The Ringer-Verse - 'Secret Invasion' Episode 1 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

The invasion is upon us, and the Midnight Boys are here to find out who the spies are! Van, Charles, Jomi, and Steve are here to break down their instant reactions to the newest MCU TV show, 'Secret Invasion' (04:18). They talk about Nick Fury and how the show attempts to center itself around Marvel's own spymaster (20:23). Later, they get into predictions about what may happen later in the season and even break down a basketball player's controversial opinions on 'Star Wars' (62:49). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Steve Ahlman, and Jomi Adeniran Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Matt Bellany, founding partner of Puck News, and I'm covering the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. With my new show, The Town, I'm going to take you inside Hollywood with exclusive insight on what people in show business are actually talking about. Multiple times a week, I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know, journalists, insiders, all of whom can break down the hottest topics in entertainment to tell you what's really going on. Listen now. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, Every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks,

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Before we get into the podcast, I got to say thank you to Steve and Jomey for coming out to the big Juneteenth Shindig. Thank you to Van for inviting us. Thanks for the invite, man. We had a good time. Did we not fellows? Quite a blast.

Oh, yeah. That was a hell of a party. Did Steve, did Steve give any money reparations to all of the African-Americans? I was thinking about a bit to give Van an Applebee's gift card with an apology note in it, given our given our Applebee's trist let me tell you something

let me tell you something man Jesus Christ that's Steve that's we start this is a transatlantic Jesus Christ that's right there

it broke a record that's fucking broke a record we didn't even get what what is it are we even we're not three minutes into the podcast and you've already

accrued I want to know who out there We need a mobber or a rider. A tally of my points. To tally up Steve's Transatlantic slave points. Right. No, don't say that because then we're going to have a whole Twitter devoted to it.

All right, well, bro, grab her in my eyes. You're going to it before we go too fucking far. This Friday, the House of R will be giving you their deep dive into the premiere of Secret Invasion. You do not want to miss that. You also don't want to miss me and Joanna. talking about Black Mirror over on Prestige. It's really fun, the Giovanna Experience rides again. But the Secret Invasion coverage does it,

and there Jessica Clemens will be dropping a video of the Secret Invasion premiere right here on the Ringervor's feed. You got video from Clemens. She's warming up. She's going to throw her fastball, video, instant reaction here, deep dive there, video, Jessica Clemens. three-pronged attack video, instant reaction deep dive. Everyone's in on the Secret Invasion madness.

On Monday, Ben and Jessica, will be giving you their thoughts on the latest Final Fantasy video game. I love Final Fantasy. I love Final Fantasy video games. I can't wait to hear what they have to say. Next Wednesday, we're going to be continuing our coverage of Secret Invasion. On today's show, we're giving you our first instant reaction episode to the season premiere of Secret Invasion.

invasion. Now, we got to let you know, there are spoilers coming right now, not just for secret invasion, but to everything they've built up to secret invasion. We've been doing this for almost three years now, and we're sick of telling you guys that we're going to be spoiling stuff, but we've got to do it. Steve, bring me the spoiler warning. We're getting ready to talk about secret invasion. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. But before we do anything, we have to get into the need to know. We have to make you guys experts on not just this episode of Secret Invasion, but about

the background stuff too. And the only way to do that is to throw it over to Mr. Galaxy Brain, Charles, so he can give you the Midnight Manifest. All right. And this is your Midnight Manifest for Secret Invasion. First episode is titled Resurrection, directed by Ali Salim, written by Kyle Bradstreet and Brian Tucker. We begin with Everett K. Ross meeting with an agent who has a theory about a recent spout of global

terrorist attacks and how they're all connected. After a scuffle, Ross kills the agent but is pursued by Talos, a former scroll general that you might remember from 2019's Captain Marvel. Ross jumps off a building and is revealed to be a scroll in disguise when he perishes. Nick Fury returns to Earth at the behest of Maria Hill and Talos. Fury then learns that Talos has been kicked off the scroll council and that the remaining members of his kind are furious, that Fury still hasn't found a new world for them yet. A series of espionage shenanigans, we learn that the scrolls, led by Gravick and a shattery figure,

are planning to wipe out the human race and take Earth as their own. Gaia, the daughter of Talos, is intercepted by her father on her way to deliver dirty bombs, and he reveals that the other scrolls killed her mother. Gaia informs Talos that the next terrorist attack will be on Unity Day, but unfortunately, Fury and his team are unsuccessful in stopping the attack, and Grohavik ends up murdering Maria Hill, and that has been your midnight manifest for the first episode of Secret Invasion. Instant reactions.

Charles. What are your instant reactions to secret invasion? I can't wait. Yeah, I'm going to let you do the honors. How about you go first, man? Let's start this off right. Oh, my goodness.

So look, it's, I liked it. I thought it was a cool show. I was into it. I don't know what you expect. Okay, so let's let's compare this real quick. not to other properties outside the MCU,

but inside the MCU. Let's look at what an episode of secret invasion is supposed to do. Okay? If we're looking at the, let's say the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, all right, or if we're looking at Loki,

all right, or if we're looking at Wanda Vision, okay? Hawkeye's a little bit different. Miss Marvel and Moon Knight are a little bit different. Those are introducing characters. But if we're looking at those shows, they have these pretty significant,

pretty significant MCU occurrences that came like right before them, right? Pretty significant things that set up those shows. All right. In Falcon and Royal Soldier, you have at the end of end game, him getting the shield. In one division, you have the death of division. so there's so much intrigue in how the vision is going to play into the show and what it is that they're going to do. Okay.

In Loki, you have also in endgame, Loki taking the Tessaract and disappearing somewhere. We're wondering, well, what happened. So there's a natural place to start that. That means right off the bat, there's going to be a little bit more intrigue at the top of those shows. You don't really have that here. As a matter of fact, you don't really have. very much. They have to formulate the circumstances around this show in the first episode. And so when I watch it, I'm basing the first episode on how well they do that.

How well they're able to make us kind of come into their world a little bit. Because we're not starting with some of the exhilaration that we've had in other things that popped up and we're also not introducing a brand new character that kind of gets us into the origin. So when I looked at this, I think I was expecting a slower burn and a show that kind of got us into the weeds a little bit more of kind of this side of the MCU. And I wasn't disappointed at all. I thought it was cool.

I thought it had some nice chases. I was glad to see Nick. I thought the show did what it was supposed to do in the first episode. I'm assuming Charles, you felt differently? I think that this show has something that the rest of the Disney Plus Marvel shows do not have, which is one of the most charismatic actors at the center of it.

Samuel Jackson is one of the greatest actors of all time. So just watching him, like I was smiling. He can, I think we give a lot of credit to Robert Downey Jr. for forming the comedic patter of the MCU, but I don't think we give enough credit to what Samuel L. Jackson has done as Nick Fury

to really sell these lines to ground this world. So I was happy to see him back. I just think that tonally, this show was a little bit weird where it kind of felt like a USA version of Daniel Craig's Skyfall,

which is like, if that's what you want to do, that's cool. Like Ryan Johnson did a USA version of a mystery show on Peacock, Pokerface, that I loved. But it didn't seem like this show was doing it on purpose. It seemed like at points, this show was this very, like, character-centric look at Nick Fury, being out of time, out of place, dealing with the trauma of the blip and not knowing what he means to this world. And I liked that part of the show. And then there was just kind of

like the hokeyness of the scrolls and a lot of yada yadaing of past Marvel bullshit. And I was just like, I don't know if this show knows what it wants to be yet. Go deeper because it's when you say yada yottie of past Marvel bullshit, the hokeyness of the scrolls. So if you don't, if you think the scrolls are hokey, you'll never like this show. I thought that that's what the show needed to do. I think that this show needed to make the scrolls into more compelling antagonists, not villains, but antagonists.

And the best way I can describe it is, the difference between Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel is how the intergalactic world is painted. Like, James Gunn creates a world where even when the aliens look hokey, that's part of the bit. It's almost like Star Wars. When you watch those original Star Wars films,

You're like, no, the puppets and everything are part of this world. Captain Marvel was a little bit different. The reason I think it failed was like the scrolls looked dumb. Like the scrolls looked like they belong on a Power Rangers TV show. And what Secret Invasion has to do is... I mean, I don't think the Scrolls look good. I just don't. And I think Secret Invasion is trying to make something that has the same patina of Winter Soldier,

but also work in a bunch of sci-fi bullshit that doesn't look good. So it's a little weird. One second, Steve. So here's the deal. So then if the show, just so that we know, if the show has, that's a herculean effort, to take something that is corny and then uncorny it,

they've tried that in the past. They tried that with Stefan Urkel. You know, like to take something, I just let you know, to take something corny and then uncorny it, I want everyone listening and everyone that's on the podcast to think about times where something was corny and then it became not corny anymore,

that's very hard to do. Oh, I'm not saying it's an easy task. That's why I thought that this was going to be hard from the jump because I'll put you this way. If you put the scrolls from Captain Marvel into Winter Soldier, not from a story standpoint, but aesthetically, would it drag down that film?

