The Ringer-Verse - The Black TV Draft | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

The Boys are back and drafting the best Black TV shows of all time! From 'A Different World' to 'In Living Color' to 'Scandal,' they build their teams across five categories: sitcom, pre-'90s classic, UPN, Shondaland, and wild card. Who will come out on top? (00:00) Intro(14:48) The Black TV Draft(1:50:00) Outro Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve AhlmanProducers: Jamie Yukich, Aleya Zenieris and Devon BaroldiAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome into the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus' Feet for All Things fandom. We are, Steve, the architect, Alma, the builder, and tigger of things. Jomi, the explainer at dinner on. You've got questions and he's got answers. Oman Van, here, the receding, resurgent, hairline,

Coke, baby Chuck, 24-care closing. Together we are known as, I'm the midnight, boys. We'll be right back after this. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business, fast, reliable. internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Shout out everybody that was locked in during a night of the seven kingdoms.

The socials went crazy during that time. So if you were liking, following, commenting the whole thing. And I want to say two specific shoutouts. Shout out Cisco. He loved the video we did on the car game. Hey, can we get Cisco on the show? We can get Cisco. Come on the show.

Let's get Cisco the Dragon on the show to do a special interview on House of the Dragon. This is what we do. What we do is we get Cisco on the show. Right. And then... The dragon draft? Write that down. Write that down.

Write that down. Write that down. We're going to do a dragon draft. Cisco. To celebrate House of the Dragon, and we are hoping to get Cisco the Dragon. What are the categories? Who is eligible to be drafted?

Oh, man. Are we doing like... D. D. Degen's versus dragons. Medieval dragon. TV, movie dragons. Dragon from House Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones. Shrek dragons. Shrek dragon.

He would be medieval, right? Yeah, it's a medieval dragon. That's a medieval dragon. The dragon from Shrek that married donkey. That would be a medieval. Toothless. That's medieval. Right.

Smog is up in there. What's it called? Is Pete and the dragon? Pete and the dragon from here. Yeah. Puff the magic dragon? Dragon tails? Y'all not like that.

No dragon tails. Drag on. Is Drag-on one? Drag-on could be on there? Drag-on. With Swiss beats. Me and my nigga, shout out to Drag-on. You know what, man?

You know what's funny? What's funny? Shout out to Drag-on for real. It was cool. Drag-on is a fantastic rapper. I love Drag-on, right? Shout out to niggas who could really rap. Name three Drag-on songs.

Don't matter. I can, though. What's that? What's that? Okay, so, Then he's going to ride with me That joy he came out with And then he had drag on

Down bottom, drag on juvenile And then he was featured on several other records Okay Yeah So was he Was he Swiss beats Magoo? No, because I would say Wait first, I don't want to diss, nigga

Wait, oh I'm not dissing Magoo It is a dissing No time! And Magoo pass away First of all, you always know That there is a rapper That a producer has to be like, hey yo, as long as I'm alive, you're a millionaire.

Like, let's get you on some tracks. But I don't think this is Dragon, though, because I think that I always, Dragon had, and this, not that Magoo didn't have, Dragoon has a real record. Dragon is a real record. Magoo has records. Magoo has records, too.

Why? But I'm saying, I don't feel like we should do that. I feel like this is, this one can't my name of all, but you know. And real quick, you know who was locked in the whole time, liking, commenting, and sharing the whole thing. Who?

Lazz Alonza. Shout out, last. Last is. Last was fucking one. Ladd was in the comments. In the comments, in the stories, on all of the stuff. He was locked in from the jump. Shout out Laz, you the man.

Shout out, drag on, bro. Shout out all the rappers that was rapping their asses off back in the day. These niggas don't be rapping no more. All right. No, we got a Jay Cole record. Hey, Jay Cole be rapping. No, he don't. Yes, he do.

That niggins say he's the hardest with a white mother. Nah. Light reflects when the half black Messiah wraps. He got the logic bars? Wait, real quick, and then we'll move on. I'll say this, we have to move on. But he, Jay Cole, would be wrapping his ass off, though. No?

You don't like it. My question is, and be honest, this for the table. Charles is something else. Would you be like, Charles? I could come up and be like, Jesus Christ, fantastic God, die for the sin. He's like, yeah, what's he done for me lately? Did he know? Because people still sin, right?

That was 2,000 years ago. What does Jesus do? Washed. Name me a classic J-Cole record. Huh? Name me a classic J-Cole record besides 2014. Come on.

Can we not? You got one. Every rapper needs a friend in the studio who's just like, we're just going to delete this Pro Tools real quick. We just going to delete this real quick. Come on, man. You need somebody to say no?

This is my guy. Come on, man. He's great. This is my favorite guy. Five minutes in. Like, and subscribe, share. You can watch every midnight boy in every House of our episode, YouTube.

com. Backslash at Ring ofverse and also on Spotify. On Wednesday, the House of R is doing their House of the Dragon teaser dive. So they're diving into the House of the Dragon. I don't know if you're a teaser. You can't do a deep dive on a teaser, but you can do a teaser dive. You can get as deep in the teaser as you can possibly. They absolutely can.

How's Mark and do it? Brother, I mean, what? The Spider-Man trailer, No Way Home came out. They did, what? Three hours on two minutes. Two minutes? It's possible. Did you see our sisters in their new studio over at Sycamore?

By the way, it's not Sycamore with a Y, Sycamore with a I. S-I-C-C-More, baby. I can't wait for you y'all come over there. Have y'all been? Have you not been? No. Me and Jomey were there. me and gentlemen.

How are you in there? We already did it. You're looking real nice in there. It looks crazy. It looks good. Is Chris a genius? It looks good. The lighting.

Shout out to Chris. Chris did, what's his name? What's Chris's, huh? Wollers. Woolers. Woolers or Wollers? How do you spell it? Wait a minute.

He got the same last name as Mark Wollers, the closer for the braids in the 90s? Sure. No compliment. I changed my shirt. Wait, do they got the lighting for the black people now? Do we look? Do we get some more?

Oh, it's Amber reviews, baby. Brother. Yeah. We look. Beautiful. Hell yeah. Chris, Chris might,

Chris, like, if Autumn directs sinners too, if Mike, if Ryan just goes, hey, autumn, you got sinners too.

If Autumn direct centers too, Chris might have to light it for the brothers and sisters. Chris got to be crazy. Shout out to everybody and how hard they worked to get the studio going. It was really,

Hannah, Jack, everybody over there. What's the, my man who does the design? What's his name? Jonathan Radd. Jonathan Radler.

Shout out to everybody that worked really, really, really hard to make the studios happen. The studios are beautiful. And they worked their asses off for so long. And all I'm going to say is... Are my forgetting anyone? Kevin.

Oh, Kevin. Kevin! How could I fucking forget Kevin? Kevin. Mr. Nice beard. How could I think a nice beard? An incredible beard. He's got an incredible.

Kevin got a crazy beard. Kevin got a crazy beard. Kevin got a dark beard. At one time I thought maybe Kevin was hitting the Beijing with the beard. Kevin beard is nice. Yeah. It's angry. I just need all the fans when the Midnight Boys are in Sycamore

to be just as loud in the comments as you was all year about this fucking gossip. He's just as fucking loud. I need the apology to me as a lot of the disrespect. Just comment, like, subscribe. Yeah. Keep the same energy. Don't lose the intensity.

When you see us when we look like lovely and like don't lose it. Like fucking East Ray shot us on insecurity. Keep the same fucking energy. All right. All right. On Friday, Buttmatch return. with Resident Evil Requiem reactions. Yeah.

They're reacting. New Resident Evil. But it's like a, it's Requiem. So it's like a, it's like a, why is it that? It's just the name of the game. It's the ninth one. Whenever they put Requiem on a title, it's like super serious. Like, is this the end of the shit?

That's what I'm saying. Why did they, why is it Requiem? I don't know. I wasn't known when the game originally came out. Ooh, the Matrix Requiem. That's going to be my Matrix. Did you guys read my Eric Kilmongerpiece? No, yeah, no.

Fuck you guys. You know, like, you know, I'm right. I'm writing up a storm on the substack. You know, I can only get the way to get the substack, because I have consistent views on the subset of consistent reads, but the way to get it really crazy is to poke the film bros, but I want to do that every week, right? Right.

If I write about Marty Supreme, one ballot after another, they go crazy. You can't provoke a lot letterbox. Fuck, man. Call you a troll. Whoa, you didn't give a substack breakdown of the Tourette's. Call it. That's this week.

Coming soon? It's called... It's an offer. It's called... Yeah, it's called niggers in London. That's the name of the subject. Niggins. Literally, the title of the piece is

niggers in London and everywhere else. That's the name of it. Everywhere else. That's the name of the piece this week. You know what? That was so predictable. You know I was going to write about that. They called the niggers on the stage.

You guys, can you think about the world we live in? Shout out to... Man, shout out. I know I'm wrong. First of all, I know I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. You're not supposed to do it.

Wait, what's the take? The take is what are we? I didn't know how we're supposed to do. What's the plan? I get it. Yeah, what's the, if the, I said on the higher line, if the plan is we get called niggers and we go, oh, we get it.

That's not going to work, bro. And I'm sorry. I apologize. Y'all don't want my real take. I do. Y'all don't want my real take. Well, if your real take is your real take, Charles, let me tell you something real quick.

Before we get into the show. Before we get into the show. you, something's happening with you. This happened to me. It's going to happen to Joe me. It's going to happen to Steve, too. It might have already happened to Steve.

Well, let's hear it. You're breaking. You don't like the structure. You don't like it. You don't like the structures you see. You don't like the thing. You don't like the reality you see. Charles is breaking it.

Charles doesn't, Charles isn't accepted. You guys haven't seen Charles. Charles walks around. He's around the office. He kind of mopes. Floating. Until it's time to perform and then he turns on.

Charles doesn't like what he's seen. Right. Break it. Break it some more. Break the system, Charles. I'm saying is you already know they don't want niggas at the Bafters already. Off show. Historically speaking.

This is what I like. Historically speaking, that's all I'm going to say. And I'll just say like, I understand the delicacies of all these conversations, but I do think that it's a little weird than when it's our moment, we got to show grace. We got to show humility. We got to be humble about it. How come when it's our moment, we always got to be like, turn the fucking cheek.

It's just, there's a history of it, and I don't like it. They cut some other stuff from that show. They left that in there. Why is our embarrassment? Why is our pain always turned into content? I'm just, I'm not trying to get too spicy, but. Boy, the Baptist, man. I got to say one more thing, man.

Shout out to Mike and Dilroy, right? For real. Shout out to Mike and Dilroy. because there's a different version of that that we just, you know, shout out to Mike and Dero man. It's a Chris Rock moment

in reverse. They like, hey up. Yeah, like, oh, my God. Oh, it's up? All right, man. Yeah, we're now, you know, we're not as well as you guys thought, but we don't, we're not going to get called.

No, fuck all that. This is what I'm saying. I get it, man. I'm not getting called a nigger on the stage. I'm sorry, guys. What a fuck it. Don't put my man front row where I could like... It's not going to fuck all that, man.

I'm not getting called a nigga on the stage. I don't give a fuck what it mean, bro. Fuck all that, though. Sure. What am I doing? Why did I even do that? That's because of Jome. Like, it is...

What is it is? Because Jomey, you know what? We know who we're missing in this conversation? We're missing Alea. Because if Alaya were here, she would get us right as far as what we're supposed to think. I mean, you could do... I get, I've seen the takes. I'm a little.

