The Ringer-Verse - Robert Downey Jr. Returns! Marvel and More From San Diego Comic Con | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: July 28, 2024

The boys report live from San Diego to tell all about the latest news from the biggest convention in fandom! They start with the Marvel Hall H panel and the biggest news from the MCU (07:57). Later, they do a post mortem on 'Deadpool & Wolverine' with Steve (70:42). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Steve Ahlman and Jomi Adenerian Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight. Which streamer is on the brink of collapse? And which executive is on the hot seat? Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again?

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Like, comment and subscribe. Bye. Every Sunday, Talk to Thrones will be up right after the latest episode of Hot D ends. Monday. The Midnight Boys give their instant reactions to Hot D. This Tuesday button mash returns to talk about Star Wars outlaws. New video game, right? James Skiddle, you played it.

I did. Thoughts? You can find out on Munmash. You don't like it. Also, this Tuesday, House of R will be deep diving into House of the Dragon. But we're not talking about any of that stuff. No. No, man.

All that stuff is the current. Some of it's the past. We're talking about the future because we're here at Comic Zekhan. Whole motherfucking age. Okay, so we're going to do two things here. Okay. we're going to get into what happened at Hall H with Marvel and some of the other stuff that went on

and doing it. Give our basic pains of comic comment. Then at the end, I want to get Steve, who's back with us. I want to get his thoughts on Deadpool versus... We need a midnight meter. Deadpool and I just want to say really quick for the fans. I don't understand. We love y'all because getting up in that motherfuckerah

Hall H was... Well, I was saying, I'll tell the story. Actually, you know what? Steve told me. I give Steve credit for this. No, Steve was the matter. Mastermind, like Steve, the architect, Alman, he can never get things quite right, right? All right. Because like, right, Steve, Steve, this whole day was Steve.

Steve was the leader. Steve is kind of our Charlie Brown a little bit. Steve was the man to him. He was the man, but like, it was rough. So we didn't have access to the Marvel panel. I'm sorry, guys. They were like Coke, baby Chuck. Get the fuck out of it.

We didn't have it. And just let y'all know, it was honestly motherfuckers that were waiting out there to get into that panel since Wednesday. And I guess my thing is, how does that work? How does it work? They don't clear everybody out. No, they definitely clear each other out.

Steve? So from what I know and from what I've gathered from all of them. You're Steve? You said. You said. You said. You said. What was that.

bro. Let me tell you what's this happened. So Steve forgot his mic. After badgering us to remember our mics, he had a lot on his mind. He forgot his mic. I just hand my mic to Steve and Steve snatch my shit.

Nigna, take my shit gently. Hey, yo. Hey, hey. Hey. Hey. Whoa. Paul. Guys were a sex positive podcast.

If Van wants to, Steve, to take it gently. This run back is great from you. All right. So, no. the way that the line that has worked, like this is our first Comic-Con

from everybody here. This is my first San Diego, yeah. So this is... Okay, so when I was talking to a couple of other folks from the press and a couple of other people that were attending and it goes like, it's a massive operation San Diego Comic-Con. So people have been lining up for days to get to the Hall H panel that is supposed to be like the last day or for Saturday.

So they like line up for hours, they get ticketed for the event and then they go away and then come back because then you'd have people camping out for like three days straight. So they'd just camp out for the day, get there a lot of tickets, then come back. Because Hall H is like 6,000 people strong. It was incredibly impressive. So we were able to sit and stay for a minute if we were sitting with the general population. Yo, shout out the penguin.

Hey, yo, my boys that hooked us up. Penguin coming on HBO Max. We're really excited. So Steve came up with a master plan that because we have access to the penguin, screening or the Hall H thing. It was great. Because they clear the press out. Steve,

tell them what you tell. Yeah. So, yeah, so like each press, it's like a highly sought after van because you're in the front row. The presses are in the front rows of Hall H. So big, exciting things are going to happen. So everybody who doesn't have access to a certain panel in the press,

they get kicked out. But the people that stay here, the 6,000 plus that are in the, that are just behind it, they can sit and stay as long as they want. So long as they don't leave and get up. Like, here's a thing. It was some real oceans,

11 shit because Joey was at the Star Trek panel he's like all right we're gonna get it it was like literally one midnight boy would go search for a seat we usher you I'm like another minute he's like all right you gotta go find a seat it was it was great

was a lot bro was it Steve or Jomey then who came up with the master's no no no no Steve had to Steve had the master plan if you were the Wuteang but I scoped it out yeah Jomey was you got that's crazy shout out to you got

y'all you got book was great you got is great Van you go Ghost face. Definitely ghost face. All that angel just is talking. I'm like, what's going on, Van? Anyway, can we get to Hallage? Yeah, Halley's.

Okay, so we get through the Pingoon panel, which was fantastic. Lots of really incredible stuff. Can't wait for Penguin. Van! What? I actually want to watch Penguin. I will say this.

This is actually not me capping. I've been real on the podcast. I'm going to fuck about the Penguin. they showed us the trailer. I was like, it's gonna be a good show. It's got to be a good show. It's gonna be a good show.

It's gonna be a good show. All right, but we're not gonna keep you guys any longer. By now, everyone is listening to this knows the big news. We're gonna start at the top. Three different properties.

Actually, five different properties were announced, and we got a little insight into Fantastic Four, Captain America Brave New World, Thunderbolts, and then two Avengers movies. We're gonna start with the two Avengers movies

because this is where the biggest reveals I feel like were made. Number one, Avengers Secret Wars is the second movie to come out. I think everybody knew that. Not a big secret. No longer, no King Dynasty. No King Dynasty.

King Dynasty is out because King as a character is out. The last introduction after the Russo Brothers who are coming back to direct was the fact that the movie before Avengers Secret Wars will be Avengers Doomsday with Dr. Doom as your main antagonist and Dr. Doom will be played by Robert Donnie Jr. Yep.

Who formerly played Iron Man? I don't know if you guys know that. Lots of reactions to that. When I first tweeted from Hall-Lay's, people didn't even fucking believe that I was being for real. I didn't even, here's the thing. The Russo Brothers, we got the greatest actor of all time. I was like,

motherfucker who? Because I was like, and then when the Dr. Doomass came off and it was Robert Dowdy Jr. I legitimately had no idea because when they said that I'm like, who would they call the greatest actor of all time?

Who was in the running? I was like, they didn't get Daniel Day Lewis on this shit, right? I was thinking that, I was thinking like Anthony Hopkins or something. I was so far back, Robert Downey's Jr. face looked like a light-skinned black man.

I'm like, well, light-skinned. Let's let you know. Just let you all know. Just let you know. So far back. The press seats, oh, that Terrence Howard would have been crazy. Next time, thank you.

Like, Terrence Howard could actually play Dr. Doom. He actually is Dr. Doom at this point. That would have been nuts. So the press seats are in the front. Just so everybody knows, the seats that were still available because we all had to sit apart

were all the way in the back. So we're looking, we're trying to see what was going on. And when I saw it was him, I thought it was, for a split second, I thought it was a gag. And then it wasn't. I knew it was him off the rip

because I've been a fan a long time. The way he carries himself his walk, as soon as they split the Doctor Dooms and he took like two steps forward, I was like, yo, don't do this, bro. Y'all not for real, man. And then he takes the mask off and the place went crazy.

Steve? I think it's really something to behold when a fervent and rabid fan base is activated like that in Haleigh. because everybody's talked about how legendary that crowds have reacted and how big news has dropped there from the MCU and other shows past

where it's a big reaction and see I have to admit that like that was something special. It felt special in the moment to see that reaction to see Robert Donner Jr. return in that room was really, really fucking awesome. Does that...

Not I was tight. From us that were in the room was that not the vibe. That was awesome. Okay. Charles has his mic down. Well, Charles don't care about nothing. So he's dead inside.

So we don't really matter. No, y'all got this. Y'all continue. It don't really matter. It was tight. It was tight as hell. Vin? How are you feeling in the room?

You know, Marvel's Hall-Age panel is so amazing. This is the best week for Marvel in a long, long time. No matter what you thought about Deadpool and Wolverine, as we sit here right now, the movie looks to make over $400 million to the worldwide box office. That is a ridiculous shot in the arm to the MCU, no matter how you look at it, right? And then for me, we'll get into what we thought about some of the other movies in a second.

