The Ringer-Verse - 'Peacemaker' Finale, Season Awards, and Steve Agee | House of Midnight

Episode Date: February 19, 2022

Do you really wanna taste it? Mal and Van do! They sit down to discuss the season finale of 'Peacemaker' as well as break down their thoughts on the entire season and what they would like to see out of Season 2 (03:27). They then give out there season superlatives, including best fight, best suit, and many more (51:06). Finally they are joined by Economos himself, actor Steve Agee, to talk about what it was like to work on the hit show (74:09). Hosts: Mallory Ruben and Van Lathan Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dave Chang is an avid student and fan of sports, music, art, film, and of course, food. With a rotating cast of guests, they have conversations that cover everything from the creative process to his guest's guiltiest pleasures. Follow the Dave Chang Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

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Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiator Radio.com. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Cole has are returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives.

Dutton Ranch starring Colehauser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. If you're going to be sarcastic, you should really warn people so there's no confusion. What? For instance, like, I'm about to be sarcastic, okay? Okay. You're not fat at all. See?

Why are you all so obsessed with my physical appearance? Sarcasm, I haven't noticed you eating way more corn chips than anyone human being should eat. And I'm not worried that you're going to die. But I am worried that you're going to die. Thanks. Greetings and welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to the cow's lair. but also to join us on the ringer's nexus podcast for all things fandom.

Joining me today for a house of midnight team up to talk about the peacemaker finale, the whole first season, the season two news, all of it. Now that he's finished telling us we should just throw away the human torpedo helmet. Just get it out of here. It's Van Lathan. How you guys doing? What's up, Val? Van, you're publishing a book, man.

congrats. Thank you. Everybody go order Van's book. Yeah, fat crazy and tired. It's about me being all of the above. So yeah, you go see. Go get that. Legacy lit.

Thank you so much for that. Very, very excited to read it. Cannot wait. Proud of you as always. You're a legend. It's just an honor to be here with you on Zoom, as always. That's how I feel about it. We have a lot to cover today.

So very quickly, as always, programming reminders right at the top as we sit here and wait for our dear eagley to bring us another snack. We will have. new Midnight Boys and House of Our episodes for you next week, Wednesday and Friday, the usual programming slate. And then, of course, the week after that,

it's time for the Batman. We're gearing up. For the Batman, it is soon. So follow along. And catch up on the recent activity of the feed. We got the whole book of Boba Fett season covered for you. Van, Joe, and Charles

did a wonderful Super Bowl trailer breakdown pod at the top of this week. And then if you have not listened to and in this case, watched because it is available for your viewing pleasure as well. This Wednesday's Midnight Boys,

the Black Heroes of Fandom Character Draft. You simply must carve out the time. Hilarity, chaos, racial appropriation by some characters that where it wasn't appropriate. just hijinks. Jordy LaForge was taken. I just can't, you know,

it's a lot, but it's a lot of fun, probably the most fun I've had during the podcast. It's just amazing stuff, man. Incredible. Incredible. We are here today to talk about Peacemaker. We're going to talk about

the season one finale. We're going to share some thoughts on the season overall. We are going to look ahead very briefly to season two, now that we know that that has been green lit, we're going to hand out our season awards, some superlatives for the entire eight episode stretch. And then later today, we have a fun interview.

We are chatting with John Economos himself, Steve Agee, joining the pod for a few minutes. So as always, for all of that, bear our mind, Van's favorite thing, the friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. Today's podcast will feature plot details from the peacemaker finale. Chapter 8, it's cow or never.

as well as the entire first season of the show and some broader DC canon. So proceed with caution. Proceed with more caution than the butterflies did when they ran their human host bodies back toward the in-use sonic boom helmet. That was a choice. That was a choice.

All right, Van, let's just dive right in, man. We just saw the finale. We're here Friday morning. Finale dropped on Thursday. Overall, how did you enjoy it? What are your finale thoughts? Loved it. I loved it for all the reasons I love this show.

Now, Peacemaker was doing a lot when you look back at it. It doesn't seem like if week to week, because it was written so flawlessly, but the show was doing a lot. Think about the fact that in this entire episode, this finale, other than when Peacemaker thinks of him,

we don't think about White Dragon once. Until Peacemaker actually manifests him, we don't really even think about him, right? And he was such a big deal. to this entire season going back and forth. But this last finale, that's why it's almost like two finale. It's like episode seven was a finale as well

because in episode seven, we finally got the end of that part of Peacemaker's Life or so we thought. Obviously, there's still some remnants in there that he's going through. But in this particular one, like, it really just worked when you, it managed to do a lindy of things.

It managed to humanize the butterflies, which we had already thought that we got the humanization of the butterflies but it really wasn't the final humanization of the butterflies. There was yet another level to how the butterflies are actually misunderstood which is not, wasn't quite soothing for a finale.

It left you with some more questions, but it's so in line with what the show is that you had to kind of get into it, right? And then you got something that I thought was particularly interesting. how the team got fucked up in advancing upon the barn. How Vigilani caught one went down. How I thought hardcore was actually dead for a second.

How Economos' leg exploded. How Audubios ended up literally with shit all over her, which is how that character has felt all season long, right? She's felt like she's just got shit all over. her. And then at the end, we see her coming clean and she kind of gets all of that gook on her. She has to get it off of her. These are human beings. And at points during the show, obviously, it doesn't feel like it. It didn't feel like it. It felt like they were up against something that they had to be superhuman, but they're not. That's why when they're walking off and I'm not

jumping the gun, and they come face to face with a floating god, the king of Atlantis, the herald of the Speed Force, and an Amazon, that's why they just walk right past them. It's almost they walk right past the gods and in their humanity. He's literally holding her as she's dying in her arms and she was doing that. And I thought, man, what an absolutely poignant scene to show that these people, these motherfuckers, just ran in there and saved the world. We think they saved the world. We'll even know if they did.

Maybe they doomed it, which is also a part of being human. You never know if what you're doing is actually saving the world or dooming the world. And to have all of that come across in a finale, I thought it was really, really well done.

Now, of course, if we're nitpicking, James Gunn is in his full back. He has totally total creative freedom. So some of the critiques I have about the finale are the same critiques I have about the previous seven episodes, which is sometimes James just let the joke go. We laughed already. Like James wants us get this for two or three laughs.

But I'm so used to that now as part of the peacemaker universe. I thought the finale really worked. I really did. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I really enjoyed the finale. I really enjoyed the season overall. And I think that what you're saying is exactly right, the finale was the season in

miniature. It was a microcosm of the overall flow and like that calibration, that blend of ingredients that are often so central to a James Gunn story, and that certainly were so central here, that mix of action and humor and emotion and

thematic resolution, the fact that there is not only one, but multiple cohesive and fulfilling character arcs inside of of this darkly comic blood fest. Yeah. It's like a really difficult thing

to be able to pull off. And I think, you know, we've talked about versions of this with Marvel TV and Star Wars TV just more broadly what the television experience in the streaming era for these shows kind of gifts the creators and also us as viewers, just that time with the character.

Like we feel and are interested in this character set in a fundamentally different way at the end of this show than we were heading into it, where it was more of a like, is this going to work, curiosity? And now we're genuinely like, this was a gripping eight-hour TV experience that I did, frankly, did not expect to enjoy as much as I did,

really loved. Think that it in one way is very much of a piece in terms of style and approach and sensibility. with a lot of James Gunn's other work, even though, again, tonally, it's the different than Guardians as we discussed on our mid-season pod. Those calibrations and specific elements

and blends are really here and present too, but it also feels like totally unique and something that could kind of only come to the fore from this group of people in this moment in time, which I think is really cool. the blend, those different elements, the action, the humor, the emotion, the thematic resonance, because they were also present here and also central of the season,

I mean, maybe let's just like run through those one at a time and hit some of the highlights from the finale on the action front. How did you feel about the choreography, the fight sequences, and the general action-heavy elements of the finale? It was like the super violent butterfly showdown. great helmet moments. You know, we get the rundown of all of the tech. Eagley has his, our dear Eagley has his flight.

We get the sonic boom on repeat. We get autobios, human torpedo, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I'm curious how you felt about this in the vacuum of this episode, in the vacuum of peacemaker, but also as a point of contrast to some other finalities. Because for me, I was like, one of the things that I was most impressed by was that it felt like the exact right culmination for. this show. We didn't have any

finale problem, finale final fight issues here. This felt like the continuation of the kind of cadence and pace and mix that we had gotten throughout the full season. So nothing felt out of place. Nothing felt like totally overcorrected,

shrunk down or expanded to make space for this grand showdown. It all kind of just felt right. Absolutely right. So I just want to lay down a gauntly before I start talking. There was a point, maybe one point in this finale when I thought harm would come to my dear Eagley. This one part where he's flying towards the barn,

I'm like, are they going to do something to Eagley? I just want to make sure that we have everybody here that's listening to me right now. Never. Okay? I'm laying down the gauntlet. The day they harm Eagley is the day I stop watching. Van, I could barely go on after he took that hit.

in the penultimate episode. That was agonizing to watch. Yeah. Genuinely horrible. Why did we have to see that? No eagerly harm. That's all I'm saying. No eagle is the man.

