edit it out, we think we should leave it there for context and make sure that people know

that Disney is committed to changing and continuing to have the conversation about diversion and inclusion. Disney can admit that some of its content is problematic. And even though that content exists,

there's context to it. And it's not just Fantasia. It's fucking old Mickey Mouse shit, which is wild, by the way. Nuts. It's really nuts. Which is wild when you go back and watch it.

I'm talking about bones and noses and all kinds of shit. Look, I'm not about the wax poetic about it. It was fucking 1931 or five or whatever. I'm like, they shouldn't have been doing it then, but the reality is I'm not about to go back into a time machine and get mad. What I'm saying is, if that's on Disney Plus, I'm not going to get up in arms about Lou Cage and Jessica Jones fucking. And the reality is if you can talk people out of racism,

you can also talk them out of sex and violence. If you can disclaimer that, then you can disclaimer this. And I'm wondering if any of these parents' council groups for of America had any problems with the fact that there is unabashed racist shit on Disney and as it relates to there being sex and violence on there. I'm not making an excuse for Disney to make it a free-for-all on Disney Plus. I don't know. And fucking have HBO's real sex on there.

I'm not saying that, right? But what I am saying is that there's already content on there that is highly offensive to me. If I can read a disclaimer or disclaimer and get past it, then you guys should be able to as well. And the reality is there should be stuff there like this content to where we as adults can enjoy it. And you should be able to have an announcing any problem with you telling your kids to fucking stay away from it or making sure that they stay away from it. That's my whole thing on that. What does everybody else have to say? I don't even think it's a controversy worth like it doesn't make sense.

the whole reason that they're doing this doesn't make sense. I would take it even one step further. There is like the blatant racist shit. But also, if we go back, I don't care early Marvel movies, you want kids watching the first Iron Man? Like, yeah, it's like fun, but like, it's a different MCU. I saw your tweet. Then, like, they thrust in in Eternals.

Like, come on at a certain point, Disney Plus is already doing this shit. Like, you can't just have a kid watching everything. on Disney Plus. Like, let's not cap. Thor, uh, Thor cut Thanos his head off of his body and my nephews were fucking terrified. Right.

Really? Yeah. Like, they were, they were scared. They're like, what happened? It was like,

he's dead. What you mean what happened? Are they teaching how at school? Like, his head is off of his neck. His body's brain can get any more oxygen. Sover. Like,

I like how you broke it down medically for them. No, Sometimes when they do stuff like that, I get like, yo, are you all with him? Are you there? He's dead. They cut his head off. Like, so don't ask me,

Uncle Van, what happened? The Thanos? Tor killed him. He's dead. All right. So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff like that. And I think for Disney Plus to grow, because we're talking about moon night, right?

And what kind of moon night would we have liked to have gotten? We would have liked to have gotten a moon night that's actually closer to the John Bernthal Punisher. And I'm pretty sure they're going to try to split that baby. But at some point, you know, the MCU is going to have to get a little bit more. You know what I'm saying? Eventually Deadpool's going to come. And that's probably going to get it already.

That's weird. Wow, Jomey. Eventually, if he keeps going, he will. Can we move on? I'm so tired right now. I feel for Jomey. I'm so tired of this year. Well, here's the thing, Charles.

Come on. And I'm glad you said that, Charles, because, you know, before we get into the next part of the thing, I wanted to, we left a show out that's also coming back to Disney Plus. God's sake. Jeez. AIDS is a shield. Go ahead.

Go ahead. It's coming back to the pluse. And I just, you know, I just want to have some respect for the originator, the OG, the first of foremost, the alpha. Okay, we wouldn't be here. Let's be honest. We would not be here if it was not for Agen's a Shield. Oh, we're here in spite of Agents of Shields if we're going to keep a buck.

You're talking about Jessica Jones, talking about Daredevil. Aces of Shield paved the way, baby. And I know y'all want to disrespect. I know y'all want to clown me because of my, you know, Twitter thread. But it's cool. I ride hard for what I love. All right. I have some respect.

Shout out to all the Agen's of Sheld homies out there. You know, shout out Nikki. You know what I'm saying? shout out, Mee Call, you know what I'm saying? Mekal. You can name the agents of Fields. No, these are my homies. No, these are my homies.

