The Ringer-Verse - 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' Season Finale Instant Reactions and the Miles Morales as Thor Backlash | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

Van, Charles, Jomi, and Steve are all here to give their takes on the wildly anticipated season finale of 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' (05:58). They also discuss the final act for Reva and may come next (40:02). Later, They also discuss the backlash to a controversial issue of 'What If ... ?' featuring Miles Morales as Thor (70:45). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From the host that brought you to Coding Westworld. And Westworld, the recapables. Comes the Ringer Prestige TV podcast on Westworld. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Danny Hyfitts. And I'm David Shoemaker. Welcome to Westworld Season 4 in the Prestige TV podcast feed, where we're going to break down every episode of Westworld season four.

Every Monday, the day after the show comes out on the Prestige TV podcast feed. Wherever we get your podcast, but get them on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's Disease or all, ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimfaya,

proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com.

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver

problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. the ringer verse this is of course the ringer's nexus podcast fee for all things fandom we are chomby the explainer on you've got questions he's got answers we are steve almond joy the cuddly summer bear we are old man van he of the receding headline and we are co-baby chuck the 24-carric closer together we are known as of the midnight boys oh my programing remodics okay this thursday joanna will be

joined by me, Van. Steve, this makes no sense. I am Van. Yeah. Me, Van. To give our reactions on the third episode of Miss Marvel. Miss Marvel, which the MCU community is loving, right? Watch it, everybody.

Everybody is loving Miss Marvel. And it's not as if these fandom communities are made up by racist incels or anything like that. That's surely not the case, right? It's surely not the case that having a character out here and a really fun show to watch, episode two was good, not great, but a fun show to watch, very fun show to watch,

isn't exposing how some of you are fucking pathetic. Speak on it. Grow up. I'm sick of having this conversation with you guys. I'm sick of it seems like to me, a lot of you take down your Tony Stark poster and under it is a Confederate flag. not playing nice with you guys

grow to fuck up how about that now House of R will return the adults in the room Joanna Mal will be now

Joanna will be back to give you their deep dive on the season finale of Obai Wan Wait can I ask you a quick question Because you keep calling Mal Mall How good would a podcast

Between Mal and Mall formerly from the Joe Boat podcast First of all, you don't have to say formally from the Joe Button podcast because Maul has his own podcast. New Rory and Maul. So why would you say. Because I don't know the Joe Bud and weird. I'm like, I don't even know these people in real life. Shout out to my boy, Rory. Shout out to my boy, Mall. They ain't formally of nothing. They are currently on the new Rory and Mall podcast. Boy, I tell you what, Charles. Charles Holmes formerly of Rolling Stone, nah, you work at the ringer.

I am formally from that place. What's wrong? Nah. You don't want to, ain't no for, the formerly of TMZ. Nah, I worry at the ringer.

We don't all leave TMZ. Like, like, I still got people over there. It's fine. Whatever. Shout out to them. Shout out to.

You like to burn bridges and watch them burn. I haven't burned any bridges. Shit, they burned a bridge. Anyway. That's what I'm talking about. I'm still a little bit.

I'm still a little bit. And on Sunday, I am really excited for this, no doubt about it. If we could ever get through, program and remind us without joking. So we have so much fun. And on Sunday,

Mint Edition returns to give their thoughts on season three of the Umbrella Academy. You guys, I love the Umbrella Academy. Wow. It's a very, very fun show for me. And it's something that we probably, if we had not had

one of the best new podcasts and fandom, which is Mid Edition, we probably wouldn't have been able to cover it. I am so glad that on the Ring of us, somebody is covering it. I really enjoy the Umbrella Academy and for some reason Steve and Jome

are not super excited. Oh, we got excited. We have some thoughts. What? I had, God, damn. I had so much fun.

No, you want to know what I love? It was a great season of television. To a point. There has, there is the discussion to See, C, C, C, here's the thing, Van. Let's be real. Jomey and Steve on The Midnight Boys like to pop in and out, like to be the good guys. When they are in addition, it's easy to be Coke, baby.

It's easy to be the Coke, baby. You know what I'm saying? So, just, hey, like, guys, stay by your takes, okay? I want you to stay by your takes. My feet are planted, buddy. I'm just saying. I can't wait for the pot. Oh, no, we're getting into it.

People will be, things will be revealed to the audience. you guys haven't really nobody does this by the way you guys haven't you guys should do that by the way three two one there we go your rhythm's off your rhythms off Steve that makes

yeah I'm on once and threes you know it's the light skin it's all right on today's show we're going to be taking a look at the season finale of Obi-Wan Canobe and as well we're going to be discussing Thor in the hood Thor

as guardians in the hood why they do us this God. We're going to be talking about the controversial Miles Morales-Morales-S-Thoreau crossover, which it shouldn't be controversial at all. But we're going to discuss it. We're about five minutes in.

We got to discuss it. It'll be one, baby. Before we get into this, even though you guys are listening to a reaction podcast, you still need to be babied. And so we'll baby you right now with the spoiler warning.

Go ahead. We're getting it. Being ready to talk about General Canovi. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Yes, they are, but before they come, we have to make sure that we are in the no for this season finale of Obi-Wan.

Another way we can do that is having Charles bring us up to speed with the Midnight Manifest. Guys, this is the final. Midnight Manifest for Obi-Wan Canovi. Part 6, directed by Debrae-Chani. Now, story by Stuart Betty, Jovi Harold, and Andrew Stanton. Tell played by Jovi Harold, Andrew Staten, and Jose Amini. We start.

Riva shows up on Tatouin looking for Luke. Alokaharns Owen about Riva, and along with Beiru, they hide Luke away in a space seller and decide to defend him from Riva. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan, Leia, and the path are being chased by Vader and the Empire. Obi-Wan decides the only way to buy enough time for the path to escape is to lure Darth Vader away in a ship by himself. Obi-Wan lands on the planet to phase Vader. he finds Lola in his pocket, which Leah seems to have hidden there to give him some strength

that he desperately needs. The duel is pretty evenly split until Vader uses the force of bury Obi-Wan under a pile of rocks. Obi-Wan uses memories of Luke and Leah to give him the power to lift up the rocks. Then the tide of the duel begins to shift as Obi-Wan uses a barrage of those rocks to hurt Vader before damaging the life support system that helps keep him alive. Obi-Wan then walked away from the duel, realizing that he's lost Anakin forever. On Tatooine, young Luke is chased through the mountains by Reeva, but the third sister has a

change apart without killing the boy, when she realizes she's no better than Anakin during 4 to 66. Reva brings back an unconscious loop to Owen, Beiru, and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan returns to Lola to Leaha, and their bond is cemented forever. With everything settled, Obi-Wan reconnects with Ben and is introduced to Luke for the first time, and we get to hear that iconic line, hello there. As Obi-Wan travels into the desert, he finally meets Quigon's Forest Coast, and everyone lives happily ever after until a new hope,

the end. Now that that's out of the way, let's get it. Let's get to the main event. Like, like, whoa, whoa. Charles is hot right now. Whoa. Like a virgin on prom night, Charles, you at least got to kiss a little bit first, bro.

Come on, man. What the hell is going on? Okay. We've just walked into the Motel 6. Be a gentleman. All right. Can we get to get we stop? Instant reactions. Let's go. Jomi.

I like this episode of television. Yes. I thought it was cool episode of TV. Steve. It offered some of the highest highs and most frustrating lows of this entire season. Should I go first, Charles, or should you go first? No, you go first. I'm going to let you go first. Fucking fantastic. I don't even know what the low lows are really considered. I thought it was amazing. I thought they did some things that Star Wars.

I think, I think, as I stutter through excitement, I think that I got a feeling in this episode, watching certain things that happened in this episode that I haven't had in Star Wars in decades. Remember, I'm old. There's a Star Warsian feeling that creeps up through your body, right? A Star Warsian feeling where all of these things come together and create this perfect moment of hope, despair, longing, and anticipation.

And that's what Star Wars is, right? Luke is on Dagobah. He's going to go back. He's going to help his friends. You know he has to. You're hopeful that he does it, but you know that he shouldn't. And you're like a little baby. Like a little baby.

You're tucked in and you want to get out, but you're tucked in. Had felt that way in a while, to be honest with you. And there are moments in this episode where I felt this. way. I thought it was perfect at some of the best Star Wars I've ever seen. I make no apologies. Charles, what do you think? Jomey, Steve, do you guys got a, got like a pen and pad? I want you all to take down my KFC order because my ass about to snitch, okay? Late at night, your boy, your boy's getting ready for bed, okay? I live on the East Coast, and I get a phone call from my bud, one of the most important people to me in this world, Mr. Van Lathan, okay?

