The Ringer-Verse - 'Moon Knight' Episode 1 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

The Midnight Boys have returned to give their instant reactions to the season premiere of 'Moon Knight' (05:02). They dive into what they think of the MCU debut of Oscar Issac and Ethan Hawk and what they would like to see from the latest MCU show. Later they also debate how essential some MCU shows and movies really are (59:36). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes Guests: Steve Ahlman, Jomi Adeniran Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. into the ringerverse. This is, of course, the ringer's nexus podcast fee

for all things fandom. We are. Jemey, the explainer at dinner on. About questions, he's got answers. We are. Steve Almond Joy, the cuddily

Oscars white bear. We are. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimfaya, offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks,

followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairad.com.

This episode is brought you by Boris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep-fried turkey is now available at your local deli. Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today.

Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borershead committed to craft since 1905. Coke Baby Chuck, the 24-carried closure. And of course, we are old man Van. He of the receding hairline. we are known as The Midnight Boys. This Friday,

the House of R will be giving you their deep dives into the first season premiere of Moon Night. The season premiere of Moon Night, we'll be talking about that today, but they're going to deep dive it. And there's a lot to deep dive in this show,

I'm going to say. It's weird. It's off kilter. You know what I mean? There's like little Easter eggs all around, you know, abound Chuck. Are you looking forward to the deep dive?

Chuck, you have a beautiful green champion. Like, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful color on you, Chuck. Thank you, man. Thank you. I'm trying to switch it up for spring. I feel you. I'm doing, well, I'll switch it up too much.

The Midnight Boys are going to be giving you our instant reactions this entire season on Moon Night. He's a Moon Night. Consue, the Avatar for him. We're going to be talking about it. I'm very excited about it. Also, you know, here on the feed, we're going to be sprinkling more stuff in. There's a big discourse on the old Twitter sphere right now about Morbius. I can't believe y'all are making me see this movie.

I'm like really upset. This is the job. My girl was like legit. Like she's like, do you have to go see that Morbius movie? I keep getting hit up with ads about that. And I'm like, dog, man. I don't try to get out of this viewing so many times. The reality is that you got to do your job.

I bet she doesn't let you come and tell her about her job. I bet she's a photographer, right? So the next time she takes a picture of like a deer or something like that, you see the picture, you just fucking take the picture, throw the picture. Don't make me come on that Oscar stage. Don't talk about my fucking wife. Don't talk about it. Hey, keep my girlfriend's name out your fucking mouth.

This is not making the pot, by the way. This is not on the pot. Why? Why? Why would you not have this in the pot? You think people think that we've been hiding enough. This better make the pot. By the way,

I want that clip. Can you imagine? Think about if this happened at Avengers Compound. Just real quick, on this lap. Because we have to do it. Because, okay, remember, ooh, I got a scene for you. Check this out. Remember the scene where fucking Thor is talking to...

Who is he talking to? Thor is talking to... Is it Iron Man? They're going back and forth and they're talking. What if that would have turned? What if Thor smacks Iron Man? And then fucking Iron Man has to, like, Thor out. Iron Man has to turn it to Iron Man

and then they got to do the whole Oscar stage thing. Y'all not. Steve's uncomfortable. I don't understand why you would be uncomfortable with that, Steve. The whole fucking world is talking about it. Steve, you know who you're acting like? Steve, you're acting like Jim Carrey. You're Steve, Jim Carrey, Allman, right now.

I'm not disgusted. I'm not. Yes, you are. No, I'm not. Steve. Steve, Steve, is that Judd-Apital in the background? Steve. Steve, John Appetalton. Steve.

Steve. Listen, Iron Man could kill Thor. You got to kill Thor. Iron Man's going to kill Thor. He got to kill Thor. He's got a kill Thor. You know?

Steve, Zoe Kravitz. Black Twitter, this is the breakout. I want Black Twitter to find Steve's receipts. Look, I'll be honest with you. Steve, you're fucked. I can't believe this happened to you. I know Steve got questionable takes back in that. I want to see Steve's,

I want to see Steve's takes about I want to see Steve's takes about. I want to see Steve's takes. All right, let's start the pot. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we got to go to Midnight Manifest. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

We're going to be giving you our thoughts on the season premiere of Moon Night. Let's get into it. Steve, the spoiler warning. We're getting ready to talk about Moon Night. You're listening to a reaction. Podcast. The spoilers are coming. As always, they'll keep you guys in the know about season premiere, the season premiere,

should I say, of Moonnight, Season 1, Episode 1, Moonnight. We got Charles with the Midnight Manifest. Chuck Wagon, taking away. All right, guys, this is the Midnight Manifest. The first one for Moon Night, going to be a little longer than usual. Got a lot to dig into. The episode is called The Goldfish Problem. It was directed by Mohamed Eve.

who directed Cairo 678, Amira, created and written by Jeremy Slater. You might know him from Netflix's The Umbrella Academy, Netflix's Death Note, and the great superhero movie 2015's Fantastic Four. It stars Oscar Isaac and Ethan Hawk. Here's a brief history of Moon Night. He debuted in 1975's Werewolf by Night, number 32 by Doug Monk, and Don Perlin. It was originally a Batman pastiche that, through the years, leaned on the gimmick of having schizophrenia or multiple-personation.

disorder, which became problematic in its own way because we do not, say, multiple personality disorder anymore. Over the years, Moon Knight's various aliases, Mark Specter, Stephen Grant, Jake Lockley, became personalities he'd inhabit, and then Mark's relationship with the Egyptian moon god consue that grants him his powers is often used as an antagonist against Mark as he struggles to know if the god is real or just a figment of his imagination. And in this episode, Stephen Grant wakes up in his London flat with ankle restraints tied to himself. We see the various things Stephen sets up to notify himself whether he's been

sleepwalking or not. That means ankle restraints, sand circles around his bed, tape on the door. Stephen works as a gift shop employee at the National Art Gallery. His manager hates him, and he doesn't remember asking out a very attractive tour guide on a stake date despite being a vegan. Stephen is placed on inventory duty after repeatedly being late for work. Then one day, Stephen wakes up in the Swiss Alps with no idea how he got there and finds a gold scarab in his his pocket. Stephen hears the voice of Kanchu in his head, telling him to surrender his body to Mark. Soldiers starts shooting at Stephen, so he runs into the town where a cult-like ritual is being performed by their leader, Arthur Harrow. Harrow uses the power of the Egyptian god

Amit, aka the eater of the dead, aka the devourer, to judge people. The cane he uses as a scale tips in the wrong direction. That means the person forfeits their life to him and Amet. Stephen is found out. His mercenary personality takes over and dispatches of Harrow's thugs. When wakes up, he steals a cupcake fan and a chase ensues over the gold scarab. Stephen wakes up in his flat and he's concerned that his fish gus now has two fins. A pet shop owner informs Stephen, he was there yesterday complaining about the exact same thing. Time out. Taking a deep breath. Stephen realizes he misses his stake date because days have passed. Then Stephen finds a flip blown and storage key hidden in his flat. Layla calls and asks for Mark, inquiring where he's been for months and why he has a British accent. Stephen freaks out once

he starts hearing Mark's voice in his head and runs into an elevator in his apartment, where he finally meets Conchu at the museum the next day. Mark is confronted by Harrow who judges him and finds chaos within him. And lastly, that night, Stephen is chased by the jackal creature and has to give his body over to Mark Specter, who uses his powers as Moon Knight to dispatch of the creature. And that is our first midnight manifest of the season. Woo!

That was a M.M. a meaty manifest. Charles, did you feel like... A girthy manifest. A lot of girth to it. It's too early for this, man. It's too early to more for this, man. I'm sorry, bro.

I'm a child. My child. Meaty and girthy. Perfect combination. Someone's say the most important. Who knows? So immediate thoughts on Moon Night. I'm going to go first.

