The Ringer-Verse - Midnight Court: ‘Infinity War’ vs. ‘Endgame,’ Plus the Problem With ‘The Flash’ | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

Midnight Court returns to settle the eternal debate about which MCU film is better, ‘Infinity War’ or ‘Endgame’ (09:17). Then they discuss the latest trailer for ‘The Flash’ and the difficulty of covering a film that features a star as controversial as Ezra Miller (60:44). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Steve Ahlman, and Jomi Adeniran Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Missa Kwanga. And I'm Ryan Hunt. And we co-host Stadio, a football podcast, on the Ring of Podcast Network. If you like soccer or football, make sure you search for Stadio, a football podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome into the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the Ringers' next podcast feed for all things. Vandum, we are. Jomi, the explainer on, you've got questions.

He's got answers. We are. Old Man, Van. He of the receding, soon-to-be resurgent hairline. We are. Coak Baby Chuck, 24-carat closer, aka the brunch haughty. He of the big brain.

We are Steve, the architect, Almond. Him of the sore jaw if he ever attacks. Together, we are known ass. Hey, deo. It's too early for that. Together, just listen to the post credits, guys. It makes sense. Obviously, it's all jokes.

Together we're known as A The Midnight Boys. All right. Follow us on socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomey's job, elevate Jomey. You know, things are happening. We'll make sure that Jomey's seen

and respected in the right light. I'm happy to have Steve back if I'm being real. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Oh, don't do Kerm like that. You, come on, man. I love Kerm.

I don't even think it was like that. I thought it was just, you know, we missed Steve. Well, I love Kerm. Kerm and I are working on another podcast, and Kerm is one of the brightest young producers here at the ring.

Kerm is great. He gives a lot of creative input. Just that's what I like about working with guys like Kerm and Steve and Donnie. Steve is pretty hard to top. But, but it's like stir Kerm and Steve. Oh my God. Because they all don't just produce you,

you know, they bring it as well. But we've got to be real. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

Trimphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderate, to severely active Crohn's disease, and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit Trimfair Radio.com. This episode is brought to by Nass Energy.

Every ounce of dirt, sweat, and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard-bought place. They're all jammed inside every can of Nass energy, high-performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage, and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of Nass energy and get after it. We have certain cues here on the show. and Kerm almost He did great All right

he did fantastic Kerm is a great producer Yes But I feel like it's a bit now about him being late on either the Pue

or what he did to me on the spoiler warning The more I listened to it I felt played It's like Kerm Kerm is using his power He's using his spidey powers to fuck with him

Kerm makes Steve look like Funkflex in terms of the buttons You know what I'm saying Like his trigger fingers a little slow

Yeah, but Kermen is amazing. And, you know, being Kerm, got some stuff coming down the road. Shout out to Kerm. You know, just one time I want to hear the House of All really get deep into a programming reminders. I want to see them play it up because it's very fun. You know what I mean? To get into programming. No House of R this Friday, but on Monday, Ben Lindberg and I will be giving you our thoughts on the latest Star Wars video game, Jedi Survivor.

Then on Tuesday, the House of Our returns, and they're going back to give you their tropes. series on. Magical Blades. Can't wait for that. And on May the 4th, mid-edition digs into Season 2 with Star Wars Visions. And last,

but certainly not least. Next Friday, the boys are returning to give you our instant reactions to Guardians of the Galaxy, volume 3. Guys, think about some magical blades. Throw some out there right now.

Oh, magic soul sword from the X-Men. That's a deep cut. Okay, it was good. It was good. Lightaber. Lightaber. I was going to say the darksaber. Guts.

Guts. Guts. His sword. With the big. Oh my God from Berserk. The guts and sword is crazy. What else? The sole edge from Soul Calibur.

That's a good magical sword. Yeah. What about Excalibur itself? The OG magical sword. Ooh, an OG, yeah. OG magical. The hand comes up out of the lake to grab the sword, which my father swore was sexual.

Well, it's just, I mean, lakes. You know, really quick, y'all know who they just gave a sword in the comments. comic books. It's very controversial. They gave that nigga Miles Morales a sword. He has an electricity sword now. Did you see, by the way, did you see his fit to the Marvel gala? Oh, I have it. Y'all don't even want to look.

Hold on. Let's send it in the chat. They drop it in the chat, man. The guy who plays Miles Morales has a fit. No, no. This is like the X-Men gala. Hellfire gala. Oh, the Hellfire gala. Okay, yeah. Show me to fit. Let me show me by the Odin's fate. The Master's

sword? No, no. He had a half mask on. He had a half mask on. he had like crazy shoes. Hold on. I'm scared. I'm running out of magical swords. I thought that there were more magical swords. No, there's more magical swords. The Ebony Blight. Oh, yeah. What's the only that Frodo and Bilbo got in Lord of the Rings? I don't know about that. Stinger? Stinger. Stinger.

Is what you call it a magical sword? What do you call it from? Anyway, that's enough. It's enough magical sword. Long claw is not a magical sword. Long claw is not a, he's not a magical sword, but doesn't it count as like a sword of some sort of? I think it's a magical adjacent. It's magical adjacent to me.

It's in there. Think about magical swords, magical sword, magical weapons, magical axe. Thor's hammer? Stormbreaker. Stormbreaker. I wonder if that counts. Mileneer.

Mill near. This is fun. They got out. Yeah. We should. Okay. Whatever. All right.

If you could have one magical sword, what would it be? It will be Excalibur. Lightsaber, easy. Let's see, a lightsaber is not... You cut your arm off. Lightaber is really not as magical, though. Yeah, but you kind of need the force

to wield it, kind of. At least you wield it to its full potential. I mean, kind of. I mean, General Grievous didn't have the force. Yeah, but I'm saying, to wield it to its full potential. No, you're right. You're definitely right.

So it's not like, it's not super magical, but I get it. I kind of as a magical sword. Kind of, maybe. And even to make one, even to like find the crystal, you need some type of force. He's got a got up the force.

Sensitivity, right? You're right. Look, hey, Charles, I'm McGrans. I'm just saying. Mine would be Excalibur. You know, you get to rule the whole land. You have to pull it out of the goddamn stump or whatever it is. What are you looking at?

I just saw the boss for a little. Let me see. This shit is racist, bro. Hey, man. Let me see the picture. It's in the Midnight Boys chat as well. I don't see. It's in the Midnight Boys text thread.

Let me see. Dropped it. Oh, no. Marble Van covers. He's upside down, but you're going to... You know, they're doing him so dirty, bro. Bro, they doing him... No, no, hold on for a second.

Before we get into the midnight pool. No, I'm not even fucking around. This pisses me off. Like, they're doing him so dirty, bro. Like, they're trying... No, but I get pissed off for real with stuff like this... They try too hard. They're trying too hard.

And they... And it always comes off corny. It's always corny. The Odin's fade thing, like this looks terrible. Like, this looks really bad. Like, they're doing him dirty. Look at him. He got, he got, he got lugs on.

It looks like he's got the lugs on. He got some lugs on. It's worse because he got them all tied up at the top. Like, dog. What you never do. You never do. You never do that. This is rough.

Iceman and Bishop, I think, take the cake here. And show me then, bro. Show me them. See, okay. Ice man is cold. Like, actually in this, Ice Man looks amazing. That's crazy.

Yeah. And Bishop looks good, too. So, you know, Bishop looks good too. Bishop looks, it's just not, I don't know, where's Chala? I think they got to Chala.