It's really for me, the BAFTA's got to know better. They have to know better. It's a cataclysmic failure on every single level. They have to know better. What are we doing? Yeah. And then, like, again, to put Mike and Dooy in that position, right?

In the moment, like, it's got to be bad. Then like, all right, we're going to put that to the world. Everybody can see. Like, that's just... Make your clips. Make your dumbass content. There's nothing in between the ears there. Yeah.

All right. What about that? Look at. Midnight boy. Steve's an ally. Steve's the number one ally. We're going to do an ally's draft. We are not doing a allies draft.

We are not doing a cookout draft. Are we taking like next one we should do an ally not cook, not not not not doing a cookout draft? Are we doing like UK France or like what's the? We can't do a cook. We can do a ally's draft. Steve is on there. Steve is top 10 ally ever.

Oh, thank you. Steve, yeah, you up there. Top 10 all time. All time? All time. I mean, it's not, the list is not that deep to me. These motherfuckers suck. Okay.

Like think about it. You got top three allies in history. John Brown Right, number one Number one, number one, Undisputed Yeah, John Brown Was it, Jane Campion?

You know the lady? Tim Wise. Then after that Tim Wise is cool. Then after that it starts to Not Jane Campion. What's the lady's name? They just did a documentary

A Kill White. I know. The lady, the anti-racist, Jane Campion is like a director. The anti-racist white lady I haven't read any of her. She's up there too

She's not better to steal Come on man, come on That's she's a filmmaker There's another lady Her and Killer Mike just did She's a prominent white Anti-racist I don't get into that type of shit

So I don't pay attention to them that much But anyway When we find her name I'll shout her out Like somewhere in the middle of the podcast I'll just shout her name uncontrollably And I'll try not to shout it

All right All right, that's too far That's no Come on No. Come on today's show, the Midnight Boys are celebrating Black History Month because we celebrate. We're up to a great start. Okay.

With a black TV draft, this is, Charles, explain what we're doing. All right, you know, we've done a Black movies draft. We've also done a White People movies draft, but I was thinking we should get it to TV. Wait, can we talk about a project you're working on that's steeped in this? I feel like it's almost unfair because you've been, you're almost over-prepared for this. Yes, I've been making the history of black television here for The Ringer. We've been doing this podcast since about 2017.

It's our Chinese democracy. We are, it is. We are in the home stretches of it, but the first season that we're talking about is the dads of television. But it's a look back. It's a narrative podcast hosted by me. It's a look back at black television

in the history of black TV. Really, really quick, before we get into the categories in all of this, What would you say the eras of black TV are? It's a very interesting question. I think you have the formative era, which is legitimately the formation of black TV and the archetype of the image of a black person on television.

That was very fraught. Good times. Early on. That's what I'm talking way before good times. I'm talking about like when America was legitimately trying to figure out how they contended with an image of a black person on television. And we're talking about people who had to go through all concert stuff.

We're talking about portrayals that were both groundbreaking and revolutionary, but then also sometimes very stereotypical. Or even somebody like Nat King Cole, who a black man on television, people looking at him and saying he's coming into our homes every single night is something that's actually kind of revolutionary. Not only that, though, when sports comes out, When TV blows up, and sports are on television, even having the athletes on television, that's a huge part of black TV. Then you get into the 60s that are kind of understanding what a black television character is.

Then you get to the 70s. And the late 60s into the 70s to me is when the palette of what black people on TV becomes very dynamic. And it becomes, you know, diverse. You have all of the shows that are getting made that kind of address different aspects of what is black American existence. And America's like choosing which black family, which part of it that they connect with the most. Yeah. That's when you get, we moving on up, but then you also get good times. Then you also have Sanford and Son that comes around at same time.

And then spread out, you have other explorations of black television. You have like what's happening. You have like all kinds of different stuff. And you have literally enough shows for there to be at least an understanding of the diversity of the intra-Black American community diaspora. Then with the 80s, you have some revolutions, you have some minds that come along and expand. Fuck it. You have fucking Bill Cosby. Who like, like, you know, guys, there's no way to have a conversation about the history of black television.

and I have a conversation about Bill Cosby, who really just rips the lid off what people thought that they could expect from a black family on TV. And then you have basically the 90s, Wayne Brothers come out. It's almost like, that's probably the peak and the boom of it,

where you got the Martins, you get live in color, you get all of these things that it's like, it's not just black people are on TV. It's the superstar era. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I think everything at... We are TV in a way, not like...

We have channels devoted to us. Like, it's, they start to see that. And then our buy, black people, we have buying power. Like something similar is happening in hip hop where it's like capitalism. People are just like, no, no, no, not only do people want this content, almost they're underserved. Hip hop is a very important invention to me in the rise of black television because people saw, uh, black music has always been at the forefront of American music. But people saw just how.

ravenous American audiences were for hip hop for this music that is unforgiving, unfiltered, and documentary autobiographical. And it's taken on a life of its own and they're like, how do we get that type of energy on television? They never quite did that, but it infected parts of TV and you could tell that they were trying to appeal to an audience that

was going out buying this music. it can go in the stores and all that stuff like that. So to say all this, there's a rich, rich history of black people on television, but it could be better. It could be better. Yeah. I think we are probably in the doldrums now in terms of like,

and this is less to do with like black creators now, and it more so has to do with the system. Right. Whereas like I think the bottom probably fell out around like the early 2010s. Mm-hmm. Where it's like I remember like the last problem. gasp of it, like we're going to talk about,

is probably that era of, like, girlfriends, Wayans brothers, that type of, like, that was the last, I remember of that, there being that many black sitcoms at once. They sure you peeing down,

that was the end of it. Yeah, it was over. Looking back at this draft, you're like, wow, this was, there was really an era of,

like, 80s to late 90s where we're like, I'll say even 2000. Even 2000. 2000 was the last. 2000, once it,

once it came to CW, it was over. It was a rap. It was over. And, I mean, you know, you got to give shout out to Kenya, Blackish, Tracy, Anthony, all of those shows.

Insecure. Sean a rhyme. Sean to Rhymes. We're going to talk about all of these shows. But, like, having a movie, having a movie where someone sits down and invest into an experience that might be sitting on black people

is one thing, right? A movie, I was just watching Quentin Tarantino talk about this, right? He was getting all mad about movies. in the fact that like when you sit down, you own that audience for two hours, right? Which is true. He's very upset about that when

it wasn't like Once Upon Time in Hollywood. Didn't he co-pro that with Netflix? Am I wrong? No, he did. No, I think he had a partnership with like the hateful eight after where he did like the next Netflix version of the movie. Okay, I was looking for reasons to hate on him that didn't exist. Okay. Okay. So,

So what he's saying is true. And that also makes it distinct from television. Movies are about going in and surrendering to an artistic experience for that amount of time, right? That's why you're careful in the runtime. Television is a relationship. Television is you check on your friends every single week. That is always an interesting position

to put America in as far as TV is concerned with black people. Because when America checks on black people, it's not just to check in with your friends. It's usually to check in with your friends for this, like, specific reason, right? How can I say this? Every TV show is about entertainment. It's about drama or laughs or anything. I think the specific hurdle with black TV is sometimes asking American audiences whether

it's appropriate for them, not even appropriate, whether it's meaningful. or worthy of them to check in with black people all the time. Yep, right. To be black every week. To be in a situation or in a dramatic or even comedy situation with black people all the time. And like when you're trying to make those shows and get these shows greenly and put them on the air, you're always figuring out a way to legitimately trick America to being interested in black people every single day, every single week, every single month, whatever it is. And are you just interested in the plight of the black family,

the interesting oddball happenings of the black family? Are you just interested in black kids in college? Are you just interested? Do you even care that much? Other premises that seem to make sense. A workplace comedy. What if that workplace comedy is all black people? Does it even resonate in the same way?

Like, is that do we have that type of cultural tether to one another? Yeah. So when a show does really hit, and when a show is really meaningful, you normally see performers who can catch lightning in the bottle. Like the average, like think about how many shows,

and we can get to the draft after this, think about how many shows that are just cool that ran for a long time for white people. Just cool. Yeah. They're just cool. You just watch them.

They're just cool. Like, yeah, you know, it's called, the king of queens. That's just, it's cool. It's like, if you catch yourself watching that, you're not going to be like, why did I do this? Right.

But you're also not going to be like, oh my God, I can't wait to watch the hilarity that's true every single fucking week. It's cool. But like, you can't just be cool in making it black TV.

I'm not going to draft this, but in perfect example, there was a moment in time where it was like, you could see someone like Jamie Fox where it's like the Jamie Fox show. He's the actor on that. He was playing piano,

fucking singing in the fucking lobby. He's doing characters. There was a level of like when you were a black, entertainer in that role, you are overperforming. And it was hysterical. No, I love the Jamie Fox show, but it's like, I think there was an era of Black Tea, probably the era that I loved the most where it was like the Wayne's brother.

You're just like we were seeing two like brothers that are doing everything. Yeah. And you know what I liked about those shows? And we talk about UPN on the podcast as well and UPN hit or miss for people. But I did like, and UPN is a, there's a vast, I think we think that there was like five shows. It's a vast amount of show. But it's also, the brand was so strong. When I was research, I was like, oh, this was never.

There was not UPA. This was not actually a UPS. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what I enjoyed was shows like the Parker's that went, fuck it. Fuck you. We're just vibing. No, not we just vibing.

This is for us. If you don't like, like, like, I. Y'all said the fuck y'all want to say. Countess Vaughn, Monique, everybody was on that joint. This is our show. This is our thing. This is for us.

And if you're not fucking with it, you're not fucking with it. As a kid, that was one of the first TV shows where I was like, I had to do an internal dialogue with myself. I was like, oh, this isn't sanitized. You know what I'm saying? It's funny to us, nigga.

Like, we like it. And I'm saying that only, and so that was kind of a thing about UPN, UPN ended up establishing that there was a lane to make programming just for black people. Yeah. Like, and we keep over and over and over. It doesn't matter how many times we prove it. It doesn't matter how many times it's proven that you can make stuff for black people.

We still got to prove it every time. Honestly, every decade. Every decade you got to start over again. Every time. Like, I would, I wish that, like, like, sinners would have been, you had to be black to buy a ticket. We should have segregated it. Well, wait.

And then, yeah, no, should have segregated. We should not. Wait, isn't it the other way around? Like, if you're white, you need to buy a ticket? No. It should have been, centers should have been blacks only. And then if it would have made, because it wouldn't have made 347, it would have made like 310 because we pushed it to that. And then we could have been like, look, we did it.

Oh, okay. Actually, let me pitch you on something because you know. Black, let's do some black only moves. Now, like, you know, neon and 8. 24, they're doing all these market stunts, the long walk they have motherfuckers on the treadmill. I think what we should have actually done is black people

only, we buy the tickets, and then if they're standing room, white people got to get into a line and you have to ask if you're invited in, like the vampires. We should be able to choose with some movies. We should be able to be like, hey, Pew Pew Productions is? Pew Pew Productions is like, hey, like, black people come in and everybody else

we have a doorman out there. Right. That's me. Dorman Davis. Dorman Davis. You're the doorman. I'm the doorman. No, we can't let you choose. who gets in. Why?

Come on. We can't do that. Come on, man. We like, I'm choosing, I'm choosing. Yeah, we can't let you. Because you just want to let in.

