The Ringer-Verse - Mal's Summer Hype Mailbag

Episode Date: May 11, 2021

The Ringer's Chris Ryan joins Mal for this special mailbag episode answering your fandom questions for the summer and beyond. They weigh in on the future of Disney+'s 'Bad Batch' (05:19), the upcoming season of 'Stranger Things' (39:15), and A24's 'The Green Knight' (63:37). Later Miles Surrey joins to talk about 'Venom: Let There Be Carnage' (78:34). Host: Mallory Rubin Guest: Chris Ryan, Jomi Adeniran, Miles Surrey, Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal and TD St. Matthew-Daniel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Watch with her. What is this? That would be dead. And welcome into the Ringerverse. Here on the Ringer podcast network, I am Mallory Rubin, co-host of Binge Mode, head of editorial here at the Ringer. And it is my absolute delight to invite you not only to the windmill I've been seeing in my mind, but to join us on this new podcast feed for Star Wars. for Marvel, and more, all things nerd culture and fandom.

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investments. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at vandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Joining me today. Fresh off a stopover on salukamai. It's Ringer editorial director. Co-host of The Watch, blog father, and author of The Sea is Dope.

Yeah. Also my fellow enhanced clone. Chris Ryan. Welcome into the Ringerverse. Hey, buddy. How are you? Thank you for having me. I'm so glad that I was, I finally passed the purity test of fandom to get into this podcast, you know? It's, it's been one of my favorite listens. No, you know what? I love this pod. So I'm so happy to be here. What's going on? Chris, it's a delight to have you here. It's wonderful to be here with you to celebrate content, to celebrate summer, to celebrate hype, so many of the things that we love. You know, got some stuff. plan for today. If at any point you want to redirect and talk about top chef, talk about the Delco accents at Merri of Easttown. You got it, hon. Preview the NBA finals. You just let me know. You know that accent. It's a cousin of the Baltimore accent. You bring the Philly accent out in me when I see you. I'm like, yo, Mal, what's going on,

hon? Going down to the ocean, hon. You want to go see the ewes? It's a sister language. The Delco and the Balmer. Yeah. Boy, Joe Me looks disturbed. So, Chris, there's so much content, much like there are so many accents in the multiverse. And so much in this sector already right now, so much just around the bend of hyperspace on our next jump. So today, we're going to run through a bunch of it,

a bunch of the stuff that's already happening, a bunch of the stuff that's on the horizon exciting us. We're going to do a summer hype mailback. We're going to hear for the people. Before we dive into the question, so a couple quick reminders for everyone. First, of course, the Midnight Boys. Van and Charles will be with you this Friday

to chat about season one of Jupiter's legacy. Next, follow us. If you're not following us already, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram at Ringarverse. Join the Facebook group for the Ring Reverse. Great place to submit questions for the next mailbag. Follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And of course, your friendly neighborhood spoiler warning.

Today's pod is going to feature plot details from all sorts of things, honestly. It's difficult to give a spoiler warning. So this is just sort of a blanket spoiler warning. Proceed with caution. And when you hear a question about a certain topic, assume that we will be talking about topics from that thing. Star Wars A Bad Batch, Jupiter's Legacy. And of course, then some speculation warnings as well.

You know, we don't actually know anything about Loki or Black Widow or Venom. but we're going to talk about how excited we are for all those things. In fact, the number one Venom super fan in the entire known universe, Miles Surrey. We'll be joining us for a few minutes later today to talk about the new Venom trailer. A lot of stuff coming. Proceed accordingly. Let's dive right in, Chris. Let's do it. I will be spoiling HBO's Lakers show, by the way.

I know how that ends. How about the casting? It's the most exciting thing in media right now is reading casting. announcing announcements from the Lakers show and reading casting announcements from Succession. Succession, season three. Yeah, exactly. Just basically reading what Adrian Brody is up to at any given moment. What a time for Ringer TV Slack, really, really just remarkable. Okay.

Wouldn't be a mailbag here on the Ringerverse without the Lord of the Memes himself. Jomey Adon. Jomey. Hello! I'm happy to finally be on a podcast with Chris Ryan. is my guy and we both have a passionate hatred of Andre Drummond's

basketball skills. So this is great. I'm just honestly happy to be here. You know, I told Chris earlier if he wants to talk about mayor, if he wants to talk about Top Chef, go for it if you guys want to just do a mash-up question

about the 76ers. And Chris, what's another show that you're loving right now? The Bureau. The Bureau. Go for it. You know, let the content guide you. Let's get to our first question.

This is from KD7 on Facebook. Loved how they were incorporated into the opening episode. But I'd personally be okay with not seeing any more Jedi for the rest of the season of Bad Batch. What do you think? Also, do you think Omega is a version of a force-sensitive clone that Palpatine's looking for? Okay.

Great question. and I'm going to respond by asking Chris a question. Sure. Chris, do you know who Omega is? Do you know what the bad batch is? I know what the bad batches. On an Omega, unfortunately, a computer says no. But I am interested in this question

because I've been in the game long enough to be able to piece these things together. And I think what the questioner is asking essentially is like, are there elements of shows, whether it's Jedi in Star Wars and the Star Wars spinoffs in the Star Wars universe, or whether it's, say, like, Dragons in Game of Thrones, where you're like, I know I want it, but it's up to you guys to calibrate when I get it.

And how much is too much and when is too soon? Right. Since you have not watched Star Wars the Bad Batch yet, which is only two episodes in, first episode was the mega episode, second episode, regular length. We now know that there are going to be 16 total. episodes, so you got plenty of time to opt-in, Chris, if you'd like to. I have a flight coming up.

I'll jam it out right when I hop on. Wonderful. No better flight companion than Disney Plus, really. Would knowing that the Jedi were going to play a meaningful role or at least an occasional role in the bad batch make you more or less likely to opt in? Like, I'm curious about that because that would give you a sense of familiarity, mooring, in the Star Wars content universe, but would you actually be less excited than

because it would feel like, oh, okay, well, I've had that elsewhere. If I were going to watch Bad Batch, it would be because I wanted something new. I'm eager for your general read on whether that would make you more or less inclined to partake in this new Philoniverse offer. Yeah, I'm of two minds on this one,

because on one hand, let's take Mandalorian as an example, is probably like, in my opinion, the single best execution of this sort of rebooting IP, for the streaming era and also like just actually bringing an incredibly personal vision, even though it's a collective effort, obviously, and there's lots of different directors, but between Faloni and Favro, like, of bringing this like vision of a universe to life. My favorite parts of that show have really very little to do with the Force or the Jedi. You know, my favorite parts of that show are the world building.

My favorite parts of the show are like the kind of neo-Western vibes of it. I love Baby Yoda. I have stuffed Baby Yoda here. my wife got one. I'm just saying, like, for the most part. Got a Grogo right behind me, Chris. I like him because he's cute, not because he's magical. You know what I mean?

Like, I like him because, like him because he's adorable, not because he can sometimes stop the big, what was that rhino thing that he stopped in the beginning? Yeah, mudhorn. That mudhorn. So, what's that rhino thing? Get ready, because there's a lot, there's going to be a lot of stuff like that.

What year does Game of Thrones take place? No, so I think that, for me, it's, Star Wars has always been about the vibe and not about the, um, the religiosity of it and not about necessarily the superpowers of it. I like the idea that Star Wars is about ordinary people thrust into extraordinary circumstances. That makes sense to me. And I think that one of the things that I would then offer up as a pitch for you and others who, who may be deciding whether to join us on this great bad batch journey, just come be a part of Clone Force 99.

I think that, first of all, you know, you mentioned that singular vision, that clarity of vision, that intent, that purpose, that full understanding of the story, the characters, why the people who are making it love it and why the people who are watching it probably love it too. This is a Faloni show, and it's part of the wider Philoniverse

and the animated Faloni Star Wars show, Clone Wars, Rebel said in the future in the timeline, but essential installation. These shows, I think, offer up the best of exactly what you're describing, which is the vibes, life in the universe, that sliver of the galaxy that maybe you haven't gotten to explore before in one of the primary films, while also, and this is where that hybrid element, that idea of balance, always so key in the Star Wars universe, comes into play, It's also a vast canvas for exploring the mythology and the lore and the elements of the magic and the fantastical aspects of the story that gives Star Wars its energy and fantasy identity. So in terms of Katie's question and the Jedi in Bad Bad Bad Badge in particular, my take on it personally is that I would love to see.

more Jedi and force users in the mix, sprinkled across the season, seeing, again, spoiler warning already issued, but spoiler warning here for something specific from the premiere, seeing Caleb in the premiere is one of the best moments I've experienced as a Star Wars fan, period,

because that's a character I adore from Rebels. And it was such a genuine delight and surprise to see him here. And it didn't feel. like, oh, why do we always have to go to back to Palpatine? And that one of the many missteps in that derailed rise of Skywalker, it felt like an authentic thing inside of the Star Wars universe, especially at that moment, right?

