The Ringer-Verse - ‘Spider-Noir’ Premiere Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

The Boys are back, and they’re here to discuss Amazon Prime’s newest show: ‘Spider-Noir’! Then, they spend some time brainstorming what other Spider-verse characters they’d like to see have their own show. (0:00) Intro (15:04) Spoilers ahead (19:40) ‘Spider-Noir’ premiere reactions (1:01:57) Brainstorming Spider-Man shows (1:15:22) Outro Hosts: Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Steve Ahlman, and Jamie Yukich Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome into the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the ringer's Nexus podcast fee for all things. Fandom, we are Steve, the architect, Almond, the builder and tigger of things. Jomi, the explainer, Diron. What?

I'm torn. Why? I'm torn between the explainer and the algorithm. The algorithm fits now, but... Explaners is just too classic. The explainer's classic. It's better.

Yeah, it's probably... It's more him. Old Man, Van, here the receding resurgent hair line. There is no Charles today. All right. What does that mean? We don't know, but we still are The Midnight Boys.

We'll be back right after this. Fals on socials at the Midnight Boys Pot on instant and TikTok at Ringiverse on Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. Tell me. I just want to get out in front of it right now. You're not putting nothing in black and white on social. It's all going to come to you in true who color. Let's see.

True who. True who? True. I can speak. Dr. Seuss is true who. I use my words but no thank you guys

for continue to follow you know we had the Mando and Grogo coverage for you last week that went nuts and then we're gonna have Massa's an universe

stuff for you next week Master Universe that's you're excited you are without a doubt you came in you saw the first reviews

of the movie you're like gas it's gas I can't wait I'm locked it so my therapist tells me that I can no longer

say I told you so interesting why did they say that because my therapist said that the next evolution of me is getting rid of the need to be right and engaging in conversation. That's a big question.

Would you rather be happy or would you rather be right? Well, for me, it's a question of not necessarily even being happy. It's like part of the reason why or being right, part of the reason why I am so curious is the need to be informed and a need to be informed. Does it come from the need to have matters? mastery or the need to be right in any given situation. And so if I can release that, my therapist says, that'll be a good thing. That's so interesting because I would much rather be happy than be right.

However, when someone is wrong and I know they're wrong and I know I'm right, there's just some righteous indignation that comes out of me that I definitely need to work on. Where it's like, you got years though. Still though, it's still a problem. I'm CEO of Pick Your Battles Industries over here. So in that, it doesn't matter what happens with He Man. No. It doesn't matter.

What it matters is if I enjoy He Man. But the reviews coming back look like they hit the right rhythm on the entire deal. Hell yeah. Which would be, would just be pretty insane in terms of the general landscape of movie going right now. If that movie were to go crazy. It's still not tracking crazy. I mean, I can't. I mean, think about it.

This is an IP that's long in the tooth. You know, how many kids are like, yeah, I'm going to go watch He-Man and a battlecats. Yeah, will the streets move for He-Man? We don't know. They're saying that it could be a Dungeons and Dragon situation. That's, I love that. Bring back Jonathan. Now, if they put Shira in the movie, you know, it would have done $3 billion.

Who knows? Thundercats crossover? We're on YouTube. Like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boys and House of Our episode on YouTube.com Backslash at Ringiverse and also on Spotify. Programming Reminders, okay? This week, House of R will be revising. revisiting, should I say, revisiting,

Tenet, they could revise it. A lot of people could revise it. I was talking to Joe in the studio today, man. You got to let Tenet happen to you, man. You got to let the time flow through you, brother. Don't think about it too hard. Interesting. Don't think about it too hard.

Just watch the movie for what it is special. The bully gets the bully. He gets the bullet. The bullet comes back. I can do the good. Inverted. Don't you don't. Nolan's high on his own supply.

It's tough. They're revisiting it. They're not revising it. Let's see if they revise it. as well as doing their Spider-N-Wore Deep Dive on Friday, Budmash will return to talk about 007 First Light. Now, I saw a tweet.

And the tweet was basically saying that 007 First Light is one of the greatest review games of all time or something like that. People are going crazy over it. People really like this game. Yeah, I've been playing it for the past few days, and it's really, really good. It's a lot like the game that I love Hitman,

a lot like Uncharted. If you love James Bond, they do the thing that we love, Jomey. They do James Bond Academy, all the fresh young recruits and the fresh young double-O. Let me say uncharted. Which uncharted do you mean? I mean the good ones, two and three. So this, so this nigga James Bond is in this game. Yes.

And what is he doing in here? He's like 26. He's a fresh new MI6 recruit. And he's earning his number in this adventure. So he's earning his number. Do they have multiplayer on here? No, they do not. This is a single-player adventure.

You thought it was like old enough? I'm not trying to play this. I'm not trying to play this. There's no odd job that you can just throw the hat at. I'm not trying to play this. What? Oh, come on.

Well, he's too busy playing the show first of foremost. I can't play 007 because I'm too busy playing Lego Batman. That's fair. Lego Batman for the sale. The guy who played Dexter is playing James Bond. Uh, no. He's played this guy who plays... You play Dexter?

Yeah, Young Dexter Morgan. Oh, Young Dexter, yes. That is him. Baby, Desk. So he's, he's a baby. So he's... He's, so there's no, so there's no, there's no. You don't, you know what, you're going to show for this?

No, what I'm saying is that there's no multiplayer. No. They got to have multiplayer. Not everything needs multiplayer. This is a hotly contested. This was a big problem in the previous console generation, where they just added multiplayer to everything. Uncharted.

They didn't need it. Yeah. Uncharted have multiplayer? That doesn't make any sense, though, because that's an adventure game. Yeah. Though, almost of the Walking Dead. What's it called? Last of us.

Last of us have good multiplayer. That doesn't make any sense either. It doesn't. Because like, these are, these are, these are, adventure. This is a game, he got a gun. How much does he use the gun in this? He's got the gun on him. It's like a 50-50 split of you like being a spy and walking around like

and infiltrating parties and like using your gadgets and hacking cameras and stuff like that. And then you're shooting your gun. It's supposed to be some stuff. Yeah. I'm going to be bad. So like, oh, so this is more like metal gear then. A little bit. It's a mix of both because there's like sections where you're like infiltrating a high society party

and you got to like hack somebody's cell phone and tail them and stuff like that. And then it's like, oh my God, we got into a situation, license to kill, blam, blam, blam. So this is not then Daniel Craig's bond because he wasn't on that type of shit. No, this is a brand new.

It's a brand new. No, I'm saying it's like, just as a bond approximation, he wasn't on that type of time and he was shooting you and your goddamn face on some type of shit. Yeah. So this is like,

Brague was angry. Because bonds before was more that was into spy shit. Daniel Craig was like, man, let's fucking get it popping, shoot you on your shit. Yeah. Popping you in your shit. drive the car, crash your car into your bitch ass, like, kick you in your shit.

Kick your nuts. What's your favorite Craig, a bomb movie? I don't really care. It's all they're saying to me. Because he's real royale is good. Like, I never really connected with him as James Bond as much. Really?

I guess because he's my first bond. So, like, obviously. That's your first bomb? Yeah. The first bond that you cared about. He's not your first bond. Well, maybe he is. Was that the first bond movie you ever saw?

I wasn't correct. The first bond I watched. I wasn't watching. Yeah, you were a baby. Yeah, it wasn't watching this. Right. Everybody was like. So then the bone,

know it's a more aggressive bond. Yeah. So that's cool. Yeah, he was cool as bond. I just like, by that point, I will say this about me as a bond watcher. I've been through many bonds. Yeah. Really, I've been through all the bonds.

Are you a Dalton, Truther, like me? Like, it's not bad. But, like, I've been through all the bonds because I go back and watch a lot of bond. Because I was, by the way, this bond is coming out when I'm like 24, 25. So I had enough time. This bond's coming out when you're like 11. I mean, what? Cassino Royale was like, what, 05?

Yeah. And Conno Salas is 08. Right. And then Sky Falls 2012. So you didn't even have enough time to dig into all the bond. It's not until later. It was so my bond is Sean Connery and then, you know, you have Timothy Dalton, then you have Roger Moore.

You have all the bonds. Pierce Brasen in the 90s. So by the time when you get to this, I'm like, that's another guy's bond and doing some different shit wasn't that big of a deal to me. But then when I watch him, it's kind of an angry bond. Yeah. Didn't smile. Like, you know, he wasn't like, you know, he wasn't like.