You know what I'm saying? How many episodes of Agen's Shield were there? Oh, like 100 and change. Oh, it made it to 100 episodes? Yeah. That was the whole point. Dog, that was... What?

What was the whole point? I was... The problem with my... The reason the whole Twitter threat happened was because it was the 100th episode of Agen's of Shield. And I was like, I'm not missing the 100th episode. Why would I miss the 100 episodes?

This is my life. This is everything. You didn't have a DVR, damn. I was in college? No. Okay. So A's, Shield is coming. Jami, I'm going to ask you a real question.

136 episodes, by the way. That's a legitimate television show, guys. Yes. Y'all just hate it. They just want to throw it away. There are many legitimate television shows by that metric, but let's, all right. 136 episodes? Yes.

It's a lot. That's a legitimate, there are not a lot of legitimate television shows by that metric. 136 episodes? That's a, that's, that's a, that's a successful show by any metric. I mean, seriously, like, by any. All right. By that metric, Van, are you going to watch Agency Shield? Fuck, no.

But what I'll tell you, but, but I would like to, I would like Jomey to explain to people in a serious way, if you can, what we missed by missing Agent's Shield, because I've never seen one episode. I don't want to take up too much of your time because I could be here all day. But long story short, you missed, you know, a group of super talented individuals having to scrounge together, you know, success stories by the seat of their parents. Think about it. The show was titled Ages of Shield. It comes out in fall 2013. By April 2014, Shield doesn't exist anymore, canonically in the MCU.

And so for six and one third of a season, they're just scrounging by, right? Going, making, telling incredible stories, LMDs, Ghost Rider, Agents of Hydra. And that's just one season of stories. I just named for you right there. It takes a detour that you don't see it coming because of their premise is just thrown out the window by Marvel. and so you fall in love with these characters and you watch them grow and change and it's just it's honestly great

and I would encourage everybody to give it a shot right it's probably better a binge because there was a point in the series watching it live I watched every episode live by the way every single episode live that was a point where

there were four episodes that came out in three months it was that like why I have no idea right? I'm looking at it right now. One episode came out

November 26th, 2013. The next one came out December 10th, 2013. The next one came out January 7th, 2014. They had another one the next week, January 14th, 2014. And then the next episode was February 4th, 2014.

Like, I was down horrendous for this television show. But it all came together. It all came together. It all came together. So just show some respect. Let's all I ask. So this is what we're going to do.

It's time for the Midnight Massacre Tournament of Champions. Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. All right. We collectively must come up with our 16-seat tournament of street-level heroes to compete in trial by combat. Each hero must primarily operate at street-level, meaning, meaning primarily one city or one neighborhood. no intergalactic defenders. There are going to be some characters that are controversial by that definition.

I'm telling you right now. I can think of one. I think that we can open this for debate. I think this will be fine. Once we come up with the seats, we'll each go through and pick our winners of each round. One versus 16, two versus 15, etc. We'll argue, yell at each other,

curse at one another, be inappropriate. And then you, the listeners, get a chance to participate, check out the bracket on social to pick your picks. Okay, let's get it. All right, so I made a short list here of just like 16 off the top of my head that I could think of. If we want to run down, what are the must ads from this list here? I have Batman. I have Spider-Man.

I'm guessing those are easy ads to the list. All right. If we're talking about, oh, you're going to run through the list. Right. Batman, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Shang-Chi, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Punisher, Moon Knight, Nightwing, Barbara Gordon, death stroke, static shock, Green Arrow,

Hawkeye, Jessica Jones, Catwoman. How could Robin not be on this list? I was thinking of a Nightwing. I would argue, Nightwing. Nightwing's already on the list. Nightwing's already on the list. I think Damian Wayne should be on the list.

Damien Wayne. Hey, Night Mob, producer Steve here. So we took quite a bit of time arguing about the seating, where people go, high or lower. It took quite a long time.

So I'm going to give you guys the best hits of us arguing over the rankings through the magic of editing. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How do we have Punisher so low? Oh, fuck. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

We got to. This is tough. This is hard. Wait a second. All right. So look, so look, you got to slide Punisher at 4 because he's over Destroke to me. Punisher over a death stroke?

I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. Is Punisher in top 10, though? Putisher is the top 10. He probably below Punisher. Death stroke is tight, but y'all, y'all cannot have Deathstroke over the Punisher. I can, and I am right now.