So I'll compare this to some of the other Marvel shows. Because really, if we're real, this is our litmus test to the hero television show right now. So I think something that a show like, say, Falcon and the Winter Soldier has a problem with it. in its finale is that we've watched Falcon rock out on the highest of high levels, right? We've seen Falcon fly through the sky fighting against Thanos. We've seen Falcon flip. In the very first episode, you get an awesome Falcon fight where he's flying through the air, flips through the middle of a helicopter, it's cool.

So by the end, what you really have to see is Falcon, doing all of that same stuff in like a bad outfit. And you're thinking to yourself, well, how do we leave feeling that Falcon has found himself? How do we leave? And the only way is that he gives a long-winded speech and he's, and this is not me just slamming Falcon. And, well, soldiers, this is me being honest about some of the people. problems people have with the finale.

And you kind of get a sense, okay, he's Captain America now. But there was no done, done, done, you know what I mean? Because we've seen so much from the character. And they gave us so much of the characters because things in the world are so hot. These guys were scrappy, really, the whole time. They were scrappy. They weren't choreographed. They weren't on the same page.

They were staccato in the way that they did that thing and their thing. you know, Peacemaker goes, hey, out of bio goes, hey, we're going to walk in do this. By the time she walks in, peacemaker's shooting people in the head. They weren't on the same page. They didn't have to cohesively come up with the plan. Everybody seemed to be doing

their own thing. And the reason why the finale battle and the action works is because they are finally working in concert in a real, willing way. Not just oh, we got to go do this. Vigilani isn't

belly aching about the fact that he can't bring his chainsaw. They all understand that what they have to do has to get done together. And when they take the field of battle against the butterflies, they look like a bunch of fucking badasses. That's what they look like. They look like badasses. Hard court, we finally get to see her.

We've seen her get down a little bit in the episodes prior, but we finally get to see just how lethal she is. And we get to see her and peacemaker. working together. It's almost like some of the team-ups that we saw with the Avengers,

where Kat puts the shield up, Thor hits the shield. You're like, oh my God, they're actually working together. They know how to fight with one another. They know how to use each other's skills to maximize the damage that they inflict during battle.

And like watching them in that scene, I'm like, oh, look, she fucking saved them now. They're watching each other's backs. They're acting in concert And so it's not just the action itself is the fact, now they all end up getting fucked up, it's not just the action itself, it's the fact that they finally figured each other out.

Yeah. And there's something dramatic and something thematic that's driving them to be that way too. It's a meaningful battle, not just to show us how badass they are or to show us their power scale or to show us what kind of witch magic they have. have or whatever.

It's a meaningful battle because it means something to them. And so I thought I took that away from that when I was watching it. That's such a great point. And again, these elements that I think could maybe feel disparate or almost actively in conflict with each other in a less deftly told story ultimately like served as a boon for each other to elevate each other. So you have the humor of the diarrhea pants sequence, which was hysterical. Or the, you know, after Eagley drops the helmet, Harkert saying, like, I just knew there was no way he understood what you were saying.

Or vigilante, you know, who's always good for a laugh inside of these episodes, you know, like listed, noting that out of bio is his fifth best friend. And he's already said the peacemaker is his best friend in Eagle is his second. so then we're left like, wait a minute, what's the, what's the power-hanging it? Who are the older people? You know, you have all of that humor. You have the action, but then you have the heart. And there were so many emotionally impactful character beats, both for these characters on their individual journeys and then also in terms of their shared arcs and the dynamics

that they've built between them and the thematic evolution that helps bring that to the four. I thought that the Economos speech about his beard, that moment where he is forced, right, as a matter of necessity, to share the truth because Fits, the butterfly inside of the person who used to be Fits confronts him. We get this moment where we're like, okay, this through. line, right? This running thread throughout the season of the die beard. What Peacemaker thinks is a joke and is actually like this really kind of hurtful and cruel recurring bullying from him that the kind of doesn't want to actually share anything with the group about. He has to be and allows himself to be so vulnerable knowing that they can all hear him. And it's essential because the butterfly inside of his head would have his memories and would be able to share this. But it also actually feels when we're watching

him and listening to him and his voice is breaking as he's saying these things and we're watching the faces of all the people hearing him talk. Like that just hit. That hit. That was so genuinely moving. And there's the sadness and there's the embarrassment. And there's that like on peacemaker's face that that kind of realization, that sense of being really like ashamed for the pain that he has caused somebody else. And so you are in a couple moments, one character is sharing something about himself and we are learning something meaningful about all of them, all of them together and the progress that they have made together. And I thought that was like such a lovely moving moment. So that was one that really stood out to me. We have a bunch of other emotional beats. I mean,

peacemaker begins seeing his father's ghost, peacemaker and out of bio, make amends in a really moving sequence. We have that really touching little moment between Harcourt and Chris in the hospital bed at the end. On and on the list goes, which really stood out to you as among the most notable or impactful. Economos, easy. First of all, what I contextualize what Economos was going through. Like, I feel like what I figured out. what the theme of peacemaker is. The theme of peacemaker is humans saving themselves. You know what I mean?

Like human beings coming together to save themselves and having to lean on one another to do it, right? Because like we, the superhero, how can I say that? This superhero sort of ethos, mythos, whatever, when you think about it, it. it's very minimizing to just people. Like, think about the Avengers in the Battle of New York, right? There are police officers out there, right? But what do they matter when the Hulk is crashing through buildings and stuff?

They try to give them a little bit of, you know, give people. But what we're really looking for are the gods in the sky to take care of us, right? I feel like Peacemaker is really talking about the fact that we have to take care of each other and we have to take care of ourselves. The Justice League got there too late. And let me tell you why the Economos speech matters so much. So there are two things that are working there. Number one, he's being as human as he's ever been, ever been, right?

But in the face of the very force that he feels like is trying to take him out. So he has to be his strength in that moment is the fact that he's human. His strength, his superpower in that moment is that it's his humanity. He's telling what actually happens to him. But even still, he has to do it in a way that doesn't tip that he's human to them. They can't know how much it hurts because if they know how much it hurts, they'll come and they'll kill him. And the whole mission will be a failure. Oftentimes when I'm thinking about like being a person, I'm thinking.

I'm thinking, I got to do all of this. I have to be all it is. But I can't show anybody how much it hurts. You just got to do it as part of being on the world. You can't show anyone the pain that you're going through in order to get the job done. They don't want to hear about the labor pains. Just show me the baby. And Economos in that scene is showing everybody the labor pains.

This is why. This is the answer. The answer isn't anything triumphant. The answer isn't anything revelatory. It's something shameful. It's something pathetic. But that's what people needed to hear. They needed to hear his humanity.

They need to hear his frailty. And it's at the end of the day, his humanity that saved him, right? He's being a person that saved him. Because he needed to deliver that and he needed to deliver it true. And he needed to deliver it with no hesitation. and in the back of his mind it's something that he always wanted to say to somebody. And he could never tell it to a person. So he had to tell it to an alien.

You know what I mean? And just let people hear it. So when I sit back and I'm watching that scene, sometimes I'm like, do these motherfuckers know how much they're speaking to me? Or am I just too emotional? Like, sometimes I ask, like, is James Gunn trying to do this? Because that right there was some of the most affecting stuff that we've gotten because he felt totally naked right there

as he was accessing his power at the same time. So all of these moments are great. The hardcore moment at the end with Peacemaker was great. I felt like I felt like I felt that coming throughout the episodes. You could kind of see that. I didn't think we would get Die Beard resolution here. It was a surprise to me that they chose to come back to that and make that such a huge thing.

You are riding, writing when you're doing that, man. Yeah. I, Van, that was like really beautiful what you just said. Seriously. I'm honestly, I look really touched by that because I think you're tapping into like why this is ultimately such a gripping show and really like what ultimately allows us to relate to the character so fully. I mean, of course it is fun to watch the gadgetry and, and, you know, all of the tech and the power. And there's that aspirational like bit of longing when you're reading a story when you're young or the parts of a fantasy. see tale that allow you to think about escape and the thing that you don't have in your life.