Van Van Picks stuff He got to add to you out. Like I know he's been talking to all the midnight boys trying to get us pumped for tomorrow. He's like, yo. Not trying to get pumped. I was scared. And I called every single member of this podcast.

Every single member. He did. He did. Yes, he did. He's selling me. He's like, all right, yo, like, Chuck, don't fake the funk. You got to be real.

If this shit is mid, you got to be real. Don't do, da, da, da, da. Like, one out of ten. Is this going to be good? This is going to be bad. And I'm like, damn, like, really Van is worried and, like, my man Van is trying to tell me like,

I got you, Charles, we got to be real about this. So for you to get on this podcast today after, like, really, what are you talking about? Really, like, hyping me up being like, we got to be real about this. We got to be real about this. For you to say this is perfect TV, come on,

man. Like, this was good, like, to Jomey's point, there are good points in this TV show. But you cannot tell me some of the choices, the non, the non-Obewan Darth Vader choices, are perfect. Like, come on. Like, then, like, really?

Really? So, let me tell you something. What is a perfect? What is a perfect choice? What is perfect? Perfect isn't execution perfect is feeling? Because when we're talking about story. Okay. No, don't know. No, no, no. You back. Can I finish making my point? I'm not back doing at all. Finish.

That's what Derell Reve is dead. I don't backped him. This is what I'm saying. I can't tell you what perfect execution is because the story is the story itself. Like, when we talk about perfect execution, I mean, are we talking about from a structure point? Because to me, I didn't see anything structurally wrong. What I saw, to be honest with you, was some really important moments between the character of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker that filled in some emotional beats that, to me, make perfect sense within the continuity of Star Wars canon. perfect sense within the continuity of Star Wars canon, right? Like, after Obi-Wan leaves, I'm just going to talk about that one scene.

After Obi-Wan leaves-Wan-W-Dade. What did I say? I said non-O-B-Wy-Wan Vader, because I know that a lot of people are excited. Okay, not-O-B-W-W-W-W-Texam. We're talking about everything around this episode. Talk about everything around it then. Like, seriously, let's get into it because this is what we do on this podcast, because I'm riding hard for Obi-Wan-B.

So here's the thing. All right, I have to do it. what the fuck is going on with Riva at the end of this episode guys Riva is and I'm sorry to say this the Riva character is the biggest albatross

of this entire series of but here's the thing that's 50% of the episode I wouldn't say 50% damn here is Riva going whatever percentage 40 30

going to Tattoin to hunt down Luke the Ben fight at the at the farm was just some of, just kind of honestly, not great stuff I've seen in Star Wars in terms of just execution.

And then for her to chase down Luke, and then now realize, after everything we've been through, am I just like Anakin, killing kids? I'm like, yo, Reva, you didn't realize that when Vader was snapping kids next?

A couple of episodes, like, what are we doing here? Like, that to me, if we're talking about a perfect episode, You can't have a perfect episode of TV when the villain we are supposed to care about has a nothing plot where I felt absolutely nothing.

I was just like, can we please just get back to the main course? Please. Let me tell you what my pushback is. Did you enjoy the duel of the fates lightsaber scene? In Phantom Menace, yeah. Yeah, you enjoyed it, right? Yes, third.

You realize that during this duel of the fates of lightsaber battle, they keep cutting away to, what I consider to be a pretty waxing, which is the Battle of Naboo and everything that's going on. It's pretty... Steve, jump in.

I'm kind of like firmly on a flipped coin between Charles and Yuvan with how great this episode and how frustrating this episode can be. And I think it's to that point because it's the fact that we are getting probably some of the most enthralling and emotionally

cathartic moments that Star Wars can give us, and then it is being interrupted constantly by something that we are continuously not caring about. And here's all. But see, the point is amazing. Do all the face is amazing. But I'm not going to get on a podcast and be like, yeah, a Phantom Menace was a perfect movie.

Because like, here's the thing. There's much more Phantom Menace than just, you guys are missing. My point is this, how bad would the Riva stuff have had to have been to take. away from the kinetic energy of this episode and I don't think it was bad enough. But you said that this

episode is perfect which I'm like perfect. Once again, once again, when I say perfect I mean, I'm talking about the feeling. There are very few things that are created in art that are perfect, right? I love Inception. It's not perfect. Okay? I love there will be blood.

It's not perfect. It's pretty close. It's pretty close. It's pretty close. It's not perfect. But it is, it is, it is, it's pretty close. It's pretty close to perfect, right? So,

so, like, I love No Country for Old Men. It's not perfect. But as long as the, the dramatic energy of the best parts of your movie are able to be maintained without interruption

and destruction by the movie's worst parts, to me, the best parts of the film or the song, whatever it is, like, they went out, right? And to me,

I think the, I think the worst parts are actually elevated, to be honest with you, by the best parts of what's going on. Because when Obi-Wan comes to Riva at the end, the scene isn't without meaning. Like, it's not without meaning. I didn't, it kind of works.

But did you feel anything? I didn't feel anything. I think the whole thing is, like, we've been talking about the Riva thing for a long time. So I think it's a symptom of the entire series, really. Whereas Darth Vader Obi-Wan, you know, we got a little bit in episode three, but episode six,

like we get the whole meat and potatoes, right? We get the entire, you know, them realizing like, this is it. Like, we're really not boys no more. Like, it's over, over. And so to Vance point, that's where the emotional stakes lie. That's where, you know,

it hits home in this episode specifically. We're talking about the Rieber thing for like five weeks now, right? At this point, right? So, you know, when it's not hitting, we know it's not hidden. It's a man at all. But this

Obi-Wan, this Anakin, that was what you came here to see and it delivered. I will say this, if I'm going to be positive. One thing I do love about Obi-Wan as a character

is that I think the reason he's most people's favorite Jedi, maybe not mine, but most people's favorite Jedi, is that he's the rare character in the series who has these powers. Who's like,

every fight that, Obi-Wan is in, he should not be winning. If we're being real, Phantom Menace, he should not win against Starth Mall. There is nothing telling you as a character that, like, he should be powerful enough to take somebody down who just killed his master. He does it. When you watch Clone Wars and he's going off against Mall and Savage at the same time, you're like, there is no way Obi-Wan is going to get out of this.

But because of who he is as a character, the grit he has, the determination he has, the way he uses his brain, you're always like he's going to find a way, whether that's grievous, whether that's Assange. That's what I love about him deep down is he's not Anakin. He's not the chosen one. He doesn't have these powers. He doesn't have this mid-chlorian count

that is going to make him so powerful. So that's when he wins. That's why you feel for him. That's why I love the previous episode with their duel. Because I'm just like, that tells you so much about who he is as a character.

I liked the Vader and Obi-Wan fight to a point. I will say the thing that I brushed up against. There were cool moments It's when Obi-Wan is using the force and lifts up all those rocks. I'm like, God damn, this is the man. I love you, Obi-Wan. Loved it. When he slashes Vader's face and you see Hayden Christensen revealed, loved it.

The thing about the fight that I brushed up against visually is that it didn't really seem iconic. It almost seemed like it was for TV in a little bit. It is for TV. Yeah. But here's the thing. To me, Star Wars is cinematic. Star Wars is, if you was like, to choose one movie that shows you the power of movies, you'd be like Empire Strikes Back.

This is literally what movies are supposed to be. And when they were fighting, I didn't get that iconic feel that I get when I watch Obi-Wan and Anakin on Mustafar. This planet just seemed like kind of a play. Like, this just seemed like something that would have been on Earth. It seemed a little bit small, even though the emotions. that were paying off were so big. And I do think those were handled well.

And am I being a hater? No, you're not being a hater at all. You're not being a hater all. But you are being weird. Weird? In what way? Because let me explain to you guys why. All right.

I let all you motherfuckers talk, and it's time for me to filibuster again. Van filibusters. Van Buster. Van Buster. Van Buster. Van Buster. That's a good new nickname. Van the Buster.

Van Buster. Number one, A couple of things. It is a television show, right? It's a television show, and because it's a television show, it's going to be very difficult to capture the scope of what we see. Steve, what? Mandalorian is also a television show, though.

It's completely... Speak on it, Steve! Speak on it! But there are differences, though. Yeah, one looks really good and the other doesn't. But the reason... But to me, though, to compare Mando and the way things are happening in a Mando, By the way, there are definitely times

when Mando looks like a television show without a doubt. But during the most important parts? The difference, and by the way, Mando doesn't look like a film to me. It looks like a really well-produced television show, right? I would agree. That's what it looks like. Here, I think this show is a lot more personal of a show than Mando.