It was different. Daniel Craig, that's what he does. And, you know, he was also a tough bond for you to, like, he wasn't very charming to me. I see what you mean. Yeah, he's more like gristled. And not all the more charming. Sometimes bond is kind of a dick, right? It's an asshole.

Kind of. But, like, I don't know, man, like Pierce and, I, Jesus Christ. Pierce, Bosnan. And Sean Connery. Sean Connery, specifically. Like, the smoothness is crazy. Yeah, but he was also like highly problematic. Highly misogynist.

Highly problematic bond. That's very, but that's like, that, that is bond. Like, fake to the DNA, especially like old bond. No, no, no, it, like, I'm not saying that in our world right now, we can't, like, remove that from the thing. But if you're going back, you're watching 70s, 80s bond. Yeah, yeah. There is going to be a little, you know, it's not ideal.

What you're going to remove? How are you going to make bond into, how are you going to make bond in a way? Woke Bond? How do you make woke bond? Tell me. I want to, I want your take on woke bond. Yeah. So let's set this scenario, right?

He's at a casino. He walks to a woman. Starts with a land acknowledgement. You know what I'm saying? That's super woke bond. That's like, it's woke SS Plus. I'm just talking about regular. Starts with a what?

A land acknowledgement. What's that? That's like this is not our land. This is the land of the Native Americans. Bond going to say that? That's what he said. I don't, Okay.

Walks into the casino. the land acknowledgement. He's got a pen that has his, his pronouns. He, him. You know, walks up to a person. Doesn't know if they're a man or woman. He asks their pronouns first. Excuse me. What are your pronouns? Okay. And then they're like... The name's

Bond. He, him. That's it. I'm a woman. Oh, lovely. Would you like a drink? No, sir. Excuse me. I'm waiting for my husband to come back. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to take up your... Any more of your time. you have a great day miss. Doesn't get any spy work done.

Because remember, I want to say it was Spector. He's like, he banged that woman who he killed her husband. Woke Bond would never do that. Wokebond would be like, listen, work and work and personal life, I have not only should I separate them, but also it is inappropriate for me to have sex with this woman, not only because I killed her husband, but also she is grieving. And that's not the right thing to do.

So I will separate myself from this interaction. Do you know why Woke Bond won't work? Why? It's not because of all of the stuff that you're saying. Right. It's not. It's because Wobon is not going to make it through the academy. Like Woke Bonn is not going to do Woke Bonn,

they're going to ask Woke Bonn to go out and go on a mission, and he's going to be like, look, I've been doing this for six hours. There's been no lunch. There's been, like, my manager isn't checking in on me. Yeah. I'm not getting any type of. of support. I'm out here by myself. I'm not getting paid enough. I'm not getting paid enough.

Like nothing's happening. What are the benefits? Like what's going on? This feels like an unpaid internship here at MI6. Like all of this stuff is bullshit and woke bond is going to get kicked right the fuck out of the academy. And then they're going to put some young scrapper in there like the Kingsman. Like they're going to put that guy in there. I mean, he's going to go be 007.

Yeah. Woke Bond can't happen. Bond got to be toxic. Bond has got to be toxic. But like hot, toxic is a little flavor, little spice. Now, this is the deal. I think I have a hot take. Okay.

It's not a hot take. I hate when people say I have a hot take. I have an idea, okay? This is my idea. Rather than define good, what we should be defining is toxic. Okay. Lock me in.

What is good or woke or whatever? It's just like very, very amorphous. Who knows? we should be putting levels on what toxic can be. What we won't stand for. Right. So we should be putting levels on toxic. For example, Bonn has the woman eyes.

That's what he's got to do it. Right. Okay. Right. He's got the woman eyes. But the level is that the old bond kind of at points seem like he wasn't giving you no choice. Right. Exactly.

You know what I'm saying? The old bond kind of was on some bitch make me a sandwich time. We can't be on that type of time. No, no. So we should set level. for toxic and not even aspirations to better because we can say hey that's too toxic. You can be toxic but this is the toxic levels

that we will accept. Right. Right. That's kind of the thing because Bond got to be toxic because Bonn eventually has to kill. Right. He has to kill for the government. He's also in the CIA which means in the English CIA. MI6 whatever, the English CIA. So that means Bond has to go and destabilize governments, overthrow leaders, do all that type of shit. Like Bond's got to do it. So it's a lot of It's like, nah, he's never going to be a nice guy.

You can't be in that line of work. Right. We just can't have him, like, we can't have a woman trying to slap Bond, and Bond catching her hand and pushing her down and then taking the shirt off. We can't do that. No, that's a bridge too far. Okay, we should, we should think about this. We should think about what we will accept from Bond and what we won't accept.

Dues and don'ts. Dues and Dotes for Bond. But this nigga here at First Light, this nigga not going to make it. By the last thing that I can say about First Light, I forgot the stunt-casted villain in this, Lenny Kravitz. He's in the game? Yes.

Oh, he's like a pirate king in like a Madrepoor situation. Remember when they cast Kevin Spacey and Black Ops? That's true. They did do that. He was basically doing a Frank Underwood impression. Where is a... What pod was I on when

we were talking about James Bond and somebody said that James Bond is cool because we don't get that much James Bond. Did Mahoney say that? That might have been Sean. I don't think it was Sean. It wasn't Sean? Bond's cool because we don't get that much Bond anymore?

Someone was saying that Bond is cool. I think it was Rob. I think Rob said it. I think Rob said it. And then Amazon bought this. And now you're about to get Bond everywhere. First light, Dawn's early light, glass light, dusk, all of that.

Okay. We've bullshitted enough. A bullshit session. Feels weird without Charles. On today's show, we will be covering Spider-E, Noir. Jomey, tell people what Spider-N-Wore is. Spider-N-Wore is a...

It's actually M-G-M-T-plus show that Christopher... Christopher Miller and Phil Lord have co-produced with Amazon, and now they are releasing it for us on May 27th. It is based on the character, the Spider-N-Wore character

that debuted in comics, I think, in 2009, but really the cultural debut of this character was in Spider-Man. into the Spider-verse, which everybody thought that the character was hysterical. It was hysterical. It was.

And also perfectly casted. Yes. Perfectly casted. Perfectly casted. The questions around this show, could the energy of that character carry over to his own series? And then could something

that is so funny and timely in animation make the jump to live action with the same type of energy and the same type of feel? We're going to be answering those questions and we're going to be spoilt. a lot of shit.

That's why we need the spoiler warning. We're getting ready to talk about... Can you see it as a spider's busy? You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right. We have to start our reactions. And to do that, I'm going to sneeze.

And then Jomi is going to bring you the Midnight Manifest, talking about all the need to know Jomey, please. All right. The premiere episode of Spider-Newar is called Step Into My Office, directed by Harry Bad Beer and written by showrunner, Orrin Ouzio. We start off with Ben Riley swinging through 1930s New York City, talking about how he used to be the spider until his girlfriend was murdered. Five years later, Ben is chasing a man for a job, and it turns out he can cover himself in fire. That's weird. I know the PI shoots him, but Ben isn't convinced that this is over.

Meanwhile, another man comes in saying his wife is cheating on him. needing the money, he takes the job only to find out that that woman is with the mayor. The guy on fire, he tried to burn down gangster Silverman's house, and the other PA that was hired also hired to find him was caught and told Silverman the truth that he killed him. Ben, deciding that he doesn't want to deal with any of that nonsense, tries to sell the picks back to Cat Hardy, but she doesn't bite. Ben is followed by Flint Marco, and as they fight, Flint starts to turn into sand, and that's your premiere episode of the... Spider-Nuant. You overperformed. You are trying to unseat Charles.

That's all right, all right. So you, like, so you, you know for a second. Hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. You always do this. Why are you got to do this? No, I'm saying is that what you could have done, there are two ways. I want everybody to notice. What?

Because Zendaya showed up at her friend's wedding. Did you see that? I did. Yeah, that was very nice. No, it wasn't. What did you can show up? She got an invite. No is the answer to the question

Zendaya showed up to the friend's wedding You know what we should play that video so people can see I love Zendaya by the way I love Zendaya Zendaya showed up to her friend's wedding And what do you think happened? First of all the people are up there getting married Let me tell you something Say two things about this clip

Right One and this is just me being a nice person Not being a nice person Just being a real guy It's very interesting to see Zendaya Walk into a room filled with normal people. Just to see how she looks.

