The Ringer-Verse - ‘Moon Knight’ Episode 5 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: April 27, 2022

The Midnight Boys sit in the field of reeds and discuss the penultimate episode of this season of 'Moon Knight' (05:29). They weigh in on Jomi's bold prediction on this episode from last week (19:20), as well as how unfair Khonshu can be (37:55). They also unravel the complexities in Marc and Steven's relationship (51:04). Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey. We've got something special cooking on the prestige TV podcast. I'll be recapping one of my favorite shows, HBO's Barry, every Sunday night with the writer-director star of the show, The Great Bill Hater. We'll talk about the show's wild twists and turns, its special brand of dark comedy, and how it all came together. So on Sunday nights, immediately after a new episode airs, you can hear Bill and I break it all down on the Prestige TV pod. Subscribe on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. gut health? Take Activia's gut health challenge by enjoying two Activia yogurt today for two weeks and see if you feel a difference. With billions of probiotics and 20 years of scientific expertise, activia is one of the easiest and tastiest ways to start your gut health ritual. Try Activia today. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Welcome into the Ringgiverse. This is of course the Ringers' Texas

Podcast B for all things, fandom. We are Jelby, the explainer. A Diner on you've got questions. He's got answers. We are Steve, the cuddly lover bear. We are Coke Baby Chuck, 24-carried closer. And of course, we are old man than he of the ever-disappearing hairline. Also, he of the book, Fat Crazy and Tire, Tales of the Transformation.

Go buy it right now. But together, we are not. known as a midnight boys Oh! Programmed out

that Programming reminders! This Friday this Friday Dallas of R will be giving you their deep dyes into the fifth

episode of Moon Night and that might take nine hours. Now, Joe, you have the for you guys enviable

for us Moon Night Boys, it would be unenviable task of doing a deep dive into this episode, which was a doozy. Okay, next week, the Ringerverse will be giving you our thoughts on the Moon Night finale. But then next Friday, we're going to give you our instant reactions to Dr. Strange mom. Dr. Strange, the multiverse of madness, the weight is over.

It's here. We're fired up. Before we jump into anything, I want to get a quick temperature check. From 1 to 100, what is the temperature of excitement for Dr. Strange? Steve. I'm Sean Paul. It's the right temperature. It's like a 95.

I'm real excited. Jomey. I'm at a 97. I'm ready. I'm raring. Let's go. Charles. Cool spring day.

90. That's not spring day. That's a fun day. That's a hot summer day. Climate change. It's messed up. It's messed up our whole thing. 90 degrees.

I'm at a breeze. It's breezy. I'm at a 90. I'm at a breeze. It's 90 degrees. That's hot, dog. Like, did you know in Louisiana, a 90 degree because of the humidity.

We haven't even talked about that. That's a hot day. It's a hot day. It's hot. 90 degrees. A cool spring day. That's like 75, 80. I'm 100 degrees.

I can't wait. The Illuminati will see you now, Stephen. Okay. Wait, before we get into something, I have a public service announcement really quick. Guys, this is a special shout out and directive to all the midnight mob, all the midnight writers. After you listen to this pod, I want you to get it.

Get up. Get in your car. Go to your local Barnes & Noble. Go to the cash register. Put your hand in there. Say this is your money. This is Vans money. And I want you to get a copy of that crazy tired. If you can't go to Barnes & Noble, go back in time, go to Borders and cop that shit.

You don't have the money for it. All right? I want you to go to the library and say you want the library to pick up fucking five copies. I don't care. Wherever they sell books, go to your independent booksellers. Go pick up a copy. Do you guys know that the Midnight Boys and Charles specifically are mentioned in the book? Did you know that?

Woo, I didn't get there yet. Well, it's interesting, though, right? We're in the book, but I was looking at the back flap, right? And it says, I'm reading this verbatim. Van Leithen Jr. is the co-host of the Ringer's Higher Learning podcast and is best known as the former co-host. I was like, do Midnight Boys make the cut on the backflap? Publication date. Wait, wait, wait, wait,

publication date. Shit cuts deep. Wait, publication date. Publication date. When I, it, it all got fucked up. But there's the second edition coming out where that has not only that, but there are no acknowledgments in the book. So if you look at the book, there are no acknowledgments either.

So I let, I let some people, I delegated some things and they didn't get quite right. But you guys. Can I just say that when I went to Barnes and oh, I'm like, I need to search for for Van's book. And I'm like, where did they put this book? I went to memoirs. Then I went to the book. black people section where they put like

Marcus Garvey shit and it wasn't there and then I had to go to like the self-help and I was just like oh Charlemagne the gods god's here and then you were next right there you go. Self-help I really appreciate the love please we get a copy of the book so proud of you man. Thank you that's awesome man on today's show we're going to be giving

you our thoughts on Moon Knight's fifth episode we're going to stop fucking around let's get into it before we do this we have to make sure that you guys don't hear something that you came here to hear which is an instant reaction to something that we've I'll just watch. Steve, give me my spoiler warning.

We're getting ready to talk about you're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right, of course, in order to give you the need to know what you have to know on this particular episode, we have to get into

the Midnight Manifest. This is Chuck Wagon's station. Wait, before we get into it, I got to ask you guys, This bin-night manifest is like triple the length of the other ones because there's just so much that happens in this episode. What should we do? Like, I was writing this. I'm just like, I don't know what to do.

It's just going to be super long. Is there any way you could speed my voice up in post? I could. It's like an hour because this thing is fucking long. Whoa. This thing is fucking long. Let's not do that. All right.

How old are you, man? For real, dude. 42. That was so low-reaching. It wasn't even clever, man. I didn't say it. Charles said it. I didn't.

What was you talking to me? I'm trying to keep this. I'm listening. Every time I do that, you guys think I'm being fresh. What I'm doing is trying to keep this a PG-13 podcast, man. Because you guys be going off the Jomi, we know how you get down.

You know what? You're talking all of this shit to me. You don't get to talk shit until we revoked deep shadow protocol. You don't get to because you brought the wildest shit on the podcast. And it was from your real life. Until Deep Channel protocol is addressed on this podcast, I don't want to hear any rebukes from Jomi the Explanor at Dideron. Charles, I don't give a fuck if it takes three hours.

Do your manifest. All right, let's get into the midnight manifest. Guys, for this midnight manifest, we're starting with the asylum directed by Mohamedeep, written by Rebecca Kirsch and Matthew Orton. We start with Mac back at Putnam Medical Facility sitting in front of Harrow, who is telling him his mind is violently facilitating between sense and nonsense. Mark has told Dr. Harrow about being in a similar psych word with a hippopotamus.

Then Harrow says, quote, the struggling mind will often build places to seek shelter for different aspects of the self from our most traumatic events. It's called an organizing principle. Then, Harold offers that the hippo might be able to break down the barrier between the Stephen personality and the Mark personality. Mark then freaks out, is restrained, pumped with drugs, and when he wakes up, he's back with Stephen and Tarat, the Egyptian god of childbirth and fertility that has the face of a hippo. Tarret informs the duo that they're dead and in the realm of the duat, a.k.a. the Egyptian underworld.

Tarat says, quote, in afterlife, not the afterlife, you'd be surprised how many intersectional planes of untethered consciousness exists. And then she mentions the astral plane that has been seen in Black Panther. What further complicates matters is that the human brain can comprehend this realm, and that's why Mark and Stephen see it as a psych ward. Mark goes through a door and ends up on a boat sailing for Aru, the field of reeds. Taurret rips out Mark and Stephen's heart to weigh them on the scales of justice and the feathers of truth, see if the duel is balanced enough to spend life in peaceful eternity.

