The Ringer-Verse - 'The Book of Boba Fett' "Chapter 1" Deep Dive | House of R

Episode Date: December 31, 2021

Mal and Joanna emerge from the Sarlacc Pit to dive into the latest Star Wars adventure, 'The Book of Boba Fett.' They first offer a primer on their thoughts on Boba Fett and the state of the wider Star Wars canon (06:23). Then they dive into the plot and events of the premiere and what may happen in the series (50:10). Finally, they call in Jomi to answer your mailbag questions (155:12). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Steve Ahlman, TD St. Matthew-Daniel, and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene. Who on the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best? But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify. For free, by the way.

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Jabba rarely left his chambers. Jabba ruled with fear. I intend to rule with respect. If I may. Speak freely. In difficult times, fear is a sure bet. And welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin.

And it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to Mos Espa, but also to join us here on the Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are here today, of course, to talk about the highly anticipated the book of Boba Fett premiere and joining me to do just that. Now that she's finished explaining that even when a Trondotion pays you a compliment, it sounds like a threat. It's my house of our working title. Co-host. My favorite aspiring crime lord. Ringer Senior Staff writer Joanna Robinson.

Oh my God. What a joy to be here with you, Star Wars Master Assassin, Mallory Rubin, on this podcast. Truly a thrill. I'm really excited. I'm really excited. It's Star Wars season. Star Wars is back. This is our first time really talking about Star Wars together at length.

We've had, you know, a burst here and there. certainly some text exchanges and side chats, but on the pod, this is our first real Star Wars journey, our first trip into the galaxy together. It's just so fun. A few programming reminders quickly before we fire up the jet pack for today's pod. The Midnight Boys Van and Charles. Poo-Pew! We'll be back next Wednesday with our instant reaction to the second chapter of the book of Boba-Fet. Joe and I will be back next Friday with our deep dive on the second chapter because it's a boba season here at the ringer. And we are going to be with you for the entire boba journey. We will, of course, be hitting some other stuff as well. Lots coming in January. But as you head

into the new year and you think and reflect on what's to come, just know we will be there with you on the sand dunes of Tatooine. And you can follow all of that, of course, by following the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and by following our social feeds. The ringer verse. That's the name of this podcast. The ringer verse is on Twitter. Instagram. Facebook.

We're everywhere. And of course, bear in mind our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. Today's podcast will feature plot details from the book of Boba Fett premiere, as well as discussions of all of Star Wars canon. We're talking OG Trilogy, The Clone Wars, Mando, might mention a Legends nugget or two, all of it. Bad Batch. Yes, bad batch, certainly.

Comics. Proceed with caution. Proceed with more caution than the Sarlac did when it swallowed a guy armed with a flamethrower, which, in hindsight, very tough. Very tough. Okay, Joe. We're here to talk. about the Boba premiere episode one, dubbed chapter one. We're sticking with the chapter labels,

just as inside of Mando. I love it. And this chapter is called Stranger in a strange land. It is, of course, a Bible reference. It is a sci-fi literary reference. It is a rich nugget just right there on the title card. This episode was directed by Robert Rariguez, written by the show creator, John Favreau. Run time. Tight 38 minutes. Talking like 33, 34-ish minutes of actual episode. And then those lovely concept art images from Mando back here in the end credit. It's delightful. Joe, what can you tell us about the score? Oh, so when we had done our preview episode, we had mistakenly said that our guy Ludwig Gorensen, who did an incredible job with Mandalorian, was back to do the full score of this episode or this show.

that is not the case. His protege, Joe Shirley actually did the score, but he did the theme that you'll hear in the opening, in the closing, and it sort of punctuates the episode as well as, like, Boba's sort of main theme. It's interesting, I don't have the name of it right in front of me, but I saw somewhere that it's, that the Boba theme that he used is a direct reference to a kind of famous Swedish, thing called, I think it's called Ronia's Robber's Daughter. And it's, I don't know, all the like the Hupping and the and the acapella sort of like choral work, that's like a direct reference to that. So it's like a real

Swedish traditional vibe, I guess, which is like, which is an interesting, I love this theme, actually. I'm big fan of it. So, incredible. The music is incredible. Also, you know, Swedish. Spotify again. Follow the

your first on Spotify. Joe, before we dive in to all of the things we're going to hit today, we're going to run through the two different timelines that we saw in this premiere, talk about all the plot developments, the character introductions, all of the mysteries, Easter eggs, theories, we're going to hit the mailbag questions, we're going to do it all. Broadly, how does you feel about the first episode in what will be a seven-chapter boba season journey here? So as I mentioned, I am so excited to be. I've been, like, marinating in the back to tank of Star Wars content since we last spoke, doing all the homework that Ben Lindbergh assigned us on our last podcast.

Watch the entirety of the bad batch, among another, a number of other things. And, you know, Star Wars is something that I've podcasted about, you podcast about, but this is the first time we're doing it together. And I'm so excited. I love, I love being back in the Star Wars world. That's like my overall, like, excitement level. The way I feel about this episode, it's not really a critique of the episode. It's more I wish there had been two episodes to kick us off here.

Or if this had been a longer episode. Because I feel like, especially when we're dealing with a split timeline, I felt like I didn't have enough time to get fully anchored in both. And so it let like I was doing a thing where I was, I watched it at midnight with a friend of mine who, is really into Star Wars, and I was like anxiously watching the time run out on the episode. And I'm like, it's going to be over. And like, so that's a compliment, right, to the show that it was over. And I was like, I want more of this immediately right now. So that, like, as an intro to the series, like, I'm so hopeful.

They, like, this team has no, like, I have no reason not to have full faith in them and what they're going to do. but as an episode itself isolated as television, I'm not sure this was like the strongest, strongest, strongest installment to kick us off. And I was trying to be like completely fair to it because like it doesn't, you don't need to have a freaking Baby Yoda in your premiere in order to like get me excited about your Star Wars show.

So I'm not setting the bar there. But I rewatch the Mando premiere after I watched this episode to sort of see what's in it before we even get to Baby Yoda, right? And it's like, you know, there's so much good stuff in there before we even get to the baby. You know, it's packed with new characters, guest stars, all this sort of stuff. And also it's like we were so excited to be in this new world. You know, we were like, Star Wars TV can't they even do it? We had all these questions about it.

So there's fair and unfair comparisons you can make to the Mandalorian. But that's sort of where I was coming out of this episode. Because like the major challenge Boba has is, is this a character that can hold down a series? And I would, my feeling right now is I'm certainly super hopeful that that's true. I'm certainly optimistic that's true. I would say TBD based off of this, of what we've seen so far. Again, I just wanted more. How about you, Mo?

I hate, boy, I had a great time. Yeah. No, I mean, I had a great time. I agree with you. Yeah. I will echo what you said and what I already said, just to say it again, because I feel it so keenly in my heart, my soul. Just enjoy to hop on the speeder, buzz through the content with you, you know?

Getting to share a Star Wars story, Star Wars journey. I love Star Wars. I'm so excited. We're back. I have the same feeling as you just like, rewerewerew. watching things to prep, just falling back into the world. It just makes me happy. I know that's not super elevated analysis, but it is how I feel about it.

And so there's that as like the overarching sensation, right? Just excitement to be back in the world, period. For the Boba Fett premiere specifically, I really enjoyed it and had a lot of fun. liked it a lot. I thought it was a really strong premiere. I did have an element of exactly what you're describing when it ended, which was, oh, I thought we might get thing X, like just one more thing of consequence. And I think that in hindsight, I am kicking myself a little bit for anticipating that because I think it informed a little bit of how I watched the first episode. And, you know, to take people behind the curtain, like some of that, honestly, it's just because we didn't get screeners for

this. And I assumed that that meant there had to be some massive reveal or massive occurrence in the pilot in the first episode that the Star Wars team and that Disney like didn't want to risk getting out in advance. Now, I think that as you said, the Grogu Bar is basically an impossible one to clear. Like, it's not a reasonable expectation for this show or any other show that Anything could happen, not just that would animate the collective excitement so much, but that would become like an all-time historic pop culture phenomenon. That's not a reasonable thing to expect. But I was like, all right, no screeners.

What might we get? And so that was a little bit present in my mind on first viewing. After that, though, revisiting the episode, watching it, just assessing it on its own merits without that expectation, hanging over the experience. Had a great time. I'm really excited to talk to you about not only the episode, but to pan back for a minute,

like the character and the origin of Boba and Boba's role and stature in Star Wars fandom and Star Wars lore and how that informs our expectations heading into the episode as well and into the show as well. And I think that the like unbridled success of the Mandalorian, which of course enter the world, with a lot of, is this supposed to be about Boba Fed? Is Boba Fed going to show up? Hey, is Boba Fed in

the shadows and the covert? Hey, were those Boba Spurs that we heard in the Gunslinger episode? Turns out they were in that last case, right? The thing that was in Boba, Boba Shadow initially has become a sensation, has become beloved. Like, Mando, we were, we were exchanging just our kind of personal power rankings of favorite Star Wars properties. And, you know, Mando is this, like, jewel, this little jewel two seasons in, a jewel of a show. And even when the Stinger for Boba came onto our screens in the season two, Mando finale, and we're all like, oh, okay, interesting. And we'll talk about this a little more later. There were a lot of questions of, is this a standalone series? Is this the next installment of the Mandalorian, which will prove to be an anthology about various helmet

wearers and those questions were quickly answered. But I think that the legacy of the characters in the shows and how they're entwined is a really interesting thing to parse in terms of how we feel about the debut of the show and how long it will take to kind of stake out its own legacy, which is fascinating because the legacy of Boba and that helmet is one of the most unflinching things in Star Wars and in pop culture. So those are some of my broad thoughts. Just specifically, I loved the dual timeline. I'm really curious to see how long they maintain that. I think it's a smart way, though inside of this tight, compact premiere, it doesn't give us as much time in either places we might want to feel fully oriented. I think it's a smart way to ultimately fill in

some of the gaps. And I love the performances. I love Fenwick as a character. I think that the Fenwick-Boba dynamic duo vibes are really great. I have some complex tattooing thoughts that we can dive into later. I'll save those. But overall, a real treat. And energy and a vibe that I really enjoyed, a pace that I loved. I'm sad already that we only have six episodes left. Classic. Classic me. I'm already thinking about the end. We literally just started. But I think that's a good sign because shows that it's got its, you know, it's got its grappling hooks in me already, Joe. My question for you, and I love, I love how much you love things. It makes me so happy. It's like my favorite thing about you. This is a

question I didn't prepare you for, and it's a big one. But like, what does Star Wars need to be to feel like Star Wars to you? Because it's so interesting because my hope for the... Here's what I'll say. My hope for the broader Star Wars, like, direction forward of Lucas Film and stuff like that, is that Star Wars can be so expansive. That can be anything it wants to be, that if they want to do this gangster sort of crime lord show,

which may or may not be the exact thrust of this season, we don't know. There's so much we don't know. I don't know anything. about this season of television, right? So, like, there's so much we don't know. I would love for Star Wars to be a thing that contain, can contain so many different flavors in the pack that we can do a Rogue One More movie, that we can do a gunsling or a show like Mandalorian, that we can do a crime boss show with Boba. That's what I would love. And what I really want Star Wars to be, this is really important to me as, you know, like, whenever you hear any single person talk about

Star Wars, especially like the 40, 50-year-old men who are making it now, they're always like, they always want to give their Star Wars bona fides. Well, I grew up with Star Wars, so just so you know it's special to me. And it's like, but what I love and want Star Wars to be is like special to everyone, you know what I mean? And special to the generation that came to it with Clone Wars and special to the generation that came to it with Force Awakens and special to the generation that comes to it with the Mandalorian. You know what I mean? Like I want, wherever Star Wars is meeting audiences, I want it to feel like a big warm hug. And like, that's what I loved about the Mandalorian because what Baby Yoda accomplished as a meme.