She's like, you know, beautiful people. Movie star and then the rest of us. Right? It's like, she walked in there and it was like, you know, yeah, okay? So that, but that happened while it seemed like they were up there. Yes. Like getting married.

Something was going on. Everybody turned around look at Zendaya. I'm saying that to say that you don't do that to your friends. And what you just did by performing that competently on the Midnight Manifest was you showed up to Charles's wedding. Uh-huh. Zendayaed him. You Zendaya at him.

I zendayaed him. You Zendaya at Chuck. Wow. That's crazy. You try to do it. Chuck, I know you listening right now. Don't listen to that. That nigger is so far away from giving a fuck about anything that's happening on this

podcast. Are you fucking nuts? Vacation, Charles. Are you fucking nuts? If Charles was here right now, he was his mind with me on a beach somewhere and sipping a bohito, like we're not worried about it. about this right. Yeah.

I'm saying, all right. I'm dead. Okay. Into the show, let's start it. Steve, why don't you get people familiar with the noir construct? Like, what is a noir tropes? You got this in a document here. What are the tropes of a noir that this would kind of have to meet?

Well, something that I was really, like, excited for this show to be and, like, kind of an anticipation that I wanted to have in the show coming in is it wrestling with all of the cultural phenomenons and tropes that noir stories. have had. Usually it's a private detective. Usually it's getting photos of somebody in a scandal. It's a missing girl. It's a dead wife. It's all of these things that kind of

culminate into like a roundabout adventure that's wrapped up in a mystery. And I think for the first episode grounded by a more subtle Nick Cage performance that I'm sure will get elevated as the season goes on, I was really

enthralled by this. This is actually a really good icebreaker of a comic book noir story. I like the idea that Ben Riley, who is a conodical Star Wars, conodical Spider-Man character in this universe is a private detective that is set off to investigate

a missing person and now we are like wrapped up in a criminal scandal that involves the mayor. This is a very like interesting setting for the beginning of what this story is going to be and then something that is going to unravel as time goes on. Jomey, what did you think about the fact that it's set in New York? It is offered in two different color hues, black and white, and true hue color. A, did you watch that in black and white or go to color?

And what did you notice any differences? So I watched it in both, right? Because I wanted to see what the difference is or like how I would feel react to watching it in, you know, what true hue? and black and white. And while the color, like the colors pop, first and foremost, when Cat Hardy's on the stage and she's got the gold on and it's shining, it looks incredible, right?

But the black and white, for me, I think, is the true way to watch this. And I'll tell you why. Lord of Miller talked before the show came out. And they mentioned what they wanted to do with the show. and their inspiration was 70% Humphrey Bogart, 30% Bugs Bunny. Now, I haven't seen the Bugs Bunny portion of this yet, a little bit when he's like hanging out the edge and he's about to drop him and he's like,

he's done actually scare me. That's a little Bugs Bunny. But the Humphrey Bogart stuff is like, this is like classic noir tropes. Like, you know, we're talking like Maltese Falcon, Caso Blancke, all that stuff. Anything with a mid-Atlantic accent, you know. is firmly baked into watching it in black and white.

And so I think ultimately the way to go, if you want to watch it, like they intend to watch it in black and white. But either way, I thought it was great. I thought this was a really interesting episode of television in regards to, because I think we should mention for the audience that he's in the movie into the spot of verse,

he's Peter B. Parker, right? Peter Benjamin Parker. This one, he's Ben Riley, and that's like for rights and because there's obviously going to be a lot of drinking, smoking, like they don't want Peter Parker to be sullied, you know, in the show. However, Nick Cage, fellas, he's doing great work. Unk still got it.

Yeah, he does. And he likes playing with genre like this in these types of films. The aspects of the noir here are, it's tricky for a Spider-Man story, for a live-action Spider-Man story, because those stories are always based and not always based. obviously there's mysteries, there's extra marital stuff, but there's sex, there's violence, there's all of that stuff that exists.

If you're thinking about more serious, noir stories like Chinatown, which is like this really intricate crime story that really has to do with the expansion of Los Angeles, that blue dress, all that type of stuff, even down to like Roger Rabbit, all that type of stuff, Blade Runner, all of those different things. So when you're dealing with that,

the tone is normally very direct and heavy because your lead character almost always has some sort of trauma that makes you believe that he would lead this sort of life. That stuff doesn't really seem to fit the type of superhero stuff that we're making right now because it's a little bit, it's not quite as brutal as like some of the stuff that people love that subverts the superhero. But then at the same time, it's got to be a little bit more serious than your regular MCU fear. This totally is perfect.

Totally is perfect. There's some scenes in the pilot here that are kind of brutal. Like you see a guy get his throat cut. You see a dude take three to the chest. You see some stuff. But at the same time, there is a lightness that Nicholas Cage is able to bring to the performance, a comedic timing that he has. And also the sort of absurdist understanding that we have of Nicholas Cage as a performer

that allows this to exist sort of in the in-between of. of something that is a little bit more desperate, but also kind of tongue in cheek. I love Nicholas Cage as a performer because to me he's always been the type of guy that acts as if he is just about to find out that what he's doing isn't real, like real life, and that like, oh, I'm not actually the Spider-Man

detective that I'm supposed to be. But everybody around him has that aura of like self-serious actor presence, but around Nick Cage, it's this kind of like gravitational pull center of charisma that like elevates everybody else I think the like external cast

here is kind of great everybody has their own like sort of character affects everybody's got a little bit of like a wise cracking one liner to bring to the table it's a very sharp and well written well rounded cast to bring it what did you think of Lamorne in this don't host a show I was trying to think

I was I was trying to think of I was trying to think of I was trying to think Passing the ball. Who I was really happy to see. Yeah. We'll get to Lamar because I had to text him about something in the show. I had to text him about something. Is this the fact that they went to the prince again, the new girl bar?

No. I was happy to see Lamar, but I was really happy to see somebody that I was like super interested in seeing more of. Leisure and Lee from Sinners, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little chilling here. You know why? Chilling here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, in Sen her, she pissed me off, and I'm never getting over it. Right. Come in here.

Okay. You like that. No, I don't like that. But, like, listen, if you're going to kill my kid, I'm sorry, like, I'm fighting. Nah, we got to have some better plate discipline. Don't swing at that. That's a ball outside. Okay.

Like, they get you, they want you to chase. You know they want you to chase. Keep the bat on your shoulder. They're going to kill my kid, though. All right, I'm sorry. I mean, maybe they will. Maybe they won't. There's nothing that you can do to stop them from doing that by allowing them to come in and kill you.

I mean, but I have a chance. They could send half of the vampires in there and then go, hey, she called us out. Go save her kid. Like she, she, there was nothing. Does doing nothing guarantee that chance happening or not happening? Well, I mean, the reality to me is in that entire situation, it's not even about that. She glitched out. Understandably so.

She glitched out. She glitched out. Most time we don't understand it. You kill my husband. You're going to kill my daughter. It's still a bad move to make. I understand. I understand it.

Yeah. She glitched out. Here's a deal, though. Also, in that situation, I would be assuming that the daughter was already gone. At that point, you got to cut your losses. Okay.

This is so. No, no, no, no. Under the assumption that everybody not in the bar is dead. The whole town is vampire. Yeah. The only thing you can do now. Protect yourself. Protect yourself.

You know what I mean? The husband's fucked up, whatever. I still don't like it. Now, she is beautiful in this, but also plays the sort of femme fatale in a, it's not that much in it. But she's awesome as it. Yeah. It's trope. They don't even try to hide the truth.

She's singing. She's singing. She's doing a whole thing. She's at the club and like the slanky thing. It's great. It's wonderful. And also, so I saw. the pilot in black and white and color, that scene

in color astounded. I tell you, man. I personally like to like watching the show in black and white, in color more. I enjoyed it in color more, but I think everything I read about like what Phil and sorry, what Lorde and Miller

wanted it to do was basically like make a noir show that is true to the nours from the early 1900s. And so when I'm watching it, I can feel that more in black and white. beautiful in color. Yeah.

Right? And it's obviously more natural to us. But I think just like the math in their head when you're watching it in black and white you go,

this is a show that you could have, you maybe could have put in 1930s and people might not know except for like the swing. It was actually genius to shoot it in both black and white and color. Yeah.