For me, the three films that we saw footage for, because there was footage, even for the Fantastic Four, I think it was like test footage or something like that. All of the stuff did what it's supposed to do in that type of setting,

which gives you, gave you a clear tone and a clear direction of what the movies are supposed to be. Sometimes when I would look at films like the Marvels and stuff like that, which Marvel is a movie I did not hate, I would look at them and be like, it's kind of hard to see what they're trying to do here.

Like, how is it supposed to go with their... But I felt Brave New World. I felt what they were going for in Thunderbolts. Thunderbolts actually got me kind of excited, I'll be honest with you. I was so down on Thunderbolts and then I saw some of the footage. They kind of basically gave us the first trailer. Speaking to what you're saying, between Captain America, Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four, just tonally, it seems like Marvel has been listening.

seems I'm like, oh, these are different. You guys are honed in. It doesn't seem distracted. I can tell you guys have a story to tell him. You are focusing. They all have it. They all have a distinct, distinct, even Thunderbolts and Brave New World, which are kind

of existing in the same, on the same Marvel menu of closer to street level characters, even though the century is in the Thunderbolts. Even those two movies, they still felt tonally very different.

Yes. Even though they are both grounded, and we will get into more of this, but we're going to get back to Avengers, I did feel like what the MCU has gotten away from is like when they were going on that run, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy,

Black Panther, all felt different. They felt like different worlds, even aesthetically, all of those things. And I started with the stuff that we got today, getting that feeling of like, this doesn't feel like the same shit. it feels like they are trying to make these movies distinct again

and like just sell you on a vibe. So after we get that, we'll come to all of those movies individually, you got the Robert Dyn Jr. reveal, which we talked about. And that was after they had already announced that the Russo brothers were returning, which we expected. I wasn't expecting them. I hadn't heard much about the pivot to Dr. Dune.

And then they bring out Robert Dyn Jr., let's just get into it. Steve, you first. Your thoughts on Robert Dynion Jr. returning to the MCU. It's tough because the idea of that is exciting. I feel like to me, the vibe got more exciting as the entire Doom announcement was happening because they started with making it the Russo Brothers returning.

They make a sizzle reel that's basically, hey, you remember all the movies that the Russo Brothers directed? Guess what they're back? And they say it in the same font that, like, like Thor will return at the end of a Marvel movie where they're like, the Rousseau's have returned. And it's, they're really selling it. And then they announced the Doom stuff.

It's Secret Wars. And then Robert Donnie Jr. And the crowd goes crazy. And it's the type of vibe that is set off where I'm like, something clicks in my brain where I'm like, oh my God, Deadpool, this. They're going to buy their way out of debt. Marvel is going to be spending so much money on the things that they think they know still work

in order to get back the good graces of everything that they think they've been stumbling from. You say that like it's a problem. I'm not saying that it's a problem. I'm saying that some people in the comments of tweets and TikToks that we've already seen are is that they're not looking to innovate. They're looking to bank on what's safe. And I'm not saying that that's a bad thing. I'm just saying that that's where they're headed.

That's the North Star that is where they're going. That's what I take from a finale like that, from a panel like that. What do you guys say? So there's already some interracial fighting going on between Jomey and Steve. Jomey you disagree with Steve. Can you – this is a safe space. I don't think I disagree with Steve. I don't think I disagree.

I think my – so my standing on it is that it's cool as hell. I love it. I'm all the way. I'm all the way in on it. You can argue about desperation or whatever the hell. hell on that side, but we've kind of as a, as a comic book, as MCU, if you got it's been like, ah, it's not hitting the same. You got to, we got to fix something out.

You know what I mean? And ultimately, right? They're like, yo, play the hits. Let's run it back. Let's just, let's bring, let's bring the band mat together. Rousseauce, come on down. Rupert, come on down. Let's run it back.

I'm here for it. You are hopping on is so egregiously right now. And I'm bouncing on it. I'm slurping. I don't give a single. flying fuck. This is. I don't give a shit.

Lurping on it. I don't give a... I don't give a... I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck. This is not because it's like, this happens all the time. It happens all the time.

It happens all the time. We talked about... What happens all the time? We talked about this, uh, maybe on another podcast. But when the lake, when Phil Jackson left the Lakers, yeah, they brought him Rudy.

That wasn't working. Rudy Tom, Tom, this, yeah. And it was like, yo, Phil. Please. Come on now. Let's stay there, boys. This is Steve Nash, Dwight Howard? It's not.

It's not. But let's stay there for a second. Let's stay there for a second. Okay. So let's expand that for a second. What's one of the reasons Phil left? One of the reasons Phil left was because he had grown a little weary of the whole thing. His relationship with Kobe Bryant wasn't the best.

He actually wrote a book saying that he couldn't coach Kobe Bryant, right? Yeah. Then Phil went out into the wild, discovered that he still had a love for basketball, wanted to coach again. Kobe matured a little bit. And then what happened was he came back to the Lakers and they went made to three finals, won two championships. Okay. Um, so in the absence, things changed. In the absence, things changed. Kobe matured a little bit. Phil, discovered that he didn't have, it wasn't for him to leave basketball just yet. That's kind of the same thing that's happening here.

Robert Dine Jr. left Marvel. He had to accomplish all the things that he wanted to accomplish with Marvel. Two things happened. One, Dr. Doolittle. And then two, the Oscar. The Oscar. Dr. Doolittle probably scared him a little bit

into believing that maybe audiences aren't to the point yet, well, they'll run out and support anything just because he's in it. He has had other hits and been... I mean, he had Sherlock, but that was during the Iron Man running. Right.

And then the Oscar means that a huge milestone in his career has been achieved. So that actually gives him the freedom to be wacky. Something happened on that stage. That's who Robert Downey Jr. is. When Robert Downey Jr. took off

that mask and the crowd and Hall H went wild, that's what RDJ likes. You see him, he's a fantastic performer. He has a sympathizer that's on HBO right now.

It's a great show as well. He's a fantastic performer, but he's a ham. He hams it up. He likes that. He loved being Iron Man. I'm sure at a point it got to be taxing for him,

but more than anything, he probably needed a break, right? And so to see him up there and to see that reception, he probably missed that. And now it's not like he is a second-rate actor doing that for the rest of his life because he just won an Academy Award.

So I think from that standpoint and from the standpoint of the Rousseau's, who probably had a similar thing happen to them, and from Marvel, I think it's not completely fresh and new, but I think five years or six years or seven years or whatever it'll be off from the Marvel grind for all of these people means that you might get some vigor in them that you wouldn't have got if they would have never left.

So to me, just because these are people that we know already, I don't understand the mindset that means it has to be creatively bereft or it has to not work just because they're known entities. I want to preface this

by saying throughout the Marvel panel, because we got, I believe, did they start with Captain America? The photo of cap. Yeah. And then went to Thunderbolts. Captain America Thunderbolts, fantastic for, I actually, before we got to the Avengers stuff, I was going to be very, very positive because I think I, a lot of what I saw.

I was, I was impressed by. Van, you kind of already stepped on a little bit. But I do think this is one of the most creatively banked up things that Fige and Co., the MCU could do. at this point, and I thought this when I was watching Deadpool and Wolverine, the beginning of the spoilers for Deadpool and Wolverine, when Deadpool basically is doing the bye-bye-bye dance

and is whipping around Logan's skeleton from Logan, and they're making basically fun of this moment, it felt hollow to me in the moment, because I'm like, Logan is actually a good movie. Like, Logan, you are sending off this actor, you are doing what in, just in my opinion, what you really can't do in a lot of comic book movies, which is send these people off on a high note,

which is like, we basically know how it is. Like most superheroes by the time, superhero movies by the time they get to that third or fourth movie is like, all right, y'all have ran out of ideas. And it just feels like bringing back Robert Downey Jr. at this moment is them admitting to us, the fans, whatever, being like, we didn't actually have that much left in the tank. Basically, we are at the point where we are serving you shit that we've given you for the last

15 years. And I get that gang, didn't work. I'm not, like, just as cynical on that, but I'm kind of there because they could have given us anybody. Because if they can afford Robert Donnie Jr., they can afford anybody. Because here's the thing, if we're being real, like, all right, let's take, let's even take my, like, very negative opinions on this. Dr. Doom is one of the greatest villains

in all of comic books. You're not telling me there's not one actor with the same level of charisma that would fit that role that they could do for RDJ. And of course there is. Of course that is. But, like, it's very clear

that they want the assurance of a fandom that they are banking on to get back. So y'all don't think that's cowardly, though? Like, you know, like that's a little, like, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Is it possible that they have an idea? Yes.

