The Ringer-Verse - Nintendo Switch 2 Reveal Reactions

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Ben and Matt James discuss Nintendo's video unveiling of its Switch successor: what was confirmed, what was strongly suggested, and what wasn't mentioned at all. They also discuss Nintendo's promotional approach, how the Switch 2 fits into the larger gaming landscape, their hopes for future reveals, and more. Host: Ben Lindbergh Guest: Matt James Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfireradio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors.

So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Hello and welcome into the Ringerverse, your nexus feed for all things fandom. I am Ben Lindberg, senior editor for the Ringer and host of ButtonMash, where we talk about buttons of all kinds, including that mysterious square one on the new JoyCon. I'm joined by Ringer deputy art lead Matt James, who is mostly the same.

as he used to be, but slightly larger and with magnetic controllers. Hello, Matt, or should I call you Matt, too? Switch two! Switch two, Ben. Switch two. Yeah, we saw some stuff about Switch two. Two! It's not pro, it's two.

We have hopped on mic for a short, impromptu pod today, because Nintendo has revealed the Switch two, sort of. I'd call it more of a leak confirmation than a true reveal. even the fact that there was going to be an announcement on Thursday was rumored days ago. But nonetheless, we got a two-minute video that provides our first official look at this system and confirms a few things about it while leaving a lot unsaid. So shall we list the things we know for sure? Let's do it.

Okay. I will call them out and you can give me your reaction and let me know if I'm omitting anything. And then we can discuss a couple things that seemed strongly implied, but not completely confirmed by this video. and after that, what wasn't here and what we still don't know but would like to. So first up, it is in fact called the Nintendo Switch 2. Sure is. The two stands for the fact that it has not one but two USBC ports.

That's not true. It is the second switch. But there are two USB ports, and you can never have enough USB ports as far as I'm concerned. So get hyped. Are you disappointed that it's not called the Super Switch? No, I don't really care. The one thing that bothers me is if you look at the dock,

it says two Nintendo Switch and that that just bothers the wrong order above the it's fine you're not getting two Nintendo Switches it's a little annoying you are getting one Nintendo Switch too

yeah well you are the deputy art lead of the ringer graphic design is your passion so that's a good note it's probably a little probably a little too late to amend the design here

but still so I guess I'm slightly disappointed that it has kind of a boring name but it kind of seems to fit what the system is we will talk about that. If you called it Super Switch, that might oversell it. If that made people think of the leap between the NES and the Super NES, for instance,

then that might lead to a little disappointment. Yeah, they continue to set expectations very low for this thing. Yes. In the naming, in the design. Yeah. I think they must have a lot of software ready to wow us because everything else about this is very like just incremental. update like we've never seen from Nintendo.

Yes. This is a numbered Nintendo system for, I believe, the first time, unless you count like, you know, like 3DXL. That doesn't count just because it has a numeral in it. Yeah. DS, 3DS. We use Switch to, but still, it is the first really direct sequel. And that does seem to fit the bill here.

I want to discuss that a little more, but we'll continue with our confirmation. Second, it is coming out this year. I don't know anyone who thought it wasn't coming out this year, but hey, now we know for sure. Switch 2 coming in 2025. Where did this rank on the surprise meter for you? That's my favorite year for this to come out personally. Me too, yeah. My first choice other than if it could have come out last year.

This is ideal. Okay. Third, it's a little larger. Now, let me ask you as someone who plays on the move more than I do. because you probably leave your house more than I do. And as I've... It's a close competition. It's a photo finish, but I think you would have the edge.

But I have barely removed my switch from its dock for probably months at a time at this point. So I just plug that thing in the dock. I hook it up via HDMI. I have my pro-controller. This is atypical. So the fact that the switch is something you can play on the go doesn't matter quite as much if you're not on the go that much. And so I'm not the standard.

switch user in that respect. But because you are, or at least are closer to that, is it good that it is bigger? Do we want it to be bigger? Is there a point at which the portability becomes compromised? Or generally, are you thinking, well, it doesn't really fit in your pocket anyway, so you might as well get a little more screen real estate? The latter of what you said exactly. You're not putting this in your pocket anyway. You're not putting a switch in your pocket anyway. And at this point, as long as it's smaller and less hefty than a steam deck, it's still quite acceptable. This screen is definitely bigger, and that's going to be great because I think the switch, the original switch, compared to some other handheld devices lately, the screen's feeling a little small, even if you have the OLED one. It is nice to have a big screen.

