The Ringer-Verse - The Build the Best Batman Movie Draft | House of R

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

Mal and Jo throw up the bat signal and recruit Sean Fennessey and Daniel Chin to draft the ultimate Batman movie! They begin with what their personal relationship to Batman is and what the Caped Crusader means to them (09:41). Then they dive in to draft the best elements of all Batman films to assemble the ultimate Batman movie (31:28). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Guests: Sean Fennessey and Daniel Chin Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From reviews to rankings, the big picture is all things movies. From in-depth analysis of the latest flick to sit down interviews with some of the biggest movie stars and filmmakers on the planet, Sean Fennessee and Amanda Dobbins have got you covered. Check out The Big Picture on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? And welcome into the ringerverse here on the ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to Gotham, but also to join us on the ringer's nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. Joining me today as always, now that she's grabbed her shark repellent. spray. You never know. It's my house of our Marky. Did I know. Co-host Joanna Robinson. Oh, hello, Mallory Rubin.

Are you the shark in question in this podcast? I might be. I have a grip on the rope and we'll see what happens after that. Joe, it's not just us today. We have two Caped Crusader guests joining us, emerging from their own bat caves of content to Join us for a very special podcast. Sean Fantasy and Daniel Chinn, welcome to the ringerverse. Mel, thank you. This is the energy I'll be bringing into this episode. Okay, calm and collected.

NPR host. Yeah. Daniel, is that going to be your vibe as well? Just very mellow and relaxed. That's my usual vibe. It's true. I'm going to stick with it, but it's good to be here and get to see everybody. Sean's really on your corner with that opening.

It's true. I'm just trying to get in his head. Right, exactly. Knicks fans famously calm and collected. Why are we all here today? What are we doing on this Zoom on this podcast recording? I'm glad you asked. Folks, the Batman is coming. It is mere days, possibly by the time you hear this mere hours away. And all of our excitement, all of the hype got us thinking. What do we want out of this movie? And really more broadly, what do we want out of a Batman movie?

And then that line of inquiry got us thinking again, well, what if we built our own Batman movies in order to bear that out? And then that got us thinking, what if we built our own Batman movies via the Proud Ringer podcast tradition of a draft? And then that got us thinking, wouldn't it be fun to ask Sean? Batman enthusiast and godfather of the Ringer podcast draft experience over at the Big Picture here to bless. our house of our draft voyage. And Daniel, Batman lover, Ringer nerd culture scribe covering Batman and every new superhero installment

over on the ringer.com to join us for this exercise, which I have no doubt will be harmonious, peaceful, not at all acrimonious, weird, overly intense. Welcome, everyone, to the build,

the best Batman movie draft. Can I ask a question before we get too far into this, Mallory? So, Mal famously competitive, right? Now everybody knows anybody who's ever heard Mallory on the legendary superhero draft many years ago. Iconic. On various podcasts on the Ringerverse.

You bring a level of intensity to these engagements. And I just want to get a sense right up top, especially for Joe and Daniel and I. Like, what is its stake here? Like what are we fighting for? What are the, what, what's the goal? Yeah. I'm not going to let you do this to me. I'm not going to let you toy with me and try to warp my perception of this exercise.

You know, look, what's at stake? What's the goal? I'd say the goal is a shared experience, which is always the goal here at the ring of verse. You know, community, joy, the pursuit of excellence, dare I say. Now, beyond that, one person's excellence. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Glory. Glory. There's that. But there's a lot of talk in Slack before the Zoom about the level of intensity. And I just want to say this right, right off the jump here. I don't think I'm going to be able to bring my traditional draft energy to this pod because I'm hosting. I have to focus on moving through this exercise. I can't just stare into the color-coded depths of my Google sheet. got to focus on all of you as well.

So much like the Cape Crusader who has to balance his gregarious billionaire playboy self and his grim, dark, terrifying, weaponizing fear to stop his enemy's crime fighting persona, you're going to be juggling a couple things in this draft. Batman has no limits, but I guess we'll find out if I do. I believe that out the next 90 minutes to do hours. We are going to explain the draft format for today's extra. shortly, but before that, just a few programming reminders, as always here at the top. And we have a lot of them today because there's Batman, there's Batman talk everywhere, all over the ringer network,

all over the ringer. The Midnight Boys, phew, phew, we'll be with you on Friday to share their instant reaction to the Batman. And then Joe and I will be with you for our deep dive next week on Monday, March 7th. But that is not all. That is not all. Sean, what do you have cooking? on the Batman front, over on the big picture. Quite a few things. Thanks for throwing to me, Mel. So Joe will be joining me on the show along with Chris Ryan,

and Thursday night will have a largely non-spoilery review of the film. And I also had a chance to talk to Matt Reeves, the director of the movie, a filmmaker I'm a big fan of, and he talked about why and how he made this movie. So I hope you'll check that out. Next week, Van Lathen,

and former ringer-vers guest Rob Mahoney will join me to rank every Batman movie that was ever released. That should be a fun conversation. The Batman will be a part of that conversation. And there might, might, might be a treat on the rewatchables. There might. I'm not, that's all I'll say.

Ooh. So I got a lot of Batman coming up. Chris Ryan, our own riddler, really. I like to think. Yeah. He's more of a two-face in my mind. But it's neither here nor there. I was going to say, Matt Hatter.

Which generation of Two-Face? Which era of Two-Face? That's a, boy. It is also Batman week on The Ringer.com. We are going all Batman every day, a ton of engrossing Batman pieces for you, including some gems from Joe and Daniel. Joe, what do you got cooking up on the ringer.com? What a great website.

I mean, deep dive on Catwoman. What else would I possibly want to talk about other than Selena Kyle, my one and only? So, yeah, everything and anything you ever wanted to know about the cat is coming from me. And also, you know, as Sean said, I'll be over on the big pick. And then, you know, you and I will be back next week to do what we like to call the deep dive, which means I've been reading a lot of Batman comics. So I'm excited to talk about that.

Lottery watching lottery reading, quite a couple days for all of us. Daniel, what are you up to over on the ringer.com? What a great website. So for Batman Week, you know, a lot of what we're covering is. is the history of Batman, of course. And what I wrote about for this week was The Mask of the Fantasem, which I feel like is a very underrated Batman movie. I loved the animated series growing up,

and that movie is like, I feel like often overlooked when it comes to the theatrical releases of Batman movies. You know, not trying to, you know, show my hand or anything. Tipping your hand in it! Perhaps not overlooked in Daniels' draft today. But it was one of the movies that Robert Pattinson talked about in his many interviews talking about all the influences for this upcoming Batman movie. So I wrote about that for the site.

And early next week, I'll probably write about the actual Batman movie after I see it tonight. Wonderful. We'll be seeing it together tonight. I can't wait. Along with Van and Steve and Arjuna and Jomey, it's going to be a blast. It's going to be a blast. All right. One more reminder.

Of course, our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. We will not be spoiling plot specifics from the impending film, The Batman, which two of us have seen so far, two of us have not. More on that divide in a moment when we get to the rules and eligibility for today's draft. But all Batman theatrical film movie canon up to that point is fair game for deep, full discussion. So proceed with caution. Proceed with more caution than Jack Napier did at access. chemical. Okay. Before we dive into sketching out the draft order, the draft categories, the rules,

let's set the stage a little bit by establishing our relationship to Batman, to Batman as a character, to Batman as a comic book staple, to Batman as a recurring cinematic presence throughout our lives. Without, if you can, without tipping your draft hand, what do you look for? What are you drawn to in a Batman movie? I have a bit of a feel for this because we had the pleasure earlier in the lifespan of the ring ofverse of doing a best of Batman, Batman Hall of Theme, superlative type of pod. That was a blast. Let's start with you. What is your relationship to Batman?

It's a big one. I don't think it's a very interesting opinion to say Batman and Spider-Man are the coolest superheroes. But for me, they were when I was growing up. And those were my two favorites. And we're living in high times for Batman and Spider-Man fans. As far as like what I look for, I don't really look for much if I'm being honest. I think one of the fun things about Batman, and this is, I think, quite different from Spider-Man, candidly, is that it's a very, it's an eye of the beholder thing. And a lot of great comic book artists and writers over the years, I think, have refracted and redefined the way that that character works.

And a lot of filmmakers have done the same thing. And we're now on, I guess, our fifth Batman film iteration, live-action iteration. And they've all been pretty different, honestly. And the new one is, there's not a spoiler to say, is quite different than what we've seen before. So I don't come to it with a lot of preconceived expectations. I just want something that feels like it cares about Batman. What I don't like is when someone is making a movie and they don't really have an investment in the mythology, the sensibility of the character. You know, we can talk about Joel Schumacher in a little while and what he brought to the franchise.

But that's the only time really when I felt like a little betrayed by the franchise. But in general. Betrayed by the bat nipples? It wasn't the nipples. It was a few other things, honestly. The nipples, I'm good with that. You know, we've all got nipples. It's cool, including Batman.

But, yeah, I just, you got to love the character. And you got to love the world. And that's what's most interesting to me. Daniel? How about you? So I grew up a big comic book reader. I feel like more so on the Marvel side than for DC, with the exception of Batman.

Like, I think the first comic I really, like, fell in love with was probably the long Halloween. And I just got super in a Batman after. that. I love the anime series and Batman Beyond. And I've really just like especially like on the DC side. That's who I've been loving since then.

Keychee. Didn't tell us anything there about your strategy. I'm not trying to say too much about what I look for in a Batman movie because you're going to find out very soon. But you already gave up the, you already gave it up on Mask of the Fantasm. You wrote a whole piece about it. We know where you stand. Maybe that's what I want you to

think, though, Sean. Wow. The Long Con. I love the chess over here. I love it. A Sawyer-esque Long Con right after Joanna's hard. Wonderful. Speaking of Joanna.

Joe. What's your relationship to the Capge Crusader? Yeah, I agree with, I agree with Sean in that. I don't think it needs to be in any kind of narrow box, having grown up with both the Batman and immune series and watching and loving the campy Adam West Batman. Like, I loved both of those things. And so if you lean hard noir, I think that's really fun. And then if you lean camp, that could be fun too.

It just depends. I think, you know, talking about Schumacher is very interesting in that regard, like how far is too far into camp territory. But I think, yeah, I think the Batman could be a lot of things. I think something I'm so excited to listen to Matt Reeves' conversation with Sean on the Big Pick, because everything that he's been saying about this film is, upcoming film, has made me. you really feel like he understands all of it. And something that he said in some interview I read where he was just talking about, he's like, Gotham is all of us.