Like, there's so many ways in which Star Wars has hooked viewers in, be it animated or live action or whatever. But the fact that a meme hooked so many people that I know that don't care about Star Wars into the Mandalorian. You know what you mean? And I want those people in the... pool with us. I want everyone to be excited about it. And so having talked to a bunch of people, both devoted longtime Star Wars fans and like casual watchers, that's not what this episode did for them. That's where I get sort of, when I get nitpicky, it's more like, I just want everyone to be as enthused as we are about this show. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I agree that I want

Star Wars to be vast and sprawling. You know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I remember like feeling such a spark of excitement and possibility with Brunboy and Last Jedi because of the idea that the force can find so many different people and so many different nooks and corners of galactic life. I, some of my favorite stories, like rebels is a good example of this, are just left of something that is considered like central core. mainstream IP and Canon, you know? So those few years that we spend with Ezra and Sabine and Herah and Kain and Chop and the whole crew take us to this point that we know as well as we know anything in Star Wars, but it fills in the canvas, not just with details and timeline information, right? but with people, with people who are living lives and experiencing their own journeys and building their own relationships.

And so as attached as I am to Luke and Anakin and the core Skywalker saga, I do find that there are moments where I'm like many Star Wars fans, I think, lamenting the fact that so many things have to connect or tie back to those characters, right, into that aspect of the canon. I like to broaden and to go wider. I like to do that not only with different characters, but with different vibes and different energies. Like I, you know, the Midnight Boys discussed whether we need Jedi in our Star Wars story. And I think it's like an interesting and related conversation prompt. And, you know, I love force users. I was going to say I love the Jedi. love the Jedi, though. The Jedi Order specifically. I have a lot of notes for how they conduct

business. A lot of notes from the mistakes that thing made. Yoda, I'm looking at you. You want to reform the, reform the Jedi Order. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. But of course, like, the, the hearing a lightsaber activate is one of the great thrills that any of us can experience. And I would be delighted to talk about the gathering on Illam and searching for a Khyber crystal for as long as anybody will let me. I love all of that. But, but, I also love Star Wars stories that have nothing to do with that at all, because to me, that makes the galaxy feel real, and it makes it feel full. I will say, though, in terms of, like, Boba, years ago, when the Boba rumors of, you know,

reports of the Boba film in development, and then that falling off the table, and then these murmurs heading into Mandalorian of whether there would be a Boba element or connection, I was sort of like, do we need, and I know this is sacrilege to some, do we need, like, a Boba Fett story. And so I have been reflecting on how I got in a fairly short span of time from that bit of personal reflection to like building Boba Fett Lego helmets in my home and just wanting to watch this episode 60 times in a row until the next episode drops and just having that be my life and knowing that that would be a content life that I enjoyed. Right. And I will say that to me that answer is like, is Dave Faloni. And I think.

that this connects to the question that you're asking and that dynamic that you're assessing here because again I agree I do think though that one of Dave Filoni's unbelievable skills and abilities is to fill in the gaps in the existing story to fully realize and flesh out something that was just an idea and I think you know this we can transition from here into like looking at our our history with with boba the character and star wars history with boba the character and the creation i want to quickly yes and before we do that uh seemed to me like you were throwing support behind steve who got dogged on the minnie voice for his opinions and i'm with you i texted steve after that episode and i was like your opinions are good

and valid so like i i also love a lightsaber i love force user i love all of that i think star should be able to contain stories also and has without a lightsaber and without a force user. Totally. So do I want entirely new characters and entirely new Star Wars stories? I do. Genuinely and like powerfully. But do I trust Faloni and Favs and this creative hive mind to give us a really, really excellent high level boba story that feels immersive and like it has a real reason to exist? I do. Because not only have I loved the bulk of what he's made, but in particular, way that he ties together aspects of canon. Lindberg and I talked about this for a while in the Bad Bad Bad Patch pods we did.

I think there's a version of the canon connections in Bad Bad Batch. And we said at the top, spoilers for everything, but I'll just a quick, quick context-specific bad-batch spoiler here. Like, I think there's a version of Bad Batch where you see Young Canaan or you see Cad Bain or you see Rex or any of these other number of connections from other Star Wars stories and think, boy, do we need all this? can't we just get something new? I thought, I fucking loved that.

I was literally crying on my couch when I saw, when I saw Young Canaan when I saw, I was like, that's Caleb. Holy shit, that's Young Canaan. Like, this is a moment that means so much in setting up everything we get with rebels. And Faloni can execute that with just pinpoint precision and crucially, I think, with heart and with an understanding of why those characters mean something to fans in the first place. And so that is my great hope for Boba, that interrogating that idea, like, why is this character interesting to people in the first place?

Why is this a story that should exist? The people who are making the show, I believe that they will come up with the right answer to that question. Can I talk about my favorite part of the Boba legacy, which is... Is it merch? It is merch. Hell yeah. Merch! I think what's so wild and interesting, and plenty of people know this.

And, you know, like, you, if you watch the Under the Hover, the Humberland. helmet mini-doc that they have on Disney Plus is like 20 minutes long, or if you've read an article about Boba Fett, you know this that like the fervor around Boba Fett, who has so little dialogue and so little screen time in the original trilogy, has as much to do with anticipation, this kind of anticipation that we swim in all the time here in the ringer verse and fandom based on an action figure that was released, right? An action figure, Mel's showing me her Boba Lego helmet with a, with a, the visor that comes down.

That, um, that, that, the, the toyetic nature of, of Boba is so interesting. And I think it's interesting for that larger,

the place that Star Wars has in the hearts and minds of so many people including as again, the 40, 50 year old dudes and women, certainly, but it's mostly dudes who get to do it right now making Star Wars is, um,

whenever you hear them talk about it. And this is true of like Kevin Feige, too, but Favro says it, Faloni says it. My old colleague Anthony Bresdenz would say this all the time, they would talk about playing with the action figures in their backyard. That was like such a big point of like

their love of Star Wars. And what we don't understand now in our like merch-drenched universe is that like the way in which the toy company Kenner licensed these action figures out of Star Wars was so new. You know, like G.I. Joe

existed and Barbie existed and stuff like that. This idea of a toy based on the movie you just saw was super new with Star Wars. And Kenner just completely exploded the market with these Star Wars action figures. And what it meant, it reminds me of the conversations we have around like fan fiction, and the way much fan fiction changed the way fans think about their ownership of a story. I think if you could go home with your like Luke and Lan, Han, Han, and R2 and whatever figures, and make your own Star Wars stories in your backyard that fundamentally change. changes your relationship with a story.

And it makes it burrow deeper inside of you than whatever else was going on at the time in film and television. And that Boba is like the prime example of that of the action figure Star Wars legacy makes him such an important. He's like he's emblematic of the entire thing because people created their whole worlds of stories around Bubba Fed. before finding out that he was a random, kind of random background bounty hunter character. And it's beautiful. I love that about him. Phenomenal point,

not only in terms of Boba, but one of the many ways in which the legacy of Star Wars has manifested across not only the Star Wars fandom, but culture at large. I love merch, as you know. I love it. Whether it's in under the helmet, which everyone you should check out,

it's on Disney Plus if you haven't seen it yet, it's fascinating. Can I, okay. Can I just have my own, like, JJ Abrams, Fabro Filoni? This is my personal connection to Star Wars thing, which is I grew up in the Bay Area, Ann Marin County, which is where... Are you going to talk about the parade? Yeah, the San Encelmo.

That's where I went to high school. There's, like, footage of Bobafet walking through 1970s San Enselmo. Like, my sister could have been in... I wasn't born yet, but my sister could have been in that parade. Like, that's right where I went to high school. So, like, that's just... It's just like, it's, you know, and like, We grew up in those redwoods that remind you of Endor and stuff like that.

Like, it's just, like, sort of caked into growing up around in the Bay Area in a way. And it doesn't make, it doesn't make us, like, better Star Wars fans or gatekeepers or anything like that. But it's just like, that's a part of my experience with Star Wars is that it's like, you grew up swimming in it. You know what I mean? Sorry, you were saying. Growing up around Redwood sounds really, really beautiful. No Redwoods back in Baltimore. But when they re-released the original trilogy, my dad did take me to the theater to see them.

And that was when I started watching Star Wars. A very special memory of mine. I love that. I'm glad you mentioned the Marin County Parade because that coupled with the toy insights, the merch history there. It's like this idea that Boba was just so cool, looked so cool. And, you know, the origin of the character obviously, like first actually debuted in the infamous. Maligned. A holiday special.

And then hit the live action, of course, for Empire Strikes Back and then, you know, returns for Return of the Jedi and the Sarlac Pit moment of doom there. There's not a lot of Boba in the original trilogy. We were talking mere minutes of total screen time and just a few lines of dialogue. And so whether it was Boba strolling next to Vader in costume, at that parade. And again, you can see the visuals of this in the under the helmet dock. It's really cool to see the way

that the crowd responded and the kids are just rushing over to stand next to the armor for photos. This instant indelible sense of menace and awe. And I'm really fascinated in this dissonance inside of Boba's arc across the decades in Star Wars. like one of the moments that just killed me watching Under the Helmet Dock.

Joe Johnston, fascinating insights, amazing to hear from him along with Ralph McQuarray, like designed Boba. And one of the things that he says in the dock is this. I think what made Boba Fett really popular was that he was a mystery. Exactly. Like Darth Vader, the helmet was his face. I liked that we didn't give him any backstory when he showed up. He was just one of the bounty hunters.

This next line is iconic. George never worried about stuff like that. He never felt like he had to give you a big backstory. Well, I loved that that line, okay, Joe Johnston, icon, of course. Amazing. After America First Avenger director, Rocketeer director, Joe Johnston. Like, the fact that they kept that line in for a doc that's meant to sort of hype their show where they are going to give us, like, uncover the mystery of BobaFet is wild and

fascinating and wonderful. Exactly. It is this incredible, like, contradiction inside of where we are, where the allure and the appeal for so long was that we didn't know much about this character and now to devote an entire show to the character is such an interesting choice. Like, I'm curious, does that in any way complicate or diminish your excitement? Or are we at a point? And, of course, we should say, like, we learn a lot more about Bowbush.

over the years after the original trilogy. There's a lot of Boba in Legends canon, which of course is not current Disney canon, but that was there for fans over the years to spend more time with the character, learn how he got out of the Sarlac Pit, etc. Boba has a few appearances in the Clone Wars. We get to spend time with a young asshole

who is trying to kill Mace Windu, get revenge for Django's death. We see him with Basque over the years in Clone Wars. We see him heading into this bounty hunter existence. And of course, we get to meet Younger Boba before that in episode two, and Attack of the Clones when we're with Django, when we're with Young Boba on Camino. And we fill in pieces of Boba's history across the year.

So it's not like this is the first moment where we're getting to learn more. But this is the answer to, again, outside of Legends canon, like the questions that have hung over the Boba legacy for so long, could he get out? Did he get out? Now, if you're deep in Legends Canon, you know the answer. But what would the answer be in Disney Canon? What would it mean if he came back? How would they explain it? And then what role would he play? And to your question earlier about that, like, can he carry a show and be the leading man and the primary driver? Is that even what we want? from a character who worked his way into the consciousness, specifically because we didn't know those things or see him that way. Is that a balancing act that worries you at all? Or do you feel like we just are in this moment of Star Wars expansion and spinoffs? And everything will be fine. I'm not sitting here right now if you worried about it.