It's going to be a bunch of, you know, biracial girls and all this. Yeah. All the list, all of them. We didn't plan to have that conversation. All right. So, guys,

back to the draft. Y'all know what it is. We're going in snake order fashion. The, um, Category, our classic, which is any black TV show made before the 90s. Sitcom, UPN, shout out Shonda Rhymes, gets our own category, and Wildcard. Can we see the order of the draft, please?

Okay, Charles, going first. I'll let your card again. Okay. Steve goes last, right? Steve goes last. Cool. Great. All right.

Chuck, first pick. You're wild and just do it. Wilden, what? Just do it. First, first pick. I think it's between like two. No. There's one that I'm like, I don't know who's going to draft it?

No, no, there's only one first choice. Just do it. They're going to kill me. Just do it. They're going to kill me. And if you don't do it, I'm going to do it. All right, can I say this? You have to draft it.

It's the first pick, bar none. Without a doubt, it must be drafted. I'm confused. Because I thought there was, I thought there was like, no, there's one. And then like a two. But like, I didn't think it was that. I was convinced you would make me drafted.

No. All right. I will say this. I think so many times in black history, we throwed a baby out with the bathwater. And I do think that this show is historic. It changed my life when my grandparents introduced it to me. I want to shout out Felicia Rashad,

Lisa Bonnet. Malcolm Jamal Warner. Yeah. You cannot describe what this show did for America, what the show did for black people. You got to do Cosby Show. It's Cosby Show. Okay. Just, okay.

Preamble, preamble, preamble, preamble. All right. They're going to kill me. Preamble, preamble, preamble, preamble. It's the clear number one. It's clear. If you were doing an overall TV show draft. It's there somewhere.

It's very near the top. I know. I know. Wait, you're acting like I'm the asshole for being like, guy. This is the first time going first in the draft. Fucks you. You have to draft the Cosby show. Is it, and this was something that we ran into,

attention that we ran into on moving on up, is the reality of the situation is that the Cosby show is a game changer in terms of a television show. It is a complete game changer. And for a black television show, The Cosby show might be, might be the single most important piece of black multimedia art that's ever existed. For a show like that to be as massively popular. I'm not talking about popular as a black show.

I'm talking popular as just TV shows in general. And hearing my grandparents and parents like talked, because I would just be watching it on like Nicker at night and just like. laughing. My parents are like, no, you don't actually like understand what it was like to sit down weekly and watch this show. They're like, we could see overnight white America. Their opinions changing like, oh, black people have these loving family units that are nuanced and they are complete huge. And just the amount of talent that came through that show. When you watch that show now, you're like almost every single episode you point to like a guest actor or this or that who had their moment on the show,

it changed my life. Seeing that show, I do think in terms of, like, comedic sensibilities, realizing that, like, I could write something like that, create something like that. Six, seven, eight years old was like... Six, seven, why? Joey did it.

So look, I'll say this. I'll say this. And we... They're going to kill me. We can move on off the house. You have to draft. It's the number of my show you can. You have to draft.

Now, like, listen to the pod and understanding makes 100% sense, get it. On the graphic eye, you're going to be tough. It's over. We might have to redact it. The Cosby Show is there.

Last thing I'll say about the Cosby Show is, you know, the Cosby Show is oriented around this once-in-a-generation American icon, which was Bill Cosby, who just was able to captivate American audiences for decades before the Cosby Show. this is why the personal failing of Bill Cosby is so profound. Yeah. What Bill Cosby represented was really like,

you know, he had in terms of, he had a sensibility insofar as he didn't want to be dirty and he would chide other people about that. There was certainly a part of Bill Cosby that was kind of steeped in his respectability that might have been, you know, a little corny to, more daring performers and all of that stuff that existed.

But it wasn't more insidious than that because I remember even before all of the allegations came out about Bill Cosby's history of exploiting women, using his power against them, abhorrent things. I remember walking in one time where my parents were watching Bill Cosby talk at a college and they were like shaking their heads and they're just like, yo, what's happened to this man? That's later. That is later. But this was pre, like, everything coming out,

where even they were having, like, an intergenerational conversation of, like, what does this performer who has done so much for us mean in the 2000s when it's like he hated hip hop? Right. That's later. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about, like, that is a conversation.

We already started to have a conversation with Bill Cosby, which is actually what inspired Hamble Burr's to even get up there and do what he did. Right. Was the fact that he was tired of being lectured by Bill Cosby. Yeah. What I'm talking about is the bill. Bill Cosby that was in the 70s and the 80s when he was doing these terrible things, his public-facing image was not just that of a performer,

but one of a performer that was deeply, deeply, deeply dedicated to the black conditioning experience. There's just no way around that. Bill Cosby would talk and make videos and have parts of his shows that were about exploring black history, exploring the hidden parts of black history, the hidden parts of white supremacy that we don't see around us every day. Everything he did was black. It was Fat Albert. It was uptown Saturday night. It was all of this stuff. It was the Cosby show. And then the Cosby show sort of crystallizes his beliefs on America in this family. And his vision. His vision of what he wanted to present. Right.

Black America. Super duper, crazy authentically black. Authentically black in the way the family is multi-generational. The grandparents are around all the time. Authentically black in the art and the dress. There was nothing whitewashed about the huxibles. They weren't black excellence. They were black people who had done things that America found palatable.

It was incredibly powerful and he ruined it, which is another just example. of how you don't want to get into a situation where someone's personal peccadillo's failings, terrible things, color who they are. But that's just the way life is. But can I ask this? Because even when I was thinking about whether we should draft it or not, I was thinking about it this morning,

I was like, I remember after the passing of Chadwick Boseman, I talked to Felicia Rashad. And it was like this moment in my career was like, oh my gosh, I grew up watching you. And I think about her, she's still a legend. You can't take anything away from her. But there is a level of them like how much punishment, even advertently should her, like how much of her legacy should take a hit?

Because the biggest, already the biggest thing that she was made a part of. Same thing RIP, Malcolm and Jamal Warner. How much should their legacy take a hit? Like, for the failings that had nothing to do with them. Nothing, nothing. They had no hits. I think that there are other things that people, and I call her Miss Rashad.

There are other things that people might have issues with Ms. Rashad over in terms of the way she's maybe defended or spoken about Bill Cosby. But the show itself is the show itself and it is the unimpeachable first pick of any draft that has to do with black television shows just the way that it is. I'm sorry. If they kill me, I'm blaming you.

It's what it is. Number one pick for me, if you couldn't get the Cosby show, I'm taking good times. Yep. I don't know what show Jomey thought was also going to be. drafted. It's not good times.

I mean, I've, okay, so good times. I had my number one overall pick that actually wasn't pre-90s. Yeah.

So I'm going classic. You're going good time. Okay. I'm going classic. I'm going good times. The reason why I'm going

classic, I'm going good times, is because I got to get something from that classic era. Me going classic first is respecting the fact that good times at Jefferson's all of those different shows like that

were holding it down in the time when it was three networks, not that many shows. The Times itself, the creative behind the show was oftentimes fraught. That's a Norman Lear show. It was oftentimes fraught in terms of like how much shine JJ was getting and whether or not Esther Rolls and John Amos were comfortable with some of the portrayals of black people and JJ the dynomite.

The show was black in its presentation. It was social. It dealt in all these different characters. But also it was having some real black problems behind the scenes in terms of that never-ending fight for how we should be presented to these audiences. All right, that's mine. So good times. Number two, gentlemen. I'm in a pickle now.

I thought that I would, you guys would solve this problem for me, but you didn't. So now I'm, I got a really, ah, my head or my heart, my head or my heart. You know what? I'm going, I'm going to go with my head. I'm going to take Martin third. I thought Martin was going to be my actual number overall pick. If I'm just talking about just level of comedic excellence achievement, I think it's probably the greatest.

Martin's amazing. If it's not the Cosby show in terms of sitcoms, I think Martin might. Really? Yeah. So you guys, so if it's not the Cosby show, you guys is number two overall. I was going to pick Martin. I didn't want to get it. I was like, we got to historically.

Okay. I don't want to name. other shows that, because I don't want to fuck the drag. There's nothing I have against Martin. Martin is fucking hysterical. I think the character of Martin is the single funniest character in television history. Martin and,

Martin, I don't want, Martin Lawrence at his peak. Martin Lawrence, Pete Martin Lawrence is like insane. Like, Martin Lawrence at his peak is, it's nuts how funny he was on that show. Wait, do you think it's the top five Blackson, or no?

Yeah. If it didn't go in the first round, we'd be looked that crazy. You guys, but I'm also, I'm also, I'm also might be because we've been doing this show. Like, there are a lot of shows out there. So let's just keep going with the drag. All right. My thing, my, I watched Bad Boys. Bad boys just come on on, I didn't have cable growing up.

It would come on like one of them channels, whatever. I watched it. I already seen, like, Fresh Prince of other people's houses. I was like, no, this is fun. Like, Martin Lawrence, but I didn't, like, outside of like, what, Big Mom house. Right. I wasn't watching

I wasn't until Nick at night. We got cable when I was 12. And Martin came on Nick at night. And I said, oh, Martin Lawrence from a bad boys. I like, bad boys, I watch it. I was like, oh, man. I always, like, loved Will Smith. He was funny, great, the whole thing.

I'm like, oh, Martin, Martin, just as funny. Yeah. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I... That was my comic show. I would go get home from class and Martin, it would always be a marathon. I just watch it.

Sure, I love you, Martin. Zeeb, you're up All right I mean this was frankly A very easy Pick now after that Martin went away I'm gonna go with the Fresh Friends of Bel Air Yeah

I iconic sitcom I watched this as a kid all the time Loved every second of it I think this was probably I want to say I was like 10 years old when I first got introduced to Will Smith And it was part of When somebody said like

Oh you know he's a rapper And then I had to, like, go back and, like, watch, like, my other friends, like, cable channels to be, like, YoMTV raps, get introduced to Digital Underground and everything that him and DJJJJJ. Jeff were doing. This was, like, an iconic show, just part of my childhood, bar none. It's an amazing show. What is this your underground have to do with it? Because they were on YoMTV wraps. Oh, I thought you were about to say Will Smith was in digital.

No, he was not. He was not. No. I don't even do you like that. I don't think that I was going to confuse Humpty with Will Smith? Have I ever told you all about Humpty story? What's your Humpty story? Spell it with an umpty.

I'm going to get killed for this. But I have to put myself... Oh, no, no, you did tell this. I did tell you. I did tell you. I don't know this. High school. I did not know that hump thing.

Oh, right. Yeah, you did say this. You didn't know they were too. They were just wearing glasses. I didn't know that Humpty in shock. Shout out to Derek Darnsberg. Derek Densberg. He had a little bit of a...

Derek Densberg had a little bit of a stutter. He went, that's the same person. Don't do this. Don't do it. It was just funny, bro. It was so funny, man. It is the same person.

Man, bro. Derek was the man. Shout out to Derek. Okay. You got another picture. Meteoric rise from Will Smith in that show. Do I have time

to wait for UPN? Yeah. That's the main question. You could wait for U.P.E. They got a lot. I know. Whole-ass boy? All right.

I apologize. For classic, I'm going to do Sanford and Son. Oh, it's very nice. Because I love Red Fox. Red Fox. You're two strong selections. I know. Yeah.