And I was just like, yeah, like, we're Gotham. So like, what is the bat we need at any given time? And that means the bat can be a lot of different things. And so, yeah, that's sort of where I said. How about you, Mel? I love it. I will not be sharing anything in this. Oh, my God.

No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. My Batman takes her well-establishment. here on this very podcast. I have nothing to hide. Perhaps with the exception of my innermost self. And you know, that's what I love about Batman.

What a transition. Wait, so, wait, wait, let's see if we can triangulate everything we know about Mallory's love of Batman. You're a Batfleck supporter. I know that about you. Yes, but I always feel compelled to note that I would draw the distinction between the films and the specific Batman portrayal. The betrayal, yeah, sure, sure. You fought to make sure a certain film was in the lineup here,

so, you know, I know that about you. Sean, what else do we know about Mallory's Batman taste? I have a big piece of information, which is that I know that Mallory loves, loves the Lego Batman movie. That is also true. I thought you would forget that. You know, actually...

Literally one of my favorite. favorite movies ever made. No exaggeration. It's funny. It popped back into my mind last night because I was, I was also saw our friend Andy Greenwald and Andy shared the same. He said out loud, I think the best Batman movie is the Lego Batman movie.

And I said, I think, I think Mallory Rubin has the same opinion. I think the best movie. Ever right. It's the Lego Batman movie. Daniel, you've worked with Mallory for a long time. Do you do you have any insights into Mallory's

It's bad thing. We didn't all share insights about the rest. I really like how we're getting a scatting report on the artery right now. I'm going to soaking it in right now. Because I don't think I do know about your Batman secrets here. Here's my prediction for this exercise. I think that there will be, I think we'll all have our own, you know, our own energy, our own, our own desires, our own strategy.

I think that there will largely be two camps. I think that Shaw and Joanna will be quite aligned in their picks. I think Daniel and I will be aligned in our picks. That's just, that's my prediction. We'll see. Interesting. Maybe not. Maybe not.

What do I love about Batman? I think that I genuinely enjoy any Batman movie, no matter how bad it is. I think that Batman has, as poor as some of the, some of the Batman films that we've gotten are, a pretty high floor and a really high ceiling. The best Batman movies are indelible. And I just love the character. I love reading Batman comics. I love the movies that explore the inner soul of Bruce Wayne and his pursuits without necessarily feeling compelled to always hit the same origin story beats.

I love exploring why a person like Bruce who has a lot of the trappings of happiness in the world but is missing the real thing that can give him purpose, which is family. Yeah. Does the things that he does. Oh, shout out to a rewatchable. the fucked up family month. Yeah. Absolutely. That series came up on a face time with my dad and stepmom this weekend.

Oh, love to you. That was lovely. It was really nice, actually. And, you know, I love how weird Batman movies are. I really love how weird they are. There are the through lines that feel of a piece and consistent and inextricable from the Batman experience. And then there are, like, the bits of flare that feel so specific to every version and every creator's stamp.

And I like stories that give us that sense of clarity and eternal qualities and allow for something that feels wholly unique, each new version that we get, at least in the good version. So I'm very excited to be here with you today to talk about Batman. Here's something that I noticed that Mallory did.

Right when we all formed a coalition of trying to dig into what Mallory's bat secrets were, she tried to split us into teams. And she was like, Sean, your real enemy is Joanna. Daniel, you can consider yourself with me. I would simply observe that we are all opposed. None of us are allies today. I will not be participating in this Mitch McConnell filibustering bullshit.

I just, this is not. Oh, no. I'll state it plainly. I'm here to share opinions about things I love and to win. That's why I'm here. See, this is what you do. You misdirect and you gas, like. but you want it just as bad.

I know you do. Well, I think you should explain the design of the game because I have a couple of questions for you. About like what, yeah, I have questions about what winning is, honestly. Okay, let's do it. Let's run through the categories first,

then we'll run through the rules, and then we can run through questions. Four drafters, obviously. We have six categories today. The first is Batman. This is one pick. We will not be selecting separate Bruce Wains and Caped Crusaders, even though I think that is often how all of us think about,

which is our favorite Batman. Factor into your choice today that it is just one. You are taking the Bruce and the Caped Crusader together with your pick. Next category. Villain, you must choose the specific performers version. You must. So you have to say Michelle Pfeiffer's catwoman,

not just catwoman. A follow-up question. If Michelle Pfeiffer's catwoman is off the board, is Anne Hathaway's catwoman still in play? Yes. Got it. So multiple catwomen, multiple jokers can be selected. That is part of why you must select a specific version.

Right. The plus one. This is a pretty flexible category. Think of it as like a flexible. in a fantasy league, but it's not a superflex. There are still parameters and some bits of specificity here. The plus one can be a sidekick, a love interest, an Alfred, a police commissioner, etc., etc., really any companion or ally.

Again, you must pick the specific version. So you have to say, Chris O'Donnell's Robin, not merely Robin. I hope someone picked Chris O'Donnell, Robin. Daniel is not going to be your first round pick, Chris O'Donnell's Robin. We'll see. We'll see. Starting strong.

Listen, if you need your laundry done, no one can do it with more flair than Chris O'Donnell's Robin. Next category, Gotham. Now, this is a pick from a franchise, a film franchise, a director's swath of film, not just an individual film. So, for example, one person can say, select Tim Burton's Gotham, but two people cannot pick Tim Burton's Batman

Gotham and Tim Burton's Batman Returns Gotham. If A Gotham appears in more than one film, once it is selected, it is off the board. Next category. Bat Tech. This can be any gadget or toy that is not accounted for in another category, which I'll get to in a second. So this can be anything from a specific Batmobile to the aforementioned spray that would use to repel a shark. If the same tech spans multiple films, it can only be chosen once. Once someone has taken it, it is off the board. Now, an important note here, this is a point of clarity after some of our initial discussions. Bat suits are part of your Batman pick. Inherently, the suit comes with the Batman that you choose. So you do not have to select a suit here

in Bat Tech. You have your suit already with your Batman pick. And then finally, our sixth category, the wild card. Any anything, you can double up from another category. You can pick a second villain, you can pick a second piece of bat tech, or you can select something entirely new that is not accounted for in another category. You can pick a director. You could pick a score. This is completely up to each of us based on that like glue guy energy that we need to secure our vision for the film we are trying to make. Okay, before we run through the rules that are not accounted for in the category breakdowns, any questions on the categories?

No, but I do have questions. I'll run through the rules quickly and then we can field your questions. This will be a snake draft with Steve determining the draft order via a fair, reasonable, and firmly established across draft history method. He can pull a name out of one hat and a number out of another hat. He can use an auto draft generator, something like that. Has everybody been trying to bribe Steve in the last few days? No.

I mean, have I? Yeah. I'll save for the record. I play fair. I always play fair. Some suspicious faces here on the Zoom. All right. We'll get back to Steve shortly.

Next rule, all theatrical releases are eligible, not just live action. That means that Mask of the Fantasom, the Lego Batman movie are eligible for today's exercise. Batman versus Superman is eligible because we have deemed it in essence a Batman movie. However, team-up films, true team-up films that feature Batman like Justice League are not eligible. Now, on the matter of film eligibility, this is a big one. We have teased it already. After much discussion, the impending film, the Batman, is.

eligible today. If the drafter chooses to use one selection from the film, we are limiting this movie to one selection per film. It is the only movie that has a cap on it. Joanna and Sean have seen the movie.

Daniel and I have not. We will be screening it together tonight. Anyone though, including Daniel, including me, can pick from the Batman. It is a tactical decision, ultimately. A rule within a rule here. Since this pod is releasing

before the Batman releases. You must defend your pick if you make one from this movie without majorly spoiling the film for listeners. Anything we want to discuss in the film eligibility front here. All good. But I'm ready for Sean's interrogation. Joanna, you're not going to reveal to people that you campaigned very, very hard to have the Batman eligible. I did. Yeah. You did. You did. I did. And I'm also not worried about spoilers in terms of I'm not I'm not giving anything away. I want everyone to enjoy all the twists and turns of this movie. With the exception of the Batman, there's no limit to how many picks any of us can make

from one movie or franchise. Though, again, to clarify, once a given pick is off the board, it's not eligible for any of us. If you want to remake Batman returns and select all six of your picks from that film, go for it. That is your prerogative. If at any point, there's a question about a selection and we cannot reach consensus among ourselves. We will consult our tribunal of producers. Turn to them for a ruling. And then finally, the ringerverse Twitter audience will vote

on who has built the best Batman movie, the other draft. So check the Twitter feed after you listen to this pod, get your vote in. That's it. Those are the rules. Sean,

what are the questions? I'll just say I don't get it. Are we trying to make a great movie from component parts, or are we trying to say we have the most great parts from all the different Batman movies? It's up to you. I say, I will just reveal my strategy to you, Sean, and say, like, I want to make a great movie.

So all my, all my ideal pieces and alternates fit together. Okay. Or a planned movie. So you're looking for, like, synchronicity. You want, this is a part. puzzle. I am. I think that's a strategy, though.

But if people are voting on Twitter and just looking at a graphic, they might just be like, well, this has this Batman, so I might vote for it. That's exactly right. Daniel, you're nodding a lot. You are thinking the same way as Joanna? I think so. That was the way I was trying to think about it as well. But I also didn't really just think about the fact that, you know, somebody might just

really love Al Kilmer or something and then just automatically vote, you know. Might be time for me to zag, you know. But that's part of what it reveals ultimately part of what you look for in a Batman movie and part of what you're drawn to. Do you look for cohesion of all of those puzzle pieces or do you look for a couple outstanding elements that feel like they elevate and transcend the overall cinematic experience? I think ultimately it's a tactic, you know? Okay. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder here. If bat lips were a category, I'd be fighting for Kilmer so hard.

Best bat lips and it is. Is that not, did I miss hear that? Is that not a category? Bat lips? Bat lips? Listen, it matters. Like, what is happening underneath the cowl? Like, you know, what, like, the thing that I love about, sorry, Patent's thing is you can see so much of his face.

It's pretty cool. That's on a spoiler. It's in the trailer. Raises some questions about the intelligence of the people that he is working very closely with in the film. Yeah, yeah. It's real, it's real well. Clark Kent Glass's time here. That's a proud tradition across superhero stories.

It's true. I have a small amount of makeup and or fabric around my eyes and or have mildly altered my hairstyle. You definitely can't tell who I am now, right? It's the voice. It's down to the voice. That's why you have to go extreme. Miss Kitka.

Really? Can you tell? No? Unbelievable. Kitt's in the name. Come on. Okay. Any other questions about the rules, the categories?

