The Ringer-Verse - 'Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings' Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

Charles and Van rejoin to give their instant reactions to the latest highly anticipated entry in the MCU's Phase 4: 'Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings' (08:28). They talk about the hypnotic action sequences (24:39) as well as breakout star Simu Liu and how he can be destined for MCU greatness (49:29). Then they award their favorite fight scenes, funnies moments and more (66:20). Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The watch is the latest and the greatest in pop culture from best friends Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. Join them as they discuss TV, movies, music, and much more. Check out the watch on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia,

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Come into the ringerverse. This is of course the ringer's nexus podcast fee for all things fandom. We are sick, Steve, Alman. We are Jomi the trader.

Jomi Benedict Adelon. Benedict Adoneron. That sounds like sort of loser talk to me. That's what that sound like. We are. Kyle Kuzma, relax. We are Coke

Baby Chuck a. K. Kobe baby Chuck. A.k.a. The closer. A.k.a. Clarence Daryl.

A.k.a. Johnny. Cochran. Chuck. And we are tragic Van Lathan. old man forget van

but together it's all good together we are known as other midnight boys okay so I just want to get this out of the way congrats to Jomey and Mal

who presented an amazing case and are kicking our asses stumping a mud hole in our ass I just want to get this out of the way we want to get this out of the way we took an out it's fine we took an L again we took fine

but let's be honest more than anything I took a nail. This is one of those situations. You remember LeBron in the 2011 finals against the Mavericks where he only scored like three points in the fourth quarter of nine games consecutively? He took a step back

and then he came back. Hopefully one day we'll come back, but I'll tell you one thing about this is I don't, I want no, I no longer want midnight courts with against Charles. I mean, maybe a couple of them. Every fucking midnight court from now on,

every single midnight court is House of Midnight, Midnight Boys versus the House of Mow. Every single one. I won't get back. Retaliation, revenge, and get back. Yeah, I won't get back. I won't get back.

I won't get back. Also, somebody called Kerm, somebody called Lil Spidey. Because Jomi, the Trader, I don't even know why you on this recording right now. What are you doing here? You picked your team. You played your hand.

You played your hand. Listen, all I'm hearing, is y'all lost. Y'all didn't have what it takes. Y'all right, bench warmer, all right? Like, you acted like he gets one ring. Hey, listen, a ring is a ring. What you're going to tell me?

That is true. Coast is still running wing before Yannis. What you mean? That is true. I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. No, I love Jomey. I'm fucking with you, Joe. You're like, congratulations.

No, no, no, no. No, no, no. He betrayed the midnight boys. Don't get me wrong. That's true. Like, but at the same, but at the same, but at the same, But at the same time, that a ring is a ring shit is real.

I saw Jack Haley. Y'all probably don't even know who that was. He stole a ring with the Bulls because he was Dennis Robin's pal or something. I saw him one time and people were getting on his ass in the airport. And that man held up that ring. And it was the biggest get off my balls that you can really give to anybody. Like you were, you ring Adam Morrison, two-time NBA champion. Yes, sir.

Yeah. Yeah. By the way, Jomey contributed nicely to the win. No, I'm totally joking. Jomey, you did your thing. You did your thing. New listeners, what we're talking about is we had an all-time midnight court. Emotions ran high.

We debated Spidey versus Spidey, Best Spider-Man, Tom Holland, Spider-Man versus Toby McGuire, Spider-Man. We lost. Charles was absolutely brilliant. I was spirited, but not on my best game. And it was a lot, a lot of fun. And I think the real winners, of course, were Madeline Chummy because they won. But also, the viewers, that was a lot of fun.

That was a lot of fun. But now it's created an attractible schism. is what it's created. Now what we have is we, you know, you remember the Dream Team? Because this is what we are. House of Midnight is the Dream Team. All right, is everybody together.

Like, we run this fandom thing over here at the Ring of Verse. House of Midnight is the Dream Team. But if you go back and you watch the Dream Team documentary, what was the most heated competition during the Dream Team's entire run? It was the practices when they were Dream Team against Dream Team. And that's how it's going to be in these Midnight Courts.

I want all of you guys to come up with ideas for midnight courts and send them to all the socials so we can figure out what we can argue against Mal and Jomey. And by the way, I don't want to switch the teams up. I don't care if, I don't care if I don't even agree with Charles. Okay. I will, at this point, the hatchet between me and Charles can be buried so that the fucking axe can be built between me and Mal and Jomey. No, it's on site. It's on site.

It's on site next time. On site. On site. It's fine. It's on site. We're Drake. They're Drake. We're Drake.

It's on site. We're going to put your address up. No, in that situation, we were definitely Kanye. We were definitely. We were definitely Kanye. You're right. All right. So this, though, getting into the Now is a bonus instant react podcast to Shong Shi and the

Legend of the Ten Rings, a movie I've had the pleasure. I've seen twice. Now, programming reminders. Next Tuesday, Mal will do a deep dive into Shang Shi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. And next Wednesday, we will be rebranded. back to reacting to what if. And the first edition of Midnight Mailback. So we're getting your mailback questions together right now.

We're going to have your mailback questions. Make sure that if you want your questions read on Midnight Mailback, that you hit us with an email so that we can read your questions. And what are the exact parameters for Midnight Mailback? Steve, you can jump in and let the people know right now. The ringerverse at gmail.com. You could submit your voice memo questions. They have to be under 40 seconds.

us one of your favorite midnight boys moments, ask us your question, and keep it nice and brief. And we'll remind you guys at the end of the episode. Yes, yes, yes, that's what we're doing. Okay, make sure you follow the Ringaverse on socials, Facebook, group, Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff. We know the Ring ofverse has been in the MCU multiverse very lately,

but that's only because the MCU is on a hot streak. We promise you, though, there's going to be more content diversity soon. We're all about diversity over here. So look out for Star Wars Visions, Dune, D.C. Fandome, all of that stuff we're going to be covering. And also maybe some stuff that maybe we'll do an anime episode because I've been really getting the anime because of you guys. I've been watching neon demon, evangeline Lily.

Neon Genesis Evangelion. God damn, man. Right. And I got to be honest with you. What I need to know from the anime people out here. And Jome, you can jump in if you have any answers. What's up? You know, because I liked Berserk back in the day.

and that wasn't really just a barrel of laughs is there a happy anime? Is there an anime that is going to make me because neon demon evangeline Lily is very fatalistic, bro. Is there an anime that there's going to be like a pick-me-up? Is there a plucky one? Okay, what's a plucky one?

What's the plucky anime? All right, what are you in the mood for? Like, what type? What sports, fighting, heroes? My hero academia. We need you to watch my hero academia. You would like that. What is it again?

It's like, imagine, My Hero Academia. Imagine the X-Men, but just in anime. Okay. And it's called Mikey, what? My Hero Academia. Oh, my hero academia.

I thought you were saying, Mikey Rockadamia. I was like, what kind of name is that? Why is he Rockadee? My Hero Academia? Yes. My hero. Why don't you say it's slow?

bro. Y'all try to flex y'all anime skills on me. Like, my hero academia. Okay, my hero academia. You'll love it. If you don't love it, you, like, you can never take another opinion from me, but I think you will love it. Okay, I'll check out Mikey Rock. Mikey Rock, Damia. I'll check

that out. All right. Enough with the pleasure, she's with ten minutes in. We've done our thing. Now it's time to dive into our conversation about Shang Shi and the legend of the Ten Rings. A very important and a very groundbreaking entry into the MCU.

That means we've got to hit you guys with the spoiler warning. Please run that, Steve. We're getting ready to talk about the movies. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. I bet they are. I bet they are. All right.

So here's a deal. Charles, I've seen the movie twice. How many times have you seen? Sean Shih to this point? I saw it twice. I think the first time I saw it, you know, it was a little jarring. I was in a room full of critics. Nobody laughed.

Nobody cracked a smile. So I was like, all right, I got to be with the people. You know what I'm saying? I got to see it twice. See what the audience is thinking. My girlfriend, I brought her. My girlfriend has seen like zero Marvel movies ever. She does not care.

So I'm like, there's a good litmus test if she likes it. She went and that was, I needed to see it twice. because the first time I had one feeling, the second time when I was with the people, I had another feeling. What about you then? The first time I saw the movie, first of all, both times I liked it.

I thought the movie was a solid entry into the MCU. I liked it the second time better because I think there were certain things in the first time that I was so not off put by, but they were so unexpected that I couldn't fall into the movie. There's a twist that comes halfway through. And if you're not expecting it, If this is not your vibe, it can be very like,

yo, is this a different movie? And I think second time you watch it, you're like, oh, like you expect it. You're a little bit more in it. Yeah, I totally agree. And you and the, you know, you get to see the audience's reaction to it. And also, I'd say something else.