It depends on how they're used, right? Because if, let's say at the end of Winter Soldier, when Black Widow takes her, rips her face thing off la Mission Apostle, they just stole that. I love that. They just stole that, right? So let's say, let's say if that wouldn't have happened if she'd have actually been a scroll.

Or if in Winter Soldier, they needed to get back into Shield and they went to some scrolls. We're actually writing a new movie. That's actually not that bad. They went to some scrolls to help them infiltrate shield so that they could get next to whatever they needed to do to take down Project Insight and all of that.

I think that would have been really cool. I didn't have any problem with the scrolls and Captain Marvel. As a matter of fact, I think the scrolls are one of the best things about Captain Marvel. If I'm being honest, I thought... This is wild. I do. I think what they did with the scrolls and Captain Marvel was actually pretty inventive,

knowing what I know from them, of them, should I say, from the comic books. I think having a softer look at them in that and actually turning it around on the crew a little bit was something I wasn't expecting. I think a lot of my problems about Captain Marvel, I'm just going to be honest with you,

come down to the performance of the lead. Like, it's a, it, the movie's really not that bad. It comes down to the performance of the lead. I think that she's kind of grown into the character. I'm, we'll see. But I mean, Charles, if you don't like the scrolls, you're not going to like the show.

I mean, you know, I like the scroll. That's the weird thing. I like the scrolls as characters. Like, I like the scrolls as like, in comics, they are so, they are so kooky and they are so fun. And, like, not to give Jomey any points here. But one, I think Young Justice actually did a very, very good job with Miss Martian in terms of, like, an alien race

that when they, transform, it says so much about who they are as a people, like, what do you transform into? How do you want to be seen by society? They, like, that series is a very, very good job of, like, using an alien race that can transform in very, very interesting ways. And the thing that I'm going to be looking for in Secret Invasion is, like, what does it mean for a scroll to transform? Are they comfortable as humans?

Are they not? if this is a, like, if this is an alien species that can be anything that they want, why do we only see them as humans all of the time? I would assume on their own planet of Scrolos or whatever, they could be whoever they want. Like, what is, I guess that's kind of like... Like, they could be animals. They could be dogs.

Like, if secret invasion was like, the real thing that I want to see, which would have actually made these air is like... Wait, wait, wait, nigga, you want a pet version? You want a pet invasion? Like, bro, first of all, we don't know. Think how sinister that is. What if Bozeman was a scrawl? You'd be like, you'd be heartbroken.

I'm not against this. Bro, I'm not against this, but I'm being honest with you. You have taken hating to an all new level. This is unbelievable. Bro, bro, you are now. How is this unbelievable? Charles. Bro, you should start a hating.

We got 50 minutes. Like, bro, it's the first episode of Charles is like, why aren't there? any scroll dears. I did not say that. I said what you need to show me about the scrolls, especially in the first episode, is what can the scrolls do? Like, if I haven't seen Captain Marvel in a long time, I'm like, they're like, oh, we hate Earth because they make us look like humans. And I'm just like, so if a scroll's not a filing cabinet in this show, you're going to be upset. Also, like, if I'm going to be real, I'm like, you motherfuckers have been stuck on Earth since the 90s. At a certain

point, it's just like, dog, it's been like, it's been 30 years of this shit. Like, hey, that's the same thing as my platform's take. This guy's something else, this guy's got something else. Men boys.

Am I wrong? They've been here's in the 1990s. Mid boys. What do y'all? What did y'all think? What's the instant reaction, bro? I thought it was fine. Of course she did.

You know, before you go, this is what you guys gang up on me on. The first episode of all this shit. Every single MCU Disney Plus show, y'all are like, Charles is a hater. Look at Charles, look at Charles. And then by the season finale, you're like, oh, man, happened again.

No, I tell you why. I'll tell you why. I'm glad you brought that up. Because, bro, I wanted to be good. And so... I wanted to be good, too. And so there's nothing bad about the show yet. If they give us six of these, it's fucked.

But I would assume that as the narrative of the show gets better or gets deeper that the show would get better. I'm gonna be honest with you, Charles. That hasn't been happening. So you have been right. I'm not going to, I'm not going to hold with you.

But I'm judging off this episode, I just, I thought it was a cool first episode. Like, you know what I mean? I said it was fine. I said it was fine. I said it was fine. I said on your shit. You want to see a scroll zebra

and until they give you one. Y'all are some lie motherfuckers. Because if you saw you saw, dog, transform it to a scroll, that would be the only thing we'd be talking about for the next 30 minutes. Bro, we might have some haters. I'm not, I'm saying, I mean, I think it's an

interesting question. Well, I do, but I just like, I'm just, I'm imagining you watching the show being like, man, why aren't they any scroll lions, just high as shit? Steve, what did you think about the movie? I thought it was pretty good.

I, I'm really compelled, because I think the premise of secret invasion as a show, actually really hooks me because I think this is kind of the best sort of playground to work with what Nick Fury is best at, the characterization of Nick Fury as we know him in the NCU is best at here and probably making the scrolls probably the most interesting that they can be in the MCU. I think probably giving the better shake that they got in Captain Marvel in this show to make them a bit more of the

slightly empathetic freedom fighters looking for a home and making Nick Fury kind of on the back foot, he's older, he's trying to make a fight more personal knowing that he owes this to Talos after all of these years. I think making that personal for Nick

is good. I hope to see more of a character study about Nick Fury to kind of see why he does what he does and why he comes back and owes the people that mean the most to him, we have this off-handed reference about like the Avengers being like his midlife crisis and thinking that he has to assemble a team to fix all the world's problems when really he can kind of take on more than he might be able to handle. And I think that the show might be able to explore that.

And I think that's probably what has me holding on for the most part. This episode is brought you by Boris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. Presenting the Friars turkey breast only from Boar's Head. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter.

Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head committed to craft since 1905. Let's talk about Dick Fury. we know Nick so well but we've only seen him and I wouldn't even say in a supporting role because

saying that Nick is in a supporting role does a, Nick is almost tangential to the Avengers in a way meaning they're doing something and he's doing something and he's trying to get them to do what he needs them to do while still allowing them to find himself

And it's always been interesting because you wonder sometimes how does Civil War happen if Nick Fury is around? Like, were they missing Nick Fury that entire time? Because he was gone for a little while. He was gone for a little while his influence was gone. Having him back and having this show be so much about him, is that something, Charles, that you are really looking forward to? Do you think Nick can do it without having his big green, blue, and hammer armed friends? What are they going to have to do to give him a clear-out and make his story compelling to like what Steve was just talking about? I think, to Steve's point, one of the most interesting and funny lines was that The Avengers were my mid-life crisis.

Because I think I want to see a show. This show would be successful if it can do a campaign. character of Nick Fury that examines what does it mean to have your entire world upended by gods, by aliens, by tech billionaires, and one day you are one of the leaders of the free world behind the scenes. And the next, within the span of five, six, seven years, you're snapped out of existence, and there was nothing you could do in your power to stop it. Like, that's interesting to me. Like, seeing someone like Samuel Jackson, play someone who was the most powerful person in his universe for decades

and then it all disintegrating over the course of a couple years, like give that to Samuel Jackson. He will kill that. That's what I want to see. When you say the most powerful person, Nick is almost like the Batman of even more so than Iron Man because Iron Man is so smart that he gets to like a God level. Nick is like the Batman of the MCU in a lot of ways

because he's always prepared. he talks these super powerful people into doing what he wants them to do. He essentially has weapons. He's weaponized these individuals who could squash him in a second. So I think that's a really interesting thing that you just said. But I think what I've never really gotten was Nick resting on his own laurels. like Nick in a specific place where it's him, his gun, and his spy skills.

We know that he has them, right? And he's trying to solve one specific problem. That to me is the most amazing part of this show. I want to see who Nick Fury is when he can't call Thor, when he can't figure out how to get Iron Man involved, when there's like nobody to help him out and he's just got to use his resources

and his relationships and his skills to solve one of these big problems and that if they're able to compellingly make the case that Nick Fury over the years that he's been around is as powerful for what he, for what he can do as the Avengers are for what they can do, then this show is a success. Steve, what do you got?