To get people. Because I didn't know Lamorne was dressing like that until I saw it in color. I was like, oh wow, you get that done. You're spiffy. So you know what I asked

Lamorne? I reached out to him. What? Where's he getting faded up like that in the depression in 19th like brothers had close brothers had but like I feel like

there's a fade technology that's being used on his character bleeding I don't know if that was around well I mean he's in New York right so we go to Harlem right he can go to Harlem but were they even given were you was the fade even even in vogue like that at that time

is I was I mean I know brothers had the but was the fade even going crazy like that because I'm gonna be real with you the faded has seen dramatic increases in technology, even in like the last 15 to 20 years. So Lamarne could theoretically be on the bleeding edge of a hair, like, what he told me was that he goes throughout the multiverse to get his haircut. That's great.

That's a much better answer than going to Harlem and having somebody. The first guy event the fade. Yeah. So Lamar Morris plays Robbie Robertson, Gene Loon. Lee Jun Lee. Lee plays Cat Hardy. Brendan Gleason is Silver Main and Karen Rodriguez

plays Janet. Those are all the rest of the cast members in this show. I think everybody has an incredible hold on their character. Every single person

I just named out adds to every scene that they're in. Yes. There's the scene where the guy comes in and it's like, this is,

he looks at the picture of Lee Junon Lee. This is my wife and he looks at the picture. You're rich man? Looks at her. And then the magic, to his point,

He looks at Karen and she goes, oh, okay. There's no way I believe, like, and you can tell there's no way I believe that that's actually his wife. But, like, it's just like they play off each other so well, especially for like the first episode of a show. I think we are, like, again, this is very early,

but this is like a lot of fun in a world that's like very dark and very dower and, like, bad things are happening all the time. Robbie's like, bro, do you see outside Silverman's got this place? in a freaking chokehold, whereas a spider, like, we could, like, sit in there and just do that for an hour. But it's really, like, a world that's, like, building and budding, and I'm really excited to see how it grows.

Uh, question for you. Was Nick Cage wrong to take a picture of that stamp guy? Of course not. That's funny. That's part of the... Don't take a picture of him. That's part of the... He's in his own home.

That's part of the Bugs Bunny stuff, man, where he's just, like... That's like just a little gag. Like, that's crazy. That's like just a little fun thing. I'm going to invade this man's space. He's a private eye. All he does is invading. Yeah, I mean, he was a private eye.

He wouldn't hide to take pictures of this motherfucker. Yeah. Motherfugher's putting stamps on this shit. He's going, he's living his own life. Yeah. Mine in his own business. Living his own life. It's funny.

Look, listen. Send it himself. Clearly. Guys, it is 2026. We are getting surveilled all the time. People are taking pictures of it. This is like the worst fucking explanation slash defense of anything that we've ever had on this show.

So because everybody is being, this shit is on Amazon. So the fact that this is on Amazon. this is on a fucking, I don't know what I'm allergic to it today by the way, because this is on Amazon, right? This is all the place that knows how much toilet paper we're using. Oh, yeah.

It knows all kinds of different shit, right? That don't give them the right to go. To look at all, yeah. If I'm looking up the steps and put them on my naked body, and that's crazy. I'm allowed to do that in my home. I just unencumbered. It's a funny little bit.

I'm not mad at them. I'm not mad at them. Okay. So, in addition to the entire cast, You have the character of Ben Riley himself, which of course is the play on the name of the Scarlet Spider that you guys had to be around, you might have been, around for the Ben Riley discourse in the 90s.

The clone. It was so insane. What a time, guys. If you guys don't know, Ben Riley was introduced as like a new Spider-Man, but like a rebooted Spider-Man that was a clone of Spider-Man, and I don't want to tell you guys, I want to break the news, but it did not fucking go well.

It was like, it was probably the first, like, this is the dumbest thing that the Spider-Man writers have ever done. Was it like the new Coke of Spider-Man? It's like the ending of the comics. It was exactly the new Coke of Spider-Man. Jomi, the fucking explainer is back. If you guys don't remember what happened with New Coke, Coke changed their fucking package, their recipe in the 80s. We all went out and got New Coke and we were like, this sucks. I don't know about this shit.

Like, you know what I'm like, I don't know. We drank out new Coke, new Coke. The packages everywhere. We was in Texas. We were going to get to the... Nah, I didn't know. Ben Riley was the new Coke of Spider-Man. And the character got permanently benched in a way.

Or don't we see the character anymore. It was like one of those comic book experiments that really went in the junk pile of comics history. It was dumb because to me, again, I was a kid. I didn't quite care about the discourse around what Marvel Comics was doing, but I thought that was one of the coolest Spider-Man costumes I'd ever seen. It's like one of the best fits,

like, yeah, the hoodie on, it was like the red tights and then like the power bands on his wrists. I thought it was great. I think it's also one of those things where in the moment, people hate it. They're like, this is whack, whatever. And then you just wait five to ten years. Some people go, hey man, you know what was really cool?

Scarlet Spider, Ben Riley, the clone stuff. Because that's where I learned, I learned about Ben Riley and Scarlet Fighter. People were like, man, I was underrated, this and that. And I was like, okay, cool. All right, I'll check this out. And then you talk to people that are like, nah, this was weak. This was whack. Nobody liked this stuff.

Hated it. I mean, I wouldn't say that during the time I actually hated the way that it went. I just think that there was a thought that what we wanted, and this even went on, even when we got into the Ultimates, you know. the thought was that what we wanted was those old characters to go away and new interpretations of all of this stuff.

Well, I think people wanted were fresh new stories and adventures for their characters. But then we saw that there's a little bit of both because Miles Morales came along and was after a sort of contentious time was able to become a really beloved iteration of Spider-Man.

So back to the fact that this character seems to be Ben Riley from all of those different types So Multiversal Ben Riley from the things that you guys were talking about, all that stuff. But has a history that is directly, is interesting, directly tied to Spider-Man lore, but at the same time, pretty unique. He learned great power, great responsibility, seems from his beloved deceased wife. And that led to him being a superhero, and he has ceased to be a superhero, the spider, because of the loss of his life, which is a blending of a lot of different aspects of the Spider-Man lore that we know. have a question for both of you.

It's called Spider-Nirre. This episode, there's, like, a lot of spot, like, what, two, three minutes of him, Spiter and, like, giving us a montage, then he swings at the end. There's not a bunch of Spiter, there's a ton of noir. You think they did that on purpose to get, put us into that universe, like, to let us know, like, you might see the spider, but this is really about the Nour aspect of the show.

Interesting question. I think that in order for the show to work, you have to buy the noir stuff almost more than you buy the spider stuff and they have to ration to you the use of his powers. But they also have to remind you that you are living in the world with powered individuals.

That's what I would say. And you don't want to waste Nicholas Cage, honestly. Like, not to say that it's going to be all just him in a mask or him being voiced by somebody and him just running around being the Spider-Man. But to know that you have Nicholas Cage at your disposal to

kind of chew scenery with with really good casts of characters as a detective in and of itself and he just so happens to be a superhero, I think that's a better way to lean into that story. Know that you have Nicholas Cage first and then a superhero second. And for a lot of these noir classics,

your lead detective is a mystery. This hard-boiled detective is a mystery as well. And part of the goal of any of these stories is to solve the mystery. mystery of the lead. Like you in, you know, Who frame Roger Rabbit? If you look at the lead,

you know, a tune killed his brother. Mm-hmm. Right? But then we find out, part of the mystery is finding out that the judge is the tune.

At the same time, finding out the mystery is the mystery of the origin of this guy. Yeah. This is the tune that killed his brother. Yes. So if most superheroes

are fully formed, they have an origin story. So we know why they're doing what they're doing, right? This show kind of adds an extra dimension by pulling him away from that and letting us get to, like, what is really making him tick. And so we don't have to watch the spider be a detective.

We can watch a man be a detective that sometimes drifts into the spider. And then at some point, he'll figure a shit out, he'll become the spider, and maybe we find out that his wife's death was maybe a little bit of a bigger deal than what he even thought that it was. maybe we find out the mystery

or that there is a mystery behind his wife's desk. Who knows where we're going to go. But we have to go there with the Ben Riley character and not with the spider character or else you kind of subvert the whole deal with a little bit.