Order 66, the purge, this fulcrum and pivot point from the Republic to the Galactic Empire. I don't see because of where the story is set, actually how we could avoid seeing more Jedi or Force users? Because on the one hand, this is 19 BBI, so we have a long way to go before the timeframe of a new hope and Luke's origin story and bringing the Jedi back to the foreign and reigniting that memory across the universe of what the Jedi are and what they mean and what they can be and do. but because Palpatina's Darth Sidious,

and we are in this show, is set immediately in the wake of Order 66, I think that the force and force users have to fairly regularly appear. You know, I won't go through a totally exhaustive list of every known Jedi or force user, and I guess it's important to cite that distinction, right? Because, yeah, right.

Palpatine, Vader, the inquisitive visitors who will come into existence here to go pursue any Jedi who escaped the purge. They are force users. They are not, of course, Jedi, though, you know. Shots to my dude, Anakin Skywalker. I love her now and always. They're not observant. They've set themselves on a different course.

But again, yeah, I think it's about balance. I think it's about pacing and spacing and a longer season certainly allows for that. I mean, I think it's about choosing the moments where we're turning to those characters, whether it's something like Caleb and the premiere. Will we see Obi-1 at some point? Will we see Asoka at some point? Will we actually see Grogu who has gone into hiding? And we don't know how or why yet.

Now, of course, in theory, you would think that should be a reveal saved for his show, but maybe just a glimpse, something to wet the appetite. You know, I'm into all of that. And I think the list of possibilities here is pretty long, all of which would feel, or there are many ways that they could feel, I think, fresh and new and vibrant.

And, like, they would build on and expand canon, not just retread. Like, give me, Chris, give me some time with Jakasta new. Do it. You know? I know Jocasta's a favorite of yours. I know you've been sitting here saying, yeah, I've read the comics. But you know what I want to see on the screen? Jicasta doing everything she can.

Oh, for a second there, I thought you were talking about the Ravens G.M. Eric Dacosta. Sorry, my bad. and prevent that list of force-sensitive children from falling into Palpatine's hands. Speaking of force-sensitive, Eric DeCosta. We can't prove that. That's not true. Another good draft, I got to say. How you feel about the Eagles draft?

Full-tide. That's how I feel. I was happy for you, man. I was. I know you've wanted a past catcher in that you just have been sitting here for a long time on the internet looking at Nelson Aguilar memes. So, congrats. Congrats.

Quickly on this last point is Omega a force-sensitive clone. This theory is gaining traction already, just two episodes in. I'm starting to think yes. Now, despite everything

I just said and all the trust I have in Faloni and this overall show and project, the idea of right away returning to Palpatine clone-centric storylines

does make me a little bit nervous. That said, her abilities, her name. If you think back to Clone Wars, which Chris, I know you're a fan of all 100-plus episodes. Things like Children of the Force, the Zillob Beast arc, it's established in this part of the Philoniverse and the animated verse that Papalitian pursuing

any force-sensitive child he can find and also with something like the Zillow Beast expressed interest in cloning, how to strengthen a secret force, et cetera, all part of the canon at this part in the years leading up to this part of the timeline. So I would not be surprised at all. Any other thoughts on Star Wars before we move on, Chris?

No, but you know what? I wanted to ask you based off of this question, I don't want to get too far afield here, but given how Mandalorian season two ended, how much of the energy of the climax of that season do you want to see brought into the next season of it or into Book of Boeufet, or do you want them to dial it back and go back,

and go back to, we're just some gunslingers in the outer room. See, this is one of my problems and often why I end up recording two and a half hour podcast. It's because I'm about to set you off on a 42-minute monologue about this. Well, no, I'm just like I want it all. Why don't I have to choose? Because now, you have to choose because certain things only work in proportion to other things, right? But isn't this one of the great gifts that Disney Plus provides us is that we can actually have

all of those versions of the thing. And maybe they're not all happening inside of the same season of TV, but they can all be a part of our shared Star Wars experience. Yes. That is one of the paths that Disney Plus could take to be everything all of the time always on. Or it could be special event programming, which is kind of what it is right now.

Right. I mean, I will say final sales pitch for you for Bad Batch, that surprising energy and instant affection that developed between Grogu and Dinn, Bibi O'Don Mando, that Adventure of the Week, that template, this is something that Limburg said last week on the show, oh, I wonder how much of this will be basically

the Mandalorian model of like a surprising guardian prodigy pairing. That's clearly happening in Bad Batch. Clearly that is happening with Omega and the Bad Batch. And so I think if that was something that you enjoy about Mandioreen, Mando, you can tap right back into that here, you know? I'll definitely check it out. I will definitely check it out. Okay.

What I wanted Mando is for Grogu to always be a part of it. I'm not personally disciplined enough to go multiple episodes without him. And if he is at Luke's school and I heard the accent there when I said Luke's school, yeah, I did hear it there. Every now and then I am conscious of it as I say words aloud. And Mando is out doing bounty hunter work across the galaxy. We're thinking about chain codes, tracking fobs, and whatever else. I'm sure that would be thrilling in a really good episode of TV every week,

but I will spend every one of those episodes wondering where Groger was. That said, one of the best things they did in season two was proved that they could make an excellent episode of TV without Groga. Yeah. I think it was just that we knew he was coming back. We knew he was coming back. So if you enter season three that way, I guess you'll still have that propulsive. Okay, but when will he return? Force behind the viewing experience.

But to me, there's a difference between knowing it's one episode, not like a whole season maybe. I can't wait that long. It's a completely different show because he's not protecting him. That was the motivating impulse of all those episodes is protecting that, the child. My beautiful little Grogo. God, I love him. The first three episodes of season three are going to be without Grogu, and then Dyn's going to have to go back.

for a parent-teacher conference. And Grogues has just been a menace. He's been throwing food around. He's been fighting the other kids. Stealing the blue macaroons at Jedi school, you know? Looks and I'd be like, what were you teaching this guy? Because he's got no manners. I love Grogo.

He's a baby. It's sure he's 50 years old and maybe most people have manners by them, but he's a baby. Let's cut him some slack. I love him. All right, Jomi. Let's get into question two. again from Facebook, from Don L. He asks,

have you watched Jupiter's legacy? A penny for your thoughts. Chris, have you watched Jupiter's Legacy? No, I have not, and I made a choice not to, because I don't really feel like the Mark Millar stuff is on my frequency, you know, and I watched it.

Not really. You know, I think Kingsman's pretty entertaining, the movies. They're, like, ultimate plain movies for me, but I watched the trailer for Jupiter's Legacy, and I just felt like after the boys and Invincible, I was like, I feel like I got it. I feel like I got the revisionist.

Who watches the superheroes thing down? Okay, that's interesting. So I will say, I watched all of Jupiter's legacy this weekend, and it could not be less similar to the boys or invincible, if that specifically is your concern. Check out Trump. Charles's interview, if you haven't, with Mark Millar that is on last Friday's Midnight

Boys Ringerverse episode. There's also a Q&A on the ringer.com. Mark Malar, comics legend. And the beneficiary of a very unique and interesting deal from Netflix where they're just like, we want it all. The whole world. Yes. The whole world. Right. So a lot of programming coming our way. He is, of course, the creator of kickass. Kingsman, as Chris mentioned, wanted, responsible for some iconic Marvel and DC arcs, too. I mean, he's a central figure in the Ultimates, Civil War, Old Man Logan, on and on the list go. So I was excited to watch this. I have not read the Jupiter's Legacy comics. I am more interested in reading them actually after watching the show because I'm very curious about...

How the earnest nature of the story and the characters renders on the page, my take broadly on the show is that I did not think it was particularly good, but I did have a lot of fun watching it. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes you're able to say this is, okay, this is not exactly a cinematic masterwork. this is fun. This is fun to just plow through on a Friday night or a Saturday. Let's check in actually right now. I'm going to check this. What's the current Rotten Tomatoes score? When I looked yesterday, it was 33%. Let's see. Jupiter's legacy. Oh, oh, we're soaring right now. We are up to 36% as of Tuesday morning. Wow. Eclipsed Westbrook's three point percentage. Audience scores in the 70s, however. I've always interested with something like, like that happens.