It was something I was thinking about a lot leading up to this, like ever since they announced it. But again, like this team has done so much to earn my. I trust that, like, I believe, like you said, like I think, you know, they are aware of all of this. And they know, like, even now when they talk about Mando, you know, a big question, when Mandalorian premiered and like my old colleague Anthony Bresden and I had seen the first three episodes because they did send a screener for those. And we went to interview the cast and crew, like, the question we asked every single person was like, so he's like never going to take his helmet off? And that seems like a bad idea because how will we get to know the character and the performance and all this sort of stuff if we don't ever get to see his face?

And something that the people worked on that show talked about is like because the mask is the face, much like with Boba Fett, right? Then you get to project all this stuff onto Mando as you're watching the Mandalorian. So they're very aware of that as a powerful storytelling tool. And they're like, but now we want to go under the helmet and talk to you about this. Did you, okay, stretch your mind back to the time in the Star Wars fandom when a lot of people were mad about the prequels, right? And it was like, it was everywhere. Like, there's a great spaced bit about it where Simon Pegg is talking about Judge Erbanks. But there's a great Pat and Oswald bit.

Do you know this Pat and Oswald bit where he's talking about the prequels and how Maddie is about them? Well, hey, don't worry, because guess who shows up in the second movie, Boba Fett? There you fucking Boba Fett. Yes! With the helmet and he's a bounty hunter, that is awesome, man. That is so cool. Yeah, and in the second movie, you get to see him as a little kid. Again, I don't really care about him when he was a little kid. I like the chip and the helmet and the killing people. Is he like it? Does he have the little helmet on and he's killing people? Is that what's going on? No, he's like this little kid and then his dad dies and he's very sad. Do not give a shit at all about that.

Could not care less. So, like, just talking about how the prequels take all the, like, badass stuff that Patton loved about Star Wars and, like, made little kids. But something I love about, and I've got my issues with the prequels, but something I love about the Django Boba stuff in the prequels is George Lucas looping Django and Boba into this saga, cycle saga, about, you know, fathers and sons or parents and children if you want to make his. less masculine and putting...

Or yourself and your clone. Yeah, like, and putting... Well, putting Boba in the, like... In a Luke position, you know, like, you know, and forcing us to think about him as, you know, a kid who underwent trauma, and that shot, the shot that's used in the, like, partially re-rereated in the opening of this episode

of Little Boba with the, with Django's helmet. That's a beautiful moment. And an attack of the clones, a pretty bad movie. But that is like a beautiful, beautiful moments. And so, yeah. And so like sand. It's rough.

It's everywhere. Oh my God. Everything Anakin says. I have a lot of questions. I want to notes, as you would say. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. Are you worried about going under the helmet for Boba? I'm not.

I'm excited about it because of exactly what you just said. Like, I think that the, newer versions of Star Wars can be so fulfilling because they help us better understand why we were drawn to a character in the first place. So if we go back to season two of the Mandalorian, when we glimpse Boba's Sarlac-Pit-Scarred visage at the end of the, what we obviously refer to as the Timmy episode, but many people probably refer to as the Gob Van Thor Great Dragon episode. it is just a surge of this lightning bolt of anticipation

that we were going to get to learn more at last. And then when we see Boba across the final few episodes of Mando fighting with the seeming at the time Tuscan Gaffy stick, and now from what we see in this episode, it's like, okay, that's yes, because Boba spent time with the Tuscan Raiders and we're going to learn how that exists. how he got to that exact point.

And then to see this like arrangement, this deal that he strikes with Mando, you return the armor, will help you with the child, to see that he in Phenic, who we should talk about as well, obviously, are in league with each other

after Boba has saved Fennick. And we get that amazing line about, but sometimes fate steps in to rescue the wretched. That's what, that's what Boba says to Dinn in Mando about himself. end about Phenic. And I love that as like a tone-setting element for what this series will explore. And so the helmet is amazing. Like, it's literally one of the most iconic things in the world.

And it's cool. And it's interesting. And I do love what you said earlier about, you know, sparking that imagination and the ability to like plug yourself into the world and play with your toys and be a part of the universe in this more tangible, like, visceral way. Ultimately, the thing that's going to be most fulfilling about the helmet is better understanding the inner workings and life of the person beneath it. And so I don't think that one detracts from the other. I think ultimately, Star Wars at its best gives us both. And so I remain very hyped. Fennick has a helmet as well, Joe. What's your relationship to Fennick heading into this show? Okay, first of all, Fenink is one of my favorite designs on a Star Wars character ever. I think it's an incredible

costume. Oriole colors, Baltimore Oriole colors. Yeah, the black and the orange. I love it. The braid, the helmet, all great. The helmet, of course, is super functional because it means you can put whatever stunt dubs you want in for Mingna Wen, and we don't have to like, you know. Except no Star Wars helmets are actually functional in terms of allowing the people wearing them to see as they engage in battle. From a filmmaking point of view. She just slaps the orange helmet on.

From a certain point of view, as a guy Obe would say. Yeah. I would. So, no, I love Fenning Shan. I mean, I'm a huge McNamone fan, and it was, she did interview, I think, with Entertainment Weekly, where they're pointing out that she's got, she's unique in having the Disney Triple Crown, because plenty of people have been in like Marvel and Star Wars. There's a lot of cross-pollination there. And plenty of people have been in like Disney Marvel and

Star Wars, but she's like a Disney Princess, if you count Milan, which I will. Disney Princess, Agents of Shield, shout out to Jamie, you know, legend. And, and, and a, a new Star Wars icon. Like, we can not win. What an amazing, incredible. I love Fennex, big, big fan. And so excited that she's co-billing on this. And like the

Boba T's was so interesting because, well, we can either talk about this here or later, maybe here, but like the big hole in the middle of the show right now, I'm not mad about it. I just think it's interesting, is that we don't know why these characters are doing

what they do. We can make pretty easy assumptions. Like maybe they just, you know, want money or want to like start a new life for themselves or whatever it is. But they walk into Java's Palace at the end of Mando season two take over the throne.

And it's badass teas are very cool. We're very excited. But we're like... RIP Bifortuna. But why? No, rest of pieces, but like... But why? Like, what does everyone want from this?

And like, I think they're intentionally keeping some of Bova's intentions mysterious. And they can do that because of everything we just outlined, right? It's true. How much we have to learn about what drives him. It's true. But with Mando, it was so clear, right? You know, his mission right from the very end of episode one is protect this baby.

And that's it. That's the clear, you know, he shoots the droid and he's protect the baby and that's it. You know, and he has other things he does along the way, but mostly, is just protect this baby. That's my job. You are as its father. You are a clan of two. For Boba and Fennick, it's like takeover Tatooine

or is Tamir Mora Mores and like say Tatween. You know, is that I'm just, I'm so curious to know. And it's so interesting to have a show where we don't know the central drivers of our two main characters. I don't know. What are your Fenwick thoughts, feelings, and hype levels? I love Fennick, loved what we got to see in Mando. I think I, like everybody else, was dismayed when it seemed that Fennick had died midway through season one.

And I was delighted to see Fennick and those mechanical innards return alongside Boba in season two. I think this idea of the bounty hunter, the master assassin, the mercenary, the ties that we know Fennick has to the crime syndicates. Like the very first thing we learn about Fennick is when Mando and Toro, Toro is trying to recruit Mando to help with the bounty pursuit. And, you know, Mando has that like quick bit of, of bio download for us. Fennick Shand is an elite mercenary. She made her name killing for all the top crime syndicates, including the huts. If you go after her, you won't make it past sunrise. So we know, and I think we're going to be talking a lot over the course of this season about crime syndicates and the role of like the underworld and the crime layers across not only Tatouine, but Star Wars. storytelling. Fenwick has deep and embedded history. And of course, we know of Boba's history with Java and, you know, other bounty hunters like Basque, et cetera. So I'm interested in Fenwick from the jump just because of the debut in Mando, the premise, and then the return in Mando. Then you go back to, back in the canon timeline, fast forward in our real life consumption timeline. Ah, Star Wars. When are we? Who knows?

We get these amazing little bursts of Fennick in the Bad Batch, which is way earlier in the timeline, 28 years earlier in the timeline. And on the one hand, yes, Fennick is working as a bounty hunter, right? Is pursuing Omega. I think we'll probably mention Omega a few times today, but we should note, again, for people who haven't seen the Big Bat, the Bad Batch, the Bad Batch, one of the huge reveals in that show is that Boba is in fact not the only unaltered Django clone. Omega is Django's clone as well.

Does Boba know about Omega? There is another. Amazing. I love it. Fenick pursues Omega across the bad batch has direct. connection history to Boba's sister. Is this something she has told Boba? Has this come up?

Will this reveal itself in this show? Will Omega be in the show? I would be surprised about that just because that would kind of spoil in some ways the outcome of the bad batch where Omega's fate is like one of the propulsive forces right now, though certainly not the only one. But does Boba know about this connection that he and Fenne share? And then you look at something like, so I like, I like, I'm a big, big, big,

Cadbane head. You know this about me. I do know this about you. One of my favorite fights that Jason and I ever had on Bidemad Star Wars was whether Boba or Cadbane was a better bounty hunter. The answer is Cadbane. And I hold him in quite high esteem. And Fennick annihilates him in the bad batch.

Just completely dusts him. And it's one of those things that really cements. even though we already know what a complete and total badass she is. So there are a lot of, even though we haven't got in a lot of time with Fennick, there are a lot of really exciting ingredients in addition to, as you already noted, the performance, just a delight. I cannot wait to learn more about what is driving both Fennick and Boba, what the parallels and connections are in their motivations and where those might diverge,

which seems reasonable to expect and probable. For so long, Boba was driven by this thirst for revenge. You know, his Clone Wars arcs in particular are about seeking revenge against Mace, against the Jedi for what happened to his father. But even then, one of the reasons I really liked getting to see him in Clone Wars is even then he's at war with himself. He doesn't want to take the hostages. He doesn't want to hurt people who don't need to be hurt.

And that doesn't mean he doesn't do bad things, right? He does. But he doesn't want. pure viciousness to guide him. And I think that that's a compelling. What is our evidence that Boba Fett is tremendously good at his job as a bounty hunter?

We see Boba get dunked up a lot. Because he's a jump in the original trilogy. But secondly, I think it's so interesting because, you know, it really does change your understanding of who that. character is in the original trilogy to watch the Clone Wars or to watch the prequel trilogy. And, you know, for some people, they weren't stoked about that. They liked their ice cold bounty

hunter, killer, you know, disintegrating kind of guy. Not a whiny teen who's acting as a prison lackey for Cad Bain to help. But I like, you know, you and I think prefer undercover everyone. and they'll like prefer the the shading and the like you know and the and the conflict um what i and what i'm anticipating is that a lot of who boba is now because i love boba as he appeared in the mandolian and i think um a lot of what we'll learn is like how his time with the tuscan raiders the last five years if that's indeed where he was this whole time um changed who he was or or educated him in a new way or something like that. And I guess what I would prefer to have seen in this episode, we're going to

get into the details. What I prefer to see this episode is a demonstrable difference between Boba who crawled out of the Sarlak and the boba that we're seeing now because I want to feel that change of his time with the Tuscan Raiders. Do you know what I mean? And he's, is there any like Loki coming right out of the 2012 Battle New York element to you in that respect here where again, in terms of the Star Wars timeline, which can sometimes be difficult to totally track as we watch, in part because just of how the things look as we watch them,

because when they were made versus where they're set in the canon, the Boba, who comes out of the Sarlac Pit in this episode, that is immediately after the events of Return of the Jedi, immediately after. Mando and Boba are set nine, broadly nine ABY, so five years, as you noted, after Battle of Endor, after the events of Return of the Jedi. So the boba who comes out of the pit,

the boba in the present day timeline has had five years to think, to reflect, to mature, to grow. The boba who comes out of the pit, to your point, though, was just aiming a blaster at fucking Luke Skywalker out in the bits of carcoon. Like, we're talking no passage of time, however long it took him to wake up inside of the Sarlock innards. So is that a thing?