Sometimes a byproduct of being in the position that we're in and having a podcast where we react to these things and cover these things is that it does sometimes subtract a little bit from us just purely enjoying the content. because watching with the critical eye, watching with an open heart or two completely different things. So movies that I even saw when I was a kid, they hit different because I was watching them just for,

I was watching them just to see how good they were. I was watching them to be wondered and to be amazed. Now, that's not to say that we don't do that now, but it is to say that sometimes when you go into a movie with certain concrete expectations, you have to make it a point to kind of unmixed that, concrete and get back to the free flowing water that is its base so that things can come and things can go and you cannot stay connected to them, you know? And viewing Shangxia's second time,

it kind of showed me maybe some of the hangups that I had in the first time I watched. Doesn't mean it was perfect though. Doesn't mean it was perfect. But what I'm saying is I enjoyed it a lot much better than the second time and I enjoyed it the first time. So that's a good sign for the movie that I liked it better the second time that I saw it. now it's currently got a 92% Rod Tomatoes with a 99% audience score. Now, I had gone on record and saying that that 92% wasn't hold, but it's holding.

And it looks like Shang Shi is destined to go down as being one of the best reviewed entries into the MCU. Okay. What? I didn't say anything. I feel like you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm on a high off the closing argument. I don't want the fans to turn against me.

I'm just my words very carefully. I enjoyed this movie. I love you, C. Mulu. Like, I love this movie. I'm not like, yo, you're trying to get me in a trap, man. I'm not trying to get you in a trap. You know what we're going to do? We're going to forget about the Rodden Tomatoes ranking right now.

We're going to come back to it a second, talk about the movie. But right now, I'm going to give you guys the 90-second recap. You can set the vibe, set the tone. what do you want to be like? All right. Give me a little traveling music. Okay. Give me something.

Give me something that's a little mellow, but uptempo is the same, the same way. Give me something, give me something, give me something, like makes me feel like a little daddy. I want to be a little daddy. All right.

Let's not get weird. All right. All right. All right. Running in the clock. And three, two, one, go. The film begins with a voice. over where we learned Shang Shi's father,

Wyn Wu, is the sole possessor of the mystical and powerful Ten Rings artifacts. In search of even more power, when Wu meets and falls in love with Zhang Li, a woman guarding the gates of her mystic homeland, Tai Lowe. The two get married, leave their mystical pass behinds and start a new family.

Fast forward to the present day with their son, Shang Shi, now lives in San Francisco after the death of his mother caused his dad to break bad again and raise Shang Xi as a deadly assassin. Chong Xi and his younger sister, who also escaped home are eventually found by their dad who reveals his plan of returning to

to Tauolo to free their mother. We get a flashback to her death scene. When Wu believes his wife is still alive and is willing to burn Talo to the ground for her freedom. Chongxi accompanied by his buddy from the bay, Katie, played by Aquafina, and his sister run into Trevor Slattery, the artist formerly known as the Mandarin from Iron Man 3, who is now a jester living in Shong Shih's father's dungeons.

With help of Morris, a mystical creature kidnapped from Tau Lowe, Chongxi's aunt hooks him up with dragons-scale gear as they prepare for the movie's final showdown. Shang Shi puts up a worthy fight that actually learns to control the 10 rings before pleading with his dad to give up the pipe dream of the saving his deceased mom. It's too late, though.

When Wool's actions caused the dweller in darkness soul-sucking dragon to break free and he kills when hewold. But the day is saved by Shang-she with Katie surprisingly landing a hawk-eye-level accurate arrow, which turns the dragon battle, time. Time? Okay, I'll finish it. Shang-she and Katie then return to the Bay as heroes where dinner is interrupted by Wong. Wong plays a big part.

During the mid-cred scene, Wong alongside Avengers Bruce Banner and Captain Marvel are stumped trying to figure out the 10-rings artifacts and caution our new heroes that the trajectory of their lives has forever changed.

Then in the post-credit scene, we see-Shang-she-s' sister taking control of her father's old operation with the title card promising that the new and diversified 10-rings army will return. All right.

I did my best, but to be honest with you, there's a lot going on in this movie, guys. All right, the second time around I watched the movie. I was like, this movie is long. That I remember. I was like, this is like three movies.

All right. We have something new to share with you guys. It is called the Midnight Meter. It's a ranking. And I know you guys are used to rankings being one through 12, but we're the midnight boys. One through 10. I know you guys are used to rankings being one through 10,

but we're the midnight boys, which means we go all the way to midnight. Our ranking is one through 12. Okay. As super fans, most movies will be in the 6 to 10 range. That's how things go. But 12 is reserved for game changers. We're talking about the Dark Night, in game.

Spider-Man 2. Movies like that that are truly definitive and change the landscape of superhero movies. Just not a lot of them. Not a lot of movies out there like Spider-Man 2. Yeah. That rethink the entire genre. Okay. Now, midnight meter, your ranking 1 through 12, what do you give Shang Shi?

I'm thinking an 8. I'm thinking a strong 8 out of 12. 8 out of 12 is, I think that's what I'm going with. Let me do some math. You tell me yours, and then I'll do the 8 out of 12. So I got 9 out of 12 because it would have been, I got 9 out of 12. So between 6.5 and 7 out of 10 is what I would have. Actually, let me do 8.5.

I want to do 8.5 out of 12 because, that's 70%. So I want to do 8.5 out of 12. 9 out of 12 is good for me. Those are both healthy scores. Those are really, really healthy scores. Very, very healthy scores. What I'll tell you is that Marvel has,

Marvel is introducing a new character here. Marvel is introducing a new world here. It's just been a while since they've had to bite that entire thing off, right? It's been a while since they've had to dive back into the place of introducing a brand new world, introducing a brand new set of skills, introducing a brand new power set,

introducing a brand new mythos to anyone. And I thought, for the most part, they did a masterful job of doing that. I cared about Shang-She. I cared about Katie. I thought Katie was great. I thought the movie had some surprises like the Trevor Slattery stuff

that really, really worked. And overall, your origin story film, besides the movies like Iron Man, is never going to be the strongest entry from your character. And I thought I came away. I had high expectations from this movie. And for the most part, the movie met the expectations.

What about you, Charles? I think this did what a Marvel solo movie has to do, which is basically make you believe that that actor is this character. I would say like Captain America, the first Avenger. It has to convince you that Chris Evans is Captain America and Captain America lives in this World War II world. And it just has to sell that. Same thing with Thor, Iron Man, all of these things.

And I think Shang Chi, if you're grading it on that scale of like, oh, like, I want to see more of him. Is Simulhu a star. Do I want to see more of Shang Chi? Yeah, it worked. Absolutely. That's what, like, I want to see this handsome man doing like all these martial arts on a really, really big screen. And when I saw it, I was just like, yeah, I love Simu. Like, if you've been listening to this podcast, I speak very, very highly of this man. Kim's convenience got me through much of the pandemic. And he's just like, yo, he's on his victory lap. I'm really, really proud of what he and the team did. So, Shang-she is supposed to be and will exist in the Marvel universe as not now just the wielder of the Ten Rings, but in the regular Marvel universe, he is by far the most skilled

martial artists that they have. Now, when I say by far, there are a lot of people who are going to jump in. They go old taskmasters up there, Captain America's up there, even Iron Fists is up there, but Shang-she's reputation is of being a living weapon, a human weapon, and the military. master of the martial arts. With that sort of backdrop, that sort of bar set from the comic book source material, how did you feel that the fight scenes in this movie went? Do you feel like they lived up and delivered on Shang Shi's martial arts prowess?

I think the fight scenes are the best part of the movie by far. The bus scene, them fighting on the skyscraper injected into my veins. That was like those, those were the high peaks of the movie where I'm just like, I guess the one knock is I'm just like, Tim, y'all really showed me like 75% of this in the trailers. But even then, even with that, I was just like, dog, I just want to see more of Shang Chi like just kicking ass in a bus. Like that was amazing. When it happened on screen for the first time, I was like, yeah, man, this is wow. What did you think of those fight scenes? The skyscrapers scene was absolutely breathtaking.

Bonkers. I loved it. I tell you. why I like stuff like that. I watch it and I go, these guys are so good at martial arts that they don't even care that they can fall off the building.

They know their balance is that great. I always love it when martial arts guys fight on a piece of wood or like levitating from a goddamn helicopter or something. But they don't care because they have such balance that they're not even worried about that. They're worried about the fight.

And his sister's there. She's throwing people off. Aquafina's there. They have to save her. I thought that Aquafina fell off the building but then a sister swoops in and grabs her. It's just great. And I thought that the, I thought that they delivered on making me believe that

Shang Shi was as good as he is. Now, they walked that back a little bit, to be honest with you in parts of the movie. They definitely seem to be people that were his martial arts equal in this film, like his sister. But at the same time, I didn't know in this film that he would take possession of the 10 Rings like that. So there's an extra added sort of power set that Shang-she, I guess is going to have in the MCU.