So, hold on. So obviously, the mechanism of this in terms of, we know Robert Donnie Jr. Is this, was Iron Man, he starred at the MCU, and maybe they need to inject some life into it. But is it possible, though, that with all the comics canon that they have with the crossover of these characters,

Obviously, I'm not saying anything that's not being said on Twitter right now with Tony Stark and the times in the comics that Tony Stark has portrayed Dr. Doom and they've gotten cards. That there's variance and all of this stuff. Is it possible that they have an idea? So this idea leads to Robert Donnie Jr. being the doom that is introduced to us now that might not be doomed. So yet they might have an idea. But the reason that it feels hot. to me is you can't make me go to Deadpool and Wolverine and have Ryan Reynolds and co basically say what we've all been saying

that the multiverse saga hasn't been working, that this is a low point in the MCU, basically parroting everything that I've been saying and multitude of fans have been saying throughout this whole process and then trot out RDJ and from what the Russo said on stage, it was kind of like they were hedging their bets being like it seems like RDJ is going to be a variant of doom and already at that point I'm like all right motherfuckers

then like why then why it just it's like the other variants and all that shit hasn't been working okay so once again they're doing secret wars yes so being that they're doing secret wars it's a big multiversal huge deal so they're doing it the variant stuff is happening once you know you can't stop that

once you know that they're doing secret wars that's it it's happening so I don't know the idea I get the cynicism I'm not carrying water I get the cynicism

the only thing that I'm saying is this assumes everyone out there who's going oh my God this is creative you're assuming that they don't have a plan you're assuming that they don't have an idea now if they

bring him back in the Fantastic Four movie, which I assume that there'll be some kind of, like, doom situation in there, right? If they bungle it, then it's bungled. But we can't say that it's

creatively bereft because we don't know what they're going to do. Like, we, I mean, I'm just being for us. We can say that I agree. Like, we, like, we, like, we, like, we, like, we don't know what they're going to do. And, and the fact that there is so much, this is, this. So much comics canon that deals with the crossing of these two characters,

they might have got some inspiration from that and decided they wanted to do it. Here's a thing. It wasn't always Avengers Doomsday, and maybe they found an idea. The reason that I'm calling it creatively bankrupt is so many of the moves that the MCU has been making at this point aren't coming from a position of string. This is all everything, even Deadpool and Wolverine, Dr. Strange, all of these, it's like Reddit-pilled shit. Where it was like when I used to go to a Marvel movie, I'm like, not only show me something I haven't seen, but surprise me.

And now we're just getting shit where I'm just like, this is the type of stuff where fans would be like, wouldn't it be cool if blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, there's no more surprise to me anymore. It's more so like the Robert Downey Jr. as Dr. Doom shit has been rumors and like has been part of the mill for so long. And I was always like, man, Fige ain't going to let that happen, man. They're way more creative than that. And the minute that it happened, that was the point where, you know what it feels like? It felt like when Jay came back for, um, kingdom come when show me, show me what you got came

out. And I'm just like, okay. I was like, everybody's like, show me what you got. I'm like, let's stay there. Kingdom come, not good. Right. Not good. Some people try to recone now. It was wacky. Like, but kingdom come, not good. However, since then, Jay-Z's career as a rapper

had new life. Like, so when I'm, that's something else I'll tell people. You know, they gave you guys new stuff, and let's be honest, you didn't like it. You didn't like the new stuff.

That's the thing. He didn't like the new stuff. You didn't like it. Whoa. You can play. You can play those. They gave you. No, no, no.

They gave you. They gave you. They gave you. you Eternals, you complained. They gave you Shankshi. You didn't like you. You complained. They gave you shows.

Those movies aren't bad. They're not great. They're not great. They're not great, but they're not. I've been on record by I say that, like, I watch Eternals when it comes on. Look, they, they, you got, look, they made stuff. We had more patience for the MCU before. We had less patience after endgame.

That's partly due to their, uh, their success. I understand that. Their success changed the bar from how we judge them. It did. So I'm not saying that the Turtles was good enough. I'm not saying that Shonghi was good enough. I'm not saying that I liked Wakanda forever a lot.

People kind of didn't. I'm not saying that these movies. They gave you the new stuff and we didn't like it. What I'm saying is they gave you stuff. You didn't like it. But also, also, and I want to hear from Steve, I am not going to give a company credit for the fact that they let greed,

and the grind take preceding. All right. All right. All right. This is why I'm not saying nothing. There's nothing to say. That's not. There's nothing to say.

No, no, no. This doesn't mean anything. Whoa. None of that means anything. If you have your own, if you have your own people coming back, if you have Bob Iger up there, be like, yeah, you know what?

We release too much bid. We got to shut off the faucet. Like, dog, like, I'm not going to get you. It's not. It's funny you bring up Bob Iger, right? The guy who left, Disney was like, hey, man, it's, it's kind of, well, that dude can't leave. And they were like, oh, we got to bring that guy away.

We got to bring that guy away. We got to revive. We got to write the sit. That stuff that happens. I think that's a bit too far, Charles. I think it's the fact that, like, to act like a corporation isn't or is driven by green and the fact that they've had, they've been operating from a, I know, I know that they are, but we have to be, like, we have to be real. At a certain point, be real about the fact that they want to make money off movies? No, no, no, no.

Be real about the fact that Like if we're going to be like Guys guys guys I don't know man Who in the world Was going to watch Half of the shit that they were Like these are characters

That never sold in the comic It doesn't Iron Man didn't sell in the fucking 90s There doesn't matter Between Iron Man and Agatha Harkness I don't disagree I don't disagree There's been a lot of dip on the chip

But to continue this Like To continue the sports minute Before we bought up earlier Charles, I don't know what you want from a dude in his 16th year to be like, oh man, I got to develop. He's like, it's not Braun, right?

I imagine this late in the game, try new stuff, it didn't work. Let's go back to the stuff we've been doing, man. And it's not like they don't know the difference between making a good movie with talented people in them that we're used to versus making something that we, that the collective deems not that good, with very talented people

and still not knowing the difference. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, it's the fact that, like, the Marvel can tell the difference between why maybe Eternals wasn't as successful as, say, Falcon and Winter Soldier. I'm pretty sure they're aware of the difference there.

I just feel like after this long, expecting them to still be the same people that they were in 2012 and 2013 and 2014, that's kind of unfair. And that's not to say that those things can't be good, but I'm saying that, like, this is a solidification of the fact that they're going to be playing the hits now.

Yeah. Because that's what they think will work better than taking creative risks for things that they're not exactly sure about. Even still, though, I kind of disagree with that. And I'll tell you why. So number one, Robert Johnny Jr. is back. They've introduced Doom. Obviously, they're introducing Doom in a way that no property that has introduced,

Doom has ever introduced him in film before. Ever. Whenever you've seen Dr. Doom before, he's never been introduced in the way that he's going to be introduced now. It's a completely new take on that character. That's a fact. Number two, Thunderbolts are a team of really literal nobodies. Of literal nobodies besides Buck and maybe Elena Belova,

who we just got to know. there's a chance when you talk about showing people new stuff, but that doesn't work. I think one of the biggest risks that Marvel has ever taken is to hand the shield to Anthony Mackey.

And Charles, I literally haven't done anything. Okay, yeah. No, you did. Yeah, you did some. You did do some. We should have told him he was in the building. We should have.

But it's to hand the shield to Anthony Mackey. That's one of their most beloved characters. and it's a character that's ripe for people to call DEI bullshit. Once again, like making Falcon Captain America has a comics canon foundation. And you come back with the Fantastic Four. Maybe they couldn't think of a way to bring a Fantastic Four into 616. But introducing them in a 60s, New York, a steampunk technology type of situation, New York.