And I want to talk about one thing you just said about leaving the house and the portability of the switch. Yeah. Because I think that the idea of traveling with the switch as the sort of main usage of an undocked switch is not actually the primary use case scenario. Traveling from your couch, perhaps, but not from your house. Yeah, I think it's maybe, you know, you, your partner wants to watch a TV show. or movie that is not perhaps the highest investment level of your attention. And you're like, okay, I'll pull the switch off the dock. And I'm going to play this game while we're hanging out.

And you can have the TV and I'm on the couch. And maybe I have to move to another room. Like, it's the flexibility really of just moving around your home. More so, I think, then, like, oh, I'm going to bring the switch in its case to work. You know? I think that the sort of handheld revolution going on has to do more with just the freedom to play on your own screen within your home. So, yeah, I think it makes a big difference that the screen is bigger now. And yes, there is definitely a point where, you know, all of a sudden you feel like you're holding an iPad with controls.

Which would not be ideal. But I think they, from what I can tell, based on the size increase, it feels very, very. reasonable. And I think having it in your hands, you're going to feel like it's a pretty luxurious size as someone used to holding a switch. Yeah, you can lie down in bed and play it. You can take it to the toilet on your face while you're dead by accident. Sure, and it'll hurt a little bit more than it used to. But yeah, I wrote something for the ringer.com. What a great website many years ago about how the switch can be a relationship saver because you don't have to fight over limited screen space. And my wife plays games too,

a little less contentious than it would be in a relationship where you have one gamer and one non-gamer. But still, we don't have to fight over the screen. If one of us is playing Switch, then someone else could do something else, and that's nice. And it's not unique to the Switch. It's not even as unusual as it was when the Switch came out. You have a PlayStation Portal. You have this is an Xbox.

Everything is an Xbox. You have the Steam Deck and all of its successors and copycats and imitators. But still, it is a main selling point of the system. Okay. Fourth, it has magnetic joycons that are also a little larger than the switch joycons and that snap onto the sides rather than sliding in from the top. So as noted, I'm more of a pro-controller man myself. Same.

But if you are a joycon user, seems like it's added convenience. Seems like also maybe they have worked out some of the issues with the joysticks, hopefully, and the drift. There are a couple of close-ups of the joysticks rotating in this video. It's carelessly spinning. Yeah, right. Like, oh, look what these things could do. They're just like doing donuts in the parking lot, basically, with these joysticks. With an attitude of immortality, just spinning.

Yeah, I so rarely detach and reattach the joycons that I always forget how to do it when I'm actually called upon to do it. And so this is simpler, right? I just kind of snap it onto the sides. Seems good. It seems good. I'm a little concerned about the magnets. I think, you know, people are going to pinch their fingers. these magnets, right?

Right? I guess. That could happen. Yeah. You don't really worry about it, like, sliding your switch onto the joycons or whatever. But, like, those magnets, they got to be strong. Yeah. And your fingers are, I don't know.

We'll see. We'll see. As long as you're not doing the Wii moat and damaging your TV and throwing it straight into your screen. That's the worst. Yeah. H hurting your fingers is fine. Hirting your screen. That's a deal breaker.

Okay. Fifth, as was rumored, there is an extra button. Now, some of the rumors were calling this the C button, which was making people think of the yellow N64 buttons. There's no actual label or letter on this button. It appears to be a square blank button on the right joycon. Do you have any theories about what this might be? Yeah, I mean, people have been saying C and have been floating around the word like capture. like this is some perhaps button that has some sort of social element to it, perhaps, a sharing kind of, yeah, I don't know what we're going to have to see. I think that that sounds right. And I think when we go talk about Mario Card a little later, I'll dive into why I think that sounds right. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch 2 finally had perhaps a little bit more of,

a focus on multiplayer online activity. Yeah. And community online. So we'll see. Yeah. And the switch, of course, has a capture button,

but maybe this would be some new functionality that the switch to seems to preserve that same button. But maybe it's some kind of casting, you know, cast to your TV or screen share, or it could be something social. Yeah.

Yeah, it could bring up some kind of social hub with maybe a friend's list or voice or video or text chat of some sort, some kind of communication. Maybe it's making it easier for Twitch integration or something like that. Yes, maybe. At the same time, I can't imagine Nintendo would just make it easier for you to put images and video of their products online. Seems unlikely.

Maybe their lawyers, just they're getting bored with how easy it is to walk through the world crushing everyone. Conceded after all these leaks, they're just beaten down. Fine. Just put anything out. there that you want we won't sue you yes they will you can't do anything that will undermine the Nintendo music app right so it could also have something to do with mouse functionality for the joycon but we'll get into that just a little later maybe it has something to do with switching up how the joycon functions the sixth

confirmed thing so Nintendo had previously announced that the switch two would be backward compatible which again not a surprise it reiterated in this video that the Switch 2 will play Nintendo Switch 2 exclusive games as well as Nintendo Switch games, both digital and physical. The only new wrinkle this time was an asterisk and caveat that, and I quote, certain Nintendo Switch games may not be supported on or fully compatible with Nintendo Switch 2. How do you interpret that? Well, that makes sense.