I'm willing to acknowledge that maybe, you know, sitting in a sarlac tummy might change a band. Accelerates things. Yeah. My, my, that, that experience of near death and such a, and what a near death might, might, dramatically alter a person's personality. But I don't know. I'm, I, I like to. How would you do inside of a sarlac pit?

What would I do? How would you think you'd fare? Like, would you wake up and say, I'm, this is it. That's a wrap for me? Or would you try to get out? No, I die immediately. No. You wouldn't try to pull a bobar, pull like, you know, the whale in the boys, just explode it from within.

I don't travel. That was very upsetting. With, like, flame throwers on my person. If I did, maybe I would try that. But, yeah. You're resourceful, though. I think you'd get out of there. For me, I would just be so deflated.

I would just sink into my despair. One of my favorite things, but to slowly digest me over a thousand years. One of my favorite things about watching the Fast and Furious franchise is just sitting there going like, oh, that's when I would die. Oh, I would die there. I would do like any... You must say that a lot over the course of those movies. Any given stunt, I'm just like, oh, well, that's where I would just, I would just give up and die. You know what I mean? For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusion through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit Tramphiatoradio.com. He wants you to pay him. I'm the crime lord he's supposed to pay me. Shall I kill him? He works for the mayor. Does that a know? That's a now. Should we get into like, you know, the details of this episode.

Let's do it. So the two timelines as noted, we're going to hit the present day timeline first and then we'll go back to the Back to Dream flashback sequences. But let's start in the present day. Crime Lord Fet timeline. And then we're going to run through what we learn in the Bacta dreams in the past. Where should we begin in the present day? Throne Room, want to talk a little 8D8, Matt Barry.

This is a Ringer podcast network project, and so I do feel compelled to clarify that we are talking about actor and comedian, Matt Barry, of what we do in the shadows fame, not fantasy football analyst, Matt Barry. And MCU cameo maker, Matt Barry. I mean, one of the joys of watching Mando, and this is true, this one is like the credits pop up and there are names where you're like, yeah, oh, I recognize that Jennifer Beals is in this. But then you're like, Matt Barry, what, what critter or droid was because I did not recognize his voice the first time through? And so, um, Circle is complete stuff, though. You know, we had Mark Hamill in shadows. And my favorite, my favorite version of that is John Liguizamo, because Likwizamo was doing such a voice of this character that when the credits for season two episode one, Amanda enrolled, and you're like, John Ligizamo was in this.

Anyway, Matt Barry, 88, I want to say quickly before we get to 88 is, uh, I'm going to talk about torture for a minute? There's a little dressing montage when he gets out of the Bacta tank. And it's very Theodon, where's the horse, where's the rider? Theodon King. I actually did write Theodin King in my notes. I always say Theodin King. I can't not say Feudian King.

Same. But it's a very, you know, I love a, I love a like arming your Lord montage from something medieval and the fact that it's droids is just like incredible watching him get into the armor. And I just want to shout out, as cool as the Bobafet armor is, I love the robe under the boba armor. I love a man in a skirt and he just looks incredible with the robe plus the armor. That was a wonderful sequence. It was important to have it here, like on the one hand, we have already gotten the thrill of, we get to see Boba donned his armor again.

We got that in Mando. We even got to see the freshly repainted donning of the armor in Mando. But still, you need that here in the first episode of this show. You have to have it. And it was fucking dope. I felt like I was like running out of the tunnel. Time for the big game. I think I'm thinking about football because before we started,

I said 8D8 doesn't really like roll off the tongue. And you said 88. And then I started saying that it made it seem like he was a wide receiver in the NFL with the jersey number 88. And now here we are. The character of Doc Strassie, which, like, the name. So, so, so, yeah, voice by Robert Rodriguez. Voice by Robert Rodriguez, but the name sounds so godfather to me.

And there is, like, a lot of godfather stuff that they're going to want to be, like, dealing with in this series, this idea of, like, the men I boys talked about it. like sort of like what is what what does don collione do when he's like trying to get one up on other other crime lords other people having power so doc strassie i don't know sound very don't strassie to me uh and all like that my here's my note for doc strassie okay and for anyone else in star wars yeah don't come here with a wookie pelt frankly how dare you whoo mallory's got you on her short list. Get out of the throne room, get out of the palace, and get off of my screen. Now, I did like

the history that's alluded to when Boba says, that's weird. I used to work for him. And we learn from 88. Doc Straussie is the leader of the Trindotion family, protectors of the city center and its business territory. So this would be a recurring character, presumably. And I love the Boba line about how he used to work from for a few reasons. What will we learn about Doc Stracy and this Tradition family in the crime syndicate world specifically, but again, the long-running Boba Basque connection. I mean, this is like one of the real throughlines, actually, of the Star Wars timeline. Okay.

But get the wiki pelt out of here. Since you're willing to cancel Strassie for the wiki pelt, here's my question. How do you feel about the fact that boba wore wiki braids? It's not great. Not great. Not great. It's not great. It's not great, Joe.

Which was your favorite tribute sequence? We had a few in a row in the throne room sequence. Heart to top, I think we can agree. Yeah. The Major Domo. The Major Domo. David Pesquazzi, who I know. Mr. X. Selina Meyer.

That's what I'm going to say. You're always jumping on my, yes. I was going to say, Mr. X. Celina Meyer from Veep. Love that guy. What a piece of shit. And he's great in this role. Fantastic. Perfect. The line deliveries and I mean, of course, everything that it sets up, you know, not only for, I think what we agree is the spark that causes the fight after Boba and Fenwick are leaving sanctuary when they are accosted by a band of masked assassins.

I have questions. I would not be surprised if you receive another delegation in the near future. line from the mayor's major domo certainly feels like the payoff of that line, right? That that must be the mayor's delegation. We don't know for sure. We will find out, I think probably pretty quickly because Fennick kept only one, but one of them alive to take back for questioning. Crucially, yeah.

Well, my question for you for Star Wars and you would know better than I would, like, okay, the thing that this show offers, and we don't know how long we're going to stay on Tatouin. And again, I think I'm just going to try to say it more and more like Tumor Morrison says it. But like, we don't know how long we're going to be here. I actually would not mind if we're just here the whole time. Because I don't know that we've ever dug deep into the local power structure of a place like this on Star Wars. I know that there are many arcs in Clone Wars where we arrive in a city and we help for like an episode or two or three maybe or something like that. we definitely like get to know the the politics of mandolore and all that sort of stuff but like a mayor

a local functionary like a mayor and i'm not saying he's the big bad of the season i don't think he is but like i just i just love that like the mayor is this sort of like ominous figure in this episode it's it's very intriguing i'm also eager to learn more about the post java and now post bib local politics and local arrangements in Mosaspa and across Tatooine. The mayor's presence via his absence and his emissary in the Major Domo and the premier was, I thought, quite compelling and interesting. You know, we know that his name is Mok Shays. And we both, we share a passion for parsing trailers for frames and clues.

and one of the sequences that you can see in the trailer appears to show us who the mayor is that the mayor is and Thorian because you can see Boba and the major domo in front of this character who is seated in like a seat of power and seemingly the guy that they captured at the end of this episode.

Yes, bringing in right, like, hey, I, I've got your guy who you sent after me. Let's hash this out. The mayor is also supposed to be voiced by Robert Rodriguez per THR, right? Yeah, and I have a question about that. Like, is that, was that the way that Haber's article and THR made it sound is that it was like maybe slightly a function of COVID, but like also Favro like put his voice in Vandalion. Shows to the Vizlas.

That was good though, because that's, I love the connection there to the, the Vizla arc in Clone Wars. Thaves is deep-seated past and fucking Death Watch. Car about some time for me when we get to Mando a season to talk about Death Watch. Okay. Again, I have some notes. How do you feel about the use of the title, Dimeo, care? How do you feel about it?

I think our pal, Alan Sepawal, had a great portion of his review on the initial episode that explored how this debut, this chapter in microcosm taps into all the different aspects of the influences on Star Wars in the first place. Obviously, Boba in many ways is rooted in the Western influences, but so much of Star Wars traces back to samurai storytelling and the stories from Japan. So to get a little bit of that across various elements

of this premiere felt fitting in terms of, of tapping into that Star Wars legacy anew. Yeah, I thought it was interesting. It's like, it's interesting the way that Star Wars will play with, like, you know, you have titles like Moff or whatever, and then you will have some real world, then someone's a mayor. I don't know. So it's like the blend of, like. Well, this is like me, the all-time example is like, Han, you know, I'll see you in hell, right?

It's like, what? What do you mean? Oh, my God. Mephisto Watch 2021. All right. And there's the Gormorians, of course. We saw the Gimorians in that season two episode one opener, right? They were doing a little, like, death match for John Lucasolo.

I like this updated design of them. I think something that I really love about the Mandalorian, this Favreauveloni world, is that they really do want to, you know, bring us the practical, bring us the something, you know, that I absolutely love, the puppets, the practical, all that stuff. But I think they're constantly trying to refine it. So it's like the best version of that. So like with the Gammorians, the fact, I think those are just green painted burly guys with heads on them. I believe watching the gallery episode, I think that that's true.

But I don't want to be wrong about that. But they were talking about, you know, they intentionally sort of like streamlined the design of the Gimori. And so they're a little more live than they were in Return of the Jedi. And then I could be really wrong about it. Please, please tell me if I'm wrong about that. And then we'll get to the Twilocks, but I think even the Twilic design in this episode is much better than what we've seen already in Mando.

So, yeah. So, yeah. Gimorians and their tortured squeals. What's interesting, and we see it in this scene and throughout the episode, is the conflicting ideology behind ruling, right? that Boba, maybe because of lessons you learned

from the Tuscan Raiders, this idea of like, I don't torture, I don't do this, even though those Tuscan kids were hitting with him with sticks. But like, you know, his wants to rule with respect.

Yes. Whereas like Fennick and 88 are like, I intend to rule with respect. Right. But like that Fennick's like, we should kill them. We should do this. We should do that.

Fennick says in difficult times, fear is a sure bet. And that seems to be the philosophy of rule, but even in specific moments, It's like Bobo accepting the Gimorians back into the fold. You were loyal to your last couple bosses. Will you be loyal to me? And then they bend the knee.

And he's like, cool, we're good. Fennox is like, this is a mistake. But I don't know. Like, and that's the question is like, TV 101 tells me that when Fenwick says this is a mistake, it will be a mistake. That is usually true if one TV character says to another, this is a mistake.

They're usually right. But I don't know because the, you know, the Gormeans, like they, They fight in the street and they bring Boba back to the, you know, they had every opportunity when he was super vulnerable to take him out in this very episode. It can ultimately prove to be correct outside of that specific plot point, though, and just more broadly that his trusting nature, yes, will, or his willingness to give people a second chance will prove to be his, to be to his detriment in some capacity. It strikes me as the kind of thing that I think you're right. When a line like that is in there, it's in there to prime us. is in there for a reason.

And I could see it proving true in terms of how some aspect of the plot plays out, right? Oh, and this, like, I kind of like, okay, I told you so a moment. But ultimately, I think that, or I hope maybe is the way to put it,

that Boba's philosophy will be the one that wins the day because that will ultimately be, I think, a more fulfilling and rich story in terms of, and listen, Star Wars, no stranger to a redemption arc,

you know? So how do we get there? What does that look like? And I think, again, And I know I mentioned this line already, but like I did love that Mando line. She was left for dead on the sands of Tatouine, as was I, but fate sometimes steps in to rescue the wretched. Like, I think the fact that Boba views himself that way. At one point in time, the wretched is important because it's the thing that he's operating against and working to move beyond.

