The Ringer-Verse - Mantle Wars, James Gunn Nerd News, and ‘Peacemaker’ Season 2 Episode 3 | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 5, 2025

The boys are back to give you the long-awaited Mantle Wars! But first, they talk about the latest Nerd News in the James Gunn universe, and ‘Peacemaker’ Season 2 Episode 3. (0:00) Intro (7:55) Nerd News: James Gunn (30:26) Reactions to ‘Peacemaker’ Season 2 Episode 3 (47:26) Mantle Wars (2:13:08) Outro (2:14:09) Post Credits Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Chris Thomas, Jade Whaley, and Aleya Zenieris Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So say goodbye to the buyfold, add your card to Apple Wallet, and start paying the Apple Way. Terms play. Welcome into the Ringgiverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for All Things Fandom. We are Steve, the architect, I'm the builder of things. Jomi, explainer, Adirond, you've got questions. He's got to answer.

Oman Van, he of the Rescini and Surgeoning. Herald, baby Chuck, 24-carren closer. Together, we are known as of the Midnight Boys. Also, socials, Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Save Jomey's job. Jomew. Listen, normally I don't want to come on here and talk about people. You know,

or dealings on social media which you had a take this weekend that really got the people going. What you mean? Planes.

And who should be flying on planes and kids. And Lincoln don't fuck with the kids. You don't like kids. You don't like kids on planes? That's not what I said.

What did you say was I would pay extra to be able to exist in kid free spaces sometimes. Oh, okay. So you want to have

like an adult's only flight? Yeah. So people are like, You can't hear the babies crying in first class, but you can't. You absolutely can. You would know. You would know. You can.

If you're on a Delta one flight, the first class is gigantic, all these first class seats. But if you were going from like here to New Orleans, first class, and there's a kid crying, you can hear it. This is what I'm saying. And I understand this. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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We can't have society both ways. What do you mean? You guys refuse To discipline or control your children. You don't want to do that. That's fine. This is true. I actually agree with this tape. You don't want to discipline or control your children, right? That's fine.

That's cool. But then you don't want people to be annoyed by that. You can't have it both ways. Either you guys exert some control over these kids or... You want them to slap them around a little bit. Now, not slap them around. I'm just saying it's like... So here's the thing with the kids on the plane.

Okay. Okay. Because people make the, they made the very correct observation that you more often get unruly adults on kids and you do get kids on. Very true. But I can tell an adult to shut the fuck up. If I tell your kids are shut the fuck out, we're about to like, that's the thing. Your kids in these spaces, they hold you hostage. Right.

We can shame adults. I can say, I can be like, hey, man, can you shut up. Shut up. Like somebody. I was on a flight. I was sitting on the window. Somebody reached over to, like, open the window. I was like, hey.

Reached across you? Nah, wait. I was like, nah, nah, nah. Nah. So now, what about holding some empathy for the children? Because it seems like babies have cried on planes since time of memoriam. You know, sometimes are just babies. No, no, I, I, here, this might be an open.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Because sometimes they are just babies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, kids, like, three-year-olds are going to cry on planes. I hate y'all so bad. I hate the whole world, bro. I'm, I mean, this last, so listen, listen, something's happening to me.

Okay. You're getting old? Yeah. This last six months in particular, what y'all just said was complete horseshit bullshit. Did nobody say nothing about not having empathy for kids? Did no one say anything about not wanting? I'm saying if I could pay extra to not have to deal with it

then I would like to do that. I know that babies have to cry. I know that babies, I know that kids make mistakes. I know that teenagers make mistakes. I know that people's brains are still forming. All I'm saying is I would pay extra

to not have to deal with somebody else's kids screaming their head off. If someone could say, hey, Van, here's a flight right now to where this is a fucking 18 enough flight. I'll pay extra for that. And you do realize. Yeah, but here's the thing now people. That's classists, right?

No, but now I'll be real. The thing that you're locating is what people do now where it's like, oh, so you don't like community? You don't like, you don't like take care and like mix your everybody. I'm just like, you didn't say that. Hold on. Well, you did say that you don't discipline our kids anymore. I don't have to take care of your kids. Like that.

No, but that's exactly what people start talking. But. And by the. Listen, I don't have any children, right? I don't. I don't have any children. Don't have any kids. However, my entire crew and everybody I know has them.

And I'm going to tell y'all something. Uh-oh. I could go back 2004, 2003, 2005. The look, I'm not going to call names because I love these women and I love my nieces and nephews. The look on somebody's faces on a woman's face. nine months in, fucking 13 months in. Well, not, maybe not nine.

Maybe, I can't remember. But 13, 13 months in when you go. No, go ahead, I'll watch her. They're going during the afternoon. I'm not doing nothing. I'll see her. I'm playing Halo. Me and Amari sitting right here,

my little niece Amar. Beautiful woman she is now. We just graduated college. So we'll see here. We'll watch Doory to Explore. We'll play. We'll eat his old as illegal burrito. I'll make pancakes.

I'll do the whole thing. I'll watch it. You go, y'all go have some fun. The look on the mother's face, the look of glee when it is you and the baby and they get to go be free. I know that people need a break.

I've seen it before what people need a break. All I'm saying is when I'm flying cross country and I got to fucking sleep on the plane to get up and do TV in the morning it would be awesome if I could have a flight or I'm insured that they're not going to be no kids on it.

And by the way, they're not like kids on the red eye, but sometimes they're all. I fly a lot. Fly out of New Orleans to New York, maybe twice a month. Fly other places. I'm just saying, what's wrong with that? Why? Why? Where on YouTube, like, comment, subscribe, share.

You can watch every Midnight Boys at every House of Our episode of YouTube. com backslash at Ringoververse and also on Spotify. This week, House of Ourc continues their alien earth, deep dives and Buffy Recaps on Friday, Minda Dition does their big comics catch up. Now, what the hell is that?

What are we doing here? Reading comic books, baby. Like what kind of comics? What y'all got? We got absolute Batman. Continuing. New Superman comic called the Kryptonite Spectrum. What is that about?

Superman discovers four new forms of kryptonite, and he has to figure out what it does to him before Lex Luthor does. So he's like doing experiments on himself? Yes. What an idea? He might have enlisted Batman to help him. Oh, daddy. Oh, okay, cool. That's fun.

Yeah. I love him in addition. Okay, on today's show, we're giving you our long-awaited mantle wars, plus instant reactions to the latest episode of Peacemaker. But we're going to get you started with something that just broke Charles is going to get us into it. Something that just happened. We want to know kind of what we're feeling about this. All right. So there's some nerd news just dropped. James Gunn officially announced his follow-up to Superman on Instagram.

Man of Tomorrow is the title. It will release in theaters on July 9. 2027 and the post featured an illustration of Superman and Lex Luthor in his classic tech suit drawn by Jim Lee. All right, Van, this is probably the worst kept secret in Hollywood that James Gunn was working on a follow-up. He has been very, very clear that it was going to be connected to Superman, potentially his Superman family. How are you feeling? Are you surprised that they dropped this announcement? We're getting this in two years.

So this is a, it seems like they're, if they're not in production, they're about to be in production. very, very serious. Yeah, they got to go. They got to go because they need a locked script by probably the end of this year, early next year, because they got to shoot. If they're getting this out, what's it said, July? They need to be in production by summer of next year. Previs, EG, all that way up. They need to go. I'm surprised. Are you? I'm surprised that they're coming back this soon. Not, I'm pleasantly surprised, but

I wonder what the reason for the movie being this soon is. We had a slate from DC, did we not? Of all the folks of the gods and monsters. Was a Superman sequel in that original slate at this time? And to be clear, this is like in tandem with the other Superman family movie that is coming sooner from this. This is like this is. No, no, this is the same thing. This is that.

You got Supergirl next year and then you have this. Right. That's the thread. But what I find interesting to your point is that a lot of the shows and movies that we were promising that original slate, I think they have figured out were harder to launch. I think we were supposed to have Amanda Waller series, a booster gold series. Right. The authority.

Yes. The authority. A lot of this stuff, James Gunn has been very, very clear where it's just like some of these scripts aren't there yet. So part of these like, was this part of the plan? or did they see how Superman did? And they're just like, actually, you know what? We need to strike while the iron's hot.

Get another one out. I think that's part of it. But also the thing about a James Gunn script is that a James Gunn script usually doesn't need all those rewrites because it's written by a James Gunn. And so he can get that out real quick. When you've got to work with other people, it might take, ah, we've got to fix this. We've got to do this. James Gun puts a set down for like eight weeks.

It's like, boom, I got one. Right. Here we go. Let's make the movie. But it's also. fair to know that he basically has final say as to whether or not scripts get approved and projects get greenlit or not. So it's very easy for James Gunn to say, yeah, this one's coming out at this time because I'm writing it and I'm going to be directing it. It's better for us.

Yeah. Also, this tells me that they see their dark night. If you think of Superman as Batman begins, which is a table center for a big, massive genre culture change. movie, a reintroduction of the character, and then the next film being a movie where you can more directly interrogate themes, bring in higher stakes, and do all of that stuff, then maybe they want to get right to that, and they don't want the momentum to be lost, and they don't feel like they could fuck around as much with other characters and other movies before they get there.

Because when you think about this, Supergirl will come out next year. And so then that's three summers of Superman, of super people, of Kryptonians, should I say. That's Superman, the Supergirl, they're leading directly into a movie the next year. Supergirl, Superman, because I don't know if you guys saw, like, there was, they did, like, some behind the scenes of Superman before the, it dropped on streaming. And you can see some, like, storyboard art of, like, the three of them, Crypto, Supergirl, and Superman, like, flying over some stuff. I think it's, like, maybe Brainiac. I'm not completely sure. like just some like stuff that we were like, that's when we were like, oh, they're going to make the super people movie.

And I think this is that. So, man of tomorrow, what I'm starting to think of is like there's also, I think in that behind the scenes feature that you're talking about, there was also a drawing of Brainiac. So part of me is I'm like, all right, man of tomorrow, brainiac. I'm like, are we getting some type of Legion story potentially? Like obviously Superman has had like a very, very connected history as Superboy in the Legion. all this stuff. I'm like, man of tomorrow,

I'm like, I'm starting to be like, what is this going to be? Is it just like a classic, Brainiac, super, like, candor, all that bullshit?

Or are they trying to actually blow this world up and make it into more of a spectacle with more heroes and really kind of usher in the DC? No, I'll tell you what, it seems like it's happening. And it'll be interesting

for the rest of the characters if this is, in fact, what happens. It seems like what the DCU is, is a super, Superman first world, which we've kind of, I mean, we haven't explored this before, but it's a Superman first world where everything else that happens in the world could be oriented around Superman.

Yeah. Because he's their heaviest hitter and their most dependable character. The fact that this entire thing has the stalwart character, the one that's been by far the most solid one, Batman, somewhat sideline until we figure out what's happening in this custody battle, which I believe that that's what it is, is really interesting. It's almost as if you get a Superman movie out this soon, or you announce this movie is coming out this soon,

to really put the pressure on the Batman wing of the party here, to put the pressure on the Batman people that are going on. Because Batman Part 2 is coming out in 2027 as well, right? It comes out in October. Later than this. Again, it's funny because it comes up. We're getting three Superman-adjacent movies in between Batman sequels or Batman movies. And people were like, oh, man, it takes five years to make movies, this and this.

And it's like, obviously, that's not true. I mean, if the quality of some of this writing is any indication, I kind of wish James Gunn would have taken a little bit more time. I think 2027 is very, very, very soon. I mean, I don't think that him taking more time is going to lead to a better script. I think his storytelling style is too distinct. If you like the way he writes, then you'll like what he's doing. If you don't, then you won't. I think, like, literally, I think it, with, unless there are, it's odd, right?

Like, if you compare it to Nolan, Nolan made movies that were very difficult not to like. Like, they're just hard not to like. Yep. Yeah. Like, the films gave you these huge, themes but relatable themes right you didn't like tenant though huh no i'm talking about just the batman movies um like but relatable themes right father destiny place in the world easy joker comes in anarchist anarchy versus idealism easy very easy right um and you leave the movie felt like you

you had a serious experience which is always better for the haughty filmgoer to feel like they saw a movie that was important. James Gunn wants you to see his movie, and he wants you to dig around through it a little bit. And if you're not digging around through it, if you didn't leave, it's almost like Tarantino comic book movie making. It's like Tarantino wants you to exist in his world,

more than anything else. Tarantino would rather write an overlong scene that is a Tarantino scene or put a sequence in the movie that really doesn't make any sense to be in the movie. like Cliff Booth fighting Bruce Lee just because it's cool but you knew you know

that you were in a terrible of immersion with that director yeah it's an experience so when he makes his film as soon as he has his idea he makes his film that's it it's on you and I'm wondering if that will work in the comic book universe if like they're going to be people that

go I don't want James Gunn movie I want a Superman movie that deals in the Superman themes that I know that deals in the Superman stuff that I know I want a Batman movie that deals in a Batman stuff. I don't want that to be... You could do that with Guardians of the Galaxy because those are characters

that we did not have an incredible connection to. I think Reeves is good for that when it comes to his Batman films because he's good at interrogating those types of ideas when it comes to like a character perspective. Again, James Gunn is a bit more

fly by the seat of your pants, a couple of jokes a minute, level of like overlong... Like, he does a couple of overlawn scenes, but it's for the sake of his, like, exercising of humor and like... Reeves is the inverse of

of gun with the same problems. Yes. Like he made, the Batman is good, but he made an overlong, really stuffed Batman movie that really cares a little bit more about tone

and stickiness and immersion than it kind of does about story. There's so much that's going on in there that it's more like, this is the world of the Batman and this is the cool thing about it. like if I ask you to talk about the dark night

what you're really going to talk about think about this when you're discussing the dark night or the dark night rises whenever you discuss it you're talking about dialogue almost always you're talking about stuff that characters said

or the performances or you're just like oh the director put these people whether it's through the screenwriting, through character development. To your point, we recognize like, oh, this is an iconic moment. The Batman does not have as many of those.

I would say Superman, at this point, it's still a little early, does not have as many of those. And when Superman tried it, it's almost as like, that almost like wasn't what the movie was about. The movie was about experiencing it. Christopher Nolan had all these things to say, and I'm comparing it to Nolan because I'm comparing these movies to movies

that when DC was able to take these characters and scale them for audiences and make like the larger culture care. It was because Nolan was able to really boil these down to make serious filmgoers go, oh, there's something in this movie that I have to interrogate. There's something being said here that's like worth being said, even if it's being said by the Joker, even if it's being said by Batman.

Every time somebody says something to Batman, they're like either, they're kicking his ass and telling him that he's doing the wrong thing. or they're saying you need to be doing more. And so there's this constant traction. And that was really, particularly in the era that we were in, that was really intoxicating to people. Now, we're almost in an era that's post that.

So both the Batman and Superman are both kind of movies that are about all of this stuff with Batman and Superman in it. Right. We need a movie that's assure of itself rather than the things. I'm not saying that it doesn't work. I'm saying that it does work, but I'm just saying that because of that point, James Gunn isn't going to fuck around with the script. He's not going to fuck around with the script.

He's going to write the script. He's going to have an octopus, choke a baby in the script. And he's going to hope that you think that that's funny. And he's going to put that in there, and then he's, they're going to go. This is not his grand statement. Like, I don't think the Superman sequel is going to be like, this is like, I know, like, it's not to me probably going to be his Dark Night.

I mean, the thing that I'm actually interested in is is Superman a type of character and did Superman do the type of thing where it's like, okay, this movie made 700, if we come out with a sequel right away, we can turn Superman into a billion dollar character or is it just going to be more like, this is going to be a really, really good movie.