I'm just going to let people know how things go here on the Midnight Boys in the Ring ofverse Network. We talk about these shows before we pile. We have group texts. We have two group texts. There's two group texts. One is with the full Ringerverse family.

That's the group text where, you know, Mal and Joe are on there and it's us talking and sharing and being a big family. And then there's the Midnight Boys group text to where it's probably, as I'd say, plus 50% shenanigans. That's too low. That's way too low.

Yeah, that's probably more. A generous term. If you think we're rough on the podcast, the group text gets rough. And we should just go ahead and get into the fact that on the Midnight Boys group text, our immediate thoughts on this show were pretty diverging. I liked the show. I thought that the show was, it didn't break any new ground. but it had a new energy, if that's fair.

I didn't feel like I was blown away by anything, but the energy of the show, the tone of the show was something that I felt like I hadn't seen in any Marvel properties before, and I'm glad that they tried it. Of course, there are things about the show that I wasn't expecting

in ways I didn't expect them to go, but overall, it was cool. It feels like my partner over here, my partner in crime, that you felt a little differently, Charles. where were your immediate reactions to Moon Knight? If we want to be real, I'm not even trying to fake the funk, okay?

I think I called it Midnight. Because I just was very let down. This is the first MCU show that truly is introducing an entirely new character, not just somebody who was inhabiting a mantle, the way that Sam was Captain America or with Hawkeye. So I was very, very excited. I thought Moon Night was going to be it. I thought it was going to break the MCU Disney Plus curse in terms of like this was going to be one of the first shows that felt as vital as the movies.

And Loki is an anomaly. And they gave critics for four episodes. And I'm not going to spoil the plot of any of those episodes. I think it's just important for me to like lay that groundwork that I've seen more than the general audience. and I left being like, man, this could have been a movie. Instead of being like a five hour, six hours, I was just like, we got to wrap this up.

And the reason I say that shit. That's so harsh, bro. We got to wrap this up, okay? All right, here's the thing. I'm going to use a metaphor. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an artist. I took a lot of art classes. And one thing I learned, when you're learning how to create,

like you're going to draw an orb where you're going to draw a cube. My teacher once said, to make it look more realistic, you need to make the shadows darker and you need to make everything lighter, if you're really trying to make that contrast happen. What's happening on Moon Night is,

is that it's partially a horror show, but nothing is actually that horrific. It's a martial, he's a martial arts master, at least he's a very, very good fighter, but there's not any really great fight scenes isn't this? So what you're ending up getting is it's not really that scary. The fighting isn't that good. And it's an adventure almost Indiana Jones type show that's not that great at being adventurous or making me care about what they're searching for. And to me, that's a problem. It's a show

that has cross wires. And the reason I bring all this up is that they just put Daredevil on Disney plus. There's a show that we have seen how dark a show can get, how gritty something can be. And Moon Night in the comics is way closer to Daredevil than he is to any other character, besides Batman in the DC. And when I was watching it, I was just like, all right, so this is still family-friendly fair? Everybody was talking about there's going to be dark, this is going to be violent. And I was like, oh no, every single time Mark gets into a fight, we never see it. Every single time something cool happens, we never see it. And I'll end on this point. The entire first episode, most of the big set pieces we had already seen in the commercials, whether it was the van,

whether it was like Moon Knight beating up this Jackal creature. And once he turns into Moonlight, I'm like, all right, shit about to get, he's about to get scrappy, he about to beat this shit out of his Jackal. And then I realized I'm like, oh, wait, everything we saw of Moon Knight was in the trailer. What the fuck is happening? Uh, so, those are kind of like my big issues at least with like that first episode where I was like, I don't know if they stuck the landing. Jomey Steve?

I hear you, Charles. Like I hear what you say. But I got to be honest. I really I really don't care. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be honest, Jomey. You've been in the pocket. You've been in the pocket of Michael now since we started this fucking podcast.

So I don't know if you don't care of shit. How do you think I afforded these chains, bro? You know what I'm saying? Can't afford the dripper. The chain. Shout out Michael. Your chain?

Really? That shit is so skinny. I know. Tim, Kevin Feige. You got to start. You got to start. Oh, wow. You better start using.

God damn. First off, we got to start somewhere. You know what I'm saying? You got to start off a little, you know, I'm not a big jewelry guy, but I let me spend. Damn, what I got. They ran out of rock and all the chains. Shit. Jesus.

Well, not. It's tough over, moon night. Here's the thing, right? I came in expecting, like, a weird show. And that's what I got. And so, like, I'm all for it. You know, the whole premise is that Mark Specter, Stephen Grant, like, they're off kilter. You know, there's something wrong with them in terms of the disassociative identity disorder, right?

And that's something they have to deal with. And so seeing Stephen, like, literally, like, appear and then, like, wake up how long later in a whole new, like, basically a whole new country, you know, dealing with something. something that's not like not his problem, Steven's problem, but he doesn't know that. He doesn't know that Mark is there. He doesn't know that Mark has taken over and whatever. And then seeing him freak out over Conshu,

all that stuff was like, all right. Like I came here for a show where character doesn't know what's happening at all, like where it's just like off kilter, like I said, weird. And I got it. So I have no complaints about the first episode. I was locked in off tap dead.

Steve? I deeply enjoyed it. And number one, I think Oscar Isaac is so good, so fast. Oh, yeah. In this show. Yeah. And we're going to talk about, like, this is a brand new character that we need to be introduced to. The origin story question is going to be something that when we get this new crop of heroes is going to be a question as to how they make that new and interesting every time.

And I think this is a great start when you have a very good actor in Oscar Isaac making bold and exciting decisions with. its mainstay character without even actually seeing, you know, the superhero involved. And I think that this first episode actually does a pretty good job of, you know, laying into the intricacies of what Mark is about. So here's the thing. I've listened to what everyone had to say. And look, I enjoyed the show because I enjoyed the show. Not a ton of Moon Night that we've gotten.

And also, we haven't really gotten very much. This is the thing. It's hard to know how much moon night. matters sometimes. I'll be honest with you. The actual character, I'm going to be honest with you. The actual character of Moon Night.

Moon Night in the, so, and I'm not mad at it, but it is an interesting storytelling device. So I'll put it to you like this. You compare this to Daredevil, which obviously with some of the

storytelling constraints that they're going to be under, as far as this being on Disney Plus, we are going to have to temper our expectation. then he's not going to be knocking people's faces off on Disney Plus, Charles. I mean, they don't, but they don't show anything. I know. They don't, like, they literally just don't show the fights. Well, that's part of the point, right?

Because we're spilling from Stephen to Mark. We don't see Mark. No, I get it. But see, here's a thing, though. Just because there's an explanation for something doesn't mean that it's good or that it makes sense, right? So there's an explanation for us to why we don't see. But I could see people who want to see how badass, what a badass Mark is. and see them get down.

This was my point, though. So take Daredevil season one, or take any of these shows. The first thing they do, one of the things they do is they make it super clear how important the hero actually is. Like how vital the hero is.

This show is attempting not to do that, right? This show is attempting to tell us how chaotic things are around and they're letting us find that center. Season one of Daredevil spends the entire season, season is really one of the most masterful first seasons in any fandom ever the entire first season building you to a point where you see daredevil you don't see him as daredevil until the

end of the show you get the guy in the costume right but by that by that point it's such a harrowing moment because they've made you believe that uh matt becoming daredevil is central and key to everything that's going on. This show doesn't even attempt to do that. So to watch it, you have to give it a little bit longer of a leash because you don't know when Moon Night's coming.

You're not quite sure like where Moon Knight actually fits in because things are so scattered between Mark and Stephen that you don't know what's filling the gaps. And I would say that

since we have seen all of these episodes, There's going to be a lot of heavy leg work to do on the back end of this show to kind of get that back together. However, that's a big picture problem. On the small screen, I was never bored. I thought the performances were good. It kept me wanting more. So as a show, as a show, I'm just watching this show, I've really enjoyed Moon Night. As far as the Moon Night portion of it, I don't know how much I know about Moon Night.