If Steve Williams. And here's the thing. I'm like a huge, like, I grew up more, again, I was introduced to Red Fox because of his stand-up comedy first and his, like, comedy routines before I saw it the show. Your parents were listening to Red Fox? What the fuck are you talking about? Is that true? Yes.

You were listening to Red Fox before? You were listening to Red Fox before your, it. My grandparents loved Red Fox before. loved Red Fox. You're looking at me like Professor X right now. Is this bullshit? No, it's not. I promise you.

Richard Pryor and Red Fox, they had those albums spinning in my grandparents' house. And you knew those before you saw him on Sanford's son. That's a, that's it. I can't even say that. I knew Fred Sanford first, and then I went back and listened to the Red Fox

and was fucking shocked at what I was hearing on the records. That's Stave was, you always, the more you know about the more you know about, Steve, man. No, my grandparents, like, they loved comedy records.

And that was, like, Richard Pryor, Red Fox, that was their thing. What was, what was it? Was it TV land? That was, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. TV land definitely has those classic movies. TV land, Sanford and they was playing that.

I was like, that. Elizabeth. As a kid. That character is insufferable. That was the first time I was like, damn, we could be this mean on television. Yeah. I was like,

out. All right. Show me. Got to take, I got to take a classic here. I'm gonna go You know what I'm gonna go with the different world

Oh All right Never saw this Never saw this So We were talking about this the other day One of the most beautiful woman

To ever grace The earth And the hit from The coldest From the big bang all the way till now Lisa Bonnet Good God Almighty One of the coldest.

Lisa? You guys know how, you know, the whole biracial situation. But like, it's... Is that on the way? You got to stop. Lisa Bonnet is cold. Okay? 1988?

There's going to be a one-shed. You know what? Do yourself a favor. Everybody right now. Yep. Just, like, just Google. I'm Googling right now. Lisa Bonnet.

Yeah, it's... Ninety-eight. Lisa Bonnet. Lisa Bonnet. You have the... Lisa Bonnet. You got a year. It's cold.

Nah. It's nuts. It's ridiculous. Oh, Jesus. Lord. Have mercy, bro. Fellas. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, it's, yeah. The, bruh. Yeah. Could. Hey, man. You know what?

I can only go back. She, you know. It's cold, bro. So, okay, so outside of Lisa Bonnet's fineness. Lisa Boat. Act.

Dog, this is one of the most people. What? That's the point. It's a lot. You're hit the. I found this out. Oh, my God. Like, I found this out way too late, but this was a spinoff of the Cosby show.

I did not know that. Because I did not grow up watching the Cosby show. Also, you didn't, also, this is a blur. This is Wikipedia was pop, and I was like, damn, Bill Cosby, a Lisa Bonnet, were beat. She, she, was beef. It was beef. She knew. She's like.

It was, well, no, it was, there was a lot of, there was beef going on. And then Lisa Bonnet had started to spread her wings a little bit. Yeah. and respectability politics came in. Angel Hart. Of course. All kinds of deals. And then like the different world spinoff, actually,

different world, Lisa didn't get necessarily, from what I remember, she didn't get kicked off the Cosby Show for a different world. You got kicked off different world. She got our own spinoff because she was becoming such a big deal and Denise was graduating. Oh. Different world is what she got fired from because of everything that was happening. like who Lisa Bonnet was and then some of the problems she had with Bill Cosby and all that, stuff like that.

And then like Lisa for a while, she continues to work as an actress, but she then becomes like a mysterious figure in like American culture. Almost to the point that my mother used to think that Bill Cosby was like blackballing Lisa Bonnet. Oh. And my mom used to say stuff like that just like we didn't see her as much. And you'd have thought that that's not a crazy theory. You would have thought that like, you'd have thought that Lisa Bonnet would have been Hallie buried throughout the rest of that decade.

My mother used to be like, where did she go? Like, what happened? She then comes back to the Cosby Show, though, we should say. Yeah. She comes back to the Cosby Show. Yeah, she comes back to the Cosby Show. So, like, things get patched up. But even after that, like, my mom was like, we don't see Lisa Monet as well. I wonder if things are all good. But she did come back to the Cosby. Richard Tomé was also on season one.

Man, the host, like, Jada Pinkett, Don Lewis, Glenn Term. Like, we're talking about people going crazy on different world. Different world is one of the... That's a fucking fantastic show. You know, I'm being from Baton Rouge, my dad went to Southern and all of that. Black colleges were a part of my life,

but just to see on... You could not wait to get on somebody's yard and do your thing, different world. It's coming back. Wait, they're bringing a different world back? Really? Oh, wow. It's coming back.

Everything's a revival. It's your turn, man? No, it's not. Is it? Yeah. It is? Hold on. Oh, I'm going unconventional here.

I'm getting a show. to half. I'm drafting in Wildcar early. I could have taken it late. You guys are not going to draft it. I'm taking a living color. That was literally on the list. It was on the list. I'm taking a living color. All right. No, living color is amazing. It doesn't matter

what black television draft. It would exist. I have got to take it. No, the living color is amazing. I have to have the show on my team. This is one of the most important television shows, bar none ever. If you're

talking about talent coming out of a show, if you're talking about a show changing the way that comedy is written, I don't know, like dog. I could make an argument that in living color is the reason why we have such big Super Bowl halftime shows right now. Right. You could know. They did the competing halftime show. We watched it.

Then the NFL was like, fuck it, we got to go get Michael Jackson to come out. It's not making an argument. That's literally what happened. Wait, can I ask you that if we did a top five, like, if we did TV shows talent coming out of it, like, most influential. Oh my God. Like, SNL would probably be number one. Yeah. But also, but in living color, I, you can make the, you make the top eye.

Early Jim Carrey, are you kidding me? Especially for a show that didn't. Jaylo is, like, especially for a show that didn't. Jaylo was, okay. Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's fucking facts, though. Wayne and Al-N-N-R-A-L-W-A-L-W-A. And then you got to look.

Shout out to FD Signifier in his video, his amazing, brilliant Tyler Pervier. Shout out to FD Signifier who talks about the fact that when you start looking at this stuff, it live in color happens because Robert Townsend does Hollywood Shuffle. Then Hollywood Shuffle gives birth to like, it helps Keen and Ivory Wans and then Keen Ivory Wands.

A fucking genius in this. I'm going to get you sucker, then live in color. All of these things, Eddie Murphy's in there as far as his effect on people. There's this cyclical nature of black influence and inspiration that leads to in living color being one of the funniest most relevant shows ever. We'll say this.

If you guys are going to go back and watch in living color because you're hearing us talk about on this, put your big boy pants on. It's a different time. It was 1991. Okay? So if you're going to go back and watch it, put your big boy pants on. Crazy stuff. It was 1990.

It's a little different. All right. All right. So you get two. You know what? I'm going to get, because people are going to be mad with the first pick, but it had to be done.

So in sitcom, I'm getting a little wily. I'm taking Atlanta. Oh. Okay. Okay. A very new. Yeah.

But I think if we're talking about really, I think Atlanta insecure at a time when there's not a lot of black TV on, on streaming, on television, or whatever, I think you kind of get this new crop of creators. I think for what Atlanta did for that time period. And I really think I believe Donald Glover at one point said like, yo, why can't I strive to make my sopranos?

I think that is obviously a very nuanced. It kind of just like if you want to get into like what that means about what he said. But I do like when an artist is like, I'm shooting for the fucking movies. I have all of the same touchstones as you. I love fucking David Lynch. I love prestige film. Like let me really try. to go for it.

And I know people have their feelings about how Atlanta ended or whatever, but it's a classic of the form. Know what I really love about Atlanta? And I don't want anyone to take this as a shot to Donald Glover. I don't. Because Donald Glover is

what are my creative deities, right? So I don't want anyone to take this as a shot. Donald Glover comes out and he's what's the name of his sketch comedy group? Derek Comedy? Derek Comedy. So he has that. Then he has community.

He wrote on 30 Rock. He wrote on 30 Rock. So Donald Glover is existing in spaces where he is the funny black guy. And for a while, Donald Glover's identity seemed like the funny black guy in the white space, right? That seemed like a deal. Nobody really had a problem with it because I feel like, not that I remember, I felt like at that time, we maybe weren't litigating that stuff as much. We weren't having constant conversation. I don't even think we're not only were we not litigating it.

I think it was happening across entertainment because the boom of the internet, you had Twitter and Tumblr. The 2010s were a lot. I remember this being a time where people, pitchfork wrote up, they were surprised that fucking Jay-Z and Beyonce went to a grizzly bear concert.

You guys are like, who's grizzly bear? They were an indie band. They were great. They were great. But we were litigating at this point, white people were like, oh, black people, like other stuff, they like white art and I think

Donald Glover got kind of wrapped up in not only being the only black person in a white space but having touch points that I think I know all black people had but a lot of times a white audience was like no that's for us you guys aren't smart enough

you're not cultured enough to really get the shit that we're doing over here and it's like so that goes on for a while right I don't I still think it's the one battle after another conversation If you go back and you look at some of the stuff in the comedy now of Donald Glover. And there was an appeal there.

You know, he was doing the college circuit as far as like his stand-up comedy and stuff like that. Then there starts to be this change. And the change is twofold for me for Glover. Number one, his art starts to get like really serious. Yeah. When you, when and a lot of people have had different feelings about like camp and because the internet and all that stuff like that. I mean, the line is he stopped rapping on Asian girls. And that was...

I mean, yeah. I mean, look, when... Because the internet, when it came out and just watching everything around it, I was like, oh, like, he has something to say. And maybe he doesn't even know what it is, right? He's like, maybe he doesn't even know, like, how to say it.

He doesn't know... But he has something to say, like, the depth of what he was trying to approach and talk about like on the album was like there's something, there's something, he's destabilized in some way, there's something that's happening to him that he can't put his finger on and he's trying to figure out what it is

and how he's trying to say it. Sonically, it made sense, but he's talking about like, nihilism and identity and all of that stuff. He has a song called World Star. I feel like we forget, like I remember the destabilizing thing of having a website where you are going

to watch like uphorrent shit like just like I still fuck with it no real store but you get what I mean where it's like before this you could not just like

lock up right and just type in and just be like black people beat each other just like crazy shit and I do think because the internet he is trying to grapple with something that wasn't just a black condition

it was a human condition where it's like when you're going on YouTube Instagram or whatever you have constant information coming to you and what does that do with a black experience? And I think Atlanta, to me, is actually the best showcase for that type of... That's what ended up happening was, I remember he goes on the breakfast club and he goes, you know, I want to be, I just want to be big and white. And then everybody's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

It's like whiteness is blankness. He, there is an angst for a lot of black creatives to where they just go, it's the... I always try to put it in words, but I never do a good job. But like, sometimes you sit down and you watch Star Wars and you go, man, like, There's no black people in this. And you go, you know, I would like to make something that's in the, I would just like a part of my experience to be the way America just comes to story. And I have to filter it through something that America understands, like filter it through something in the hood or filter through something in slavery or filter it. I want to just be able to tell this big sci-fi, deep sci-fi story about all of these things.

And I don't want to have to translate it in setting or something like that for America to get it. He ends up doing that by doing that. Atlanta ends up becoming the way that Donald Glover achieves this incredible cultural zenith. And it's the most devastatingly him thing ever. It is black. It is black. The characters are black. The characters are relatively black.

It is in the blackest city. I want to say necessarily the blackest city. But what we perceive as being the blackest city of black mecca, it's all of these things. but it's also avant-garde. It's also highly artistic. It's all of the things that people didn't think you could do with black art and black media. I don't know why didn't feel like we have been doing this stuff, but he ends up doing it by like really reaching his hand back out to us.