I completely agree. And I keep thinking back to Tony Stark being really shook in Iron Man 3 after the events of the First Avengers, where the idea of the things that he's fighting for completely get blown out of perspective, where the idea of extraterrestrial threats, aliens, gods, monsters, things that are beyond explaining, beyond comprehension, are things now that are at his doorstep and are things that he's fighting for. To Nick Fury, that was the snap. That was the blip. That was him getting snuffed out of existence and then understanding that there are going to be things that we can't prepare for. And Nick is still going to try to prepare for it. Him being off world for so long and being a part of Sabre is kind of him prepping for that and then immediately bringing himself back down to know that he has to deal with more so an internal conflict. amongst friends, I think that's probably something that A, is worth a broader internalization of like a character study for Nick. And I think something that's really going to be the best proving ground for this show, because I think that that's going to be awesome and probably something we've never seen for a long time in the MCU. I really liken it back to the earlier

days of Iron Man 3 when we kind of think about when a character has to change their perspective about what it means to fight for themselves and the greater good. I, the favorite, my favorite parts of the episode where when like almost every single character that Nick Fury interacted with, Talos, Maria Hill, Olivia Coleman's character, they looked at Nick Fury in the eye and was like, bruh, you're cooked, you're washed, dog. This ain't your life no more, man. Go home, go, you know, go rest on a beach somewhere. This life ain't for you no more.

and Nick is almost kind of like, you're in him, kind of like, well, you know, I got a job to do, but like, Dan, it is kind of hard to get up in the morning and do this now. And I think over the course of the six episodes, we're going to see Nick Fury get his groove back. And I'm interested to see what that looks like.

Because like, like, Van you've mentioned, like, it's easy to do this when you can just like call up Thor, call up a whole, call up Iron Man, like, hey, yo, get this done. When you got to do it by himself at this point in his life, after the blip when he's kind of lost all his connections, it's something that we haven't seen Nick do before. And so I'm very excited to see what that looks like in the MCU.

Maria Hill got some nerve. You got some nerve, man. I agree. That's the moment. Marie Hill got some nerve, man. Nah, man. She's acting like a, bro. Nah, man.

Maria Hill was acting like a Karen, bro. Like, she, Maria Hill got some nerve, bro. What? Well, you don't talk to me like that. Who do you don't talk to me? Also, who are you? You called me. Like, yeah.

Yeah, like, you don't talk to me. Like, you talk to me. You don't talk to me. And she, by the way, I went back a while. She always trying to get a little snappy with him. She tried to get snappy with him at the beginning of the Avengers. You know what I mean? He's like, yo, he's like, get all the phase two stuff out of there.

Face two stuff. Is that a priority? He goes, hey, I said go get the phase two stuff. Bench players talking like starters, I hate it. Like, man, like, come back. Nick, you haven't been the same. Hey, man, where the paper's at? What I need to read?

Get out of here. Like, you, she was, I love her here. Do we think Nick Fury was fucking Scrolls? Like, up and say, what? Because he goes to, he goes to Dallas. Jesus Christ, bro. And he's like, I know good looking scrolls. And I'm like, was he tapping scroll?

So this is my thing. with you. You have so many uses for the scrolls other than what the scrolls are here to do. Like you want animal scrolls. You want prostitute scrolls. The scrolls? Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Sex worker scrolls.

It's 2023. Fine. All right. I'm wrong. I, I, I, yeah. Or do scrolls not deserve some dick? Is that what you're saying? In 2020. I'm, I saw children scrolls, so I'm assuming they have sex, bruh, like, you know what I mean?

It's like, I'm assuming they have sex. Charles, bro, what the hell? He was the one who looked at Taylor's and like, I know good-looking scrolls. You ain't no good-looking scroll. I'm just like. I feel you. I feel you. Maybe so.

Maybe so. I'm sorry, guys. I do like the shade. He's like, you're not even good-looking human. What are you doing? Just banter between fellas, man, you know? Let's talk about the squirrels. We got into this a little bit.

I want to hear the men boys on this. So Charles wasn't really fucking with the scrolls prior to this. I thought they were cool. Cool as their comic book versions. Um, no. But like, I mean, but look, though, I mean, like, no, bro, I didn't know. Nothing in the MCU is as cool as the comic book version. That is totally a lie.

Iron Man is way cooler. Except for Iron Man. See, even let me finish, except for Iron Man. Except for Iron Man. As a matter of fact. And Thor, Thor is cooler. No, I mean, okay, so look, this is actually an interesting side discussion. I don't think that Thor is as cool in the MCU.

as he is in the comic books. I think both Captain America and Thor, it's close, but the comic book versions are badass. The Thor comic book version is just fucking nuts. Just a badass. He was in the gutter before the MCU. Oh, for sure.

He had cool comics, but I'm talking about shit got busy once the movie's. Yeah, I see, you're talking about popular. I'm talking about cool. Iron Man is cooler in the MCU. than he is in the thing. The scrolls, though, to your point, the scrolls are definitely cooler in comic books.

It's a million years, Crewe's Skull War. They're doing all causes. They got Super Scroll. We haven't seen that yet. But I like the MCU version of the Scrolls. The Scrolls kill crew? Yeah.

In terms of MCU Scrolls, I didn't have a problem with them. Again, I'm one of those people who liked Captain Marvel. I didn't mind the Scrolls as, you know, I like the twist where the Cree were actually the bad guys versus the scrolls. in that fight.

I mean, I can say, like, yeah, like outside of Talos, do we have any infinity for these people? You know, like, do we really care? But I don't, me and Ben Mendelsohn go way back. So that's my guy. So I'm rocking with him, you know. And so when I see him on the screen, I'm like, all right, cool. I understand, like, what, I kind of understand what,

I kind of understand what the stakes are now, because we see it in the end of far from home. Like, he calls Nick Fury directly, and while Nick Fury doesn't answer, like he's got the direct line to the homie so we understand like okay when talos gets involved that means something's going down and i think i can rock with that enough at least in one episode right at least in the first 15 minutes i mean talus is a dumb ass though like if we want to be real maria hill's death is on his hands like i was really pissed like he had he saw the bombs right

there and he just like let her go like i'm like dog you took your gun uncaught like took all the bullets out And you just let her leave. And now the team is down one member? I mean, that's the thing. He's a father, not a fighter. How many people died that day? Because he didn't have the heart to, like, shoot his daughter in the kneecap. Be like, you wilding.

You got dirty bombs in your backpack. Well, you also have to remember that she said the bags will be marked, right? And those bags were decoys. And it turns out that there probably were no bags in the first place. And people died anyway, right? They were just like a Chase, Operation Chase. I think she kind of might, I think she might have played him.

But here's the thing. Did Talos to not watch Game of Thrones the final season? If we've learned anything, don't trust Amelia Clark. But see, here's the thing, though. We're all discussing points that I think are very interesting about the pilot because these guys got out maneuvered. These guys got out maneuvered and they're down a member. I'm looking to see

and it's interesting whether or not the death of Maria Hill had any gravity. I knew she was going to die because when I was looking at the cast list at the beginning of the show,

I didn't see her name and I saw her in it. So I'm like, she's not going to be around for a very long time. She also pops in and pops out of things. I thought maybe she would be like,

oh shit, the power broker called me. I got to go to Madreport. So I didn't know. Can you believe who that was? Yeah, I didn't know what was going on. But I'm like,

she's not going to be in the whole thing because she wasn't She wasn't listed. But look, the fact that they got played to me tells you a little bit about the sophistication of the adversaries that they're up against. And I think that's interesting. That was a decision by the writers here to set some stakes. But even though we're used to seeing Fury, where she even said it, be three steps ahead,

for the first time he's not. And how is he going to get back to the point to where he's, his mojo is working. Let's talk about something that Charles put in a document that I think is really interesting, which is the plight of the scrolls themselves, which we've seen, not just as members of the flag smashers, we've seen this kind of done a couple of different times. They have new scrollos, which is in an abandoned nuclear power plant, it seems like, where there's radiation everywhere, but they're immune to it.

And it says here that it's a little similar to the plight of the flak smashers, but not just similar to the plight of the flak smashers. It's also similar to the plight of New Asgard, which is a lot of- Oh, damn. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which we're seeing in the MCU a little bit more,

people that are displaced from all of the carnage that we've seen from past phases. and what characters that we are, that we believe in, that we're attached to, what's their responsibility in helping these characters pick up the pieces. When I saw that, that was a really interesting bit that you put in, Charles, it made me think about, you know, that's a recurring thing that we see in the MCU a couple of times now. And that, so I ask you, Charles, that in and of itself didn't, seeing squirrel kids play soccer didn't make you feel for them a little bit.

