The Ringer-Verse - 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' Episodes 1 and 2 Deep Dive | House of R

Episode Date: May 30, 2022

Mal and Joanna join one last fight and talk about the two-episode premiere of the long-awaited series 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' (05:43). They talk about the key plot points and the incredible character moments (23:00). Later, Ben Lindbergh joins to talk about the presence of Darth Vader in this timeline (02:14:50). Then they conclude by answering your burning questions with Jomi (02:37:24). Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Guest: Ben Lindbergh Senior Producer: Steve Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joanna, do you ever wish you could definitively prove that you had the right opinions about movies? Uh, yeah, Neil, because I do have the right opinions about movies and television, right, Dave? No, because I'm more right about those things, and I demand trial by content. Oh, boy, what is trial by content? Each week, we'll take on a huge question. Each of us will bring a choice and combine with listener submissions and your votes, we will come to a decision. It's trial by content every Tuesday on Spotify, the ringer.com, wherever you're listening right now. Don't let Neil win.

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Try Activia today. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. She's my daughter, Obi-One. I told you. I'm not the man you remember. Well, you're going to have to be.

I can't leave the boy. This isn't about the boy and you know it. You've made mistakes. We all did. It's the past. Move on, be done with it. You couldn't save Anakin. But you can save her. And what if I can't?

There is no one I trust more with my child than you. Please. Old friend. For her. One last fight. And welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to cut meat under the blazing dual tattooing sons. But also, to join us on the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom.

Joining me today, now that she's finished telling us she could smell. of this pod from Anchorhead. It's my house of our marking title. Go host, Joanna Robinson. Hello. Mallory Rubin.

I feel like I've been sitting in a cave for like nine to ten years waiting for this moment to arrive. Just patiently stinking up a cave waiting for my time to shine. Yeah.

I can't wait to hear all about your your dreams. Your nightmares of these zooms. My complete lack of any kind of shower after handling a whale, dune whale blubber? Is that what we're talking about here? It's rough stuff. It certainly looked to be some sort of whale-like aquatic being. Maybe one more callback to those old Tatooine oceans that we kept hearing about in Boba.

Are you making me think about Book of Boba Fed at a time like this? Let's talk about it. Let's do it. We have so much to get to. quickly programming reminders because it has been quite a few days on the feed. The feed is jam packed with podcasting goodness from the Midnight Boys instant reaction. Pute, to the double OB-1 premiere to our house of our stranger things breakdowns. We've got two pods up so far.

The finale pod is coming Tuesday to all of our reaction pods from the Star Wars Celebration goodness, the Mando season three glimpse, the Asoka first look, seeing John Williams performed live, seeing Grogu and Chop being in the same room as Jim and Air support all of it. Catch up on all of it. And then come right back here after you catch all of it. Because the Midnight Boys will be back with their instant reaction to Obi-1 Part 3. And we will be back with our Obi-1 Part 3 deep dive. And then we're not too far away from the boys and Miss Marvel and all of it. There's so much going on. Check it all out. You can follow all of that by following the pod on Spotify for wherever you get your podcast.

And by following the ringerverses social feeds, may or may not have a little making of LJ8, my new droid sun video coming for you on the ringerverse social soon. So stay tuned. So many gems from Joomi from the Star Wars Celebration weekend across all of the social channels. Let's check it all out. One more programming reminder. As always. our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning.

We are here, of course, to luxuriate in the first two episodes of Obi-1 Canobi, part one and part two, both directed by Deborah Chow, written by Jobby Harold. So proceed with caution, with more caution than Obi-1 did when he revealed his lightsaber to anyone on Tatouine who cared to look as he would disrobe to the side

when readying to board his transport vessel. everything from these two episodes is on the table. Everything from Star Wars canon to this point is on the table, all of it. Okay? My guy is out of practice, but it's fine. I still love them. I love them. All right, Joe.

Yeah. We've got a lot of deep dive into dive into deeply today. It's true. Joyner Robinson Time Cop is back in the passenger. For one day. Back in the passenger seat. Mali Rub is driving this transport. I'm ready.

Yeah, you'll be back for the stranger things. finale pod, though, on runtime patrol. But today... On time cop beat, yeah. What is time? Before we dive into the plot of the episodes, and we're actually going to go chronologically through both. It's open with like a big picture, quick snapshot.

What was your overall impression of this double episode premiere? The joy I felt at not having to wait until midnight. No, the joy I felt. Yeah, that 9 p.m. drop. Very clutch. Loved it. No, the joy I felt in luxurating in like two hours of watching you, McGregor play Obi-1 Canobi cannot be overstated. Special.

Just really such a great time. I could do it for four more hours, and I get to. I can't believe this is real. I honestly can't believe this is real. That's what was my main first impression. I have a knit to pick here or there about some other things. mostly I'm so excited. And I honestly think this is going to sound like self-promotion, but I honestly think the

Obi-One-Kanobie prep pod that we did really help put me in a mindset to see the various directions this character is going in, the things that he has to grapple with, all that sort of stuff. So I really do recommend people listen to that. It's not just like a list of what you need to watch and what you need to read. But we had a really good time breaking down a lot of character beats. and I saw a lot of it pay off already in the show. So that was my experience.

Malawi, I don't think you watched this in your living room at home. Where'd you watch this, Mallory Ribbon? Joanna Robinson. It's a real sincere pleasure of being at Star Wars Celebration with our Ringerverse colleagues. And we got to go to the world premiere screening event and watch us. So I'm telling everyone I watched Obi-One Canobi with Obi-1 Canobi. was in the room, you know, and I have 900 pictures on my phone from a zoomed distance to prove it.

And Jomi and Steve and I got to sit there and scream chills. And oh, my heart! And oh, my God, look how handsome he is for nearly two straight hours. And it was one of the thrills of my life. It was really, really, really, really cool and fun to get to watch this with thousands and thousands of Star Wars fans. And that's not an experience that, you know, I get to have so often. And it's something I think, especially in the last couple years, you know, returning to the movie theater, we've talked a lot about this in our movie pods, like the excitement of sharing

something with other people. So that just felt like a really special thing. And I loved both episodes. I loved the premiere. I'm so excited about the show. And I'm so excited to talk about it with you today. And I think one of the reasons that I love it so much is exactly what you, you know, what you mentioned with the most essential moments, Primer Pod we did. This is such an important character to us and has been such a part of our lives as fans of Star Wars and fans of stories. And to get to spend this time with him in this largely unfilled in stretch of the canonical timeline and of his life was a really meaningful thing.

There's a lot of interesting plot development to discuss already. But I would have been content with two hours of just watching him sit and sit. silence. I mean, we don't hear him speak for like 16 minutes. That includes the previously on, etc., right? And I was riveted. Rivided. So I loved it. I had really high expectations. I know there's a lot of summer of no expectations talk on the Ring ofverse. I'm not capable of that. I had a lot of really, really, really, really high expectations for the show. And the premiere largely met those expectations. I'm excited to see where it goes from here. And of course, there were things that weren't in the premiere that I would have loved to see like our guy, Quigone and the

Force Ghost trading. But even that, we got these, you know, we got these calls to Quigon and it makes me think, okay, well, that's coming. Yeah. Yeah. Brut, little Force Goes breadcrumbs. I am curious if you are ready to go on the record and say what your updated power rankings of most handsome Obi-1 Kenobi appearances looks like now after this. Do you have a shake up at the top? Yes. Do we- This is number one? one, right? This is number one. Yeah. I mean, we were there after just the trailer, but like, seeing it really cemented. I don't remember what I said before exactly, but this is number one. I think Revenge of the Sith is number two.

Animated geometric beard, number three. I love that. Attack of the clones slightly ill-advised long hair that he's not really committed to. It's like slick back, but long. Like commit or don't, you know? And then, I also. Gallaginness and then the unfortunate Paduan Buzzcut right situation. I want to say that not only is this my

number one best Obi-1 has ever looked. Championship belt holder. I'm prepared to go on the record and say this is the best that anybody has ever looked on screen. On seating my prior number one. My long time running

two-decade number one. Wait, wait. Is it Kevin Costner in something? He's really high at all. Is it Harrison Ford and something? It is. Yeah, it's Harrison Ford and Witness. And I think that, that's right.

That's right. You know, do I reserve the right to change my mind? I do. But right now, riding high off of debut weekend, I'm saying we have a new number one. This is just amazing stuff. The blue tunic, like high pants, like socks, boots, all of that.

Cuff pants with some hip boots. Yeah, working. Loved it. Working. Absolutely loved it. Joe, before we get to our chronological deep dive of the episodes, since we mentioned celebration, any other celebration thoughts that you want to quickly share? What were your most exciting takeaways from the weekend, not necessarily related to the Obi-1 premiere? I want to pick one. Okay. I'm going to slightly time cop it, pick one, which is the announcement of Skeleton Crew and the fact that Jude Law is going to be in a Star War has me so excited. Yeah. And the like rumor buzz speculation that he might be playing Thron, which is great casting.

It's almost too much for me to bear. It's so exciting. I can't allow myself to think about it. It's too much. That's a great pick. Like liberating Jude law, hopefully from the Fantastic Beast franchise into a better franchise. I'm excited. I'm thrilled for him.

I can't wait for for Skeleton crew. I love that we're learning more about the other stories that are going to be set in the Mando timeline. And by, you know, obviously seeing John Williams perform live and getting to be in the same room as Harrison Ford and Ewe and McGregor, just an all-time life treat. In terms of the announcements, yeah, it's a, it's a 1A, 1B tie at the top between the sneak peek we got in Mando season three and finally getting a first look at Asoka. Like, you guys can go listen to our reaction pods to hear all of our thoughts about that. what I consider just confirmation in that first glimpse that the Asoka show is not only a show about one of my favorite Star Wars characters, but Rebels 2.0, live action rebels. The continuation of that story is one of the joys of my life as a Star Wars fan. Pretty hyped.

Awesome. Again, not the summer of no expectations here. Can't wait. The summer of Sky Guy Expectations. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Is it time to dive deep? Let's do it.

deeper than the three inches of sand. That's what you mentioned, nipicks. I'm just going to spoil one right now. You got to bury the lightsabers deeper. Just like a mere dusting. Like a dust of sand wind in a sandstorm reveals that to all. And it's on a,

it's on a job of sand crawler before you know it. Anyway. Absolutely. Okay. So as mentioned, we're going to go chronologically. And there's so much to cover. I'm interested for your thoughts before we get into the

actual new story on the epigraph in the previously on. We opened with a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, a movie-esque opening. And then we got a previously on that was four minutes long, a montage of the prequel trilogy. The Midnight Boys talked about this. This was not a part of what we saw at celebration. I think that's really telling.

What that tells me is that they felt like everyone who's in the room at celebration does not need this recap. But this is for the people who watched the prequels once, didn't like it, didn't return to it. And they're like, guys, did you remember that Natalie Portman plays a character named Padma Amadala? You're going to want to remember that. So yeah, so it's for the Normies, I think, is what that previously I'm going to is for. I think overall, and you noted this here in our notes as well, but I think the main thing that I was surprised, by beyond the previously on is the Star Wars movie packaging around this. So this is originally supposed to be a film. Obi-1 was going to be a film directed by Stephen Doldry. Hosey Namedy,

who was a screenwriter in that film as credited as one of the writers on this episode. And so the fact that it starts with a long time ago in a galaxy far far away opening and then ends with the classic Star Wars film credits and not with the Mandoverse, here's some storyboard art, and like someone going, on the mic, you know what I mean? And so I thought that was so interesting.

And it's, I think, you know, like we're not titling these episodes, right? It's part one, part two. Like, that's what they're doing. And it's this ongoing conversation about what is a movie and what is a TV show, the constant blurring of, lines, but something I like to talk about when I talk about what makes a TV show is if you can

say an episode is the one with, and with Mando, you can do that, right? Like the one with the prison break and the one with sanctuary and the one with the frog lady in her eggs or whatever, you know, and we're not going to get that. I mean, you could say the one with Diou, I guess, I suppose, in this sort of sequence. But I think what we're getting is just a six-hour movie or three, two-hour movies, if you prefer. And that speaks to, I think, the conversation that cropped up around the Vanity Fair cover story, which was Lucasfilm, you know, you're at celebration, they announced a ton of stuff.

Not any movie news, really, at all, right? And so they're in their TV moment. And so even with something like Obi-1, which feels big enough to merit a movie, they're putting it on this platform. So I think that's all of it interesting in a meta way. How about you? Yeah, I, you know, in terms of the end credits,

specifically that same, you know, signature blue font on the starry midnight sky treatment is used on Clone Wars too. So it's not like we've never seen that on TV. But even Clone Wars is very much envisioned as an expansion of the canon from the movie trilogy, right? And so I think that it made sense not only because of that like meta where Star Wars is right now aspect that you just described, but because Obi-Wan is, even though he's very present in television shows, Clone Wars and otherwise, one of the most central and fabled characters from the film. And so to pair these and make this feel like a continuation of that cinematic saga, I think works really well not only for this character and the story, but as a declaration of intent.

Like these stories happen on the screen in your house now. And we still want to reach the highest highs in terms of what you learn about these characters and how cinematic it can feel. Who knows when we'll not. next year a consequential movie update. But yeah, I think that that was really notable as an opening note. And in terms of the tone setting of the previously on, a lot of what we see in there, it's we get a kind of boiled down version of it later in the episode with Obi-Won's

dream sequence. But in terms of the longer version here, you know, it's almost entirely focused on, certainly centered on Obi-Wan and Anakin's shape. journey, shared relationship to the point where you could watch it and think, is this going to be a show about Anakin or about Bader? But I thought that was really effective as a reminder of what the defining events, and you and I have talked a lot before about, including on the essential moments pot, about how one of the real defining events in Obi-1's life is Quigon. But of course, that connects to Annecad too because of the promise that he made him in those final moments. And this was also quite quigone heavy. We saw a lot of Quigon in this previously on and a lot of Padme, some of which gives us.

that that hope for the future, there's good in him. And also some of which serves as just plot tipping, seeing the babies, seeing Little Leia, etc. So I thought that it was certainly effective. And also, listen, I don't want to say it's brave to show footage from your own story and from, as you noted on Twitter, three of those expensive and I profile movies ever made. But it felt notable in terms of the ongoing discussion that we have about this like prequel fondness, prequel kids aging into Star Wars adults, right? And this prequel rehab that the current era of Star Wars is so centered on.

And that gets us into the opening scene. Wait, can I say three quick things from the flashback? Absolutely. I will just, yes, and your Padme representation. We'll talk about that a little later on, obviously. I think it's notable how much of the fight on Mustafa was in the flashback because we know from production, news that they've released that Obi-1 and Vader

are going to be fighting at some point in this series. And so one of our favorite things to look at for Obi-1 fights is like, what did he learn from the last one? How will it inform how he does this one, right?

So what do the moves from Mustafa have to do with the moves we will see from Vader and Obi-1? What is Vader learned from the fight on Mustafa, etc.? Yeah. And then I actually have a big question to ask you here

20 minutes into our certainly several hour podcast which is Quigon says he will bring balance about Anakin the Chosen One. This is a big question that I don't know your answer to. Do you think Quigon was right? From a certain point of view

is Quigon right about Anakin Skywalker? I don't know if I can give a quick answer to this. I've had very long long answers on prior rigor pods about this. Here's my snapshot, and I think this is something that we'll probably return to over the course of this series in more depth. I like to think about the idea of balance and the chosen one question inside of Star Wars, similarly to how I like to think about the prince who was promised in Thrones,

which is to say that it's not just one answer, right? So I'm just as inclined to make the argument that Luke was the chosen one as that Anakin was. but I think what's most interesting is the idea that it's not a simple either-or. It's both of them together. It's how all of these characters work toward some enhanced understanding beyond. And we talk about this all the time with all sorts of stories, right? What is the danger actually of like adhering toward this very strict reading of a prophecy? Yeah.