But ultimately, ultimately, the characters and the stories that stick with us are the ones who allow us to recognize something about ourselves and to try to understand something about ourselves and the connections that we build with other people. And like you said, the show is about ultimately trying to make progress, trying to make progress collectively, trying to make progress individually, getting to the point where you can recognize for yourself before you can then do that for other people, that those things are entwined, that they have to be, that that shame that you carry, whether it's what we learned in Economos's speech there, or every character has their version of that, you know, with Chris,

with peacemaker, the way that he is hiding from and then eventually confronting and processing his childhood, what happened with his brother, everything that his father has done to him. And the fact that when he finally makes what feels like a decisive choice, the show acknowledges the fact that that wouldn't be the end, right? Because you don't just move past the things that define and haunt you. They linger with you. They stay with you.

That's part of what it means to be a human being. And I really love the way that the fact, finale mixed in with all the laughs and all the fish fucking jokes gave the characters, but also the viewers, the time to appreciate and reflect on that. And I think that one of the reasons that really stood out is because the characters do make meaningful choices, all of them make meaningful choices. Audubio decides to turn on her mother to go public about what really happened with the diary about what Task Force X is really doing with the prisoners from Belle

Reeve. Peacemaker has a massive decision, this this, this pitch, this appeal from Goff that was one of the more harrowing moments in the show because it's this attempt in a show that is largely about how you allow yourself to build connections and understand other people once you start to understand yourself, there's this moment of like real, I felt at least like trepidation and terror as a viewer where you're like, oh my God, is, is Chris going to reach out here and accept this offering because this is part of what he actually has been longing for, which is basically someone to say, you're okay, right? And what's really ultimately the thing that he needs is people around him, like the 11th Street kids saying some of the things that you do are actually not okay.

A lot of the things that you do are not okay. And we're going to help you figure that out and try to fix it. What did you think of the Goff peacemaker sequence, the insights, and the observations that Goff on behalf of that contingent of the butterflies makes about human nature, about the doomed state of humanity, and about the parallels that Goff draws between the vetting. that the butterflies have taken and peacemakers vows, which are basically amounting to peace at any cost and justify the means inside of a show that has taught the characters in us that that can't be true.

We can't allow that to be true. All that incredibly well said. I think that Goff's actual pitch at times was a little heavy-handed. You could tell what exact issues golf was talking about. Like what exact issues golf was talking about.

They might as well flashed. to a mask or a vaccine at one point. You know what I mean? Like, we know what exact issues golf was talking about. It doesn't make it any less true. It didn't make it any less point, you know, meaningful, right? Because it's like, we're still defining what humanity is and what it means. And what golf is essentially telling us is that our definition is all fucked up.

And, you know, like, you know what I mean? And peacemaker, who has probably killed people who weren't deserving of it. actually in Goff situation, Goff is occupying somebody's brain that has to die now because Goff went into the brain without actually asking, right? So like, that to me seems like a hang of a fence.

But in that one situation, Peacemaker actually spares a life where you would have expected that he'd have no hesitation taking one. You know what I mean? This is an episode after he killed his dad because he just had to do it, right? So I think the choice that Goff gives to Peacemaker or the pitch hit hard because I didn't know what he should do. I wasn't certain about what the right thing to do was.

And I'm still not certain he did the right thing. And I think I think. I think sometimes I want answers But I think we think we want answers But really what we really want are easier questions Because like answers are always like the truth Is always almost always fucked up It's almost always like hard to deal with

It's almost almost like oh that can't be the real truth I think what people want sometimes are easier questions. And that's a hard question at the end of the episode. Because they're saying, hey, we've already been through this. They're essentially Cretonians, right? They're like, hey, we've already been through this. We know how this. I just also saw Moonfall, which same thing kind of happens in Moonfall.

You guys got to get to the theater and donate. you guys got to get to the theater and donate a couple of bucks to Moonfall's budget just for the attempt. It's so ridiculous. But you guys got to get to the theater. It's like, think of it as a tax right off to the movie guys.

Just go see Moonfall. It's fucking crazy. But golf is essentially saying, hey, we came here thinking that this place was going to be a place where you know, we could hang out. But you guys are doing the same shit we did. And deep down, man, we all know that they're right.

Like deep down, we all, deep down, we all know that they're right. We know we're fucking up, right? And so putting that question to Chris is it's almost like, but it's the one thing we can't do, we can't take away our choice to do better. Exactly. And we can't put it in somebody else's hands. to lord over us. That's just not the human way.

That's not the way we do stuff. So the decision that he made was amongst the hardest decisions. I've had to see a hero make on screen. And he struggled with it. And so I think the moment worked so much because even as the Joker was talking to his shit in Dark Night, the reason why that worked so much

is because there are points where the Joker was talking or you're like, yo, this motherfucker has a point. Like, you know what I mean? Like, not, not,

you guys, the Joker was a terrorist and obviously, come on, guys, don't, don't pull a van, this is the Joker. No.

I'm saying, when a villain, when a villain or an entity that's against your hero, an antagonist, should I say, has a perspective that's grounded

in something that you can understand, it's, it makes it more enthralling, you know? So that's what I felt. I felt his conflict, and I didn't know what the right way to go was. Yeah, I think that that's why it was so compelling

because it works on a few different levels. It forces him to confront the fact that he, with all the intention, misguided, though, the methods may be of saving people, might be doomed them through that decision, but also forcing him to confront his creed, his mantra, his worldview and approach in the macro, like his life made large. If everybody, if the people other than peacemaker who or the butterflies or any kind of being

that has the ability to guide the direction and course of our lives and our history, deigns to make choices for other people, then to have peacemaker have to grapple with like what that ultimately like fascist, tyrannical approach and that utter myopia. That's the other thing. Like just that the unflinching myopia where you can only look at the endpoint and not everything that you are, that you're caught, that all of the costs and everything you lose along the way to try to get there or avoid getting there.

The fact that he had to grapple with what his own vow looks like when it's applied in mass was was really quite compelling. We can go from there to briefly just for a few minutes before we get to our season awards, look ahead to season two because we know that we're getting a season two, which is very exciting. And let's start right there with Peacemaker and Goff, because as you said, Peacemaker does not kill Goff. Peacemaker, let Goff live. And then at the very end, Goff comes back to two peacemakers home, sits down on the porch, and Peacemaker feeds Goff the last remnant of that. that amber liquid. As ghost dad sits there with them

and eagerly goes off to fetch another snack, what did you make of that? Was that the final moment that they will share? Will Goff and the butterflies and that whole plot continue somehow absent a food source into season two? Or do you think that was the end for the butterflies? I think Goff returns.

I think what we get is peacemaker doing something similar to what Byrne did remember Mern chose

somebody who he felt like was irredeemable or whatever and he inhabited their body I think we

see golf's butterfly in a new host next season I don't know what's going to happen

because I don't know how much food is left that Glenn Ty. Glentai is destroyed, right? They blew it up. I think, yeah. The cow, as the source is gone now. The cow is, of course, the source is gone, but I don't think that they would show us

that golf was still alive just to let golf die in some interesting, weird sort of way. I think that, I think we'll be going to see more of the character.

I'm interested to know how this situation with Peacemaker and his dad is going to play out. Yeah. That's what I was going to ask you about next. Yeah, like, yeah, that, I'm like, because I thought, yeah, well, I thought, wow, Jason Patrick, like, Robert Patrick with Jason Patrick,

two different actors, guys, much different guys. I thought, you know, Robert Patrick out of the film now. But no, does it seem like it? Seems like he's going to be around. in a sort of, much like the way that a polka-out man's mom was around in, like, in the suicide squad. So I thought that little scene on the porch left us with like a lot of questions. As far as the butterfly, as far as the golf, what do you think about my theory that golf is probably going to inhabit the body of another actor and be down with Peacemaker next season? I'm into it.

I like the idea of them becoming allies, even if it's like tentative allies. obviously they have a real bond and a real connection. And it would feel thematically of a piece if a character who has been very misguided and has done a lot of bad things was actually given a chance to try to do things differently. Don't know what the food source will be,

but I don't think we've seen the end of Goff either. I suspect that the butterfly plot overall will shift to some other, you know, threat. I don't think we'll just see that continue. But Goff hanging around inside of another host, the problem is that Goff has to then take another host. Goff has to take over another person's life and burrow into their brain and kill them. I mean, once a butterfly takes a host, that's it.

Like, it's just a carcass. Yeah, at that point. So that would be tough. I don't know if they can sanction that. Probably not. Maybe Goff just has to exist in butterfly, for him and just hang out that way. How about judo master?

Because we get this interesting moment with judo master at the end, surrounded by carnage alive, very mad, sobbing while eating those Cheetos. What will judo master's quest for revenge look like? I'm not sure. It's so interesting that judo master wasn't a butterfly, that he was in league with the butterflies,

but they chose to leave judo master without a butterfly. It makes me wonder how many other characters might be like that, who were just genuinely, even if they weren't taken over, were recruited to the cause and whether that could be part of how the plot continues. Yeah, it could be because judo master has been left as one of the most interesting and sort of curious threads.

