The Ringer-Verse - ‘Star Wars: Tales of the Underworld’ May the Fourth Reactions | Mint Edition

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

To celebrate the 'Star Wars' holiday, Jomi and Steve are joined by Matt James to discuss the adventures of Asajj Ventress in the bite-sized animated series ‘Tales of the Underworld.’ (00:00) Intro (6:00) Spoilers ahead(20:30) The great heist adventure(54:30) Outro Hosts: Jomi Adeniran and Steve AhlmanGuest: Matt JamesProducer: Jonathan KermahAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everyone? I'm Nora Prynciotti. And I'm Nathan Hubbard. And we're coming in like a wrecking ball to announce a brand new series. That's right. It's every single album, Miley Cyrus. Deep dive with us into the career of one of our most creative and confounding pop stars. We're starting, of course, with the best of Hannah Montana. And ending with her brand new album, Something Beautiful, in June. And don't forget about Miley Cyrus and her dead pets. We certainly will not be doing that. So listen now on Spotify or we're all. you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfair radio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner.

Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Hello and welcome back into the ringerverse. Your Nexus feet for all things fandom.

I'm Steve Allman. I'm Jimmy Dinner on. And today we are joined by Ringer, Deputy, Art Lead, and overall, Chris Stap's Porzinger's Assingus assassin. I didn't do nothing. nothing to him. Assassin is crazy. You can't fault me for crimes I haven't done yet.

No, I'm a precog. This is Minority Report. It's Matt James in the house, everybody. Happy to be here again. Appreciate it. Back-to-back mint matches. Yeah. Yeah.

My guy banned on the last one. Did you get a switch to? The pre-order, yeah. Yay. We secured it. We really did. I secured one on the pod last time. So I'm very happy to know that we're going to be waiting

and happening to make up a not significant sum of money. Yeah, yeah. I told you guys, expensive to the company, man, this is content. Y'all not thinking big brain enough. Y'all, y'all, look, open your third eye. We're going to talk about this off the pie.

We'll see. I don't want Daniel to take my switch away. Anyway, though, we are gathered here today not to talk about, you know, Jalen Brunson legacy games, but we're here to talk about Star Wars. You let me know. Okay, yeah, that too. That'll work, too.

Okay, that'll be fine. Is that fine? We can do that. We really did just check with you right. I mean, think about it, though, you've got to be honest. The Knicks versus the Celtics is basically the resistance versus the empire. Is it? Celtics are absolutely the evil empire.

Okay. I think so. I'll push back a little bit because one of them is going to get completely obliterated. Who gives a way? Wife off the face of the universe. And it's my Knicks, unfortunately. No, we hope. Y'all, man, you got to think about it.

This is indoor baby, you know. Listen, I got some bad news for you about what happened. to Cassian and or. Yeah. I don't know how. I've got faith in Carl Wookie Towns. You know what I'm saying? Backel Skywalker Bridges.

You know what I mean? Thank you. Thank you for your support. Jaylen. Jaylenz Skywalker. I believe. I'm here. When Spike Lee gives the Luton speech to Tibbs,

I think that we're activated. Every time I'm on this podcast, it's Star Wars basketball. It really is. Who did you put on your point guard team With the long net, Globchidot? No. Whoa.

No, I was just thinking about this. Yarrio Poof. Yario Pooh. Shout out to our guy. You forgot the poof. I need you in this Celtic series. I need you. We had Quinlan Voss on the team too, right?

He wasn't he power for something? You was? That's right. Yeah, I need Yario Poof. Mitchell Robinson, I need 16 to 12 from you every night. You will not be getting it. Again, if you miss. that basketball draft,

just you should Google Yari-L-Poof to see who we're talking about. We really did send the Google alerts flying for Y'all-R-R-R-R-Poof that day. Look, they needed a center. Okay, you had the height. We did. We needed it. We needed him at the outside, too.

All right. But welcome to MENT Edition. It's the once-a-while podcast about all the fandom that you just can't live without, and sometimes about the Nix. Whenever Matt James is up. But before we get to talk about Star Wars and the offerings that a one Disney Corporation bestowed upon us on May the 4th, coming to you on May the 6th. Let's get to some programming reminders to seeing what we can look forward to.

The words will ever come out of my mouth. Tomorrow, the Midnight Boys are going to be giving you their instant reactions to the next batch of and or episodes. We might start pronouncing names correctly this time. Who knows? Only at will. Don't hurt yourself. We won't try, but we'll try.

But Match is going to be giving you their deep dives onto the last of us from a gamer's perspective, DC and Ben back again, along with House of Arc giving you their deep dives as well. We gave you Last of Us earlier this week. We got Andor, we've got all this coming. We just talked to Thunderbolts director earlier this

week. Jake Shrier, check that out as well. That was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. But where can all of that be found? Jomi Adenoroff? If people are like, yo, how do I keep up with the Ringervverse? Man, I want to know what's going on. Maybe see some clips. See some memes. Get some updates. You can follow us on Twitter, on Facebook. on Instagram and on the tickety talk at ring a verse please it pays the bills brother please i need

these bills to get paid guys guys begging y'all follow please please please though but seriously we have a lot of fun on that side uh dude do you know like bro we keep these these clips keep stacking up brother we keep we keep we keep going platinum man you know what i mean so appreciate y'all for liking for following and for uh you know all the love that you've been showing us it means a lot for real Matt James, anything to promote or declare before we get going? I'm just happy to be here, guys. Of course. I'm just happy, just like the New York Knicks in this series.

I'm just happy to be here. Of course. Wow, man. You got to believe, but you have such faith. You have some faith, please, Matt. I'm very optimistic person except in my, in, except in my basketball in sports life. Right, right, right. Then I'm very cynical.

Well, you came to the right place here. You really, really do. But today, we're going to be talking about Tales from the Underworld. Star Wars' yearly. it seems now, May the 4th offerings, once an anthology series, now a more robust and season long affair.

Now we're going to be talking about a friendly neighborhood spoiler warning for pretty much all of Star Wars, but mainly we're going to be talking about clone wars lore, bad batch lore. If it has a lightsaber in it or a star and or a war, we'll be spoiling it.