So did Anakin's path ultimately lead to a redemption arc and a return to the light irrefutably, right? Does that happen in part because of Luke's arc? Yes. Are those journeys inextricable from each other and from Obi-Wans and from the fall of the Jedi order? Can you only gain balance after losing it? I think all of those things are true. What's your answer?

I agree about the multiple interpretations of the chosen one. The main issue I have is that the force is never stable and imbalance. It's constantly swinging. So I don't know that there has been a state yet that we've seen that the forces felt calmly in balance, you know? Well, I agree completely, and I view that as of a piece with many of the Jedi,

wrongly rigid readings of something, whether it is the dangers or potential benefits of attachment or anything else. Like nothing exists in a, a permanent, rigid, fixed state. Things are always moving.

And you'd think that the Jedi, who always talk about the force, is this living, breathing connection between all things. would understand that. Here's the number one thing we know the Jedi can do. A hand wave. And in a hand wave, they say, from a certain point of view. Indeed. Indeed. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you. Real ingredients,

zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aoli. bacon, corn salsa, 40 grams of protein, made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. All right, order 66. Let's go. Order 66. We open the actual events of the episode with a flashback to 10 years prior. We see a sequence, Order 66 that we have seen many times across Star Wars Canon, but a new sliver of it, five younglings and their teacher. their Jedi master, a new character, Minas Velti.

We will talk much more throughout the episode and much more later today about the Riva is one of these younglings' theory, which we both subscribe to and think is definitely the case. But for now, I'm most curious how this worked for you as the opening tone setter for the episode.

Do you have Order 66 fatigue? Do you feel like this was the right? right choice. I don't feel that, you know, I've heard some folks are like enough with Order 66. Also, like, as with our Stranger Things Pod, I know that this moment, like, hit some people a certain way because of the events that happened in Texas this past week. So that's something a lot of people in my life were talking about. But in terms of, like, a plot point to revisit, I don't feel the way that I do, like, with Uncle Ben or watching the Wayne's die or whatever. It doesn't feel like an emboatsy.

return to something because this is such a pivotal event, traumatic event, and we're still seeing the trauma ripple out, you know, for the likes of Grogu or perhaps Riva. If this turns out to be Riva, it is important that we know this information about her. So I don't think we're seeing Order 66 just to see Order 66, you know. I agree. Yeah, I just, just obviously inside of Star Wars is a fictional story and this fictional universe. You know, I honestly never tire of seeing this and seeing the new angles and the new layers and spheres of impact, like whether it's when we finally got the final season of clone wars, getting to actually see that moment for Rex and Asoka and what happened and how that impacted

their shared arc, getting to see Order 66 at the beginning of Bad Batch. Yeah. Seeing young Caleb, young Canaan. Like, I broke down on. here seeing that. I mean, that's an incredible filling in of crucial canon and a crucial arc, the Grogu memory of that we got a glimpse of, just a glimpse. Yeah. In Boba Fett, et cetera, et cetera. So given what this moment represents for Anakin and Obi-1 and the Jedi Order and their shared history, I think it makes complete sense for this story. But I think if it does connect

to Riva's origin, as we think it does, it's an even more logical starting point. When we move 10 years into the future and go to Tatooine, we are not with Obi-1 Canobi. Still, we open with the Inquisitors. I was really surprised by this. Were you surprised that we opened with them and not with Obie? Yeah, and I think also we've seen, because the trailer was cut from just these two episodes, I was like, oh, I've seen so much of this already. know what I mean?

Yes. Oh, my God. So there is, I actually rewatched both of the trailers because of that exact sensation, which was like a little overwhelming, actually, in this sequence in particular. And there is some stuff we haven't seen, you know, some glimpses of fortress, the inquisitorious, etc. But a huge portion of both of the trailers comes from these two episodes. And I did find this was the one sequence, this opening, the Inquisitors arrive on Tatooine

and then play out their interrogation in the saloon sequence that I was like, oh, I'm having a little bit of a hard time on first watch, getting into the rhythm of this, literally because of how it sounded. I've heard these amazing lines from the Grand Inquisitor in these trailers scored and getting me pumped and hyped and like as voiceover. Yeah, yeah. And then to use it as dialogue, I was like, uh, to me. And also I've seen it compared. But that went away for me on the second watch. I've seen it compared to the opening sequence from Inglorious Bastards, which is a great comp. But like that scene has so much tension in it. like, you know, Shoshana's hiding underneath the floorboards, like, all this sort of stuff like that.

And so, like, we walk in the camera, like, clocks Benny Safdi immediately in the corner, you know, and it's just like, again, it's unfair because you don't have to watch the trailers, but I did. You don't have to overanalyze the trailers, but we did. And so, like, if you. Nothing's all of more than over analyzing a trailer. So I'm not going to change my batters there, but it did. If you didn't and you don't know what Benny Safty looks like, like maybe that scene had more tension for you. Right. But yeah, that's a way in which we shot ourselves in the foot with blaster.

So unsyvilized. So uncivilized. Later, we'll see the fourth sister. Here, it's the Grand Inquisitor, the third sister, Riva, and the Fifth Brother. So the Grand Inquisitor, the Fifth Brother are Rebels characters that will come back into play later in this podcast when we talk about the Grand Inquisitor's, quote, death. Yeah. Yeah. We learn multiple, multiple key things in this opening scene

after we go from that very cool visual of the shadow of the ship matching the shape, the signature shape of Fortress Vader on Mustafa and we actually get into the saloon. The first thing we learned, Joe, is that the Grand Inquisitor loves to speechify. Like, this guy is on one. Yeah, I love this because the Grand Inquisitor, whether it's in rebels or in his appearances in comics canon,

That's a thirst for knowledge, you know, and likes to flex, right? Hearing, do you know the key to hunting Jedi, friend, it is patience. Jedi cannot help what they are. Their compassion leads a trail really tells you, again, that's a trailer line, that this is a guy, this is a character who thinks that he sees the world more clearly than other people, who thinks that he has a heightened understanding of the tendencies of his foes. Now, crucially, does not have a heightened understanding of the tendencies of one of his team members, much to his eventual chagrin and stomach pain. But this is a nip that I have to pick.

It's really bizarre to me. Pick it. Like, we get three occasions of Riva being right on the verge of just doing her job. And then one of her coworkers being like, you're too reckless. How dare you try to, like, capture this Jedi. we're trying, like, I do not understand why they let Nari run away from this scene at all. Like, Riva's just doing her job. What is the recklessness here?

It's a good point. I guess you could say that they're just confident they'll be able to smoke him out again, which they do. They do. This, I'm glad you mentioned that because this, you know, and with the fifth brother in particular, because that guy's a piece of garbage in rebels, not to the grand. Inquisitor is some saint. But it's a little strange to wrap your mind if you spent time with these characters already around the idea that they would care at all

about any sort of harm or savagery that they were inflicting on other people at all. Yeah. It's a good note. I mean, I think they just had to establish a contrast between the third sister and her fellows, right? Right. But it's a tension that feels, I don't,

it doesn't feel real to me. I think that's my weird nit to pick here is like the fact that like her obsession, with Canobi, right, which is brought up here. And that may be being counter to their prime directive, which is just like, let's not focus on Canobi. Let's scoop up all these other targets that we have to acquire. That tension kind of makes sense to me, right? Like, you're fixated on this impossible target. Their job is to find every force user who is alive in the galaxy and either eliminate them or convert them to the cause. But this accusation of reckless is confusing to me.

Someone was telling me that since we're 10 years in, it's not that the empire has like a full stranglehold on the galaxy, that there's still a Senate, you know, it still exists. So like maybe they feel like they need to operate somehow in the bounds of that. But as you say, the plot lines and rebels don't support that at all. So I, yeah, anyway, I don't want to dwell on it. I'm just like, I'm a little, like, all this Inquisitor interaction is a little confusing to me. That being said, some of the fight moves were really fun in this scene.

Yeah. In Rebels, they are definitely confronting the fact that the rebels, the titular rebels are a real pain in their ass, right? And that this alliance is springing up and could quickly get out of hand. But it's a good note on the, on the choreography front and just the visuals of it, that slide. That's slide to blog talk. Incredible stuff. The slide's in the trailer and I still loved, I still guessed. So not even trailers, Courtney could ruin that for me.

One of the other key things that we learn in this opening scene, and I'm saying opening, meaning in this timeline, 10 years after Sith, nine years before A New Hope, the primary timeline of this show. Okay. The Jedi, 10 years after. after Order 66, 10 years after the fall of the Jedi Order, are still the stuff of legend. This, we hear the Grand Inquisitor talk about this trail. He's looking at these scorch marks on the wall.

But it's, it's not just that physical trail. It's the trail of stories. And I loved this. This was one of my favorite things, not only in this scene, but across these two episodes. The way that the idea of the Jedi still grabs a hold of people and sparks whispers and tales and tales. and mythology.

This is reinforced by the iconic, instantly iconic, Hajah character in episode two. Now he is leveraging those feelings

that people still have about the Jedi, but he also carries them, as we see in his eventual interaction with Obi-1 toward the end of the

episode. And I just thought this was really cool. Much later, obviously, in the canonical timeline, the idea that the Jedi

have just faded from memory is like such a sad thing. And to see those sparks and the vibrancy there of the fondness and the awe that people still carry, I thought was important and cool. It is so interesting, but I think, and I think that Haja sequence feeds into why when we get to nine years after this and we get to Han Solo, calling it hokey religion, simple, simple tricks and nonsense. Simple tricks and nonsense is exactly what Haja was doing, right? Like, that's, that's what

feeds into Han's interpretation of what the Jedi are. And so, like, I mean, how's just sending people to Corrilla, like, quite literally. Right, into Hans' backyard. Great. So it's, I think it's a really interesting evolution. And, like, Obi-1 is doing so much actively to suppress that other side of the Jedi legend in his interactions with Nari, et cetera, et cetera. And so, you know, we're burying lightsapers literally and metaphorically,

and right here and all that's left are scam artists. Yeah, it's an interesting time. We also learn that Riva is impulsive and has a real penchant for violence. She has no interest in waiting for the Grand Inquisitor to finish this great speech, hurls the knife with the force at the barkeep knowing that Nari will act, which he does. Now, my note for him and for any other Jedi in hiding is, folks, you need the hand-waving and gesticulating equivalent of a non-verbal spell. Come on.

Under the table. Can't you hand-wave under the table? This was tough. This was tough for our guy, uncut gems, Jedi. Boy, she attacks Nari with her saber similarly, and that's when, you know, it's pushing through his shoulder blade. and the Grand Inquisitor stops her. And we see both in that moment, but also the subsequent exchanges,

the U.R. Reckless idea, why chase after scraps? Scraps are all they have left. And we should be hunting bigger prey, that they are not on the same page. And part of what sets her on a different page is her obsession with Obi-1 Canobi. The Grand Inquisitor tells her he is not yours to find.

We are past this third sister. I will not warn you again. You will forget this fixation. with Canobi, or I will relieve you of your duties is not clear. Now, later we will talk about what we think may be fueling that. But these are, within the first few minutes of the episodes, things that are established quite clearly for us. This is not just work for her.

This is not just a job for her. This is like a sacred mission to find him. On that front, one of the crucial things we learned in the scene is that they did not go to Tatooine to find him, which is important because this was one of the things when we did our trailer breakdown, Joe, that we talked to. about. Like, how are we going to leave this show without shattering canon in the sense that in a new hope, old Ben Kenobi and Luke Skywalker are still there seemingly undiscovered. Right, right. Our colleague Ben Lindberg, who will join us a little bit later today, wrote in his

great recap of the episode for the ringer.com, what a great website, that he thought there were, like, one too many things and plot mechanics to try to track and make work in this whole sequence. given that ultimately they're just going to lure him elsewhere using, that the third sister is going to lure him elsewhere using Leah. But I was relieved because I was one of my big worries about the show is how will we be able to accept that he could just return to life there after this? They never knew he was there. Important.

I think a lot of things are, a lot of things in terms of how I feel like this show responsibly bridges the gap between the prequels and the OT will depend on how we end. Everything. Absolutely. I'm reserving judgment on a lot of things until I see how it wraps up. There are some question marks in these two episodes on that front. For sure.

We'll hit that. We'll hit them as we go. We'll get there. Oh, we'll get there because our father knew you in the Clone Wars. So one more key before we move on from this saloon sequence. And we don't feel it in full just in this moment in a vacuum like we do with those. other takeaways, it reveals itself over time. It's a point of contrast and this contextual framework. The way that compassion and the Jedi code are presented here provides this essential

context for how we will assess Obi-1's relationship to his Jedi past across the rest of the double premiere when the Grand Inquisar says, so what is the Jedi to do? Help you in risk exposure or move on. Now, if he were smart, he'd keep moving, but the Jedi code is like an itch. He cannot help it. And then says his compassion has been his undoing. On the one hand, this is the same for Obi-Wan, right? He's been staying put, not moving, watching over Luke. But it's also a real point of contrast to his current way of life because we'll see that he doesn't help the fellow worker at the meat plan. He refers to him. refuses Nari's plea to help him.

He initially refuses bail and Brea when they ask him to help find Leah. Eventually, though, that is going to be what leads him to help, ultimately leading him into Admiral Akbar voice. It's a drop. So I love this, because he is both still fully a part of this code and this creed this way of life and so starkly opposed to it in moments that really shock us as we see them unfold. No, the way in which he's had to, it speaks to the sacrifice. Like, he's had to bury his true nature deep in the sand, right?

And we see him fighting with this in three inches deep in the sand. The next sequence here, right? As you know in our notes is we're 12 minutes into the episode. We get our first shot of Obi-1-Kanobie. And we see. Astonishing. this exactly this kind of test under in the heat of the binary sun under the stench of rotting meat he has to betray his ideals and keep quiet for the sake of a larger thing and I think it speaks to

the journey that he's on really because like where we meet him here this is something we talked about a lot in the prep pod right but where we meet him here he's not Ale Guinness in a New Hope yet, and he's not E.Megregor in Revenge of the Sith, but he's something in between here. And I think this complete denial of who he is in every single sense of the word, the shoving himself in a cave and denying himself, even the small creature comforts that we see that he has in a new hope,

all that speaks to shame and the mission, Let's go to the meatpacking district of tatamine. What a disgusting place to me. Really, I just hope the health code authority is on this. Just those blocks of rotting meat sitting out in the sun, I'm concerned. His yopee seemed to love it. You know, he slices off those little chunks for him. So sweet.

How can you say awe when, like, you know that that just makes him wreak all the more of, like, I, listen, we're going to get to, rapidly spoiling meat, man. We get to the smell exchange with his visiting Java pal-Tika. I am ready to say here on the record today that I volunteer as Sponge Bath tribute. If our pal, Obi-1 needs some help freshening up. Listen. I'm here and willing to assist.

Your sacrifices will not go unremarked upon Valerie Rubin. Oh, boy. Overall, this glimpse of him in his daily routine. and we see three sequences across the episode where he goes, slices the meat, tucks away his meat, moves phrasing.

Steve, please cut some of this. Oh my God. I'm cutting zero of this. Great stuff. Great, great, great stuff. It is such a striking encapsulation of how much this changed for him. You know, there's the work itself,

which is as far removed from Jedi Master and Jedi General Life as can be. It's unassuming, so it's good cover, just practically. But there's something about it that seems soothing in its repetition and its routine.

There's a practicality to it. There's a way to achieve something every day. When he decides not to act to help his fellow, the guy punches out, sees that his paste up is only half of what it's supposed to be, the look on Obi-1's face.

Like, he is, of course, appalled by this. He wants to do something to help, but he doesn't allow it. And the formant says something you want to say. And it's like, want to, yeah. But he doesn't. And that silence, it just floors. It floors us as viewers. What, I will say this many times over this podcast.

