The Ringer-Verse - The 2023 Midnight Mulligans | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: December 27, 2023

The Midnight Boys look at their Midnight Meter rankings of the past year and perform their yearly audit to make adjustments to how they feel now about the year's biggest movies and shows (06:57). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone. I'm Mallory Rubin and I am thrilled to tell you that House of VAR has a new podcast feed. Joanna Robinson and I will now be with you twice a week with more of the deep dives you've come to know and love on the ring of universe. In addition to exploring all of your favorite nerd culture new releases, we'll have nostalgic revisitations, hype meters, hall of fame inductions, tropes courses, drafts, and more. All bad babies are welcome as we dive into Star Wars, Marvel, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, and beyond. Follow the new House of Our feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer.

Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is of course the Ringers Nexus podcast fee for all things fandom. Coming to you live from Los Angeles, California. All of them

together, but still in different places. We are, Jono me the Explaner at Dinner Ron, you've got questions, he's got answers. We are, Steve, the architect almond, the builder of things. We are, old man, van, he of the receding resurgent hairline, we are. Coke, baby,

Chuck the California kid. Together we are known as of the midnight boys. All right. Check us out on socials. Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomi's job. Jomi, I want to ask you a question real quick.

Social-wise. There's been a nationwide recall on Tesla's, which is affecting my family. One of the biggest social engines that you manage at the ringer is Twitter X, formerly known as Twitter. Do you expect that this

recall Tesla products will have any technology ramifications over on the old X? Is Elon finally falling apart? What's going on, Daddy? Well, I mean, if we're thinking big picture here, you know, probably the Tesla stock falls and, you know, that puts a dent because he had to,

you know, do a lot of leveraging that stock to be able to buy Twitter. So it might become a problem down the road. but for now, uh, must pack. We're smoking that thing. Let's go.

Before we get into programming reminders, I have to bring up something very important. Give it. Something that I was disgusted by recently. Oh, oh, Jesus. I love you,

Steve. I love you to death. The activist this weekend, it was disgusting, bro. Oh, like, I've never seen.

Hey, yo. That is true. That is true. That's legit. It was locked in. Br. He was scoping the shot.

He's out because he was the only white boy there. It was him and like rest of peace, but a Mac Miller look alike. And Steve looked like he was in a chocolate candy store. So what Charles is talking about is we went to an event. Charles's first weekend out here. It was called Hot Water Cornbread. Okay.

And the event is what it seems like, what the name denotes. So black Americans having fun. And not how, Hollywood black Americans. This is like, this is real black people having real black fun. No, this was, this was the real, real black America. We were, you know. Yeah, we were in the community. All right. The boys kept asking where we were going. I was like, don't worry about it. And we went down there. We got a table and Steve was off the Henny.

Steve was off the Henny. Steve was off the Henney. Got a couple, got a couple of hensies. It was me, Steve, Jomey, Charles. I looked over and Steve was sharing his food with Black, For bullshit. Yup. I looked over and Steve is, I see Steve put like literally feeding the community. I look out and I see Steve with his plate out to some black ladies and they're eating. And I'm like, yo, this nigga Steve, I'm going to be honest with y'all. Steve was on this shit, man.

For real. Steve was standing on the table. Steve was doing a whole, but he was sharing food. He was literally feeding the community. It was fun. We had fun. Do we not have fun? Are we out a blast?

Jomi's small talk game is crazy. I was scaring the hose. It was great. Yeah, we're having a lot of fun. The Midnight Boys, we're together. It feels so special. Everybody, you guys, I'll let you guys know. The ringer is electric, electric with Charles.

Charles is here. Charles is here. I had a conversation yesterday. It's Charles here. Charles. It was like a musical. Charles is here, Charles is here. Charles.

It's fun, very fun. People are very excited. It's very fun. It's fun time. Um, Brok out of my hand. This week, Mal and Joe will give you that deep dive into the Doctor Who Christmas special, which I haven't seen. Is it good? Have you guys watched it?

People are really excited about Shudy Gatwa. Do we fuck with Doctor Who here on the Midnight Boys? Is that a thing for us? I've never watched Doctor Who. That's nothing against Doctor Who? You ever just know how like some shit has been going on too long and you're like, I don't know, man. I just think it's past me right now. I was on the phone with my best friend Joanna

and she broke down to me basically the whole situation with Doctor Who and how he or Doctor Who like transforms when there's a new Doctor Who you know what you call it? Transmutes. Sure. Regenerates. How do he regenerates

into a new Doctor Who and you never know and a doctor who doesn't know what it's going to happen and all of that stuff. It's like it's kind of interesting. It's very interesting show. Regenerating as a niggie. crazy. Like, if you was white for like 50 years and then just one time you just for you black, that shit's wild. But think about it the other way. Think about if you out, which is scarier. I think it's scarier. I think if I woke up white right now, it would be

actually scarier than a white person waking up black. Would you still be Van Lathen though? Yeah, I'm still Van Lathen, but I just wake up tomorrow and I'm with like my face. And I'm, it's not, that's going to change everything, bro. Here's the thing. No, if I wake up white, Like, I'm doing everything, bro. I'm doing... Wait a minute. I'm pissing on a fucking cop car. I'm doing everything I've ever...

Hold on for a second, Charles. If you wake up white, basically wake up white every fucking day. All right. It's light skin as hell. All right. On Friday, Button Mash returns to talk about the best games of 2023.

On today's show, the show that you guys wait for all year long. We perform our yearly audit of our midnight meter and give you our midnight mulligans. Chuck, tell the people what a mulligan is. All right. This is our chance for the midnight boys to look back on the scores they gave in the midnight meter of 2023 and reassess how we may feel about them. Now that the year is almost concluded.

We've had a lot of scores, so we're about to begin. But I have a public service announcement, all right? Guys, we're all friends. there are people here who should go unnamed that let's say when they're right want to be very obnoxious about it when people are changing their scores they might be laughing a little bit too much

and I want to keep disrespectful okay I'm not looking at anybody I'm just saying if you were if you are right this year and you want to take a victory lap do it with a little bit of a humble spirit okay The call is coming from inside the house.

What are we talking about? I'm going to be very humble and very... The call is coming from inside the house. This is going to be nothing but humility, so I want everybody else, all right, to be, to be okay. Be fair.

Steve, clip that bit. And we'll have to come back to it later. We'll keep that in evidence, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. First up, we have Avatar, The Way of Water. I wasn't on this episode.

Then you gave it a nine. Jomey gave it an eight. Steve a six. Let's begin, Van. I'm going up to 11. Get out of fear. That's not. That's not for real.

There's no way you're starting off like this, brother. There's no way. I am. I'm going up to 11. I'm going up to 11. That's insane. What's insane about it? Like, why is it insane?

That movie was nothing but screensavers. I can't. I can't understand. Steve? Avatar, the way of way of it. water was very good. No, it wasn't. An 11? Come on. Game changer. That's game changer territory. Okay, so let me tell you why I'm going up to an 11, an avatar of way of water. When the movie first came out and we did the film, the film had opened pretty big, right?

The film had been making waves. I loved the movie. I only liked it more when I watched it at home. I only liked it more when I watched it at home. I loved the movie. Spider, problematic. I get Is that what keeping it from a 12? Is that what's keeping it from a 12th? Spider problematic. I get it. Avatar Way of Water made $2.32 billion. $2.32 billion.

That's because he needed to go to IMAX and pay $30 to see the movie. I'm talking about the fact that Avatar Away of Water made $2.32 billion. It grossed. $684 million in North America, nearly $700 million in North America.

$1.636 billion in other territories. It is the third highest grossing movie of all time. I can't take you seriously, bro. I'm being real. If that's not what we're talking about when we're talking about game change and stuff, then I don't know what we're talking about.

Is this also on the eaves of like the new, what is it, Avatar 4 or 3 script coming back with zero studio notes and executives just being like, holy fuck? The old title that they had to change, that shit was about to be called Avatar the Seed Bearer. That's a craft. That's not gone.

That's not, we can't do that. That's a crazy title, the internet, the internet, the internet not going to allow us to have that. I gotta go up. I personally, so I love the movie. So let me tell you why I'm going up to 11. I love the movie more on a rewatch. I loved it more on a rewatch.

And if we're talking about movies that have had an impact, it's the third highest grossing movie of all time. Of all time. That's it. I don't have to see this. All right, Jomey, Steve, what are your new scores? Because I can't do this with me. It's infuriating that Avatar's not going anywhere for like the next 30 years.

Because this never lands with me. I couldn't give a shit about Avatar and I think it sucks. And it should remain so. And I'll go as low as a five for this new score. I don't like it. Jesus. I don't like it. Jeez.

Joe me. A five. Hold on. You know what's funny? That's horseshit. First of all, even. Five is crazy. Even if just on watching the movie alone, it's better than a five.

It was really cool when that dude lost his arm. That was pretty cool. All right. Here's the thing I will say, just in terms of the level of like, even if you aren't fucking with the story, just the level of filmmaking, a five, a five, Steve, really? No, you don't believe that. It's all technicals. Like, you're trying to get your, you're trying to get your Charles shit off.

Stop trying to out Charles. Charles. Don't worry. I won't out Charles, Charles and some of these. that's fine all right yo joe what are you giving this one what to say at eight it's

it's probably it's probably still an eight man it looks great it it it's just like a fan like I mean it's the it's the world's best video game cutscene you know and it's just a solid film

disrespectful I'm giving it an eight as well but this movie was good I'm not I'm not saying it was bad it looks great you know the story is, you know, minimal, but like it just like, when the whales doing the thing underwater,

I'm like, bruh, this is, I love this. You know what? I'll spend more time with the whale. You know what? We're moving on to the next one, because this is my time. This is going to prove so much about what I can't stand

about the midnight meter. We're going to do Ant Man and the Wasp quantumania. So when this movie came out, Van Jomi and Steve gave this bitch a seven. Okay? I gave it all.

five now before I award all y'all asses with the what are we doing here award for the year okay all right let's not defend a seven Steve I'm not I'm not I'm not okay so I will defend the seven

I've seen the movie it's just not that bad oh I'm so you guys for real fuck it it's just not that it's just not that bad y'all I mean I get that people wouldn't fucking with the movie and the movie it's just not that bad.

If I was going to go down to a six, this is the reason why I would go down. Because the movie basically ended Marvel. Okay, now that's got to take, it's got to take some dings for basically being the film that made everybody go, oh my God, Marvel is cooked.

And remember, the movie opened pretty well. And so the fact that it opened pretty well made people think that maybe it would not be the resounding, resounding failure for the studio that it was. But I watch Ant Man and I'm sorry, y'all.