Wait, really, really, really quickly. talking about Shang-she's fighting. You know how on Twitter they had that dumb argument? Like, who's like a real hooper? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, is Shang-she like a scrapper like that? There were a couple of points in the movie where I'm like, dog, if you don't bust this man's ass,

like, there was a couple times where they're just like, he's the greatest in the world. And like you said, they were just like, nope, and that was the moment where I'm like, me, Sean, if you don't kill this motherfucker, I'm going to be honest with you, when you make somebody the master of Marshall, arts, that's a high bar

because you ever watch like a I'm sure you watch kung fu movies. In a kung fu movie, the main character is very rarely the best fighter in the movie. The only guy who really ever did that was Bruce Lee.

Bruce Lee would be in a movie and Bruce Lee would be like, I'm the greatest fire that's ever lived. All right, send a million people at me. I'll kick all their asses. And if you cut me, I'll lick the blood. You cannot hurt me on Bruce Lee. But in a lot of these

Kung Fu movies that we see, there's always a teacher or somebody above him who is just so immensely untouchable that the same thing that the hero is fighting against the teacher dispenses of us dispenses of in like three moves.

I was wondering which way they would go with Shangxi if Shangxi would just be completely untouchable by these guys or if he'd be a guy that's better than them but still has to expend a little energy to get past them And I think they went with option number two here. Do you think Damien Wayne could beat Shang Chi really quick? No, I don't think that any of the Batman-esque people.

I know that you keep... I really tried to sneak that in. You're riding with this. I don't think that any of the Batman-esque people. I think Batman can still get him, though. No, he can't. Batman can't get Sean-Chi's not a scrapper like that. That was my only thing.

Like, you don't got the heart for it. He was about to kill the guy. And I'm like, all right, yeah, the dry... Get that Koonai right into his chest. But he don't got the heart for it. But what's his Batman? thing. Shong Shih is washing Batman in martial arts. No, he's not, bro. Yes, he is, bro. If Shong Shi, if Shong she can't be Batman at martial arts, then what does Shongshi have? Like, if he can't

be Batman in martial arts, what does Shongi have? And by the way, just give Batman some preparation time. By the way, they already made this movie. They made this movie where the white guy goes over into the people's culture and becomes the best of them. It was called The Last Samurai. And I remember even watching, so Tom Cruise is an ex-Civil War dude, right? He's a Civil War. He's a Civil War fighter dude. He's a general in the Civil War, whatever. He's alcoholic and he's got like a sword. And he ends up going over to train the samurai because not the samurai. He goes over to train people in Japan because they're moving away from the samurai. Whatever, he falls in love with the samurai way of life. And guess what happens in one year? He becomes one of the

Dopeest samurai ever. And these same guys who've been trained in samurai since they were two years old are taking their orders from damn Ethan Hunt. And I was in the movie. And I remember being in the movie, I was like, I've had enough of this.

I'm like, I had enough of this. And he's the last samurai because they all get killed. But of course, he lives. I was like, I've had enough of this. Sir, telling me, Bruce Wayne is the last samurai. I'm telling you, you think that he is. And I'm telling you right now. Don't let me.

I'm telling you right now. I'm just saying he don't got nothing on with bed, man. I'm telling you right now, you think he's the last summer ride. I'm saying Shang Shi is going to dress him down. Now, if Bruce is in the suit, he's going to have specific files to stop Shang Shi from beating him. We're getting off the point here. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business.

And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips, yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear

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as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. But overall, I thought to, getting back to the martial arts scenes in the movie, I thought the martial arts scenes in the movie

really delivered, but I do think that the movie ended up becoming much more about martial arts. The film, midway through, took on a scope and a size that I really did not expect the movie to try to

do not even see it coming. I thought the film was going to be mostly a street level film of Shang Shi coming to reckoning his situation with his father. But that's not what happened. We got all types of big, wild, spiritual, huge

set pieces with absolutely mythical creatures and stuff like that. Were you surprised by the overall scope of this film? Were you surprised that they went as big as they did in the third act. I mean, obviously I watched the trailers.

I saw some of the CGI creatures. And in the back of my head, saw it coming. But the first half of the movie is so street level. Like, I immediately just forgot all of that. And I was like glued. I was just like, all right, man, Marvel is making this street level movie. It's going to be dope.

It's going to be like Captain America. Boom, we in here. And then halfway through, that shit becomes like the first Thor movie. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. were like, there's a magical place. There's CGI animals. Wait, there's magic.

Like, what's going on? Like, it was, it was jargness. Like, be real, man. When that happened during the first view, we were like, is this another movie? Well, when Little Morris ran out. Oh, yeah. I knew what time it was.

Like, when Little Morris ran out, because they did go to a, they went to a magical place early in the film when we was having a flashback of the first time that he met Sean's mother. But that wasn't, that's still kind of grounded. It wasn't like what we get. Right.

Well, they set up a mythology. No, I'm agreeing with you, but I'm saying there were hints that they might do something like that. And I'd realize those hints in the second time I saw it when they're sort of flashing back on Wen Wu and his reign, his 1,000-year reign as head of the 10-Rings organization, they show him defeating the entire army with the aid of the 10 rings. So there was some, the first time I watched the movie, we dove right into the street so quickly that I forgot. There were some hints that they were going to go a little bit bigger than what they did. So I shouldn't have been surprised. But at the same time, when the little character, when Morris ran out there,

Morris was adorable, by the way. But when Morris ran out there, I certainly was surprised. Oh, in the beginning of the movie, when I saw it at a second time, they do do, like he's when we was like turning a page. and you see a little, like, drawing of Morris and the dragon. So I'm like, oh, the movie was trying to prime me for this thing. It just, like, I don't, I didn't get it until the second viewing. And I will say the first time around when Morris came out, I was like, dog,

they just brought out the CGI creature. And when I brought my girlfriend, who's never seen an MCU movie, she immediately goes, oh, he's so cute. And I'm just like, Disney knows what they're doing, bro. This is like, that's one of those things where I'm like, this is for kids. Like, this is for Happy Meals. Like, I get it. Like, he's cute.

Morris. Like, yeah, like, that's a, that is one of those things where, like, when we were talking about when you see a movie with critics, I did hear one awe from the rest of the critics. But yeah, when Morris ran out, when I was with just the people, they were just like, yeah, this cute. It's cute. I like Morris. I like Morris. Now, we definitely want to touch on how this movie embraces Chinese culture. And before we touch on that, I want to make sure that the people that are listening to us know something. We're two black guys and we're about to talk about a movie that deals heavily with Chinese culture, right? So we are not qualified to have this conversation, but we are going to base this off what we've seen from some of the people

who are appreciating the film online. And I do hope on the Midnight Boys, we're doing this instant reaction podcast right now, but I do hope to have a conversation with someone who is representative of the culture to come on and tell us how Shang Shi moved them and how it spoke to them individually because I remember going to see Black Panther and watching everybody sort of have the situation with Black Panther.

Black Panther is a movie I've talked about some of his shortcomings on there, but that doesn't mean that when I was in Black Panther, that I didn't feel an intense sense of pride, an intense sense of belonging into the greater MCU

and watching what was happening on the screen. And those are thoughts and feelings that I'm not sure that people that were outside of my culture properly contextualize. So here, I want to make sure that we're telling everyone that we're not attempting to properly contextualize those things, but we're just talking about some of the praise that the movie's been getting online. Some fans have been saying it's the best Western made Chinese fiction movie ever.

And I think that's such an important thing. And it's also very important. A subtle thing is important in the film that Chinese dialogue is in the movie with English subtitles. When I saw that and that they weren't speaking English to make it more palatable to a Western audience, that they were putting it out there and giving us the subtitles, it told me something. It spoke to me that they were trying to be authentic first and movie makers second, which is very important to grounding a character and making it connecting to the culture that is supposed to be representing. And it's just, it's, it was an insanely personal thing to do. It was an insanely, to be honest with you, risky thing to do. And I think that the filmmakers really show what they were trying to do and who they were by doing by doing it.

Did you have any thoughts on that aspect of it? Oh, I thought it was brilliant. I think the movie doesn't work. If you have a bunch of characters based in, you know, China and all these Asian countries, if you have them speaking English the first time we meet them, that doesn't, it takes you out of the movie, even if like for, you know, I don't know, middle America, that might have been more palatable.

So I think that was great. I also think just the general feeling, because I remember when I got to see Chad with Bozeman on a big screen as a superhero. What people, like, a lot of times don't really recognize is like generally when you see these movies, like the black guys like the side king. You know what I'm saying?