If questions emerge in real time, again, we can pause and discuss whether we think a given selection is allowable. But before we begin, anything else iron out? I did actually have one question. Let's say someone were to hypothetically choose something from an animated movie, and it's a performer. So let's say, you know, Mark Hamill's Joker. In this movie that we're building here, is he going to be Mark Hamill? Or is it going to be like, you know, a flesh and blood recreation. It's okay.

Don't stress about it too much because Mallor is going to be putting freaking Lego figurines on her movies. Well, that's what I was trying to imagine, you know. Don't worry about it. If I choose Will Arnett, is he like a human Lego person now? Like, because that would be terrified. He's a Lego in the movie. And that could be your frankly genius artistic vision for the Batman movie that you want to make, Daniel. You know, kind of cross over a little bit.

You are in our tour. eating popcorn and watching. Good, good. You know? One thing I can say for sure is when we get to the end of this and we all have our teams, every movie will be absolutely terrible. Whatever movie we're putting together will be utterly incoherent. Again, we're continuing

on proud tradition here in many respects. A lot of, you know, a lot of good Batman movies and also a lot of bad Batman movies, which we still enjoy watching because they're fun. And I think we'd enjoy watching all four movies that we make here today. All right. With that, it's time for Steve Allman to reveal, the draft order and perhaps more importantly the method by which he has set the draft order.

Oh, I'm going to be doing this in real time. Don't you worry. Okay. Since I can determine the draftor. Can you turn on your camera so we can see you? Oh, a screen share. I'm turning on the dice roller that I'll be using. Wow. For posterity and for, uncorruptible.

I love this. This is a level of transparency that not even the big picture would rise to. So I'm impressed. No, no, no. Mallory steps to me and I step back. So that's, that's, that will absolutely happen. So I've only assigned people numbers from one to four. Mallory is one.

Joanna is two. Daniel is three. Sean is four. If I roll the dice and it hits that number, that will determine the order of that draft. If I roll the same number, I'll just simply roll again. All right?

We all good? I just am really realizing how badly I need glasses. All right. Really need correct. Corrective eye wear. It's just a big number in the middle that you have to worry about. It's the big green number. right here. Okay.

All right. First roll is number four. That means Sean is going first. Oh, no. And the second role will be number one. That's Mallory. Third role is Daniel. And then by default, Joe will be going last. Please return all the bribes I've sent you

over the last week. Joe, you're on the turn. I am on the turn. It's true. The turn is a strong place to be, I think. This episode is brought to by Boershead? What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursing with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. Presenting the Friars turkey breast

only from Boershead. Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borershead committed to craft since 1905. Let's begin the draft. Sean Fennessey, you are up with the first overall pick. Reminder to please not only state your selection, but the category. All right. I'm happy to do that. I believe there's only one pick, number one overall.

I could be wrong. This might not be consensus. Perhaps this is some... I'm just writing it down before you even say it. Some old millennial energy speaking here. but to me it has to be Heath Ledger as the Joker in the Dark Night as my villain. This is the single greatest performance

in a Batman movie. It's the single greatest performance in a superhero film. It is an Oscar-winning performance. It totally redefined how we saw this character and his relationship to our hero. And would any of you have chosen anything

other than this character to start the draft? I'd be curious to know. The competitive instinct in all of us would lead us to say, oh, of course there's another pick. There's not another pick. This is the number one overall pick easily. I would pick something else.

I would, but... I love it, Joe. Wow! Will you tell us at the end, Joe, after the draft is finished, who you would have picked number one overall? Yeah. I think I might have too, honestly.

Wow. Just in terms of strategy. Like, purely off of, like, characters and stuff like that, no question of me. But if you're drafting first and it's a snake draft, like, I'm just, you know... Villains. deep.

Villains are deep compared to I feel like the Batman. You're right. However, think of the, think of the voters. Think of the minds

of the voters. When they see Heath Ledger and they see Joker on that beautiful graphic that we'll have designed by our incredible team here at the ringers, you know?

And when Jomey puts that out in the world and he's like, hey, everyone, what do you guys think? Who did it? And you see Heath Ledger next to my name,

people are going to be like, goddamn, Sean, he did it again. He did it again. He has risen once more like the dark night. I feel good about this pick. It's hard not to feel good about the pick. It's a strong one.

It's a logical one. I think that Daniel makes a strong point about the depth of the villain category. I love that Daniel is attacking your strategy, your stratagem right from the jump. I mean, he might as well have said to you this town, this podcast deserves a better class of drafter. But, you know, that's what.

why I'm here to say that to you. I guess I'm up. And while I would love to have Heath Ledger's Joker on my team, I think that what Daniel already said is exactly right. You have to think always in a draft about position of scarcity and both the most important position on our teams in our movies, the foundation on which our city and our story rests, and the thinnest category by far is Batman. And I will be selecting my Batman with my first pick. I will be selecting, play voice, please, Christian Bale,

from the Dark Night trilogy, Bruce Wayne, eccentric billionaire. I think the Christian Bales, Batman, is indelible and iconic for a large swath of the viewing public for not only a generation of Batman moviegoers, but a huge part of the generation of people who are interested in Batman right now.

This version of Bruce is top-tier Bruce. And then we also get a Batman who all jokes about the voice aside kicks ass and has a clear purpose. This is one of the things that I love about the Nolan trilogy and one of the things that I love about Bales, Batman. He actually has an arc, an arc that is clearly established and that we understand. We move through the story and the city and the League of Shadows and more than one Rachel with him. It is time that this draft share. my dread. Christian Bales, Batman.

I feel good about this pick. Really good. Relieved, honestly. The idea of getting a subpar Batman was terrifying to me. I was hoping you were going to go for a villain. If I had had the first pick, I would have taken Bludger Stoker.

I have no problem saying that. Okay. Classic pick made by someone who hasn't seen the Batman. That's all I'll say. Oh, God. See, this is where it's tricky because part of me,

just to explain where I'm at. I'm still thinking Batman, but I don't know if I can blindly trust that Robert Patton is going to be as good as I think he's going to be. I'm very excited for this weirdo Batman. Sometimes you've got to make a leap of faith, man. Sometimes you've got to make a leap of faith.

Wait, Daniel, before you make your pick, I just want you to know Mr. Freeze, as played by Arnold Schwarzenegger, still on the board. Still available to you at number three. Oh, my God. That's tough. That would be my favorite moment in Ringer podcast history.

That wouldn't be close. After this long, dramatic pause, yeah, I'm going to go with a... Okay. No, I think I'm going to take... I'm going to let Joanna decide on her Batman first. So I'm going to take Two-Face. And I'm going to go with Aaron Eckhart's Two-Face, actually. Wow.

Whoa. Bold. Okay. I love this. I'm so excited to see what team you're about to build by starting with Aaron. Wow. Okay. Not surprised to be that you picked him over, Tom, Lee Jones. I've never liked you more than I do in this moment.

Do you want to talk to you? I'm so happy because do you want to talk, I don't want to cut you off. Do you want to talk more about To your face and why you want him here? I think he works so well in the way that he is in Dark Night. And part of that is because he balances and like really compliments Joker's performance so well. but as far as like two-faced as an actual villain himself, I would love to see the chance for him to have, you know, more of a space and be more of like the real villain behind it.

And like there's just something that's so much more realistic to me and so much more fascinating about the way that Aaron Eckhart played it in Dark Night compared to Tommy Lee Jones in Batman forever because it's just like very on the nose, you know, like him just flipping the coin and everything and laughing at it. everything and trying to just like match Jim Carrey's Ridler energy. But with with Toface having like a full like story arc to his own, I think he's like the number two Batman villain in my opinion behind Joker. So wow. That's what I'm going with. When you say, you know, something

realistic about him, do you mean the way that when he, when he takes a shot, the alcohol just pours out of his gaping facial wounds? It's just dripping down. Yeah, it's it's. I know, that's I think that the day that I learned that Tommy Lee Jones hate. I hated Jim Carrey and his antics with every fiber of his being is the day that his two-face performance ascended to like glory for me. I love watching him in that because he's just, he's struggling to be like, I made a bad decision to be in this movie. I hate my most frequency partner. But here I am anyway. I'm Tommy Lee Jones.

But I think I think Aaron Eckertz, Harvey Dent is a really interesting pick. It's a fascinating one. Yeah, Daniel made his own luck. So it's you, Joe. I assume that the way this has gone so far, your number one overall pick is still on the board here at number four. I can't believe that I get to do this

here at the end of the... And I'm on the turn, and so I'm going to pick, I'm going to start with a pair, if that's okay. But will you establish just for our... Yes. ...sake of knowing which order they're in. Yeah, it's a match set, and I didn't think I was going to get them.

But my number one pick would have been Michelle Fifer's Catwoman, and my Batman is Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne. I promise it's going to get more diverse from there in terms of what I'm drawing from. But I am of the opinion that nothing has ever been better in a Batman movie than the electric chemistry between Michelle Pfeiffer and Michael Keaton. The function that a Catwoman plays, like the Joker versus the Batman, a lot has been said about that. It's a really interesting dynamic of chaos versus rigid morality if you want to. But what I love about the catwoman is that she slinks in and out of the shadows.

You don't know which way she's going to go. She's pulling on Batman in a way the Joker. You know, he stands in rigid opposition to the Joker, but he is pulled by the cat, you know, out of his normal moral track. And, I mean, that's something to be, you know, interested in an exquisite. excited for in the Batman, but I think nothing has ever done it better. And I just mean like, Michelle Fiver's Catwoman. In addition, just the role that Catwoman plays throughout the history of Batman, she was introduced the same time as a Joker in the same comic at the very beginning of it all, like is so important. But also, what the hell Michelle Fifer's doing in that movie,

in that incredible costume? The fact that she basically reinvents the word meow, meow. Like, No one said it like that. No one has sin. I mean, Earth, the kid did some great growling, but like what Michelle Fiverr does with just the word meow, the way her costume unravels, she unravels. The way that her split personality mirrors Bruce's split personality in that film. I just, I'm delighted that I get this at the center of this movie that I'm planning. Just the draft pick you've been looking for, as Penguin would say. slight tweak to that one

the worst slide or the greatest you decide oh boy okay Joe honestly I'm happy for you this is like I feel like a really

meaningful moment for you in draft podcast history I was holding my breath great to see great to see all right run us through your your Keaton logic here oh yeah

Keaton's my favorite Batman I like bail a lot but there is something you know you want to get nuts let's get nuts about Keaton that really sells the unhinged side of

Batman and like not every Batman needs to be unhinged you know I think dark and broody works really well I think there are some ways in which the brutality of Batfleck works for me but

you know watching Keaton come off of or at the same time as Beetlejuice. Like an actor who can do Beetlejuice and Batman, and there's a little bit of chocolate and the peanut butter and both. Like, I just, I love that part of him. I think it's interesting because in Batman returns, he actually plays second fiddle to the villains,

but I still think his reactive nature in that movie is really compelling. So I'm a cute and fan. Glad you mentioned that last point. How do you defend the fact that Michael Keaton's Batman is in essence not a character in his own most famous movie? And also is not cool, which Bruce Wayne needs to be. He is definitely his own character in the first movie. Absolutely is. What about the second one?

