The Ringer-Verse - ‘Shazam! Fury of the Gods’ Reactions | Mint Edition

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Jomi and Steve are back and ready to jump back into the Snyder-verse and take a look at the ‘Shazam’ sequel. Everything from the film’s egregious product placement, confusing villain motives, to the not so shocking Wonder Woman cameo is in today’s discussion. Hosts: Jomi Adeniran and Steve Ahlman Producer: Jonathan Kermah Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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about the four men who broke the color barrier in football. I'm your host, Chelsea Stark Jones. BlackBald is dropping soon on the Ringer NFL feed. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

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This is the Ringers' nexus podcast feed for all things, phantom. You know who it is. Welcome back to Mint Edition. It's the once-in-a-while podcast about all of the latest fandom that you just can't live without. I'm Stephen Allman, senior producer at The Ringer, and joining me, as always, is my co-host, Ringer's social coordinator, Lorna of the Means, explainer of the Midnight Boys. he's about to taste the rainbow, I guess. It's Joe Miederon.

What's going on, Steve? Just a quick off the top. Stone Longer coordinator, my boy. It's a producer. Oh, yes. Yeah, you gotta, hey, you gotta put in that promotion, my boy. Don't let that slide now. I'm not even running it back.

I'm letting you get your own intro in. That's great. Respect your boy. Mm-hmm. Congrats, buddy. Well deserved. We grind and you feel me. Hey, listen. It's nothing.

It's nothing. It means absolutely nothing without my family. Family guys. That's supposed to come out. It said family. That was the keyword. Well, it's the keyword now so that we can talk about our fun little programming reminders before we get started on our fun pod today.

This Wednesday, you can catch us with the rest of the Midnight Boys, Van and Charles, talking about the Mandalorian every single Wednesday for the rest of this season. And on Fridays you can catch Joe and Mal on the House of Our. doing their deep dives and the latest episodes of the Mandalorian as well. But on today's show, we're going to do a little bit of product placement of our own and dive into Shazam Fury of the Gods. But before we go and do that, our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning for both the Shazam films, and let's just say most of the Snyderverse in general, just to be safe.

Are you ready, Jomey? What happened to no free ads? I mean, certainly Skittles paid up. a fortune for this. Don't get twisted. An absolute bag. It'll cost you a bag and a half for what you got here. All right, let's get into it, Jomey.

That's some bolts from the Fury of the Gods. Shazam, directed by David F. Sandberg and written by Henry Gaden and Chris Morgan starring Zachary Levi, Rachel Ziegler, Helen Mirren, Lucy Lou, and many, many others. taking place two years after the first film, Captain Marvel's family. No, the other one, is tasked with defeating an ancient threat full of godly family beef, ancient magic, and the occasional unicorn sitting at a 53% on rotten tomatoes. Not looking good, brov, and disappointingly having about a 30 million domestic opening as of right now.

Jomi, my first question to you, is it shazover for our family? well look there's a lot of game left you know you never really know how much game left you never really know with the DC universe you know

we'll get into like some of the stuff that happens posts of the movie but you could never say never when the DC universe is in flux like that you really can't so not looking great for its opening weekend

kind of brought into a bit of controversy given certain stars personal politics and feelings, but we're putting that aside for right now. Not to say that that's going to spoil everything for us. And we're going to talk a little bit about the first Shazam movie. Obviously, this is the sequel,

but I want to know what you thought about this first film going into its sequel, because I remember looking on the first Chazam movie quite fondly, and actually it still kind of holds up as one of my favorite DC movies to date. I enjoyed it because it was fun and had, just an enormous amount of heart. You know, there was, there's the moments with Freddie and Billy and their relationship. And then just the, like I mean, said the beginning, family, man. Like, the movie screams, you know, family.

And that was something that we hadn't seen from the D.C. We hadn't really seen like a heart like that. And so it was very refreshing to see the first time around. And yeah, the first Shazam movie is. absolutely one of the best DC movies to come out in recent history. It's a real, real treat because we were kind of deep in the Snyderverse at that time with, I think this was pre the Snyder cut coming out, and everything was kind of just too gritty for me. I really like my own personal feelings about the Snyder versus side.

It definitely wasn't fitting something that I would have wanted. And then Shazam comes along, and it's a breath of fresh air to me. because it's exactly what not only a kid-oriented superhero film could be and should be, in my opinion. It's also kind of like nailing the character of Billy Batson and what Captain Marvel and Shazam could be, should be that I would love to see on screen. Basically, like, big, but in the superhero genre. knowing that there's a legion of kids that become heroes for the right reasons and doing the right things for the right reasons. That's a very important distinction. Not to like, you know, slander our guy Peter Parker here, but, you know, he was in the films, he was ultimately underwritten by a billionaire.

And the character kind of like does this for personal reasons kind of like, you know. It's not true at all. Not kind of. Not kind of. Occasionally, I'm talking about Peter from the comics. Like, he'll get it caught up into some bullshit about being Spider-Man. Like, it gets messy over there. But being a 12-year-old kid from Philadelphia and really having some of the purest intentions

in heart is kind of what makes him really the chosen one from this wizard and makes him the hero of the day. I really, really liked the first Shazam. So bringing us to the sequel, what do you think was the thing that? this movie needed to get right in order to be successful in your opinion. And then to start our conversation, was Shazam 2 successful to you? Shazam 2 was not successful to me because what I wanted them to get right was the heart. And they did not succeed in that arena.