The scales aren't balanced, and Taurat sends them back to the psych world to find some. Mark thinks they should kill Tauret, but Stephen moves through their halls of memories. Eventually, Stephen finds a room filled with all the people Mark killed his moon night, and the scale starts slowing down once Mark takes responsibility for his actions. then a kid appears where Stephen chases into another room without Mark. Stephen then sees Mark's life as a child with a little brother named Roro. It's revealed that later Gators is something Mark would say to his mom. Roro would always draw a fish with one fin,

and Conchu's skeleton head is similar to the dead bird skeleton outside of a cave, Mark and Roroa frequent. Mark and Rorow go to this cave, but Roro is drowned when a storm appears out of nowhere. Stephen and Mark then appear at Rower's funeral, where Mark's mom blames her youngest son's death on child Mark. Stephen then sees a series of Mark's birthdays that are ruined by his mom's hatred of him. Before Stephen can go into childhood, Mark's room, grown-up Mark stops him. A teenage Mark finally leaves his home, even as his father begs him to stay.

Then, Mark and Steve end up at the sight of a massacre. Mark explains that he went AWOL, got to start from the military, and he went work for hire for his old CEO Bushman. The job they're looking at was for him to raid an Egyptian tomb. in the comics, Bushman is the arch-enemy of Moon Knight who appeared in 1980s, Moon Night Number One. Bushman is the one who killed all the witnesses. A blood-soaked Mark from the past is about to kill himself in Conchus' tomb when the God offers to save him. Then Stephen tells Mark that Conchu seems to have been manipulating him from the start.

Mark and Stephen then end up back on the ship where a tyrant sees Harrow sending souls down to the underworld before their time. Mark and Stephen convinced her to send them back to the land of the living to defeat Harrow and Ahmed. But first they must go through Osiris's portal. Mark and Stephen must balance the scales because Stephen thinks they need to go back to Mark's childhood bedroom, the one he's been in voiding this entire time. Finally, Mark freaks out. It's back with Dr. Harrow.

Harrow then asked Mark if he created Stephen to hide from all the horrible things. Mark has done or Stephen created Mark to punish the world for what his mom did to him. Stephen and Mark wash as a child Mark makes up the Stephen personality as a coping mechanism for his mother physically abusing him. Mark tells Stephen that his mother died two months ago, but Stephen can't seem to cope. with. The Stephen personality goes back to Harris office where through a series of events, he comes to grips with the fact that his mom is dead, and we travel back in time to Mark

going back home on the day of his mother Shiva. When it emotionally becomes too much for past Mark, he becomes Stephen and calls his mom as if she's still alive. Mark and Stephen make it back to the boat, but their hearts didn't bounce in time. Mark and Stephen must fight spirits trying to drag them down. But Stephen is taken overboard and becomes sand. With Stephen's death, the scales are finally balanced, and Mark, ends up in the fields of reads, guys that has been our very, very long, midnight manifest for the asylum.

Wow. I have to be honest with you. I tuned it out. It's fine. That's fine. I told you guys it was very, very long. It was very, very long. There was so much that happened in this episode.

I was just like, there is way too much plot for how much we are learning. Before we get to Jomey, Steve, first of all, Do you have Jomi's prediction on, on Cute Up? Do you have it on tape? Okay, cool. Before we get to Jomey, because Jomey made a bold prediction last week.

Charles, let's start off with you and me as far as the answer reactions are concerned. What did you think of this episode? I think this episode addressed a lot of my concerns. I think emotionally what's happening in this episode is the stuff that I've been wondering for a really, really long time. What is the purpose of having this superhero

who's dealing with mental illness? What is the thing under it? What is the emotional underpinnings of these personalities? And I think what we get in this episode is so much information. We finally find out that Mark 8, like in the comics, is Jewish. We find out about his family. We find out, we see what happens with Conchu, and that, yes, it seems that Conchu has been manipulating him. And then we kind of get these series of very, very traumatic events that,

clues you in to why he had to create Stephen. So in terms of that, I think a lot of what I had been asking for was addressed. But as I left the episode, I was just like, there are so many interesting nuggets in this episode that are fit within the framework of like 45 to 50 minutes that I was just like, damn, I kind of wish this episode had more room to breathe because it had so many interesting things going on with it. but they happened so quickly, I was just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

I need more of that. I need to understand that. What about you, then? It was a good episode, but I don't think I enjoyed it. It was just a lot. You know what I mean? This is the most emotionally weighty

MCU episode ever to me, and probably one of the most emotionally weighted wady MCU offerings ever. I can't think of anything that was more grueling than this. And I'll tell you why. So when we're talking about, all these characters are make-believe, right?

But it didn't feel like it in this episode to me. You know what I mean? It's like, so watching Scarlet Witch Grieve Vision is very tough seeing her go through this. But Vision is a robot. You know?

All right. Let's not do that. Come on, man. No. No. Let me keep it all the way real. You know, it's like, there is something to where I'm like, there's something a little weird about Wanda.

Oh my God. Come on. Come on, now, that's the holy. If Vision wasn't a person, he wouldn't have been able to lift Neil on here. So, like, what's that? Like, but I'm just, I'm not saying that you guys are wrong, but what I'm saying is because Vision is,

an artificial life form. There's something that that would stop me from like having the same. I felt that I feel for her. Watching someone be penalized all their life because they were party to or a part of or their win or being held responsible for

the death of their younger brother. That's some Dayline NBC shit. You know what I'm saying? Like that, let's some Netflix fucking 12-parter type shit. That's some document, that's some real world. This is an HBO movie

you're watching it at 830. It really kind of took me out of Moonnight being a fantastical sort of MCU offering and more about a grounded drama about trauma and about what happens to people. And they kept coming, when that whole thread started to happen,

the show became a little bit different to me. And it got to a point to by the end of it, I was wrapped up in my emotions, but I don't know if I'll ever watch that episode of television again. So, I mean, here's the thing. I'm going to be real. Storytelling-wise,

I think the reason to me emotionally, I cared more when Wanda's kids are taken away, when vision is taken away, when all of these emotional things, whether it's like Black Panther's father or whatever, is because you get set up. You get why this person is important to that. You know what I mean?

and the thing that I think tripped me up about this episode is that I inherently knew it was emotional because I knew what was happening to Mark and Stephen or what was happening to Mark is emotional. The thing that was hard for me to connect with is that we just got introduced to his brother. We just got introduced to his mom. We just got introduced to his father.

And I was just like, I actually wanted to see more of them. I didn't want to see that his mom was like a loving mom one second and then like a very, very tormented person in the next. I kind of wanted to see that more gradually. First of all, I'll tell you something real quick. All right. You're Dr. Michael Morbius. You're a living vampire.

No soul, no heartbeat, cold. Brah. So we see Black Panther, right? The first time we see Tachaca, Tchaca's out there. He's talking to the U.N. or whatever. They ace my man out. Yeah.

It's sad, bro. It's very sad. The first thing we see Tchaca in, he dies. He has one chance. One chance to say I'm, he says, I'm very happy, bye-bye. And then after that, not happy no more, Chaka out of here. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not saying that we, I'm saying we really get to know Tachaca now.

Black Panther a little bit more we talk to Chica to the first time we see him in that one, he's given the five figures of death to Sterling K. Brown in Oakland. Stap his brother in the chest. Yes, but what I would say is we get an entire movie where we're kind of getting to see how large his legacy looms. where it's like with this in Moonnight, we're just like his brother, his mom and his dad, we only kind of get snapshots of that.

And then they're like, all right, they're dead now. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, what if I told you, though,

what if I told you just a story? Forget about the people that we know, about a mother who blamed her one son for her other son's death. That is some, by the way, that is something that has happened and does happen in these situations like that.