He is Keaton. What about Batman returns? And what do we really know about his Batman or his Bruce? So little. My question is, why are you grilling me? That's the purpose of this draft. It's not just the state of all. cases. Is it jealousy? Are you mad that I got? I've been fun of Daniel's pick. No. So I can assure you I would not have been selecting Michael Keaton's Batman. I think the fact that Keaton kicked off like Batmania, it all starts with Keaton, right? Like that this is where it all begins. He is Batman for generations. What's really interesting actually, and this might just speak to my my bizarre Twitter following, but like I put up this sort of a, um,

Rochechek test on Twitter recently where I was like, if I say sexy Batman, what does that mean to you? And I was guessing that people would pick Clooney. I don't know why I just sort of thought that that would, but everyone said Keaton. And I think there is this interest. I mean, I'm not arguing. I think there's this really interesting dark allure to him.

That sticks with me. I think Batman, by his very nature, is not well. he is a very disturbed person and all of the people who have played him have either seemed sociopathic or a little like creepy and goofy and Keaton is the only one

who has been Normcore normal yeah like a little bit of a like your weird boyfriend the edgiest thing that he does is ask why the soup is cold yeah yeah and so there's something more approachable there I think people are like, I don't want to get... Do you want an approachable Batman?

I just think people don't want to turn out like Rachel. You know, they just don't want... They don't want to get blown up. I think Michael Keen possesses and his recent appearance at the SAG Awards can only underline this. Possesses by his very nature. By the very nature, a gleam in his eye that you're just like a little unsettled.

That's what I think. Okay. All right. Daniel, it's back to you. So I was honestly like really torn between Michael Keaton as well, like for my first pick. I was like torn between Keaton and and Sadboy, Robert Pattinson, Bruce Wayne in this one. Because after that, I feel like it's just a steep, steep drop off unless we're going for one of the animated choices. Wow. Tough beat here for Batfleck.

I was not picking Blackflick. that's for sure. And I think, like, I just, I love, I'm going to go with Robert Pattinson. I'll just say that first and for us. And then I'll go with my reasoning thereafter. I am blindly trusting this. I think the casting for this upcoming movie is so good. And I'm very excited just to see a completely different take on Bruce Wayne because I feel

like we have seen a lot of, like, very similar portrayals of him on screen. And he just, like, looks like, so, like, ghostly. the trailers that I've seen where it's just like he's clearly going about this like in a very different way and like I don't know I'm just like very excited excited to see what he does and I think it really

fits with the way I kind of envisioned Batman I feel like reading comics and stuff growing up in terms of this like coming from like a much like darker and like sadder place so I'm going with Robert Pattinson on this one. I think that's a good bet and like I'm really excited

to see what you all think of it once you see it. I can't wait to see it. It's such a bold choice to draft a Batman from a movie you haven't seen, but I honestly can't help but respect it. It just speaks to how you think he really does embody something elemental about what you're looking for in a Bruce and a Batman. I think he's going to crush it.

Like there's just like sometimes where I've seen him in a movie where I've just like been like, I don't know, like, like good time, for example. I love them so much in good time. And like I'm like just the fact that they, they chose him as to be like Bruce Wayne and this like I think is just like fascinating. And correct me if I'm wrong, Sean. And that's the movie that Matt Reeve says, like, that's why he picked him. That's the one.

That's the one. Nice. And there's, there's some correlation between those two characters. I'm happy with it. I see, I see your eyes over there, I'm out, but I'm happy with this. No, I can't wait to see to see Pattinson as Batman. I think he's going to be great. I love the pick.

It's bold. It's bold. I love a bold draft pick. I just want to clarify really quickly that my cat one pick is actually in the plus one category, not in the villain category. Okay. Interesting. Okay.

I had some questions about catwoman's provenance in the stories. I think she can. I think she's believed. What she's deemed as. Yeah. I think it probably varies portrayal to portrayal. You could certainly make the case for Fyfer's version as a villain, but obviously also as a plus one pick.

So, okay. Good, good point of clarity there, Joe. All right. Sean, you're up. Mal, you're up. Oh, I'm up. That's right. I'm ready to select my villain here in the second round.

And I'm delighted. I have to say absolutely delighted. I was really worried that this pick would be the second villain off the board and I would not have a chance to make this dream selection. But I do. I do. And when you all understand the depth of your failure for allowing me, to make this selection.

When it is done, the draft is ashes. Then you have my permission to lose. I'm selecting Tom Hardy's Bain from the Dark Night Rises, and I do it with joy in my heart. I do it gladly.

I think that Tom Hardy's Bain is genuinely one of the top-tier, iconic Batman film villains. It is so, such a weird, heightened performance, but in a way that makes it lasting, in a way that makes it indelible. You hear one of those quotes,

and you remember what it felt like to see that movie for the first time. It ports you not only into the character, but into that film and into the world, into that arc that we have gone through across those three films with that Bruce, with that Batman, with that Gotham,

with that League of Shadows. Tom Hardy's Bane connects the story. in a way that I think is really underrated and kind of an amazing accomplishment inside of that movie. The physicality of the role, we have some of the best

and most harrowing Batman fight sequences with Bain. I mean, the backbreaking moment, quite literally, the back breaking moment is an all-time Batman movie moment. Like, it's one of the most memorable.

And when he says, ah, yes, I was wondering what would break first. Steve, going to need an effect on my voice here, I guess. Your spirit, where your body crunch. Very few moments across Batman movies can match something like that, truly. All-time quotes, all-time fight sequences, a connection to other key villains like Roz, Talia, League of Shadows, somebody who on Moors are a hero. That's one of the keys to a great villain. You have to disrupt

fundamentally the hero individually and what the hero is trying to protect. And while I said and acknowledged that I would have also taken Heath Ledger's Joker first, I think that clearly is the number one picking this category. I think that Tom Hardy's Bain and the plot that he is a part of ultimately disrupts Batman

and what Batman is trying to protect and fight for more fully than any other villain. Thank you. That was a very passionate speech that is like just deeply wrong. Yeah. I stand behind it fully. What a folly and raised to pick

to pick Christian Bales Batman, truly a popular pick, and then throw Tom Hardy's Bain on top of it. People don't like the Dark Night Rises. I think that's a, that's a miss though. I think people think Bain is like a memorable character,

separate from the movie. They think he's a great meme. He's become a wonderful joke. Yes. No, not a joke. A reference. Because he's, a totem inside of this fictional universe, a touchstone for all of us.

Take control of your draft, Mary. I have control of it. It's fine. Honestly, I love Bain, too. I just didn't like the way he kind of went out in the movie. With humanity, showing that even the villains have a heart and can shed a tear. I think that was the one flaw of that movie. Like, when the twist of, like, Talia Ghul, I thought they could have done that a lot better.

And I feel like once she kind of becomes that. main villain in the end of it. I feel like Bain like loses a lot of like his like presence, I feel like in the movie. I think that's part of his achievement and power ultimately is that the twist. No, I'm serious. The twist doesn't land as fully because we're so much more invested in Bain than in Tanya because he stole the movie. If your best argument is that Talia is worse than Bain, then that's not my best argument. That was the 97th argument that I just made in response to a point that Daniel made.

I feel like the ground of the stadium is crumbling underneath. you and you're arguing here. As long as Heinz Ward is not still standing at the end. Good. Good. All right. Fenrock. I got two picks. You're on the turn. So you've all got your Batman, right? And so the sacrifice that I made by taking Heath Ledger is I had to get the runt of the litter in the Batman.

So I'm not going to take a Batman right now because I don't need a Batman. What would be the benefit of that? You sure? What if all of us decide to take a second Batman and enter a multiverse? Yeah, you could do that. That's not happening. Do it with our wild card and you end up with nothing. I'm not going to do that.

I would encourage you guys to do that. That sounds great. People will look at your drafts and be utterly baffled as to why you would do that. And even if you did do it, I'll still figure out a way to get a Batman I won. Sean can make Clooney work, I think. Yeah. So I'm going to go with some other categories. The first category I'm going to go with is Gotham.

And I'm going with Tim Burton's Gotham, which I think is the best most beautifully rendered Gotham. The Baroque Gothic design. the absurdist quality to the city, the sort of heavily Weimar Republic, German expressionist cinema influence on those movies. I just think that both of those movies, to Joanna's point, are extraordinary acts of design and eccentricity.

And I really love them. So that would be my pick for that category. Next one's tricky, because it can't say too much about it. And I've been thinking a lot about Catwoman. Shit. Damn it. Yeah.

And what Catwoman means to these films? And I'll say this. This is devastating for me. This is the pick of the draft that hurts the most. I'm pissed right now. I'm going to do what you don't want me to do Mallory. But I just want to say, I think that Anne Hathaway is extremely underrated as Catwoman. I do too.

She's great. In a better movie, that would have been an iconic performance. and the Dark Night Rise is extremely flawed. And when you see the Batman, you realize even more so how far afield Nolan, I think, went from the original mission of those movies and how much he kind of lost the plot and telling those stories. But, you know, I'm an admitted Anne Hathaway,

defender and lover, and I think she's dynamite. And so under normal circumstances, if I had not just seen the Batman, I would have strongly considered her as my plus one. But Zoe Kravitz, like, it really, it worked. It really lived up for me. I was kind of shocked by how good I thought it was. And I'm a fan of hers,

and I thought it was very smart casting. But her Selena Kyle is great. And the early reports of their chemistry is accurate. There's heat between the two of them. So my plus one is Selena Kyle, as portrayed by Zoe Kravitz and the Batman. If you want to have a good time, just cue up the Michael Jekino score,

which is on Spotify, and play the Catwoman theme for yourself. And you'll just, be like transported to a smoky PI office and the Fem Fatal has like, is come slinking in. Oh, it's so good. I'm really upset right now. I badly wanted to select Zoe with this next pick.