And having it come out like that, these are, at least from what we've gotten, fresh takes on the origins and fresh takes. It's new stuff from Marvel. Now, these are characters a lot of the times that we've seen, if we're talking about some of the people that are in the thunderbolts, obviously those characters, a lot of them have been around for a little while. And then when you talk about Captain America, obviously you have all the way

going back to Winter Soldier a history, with Falcon. But I don't know. I do think that there's sort of a sticker shock reaction to the Robert Downey Jr. thing. There's a sticker shock to it. Oh, my God, Robert Downey.

Because it seems desperate. Oh, my God. The Rousseau's are back. There's a sticker shock to it. But I don't think that, I personally don't think that we're looking at it from the standpoint

of what they could be doing. So I'll put it to it. we get to Fantastic Four, which I'm very positive on. Good vibes there. You don't think that it is a little troubling that between the Rousseau's and Robert Downey Jr. In that, what, it's been like five or six years in that window, they have not been able to, how do I put this, support and put directors and new actors in a position to succeed enough, where they could take Marvel into the next place,

that they're like, you know what, y'all liked Infinity War and Endgame? We're just running that shit back. To me, that's like, I get it from a financial standpoint. I get why the business is doing it. I get it. But just as a consumer, that's when I'm just like, all right, well, I'm cool off that

because you guys, after Endgame, I actually thought how they sent Tony Stark off narratively. I was like, damn, they did it. And we were bringing this up when we were on the Uber. Now we're in that comic book shit where none of these heroes can ever die, where everything is super complicated, where everything gets so far away from, it's like,

it's just, but that's naive thinking. I also think that's naive thinking to think that any of those things can't be enjoyable. No, no, but to do that shit after five years is some desperate that shit. Where it's like, I always knew,

I always knew they're going to press the button. You say they're doing this and not, clearly not operating from a place of strength. And obviously, they aren't. But again, like, the safe bed of Robert Danny Jr. Rousseau's know how to make a fucking Avengers movie. It's like, it makes sense.

It's a little. No, no, no. Charles is not. Charles, just made the point. Charles, like, they didn't support all these people. They didn't all this. So, um, you're, and you said they're not operating for a place of strength. You want them to double down on Eternals too? You want to charm, too? Whoa. Guys, guys, guys.

If I traveled back when we were sitting in the theater watching end game, you tear it up. He's like, damn, we lost Tony. If I travel back in time, if I'm Marty McFly I tell you, hey, guys, five years, the brain all of them back. Let's go! I'll be like, hey, man, I would I feel a little like,

hell does. Know what the funny thing is? The funny thing is funny that you bring on Martin McFly because Roberts and Meck is directed back to the future, one, two, and three. Right? And how do we feel about three? Three is an underrated movie.

Yeah, I like three. What I'm saying is they kept the same creative team. Like, when we talk about these heroes can never die. I'm waiting for Ethan Hunt's death. Like, Ving Rhames can't even run. You know what I'm saying? But what I'm saying is that like...

Chill-Luther, bro. You know what I'm saying is that like I do think that there is a standard, especially when we're talking about like the sanctity of filmmaking and corporate greed and all of that stuff like that. Chuck, give me a fucking break, bro.

No, whoa, no, no, no, no. Let's be real. Let's be real. There is a point where it's like, guys, y'all panicking after five years is nuts. Like, I, like, it's nuts. Yeah, it's not, but once again, like, I am not, I'm not going to sit here and say that they didn't make decisions. Bringing the Rousseau's back to direct the Avengers movies, I don't have any problem. with that. They are the guys who do Avengers movies for whatever. Might they have gone with

somebody else to direct these movies if things were going better? Maybe. At the same time, Josh Whedon did two Avengers movies. They like the Russo's brother's style. The Robert Downey Jr. thing, it just depends on what they do. Like, it just, it really does. It really just it depends on what they do. Like if everyone is judging it like, oh my God, oh my God, there's nothing, there's literally nothing that they can do to satisfy everybody, right? There's nothing.

There's nothing they can do to satisfy. People can't be satisfied. But y'all are acting like I'm insane for being like, hey, I am not naive. I was just like, yo, money talks. And he, like, RDJ, I was like, he'll probably pop back up in Secret Wars. I always was like,

he'll probably pop up. Them literally baking an entire movie around him, is a little. Let's also understand the circumstances. And there's probably somebody listening to this podcast right now that's begging for me to say this. Okay.

So we had a new generation of Marvel people. We had it, right? We had a new generation of Marvel people. But again, we lost Chadwick. They were to build the whole thing around him Right, we lost Chadwick Cool

Not cool Very uncool Um They they had They had the guy They weren't gonna do Doom They had the guy they wanted They had the guy they wanted

Two things happened Number one the shit didn't go right Number two They would have still stay with it But this nickas started fucking up So they had the guy that they wanted By the way I'm talking about Jonathan Majors They had the guy

This is a pivot that is also denoted by some real-life things that have occurred. And a lot of times when we talk about Marvel, and I'll always get accused of shooting Marvel Bell and all of this, this tight interwoven story that was disrupted by COVID, that was disrupted by the death of the guy who was going to be the leader of the new generation of their movies,

the single most profitable solo movie that they had, I think it was. Maybe it was one of them. I'm probably not. worldwide phenomenon, he passes away. Then you have COVID. Then you have Disney Plus and some creative miscues, some business miscues.

And then you find Jonathan Majors who everyone is excited about from He Who Remains. Everybody is excited about, okay, we have somebody now that we're going to sign up for nine movies. For nine movies. We're going to sign them up for nine movies. And he's going to be your big bad.

And then you can't do that. So in this particular situation right now, you can't do Kang anymore. Is the multiverse saga, like, working to the degree it should be? No, it's not. It's being sloppily done. I'll agree with that. However, you still could have come back and done King Dynasty. You didn't need Duke.

Not quite yet. I will say, if I'm being positive, I would much rather see a Dr. Doo movie than a Kang movie. I just, if... But we were excited about the King. movie at the time. We were excited about we were. But as a villain

I would much rather have Doom and just as just like a viewer I would have them because this is what I'll say maybe we can pivot

it to Fantastic Four because I think the thing that I actually will give Marvel credit for is before RDJ walked out there the biggest

applause of the fucking day was for Pedro Pascal. Oh my God they loved him out there. That was the moment if we're pivoting

they do man. I don't I don't say they did it, but it's really funny. So they're supposed to start shooting on Tuesday, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like, they're in London, right? They started, oh, they're in London right now. They're not coming out.

They're not coming. We just got Matt Shaqman, the director. I'm like, this is a lie. This is a lie. They're here. All this and that. They do the thing. And then, like, everybody's here.

And it's great. It's awesome. Then I'm like, you guys got to get back on a plane. You got to get back to London. Honestly, I believe that. No, I for sure. This is, like, fantastic for it was probably the most positive I was of the entire night.

And I liked a lot of the footage we saw. But when Pedro walked out, I was just like, oh, not only is Pedro a star, but I do think that he has that level of thing where it's like, you can build a universe around him. He's definitely walking the steps that Robert Donno Jr. Because he loves being at these conventions. He loves being, like, adored by all of these fans. And he's clearly the guy. He doesn't look down on it.

And part of me was, I was like, damn, and I might be wrong, I would have loved Pedro to play opposite a Doom that we're learning about. Where it's like I'm excited to see like Pascal and RDJ getting into it.

Sure. But there was a level of me being like, can you imagine if this was like a new actor taking the Doom role and we get like we just get that energy? But in a weird way, I actually kind of like this dichotomy because it's old school and new school. Like there's like there's a there's a

there's a, there's a, could feel like a weird passing of the torch of charisma here. All right. So, and before we continue, because I don't know, you guys can probably see, like,

very grainy footage of it. Oh, no, no, those, those, they'll swap that shit off. They'll swap that shit off Reddit quick.

So basically what happened, Matt Shackman comes out, and they have not started any official shooting, but they showed us a lot of, it was basically like, they trailerified some test footage. Yeah. Some test footage of where,

we saw all of the characters read to thing, Human Torch. We didn't see their powers, but we saw all the actors playing the roles. It starts with Pedro Pascal's Mr. Fantastic, teaching a class. And basically an entire aesthetic is very early Kirby, fantastic for the New York.

60s. Quote of the panel, the 60s were a time of optimism. Oh, wait, Van, give it back to Van. Dog, I have never laughed as much as women. Sex is crazy. The 60s.