Like where I've seen it, I saw a documentary where there was a mom who was with one of her sons and had left to go buy something and one of the sons got kidnapped. And then she couldn't, she blamed herself at first. Then she blamed the other son for not for losing track of his brother. And so like, I've seen all of this stuff. It never happens to girls, by the way. They know how to take care of each other. Like, get you a good woman. But in this situation, I'm looking at this and I am swept up in the drama of it.

Okay, before we go off on a tangent, just to put on that one aspect of it, because there's so many things that happen to this episode, I want to address Jomi real quick. Better yet, I want Jomi to address you guys. Last week, Jomi made a bold prediction about this episode of MCU television. And in his reaction, I want him to, I want to give Jomey a chance to prove why. he was right. This is Jomi's prediction. The next episode is going to be I'm going to call my side. It's going to be one of the best episodes of MCU television that we

have seen so far. Okay. Jomi. Yes, sir. Do you think you were right? Yes. I do think I was right. Of course Jomey thinks he's great. I do think I was right. Right. Hugh, the Jomi is right theme song.

I'm wrong sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes. But in this case, I think I'm right. When I, last week, I thought that what we were going to see was an Oscar Isaac masterclass. And we did. He was incredible this week. What do you mean? What's that look, Van?

No, he was incredible, but that's not all you said. It wasn't just about Oscar. Can I continue? Can I continue? Hey, baby. Hey, baby. Do you think, baby. He was in his bag this week, going from Stephen to Mark, maybe a little bit of Jake.

I don't know. The scene where they're in the hallway and Tarray has told him, like, you guys got to figure it out. Like, we're about to hit the gates. You need, there's one more thing you guys got to figure out. And he's in the hallway. And Stephen's like, dude, you got to show me what's in that room. for Layla, for the world right now. And Stephen is just like, you know,

trying to plead, beg his way. And Mark is like, no, you can't make me nine. That's the same person, man. And we're getting, and throughout the episode, right, you see it. But in that scene, just to see them go back and forth, you forget that you're not watching like two actors trading barbs. you're seeing one man do it. And then to, hold on, and then to go back outside,

outside his mom's house, right? And it's, it's, I thought Oscar Isaac was incredible. Now, the best penultimate episode of the MCU series. Now, let's, let's think about this, right? We have the Wanda Vision episode, right? Where it's basically the same thing. We have the Falcon and the Winter Soldier boat episode where they, they fix the boat

they conversate, right? We have the Loki episode with where they're in the void or whatever they called it. Yeah. And then we're not even

going to think about what if. And then we have Hawkeye this episode where we see the kingpin on the phone. Green shot of

80P. That's up there. In fact, I would say it's right behind the Loki episode. Wait, wait, wait, we went on the whole thing. You're supposed to be defending your choice, Jomey?

Wait, did I say behind? Wait, hold on, hold on. Where? No, no, no, no, no. Did I say behind? I misspoke. You just did, Joanie. I misspoke.

I misspoke. No, no, no, no. I misspoke. Keep that in there, Steve. I can't know. Steve edit this out. No, no. No, no.

I missed. Why will we edit it? Post credits. Post credits. No. I misspoke. Wait, wait, wait. I misspoke.

It is ahead of the Loki episode. But Jami. So I think it's ahead of those episodes. But Jami, so you're saying, so you're saying just so we know. Yeah. It's out of all those episodes. And that this is the best pen episodes.

Steve, you got to do it. You have to. Come on. It's the best. It's not. It is not better than the Loki Penelston. It's not. No, it's not.

I think it is. I think it's, I think it's, because here's the thing, right? We got to meet, we got to meet, we got to meet classic Loki in that episode, right? So him, you know, sacrificing himself using the magic to save Loki and Sylvie. It's great, right? It's fantastic, like, okay, wow, we're seeing, like, somebody who we think we know, follow through these movies and, like, in a different vein, like, do something that we've

never seen a Loki do, which is sacrifice himself, right? That is good, that is emotional. That's pretty cool. You guys just talked about it. for like 10 minutes, why this episode was some of the most hauntings of the most impressive. But that's what I'm saying.

You said, you didn't say the most emotional episode. If you said it was one of the most emotional penultimate episodes, I would agree with you. John, I'm trying to say, but I am trying to say,

is that because looking at Stephen and Mark's history together, seeing where Stephen comes from, seeing what made Mark, how he became Moon Knight, all that emotion, all that backstory, everything that we saw this week, how it all wraps everything up.

You understand about Stephen's mom. You understand about Mark's mom. You understand where they came from. That was great television, right? Was it, I don't, well, frankly, I don't really rate the other penultimate episodes that high, to be honest with you. Steve, yes, man.

I need you to come in right now and be the voice of, reason. Okay. I'm not asking you to take sides. Okay. I'm going to ask you one simple question. I want a yes or no. You got it. Steve, please do not attempt to pettifog. No. Or in any way. You will get a yes or no answer for me. This is a congressional hearing. Is this the best penultimate episode in the history of the Disney MCU Plus shows? No. It's not. Jomey. I'm right. I'm right. I think the people, the people are sorry. with me. I will side with Joby to a large degree in saying that a lot of this episode brought

probably the biggest emotional heft that the MCU in total has given. I just said, I totally agree. I agree with that. And that alone, it deserves its flowers because it's really something that's special that I didn't even know the MCU could do. And I think for that, it deserves a lot of credit. It, for me personally, it doesn't match up. quite as much to the Loki penultimate finale or penultimate episode. But it was really something special and something that the MCU has never done before. All right, Charles, let's talk about Mark and Stephen's journey right here. How did you like the parallels between author's examination and the journey they were on in the realm of duet?

So duet, is it duet, duet, duet, duet. So it seems we keep coming back to the examination room. room, right? And we keep coming back to and by the way, I like the interplay between Mark and Stephen in this episode. This seemed like the episode where they really became brothers,

to be honest with you, which made just the ending of it that much harder. What did you think about the parallels between what was going on in Harold's examination and, you know, we were just talking about the journey in the realm of duet. Yeah, I think this episode did a very, very smart job of showing so many versions of kind of duality. You had, you had Mark and Stephen, you know, one dressed in black, the other dressed in white.

You start seeing through this that, like, this is not only they're dead, they're in the afterlife, but they're going through their memories of life. So you have life and death. even something as simple as when when young Mark is making the his personality of Stephen part of me was just like oh it's so smart that

one of the last times you hear his brother Roro Spick they're playing this game of trying to be this explorer from this movie they love and then Stephen is quite literally him trying to recreate a version of his brother that's who Stephen like that

brotherhood is kind of he's creating a row row, a memory of when their mom was was more loving and nicer to them. And I thought that this episode did a very, very good job of kind of shown the yin and yang of kind of not only marking Stephen, but of this entire kind of world. What about you? So for me, I thought I thought it did a great job of connecting the experience because at the end of this episode, it happens to Mark again. he loses a younger brother again. Stephen is Mark's younger brother. He created him in order to,

to deal with the trauma that he was going through, but still he knows things. He's been around longer. And as this episode goes on, you see Mark be more protective of Stephen, probably much in the same way he was protective of Roro. And he fails again at the end of it to save this version of himself

that shares the same environment that he has that's younger than him. And watching him come to terms with the fact that he's more invested into Stephen that he thought of that he was and that he loves Stephen, because we've only really seen, besides the last episode

where he turns over and gives Stephen some agency to use his expertise. Mostly what we've seen is contempt. Hey, you're not ready for this. You can't do this. Get out of the body. I need the body. We haven't really seen Stephen