He's always a step late to whatever's going on. he's moving slow, he's wounded. He seems to have been in with the butterflies, but we don't get, we understand now that Gough told Judo Master, basically the same thing that she told, Peacemaker, and he went for it, but we don't know enough about Judo Master to know why.

We don't know enough about Judo Master to know what his next step would be. And he doesn't seem to just be working with the butterflies. He seems to love them. So that also makes things, a little different, like not quite the same. So I don't know. It's interesting.

I think we definitely see more of judo master, but is he a situation to where he's trying to take out peacemaker until he understands that peacemaker and golf are cool. Does judo master voluntarily become golf's host? Because he loves the butterfly so much. You know, I don't know, but I just, I thought. that scene, which by the way, shout out to Cheetos,

because every time he popped one, I'm like, you know what I want right now? Same. I want some Cheetos. Same. I don't eat Cheetos all the time, but when you eat Cheetos,

you go, wow, why don't eat Cheetos more often? Oh, man, I love a bag of flaming hot Cheetos. Love. Amazing. So I'm not sure,

but I looked, but just, but looking at it to kind of wrap it up, looking at it, he seemed moved or disappointed in a way that did just signify that he lost, it signified his loss. He wasn't just mad because they lost the battle.

He was mad because he lost some pals or some people that he loved. So it's a little different. Yeah, there was a real, like, palpable level of pain there. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection

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utterly forlorn until he takes out the picture of the 11th Street kids. And then, of course, out of bio calling for the investigation into Task Force X, our characters are spread out. They have gone their separate ways. Some of them are moving forward, taking leaps. Some of them have gone back to some relic of their former life, particularly given the potential DC universe implications of the Task Force X reveal and what that might mean for the larger, not just peacemaker, but suicide squad universe. How do you see our Apple Dumpling gang coming back together again here at the start of season two? in a mission that out of bio calls for

I love it because I think there's going to be a little bit of a power struggle between Ata Bio and her mom you see Waller sitting there right and you see Waller looking utterly fucking shocked that her daughter just nart her right and so if I'm a government

Can I ask you? Did you get any quick quick succession spoiler Fast forward 30 seconds if you don't want to hear this. Did you get any like Logan Kendall Roy end of season two vibes there too where it was like you've betrayed me and turned to me but also I'm proud because you are a killer like you have that instinct.

Yeah. Which by the way, they didn't really quite pay that off. If I'm picking with succession, they didn't pay that off because I expected Logan and Kendall's relationship to be a little something different. They didn't pay that off. They kind of kick Kendall's ass back down. Anyway. But, yeah.

same thing. But I think in that power struggle is why, like, if I'm the government, if I'm the government and I have this big fire to put out with Task Force X and, you know, all the clandestine sort of black ops stuff they've been doing. And I have a whistleblower, someone who's, but someone who's done a little dirt on my behalf, right, who do I turn to to kind of put things back together? Maybe out of bio now becomes the new waller. maybe she doesn't become quite the new Waller,

but she becomes somebody that the government goes, okay, at least for PR's sake, we put her in charge of things. And now it's Waller trying to undermine out of bio. Maybe it's not quite that clear, but it's sort of clear. I think Harcourt, Vigilani, and the rest of them, it's a little bit more direct what's happening with them.

When it's time for the next mission, they're going to saddle up. I think actually Harcourt and Peacemaker are going to be together, at least if not romantically, as like partners in per se crime or heroing or whatever. So wherever you get a call from Harcourt, I think peacemaker is going to be not too far behind. And we all know that Economos is just waiting to do anything other than supervised super criminals at Bel Reeve. So we'll see more of them. But I think the most interesting thread from that is going to be what is out of bios, place going to be because remember,

at a bio still to me is destined to become some version of her mother. Even with what she did right now, it was subversive. It was like she, she, it was redemptive, but at the same time, to me,

she's in the shit now. Like she could have quietly gone to her mom and been like, I don't want to do this anymore. That's just like, I don't believe in you. I don't believe in this. I don't want to do it anymore. But she chose to be loud, big.

It was basically like what Natasha did at the end of, at the end of, at the end of, uh, winter soldier. So she's in it now. There's no turning back. She can't go back and run her kennel no more. That's done. Like she, she can't do the,

she's in it now. And so we have to find out how deep in it she actually wants to go. Lastly, here before we do our, our quick season awards, how about the like larger DCE connective tissue and how much of that you want or don't want in season two of peacemaker. And really in like projects like this moving forward, so much of peacemaker was like this evergreen island where these characters felt not only disconnected from the rest of the DCU other than obviously other than the suicide squad movie that they were in and the gun made to the point where they had they were so far removed that they could

say these things about Superman and Batman and Aquaman, etc. And then we get, as you mentioned, in the finale, this partial Justice League cameo. Cyborg is not in the scene. Batman is not in the scene. Superman and Wonder Woman are there, basically in silhouette form. Aquaman and Flash are there and they speak.

Seeing these other DC characters was this like huge shift in our expectations for how the characters in Peacemaker might interact with the rest of the DCEU. Is that something you want to see more often? Is that something you just want the occasional dose of, or do you not want it at all in Peacemaker? Do you just want Peacemaker to be its own thing? It's the only part of the episode to me that didn't quite work. It worked, but it didn't quite work.

Because they haven't really created a universe where those characters really, like, fit in them. The original Suicide Squad movie has a cameo from Batman, right? And Batman seems to fit in that world because we see the Joker in that world. It's more akin to what Zach was doing a little bit. So they seem to fit in that world. The next Suicide Squad movie doesn't seem like it's in that same universe. It seems like it's in a completely different place,

even though it's like a not a direct sequel, but another iteration, a different adventure. And this world seems like it's more connected to that one. I mean, we consciously know that these characters exist, but still, they seem like relics from the Snyderverse

that are showing up in a movie that they don't belong in. But I think it's purposeful. The purposeful thing that I think is doing is, I think what we're going to see is D.C. defile their characters a little bit. I think D.C. wants to pull these characters off of the high horse.

I think the problem with some of the DC characters is that they seem almost hokey in their goodness. Iron Man super flawed. Thor is super flawed. Captain America, let's be honest. It doesn't seem like he is. He turned against everyone to help his friend who killed 81 shield people. Like he killed a lot of shield people.

81 was Loki's number. I'm just using it for him. He killed a lot. He did a lot of bad shit. I know he was brainwashed, ma'am. I know he was brainwashed. But, bro, you at least, dog, you at least got to wear an ankle monitor.

Like, you at least got to, come on, bro. You at least got to go on probation, dog. Like, I know a lot of people that have done a lot of stuff from Bat Rouge. Now, we at least got to put you on some supervisor. We got, we got a piss test, Bucky, at least twice a week. The cap was like nothing.

Cap was like, I'll take care of it. So all of these characters that do all of this different stuff, they seem like, you know, they're superheroes, to my point earlier, but they seem like three-dimensional, it's just harder for Superman and Wonder Woman to feel that way, Aquaman too. So I think having them show up and having Aquaman and Barry go back. By way, thank you, Ezra and Jason, for actually coming to the shoot. Thank you.

Like, thank you, guys, for showing up to the show. shoot. We appreciate you guys showing up to this shoot. I guess gal was filling up denial with champagne and Henry Cavill doesn't know where he's going to be. He's probably, he's not doing it anymore, so we don't know who Superman is. But I think having, because I'm thinking why would the DC people let Aquaman say fuck in this? Why would they let them have that little deal? Why would they do that, right? Batman, if you notice, is not there. But, like, why would they let them do that? Because I think they want to pull these characters down a little bit,

and they want to purposely get their feet just a little bit more dirty so that we can relate to them a little bit more and let them have a little bit more fun than some of the things that were going on in the Snyderverse were. And so I don't think D.C. meant to do it, but I think it was purposeful when they said yes. So I think that there, the more I thought about it, I'm like, it's actually a little cool seeing Aquaman and Flash go back and forth about whether or not Aquaman fucks fish. And they know that. They know that that's cool.

They don't quite fit in this show. But overall, I think it was still something that works out in the interest of the DCEU. Season awards. It's time to hand out the service. Perlatives. Best episode. Let's start there. It is. It's hard. It's super hard. Yeah. I ultimately went with Chapter 4 that showed less traveled because start to finish. I love that one. Vigilante's prison infiltration. Audubio starting to trust her instincts more fully. We get another judo master showdown in that episode. We learned that Peacemaker kept Gough alive in that episode.

we get that really, really strong, really affecting closing montage with many of the characters processing their loneliness, processing their pain, set to house of pain. And that's when we get those flashes of Keith's death, of Peacemaker's brother's death. And of course, that episode ends with the Mern reveal, the Mern Butterfly reveal, which is like an amazing cliffhanger.