I think that, you know, there are probably some games that are designed specifically for the Switch 1 hardware that perhaps maybe just the small changes to the design here make difficult, maybe like ring fit adventure probably. Yeah, or like Nintendo Labo, the cardboard kit, where you stick the switch in there, it just might not fit anymore. Yeah, exactly. But I will say, I think that there's actually something here that we've glossed over a little bit as well, which is that it seems to imply that,

we will be continuing to get physical switch games for Switch 2, which at this point in 2025, I don't think physical software is a given for any new piece of hardware anymore. Yeah. So that is good to see. Yeah, you're right. Can't take that for granted. If anyone clings to physical media, the longest,

it will be Nintendo who clung to cartridges the longest. But even so, yes, I guess you could take that as confirmation there. Seventh, there will be a Nintendo Direct on April 2nd, which will be followed by a series of worldwide hands-on events, the Switch 2nd, like the ones that preceded the Switch's launch. These will be held from early April through early June, and you can register for those starting this Friday. And I guess there are a few things we could say about that, potentially. What do you make of the fact that we're talking about? about a Nintendo direct

about two and a half months before we will actually see it. Well, first of all, that is too long, and I hate it. And second of all, I'm glad that they didn't pick April 1st. April 1st would have been

a bad idea for this. So thank you for making me wait the one extra day to not have to deal with people on the internet ruining that reveal in a myriad of ways. Yeah,

that is a long time to have to wait for Nintendo direct. We are used to Nintendo saying, hey, we're going to have Nintendo Direct, and it is within the next 48 hours. It kind of surprised

me, honestly, that they're going to make us wait this long. It almost feels like the leaks were coming out so fast and so strong for the Switch 2, that they just needed to show us the thing and then

give us a date of when we'll get more info. I think ideally, they probably would have wanted to wait until closer to when they are ready to reveal the games. But, man, that info is just out there. It's out there, man. And you know what? Whatever we didn't learn today, I'm sure we're going to learn a few more things before April 2nd rolls around. Yeah, that was my takeaway, too.

This can't have been the original timeline. Nintendo had said that they would make an announcement prior to the end of their final. financial quarter, so March 31st. And given that, and also given this April 2nd date, I'm going to guess that maybe the original plan was just that they would say something at the end of March and then would make us wait a few days for that direct, right? That they would wait until the end of that self-imposed deadline, say, yeah, it's coming, and you can see all of it in a few days. And perhaps that was moved up just because of the pressure applied by all these leaks. We talked about it last week on the 2025 preview pod just didn't seem sustainable that we were getting

almost every detail about the system. And Nintendo was just silent. And it feels to me like they put this video out there to say that they know that we know and now we know that they know that we know, right? And so they just wanted it to be something official to kind of reclaim the news cycle, whereas they were previously just sort of seeding that territory to the leakers who, you know, those leaks have proved pretty credible, right? Not 100%, but for the most part, this is what we thought it was. And it does feel to me like their hint was forced by all of that information. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit.

But that April 2nd date and then following that April 2nd date, all of these events in cities around the world, the first it goes to New York and then come in here to L.A. and then eventually it's going overseas. I think the last city might be Seoul before all this world tour ends. I think it's safe to assume that this thing's not coming out until after all of those dates. So I think at the earliest you would see this is sometime in June. And I think it might even be more likely to be July or August even. Yeah, even though we didn't get a release date confirmation, we kind of got confirmation of when the release date wouldn't be, which is extremely soon.

So as you said, there's the sole hands-on event, May 31st to June 1st, and then Hong Kong and Taipei at later dates that have been unspecified. So, yes, you would think that this will not be before June, unless there's some sort of staggered release for the console, which seems unlikely, you're not going to be doing these hands-on, you know, get your grubby. fingers on a switch to if you could just go buy one, right? So there had been some rumors that suggested maybe the fact that we're getting all these leaks suggests that this is on the verge of coming out, that they're just going to release it shortly after they officially unveil it. And it seems like that will not be the case. So we're going to have to wait. It's probably going to be a summer switch too. Yeah. And, you know, there is precedent for systems releasing on different dates and different regions, obviously. So it's not impossible for the switch to come out in maybe Japan and North America

at one date, perhaps early June, and then, you know, stagger release to other regions, you know, in the weeks to follow. But you do kind of get the sense from Nintendo that, you know, it would be ideal for them to have a global launch date. I think that just makes the most sense. And we also learned today through a Bloomberg report that mentions that they plan to have 20 million switch two units in the first year, as opposed to when the original switch launched, they had 15 million. Yes. So, you know, 15 to 20 million. That's a big jump. And I think it's still safe to assume that that probably still won't be enough, quite frankly. It's never enough.