It's just not that bad to me. It's really not. Like, does some stupid things happen? Cool, but that's enough to watch there while I was entertained. I'm, I'm, I'm saying with the seven. How can you play stop the cap? I can't play stop the cap for that.

I can't play stop the cap for that. I'll definitely go lower. I don't think that this movie so much as like, it's illuminating and it feels like a bit more of a cry for help because it's the fact that Marvel thought that they brought us a hit when they don't even know what a hit is anymore. That's really the telling part where it feels like that big of a swing and a miss. And they're like, yeah, it's great.

We got no notes. Subsequently afterwards, like we have felt the blowback from Quantumania throughout this year in many ways. I think a seven is not how I feel about it now. Definitely, I'd go for a six. Y'all running scared. I'm going down to a five. We're going down to a three. Let's keep it up off.

Three. Oh, wow. Three is crazy. No, three is crazy. Okay. I have not thought about this movie since it came out. And the only time I do think about it is I'm like, oof, all right, worse than I remember.

So, yeah, we're going three. I'm sorry. This is no shots at all the filmmakers, writers, like, y'all do your thing. Like, I respect y'all so much. But come on, we got to keep it funky. All three comes from Modoc's butt cheeks. A three? A three? Yeah, three is disrespect. That's crazy.

You guys. I just, I want to you guys. Y'all sat here this entire year after this movie came out and be like, yeah, quantum mania, worst Marvel movie this year. Probably worse superhero movie. Oh my God. Like, come on. So, first of all, the Flash came out this year.

Have some shame. Oh, right. So it's competing with the Flash? That's where we're at right now. I'm telling, I'm Be for real. You guys, to say that this movie is a three, a three. You talk to Charles about this. I'm not. I'm telling y'all right now that you're letting perception influence you.

I'm talking about just how good the movie is. It's just not that bad. It's just, I'm sure it was disappointing. Like, I could force myself in another world to maybe go, oh, it's probably more of a six. But I like quantum mania for the most part. This entire movie, like, let's be clear. this movie set off a chain reaction

that we are still feeling. There is no way a movie that has done this much damage can be a seven. Like there's no, like a seven is passing. I think this is, I personally think that the movie has some major, huge floss. But overall, I just wasn't that down on it.

I've watched it since. To me, it's just not that bad. Jomi, I don't want to step on you. What you got? I think I got to go down to a six, only because the whole thing about like Kevin Figer why they're going like, hey, this is a banger. And we watched it.

It was cool. What the fuck does that have to do with the movie though? No. See what I'm saying? No. No. The movie carries itself like it is. The movie, they was doing a lot of like a lot of chatter.

That was like, hey, we got this one. And then you kind of look around and it was like, it was cool. Like, you know, you like your homie. So like, you'll take to a restaurant. Like, girl, this is the best burger ever had, bro. This burger. Fire, bro. You're going to love it.

It's going to be good. And you eat it. And it's like, it's cool. and you're like, can you trust your boy right now? Like, you're like, next time you go to a spot, he hyping up? Are you going to be like, I don't know, man, he took us at one burger place. He said it was fine. It was, it was cool.

It wasn't like the gas. She was talking. You know what I'm saying? So ultimately, I see where you coming from, Van. But now they thought they had a heater with this one. All right. We're going to move on, but we're going to keep this score because y'all have set the floor. And I'm very disappointed in everybody.

because y'all fake in the phone. John Wick, chapter four, Dan had an 11, I had an 8, Jomi and Steve both had tens. I'm not changing my score. I stay with an 8. It's an 11. I can't raise.

Not changing your score. All right, I respect that. It's an 11. It's a fucking great. Seeing it before. It's very long, but it's very fulfilling. It's an 11. I got to look at the,

it can't be a 12th to me, but it's definitely an 11. Jomey, Steve, y'all keeping it the same? I'm keeping in the 10. I went to France. I saw them stairs. That man fell off. I was like,

nah, this is legendary stuff right here, bro. Nah, I'm, it's a 10. I'm only going down one to a nine. I feel like this is just a smidge too long.

And it's only, like, I feel like the fat is actually in the beginning, rather than the end. I feel like you could have almost cut like a half hour out of this beginning. And we could have had like a bit of a leaner and a bit more fun for me personally.

everything is great about it. I think just as a package, it's way too long for me. But still pretty amazing. A nine. All right. So next up, we have the Super Mario Brothers.

I gave it an eight. So did the Mint Boys. Van, you gave it a nine. I'm gonna get a little spicy here. I'm on the verge of a six or seven. Like I think... What?

Yeah. The movie wasn't bad. I hate child, bro. What? Bro, I really, I'm serious. Y'all. Who's y'all?

Who's y'all? Who's y'all? Who's y'all? Don't love me with them, bro. Yeah, I don't associate with me with this. What? What's wrong with the seven? Be for real.

Charles, be so for real. Oh, I'm not saying that this movie was bad, but it's just okay. Like, it was okay. Like, it did what it needed to do. And I think an eight puts it in a category that I really don't think it should be. I think it's a seven.

Okay. If I gave John Wick chapter four and eight, I can't also get Super Mario Brothers movie and eight. I mean, the Johnwick Chapter 4 rating is also ridiculous, but you're entitled. You're entitled to be who you are. That's fine. I only docked at one point.

You guys are acting like I'm calling it a three. All right. I'm going with nine. I'm sticking with nine. Okay. I had so much fun in the movie. I thought the movie was, innovative. I thought it was fun.

It's got what was the song of the year. I think I'm just kin kind of kicked it off the block a little bit. Peaches. We do need to give peaches their flowers. Yeah, peaches and I just say it again, when we talk about impact and how these movies impact 1.36

Billy, Billy, Billy. Impact just can't be money, though. We got impact just can't be. That's fair, but like, listen, illumination and everything, like, you are about to see so many Nintendo movies now. I mean, I agree. You're going to tell me that a Super Mario

Brothers movie isn't impactful? Like, it's going crazy. It's going crazy, Daddy. I find Steve, Mint Boys. I'm sticking with an eight for this. This was an absolute delight. Like, easiest aid of my life. This was, the Rotten Tomatoes score of this is still perplexing.

Not that I give too much credence to that, but like the fact that critics didn't seem to know what they wanted out of a Super Mario Brothers movie is actually befuddling. The fact that you can't have fun with this, I'm talking about critically is insane. I can't. It sticks for the day. So I thought that this episode would be fun, but it's just.

Oh, well, we're getting to some fun for sure. We're getting to some fun. Yeah, it's an eight. I'm sticking with it. It was what did you expect for Super Mario Brothers movie? Yeah, it's locked in. Right, right score. All right.

Mando season three, Van and Jomey gave it a seven. I gave it a five. Steve, I don't think you were on this episode. I was not. So you can give it a new score. This is the turning point of this entire pod. If y'all motherfuckers don't like keep it.

Shut up. So real. Shut up. Ben. Steve. Steve, play the clip. Play the clip. Remember?

I'm not going to shame nobody. The job of you at the top is not to bully people. That's why you're trying to. No, you're being a bad house. Ask the fucking question. And they get to it. Don't try to. compel people to bring

a score down. Foggy page all. Like Baviger page all off. Like shut up. I'm going down. This is because you can't

try to bully people into this. That's not the show isn't about making people do. I'm going down. I got to go down. I got to go down, man. I got to go down. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to

stall Mando out by only going down to six. I'm only going to go down to six. Wait, what bumped it down to a sex? Brough, I've been trying to rewatch Mando, bro, and it's just not happening. Bruh, it, dog, Charles, bro, Chuck Wagon, my guy, Jomi, my little bro, Steve, this activist. I've been trying to watch it, bro. Me and Kalika, have been trying to rewatch that bitch, and every time we rewit,

Spider-Man 2 gets cut on. I'm serious, bro. Is this the first Mando season that you can't re-watch? It's hard, dog. There's a couple of re-watchable episodes. It kind of gets... I'm still invested enough to say that it's a six. I'm still investing enough to say this is a six,

but, like, it's really not a... It's really not that good, bro. Really, it's a five. I got to go to five. I'm not being honest with you. Five? No, no. I was not expecting that.

I got it. I got to go to fun. It's literally three pretty dope episodes. Everything else is weird. It's off. There's some fun moments, but it really kind of. The entire Dark Sabre plot was like, yeah. What?

Like, did you just not get it? This is the biggest mulligan for me ever where the rewatch really, really hurting. Did you even make it to the episode where they find Bokatan and there's that whole weird fight? It's shit like that. when she like transfers where she just like says like he gave it to me and like it's just hearsay about the dark saber possession the fucking oh my god yeah i'm gonna have wait joey since you also have a seven where are you going i ain't a hold you this is tough for me because i i do enjoy the show but uh it's a five bro yeah it's a five yeah i'm i'm looking at i'm looking at

the Wikipedia. I'm looking at the episodes and like half like more than half like the title piss me off like I'm mad all over again, dog. When they got fucked up by all those monsters and when they just live right by on the beach where all the monsters live? I mean, you have the episode like you mentioned earlier where Boketan, where Dinn just like Hans Boketan, the Dark Sabers was like, yeah, there was a whole thing. He beat me, I be him, here you go here. It's a Dark Saber. And then like, what, two episodes later, the Dark Sabers destroyed, who cares? What was the point of any of that? You I mean, it's just bad, tough, tough scene,

but yeah, it's got to go down. All right. I'm stuck between keeping it out of five and ducking it a four. Listen, Charles, this is your biggest victory of the pod. So, yeah, I think I'm just going to have to go to a four. You know, I just think,

yeah, it speaks for itself. I then already said everything that I was going to say. Steve, you never gave this a score. I mean, this is clearly, this is very much a five. I'm with everybody here. To know that they missed the mark from seasons one and two

this hard. This actually felt like a cry for help because they just missed it. I don't, I didn't quite get what the whole what anything was in the latter half of the season. And it was like absolutely

majorly disappointing. majorly disappointing. It's like, it was like the Matt Rife of shows. It seemed, it seemed cool, but the more you look at it, nah, man, it's awful. Well, to be fair, in the moment, we're like, guess, what's going on? What was happening?

So, it didn't work out. Guardians of the Galaxy, volume three, is very interesting. I think this was one of our most beloved movies of the year. Dan gave it an 11. I gave it an 8. Both the Mint Boys gave it at 9. Then you were very, very high on this movie. We're keeping it at 11, going down or up.

This is a 12. I knew it. Wow. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. How, though. This is a perfect.

