The Ringer-Verse - The 'Dune' Double Feature (1984 and 2021 Versions) | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

The 'Dune'-night boys are here to look back at Arrakis! They dive into their thoughts on both the David Lynch 1984 'Dune' film and Denis Villeneuve's 2021 'Dune: Part One.' They begin with the faithfulness of each adaptation and what one might need to know going into the much-anticipated second film (07:55). Later, they break down the Lynch version and what this flawed but lovable film gets right about the novels (16:41). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone. I'm Mallory Rubin and I am thrilled to tell you that House of our has a new podcast feed. Joanna Robinson and I will now be with you twice a week with more of the deep dives you've come to know and love on the ring of universe. In addition to exploring all of your favorite nerd culture new releases, we'll have nostalgic revisitations, hype meters, hall of fame inductions, tropes courses, drafts, and more. All bad babies are welcome as we dive into Star Wars, Marvel, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, and beyond. Follow the new House of Our feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the Ringers Nexus podcast, V for all things, fandom. We are Steve, the architect, Alman, builder, tinker of things. We are. Jummy, explain it.

Dinner on. We've got questions. He's got answers. We are. Old Man, Van. He of the receding resurgent hairlina. We are. Coke baby Chuck.

Whoa, no. What? New name. What is it? Spice Baby Chuck. Midnight, Badee. Quizax Holmesorak. I do like that.

I like Quizax Holmes. Quizzax Holmes Iraq. Crazy. Together we are known as the Dune Night Boys. Ancient lamentation music. Follows on socials, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, say Jomey Shop.

Jami. Hey, it's going good, man. Y'all really rocked with that Avatar video on the Instagram. Hey, we're close to 25K. Random numbers up. Hey, at least they fuck with the avatar. video because my fucks is bad about the episode podcast.

Not fucking feeling it. That's all right. Yeah, you know. Hey, not fucking feeling it. Not, not, not feeling it. Here's the thing. There's only one person in the entire ring reverse universe that wants all of the content to be bad.

And we know who that is. Whoa. There's only one person who thrives on the content being bad. The rest of us would want the stuff to be good. Like, I'm sorry, guys. That's all I'm saying. I don't, fuck it. I'm sorry.

It wasn't the best. Wait, do people sincerely think that we want to, like, sit down and spend eight hours not enjoying something? Yo, I spent all day looking at that shit. I would have loved to have been good. You guys. You guys, like. Nobody wants it to be good than the people watching it. I spent all day looking at that shit.

What the fuck? I would love it. Of course I want it to be good. Crazy ass shit Fuck that shit All right Jesus Um

Fuck have a reminders Pizz me off This Friday The Dune Night Boys Return to give you Our reactions To doon 2 We've seen it

Woo Mm Mm This is how I feel about Dune 2 Oh yeah All right I have phones on

Please don't do this I'm at On Monday On Monday Mal and Joe on the House of Rfeu will be giving you their deep dive on Dune 2. I'm expecting that to be

an epic pot. Oh, man. When Joe got out, like Joe was breaking down the fucking lore. You know what I'm saying? You got to lock you. The spice must flow. We'll tell you guys more about

team bonding that we had out there at the Americana. Lindale. Very nice, Americana. We're a joyous area. Mm-hmm. Magical. Magical night.

Magical night. Had a great time. Magical night. We'll talk more about that on that podcast on Friday. But to me, just a, this is not a spoiler. Gotta be real. Shout out Chris Ryan holding us down. The real one who wanted to like.

It's a real one. Sit. Hey, got to save it. Gotta save. I'm with you, Charles. Chris Ryan. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it.

On Friday, I want you guys to, we're going to, we're going to talk about a decision that Chris Ryan made that shows you who he is. Who's the real ally? Who's the real ally? Okay. What Philly does to your heart? What Philly does to your soul? We're going to talk about it because that's very important.

We talked about it then. Yeah, man. Holding it down, keeping it real. Chris motherfucking Ryan. On the last day, well, one of the last days of Black History Month, we salute you. We recognize you. Just wait until Friday. Notice how Steve silent.