I'm doing it. I said that. Bruh, I'm not, bro. Desstroke is over a Punisher. I'm going to be honest with you. Deathstroke is not even a, I love Deathstroke. And if we're just talking about being able to fight, then yeah.

But as a character, you cannot have Deathstroke over the Punisher on this. Come on, bro. The Punisher is a comic staple. Deathstroke is a Batman villain. Punisher number four and then... Did do Deathstroke. Because really, y'all hanging on a lot of motherfuckers, man.

Well, we have 16 spots. Just get ready for the fact that when we list these seeds and Shankshi is a 12 seed that just it's kind of busted. No, obviously going to be real for you.

When we list this and Shanks'i is a 12 seed, fucking Twitter's going to go nuts, bro they are. Then where do you slot him? I would slot him. We put, we put Catwoman above Shonchy. No, you put Catwoman that high. I didn't put Catwoman that high.

Yeah, yeah, it was you put that one, wait, because I'm also considering the lore of the characters. Let's go back. So this is straight up who's fighting and who's winning. Forget about it. Yeah. Okay, I still put the Punisher of a Destrope. That's fine.

That's okay. Then Catwoman used to be a six. scene seed. Cat woman got to come. Kyle will come way down. She's got to come way down. Luke Caj will whoop all of these motherfuckers. He got super strength.

By the way, a couple of these guys are powered, which to be honest with you, that's fine. Okay. We're going to get into that. And here's the thing. When we get to the bracket, these will be

personal selections from that point. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. In a straight up fight, who's winning out of Luke Cage and Black Widow? Luke Caj will break her arms, bro. Like, like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, what, what can the punisher, even what, what can the punisher, even what can the Punisher, what can't do to Luke Cage? Can put him in some stuff? No, he can't, bro. He can't. Lou Cage's skin is bulletproof, bro. The Punisher can't do nothing to Lou Cage, bro. He's, like, like, the.

So you're saying we had to get rid of Luke Cage? You got his OP? No, what I'm saying is if I'm just by the, if the. if the Punisher had a rocket launcher and he shot it in Luke Cage's head, right? He would knock Luke Cage out and he still wouldn't die. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I'm going to be real with you, bro.

Also, I just want everybody to know, like, no matter what happens, if you look at the bracket and you're like, wow, why is somebody, this is all Steve's fault. So get him. That's fine. Going to his mentions. Records are set.

Mm-hmm. All right, let's read down these first few matches. here. Okay, so your 1-16 is Batman Catwoman. Your 9-8 is Black Widow Iron Fist. The 5 and the 12 is Shang-She versus Luke Cage. Your 13 is Moon Knight Punisher. Very easy, very interesting 13-4 matchup. Your number three is Daredevil and Electra. Wow. Classic. We've done Batman and Catwoman and DaredeWins in the

end. Your 11 is Hawkeye versus Jessica Jones, R.I.P. the Hawkeye. your 17 your 17 is death stroke and nightwing very interesting and your 152

is Damian Wayne and Spider that's tough that's such an annoying fight okay you guys let's have it

all right I think from top to bottom Batman beats Catwoman for me Batman I mean Batman versus Catwoman is easy out

like that Guys, let's talk about this for a second. You're telling me that Batman might not fold off Catwoman? He could. I mean, we just saw the Batman. He didn't fold, so. You know what I'm saying?

No, but like, you know what I'm saying? Like, if Catwin really put it on him, you know, Batman might not be like, hey. No. Bruce Wayne's ready for anything. I don't know, but like- He's got prep time, Joe. He's got prep time.

He's got prep time. I'm going Batman. We're giving him Batman. Yeah, we're going to Batman. Yeah, it's Batman. Come on. I'm going Batman for sure. Of course.

It's the toughest of hill battle for Catwoman, but she's scrappy, but she's not going to be able to survive. All right. Black Widow versus Iron Fist. Easy. That's Iron Fist. Iron Fist got Blackwood.

I'm going to be honest with you. I think, I think, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going Black Widow. You can't do it. You just can't do it. Here's why the fist.

Here's one thing. Like, yes, I agree to if he didn't have the fist. But like, what is Black Widow going to do with the Iron Fist? Like, one punch, it's done. It's done. Yeah. I don't see it. I don't see it from Blackwood.

I love me. Some Natasha's roaming off. Love Black Widow. It's just not going to happen. It's just not going to happen with the fist. It's just not. This is a first round upset. Or not an upset.