Right. And this idea of like, is he trying to build a better Tatooine for for the Tuscan Raiders or for the poor moisture? What does building a better Tatooine mean if you're like, I'm a crime lord? now. I mean, but a crime lord who, you know, like Shivroy wants to reform from the inside. No, what's really interesting about this, like, why are they here? Shiff would thrive on tattooing. Let me say. Why are they here? Why is he trying to take over this? I think a big question mark in all of that is he kills Bibb. Take over Java's palace. but I think they forgot to check just how successful Bibb was like was at this job because it seems to me like in the years that Bibb has, you know, been on the throne, he has lost a lot of the power that Jabba's, you know, franchise once held over Tatween.

That's the context clues. Because I don't think it's just that these people would see a sense of weakness at Boba and are choosing to not respect him. I think it's a question of, like, how much were they respecting Bib Fortuna, you know? It's a great point, and it makes me think of a couple different things that maybe prime us here a little bit, too. If we think back to the season two Mando premiere with our guy, Timmy, have we mentioned them yet? And his hair. And what we learn from his backstory about the mining collective coming in. And that idea more broadly of what happens.

and what sort of forces immediately move to fill any kind of power vacuum. And of course, that was like the fall of the empire. But what else do we know from, again, in what we've learned in Mando? And, you know, these stories, again, we should just keep reiterating her said in the same timeline. And so I think the things that we've learned in Mando are very germane to apply here. The backstory that we get about Phenic is not just her connection to the huts and to the crime syndicates, but that that little nugget about how all these people she used to work for in the Republic custody now. People who have been taken off the board, power players who have been taken off the board.

You know, we have seen, of course, Leah kill Jabba the Hut directly. There's some of this that we have seen with our own eyes. But what, what, as you're asking, like, happened in the intervening years? And I think that that's part of why the two timelines are so intriguing because of the gaps that they can fill in along the way, why some of these mysteries and questions about what other syndicates, what the mayor is really after, who the mayor might be working for, what was that tag on the moisture form? We're going to talk about some of this later in like our conspiracy corner segment,

but there's a lot already to make us wonder not only who is involved and on the board, but what those people are after is a just power or is it something more precise and something more concrete? And Fennec, because we know she had connections to a lot of these Tatoo-Ween-specific factions, working for the huts, etc., might have some information to impart there about Bibbs Rain, for example. This is the perfect opportunity when you're talking about who takes advantage of a power vacuum, perfect opportunity in my mind, to talk about my new girlfriend, Garza Fipp, play bid done the deals. So we go from the sanctuary. To the sanctuary.

There's a lot to see and talk about on the way there, you know, Boston Dynamics, robots in the streets. Dude, those freaks me out. Like, you know, all this sort of stuff, the fact that... It's like, oh, no, we're suddenly in a black mirror episode. The fact that Bobo would rather walk than, you know, Cruz and Moses Spun is Delorian. I respect it. I would choose the litter, just to be clear. But the sanctuary, Garcif Wips here, and, like, I love her.

I love this character. I love how smooth she is. And I'm going to say right now, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty much. hitting my hopes on her being like the real power source in town. Yeah, I had a couple responses to that scene. One was just the vibes. Some serious vibes, you know, some innuendo. Would you care to partake in any of our sundry offerings, maybe another time?

Some arm rubbing, you know? Definitely some energy there. I'm into it. But more broadly, the nature of the things that she was saying in the, the way that she was saying, I'm like, poor Boba, I'm just here to introduce myself and assure you that your business will continue to thrive under my watchful eye. And the way that she responded to that, like, well, thank you, Lord Fed. And thank you for the gracious introduction and making the long journey to visit our establishment is our little slice of paradise. And you are always

welcome, as it is yours now, felt coded. And like it was masking whatever her true agenda is. And whether that's a connection to some sort of. apparatus or whether she is actually pulling some sort of strings, definitely something going on there. My favorite line read of the episode is Jennifer Beal saying one of the times that she goes, apologies. Like, I didn't see her litter. She was like, oh, apologies. You're just sort of like, what are you to, lady?

Would you hand your helmet over for polishing? If it comes back, whatever that might mean. If it comes back full of coins, sure. I saw an interesting, like that's a good transition to the street fight because I saw an interesting theory that like that they filled his helmet with coins to put him at a disadvantage on the street because he's not wearing his helmet. It was notable that he wasn't wearing the helmet when when he was attacked. Yeah, definitely, definitely agree. Also, you know, that among many other things contributes to the general question of whether Finnic and Boba should have gotten. handled like that caught caught by surprise sure but handled like that by the attackers i have so many questions about that scene you know again i think we've already covered we we both think those are the mayors guys right we got a lot of mailback questions about the jetpack and why boba wouldn't

have just used his jetpack to get out of there this is a recurring question across star wars whatever our jetpack is involved. My question was more. I think we can speculate what takeaway we should have based on the fact that he needs to be helped back quickly and urgently

into the Bacta POD after that fight. Now granted, he is like probed and electrocuted multiple times like right on the side. It's not just that he had a fight. Like he really took some damage

there and heard some damage. But, you know, there's been a lot of like, well, yeah, you know, because we've seen that he needs the Bacta tank to continue to heal after what he went through in the Sarlac Pit. But again, if we think about the timeline, like, that doesn't, I guess more than one thing

can be true at once, but that doesn't quite track for me. Because when we see him in the tragedy, one of the most alarmingly titled episodes of the Mandalorian, he and Fennick make their way through dozens of stormtroopers with ease. Like, he is using that gaffy stick to annihilate people. I mean, that is one of the most violent, like, stretches of starboard that we've seen. He handles them with ease, and then he's okay. So there's the kind of like power scale question,

but just in terms of his health and wellness, he didn't come out of that looking like he was in need of a session. And I don't want to be nitpicky about anything at all, but like I was, you know, I've seen a lot of people curious about the street fight, and I've seen a lot of people curious about boba here versus boba in that episode. And I was watching the gallery making of episode where Robert Rodriguez was talking about wanting to introduce Boba

and he's like, we want to see it. Like, he's like, he's an incredible fighter. We want to see him in his full strength. We want to see him fight. We want to pay off that promise of Boba is this cool, strong character that The Virtual Trilogy never did because he went out like a chump. And we want to give people what they want,

which is Boba, like, cleaning clocks. To go from that to this. Like, because I could accept, like, Boba post-Sarlac, Boba a little older, Boba, whatever, is not the fighting machine he maybe once was, but we just saw him do it. Yeah, so I have questions about it. The Jetpack thing, my first instinct or an argument that I saw that I was like, oh, that kind of makes sense. As someone was saying, well, they were surrounded by shields. And so he couldn't have set off his jet pack without it, like burning Fennick.

But he launches a flame from his, like, the first thing he does is launch the, the, the, like the gauntlet flame thrower. So that makes a sense to me. Loves a flame thrower. Loves a rocket launcher. No disintegrations. I mean, maybe he thought he shouldn't fly without a helmet.

And I think that's a good safety awareness. Oh, my God. Incredible. Incredible. Well, no helmet on in the healing, soothing tank, which gives us the dreams and the flashbacks that

sticks together. to give us this other timeline in the episode. I love how you're calling it flashback to incredible. Great stuff. We have a few different sequences across the episode. The first one gives us a lot of quick flashes before ultimately taking us out of the pit. And we get those flashes, as you mentioned, of Camino, of Giannosis, the slight tweak in the framing of the footage that we're familiar with. I want to talk about that slight tweak in the attack.

of the clones framing. I think it's so interesting. So basically what they did is they got a young boy to double Daniel Logan who played Young Boba in the prequels. And they used Daniel Logan's face and the reflection in the helmet. But they reshot this iconic Attack of the Clones moment where Young Boba touches his forehead to... Not a sentence people say too often.

I know. It's just like one. And it's this where Young Boba touches his head to Django's helmet. And it's really interesting the way they reframed it because basically they reframed it so that you know where you are, but you don't have to look at some of the dicey or CG elements of Attack of the C clones. Like the critter that Anakin just took down is in clear frame. And they could have digitally erased that, but they just decided to reshoot it in the volume, basically. And so you see the fallen droids all around him, but you don't see the arena. which was a model, and you don't see, like, some of the CGA creatures.

And I think it's just, it's part of their whole thing where they're like, part of Favron-Faloney's whole thing, which is like, we're not rejecting the prequels. Like, we're not rejecting them. We're embracing everything. Everything that George wanted, we're going to embrace it. But we're not going to rub your face in the thing you didn't like. So we're going to reshoot this. So it looks a little different, you know?

I'm curious. In the, in the reframed shot, is there any angle from which you can glimpse an explanation? for how Jango's helmet is exploded and split in half in Clone Wars, even though it exists after that. No? Nor do you see Jango's head fall out of the helmet, which is a question a lot of people ask me. Where's Jango's head? I was like, I don't want to talk about it.

I think it falls out right away, like right at the... Good stuff. How about the Sarlac scheme? Obviously, as already mentioned, covered. in Legends canon, this is the first time we are getting the answer here that people have speculated about and wondered about for literal decades in the prime canon. Did it live up to the hype? And I'm also curious outside of just the escape itself, how you felt about the episode where it was placed in the episode, like how soon we got it. Did you think that this was something

we would build toward? I like that we got it right away. Me too. I like that. Do it. You know people want it. do it and they did it and it worked. I mean, I will say that I just got it to, the friend of mine, and I swear he loves Star Wars. He loves it more than anyone else. I know personally. Are you talking about Arjuna? Your friend who loves Star Wars more than anyone else, you know? The person I watched the episode with, and he did not enjoy this episode very much.

And he texted me and he said, just like just as we started recording, he said, I was reminded this morning that I've waited 30 years to see Boba Fett climb out of the Sarlack Pit that said, it was still an underwhelming episode. I was like, okay. But like, I have not been sitting on the edge of my seat. This has not been top of my list of Star Wars Mysteries, I guess is what I'll say. But I, so I thought it was fine. It's not something I've been dying to see.

Oh, God. And I thought it worked really well. Yeah. I thought it was, it was fun. I, again, was delighted that it happened so quickly. It's like, holy shit, here it is. This is the thing. We've all waited for it. Here it is now right here in front of us.

Quite a bit of goop. A mystery stormtrooper. We don't know how that stormtrooper got in there. This is exactly what I was going to mention. You know, I like to see Boba innovating on the fly, grabbing a little bit of the air from the tube, the storm, stormtroopers tube. I'm a MacGyver moment. Love it. Should have been. Now, that was a dark scene. So maybe I need to brighten the screen, take another pass. Should have been some more bodies in there. A lot of people fall into the Starlight. Black Pit before Boba in Return of the Jedi. Should have been. Now, maybe they're already just like unrecognizable and he's got his armor

to protect him and so did the Storm Trooper, of course. However, no. Thousands of years. So that should be there. Now maybe it's a vast cavernous innard. That could be. Punching through the innards and then using the flamethrower to burst through the Sarlac's side and then crawling through the sand. It's a choice. I would have gone the more legendsy route of, open your mouth, I'm going to fly out with my jetpack because, again,

I am a character wearing a jetpack. Oh my God. It's a thought. It's a thought. But it was cool to see. I did love the hand popping through the sands. And also, in terms of the symbolism and more broadly what we're talking about with Boba's arc

and this journey that he's on, there's something very compellingly literalized right there of his rebirth. emerging from this coffin coming to life anew through literally the sands of Tatouine. And then the Jawa's coming in to take the armor. We mentioned Robert Rodriguez a couple times, obviously. But he's like Favron and Faluny are obviously like huge creative forces on this. But he is in theory kind of the main driving creative force on this. EP directed three, I believe, of the seven episodes.