It's a 12. A 12? Yeah. A 12 is a game changing. I think, let me make my case. Okay. First of all, why it's a game changer. All right.

The movie was successful in a box office situation, but didn't cross a billion dollars. I don't think, so it's not a game changer from that situation. It is a cultural game changer in superhero films because it represents the remaining, it's the last thing that we have. It represents the remaining level of competence that superhero movies can't have.

It represents a perfect ending to a trilogy of movies. I believe it is the rare movie that elevates its predecessors. Listen to what I'm saying. So think about it. movies like Winter Soldier and Civil War. Those movies, when they came out, they made the original Captain America movie

feel and seem better because you reinvested into the character, right? Captain American movie's good, these movies make it feel better. This film had a perfect ending. It was a game changer in the sense that it was James Gunn's last Marvel movie, set the character on new journeys.

I personally believe that of the films that I've watched in the MCU, that this movie is by far, not as not, it's tied with endgame as being the most emotionally effective journey ever. It made me rewatch other films with these same characters in different ways. It really did. Well, I watched the movie and I think about who Rocket has always been. I think about Star Lord has always been. Gamora, all of that.

I think it's in rarefied air in terms of that. And it's just the hope. It's like the Luke Skywalker of movies. It's hope that they can still get it done. I think the movie's the best Guardians movie. I think it's one of the best movies that the MCU has ever made. Can we, can somebody pull up what our 12s are? That's crazy, Cope.

Like, what are our 12s? Because this is, like, I wasn't even going to argue over an 11. But the movies that you you personally block from a 12, come on. And that's the thing.

I feel like in a weird way, like there's this weird rarefied air that 12s for us, they're both, they're both ubiquitous and like we can't argue with it, but they're also innately personal where we have our own personal 12s

and I'm not, I'm not going to like debate Van about this making it for his personal 12. But, Like if we liken this to like a Lord of the Rings or like original Star Wars situation. Lord of the Rings, get off my balls. I'm just saying. This is putting it on the same level of an empire strikes back.

But that's the thing. I'm not going to, I'm not pushing Van on this. I'm not pushing back on the fact that you find. I'll push back. Yeah. That's crazy. You have, you have, we're going to get into a 12 that you have down here very next.

And I would say that that movie is not on the same level as an empire. Strikes Back. Within Hall of Famers, just to let you guys know, there's different levels of Hall of Famers, right? No, no, no, no. Because you, when we did our Midnight 12 episode, there was no in-betweens, there was no-

There's not. First of all, it didn't even cross the Billy. Like, what are we doing? I think the impact that it has, I think that you can either have all kinds of money, or you can be impactful. I think this movie's impactful for a lot of reasons. I think it's

impact on the MCU. It's impact on comic book movies, what it means with James Gunn and the whole narrative around the movie. I think it's a 12th. I adore the film. I think it's a 12th. Fuck you guys. And by the way, and by the way,

it doesn't have to be inducted into the Midnight 12th's Hall of Fame when we all agree with the movie is 12. No, stand on it. Stand on that show. No, I'm standing. Nicky, I'm standing on it. But I'm saying it's a 12 for me.

I'll rate the movie of 12. I'm giving it and 8. I'm just sticking with it. I love this movie, but it, it has stayed the same in my estimation. Mint boys? I'm working with a nine. I'm working with a nine.

I like it. I like the, you know, the rocket, Rockers journey, obviously is the central point in that film and I love Rocket. And so,

yeah, I'm gonna keep it at a nine. It's solid. It's good. I think I'll only bump this down one to an eight. That's good. I, like,

by no means, my most favorite thing that I saw this year, but I think when I, I do look back fondly on this movie, and I think it's one of the more braver late entry MCU movies, because it handles a lot of things pretty deftly.

It's really, really good, but it's just not quite a nine for me. Also, you guys ain't no animal lovers. I could tell you. That's the thing. Animal lover van really shined with the 12 here. Steve, you don't even like Bozeman that much. And it's obvious. This is a lie.

This is a lie. It's obvious. You want to know why I think it's actually good that Steve doesn't like Bowman that much? Again, Charles, what are you doing? I think he is, we're changing the narrative, you know, because they're always like,

black people don't like dogs, black people don't let dogs. And for the only white boy in the crew to hate the dog, you know what I'm saying? We're showing that there's growth. Well, I'll put it to you like this. I think that white people love dogs, and that's why in the 50s and 60s,

they were so kind in sharing their dogs with us. Doubt. Now, man. See, now they were so kind to introduce us. They wanted us to love dogs more

so they were like, hey, I'm not to play the drums. Because it's getting it's getting to the bridges right there. That's nuts. That's crazy.

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Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted vanilla and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. We're going to let Van go last for this one. Okay. Because he got beaten up when this movie came out.

We're doing Spider-Man across the the fact that people got this angry when we praised this movie this much it was fine for his life this this fucking episode was just it was a dark time for our mentions let's just put it that way joey this is your first 12 yeah of the year steve had a 10 i had it at an 11 then had it added at a 9 let's start with joe me you keeping this at a 12 guys um so the movie came out on netflix i had i bought the DVD blu-ray physical media you know for the win And I gotta be honest with you guys when being like really real, I would have given it a 13. I would have given it to the 14.

I love this film. I love this thing. This movie's incredible, right? You come off the first one, you're like, there's no way. There's no way they can reach the heights of the first one. There's no way that they can give something

like they did back in 2018 and fellas, they restored the feeling, baby. Oh my gosh. I watch this movie, I wish him at least once a week. I'd be like, man, I had a tough day. It's the gym.

My workout one. good enough, man. Chipotle bowl. I'm eating the sad. I'm like, I need to pick me up. Spider-Man, lock me in. How did you eat a sad? Let me tell you something.

Brother, sometimes the cheese and the lettuce and the meat and the beans and the rice don't hit the same. You feel me? And every single time, every single time Gwen and Miles swing through the city with that Dominic Fike song in the background, I'm like, I'm healed. I'm back. since we're on this and you're the resident milk merchant. Resident milk, but first of all, don't ever say that in your life.

Again, don't put that on me, Ricky Bobby. All right? I got to ask you a question. Have y'all seen the video Shameek Moore and Terestr Strong? Oh, man. My man is, somebody got to talk to Shameek real quick. How are you, how are you Spider-Man? You got no sauce, no juice.

That's crazy, bro. No juice. You just going to disres. He got no, he got, like, to quote the kids, he got zero Riz. It's crazy, bro. I love how Jomey's not even that comfortable was calling it Riz. My Spider-Man got gained, bro. My Spider-Man can pull.

I'm looking at the Spider-Man in the eyes. Stand up. Steve, what's your score? I'm keeping exactly where it is. I will call this a 10. It's a phenomenal movie. It can't be that phenomenal. It can't be that phenomenal.

Why isn't it in 11? kept the things that keep it from an 11 or 12, like say, uh, into, or sorry, enter. Is it enter? What, whatever the, into the first one? Don't even know that. Things that keep it from like the heights of the first one is the fact that for me, like the actual thrilling surprise and wonder that came from that first one can kind of only happen once.

And if you keep the exact same quality the second time, it's amazing. But I still know that that level of quality is coming. It was the inherent surprise and wonder that came from that first one that brings it up for me. And that keeps it at the low heights of a 10. We're keeping this at an 11. We're keeping this is the only reason it's not a 12 is because, well, it's just not a perfect film. I think Into is just better. But I saw this twice in theaters, both time I was blown away.

I think it actually got better on rewatch, which rarely do these movies ever do. I think Oscar Isaac in Spider-Man 2099 is amazing. I think just how far they push miles. This has to be an 11. I'm not changing it. Now, then, you gave this, let's be clear, when you originally gave this a 9, people acted like you had killed their puppy.

It was a dark, dark day for you. Before you get into your news score, do you have anything to say to those people who so unfairly came after you? I don't think it was unfair. I think the movie meant a lot to a lot of people, and they were shocked that it didn't mean that much to me, that the movie, to me, for whatever reason,

didn't land like it landed with other people. And I think that that's okay. I think that it's actually a positive thing that people are so connected to something that they want everyone else to feel like they feel. and I feel like this is a nine. Still, it's,

it's, I enjoy the movie. It's a nine out of ten. I don't know what you guys want me to. It's a nine out of ten. Is it better than the killer and killers of the firemen? Yes. It's better than both of those movies.

It's better than a little snooze fest from these guys. But the movie is great, amazing. It's brilliant. It's all of those things. And that's, those are things that a nine could be. they're parts of the movie that don't work as much for me.

I think they try to go a little bit bigger and I think sometimes a little bigger got confused with fatter. The movie is fatter than the first movie, but I don't think that it's like necessarily bigger or better, right? And so I think, you know, and maybe this is a nine so the next one can be in 11. I think whenever we get that movie, whether it's, you know, 2031 or 233,

whenever it ends up dropping. We'll see. But to me, this is a nine. It's a nine. Nine. Yeah, guys, come with a special. I don't even know why this is here, but we did give it a midnight.

I remember the million dollar baby. I remember it. Million dollar baby, a movie that Jomey had never seen until this year. Jomey, you gave it a 10. Steve and I gave it a nine. They gave it a one.

Jomey, are you sticking with 10 for a million dollar baby? Movie just meant me sad, man. like it just just like takes all the the energy out of me just thinking about her making that that rise to in the box of the world and then like a chair being like that's enough i've seen enough of that uh i'm gonna stick with the 10 because it's a great film it just um it's depressing it's ultimately what i all i can say about it so yeah i'm thinking with nine then are you still giving this a one uh no it's a negative one I'll never, ever, ever look at it again.

Obviously, the movie is well made, well acted, and everything. But the ending of the film is so unsettling. It's so out of nowhere. It's so, it's like asking the question, would you want somebody to massage your balls really nicely before they kick the shit out of them? You know what I mean? Who is on the other end of the character?

Like what woman? It's a horse. And there you go. And that's how you know Charles is a F-R-E-A-K-free. I know what kind of call, Charles is like, oh, we're some high heels and stop on them, baby. I know the type of shit Charles is into. But no.

And if that would have happened, it wouldn't matter how good the ball massage is or whatever. All you will remember is the pain. And that's the only thing I remember from this movie is the pain. I'll never look at it again. It's whack to me. How about that? It's a negative one.