Like, I really do. I think this show has, I think we're, I wouldn't say that we're paying attention more. I would say we're hanging on every word more because Mando is a character that we never see his face. He's plopped into this world. Things are happening around him, it seems like, more than they actually are to him.

And we have a cute little distraction in a character that we never got to know before in Grogu, right? In this, when, when Obi-Wan and Lair are, walking through what we all know is calabasas, right? And when they're walking through them, like, because I'm looking at human characters, this is really the way I feel about it. By the way, there's not, this is not, does not say that what you guys are saying isn't right.

It's saying that I've actually punted on that. I've accepted that as part of what's going on. If we're being real, when Vader stops the ship in the last episode, that looks fake. Oh, that was not good CGI. Like the ship, the ship looks, the ship looks fake. It doesn't, it doesn't look great. But at this point, I've adjusted expectations based upon the fact that this is a television show. I will say that the emotional stakes of this lightsaber battle, to me, I wasn't even paying attention to the scope and the scale of the show.

Not at all. At points, you can tell that it's a television show, of course. But the scope and the scale of it, to me, were far outweighed by, number one, the choreography of the battle, which was fantastic. Number two, the force feats that were that were being accomplished by the two characters, which were wondrous. And then number three, the emotional stakes of what was happening. I'll say something else about Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I actually pushed back on your assessment of Obi-Wan Kenobi. And I think that the more you sort of study the character of Obi-Wan-Kan-Kinobi, raw force power is one thing in and of itself, right? But Quigone lost to Darth Maul because he was getting older. Like he was at that point 60, 61, 62 years old, right? And a lot of the ways that he used the force and the force form that he fought in, he couldn't keep up with Maul anymore because Maul was just straight up too athletic, too primed.

And he was getting old, that fight went on for a long time. And Quigone ran out of gas. Quigone, maybe at an earlier time, might have been able to deal with him. Number two, Obi-Wan is actually, I think part of this show shows you the skill of Kenobi because he's actually able to, as a defensive lightsaber duelist, use a lot of his enemy's dark side obsession against them. He represents this sort of fortress of the light to where he might not be able to attack you with his goodness, but he can almost defend anything.

thing with it. And I think the fact that he got stronger throughout this season, the more people he had to protect is a testament to the fact that what Obi-Wan really needs, he needs a cause. He needs something to fight for. And that brings out the best in him. He's at his most powerful when he's defending somebody or something. You know what I mean? So to me, I think part of seeing Obi-Wan Kenobi at the end of this become a more powerful version of himself than we had probably potentially seeing him on screen before. I don't remember seeing Obi-Wan. I remember seeing him get dused up by Duku, right?

When Duku, at least in live action, right? Because the Clone Wars is kind of a different situation. But I remember him seeing get dused up by Duku twice, you know? But in this, I think he has had some time to understand what his true purpose is, and it's kind of like a Neo at the end of the Matrix moment. And it would make sense that he would have it in front of Vader. And the last thing I'll say is, Vader in this fight is understanding his limits.

Because when the emperor is talking to Vader at the end of this episode, the emperor indicts Vader on whether or not seeing Kenobi weakens him. Because of the feelings that he might have and the connection to the light that he still might have, he might be a weaker version of himself when he fights Kenobi than he is when he's fighting anyone else. And we know that to be true because eventually he just straight gives in to Luke a boy who he never really met

but who he knows is his son and has a connection to him in the force. So it's like we realize that Vader, he's evil, but his power has limits and it's limited it by Anakin Skywalker who's still rattling around in there somewhere. Having said that,

Obi wants you to kill him. I'm not a bullshit. That's what I want to talk about where if we take the fight out of it, the thing that was frustrating me about this last episode is that when Hayden and McGregor are on screen together, they're electric. I still think that they do have this brotherly bond

that's like love and hate. I feel like you needed more from them throughout this season to make this fight make sense because at the end of the fight, Obi-Wan realizes he's like, this isn't Anakin anymore. Anakin says I'm not Anakin anymore. I'm Vader.

At that point, Obi-Wan walks away and I'm literally like, you, I realize for canon reasons, you can't. But motherfucker kill him. Like, Obi-Wan is like legit, like, he could have ended the empire right there. Like, what? That's tough.

That makes no logical, like story right there. I don't know if it would have ended the empire. I mean, it would have been hyperbo. beginning, yeah, that would have been certainly the beginning of the end of the empire because, you know, we still know that Sidious on the side was, you know, training Mara

Jade and, you know, no, he wasn't because they took away everything that I love. So, let's guy re-litigate the EU. She might actually not have been born by then, but at some point he starts training him. Maybe when Lou is a little older. I think it's weird to, you know, slide a television show for looking like a

television show. Like, that's what television shows do. You know what I'm saying? But at the same time, I think part of the, bro, if you bring up agents of shield By the way, Marjay definitely wasn't born before the Star Wars nerds gets on. Right. Yeah, yeah. But let's be real, Disney Plus was marketing this as a limited series,

an event series. If you're going to, if you are going to market something as this is an event, I'm not going to judge it like this is another episode of whatever show you like to watch. in high school or college with the fairer sex,

I'm just going to say, if you call it an event, that's what I'm going to judge it as. Damn. We getting at each other. This is the fuck I like. Listen, hey, I mean, we'll talk about it later, but they said season finale, you know what I mean? So, but my bigger point, I think it was all about the emotion.

It's all about Anakin and Obi-Wan. They could have fought anywhere. They could have fought at any place. Like, it really didn't matter. about them too, having that moment, having that sense of, oh, this is for show, like the end of me believing that Anakin is still somewhere in there for Obi-Wan. That was what was all about. So, like, I wasn't really worried about, oh, man, Charles, hearing his voice, you know, I fucking cried.

Dude, that was so. Like, hearing his voice. Distorted with Jamesville Jones. It was so amazing. Let me explain something to you guys. And it's something to me that. I thought that this show had actually lost. I've rewatched the original trilogy, right?

And rewatching the original trilogy, it's very easy to feel something for Vader, right? Because the most people that Vader fucks over in the original trilogy are other members of the empire. Like he forced chokes a bunch of the fucking lackeys, which is wrong. But these guys are the most oppressive bad motherfuckers in the whole galaxy, right?

He does other terrible shit. Don't get me wrong. He's very scary. But at the end, when he, midway, really midway towards the end of Empire, Vader is like reaching out for his son and saying, hey, join me. And at that part, he kind of becomes a dad. You know what I mean? He still does terrible shit.

Don't get me wrong, he kind of becomes a dad. So the redemption arc is easier to stomach by the end of Jedi because, you know, this is Luke's father. and you have no idea what's happened in the past. Like this show and other stuff, reading the Vader comments, it had destroyed that for me. I'm like, yo, somebody get this guy off planet,

tattooy planet, fucking Musafar, get him out of the galaxy, he's bad. They actually were able to sell me again on the redemptive nature of Vader's character when I saw Skywalker still in there. I felt bad for him. I really didn't think that

that was possible at this point, having watched him kill all of those people in Rogue One, having watched him snap all of those necks in this one, having read all the comments, having known that in order to get his Khyber crystal, he went to another planet and essentially destroyed the entire planet to fight one Jedi and take his lightsaber

and make his crystal bleed. All of that stuff I know, but like he looks like he's tortured inside of there. I feel so bad for that little, kid that was on that pod racer and I remembered him and it also to me made me feel that

the prequels kind of worked on me and Clone Wars definitely worked on me I felt bad for Anakin little Skywalker guy inside of the air I felt tortured for him and it's something like that that makes me easily believe that Obi-One could never

kill Anakin or never be the one to kill Bader because I think that somewhere deep down that he probably knows that even there's a little bit of him left in there. Because you see that and he eventually comes to the idea that, you know, the future will sort itself out. And I think that's the ultimate piece that we kind of come into with Alec Guinness's Obi-Wan and seeing him face down, Vader, to know that like this isn't something for me to fix anymore.

And he is lost, but he is forever lost to me is the important point. part. And that's that's something that's really hit home with this episode. Also, he called him Darth. They cleaned that up. Right. Yeah, they did. You know what? You guys think we're fucking stupid. We're not dumb. We're not dumb. We know it doesn't make any sense. You are reconing as you go.

Oh, no, he called him Darth back in the day. So it's like something that he says. Oh, we know, motherfucker. You guys call Sidious. City is every single time. But you call him Darth for some reason. that was his name. Anyway, Charles, have you,

has your, have you, you wave the white flag? It's the greatest episode of television. No, I mean, here's the thing.