This is happening more and more. There's more and more of a divide there, I think. Yeah. And you're, you know, Chris, you're a fan. You're a man of the people. I know. So you got that critic ad on these elitists in their bubble. It's not about that.

I found a lot of the ideas at the heart of this season of TV, eight episodes, to be actually really interesting and compelling and things that I am generally interested in spending my time watching or reading. about and thinking about ideas like American exceptionalism, the pursuit of the ideal, living by a code, the weight of legacy. I really like that stuff. So I was excited to watch it, and I often found the way that the show examined those questions and the burden of the characters thinking about those questions.

Pretty interesting. A lot of the things, though, that normally in a story would be subtext are overt and consistently recurring overt text here. It's not the subtlest story. Like, for example, something like a code that superheroes would choose to live by, something that maybe you often feel emerging as you watch them in action. They just talk about the code a lot on this show, Chris. They have a lot of conversations about the code, right? So maybe that's not for everyone. It didn't quite work for me all the time, but it does have a lot of the ingredients that I like, including, you know, multiple timelines. So I wanted to ask you, Mal, like, one of the things that has been sort of critiqued about this show has been the performances and that they could have been better.

And I'm without naming any names or getting too critical of anybody's one job here. I was just wondering that, like, we have been blessed over the years with an incredible influx of acting talent, just being like, I'm making superhero stuff. It's cool. Like, I'm just going to be Mark Ruffalo and be real good at it. What would you say about the performances in Jupiter's legacy? I think it's a fair point to raise, you know? Okay. It's a fair point to raise.

We can leave it at that if you want to, yeah. Yeah. It's just all of it is, again, like, earnest and self-aware, almost to the point where it takes you out of the viewing experience and a sort of surreal. I do love, I'll just say, I love Ben Daniels. You're a crown head, right? Yeah, I'm sure. Earl of Snowden, I'm a big fan of the Ben Daniels Instagram experience, which, which is much like my Instagram,

almost entirely devoted to his cat. So I love that. And seeing him play Brainwave, and yes, that is his character's name, Brainwave, in Jupiter's Legacy, gave me more motivation to return to his Instagram and see the latest pictures of his cat I had missed. So I loved that.

It's trying something interesting. It doesn't quite work. I am intrigued enough, certainly, if there's a season two to return, but a lot of unevenness across the season one experience. Also not a fan of the costumes. Let me just say that. They need to get some of that like sneakers app,

hype beast drop energy into those costumes, you know? Isn't part of the code, you know, not buying from resellers? I don't know if the utopian, yeah, runs his dry cleaning through stock X or anything like that. I can't say for sure. Good question. What's next, Jomi? I think we're about to talk about a show that Chris is excited about, which makes me excited. Our third question comes from Lacey from Twitter at Lace on film.

What do we predict is Loki's future? The streets. Okay, Lacey's plugged in. The streets are saying this may be Hiddleston's last time playing him. Is he making it out of the show alive, passing on the torture some way? Is that even possible? Chris, I want your thoughts on this, but let me just say right from the jump. is this Hiddleston's last time playing him.

My response to that is simply this. Parish the fucking thought. Lacey, it's the exact opposite. They're setting this up so that this guy can play Loki for the rest of his life. Because let me tell you something. No one has hung on to a character

the way Tom Hiddleston has hung on to Loki. When every trade wind in the world is directing him to just be like, you know what, dignified exit, I'm out. He is like, screw that. Here I am at another convention. Here I am saluting the troops because he loves playing this role.

And what they can do with this series is essentially detach Loki from his own history and sort of wipe the slate while keeping the essential core things, the sort of the mischievous gesture, the liar or whatever, but you can apply those things to quote unquote

being a good guy if you want. Maybe he'll be still like a little bit ambiguous in terms of where his allegiances lie. I don't know who could be vying for his allegiances, but I think that if you read comics long enough, actually better put,

if you read comics and then stop and then come back to them, which plenty of comic readers do, you may have the sensation of being like, wait, this guy's a good guy now? And you know what? That's okay. that works.

And Loki's been around. He's been in the game long enough that you could actually switch him up a little bit here coming out of Loki. And then what I think Marvel can, should, and would, and might do is essentially like treat Loki like their Sherlock.

And come back to Loki every couple of years for a few episodes for a ton of fun. And I, you know, Wanda Vision and Falcon both had their, both had their, their pluses and minuses. This is the one I am looking at, forward to. This is the one where I'm like, what a great idea for a show. What a great cast. What a great vibe they have clearly found, at least based on the trailer. And I cannot wait for this.

It's my single most anticipated bit of culture of the summer. I can't know. Just get all the anxiety. You guys got to get Lacey. Just take a breath. They're not, he's not getting killed off. He's not passing the Loki, like, character on to anybody. I wouldn't be. so sure about that part. But I think that because it's Loki and we are so heavily in the realm of magic with his character, but also what is one of the functions of the show, he picked up the Testeract during the time heist in Avengers Endgame in New York in 2012 and ported himself off to a new timeline and new dimension. And that is, as we've seen from the trailers, at least, the premise of the show is anchored in rectifying that. Rectifying that. Rectivor.

and repairing the branches of reality that are offshoot of his decision. We hear him refer to as a variant in the trailers. We see him wearing his variant jacket. And so I think that because of that we can say with certainty that we will meet other Loki variants. Lady Loki seems like a safe bet, a very popular theorizing among the fandom already about how Lady Loki could factor into the story. Jomey and I have talked about this before earlier in the run.

I feel, I feel like one of the theories that I personally am subscribing to is that we will get Kid Loki, not only as part of Loki, the TV show, but as one of the many building blocks that are already sprinkled across phase four for the Young Avengers, because Kid Loki is a part of the Young Avengers. Now, one of the ways I could see that happening is that in order to repair the timelines at the conclusion, whether it's this season or ensuing seasons. There are reports of season two already, but that's not officially confirmed. What if our Loki, or this Loki variant, as they say, has to sacrifice himself in some way,

make some sort of decision like that in order to repair the timelines and then the version of him that manifests anew is Kid Loki for Young Avengers? I could definitely see that, or maybe Lady Loki is the one who answers the story, maybe more than one Loki variant re-entger's story. All that said, I think that will happen.

I definitely do. I think we will get these other versions of Loki in phase four and incorporated it into the primary storytelling apparatus of the MCU. But I don't think we will ever say goodbye to Tom Hilsons, Loki, ever. Because he's one of the heartbeats of what this experience is. He's such a joy to watch. Do you think him picking up the Tessor Act in New York City in 2012 caused insanity?

Did it happen before or after February of? 12. Oh, man. Chris, well, yeah, Jomey, what do you think? You're not only a scholar of the NBA, but you're a scholar of the conversation that the ancient one and Bruce Banner had at top of the sanctum roof about restoring the timeline. If my timeline math is correct, this is probably like the end of Linsanity. Yeah, yeah. Right? So he probably ended Linsanity. It's a cause and effect thing. It's like, who knows? Yeah, one. Yeah, once Loki took the Tessorac back to the new timeline. It was a rap on insanity. It was tough, too.

Melo came back. Yeah. Yeah, you know, they started to put a Melo at the three instead of the four. You know, it's hard. You know, it was hard for Dan Tony back then, but, you know, it happens. Chris, you mentioned mischief. And I have to say, I find the pure heart that you're bringing into this, you know, oh, Loki's just a good guy now. You remind me of another one of my favorite marble characters.

Not sure if you've ever heard of him. Thor, the God of Thunder? I get that a lot. Who routinely falls into this trap of thinking that Loki has really turned to the light fully. Now, I've mentioned already on this episode that I love a redemption arc. And Loki's is one of my favorite, not only in the MCU, but across all of stories, it really is. I just love it.

The mischief is always there. The god of lies, the trickster god, the god of mischief. It's embedded in his DNA and his very essence, his spirit. And I wanted to ask you if you thought that was a love. part of why. We're getting this show on Wednesdays. This has moved from June 11th to June 9th, from Friday streaming to Wednesday streaming. Alt timeline, God of Mischief indeed.

Is this all part of the protracted, fully realized Loki experience? Or does this have more to do with maybe the fact that the movies are coming back and they come out on the weekends? I think it's the latter. I think, and somewhere in the back of my... brain this has something to do with the NBA playoff schedule that I don't really know yet but like I think that noticing a pattern here

Big Bob. No this is great. Big Bob has his eye on everything. No, Chris this is fantastic. So in the first or I guess the second week of July is going to be just a great end of the week, right? July 7th is

you know episode 5 of Loki, the penultimate episode. Right? And that's usually when things get cracking in most Sherpers, right? Thursday, July 8th, game one of the NBA finals. Right. We're going to be pop and it's going to be lit. July 9th,

Black Widow premieres. Yeah. It's going to be great times here at the ringer.com. She's going to be fun. Yeah. The mouse is happy. I can't wait to see Yelena sitting courtside. They do that though, remember? You know, like they like to put people in the stands.