but it should be closer to enough. And that was one of the things I mentioned on our pod last week that perhaps all of these leaks suggested that they were really getting ahead of things when it came to building up a stockpile of the hardware here so that they couldn't keep a lid on it just because there were so many being made and they started manufacturing these things early enough

that they could meet the demand more or less for that first year in that first holiday season. And you would think, given that this is not an enormous leap hardware-wise seemingly from all the information that we have here. It's not necessarily a bleeding-edge system. Given that, given the fact that some of the supply chain issues from the early pandemic era have ironed themselves out, one would hope that you'll be able to get one of these things when you want one without a terribly long wait. So that's the upside. We're waiting a while to actually see it and have it, but once it's announced, maybe we will not have to wait that much

longer. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about two things that we're not quite confirmed, but we're strongly implied here and are maybe the most exciting aspects of this video. So we're sort of burying the lead. But the first is what was on the screen of the Switch 2 in this video. And that certainly appears to be a new Mario Kart.

And you called this on our pod last week. We were speculating about what games Nintendo might drop to support the Switch 2, what might be available at launch. this certainly seems to be a brand new Mario Kart game for the first time in more than a decade. Yep, I am ready to toot my own cart horn here. I actually called this on last year's most anticipated games pod as well. I've been saying Mario Kart. And this isn't some genius move.

Obviously, Mario Kart is... You're the only person to predict that there would be a new... The best-selling Switch game. Voice in the Wilderness. Credit to Matt James. Every family who has more than one switch has more than one copy of Mario Kart. Yes. So obviously, that's a huge system.

So that's exciting to see a new Mario Kart. Obviously, everyone loves Mario Kart. It doesn't get me the most hyped, obviously, because I think, you know, every... I sort of feel the same way I do about Grand Theft Auto 6 about a new Mario Kart, which is, well, I don't believe. I believe that we have a ton of new places to go with this franchise that we haven't been already, but I'm sure that when I play it, I'm going to thoroughly enjoy it, even if it isn't the most exciting thing to me. I'm sure if they're going to launch a system with it, it's going to be in a very polished state. And I'm sure that we will be talking about it on our end-of-year games of the year, perhaps, at least as a quick mention.

would find it hard to believe that they would put out a new Mario Kart and it not be everything that you would want out of a Mario Kart. Right. And we know or strongly suspect that this is Mario Kart 9 or whatever it ends up being called as opposed to another way to milk the cash cow of Mario Kart 8 because this does appear to be a new course. Now, of course, that alone is not conclusive. There are new courses coming out for Mario Kart's regularly.

but it also looks like new character designs somewhat more cartoony in some cases, Donkey Kong's case, for instance. And there appeared to be 24 players or support for 24 players because you can see 24 starting positions on one of the shots on the track. And there seemed to be 14 individual racers on the track at once at one point. So again, it's still cartooning Nintendo characters on carts. So it's the basic format of this franchise that we've been playing for. decades, but more players supported, and that does kind of go hand in hand with what we were saying about

maybe Nintendo's really embracing the internet era to a greater extent than it has to this point if it's actually supporting more players. Yeah, I think that is the conclusion you have to draw from 24 starting slots on a Mario card map. That's a big change in Mario card. That is a crowded course. That's a crowded course. And it also, you know, you have to think that if we're seeing a course that can support 24 players,

this probably isn't going to be a scenario like, you know, the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, where we're going to get all the old maps and everything. Because 24 players won't fit on the old maps. It just wouldn't work on so many of these maps. So seeing those 24 slots, you can be pretty sure this isn't a. rehash. It's not, it's not, you know, like a, of the old courses. And, and yeah, I think that it has to be pointing towards a more online focused Nintendo. It has to be, which is, which is why, you know, that extra button probably also has to do with online functionality.

Mm-hmm. Intriguing. Maybe 24 players could fit on those previous courses if everyone used a lightning bolt at once. And they were all just teeny tiny. That would make them. Perhaps very small. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

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Now the second thing here that was strongly implied, suggested, and this was also the subject of some rumors and leaks, is that there could be mouse functionality on the joycon. We get a glimpse here of the joycon seeming to sort of slide along a surface, which strongly suggests that those rumors about some sort of optical functionality here that you could detach the joycons, put them onto the surface attachment side down, and that maybe they slide along. Maybe there is some sort of roller.