There's a scene where Billy is talking to his older sister. and they're sitting in the cave of eternity. She's like, hey, look, I know you're scared that when you age out, we won't be there for you, that you'll go. And it's something you need to figure out. And I thought, okay, here we go. Here's the, that's the arc. That's the emotional gravitas. That's what's going to propel us through the film.

And they literally don't bring it up. until the end where he's having the conversation with the mom, which, by the way, he's also something that just blow over. Right. He doesn't call her mom the beginning. So like, oh, bye, Rosa. And we're like, oh, okay, that's going to be a thing, the mom thing. And then they don't interact for the rest of the film until the end,

when the world is ending. And then he calls her mom. And we're supposed to be like, man, that really was really fulfilling. It's like, no, man. I could see the seas they were planting, but ultimately it didn't come to fruition and it just felt empty watching the film. I agree with you here. While I wouldn't say that the movie is entirely successful to me as a whole, there are parts that I very much liked. But I agree with you that the most important thing that came out of the first one that wasn't really echoed in this one is the idea of

Billy connecting with and keeping a family, not only with his adopted and fostered brothers and sisters, but also with his foster parents. You can see that he accepts his family come the end of the first one. You can see that he's, like, kind of grown into his role. And throughout this movie, he kind of just acts a little petulantly because he thinks he's about to lose it. Like, the main, like, emotional crux that Billy has in this

is that he's about to turn 18 and he's more or less told that he's going to be effectively out on the street and done because, you know, he will age out of the foster program. They will not get money. His parents will not get money to support him and he'll basically be a burden and have to leave. I feel like that's a very like large emotional leap to take even if you are a kid and even if you are in a different circumstance like that. I obviously can't act like I would know how you would act in a circumstance like that but we can't argue that Billy doesn't have a loving

family and knows that he is well taken care of. There's this great quote that like I've loved from one of my favorite children books ever. It's from the Little Prince and it's about it basically it's about a boy and a flower who falls in love the flower and the flower says to the little boy I love you

and it's my fault if you haven't known that all this while if Billy thinks that after all of this he's just going to be out on the street and alone I don't know if anybody but Billy is responsible for not knowing that because

you can't look at this family and not think oh yeah we're just going to abandon you Billy like we don't love you clearly Is it was, am I, am I off here, Jome? No, it just, like, clear, like, you know, I guess the thing with he's, he's, he's, he's had emotional, like, he's been scarred, right? Like, he has deep emotional trauma about being in the foster system of being on left. So even though he's found this good thing, at the end of the day, he's still not 100% sure, like, oh, yeah, they'll, you know, keep me or I'll be, you know, they won't throw me out on the streets. he's just been like worn down by like remember he mentioned it like his dad left him his mom

left he's been in and out of homes his entire life you know and you know it's only been two years since he found his family which is you know which is great but at the end of the day he still has that shred of doubt that it might not all come together which can make sense i think yeah and it can make sense i i just think the movie could have done a little bit better it could have actually illustrating that because it starts with Billy after our you know again oddly violent and shocking opening with

the sisters of Atlas. Oh my God. We'll get to that in a minute. But we are introduced to Billy basically like trying to attempt to go to therapy with a pediatrician who basically has the office of a therapist basically

trying to reconcile with his issues of abandonment which I think could be great. I wish that we kind of saw Billy doing a bit more of that work because he's like on his way to making that realization for himself.

I would have loved to see him maybe attempt to go to therapy a couple more times in between then. You just watch Shazam Therapy the movie. Oh, seeing, well, first of all, seeing a superhero in therapy is inherently funny to me, but seeing a kid in the body of a superhero

going to therapy can actually sound pretty like cathartic and interesting because the therapist doesn't know the actual identity of the superhero, but they still need to get some shit off, which is good. I just, I think that we could have used a little bit more of that. I don't know about therapy. I mean, maybe not therapy, but like he's, yeah,

made more emotional conversations with the people around him. Right. You know, because it starts off with like, you know, one or two of those. And then it's just movie. And then we're all good at the end, which, you know, doesn't really. really does really make any sense. He could have stood to have a couple of more insightful conversation with his family other than just being like afraid and isolated.

And I think that that's a little bit of the biggest problem for me that I would want to address first and foremost. And I think that's with our lead, Zachary Levi. I loved Zachary Levi in the first Shazam because I think he perfectly encapsulated in tandem with his child version, the emotions and attitude that he had inhabiting this superhero's body and like trying to figure out what it all meant.

And I think this one, we kind of just see Zachary Levi acting a bit more petulant and plucky and like a tad. There's that word again. There's our favorite word. kind of just acting a bit more, you know, absurd and over the top, even in contrast to the rest of his superhero family,

to just kind of seem like he's a bit more childish for no real reason. And it doesn't like, because whenever Billy changes back to his kid form, it feels like there's a different person on screen rather than this is just Big Billy. Does this make sense? Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. And like the first movie, it was a little more cohesive. in terms of, you know, we could see the through line between Billy,

whether he was, you know, not Shazam or was Shazam. And this one, there's a little bit of a dichotomy between the two. I'm pointing to this and I'm like, that's Zachary Levi, just being goof, rather than this part.