You were mad that they didn't turn into lizards. No, I mean, the thing that I wanted and the thing that I'm interested in, and I think this is going to have to happen for Secret Invasion to be successful because we've seen it on New Asgard, to your point, because we've seen it on with the Flack Smashers. I don't know if Disney Plus

has the range to really ever delve into the deeper things about what it means, like refugee crisis, or like Israel and like all of these different things, very, very complicated shit that in the real world, it's hard to talk about. And what I think that this show needs to do,

which I don't think Falcon and the Winter Soldier did, very successfully, is like, what is its point of view on refugees? What is its point of view on what our responsibility is to them? What is Nick's responsibility to them? Nick to them is the man. He promised them, what, 30, 40 years ago, I'll find you a home and he failed. And I think that's very, very interesting in terms of like, what does it say about Nick as a government operative or former government operative that he didn't keep his end of the deal up for a marginalized community? And I don't know if

you can tell that type of story within the framework of the MCU well. You're not off. I mean, whenever they've tried to, we always, whenever they've tried to do that, it seems like it's always a little clumsy, with the possible exception of Winter Soldier, which they were able to pare down and get the bones out of and just tell a spy story.

It seems like either the villain in, Like, if we go back to Falcala and the Warrior Soldier, the motivation of the villain seems misplaced because it seems like there's a better way to do it. You know what I mean? And a lot of times when you're looking into the real world, you have these people that are leading uprisings or against these various structures international here at home that mean well but do bad things. And it's not through the binary lens of comic book, good guys and bad guys. And if you're going to do that, if you're going to do that, you almost got to have a Thanos type of buildup or maybe even vulture. They've done it right with villains before, but most of those villains are working for self. And they don't have kids playing soccer in the radiation nuclear away situation.

In Chernobyl, yeah. In Chernobyl. That is a solid point. So can I ask you all a really nerdy question? And this is what I think is maybe the problem about so many of these movies being connected. I saw the little kids playing and it reminded me of Guardians of the Galaxy 3

where I'm like there actually is a place in the universe nowhere that accepts refugees like this where the scrolls actually would not have to be humans where they could just be scrolls and would be fine. Maybe I'm missing out on something. But that was also something I was wondering about where I'm just like, there actually are places that we've seen

where different alien races can be. Let me tell you something. You are the biggest squirrel racist I have ever seen before in my life. You're questioning everything about the squirrels. You see the kids playing soccer, I want freedom for them. I want them to be able to go to the mall

and you're thinking, idiots, just get in a spaceship and go to nowhere and you can do whatever you want. This is the only thing I'll say about that. some shit is always popping off on nowhere, bro. I don't know if it's safe. Like, you don't know what's going to happen to nowhere tomorrow if a blonde Superman is just going to power his way to the thing.

Nowhere is always in trouble. But that's actually a good point. I mean, to be fair, though, I'm just like, if I'm a scroll kid, I'm like, damn, we're going to start a nuclear apocalypse. And then I got to clean up all these dead bodies. Like, I would have just rather gone to nowhere. You feel me? Steve, jump in and talk about.

the plight of the scrolls being displaced and refugees. You know, life, life, life, life's complicated, man. Life is, oh, come on. Rich tapestry of, you know, concerns. No, I, I, okay, I think that something that was like made very clear and apparent in this first episode was, in regards to the scrolls, um, there, I, I really liked the kind of, like, hierarchy of power that we'll say

was the fact that like the soldiers, the foot, the footmen, the actual like freedom fighters in this little society are constantly taking the roles of humans. Now it works twofold because A, you don't have to put makeup on these actors all the time to

emote and being constantly in a green face. But it's also to the idea that they're kind of assimilating themselves into this duplicitous role to know that this is something that is going to be ongoing and never stopping and they will always be dedicated to this like life. They have like racks of people that they are just stealing the lives from, stealing the minds from and seemingly keeping them there in perpetuity until this fight is done.

Assuming that they have Everett Ross there locked up somewhere, assuming that they have anybody that they want to. My question would be how far do you think that they take this and why haven't they gone further with it already? Why is it being, you know, gestating for so long other than for the fact

that, you know, it's time now. Jomi, you sound like you got something. The thing is, I mean, they explain it in the episode, but they go off at the end of Captain Marvel, they're like, we're going to find you guys a new plan, and then they just hang out for a long time. And so to Alice's generation, the older folks,

Like, hey, don't worry, Nick Fury got us. It's cool. The younger generation, like his kids, they're like, hey, man, not doing all this, bro. We got to get a planet. Let's figure this thing out. Where are we going? You know?

And so they're the folks, that younger generation, they're the ones out there on new scrollos, acting a fool, blowing things up, et cetera, et cetera, right? Acting a fool. Well, they're killing people, Charles. People are dying, you know? I mean, we don't know what happened, Jomey. It might have been a scroll Lives Matter summer. like, you know,

a cop in the world. They're taking people's brains over. They're taking people's brains over. Their mind melt. They're like taking, by the way, I, if they couldn't find another planet,

I kind of blame them. And I'll tell you why. I am. It's like, I do because it's like, you know, how many planets are out there? You know,

it's like, yeah, it's like, that's like, it's like, okay, we'll find another planet. It's like,

well, It's not a lot of planets. It's like, I can't think of, whoa, if it's another planet there's a planet to pick from. Nick Fury, that's a big fucking job. Like, you know, this guy that has CIA training. I don't know if he's the right guy

to be able to go out and get you another planet. I would go to somebody else for that. That's something I'll probably call Thor for. It's like, yo, he can't call Dr. Strange. Dr. Strange, yo, like, look for a planet real quick. I don't know who he has. I wouldn't give him that job. But that's interesting, the difference in the kind of thing,

you know, Talos and Nick Fury have a great relationship, but everybody not be fucking with that. They want to know when they're going to have a homeland. The fight for a homeland is a very central, motivating thing for so many groups historically, and let's face it, guys, even now on this planet. If they're going to do that, it has to be a central part of the narrative here. I personally thought that this episode was,

actually able to juxtapose the sort of scroll civil war if you will with the interaction with Nick Fury trying to protect Earth from collateral

damage by being a spy very well. I thought we saw some brutalized humans namely Maria Hill and then Everett Ross and that kind of shows you I mean not really Everett Ross but still seeing him there all messed up.

It shows you that there's stakes. So I dug it. I dug it. I don't know what I was expecting, but I liked the episode. But in fairness, it was a little rough that Nick Fury just like popped

that one scrawl. Like I was just like, dog. Like, they have a reason to be mad at you. And Nick Fury is like yada, yada, yada, like shut the fuck up. I was like, damn. Nah, you ain't gonna, nah, you get, take this hot lead.

Go over here making trouble. Ain't nobody, you know what I'm saying? Talos is gonna cook too. You know what I mean? Like, he was getting his dang whoop too. No, Talo's pissed me off. He's just like, I got this. I'm like, dog, you don't have this.

No, you never have it, bro. You don't have it, bro. You don't have it. All right. Grab it. Man, it's been a while since I've seen how to get away or murder. But I was saying that dude, I was like, he looked like West, man. He was just like West.

That's what you got, Jomey? That's all I got. No. Jesus Christ. What the fuck? No, man. I thought it was an effective, um, I thought it was an effective villain. And like, so the scene at the end where he's following, where he's getting followed by Nick Fury and he's walking through thing.

And he's changing like almost instantly. I think it's like, I mean, it's supposed to be like scary. Like, you don't know who he is. But I think it speaks to his talent as a scroll. Remember Talos in Captain Marvel's like, yeah, you know, it takes some talent. Like he's really good. Most people aren't as good as him. They can't change as fast as him.

And you see graphic change like instantly. Like he's got some real, dare I say, super scroll talent. You know what I'm saying? This is the new Mephisto. Hold on. Hold on. Let's say, let's relax. Let's relax.

Let's relax. I think, like, yeah, he think, and then obviously his plan is successful, right? He does what he has to do. And then kills Murray Hill to go off with it. You know, we can talk about that later. But I think after the first episode, yeah, like, you're not something to be messed with, man. Like, they got a, they got a respect him. Diversity is important.

I will say this. But I'm starting to get a little, I'm starting to get a little worried. Because have you noticed how all the villains in this, in our shit, currently are black people? Obi-Wan Kenobi,

Black women, Secret Invasion, black dude. Like, why all the villains all of a sudden, like? But look, but look, I have a theory about this. I knew you would. Oh, my God.

But it's actually, I think black heroes, are easy. I think true diversity is black villains and let me tell you why. Oh, okay. So having someone

who's fighting against either oppression or villainous shit or somebody who's trying to kill a bunch of people, genocide, whatever, that's a role that a lot of comic book

or sci-fi movie people can see black people in because really all of our stories are about that. All of our stories are about. I can make an argument that in Boys in the Hood, Trey is a superhero. I can make an argument that he's trying to live a life against all of this crazy shit. And at the end, the fact that he saves himself

is a heroic act when he gets out of the car. So a lot of the black movies that you see are black people up against these huge villainous structures, right? When we get to be the bad guy, that to me is an investment and a look into black individualism. To me, that's the freeing thing, not as a group, but Lex Luthor doesn't give a fuck about anything, but Lex Luthor, right?