I was reminded so much of Ray and her credits on Jacou in this sequence, right? Like, I am constantly, even though Jack Koo is not Tatooine, I'm always thinking about Ray, to be honest with you. Stir it up the little insta meal. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Her little, oh my God. Of all the fake food that I've ever seen in my life, I've never been more fascinated by the little powder that turns into like a loaf of bread.

Yeah. It looks like a delicious, like a heavily domed blueberry muffin or something. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Anyway. I don't know. And it reminds me of what we were talking about in terms of the mall interaction

between Obi-Wan and Maul in the Rebels episode, Twin Suns, when, you know, Maul says, look what you've become, and Obi-1 says, look, what I've risen above, right? But I think if Maul were to say, look, what you've become here, Obi-1 might agree with him. Like, he's not who he is in that episode yet, you know what I mean? Fantastic. Fantastic point, yeah.

Love that, Joe. Love talking to you about Obi-Wan. I'm sorry, I mean Old Ben. I could possibly mean Obi-1. We head back to Ben Kenobi's cave, but before we get to see Obi-1-Kinobi enter that triangle. Jesus, crap. This is going to be a full season of this. I just can't, I can't help it.

But I like the Jedi, I cannot help myself. Before that, we get in the full caps, Mallory Rubin from St. Steve in the Zoom chat. Tough, tough scene. Sorry, Dad. Both Zoom Dad, Steve and my actual dad, if he's listening to this, which he probably is.

Oh, Zoom Dad, Steve. So disappointed. This transport ride into town where he'll meet his EOPU to ride home. And across both of those sequences, even though he's surrounded by people on the transport, and then he is with his mount on the ride home, they are such such,

such size. Volitary, lonely sequences. He's riding alone. He's eating alone. He's looking out from the back porch of his cave alone. He's not interacting with people until the Jawa comes. We should know the cave, not the dwelling from a new hope. That's the house out in the genl and waist.

Yes, that different, exactly, with the more of the additional comforts, as you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That he's like, it's almost like in religion when penitents like wear a hair shirt. you know what I mean, to punish themselves for transgressions. He is punishing himself. It's not just he's doing his duty to watch the boy, but he has decided to do it in such a way that is the most punishing way he possibly could. He's dealing with raw meat in the sunshine and living in a cave with no – like, if you want – you know, I was telling the guys before we started recording that I watched a New Hope this morning just to, like, you know, get a refresher on what Alleghenius is up to, you know. And he's got a nice little, you know, spot for himself and a new hope.

He's got, like, beautiful chests. He's got, you know, like, he's got things going on, as opposed to this, like, palate stuff with straw in a cave somewhere. Again, I'm going to cite Ray and say, like, him eating alone here reminds me of Ray. Him watching, we talked about this in the trailer breakdown, but him watching Luke act the pilot reminds me of Ray. I think that that is like such a beautiful moment

and also him watching Luke here and then you watch a New Hope and he says to Luke I understand you become quite the pilot yourself is something that Obi-1 says to Luke but like not I've been watching you every minute of every day of your life

and I've seen you I know you're a pilot anyway I thought that was really beautiful but that's But that solitude, that solitary life and the long stretches of silence makes you think a lot of Deb Chow's, when she talked to us for the podcast last week, she talked about the influences of these sort of slow, silent westerns like the proposition or the assassination of Jesse James by the coward rubber. If you watch those movies, long stretches of grimly dusty men contemplating their sins and their life choices. and that's what Ewan is doing in this sequence. One of the things that fills our ears

when we don't have dialogue is the music. Can we talk about the score for a minute? It's really stood out here on these rides home. John Williams composed Obi-1's theme. Natalie Holt scored the show. Gorgeous music so far. It is so overtly somber. and just filled with this longing and anguish.

I was so struck by how sad the score was, particularly in the opening. Natalie Holt, we should shout out, did the score for Loki, which was incredible. And Paddington. Yes. Very emotional scores. Tico arrives. The fact that Obi-Wan is procuring a T-16 Skyhopper, the very toy that Luke Skywalker has in a New Hope, the squeal

that I and lesions of Star Wars fans let out upon seeing this. Well, what I love about this is that, like, you know, so we'll get the scene where Owen rejects the toy. But, like, we feel like the toy eventually makes it back to Luke so that tells us that

Owen himself is on an arc of some kind, a mini arc of some kind, right? Yeah. I'm curious to see how much more time we get with him. Do you have an early prediction on that front? Because obviously we leave Tatooine at the end of episode one. Are we going back there? I feel like we'll see him in six.

I think we'll see him in the finale. And something will have slightly defrosted in their relationship. You know, one of the themes and through lines of our discussion so far is like how many things connect to something that came before, but also how many things help establish the next rung on the ladder moving. forward. And one of the other moments, you know, the visiting Jawa Tika quite rude, as we've mentioned about how smelly Obi-1 is. And I'm sad for our guy that he's found himself in this state. This is brutal. But the other handoff, and there's some humor, you know, if you're going to steal my parts, the processing part for the evaporator, like at least clean them first, very charming and very cute. This Jedi belt. And Obi-1 learned.

learns that this scavenging of this Jedi ship, that there's a Jedi on Tatouine. And the look on his face as he is examining that belt holding it in his hand, that pain, that leads us right into his dream. You know, you mentioned this highly Spartan existence, and he is just flat on the floor on like a sheet, a thin pillow. Love to look down from above on Obi-1 Kenobi,

stretched out on his back. I would say, I'm sorry, I'll stop, but I'm not going to. I hope you feel this is a safe space for you to be exactly who you are, Molly Rubin. Thanks, pal. Do not suppress your nature

as Obi-1 did in the desert. Be you. And he dreams. And we see that he dreams of Anakin and Padmay. And this is just heart-wrenching. We get that you were my brother, Mustafa, dual sequence,

The Promise to Kwai. on Padmay's there's good in him, Padma's death. When he wakes up, he's short of breath, he's pained. Now, maybe this was sparked by the Jedi belt exchange with Tika and the mention of a Jedi Tattooing, maybe. But there is no reason to think that this is not a recurring thing for him, that this is not a daily reality and a nightly anguish. The way that Ewan plays, Obi-Wan waking up.

for this. It's not like, holy shit, that's the worst dream I've had in 10 years. This is my reality. This is my every night. And what does he do when he wakes up? Yeah, calls out for Quigon. How did this feel to you, given your Quigon forced ghost hopes? Like, so emotional. I do, yeah, like, as you and Ben said to me a month ago, obviously, we're getting Liam Neeson, given the amount of Quigone being in these flashbacks. But actually, what's even more poignant it to me. So like, promise me you will train the boy

is what Quigon says to him about Anakin. But it is what, it's the mantle that Obi-1 has taken up about Luke, right? And never before have I really thought about, despite the way in which Star Wars Echoes and Echoes and Echoes, never before have I thought

about Alec Guinness and teenage Mark Hamill as like a quigon, Antiquet, but like this Eum McGregor and this 10-year-old tow-headed boy Luke

and like the number of like Jake Lloyd shots that we get in the flashbacks like thinking about child Luke we get so little time watching Obi-Wan train Anakin as a child because we get the funeral

and then we're cut to Hayden Christensen right? So we don't see the time that Obi-1 spent with like young Anakin but like how painful it is to watch his son how he feels this man

mandate of Train the Boy transported over to Luke, and then also that there's good in him. I know there is, which is going to come up later. But like that part, that Padmei part too. Again, as you say, it's a truncated version of the long prequel montage we got. And in that prequel montage, we got that very important key line from Yoda at the end of Revenge of the Sith, which is how to commune with him, I will teach you. like I have very important lessons about your master quagon. So like to me, this moment here at the beginning, again, we have to think about like what arc is Obi-1 on for this series?

What movement do we want to see from him? So for me, it feels like a quagon appearance will only happen at the end once a lesson has, once a breakthrough and a lesson has been learned. That's what feels like to me. Maybe at the height of a fight, a la the Death Star run, we'll hear him. But I don't think we're going to see him until the finale. Yeah, I agree. Because initially, I mean, again, it's just like so sad to hear him call out, master. And he speaks to him again in episode two saying that he could really use his guidance.

You know, he's seeking counsel and he misses this person who meant a great deal to him. Initially, I was like, why can't Obi-Wan reach him? Because it is canonically established, you know, we've mentioned this before, the sequences from the novel Osoca, the master and a princess, etc. That contact is made. But I love the idea, and to your point about what journey is he on, that because of this extent to which he has shut himself off from the force and from his, his past as a Jedi, he cannot reach him. And so only when he is no longer so closed off,

when he has opened himself up again and realized that he can learn and grow and improve and try to be better without feeling like he needs to remain completely closed off to the person that he was, will he be able to reach him again? And so, yeah, it feels like a finale payoff. And I, for one, can't wait. I love this overall because the adjacency of this nightmare sequence and then waking up and calling out for Quigon, like on the one hand, the past is haunting him. It's this ever-present specter, not just in his dreams, but in his exchange with Owen, et cetera. But it's also still the thing that he's reaching for through Quigone. It's the thing that he knows on some level can still be his salvation and his lifeline. And I just think that that's, that's beautiful.

Really devastating. Sweet Obie. This is a real tonal shift, but I just have to say that now that we have confirmed Obi-1 dream action, my OB-Satine sex dream flashback hope is intact. And I won't give up until the series has concluded. You won't give up until he wakes up going Soutine. That's correct. So then he rides out. to watch Luke, that scene that we glimpsed in the trailer, and there's so many things to talk about just from these couple minutes. He's watching him during the day. He waits until night to drop the toy.

And it made me so sad to think about the fact that he wouldn't just go down and give it to him, like either because he knows Owen wouldn't allow it or because he doesn't want to expose Luke to him and anything that could go wrong. That was just heart wrenching. Luke playing pilot rather than farming is like the most classic and perfect Luke Skywalker thing. Always wanted to fly, never wanted to farm, looking out into the sky, binary sunsets. We'll talk about this with Leah later, but one of my favorite little beats was connecting Leah and Luke and Anakin in that way, looking up, always thinking about what was out there, what was waiting for them somewhere other than where they were.

And, you know, we think about that often through the perspective of Luke or Anakin or Leah, but here, like, thinking about how powerfully that must have reminded Obi-One of Anakin, man, brutal. And it also speaks to how often he must go to watch and check on him because of the toy selection. Like, he knew, he knew that Luke loved to fly. He knew that he wanted to be a pilot. This is just like so sweet. And I was just really struck by how crushing this sequence is.

And again, it's so lonely. He's at a remove. And it is so touching, but it's also so sad because it's 10 years to this point of his primary purpose. The one thing that drives him forward, also reminding him of his single greatest regret. That is agonizing. But if we do what we've been trying to do throughout and look at both the despair and the hope, it makes me think of the point you made on the primer pod. What would Yoda say? The greatest teacher failure is.

And you think about that in a moment like this. And it allows us as viewers and hopefully Obi-1 himself to hold on to that little ember as hard as it might be. I just loved this. Even though we saw this in the trailer inside of this episode, I just thought this was like so lovely. If I get the greatest teacher failure is tattooed on me, will you support me in that? I would do it with you. Will you? Yeah, absolutely.

Team tabs? Why not? Oh, my God. Hashtag team failure. Love this for us. Speaking of failures, let's talk about my favorite fail son, Nari. What a failure of a Jedi. Rest of peace.

Rest and power, my friend. But here's what I want to say about, okay, so Nari, goes up to Obi-Wan Kenobi, and he says, my name is Ben, right? A comic. But what I love about that is when you compare it to when Luke first meets Obi-Wan, you know, and he says, but, you know, my uncle says he's dead, right? And he goes, oh, he's not dead. Not yet. Right? You know, you know him? Well, of course I know him. He's me, you know? And it's like the complete opposite. I love your alleghenness. It's really bad, but I love doing it. You know, like that complete opposite.

And again, it just speaks to sort of, I mean, it's different for Luke to approach him versus Nari, of course. But like that arc that he's on, that journey that he's on. And I think also it speaks to that thing we talked about a lot in the prep pod, the primer pod, about that Anakin Vader split in Obi-Wan's mind, which I'll get back to. You then have to think about the Ben Obi-Wan split, who's Ben. and who's Obi-1 in terms of this post-prequel life. So, yeah. Man, I'm about to cry.

Oh, my God. The fact that Obi-1 goes from that initial, you're making some kind of mistake, too, in the moment of reveal and acknowledgement, giving only the advice to go into the desert and bury his saber. He says, stay hidden, live a normal life. And Nari says,

what about the people who need us? what about the fight? The fight is done. We lost. And then he, after Nari asked what happened to him, he says, you were once a great Jedi. He says the time of the Jedi is over. Go back to the town, let it go. Now that let it go idea will come up again in reverse from bail to Obi-One later in the episode. And I love that echo in that mirror. But here, this is just so bleak. Like the character, you don't think so? Well, of course it is. Of course it is. I just have like a slightly different reading on this than I've seen most people have, right? So he says this to Nari. And then you mentioned like a little later, like it feels in conflict with his desire to train Luke. I'm not sure that's entirely in conflict because what is Yodos say at the end of Revenge of the Siss? He says, I keep really slurring a Revenge of the Sith. I'm going to nail that next time. But he says, until the time is right, disappear we will. So he's in aggressive disappearance mode, and especially on Tatween when it is important to him that Jedi aren't running around the desert attracting Inquisitors and endangering the boy.

You know what I mean? So like, do I believe that he has buried his saber? But I also don't think he's a fully broken, hopeless person because of what he says to Owen. So he's like, the time. Yoda says, until the time is right, we disappear. So I'm in disappear mode. That's where I am right now. But it's not a forever disappearance.

Do you know what I mean? So I don't feel like it's a full conflict between those two ideas. I think that in the Owen, Obi-Won exchange about Luke and about his training, that like, dissonance inside of him or that conflict that he may be experiencing with this push-pull, when is the right moment to act feels, feels very present and really interesting. Just in this exchange with Nari, I did feel like he seemed hopeless and broken. And I was struck by that because he's the character who, I think, in our collective Star Wars origin, and obviously there are a lot of different entryways for Star Wars fandom and stories for people, but like, this is the character who was established

and introduced us as the embodiment of hope, the last hope. And even the idea that he could have lost that, that he would say the fight is done, we lost, and that he would say the time of the Jedi is over. Like, that feels at least in this moment to me, less like I'm biting my time, because then why not just say that? Why not say to him, well,

let's figure out a strategy to keep you safe. Part of it is the risk that he feels for himself and Luke, right? This has the inquisitors down on their planet. It's a threat. But, like, this isn't just coming across, anybody in a vacuum and having to confront the fact that there are other Jedi. Like, this is a person who is in mortal peril and is asking for his help. This reminds me, though, okay, sorry, I don't need to interrupt you.

No, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I must be warming up to be back in Thrones mode because, like, this reminds me of one of my favorite Nets to pick about Game of Thrones, which is Ned Stark's rigid adherence to hiding John Snow's identity. So much to the point that he, like, kind of half-destroys his marriage to his beloved wife, just to keep this secret from literally everyone. That's how much he values that pledge. And I sort of feel like Obi-One, we can decide or not, whether or not he's in a similar position where he has taken this oath so, the interpretation of this oath so rigidly and playing the part so thoroughly. I'm not disagreeing with you.

Like, I definitely feel like we feel that defeat when he says we lost. like they did lose. But I think also he's like, in the grand calculus of the multiverse, Benny Safdi's life is worth sacrificing to protect the secret of Luke, which is a tough look from Obi-Wan,

but, you know, that's the math that he's doing here. Yeah, he definitely has not given up on everything. I mean, he's trying to honor that sacred pledge to protect Luke. And I think one of the things that we'll talk about a lot today is like the fear that he's, he carries about allowing himself to open up to the idea of the Jedi order and the force again.

Like, he's in a place where we're honoring that sacred pledge. We're trying to protect Luke at all costs might mean shirking that aforementioned code of compassion for other people, which is, I think just, you're making great points. I think it feels so contrary in this scene to who he used to be and what we would expect from him. Like there's a person in front of him who's saying he needs him and he walks away. He rides away. And I think it's so striking because he doesn't know, as we'll hear him say later to bail, if he can be that person anymore. And he thinks, in fact, that he can't.