Like a Chinese American would be the sidekick. So when you see Simu and he finally dons the Shang-Chi, the Shang-Chi suit in the movie and he looks big and handsome as an action star, it hits you. You're just like, oh, you don't really see this that much. Or you don't see a movie where people are investing millions upon millions of dollars into it. So I thought that is like wild. And obviously I am not of Chinese descent or anything, but I was just like, this is cool

because Simu is somebody who I've like been campaigning for a while. And I'm like, damn, they made into a movie star. Like that's, it's a special moment because like, man, we got to be real. Like, how many times in a year do we actually get to see like a new action star? Oh, very rarely. Very rarely. I mean, especially now, it, like, it really doesn't happen. And that's a fantastic point.

I think another thing about the movie is that it was good to see that like everybody has their magic. You know, we look at the MCU and it's like mystical realms and Asgard. mystical realms, sorcerer supreme, mystical realms everywhere. We saw a little bit of Dr. Strange go to other mystical realms and be around other ethnicities and stuff, but it was cool to see that there is intense

and immense power in places being wielded by characters who frankly aren't white. To see that there's a whole, there's a whole mystical realm like Asgard, Talo, where the people lived and where they had their own special creatures and their own sense of, their own villains and their own deal is like all of this magic and this wonder that the

the MCU has it exists everywhere in the MCU. Obviously there have been some places that showed that. Obviously, we've seen Wakanda. We've seen other places. But I feel like this film right here, it reached outside of cultures that are just that we see all the time on screen and show me. I was just, I felt in love, I fell in love with the wonderment of that. I've really never seen a movie like that before.

I've never seen a movie where it explored that deeply. Obviously, there are films like Crotting Tiger and Hidden Dragon, but where they explored that deeply, something that was completely foreign to me and that I could get lost in. And I thought even though it was an intense tonal shift when we got to the magical realm, I appreciated it because it made the world a little bit bigger

and a little bit richer. So I appreciate it to try. although I wasn't expected it. I will say I appreciate the swing. Right. Because I do think that like everything you said underlined, love it. Like I totally agree. And I do think that like I respect the massive swing that they took to try to make a world that people can believe in, a world of wonderment.

Something similar that they tried to do to Black Panther, which I thought was just like, all right, got it. And I think, but I think the one thing I, before we get to that, I really want to touch on is like, I think honestly, the better part of the movie is that they made me care about Shang Chi's family. Like that, on the second viewing that, I was like, oh, this is the heart of the movie. Like, this is like, Shangchi's father, you know, Tony Leong in the mood for love fame, legendary actor, he killed it as Shangchi's father. He, like, that man can act. Like, the, the MCU has, like, has a massive villain problem.

We've already gone over this. He kicked ass. Like I actually do think spoiler when he dies. I'm just like, no, you shouldn't have killed him off. You shouldn't have killed him. You shouldn't kill him off. Like they shouldn't. They once here we go again, doing the same shit, killing the villains.

Shouldn't it killed him. He was a very grounded, a very real villain. He was a relatable villain, man. He was getting played. He was trying to save his wife. He was doing it. His motivations were clear. The schism he had with his son was clear.

He was a father, but a hard father. Shouldn't have killed him. Shouldn't have killed him. Shouldn't have done it. Your heart broken over this man. What? I'm with you. I loved him.

I thought he did a great job. My man was acting circles, bro. Like, I loved him. Shouldn't he killed him. Now, we got to call the movie out a little bit because that's what we do here at the Midnight Boys. We react to films and we tell people what we thought about them. What were your nitpicks?

My nitpicks. As far as we are dealing with this film. We're celebrating the movie here. We want to make sure that we do. But we also want to talk about what. of a nitpicks were in the movie. I think my big nitpick is that when they went to the magical land,

I think that they did a cardinal sin for films where they did not trust that the characters that they had built up for the first two thirds of the movie could carry a movie without this like CGI slug fest. Once the dragon popped out, like the two dragons popped out,

I was like, all right, you know, y'all are on some bullshit. Just in terms of like, no, I care about Shang-Chi and I care about Sean-Chi's sister and I care about these people and I just want them on the screen. I do not, the dragon, the soul-sucker took me out of it.

And I will say, a villain named the soul-sucker is a why. For a villain, they get on the soul-sucker. And in my mind, I was just like, get out of the gut. Soul-suckers. We're going to send them soul-suckers. Yeah, we'll send them them-suckers. Soul suckers. I'm like, stop.

Drake just made an album by bottom. Drake just made an album about the soul suckers. The whole certified lover's talking about soul suckers. Wait, but then, like, am I like, yo, but like when the CGI creature started showing up, I was like, cool, cool, all right, cool. Like, they have some magical creatures. But I was like, man, when the soul sucker came out

and they have to start battling this big dragon, and I will say the biggest nitpick. And Steve, shout out to Steve. I know he, six Steve, agreed. with me. Top five worst MCU movement of all moment of all time is Aquafina killing that big ass dragon. I can't believe

they did it. With an arrow. Like that is like, I can't believe they did it. It's like Jomey and Steve, if you want to jump in, bro. I can't, I literally, I can't believe they did it. It's such, it was, I don't even know how to start contextualizing. I'm just like. It was a moment in the theater that actually broke, I was sitting next to Jomey

when that happened. And he actually like, killed over and put his head in his hands. I couldn't deal with what was going on. I could not believe what I was seeing in the moment. Like, it's, it's into, like, she literally says the movie, yeah, I just started shooting arrows a dare to before. It's like if somebody, like, you gave somebody a basketball, and then the next day,

they were hitting shots from Dame Liddler, Steph Curry range. Exactly. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't, she would, like, she was Hawkeye all of a sudden. But here's the other thing. What doesn't make sense is like, this is why I don't think the soul sucker work. I think everything else, like just make this about Wenwu and Chongchi, is that they build up the soul sucker.

Like this is a villain that almost destroyed this whole place, this whole magical place. And you're telling me that someone who learned how to shoot an arrow a day before can mortally wound it by just shooting one arrow in the throat. Why the fuck didn't they do this a thousand years ago? My thing is it would have been better off to me if in some way she had accidentally hit the dragon. like if you if you play it off she's shooting with her eyes closed or she shoots it and it ricochets and it hits the dragon and they just got lucky because it would almost take lucky lucky to defeat something that was that powerful and that that old and the fact that it was also so easy for that to for me to see that coming oh i saw it coming from a mile away the minute that she picked up the bow you knew that she was going to come in handy in the fight in some sort of way and if they would have made it

that she came and handed to the fight. Because remember, it's even an accident that she's there. It's happenstance that she's even there. And if it would have been happenstance that she contributed to the battle, that have been one thing. But I just thought it was really, really, really bad that they had her make that shot. And also, yeah. Let's be clear.

Bullshit. When the soul sucker kills Shang-she's dad, I'm just like, this is how he's going to go out. I'm just like, you built up this amazing villain, this amazing villain for two-thirds of this movie. And he just goes out like that. Like, no. Like, it's just, that I think is the ultimate sin because I love these characters so much. And I think actually, like, the family unit was so grounded and so emotional. I got it.

And for the end of the movie, he's like, oh, he's dead. And then they just forget about him. No, you got to trust your actors more. You got to trust your characters more. Yeah. So look, the movie had a big time tunnel shift. We've talked about it. The first time I saw the.

the film, I'm not going to lie, it actually really bothered me. The first time I was like, how did we get to that? That's not what I was expecting. And when I saw the film the second time, knowing that it was there and just watching it for the sort of dazzling array of special effects and story and creatures that were on the screen, I think that I appreciated it more. And watching Shang Shia's second time, my review and my number went up, which is a very very very important to what you actually think of a movie.

It got better the second time I saw it. So that was a deal. But still, though, my nitpicks were the film actually became a completely different film in the third act. And that was something that stood out to me. Although I will say this, the one thing that grounded the film was the amazing choice to bring back the character of Trevor Slatter. and have Ben Kingsley just steal the film during those times. The Planet of the Apes thing in the car is top five funniest MCU moments ever. I'm hard pressed to think of anything from the MCU.

You guys, throw some stuff out at me that's funnier than that. I mean, obviously. Luis's recounting of the story. Luis is recounting. I will say Drachis. Maurice's recounting is great. Corr with the piss off ghost and the rock paper scissors joke. I'll say drag from the first film.

He's just like, I would catch it. Yeah. Yeah, Drax in the first film. But like, it's up there. Can I tell you all I know what's funny?

I think it's funnier than those. It's not funnier. Like you're, whoa, whoa, it's funny though. Bro, I think him fundamentally not understanding

that the apes were actual people. And they kept, going with it, it was hysterical to me. Go ahead, though, Charles. I will say, we got out of theater. I was like, to my girl, I'm like, do you even know who that character is? She's like, no, I just thought it was funny, which shows you how good it. Like, she's never seen Iron Man 3.