Like, fucking the Joker doesn't give a shit about anything but the cobwebs and bats inside of his mind. But when you are the villain, that shows somebody that's a fully formed individual that is deviance of societal norms and that is doing their own thing for whatever reason. They're not like all girded under about what's happened to them. Sometimes they are. Sometimes it's from trauma. But they're normally cooler. They're off the beaten path.

And for a long time, all the villains were white because they were ingenious. because they were rule breakers and that's like not... I mean, also, to be fair, they were also like Russians and Germans and it was just like... True, true fact. True fact.

But I like the rise of black villains because it's just something else that we get a chance to do. Now, I haven't said that, yeah, they villainizing a lot of motherfuckers. Here's the thing.

I need my black villains with a little more, like, if you're going to be a villain, just be a villain. Like, Killmonger is a perfect example where I was like, I was like, all right, killmonger,

some points, but he's an asshole. Like, he's annoying as hell. Like, if you're going to make a black villain, just make him the villain. Like, don't do this thing where they're like, oh, well, he's not, he's good deep down. I'm like, no, dog. Just like, just make him an asshole. But is Gravick black? I don't, I mean, they scrolls, right? Well, he turns out. Steve, is Gravick Black or not? Yeah, Steve, what tells us about is Gravick Black? I mean, if we go, if we go back to Watchman, uh, Dr. Manhattan and a bit of a change of

identities was a different thing. Yeah, but he was being like, I don't know if this is an appropriation or not. But here's the deal, though. He was being like you, though. You are essentially the Dr. Manhattan at his podcast. He was only doing that so he could get with a black woman. So him turning into

Yaya, I'm doing my team second so that he could get with Regina is essentially like you putting Selma on. You are Dr. Manhattan. I'm not be honest with you, man. I never thought about this. You are old Dr. Manhattan-ass motherfucker.

You know how to build stuff? Bro, think about it. Br, bruh. Steve would be Dr. Manhattan. You know how to build stuff? You get all the ladies. You know what I mean? Like, Steve, you're kind of Dr. Manhattan.

That's something that you would do, turn black so that you could get with resisting the king. What's the opposite of a transatlantic slave point? A white supremacy point? No, no. No, no. No, no.

What would be the opposite? No. No. No. So if the transatlant slave point, I guess the opposite would be something good. Like an emancipation point? An emancipation point. Steve.

Whoa, hold on. That could be seen as a transatlantic slave. Oh, no. Like what's just saying? I don't know why. I just didn't feel right. All right. Ben boys, what did you guys think about, about graphic as a villain here?

I think graphic is cool. I really do love the idea. Like, it's this final. like a scene that we have in this episode where we really get to see how like cool and versatile their shape shifting abilities are. He goes from like a little girl to an old man to a woman to graphic himself. I'm really curious how versatile just he is with his shapeshifting ability versus everybody else because he seems to be the one that's like at least the best at it. and the one that's willing to kind of take on and manipulate all those other things.

My big question is knowing that he is the little girl with the ball and knowing that that's the connection that he had to Olivia Coleman, did he have something to do? Is Olivia Coleman possibly in league with the scrolls herself? To your point, Steve, one of the things, and coming back to what Charles was talking about earlier with some of his criticisms of the squirrels, one of the things that this show has to do

that Marlowe really hasn't tried to do with the scrolls. They really haven't tried to do them. And this is maybe a point to what Charles is trying to say is they've really used the scrolls prior to this as more of an aside in terms of their ability to shape shift, right? Like in, I think it's in No Way Home, the fact that that's not actually

Nick Fury and Maria Hill doesn't really mean anything. You know what I mean? It doesn't have gravitas. It doesn't have any narrative importance, really. Right. It doesn't really mean anything. It's not scary.

It's not consequential. It's just kind of a thing that happens and then we learn Nick was never really there. But doesn't really mean anything. It just shows you that squirrels are there. I think this show has to do something to the point that you're talking about, Steve, is they have to show you just what a problem the scrolls could be

because of their ability to change for. They have to show you how big of a deal, how big how much they can fuck shit up because that's such a crazy power to have. I think that scene was a good table setter for us to kind of understand that and kind of makes you look at the past episode. To Charles's point,

if the scrolls have been maybe a little bit more important or a little bit more sinister or a little bit more whatever maybe we already have a better understanding of how they've affected the MCU prior to this but I mean they really haven't gotten at

and hopefully we'll get it in a show so my other question is like because of the comic that this is based on it is a comic and the scrolls the whole tease of it is like it could be anyone do you think that this TV show has a high like a tall

order in front of it in terms of convincing us that the scrolls can be anybody. Because obviously you can't get like Robert Downey Jr. or Chris Evans back. But if I'm a scroll, I'm becoming Steve Rogers

and like going on Fox News and really just destabilizing everything. You know what I'm saying? Why? Why? What? They're trying to stabilize the whole world. I know, bro. But like, it's like There's subterfuge that you got to do. You mean the Steve Rogers who everybody is like, is he dead?

Is he on the moon? Who knows where he is at this point in time? Imagine if one of the scrolls just popped up in the hood like Tupac. And he's just like, I've descended from the mount. It's time to overthrow it. I've been Charlesified again. You've been radicalized by Charles. I'm telling you, I've been Charlesified again because at first when he said it, I'm like,

huh? but now I think about it they can fuck shit up easy they can fuck shit up they could go on tour right now it's the Beatles and everybody would be like what the fuck is going on and while everybody was distracted

the shots could go do some other shit I mean they really could when you think about it they really could there's so many questions right I mean I guess at some point it's gonna be easy to tell that that person is not Steve Rogers right

because they're not gonna be able to throw the shield or anything like that I mean but for a while it will work for a while I mean Think about In Falcon and the Winter Soldier. They were already just going crazy over a motherfucker who just had a suit that looked like Steve's. Imagine how much damage you could do in like 48 hours just running around Washington, D.C., you know, talking to Tucker Carlson. Yeah, Tucker.

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Because I think my problem is, is like, Maria Hill has just been a non-entity in the MCU for such a long time now where she's just been like an accoutrement. Like she just is there for five minutes and then she's not. I think that if we are going to compare this to anything, like an and-or, a death has to mean something where Maria Hill getting shot after the end. of an hour episode. I'm like, she was kind of being annoying

the entire episode, didn't have anything to do and she hasn't had anything to do for decades in the MCU now. I actually thought that this would maybe buoy her character

a little bit. I was shocked at just how unmoved I was by her death. I'm going to be honest with you. Because when you think about it, you know, Maria Hill has been around,

but there's almost not another character in the MCU like her that's been around as long and for as much of the story as she has been, but maybe gets five, six scenes tops in anything that she's in. Sometimes it's just like one. How long would her,

would her real, her MCU real be at this point? Like 15 minutes, maybe? I see you guys didn't watch Angels the Shield. Oh, so she was a serious regular on that? I mean, being for real. No. No. Oh, then what the fuck? She was in a couple of shows. Why did you bring it up, Joey? It goes from It goes from 15 minutes to a little longer. You know what I mean?

To like 20 minutes. She's got a whole episode on Asians and Shield. I never saw it. I'm being for real. Yeah, she was locked in on a couple episodes. So what would you say, Jomey? Do you have to average, how long do you think Maria Hill as a character? How much screen time has she had in the entire MCU?

I mean, if you think like, all right, it's like 15 minutes between like the movies, a couple episodes of Asians of Shield here and there. You know, uh, She was in three episodes of Ainsonson. So probably in like 30 minutes. Yeah. That's out of 4,000 episodes. You know, between the movies and the TV shows.

