The Ringer-Verse - 'The Boys’ “Herogasm” Reactions | House of Midnight

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Van, Jo, and Charles are back to dive into the Season 3, Episode 6 of ‘The Boys,’ the highly anticipated “Herogasm” (02:00). They discuss Homelander’s further descent into madness (20:00), Starlight putting the supe life behind her (40:00), and Soldier Boy and Homelander’s epic battle (1:10:00). Hosts: Van Lathan, Joanna Robinson, and Charles Holmes Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Productional Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From the host that brought you to Coding Westworld. And Westworld, the recapables. Comes the Ringer Prestige TV podcast on Westworld. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Danny Hyfitz. And I'm David Shoemaker. Welcome to Westworld Season 4 in the Prestige TV podcast feed, where we're going to break down every episode of Westworld season four.

Every Monday, the day after the show comes out on the Prestige TV podcast feed. Wherever we get your podcast, but get them on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's Disease, ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment,

get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to by Paramount.

Plus, Beth and Rip are back in a new series. Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch,

willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris, now streaming on Paramount Plus. Hey, guys, this is, Charles. I just wanted to say in a previous episode, I made a mistake and I misremembered some stuff

that happened in the boys. And I didn't use the right phrasing. Instead of saying that Homelander's relationship was consensual, I should have said that it was rape. I super apologize. That is my bad. It was definitely a mistake, but I don't want to trigger anybody who listens. I hope that, you know, that we make the ring of verse the most inclusive space that we can. So yeah, that was my bad. I super apologize to anybody that I hurt or offended. And in the future, I will totally do better. I'm so sorry.

Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things, fandom. We are the house of midnight. That's the, I think that's got to be the house of midnight. I'll get you guys' opinion. It's like a Bella Ligosi horror left. Bella Legosi, yes, it's like a, We are the house of midnight.

Get some organs. Yeah, like thunder crashing. Yeah, love it. If Steve were here, he'd figure out a way to like play it up, but because Kerm is here, it'll be so Paul. Hey, don't disrespect me. All right, let's not be. It'll be even better.

It'll be even better. All right, programming reminders before it begin. On Wednesday, the Midnight Boys will return to to episode four of Miss Marvel. In reading that, it looked like the Midnight Boys will return to reenact. I'm all in. I will log under that Zoom to watch. Wouldn't that be fantastic?

Incredible. Who would be who would be who? Charles in charge of all the CGI effects. Oh, no. Mr. CGI. No. Speaking of CGI guys, did you guys hear? special announcement, Coke Baby Chuck is dead.

Coke baby Chuck is dead. I've talked to my family, my friends, y'all, and, yeah, the hater is gone. I'm no longer a hater. I'll never be a hater again. You'll never hear a hot take from me again. I absolutely reject that. Autumn of optimism, okay? It's my favorite thing about you.

No. We're so deep in the summer of cynicism, though. No, summer of cynicism, nope. Guys, Coke baby Chuck is dead. There's no more. I went I went cold turkey all right it's fine

why though why like first of all you're such a coward like well like why why are you changing who you are we love who you are

yeah why are you changing the world the world doesn't oh whatever so it's fine I'm like the avatar I'm literally the avatar when they needed me most

I just like went dormant and you're gonna see what happens in the next the fire nation is gonna come and I'm going to be nowhere. Are you little pissant? Are you?

You're trying to take the podcast to show people what they're missing? Are you trying to, are you, the world doesn't need the avatar right now? Are you powder? Before we get to the boys, okay, hold on real quick. Let's be the program of reminders. Like, who are we? Should we say your names?

Okay. Yeah, we like, I am Van Lathen, Charles Holmes, Johanna Robertson. We're about to give you episode three, Excuse me, season three, episode six of the boys. Thursday, the House of R will give you a deep dive on episode four of Miss Marvel. Sometimes this week, the House of R returns again, God damn it, they're working out hard to talk about Stranger Things, Season 4, Volume 2.

When is that coming out, Joe? Wow, don't ask me right now. This weekend is one coming out. This weekend it comes out. Thursday, midnight, I would say, yeah. All right, Charles, you know what we're going to do? At the end of the podcast, we're going to clear it out. We're going to litigate this a little bit

because I don't like it on here. But right now, right now, remember my spoiler warning for the boys. We're getting ready to talk about the boys. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Instant reactions to this episode, Joe. I loved it.

And what's wild about it is that, you know, this event, Hero Gasm, which is from the comics, was something that they had been talking about for so long. But that's not even the most interesting part of the episode.

It's great and really fun. And, you know, mind-boggling that they get away with shit that they get away with on the show. But it's not the best stuff that they had to deal out this week.

So they took this huge thing and then they plused it. So love the show. Chuck Wagon. I was really, really surprised because as long as I can remember them talking about the boys,

there was always this thing, whether it was from Eric Kripke or different writers, herogasm, herogasm. And especially with this season, it's like, it's the thing since season one we've been waiting for. So I was assuming that this was just going to be in like an hour of herogasm, and this was going to be just the most ludicrous episode of the boys. And to Joe's point, what I watched, I was just like, no, this is like a really interesting, intriguing episode because it's the most interesting stuff to me was all of the plot

points that they had already been setting up. And herogasm was almost more of like window dressing. Like it was entertaining. But it wasn't the stuff at the end of the episode where I was just like, oh shit. Like what's going to happen next? So I can't tell if that's because maybe

they hyped up herogazm too much. But I was definitely just like, this is a solid episode of the boys but not necessarily because of heroism. Right. Huh. Charles. , you like heroism, huh?

It's entertaining, you freaky little dog. Okay. Dan? How much a freaky little dog are you? Yeah. So here's the thing. I feel, okay, I feel exactly what you guys feel. I feel like it was a muted version of hero-gasm, you know,

because they had everybody together and everybody was involved. But two things I, I remember. impressed me about hero-gasm. Number one, it wasn't, they weren't gasming for the sake of gasm. Hero-gasm had a real function in the story. It wasn't giving us just hero-gazm as some sort of stunt

spectacle to get us to watch it and to build it up on social. And because of that, it couldn't have been the biggest deal because there was too much stuff going on around it that actually kind of took the back seat.

It took the back seat. And there were a lot of backseats being taken in hero-gasm if we're being honest, you know what I mean. And I like, I like, I don't, I don't know what you mean. What do you mean? I like, I like the fact that we did, you guys know I hate, I don't, I don't hate anyone, but I don't like prudes. Yeah. I don't like prudes.

Prudishness bothers me. They're superheroes. They're fucking. So what? So what? I stole your California connection. So what? You know what I mean?

Like, so. So what? But I was tempted after I watched it for the first time to say that this episode was now, in fact, the greatest episode ever of the boys. I was tempted to say that. So I went back and I watched both contenders for it. And my prior declaration of that is still a little bit better. But this one has a lot of meat, a lot of meat.

So to speak. Wait, so can I ask, so before this, for this episode, debuted, I went back to, like, to read Hero Gasm, to just see, like, what the source material was. And it was funny, I was just like, oh, herogasm is way bigger in the comics. It's its own volume. Right.

So when I realized they're like, oh, we're doing one episode, I'm like, okay, how are they going to fit Hero Gasm into one episode? Are they going to go, I believe hero-gasm in the comic books is like on an island. So the island, yeah. It's a whole kind of like three or four-day event. And it's funny how much smaller hero-gazm felt within the show. It was almost like the narrative that's moving along, the narrative train that's moving, is so interesting and it's going a thousand miles an hour that they could not slow down

enough to make hero-gazm that big. And that's not me saying hero-gazm was small, but I was just, kind of like, oh, this is like a quaint version. It's not a whole weekend. It seems like it's a day or two. It's at someone's house. I'm obsessed with you watching this and being like, that's quaint. All the fluids are flying everywhere and you're like, oh, how old-fashioned.

No, I mean, I think it was really smarter them to make Kirogazm a set piece rather than an event. Like, it's the background to the story that we're watching. Because I think we can't press pause on this story to go do Kirogazm. And so when I referred to it, when Charles and I were podcasting about the boys, I referred to this as a red wedding episode, not because like, not because a bunch of people die because that's not the point. None of our main characters die. Like, they're all fine, right? It's that they couldn't have gotten away. Like, as small and muted as you feel like this is, they could not have gotten away with this in season one. And maybe not even until season two would Amazon have let them do this. But because, because. Because they got Emmy nominated and they can kind of do whatever they want now, they're like, superheroes fucking, wall to wall to wall fucking, creative fucking. Does that sound good to you? And Amazon's like, sure. So. I agree. And by the way, I think that they might have gone as far as they could go. I don't know how much more gas than me it could get. If we're talking about, I mean, look, you have a superhero show essentially with a house full of people having sex. like the shot of when one of the T&T twins

was filming somebody in the bathroom that's a whole asshole dick and balls like that's like legitimately like do we think that that was a real asshole or was that like I feel like that was somebody

I don't know rate the CGI Charles it would have been great if it's EGI fooled me TOSC you call them up Dizzy Plus call them up right

So, you know what I mean? It's like, there are, you get to a point that you're fucking doing showgirls. Like, they are, there's a limit. And so I felt like it, you know, it worked pretty well. And I enjoyed hero gasm. Herogazm was fun. Well, there's milk didn't enjoy it. It's tough for MM.