So what do we sacrifice? Everything. and a Saad Ventris back story that we'll eventually need to talk about it. We'll get into it. But spoiler warning coming ahead. All right. Let's talk about it.

Tales from the Underworld. A continuation of the anthology series, Tales of the Jedi, Tales of the Empire, and now Tales of the Underworld. Once an anthology series centering around a myriad of characters around a galaxy far, far away,

now seems a bit more focused on one or two characters known to the underworld. Assaz Ventris, we begin our tale. It starts with pretty much a resurrection of our titular anti-hero that we didn't quite know it was dead. So I had a lot of questions as soon as that happened, right?

So it starts with Obi-Wan, who doesn't speak because James Arnold Taylor is too busy being Magneto at this moment. Of course. You know what I mean? Fear, Magneto! Shout out Marvel Rivals. But Quillen-Vos is there. and he's putting her in the water,

I assume on Dathamere. Yeah. Right. Yep. I was like, this is an interesting development. I don't. She was dead?

She was dead, right? French was dead? What happened? And so, you know, like, literally immediately, I'm like, let me pause.

Let me pause. What, what happened? Let's hit the Google real quick. Yeah, let me make sure I didn't miss anything. My immediate reaction was like, how long has it been since I checked in,

on Star Wars. Did I forget like a whole season? That's what I thought. Because the last time I saw her was Bad Batch and she'd come to help out our little home

girl Omega, right? I was like, yo. Raca. Rika. Rika. Rika. I was like, no, it's fine.

Once one person starts. Rika, she can't not. I was sitting, I'm like, yo, I've seen her alive. What happened? So I went to the Googles And it turns out that there was a 2015 novel called The Dark Disciple, which is based on unfinished episodes of Clone Wars.

And essentially, like, Ventrists teamed up with Quinlan Voss, and they fall in love. And then Quinlan goes to the dark side, but then she dies. And it's a whole thing. She brings them back from the dark side, I think? I think so, yeah, yeah. The Wishes of Dathamir basically offer her an ultimatum of just like, join us in the afterlife or sacrifice your... Oh, yes, when they resurrect her, yeah. Arts desire and you can return to the land of living.

Which, I feel like we needed, like, the details on that deal. Like, she basically has to, like, give up her love of Quinlan Voss, right? But we didn't get the specifics of, like, so are we talking like, could we hang his friends? Or, like, if I see him, am I going to just, like, wither into dust? Just by, like, see, like, where become a forced skeleton? Can we just get some more details on what this deal, like the fine print of the deal? I'm a little like she's like afraid to go

even near him it seems Yeah the witches are initially vague But yeah so we have a bit more of a like From this jumping off point A more structured and robust Story centering around Asaj Ventris in the beginning Half of this

Rather than a kind of like anthology series Of just like cherry picking different Like little tiny stories Of different characters Yeah how did we like this? Did we kind of like a bit more of a overarching story approach or did we kind of miss the idea of like seeing different characters and different little snippets? Well, first of all, the whole thing is like thrown off by the fact that we never saw in a show, like the direct preceding events of her death.

Like to have her her death be like completely off camera from any series and then just to jump in like, so she, anyway, so if you didn't read the book, so she died. Not even if you didn't read the book. For some reason. She's dead. She's dead. She's dead. And she brought back to life. Obi-1 sad about it. Quinlan Voss is crying.

I haven't seen that before. Right. It feels like there's some shit I missed, but. I think, but also, and then going back and looking at it, I'm like, you know, we're going to talk about the story of LICO and the coolest droid I've ever seen in a long time. Very cool. But that should have been the tales of the end of the world. We should have seen the dark disciple happen.

That sounds way more interesting than what we got. Yeah, back it up just a little bit more. Yeah. And I would have loved to see that. If we would see... Let's make those eight episodes that we never made. Right?

Like, let's just do that. It sounds like everybody loves that story. That would have been cool. I mean, it was cool enough for you to like put the, literally the ending bit into tells the underworld. I'm like, man, I would love to see Clint Lavars go and fight Duku and all that. And I know there's probably some Star Wars fans sitting at home like, maybe y'all should have read the book.

And you know what? You're right. But, and guess what? Did not know that this was going to be the subject matter of the show. Brother, I didn't know the book existed until I literally won. I was like, yo, when did Assad for interest die? Yeah. And it's important to know this isn't technically a retcon.

This is just more of a like a pre-establishment of con. Well, no. It's, again, it's like a comic like in the MCU that have Fury's long week. Right. You know what I'm saying? And it was like a canon thing about like what happened during the events of Iron Man 2, Thor and Incredible Hulk, which are canon. But imagine if they just, like, made, like, Iron Man 2 into a comic book and then he had to show up in Avengers.

Right. And they was like, yeah, remember what happened there? That happened. All of his growth. Yeah, I just didn't know I was supposed to be reading, too. And that's, and I think that's kind of my, that's my initial kind of, it's fair to, like, assume I've seen all the shows. And if I haven't, that's on me. Right.

But when it comes to the books, I'm like, okay, so this is like my first main issue when it comes to. kind of all of the tales from series where you are vastly at an advantage if you have, if you're like for the real ball knowers here, we've got a lot of stuff for you to... And it's for that. That's what it's for. It is. And like, not that I need

all of the Star Wars to be the most accessible things, because we have the likes of the Bad Batch and the Clotin Wars lore and all of their spin-offs to like really sink your teeth into for the extra-curricular sort of stuff that Star Wars can offer you. But to start with something like this

where like, oh, you really kind of needed to know this outside of not knowing those things and having a sort of soft reset for an anti-hero that I may or may not have the most knowledge of, this is like a, oh, this is an interesting clean slate protocol for somebody that kind of just would have had to start over anyway? I mean, maybe. I don't think so. I think if I didn't know who Assange Reuters was,

was. Right. And then she was dead. You start with somebody dying. Yeah. You'd be like, oh, she came back to life. Because this is a magic land where anything could happen and the rules are made up. Yeah, I think it actually would have been easier to jump into if you didn't know anything

about a side of interest. You'd just be like, oh, some dead lady back and she can't love this dude anymore. And now she's going to go try and live a simple life. Yeah. Right. Just out there being a little baby Jedi. Man, think about it, bro. I mean, let's talk about Lyko and them a little bit because she was kind of on the Mandalorian

beat, you know what I mean? A little bit. Like just, oh, look at this little Jedi kid. I gotta go save him. Oh, man, I'm in most icily. I got to. Here we go again. Again, only in the first episode, which by the way, each episodes are around like 15 to 20 minutes of pop.

