The Ringer-Verse - 'Marvel Zombies' Deep Dive | Mint Edition

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

This week, Steve and Jomi are joined by Ringer writer Daniel Chin to share their spoiler-filled reactions to Marvel’s latest animated project, ‘Marvel Zombies.’ The trio discusses what worked, highlights the action, and breaks down where the series fell short. Intro (0:00)'Marvel Zombies' discourse (4:48)Outro (56:50) Hosts: Jomi Adeniran and Steve AhlmanGuest: Daniel ChinProducer: Devon RenaldoAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Oh, and welcome into the ringerverse, your nexus podcast feed for all things.

Fandom, I'm Steve Alman. I'm jumping in around. And this is Mint Edition, the once in a while podcast about all the latest family that you just can't live with out. Jomi, how are you doing? Doing good, man. Doing good. My body, listen,

here's the day, man. I'm getting old, bro. Oh, I thought you said your body was telling you yes. Nah. Your mind was telling you no.

What? Is that Arkelly? What is wrong with you? No, that stays in. Why would you, why would you do that? I forgot.

I forgot. You didn't forget. You didn't forget. I did forget. I really did forget. You really did forget. How was that something that you forgot?

How was that something that you forgot? I was about saying how, I was about saying how, I'm old, and every time I exercise, my body fights back. Every single time I don't fight back, though. I go to the, bro, there are muscles that are sore that I've never been sore before in my life, dog. Are you changing up the routine every week? I'm trying, but it don't matter.

I do arms. My arms hurt. Yeah. I do legs. My legs. I just like, bro, I thought I broke a rib. That's how much my side was hurting on Saturday. It was confusing.

All right. Final thing before we get to our guest, gentlemen, do you stretch? I do. I try. I'm not like super flexible, but every time I start the gym, my, my warm up is basically 50, 20 minutes of stretching. You got to stretch after. Maybe. No, no, you have to stretch after. You got to cool down. And especially, that's how you get tight after. That's how you get tight after. That's how you get tight after. I be tight to the mud. I know. That's why you got to stretch out. It's rewarding the muscles. That's how you get growth. That's how you get strength back. I do what I can. We're joined today by somebody who stretches off. All the time. Somebody who stretches all the time. Ring a writer extraordinaire.

Daniel Chin is on the program. Welcome, Daniel Chin. DC. What's up, guys? All the way from Spotify offices in New York City. Yep. How are we feeling? Doing all right.

You know, it's a hard opening to fall. It was not expecting that. Yeah. Yeah, Steve. That was crazy. Shetting a couple of tears before I even start talking for this pot. So I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to this one.

We have so many good practice runs before we officially start the pot. It's hard to. really get a good run going. Anyway, we're here and gathered today to talk about zombies, Marvel Zombies specifically. Over the weekend, we had an entire season of the next Marvel animated project drop. This one more hotly anticipated than some might have anticipated. Marvel Zombies, based on the Robert Kirkman run from 2005.

And we're going to be talking about that in a little bit. And probably about some of our other favorite zombie things. And if we can still do this in 2025, like, we're still doing. and the zombie shit. Is it worth it? We'll find out. But for now, we're going to talk about the things that are coming to the Ring of Verse feed this week. Coming soon, Ringiverse recommends. It's at the end of the month. Rent is due, and Ben Lindbergh is here to collect. All right. Jomi, you got your recommends? I do. You do? I do. All right. Not to spoil it for the people, but what type of medium is it?

It's a television show. It's a television show. Daniel Chin, I will be asking you for one later. What is yours? I have not come up with mine yet. I'm trying to get one. It's great. We are going to do. Like literally today. Perfect. Wonderful. Moving on.

We've got Ring Reverse recommends coming soon. And this Wednesday, the Midnight Boys, have probably the most demanded pod that we've ever mentioned before in a very long time. We're talking Demon Slayer Infinity Castle. We're talking, brother, this might be the most jam-packed, like so much stuffed episode of all time. We got Demon Slayer. We got Peacemaker Episode 6.

we have one battle after another discourse. Pretty much just the hottest movie of the year. We're locking in right now. Yeah, it's going to be a big one for Midnight Boys. And on the House of Ravit, don't forget they'll be doing a fall height meter along with their Stranger Things Season 3 revisit. But today, again, we are joined by Daniel Chin to talk about Marvel zombies and pretty much the legs and the longitude, if you will, of the zombie apocalypse story in the big 25.

So let's begin. Spoilers ahead for Marvel Zombies. Daniel Chin, some facts and figures before we get going. This is the fifth MCU animated project created by Brian Andrews and Zeb Wells. Based on the original Marvel Zombies' 2005-2006 run by Robert Kirkman with art by Sean Phillips. It ran for five issues and then spun out into Ultimate Fantastic Four and then a bunch of other spinoffs. We recently had a revival of the property in comics just this year. This is basically a alternate universe, seemingly, where a zombie apocalypse has broken out,

and we kind of join in MediaRes with a bunch of our late stage Marvel superheroes. I'll start with you, DC, with all the animated fare that we've gotten from the MCU so far. What did you think of this? And would you recommend it? I think it was fine overall, and honestly, that's the way I've been feeling about a lot of Marvel animation. Marvel animation's been really hit or miss for me. I've really loved some of it, like X-Men 97, but... This is very lukewarm for me.

I don't know if I would really recommend it, but around Halloween, it's only four episodes, quick viewing. Probably a good time to watch it then, you know? Joe Me a dinner on? I mean, I thought it was cool. I thought it was cool. You know, if I'm being completely honest with you and the audience, this was not something that I was, like, excited to get into.