That's a really tough beat for MM. Right. Disgusting. All right. Homelander involved. Find out soldier boys back. They're responsible for the civilian attack. This episode opens with the deep.

an A train doing the Imagine situation. This reminded me of just how bad that video was. And it reminded me of how fucking furious I was when those celebrities sang Imagine back in 2020. Do you guys remember this moment from pop culture? Unfortunately. Of course. You know, well, the only thing that would have made this better is if anyone from that

original video had shown up, who had had the, like, sense of humor and perspective to show up to do this one. But I cross-referenced the celebrity and there's no overlap. For some reason, I thought Rose Byrne was in it. She wasn't in it? No. No. No. These are all Seth, like, these are all Seth Rogen friends and, and coworkers is who they rounded up here. Here's the thing. I will say, though, if I'm, since Atlanta won't, didn't get away with it, I have to dig the boys a little bit, where it's just like this joke and this reference, even though it did not happen that long ago, still feels like it happened five years ago.

So when they started doing the joke, I was just like, guys, this happened a decade ago. Why are we doing this joke? But I also have pandemic brains. So like everything feels like from the beginning of the pandemic from like another lifetime.

So I was very much like, oh, get on with it. Same thing with the Kyle thing. But I think it's going to, I think that moment is going to endure as a legacy moment of how out of touch Hollywood can be in certain points.

I think that's why I pretty much works there, you know. I think, you know, something terrible happens and they sang, imagine, I just, I was just wonder what they thought we were going to think. It's like, we're going to,

oh shit, she's going to be all right. On top of all of that, that's obviously the most important part. But let's yes and that and say, also, all in different tunes. I'm like you couldn't even get your shit together to give everyone like a pitch pipe starting note to like, so we're all singing the same key. Like what, anyway. By the way, that was the beginning of a pretty rough stretch for Galgado Doe. Wonder Woman 1984 comes out.

I don't think it's gotten better. Then we have all of the champagne to fill the Nile. I have champagne to fill the Nile. No champagne to fill the Nile. All right. Okay, so they discover that Soldier Boy is back after reviewing surveillance footage. The thing is, Black Noir is so fucking scared by this, rips his tracker out and hits the fucking road. Something else I learned here is about the deep trust that Homelander has for Black Noir, which I thought was really interesting.

That came out of nowhere for me. Yeah, for me too. In the prior seasons, I'm like, I didn't know that they were close like that. Yeah, like, I didn't realize that as well. Like, like, what was the deal? What's that about, Joe, had you realized that at all that was his right hand, man? I don't remember, but like, I can only think that, like, they're originals of the, of the team, right?

Like, since, like, Black Noir. has been there since the payback days. But is Maeve also an originator? I don't know. Maybe he's the only one left from the original that hasn't betrayed him or let him down in some way. So he's like clinging to him. But also, Homelander is just like coming unglued.

So I feel like he's going to latch on to whatever he can, even if it's like someone who's completely nonverbal. And he's just sort of like, you, you person who never talks to me in that suit, you're the only one I have, you know? Do we think that black noir is the same black noir that was blown up in Nicaragua back in the 80s? Do we feel like it's the same person in that suit? I assumed it was. Don't you feel like his reaction in this episode means that he is?

Could be, but I also thought about it like this. Number one, obviously black noir and the comic is a little different. Yeah. But it could also be that black noir doesn't want. Soldier Boy for some reason to find out that he isn't really Black Noir. He doesn't, like he's afraid of Soldier Boy based upon the fact that he has supposed to have been in Pay Bank. I don't know. For some reason, I'm not convinced that that's the same Black Noir that's inside there.

I don't know why. You're on your conspiracy theory. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not going to lie, yo. If I was a black person on the 7, I would have done the same thing as Black Noir. I'm dipping. I see Soldier Boy coming back. Nah, y'all be easy.

I'll catch y'all in six months. Once y'all handle this shit, my man dashed. He got the fuck out. So what, beyond the nuke power that he's gotten from the Soviets, what do we believe Soldier Boy's original power set to be? Wasn't it close to Homelander? But he can't, I don't think he can fly. No flight, no laser.

No laser eyes. It seems invulnerability, superhuman strength, obviously healing, which all of a lot superheroes have to some degree. I think that's about it, but I think it's raised to such a level that they've been saying this whole season that Soldier Boy is like one tick under Homelander, but it's very close. It seems to be very, very close. Are we supposed to believe that the blast that he has takes away powers, correct? Yeah.

Sure. Because that's what happened to Kimiko. Yeah. Got it. Right. But does it take away powers forever or does it, is it a momentary type? Well, until we see Kimiko's powers come back, I mean, that'll let us know whether or not it takes them away forever or not. Like, if I was too prognosticating to the future, Homeland is going to eat a blast from him and it's going to depower him for a while.

and maybe at some point we get the inkling and Homelander's powers are going to come back or maybe they think they killed him. I'm not sure, but I would be surprised

if Kimiko was depowered forever now. But I think that's why they see him as the weapon is like he can take homelander's power away and then they can finally defeat him. Yeah.

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphiard. offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections, or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today.

Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiator.com. Let's talk about Homeland. The mirror scene. What did you think, Jo? I mean, like, we've talked, I don't know what more we can say about Anthony Star who's like incredible in the show. But I think this is like some of the best he's ever done. He's doing like the full Gallum Smeagel talking to himself thing. It works really, really well. Some of the language here I thought was so good.

Like he's using this like paternal language. We talked before about, I don't know, like this is the daddy issue season. He says, look at me, Tiger and he calls himself my boy. It's just like a very like dad to son. but awful and toxic conversation that he's having with himself. Like he has to like Stan Edgar, his other toxic father figure has abandoned him, called him bad product. And now he has to like father himself or something. I don't know.

I thought it was really interesting. Seeing what do you think? I thought it was interesting too. I thought it was humanizing. I don't know why. Maybe I'm in a bad space. Like seeing Homelander get down on Homelander and seeing him have to confront. basically to himself that there's a little piece of him that's just looking for someone to love him.

I was like, oh, damn, homie, homilander. Like, you know what I felt for a second, this fucking terrible, I felt bad for him for a second, which tells you that the acting is top notch because he's a completely unlovable character. He's maybe the worst. I mean, also even before that scene, seeing Homelander freak out at the sight of Soldier Boy and just kind of already knowing that this House of Cards is about to fall, I think is so fascinating

because to me, Soldier Boy represents everything that Homelander is not. Soldier Boy is almost, he believes in himself way too much to a point where I'm just like, when they're in the hotel, and he's like,

do you even know what the internet is? Like, Soldier Boy, to him, it doesn't even fucking matter. You can drop him in any decade, and he still thinks he's the man in a way, homelander always needs people around him to assure him that he's the best, which I found fascinating.

Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of Trump thing that we're doing, right? We're doing somebody that doesn't want sycophance that needs sick offense because for some reason, he lacks the ability to connect with people on a human level, which can make you danger is the more power that you have. The mirror scene is from the comics, and I just think that they, it's one of those comics concepts that wouldn't necessarily play out on screen if it wasn't done really well. And I just thought, you know, it's not a long scene, but I thought the way they did it

worked really, really well. And again, I mean, like, I don't, like, this guy, this guy, like, who's beating this guy for, for, like, depth of performance, like, odd comedic timing, like, all the stuff that he does. Like, he's hilarious and terrifying. And, to your point, I'm sad. And, you know, it's, and, like, fuck the boys for making me care about Homelander at all, at all. His face twitches. And his mouth does that weird thing.

You don't what you're talking about? Yeah, he'll do like a, he'll start to, he'll get, and it makes you scared. I'm like, I'm scared. I don't know what he's going to do. It's fucking crazy guy. But, he's killing it. And having a villain, I always say it, your villain's more important than your hero. having a villain that commands the screen like that

is like super super important to this show because it seems like more so this season than other seasons maybe I'm wrong it seems like the kinetic energy of the show is actually being driven by Homelander in this season a little bit more than even what's going on with the boys. Am I wrong to think that? Well, I think a question a lot of people

are asking themselves because this is the fun of the boys is that like everyone's kind of a piece of shit, right? To varying degrees. And I've seen a lot of people ask, like, who am I rooting for? Who's left to root for? Who's a good person? Like, it feels uncomfortable to root for butcher, given everything that he does. And that's sort of the point of the boys is that everyone is fucked up.