The 60s are a time of great optimism. I'm like, nigga, for who? I'm like, oh, you, like, size and Negro. Well, this is, like, there's no civil rights in this one. I guess not. Maybe they figured that shit out. Wait, is it an alternate reality they got us off? Maybe they solved it.

He didn't say the 60s of our world. He said the 60s were a time of great optimism. We'd get catching fucking hell. Right? I don't know when he said that. I'm like, yo, man, I don't do it. Whoa. But the rest of the footage where we see all of them in their, like,

in their space suits about to go off to space. We don't see the thing, but we see, like, basically him in shadow. The test footage, I will, and oh, then we see Galactus and Galactus looks. Glatis speaking scene. Look crazy. It was Clactus. Classic collectus. Clackus.

Clackus. Classic. Classic. Let me tell you how something right now. You know what I thought was the most interesting thing about the test footage? What was it? The way Pedro played reading it.

Yeah. That was my take. I was, oh, man. Look, there was a lot of conversation when he got, when he got cast was like, can Pedro do it? Can Pedro do it? And I'm not going to say I was like all the way that can't,

but I, you know, he had questions. He's fucking got this. Bro, it was cooking. I love Lucy kind of like. Yeah, he's like, oh, like, Ricky, like, he was just like very, like, I don't know. He's fucking got it.

It's very stylized, right? And ultimately you do have to, like, we're going to have to wait to see Kenny play like the darker version of Reed where like all the chips are down. He has to make them call. I don't, I'm not saying, I believe in Pedro Bascow.

I just mean like in the story. It's a turn for sure. There's going to be a turn because it's very cheery, it's very light. What we saw. It wasn't very like serious. But it opens with him like teaching. And like it's the look,

the feel. He's got it. Even Ebben Moss-Backarach, we didn't see him as thing, but even his Ben Grimm is very, like, angry and just kind of like New York, like, fuck all this shit. Like, I will say this. Now that we have Doomsday, I was like, we're getting the counselor reads and Avengers Doomsday.

Like, it's happening right now. I mean, I don't see why it wouldn't. They're swinging for the fences, clearly. Bring back I, Ion, Grafamafod from Fantastic Four. Hell, no. They brought back, hey, spoiler for Deadpool. They brought back, John. They brought back Chris.

for Johnny Storm might as well. No, I think I'm, like, I've always been a Fantastic Four fan. You know, we got, I liked the 2005 joint, the one in 2007 stunk. We're not going to get into a fan four stick.

But I think we might finally get a good Fantastic Four movie. I was, it's very, very promising. It wasn't even finished footage. It's just test footage. Like, this is,

this is basically, I'm like, this is what Matt Schachan was shooting to be like, this is a proof of concept. I was the highest on that. And it's interesting because everything after Thunderbolts, they kind of just had to sell us on vibes.

Yeah. Fantastic Four, vibes were immaculate. And then the rest is just like, okay, announce, announce, announce.

I think for what we have for Fantastic Four, that cast is a fucking charm offensive. That is like kind of going to be undeniable. And then I think everything prior with Thunderbolts and Cap, we've got some pretty good proof in the pudding for, something that can be good. We got a lot from Pedro, Ebon,

Vanessa Kirby a little bit. We didn't get nothing from Jumps of Quinn. There wasn't a lot of... This is test footage. Yeah. So this is stuff that either they shot

just for Comic-Con. So I don't know how much, how deep in their bag they went. I'll say that what was good about it, though, was it gives a clear vision for the tone of the movie.

Which is what everyone had questions about. Similar to Wanda vision. I could see why they put Shackman in this role. Because at first I was like, oh, like, I didn't totally understand. But then when they were showing us, even the cinematography of how they're shooting it, is very much of that, like, old school, grainy. Literally, like, episode two and three.

And just remember, like, what has to happen to this iteration of the Fantastic Four? What we're normally used to seeing from the Fantastic Four is that, you know, ambitious, group of people doing their experiment, their mission, and then they come to terms with being heroes. That's going to happen here, too, because it looks like there were shots

in the footage where, you know, they had their, their astronaut uniforms on, and so it looks like we're going to see them get their powers in this. I took the opposite. I was more so, like, are they, was this test footage?

Because everything that I've read is they're like, we're not really doing the origin again. I was more so like, is this them showing us just kind of like, this is the before, now we're getting to the present. Because I was like, I was getting this like. It seemed that they hinted at it, but it could be. Because even Reed at that point, the way Reed is talking and shit, it's like he's already big shit at this point.

It's almost like they're celebrities at this point. Well, he's Reed Richards, but he might not be Mr. Fantastic. Yes. And they gave us the subtitle. First steps. First steps. First steps. First steps.

So what has to happen to this iteration of the Fantastic Four and soon, probably in this movie, right? Because there's, I don't know what's coming after this, is they have to be ripped out of their timeline. Yeah. And thrown into the wilderness. Because what Kevin Fikey said before he left, he made sure to say this. He said, Ayo, Fantastic Four, they're in the Avengers movies. And I was like, all right, man. So they have to be ripped out of their timeline and thrown into another world.

that is, in my opinion, the catalyst that takes Reed from being the read that we see in this. Because you guys, I'm sure you'll see this footage. He's genteel. He's very fatherly to be in the read that has to solve the problem. Exactly. Right.

And so that right there, starting them in that way, gives them an opportunity to have some sort of an arc and gives them some family dynamics. that they can have by the time we get to the Avengers movie. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business.

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Nass Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat, and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard-bought place. They're all jammed inside every can of Nass energy, high-performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage, and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of Nass energy and get after it. Getting to, I would say, the most impressive footage that I saw

was from Captain America All right, let's not do this. I'm sorry. Let's not do this. By the way, everybody, by the way, I'm just letting y'all know right now. Everybody is going to say that, you know, Van knows Anthony Mackey.

Technically, everybody in this room except Steve knows Anthony Mackey. Yeah. They do. Guys, what are you? Guys, can we go, can we go Wampard? Eventually Captain American Brain New World

Every time he come up. He'll come to a pot. You did it to yourself. He'll come to your son. Because here's the thing? If we're going to be real? So you mean to tell me you saw that footage? No, no.

Before I finish, before I finish. Okay. Hey, man, I was about to be like, Anthony Mackey was up on what's his face singing Despacito. I was like, you're really close to my man singing in his ear. They're joking around up there. Y'all, bro. They were having a good time.

Y'all repressed. I thought that. what that movie had to do was make us believe, honestly, unironically, make us believe that Falcon could be super important and the center of that type of story. And it did. So can I ask you this, though, because I do think that the trailer, the trailer was good, the thing that worries me about this movie,

and the reason I think, if I'm just guessing, there are a lot of reshoots is that they revealed that John Carlo Esposito is the leader of the Snake Society. Service Society. Service Society, sorry.

Sidewinder. So we have the Serpent Society, we have the leader, we have Red Hulk, and then we got, I don't think that this was in the teaser, we also got the story beat that has been a rumor mill

that essentially Falcon goes to the fucking Eternal's Island, the celestial island, and he brings back the first Adamantium to the U.S. Adamantium is introduced into the MCU in this. That is so much. That's three different villains. We got Adamantium.

We got the Eternals in this shit. We don't know how much of everything we're getting. No, but more so story-wise, I'm like... That's what I'm saying, though. We don't know. That's a lot. Even in the trailer, I was like, this is a lot. I know, but it's like,

we don't know how much of all that we're getting. Like, Crossbones is in Civil War. Civil War for one scene. Like, I mean, John Carla Esposio is going to be in the movie. The leader is going to be in the movie. I think what they're doing now, because it's still not clear what's happening. So we know that there's adversaries for Captain America in the movie,

but we don't know what they want or why. For the audience, should we say, like, from what we got of the trailer, it seems like the story is, is that Thunderbolt Ross essentially is in love with Falcon again because he brings the adamantium back from the celestial island. He asks him to, he asks him to reconstitute the Avengers. The Avengers. And then Anthony Mackie or Cap is basically like, yo, you were the one who presented the Sokovia Accords. What are we going to do if we disagree? and then from there it seems like it blows up and it's Anthony Mackey against Thunderbolt Ross.