I was trying to break it down. She's like, oh, cool. He was just funny, though. Yeah, like, it doesn't even matter. Like, when I first saw it, I thought that that was actually a testament to how, how great the the MCU is. The MCU knows that that was a miss. they know that the Trevor Slattery thing was a miss.

And they came back and they said, hey, we're not going to make a whole other universe. We're not going to say that that never happened. We're going to own up to it. And then we're going to find a way to extract the entertainment value out of it because we have a top rate performer in Ben Kingsley. And we have properties that we can go back and retcon something without slapping you in the face with it.

We can start a whole new and tell you what was really going on. and we can use story to do it. And I think other comic book universes and other universes, period, need to look at that. We as the fans, we're not stupid. Like, we're not, we're not stupid. We know that sometimes things are amiss. You can't change them, lean into them,

and trust your stories to get out of them. Make a story. Make a story. This is less a nickpicking more of just like a general question for you, man. Like, would you have liked the version of this movie that tonally stayed in the street level nature of it a little bit more than the last second plot twist. I think there could have still been magic,

but like the CGI slug fest of these dragons. Because like walking out, I was like, damn, they went a little bit more Thor with the second half of this movie when I was expecting maybe more Captain America. I would have liked the film to kind of stay in the world that it was and for us to get our mysticism through more of the uses of the tin rings. which are obviously, and then it seems like,

but I understand from the MCU standpoint why it was difficult to do that because we have less movies to burn to get Shang Xi to a level where he could be an Avenger and fight against maybe Celestials or devians of Celestials or perhaps King to Conqueror or where we just have less movies to get him there, you know? the Captain America from the Captain America in the Avengers wasn't prepared to be the Steve Rogers that we got to end game right. Like there's a there's he just wasn't. He wasn't quite there yet.

He hadn't learned how to control the team. He hadn't been humbled yet. He hadn't. He just hadn't. And so we got 13 years to get him there or whatever. How many every years to get him to the point to where he could look at Thanos and the outriders and everybody come in and say Avengers. is a symbol and that he had to wait for everybody to follow him and that he had the certain confidence even in the face of death that this was his stand that he was making.

With these characters now, we actually don't have that much time because the stakes of the Marvel universe are getting raised to a point to where they need to be ready to go. And so I think what the movie did in his final act was it was expediting Shang Xi to the point. He gets the 10 rings in this movie. I've said it before. They were expediting Shang Shi to the point to where he could face off against things that were much, much larger than him to be an asset. I mean, let's just talk about it.

At the end of the movie, Wong comes in. He's like, yo, Sean, Katie, come back with me. We see Bruce Banner. We see Captain Marvel. They got the 10 rings. And it's like sending a beacon somewhere. And immediately my mind goes, oh, Celestials. I'm just like, they like, all right, that street level shit's cute.

Shangxi needs to be ready to go by Avengers 4. Like, let's, or like whatever the next Avengers, would that be the fourth, I guess, or fifth, whatever they're calling it. And I'm just like, all right, I get it. I get what time you're on. Damn, like, but it was, it's jarring. Because like you said, we got, what, three Thor movies and Avengers

to see, to see him develop into that next phase. And with Shangx, they're like, all right, we're going to give you two thirds of a movie where he's the street level guy. And the next, when everything goes up, he's going to be on the same level, if not the same level, on the level of like a Captain Marvel. So when he's next to her, it doesn't look weird. Yeah, Bruce said, welcome to the circus. Yeah. Yeah, Bruce said, welcome to the circus.

He says, welcome in. Like, you're a part of this now. And that's a thing. That's a thing for Shang-She. You know, and so I think, and that's interesting. With the Eternals, it's different because you're basically plucking angels out of heaven. And they're ready to go whenever. I mean, they ain't help us when we were trying to get smacked, but whatever.

Like, they're angels, their angels out of heaven. They're ready to go. You know what I mean? But some of these other characters, you know, they got to, it's almost as if Marvel has a DC problem now. And so, DC always put itself up against Marvel, which made their characters a little bit flimsier because they had to develop them so quickly. Marvel took their time in the early going and gave us all of these people so that when

they were called on to be heroes. We knew what they could do and what they couldn't do, and we trusted that. D.C. was like, hey, you know this guy, he's Superman. Hey, you know these guys, Batman. Hey, whatever.

Let's get them right there. Second movie, we got the Justice League together, basically. You know, you have Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman together. And then it's like, we'll fill in the holes as we go. So you're saying we're not getting

a second Shang-Chi movie before we get the next Avengers. I don't know. You, like, you might, but you're definitely going to get a lot of involvement of Shang-She in these other films because they're going to be fighting huge multiversal foes and he's got to be ready for.

And so in this phase of Marvel, you're going to see these characters get to where they're going a little bit quicker because the stakes are so high, like a lot higher than they were like before. And I think that this is the first movie where you've kind of seen that on screen. Well, after the mid-credit scene, I want to ask you really, really quick,

who are the Avengers going to be? Because after, like, I'm in this and I'm just like, damn, like, I don't know how you get the same type of iconic team yet. Because I just don't know even now who's, like, really like a ringer for it. Like, I know Captain America Falcon is already in. But who else? Shang Chi is going to be there. Circe, maybe from the Eternals. Be Captain Marvel, Captain America.

You might get an eternal in there. I'm not sure which Eternal. I halfway think that Akers is going to be a bad guy in their Eternal's movie. Shang Chi is a showin. Chongxi is going to be in there. Whomever Black Panther is is probably going to be in there.

And then Spider-Man? Spider-Man, of course. Spider-Man, of course. Maybe even Doctor Strange in a weird way. Dr. Strange, definitely. He's a big, he's a heavy hitter. But who's the Iron Man now? I don't know if it's going to be War Machine.

I don't know if it's going to be Iron Heart. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's still a lot of answers I have. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. I want to talk about Simulhu himself a little bit. Do you feel like Simulhu is destined for MCU greatness? Did you see enough out of his character as Shang Shi to think that this is going to be a portrayal that people are going to want to see vault to the top and be more of a Tony Stark, Iron Man, Captain Rogers,

Captain America, Chris Hemsworth, Thor level character, or do you think that he is going to fall somewhere in the Ant-Man level to where he's a lovable lead portrayal of a character that's important, but almost in a way,

maybe a second-tier leading sort of an MCU character, which, what do you think he's the future holds for Simuloo as, as, as Shang-she. I think what I want and what will happen are two different things.

I would love for Simulhu, for Shang-chi to be vaulted to, you know, that trio status, the cap, the Iron Man, the Thor, iconic, they're the leaders, whatever.

Right now, it's seeming like he's going to be more on an Ant-Man level. Because, like, think about it. Like, they, it's too many people.

How would he reach that level if it already seems like they're putting Captain America, Falcon, right there. It seems like they're seeding Captain Marvel in there. And you already have Dr. Strange. You already have people who've been waiting in the wings.

So I don't know, Shang-chi, but then again, if this movie does box office numbers. Like, if it, like, breaks records, they might do the Black Panther thing. We're like, suit up. Shang-she, suit the fuck up. You're an A-lister. I just don't know.

I think it's half box office, half. You have, like, a lot, like, let's be real. you have a lot of actors who've been waiting for their chance. Like Anthony Mackey, like Benedict Cumberbatch, who's like, nah, man, like sit down. It's our time. So I don't really know. What about you?

I think those guys better make room. I think that, I think Chongxi is going to get every opportunity to be that. And, you know. Does the character as Rayton have enough charisma to get there? Is actually my, is my, because like, charisma level, he's closer to, like, Chadwick Bozeman, who is, like, a good focal point, but, like, a big knock against the Black Panther movie is he's not the most interesting part of that. He's, his whole job is facilitator, making everything work, where it's like, Benedict Cumberpatch

can trade bars with Tony Stark. You feel me? Like, it's a different level of charisma. And as written in the movie, it seems like they want him to be more of a facilitator, instead of being the guy who can, like, land barbs and jokes and go back and forth with, like, Peter Parker. And see, this is the thing. The question is really going to be whether or not subconsciously MCU audiences and audience in general are comfortable with seeing non-white characters lead these fights. You know, it, it's, I hate to break it down to that, but there's

no other way for me to really process it. Well, let's be real. Anthony Mackey ain't got the highest Q rating after Falcon in the winter. Like he got some shit where I'm just like, even if you don't like the TV show, people was going in on him. I'm like, damn, like, let's like, let's not act like Captain America, the first Avenger with some like Mona Lisa. Can you give my man a chance? Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? To buy him as the guy who is the strategies that are leading, that's leading the Avengers, it's easy for me.

I've known black men who've led my entire life. But for other people, it's just, it's interesting to see whether or not it'll go that way. You know, even Star Lord. Star Lord comes wrong, and after one movie, Star Lord is respected as a, as the leader of the Guardians of the Galaxy. And as somebody who can put together a completely coherent plan to take down Nathanos, even if he is too fucking stupid to actually adhere to his own plan, all right, and too emotional. Okay. But he's, but he's got, it's really going to be partly the writing of the MCU, right? And partly the way these characters are received by the audience.