They have just have different agendas. And so you need, like, but people can get burned out on shows like that. If they feel like there's no one they can latch on to root for her. I think, you know, like you could argue Starlight or Frenchian Kimiko or Mother's Milk. Like there are some people who we feel like comfortable rocking with. But like the thing about the boys is that you're deeply emotionally invested in all the shitty villains too. Like I care about Butcher even though he's a piece of shit. What do you think, Charles?

Oh, I mean, this episode has continued the trend for me where I'm just like, it's going to be so hard for them to stick the landing because so. So many of them are making choices where I'm just like, you can't rewind. Like, you can't, like, star like the choice she makes at the end, she cannot rewind that choice. Like, she needs to make it. Like, same thing with, like, honestly, butcher and Huey and how dark that they've gotten. I'm just like, there's going to be a point where, like, they're going to have to lose

something. And I'm very, very interested in, like, can you put the boys back together? They've broken them so much. Like, how many more times will I believe that Mother's Milk is like, you know what? It's fine, butcher. That's just, it's fine. So that's what I'm like really wondering this season. Hey, Van, I have a question for you.

Uh-huh. Does it feel like we're maybe still in the summer of cynicism here? Still in the summer of cynicism. Still in the summer of cynicism. We're still right there. You can't fucking help yourself. I love you, Charles. You love you.

It's going to be hard for the boys to stick the landing. All right. But here's the thing. You guys are already making fun of me. So it's whatever. I'm going to go for it. There are points in this, like, there are points in this episode where I'm just like,

what Starlight talks to Mother's Milk and he's like, don't let him control you. I'm like, yo. What? If Mother's Milk goes back to Butcher after all this and there's not a reckoning, I will be pissed. Why?

Because it's, this is what they do every season, which is like, butcher's an asshole. And he fundamentally, like, fucks over everyone. I'm just like, okay, that's like cool for like two and a half seasons. But if we go into the fourth season and like everything is just forgiven and all the toys are back in the chest, I'm like, oh. Charles, that's life.

That's not life. Nick, you crazy as fuck. That's definitely life. After the events of this past weekend, I got a million fundraising emails from a bunch of people who I feel like don't do shit. But guess what? they're the only ones I got but they're like they're the

they're the only ones I got they're all I got like I can't I can't I will come back because as fucked up as they are they're the only ones

that stand in the gap from something that's like way worse what the relationship that you're describing right now between M.M. and Butcher, unfortunately, is the way things are. Like, you don't get pretty, like, porcelain, obsidian, shiny, like heroes.

You don't get that. That's not what you get. You, what you get in life is butchers and a gradiation of butchers. And you got to choose which one is the least amount of asshole. And because those are the guys, in my opinion, this is the way I look at it. those are the guys that really have the balls to stand against a homelander. And you don't always get to choose. So when I see this, of course M.M. is going to go back.

He's going to send the money to Nancy Pelosi like the rest of the are. I was about to say, I feel like you're calling Billy Butcher. You're calling Butcher the Nancy Pelosi of the boys. Yeah, a little bit. And that's the take I was not ready for this morning. But here's the thing. I actually think that this season is about that in terms of can you work within a system? Like, that is what Starlight is doing.

That is what, like, Mother's Smoke is doing. Like, can you change a system from within? Can you change the seven? Can you change VOT? Can you change the boys and the CIA and all of these things? And obviously, Starlight is the representative of that. And we'll talk about what she does later. I think by issue is that, like, for TV, I get it, is, like,

TV has to come out every single week. And like these friendships have to kind of be the same. So you can have seven, eight seasons. It's just that like, I don't fundamentally disagree with you, Vad. But I do think it is very interesting if the characters finally go, wait, why am I a part of the system? Like, actually fuck this. Like, no. Isn't that what Starlight did?

That's what she did. Like she did the thing that you've been begging her to do all season, which is get the fuck out of their Starlight, right? Oh, no. She's not just this season. She's been doing it for three seasons. And every single time, she goes back. And I'm just like, guys, guys.

Yeah, I mean, I get it. I get it. That brings us to, like, the new boys. And this is a question. Who are the boys now? Are the boys soldier boy butcher in Huey? Or are the boys mother's milk and starlight? Will the real boys please.

stand up because Kimico and Frenchie are off somewhere else in a in a in a in a C plot that is I'll be honest with you just barely working for me like it's not not working

I'm not super invested in what's going on over there though I have to I have to be honest if there was something about this season that wasn't working it would be that oh I completely well I really disagree I love I care so purely about Kimiko and Frenchi. And, like, also, can we just acknowledge that Kimiko is an absolute monster in this

episode, incredibly so? Like, and then she has that really, you know, deep revelation that, like, it's the same thing that Starlight sort of threw at Huey, which is, like, it's not the V that did this to you. This is just you. This is just who you are. To watch Kimiko, who's so used to being the savior, like, the hero, the protector of Frenchie and other people to watch her completely depowered her frustration around that.

And then to watch her fight it out and win anyway, I don't know. That all worked for me a lot. But it has to hook, it has to hook back into the main plot. Like they, they've detoured long enough and they need to hook back into the main plot. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I'm down with Frenchie and Kimiko. I do think that this episode, their plot line to Vance point, was getting a little bit like, okay, I love these characters in theory. I loved when they kissed. I love the emotions of this. But it's so far removed from the A plot that I'm just like, okay, I still want to see them with the boys in a round because the running joke is like, French, he would have loved this. And I'm just like, I actually do want the version of this episode where French he gets to

see Hero Gasm. That's actually what I want. That's true. But I think that, yeah, and it might be, Like, you know, sometimes shows, ensemble shows, are afraid to just, like, leave a character for an episode. Do you know? And they're like, we have to check in with Kimiko and Frenchie. And, like, I think you're right that we could have just, I mean, A, I would have loved to seen French at Hero Gasm. But B, if you're not going to put him there,

you can maybe just keep this for the next episode. Like, check back in with him next episode. Because we left where he had been snatched from the hospital and she was in the hospital. And you could just leave them there for an episode. and come back to them if you wanted to. I also have to say it was heartbreaking seeing Kimiko's text, where she was just like she was afraid that- She's like, I'm sorry, it won't happen again. Kimiko breaking my heart.

And to your point, Joe, like, I do actually think that scene, if it was given more time to breathe in the next episode, like the whole Frenchy Kimiko plot line would have worked a little bit for me, but because I was so, my eyes were so on like, what the fuck is Homeland are going to do? There's going to be this big fight, hero-gasm. Their C plot was just kind of left dangling. Yeah. You know what I did?

We didn't talk about it. Do we talk about the musical number or was I not on that podcast? You weren't on that podcast. Let me talk about I loved the musical number. Right? I love like when people get musical and they start doing like this, and they saw like their faces get big and they start doing like this with their hands. For those that can't see because this is a podcast, Van has musical hands, which I.

Jazz hands. Jazz hands. Yeah. They're doing like, even as why, even watching the musical number, right? I'm watching it. And I'm like,

yo man, why am I enjoying this so much? Like, why is this making me so happy? Like them singing and dancing. It was kind of stupid. But anyway, I liked it.

Because musicals are amazing. They are. Some people should respect them. Some people would disagree, namely me. But I have to ask you, Odo you. Both think are.

Nobody answered my question about the boys. Oh, I have the answer. Yes. Butcher and Soldier Boy and Huey are the boys and Mother's Milk and Starlight are the men. Oh, wow. In the non-gendered version of that word.

Yeah, very, very, very, they're the adults. Yeah, I know. You know what I love the patriarchy. You love you. You know how I love like shoring up the patriarchy. I'm a big fan of that. But they're the adults in the room, right? So I have to ask you both, do you think that the show is setting us up for the devil you know?

Because this episode went a very long way to be like, actually Soldier Boy might be more dangerous than a homelander and actually a worse person, which I didn't think was possible. But they're inching that way that Butchurch and Huey have potentially signed on with. someone that they cannot control and someone who cannot control himself and who was hanging around with Bill Cosby in a joke that I did not think that landed, but did tell you everything you need to know about how that joke landed like a fucking haymaker that joke landed. I don't give a fuck what you guys say with your woke liberal agenda. No, no, no. Like that joke landed so hard for me.

And here's why it landed. It's that thing we talked about before about them cutting away to Jack Quaid. and Huey just going, Jesus Christ, you know, like in response, that's why the joke works. But here's the thing with Huey, which makes me so mad.

I'm like, in that moment, Huey, that's when you're like, hey, yo, soldier boy, sorry, I got a call, I got to go to the bathroom. And that's when you go, apologize to Starlight. You apologize to Mother's Smoke.