Maybe it's just an optical functionality, but that you could perhaps use this for a mouse-like functionality. Not completely confirmed, just sort of subtle. I probably would not have even noticed that if I hadn't already read the rumors about this. But this does seem to corroborate that. And to be honest, that would be the most exciting thing about this system for me, which, you know, we're saying there's not that much novelty. There's not that much new. Where's that Nintendo Touch where they do something that no one anticipated?

This could be it. Am I making too much of that? If this is what we're actually seeing, that seems like the closest to what I would call a game changer in the Switch 2. I think you're absolutely right. It is kind of funny, though, right? Like the big innovation of the Switch 2 being. like a technology that we've used in our lives for literally decades. Yes. Right. But ultimately, you have to take into account, like, let's say you want to play a civilization game on your switch, right?

Hypothetically, right? Yeah. Or let's say you're just really into card games, Ben, and you really just love clicking cards. Yeah, that's me. As everyone knows. There's no doubt that a mouse interface is going to be a more satisfying experience than pointing your joy icon at the screen and, like, hoping your. hand doesn't shake and, you know, you end up selecting the wrong. Like, nobody really, after the

appeal of a Wii moat wore off, right? Like, it became very clear, very fast at the Nintendo Wii that, like, pointing this stuff at the screen is not a particularly precise endeavor. So it's, it would be really nice to have that mouse support. And I think there's two things about what we saw today that make me absolutely believe this. One, I think you can see what appears to be some sort of optical sensor on the bottom of the joycons. Could be something else. Could be, I don't know, not an expert in what sensors look like.

But I'll tell you this, the thing that I discovered while looking at this today that absolutely makes me believe that this mouse stuff is true is if you look at the switch to joycons, If you compare them to the original switch, all of the triggers on the switch two go way down the side of the joycon. On the original joycons, they're at the top, you would say, right? If you look at these photos in this video, they wrap almost a third of the way down the side of the joycons, which to me, if you're going to place the joycon on the surface like they are in the video, and you put your finger on top of it,

you have now a clickable mouse button that you did not have on the Switch 1 joycons. There's no precedent, as far as I'm concerned, for L1, R1, R2, L2, to extend that far down if there isn't an intent to have you be able to press it from the side and from the top. So I absolutely believe those mouse rumors.

Yeah, and I think this is significant because, and as you're saying, there might be some PC players in the audience who are saying, wow, you got a mouse, congrats console gamers. Yeah, where are they hiding the keyboard on this? Yes, right. But I think this really matters. Nintendo has experimented with touchscreens, of course, on multiple systems. And whether it's sensors, whether it's motion controls or touch screens, there are certain drawbacks to the. that, look, nothing has beaten the mouse after all these years, right? It's tried and true, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And it is still sometimes not an ideal experience to play

PC games ported to consoles and to do that with a controller. And so because we've been talking about how much competition there is now for something Switch-like, because when the Switch came along, it was unusual. It stood out in its category. And because it was such a massive success, it doesn't stand out as much. There are quite a few competitors. in that category, and some that surpass it, at least in terms of functionality or power or just access to PC games. Now, will this turn out to be something gimmicky? You know, maybe it's Nintendo saying, you can now play Mario Kart 9 by placing your

joycon on your desk and going vroom, vroom, and sliding your joycon along. Who knows? Maybe it'll be something silly like that. Or maybe it will just support first-party games and it won't support the games that we would really want to be playing with a mouse. but let's say that Steam comes to Switch. And we talked on our previous pod about, well, it seems like Valve is really outsourcing Steam and is putting it on other devices in supported form.

And perhaps there are rumors about apps coming to consoles. That really would be a big deal because one of the selling points of Switch has been, there are just so many ports and you can play so many indie games and previous generations. There's just a giant library. and if PC games were playable on this thing, if there were either a lot of ports because the hardware supported it or you had actual steam implementation,

that is a real selling point. Then suddenly I don't have to wait for, say, the mini-shoot adventures switch port. Oh my God, where is it? I can just play mini-shoot adventures on my switch with the mouse and not feel like I'm missing anything. That's funny. You actually would rather play that with a controller, trust me.

Okay, but I get what you're saying. Yeah. I don't see Steam ever coming to a Nintendo platform. They want their store. They want complete control over everything. So I don't think that's going to happen. But I do think it certainly is going to help bring a whole new palette of indie games to the Switch. If you have mouse support.