So that's my pick for Best episode. but there were a few contenders here. It was hard, super hard. I went with six Mern After Reading. Yeah, great one. It had to me, like, everything that the show is about, you know, this is like two episodes after, you know, we learned about what's going on with Mern.

I guess two episodes or episode after what we learned was going on with Mern. To me, it was the show that, like, in a way, felt like the most constant. sequential of of the shows to me. And, you know, to me, it bridged, I started, so this is, this is, I'm babbling, but this was my problem with peacemaker. My problem with peacemaker, as much as I was enjoying it,

is I started to wonder, did they actually set enough traps to spring them? Were we going to get a conclusion that actually got us to some sort of resolution that we could be okay with? I was like, it seems like shit's just happening. I was like, oh, the butterflies this important or white dragon this important. The stakes didn't seem that high.

That changed to me in Mern after reading for a lot of reasons. That changed to me. It was a fun show to watch, but it seemed like week to week. I don't know if I was, I don't know if I was like, damn, like Loki, every single shot,

I was like, oh shit, what's going to happen? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Burn after reading is when that changed for me for this. So that's why I give it to Murn after reading. It's a great pick. How about best scene? Favorite scene from any episode?

Great question. Best scene. For me, there two. The economist's speech is probably the best scene in the entire show. That's my pick. The funniest scene in the show to me, I'm just going to throw it out there. is when Superman is talking about

when Peacemaker Talk says that Superman has a shit fetish. I don't know why that's so funny. Those are good stuff. Yeah. Hardcore is so pissed. She's like, where do you get this nonsense? Yeah. It's great.

And so I really enjoyed that. But I think it'd be hard pressed to beat the Economos scene. You can't beat it. Yeah. That's my pick as well for all the reasons that we talked about already. I mean, it just encapsulated so much of the show's mission with like that very peacemaker-specific brand of ribbing, leading to, and again, bullying, leading to then this really impactful moment

where the payoff is not just a laugh, but is actually this really heartfelt sequence with vulnerability on display and then lessons for the other characters. And it's not just what Economos shares. And I thought the performance was great there. It's what we see on those other characters' faces, just like well-written, well-acted, well-shot. I loved it, and it felt like a true culmination.

Other contender, I did consider picking peacemaker's apology to Eagley and their second hug in the penultimate episode because that was a lovely moment, but I just, I don't want to think about the pain that Eagley had to endure to give us that moment. And so I couldn't, I couldn't ultimately pick it. I just couldn't. Best fight.

Best fight to me is Peacemaker's Judo Master part two. Oh. Yeah. Wow. Why? Yeah. Because, yeah. So Peacemaker Judo Master number one is cool because we didn't realize how badass like Judo Master was.

Peacemaker Judo Master too is dope because I like it when the heroes realize what they're in for and they're ready. And they were really going at it. And Peacemaker was like he felt more confident. This is what I think this one established. This was Peacemaker sort of taking his show back almost because the first couple of episodes they were like bringing Peacemaker back down to Earth from where we saw him in the Suicide Squad.

But in this one we say, okay, this guy is actually lethal enough to be the muscle of this crew, which is essentially what he was. So I liked the peacemaker, the second fight between Peace Master and Juno Master, even though it was Peacemaker and Juno Master, even though Out of Bio interrupted it.

I'm going with that. Maybe this is recency. bias. I don't think so, though. I'm going with the finale fight because of what you said earlier. Like, every character is involved and every character has a big moment that feels not just like grand for the sake of spectacle, but true to their arcs inside of the season. And it's this just like great found family team building moment and payoff inside of this like rollicking blood, blood, fest of exploding corpses and vigilanteed slicing former fits his head in half and just saying like you're not going to hurt my BFF. It had everything. It had everything. I mean, that's the right answer, but I just decide to Zach. I love it. I love it. Favorite character.

I mean, should we say, should we just change it in the moment here to say, like, we have to each give a non-eagly pick because we know we're both going to say eagerly? It was eagerly, but that's fine. It's eagerly. It's obviously Eagley. It's the best. Right, right.

It's obviously Eagley. But in lieu of Eagley, I'll go Vigilani. That's my pick too. What a riot. Vigilani is so dope, bro. Vigilani. Vigilani is,

you know what? He reminds me of Dax. Yeah. Yeah. He reminds me of Dax in the way that he's like, this team's drags in a way that he's lethal. He's too stupid to be honest or either he's too smart to lie.

I'm not, excuse me, he's too stupid to lie or either he's too smart to be honest. I don't know which one it is. But he just is a living, breathing piece of purpose. Everything in his life is about the one thing. And everything else seems to be insignificant. get like on a whim he'll decide to go get arrested so he can kill peacemakers that like you know what i'm like on a whim he knows what he is supposed to be doing um and they actually use that to separate him a peacemaker remember because peacemaker said it's always a good time the rock and uh when they're coming back he's you know

after the decar rec or whatever he's turned up the the races are out there he's turning up the thing it's like it's always a good time there's always a good time the rock and peacemaker goes to no now now it's not a good time to rock so they actually separate peacemaker from vigilante and that peacemaker keeps going this way

but vigilante's going to stay where he's at and I dig him where he's at yeah that's totally with you he's just this like I love what you said about purpose he's like just this kind of propulsive force

of intention given form and he is like totally devoid of any sort of filter. He will just say anything that is on his mind. He, to the Drax point, is like so hyper literal that we get all of these moments of unintentional comedy with him. He is in some ways a more extreme and exaggerated version of Peacemaker, but then also is this interesting kind of counterweight and partner for him.

because he actually has the ability sometimes to, like, see an emotional truth and say something that Peacemaker is maybe more reticent to acknowledge. So, fascinating character. I'm really interested to see what they do with Vigilante in season two. I can't wait. Speaking of friendships, the dynamics in the show, one of the best parts of it, which is your favorite friendship of all the ones that we got to see develop and bloom? I'm going to go with Peacemaker out of bio. That's my pick too. Look at us.

Look at us. It's a great one. It's a great one. And I'm not going to be too long-witted here. I know that's hard for me, but it's among the best friendships I've seen developed in any fandom in a while. Yeah. Yeah, it was lovely. It's one person that can recognize the good, the other person, and then one person that can recognize sort of the inconsistencies of the other.

The Peacemaker starts to see out of bio for kind of what she really is. But there's no better friendships than friendships that can help people see sides of themselves that they maybe don't recognize but need to see. So that's why I say it's that. Yeah. Exactly. Well put. When we got that moment in the finale where Peacemaker says ads, don't tell V, but after Eagley, you're my BFF. And you can see that it's like actually really meaningful to her.

That was just lovely. Most shocking twist. Oh, it's kind of obvious, right? No? Am I wrong? It's the Murn reveal. It's Murn, right? It's got to be Murn being a butterfly.

Like, it's like, I guess you could say, you could, you could then go one step further and say the ensuing reveal that multiple members of the team were aware had figured it out new and were working with him. That was like a really fascinating evolution. Yeah, it was. like when I saw his tongue go down into that that amber like fluid, I just didn't know what it meant for the show. So I think that would have to be the most shocking twist. Man, and wear that all ultimately netted out, like the Mern's death,

devastating. Tough. Tough. Tough. Best suit. What's your favorite? All right, guys. Look.

Oh, no. It's a question and it has an answer. Oh, God. And it's not like I wanted to be this answer, but the best suit is clearly white dragons costume. Oh, my God. Van. It's the best suit.

I'm sorry. The best suit is, look, look, y'all, I know it's Black History Month, but the reality is that if we all can't. keeping it a buck, for me at least, the best suit is clearly White Dragon's costume. White Dragon's costume, it's functional, white dragon's costume. It was cool looking for it to be a white dragon of the KKK situation. But he's on the show.

So I'm going to go white dragon, man. It had power. It could fly. He was like a racist-ass-torn. About the gaps in the armor. Yeah. Gaps in the armor. He's not quite Tony, because I don't think Tony has any gaps.

But it's obviously white dragon to me. Oh, my God. Astonishing moment. I am going with vigilantes. I'm going with vigilantes. Vigilantes suit. I love the color scheme. You know, you don't get enough, you don't get enough like teal, as he'd be the first to say out there.

And I also like, you know, thinking about vigilante's origin. Obviously, none of us are going to, we're not going to pick Peacemaker's suit, which is, you know, like, deliberately kind of absurd. Vigilante, to think of him, like, kind of crafting that and forging the suit and the identity in his entire vigilante existence on his own with just the occasional bit of attention paid to him by Peacemaker is just really interesting to me. So he's my pick. Related question here. specifically the tech, coolest bit of tech. This can be from any other suit, any tech that we see in the butterfly encampment.