Not because of the content, but just because of Marvel animation in general. Like, when I see the what if palette, I'm like, guys, it's going to sell me. But I think they did bring something together that was ultimately engaged and interested in. Nothing crazy, nothing to my helm about. Like, if you're into the MCU and these characters, I would say watch it because there is like a unique spin on these characters that we spend a lot of time with. But at the end of the day, it's just not as inventive as it should be, which is kind of the problem with the whole what if universe is that it has some interesting ideas and some cool moments. but overall it doesn't really live up to the to the lofty expectations not only that we set for ourselves but just that the universe like kind of promises and so ultimately you're left kind of wanting despite the fact it was kind of satisfying at the end of the day you're just kind of like this didn't live up to you know what it could have been the potential it could have had interesting i i i wouldn't say that i put many expectations on a show like this and i don't think that i wanted anything more than

what an MCU animated fare should be, which is probably just some solid storytelling and some animated fun. Granted, we haven't really gotten that from this animation team that much with all of the seasons of What If, because that's in the same style that we have here. But I actually, to its credit,

think that it kind of ran with this premise pretty well, and it seemed to have a lot more fun with its premise than most episodes of What If really have. Like, this is obviously spinning off from the original What If episode from Marvel Zombies, taking its, you know, heavy influence from that comic run. But I think these first few episodes are actually kind of the things that I think that what if wanted to play with and in a bit more of a connected story is doing pretty well.

It's avoiding a vignetted, like hard chapterization of a story like this when it comes to different characters in different settings and themes and then finally finding some weird way to come together at the end it's actually kind of building on each episode you know like a normal season of television would into a fun little epic conclusion that I think to its credit is pretty well animated

for this style because of this like interesting technique where they have the CGI animation along with some occasional flare from animated cells to like sort of highlight and make things pop Usually you see this in fight scenes or big explosions or sort of like big like fire-esque flares that come off of a character. I think that looks occasionally quite good and it really pops. DC, what did you think of like the animation style that comes from this?

Because again, what if? Pretty hit and miss. But this one I feel like might have actually kind of started to come into its own a bit. Yeah, I mean, I think for me it really shined during action sequences. Like there were some really good moments with, I guess, like he's going by Blade Knight. the name for this amalgamation. I was calling him Moonblade the whole time.

Yeah. It's pretty good. I think Blade Knight is what they're officially calling it, which is a terrible name. But anyway, the Blade Night moments, there were some really good ones. There was that Spider-Man,

like, when he decapitates, like, seven zombies or whatever. That was shown in the trailer. Like, there's some really fun moments with the action. But I think outside of it, it was just more of the same of What-EF, and I think it's just a little bit stale by now, especially after, what was there,

seasons of what if, two seasons? Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm inclined to agree with DC there. I think some of the action stuff was cool. The scene with Moonblade, as I'm going to call him, and ghost fighting at the end of episode one, I was pretty top tier. And I was waiting for more of that, and I didn't get that. So, you know, the scene with Thor fighting, the Queen of the Dead in episode three.

And even, to your point, some of the stuff at the end of episode four, like toward the end of the series was pretty cool. Hold with all the infinity energies and stuff like that. Yeah, it's like that little like fight scene at the end with, you know, everybody using their powers I thought was there was some like cool moments there. But again, there's moments, you know, I think it's few and far between of just like weaving all that stuff into cohesive story and then something that like you're so interested in throughout.

I don't think it quite nailed that if I'm being honest. Okay. If I can ask both of you, I'll start with you, Jomey. As far as like zombie storytelling is concerned, You've mentioned before that you're not really that big of a zombie guy. You've watched a few things. What are kind of like the major zombie stories in canon that you're familiar with?

The Last of Us. Last of us. That's pretty much it. That's it. I don't do dead people content because they're already gone. Right. So like what I'm saying? I think I tried to watch World War Z, but they were way too fast.

And that was like that. I don't like fat. So. And rivers of zombies, as you would say. I've seen Sean of the Dead. Okay. Sean Dead's great. Shout out Edgar Wright.

But my thing with zombies, and I think about this every single time, and I think now I'm much more, you know, mature, an adult now so I can look past these things. But I go, these bodies are decomposing, right? So that means you ain't got no ligaments. You know what I'm saying? It's really just kind of how you run is. That's why World War II was pissing me off.

So I'm like, you're not zombies for real. Because y'all, y'all running. Yeah, no, it's just a rage virus. You're saying. But, like, the whole point, and you're not, if you're supposed to be decapitating your jaws barely hanging on, and you can, like, you're supposed to just be like a noodle. Zombies, like, shout up the walking dead for the most part.

Zombie's supposed to be slow. He's supposed to only be effective in large numbers, right? And you're supposed to be able to get rid of a zombie pretty quickly. Right. Right. So anytime it's like, outside of that, I'm kind of like, yo, what in the world? now again, I'm an adult, I'm mature. I have seen the air of my ways.

I'm like, listen, it's a fake story. I have grown Odin's son. Guess what, guys? People don't come back from the dead. They don't, they put the hand up outside the dirt. Like, I'm still alive. So really, they can do whatever they want. It's a fake story.

Who cares? All right, so what I'm hearing from this is that Jomi took a very, an embarrassingly long time to know that zombies aren't real. No, it's just, Daniel. Every time they run fast, I'm like, you can't do that. You don't have an ACL. Hell. You don't have an Achilles.

Some of them do. How are you supposed to be able to catch up? Brother, it should like, you, like, it's, again, I know it's fake, guys. I want to understand, I'm just, I can only be myself. And so when you cut a zombie half, the zombie should be dead. How you move when you ain't got no legs? You're crawling with your arms? What?

It don't make no sense. But it's fine. Anyway, yeah, no, it's just like, for me, like, I never really got into it outside of like one off things like Sean of the Dead. But I played the last of us during the pandemic, which was a mistake, by the way. Big mistake. Super. I didn't play the second one.

I was like, I'm going to play the first one. Oh, okay. Thank God you didn't play the second one because I released during COVID. I was like, I'm going to play the first one so I can play the second one. Right. And I played the first one. I said, you know what? It's not for me.

The much happier game of the two, I will say that. It's because, you know, you sleep all day and then you game all night. Yep. And it's 1 a.m. And I'm getting, I'm trying to fight this, this bloater. bro. And I'm, I'm, I'm, nah, dog. Nah, dog. That's for y'all. Y'all. I start playing at 2 p.m. All the lights on. Like, once, what's the sunset? I said, that's enough. That's no more, no more last of us for me. Slight diversion. Daniel Chin. Are you on TikTok? I am not on TikTok now. Okay, Jomi, I know you are.