And here, Van, you're the person who's just like, dog, if they have powers, they're winning. Like, what is black? Tell me what Black Widow is going to do against Iron Fis. I mean, the Chi is tough. Well, how does, how does she overcome? how does Black Widow overcome that? I think probably, you know what? Also, probably just all martial arts.

He probably still would kick her ass, right? Because he's like an amazing martial art. Damn, it's tough. It just wouldn't have it. It just wouldn't have it. I don't say it happened. All right. Ironfish is through.

Luke Cage versus Batman. All right. It's not even wasting time. Okay. What are our picks for Shang Chi versus Luke Cage? That's Luke Cage. That's Luke Cage. Yeah, I got Luke Cage.

I got Luke Cage and four. What is Shang-Chi going to do against Unbreakable skin. Nothing. You know, smack them. So, Shankshi is going to win this fight. Ouch.

Number one, he's able to use mystical moves and forces with his Kung Fu. He can turn his limbs into blades, harness, classical elements, all kinds of things, right? Plus, if we're using the Shang Shi version from the MCU,

then he has the 10 rings. And if we're going to use that Shang Shi with the 10 rings our boy Luke Cage got some bad fucking seating he got seated high because he won his conference

and if we're going to use 10 rings Shang Shi along with all of the martial arts I think he could be Luke Cage I don't think he has the 10 rings he has to have the 10 rings He doesn't have the 10 rings and the legend of the 10 rings He has 10 rings he has 10 rings all right then I got to change it up Shang Chi's washing

If you're giving him the 10 rings, then yeah, but... Jesus Christ, that's cheating. It is cheating. It's also cheating to have impenetrable skin. But it didn't stop Luke Cage from getting jiggy. Yeah, but that's passive. That's a passive. That's a passive power.

Or having super strength, that's pretty passive, too. Knocking a head off his shoulders. Is that... All right. So where else are we going? All right. Next up, we got Moonwright versus Punisher. like this matchup. This is the best matchup

of the first round. Moon Knight Punisher. I know who I'm going with. This is a profanity-laced fight. So Punisher got all of his weapons, right? Punisher got all of his weapons. Moon Knight got all of his shit. I'm going Punisher. What the fuck what Moon Night going to do

when he pulls out that AK, that Draco? Nothing. I'm going Moon Knight. I got the guy who's rocking with costume, man. If that moon is full, your pack is full. He got some borerangs. What is a boorang?

I'm going to be real with you. I'm going with Boob Night. He's got the power of God on anime on his side. I'm going with Moon Night, man. He's really disrespectful with a punisher. This is really disrespectful. All right. This is the matchup of,

this is a sexy matchup now. Daredevil and Electra. Daredevil. Daredevil in four. Yeah. Yeah. We've seen it before. All right.

Hawkeye and Jessica Jones. All right. Come on. Why is this even here? This makes me mad. Hawkeye is packed up. Jessica Jones. Here's the thing.

Hawkeye is probably dead. Like this may be a non-lethal tournament, but like Hawkeyes probably actually dead. No, this is like she's actually like punching a hole through his chest. Yeah. That's a fatality. That's a fatality.

Deathstroke versus Nightwing, the next matchup. Here's my thing. The reason I'm going to go with Nightwing is Deathstroke was struggling against teenagers. What is he going to do against a full grown night way? It's got to be Nightwing. Hey, that boy, that boy,

Nightwing. when he was robin. He was having sleepless nights because of that man, Deathstroke. He was going through it. I got Nightwing as well, but Destruck was in his bag when he was tormenting nightwing. Let's not forget.

This next matchup is my favorite. It's the accidental battle of the children. Spider-Man versus Damien Wayne. All right, hear me out. Hear me out. I'm not saying Damian Wayne would win. He's tough. He'd put some numbers up. He'd put some numbers up. This would be tough.

You make no sense, Charles. how do I make no sense? Explain yourself, man. Damien Wayne is getting his fucking head kicked in. Like what are you like? It makes zero sense, bro.

Peter would play around. Peter's like, what am I going to do with this little kid? Like, get him out of a ring. Taming Wayne's going to take a samurai sword and like cut his Achilles heel. be like, what the fuck is happening? I'm not saying he was going to win.