She really didn't need to do all this. Nah, but you know, she's trying to turn over a new leaf. You know what I'm saying? First of all, her boss, whoever that lady is, I need her pack. That was crazy. Real stick in the mud. Well, no, it was cool because it was real cool. till she heard reward?

I was like, oh, man, come on. It's over now. Hey, I'd do all that. Selling up for who's selling up for why? You know how much that brand was. It could have been like two credits. I think it's more so if somebody attempts a Jedi mind trick and then fails and then somebody clearly succeeds that check.

I'm like, okay, maybe I don't mess with anybody else. You see that hand go up? And then, you know, did the Jedi need to do the hand thing? Here's the thing. When it doesn't work, it's so funny. She was like, no, no money no ticket. What are you talking about? Is there a level of like Jedi training that gets you to the point where you don't need to like do that little hand wave while you're...

I'd like to think that like, because I've seen it done like behind the back once or twice to like not look as obvious. But when it doesn't work and you do the whole wipe, it's so funny. It's so good. It's so good. But we have a couple of episodes. What do we think about the overall adventure just focusing on a massage right now? I love her. I love this character.

She's great. She's got the new hair. She's got the little hair. I had a fun time. I will take any minutes of Assange Ventress I get on my screen. That being said, not the most memorable Assange Ventris tale for me. No. It kind of begs the question because I'm like, I would have thought that a bit more like in-depth and lore-heavy story. That might have been a direct continuation of her time.

the bad batch or something a bit more similar rather than seemingly something that would wipe the slate clean for her and start her with like at zero basically yeah feels odd i i i do think that and we'll get into the cad bane stuff after this sure but i do i i think i understand why they paired these two together and i think assage's tale in this is about her willingness to adapt to change, to process the world around her and view it through like a new lens and just be open to not falling into the same things all the time. And I think the Cabin thing that we'll get into

is the exact opposite. Right. So we're going to talk. I have to, I'd say some, I just need a moment of latitude from you guys real quick. Because, and this is not the first time this has happened in one of the tales shows. And I've mentioned this many times if you've been a fan of the podcast,

you know, May Night Boys and this one to some extent, the Inquisitors are some of the worst villains. Jobbers. In the history, absolute friggin job. If I see an Inquisitor, that's a dumb. That's an easy lay. You ain't got, hey, yo, sending the fifth string players, bro. I ain't got to worry about them.

There's a bunch of Joel and beads out there. There's all this talent and what happens every time. happens every time. No talent. I've been watching Star Wars for... They're underachieve. Over a decade now, you know, from sitting in my family house computer, putting in the Star Wars New Hope DVD. And I've been locked in ever since.

And I've never seen a bunch of losers, a bunch of... Who do you trust more? Sorry excuses for talent. I have never been more disappointed, more disgusted, just absolutely embarrassed by watching one of them. The Inquisitors are the Washington generals. I would rather have the generals, bro. It's sad. They put up 30 at least.

They come up. They start spinning. I'm like, you know. Take the ball. Get them out of there, dog. Take the ball. All they do is the little tricks. Lika, look, I don't know, like, I'm not familiar with Likko's game. He don't look like a competent Jedi to me.

He got packed up by a Padawan. He couldn't do the little Jedi mine trick yet. T-a-ding, you're dead. What was the point of the operation? You know what? Hey, Lucasfilm, I know you watching, Kathleen Kennedy, Dave Filoni, John Fever, I know you're listening. I need Jedi Inquisitor Hard Knocks.

That's what I need. I need to go right into the locker rooms. The camera's off. I want to go into the locker room. I want to see how you pick those guys. The train is schedule. It basically just watched like the New York Giants Hard Knocks where they're like letting Sequant Barkley go.

But it's like, who do we trust? Sorry to Danny Hyphins. Right, yeah. Oh, no, he'll live. But, like, who do we trust to get the job done more? Like, a group of Stormtroopers. Honestly? Or an Inquisitor?

Honestly. You, I mean, listen. At least they run away from the clif from the clout troopers. Tomato, tomato, man. Maybe. I do. I mean, I don't respect stormtroopers, but obviously the Inquisitors cannot get the job done. Just show up to take an L.

Every time. Like, how many times are you like, man, we got to replace another inquisitor? that's why every single time we see him it's a new dude that's why the standard is so low it's tough we used to we used to have proper villains man

Quizzer shubble like that's the easy bro go you know what I mean like I'm not taking y'all seriously it's bad it's embarrassed ever since rebels man the grand inquisit was balda man yeah y'all gonna get me started

Brad I mean he's my number one op for real but just the whole lineage of inquisitors man seventh I mean the only time the Qquisters ever been cool on screen is Fall in Order. Oh, maybe. Yeah.

Jedi Survivor. Yeah. And even then, if I recall, I killed all of them. That's what I'm saying. And it's the same thing. Those were at least boss fights.

Yeah, they have some death. I'm like, all right. Y'all, okay, y'all a little bit tough. At the end of the day, though, I still overcame you. You know what I mean? And so that's where it is.

In the shows, it's more like, yo, it's like not even. I remember Osoka killed that dude in one movie. She didn't even need to save her. You know what I mean? Stand up. Have some pride. They all suck.

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Speaking of tough times though, we're looking for the path. We got to do a heist in episode two. I love a heist. This heist was fun. That was a good episode. Episode two really does have juice. I mean, we're talking about just the first three. I think that was my favorite part of the first three.

Same. Obviously, like, you love a heist. I love a little catamari ball that you just roll around in while your... That was fun. I can't remember the joy's name, but when they're rolling on a ball and he, like, locks in and he puts one gun up. And then put the other gun up, like it's bad boys, too. It starts spinning. I was feeling it.