I don't know. I don't know. I haven't seen. I don't know what a badass moon night is. I don't know how like, and you know, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. We want to make sure we stay focused on the first episode here.

But, but yeah, so even with this first episode, just not a lot of moon night in it. Not a lot of moon night in the actual show. This first episode, though, get you guys excited for what else is coming. Did you look at this and go,

I can't wait. I'm on the edge of my seat. to see more moon nighty madness. Consue attack, baby. Moon Knight. Are you guys up for it? Charles, go ahead and throw water on it. No.

I think here's the thing. I want to be real with the audience. I think Moon Knight is like fine. I don't think it's like a bad show by any means. I don't think it's a great show. I just think it like it exists. It's a show. Which is like, it's cool.

Yeah, I don't know if I'm any more. more or less excited. I'm just kind of like, all right, yeah, next week there's going to be a new moon night and I'm going to have to watch.

Okay. So let me ask you this. So let's go ahead and move. What's your personal history with Moon Night, Charles? The character himself. When I was really, really into comic books,

when I was going like every single Wednesday, I remember picking up a comic book. I forget who wrote it, but it was drawn by David Finch. And I was the first time I had, like, read this weird character who he had these mental health issues. You didn't know

if Moon Knight was a figment of his imagination or the God he got his powers. And throughout the years, Moon Knight was never like an A-List character, but whenever he would, like, show up in the Avengers, he'd be like, all right, cool, yeah, Moon-Night's in here. Moon-Night's doing his thing. So, yeah, I'm not going to fake the funk. Like, people acting like Moon Knight was like some cherished, like, character in comics. This is not true.

He was just kind of like one of those people you saw in the back of, like, a Bendis comic, who you're like, oh, yeah, Moon Knight. He's the wacky guy. So that's kind of my personal history with it. He's one of those characters that like, so you ever meet a guy and his favorite character is The Punisher? Yes.

Steve is saying no. No, they are. There are these guys. Rarely are they good news. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, there are these guys that like you, everyone else is sitting around

and we're talking about, remember back when the onslaught saga was going on, you know what I mean, in the X-Men, and we're all talking comics books. We're sharing comics. We're talking about it's the biggest thing in the world. right and they're guys who are just they're collecting punisher every single frank castle story they're collecting it they're reading every single they're like i don't really like the ex-man like that

doesn't make any sense it's not real to me it's like i like to punish i like to punish i like to punish her moon night to me i've known moon night guys before and guys who like moon night truthers who keep over and over and over again trying to tell you how fucking amazing moon night is these guys used to be the same way about characters like maverick Or like maggot on the X-Men or some shit. They tell you over and over again how dope Moon Knight is. And I listened to one of them one time. And there was probably like a two or three-month period where I was into Moon-night,

not into him like I was buying and reading his books, but into him where I would talk to my friend Cody about him. Yeah, what's Moon-Night doing now? Tell me more about Moon-Night. He would tell me about Moon-night having fights with different guys and how powerful Moon-Night was. But it was just never a situation where the character was able to able to. to gain any real traction because then there was so much oxygen being taken up. However, because the character was so cool and so many people loved him and he was so off-kilter, I was really excited to see what they would do with them live action because I personally find

live action to be the point to where they can take these characters that don't have much lore to them and do all kinds of crazy, wacky, inventive things that you might not be able to to do with some of the other ones. Like, there's just not a lot of ways you can take Captain America or Superman or Batman without people going, oh, but with Moon Knight, you can almost do anything you want. And to me, that was part of the reason why I was so intrigued for this show. And I got to say, after the first episode, that intrigue has not left me. I am still intrigued.

For those that, like, aren't aware of Moonnight Comics, I think the interesting thing about his history is that when a new writer comes on Moon Knight, essentially, what they do is they wrecked con him each time. What ends up happening is that he's this Batman pastiche, he's this crime fighter, he has all of these aliases, Mark Specter, Stephen Grant. Then as you get farther in his history,

somebody would be like, actually, those are all different personalities. He has mental health. That happens. And then somebody's like, what if Conchu isn't even real? So each time you read Moon Knight, he's the type of character

that when people come on to Moon Night, they try to make it work. And I think the thing that is in the back of the Disney Plus show is that in comic books, comic books, comic books, they do not have a long and illustrious history with dealing with mental health very well and mental illness.

And so what ends up happening is this show has to not play into a lot of the dangerous tropes of dissociative identity disorder because you see a lot of movies, like Fight Club or United States of Terra where people have different personalities and they're violent and that's super problematic

and I wanted to ask you, VED, how did you feel like they handled the mental illness health aspect of it in the first episode up, please? Can I be unwoke for a second? I'm so scared, yes. I just want to be unwoke for a second, man. I want to share something with the audience.

last night before I went to sleep I took Lexapro this morning I woke up I took Lexapro right we're winging off the Lexer Pro there have been times in my life where I've had to take not just Lexapro but doxopin so I could sleep

getting through my depression and all of that stuff like that I get it I don't give a fuck oh geez I don't care man it's a comic book show the guy's going back and forth between personalities.

Handle it as well as you can. It can't be perfect all the time. Guess what? I like Fight Club. To this day, it's a wacky, crazy, fairy tale of a movie about a guy who goes to sleep and wakes up as another guy. There are plenty of places that we need to have serious, very earnest conversations about mental health.

But sometimes, sometimes the story is just the story. And not one time watching this show that I think, oh my God, I need to clutch pearls because they're not getting the disassociative personality situation right. It's been something that's been a trope. It's been something that's been done different ways. I get it. Not everything that's done is done right. But God damn it, man.

Sometimes I just want to watch Moon Night be wacky and talk. talk to himself in the mirror. I'm really, you guys, you're not losing me. I'm not saying, I am not saying that we don't need to handle these things right. But what I am saying is, I don't fucking care. Just like, I didn't see anything that was personally offensive to me. If anybody else saw something, I would love to have you on this podcast so we could discuss it and we can talk about it. Can I push back a little bit?

No, don't push back a little bit. Kick me in my chest. Tell me where I'm wrong. And I don't know, I don't know where it's going to land. I don't, I haven't watch all six episodes. I think what I'm still searching for, and I always search for this in the comic books, and especially in this show, is that when you give somebody a mental illness, there needs to be a larger point that you're saying, in my opinion, besides, isn't it wacky that he has

two personalities? And that's the thing that I think by the end of six episodes, they're going to have to land somewhere. like as the creators, what are you saying about this? It's not enough to be like, who's the real mark? Mystery, mystery, mystery. I do think that like, this is serious. And as a storyteller, it is your job to be careful of being like, oh, we can't just give somebody a mental health issue

just because we think that would be like cool. And it's like great when he like has amnesia and doesn't realize he beat up a bunch of people. I do think that like narratively as a storyteller, you have to like have some type of. of point. Well, yeah, I think you have to find a middle ground because he can't just have

if Mark's going to run around the MCU for how long they're going to do it, he can't be doing this forever, right? And so at some point they need to find something to, you know, whether it's split the personalities into, like, how are they solve it? But to Charles's point,

that, like, the best way to do that is probably like, like, take this thing seriously. And I have like, you know, a little discussion about it, you know, about his disorder and how you know, to fix him. I think we haven't, again, like, we haven't seen all six episodes, so maybe they do that in the back half.

We don't know. But at the same time, there needs to be like some conversation around it because that's how you get this character to where you want to get it. You know, it's really like a storytelling thing at the end of the day. Like, you have to do it,

and the best way to do it is take his mental health seriously. And I think to the shows, or at least this first episode's credit, there was a moment that really stuck out with me as to how it illuminates, like, Mark's struggle that he's having when he's at that restaurant and he is missing out on the date and he calls her and he does not realize what day it is and he hangs up the phone with her and he has to kind of like sit with himself for a second.