It wasn't the fact that we didn't receive Donald Glover. He wasn't kind of, it didn't seem like he was trying to talk to us. and he talked to us in the nerdy, weird, off-color way, and we was like, no, we get it. We know niggas like, we know niggas that went to Princeton and then had to come back. Like, you think we don't know you, but brother, I'm telling you, we know you.

We, we in the hair with the, with the nigger that come in and he got the, all of that guy, you think we don't know that guy and we don't care about that guy? We do know him? We do. But do you think that it ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy because it's like, he achieves the thing that he finally wants.

I think he gets a level of acceptance and he gets his vision out in the world. And then I do think Atlanta gets pushed into the because it's the show, it's the black show. Now, every episode we have in conversations like, is Donald Glover really a coon? Does he really stand for this? And I'm just like, hey, yeah, sometimes it could be a TV show

and sometimes like they can whiff on the politics and you just kind of have to be like, all right? Is there a constant, is Atlanta kind of the show where you kind of find yourself, I mean, like, is it that deep or is it not that deep every single time? I mean, Atlanta was able to do, Atlanta did stuff. Them niggas were some niggas that was in that writer's room.

I know, but it was the third fourth season was that's when it got. Yeah. I loved it. No, I'm not talking about the TV show. I'm talking about the discourse about the TV show. Okay. Was almost hampering my enjoyment of. Well, the show did start.

So Atlanta did stuff like, you know, The Invisible, car, Atlanta did stuff like One of the first couple episodes, what, they opened the, uh, the winning box and it's like, uh, it's like Pope fiction. Yeah, right. They continually did stuff like that. Like they, they did the thing with the club promoter and all of that stuff.

Even they were doing the trans joke in the fucking what second episode? I was like, what the fuck are y'all? Right. But all of that stuff though was, it was so it was so relatable, so understandable, so digestible. I think what ended up happening is like Atlanta then does the Mr. Chocolate episode, the Tyler Perry deal.

Atlanta started to on our Teddy Perkins. They started to from a standpoint, they started to litigate some things that might have been considered wholly and untouchable in the black community. And that is the way that certain parts of the community go, you're not with us. But isn't that baked into the history of black television where it's like you have, you have,

have the like, oh, this is the episode where we're going to talk about race. This is the episode we're going to talk about. A very special episode. A very special episode. And I think in those latter seasons, the conversations they were having were very, no, no, black people have these conversations internally. You making these jokes for, that's going to air on Netflix. Atlanta had a very, very sizable white audience. I think people started getting a little bit like.

I understand. And like just knowing that that many people, because when you make the show and the way, that they made it, right? Yeah. Knowing that that many people who are not black love the show, people just start to go,

well, if you know that's the case, you can't make fun to Tyler on the show. Yeah. If you know, if you know as the case, you can't do the weird Michael Jackson character

on the show because it's almost like giving white people permission to laugh at things to have conversations that we might have but we might not be comfortable with them.

Can you bring Liam Neeson in to apologize to everybody? Right. Like, that type of thing. That was crazy. That was such an insane thing to think about. That's incredible.

We're talking about shit. We're like, yo, remember I forgot that Liam Mason. The Leominium episode like stays in my brain forever.

But the reason why we can move off Atlanta after this, but the reason why I give them such credit for that is that is the type of thing to why we would all be sitting around because we know we have these conversations

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They did that. All right, so my next pick, you know what? This is, I'm going to go with another number one overall pick just in the category because this did damage in college. I got to go Sean to rhyme scandal. Yeah, if you didn't get it, I was going to take that. The scandal hit the hood. Scandal is so crazy.

Scandal was, because this was a word of mouth show for me where I was watching like Breaking Bad or whatever. Shout out my cousin Quasi, who's a professor now at Tuskegee. He's like, ah, but are you on that scandal? I'm like, scandal. Well, he's like, no, no, you go to watch it. And I, bro, from the first episode, I'm like, what type of interracial mess is going on? Scandal, scandal is the number one interracial show ever.

Ever, huh? Y'all, dude. Ever. The thing of another show, I think scandal might be the number one. I think that's the number one. Well, it has one other. Someone else can draft, but it has one other. Interracial?

Interracial. Shout out. Shout out, shout out. Wow. Power ain't up there? Oh, as far as...

The shit ghost was doing. He was jogging around New York, spinning around fucking poles with his shotty, bro. Come on. But let me just tell you, like, Fitz, and what's, Olivia Pope?

And Olivia Pope. Their relationship on this show is not only so funny when they bring in Olivia's dad. Oh, my God. I like... He was... Go more than... I forget what episode it was, but that one where he tore her up.

Yeah. He went crazy. He was like, I was like, oh my gosh. That's your, that's supposed to be your daughter. What's what you doing? Every single episode where Fitz would kick Olivia to the curb and she would go back to an apartment drinking with wine, eat popcorn down bed. I'm like, pick yourself up. For some reason, though, I wasn't, the Olivia Fitz thing, it never bothered me.

Man, like, it was supposed to bother me, but it didn't, man. I mean, you know, it's... It never fucking bothered me, man. It was supposed to bother me, but it didn't bother me. Is it weird now that, like, when scandal came out, I was just like, oh, this got the soap opera flare. Man, there's never going to be a president, a white president sneaking him in his black chocolate side shit. And now I'm like, now I'm like, no, that's just what we like. That's regular.

That's regular. I mean, but instead, you know, it's just a bunch of pedos in the White House. It's tough. Yeah. So, scandal is off the board. So I'm just going to leave Sean the rhymes alone at this point. I'm going to come back to her later. Okay.

I got to go sitcom. Sitcom is, by far, you know what? I'm not going to go sitcom. Oh. It's like, that's the most loaded category. That's the most loaded category. Yeah, you got an amazing picture. I think we fucked up. I think we should have done a whole 90s category, actually.

I think we should have probably done a whole 90s category anyway. But I can't go sitcom because sitcom got too many hits. So I'm going to go UPN. Where you going? I'm going to take the number one UPN show. I'm going to take Moesia. Yeah. God damn.

So I got to get a number one. I got to get an unimpeachable number one. So I got to get Moesia. Shout out Moesia. Shout out the legend Ray J. Shout out the legend Ray J. Shout out Brandi. Shout out.

Shout out Sherley Ralph. I tell you what, though. Fuck Frank. Yeah. Fuck the dad. the worst. You have the floor. Talk about it.

Frank, you are the worst father in the history of not just black TV. Frank might be the worst father in television history. Frank continuously, do not miss moving on up a history of black television. We talk about this. Frank continuously gets taught lessons by Moesha. Yep. Moesha parents, Frank, Frank says stuff, hey, need you home by 11.

Moesha turns around, Dad, you don't even know what 11 o'clock means. Deep shit. They just fucks Frank up. Then on top of that, Frank, we think Frank is this paragon of respectability and right and virtue. The whole time Frank got a son and they say it's a cousin. they ain't told the kids Frank been doing the whole non Frank ain't shit

it's so funny Frank with Frank told Ray J's character that Ray J couldn't play the booty song when he was DJing at the at the fucking thing nigga you don't tell me nothing

you don't tell me nothing fake dad fake daddy you don't say shit to me you have meant nothing to us okay Sell some fucking cars and keep the lights on. You can't do anything. Moisha with Frank called...

Moesia stayed overnight with her friends. Frank called her a whore. Where that guys to party? Moesha looks at Frank and goes, what, you think I'm over to fucking? No, you don't trust me, Dad. Go to your room. My bad, Moesia.

Shut the fuck up. Frank makes me sick. And I also think that Frank was a commentary on maybe how some people were feeling about Black fatherhood in the men. I think when you saw the way a lot of the dads were portrayed on these UPN shows, I'm giving away

stuff that's in the pot now. I think a lot, there was a lot of angst about- It's the anti-uncle Phil. Yeah, there was a lot of angst. It was coming out of Bill Cosby, Uncle Phil guys, there was a lot of angsts. That's what I was going to ask. When do you feel like, do you feel like

Bill Cosby and Cliff Huxable just the shadow that he had on Black's comms after that where it's almost like every single you had to be a judge, you had to have a respectable fucking job, you were their doctor, you were a lawyer, you were consp like

you were the moral and ethical line for all of blackness and do you feel like with Mawisha they're just like, we are not censoring the black dad like that anymore. Well, I think particularly on UPN there were black fathers that were good, but I think that there was

some interest in kind of talking about what it meant if Cliff Huxable wasn't around. And that kind of was explored in the First Prince of Bel Air a little bit, but then you have somebody essentially stands in for Cliff Huxable. Then there was a little bit that on television, and then black people started, we popped up and we remember something. We have great families with great fathers.

And we didn't need a mainstream American narrative about black man as fathers. We didn't need that to govern the way we portrayed them on television. So what you started to see was shows like the Hugley's, shows like my wife and kids. Bernie Mac. Like Bernie Mac. You start to see shows with maybe fathers

who are unconventional the Bernie Mac shows a great show. Start to see shows like that but when we're writing ourselves we write good dads because we have good dads. And I also think it's the thing

where it's like and it's so funny when you take the history of the white sitcom how many family sitcoms with a white father the white father gets to be bumbling. He gets to have an attitude.

He gets to almost be like the dumbest character. Homer Simpson, where it's like the black, to your point where according to gym, we want to shape, because. Married and children? Yeah, yeah. Maritism, yeah. But I do think it's very funny that in the white sitcom, we're used to like the bumbling

drunkard white father and then in the black sitcom, like, dog, it's kind of damaging. Yeah. Got to be, yeah. That's true. All right. Where are we at now? It's my turn. Going wildcard here.

Because I feel like, I mean, I'm, I mean, I'm. It might still be there, but I'm just taking it right now. Taking the wire. Oh. I don't think the wire counts. I don't either. The wire's not black TV. The wire doesn't count.

The wire's not black TV. Hi, my name is Van Lathen. This is a clip. The wire's not black television? No, no, no, no. For the purposes of the black TV draft. All right, man, you're not being serious. You can't draft the wire.

You can't draft the wire. It is substantially rooted. in black. No, it is rooted in blackness, but it's created by a white man. A lot of these shows weren't created by white people? Yes, but the protagonist is a white cop. And as the series, and this was always baked into the series, it is telling the story of Black America. It is telling the story of what was happening in Baltimore at that time. But I just think because of the positioning of the show,

I don't know necessarily if a lot of black people were on the show, you know, I just think for the purposes of this draft, it's a little, it's a little tricky for me. When I'm thinking about the wire, and like, to your point, I'm thinking, like, obviously about McNulty. And, like, but for me,

I'm thinking about, like, what really, what really drives the show. Yes. And that's Daniels. That's Freeman. Right? You have schema.

The show, like, I even, like, forget the drug dealers, which is, like, obviously, like, they're all black. It's just, like, inherently just on that, side, Omar, Idris,

you know, like that, all of that is black. You're talking about the cops. It's really like, what, McNulty, the dude who shot the dude and went to go be a teacher for two years, like, and then, and then, what's his name, Lanceman?