Yes. You scroll a little bit a little bit. Do you ever get fed, like, spooky TikToks once the sun goes down? No. No? No. Every once in a while, I get, like, fed, like, amateur level internet Blair Witch project level stuff. No. And it's all fake, but people really put their whole foot into making, like, scary found footage content. And I kind of, and I'm very indulgent when I'm like, you like, okay, I like getting spooked a little bit.

Because then they incorporate that into, like, real world, like murder mystery stories of the world. And I'm curious, Daniel, getting back to. the MCU of it all. There's an indulgence of violence that I feel so refreshed by in this show that I actually probably is my biggest takeaway from it. I think that we haven't really seen something that looks like this and is this violence since probably like a werewolf by night level of fare where there's gore and like it's granted it's zombie killing and it's a lot of just like, you know, inviscera just like

chop a head off like chop your limbs off and stuff like that. But it's occasionally very creative where you see like muscles hanging out and like people just exploding out of people. Did you like that, especially for a bit more of a TVMAification of the MCU while still maintaining a bit more of a, I don't know, like kids level PG-13 level sort of charm to it? Did that work for you? I think some parts of it worked for me, like from a visual standpoint. I did like a lot of it because, again, I think the action really did shine in this show. and I think a lot of that was helped by the creative freedom that they had to just do whatever. Like they can have something like Spider-Man popping off all the heads of zombies.

Obviously, they're not going to be able to do that, even in animated if it's like live, like, humans. Sure. Because like you can just- Not in a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, no. Right. You're not seeing that in your friendly neighborhood of Spider-Man. I think where it didn't work for me, though, is when they're trying to inject comedy into all these, like, gory moments because it's like, there are times where a major character will die and, like, they just, like, have, like, a classic MCU, like, quip about it. Like, I feel like a lot of, like, the Jimmy Wu, like, Randall Park being there is just a lot of, like, joking, like, with, like, death dealer, all that stuff. That had some of the way. He was turning fits this show, by the way, too.

Respect my guy. James Wu. Hey, I love Randall Park. I love Jimmy Wu. But, for example, just like something like that, you have all this comedy being put into these horrific and, like, extremely gruesome situations. So I think it's hard to just really strike that balance. and there's a lot of the MCU tones still being there, which I felt like didn't really work for me.

It's tough, obviously, because it's still an animated series. You still don't want to, you still want to make it, like, family friendly enough. But I think that's where, like, that you can't really have both and really execute it that well to me. I would say on the violence front, the zombie, I guess it's technically a zombie kill, but a lot of the zombie stuff wasn't, like, insane or intense, especially as they were talking about it, they're like, oh, we go crazy. with the stuff on there. And it was kind of, honestly, it was kind of tame.

But the one thing that I will say got me was at the beginning of episode three when they're fighting in Maconda and Thor comes down and zombie Thanos uses the gauntlet. Oh, right. Rocket, Thor, and Groot. Just get obliterated.

Well, it obliterates Rocket to the point where all the skin and muscle and firm melt away. It's that Terminator like nuke going on. off at the fence. Explosion level stuff. And you watch all the, like just turn into bone and then the, his skull comes back down. I was like, oh my gosh, not rocket.

Oh, they're finding, they're going to start cooking now. Let's go. And they kind of don't. I mean, I would. Listen, Tachala was putting in work with just one leg. One leg. That's my go. That's pretty great.

That's my goat. He was really crawling like a panther. Right. But it was like, I was like, okay, cool, this is how are we doing for real. They made like, it was, they, I don't know if you guys noticed this. They were, they were really trying to infinity war the whole thing up with like the credits and stuff. Right.

You know, it was just like the little tight face. And I was like, I, it's pretty cool. I like that intro where it's just like, like a loud title card, Marvel zombies. Like there's a lot of like tone setting and like production level mood that is good here. And I guess like Yelena's mom, Rachel Weiss's character. like get stabbed in the chest by Okoyet. That was, I was pretty rough. Elena's death not really,

it's not really crazy, you know what I'm saying? She just kind of like, like, disappear. Like, she's like alive and then the whole thing explodes at the end, whatever. Jimmy Wu, the death dealer, that was pretty, that was pretty tough. I'm not going to lie, because you see like Jimmy Wu say like pop up, you know what I mean? Right. And so, like, to see the main characters get got was. Played for laughs in some cases.

I wouldn't say play for laughs. The Jimmy Wu one was. That was definitely playing for laughs in that one. I think that's part of my issue with, with like they clearly are putting more weight to some of these deaths, which I think makes sense. But it's like at some point, like I think part of the fun of a show like this is that like nobody really has like plot armor.

But then like once you get to get to these like later episodes and you see how much weight that some of these deaths are having, it's like you, all right, they're clearly going to mark this person as being important, which makes sense. But I don't know. I think for me it's just like, when you're trying to rush so much story in the span of four episodes,

it just gets a little messy. And I think that's my overall big picture, like part of like the problem with this series. It's like, I think if they had a lot more space to work with, a lot of the things that I liked about it, because there were things I liked about it. If they had spread it out and really worked on like character development,

character building, it would have worked a lot better to me. Speaking of character development, though, I will say one of the things I will give the show credit for is putting Amman Volani in the driver's seat. as our one character. She needs more reps in the MCU. I thought especially at the banter between her, Rie, and Kate at the beginning.

Young Avengers agenda, let's get it cracking. Let's go. I was sitting there and I was like, this is the show. Maybe they're not fighting zombies, but this is the future. Also still pretty brave to know that those two will just get got. And Imman is just on her own now. Well, first of all, Iman is just on her own now. Well, first of all, Imani is cheaper, so it was easy.

Probably. You could tell that the budget, ah, Florence Pugh, got to go. Well. You know, David Harbor show up all the time. David Harbor love to do it. Here's the thing. So it's easy. On the celebrity voice cast front, we recently had a interview with Elizabeth Olson

just over across the street down at L.A. Comic-Con where she was asked about her role in Marvel Zombies. And she's like, I literally haven't seen that. I recorded that years ago. 30 years ago. And I had no idea what I was saying or doing. And I'm very sorry, but I don't know what you're talking about. So, I mean, A, Daniel, do you believe that?