And the entire time, the entire time, the entire time she was there, she never did anything for herself. That's why when she was talking to Fury earlier, she never really did anything for herself. We never knew what Maria Hill wanted. I never saw those episodes of Asian and still, so maybe they did. She did. But in those episodes, she's always working directly on behalf of Fury. So why it sucked to see her Even Colson got

Even Colson Coulson got a lot of shit Colson was came before Fury He was in the movie before we saw Fury He was in Iron Man before Fury So but Colson got his Own sort of time To put his character together

And really cooked Cook now they got him out of the MCU pretty quick He was gone by 2012 But at the same time They really When he died Yes he was on agents of Shield Seven season

Cs I'm sorry. Disrespect is crazy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, bro. If we're going to be honest, the biggest unforced era is like,

Agent Colson dying in Avengers is actually rough. It's just like, oh, my man. It hurts. And then they brought him back for agents of shield. And now I'm just like,

was it worth it? Like, was it worth ruining Avengers just for a TV show nobody gives a fuck about besides Joe? Wow. But I'll say that

her death while not moving, it was notable that they killed the character. It was notable if she's actually dead because obviously it could be a squirrel with some crazy shit. But like it was notable. Or she could just be wounded

and maybe we'll wake up. It's like winter soldier. I don't know if she's really dead. But if she is dead, it was notable. Steve, your thoughts on the death of Maria Hill. Again, I know what it wanted us to feel. I know what the portrayal of this death of this character is supposed to do

because it's supposed to really bring home mistakes for Nick Fury. as to what he's up against. But in my mind, and I think that this is now the, like, set in comic book brain that we've all been adapted to, where we're like, all what does this really mean? What does this mean six episodes down the line? Is Maria Hill going to pop up again? Does this really mean anything? And I know that, like, the show is, like, literally just giving us, like, the, you know, baseline presentation of its stakes already.

but we're kind of embedded to think, all right, well, what's the next play? What does this mean long term? What's the actual projection of the stakes of this death rather than actually sitting in the moment and kind of realizing how important it should be? Instead, we're kind of just like, all right, well, what's next? I think that that's probably a bit more of an endemic problem about how the MCU has kind of treated death or at least treated the death of its more singular characters. but that being said,

I would like to be impressed at how real this death is and how consequential it is in the episodes to come. Have they ever used a life model decoy in the MCU? Well, C Charles. Season four of age to two.

She was getting it off today. There was a whole arc. It was a whole arc of LMDs. No, I think she's did. I think it's like, we've said it. Like, that's how you set the stakes of this series.

you know, regardless how we feel about it, killing Nick Fury's, you know, closest confidant, he's, I don't know if he's got friends. Most confidant. It's his number two for sure. Yeah, what you mean? That's his, that's his robin.

Without a doubt. I don't know. She, that's his, that's his Robin without doubt. He told Maria Hill, he's like, hey, I need you here. Deep Shadow Protocol. She was like, I got three hours. He's like, I got four hours.

He said, you got three. get here now. I don't even know if that's possible. Now, that's his robin for sure. That's his, that's his, yeah. Yeah, that's his motherfucker. It makes it personal for Nick. And so, you know, throughout the next five episodes,

we'll see how that affects him and how that motivates him going forward. Whether it's, you know, hurts us, that's a different question. Like, for me, it was like, dang, that's tough. I knew she was going to go. I mean, that's how you do it. I tell these things usually go,

these spy movies, they kill somebody close to the hero. And you're like, no. Oh, man, now this time, it's personal. And, you know, just, you know. This, this time, it's personal, personal. That's what it means. It's what it always happens to these things. Yeah.

So I was just like waiting. Like, oh, well, Maria, she's not long for this. It could be a fast ex situation where everybody comes back. Nobody died, bro. No. Nobody died in fast. The future is, bro. People came back to life.

Nobody died, bro. And, bro. Bro, nobody died, bro. It's crazy. They brought Han back. They brought Han back three different times. Like, that motherfucker got killed three times. Charles, do you think that any MCU characters are going to turn out to be squirrels?

And if so, which one is the most likely to be a squirrel this whole time? So I'll give you my most likely and my most wanted. I think likely is going to basically have to be whoever is already signed up for this show. because I don't know if you can do the thing that you can do in comics, which is like if they say, I don't know, Bucky was a scroll all along, people are going to be pissed because you just ruined a very, very good movie. So going off who everybody is, maybe Rodey,

like that would be pretty cool. Like imagine like a scroll already got like Iron Man armor. That should be tough. Most wanted, could you imagine? Could you imagine like our real Peter Parker is like locked up in a basement and when he gets out, he's like, pro, Mary Jane don't fucking remember me. Like, this girl done fucked up my life.

Like, Aunt May is dead. That shit would be hilarious, bro. Can you imagine? Jesus Christ. You want Spider-Man to be a squirrel. It'd be so funny. Everybody's been through. I mean, maybe that would be funny.

I was thinking that, you know, to me, I look at it as. like maybe villain scrolls. I wanted like Valkyri to be a squirrel. Why not? Valkyry? Yeah. They don't got powers though.

We don't know if they have powers yet. That's also the weird thing. Like, do, can these scrolls have superhuman abilities besides being like strong and fast? That's, well, that fucks up your Spider-Man thing because he's flipping around. You know what I mean? Like jumping off shit, you know?

No, no, no. No, no. Because he, with the, with the Tony, with the Tony suit, you can get away because scrolls already have super strength. So all he needs to do is, you know, need the web shooters and you're good. But he uses Spires, and all that, whatever.

I think Rody's probably a scroll. If anybody's a squirrel in the show, it's Rody. I don't know, Rody would be a squirrel if anyone's a scroll. Rode is probably a scroll. I have to be honest with you, that's the part that I don't care about. That's the part that differentiates to me

between the secret invasion that we got in the comics and this one. I don't think they're leaning as heavy on secret scrolls in society. I don't see how they're going to do that. I think this is more of a... Maybe they will. I don't know. It's secret invasion, so maybe they will.

I just don't see how you built that out to scale without bringing in a whole bunch of... And if it is, it'll be people like fucking Sharon Carter. Or you know what I mean? It'll be people like that. That's who I need to be a scroll. Oh, that's what you need to be a scroll? You need to... Your character assassination, her character assassination, if I want to be a scroll.

soldier. Some of the worst television I've ever seen in my life. So Steve Rogers was, Steve Rogers was knocking boots with the scroll? I would imagine it was after, right. After the, after Civil War,

you know, for her being the power broker and being like, yeah, I'm cool with people dying. She could be a squirrel. You know, like, I was like, what?

So if she turned out of being a scroll, that's real, that's real cinema right there. Oh my God. I know how to fix the MCU. If Rodi is actually a scroll, you know, it would be crazy.

if Terrence Howard comes back. That's fucking hilarious, that's crazy. That is fucking hysterical, bro. Come on, oh my God. Think about the level

that this nigga be thinking on. That's not just, that's not just that scroll mixed with multiverse mixed with meta commentary. That's so, bro,

that's so genius. He's been a scroll since Iron Man 2. That'd be so fun. And he's going to wait in on next. time, baby. They use a scroll spell and he up on the thing. That's funny. That's the type of shit that I would do. That's what I would do. Or if a scroll turned into, that's funny. That's funny. Come on. Come on, man. If a scroll turned into Terrence Howard, like, this would be my favorite

TV show of all time. Like, I would never complain about the MCU again. All right. So, Steve, you have anything before I ask the next question? Oh, I was going to put Valentina, Louis Dreyfus is a secret scroll. That works. Yeah. I can see something like that working. That's kind of the thing that we wouldn't give a fuck about. But like it,

but no, I'd give a fuck about that because she's, she wouldn't be the leader. I guess so. If a scroll is the leader of the Thunderbolts, that, no, they're not going to do that.

They wouldn't do that. I could. I mean, maybe she. But that, that's the type of characters that I think we're going to get a scrolls. We're not going to get some of the revelations that we got.

Like somebody that you felt was a protagonist. anyway, yeah. Yeah, they didn't set that up. Maybe they'll have one or two. I'm predicting that, but maybe they'll, maybe they'll, maybe they'll shock us.

So to that point, what does this show have to do to stop the cold snap that Marvel is in, Charles? I mean, it, for you, we're, one episode down, we got five left. What does this show have to do?

So I think that, like, I hate bringing up Andor, but I'm going to bring up Ander where I don't actually need the show to be the biggest hit. Like, Andor was not the biggest hit in terms of Star Wars TV. I just need this show

to give me faith again that the emcee you can tell full complete stories that make coherent sense, that are emotionally moving, that make me want to hang out with these characters

and think that, like, what, this is going to be five or six hours? The five or six hours I spent were worth it. And I think it has been a very, very long time. Guardians of the Galaxy 3 being an anomaly, because that's James Gunn, it's been a long time since I felt that from a Marvel project where I'm like, I'm happy that I spent these hours with these characters again. Like, that doesn't sound like it's a lot, but I think that's going to be very, very difficult. I think the comparison to Endor is like a tiny bit unfair.

actually it's a lot of bit unfair. A lot of unfair, but that's what Charles does. I mean, here's the thing, not everybody can be Tony Gilroy. I know, guys. I understand that, but also, like, oh, I just need... Charles, you're so setting yourself up for failure of the show.

Right. Like, oh, all I need this to do is to restore my faith in all of Marvel. Sorry, buddy. I don't know if that's going to do it. No, I say, restore my faith that they can tell a coherent story. That is asking too much? It doesn't need to hit a home run, but landing the plane is,

is obviously very important to this. I think the things that need to be hammered home perfectly are Nick Fury's the character. If this is a sun setting of that character, if this is probably going to be like a sort of final turn for us, we really want to like, I want to be able to call. He's in the Marvel, Steve. I understand that.

But I want to be able to call Nick Fury a hero like this. I want to be able to like actually feel like a resounding. So you know he's not sunseting then. I know that. Grim. Grim. Grim. Yeah.