It's going to make more than the first. But like the Batman part two sequel just has a higher ceiling just because that's a more popular character. Maybe, but ultimately, like, again, after five years, like, what kind of guess is there? And then you have the question that we've been asking for the last couple years is, is this the same, this is not the same Batman that's in the DCU? So then who's the DCU Batman, right? Because we're going to go to watch Bronn Parvarez's Batman, part two, we're going to go,

wow, this is great. This is awesome. After seeing three Superman movies now. Then where do they go from there? I think the Matt Reeves, I think the, I think the, actual thing that's going to happen is I think the Superman movie the Superman sequel is going to do really, really well. And then the Batman part two is going to be like so beloved and so good.

And people like, oh, we get why he, uh, like it took so long. And then the real fight of just like, okay, what happens when both of these things are successful? And I'm thinking about it, man. I think the most reasonable course of action and maybe I'm a cynic, maybe I'm just being negative. Maybe I'm hating. I don't know. Is that Superman comes out, Batman Part 2 comes out, James Guns go, hey man, guys, that was a great movie. It made all this money.

People loved it. You're not getting another one. Wrap your shit up. It's my friend. It's me. I don't think, here's the thing. If the Batman Part 2 makes a boatload of money, I don't think anyone is going to take it away from him. Like, I just don't, because I'm like trying to convince people to start over with a new Batman

and then having to take another two or three years at that, I just think they're going to be like, hey, yo, Patinson, just get into the fucking deal. You, Gunn has people behind the scenes being like, start writing a couple of another Batman scripts. Like, just start tooling around with it. Okay, so then you're like, hey, you come over to our sign? Like, hey, you part of our team? I think that's the issue, though, is that Matt Reeves and them don't want that.

Here's the thing. Matt Reeves, even the universe. That's why he's probably like, Matt Reeves, you got two movies. And I think Robert Pattinson is probably like, damn, they're about to cut the check of all checks. I got to go. I think the leverage will be important here. And so the leverage.

will be Clayface and Supergirl. If James Gunn is walking around the town, like he is the man, and Warner Brothers continues to be the studio of note, and they continue their winning streak, and he's going to have the leverage to say, we need to consolidate the Batman character. It just doesn't work.

It doesn't make sense in the marketplace. But if Clayface and Supergirl don't do what they do, or they're just modest successes, do you think it becomes harder? it does become harder because what the studio is not going to want to do is stop a sure thing, which the Batman 2 seems to be. They're not going to want to stop a short thing. But there's a creative, this is the stuff.

What's happening right now in front of us with this character, and people think that we make too much of a big deal about it, I'm telling you guys we don't. What's happening right now with this character is the stuff that people put in their memoirs when they write them 30, 40 years from now. When they go, hey, this is what was happening. when they're about to check out of the business or check out of this planet and they write their memoirs, you know, like the kid stays in the picture, all these other great memoirs

from these great producers. They're talking about making these films. This is the stuff that we learn. We learn about, there's a chapter called The Battle for Batman. You know what I mean? You learn about how the back and forth was going here. But there's no way possible that James Gunn and his side of it don't want to consolidate the character.

He wants the character in his universe. And whatever you get in his universe will be a diminished version of Reeves' Batman if Reeves' Batman is sensational. You don't want that measuring stick. You don't. You don't want that you, I mean, you don't mind that your girl has an ex, but you don't want him living in your crib. You know what I'm saying?

Sure. You don't want him like right there all the time. And if the Batman Part 2 is phenomenal, it does force everybody's hand to be like, well, you got to make a good. There's almost no way that it isn't, right? It would be a really odd miss for the movie not to be fantastic. Yeah. I still doubt that it comes out.

That comes out? You really don't think that the part two is coming out. It's going to come out. It has to come out. It's going to come out. It's going to come out. It's going to be great. We're going to be like, man, it's going to make $750 million.

And then Jay's going to be like, hey, thanks for coming, guys. I would be surprised if it makes a billy. I would not be surprised. Yeah. Well, Batman movies that aren't making a billion dollars right now. our failures. I mean, the Batman,

the first Batman didn't make a billion. Yeah, it made like 7.30. But that was a little COVID. There was 22. Yeah. I wouldn't say

that that's a failure is two things. Number one, I do give, how about this, Batman's sequels now that come out that don't make a billion,

I consider that to be a failure. 722 million. And just like, that's a billion dollar movie character. And it, he, you really,

really, once you reorient the audience to the new look and to the character, the movie that you build on, you should make a billion dollars. Batman and Spider-Man. I'm about saying Spider-Man. Yeah, but here's the thing. If you make a billion dollars

on the next Batman movie, every exact above James Gunn is just like, there's just no way. There's no way we're punting on this. No, no, no, no, no. Which makes such an interesting internal Spider-Man-esque war between things that are inside of your own studio.

Yeah, instead of like Sony versus... Yeah, because Sony actually has, a grip on Spider-Man's rights for the foreseeable future until they stop making those movies. It's a copro with Marvel, but now this is like this weird arms race between who can do the better Batman movie, and we're just waiting

for you to make a bad one before it turns over to James Gunn. I think the thing that's frustrated me with this whole thing is it just delays like the inevitable Justice League movie that we're supposed to get at some point, right? Like that's the whole reason for the operation. I don't think James Gunn is interested in justice. Yeah. And that's dumb.

I don't think maybe at this point, even watching Peacemaker, I'm like, I don't think James Gunn is interested. I thought this was lip service at first at marching towards a big story at all. I like think he actually likes all of these pockets. And he's not the man for the job.

Well, he has to. You can't. He has to at some point. I don't think that it's like he is interested in a Justice League movie in the next five, six, seven years. Maybe it'll be announced, but I don't. I don't know. We don't got Wonder Woman. We don't got

Batman, we don't got a flash, we don't got. I mean, I don't think it happened in like the next three years, but again, like, in like five years in 2030, if we're still here, uh, and there's like, there's no, like, sign him, no justice league movie, come on, man. The purpose of, at some point, he's got to put all the characters on the screen together. I mean, no, no, he will. Yeah. I just don't think he's in a rush to do it.

He might not be. And it's just like, that's probably why I think, like, the Batman movie will come out. It'll be successful. Matt Reeves is going to be tired and be like, I'm tired of fighting. Patton said is going to sign a big fat. fucking check and they're going to be like, hey, yo, you know what? Someone else write the third movie, we're putting Batman and Superman together. Like, it just got.

Yeah. Look, if there's going to be no Batman for James Gunn's DCU, we'll move on to peacemaker, get some quick peacemaker thoughts and then get into Mental Wars. But if there's going to be no Batman for James Guns DCU, there needs to be a character that can stand in for him in terms of story. in Gravitas. He needs to create a Batman. He needs to put somebody on screen

and maybe that'll be Air Pierre's Green Lantern. Maybe that'll be, I don't know, it's not going to be booster gold. He needs to put somebody on screen. Plastic man. He needs to put somebody on screen besides Superman. And maybe that's Emilio Alcox's Supergirl.

Maybe that'll be the character. He needs to put somebody on screen besides Superman that can deliver a one-two punch to the DCU. He does. He needs more than just that world. And they keep talking about Gotham. And we're going to Gotham. That is so weird.

We're going to Gotham in Clayton. How many shots across the bow do you think Superman's sequel's going to have? We're going right to Gotham and Clayface. And just, you know, it's... We got a Gotham mention is Superman and Peacemaker. There's the fucking, the Clayface photos that are leaking. Those are subliminals, guys. Those are JZ subliminals.

Those are Disses. I promise you. Sneak is. He sneaked this. That's him ratcheting up the pressure here. He does not have to be that deliberate about that. Gotham, got them, got them, got them, got them. He's letting you guys know, hey, my world has a Batman.

Right. And like you guys, it's okay to wait for Batman because my world has a Batman. I can't control everything that's going on here. But you guys want Batman, I can give you Batman. I can give you Batman right now. But what's so funny is if the rumors are true with Matt Roald. Reeves putting Robin in this movie. It's so funny because the rumors was that we were going to get an older Batman with Damien

Wayans. It'd be so funny. Matt Reeves is like, fuck your Robin. I just rub that shit right into it. I don't want this Batman to have a Robin. No. I want to see it. He's terrible.

He's going to get enough family, man. No, that's why I like you. Robin come in, gunshot wound. That man goes, you failed me. You lie. You lie. You lie. What that's the fuck you going on?

It's so funny. Oh, but, hey, Robert Patton is at the age. Rob Pat's is what, 40? Is he 40? Yeah, but I mean, this Batman of that movie has only been Batman for like a year change. So, like, having a Robin like that early is. Oh, we're doing a time jump.

We definitely doing a time jump. Well, yeah, after 30 years since he got the last movie. There's going to be a light skin Robin running around. Yeah, we do that. A light skin rob. Yeah, Zoe Criders is going to be like, go with you there. Yeah, we do a time job. Let's going to.

There's definitely. We're doing a time jump. Man. We're going to come back and everything going to be different. The Joker's going to be dead. He died in prison. Great.

Joker died on his way back. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue. Ice cream drips.

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Peacemaker. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Peacemaker. Real quick. We got to get to Mantle Wars. episode two episode two episode three reactions

from peacemaker from everybody I love being right that's what I got to say I love being right oh what's that now when I said we can flashback we insert here in episode one when we did episode one I was like

I think the jarhead is going to be Rick Flagg and then fast forward to episodes it's Rick Flagg Jr I like this episode I thought that like opening with their They had like this little side little relationship was interesting. I think that's going to come back, obviously.

But to see like Chris be like a hero in Agilated for once, I don't know. It felt kind of good. I kind of, I'm not going to say like I see completely where he's coming from. But after seeing this character just get like shit on for like a season and change to see him like do the right thing and get love for it was really nice. I found it to be a uniquely and oddly profound episode of television. Yeah. Really? Yeah.

It has its spots of like really being genius. Again, Johnson is really leveling up in the show to me because he's got this very good way of like trying to. There's a caution in his performance in this episode because he knows that he's like trying to not step on the dominoes that are this new dimension. and he's trying to socially work around who these people are to the old peacemaker and what he is to them. Because he's trying to talk to Harcourt in a way that's like familiar but not overly braggadocious

or like he's trying to like understand what this is. And he's like playing along with these people. So one thing I enjoyed about it was this was probably in all the peacemaker stuff that I've seen how can I say this? This was the most potent display of why he's good at stuff. So little things. When he's leaving and he's talking to his brother

and he has to figure out where he has to go and what he needs to draw. Oh, yeah, pop quiz. Like where he has to go. That's just him using a little subterfuge. It's him using a little, like that's how you would glean information. like Peacemaker knows what he's doing. And then at the end, in the episode when he's there and he has to defuse the bomb,

and he realizes he looks up, oh, my God, there's where they're probably hiding out. This is how I need to get in. And he seemed competent. Right. Yeah. Like for a second and like in control. And maybe that's because if you take that character, which is kind of a profound statement on like all of us. maybe you have a perfectly good person

that's like in the wrong world. Yeah. That is in a world where they weren't loved, where they weren't appreciated, where they were treated violently, and everything that they used as a response to that actually makes for a really capable person, but that they can't get past the trauma of that situation.

He can't get past the trauma of his father, of his on-again, off-again thing with hardcore, of him not being like accepted by a judge. this gang. He can't get past all of those feelings. So we never really get to see his true potential. But in this other world where he's loved, where things aren't as desperate, he's more confident, he's more direct, he's more heroic. And I was like, huh. When you look at the episode in its totality, I'm like, that's actually, they're actually kind of making a profound little observation here. I really, I dug it. But it's also, think about this, the way that they talked about

the prior peacemaker in this episode about he's back on the pills, he's a dickhead to hard court, and this is a bit of like an apology and like him tiptoeing around it. It makes me think, I'm like, okay,

well, how would have this other peacemaker have handled that hostage situation? Would people have died? Would he have not cared? Would he have been a bit more like, like reckless with the amount of things? Because he has all of these things in his back pocket.

He has a family that he doesn't need to like worry about, like, he had to be precious about losing his brother because he's already there. It's an interesting reflection about how the nicer version of that character could come from the worst part of his life. I think you see the reflection of the old peacemaker in

Rick Flagg Jr. in, like, who she's dating now. Who's, like, very bookish and, like... And meek. And, you know, when you make the joke, like, you know, you date somebody, you have a bad experience, and then you go all the way, the opposite direction. That's literally what it looks like. And so that, like, while that Rick Flag, again,

bookish, like kind of shy, kind of just like not all the way there versus the peacemaker who like we assume is just like just like just standing there, big tall, just going to let everybody know how buff, how smart and all the stuff is. And you're like, wow, this is interesting. Like we don't get to actually see that guy for unless like until he dies in the first episode. But we do kind of know who he was in this universe with all the stuff that they laid out. No, we're eventually going to, I mean, the story is telegraphing itself a little bit. Sure.

Because we see some things in this episode. This hardcore is a little bit more of a damsel in distress, right? She does work for August, but at the same time, our hardcore from our prime universe, as soon as she saw that going on, she would have sprung into action with peacemaker. This one does it. Very deliberate decision. Not only does she not go with him or try to help him at all, she might have been first to get busy when she saw how everything is.

was going down. When he comes down, she cries, and she hugs him. So she's in a little bit more of, I don't even want to say Louis Lane, but a traditional, almost antique female, Frigible character lady. He, I'm just, I'm just, I mean, not this episode,

but, yes. But, like, it, but he likes that. Now, now he likes it. Now he likes it. Now he likes a relationship with his brother. now he likes being the hero. Now he likes all of this. What will happen to make him realize that this isn't really him?

Because to your point, the other peacemaker has all of this stuff, and he's still kind of fucked up. Yeah. Pills, all of this stuff. He's still off the real. So there's something there that's not quite feeding him, and will that start to not quite feed the version of Chris that we know? Do we know if Prime Hardcourt knows,

that Chris killed Rick Flag? She must not. She must not. Couldn't have. Because they were a little side piece in the beginning. They were sidepiece in the beginning. I remember Argus was hiding those files even from the Big Dog from... Wait, was the Flash back?

That was our universe? That was our universe because he was about to deploy to the Suicide Squad movie. And he was talking about entranthus. Because remember at the end of the... Which means that that first suicide squad is still came. Cannon too. Which is very weird. Who else?

This is so crazy. No, it is. Yeah. He left to me. He was hurt and seen Tentress. And so I'm interested, like, okay, if she doesn't know, I assume Rick Flaxen is going to be like, hey, your boy is out there

while and you see how that comes back. But guys, three of us have been chatting up a storm. Charles, do you have any thoughts about episode three of Peacemaker? Yeah, she's not my favorite James Gunn. It's not that copy. It's just like this mode is not. I kind of just bounce off. And I thought it was like an enjoyable enough episode.

But I do think that like I'm noticing James Gunn can write one main character. And they, and I think peacemaker Clark, Clark Kent and Peter Quill are starting to be too similar to me. And I'm just kind of wondering when we can maybe get a little bit of a differentiation. In Nax, I'm just like, oh, I feel like I've seen this story before. But that's an unfair critique to me. I mean, those guys are all kind of in the same archetype. But I also think that, like, it doesn't stop there. I think hardcore is essentially Gamora.

Yeah. She's Gamora. Oh, yeah. No, I think so everything is Guardians of the Galaxy. No, but it is. I mean, not in the suicide squad because he didn't have the same. But this group, our group, yeah? Yeah.

Our group, like our group of the guardians. A lovable group of losers. that come together to save the day. That's like what he writes. That's how he writes. No, no. And I think that that's fine. It's just that like we got Superman this year and we got peacemaker in a very, very short amount of time.

And I'm just like, oh, so this is about man children with very confident love interests who don't think that they need them and part of their journey. It's just like. With identity issues and parents. Yeah. And I'm just like, no, no, no, I understand. Iron Man. Right. You guys are worn on.