And he has said that they're like the big ones. And so I think it's worth thinking about. about his influences, like what, you know, what he likes. And the idea of, like, the hand shooting out of the ground is very, like, Night of the Living Dead. And, like, Rob Rodriguez is, I think, much more into pulp than Favron Filoni are. So I think we're like, that to me struck me as like a real Rodriguez sort of image, you know. I loved, of course, again, just, like, closing of these little loops, like, seeing the Jawa's

take the armor, which in Mando, we see. get from inside the Jawa sand crawler, et cetera, et cetera, just like filling in these tiny gaps, many of which we could have inferred exactly what happened on our own. But like to track the armor over time, you know, we hear in Mandalorian,

Boba tell Dinn that Django was a, they talk about how he was a foundling and received that armor. And the armor goes from Django to Boba, to Jawa's, to Cobb, to Dinn, back to Boba. I just love to track that armor over time. And of course, as noted earlier, in the middle of the helmet, before it's painted green, explodes in half in Clone Wars. I've got some questions. And I will await. I will await clarity.

You'll never get it. The dreams of Beck. The dreams a big. Can I ask you, do you think that the pod, the healing pod, is in some way actually causing the dreams? Or is this just the, you know, and I don't say convenient in a bad way, like the convenience way as a storytelling device. to launch him in there because I was thinking about the fact that, and again, our question about his, like, respective strength and wellness from what we saw in Mando to hear aside, it does totally track that he would be using the pod to heal. And, like, we see the way that his face is just less scarred now here than it was

when we saw him in Mando. And the soothing, the fluids are doing their work as he rests inside and then updated and much better looking a bit of boxer briefs than Luke's old school literal diaper. So that was, that was an improvement inside of Star Wars that I enjoyed. But I was thinking about the fact that Vader uses, uses a back to tank on and on and on, on and on. And it's for soothing purposes and to heal and keep him in, you know, relatively speaking, and of course paired with the suit that keeps him in functioning working order. He meditates in it, though. And that's one of the things I was thinking about, like this meditative state

that we know characters can reach inside of that tank. And that's something that Anakin, Vader's choosing to do. But do we think that the tank is, like, causing Boba to almost enter this, like, meditative state in a way? Or is the Bacta tank, like, going above and beyond is like, let's, let me heal your psychological scars while I'm healing your physical scars. So let's do some guided therapy. They don't offer that at just the run-of-the-mill, body peel treatments that you can get at any old spa, Joe. No, no. That's the good stuff right there.

You got to go to the sanctuary for that. Before we parse the things we saw in that next dream sequence, I also did want to note that I thought it was telling that Boba says to Phenic when she comes to get him early in the episode, the dreams are back because it shows that he trusts her and that he's confiding in her. And so what that means in terms of when he last had them and how long he's been without them, that's an intriguing little thing for us to think about and hopefully find out soon. but I just really liked knowing that even though they have known each other since he found her

bleeding out on the sands of Tatouine, thanks Toro, for a very short span of time. Again, they have all of these connections to the huts, to the bounty hunting world, to Tatooine, with Omega, et cetera, et cetera. And in this span of time since they've been working together and then whatever these connections are beyond that earlier on their timelines, there's real reliance. And he's sharing something pretty personal here with her. I mean, and that's, I don't know if I have this somewhere in, like, the theory section or something like that. But, like, that's what has me, like, nervous and on the lookout for, like, a phenic heel turn.

Yes, you have this in theories. Yeah. Yeah. A fenic heel turn because, like, he, you know, her constantly questioning his approach to ruling and his trust in her, you know, makes me worried that she could say, like, listen, bud, you're. You don't know what you're doing. But try it only hit harder if it came from Fenwick as opposed to the Gomorrians. That's for sure. If it came from someone to whom you say, the dreams and Bick.

All right. So the secondary flashback is like an almost silent film, right? Because the, you know, the Boba and the Tuscan Raiders don't speak each other's languages that we know of. You know, the Midnight Boys touched on this a lot to hilarious extent. But this is a very classic Western trope of like, you know, the cowboy gets like kidnapped by the indigenous people or whatever, but then like, you know, becomes part of them. And, you know, such a trope that we're like, okay, Kevin Costner, give it a rest, you know, sort of thing. But this is like, whoa. Are you mad that I'm coming for dances with wolves?

Never come for dances with wolves. Wow. Never come for yellow. I'm not coming for Yellowstone. I'm just kidding. Some of the recent Yellowstone episodes are, boy, we could talk about for days. I have some thoughts. I have some notes.

I haven't seen a second of Yellowstone. So that was not a yellowstone opinion. I would love to hear your thoughts on Yellowstone. That was pure Dances with Wool's Shade. But I still got it, man. But the opportunity is here for. us to see something really interesting. I mean, I love when Boba shows up at the beginning

season two, episode one. Again, like, we've referenced that episode so many times, which is just an incredible episode of Mitalorian, but like, the mystery of him showing up in those robes and us being like, how'd that happen? What happened here? You know, the problem with, like, and I agree with the Midnight Boys that I love

that we are humanizing the Tuscan Raiders, work that the Medallorian had already started to do with Dinh Jarn's, like, communication with them and the sign language. and all that sort of stuff. I love that. I love it so much.

A problem with that. Does it not make Obi-1 Canobi seem like a bit of an asshole that he did not befriend the Tuscan Raiders when he lived in the deserts of Tatumine? Yeah. I mean, I think this is a challenge with the nature, again, of the Star Wars timeline where when we get positive things like fleshing out a character or an entire group of people,

and learn more about who they are, then it makes the other characters who have derisively and dismissively referred to them as sand people and tricked them and duped them. It makes that harder to revisit. For sure. Van Express a hope that in the Obi-1 show

we might see Obi-1 for fun. Like, maybe we'll find out is that there are just rival tribes. And some tribes are worth being fooled. And, you know, these tribes are dressed very differently, you know? Yes. Yes, there are certainly going to be different groups and clans within the Tuscan Raiders.

The fact that there are clans is canon and something we know. And in terms of the point of some of them doing bad things and some of them not doing bad things, I think it's also something we know. I mean, like, let's just look at Anakin. Not okay to slaughter all of the Tuscan Raiders. Not okay, Anakin. very, very, very, very, very bad that Anakin did that. However, they were, exactly.

They're holding Schmey prisoner and tormenting her. Now that doesn't mean what Anakin did is okay, but that's the thing the Tuscan Raiders did. Least favorite Star Wars name, Shmi. Least favorite Star Wars name. I would have to think about it for a while. There are some real strong contenders there, but Schme's a good pick.

Shmi's up there. Oh, Shmi. How'd you feel about the moisture gourds? The black melons, which the Tuscan Raiders harvest in the Jundlin waste. We saw this again in Mando, because the Tuscan Raiders open one around the fire as Dinn is working to foster this alliance so that they can fight the crate dragon. And Gob is like, absolutely not. That smells like shit and is pretty rude, pretty rude. And here we see the hydrating power.

It was an interesting contrast after we witness the group of, we don't know exactly, who those characters are affiliated with or who they belong to, swoop gang, mark the moisture farm with their insignia, and they're letting loose the water and robbing the water and taking the water. They're like, I have like a few different water-related thoughts, but, you know, certainly to go from seeing the way that water, can be weaponized. And again, like that's, you know, I think a pretty cemented part of Star Wars canon, if you think of something like the water tax that Java used to run during the great drought,

like working to gain power by capitalizing on this really limited precious resource, right? But then you see something like the Tuscan Raider relationship to moisture and to hydration and this thing that they know about and that they can cultivate and harvest. And it helps to, again, I think further solidify their connection to the dunes and to the sands of Tatooine and to this planet, which is their home. One of my favorite, you know, speaking of welcoming people into the Star Wars fold, one of my favorite examples of that is a couple of years ago, my friend Kristen Russo, a great podcast in her own right, like hadn't seen any of the Star Wars films at all. And so one night after some tequila, possibly, I asked her to tell me every. I was just curious how much Star Wars had like seeped into the groundwater of culture for someone who had never seen them.

So I was like, go ahead and tell me everything you know about Star Wars without ever having seen Star Wars. That was really fun. And at one point, she was talking about Luke. And I was like, oh, yeah, he's a moisture farmer. And she was like, a moisture farmer. What on earth is a moisture farmer? And the try that on someone you know who hasn't seen Star Wars. The incredulity of like what is moisture farming exactly.

But I love that we get these... Did you ask for her thoughts on the jizz-whalers? The tattooing musical scene? Not yet, not yet. Moistre farming and jizz-wailing. Star Wars, folks. It's a great universe. The Tatumine full checklist is here, right?

We've got Twilocks, we've got Jaws, we've got Tuscan Raiders, and we've got moisture farmers. I mean, what else could you ask for? We've got a massive, you know, I did not like to see Boba punch that sweet creature in the face and knock it out, especially after, as you know, we'd seen Din like communicate with massives before. You know, you mentioned the Tweed X. It's fun to see a few different characters here. It always makes me long to be back on Ryloth. So many rich stories said on Ryloth. Now I'm just thinking about Hara. Now I just want to go. go rewatch Rebels. Do you have questions about like when a Twilight has a French accent and when it doesn't? Because I do.

Okay. Did that stand out to you in Badbatch? I didn't like Google it and I read a whole article about it. But then like, but then I'm like, but then why isn't Jennifer Beale speaking with a French accent? Anyway, here's here we come to the climax of this episode, which is this critter fight in the sand. We don't know what the name of this creature is yet. Here's what I'll say. Again, this feels like the show's Robert Rodriguez is showing.

A lot of people pointed out a couple different cons for this creature. I first thought of Ray Harryhausen's stop motion creatures from like Jason the Argonauts, Sinbad, Clash the Titans, etc. But I'm just going to say not my favorite critter I've ever seen in a Star Wars film or television. Definitely pales in comparison and maybe this is an unfair comparison to like the crate dragon, which I thought looked so incredible. Or even the mudhorn. I think the mudhorn and the crate dragon were so much better than... You know what you're doing here? You're just listing a lot of other creatures who also were just mining their own fucking business in their natural habitats and had to die.

For no reason. No reason? It's survival, babes. It's survival. Oh, boy. That many-armed thing would have... Yeah, quite a pack of abs on that creature there. That's a note.

I think Ben Lindbergh called the 20-pack. Yeah. So Boba bests the beast. And the young Tuscan Rader brings the creature's head back to their home base. And it's from something like the Tuscan Rader who I think we can glean and deduces the leader of that particular clan handing Boba the gourd from which to drink the water or the milk. You milk too. we feel that Boba has undergone a sort of right of passage here

and has been welcomed into the Tuscan Fold and so, you know, we've covered a lot. That's my favorite Diane Lane movie, by the way, into the Tuscan Folds. Oh, boy. There are binary sunsets in that one too, right? Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And 20 packs.