I do agree that, like, it, it's so dope to see Hayden's face and to see how destroyed he is. And to see that acting,

like I, I want to give so much credit to Hayden. He has to do so much acting with just his eyes, with just his voice. And that's so difficult. So to see him kind of be able to reclaim this character

and realize that like, hey, like Hayden really can do the thing. I think the thing that maybe it's just a difference of how I like to approach stuff like this is that I think the beauty of Star Wars is, is that those original movies do not work unless everything is firing on all cylinders. Like when you see like a planet like Hawth, It's not just important that Hoth looks otherworldly, something about that world, something about Dagaba, you know, whether you're seeing the swamp and you're seeing where Luke has to train and has to figure out something about himself, has to literally rise out of the muck and become something.

When you see Hoth, how cold and bitter it is and how much it shows you out hardened, this hero has become because he's a farm boy that now has to shoulder the galaxy on his... Like that's something that's like really little because you'd be like,

whoa, cool planet. But like story-wise, it's doing something to you and you don't even notice it. I think when you guys are like, hey, it's a TV show, so of course it's not going to be a movie or hey, like these things aren't as important.

I'm like, but where they're fighting tells you something about it. Like it's cinematically. It has that power. You were a kid. Daigabah looks mad fake. Are you fucking nuts? Like you were a child.

No, this isn't about real or fake. Because I will say, like, when you watch those original films, it doesn't matter if Yoda looks like a puppy. It doesn't look, it doesn't matter that Dagaba does not look like, quote, unquote, a real swat. Your standards have changed is what I'm saying. No, the feeling of the planet and how it connects to the story. The planet where Darth and Obie's,

want our fighting is like, it's just like a lot of, it's a lot of rocks, a lot of craggly shit. And I'm just like, okay, cool, but there's nothing about this that is iconic or would make me want to be like, okay, this is potentially going to be the last time these two fight before a new hope. It's just like that's, it's not reaching that level to me. And I don't want to be a hater about it. You're not being a hater. I do think we have to hold Star Wars because here's the thing, Star Wars is one of our great

stories, like not like a great story, one of the, the great stories. I hold it to that iconic level. Well, here's my thing, right? And Charles, you're really, you know, into like where they thought. There is like, frankly, I couldn't care less. They could have part of my living room. Doesn't matter. I mean, you watch Agent's the Shield.

We know, uh, Jones. I get it. No, we're getting personal. Here's the thing, right? Wow. I feel so absolved to this episode. We're getting personal. I love it.

I love it. His helmet cracks and you look into his eyes. Obi-Wan looks upon Anakin for the first time since he left him on Mustafa. And it's almost an exact mirror to Twilight of the Apprentice and Rebels where Osoka sees Anakin for the first time since they last parted. and just like just to pose in those two moments you know in rebels it's his right eye in this show it's his left eye

and you realize that both of them go go oh like that was you know for anyone that was his student for Asoka that was her master and that now they both realize oh he's lost to me like they both have that look of oh he's gone like the person

I love the person, like, I would have died for. So is now somebody else, unrecognizable. Was just, was powerful, man. I don't know what to tell you. If that ain't for you. I don't know what will, bro. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

I think two things can be true at once. I think that there can be emotional parts of this fight that work and, like, worked on me. I'm not saying that this was, like, a terrible fight. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, like, hey, as a series, I did, like, Obi-Wan did not live up to when you're like, hey, we're getting an Obi-Wan-Kinobie event. It did not live up to

what I think that character means in terms of like- This is the question. This is the question. We'll come back to this question in the second. I will say this. I'm not on the fence here, but I do see both sides. Like, it's interesting Charles's take on this when it's fully formed because in the Star Wars that we know and love

from growing up, every place, every scene has some jig, if I ask you right now, what happened? You cannot just tell me what happened. You can tell me where. Right. And that, and that, and like where it happened, how it happened, how the environment around it plays into it happening. You know what I mean? Indoor, Hawth, Dagaba, Bespin, like all of these different places, they have real meaning and real, like, real significance, like in these places. I would argue that with the television shows, period, that has changed.

Not just with this television show. I'd argue that if we're not on Tattooey, we don't really know where we are. Mando pops around a lot, and that's part of it because I think that what we're looking for here, because we're on television, the set pieces are just not going to be as integral. to the story as they are when we're on, when we're in the movies, right? The set pieces just, they can't be. If they rely too much on the set pieces,

then they will fail because the budgets aren't the same or they're getting the CGI from the kids at USC. Yeah. They got to Caltech homies are working overtime out there, bro. I'm just being for real. Oh, like, let's be real. When young Luke was running on tattooing through the mountains,

I'm like, come on, like, what are we doing? You know, so it's, You mean little Ron Howard? Like, that is different. By the way, dog, there was a part of me at some point that thought they were going to have Luke do some for shit. Yeah, I was about to show you. Bro, I felt that I'm like, this nigga is going to turn around

and lift a mountain or something like that. Or blow her back. And I'm like, if they do that, it'll take me out of it. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great

sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. save at Whole Foods Market. We do have to talk now about the Riva situation. Oh, boy. Okay, so we have to talk about the Riva. No one wants to talk about it. Okay, first of all, what's, what is the name of O'Shea Jackson's character again, Roken?

Yeah, Roken. Roken. I think they set us up for to see more Roken. Rokin leaves, and he says, I'm just getting started. So I think we're going to see more Roken. Roken was fine. Let's not dis O'Shea Jackson. No, like, shout out, O'Shea, get your check.

There were a couple acting moments in this where I'm just like, yo. You look like him. Like my man. That could be your brother. Jesus. You look like him. Like, you look like O'Shea. You and O, like, it's a reverse Olson situation.

You know how the Olsons are the twins and Elizabeth Olson is younger. It's like, O'Shea is older and his younger brother, twins, you and your brother, you look like O'Shea. So you have that situation, you have Leah. They got rid of Leah in this episode, which for the most part worked. But there was Riva. Riva, who was left alive for some reason, still don't know why. You kill everybody.

You kill people. You kill people that you never met. Okay? Snap their necks. I'll never forget, Veda, just snapping that kid's neck. I'll never forget. This is so brutal. And Riva tries to kill you.

With the lightsaber, you leave her alive. Not sure. Can we also just point out, like, we got to do better. Like, why when it's a, why when a black woman is on screen, if, like, they're going down the wrong path, we got to give them the Tyler Perry wig? Like, come on. Like, really? Like, she didn't get a touch up really quick before she goes back to Tatooine.

That's how we know she, she's gone bad because her braids aren't done. Come on. She didn't have really, but she was, she had a lightsaber through the, how does she survive that? That's what I was. Listen. What did the Grand Inquisites say? Revenge does wonders for the will to live. It's true.

She walked that shit off. It happened with Maul too. But at least Maul had to like be in the trash for years. Right. You know what I mean? He dug himself out. Yeah. At least Maul had to be in the trash for like years and years.

She, bro, she walked it off, dog. She was tapped into the Hader Force. I understand. Think about Phoenix. We saw Fennick. It wasn't a lightsaber. But like, Venick had to go through the shit to fix her stomach.

It's literally like Riva is stabbed in the stomach one episode and the next she's just walking around tattooing like bullying, like bullying muffling. She was hobbling. She was hobbling because, you know, Owen got a couple of licks in there. Oh, he's like, hey. I had no poor bitch.

I don't know what to tell you. I only got some into there. No, I know that. Story wise, come on. Owen. Okay. I'm going to Beru being like, yeah, we stay in here. We're defending our farm.

You know, when Baru put out the straps, I was like, hey, yo. Yo. She was like, we ain't going nowhere, man. But to this point, though, think about what kind of people they would have to be to endeavor to watch over Skywalker that entire time knowing who's looking for him. They have to be brave. I think that, I think that to me is like, that's reinforcing of who they, they are, their character.

If you drop Skywalker off to me, bro, I won't even, my cousins used to be like, hey, yo, man, Van, this is a true story. Wherever you are, I love you, but I got to tell the story. Like, hey, yo, man, Van, they're trying to repo my car. Can I park my car at your house? Fuck no.

I don't want nobody coming out here. Yo, Van, can I park my car in your house, brother? They're going to repop my car if I'm at the house. Bro, park that bitch at the mall. I don't want to see them people. if you, hey, if you hear and then people ask, yo, is your cousin inside?

You didn't tell me that they're looking for you? You didn't give me the choice? I'm gonna tell them. Damn, you don't even need a sex piece from KFC? You snitching like that? Damn. I'm not snitching. Don't bring trouble.

Don't bring trouble to my home. It's the repo man. Who gives a fuck? Bra. I don't know. Is the repo man with the police? I don't want to have no, I don't want to have no, bro.