She's bad too. And here's the thing I will say you know she's like, you know like he's like he's like fuck like he fumbled the bag because that man's a vegan and he decides to eat a steak. He's like fuck all this shit, bro. She was bad. But it's also like, because like I've, I've spaced out on certain things. Like I haven't missed what day it was. But like there's been a time when like your mind just goes away from you and like you've just completely spaced out.

And granted there's a lot more going on with Mark than this. But like when he has to kind of like swallow that entire moment to be like, I didn't know what day it was. And I missed out on something really great. Like that was really a profound moment, I think, with Oscar Isaac portraying that. And I really like that a lot. Why are you smiling, Ben? When Steve Space is out, who does he become? Think about this real quick.

Real quick, we'll get back to Moon Night. When Steve spaces out, so Mark becomes, so Stephen becomes Mark Specter Moon Knight. What's his face? I don't even get the guy's name, becomes Tyler Darden. Oh, Mike, I just realized. Steve becomes the sactivist. He starts, he starts to DM.

Oh, my God. Honey's and being like, you want to go see? Steve, that's what happened. Steve, Steve, Steve spaced out. Steve just spaced out and he just wakes up. He just spakes out and just wakes up in Harlem. I'm like on the ground with a broken jaw. Now, why would they break your jaw?

Hold on, stop. I fell out of window. Why would they break your jaw in Harlem, Steve? see what I'm saying? These are the problems. See what I'm saying? Why would they break your jaw in Harlem, Steve? Wow.

I mean, that's nuts. He did get his job, bro. I won't, wait. Can I just say really quick? Steve, do you, have you guys seen the picture of Andrew Garfield in a du rag? Does Steve just wake up with a du rag on me? It's just like, his waves just spinning. Steve wakes up, du rag on.

He got a cool cigarette hanging out of his mom. He got the pomade and the brush. He's just brushing his hair. It's just, he's like, what? I'm like, what day is it? It's going to be so funny when Steve knocks on my door one day. Like, hey, y'all got any greens in there? Man, y'all cooking?

I'm like, Steve? Hey, y'all got any greens in now? Y'all cooking? Like, Steve, come in, bro. Come in, lay down. Waves looking like Norman Osborne? Yeah, Bozeman doesn't. Waves look like Norman Osborne.

Bozeman. Listen, Norman Osborne was dripping in the comments. He was wavy. Bro. Norman Osborne And then it's hereditary. Yeah. They all have the waves.

I need to see, because the next Spider-Man, I need to see Norman Osborne in a wave-cap. They got to bring the waves. You got to have waves. Anybody that's an Osborne, they got like,

they got the waves. It's hereditary. Can I, can I quarter-flip really, really quick before we get off the mental health thing? Sure. I want a quarter-flip.

I was confused because I watched this episode twice. And I will say on the second watch, having watched four episodes, I would tell people, like, the first episode, pay attention. They set up so fucking much.

Like, it's actually masterful how much they set up. But I want a chord flip. So the tour guide comes up to Stephen, and Stephen doesn't realize that he asked her out. And first I was like, oh, did Mark ask her out? And then I'm like, this would be weird if Mark asked her out because Mark has an American accent.

So I'm confused about who asked her out on the date because she, like, I'm assuming she'd be like, why are you talking in a British accent? I feel like she mentioned it. I don't think so. I watched it twice and I was like, she didn't point out how weird it this is? Or perhaps there's more to,

more to be discussed. That's a great A quarter flip, though. They might describe it because they make it seem like it was not Stephen because why would Stephen invite a woman out to a steak restaurant when he's a vegan? So that, and I was just kind of like,

Wait, why is she not mentioning that he's acting different? And then the other quarter flip I had, and they might describe this is, is that at one point, like, he keeps calling his mom. And I'm not sure if anybody else is on the other line. But I was just like, is his mom like, this is weird? Why do you have a British accent? Also, how does he get a job as Stephen Grant? Like, does he have like a social security number?

Like, how does that all happen? It's only been a couple months from what Layla said. So I'm just kind of like, how does he have? have all of this. So, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to choose to ignore everything you just said. Problem solved. There you go.

Easy. I'm making a choice, Charles. In my life, I'm making a choice. I'm not saying that the things that you just said didn't warrant more investigation. What I'm saying is, I don't have any answers for you. Because I don't, I'm going to choose to ignore it. I'm in a hotel room. I have a lovely robe on.

I don't want to think about these things in this particular point because really I don't know. But there's so many, but I will say this, it's a bit of a quarter flip just because there's so many things like that in comics, in comic book shows and movies and situations like that, like how people get jobs and, you know, whether or not. I could start going, look, I could start going down a no way home, watch at home, rabbit hole about all the inconsistencies about no way home that I saw when I've watched it at home. and they would run us right off the fandom. We would get rid out of the gym. They would run us right off the fuck at Midnight Boys. You know what? I hate them.

Although they're so negative. All right. This is the first time you're ignoring a Carter flip. I'm not saying that they won't explain it. Just on the second rewatch, I was just like, wow, I have a lot of questions right now. That's true. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor

about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Okay, let's go back to something we've kind of been dancing around. And I especially want to Jomey on this. Because Jomey loves superhero badassness. He'll watch anything. He'll watch anything. Jomey will watch Agent Phil Colson run around for like episodes and episodes. But in this one, the titular character, Moon Night, it's about Moon Night.

In this first episode, you get very little moon night. Jomey, moving forward in this show for you, a guy who likes to watch this stuff, who's into the lore of it, right? Could you deal with this show getting the amount of moon night or even slightly more moon night, just slightly more moon night than you got? How much moon night are you going to need

in this show after this first episode to be locked in as locked in as you normally are? Slightly more moon night. I don't need... What's slightly more? Yeah, give us a percentage. So, like, let's say this episode was like 1% moon night, right? The first episode of 1%

moon night. I think we probably need like 5% to 10% moon night. 5 to 10% more moon night. Yeah. And the coming. That's marginal. Well, here's a thing. That's a marginal amount.

So here's a thing. No, you got to hear me. You got to hear me. Right. And we discussed us on the Midnight Boys text thread. It's about the characters. I don't know what kind of character Moonnight is. We've only seen him for, in this episode, we went on for like a little bit.

but I don't know if Moon Knight is the kind of guy you spend time with. Like Moon Knight himself, right? You get to know Mark, you get to know Stephen, right? That's how you get to know the character of Moon Knight, right? So if Moon Knight is just going to go around killing Jackals the whole time, right, and not speak, I don't really need to see, like, a cool, I like action. Like, I'm not going to be mad about, you know, them doing cool action stuff as that's what it is. but we get to know the character, the guy behind the mask, right?

Mark, so ultimately that's who I want to spend time with. That's how I want to get to know. Mark and Stephen more so than Moon Night. You don't need Moon Night doing cool, moon night, superhero things for this show to work for you. Well, I mean, that's the point of the show, right? That's why it's a TV show set of a movie, right?

So we get to know this character. All right, please stop the cap. Like, come up. Yeah, we should play me, play. No, no, that's not. No, all right, Joe, you're about to say, I really like, Like to Matt Reeves is Batman, but I could have used like 90% less Batman.

That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. We're going to get the big Marvel fight. We know this, right? We know this. You said I need 5% more Moon Knight. And the coming up, like, because I want to get to know Mark, I want to get to know Stephen, right? We don't get to do that if he's in a hood, white hooded cape fighting jackals.

Okay, so that's true. But isn't there? and this is and what we're talking about specifically is this is a different type of superhero movie, a different type of superhero storytelling for sure but I guess

let's take Superman the movie. Play it, go ahead and play it. And tell you a story. Okay, you sons of bitches. Okay, so Superman the movie. Why does Superman the movie work so well? Because Superman the movie gives you an equally compelling Clark Kent as it does of Superman.