Yeah. That's tough. The Philoniverse really does pull out some good surprises, and I really did like this. And then to be like, okay, we have a double cross with so-and-so friends. The most obvious double cross ever, but it's fine. And then we get to episode three. And we're moving along.

What do we think about episode three? This is kind of when we're starting to, like, shift things around a bit. Got some diplomacy. Yeah, man, look. I think, I mean, part of this was to you know kind of bring us along the way of how Assange

Ritch has got to where she is in Bad Batch right you know obviously when we left her in Clone Wars she was an opt-I think she helps Asoka the end of Clone Wars with her thing with a Barris correct right and so we kind of see like okay Assize

hey you might be the hume you might be cool but this is yeah this is to firmly establish her and someone as someone who is you know left the dark side is more willing to. Yeah, you're hearing her say stuff like, you know, we don't need everything to be a battle.

You know, like we can, not everything has to be a fight. Yeah. You know. She might as well be talking to Cadbane. I mean, speaking of Cadbane. Honestly, right? And she's, yeah, she's finding a way

to, you know, become, I mean, kind of like a Jedi. I mean, the saber is yellow, right? She says, may the force be with you? Which is nuts for somebody who's killed a lot of, like he said, like she said, killed a lot of Jedi.

along the way. The way she said that, the line to live around that was great. Because you could tell it wasn't like a wholehearted, like, may the force be with you. It was her kind of like finding a way to respect his path as a Jedi without it being like her path.

Yeah, and it's not reluctant. It's all about respect. It really is. It really was about respect. It was like, that's not my thing, but like... And it's tapping it and it's tapping into her like ideally kind of finding the ways of a Jedi order that was lost to her.

Like, you can get that in one line reading. Yeah. That is really, really meaty. And I really liked how that was delivered. Yeah, I enjoyed that. I think her specific, like her arc in this, I enjoyed a lot. But, I mean, it was cool

when they went to the dude's house and he didn't shoot him. Like, I mean, like, even more than a new or another. Get off my lawn. Yeah, I mean, okay. And then, I guess, to give us some credit, he wants to fight the people

and she's like, no, we don't have to do that. To your point, Matt. We don't live like that no more, bro. The war's over. The war's been over. Let's put the guns down. Let's talk this thing out. We'll have to die hard, right? Right?

And I think that is something that, like, again, speaks to her growth, not only as a Jedi, but just as a person over these, you know, being dead changes a person, right? It does. At this point, it's like, I, I haven't, we ain't got to fight over everything. He's viewing these aliens as just

the enemy, right? And they come in and they're like, no, we can talk to them. We can talk to them. And they're, they want to talk. Everybody wants to talk. We don't need these blasters. Yeah, so I think it found like a cool end. I mean, Lacko comes back, you know, and I thought, you know, again, we've seen this before.

So it's not like, oh, man, we came back, married together again. Yeah, of course, because that's how it goes. You know, just, you know, let the little homie. So, but like, do we think that this could have had like a bit more of an emotional heft if we, kind of win a different direction with a story like this. Because again, like the Asage Ventures of it all has weight to it. I don't know how much you can hope to get done in three,

15 minute episodes. It's tough. That's kind of my biggest problem with the whole series to begin with. It's like, even if you're really cooking in these tales, right? Like the best case scenario is we as viewers get to the end and we're like, damn, I wish there was more of that. Like that's the best case scenario. He's like, shit, man, we're out of this.

I wish like we had more. And like, I don't know, half the time I feel like we get there. And the other time we were like, well, that was, I didn't, I don't regret my time with this. It's interesting because I know that it's becoming like a bit more difficult to get the bigger Clone Wars spinoffs. Not so much greenlit, but coming across in like full force because the bad batch was very like weighty. And we had like a lot of seasons of that. Obviously the Clone Wars went on for a very long time and gave us a lot of great storytelling there. Now it seems like we're kind of going into little bits and starts about the stories that we want to tell and being effectively told.

And then we get to pretty much the second half of this season and it's about Cadbane. Yeah. How do we think about that? How did we like that turn? How did we like the bit like it was a bit of a coin flip on the side of that season? I don't say a coin flip. Well, yeah, I mean, Matt mentioned this earlier, but it's kind of it's two sides of the same. the same coin in terms of it is about Assize letting go and Cadbay not being able to let go.

And so like we see his origin story, right? I'm watching when I was first watching, I see Kobe and Nero and then like running around. And like you do is if you, it's like a blink and you'll miss it. But I saw a guy with the with the hat. Yep. And I saw it too. And I was like. And he's in the background.

Exactly. for like eight frames. And that's all I need to be like, I know that guy. Is that cabbane? That's what, and I was like, is that cat?

But then he talks, you're like, oh, that's not, that's not Cadbane. But then, but you put it together. It's like,

oh, one of those kids is Cadban, probably the guy with Kobe. Like, I just assume that anyone with that hat is Cadbane. What was wrong with me? That's what I figure. And I'm like,

I was interested. I was like, okay, this is like the Cad Bayeator origin story. And I figured that it would be dark. But, man, it was bleak. It was. I watched these Cabbane episodes, and I was like, you know what show this reminds me of?

The Wire. Oh, wow. We are seeing the socioeconomic factors that lead children into a life of crime. Right. Like, it was, it's basically the wire. And then, like, he's walking through the streets when he gets out of jail. And you basically can hear people going like, Omar coming. Yeah, yeah.

And it's dark. It was like, yeah. was pretty dark for a Star Wars story. That's not going to see an episode called A Good Life. I'm like, this is not going to go well. There's not a lot of Star Wars where, like, you know, someone gets gunned down in the street as, like, in front of their not actual child's store.