I can't wait. It's going to be on the big board, one of the fan board, rooting hopefully for the Lakers, you know, but we got to win the playing game. We got to win the playing game first. Hoping for that. I'm not so sure. Certainly no one else on this podcast is hoping for that.

How are you feeling, though, about the Wednesday switch? Does it excite you to get Loki midweek? It thrills me. I would love it. But here's my problem. If you're going to make the change, put it on it at 8 o'clock Eastern, or put it on at like 9 o'clock Eastern.

I want the collective experience. This is the one thing missing from this whole thing is if you choose the entire world or country or whatever, you and all your friends, whatever size community you want to look at it, can go see a Marvel movie at the same screening. You can all go to the same movie theater. You can come out, you can go get drinks or pizza afterwards

and talk about it. I want that for these shows. I want one show to be like, gather around. It's just like Thrones on Sundays, it's just like, you know, Breaking Bad was on Sundays. And I think that's the missing element. I understand why they're not doing it.

I understand it's a global effort on their part. This is not just about like a couple of bloggers who would love to have like a little bit more of a structured social life. But I do think it would be fun to have a collective experience with one of these shows, rather than don't look at Twitter for the 12 hours while you do your job the next day. Yeah. It's definitely in the middle of the week has fully entered, must stay up to watch at midnight, territory. Just can't risk the trending topic spoilers on Twitter on Wednesday morning. Can't risk it.

We're all midnight boys now, Chris. You know? To that point about shared experience, I will just say that I think that broadly we can trust that Loki, like many of the installments at the dawn of of face four of the MCU, will mostly, will largely be about that. In a macro sense, if not a literal, we all turn on Disney Plus at the exact same time. sense because, you know, I think that if we look at Wanda Vision, Thalken and the Winter Soldier, what we can anticipate from Loki, what we can anticipate from Black Widow, what we can anticipate from what if, on and on until we get into the back half of 2021 and the new characters and new installments, Shang Chi, Eternals, etc. There's this bridge aspect to all of these stories

honoring the first three phases of the MCU and that shared experience that we had together as fans of the Infinity saga. Chris, still one of my fondest memories to this day is watching Infinity War in the theater with you for the first time, a thing that you do not remember that we did together, but that is very meaningful to me.

And then also building this pathway into the future of new stories. Loki is a perfect character for that because he is so deeply rooted and embedded in the first three phases of the MCU. But because of this alternate timeline, all of these different branches of reality that he will be popping into

in this crime thriller genre to work to repair, we're going to get to visit so many different nooks and crannies, much like you're still one of my favorite ringer pod network live reads for Thomas's English muffins and nucks and crannies

of the Marvel cinematic universe and then also move into this new shared experience together. So I think we'll get that still. Madeline I had this, we talked about this earlier, but I'm an interested to ask you, Chris, would you think Disney ever moves into the HBO Sunday 6 p.m. slot? This is one of the things that Andy and I talk about on the watch all the time is like the delivery models that different streamers are adapting. So you see with Amazon and Hulu, they've been playing around with three than one, then one, then one, or two than one than one. Obviously

they tried that with, they did the first two, was it for Wanda? And I think in retrospect, a couple people, I think I saw a lot of people, including I would agree. I think it should have been the first three Wanda's, although I think that would have compressed the actual buildup, because as we saw, as Wanda played out, it started to sort of permeate into different

circles that maybe it wouldn't if it was just like, everybody watch it right all at once. Netflix, I just, I simply don't think we'll ever change. I think it's baked into, I think one of the things, and I think one of the things that Netflix has kind of done over the years is just sort of said, like,

We are providing an alternative to the experience that people typically have. We believe in their own sort of jurisdiction over their watching habits. If you want to watch one outer banks at a time, go ahead. If you want to watch 10 outer banks in a row, go please by all means. That was my choice. If you want to watch 60 bakeoffs, go for it. If you want to make bakeoff the thing you watch once a night for a year, you can do that too. So I just really don't think, if they haven't changed yet, if they aren't changing and we're going to get a stranger thing,

questions soon. If they haven't changed with stranger things and they haven't changed with some of their big, big ticket shows, they're not going to change. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today.

That's the perfect segue into our next question, which is in fact about Stranger Things ever heard of it. Jomi, what do we got? Comes from Michael Thompson. Should this be the last season of Stranger Things? Or should the brand continue with the new cast, timeframe, and plot set in a Strangerverse? Strangerverse.

I love that. Wow. That's good. Great stuff for Michael. What do you think? By all accounts, by all accounts from the Duffer Brothers, this was plotted out as a five-season run. So that they, at a certain point after the first season,

when they were sort of casting forward, they were like, I think we've got five seasons. I believe the most recent quote that they gave about this, which was that while Netflix is always very cagey about their renewals, but that they were like, there will be another season of Stranger Things. Stranger Things's production was profoundly impacted by the pandemic in the sense that I think it really, like, derailed it. I do have hopes that some of the issues that people might have felt with seasons two and three, I think three was superior to two, but I enjoy both of them.

I think one is still like a masterpiece in a lot of ways. But some of the issues people might have had may have had to do with an accelerated production that because the streets wanted it. you know, so they were moving fast to get it done. They're also moving fast to tell this story while these kids still look vaguely the way they look because they're in a moment of change, as anybody who's gone through late teens knows. Yes, fully in the brand start has gone from being seven years old to a power of and the NBA territory comes out. He's seven to, you know?

But what we're doing, we got with stranger things is they're up against a biological clock to some extent. but now apparently I think this season four, by all accounts, is the first season in the last couple that they fully wrote before shooting. Now, that could be wrong, but that was the word that I was hearing was that they were like, they wrote it through, it was done, and they shot it, rather than they're getting, they're still finishing the later episodes as they're shooting the beginning of the season. That's how it worked in the past.

They were still writing the late episodes. In most TV is like you're still finding out what's happening. Like, that happens a better call Saul. The writers may know. But this isn't like a season of Castle. I mean, we're talking. Wait, wait, first off. To be clear, I love Castle.

That was not a shot. Steve and I routinely, if you want to ask, what do Steve and I talk about most? It's probably like 60% ringer pods and like 40% Castle. So I was not taking a shot at Castle. Let that be clear. Steve is currently sending me, all caps, explanation point. Jets right now.

So here's another thing that happens is that if you may notice Millie Bobby Brown, David Harbor, enormously popular performers currently in a lot of different things, in a lot of different things coming out. Kyle Chandler is yelling at Millie Bobby Brown about not letting podcasts rot her brain in Godzilla versus Kong. So in the years since Stranger Things Season 1, they have probably had to schedule the shoots of like, we have Harbor for this block of weeks.

You know what I mean? We have Millie for these block of weeks. But then he has to go shoot a Marvel movie or she has to go shoot a Godzilla movie. I have a lot of high hopes for season four, specifically because I think that the break in between seasons while frustrating for Stranger Things fans will actually lead to maybe a superior product.

That makes sense. Would that outcome then... lead to you being more at peace with the overall Stranger Things experience concluding, though? Like, if it feels like a totally cohesive, fully realized season of TV, are you going to be like, okay, I'm good, I'm done. I'm done with Hawkins. I'm done with these characters. Once they get Harbor back, let's just say that's the goal of season four. Right. Well, I mean, no mystery there anymore, right? You know, the season, season three ended with just overwhelming despair, having lost Hopper. And then, of course, I think,

You know, Chris, we did some pods about Stranger Things Season 3, the experience that we enjoyed in a season of television that we enjoyed. I think even right in the wake of watching a parsing of clues, we felt fairly certain that he would be returning. That was kind of counterbalanced with how heavily the finale in particular in the season overall, I think, emphasized that loss and pain are a part of growth, a part of coming of age. And, you know, you think of like something like that, that really agonizing, but moving line in Hopper's letter to a level. when life hurts you because of Will,

remember the hurt, the hurt is good. And whether his return would sap some of that message, but also that it felt very clear, even just from, you know, the American moment in the stinger of the season that he would return. And in the first teaser trailer that we got, showed us that he was alive.