Something that no Superman movie has ever been able to do since... Oh, Steve, you got one? I agree. I agree. Something no Superman movie has ever been able to do. You have Christopher Reeve, rest in peace to that beautiful, talented man, right? Who was able to be...

to give you a strong, resolute, human, superpower alien from Krypton and also give you equal parts bumbling idiot full of heart and bravery, right? He did a great job. The movie had to figure out how to give that character to you

in a way that made you respect both sides of that coin and it's very, very hard to do. Now, with Moon Knight here, this is a character that not a lot of people know, right? So because not a lot of people know him, they're going to want to get to know a little bit more. Like, the Superman, the Superman, Clark Kent thing, it's easier to pull off because there's such a

cultural understanding and knowledge of the character. At some point, you don't feel like, and this is a question for all you guys, you don't feel like people are going to want to see the reason why they sat down. Like, forget about us. But people are going to want to see the reason, right? They're going to want to see all of the stuff. Like, these movies are about the story,

but they're also about the stuff. You got to give people some stuff, man. I will say the thing that I think the show did great is that they just drop us in. Stephen slash Mark already have the suit. I was immediately like, this is genius. We don't need a lot of the setup of how we got the suit. Like put us in the middle of the story. We're smart.

We're going to figure it out. But I think the thing that has always been a problem with Moon Knight is that the best superheroes have superpowers that tell you something about their characters. I love Cyclops from the X-Men because Cyclops is very like one-track-minded. He's very like when he locks his eyes on something, that's where he goes. And what he's a cyclops. He can't see. Like he has tunnel vision. That tells you something about the character.

Wolverine has very feral problems. He has anger problems. So he has the powers of like a Wolverine would have. He has claws. He has the berserker rage. With Moon Night, what they're going to have to do is teach you like, what does Mark's powers, first of all, what's his power set, and what does his power set say about Mark?

What does Moon Knight say about him, the alter ego? Right now, the alter egos are just Stephen and Mark. Right now, we don't know who Moon Knight is, what he can do, and what it says about why we should care about this character. And I think that that's what the best superhero stories tend to do. And I don't know if Moon Knight can make that landing, but I hope it does. Wow, well said. Well said, Chuck Wagon.

Jesus Christ. They're going to hate me on this episode. He'll be like, fuck, go faking. Stop caring. Now, your friend from Baton Rouge, put the battery in my back. I'm like, I'm done. We baby Chuck is out of here. My home is from Baton Rouge who have now become, and by the way, I want to say,

I want to say a real quick shout out to everyone who I meet around town. I've been meeting people here in Atlanta. Been like, van, I love the Midnight Boys. Van, I love the Midnight Boys. You know, and I want to tell you guys how much that means to me every time you guys see me a big fan, love the Midnight Boys and stuff. And my friends from Baton Rouge, they don't like, they don't like soft baby Chuck. Got them.

They don't like Zima baby Chuck. All right. They don't like fucking smearing off ice baby Chuck. Spir it off ice. Damn. Spirn off ice. I like a nice red wine, man. I used to love spin it.

Oh, me and Charles got into sake. I had sake for the first. Hell yeah. It was great. Bro. You did hot sake? Hot sake? No.

Because when I asked the lady who, the bartender who was hilarious. She was so fun. She was so funny. I asked her, I was like, hey, what's the difference between Soki and Hot Sok? She goes, we literally just warm it up.

She was like, we take it, you're playing this thing. Oh, her review of Spider-Man No Way Home was so fucking fun. Her review of Spider-Man No Way Home was hysterical. She was like, I didn't get it. She was like, there was so much stuff happening. She was like, there was so much stuff happening. and like I was getting annoyed.

I couldn't follow it. I didn't understand why things were happening. He's like, it was like whatever to me. I was like, so funny. Stephen Grant, Oscar Isaac. What do you think about Oscar Isaac in this role? What do you think about the accent? There was a lot of Ballyhoo about the accent.

What do you guys have thoughts? It was quite good, isn't it? Isn't it? Isn't it? In it? It was quite good, isn't it? I was not, like, bothered by it as much as I was in the trailer. Like in the trailer, I was like, bro, what are you doing, bud?

Brough, what are you doing, bruff? But in the show, it was pretty good. Like, I'm my English. So my English, my English, brothers, sisters, y'all let us know how y'all feel. But really, I did not mind it too much. I mean, when I interviewed an accent coach who was from the UK about it, he was just like, yeah, Americans don't know what a British accent sounds like because there's so many variants of it. The same way in New York, there are like, if you go to a different borough, people talk. differently.

So when you watch it for an extended amount of time, I think you get used to the accent because it's just something we're not used to hearing as Americans. There's a variant of what he's actually saying. But I do think the part of it sometimes feeling a little bit amateurish to the American ears plays into the fact that what the show is kind of leading us is that Mark with an American accent might be, you know, the first version of these two people.

he's in creating this other personality. So I think it actually does work in terms of making you kind of question like, oh, there's something about this guy that he's really not revealing. That's off. Yeah. I think it works from that respect. I think it works from the respect that we don't really know if he really is who he thinks he is. So there's an, there's an authenticity about it that sort of works, you know.

That is over the top because it has to be over the top. over the top or he's thinking about how he's talking or he's unconsciously thinking about how he's talking. He's putting something on and we don't really know. Stephen's character here, Stephen Grant. Is he a little bit too much of a drag? Because in this whole episode, he's like, he's kind of, he's going through it, man.

I'm not going to lie. I feel when I first was like watching Steve, I'm like, all right, he's funny, cool. But increasingly, the more and more I watch, Stephen, It's on my goddamn nerves. Yeah, I was just like, this is kind of grading a little bit because he, yeah. I think the show thinks the mystery of who he is is more interesting than it actually is. I started being like, all right, we just got to.

Like, come on, guys, let's get to the action. Like, I don't need to see him like falling asleep and waking up. I'm like, where was I? That was cool, though. I'm not going to lie like that. That was cool, man. Like, he's like, he conks out. He wakes up and there's blood all over it because the thing that I liked about it is.

So he's in there with Arthur Harrow, who we'll get to Arthur Harrow, Ethan Hawke and how well Ethan Hawke is in his bag in this show. And I like the reactions, they like their reaction when he flips back. Like when they're in the city square or whatever and he's just beat up all of those guys, he doesn't realize he's done it,

but they are like, who the fuck is this? Like, because he's just brutalized. And the look on their face, they're kind of like walking slowly because they didn't expect that explosion of violence, which by the way, I'm hoping that maybe we'll get something in one of these episodes in the future where we get to see it from Mark's perspective. Like we get to see.

I've been waiting for that. But also, let's talk about the physical comedy. I like the physical comedy of when he's in the square and he has the scarab and he's like trying to give it away, but he can't. And then he's like walking back. Like Oscar Isaac is a very talented comedic performer in terms of like, you just laugh. You're just like, oh, like Stephen is very funny.

When I'm talking about when it started grading on me is all of that stuff happens. We get the big chase. And then he wakes up. He's like, my fish. And I'm just like this fucking fish. I'm honest with you. If I'm Spider-Man, No Way Home, I'm looking at Moon Night. Like, why are you jacking my sweat?

We did the, you can't grab the thing for me trick. That was us. That was me. In St. Thomas, that was me first, like Hoves said. You know what I'm saying? I think the funny part in him going like in and out of Mark Specter, but just hearing Consu be sick of that dude. It's like, ah, the idiot taps the body.