And again, I have not seen that movie and do not need to have seen the movie to know that she is sensational. It's like perfect casting. I just, I know for sure that she will be one of my favorite parts of Batman cinematic history immediately. I'm really jealous of the pick. She's really great. I'll say the one demerit is she has a couple of real groaners of dialogue that she has to deliver in the movie,

which I would say is unlike Michelle Pfeiffer and Joe's pick, who is basically perfect. Like everything that Michelle Pfeiffer says in that movie is awesome. And she gets to embody the character in a different way. That character is nuts. So this Selena Kyle is the brilliant cat burglar that we have come to love

from the comics and that is a really cool character and I'm glad that that character got to be rendered on screen but she has to be a vessel for some exposition and motivational stuff that I'll be curious to hear what you guys think about that on Monday's show, Mal and Joanna because there's she has to carry some water. I will say there's a lot of, there are a few heavy exposition lifts in the film and watching Zoe do it as

by far the most pleasant experience. I would watch her carry water or anything else. I love her. She's the best. I also like and again, I think this is something you could see in this, in the trailers, like she's long nails.

It's not, it's not claws. She's just got long nails and they're great. So love it. Now you're up. Well, not so fast. All the praise for the Zoe pick.

I feel compelled to, I feel compelled to critique the Gotham selection, not the pick that you made necessarily, but where you made it. I think that that's akin to picking like a kicker in the second or third round of a fantasy draft. You just didn't need to do it there. Why?

Well, like I said, you guys all have your Batman and your villain, and I don't have a pick for five consecutive picks. So it didn't really matter whether I took it second or third. It was going to be one of my two, one of my picks. So it's a good. See, the question that you asked at the beginning of the exercise about how all these things fit together. You think that Heath Ledger's Joker, Zoe's Catwoman, you see them in Tim Burton's Gotham? Legitimately, yes.

I think that's part of what I'm trying to do. Not worried about the soot, just completely covering the scars on the Joker's face to the point where he can't do his little, you want to know how I got these scars bit? Wouldn't be able to see the scars. Too much so much so. No concern? With no disrespect to your strategy so far having Bail and Bain reunited and to Joe's strategy thus far of having Michael Keaton and Catwoman.

I already saw those movies. I'm making a new movie. You know, I'm, I'm stretching the boundaries here and creating a new Batman experience for all of us. I hear that, and that's a good argument. My only counter in defense of my picks is I'm making the sequel that we deserved. The sequel they half promised us and never gave us. Wow. I love it.

Okay. I'm up. It's already tough here. I really wanted Zoe. Boy. Okay. I have a few different picks that I'm toying with

in the moment here, including just going all in on selecting Batman. Sean can't, but nobody else seems aligned with me on that strategy. It only works if we're a united front. I believe you had shit all over my choices. I might be inclined to lie with you.

No, no, no. It's not, I'm shitting all over everyone's choices. It's the spirit of the exercise, you know? I know. I've praised where I agree. I've critiqued where I don't, as have we all. I'm just saying if you were playing, if you're trying to play Survivor and build alliances, this is not the way to do it.

As I've stated many, many, many times. I would be the first one voted out on Survivor, I'm sure of it. In part because I can't play well with others, in part because I get really cranky when I haven't had a snack for like 45 minutes. I wouldn't not do well out there. Okay. I'm ready to make my pick, and I want to get ahead of a critique

that I think you all will throw my way, which is that I'm too firmly embedded in the Dark Knight trilogy, in the Nolan trilogy, with my picks because I'm making another pick right here from that trilogy. But I'm doing it because that is the best swath of Batman movies that we have gotten.

Maybe we will get better ones in the future, but we have not to this point. And I think that the key components and core ingredients of those movies that make them hum, that make them classic, that make them movies we will all love to return to time and time again are timeless. And they work well on their own and they work well together. And so I feel ultimately I am making my draft and my movie stronger by keeping these picks, at least to this point, grouped. I will be selecting as my plus one. not a an Alfred

not a commish not even a love interest I will be selecting the true secret weapon in the plus one category Morgan Freeman's Lucius Fox from the Dark Night trilogy

I thought you were about to go JGL and I was like I mean don't roll an album for the end of the pot I am super bumped super bumped but not right here I think it is difficult to overstate what, first of all, just how wonderful Morgan's performance is as Fox.

Truly incredible, a joy to behold, no matter how many times you've seen it. But how essential he is. How much he unlocks for our hero. How much he unlocks for the mission. Do I love an Alfred? Do I respect an Alfred I do? Is it possible that I will take an Alfred later with my wild card? It is.

It is. I wouldn't rule it out. But I don't need to now. And that's the key. Because Lucius is everything. He's a friend. He's an ally. He's the guy in the chair. He's an inventor. He's witty. He's got the snark of the tumbler. You wouldn't be interested in that. He knows the history. And that allows him to anticipate the future. He positions my back. Batman to succeed, and thusly, he positions my movie to succeed. I'm delighted here. Absolutely delighted. You know, Lucius once said to Bruce, and I'll now say to you, if you don't want to tell me exactly what you're doing with your draft, when I'm asked, I don't have to lie, but don't think of me as an idiot. I make this pick with pride. I feel great about it. I think my favorite part of any maldraffic is the inevitable line read that comes with it. I love a club.

Might be out of them for the rest of the pod, but when you draft, Lucius, do you get all the tech that comes with him? I'm really glad you asked because it's a huge, huge, huge part of the reason to make the pick. He unlocks so much for you, literally the arsenal, right? Everything in Applied Sciences. Who's the one person? The one person who could access that, but also who knows how it works. I don't even have to worry about Battec now because Lucius gives me everything I need. Not only for one movie, but for three.

I am now set. I'm set. This is, Daniel's nodding. He knows I nailed it. Well, this is a question I want to throw the rest of the drafters. Thank you, Daniel. Is that, is that fair that Elish's that she gets all the tech with the Lucius pick? I'm prepared for the outcome here either way, because if the ruling is no, which I don't think it should be, but if it is, Lucius is savvy enough and capable of, he's inventive enough and capable of problem solving that he can come up with anything. Like that cell phone sonar attack, that was just something, that wasn't even something that Bruce had asked for or was expecting.

Lucius just gave it to him on the fly and then look what it turned into. Now it turned into something alarming, ultimately. But, you know, we live and we learn and we grow together. So even if the armory is not full, I know that he can ultimately, on his own, fill it back up. Fill it back up, exactly. Sean or Daniel, do you have any objections to sneaking an entire arsenal of tech in with a character choice? I mean, getting the Batmobile is pretty big one, if that's also included. Like, as, I mean, it is technically in his arsenal, right? But I feel like the Batmobile is in themselves is, like, such an iconic and, like, important part of, you know, what makes a Batman movie.

Well, what do you all rule? Does the tech come with him or not? And again, if not, I'm fine with it and stand behind the pick because the thing that he possesses, it's not a plate of armor. It's knowledge. That's the true superpower. Knowledge. I've never seen Sean make that face before. I think we need a ruling.

I don't remember this being out. I want to leave it out to the council here. If none of the actual items come with him, it doesn't matter because he knows how to go build them. Steve. Hey, what's going on? Knows how to run a company too. The council has convened and we made a ruling answer

is the tech does not come with Luceus. Fine. Guess what? We get to build something new together. A new visual palette. That's great news. It helps differentiate my movie

from the existing trilogy. I'd just like to thank the council for its work, you know, for its care and its candor, its thoughtfulness. Look, we talked about it. We deliberated for a little bit on the side

and we just ultimately came to the conclusion that it just can't go down like that. If there's one thing that Lucius Fox knows, it's how to work the boardroom. So he's ready for this. And so am I. Unlike the corruption at the core of every Gotham, you know, tribunal. This one seems like a fair and balanced body. Thank you.

Mel, I just like to ask you, why are you making a movie we've seen? I love those movies. It's my prerogative to pull the elements from them that I think are successful. And I will craft a new story and a new tale around them. And, you know, other people are doing that, too, like Joanna. I only made two choices so far. I've only made three. I've only made three.

Yeah, carpet full of stars. Daniel, are you prepared to rattle the cage here to make a bold choice? I'm really interested to see Daniel's next pick. I think I'm about to do exactly, like, staying too much in line with, like, the Christopher Nolan trilogy is just the best, you know? I already have one from there, and I think I'm going to go again. Because I think, you know, since I already have Two-Face and I have Batman, I think the last crucial piece to that triumvirate there is Commissioner Gordon.

And to me, right now, at least, I love Jeffrey, right? So I think he's going to be awesome. But Gary Oldman is just so perfect to me as Commissioner Gordon. And I think that's something they do so beautifully in the Dark Night, and in like a lot of comics, too, just explore. like the different sides of the law that all three of them are on and like how they kind of work together like they're just like such an interesting team and in comics like long Halloween and like I think they did it really well in the dark night and I would love to see it

you know and in a different way and like really blown out in a in a larger way and Gary Oldman again it's just he's just like he is Commissioner Gordon to me so that is that is my pick did you know that at the recent fan screening for the Batman they gave out copies along Halloween to the audience. That's awesome. Does that get you excited? That gets me excited, yeah. I noticed, too, I was rewatching.

It's funny you mentioned that. I was rewatching the trailers, and it's one of the trailer ends with a shot of a few comics, and that's like central. It was like that, like, ego. Year one, yeah, which is really interesting. It reminded me of also, like, when they, like, the dual shock PlayStation controllers at the end of it.

I don't know why they do that sometimes. I feel like Warner Brothers does that. Like, I was like, All right. I guess it's going to be, these are going to be influences in the movie, though. So it's like those are definitively the three major influences, those three runs. Okay, that's what Matt Reeves was saying to you. Cool. Your one ego and the long Halloween.