Is she kind of just playing her hand to be like, hey, yeah, we're not too much in the mix in the MCU nowadays? Or do we think that that is like, because obviously, it's a lot easier to get people in a recording booth and just like, say, would rattle off some lines, especially knowing that they're going to be in there for like one episode and stuff like that. Do you think that this is a bit more, it could have been a bit more? thought out if they could have just actually maybe, again, sacrilege recast them just as voice over artists to maybe have a bit more of an involvement

with there, because that's my main problem because, again, like, your issues with the story being like, okay, whenever we have somebody that either died or we're either being told where we need to go for this McGuffin to be dealt with or the plot goes here, and people are mourning certain characters' death over there, all we hear about is who they are, what they do,

or why they're important to me after years of context. Rather than, hey, you're cool or you've done these things in this moment. What have you done for me presently? Rather than it still presumes you to know all these people and what they've done and how important they are to all these things. So when they show up, they're like, I, Yelina Belova, we love you, you're great. And that's all that they do.

And that's pretty much the main problem with, this and many other of the MCU stories where you point and be like, oh, yes, zip, zap, Zoop. We know you from Zubzab Zip, and you're about to do the thing. That's great. Jomey, did you have a problem with that,

or do you think we should be recasting our voiceover artists for animated fair? Just for the sake of more story, because obviously you're not going to get these people for that long. Maybe. I don't know if it matters if the same people are riding the stuff, right? Because when I think about it,

It's cool to have Elizabeth Olson voicing Scarlet Witch. It's great to have Tessa Thompson coming back as Valkyrie. But then I think about it and I go, like, is there, if they're just telling us a story, we're not even pretending it's like MCU with Jason. It's just like, we're telling the story of Marvel Zombies the way we want to tell it. Does it, could it make for a bigger, better experience?

And I don't know, because again, the same people who did what if are behind this to an extent and it's like it didn't really hit it just it just really didn't no and so do they have the creative wherewithal to bring a like a story it's not because it's not even like a big large spatic story you know what i mean like it's yeah it's just a fun little adventure for four episodes right can they give us something maybe they need but even if they had more time because even in this one you kind of like all right what's going on? You feel like,

what's happening here? You know what I'm saying? Let's get to it. And so ultimately, it's like, I don't know if I trust these people, even with, like, all right, we're not shackled by Elizabeth Olson's writer, you know.

Tessa Thompson doesn't need only 30 minutes to come in and do her lines. You know, anybody could come in and cook. I don't know if I trust them to, like, still make a compelling show, even without those restrictions. Right. But, you know, we have certain restrictions, but like not all.

Like, take friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, for example, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Pretty much a brand-new voice cast with an occasional sprinkling of celebrity cameos in there. We had Daredevil show up. For 15 minutes on his lunch break. Exactly. Like, he was probably, they probably just shoved a microphone in his face on set of Daredevil and was like. I'm pretty sure that's legitimately what they did. Yeah.

He would film those in between takes on Daredevil. I swear to God. Yeah. Like, he's just, that's just how we go. It's cool. I want to say novelty because I don't think that's fair. But it's a cool little, oh, yeah, cool. Hey, look at that. That's nice. You know what I mean? But to build a whole show around, it was always tough. And we found that out, like, at the end with what if. I feel like, yeah, maybe it did limit them a little bit to doing the crazy stuff.

I mean, it's that. And also their assistance to make Captain Carter the centerpiece. Hey, and listen, D.C., are they going to be? be beating the churn allegations knowing that we were not given Captain Carter at any point during this show. I mean, they knew. They knew that we were sick of it. They had to know. And listen, no disrespect to the

character of Captain Carter. It's just like, you used her a lot. Yo, Mayor Carter, that's the home girl. Yeah. And I'm saying? But, like, D.C., can you build a championship team around Captain Carter? I don't think in 2025, I don't think you can't. I think the big issue for me, though, is just like, with what if, it's obviously very different

because you have a lot of the one-off episodes and an anthology style show. I think you can get the big voices for something like that because you're only having them come in for one episode, for some of them for multiple episodes. But with this, when you're trying to actually stretch a real story across four or however many episodes it is, it's, it's, it's like two hours, two straight hours. It's harder because like something with like Elizabeth Olson, I totally believe that she did not remember any of this because her story is just like not existing in this.

Like you have no idea what she's doing the whole time. Even though she's billed as pretty much the big bad. Right. There was a lot of like, it reminded me of kind of all the issues that I had with multiverse of madness where it's like they've kind of just taken all of the work, all the really nice character work that they did in Wanda Vision and just thrown out the window because you just have, like, she's just reduced to being a witch monster, you know? It's like they could do a lot more with the war they already have built, but really they should just be building up a story from the ground level with this and just doing it over a longer stretch of time. And I think to Jomi's point too, like I really loved the beginning. of episode one where it's like a little road trip vibe, the Young Avengers, you have Rui, Kate, and you have Kamala. And it's like, I think they could have done that for like two,

three episodes. And I would have been happy. Like if they, if they just stretch this out to really play to the strengths of what animated series are, going for, for 10 episodes at least, I think this would have been a lot more effective. That's the same issue I had with Oz of Wakanda, too.

It's like, I like, I like the concept, but they're just not letting it run enough. or DC, check this out and like see if you follow me here. You take Riri, Kate and Miss Marvel, right? And you maybe add, let me see, stature, maybe the Hulk kid from She-Hulk and then Patriot from the Falk Winter Soldier

and you make that live action. And then you have these, I don't know, they're kind of, what are they, like kind of young and they're Avengers adjacent. maybe the small Avengers adjacent team and you have them go out and do something. Maybe. Maybe a workshop.

I don't know, man. I feel like you should probably tease that out for the better part of a decade and then still do nothing with it. I think that's probably better. I think that's a good idea. But yeah, again, to just piggyback off that, D.C., that was the best part, right?

Them, like, just like going to USS or her or whatever. Engage, number one, like, the little banter, it just, that felt like so real and natural. And so I felt when, like, when they died allegedly, because, you know, no body, no crime, you know. If you don't see the body, then they're alive. And I think pretty sure they hinted that Ree-Ree's alive. Ree-R-R-R-R-A-R-R-A, for sure.