That's why I think the reception that Shangxi has gotten is so important. Now, we talked about, I talked about the fact that I thought that the reception would be something like this because I think a lot of people are going to be, have a vested interest in making sure this character is well reviewed because it's coming from a different place and there's diversity involved. But at the same time, the fact that many people are genuinely loving what they're doing over there is just like super. important to building the next phase of the MCU universe. So I think he'll get the chance to, but it's really going to be about how people deal with seeing that up on screen, you know, and how they develop him and kind of make him into what he's going to be. The one thing I will say, and we'll talk about this later, I think the one knock that he

probably didn't get is that, like, we got to fall in love with Black Panther in a big movie like Civil War. So Chadwick had to do less. And I think that's why Black Panther ultimately was better, because we already set the scene. We already set the emotions. We already love the characters from Black Panther. And I think you probably wouldn't have had as many third act problems in Shang Chi

if he had debuted in another movie because then you can get a lot of the table setting away. We already are invested. We already see Black Panther going toe to toe with Bucky. So we're like, all right, he got hands. In this movie, it's like, nah, Shangxi's usually. new. This is like, like, we're still trying to buy that he would be in the MCU. So I actually give the movie extra points for that because they didn't get the Civil War bomb. You feel me? Like, they didn't get that. Right. Right. It's true. It's true. And that was a smart way that they

did that before. And once again, they don't have the anchor characters involved like Ironman and Captain America to really be able to shoehorn people into other movies and have us get to know them through that anymore. They don't really have it. Those characters are gone. So they lost a lot of the Avengers movies aren't around right now, so they lost a lot of their base to actually be able to do that. And we'll see the way they do it in this upcoming phase. I want to ask you one last question about his Simulhu's portrayal of Shangxi. What are the similarities or differences between what we see in the comic books

and what we see on screen? Your comic book, Chuck, you've read a lot of Shang-she. I haven't read a lot of them. See, I don't want to say I've read a lot of Shang-chi. The most Shang-chi I've read is generally he's in the Avengers. He's like hopping around. He's training Spider-Man. He's doing different things.

I would say there's been a lot of really great writing. If you want to read like a really good series, go to the inverse.com. Eric Francisco has been writing about Shang Chi as a character. And I think actually what we can talk about is that in the comic books, Shang-chi is a, his origins are very, very thorny. He was created by Steve Englehart and Jim Starlin. And basically, he came a very, age during like the kung fu crazy you were alive with this you remember when like bruce lee

took over the world right then no nigger i wasn't alive you're alive that was in the fucking 70s yo bro it is it's like no like no like not that was in the 70s bro bruce lee was dead by the time i was born i was born in 1980 the kung fu stuff that you're talking about that's in the 70s no i wasn't alive fuck you i don't know from your hair a lot i wouldn't i wasn't i wasn't I was a little confused. Yeah, whatever, bro. No, I wasn't alive. Like, the kung fu movies and the whole thing was kind of getting to its end when I came around.

You know what I mean? So by the time I got to be able to watch movies, I was watching movies and started watching movies like 85, 86, 87. They weren't as much a big deal. Bruce Lee was still famous. But, like, he died in the 70s, man. Bikes your tongue. Shang Chi, Shanti was created actually before, like, Bruce Lee hit hit in the U.S. but essentially, like, this character was so racist.

His father in the comic books is a character named Fulmanchu. The less you know about him, the better. But very, very bad. Marvel has distance themselves. They technically don't even own the character. They bought the character because he was so popular, even though he was a racist character. And I think what I'm trying to get at right now is in the comic books is that

Shang Chi never really had a personality. He was just the martial arts guy. he was just a half-Chinese half-white character who would come in and like if Spider-Man needs to learn how to use kung fu Shang-chi's here and I think that what the what this movie had to contend with is they had to give Shang-chi a personality you know what I'm saying like I would even say if like

then like even in Black Panther comics like Tachala for the longest time did not have like a personality he didn't have this thing where it's like oh that's Tachala he's regal he's this and that that came And I think what the differences between Shang Chi the movie and Shang Chi the comics is that Simulhu has injected him with like a little bit of how do I put this? Comedy, Levity. He's a normal guy in extraordinary circumstances.

And I think they toned down how do I put this, the master assassin part, the master like fighter, to make him way more relatable. And I actually think that's what you needed to do. Because if he was like he was in the comic books, nobody would like this. Well, there you go. Look, that's your, I get it. I understand what you're talking about. They had to do the same thing with Tichala.

Like, they had to make, Chadduk Boseman had to turn Tchala into an actual character, not just like the black guy in the Avengers. And in this movie, Simul Liu had to be like, oh, like, how do I make a likable martial artist in the MCU? And not just like the Chinese guy that the Avengers call, when they need somebody to teach them how to fight, which I thought is like a brilliant thing. That's a very hard thing to do. And you've talked about it, Van,

the next phase of the MCU, the reason it's having so much trouble, like in Falcon and the Winter Soldier and all these things, is like they're having to make characters that were shitty in the comic books because they were created by old white men for so long into three-dimensional people. And that falls on the actors,

that falls on the writers, that falls on the directors. So a lot of times I think the reason, like, maybe some people are like, oh, you're attacking this with kid gloves. I'm like, no, like the level of difficulty of this type of movie of a Black Panther I'm talking to the Winter Soldier is very, very high. So like, shout out to see himulu

in his portrayal. Yeah, shout to see himulu with his portrayal. Okay. What is Wong doing? Why is Wong cooling out with the abomination between in-game Spider-Man No Way Home trailer. What is Wong up to? Where in the world is Wong? Is Wong leaving

a secret life? Is Wong some sort of Like, what is Wong doing? In this movie, you see Wong fight the abomination, but then after that, you see Wong have a conversation with the abomination, and then he leaves and goes somewhere else. Like, what's Wong's deal? Then Wong comes back in at the end of the movie to basically tell Shang-she, you know, there's a bigger purpose or a bigger meaning to the Ten Rings, basically.

They've set off a beacon or whatever, and we're not sure who's on the other side of it or who's calling out to do what. Who is Wong now? Is there more to Wong than what we think there is? Wong is a certified lover boy, okay? He got three families. You know, every single time he's poor and he's like, they're like, Daddy, Daddy, we haven't seen him in weeks.

He's like, aye, aye, chill, chill, chill. That's why he's fighting in the rain. He's trying to support three kids. What can he be training an abomination for? What can he possibly? How does Wong meet abomination? That made no sense to me. It was just like.

I mean, but it has to make sense, right? No, I'm just saying I get story-wise it will make sense. when Obamination showed up, I'm like, all right, cool. How the fuck, like, is this just because we got a She Hulk Disney Plus movie coming or Disney Plus series? I mean, but you know that they know. So here's the thing.

You know that they know what they want to do. So. I already know. And people are going to get mad at me. People are going to yell at me. Jomi's going to be fucking yell at me. I'm not going to yell at you. All right.

I'm thinking when they transport away, they transport into what looks like a holding cell, or at least some high tech place. It looks very shield. to ask. I think this might have a connection to the contessa. I'm not going to say the blankety blank you can redact that. The thunderbolts, Steve, you can redact that if you want. Okay. I'm just saying like it seems like Wong is trying to get some extra cash. We got the abomination now. We got fucking Black Widow, the new Black Widow, Yelena. What else can it be? U.S. agent. What else can it be,

guys? But why is it interesting? Why is Wong involved in the Thunderbolts though? He needs extra money. Dr. Strange is a cheapskate. He doesn't believe in pain. Wong didn't have enough. God damn, man. Wong didn't have enough to buy a sandwich. Wong wouldn't say no to a tuna melt. Stephen Strange still got a lot of bread, man. Tunnel's a trash, though.

Tune melts are trash. I like a tuna melt. You like tuna melts? Yeah, tune melts's cool. Jolmy, what are you going to say? Well, it's an interesting thing about abomination because early in the MCU there was one of the MCU one shots was called a funny thing happened on the way to Thor's Hammer.

And Agent Colson is supposed to, like, you know, he's going to, you know, to New Mexico. And it's about recruiting, like, there's a part of it that talks about Nick Fury, recuting Blonsky for the Avengers instead of the Hulk. And so now to see him fought with Wong going back to a cell, maybe, you know, he has reformed. Maybe, you know, he's not, you know, the guy who tried to kill the Hulk. Just a thunderbolts, show me. That was a long conversation. That was a long thing just to say the Thunderbolts.

I'm saying there's credence to your argument, Charles. Thank you. All right. That's all I wanted. Jomi, we're back. We're back, we're back on the podcast. We haven't seen Val and,

you know, in mail talk, and we don't know what one fits in. You got to ring somewhere else. You went to the Clippers and now you're back with the Lakers. It's fine, man. Wow. That's great.