Interesting. Okay. That's exciting. I don't know. I'm very exciting. I can't wait to see this movie. Yeah. Oh, boy. Okay. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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Joe, you're on the turn again here. Yeah, time for me to emerge from the shadows of the Burtonverse. We have established our core duo and now we will be spreading out. So the first thing I would pick is my villain. I'll be joining you all in Nolan Town for one of my favorite, I think wildly underrated villains and really belongs in the center. The only one to survive the Nolan trilogy, it is Killian Murphy's scarecrow, Jonathan Crane. a performance I love, a character I love,

and is very central to the kind of movie that I want to build. I don't know if you want me to go into my vision for this movie right now, but I might as well. There's a great episode of Batman in the animated series that always stuck with me, which actually features the Manda Hatter as the central villain, but pertains to dream, which is locks Bruce in this dream space

where he has to sort of fight his way out of this surreal dream scape that the Mad Hatter is created for him. I think there's huge potential for the scarecrow and his like fear toxins and all that sort of stuff to give us a surreal, scary, mind-gamy, drug-induced film that I would love to see a Keaton Batman navigate. and I'm thinking like Legion at its weirdest or Wanda Vision at his weirdest where we could just get like really weird explorations and allow us to dig

into the psychology of Batman, which every Batman movie is trying to do anyway, but just really get into the weird, you know, without hiring Nicole Kidman to psychoanalyze him, like get into like the weird split personalities. And what does Bruce actually want? You know, sort of similar to Wanda Vision, like, does,

And this has happened in the comics before, but does Bruce want a normal life or does he want to keep up the fight? Like that sort of push and pull and throwing a Selena Kyle into the mix. Because you see that in Batman Returns, this sort of like, this is a life I could have, but we can't because we both need to keep on fighting. So that temptation of a life I think would be really fun and interesting.

So, yeah, Jonathan Crane. Killeen Murphy, my guy. Are you making, are you setting out in your vision for your, your film here to make one movie or multiple movies? One movie. The, the third in the Keaton trilogy that we should have gotten. So no concern about the fact that in, you know, the second and third films he's just, you know, a bureaucrat in essence. Just sitting there handing out, sentencing, walk out on the ice. Oh, cray?

Yeah. No, I mean, I guess that's true that I need to. I think that he could. But like the feroxin, you're concentrating it all into one movie. No, no, it's true. I'm looking at the first one, but I think the spirit of his unhinged, like I think any second, you give him a chance, he'll jump down off that bench and put the burlap back on his head and be spraying people with toxins, any chance he gets. So I don't see his part two and part three persona as wildly different from his part one persona. do you know he's not a character that evolves that's what I'll say

and then I'm going to follow on Sean's footsteps and take a Gotham here just because I'm not actually worried about the challenge on my wildcard or bat tech categories intriguing and I'm going to take this is actually why I was why I was not worried about spoilers and why I was fighting for the Batman I'm taking Matt Reeves Gotham which I absolutely loves one of my favorite parts about the movie it's he shot a lot in Liverpool so it doesn't look like a New York or Chicago. It looks like something else entirely.

It never stops raining in this movie, and it's just incredible. And as much as I like the Burton Blacks and Blues, the Reeves browns and reds and oranges, just give something else entirely that I think would fit with a sort of scarecrow, scary. a Batman movie. So yeah, Matt Reeves, Gotham, going on my draft. Amazing. I'll just simply repeat that I cannot wait to see this movie. Okay. So everyone, other than me, has taken a pick from the Batman. And you would have if Zoe had been on the table for you. With euphoric delight. With jubilation, I would have.

Okay. Sean, any notes from you, a person who was seeing the Batman on the Matt Reeves Gotham selection? I spent a lot of time trying to figure out where it was shot while I was watching it because I didn't know very much about the production. Because there are times when it looks like New York City and there are times when it looks like Toronto. And there are times when it looks like a European city of some sort. And they did a good job of blending, I think. Kind of like moving pieces around. so you're always kind of guessing.

I think that it's different in that if, you know, this is true of the whole movie, it just feels more real. And that is obviously over that grounded approach is very purposeful. And I think once you do something like that, then every choice has to feel very specific. So you're getting stuck into the world

as opposed to if you're Joe Schumacher and you're like, what if everything was chrome and neon and glittering and ridiculous? And, you know, it becomes more absurd. So I really liked it. I think it's a good pick. I'm really excited for you guys to see the Batman now that we're doing this exercise

because it really forces you to kind of deconstruct all of the choices that all the filmmakers made to make these movies in the first place. Love it. Okay. Daniel, back to you. I'm so hesitant to take another Christopher Nolan. Don't be afraid. Don't let them talk you out of it.

Follow your heart. It's just stay true to yourself. It's just so good. And I think where I'm at now, Now, you know, for Batman, for Bruce Wayne, his romances are fleeting, you know, his love is fleeting. So, but the thing that is eternal is Alfred. You know, that is his true family. I have no idea how Andy Circus is going to be as it.

So I'm not picking him. I'm just saying I'm very excited to see it, but I have no idea what that's going to be. I'm going to go with Michael Cain's Alfred because he was just like, he's just so perfect as Alfred. And like, although I have issues with Dark Night Rises, Like that that like scene where like they're like kind of parting ways is so heartbreaking. Like I feel like the first time I saw that in theaters, I was just like tearing up like when they're on the stairs. And Alfred like, you know, Mike Payne breaks the news that he or like talks about the letter that Rachel left behind.

Like he brings so much to the character that I feel like is so crucial to who Bruce Wayne is and like what what like Batman is. he's like his rock. So, Alfred, it is for me. So he's your wild card. He's my, yeah,

yeah, sorry, he's my, he's my wild card. Yeah. Michael Keynes, Alfred really likes to play God, you know?

It's like, I'll just decide to not give you this letter. Then I'll decide to tell you about it in your moment of supreme vulnerability. Yeah. Every, every time I watch the dark night again,

I'm just like, why wouldn't you just like tuck it away and not, not tell him about it? But better drama. Daniel, if you set out to go to a cafe in France, you know, and just take a little sip, who would you, who would you be looking for? Who would you be hoping to see one day at that other table? What an ending to the trilogy, though, you know?

Just a little, the little nod, like the... It's great. Is it Phrenet or like an espresso? What is he drinking? A little cocktail or is it a little... I think it's like a little espresso. If you told me it was Frenet, which I absolutely love. Yeah, you're a big, yeah.

Is it a change? Dark Night Rises? I would have gotten infinitely more jealous of Daniel's pick if Alfred were sipping for net. It is for net. It is for net. Yeah. Oh, Daniel, well done. Joe, one day we'll split a bottle.

You may. John, you have to rethink your entire stance on that trilogy and that movie. Hell that you know that. Sheesh. Can I take a moment to talk about Alfred's for a second? Please. I don't have Alfred on my list, so I just want to talk about Alfred for second. First of all, I love Jeremy Irons, Alfred, and I really wish that he had been in a better franchise.

Yeah. Like, that's, that's a character I really wish I had seen in movies that I liked better. And number two, just shout out to Michael Goff for being in, you know, straight through those early Batman films as the Batman's changed. Yeah, the one constant. Desmond had Penny and we had him, you know? Yeah. I almost picked him, but I really didn't want to, like, stay to linger too long in Burtonland. But, yeah, Michael Goff.

What a legend. The Jeremy Irons Alfred is great. genuinely it's so cool it's a good pick I think he's one of the best parts of those films I'm definitely the mosted down on that trilogy out of everybody

on this draft I don't know that that's true I'm pretty Joanna's like how dare you no I'm just not as high as most people are is what I will say but like you know there are elements that I absolutely love

like Keith Ledger or Killian Murphy but like overall It doesn't have the same grip on me, and it might be because Sean and I are a little older. That might be the case if we had our pre-nolan Batman experience, you know, sort of thing. We're clearly big Burton people. And if you're a big Burton person, it's a different, the bar is different. Anyhow. I'm surprised that Michael Keynes Alford made it this far, actually.

I think that's a really good value pick at this point in the draft, Daniel. I agree. Love Michael King. Yeah, because he was like so much emotion in that character. Absolutely. Tons. that you're not getting from Katie Holmes. Bless.

Lord bless. Man, I got to say, no matter how many times I see those movies, every time I watch Batman begins, I'm like, oh, yeah. Katie's here. Oh, yeah. Wow, how about that? Okay. Back to me, huh?

Hmm. I have selected my Batman, my villain, and my plus one. I'm ready to go with my bat tech here. I'm a little surprised no one's dipped into the bat tech category given how inextricable the bat tech is from the experience. Now, again, we stated earlier, the suit comes with the Batman, but as all of you reinforced during this exercise, you don't, and all the other stuff doesn't come with other picks, right? You got to get it for yourself. And there's nothing more essential for a Batman and a Batman movie than one of the most iconic. things in all of pop culture, the Batmobile.

And so here at last, I am selecting my Batmobile. I am breaking out of the Nolan trilogy, in case you're wondering. And I am with a jubilation in my heart and shock that this pick is available, selecting from the 1966 Batman. Hell yeah. The most incredible Batmobile ever crowsy. Classy, timeless style. This could be in a Batman movie,

and it will be, it will be in my Batman movie. This could be in a Fast and the Furious movie. This could be in a James Bond movie. This could be on the impending season of, season four of F1 Drive to Survive. Like, we could see this on the track at Monaco, and it would fit perfectly, because it is that exceptional,

a fit for any Batman and any movie that came after when it entered our lives, obviously also in the other Batman installments around this time. But Adam West's Ford concept card, the Lincoln Futura, that black and red. I mean, it's the color scheme that would fit so well with the impending Reeves film, right? That pop of red, the piping around it.

You've got that great twin cockpit design. So whoever's hanging out with my Batman at a given moment, whichever plus one is along for the ride, Should a Robin emerge at some point? Should a boy wonder enter my story? There's a seat. There's a seat right there. Tons of tech.

Some of the weirdest and most surreal tech on any Batman bill and in any Batman movie. And it feels like so firmly comic booky in its nature. And I'm happy to like balance that very real grounded actual car chassis. and Car Body with that really like surreal bat radar bat dust

bat magnet bat zuka bat ram bat repellent spray element that feels just pulled right from the pages

of a comic panel delighted by this pick I'm so happy that 66 Batman is getting represented in this draft yeah that makes me really happy

but I am wildly trying to imagine a Bain versus 66 Batmobile movie that's part of what makes it great

I mean, can you not see Christian Bales Batman cruising around in this? It's like we already see him driving around in sports cars all the time. And I like the idea of, you know, to Sean's very rude question earlier about why I was trying to recreate a movie we've already seen. Here's one of the counterpoints to that, right? My guy's got his Tumblr, which I love. He's got his bat pod, which I love. He's got that kind of like heavy military industrial complex aura around him at all times.

and he needs a little more, not just when he's Bruce Wayne, but also when he's Batman, a little bit more of that sporty, classy energy, this is part of how I reconcile that two-haves element of all Batman stories. This is part of how I bring my Batman whole into one sense of self with the 66 Lincoln Futura. Oh, great car, incredible car.

I just want to say I didn't pick it, but I think the Batmobile and the Roos Batman is maybe my favorite. Amazing. It's awesome. It's a muscle car. I actually haven't seen it. It's a muscle car. Wow.