Yeah. Dog. That was tough. That turn was tough. That turn was tough because you could have sent them like a letter or something. Hey, man, I know you in jail and we're not really hungry right now, but I just want to let you know I've been raising your son

so just like hey if you ever come back I want to kill me just know that you will be killing the only father that your son ever knew I just want to put that out there let's work out this co-parenting thing

when you get out yeah be the father that stepped up exactly don't you know what I mean like if you if you're like super set on killing me like can we just work out like because you don't do it in front of the boy and then raise the boy

and don't tell him that that you killed me And it's crazy. Because like... If you want to rename him, like, we weren't sure about Isaac. Isaac is kind of a weird, like, I don't know. Maybe you want a harder name than Isaac for your son, but tried. Which is crazy because it's kind of...

It did get me. The twist did get me because I figured like the twist was that Aaron and Niro got together, had a baby behind Cad Bain's bag. And like, that's dirty enough as it is. Right. That's so nasty. But the fact that they got together, that Nero raised Cabin's bag. Maine's child and then Cap Man shot him in cold blood. Yeah.

Looked at home boy and I was like, oh, that's actually my son and they walked away. Mm-hmm. Nasty, brucey. Tough. I was like, yo, even for Star Wars, man, I was like, Jesus. It's pretty brutal. I was like, Jesus Christ. Like, again, to your point.

Man, I would like to see where that went. This is kind of the thing. Like, if you're going to do these short format things, like, I think this can work. But I think the big problem that's, they keep running into is that they keep using like big tent pole characters that have so much to them that you're seeing a sliver of something like this should be like I feel like it would be more successful if it were like just little three 15 minute episode things of characters who we've maybe seen like like like on the on the periphery of things and wondered like oh what what is there to

that character story where like you can get you know 45 minutes of story. and be like, oh, it's cool to know more about that character. Whereas you give me like 45 minutes of Assange Ventris, and I'm like, whoa, this is going to be substantial. And it's kind of like, I only need like eight more of these before I have enough Asage Ventress. Right. It feels like too little and not long enough.

It's a tiny slice of something so big when we could just be getting all the slices we needed of something smaller. Very well said. And same for Cadbane, because that was such a meaty story, even for the 315 minute episodes that we got. I thought it was really great, though. It was very well executed. I felt bad when it was over.

Yeah. But I can't say anything but that it was really well written. And to my analysis, I feel like a story like that as short as it is, if I can draw a straight line from where that character ends to where I know him to be, then I think it did its good job. Yeah. Yeah. Again, like I think the second episode in that arc was really well done.

two he finds out Laslo's dead goes back and he's like oh what's up Nero's my guy oh you the lawman now I'll bet I'm gonna get you up

I'm gonna get your man's bro I'm letting you know right now I ain't coming here for no ha ha no kikis coming for blood and you know it it was it was tough

you know seeing Aaron get shot but then then seeing him walk or walk away in cuffs too but I figure it's Cabin what's the words that can happen you know what I'm saying

comes back But he's like, no, I'm getting this in blood. Right. This is not done. Coming back for Aaron and to find out that Aaron was out there, you know, with the Nero, I was like, God dang. This is, this is hard. This is nasty work. I mean, I got excited when I found out that Cabain was going to be like one of the subjects of this.

And because I love Cadbanon. Every time he's on screen, I'm like, hell yeah. And I walked away from this and I was like, he's so bad. I don't even. I don't know if I even want to deal with it. It's not fun to like him anymore. You're just a real son of a bitch. Shout out Corey Burton, man.

I mean, sure. Like, we have, you know, villains in the series who've blown up entire planets. Sure. And I'm like, okay, but Cabin can kill that one man in the street. Kill two men in the street. Two men.

Whereas I'm like, you know, I could stand for some more grandma talking. I didn't know anyone on Alderan. No. When that blew up. You knew. That wasn't my family. I mean, I didn't.

Yeah, you're right. Organa, bail. The Organa family, sure. Yeah, you knew two people. I knew two people. I knew two people amongst a planet. All right, whatever. It's like four billion people would die that day, man.

It was crazy. Yeah. It's kind of nuts. But anyway, Cabin, truly evil. But did we know that somebody else's son? All those stories were snuffed out. Jesus, man. That was not, bro.

Again, I keep harpy back on it. But that's a moment that you, again, you'd find out of the wire. You're finding, like, Game of Thrones. or something, a little, like, twist. Yeah. A red wedding level, like, harshness. Yeah, like, to be just like, oh, yeah, that was your son the whole time. And you killed his proxy dad in front of him.

I imagine what you can do to him. Anyway, roll credits, man. We'll see on. Yeah. And I'm out, like many fathers. That's tough, man. Tough. Well, here's the thing, man.

Like, looks, listen, it's not just black people. aliens also leave their kids okay well yeah let's be yeah because people like yo that's black people people always like oh man these black fathers man that's what they'd be saying about

you know LeBron like I ain't got no dad that's why you act like that no listen don't be racist or species this also happens in space right they believe in that old man like the old man in the at the end of the ventures

thing who was like I'm just these aliens are bad and I'm gonna sending your kid out to get that water knowing that it's like infested. Okay, well, is he supposed to go get it? I mean, yeah, but you don't know it's supposed to send the kid. You got to send somebody to get the water. You got to see them with those tanks and then just knowing that it was going to,

I don't know, man. Like, was that the first time he sent that kid out there? Definitely not. Definitely not. But you can't go. That's why it got him in a wheelchair in the first place. You got so much technology in Star Wars. Maybe, maybe, but you know, man, I really want to know, like, what happens

to like Cadbane's kid now. Like, because both of, the, the two tales in this one are really about like, you can go two ways in life. You can be adaptable to what's around you and make changes. Or you can let trauma and the past define who you are and never get out of that cycle. Yeah. A true nature versus nurture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm really curious, like, I assume that we'll never find out what happened.

They'll write a book about it and we'll know. And then the next tales will start. And then with that kid dying, he's getting resurrected. Yeah. He's in the death, the mirror water again. All right. So, I went to, Quinlan Voss was crying again.

And you're just like, how do you even know? How do I even know this boy? With Cadbury, son. I was like, man, you missed a great adventure, guys. You should have been there. He should have been there. Oh, my God, dude, it was crazy. Yeah.