You're like, dude, I am so sorry. We need to get the band together. Soldier Boy is a terrible person. And he was like, no, still like, still chilling. Still need him. Hughie, which just wants

home under day. But what I did, it started off earlier when he's pouring out all of the, and by the way, it always, they always make food look so good on television. When he's having this burger, I'm like, God damn, I need a hamburger. So, like, when he says they don't have the chop socket Oriental sauce anymore. Excuse my language, guys. And here he goes, no, for so many good reasons. For so many good reasons. No, the reason why I think that stuff.

works is because they're playing with the Captain America Man Out of Time stuff, right? They're doing Captain America Man Out of Time except like, how would it really be? Right. And it wouldn't just be like Steve Rogers being like, she will a curse. What's happened to technology? It would be some racist ass like guy who is like, I thought Afghanistan was a good guy. Bill Cosby is America's dad. And where's my chopsocky Oriental sauce?

Cause he made some really strong drinks. With Ben's a dream powder all over his fucking face. Like, that's what a man out of time is, right? And also, that whole, there's that whole portion where I guess they're watching TV. And Soldier Boy sees a dad carrying his, like, kid. Like, in front. The baby Bjorn. Yeah.

Yeah. And he was just distraught. He's like, what has happened to this country? And even then he was looking at him, like, why am I with this? What are we doing? See, to me, I think this is where the boys is genius. Hero stories, at their core,

make the reader feel lucky. The reader feels lucky, right? We're lucky that Kelle landed in Kansas and John and Martha Kent got to him, right? Because, you know, it could have been some fucking crazy people. We're lucky. that such nice people reared him up.

We're lucky, right? We're lucky that a pretty well-adjusted guy from 1942, 1945 or whatever got thrown into the ice. We're lucky that Steve Rogers is who he is, right? Because there were a lot of fucked up white dudes walking around at that time. So we're lucky that this guy was a little bit racist, a little bit sexist.

Like, we're lucky that these characters are who they are. If Tommy Lee Jones had his way, I think our Captain America would be a racist piece. Our Captain America would be John Walker. If Tommy Lee Jones had gotten to pick who was Captain America. He was the guy. So the boys actually poxed fun at that. The boy goes, nah, you didn't get lucky. You just got what was around. Yeah. Like you got what people would do. If you had the opportunity to make superheroes, they would be weaponized, they would be commodified, they'd be all of these things. And this is how this is the worst instincts of people. So when I look at Soldier Boy, I look at somebody that's like, he doesn't think he's the

bad guy. Like if you ask him, look at the way he was talking. Like, he's like, and that's different than, that's even different than, than a homelander, but Homelander knows on some level that he's a fraud. He knows on some level. Like, to me, Soldier Boy is like, yo, I actually went and beat the Nazis. Like, I actually went and beat the Nazis. I actually went and saved the world. I actually did all of this stuff. And what they do, they handed me over to the Soviet. So, like, he actually thinks he's a hero. To me, that makes him a little bit more dangerous than Homelandor

because I personally think in most walks of life, nothing is more dangerous than a true believer. Like, nothing. Like, nothing is more dangerous than one. So when I look at this character, I feel like Charles, that they should get away from him as soon as possible. I know they won't. I know that they'll stay with them until it's all fucked up.

But it... And then everyone gathers around and apologizes as Starlight and Mother's Milk. Yeah. Because they're right. Two things. When we're talking about this man out of time stuff from Soldier Boy, we need to acknowledge that the references he makes are very similar to the references Van and I make. So I'm just saying like... Quit change.

When he called Gunpowder Emmanuel Lewis. I was like, yeah, that's something that Vanner, I might say. Webster. Webster. It's like, what's like killing Emmanuel Lewis? Because he stuck around to the 80s and then he was out. Yeah. So I'm just, I'm just saying, do you want, like, we're not out here calling for the chopsocky sauce.

That's not who we are. But, you know, if you want some, like, vintage Soldier Boy references, you can come to us and we'll help you out with that. Soldier Boy, one of us. Soldier Boy is one of us. I don't know if I'll claim that. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window?

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One of the most important moments in the history of the boys. Yeah, and so she goes back to the seven. Summer of cynicism, rolling along. No, this is autumn of optimism. I'm trying my best, guys. I'm reading myself off. Well, autumn, that's like months away. Months away.

But in my soul, in my spirit, it is already the autumn of optimism. Back to school. You're buying yourself. school supplies and you're just nothing but optimism with your freshly sharpen pencils. I mean, you're, I mean, like, Charles, you're definitely right. They keep resetting shit on the show. You're not wrong about all of that. But Starlight, are you talking about Starlight versus Victoria?

Or Starlight, hop on social and quitting? I think a little bit of both. I mean, if we're going to be real, this does push Starlight in a way where she's finally like, wait, I can't keep doing this because at the beginning of the season, what may be mad is what she goes. goes back to the boys, she's just like, yeah, everything will change if I'm the leader of the group. And I'm like, start late. Please. And finally, I guess with Victoria and seeing what happened with Soldier Boy, she's like, oh, no, like superheroes are the problem.

She's actually more butcher than butcher in this episode in terms of realizing that like the way things are going about, they cannot fix them. I think that her character, especially in this episode, is probably the most interesting to watch. What do you think, Joe? Absolutely. I think that scene where she chews out Huey for his bullshit when they, like, you know, transport out of heroism into the street. And she's like, this, like, he gets, he's back on his saving bullshit. And she calls him out for that. And she's like, you said you were okay with this.

You said, like, from the beginning you were okay with this. She says, I thought the drugs had fucked you up, Huey, but this is you. This is all you. And I love that, like, his insecurities that come out, like we talked about toxic masculinity season, right? His insecurities that come out in the scene, we've been talking a lot about the butcher homelander comparisons, but this is such a Huey homelander thing. Like watching him tearfully talk about his, you know, insecurities and his like the toxic masculinity

that is hurting him too that feels like a direct parallel to the homelander mirror scene and I thought that that was a really interesting like I don't think we've spent a lot of time doing like a Huey homeland or binary I thought that was an interesting move we thought we knew

that Huey knew who he was right we thought we knew Huey's motivations we thought we knew that Huey was like was who he says he was and now we don't know what to believe about Huey you know what I mean? Remember that episode of Saved by the Bell when Zach's girlfriend was a wrestler?

Do you remember this? Yeah. And like... Charles doesn't. Charles was born. I watched Saved by the Bell. They had reruns. Like, Zach's girlfriend was a wrestler.

And then some guy tries to attack Zach. And then Zach, she like puts him in like an ankle lock or something like that. And Zach feels like less of a man. And I just, you know, it takes, you have to be very secure. It takes a degree of strength to deal and be in a relationship with a strong woman. And we thought Huey had that strength and we thought that made Huey strong. But Huey seemed like a little bit of a weakling now, man. Oh, bitch.

I knew this was always Huey. How? Spineless. Hewies always been spineless. But, like, I thought there was a, there's a difference between, like, yeah, maybe you're right. So to recap, hmm, butcher is the Nancy Pelosi of the boys, and Huey is the Zach Morris of the Boys. Is that we're talking about? Okay.

Zach Morris of the boys, for sure. Okay. What do we think about the scene, which was one of the best scenes, a lot of the best scenes in this have to do with Starlight. The scene between Starlight and Victoria, when Victoria tries to get. get Starlight to prop her up and help the numbers and all of that. The back and forth, Victoria, utterly terrifying in that scene, Starlight's super strong. Either pop my head or get the hell out is one of the badass things, most badass thing that anyone's ever said on the show, right?

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. And Victoria, letting Starlight know right then that she could beat her. Because I was wondering that. I was wondering, well, could Starlight fuck her? her up. Like, could Starlight, like, no, you'd lose. And then as she walks away, her nose is bleeding. I'm like,

oh, my God, they are fucking cooking with grace on this fucking show. Charles, what do you think? Who wins in a fight? Is it Starlight or is it Victoria? I don't care. I could, I have no emotions. I was like, oh, whatever. Sure. Because I knew I knew both of them would walk out of the scene. I'm like, Starlight's not dying

in the scene. And like Victoria, I'm just kind of like, oh, whatever, cool. Like, doing your thing. All right. You didn't like that scene? I just didn't feel anything. I was just like, it's just like one of those like midseason scenes where I'm just like Starlight's obviously not dying and Victoria has other plans. This is why I'm glad.

You can't even help yourself. That's not. You've already, you can't even help yourself. Because first of all, I'm trying. Do you know what the scene is really Try. Do you know what the scene is really about, Charles? Yes, I know what the scene is about. Okay, what's the scene really about? Are you really doing this to me right now? Hell yeah, we both are.