Start a Spider-Man show or a series really he's not putting the mask down and saying, guys, I'm done. Never coming back. Also, finished. Alergic to money. Keep staying broke.

Keeps turning down money. Not paying Janet. Don't like that. My funny thing is because he's like $10 a day and I know it's the depression but like, dang, man, money's come a long way. Money's come a long way. You sound like that.

You sound like Jeff Vesos. Man, you're really a... When Robert E, Robertson, he's walking up the staircase, hamburgers, $25. Bro, you can't get a, you can't get a contract for less than $6. But again, another great way to see his, like, kind of like slapstick humor. When he puts that dime or that quarter down on the bar

to pay for the drink and the bartender just, like, does nothing. and then he just indignantly, it's like, another one. How much do you guys think $10 a day converted to in the Great Depression? And that's like 1930s, 1930s? Yeah, late 19. That's like, I got to say that that's got to be like $50 to $100. $200.

Jesus Christ. It's $200 a day? $10 was $200. $10 a day during the oppression, the oppression. We're still in it. Me and Jomey still in the oppression. Why are we shaking on that? Why are we shaking on the fact that we're...

See, this was... This niggas problems right here. Like, look, why are we shaking on that? Like, we shouldn't be shaking on that. Because we should be shaking on the fact that... It's solidarity. We have to... We had to stick together.

Yeah, you could... If you could be happy... You could be happy. You can easily sit here and say, yeah, man, it's the oppression, whatever, and be down about it. But we both know that there's a way out. Yeah, we should be doing that. Okay.

We can get out of there. Yeah, so... Ten dollars was $200. $10 a day. was $200 a day. I don't see. You can get a little bit more. So now like 200 is that he demanded.

So when he was asking old boy for 20 grand. For 200 plus expenses. Plus expense? Oh my God. That's nuts. Okay, so we have three different stories going as well. We have the story of Silverman who seems to be our big bad and everything that he's got going on,

burned down house, trying to figure out who is coming for him. Spider-N-War kind of stumbles into that story through another detective that meets his untimely end. We then have another story, which is who hired us, why we were hired, why the ugly gentleman hired us to find out. Definitely not his wife. Definitely not his wife. Into a situation with the mayor.

What's going on there? And these stories seem to be all intertwined. And then once again, we have the mystery of our lead, Ben Riley. And what's going on with him? Will he become the spider again? Why he is out of the game, all kinds of things. What's also like, Flint Marco, too. Flip Marco as well.

Because when they introduced him as Flitmark, I'm like, oh, that's same. Hey, in the color version, you know, he's got the brown and the green. I'm like, oh, that's a nice little nod. And then he starts turning into sand. And I'm like, okay. Painfully, it seems. Yeah, they're actually doing it. You know, what does that mean?

And then Kat Hardy comes back and it's like, leave him alone, this and this. Like, what does she know about him and his sand issues? Like, all that stuff. Him and his sand issues. His sand issues. I mean, that's like a nice way to put it. Flit Marco does have sand issues.

Yeah, I mean, kind of. So, you know, that's interesting. All the other Spider-Man adjacent characters that are in this seem to play roles that are true to who they are in the comic book, but also very, very unique and useful to this particular story. Yeah. I wonder if I'm just going to call my shot. Let's see if I'm wrong.

I promise. Cat Hardy, that's Black Cat. Right, Felichard. Philege. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mentioned to see, like, do they do the thing that they always do when you put Spider-Man and Black Cat together? Like, I think they're probably going to have a romance. But is she going to be the person where he's like, no, you got to do the right thing.

And she's like, no, actually, I'm going to do the wrong thing. I'm going to kill. I'm a steal. I'm going to do all this. Because in this universe, it kind of seems like Ben really don't really worry about all that, like, righteous, ignatious stuff, like most Spider-Man. No. He's not like, don't kill or don't. don't do this. Like he just let a guy get shot.

He's wayward a bit. Like he doesn't really care except if it's about the case and not even really about the money. Right. And so I'm interested to see like what, I don't say Spider-Man with no morals. I think that's far. But a smarter man that isn't like we have to save every life

anybody who dies and all this. Like a Spider-Ban with looser morals than normal deals in this particular universe. Have there been animals in this studio? No. Tidal episode. Spider-Man New War, also Van Hatte.

Also Van's Allerge's attack. What is happening right now? I'm back. Okay, I'm back. So, Cat Hardy, Black Cat, Robbie Robertson, obviously a mainstay from the Spider-Man universe. Love that. Depression.

Some brothers in that bitch. Love that shit. Is there racism in this, New York? It doesn't seem like it. Yeah. It doesn't seem like there's any racism. It seems like everybody's pretty much together. I mean, which is what you want in an ideal society.

but we got to be real to real life, you know? So you wanted them, you wanted Robbie Robinson to be up? Maybe he will be. Well, maybe he'll be oppressed. Maybe that's how you like it. Right. Apparently, that's how we like it. We as well. We just shook hands on oppression.

We didn't shake hands on oppression. This is what's wrong with us. That's not what happened again. You literally said the oppression and then you dapped it. I want to reiterate. It's just show solidarity. That made Steve's heart smile. He's like, yeah, they like it.

It would be like wildly out of character for a show, like, maybe like five episodes in to just be, like, blatantly racist after being seemingly... Man, that would be so crazy if in this show... Like... It was like...

They show up somewhere... They show up somewhere. Silverman, they see Silver Man is like, yeah, see you brought your nigger with you. I'm like, come on. And everybody's like, whoa. Whoa. What the fuck is going on?

Literally everybody in the room is like, whoa! Even a hitchword are like, yo, bro. Hey, hey, hey, chill. Chill, dog. What the fuck you all? Bad guys. They're not monsters. A hard, brother?

Like, what the fuck are you talking? Whoa. Rob is like, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, yo, spot my phone, man. I didn't know he was going to say that. It, like, completely derails the episode. That's all me, my pet. That's actually, that's a really funny bit.

It's just like, the worst person, like, says the N-word or whatever. And then people are like, whoa. I know he was murdering babies and stuff, but I didn't know. Yeah, like, hey, draw the line somewhere. I got to. Too much. Silver Main, the builder. Now.

He posted bond. It's free speech. It can't be let out. Free speech. I hope they speech this shit out you in that bitch. I hope they speech this shit. The man, look, I don't even want to... You got to talk?

Because even that, it's kind of like, oh, you're going to go into prisons. It's going to be going to jail. That's racist, too. Let's see. We can't escape. What kind of world are we living? That's racist too.

Like, yeah, we can't wait until you get... Oh, shit. Well, we can't really say that because then we... Yeah. The world's upside down, man. It's like, we want you to go, but then we can't admit. But then, yeah, the reason why we're in the mass incarceration the whole thing. So if you're going to do something, you know, we can't, and then we can't, we can't be woke because we can't, we don't want to.

Is this how woke James Bond begins? Yeah, see, that's the problem with what level of toxicity. And we will not tolerate that. A level of toxicity. The level of toxicity is we want you to go to jail because, but we don't want, we can't say that it's niggas in the jail that's going to do this too. And we don't want, we can't also

be like we want something too bad on some odd shit to happen because we're not in favor of that. No. So you don't want to placate that type of in a jam. It's tough. It is tough. God forbid we high five though. God forbid to see that we got to set a level

of toxicity. Toxicity level. Charles gets back. We'll talk about like what the level should be on a case-by-case basis of toxicity. So we've replaced misogynist bond with blatantly racist bomb. Yeah. I think it's not. No, no.

No. Hell, nah. Wait, wait, wait. Racist bond would be one of the worst things that ever came out of bond. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I just, let's be very clear. I don't think, is racist.

Can you think, think, but racist bond would be funny. Racist bond. Race is funny. It's Bond. James Bond. Digger. I just, I just perfectly picture Daniel Craig saying that.

Where is this James Bond can't work? You can't, like, shaking a stern. Racism, misogyny, both bad. Both bad. We're not, we're not on the phone. We're not compared either. No false equivalency. They're both bad.

However. It would be funny if Bond came back to being Bond just because they made the Black Lady 007. He was like, he's like, what? Now, see what happened with it? And then I see, like, 2020 happens? They're like, hey, we got to, you know, so we're going to make a lot.

the first black James Bond. She's going to be a woman. We're going to tick all the boxes. Boom. Whoa. 2024 come around. Trump get elected again. Like, actually.