It's the same thing. No, yeah. Like that right there, like Iron Man, that's the same character. No, but here's the thing. When we got the movies, Iron Man was not Cap, was not Thor, like, was not Hulk. And I just think that because this is the Kevin Faggy of this universe is James Gunn, the director, the writer, when we get stuff at this clip, I'm just like, oh, okay, yeah, you kind of have one central idea and the like themes and stuff that you're really, really interesting. interested in. And at some points, I'm like, oh, this kind of just seems a little bit like you're regurgitating a lot of it. Which is, yeah, it's funny. It's funny to me, because I agree.

But I think I see that sameness in all of these characters. Like, all the time, I'm so happy that they didn't do Black Panther as the Prince Boy King who couldn't grow up. Yes. I was so happy that they didn't do that. I mean, the characters never been portrayed like that. But that was kind of the arc for so many of these other characters besides like cap. But yeah, James Gunn, and you wonder if, and that's why Clayface and Supergirl will be a big deal, you wonder if the DCU might be, at least at this point for some people like Charles maybe, falling into the same kind of Snyderverse trap where there's such a distinct tone across all of the stuff that you're getting

that if you don't like that, then you don't like any of it. Which was something that Marvel was incredibly good at because Thor is essentially a petulant boy king who can't grow up. But the movie was directed by Kenneth Brahma.

Shakespeare. So being that it was directed by Kenneth Brana, the tone of that was told in a different way. And so you're getting very similar themes from your adult heroes, you have to grow up and be serious and there's a woman

a love interest that's going to help you do it. But you don't get it with the same beats and the same jokes, which might weigh you down if you don't like it. And I think what happened when the Avengers released, whereas like oh, some of these characters are a little samey because they're all superhero comic books, the tropes are baked into

the genre. What Avengers helped you do is be like, no, no, no, no, but this is fundamentally the difference between somebody like Tony and Cap or Tony and Thor. Or like, they did a good job early in that universe. To your point, that's probably why you need a Batman to go toe to toe to with Superman, where

you're like, we need someone or a character or a director or a writer in this world that is not James Gunn, who could be like, okay, this is something else. Even though it's in the same universe, I'm giving you another flavor. And all of this stuff still seems like flavors off the James Gunn tree.

I got to say that my girl was back. Soror Rodriguez. Oh, boy. Bordeaux. Bordeaux is crazy, man. You know how crazy Bordeaux was? She was struggling with somebody with something that dialogue, and I didn't get it.

She didn't get. Boy, boy, boy. He's like, yes, you will go into the van. Those were some truthful hips. All right. She was coming through, man. That scene was funny as hell. When they were like,

and Michael Rooker was there, they were going to kill Eagley. Yeah. And it was like, see, that to me. Crazy fit from Michael Rooker. That to me is when gun is. is like really, really funny. When he's casting Michael Rooker?

When he's casting Michael Rooker, the guy goes, hey, I'm not doing this. And she goes, he goes, I'm out. And she goes, okay, you're fired. And he goes, I'm in. That's funny. Yeah, it's just quick. That was funny to me.

But if you stay in that scene for another three minutes. With the fucking bird blindness joke again. If you stay in that scene for another three minutes, that's kind of not the deal. But I really, really enjoyed this episode. Anything that kind of gives me intrigued about the journey of peacemaker as a character. This gave him a little bit more of a dynamic to me. Rick Flagg was back like that.

Joe Kinnaman. Shout out. Joe Keniman. He's great. He's honestly great. I love him and almost everything he's in. I bet you do. He's great.

He's like a... What was that? Alter Carver was cool. Because Joe Kenanman. is kind of like... Okay. So, somebody said one thing to me that's very funny.

Okay. You know that little cartoon that I have is my avatar? A little cartoon that the guy, a little comic, but my little avatar on Twitter. On Twitter. Yeah.

Oh. And so somebody said to me, they said, Van, I love you. But that avatar of you is kind of what comes out after you take the substance.

Which is very true. The substance, not the Super Soldier Serum. Not a substance. Joe Kinneman is kind of... Me on the substance? Yeah. That's probably Steve Rogers' Super Soldier Serum. Probably that Super Soldier Serum.

That's Steve, Joe Kinneman. All right, all white people don't look that alike. I don't feel like Joe Kinneman looks that one. He looked... I want you guys to do this right now. They put up... We should put up a... 200 pounds of muscle right now.

Make me six four. Joe Kinneman is... That's hard, Steve. Right. Steve, look at him. Look them up right now. Look them up, Jomey. Tell me that's not, that's hard Steve, man. That's hard. No. That's hard Steve. That's hard. That's hard. I mean, thank you. If that's what you think I look like that. I don't think so. That's hard. Thank you. I'm not why people do look alike, but I don't know. That's hard Steve, man. Okay, I changed

I don't. Joel Kinneman, that's hard Steve. That's hard. I'm going to take this as a compliment. That's hard. That's hard. That's hard. That's hard Steve right there. I want you to get you on the juice a little bit. There was a movie in the 80s before we get to Mounted Wars. There was a movie in the 80s called Hunk. You ever seen this movie? I don't know, and I'm sure it's very unproblematic. Oh, Hunk was problematic and shit.

It had to be. Look up Hunk, Hunk movie. 1987, okay. It was about this guy who... John Allen Nelson... He was a regular dude or something, but then he became a hunk. So he makes a girlfriend. He lopes with their aerobics instructor.

He's basically Tom Brady. Yeah, but then he takes something or he... goes, he drinks something or he makes a wish and he becomes a hunk, a hunky guy. Okay. Stephen Joel Kinneman. Wow.

Wow. Okay. So if I made the deal with the devil to, okay. Yeah, that's your hunk version. We all have a hunk version. Charles's is, I mean, Jommies is, Winston Duke.

Okay. I take that. I'll take that. I'm with that. Okay. Okay. Jomeys is, Joe's, who's Charles? Who's Charles is,

whose Charles is, who's Charles is, tongue version. I got to think about this. It's probably Jesse Smolett. No, I was just joking. All right. It's Zach Cherry. Take that out. Oh, no, what? It's Zach Fox. Zach Fox?

What was he in? Zackettlementary. Zach's Fox. Mine is LeBron, probably. Oh, what? Get out of here. Let's get to fucking Mantle Wars. Mantle Wars. Wait, before we get to Mantle Wars, guys, we're going to take a very, very, very very quick.

commercial break. All right, we are back with Mantle Wars. Can you please describe what we're doing for the people? A lot of actors have played a lot of roles, guys. A lot of mantles have been passed over the years. How many different Batman are there? How many different Spider-Man? How many different Wonderwomen? How many different Lex Luthers? How many different people have played the roles? But the question is, who is the true Iron Man? We obviously know. Who is the true Spider-Man? Who is the true Lex Luthor, who is the true Superman, who is the true Batman, and in what rank are these people? Who has the mantle? These are mantle wars.

All right. So first up, we have Batman. Wow. Now, I'm just going to list some of the actors, and then let's go around, we'll nominate. Anybody who's played Batman in live action? In live action. So we have Michael Keaton, George Clooney, Val Kimmer, Christian Bail, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson, and then a TV web, Adam West.

We're not going to pick him, but shout out, honorable mention, Kevin Conroy, Batman animated series, rest of peace, legendary run. All right. There's also other Batman, but those are the big ones. I already know I'm nominating Christian Bill. I think Christian Bill is Batman. Christian Bill is Batman. Is Batman. Christian Bell is your Batman.

Christian Bell. Wowserly Woe. Talk to us. All right. So I think when I was researching all of the Batman last night, I was like, we have to talk about quality of performance, quality of movie, and then also like length of run. Where I think a lot of people have been like they've been Batman for two movies

or they've been Batman in five or six and all six of them are bad. And then the two of them are really, really good, but you only did two. I think Christian Bale has a mixture of everything where I'm just like, like you have the best Batman movie. I think you have the one that is most celebrated. I think it is honestly between him and Keaton at this point. And I give the edge to bail because if we're being honest, he also ushered in him and I put him and Robert Downey Jr.

together as the two actors who really ushered in this age of superhero storytime. Okay. So it's Keaton to me. Okay. And I'll tell you why. first of all, his portrayal of Batman is just better. This is not true. Christian Bell's actual portrayal of Batman

to me has not aged very well. Rachel. What I do? It defines me. Where is it? So I could make an argument that Christian Bell doesn't nail Bruce Wayne or Batman.

This is no. His Bruce Wayne is really good. I think his Bruce Wayne is better than Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne. I don't think that it is. I think that his Bruce, I think that his Bruce Wayne is shockingly,

first of all, Christian Bell is badass, the movies are great. Yes. And the movies are great in large part because of things that don't have very much

to do with Batman. In large part, like I could make an argument that literally you had at least two villains, straight eat him up in terms of take the movie from him because they had much more compelling

like portrayals of who they are. This is not a disproachial. And I can make the argument where I think my problem with the Keaton Batman movies, even though I love them so much, because all of the performances are kind of keyed up, Keaton's, fifers, everyone. It gets a little wacky,

and that's exactly what Burton wanted. I think with bail, what he does a great job of is because Joker and Bain specifically are operating at such a key, he's almost centering the movie where it's always coming back to something that feels realistic, that feels honed, that I can like emotionally

grab onto because I'm like, bail, I'm just like, oh, I'm in good hands. This is never going to be, like, to me, bail never has as corny of a moment as patents in the fucking hospital with Alfred, where I'm like, all right, you tip over into. That's peak. Well, I'll say, I'll say,

this, though. All of that's true. But the movie, those movies to me, are significantly less interesting when Batman's on screen. They are. Batman and Joker in the interrogation

room? Batman and Bain fighting? When I say when I say on, so let me tell you what I mean. The best Joker scenes in that movie, a lot of the best Joker scenes in that movie, Batman and Ninnum. right and and I'm not by the way this is not an indictment of the I just don't think

Bail's Batman Bill's Batman is a great straight man to the other characters and everything else that's going on in the world he's a great straight man but like you know it is there's not there's a lot of scenes there that are awesome there are a lot of things there that are awesome as I watch the movies, sometimes I look at his Batman and I go, it's kind of a boring Batman. He's kind of like... Climbing out of the pit while

they're chanting. Yeah, I mean, it's really... Like, like, that's classic shit. You have a point where, like, he is engulfed by the villains of these movies where, like, this is kind of like the vehicle for, like, the big, earth-shattering, great villain performance.

And he's borderline in our audience surrogate of, like, we are taking this journey with him and there isn't really a dichotomy of what you can see between the persona of Batman, the persona of Bruce Wayne and why this is something to fear and this is something that he has to pretend to be and relate to and like pretend to be a person. And there are other portrayals of that which might be a bit more exaggerated. And like I think when we talk about a couple of other ones, I think Bale's portrayal of Bruce Wayne is very much a character

that he has played prior maybe a bit subdued whereas Keaton I feel like is Keaton's flavor of both like comedy and a bit of like madcap wittiness The character actually has some pizzazz Yeah, because it's just Michael Keith

You want Michael Keatheed but it's The character actually has some pizzazz The character has like Bales Batman Bails Bruce Wayne never in any way he barely crashed a smile I understand

I didn't let me finish he he he's in he's in he's criminally earnest in every single thing it's like they you ask him a question

he gives you a monologue like there's there are times in Batman begins where it's him and Lucius and there's some interplay and all that sure and it's cool but like

he's kind of a drag as Batman Like those movies are fantastic, but you're having the least amount of fun to me when you're with that character. I think I would kind of still give it a little bit more of an edge to bail only because... Everybody's going to go bail. But to me, it's like the idea that when Bruce Wayne

is being Bruce Wayne, that is a drag. Not just to him, but to the world around him. That, like, he's got to be this face of a thing that he doesn't even really believe in and he just wants to be something else. Ultimately, I think we're on the right track. I'm leading bail, but I think it was between Pekina Bell, and I think the thing that suited for me is like just when I like,

when I close my eyes and I'm like, when I imagine Batman, who do I see? I see Christian Bail. But that's also because you guys were too young. But I've seen. Right, yeah. My appreciation is for Mantle Wars, what are we rewarding? Because that is also before we continue is, are we rewarding the best portrayal of the character,

the most iconic, the most influential? Is it a mixture of all of them? Well, I can, so I can agree. So this is the thing. Michael Keaton is my Batman, but Christian Bail is Batman, and I can understand that. Right.

I honestly think if I was to rank guys who have played Batman, even since 2000, well, not since 2000. Maybe, but if I was to rank the guys that play Batman, just the character, the guys, I think the Ben Affleck's Batman.

I really see. I really see the time about Apple. Same. I think that Ben Affleck's Batman is like a head of Christian Bales. All right. Let's slow now. Let him cook. Performance wise.

I'm going with you here. Movies are ass cheap, but I agree. But I think he's, I think he's, I think he's better. I think he, like, even. I'll give you this. He doesn't have this when Alfred and him are arguing about, like, when Alfred finds out what the white Portuguese is and he finds it's a kryptonite and he's one to use it against Superman, it's not a nuke. and he says, if there's even 1% chance that he's our enemy, we have to take it as absolute certainty.

I guess he doesn't, I don't think Christian Bell has a scene like that as Bruce Wayne in those movies. I'll give you another see. Like, part of Bruce Wayne's, the Gotham that Christian that Christopher Nolan creates, everyone in Gotham would have known that Batman is Bruce Wayne.

Everyone would have known. Because the dude is, like, he didn't hide it well. One random guy finds out. I know that there are certain scenes where he's trying to be like a playboy. It never works. It doesn't. It does it.

The suave sort of man about town that bad man, it never, it never works. It never works. It's actually, that's why when he comes back as like an old miser because he's gotten like 50 years older and five years. Yeah. By the time Dark Night Rises comes out, that's kind of, it never works. Do you think what that's why Matt Reeves totally was just like we're not even doing the Playboy? because it's just such a hard thing to fucking land. Well, Matt Reeves is back.

You can imagine the character in all different types of ways. And by the way, you know, Bruce Wayne doesn't have to be, for the Matt Reeves' world Batman that he has, that Batman works completely, right? The Brill is a serial killer in that world. So that works fine. And all of these films are related to these different worlds, right? They are. But I just think the most comprehensive Batman that I've seen since Keaton is Affleck because he goes back and forth between, the guy who is like talking shit to to catwoman where he's actually trying to charm her

like Bail's Batman isn't charming at all all right so where he's actually trying to charm her sure and he's talking to her and she's like the whole interplay of you I've known a couple of women like you blah blah blah when he's at the thing where he's watching the guys fight at the and he's and he gives the guy to tip and then he's talking to to KG Beast and he's being charming he's yeah it's the entire deal like that that whole thing it he's he's he's confident yeah yeah like he's he's that's bruce way he has a whole thing but his whole life isn't down tried and cumbersome by the tremendous weight of what it is that he's doing he's doing what he's doing because he wants to do it right right and so but that it that is patinson's batman to a tea though like that's his bruce

wayne because he's just nothing but like dower and weighted down He's Kurt Cobain if he knew Corey. Exactly. And he's only been doing it for a year then. But the fact that Afflex got the sauce as Bruce Wayne is kind of undeniable. And the Netflix Batman was by far, like, while it was... Well, a murderous Batman, for sure. It was actually boring and really not fun at all to watch Christian Bale's Batman fight.

There was some kind of bad fight scenes. Some really bad fight, choreo? Like, seriously. The suit's tough. You know what I mean? The whole really bad fight quarrel, by the time, and this is what Zach's good at, by the time Zach got to it, he had figured out. Man, that is, man, it's, that warehouse scene is incredible. He killed 12 guys.

Yeah. That, he murdered, I mean, he murdered all of us to the face. I don't know that he killed anybody in the warehouse. Are you kidding me? Some guys blew up, but they threw those. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he throws a crate at a dude's face. And his head dim here explodes. And there's blood off the law.