So there's no mystery. He's back. And then I think they're going to be, how do they all reunite? If Will's family, they're no longer in Hawkins, they have left. So the map of the Stranger Things universe

has widened. And I think that to Michael's question, that is a little bit of a test case even inside of this season for what we could see in the wider world of, as he put it, the stranger verse. I love stranger things. I would love to see the wider stranger things, expanded universe and see stories in other periods of time, see stories in other places. I also feel like these characters and Hawkins is a place, which is a case. character in the show. It's more about those people and their relationships and their coming-of-age journey and learning about themselves and figuring out who they are and who they want to be. It's always been more about that than the mind-flayer to me. But like any great fantasy story,

the mythology that is unfolding around them helps unlock those themes and those ideas. So I would love for this story with this group of people to continue for as long as possible and as long as it can continue to generate high-quality seasons of TV. But once that stops being possible, then I'm ready. I'm ready for the wider Strangerverse. I wouldn't want Stranger Things to go away. I wouldn't want Stranger Things to go away either. I am personally, like, I would watch a Star Court show where it's just like people going to jobs at the mall and like then hanging out.

If they want to make dazed and confused about Hawkins, I honestly would watch that. I think that there are two different, there are two things that are appealing about Stranger Things. There is the 80s amblin vibe, you know, the John Carpenter's synths and the sort of hopeful, idealistic vision of small town America and these kids getting along and being nerds and hanging out and then growing up. That's one thing. And then there is, like you said, the mind flare, the upside down, the mythology of it. That ladder has not always clicked for me in terms of it making a ton of sense. I think that is where the making it up as it goes along. comes in in terms of the writing. And I'm sure they understand it intellectually, like what the upside down is. But it's a lot of like drawings and then like, yeah, when this happens, this happens. And I'm like, okay, you guys tell me. But I would, I would willingly and lovingly, like, continue to spend time in this world. I do think that this group of kids is probably getting too big for this show and probably want to go do other things. So if you were going to do it, you would

But honestly, I would watch Winona Ryder just hanging out in Hawkins. So if you guys want pitches, I got him. Same. I love that. I'd go to college with Jonathan. The mall idea is a great one. We haven't explored Hawkins' high school football team. Like, I just feel like there's a lot of, like, Friday night lights and Hawkins stuff

to do. But, yeah, I think that they've got this season. And I wouldn't be surprised if the fifth season comes, but is, like, four episodes or five episodes. Okay. Interesting. I'll take it all. What's next, Jomey? From talk of a fifth season to our fifth question. Let's have it. This is from Twitter.

Helen, I love Twitter. Ashley wants to know, did Disney make a mistake by pushing Black Widow back so much? Did the hype bore out for that movie? Or is it still strong? Chris, is the Black Widow hype still strong for you? How are you feeling about this? I will see it. Probably see in the movie theater. Will you? Yeah, I think so. And, but yes, it is not, I mean, this movie always was a little confusing to the casuals, I think,

because it's like, we're getting the backstory on a character who's dead, right? We're getting the origin story of a character who's dead. I think that there has been enough rumors and leaks about people who are in Black Widow who are going to matter significantly to the Marvel Universe going forward, that it obviously holds some value for future projects. but to me it was always kind of like this is putting a bow on the Natasha character and this is probably a long time coming that she had her own solo movie

and I think it's cool that they're making by all accounts like kind of a spy thriller like a kind of Russian spy thriller with this incredible cast but I don't really I don't really know I don't really know whether or not like the delays have impacted it

it does feel a little bit like we finally just have to get this thing out but they obviously they held onto it because they think it is, they've got something. Because if they were just like, look, we just need to get this out because of chronology and also like, what a great advertisement for Disney Plus. If we put this up on the, on the service, I don't know. What do you think, Mel? I will say I'm, I'm incredibly hyped for Black Widow. And that I actually am more hyped after the delay than I was before. I will watch the movie at home on Disney Plus.

in my pajamas with my cat by my side, and I will do so gladly. I think that the hype was always going to be intact, no matter how long the delays lasted, no matter how many other installments of Phase 4, and we now have gotten two with Wanda and Falcon. And we will have three before this actually comes out, because Loki will have aired, begun airing a month prior.

You know, this is coming out in July, and will still be the first, film of phase four, despite the delays. And I think that that is just a level of anticipation that you can't erase. Like the first Marvel movie of phase four is going to be an event no matter what. I think that to your point about the challenge

of selling the wider viewing public on, in essence, an origin story on a character who perished in Avengers Endgame, here would be my pitch for why that is actually really interesting. Part of it is specific to Natasha, and part of it is of a piece with what I was saying before about the overall macro approach of the beginning of phase four of the MCU. I think it gives us another one of those bridges.

How does the past inform the future of the MCU? How does spending time with a character who we are already deeply invested in and attached to, like Natasha, help us ultimately invest in a character like Florence Pugh's Yelena, who, this is not a spoiler, this is just clear, will be a central part of the MCU experience moving forward, clearly, right?

I am eager, actually, to learn more about those moments in Natasha's past that informed who she is as a person and informed who we saw develop and evolve so wholly across the Avengers experience. We're going to mostly be in a movie that is set between the events of Civil War and Infinity War. So we know kind of where in the timeline the bulk of this is going to be. But one of the things that, again, I think is pretty cool about this premise, is that it not only flushes out that moment in Natasha's arc, it's clearly going to be heavily built around flashbacks.

I mean, you can see it just in the trailers. Our guy, Thunderbolt Ross, looking fresh, vibrant and youthful in the trailers, we're going to get more about Natasha's origin in the Red Room, the horrors that unfolded there. That's clearly going to be central to her mission to prevent that from happening to other women, other characters moving forward, and introducing new figures who will then take us into the future. I think the taskmaster character is also really intriguing.

We got six new. We've had trailers for a long time, including a new one about a month ago. We got six new character posters this week, Monday of this week. The taskmaster poster heightening the intrigue because there's no actor name on the poster. The other five all had it. They're really clearly leaning into this mystery who is taskmaster. Interesting character in general to introduce to the ambitory. you know, this photographic memory, the ability to memorize and replicate the opponent's skills

to basically mirror, make it like battling a mirror. So even just like seeing the shield in the poster and knowing, and, you know, we'd seen it in the trailer too, okay, that's the Captain America study bearing fruit now in this rendering. Who is Taskmaster? what is that reveal going to be? Well, I can't wait to find out. We have a bonus question here from TD, you know, with the new Black Widow character poster dropping this week,

is who is Taskmaster the new Mephisto Reed Richards? I think it can't be just because the Mephisto Reed Richards theorizing built on itself like a snowball week after week because of the nature of a television release. Yeah. Same with who is the power broker, right? Exactly. So you can't really get that with a movie

because people will go to see it and then they will know. But it is fun in the run-up to it to already have the theorizing building up. Like, is it going to be Anthony Masters, who it is in the comics? Is it going to be Rick Mason? Rick has a character poster, which is really interesting.

What is Rick's role in the movie going to be? Will that end up being the reveal? I like the... I just personally love the idea that it could end up being Molina, that it could be racial vice. I think that would be so incredible. So that's what I'm personally hoping for.

Will we get a Thunderbolt connection here? The questions from a plot perspective and a theory perspective are already really rich. And then again, you compound that, you enhance it with learning more about Natasha's life, her family, the people who means something in her, that family you choose idea, what happens when that fractures.

I think that's incredibly exciting. So I can't wait for the movie. What's next, Jomey? Benedict Williams from Instagram. The MCU version of the Oscars. Who's winning best director, actor, actress, screenplay, etc., etc. So, Mal, you and I have participated

in a couple of, like, fun draft situations where they quickly become very fun. Annihilated you in the superhero draft. Is that what you're referring to? I got this assignment from these questions, and I was like, bang, I just did it. I just did it. I didn't overthink it.

I looked at a list of the movies. I thought about what I loved and I just wrote it out. So I almost want to just get your reaction to mine before we do yours because you're going to have so much great reasoning behind yours. You're going to have thought about all these different permutations of why it should be this and not that. And I was just like, let's let it roll. So should I go through the first annual MCUCRs?

Wow. The CRs. I love it. Should we start with a big one or go start to lower it up? The Chrissies, that's right. Let's start with Best Picture. Well, you're Soderberg here, so you go in whatever order you want. Oh, well, Soderberg, I should do like Best Picture first, right?

Start with Best Director, I guess, in that case, right? Best director, I have controversial opinion here, Joe Johnston, the director of Captain America, First Avenger, because I feel like that is the most visually distinctive Marvel movie in a lot of ways other than Ragnarok. and Joe Johnson is somewhat like erased from the kind of collective memory and that movie is seen sort of as like an unsteady first step out. But I remember really, really, really enjoying it and also thinking it was incredibly visually distinctive. So while not the best movie, I think directing wise, it was my favorite favorite directed movie. I can tell Jomey does not agree.