That's a number. That's crazy. Okay, all right, all right. All right. Okay. On today's show, we're going back to Midnight Court with a long-standing disagreement between Charles and I.

We're debating which is the superior movie, which movie is better? Avengers Infinity War or Avengers Endgame? Now, this is something that splits up the fandom. And we're going to have a little fun with it on the other side of this, but I won't

let you guys know something. This is an MCU spoiler warning. These movies came out a long time ago. I was still working at TMZ when they came out. Jomi was in high school. So we're going to spoil it. Hopefully you guys have seen all the MCU movies.

If you haven't, I don't know why you're listening to the podcast. I'm increasingly getting crotchety about these spoiler warnings, so we're spoiling all of it. Charles, give them a couple of movies that we're spoiling.

Infinity War, endgame, Civil War, pretty much if it has a Marvel character in it, we're spoiling. We might even spoil agents of shield, which won't affect a lot of you because nobody watched it. So it won't,

but we're going to be spoiling everything in the MCU. Steve, give me my spoiler one. We're getting ready to talk about the movies. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. This week on Midnight Court, the prosecution Van Lathen claims that the defendant,

Coke baby Chuck, is back on, quote, The Hard Stuff, after stating that Infinity War is the Superior Film to endgame. Honorable Judge Steve Allman presiding. This is the case of Endgame versus Infinity War. The prosecution minister Lathen will begin with opening remarks, followed by Mr. Holmes.

Thank you very much, Steve. Thank you. Steam judge, Steve Alman. Thank you to our bailiff, Jummy. And also a nod to opposing counsel. I thought about this a lot. I think I'll start off with the definition of better. better means of a more excellent or effective type of quality.

That's the definition. More excellent, more effective. Quality. To me, excellent, effective, and quality are the very building blocks of Avengers Endgame. The film is more ambitious. It's more memorable and more significant in any. every way than its predecessor.

And it's that way because the story is less about a fight and more about a family. In-game asked audiences worldwide to bathe themselves in the weight of a world that had lost all of its hope and half of its people to watch our heroes rudderless and impotent, unable to navigate the despair that our earth has become. then before you can say I love you 3,000, that hope is restored. It's full.

It's a journey. It's an entire movie. We believe again at the end of Avengers Endgame. The Avengers believe again at the end of Avengers end game. The film becomes a glorious ride that takes you from the strikingly familiar all of the Marvel universe. to the sensationally new, things you had never seen before on screen. A whole entire experience, then its goal and execution, might be the single most significant achievement in the history of film.

While its predecessor, no doubt, succeeded in being a successfully, in a sensationally fun, multi-front war movie that plays well on T&T in the afternoons, in game, in its stakes and execution simply eclipses. is it no matter how much fun you had with the chaos and rambunctiousness of its predecessor. In-game, for what it did, for its ambition, for its complete story, for its performances, for its stakes is simply better. Just like a Wagyu steak cooked at well-done temperatures is better, excuse me, it cooked at medium well temperatures is better

than a steak you get from Ralph's cook well done, no matter how fun it is to eat, endgame is a finer piece of cinematic cuisine. I turn it over to opposing counsel. All right. First and foremost, thank you to the honorable Judge Allman, show me the bail of the dinner on. my esteem Van Lathen Jr., my brother in arms, and all of you in his court today.

Now on this auspicious Wednesday morning, I'd like to take y'all on a journey. Not one rooted in nostalgia, box office receipts, quote, ambition, and the like. But one rooted in a simple but ineffable truth. Avengers Infinity War is a superior film to end game. Now let's unpack that statement. Superior Film. That's right. I'm here today to talk to the letterbox Larry's and the cinema score Sandy's about movies.

Infinity War is a better film because it operates as a film. Not a glorified clip show like the Seinfeld series finale. Can I get an amen, people? Today, I will argue three things that speak to the success of Avengers Infinity War. First, Infinity War has a more compelling and satisfying story. I'm talking all killer, no, filler. Secondly, the 2018 movie is home to far more iconic performances than its lesser brethren. And last, but certainly not least, Infinity War thematically illuminates more about the foibles of our heroes,

thus creating a masterpiece that says just as much about ourselves as it does about them. Today, I will ask everyone in this courtroom to dig deeper and fight the allure of a plane landing. And y'all are asking me, now, now, what do you mean about that, Mr. Holmes? See, we're raised in this world to focus so much on a safe descent. We're so happy we made it that our feet are firmly planted on the ground, that we forget the risks inherent. trying to reach for the sky in the first place. Infinity War represents the dangers of taking flight.

A talking raccoon in the same room as a Norse god? Can a purple alien have the gravitizing necessary to command an entire movie? Can over a decade of story lead to something not only transformative, but a movie that's not afraid to take the real wist people? With your valuable time today, I hope to answer all. these questions and more. Thank you. All right. Prosecution and defense will now have opportunities to present evidence and witness testimony. Mr. Lathen, you have the floor after which there will be a total of five minutes for you and Mr. Holmes to have rebuttals. And then following, Mr. Holmes will

have his witness and testimony section and then an added addition for rebuttals as well. Thank you, Judge. Compelling opening statement from counsel. The first thing I would like to point to are the performances in the movie. Now, Infinity War, the predecessor to Endgame, the table setter for Endgame, the little brother to Endgame, has one job. That one job is to get you to something that is better. And how does it do that? by throwing our characters right into the action right away. If we're talking about the performances, I ask the people listening to Jury,

is there a more complete performance from Tony Stark, Iron Man, an end game, or an Infinity War? Is it more compelling to watch a broken, emaciated Tony Stark? navigate his way back to hero status and lose his life, lose his family, lose who he is in endgame, or is it more compelling to watch him in Infinity War, in which movie are the stakes higher? And when you talk about dramatic performances, statements, you're talking about stakes.

If we're talking about Thor, which film is more compelling? Is it more compelling to watch Thor on a bloodlust to kill Thanos because of what he did to his people, which is very compelling stuff? Or is it more compelling, more different, more challenging

to watch that character portrayed in a way that we had never seen, him on film, not an ounce of confidence, an extra 15 pounds around his belly, dealing with anxiety, dealing with failure, dealing with everything that happened to him and has happened to him over the course of 20 years in the MCU, or 20 movies in the MCU. Is it more compelling to watch Black Widow, blonde-haired, on the run, fighting, all of that, Or is it more compelling to watch her lay her life down, to watch her cry into her peanut butter sandwich?

When we're talking about the performances, I say to you that there is no comparison between Infinity War and Endgame. The most compelling performance that you get in Infinity War is from a dude with a nut sack chin. In Endgame, you have these actors doing some of the final work of their careers, some of the most impactful and moving cinematic stories and cinematic stories and cinematic performances in the history of comic book movies or any movie.

Is it more moving to see Tony Stark say goodbye to a character at the end of the movie that you know because of his contract is coming back? or is it more moving to watch Tony Stark say goodbye to his father and his wife, everything that Infinity War does in game does it better. That is a fat. I know who agrees with me, the critics. I submit to you some evidence here. Charles are surly critic here.

Fancy's himself a critical mind. He's pushed us in the past to, View. Objection, Your Honor. Objection. Sustained. You have pushed. You have pushed this court to its limits.

Here's the thing. Am I not during this? Lawyer Charles, not Coke Baby Charles. Yes. Struct this from the record. Striking. What is being stricken from the record? You have multiple personas, Mr. Holmes.