Well, if that's the case. This is what I always wonder about Batman and Captain America, too. Captain America won't shoot you in the head, but he'll kick the shit out of you hard. At the beginning of the winner, he'll kick him off the boat. Like, yeah. And so, I mean, we could argue that Bail's Batman. Anyway, we're getting, we're getting, right?

So if we're going to do, let's do a winner and runner up. It seems like the winner is probably bail, runner up Keaton. Yeah. Yeah. Ben Affleck is my personal kick for runner up? I could give runner up to that. You can't, you can't really go. one up to Affleck.

It has to be key. It has to be key. It's very disrespectful. But I would say that in this one, all of these, I'm going to have a heart pick. And my heart pick is the most comprehensive Batman I've seen on screen. Sure. It's Ben Affleck.

Let me tell you, if we had even one good Ben Affleck Batman movie, we would be having a probably different conversation. I have a quick question. If we had gotten like the Batman part two earlier or something like that, would we have a, different conversation in regards to Robert Pattinson. I don't know because that requires growth. That Batman is like it has nowhere to go but up.

His handle on Bruce Wayne for Patinson can, like Pattinson has the range to be this confident playboy. Like he was, he was a heartthrob for like a near generation of people to be this kind of thing where he's just this like downtrodden, like really sad in all aspects. And like the only place that he's like this not sad, sad little kid is when he puts on that Batman suit to jump.

That nigger still sad. I understand. And they can beat up those people like, who are you? He didn't even say, I am Batman. It was too good for him. I'm putting my stake on it. I think the Batman part two is not only going to be great. I think by the end of his run of Batman,

if James gone stops being a hater, he might be like, I think he's got something incredible. Honestly, I didn't see anything in the first. But he's still early. I didn't see anything in the first. Would you, after Batman begins, would you have been like, like, get this guy out? There was a big-

By the end of that movie, that's the, I'm so glad you asked that. Because that's the saving grace of that movie. Well, not the saving grace. That movie's awesome. But that's the most important thing about that movie. That movie did something that's really important for a reinvention of a comic book movie to do. The movie starts off, and you kind of don't buy anything. You don't buy Christian Bill as Batman.

You don't buy the Batmobile. Because when we first saw the Batmobile, we were like, what the fuck, how could that be the Batmobile? It's a bridge building tank. Yeah, like when they first, before the movie came out, you don't buy none of this stuff. By the end of it, you buy it all. By the end of it, he has claimed the mantle of Batman.

That is Batman. He has become Batman. And the coolest scene and the whole thing is, I don't have to kill you, but I'm not going to save him. That's like, that type of stuff. He is also a murderer. Intergrading all the League of Shadow shit, he learned in the fucking fucking...

All that. Yeah. They, they, they, they, they, they, build, that is truly the beginning of a Batman. They build Batman throughout that movie and you believe it. Before we move on, any love for Val Kilmer

or George Kilkitt. I think Kilmer had... I got my bad card somewhere. Kilmer had a little bit of juice as Bruce Wayne that I actually quite enjoyed. Like, I know those movies are bad and but it's like... Batman forever isn't that bad? I give, I'd give Kilmer

like some love over over Kluing. I don't know what that was. I mean, the actual thing that I was thinking of where I was just like, oh, the best performance of Batman, and this is the only time I think a lot of people are going to be like, what about you're talking about Spider-Man, but not that animated Spider-Man? Oh, no, fuck. No. I think that Batman, the animated series, is the rare cartoon where like a voice, a voice acting performance actually kind of solidifies the character in a lot of people's minds where it's like, when I'm reading a Batman comic nine times that. I hear his voice. I hear the Batman animated series voice.

I don't hear bail or Keaton or app, which I think is very, very interesting, which does not happen in any other thing. Because you read the comic book. It's a cartoon. No, but still,

I don't hear Tom Holland's voice is Spider-Man. I know, but it's like, it's, it's, there's, I'm not about to get in here and like have a conversation

about a beloved, amazing, pastaway actor. It's totally different. Sure. But it's like, I feel like if we, allowed that, I feel like that

would be just a fight for second place, in my opinion. It's totally different. Because like you have it, there's it's, first of all, you're looking at Batman as a cartoon. He's being drawn as you see him in the comic books. It's, first of all, it's easier to connect to that. That is just the barrier of entry

to that is just much, much lower. I think that's very, but I think ultimately to Charles's point, like, he did it for how many years, man? Yeah, for ever. 30 plus. Yeah, it's usually video games. Which, by the way another advantage because if you are an actor that is playing that role, you can't do it for that long. You can't do it for that long because

you're not going to hold up your voice. Like your voice can change. There's more chances. It's just totally different. Totally different. All right. Catwoman. Next up. We have in the movies, Michelle Pfeiffer, Holly Berry, Ann Hathaway, Zobie Kravitz, and then Julie Numar, Eartha Kit. I think this is

easily... Just a lay it. It's like easily just a second place conversation because Michelle Pfeiffer's top pick. My No? No, no. I'm let you.

My runner up easily would be Ann Hathaway. Yeah. Easily be in Hathaway. Yeah, I got something very fucked up to say. What? What? Anne Hathaway was a better cat woman than Michelle Pfeiffer was.

I can't. She was pretty incredible. She was. She was not as iconic. Not as like, like, like, not as good of a suit. Not as like, No.

You guys are going to be mad at me for saying this too. I'm like, Michelle, like Catwoman to me is like sex appeal personified. And I feel like Michelle Fiper played that way better than Anne Hathaway did.

Anne Hathaway is like sexy because she's in Hathaway, but she did not have what Michelle Fifer has. Yeah, but there's like a capital A acting that goes into what she did for Selena Kyle that like I kind of am blown away by to this day. But she's kind of just like,

In addition to that movie. But it's the duplicity of Selena Kyle that makes Catwoman so cool. And she does that completely. When the building's getting fucked over by those bank robbers, I can't remember the bad guys. And she's like pretending to be scared and shit. And like she just immediately fucking walks out.

Completely confident. Her and Bain are the best part of that movie. Like they, you know, like she really is fucking amazing. I mean, there's a, like a sexiness. that cat woman's gotta have. She has to, you have to believe that, oh, yeah, I'm folding. When she show up, I'm doing whatever she asks.

I'm Batman. I'm supposed to be, like, holding the law. But when she come through, ah, you know, sometimes things are going to happen. I believe that with Michelle Fiver. When she was on screen, when she's doing a whip, I'm like, hey, Batman, whatever you went to, hey, man, you go do that, brother. I'm going to turn another eye. Yeah.

I don't really see that with, eh, not that she didn't do her. She didn't do it with Zoe Kravitz. Zoe Kravitz. Pretty good. I think Zoe Kravis was the wrong actress to play Catwell. Really? I think she was fine in the movie. I think she was fine in it. I have, like, Zoe Kravis, it's a very talented individual. I just think it was, I was like,

you didn't get there. I thought she was by far the best-looking, sexiest catwoman. I don't know if she's ever looked better. She looked fantastic. She looks great all the time. She looks great. Performance-wise. I think the same problems I have with her catwoman in terms of being iconic is the same problems I have with his Batman as being iconic. They just die versions of the character.

They're not really Catwoman and Batman. They are. They are. But we just didn't get enough, we haven't had enough time with them to get to know them to where they can really fall into those roles like that. To me, that was a very Frank Miller -esque Batman year one version of a Selena Kyle where it is

like, leaning less on the superhero angle of it and more on the cat burglar crime family part, which is just like, is cool. And I think that was a smart choice to do. It's just like if we're talking about when I see Catwoman, I don't see Anne Hathaway.

I don't see Zoe Kravitz. Either I see Michelle Pfeiffer or I see either Eartha Kidd or Julie New York. You don't see Halliberry? That's not, I like that movie. Okay. So my deal is we're showing people that say we're not talking about, like Hallibary and this that we're disrespecting. We're actually respecting her by not saying anything about it.

I love the basketball scene in that shit. That is so funny. Benjamin Brad's under the hoops. You know what? I think one of the biggest cinematic scenes was given Hallie Berry a catwoman movie with no Batman. That actually is like ball. I'm serious because I'm serious. I'm serious because the interplay between somebody that devastatingly beautiful and sexy.

Yeah. And with that type of physicality that Hallie Barry. can exude, right? That between that and a Batman would have been awesome. But that movie was not good enough for the character to be by herself. But do we also think

with Holly Berry's storm and her cat woman, she was suffering from the same problem where it was like, you hire Holly Berry to be Holly Berry, and it's very difficult when you're trying to portray a superhero for that celebrity aspect

to kind of like recede into the background. You're just like, I'm still watching Hallie Berry being strong. Yeah, but she's a world-class actor. She could still disappear into a role. I think that that movie just didn't... What? Okay.

Okay. She's a great actress. She's a great actress. She's a great actress. Academy Award winning actress. Fantastic. Right. She's a great actress.

Okay. She is. Uh-huh. Okay, no, I see what's happening. I see what's happening. She's a great, great, great actress. Right, right, right, right. I think it's...

I know about Calvin, I think it's worse in X-Men, Because remember in the first one, she's got that accent. And then by the third one, they're like, I mean, stop that. Look, look, you know, I think Callie Berry was miscast at Storm. You said this. It was a different time. Yeah, it was a different time.

I think Callie Berry was miscast at Storm. Like, she's got too many numbers on the board. Hallie Berry is a bona fide, like, 24-carat gold Hollywood screen icon. Right. Right. But that don't mean everything work. Some things weren't better than others. That Catwoman movie did not work.

No. However, if she'd have been Catwoman in a great Batman movie, I think it would have worked. Oh, for sure. It definitely would have worked. Absolutely. I think Zoe Kravich really works from this point of, like, who's the best looking catwoman ever? That works. I think the best portrayal of Catwoman is Anne Hathaway on screen.

Eartha Kit was the perfect Catwoman. Yeah, she was great. There's a great, like, vintage. I rewatched some of the old, like, Adam West Batman to get, like, an Eartha Kett taster again. Adam West Batman is, like, peak comedy. It's actually, like, very ingeniously well-conceived

how well Earth-A-Kit is in that role to be this, like, just hair-brained villain. There's a great scene that I've loved where she's, like, robbing this, like, fashion show or whatever. And she, like, traps Batman, and Robin, and she runs into, like, the woman's dressing room because they're going to escape. And she's like, they'll never find me in this hollowed ground.

And then Batgirl shows up. And she's like, damn it, they brought in the girl. Like, that's a, like, perfect level of comedy and Catwoman-esque. Like, I just loved it. I know it's not going to win. But she's fantastic. She's fantastic. We're going to, this is part of Mantle Wars is about giving props to everyone.

She's, like, she was fantastic. All right. So if Michelle Fyfer is taking the crown runner up, is it? Is it Anne Hathaway? Is Zoe Kravitz? Is Earth the Kid? I think it's got to be Ann. It's probably in Hathaway.

All right. I love it. I love that movie. Yeah. All right. Next up, who do we have on the list? Okay. Ooh, we're doing back-to-back.

Superman, Lois Lane. So for Superman, we have Christopher Eve, Brandon Roth, Henry Cavill, David Cornswet, TV, Tom Welling, and how do you say Tyler Hawkins? From Superman? Tyler Hawkins. Yeah.

So this is the deal. One thing in Mantle Wars, that was the immediate thing to me was when you think actor you think character. And that's very important. When I think Michelle Pfeiffer, I kind of don't think Catwoman,

but Catwoman isn't actually that type of character to where you see somebody. When I think of the two actors that I think, Superman, boom. It's actually Christopher Reeve and Tom Welley. Those are the two guys that when I see them, I go, they're Superman. Now, Henry Cavill as well, but a lot of that is because of online chatter. Sure.

I'm not saying Hillary Cavill was whack at Superman, but his time as Superman was so fraught that I think he is connected to the character in a way that. has to do as much with like cultural conversation than it does just that. But when I think about Superman, like Superman, I look at this actor and that's Superman, those actors are Christopher Reef and oddly, Tom Welling. Well, I was going to say for Tom Welling is someone who like, I love Smallville.

I think the distinction I would make is I think Tom Wellington is the best Clark Kent that we've ever gotten. And obviously that's because he got to play Clark Kent for a while. He didn't get to see Super. He didn't get to play Superman. But to me, I'm like, oh, Christopher Reeve is the best Superman. Tom Welling is the best Clark Kent. And I think Corn Sweat is the best fusion of the two of them just like, okay, you, you located.

You're absolutely bugging. What are you talking about? Reeve is the best Superman. He's the best Clark Kent. He's the best Cal Al, son of Krypton. He's the best all of them. He's like, he is the best, all of them. Yeah, you're not going to get.

He is, he is, by, his Clark Kent is, I enjoy Corrence West Clark Kent because of what he did. Reeves Clark Kent actually made you, Reeves is the one guy. The rest of these guys, if I'm being honest, their Superman and Clark Kent is the same guy. Even Corsewitz, his Superman and Clark Kent is kind of the same guy. Well, we didn't get to see him much as Clark. That's very true. You know, like, he got what, 10 or 15 minutes is Clark? That's very true.

And really, when he was. was sitting down with Lois, he wasn't Clark. He was Superman. Really? Yeah. Really, but like Christopher Reeve goes from legitimately slouching. Bumbling. You see the switch. Coward.

Slouch to as soon as he removes the glasses. And so, like, he morphs into an otherworldly character. Bro, you have goosebumps talking about it. Like, literally, like, he completely, you see him and it's like,

Like, you look at somebody, I can fuck over that guy. I'll fuck over him. Like, you'll get fucked over. And then the glasses come off and he completely changes. Now, I will say this. Part of that is the performances around him. Correct. It is because she was son in this, Nick.

Oh. Oh, my God. Kidder. Oh, my God. Kidder was great. Cuck Nation, baby. Like, she was son in him. But I think that's the most comprehensive superhero performance ever to me.

Wait, so if it's, Reeve was going to win this hands down. We have to have a podcast. We have to chat about it. But my question is then is who to use the runner up? I don't know. That's tough because, I mean, my instinct was Tom Weil and too, just because of like, again, Smallville was the thing back then. You know what I mean?

I don't think any other of the Superman have made their mark like he has. When they did like some CW thing and they bought all these Superman actors back, I was the most excited to see Tom Wellington back as Superman. Like Roth to me was always just trying to do. Poor kid. Right. He was set up to fail. Corn Sweat, to me, I have to see one more.

Like I have to see like one more. He did a great job. No, he did a fantastic job. Just because I do think that, like, he has the possibility Van is going to say this is blasphemy. If he plays Superman for an extended period, even approaching, like, a Tom Holland type RDJ role, I think for a lot of people, he will jump over read. Look, so this is my deal. It, so much of this is steeped in nostalgia that it's very hard to be objective, right? Yeah, true.

I still think just on the merit that no one's played Superman like Chris Farrie, but forever is a long time. You can't say that that is the defining portrayal of Superman forever. Like, it's a long time. Listen, there is a world, and you see it, and people always look crazy. You see it in glimpses in Justice League. there's a world where Henry Cavill is the best Superman

there is a world where he is the best Superman to where because when you look at how the character's drawn is Henry Carroll is Henry Cavill yeah but then you look at the performance and I'm like well a lot of that a lot of that to me just has to do with how the character is written and what world the character is in I feel kind of about Superman in Manist

steal the way I feel about Batman and Nolan's Batman, right? It's like the world around those guys is fundamentally changing those characters and making them act differently than the versions of them that we're used to seeing. So they can exist in their worlds and contexts and we can be like they're great. But at the same time, man, you want to see Superman like have fun saving people. Yeah. You want to see Superman. Safe is dead, maybe.