Steve. No, Steve always makes that choice. I don't speak on you. Hold on. Hold on. You guys, we're going to have, there's going to be a whole separate conversation about the choices that Steve makes.

You know who Steve is? Steve is, when Steve is on the Midnight Boys, he's like Justin Bieber in his young money face. Oh, man. When Steve is on Midnight Boys, he's bangers-era-Miley-Sy. Damn it. Yeah.

Fight back, Steve! Come back. Not save it. We're saving it for Friday. We saved it for Friday. Also on Monday, Button Mass returns to give you their review

of Final Fantasy 7 rebirth. I haven't even heard of this game. Remember Final Fantasy 7? It's all in the streets, brother. Final Fantasy 7 rebirth? Yeah. Can I ask you a question?

Were there multiple Final Fantasy sevens? Yes. Well, the original came out in 97. That was called Final Fantasy 7? Yes, correct. And that's pretty much the most beloved game

in the Final Fantasy series and now they're remaking it with modern graphics, kind of a new story, a new take on the new story, and it's in three parts. Am I tripping by thinking that they've done Final Fantasy 7

more than once? No, no, this is the second time that they did it. They did it. Because Final Fantasy 7 was the big deal. I was in fucking high school. And now they're doing it again right with,

they're rebirthing it. Is this the first installment or the second? Second installment of the remake. The second installment of the remake of Final Fantasy. No, because a remake came out like, what, three, four years ago? 2020, yeah. Remade, okay.

I'm not fucking with it. But anyway, on today's show, damn. You guys, we're doing something so fun. Oh, man. This is a blast. It's a fucking delectable delight is what it is. We're giving you our reactions to the Dune double feature where we watched the 80s Dune,

Dune and the 2021 Dune. Now, these are the same version. These are, so actually, you know what? I'm going to turn it over to Steve real quick to explain to you after we get into the spoiler warning. Kind of the difference. You read the book. A very long time ago. Just basically take my knowledge of like just the Dune lore is very minimal.

So you don't know a fucking thing. Not a fucking thing. I know some things. He read the book. Okay. He read the book. All right. So first of all,

Before we doing that, spoiler warning for Dune. And then we're going to, Steve, tee it up to Steve is going to give us a like a little bit of breakdown into the difference of the books and the stories and the Dune One of the, and maybe that'll help you guys even with Dune, too. Spoiler warning real quick. We're getting ready to talk about Dune. You're listening to a reaction podcast.

The spoilers are coming. For somebody who's read the book. Right. Going into Dune 2, looking at the other two movies, how faithful are the adaptions in terms of the 80s version of Dune and then the Dune 1 that came out in 2021? So I think because this is kind of our first time experiencing the 80s Dune. The 80s Dune really tried to literally do as much as it possibly could within its runtime to make everything in the books realize. And if it didn't make it realize it was kind of just explained away in either a montage or an info dump or something.

It tried to really expand on all four quadrants of the massive amount of lore. So how many Dune books are there? Oh, there's six. There's like six books. But I mean, okay. When I say how many, okay, go ahead, Charles. So there's six books, but Denny split his up into part one and part two, and that's just the first Dune. Okay.

And the 1985 version, or it's 84 or 84? 84. The 1984 version, that is essentially an adaptation of. The first dune. The first book. So instead of splitting it up into two, basically Lynch's Dune is that whole entire first book. Right.

Right. That's why I stopped Kaleika who had never seen the original Dune from watching it because they're spoilers. Yes, and there technically is. And that's like kind of an added caveat to this conversation because while we're going to be talking about the 80s Dune, it covers a little bit more that we'll likely be talking about in Dune 2. in Dune 2. Right. But we'll be light.

Let's be light with the spoilers of Lynch's Dune. We can still talk about it without having to be like, this is exactly what happens to Paul at the end. Right. But when we also have to mention that Sting is in a loincloth and who he might be playing, that's also an important character that shows up in Dune 2. Yes. So what we're telling you guys right now,

and of course you guys know that Austin Butler is playing the same character that Sting played in this. So you know that Austin Butler shows up. What we don't want to do is be too precise about what it is that happens in the movie because we want you guys to experience Dune 2 and some of the

shocking things that happen in the movie This is why you can't say. Van is the funniest one of the funniest moments of my life. Like a shocking

legitimately shocked. That's how you know that the movie has you. Like shocking things that happen in the movie I don't want to like to. No, we're not.