I don't want to have no. calls with the police. You can't park my shit at your crib. You win an Oscar and now you just like, yo. Nick, this is before that. This is years ago. What are you talking about? This is before that.

I don't want to be involved. All right? If something goes down, I'll keep it on the tuck or whatever. But if you're going to put my freedom in jeopardy, nah. And so I would never be the one to leave Luke with. You put him on the curb.

You be like Riva. You'll be out on the curb. and pick him up. Like, hey, the empire is looking for this kid. You got to look after him. Hey, Obi-Wan, I'm not going to lie, bro. You got a new son. Name him Ben Jr.

Like, y'all can go around, y'all can go around using the force together, picking up rocks, building sandcastles with the force, all of that. So what I'm telling you is they are, these people are actually super brave and very dedicated and fighting a resistance of their own in a way by having Skywalker, right? This is kind of their way of resisting the empire

if you're being honest. And so to me it makes a lot of sense that they would go to the lengths that they went to protect him. Real tough that they end up getting burnt to a crisp by some stormtroopers though. Excuse me. Does this not reinforce what I just said?

I know. They put up a fight. I mean, nothing you're saying from a character standpoint, like, I'm not going to argue this. it was just that entire part of the plot I was kind of like, why am I supposed to care? I have not seen Kid Luke since the first episode. Why are we doing this?

And it's the fact that we know that this will amount to nothing. Yes. It's because we know that Luke will be okay. Also, does Luke have amnesia? That he won't remember this. Like, does Luke have amnesia? Like, yo, Riva with her big ass lightsaber

is chasing your ass. It's the love of like, Oh, blame it on the Tuskins, by the way. Tough look for them. Oh, excuse me. We have to talk about the fact that the Tuskins had been exonerated for all of their past stuff. And we just, yo, the Tuskins just got the short end of the fucking Tuscan staff again. It's tough.

It's tough. It was really funny how they tried to, they had Luke passed out like that. And he wasn't moving. They were supposed to make us think like, oh, no, we lost. Luke, that's crazy. What's going to happen? And he, like, obviously wakes up. Or like, yeah, for sure,

try, appreciate the fake out. But I've seen a new hope. Like, it's just, it's not going to go down like that. Guys, we have to talk about the Tuskans. That really was messed up, bro. Like, that was racist as hell. Oh, that was racist. That was racist.

See, now I'm thinking about it. But that was racist as hell, man. It's tough. You can't blame it. The Tuscans didn't do nothing. And this is why, this is why saying people just get, like, slaughtered. You know what I'm saying? Is they always taking out?

You know what? Tycho with Titi, the show should be, it should be called the Sand People. And I want to see four sensitive Sand People just fucking take over tattooing. Wait, do you think this was a Liam Nesams, Liam Nisom's situation where like Uncle Owen's like, man, y'all, look at how y'all did my stepmom. Like, fuck you.

That's why Quigon came back. He was out looking for sand people. to kill something. He was mad about he was mad about something else. And he was like, he was out. He was like, as soon as we saw him, his life's name was just zoop.

It's just a pile of sand people. Now he got to go back on Atlanta season four and apologize for that. Apologize for that. No, but for real. That's a great thing about being a Jedi. You don't need to learn anything you don't want to. Right.

Like, does Luke not remember this? What's happening? I mean, it's a traumatic event, you know, Sometimes as a kid, you just space out on stuff. You space out on someone with a red lightsaber chasing you through the mountains as a child. Remember, he passed out. Maybe he don't remember. Maybe he did pass out.

He passed out. Yeah, but the, come. All right, guys. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't make any sense.

Steve and I can't be the only ones who are a little bit like, yo, like, this ain't make sense. Yo, it doesn't make sense. They have been very clear on the Star Wars canon that, like, it's fluid. Right. These things, it comes and goes and ebbs and flows. That's fine. Can it can be fluid. Things can be changed and moved around and all of that stuff. That's fine. But like to know that this ultimately is a net zero for all of this,

the moment that Reva steps on Tatumina, I'm like, well, I know everything is going to be fine. The most that we can get out of this is whatever her arc finishes out to be. That's the thing. Which we didn't made to care about in the first place. And I think it's not about them. It's about her, which to be honest with you, Steve, is the real failing of this sub-blight.

Exactly. Is that we don't really care enough about Riva, or at least I didn't care enough about it. I won't speak for everyone, to really be invested into her redemption at all. We would allow all of this to happen if we cared about Riva and what ultimately becomes of her. But again, it just fells flat.

Can I also ask you guys this from a canon perspective? So Luke meets Ben. Ben gives him this toy from my, I have to go back and rewatch it. I rewatch a couple months ago. Luke almost regards old Ben as like a kooky old crazy man who lives in the mountains.

And I'm just like, wait, you met him when he was like a hero almost. Like he's like this, he's like this like old uncle figure and like Luke regards him in a new hope like, this crazy old man, what's he going to teach me? So I'm just like where?

I mean, I think to Luke's perspective, I think he was just a guy that gave him a toy. Yeah, I don't think it was like that big of a deal. I don't know that he, he says, I know old Ben Kenobi. And I think Ben was keeping his distance on purpose, right? Because he could have easily went there on Wild Luke, right? You know, like, hey, Luke. I was just wondering because I was just like, wait, so Luke knows him right now.

This isn't an old crazy man. This is like just a Jedi or he doesn't know he's a Jedi, but he's just fine. He's just the neighbor. It's like literally just a neighbor. Do you know what, do you know what of everything that? that kind of got to me. Being that she found him, it makes no sense

not to let Obi-Wan train him now. Being that she found him, right, she was able to find him on Tatooey. They know that there are people out there that can find them on Tatooey and come get to Skywalker. It makes no sense to just leave him out there

without skills that can protect him. I mean... To me... I mean, he's 10 years old. I don't really... I think Baru and Owen still feel like they're... best, they're the best defense.

Ultimately for me, like, and I talked about it last week, Reva should even be alive. Like, I mean, like, story-wise, like, forget getting stabbed in chess. Like, her storyline should have ended in episode five. And all of episode six should have been Obi-Wan and Vader. Like, him dealing with Anakin and then coming back to Tatooine was just, like, honestly, like, kind of bleh.

I don't understand the decision not to kill the character in episode five. it makes perfect sense that that's the end of Riva. I don't understand why, unless they know something about the future of the character. Because Riva, Riva hasn't even done anything to be redeemed. So you get redeemed for not you won't kill. For not killing children, congratulations.

But you ate it and abetted killing countless. Do you know how many people, that's just what we saw. She's been with the inquisitors for a while. Do you know how many people died for her bloodlust and not killing one kid? I mean, look, I get it. Lucas Tollone Always put some hope in it

Hope is the The Star Wars cocaine that we sniffed The spice? Hope is the space that But I don't know man You gotta remember Vader did all that killing He threw the emperor off

The new Death Star And he came back as a forest ghost You know what I'm saying? That's different though First of all It's not really different If I'm being honest It's kind of not

But at the same time If you destroy the entire empire. I mean, you did it for your kid, but if you destroy the entire empire, like, I could see maybe you one leg of a force ghost. Maybe one of your legs could light up. Not the whole thing. But if you just, if you destroy the whole empire, that's one thing.

She just didn't kill Skywalker. I guess who is going to go on to destroy the entire empire? I don't know. Maybe the light side is just forgiving, you know? You brought it up, Jomey. But if I'm going to be, like, if I'm going to nitpick just a little bit, So what you were saying, then, if I'm Obi-Wan Kenobi, I'm like, damn, if we would have gotten to Anakin a little bit sooner, this shit would have been better. There's like a reason that the Jedi are like, it's better to train younglings as young as you can get, though.

If I'm Obi-Wan, I'm just like, man, probably not a good idea to train the Skywalker's when they get too old because they're set in their ways and then they start killing kids. Shout out the last Jedi. You feel me? Like, if I'm Kenobi, I'm like, damn, they already know. Like, let me just start training them in the force right now. You can't, but it's not going to change. The Skywalker's have darkness in them. But that's what I'm saying.

Why wouldn't you work with them when they're younger so you could start helping them control it at an earlier age? You could, but if we go out, like, think about it, Jason Solo, Dark Side, Luke, turn into the dark side briefly in, Jedi, right? then you have in canon Ben's solo, dark, Anakin, dark.

I remember I read something at some point that said that Plague is actually might be Anakin's father because he might have manipulated the mini chlorines. Oh right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he might have manipulated the mini chlorines to get Schmee pregnant. And if that's the case, it makes a lot of sense.

Really, bro, I'm gonna be honest with you. It all comes back to Palp. We talked about it, bro. Palp is the man. Want to support your gut health? Take Activia's gut health challenge. by enjoying two Activia yogurt a day for two weeks and see if you feel a difference.