And so, like, Luke is one person, one mission, one purpose, one idea, one embody. And if he puts everything into that, then he can honor that pledge. He's like, listen, Bail. And never opened himself up to anyone else again. We drew straws at the end of the prequel trilogy. And you got the girl. That's your job. I got my job.

Let's do our jobs, guy? Boy. Yeah. The moisture farmer watch is on here. And like, he gets a pretty stark reminder of the, cost of cutting himself off, right? Because the next time he sees Nari, he's strung up, dead. Which remind me again, like, of that Western thing. Like, it feels like, you know, the the gallows, right? The, like, seeing someone hang as a reminder of something you didn't do.

Yes. Something you might have done. We head next to Alderon. Mm-hmm. Amazing inversion of presumably many people's lucentric expectations. Leah and Lola. I'm just smitten by Lola. Give me the merch immediately. Delights from the jump, mischievous, playful, adventurous.

I'm surprised that this was not like widely known before the show. I'm surprised they were able to keep this under wraps. I mean, I guess they kept Grogu's secret. They could do anything. This is the one thing I did know going into, this is like literally the one thing I knew

was that Leah was in it and Leah was like a key part of it. so much so that I told you that when we did our primer pod that I wanted to recommend the Claudia great novel Princess of Alderon

then I felt like that was tipping the scales too much that I knew that Leah was in this so I just shut my trap and didn't talk about it but I recommend that novel if you haven't read it

it's a great novel and it's so funny when the first trailer dropped someone I know who also knew that Leah was in this was like wow they hit the ball so well

in that trailer. Like, they cut around her. Like, the roof, think about, like, the rooftop chase, like all this stuff that happens in Diyu, and they just cut all the way around her.

It's pretty... It's impressive. Pretty remarkable. They did what she does and what her mom used to do, decoys. We get a little, little Leah used to a decoy in this,

which is like a classic Padmaism. So the Luke decoy in the trailer. I think the introduction of, I mean, so the Leah Obi-1 thing, the most critical interpretation I've seen, this is that they're just doing Mando and Grogu again when they give us Obi-1 and Leah.

And I'm going to reserve judgment on that until I see how this all plays out. Bad Batchett. And Omega, a lot of, yes, watchful guardians and young precocious stars. Cute things. But something I was struck by in this sequence when we watch her run out of the palace into the woods and like her wonder as she runs around her beautiful planet. Something I felt in all of these Alderon scenes was the future law. of Alderon as a place, as a beautiful place, right?

So, like, the gorgeous palace and... Everyone would look to her for protection, and we think about the moment of decimation. But just, like, yeah, as Alderon is this gorgeous, you know, we saw it at the end of Revenge of the Sith, but, like, to see it lived in as a real place and to know that it's just going to be ash,

that was something I was thinking about a lot. For sure. Yeah, yeah, me too. I mentioned already that when she's, you know, looking up and naming all of the, all of the ships, how much I'd love just that connection to, to Anakin and Luke will have a great scene later, a conversation between Bail and Leah about the future and about leadership. But it is so clear right from our first moments with her that that's not what she wants. She doesn't want to play politics and be nice.

She doesn't want to just wave, as she says, to her mother. She wants to go explore. She wants to have an adventure. When they're going around, die later, she's, like, interested in all the sights and the smells. And we hear in that brutal exchange with her asshole cousin, you know, she doesn't get to go anywhere. She doesn't get to see what the galaxy is like. I had a note about that because, like, first of all, I was reminded of another Disney princess

saying, I want to adventure in the Great Wide somewhere. But also, when Obi-1 says to Luke in a new hope, like you just took your first step into a larger world, right? And the fact that he's there with Leah as she's doing that as well on Dayu, this is like the first time she's left Alderan and Obi-Wan is there to watch her take her first step into a larger world. Amazing parallel. Beautiful, beautiful stuff. Not everyone is inclined to see the beauty in old Ben Kenobi. because our guy Uncle Owen. Now, let me just say this.

There's a lot of talk on the internet and has been for quite some time about how this version of Ewan McGregor is supposed to age into Allen Guinness in just nine years of canon. How about Joel Uenterton? Looking fresh and vibrant. That beer's really working.

Never shave. Never shave. Owen. Man, so he throws the toy, the Sky Hopper, at Obi-1's feet and says, I want you to stay away from him. We don't need anything from you, Ben. And he's like, it's just a toy. It's a lot more than that. And he's not wrong. It is a lot more than that, right? It's a

promise of a different kind of tomorrow and a different kind of life. And, you know, Owen's distrust of Obi-1 and the Jedi is established canon. We've discussed that before. It's parsed in the comics. It's also present in a new hope when we hear Obi-1 say to Luke about the lightsaber, your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-One on some damned full idealistic crusade. We really feel, though, a few minutes after this, the extent of his resentment and bitterness when he's speaking with Riva and saying, Jedi are Vermin and I kill Vermin on my farm. Like, this is a sour, sour, deeply entrenched tension. Again, I think there needs to be movement on that.

Because that's not who Owen is in a new hope. Yes, he's protective of Luke, but he's not like Jedi or vermin, right? That's not who he is. Oh, my goodness. Everybody in Star Wars, always with the extremes. Can we all just meet in the middle? My goodness.

And speaking of meeting in the middle, this kind of connects the the loop ties the bow. I don't know. What's a phrase that makes sense on what we were talking about with Nari and Obi-1 a few minutes ago because this is that- Closes the circle. The circle is now complete?

Is that what we should say? The Nari point. When we last met, it was a Nari point. Now it is a loop point. The time of this podcast is a flat circle. Okay. He says there's more to life than your farm, Owen. He needs to see that.

There's a whole galaxy out there. And it's thrilling because we feel the life, the spark inside of Obi-1, right? He also says he's my responsibility. And when Owen says, well, I'm his uncle. He says, we talked about this. When the time comes, he must be trained. Like, you trained his father?

Bruttle. Like, that's again, again, that's in the trailer, but I still was like, it hurts. It cuts. I mean, his face. How dare. You and McGregor is great in both of these episodes. There's so much just facial expression acting that he is doing.

And this is one of those moments. Look on his face. Ooh. Anakin is dead. Ben. Owen continues. And I won't let you make the same mistake twice. And the reason that I like felt this this presence of conflict inside of him, him was, to be clear, something I loved because, like, I really like this idea of this contradiction existing in his mind and in his heart. He wants to train Luke because doing so would mean keeping his pledge to Yoda, of course, Yoda was like, you know, to his family

on Tatooini must go. But as you mentioned, to Anakin and to Quigon, to all of them. But he has closed himself off to the force and to the other Jedi. He didn't help Nareheel sooner used to help bail, he's not using the force, he's fearing detection, but much more importantly than fearing detection, he doesn't trust himself to plug back in and to act as a Jedi anymore. And he's saying that there's a whole galaxy out there, but he is so shut off from that wider galaxy that as we learn at the end of episode two, he does not know that Darth Vader is out there. We're going to talk about that more. No. Let's put a pin on that. But let me just say that I completely,

agree with you that fear is a huge thing coursing through him. This isn't actually the look. There's a later look that I'll highlight that really drove that home for me, that fear, just running his engine. Yeah, absolutely. Owen, not the only one in the town center with the bone to pick. Revis back confronting everyone. And the Fifth Brother is here too. And we see again, this penchant for violence. Sever's a hand. Wouldn't be a Star Wars story, Joe, without a severed hand. What is it? There should have been a lot more screaming.

What is it? Marble Phase 2 around here? What's going on? Threatening to kill Owen and his family. And this is where we can talk for a few minutes about the Isriva, one of the kids in the Order 66 opening? Because we get a really crucial line here regarding her backstory. The Jedi are cowards.

They failed you. Abandoned you. There is no point in protecting them. They would not do the same for you. We're going to talk more about the Inquisitors in general, obviously. But something that is so important to know is that, like, informing the Inquisitors who are force-sensitive force-user people, some of them, Jedi, etc., they're, like, tortured into...

They're not seduced into this. Like, a lot of them are tortured in really disgusting, wicked ways the Grand Inquisitor being, like, you know, primo example of this. So we don't know if Riva was a youngling, we don't know how she was molded into the incredibly angry woman that she is now. But, you know, it's possible that Vader,

whoever else has been filling her head with garbage for years about, you know, Obi-Wan abandoned you, blah, blah. So maybe it's personal because she feels personally abandoned by Obi-Wan Kenobi, and that certainly seems like it's backed up by the speech here. The other element in terms of her Obi-1 fixation seems to be

about currying favor with Vader as well. Yeah. Like that Vader himself is obsessed with Obi-Wan completely unsurprising, given everything that unfolded in the prequel. Frankly, it would be weird if you were not. And given what happens in a new hope,

like frankly unsurprising. But like, what does she hope to gain exactly is the question we have from this personal vengeance against Obi-One who she feels like maybe abandon her and or favor from her master. Yeah, there are a lot of interesting. This felt like the single most crucial line to parse, but there were a lot of breadcrumbs across these two episodes in terms of her backstory. Listen, real talk for a second.

there's no point in protecting them they would not do the same for you. Our guy is just standing in the shadows watching as this happens, right? Like watches the hand get cut off, like a rat in the desert. Blade is on Owen's neck. Was he going to let Owen die?

The fifth brother intervenes. What if he hadn't? And again, again, I don't understand why the fifth brother's like, too far, Reva. That was really weird. Really weird. The fifth brother, as I already noted, is a dog shit, dog shit person.

Yeah. Too far. How dare you threaten this moisture farmer from Tatween? Don't you know he has lines to deliver in a new hope? I don't know. Let me promise all these people rewards instead. Hey, you know, who knows what's in store for the fifth brother over the next few years between now and Rabelza? Just maybe the event.

if this show will help explain that switch. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we're in agreement here that that line, it really does sound like she's speaking from experience. You know, it looks in that Order 66 opening, like one of the younglings is a young black girl. The line just feels so deeply personal here. Like it is spoken by someone who has experienced

the horror of the Jedi falling, but also feels like they have failed her in some way. It would explain that obsession with Obi-1, if she blames him for not having been there, as you said, like if there's some indoctrination, And, you know, we'll talk about this later when Limburg joins us, but it could help explain how she knows that Anakin is Vader, which is a big question that we have given how rare that is. And, you know, there's more support by the idea and the ensuing exchange with the fifth brother when they go into the alleyway to have another conflict because he says, what is it that you think you'll gain by capturing him? And she says, what I'm owed.

So she seems to think that he has personally failed her in some way. Now, could that perceived abandonment have been what led her? to the quote-unquote gutter that the Grand Inquisitor will mention later because that was an interesting line too. Like, that, I don't think that can just mean,

hey, you were a youngling at the Jedi Temple because he was a Jedi Temple guard. Like, it can't just be the association with the Jedi. So does gutter meet, like, does she leave, she leaves the Jedi Temple and becomes a refract street rat? Like, and that's where they find her.

Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. From the center of, Through the gutters of whatever. Tattoine to the, yes, the gutters of the in-laws. By God, this family gathering, this banquet. We learned so much about Leah.

We would feel it just hearing her speak, but it's in such stark contrast to what we're hearing from her uncle or cousin, et cetera. You know, I love droids, Joe. You thank your droids, it's good manners exchange. I mean. I am so, okay, so I will not say, you know, like

there are little bots you can have in your home that you can talk to and we're not going to say which brand is mine because I don't want to like advertise for anyone. But I will say I'm so nice to mine. I call her winter apple. I call her precious diamond.

I am so nice to her. That is so sweet. In case there's a robot uprising someday. Yeah. I want to be fondly. as being really nice all the time. Getting my good graces early. What's the weather?

You beautiful, beautiful starfish. Yeah, exactly. I love learning this about you. This is one of my favorite things that I've ever learned about you. This is wonderful. And when the Sylons take over, I'm coming to find you because I know we'll be in good standing. The toasters are going to be real nice to me.

Let me tell you that right now. Because I don't call them toasters. She is, we see her wit. We see young Leah's wit here. You know, we get that definitely trying to tap in in the dialogue here to that Carrie Fisher snark energy with the, you know, that I, you don't need manners when you're talking to a lower life form that I guess I don't need manners when I'm talking to you. You could definitely envision Gary Fisher's Leah saying that in a new hope.

She can also read people. She reads her cousin here. She reads Obi-1 later. What did you make of this? Was this genuinely? No, this is my favorite thing about us. I love this. Do you think she's using the force?

Yes. And this is what I love this. And I, I, there are things about young Leah that I don't love, but I absolutely love this because this is so smart. I think some people thought this was like too precocious, but I liked it to. It's precocious. She's, she is borderline too precocious throughout, for sure. But this idea that she can read people with the force, which then re-contextual, visualizes everything that we've seen of Leia, because one of the most frustrating things about Leia

is that, you know, she is a Skywalker. Like, she is force-sensitive. We know all this stuff about her. But because George Lucas didn't initially write her as being Luke's sister, like, we don't get to see her use the force at all in the original trilogy. And then we get, like, that weird training sequence. Then we get, like, the Mary Poppins moment and the sequel trilogy, et cetera. But like the idea that we could rewatch these movies, the original trilogy, and all of her very keen reads on people, we can now read as her tapping into some sort of like force psychoanalysis of people.

I love that. I absolutely love that. She was using the force without knowing it, you know, and I was, I was rewatching, like, her first interaction with Vader. you know, it's always preposterous that Vader doesn't recognize his daughter in that interaction in a new home, right? Folks, it's tough. Maybe she's got force walls up around her. Who knows? But yeah, just like her just easy, quick read on people.

I think that that's just a great idea to make that force related. I'm with you. And that's ultimately the counterweight to any of the potentially, potentially by the end of the season, and myriad and across, you know, the wider they expand the cannon, wait, what does this new update mean for this thing that we've known to be true for decades, right? Nugget is that if it enriches our emotional

and thematic connection to the characters and their arcs, pretty much okay with it. Obviously, I'd prefer as few, you know, retcons and thinking face emoji moments as possible, and we certainly get a few of them in these two episodes. But ultimately, if... the function of the show is to expand our understanding of who these people are and how they live their lives, then it's worthwhile. And I think on that front, understanding who Leia is and how she

thinks about who she is, one of the things that I really loved was seeing her insecurity about not being a quote-unquote real organa, as her dick cousin says. And I loved Bale's response to her about this. You know, don't ever say that. You are our child. Because we think of her, of course, as a Skywalker. But this reminder that this is her family, too, that she is an Organa, too, that she is a member of the Skywalker family, the Organa family, the Solo family eventually,

the Rebel Alliance, like all of these different spheres of galactic, galactic life have a bearing on who she is and the person that she became. I've just always loved Bail Argana as embodied by Jimmy Smiths. Like Jimmy Smith is just like, so good. How great was me? Oh my God, what a treat.

So good in this episode. And, like, I do love that, you know. When you walked over and whispered, she's gone. Yeah. So good. Just like, I love how much she loves his rebellious daughter. Like, it's so beautiful. And, like, I, you know, it reminds me a little bit of, like, Hopper and 11, because you and I are very much in the Stranger Things mode.

But it also, like, I love the fact that Leah is an organa throughout the entirety of her. She's general organa, right? She's not General Solo. She's not General Skywalker. She's General Orygana. And I see that as a way of her, you know, honoring her adopted family. Yeah. And, you know, you get this great exchange here about leadership.

Yeah. This is something that comes up again later in episode two when Obi-Wan and Lear talking, which we'll get to. But she's saying here, like, I don't want to be a senator. We heard talking earlier with her mom that the itchy clothing made me think of our gals. Robin. Robin from stranger things. Yeah. Hated she clothing.