Yeah. But when I, when I see that, I go, oh, that, that's lovely. I would like to see more of that. And when they die, I go, no, not R-R-R-R-Kate. Those were Kamala's friends. But then when Yelena died, honestly, if I'm being completely honest, when Yelena died, man, they didn't really move me that much. I was kind of, that's my girl.

I love her. When, like, they do have the, you know, we mourn them, like, we honor them. We don't mourn them. We honor them with every breath we take. That was real. But I was kind of like, all right. But also honored them by eating. Right.

But then when, again, I think, and again, this brings it all back to Amman Volani being the star of this thing because when Yelena died she was I mean she wasn't it was really more David Harbour's moment and like again I understand that relationship but watching the show I wasn't really into it

but then when David Harvard goes and Imman Valani is like watching him be a zombie and she's like no I'm like that felt something I think the show did it did a good job it knew well enough that this is the person that we anchor our emotions around and we will go the show goes through her which i understood and

liked a lot but i still feel like i didn't do it enough it wasn't her show enough and if i if we had to like look back and go how do we fix it i think she is like it's the whole the whole show there's i want to say there's no scene without her because i don't know if that you can do that but the whole show runs through her like the sean uh katie little san francisco little san francisco little joseph i Jaunt. Yeah. At the beginning of episode two, cool,

she needs to be there. Right? Like, it was, like, I got, like, I could understand,

like, the, the narrative they were trying to spin, uh, like taking that little detour. But the show needs a mom, Vlani to be,

like, like, honestly doing a lot for it to, like, for, if it was ever going to reach a level of, oh, yeah,

this is something that you can, like, really recommend to people, even if they're, like, into the MCU or into zombies or whatever it may be. Because I don't know if you like, do you like the MCU?

If you love the MCU, then you'll enjoy this. Do you like zombies? Maybe, like, I can't really, I can't really give it that kind of seal of approval because it really doesn't do anything outside of be like, all right, yeah. Like, Amman Velani school, but outside of that, it doesn't do anything crazy or special

to warrant any other look. And so if they lean more into Iman Vallani and her talents as a, not only as an MCU character, but just as an act, actor and what she brings to Kamala. Man, sorry, now I watch too much news. Yeah.

If the show leaned more into what she brought us Kamala Khan, I think we're having a different conversation. Like, I think some of the core tenants might still be there, but we, I mean, we could still gush about what she did and how great she was in the show. But then I could literally tell people like, oh, you got to go watch it, man. Imavallani's doing great work over there. I mean, honestly, actually, you know what, I talk myself into it. Go watch it.

Because she's great. And she deserves me and everything. And she's amazing. She's the perfect Miss Marvel. The MCU needs to find more, more reps for her in live action. She was the best part of, I mean, obviously her show. She carried that thing. And the best part of the Marvel's.

And the best part of Marvel's. And the best part of Marvel zombies. Yeah. Let Miss Marvel cook. Let him all right cook. I think she was a great choice just because her whole foundation is her being an Avengers super fan. I think they could have leaned into that even more. The fact that she has to fight against all the zombie version.

versions of the people that she's grown up idolizing. But I think, again, it just goes back to the issue of just there not being enough time. She's really the only one that can have any semblance of an arc. With everybody else, a lot of it is just going off of the MCU lore in a way where you're just manufacturing a lot of the emotional stakes and emotional drama because you know these relationships. And that's helped with the voice actors being there too. But it's like, it's never really going to be able to carry itself as its own series

with just going off of the lore that already exists. I don't think there's really anything that we could probably say that would have improved the situation that Marvel puts itself in whenever they have these concepts for a TV season that end up being animated

while still wanting to create a sort of new edge for it. Obviously, this probably spun off from the success of the Marvel Zombies episode. And then they threw in a couple more episodes from that premise but I'm curious as to see whether or not they can actually really lean into a bit more mature aspect

of that animated storytelling because it seems to really just want to have its cake and eat it too and that's kind of the thing that it's suffering from the most because if I were to, because I've read like this new run of Marvel zombies and that, knowing that zombies can like still have their superpowers and still be flesh-hungry monsters like seeing Reed Richards as a zombie nightmare fuel

to know that he what he can do to try to kill somebody with stretching powers as a zombie absolutely nuts that make any sense but but it's but it's cool don't got no lens that's the exercise though that's the exercise he ain't got no tenders I he's supposed to stretch he got no tendons yeah but that's exactly the point that you made he doesn't have an ACL he doesn't need an ACM he'd just be a gloop he'd be sloped exactly you know he'd just be

He's not even walking around. He'd be like a puddle. Yeah, but what if a zombie version of Reed Richards, like, wraps his entire self around you and, like, wraps himself around your fingers and, like, snaps all those things open? And, like, because that's what he's doing in this comic book. Like, that's the level of creative violence and mature storytelling that I kind of want to see in a Marvel thing.

Like, actually go crazy. Actually go crazy. That is a question I was having a whole time because Hawkeye can still shoot arrows. O'Coyek is still I would have loved if zombie like Hawkeye was just like shooting at the ground like not really knowing how to do it

I tell you what and I can't believe we just not talking about this go go god right when he showed back up I was locked in I'm not gonna lie

I missed that dude I was like oh yeah I forgot that they had him angry Nemore is pretty nuts it was cool but like I'm watching all these guys use their powers the only person who can't use their power

was Thanos And it was really funny because I had to explain it. Right. That was like, yeah, you know, the power of the gauntlet, you know, his mind. Right. He could barely control it. I was like, no, I see what y'all are doing. Everybody else.

You just wanted to have Thanos again. Well, no, well, no. Everybody else can use their powers pretty good. Zombie, you know what I'm saying, but zombie. But Thanos of the gauntling, you know, you had to make an excuse. So he didn't like wipe everybody out immediately. Whereas opposed to the Hulk, this is actually probably the closest thing kinotically to actually understanding how powerful the Hulk can.

be. Like truly. Truly. Because he can absorb almost all energy. And then you just have like those viral battle simulator videos of it's like one Kermit the Frog versus the armies of Sparta. And he's just like karate chopping him in waves. And they're all dying in like on mass.