I'm glad Jomey was able to experience it around the same age that I was able to experience it in theaters when I left the movie cursing everyone out. You saw in theaters. That's tough. Steve, you're keeping it out of nine? Yeah, I'll keep it at nine. All right. Now this, all right, this is separate the wheat from the chap, the boys from the men. We got the flash next.

then you originally gave it a seven. I gave it a three. Both the Mint Boys gave it a five. We'll start with the Mint Boys. Now that the year is over, you're sticking with five for a flash, you're going up, you're going down. I got to go down.

I got to go down. I got to go four. Both of y'all are giving it a four? Three for me. Three. A three, Steve. It's a three. So we're talking about just on the strength of the movie.

Yes. Yes. There are very, very, very, very few redeeming qualities about this movie. And it was depleted. And it's just so grating the things that are bad. Like it makes it worse. Steve, you can just say it, bro.

It's a two-pack. It's a two-pack ass. Real, real bad. Like, it's just what it is. The Azra Miller of it all. Like, it truly is like a grading performance and something that, like, I just cannot get behind for most of them. I don't understand is how they were like, and you know how, you know how Barry is

annoying. Let's make two of them. And one way more annoying than the other. Oh my God. And then not only is Barry annoying, the second Barry is even more annoying, but then that Barry is like, well, bro, you're annoying. And it's like, dog, the call is coming from inside the house. Like, be so for real. Like, it's terrible. To say nothing of like the CGI Cameo Fest that happened at the end, which the last 30 minutes of this movie are a crime. I find more offensive now. The Nicholas Cage, Eastern

is just it's so bad so bad and what and the reason why especially because we did that we do the pod and then you like start thinking about it

I'm like Nicholas like some of the actors they got to see Gai stuff are dead right like so you kind of I don't have

any options it's not ideal it's weird but sure whatever that's what you want to do that's what you need you want to do

Nicholas Cage is still with us he is breathing he's making films you could have called them up on a Tuesday hey come to the studio for fit we need you for 15 that's it for 15

and they couldn't do that nah bro terrible terrible film so I gotta I gotta go down 0 4 I'm going down to it too I just this movie wasn't it I don't I've already written about it said enough Van you're our highest score now

at a 7 you maintain it nah it's a 5 I tried I watched the movie and then I looked at it again and it was grotesque. I'm sorry guys, I apologize to everyone.

Was it more grotesque at home? Yeah, I think in the theater, I think in the theater, you know, I was in there and I was kind of waiting for the, for it to fall off super hard and I kind of didn't feel like it did. The Christopher Reeve thing,

for some reason, worked in the theater and then when I got home, after thinking about it for a second, it was like not. I was tripping. You guys, look, I like movies, guys. I want to go to the theater. It's like almost when I sit down,

the movies already, too. You know, I like being in the movies. I like being in the theater. I like having fun. I like the laughs. I like all of that stuff. You really got to shit the bed to make me not really fuck with your film.

You know, you even got to come in with a ton of pretentious bullshit, Killers of the Flower Moon, all of that type of stuff. Oh, it's the best thing ever, whatever. The shit was all right. You know what I mean?

You got to, You got to come in with that. But normally when I sit down for a superhero movie, I'm looking to have fun. I'm not looking to pick the movie apart and then floss with the bones. But when I was at the crib, me and Bozeman sitting down, my dog pal, looking at the movie and he barks that, this sucks. And I'm like, yeah, Bozeman, dad gave me the seven. He embarrassed himself.

It's a five. I'm sorry, everyone. I apologize for this rating. It's definitely a five. The movie's terrible. It's not good at all. The baby sting is ridiculous. The effects are pretty bad.

the characters don't really work. I think in the movie, maybe I got a little Batman love going to. That didn't even work on the rewatch. I rewatch it a couple of times. But anyway, it sucks. All right. So the next one we have,

I rarely do this. And Van, I want you to mark this, Steve. Van is always like, Charles don't know when I admit when he's wrong. Charles will never admit when he's wrong. Van kind of had a point about this next movie. Mission Impossible,

dead wrecking part one. Y'all just don't know Ball. I think I Van gave this a seven I gave this an eight Jomey had a nine Steve had a six I think I wanted

this movie to give me the feeling that Top Gun Maverick did I think it was a weird time when it came out I was burnt out on the superhero shit I just wanted to feel a certain type of feeling this movie was not bad at all

this movie was not bad at all I still enjoyed it a lot I just think we graded it a little bit on a curve I think I got to come down to like a seven. This movie was fine. It was passable. But yeah, I think Van was initially right.

I think we kind of, we were grading this a little bit with rose-colored glasses. Boom. Oh, yeah. That fair? I think so. Van, you're keeping it out of seven? Mission Impossible. They're reckoning?

No. It's a fucking six. Like the... Yeah. Let's go. It got worse. It's just. It's a six?

Yeah. Zero ball knowledge. Oh, I'm happy right now. We try to watch it again. It's not a very good movie, guys. You gave Ant Man and the Wasp the 7. I like Ant Man on the Wasp better than I like Mission Impossible. Oh, no, all right.

That's great. That's not serious podcast. That's not serious. That's not serious. No, no, no, no. You mean a contrarian a little bit this episode, Van. Come on. How about being a contrarian?

No, I like this from you, Van. I like this. It's a way better movie. This is crazy. I mean, maybe to you guys. I think Dead Reckoning is weird and it's not very good. And I think when you watch the movie, the constraints that the pandemic put on the shoot are so, so apparent. Bing Rames is not in the same room as anybody else.

And by the way, we all saw the movie on a midnight screening here in L.A. with the Midnight Movie Society, Society. You guys don't even know what the Midnight Movie Society is. They have no idea. They have no idea. You guys have no clue what our society is. You don't know a group of people going into AMC theaters at night in the middle of the night watching movies. You're saying that we're like some eyes wide shot cult.

I'm telling you, they don't even know what the midnight. They don't know what it is. They don't. Let's keep it a secret. Like, y'all, you guys aren't a part of it. So you don't know what it is. Okay. So I'm saying.

It was me, I'm a part of it. Jomey's a part of it. Steve's a part of it. You guys don't know what the midnight movie society is, baby. You don't fuck with us like. that. Shout out to the people involved. Mint boys, where are you going with? Dead Rock. But hold on. Last thing I'll say is when I saw the movie right away, right away, me and

Steve were laughing. Sympatica. We're like, in the movie. We did not like the movie. I don't like the movie that much. No. Fuck it. On paper, the sequences are cool, really cool. The car chase in Italy looks great. Like the spectacle of it. I can't argue with a lot. But man, this isn't great by Mission Impossible standards. I would call this like the second worst one. That's nuts. Second worst is nuts.

Second worst is, come on. It's not. It's not. I keep it a six. That's way too much dip on the chair. I'm going to stay with a nine. I love it. I think it's great.

Legitimately, one of my favorite films of 2023. I had an absolute blast When I kind of Mission Impossible I came to see two things Tom Cruise run and Tom Cruise do crazy life death-defining stunts and he did that and so I was locked in

from the jump. You can throw what McGuffin at me you can do whatever nobody was like the knock list we do this stuff all the time guys it's cool it was a key it was a dumb key whatever I was locked in he wore a mask

come on this is right here. This is what it's all about. The Flash and Missing Impossible. Tom Cruise lies two times. It's going to come out in 40. The next one is going to come on in 40 years, and we're going to go to space.

It's going to be incredible. I'm going to sit around my mind y'all. Y'all was hating. Y'all was hating. On the man. Talking about hating, let's go to Barbaheimer, the biggest thing in movies and culture this year. Barbie, Van, you gave it an 11.

Show me had a 10. Steve was an 11, and I was a 7. then you keeping it at an 11 you're going up so here's the here's the thing about Barbie Barbie the question about Barbie is whether or not it's a good enough movie to be a 12

I would agree with this here because it is a 12 in almost every single 12 worthy metric culturally you mean cultural phenomenon yes cultural phenomenon when you think about what

the box office was like this year and how Barbie was able to like achieve still still like the conversations around Barbie the award season chatter around Barbie all of that stuff makes Barbie literally a 12 but it's just and it's really

really really good really good it ain't no gardens in the gallery I mean, I do agree with this. If we're talking in a vacuum, like a non-hater vacuum, if we take, because I agree with you, like culturally, if we're talking about the ceiling that it raised on movies, the type of movies that are getting made, I cannot argue with it. But if we're in a vacuum of like just movie, like what we saw on the screen, can it be an artistic

12? And I don't know if it can. I don't think it can. I think it's an artistic 11th. I think it's an artistic 11. I really love the movie. So you're sticking with 11. I really loved it. I'm sticking with an 11.

Okay. I was very tempted to go up to 12. I'm sticking with an 11. I'm sticking with 10. I'm sticking with 10. I think 10's the right level of, you know, cultural impact, how fun the movie is,

how, you know, the movie's message is very well done. But I'm going with it. I'm going with 11. Sorry, stick it with the 10. Sorry. I'm sticking with an 11 as well. because Barbie was the movies this year. Like, it was.

Like, it gave. Wasn't even the best movie that came out that weekend, though. But see, here's the thing, though, Jomey. I don't understand how you can give Barbie a 10. Because it wasn't the best movie to come out that weekend. So they could both be. Get to that. So they could both be.

But everything that Barbie meant culturally, that doesn't get into an 11 for you? Nah. Just wasn't good enough for you? It really was. Like, here's the thing. I just, I went and I saw both movies. Like in the, don't play to me. That's crazy.

I'm not even, I didn't even give it the lowest score. No, don't play, Steve. This is not even there. The lowest score. Charles. That's crazy. We haven't got to Charles yet. You haven't even got to Charles yet.

Hold on. Whoa, you can't play for, you can't play for Jomey. Steve, play it right now. You absolutely can't play. You get Guardians of the Galaxy, volume three or 12. We're not playing it for Jome. No, we're playing it for Jomey because, let me tell you why we're playing it for Jome. Let me tell you why we're playing it for Jomey, okay?

We're playing it for Jomey. because Jomey can't quite put his finger on what makes the movie not good. And it might because his name is Jomey. And he hates him in. Come on. True. Yeah.

You can keep that shit running. I'm keeping my shit out of seven. I'm not budging on. That's nuts, man. A seven is nuts. That's nuts. Y'all ain't real movie watches like that. Can be honest with you like seriously?

about this, like, in a real way. I took a lot, I've taken a lot of shit for some of the movies that I've rate. And I get it. And it's, it's rightly so, right? Like, rightly so. I get it. I like movies. I like to like movies. Whatever, whatever. My Spider-Verst take, to me, is

much less controversial than giving Barbie a seven. How? Yeah. I would agree. I would agree, too. No, no, no, no. Because here's the thing. Here's the thing. If this is just how I grade movies, there is cultural impact. But just me personally watch,

nigger, I can't eat cultural impact. That shit don't pay my bills, okay? If I'm talking about just the movie, if I'm talking about the movie, if I enjoyed it or not, like I had fun, I liked certain parts of it, and I think Greta Gourke is so talented.