have any Mark have any emotional use for Stephen. The only thing we've seen is him use him as a utility. And in this one, it's obvious that he needs him. So I think the journey in both the examination room and in the afterlife realm was about them building a bond with one another and about Stephen understanding why he's there

and about Mark helping him contextualize that. and to use two different narratives to kind of like join those characters was fantastic. And it was, and the way that they did it, it was surrealism at its best. The best use of surrealism, the best use of surrealism in anything that Marvel has ever done. I mean, I also think what's interesting to me is that the emotional thing about Steve, and a character that I've had trouble wrapping my mind around, but something I appreciate about this episode, is that Stephen has to come to terms with the fact that he is, he was created as kind of like a figment of Mark's imagination,

that everything that he's experienced in the world isn't necessarily as real as he thinks it is. And that's a heartbreaking moment on two levels. When he sees what ended up happening with a young Mark and his mom, he has to realize like this version of my mom is not the one that was, who she was in reality, A, B, that she's no longer here with us, and then C, that does any of that matter anymore? Maybe it does or doesn't because I am just, I am the second personality. I am not the main one. And that's, that shows, that puts the whole kind of, uh, show in a different light, because we're introduced to Stephen first. And now us's viewers are like, oh,

Stephen was just a figment. He wasn't the real personality. And that's such a difficult thing for Stephen to come to grips with. And it was a really, really heartbreaking. A lot of this has to do with the tour de force that we're getting from. Oh, I.

But Oscar Isaac, like Jomey said before, one thing I agree with Jomey, is that Oscar Isaac is in his absolute back. So I thought about this to myself. What are some of the best performances that I've seen on screen in the MCU? little list. Number one, Robert Downey Jr. in the original Iron Man. Number two, Robert Downey Jr. in Avengers endgame, which I actually thought was a strong enough, like, performance

to garner an Oscar nomination. I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. That's my God. Yeah. That's rough. Come on. No, I'm not there yet. Wow. I think that's more of like an honorary, like he served his time. No, I think he should have got, I think he should have nominated for asking. I got nothing for you. Liar. I love that whole little thing.

What's the mean? Can't, I can't, what you mean? Well, how did I fight him? He's unbeatable. Like that whole, I thought he was fantastic in the movie. And I thought, I thought, I thought he deserved an Oscar nomination, like, for, for that film. Okay. And then, I personally thought Chris Hems were.

in Thor Rackner Rock was fantastic. I thought he was perfect. And those are my ones. And if I'm being honest with you, I'm sure there's a couple of that I'm forgetting as I was making this list this morning. But being honest with you,

Oscar Isaac blows all of those out of water. I mean, of course, you have Elizabeth Olson in Wanda Vision. She was right there. She held it down and showed crazy range in Wanda Vision. But really, she would probably be second to him.

I think he blew. I think he's blowing it out of the water. What do you do this? What's wild about that, Charles? And I want to hear everybody else's too, by the way. I think in terms of like, 10 years later of like performances where we're just like, oh,

this is like an iconic performance. I don't think that this quite matches up to what Chadwick did as Black Panther. Just in terms of like the emotion of that movie. So I don't. You know what? I miss one from that movie. I'm sorry.

It's not Chadwick. It's actually kill. I was going to say, my next one was going to be killmonger. I think both of those performances, you could pick various parts of those movies. And I think what they are doing is very, just kind of like out of this world. I think nothing in this beats Tom Holland's disappearing from Infinity War, just in terms of like what it did to me in the thing. I'm just going to be real.

I'm going to be real. Here's the thing. Is this performance, I'm not saying this performance is bad. I think this performance is more showy. It's a tour to force in terms of like he gets longer to do the thing. Because like it's built around his performance. In terms of like iconic status of what like I will remember years and years later, I can remember where I was during like Black Panther, you know,

when Chadwick sees his father, when like Kilmonger's about to die, when Peter is like disappearing. Like those to me like I can remember where I was and I'll never forget. this like I'm just like it's cool it's like a tour to force I don't think this is like Oscar Isaac's like best thing he's ever done it's interesting it's cool like it's enjoyable

it's like popcorn I like it Jomey please I mean it's it's interesting that you compare moments to like the whole this whole episode right it'd be like comparing like Derek Fisher's one you know point four shot to like a season of LeBron James

like yeah it's a great moment for sure like no one's disagree with you, but like we're talking about this hour of television. All right, well, the question was in the script, was this the best single performance the MCU turned out with Oscar Isaac in this episode? So is that just Oscar Isaac's performance or all MCU? Okay, since I wrote the question, I'll amend it slightly just to add a bit of specificity. Do you think that this is the most dramatic and emotionally impactful performance that the MCU has given us?

I think it's the most dramatic, but really I think that what it's in competition with is probably Elizabeth Olson in Oanda Vision and then potentially Tom Hilsston and the Loki television show and then Robert Donnie Jr. to me in endgame. I think performances, I think that Kilmonger is one of the best movie performances,

and I think Kilmonger overshadowed Chadwick's performance as Black Panther. Chatwick was amazing as Black Panther, fantastic as Black Panther, but I could make an argument that he had less to do in the movie than Kill Martin. You're always trying to get this takeoff. I'm not trying to get the takeoff from saying he had less to do in the movie. And by the way, being the A number one solid, 24-carat gold performer that he is, he did not try in any way

to take anything from Eric Kilmonger's performance, from Michael B. Jordan's performance, he understood it was his job to play the hero and his job to be the steady, even kill prince. And that's what he did for the entire movie. You know what I mean? So, like, to me, I just think that when you have somebody

that's dealing with as many things in this role right here as Oscar Isaac is dealing with, just every scene is this driving, cutting, piercing, weight. And I think that he just, I think he nailed that, Charles, and I think, you know, I- You guys are acting, like I said, he didn't nail it. You were just comparing it to history. And I think the other thing, too, is, like, what hasn't happened yet is we need time. A lot of times as a critic, it's like what you feel in the moment.

And it's just like, yo, in years, are people going to be clipping this performance out and being like, yo, remember when you saw this, remember when you saw episode five of Moon Night? I don't know if that'll be happening. A lot of time, these performances, you have, like, do they stand the age of the tested time? Because a lot of these like MCU ones don't. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors.

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So when I was in Greek mythology class back in the day, which was one of my favorite classes, I learned something. I learned that Zeus is a freak. He was getting it in. As 80 different animals. Zeus is a freak. First of all,

was weird times back there in Greece because Zeus want to get to a woman, he turns into a bird. You know? Yeah. I don't know, you turn to a swan,

and that gets the girl going, and then you pop in, oh, Zeusurific with the thunderbolts or whatever. Zeusorific? Yeah. So, so. Wow.

And after I looked at it, you know, thinking to myself, Zeus is toxic. Zeus got like bastard children running around everywhere that he sometimes helps. Demi-God, yep. That he sometimes helps and that he sometimes let's figure it out for themselves.

Zeus is kind of a dick. I'll tell you one thing. As far as gods go, Zeus and Oden, who is a space imperialist, a conqueror. Colonizer. They colonize it. They can't hold a candle

to Conchu, Conchu's a fucking asshole. Like, there's nothing about Conchew in this entire show in all the episodes that we've seen,

that is positive. And the scene in this episode where Mark is dying and Conchu is working him mentally. It's like nuts. I'm watching this like,

bruh, would somebody stab Conchu in this shit? like working him as he's dying like Kanshu is a real problem. My question coming out of that scene because Steve sees it clearly that Kanchu is manipulating Mark.