It was cocaine and hookers. It was nuts, man. You would have loved it. It's just the end of the hangover. And then you just start. a new journey after that. That's great. All right, well, to kind of talk about things that we liked about this,

like, can we kind of rank our tales seasons? Because we have Tales of the Jedi, Tales the Empire, and Tales of the Underground. Where do you think we might rank this? This is easy for me. I think Tales of the Jedi's first, you know, obviously get to see Yaddle. Yaddle, yeah. And then, you know,

I'm obviously, you know, big fan of seeing a Duku. Duku. Sure. Tells the other ground two And tells of the Empire 3 Because I don't really mess with bears like that I've been honest with you That's my op I'm my ops is day one

Fascinating Yeah brother when she showed up When she was playing in Asoka's face bro They kicked Asoka out the order for that I understand Nah I can't co-sign that big brough No sir

That's my opera And they try to rehabilitate her They do this thing But they do in comics Which We have to have not like a large conversation, but we got to like stop.

Stop a conversation. We have like a good, we have an evil villain, right? And then people are like, man, this villain's really cool. We like this evil villain. Like, bet they're a good guy now. And it's like, no, man,

keep barris and op. Oh, people aren't capable of change. They're not capable of, uh, they better not be, not my ops. Okay, so you want the mistake had bang. You want them mistake had bang. Be worse. Be worse.

I want to hate you forever. I don't want to like, tend to like you. Right. Because, like, you had a change of heart. Like, oh, my fault that I got a soak a kid after order. Don't go to church. And now she not.

Don't seek forgiveness. And now she's not in Revenge of the Siff because I had to, you know, get one off. Nah, bro. That's not where I'm at. I'm not that woke. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay.

So the unwokening has fully taken, Joe Me. What do you think, Matt? I loved the Duku stuff. Like, to me, that was really fun and interesting. And that was a character that I always felt like we could use more. background. Duku is Loki awesome?

Because it's so fascinating like just just the turn that he makes over time. Yes. Like he could

you feel like he was smart enough and capable enough to go in a lot of different directions. So it was good to see like

background on him. Yeah, I kind of I would put it Jedi Underworld and then Empire if I were

ranking them. I'm kind of the opposite. I would put Empire, then Jedi, then underworld. Interesting.

Because, again, I loved the ideas that came from Jedi, and I kind of just like the ideas that Empire twist the knife into because it's the things that make somebody want to go to the empire, or at least trust the empire, or trust that system a bit more. Mainly the Duku stuff was actually incredible. And I know that that's going to be the highlight for most of us, but that was kind of, like, incredible for me. I mean, I like them all, for sure.

Yeah. But I also, with all of them, just kind of, kind of. kind of constantly like bat heads with like the format of it just being like as I said like you wish there were more yeah constantly wish there were more but like we got these like 20 22 episodes seasons of like clone wars and like you know I'm used to this like I'm used to a lot right so these tales so Poloni spoiled us a little bit these tales are I just man we used to make real we used to make real content right you know like when I when I finished role on episode six Oh, Tocelyn Underword, I was like, I miss, I miss Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad.

I was like, I miss Bad Bad Bad Bad Man. I like Clone Wars, Rebels, like all that, man. You used to have it all. We used to have it all, brother. And we get like six episodes. We're getting little tails. Just little tails every year. Look at a shrinkflation.

Right. Little, little salt on it. I'm like, that's cool. Like, again, I love Andor. You know, they got a lot of stuff coming down the pipe. Absolutely. But haven't like a nice little 30 minute? There's a real soft spot for these animated series

where like you just felt like they had the freedom and time to really go deep into something. But if Tales of Reca comes out. Hell yeah. And then she dies and then comes back to life and then she has to have her memory wiped. Well, you got to think about it, right? We see at the end of Bad Batch, Omega is like

six nine at this point. She's like, I don't want to go fly planes. She's about to be considered. for the team, the basketball team. Yeah. And I'm like, yo, first and foremost, I know you want to fly planes,

but weren't you trying to be a Jedi like six hours ago? Like, what happened? But that's fine. Who cares? Yeah. I would like to see her in the, like, the rebel fight.

You know what I'm saying? She gold team? Is she red team? Like, I would love to see. I would love to see that. Yeah. I would love to see that. Unfortunately,

she's going to be a leader, whether it's gold or red. She's going to be the leader. Right? I would love to maybe like, like, see her with the, actually fight with the rebels. or something like that.

I don't know. You know? Maybe a hothead. What if she can't respect authority? 2026 tells the rebellion, we're going to get Omega back. But it's only going to be for three episodes. It's the most demoralizing story. And then she just moves off.

She'll be fine. Here's what the story is. I know you're watching. Dave Filoni, John Frabri, Kathleen Kennedy. She's going to be fine in the rebellion. Right. She's going to get a call like, yo,

Rekka, man, it's bad. The cancer's got to his liver, bro. it's over. And he's going to have to go back to whatever planet they was at. That's going to be Echo. It's going to be Hunter. It's going to be crosshair. They're going to be like, yo, he only got a couple days left, man. And it's going to be playing the

memories of all that stuff. Funeral time. And we're going to have to watch record die. And it's going to be really sad. And we're like, dang. And then they do the funeral pyre. They got cancer in space. That's crazy. And then they go to Dathamere, right? And they bring them back. Right? Right.

And the witches are like you can't. I'm going to death of a She's going to make the call. Like, yo, you know, vicious, man. I heard you go some witches. How'd you come back? It's not a story that Jedi would tell you. Whenever someone I like dies on Star Wars from now on, I'm just going to assume in my mind. We tried the Lazarus pit.

That's what I was thinking of the same thing. And everything worked out fine. Clearly they got the Lazarus pit. But then what does record give up? No, he doesn't. He's not a witch. So he just got, he didn't have to do it yet. Oh, he just come back.

Uh-huh. He just come back. Okay. That's a witch thing. That's only for the death of their witches. All right. Nah, man, I just want to have a show in this world, 20 episodes, and it's somebody somewhere, do some cool stuff. The lightsaber stuff in the Assange Venture stuff was really cool.