Yeah. But it's also some of this generational where it's like you see. Keaton and Reeve at a time as a child where it's like as a country we still like that kookiness especially in our superhero storytelling we do like that like Superman is your friend they could crack a joke I remember being a kid going to the Nolan movies where I'm just like oh no no I want to see some serious shit like like I like as a teenager I'm just like I want Batman to be cool well I think that's a response to obviously Batman forever right it's just like that's just how I've never gotten a cool Batman right as a child I was just like oh

Batman and Robin wasn't it. The Kilmer joint was not it. I was waiting for like, show me that y'all, like the Brendan Roth, Superman, Superman Returns, I'm like, eh, this ain't it. I was waiting for a more serious betrayal of those two characters. And it's a real shame because

of most of the Snyderverse, especially even with Afflex Batman, you only see like cracks of greatness, like little shreds of light where you're like, man, this, like, you could see why he nails this audition. You could see why he nails something about this that could be beautiful and if in other people's hands it's better

in some mass acts. The insane the difference between Batman and Superman is kind of in the tension that we're talking about. Yeah. Batman is essentially criminally insane. Like he's obsessed, he's criminally insane. His PTSD has taken over his whole life. Whereas rather than use his vast economic wealth to change structurally the city of Gotham,

which he's also doing, by the way. He decides that the best way to do it is to beat up criminals at night. And so that is serious. He's putting his life on the line. You see the bruises. He's putting his life on the line every single time he goes out there.

Superman is a space god that's trying to find his humanity. You have to have some fun with it. You have to. It's just not going to work. You have to have some fun with it. So then who's the runner up? Tom Welland.

Tom Welling? Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. I love that. Hey, bro,

I'm gonna be real with you, man. In a Christopher Reeveless world, Tom Welling wins. I mean, I know that's what means. But his portrayal Superman to me is that iconic. And it is Superman to me. Because I look at him as Superman.

He was doing super shit. Not the blur. You're not going to call him the blur? No blur. Once I started talking about the blur, I was like, all right, guys. They had to do something.

All right, lowest lane. We have Margo Kidder, Cape Bosworth, Amy Adams. Rachel O'Brasenhan, and then in TV, Terry Hatcher, Erica Durrance, and Elizabeth Toulock. It's also so funny that we didn't say that, diggers, d'abes, who's been, who's a big Trumper now. He joined ICE for Superman. Oh, we didn't mention D.K.

Oh, I have to say, oh, I just said, that's an oversight. That's an oversight. We don't, we don't fuck with ice. No. Yeah, I was like, I was just research. I was like, we don't got to talk about this. We don't fuck with ice. Yeah.

But Dean Kane's performance of Superman, Dean Kahn and Tyler from Superman and Lewis. I want to make sure those are two. It's harder to do Superman. The Superman, when he's actually in the suit on TV, looks different. That was actually very smart of Smallville to never really put him in the suit until the end. But putting Superman in the suit on TV

looks a little different. You're not going to really compete with movie Superman. But I thought Tyler and Dean were both great Superman. I can't control what a nigga do after the check stopped coming. You know what I'm saying? They definitely stop coming. All right. So for Lowe's Lane, this might be too early, but I just have to say,

the winner for me is Rachel Brazzan. I think she, as I know it's only one performance. Yeah. I think in terms of just, like, not only finding the character, but making the character someone who can really go toe to toe with Superman, not just Clark,

but you, like, realize this is not only why Superman is with her, but, like, this is a boss. She, like, it's... Guess what? I agree. I thought, whoa. I thought, for sure, you would go kidding. And Kidder's amazing.

She's fantastic. Fantastic, but there is this, I prefer the Lois Lane that Rachel Brosan plays. I think it's more indicative of the character. Like, when Superman comes on screen to Lois Lane, to Margo Kears Lois Lane, Margo Kears Lois Lane is great. But when he comes on, when he comes on screen to her, she just melts. She just fucking turns into putty, right?

She just can't get her shit together. She's fumbling over all of her shit and the whole thing like that. to me, hold on, wait a second. Are we talking about our favorite or what makes, because obviously. Who embodies the character?

Margo Kidder is Lois Lane. Like, if you see, I've talked myself out of it. Rachel Bonson, to me, is the lowest lane. When I saw her, I was like, that's the best Lois Lane I've ever seen.

That's the best. But if we're just talking about who the mantle is, when you think Lois Lane, it's Margo Killer, is Marco Kidder. The movies. The movies are more iconic,

Like all of that stuff. But the reason why I want to, I do want to Kate for like Brazzan is I'm like, what never really made sense for me with like a kidder, like always kind of melting when Superman is on screen is I'm like, no, Superman loves Lois. And it was a different time. I'm like, Superman loves Lois because she don't know. Because she's not like, she's not like the fame and the glory of Superman doesn't get to her.

Like she can cut through that and be like, you're a hero. I get it. You're Superman. It's cool that you want to be with me. but I'm fucking Lois Lane. I'm the boss bitch around here. I think Rachel Brazzan did that to a tease.

I don't think that she melts that Lois Lane is a character that, but Lois Lane is in love with Superman. Yes. For sure. Yeah, she's in love with Superman and Clark is catching up. There's this level of like not cynicism, but skepticism around not like the idea of who Superman is, but around the rest of the world interacting

with Superman that Lois really embodies very well. She's in touch. not entirely cynical. She's not entirely doubtful of who's her manager because she wouldn't be in love with them. But like there's a level of you could see why Lois Lane could also fall for Bruce Wayne.

You could also see why the things around her as a hardcore journalist and as a woman of action can not really can be a little impervious to the heroism. Which Lois Lane could also fall for Bruce Way? Brosnahans for sure.

Really? I think so. Yeah. You think that Brosnahans Louis Lane. The question is everything is going to fall in love with a billion and take dude? Yeah, she looked at him and be like, nah.

Well, the reason why she would fall in is that I think the thing that the reason she wants to break up with Clark in the beginning is because, like, Clark is too pure and he's almost too much of him, Bo. And he's like, he takes everything at face value. Whereas, like, someone like Bruce, like,

she's probably like, okay, there's something here where he might be, like, he is the smartest man in the room. And he, like, he doesn't know that I'm catching up. I think, I think, like, At first, maybe it'd be cool because he wouldn't call. He'd be kind of distant. They wouldn't get married? That's cool for her.

But as soon as I started getting close and he's like, and she wake up and he's not there, like, where you've been at? Also, I'll be real. What's my son going to do when we walk through? You know? Can I tell you got something else that changes this a little bit, our relationship to Lois Lane as far as racial process is concerned? They're dating when we meet them. Yeah. True.

So when we meet them, she knows that he's Superman and Clark King. Right. So if we compare her to a lot of these other versions of Lois Lane, the one thing that stands out about Kitters's Lois Lane is that she doesn't know that Superman and Clark King are the same person. She finds out in two, right? Then he brainwashes her again. Right. That's, oh, yeah. He keeps fucking her brain up.

He, like, he brainwashes her again. Like she doesn't know that Superman and Clark can own the same person. So she's reacting to two different versions of the dude she works with and the most powerful man on earth, whereas Brazenahan knows that they're the same person. So a lot of the way she treats him is because she realizes that he is both Superman and also just a guy from Kansas that is in a relationship with her. Right. That has to, in some sort of way, acquiesce to her. She says when you can't come over She says when you can't come over

She's not looking into the sky Towards him like the rest of the world is Amy Adams as well We haven't talked about as well Amy Adams is one of the Amy Adams Phenomenal actress Super miscast as well as

But it's just part of the fundamental Like misunderstandings of that character And I mean it's just that you have that world By yeah You've nuked Jimmy Olson in the first scene I mean they've They've gotten the character right on television more than anywhere.

I thought Teddly Hatcher was great. And Bitsy Tulloch is great as well on Superman and Lois. Like really great, right? But that's Lewis as a mom. Lois as a wife. The whole deal is a lot of things going on. But like, they frequently miscast Lois Lane.

Amy Adams is miscast. Kay Ballsworth is miscast. I guess that's only twice. But like, she's a character that, you know, you don't necessarily get right. But once again, they miscast kind of the world a little bit. So who are we doing winner and runner up? So this is what I have to do. I have to

go kidder as number one. I have to. Brazenhan to me is the that's the most comprehensive Lois Lane. I agree with you. But if we're talking about who is Lois Lane on screen, it has to be Margo King. I think it has to be Kidder. I think it has to be Cozahan. I think I need more

tape. I need more film. Not enough. Not enough film. I kind of need Brosnahan my number one. I would. Okay, so this is crazy because earlier we, I mean... I'd be disavons. I mean, but other folks... When I'm looking at Lowell Slane now in films, I see Brazzan.

Like, it's not as much tape, but I'm just like, damn, with what you were given? Well, to be, if that's true, and I'll just be honest with you, if that's true, then it tells me that you don't have very much of a connection to the character as portrayed on film, because... No, I don't. Right. To those... Right. But that is 100%.

Right. So, because there were four whole movies. Right. This is going to be very generational, like, in this one. But like... The next one's going to be way more generational. Yeah, but we can leave this one deadlocked, and we can let the audience decide. Okay.

Let the audience decide. Like, which one is it, Kinner-A-Brasnaghan? All right. Last but not least, Spider-Man, we have three nominees, Toby McGuire, Andrew Garfield, Tom Holland. This was the easiest for me. I know it's ringer-vers-lore that we had a whole debate about this. Dog, the set photos, Tom Hollen. his sweater, man. I don't care.

Like, Tom Holland is moving like, fuck this. You guys are going to disagree with me. Come on now. You guys are disagree. Come on, man. It's what it is. Like, he is. We're finally here, guys. That is, when we think about, it's him and now it's Toby. So, so here's a deal. I agree.

Really? We finally, everybody coming around. But I think you guys contradicted yourselves. Who's we? I've been here all the time. But on the Marvel Kidder thing. I agree. Who's me? So I think you guys contradicted yourselves a little bit because right now, you'd be crazy to say that, like, the volume of Tom, of Tom Holland is what we're getting at.

Tom, he has not made a Spider-Man movie as good as Spider-Man 2. He has not made a Spider-Man movie as good as Spider-Man 1. He hasn't. Facts. True. Facts. He hasn't made Spider-Man movie as bad as Spider-Man 3. Very true.

Or Amazing Spider-Man 2. Or Amazing Spider-Man 2. But volume. volume. He's been Spider-Man so much and he's been a good Spider-Man so much. It's almost like if we were talking about Bond,

if you're talking about Sean Connery is a lot of people's James Bond, but then you look at other people who've played James Bond a lot more and a lot more visibly. Right? You look at Roger Moore who played James Bond for a long time

and a lot of movies. And you look at Daniel Craig who played James Bond for a long time. Not that many of it was four movies, five movies, in a lot of movies. So you start comparing how people identify the character to the quality of the portrayal of the character. I think Sean Connery is not James Bond and a lot of people's mind anymore, I think that's probably Daniel Craig. We'll get to that. But with this one, if you're comparing, like, I can't say that Tom Holland in Spider-Man,

because he's Spider-Man to the whole world. Yeah. Right? There's that picture we talked about when the set photos late of him standing, like, behind. And he's like looking down. But then there's this new one where there's a kid dressed up a Spider-Man. And he's like pointing at him. And he's pointing at him.

And he's pointing at him. And he really, Toby gave it to him. Sure. Toby passed the torch. Toby passed the torch to him. But also it was, to me, it's like two different leagues. What Toby had to do. Like Toby, to me, Toby is similar to Christopher Reed where it's like, you need to create

something out of whole cloth. You are convincing the world that Spider-Man can swing through these fucking buildings and is Peter Parker and can do all this shit where it's like Tom Holland has the easier path where it's like I've seen two other people in live action play him like I'm bouncing off the MCU which is already going

I just don't need to fuck this up and it's like it sucks to be like I give it to Tom but I'm like also I think Tom weirdly to your point because he's had more movies this is the first Peter Parker we've seen similar to the comics grow up where it was like Toby McGuire looked like a grown ass fucking man it's by the man one

With Tom Holland, it's like we're getting to see, all right, we got our high school, Peter, now we're getting college Peter. And that's very interesting to me because that is closer to the ethos of the character. True. I think the most accurate portrayal of the character is Andrew Garfield and Amazing Spider-Man. This is also true. This is where I am with you. Peter Parker and Spider-Man or Spider-Parker and or Spider-Man of. Both of them.

And TD said this back in the day. Shout out to TD wherever he's at now. Where are you? TD said this back in the day. And I was like, ah, bullshit. But when you go back and you look at the movies, so his Spider-Man, he played a very emotional Peter Parker, right? But legitimately, a Peter Parker that had a lot of questions.

Yeah. And was going through a lot of shit. And didn't have a billionaire benefactor to answer all of them. his problems for. I'm sorry, guys. That just doesn't fucking work for me, bro. Like, I'm just being for real. That just doesn't work for me as Spider-Man.

It can, because you guys eat the slop that you're fit. But, like, it doesn't work for me as Spider-Man. Part of the character is that he does not have that. Yeah. That's, it's...

So, absolute Batman works because Batman is poor, right? But it's like a different version of Batman. This is like absolute Spider-Man. Part of the thing, it is. I mean, Spider-Man's supposed to be broke. Part of the thing is that he does not have that. He literally doesn't have somebody to come in

and usher him through his career as a crime fighter. He learns through tragedy. He learns through loss. And he fucks up all the time. This is a Spider-Man where we don't- Right. He, like, he fucks up all the time. He, like, this guy,

it's an alternative. ultimate version of Spider-Man. Yeah, I also think that the MCU dumbed down Tom Holland in those movies, especially because he was standing next to Tony, where it's like what I like about Andrew Garfield is, to me, he's the most pure desolation of Spider-Man and Peter Parker as a character, because I'm like, no, he's smart. He's convincing me that this guy can create that suit and that web fluid

and can figure this all out by himself, where I'm just like, we see what happened when Tom Holland designed his first suit. Yeah. Where I was just like, that is actually my biggest knock on the character where I'm like, Tom Holland is like an AP student. And he is not a genius. And there's a like there's a great like, again, Amazing Spider-Man too, not a great movie. But there's like a truncated level of growth that you see Garfield go through that I genuinely believe like when he's talking to that kid when he's about to kick the rhino's ass and like he's being that friendly neighborhood after Gwen Stacy dies and he's been bitter and he's been arrogant. and if like Amazing Spider-Man 3 actually happened

and if it was ever good, he would have been like the god tier Spider-Man to me. I don't know if you be the god-tire, but I think there's something that Andrew Garfield, Spider-Man does when he's in the suit. And it's into the first movie when the guy comes at him and he's like, oh, my weakness, small knobs. And he's like, kind of, he's a dick.

He's fucking with him. He's annoying and he's like, it's just like, all right, this is Spider-Man, this Spider-Man who, all the Avengers are going to be annoyed about because he's coming, he's going to talk, and he's going to be like, yo, shut the hell up. And I kind of feel like, weirdly enough, McPhile and the people who wrote Infinity War and Civil War and Foxeniphyly, right? Yeah.

They got that. But I don't feel like Summers and McKenna did. And he's not as annoying. He's not witty in those movies. He's not witty in the Spider-Man movie. No. He is in the Avengers, which is kind of. Which is me?

So, like, for example, like in Civil War, when. And he's like mentioning that old movie where... See, he's not... He's not Whittie at all. He's just a... He's a stupid kid. He's a stupid kid. So he's not, but he's not Whitty.

Yeah, but he's... Because Whitty... Witty... So, I'm going to say a couple of things. So he's not witty, he's not witty y'all. He's just a stupid kid that doesn't know that what he's saying sounds crazy to adults. Like, they infantilized him. And so he's describing Empire Strikes Back and a movie that everybody knows, right?