And what does he say to her? Which is why you'll probably be one of the best. And like that reluctant leader story-telling tradition is something that we love to talk about across all of these tales. And it's important. Yeah. It's important to remember that Leah was the Senate. You know, she says, I'm a member of the Imperial Senate when we meet her in the New

Hope. That's like the very first thing we learn about her. And like, I think, you know, we remember her as Princess Leia and General Organa and stuff like that. But, you know, just because she doesn't say, I am a senator, the way that Padme does in the prequel, she becomes a senator. And even like, even when we see teenage Leah in rebels, you know, she's out on missions, right? She's working in a formal capacity and embracing her ability to take a hands-on role in shaping galactic events. And to fight, to fight and try to help other people.

it's not just because her dad or her mom or anyone else said to her, this is the thing you have to do. It's because she found through her own journeys, perhaps a huge part of which we will see in this show, the impulse to try to do something in shape events herself. So that was really cool to see that here. And she's certainly not the only reluctant leader because our guy, Obi, here's a little beep from,

it's not just a box. It's a box underneath a tarp. in a larger box and a little communicator next to what appears to be a sidekick. It's a slight sidekick. Bail and Brea are appealing to him to find her and to find her quietly. They don't want to draw attention to the fact that she's gone because that would draw attention to who she is. They resisted the urge to give us a word for word.

Help us. Obi-1 Kenobi. you're our only hope line here. And I for one, I'm awed by their restraint. What I really wish they would have said is Detective Canobey. Like, right? This is Detective Canovi back on the case, which is something we talked about in the Primer podcast. I've seen some really fun, solid, like, taken jokes, right?

That, like, Quigon has given Obi-Wan a particular set of skills to track down a taken girl. But I think that Detection. Detective Kenobi is just so, like, in his DNA. It's funny. I had forgotten that Detective Kenobi is also part of a new hope when he's, like, trying to figure out the Jawa attack. He's wrong because he's like, you know, only an imperial blast, like, only a stormtrooper could be this accurate.

Dead wrong, Detective Kenobi. Well, listen, after seeing his shooting prowess on the rooftop, I know I think he's qualified to speak on this matter at all. But I'm happy Detective Kenobi's back on the case. Love this for him. Me too. It was really fun to see. There's a great exchange and a really satisfying one for all the Leia stands out there between Val and Brea and Obi-Wan because he's insisting, I can't leave here, bail, my duty is to the boy. What about your duty to his sister? And he is right. Like his duty is to Luke, but it is also to Leia. It's to Anakin. It's to Padma. It's to Quigon. It's to all of them. And he rejects them here because he says it's been 10 years. I'm not who I used to be. Find someone else. She'll be better off. And that's the real crux of it, right? Like, it's this shocking and somber moment, but he's afraid. He's afraid to go.

He's afraid to fight again. He's afraid to allow himself to care and to hope and to try. Given that is the moment, actually. Well, actually, when bail visits him, when bail visits him a person, that fear face is like what really got me. But I want to circle back to this whole. The toughest look for our guy, Obi-Wan Kenobi is, okay, when Yoda, when Obi-1 says, he's our last hope and Yonah says,

no, there is another an empire, right? And it was already a tough look when Obi-1 knew that there was, that Leia existed at all. But now that we know that he actively interacted with her

and like saw her spunk and saw her promise, and he's like, oh yeah, the girl, it doesn't look great. Maybe, maybe by,

you know, the end of the OG trilogy, return of the Jedi era, Maybe Forest Coast Obie is still trying to retrieve some of his memories. Yeah, that is, boy, that's a tough one. Great cold show. You know, speaking of the original trilogy, one of the things that I was thinking about here is in a new hope, actually,

the moment we talked about this in our Essential Moments Pod, when he says to Luke, you must do what you think is right. And I love to thinking about that here. I thought about that a lot during these two episodes because he's not sure that he knows what's right anymore after what happened with Anakin. But as you've noted, he will get that conviction back somehow over the next nine years. He will get to that point where he will be the one imploring another person, Luke in that case, to help Leah. And it's not a total one-to-one because for Obi-1, it's about rediscovering his past life. And for Luke, it's about taking that step into a larger world,

that new moment of an awakening and a discovery. But I think that that's really cool to think about, like, the distance that he travels in a moment like this. That's great. And then when bail comes in person, I was just like, my guy. Come on. I mean, it's from the heart and I love it. But, like, you guys have to be more careful than this.

Well, from a storytelling perspective, I mean, I guess what happens in between is he sees Nari strung up, right? That's what happens in between. But from a storytelling perspective, just from like a TV perspective, it felt weird to me to have the hologram scene and then the in-person plea so close to each other. Like, it just felt like a repeat of something we had just watched. But, you know. Yeah. But it's harder to deny Jimmy Smith's and his handsomeness and his charisma in person.

So I'm glad that he bailed new to deploy the full smolder in order to get Obi-1 out of his cave. I think that the appeal was more effective ultimately because it wasn't just, he go do this thing, he addressed the key doubt and he addressed it by highlighting his own belief, you know, saying that there's no one he would trust more. And, you know, this is that moment that I teased earlier when Obi-1 receives the same lesson that he tried

to give Tanari, but in a totally different light, bail says to him, you've made mistakes, we all did. It's the past. Move on, be done with it. You couldn't save Anneq.

him, but you can save her. Like the lesson in this case, it's not about moving on to hide and to cut yourself off. It's about moving on and allowing yourself to forgive, forgive yourself for the things that you think you didn't do well enough. And I also see that as a mirror of what of the dig that Owen gives him, right? It's the exact opposite. Oh, like it's the same information, but a different response. Yes. Speaking of digs.

Yeah. So we see, we're cutting back and forth a lot here. We see what a monster, Flea is. I mean, a lot of amazing appearances in these first two episodes. But Flea? I love that Flea is here, actually, because it gives me, like, it gives me fond, like, Back to the Future two feelings, right? Flea shows up, and he's also in, obviously, the Big Lobowski.

But Flea was such, like, a wild and weird cameo and back to the future. And that's all existing in sort of the same nostalgia, just base. So I was like, fine with seeing flea here. Oh, it works. I will say, I will say my, my issue is with what's fleas wearing, which looks like. Steve, can you share your take on this, please? I theorized that flea didn't even need to show up to wardrobe that day.

He just, he just walked on set with that. Honestly, would it explain a lot? I just, I have a lot of, I love a lot of questions. Yeah, about everything. But, yeah, mostly. what fleas wearing. No fate too vicious for him

after what he did to Lola here. Breaking Lola. Horrific. Okay. How dare you? How dare you hurt the merch? Not the merch. Not the merch.

I love her. We learned the truth of Riva's design. He fought beside her father during the war. He'll come. He won't be able to help it. The Jedi will hunt himself. And then we see

Obi-Wan riding into the Duncy to dig up that box. And we see that he buried his lightsaber with Anikins. And Joanna, this killed me. I'm trying to think of what was like the single moment that hit me the hardest. This is certainly in the running. Like, not just burying the weapons, but burying Anakin, burying himself, the embodiment of their prior life and their time together and their bond.

But the fact that he couldn't bury the memories or the guilt, which follow him as this daily specter, this was just so sad. Do you hear, wait, do you hear that music? It goes like, dun da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's actually to talk about Ray again. Like, of course, this reminds me of Ray, burying a laytaber back on the sands of Tatween. A, an end of a movie I didn't like, but of course this is like a full-circle moment. So this made me think about, in a new hope, when Obi-1 gives Luke his father's lightsaber that he was keeping not in a box three inches under the sand at that point,

but in a beautiful chest in his new home. And he says, wild line. He says, your father wanted you to have this. True. My guy George Lucas was figuring this out in the middle time. stuff. Right. So Anakin doesn't even know that Luke is alive when he gets

flambayed in Mustafa Mustafar and certainly when he was going I hate you! He wasn't saying his subtext wasn't Please pick my lightsaber. Please pick up my lightsaber right now and give it to my son. Before you go. I hate you, but can you break that before you go? He's alive, needs it. Anyway, but I love that

Obi-1 has decided this for himself. That my friend. My friend And Anakin would want you to have this. I don't know about that Vader guy. He doesn't know Vader exists yet, I guess, or whatever. But like, my guy, Anakin would want you to have this. Of course, like, the mythological comp for Obi-1 in that moment, that original moment when we meet him is, like, Merlin giving the sword to Arthur.

Like, that's the mythological comp. But I just, like, love that that lights. was buried and then he unburied it and decided to pass it on. I think that's beautiful. And then also, I just, I just want to talk about the design of Obi-1's lightsaber and how it's like one of my favorite things in the whole world, right? I love that the original, I love that you have the, the Obi-1 Hilt, amazing. I love that all these original, please do.

I love that all these original lightsabers are like made out of like weird bits and bobs that they have around. and the Obi-One saber, which looks to me, people would know better than I do because they're lightsaber aficionados, so different from any other lightsaber that we see. The original prop was created from a balance pipe of a Rolls-Royce, a World War I era number three, Mark I British Rifle Grenade, a battery pack and a faucet handle.

Fosset handles my favorite part of the whole shebang. I mean, shout out to the original Lucasfilm Props Department. That's all I have to say about that. I love it. I love one of my favorite clone wars arcs is the gathering where we see the younglings find their chiber crystals and build their construct their jetties. And I love, I love the individual flare that each of the each of the hills takes on. It's so cool.

It's so cool. Speaking of flare, any other, any other lightsaber takes before we move to our new planet? Obi-1 leaves a planet and nobody, nobody sees that he has his lightsaber. He keeps it completely hidden. What is he doing? Again, love him. Looks great. This is your, I see that you have turned your comment from the primer pod into a Twitter hashtag.

He's, he's hot, but it's right? I mean, this is, I think my guy, you know, Detective Obi-won, quite a, quite a sleuthor, really intuitive, great instincts. Good head on his shoulders, great hair on that head. There are people everywhere. I mean, this is like of a piece with Anakin and Padman, a full make-out. behind like half of a pillar on Carson. Do you remember everyone can see you? Do you remember when Din Jarn had to like check all of his weapons when he took that transport?

And we were like, that was wild. I can't believe he did that. In this case, everything. Meanwhile, everyone's like just on the hip, just right here. It's fine. It's just incredible. He's great. He's amazing.

Also just like going, you know, you mentioned the blue and the lovely, the new. shades and tones that we get to see him wear in episode one. You're in hiding. And not only is the lightsaber when you move the robe plainly visible to all who would care to look, just back into the tans and browns. Yeah, no, Steve had a great tweet about like the fact that Obi-Wans in hiding and is the most Jedi, I think he said, most Jedi ass-looking person. I believe, Steve, if I'm quoting you properly. But like, here's something that someone told me that I had a occurred to me that I think the original, I didn't fact check this, so please correct me if I'm wrong, anyone listening, but like that the original design for Obi-Wan in a New Hope, he's just

supposed to look like a guy who lives on Tatooine. And then when they made the prequels, they decided, no, all Jedi's look like this. So they sort of like backdated Allenis's costume to be like the Jedi look. No, but now they know that. Even so, yeah, he was. I basically wore this exact outfit very close to it throughout all of the prequels and he's, he's in hiding. It reminds me a little bit of like the blue at least felt like he was slightly trying, you know? Yes, it did. Absolutely.

And he looked, it looked great. I loved it. I loved him letting some color into his life. It makes me think a little bit of all of the like, why doesn't John wear a hat when he's beyond the wall talk in Thrones? And it's like, because they want us to be able to see Kit Harrington's curly hairs. Like this feels sort of similar. It's like, no, this is real.

He can't wear a disguise because we need to see you in McGregor's face. This is real Steve Rogers in a ball cap energy. Oh, God. So he arrives and immediately goes up to someone and is like, hey, I'm tracking this person. Can you help again? Not like top tier stealth most. We're in episode two. We're in part two, right?

We're in die. Episode two, yes. Your vibe check on dieu overall? So this is the spot that Deb Chow is like look at one car Y films. But I think because we're in such a detective Canobi space, a lot of people are thinking about Blade Runner, which is like a clear to think about. I don't know,

there's some designs on DiU that hit me a little in the Vespa Kid space from Bobafet where I was like, am I ready for this level of like cyberpunk in my Star War? And I think what I need to know is that it's here, get used to it. So you know what I mean? How about you? By a check and buy you.

At least we got to see people get like legitimately high in this episode. Some real top tier spice action here. Yeah. I was just relieved to be off Tattoine, you know? Sure. Like I love Star Wars. I love Tatooine. It was great to be in a new setting.

Obviously we knew from the trailers and the promotional material that this was coming. And, you know, we have Benny Safte's character in episode one. We have Kamel's character, Haja, and this. this episode. Like if every episode is a new player and a new planet, I think that would be pretty fun and cool. So that's sort of what I am what I'm hoping for, though, obviously we know from the trailers that we'll be, we'll be going to Inquisitor HQ at some point. This is where he calls out to Quigon again. He says, if ever I need a guidance master, it's now again, keeping that idea present at the forefront of our minds. And we don't hear Quigon, but we do hear Tim, Tim Morrison,

a clone trooper, and not just any clone trooper, a veteran of the 5001st, the signature blue on the armor, Vader's fist. Now, right after this exchange, which I think was important, we immediately see stormtroopers. So we're reminded of the old and the new,

of what the empire discards, right? A big part of Bad Batch is this shift to, away from the clones to conscripted soldiers. Also, of course, a reminder of Anakin of Camino and the discovery that Obi-Wan himself made of the clone army and everything that stemmed from that all the way to Order 66. Just what a callback for Obi-One of all that was, but then also of all that was lost and the look on his face

as he is looking down at this trooper. No, I think it's a brilliant moment and a brilliant use of Sam here. and to give the aftermath of the war that very real world feel. Yeah, I loved that moment. What did you think of the ensuing spice-selling exchange with Ewan McGregor's actual daughter? One of the many people to call him old in this episode. I was reminded mostly of Obi-Wan's interaction with the death stick dealer and attack of the clones, where Obi-Wans takes this moment to be like to change someone's life, right?

But he doesn't. He's just like giving information. Yeah. And again, that just speaks to the contrast, right? And he doesn't so casually an attack. It doesn't cost him anything. But he's using the force. And Obi-1 has yet to use the force in this thing.

So he's not about to change a young woman's life. There you go. She puts some spice in his pocket, which will come in handy later during his great escape. Someone else who's not using the force, but is using many remotes and magnets as Obi-1 quickly susses out is Haja. Kamal's character, loved this character, loved this idea.

On the one hand, you know, we see him with a mother and her son, a force-sensitive son, getting them off Dioux to Corellia by pretending to be a Jedi, pretending through comling to use a mind trick. On the one hand, like actually kind of sinister,

especially because we know that Inquisitors really do hunt for sensitives like this young boy. And so any, like, aura of deception around people who are really in peril is kind of fucked up. On the other hand, he, as he notes later, he actually does help. He actually does get them to safety. He gets the whole credits for that. But he is helping them.

And again, this is like what we talked about earlier. I think it was really neat to see the power that the Jedi still hold over people as an idea, both for him as the impersonator. And then later, when he says to Obi-Won, if I had known what you were, but also for that family, putting their hope in this person who they think is really a Jedi and who can use the force and who can guide them. And, you know, when Obi-1 confronts him, this was the moment where it really felt like, not only do we get to see some of that signature snark, you know, goodness, that light is unforgiving, we get to see that the fog has lifted. Like, he has woken up. He's back in action. He's back in that detective mode. He's out of the fog. out of the sand dunes into the fire.

I'm going to say something controversial. Here's my like, here's my Charles Holmes hot take, which is I love Camille and Johnny. I've loved him for years and years and years and years and years. I think he's a wonderful comedian. I think he's so funny and fun. I think every time he shows up in something, it doesn't really feel like he's in the thing he's in. And I felt this with Eternals. I felt this with the episode of X-Files he did.

And I feel this here. It feels like, oh, here's Camel and Johnny. In a way that, like, Bill Burr did it. Like, when Bill Burr shows up in Mando, he felt like he was part of that world. Kumail just feels like Kumail wherever he goes is how I feel about him. So is he fun and funny? Yes. Does it take me out of this world a little bit?