I am lawyer Charles right now. What? What is? I am not a Coke baby Chuck. there's no reason to bring up my critical record. What is relevant? What is being stricken from the record here? Code Baby Chuck fancies himself a critic and has told us to look at these movies with a more critical eye.

Not about the popcorn fun that you have inside of these films. Not about what they're able to do with CGI, which he's routinely criticized. Coach Baby Chuck is not on the stand right now. Please get back to your point, Mr. White. And so what I would say is there are ratings for this movie that Charles's brethren have rendered. Rotten Tomato score. Infinity War, 85% in-game, 94%. You might throw that away.

Metacritic score. Infinity War, 68. In-game, 78. Might you say, well, what did the people going to the box office say? or they spoke with their wildness is what they did. Infinity War. Two billion dollars worldwide. In game, we know we're talking about a movie that's in a perpetual fight for being the most watched film at the box office ever.

Ever. We're talking about a critical and a cultural moment that is unparalleled and unrivaled. And I would say to anyone that calls what happens in the middle of this film filler, that you're not giving agency and space to the emotional journey of the human characters that you have come to love over the course of the MCU. Their story was deserving and being told. They deserve to have their moment. They deserve to understand and live and breathe and come to turn.

with what happened during the snap. They deserved to be able to emote on screen before we get to what we got to at the end, which was the best you, me, Charles, Steve,

Jomey, everybody listening has ever felt in the movie theater. Is it time for the presenting of evidence or does the defense have a redirect? Nope. I'll save for the end. I'm saving it for the end. Okay. I would like to present evidence here.

We talked about the movie in his dramatic stakes and what it was able to do. We talked about the performances. We talked about the stakes of the movie. Death always is real stakes. Nobody really died in Infinity War. They all came back.

Thor's Hammer. Give it to me, Steve. Yeah. Steve, on your left, give it to me. They're still going. They're still going. Steve, cut them off because they're too excited.

They've never seen anything like this before. Steve, Avengers' Symbol, please. You can wrap now. Is that it? Can I talk now? Can I redirect? Yeah, redirect. All right.

So let's start here. Mr. Lathen, could you tell me who you believe are the top five villains in all of MCU history? Thanos. Top five villains in all of MCU history. Thanos, Loki, for sure. killmonger after that it's kind of a wash I'll be honest with you

but maybe Ronan he was a good villain in Gardens of the Galaxy and I don't know if you look at I guess I would say Baron Zemo was great so then can you please tell the jury why you quote

called Thanos let me see here just a nut sack with a chin, if he is, to what you're saying, almost the greatest, if not the greatest villain in the entire MCU. I'll tell you why I called him that. I called him that because no matter how good a villain is,

no matter how amazing a villain is, the villain's story pales in comparison to the journey that we've been on. With Cap, with Iron Man, with Black Widow, doesn't matter what you try to do in one movie. Thanos is a co-star. He's a co-star. And the moments that just were reflected in the clips that I played

were moments that no villain, including Thanos, feelings that no villain, including Thanos, could ever recreate in the hearts of people because we didn't grow old with that motherfucker. We didn't go through nothing with that motherfucker. We didn't watch him lose his parents. We didn't watch none of that. he is a co-star.

He's second fiddle. And if you base a whole movie around him, it's going to be less compelling than it is if it's about your heroes. That's fair. Then let me ask you this. Follow up. You're saying he's a co-star. He can never be as interesting as everybody else on screen.

Can you please tell me who do you think is the most iconic part of Star Wars? The most iconic part of Star Wars, Luke Skywalker. Not Darth Vader. No. All right, Steve, can you just play a clip? We could put this in in post of, I believe, Van saying that Darth Vader was the most iconic villain in Star Wars during our Star Wars. Thank you. Yeah.

Anyway. Okay, can I, that's two different questions. You said, you, you asked me what's the most, who's the most iconic character in Star Wars? That's the Skywalker. The most iconic villain is certainly, it's certainly for me. Is a villain not a character, Mr. Lathen, yes or no? You just changed the doc. He's a villain, not the character.

I didn't say who was the most iconic hero or pro-contagonist. I said the most iconic character. I know. That's fine. That's right. Moving on. Moving on. Okay.

Okay. Moving on. Now, you said, we had never seen Thor like this before, so broken. Have you watched Infinity War recently? Are you saying that Thor was not broken? That Chris Hemsworth's performance? playing Fortnite was more powerful

than what he did in Infinity War. Okay. Yes, and I'll tell you why. So Thor was definitely broken in Infinity War. He was on a hero's journey. Watching him have to go back to Asgard

on the day his mother died, watching him shirk his duty as a fat, overweight, bum playing video games and not the hero that we've all known him known him to be watching him unable

to meet the task or the demands from the Avengers when he's standing up there trying to talk to them all of that stuff was more compelling to me than watching him trying to get revenge from Asgard

not taking anything away from Thor's performance in Infinity War who he was in Infinity War. I'm saying in game, in my opinion, reinvented the character and showed you what everything that had, how everything had taken the toll on him. All right. So we will agree to disagree. My last question for you,

Mr. Lathen is very, very simple. There are two. My first is, how would you say Spider-Man No Way Home and Dr. Strange's multiverse of madness have aged? Pretty good. I mean, I don't like Spider-Man. Really? I don't like Spider-Man. Oh, you mean, mean multiverse of madness. Spider-Man is no way home. Okay, you're talking about the...

Not well. Both. Not well. Yeah. Now, were there cheers for both films, let's say when John Crosinski was revealed as a member of the Illamani or we saw the three Spider-Man for the first time? Sure.

Yes, there were cheers. So do cheers have any bearing on the long-term quality of a movie? I will take a yes or no answer. It's not a yes or no answer. There's difference between cheers and screams and tears. I do not ask you to differentiate. I asked about cheers. That is what we are arguing.

Excuse me. I think that I should be able to answer in kind. No moment from either one of those movies comes close to any, to, you'd be doing a disservice to the people listening to this podcast right now. If you compared anything that happened to No Way Home or multiverse of madness to any, anything that happened in endgame. That's a reach, counsel. Was it not a reach playing three chair videos in a row, acting like you were doing something?

Was that a reach? Yes or no. Please answer. Your honor? You're like, Your Honor, is this kidding? You don't need to answer this one, Mr. Lathen. No, it wasn't a reach. I was reminding the audience listening to this podcast how they felt and how they have never felt

before or after and the feeling that they are trying to achieve and that the movie that gave them that feeling, not once, not three times, multiple different times. If I could have played people crying when Tony died, I would have played that too, was in game.

But yeah. All right, so I get it. I will rest. I now see that you are appealing to people's cheap sense of nostalgia. That is fine, Mr. Lee. Your Honor, you're not going to. Did you, do you object? I think it's, I think, I'm being badgered by the fence.

Mr. Holmes, you can, you can keep it civil, please. Every outfit starts with a choice. What am I wearing underneath? Something comfortable? And let's be honest. Something that keeps everything looking smooth. That's where Vanity Fair lingerie comes in. Their new smoothing wireless bra has four-way stretch fabric for all over smoothing,

soft lightly lined cups for a natural shape, and no wire comfort that lasts all day. All over smooth, all day comfort, vanity fair lingerie. Find yours at Target today. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch.

Handual prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Cole has are returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait

as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehauser Kelly Riley, Annette Benning, and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. All right. You know, people who the jury.