Does it kill him? You make no sense, bro. That's the funniest thing I ever heard. Damien will cut off one of one of Spider-Man's arms because he wasn't paying attention. Spider-Man was still winning. David-Wain is done, bro.

Is Spider-Man tried, like, at all? He would kill Davey-D-B-Wain. But that's what I'm saying. Spider-Man would be playing around a little too much and he'd get a little too cute. Spider-Man is still winning. it just want to be easy. Spider-Man moves on to the second round.

Now, now, look, here's an important thing. Consider in the second round how tough the first round fights would be. Very tough. So what I'm saying is that for some people, they're going to breeze, like Batman is going to breeze into the second round, right? But for others, like Moon Knight and Punisher,

that fight is going to take a lot out of Moonnight. I mean, in this scenario, like, they got a day's rest. They got, like, you know, they're fresh again. Again. Still. Still. They had a night in the bathtub tank. Sure. Okay. Who's in the second round now? I mean, this is where we split off now because it's personal choices.

So I have Batman versus Black Widow. I think Batman's winning. Yes, of course. Oh, yeah, Batman. Batman's winning. What's that next matchup for you guys look like? I got Batman versus Iron Fist. I'm sorry, Danny Rand, but he only got the harder for it. Batman cleaning you up. I had Batman versus Iron Fist as well. Batman is beating Iron Fist even though it's a much closer fight than people think

that it is. It's a close fight. It's a close fight. Danny going to put up some numbers, but I got the Cape Cusader on this one. All right, so the second one is... Second matchup for me is Shang Chi versus Moon Knight. Shankshi got Moon Night. I would agree. Shangxi over Moon Night. Everybody?

I would agree. I still had I had Luke Cage I had Luke Cage versus versus Punisher I'm going to Luke Cage Luke Cage is killing Punisher

This is the worst matchup for Punisher in this whole It's a bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Badger Guns I have Sean Chee versus Moon Knight

Moon Knight Moon Knight can eat a lot of punches but I got Sean Chee Sean Chee going with the 10 rings Yeah it's just not there for him Right Next matches for me

Are Daredevil versus Jessica of Jones. Yeah, I got that too. Yeah, I think we all have that. I got it too. Guess what? He's getting his ass kicked. How about that? Ooh. Ugh.

That's tough. I'm going Daredevil. I'm going Daredevil. I'm going Daredevil. Y'all are so full of shit. Like, bro, like y'all is so full of shit. No, I's Daredevil. He can't beat her. Brough.

This is so fucked. Daredouble's going to hit some pressure points and it's going to be done. So we're talking about Jessica Jones from the show, right? Yeah. We're not talking about Jessica Jones from the comics who could fly around and stuff. And guess what? She still can't fuck with her. Can't fuck with her.

It's my bracket. It's Daredevil. It's Daredevil. All right. All right. Jessica Jones could. She was lifting cars on the Netflix show. I see Daredevil do it like that.

Ah. he can take a beating but Jessica Jones they have that hall hallway scene y'all are doing him dirty walk out of here it's true

Jessica Jones over there devil night wing it's night wing versus Spider-Man all right come on this ain't you fair like keep it keep it moving it's tough

Spider-Man just spider man just be in the here's the problem here's the problem what's going to happen here's the problem

that's going to happen all roads will lead back to our argument can Spider-Man beat Batman well we don't know yet We don't know. We don't know.

We don't know. Let's see how we're going. We'll see. All right. So what's the next matchup for you guys? I got Batman versus Luke Cage. Okay. I have Batman versus Shang-she.

I also have Batman versus Shang-she. Batman versus Shang-Chi. How close of a fight is this with Shang-chi and Batman? I think it's again. There's a close fight. Yeah. Shang-she with the 10 rings.

Can't be that close. Batman is going to be that close. It can't be that close. Sean she with the 10 rings is going to be Batman, bro. Wait, guys, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's what it is. Batman versus Shangxi with the 10th. Nah. Nah, this is not going to happen.

Does Batman, wait, wait, wait, does Batman have prep time? Yeah, he has prep time. Okay, okay, okay, Batman has prep time. He wins. Batman still wins. We said in the beginning, Batman has prep time. Batman has prep time. Batman's got a day.

What? Batman's got a day of prep time. Batman has seen Chong Chi and how he uses the rings. He has prep time. I'm going with Batman. Oh my God. I just don't. I don't understand.