Great. It was really cool. Again, not to say that Andor not hitting, and it was absolutely hidden. Oh, absolutely. But I missed the silly stuff, man. I missed the Pumpham wum

There's a balance It is about balance You know Like even though Bad Batch and I have a ton of that The show was still Incredible But like yeah

I missed that It's been a minute Since we had that little silly stuff You know what I mean And so I would love to see more But we're just not

We're not doing that right now And it's That's okay And that's what it's supposed to be A nice little treat for us On May the 4th To give us a little You know

A little morsel A nice little DASH'll do you Yeah The appetizer was lovely And I am appetized and I want a meal. I want a meal.

Where's the meal now? Where's the meat? Come on, Dave. Give me the meat. Are you not ready for the? All right. Yeah, Dave. Give me the meat.

I know Kerm is in the booth just like looking up from his phone. It's like, huh? Again. Every day. Getting too old for the shit. Meanwhile, Kerm like 25. Too old. Kerm is like, Kerm, what, Kerm L are you?

26. 26. 26. 26. Young. virile. Man, you got your whole life ahead of you,

man. It's not the Drewskiy line? You look all of that. Yeah, you look all of that. I'm just kidding. Kermen's a very spry young man. Except from a 35-year-old. It's entirely fair.

All right, before we go. Oh, my God. Last final thoughts. We recommend Tales from the Underground. Yeah, but only. Obviously, to people who are well deep into the Star Wars lore. For sure. Especially people deep enough to have read books.

Dark Disciple, for sure. Are you going to read Dr. Disciple? Yeah, definitely. Unblinking response. You know what, Jomey, I'm going to hold out because I'm just going to assume that they're going to put that on screen. Sure, yeah. At some time. They heard us.

Definitely, I'm sure they're going to do that. right they're not just gonna they're not just gonna show us he's uh star wars movie is gonna be because that's long speculated on what it's actually gonna talk about who tychoa white tis is that he's star wars movie it is happening apparently

we keep getting told it's happening dark disciple is he ready for that I mean I will I mean listen somebody but somebody's got to be in charge that's all like somebody else got to be in charge I was imagining that his movie would be something about like

you know, the imperial soccer team that's scrappy enough to make it to the championship. I think we can get something on a Tyca, but Kathleen or John, whoever is in charge of everything

has got to be like, got to be babysitting, basically. It's like, all right, let's see what's going on here. Let's, we can't have a love of thunder situation. I would be surprised if anyone in charge of these decisions

who's not Dave Filoni is just, they got Quinlan Voss on the mind. For sure. They're just trying to push the Voss agenda over in the Star Wars camp. Yeah, I can't really. I hope to be wrong. But the fact is, I don't even know if I want to see that in live action.

I kind of, I kind of like, I don't really want Star Wars these stories to, I don't want to take something from the animated series and necessarily jump to live action and then back again. And like I love the Asoka show And I love when Boba Fett like dabbles into that too Sure. It's like fun to see You know the live action versions of things But ultimately I think like those stories that originate in the animated kind of universe Are better served like staying there.

It's an interesting balance though because You kind of like as like in the business aspect of it You kind of want to placate to the people that are those die hard of a fans that really love The likes of Clone Wars, rebels etc. When you have the cast of revels show up in a Mandalorian say or anything else like a Boba Feph like when Rex showed up like everybody lost their minds and some people are just like who the fuck is that and we don't really care like we just want a accessible story and not need to know that this is from a person this 20. The MCU fatigue is so real and at the same time andor is like

the biggest most successful thing that Star Wars has done lately. So it it's feels like it doesn't make sense for them to keep fan serving when they can give like the Star Wars universe to like a totally different unrelated side story that doesn't have like a billion characters that you need to know back story. Like they're live action

they're getting the most right now out of out of like distancing themselves from the depth of the Star Wars lore just putting new stories. Or at least the inaccessibility of it. The inaccessibility of it. Well I be at this point it's such an intertwined and interconnected world that it if you don't you it's hard it's it'll be like nearly impossible for somebody to jump in and not have to go back and like lock it on at least what first nine episodes maybe a show or two like did we love the obi one series i mean no but no that's not because it was about obiwan or it was about the early days of it was so dependent on like your your like prior knowledge of you don't have to watch the prequels at least

kind of but then also it's just like okay maybe we don't need Princess Leia Hayden in his jacket one ticket to the movies but that's also the thing like there was to say here and say there wasn't any cool stuff in there I think it was no no sure there's actually some meat in there but there are some choices that were made it's kind of like all right guys you know like we could have we could have tied up the reveal bar of like how much do you serve the fans or just how much are you trying to make a cohesive story that that you know anyone can hop into it

out feeling like they're 23 movies deep into the MCU. Right. And obviously, like, knowing that the likes of Andor, which is out right now, like, is operating on the highest possible level of, like, just storytelling in general. Like, it's not, it's levels of TV that we haven't seen in years, let alone Star Wars. It's something that you brought up, which is you take a character that you kind of, like, it's unknown. And you're like, what happened to this guy?

And you give them two seasons of TV versus that they made, like, again, an Obi-Wi, much or like a Darth Vader show. People we know, people we spend a lot of time with. We kind of know their deal is it's cool that we could see, you know, what happened to Cadban or what happened to Assange Ventress, you know, in a life that we've, again, we spent like five seasons on across a whole bunch of episodes getting to know what Cat Bain's deal is. We're getting to know what Asage Venture deal is.

Cassidy Endor, he was just in that movie one time and he died. It was like, huh? Hey, what? Spoiler alert! Oh, whoa, spoiler alert for Rock One. The guy who delivered the Death Star plane. I was not mentioned in episode 4, 5, or 6 died a horrible grisly death

next to Jen Ursa I wouldn't say horrible of grizzly It's just like a big bright flash and then you're gone You died like in an atom nuclear explosion. That's grizzly I don't know what to tell you. I think there are worse ways Is there a worst way to die than Adam explosion?

Yes, yeah I mean like being shot dead in the street in front of your son Yeah, that's true. If you're, okay, would you rather be You'd rather be real close to the blast zone. Do you want to be in the bomb or do you want to be irradiated? Yeah. I mean, I guess there is a little bit of like, man, you know, instant.