What's the scene really about? All right, so I think that you have the duality of two women suddenly thrust into roles of power with Victoria dethroning her father and Starlight, who has been this figurehead for the seven,

but really isn't because of Homeland. And I think Victoria looks at this as like, look, we're both trying to work in a system that's about to fuck us. We should team up together. And I think what Starlight is realizing is to be successful within this system, you have to destroy your soul. Victoria's already done that. She's just like, I have a daughter. I will do whatever I need to do to not only protect her, but short my own power. And we're starting to see with Starlight, she's just like, I would rather die than keep selling my soul over. and over and over again, because what ends up happening is anybody close to me is going to get hurt. It's almost like a cancer. The more these people chase power, not just their physical power, but that nameless power that comes with being close to politicians, being close to money,

it's a cancer and it keeps spreading. And the only thing that she can do is take herself out of it. Or at least that was my reading of the scene. Okay. So if you know all that, why would you boil the scene down to who's going to win in a fight between Victoria and stuff? I asked the question. So, like, Charles saying you didn't care was in response to probably my dumb question. But the truth is, like, you have like a really good, you have a really, that's a really good take on the scene. It is. It's just emotionally. I was just like, I know this is, like, emotionally it just didn't.

Emotionally was the whole, to me, I call you out and disagree with you. And I, and I argue with you. And I do it without unabashedly argue with you. To me, this was the scene where Starlight, I mean, the last scene is the more, but this was the one where Starlight took her stand. This was the scene where Starlight grew up. Starlight's been taking a stand for three seasons.

No, no, she hasn't. No, she hasn't. Let's talk about this season, where we've seen her swallow so much for the long game. We've seen her, like, flashback to being a child, a pageant child, and doing what her mom told her to do, And, like, clenching her fist so hard that, like, you know, she bleeds and just swallowing it and going along with it for the long game.

And here she's like, you know what? Fucking no. Like, first of all, my allies have abandoned me for some stupid ass, like, soldier boy subplot that, like, that is, like, my boyfriend who's supposed to be in on this with me has abandoned me. And I just, I'm not doing it anymore. I'm not taking this shit. I'm not swallowing it. Pop my head or get the hell. out. It's one of the most

it was finally someone saying that the way y'all do shit is all fucked up and it cannot work. And that leads

directly to the climatic scene at the end where she goes ligity live. She goes live baby. I know that was working for you, Charles. Come on, baby. Come on. I mean, plot-wise, I was just like, okay, this is interesting. If this is truly Starlight being like I no longer can be part of Vought or the boys and her really trying to go after them, I think that that is fascinating.

And I, if the writers and directors really push it, I do want to see what Starlight not only is like out of that system, but seeing how quickly that system is about to destroy her. That to me is the most interesting. Because I'm like Starlight has the resolve. I don't know if Starlight has really gamed it out. How are you going to take down a corporation that's essentially that world to Amazon? What I think is really interesting is that she is using Stormfront tactics from last season, right? She's leveraging her like social media presence. She's leveraging her the points that we've been hearing about all season, right?

How popular she is. She says, Homeland or Made me America Sweet. heart and he's going to regret that, right? And I think it's interesting, especially when compared to what this season has said about the media and how it's used. Last season, I thought it's exploration of social media and it's direct the way in which shitty toxic people can direct address their shitty toxic base a la Stormfront, right? But in this episode, we get that scene at Vought News where Starlight is trying the original media approach, right? Which is go on Vought News with Homelander and talk about the soldier boy threat and whether or not.

And then she gets blindsided by Victoria. And then Homelander storms out of the interview and claims, you know, essentially fake news, right? And then she's, she thinks about it. She's like, no, I need to leverage my personal brand in order to reach people. The question is, and I don't think it'll be bad writing if it doesn't work, because the question is, when people did that against Trump, how much did it really take? how much did it really matter when she's revealing. It's not just like homelander being like, fuck it, I'll be myself and see if people still

like me. It's her being standing in front of smoking bodies and being like, homelander is the worst of the worst. But will that matter? And if it doesn't matter, that's just fucking true life. That's not bad writing. That's just like what we've witnessed in our own country. It's going to be whatever he says it is.

Yeah. you're absolutely you're absolutely right which is fucked but it's like oh i mean to agree with you i don't actually think that um starlight should win i don't think that would be the most realistic outcome like if this was to happen in our world it would be business as usual because vaught not only is too powerful but to tear down vaught you're tearing down so many other things simultaneously in society that cannot happen. I do think the most interesting thing to happen to Starlight is that realization of she's just sacrifice everything

and nothing has changed because people don't care or at least the people in power do not care because it's like, what are you going to do? They can't kill Homelander. And now you have Soldier Boy running out. No matter how much she did the right thing, thousands of people do the right thing every single day and it just does not matter.

So let's take it back to the gasm. There's a couple of things for the gaza. Did you just shorten hero gasm to the gasm? Yeah, let's take it back to the gasm. Okay. That's my, oh my God, that's our, that's our, like, House of Midnight's lead single is, take it back to the gasm.

Take it back to the gasm. All right, so a couple things happen at the gasm. Number one, Mother's Milk takes a couple of losses, man. Would you rather? Would you rather? Okay. get encounter the first

fluid that he encounters or the second fluid that he encounters first definitely the first probably the first yeah there's too much

here's the thing there there was so much fluid I was just like you just can't get this off in one shower that's like two three showers

yeah my question too with mother's milk which is why it's so funny it happens to him I feel like mother's

mother's milk sex life is not great he just seems like too just too germophobic. I'm just like, he's just very much just like, I hate everything about germs and the human body. So this seems like his worst nightmare and that's what was actually funny. He was just like,

there's way too many fluids. Well, and like what, I mean, we had just been reminded when he tells his origin story to Starlight in the car. And he's like, this is where my OCD started. Like, Soldier Boy is the reason he has OCD in the first place. And so for him to have to like go into the, like sticky belly of the beast that is the gasm to confront him, that's like, you know. Which is metaphorically, if we want to be real metaphorically, this

might as well just be Soldier Boy's libido because it's revealed that that Hugh Heapner motherfucker created that shit. He started it back in 52. You know what I'm saying? So he's literally going back in the past and being like, course, he did. Can I have just a quick clear out of politically incorrectness?

Just a quick clear out. Like, just I'm so afraid right now. You got So my brother had thoughts about what happened to the mother's milk. Okay. So my brother, shout out to him. Because he still, you know, he was one of the first ones telling me to drink ginger ale to help me cure my COVID. And he was doing it unironically. He's one of these 5G tower niggas.

You guys know him. Five G towers. Do you think you would get along with my imamectin dad? Like, do you think that they would just have a blast again? Remember the people that I told you were mad at me? Yeah.

How do you think I know them? Oh, yeah. Fair enough. So he's one of these. So he told me that this was his words, his exact words, Mother's milk getting nutted on

was an affront to black male masculine. He was. so hot. He called me up. He was like, yo, you don't think it's a cool is that the black man has to get done it all. I was like, I never even thought of it. He was like, look at Mother's milk. He's big. He's masculine. He's doing this thing. And what happens to him at the end? They choose him. Why did they choose somebody else? I'm like, say, bro, just like, I don't know, man. You got to like, he was like,

can keep your third eye open. Oh, he didn't say that. Now you're just like. Now you're lie. Charles. But I couldn't see it. He told me to keep my third eye open. No.

No. No. No. Wait. I love him to death. Logically. I love him to death. I love him to death.

Because he's, some of this stuff sometimes, you know, made me think, give me a couple books to read, whatever. But he was hot. after what happened to Mother's Milk. Hot!

I just, logically, we just saw in the previous episode or the one before that, A-Train literally being one of the biggest simps of all time to Homelander. And he had no issues with this, but it's because the big black guy got nut on him that the black male is now being emasculated in American society. That's what you want me to believe. That's what he says. I didn't even bring up A-Train because I was too busy laughing. Got super mad, hung the phone up in my face.

Got super pissed, hung the phone up my face. Called me a pawn. I was like, talk. Called you a pawn? Yeah. You're a pawn? Yeah. Is he hanging out with Kyrie Irving?

Does he know where he's going this summer? Called me a pawn. And then when I asked him if he was watching the next one, he was like, fuck yeah. Wait, wait. While we're on the subject, how do we feel about Mother's No, has a Black Panther poster in his move on over, we'll move on over you. He's up on his

as well. Is that I didn't see that. I didn't see that wait. Is this a actual Black Panthers in our real world or is this Marvels? This is not Wakanda. This is Oakland, California. Oh, the Black Panther. The Black Panthers. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, I thought no. I think he's won a lot of stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I could tell where a lot of his politics and kind of how his, you know, his worldview was formed. So that made a lot of sense to me. I want to shout out two other things. First of all, Mother's Milk champion of sex workers. Love that for him. Secondly, I know we've talked a lot about Starlight and how we love her. But can I just shout out Aaron Moriarty's performance when they're trying to get into Heroism? And she's talking about how Mother's Milk is so good at Cunalingis. And she's just like, I'm on, mama, ma. Like, she's just like, miming it. It's like incredible stuff. That was super funny.