It can be the helmets, anything. So he had so many helmets. I mean, I could say that the coolest piece of tech was actually the white dragon suit because it kind of was. But I liked the X-ray vision helmet. Yeah, that's my pick too. The helmets make me think of like Hawkeyes. arrows, you know?

Yeah. All of the functionality. Yeah. Why can't you do one helmet that can do all of that stuff? I wonder why. It seems like that should be a part of the evolution of his tech. A little more, a little more versatility and functionality. So you're not carrying a literal duffel bag of alternate helmets with you everywhere.

Also, just going to throw this out there. Let's get some voice protection on these so that not anybody who's saying activate anti-gravity can activate anti-gravity. can activate anti-gravity. Because like, if you're in a fight and somebody knows that you're couldn't they just say anti-activate anti-gravity

and make you float away? I mean, maybe there's some, maybe there was some, you know, sequence where everybody in the team put their voice on it. Yeah, got the ability to work the helmets. But otherwise, it does seem like a vulnerability in battle.

Despite the fact that we lost the anti-gravity helmet, I would also throw that one in the mix. That seems cool, knowing that you need to use a handheld fan to maneuver while you're wearing it. Great stuff. Exactly. It's dope. Do you have a favorite needle drop, favorite song from the season?

Is it, do you want to taste it? Yeah, it's obviously. It's got to be. It was so fun to see it in the, we got it in the finale. We got it during the action sequence in the finale. They dropped the needle. Yeah. They dropped it in there.

Like, you know, I'm sure there'll be a. new song, that new song has a lot to live up to. Yeah, it's a high bar. But that's how we felt about Awesome Mix Volume 2 after Awesome Mix Volume 1, you know, in the Guardians universe. It was like, that's going to be a high bar to clear. You know, awesome mix volume 2 is really good.

Do you think that maybe they should leave it for season 2 and let us keep having maybe that's the song? I think the theme song has to stay and you'd maybe just do a new dance routine. Just doing a new dance routine. I think if you can hear us, right now. It'll feel like a phantom limb otherwise.

We'll just miss it too much. Yeah, because it's going to be too much for a new shot. Just leave. Let Whitwam keep eating, man. So this is one that we actually talked about in our midseason pod, favorite reference to other DC heroes. We were very partial to, as you've already mentioned, the Superman poop fetish,

and we were very partial to all of the Batman digs because we were genuinely astounded that those made it into the show. Is yours pick still Batman or Superman here at the end? I've switched. I am now, yeah, I think we just have to go with the Aquaman fish fucking routine because of the payoff we got. Like to see Beastmakers say you're late, you fucking dickheads, go fuck another fish asshole. And to see Aquaman hear that and then respond to it, I'm so fucking sick of that rumor.

And to see the Flash say, it's not a rumor. was it an incredible thing that happened? It was. Talked about it a little earlier. It is. It was like, it was nuts to see those characters. Oh,

where the Justice League, the bad is the truth of justice. We have a circle table. It was just crazy to see them in on the joke. It was dope. But let me tell you why I'm going to go with him digging at Batman to his neighbor. Because that shit is fucking facts. How about that?

that shit is facts and I'm not talking about anybody other than the Joker at least do this if you're not going to kill the Joker Batman at least stop using Arkham like when we're going to stop using Arkham like when we go send these guys

to ADX Supermax in Colorado or when we're going to build the raft or wouldn't we go fucking build a chamber under the sea and throw him in there put him in the prison Magneto was in Even though that's not good because Magneto got out of that bitch. But like, at least stop putting your faith in Arkham.

He's got the underwater world. The peacemakers got the underwater world helmet. He could go set up that underwater prison. Arkham ain't secure. They getting out. And so when he says, I don't have a whole coterie of villains. Yeah. It's because my bill is a six feet under.

Think about all the people. people. And so here's the thing. This is the last thing I think about this. The Joker don't be having no regular schemes. The Joker's schemes don't be like, I want you y'all to think about this. When y'all think about, man, you can't just kill the Joker.

I get it. I understand it's bad. But the Joker's schemes don't be like regular. The Joker be like, yo, I'm going to turn the whole world into paper airplanes. Every person on Earth. We've got to make it a human paper airplane to kill everybody. And Batman's like, why?

And he goes, like absolutely you know what I'm saying so you just keep letting him out to where he's trying to figure out how to turn everybody to a fucking paper airplane you ask him about it he laughs at your face at some point something's got to be done and so like that hit I watched that scene like four times that hit so hard to me it was it was an incredible sequence that I still can't believe we got in this show amazing all right there's only one place to end before we are joined by Steve Agee for our interview. And it is, of course, with Eagley. Favorite Eagley moment from the season, if you can possibly narrow it down to just one. It's so hard. Eagley is off the chain.

He's great. He's dope. He's awesome. He really is wonderful. But I'm going to do this because of my own my own relationship with my boy, Bozeman. Bozeman is a big dog. He's like, he's a burner doodle,

so he's like 100 pounds. So he'll do this thing where if I'm sitting right, here, Boleswood will come over and he'll jump up and put both of his paws on my shoulders because he's big enough. And it's like a doggy hug. He'll, he'll just look at me in my face a little bit. And he gets tired of my face. If he goes over, he starts licking the ear or he puts his hand on my shoulder.

And it's like a doggy hug. So I'm just getting down with Anna. It's precious. Yeah, he's like he puts both of his paws right here. That's so sweet. It was like a doggy hug. Like, hey, hey, dad. So I'm going with Eagley's hug, but the second hug.

Okay. The second hug where he's trying to get the selfie where Eagley is really consoling him. Yeah. But Eagley made me a tad bit emotional. Like, I love Eagley. Eagley's great. So I'm going with the second Eagley hug. That's mine.

I'm going with both hugs. And I think every Eagley moment is wonderful except for the ones where he's in harm's way, which I never want to see or think about again. And even the hugs, like, it is difficult because painful circumstances lead to both of those hugs. The very shitty care situation that he's in with peacemaker's father the first time leads to that moment of reunion and the embrace. And then, of course, he's in the, he's at the vet. He's at the hospital being cared for. And peacemaker's apologizing for letting harm befall him and not being a good enough friend to him the way eagerly has been to him.

So very painful circumstances. But the actual moments of the hug, the moments that they shared, I was the same, like, one of the most wonderful parts of my day every day is when my darling boy, my cat halo curls up in my arms. And he's little. So he'll just like roll. I mean, he's big for a cap, but he'll like roll up like a little donut just in my elbow nook and just like nuzzle against me. And I'm like allergic to him. I take allergy medicine every day, but I don't care because I fucking love him so much. and I'll just sleep with like my face against him

because he's he's the best. So this is, we are of the same crazy. So when we first get Bozeman, the doctor goes, hey, Van, you're allergic to the dog. But there are four months in, it's like a little allergy. It's enough to just bother you a little bit. But he was like, so I have to recommend that you move the dog. I was like, yo, I feel like that dish was fucking speckful.

Like, let's figure out whatever. I was like, I'll come in here and take a shot every week. But I'm not going to. getting rid of the dog. The dog is my fucking soul mate. The dog is like, I'm not getting rid of the dog. I was like, it's like, Doc, have you ever been laying down to sleep

and then felt something warm on your cheek and then woke up and saw a dog staring at you? I'm not getting rid of the fucking dog. I was like, no, I don't care. It is the purest love. It is the purest love. It really

is. Oh my God. And on that note, speaking of pure loves, let's talk to John Economos, Steve Age. Absolutely. Let's do it. This episode is brought to by Borris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means

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Save at Whole Foods Market. Why did he color his beard all strange like that? He thought it made him look younger and more handsome. He never had a girlfriend, so he thought dying his beard. But he was also lazy and busy with his job, and he wouldn't die his roots regularly. The cheapest, mostly, though, he never thought anybody noticed. We are delighted to be joined now by a true PowerPoint enthusiast. He is quick with a chainsaw. He knows that with two thumbs, anything is possible. It is John Economos himself.

Steve Agee, welcome into the ringerverse. Steve. Connemus, mother, ever. Thank you for joining us today. We were so excited to talk to you about the finale, this awesome season. We'll just roll right in. Yeah. Let's start with the finale because it's a big finale for our guy, economists.

He gets to hit every beat in the finale. He infiltrates the barn in diarrhea-soaked, stolen pants. his leg explodes, but he finds a way to care for his teammates anyway. He delivers an incredibly emotional speech and reveal about his beard, but really about loneliness and longing. Which beat was the most satisfying for you when it came to concluding John's season one arc, or was it the mix of all of that that made it really special? It was the whole episode.