You came back home, Jomey. Yeah, man. Like, Jomi, you came back home. Like, Malininin was only playing. was only playing you like 15 minutes a game and you was like, nah, I got to go back and get my playoff shine on and you came through in the

clutch yet again. Boy, what a great. I really don't have any idea. Obviously, there looks like there's going to be a Thunderbolts team or some team that Val is putting together that's going to come together at some point. But I really don't know about the Wong thing. Did he take a die? Did the Abomination take a dive?

Because when like Wong opens up the portal, Obamination punches himself. I'm like, Obamination has been punched by the Hulk. He like, why would one punch take him out? And then Wong actually tells him that I told you you were punching too hard. When they, when they get to, then Wong says, I told you you you're punching too hard. So whatever was going on in that fight between Wong and Abomination,

they had talked about it before. So who knows? And it's one of the more interesting parts of the movie. And I wonder, it's a part that makes me wonder, when are we going to get an explanation about that? And what movie are we going to get an explanation about that? I can't see a film coming up or a TV show coming up that, maybe we'll learn a little bit more about it since we know that Wong is in Spider-Man no way home.

Wong goes on vacation in that movie. You see him pack his bags and go. Right. So I guess that must be, I guess that must be where it is. Right. So TD just popped in and said, didn't Wong essentially turn Abominations punch on himself. He did turn his punch onto himself. No, I know that happened. I was just saying like, Obamination's been punched by the Hulk. Like, it's like, One punch, even if it's hard, would that take him out? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe when you're punching, you know, when you're punching, if you punch yourself, maybe it's unexpected.

I don't know. I don't know how that works. I never punched myself before. I'm not fucking Tyler Darden. Would you watch a Wong Disney Plus show? Well, Wong just goes around and pops up at other people's shows and stuff like that and helps out. You just give it anybody.

Like, everybody wants me to be excited about like the War Machine movie. I'm like, I mean, like, or the War Machine series. I'm like, I don't want to watch War Machine, bro. Shout out a personal friend of mine, Don Cito. So go ahead and keep talking about that. Go ahead. I love John Cito. I just don't want to watch it.

Right. Shout out to, Don. Don, I'm going to watch your shit. Don, I'm getting paid. I got to watch it. Don, I'm going to watch your shit. I'm excited about it. Don't worry about Chon.

All right, you already got half of Hollywood coming from my next. What's going to do that, right? Let's not do that shit. Let's get to the awards here. Best Fight Scene. We got five choices. We got Chongshe's parents when they hook up. Shang Shi versus

Raise your fists Team Shang Shi versus the 10 rings on the skyscraper scaffolding Shang Shi versus the death dealer in Macau

Shang Shi becomes Lord of the Rings in their father versus son battle Charles what would be your choice for best fight

sequels in this movie bus scene easily bus scene is like it was it was everything I wanted

of a fight scene it's exciting and it's unexpected there's character moments like here's the thing a good fight

teaches you something about the character Shang Chi does not get upset until Katie gets hurt. That is such a character thing. He doesn't want to be a fighter. He doesn't want to kill. We didn't go over that, but he's not a natural born killer.

He's not. He has a heart. So when Katie gets hit, that's what brings it out of him. I think that's a good fight always has an undercurrent of character. I got to go with the bus. Yeah, Shangxi, that's actually very true. You know, he had trained for all those years and he refused to do some things. and some of the things that he actually did do

were out of character for him. So shout out to Jackie Chan's fight choreographed team, his stunt team, and the late Brad Allen that made that bus scene happen. So, you know, rest in peace,

Brad Allen. And also, that was an amazing fight. I'm not going with it, though. The fight that I'm going with is on the skyscraper. I thought it was a better set piece. I thought the stakes were a little higher.

And I just thought overall, I was dazzled by it. So I would say, skyscrapers are saying. I will say when he's running to catch the, dude that trained him, tackles him, blah, blah, bab, bab, bat.

Catches the, like, the Koon Eye, it almost kills him. I'm like, dog. Like, this is what we need. Actually, that was the moment in the movie. I'm like, I'm going to be real. We need five more scenes like that. Very true.

All right. Best comedic moment, aka the Trevor Slattery Award. Okay. Are we going to do the Busboy vlogger? Are we going to do Trevor's reveal scene, which was very funny? Sean Shee and Aquafina's dinner stories

of the Tile Lo Battle, which was very good as well. well, when Trevor and Morris played dead, or Trevor's Planet of the Apes story. It's the Planet of the Apes. Like, it's Planet of the Apes. We don't got to belabor the point. We're not going to troll you. You know what I'm

saying? The Planet Ape story is just amazing. Amazing. But even a little shot of Trevor planning kids to play soccer. Everything Trevor did in this movie was perfect. Everything that Ben Kingsley did in this movie was perfect. Best Easter egg, Shang-she's room posters, which they have outcasts,

have Kung Fu Hustle, the Warriors, Like Miles Morales, Sean Shih's, superhero fits, includes Jordans. He's got the Jordan Axis. Shout out to Mallory Rubin there. Wait,

I'll say, those shoes are fucking trash, bro. You don't like them? Those Jordan accesses are trash. He's gonna get in any retros?

He couldn't get a Jordan 1? Jordan 3, Black Smith? Like, fuck out of you. You got the Jordan accesses right there. And Macau appears that a black widow is fighting an extremist soldier. I noticed that in the movie.

I said, look, there's the extremist right there. or the busboy vlogger is the same character in Spider-Man Homecoming that was asking Peter to flip. He moved from Queens to the Bay or is he now the watcher for the street level? He's the vlogger, but he's the watcher.

So which Easter egg would you say that you enjoyed the most? It can't be Sean Chees' room posters because how old Joe Me, the explainer? How old is he supposed to be in this movie? He's supposed to be 24, 25, but it's weird. What 24 or 25 year old got an outcast stanconia poster in their fucking room? Like, what time is this?

A dope one? No, you mean? You listen to like little oozy vert or little baby. Get the fuck out of here. No, that's dumb. It's dumb as hell. Jesus Christ. Oof.

Well, I... Actually, you know, it's not on here. I like the little one. These are the little stuff I love about the MCU. When we're in the beginning of the movie where, um, where Sean is walking to where Sean is walking to Katie's house, we see posters, like post-Blip posters. There's ones for, like, therapists.

Yeah, post-blip anxiety. Yeah, I did like that. I did see that. I was just like, that's so smart. Like, it's not even like a big one, but it shows you, like, how big this world is, and it says so much,

was so little, and I saw it on the second screening. I got to go with that one. Yeah, also apologize to Outcast, but it's like, whatever. I would say my favorite is probably what I saw the extremist soldier pop up. It just remembers that that stuff is still around.

Because that's what I reacted to in the theater. I'm like, oh, look, it has extremists. And then the more we can forget about extremists, the better is my opinion. What's the coolest looking creature in Tala? Is it the Guardian Lions, Morris, the Dragon Horse, or the Nine-Tale Fox? The Nine-Tale Fox was delightful. The Nine-Tale Fox was delightful. I really enjoyed the Ninthel Fox.

I'm going to go with the Dragon Horse. The dragon horse was one of the weirdest fucking things I've ever seen before. Like it all on the screen in my entire life. I was, I had wonder. It was wonderment. I called that horse wonderment is its name now. Because I was just full of wonder. The goddamn horse with a face.

It looks like a dragon. I would ride him. I would get a saddle for him. Like I got a rope right here. I would ride that horse. Charles, what do you think? What's your answer? Coolest looking, a mystical creature, mythical creature in the mythical village of Tao Lowe.

The coolest looking mystical creature in Tao Lowe. The coolest looking mystical creature in Tallow is the friends we made along the way, because I'm trying to be positive about this one award. All right, movies MVP, obviously. Would you say it's Shang Shi, Wenwu, Katie, Trevor? Oh, I know who, I know who this already is. It's Wenwu. It's Wenwu. Oh, you're not going with Shang Shi as a movie's MVP.

I mean, I love Shang Shi. I love Simu, but like, yo, like, when will, like, talk. that character, he was acting circles around everybody. Like, he's a legend, bro. Like, to come into the MCU and, like, inject that much emotion that much, like, he was just like, y'all, y'all kids, like, I know, like, it's cute. But this is what a legend looks like. Interesting.

Wow. I will go with Shang Shi as the really unbridled MVP of this movie, the unquestioned MVP of this movie, is Shangxi to me. But interesting, I loved Wen Wu. I loved when. I would do a whole win-woo type of movie. I would do the whole win-woo type of movie. When-W would be great.

So, looking ahead. Now, we had one in the mid-credit scene. What are your theories on how the Ten Rings organization is going to play itself out? Because we know it still exists. We know that Sean Schuster is now ahead of it. Where are we going with all of this stuff? Like, where are we going with? We saw Bruce Banner.