He's so good at him. He's like the best. It's like, blah, right. Yeah. Can I also say that I weirdly think Mother's Milk and Starlight have some of the best chemistry in terms of like friendship? Like even I think in the second season, when they're all in the car with Huey this season, whenever Starlight and Mother's Milk are together, they're just two characters that have such big hearts. And they're the only two that.

recognize it. And she's always asking if Mother Mok is like all right. I just think those two, their friendship is just so special. And I love whenever they're on screen together. It's so funny. Mm-hmm. Um, what was the most shocking thing about hero-gazim to you guys, the gazom? I wasn't shocked by anything. I wanted to ask like what your favorite thing was. That was like the flaming dick was like pretty good. I will also say, do you think that as very, viewers, we have been a little desensitized to the boys in terms of like the stuff. Like, because I think this season, I think the dude's dick blowing up from like the miniature man in the pilot is nastier and freakier than anything that actually happened in here.

Without a doubt. You know what I'm saying? Or like, this is like the second time we've seen a stretchy penis in the boys. I think we had one in one of the other seasons. Yeah, Love Sausage came back. Yeah. This is the second time we've seen Love Sausage. Yeah.

So I was just like, oh, it's not, it's not that hero-agasm isn't, like, funny. It's more so that I'm so used to, like, the boys doing the nastiest thing ever that I'm just like. I love that Charles is just like, like, I love that Vance Brothers, like, keep your fucking third eye open of what they're doing here. And Charles is like, yon, I've seen, I've seen gas in your gasps. Here's thing. I saw a dude's dick explode in the pilot of this, like, of the first episode of this is. But you didn't see a close-up of an asshole. Like, that's-

All right, here's the thing. The closer of the assholes, that's, that's, that's O'D, bro. Like, it was right in the screen. I'm not saying it's worse, I'm just saying, I'm not saying I'm going to be honest with you. That's one thing. And I've watched a lot of TV in my life. I've never seen that on TV before. I've never seen Dick Ball's asshole right in the goddamn.

I didn't even know you could do that. I don't be on. I really did not know you could do that. I didn't know you could do that. Again, I'm just saying, like Amazon let them do it because they have an Emmy nomination. Yeah. And then Soldier Boy walks in and says it looks like the Lincoln Tunnel, right?

Like incredible. The little line drops in this, like, Blue Hawk saying I'm going to go find a salad to toss. Yeah. Incredible. But my favorite is probably Huey when he, when like that guy whispered something who's there and he goes, oh, that's so sweet. I got to give my asshole a breather. Yeah.

Like sex positive Huey just being like, that's lovely. Thank you for the offer. Oh, I mean, even there was like one where I think the first splash page of herogasm has like this giant woman with a shark's fin and obviously they could not pay for it but like a bunch of the

what people are yelling are from the comic book about like, come on my hump. Come on my hump. Yeah. I'm like, that's from the comic book. So even though they could not fit a bunch of the, either the CGR or makeup into it, it's very funny that

they're still like. from hero gasm that they're popping in. So when I watched it for a second, so I was like, oh, that's interesting. A-Train. A-Train has an interesting little plot. He's got his own little plot. He finally runs into,

first of all, he has two encounters in here. And you guys, this is a jam-packed episode. So we're going to move on to Soldier Boy versus Homeland. I know you guys want to hear about that, but I got to give A-Train, creator of the Middle Passage video game, a little bit of oxygen right here. He has two confrontations here, one of which he has with Huey, which I thought was a pretty interesting scene.

He has a confrontation with Huey where Huey asked him to apologize for Robin, which we very famously remember he didn't really do in the first season. And he gets his apology from A-Train. A-Train is still obviously very affected by the paralyzation of his brother at the hands of Blue Hawk. he apologized to Huey Huey is surprised by it but still punches Atrain

what did you guys think of this scene Do you feel like his move here how much does he have to do with his brother and how much does it have to do also with that earlier conversation

he had with Ashley where she called him out for all of the shit that he's done Pop claw, etc. And then she says now all of a sudden you care because it happened to you. I thought that was like a really

strong moment of the episode coming hot off the heels of taking the A train to Africa footage that we saw of some VOT productions coming up. But like all, like, her saying, I mean, that's the truest thing that almost anyone has ever said on this show. Now all of a sudden you care because it happened to you. Absolutely. You know, and that's how it works in society. Is it like so hard to move the needle on caring about something unless it genuinely

directly affects you. We're supposed to live in a community, but we don't really. And so, like, A-trains fucking, as you say, simping for homelander, like his desire to be proximate to power and all of the shit he has done to achieve that and how it didn't protect him from anything. Because that's the hard lesson we all learn at the end of the day, right? And so I thought that put him in a place where for the first time ever he might consider apologizing for Robin. I mean, I also think, and let me know if I'm putting on my willcat too much. But I think the interesting thing that's happening with hero-gasm is that Mother Smoke says that thing about sex workers, how basically these heroes are using them and don't even care if they're getting hurt. You have so many layers of society happening.

You have sex workers who are hired for hero-gasm, who these heroes don't care what their powers. are really doing to these normal humans. And then you have the fact that Mother's Mok is like, these are C-listers. So these aren't even like the best superheroes. So the C-listers who are getting shit on by society and by the other heroes are now doing this to these sex workers who they're just like they're using their powers

and kind of just shrugging it off like, it's herogasm, who cares? And then on top of that, you have someone on the top of the totem pole or who used to be like Soldier Boy who he was trying to be like, Hey, I could pop in, I can tell you where the twins are. I could pop out. And Soldier Boy is like, yeah, that's cool, as long as nobody gets in my way. And we see these different layers of like,

to someone, all of these people are collateral damage. And even as A-trained, quote-unquote, learns his lesson and apologizes, at the end of the episode, what does he do? He kills Blue Hawk. He does what all superheroes with superpowers will inevitably end up doing, using the shortcut to like basically be like, I can't control my emotions. I'm going to cause even more collateral damage. And I think that that is like what I think chirogazim actually does well is kind of showing you the hierarchy of this world. And also I love that.

I don't think your woke hat is on too much at all. And I think there's even like, because you're talking about like systems of oppression, right? And even someone like soldier boy for whom I have so little sympathy, when he's talking about fighting the Nazis, et cetera, or fighting in Afghanistan and then being left by his own team. Like there's a little bit of veteran, like real veteran shit in there. Oh, I, yeah. I thought it was very effective. Yeah. We put you on the front line and then we just fucking abandon you and like sell you off to the highest bidder sort of thing. And so

I think the boys is constantly doing that, constantly looking for places where they can interrogate the power structure and like how even people seemingly at the top of the power infrastructure are being fucked some way by capitalism or, you know, the military industrial complex or whatever it is. So that's my well cat on alongside you, Charles. I actually thought that I thought that A-Train, I thought A-Train's assault of Blue Hawk hit a little different for me because he tried to do it the other way. Like, so A-Train actually tried before he took matters into his own hand.

he went to Vought and he asked Vought to handle the situation and Vought reminded A-Train that number one, they won't and number two, that he has no moral high ground to demand that anything happened, right?

And in a weird way, I looked at Vought as kind of being mainstream America talking to the black community. Like it's like it sometimes when something happens like that, the police, they go, well, look at your own community. Look what you've done. Look what, look how things are wherever you're from.

Yada yada, yada, Chicago. Yada, yada, yada, Chicago. Right. Yada, yada, Yada, Compton. Yada, yada, this, yada, yada, yada, that. Like, you should be happy that, that we're allowing you to live within us and stuff like that. So when I saw that, I was like, I wonder who wrote that scene. What are they trying to say?

right there. They're trying to say, look at, look at everything. Look, look how fucked up you are. And how fucked up you are means you don't deserve justice in this instance. And I thought for him, really, like, grabbing him and, and dragging them, to be honest with you, probably was the most purely, it was probably the most thought out thing that A train has ever done. Well, and also it's an act of sacral. Like, he knows that he could die doing that, right?

Because he's not supposed to use his powers. He might die. I think it's really interesting that, like, Butcher and Huey also put themselves directly in the line of a blast that could probably kill them, right? When they're holding down Homelander. And A-Train is willing to die to take Blue Hawk out because he just cannot fucking tolerate that this guy gets to walk around, you know, it's got free. Oh, I mean, to your point.

then I did get the read of this was supposed to be a stand-in for what happens when like a black band in society finally is like, yo, if you aren't going to give me justice, I'm going to go get my own justice, what I think was like cathartic in a way. It was just, I was trying to interrogate it because it's such a weird, that coming after the Huey scene is like makes me, it was just like, I'm like, what is this trying to say? Because it's almost like A-Train is realized. how selfish he's been as a hero and how many people have had to die to prop up his career.

So him going and immediately killing someone five seconds later, I was like, what is, like, it's cathartic, but what is the show trying to interrogate here? I get it. I get it. Makes a lot of sense. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce

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We've all made our astute observations. Charles is on fire. But at the end of this episode, there was what we wanted as superhero fans. It was a big, nasty superhero fight. It was Homeland. I'm sorry, go ahead. A quick question.