And he's describing it like a film. He has no agency over the fact that he's making a joke. He is the joke. The joke is that he is saying that and he doesn't realize that he's describing one of the most famous movies of all times. Which is also kind of silly too because in the next movie he's building a dead star with his friend. So you should know that movie. Well, no, what I'm saying is he he's and also, but there's also.

something else that they do this interesting, but it's still part of his genius that he can take references from anything that he sees anywhere and use it in battle, right? Alien and Infinity War. Alien Infinity War. He still can take anything that he sees anywhere and synthesize the information and use it in battle.

But, and maybe we'll see a different version of Spider-Man. We've had a longer time with the character now. He's a little bit older. But that's part of the thing that's like, it's not like he's the one that I'm smarter than you and it's annoying that I'm smarter than you you and I'm making the joke. he's on the back foot the entire time

he's on the back foot the whole time there's never a point where he's really confident like in any way and it's just a different spider and Garfield's Parker like occasionally while like lashing out and angry and arrogant like had a lot of swag to him

with him and Emma Stone bouncing off of each other and like Oh damn you could tell they was fucking I mean wait and this leads me to my next question and we had to do love interests who's been the best spidey love interest Because I do the screen.

Gwen Stacy for sure. I think it might be Emma. Him and Emma Stone were like, it was electric. But yeah. Because I, like, I weirdly think Zendaya is the most

underserved in those movies. I'm like, why she's, yes. No, she is. No, she's funny. They don't give her anything to do.

She got moments, but yeah, it's kind of like, all right, man, like tapping, like, like, what are you going to.

This is so fun. It's having a great time. It's great. I think the, the Kristen, the, the Kristen Dunn stuff is tough because,

because, like, like, now you need rewatch the movies as like an adult. You kind of like, I kind of see where she's coming from. Yeah. He wasn't,

that man wasn't providing. He wouldn't do another for you. Don't I'm saying? The tini's were titty in that one scene. Oh, well. What? That's what they weren't.

I always said about watch it. But you, but you see why he was on it like that. I see what he was on it like that. Once again, though, is, so I'm going to say two things. One is about something that you said.

There's a scene in the amazing Spider-Man where Martin Sheen, and I think it's Sally Field, right? And, like, Peter leaves the house. And when he leaves the house, he slams the door. And the glass breaks. He doesn't know how strong he is.

He learns throughout the movie, like, how to control himself. He doesn't get it. He's not just a regular kid that can have angst and can go out there and do shit recklessly. He's a superpower being. And when you see the glass break, you see two mere mortals look at him and go, oh, my God. Like, to me, that's the Spider-Man thing.

The tension is between somebody coming into the fact that they are one of the most powerful meta-humans when their brain isn't fully developed as a, he's a genius who is also a child, who is also the savior of his neighborhood, who is all of that stuff. What he is not is the apprentice of Tony Star. Right. But to your point about Superman and Lewis, about them being together, like, seeing that, already together. When we meet him, he's already got his powers. Right. Right. He's had his powers for like six months at that point. And he's been saving buses or cars from buses and things like that.

Like, so we've met, like, he's already had that level of like growth of like controlling his powers. I didn't play football then, so I should it now. Right. Like, that's, it's kind of the same thing where like we've met, like, we don't have to see that. We know like that little beginning part of his story. We don't need that. I agree with that great point. I will say this though. Um, you still, you don't have to see the origin of it, but I think that you still need to see the tension. You see the tension between him, what you see is his aspiration as a superhero.

You see him wanting to do too much, right? You see his aspiration. But, I mean, he doesn't have to really go through that much. Everything with him. So Peter, Peter Parker has to make decisions between, and look, he is a younger Peter Parker. So he's not working at the Daily Bugle and stuff. yet, there really is no daily bugle until, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's different

in the Spider-Man. It's a really different portrayal of the character. And there's, I think, it's something I, I got to take an end on this. I think when I was, like, going through, like, when the movies were first coming out, I was like, we know Uncle Ben's there, you know, we got a single Ben, this and that. I was, we watched No one home yesterday, just think about this. And I was like, that's kind of messed up. We didn't get no Uncle Ben love.

I guess Aunt May is the Uncle Ben, but at the end of the day, like, why? That was still a dumb choice. Yeah. It's a hard decision to kill these both. Like, what, like, what a fucking weirdo thing to do? I understand. Like, she, like, it's a, to, to, to kill them both is just fucking crazy, bro. I understand not giving us Uncle Ben at the jump.

But then you got to, like, at least, like, give us, like, yeah, man, this is what happened. Yeah. Like, at least, like, when he's, when he's doing his thing, with great power comes great responsibility, they load that from. Brown May and I'm like, cool, but like, so you just not really? Thanksgiving, can you imagine in the next movie of Tom Holland has to go spend time with Happy Hogan?

Like, come on, bro. Somebody wants to see that shit. It's, but look, I will say this. Robust discussion of Spider-Man. Tom Holland, Spider-Man. Now, who's the runner-up? I don't.

I don't agree. I think I'm more in the bag for Garfield. I feel like with this reason. You can do that. Well, I won't say this, though. No, I feel like No Way Home is just a bit, it's just a tick in his, in his, and it's not for Tom Holland?

Yeah, it is. No Way Home is basically a redemption arc for Garfield's Spider-Man. No Way Home put three Spider-Man on the screen. And it's all Garfield. Excuse me. And it was clear who had the most crisp. Yes. It put three Spider-Man on the screen and he stole a movie from him.

But also, that's because Andrew Garfield is the best actor between the three of them. And guess what? It kind of really counts when you were reading a definitive movie. I don't think you can do that. We're not doing that. You can't do that. Well, we can't put Andrew Garfield as well. That's not he would.

And I love him. I don't understand. But like we see the set photos from a movie that's not out yet. I feel like I'm just falling for propaganda. Well, I mean, for a glorified, like, Disney actor that is just going to be saying hi to the kids and making him feel good. So that I would love to see that out. That was, like, really aggressive towards him. Glorified Disney actor, you bite your tongue.

Wow. Yeah, but all you're saying is just like, yes, he's good with kids. and he makes and he's good in the suit okay all three of them have been all right this is bad what are we even doing this is bad what do we're even doing i don't see i don't hear rebuttal oh i'm like hey man this is like trying to argue that devon booker is the best shooting gone to league because he was cool with the olympics one time i will say that you're you're you're reconciling your arguments for rachel brazen he's making a rachel brazener's making a rachel brazener's the lowest lane argument he's being you're kind of not.

You're saying my Rachel Brazenhand pick is like I will concede to you because I don't really have much connection to the Christopherie movies. But this is why you have to think, but this, hold on, one second. This is why you have to think beyond yourself. You can think, you, like, you can say,

the question is, the question isn't who is my, because my Spider-Man is Toby McGuire. The question is who is Spider-Man? You know, and similar, my, my pick would be for Toby McGuire. But like, I can't pink Andrew Garfield because he has a good movie and a terrible movie where I'm just like, hey,

at least all of Tom Holland's Spider-Man movies are like good to find. He does not have a terrible one. But this to me is like, that counts for me. Same thing with Christian May. Like, it's like that counts. But it falls apart when we had this Ben Affleck argument

because if we had three good Ben Affleck Batman movies, do you think he would be in the conversation for being best Batman? He doesn't. That's the problem. He does it. But I, but I, Every time I see him on the green.

The only thing that's different about that one is he doesn't have a Batman movie. Yeah, he does. Like, he pulled his way in Batman versus Superman. For sure. He pulled his weight. It wasn't his fault. Like, so he doesn't have, so that one we can't. You're not going to give him credit for Justice League.

We sure not going to give him no credit for the Flash. Yeah, like he pulled his way in the movies. He did what he was supposed to do. Once again, this was my pick for just who was the best Batman, your favorite Batman on screen? If it's not Christian Bell, it's Bed Affle. Like, I just got to go. go with the tape. And like, what the tape tells me is of just like, Andrew Garfield was a phenomenal actor, but shit didn't work out for him. It was a fucking different time. Hey, yo,

it is what it is. But for that same reason, I would argue that you guys should be able to see that Marco Kidder is Lawson. But sure. I think what makes Lois Lane a little bit different if I'm being, if I'm being real, is that because Lois Lane has not been the hero or like hasn't been the central protagonist of any of those movies, that's what makes I think. get the conversation a little bit difficult where it's like, oh, for that I have to, for that I have to be like, well, I'm not watching the Lois Lane movie. I'm watching the Superman movie. So a lot of my grade for Rachel Brazzan is I'm like, oh, not only is this is this the closest to the comic book betrayal, but I'm like, if you take Lois Lane out of James Gunn's Superman movie, I'm just like,

that's like, you are basically the second build. Like it does not work. She is like the second lead to me, even over Lex Luton. Have you seen Superman a movie? Yes, but I'm like, I... The movie absolutely does not in any way, shape, or form work without... No, no, no, but what I'm saying is, Rachel, I'll put it to you this way. When James Gunn was like, oh, the most important scene in this movie is Rachel and Corn Sweat going back and forth with each other. I was just like, oh, the way you found Clark, it seems, is actually through Lois. The way you saw the theme of this movie and everything is through Rachel Bros.

True. I'm not taking anything. away from care. But he rewrote that scene. He wrote, he rewrote my night with Superman and just inverted it for our time. So that's the most important scene

in Superman the movie too, is whatever. We're not fucking on, Mark, we've already decided. The artist is going to decide. Also, I love, guys, I love Marco Cater.

Like, she's great. We're going back to the same thing. It's like, this is a generational thing where it's just like, when I was reading comic books, when I was thinking of Loess Lane as a character,

I'm just like, oh, even the old portrayals in the comments. I'm like, Rachel Brazzing, and got closer to that than Margo Kidder, even though, to your point, Margo Kidder to the world still is low swing.

I can see it. I think, but I mean, Steve, like, when people think of Spider-Man, they think of Tom Holland, then they think of Toby McGuire, and then they think Andrew Garfield. And I'm saying that I think of, I think of... And I'm glad that you do. And I'm glad that you do.

Well, I just think, so, so, okay, so Tom Holland has played Spider-Man in three solo movies, soon to be a fourth, two Avengers movies. And then... And then Civil War. And then Civil War.

So that's just... You just can't fuck with it. You can't... I mean, that's the... Sure. Eight movies? Yeah. And if we're talking about, like,

iconic Spider-Man... Six. Six movies. You just can't fuck with it. It's too much. Sure. And he's done a good job. I don't think his character is really Spider-Man.

Yeah, but think about it... I'm framing it this way. But he's... But he's done a good... I like all of these movies. Yeah. I like all of these movies. And he's Spider-Man, bro.

We don't got it. I'm saying in two movies... What's unself to go, man? Huh? What's unself, the best player, and then be his time. You want to know what this is? This is like where everybody keeps going,

cornsworth not really Superman. He was getting beat up too much. I'm like, guys, can we? No. He's Superman. But I'm not talking about power set, though. It's one thing to talk about somebody's power set, Superman, I mean, you know, that is what it is.

What you have to get from Superman, alien wants to be human. Well, I think his Superman is more Superman than Caval's Superman. than Ralph Superman. I think that he, I think they got the essence of Superman and changed some things around him, right?

They made fucking Jorrell and Laura bad guys. God damn. They took some big swings, right? I'm not saying that that's, but I'm just saying the essence of the character is what I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about the dressing. And to me, the essence of Tom Holland is Spider-Man. I think that's just to talk. We got to, you have to remember the first movie, Don, man. You got to remember the first movie.

You are hanging. Just thinking about you. You are. I am trying. You know, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all'all. I've seen it. Yeah, it's fine.

When he lit, when he wins him something. When Spider-Man, when Iron Man takes the suit away, if you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it. When Iron Man takes the suit. And then he didn't give Spider-Man his suit. Spider-Man. But you're getting her-old. But you're getting him up on that. Shit changes.

You're getting hook up on that, though. didn't give no one. And you're not moving past it. And you're not moving past it. Let me ask you to the question right now. Let's say we take Tony Stark. Let's say we take Tony Stark and we make Tony Stark a guy that flew into space and then was given the Iron Man technology by aliens. All right.

That is not even close to. This is not even close to this. Let's say we take Tony Stark and we make Tony Stark and we made Tony Stark a guy that was given the suits by aliens. He was given the suits by aliens. Aliens gave him the suit. You're not being serious. You're not getting nothing. And then, wait, wait, wait, wait, aliens gave him the suit.

And then he comes back down and aliens give him the suit. What all the aliens give him the suit. And then he has to figure out how to work it, right? And then he communicates with the alien AI and that makes him Iron Man. What changes is the central thing that makes him Iron Man is that the creation of the Iron Man character, is something that he had to do both to survive and to figure his life out. And then the aliens come, take the suit away.

He has to be like, who am I? No, no, no. In this character, like, he goes around saving people, right? And he becomes Spider-Man. Right, I give credit for that. Like, he figures it out. He invents the web fluid, all of that stuff.

But then everything else about him is something that he's trying to emulate. And we're being real. Just wait. Everything else about him is something he's trying to emulate. He's trying to emulate Tony. He's trying to be an Avenger. He's trying to figure all it is.

Everything else is something else that he's not figuring anything. I feel like he's had three origin movies. Like, even origin movies. And then, like, just unbelievably stupid. Oh, no. A 16-year-old makes bad decisions. Like, unbelievably stupid. I don't even disagree with you, but, like, we have to be real.

If we go back, how many Spider-Man... There were five Spider-Man movies that were released within, like, what, a decade, 15 years of each other? They have to make us believe that Spider-Man is in this universe

where we've already seen the Avengers form, fucking Thanos, all this other fucking bullshit. I do understand from a story perspective where they're just like, hey, it's already going to be tough to put a 16-year-old around all these 30- fucking 40-year-olds,

is running around all this shit, we probably have to give him the suit. I do agree with you that it's like a little clunky, but I do see why they're just like, how do we fit him into the MCU and make him seem like he can, one day, go to fucking see, but blaming that on the quality of the movie

is just emboldening my argument of being, okay, he's the best part of two movies that I don't like and I still think he's a better Spider-Man. And he has one good movie and one unwatchable one. We are not doing this. Well, I mean, look, And I'll be honest with you.

He has one movie and one unwatchable movie. He does. He does. He is not unwatchable. The movie is, but the movies, hey, Steve, you're going to go home and watch Spider-Man 2 right now? You're going to see some amazing TikTok edits. You're going to watch some TikTok edits.

That's not the movie, Steve. But look, I'll say this, though. In those movies, the margin for error for him is, it's different than what it is for Tom Holland. Tom Holland's movies are chalkful of all kinds of different people. Nick Fury is in the movie. Tony Stark is in the fucking movie. Dr. Strange is in the movie.

Everybody's in the third movie. The third movie, once again, he kind of ate up in his own movie. All right, the league is easier. I don't know what you, like, I don't know what to tell you, right? I'm not telling you that the league is easier. I'm telling you that when you're saying that one movie,

I'm responding to something directly, when you're saying that one movie is, significantly worse, what I'm telling you is that yeah, it's worse because the movie has more to do. It's Spider-Man versus these people. These other movies are putting Spider-Man in a

world where everybody sons him. He was getting sung by Mysterio. This nigga... Spider-Man's always getting sunned. Spider-Man ain't never got son by Mysterio before? So, no, no, no. I'm not talking about... Whoa, Spider-Man doesn't get pumped. I'm not talking about getting punked,

as in getting beat up. I'm talking about getting conned like a little bitch I'm not talking about getting punked now Spider-Man takes L's and then he comes back and he wins. Look, I'm talking about like somebody coming in the scene where Mysterio, and it's still one of my favorite scenes, the scene

where he does that, is in the bar and they just made this kid look like a fucking moron again. I was like, so pissed off. And he looks around to all of his people. Well, that's hard. And Spider-Man gives him the shit. Gives him the shit. It's like a little spider baby And that's fine

And maybe he won't be in this movie I will say it is crazy He had three mentors And three movies I'm like damn That way my mother I stand on your own too This nigger signed

The more people than Drake You know what I'm saying It's like Wow Bras I'm not only do I disagree I think that we need to be making more movies like Spider-Man

Not in like the mentor Mentee relationship But just have folks in movies again Right It felt like the world because he could go to Dr. Strange but like, yo, I got a problem. Tony Stark's there.