I would love somebody to explain to me how you would stop. To tell you would stop the rings. Explain to me how you would stop the rings. I don't have to explain it to you. The back computer does. Probably some sort of like energy containment field that like Bruce can engineer. Guess what? Guess what?

with prep time it's a farce I'm going to ask with you with prep time with prep time it's a farce Sean Shigo come out there looking so dumb

like with prep time with prep time he was about to kill Superman until he realized their mama had the same name Oh my goodness with prep time it's a farce it's not even a real fight with prep time with prep time. Now, if they, Batman could probably hang in there with no prep time. With prep time,

it's a farce, bro. It's a forest, Charles. I'm sorry. No, I, I, I, I, I said Batman. I'm the guy with the problem. I don't understand how Batman when he got to rings of his chest. I just don't see it. Like, that's the bottom line. I don't, I don't see it. Because I think our, our second one ones were different. I got Daredevil versus Spider-Man. So do I. And I'm, and I'm sorry, but it's such an easy fight for Spider-Man. I think, like, the fuck is Darren I'm going to do. The fuck is Darren-O-Nove going to do? I regret having to play out Daredevil like that, but yeah, it's probably...

I got Spider-Man versus Jessica Jones, and Spider-Man wins. Yeah, me too. Right, well, here we are again. How close is it? It's not super close. Because he, because... It's because... Because...

Because... It's not super close because Spider-Man is probably as strong as Jessica Jones, if not close to it. And the agility and all of that stuff. Spider-Sense. Yeah. Wet fluid. Spiresets don't really. Yeah, he's just better.

Yeah. All right. So I think we all, do we all have the same except for Joe? All roads lead back to. No, no. I, if we're giving Batman prep time, he can beat Sean Chi because. Fuck out of here. No, Jomey, don't jump on the bandwagon.

Don't jump on the Bat bandwagon. Do you believe it or no? Do you truly believe it? Stand by your boy. Stand by Shang Chi. I don't believe it, actually. I really don't believe it. I got Sean Chy.

Put them up there. Put them up there. I got Sean Chy versus Spider-Man. So me, Charles, and Van, all have the Batman versus Spider-Man showdown. I think that we've had that conversation. We could have that in brief again, but I'm genuinely curious. Batman has prep time. It's Batman.

Shog-Chi versus Spider-Man. I want to hear this out. Just like off the top. my head. I got to rock with my boy. I got to go with Spidey. With the 10 rings, really? With the 10 rings. Yeah. 10 rings are very

powerful. Like, the 10 rings. Dog, the 10 rings were, like, blasting through rocking shit. Like, what is Spider-Man going to do with that? Spider-Man is, see a thing with Spider-Man. Spider-Man has no give-up. Right? Spider-Man,

when the Spider-Man knows, like, I got to raise my level, he raised his level. You know what I'm saying? I don't think, see, the rings are not intellectual in the sense of like, Sean Chi would still need to have to hit Spider-Man. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying he won't hit him, right? But he would still need to put a hurt on Spider-Man. Spider-Man could take a beating.

I don't think Sean Chi could take the same beating the Spider-Man could take. You know what I'm saying? He goes, but Sean Chi can't channel his Chi and all of that stuff to take hits and to do all kinds of crazy shit. Very true. And also, we have to be real. Like, Shang-Chi and Peter are about the same age. Peter started having his

spider powers as a teenager Sean Chi's been a deadly weapon since the day he was born. Not MCU. I mean, he was born. Sean Chi. This is a kid,

at the very least. The day he was born, he's like, he was a baby. All right, I'm sorry. He was, he was fine.

That's actually Damian Wayne if we're being real for that. No, I don't go. Don't, I heard y'all talking shit about Damian. All right? I mean,

yeah, I'll keep that shit about David. So, who are you going with? I'm going with Spider-Man. Spider-Man. Spider-Man takes it. Spiderman takes it.

Okay, cool. And I had, what did I have in that situation? I had... Batman, Spider-Man. What I have? Batman for Spider-Man. Batman versus Spider-Man. Prep-time?

Jesus Christ. Yeah. But it's the only thing. It's the old, like, oh, prep time, prep time, bad, prep time, pet time. Like, bro. So this is the prep time truth or bracket is what we are. It's so, it's so dumb.