No. I will promise with the Lynch Dune conversation, There's a lot to talk about. Plot-wise, I'm not going to get to the second. All right. Let's start this with a little look forward to Doon 2.

So I had a couple questions for y'all. I was getting into arguments yesterday. We're doing this entire podcast to get people prepared for Dune. Well, Dune Part 2. Do you guys think that people have to watch Denny's first Dune Part 1 to get to, or they should re-watch it in preparation? Because this is not a spoiler. This has been out.

doone 2 is basically a continuation of the first film in terms of like it picks up right there do you think people should rewatch or if you've never seen it go on netflix go on hb o max just put it on okay so if you've never seen it it will probably do you well first of all you don't actually have to see the first dune to me for this movie to make sense all right for the movie to appreciate it deeper in the way that i think like i think it helps even thematically to see the first one to really understand the journey.

So I would say this. I would say that you don't really have to have seen a new hope to watch and understand the Empire Strikes Back. Yeah, but there's no world in which we wouldn't recommend you don't see. I understand that. So what I'm saying is there's two different questions. Will your experience of this movie be enhanced by either a rewatch or haven't seen the first one? Yeah, cool.

but I can tell you right now, there are going to be a lot of people that go see Dune Part 2 that didn't see the first one. They will probably still love it though. They will probably still love it. And like to not be discouraged to the idea that like

you'll pretty much get everything that's going on. Right. I do think for the amount that happens in this particular movie and for the way that the movie looks, feels, and sounds, you probably should go back and watch and do a quick re-watch on it

before you go into Dune 2. When we went to go see Dune 2, Like when I, as I was leaving the house, the credits were rolling on Dune 1, go to the theater, seeing, saw Dune 2. Thought was like magical, honestly. Like, even with the Dune 2 being incredible, just being in that world, being on Aracas, going back to it, I think it's an incredible experience. I would, I would suggest if you've rewatched it or if you haven't watched it or you need to rewatch it, watch that and then go watch Dune 2. I guess my question for anyone that's contemplating it is, you ain't fucking with Dune? Jesus Christ.

The eternal question. I was like, why have you not fucking watched Doom? I wasn't fucking with Doom. You wasn't fucking with Doom. I was converted. You're not fucking with Doom. Now I am. Now I am.

Now you are. Here's the thing. Another question. Guys, I'm one of those people. I think it's kind of bullshit. I think conspiracy theory, movie theater shit is like when people like, yo, you got to see this in IMAX. I'm like, bro, come on. I don't know.

Most times when people say that shit, I'm like, kind of lying. This time. No, you have to. I kind of am like, if you're going to see Dune 2, IMAX. No, yes. You definitely should see that. Yes. And also, you should see it with, look, the sound in the movie was very special.

It made my balls wet. Oh, my gosh. I'm just telling you, the sound in the movie was reverberating through the bottom of my undercarriage. No, my. Like, like shaking my tank. If you hit them to the point, then how down? You, y'all didn't feel it down below? No.

No. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait. We were all in the same movie theater with the nice, the Americana, we was in the reclining seats. Y'all didn't feel me recline all the way back. I was feeling it down below.

Now I'm glad that I wasn't in this row. I was feeling it in my undercare. I felt it in my chest, in my heart. When that guy gets on the mic, he's like, everybody take your phone and put it down. Oh, my. That's how it was. Next final dude, two questions.

All right, did y'all see people beating up, phone Twitter beating up on Denny. I saw that. What did he do? I did see this. He said, what did you say? It was in an interview with The Times of One and he said, quote, frankly, I hate dialogue. Dialogue is for theater and television.

I don't remember movies because of a good line. I remember movies because of strong image. I'm not interested in dialogue at all. Yada, yada, yada. See, this is my problem with two things. A, you guys' generation. It feels like you have to have an opinion on everything. And number two, just the climate of social media,

that is a completely reasonable take. Yeah, for his director to have. Honestly, having seen his movies, it completely tracks. And by the way, if you were to talk to like Aaron Sorkin, Aaron Sorkin would tell you the movie is all about the dialogue and the interplay between the characters. You need both, right? But also, there are, like, I don't necessarily, like, take Christopher Nolan.