Well, there's something else in there. There's obviously at some point an attempt on the president's life. Which from the trailer that everybody's seen. But we've seen from Isaiah Bradley. Isaiah Bradley shooting, yeah. So in some way, Isaiah Bradley, who is superpowered, must have been in some way brainwashed or mind control or something, and that could be the leader.

So then that... And so then that probably becomes the thrust of the movie. You want to? That becomes the thrust of the movie because we probably don't know who is activating these different people close to the president.

We also don't know how the president becomes Red Hulk. There's a lot of things in there that we don't know, Steve. Isaiah is also like, staunchly anti-government from what we were remembering Falcon Willie Soldier

he was sitting down there in front of mad yeah he was fucking mad about what they did to him like I've always fascinated about like man it would be great if we got a

flashback to old Isaiah Bradley fighting Bucky in like the intro of this movie that's like my fantasy brain being like I would love that because if we got an actual like scene from Isaiah's past

about why he would hate the US now and then sit with that for decades upon decades and then finally get a shot at avenging that, that would be crazy. That would be great. Pandering.

No. We got to steal more Red Hulk in this trailer. We saw Harrison Ford like. We got to see fucking full Red Hulk. I got to be honest with y'all. It was uncanny Valley. See him my mayor, Harris and Ford's face on the Hulk.

I was like, yeah. I will say, yeah, it actually did look at Harris Ford where the Hulk kind of looks like Mark Ruffalo? The Hulk doesn't really like not until end game. Like the Hulk looked like the Hulk and then in end game

he looked kind of like Mark Ruffalo and this I'm like that's Harris. That looks like Harris Ford. That's Harris and Ford is a crowd. I'm not mad about it though. I thought it was interesting how much they showed him to your point of like

how these guys are going to balance these guys in the movie. They showed him in full. Yes. To the audience that we're describing it, it's like They're on the White House lawn

and they're showing the transformation and then the Red Hulk's face pops up and he like, he roars. He yells and I'm like, oh, they just showing the, they're not hiding anything. And it seems like everyone that was there, namely Falcon was incredibly surprised that he had the ability to become Red Hulk.

So, I mean, if you looked at the trailer in the footage that we got, how the Red Hulk situation happened. to Thunderbolt Ross. We know how it happens in the comics. We don't know how it happens in the MCU. What the leader is up to, whether or not the leader had anything to do with turning the president

because he's trying to get to the president. Maybe he wants to turn the president into the Red Hulk. With what the serpent society, what role they play in this, if they're working with the leader, we don't know any of that. Also, what we don't know,

like really quick before we get to Thunderbolts. I've been seeing rumors. I don't know if this is true, but it does seem like we're getting a full Avengers team in this. Who on the board is an Avengers team that could take on the right? I don't know. I don't get the full of Avengers team. I think that might be a...

No, no, no, no, not full. We're getting an Avengers. It seems like you're getting something. Maybe he's just like, hey, I want you to do that. Then the movie goes. And then it's like... I think that maybe that's like the starting off point. We're like, build the team.

Roll credits. How the fuck is Falcon going to take out a whole? Hulk. First of all, he's Captain America. Second of all. Thank you. Respect. Respect. Shout out Danny Ramirez. Come on now. Yeah, I don't know. You know what? No, yeah, you're right, Charles. I don't think Danny Marie Mirriis can bring back the Avengers.

I think Captain America can bring back the Avengers. All I'm saying is they don't have to prove to be that this version of, because here's a thing, Steve Rogers' cap couldn't do shit about the Hulk. All right, Ross. You can chill. What? I'm like? What?

What? What? I'm like? Well, he was like, yo, I mean, is there going to be seeing the movie? It's like, yo, Dr. Strange, I need you to come through. Is Scarlett, which, which you? Nah. Spot a man. You're trying to, I don't think that, like, that might be.

If Thor or Dr. Strange don't pick up the call, I don't know who's beating the fucking. It would be great to see that both of them just ignore. Just swipe right. He's like, ignore. Just the scene. All right. If we're going to be looking at the phone.

This is the thing. Falcon now Cap. He don't got the poll in the MCU yet to be like for. Maybe this movie. Ranger Thor to be picking up his call, bro. Maybe what he does. He gives him the pole. And there's that thing like, yo,

hey man, he got to juice. I might have to pick up the phone. The one thing I think, and we've talked about Eternals a lot in this podcast, but we will continue to do so because in this movie, apparently Adamantium comes from

Tiamut. All right. The fact. The fact. It's hilarious. Yada, yada, yada. Whatever. It's hilarious.

In the MECU, it is hilarious that no matter what happens. Yeah. Anthony Mackey. is responsible for creating Wolverine. That's right. That is okay. That's kind of great.

And I like that. We're waiting for the Uber and we're just talking about it. And we're like, look at that, man. Look, they gave us Wolverine. That's it. That's the ex-men. A black man created Wolverine. We've been asking for how many years.

We got it. Yeah, Adamant is right there. And it's probably going to be the next world conflict because Vibranium, the majority of it belongs to Wakanda. They're not sharing that. And it's the fact that like, okay, all the world's clamoring to get vibranium because that's going to be the next hot shit.

That's going to be the biggest resource that we're going to be fighting over. It's over for vibranium. Oh, Adamantium's taking a spot. They made it. They didn't got rid of the niggas again, bro. They got rid of the niggas again, bro. Timah came in there.

They got rid of the niggas. Vibranium. So let me tell you what they did. They made vibranium better than Adamantium. in the MCU. It was all about adamantium when I was growing up. Vibranium was dope.

Super dope. Very valuable. Made everybody rich. It was like, Wolverine, Adamantium, the hardest thing. And then now it's like, we got this new metal. This is what they do. This is what they do. Honestly, do you think that Kanye in the MCU universe

wasn't talking about blood diamonds? He was talking about Vibranio. There is. Vibranios forever. So I would ask you guys this because you guys are, in more into comics, you guys have been locked in for a longer time

than I have been. Sidewinder. You guys familiar with that character? No, no. No, really. You went, dog, it was so funny

when Sean Conn was because he was like, I've been waiting. I mean, I know what the Serpice Society is. No, I know the Service Society, but I couldn't,

I'm gonna be honest with you. I love comic books. Service Society was always some bitches. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was never like they were the guys. Seth Volker didn't move y'all? Hell no. InS.

N cell numbers? I'm going to be honest. If I'm Jean-Card-Lesbizito, I would have held out for, like, Professor X. I would have held out a little bit. I mean, he didn't want to do it. I would have held out. I'm sure they asked him. I think he didn't want to do it.

Because here's the thing, if we're going to be honest, this idea would have been terrible, but it would have been so funny. Honestly, X-Men movies. Just do it. Do it. Just do the civil rights movie. Denzel as Magneto. Dog Denzel is Jean-Card-Maz-Mazzazzazzazzazzazzazz.

Dog, Denzel as Magneto. would have been terrible, but it would have been amazing. March on Washington. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Come on, bro. Because in the Gladiator 2 trailer, he doesn't do, he doesn't do an accent. He just do Denzel.

Imagine Magneto, just like doing Denzel. My man. My man. I'm leaving here with some. I'm leaving it with something. So, Thunderbolts. A movie that seems to be organized around Elena Belov's character.

Thunderbolts. was the movie that, of all of these films coming out, is the only one that ever made me ask, you know, what are we doing here? This is the Charles Holmes. I was like, I walked in there being like, I don't give a fuck about Thunderbolts, and I walked out being like, oh, like,

might have some juice. I was like, I was looking, she turned, Thunderbolts turned around. I'm like, oh, she worked with a little something. Can I say something about that? Oh, Jesus Christ. That's great. Sex positive.

Sex positive. Sex positive. Can I say something about the Thunderbolt's like? The Thunderbolt seem like for right now, this is the Avengers team we need? It seems, so let me say what I mean. Like, Ben's about to cook. I can feel it. Let me tell you what I mean. They seem like a team that is made up a lot of people that are in disarray.

Yep. It just kind of seems like for where the world is right now, it's, we're a little bit removed away from believing that Captain America can figure everything out. Yeah. Just like seeing them, they seemed a little bit more grounded. They seemed like almost like what the suicide squad was going for. Their power sets being so different. there's a scene that we saw

where they're in the middle of this place where someone has lured them too to try to kill them and watching them fight and the different uses of their powers was fantastic. Can I also say this going one step further what I really liked about the trailer is

one thing I always kind of hated about how the Avengers films kind of narratively progressed. It's that first Avengers film. It was so refreshing. Seeing these heroes who were not fucking with each other. Like, Captain, like, Iron Man.