I can't wait to see what she does next, no bomb back, all of their pens. Ryan Gosling did an amazing job. Everybody in this movie did an amazing job. I just think narratively, it just fell apart to me. It did not feel like a movie to me.

It felt like an event, but like, narratively speaking, I was like, this movie does not make a lot of sense. Okay, just real quick, and I don't want to, you don't have to defend, but like what about it didn't make sense?

I think, like I would have got, it was almost like this movie wanted to be elf a little bit, but then it wanted to do, have this journey where it's like, all right, well, Barbie's trying to go to the real world. And then she goes to the real world. And then she goes back to Barbie world.

And it was bouncing all around. And I was like, I never kind of got to the heart of the film. Even the America or Ferreira big monologue at the end. I was like, this seems a little on the nose. That's the worst part of the movie. Where I was just like, that takes me out where I'm just like, you could have, that could have just been handled more definitely because I think both credit and Noah are so talented. And I also think certain things that took me out of the movie were like the whole Mattel bit with all of the execs.

I was like, this is a little. I love that. I was like, this is not hitting it comedically for me. And then I think the last thing is like, it's unfortunate to say this. Your movie is called Barbie. And if Ken ends up becoming the best part of the movie, I think that's a fatal flaw. Especially now that people like, are we getting a Ken spin off? Are we getting a Ken spin off?

I'm like, was it Barbie supposed to be the movie that's, centering women and their journey. And all we can talk about this award season and everything is Ryan Gosling, Ryan Gosling, when are we going to get more? His song, da-da-da-da. That to me points to kind of some of the failures of it a little bit. Not a bad movie. Just a seven.

Charles, can I really suggest that you see poor things before the year is out? Oh, I can't. I am tapped in. I can't wait to see. Because I think of the, like, it's on a lot of the things that you're kind of talking about when it comes to Barbie. And I'm not outwardly comparing Barbie and poor things. but you will find a lot of similar things

when you talk about poor things and Barbie. Can I ask your question? Yeah. Is the Dark Knight a 12th? Yes. Does it the Joker completely outshine Batman in that movie? So here's what I would say in defense of that is that if Barbie as a movie, right,

if the thing that we are actually rewarding it for, culturally speaking, even if some of the politics even in it, I'm like, I get it is for kids, but sometimes it's a little flimsy. If the movie is about women and it's about centering women, and if at every single point, Ken and the Ken's are kind of coming into, not even stop the momentum, they give the movie more momentum. I do think that is a problem. I even think just in terms of our society,

people are more excited or at least keep asking Ryan Gosling, when are we getting the Ken movie now? And I'm like, when did this become the Ken movie? This is Barbie's movie. But do you realize, though, that even the fact that that's happening almost makes the movie's point? Like, it, like, that. But that doesn't really, what I'm saying is the narrative that a supporting character taken over, that means all the times in great movies.

Like, the fact that that doesn't undercut the film, though, unless you do it does. Because, narratively, I think, is because I don't know if the movie ever figured out Margot Robbie's Barbie. In terms of, like, her emotional core to the film. I think there's so much visually going on and there's so many jokes and there's so many things that do work. But I never let the movie feeling like Margot Robbie's Barbie was caring in the film enough, either thematically or emotionally. And I think that that can happen if there's a sequel. I just think that that is what I needed the movie to work for me outside of all the cultural shit.

And it's like, I'm not saying this is a bad movie. It's just like a seven. It was like, okay, I enjoyed it. But if we go to Oppenheimer, then you gave it a 10. I gave it an 8. Jomey gave it an 11. Yeah.

Steve, were you not here? Oh, you hadn't seen it yet. I hadn't seen it yet, no. I'm going up to a 9. I think this, I'm going up to a 9. I really enjoyed Oppenheimer. And I think the more I think about it, the better the movie gets.

and I do think the beginning sequence might be my favorite scene when he's like seeing the world differently and that beautiful score hits in and he's like seeing like the atoms and the beating of the drums and these melodies of the world I just, it's my favorite scene of the year.

I'm giving this a nine. Oppenheimer to me is the quintessential tin. Really, really, really good movie. Not like the movie of the year this year but just really, really, really, really good. Like, I, three hours, Zoomed past. I was in there

for every scene, but doesn't have that little extra gear to be an 11 or a 12. Is he, can I ask this, where does Oppenheimer rank in the Nolan filmography? That's a good question. Because to me, it's not top three, but almost

what is the top three? It might end up becoming one of his most defining films, especially if he wins best director. What is the top three Nolan films to you? Inception. Probably number one still. Number two.

You have inception over the Dark Night? Yes. Okay, cool. Dark Night probably two. I get it. And I think Interstellar maybe number three. Wow. Maybe he was waiting. I was waiting for you to

piss me off. Oh, maybe? Oh, God. Damn, Steve. What's wrong? What's wrong? I got beef with Interstellar. I'm to like, Interstellar was the thing

that like broke me from Nolan Schick as, as the shit. Like, no, I really, I do not fuck with Interstellar at all because it's just like,

oh, you're just going to do the same thing for every movie. And you're, it's going to get worse every time. I'm, I'm fucking, I'm fucking done with Interstellar.

Wait, you're putting, what's wrong with? All right. So what's your top three? Then Steve? The top three Nolan movies, it would be probably

dark night. prestige. Prestige at two? I love the prestige, man. I love the prestige. The prestige is a good film. It is not top three. It's top five probably. Not top three. I can see that. I can see that. Top five. Prestige. And Intercell is better than the prestige, but continue. Number three. I'll put, I'll put memento then. Memento. All right. I respect that. Interesting. Interesting. What are you, what are you grading this? I gave it 11 and I'm going to keep it at 11. Ultimately, what it is for me? me is, do you think

like the, do you think the movie is all about the bomb, right? It's just all about the bomb. The bomb goes off. And for a split second, like, man, we still got an hour. What's going on? But then Robert Downey Jr. show up. I mean, he's been there the whole movie, but we start

focusing on like what he, like, his entire deal is. And I was like, oh, oh, I'm still locked in. Oh, let's go. They're still cooking. And for a movie, again, that we all, every time coming in. Can we see the bomb explode? For it to be, for that to be like only like

two thirds of the film, and it's still the last third of the film, still has you hooks, she has you going. Man. I also didn't know Oppenheimer was slinging dick like that, which is also like something that. He's doing his thing. He's putting it down, okay? So Steve, what is your, what is

your score then? I score this in eight. This is an eight to me. But Barbie's an 11? Yeah, you're not serious. Whoa. Whoa. I'm very serious. I'm very serious. Yeah, not serious. Barby's an 11? And this movie is an eight? Yeah. Is it eight?

That's not serious. That's not serious podcasting. So you say I'm an op and I'm an abenheim is an eight? Yes. An eight? Yes. That's he. It's not for real.

That's, see? No, what you're doing here? I understand what's going on. See, Steve's got an agenda. You know what I'm saying? You got a Christopher Nolan agenda and you're letting influence what you think about the film. If I told you that Joe Schmo directed this, you'd be like, oh, that's a tag. I'd be like, wow, he's doing a pretty good Christopher Nolan thing.

I don't want to, as soon as... Steve's been on some shit this episode. As soon as Steve see Christopher Nolan, it's a minus two. No. It's a minus two on a minute. Listen, I do have beef with Nolan. And this is genuinely... No, and this is really like a good movie.

It's a very good movie. And it's honestly like one of the better ones that he's come out with in the past few years. And you gave it an eight. Yeah. Are you hearing your... Mm-hmm. Hey, man, it's the best we've ever seen. It's fantastic.

I loved every second of it. You gave the Super Mario Brothers movie. I didn't say that I loved every second of it. I didn't, I did not say that. That's crazy. So you think that this movie artistically is on the same level of Super Mario Brothers. Yes. That's what you're telling me.

Yo, by the way, can I be honest with you guys? You know, when you guys say that, it's kind of like odd when you say that, right? It's like, it's like Lamar Jackson is an elite quarterback and fucking, I don't know, Justin Herbert is an elite quarterback, but for different reasons. right? Like they're in lead but for different reasons they get it done

in different ways. Yeah, like Super Mario Brothers is such a different movie from Oppenheimer. Yeah. That movie can be an eight for what it is

and Oppenheimer can be an eight for what it is which Oppenheimer is not a fucking eight. But it's like, it's not an eight. The movie is like legitimately not an eight.

Like, can I be real? Josh, what did you say, man out there for you, bro? Mm-hmm. To be real,

what is logical about the midnight meter? You know what I'm saying? Nothing. Nothing. Right. Yeah. So what I'm saying is why it is crazy to rate Oppenheimer an 8th.

That's crazy. It's not crazy. It's not crazy. It's not crazy to think that somebody thinks that Super Mario Brothers is better. You know, an 8 is a really bad score for Oppenheimer. I mean, it's my, like, and this is my Nolan bias coming through because where I'm like, he is so, Nolan is so, so good. at giving us a plot that is both complex, interesting, and somehow easy to follow.

In every single one of his movies, it's like he gives us rules, stakes, and consequences. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Have you watched Tenet recently? No, no, no. Listen, listen, listen. That's the crazy shit. Tenet to my top four.

Bro, I still. Tenet to your top four, John. I love Tenet. No one does that with every single movie. He tries to give you this complex. are insanely hard to follow, bro. I have to read a, I have to read a fucking book to understand interstellar. And I look to theater like, who's that?

Am I dumb? No. Here's the thing. It's the power of love, man. It's like, based on how good he presents these things, character falls into like maybe four of his movies that actually count. Oppenheimer, to me, is like the very first one that was like in a long time where a character actually counted when it came to both all of those.

plot, stakes, consequence, and rules. Memento has it. Inception does not. Tenet certainly doesn't fucking have that. Interstellar does not. It's all plot. I'd argue that Inception does. I'd argue that the driving, and I want to make this whole Nolan podcast, I'd argue that the driving,

the driving narrative of Inception is, is the fact, is his trauma, is the fact that everything that has to do with the dream world and all of that stuff like that, that it ended up killing it. why. Right. But so when I bring it to Oppenheimer, I'm like, okay, he obviously has this amazing tapestry of Oppenheimer's life that he wants to present of like all of the things that he's both discovered, his personal politics, his personal struggles. All of that is carried by Killeen Murphy's incredible performance, movies on his back. Emily Blunt is incredible. Florence Pugh, great. It's just I keep seeing all of this like, these like things that want to be

presented as like overly complex or overly dramatic when they don't necessarily need to be and it felt like you know like baby's first foray into like sorkin in certain aspect okay all right big pick steve over here steve fennessy all right that's fair that's fair guys next oh boy all right secret invasion baby let's go joe me and steve gave it a five i gave it a four I'm not even going to belabor this point. It's a two. Yeah. It's a two.