It is obvious. You know, you know, that I disagree with Mr. Lathen. One of the smartest, if unremarkerous, Infinity War takes, is that it's not really an Avengers movie in name. Infinity War is a Thanos movie, and it's a better and more propulsive film for it. By centering the villain that's so evil, so competent, and so morally complex,

it allows our fellow heroes to rise to the dramatic occasion in a way that we had not seen in any other MCU film to date or since. And here's the thing. I'd like to throw to Exhibit 1 to demonstrate what I'm talking about. See, all of these quotes are going to reinforce the emotional stakes of every intimate moment in Slugfest you're about to see. Can we go to my colleague, Thanos? I know what it's like to lose. Feel so desperately that you're right.

Yet to fail, nonetheless. Perfectly balanced as all things should be. Too much to one side. I finally rest. watch the sunrise on a grateful universe. When you think of the most thrilling moments of Infinity War, Thor arriving on Wakanda, the generational ass-whipping Thanos gives to Hulk and Vision,

watching all of our heroes crumble into dust, it is because the MCU endeavor to do what they had never done before. Give us a villain at the center of the movie that we are not only afraid of, but we understand him. We get him. He is worthy of someone like Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor Odinson. Everything hits that much harder because this isn't a simple MCU movie about good versus evil.

I would argue that the best films are about ideals. Ideals versus ideals. Thanos represents the beauty of order versus the Avengers who fight for the unbridled chaos of freedom. And that's something that is utterly lost in Endgame, a movie that I quite like, I enjoy. I was one of those people cheering in that theater.

But as time has gone on, let's be honest, Infinity War has aged like a fine wine. while with each progressive year, the time hijinks shenanigans in endgame make less and less sense. But now, let's talk about the performances because I disagree. You've already heard

my man, Josh Brolin, killing that role, the gravitas, the depth of emotion he brings to a fully CGI character. But I want to get a little bit more human to you. I'd like to throw to exhibit number two and three. These clips need no introduction, but they illustrate the power of true iconic performances from one Chris Hemsworth

and another man named Tom Holland. Can we please play that, Steve? You know, I'm 1,500 years old. I've killed twice as many enemies as that, and every one of them would have rather killed me, but none succeeded. I'm only alive because fate wants me alive. Phanos is just the latest and long line of bastards

and who will be the latest to fill my vengeance fate, wills it so. Mm-hmm. And what if you're wrong? Well, if I'm wrong, then... I don't feel so good. You're all right. I don't know what's happening.

I don't know what's happening. I don't want to go. I don't want to go, sir, please. Please, I don't want to go. I don't want to go. Look at these bruised and broken heroes blinded by their ego. years of infighting and loss

have deluded them into thinking there is no further they can fall. The mark of a true, great sequel, is what it illuminates about the other films. When you watch Civil War now, you realize where they are headed. Does half the universe get snapped away

if Tony and Kat can come together? everything that they've lost is contained in this movie. That is the true risk of Infinity War. It shows us our heroes at their most human, at their most broken. That's what I want for my movies. Okay? I want heroes that fail because they cannot see outside of themselves.

Because that is true human emotion. That gives them something to rise for. That's Empire Strikes Back. Not the Return of the Jedi? Come on, people. I'm talking about the look of utter defeat in Tony's eyes as a fearful Peter drifts away as dust. The utter shell of a man Thor turned into

after seeing the death of his people, the death of his brother. That's an iconic performance. Not what comes an end game. Pound for pound, there is not another movie in the MCU that has more quarre quotables that has more tear-jurker moments, Wanda losing vision, Thanos choosing his mission over his daughter. Each of these moments fundamentally make you think differently about the relationships

that we have invested in for over a decade. And that is far more powerful than Avengers Assemble or a couple heroes coming out of a portal. That's cool. Those are Easterheads. Those are not the emotions that make us care about these characters for years and years upon end. Because I can tell y'all, it's very, very, very, very cool to see Cap, yell Avengers is humble. I still get a tear in my eye every single time. I see Tom Holland slip away.

But you know what? Before I get to what makes the theme so powerful, I want to address something that, Mr. Lathen said about me in my other role when I'm not being a lawyer as the credit, Cocoa Baby Chuck, as he liked to say. I'm not going to shy away from that.

So I brought in an expert testimony, someone who, quite literally, I could never hope to introduce because she's unintroducible. That's how much her names rings out. She is someone who loves this stuff more than even I, someone who can take not just a critical eye,

but the eye of a true fan. Because I can't give you the whole spectrum, but my girl, Mallory Rubin, can we play the tape. It's a privilege to be with you today to speak on behalf of Avengers Infinity War, the bedrock more so than any golden gauntlet, on which the Infinity saga truly rested. Travel back in time with me to a moment

when Captain America's majestic beard, tragically disposed of an endgame, graced your screen. And best of all, travel back without having to actually understand any of end game's time travel logic. Back before you had to explain to your friends, why Nebula had more screen time than half your faves or why we had to start saying blip instead of snap. A simpler time. When we could sit with our feelings, our hearts turning to dust alongside so many

of our heroes. And lest you invoke the stakes debate, may I ask you to ponder whether death is the only stake in life? And whether if they're not going to keep the future of the MCU dead as an argument that you can't shake, that's not actually a mark against end game. What's more? Like Peter, I don't want to go to a place where we've forgotten what true brilliance is. The movie made making alchemy of turning what could have been ensemble soup into the wonderfully surprising Infinity War character groupings that so wowed us, melding heart and humor into a toolless, fresh and fierce as Stormbreaker itself. We can't forget the crackling thrill of two supersized egos like Tony Stark and Dr. Strange budding balloon animal heads. Protecting a reality,

douchebag. We must cherish the magnetic delight of Thor and the Guardians' cosmically coupling. Tall guy, not that good looking, needed saving. We wept as we watched Thor tell Rocket. Well, if I'm wrong, what more could I lose? But perhaps as notable, every day that we've wept since, chasing the dragon of that form of a big, bad high, Thanos's Infinity War domination was so unrelenting that every subsequent MCU whisper, let alone actual movie or show, has been judged against its might. Where did that bring us? Thanos would say back to me, which means, if we're being frank, back to a moment where Endgame acknowledged Infinity War's supremacy. Ultimately, Infinity War and End Game are both top five MCU films. This is truthfully an argument of degree.

But victory often waits in those degrees, and the hardest choices require the strongest wills. Dread it, run from it. Infinity War wins all the same. Ooh. Hey, man. She was spitting, man. Spitting. Thank you so much to my expert testimony from one Mallory Rubin.

That was crazy, man. Is it my turn? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I have 15 minutes. I'm not done yet. Go for it. I'm not done. All right. Here's the thing.

We're going to talk about the themes. Endgame. End game. Is a movie about the MCU because it has to be. By virtue of being the last of an era, it buckles under the weight of having to define and reckon with it.

And I don't call that a movie. That's a theme park ride. Hence why Van was so beside himself pulling clips off YouTube of people cheering. Is that, really the mark of a great movie? See, I'm not even arguing at this point, Infinity War versus Endgame. Infinity War is one of the greatest superhero movies of all time, okay? And I don't

need cheers to describe that. It's a complex tapestry. Order versus chaos, freedom versus tyranny, the all-consuming nature of grief, and the eternal emper of hope. What I love so much about is that it teaches you so much about these heroes that never lose. They're not supposed to lose. They're bigger than life. They're gods. But Infinity War shows, well, what if they're not? What if they have all of the same weaknesses, all of the same vices that we do? That is what I love about Infinity War. It is more than just this action spectacular where we're going back in time to see a bunch of movies that I'd already seen before, it is pushing me to my limit.