They were at, like, a lot of these characters were just, like, they weren't who we would know them yet as icons, at least of the screen yet. And, like, I'm not saying the Thunderbolts are going to get here, but it was so refreshing seeing, like, all these characters, like, bro, all of us ain't shit. I don't fuck with you. I was, like, I was laughing during the trailer.

All of them are funny. They seem like they have chemistry. And it's Florence Pugh's time. Like, yeah. I don't know where Black Widow is right now, but she, having an actress with that type of charisma, not very much Bucky in it.

We see him towards the end and what we saw. Having an actress with that type of charisma, what? No, no, no. I'm thinking, you mentioned Bucky. The funniest thing, maybe the funniest thing I saw that panel all night, was a dishwasher opens,

and he's got the arm in there. dishwashers. Gotta get clean. But like seeing that, the movie just seems like it has a unique take on that type of team and what they would be doing in the world, which was the biggest disappointment about the first Suicide Squad movie

is they didn't really have a reason for Task Force X to really exist. Yeah. Like it didn't seem like they fit in in any type of a world. The Thunder, the Thunder, It seems like with her and, you know, these guys kind of being down on their luck, needing something to sort of believe in, to coalesce around. I just bought it from what I saw.

And I just bought the way she was playing. She was playing a different version of that character even before. She looked like she was going through something. You could tell it worked. Not to circle back, but what before we even got to the RDJ reveal, what I think Thunderbolts did for me with Florence Pugh, and then what Fantastic Four did with me with Pedro was, I was like, okay, these are two actors at the top of their game

that are so charismatic. And I think the thing that I've been missing in the MCU is their ability to be like, we're going to take a charismatic actor, and they're going to put their all into this character. Yeah. And that's what I like, because I was like, oh, Florence Pugh, Pedro, you all can lead this.

Like you guys can be the next. Also shout out to David Harbor. He was like really... David Harvard was charming. First of all, he loved being in Hall H. Yes. He did a whole fucking skit of like pretending like dressing up as

as his character and like marching up down the hallway and he's like, oh my God, nobody dressed up. Like I sent an email. It was like it was a great time. It was a great bit. He was great in the trailer. I think that again, a movie that knows dynamics

between characters that bounce off of each other, that's incredibly refreshing. And it's hard to do effectively. And I loved the idea of seeing why Russell's U.S. agent back, like the best part of Falcon Winter Soldier, by the way. Not even close. What was the best part of Falcon Moon and Shelter?

That's a good question, actually. Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Before we, we got to talk about this. The whole time, I was like, they kept talking about Bob, Bob. I'm like, who's Bob? It wasn't until I was talking to Van outside. I was like, oh, that's the

Sentry because he doesn't have they showed us the Century, but he does not have his comics his comics uniform. Basically, he's just like a random like mentally ill. He's in a case or something? Yeah, he was not in costume at all. Yeah. But I did like, because he did have

what the Century has, that almost creepy like this is a ticking time bomb type thing. You're like, why is he on the team? That's what I even liked. even all the characters like Ghost has a new costume. All the characters, like, they look cool in a way where I'm just like, a lot of these characters. How do you think they'll redeem Taskmaster? They won't.

Here's a thing. I think they will. Really? Really? If it's, that's an amazingly optimistic take from you. If they make it the dude that we know and love, like, let's forget all the three. Oh, they're not. They're not doing that.

They're able. Wait, well, guys, can I just talk shit? Let's talk shit. Let's really quick, pause. After we got off the RDJ shit, you guys have to, you guys have to admit. I'm pretty positive about everything else I saw. Do you want a cracker? You want a cookie or something?

I do. Because the van is on this. Charles hates superhero shit. Like, I'm very positive. I think the, you don't like him. What? It's okay. Why is it?

Why do we have to bullshit? You don't like superheroes? I do like superheroes. I think the Dunnabot's a interesting thing. And they, I mean, they highlighted it a little bit. The relationship between Florence Pookeh character and David Herbert's character, They're, they're a guardian and black widow. Yeah, like the father and daughter thing.

The footage opens with them. It's the crux in the movie. It's the corrects of the movie. And I, to your point, seems like it. David Harbor and Florence Pugh are two people with extreme charisma that they might be able to emotionally hold up this movie. They can do that. We're cooking.

Who's our big, who's our big bad? It's a good question. I think it's going to be Bob. I think it's going to be the century. The Century. Valentina was there, but. Well, actually, it could be the Century. Because the century, if the century becomes the void.

Oh. Yeah. And the only problem with that is, they're not going to do it. Mother fucking ass is kicked. That's the best of the movie, though. And he's taking out the Red Hulk, the Thunderbolt's definitely not taking out the movie, bro. And that's the same thing, honestly, that pissed me off about the suicide squad. Are you going to church?

Yeah. I was like, what they fucking going to do, bro? You got the big dude turned Jay Hernandez. he turned to a big fire guy. He was awesome. He was El Diablo? El Diablo. What's his name? I saw the first suicide squad.

I was like, hey. You like that shit? You like the first suicide squad? It's not totally. No, no, no, no. It's a TNT movie. Like, it's like, if it's on, I'm going to watch a little bit of suicide squad. Yeah, suicide squad. All right, we got to wrap up because I'm about to go to Wendy's.

Before we get out of here, Steve, you had a lockdown. Give us a very, very brief rundown of what you thought. a Deadpool and Wolverine and then give us your midnight meter. Okay. Honestly, it comes after, it's been a whirlwind of a week because like the cynicism that I have with Marvel, it's like coming back and forth. Like Hall H. Robert Johnny Jr., all these things coming back. And then I see Deadpool and Wolverine the other day.

I just, I wish I enjoyed it more. I really do. Let's go. I really wish that I could enjoy it more. This is why you need to be on the pod. See? Let's go. Yeah, I need to try to not get the novel coronavirus.

I need to, no, I, I wish that I could enjoy it with the people because, again, seeing it in a pack theater, seeing all those people enjoy it and react to all of those great things, completely bounced off of me. I've been immune to Ryan Reynolds for a while now, and I wish that I could succumb a little bit. He's approaching 2020, Dwayne the Rock Johnson levels of overexposure, and I think this pretty much overcapped it. When they brought out, I will say,

before you continue, when they brought out the Deadpool choir and they started singing, I'm like, all right, man, all right. I think there was,

that was fun. That was fun. I said, what did Sister Act 2 was killing? They were great. They were singing to that choir. They were singing the gospel music, but they was dancing.

Yeah. No, that was, that was fun. It's, it's, I've never been more aware about the spot

that Marvel's in with Deadpool and Wolverine. It doesn't feel like they're operating from a place of strength. It doesn't feel like the movie is confident enough to go five seconds without either something wildly tongue-in-cheek about where the MCU is or a big cameo that may or may not land with people that are diehard fans of this stuff trying to look for the next thing that they can enjoy. Yes, there are things that can be enjoyed. Hugh Jackman, the role he's born to play, it's wonderful. I think the fact that I actually kind of liked

the opening sequence of bye, bye, and playing with the skeleton. I think it was great. Like, fuck it. Go for it. Desecrate the skeleton. Who cares? We're bringing it all back.

It doesn't matter anymore. I think that, but on the same token, if it doesn't matter anymore, of course bring back fucking Johnny Storm and Chris Evans. Of course bring in Shannon Tatum as Gambit, who I think was fucking hilarious,

doing all that bullshit. Of course you did, Steve. Of course it was. Like, that shit was funny as, fuck, come on. Like, it was. I just, I, it never fully wins me over. And

if you were to ask me about a midnight meter, it's six. So, Steve, you're a six, I'm a six. Van was an eight. He copped out. He's like, it's an eight out of eight. I'm like, cop out. Jomey, you were an eight? Yeah. Damn. I look back and I'm like, No way home, I judged you too harshly.