It's a three. It's a three. It's a three. Man, it's, ah, man. Dog. Is this Jomi's first one? It legitimately might be like a zero. Like, I'm not even fucking with you, bro.

Like, let me ask you a question. What's the best episode of Secret Invasion? Like, if you had, if you had to make somebody watch Secret Invasion, by giving them an episode of the show that you feel like was strong enough to get them hooked on the show. What's the best episode of Secret Invasion? Maybe the first one. Probably the best moment, whatever.

It's just not a strong, it's not, it's not, it didn't work. It just didn't work. So what are you giving it, Joe? I got to give it to. Like, it's, especially after the Marvels and like all the hubbub that came up with that were like, what happens to the chicken invasion? Ooh. I'm like, bro, what was the point?

Like, what was the point of any of that? you know what I mean like we could have we could have not watched chicken invasion and been fine going into the Marbles or honestly any other Marvel property do you think Rodi's been a scroll since Secret Invasion or since Secret Invasion since Civil War

I don't fucking care exactly I'm like I don't I don't care I don't care I don't care I'm waiting to see my man Rody do his thing and armor wars I think Armour Wars is going to be really really good and I can't wait but it was a

misuse of Rody. I mean, to be honest with you, that character was kind of the coolest thing about the show. Honestly. Is he or, yeah. I don't know. The Scrawl Rody was violent. Which is,

I liked it because it harkens to some of like Don Chittles' earlier work. I don't know if you guys seen House of Lies, but he's a dick in House of Lies and it's fantastic. I love, I love that. But outside of that, I'm like, I know he's a scroll. That's very obvious he's a scroll. That's not how Rody acts.

No, Rody. never act like that before. So this reveal that you're going to pull on me in three episodes, I'm not to, gasp, he's going to scroll the whole time. Sacred blood, like,

cool, I know that's coming, right? You did not get me. Like, it's just not working. Didn't work. Next up,

we have Teenage Muti Turtle's, mutant mayhem. I gave it an eight. The rest of the Midnight Boys gave it a nine. Going to keep this really quick. I'm raising mine to a nine. I really love this movie. I love it even more now.

I'm going to keep a simple. Nine. I'm sticking with my nine. It's a nine. I mean, like, I really liked it a lot. It's a nine.

And you guys, a nine is a great score. That's a great score. Yeah. You gave, you gave Spider versus the nine. So yeah. A nine.

You enjoyed it. You look like your plot and like you, like you were about to. I want to give it. I'm going to give it a 10. Hell yeah. Okay. I respect that.

I really like coming out of it. It was like, it was solid. I enjoyed it. But then looking at, uh, rewatching it again at the cribbo. I was like,

man, this movie's fun, it's just like oodles and noodles of fun. I love that the teenagers or teenagers I mean, they do that. That whole bit on New York. Yeah, baking a nigga cheese.

Bigging a cheese. With the bag. With the bag. With the bag. Like, it's just like, it's just really fun, man. Like, yeah, so I'm rocking with a 10. Steve?

Nine. Nine. It's still a nine for me. Like, I'm fucking astounded at how good this was. And another thing where I was just like, oh man, I hope they nail it because they're really trying to go for that Spider-Verse thing. They're really trying to make the, like,

unique art style, charm. It does it, man. It's great. It's exceptional. All right. This one, you know, we're going to have to get it a little real, guys.

Asoka. Van gave it a seven. Jomi gave it a seven. Steve and I both gave it sixes. If I speak, I'm going to be in big trouble. I can't give Mando season three or four and leave this at a six.

Because I think these were both had similar problems. So I think I'm going to give this. Osoka, I think, had a lot more going for it than Mando season three. I would agree. I would agree. I'm giving it a four. I, I, I know, I would, I would keep this at a six for me because, like, I think Dave Villaloney has a, it does have a very good understanding about, like, what makes some good character moments tick in his projects. Ultimately, I think it was a bit of a miss. I think that this, like, it just didn't, it could not land the plane. It doesn't

crash and burn, but like, it's losing a tire and maybe a wing or something. It's, like, it's, it's not land in real good. That ending was not good. If I speak, I'm in big trouble, and I don't want to be in big trouble. Just fucking do podcasting. It's a six. I think, and I mean, you know, you guys can go back to the pod where I do my whole thing about she's not for sensitive, yada, yada, yada.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is, for me is she, she's like a Mandalorian. She's so cool. She's already badass. She didn't need to be a Jedi. Like forget all the lore. Forget all the Middachlorian stuff. You don't need to be a Jedi to be cool in Star Wars.

Like, come on. You know, we were like, yeah, man, some being. She can shoot guns and she can use explosives. And then she just forgot how to do all that stuff. and was like, like, there's a scene in episode four. I'll put you across the Grand Canyon now. There's a scene in episode four when she's fighting Shinn, Shanhadi, and she's using all her Mandalorian powers, her Mandalorian stuff.

And we're like, hey, that's what I'm talking about, man. You got to, we back, baby, we back. And just like, cool, hey, thanks for all that. But you kind of need to be a Jedi right now to first solve a problem. Despite the fact they got Ezra back, right? Why do you need Ezra? why do you need Ezra if you're just going to be a Jedi too? You know what I mean?

Like it just, it's a whole bunch of things that put together. I love, you know, Balin, the rest of the peace, Ray Stevenson. Like, even though his, you know, arc wasn't all the way fleshed out, I still think it was mighty interesting. And I would love to, you know, hopefully see where that goes with the new actor if that's what they decide to do. But at the end of the day, man, it didn't, like, like Steve said, the plane didn't land, the car didn't get into the drive,

away in one piece. Ultimately, it was something that we thought could be really cool, and it ended up just being for show, really, and the substance wasn't really there. So got to lower to a six. I stick with seven. Asoka is, has more good than it does bad in the show to me. I think it's one of those rare things that, like, give you guys a sports analogy. Osoka is like a player that scores 25 shots, that scores 25 points on, I don't know, nine of 16 shooting, but they missed their last four shots in the fourth quarter. And then it's like, just how do you view the game, right?

Overall, it's a solid game. You shot a pretty decent percentage from the field. You were better the whole night when, then, um, then you were bad. But in the end, when people are really, really paying attention and wondering,

okay, what are you going to do? You whimper and you lose. And so a lot of people are going to go, hey, that player is not the reason why they lost the game. It wouldn't even been in the game

without that player. And other people are going to go, well, when we really needed to see what was going to happen, didn't show up. Are you calling the, Osoka James Harden?

No, because James Harden would just, in the whole game, game seven, he would just lay a complete break. He'd be one for 16 in the game. Like, if he was playing Washington on January 17th, on a random Wednesday night, scores 97 points.

Yeah. But, you know, when you, like, when it matters, though. Yeah. But in this, so I don't want to look at the entire game as being bad. The entire show wasn't bad. The show had the opportunity had it landed its penultimate, a little bit more. and its finale to be much, much better. The show could have been a nine.

It was building momentum towards being a really great show. And it just kind of whimpered out. But I still say what I saw, I liked. And I would rate it a seven. A seven closer, honestly, to an eight than to a six. Okay. All right, Loki season two. Everybody gave it a nine, except me who gave it a seven.

I'm sticking with a seven. Okay. Okay. Why? Why are you smiling? No, I mean, I get it. Like, you're sticking with a seven. It's a seven.

It's a seven. Talk me down. Why do you think, why do you think a seven is unfair? Because it's just really good. I think we are, I think we are forgetting some of the very wheel spinny first couple episodes. Or I was like, yo, where's this going? Where's it going? Where's it going? That's why I get this.

All right. Let's do this real quick with Loki. Because I'm assuming everybody else has Loki, a nine or you guys going down? I'm not going down. I keep it at nine. Okay. So let's do this real quick to Charles's point. Let's talk about Loki.

Let's give us like 90 seconds on Loki. What are the worst parts of Loki to you, Charles? I think the timely whimy shenanigans definitely got on my nerves, them having to like explain and re-explain. I think I don't want to say the character assassination of Sylvie, but I think what we got of Sylvie in season one to see what happened to her character in season two. in terms of how she was written is just, it was egregious. And I think, uh,

I think Jonathan Majors, Victor Timely was that performance was bad. Like that was a real, I was just like, but it's, it's weird because in that finale, when he's, he remains,

it's, we're right back to season one, he remains. Like it's, exactly. It's flipping a switch. We don't get that for most of the season. I understand.

So if you're telling me, Victor timely, I wasn't really fucking with, Sylvia. I wasn't really fucking with. And then the entire structure of the season in terms of like explaining what the loom is, always having to go back and forth

and doing all this shit, it's a seven because those are really big pillars to not work. That's a fantastic case. I say that the show is a nine because it delivered drama stakes resolution. This honestly illustrates the point of nailing your finale

while stumbling through. the middle a bit. Because if Asoka did what Loki did, we'd be having an entire different conversation with Asoka. Whereas like... If it were flipped, because you feel like Asoka was great in the middle and then at the end it was bad.

Whereas... Loki might have meandered in the middle, but God damn it if it didn't slam dunk at the end. That is fair. I think that's why I'm keeping it out of seven. Because I think to your point, Loki season two, even if I didn't like all of it, I ended up viewing the entire

series with more warmth. and held it in a certain regard. Whereas to your point with Asoka, because they did not land the ending, it made me more mad and almost made me judge the good episodes a little more harshly. Now, the marvels, the marvels.

Van, you gave it a seven. I gave it a five. Jomey gave it a seven. Steve gave it a six. Respectfully, respectfully, I do this with so much love. I think it might have to be a three. Have you seen the movie again?

Yo. I'm never seen. Wait, wait, wait, so, so see what I'm saying? Wait, wait, wait, wait. A three is crazy. Hold on for a second. Steve. Hold on for a second.