I'm scared for these heroes. I feel for them. I cry for them. And that is what makes Infinity War, the far superior film to Endgame. Hmm. I see the floor.

Okay. Weirdly uncompelling stuff from your witness. Very well-oriented. But let's take a look into what your witness said. Mallory Rubin, who is obviously very smart and gifted on these topics, said that a lot of things in Infinity War, in-game, should I say, don't make any sense.

And I think that there are some people who think that. Which movie has had the purpose of it litigated more? which questions have been asked about the drive of the movie more? Does it make sense to want to snap half of the universe and to exist away from existence when you can just make more stuff? Have we not endlessly talked about whether or not Thanos's entire goal, the entire motivation that he has in Infinity Gold War, makes any sense whatsoever.

Does he not have the same motivation in any game? Does he not have the same motivation in any game? Does it not make sense? Does it not make sense for Captain America and Black Widow and fucking Falcon to defeat two outriders who have just beaten vision and the scarlet witch,

does that make any sense to watch Black Widow do karate against an alien being? Do you want to bring up Captain America time traveling? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Does it make any sense at all? that trillions of lives are in danger and they wait until the end of the movie to destroy Visions Mindstone. Is this cinema since?

If we start talking about, no, I am directly responding. There's been no question. There's been nothing. Just a rant. Hold on. I'm directly, I'm directly responding to your witness. is testimony. Your witness is testimony that looked at endgame

and questioned the validity and the realism of some of the more fantastical elements of the story. If we're going to draw the line at time travel, like when we're talking about people who fly around and shoot stuff out of their eyes, I think we're missing the point a little bit.

I think I just like my time travel to make coherent sense. Can I, that's all I'm saying. Charles, please. I mean, hold on. Order, please. Hold on. Hold on.

Hold on. Point of order. Just real quick. We had Jomey jumping in to, we had the bailiff of the court. Jump in during Mallory's thing. And now we have my, I didn't interrupt him once. We had, now we have him interrupting me. And you guys, what, what, what am I?

Is this a banana republic? It's a kangaroo court? It's a kangaroo court. Like, what's like, like, like, like what's going on here, Steve? That should be like three or four different. I have called Charles to order several times. You're going to be held in contempt, please.

When are you going to admonition? Okay. So, and I'm saying, what the fuck is going on? I can't talk. He's getting in my way. So I'm responding to court. I'm responding to Mallory. Watching, watching her say, last thing I'll say about her that I move on to what counsel

that said, watching someone say that death. isn't the only stake in a comic book movie. It's not the only stake, but it's the most important one. And I'll tell you why. What we're discussing right now, and what we always talk about right now, was how these movies sometimes feel unimportant because the decisions that are made in them never stick,

that we know that there'll be a reprieve, that we know that there'll be another issue, another time, a retcon, something like that. If we're talking about a different place, people begging for Moth Gideon to be dead because they want death to mean something in Star Wars. One thing that in game did was it litigated death.

it talked about it in a way. So many of these characters are gone. Howard Stark, gone. Natasha, gone. Tony Stark, gone. So many of these people were people that we're not going to see again. Charles, the beloved villain that you've talked about so much,

his story ends twice. an end game. It ends twice because it's more meaningful to see the end of that character and what it means for our heroes than it is to see a movie where we know

we're going to see all of them again and we're going to see him again. And even Gamora the most significant actual death in Infinity War she was recycled for the more superior movie because it wasn't real. And so this is what I'd say.

When I listen to you talk about the performances and the emotional stakes and all of that stuff, Charles, you're describing end game. You're describing a movie where every single character had to come to terms with their mortality. They had to come to terms with how their world has changed. They had to come to terms with their loss. You can't talk about the fact that they're dealing with loss in Infinity War. They didn't lose until the end of the movie. They're dealing with loss.

So that makes it less powerful. And end game. Endgame is the movie about their loss. Infinity War is the movie about their fight. And that's all the movie is. It's a big, amazing fight with some comedy. But when I'm talking about the human movie, When I'm talking about the movie with the superior performances, the superior stakes, the superior

high moments, the superior low moments, I could make an argument that says that the Thanos that appears in endgame in a lot of ways is a pure version of the character, a more evil version of the character than the one that appears in Infinity War. So look, I understand that Mallory, who also talked about Cap's beard, I understand all the things that made you guys love the movie. It moves real fast and you know what it doesn't ask you for? Doesn't ask you for a lot. It doesn't ask you to litigate your humanity.

Doesn't ask you to look at your heroes as people. Doesn't ask you for a lot. I thought I said a person got five minutes. Charles. You got 12 minutes. You kept interrupting me. In game, in game asks you for all of that.

And then it brings you back to the top. That's it. Come on. I'm done. All right. The fucking lies that we're told for that 15 minute rant. Mr. Holmes. We have closing arguments now.

Van will have five minutes to make his final case to the jury. And then Charles will close us out. All right. Okay. Um, look, you guys, quality is about execution.

Quality is about, mistakes, quality is about lasting legacy. It's not about the easiest film to watch. It's not about the most fun film to watch. The Godfather, not an easy movie to watch. Not at all. The Revenant, not an easy movie to watch. Not at all. Moonlight, not an easy movie to watch, but it's compelling because of the human emotion, what it makes you ask for, of what you have to give to it and then what it gives to you be that a lesson be that a crescendo

be that a triumphant moment that's what end game does for you Infinity Avengers Affinity War is a hero movie Avengers Endgame is a human movie it's not just a better movie with deeper meaning superior performances

it's a defining movie going experience of its generation and no film is close it's the culmination of the single greatest film making experiment of all time the MCU Every single high that is experienced in Infinity War easily eclipsing In Game, while Ingame has something that Infinity War does it,

a devastating sense of loss and vulnerability. In Game doesn't start with a high-octane interstellar fight. It starts with a man losing his family. From that moment on, the stakes of the movie are set. The film is about people, people that don't start off matches. you might with an alien God. People that do what people on this earth do every day. We lose. We lose over and over and over again in big ways and small ways. We have lost. We examine that loss by seeing where those characters are, what they are in it, when it is a part of them,

when it is deep in them, when they haven't seen the people that they've loved for five years, when they don't know how they're going to overcome. By the time those heroes win, by the time we win with them. The culmination of that is an experience that you, I, and everybody on this call, everybody listening to this knows they've never had before. You've never felt it before and you might never feel it again.

Done, spent, exhausted, depleted, taking every inch of who you are to get to the end. The moment they conquer, you feel like you've won to and the only thing that's left after that is what now? Infinity War, as great as it was, preamble. Fun, well-executed movie that has no responsibility other than to set up something bigger. It's a fain.

It's a fake. It's a, uh, to set up a gut punch to the middle of your chest that is the single greatest accomplishment in terms of filmmaking that we've seen in comic book movies. I'll leave you with this from Collider. Leaving Infinity War, I couldn't get past. It was half the story. I've rewatched the movie four or five times, and it's very entertaining.

It's a tough hurdle. Your antagonist, Thanos, is basically your protagonist because he moves the action forward. And while it's fun to mix and match superheroes, the cliffhanger ending ultimately makes the journey unfulfilling. And that way, end game is the payoff

we've been waiting for while creating stakes of his own. Even if you can't see the broad outline of the movie before you step into the theaters, the directors join Anthony Russo, have shown themselves to be masters of a propulsive narrative. Even though in-game clocks in

as the longest Marvel movie to date, it never feels long. It never feels long because it feels right, because it feels real, and because it feels, period. They've never done that well before, and they won again. I rest.