But to be even, I mean, there wasn't a ton of Billy in this movie, though. There really wasn't. There really wasn't. And I kind of wish that there were? I wish there's a little more Billy, because it's part of the,

The fun of the first one was Billy and Freddie, like their little adventures, you know, like, sure, we can't see them, like, you know, redoing the characters again in terms of, like, remake, like, the part of the fun of the first one was them, finding out who Shazam was his powers and whatnot. You see, we can't just rehash that. But at the same time, their relationship was kind of, I don't want to say push to the side because they did have moments, but it wasn't, you know, as central as, you know, it wasn't the first movie. So I kind of did miss that relationship a lot. Well, they're mainly isolated for most of this movie. Like there's an A and B plot given with Billy and Freddie, and then occasionally they intersect. Let's go to Freddy's side of this, where he is now, like, empowered by his superhero form and more or less wants to keep doing that because that's where he feels the most powerful. That's the only thing that feels special about him.

And that's a very good, you know, through line to have. I wish that we could have seen a bit more of Freddie's, like, internal struggle because there's not enough meat on the bones to when we finally get to our main conflict and our, you know, potential love interest and the guest appearance of Rachel Ziegler. there's just enough awkwardness here to make it sort of work but I really think that

there could have been a couple of bit more refined pacing parts to this Joe me when we were introduced to Rachel Ziegler and like the overall plight of Freddie what did you think about all of this

so let me let me go macro and then micro Sure. On E real quick. Big, big picture, I got it. Like, I see what's happening. You know, this is standard. You know what I mean?

As soon as she starts talking about her sister who got B-fouts, like, uh-oh, here we go. She's an op, you know what I mean? Freddie, you walk her right into a trap, you know? Wasn't supposed to be like this. Yeah, like, come on, man, you know? But, you know, these are, you know, standard things in films that, like, you know, happen.

So I wasn't too bogged down by, like, a trope, right? Like, you know, it is what it is. micro this is and not really minor but something that i i didn't understand in the beginning so when the when they first meet right she's like hey where's uh class and freddy you know talks to these bullies and remember he's got like a you know a walking cane he's got a limp you know and the kids kick him down and break his cane and i'm mean to him and i'm like that's Insane. Didn't these chumps learn

That would never fly. Not even that. Not even that. It's like, bro, you just beat up a dude Who needs a cane and walk. What's wrong with you? Beat up a disabled kid.

Like, You can't do that. You can't do that. And the kids are walking in the hallway. Nobody's got their phone out. Nobody's putting this on IG. Nobody's putting this on TikTok like, you know what I'm saying?

Listen, I'm not going to act like I would know the first thing about being a teacher in a in a bully situation because I certainly wouldn't act like that teacher but to have it be more or less hunky door and be like all right fellas let's settle down

and let's take them out of the trash can I got detention for less much less much less that's those are charges that's prison yeah like I was watching

I was like yo you don't let that slide those kids parents got to own something like there's no way that they can't just be getting away with this really minor, but like in that whole Rachel and, or sorry,

whole Anne Freddie interaction, I was just like, there's no way that those kids just like walked off real sweet like that. Like that doesn't make any sense. But other than that, their whole relationship thing was like very bog standard cinema stuff.

Joe, if you could turn into a superhero and you had bullies do that to you, would you have just been like, okay, guys. You got to keep up the illusion, man. That's the thing. You got to stay sharp.

You can't, you know, if somebody bully Bruce Wayne, I'm saying, like, I know it'd be hard to bully Bruce Wayne, but if somebody, like, made front of Bruce Wayne's hair online, and then you were at the crib and then Batman swung through your window was like, how dare you make front of Bruce Way's airline? This is messed up. Don't do that. Oh, oh, you're making the mistake of, you're making the mistake of saying the reason why you're beating them up.

You just go unannounced. Oh, well, I mean, okay. Bruce Wayne, he's doing the research. You're like, wow, I saw you just downloaded a movie illegally online. There you go. Slings to your door. Don't download movies online. Right.

Would you steal a car? Would you steal a purse? Would you download a, you know, a water bottle? No. And they kicks you, breaks your spine and then leaves. That'd be, that'd be crazy. You know, so now you got to keep it separate. Green bottles go to a different recycling bin.

Yeah. Yeah, you got to let it slide. Okay. That's fine. Well, what I'm not going to let slide. is our main bad villains here. Because I'd like to think that this was, Jomey, did any of this make sense?

Did any of the motivations of our villains make sense here? It's a lot of confusing. It's a lot of confusing. It's a lot of confusing. It's a lot of confusing. So you've got Hesperia, right? You've got Athena, okay, who we're like, at the end, we're like,

okay, these are our good, our good heroes. Here's where we rock with. And then you've got Calypso, who is the worst of the worst, wants to see everybody die and perish, except for the fact she's not the, like,

the main bad guy for most of it. It's Hespera. Right. It's confusing. Helen Mirren spends, like, the first two-thirds of the movie, like, A, Shazam, saying what you want, my boy.