You know, I had my eye on that. the beard scene, the justification of me having my beard, which was amazing. That was actually maybe the most satisfying because I've had to dye this beard off and on for two years because of, you know, suicide squad. I showed up and James is like, I think I want him to dye the beard. And I was like, oh, okay. I don't like, I normally, I don't like having a beard usually. And I was like, oh, all right.

And he's like, and I want it like, obviously. obviously died. I want it like an unusually dark color for your red hair. He's like, I just, but we never, it's never addressed in the movie because I mean, it's, you have two hours and a lot of characters to cover. So it's, I'm just a dude with a gross beard. And I thought it was funny, but like, you know, when we rap at the end of the day, everyone goes home and takes off their costume. And I still have this stupid beard and I'm going to Whole Foods and Starbucks and I know I look like an idiot. And it was never justified.

And then we came back for Peacemaker. And he's like, I wanted to be more obviously died. He's like, I want to see the roots. I was just like, oh, my God. Okay. And then it was, it really was a theme. And it was the butt of all of peacemakers' jokes. And then I read the final episode.

I was like, well, thank God this at least pays off and in an emotional and like really amazing way. So I guess I'd have to, the action stuff has been fun. Killing a gorilla with a chainsaw has been fun. But like, I think the beard thing, just having it pay off. And I'm curious to actually see where we go with my beard now in season two. I think the beard is great. And the moment was wonderful. The moment was fantastic.

So I've noticed something about a conference. most. And it's interesting. So when you see the team as it's laid out, everybody had a role. And as a viewer, sometimes, I would wonder what John's role was, right? So Peacemaker was the muscle.

Atabio was the newbie who's only there because of her mom. Hard court was the city one. Mern was the leader. But when you look back at the season, a lot of the real huge hero moments, our Economos showing up.

Saves the day. Yeah, like our Econimo showing, and even at the end this guy's leg explodes, they send him in, he puts a split on his leg, look at he split, and then gets over to care for hard court. Is that kind

of what James Gunn sold you on for the role? Did you know that this guy was going to be the sneaky hero of the day? Or did, just one day as you're reading your scripts, you go, holy shit, I'm the man.

He didn't tell me all that stuff. He just said, we're doing a spinoff with Peacemaker. Economists and Harcourt are going to be back. And he's like, we have eight episodes. So we really get to explore. He basically sold me as saying, we're going to explore all these characters and give them arcs. And I was like, okay, I mean, I would have been in anyway because it was, you know, the height of the pandemic and nobody was working. So it was a job.

And I was like, yes, I'm in. And then he gave me the scripts. And then he gave me almost all of them at once. And I think I stayed up the whole night reading him. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm not just sitting at a computer. Like, he's the tech guy. He's the computer guy.

But by the way, it is bizarre that I'm the tech guy. And I don't know how to do PowerPoint. But that's beside the point. Put your own artistic touch on it. You know, it had a lot of personal. Yeah. And yeah, I was amazed. And like, it really got me excited once I got the script. And, you know, there were certain episodes and scenes where I marked them in my calendar. Like, this is the day. April, you know, 17th, I'm going to kill a gorilla with a chainsaw. You know, May 18th, I'm going to gun down a bunch of racists. This is the best. But yeah, I, before I read the scripts, I thought I was just coming into, you know, sit in the headquarters at a computer again. So I was really stoked with this.

Do you have either like a very strong memory of in the moment filming a certain scene that stands out as your favorite or now looking back? Like whether it was a favorite moment for your character in particular or just the favorite moment to film and to share with the rest of the castmates? There's a bunch of them in the finale. I mean, the stuff with the Justice League was. it was mind-blowing just to shoot because they you know it was it wasn't all C-G we had a guy in a Superman suit hanging from a crane and it's like holy shit I can't wait to see this you know digitally enhanced and like that was great because James just looks so happy I've worked with James on like four or five projects now and

I've never seen him so thrilled as well. when we were shooting that whole episode, really, but that scene, he was just like, this is amazing. And yeah, pretty much everything, I mean, shooting all the racists with a machine gun. It was my first time firing a machine gun. And they were all squibbed.

And so when their squibs went off, it was a windy day. And you can see it in the episode, like all the blood mist just like covers me. It's like a Tarantino movie. Yeah, totally. I mean, everything in this, you know, every episode was memorable to shoot for me. It was incredible.

The thing about peacemakers, it's like a, it's almost like a kick in the balls to the earnest superhero story. Like, throughout this entire run, we get some of the most crass, direct shots at the Justice League that you could ever get. It became, they just got funnier and funnier. Yeah. Like, as the story went on. You're kind of the guy of the group. You're the group's guy. So do you feel like this show was almost about economists becoming a superhero?

Or was it showing what just a guy can fucking do when all of this craziness and superhero stuff is going on? What's going on? I think for me, it was economists being just a dude who's very much like myself, a guy who's more comfortable indoors at a computer and really does want to go out and does want to get into adventures. Like you see it in like the second or third episode when Atabio comes back in and they've been shot at and she's super amped up. And she's like, we got shot at.

Have you ever been shot at? And you can see me super. super dejected going. So forlorn. No. So clearly my guy has his comfort zone. And, you know, pretty much the whole arc for me in this season has been about me having being forced to step out of my comfort zone.

And, you know, economist is non-confrontational. And, you know, beating down judo master or. or going into an unknown situation with a gorilla and a chainsaw. Like, he would much rather stay inside. You can see him every time he has to walk out to save everybody's ass. He's just like, fuck, fuck, fuck. It's all about this guy growing and realizing that he can contribute and participate in these adventures and step out of his comfort zone.

Speaking of stepping out of one's comfort zone and contributing in a group setting, I think we would be remiss if we did not ask about the dance. in the opening credits, which are like genuinely iconic, instantly iconic among fans of the show and fans of the genre. Yeah. How long did it take for everybody to learn to dance? I think we got to get a little bit of a glimpse of it because that's fun little

making of featureette on HBO Max. But what was it like to actually participate in that? Do you have a favorite dance move from the routine? Do you find yourself like reflexively breaking out into a dance move every time you hear the song now? I'm so over the song. Everyone I talk to, all of my friends are like, oh my God, that song is just stuck in my head. I'm like, I'm like, I had to listen to that song so many times rehearsing the dances

and then shooting that whole scene for a day. Like it was easily just like, okay, that's done. It was really fun. It's an amazing scene. And it's, you know, James has said he wanted to. he wanted people to sit through the credits and see who made this. And because these are all important people. And so he had the idea to do this dance scene that would hopefully,

A, keep people from skipping the opening credits, but B also, just to let you know that this show has no, like, limits or boundaries, like, we'll do anything. And, yeah, we probably had like six or seven rehearsals leading up to it. like whenever we have a day off, we'd have to go in and in like groups of two or three to the production office and spend it about an hour with Carissa Barton, who is our choreographer. And so it was probably about six hours worth of rehearsals over the course of about two months. And then the day before we got to go to the set that they had built and spend a few hours

actually rehearsing it on set. then the next day we just walked in. And by that time, everyone kind of had their dance moves down. And honestly, this was, it was the thing I was dreading the most when I, when I got the, when I got the scripts, because I have no rhythm. I'm so uncoordinated. And I was just like, I was like, that was the scariest thing that I read in the scripts was like knowing that I had to dance.

Oh, man. And also, by the way, after this season and some of the losses of some of the characters, All I'm thinking is we're going to have to do a new fucking dance number for season two. So Steve, I want to say some, number one, you're wrong about the song. You can't listen to the song enough. I didn't even know who wigwam was. I had no idea how you come up with that. And then like, I'm looking at the, I love the song.

I haven't skipped. I've watched every peacemaker episode. It is a good song, yeah. I haven't skipped the intro once. Yeah. And even last night. night, my girl is like, you're not going to go past this? I'm like, no. This is part of it. No, it's part of it. Yeah. We're going to recreate it for our ringer versus Instagram.

You want to hear something amazing about wigwam is, I mean, this is a band that's been around for like 20 years or more. And, you know, with any band that's been around that long, you come through highs and lows and, you know, relevance with your genre and stuff. and three days before our show dropped, you know, on HBO, three days before Wigwam's management company dropped them. They fired them. They're like, this isn't working out. Nothing's happening.

They fired them. And then three days later, our show came out. And it's like, you know, the number one. And they're back on tour now and like doing great because of it. Fantastic. I have a question for you about James Gunn. Yeah. What is it about James Gunn's style that just initiates the fun like this? When I remember sitting down watching Guardians going, yo, man, I've read this comic book before.