Like that's great. I mean, I'm be honest. It looked cool. It was kind of whack. How was it whack? It was man whack. Infinity Hulk. Come on, man.

Let's be, let's be cool. I was going to ask, how do you guys feel about the way that they kind of merge these two storylines? Because to me, I felt like that was a little bit sloppy too, just in the sense that they're connecting the what-if zombies characters and that storyline to the new one that they're inventing around. Here we go again with the what-if stuff where I'm like, this is every, this is how I want every MCU thing from here on out that is not having to do with the movies begin.

All right, you ready? It's just like Star Wars. Somewhere in the multiverse. Dot, dot, dot, start your show. That's all. That's all we need. That's all I need to do. We get it at this point.

We know that this isn't the thing. We know this isn't canon. We're just having fun. Just say somewhere in the multiverse. And then it can be a what if thing because it already is. That's all of this stuff is anyway. Jomi, am I crazy? No.

I mean, there's always room for expanded storytelling among these universes. It really doesn't matter. I just think that it was, to Daniel's point, it was just really sloppy at the end there. I understood what it was looking like and they started reverencing the Wakanda event. I'm like, what does, what does that mean? Like, what, okay, so they exploded in a bunch of vibranium

and so the only part, like, like, I got it. Like, I'm not going to say here and say I didn't understand it, but just didn't, it wasn't cohesive enough to where it felt natural. Fair enough. And the story. And then again, the infinity hoax show up. And I'm like, okay, cool.

I can understand why it makes sense. He's gamma radiation. And you need somebody who can tank the energy stones. Sure, except for the fact that he's, I guess he was smart hoax, but he snapped and it almost fried his arm. So we're just kind of playing fast and Lucy Goosey with the rules here. Yeah, which I understand. The comic books are doing that. Again, which I understand, which again, I'm not mad at.

but you're not going, I'm not just going to sit here and, like, just take it, right? You're not going to be really silly with me. Like, yeah, okay, sure, why not? Boom, we're just going, whatever, whatever goes, whatever goes. Man, Jomey's a little allergic to fun right now. I'm not allergic to fun. I'm just like, little allergic to fun. No, I see what you're saying, though, Jamie.

Like, you want this thing to be serious, right? You want it to take itself seriously. Right, and it's not. You can only explain that, like, logistically in 10 seconds. Yeah, if you're going to start. If you're going to start murdering people and doing the whole thing and taking this to, like a TVMA level. I get it.

But you can't also, you can't have your cake and eat it too where it's like, I want this thing serious. I want them to take these things and he steams

seriously. And they also like, oh yeah, by the way, Hulk can just, he just infinity Hulk now. Yeah. And he,

not only can he like destroy waves of every single zombie that's ever existed, but he also needs 30, he needs a 30 minute half time to get back up.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's be for real. Let's be serious. Yeah. I mean, all right.

That's fair. The setup for all of it was just very rushed too where the whole Wakanda event is happening as Spider-Man is literally narrating it. Like he's doing a voiceover for what happened. He's summing everything up, which was essentially just everything that that what-if episode was leading up to. Like, I would have much seen a full episode of that, you know?

Like rather than just hearing it narrated it, like hearing Spider-Man talk about the Chala saying like Wakanda forever under his breath, I was like, this guy can't be serious right now. You can't just have somebody say that. You can't have... So... So... I...

I hear you, and I'm inclined to agree, except for the fact the reason they didn't do that is because they wanted to continue to honor Chadwick Bosman. And so you have Spider-Man narrating, which I assume was something

that they wanted to do in the... When they first planned this out, but with no Chadwick available, they couldn't. And so ultimately, they just decided, let's have Spider-Man narrate that event.

And so I was like, I see it. I understand. I get it. I'm like, while I do, I should have we come from, D.C., I'm like, you know, they're trying to continue to honor the legacy. But can you, can you level with me and being like, okay, that's a little? You hate that? You hate that. You hate that.

It's not ridiculous. I understand where you're coming from, but to not have a character, say, a single line. Audience, audience. A man died. I understand. A man died. And Steve kind of like, hey man,

you could have said something, though. That's crazy, Steve. But I don't know if you're really honoring his memory in this way because you're just taking away the character's voice. You know, like he just doesn't, he just has no agency in this situation. Which again,

by the way, we don't actually know this is why they did or did not make that choice. That could have just literally been a creative choice that we disagree with. In fairness, I assume the same thing. I thought that that was probably the rationale. But I think there's just,

just don't do it then. Like, I feel like there's, like, the outcome that they chose, the solution that they found was not it for me is basically what I'm saying. And for the fact that we have the whole narration of the Wakanda event lead into just the setup for the last episode, which was kind of just the mashup of all that happening, the Infinity Hulk of things. It was very reminiscent of just like the third act collapse of Marvel movies, which is why I was like baffled that this could still happen in like this setting of an animated setting, like where you can just, you have. have a lot more creative freedom where you don't have to worry about, like, all the logistics that come with live action stuff where they're rushing and like the CGI problems that they have. I just didn't think that they needed to rush like the ending this way that much. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything

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So I'm looking at something from Screen Rant, Ash Cross, and talked to Brian Andrews, the showrunner of Marble Zombies, and Brad Winterbaum, an executive at Marvel about why they didn't recast Tachala. And Brian Anderson said this, end quote, yeah, for all the reasons you laid out, that's why we chose to have Peter narrate that moment. We didn't have Chadwick. If we had Chadwick, it would have been completely different choices.

If we had Chadwick, we would have had his own Star Lord Tachala spin-off show long before he did the zombie thing. But being able to revisit his character in that way, the way it plays out, it was another way to be with him in some strange way, even though there were no words. You know what I mean? it's still Chadwick's Black Panther and that's rad.