Back to us. I'm back. It's not happening. It's not like that. So some interesting spider stuff happening. Yeah. We'll talk about a couple of scenes. So the scene where he's got to go up to the top of the hotel.

I thought that he was going to wall crawl. Very funny. Very funny. He does not wall crawl. He takes a picture of a dude. But he takes the fire escape. Yeah. But I thought when he looked up...

And he's winded. I thought, yeah. When he looked up, I thought that he was going to wall crawl. And he does not use his powers in this episode besides saving her from getting smacked up by the mayor, Shabberus. And also when he himself is about to die. It's literally like a last second resort.

And it's more so like you could see him, when he's falling off that building, you can see him thinking about it. Like he has to reluctantly save himself. like and I find that very interesting because like he kind of wishes it all were over in that instant and he's like no I got to keep going and then he just decides to save himself whatever happened between him and his girl because even Robbie was like look dude streets are crazy like we need you right now we need spot a man right now he's like nah bro this is like that part of my life is behind

me and so to your point like it's literally a last second thing where if he's either saving him saving a woman from getting harassed by a man, orderly save his own life. Right. Like he, even in the fight, he didn't use no webs, he didn't do no crazy flips or anything that we expect Spider-Man to do. He was just punching, ducking, moving.

And he's had lines like that at the bar where he, like, I'm paraphrasing here, but our Finn Fatal is just like, well, what makes you you sleep at night or what makes you keeps you going? And he's like, I kind of wish that like a little bit of me kind of thinks that I could end it all. I'm a coward. Yeah, and I'm a coward.

And like the idea that this is where our hero begins in this story is very interesting to me. To know that he's brought not exactly low, but like in a place of stasis, emotional and like physical stasis is a very, very interesting place for us to begin. Makes you wonder why he's a coward. Yeah. Obviously he wasn't always, right? Or even maybe he's just saying that to absolve himself of what he should be doing. which is using his powers to help people. Instead, he's doing something else.

He is not using his powers at all. He's engaged into an industry where he gets to see the worst of humanity, which is being a private detective. He is spending his time, not even, the PI in this situation is always, ex-cops, somebody, whatever, whatever, that wants use whatever skills they have

for some noble endeavor. But now the most selfish thing they can do is use those same skills to peek into people's lives, to be a de facto kind of toothless crime fighter. But it's always for them. And it's always reluctant, but for like a high price,

which is why characters in those types of noirs can be manipulated by money. They can be sent on dummy missions for money. They can be thrown off the track for money because all they care about is money. Yeah. So to go from a hero to a private investigator that's going out there, shout out to all the private investigators out there.

Leave me the fuck alone. But to go to that, says a lot about the- Wait, are you getting hit up by PIs? See people who follow you with the camera? I'll tell you all straight up. Y'all don't know some of the stuff I know. Oh, you're, oh. Yeah, I don't know what the PIs out here do, man.

Y'all know about the wiretapping of Hollywood stars that's happening and all of that stuff. You guys don't know. There's been sheriffs around here that have had people wiretapped and all of that stuff. I don't know some of the stuff I know, man, with the PIs and-I's in the My question, you know some things, clearly. But has there ever been like a sort of like, has that come back around to you to be like, okay, maybe you're being tapped? Maybe you're being followed. Maybe you're being looked into just because of the stuff you know.

No, because I can spot a tail. You know what I'm saying? Oh, you can spot a tail. Have you been tail before? Yeah, I've been tail before. So you're better than the other dude. Because when he left the office and the other guy followed them all the way to the burnt house. Like 20 feet behind him the entire time

He had no idea, but you would know. You would have spotted them. No, I wouldn't have spot him at all. I can't spot a tail at all. I have been following and I never saw it. Would you also employ street orphans like Nicholas Cage does to give him a dime every time to... I'm so glad you brought that up.

The use of... I just got to say it the way... The use of orphans in Nour's. I like a scrappy little orphan kid. and just like, tell me, tell me what happens. Hey, dames, huh? I'm like, go to school. Dames, huh?

Hey, yo, wait, wait, wait, what's going on with these broads? I bet you they tested him smoking a cigarette. And they said, take it out. You can't have a kid smoking a cigarette. I'm like, I know 12-year-olds would be smoking in the 30s. Because, like, even Dick Tracy, remember the kid and Dick Tracy? No. You never saw the Dick Tracy movie with the kid in there?

With Madonna? No. When do we eat? Yeah. You never saw that? It's a wild movie. It's not good. It's not good.

I don't even watch a Dick Vine show. Oh, that's true. Yeah. But you never saw a dig trade. So anyway, there's always little kids like little newsy type kids with a hat. A little broad. Like, you've been to be the archetype yet. Yeah. So, like, they, you know, that wasn't the same kid, though, right?

No, no, no. They were two different kids. Yeah. Two different kids. It's the depression. Yeah. So there's a lot of kids out there trying to like. To know that he's got a network of orphans working for him.

I feel like he, yeah, I feel like he should be in school, though. You ever see that video of kids that were like disappointed at Babe Ruth? Did you see that on Twitter? No. Disappointed at Babe Ruth? So there was this group of kids. that in New York, it's like a real old school video of kids talking about how they feel about Babe Ruth

when Babe Ruth was coming to the end of his career. I think the Yankees had just trained to Bay Ruth to Boston. Like the late 40s? Like the late 40s. When he was leaving the Yankees. Okay, okay. They traded him to Boston, not the Red Sox, but I think like the Boston Braves.

And they were asking kids how they felt about it. And a bunch of these little punk turncoat New Yorkers were shitting on Babe Ruth. a black man, right? Where, like, a bunch of these kids were shitting on baby, bro. Yeah, it was a couple of them were like, it's okay if babe they're like, hey, babe, but all

of them, all of them, all of them looked like they were at least 41 years old. Yeah, like they've been working the docks since they were five years old. Yeah, we changed labor laws. Yeah, bro, all of these kids was in the mill, but that's kind of what I see what I see this. Okay. Tough. So,

before we get off of the episode, we know that there are dueling mysteries happening we know that we have some standout characters but I do want to talk about this before we leave before we get off this episode and talk a little bit more about different versions of Spider-Man the reason to watch this show is one big reason

Nicholas Cage Oh my God Like Nicholas Cage over the last 10 years has found himself as a performer. And let me tell you why I say over the last 10 years. So Nicholas Cage went to the wilderness. Now, the Nicholas Cage that I knew and grew up with

was always this kind of daring, risk-taking performer that always loved an off-kilted role. I first fell in love with Nicholas Cage in the movie called Raisin Arizona, which I'm sure a lot of the people that watch this podcast or listen to this podcast have seen. It's a Korn Brothers movie. It's an absurdist comedy about Nicholas Cage and family

and all of that stuff. But then he goes into Hollywood and makes his bones as one of the most dependable performers there is, like bona fide A-lister with all of the A-list credentials. Leaving Las Vegas. Leaving Las Vegas, that's the Academy Award.

Conair, that's the big action hit. The Rock, another big action hit. He comes back, he's got comedic chops. Moonstruck. Moonstruck is before them, but yeah, he does smaller films like Matchstick men. where you can put Nicholas Cage anywhere and Nicholas Cage can shine but he's always always

face off. Another weird role. He's always, always, always doing off-kilter weird stuff that somehow didn't make sense for him. You're going to say something? Right, but there's also there's a deep respect that I have for him

kind of as a performer because there isn't an ironic bone in his body when it comes to any role that he does because there's also a big, big, long-winded, like, trash movie era of Nicholas Cage's career because, like, he notoriously had a lot of money problems because of falling out with, like, a manager. And so he took on, like, a lot of these, like, trashy video on-demand roles that were, like, really not good movies at all.

But he's been interviewed about them past, and they're like, why did you, like, what did you, like, what did you, like, think about your performances? Like, because a lot of people would phone those performances in. It's like, I took it just as seriously as every role I've ever taken. That's the point. That's it. Like a lot of issues. Let's calm down about National Treasure.

National Treasure is fine. It's a good movie. You guys, you know, I love, like The Avengers and stuff. Yeah. You know, going to the movies, I was, brother, when National Treasure 2 was coming out, that was my MCU. Book of Secrets. That was my MCU before, bro.