There's plenty of... I mean, the Switch has been such an incredible, like, revelatory experience for indie games for so many people. And there are still so much. many indie games that haven't made their way to switch simply because they are particularly mouse focused. And this opens up just a whole new world of games on the switch too. And also, I think if you bring mouse support to the switch, I mean, my first inclination was, oh, great, now we can click. Maybe we can play StarCraft on this thing or like, you know, real-time strategy. But ultimately, you know, you have to think about first-person shooters as well, right? Because

PC gaming with first-person shooters for a long time has felt like the most accurate, easy way, I guess, to play a shooter, you know, just clicking heads with your mouse and having the fine control of a mouse to aim versus a control stick. There's nothing about the keyboard on a PC FPS experience that is particularly revelatory, right? All of that, the W-S-A-D, all of that, You could easily sub in a controller, a joycon in your left hand, perhaps, for movement while using your right hand on a joycon for the mouse. And all of a sudden you have this hybrid that we've never really experienced before where you have a controller and mouse simultaneously. And that could be a very good experience for playing first-person shooters in a way that we haven't really seen before.

Yeah, it's true. And this is a little bit of a Nintendo touch. We're kind of jonesing. We're longing for something gimmicky, something a little weird, something that actually pushes consoles forward. And we're not really getting that from a switch to. But this would be an example of an actual evolutionary advance, let's say. There have been consoles, of course, that have supported mouse and keyboard. But to have it built in in a portable, capable system like this, that would be something

that we qualify as new, something that we haven't seen before. Imagine all of a sudden, in the FPS, let's say you have a first-person shooter that supports cross-play, right? All of a sudden, there are Nintendo Switch 2 users

who potentially have a gameplay advantage over people playing on Xbox or PS5. You know, this kid's toy, right? The Switch 2, all of a sudden, and they're doing better in the game, right? Than people playing on $200 controllers or whatever. Yeah, and that is a differentiator in a positive fashion because you're not going to get the differentiator of,

well, this game is going to perform the best on the Switch 2. If you're talking about, let's say, a PS4 or Xbox 1 port, then yes. But based on all we know, it certainly seems like this thing is not going to be a powerhouse compared to the latest and greatest systems from Sony and Microsoft. And so to say, well, but it controls a little bit better.

Maybe you'll have to settle for 30 frames per second or something or longer loading times, but at least you can headshot a little bit better maybe. That's big. It's going to send shockwaves through Fortnite, I'm telling you. Yeah, right. And in this era where crossplay is increasingly common and platform exclusives are increasingly uncommon aside from first-party Nintendo stuff, that's particularly important. And it has been rumored from one of the leakers who has leaked that this announcement was going to happen today and also that Microsoft was going to go multi-platform last year has also suggested that there will be a lot of Microsoft support for Switch 2 this year, that Halo could be coming to Switch 2, the Master Chief Collection, that we will get some shooters, that Flight Simulator could come to Switch 2, right?

So if we're going to start seeing that more, and with this big backlog and library of shooters and titles that might benefit from this, that would be huge. That would be something where you could say, yeah, it's not the most souped up powerful system. But look at what you can do and look at all these games that you can play now in their optimal console form. Now, just as newsworthy is what wasn't there. So no hard release date, no price, no screen or system specs. And Nintendo can be kind of cagey with the tech details under the best of circumstances. But we got absolutely nothing here. Now, again, we've seen the actual motherboard leak seemingly.

And according to the folks at Digital Foundry who analyzed these things, they think, given the Samsung hardware and just given what we've seen so far, that, yeah, this is not going to be a powerhouse. It might not even be up to the standards of, say, a PS4 Pro, you know, one of the mid-generation upgrades that we saw last generation. But it is supposed to have some sort of DLSS or upscaling technology that can make it seem as if it's a little bit more powerful than it actually is and can, you know, at least ensure that you could run, let's say, current generation games maybe at 30 frames per second or that this thing could output in 4K when it's docked at least. so you're meeting some minimum there. Yeah, perhaps an Xbox Series S level of performance at best. Yeah, and again, I'm here for the software, mostly, which is why it's a little strange to just reveal the hardware of the Switch 2, because especially when it comes to a Nintendo console,

it's true with any console, of course, that what is really exciting is the games, because otherwise without the games, they're just hunks of plastic. but because this isn't a particularly newer novel exciting hunk of plastic, it places the emphasis even more on the Nintendo games that you're going to get on Switch 2 that you probably will not be able to play on any other system, whereas you can play a Sony first-party game on PC, at least eventually. You can play an Xbox first-party game to the extent that those exist on just about any device.