She's monologing. She's got it all. The whole evil thing. She's being mean to Calypso, right? She's like not being nice to Athena. And you're sitting there like, okay, well, obviously, you know, Helamere, she's a real ops. And then they kind of like twist it when they get to see the life. And Halamara was like, hey, cool, man, we can plant that thing right here.

Calypso's like, no, we got to plant it on Earth from. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? What happened to the whole, you know, the power? and ah, all that, you know, aggression that you had. All of a sudden, just like, hey, man, I'm chilling now, bro. You know, we got to see the life. Let's call it. Like, what happened was this?

I can kind of see because, because Helamarin, uh, Hesperia, it's kind of a dick to Calypso, right? Right. Kind of mean, you know, the first thing when they get the staff, she smacks her hand, right? He's like, uh-uh. I get the top half. So in my head, I'm thinking, oh, Calypso's going to switch up because Aspera is mean.

Right. And they're going to drive a waste between them and clubs with them like, hey, you know what? You're the worst. I don't like you. You know, but like that did happen. But in the opposite way. It's a heel turn within their own motivation. Like they, like their motivations aligned and then immediately crossed on the opposite

sides of each other. It's so weird. And what's weird about it is if Aspera just wanted to see it a life, to be able to plan. the thing to plant it in their own realm. You'd be like, all you got to do is be like, hey, listen, I need to see it in a life. You know, I'm trying to, you know, you guys broke the seal. It's kudo. Look, you know, you give us a seat of life.

Let's make a deal. Okay. You want to keep your powers. Don't want us to come back. We just play the seed in our place and keep it pushing. Say no more. Billy, you're like, hell yeah, man. What's up?

Where to see that? Just get rid of the dome. That's all it is. Wait. Don't even need a dome. Just talk to me. Tell me what you need. Because apparently

that's all she wanted. Right. And you didn't have to do any of that carnage, any of that nonsense. We could have let it slide. Didn't need to unleash all these hell beasts. We didn't need any of that.

Didn't need any of that. All you have to do is give her to say to life. We could have worked something out. But now there's a dome. Now there's enemies attacking. For why? For why, Steve? They could have briefed it a little bit better.

They could have had a deck. They could have had a bit more of a plan. Brief it without. everybody. That's another thing. So again, I was kind of fascinated by Rachel Ziegler's power set as well. Because she basically has like Dr. Strange

movement of buildings powers. She got mirror dimension powers, bro. Which is insane because it's actually as if she's moving the whole city, I think. And not like, this isn't an illusion. She'll just teleport herself by moving a whole city.

Yeah. I don't, it doesn't make any sense. The power of Axis. Power of Chaos. Chaos. The power of axis. And then Helen Mirren had some cool power.

I honestly can't remember if I'm being completely honest. She punch good. She makes a big catamari ball of metal things that she'll eventually get criss-crossed. You know, like

it was I couldn't believe they got Helen Mirren for this, man. I easily believe that they got Helen Maren for this. If they can get it for the fast movies, come on. But the fast movies, you know, I'm not going to say this from Gravitize, right? Like, let me not lie. Okay.

But, you know, look, she's done hits, like real big movies, like, short. Like National Treasure Book of Secrets. There you go. You know what I mean? The Queen. So how could she read two? Okay. So for her to be in this one, look, we all need to check.

How dare she step down from Red 2 to this? Yeah, you know, we all need a bag. You know, let me not hate. You know, she's getting her money. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm all for a bag. You feel me? But I was watching a movie.

I was like, man, Helen Mary, they didn't call you back for Fast 10? Well, honestly, given her a strange absence throughout the last half of this movie, I feel like she probably was filming some stuff in Fast 10 during this. That's what happened. That's what happened.

That's why they had to reshoot the movie. That's why they had to reshoot in the end. It was looking a little weird because they was like, ah, dang, VIN calls. When VIN calls, I answer. And she had to go. I understand. When the family comes calling,

got a got a roll. I understand. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their

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chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime Let's talk about Jiam and Hansu Honestly, I think he was my favorite part of the first movie and really

because he's so serious and so funny and he's wearing such a terrible wig and a terrible fake beard that it embraces the absolute hilarity of kind of how absurd the whole thing is

about how wacky and fun, all of these superheroes and wizards and ancient magic can be. It was a complete like 80s throwback to like the ancient, uh, mystical man that will give our hero his powers. Uh, but also he's like really grumpy and funny at times. With this, I, I don't, I don't really know how this movie thought it could use him because at the end of the day he was just kind of used as a,

a sidekick to Freddy? For Freddie? And eventually just being like, no, we must go here. And that's it. I mean, I, man, I don't know. I think the film used them. I mean, it definitely wasn't as impactful as the first film,

but like a little bit of comic relief, you know, where they come in and Freddy's like, you're supposed to be a wizard. You got no spells, no horror cruxers, no nothing. He's like, no, bro, I've been in the cell. 40 days 40 nights, man. This is where I live.

This is where it's... You got a really bad splinter coming out of his finger. That was gross. That was disgusting. And this is where I kind of, I got to have to start to praise our director,

David F. Sandberg here. Director of horror films, such as Annabelle and a couple of others. You can really tell that he tried to put in like quite a bit more like, tender love and care for a couple of like practical effects, monster designs,

and incredible acts of violence in this movie that I was genuinely shocked and impressed by at points. There's a moment where we see all of these like eggs like being birthing all of these monsters like throughout the streets of Philadelphia and one becomes like a lion with like a scorpion tail and it just stabs and impales a woman and then throws her into a building.