I was losing sleep over it, bro. I was having dreams, bro. But then he does movies, like, knowing is actually not like a bad movie, right? Like, he does a... Sorcercercerer's Apprentice, I remember? Like, these types of films start to kind of... Ghost Rider? Like, Ghost Rider was, the first Ghost Rider?

The first Ghost Rider? was actually a semi-serious attempt to make that character viable on the big screen. The first ghost rider was kind of a semi-serious attempt at that. But it's cool, though. Second Ghost Rider is like kind of bullshit. And then so, but we start to get into like to seize points all of these different movies.

But in doing these films, he actually finds what we want from Nicholas Cage as a performer. We want him to be seriously unsurious to your point. And he is so good at. doing that. He's also one of the only performers of his ilk that is willing to do it because it is such a big risk when you do that.

That's why this particular role, this particular show, that is seriously unserious, it's perfect for him. And in the first episode, he shines. I'm also, like, genuinely curious as to why we haven't, like, we as, like, the populace haven't gotten sick of that Nicholas Cage-Stick.

Because, like, I personally haven't at all. But you'd think that if any actor any other actor that would have been more unsurious like that, we wouldn't have tolerated that wacky goofiness from anybody that took themselves that seriously. Like they've found the, like, we've also found Nicholas Cage at the right point in his life that we accept almost everything that he does as earnest.

Would you say the turning point is the unverbal weight of massive talent the movie he did with Pedro Pascal? It's one of them, but like they're in that cornucopia of Nicholas Cage performances, there are several movies that, like, were cool, weird, actual, real types of films. Like, he was making a lot of movies that were fucking crazy, right? Oh, fuck, adaptation. I forgot about adaptation.

That's before. He's still kind of in his adaptation. But he's had so many, like, eras and so many, like, different hats that he's worn, all with the same level of earnestness. So we can go from 2007, Ghost Rider, Next, National Treasure Book of Seventh. secrets. Bangkok Dangerous, Knowing, G-Force, Bad Lieutenant, Port of Called New Orleans.

Great movie. Astroboy, Kickass, the Sorcercer's Apprentice, Seasons of the Witch, drive angry, seeking justice, trespass, ghostwriters, spirit, How many years have we covered just now? This is only like two years. This is from 07 to 2011. Okay.

Then you start to get into like a thousand words, stolen, can't stand you. Crudes, the frozen ground, Joe, rage, outcast, left behind, dying of the light, the runner, pay the ghost. Left behind is, is one of the lows there. Right.

Right. Because like left behind is him rebooting, uh, basically, uh, left behind series, like all of that in time, stuff like that. Left behind is when you start to go at this point, Nicholas Cage will do pretty much anything. And then you get, uh, like, you know, this is like, 20, 22. He's done like, obviously the Spider-Man joints. Unbearable weight of massive talent comes out in 2022.

and then he follows that up with a couple of movies. He's in the flash. And he's in Renfield. But then at 2024, long legs. People like long legs. Oh, I'm saying. Oh, yeah. By that point, though, he locked in.

Yeah, by that point, we had an understanding of, like, what kind of ride we're on with Nicholas Cage at this particular point in his career. And now with this role, we get to a spot where all of that has manifested itself into him being at the perfect spot to play this and play. in a way that we really accepted. It's been a really, really interesting career from him and the type of career that you do not see

from people who reached the heights that he got to. Like this type of longevity to stay, like this is something that, for example, somebody like John Travolta hasn't been able to do. No. He hasn't been able to like, even though John, you see the look now. You see the look now.

Somebody like John Travolta hasn't been able to kind of do this time after time. You turned into the skin. Exactly. Steve, you had something you wanted to get into with the Spider-Man on the small screen. I think this is very interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Like, based on all of the multiple characters that we've seen in the Spider-Verse and this new iteration of Spider-Noir, I thought that we could probably run through sort of the things that we would like to see on the small screen that we think that could have a good adaptation for the different Spider-people.

Because obviously, Spider-Man, that's not going to the small screen anytime. That's not going to be... They'll animate. Animated, sure, but live action, anything? That's served up for the big time. But I liked a lot of the different iterations that Spider-Man has been on, and I think that we can talk about some of the great sort of alts.

So you got 29-9, Spider- Punk, Spider-Man, India, and Silk. Is there anybody else that we're leaving out? Like Stacy? I mean, yeah, Spider-Gwen, of course. Spider-Gwen. We can see. What about Miles himself? No, Miles is big time now.

Miles Big time. Miles Big time. Okay. I think, like, if you're going to make, like, we're talking specifically about, like, live-action TV shows for Spider-Win. of people. Yeah. Because if it's animated,

they're usually going to incorporate a lot of the spider people. And if it's for live action, it is Peter Parker by himself alone. You may be, future we might get miles. Right. But right now,

it's Peter Parker only. And so if we want to do a live action of any of these characters from the Spadaverse, where you want to look at, like, it's probably two-bees, probably in the same vein of a Spider-N-Wan. So my Spider-Punk pitch,

do you think Kaluya is signing on to this? he's not doing nothing else Oh Daniel Culey I think he's doing his own thing Yeah he's not gonna do anything on TV though Now you don't think so Nah Nick I guess Nick

He would do something He would do something elevated on television I think Probably Like I think he would do something elevated On television It's something that like obviously he would do TV

What are he doing the Barney thing though? Like but like I don't know that he would do I don't know that he would do that But I could be wrong I could be wrong Like it seems like I mean But Oscar Isaac

back and do 29-9? Listen, after Moon Night, I don't know. Maybe things are on the table. Maybe things are on the table. I don't know. I don't know.

I was with you, though, like with Oscar Isaac, I think the Moon Night, the Moon Night thing changed the way I looked at him because he loves being on television. I mean, yeah, he's got beef.

He's got all of these great HBO shows. Yeah, he actually likes being on television. A lot of these, let me not be so hasty with Daniel Kululia, because I think that with the way things are right now in the industry, think a lot of these people don't mind being on in front of people like yeah

because like you'd think that the A-lister's of the world like the Nicole Kidman's they've been she's been on a TV run lately we get big little big little live three back man a different point different point of her career than Daniel right exactly not in like the exact Nick Case thing but like you could like at that point but if anything

could be prestige and sold like anybody's still kind of on the table that is true it also depends on like what it is that we're talking about I mean you can sell somebody thing maybe not you can sell somebody on the prestige aspect of Spider-punk that you could probably get to do it. Maybe it was like a cool

like fucking really fucked up type of deal. He was in on it. Might be a tough sell. But look, my favorite out of all of these guys was Spider-Man India. Yeah. I would love to see a Spider-Man India show. He was really, really cool. He was so fun. I mean, they have, obviously, they have the bit

with the Chai-T and all that stuff, but legitimately that character is so much fun. It's incredibly fun. And to think of like a sort of like, not like an alt history, but like an alternate world, India where it's this massive utopia of super tall buildings and like infinite amounts of like urban density that he can swing around and like have an amazing time. I think that's the pure fun side. I think the like Blade Runner-esque 2099 thing, that's a bit more self-serious that I think that I could probably get. if not an Oscar Isaac probably a bit more of like an elevated

star to do. I think Spider-Man India is just a blank canvas of infinite possibilities. 299 is the that's the one with the least amount of resistance to getting into it. Sure. Probably selling it, making it, you know,

299 is the one where you could legitimately launch a whole fucking universe out of it if you got it right. Yeah. I'm feeling like, you know, altered carbon, but just like a little bit better. Yeah.

Love death and robots. Okay, so that's like an animated bit. And that's more of like an anthology thing. But you can make a lot of things happen with that. I'll tell you something, though. Here's the thing about 2099. That's an expensive show. It is an expensive show.

Like, that's an expensive show. This show, noir, I'm sure it has a good budget, but it doesn't seem as expensive. I think it's one of the most expensive TV shows they've ever made. Noir? Noir? Really? Oh.

Yeah. It's really not on the screen. I mean, I guess everything is sets its period. So I could see that. I'll tell you what's on the screen, clearly being shot in L.A. Because they are not hiding the fact that this is shot in L.A. at all. I wasn't going to say that because I like the show on being nice about it.

No, yeah, no. No, it's great. But they literally have like two L.A. theaters that are like well-known. God. What? The live action Spider-Douard television series on Amazon video and MGM plus cost nearly 400 million to produce. What?