I mean, for me, yeah, tell a Nick Fury story. Like, that's really all I'm here for. It's really a lot of us here for. You know, we can argue back and forth all day about the scrolls and whether, you know, they have a place here in the story or, like, whether they're kooky or not. But at the end of the day, if they tell a Nick Fury story, like a Nick Fury getting his groove back type thing,

I think that's fun. And I think that's all right. I think we can live with that at the end of the day. I'm all right with that. So this is my thing. I actually feel like this doesn't have to reinvent the will. Yeah. That they just have to tell a taught,

kinetically coherent, spy, shape, changer story. I think for us, we think we want one thing, but what we really want is another thing. we think that we want these big, huge, to both of you guys' point, all three of you guys this point,

we're joking around, but everybody there just made really solid points. I mean, Steve did say that he wanted to sunset a character that we know will be in another movie, but we know what he means. We know what he means. Sunset a black character? That's crazy, man.

Sunset towns? It's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, that's an automatic. That's a sunset. You want a sunset. Good job. Good job, Joe me.

Transit Land Slate Point right there. That's all. Lovecraft Country was all about that. Anyway. But no, seriously. What we think we want are these gigantic huge stories where fucking

Hugh Jackman's Wolverine shows up and the fucking guy who Dolph Lundren shows up as the Punisher and all of that stuff. We think that we want these things. But that's not really what we want. What we really want is for this stuff, if we're going to bring up and or anything like that, for this stuff to make sense and be good, to be good, something that we can watch from week to week and be entertained without thinking that they did too much or too

little. And I think for this show, for me, I just want this to be a good show. I want this show to have twists that I didn't see coming, and I wanted to, it wanted to have stable characterization. At the end of it, I want there to be a point of its existence. I want there to be a reason why this show exists. Not even in the larger MCU fold anymore. That's too much to ask. They, you know what I'm saying? They put the fucking celestial in the ocean.

Never came back to it. So, you know what I mean? So that's too much to ask. I just want this story to have a story to tell. Okay, that's it. I think that's what we all have said in different ways. I think to Steve's point, if this is, meaningful for Fury

if this is a sunset or maybe a sunrise for Nick Fury in a solo way it works. To Jomey's point if this is Nick Fury getting his groove back and we see him, I don't know that they did, if I do have a criticism of the first episode, I don't know if they did a good enough job of selling that he lost his groove. I don't know if they did a good enough job of selling.

He was still on his shit. He was getting busy, bro. To me, to me, I don't know if they did a good enough job of selling that he lost his group. He put the fucking little camera in the owl eye. He looked like he was on his shit to me. He shot the scroll. Like, he was the only one who was bringing the A game. The whole, because this is what pissed me off, really.

Maria Hill at Talos were looking at him like, you wash, man. You're not the same. I'm like, dog, y'all haven't put up any numbers this entire episode. He's the only one hitting the streets, like doing what needs to be done. I think, and they mentioned it. Like, this blip happens. And he goes through the space for Sabre. and you can reach him, he, like, disappears,

which is not Nick Fury-like. And for the two people, I would assume, outside of Captain Marvel, who know him best, for him to just, like, ghost like that is weird. And they're like, bro, that's not you. Like, what happened, bro? Do you know what a good idea for going, a good excuse for going ghost is?

Building a space station. Yeah, that's pretty good. Do you know what a good excuse for not being able to get to text back is, I'm building a space station to protect the Earth. But apparently that's different. Apparently that's not how he usually operates. So for him to come back, they were like,

yo, you came back after all this time. Like, what's up, pal? Like, this is not how, you know what I mean? Like, you disappear. You're usually, like, connected. Like, you lock, like, Nick Fury is always locked in. Again, three steps ahead. When you go off in space and nobody can reach you,

you lose all that, I've tossed all that connection. So you're like, all right, apparently, like somebody who. How old is Nick Fury though, Jomey? He's kind of, you know, how old is Tamilo Jackson? 60-70s? How many 60-70-year-old black men in your family? Like, just return your calls.

Like, it's just on their phone, just texting and shit. Calls, yes, text, no. When somebody's operation, like, they operate their currencies and information, right? And the reason, like, they're the goat is because they always have the information. They decide, hey, I'm good. off that. I don't need that no more. I'm good. You're like, hey, man, is everything all right? Are you okay? And then for, like, all right, he's gone. That seems important for someone again who many, like, whose currency is, is information to dis all that stuff. Then for him to come

back, hey, it must be important, but at the same time, are you good? Things have changed since you've been gone. Like, again, I think... Since you've been gone. part of the episode was like he did get captured on purpose by the goons right to put a card to put like a thing in olivia coleman's office like of course he still got the moves but the end of the day didn't work the whole thing got blown up right appreciate the backup singers the rest the rest of the series hopefully it's going to be him being like no no no no not only do i still got the moves not so i got the knowledge baby i'm getting back in this information baby when people know things,

we want to know things, they'll have to come to come to me because I'm the best. That's where, like, we get back to a Nick Fury that's approximately to like the winter soldier level. You know what I mean? I think that's where this is going,

hopefully. I'm with it. Charles, tell them about the man's restriction. All right. So, in honor of our first Disney Plus MCU show in a while,

we're introducing a new segment. Van created this. In the past, we've dutively covered shows for the entirety of a podcast, no matter the quality. But the MCU is getting washed and might need to be benched

for its own. Oh my gosh. What? I added that. This guy's crazy, bro. This guy's crazy, bro. All right. At the end of each pod, the four of us will vote on whether a show deserves full coverage

or should be dinged 15 minutes each episode for not living up to expectations. Each midnight boy must vote yay or nay with three votes, putting the current show we're reacting to on a minute's restriction for the following episode. Van, yay or nay? Yay. Am I voting for whether or not we should have the minutes restriction or no. A yay, positive, no minutes restriction. You're good to go. For right now, for right now, it's a yay.

For right now, I've seen enough, I'm not going to filibuster, I've seen enough to say, let's give the show it's due. Yay for me right now. Instant nay. That's easy. Jesus Christ. Yeah, I'm giving you a- Let me explain my nay.

Let me explain my nay. I mean, you've done a pretty good job explaining your name. Yeah. It's not me saying. The first thing you said was, so, you know. Minutes can't increase. I just think we're going to run into the issue we always do

that we get to the finals, the motherfucker tears their hamstring, and everybody's like we should have put him on a minute's restriction. So I'm just doing it early. It's preemptive. Right. Yeah, so you'll be on your right side of history. Great.

Got it. Oh, my God. If we get to the final, the final episode, and y'all are just like, yeah, that was mid. We're going to play this again. This isn't the Mulligans. It's not about being. right early.

It's always about being crazy. Instant name. Instant name. Just the thing I got said instant name. Jesus Christ. Show me.

Yay. Yeah. Like, we're interested, man. Let's see what happens, brough. You know,

let's let this thing cook for a little bit. Let's let it digest before we start taking a minutes away. Yeah. Yeah. For me as well. Yes. Very positive on this. Like,

I'm enjoying this a lot. I like the show. I like the show. We're not, we're not gonna get into mini-meter stuff because that's how we get fucked up. And we also need to have a state of the midnight meter episode to where we talk about,

we need to zero out the midnight meter. All right. So, I think only one of us needs to, because somebody is like, I have to say this, because Van has done this to me before. Like,

I have to clear out. If y'all motherfuckers do not chill on Van, bro, like, y'all keep bringing up old shit. Y'all keep bringing up old scores. Like, dog, it's fine, bro. Like, it's fine. Yeah, he's right.

But I will say this. This is what I want to do, okay? I want a midnight start over. His mentions are in Tatters. Midnight Reese and find out for his life on that. They're not. They're not. They're not.

Really, they've let it go. But I can't continuously do midnight meeting rankings and have everybody come back to two or three different midnight meeting rankings. Either the nine, for Spider, across the Spider-verse, or the eight for the major's reservations. Let it go. All right.

We got to bring back the integrity of the midnight meter, okay? I'm going to start writing three-page reports about why I rank something. Watch. Fuck out, niggas. I'm going to be honest. We should start a letter box for the midnight meter. For sure. Because, like, you know what I mean?

Like, start a little app. Like, midnight meter's going crazy, even though it's ruining your mentions, man. Give you guys a little something real quick. We did not talk about the AI that was used to create the credits of this, but we're not going to talk about it. But we do want to talk about somebody who said something that warrants discussion on this podcast. This is your Midnight Boys take of the week. Jomi, why don't you tell people who this guy is?