And I was like, oh my God, that's awesome for a second. I don't know why she was looking at that thing too closely. That's the same lady who, if you recall, just survived the wood splinter thing, right? Yes. Like the world is turning into, like it's looking like Last of Us quartercepts was coming through everything. Well, when it rains Olympian monsters, it pours, Joe, me. Sometimes you're just going to have a bad day. If I just got, if I just narrowly survived getting stabbed by the wood from the cheer of life.

Magic wood splinters, yes. I would keep running. I would not stop and stare at the bubbling mass of goo that's in the street. I would keep it pushing. That's enough proof for you. I would keep the muscle in my hustle. You feel me? I'm not really...

I'd run all the way down to Jersey for that. I'm not looking for no adventures. I'm not like, ooh, what's that? This isn't a scenic route. This isn't Universal Studios tour. You understand what I'm saying? This isn't the Hollywood Hills TMZ bus where you stop and take pictures. You keep it.

moving. That was nuts. But it's also like there's occasionally like really nuts and like innovative, surprising ideas in this movie where like we just, Freddie just sees his like favorite teacher like kill himself. That was crazy. That was so nuts. And I was like, oh my God.

Like this movie did not need to do that. But it did. It was so insane. Why? Why did you do that to my man, Teach Bader man? Right. Why? Brave and the bold Batman, come on.

Come on. It's tough. So there are moments in this movie that genuinely did surprise me. So I can't really discount that. I can't really write this movie entirely off because, like with the first one, there are these like moments of creative spark and brilliance that I really, really did love. And it's fewer and far between in this one, obviously. but there are moments of action. There are moments of thrill and horror,

and particularly in these monster designs that I'm like, we don't see this enough. There's like little bits of like good shit in here. You don't see unicorns enough? For real, though. Like, honestly, like, you don't see death steeds like that. You don't see like a man in a Cyclops outfit like that. You don't see like those crazy like harpies

with the like bat wings and quills. hair in a kid's movie like pulling people up and ripping people in half like that's it like you don't see that and I was like okay all right there's a little thing there's a little something here but for the most part we can still call this standard superhero fair for the most part and ultimately that leads to things that are more than a little disappointing I think by the end of this movie. Do you think that there's something to be

redeemed from? Was this outing worth it? Was this something that you ultimately enjoyed? Or do you think that they really could have used some more time in the lab on this one? I think they could have put another couple summers on this one, my boy.

Couple summers. You know, five, you know, three beats a day for five summers, you know what I'm saying? Like, they put in three beats and then they're like that that's good enough no man you know there again like there are some stuff like there's some

through lines like I said in beginning the emotional through lines of the film that I believe could have made this so much better so much more interesting and they just didn't expand on it or keep those threads going throughout the film

and knowing that was my favorite part of the first film coming back to the second part And I'm like, oh, I missed that. I wish there was more of that, you know, at that with, you know, the confusing sisters and the plot, you know, being the plot. And, you know, yeah, sure, cool dragon fight. You know what I mean? He calls, he says, uh, Kay Kalesi, which is, which is nuts in 2023.

It feels dated now. I'm like, you could have at least called her like Deneer, like, uh, the Valerians, right? The Targaryans. uh agone you can't say agon because hey amen or something like amen okay yeah those are way way more deeper cuts

right I just feel like acting like we didn't all just see house of the dragon last season okay but like I just you know it just felt like the calisi thing was like weird because again like when was the last time somebody called her Coletian Game of Thrones like legitimately

like season four oh boy we're gonna look like fools I don't know. Look, can you call them out? I know it was early on a Sunday, but it's Yeah, absolutely. We're going to get her right on the line here. Yeah.

No, it's just like, things like that where I was like, yeah, the cool things were too few and far between so where I can sit there and be like, I, you know, really enjoyed the film, you know, a little tighter, a little more emotional punch. And we're having a different conversation. But at the end of the day, it did not hit for me the way the first one did. So you're saying you could have used more product placement? I could have used so much more product placement. Let's talk about it, buddy. Paste the rainbow, motherf!

I really didn't think we'd have a little girl saying that. Listen, listen. Real cinema in that moment right there. Did you? Because I think that's where I was like, oh boy. Real cinema. That was, I'm not going to know, that did get a laugh out of me. It did?

Okay, wow. I'll say this. When she tossed the Skittles in slow motion, and you could sit so far so much to where you could see the s on one of them i'm like skittles paid a fortune for these movies don't skittles paid a fortune for this i did like the gag where she gave her where she was about to give helen mir in a bowl of all yellow

and she's like now i believe in some human rights you don't deserve red but that i mean they they do like a just do a sneaky good job of setting that up yeah where you know the the oldest sister's like hey why Why did my jeans get washed with Skittles in them? And she's like, well, I wanted you to, you know, Faith's like, I wanted this to be a surprise. She's like, Mary's like, no, man. That's not how that works.