I don't necessarily go to a Christopher Nolan film being like, oh man, this got to be like fucking Aaron Sorkin level dialogue. No, like you go to a Christopher Nolan or a Dennyville new film to see something visually and sonically that most directors just kind of can't do in the modern age. And I'm like, why are we mad at him for being like, this is what is important to me as a director? Do this is understood?

How many Tim Burton movies have had coherence? stories. Like, the reality is not that many. They're movies that grab you emotionally. The camera is telling a story in a very direct way. That's not a shot at Tim Burton. What I'm saying is there are many different ways to actually convey what you're trying to get on film and using your camera as a character and as a storytelling device is certainly one of them. I didn't understand why people were so upset. I think that's why both the do movies work so well with Denny as the director, because, I mean, the the book is so confusing.

All the terms, Shihalud, Benad, Jesuit, Quazac, Hedderak, it's all mad confusing. But the way that Denny makes the film, it's a spectacle, it's an event, and you rock through it because every scene you're seeing something that's incredible to see on screen. That's why it works. So I'm with it.

That's a perfect segue to the double feature because the thing that I noticed about watching Lynch's version and then watching Denny's version is that visually, Denny explains almost so much of this world with such little dialogue. Like in that first movie, it is very much like I'm like,

God damn, we got to learn about spice, sandworms, the thumpers, the Fremen, the prophecy. And it never feels like it's too much. So this is what I would say. Let's give a little bit of grace

to the technologies ability to like, oh yeah, okay? Fair, yeah. Like, because even like, all right, so there are certain scenes in these, in these movies that are basically, I mean, it's the same scenes, right? Yes. There's a scene on, what's the whole planet of the Atreides? Caledan.

Caledan. And Denny's version of this, the camera kind of pops back. First of all, you see Paul and his mother, but then when Lido and Paul are walking, you see where they come from. Yeah. The camera pops back. You see this vast, lush. It looks kind of like Ireland or something like that.

But you can tell that these are people that are very directly connected to where they are from. They make reference to the fact that his grandfather rode bulls. They are of this place. And it's opposite of Iraqis. And it's opposite of Iraqis. You see the sea in a way that in lynches, like, it's just, it's a different time. And you can't. It's not, I mean, maybe they could have, but it's not the same type of deal.

You know what I mean? So they kind of tell you a little bit more. And you see that a lot, right? You see a lot in the new movie. The visual storytelling is different. One, because maybe the sensibility of the director, yeah, true, maybe. But also, because David Lynch is a very visual director as well. He's an amazingly visual director.

But also because you can do more shit. Yes. But in fairness, here's the thing. Guys, I loved, probably the reason I loved Lynch's Dune. This is the second time I'm seeing it even more after watching Denny's is because Denny's Dune aren't really that interested in the psychedelic nature of spice. Like, if you describe what, like, spice is, like, I've been reading up on the lore. I'm like, okay, so this is essentially like a fucking drug that allows you to travel through space and time without moving.

It's literally like, imagine if oil and. gasoline also was cocaine and LSD. And Lynch's Dune feels like. Lynch's Dune actually is like, I'm going to make, there's like the fetus baby, they're having fucking visions. That's what Lynch is good at, the Twin Peaks of it all.

Denny's Dune is not interested in how high Timmy is getting really at any given point. Right. They really, they nerfed the spice a little bit. A little bit, yeah. And it's, you know, they mention it at the beginning. The spice is the way they're,

you're able to travel and all of that stuff. They nerve. The Spice is used much more as a McGuffin to tell this story about intergalactic strife and power struggles and deception and like why the Harkinans are so evil and all that stuff.

The Harkonans. They pronounce it differently in the Lynch version. Right. They call them the Harkonans. So it's not, we talked about this as well. Steve, the Nassonans. Navigation Guild, the people that have been mutated and look crazy because of spice.