Here's my thing. And this is the problem. if he can be Superman with prep time, I just can't say that he can't be Spider-Man with prep time. And here's my... No, hold on, hold on, hold on. No prep time. No prep time.

Zero prep time. It's easily Spider-Man. Zero prep time. Are you talking like no prep time as in sneak attack or like they meet in the ring? I am Batman. I am Spider-Man. I'm talking about prep time, dude. Like Batman's...

Batman's been grinding tape for weeks on Spider-Man. He's been looking at all the footage, taking notes. He got a breakdown of his DNA. You got a day worth of tape time for both. That's enough. That's all he needs. That's all he needs. One night of tape.

That's all he needs. God, so annoying, bro. All right, all right. That's enough. That's enough. That's enough. I got to be honest with you, though. I got to be honest with you though.

I just got to take Spider-Man. What's your heart? That's really the thing here. What is your heart say? Batman is winning. Y'all are fake. Your heart says Batman. I can never front on Batman, ever.

He's the greatest of all time. That's just not how it's going to go down. You all talking about with Ron James, the greatest of all time. Fuck out of here. Batman forever. Yeah. Okay.

I got spot. I gotta go Spider-Man now. All right. I'm fucking, I'm going Batman, brother. God. Yeah. Oh, my God. No, bro.

I'm in, I would ride with Batman too long. love Spider-Man, bro. But I just thought about Tom Holland. He's losing, bro. He's like, bro, bro. All right. All right. Is Garfield losing? I don't know. But Tom Holland is losing the Batman or prep time. Vulture was fucking him up, bro.

Is Garfield losing to Christian Bale? That's a good one. I'm going with Batman now. I'm going with Batman. Okay. So where are we at now? Steve, what do you got? What was your picture? I've got Spider-Man. man you all some wait wait wait wait wait wait

you got some weedies for real no I can't I gotta go Batman I got to go Batman oh my way and by the way will you put the brackets put parentheses with preptime great

look people are going to listen to the podcast they're gonna be mad some people were like yeah Batman prep time blah da da people were like bro why are you all right for bandbent so hard everybody has prep time

but yeah But here's the thing. Batman, like, everybody else's prep time. I mean, Batman's prep time. Come on. It's not the same thing. Yesterday's prep time. It's not today's prep time.

Yo, you ride for Batman so hard. Why? For why? Because he got prep time. That's right. That's the latest superpower I've ever heard. You give a man a study room? He's like, ah, he's the greatest superhero we've ever seen.

Shut up. The only reason Superman don't kill that man immediately is because it's not in Superman's DNA. That's not true. You know what? why Superman don't kill him? Why? Because of prep time. That's what?

Oh my God. This is, I'm sick of this. Prep time. We might put this up there with on the list with mutants and Mephisto, bro. I'm so sick of here. We're banning prep time.

Jesus Christ. Is that our last fight? That's our last fight. That's it. That's the bracket. Batman wins, baby. All the weenies picked Batman because they have no spine.

God damn, Jomey. I'm so, like, it knows. situation. Tell me, chill. But think about it. We were here with Luke Cage. Like, oh, well, Luke Cage would clear up sozo because he has powers.

Look at this. Look at my friend Rob over at Comics Explain, which I love Rob at Comics Explained, okay? Shout out to Rob over at Comics Explained. He does this amazing, amazing, amazing video series called Beyond Omega Level. Okay? And just look who he has there. Beyond Omega level, Batman. Because it says it right here.

What we actually see from this is that Batman is smart enough to prepare for almost every possibility. And given enough time, he'll also be able to acquire every skill he needs to win a fight. Batman. We should call him Prep Man. Because he's ready. Just a smart guy with the peak of human physicality. But God forbid, you know, a God. Like, when we had Thorne this bracket,

y'all would still pick Batman. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand what's going to your own brains. Right? Like, we'd be like Hulk or Batman. Well, if we gave Batman 15 minutes, shut up, bro. It's not going down like that.