So, you know. That's for sure. will we see this second timeline maintained throughout the show, do you think? And do you want to? Because as mentioned already, when we see Boba and Mando and he's wearing what appears to be the Tuscan robes and is holding the Tuscan gaffey stick and using it as his weapon, we can now deduce based on what we've seen here in these dreams and these flashbacks that he has assumed at least some part of their way of life. Is he fully going to join a Tuscan Raider clan? Will there be some sort of,

sort of partnership and how much of that will we get to witness? Do you think they will maintain two timelines and equal measure throughout the entire season? I don't know about equal measure, but I definitely think that it's not isolated to this episode. And I, there's a lot that I'm excited to, I was just thinking about all the things that I'd be interested to know, like, I want to see, you know, Fenne get those pistons in her tummy. I want to see them, you know, steal the ship back. You know, I want to see them, you know, there's like a lot of question marks of like, how do we get from here to here that they have time to show us. But like, and yeah, and I want to see there's a fun theory. I mean, this is in my like wild theory corner, but there's a fun theory that like, and I don't know

if I need them to be. I don't know if I, I don't know if I have a strong opinion either way. But it's possible that the Tuscan Raiders are like humanoid underneath. In some legends, stories they have been or they have been humans who are wearing Tuscan Raider masks and stuff like that. And so there's a character in the trailer played by Sophie Thatcher, who's in Yellow Jackets. Quick 30 second sidebar here. Yeah, you watch Yellow Jackets? Yes. I'm, I've seen the first five now. Yeah. I've seen the first five now. I'm trying to catch up. Fabulous. Yeah. I've had literal actual nightmares. I really struggle with horror and I don't think I realize that there was like some true, true, true, like a, like, Lord. The other lies is one of my favorite books, survival fiction and what that kind of setting does to us as human beings and then what we do to each other. Love it. But like, I won't spoil anything specific. But like, there's some fucking scary stuff in that show that I was not prepared for. It's disturbed my sleep. But Sophie Thatcher, who is incredible on that show, has been confirmed to be in this season. We know very little about the season, but we know that she's in it and she's in the trailer. She's a little older than the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um,

young Tuscan Raider that we see with a mask on. But anyway, there's like a fun theory that like maybe she's like, you know, and that she has his bond with him or something like that. I don't know. Interesting. I love any and all wild theories are on the table for me as far as I'm concerned. But, you know, I definitely think his relationship with the Tuscan Raiders is going to be so key to this evolution of his character.

And again, you know, I could see a version of the story where like he's doing this all for, you know, his Tuscan Raider family. Like, he's not concerned with power a power grab. He's concerned with making a tattooing that, like, is friendly to his found family. Interesting. Then actually run for mayor. You know, let's really bring the VIP political energy in here. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market.

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in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protect its secrets at all costs.

Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris, now streaming on Paramount Plus. Welcome to the sanctuary. Would you care to partake in any of our sundry offerings? Maybe another time.

I'm here to talk business. Then business it is. Would you like your Gimorians hose down and fed while we are sequestered? No, no, no, it's fine. This won't take long. We can do it right here. We've zoomed in. Let's just pull back for another minute or two here, Joe, before we run through some

Easter eggs and theories. That timeline factor, the fact that Mando and Boba and eventually Asoka are set in the same timeline. How much do you expect and want this show, the book of Boba Fett, to be its own thing? And how much are you expecting or wanting it to connect to the larger world and story, whether that is the events that we've seen in Mando or what might come next in Mando or Soka or beyond? I mean, I like the way that by the end of season two of Mando, we've got these like characters that we can pick up and drop off. And it all feels like the world, you know, like we can pick Bill Burr's character back up

for an episode. And that feels like, you know, good and right and drop him back off. And so I like those sort of like loose connections. When the connections get a little bit tauter, or when you have like, when you're bringing in Bocatan, a character I'm sure you were thrilled to see. Yes. I could tell me your face. I know.

When Bo says Osokatano aloud. my heart nearly stopped. And then when Asoka says, Grand Admiral Thrawn, my heart nearly exploded. So, like, I'm excited. I'm excited to see those characters, too. Like, I'm, and I'm absolutely not trying to rain on anyone's parade and enthusiasm for them.

But, like, I think, again, it's just you need to be careful when you do it. So, like, with Asoka, I think it works so well in that episode. I love that episode, her episode. With Bocatan, I could feel like I could feel a little bit of the pressure of whatever Mandelor storyline. line that they want to tell, sort of season three set up, right? Cording Dinn to join the fight, everything that happens with the Dark Sabre. No?

You're not for the Dark Sabre? I mean, yeah, I know. I'm excited, but it's just sort of like, it's about calibration. So, yeah, like, I do, I want to see, I want to see, and I'm sure he will, Mando show up, but, like, towards the end of the season, maybe, or, you know, I would love to see, of course, I would love to see Cobb Vantth, but, like, actually you could just bring Tim in for the entire season. I won't be mad about it, but that probably won't be delightful.

Won't happen. But light touches and let me play in this world and make it stand on its own. We talk about this more with Marvel because we haven't had a chance to talk about it yet with Star Wars, but this idea of like how much are you pitching forward and how much are you telling us the story that we're currently watching, you know? Yeah, I think you're completely right that it's about balance. I love those moments of connection when they feel like they exist for a reason. and bring something more fully to life and to heart. And I'm excited to see what, you know,

Faloniverse connections and Mando timeline connections we do get here. But ultimately, there's, as we've just spent a lot of time talking about, so much to learn about this setting and this group of characters. So it's all about the specific calibration. I am kind of, I have been thinking, you know, in line with this about that Kathleen Kennedy comment about how all of this is building toward that climactic story event

and what that might, mean and when that is, like how far in the distance, not only of our real life of like how many seasons of things will we get, but how far in the distance of the story timeline that is? And I mean, what's interesting about this story, which is about Boba Fett a clone, the Bad Bad Bad Batch was about a bunch of clones, and what's going on with Grosgu and the Mandalorian is all,

we're all circling this sort of clone storyline. And like maybe, maybe the, you know, the succession story of Mandelor is prime in their mind, but I actually think this big cloning story is like the thing that we should be paying a lot of attention to. Yeah. I mean, I think that everything we've gotten with Dr. Pershing and the glimpse of the lab on Navarro

and all of the strand cast murmurs and everything we learn about the way that they're harvesting Grogu's blood, I could not possibly love the Mandalorian more. Grogu is literally one of the most important things in my life. I feel it is inevitable that the, yes, I agree completely. The cloning aspects of the story are paramount and have been for some time. Yeah. I have said before and we'll say now and we'll say again,

that looming sense of inevitability that Grogu and this beautiful thing that we are all celebrating and loving, that that is marching toward a connection to the Palpatine cloning plot, like is something I don't like to. think about. I hope that's very far away. I may somehow. Palpi. Enough of Palpi. We've had enough of palpi. Have we had enough of Tatooine? We hinted it this earlier. You want to spend more time on Tatooine. I have a kind of complex

relationship with it. I really go back and forth on this. When I first watched the Gunslinger Season 1, episode 5 of Mandalorian, which when I return to now, I love as an episode, and it was like a philoni directed episode. I had a lot of the ingredients that I should have loved right off the bat. And I just was like, why are we back here? Like, why do we?

I had a stronger response to it in that respect than I was anticipating. But I think that because of all of the organic, inextricable connections between the place and the characters in this story, it feels like the right setting. And I, I've actually, like you were saying before,

just like learning more about the Tuscan Raiders and fleshing out this entire Tattoine wide ecosystem and learning more about who was filled the power vacuum and learning more about the the gourds housing the moisture underneath the sands like what is the new creature? I'm actually, I'm really eager and it feels a little bit like of a piece with some of this other stuff we've talked about where it's like we want new things but when we're returning to old things and tapping into that nostalgia, I don't want to do it just for the sake of it, but if we're really gaining something and moving forward in a way that feels like meaningful and actually helps us better understand the time we've spent there before,

then I'm into it. Speaking of things, old things that we love, or not, I just want to say that an extra homework that I did is, you know, I was watching the gallery episodes, and Robert Rodriguez talked about how he thinks of Mando as a gunslinger, and he thinks of Boba Fed as a barbarian. That's what he said. And then in the promo art for Book of Boba Fett, Boba is sitting on throne at Java's Palace in the exact same pose that Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan the Barbarian strikes at the end of the closing of Conan the Barbarian. An intentional homage. And so I was like, well, I should, you know, again, thinking about Robert Rodriguez and his influences and how he likes sort of like pulpy stuff, I was like, I should watch Conan the Barbarian because I haven't seen it since I was super tiny. and I don't remember it at all.

Wild film. Incredible, incredible time. A good film? I don't know if I would say that. But an important film in sort of the influences that it had. It comes out in the midst of the Star Wars Original Trilogy, 82. And James Earl Jones is in it as a bad guy with a helmet. It's a whole thing.

There's a shot of him on throne with a girl in a bikini. slave Leah at his feet splayed out like the shot of that and compare it to Jabba and Laia and Jabba's palace like and it looks identical. The Conan poster is the Star Wars poster. It's like it's on and on a feedback loop.

But these themes of like if you look at Conan who is like a who's a kid, he's a kid his village gets raided, he becomes a slave and then he eventually like gets revenge on the people who killed his mother and his father and reclaims his father's sword. Like, there's a lot of Boba in here in terms of, like,

getting his father's armor back, like, vengeance, even the visuals of, like, being dragged through the desert by the Tuscan Raiders in this episode, I think, is very Conan. So, like, there's a lot of that DNA in here, which I think is so interesting because it's just such a different influence than the Sergio Leone sort of samurai stuff that we saw in Mando. And that's what I mean about, like, offering up, different flavors and different opportunities for for influences in this world. I think it's so fun.

So yeah. Should I add it to my viewing list? I don't know. I don't know if I would recommend it. I had a great time watching it though. The score is incredible. The score is for that movie. I didn't know. It's amazing. Treatment of women? Many, many question marks about that. Many, many. And when I certainly, and I have seen it, I certainly would not recommend you watch the Jason Mamoa remake that they did several years ago. But I don't know. It's like one of those movies where it just felt like important to have seen it as an adult so that I have those thoughts in my mind. Jamesville Jones turns into a snake. Spoiler alert for Conan the Barbarian.

Jamesville Jones turns into a snake. It's incredible. But also bad. You shared a gif of that with us in our ring of our slack. And so now I feel like I've seen the film. Yeah. Okay. That's all I want to say.

I don't know. Barbary. From that allusion and influence to some other references and nods, any favorite any favorite Easter egg from this episode. What's at the top of your list? I mean, number one, without question, the thing that has piqued my interest and hopefully at Sweeby the Nation is the spoofing gang that pauses in their. Moister thieving to make sure to clearly mark their insignia on the wall of the,

of the poor moisture farmers that they have stolen from this is a biker game. They're very biker gang. Like more motorcycle biker gang than I feel like we've ever seen in the Star Wars universe. But this insignia, obviously, is piqued people's interests. It is an upside down version of this insignia that Conan has on his shield, which I might be a complete coincidence. It's also similar to this twin snake insignia that's a big deal in Conan. But mostly, looking for it elsewhere in the episode, I think it looks like the design on the

front of Garcifib's headdress. If you look at the front of her headdress, there is a shape that is very similar to that. And that could be a complete coincidence, but I got my eye. Interesting. Yeah, this is really fun to look at and think about it. I mean, honestly, we should just go right from this into Theory Corner because it's connected to theorizing. I'll quickly mention that I think my favorite Easter egg was,

in addition to the other ones we've talked about, we really need a protocol droid because, you know, some tough history for the protocol droids in Jabba's Palace among the torture droids and our guy C-3PO, he would have some notes. some concerns. In the concept art that they showed at the closing credits, there is a shot of like a

3PO-esque head at the foot of Boba. Listen, 88 loves those tortured squeals. Loves them. Gotta give them. Loves them. But if we're talking about like crime syndicates and wild theories, like, of course Ben Lindberg didn't have me watch

solo colon a Star Wars story for nothing. Right. Right. Let's talk about Kira. Let's talk about Kira. What do you think? Where are you on this now? Are you considering it possible, probable, inevitable? Someone pointed something out to me that has me questioning the probable. I thought it was probable for now I'm back to lightly possible. Kira's pretty active in the comics right now, Star Wars comics right now. And I think something that they do is when they're about to use something in live action, they actually go kind of off the table in the comics sphere because you don't want like clashing continuity. I know that Boba Fett was like taken off the table before. he premiered in Middalaure and stuff like that. So that is a reason why maybe not.

But listen, Amelia Clark is hanging around Disney, getting ready to invade things secretly. So it's possible, very possible, that Kira, Crimson Dawn, Darth Mall, all that sort of stuff. We're talking about crime syndicates. It would be a crime not to talk about Han Solo's childhood love, Kira.