When did that manipulation start? Like did it start when... There's some evidence that it started doing when he was a kid. Or when it seemed like they were hinting at the fact that like when Stephen's walking to the cave and he sees the bird skeleton, that kind of looks like Conchu

was this kind of a fate thing where Conchua has been working him since childhood to basically put him into a place where that when he finally meets Mark, he's at a point where he's just like, all right, you're my avatar now. You're broken down, you're weak enough where I can take advantage of you

and use you to my end. I honestly could see that in like two different ways because like you see when he's like walking into the cave when his brother's about to die, like you see like the little bro. bird skeleton that looks like Conchu. So like it's implied that he's like watching him the whole time.

Watching like you could say that that might be some undue influence but that also could just be that like you know he's been kind of ever watching and ever present in his life just to see what might happen. Because like the idea of God's being like these uninterested things that like only want to like play with humans when they see

interesting aspects of them. I think that's what makes Conchu so like messed up and interesting because only because he's such a fractured and broken person is why he wants to mess with them in the first place. And there's this idea of gods who can't stay out of humanity's business. There's a difference in lording over humanity and sort of being a part and being an overseer of what humanity should do and shouldn't do. And being a God that wants to be active and very active in what's going on between men.

and it seems like Contchu needs his vengeance, and he can't worry about whether or not people love him or respect what he means enough to go and get his vengeance because Conschua will want it to. He needs a spirit of vengeance. That's what he chose for Mark. I wanted to get into the God stuff before we move on to some of the more deeper stuff,

where I thought it was very, very interesting that A, the Thor trailer drops before this episode. In this trailer, they basically hint at that all of these gods are existing, not in similar planes, but Black Panther ancestral realm is different than the fields of reeds. And it seems that they're saying, depending upon your religion, depending upon what you believe and what your mind can handle, when somebody in the Marvel universe dies, they go to one of these realms,

which I thought was very, very interesting because it plays into some of the stuff that they've been talking about with Thor, where is just like how much is Thora God and how much is he an alien and how much is this just a different dimension, a different realm? And I was just like, oh, this is kind of like one of the most fascinating things about the episode,

which I wish they would have spent if just a little bit more of time on. Well, I mean, I think the way to do that when you're talking about gods and religion is that so there's a, there's a tenet of monotheistic Western religions that one of them is right and the rest of them lead to hell, fire, indemnation. Yeah.

So when you're dealing with, when you're taking, when you have lore that comes from this many different places from all over the world, I guess the way you do this is you say, hey, everyone's right. Your interpretation and the energy put out is what you're going to get back in the afterlife. And that way you're avoiding being in the situation. Well, yes, Thor is a real God and then Conscious is not a real God or then Zeus is a real God and then Thor isn't a real God. You know, you have different ways to explain what it is that we perceive as what godliness or what. ultimate power is in Marvel. Because remember, in the Marvel comics, there is a supreme being

over the entire universe. Yeah. And so being that that's the case, there are all of these different pockets where humanity and different races and different species have to live. And however they perceive, whatever they perceive to be their gods are, I guess, or what their gods actually are.

That's kind of true the way, you know, the way we live on Earth right now, We worship most things. I mean, we worship, there are a lot of people listen to this who worship these characters more than they worship any God that they might think that they serve. So, you know, a lot of people,

if they were going to choose their heaven or go to their ideal heaven, it would fucking be Avengers' mansion. People would be, if people would be, like, they would want to be moving stuff around and doing crazy shit. So it's just an interesting concept that these planes are tethered to one another.

Jomster, your thoughts on Mark's mom as a character. There is one thing that Charles said that I kind of agreed with is that we see Mark's mom and she's making stuff for a barbecue. And in the very next scene, she's mommy fucking dearest. She has completely flipped, granted something incredibly traumatic happened, she has completely flipped and lost the ability to mother forever. Your thoughts. I thought it was tough.

I thought it was really hard to watch. You know, like you said, we see her making the barbecue and little, little Mark goes over to his brother, which, by the way, who is drawing a one fend goldfish. Yeah. It's like the goal piece that Stephen has later on. Right. And they go, they die, or bro dies. And then his mom is just like, like you said, like a different individual. And I think part of it is like she's going through her own thing too. You know, and that Mark and his father just did not understand. Right. And she will see it later in the episode, but she takes it out on him.

she blames Mark squarely for what happened, you know, which is wildly unfair and just, you know, horrible parenting all around, to be clear, but for her to sit back and just like do Mark like that for years, you know, for years, you can't help but look at Mark, you know, in a different light afterwards. Look at the character and be like, okay, so like, this is why you are, why you are. This is what made you, you know. As much crap as we've given Mark for being like a terrible human being the last four episodes, you got to look back and be like, ah, you, you was really going through it.

You know, that doesn't excuse your behavior, but we understand, you know, where the disconnect has come from. How do we feel about the Layla erasure in this episode? I don't know if it's erasure. I just think that, like, there are a lot. lot of spinning spinning plates. And it's like they're introducing us

to Mark's entire family. Then we have multiple realms. We have Egypt. We have the psych ward. We have in his mind. We have his memories.

Like there becomes a certain point where I think I said it earlier in the episode. I like this episode, but I was just kind of like, there is so much going on. If you added the Layla to it, I think that might be the one thing

that just like totally kind of derails everything just because they barely have time from Mark and Stephen. The other word, like, Steve or Stephen, if the word out of his mouth wasn't my mum, it was Layla. Like, that was what he was worried about. So, you know, they kept

her on our minds. You know, blood and they're like, hey, man, we got to go protect her and make sure that's okay. Can I pitch you guys on something? Before you say that, there's one performance that we've, that we were talking about MCU performances that I feel like we left out. Ethan Hawk is Arthur Harrow.

He's great. He's fantastic. He's good. It was really good. Especially in this one. Really good, Chuck Wagon. Yeah. Yeah. Don't you, yeah, me, motherfucker?

What do you guys? I know you got something spicy to say about it. Yeah, address it. Let's address something. This is the thing that, like, in fandom I'm really, really tired of. And, like, it happens all the time. If you're not, like, this is the best thing ever, people are, like, stopping a fucking hater.

And I'm just like, can't edit it's that good? Like, if I say it's good, like, what's everything? just have to be the best shit ever. Charles, let me ask you a question. Before we move on, what is the best thing ever? Oh, guys, all right. Nobody's going to give a fuck about this. But Woo!

One Piece, episode 1015. Oh, my God. Beautiful. Best thing ever. Come on. Nobody's going to give a fuck about this. I don't know. It's the fact that you had that answer so fast.

I had it locked and loaded. He was like, I was ready. I knew it was going to be some off-the-wall shit. I know who's going to be some off-the-wall shit. I'm telling you. I knew I asked Charles that it was going to be some really off-the-wall shit. Afro-Semiris Season 2 or some crazy shit.

I'm not dead. Wait, but I wanted to go back to something actually, like, I think that's very, very important. And I think that this is probably what the show tried to do, even maybe if it, if it was a little wonky, is that I was thinking the whole time, why Taurat? Why did you go with the guy?

of childbirth and the goddess of motherhood. And I was thinking that I think that's the show trying to give us kind of like this symbolic representation of how messed up Stephen Mark's relationship with their own mom is. And that it is a mother figure trying to kind of birth them into this new plane and this new layer of life or death. However you see it.

And I think the thing that while that kind of is smart and you're like, oh shit, symbolism, metaphors, great. I think the thing that I was like, that scratched me a little bit wrong is that we see five seconds of Mark's mom being a really, really, really good mother and then we kind

of jump to physical abuse and I think that it's meant to be jarring, but I think the reason that Stephen loves his mom so much, the reason that Mark goes back to the Shiva is because she was a good mom once upon a time.