It did. So that's my hot take, which is not meant to disrespect Kamel because I love him. But I don't know. It just didn't blend for me. In a way, is responsible for uniting. little Leah and Obi-Wan, but also for leading

Obi-Wan into the trap because he leads him to the spice den, which Obi-1 infiltrates and we get to see him in some turquoise here. This was thrilling for a moment. I had like some force usage questions here.

Maybe it's definitely possible that I'm missing something, but so I think that from the storytelling perspective, when he reaches out from the rooftop as Leah is falling and uses the force to stop her from falling to save her, it definitely feels like that.

It's not only the first time that he's using the force in these episodes, but in a long, long, long time, at least using it to that extent. Yeah. Even in this sequence, he does not use the force to open the door to get into the hallway.

He swipes the key card, right? He doesn't use the force when he's fighting. We get that great, like, ah, aching hand because he's using, he's just in a punching and kicking match and also is just, you know, out of peak fighting shape. He's very reluctant still to tap in. It's just been slicing meat.

in the desert Oh God I was like Did he use the force To get the potion To bubble Oh I love that you call it a potion I mean it's just drugs

I guess It's just blue meth Okay really quickly I want to say a couple things Number one I rewatched this sequence because you pointed this out to me It's not clear Like I just assumed he was using the force

But to your point is so much more powerful if he finally uses it in that moment when he has to after not having used it. So we see him eyeballing some like containers of spice.

We can't see his hands. And then the beaker explodes. The other thing I want to say is for folks who are making Breaking Bad jokes here, absolutely on point, right? Because Deb Chow directed episodes of Better Call Saul.

She poached Breaking Bad and Better Call Sull, editor extraordinaire, Kelly Dixon, who's the best, over to edit Obi-1 Canobi. The score that Natalie Holt does here is very Dave Porter, like the Breaking Bad. So they are absolutely a thousand percent doing a Breaking Bad Blue Meth homage here, which is a wild thing to do in a Star War, but I'm not mad about it. Catch up on Joanna and Ben's Better Call Saulpods over on the Prestige TV podcast, folks. Well, it was really fun because Kelly Dixon hosts the Better Call Cell Insider podcast. So she was talking about how Deb Chow was like drilling her for Better Call Cell information because she wanted spoilers. And she's like, I don't know, man.

I'm not on the show anymore. You stole me to do Obi-One. So anyway. Speaking of stealing people, he thinks he has found Leah, but he hasn't. It's again a trap. And Rievo was counting on this, his compassion being his downfall. we get this great exchange between flea. We're just calling him flea.

We're not using his character's name. It is what it is. He's flea. I love this idea because he's like, you're not a Jedi anymore, Kenobi. You're just a man and you're bleeding all over my floor. And Obi-1 says, well, everybody bleeds and then unleashes the spice bomb. I love that idea that here he could be leaning into the idea of a quote-unquote normal life,

as he puts it, not out of a position of fear, but because it provides perspective, really valuable perspective. like in some ways embracing that normalcy as a comfort for him. It's a mooring element for him. Like it's a way to distance himself from the hubris that so often misled the Jedi Order. It's a way to stay grounded. Also that move that he does there with the spice, that's a Walter White move. Honestly, Walter White has done that.

So good job. Love watching him work. Love watching him work. He does then find Leia. We get a great mirror image of her bending down in the hollow. and him bending down here. Wonderful stuff. She's so tiny.

There's just this like immediate, really precious rapport and energy between them. You know, he tells them that again, they have to change back into like the potentially more recognizable clothing.

And she sees his saber and she says, you're a Jedi. And it's like, shh, quiet. It's just, you seem kind of old and beat up later. She, when he says, my daughter, she says,

granddaughter maybe, he looks great. What's every? talking about anyway. When they're shopping, after the shopping, she asked why he's not using his lightsaber. She asked for his name and he says, Ben, and she says, it's not a Jedi name.

Well, that's my name. And again, those aspects of his self, the distancing, but also the flushing out. And this is where I think we have to talk for a minute about how we reconcile what happens here with Leah's hollow message in a new hope. How can we, how can we mesh all of this and the relationship they have?

with General Canobi years ago. You served my father in the Clone Wars. All right. So, okay. Number one, first thing I have to say is that the decision to put tiny little Leia in the great poncho, which makes us think of Return of the Jedi, absolutely loved that. Loved it. Secondly, I will say, the main explanation that people, I mean, this is a retcon pure and simple.

There's no way around it. If the retcon lands, we'll see how we feel about it, right? we're going to have to bend some logic to make this work. The way that we had to do in the original trilogy when George Lucas decided to change some things. Like this is a constant in Star Wars, right? Luke and Leichist. Yeah.

Let's keep that in mind, folks. But I've seen some explanations where people are like, well, he calls himself Ben. Maybe she never learns that his name is Obi-Wan. So she doesn't connect this guy named Ben, old Ben Kenobi with Obi-Wan. Except... She's a little too smart for that.

Plus, his name's on the band. Mountie Puck and everyone's going to be saying it across these episodes. In A New Hope, the Ben Kenobi moment when Luke finds her. Oh, maybe, but he also, Luke also after, here's my main issue. She sees Obi-1 Canobi in the hallway before he dies. She sees him. And then Luke says to Leah, I wish Ben were here is what he says to Leah. And there's no moment of mourning from Leah for this person who saved her.

it's all about Luke, sorrow here, and Leah has, like, no connection. So, like, there's just no way. There's zero way to make that hole. Unless they hit Leah, unless tiny little Leah gets hit so hard on her head that, like, we know why she has to wear space buns. It's because she's got, like, a permanent lump on her cranium for being hit on the head. I don't, I don't, there's no way to explain it. A C-3-P-L-level memory wipe. Yeah, get the memory wipe for the little girl, you know?

Like, there's no, you might, like, does, do the Jedi have, like, a men in black mind eraser, like, maybe? We'll see what they do at the end of these six episodes, but it's going to, it doesn't work. It doesn't really work. And that's okay. It's tough. I'm not mad about it, but. It is tough. I mean, you're making a great point about the lack of mourning or grief because, like, you could say, okay, well, maybe just with the message, she was rushing, you know?

Maybe she didn't know who it was when she made the message, but afterwards, no. When Luke finds her in her cell in a new hope, the way that she responds to Ben Kenobi, like with, you could read it as recognition. Maybe it's just excitement. But that actually makes it harder than to say maybe she doesn't know Ben Kenobi

and Obi-1-Kinovier are the same person. No. Like the smartest character in all of Star Wars? Let me tell you, after mere moments with you, the truth of your essence and nature. Yeah, it's tough. Obi-One can be? Are they cousins?

I don't know. I agree with you. It's like clearly a retcon and we'll see based on how successful and strong the show is, how satisfying it is. I do think that ultimately the retcon aside, and look, the more we add to Star Wars stories and the more we fill in the canon, the more things like this will happen with, you know, comparisons to the original stories. It does actually, other than the moment you pointed out, which is a show. blow. It does actually help to know, I think, that they have industry. Like, it's cool to think about that, share journey and the parallels that you've mentioned

between, you know, the evening for her and for Luke, that's good. I think for Obi-Won to respond to help me, Obi-Wan, Kenobi, you're my only hope from this girl that he once knew is stronger. For sure. He's like, let's go. There's just some other things. And Luke's like, she's hot. Let's go.

Oh my God. You know, the various versions of Ben Kenobi, not totally on the same page, and neither are the Inquisitor's very rough performance review from the Grand Inquisitor who has showed up on Dayou. He's pissed. This is where we get that line from the Fifth Brother. She thinks she will gain favor by capturing Kenobi favor with Vader.

What exactly is the relationship between Vader? and Riva? Is it a thirst for power and advancement? Is it something else? Really eager to learn more about that. This is where we get that gutter line and his insult casting some sort of light onto her backstory. She immediately ignores everything he says and goes full John Wick. Bounty Hunter alert here to try to smoke him out. And then watch us from the rooftop. That was a smart strategy because she does see the, the, the Blasterfire. She takes one of the most inefficient routes. It's unbelievable. Now, I was impressed by the movements. Like, this was just some amazing stuff to watch. She becomes a cheetah at one point. She's like a full cheetah and she still can't make it there on time.

This rooftop chasing, this, okay, I got to say, this is the roughest. This is the roughest thing for me, right? Because, like, it's very emotional. Like, Leia runs away. She's a kid. Like, I'm not mad about, like, her distress of, she doesn't know Ben from anyone. Like she's scared. Yeah. She runs away, all this sort of stuff. And it's a shift from, they have like these sweet moments of breakthrough. He says like good about Lola being hurt and then feels bad and says what happened to her anyway.

And we see that tenderness and like, oh yeah, and he fucking hates droids. So, you know, it's a nice moment for a movie one. It's one of my least favorite things about him. It's true. And then when she's like lamenting having to return, he says, now he was hiding something, princess. So that swing into her losing the trust when she sees his face on a bounty fuck. Now I was calling her princess.

It reminded me of the Max von Sito line. Like to me, she's always a princess. Like, I love that line. Anyway, the rooftop chase scene with love or respect to Kelly Dixon from the Breaking Bad universe. It's one of the most poorly edited things I've ever seen. It's so confusing. You can't track. where Riva is compared to everyone else.

Leah falls. He grabs her with a force. It's a beautiful moment. And then he's just downstairs. Down there. Yeah. What happened with Riva? What happened with the guy

was shooting at them? Like, what happened? So. Some of the... Choppy. Yeah. It was definitely chock. I had that same confusion

when he got down there because it's like he didn't like force jump or anything. He presumably walked and everything just happens very quickly. Also, like, I know our guy is Mr. So Uncivilized with the Blasters, but

the number of misses. This was, I didn't, I just actually didn't buy that. Like, so it's, it's prolonging this sense of danger and that was very, very strange, but the actual moment of reaching out with the force to save

Leia, what a, what a big breakthrough and a big change it is for him, the way that he's straining, the difficult work, how uneasy and unsure he is, because it's no longer familiar to him using the force. But he does it and risks revealing himself to others and connect back to this former life and this moment in time when he did trust himself.

And everything you just said, we are pulled back into the story because we then get the payoff of the moment of her saying to him, you really are a Jedi. And that recognition coupled with the nearby sequence with the Inquisitor where the Inquisitors, where the Grand Inquisitor says, this is no ordinary Jedi.

Knobe is the last. of a dying age, extinguish him. It's just really reinforced in tandem how rare he actually is, even though we're getting a reminder after reminder and will presumably across the rest of the season that he's not, you know, hardly the only one, right? And that's true. And rebels and elsewhere, it builds into this exchange with Haja where, you know, he, again, not a real Jedi, but is a real helper, directs them to this cargo port. And Obi-Wan hears him say, if I'd known what you were. And he doesn't want anybody thinking about that.

But the real key is that he hears, you're not alone, Obi-Won. And, like, he has to embrace the fact that he can find strength in partnership and teamwork again. I'm having, I was, I don't know if I'm, like, over-analyzing this. Please let me know if I am. But something I thought that was so interesting in this interaction is, like, so, Hasha is like a classic Star Wars archetype, which is like the rogue, the scoundrel, the like smuggler sort of thing, right? We don't really have that figure in the prequel trilogy, right? Like there isn't really a rogue comp in the prequel trilogy that I can think of.

Please interject if you think of one. Which makes me think that this is like an interesting like post empire figure, right? like after the empire rises, we get this like underbelly of the universe going. I mean, like, in Clone Wars, sure, but I'm just talking about like the prequel, those live-action films.

And I think it's a really interesting missing element from those movies. And so I was just thinking about like Obi-1's interaction with this character, a character type we have thus far in the live action, at least not seeing him interact with, and how his turn to the good here by the end, coming through when needed,

maybe puts Obi-Wan in a place where he knows exactly how to read Han Solo when he meets him, which is like, I've seen your type before. You're going to say a bunch of stuff, and then when we really need you, you're going to come through. You know. I can definitely imagine Hans standing in the alley and saying to Riva, you're as good as they say, no, Han would have been like, I'm out of here. And they had to come and flown back in at the last second. I think it's interesting.

I mean, maybe I've been thinking about Watergate too much because we've been covering stranger things. But I think this idea of like the fall of all these institutions, like the Senate, you know, being exposed as corrupt and the Jedi Council falling and all these institutions crumbling around them. And the Jedi being connected to the, those structures of power in a way that they never should have been. Right. And that's when you get.

this, like, cynical Han Solo-type figure, just as you did, like, in American politics, just as you were, like, right when George Lucas was making Star Wars in the first place. I don't know. It's kind of interesting. No, that is interesting, especially when it comes to, like, thinking about the other people that Obi-One might come into contact with. And we'll talk about this in Theory Corner in a few minutes, but, like, where Hajah sent him and to who? Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This sets us into the final sequence of the second episode in the double premiere, which is Reva confronting Obi-1 in the cargo port and telling him about Anakin. Maybe let's actually, so that we can just end here on the Anakin Vader reveal and the cut to him. Let's maybe hit the Grand Inquisitor death first and go like slightly out of order here. obviously the Grand Inquisitor interrupts this

confrontation between Reva and Obi-Wan and they have another argument and she stabs him in the gut and he appears to be dead. Now, where are you on this? Do you think that he is in effect dead and we will learn that there are like Grand Inquisitor clones and the character in Rebels is a clone of him? Or do you think he'll just be fine?

Maybe he'll get some mod shop. Benick-style pistols in his gut or a Bacta-Tang stretch or some other healing. Rebels begins four years after this, and he is one of the main antagonists in the first season of Rebels. So he lives through this. I think it's weird to have a fake-out death. I agree because this is a character who people know is around later in the timelines. It was bizarre. Very weird.

I don't have a good theory around it. Here's my only read on this. I think they just had to maybe get him off the board for a couple episodes, while he's healing so that Riva can move into the position of power. So that no one's there to be like, stop, Riva, you're too reckless. Yeah, except maybe the fifth brother should be like, okay, I'll listen now. Because if you rewatch the trailers, like a couple of the shots that are among the very few that we haven't seen yet are in that Fortress Inquisitorious, you know, the subaquatic

meeting room, and she's there, the fifth brother is there, the fourth sister's there. So she seems to be not only still a member of the team, but, like maybe in charge, temporarily at least. And like maybe this is a way to get us a glimpse of what her, again, like interactions with Vader who's overseeing the Inquisitors on behalf of Palpatine would be. That's the only way I can around my head around this choice because it is so strange to do this to a character we know is alive. Really weird.

I was like, why is this happening? And that's inside of a sequence that I generally thought was one of the highlights of the premiere, which is this moment of the reveal because as Obi-1 and almost just called her Padmae, which is fitting, Leah, walk into this cargo port, she's giving him this advice about like accepting help, right? Trusting other people.

And he's like quite literally stops in his tracks and is looking at her and says that he's struck by how she reminds him of someone who says, she was fearless too and stubborn. I'm not stubborn. Yes, you are. I'm not. Was your friend of Jedi to know she was,

leader. Boy, the juxtaposition of was she a Jedi, knows she was a leader, is fascinating to parse there. She died a long time ago, I'm sorry, me too. Now, I won't shock you to hear that I'm at least considering the possibility that he's thinking about the Duchess Sotene

here. We're not alone. We're not alone. He's not alone. But of course, this is also or fully about Padmay, and it's just so sad, not only the fondness and affection that he feels for Padmay reflecting on her, but he's talking to Leah about her mother, and she doesn't know that.

It was just heartbreaking. I think it's a Padme thing. No, no offense to the team. That makes the most sense for the layout. But like, yeah, given the, like, given all the Natalie Portman flashbacks that we've seen so far, given how interested they are in tying, like, Padme into, like, her influences on our kids and stuff like that, I think, I think this is real Padmei reclamation here. And, like, you know, if you haven't watched the Clone Wars, you should, right? But if you haven't, like, the friendship between Obi-Wan and Padme's may not be as forefront in your mind as it is for Foloni and everyone else who's running Lucasum these days.