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Vayner talks to the emperor at the end of this episode. Vader suppresses his emotions towards Obi-Wan and biles to only serve Palpi. Palpi once again comes in and gets everything together. By the way, is this Ian McDermen is, palpi? Yes.

I believe it is, yes. A lot. What do you think about this? Do you think that this, in a way, is Vader's last trial to suppress the light? Until we get Obi-1 season two. You know, I don't think they, I don't think they can run it back

for season two like this. It's got to be something very different. It's got to be something very different. I think that this is a good explanation as to Palpatine understanding that Anacin's real weakness is Obi-Wan. And if he's distracted and if he is preoccupied with revenge or justice or whatever he wants, he will not reach his full potential in the emperor's eyes. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think you can tell the same story with Lou Glea, Vader, the whole thing. because then you start to talk about, like, the canon and like, so they were just messing around. Like, those 19 years, they were just all hanging out and being buddies. Oh, no, I want an Obi-Wan-Kanovi story without them. Yeah. I think that's where you get. I think it's what you get if there's a season two, honestly.

I actually think season two would be a lot better if he was just off doing something else. And he just gets to be, oh, we want Kenobi and gets to be cool. And we don't have to ask a bunch of canon questions about, like, how does this fit in? We're just like, no, he's just doing some cool shit. It's like, let's go for the ride. It's bringing the Yuzon Vaughn-Vong for season, two. No, seriously, I think season two, because we know that there are a lot of other Jedi that, you know, are on the path. I think season two, there's a lot of places they can go. I think they left a lot of things open for season two.

And we're also talking about the beginnings of the resistance. And you have to think about other Star Wars properties and how they might tie into an Obi-Wan season two. Because we're talking about the very dawn of the resistance right here. The resistance is going to need. There's a reason why Leah thinks Obi-Wan Kenobi is her only hope in New Hope. There's a reason why she thinks that, right? And that still hasn't really been, that hasn't, we understand now that she has, she has a prior dealing with him, but there's a reason why. And so I think we can still explore that. Now, we're going to start buttressing up against a lot of other things here pretty soon. And what we're going to get is a content sandwich because right now we're still at the loose ends of it.

But there's a lot of meat in here that we all know from rebels. and from a lot of other stuff that's about to start buttressing up against each other with some of these other characters. And they have to be a little delicate in the way that they do it. But I think they definitely could do it. I would be into it.

Quigon comes in at the end of the episode. New was coming. He's a force ghost, but he's aged a little bit. What do you guys think? Yeah, we knew it was coming, so it wasn't like a total surprise. I thought we'd get him a little earlier, right?

But I think it sets up, you know, like you said, and also like what he was kind of doing in those the remaining nine years, right? Because for me, my thing, so in Rebels, this episode called Twin Sons where Mall comes to touch when he's like, I'm going to best Obi-Wanobi is my time. And he's been training for years. He's been in a gym, you know, three beats a day for five summers. Five beats a day, the three summers, right?

He's been locked in, right? Maul been locked in. And Obi-Wan dispatches him in three moves. Ba-B-B-Bah, you're dead. Sorry. And I was like, dang, Ma, you went out sad. What's going on? But if what I got from this moment with Quigon and Obi-Wan was,

are they about to go back and train? Quargon's like, hey, man, you see in the light now. And you've got so much more to learn. Let's go get it cracking. So Obi-Wan's going to go back to, you know, his little spot in tattooing and start putting in the hours again. He's going to almost become like, you know, Quigong's Padawan in a different sense. So that explains so much of twin sons.

That explains why Obi-Wan in A New Hope was like, hey, it's not my job. I'm going to just turn into her ghost and dip. I think that informs a lot of what happens to Obi-Wan in the future. So I was like pretty cool with Quigone showing up. It's cool. I think it's interesting that he didn't need Quigone. That's my issue. That Quigone was late to the party.

I actually love that. I kind of love that. I hate to bring up the age-old subverting expectations in Star Wars, but we kept theorizing that Quigon was kind of going to be that emotional answer that Obi-Wan needed to, like, reset the clock with his, like, turmoil with Anakin and everything. But, like, he kind of came to that all on his own. And at the last moment of the episode, it's like, oh, hey, yo, kook, let's go and train in the light. I love that actually.

I mean, I'm going to be real. If you're going to promise me Quigon at the beginning of the season, if this is going to be something that you're like, this is important. Who promised you, Guiagan? He's literally, the whole thing is like,

hey, you need to reconnect with the force. I'm like, okay, cool. Like, if you're going to promise me Quigon Jin in this, I want to see Quigon gin. You did. Same thing. I saw him, too. We all saw him, right?

It wasn't like, we weren't like, this is what I don't like. Like, here's, if you are going to bring back these people, bro. Like, if this is going to be big, like this is Obi-Wan Kenobi, bro, this is supposed to be an event, okay? Don't be cute about it. Just show me Quigan for more than five seconds.

Do not be cute. Everything you said, Joe Me, was way more interesting than anything that we got. So if this is the only Obi-Wan Kenobi series we ever get, I'm going to be like, yo, like, what are we doing here? Okay. So number one, number one. Whoa. Yo.

Whoa. There's nothing wrong with me. What's wrong with me, then? Nothing's wrong with meat. That's what I thought. Keep me. Absolutely nothing. I'm saying, I haven't heard anyone ask for it that thoroughly in public in a while.

So let me ask you a question. Is it possible that they're looking to a season two with a quagon force ghost is more prevalent? And this was a good way of setting up the, the quagon force ghost. Because in this particular story, the force ghost doesn't really have a place. Then why? My first question would be why I put it so prominently

in the first episode is something that like Obi-Wan has to do. He has to reconnect with the force. They drop in the fact that Yoda's like, you need to learn how to commune. That would be my first thing. My second thing is like, When we talk about Star Wars, and I love Star Wars. When we talk about Star Wars, we're always talking about it in the way of like,

well, what comes next is going to be better? Or like this, they didn't do it on screen, but this is everything that's happening in between screen. That's just as interesting if you think about it. And I'm like, hey, you want to know what's great? Showing me and not telling me. By the way, that's not just Star Wars. That's fandom, period.

We all were talking about, yeah. That is, that is fandom. That's the MCU. But in the same way that we were all a little bit let down by Dr. strange, a lot of it has to do with, you guys keep telling me, but no one is actually showing me. Everybody keeps talking about the multiverse, but can you show me how cool it is? And when I, when there's so much in this where I'm like, like, yeah, there's a tomb, there's a Jedi tomb.

I'm like, all right, cool, there's going to be some cool dead Jedi in there. No cool, Jeddin Voss. I'm like, cool, cool, Quinlan Voss. Yeah, you're going to show me Quinlan Voss. You're like, Quigon Jin, end the episode. He's there for five seconds. I'm like, guys, this entire season is just them being like, look at the cool stuff that might happen one day

and I'm like, that's bullshit. Like they promise you a cool, awesome Vader fight and you got it. That is the bare minimum. That's literally like you being like, okay, yeah, Steph Curry, like he just made a three. You should be happy. I'm like, that's the bare minimum.

They promise you, Vader fucking shit up and Vader fuck shit up. They promise you, Riva on Tatui looking for a young Luke Skywalker hunting him stalking him like an obsidian skinned Terminator and you got that Charles

eat eat what you got eat what you got Charles no fuck that fuck that because van when when fucking multiverse of madness came out and you was looking all dejected at life you wasn't talking like just eat what you get like come on man

we're not doing that was before that movie changed me Did that kick off the summer of no expectations? Yeah. That obviously did. That was before Charles. I like, I don't, bro, I don't care, bro. No, no, no.

That was before. No, Ben, I need you back. I need you back. You got to live in this N-E-L, this N-E-L, this N-E-L, this N-E-E-E-L. This N-L, there's no-expectation. Life. I don't have them. You know what I mean?

I don't have them, bro. My favorite character is fucking, uh, What's the, what's the joy's name? Lola? Yeah, Lola is top three droid all time. Okay, anyway. Now, final thoughts on the season, starting with Steve. I think that this is a good show.

I think it is incredibly frustrating at times because sometimes it won't give you the thing that you want, but I think the thing is that it needed, needed to do it accomplishes by showing us the emotion. emotional catharses between Anakin and Obi-Wan and how that really comes home at the end. That alone justifies its existence for me. Good show.