Here, you're going for the exclusivity in large part. And again, that's why a Switch 2 reveal without a reveal of what's going to be on the Switch 2, with the exception of this seeming Mario card, you know, it lands a little flat because you're thinking, okay, well, that's nice, but what am I going to get to play on this thing? Exactly. And Zelda's and 3D Mario's and Metroids, et cetera, am I going to get to play on the Switch 2? And nothing else. And for that, we just have to wait.

Yeah. And, you know, it doesn't seem like we're getting OLED as a display on this thing, which seems like a weird step back to take after everyone who has held a switch OLED knows that, oh man, this is just a vastly better experience. So it is disappointing that we have, according to rumors, doesn't seem like it's going to be OLED. Another thing that I'm upset about that I've been yelling about for months in anticipation of being disappointed. is that it doesn't seem like L2 and R2 are analog triggers. Again, it seems like there's still digital switches, which is very disappointing to me for some games.

You would really like to be able to have that analog pull in a driving game, in just a number of genres, you know? And sure, there are absolutely a ton of games and genres where you really don't need that. But there are a ton where you really do. And it seems to me like their big innovation on those triggers is mouse-related. And obviously, if you're going all in on the mouse click, you don't need an analog mouse click. That's not helping anyone. So I understand that. But I thought, you know, perhaps you could have had something akin to, you know, an Xbox Pro

controller or dual sense edge where there's a little switch on the back, switch on the switch, to let you toggle between an analog and a digital experience. That would have been ideal to me. That would provide the most versatility. And I think it would be nice if the dual senses haptic feedback were just sort of table stakes now for new systems because that can be transformative. And of course, it's a lot of extra labor and it's not that big a difference maker unless it's really implemented well, but when it is implemented well, it actually can be much more than a gimmick. So it would be nice if we could get that on more systems than just the PS5. For the screen, I'd say the cynical take on that would be, well, they want us to be able to buy a different

version of the switch a couple of years down the road, right? They want to hold the OLED back so that they can sell us an upgrade. And, you know, they never sold us the Switch pro, which in retrospect now, I guess you could reframe this all and say that what people were interpreting as a Switch Pro was actually the Switch 2 all along. Or it could be, since it certainly was reported in many places that a Switch Pro was being strongly considered or tested or prototyped, that maybe they just decided, you know what, if we don't really have some transformative feature up our sleeves for the success or the Switch, then let's wait. And let's essentially give people a Switch Pro and call it a Switch 2.

And, you know, if they had put out a Switch Pro and then tried to sell us a Switch 2 that was an incremental upgrade the way that this is, then I think we would have rejected that, right? But because we never got a Switch Pro, it feels like, okay, we're finally getting more or less what we thought we were going to get a year or two ago with the Switch Pro. And now it's a little less of a letdown, even though, yeah, when it's in an all-new system, you are raising the expectations somewhat. Yep, yep, yep. And I'm fine with that because, again, I'm kind of anti-mid-generation console hardware upgrades as it is. And we will never buy PS5 pros. We will hold out. I am holding strong on that score.

And just to say, I think if this is what the Switch 2 is, I think that this presentation of it is pretty effective. Just because if you compare it to, say, the rollout of the Wii U, which was sort of a disaster by Nintendo standards. And part of that was that there was a lot of confusion about what is this thing. because the Wii U original roll-out video focused very much on the gamepad, on the controller, to the point that people were confused about what this was. Is this a portable system? Is this a tablet? Is this just a controller for a system that looks like the Wii?

And they never totally resolved that ambiguity and gave people a reason why, yes, you have to get a Wii, and most people did not. So I think they have at least effectively conveyed what this is. And yeah, maybe it's a little bit of a letdown if you're looking at previous Nintendo systems and how they advanced on their predecessors. But they start very explicitly with the Switch. The Switch is the first thing you see in this video. And then it just gets supersized. It gets enlarged a little bit.

So they're being very frank about, yeah, this is the Switch that you know and love and probably own at least one example of, if not multiple. And we're just making a little bit bigger and better. And that's the proposition here. there's really no confusion about that. Is it slightly deflating? Yes, I suppose perhaps, but also understandable in the sense that, okay, if this is the least inventive or adventurous Nintendo system, well, the Switch was and is the most successful Nintendo system, aside from the DS, just in terms of pure sales. And so it kind of makes sense to play things conservatively here. Yeah, it does.

And Ben, we're roughly 50 years into video games, the opportunity to innovate. in the space. It just gets smaller and smaller, to be honest with you. It does. If we're doing mouse support now, like, that big innovation is not an innovation at all, really. Right.

And that mirrors the advances visually, where, you know, it's a little disappointing for people our age who lived through the evolution from 2D to 3D and from 8-bit to what we have now. And we're used to these massive leaps. And so you go from HD to 4K or you go from PS4 to PS5 and you just think, is that it?