I would be really excited if Kira joined the show at some point. The, so the insignia, one thing I just want to, and I'm saying this literally as a reminder to myself, that I want to kind of keep in mind is that we see that in the past. Like that is in the sequence

when Boba is with the Tuscan Raiders. And so that is right after Return of the Jedi. That is not the present day timeline. And so I think in terms of that doesn't mean that it's not connected to whatever's going on with the mayor or at the sanctuary with FIPP or anything else that will reveal itself in the present timeline. And I think in fact, probably they actually should fill in some of the gaps regarding the crime syndicate of it all and who the power players are. But is there a world where we get a version of Crimson Dawn and Kira in the past timeline, even if we don't. in the present, maybe that might be a strange choice, but it's not impossible, at least.

I feel like the mayor, and the mayor and the insignia are the two things that I've been theorizing about the most and feel like both of them connect to some sort of, again, even though those are two different timelines, some sort of crime syndicate faction. Crimson Dawn, I think on the one hand, some of what we know canonically about like the timeline of when the five syndicates and when

that power dynamic kind of changed adds a little bit of complexity here. But I don't know. Like they can always, they can always add more information to our current understanding of something, right? And one of the things that's cool about the syndicates across the canon is that when one of them kind of like fades or dies, they just give birth to something new. So even if it's not like crimson dawn as we know it, that doesn't mean it's not an, offshoot or something that sprung from Crimson Dawn or some sort of route in. I mean, mall is obviously dead at this point. And like actually this time, well, who knows?

I mean, we thought that once and it wasn't true, but actually dead at this point in the in the canon here now. But the mall to Dryden Voss to Kira power tracking and then everything that comes from there. I think there's a lot to play with. Could there be some sort of mining collective connection here? because on the one hand, what we saw in that Mando episode with Cobb's recounting of the mining collective moving in, it doesn't seem to match visually with what we saw there.

Yeah, their uniforms are so different. Yeah, it's a very different look, but maybe there's some connection there. And maybe it's a new group. Maybe this will be a new syndicate and a new power player that we have no connection to before. But I was literally like, these people who are attacking boba and fenwick in the street are wearing crimson. Crimson Dawn. Like that's not a super sophisticated way of thinking about it. It's like, Crimson!

Maybe, maybe. Boy. Crimson Dawn, by the way, has one of the best insignias, I think. That's a good tattoo on Kira. Let's go now to our favorite Star Wars segment. It's a secret scroll watch 2021. This is actually something we do for the Marvel shows, but like, let's just, Let's just do, if there were a scroll

hysterical. In the Book of Boba Fett, chapter one. Our producer, Juna, has suggested that it's Dave Filoni. Dave Filoni is the scroll, the secret scroll. Love it. Of the Book of Boob Phette. What do you think?

I will say Filoni was not wearing his trademark hat in the under the helmet, Doc, which is suspicious. Suspicious. No hat of any kind. I'll go with Doc Straussie here. Yeah, that's my pick The Secret Scroll I'm going to go with one of the Gimorians

but not both of them I love it and the other one is going to feel so betrayed when they find out that their life partner I'm mad that we don't know their names I would like to know their names or if you, listener, have a great idea of what their name should be

please do feel free to tweet at us or something like that but yeah I want to root for those guys do time for some mailbag questions do it show me a dinner on join us. It's mailbag time. We got some great questions from everyone across the galaxy a long time ago, far, far away.

So let's jump right in. First question comes from Sarah. If you're feeling massively underwhelmed, is there hope? I didn't feel an interest or attachment to any of the characters. It's the first episode, and I wanted to be good, hoping something will grab me as it moves forward. I think I've heard this from a lot of people that I know that they didn't. And I saw it's a lot online that people felt underwhelmed or didn't like it.

And I think it speaks to sort of what I was saying earlier where I was like, I think if there had been two episodes, I don't know that we would have seen that reaction as much. I think if people had a little more time in both timelines to merit it. But hopefully some of what we've discussed is there hope. Hopefully you're feeling some hope by the end of this conversation that we've had, that like we're trying to sort of look at the potential for. what this show might deliver. What do you think, Mal?

I think if Star Wars has taught us anything, it's that there's always hope. There has to be. Hope is the spark that lights the fire. Yes, I think there's hope. It was definitely, again, the episode did not contain maybe the massive reveals or surprises that we thought. And so I think that the relatively understated nature of it,

the contained aspects of it, et cetera, I think if people are feeling underwhelmed, that's completely reasonable. Hang with it. Hang with it for a couple weeks. See how it goes. And you know what? If you're still not liking it,

that's completely fine. Not every Star Wars story has to be for everyone. That's okay too. We've got a lot of Disney Plus shows coming. Maybe the next one will be more to someone's liking. Hello. Hello. Some might say listening to this podcast could give you a new hope on this show.

Oh, return of the joie. But if, you know, if you're not feeling it, If you're not feeling it, let me give you a ticket. There's a little show on Netflix, Ages of Shield, second seasons. I thought you're going to say, well, here's a thing, Joanna. Everyone's tapped in an arcane, right?

Everybody's watching Young Justice. I know my people, you feel of me? Sound off on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, you know what I'm saying? But Age is a Shield agenda, it's time. In 2022, the AIDS of the Shield agenda is thriving. Don't you feel like the riffraff street rap vibe of Arcane would fit in well with like a Book of Boba Fett street level crime story sort of world? Listen, we don't have enough time on this podcast to go into that.

We would be here until we'd be here until the next like February 2020. I promised I would not pressure Mal about watching literally anything else until the new year. But I'll get on the arcane train. It's on the list. It's on the year. In the new year. In the new year. All right.

This next question comes from Zach. Shout out to the homie. Zach. What would you bring to one another as tribute if the other was a new daimio? I have a few things flashing across my mind here. They're all bearded men. Oh, wow. That's so funny.

I'd bring you some Jura-Mormont gifts. What did? Okay. Well, this is an awkward situation where I have overspent on the gift. And I will say that I have opened. up an animal sanctuary in your name where all of the persecuted critters

across the galaxy can come and not be besieged by Jedi and bounty hunters and smugglers safe inside their precious Ikear that is beautiful, that is moving

that's really sweet in exchange here is a poster of animated Obi-1 from the Clone Wars which I will be sharing with you with his amazing geometric beard. Okay, thank you. I love you. Oh, boy.

What would you bring to Steve? Oh, yeah. What would Jamie bring to Steve? I would, I know what I'm bringing. Steve. I would bring Steve the Fast and Furious board game. All right. The last question of the day comes from Kelton.

Kelton would like to know. With this being a spinoff show of sorts, From the Mandalorian, what possible spinoffs would you predict that this show could create? I mean, I think it has to be under the Tuscan binary sun. It's a steamy romance. We're already working on it. We're workshopping and a while. Right here on this very pod.

Set in the world of the Tuscan Raiders. Romance must be tough. Let's be real. Romans are supposed to be tough for the Tuscan Raiders because they are constantly cloaked and masked. So it's a, you know, it's a real journey, I think, to find true love in the Tuscan culture. What do you think? No. That's your spinoff. Boy, I don't know. It's too soon to say. I know that's a cop out, but it's too soon to say. I need a couple more episodes. I feel like we just know that every Star Wars show at this point is designed in part to give us three or four more spinoffs.

So this feels inevitable. I guess right now the thing I would want is I want the sanctuary. And not to be confused with I believe season one, episode four, chapter four of Mandalorian Sanctuary, which is an episode I love. But a show set in Fwip's sanctuary.

I'm going to just hear banger after banger from our guy, Max. Max. You know, cranking out the hits still. The drink cart on the droid. I mean, Joanna, you love a beverage.

What did you think of the drink card droid? That looked amazing. I do love a beverage. You love a beverage? Thanks for calling me out. I'll leave that. Can I yes and your concept, which is this? Imagine, let's take us back a couple decades.

A young Garcifib. She's a Besscar minor worker by day. By night, she dances at the sanctuary. It's it's twilight flash dance. I mean, yeah, Jennifer Beals, you got to do twilight flashdance. Jomey. You guys alluded to it earlier, but the mayor, you know, got his power somewhere, right? I want to see, you know, an election thriller, you know, a political thriller in the vein of the Winter Soldier or the Marcheering candidate.

Right. How did he rise to power? You know? What kind of backdoor deals that he had to make? Did he win the popular vote or did he win the electoral college? You know what I'm saying? Like who did you have to pay off? You know, who was on the inside?

Who did you have to lobby? You know, like that's what I want to see. Who gets to vote in Tatween? Exactly. How do elections work? Do they go, you know, to Corrissan? Are they like, you know, do people have to like watch the votes come in? Like, is it like, there's a lot of things that we could we could really see.

And I'm locked in. Yeah. The Tuskans are like, who are you casting as the, the campaign manager? Oh, see, and here's the thing,

right? We get, we get Steve Karell, right, as a campaign manager, right, you know, morning,

so he's trying to be serious, you know what I'm saying. But as is number two, we get Stephen Merchant, right? But like, not like actual Stephen Merchant, like robot Stephen Merchant,

you know, not quite weekly from Portal 2, but, he's like, you know, he's not all there, but he's trying. Kind of surprising, yeah. It's not not funny. You know what I'm saying?

There's a little bits of comedy. But at the end of the day, it's just like, holy crap. How do we get this guy elected when we have to do all this shady stuff in the world of Star Wars? I think it would be interesting. Isn't it kind of surprising that Stephen Merchant hasn't been in the Star Wars yet? Hasn't voiced a droid yet. Yeah, it is. It's shocking.

Lucasfilm. I'm right here. Kathleen. I know you're listening, big fan. You know what I'm saying? I love the ringer. I love doing this stuff. But you, hey, listen.

Listen. I think of this. You know, the Midnight Boys talked about the Wire a bit on, you know, it's always interesting to talk about the Wire. We talk about power and all factions. I would love the mayor to be a sort of Tommy Carcetti-esque shitty. It's the bottom five mayor of all time. Just worth, the worst.

You're just letting you let cops kill people. The stats on your watch. That's one of my favorite worst accents, TV accents of all time, is a beloved Irish actor, friend of the pod, going, I'm Tommy Carcanti from Baltimore. Yeah. Well, Joanna. Accents are a ladder.

Oh, boy. The Little Finger accent changed episode by episode and season by season. So I'm not nailing the sports talk radio Baltimoreian. And I can, as a daughter of Baltimore myself, it's, you know, that Mid-Atlantic twang stuff. That's the best thing you've ever said, Jomey. Look, I gave it a shot. I tried. We're going to go into 2022 fresh start.

No one's going to remember that. It's our ladder. Accents are a ladder. That's really bad. Incredible. Incredible stuff. All right, friends, things would go a lot smoother if you accepted. Jomi's ways and Steve's ways and Arjuna's ways.

And they're all telling us that it's time to wrap today's episode. Thank you to our major domo, Steve Allman, for producing this episode. Thank you to sanctuary enthusiasts Arjuna Remgapal and TD say Matthew Daniel for their additional production work on this episode. And thank you to Bounty Hunter extraordinaire Jomi Adeneron for his work on the social for this episode. Remember to follow the ring of verse on spot. Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Follow us across our social feeds and head back next week for our book of Boba Fett chapter two. Instant reaction on Wednesday with the Midnight Boys and

Deep dive Palsavar on Friday. Until then, get us to the Bacta Pod. Feels like every product claims real protein these days, but real doesn't start on a label. It starts at the source. Like real California milk from California farm family. It's real dairy delivering high-quality, complete protein, with all nine essential amino acids to help build muscle, give you energy, and keep you satisfied longer. So keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk.

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