And so it's just, it's important to remember that Obi-Wan loved Padme too. Yes, very much so. Third sister arrives and is singing his name. She says, I can feel you. One of my great dreams in life is to be able to be in the same room as you and McGregor and say, I can feel you. Okay. Okay. You and I don't have like the most common names, but like here's one usage of Joanna in pop culture is that there's a character in the musical Sweeney Todd name.

named Joanna. And there's like a beautiful musical ballad where he goes like, I feel you, Joanna. It's like this part of this like beautiful thing. And then there's like a creepy reprise. Anyway, I find the phrase I feel you to be completely creeptastic. So you can thank Steven Sondheim for that. Oh, God. That's fair. That's fair. Obie one is readying to use his saber here. Right. He has it his hand. we think it's time. We're going to see him activate the blade at last. But the cut comes not from the blade,

but from the reveal, Joanna Robinson. That's amazing. Riva says, your fear betrays you. You don't have to worry you're not going to die. Today, I'm going to take you to him. Lord Vader will be pleased. And then we get this, again, Obi-1 face cam here,

where his expression is just so harry. and she can feel his response. You didn't know he's alive, Obi-Wan. Anakin Skywalker is alive. He's been looking for you for a long time, and I will be the one to deliver you to him. Now, in mere moments, we are going to have Ben Lindbergh join us

and talk about how we wrap our minds around the questions that that raises. But for now, I will just say that the look on his face here, the labored nature of his breathing, the moment where he gets onto the ship with Leah, and they escape just in time, and he is panting and says only one word, Anakin, and we cut to Hayden Christensen, unmasked in the Bacta tank, and end this premiere on his signature iconic breath. That was so emotionally satisfying to me that almost nothing else matters.

Like we said, Ben's going to come and talk to us about the relative plausibility of this, but I think it's, There are some questions, for sure. This is, if we accept the premise, which is that Obi-1 lived 10 years without knowing any of this, okay, if we accept that as fact, this is on par with, like, Luke, I am your father. Anakin's alive, right? And I think it goes back to, it goes back to this really big question we need to ask around the arc of this, which is, like, how do we go from you or my brother to, uh, you know, your father's dead.

Lord Vader killed him, right? Or what does he say when he meets Darth Vader? The master of evil, Darth, right? Only the master of evil, Darth. Right? And so I think, and this is a question we had before him, but I think he's in a space right now where he's considering Padme's read, which is they're still good in him.

Right? Yes. So Anakin is a lie. And they're still good in that suit. They're still good in that puffy little body that's in the back to tank. There's still, Anakin's still in there. So is this Obi-Wan's journey to deciding that Anakin is dead once and for all? Heartbreaking.

Yeah, which he then tells Luke, and what he discovers here in these next four episodes in his encounters with Vader will determine that opinion for him and cement it for him. And it makes it all the more powerful when Luke takes up Padme's cause and says they're still good in him. Yes. What a devastating harbinger. Oh, my God. Does it make sense?

It does. Logically, let's find out. Okay. Spring on Ben. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch.

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Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris, now streaming on Paramount Plus. All right, he's here. Help us. Obie Van Lerbyn-Berke. I'm not the man you remember.

I'm not the man you remember. But I'll join you for one last podcast because we have a lot of canon implications to consider here. And Joanne, I'm missing our Better Calls-All pod this week. So it's nice to talk to you about another prequel series where we know almost everyone survives. You missed it. I did talk about Deb Chow and Kelly Dixon and the Breaking Bad. homage that we got in episode two. Does Riva know that Saul Goodman is Jimmy McGill?

That's the real question. That is the real question. Okay. So, why does Obi-Wan not know about Vader? That's the big question. And one thing to keep in mind is that while we think of Vader as the symbol or the embodiment of the empire, that's not the case within the Star Wars universe. That's the case within our universe.

But in the Star Wars universe, particularly at this point in the timeline, when the empire is not advertising its villainy in the way that it will later, the Republic had stood for a thousand years. So Paupe declaring himself emperor came as a shock to the system. So he didn't want to make it more of a shock by letting everyone know that two Sith lords are running the show, right? Especially because he's trying to convince everyone that the force users they know are traitors. So that'd be a bad look to have to explain we're force users too, but the different kind. So in the 2017, Darth Vader comic Palpatine tells Vader, in the three years since my ascension,

I have allowed a convenient fiction to persist, that the empire is merely an extension of the Republic. The imperial Senate remains an illusion of many voices coming together to govern. In truth, there is only one voice, mine. Now, this series, yeah. This series is taking place several years after that, but it still sort of applies because the Senate still exists. There's no Death Star yet using fear to keep the local systems in line.

And the Empire's reach hasn't extended as far as it did by the time of the original trilogy. And we can tell that because there's no garrison of Stormtroopers on Tatween seemingly. That one woman there feels bold enough to tell Riva, this is the outer rim. You have no rights here. We're not under the Empire's. Ow! You cut my hand off. So PR is still important to the empire.

So this, can I, sorry, can I just jump in and say it? Like, we've been talking about inquisitors and their concern about, quote, unquote, recklessness and how it seems sort of like out of character for the inquisers. But would you say that, like, we're still in a PR campaign? So Riva, you know, acting out the way she is, no, we got to play it cool because Palpatine wants to pretend that we're not scary mass murderers. Right. Trying to win hearts in mind.

here, or at least not kill all of them. That guy loves a long con. Yeah. So if you're trying to make nice and pretend that you aren't evil tyrants, Darth Vader is not who you want as your public face or your public helmet. So at this stage, he's not really a galactic celebrity. He's well known within the imperial hierarchy. He's admired by the rink and file because he always puts himself in the thick of the fight.

And he's known and feared by some enemies of the empire. though whenever he shows up to do Palpatine's bidding, he tends to kill everyone, which kind of keeps the word from spreading. So basically he's like an off-the-book's black op. He is like a secret weapon. Killing everyone who built the Red Keeps so they can't reveal the secret bass in ways. Right. So he's probably not leading the nightly HoloNet news. And even if he were, Obi-Wan wouldn't be watching because I doubt he gets great reception in the cave.

And the Jawa stole his HoloNet antenna. So he's on a remote planet. He feels responsible for Palpatine taking over. He's far away. I can totally buy that between being off the grid, guilt-ridden, cut off from the force, he would not know that the former apprentice he sliced up and left her dead is now running around as the emperor's fist, his top enforcers. So that said, there is one way in which I think it's sort of surprising that Obi-Wan

doesn't know. But to explain that, I have to go over just how. well-hidden Vader's identity is, even among the imperial insiders, which makes the Riva reveal a really big deal, actually. So early on in the empire, nobody knows who Vader is really except Palpatine. He just shows up and everyone wonders where this scary masked man came from. So in the first issue of the Vader comic, he goes into the throne room and the imperial guards start to attack him because they think he's a threat. And then an imperial officer asks him, do you have a rank? I'm not sure how I should address you? Do I call you Darth? And he's like, call me Lord. Okay.

Iconic. So in the canon novel Tarkin, which is set five years before Obi-1, there's a passage about this, how people are thinking of Vader. And it goes, it was that genuflecting obedience, the steadfast devotion to execute whatever task the emperor assigned that had given rise to so many rumors about Vader, that he was a counterpart to the Confederacy's general grievous, the emperor had holding in reserve, that he was an augmented human or near human who had been trained or had trained himself in the ancient dark arts of the Sith, not far off, that he was nothing more than a monster fashioned in some clandestine laboratory. Many believe that the emperor's willingness to grant so much authority to such a being heralded the shape of things to come, for it was beyond

dispute that Vader was the empire's first terror weapon. So there's a lot of rumor-mongering going around, who is this? And some of the imperial leaders actually try to assassinate Vader because they resent him. They're like, who is this mysterious dude who came out of nowhere and seems to have the emperor's ear and operates outside the chain of command? So after surviving some of those assassination attempts, right? Yeah. So he survives these assassination attempts, of course. And then Vader tells the emperor, you need to back me up here because they know I have strength, but they do not know I have power, is what he says. So. Wait. So, so Anakin slash Vader at some point was not happy with the support he was getting from his master? I'm shocked. They don't always get along.

No, it turns out. Sith, master and apprentice, not always on the same page. So the emperor gathers all the leaders, the military leaders of the empire and is like, I know there's been a bit of confusion about this masked monster who works for me. So let's clear things up. He says, this is Lord Vader. He speaks with my voice. A command from him is as a command from me. Pass this information down to your men, all must understand. But he doesn't tell anyone who Vader is. And he seems to prefer it that way. He thinks it's maybe more intimidating for that to remain a mystery.

And meanwhile, Vader is, of course, busy hunting down Jedi, so he doesn't really want it to be known that he was a prominent Jedi either. And we see him try to keep that secret. In the comics, he captures the Jedi Librarian, our best friend, Jokasta Nu. That issue is amazing. Yeah, she tells her clone guards, you're taking orders from a Jedi. This man is Anakin Skywalker, a Jedi Knight, and maybe they're about to order 66 him. And then Anakin kills all the clones.

And he says, this was your doing, you know, because you revealed the truth. I had to kill them. Presumably the clones who attacked the temple with him were told that this was an exception. He's a Sith, not a Jedi. Different things. Don't do order 66 on him. But you wonder, kind of, you know, did any of them make the connection once he shows up and he's still leading the 501st? I mean, you have to admit that the overhead shot of him striding in isn't as cool if he's doing it by himself.

Right. He needed that cares about him. The question is, who else knows? So in the Clone War season seven, Darth Maul seems to suspect that Palpatine is grooming. Anakin is his new apprentice. So he probably figures it out when Darth Vader shows up. inside that suit. Tarkin figures it out too. So here's another quote from that Tarkin novel. It says very early on in their partnership. Soon after both had been introduced to the secret

mobile battle station, Tarkin grew convinced that Vader knew him much better than he let on, and that behind the bulging lenses of his face mask, whatever remained of Vader's human eyes regarded him with clear recognition. More than anything else, it was those initial feelings that had provided Tarkin with his first suspicion as to Vader's identity. Later, observing the rapport the Dark Lord shared with the stormtroopers who supported him and the technique he displayed in wielding his crimson lightsaber, Tarkin grew more and more convinced that his suspicions were right. Vader might very well be Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker,

whom Tarkin had fought beside during the Clone Wars, and for whom he had developed a grudging appreciation. So he seems to know, possibly after this, later on, Grand Admiral Thron, who you mentioned, the super genius, he figures it out too, because he knew Anakin during the Clone Wars also, And so he put two and two together. And he sort of starts dropping hints about Anakin while he's hanging out with Vader.

And Vader thinks to himself, no, it was impossible. The relationship between him and the Jedi was one of the darkest and most impenetrable secrets in the galaxy. So again, that just highlights how surprising it is that Riva knows. Right, exactly. And even the inquisitors, yeah. With that quote you just shared, I just want to mention, like, so I'm reading Theron Alliances right now, the Thron Vader mission across. multiple timelines, Theron Anakin in the past, Thorn Vader, and the current timeline of that book, the way that Vader thinks of him, of his past life, he doesn't refer to himself

as Anakin. He calls himself the Jedi. And I'm so struck by that in terms of it fits with something Joanna's been talking about a lot across our last few episodes about this like separation internally and externally that these characters forge around the different aspects of their life. Right. From a certain point of view. Yeah. So even the Inquisitors as a whole, at least, don't seem to know who he is. Because in one comic, there's an inquisitor who turns traitor. And as she's about to try to kill Vader, she says, Darth Vader, after all this time, after all our work together, I really only know one thing about you.

You deserve this. And she, of course, doesn't kill him. But she doesn't know anything about him. So there's one other Jedi in the canon, Farron Barr, who knows about Anakin because he accessed the temple security recordings. But Vader kills him pretty early on. and he has a disciple who survives but doesn't tell anyone. So that's essentially it until Luke finds out from Vader himself.

And the galaxy at large, this is the really fascinating thing, doesn't discover the truth until 37 years after this series, Obi-1 Canobi, six years before the Force Awakens in the novel Bloodline, one of Leah's political opponents finds out that Anakin was Vader and that Leah is his son and tells everyone. And that revelation kills Leah's political career and also sends Ben Solo down the dark path because Leah and Han hadn't even told him their own son. They were like waiting for the right moment, you know, when do you have that talk? And as we know, that was a great parental decision on their part. Yeah, it worked out great.

Canonically great parents, Han and Leah. That like confusing state of affairs at the start of the sequel trilogy all kind of comes about because that secret finally got out after Anakin's been dead for decades. Now, here's the thing. The political opponent who reveals that knowledge, she finds out because she discovers a recording that Bale made for Leah, in which he tells her about her true parentage. So Bail learns the truth at some point.

Now, he's not there when Yoda and Obi-Wan look at the security footage, but he is there a little later when they're saying they have to hide the children from the Sith. and Yoda says send Luke to live with his family on Tatween. So he knows that Anakin was the father and that Anakin's gone. It would be weird if he didn't know that Anakin fell to the dark side, right? And he's pretty plugged into Imperial Affairs, so you'd think he would have heard of Darth Vader. I guess it's possible that Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't tell bail that Anakin changed his name to Darth Vader, in which case he wouldn't recognize the name.

but it's a bit of a stretch that they would not know. It felt like in the in-person cave exchange in this premiere when he says, you've made mistakes we all did. It's the past move on, be done with it. You couldn't save Anakin, but you can't save her. That to me felt like he, like he knew, just the way that he was saying that. Maybe. But like, he didn't.

Or he decided not to tell, no one decided to tell Obi-Wan. That's the thing, yeah. And like, was wild to me. And I'm not, I guess I could just be, yeah, you couldn't save him. It doesn't necessarily mean. And he knew that he fell to the dark side of the kid. I'm not mad about it, but like the whole implication of the end of revenge of the Sith is that Luke and Leah need to be hidden because Anakin is alive and Anakin is Vader.

Like that to me felt like the reason. I mean, I guess the emperor, if he knew that Luke and Leah were right, would go find them. But like it feels like... Hide him from Palpatine. Hide him from his dad. I guess maybe this better explains. why Obi-Wan was so dumb as to take him back to Tatooine and call him Skywalker. Right, yeah.

He didn't think Anakin is alive. Even if it's just Darth City is hunting, that's a really tough one. Yeah. Yeah, you have to wonder why didn't Bail pick up the bat phone to Obi-Wan at some point and say, hey, Darth Vader's alive. And maybe he would want to spare him that knowledge because he's suffering enough. But if he's going to call and ask him to go gallivanting around the galaxy to track down Leia, A heads up might be nice.

Listen, a heads up to Luke might have been nice from Roby Wan and a new hope. So maybe from a certain point of view, Bale is in the right. Yeah. So as for Riva, given all this context, it's pretty wild that she would know about this. So I think there are a couple ways it could have happened. One, maybe she was one of the Padawans that we see in the temple during the purge in the first scene. And either she hid and survived, but. witnessed what went on, or Vader saw some promise in her, spared her for some reason. Maybe they

have a relationship, and she's even a protege of his, because they both came from the gutter, right, unlike a lot of the imperial bluebloods. It seems like that from the gutter comment must refer to more than just having possibly been a Padawan in the past, because a lot of the inquisitors, including the Grand Inquisitor, were previously Jedi. Yes. So that wouldn't be enough. So it must refer to some other aspect of her upbringing. And of course, Anakin came from humble origins as well. So maybe they bonded over that. Or the other possibility is that she discovered this on her own somehow, maybe through the same archive search that revealed that connection between Bale and Obi-Wan. And Vader's pretty protective of those archives. Like in the

comics, there's a scene where the Grand Inquisitor is kind of, you know, browsing the library. And he comes in and makes him stop because he's worried about what he might find there. Maybe Riva uncovered something there, unbeknownst to Vader, but if she's thinking that she's just going to hand-deliver Obi-Wan and be like, look, Annie, I know you're in there. I brought you your old master. You're welcome. I don't think that's going to go great for her. Should we be worried about Riva? Not going to get an, are you an angel in response to that? No. Much as we are worried about Kim Wexler, I think we should worry about Riva because if she's, She thinks that's going to be her ticket to the top.