It's not like a good surprise. It's not a good surprise, right? And then you mentioned the skittles in the, in the, in the layer. And then, yeah, she, like, throws the skittles at the, at the thing. and the unicorn. It's like, oh, cool, that worked too. We're like, what the, okay, cool. The moment they said Ambrosia, I'm like,

oh, God, here we go. I didn't put that. Like, they're going to do that. I didn't think, I did not think the movie was. I played too much Hades. I know exactly what Ambrosia is. It's honey. It's got to be honey, right?

Yeah, it's basically like godlike sweet honey. Yeah. So Skittles are in Ambrosia. Hey, next to godliness. Next to Godliness. Skittles. I have a question for you. Yes.

So we assume. that Skittles paid a lot for this, right? Don't assume. No, that Skittles paid a lot for this. Who do we think paid more, right? Skittles for this movie, Olive Garden for Sonic, or Krispy Cream for Power Rangers.

Oh, God. I want to say, only based on how integral they were to the movie, I feel like it's Skittles. I can't quite recall how integral Krispy Cream was to Power Rangers. My brother in Christ. It is crispy cream.

It is crispy cream. That was insane. Like literally, Elizabeth Banks is there like, where's crispy cream? We got to go to Krispy Cream as the villain, right? Right. And then she's at,

like literally at the Krispy Cream, eating a donut and drinking cop, bro. Like, it's so blatant and foul. I'm trying to remember, like the biggest point of product placement in, the DC

it like didn't Superman crash into an eye hop didn't that happen it was a Sears and a steel yeah yeah yeah yeah it was a man of steel yeah yeah yeah yeah there was a mountain dew thing was it a 711 too shit he crashed though there was a lot

he crashed into a lot turns out Superman come on clean this up MCU they do it sneaky right like they just put an ACRA exactly in the frame it's an ACRA it's an ACRA commercial and it's a shot of you Avengers where there's an

like, there's an, like, Acura, and they're running through, like, it's Cap and right, uh, Hawkeye and Black Widow after the plane crashed in New York. And they just run through the spot. They're in the shop for maybe like three seconds, but the Acura is there for 12. Right. And untouched. Just like, you know,

I, well, I think like, you know, there's some dust on it, but like no dance, no nothing. It's definitely like, cool. Really cool. Accura paid for this. Payed like big bucks. but it's not like they don't be like guys we have to get into the Accura ZC 700 to save New York listen do you guys remember the controversy in Wanda vision when she drove off into Buick and not an Accura? We were like what happened?

It's like what the fuck? What happened? Buick came for the snatch the chain. Listen, here's how this works, man. You know, film, making films are expensive. You know, you. They are. There's a lot of money.

There's a lot of time. involved. Business and commerce sometimes go hand in hand. Art and commerce. If you can get somebody to subsidize your bag, you know what I'm saying? Hey, we need 175 mil to make this movie. We only have 150.

Who's trying to pay 25 million? We got to make this wood dragon look as best as it can. Who's ready to taste the rainbow? All right? We'll make skittles an integral. It's really funny because in that moment, I'm in the theater and I'm eating skittles. Like, it's like my go-to candy in the place.

so I'm like, hey man, did I contribute to being part of this film? Am I the problem? Is it me? No, no. You're a victim. No, there's no, there's no, there's no, yeah, no, yeah, no ethical consumption under capitalism.

We know that. Oh, that's, uh, man. I gave him a best shot. You can't, you can't with them all. Stop. We really, really can't. All right. Before we go, before we move on,

we got to talk about the big, big, big, bad cameo that, uh, I'm going to say, served little to no purpose here, but, uh, we kind of got to do it. Yeah. Wonder Woman shows up. End of the movie. Oh my God.

To, uh, more or less not bring Billy back to life. I thought for a second she was about to bring him back to life, which would have been insane. She, did she not? Uh, no, because apparently he would have, healed anyway. She's like, you buried me because Billy wakes up and he's like, you buried me in two minutes.

Like I was going to be fine. No, no, no, no, no. No, no. He died. Maybe he died like a, like a mug. Yes. And he was like, you buried, like you buried me so fast. You'd even, there was no, you didn't even wait. I know. That really is true. And which is weird because like he died in kid form, but then woke up in Shazam form.

Yeah, that's, that is weird. well, I guess that's how that's supposed to work, right? You're supposed to do the Shazam and, you know, you wake up and they're like, oh, oh, cool. You know, look at me. That's what he says. Yeah. But yeah, no, I could see that. I can absolutely see that.

And this is what I was saying about, like, there being actual moments of charm and inspiration in here. Again, I hate to keep bringing back the first Shazam, but, like, it's a great wink and nod to end the first Shazam with a Superman cameo that's not a Superman cameo where the like everything but

the neck down is Superman and everybody's like oh my God he's here but like clearly they don't have Henry Cavill. Clearly there's like this weird tacit acknowledgement that like okay maybe Billy and Shazam aren't exactly up in the big leagues

with the Justice League like that. And I hate it. I found I found it very cute and charming. I really did. I really, really did. And then when Billy has this like romance fantasy about going on a date with Wonder Woman in Paris, but like you don't see her face,

I'm like, okay, this is funny because they clearly don't have Galgado Godot. They can't get Galgado. Godot. Why would they get Galda Godot? We just need a girl like just standing in the costume being like, uh, uh, uh, from the back. And that's all that you need. And then the wizard shows up and it's his face.

that's very, very funny. I hated every single second. I loved every single second of that. Hated it. I was like, clearly you can't get Galcatel. No, but that's the thing. They can.