I'd say good, really good. Had one whack episode, which seems to be like what we're doing. I enjoyed it. I thought it at the end stuck the landing enough for the show to be what I felt like was really good. We enjoyed, if we're being

honest, the majority of Obi-Wi-Wan. We enjoyed the majority of it. So I think it's a good show. I think it's a good show. I think it's a really good show. If we're judging Mando like season two as great, obviously it doesn't hit those heights,

right? But it's a damn site better than what Boba Fett was and it seemed like it might fall into the Boba Fett trap at some point. You know what I mean? Jomey. The through line between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan is the highlight of the series. That thing is woven, no, nearly to perfection.

But all the stuff on the periphery just kind of fall flat and bring down the show, to be very honest with you. So I enjoyed the main story that you're trying to tell. all the other stuff on the margins was very, very, very, very meh at the end. Yeah, I mean, I was up, I was high on this show in the beginning. I think a lot of these shows is just getting difficult because it's just the business that Hollywood is in right now. Hollywood is in a business of content, content, content, and things that you remember

as being larger than life and cinematic and making you believe kind of in the power of movies and stories. when you transport them to TV and you have to make six episodes or eight episodes of them, I think a little bit is lost. And I think as someone who loves this stuff, I'm just in a constant growing space

with being able to accept that. Yeah, what you want from an Obi-Wan series you might not be able to get because of the format. And that's not saying that the show was terrible. Like, the show did, was good. but it was there was some parts that I was just like, man, like, we know who Obi-1 is.

We all know what we kind of thought in Obi-W-Wan series would be. And to not get that, it's a little, it's a little bit of a bummer. Okay, cool. Will we get a season two of Obi-1, clockwise, started with Steve? Yes. I say yes. I'm saying, yeah. Absolutely.

Are we doing a Midnight Meter ranking? Oh, let's do Midnight Meter. Fuck it. Are we going to go in reverse order now? Yes, go on reverse order now? verse order now. Midnight, midnight meter ranking. We'll start with Charles. I'm going to give

this a six. Fuck. Okay. What? I thought that was pretty good. Okay. I'm going to give it a seven. Seven as well for me. I'm going to give it an eight. Oh, you guys were acting like a six

was wildly. Like, that's all in the same kind of... A six? It's the same kind of... A six? There's two episodes in this that were actually kind of just like why are they here? A six, bro? I'm not, that six is good.

That's 16%. That's, that's, that's what's a fucking L. What? 60%? Yeah, no,

no, no, no, we're not grading it on school. If we are grading if we're grading, that'd be different.

It would get like a, it would get a lot about your report card today, Charles. I give it an eight. I give it an eight. It's a real away from being. You gave the book of Bobafet and eight.

Like, you know that. I didn't give a book of Bobaffat an eight. Did I? Let's look it up. Let's look it up. Let's look it up. There is a Twitter, right?

The midnight meter. Shout out to the midnight meter Twitter as well. Yeah. Book of Defense season one. Van, you gave it an eight. Ben, give it an eight. You gave it an eight. Shout out to the midnight meter.

Keep it in, keeping us in check. Keep it in check. Yeah, Ben, you got to stick by that. All right, let's, no, let's be real. With some months, with some months, what would be the new midnight meter ranking for Book of Boba Fett? Six. Yes. How much of that six is the two Mandalorian episodes?

But look, in my defense, though, in my defense, the Mandalorian stuff was great, and I counted it as a part of the Book of Boba Fett because it is a part of the Book of it. It is. It is. You know what I mean? So that's the only reason I gave it a seven, right? Like, because all that, man, no stuff hit. Like, it was special. Did I give it a five?

I probably gave it. No, you gave it a six. By the way? Wait, actually, I'm going to amend my score because if I gave Book of Boba Fed a six, Obi-Wan needs to be a seven. So I'm actually going to give it a seven. There's no way these two series were the same. So I'm looking at this right now.

I'm going to be honest with you. I want to change my meter on the Batman. We're not relitigating this. We're not re-litigating this. Stay by that shit. Okay. We just be caught up in a moment.

How was that not a 10? Nah, it's not a 10. If we're gonna be here all day, we'll be here all day. It's not a 10, bro. Okay. We'll reassess that Matrix Resurrection

score though. Hey, Matrix Resurrection score went north. North circumstance. It went Nordustance. Right. There's some haters to the

Matrix. Can we get to Nerd News? Right. Can we, I think we can. Can I get to that? In this edition of Nerd News Minute,

we're talking about the internet discourse over the recent What If One Shot that featured Miles Morales as Thor. Miles Morales became Thor. Odinson

and the ghetto shit commenced apparently there's graffiti all over Miles is Asgard his rainbow bridge looks like

his rainbow bridge his his bifrost bridge looks like Brooklyn Bridge for some reason he says different things he says

hammer time says hammer times wait can I read one thing he says of all, wait, let me read this year real quick. Of all the five realms, Asgard is his hood.

For Miles, you can see he's just that good. Brough. Oh my God. Also, why'd they draw him like Odell Beckham, Jr.? Like, this is egregious. This is egregious.

Oudence Fade, man. Me and there got, he's got, it's got graffiti. on a hammer, dog. Why do it this way? Like, you know what I'm saying?

I really have a question to white people. And the question is why? Like, why? Why I'll do? Steve, can you answer? Why would I have to answer for this? Answer for white people, Steve.

Come on. Like, why do they do us this way? Like, there's nobody, there's no one that sees this and goes, nah, it's funny. Because this is a funny joke that you would make, right?

It's like, it's like a parody of what you think. It's like Miles Morales's Thor. Okay. Let's make them say by Odin's fate. Like, it's like, why? I don't understand. It is, you know, I don't know.

Why they do us this way? It's really, because we say that we, we say we want diversity, right? And then we see this and I'll be like, nah, that's straight. I don't want to. Nah, it's cool. Wait, can I get up on my soapbox really, really quick? The thing that makes me so bad about this. So what really disturbed me about the whole Miles Morales store controversy,

is that sometimes I feel like it's cool. Like even us, you joke about the comic. You joke about Biles and how racist this shit is. But you have to think, how does this even get out on comic book shelves? Do you know how many a lack of black people you have to have within Marvel that this shit gets through? You think about it. Like, I'll ask you, yo, Van, how many black comic book creators working at Marvel and D.C. Can you really name on one hand?

Like, really work. working, working. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm not particularly good at that type of thing, but I can't think of any off the car. It's not like they're, and this is all shout out to like legends like Christopher Priest. You know,

Dwayne McDuffey, everybody who's like, there are legends for sure. Reginald Huntland. Yeah. Reginald Huntland, like yes, but we get a few of them every couple of years. And my issue is it is easier. Still in 2022 for a white cis man

to write a comic book about a queer, character, a black character, a Latin ex character, then it is if that same marginalized community wanted to walk into Marvel and be like, hey, can you give me, can you give me a book with someone who looks like me? They'd be laugh you in their face. They'd be like, no. But if a motherfucker, a white guy off the street is like, hey, can I write the X-Men? They'll be like, yeah, sure. That's a problem. We're in 2022. You're telling me that a black person, a Latinx person, has not been able to write Miles Morales for the bulk of his run. the bulk of his existence,

Storm, X-Men, Black Panther, if they treat Tonehisi-Tonahisi-Cote away, Tana-Hisi-Cote's, one of our most celebrated black writers, if he has to issue an entire feature on the way a comic book company treats its workers, there's a fucking problem. Charles, you're spitting right now.

I think the guy who wrote this is Mexican and Jewish. He's not, he's not, he's not black. I'm not saying this guy's white. He is not black. And that is the issue. Well, I'm not, I'm not saying that like, hey, ever, only black people can write Miles Morales.

What I'm saying is, is that if there are black people in power high up at Marvel, you don't get shit like this because you have people who can sensitivity read this. When you think about the history of like, who gets to write black characters at Marvel, it is rarely. And same at TC, it is rarely black people. We don't even get to create the characters, and you have to think about it. We don't make money.

Miles Morales don't do nothing from our hood. I'm not seeing nothing from Miles Morales, and I love that character today. But if you can't get a black person or a Latin next person to write him the majority of the time, that's a fucking problem. Miles was created by Brian Michael Benis. Yes.

And Black Panther was created by... Stanley and Jack Kirby. Stanley and Jack Kirby, right? So, you guys, we understand the inherent contradictions that are in this. But understand what we're saying. Let me tell you what Charles says is so powerful. I'll take a lighter

touch on it. Charles is absolutely right. And this is something that gets him fired up like almost every other thing in the world. But I'll take a lighter touch. This is corny. Right? It's corny. Corny is the black culture that I represent from where I'm from.

I wouldn't say I represent every black culture. Wait, where are you from then? Baton, Rouge, Louisiana. Okay. So, corny is the antithesis of what we are.