No, they didn't, I guess they died kind of instantly. Instantly. But, I mean, they saw the thing and then the blast. Yeah, but it was very poetic and beautiful. And I'd love to do that. It was not. I was looking at the ocean. They look at the sunset and they don't kiss because that would have been weird.

Well, kind of. Not really. I don't care. We got to talk about it on another podcast. We will. We will. Because we can't talk about Thunderbolt Spoilers. out here because they'll start cussing.

We will not. But people are children. Let people fall in love. Let people fall in love. People fall in love. But no, I feel like, I guess like either way, you die. So I guess it really doesn't matter. But I would feel like I would much rather, you know, pretend that I'm alive for the next like 26 days when my brain melts.

Yeah. Then like, man, just like poof. Nah, I get to think about it. I'm taking that poof. You're taking a poof? You're taking a poof. You're dying? Get me out right away.

I don't want to die in a hallway with Darth Vader. I'll tell you that much. Man. I don't want to get shot to death in the street in front of my adopted son. Exactly. I'm hanging from the ceiling, getting my inner slice open. So, guys, we're going to end the podcast at some point, but while we're here. Right.

We have the scene with Darth Vader in the hallway, top tier. Sure. Then we have the scene in Last Jedi in the throne room. Yeah, top tier. I can't remember lightsevers being cool after that. I can't. Maybe I, I've only seen rides skywilded. once.

So maybe there's a scene in there. Why? Because I needed to know. Like, I saw it when it hit digital and then nothing, not since. I went,

I went, The Rise of Skywalker has returned. I went, I went and rewatched all of them. I went to prequels, the originals. I got to the last Jedi, I said,

you know what? I wish they made a nice movie. There were a couple of moves in Jedi Survivor that I hadn't seen. Well, yeah, I mean, but yeah, but, I mean,

it's a video game. I'm talking about, like, you know. I get you. I get you. I get you. Yeah, it's been tough since we got served.

Oh, no, no, Acolyte. Ackleite. Ackleid had, like, top tiered lightsaber. Yeah. Absolutely right. You're right.

You're right. Joe Me is wrong. No, it's absolutely correct. Listen, if we take stuff away, we recommend Tales of the Underground and Acolyte had some of the best lightsabes of all. Oh, my, bro. They was cooking with the lightsaber stuff in there, bro.

It was legitimately incredible. Legitently we forget. And then everything else. Not everything else. Not everything else. The most important stuff. There was some backslides for sure. There was some stuff.

Oh, man, you brought a scene in the forest. In the forest. And then when they were beefing in the final fight, when she bled the crybler, Chris? Oh, man. Cinema. What happened to my country, dog? We used to make real tea.

Well, we can't make real stuff here because 100% or... Terrorists. 100% tariffs. So we're not making any kind to anywhere else. All right. Well, with the reigniting of the trade war, we are going to end this brief little mint edition here. Are we in phantom menace right now?

Oh, my God. We need the trade federation. Oh, my God. Are we the separatists? Are we the... Oh my goodness. We just don't need those guys running the Trade Federation.

Guys. We're in Fantaminus. Thank you so much. Everyone thinks to the rebels. Every side thinks to the rebels. Exactly. Very true. Revolution is not for the same.

We should get into pod racing. What do you guys think? Like gambling? No, pod racing. Pod racing. Oh, okay. Racing. Oh, we're racing.

No, I'd rather gamble on that. You rather gamble? Yeah. I don't know, man. What's the fan dual odds for Anakin? Bro, his odds had to be crazy. bro. He had to be like, real bad. There's a guy who was in there. He's a minus 600.

And he said, yo, you know what? Boom, I'm putting 300 on that little kid right there. Who knows? He's like eight years old. He eight years old, man. Whatever. I got, what else I got to lose, right? And in like, in a middle of race, he was like. They did.

Let a child in there. They did. Well, it was a tougher time. I get it if like they come from like the world of horse jockeys where you're like, well, they got to be small. They need to be tiny. The weight. The weight to the, you know. Yeah.

Did all the, like, I don't know, maybe all the other alien races, like, couldn't tell that this is a human child. I don't know. I need to tell you a job. Trying to explain it. Can't really explain it. That needs to be a story. Again, Kathleen Kennedy, Dave Filoni, John Favrella.

The next Kentucky Derby. Right. The next, uh, tales of whatever. Wado. Tales of Wado. It's got to be. Let's go. Tails a subbobo.

It's got to be some guy who put all his credits on Anakin winning. And then he won. And now he's the big boss of all size or whatever. He put $10 down as a joke like on this child. He's the little kid's not going to win, but whatever, man. What else are you going to do? Turn to do 100 grand. And now he's a richest person and now everybody's trying to get at him, bro.

Now he's got to protect his wealth, man. He got all the bounty hunters trying to kill him. That's real cinema. Lock that in. Hey, keep my line. You got my email. Tap him. We'll make something happen.

And with that, thank you so much for joining us on this nice little nugget of a mint edition. Tell us the other world. Tell us the other world, baby. Pretty good. Thank you again. Don't forget tomorrow, Midnight Boys are going to give you their Instagram reactions to Andor Button Mash is going to be giving you the last of us

along with Howsevar's Deep Dive as well and or Last of Us. Andor what? Don't stop. You did that again. We did it again and we got a yes and all of that stuff. We're having a great time. That's fine.

Matt James, thank you so much for joining us. Always happy to be here, y'all. Anything to promote it, Claire? Video games are good. New games are good. Like his art. Yeah. I don't know. We're good. Check out the website. Yeah. What a great website. Don't you don't just check out the socials for Jomi.

Exactly. Check out the website. And comment on how great the art is. All the art. Shout out Neil. Shout out Neil. Shout out David Shoemaker. Shout out Jonathan Bartlett. All of our great people. The whole art team.

We are produced. Our people. Our people. By the great Jonathan Kerma. The initial production by Arjuna Ramgo Pal. Jomi, if you have any party words for us, I got some parting words. I want to give a shout out to our young producer. 26-year-old Kerm Anthony Towns.

And as always, we love you guys. We'll talk to you soon. And let's go New York Knicks. Let's go New York Knicks.