Sure. If Soldier Boy's trigger is Russian pop, how often do you think he's going to encounter Russian pop in the wild? And isn't it wild that it happened here? I wanted to, but it's the autumn of optimism. I couldn't. I couldn't, but you already opened it, so I didn't do it. This is, all right, here's a thing.

I've never thrown an orgy, but I don't know if, like, yet. Like, hey, I would probably throw on some genuine, you know what I'm saying? Some tank, whatever. Somebody just having a Russian pop on. I'm just like, this is what's getting y'all all hot and bothered. This is like the second time he's been out in the wild. is somebody's just been playing Russian pop?

I have never in my life walked around like any place had been like, oh, Russian pop in the wild. I wouldn't even know what, I wouldn't even know if I heard it. Like, who does Russian pop? Give me an example of an artist.

Pussy Riot, were they Russian pop? Tattoo. Oh. One of the two girls that were in love. Yeah. Okay. That were, uh, is that John Wick's song? Russian pop.

Do you guys remember that song? I was obsessed with that song. when they're talking about the Baba Yaga. No, no, no, no, no, no. The John Wick song, when John Wick is killing people in the, when he's going through the thing, killing people. You guys have never heard this song. The song is a fucking jam.

What would be the genre or song that would trigger you both, like Soldier Boy? If you were out in the wild, you heard it. You like, whoo. It's that country that is like, like shove a boot up their ass that kind of country

do you know me Kenny Chessney for me it would probably be like a because there's a good country to be clear

yeah it would probably be like a bottom basement 90s like oh like cotton high Joe

you know stuff like that like that like that that that shit with the weird videos that would come on and would almost be scary to me. Like when I was a kid, the videos would come on in the night.

I'd be like, well, I was a kid, I was like a teenager. I'm like, this is like weird to me. Cotton Eye Joe is a scary song to me. I don't know why. I'm afraid of it. I'm going to store this information to you later. I don't know why. The song is like, it's a weird.

It's like almost a song that would be playing while some really weird serial killer fucked you up. I've always been afraid of that song. I hope you use that in a movie. And no one else better. Where did you go? No one else better use that. If like Russians were trying to torture me, it would just be like a Spotify playlist of like logic and Jack Harlow.

And just like. You just wanted to diss those guys. You just wanted to diss those guys. Charles is just like I've been to set this up something like in my Charles. Somebody get my Jack Harlow agenda. You just wanted to dis those guys. I did it. I did it.

It did. Okay. What did we think of the fight? Soldier Boy, Homelander. I got some quarter flips. Okay. Got some quarter flips in me. Flip them.

Tell me. I need to know how powerful the V makes someone. Because I was always under the impression that, like, okay, if Soldier Boy is like one rung under Homelander, that means that, like, your typical superhero is not really able to fight. with him. And we see that with the seven. The seven are afraid of him because like, Homelander's on another level.

And the fight seemed like Butcher and Huey could like, they were throwing some punches and I'm just like, how strong does the V make them? Like, even Butchers like, um... It's compound V is just temporary. Yeah, but they're laser, but his laser beams could go toe to toe with homelander.

So I'm just, I was like struggling the whole time. I'm just like, kind of with you. Like it felt like, I felt like like temp V should not make you as strong as Homelander. Yeah. Or even on the wrong below, you know? Well, the way I look at it is, I kind of look at this as like a mutation, right? So when you have an

X gene or whatever gene that the Eternals put into humans, not the Eternals, whatever gene that celestial is put into humans. Yeah. When you have that gene, you never know how it's going to manifest itself, right?

like so that latent gene so in the Marvel there are two genes the one is the X gene and the gene just pops out of alleles and the you're talking about with the the cree like the so real quick this is an interesting situation

so as I understand it and the people will tell me if I'm wrong is that there are three types of people you have people that like for example the reason why Captain America wasn't killed by the the experiment and the reason why Bruce Banner

turned it to the Hulk is not actually because of an accident it's because they have a latent gene inside of them put into them by certain celestrials that will activate if it is agitated, right? So it's already there. Some people

it comes out at adolescence and they become X-Men, but others have something inside of them that will come out if agitated. I look at the tip V kind of in the same way that butcher for whatever reason, being who he is, being his body chemistry,

might get a better power set than what Huey would, right? When you take the compound V, depending on whatever reason, you get a different power set. Some people, it makes you fast, like a train, some people, it makes you, because gunpowder is just like really good with guns,

you know what I mean? Some people, it makes whatever. Emmanuel Lewis vibes off of Gunpowder. Butcher just got lucky. Like, Butcher just got lucky in the sense that he got an enhanced power set and maybe there's a butcherism to him that makes it happen.

That Huey gets the ability to teleport. You know, so you really don't know. I don't think he's as strong as Homelandor, but I think if there was going to be a human being that the compound V would bring out some sort of hyper manifestation, I guess it would be Billy Butcher, and this is me going way down the speculative home.

I guess I was just confused because earlier in their season, they even made it seem like the seven, like Starlight, was trying to figure out like who on the seven will be on my team

and they were still even iffy on like, even if we all team up together, are we gonna be able to take down Homelander? So I always got the, the vibe that like, Homelander is so powerful that it would take a massive amount

of superheroes to really, really take him down. Well, they didn't kill him. They almost, but they almost got him. Well, but with Soldier Boy in the mix, I think the equation is a little bit more balanced, right?

And like, but I'm with you. Like, I don't think Billy should be able to hold his own for even that long. And it's possible that, like, he has an advantage that, like, Homelanders surprise. He's like, what's all this then, right? Like, what's happening here? And then same with Huey, right? Then Huey shows up and he has powers too. And so Homelander's, like, he's surprised.

He's got this, like, weird complex around Soldier Boy. So there's, like, a few ingredients in the mix, but largely I agree. with you, Charles. And then they fail anyway. So, you know. Who are you rooting for when you're watching them fight? Soldier Boy and Homeland. Soldier Boy, but it's not. I know. I hate to see that.

I know. I know. I hate to see it, though. It's Soldier Boy, but I guess Soldier Boy is just predicated on this idea that like we think our heroes could actually control him at the end of the day. And like after this is over. And what Starlight and Mother's Milk are saying,

and again, they're the most reasonable people in the room. Like, no, no, no. Like, you can't control his fucking weapon here. Like, I was going for Soldier Boy. I already know that he's going to be worse than Homelander. He's going so much worse. It seems, though, for some reason, though, that he's, the only reason why I guess I would be going for him is he's less dangerous than Homelander in a way. Like, you know, he can't fly.

He still got to take the bus if he's going to go somewhere. Um, he seems easily more killable, you know? He seems that way, but isn't that the whole like, yeah. Um, and it might also be that way that, the way in which we like, think older fascism is, is, is to use a Charles word quaint. Whereas like, homelander gives us the like a modern day Trump trigger feeling. I don't know. Also, we just know more about homeless. Like, I've seen on screen him being the way.

worst character and villain ever, where it's like with Soldier Boy, I'm like, oh, I know he's bad. I just haven't seen as much of it yet. So my mind is kind of like, okay, well. Well, there was that one scene, though, that lets you know what a dick he is, because MM says, after MM attacks butcher and he gets played, back to my brother's, my brother's point. Yeah, MM says, he says, you kill my family, and Soldier Boy goes, hmm, which one? Gross. And I'm like, oh. Um, What's wild is that we only have two more episodes in the season. Like, we were calling this a midseason episode, but it's like, we're in, we're in the final stretch here.

They did that two or three episode shit. Right. So I've been thinking that I'm like, oh, we have like five episodes left. And now I'm like, wait, do you guys think Soldier Boy is sticking around? There's no way that Soldier Boy is not in the next season. I don't know, man. Yeah. I like what Jensen Eccles is doing.

So I wouldn't mind having him the next season. But they, they don't tend to keep their, you know, know, like they didn't keep Stormfront. Like, ICASH was so good that, like, IACCH could have been around forever on this show, but, like, Stormfront is gone, right? Elizabeth Shue gone. So, like, they usually do the one and done sort of thing. But it's hard to even think of him as the villain, right?

Like, because he's not, he's not the villain. You know, like, usually on a show like this, right, you introduce a new big bad each season, but, like, that's not, he doesn't feel like the big bad because Homelanders just eternally here being the fucking. worst, right? Remember when Stormfront call for the Uber Minch? It's so funny. She's so racist, dog.

And he's like, no. He's like, no. He's like, no. He's like, what do I do? I'll tell you what you should do. She's getting a thousand Uber Mentioned German-Aryan soldiers and take over the world. Like, he's like, no. Like, what?

No. So funny. Charles, if you can only pick one thing from this podcast. Would you rather have Van's impression of Stormfront that he just did right now, where his eyes got all, like, huge? Or his jazz hands from earlier. Jazz hands. Because here's the thing. We have a group when you're not around Van called the Drama Club for all of the people who are in the drama club.