Corny is our Darth Vader. This is corny. Like, this is corny. They took this character and they made them corny, and the cornyness of it is because of the caricature

that white America thinks we are. And inside of this, in that cornyness, there's this insidious sort of lessening. It's like if you take Miles Morales and make him throw it, the first thing he's going to do is put graffiti on his hammer.

It's like, it's a, when I say I don't know why they do us this way, what I'm really asking is, how in the world does this keep happening? You want to know how it keeps happening? How? If we're going to keep it a buck? And here's the thing. Like I said, people are mad because the writer who wrote this, is not black,

but the way that they are describing black people, the way they're portraying them, comes to a racist lens. It comes across as anti-black. Yeah, because here's the thing, though. I want to ask creators all the time, I'm like, yo, have you actually, like,

how many black kids have you talked to? In the last week, in the last year? Do you actually, like, do you view black youth, which Miles Morales represents with a level of nuance that can allow you to, who write this character in a truthful way.

That's not me saying a white creators cannot write black characters. It's saying if you're not touching the community, if you don't have black people in your circle who are telling you like, nah, that's whack. Hey, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, don't do this, don't do that. I can't trust the way you portray your characters. And I think the reason that this keeps happening, because if we want to be real, the reason I don't really read superhero comics like that anymore, every single time I would pick up a Luke Cage comic, that man was talking jive turkey shit in the 2000s.

I'm like, what the fuck is happening? Why do white creators? Sometimes people do talk like that in Harlem, I'm not going to lie. Think about if Luke Cage talk like Jim Jones. Jim Jones from Harlem, bro. So, like, there's, and here's the thing. Like, as I think about it,

Miles Morales likes graffiti. You know, I'm thinking about it. There's a line here. And I struggle to find what the line is. And I'm so. You want to know who gets to make the line? Black creators. Black,

Charles is doing this thing. Let me tell you, you know what? Can I tell you something, Charles? I appreciate your brain. I appreciate being serious. Oh, I do. I know you're trying. Steve, I need you to play ringer verse, heartfelt music.

Oh. Okay. Put some in. Ring or verse heartfelt music because I give Charles's flowers. Charles is very passionate about this. And every time we get on this topic, Charles is very, very eloquent. And I'm inspired, Charles, to work with you and to like, this goes all the way back to the Spider-Man situation.

I'm inspired to work with you with the way that you represent for us. No, wait, whoa, whoa, let me just say real quick, not just for us. Can we cut the music real quick? I want to say this too. Like, yo, it's time to give these creators. Like, Marvel does this, DC does this. You, when it's gay pride month, everybody. wants to create like a gay pride comic book and you want to hire all of the gay creators

and comic books when it's time to give a gay creator Avengers or Batman or the books that like are big that really matter like don't tap queer creators just for the queer characters let them write a Batman let them write a Superman when black creators I'm not saying only black creators can write black comics yo when it's black history month don't just tap me to want to write the black characters let me write Superman let me write Batman Like, I'm fighting for everyone in terms of like, yo, if a white cis man, if a white cis man can write black characters, queer characters, Asian characters, Latin X characters, why can't we do the same? Because right now, I would tell you, if you're a black creator out there and your dreams to work at DC and Marbaugh, I'd be like, yo, take all that talent and just create your own shit. Because even if a black person was going to do something with Miles Morales, it's not like they're going to get paid.

They might not even get invited to the premiere, if we're going to be honest. The system's fucked up. This system is fucked up. Now you're getting too militant. How am I getting militant? Because I'm trying to get to these premieres. Now you're getting much too militant. But no, you're absolutely right.

Look, this Miles Morales thing was annoying. And it's going to keep happening as long as there's no representation in the room. Not representation. Fuck that. As long as there's no power in the room. Power. Creativity is power. The power to determine these characters as power.

And it's just annoying. It's annoying to see stuff like this happen. And it's annoying to see a character like Miles Morales, who is a light to comic book fans everywhere be treated in this way by Odin's Fade. How dare you? Odin's Fade. How dare you? Also, I just, really quick, for all the artists out there, we've got to start doing better with black hair in comic books.

Like, have y'all never seen like a hair? Like, come on. Like, what are we doing? Just do it like me, baby. This is delicious. Oh, hold on. No, we're not trying to make everybody look like Vigita, yo. Come on.

All right. That's enough. That's a wrap. This Thursday, me and Joanna, Joanna and Van, are going to be back to give us, give you our reactions on the latest episode of Miss Marvel. On Friday, Joanna Mallor going to be back to give you their deep dive on the season finale on Obi-Wan. How long is it going to be, Steve? Give me your estimation. Probably three hours.

Three hours. At least three. And on Sunday, mint a day. mid-ed edition returns with their thoughts on season three of the Umbrella Academy. And I'll be honest, I'm actually more excited to listen to that than I was before we started

because it seems like you guys are going to have a little saracha. A little spicy takes. Spicy takes coming in. You know, you know, yeah, yeah. Listen, we love Klaus. We love five. maybe a character or two might fall by the wayside in between way by the wayside way way by the way way I am so into this I'm gonna be running running around listening to min edition everybody

listen to men edition this damn Sunday do not not listen uh producer crais our producer is steve almond joy the cuddily summer bear joey me the explainer at dinner on you've got questions he's got to answer. Hashtag hot Jomi summer on social video. Ladies, you aren't ready. Like, ladies, you aren't ready for Jommies. Dots. Oh my God. Can I open up with you? I know it's just the three of us, the four of us here. So like, can we just have a conversation real quick? I'm sure. I was on, I was on IG this weekend. And I got my feelings hurt, bro. I'm out

the streets, dog. I'm out. You got your feelings hurt. What happened? I can't do it, bro. I can't do it, bro. What happened? I'm out to game, dog. Hold on, hold on. Deep Shadow this. Jomi, tell us what happened. Hello, Ringiverse fans. I regret to inform you that due to the initiation of Deep Shadow Protocol, this bit had to be edited out of the pod. I know.

I'm just as disappointed as you are. Thanks as always for listening. And the Midnight Boys, PooPew, we'll get back to you shortly. Jomey, we're, this situation is over, right? We can say this. Maybe. Maybe. I think we got to,

Joe, you gotta love yourself. I think we gotta call it. I think we gotta call it. I think we gotta call it. Right. Time of death, 1143 Pacific. See, Van, this is why I'm, Van, this is partially your fault.

Why? You gotta, Jomey your man's down. I'm not in L.A. I'd be like, Jomi tonight. You're going out. We hit in the clubs. Come on, this is a high Jomey.

But Jomey. Who said that? What? Jomi don't be down for that. Come on. I'm on some real shit. Jomi, don't be down for that. Jomi don't be down for that.

Let me tell you something. We can do this. It's hot Jomi summer. The summer just started. We just had the solace this. The summer just started. Man, if I don't hear stories, if I don't hear stories next week of you taking Jomey out.

It's getting nuts. It's getting nuts. Every girl I'm going to introduce Jomey to is going to have a thigh tattoo. Shout out to all the ladies out there. with thigh tattoos, man. Oh, my gosh. Let's see. Now, that's it.

I'm starting to get a chance to introduce, to say goodbye to Arjuna. Additional production is from Mr. MVP himself, Arjuna. Ram Gapal, Charles. Take us out. My Miles Morales is black. My Lambo is blue.

We're going to tear down the comic book establishment. We have to. I like that. I'm going to be honest with you. Like, I'm going to this place. to have my hair line restored, y'all. No, you're not.

I am. Wait, for real? Yep. Nah. Coelika was like, why not? I can't. I'm not getting, don't worry about it.

As you're well-coffed, full head of hair. You don't talk to me about hair. You're going to come back looking like Jalen Rose. I'm into it. Why would not, bro? Why would not? Hey, man, you do what you feel like you need to do, man. I appreciate you, Jomey.

All right, that's it for us. When your hairline deviates. and going up, up and down, like the Stark market, every single Zoom, I'm going to bring it up. What is the Stark market? What are you talking about now? Stockwork. You try to diss and now is what.

That's Tony Stark's Market. Totally Stark Market. The Stark Market actually would be a very volatile. The Stark market would be very volatile. That's worse than crypto. An actual stark market with different types of foods would be great. Remember he has his telecrops that he has to help world hunger. Remember they tell us?

They don't want to talk about the intel crops. They don't want to talk about the intel crops. He says, they don't want to talk about the intel crops. We never saw the intel crops. No. Does anyone have a picture of the intel crops? Like, what is it?

Nanotech? They're intelacrop dusting. The intelacrop dusting, the intelacrops. We don't talk enough about them. Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But real doesn't start on a label. It starts at the source.

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