Everybody else in, everybody else is black. Like, bunk. Like, we're operating the show. But to me, that's what the show evolved into. I think that was always going to be the spine of the show, but because they literally had to beg to get

on the air each time. Even the second season is like, it's a pivot where it is like the second season is not as black as the first. And then by the third on, I think they're realizing like, oh no, we actually

know what the heart of the show is. I'm not, I had the same thought. I'm not mad at you. I just think even when you look on the list of greatest black shows. It's on there. The wires on there. Arjuna says, yes, so listen, so this is a

fundamental this is a fundamental deal, right? So you guys would all say the color purpose of black movie, right? Steven Spielberg, yeah. However, but the guy who put the movie fucking together, Quincy Jones, all of this stuff, all of these amazing black people involved in it,

but they want the movie made with sort of this technical elegance, and so they bring in Steven Spielberg. Now, I can look at the movie and tell that a white man directed it. I can't, I'm sorry, I'll go forward with you guys, the movie wouldn't have been fucking different. Ryan Cool is a color purple is a lot different, right?

Blitz is color purple is a lot. I can tell, right? But still, though, the question about whether or not a show that is as heavily culturally black as the wire is, and it is, like you learn about black cultural norms in the wire, black cultural norms that oftentimes are wrapped in criminality, right? Yeah. But you still learn about church on Sunday in Baltimore.

You still learn what they eat. where they go, the basketball game stuff. You still learn a lot about West Baltimore black culture and the wire. But the wire is not about black people. The wire is about Baltimore. Dysfunction, systemic dysfunction, litigating the police, the school, the dock. The newspaper. The newspaper.

It's about Baltimore. Baltimore is a black city. So the question becomes, is anything about Baltimore that reflects the city honestly, inherently black? Is anything about New Orleans that reflects the city honestly? You can't tell a story about New Orleans and tell it honestly unless you talk heavily about the problems, goals, and conditions of black people. But would you say, because I think the wire to me is shot through a white lens, but the reason that it might not be as apparent is because it's also a journal. Listic lens where it's like it because it is based on because it is based on a book Because it is heavily reported

Because they actually went to the city and they're casting people that are from the city I do think that it's like if someone said it was a black show I'm like honestly if we were on the street I would never argue with you it just to me for some reason in my mind I don't know if I situated as when I'm talking about black I don't know if I situated in that lineage But I might be wrong. Can I ask, like, is it the divide between, like, a portrayal of cultural authenticity versus the creative people behind it and the actual, like, lens that in which it is portrayed by those creatives? Or is it something different? I just don't.

And maybe this just might be a me thing. Whenever I think of the wire, I immediately just don't go, like, black show. David Simon, Ed Burns, George Pelicanos. the people in the writer's room not black. No. So it's just in my mind and maybe I know too much about the wire

but like you can't say that they did any sort of like cultural disservice. No, no, no, not at all. The wire is is a top three television show for me of all time. I love the wire. We're going to get a call back

but we're going to get a call back from someone that's going to help us with this argument. Let's put let's let's let's let's let's let's log that choice. Okay. Let's log that choice. and then we're going to come back. So Jomey has picked the wire.

Wait, why are you actually giving your, like, real opinion? What you mean? Do you think the wire is a black television? I have never thought about it. And that's why I was so into it. I've never actually thought about it. When you said the wire is from the white gaze, I guess inherently it's from the white gaze

because of the creators and the way they look at stuff, but I think the genius of the wire is that it's actually not from any gays at all or from multiple gays. That's what I meant by like, it's the journalistic gaze. It is the fact that they are attacking that show. Like, it is a Baltimore show, and because Baltimore is black,

and every season is looking at a different vantage point of Baltimore, that's why I think you can get away with maybe the writer's room being predominantly white or feeling like when, because I was like, can I draft, at home I was like, can I draft this? And I was like, no, don't draft. it, but I think the wire

is something that over time to me you could argue became a black show because the heart of it from the actors to what people remember about it

the best moments are black people hold on for a second let me let me tell the people who we're on the phone way right now hey what's up man it's Julito McCullum

naming Bryce the wire naming Bryce hell yeah The son of Weebe Bryce, one of the only characters to come out of this show with a little hope. All right. So we couldn't figure it out. Do you think that the wire is a black show?

I do not. I do not. It's tough. I know the wires that go about systems. And it's a show about the drug trade. And when you talk about the drug trade, that is the main character. It is about drugs. And then you watch the show kind of narrow down why and how the drug trade works.

And so you see it from, unfortunately, the inner city. But then you watch how it occurs and how it shows up in the political world. In law enforcement, you watched with the Greeks who are the real, like, kingpins of this. We are just very, very small fries. We are, as they would say, what, pawns? Some smart-ass pawns. Some smart-ass pawns. Some smart-ass pawns.

Shout out JD. Bodie. Yeah, so it just so happened that the best characters are the show of black people. So we are doing right now a black television draft, drafting the very best shows,

black shows, and the history of TV. Do you think the wire should be eligible to be drafted? Well, of course, because, Because it's predominantly a black cast. Oh. Okay. But then this is not going to be fair.

Why would you do that to all those other shows? That's what I'm saying. It's tough. So, Louie, you think the wire is the best black show of all time? Yes. Wow. So it's both not a black show. But see, this is what we kind of...

It's on the line. It's on the line. See, you didn't set me up with this dynamic here. All right. Now we talk about that. Yeah, I mean, the only thing I... I didn't even know what better. So let me ask...

So we drafted a lot of them, right? So the rule... The final ruling is yours. We're getting a ruling from cast members of the show. The final ruling is yours. Should my friend Jomey be able to draft the wire in this draft? Yes, Jomey, you got it, brother. Jomi's got it.

Jomey's got it. Thank you. All right, you're doing such amazing stuff. We're not going to let you go without you telling people everything that you got going on and everything you're getting off the ground and following your career and stuff like that. I appreciate it. Only then will call me with an improv to interview. I just dropped my album, 33 Winters.

What up? Available on all streaming platforms. It's doing amazing. Please check that out. I got a lot of huge things happening on the music. on a movie and TV film scene coming very soon but right now it's the music for me man

33 winters the album is out right now I'm working on a gospel album also Oh yeah I'm doing a little bit of everything But yes soon coming and follow me everywhere I am holito on all platforms So the gospel album is a religious album Like which side of it are you on All through it right so no no I mean

Which side of the religious conversation When you say it's the gospel, is it gospel, it's a gospel for God, or is it gospel for the other side? What's the other side? There's only one side. It's God. That's it.

Okay. Okay. There's no other side. God's side and the other side. I'm just saying, nobody makes gospel for the other. Anyway, all right. Are you calling for gospel to the other side? No, it's back.

You want to see in the world. This is legitimately, I hope everybody goes out and checks out there. This is legitimately one of the most talented, awesome people in this entire industry. So shout out for taking the call. I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much. I miss you, bro. I'll see you soon, man. All right, man. Love, bro. Peace.

Jomey's point about the fact that some of these shows are about white people. Yeah. White showrunners. White showrunners. And then some of the staffs as well. Yeah. Some of the staffs on these shows, like, they're not all white. Some of the staffs on these shows are white. Yeah. Right? They're either majority white or they're heavily white.

But they're coming from time. But these shows are steeped in blackness. So I guess the question would be if, like, white guys can write a show that we know is black because it is dealing in black themes. Can white guys write a show that deals in black culture or black dysfunction or whatever? And it just be almost, it just exists as black. Because the wire certainly is not trying to be black. That's what I'm trying to say.

The wire is not trying to be black. Yeah. Does it have to be written for the black gaze for it to be black? I think more so and I think what's so interesting about the wire because there's some UPN shows on here where it's like Kelsey Grammer. You know, he greenlit a lot of white. He greenlit black shows. I mean, Mara Brock Akekekekelly did girlfriends. A lot of people talk about Kelsey Grammer when they talk about fucking girlfriends.

Mara Brock Kill did girlfriends. Fucking Kenny Behras was on fucking girlfriends. Like, you know what I mean? So like you, you know, I just say this. Shout out to Kelsey Grammer, I guess. Nah, I've seen some of them recent. We don't got to do a shout out.

Sure. Why not? But look, but look. The reason why I say that, though, is because even that pisses me off not how I think about it. I'm sure that if I was to ask, you know, Tracy or Mara any of these people like that, they are fucking overjoyed that Kelsey Grammer

was such a big part of it. But, like, Kelsey Grammer, getting all that praise and love for doing girlfriend. when a beautiful black woman was behind girlfriends and put the girlfriends together. It's kind of the fucking the whole story. But that was interesting. Okay, put a pin in, Jomey.

Let's put a pin in it. I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it. Okay. Steve goes twice. All right. I go twice. I'm fine with Wildcark,

waiting on Wildcard because there's so many things I can do. Then I'll go for Shondo Rimes, and I'm going to pick how to get away with murder. Man, you wasn't in the trenches, bro. I couldn't do how to get away with murder I was scandal bro you're not in the trenches bro it's cool it's fine it's really just the Viola Davis

like puts on a clinic every week and yeah you wasn't locked in man so this show came out my freshman year in school right you get to talk about this show no he don't get to talk about this show wow all right

he didn't get to talk about the show y'all y'all y'all weren't there bro y'all y'all I was when I tell you that show had me messed up every week every week would be on some new garbage You talk about scandal being a soap opera, man. They would just be throwing stuff at the wall at high grade murder. You'd be like, ah, I guess we're here, man.

And guess what? Viola Davis sells it every single time. Well, she was going crazy. Yeah. Right? Like, every season, whether it's like the halfway point, when like the person who dies, we found out they die. Sorry, all right, time for her with her to cry for 20 minutes on screen.

And stop her to be like, buddy, no! Buddy, don't stay with me, buddy. Stay with me, Bonnie, though. Like, she, like, and she got the Emmy for that, like, obviously, like, deservedly sub. I never watched it. What was the show about? She was like a, she was a college professor.

College professor. Yeah. The class is how to go murder 101. And you'll never believe this. She's a murder. There's murders all the time, man. And they have to get away with them. It's, it's crazy.

But who's doing all the killing? So she picks, like, five students to be, like, her little, like, in her clubs. Yeah, like, a little, like, to be, get close to. It's, um, this way. Two white boys, this black girl. Can't remember the names that's been so long. Rome Flynn. Rome Flynn.

Well, he came, okay. So, spoilers, try to get her murder real quick. The black dude, who may or may not have been her son, died in a fire at the end of season two, I think, season two or season three. And it was really sad. We're all like, no, not West. Oh, my gosh. And then Rome Flynn came and replaced him. You know how, like, oh, no, he went.

And so we got another black guy to come. Like not B. West, but kind of B. West. No, I mean? So that was Rome Flynn. He was cool for a little bit. And then it got like, there was like, witness protections. It was crazy.

It was insane television. Just wild shit. I just love Iola Davis and that's just, that's the master class that she puts on every week in that show. All right. What else you got, Steve? Um, I think I need to go UPN because the, yeah, I think I need.

Everybody hates Chris. Okay. Europe. God. Yeah. I'm taking everybody hates Chris. There are like some more

like classic UPN shows on here that I probably gonna pick, but I'd be lying if I said that I watched them that extensively. Everybody hates Chris is great. Everybody hates Chris is good. That to me is the cheat in the UPN category. I've never watched an episode of it.

It's genuinely really good. It was on my 20s and like you know what I mean? So for me like it was on UPN for a year. Yeah. And that's where it was on for a man. There's a big like conversion of like classic UPN shows that go for like a season or two. and then they just immediately get up converted

to major networks and everything. America's Next Top Model did that, a bunch of other ones. Yeah, well, I mean, UPN became the CW. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, what's the Latin country where they go crazy for everybody loves Crisville? Brazil.