They can. So why bother? No, what do you, huh? What are you talking about? What does that mean? That means that like, okay,

if you could get Galgado for that one scene, why not get her for the restaurant scene as well? Yeah, exactly. That's my problem. No, but that's my whole point where I'm like,

okay, well, we don't need to spoil it. we don't need to have her in there. Spoil it. My brother in Christ, it was on the trailer. I understand that. On the TV, she was in the movie. Why would you advertise that?

And then we come to the theater and we're like, oh, look, it's Wonder Woman and it's clearly not Wonder Woman. It's a, it's a nice person getting paid very handsomely to see the Wonder Woman suit from the neck down. Not as handsomely, but you know, you know, good for you. Get your bag. You feel me? I ain't never going to be a play.

I don't play again a bag. but we know she's in the film why why you teat why what's with the tease who are you fooling it was it was crazy that's when they really knew that the box office was in trouble they really did know that I guess if you want to say like as a bit

you know it's cool like it's a fun bit but you can't spoil the bit when I'm watching on the trailer yeah I'm watching you know Wednesday basketball on Wednesday night ESPN and they're like you know she walks off with the staff literally at the end of the film is in the trailer. The last shot,

it's one of the last shots in the movie. I'm like, oh, cool. Spoiler alert, I guess. You know,

I didn't know she was in the movie like that, but cool. You know? And then, yeah, like I said,

if it's a bit, if you want to do it as a bit, I could see that, but no, no, man. I think Penn Steve should have had a couple

more passes on the script is all awesome. Penn Steve was great. Penn Steve was great. Penn Steve was great. Top 10 Steve right there. Love me. All right.

All right. then Steve. Let's go to one of our final segments here for the day. Last one, flash one. With the passing of Shazam 2, rest in peace, now we have one more Snyderverse outing before the changing of the guard of James Gunn's

DCU. DC Universe. Whatever James Gunn wants to do, because he's directing the whole damn thing now. Are we going to miss some of the lighthearted outings that the Shazam films brought to us? Or are you ready for a more

raucous, comedic, gun-fied vision from James Gunn. Well, yeah, you want something more streamlined. There, there was always room like the MCU we talk about, you know, as a blueprint for these things. There's Winter Soldier and Gardens of the Galaxy came out the same year.

Right. Right. Those are very, very different movies in terms of tone and, you know, the energies of the film. You know, one is very, very, you know, serious, you know, to ask you to, you know, look at what, you know, what being Captain America means, what be like, you know, holy, like, you know, real, real, real different. Like it's a real spy, real thriller, whereas Guardians is a comedy, you know, it's a family

comedy, right? Well, not really family. There are something to be perfect. It's a comedy about family. Yeah, you know what I mean? So there's absolutely room for that. I'd be interested to see how James Gunn delivers that and how he balances it. Because he's coming to direct the first Superman movie.

That's going to set the tone. That's going to let us know what his ideal is if Superman's going to lead the charge in this next phase. So how does that set up the pins for the rest of the DC-X10 universe? I'll be interested to see. But when it's all said and done to like fully answer, question. Absolutely. I hope there's much diversity in the films that we see because you don't want to see the same. The thought it was the problem with the sign of first. It was all the same. All

droopy, all sad, all, you know, I'm going to say all bad. Let me not piss off the sign of Bruce fans. Hey, all Martha. Why did you say that night? There was, you know, there's some good there, but like, I don't want all the movies to be the same at the end of the day. So I hope there is room for diversity in the filmmaking we get for the new James Gunn, cinematic universe.

I think my one proclamation to James Gunn is that I would say, don't forget the good elements that came from these movies. Don't miss out on these cool monsters.

Don't miss out on the heart that Billy Batson can bring, that a Billy Batson's family and wonder can bring to those movies. Obviously, I'm excited to see

what Gunn and his team can bring to this new batch of heroes and new batch of characters that we're going to be seeing that we haven't seen almost ever. But I really don't want it to I fear it getting watered

down by a certain unified vision here. Again, like we've had before. And what Shazam was to me was an ultimate breaking of that Snyderverse mold. that it can be lighthearted, that it can be funny, that it can be warm and endearing for kids.

And I like that palate cleanse, that shift in flavor to something a bit more appealing. Not to say that they aren't appealing, but like it's a new style that we can bring to this. I think that James Gunn is a smart enough film creative that he can bring on a lot of people with a lot of great different ideas. I don't doubt that.

But what I hope is that we can have that diversity of vision while also not losing sight of fun, flashiness, and ultimately family-friendly fair. This was the first Shazam really, really, really means a lot to me. And I hope that that is echoed throughout films to come. And speaking of the final films to come, The Flash is coming out this year. You got word that

Cinema Gawad himself, Tom Cruise, gave it the co-sign and blessing that he loved the movie. Do we think that the Snyderverse will be going out with a bang, or will it be going out with a whimper with the Flash? It's going to go out with a

enormous bang, and we're going to be sitting here wondering like, dang, we missed out on real cinema. Bring Snyder back. We missed out. on the best of how films can be. How dare we, we spoke too soon.