I know these characters. They're cool, but I should not be having this much fun with them. I shouldn't. And Peacemaker himself is not a very big. a laugh if you're aware of the source material from the comic books, but he took this guy who is kind of a psychotic killer and turned him into a lovable, fun, three-dimensional character. Where does James Guns Magic come from? First of all, James knows more about comic books than anybody I know. I'm constantly shocked when he introduces a character like judo master or even just mentions a character in an episode like Batmite or Karmite.

hype man or like in the suicide squad with Nathan Phileans, a detachable kid who's based on a character I think called Arm Fall Off Boy. James likes taking lesser known entities out of the comics like the Guardians of the Galaxy. I had never heard of them. And, you know, James wants to make it funny, which I think he wants to be his first James first, you know, order of business with a script is the character development and the relationships. And once he's got that down, you know, he wants to add jokes and because you joke around

with your friends. And he wants to make it, he wants to make his shows more grounded in kind of a realistic world. What I love about the peacemaker world is that we are in a world where Batman, and Superman, but Peacemaker's not, he's not a metahuman. He has no superpowers. He's a very flawed, strong guy who's

good with a gun, but we're in his world now where he's dealing with demons and and it's a world where you see us at a restaurant or you see him in a bar. You never see Superman in a bar or, you know,

ever see these characters going to the bathroom. We're in a world where you could see him sitting on the toilet. And, you know, he wants to make it as grounded. And I think that makes it a lot more relatable to audiences. But James has a great sense of humor. Like, I'm constantly just amazed that he's, you know, has never, like, written like a sitcom or anything. Because his stuff is really funny. But he loves to keep it light and have fun.

And he likes working with a lot. of the same people because he knows what he's going to get and how much fun he's going to have. So, yeah, he has a much different approach than like a Christopher Nolan or somebody who, who or like a Zach Snyder whose superhero worlds are a lot more dark and brooding and violent, which I love. I love Nolan. I love Zach Snyder. But I love all sorts of genres, you know.

I love that James can put in a dance number and, you know, ridiculous jokes and stuff like that. I'm really curious having worked with him and inside of this fictional universe and this character set, both in a movie and now on a television show, what really stands out to you as the big differences creatively? And like specifically what does the television and like now this is this great streaming era that we're in? What does that afford creatively? What opportunities does that present for exploring the characters? Well, first of all, I think James is going to do a lot more TV after this experience. He had so much fun.

And I think he liked the freedom of, you know, I mean, the whole reason we did peacemaker is because when we did Suicide Squad, a lot of the characters had their arts like, you know, rat catcher and bloodsport and Rick Flagg. I mean, who met with a horrible outcome, but like, we saw all these people change. Peacemaker started off a piece of garbage and it ended with him being a piece of garbage. Like, there was no arc. We didn't know anything about him. And so James wanted to explore that more other than like, why did you have this jerk in your movie? You know, we saw what motivated Idris's character. And so James wanted to.

show that with peacemaker and also our characters like my character and harkort um and with eight episodes that's eight hours where you can really let the scenes breathe and explore all these characters you know suicide squad was two hours and you had like five or six main characters and you just can't you just don't have the luxury of giving them all their due. And so he's finding that with TV, he can not only give the main character an arc, he can give all the secondary characters arcs and sub-archs and I think that's the best part of doing the series

is you can explore these characters a lot more deeply. This is my last question. Peace Mercury has obviously introduced a brand new hero, a brand new superhero to comic book fandom, right? And of course I'm talking about Eagley. What was it like... Our favorite. What was it like working with Eagley?

What were his methods like? What can you tell us about the new runaway, runaway, star of television. What was he like on set? Eagley, oddly, at the very beginning, was very humble and really shy, you know. It was his first gig. By the end, he had his own trailer.

He had specific, you know, stuff in his writer. Like, he had to have dead rats, fresh dead rats in his... Lots of chip bags to crinkle. Yeah. I mean, the reality was, you know, I never saw Eagley. They would occasionally put a stick on a base plate and say, this is where Eagley is. Now pretend that Eagley is there.

You know, I didn't see, you know, a rendering of Eagley until, you know, just actually a few months ago. And I was like, oh, my God, there, that is an eagle. Like, I can't like after seven months of shooting, I finally saw Eagley. Incredible. Eagleie's the best. People love Eagley. He's an icon. We love him.

And he might not be there on set, but he's always here in our hearts. Always in our hearts. And that's what counts. Okay. To wrap here, because we know we only have a minute or two left and you've been very generous with your time. Rapid fire lightning round to wrap here. Okay, I'm going to hit you with the trio.

Take them in any order you want. Pick just one. Up to you. The stingers are extended scenes, extended comedic bits. Was there any extended scene or other joke, sequence, anything that didn't end up making the season? A cut that you wish had made it, a favorite cut of yours. That's rapid fire number one. Rapid fire number two.

This is the most long-winded least rapid rapid fire of all time here. No, this is good. I like this. Season two, confirmed. Congrats. We're all light. Thank you. What can we expect?

And what are you hoping for from the 11th Street kids when they reconvene? And then certainly back to the DC cameos and the running dunks on the other DC heroes throughout, you are involved in many of the sequences where those characters are being dunked on. But part of it is also that you say at one point, you'd rather be with Harley-Klin, you'd rather be with the weasel, you'd rather be with Bat-Bite. you end up in a sequence with part of the Justice League, looking ahead to season two, potential crossover events,

which DC character are you most hoping to share a scene with? I have opinions on all of these, so I'll address all. Amazing. Pretty much everything that we wanted to get into the show, as far as the stingers at the end credits, made it in. The only thing I can think of that I wish would have been there

is that that scene where I, I've framed Peacemaker's father and he's yelling at me of other people I could have framed instead of his dad. We show the stinger for that and the extended scene.

That is still not all the names that John Sina was yelling. I think there's probably a few more minutes of names. So I would love to see a super cut of that. Season two, I, the only things I'm sure of and it's not many is something different has to happen with

economists's beard like now that we've addressed it I don't know if I'm just going to be in my normal gray beard now or a nicely dyed beard or no beard I'm not sure where that goes but I know the beard will be different I say that it's a scoop you heard it here first folks I honestly don't. Maybe he'll just keep doing it and then no one will mention it. And then the other thing, which I think I mentioned earlier,

is we'll have to do a new dance number. They'll have to be a new opening sequence since we're missing some characters. As far as other characters, I personally want to see Batman. He's a two-foot-tall Batman stalker, basically. Yeah.

I would love to see James, and I know he could do it. I know he could, you know, through the help of either legacy or Weta or something, he can make a bat might happen. I would love to see that. Or another character that was mentioned was Matter Eater Lad, which is a character. Dan was excited about that. Yeah. You can eat and literally eat anything. And it's such a deep cut.

Like you have to be like James is crazy, man. I haven't thought about matter eater lad since I was like 16 years old. Like that's such a deep cut, man. See, I'm shocked that you know about. I had never heard of matter eater lad. I thought I was hearing him say it wrong. I was like, did you just say matter eater lad? So I kind of, any one of these characters I would love to see or love to, you know, work with any of those Justice League characters I would love to have come back.

you know, I would love to, yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to see any of the Justice League come back because, you know, we, like I said, we are in this weird little part of the world. We're in Evergreen, Washington, and, you know, out there somewhere is Metropolis and, you know, in Gotham, and I would love to see these characters some more. would love to explore them some more and and also, you know, peacemakers' delusional ideas of who these people are because, you know, clearly Aquaman doesn't fuck fish, you know, this is all showing Sina's gullible, you know, like, Peacemaker is a guy who goes on Facebook. We've addressed it a lot and literally believes anything he reads, which is why he has all these shitty opinions of, you know, the Justice League or any other, you know, any other thing. So I would love to see a world where he kind of comes to.

I would love to see a world where they have their comeuppance. And he's like, okay, you don't fuck fish or I don't know. I would be happy to work with any one of them. I would love to work with Viola. And I wish Waller would, you know, she was very busy. I'm glad we got some cameos from her. but I'd love to have her back. She was really fun to work with.

Steve, thank you so much for joining us on the Ring ofverse today. Thank you so much for your time. And good luck with season two, man. We can't wait. Protect Eagley. Thanks, guys. I'll talk to you next season. No problem.

Peace, brother. Bye. All right. That was a blast, but Goff is here for a visit now. So it's time to wrap today's episode. Thank you to our dove of peace, Steve Allman, for producing this episode. to our butterfly catcher, Arjuna M. Gapal, for his additional production work on this episode.

An 11th Street kid, Jomea Denneron, for his work on the social media for this episode. Be sure to head back into the ringerverse next Wednesday for a brand new episode of The Midnight Boys. Pugh! Pugh! Until then. Don't tell V. But after Eagley, you're RBFF. Feels like every product claims real protein these days.

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