It is like, it's just really good. Which is really makes me want to see Mark's perspective on all of this one time. because like imagine that chase or that square scene from Mark's perspective where he just blacks out and he's like, oh, God, I got to beat up these guys now. Oh, God, I've got to like kill all these people in a car and then like I just black out again. I mean, it was interesting that he calls Conchu, Conchu calls Stephen the parasite and I'm like, aren't you the god that's feeding off of this life form? Like, like somebody's projecting, yeah. Yeah, like it tells you a lot about how Contchu just thinks he deserves the body. He's like, no, This is my body now.

Well, he is a god. Like, you probably, you're on a god unless you think a little bit higher of yourself. Yeah, you have to. It's part of, you know, you know what I mean? So Arthur Hero. Ethan Hawk. Creepy Ethan Hawk.

I don't know we've ever gotten creepy Ethan Hawth before. I'm trying to think. Ethan Hawks spent so many things. Have you seen last performed? Yeah, I have. Yeah. Oh, I was the priest. Yeah.

Yeah, he was kind of creepy. I don't know, guys. Have you seen this little-known movie called Training Day? He wasn't creepy. He wasn't creepy and training day. He wasn't keeping training day, but he was really good in it. So, you know. Jumman, what the fuck are you talking about right now?

I've never heard somebody be like, you know who's really good in training day? That eat off. Like, just imagine, hey, we're all talking about pizza. Jummi goes, you guys ever eat count chocula? That shit is really good. We don't talk enough about how good Ethan Hawke was. Well, fuck it. Let's do it.

I'll be honest with you. Training day, he was good. boyhood he was good Mother fucking Gough Gatica Oh yeah Gatica

All right We're not We're not We're not Gatica I watched that in science class I was like This movie is fucking

Gattaca Gattaca's a fucking Starry Gattaca's fucking out of here Gattaca You don't like Gattaca No

you think you don't like Gattaca Yeah you're Yeah you're awesome You don't like Julo Gila Jula did

bro bro you don't you don't like fucking Gataka That's terrible, bro. That's the one movie in class that we was rocking with. All right. Author Hero, the Amid Col, what do you guys think about them as villains in this? Are they creepy enough?

In the beginning, you know, motherfucker about his business when he puts glass in his sandals. You know, he's just like, I ain't fucking with that guy. I'm just not doing it. It's tough. The scale thing is fucking terrifying. Do you think he has a weave in this? Or is that his real hair? Yes.

I think it's part week. I think it's part of it. You don't think he could get that length on his own? Probably, you know. I mean, you know, of course, we all know, white guys are, you know, fucking, they're, I mean, is there one month away for being a member of poison? You know what I mean? Steve, because, you're like, Steve could fucking turn around. You give me one month untamed and I look like Ethan Hawk.

And you're like, you like, you, and Steve will be out there. They're like, but I enjoyed it. I think, I like a. villain who, to me, the best villains, let me tell you what the perfect villain is. General Zod, man, a steal. Yeah. Perfect villain. Not bad movie, not great movie, but perfect villain.

Perfect villain is a guy who is really doing something that not only does he feel, that he feels like is right, that he doesn't feel like isn't wrong, but doing something he feels like is absolutely right. Not Thanos, where you know that's wrong, you big fucking dummy. but in this situation where a guy has a higher calling and a higher power that he is dedicated to and you know that he'll stop at nothing, to me it makes him particularly sinister.

So I've liked what I've seen out of Arthur Harrow so far so far. I wonder, though, if he's actually the big bad, if there's a bigger bad that's going to come into the show. What are you guys? Because Ethan Hawke bases it off of the cult leader, David Koresh. Have you guys ever seen the TV show Waco? Yes. That shit was, creeped me out,

during the beginning of the... It was very creepy. Like, during the beginning of the pandemic, I was like, I shouldn't be watching this. The world is ending. But I do like that Ethan Hawk gets into his bag of the thing that you have to realize about cult leaders is that they're charismatic,

they're charming. And like, Ethan Hawk gives off this, like, sometimes you're like, oh, hold up. He's making points. He's making a few points. And I think he carries off that really, really well of being like, oh, I get why people would, like, follow him.

Because you also have to realize this is a world that has gone through Age of Ultron. This is a Europe where they've seen that happen. They've seen Thanos happen. Civil War. All of these things happen. So of course they're going to

want to follow this person who's like, I can make a better world. Because like every other month, they're dealing with the fucking apocalypse and superheroes destroying shit. I love how you liked Waco, but not fucking Gadda.

All right. that's tough. Jomey. That's Jomey. Come on, bro. That's nuts, bro. Wait, what? I was in seventh grade. I haven't seen Gattaca since September.

We got to do a Gattaca podcast. We're nuts. We got to go back to Gattaca. I'm serious. I love how you watch Waco. You like Venom let there be carnage, but you're not fucking with Gattaca. That fucking Gattaca?

The little seventh grade critic in me was like this mid. That's what it started probably. That's when all of your problematic shit started but you wasn't fucking a guy. I can't believe that. I liked Ethan Hawke. His, you know, you see him in the town square and, you know,

he sucks the life out of the old lady. They always have you kill an old lady or choke out of an old lady let you know like, hey, this is a bad guy. Bro, that's, that's very true. Yeah, you got it. You got to choke. You got to hurt an innocent, you know, lady to let us know you're evil.

But like Charles said, he was very, like, when he was talking to Stephen, At first he was like, hey, bro, it's so good, man. Just keep me to scare him. Get you on your way, bro. No problem. And it wasn't until he started, you know, doing his machinations and conscience. He was like, now you're good.

That he was like, all right, you got to handle this a little differently. Then seeing him back again in the museum, he was a little more threatening. He got into his face, you know, and he was like, hey, I also, you know, know a god lady, you know, and, you know, avatars are bad. By the way, love the avatar, the last airbender joke. Oh, I hate it. I hated that. That was great. The anime?

That was great. I was like, blue people, then all the anime? Come on. Because we know. I love that. Because Avatar. No way he didn't like that. No way he didn't like that, Charles.

Come on, Charles. I was like, guys, guys, guys. I know that, like, everybody in the MCU has to talk like Robert Downey Jr. But like, this joke is just like the lowest hanging branch. Like, he's like the anime. I mean, the NAMO. Man. Are we calling that an anime now?

That's a no confusing thing. People ask that question. Like that's why it's the joke It's like which avatar are you talking about Come on man He called it the anime and I was like I was just like all right You got one in there

Everything needs to be joky in the MCU Alright You like it come on I'm so glad you're back Charles I was dormant for a while I was like a grizzly bear for a winter Like all my hot tastes went in the cave I'm so I'm so glad you're back

I'll tell you one thing though I'll tell you one thing Okay. Be'n't be lucky I didn't know about this Gattaca thing. Jesus. Before we started to stop. Vin, you told me before the podcast, you're like, you can't fake the funk, Charles. You got to tire.

You got to be real. No, you're keeping it real. Look, by the way, it's goddamn it. You know, you guys, it's stuff. I'm liking Moonnight. We're liking Moon Night as a podcast. Charles is not feeling Moon Night as much. I'm telling you, I'm saying,

set this in the, I set this, and this is, we'll wrap up right here before we go into this whole separate argument about whether or not these MCU shows, the TV shows, are as vital as the movies, or whether or not they should be as vital as the movie, something that we discussed on the pod, on the group text. But there's going to be a spectrum of opinions on this stuff. It's okay. It's okay to have a spectrum of opinion on this stuff. I dug it. Steve dug it, Jomey dug it, Charles is still coming around to it. Okay. And look, there are other Disney Plus MCU shows coming out that don't look like they might not, might be my cup of tea.

I'm going to give them a chance. Yo, you really would the Miss Marvel be like, yeah, I don't know. I didn't say anything about Miss Marvel. Oh, you said. Van, you said some shit about Miss Marvel, all right? See, see how motherfuckers do? See how they do? I didn't say nothing.

You bring a private shit. shit. You're like a truck boy. Give me the fore. Give me the fore. This is early in the midnight boys history. See how motherfuckers do? This is early in the midnight boys history.