I was like, wait, was this in Denny's dude? It was not. So when they come in and they're all in black, I'm like, okay, those are the Harkinus, bet, you know, all right, cool, we've fallen. And then the little, like, shuttle thing comes through and they open it and it's this, what, a glob of flash? It's from the Navigation Guild, and, like, those are the guys who have been taking spice for generations on generations, and it's muting.

them into like this Jim Henson nest creature? What's the god is inside the in the Ninch turtles? Crane. Crane. Crane. Yeah, it's like Crane or Modoc. They kind of look. That's kind of how they look.

That right there, knowing that spice is integral to them being able to do their job, we can fold space and then seeing what the spice has done to them or that gives the concept of spice power. Right. And so Denny's version of the movie ain't really even about that.

Which, like, to be fair, if you include everything that the books try to do, you will eventually get muddled down in a lot of nonsense, which is what David Lynch's Dune ultimately suffers from. I mean, Lynch's Dune is also, we have to be fair that this is coming out in the 1980s, where it's like, it is more of a straightforward sci-fi story where Denny's is like, oh, no, I'm going to make, I'm interested in the thematic way of Dune of the Messiah complex, of what does it mean

for a white man to be a colonizer. And, like, Litch's Dune isn't really like... So Liches Dune comes out at a time where we're interrogating these things in a different way as well. So everybody in this movie is white. Right. The Fremant are white. The Fremant are white.

Argonins. Which really misses the entire metaphor. of the book entirely. If they're real, the Fremen look like plumbers in Lynch's like. And like when I say white, I mean,

these some white. And they live in the desert. Like these are some white. The desert hasn't had any effect on them. They white. Everybody is fucking white. And so, and you look at the characters.

So you have Patrick Stewart as Gurney in this one. Yes. Who plays Duncan Idaho with this one? The guy from, he's a very well-known actor. Like, the guy from,

um. Richard Jordan. Richard Jordan, but like, look at his, look at his IMDB. He's been in... Richard Jordan's been in amazing stuff. Like a lot.

Logan's run, Rise of the Titanic. Oh, that's him? Yeah. I didn't even recognize him in this movie. Yeah, he's been in a lot, a lot of lot of... This cast is a low-key stacked.

I didn't, oh, it's a stacked cast. I didn't make a rise, Max Von, Max von Sino. Max on Sino. Sito. Yeah.

I didn't recognize him. I was like, oh, also we got to be real. I, it's so, it's so fucking fun to see Kyle

fucking McLaughlin did this shit His first role It's okay I think he kind of does a great job He does a pretty good job Guys when he's no to me but When him when him and his homie Hop on the fucking worm

And start riding the worm And the fucking Guitar solo comes in I'm like Mear me Like this is the shit Bro That was Toto

Toto is on the music here Yeah they're going crazy The thing is They are bro That's the rain down in a This movie, the original dune is a very specific expression of sci-fi, 80-s sci-fi craziness. What was out, like, because you saw, you saw Lynch's Dune when it comes out. No, not when it comes out.

It was four. To fuck you. But I saw it. But I saw it within the realm of time. What were the sci-fi movies out at that time? Oh, Nostka Valley of the Wind came out in 84. Oh. So think about that era of sci-fi because there are two different reactions to sci-fi that are happening right there, in my opinion.

One is the reaction to like Star Wars and stuff like that, which Dune kind of is, right? It's kind of trying to see what's been done and then create a deep, deep lore of something. But Dune, the book comes out before Star Wars. True. But the Dune movie very much seems like a reaction to. Star Wars. But Star Wars, something like Star Wars

becoming as big as it is, and not just Star Wars, but close and counters of the third kind, all movies like this, this type of mainstreaming of sci-fi. It's kind of the thing, the impetus for people to say,

what are other stories out there aren't we mining to, like, get people going in this genre? Like, later on, there's dark crystal, there's legend, there's all kinds of different,

there's an interesting, just quite, Does it hit on the nose a little bit of a miss 80s sci-fi rebellion that happens or era that happens during that time of really odd, off-kilter movies with great talent that Dune is kind of a part of. But then you have like the Blade Runner. That's high. That was very much.