Steve. Steve. No, don't. Because, because what is the, first of all, if you haven't seen the movie again, why would you drop the score? Because, all right, because here's the thing. The more I've thought about this movie

and the more, if I'm going to be honest, you do that first. party like though they're already going to be on my ass because here's what happens if if it's like a soak or whatever everybody's just like charles's politics are fucked up because this has a woman in it and he didn't like i'm like no i just didn't like it because it just didn't work and the more i think about this movie the more i'm like it falls apart i feel the same way about this that i do quantum mania the flash where it just it makes me think that were actually cooked when it comes to these superhero movies

where you have a great performance in the center of it with Miss Marvel and it's just you pile on the Easter eggs and the cat's musical references and all this other shit and I'm like you had a heartwarming story and you didn't believe in it enough. I'm sorry, it just...

All right. All right. What? I got to stick with a seven. intuitively, I want to drop it because I really feel like that maybe my seven was a reaction to the fact that the movie wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. But essentially, I don't have any reason to drop the film

because I haven't seen it again and I have fun while I was watching it. And my seven came from that place. So I'm keeping it a seven. I feel like this is when we start to get like back towards like the latter end of the year. We should like have this carryover into next. next year's minnie mulligans because recency bias is more or less not going to change

these scores too much. If we get to the blue-eyed samurai and the Godzilla minus ones of our of our ratings, I'm like, I doubt that we've gone down like crazy. But that being said, for mine, it's still a six because I, again, I haven't paid this movie much attention in my mind.

And it hasn't really stuck with me, but it certainly has a lot good going for it. But yeah, it's a six. I'm going to keep it a 7 because I liked what I liked and I didn't like what I didn't like and a lot of the stuff that I liked

I liked a lot. So yeah, I'm like with a 7. I haven't seen it again too but I really do enjoy it. I enjoyed like a good chunk of the movie. Now I'll be else with you guys. Hold on just real quick, Charles.

I see we have Invincible Blue Eyes Samirai and Godzilla minus 1. I say we saved those. Like there hasn't been enough time. You guys think there's been enough time to Mulligan those? Well, I think Charles,

I think Steve should give his I want to give my Invincible Season 2 halfway score. Yeah. And then I have, instead of doing these three, I'm going to throw a very quick lightning round for you, all right? So, Steve, what's your invincible halfway season two meter? Jomey, you gave it a nine, Van gave it a nine, I gave it a seven. I don't think any of us are going to change it.

But Steve? I'm going to give you this an eight. Really, really enjoyable, rock solid show. Like, it's been firing on all cylinders. I'm just like, I'm really just kind of annoyed that it's half of a season. and it's very much half of a story right now. And I would have just waited until 2024 to get the whole season, honestly.

But in that case, it's still really, really good. And I can't wait for the rest of the show. All right. So we're not going to do Blue Eye Samurai. We're not going to do Godzilla minus one. Those are very recent. Very quick round. All right.

This is called Boys to Midnight Men. Killers of the Flower Moon Midnight meter Let's go Then Be for real Be for real Be for real

Be for real, be for real, dude It's an eight It's an eight It can't be any worse than an eight The movie is really well made The movie is really well acted As long as shit But let me tell you guys

Something about killers of the flower moon right now It's an eight The Irishman is fucking lower than that But you're saying Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 is better. It's a better movie. It's a better movie. The Galaxy, Volume 3 is no doubt better than the Killers of the Fire.

This is crazy. Not like, no doubt, bro. There's no doubt about it. That Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is better than because of... Here's a problem with Killers of Flower Moon. Okay, so, so look, the movies is 8. Long as shit. Sad as hell. Sad as hell.

The movie's a 8. The problem is, the movie is being... glamored into being a 10. We talk about fanboy shit all the time, and I told Sean this when I saw him. They're fanboys on the other side of this. They're fanboys over there that are telling me that a movie that is a solid, well-acted,

well-produced movie is somehow, even on the Scorsese spectrum, this amazing artistic and cinematic achievement. Replace everything that you're saying with this with Oppenheimer, and this is my argument. There you go. Cool. Fine. I loved Oppenheimer much more than kills of the flower moon. It's not that the movie is some kind of terrible film. It's just not that good. It's not that good. And that's okay. It's an eight. If we were doing point fives, maybe an eight point five. But y'all motherfuckers sold me on an 11. It was something I had to see. It was longer than a flight

from here to New Orleans and I sat down and I watched the movie and I'm like I whatever is it better than it to the party? No no come on no hell no no no all right cool I'm gonna give this a nine

I don't agree with everything Van is saying but I do think to your point you know movie Twitter them film, them letter brocks bros, like y'all gotta be serious, like y'all gotta, the theater where I saw this, this is in New York,

people love fucking Scorsese, this is his hometown. Muffolkins was stretching out of their seat. They were yawning. It would, like, you could hear, this was a difficult film. I think what I loved about this film, I absolutely loved.

And there was just parts of it that I just didn't think worked. And I think this also, if I'm going to be real, it just probably has to do with me being like a black person. There's a level of violence committed on screen that I was like, I get what you're trying to do when you're trying to show that this very real experience happened and how gruesome it is.

But there is a certain level where I don't need to see, even if it is true, I don't need to see women's heads falling off the back of their skulls to prove a point. I just, it just is not what I just, I'm giving this a nine. very well done. Just not as good as everyone's. Nah, it's an eight. I was in there and I'm checking my watch, bro.

Like, we got, we still got an hour left. I was still got 45 minutes. Jesse Plemons ain't shown up until the last 15 minutes, bro. What the fuck? Sorry, this is an N.A. for me. I haven't seen this movie yet. Jesse Plymonds doesn't show up until the last 15 minutes. Oh, he shows up for the last 30 minutes.

And it's like, yeah. And he saw the shit. Spoiler alert for history. but he saw the crime in like two minutes there was like man who's who's doing all these killings what's going on? I do love that he solves it in five minutes though that's funny it's him

it's I got he I solved it like I mean again like good movie well acted you know like just super depressing and we're there for like three hours and 30 minutes dog dog no man what about the killer then Charles is okay let me tell you guys what the

killer is a fucking seven. Like Charles, like, like Charles, let me tell you what Charles is doing right now. Charles is, Charles knows how I feel about these movies. And Charles is, is putting this out here

so that he can drive a wedge between me and the film bro crew. No, this is content. Here's the thing, because every single time I see you, this is all you want to talk about. We got to put it on Mike. The killer is okay, bro. It's a movie about,

by the guy having an inner monologue with himself that misses and then at the end of the movie you're like, what the fuck, bro? The killer is, it's a diet fight club that Fincher and the rest of these people just wanted to travel around on Netflix's dime.

Like, whatever, I'm telling you, it's just like, there's not a lot there. There's not a lot there. And also, let me tell you got something about this. But I've watched thousands of movies as we all have, right? I know when the story gets me. There have been stories that are so far away from my experience that have gotten me.

Things that don't have anything to do with my life that have gotten me. There have been stories that you would have thought that would have never been into. The killer just as a movie, I don't give a fuck about it. Now, can it be much worse than a seven? No, because it's too well acted and too well directed. It's fucking Fincher and Fastbender and goddamn Tilda Swinton and all of that shit. I get it. It's cool.

It's a cool little, it's nothing, bro. They could have saved some money and made that. that shit with Justin Timberlain and James W. I'm saying, oh, come on, bro. So you're giving this a seven? It's a seven.

I think I'm going to have to give this movie a seven. It was cool. Like, it was cool. Like, I enjoyed it. It's Fast Bender. You know what I'm saying? I was like, this is tight. I like the first 30 minutes.

But you didn't bring this up. Everybody was just like, yo, the monologue, the monologue. I really didn't like the monologue. That shit was taking me out of the full film. When he started, like, talking. He's just like, this is how I'm the perfect assassin.

I was like, all right. Spot on Fastbender impression. I don't know. This movie didn't do it for me. And I know everybody, especially Van is always like, Charles likes all the prestige shit. He only wants to watch the bear and this and that. But I don't know.

The killer just didn't do it. Steve, Jomey? No, I didn't tap into the killer. I was too busy watching Saltburn. Hell yeah. To watch the killer. Yeah. Oh, mid-I-mead for Saltburn?

A six. Stinks. Jeez. Louis stinks. Hey, it was great. Did y'all see last one? Did you all see May December? No.

I did it. No. Not yet. Not yet. I got to lock in. Oh, May December might have to be a nine or a ten for you. Really? All right. May December is fucking crazy.

Let's do this. Let's come back. Let's do. Okay, wait. If we do this, we got to come back for the Oscar run because we got to do poor things. I need to hear what everybody thinks about poor things. I need to know what y'all think about saltburn. Dog, should we do a whole, like, when the Oscars come,

just a Midnight Men, Midnight Meeter Oscars season? Midnight Men. We should do, this is what we're going to do. We're going to do a couple of Midnight Men. Midnight Men episodes. Midnight Men episodes. Well, we talk about content that's a little bit more elevated. We're fine.

Maybe we'll put different music in there. Yeah, yeah, all come in and tuck. We'll all get together. Yeah, like we'll dress up. That's what we should do. Yeah, we come in there. We do a little midnight. Night Men, the Distinguished Midnight Men.

And we'll do a couple episodes about these types of movies because I got some bone to picks with the dick riding that goes on. You guys are mad because we like Spider-Man No Way Home a little bit. We kind of like it. You guys are mad because of that. But it's a lot of dick-riding that goes on. I want to discuss it. Wait, you're saying there's Dickriding for May December because that movie was in.

May December is good May December Say less I will be there May December is that work I'm not going to push you All right Shout out to the nigga from Riverdale You came up doc

We have to do it We have to do it All right We're going to do midnight men at some point But annual Van's Midnight Boy Annual Matrix Resurrection's Assessment

In honor of Van's largest Mulligan to date We allow him to mulligan The Matrix Resurrection Every year Your current score is an eight then. We sticking with an eight,

we moving it up, we moving it down. Okay. We can't do points, right? It has to be hold numbers. Actually, I think just for this. It's got to be whole numbers. No, I think we should be able to do point, like 8.5, 7.5 just for this.

No. Soft disagree here. It's a, okay. You guys have your own podcast. So here's a deal. 8.3. It goes up. I watch you on.

You're just doing the bit now. You're just doing the bit. This is. You're telling me that this is almost a nine. So I want to, I want to tell you, I want, just real quick,

you guys. I'll be honest with you. And you guys are not going to believe this. Yo, I watch this movie all the time. I believe you when you say, you watch this movie all the time. I watch this movie all the time.

If I look, at my shit. Like, I fall asleep to the movie sometimes when I need to go to sleep at night. I watched it on the plane coming back from the Bahamas. Like, I watched this movie all the time. I like this movie. There are parts that I fast forward.