See how they do? I said nothing about no damn Miss Marvel yet, bro. And back channels, all right. I'm going to bring this up. Van is right or wrong. Early in the Midnight Boys' like history. I think the group text is a safe space to get my shit off. I'm like, I didn't like Vincent Dinoffrio and Daredevil.

He was overacting. And you like, you didn't like Vincent Dinoffrio. I'm like, no. And I'm like, all right, this is going to stay in the group chat. You told the motherfuckers on this shit. And that's where Coke Baby Chuck was born. Everybody's like, fuck this, dude. That was too much.

I had to bring that way. That's a good point, though. You did not. I did. So, basically, guys, I wasn't blown away about a Miss Marvel trailer. Like, I don't know if Miss Marvel is my cup of tea. I'll go ahead and wear it. I'm going to go into Miss Marvel with an open heart.

You guys, please don't call me weird names because it didn't look like my cup of tea. It has nothing to do. It didn't look like my cup of tea. That's all I'm saying. But I'm going to watch it and champion it and do the best I can to really enjoy the show. It didn't look like my cup of tea. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch.

Kelly Riley and Cole has a return, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait. is they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protected secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market.

Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited-time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian, and soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. All right, guys. We got a lot to do. And we're loving to do it.

So we had this conversation, and it was based around this show and an opinion that Charles had put out about how vital these TV shows are actually supposed to be. And we did not agree on this at all. So I want to give Jomey the opportunity to kind of get his, you know, putrid takeoff. Jamie, go ahead. Steve, can I get some kind of midnight sound effect? Because this is like a midnight mess. Let's do something called midnight mess.

This is not midnight mess. This is not midnight mess. I'm right. This is mess. No, I'm right. You're so wrong. I've never been more. You are so wrong.

You are. I have never been more right in my entire life. You're so wrong. I promise you. You're so wrong. I promise you. Okay. So look.

It fucked up my day, Jomey. Like your opinion fucked up my year. I'm so right. I'm so right. I was on a, Jomey, you're so wrong. No, I love you. I promise you.

Like, we're going to have this discussion. You're going to turn around to be like, wow, Jami. You make a great point. All right. Let's go. Let's get into a midnight mess. So I can tell you exactly what I said on the text thread. Charles came in.

Charles was like, man, I don't know if you're at this. And, you know, we started talking about the other Disney Plus shows. No, say what Charles said. I mean, I got to scroll back, you know. I said, I'll tell you verbatim. I said that the Disney Plus, the Marvel Disney Plus shows have a problem where they are not as vital as the movies. And Jomey responded, they don't have to be their action. Extra credit.

Check this out, right? So it's supplementary in the fact that they want us to care about, they want to give us characters to care about, right? Think about the first, even like the first five last year, right? Wanda Vision, Falcon and Winter Soldier, Loki, Loki, yeah, I mean, we knew other characters and what if and Hawkeye. All people we knew, you know what I'm saying? they gave us, you know, some new characters like Sylvie and like Kate Bishop. For the most part, oh, look, these people that we know we care about, right? And they give us, you know, six to nine hours of TV where we have to like spend more time with them and learn to care about them and be like, wow, this is what you're going through?

We, oh man, we have no idea, right? Check this out. At the end of, what happens at the end of end game, right? Before Cap goes back to, or before Cap goes, we see Caput and his baby grow together. What happens? What's the last thing that happens in that film? He gives Sam the Shield. He gives Sam the Shield, right?

We watch Falcon Win a Soldier. He gives the shield back, right? They do all this dance, him, da-da. And at the end of Falcon with a soldier, Falcon has the shield, right? He is Captain America. He is Captain America. And the next film, whatever is Avengers, Cap 4, whatever,

he's going to have that shield, right? If you completely did not watch Falcon and the Winter Soldier, would you know that he went through all that hullabaloo to get the shield? To like, oh, feeling down about it? No. You'd be like, oh, yeah, he gave him the shield at the end of the other hand of him. Of course he's kept. And you would move on.

You wouldn't even think about it. I'm not saying that, like, these characters aren't vital to the, to the, these stories aren't vital to the MCU as stuff. I'm not saying that these stories aren't vital in terms of the, like, what they bring to the MCU. It's just different. They're not vital in terms of plot and story, right? Like, oh, man, this crazy thing happened,

that shook up the entire MCU. That's not what the shows are here for at all, period. They hear for us to get to know these people and get to know these characters. So when they shuffle them back to the MCU, Right. The people who have Disney Plus, the people who have seen it, be like, oh, yeah. Oh, I know like this character's thing. I know deeper about it, right? You don't have to see it to get it because they'll either wave it away in like a line in the movie like they will and Dr. Strange with Weshew and be like, oh man, Westwood was crazy, right? Yeah, but it's okay. I didn't hear it for that.

We really saw it in the trailer, right? Like, it doesn't matter. Like he literally said, I don't care about Westview, right? It's more about us understanding, oh, man, Wanda has gone through a lot with their kids. With vision, like she's really been through the mud, like what it is. With her kids. But that's for us. But that's for us. We're kids. The MCU has already shown that she's lost her brother.

She's lost vision. What kids? I'm saying it's on a deeper level. It's supplementary. We're like, oh, man, she down bad. I think, I think I can see what Joe me's saying where it's like there can be a straight line from Cap giving Sam the Shield to him being Captain America and Falcon with a soldier not existing.

there can be a straight line to Wanda losing vision in endgame and her being really fucked up about it in multiverse of madness. She can save family. I get it. There's more. There's more. No, hold on, hold on.

Wrong. Like, the cap situation is a little different. The cap situation is a little different. Although Falcon jumping right, having a suit and all of that stuff like that, you want more story there. But it could be a little different because you could have. done that in Cap's movie in Falcons movie, right? They chose not to, though. So let's look at this. They chose not to do a movie where they had to establish him as Captain America. They chose

to do it in the show because for a couple of reasons. Number one, they want to drive people to Disney Plus. And number two, there was more story there. It's weird to say that there's story there, but the story isn't vital. If that's the case, then the whole MCU has a storytelling problem. because what you're saying is we're essentially watching fluff. So the reality is this, hold on wait. The reality is this is the reason why Wanda is fucked up now is because she lost vision, but also because of Wiccan and speed. At the end of Wanda Vision, you don't just get, think about Wanda,

think about what was introduced in Wanda Vision. The fact that she is a Scarlet Witch, right? She became the Scarlet Witch in Wanda Vision. She was not Scarlet Witch before Wanda Vision. When you talk about Loki, Loki is a sequel to Endgame. They set up Loki in Endgame. They set it up.

Loki takes the motherfucking thing and the Tesseract. He zaps himself away. He shows up in a show. They pushed you, they used the biggest movie in Marvel history to push you to a Disney Plus television show.

It would just be weird to do that if they didn't think what they were doing was setting up vital stakes. And also I'll say this, with the multiversal stuff that's going on, they don't have any choice. There are not enough movies in a release schedule in a year to be able to cover all of this stuff and keep all of these storyline threads together. See, it was different when we were in the Infinity saga and we were jumping from movie to movie and you can connect things with either a post-credit scene or you could drop in a little Thanos here,

pay off a little Thanos there and we would move on through this. It's different now. With the multiverse, the storytelling is much, much bigger. So these stories have to live on Disney Plus. They have to,

but they're definitely vital. They're definitely things, if that's the case, I just don't understand the logic of saying they're not vital. I'm not saying they're not vital. Well, you're acting like you're saying,

that's not important. I'm not saying. You're acting like it's content that we don't, that when you say it's extra credit, it's like saying that, okay, well, this is stuff that if you don't,

they don't have to really make it mean anything because you don't have to watch it. But you do have to watch it. I mean, it's just mathematics, right? Not more people go to the movies and have Disney Plus, right? So what?