Yeah. That is different because they're taking sci-fi almost a little bit more seriously. They are taking it ridiculously seriously. And they're also taking sci-fi and condescending. combining it with the detective noir style film. So they're doing a genre take on sci-fi. But that's what's interesting because Denny, Denny ends up doing the Blade Runner sequel 2049 and this.

And it's so interesting to see how Denny takes Dune series. Like he takes the thematic element of this series. So, like, I didn't really realize how much he's interested in the visual ass. of it, but like almost kind of like the mystical human quality of what it means for somebody to be like the Luke Skywalker figure. He shoots the movies so big, which is another difference between this one and the 1984 one. When you shoot a movie that big, the characters, they can't help but shrink. So they get smaller.

And so everything that happens between characters in Dune is it's more intimate. Because, like, you're walking out and you're going out on, you're going out to Iraqis, right? And the thing opens and you literally see on the people's faces, they are assaulted by what Arachas is, right? And it's a bunch of them. They're assaulted by what Arachis is. Arachis is this big, gigantic thing. The dust is coming in. It's huge.

The things that happen are very small between the characters. Like, I'm going to fix your still suit. I'm going to do all of this. it's really, really tight between them because they're in like an ocean of happening. They're in a gigantic, huge place. So when he's talking about what he's making his camera do, he's actually making the movie,

the interaction between the characters smaller by making the movie bigger. Now, in the 84 Dunn, it's the opposite. The movie is bigger because it's actually smaller because this is kind of a compact film, right? Yes, so compact. And they try to, and they make the stakes gigantic

because they're asking you to do a lot of imagining. You have to fill in so... For Lich's Dune, you're filling in so much of the... Because to your point, Steve, you were like, dog, how much of Lich's Dune are just kind of like montages and like, yada, yada, all right, 12 years later. And I'm like... Just people explaining shit to you.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Literally talking to you, narration, just like explaining... That entire reward that he has with the Harkin's just like a montage of stuff blowing up and him riding a worm. Wait, we got to be... We got to talk about it now. dog lynch i love you lynch is a legend bro i love lidge the fucking pugs in this shit when they pull out the cat no this was a good this was a good move this was a good move the cat contraption at the end

with the rat in it i was just like dog lynch what are we doing bro what like you red is that in dune there no the cat machine is not in dune oh for real the pug definitely was not in dung no i was fucking with the pug though now the pug was great i don't know they had pugs in future space. We talked about it in the group chat. They have bulls. If they have bulls, they can have fucking dogs.

Why wouldn't they have dogs? It's the future. I mean, just like... Would you take care of your dog in the desert? I mean... You bring Bozeman out to Iraqis. Bozeman is not going to survive in Iraqis. I love Bozeman.

He just... He's very much a house dog. Bozman is not going to survive in Iraqis, bro. The spice might mess him up. Yeah. Spice of fuck. Think about how crazy Bowes already is,

bro. Man. He's got blue eyes. Bowls with the blue eyes on spice turn it into a mutant he might be able to be in the Navigator's Guild taking us through space. I love my guy.

Can I ask a really quick question as well? Sure. Do you think Dune ever got far? Like what happens to like, you know, spice when you cut that shit? Are like, they're the clips or like the wire of spice

where you're just like, oh, we got the spice. I mean, you got the five families, the five houses. This is basically like a crime syndicate. movie. I mean, you also have smugglers, right? During the war. So, like, yeah, there's very much people... So you think they're cutting the spice with shit? I don't think they're cutting

to spice. I mean, again, it's like gas. I mean, if you cut into spice and now you can't, like, you fold space the wrong way, things might go wrong. You know, people might get hurt. So, it seems just too important to cut. Is there an illegal spice trade on other planets? I mean, there's... No.

It is only Iraqis. No, no, no, no, no. I know, but what I'm saying is spice only only exists on Iraqis, but if there's spice smugglers, somebody must be smuggling spice to other places. This is true. True. You know what I'm saying? They must be, and what do they do with the spice when they smuggle it to other places?

Are they using it to power their own machinery and all of that stuff? Or they just... Part of a drug trade. Yeah, it was part of a drug trade. Getting high off the spice. The spice fucks with you. But you would know. Oh, you know what?