Yeah. I was on going to record saying that y'all niggas made me sick. Why? What do we do? Well, not you. Thank you. Yeah. What the fuck did I do now? I'd just be honest with you. You know what the one thing that the internet did more than anything? Especially

in this space. It made everybody into a little Siskel and Ebert. Oh, Whitefield. All right. Corporate Shill-Laython. I never got a dime from Disney. As a matter of fact, they need to start breaking it off. I wish you were mad. I mean, I'll be all with you.

Amazon be breaking it off. I guess who kind of is Disney, but not really. But like, I don't, I ain't never really made, I ain't got no actor. It's straight up. You're like, I ain't never got no breath. I didn't got one dime. Bro, every time Amazon got a new show, I get a nice little basket. They sent me some AirPaw Maxes.

I'll be honest with you. The AirPaw Maxes made me think twice about this and coming to a. America Part 2. I had to do it. Van Lengthen can't be bought. No, no, I had to do it. I had to do it. So coming to America,

I probably told you about this, but coming to America Part 2 came out and when I looked, that's how I knew that bitch was about to be whacked. Because they don't send you shit that nice, but I'm going to be rude with you. Whoa, if you've been in media long enough, I will tell you, you know movies

whack based on how good this shit they said. They used to say shit to the office. I'm like, oh, they're trying to buy us. I fucking open that bitch up. I was like, I looked at the clique. I was like, yo, this real? And she was like, oh my God.

I was like, don't touch. And then I was like, oh, this shit about to be a fucking dumpster fuck. This shit is terrible. Right? And I kept them, you know, I've been using these. And you want to know how I knew depth,

they were worried about Deppuble and Wolverine because when we went to that screening, they was like, if you got to go, ticket, you can get the Wolverine bucket. The rest of y'all don't get shit. But, but, so, you know, Disney don't be breaking it off with me.

I don't know nobody at Disney. I do no business at Disney. Never did. But, you know, I don't know, man. Like, I don't think, first of all, I don't think that the Deadpool and Wolverine movie has anything to do with the MCU. That's essentially a Fox movie

that's in the, that's, in the, that's in the MCD. All right, man. Ryan had complete autonomy and everything that he wanted to do. And you could tell. Right. So what I'm saying is,

them not operating from a place of strength, to me, it's an odd criticism because the lead is making his movie with his director and his thing. He's doing everything that he wants to do while he took, it's more than anything.

It's a vanity project for all of the and all the movies, I don't want to be hyper-propos, so I'll cut it off. We're taking the movie too seriously. All right. We're like, we're like,

we're like we're taking the movie too seriously. Wait, wait, wait, I'll just say this. I'll say. And that's not, that's not to, to shoot a bill for it having a thin script. It's got a thin script. What they wanted to do was make you laugh

and show you some shit that they felt like you wanted to see. Why can't, why can't a superhero movie? Like, we have to get to, I see, maybe you do this every time. Why can it through a year movie be bad? It made a shitload of money. There are bad superhero movies.

It broke a lot of records. It's okay if it wasn't a good movie. It's okay. It's not a bad movie. It's totally okay. No, but you can't be like, hey, it got a thin script. It's basically a clip show.

I don't know. But it was fun as that. Are you familiar with trauma? Are you familiar with trauma? Trauma. Trauma pictures. Are you familiar with them? Yeah, James Gunn.

No. Well, James Gunn was with trauma. Like the, the, uh, the, uh, the fucking, and the Toxic Avenger and all those movies familiar with those movies The reason why those movies gained like a cult following

or even like some of the Roger Corman stuff or all that. You know why those movies getting that following? Because, so there was the Toxic Avenger and then there was like a kabuki cop

and all of that stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. When you caught one of those movies, you would look at the movie and you would be like, yo, this shit is, it's a B movie,

this shit is whack, but this is fun. Like the reason why trauma caught on after all of that, they were obviously making cheap movies. But there is craft in being able to put something on the screen and then have somebody have a good time watching it. This is a 250. I don't know how much.

It probably costs 250. I get it. Like, this is not a B movie. No, no. Like, I watch B movies and I'm like, oh shit. I'm not saying it's a B movie. But what I'm saying is I believe that Indeb Pool and Wolverine, that there were some things

that they couldn't do because of their strike and other stuff. I believe they made the exact movie for the most part. Besides those things, I think they made the exact movie they wanted to make. And the movie that they make made, I don't like, and a lot of people didn't like. I get it. I don't think a lot of people didn't like it. I think that the movie's divisive in terms of what people want from a movie.

Like, I talked to somebody, and we didn't talk about this. get off that pool over and he's like, bro, I loved it, but it was whack. And to me, while I look at it, I get it, I understand. And maybe we're not to the point right now where we're getting enough quality for us to be able to like have fun with superheroes at the movies. Maybe we're to that point. What frustrates me is your point. It's like I catch myself taking it too seriously. And when I don't have fun with it and I don't lighten that load mentally to enjoy it more.

That's when I get tripped up where I'm like, should I be enjoying this more because I shouldn't be taking it that seriously? Or am I actually not enjoying this because it's just not hitting for me? And it's been this internal conflict ever since I've been,

ever since I saw it where I'm like, am I fucked up or is the movie not doing it for me? There are entire parts of that movie that are so God awful, ugly, where I'm just like, this is, come on. The final Deadpool fight did not look good. It did not look good. Third act is tough. The third act is tough.

But I think if I can, but like that's more less my Deadpool thoughts, but if I can, if I can ask the the pod, it's our first Comic-Con vibes. What do we think? We walk the floor. Did we see everything? I never, y'all

knock him up my guest. There are too many people out here, bro. It was claustrophobic. I'm like, hell no. It was, I know. I, no. I, no. I, no. I, I had never been a Comic Comic before. I had a good time. It was my fault. I wore a long-sleep shirt on a Saturday conday, and I was just hot as hell.

You got to pack right. You got to prepare. But as we wrap up, T-shirts. I will say, shout out to everybody we met at Comic-Con. Shout out to all the listeners who, like, took care of us, took photos. Like, we love you guys so much.

It was so, like, it's so heartwarming. So, like, if y'all saw us, out there. I wasn't out there that much, but thank you for taking care of my boys. We love you. I'm coming back next year. I don't know about you. I'll be back. I'll say, Comic Con is like really, even away from the convention center, like,

what happens to that part of San Diego during Comic Con? Oh, boy. It's, look, I'm saying, like, you're walking around for me in regular restaurants, like, the borderlands have taken, it's like activations everywhere, situations everywhere.

It really is a site to be hold. Hall H was just fantastic, fantastic, fantastic stuff. I bought some comics. So a lot of people, you know. There's a lot of people in there. We ate some steak with some sparklers. Oh, yeah.

The steakhouse was fire. We went to S.T.K. I was like, why is there a club? It was bringing out shots. That's fucking New York strips, bro. That the bottle girls was coming through, man. The bottle, they gave us shots. I was just like, we're the hos now.

They gave a shot. Strawberry lemonade shots. It was good. Strawberry lemon drop shots for the Midnight Boys. It's crazy. All right y'all, we're out of here. Thank you for listening. That's a wrap.

Every Sunday, Talk to Thrones will be up right after the latest episode of Hot D ends. Monday, the Midnight Boys give their reactions to Hot D. This Tuesday, button match returns to talk about Star Wars Outlaws. You love that. And also this Tuesday, House of R will deep dive into House of Duh. A producer is Steve the Art Tech Almond. Midnight Collective is not on this one.

Jomea Dineron, the Explanator of Dinerons on socials, hashtag additional production from Arjuna. Yo, it's wake up. We're wrapping this bitch out. Damn. Chuck, take us out. Midnight boys run San Diego.

And I'm cutting the MCU no slack. Because R.D.J. is Dr. Do. That she is kind of whack. Yo, Van, like, Van, let's just go, bro. Let's go. Stop with this shit, nigga. God, damn, let's just record me. You always be so judgmental.

It's just fucked up the floor of the podcast. No, here's the thing. This is hustling flow. We're just getting it out the mud. You know what I'm saying? Well, then you pass your shit with him. How old? I don't know.

I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. But, like, it's not a lot of cross-talk. See? See? And this is the main thing. And this is the main thing. This is the main thing.

Y'all don't like it just because I keep it real. Y'all was acting like that. But when I called on you to give them your mic, you didn't want to do it. See? You know who's going to give the mic up now? Me. I'll give them my mic. I'll give them my mic.

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