Nick Fury's there. We don't do this anymore. People are just in the busy. Yeah, but sometimes you don't need a DJ Caled out. Sometimes you want to release a classic by yourself. And that's Spider-Man Ford to me. Like that's what he is. What are you?

You don't know that that's it. Damn, you're right. You're right. It's not a whole-stop. You're right. You're right. With a propaganda joke. Bro, they still.

By the way, I will say this, though. I do think this will be closer to, I think this is kind of, I think he had a three arc origin story. I hope it's great. I think he had a three arc origin story and now we're kind of two, whatever. But still, but you know what, though? If we're being fair, they couldn't do it now, right?

What they're going to put? Spider-Man living in a one bedroom, bring everybody back. Nobody. The world's too big now. It's too big. The world's too big. And maybe it was too big. But I'm saying is this.

I give Tom Holland the mantle of Spider-Man. I do. Yeah. But it is begrudgingly. because I don't think it's in any way I'm not saying a comic accurate portrayal sure I don't think it's an accurate portrayal of the character

just like I thought man of steel sour fucking brooding Seattle Superman Seattle Superman I don't think that was a great that's great

I don't think that that was an accurate portrayal it's like when I watched the movie I was like this movie is cool but is Superman going to try to stop, is he going to do anything to save the people of Metropolis while the buildings are being decimated?

We're just going to snap this motherfucker because is he not going to. Is he going to, like, is Superman going to do something because there's a bunch of people getting murdered right now? I was watching movies. I was like, what is he going to try to do? Is he going to help? Wait, so who's the runner up for Spider-Man then? Toby or Andrew? It's got to be Toby. I got to he got the best Spider-Man. He got the best

Spider-The Andrew thing is not going to happen. See, I feel you. That's fun. I'm glad you. I speak from the heart. But this is the backflake exception. we could call it. Yeah. The Baflek exception. Like, Batflick,

we like them. We high on Batfleck. High on Batflick. High. You got to win one chip. Like, just you got to win one. You got to have a championship,

right. And Andrew. Other than that, we talk about Chris Paul. Like, you know, one of the Al Paul at the crib,

like, yo, me? I mean, it's not. Chris Paul was an all-time sports. Great. Hall of Fame, first ballot.

No ring though. First Ballot Hall of Fame. So this is a superhero ring culture? Like, but you got to... Yes. Yeah, you got to win a ring if you're going to be in this one. If you're going to call... Because Chris Paul is probably what?

Second, third-grade is point guard of all time? Yeah. Ooh. I mean, if you... Steph. You got Steph, Magic, Isaiah, CP3. It's tough. It's tough to break through.

That's not... That's not... And that's not on Chris Paul. It was fantastic. It's not on him. But the rings come first, man. The ring... So, Batflack is CP3.

Yeah, like, everything that you want. We should do... But it was never, he is. Bethlehick is CP3 and I'll tell you why. Everything that you want, perfect, just never in the right situation. And a fantastic, fantastic floor raiser. Fantastic floor raiser. Yeah, that's true.

Never in a right situation. Just never in the right situation, bro. If you guys don't know who CP3 is, we're talking about Chris Paul. Okay. I know some of you are, I hate it when they talk about sports. Chris Paul is one of the finest basketball players that has ever lived. he's a point guard but

wasn't on the right team wrong place right time then always in the right situation he SGA maybe always in the right situation but didn't have to do that much

he definitely yes yeah because it's not like he can't score yeah oh my God but then that would make Cp3 like Iron Man in that 2019 2020 year yeah he came through

gave him the tool Maybe the metaphor's not like he can't score. He could score. He could score. He could score. But, man, they had all the draft picks around him. He got Chet. He got J-dub.

He got Lou Dort. Oh, my God. He's literally top of Holland. He's literally top of Holland. He's literally top. He's literally like he's got everybody around him. He got, like, he got Sam Presti. He got Alex Caruso.

It's like, all he got to do is score and win. That's it. That's it. Meanwhile, if you look at like a CP3, he got to go out and get buck. I will say this. You can make an argument. I'm a huge Lakers fan. I love Kobe.

Love Kobe. You can make an argument that CP3 maybe probably could have should have won that 2008 MVP, bro. Probably. But Kobe should have won him before. You can make an argument anyway. Now we went far off the reservation. Look, Steve feel like he got a dub. It was a little like, yeah, we try.

All right, what the hood of mantle truck? All right. So for Superman, wait, did we start with Superman? No, let me read this on. Yeah, we did. No, we started with Batman. So for Batman, we have Christian Bail, runner up, Michael Keaton, Catwoman. We had Michelle Pfeiffer runner up in Hathaway.

Superman, we had Christopher Reeve runner up, Tom Welling, Lois Lane was the tie. But honestly, I'm changing my vote. I think winner Margo Kidder, runner up, Rossahan. I've been convinced. I've been convinced. Jummy, you by yourself. No. I've been convinced.

I was in the ball and train. I was kidding. All right. And that Spider-Man, and that Spider-Man we had, begrudgingly from Van, Tom, Tom Holland, went a runner-up. And then the runner-up, is Toby Maguire. And in Steve's heart, it is Andrew Garfield.

A way game for me. Steve's heart is Andrew Garfield. We should do, we should do rings. We should start counting up superhero rings. This is a ring. Who has the Tom Brady, like, like, spread? This is a, it's easily. Rob-Down-D-Jew.

He's easy. It is like easily like. Easy. We're going to do more mantle wars. We're going to get a little bit more visual than the next time. We're going to have the boards and stuff. We're going to let the people. Because who's on the board?

We still need to do Joker. Bond. Bond. Bonn. Who else? Who else do we have? We don't have enough live action portray. Live action, but we're doing like comics and we're talking like Green Lantern,

Captain America, Flash. Like all these comic characters who haven't like appeared on screen yet, but have all the generations. We can do, like, I don't know, Jeff Gordon. Because I think the real thing, if we were just talking about characters, I can make an argument, Miles Morales has been stepping on Peter Parker's corners. There you go.

And just in terms of just like, I see a lot more kids interested in being Miles Morales than they interested in being Peter. The kid in that Spider-Man photo is wearing a Miles Morales. Spider-Man. Nigs not really fucking with Peter like that no more. It's crazy. So that is one that is going to be the one that shakes man to wars up the most.

Yeah, because do you want to be Miles Morales? or do you want to be... I will say this live... This would be the last thing I'll say. A live action Miles Morales movie, I really do think would, like,

change the game. Like, actually people would be like... A really good one, yes. Would actually get us, like if we're in a very down slump with superhero content, in case of an X-Men movie and a Miles Morales live-action movie

will actually be like... There's only one problem with the Miles Morales live-action movie. Sony would have to make it. And... And that... That's the only problem with it. And look, y'all get mad at me and not want to send me the care packages and invite me to the screenings all y'all want.

Because people have been out here talking shit. And I'm telling you, we keep it real over here. Yeah. All right. Now, these niggas, you don't have to invite them to anything. What? What? Because they don't get the mailers?

We don't get the... They're not going to know the difference. But for all of all... I look at the computer. The computer is... But for all of y'all is out like, man, you still want to... Fuck all that. We keep it real on the Midnight Boys.

People have been, the industry is listening to the Midnight Boys, and they sometimes don't like our takes. They sometimes don't like our takes, right? All right. But we don't invite me to the shit. The reality is to my friends, my people of Vansoni, y'all can't, y'all can't, y'all niggas can't do it. Fuck it.

And that's what that's why that's how I have. No, they got one with K-pop Dima Hunters. They just sold it. They can do it. And then give it away. They got great movies. but they can't do Spider-Man. They haven't done it.

The only time they've done it is animation. And guess what it works? We love it. Well, I'm saying right now, if we do live action Miles Morales movie, there's no reason to believe that Sony could do it. There's no reason to think the MCU could do it either. Well, hold on.

What are you talking about Miles Morales movie? You just said that they have like... Time out. You just said that they did... There are three solo solo Spider-Man movies that are all like... Again, you said good to you... You're not talking about those. I'm talking about the track right.

of movies we've got it recently. I mean... In no way home is one of those movies that we've gotten recently. But I can see what you're saying. That's fine if you want to look at it like that. I'm saying that Spider-Man. If I'm defending like, hey, I agree with you.

If it's fuck us, it's fuck you. I'm just going to shoot Sony some bail. Be like, I'm looking at the MCU. Be like, it don't seem like they can do it either. I'll tell you this only thing I'll say about it. Madam Webb is crazy. It's kind of a generation. It's like the MCU has been...

Madam Webb, they did a year of Madam Webb, Venom and nasty work Craven. Morbius, bro. Come on, man.

Morbant time. Them, them movies be crazy, man. Craving? The Wino and Craven I just remember that shit. It's so funny to me.

I like him. Rino? I fuck with the Rino. Oh, yeah, Rino was great. The performance is great. The actual.

This is the thing with the Sony movies, bro. Sony though, Sony goes, it's not like Sony goes Tom Arnold is Craven a hunter. Then you would be like,

Okay, I get it. Yeah. They fucking around. That's not what they do. They go, Aaron Taylor Johnson is Craven 100. Russell Crow's dad. And then you go, oh, this movie got to be good. They're not fucking around.

Yeah, yeah. Then you go to see the movie and you're like, they fucking around. They make decisions without fear. Without any fear. They go get the, it's not like they put off-brand people. They put the-Areta-Dobo's Oscar winner. Yeah. And you guys, they fucking around.

They fucking around. So I don't know what to say. So if they, if you give them. Now, if you have Amy Pascal involved, maybe, you know, she, she's a top-flight producer. Maybe she didn't get it. But, like, a Miles Rao's movie might be. Sony's the young money, the young money of movies where it's like, you're like, damn, back of the day they had Drake and Drake was so hot. They throw a Drake hook on some shit.

You're like, yeah, I'll listen to the record. And then you're like, ooh. Then they signed Lil Zah. Shout out to them. Why am I doing this today? There's no reason for that man I like you. You know what?

I'm going to go completely the opposite. I'm a shout out Lil Zai in a positive way because one of the greatest eras in TMZ history was when Justin Bieber had got with Lil Zai. Are you talking about Little Twist? It was both of them, right? Hold on.

Is it Little Twist and Lil Zai? I don't even know who Lil Zai is. Who is Little Zai is? I don't know who Lil Zai is. It was Little Ziz? Because there was little Twis. There was Chuckie in. Air Choice.

Who is Lil Zah? Is Lil Zah person? You make that up? Texas-based emerging hip-hop artist. Yeah, no, this isn't who you're thinking of. Little Twits Brother. Oh, okay, Lil Zah's little Twits brother. And one of Justin Bieber's close friends.

Yeah. So that was one of the best eras in L.A. You see the Fisker Karma around L.A. And you knew that it was either Justin Bieber, Lil'Twis, or Lil Zah. And the content was up. They was terrorized in L.A. I'm serious, bro. It was like, that was a good time.

Wait, so that was your error, so I can ask this question. Yo, y'all did little twist at his brother dirt. Like, what happened? What's the white people was just like, hey, yo, Justin Bieber, that's the bag. They was like, look, they was demonizing little twist. I'm like, shit. So this is what, I'll tell you what really happened in that situation. It wasn't, there's a documentary that should be made.

Okay. And a documentary should be the fight for Justin. Bieber. Between the white people and the black people? Not the white people and the black people. Now, this is for me from the outside looking in. I do not talk to Justin Bieber. I do not know Justin Bieber. What I do know is that Justin Bieber was a huge pop star. And then there were multiple different factions and fronts that had presented themselves

to be influential in his life. One was the rap guys, the older rap guys, some of the people he was hanging around with. then it was his management Scooter Braun Scuder Braun, Kenny and all of those guys and then later on it was Hill song Oh the church

The church and it was all three of those different people Not all at the same time But watching from the outside end The different spheres of influence And how they influenced him At any given different time was so interesting at that point to be in

celebrity news because there were, in my opinion, truce is made behind the scenes. People had to see the little control. It's like, if he's with one group of people, it was like he's with one group of people and that wasn't good for him so you want to get him away from those people

but then maybe he goes with the church people and you don't have control over him because the church people have control over him, but it's better off than him being on drugs and all of that stuff. And then there started to be beef between the church people and the people that have been

justice management for a long time. There was all of these different things that were happening and it was all around this one guy. And we saw it play out because when we would cover him, we would cover things that he would do when he was getting in trouble in Miami, getting in trouble of Calabasas.

Then all of a sudden, you would see Justin Bieber and he was going to church. Then the thing was, well, what is Hill song really? Is it a church or is it some kind of different organization? like people were saying that Hill Song was a little culty

maybe so what is that who are the people around him are these people around him that are now becoming celebrity it was just very interesting because all of this is happening you know Justin people's only like 30 right now all this is happening he's 17, 18, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23

and you're seeing how literally the sphere of influences around him are directly directly influence the things that he does. And it was just like all of these different factions, fighting for Justin. And you know what that reminds me of?

Same thing that was happening, basically with Spider-Man. It's the same thing that was happening, basically, with Spider-Man. So they gave him the suit. Or the same thing that's happening with Superman and Batman right now. A lot of people want Batman. A lot of people want Batman. A lot of spheres of influence. But, guys, that has been Mantle Wars.

I think it would get that contentious. Look. This dude, Andrew Garfield over here. Shout out Andrew Garfield. Shout out Andrew Garfield. I love Andrew Garfield. Shout out Sony. Shout out Sony.

Hey, Sony. My bad, Sony. My bad, son. I thought we wasn't apologizing. I thought I was going to keep it real. Because I don't want, I have friends that these, these people watch and love the show, bro. And they'll be getting texts. They'll be like, I just don't like.

Not too much on us. I don't like what people, he's like, I don't like when people try to play with me. Hey, Van, don't you want to come to the, nah, I don't have to come to none of them. I'll be at the house with a fucking dog. Huh? Is that why we don't be getting advice? No, fuck the. invites. I'm like Earl sweatshaw. I don't like shit. I don't go

outside. Fuck that shit. No. It's like, I'm like, Charles is outside. It's like, yeah, you'd be outside. No, no, no. I'll be outside. I want to be at. Fuck that shit. Yeah, so it's like, you know, all right, that's enough. Hey, we love y'all. Alien episode. Alien episode,

Alien episode was crazy. Alien episode is crazy. We go check in next week. Alien episode, check in next week. Checking with Alien and. Two episodes. Fire. Alien. Alien. Fire. That shit going crazy, bro. I haven't watched. No spoilers. I haven't watched it.

Don't lock in. No spoilers. You know what we're doing on the Midnight Boys right now? Whatever the fuck we want to do. Hell you. And shout out to the production in the back. This part went long. Who's back to Alea?

CT. CT and Jade. Ct. And Jay. And Jade. No Alleya? No Alleya. Jay, what's up?

What's up, Van? That's what I'm talking about. All right, we got to go. That's a wrap. This week on the Ring of Earth's feed. House of R continues their alien earth deep dives and buffy recaps. I love that type of shit. on Friday, Min Edition does their big comics catch up.

I can't wait. I've never once been on Min Edition. Neither has he. You want to come on? I'll give you some stuff to read. It doesn't really make sense. It's fine. It's the same shit with the, y'all to Sony of this configuration.