Right? It's tough to tell the difference sometimes. But that's where we are. Well, you've PS5 Pro users squinting to convince yourself that it's so much better. In the right lighting with the right distance from the screen. I will never forget what it felt like to walk into a Toys R Us and find the Nintendo 64 demo unit and put my hands on that controller. and move Mario around a 3D space. And there's no, there's nowhere to go that's going to feel like that ever again.

Right. Yes, we can't recapture that. And this is our nostalgia speaking. And to be clear, it's a good thing that we have advanced to the point that maybe you can't really ring that much difference out of each successive generation. But also, we're kind of conditioned to think that each new release is going to completely dramatically reinvent things to the point that you can. tell that, oh, this is a Nintendo 64 game. This is obviously not a super NES game. Even GameCube,

let's say, which was a smaller leap, was a bigger leap just in terms of the compact design of the system and the fact that it had a handle and was kind of cute. And it looked a lot better relative to 64, certainly, not so much compared to, say, Dreamcast, let's say. But even then, you know, you could completely tell that, oh, this is a new thing that I could not have done before. And now you can't tell as clearly. And maybe that makes Nintendo's strategy make even more sense that why should we chase the diminishing returns here and live on the edge of the cutting edge when we can just focus on the games and the ease of use and not compete and try to just ring every last little bit of horsepower out of these processors when people aren't really buying for that anymore. It's just not as big of a difference maker. So let's make good games and let's meet some minimum level of functionality to the point.

that this thing is not chugging when I'm playing a top-down Zelda game, right? Like, you know, we have to actually have these things run smoothly, and the Switch has been getting to the point where it just cannot do that. But if we can do that with a Switch 2, whether it's upscaling related or not, and you continue to give me great Nintendo games, that's enough for me, even if it's not super exciting. The individual releases will be exciting, and it always has been, and Nintendo has always known that. Yeah, it's cool. It's been cool in the past, Nintendo's put out like a fun system with a cool gimmick and like,

sure, we'll never forget how cool Wii bowling was. But ultimately, no one talks about Wii bowling in the pantheon of greatest Nintendo games of all time. You know, these gimmicks are fun and they're innovative and they're creative and they spark that explorative joy of Nintendo. But ultimately, their best games tend to. just rely on tried and true methods of gameplay and control. And that's what we're getting here with Switch 2. All right. Any last thoughts, things we saw, things we didn't see, things you're hoping to see someday?

Or have we kind of covered it here? Yeah, I mean, we just got to see those games, Ben. Yep. We just got to see those games. Metroid Prime 4, obviously, you know, as we kind of assumed when we saw a trailer for it last year, that's got to be a Switch 2 title. Is it going to be a launch title? I certainly hope so.

I suspect that when we do get the reveal of games coming out for this, I suspect that we are going to have one of these strongest software lineups at launch of a Nintendo system ever. Yeah. One, because they've delayed this thing so much, you know, they have to be ready with a number of banks. for this thing. We had just the dregs of what they had in the tank last year on Switch for a lot of releases. They have got to have tons of heat,

and they have seemed ready to go with A-tier stuff. So I'm looking forward to seeing what this launch lineup looks like. I'm sure they'll have some things that they're going to tease beyond that as well. But the way they're hyping up how many units they're going to have for sale the first year, this delay, I think we're going to be blown away when we find out what is coming out day one for Switch 2. Yeah, give me that new 3D Mario, give me Nintendo remakes remasters of Zelda games, give me Metroid Prime 4, give me Mario Kart, give me Animal Crossing. There's going to be probably some new stuff too that we... Please.

It's going to be exciting. Those will be the true system sellers. Not the mouse, not the mystery button, though those are exciting too. All right, Matt, thank you for being the second USB port on the podcast today. Appreciate it. Yeah, always. Thanks to Arjuna Ramigapal for scheduling this emergency seat of our pants podcast. Thanks to Carlos Tiruboga for producing it.

But MASH will be back later this month with Mystic Quest Season 4 and more. and you can contact us at Ringiverse Gaming at gmail.com. Stay tuned soon for Mint Edition's 2025 Confidence Meter and House of Our Skeleton Crew finale Deep Dive on Friday, followed after the holiday by the House of our Hyped Draft and the Midnight Boys, Pugh-Pew on Wicked. Yes, the Midnight Boys are watching Wicked. Brace yourself.

And of course, we will be covering all of the subsequent Nintendo Switch 2 announcements as they roll out throughout this year. So thanks for listening and expect more Switch 2 talk on ButtMash when Nintendo gives us more to talk about. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people, real care, real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting of cheese, or just

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