You know what I mean? But there are weird choices. But the Matrix Resurrections as a lore fan of the Matrix, as a lore head of the Matrix. This movie got me into being a Matrix lorehead. It's just one of those

special movies to me. It got you into being a major slurhead because you had to read the books to cope with the fact that the movie sucked ass. Right. No, it's not true. That's exactly that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened. You called Steve and was like, Steve, I hate this movie. Why don't I hate this movie? And Steve put you on these books and these YouTube videos. That's not what happened at all. That's exactly what happened. That's not what happened at all. I wanted to understand the six cycles

of Zion and all of that stuff so I could understand the movie, which I will say this. You should not have to have to understand all of that stuff to really enjoy a movie. He said the six cycles of Zion, right? Shut up. So what I'm saying is once you do, once you do understand that, the movie's just a lot better. The same guy who no more than maybe like 30 minutes ago was like, ah, I felt came out of interstellar looking crazy.

Do I need to read a book? You should have to read a book to understand what's going on in the movie. No, that's not what I. Hold on. Okay, so let's make sure that we... What are the six cycles? I don't care, Charles. I literally don't care.

So let's make sure that we keep it consistent. What I said was I didn't understand, and I never said I didn't like Innecelaer. I said I didn't understand Inesteller, so I read a book, right? After I read the book, I liked Interstellar more. I always liked Intercellar when I saw it, but I'm not going to say that the movie wasn't hard to understand.

I still think Inception is difficult to understand. I don't understand, give me a kick when I'm at the bottom and then we shoot up to the top, three levels. Really? I, bro, I'm a good talker. I'm not as smart as you guys. I love it. I love in this.

We're slowly turning on Nolan like me. Great. I'm not told me to turn on Nolan. Well, yeah, relax. I love, like, I love inception. I love the movie. I like the movies more after I was educated about him. I enjoyed the Matrix because I understand what was happening.

Now, Charles, if you want me to explain to you, this is how explain it real quick. We're about to go to church. Not a black church. Shut up, Tommy. I'm already in trouble. This I'll explain to you. Okay, so this is what happens.

Hi, producer Steve here. At the request of every single midnight boy, including Van Lathen, we have decided to put Van Lathen's four-minute Matrix rant at the end of this podcast to save you time and effort. Should you want to listen to the whole thing,

you can find it there. We will now resume the remainder of this podcast. I had to watch Matrix Explained several videos to understand that. I don't know. Right now, Matrix has directions.

I might have to give it a bump. It might be a 10 now. Back to that explanation. Show me so pissed. Well, look. Absolutely furious. I'm so happy.

I'm so happy. Furious. I just spent like, man, Asian shit was cool. And y'all bully me. this motherfucker get to sit here and speak about a god-dam way better than anything that's ever happened on Agen's Shield, Joe,

philosophical shit about this sorry-ass movie. You got to cope that the shit was ass. It was ass. Just take it as it was bad. Jomey, think about the power. They put Neo and Trinidad together. They put them too close together, and their power sparked it.

They resurrect the whole thing. You know what I'm saying? The anomaly, they put all the bad code into the anomaly, and then he can. reform the matrix and then they need him to reset the matrix every time but he chose not to do it because of love. Awful.

Machines can't account for love. See what I'm saying? You can't account for love. You can't account for love. You can't account for love. It's a human spirit. It's trying for the human spirit. Okay, that's enough. Fuck it. How about that? This is the greatest midnight Mulligans that we've ever done.

I can't wait till next year when Van says the exact same thing. Honestly, we need to all go to Van's house. We rewatching the Matrix Resurrection. I'm not going to be there. I won't be there. I will not be there. I will not be there.

Jeremy. See what I'm saying? See what I'm saying, Jomey? That's like, that's like, anti-fun. Jomey, why are you driving a wedge? Why are you driving a wedge? Let's all come to my house. We're going to watch, we're going to watch season four ages show.

Let's go. I'll do it. Let's do it. I'll do it. Let's go. Before we watch Matrix Reserctions, I need to watch. episode of Matrix Explained and then we get into the movie. Oh, I'll send you some videos.

That's crazy. Like, bro, we got crazy. Bro, bro. Bro, let's see what's on. Just real quick before we go. I just want to see what the latest video of Matrix Explained. It's still going on a YouTube channel. We should have, honestly, we're not going to have any content next year.

Let's just have a fucking Matrix month. Midnight Matrix. No way. I'm telling you, I would like to bring the dude from Matrix Explained a like, Like on here, okay, because like he, you got 164,000 subscribers. I am one of them. You're proud. What is the most recent video?

Read the title. He is not Neo. It was all a lie. Matrix is explained, and it's talking about Neo for Matrix Resurrections. It's full of theories. Look, one is called Agent Smith was right. Like, you know what I'm saying? The architect was the good guy.

Matrix explained, y'all are not topped in. What happened to the game I love, man? Like, okay, the latest one, the Matrix lost media, Morpheus is missing past, Matrix explained. The origins of Agent Smith 3.0, the Matrix Resolution. I am the mother and the birth of the artificial human

outside the Matrix. These are great, this is great stuff. Show me, tap in, tap in, there's about to be a Matrix spot. Look, an Oracle Matrix Christmas. They made an AI song. Look, they made an AI song. But y'all don't.

They made the AI song. They made an AI song for the Neo's. He has 1.3, this last one. He has 1.3 million views on the Matrix's Four Greatest Lies. The Oracle's truly evil secrets. I'm telling you, bro. Y'all got to tap in with The Matrix Explain, bro. Shout out to whoever.

Shout out to Matrix Explain, nigger. Whoever he is. I know he's not black. But shout out to him. Like, it's like, Shout out to here. We got to go. That's a wrap.

Follows on socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomi's job. This week, Mal and Joe give you their deep dive into the Doctor Who

Christmas special. I want to say something real quick for a lot of people who still haven't gotten this. The House of R has its own feet.

So the people that are asking Mal and Joe where their podcast is, it's on their feet. So go check out their pod

and it's something they're doing with Dr. Who. House of R. Whatever you get podcast. Type it. Whenever you get podcasts, go support them on their feed.

Boom. On Friday, button mash returns to talk about the best games of 2023. I should be on that podcast. I should be on that podcast just to get a corner to talk about Spider-Man 2. I just got to the point in Spider-Man 2 where I got the red and white Spider-Man Venom, anti-Venum suit. Ooh. Good suit.

The white and black one? There's a, that's all. I promise you, there is going to be a suit that will piss you off. I don't know if he's that off. I don't know if they'll hate it. Wait, can we be real suit? Really, really quick. We should have had a whole Spider-Man 2.

Toot. But, yo, playing this game, I got to be real. Peter is so whack compared to Miles. Brown's his powers are so much better. It's not a close. Miles are so much cooler than Pete. It's not even funny. That motherfucker is like a Zeus.

He has, like, his electrical powers are so. But they won't even let you do anything with Miles, though. What are you talking about? Well, every time I try to do stuff, I'm doing stuff, it's like they switch to Peter. Yeah, it is true. The whole story is like Peter's story. Well, yeah. I mean, he's like the main character, but at the same time, when I'm

like, not even when I beat the game, when I'm just doing all the other stuff, I do it as Miles. Because I know it's going to take five seconds. I'm using my rating powers. They all up out of there. Like all the side stuff, if you want to 100% of the game, go as Miles. If you want to like be lazy or not be lazy, but just take your time

and get beat up a whole bunch of times. Play as Pete. You know what I mean? But Miles is great. Our producer is Steve, the architect. Alman and Jomi, the Explaner, Adelon, is on socials. Hashtag Jematrix. It's not funny. The Jome Ketek.

The Jome Kethekot. Oh my God. The Jome Kethekitt. Oh, hashtag the Jome Kethe. Jome is a Matrix head. Jomi, get on that Matrix explain, bro. Next time you'll come over to the crib.

We're on that Matrix Displaine. Shout out real quick. Shout out to the Midnight Meter Twitter account for making this all possible. shout out makes our life so much shout out to the midnight meter on Twitter. Additional production from Arjuna Ramka Pappell. Charles, take us out.

Steve loves himself some black women. Midnight Mulligans is over and the boys were a lie. But always remember, there are six cycles of Zion. Okay, so you know that the Matrix originally was made as

a goddamn as a paradise as a utopia. That didn't work. It didn't work as the Matrix being the Paradise and Utopia because the programs inside of the Matrix realized that it wasn't real. Okay, cool. They remade the Matrix.

When they remade the Matrix, they put the Oracle inside of the Matrix. The Oracle is the thing inside the matrix that really deals with humanity and makes human beings not be able to tell what the matrix is. The Oracle really works for the machines. Here's the thing.

Every time you take somebody out of the matrix, it causes a glitch in the programming math of the matrix itself. All of that together has to be purged. It has to be purged, so in order to purge it, the matrix creates the one. it creates the anomaly. And then what the anomaly has to do after is then go out and talk to the architect and do all of that stuff, right?

And reset the matrix. Every time the anomaly is the combination of all of the people in the matrix that have been saved that have messed up the equation of the matrix. And then he has to escape the matrix and you present him with the choice of do you want to save the. matrix or do you want to do this other thing and he will always choose to do the other thing and then that will destroy Zion and destroy and he'll always choose to destroy the matrix rather than to destroy Zion. And so every time he makes that choice, the matrix is destroyed and it starts over and it starts over again because if you destroy Zion, destroy the human race.

Neo changed things because Neo fell in love. And when Neo fell in love, he chose Trinity. over, essentially chose the Matrix over the other choice. And that changed the entire deal. Now, when the Matrix Resurations comes along, what they didn't understand was that, like, there is specific math.

I'm explaining this inartfully, but this is where it goes, a specific connection between Neo and Trinity that when you put them together, the power that they create is like so central because of their connection in the computer world and all of that stuff,

that it can change the whole scope of what's powerful in the matrix. So it's not that Neo's the one, is not that Trinity is the one, is that they are the pair. To understand that, though, and they do, it's very complicated. To understand that, you have to know why the Matrix exists,

why there were six Nios before, why Nio's choice at the end is different. You have to know why there's an anomaly in the first place. And the movie got so convoluted that it did a, poor job of letting people that watch the movie know, like, how many times he's come there, why he has to choose between the Matrix and humanity and all of that stuff. I had to watch Matrix Explained several videos to understand that.

I don't know. Right now, Matrix has directions. I might have to give it a bump. It might be a 10 now. Back to that explanation. Show me so pissed. Absolutely. I'm so happy.

Absolutely. I'm so happy. Furious.