Jomey is a first Avenger hater. So don't, don't want him talk about. out of it. It's boring. It's a boring film. This is just not a true. It's a snooze fest. It's a wonderful movie. And when you break down the component parts of it, Erskine, Peggy, you love all of that, Jomey.

You love it. You sound like, you kind of You love a genre movie? No. It has good. Look, I'm not going to compare it to age of Ultron because it's much better than that. Oh my God. Come on. I'm not going to pull a Charles. Don't worry. Don't worry. But it has moments that I like.

you know, relationships and through lines that I enjoy. But as a whole, like the most exciting part of the film is when they should be taken down Hydra. And that's a packed 90-second montage, right? Like, I would love to see Captain America go out there and beat up Nazis. But we don't, you know? You know, Steve Rogers can do this all day, but they only have two hours to make the movie. So you got to make some choices.

I love this pick for you, Chris, because to your point about him being kind of a forgotten figure in the MCU, I mean, the Russo brothers and Marcus of McPhile made the rest of the Captain America movies. And of course, Infinity War and Endgame, it's difficult not to be overshadowed by that. I personally love Captain America of the First Avenger and think it's still one of the 10, at worst, 12 best MCU movies. But I think it's in the top 10 still. So I love this pick. Other nominees for that category were Tycoe Waititi for Ragnarok and Ryan Cookeler for Black

Panthers. So those were my two considerations. I picked Coogler. I have for, let's go, Best Supporting Actress. So you went every category here, not just the, not just the few that mentioned the question. I want it. I'll just burn through it. Leticia, right. Latisha Wright for Black Panther is my best supporting actress. Also my pick. Best supporting actor is Robert Downey Jr. for Civil War. Okay. I have to ask you right away, did you, do you have him in multiple categories? No, I do not. I thought about him for. Then I'm cutting your mic. Steve, Cut Chris's mic. This is ludicrous.

I thought about him for Iron Man 3. I thought about him for endgame and infinity war. But I wanted to maximize the amount of people that I was rewarding. So I put him here at supporting actor. Pause. We have a philosophical quandary to iron out right here right now. You did this on a per movie basis, not necessarily across the MCU. I interpreted this.

Oh, it's like a cumulative reward? Not only differently, but in the way that I wanted to. as I often do with these questions. And it was, yes, the overall contribution to the MCU. Well, then that's easy, ma'am. So it has to be our DJ for Best Actor. Because if you're doing it as like a lifetime achievement award, but we're doing the Oscars.

This is celebrating single things. This is how you get Costner over Scorsese in 91. I think it's an interesting thought experiment, you know, the entire MCU versus, you know, going movie by movie. you know, to see the differences in how it works. Okay, this just radically changes all my picks. Okay, so I have R.D.J. In Civil War as best supporting actor.

This is like a classic, like when you can kind of tap a big star up for a smaller role kind of thing. Ultra, my fault. For best screenplay, for what it's worth, I have James Gunn for Guardians. That's a good, that's a really good pick. I have the Ragnarck screenplay here. Great.

Giers and Kyle Yost. Amazing screenplay. Then we get to actor and actress, and I know these are going to be very controversial, I think. Well, I have Scarlo Johansson for Endgame as actress. So I picked Scarjo for the MCU overall. Everything, yes. However, if we're going by the CRZs, the Chrisies, the Ryan Z's rules here, and doing it for single installments, then I would put, I think I would pick Kate Blanchett for Ragnarach. Interesting.

If we're just going for single film. So you think she would be best actress rather than best supporting actress given screen time? Regrettably, over the course of 23 movies, there aren't too many nominees. I was going to mention this. I was going to mention this. It's a very steep, it's a very quick ride from Kate Blanchett to Natalie Portman. Shouts to Jane Foster, now and always. I mean, she could be coming back.

We don't know. I mean, she could be. Love and Thunder. Yeah. Get ready. It's time. And if we want to look into the future and make predictions, we can just hand, we can hand Best Supporting Actress for the future to JLD.

Okay. Let's just do it now. That's right. Best actress. I had Scarlet Johansson Endgame. And then honestly, just because of like the sheer delight that I got from the performance, even though I know it's not quote unquote actorly,

Hemsworth for Ragnarok is best actor. I love that pick. Yeah. Strong showing from Ragnarok here. When you think about it, the kind of variance of this performance versus like the first two times he plays Thor is so huge. It's worth rewarding.

Oh my God. I mean, unlocking the computer. comedic charm of Chris Hemsworth in Ragnarok is one of the, it's one of these single most important moments in the history of the MCU. It really is. And it ports over outside of Thor's standalone films. I mean, it's elemental to what makes Infinity War hum is just huge. It's huge.

What about Best Picture? End game. That's my pick, too. And I was surprised a little bit because it's not my favorite movie. It is my number four overall, though, to be clear. It's in my top five. You know, my favorite MCU. movie is is Captain America the Winter Soldier.

And then I go, Infinity War, Ragnarok to round out my top three endgame checks in at four for me. But I think the achievement of it just really can't be overstated. Plus, you got to get the Russo brothers and Marcus and McPhile, their statues somewhere in here. And neither of us gave them to them elsewhere. Civil War Winter Soldier, Black Panther and Iron Man three are all high up there for me. But end game, I think, as like a total accomplishment.

And also has like, just has. like the most, I think, like, it gives you the most in a movie, right? Like, there's like the kind of weird, small, intimate moments, and then there is the culmination of everything. And then there's the, there's the catharsis

of the end, you know? Exactly. The, the beautiful coda, the loss, the scale, the stakes, the time for those deeply interpersonal moments of reflection and introspection. It's, it's incredible. The amount of things that they had to pull off

have I done five hours of podcast before about whether the time mice make sense, I have. But I love Avengers Endgame, Pym Particle Strategy, end all. What a film. If you're interested in hearing more MCU awards, tune back in for future installments of the Ringiverse. Just leave that there, you know? It might be something we return to.

Whether or not you'll be invited, Chris, who can say? Well, I think I just gave them all mine. You guys can just repurpose this audio. Jomey, what do we got for number seven? Question seven comes from Pip Horton at Pip Horton. Will A24's The Green Knight be the Dark Horse Blockbuster of the summer? Chris, one of my memories from the before times is watching and talking about the first Green Night trailer with you. Two years ago.

Long time ago. Yeah, like a long time ago. trailer today, new trailer today, and guess what? The movie still looks great, and I can't wait. Coming out July 30th. I am in the dark. It's like in any other reality, a movie that got delayed, these movies that get delayed for so long, you're just like, well, there must have been something wrong with it.

And I actually now am coming around to the idea that the movies that they didn't put out on streaming, that they held for theaters, are because they have like a deep belief that these things are like viable box office things. So shout out to Green Knight. I'm looking forward to that. I have a couple of other Dark Horse blockbusters. These tend to go on the horror side of things. I think horror is a very dependable box office avenue to travel.

So my two... Not here at the Rubin household, but carry on. But the two that I'm looking forward to are M. Knight Shyamalan's old, which is basically one of my favorite settings for horror movies, which is idyllic beach. Not a lot of movies set on idyllic beaches, but when they are, it's scary. And then the other one is false positive,

which is also going to be in Hulu, so I don't know about box office. And this is the Alana Glazer, Justin Theroux, Pierce Brosnan, Rosemary's Baby Rip. Like, it's kind of a Rosemary's baby rip horror movie. Honestly, good logline right there.

Yeah. Sounds great. Now, would you give birth to the Prince of Darkness if Justin Theru was the father? Oh, happily. Yeah, gladly. Without question.

Big fan, as you know, not of Princess of Darkness, but of Justin Thoreau. Chris, you know I love a quest. You know I love a test of honor and will. And you know I love Arthurian legend. So I can't wait for the Green Knight, and I'm still as riveted as I was

two years ago when I heard it the first time by this exchange in the trailer. I fear I'm not meant for greatness. We all fear, but fear can be a gift. I'm in! All right, Jomey, what's number eight? Number eight. This is a special one.

Comes from Twitter, Chris Kelly at C. Kelly 2008. Not exactly Ring Reverse material, but I know Mallory and Chris enjoyed Outer Banks season one. What are your hosts for season two? and will we get it this year? This show broke me. But in all the best ways, right? Yeah, because, like, I know that I only've got so much time on this planet. You know what I mean?