And that as a viewer, I just wanted a few more beats in terms of like how how traumatic was this for Mark losing his mother. Like you needed a couple more beats of normalcy

before this big tragedy strikes because you literally go from her kind of being this heroic figure to this demon and I think humans are a little bit more nuanced than that. Am I being too critical of that moment? No, look, you keep saying we need more beats

and too many beats turns your P-Read. You, Jomi, Mark and Steve's relationship as exposed in this episode, your thoughts? I thought it was great. I thought it was really fantastic to see them, like, face to face, not through mirrors, not through reflections, but to see them, like, touch each other,

look at each other in the eyes and try and hold each other accountable. Yeah, it's good. So the scales get balanced later on in this episode After Stephen dies, falls off the boat You get a fight with some sand people, Taurus right there, you know. Tuscan Raiders, not sand people.

Excuse me, ooh. Check your privilege, van. So Steve dies, Stephen, no, excuse me, Stephen, Stephen dies, the scales balance. And he gets led to the field of Reefs. Number one, is it's the last we've seen of Stephen. Number two, if it was the last we saw of Stephen, how would you feel about it?

I don't think that this is the last we've seen of Stephen. I think that this show is going to be a lot about Mark not demonizing Stephen and maybe Jake or whoever other personalities are there, but coming to terms with his mental illness and realizing that, the thing that Stephen did do for Mark is that Stephen saves him from a lot of these traumatic experiences until he's ready to deal with them. The sacrifice, if you think about it, is not Stephen fighting physically to save Mark. The actual sacrifice is the Stephen personality is the one who finally pushes him to open that door from his childhood. And he's the actual

one who would be like, to bounce the scales, we need to go here. And I think that like the reason that I'm like, I don't think Stephen's gone is because this whole show seems to be building up to this point of like the best version of Mark is him come to terms with his mental illness and not demonizing parts of it, but realizing that it's all part of himself. How do you guys think Stephen is going to come back? Seems like a question for the writers.

Well, I think that like what I could see in a finale here is Mark kind of beginning to, Whether or not this is like a, you know, him escaping the afterlife or whatever. But like I think it comes to, like Charles said, like an acceptance of all aspects of him. That acknowledging the good in that Stephen brings to him and his life. And kind of embracing all other aspects. And it's it leads into what we could possibly see for him down the road. I don't know how, I don't know how them old Duke boys are going to get out of this one.

But it's a, it's a certain challenge for sure. Interesting Dukes of Hazard reference. You like that show, huh Steve? You enjoyed it General Lee, don't you? Hell, you. Wow.

Why would you? You set yourself up for that. I did, I did. Did you have a General Lee maybe on a car or on a t-shirt or something like that? Yeah, maybe you did. Is that a good flag behind you, Stephen?

Oh, Stevie. Steve. Steve, Steve, enjoy that show, huh? It was Daisy, wasn't it? you freak. That's why you watch that show. You're way too young.

You're way. You watch that show, Van. Come on. Like, by the way, I used to love the Dukes of Hazard. This is a good old boy. Come on.

Never leading to no hall. We all. Ridgible. Riddle with the laws. Can you, can someone please play Old Man, Van right now? What? And Steve.

Steve. Steve. Ancient. Van is old. Because Steve is like 40 like you. Joe Man is only 10. Steve, like the Deuce Hazard is a great show.

Great show. And Steve watched the David Deuce of Hazard. Jesus Christ. All right. To answer fans question, though, originally, we saw them throw a whole bunch of souls down there. They did. Because apparently Armit's, you know, thing has already started.

And so maybe, you know, when the souls come back, Stevens comes back with them. Stevens comes back with them. So obviously we have to bring Conchu has to come back because if Conchu doesn't come back, the Moon Knight suit doesn't, the Moon Night Suit, the Sun Avatar can't come back, and then Steve can't get, Mark can get out where he was. Of course, we know that Spectre has died before in the comic books. Oh, by the way, I will say something that I haven't mentioned about this episode that I really appreciate it,

was them leaning into Spector's heritage a little bit more, talking about Sittink Shiva, something I did with a dear friend of mine, Lawrence Bender, not too long ago after he lost his father. It was an amazing cultural experience. So using that as something that's in an emotional drive with episode was really good. I also wanted to come back and piggyback on a point made about Stephen going to see to his mom, Shiva. When somebody's your mom, they're always your mom. Yeah. When somebody's your mom, they're always your mom.

You keep pulling at your parents. Like you see yourselves in them. You keep pulling at them, pulling at them, pulling at them until you run out of threat. like for him, he's sitting there looking at his mom, he's hoping to see her in some sort of way. And the fact that he can't bring himself to go in, I think was the telltale situation.

He's doing everything. He's got his yarmulka on. He's dressed properly. He just can't take that extra step because she failed to be able to take that extra step to love him in spite of the terrible thing that happened. So I thought that was... Can we talk about the father?

Because we've talked about Mark's mom a lot. But the father figure kind of had me split because he was caught in a weird position where he's the parent that obviously, like, was kind of the support when the mom was going through everything that she was going through her own mental, a mental and emotional battle. But when, like, the father is begging his teenage son to stay, I'm just like, dog, like, he's getting abused. Like, at a certain point, like, my heart breaks because I'm just like, you didn't stop that. Of course he wants to leave.

Like this is, this is hurting him. I was just kind of like, this is wild. You had problems with him, huh? You want to, you want to strike back against the father. I mean, all I'll say is I was just like, there's some culpability there in terms of like, you want him to stay in this abusive relationship without, and he's crying out to you.

And I think the dad, like, to be fair, is in a difficult position too. but I felt for Mark when he leaves. I felt for Mark having to go to the military and get his aggression out there. I felt bad for him. I just got a text message. Hey man, how are you

doing? It's Mark Spector's dad. Charles doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about until he's raised his son, lost the son. And why, this is a great text, lost his son and had to deal with the mom. Then tell him to shut up,

get off me. and I'm still chilling. I don't know what this last thing I mean, Bing Bong, I don't know why he said that. Oh, right. Wait, you, I thought it's a certain way when, like, the dad sees Mark out there, like, drinking, going through it, and I'm like,

are you not going to leave and go, like, grab and hug your son? Who's, like, crying? Okay. This entire episode. Damn, I'm the only one. I know, I'm with it. Now it's fucked up.

I'm with it. Look, this episode was a, I keep trying to tell you guys this episode was a doubter we're talking to all of this stuff this stuff is fucking depressing this episode was a it was good it was a downer oh I van you said earlier you're just like

I don't know if I ever watched this again I was never I was just like I don't know if I can re-watch this is like a painful watch this is a lot going on I watched it again this morning oh did you you're one for pain I enjoy I mean I like I said I enjoy I really enjoyed it. You said it was the best.

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as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehauser Kelly Riley, Annette Benning, and Ed Harris, now streaming on Paramount Plus. Real quick, let's talk about two last things here. One, Arthur. Arthur seems like he's pretty clear in the lead here.

He seems like he's controlling things, if you ask me. I'm still wondering how the hospital connects to everything. Is Arthur right now an active participant in all of this, or is everything that's happening right now when we see Arthur Harrow in this as the doctor are all of these as all of this coming from Mark and Stephen's perspective or is Harrow in some way being active?