That's our new name. But I didn't know if you were. I think Van might be in the drama club. I invented names for every subset of Ring or Verse pairings. Okay. What are the names? I have to debut it in the next podcast. I invented names for when it's me and Jomi, when it's me, Jomi and Steve, when it's me, Jomi, Stephen Joe, when it's me, Jome, Stephen Mow,

when it's me, Charles and Joe, I invented, when I was in COVID, when I was in, I invented names. Did you miss us that much, man? I invented names for every subset of Ringer. Remember when Van Diled to the Zoom from his hammock? Yes. And he was just like, hi, I miss you. Yeah.

It's really sweet. Love you guys. By the way, I like it. Just for some. Shut up, Bozeman. I, like, I for some reason, um, just went on Jensen Ackles'

YouTube. Not YouTube. He's a, his Wikipedia. And just sent supernatural. 2005 to 2020. Oh, that shit was on. Yeah. And her.

I think it has a record. 320 episodes. I'm like, Jesus. So maybe Jensen doesn't want to commit to anything long term right now. I'm not even going to hold you up. I feel like I tried to watch like two seasons of Supernatural. And then when I realized there was like 15 or so left, I was just like, yeah, I'm going to have to tap out of this. I think Cripke left in like season five.

It's a very different show after Cripke leaves Supernatural. I haven't watched all of it. but I've watched a lot of it. I've never seen it. What is it about? Okay. Two brothers. They fight demons.

Road trip. Road trip. Cool car. Every female character dies at some point. There's angels and demons. The literal devil is there. Do they have special powers? No.

How does they fight them? Sometimes they like get brought back to life. and sometimes they're like, you know, inhabited by the devil himself and sometimes, you know. It's very monsters of the week. Yeah, and God's chosen warriors sort of thing. Yeah. How does the show average, first of all, the show is pretty popular.

Three million viewers. But how does the show last for 15 years, man? It's huge on Tumblr, huge on the convention circuit. It's a lot of it is the Jensen Eccles charm. like he's very charming on that show. I also think there was a lot of like queer subtext. Who's the third? Castile.

Cassiell. There's a lot of when I was on Tumblr, just so much shipping. The Destiel community. Yeah, there's like a whole universe that's just like supernatural like shit like going on where I was just like, oh, this fan base is wild. So even if it wasn't like the hugest, huge is the biggest fan base is one of the biggest fan bases in terms of. And their finale, like, goes down in history as, like, one of the, like, worst queer bait revenge, like bait and switch situations. Anyway, by the way, Kripke, I just realized that Kripke did another show that Kaleika and I loved that nobody else liked. Which is?

Revolution. Revolution power sign? No. Junk Carlos. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Revolution power sign. Revolution power sign.

Where electricity didn't work. You guys never saw it. That's where the Giancarlo connection comes from. Because John Carlo was on that show. Loved the show. Billy Bush was on it, not that Billy Bush, the other Billy Bush. That's when everyone was trying to have like a network show with a girl with a sword. Yep.

Exactly. Yep. All right, that's enough. We'll talk more about what Eric Kripke and Jensen Alcos have done on the next episode. Before we get into this, before we leave, though, we want to talk a little bit about Charles. because Charles Charles has said that you've heard it a couple of times during this podcast

that he will no longer be a hater that he is going to have the autumn of optimism. We want to talk him out of this. We want Charles to be Charles. Charles in all honesty, I saw a man this weekend and we talked about

how invaluable you are to the podcast and how to be. The podcast doesn't work without what you do. Van, back me up. That's exactly a conversation we had. Yeah. I said that, and people disagreed,

that the only person that we have to have is you. No, that's not true. I agree. The only person that we have to, and the reason why I felt like that was because the part that you play on the podcast is absolutely vital. That's why this cowardice. You're an essential worker.

But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Over the weekend, my girlfriend's chat was blowing up because I guess her sister saw the tweet. She's like, it's Charles all right. Then I had to explain to my girlfriend.

I'm like, no, this started as a bit. But now, like, once the bit was out there, I was just like, what if this wasn't a bit? What if this was just the bit of me just being like, I'm not going to be a hater anymore. I'm just going to see if I can stop. But that's the thing is. I never, I mean, Van might disagree.

I never think you're a hater. I think you're a person with reasonable critiques of the media that we consume. And also, I think it's boring to listen to a podcast where three people, four people, whatever, just agree about something. And the fact that you disagree, like, drive so much of the conversation. It makes the show better. I just don't understand it. I don't understand.

And it makes me, to be honest with you, it makes me lose a slight. been a respect for you that you're letting these you're letting these people uh that you're letting these people affect you like this you don't like cg i you hate it it's like it's okay you know what i watch i was going to send you something i watched this weekend 30 minutes of deleted scenes from phantom menace or for uh from star wars and it's all like poorly really Have you seen it? Have you guys seen this? Yes. It's all like poorly rendered CGI and like

Green screen. Green screen. Yeah. Fucking a terrible Yoda. It looks disgusting. Now I was going to send it to you and have you rate the CGI on it. You have a problem with CGI. Fucking own it. Actually, you know what? This is going to be another bit. We should just rate the CGI. Every single, every single

episode, I'm just going to rate the CGI on a 1 to 10. It's happening. I can't wait to hear what you think about the the love sausage in this episode, CG. Looks good. Joni, how'd you feel? Did you, do you accept Charles

giving up his hater to? No, I can't, I can't have it. It's already happening, guys. See, here's the thing that people don't know, right? I'm thinking of eye at the scenes, we're going to peel back the curtain a little bit.

Charles is not the biggest hater in the ring of verse. He's not. Who is? It's me. That's not true. No, that's not true. Bro, listen, listen. Check this out, right?

Charles, the stuff we talk about are on the podcast, right? Charles is definitely the biggest hater, right? Like when we talk about TV shows, movies, that's where Charles thrives. Literally everything else that we don't get to talk about on the pod, it's me. I hate everything. So you're a coward. You don't bring the real takes to the podcast. No, no, no, no, no.

I love this stuff that we talk about. We don't talk about sports. on the podcast. We don't talk about, you know, how people will be living their lives on the podcast. I'm a hater. I hate to see people's happy, right?

Smiling, when you smile, makes me upset. I'm just, I thrive with negativity. Negativities will fuels me. You think I got here because people are like, good job, Joe, me? I'm here because people told me

I couldn't do it. You understand what I'm saying? Your first grade teacher was like, you ain't going to be shit, Joe? I got stories on stories, bro. I'm a tier one championship hater, dog. I got a whole segment on the ring NBA podcast, real ones, where I just come in, I hate for 10 minutes, dog.

You know, the real- The real haters are the people who are, like, hassling you for your podcast. Oh, this wasn't because anybody was hassling me, to be clear. I'm going to fight them. Like, you know, I think you're incredible what you do. I think you're amazing. And don't change, don't change a thing about yourself. I don't feel like you guys have to talk me out of it

because after this episode of like Charles this is just in you this is who you are it's not the V it's you It's you It's you It's not the V

It's you're huge Oh no So we run all of that All right That's a wrap guys On Wednesday The Midnight Boys will return to React to episode 4 of Miss Marvel

A lot of stuff going on Jen Happening over there Thursday of the House of R will be back You'll be a deep dive on episode 4 of Miss Marvel. That's going to be Thursday.

But then sometime this weekend, aha, the House of Our returns again to talk about Stranger Things Season 4, Volume 2. Before we go, mid-edition,

drop the podcast on the Umbrella Academy. Tap in. The Doubleman Twins? That's what I call Steve. The Doubleman Twins. I love it. Yeah. watched Umbrella Academy. Did you guys watch it?

I don't know. I tapped out of that show on since then. And I love the comic. Joe, what did you think of the Umbrella Academy? Well, I've exchanged many, many tweets with texts with Jomi and Steve about what the fuck they did with Allison this season, which is baffling

to say the least. So it's a Wanda Maximoff thing and it did the same thing. Spoiler alerts for the listener Goddance. It's not this. I think that's vague enough. Okay.

Whatever that did, it's not good. Don't like it. No. Don't like it. But I'm any, any, I will always return to the umbrella academy as long as Klaus is on that show. That's how I feel. I was scared for Klaus at one point. Anyway.

Okay. Our producers are Jonathan, Lil Spidey Kerma, Jomi, the Explanitor, Dinner, Honor. Hashtag free Jomi, hashtag date Jomi. hashtag give Jomi a back rub. Hashtag Hot Jomi Summer. Hashtag Hot Jomi Summer on social media. Additional production from our Juno Ramgapal, Charles. Please take us up.

Hierogasm is over and boy did we have a ball. But Coke baby Chuck is dead and all y'all are getting is optimism this a pew-pute. What's the difference between it? between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people, real care, real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting cheese,

or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt, keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk by real California farm families.