That can't be right. There's no way. We got to double tap that. I don't know if that's, That's $400 million. Because if so, they just burned a bunch of money. See, no, because what happened was... Maybe that's getting Nick.

Maybe that's getting Nick. See, because you know how back in the day, $10 is not $200? Right. Maybe they did it reverse. Right. And so really they only spent... So $400 million is really just like $30 million. Yeah, that's really what it is.

Golly, $400 million? Man, shout out to Amazon, man. Yeah, they're really just setting mountains of money on fire. That's got to be a rumor. That can't be right. $400 million is nuts. I mean, look... I can believe it and I also can't.

TV's getting crazy. I would have looked at it and thought, but we haven't gotten that deep between. We're only covering the pilot. I would have looked at it and thought this was a show where they were able to kind of juggle the price a little bit and make it for a quarter of that maybe like $150 million. Yeah, it seems like a reasonably priced TV show.

Something like that. But no, I mean. I thought, I knew it was expensive for 400 men. No way. Well, here's the thing. Like, not for a lack of. of quality storytelling, am I not wasting money? Because this is really, really fun.

I mean, look, it's Amazon. They can spend as much money as they want. Yeah. This is now, though, if we're to believe what we're reading right now, this is the most expensive Spider-Man project ever. This costs more than any individual Spider-Man movie. It is on a streamer. It cannot make back the 1.5.

to $1 billion at the rest of these movies. I think the most, the Spider-Man movies that have made the least amount of money are probably those Toby McGuire ones. It's like $850 million. But that's only to scale because of the time that they were in. But then the third one I might have made the most might have come in right under a...

So you're gonna, you get in the... This is... This is... Eight episodes for $400 million is quite a lot of belief. That's Game of Thrones money. Like, why? Like, what do you think the belief in the show is, like, what's surrounding that?

I think it's the belief in the Spider-Man IP, really, because that says solid gold, like, blue-chip stock of a property that you could ever have. Like, if you're making anything Spider-Man, people will watch it. Regardless of how good it is. Like, people showed out for a lot of those Spider-Man movies that we didn't even like. Like, Venom, you got three of those. They had a lot of time to make other Spider-Man movies, and they're still making spin-off stuff of Spider-Man, and it's still making bank.

Right. So the economies of streaming aside, I mean, the investment is sound. Well, also you have to consider something else. I want to weigh people down with the business of this is that to your point, Amazon or is it, MGM has a deal, or MGM owns it. But Amazon slash MGM has a deal with Sony to produce this Spider-Man stuff. Correct. To produce Spider-Man stuff.

on their platform that won't exist on Disney Plus or anything like that. Correct. So this is them penetrating this market and hoping that they can draw people in. If that's the case, some of the characters that we just saw,

those shows are going to have to be on to make this worth it. This has to be an entire world because you wouldn't invest this much money if you weren't trying to kick things off in a really grand way. Okay. So the...

Actually, it's just funny. What did you guys think was the... the least performing live action Spider-Man movie. The lowest performing? Because both of the, um, we thought it, both of the animated ones are the lowest.

Maybe ASM-2? Spider-Man 2. But that made 7009 million. Amazing Spider-Man 2. Yeah. Okay. And that's the lowest. That's the lowest.

Right. Amazing Spider-Man, uh, the first one, uh, one. 758 million. Okay. Spider-Man 2. This is crazy. Spider-Man 2, 795 million. Spider-Man 1, 822 million.

Spider-Man Homecoming, 878 million. Right. Spider-Man 3 is the third highest grossing Spider-Movie of all time, and it made $800,000, $895 million. And then the rest of the Toby McGuire, or the, uh... Far-from-Home made... Far-from-home made... A Billy 1.1 billion. No-A-home-made, almost made two.

Right. Interesting. Interesting. I mean... But I mean, that just tells you that with Spider-Man your return is going to be

crazy. Crazy. With Spider-Man noir, I think this is probably a play. It's the first major, it's one of the first major franchise releases on MGM Plus. It's still a relatively new streaming service.

It's fascinating. So it's like, it's a really interesting suite. I don't want to, you know, we're talking about Spider-N-War, but this conversation leads me into Spider-Man coming

in the, in July, right? July 31st, before. Again, a brand new Spider-Man. That movie gotta make crazy bank. If you had to guess, I know, a brand-new day? Yeah.

That's going to be a $2 billion movie. I know we did over under... You say $2 billion? I know we did over under the beginning of the year. It's the least amount of money, I feel like that movie could possibly make us about $1.7 billion. So you think that's in, like, the top five earners this year? Yes.

I mean, I think it has to me just because, like, of the popularity of the character and... thing. Like, I was going to say, do you, do you think, like we did over and under's beginning of the year, do you think this passes, this goes past two? You say yes. No Way Home did it, 1.9. I don't know if it touches No Way Home.

This one, you know, it don't got Toby and Andrew and stuff. I think if it has to be close, I think it's going to get there. I think it's, yeah. If you said, like, if the line is like 1.75. 1.75 is the line. But I think this movie, especially with some of the word of mouth. the word of mouth. Some of the earliest,

if the movies as good as people are saying it's going to be, I think this movie could get to two million dollars. If it's genuinely good, like, and there's no like,

maybe like two or three weeks later, like no way home, like, eh, that actually wasn't that great. Type of attitude, then yeah, probably. I don't even really think about it,

man, the lowest live actors about it movie, 700 million. You're guaranteed. Yeah. A success. And that's the thing. The level of investment

to just get a brand new thing on a network that does not have it except yours. I guess it makes sense. you throw that kind of money around. Wow. I bet a lot of it's licensing.

I bet a lot of it's like it's a lot of... Which, yeah, well, to bring it back to Spider-N-Rourd, which is why you probably like, if they don't, if anybody going, we're going to go to theater and watch Spider-Man no matter what, clearly, right? So if you're making a Spider-Man TV show, you might as sort of throw all the bread at it

because what you've talked to, what the box officers talk to is that people go watch Spider-Man regardless. The question is, and we can leave off on this, because I am just fucking going crazy. I don't know what the fuck is happening. The question is,

Will the audiences view this as a Spider-Bad TV show? I hope so. I mean, yes. I certainly hope so. I think that this is going to be something that everybody's going to like, and I think enough people should be watching, because for Amazon, a post-boys era, people are going to want to clamor onto something,

like live-action superhero in a meaningful way. Yeah. Like, we're not going to get another season of Cape Crusader that's going to set the world on fire anytime soon. Hey, we're getting My Ventures Superman, though. That's not Amazon, though. But again, like, I think getting that on the map, that can probably move the needle for this. I think this is really great. I'm going to be watching the entire season. I don't know. I'm excited about it. I'll lock in, obviously. All right. We're going to come back and give you guys more Spider-Man

Noir. We don't know how many. I know that you guys have all the episodes. We only cover the pilot. Maybe we'll finish it. Come back up. And we'll see what Charles thinks if he's even watching or has any clue. Chuck, lock in. Okay, that's enough. Miss you. I love you, Chuck. This week, House of R will be revisiting Tenet as well as during their Spine War Deep dive on Friday, but Match will return to talk about 007

First Light. Maybe we get a racist James Bond. Non-racist edition. Our producers today are Leah Zanaris. Jamie Yukich and Steve Allman. Jomi a dinner on on socials. Hashtag Jomi Private Dick. I think Jomi's dick is public. What I've seen around town.

No. There's some people that are a private dick. then some people that have public things. And Jomey being, Jomey's very public with his dick. I'm not very public with it. It's private. No.

Sure. Oh, I forgot your parents. Listen. Jomey is very, oh, Jomey don't be out here doing. Don't worry. Mr. and Mrs. Diner on. Your Jomey is being a good guy.

Yeah. He's being a good guy. Jombie's level of toxicity is right here where we need it to be. Jomey's being a good guy. I do think that there have been some times in the past where he's maybe been a little too conservative

with the ladies, if I'm being honest. Not a James Bond level of conservative, but, you know. He's laughing because he knows what I mean. I think sometimes Jumby embrace a while, child. This is funny because we can and can't say. Additional production from Arjuna Ram Gapal. You know what? Jomey, take it since you try to out, you try to out Charles on the midnight man face.

Take us out. Take us out. Oh, man. We just did Spider-No-R His girlfriend got set to heaven And if you make it

The name James Bond We do not need Awoke 007 P-DU!