It's really cool to see it even just in the trailers when it like flies through the flames. And then he uses it like a battering ram to take out and hang out. And that's again, that's just in the trailers. I forgot that was in the trailer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I do remember it now. It's awesome.

And it looks, again, haven't seen the movie. But it just seems like the perfect choice because you can really like see him like working on it in his garage. You know, making it at the beginning of his arc. I love that one. I expect that to be taken in this draft. Except it can't be because you've all already made your one pick for that movie. Oh, well. Tough beat for the Dodge.

Oh, well. It's very loud. It's a very loud bad movie. Love a rumble. Sean, you're up and you're on the swing here. I'm on the swing. I'm still, I'm candidly mystified by your last pick, Mel, but I love you. Are you kidding?

I just. You don't appreciate a classic? I just. You could have, the Batman Batmobile, the new Batmobile. It was sitting right there. Yeah, it's a great one. It's a Plymouth Barracuda and it's a fucking Batmobile. This is one of the coolest cars in the history of movies.

I consider taking it, except I took the number one pick on my Battec category instead, which was still here near the end of our draft. The thing that I love about the 66 Batmobile is that it like wobbles. Do you know what I mean? Like, don't the Finns wobble as it goes? It's a piece of junk. If you need a vehicle to get you to the Batcopter. so that you can climb down a rope

and spray repell and on a shark. This is the Batmobile for you. I do love that sequence. I do love that movie. People haven't seen the 66th Batman movie. It's awesome. It's so fun. So good.

Every villain is perfect. That's great. Okay. So I got two picks here. I've got three categories left. I still don't need a Batman as far as I can tell. Maybe that'll come back to bite me, but we'll see.

I'm taking some risks. Bat Tech. I'm going to keep the Tim Burton Batmobile, which I believe to be the ultimate Batmobile, in the Tim Burton Gotham, so that those two feel, you know, they feel like they're speaking with each other. That is still, I had that Batmobile as a toy when I was a child.

I was seven years old when the Tim Burton film was released, so you can imagine my excitement when that movie came along. And just the design and the sort of like, the skeletal almost like rib-like chassis of that that cars so cool remains so cool it's a bit ridiculous in the face of the matt reeves batmobile which as i said is sick like there's a car chase and the badman that is fucking awesome um but my favorite batmobile is still burton so i'm going to go burton there and i think the i think the gear and the tech inside of that is pretty fun you know there's like the like the oil slick that it

There's the foot. The foot. Who has the time when you're a fighting crime for a three-point turn? Not Batman. Not Batman. The grappling hook, you know, that he shoots out of it. That's a pretty fun one. Okay.

And then I'm taking Danny DeVito as a penguin is my wild card. Holy shit. What a wild card. Oswald Cobbopat, the abandoned orphan king of Gotham. Lord of the Underground simply one of the most disgusting characters in movie history Yep

Bleeding a bilious blood Biting the heads off of fish Yep Frankly like He's like the original like hashtag me too Of the Batman franchise also The way that he treats Catwoman is fucking foul

He's awful And he would make I think a good counterpart You know a lot of the Batman movies There's a villain And then there's like a sub villain You know, there's a person who is like the agent of chaos, and then there's a person who's like right behind them. You know, in the dark night, we have, of course, have the Joker,

but we also have Two-Face in Batman Returns. We have the Penguin and we have Catwoman. There's always this like playing the back thing. So imagine a world in which the penguin is waiting in the wings as the Joker wreaks havoc across Gotham. I feel like that would be a fun movie. So I'll go with the Penguin. And this is why I love the 66 Batman because you've got the Ridler, Catwoman,

the Joker and the penguin is an embarrassment of Riches in that movie. Just hanging out. Yeah, Defedo's disgusting. Hanging out looking through a subscope. Burgess Merritt of this penguin is also super underrated. I think Gorshens' Riddler is underrated. Boy. Okay, I just...

The absolute gall of you asking me earlier why I was investing so heavily in one swath of movies when you've made three of five picks. for one franchise. Yeah. The best Batman franchise. Tim Burton's two Batman films. Okay. We're nearing the end.

We're down to, what, seven total final picks, right? Sean has only one selection left. The final pick of this draft will be a Batman. Incredible. It's amazing.

I love it. It's smart. It's really good. I never would have thought of that. I love it. I love it. Okay. So I can either choose

here my Gotham or my wild card. I'm going to wait on wild card, obviously, definitionally the deepest and most flexible category. I'm going to select my Gotham here. Oh, I wonder which one you're going to take. Surprise of literally no one. In a Christopher Nolan movie? I'm so excited.

Sean asked me earlier. I will just like to repeat why I'm making a movie we've already seen. And here I proved you definitively that I am not. Because I will be placing. Oh. Christian Bales, Batman. Tom Hardy's Bain, Morgan Freeman's Lucius Fox, and the 66 Batmobile in.

I'd say drum roll, please, but maybe more appropriately, the sound of satisfyingly clicking two blocks together. Lego! Unhinged. Unhinged. This is one of the best moments of my wife. I can't believe I get to bring this to the screen. What a gift, what a joy.

What a creatively energizing time. Lego Gotham is so fucking cool. And perhaps more crucially, it is limitless. There is nothing that I cannot forge, nothing that my characters cannot forge inside of Lego. Gotham. It is there for my Lucius and any other inventive figures in my film to play around with, to toy around with, to experiment with, to tweak, to suit the needs of the moment. Sometimes characters in comic book movies feel a little too anchored, a little too rigid, a little too fixed.

Not my Gotham. It can change whatever I need it to, right? I'm so excited about this. I honestly can't believe it. This is going to be a really fucking weird movie. And then, guess what? Added bonus? Merch. Everybody's going to want to buy shit from my movie. And that's why the studios are going to give me money to make another one. I might never stop making movies. I have a really important question. This goes back to like the earlier question Daniel asked about like, if I pick a Lego character, are they a human or are they a Lego? And you're like, they're a Lego. Yes, that's right. My characters will be on Legos, walking through Legos. I have a question is. I have a question of I have a question of scale.

That's part of what's going to make it so awesome. We're building it all. So if a Lego figurine is in a live action movie, is that Lego figurine? Human size? Human size? Yeah. Yes. Okay.

But I'm not picking Lego characters. No, I know. Well, I was just saying the rules work on the other side. So if you put Bain, Tom Hardy's hulking Bain in your plastic city, it's going to be it's going to be great. Size of a city. Okay. Yeah.

Because it's going to be a massive, massive Lego Gotham. And we're going to get to watch Bain grumble and roar around it. Imagine the football sequence in Lego Gotham. The little bricks coming up one by one. Imagine Lucius and my Bruce Wayne just, you know, chatting about ideas, brainstorming what they want to build next. And then they take out a bunch of Lego bricks. And they make it.

Mal, I have an important question as well. Are you okay? Yeah, I feel great right now. To go from the highs. To go from like the secure high of a Christian Bail Batman to Lego Gotham is a, yeah. It's a wild ride down. I'm glad you said high because I feel, I feel high. This is a natural high.

DC, you got to make a pick, man. You got to step in now and make your pick. You got to put an end to this spiel. It's great. I'm just in awe of this. I love it. It's genius. She went full Joker.

Number one picking a draft, right? It's only fitting. It's only fitting. Oh, man. The last thing I'll say is that a lot of Gotham's, as you both noted already, feel like stale and generic. Gotham has to be a character in the movie. Gotham has to have real personality and a sense of singularity. And my Lego Gotham will have that, I assure you.

Go ahead, Daniel. Two picks left. Let's see. Two categories left. Yes. Gotham and Battech. Gotham and Battech. I googled the new Batmobile as we were talking and it looks incredible.

So part of me is convinced by that. But there's a lot of Batmobiles in here. I don't know. Part of me wants to switch up the field here a little bit. I'm torn between that and I love Tim Burton's batwing, honestly. Daniel, if it helps make your decision easier for you, you cannot select the Patenson Reeves Batmobile

because you've already made one selection from that movie and that's the one movie that we're only allowed one pick for so. Okay, easy.

Then I'm going to go with Tim Burton's Batwing because if it's not going to be the Batmobile I'm not going to do Christopher Nolan's Batmobile after I've done

three other Christopher Nolan things. I just won't do it. It's a shame if no one takes the Tumblr. I'll just say that. I'm going to switch it up because

after the the Batmobile. I love the Batwings. And my pick was going to be the Burton's Batmobile because I think that's the best Batmobile that there's been. So that was a great pick by Sean.

But there's just something like it's just all of the tech that they really had in those like Tim Burton those Tim Burton movies. I just love so much. And the Batwing's definitely up there for me. So that's my pick there. Any notes?

From the Burton contingent? That was weak, Daniel. That was weak, bro. Wow. I love how literal it is, though. It's like it just looks like a big battering in the sky. That's true. I do like that.

There's something that I love the realism of the Nolan's like Batmobile and his version of the Batwing. But there's just something so goofy and so silly. It might not fit with my vision with the brooding nature of the Robert Pattinson and the two-faced. Like, our pats is... Runny eye makeup. But it's just such a... It's such an iconic vehicle to me. And I'm happy with it.

I'm sticking by it. Okay. Me? Joe, I have your... Let's finish this up. Your final two picks. Okay, so my question is... Actually, no.

I'm just going to go with my choice. choices. One of them might be a little redundant, but I'm not mad about it. Okay, so bat tech. The reason that the bat tech is even a category is because of this one scene in Burton's Batman when Jack Nicholson's Joker asks where he gets those wonderful toys. The thing that inspires that is the bat grapple. Bat grapple is how Batman swings around, how he bats around. I'm picking the back grapple. I love it. I think it's iconic for the character. What is your, what are you doing, Mallory? What is your face? I'm just, I'm wondering, do you need to take a back grapple? Like, or do we think that that's one of the bits of tech that kind of we can expect to come with our suit?

That's like utility belt core. What you're saying utility belts? Yeah. Okay. That's fine. But no, you say, I already have it. No, no, no. If you say I already have it, then fine, fine. No, I'm just, I'm asking. Do you think it's a necessary selection? Then I'm going to take, then for my nightmare. A lot of this is in the dark movie. I'm going to take the bat sonar lenses from the dark night. And I just think it's cool tech.

I love, you know, leaning into the bat of it all. So it's bat sonar lenses for me for bat tech. And then wild card. Again, this might seem redundant, but is key to my story. So I'm going to do it anyway. My wild card is Arkham Asylum. We're going to set a lot of

this movie in Arkham Asylum. So that is my, that's my wild card. I'm so jealous of that. That didn't nick her to me. That's great. Shit. Mal withholding praise. Yeah.