You get to my age, you start thinking about the back half rather than the first half. And I could be watching, I could be watching great works of world cinema or reading Russian novels that I haven't read or just really improving myself. And instead, the outer banks made me a stand for dumb, Y-A shows. So. Welcome.

They're not dumb. They're rewarding and rich and layered and I love them. And I loved this show. I'm probably more mad about the society

not coming back than I am about like the prospect of like succession never coming back. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm like more, I'm so upset that they're not going to make

another season in the society and I blame Outer Banks. I blame John. I blame hot, dumb teens searching for gold treasure. So remind me, where do we leave our intellectual? Our intrepid explorers. Yeah. In love.

On a boat, right? Yes. If I recall and... Sailing to the Bahamas, right? To be candid, I might not. John B. and Sarah were making their escape. and after sailing into the eye of a hurricane, were rescued by a cargo ship and brought aboard?

Does that sound right? It brings a bell. On shore, Ward, the handsome bearded ward, who we learned was embroiled in the plot, had to contend with the fact that everything was unraveling around him. You know, Weesey was there somewhere.

Pope, Kiara, JJ, all of our characters were going through something. And I just personally can't wait for more boats, more hurricanes, more beat up Chuck Taylor's, more stories around gold and young love, more ferry trips that don't make any geographical or timeline sense to Chapel Hill. Sign me up for season two immediately. And also, I don't need to know. That's the other thing about this. Because remember what a surprise it was. All of a sudden, one day,

one day, Outer Banks just materialized in front of us, you know? Very little run up to the show. I kind of want season two to happen that way, too. And this is not normally how I approach new experiences, as you know. I like to have a lot of time to plan and prepare for them. I want to turn on my TV one day and just see that Outer Banks is already number one globally on Netflix. Netflix will do it to you.

I remember driving down Franklin one time, and I was making a left on like Fairfax or something, and I was like, is that a Mind Hunter billboard? Is Mind Hunter coming out tomorrow? What's happening? There's a show I miss. Great one. So we can't wait.

We can't wait for Outer Banks. And hey, who knows? You know, the question from Chris said it's not exactly ring reverse material. Would you be surprised if season two of Outer Banks featured like a warlock or some sort of, A zombie, perhaps? I wouldn't be. Not a zombie, yeah. Aliens,

and droids and warlocks. Big three. That's the big three. Big three. Just need one. Just need one to get on the Ring Reverse. Exactly. That's a good rule.

I like that. All right. Number nine. Number nine comes from Tom on Twitter. What projects are you most looking forward to? Okay, so here's the rule for this, Chris. We've already, I think, both said that Loki is our number. one, and we've already talked about a lot of summer releases, or maybe future in the case of

Stranger Things. We don't know when that's actually coming out, but we're getting teasers in the summer, so it counts a summer hype in some way. Nothing that we've already talked about today is eligible for this list. This question, what projects are you most looking forward to has to be entirely new, stuff that we haven't talked about yet. Give me your like three to five most anticipated. Okay, so not stuff that we've talked on about on this episode? On this episode. Yeah. So we know Loki's your number one, et cetera. Okay. And ringer-vers centric, right?

Not just like, oh, this Colin Farrell Whaling show, right? I, you know, ringer-vers-centric would be ideal. However, if you want to use this opportunity to talk about episode five of mayor, I'm not going to stop you. Special dispensation for the upcoming season of succession, season three. Of course. And for Showtime, the Lakers Show. These are the two things that keep me, I get up every morning and I say praise B because these two shows are coming. other than that.

And I think that this is the number one one that I think is Ring or Verse Adjase, and that is Paper Girls. So Paper Girls is a Brian K. Vaughn comic that Amazon is adapting. It's being adapted by Rogers and Canwell, who did Halt and Catch Fire. And it should scratch

Our Stranger Things Itch. I actually haven't read the comic, but from what I've read about what's coming, it's really exciting. It's a 1980 set group of teenage girls who were on a newspaper delivery run, and they ride their bikes around, like delivering newspapers

and have basically a interaction or an experience that causes them to start skipping through time and interacting with and seeing future past and present versions of themselves. And the idea of taking Vaughn, who's obviously a G, and Rogers and Cantwell, who have made one of the most critically acclaimed shows

of the last 10 years, and throwing that together, I'm really excited for Papergirls. Oh, man. I've got Brian K. Vaughans. I've got Saga. I've got Why the Last Man right over my shoulder here. I can't wait. So I'm really looking forward to that. I'm also really looking forward to one that not maybe a lot of people are up on, but I hope if you are listening to this show, you have gotten a chance to watch the Netflix series Dark. And if you have, and if you were brought into that incredibly atmospheric, vibe, somewhat mysterious, but also deeply emotional, world of time travel. I can't tell you, I know you're already down with this. So the makers of dark, their new show is called 1899. And I don't know if it's coming out this year. I hope so.

It looks like it is because they put out a teaser for it. They shot it in Germany using Mandalorian technology of like the screens inside of a studio. And it is set on a ship of a bunch of people in 1899 on a ship coming over to the states to immigrate from Europe. So it's a pan-European show. I'm going to have like a wide, diverse cast of characters, and there is a secret on the boat. And it's just so it's a mystery box show. It has like lost vibes to me. And so I'm very, very, very excited to that for that. Oh my goodness. That sounds incredible. I can't wait. Does the secret have anything to do with a mysterious island or a smoke monster? No, but they were like, if you like dark, you know what you should expect from us.

These are great picks, Chris. Thanks. Let me give you a couple of mine. Number one, this won't surprise you. More House of the Dragon teasers. Oh, yeah. I'm just delighted. I'm delighted to have it back in my life.

Every photo, it just feels like I'm that much closer to returning to. Season 8, disappointment, knowledge, of course, but returning to, genuinely and sincerely, one of the most meaningful experiences of my entire life, which was talking about something inside of the Asong of Ice and Fire universe with my colleagues and my friends. I really am excited for it. And the Dance of the Dragons is one of the most scintillating periods of the timeline. So just seeing the set photos and the little. snippets and teases so far. I just can't wait. I want more.

I'm very, very eagerly awaiting our first glimpse of future characters who we have not seen yet. Where's Patty? Just waiting for Prince Eagon. Where's Patty, man? Why are they holding back Patty Constantine pictures? It's just, you know,

we're early in our House of the Dragon Instagram journey. That's true. Got to paste ourselves. I can't wait. I'm just so hyped. Next for me, I think because this is September 3rd, which is technically still summer. And I think I tend to think of September's fall, but that's technically summer. I know that we're supposed to do summer stuff, but like I wanted to just expand the... Okay, House of the Dragons coming out in 2002, man.

But I'm counting every tweet and Instagram as summer hype. That's right. You know, make the rules work for you, Chris. Shangxi and the Legend of the Ten Rings set for early September, second film of phase four. trailer looked amazing. Bring the Mandarin back into the MCU. Let's go. I cannot wait.

This film looks really awesome. Don't have an exact time for this next pick. Will it be summer? Will it be early fall? Don't know, but I'm going to guess late summer right on the heels of Loki or shortly thereafter. And I'm going to say, what if the animated alt-history MCU show, which I truly cannot wait for.

How about Suicide Squad, Chris? August film? Get a little DC action here. You mentioned James Gunn for The Guardian script for your MCU awards earlier. Very curious to see how this film unfolds. Trailer, I have to say, I enjoyed if I thought it looked fun. So I'm really curious to see that. And then my final pick is Sweet Tooth, which is coming soon.

It's coming really soon. Like June soon to Netflix, eight episodes. Trailer looks amazing. our dear Steve swears by the comics, says that they are wonderful and has really encouraged all of us to catch up on the comics in time for the show, so I can't wait for that.

You know, there are a lot of other things. I haven't watched The Mitchells versus the machines yet. That's already out on Netflix, but that looks amazing. I can't wait to check that out. Monach, coming on Hulu soon. More Marvel, The Fix, in a new way with a new style.

That's going to be really fun. I've heard wonderful things so far about Superman and Lois. on the CW. I love the Arrowverse, so I haven't started that yet, but I cannot wait to die. Now, did you watch the second season or any of For All Mankind? I haven't, actually, and my husband recently watched lost patience with me. I'd asked him to wait, he decided not to, watched it all without me, and it was rude, actually, and he loved it. Thought it was just absolutely revelatory. And I know from Michael Balman that it's supposed to be excellent,

and you're a recent conver, right? You're part of the hive now. Season two is incredible. Yeah, I need to move it on my list. I need to move it up my list. I can't wait. I can't believe you're leaving your boy Ron like this. No, never. I would never, ever leave my boy Ron.