Very compelling, very compelling, Mr. Lath. Can I go now, honorable Judge Alman? Yes. Thank you. Now, I'm a simple man, ladies and gentlemen. I put my jammies on one leg at a time, just like the rest of y'all. But from where I come from, we don't judge heroes by their victories. No, no, no, no, no.

We judge heroes by who they are in the midst of defeat. See, we only know the essence of a man when he thinks he's lost everything. And then he loses even more. Now, I'm going to recap what we've learned today. How the story of Infinity War is tight, focused, and honed. It doesn't get lost in nonsensical time travel or dated jokes about Fortnite. Instead, it tells an intimate story of a mad titan and the lengths he'll go to defeat a group of heroes who have lost their love and their way.

When we think of the most iconic performances in MCU history, Robert Downey Jr., Chris Hemsworth, Josh Brolin, Dom Holland, pound for pound, there are far more an Infinity War than an endgame. The story thematically is a bounty of riches. Mr. Lathen will have you believe that the mark of a true, great story can only be when the stakes are about death. You will tell y'all that Infinity War is just a preamble.

Nothing happens until the last five minutes. What I would ask is that what happens in the first five minutes of Infinity War? You see Thor lose his brother and his entire race and be a shell of himself for the rest of the movie. What do we see after that? We see Tony and Pepper, and Tony having to come to grips with the man that he wants to be. The man who does not have millions of Iron Man suits in his closet, the one that wants to be a doting husband and father.

We see Peter with a new suit, desperate, not only to impress his mentor, but to save a galaxy. See, I want to appeal to your core. I want to appeal to the primal essence of why we tell stories. We connect with stories because it rouses something inside of us. See, maybe we can't be that plucky kid with spider powers. There's very few among us who can pull off a beard as well as Chris Evans. Shout out to Mallory Rubin. That does not matter.

When we pull back the curtain and look at Infinity War, you're left with a movie that shows more than what we struggle against. We're stronger together. No civil wars or Ragnarox can ever change that fact. And no matter what a Collider review says, the truth of the matter is that Infinity War is about the human condition. It shows and it proves that we can all lose. That does not strike out our last ember of hope.

Thor says in this movie, what more could I lose? What more could I lose? And that really is the story of us because we always lose, but we know we're going to stand back up. We're going to fight, and you don't get endgame

unless you have Infinity War. Thank you so much. I shall now direct our bailiff, Jomey to instruct the jury. And now the case is in your hands. head to the ring of social fees to cast your vote and decides who wins the case of endgame versus infinity war

might have been the best midnight quarter ever I'm not gonna lie here it's really good nerd news minute all right a lot of flash talk flash flash flash all on your ass the trailer for Flash dropped.

Dude. This is what happens. This is what happened. You're flashing it up. The trailer for Flash dropped. The movie comes out in, what is it, June? June we get flashed,

so it's mere weeks away. First, let's talk about the trailer. And then after we talk about the trailer, let's talk about some of the early reactions to the film that are coming out from CinemaCon. Charles, this is the trailer? I'll pass it.

I'm being positive today. What? Why are you being good? No. No. I don't, I don't accept this. Do your job. I'm tired. I'm exhausted of the flash because let's say this is a great movie. They have been on this weird tour after all of the atrocious things that Ezra Miller was accused of of trying to convince us that this is the next citizen cane. and I'm just like,

can we just let the movie speak for itself at this point? Like every single month, it's a new thing. It's like, yo, Tom Cruise thinks this shit is the shit's bananas. It's the best thing since top gun,

Matt, like, it's just at a certain point, like, it gets weird. And when I was watching the trailer, I'm not seeing it. And that's not me saying that the movie will be bad. It's just like,

I'm something about the hype for this movie and the trailers that we've released. there's a disconnect from me. I'm just like, this just kind of looks like another DC movie, but with more shit, like this,

and this is not, I'm not introducing anything. Like, this is there no way home. A lot of people are saying that. And I'm just like, all right, cool.

Like, that is, like, I'm sure there will be a lot of cameos. I'm sure there will be a lot of great moments. I'm sure that there will be many parts of this movie

that I like, but I just cannot shake the corporate, like, machinations behind the scenes of trying to rehabilitate this movie and convince me that I'm Watson, Casablanca. So I, I, so we should talk about real quick, Ezra Miller's issues.

June 28th, 2011, disorderly conduct while he was filming the person being a wallflower. April 6th, 2020, appeared to strangle a woman in the video and throw her to a ground, took place at a part, at a bar in Iceland. March 28, 2022, arrested in Hawaii following what police say was a physical altercation with patrons after having hurled obscenities at customers at a karaoke bar, which charged with harassment. Three weeks later, after 19th, 2022, taking the custody for second-degree assault by police authorities in Hawaii. They were arrested, excuse me, they were arrested for throwing a chair, which hit a 26-year-old woman and left a half-inch cut on her forehead.

Then there is a whole other ridiculous and really troubling set of circumstances issued Order of Protection against Miller on behalf of an 18-year-old activist named Takata Iron Eyes. The Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Court issued this. Her parents say that Miller used violence, intimidation, and threat of violence, fear, paranoia, delusions, and drugs to hold sway over their children. This relationship between Miller and Iron Eyes began when he was 23 and apparently Iron Eyes was 12. The set of the crimes of Grindlewold. She dropped out of school in 2021 when her parents believed that she did this in order to follow Miller around. cues of grooming, manipulating, and holding in mental hostage over this young woman. There are numerous allegations of abuse.

His former music collaborator, Oliver Ignatius said that he had witnessed, abuse her, because she wore some makeup. And then you have more harassment allegations that came out June 16, 2022. Then you have incidents on a farm in Vermont, mid-April, 2022. All of this stuff is coming out in terms of what Ezra Miller has gone through. On the weekend of August 6, 2022, Vermont State Police approached Miller's residence and repeatedly attempted to serve the mother an emergency care order that demanded the children's removal from her care. Miller had a woman

or children staying with in some way taken over somebody's mind and is holding them hostage. Police and social workers were unable to locate the children or their mother. Miller told police that the woman and children didn't live there and have it for the past two months. But case workers on the case

disputed that. Then there was August 7th, 2022. He was charged with felony burglary. I'm just letting people know. No, this is a lot of shit. I'm just saying we're going to be here all day because it keeps going. Yeah, like on August 7th, 2022, he's charged with felony burglary in Stanford, Vermont, stemming from what the police indicated was the death of bottles of alcohol from a private home.

According to the report, Miller was identified by police via video surveillance footage due to be arranged September 26th. The arrangement was pushed back, Blas Blase Blaseelow. Earlier this year, the trespassing plea was approved by the court. They have discussed this stating that they went through a time of intense crisis and had begun treatment for complex mental health issues. Miller apparently has claimed to be Jesus, the devil, and the next Messiah.