Brazil? Brazil? They was going crazy. Yeah, I remember he's like, yo, got, like, they love that show over there. I don't know for what reason. Maybe it was syndicated. I know everybody loves it.

I just never got it. I watched it. You didn't like it. It was never a big fan of it. It's good classic sitcom send-ups, and I think it's, like, probably one of the best things that Terry Cruz ever did, and he was like, he genuinely carried a lot of those things. It's tough. Why are you, wait, why are you sending shots of fucking Terry Cruz? You don't like him?

You don't like him? You don't like Terry Cruz? You don't like. When did I send shots to Terry Cruz? I said this was one of the best things he's ever done. You don't like Brooklyn Nine? What you basically say was great in Brooklyn Nine. Yeah, you don't like that.

He was great. You don't really like him. You don't like him. That's tough. Whatever happened towards him and you, you and you and you him don't give it. This is bad. It's a weird. It's a weird.

Terry Cruz, really? That's a weird. It's like, Terry Cruz sake? I mean, no, it's not weird. I know, I never knew you to have like an issue with him.

I don't have an issue. It's crazy. You did, though. Right. You said it was one of the best things you did is if this thing I had done a bunch of bullshit. Yeah, yeah. That and Americans got talent hosting gig.

Those are his best things these ever times. You know what I'm saying? That's another. That's another diss. Now when he's talking about. Now you're talking about. You're like, shout out Terry Cruz.

You're supposed to be honoring black people on this drop? Not tearing them down. That's tough. Man, I'm sliding down the ally ranking. I'm glad. You're going for top 10 to top 15. It's crazy. Well, he just sniked both of my picks.

I was hoping to go. But you know what? I'm going Shonda Rhams. Shout out my guys, Roger and Logan from real ones. Bridgeton boys, baby. We're going Bridgetton. Bridgeton's going.

And I can't, seriously. That first season of Bridgeton was crazy. Because you could go Grazed Anatomy, right? Because the whole Shonda Rimes so you can go with any. So you can pick anything. Anything. Okay.

But I'm not going Grace Anatomy because while there are black people and there are like, you know, essential the story. In that first season, bro, Ray J. J. J. Rup Page took the road on fire, man. That was special. We don't, we don't, I mean, I'm truly trying to think we don't see people do a show, be like, actually, I'm the man now. Now, we can, we don't have to speak to, you know, what he did after that. We can leave that alone, you know what I'm saying. Hey, Black Badd was great. But in that moment, he was the hottest thing.

He was a hottest thing around, man. He set the streets on fire, man. Come on, man. Come on. Can I ask this? Des Chandra rhymes in the same way that like Taylor Sheridan's like cheat code is just like, hey, yo, get me a ranch, get me some hillbillies. We about to make, we about to make a billy.

I know what you're about to say. I know exactly what you're about to say. I know exactly what you want to say. And the answer is yes. The answer is yes, brother. The swirl agenda has made her millions. I'm not even hating on it, but like. It's legitimately like, all right, so I got this.

this black lead. Who's why I pair them with? Ah, these black people on the show, but there's also, you know what? I thought about it. But I'm with a white person. Boom.

No, no, no, no. She's been Bridgeting, they expanded it. Based off books. Okay. You know what I'm saying? So it's a little, but you know the first season

had to go to the bread and butter. You know what I'm saying? I know what works. First time you go to somebody's house, you make a dish you've always made before, right? You don't want to get too crazy with it. Jomey's more locked in on Shonda Rhymes

than any other picks. Y'all were, bro, Thursday nights on ABC. Y'all weren't there, bro. Grace Anatomy, scandal, how to give him murder, nine, eight, nine, ten, it was special. I'm almost wondering now

if the Shawna Rhymes category was kind of a mistake. Because you laugh with this. No, no, no, no, no. That's fine. I mean, like, you're looking at it now, and these shows is not really black, like I talked about it.

She got three black shows. She got three black shows? Everything the Sean Rimes does is. It's coded. It's coded, but. All right. So where are we at now? Jomi,

Jomi went? I went, it's you. It's me. A sitcom. Sitcom is just too deep. I like, I still got, I still gonna point on sitcom.

I'm not doing something. Okay. Okay. I got to choose Sean the Rhymes before I end up with inventing Anna. Hey, good boy.

Hey, no inventing Anna slander here. What's that? So I got to do Sean the rhymes. I got to, I guess, Because this is a black lead. She's black, right?

Queen Charlotte is black. That's her? Yeah. Not Queen Charlotte. You doesn't even know. You haven't even watched it. I never saw it. You could take private practice?

Yeah. Private practice. But that's a white lady lead. I can't take that. Okay. I want to take that. I got to take Queen Charlotte. Now, I got to look at this lady that's Queen Charlotte.

This is, her name is India, R. Amar Tifio. What's your name? She was born on Kingston upon... Jesus Christ, she's... She's a Ghanian and German. Okay, I got to add another one to the list. Hold on for a second.

You're not adding her to the list. I'm adding to the list. How much money to reveal Vans Notesap? I got to add enough of... Wait, what is it up to now? Vance Notts app is crazy. My list of young biracial actresses that Hollywood is only casting for whatever reason.

My name is Steve Allman. This is a clip. It is now up to one. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Jesus Christ. Just every time I see a young black actress that's cast in a movie, the- Are you doing this with the brothers? The lead is biracial.

It's not happening as much. And so, like, this is fine. The brother be light-skinned. No, they don't. They're not as light-skinned as you think that they are. But, like, this is fine. It's okay. But I'm keeping it.

Because people say that I make a big deal about things. And so every time I see a new. young, biracial, lady actress. I just put her name in a list. I put her name in a list because people think this is not a thing that's becoming a trend that's starting to overwhelm.

And I'm just pointing this out that this is becoming a thing, right? And I know it's weird to talk about, but it's becoming a thing. But shout out to her, Queen Charlotte. I'm drafting her. Queen Charlotte. So I just got, I just, you know, my draft is done.

Charlotte arrives category about a bit of a bit of a bit. Yeah, it's just, shout out of it. Hey, we should show love to one of our great creators. Shout out to Shonda, man. No, shout out of Shanda. Scan on my show. That's what I'm saying. Princess Diaries, too, royal engagement.

Yeah. She wrote that. Shonda Rhimes is a fucking genius. Yes. I know. All right, UPN, we don't got to, we already talked about it a little bit. Four beautiful sisters.

I got to go girlfriends. Girlfriends. I love you, I love you, girlfriends. Shout out Tracy. I watched a lot of girlfriends. Because at that point, I think they were. doing marathons on BT and I will also come home from high school and be like let me see what the

girlfriend's what are they up to what's Tracy doing? Now damn I only got wildcard left and there's so many amazing shows do I try to win or do I go with my heart all right so right now I have the Cosby show

Atlanta girlfriends scandal you know what I got to do it because I watched a lot of this fucking show don't do it don't do it to me don't do it What are you about to do?

I watched a lot of this show. I got to go. Shout out. Wait, actually, I'm going with my heart. Fuck it. I'm going Keenan and Kellogg off Nickelode. Oh, okay. Hell yeah.

I'm going Keen and Kell yeah. Shout out. What about them? That's such a transformation show for me. Keenan and Kel was just something, especially at that time on Nickelodeon. I was like, these are the funniest dudes on all that. Right. Fucking Good Burger.

Yeah. Morn and So welcome the Good Burger. Home of the Good Burger. Can I take your order? Come on. Keenan and Cal was just a special. Special time. All right, so I'm up next.

For sitcom, I've been fucking around with it. I don't want to take another classic sitcom. I want to give love to the 90s. And so I'm going living single, man. Yep. Cool. T.C. Carson. I'm going living single.

There's, like, you could draft a lot of other shows here. But for me, living single is what I'm going to, take living single trendsetters. All right, because then there was another show about a group of friends living in the city and all of them motherfuckers ended up making $2 million episodes so stupid. Shout to them. Shout to them. But living single was my version of wanting to, like, have a group of friends in the city

doing their own thing, beautiful black people working as professionals, all of that. You know, Grant Hill came on the show. all of that shit was dope. So living single is my, and I like my draft. My draft is always, I like my draft. It's always perfect. You've never messed up not once. Like my, I like, I like my draft.

I don't know about Queen Charlotte. Queen Charlotte. Queen Charlotte. We'll educate yourself on Queen Charlotte. All right, Jomey, last pick. UPN. Gotta go to the Parkers. Yep, cool.

The Parkers. Got to go to Parkers. Shout out of Oneeat. Shout out to everybody on that show. That was one of those, my sister loved the Parkers. I was. My sister loved the Parker's, too. I used to argue on the TV because I wanted to watch what it's called WB Kids at the time while Jackie Chan adventures.

Jackie Chan Adventures is crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. Jackie Chan Adventures is crazy. You love Jackie Chan Adventures is crazy. So it's already, Jackie Chan Adventure already on Tooby. But on March 1st, they put every, like pretty much every single animated show in the, in the Wonder Catalog catalog on Toobie. It's because it was Yu-Gi-Gi-Chicin Adventures.

Shatwick Showdown. Challenge Showdown. Chowland Showdown. Transformer, cyber. Brother, if you need to get to me after March 1st, my phone is off.

Do not call me, Don Riemi. I'm not available. I am watching Shaland Showdown. That is my life. You don't know anything about Shalding Showdown. Wait, did you watch Jackie Chan Adventures?

Never heard of it. Oh, my God. You never heard of Jackie Chan Adventures. Never heard of it. Not because it was. They had the talism. They had the talismans and they all were the Zodiac. Jackie Chan adventures.

This is like early 2000s. He had a cartoon show where Jackie Chan was like in San Francisco? Yes. San Francisco at like an antique shop and basically he had talism that was all the zodiacary. Give you powers. Give you powers.

He had a little knees. What my favorite thing to watch in 2000 was, early 2000s? Black Juice. What is that? Go look that one up. I'm not going to. You know what? I am not.

What was the interconnection? Internet connection like? Like black juice was my favorite thing to watch. You guys talking about the two. I'm in my fucking 20s. You're talking about some Jackie Chan. The crime of being. Think about what

It would have been like If I'm like I'm fucking You know 9-11 just happened We all we all high I'm going to like I got to get home and watch Jackie Chan and movies What's your thing is talking about? I'm sorry we happened to be 11 at the time

After they abolish the fucking Extended the Star Wars extended The Star Wars extended universe That's different It's different Decanonization The Star Wars Extending universe is different But you getting on us

We're watching Jackie Chan adventures I'm not getting on you guys were kids But what you guys asked me If I see Jackie Chan adventures. Okay? Shows show down. Y'all and show.

You guys are asking me? You know what? There was one thing that I watched that used to come on sporadically. It was some kind of karate show that was hosted by Bruce Lee's daughter. And I'm telling you, it was some kind of show that used to come on that was hosted by Bruce Lee's daughter. And that show was something that I used to catch every now and again. It was Bruce Lee's daughter.

She hosted the show. And she would come on and she would be like, like, my legendary father, Bruce Lee, blah, blah, blah. Shannon Lee? Shannon Lee is her name. She hosted some sort of show. And I would watch that from time to time. But other than that, I was in my 20s, man. It was not Warrior, is it?

It might have been Warrior. I don't know. Warriors, like, no, Warriors. Amc Masters? WAMC Masters. I don't even know what that is. That was the show. WAMC Masters used to come in.