How dare you, frankly. I'm going to move it up my list. I can't wait. Right after my Battlestar rewatch, Chris. Chris, we have reached the end of our mailbag journey today, but I'd like to think we have just started our ring or verse journey together. Okay. Miles is going to join me for a moment now to talk about Venom.

the symbiotes have not quite worked their way into your heart yet, so you're going to leave. But thank you for your time. Thank you for your passion. Thank you for your insights. Thank you for the inspiration. I'll look forward to sharing all of the content with you this summer. Goodbye. Bye, Mel.

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Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Boershead committed to craft since 1905. Okay. What a delight it was to chat with Chris today. And speaking of delights, one of the things that brings me true joy, true, true, true joy is seeing how happy Venom makes my colleague Miles Surrey. And so when a new Venom trailer dropped this week, I felt a surge, a thrill of possibility,

knowing that Miles could come chat with us for a couple minutes today. about the new trailer, about the breakfast that Eddie and Venom made together, about an intriguing the Daily Bugle clue in that trailer. Miles, welcome back

to the Ringerverse. It's good to be back, but it's a we because we are Venom. We're all here. We're all back for Venom. That's good. I was wondering if you were going to lean into the bit and do some voice work, maybe have Venom,

join me on the pod as well. I don't know. Am I talking to Eddie? Am I talking to, am I talking to Venom? Let me take over. Miles. No. That's actually pretty good. That was pretty good. If I do it for five minutes, though, like my voice is going to be gone for three days. It might be a problem. Okay. Okay. So the trailer was, you know, two plus minutes, as trailers are. I know that you could talk about what you loved in the trailer for two plus years. But much like the distilled, contained breakfast plate that we saw in this trailer. Let's really boil it down to the essence of what you loved.

What you loved about the new Venom trailer. What excited you? And I know that one of the things that excited you is that this is a love story, and that's one of the things that I find most winning and charming about how you consume venom. What else really stood out to you in the trailer? Well, I think what was exciting to see was like, you know, especially compared to the way like the first venom was promoted. Like the fact that the first scene they're showing isn't like an action scene or like teasing carnage.

Like the opening like a minute of it is venom making breakfast with Eddie Brock and making a giant mess of them. Him and Venom being greeted by a bodega owner, which is absolutely silly. And it's sort of exploring their neighborhood. Exactly. And I think it's like sort of clue, you know, it sort of clues you into like the first venom was great, but it was basically all on Tom Hardy's shoulders where it's like you have this kind of by the number superhero movie like, no offense to Reza Mad, like he was a very generic villain. None of the other characters are particularly interesting. Like it's a very kind of boilerplate story. Even the action scenes are kind of like generic symbiote goop just kind of attacking each other. But like the thing that made it so memorable is Tom Hardy's just absolutely bizarre performance. You know, he's just like sweating his way through the whole movie, like, reacting to like this thing shouting in his head that no one else can hear. And he's just like, what's going on? It's just freaking out.

And it felt like there was this weird tension between like the rest of the movie trying to be normal and Tom Hardy just going off script acting absolutely bonkers. And it seems like based on just the breakfast scene alone, like the sequel's like, okay, this is what people loved about the first event. I'm like, let's bring that all back and like let's basically map. Tom Hardy's energy in the sequel. So I think more than anything else, like I'm excited for a movie where like, you know, sometimes sequels aren't as good as the original, but I feel like this one, it's different

because now everyone's kind of on the same page. Andy Circus and the entire creative team clearly understand the essence of this experience. Woody Harrelson. Cletus, carnage. I know you have a lot of thoughts on the hairstyling and the updates there. But overall, in terms of that vibe.

that energy. How are you feeling about Coletus? It's a great vibe. I mean, honestly, Woody Harrelson is a perfect choice to try to match

Tom Hardy's weirdness. Even if he doesn't have the side show Bob haircut that he had in the Venom mid-credit sequence, which Andy Circus tried to explain an interview. He was like,

well, you know, some time passed and he was going through some changes. I mean, he's like on death row. Like, how often is he getting haircuts? But, you know, But we'll let it slide. Other than that, I, I'm interested in learning more about why Cletus is, like, obsessed with

Eddie Brock, because it seems like he's doing the Hannibal Lecter thing where it's like, I only want to talk to this guy, he's sending him letters. He's doing that, like, we're not so different, you and I thing. Maybe he is an admirer of Eddie's journalistic excellence. Yeah, he's like, they only would let me watch the Eddie Brock report. You know, that's what I wanted with my last meal, one of my favorite episodes. of that, you know, spotlight-like investigative journalism that he was doing on a motorcycle with a leather jacket. I'm not really sure.

I have a lot of questions actually about Tom Hardy's journalism in Venom because in the first one, he got in trouble and lost his job because he went up to Riz Ahmed, who was basically like Elon Musk. And without any evidence was like, I know you're like experimenting on homeless people. And then he couldn't back it up and he lost his job. So I'm very curious to see what kind of journalism Tom Hardy was. will get up to and how it relates to an imprisoned serial killer played by Woody Harrelson who used to have a clown wig and just like how that sets off everything in motion.

Because I assume like at some point in the movie is when carnage like the symbiote fuses with Woody Harrelson because I'm assuming he wouldn't be chilling on death row if he already had the symbiote in him. Looks like that might be the sequence that we see as he is strapped in there at the end, which turns out to not be the end for him, certainly. the beginning for Garnage.

I'm glad you mentioned the likelihood of the film, the Venom universe, examining with rigor and care journalistic pursuits. Because one of the things that we have to talk about for a second here

is that we get a shot in the trailer that is difficult to miss of the Daily Bugle. Now, of course, the bugle Jameson back in our lives recently in Farfiel.

from home in the MCU that was updated. This was very clearly, as you pointed out in your trailer breakdown on the ringer.com, as many people pointed out on the internet yesterday, going frame by frame of the Venom trailer, this is clearly the same Daily Bugle logo that we see in the Sam Ramey, Spider-Man films. There's a shot including smashing a spider elsewhere in the trailer. Are we going to get Spider-Man or a Spider-Man connection inside of this film? And if we do, will that be specific to the Sony superhero experience? Or do you see a pathway here, given all of the whispers about the third Spider-Man film,

the multiverse aspects of that, the different figures who would be a part of that, to an MCU crossover? Yeah, it's really interesting because I feel like, if you're like if someone's not really plugged into the whole like sony versus marvel kind of uh discourse it's it's like you know tom hardy is part of the mcc but like these are sony movies so in theory like you know you can bring a venom or jared leto as morbius like into the fold if all the parties agree to it um i i i do wonder though how because like like we're talking about you know it's the same Daily Bugle logo from the Sam Ramey movies.

However, the Sam Ramey movies also had its own venom played by That 70 shows, Tofer Grace. I love Spider-Man 3, but it's not a good movie, and it wasn't a particularly good venom. But, you know, I digress. I do think that, you know, because Venom let there be carnage will come out before the new Spider-Rand movie,

that might be the biggest clue we get ahead of the release because all of this is always kind of shrouded in secrecy because especially if we're getting Andrew Garfield and Tommy Guar coming back, they don't want to reveal that ahead of time. But depending on what happens in this movie, we might have a much better idea of what exactly we should expect and to do Spider-Man.

And if it is basically going to be like the live action into the Spider-verse type thing where you have all these different iterations of the characters coming back. If Tom Hardy formally, fully enters, the MCU, whether it's to have a ketchup bottle explode in his face or otherwise, I for one, would be delighted. I welcome it. And I know Miles that you would be overjoyed to see him in this rendition in as many places as possible. So thank you for being with us to chat for a few minutes

about this trailer and the absolute exhilaration that it brings you. It's inspiring to see. Wonderful to have you here on the Ring Reverse. Thank you for having us. All right, friends, Miles has returned to making breakfast. Chris has returned to the 1929 timeline. So that's a wrap on today's episode. Thank you as always to our producer, Steve Allman, as well as to TD St. Matthew Daniel, Arjuna Ramgapal,

and the entire production team for their help with this episode. Thank you to the Lord of the memes. Jomea Denneron, first work on the social for this episode. And thank you to my fellow time variance authority stewards, Chris Ryan, and Miles for joining me today. Remember, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Ringerverse. Join the Ringerverse Facebook group. And of course, head back to the feed this Friday for more nerd news and Jupiter's legacy talk from the Midnight Boys, Van and Charles.

Pugh, pew, pew. I will be back next Tuesday with a very special guest. Until then, Pass the ketchup.