They believed that their relationship with iron eyes would bring the apocalypse. They also believed that Freemasons were sending demons to kill them. That was from a September 22 article in Venice. 80 fear. Okay. So let's address this because we're going to cover Flash here on this podcast. And what Charles just said, well, it may seem like a bummer to a lot of you guys. That's a reality. And I appreciate Charles's perspective on that. I appreciate Charles saying that when I watched this

trailer, I couldn't really pay attention to Michael Keaton, couldn't pay attention to a lot of things that were going on. What I paid attention to was this years-long controversy that has seemingly captured this movie and is now holding it hostage in terms of what it's going to be quality-wise and the star of the film. I want to hear from the Mitt Boys on this because we don't really delve into these issues

too deeply on the podcast. Try to keep it light, try to make sure that you guys have a fun time with stuff. But that list of things that I just read off, I don't think people understand how much Ezra Miller has been involved in, and how some people consider Ezra Miller to be a very specific danger, danger to people.

So, very troubling stuff. Very troubling stuff. So, Mitt Boys, your thoughts on the trailer and your thoughts on what Charles just said. I think it kind of comes hand in hand, because the amount of excitement that we can muster for something like this is greatly overshadowed by the litany of things that you just mentioned, Van. it's very difficult to do so. We're on the verge of seeing this movie that is being hailed as probably one of the best superhero movies

of all time, and we've heard that every other time that a superhero film has come out. And it's, regardless of the film's quality, it's tough to know what consequence all of these things are brought about because we hear so many things about so many other figures in our lives, and they are either shown the door, and those projects are shelved, and those projects are heavily changed or ratified or amended because of those things,

and this seemingly is coming out to what seems to be a relatively wide margin of success. praise and acclaim. And it is very hard to get excited about that, just for that alone. For what I see in the trailer and just as a movie itself, I kind of do agree with Charles where we are saying that this is like one of the best that's ever done it and it's going to like blow us all out of the water. I'm maybe thinking that like I hope, I hope at least that maybe this trailer is lying to us in a way that like it's showing, it's not showing a lot of something that is going to

actually blow our minds? Because from what I'm seeing, I'm like, okay, this seems exciting. This seems interesting, certainly. But I, nothing to make me think that, like, wow, this is going to be a game changer. So, I don't know. It's a lot, a lot, lot to come with that. Jemey, what do you think? I mean, I remember there was a point, like, on Twitter every three, four days where we just get an Ezra Miller, humanity fair tweet. And he was like, they're at it again. and like, oh my goodness, you know, like a legitimate terror in the in the streets. And I think that's why the gas on this movie has been so incredulous and so huge is because, I mean, you mix their behavior with the DC studios, like having a big problem in terms of trying to get that universe forward. and they've stumbled upon something that has worked,

despite everything that's going on, despite all of it, they found something that has worked, and they're just like blowing it up to high heaven. We've literally talked about this for, I want to say like almost nine months now, to where every single time you ask, you see somebody in the know about the movie,

they'll tell you the same thing. It is great. It's fantastic. It's going to blow your mind. We've heard this for literally, literally nine months at least almost a year now. Right. And at this point,

let me just see the movie, man. Like, I'm, you know, I'm not, like, excited. You know, I'm not, you know, like, totally looking forward to it. And today, man, just show me the movie. And we'll see where it goes from there, man. Like, I'm not here for the, for the victory lap before things even out. You know what I mean? Like, let's, we'll have to just see it and make our own decisions.

you know, but the gas is insane. I've never heard gas like this before in a minute since like in-game Infinity War. Like it's been crazy. You said in-game first. But let me, okay, so let's look at this with a critical eye real quick. First of all, I love the trailer. And I'm expecting to love a lot of the things

that come out about the movie. I've been hearing about the movie for a long time. I know some people that have seen it. Those two guys have seen the tweets. the movie's almost certain to let us down now because at this point it would have to be so fucking good. It's unnatural.

It's a natural guess. It's crazy. It's so fucking good. Okay. Now, compared to other DC movies, it might be the Mona Lisa of their film series, but I doubt that the movie is,

that it changes the landscape of superhero movies in the future, which is what some people are saying. So let's go back. So the film was shot. Principal photography is, I think, from April on October in 2021. That's when they do principal on the movie.

After that, they have a little understanding of what they have from being able to watch their dailies. And then after that, to be able to put their, there's their CG in and then see how things are looking and see how the scripts come together. So I'll let people know, you have a fantastic set of creatives here. You have Andrew Mochetti from It.

You have Goldstein, Harold, and Daly who wrote the script here. You have great creatives here, and you have a cast of very talented people. So if the movie is really good, I wouldn't be surprised. Now, the reason why I bring up the dates that this movie was shot is because these were the dates that the film was shot. And if you listen to a lot of the more notable issues that we mentioned about Ezra Miller, those issues took place in 20. So I want to let people understand. I want to let people know something here. And you're comparing this to any other situation that might be out there in fandom

with actors who are making trouble or are in some trouble. This movie was shot. Principle was done. They spent around $200 million on it. And they liked what they saw. Now, they went through a couple of different reshoots in terms of moving the characters around, James Gunn taking over, yanking, Superman out that bitch if they did or like they said in all kinds of stuff okay

they went through a couple of different things but I mean that's what they did they had the motherfucker show up they said hey you're a Superman and then it went sight you know what I'm saying you the witcher bitch just like that just like that's what they said hey here like no he came into James guns off James Gunn's office James gun was like eating a glizzy he looks like the kind of person that eats like a hot dog musseling on it He just looks like a hot dog eater. Pull up James Gunn's face right now. Looks like a hot dog eater?

And tell me right now. Hold on, hold on. Hey, pull up James, listen to this podcast right now. Pull up James Gunn's face right now and tell me if James Gunn doesn't look like somebody who enjoys like a good hot dog. What other celebrities are glizzy eaters? Like you can just tell by their faces. Terry Cruz. For sure.

A glizzy gobbler? No, right. Terry Cruz for sure. It was like he enjoys a hell of a hot dog. And he comes home and you know how like, you've been to somebody's crib before and they just got like the wiener water in the pot. And you see them. You see them putting the hot dogs.

And he's like, hey, dog. We ain't letting you do Terry like this. Pour the wiener water out. Like him, Mario Lopez. Anyway. Okay, all right. You need to stop. So he was eating it.

He came in. He's eating the fucking thing. He goes, get out. get out you're the witcher you're fired that's what he did to rickable anyway um so i say all that to say this they shot a movie with a star and they spent 200 million dollars on it and it's a good movie to them unlike the bad girl situation you guys are out of your fucking minds if you think they're going to shelve their movie they put their movie out especially with the other things that have gone on at warner discovery with the other shows that have been canceled with the

pivot that they did in terms of their content, their movie's coming out. Their movie's coming out. So, the audience needs to make a decision. Go to the movie and like it or don't go see it. But belly aching about the fact that

it's coming out, Ezra Miller would have had to assault, kidnap, or groom somebody much more important than the people he did for this movie not to come out. This, the, the conversation around Ezra Miller has as much to do with the people that he's

alleged, excuse me, with the people that they are allegedly victimizing as it does with the crimes themselves. Native women, indigenous women, indigenous people, fight and continue to fight in this country to have what happens to them all over the place, all the time, respected in the same way. So if we really want to get into it, this is the ugly part of the business,

this is the ugly part of the fandom, this is the ugly part of it. But you might as well not even worry about that. I'm serious. They're putting their movie out. They're going to act like none of it happened. And I'm telling you right now that the publicity run before this,

which is probably going to start in a week or two, is going to be magnificent. And look, from all of what I just read off for everything that we talked about, Ezra Miller's troubled. It seems like in a big way. So what we're going to do here on the Midnight Boys is we're going to talk about this

and discuss this in the way that we did the one time and then when the flash comes out, we're going to cover the flash like we cover any other superhero movie. because the movie itself is going to drop. It's going to be in theaters despite everything that I just read. So that's where it is. So can I ask this, Van?