He's arm still in the sling. We saw Captain Marvel. She had to leave again. Where is she going? what's pulling Captain Marvel away? What's going on to where Captain Marvel had to go do something? That must be some cosmic type of schism that's going on. What's going on to where Captain Marvel has to leave?

Captain Marvel always leave it. Every movie she's in, she shows up as a hologram. She's like, all right, I got to go. And I'm like, damn. Well, she says that looks. I mean, look, she says there's a lot of planets out there. Now all of those planets have the Avengers. Maybe it's a secret invasion?

Who could be a secret invasion? Who knows? Who knows? Also, I'm saying right now, we got a lot of, we got a lot on the board. We got the Black Widows out there. We got the Contessa out there. Okay. Now we got the 10 rings.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of different armies that are forming. And we still got the Wakandans. Like, it's a lot. And we're going to get Atlantis. Shit. Yeah, everything's coming. And all of these factions are going to be up against each other. I think this movie was just dipping its toe into that broad sort of scale of, that broad sort of pond.

should I say of what of what's going to happen and what all of these factions these factions represent different parts of the world here as well is there going to be some kind of massive worldwide faction thing

against each other are the Thunderbolts going to have to come in and deal with something that's international where 10 rings and Wakanda and Atlantis are all up against it

because we know that Wakanda and Atlantis are probably going to get busy yep you know so like what's going to be happening on earth is all this stuff

is happening around in space because there's a lot going on so much we got to go to our versus though. We got to go to the versus rankings. So we're going to versus rankings. We're going to, we're going to play a little game here. Um, little versus game of our own. So to get a better sense of this movie's MCU ranking, we have listed five MCU movies, okay, with interesting parallels to Shang Shi for us to quickly debate what the

better movie is. All right. Producer six, Steve, help us out here. Go ahead and get us into this land, okay? Get us into this versus land. We're going to put these movies up and we're going to play a quick game of is it better? Is it better than this? I was going to get rough. Round one, MCU origin movies that feature mystic realms, Shang-chi or Thor, the first one. Which one do you like better?

Easy, it got to be Thor. Like, here's the thing. Thor, you know, it's just, we just saw a Loki Disney Plus show. That's how, like, amazing Thor was in terms of, like, world building. And I think Shang-Chi will get there. Like, don't, like, don't get a twisted. I think Shang-Chi will get there. But, like, Thor is iconic.

Like, what Tom Hilton did in that, what, Chris, like, it's Thor. Am I, Jomey. I'm rocking with you, Charles. I got to admit, I'm rocking with you. I think Thor is the better film. I mean, again, like, I enjoy Shang-Chi, but Thor had a little, you know, some extra, you know, seeing it, you know, 2011 and then no one like what was coming next. It's not perfect, you know, but on a viewing in 2021.

But it's still, like, I got to. to rock with the home like Thor was is he's my guy. Every like the bleached eyebrows is a little much but I'm still I'm still rocking with it. I'm still rocking with Thor. Nah, the Shangxi's better than Thor. You're wild. Wow. Wow.

Sean she's better than Thor man. Like Sean she's, you've only seen this movie twice and you're ready to say. Nah, bro. Nah, Sean she's, the original Thor, shang she's better than original Thor guys. That's the original Thor is pretty good. The original Thor is okay. Shangxi is better than original Thor. It just is.

All right. Round two. Will the real Mandarin please stand up? Shang Chi versus Iron Man 3. All right, it's Shang Chi. I don't even know why this is like. Well, I personally have a soft spot for Iron Man 3. I think Iron Man 3 is a little, you know, underrated, you know, and a little, you know, smirched.

I would agree. I think Iron Man 3 is really good. Yeah. It's not, Shang Chi is a way better movie than Iron Man 3. Like, guys, let's not troll. Like, I'm the guy with the hot takes. Let's not do this. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, we don't what we have to do. we have to have a conversation about Iron Man 3. Iron Man 3 is good. It's not good. It's not good. Let's not say it's good. Iron Man 3 is good.

I have my problems with it, but I think I think it's good. There are parts of Iron Man 3 that are unwatchable. Like what? What? What? All the extremist shit? I mean, that's flimsy, but it's not bad. It's not bad.

It's not bad movie. Guys, come on. Like, let's not rewrite history. When Iron Man 3 came out, people were pissed. No. Not me. I liked it. I loved it.

I liked it. I'm going to go. I'm going to be honest with you. There's no way Sean Chi is a worst movie than Iron Man 3. There's no possible way. I'm not going to lie. I'm going to go with Iron Man 3. Oh.

I think I think it's close, but I'm going to go with Iron Man 3. No. I think they're right next to each other. I think they're right to each other. It's, it's, I'm rocking with, I'm going to say Sean Chi, but I love Iron Man 3. All right. round three. MCU live action debuts based in San Francisco.

Shang Chi versus Ant Man. Sean She's better than Ant Man. No, Ant Man's clear. Amman's clear. In the clear. Amman's clear. Clear.

And Man's clear. I like Shangxi better than Edman. Really? Ant Man's so good. Ant Man's so, like I will say, just in terms of humor, Ant Man's one of the funniest movies in the moment.

Yes, exactly. One of the top five funniest Marvel movies. Come on, man. Yeah. Come on. I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Shang Shi. Or am I really am.

I am. Damn, I ain't fine. Wrong side of history. Round four. Culturally rich, diverse MCU movies with artists curated original soundtracks

Shang Chi versus Black Panther. You put this on the on the show with two black guys. Like, I'm just like, this is TV. I can't do this. I'm going to be set up,

bro. You can't do this to me. That's a joke, bro. We shouldn't have done this one. That's a shit. I'm going, I'm going to, I'm going with Black Panther. Black Panther. I'm going Black Panther too.

All right. It's white pan, like, I love Shang Chi. All right. Round five, MCU origin movies with multiple flashback scenes, Shang Chi and Captain Marvel. Shong Chi is clearly better than Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel is amongst the worst MCU movies. Damn, they're about to get you out of here. Slow down.

Slow down. Okay. Um, it is Shang Chi. Yeah, it's it's clearly Sean Chi. Yeah,

let's not be, this is the celebration thing. I'm not being, what is mean? That was pretty mean. I enjoy Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel's okay, but it's among,

in terms of the MCUs and the origin, it's among the worst MCU movies that they're all right. Captain. Agree to disagree, man. Great disagree. All right.

That's a wrap for us. We gave you guys a lot of show today, man, this movie, Shang-she and the Legends of the Ten Rings. Go out there and see it. And The Legend of the Ten Rings, go out there and see it for a second time, if you haven't already. Make sure to support the film. All right, next Tuesday, join Mao for her deep dive into Shang-shi. She's going to do a lot more talking about this stuff. And after this, we'll also have a sense of how the movie did in this first weekend. It is tracking to have an amazing immense

weekend. And if it does, that in and of itself, from a business standpoint, will have a great big effect on some of the stuff that happens in the MCU going forward. because if this movie is successfully able to beat some of the hesitancy of going out to the films because of the pandemic, we might see some strategies change in the upcoming films. Can I just say something real quick if the movie does do well? I really hope that Hollywood learns the right lessons. Like in terms of just like, dog, do not give us an Asian-led film every once in a while. Like, it's been proven multiple times like, yo, let's do this.

Like, let's seem to Lou be a star. Like, if they don't get, if like, I don't know, if he doesn't get. a big role after this, I'm going to have to run up on Hollywood. You put him in your next movie, Dan, because my man is a star. We need more Asian-led films. I want to see it happen. Okay. I'm into it.

I'm into it. You know I'm down with it. Oh, by the way, update. The movie is on track to break Labor Day Records, Labor Day Record Records with $60 million on the debut. That would be really impressive for Sean Shee. Okay. Ringiverse.

At Ringervverse is on Facebook, IG, and Twitter. join us and send us questions, ideas, and thoughts. Submit your questions and voice memos to the ringerverse at gmail.com. That's T-H-E-R-I-N-G-E-R-V-E-R-S-E-R-S-E-R-S-E-R-E-R-S-E-E-R-E-R-L-S. For the first-ever-My-N-N-E-R-E-R-L-S, and what you have to ask the Midnight Boys.

State your name and where you're from. Tell us your favorite midnight boys moment. Ask us your questions. Keep it to 40 seconds or less or less, and then we're going to react to those next week on Wednesday. Our producer is Steve Alderman. Jomi Benedict Adiron is does our

socials. And additional production we have from Arjuna Ramgapal. And of course, producer TD. We love Jomey. Charles, take us out. Congrats to Malin Jomi. Y'all know what he'd do. I'm begging. I'm begging. I'm begging.

Please answer my DMs. Simuloo. Lou. I love that, man. All right, we out. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it.

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