So, Victor Wimbunyama, ever heard of them? the French basketball star, the presumptive number one pick in Thursday's NBA draft. He's a 7-foot-4 Frenchman who can shoot the ball like Kevin Durant and guard the paint like Rudy Gobert. He is somebody who

you have to really see to believe, and even when you see him, you're like, wow, I cannot believe that this dude is the same species as me. like he threw a baseball at the Yankees game. That's a really rough. You can't believe he's the same species. Dog. Boy, I tell you like, man.

I'll tell you what, bro. You can't, you can't get a transatlantic slave point, Jomey? You can't? Damn, bro. That's, I, you're talking about how long as Achilles' tending is next. All right, stop. Okay.

Jesus Christ. Why are we talking about him, Van? We're talking. about him because he said this. First of all, when I say Star Wars, I don't count the three last. Yeah. The three last, what?

The sequels suck. Yeah. So my favorite is Revenge of the Sit. And my second favorite's got to be Attack of the Clones. And I'd say the Empire is dressed back. I saw Charles react to this. Charles,

you got a clear out on this, take of the week. Of all the Star Wars movies, to have Attack of the Clones be your favorite Star Wars movie What the fuck kind of take is that? To take that a 90-year-old, a 19-year-old would make? I want to see, let's look up

when Attack of the Clones released. Attack of the Clones released in 2002. When was Webbingyama born in 2004? This motherfucker was two when that shit came out, bro. You know how sick that is? That's sickle behavior. It's not like he was like a kid when it came out and he's like, oh my gosh,

start chirping. and the clones, wow. Like, nah, dog, you were two. This is, this is wild. Because then he's like, he's like, yeah, the sequels were trash. I'm like, dude. Do we think that he named the wrong movie?

Seriously. No, he said his favorites are Revenge of the Sith and then Attack of the Clones and then Empire. That is the wildest ranking ever. Children, man. Not at number one. Not at number one. At number one.

You're telling me Revenge of the Synth is better than Empire Strikes back. It's definitely not. But I can see, though, how someone would have the movie that high because of all the Star Wars movies that have ever come out in the Skywalker saga, worker, Skyworker saga, in the Skywalker saga, Revenge of the Sith is the most entertaining. Of all the, of all the, it's not the best, not even by far, but of what's up there. But of all. So, Henderson would never.

Y'all are nuts. So here's the thing. Here's the thing, right. If I'm going to rewatch a Star Wars film, it's Revenge of the Sith. It's Revenge of the Sith. Like, I'm sorry. Of all, like, of all of them to, like, be entertained by where, like, things happen. Of all, okay, of all the nine, you know.

Of all of it? Oh, my. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait. You would watch Revenge of the Sith before you rewatch Revenge of the Sith before you rewatch Rogue One, right? Rogue One is not a, Rogue One is a fantastic movie. But it's not fun to be.

It's not fun to watch. I would watch Empire. I would watch a New Hope. I would watch The Last Jedi. I would watch The Force Awakens. I would watch so many more movies than Revenge of the Sith. You lie.

Yeah, you're showing. Lying. That's Cap. You're not watching No Secret 1 before you watch Revenge of the Sith. We could do this at the house. We could come over and we could spend a weekend rewatching these movies. Revenge of the Sith is, it's the most,

fun of them to watch. It's got the most mess. It's got the death of May's Windu and the can turning. Younglings getting slaughtered. Order 66. Yeah, I can watch all this shit on YouTube. I can watch all this on YouTube, bro. Duke who, it's got, it's the most rewatchable Star Wars movie.

That's not the best one. I'm with Jummi. Most, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're saying it's the most rewatchable. 100% over empire. Over empire. Over him. Over Embar. This is nuts.

See, this is why, like, everybody's going to be in the comments being like, Charles hates at the MCU, why is he on the Midnight Boys? Replace him. And, like, y'all say some shit like this, and I'm done like, dog, am I in another dimension, bro?

Am I in another dimension? I'm just saying that it's more fun to watch the movie. It's more rewatchable. That's all I'm saying. It's not a better movie. You know what I mean? I think Solo is mad rewatchable. Y'all don't want to have that conversation.

You know what I mean? But I think Solo is like Solo is mad rewatchable. actual. Yes. Yes. Let's wrap this up. Let's let's follow too. Let's wrap this up. That's fine. Steve, I don't hear what Steve said. Take of the week. No, yes, Steve, Steve, Steve's disgusted with y'all. No, I'm finally with Charles. Like, this is insane. I don't get what you're talking about.

It's not insane. It's attack of the clothes is insane. Revenge of the Sith. Not insane. Revenge of the Sith over Empire is insane. That's insane. Not in rewatchability. That's insane. That's insane. Not in rewatchability. What part of empire is like, I mean, I guess like probably like the Vader

Luke fight. Oh, I guess probably. I just guess what parts? No, I'm serious. One of the best scenes in all of cinema. Oh, golly. Gee, Luke, I am your father. I'm not sure.

I'm not watching a whole two-hour movie to get to that point. I can see that on YouTube. The movie. How you doing your pirate? Revenge of it. Revenge of the Starl Being frozen in carbonate? Isn't what you want?

Like, come on, bro. Let's all that. So you guys are talking The whole Battle of Hoff? You guys, so you guys are talking about iconic shit and I'm not fucking with you. I get it. Would you rather,

the Battle of Hoff is awesome? I'm not, I'm not fucking with you guys. Toe cables, all of that shit. I'm telling y'all right now, Mace Windoo against Palpatine, the Mustafa duel,

Anakin's assault on the Jedi Temple, Order 66, all of that stuff. That stuff is coming back to back to back. You know what I'm saying? That stuff is coming back to back to back. I'm telling you, as far as, even the end, how ridiculous it gets.

No. You know, like, the death to pat me? I'm telling you, all right, well, let's go. I'm willing to do this. See, that's the fucking difference. I'm willing to do this. Charles Fly out, we go back to back with the fans.

We watch Revenge of the Sith and we motherfucking watch Empire. It don't matter any I put my shit up against anybody, bro. Revision is sick. All right, let's go. All right. That's a wrap.

Follows on socials, Insta Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomey's job. The Celine S7 is in sight. Programming reminders for you guys this Friday, the House of R will be giving you their deep dive into the premiere of Secret Invasion.

But the Secret Invasion coverage doesn't end there. Jessica Clemens will be dropping a video of the Secret Evasion's Premier Night Invations, I did the Black thing, Secret Invasion Premier Night right here on the Ring of Verse feed. On Monday, Ben and Jessica will be giving you their thoughts on the latest Final Fantasy video game.

And next Wednesday, we're going to be back with our coverage of Secret Invasion. Credits, our producer, is the amazing Steve, the architect Alman. Jomi, the Explanor, is on social. Hashtag, Jomi is a scroll. Which could be. if anyone on this was going to be a scroll it would probably be Jomey

all right I don't say this I feel like I could be a scroll like I just come back and I'm just like the most lovable positive person we would know and you're just like oh no easy easy to me would know Jomey is the one that could be a scroll

and you would never know kind of be in there Jomey could be a scroll here's the thing when the scroll when the scroll captures Charles and they're like take his mind and like he just goes inside of them It's like, ah, I can't do it.

I can't do it. It's so much. It's so much. The negativity. It's too negative. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ, man. You're free, bro.

Nah, you free, dog. Nah, bro. You're free. Go live your life. Charles will want to be a scroll. Like, do you guys turn it to any animals? Yo, get out of the nuclear power plant. Additional production from Arjuna, Ra, Gapal.

Chuck, take us out. Scrolls should be dogs. I don't like Denny's. and when it comes to Star Wars opinions, I really don't trust Wendy. Steve, you want to say something? No, no, it was a quick sidebar because everybody right now is freaking out

that in the comics, Tony Stark just married Emma Frost. Okay. Like they had a wedding and all that stuff and everybody's like, Tony's fucking this up. Yeah, well, I'm telling you, he got himself a white queen. You know what I mean? He's already an addict.

Wait, did y'all see, did you all see the cover of that shit? Gene Gray is holding is holding Cyclops's hands like it's all right baby she'll come back It was like No Cyclops fucked that up He fucked that up

Sorry bro Cyclops be doing too much man What are you talking about? So brough Cyclops first of all Cyclops back of the day was kind of the man in that

Silak was trying to get with him But he was loyal to Gene Gray He kind of goes from God from girl to girl. And then he became like a mutant fundamentalist. Ain't nobody trying to be around that, like the Westboro Baptist Church mutant. Like,

ain't nobody trying to be like... He's kind of like the Nick Cannon. He's the Nick Cannon of the X-Men. Like, I mean, but here's the thing, though. Like, the thing with him is that he was a lame for a long time because it was like Wolverine kind of got your girl. And then he just lost it. It was like, I'll do what I can.

So I don't have any sock also pop back up. But it would be a drag to hang out with him. That's what I'm saying. No, yeah, he's a bad hang. We're off the subject.