Sure. Can I ask this? Because we're talking about this off there. I want to know. Do you think that we are in an era now where because we're heading into a recession, because of the streaming bet to not work out for a lot of these companies, they're laying off people all this shit? The whole, I don't think celebrities ever actually changed in the last five or six years.

just think that they got better at hiding their dirt and hiding who they really were. And are we getting back to an older Hollywood where it's just like, hey, look, motherfuckers you look up to our terrible people. We're still going to make this movie. Like, is that the type of era work? Because it seems like that's basically where we're at, where it's just like, fuck it, we're trying to make money. Like, we're tired of acting like, this is a moral business when, and in fact, it's a

business of goons and goblins. Fascinating question, query, and commentary on where we are, and let me just give you the TMZ answer to that, is there used to be an understanding way back in the olden days. I won't bring up any specific names like a dead off air, that prodigious talent went along with some proclivities and some eccentricities that sometimes spill over into things that are deeply harmful to other people. And people would just accept it. They'd be like literally like, oh, but he made

this or she made this or they did this or they did that. And it was just like, hey, rock stars getting trouble. You know, you'd hear stories back in the day. Rock stars go to a hotel room and fuck the hotel room up. Even as a kid, I was like, look, I'm making that scene cool. Don't somebody got to clean that shit up? You know what I'm saying?

David Lee Roth, not going in there cleaning up the shit. Like, that's kind of fucked up, right? You throw a chair out the window on the Sunset Boulevard. What if it hit somebody? Like, we just accept that. And it's like, hey, the rock star, you know. But to your point, in the last 10 or 15 years, there's been a sort of pivot to where almost as soon as somebody becomes famous,

the goal is to examine whether or not they have a pure enough past to warrant the adulation that they're going to get from their ability to perform. And that's annoying sometimes, but sometimes things are uncovered that are deep. deeply, deeply troubling. I do think that people are losing their patience with that. I think that people are losing their patience with believing or thinking that boy and Girl Scouts make up Hollywood or make up the NBA or make up the NFL.

I think the question becomes for everybody, what level of dysfunction and what level of harm are you willing to deal with for your entertainment? and that's the question that you'd ask with Ezra Miller. That's the question that you'd ask with R. Kelly. It's the question that you'd ask with myriad people. And that's a question that we're going to have to ask when we're watching The Flash. Now, perhaps Ezra Miller comes out and talks about something

that makes people feel differently. But the motherfucker was on a war path. that is just the reality. See, here's the thing. This is not me. I am not co-signing anything. I'm just saying that the... I agree.

Yeah. Yeah, I get it. The temperature in the air seems like this is the Hollywood that I grew up with, which is just like, shut the fuck up. Like, we're trying to make money now. And like, as much as I think my generation,

especially, which is like, all right, we're changing things. You know, I think the machine is always going to win and the machine is always going to kind of revert back to its basest, most hellish self. which is sad. I mean, you're in Hollywood, van, so you know that.

Oh, no. No, I mean, it's all gone for me. I worked at TMZ for nine years. The stuff that I, the stuff that I saw, man, I remember one time, I, just real quick, we gotta go, because we don't want to take too much away

from midnight court, but I'll say this. I remember one time, I'm talking to this guy, and, you know, he has a friend, right? There's a big time celebrity, a huge celebrity, huge celebrity.

I don't know if I've ever told this story before. And he's talking to me, he's like, yeah. And like the only person I can really trust is this dude. This is the one that I know is in my corner. I know. And I wanted to tell him so bad, I wanted to be like, that's our source. I wanted to tell him so bad. I wanted to be like, hey, that's our source.

And I don't know why. He was doing it. But I don't know why. And I really still to this day in that one specific situation, don't know why he was doing that. But I'm like, that's the guy that's God, my day one, that's our source. I didn't do it. And so what I'm saying is.

Can I ask you this? Was it enough? Did he get enough from this arrangement where it was like, yeah, I'm going to sell out my day one friend? I don't know. But it was just, it was just, I see him around still. And I'm like, damn. you know what I'll say is like I say that to say and that's obviously not the

celebrity that's somebody else but it's grimy and it's grimy across it's grimy that me Jeremy renter got into some shit back right I mean it's like it's grimy it's grimy so this is one where you can't say you didn't know either watch it or don't no house of our this Friday but on Monday Ben Lingberg and I will be giving you our instant reactions on the latest Star Wars video game, Jedi Survivor. Then on Tuesday, the House of Arr is back, and they're going to give you their trope series on magical plagues on May the 4th. Mint Edition digs into season two with Star Wars visions.

Can't wait. And last but certainly not least, next Friday, the boys are returning to give you our instant reactions to Guardians of the Galaxy, Volume 3. Our producer is Steve, the architect Alman. Jami Adirond is on social. Hashtag Bad Bayliff, no squeezy. That's pretty good, Steve. That's good, Steve. That's good.

Bad Bail of No Squeezy on social media. Additional production from our Judah Romkapal, Charles, stick us out. Hollywood is grimy. Unfortunately, Ezra Miller is almost back. I want to leave you with this. Danos will always be more than just a purple. Zach. Kai is Madison and Jomey and Steve are Roman.

Jomey's just like yelling at him while he's pissing on the mountain. That was a great scene. That was an amazing scene. I think I'm never yelling at a motherfucker who's pissing outside. There's all that steam in the cold air. Forget out of year. Also, what's going to stop him from just going like, whoop? Man, I'll be on.

be real with you, like he, he, like, Roman was one step away from attacking him. So he, he's got, yeah. Roman was pissed. The nine foot tall Viking, yeah, that would work out great for him. There's two of them. And they fucking, and they lost.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Matton with a fuck, go out to them up. Yeah, Matt, man. Northman body. Nah, man, you're not, bro. Yeah, you are crazy. Like, you know, bro. They're telling me to Romani not soft.

I'm telling you, I'm not saying it's, bro, there's no way he should be. able to beat the two of them. Who's the other? Have you seen the scars guard without a shirt on? I've seen them. But what does that matter? Like, that don't have nothing to do with it.

Like, you know, come on. If you talk about in character, like, in character, like, I don't see both of them dudes in a fight. Yeah. Do you think Roman and can know how to fight? Madsen knows how to fight. That's a face that's never take. Roman has never taken a punch in his life.

Brough, I don't, taking a serious punch in his life. It's two of them. They should be able to take him down. I think y'all, I don't know. How many fights have you guys been in before? It's still like, it's two of them. Man, you think me and Steve can take you down, bro? Yeah.

I mean, the only difference, though, is I'm a trained fighter. And so I'm a knock Steve out quick. And you, you know, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is facts. Like, Jomi is a, but y'all should be able to, especially if you catch me off guard. He was pissing. You know what I'm saying? Especially if you catch me off guard, you should be.

able to, but Steve's going fast. Wait, because I'll have to say, last thing, if you're fighting a dude with his, with his dick out, it's like Samson.

He, like, loses, like, 50% of his power to Vance point. Like, you know what I'm saying? Mid-pice. It's like, does he still need to pee while he's fighting?

Is he peeing during the fight? Yeah, come on. And then the dick is out. Anyway, the one interesting about that. Yeah. All right? You're recording that whole time.

That's right there.