And Brad Winterbaum talked about like showing it to Ryan Coogler and having some ideas. But the whole thing goes back to Chadwick not being there. Right. And that they're not going to recast it. Which is why like, again, I can, while like, yeah, narratively it's kind of like, okay, a little weird. I get it. I understand. Sure.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. But anyway, to wrap up, DC, any final thoughts? Marvel zombies. Would you recommend? would you say maybe skip it if you're really down with the cause

maybe see it if not totally understandable I think baseline you have to be a fan of the MCU if you're a fan of the MCU definitely watch this show if not absolutely stay away from this show that's the main mileage that we've more or less been running with for a little bit here

Jomi say you say you the same I think I'd say the same I think what I'm interested to see going forward about it is A is there a season two because at the end Rie Rie, like, you think that Kamala has come back to a world and it's all great. By the way, her taking the hand of Scarlet Witch after everything they've been through, crazy. Nuts.

But I get it. I understand. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you get desperate and you got to make the call. Yep. I'm there. But she thinks she's back in the world and Ruby's like, no, it's fake. They've got to cut the signal.

Now, what that means? Who knows? I intrigued is a strong word, but I am curious as to what that could mean because if Scarlet which is the person controlling the world, then why is she like, you got to cut the feed or whatever it is? It sounded very, like, technical, you know what I mean? So I was very like, huh, what could this mean?

And there's no, like, season two announced, if I recall correctly. And so... Not that we know of, no. Right. And so I'm kind of like, I don't know if this did enough for season two, but at the same time, I'm not... If they, again, and how we used to make TV, People would make a season TV.

We would go, here's how you fix that. And they would make another one. Like, great, you nailed it. This is what we're talking about. And so I'm willing to give everybody that chance. And so Zubwell's Brad, Brad Winterbaum, if you're listening, lock in. You got, there's some good bones here. Okay.

If you can give us something, if you can give us something that really leans into Imman Volani's talents as an actress. And also. Maybe her own movie. I don't know. Maybe just think like that. Maybe. Well, let's not.

get crazy. Let's let's come on. Why not? Why not? I would love it, brother. We would go see it. We would. We would. We would love it. The street's not. The street's not doing that, bro. I know the Marvels, you know, came out during the strike, the whole thing, so it was tough. Yeah. That movie made $3.99 at the box office, bro.

Not, did not do well. You could, you could buy two, three musketeers with how much money that movie made at the box office, bro. Yeah. That's it. So, like, let's, let's keep it a bean. Let's keep it a bean. But no, like there are some things that this can build on. So if there is a future for Marvel Zombies, I welcome it. Like, they'd have to lock in for real. But this season, it didn't quite hit the marks that it should have.

But, you know, what can you do? I would agree. I would agree. If you're a massive fan of this stuff, please, by all means. There's a couple of fun things. But I think most of the highlights you probably already seen on TikTok or the internet anyway. So, you know, at your own discretion. Your mileage may vary.

Okay, so just to end up here, I just was thinking about zombie movies and TV shows and like the post-apocalypse in general. We had 28 years later finally come out this year to a pretty big fanfare. Not sure if you saw that, D.C. I did see it. Okay, good.

Big fan. Did you enjoy it? Loved it. Great. I have not yet seen it, but I keep finding myself in like 25 being like, man, if zombies are still the thing, if they still can be the thing,

what do they really got to do to actually be compelling because again, 28 years later, a long-awaited sequel to in the 28 days later franchise, it didn't feel to me like it would have had those types of legs. Obviously, The Walking Dead was a massively successful show. There's still echoes of that for all these things, but it feels like we've kind of moved past that with like a sort of like, in the vein of post-apocalyptic storytelling, it's either going to be like the fight against AI or pandemics or things that are a bit more real world or societal collapse rather than, the kind of fantastical world of zombies or zombie viruses or stuff like that.

I guess I'll throw this to either both of you, to either one of you, excuse me, and ask, like, do you think that zombies still have like a stake in post-apocalyptic storytelling? Are you still compelled to see a zombie show or a movie nowadays in 2025? I wouldn't say that zombie content is cooked. I think that's unfair because they're still making walking dead stuff. And they will still make

another season. How many spin-offs are they on for the walking? Too many. Bro, I was just on the Wikipedia is O'D, D, bro. This is when you need Ben Limburg because Ben Lindberg is locked into They took that franchise.

There are six main Walking Dead spin-off series. They squeezed it for every. The Walking Dead, Walking Dead World Beyond, Tales of the Walking Dead, Dead City, Daryl Dixon, and the ones who live. They took that series and milked that cow so dry. It is, it is nuts.

Exactly. It's like, good morning, sunshine. It's just the farmer with a bunch of buckets. And the cow is like, yeah, that's what they've done, the Walking Dead. I feel like in 2025, you can still, you'd have to, like, not insanely reinvent it because 28 years later is a sequel to 28 weeks later, and 28 days later.

We're getting the last of us season three in 20, When they decide to come out, we're getting the last of us re-release yearly, as we always do. We're not really getting any new zombie stuff. Like new takes on zombies? No. Are you saying? Just new, like, I'm talking about, guys, I have a new story about zombies.

The zombie apocalypse. Yeah. Yes. Here's a new thing that zombies are doing. There was none of that. So, well, I think we've obviously reached the apex of zombie culture. We're just getting the retreads. of all this stuff, which unfortunately does not bode well.

This seems like, I'm going to say the beginning of the end, but like we're getting towards the time where we just like forget zombies. Remember vampires? Oh yeah, we had a big vampire assault. I was actually just going to bring up vampires as a counterpoint though because vampires are doing pretty well right now. Yeah, but like they're literally sexier.

Well, no, but I'm saying like there was a time when vampires were the movement and it came down. We was in the zombies. and to DC's point, we're bringing, we're coming, kind of coming back on vampires.

I mean, where are werewolves in this, in this equation, right? Because it was like kind of twilight was kind of like

the zombie werewolf, but the werewolf didn't really take off for real. You know what I'm saying? They got the bride coming out at some point. That seems crazy.