You think it's all in their minds, you know? I think it's all in his head. I think he's just, you know, reusing characters from his life to populate the mindscape and Arthur Harrow is the great villain, aka the doctor who's trying to, you know, solve his problem. The problem he doesn't want to,

he doesn't think he has. and so that's why Dr. Harrow is, you know, or that's why Harrow is Dr. Harrow in the scenario. I think that this is actually, I don't know that this is like a two levels deep inception type of situation where like when he's in the when he's in the fugue state of drugs in the imaginary menstrual institution and then he is then somehow dead in Egypt. I think that this is more like this might be, in my opinion, a big ruse planned by Arthur of the. the facade of like the doctors and the mental institution and all that stuff. I believe that that might be the case now only because there's just so many other layers of interacting between Mark and Stephen in what we know is inside of his head. There's still like this mental game with Arthur that he's playing with him that is still

making things unclear. Like we know that the office that he is in is the same room that is in his London estate. He could say he's in a hospital in Chicago, but he really is in that room. Like whether or not that's in his head. It's a brilliant sort of way of, you know, delineating those two things. But I think that there's more at play

in the mental institution itself. I don't, I mean, Tarritt does say that this is your mind's way of coping with being in the afterlife. Being actually think... This version of the afterlife. Yes. I mean, I will just say

that I would find it very interesting. like if they redid it all, if that was the main mystery of like, is his time in this psych ward real? Because it's all white, because there's kind of like all this fantastic stuff, we're kind of like, this is Mark's mind slash underworld,

where I'm just like, there is an interesting version of this where we're just like, oh, this is actually really realistic. Is Harrow who he says he is? Is this a real place? Who is who? But it just comes so much later.

We're just like, oh, no, this is all instead. I think either way, it's a satisfying sort of, reveal when it comes to the end of it. There are a lot of ways to go. For sure. All right, last question. Moon Knight, like all Marvel shows

at the end of the penultimate episode, has a shit ton of work to do in the finale. There's a possibility, at least in my opinion, that we get an unresolved finale. I think we kind of will, because once again, Marvel is not playing the same games as they used to do with us. What they used to do was get an actor,

contract them for 150 movies. Then after the first movie, kill that actor or put them in a position where we might think that they're dead. And then we go, guess what? We know we got 150 more films to come back. In this particular situation, we are dealing with something different.

They are being cagey at best and skeptical at worst about whether or not Oscar Isaac will reprise this role in anything in the future. I find it very unlikely that we could lose Oscar Isaac as Moon Knight. I just don't know why you would come and do it unless they bring structure. So I guess my question is we're probably going to get a cliffhanger, but what if we're unresolved at the end of this?

What if we don't get answers to some of the more binding questions in this show? has the show delivered on enough for you guys right now for us not to get a nice bow on it in the last episode? I think that the idea of a quote unquote unresolved finale can mean many things now

in this day and age for the MCU. The post-credit scene for this season of Moon Night could be Moon Night Season 2 coming soon because we saw that with Loki. This could be something where this show ends and we are announced with a Moon Knight movie. We always have those goalpost move and shift for different reasons one way or the other.

I think an unresolved or possibly cliffhanger ending to this show works because it also reflects the kind of the suspended animation that Oscar Isaac seems to be in for the MCU. And I think that's fun because the idea that a character like Mark and Stephen and Moon Knight kind of living in this limbo, say he doesn't get out of the afterlife, say he's still left his own devices in this mental institution with a sort of satisfying

reclamation of self, I think that's a cool ending. And if we get to see him or not again, that's up to them. Jones, to Steve's point, it really depends on whether he comes back in a movie,

like a big team-up movie, or he comes back for... Midnight Sons! You see it. You see the vision, right? Or does he come back for Moonnight Season 2, right? If it's Moonnight Season 2, then, of course, you know, throw a little bait out there. So we were hanging on for the second season.

If it's Midnight Suns or any other team-up movie, do we get a look at that, right? It really depends on the unfinished, you know, what they leave out. In regards to Moon Night the character, I think they've done a good job establishing who he is. like what made him this way and what he does. And so if they're like, we'll see Moon Night eventually, who knows, I'm cool with that, right? I'm cool with them throwing out a little, little something to keep us tied it over,

regardless where we see him again, you know, but they've done a good job establishing Moon Night, I think, of establishing Moon Night, Mark as an MCU character. So wherever you see him again, works for me. Yeah, I'm going to be honest,

they need to land a setting. Like, If they, like, if they don't, if they don't stick this landing, come. Like, go, like, we can't keep, can't keep waiting on a curve. Like, they're going to have, like, at a certain point, like, this is six weeks of my life. Like, we got to, you got to stick the landing. I'm not doing this well. It'll be cool.

If we see them in Midnight Suns, I'm like, no, like, the director and the creators were very, very adamant. They wanted to create something that was separate from the MCU. They wanted to create something that was separate from, like, all of the, the canon shit and just make a really, really tight, interesting story. that they want to create. I got to grade them on that. If they don't stick the landing.

They want to create something different from that. So you feel like they need to stick the, they need to stick the landing. Yeah, here's the thing. I think the reason that we keep bringing up is like, do they have enough time to do what they need to do? Is it going to be like every other MCU show?

I'm like, yeah, that's a problem. If this show leaves us again being like, fuck, like they rush the ending again, I'm going to have the same feeling I had for most of these shows. We'd be like, yo, guys, come on. like if we're going to invest five, six weeks of our lives, like the ending needs to kind of like live up to our expectations of it. I think that's kind of like fair at this point.

It's not fair to ask for a satisfying ending, Jomey. Is that what we're going to argue? But we, I mean, we talked about this after Wanda Vision, right? Like that when we, we, not we didn't have the show back then, but like we collectively, like, ah, this ending kind of not really what we wanted from the show, right? And like we're all, like we said the beginning episode, we're excited for multiverse of madness, right? We're excited to see that character again. So ultimately, we'll just have to see what happens next, right?

After whatever what happens in episode six, right? If they landed or if they don't, I think the character of Moonnight has established himself enough as a person that we're like, okay, Moon Night. We know what Moon Night's about. when they show up again, that'll be cool. They don't have to like, the show itself, sure, needs to do,

like, I'm not disagreeing with you. It needs to do a good job of wrapping this whole thing up for us to like look back and be like, how do we fill up in the six weeks of television? But the character,

I think, it's done a good enough job to where if we see them again or whether it's a TV show, movie, it'll be fine. It won't be like, fuck out of here. We're like, ah, moon night.

No, no. I don't think that's true. Joe, if the Nets gets, swept the next day. We're not just like, well, we got to see what they do next season. We're like, nah, packwatch is in the fucking air. Like, dog, if it doesn't land, see, like, we're not going to just be like, oh, that's

okay, don't get him next time. Fuck out of here. I see your Twitter. We're not doing this today. We're not doing this today, Jomey. Fuck out of here. Come on, man. Like, I don't disagree that the show has to land.

Of course, to talk about Moon Night, the show, but Moonlight, the character, it's Mark Specter. I think he's in a great spot. If he's in Midnight Sun's cool, I'm going to be so excited. If they do not land this season finale, I'm going to be like once again, like, guys, you have to like stick the landing for us to invest our time.

That's all I'm saying. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on. Or what, Charles? Or like, oh, like, they have to stick the landing or what? You want to know what else? Everybody's just like, Charles, they got you. Charles, you're so negative. Charles, you're so negative.

I'm like, dog, if they don't stick the landing, that's why I'm being negative. So just real quick before we go, before we wrap the show. I haven't seen a lot of Moon Knight in this series. It's just a fact now. It's just a fact. This is episode five.

He wasn't, Moon Night was in it for half of one scene. Okay. So we haven't seen a lot of Moon Night. What percentage of next week's show? This is, I just need a percentage. What percentage of next week's show will have Moon Night in it? Well, first of all, Mark is Moon Night. Let's Mark is Moon Night.