Oh, we don't send the invite so as fuck us. Our producers are CT and J. Jomy not going to get no stake on social. Spears of Fears of Joan Flores and additional production by Arjuno Ram Capel. Charles, take us out. Take us out. Please, Chuck. Antal Wars was contentious.

We love a good flight. And if you are a small white child, do not sit next to van on a flight. Honestly, my little kids is now, like the L.A. dog community, mostly the smaller ones have gotten out of control. Like, it's just, it's, it's getting nasty. It's getting really nasty out here.

You said it. That's all I'm going to say. He said it. Listen, the way, the way you feel about I love dogs. But. I'm, that's where I'm at. To the dog community,

If I'm inside at a restaurant, oh my God. And you got your dog in your lap, eating off the plate, I'm like, all right, we don't lost a clock. We don't lost a pot. So let me tell you something.

Bro. Bringing your dog to the brewery dog? Yeah, exactly. Come on, man. Let me tell you something. This is where it's going to be weird because I don't agree. Okay, so you are.

You are going everywhere. There's like, it's, the Venn diagram is people who hate kids, people who hate dogs, and it's two different circles. I love dogs. I just, if I'm at a restaurant, here's the thing,

If we're outside or whatever, it's fine. If I paid to be at this restaurant and I got to look at your dog eating off your plate. Inside. Come on, right. I'm a fucking, like, I'm going to be mad. This is my thing with all of this. None of it matters unless I am disturbed. I'm not offended.

I mean, yeah. But listen to what I'm saying. If there's a cool baby, you're going to be chilling. I'm not offended by the presence of kids. Right. No. I'm not offended. by the mere child being around.

Okay. Right? That's not the thing. Most dogs that are in these restaurants are incredibly well behaved. They're not barking. They're not going crazy. I don't know where you got. I have yet to be in a red,

I'm going to be real with you. We've all been in movie theaters and on planes with crying babies, right? Not a movie theater, no. You've never been in a movie theater with a crime baby? Not really, no. A plane, yeah. I don't remember. Playing for sure.

Yeah. So for me, or just kids in general, for me, the kids are normally less well behaved in the situation than these dogs are. Nah. These dogs are lonely-the little yappy dogs shitting everywhere, barking everywhere. I've never seen a dog shit in a restaurant before. But maybe, yeah, look, if you don't want dogs and restaurants, it's never bothered me because I also, I don't look at things and, like, get disgusted. Like, it's not disgusting for me to see a dog. dog in a restaurant. That's not disgusting to me. Because I know that in this restaurant, there are many rats. But here's the thing. I think it's okay.

That is true. Like, they just get there's right. There's one, I think we've got to the point where it's like you used to see like one dog in the restaurant. Not everybody bring their dog in the restaurant. And I'm just like, hey, yo, when I go to a restaurant, I'm not trying to see like when I turn left, right, three, four dogs all like eating scraps and shit. Like, no, take him home. Guess what? I disagree with that. But at the same time, if you don't, if you don't,

don't want to go to a fucking restaurant with a dog in. I'm not paying no upcharged for those guys. It would be great. It would be great. I'll let me finish. I never said that. But I'm saying, if you don't want to go to a restaurant with a dog in it and they want to make that rule, great. I don't have any fucking problem with that.

I don't have any problem with there being a restaurant that says no dogs. Wait, but why do we have to go? I just want more social responsibility. If you have a badass little kid, if you have a badass little dog, recognize that you have like someone that's going to ruin the body.

Well, the kid has to fly. So that's the problem. So the problem is this. I'm not trying to say keep kids out of the sky. Just your skies. I'm not saying keep kids out of the sky. Kids got to fly. They got to go on vacations.

And sometimes I understand that this is a very difficult decision for people. Because you got to fly with the baby. And the baby's ears. They're popping. They're not right. But you got to go see. grandma, she's not going to be with us long. No, I'm serious.

It's a narrative for sure. I've known people that have been in this situation before. It's like, we got to take the baby on the flight. The baby is going to cry because of the ears and all of that stuff. I get it. I know that that baby has to fly to see grandma. That baby got these kids got to go to Disney World. I want them to see Orlando.

I want your kids to go to Disney World. I just don't want to be on the same flight while y'all going. That's it. And if it's, and if it's, and I'm not saying keep them off the sky. Instead of a, instead of like a separate flight, what if we did like a panic room situation where we put all the bad babies like on the flight so we don't hear them? Separate but equal. Maybe.

Babies only. I'm not into it. But what I'm saying is, oh, a baby's only flight is actually the move. This is my thing. I've said that I would pay there should be a, there should be an adults only airline. mind. Kids only, people are saying we need more spaces for kids. Guys, I'll pay, I'll help. Raised taxes. Raising taxes.

More teen places. More meetings. This actually could be a business venture, man. This is a business venture. Teens need places to go. Kids need places to go. Kids, all these people that, I get it with, I'm a Disney adult. Right. So I go to Disney. People go, hey, Van, stay out of Disney. You know what? I'll stay out of Disney.

I'll stay out of Disney. You'd stay out of Disney to kick all these little badass kids off the plane. If I could just go to sleep on the plane. Maybe you just want to sleep on the plane. Maybe you need by the headphones. I fly all the time and this and now I've got a whole thing. I do the noise cancelling headphones with the deal, the whole deal. I'm trying to do it.

But I'm telling you, bro. And this was this is what really brought that on when I was on CNN this time. Okay. Okay. So when I fly CNN, people are acting like, When I fly C&N, they fly me Delta One. It's very nice. Very nice.

You get the lounge, too? The Delta One lounge, fantastic, right? Great, real well. It's very nice. It's very nice. They fly me there. When you're in the Delta One situation, you don't really expect to have certain things happen.

Right. And I'm on there. I see this lady and she's got two kids with her. They get on the plane first. I just know they're going to walk to the back, but they don't. This lady got that cheese cheddar cash. because she got her with a Delta 1 and she got the kids with a Delta 1

and then Delta 1 is going up at 3, bro. I would send the kids to the back. 3. Nah, you can't do that. That's cool. You can't do that. See, what's real fucked up, I've seen some celebrities with Netflix money

being the Delta 1 and sending their kids back to them. You can't do that. You can't do that. So I sit down and it's in the middle. It's like the window and then there's two Delta 1 reclines in this.

other side of almost these planes. But I'm in the middle. So that means I got somebody next to me. Do you have the partition for the thing? No. Not on this. Like you have a, you have your own deal. Right. Yeah. You lay flat and all that stuff.

But there's somebody next to me. And it's a kid. Right. And the kid. And the kid is cute. It's a cute kid. How old is this kid? Huh? How old is this kid? I'm going to go six.

Okay. Okay. Could be well-behaved. From L.A. to New York? I'm going to go six from L.A. to New York. And the kid looks over and he says, I got TV. Do you have TV? And I was like, oh, yeah.

That's cute. I was like, yeah, I got TV too. He's like, yeah, what are you going to watch? I was like, all right now. You only get one question. You get one question or the follow one? Everybody gets one. That's it.

That's it. I'm like, all right, no. I was like, I'm not going to watch nothing. I'm going to go to sleep. The whole way there? And so I'm starting to look around The plucky gods gotcha. I'm starting to look around like, you know, where is his mom?

I see the mom over there and guess what the mom is doing? Sleep. Before they even take off. The party hasn't taken off yet. She said that Zane. She's like me. She's like me for real. Don, baby sitter man hasn't taken off yet.

Baby-sitter man. The mother is sleeping. I feel like you buried the lead with this. Yeah, Uncle Van Nelson would be kids. But by the way. Was this a white child?

Obviously. Because it was a sister. I'm just like, nah, you got to. I'm going to be real. So the black kids that be on these flights

perfectly well behaved. I'm just going to be, if we want to keep it real, if y'all want to take it fucking further, if you want to take it further, the black kids that be on these flights

perfectly well behaved. Don't pass me on this. I'm just, sit down. Okay, here's a man, man. Sit down, Thune. iPad. The whole nine, they're chilling.

The white kid. I mean, he's a pet. I want to fly on the wing of the plane. Shut the fuck up. Shut up. Okay. I looked over. I looked over.

Mom's sleep. The lady comes over. The lady comes over. The lady comes over. She goes, she goes, you want orange juice? or do you want mimosa or do you want like the sparkling champagne

or whatever, whatever? I was like, I'll take the mimosas, the mimosas. I'll have the mimosas. So I get the mimosas, I'm drinking the mimosas. And she hasn't gone around to the other side yet. Right, sure. And the key goes, I want some orange juice. I'm like, yo, man, he's got licking it. Okay? They haven't taught you about licking yet.

Relax, right? Sit down. The flight attendant, I'm like, yo, could you put your seat? Could you put a seatbelt on for it? We have to take off and lay. Put the seatbelt on this green. Why don't you throw on some blueie for him and just let them vibe out? Why would I do that? I mean, you're doing everything else.

It's a community, man. You're a babysitter for five seconds of the social contract. But what I'm saying is this, man. I promise you guys, I love kids. I just don't love your kids. Right. I love the kids. I love Cy, Amari, Brooklyn, Leah, Riley,

R.J. Okay. So you either need to be related or have a friendship with their parents. If there's some random child, you're like, I don't fucking get... No, I love the random children too. But also, when I'm around

kids, I'm in a position to be. I've voluntarily been around them. So I know what comes with it. You feel me? So, like, when I'm around kids and I know kids are going to be around, I'm not going to go to Disneyland and complain about the kids. That's stupid.

I'm on now. their turf. How about this? I'm on their turf. I go to Disneyland kids running around. Hey, you little scamps, how you doing? Like, I'm on their turf. If I'm at a basketball game, not tripping kids got to go see, guy Kobe, all of that stuff, all of that stuff. Shared term.

But, like, the airplane is my turf. The airplane is your turf. Not everybody who's bought a ticket, but specifically your turf. It's the turf of adults. It's real adult shit happening in the airplane. Right. Real business. What adult shit is happening on an airplace? Economy, baby.

Can we feel? We're getting people around. Who's economy? You ever float economy? Yeah, exactly. No, no, no. I'm talking about the economy. Try to say with me, Joanie.

The, like, the economy. We're doing economic things. I'm flying for work. We're doing economic things. I'm like on the whole deal. Like, I'm flying for work. People are moving around. We're on our laptops, blah, blah, blah.

We're doing stuff. You know what I mean? Who's we? You sleep. Everybody before we get started after we land. I don't mind. You know what? There's a part of this.

It's another thing. Last thing. Seeing the kid in first class, I kind of feel played. I don't want to see you in the Delta Lounge. Nigger? No, how long it took me to get to Delta Lounge? And you just showed up? Yo, you hating all the Nepo babies?

Like, that's the problem. One time I was on a flight, Jayden Smith. Let me tell you something real quick. I'm going to tell the story. Oh, no. I'm on the, I'm on the jet blue. Mint. Also, fantastic. Shout out JetBlue. Right. JetBlue Mint. Okay.

I'm on the JetBlue Mint. You need a video of Van Ranking First Class. Yeah, yeah. Rank the first class lounges. Oh, right. Guys, you just already post credits. So I'll rank the first class lounges right now. Okay. Rank the first class. I'll rank, not the lounges. But, okay, no, I'll rank the first class lounges. Okay. All right. So number one is Delta One not even close. It's not even close.

Delta one is by all the best first class spares that you can get. Okay. Okay. Number two is American. American. Oh. Flagship business, flagship first. Okay.

All right. Number two, American flagship business flagship first. Very nice planes. They got the long haul plane that goes from L.A. to New York. And this plane is great. They got at the front, they got the dedicated first class. Uh-huh. Amenities breakdown.

Right, right. Then second, they got the business class on these flights where it's the two people, but it's still lay flat. Yeah. Right. And then they have maybe like 75 seats of economy in the back at these seats. Which you would know about. I haven't flown it for a while. I mean, I'm like, I flew it for enough.

I gave him 40 years of economy. I don't owe it nothing else. I flew it for a long time. And now it's like, and also. There's why people can't really connect with your opinion anymore because you're not one of us. You're not in the mud. You're not in the economy. Like, it's like you, these are bougie problems if we're being honest.

No, it's not. It's not boozy problems at all. You were in first classes not a bougie problem. You started by saying, I didn't need a kid being played. And then it's like, get to the rest of the show. It ends the band being like, I am the means of production. No, no, no, no. No, no, no.

No, it's not a bougie problem about. It's not a bougie problem. It's not a bougie solution. I'll tell you guys, y'all, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'll be honest with you, I'll tell you the way I look at this, and y'all haven't, maybe it hasn't happened yet, I worked my ass off.

Sure. Right. out there right now and you thinking he can suck my dick. I swear to God. I wasn't born into this. I'm from South Valley Rouge, Louisiana, and I worked for an entire decade. Hell yeah.

12 hours a day, five days a week in the gladiator pit of TMZ. I'm up at 4.30 every single day. I'm leaving home at 6 fighting traffic. Two hours. I earned it. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing

it, fuck what you think about it. All right. So I'll go back to rank. So we'll tell about that. I go, like, I'll go back to rank in the 30 percent. And then you'll have Jayden Smith and then we do have to get it. We got to get the Jayden Smith story. We will have a podcast. Okay. Yeah, well, maybe. So then you ask for it. So I'm going to do it. So then third

is, is JetBlue. Right. Very dependable. Sure. Fourth. United. Fifth, easily to me. Easily to me. I'm not talking about either. I'm not talking about the other. I'm not talking about the other. like Hawaiian and all of that stuff like that. I'm talking about the major.

Then the fifth to me, brad, Alaska. Damn. I thought you died it would be higher. Oh, nah. Alaska suck. Alaska is whack.

Alaska first class is not very nice. The lounge is terrible. You go to the Alaska lounge. They got like pre-heated eggs, faked up shit. It's not very nice. Don't want that. But at least you don't have to sit.

Also, I'm big and I don't have to sit. cramped. All right, cool. James Smith's story very quick. You get on a JetBlue flight, and I'm thinking, God damn, we have a light flight because one side of the JetBlue Mint is taken up. And then the other side of the JetBlue Mint is there's no seats. So it's like nearly empty.

It's not nearly empty. It's all empty. All empty. So everybody's getting on the plane. The plane is literally, we're sitting there. It's like it's the still before the plane is about to take off. And all of a sudden. the group that's going to get on

the plane comes and gets on the plane because something about the famous people that really fly commercial is they don't get on first and have everybody walk by them. They get on last after everybody's gotten on. And so people don't have to walk by and say, hey man, I love you and what happened with your dad and Chris Rock and all that shit.

And so Jayden Smith gets on, but it's not just him. he's gotten the entire left side of the plane for him and all his people. So, Jaden Smith, it's security. So it's like 20 people? No, it's not that big. But it's like that whole side of the plane

is for Jaden Smith and his people, whatever they get on there. And then I see it all my guys, Jaden Smith. They bring on food. They present the food to Jaden, Jaden, you know, eats the food. He has his own food. Sure, of course.

You're not eating that blue food. And then the lady comes down, and the lady sits down and she kneels in front of him. The story is something not bullshit Yeah, yeah The fire tenter she kneels in front of him She goes Okay, Mr. Smith, blah blah blah

And Jay's like Yeah, he's doing this with the thing He's at the earplows, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah And then she leaves And when she was walking away, I went I am Mr. Lathen And I paid for my shit So can you come check on me

And address me as And I'm gonna give her credit I'm gonna give this lady credit She turned around She laughed at that Okay, good, good She turned around, I was like, I was just joking. I was like, yo, I'm Mr. Lathen.

I'm like, and she turned around, she went, great, great. I ain't worked that hard yet. But if you think you booed, I work my fucking fingers to the bone. You can suck my dick. Anyway. Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But real doesn't start on a label.

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