Hulk might be the one where it's just like a little too much. Hulk might do that. Hulk is the easiest one to beat with prep time. Oh, with prep time. Yeah, Batman is winning. Like Hulk. Hulk is like a big chemical steroid gamma ray free. Batman going to find some kind of way to

bro Batman versus the Hulk with prep time he will have Bruce Banner doing Robert's homework I'm just I'm convinced that this is all a gag you guys are just you know It's not a gag You know

It's prep time And that's what it is I want the name of this podcast Right now to be prep time Like this podcast Batman's prep time And I want to talk to somebody I want to talk to someone

A higher up I want to talk to to a Batman writer. We should get a Batman writer on here and we should do a deep dive exploration on the prep time of Batman and how it could work. I love it. All right, but that's it. So we're going to be posting this starter bracket

for everybody to put in their picks and we'd like to see what you guys have for us. If you come to the same conclusion as us. Everybody's going to come everybody's going to pick Batman because he has prep time. You guys gave him prep time. That's part of his power say. Batman.

That's part of his power stage. That's such a list. That's bottom five, bottom two power. It's not even, it's not too. It's not innovative. It's not interesting. It's lame. It's the most innovative.

No, no. Like, it's cool when he's like smart. Like really like, Batman is a super smart individual. You're like, nah, man, you got to give that guy time. Because without it, he would get clapped repeatedly. He would be out of pocket. He would be the worst superhero on this list.

But nah, man, if he give him a day, get him some tape, some film, you know. He's going to be in the grinding, like Frank Vogel in the fucking locker room and stuff. I like Frank Vogel. I like Frank Vogel. Batman wakes up on a Monday and he takes all of his food. He puts in these little things.

Little Tupperware? Little Tupperware? Yeah. This little salmon is rice. He got his salmon and rice, the broccoli. Broccoli all in the little Tupperware. He said, but you know what else he does that for? Superheroes.

If you go to the back cave right now, his little Tupperware's Superman. Wonder Woman, Spider-Man. I cannot believe that you guys give him prep time. This is the opposite end of prep time. He's always prepared for snacks. Always prepared for snacks. All right, that's a wrap, guys.

I'm sure to tune in next Wednesday for the Ringer versus Awards show. The Verses. The Midnight Boys will return. But until we do, I want you guys to make sure you give a lot of love to the people that make this podcast possible are producers. Steve Allman, Joy, the Cuddly Sacifist, who has a big task on his hands editing this. Jomi, the Batman Hader at Dinarah.

Hashtack Free Jomey on social media. And of course, additional production by Arjuma Ramgapal. Charles, take us out. Daredevil and the Defenders have returned. Gonna be honest, this podcast got out of line. But Batman whooping at ass with a little bit of prep time. It was about to be some Waffle fries of the number one

fast food item level of of heat you're about to get. Waffle fries is a number one fast food item. Oh, that is a Theringer.com, man. Wait, what? Right, that was way back in the day. That was way back in the day.

Y'all don't remember that. Waffle fries. The wrigger.com. Who said that? Waffle fries. A great website. If I got a real takeoff, I think every version of French fries

are terrible except OG. Whoa. Sweet potato fries are fucking trash. Okay, that's right. That's correct. That's a good thing. Waffle fries. Sweet potato fries. Hmm? Super potato fries very, very, very 2002. Yeah. It's not it. It's not it. Like, name me a good fry. Like, name me a good fry that's not an O.G. Frye. Yeah. That's, like a McDonald's fry. That's, like a shoot. A regular fry. Like a usual. Like just a regular fry. Like just. Crinkle cut. Crinkle cut. Oh, crinkle. What are we in kindergarten? Fuck out of year. Season fries.

That's not different That's just a seasoning That's different It's got a different texture You a punk ass bitch Tater tots hit Tater tots aren't French fries Tater tots or Tater tots

It's a whole different thing All right, Joe me Shut up Charles No no no wait No okay So you don't like steak Steak cut No

I can't do that Those can be hit a miss Because big ass chunk of potato Yeah Like you To actually have like a good steak fry Is very very difficult What about?

But potato wedges. No, fuck, no. Too much potato. Yeah. Maybe. You may as well have a baked potato. That's what I'm saying at that point. Like a French fry is like you need the perfect ratio.

But here's the thing. You pull up to the Rouse. Right? You get some chicken. You get some potato wedges? You immediately leave because you're joie. Oh! Actually, no, I'm fucking dumb.

Curly fries are amazing. I'm actually dumb. Curly fries are great. Yeah, curly fries are great. Yeah. Don't you love it to get a curly fries? fry in your regular fry? Come on, they do that on purpose. That's God giving you a little kiss. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy?

It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people, real care, real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting of cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt, keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by Real California Farm Families.