If that's what I want the flash to suck. Oh, yeah. No, look, I think, look, every single conversation about the film is how great it is and how awesome it is. And how just, wow, what a, what a, what a concept. What a, what a, what a, what a, sure. How, this is the movie we need right now. Exactly, right. And so a lot of gas.

ladies and gentlemen, a lot, a lot of gas surrounding this movie. Look, if it's bad, then it's bad, right? Then we'll just be like, cool. Then we'll keep it pushing. We'll keep it pushing.

I think if it's really good, it does raise questions, right? Like, so who plays the Flash in the future? Can we integrate this movie into the larger DCEU? You know, they're at a point where they can start picking and choosing, right? What they want to speak canon,

what they want to not be canon. And so it's going to, look, I'm not the one of those to answer these questions, right? That's James Gunn and Peter Saffron, right? That's all them when it's all said and done. But, man, if it's a great movie, how do you then say, cool, everybody loved it, everybody had a great time. We want to see more of this tough scene, right? Like it's, ah, starts to get a little dicey in the D.C. Studios office, man. It does. It does.

If a flash is a hit, then they go out with a bang and they can be like, great. We had a great run with that. All of the tumultuous problems that we had leading up to this was worth it. And we'll see you in the next iteration of these heroes. Ultimately, I think that this is just something that we are ready to be, ready to see out in our screens because I'm still a little bit bitter about the Batgirl fiasco and the fact that if we're ready for this to all

be over, this better be something good when it's all said and done. I'm sure Batgirls sort of them around there somewhere, man. You just got to get on your dark web skills, man. I'll be hacking into those servers. They leaked the Scooby-Doo movie? Yeah. Here's the thing though, right?

They leaked the Scooby-Doo movie? I said it was bad, man. Again, we will be the judge of that. Streets who saw instead it was bad. That's fine. This is like, you know what I mean? To it, cowards.

You know, I mean, sit on it. Look, look, you know, you can't all be winners. You know what I mean? Like, look, if you made a meal for some people and you ate it and you're like, ah, man, this is bad. You wouldn't still bring it out to the table. You say it like, like, they can't all be, they can't all be winners. I'm on the opposite side. They can't all be losers. That's why I gave Shaziazziam.

to a shot. I don't know. Like, they can't all be losers. If you, if you, if you make a Scooby-Doo film, right,

after Velma has come out, which is, that's, okay, treading lightly here. I mean, let's be very clear. Vema's one of the worst things

that's ever been produced in media in a long time. It's bad. I have not, I have not had the privilege of seeing it, but, if you are willing to stand on that,

I would give you the platform. So his thing, right? You know me, man. I watch a lot of, a garbage. Hey, I watch a lot of garbage. Nobody's going to step to that, buddy. You know what I mean? Like, I'll, you know, I watch a show that's not great because there's like, oh, I love triangle I'm interested or man, I really love these meta bits. You know what I mean?

Vama's legitimately one of the worst shows I've ever seen. I could only get through one episode. Like, it was just, there was so much cringe. And I'm not even like, I don't even use that word, like, online like that. But, yeah. No, it's, I kind of hate, it's overused a lot, but yes, that's good apply. I'm telling you, watch, just go watch episode one right now when we're done. Let's go put on episode one. And, like, you're going to be like, no, I can't watch this. It's just not good, right?

That came out. The Scooby-Doo movie also came out. And people were like, these are both terrible. It wasn't like, they were like, well, this is better than Velma. It's like, oh, no, these are both not great. You know, I'm sure people put Velma below the C-B-D-D-M movie. but they're yeah these are both not good so I mean the thing is

you probably could have kept Velma you know shelve that one and giving us bad girl if that's how you really feel Steve but you know hey look all I'm saying is maybe they had a reason maybe bad girls if we're making cuts I got a lot more things to cut more than Batgirl that's all I'm saying you're trying to get succession cuts see like you're not even

you're not even know new get from orbit no I'm kidding I would never I absolutely would never all right well with that absurd claim it's not absurd it's facts It's true. I've seen it. I've seen the reviews.

It's very true. We're going to call it there. Guys, it's always great talking to you. We're so happy that you listen. We're so happy that you're here with us. And we're going to be back next time to talk about guess what, Joe? Guess what?

I don't know. Tell us. Dungeons and Dragons. Oh, yeah! Roll for initiative. It's going to be a great time. We're going to have a lot of surprises. we're going to have a very, very fun time.

But until then, be sure to check out the rest of the Ring Reverse. Every Wednesday, the Midnight Boys, are going to be giving you their instant reactions to the Mandalorian, as well as on Fridays. The House of R will be giving you their deep dives. Check in with them. And remember, thank you so, so much to our great producer, Jonathan Kerma,

an additional production from our Juno Ramcoe Pau. Junior Mintz, once again, thank you so much for rocking with us. It means so much that you keep listening. And we know that we're not really on for long or for that often. But really, sticking with us, it's a privilege. I really, really appreciate you guys. Jomi, what have you got to say to the people?

Everybody listening. We appreciate you. We love you. Thank you for tuning in as always. I know we don't always have the wisdom of Solo Man, but we go out here. We try our best. I want to give another shout out to our. Sheppard producer, the great Sean Kermasie.

And we will see you guys next time. Who wants the Gatorade? What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt, keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California Milk by Real California Farm Families.