We're bringing Frankenstein back. Like, well, that's the thing. The universal monsters of the like the frankincines, the traconsons,

the mummies, etc. Yeah. Yeah. Monster War, I feel like that's well translated because that's become like mythology. That's become like, okay, how can we make interpretations of like one character that is the ethos of one thing? The idea of zombies like being a metaphor for almost anything, like there were great metaphors for it in The Walking Dead. There were great metaphors for it in 28 days later. Now this is becoming trot upon to where once we get to something that's been as like high profile as the last of us, that guy.

got Emmy nominations. That was in big contentions for things. Obviously, and Walking Dead as well. I'm not trying to ignore that. But to prestige, I think we've out-prestaged zombie storytelling. And now I think that, like, it's actually kind of hit a sort of middle ground to where this can actually be fun. I don't know about, like, the prestigeification of vampires, let's say, or monster movies. Daniel, do you think that those have some legs still?

Or are we still kind of like, should we tone it back a bit and just have fun? with it because we've had like all of these like fun Swedish horror movies that are like low budget but like a group of like zombies that have been frozen on a hill like pop up and they were all Nazis from World War II and now we've got to kill Nazi zombies and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean I think for me the beauty of having zombie like zombie or vampire movies and stuff is just you can do so much with it. Like it's also adaptable even just like keeping it to vampire still like the contrast of having something like nosferatu, which is something that I didn't love it, but it's aiming for more of that prestige type audience.

You have that and you have something like sinners, complete polar opposites. You can have something on TV like what we do in the shadows. There are so many ways that you can just have so much variety. I think there's definitely a little bit more you can do with that than zombies. But to a little bit of a lesser extent, you have something like The Last of Us. I think the last of us season two wasn't what we wanted it to be, of course. It's still very solid television, still prestige television. With something like 28 years later, I really love that movie, and it's the start of a new trilogy.

So I think that there, and Danny Boyle still has it. It still very much has a lot of the creative energy that I feel like the original had. And the next one's coming out in January. So I think, well, I'm really curious to see like where this trilogy goes from here. Like, Nia Acosta is directing that as well. Hopefully it does better than the Marvels did. because I think she has town. I'm pretty sure it would.

I'm just saying she has a better follow up. If the three of us go watch it, it'll do better than the Marvels did. Again, Domi, this is some relentless dragging on the Marvels. But again, the box office doesn't lie. Be honest. Yeah. It's not a lie. Y'all didn't see it.

You could rent a movie on Amazon for $199 and you would have made, you would have paid more money. Oh, so you bought the whole movie. Yeah, no, look, sorry. Look, the Marbles didn't have made their money. I know what you want me to say. But, yeah, no, hopefully, what's the bone temple? Bone Temple, yeah. Like, yeah, I think Alex Garland, he's got, like, a pretty good handle on that universe from what I've been hearing.

So, and that move, that 28 years later came out, what, the only couple months ago? They've got, like, a, like, a... They've got a lot of stuff in the can. Yeah, is it, like, a sequel? Yes, okay. It's all connected. They filmed them, like, back to back. So it's already coming out in January.

Alex Garland wrote all three. I think Danny Boyle is coming back to direct the third one, too, which I think is bringing back Killion Murphy, apparently, from his character. from the original. Yeah. But really more than anything else in, like, the franchise building of it. It was just, like, a very fun movie. It was one of my favorite movies I've seen this year.

So I really just think it depends on who's behind it. Like, if you make good, if you make it good, then it's people will still see it, regardless of what, if it's one of these age-old genres that we have in zombie, zombie movies. I think, I think what it is really is, like, maybe zombies are like the, no, that's not true. I think that there are always monster movies, right? They're always going to be monster movies. because these are not characters, but these are ideas that people are familiar with.

Yes. Vampires, zombies, werewolves, the whole nine yards. So they will always be in the canon, but it ebbs and flows what is moving the people and what isn't. And so, yeah, right, I think zombies probably have the highest floor, maybe.

But I think a great vampire movie always gets to people engaged, always gets to people locked in. Does it have a sexy vampire? Gotta have a sexy vampire, man. They'd be talking about LaStat crazy. I mean, it's true. He's getting his own spinoff.

Vampire Lestat. They love Lestat. I'm like, yo, leave Victor Wemignam alone. All right, easy now. Because he's French. Right. Lestat. Yes.

I am putting up big Lestat. That's what they call. Amari Sotomay in France. It's Lestat. Lestat. Lestat. He was putting up Le Witton numbers. All right.

Thanks so much for listening to us, everybody. This has been Mint Edition. We love you all so much. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you guys for rocking with us. Don't forget, coming soon, Ring Reverse recommends. It's going to be back with their September episode.

And this Wednesday, the Midnight Boys are going to be giving you their highly anticipated Demon Slayer pod reacting to that and a bunch of other great stuff that we've been missing out on this week. And don't forget on the House of Our Feed, they're going to be giving you a fall height meter along later in the week with a Stranger Things Season 3 revisit. So don't miss that. Thank you so much to Daniel Chin. Anything to promote or declare on the Ringervor's website or anything else?

I will be writing about Ghost of Yote soon for the site, so check that out. Flex on us that you got the code for us. Anything else? No, I mean, closing thoughts on Marvel Zombies that I didn't say was, like, we might have not have gotten Shang-she too, but at least we got the All-Asian team for a little bit. in the all Asian Avengers? Is that what you say?

Agents of Atlas. They got the agents of Atlas out there. God, damn it. Maybe we'll get Shang T2 eventually, but for now I guess this is what I'll have to take. It's so nuts that that movie did so well

and they haven't even, we haven't even got a whiff of a sequel we get. This is the sequel we get. Not even a whip. The streets loved. I bet you see movies this like crazy mad behind the scene. The streets loved.

He's itching for that the next. Avengers movie though so everybody was like oh shang chie a top five Marvel movie all time that's not true yeah it's not but people really rate it highly it's a great movie cool especially for emceu standards yeah yeah yeah emcee was like hey marvel if i you saw it i guess said cool i we never put this dude in the movie ever again you will never see him again you'll never see him again that was crazy pretty pretty nasty it was nuts thank you so much again everybody we are produced by the great dev and with additional production from our junior ramga pal. Jomi, do you have any parting words for the people?

I want to tell the people, thank you guys for listening as always. Shout out Dev. They doing the best. Make sure y'all following on IG and TikTok and Facebook and Twitter. My job is not safe. Don't ever say that. My job is never saved. All right. And we will see you guys next time. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California, It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt. Keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm families.

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