So you can't have some crazy happen on Disney Plus and then some people back to movies, people are like, that's crazy. They have had crazy stuff happen on Disney Plus. And I'm telling you, it's marginal. But here's the thing, Jomey, I'm going to be real.

You can't carry Disney in Marvel's water like that. I'm going to be real. I'm not carrying. What are you talking about? Because I'm going to be real. The issue with calling it extra credit is you are saying that you as a consumer are willing to take lesser in quality. Because you can put on it. Because you can be like, oh, it's TV.

And if we've learned anything of TV in the past 20 years, 25 years, TV is as just a vital art form as movies. Some of the crazy. Jambi. Jambi, Jami, let me ask you a question. I hear him. If, Jamii, let me ask you a question. What's going on?

If Captain Carter is in the Illuminati in Multiverse of Madness, spoiler alert, fucking, hold on, spoiler alert, spoiler alert, it's a, fast forward 20, 30 seconds.

Spoiler alert, leak alert. If Captain Carter is in the Illuminaity in multiverse of madness, where does she come from? She comes from what if? Oh, question, though. I know, but what I'm saying is,

question though. What I'm saying is, why would they interest Why would they introduce a new character? Why would they introduce a new character, which they've done, by the way? Why would they introduce a new character in a piece of storytelling that wasn't vital? I think it's under the assumption, okay, for the Illuminati example, for anybody who has never ever seen Captain Carter,

for anybody who has never ever seen, let's just say a different Tony Stark, they might not be using that character a lot. All you need to know is, oh, that's a different version of Peggy Carter. That's a different version of Tony Stark. That's a different version of black. I'm telling you. That's what comics do. That's what all these other stories do.

The reality is, the, the, the, the, the, the, being different versions wouldn't make any sense without Loki. Like, like, them, like, then, hold on. The movie's the multiverse of madness. It's different versions of characters. So, right. So what you're, so by this point, by the point that you're making, then none of it's vital. Because if it's vital in a different way, it's vital in a different way. But, but look, so, like.

if the term variant, the fact that there can be variance conceptually comes from Loki. Conceptually, it comes from Loki. Didn't exist in the MCU prior to Loki. So what we're talking about, they're being variants, they're being different versions,

there being different things we can hop around. That whole thing was introduced in an MCU show to me the most consequential piece because I would tell you right now, Loki, even though you guys want to say, oh, Loki is an anomaly. I'm what I'm saying is Loki is more vital

than Shaq Shi. Loki is more vital. Loki is vital to no way home. Like you're saying under the context of like more things happened in Loki, which I can... No, but if you don't watch Loki, if you haven't watched Loki, there's going to be a bunch of things that you just don't

understand. If somebody starts talking about variants, like, when did variants happen? Right. Right. It's they redefine the MCU and the show. Exactly. I don't get the argument because, and something else. By the way, to you guys' point, Avengers Age of Ultron, right? Avengers Age of Ultron

or any of this different stuff, like a lot of these things, example, is anything in Captain Marvel vital? You're saying vital is as opposed to the grand scheme of the entirety of the MCU? Right. Not as much. They introduced the character, then the character

shows up in the end game. You get scrolls, secret invasion. Right, right. But what I'm telling you is that, to me, any of the movies, any of the things, you can make an argument that we could pull it out and you could still just make up for it in the next film. If you're saying that, the next film could just say, but really, the thing about the MCUs, they've never done that. They've took their time and injected a lot of meat between the fat so that we could have a better understanding of what it is that they were doing.

Like the characters. I mean, wrapping up, all I will say. says, Jomey, I find it wild to call a TV show extra credit because here's the thing, the MCU has given us a level of quality that made us fall in love with the MCU and the movies. They need to do that in the TV shows. We can't think of TV as a lesser medium than movies anymore. It's not the 1950s. It's not I Love Lucy.

Some of the best storytelling is done in TV shows. If they're going to make TV shows and want us to invest in it, it has to be as vital and as good as the movies. and you just can't have it happen on one show. You have to reach a level of quality that I'm like, oh, this is vital to the MCU. This is something that it's worth investing my time. All right, all right.

Hey, hey, that's enough. Oh, guys, that is a wrap. This coming Friday, the House of Our returns with their deep dive into the premiere of Moon Night, the House of R, the smartest podcast, the smartest fandom podcasts in the world. This Monday, the House of Midnight returns. We got to do it, guys.

We got to give you our look at Morbius, Morbius, the most anticipated movie since endgame. Steve, right for Steve. Let's make sure it's him. Not everything. Genitantly excited. So here's the thing. I would be honest about Morbius. The bus couldn't be worse.

The bus couldn't be worse. I don't think, I'm going to be honest with you. Outside of. maybe, I don't know that I've seen Buzz This Bad. Like, maybe Newmoons. Maybe Fantastic Four. Shout out to my boy, Josh Trank. It wasn't your fault, Josh.

But like, I don't know that I've seen Buzz this bad. This is the, this is maybe the worst bust. As a matter of fact, Midnight Mob, Midnight Riders, think about a movie if you've heard worse bus. I don't know if I've heard worse buzzed in this. I'm not sure. But we're going to do it and we're going to see what's real and what's not real. The Men Night Boys are going to be back next week

to give you our instant reactions on every episode of Moon Night. Producer credits. Our producer is Steve Alman Joy, the Cuddlyleless Act of his Bear. Jomi, a dinner on hashtag feed Jomi is on social media and additional production from Arjuna, Ram Gapal, who had a fantastic,

a fantastic Boba Fett cosplay. It's insane how good Arjuna's BobaFet cosplay was. I want to make sure people know that. I don't know if he's going to put it up when he ran up, but his bobo-a-fet cosplay

was fucking out of his world. All right, Charles, take us out. Guys, I went into hibernation. The people say I got too relaxed. But after this first episode of Moon Night,

Coke baby Chuck is fucking back. Dog, how the fuck can you not like Gattaca? Jesus quack. Gattaca, motherfucker. Come on, no,

I hate getting it. As a kid, I was like, this is a really dumb. Charles, bro, I'm not going to lie, Charles. I love you guys. I hope you guys know this. I love y'all.

Like, I love y'all. Charles, you make it hard sometimes. You're like, I did not think Van would be riding this hard for Gattaca. No. Bro, Gattaca the fucking shit, bro. I have respect to myself.

I'm going to be honest with you, bro. Gattaca the shit, bro. Gattaca, like, Gattaca, gotica crazy, bro. Think about Gattaca. Like, Godtica. Like, like, I'm slapping every time you say Gattaca. I've never, ever, ever heard someone say they don't like Gattaca.

I'm going to be real with you. It has like a 64% on Metacritic. What are you talking about? That's high on Metacritic. Metacritic is like the movie there's Sean Finnisys. Like, talking about Gattaca. Those are the top of the top critics on the Metacritic. Like, Rotten Tomatoes could literally be some dude that like builds a site in his crib

and reviews 10 movies a month. But the metacritic is the people who know. So look, the last thing I said about Gattaca. I remember, you know how I know? Gattaca passed the Van Latelyt and senior test. I put it on, I put it on for Pops. And Pops was like, huh, that boy didn't want to out swim his brother. He'll swimmer's brother.

That boy knew he could out swim his brother. See, son? Tell me right, when my dad would start teaching lessons on a movie, that's how you knew the movie had got him. I remember, I never forget. I never forget. My dad got, I told you guys this. My dad got so pissed off of the Musafar duel.

so pissed off the Anakin thought that he could jump over there. He was like, that young motherfucker, that old Jedi was experienced. He took up the whole mantle for old men. I can't believe you don't like Gattaca. It's fine. I didn't know this was going to be the take that really pissed y'all off. Nah, he also hates Dead Poet Society too. That's the Dattaca, man.

Dead Poet Society off the chain. Ethan Hawk. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting of cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt. Keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm families. Thank you.