Again, Joe Me, the Semantic Warrior here. I'm talking about the curious. Joe me, you know, Jome you know, a fucking guy, you know what I'm talking about. The motherfucker in the white cape, nigga.

That's what I'm talking about. Wherever you want to call that guy. All right, Steve, what percentage of next week's show will have Moonnight in it? Will or want to? I hope that it's not a lot. I hope that it's like maybe 10, 20% because we know the strength.

I hope that it's not a lot. Yeah. What are we doing, guys? What are we doing? Like, Steve, like, like, what, like, what? You hope that it's not a lot? Yeah. Well, why?

Because the strongest parts of the show don't have moon night in it. Well, how can you, how can you say the strong sports of the show don't have moon night in it? Where there's not enough moon night in the show to make that assessment. Because, well, because you may as well stick to what you know now. Because clearly it doesn't, it isn't interested in making moon night strong. So stick with things that are strong. My brother. My brother in Christ.

I can't do this with y'all today. I can't do this with y'all. This show's called Moon Night. How much Moon Night do you feel like you, there's going to be, how much Moon Night do you need, Jummy? I feel like, honestly, this is going to be like 50% Moon Night. It's going to be like a whole final battle.

But I agree with you, though. I agree with you. The show has built its foundation on not being about Moon Night in costume. It's literally about being Mark trying to figure himself out. So that's what the show's best at But I don't know

It's Marvel bro We're gonna have to get this fight scene And let me tweet this question a bit What's what's been our favorite finale Ever since we've started this thing It's been Loki and that finale Is about a people talking in a room Figuring shit out

Every other finale Wanda Vision Falcon Winter Soldier Everything it's been CGI Punch Fest Do you want this finale Was in that shit? Like what are we too? He was talking I love how we act like shit just didn't happen

But yeah it was about talking, but like all we got in this show up to this point, I love the show. Yes. We need to see somebody get punched. Like, what, like, we need Moon Knight to kick somebody, bro. I'm sorry, bro. I love this show. We need Moon Knight to do a flip.

We need Moon Knight to say it to, like, jump off or something, bro. Thank you. This one day is my brother. Thank you. To do a roundhouse kick. We need him to throw a Moon Knight a ring. Or like, we, bro. Come on, bro.

Well, actually, I'm sorry, bro. You remember the whole Superman movie where Superman didn't even wrestle with anybody? And we was like, yo, what the fucking Superman doing? Like, like, what is like, what the hell? I'm not, I'm witch. I love the show. But I would like to see Moon Night do some fucking Krav Maga

or something, bro. In the next episode. Steve, the whole episode is just going to be Arthur Harrow and Mark just chatting out, like, just sitting down the whole time. Just talking over some tea. Kang shows up. How about that?

You love the show now? Kang shows up. Like, it's a little different, Steve. It's all I'm saying. Like, Charles, what, like, what do you think? No, if Moonnights and I'm going to ask for, like, 50% of that episode, I'm going to talk my shit. Like, I don't give a fuck. Like, y'all don't have to.

I feel like this is interesting. I'm like, I don't need it anymore. Like, we've gone so long. Why stop now? Because I, like. You know what, hey, you know what, Steve? Steve is like, Steve's like a Diet Coke drinker.

I just want the caffeine. Is that it? No, no, let me tell you. People want to cut calories, they start drinking Diet Coke. That's so not the way to do that. After a while, I know, but this is what niggas used to do back before we had the internet.

So, like, after a while, you get used to Diet Coke. Like, you get used to the taste of Diet Coke. You don't feel like you need Coke anymore. It's like, I've gone without Diet, I've gone without Coke for so long. long, this Diet Coke tastes just fine. You know what happens?

You had a party somewhere. They don't have Diet Coke. And you drink a real Coke. And it makes your, uh, want to, uh. And you're like, Jesus Christ. So, Steve, you feel like you don't need any Coke right now because you haven't had any. But if you, if you get some next episode, you're going to drink it and have a Coke in a smile and shut the fuck up.

That's what's going to happen. I want to put it here. You could put this at the top. We could, we could, I don't, if Moon Knight is in this next episode, kicking all types of ass, we get super amazing fucking fight scenes. I don't want to hear Jomey or Steve come back on here and be like, oh, this was so great, blah, blah, because y'all said you didn't need it. I don't want to hear that shit.

I'm allowed to like what I have it. You said you'd rather not have it at this point. It's all about how you use the tools. He can do what he wants, man. I'm having a great time. I'm loving this a lot. I don't need a CGI punch fest, but if we get it. get it and it's good

cool. Now y'all back track if we get it and it's right y'all niggas y'nigas crawfishing all right cool how we got

fishing y'all niggas crawfishing y'all niggas crawfish we're good let's go look we're gonna get the CGI fight like we know this yeah right like we like we talked about this

in like episode one Loki is the anomaly right Wanda Vision Hawk eye what if like everything we've seen so far the last episode becomes you know

a nice big fight team between the hero and the villain. So we'll probably get that and that'll probably be fine. But I think what Steve is trying to say is if we don't get that because the show has not given us anything close to that so far, that's also okay. Steve will live, he will go about his day and love himself. He'll be chilling. Right, right.

Listen, I stand the piece away off flip-flopping. Let's take this out. Wait, I got one more question, though. What you got? We, in the last episode, not today's, but last week's, We saw a sarcophagus shaking. And in this episode, when he's talking to Harrow the first time and he's got that little award, glass award, he's speaking a little different. You know, it don't sound like Jake, it don't sound like Mark Horsting.

Will we see Jake in episode six or at all in this? God be honest, but you don't care. Interesting. Wow. It would be cool. It would be cool. but I'm so investing in what's going on with Mark and Steve right now

Oh, maybe like you might not need them to see him punch anybody See? Jomey good question I'm not sure. No, I'm investing to what's happening I need a little, I want to see moon night guys I want to see, I like to watch people fly

and flip around, you know what I mean? But, you know, whatever. All right, Jomey, great question. That is a wrap. This coming Friday, the House of R returns with their deep dive into the latest episode of Moon Night. And the Midnight Boys will be giving you instant reactions to every episode of Moon Night.

Dr. Strange is right around the corner. Okay? Midnight boys, we're giving their thoughts on the movie next Friday. Producer credits. Our producer is Steve, Almond Joy, the cuddly lover boy. Jomi, a dinner on hashtag free Jomey on social media. Additional production by Arjuna, Ram Gapal. Charles?

It's very important that you take us out right now. Support my man van's book. Y'all heard what I said. And next time you eat a lot of beats, don't be scared if your pee is red. Is this a serious thing? Beats make your piss red. This is like a known thing.

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So when I first trips back to Louisiana, I visited an old flame. I visited an old flame. The next day, I had a beet salad for lunch. My mom makes the beet salad. I eat the beet salad. And later on that day, I'm peeing. And my pee is super duper red. Like it's red

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You know what I mean? That's a horrifying moment. Like I just dreamed if that happened. Super fucking scary. Like ridiculously scary. And it gets to the point to why I bring it up to my mom. I'm like, mom, I need to go to the doctor. I think I'm peeing blood.

And she didn't miss the beat. She goes, it's the beat salad from yesterday. She's watching TV. I'm like, what? She's like, it's the beats. You're not, there's nothing. wrong with you. I'm telling you, has it ever happened before? No. It's

the beat salad. Don't even worry about it, son. I know what you're going to do. So go do your whole freak out thing. Go do your anxiety thing. But I'm telling you, it's the beat salads. Fresh beats. I put them in there. They weren't cooked down very much. You're going to have a little redness. I'm like, okay, cool. So this is all the beats that you want. Some say

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