I will catch that sometimes. Well, other than that, I was watching Merck. Mark? Mark. Okay. All right. My last pick. Merck is the one of...

Merck, when we talk about black movies, Merck is one of the greatest black movies ever made. Don't even know what that is. It's artistic. It's artistic, okay. Go for it. You never heard of Millian Blue. Go ahead.

Inspired by your In Living Color Pick, I needed to go with something that I had watched a lot of, and that probably had... You had the most, like, the emerging talent at probably the peak of their powers ever. I watched this constantly when I first got cable. It was before my time. but I got to rewatch it.

I think it was because of like VH1 and BET. And that's deaf comedy jam. Oh, wow. That's not what I thought he was going to say. Okay. There's something that has remained undrafted. That's a fucking fantastic pick. Steve, you didn't know.

Steve showing out. Real quick, can I just like say the emerging talent that came on when they were like in their 20s? We have Bernie Mac, Chris Tucker, Martin Lawrence, Mike Epps, and like a litany of other people. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to pander here,

but I legitimately think Bernie Max I'm not scared of you motherfuckers set is like the equivalent of Beethoven to me It's like the greatest thing I've ever seen Oh god I ain't scared or you said He's got a picture of his face on his pants Jomey

You don't understand Damn It's tough Let me ask you guys something So the draft is set Well that will I will say Before people yell at us

I think the categories Fucked us a little bit We fucked up There was because there was I'll list some Some shit that Nobody drafted insecure. Right.

Nobody drafted power. Right. We didn't get, let's see what else. Nobody drafted the Bernie Mac show. Family Matters. Family matters. The boondocks.

The Jeffersons. It's on the other. Different strokes. Yeah. Proud family. That's all right. Proud family. What's happening?

What's happening? Didn't get drafted. A lot of stuff didn't have. The Sean Aram's category was a mistake. It was a mistake. I blame myself. Not because what Sean DeRimes does is it. She just hasn't made enough stuff.

Soul Train. Soul train. But you know what? Really didn't get drafted. In a black television history draft, The Chappelle Show. So it was on the bubble for me. On the bubble for me as well.

It was, I, here's the thing. Y'all already something with the Cosby Show. Politically, I can't end. Come on, bro. You can't do that twice. You can only do one. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. So, draft. I have Cosby Show, Atlanta, girlfriend. scandal, Keenan and Cal. Van, you have Good Times, Living Single, Moisha, Queen Charlie in living color.

Show me as a different world, Martin, the Parker's, Bridgetton, the Wire. Damn, Steve, he won this. Sanford and Son, the freshmen's of Bel Air. Everybody hates Chris. How to get away with murder. No, Charles, you easily want. Are you nuts? You got, like... The Kenney and the Kell fucked your draft up.

I felt like the Cosby Show sold his trip. The Cosby Show fucked me up. any fucking you have to be a moronical dimwit not to draft the COBS show first in a black TV and a black television show for that. People not going to vote for Charles because the garbage show on it. Right.

I'm very happy with my draft. Can we run maybe the name Cosby or something because motherfuckers going to see that graphic and be like, look. How about this? We won't put Bill on the graphic but we would put like for Lisa Bonnet on that bitch.

Right, right. Right. She for a different world. How about a perfect world prequel series? Not having funny in the draft, if you just redacted it all, there's no picture. No, not that people left. That one. Man, the show is what it is. I have somebody from Katzai on this list. How did that happen?

Manning, yeah, because we were talking about it. Oh, but it's two. Byracial girls from Cats. Oh, shit. I'm just going to put Cat's Eye chicks. What are you doing that? Why are you doing that now? Why now?

It's clearly a living list. Yeah, the list. You could have done that in like, wait, are you making it? Are you making it? Joe Jones and stuff. Put Marseille Martin and stuff. Put, what's the, what's the girl the pretty lady that's on the Reggie Dinkin show? No, I'm not watching. Put Zoli Griggs and stuff. Put them in stuff. But Jessica Williams and stuff, she didn't, she ain't tricking right now.

But all these people put them in stuff. Like, it's like, you know, these, and a lot of these English as well, like, what's, but. What? I apologize because we all black. Oh, I have an interesting conundrum for you. We were talking about. yesterday. Okay. Okay. Ready for this. Can you have two black parents and also be biracial? Oh my God. Culturally you can.

Oh. Culturally you can. Charles's genius. He got it right off the top. Now, what I will say, I have two black parents, okay? Two black. My dad, light skin, my mom was a beautiful dark skin sister. Now, if I was up here saying, yo, I'm the hottest on a mic with a white mother. Be be like,

That's culturally. Why you bring it back to J. Cole? Everything comes back. It all comes back. It all comes back. No, no,

or, or, you know, light skins have a tendency to make their light skinness their whole personality culturally biracial. You know what I mean?

Actually, what we figured out is kind of the opposite. Okay. But because Zoe Kravitz has two black parents, but she's biracial. Because she's,

Because she tends to date white men? No. Her parents are black, but her parents are both half white. So she is definitely biracial, but she has two black parents, because her parents are black. Her parents, it's like, so if you use the term black, this is really about the interchangeability

of the term black and biracial. Her parents are black. Lean Kravitz is black. Lizzie Bonae is black. But they're both biracial, two black people that are black and biracial. But she's not biracial. Who? Zoe Kravitz?

Yes, she is. Because she has two biracial parents, which means that she's... No, no, no, no, no. She has two black parents. She has two black parents. First of all, biracial people are black.

They are black, black. But they're also biracial. They're also biracial. It's biracial. She's got two black parents. And this was the crux of the argument. This is, I call this Zoe Kravitz paradox.

Zoe. Ooh. Ooh. Zoe Craven's paradox. Ooh. Two black parents, but the parents are half white,

okay? And one is the cousin of Al Roker. Legends all around everybody, all these people are legends. Then she becomes a legend, but she's biracial because she's effectively half white. But then on top of that,

two blacks make a biracial. Wow. If black guys, If Zoe Kravitz, we did not know that she was a celebrity. We knew nothing about her dating. Nothing. She just walked through that door. We would be like,

black woman, not biracial. Do you understand that that's how I feel about everyone? That's how I feel about all of you? That and that's the difference. You understand? I don't believe in it. It's a specifically. Do you understand that's how I feel about all of them?

I look at it like you black. Then you come and you go, I'm biracial and I go, oh, I respect you. That's all I'll call you that. But you're a nigger to me is what you are. Okay, you're black. But all right, so I'll say this. I'll say this at a certain point.

We're all black together. I'll at a certain point. Tiger Woods culturally biracial. Well, because we accepted him as, yo, you are black, whatever. And he was like, hey, look, culturally. This is my thing. I said it on high learning. You're all black to me.

We're black. We're one big family, a different, whatever, whatever. We're all black. Important to note, yes. We're all, you're all. But if you have a history of being like, no, I'm not, you get. That's good. You want to tell me, I'm from, I'm for defining your shit.

If you tell me straight up right now, like people walk up to me, I was like, you start, like, when you were in LA, you started meeting people and you'd be talking to, you know, some brother or something like that. And he goes, yeah, you know, my mom is, my mom is, my mom is from Detroit. And, you know, my dad is German. I'd be like, oh, fuck Germany, you got to do it, a nigga. Like, you're black, you're a black person. Yeah, but I'm German.

And like, I'm like, all right, bro. Like, what's up with the crowd then? I will say that is, that is a thing that I have noticed in the biracial conversation. Is there always, when someone is explaining, it's like, damn, yo, mama from Queens, but, yo, daddy from Switzerland, like, why, like, why are you guys? So I say this. It's always that. It's always that.

I'll say this, though. I'll say this. I think this is great. Of course you do. I'm from Louisiana. So I'm used to the Creos, you know, telling us that they're Creole. And then after they get kicked in the ass by the white people, we go, come over here and get something to eat. Fan.

Wait, so who's in the Zoe Kravitz paradox? What the Zoe Kravitz paradox is Lisa Bonnet, Lenny Kravitz, and Zoe Kravitz. It's a... Oh, it's just them. It's not like a... The Zoy Kravitz paradox is two black people who are biracial. Two black people making a biracial is a, is a... paradox. It's a paradox because of

the interchangeability. No, no, no, no. You say here's like, this is not how it would happen, this is not how it happened. But if you're saying that like 50% whiteness and then you have a kid makes a complete biracial, it's not how it works. It is. The math isn't mathing. What are you talking about? It is, though. It is. It is. This is, this is all post credits.

It is. It is. If you, hold on, if you are half white, If you are half black, half white, if you are half black, half white, and you mean another person that is half black, half white, and then you guys are together. That makes a whole biracial. And then you, the person is half white. But two black people had a black child.

They're culturally black and they had a biracial that's biracial. It's a, it's the Zoe Kravitz paradox. And Jomi, where did you land on this? He doesn't want to talk about it because he's afraid. Wait, no, what? Jomey. He's not wrong. It's the Zoe Kravitz's paradox.

He's not wrong. Two black people can, we thought that a biracial was always produced by a biracial. Biracial people, you guys. A biracial is crazy. We thought that that was produced by a black person and a white person in using the societal definition. But no, two black people can produce a biracial because they can also be biracial and produce a biracial because the person is half white. Now, let's think about it. Let me put on how, think about it.

Zoe Kravitz has, what, two black, two black, or two black, grandmother and grandfather, or grandmother and grandfather, that's black, and a grandmother and a grandfather, that's white. Right. But you guys, all right,

Zoe Kravitz was conceived with black love. Yeah. There was no swirl. Like, the swirl agenda leads to the biracial. Such a good point. The black love leads to a black child. That's what we needed you.

This is such a good point. This is such a good point. That doesn't matter. Because. I think the thing we came away with was like, genetically, yeah, but like that's like really like not the thing. It's really culturally. You know what I'm saying?

Are you black or biracial? Are you living in your blackness? Do you claim your blackness? Are you like, ah, you know, I'm black. What about logic? That's tough. He holds it down. He holds it down for his people.

He holds it down for his people. He does, man. Shout out to logic. Hey, shout out to, isn't his people us? Yeah. Hey, shout out to all of the, hey, happy Black History Month.

Shout out to all of the Black people. Shout out to the Black people. All of biratials. Who also have mixed race heritage. You're biracals. We respect you. We love you. White skins, we're going to be up.

Like skin. Shout out to black people, the entire diaspora. Everybody, man. Shout out to, shout out to. Shout out the UK. Because at the same time, I got bad news for y'all is the origin of this, this whole thing is y'all all Africans. We all Africans together, you know what I'm saying?

Original people. I don't know. Jomey, are we all Africans? We are absolutely all Africans. All of us. I'm from Louisiana. Okay, look. All right.

That's a wrap. This week on a regional first feed on Wednesday, the House of Arr is doing their House of the Dragon teaser die. So on Friday, Budmatch returns with Resident Evil Requiem. Their actions. The reactions to the game. Chuck's interested in that. Producers today are Jamie Ukitch, Ukitch.

I like that type of shit. Devin Baroldi, join me a dinner on on socials. Hashtag. I haven't written the hashtag. It was going to be Jomey Rhymes. Jomey Rhymes. Hachammy Rhymes. That's what it is.

Roshana. Shout out Shonda rhymes. Additional production from Arjuna Ramgapowl. Chuck, take us out. Hmm. Hmm. Is the Wire Black?

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