Well, I know, I guess I actually think it's worth us to discuss it. I have a similar question about the grappling hook. Like, do you need to pick an Arkham or does an Arkham come with your Gotham? Or does it come with my, my Matry's Gotham? That was my question. It might be redundant, but it is, I just want to make sure that people understand that That archimisalism is a key part of

It gives us a better sense of what the movie is too I think that should be allowed. Yeah, yeah. The specificity of it is nice. Because I think like there's like some movies where I feel like they'll like show it very briefly. Right. But it's a central element. If it's a central element, I think that's like worth a wildcard. It's so fun.

We should, don't move on too quickly from the grappling hook thing. Is that in that utility belt? Is it coming with a suit or does it need to be selected separately? What does everyone think? She went to the bat zone. I know, but I don't want to encourage a switch if it's not a necessary one. Where did we land? on that as a group. That's the way I kind of assumed it too. Like if it's in like his

his like suit. It kind of depends because sometimes it comes out of the suit and sometimes it comes out of like a little gun that he has. Yeah. You know what I mean? Maybe it's a, what do you think? Is it a separate thing? Does it a gun sit in a holster on the suit? This is why we need a ruling. We need to make a decision. Because there's a grapple in the Batmobile, right? That Sean mentioned. I think I think you're right, Mallory and I think I get both of the things that I want it, which is the sonar and the grapple. Because if it ends up that it's not coming with the suit. I don't want to deprive you.

I don't need it. It's fine. That's on our sign. Okay. All right. We are in the final round of the draft. Joe's team is complete. Joe's movie is complete.

I got everything I wanted. My entire vision is there. And it's going to be a great movie. Troubling sign if you don't have competition for any of your picks. But I'm happy for you. Daniel, what's your final pick? So my final pick is Gotham here. And there aren't many guys.

Gotham's left. And I am not going to choose Christopher Nolan's Gotham. Because I think that there needs to be something distinct about Gotham. And there are just like too many recognizable elements of Christopher Nolan's Chicago. I feel like being like Chicago. As opposed to like, that's why I'm really excited to see Matt Reeves version of it, honestly, just based off of what you guys have been saying. Because it's just there's something that's so crucial, I think, to Gotham and such.

I don't know, the dark element. That's why Tim Burton's Gotham is also great because it still feels different. But this is basically a long-winded way of me saying, I'm going to go off the rails a little bit here and go back to Mask of the Fantasm. Oh, no. Because I think that the animated series does, honestly,

like the best job of, like, showing Gotham, like the Art Deco style of just the, you know, of the design of it, Like, just there's something that's so perfect about it in that movie especially. And I think if recreated, like, pretty true to that, I think it would actually fit really well with, like, a darker style of, like, the Robert Pattinson or, like, the Toothace. Recreated as a animated drawing, though, which is what it remains. I love this, because now I'm not the only one with a unconventional Gotham thing. But it's a really good Gotham. It was my alternate.

It was my alternate for Gotham. I think that's my favorite Gotham. Whether or not this is perfectly going to coalesce with the rest of my vision here. Right. I think that that stands out to me as being my favorite Gotham. Love it. No notes. Great pick.

To be clear, when I said Me Too, I didn't mean that it was my favorite Gotham minus Lego Gotham. Obviously, I meant it was my. I was saying Me Too to what Joe said about this. This was my other consideration here. Yeah. It's a great pick. It's a, it's gorgeous. And it's a beautiful pick.

I love it. It just means, all it means is that Sean and I are the only ones with movies that make sense. And that's a good place to be. For now. For now. Who knows? Yeah. Winsall George Clooney.

Sorry. With this Batman and see, he can have a Lego Batman still. Kevin Conroy. Kevin Conroy. That's up there. Yeah. Oh, God. Okay.

The reason that I said, oh no, when it was clear that Daniel was going to select the Gotham from Fantasim is not because I don't like the pick, but because I was excited to get into the phantasm of it all with my final pick for my wildcard. So many options here for wildcard, but I feel really fortunate to be able to make this selection late. An All-Star. Still on the board here in the final round, I don't understand it.

You know, I don't understand it. Every now and then the Chicago Bears take Mitch Trubisky and you have the real pleasure later on of selecting Pat Mahomes. That's how I feel about this pick. It's going to lead me to the championship. I am selecting as my wild card, Dana Delaney's Andrea, the phantasm from Mask of the Fantasm.

This gives me kind of everything, like across categories. I get a love interest. I get a villain. And I think that as discussed earlier, it's actually really important inside of a Batman movie to have more than one villain. You need to have that interplay among characters.

characters. And Andrea has the ability to bring out the absolute best in Bruce, this aspirational quality, the kind of man he wants to be, the kind of life he wants to lead. And it's totally unmoor everything about our hero when the true intentions and the truth of it all revealed in time rounds out my team nicely. I'm feeling great. This was on my list. Yeah. I'm still having... Honestly, Sean, I thought you would take her earlier. I really did. It was between the penguin and the phantasm. And if I had taken it, it would have been a different movie because the movie would have then been a love triangle

with the phantasm and Selena Kyle and Bruce Wayne. And I'm not sure I want to do that. I'm living in a modern society. I'm not about pitting women against each other. That's not something that I think is the right way to tell stories in 2022. Powerful ally stance from Sean. Thank you. So I opted against it.

But it's an excellent pick, Mallory. And that is... Thank you, Sean. You know, low-key, that's the best Batman movie. That's, like, that is really, Daniel said it too. Like, that movie is, and if you grew up with that series, as I did, that series is incredible. So good. And it's an interesting entree into my pick, because, like, I really, really want to pick Kevin Conroy's Batman as my Batman.

I think his Batman is... It's a great pick. As my alternate. As close to perfect in the conception of the, you know, the original Kane character as we've yet gotten the kind of the storminess, the grandeur of his Bruce Wayne, but like living largely in darkness. His, his superheroic granite chin is, I think, the most effective. I, Joe, as a bat chin scholar, what are your, what do you know what's on the chin? Definitely. My first comment, when we, the first thing they released from the Batman was the photo of Patinson and the cowl. And like,

the angle of his jaw and the slash of his mouth, because he doesn't have bat lips, he's got a slash. it read Kevin Conroy to me, honestly. And Conroy is iconic. And Pattinson is quite good. So was it Daniel? Did you get Patinson? Got Pattinson. And you guys will see.

And I'm excited to hear what you guys think about how he fills out the suit. But Conroy is great. And that movie is great. So I wanted to represent it too. So is that three consecutive phantasm picks that we just made? It is. I love the phantasm showing here. And I'm really digging the injection

of animation into some of these movies. I genuinely, let me just say this. Sean, you're my competitor today. All of you are, we're all competitors. I want to see all of these movies. That's honestly how I feel about it. And I sincerely cannot wait to one day in this fictional Ring Reverse universe

that we've crafted here today. See animated Fantasim Batman interact with Danny DeVito's penguin. Heath Ledger's Joker. There's just, there's a vibe there. You're going for a vibe. Let me ask you a question. What would you think if I had taken Batfleck?

And I had said, let's take Batfleck out of Zach Snyder's hands. Let's put him in my hands. Because everyone, I think, believes he could have been a good Batman. I think he's great. I think he's, again, like Jeremy Irons-Alfred, I think he's, I really wish he were in movies that I liked better. Yeah. And I would like to have seen it. I considered it.

But he just, he didn't, he never showed us enough because he never had a chance to succeed. I would have, if I had not gotten to take bail, knowing that bail and Keaton would have gone very early in the draft, no matter what, and suspecting the patent said, I would have happily, happily taken Affleck, because he is actually,

I think, excellent as Bruce and Batman. And there's this really, like, forlorn, beleaguered late stage Batman, you know, 20 years of crime fighting energy to him, that I think really works for a certain type of movie. And you pull him out of the movie,

actually in into a movie that we have created, he would be wonderful. Wonderful. He's great. Like Kevin Conroy, I mean, especially, Sean, because you like to think about appealing to the base, right?

I think a lot of people put Kevin Conroy as their top Batman. Many people say he's their favorite. Many people are saying. Speaking of appealing to the base, I feel that collectively we have made one in grave error. we no one selected Mark Hamill

Mark Hamill yeah I thought that's what you were gonna do Mal I was thinking I was really thinking about it at one point I was counting on someone doing it I would if I hadn't gotten my villain where I did I would have happily taken

the problem with it is his role is not that big in phantasm he's not like a huge part of that story and so it doesn't it's not like I mean no one took Nicholson's Joker either which I think is a pretty interesting decision. And maybe it's just because Ledger is so powerful. You know, you guys felt like a Joker had been selected.

That was so strong. I feel like if you're going with another Joker after Heath Ledger, you're just going for the second best. Hard to match up. Yeah. It's a good note inside. That was my hesitancy with taking Two-Face, too, because he's playing second fiddle to Heath Ledger.

Yeah. You know, I'm looking for that potential there, though. These second fiddle villains, it would be interesting to see them in the exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

The Batman. Out of the Raza ghoul shadow, you know? Into the light with Killion Murphy. Killion Murphy was like in the running

to be cast as Bruce Wayne. I am forever wish there had been more. He has the lips and the cheekbones for it, Joe. Depending on the cowlop. You can see his screen test. It's online.

It's good. So, you know. Yeah. I love it. And the eyes, imagine he is almost too recognized. It would defy a good quality

that people wouldn't be able to identify him immediately. Yeah. All right. Final thoughts. Anything else anybody wants to say in defense of their own team to take down anyone else's or do you feel like you've made your case?

I'm so excited to see my movie. I'm really proud of it and I'm so excited for it. Let me say this. Four weird movies right here. This would be a great day at the cinema. It was always going to be the case. Okay. We have drafted in pursuit of vengeance

but now it falls to you are Ringerverse listeners to dispense justice. Head to the Ringerverse Twitter to vote for the winner of the Build the Best Batman movie draft. And remember, to tune back in

for all of the Ringers coverage of the Batman. Big picture, the ringer.com, and of course right here on the Ringervverse, where again the Midnight Boys Poo-Pew will return on Friday

with their instant reaction. Joe and I will be with you next Monday for our deep dive. Thank you to our caped producing crusader, Steve Allman, for producing this episode. Our Ringerverse City Commissioner, Arjuna Ramgapal, for his additional production work on this episode. And our boy wonder, Jomi Adaneron, for his work on the social media for this episode. And of course, thank you to Sean and Daniel for joining us today here in the House of Our. Until next time, remember, Ringerverse isn't the podcast we deserved.

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