I mean, Vader might reward her if she were just to capture Obi-Wan, but if she lets on that she knows why he wants Obi-Wan so much, that could backfire because he really wants to keep this a secret. Wow, Ben, that was even by your usual standard, just spectacular. Thorough. Oh, my God. You are our Giacostanoo. Thank you so much. Thank you. I have just two follow-up questions.

or one's a question and one's, I guess, one of the things that I think actually helps this track. So, Obi-1 is super offline, right? Both in terms of just his life on Tatouine and also the fact that, as we've been talking about a lot today, he's completely shut himself off from the force. And so it tracks, I think, that he wouldn't sense Anakin,

but also that he wouldn't have heard anything about this, except for one thing. I'm having a little bit of trouble with this. I'm hoping you can help me. Okay. He knows about the Inquisitors. He tells Leia, when they ask, many were Jedi who turned to the dark side.

Now they hunt their own kind. True. It doesn't necessarily follow that he would know that Vader was like their day-to-day manager or anything like that. But that spoke to, and again, like the barkeep at the saloon knows who the Inquisitors are. So maybe the Inquisitors just have a level,

there's just a level of awareness about the Inquisitors as they're out hunting, there isn't about Vader, that would, that would be fine. I could buy that. But that was like a little bit of, I almost wish Obi-1 hadn't said that. Like, it just introduced a degree of confusion that I don't think we needed. So you're saying you feel like Obi-One really needed to get the Inquisitor flow chart to find out who the direct report was. I mean, that's, it's, oh, God. And then, okay, so here's the other thing I was thinking about. This actually really helped. me. And again, as I said, I just thought this was so emotionally impactful that I'm good. I think

this is all really interesting to kind of assess and parse Asoka. Asoka does not know. Now, there are moments where she's like sensing and feeling, but she, there's that one of the great shocks that I've had as a Star Wars fan is the sequence in Rebels where we realize that she, she doesn't know and that she's piecing it together. And that's after this in the canon. And Asoka, unlike, now, Osoca's, you know, in hiding and evading detection, but unlike Obi-1 is not, like, sequestered on a faraway remote planet, she's out there as fulcrum. She's a part of the earliest days of the alliance.

She's out there fighting. So if even she out there engaging in galactic affairs much more likely to have made a discovery like this for longer in the timeline didn't, then it helps me, except that Obi-1 wouldn't have known. And maybe that argues against the idea that we're going to see Asoka in this series, right? Because there was some speculation that maybe she is one of the operatives, one of the mysterious people who want to help, right? Well, this is our only theory corner item we have today, which is who is, is Hajah sending them to see? And Asoka's one of the only guesses. Cal, Kestis? I don't think it's going to be characters we know. I think it's new

characters, I think the last idea, which is like it's new characters that will feed into Andor. Yes. Yeah. That's what it feels like to me. That makes sense. Yeah. Because if Obi-Wan were to meet Asoka at this point, you'd think he'd probably mention, hey, heard about our old mutual friends.

It actually can't happen. Like, that would be, I don't think I could accept that he wouldn't have told her that. That would be like one bridge too far. Exactly. So as for how he could know about the Inquisers, but not about Peter. I mean, you would think that there would be some sort of Jedi survivor whisper network of some sort, like, we are getting hunted here. And clearly, like, the Jedi, the ex-Padawan who finds him in this episode seems to know where he is, right? I got the implication that he was

there because he was looking for Obi-Wan. He's someone who, I don't know whether you- But if there's a whisper network, he actively does not want to be a part of it. He's like, that's true. choke and die, Benny Safdi. I am not Obi-Won. I'm bad. Peace. I'm probably thinking that is he just happened to be on Tatouin and literally saw him. Just another strange coincidence of everything intersecting on Tatouine. Two of the very few surviving Jedi just happened to go to ground there.

Yeah, there was something. There was a line in that first scene in the saloon where the inquiscer says something about that made me think that the survivor was like looking for others to connect with. Like he's clearly like he's still in the fight, right? he wants to get the gang back together here. So my thought was that he's there because he heard something about Obi-Wan. And then, yes, he says, I saw you. I thought I saw you, right? So I thought he was there because he was looking for him as opposed to that just being

an incredible coincidence. But it could be either, really. If that were the case, if he were able to follow some red crumbs that led to Obi-Wan, that would make you think that other people have some way of contacting him other than bail and that they could get word to him, hey, their inquisitors going around. Because even if Obi-Wan wanted to be off the grid, like, that is relevant info for him. If his only purpose in life is to protect Luke now, you'd think he'd want to know that there's the inquisitorious that is devoted to tracking down people like him and like Luke.

So maybe he could know about the inquisitors. Maybe he just heard it, local gossip. Or, you know, you could hear about the inquisitors, but not hear about, as Joe said, you know, the direct report, the command. structure. Maybe people think Vader is just another inquisitor, right? It's like another angry guy with a red lightsaber, like, who can tell the difference. So I just don't know how Obi-1 could stay on top of any gossip since he talks to literally no one. He smells too bad. No one wants to, no one wants to spill the tea. They just want to spill some soap so that he smells better.

Oh, boy. Okay. So much to mull over. Thank you, Ben. Thank you for. always being an excellent lore master. I'm so excited to do another season of Star Wars TV with you. Me too. My pleasure. Okay, Joe, we've hit everything already in our chat today on Theory Corner, so we have no theories left on Theory Corner. Do you want to highlight one favorite Easter Egg, the Dune C.Ester Egg dig?

We've talked about many of these already. Do you have a face? There's not much I have left. I would just say, I guess, seeing C3PO, which the closed captions confirmed was C3PO. So there we go. It's a great one. That was lovely. One of the other ones that we haven't mentioned yet that I loved was hearing Bail in his chat with Leah mentioned the Purgles.

Because not only are they incredibly cool, hyperspace connected, Star Wars, Space Whale beings, they are intimately involved with the conclusion of rebels and everything that happens with Ezra and Thrawn. So that was awesome. Love that. That's my pick. Do you have a secret scroll for this one? Mine's flea. I'm just going to say it. It's flea.

It's obviously flea. Of course it's flea. And flee? We would have had to retire the bit if we hadn't both pickfully. I'm heartened right now. Okay. We have just a few minutes left for our mailbag. We will, of course, be continuing the mailbag across our OB1 pods this season.

So keep your questions coming every week. Jomi, you want to join us for the premiere bag? I am happier to be here than the third sister is to be on a team. That's what I can tell you. Boy. I love coming in and chipping in order I can. I don't, you know, go on and just take over podcasts, you know, like the third sister, you know, takes over, you know,

trying to find Obi-Wan. But, hey, two each their own. We're like, Jomey, it's reckless, reckless podcasting of you. You know, it feels up to me. We just do arcane pods, 12, you know, 12 times a day all year. Arcane and Clone Wars and Young Justice, right? And rebels. Joe.

You know what I'm saying? Just listen, we could pot about hair. I could pot about hair forever. But that time, that time will come. That time will go. But not this day. Our first question comes from Dan. And Dan wants to know, how has Obi-Wan's love life been over the past 10 years?

Is he inviting the women of tattooing back to his house? Or are they going back to her? place. I know he's hot enough to pull. Don't think I'm crazy, but I live in a cave, but this is a stretch. What do you guys think? Okay. This might be an unpopular opinion.

I'm going to say Obi-1 has been getting nothing for 10 years, but I'm going to say, but maybe that's why he moves into a house between now our new hope. I'm not ready to say that he is completely sold it for 19 years. The cave was just covered in his ejaculate from all of his masturbation. Jesus cry. Rock cable wonders. Like, no, I think he's I think, you know,

I think he's single, like, he's laser focused on his mission. And then after this series, this series is going to relax a little. You're like, you know what? I could have nice things. I could date a little.

You know, it'll be fine. What do you guys think? Let me just say, I don't think that this is a stretch. I think if anyone saw him, they'd be like, I'm in. This is great. I actually think, I like to think,

I like to think that he is, you know, having a pretty, pretty routine interactions of the intimate sort. I think that he clearly seems very lonely. And while I don't think that he is forging emotional bonds, and I find that tragic, right? And I hope that he rectifies that. I think that our guy needs a little release. That seems clear to me.

He needs a release. And I like to think that he's finding it. It's ridiculous to me that you think that Obi-1 is hidden and quit on Tatween. Like that is not. There's just no way. Swings by the canteener for a drink. No. Tell me what's your take?

Look, the man has got to be undercover. He's got to be incognito. And there is nothing incognito about going around and, you know, getting busy on a planet. You know what I'm saying? Why? People start talking like, hey, man, hey, you know that a dude, you know what I'm saying? But it's not like he's using the force to stimulate his partner during foreplay.

He's just like out there having a little sex. What's wrong with that? So peek into Mallory's specific dreams. Listen, people start talking. And all of a sudden, you the dude from the cave that comes around slinging his thing every so often. You know what I'm saying? And you start to raise questions that, you know, you don't want answers to.

You want to tell me you think that you and McGregor can go around going full charm offensive with the flash in the pearly whites twinkling the eyes and stay under cover? No, no, no, no, no. Listen, maybe that's why he's so sad. Yeah. It's because he's not getting any.

My actual sincere answer, given that he doesn't interact with anybody as far as we could tell. Except for his Jawa. Yes, except for Jawa and his ovi is that he is not engaging in any sort of meaningful interaction with another person. But in 10 years, you really don't think he's had a night or two where he just needed to feel the touch of another person. No? I mean, he did it in the Jedi order for how long?

I know. He was already a monk. He and Satin were very intimate with each other. And if you listen to any of the Rigger's Live show on this feed, you can hear about my spin-off idea, the Duchess of Manda Harbourn. hardcore our first NC17 Disney Plus show. I have regrets about insisting that we do this question. Now, there's what I believe to be true in that what I want. Tell me, please be very careful about how you phrase this next question.

Oh, dear. Oh, God. This question comes from Zach. And you need to be very clear. We're talking about, you know, the tool every Jedi uses. Yeah. You know, they're sacred, the tool of the fire sword, the lightsaber, nothing extraneous. Let's get our minds out of the gutter.

All right. This is a family-friendly podcast. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Is it? Children are listening. Children, the children, like. The thing that Charles thinks is sharp.

Shout out, Steve. Comes from Zach. How many times do we think Obi-Wan ignites his lightsaber? Gonna set the over-under at 3.5. I mean, we only have four episodes left.

We know he battles Vader at some point, right? Yeah. That's one. But here's the question. Do you think he's going to have a battle that he loses that leads to him being taken there? Do you think there's a chance that he would willingly submit because he wants to see

Anakin? I'm taking the under. I'm taking the under on 3.5 too. That actually feels high with and that wouldn't count multiple ignitions inside of one fight. Yeah, one fight. Yeah. One fight equals one. I'll take the over. I'll say four. I think the first time we see him ignite his sabres when he's fighting Anakin for the first time. Yeah, but is that the finale or is that sooner. He still has to get back to Tatouine and be able to live the rest of his life as a recluse.

It's wild that in two days we will be... No and only to all the women he's sleeping with on Tatouine is old. Allegedly. Allegedly. In two days, we will be halfway done with the Obi-One-Kadobi series. Wild. That makes me really sad, actually.

Wild. Boy. Having so much fun. Our next question comes from Josh. Should Timothy Oliphon be the next High Inquisitor if this turns out to be a spinal tap drummer situation? Okay, let's say for sure why this is not the case. Because are we saying in a spinal top drummer situation that it is like the same character with a different actor or at least the same like species in design? Because if that's the case, you will never see me advocating for Timothy Oliphant to lose his hair.

No. Absolutely not. Frankly, unthinkable. And like not, I mean, like, even Fifth Brother has to wear a stupid hat. So, like, I don't know. The Inquisitors are not. Reva's got pretty good hair, right? But, like, everyone else has dumb, bad hair and the Inquisitorious ranks.

So I would say no. I mean, I've been on the record. I think the Grand Inquisitor, you know, is a bit of a mark, you know, I'm saying. But, you know, at least you keep their head, you know, real shiny and bald, you know, I'm saying. He's not really worried about. the hair care. He just get up in the morning, you know, wash his face. You know, when he wash his face, he really just like keep going on the way back. Get to the back of his head. Timmy needs the locks. Yeah. He needs the goate. It's just not a fit. It's not a fit.

All right. Our last question comes from Maddie with Thundercat and Now Flea. Which musician cameo would you want to see next? Oh. Hmm. I got, I got mine. I got mine. We choked about a little of the Midnight Boys, but it's got to be Kendrick Lamar, right? He's got to be like some sort of profit, and we need to be like, Ben Kenobi can light a saber, but he is not your savior, you know?

Anakin can pod race, but he is not your savior. Right? It's, it's what we need. You know what I'm saying? Joe, you're a music lover. You're stalling. So you thought he's thrown at me. Joe, you like music.

Listen to is from the like the 60s. I don't, I don't know. But like, don't you think like a Keith Richards could show up in the Star War as like some other melted candle of a character? He, like Palpatine's cousin who's also a melted candle. Oh my God. That's my, that's my, that's my bid. That's a great one. It's almost always connects.

It's either always like going to be Dylan or it's going to connect to. to like a soundtrack from something I've been covering. So like, it was like when I was rewatching Lost at the beginning of the pandemic, Chiquino. Mama Cass was like in my top five. And when we were doing binge run Marvel, like father and son was my number one most listen to song of the year. I just, I just, I usually have, have something like that going. You know what?

I'll say Dylan. Why not? Great. Let's get Dylan into Star Wars. I love that Dylan was your answer first or things prompt and it's your answer here. You're consistent. I ended up switching to Billy Joel technically. Oh, that's true.

So I think, and by the way, Adam told me he said he wouldn't have, he wouldn't have picked that as the song to pull me out. What would Adam have picked for the song to rescue from the upside down? He said, quote, I would have picked something from Dylan or girls just left. Okay, you hurry here first. Cindy Lopper, Cindy Lopper and Star Wars. Let's go. Let's get it. Let's do it.

Cindy and Star Wars. Jomi, what song brings you? We're almost done here. We're going to wrap up this podcast, I promise, but I need to know. Jomey, what song will bring you back from the upside down? Wow. There's a deep cut that like I just, I, we don't have time books playing on the pod. But for, you know, simplicity's sake, I think.

it would have to be honestly any future song Draco you know anything off Dirty Sprite 2 you know like you play some future I'm back baby like let's get it I just need to know how to bring you all back from the upside down if I if it is required

Draco says in the book bag Red Jack got a little kickback I'm back I'm here Let's go Excellent can't lose you Jomey can't lose you I love it Boba Fett can train her Boba Fett can train our anchor, but he is not your savior. You can hear more Stranger Things thoughts on our House of Our Stranger Things Breakdowns.

Do it back in. All right. Any final thoughts before we go? No. I think we did. Guess what? I think we did every single line and corner from these two episodes. We did it.

And I'm really proud of us. The light is an unforgiving place for this pod. So that's a wrap on today's episode. Thank you to our Jedi. Masters. Steve Allman for producing this episode. Or Juna Ram Gapal for his additional production work on this episode. And Jo Miedineron for his work on the social for this episode.

And of course, thank you to Ben Lindbergh for joining us. Please tune back in for our Stranger Things finale pod and then ride Yorope right back here for the Midnight Boys instant reaction to OB1 Kenobi Part 3 and the House of our Part 3 deep dive. Until then, remember, there will be some. sweet mallows at the reception after, if we behave. Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But real doesn't start on a label. It starts at the source. Like real California milk from California farm families,

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