You know what? The guy, this is true. So the guy that, because in the book, somebody told me, the, you know, the number one emissary of Baron Harkening? Yes, yes. In the book, he has blue eyes. That's true. Because he takes so much

fuck of spice, he on that spice. Damn. He fucked up off the spice. You know what's interesting, too. We keep saying spice. They don't call it Melange in the first. The spice malone. In the Dunes'in movie in Denny's first one. They don't call it the spice ballast. It sounds way more appealing. Spice is such a cooler name, bro.

I mean, I don't. I don't disagree. I don't disagree. Going from the first dune, like, just spice, spice, spice. Second one, they're like, spice milan. I'm like, I'll put some little zest on. This episode is brought to by Viori. When it comes to close, that score high in both comfort and style,

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grab a can and get after it. I was interested in you guys' response to the 84 Dune. I loved it. I kind of loved it. It was, because we keep coming back to this. I think my love for it is because it's so much easier to watch and enjoy already knowing the world. And this isn't like we're getting a novelty out of it because it's like, oh, it's so bad, it's good. It's actually not bad.

It's not terrible. It is not bad. It's not bad. So this is my first time watching. I had never seen it before. And I think it helped that I had seen Dune Part 1 because I had come into this one. You'd have no idea what's happening.

I would have no clue what was going on. I would have been crazy loss. And some of the scenes like Van Cynar are like one for one. So I'm like, okay, know this, I know that. I know the beats. I'm flowing with it. I genuinely think if I hadn't seen the first or the Dune Part 1 before I saw the 1984, Dune,

I'd have been like, yo, this is garbage, dog. what are we doing here the whole bit. But you appreciate it. I appreciate it. I honestly appreciate it. I'm trying to fit. Like, you're watching the 1984 Dune and we get to the end of Dune Part 1. I'm like, oh, man. They hit the desert.

They hit the desert. How much time it's got to be like, man, hour and a half left to something? They've been to go crazy. Oh, there's like 45 minutes left. I was just like, how are they going to fit all of that? All of this. And let me tell you, they don't do a good job. No, no. It's not. No. It's not. It's not. It falls off a cliff in the second half.

The first half is pretty light-tight. It's all right. Yeah, yeah. The second half, I was like, all right there. But that's when you have to do the most, because, like, they get to a point, and Lynch has talked about it, that it's not a terrible. No, yeah, he hates this movie himself. Right. They get to a point to where they just can't do as much as they need to do.

Right. And they sprint to the finish line. Which is the reason why you are so enthused about Denise Dune when it's coming out because, you know, they can do they have what they need to tell it in the way that it should be I'll be like dog Villanou don't rush he do not rush through these movies

he's like bro no he does not we taking time on this shit I think the one thing I appreciate about the the 1984 version maybe a little bit more than Dune Part 1 is that Duke Lido Atreides is an idiot

because in the in 1984 Kyle's like, look, this feels like a trap. We shouldn't do this. We're going to die. This whole thing. And I think maybe like, it's Denny just like, maybe like a little, I don't want to say

too much dip on a chip, but like maybe just like scudding it aside where we know in the first, in 1984 that this is a bad idea. You go to Iraqis. You're going to get clipped. Like it's a rap. And I think he hides it in this in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, four, I'm like. yo, is this guy stupid?

Like, you know your enemies are coming for you. Even Kyle, my man Kyle didn't even believe in his dad. He's just like, I love you, bro. Well, because that's like, the overall thematic element of like pre-Messia

Paul Atreides is that like he, like, with the training from his mother being a Benegeserate, like he kind of, he's not clairvoyant, clairvoyant, but like he is like very instinctual

and smart. And he has his own apprehension about going to Iraq in Denny's as well because like him and Oscar Isaac are walking through the graveyard, they're talking about their grandfathers and like we're going to lead

like wholesomely and we're going to do this purely and yada yada and he tells Duncan Idaho that he's having the dreams right. Exactly. Those things are like sprinkled in into his and in 84 you're just like

okay my dad's stupid because this planet's fucked and I think that this is probably a very bad idea. That's all that we get. What do you guys feel like they kept consistent from the two versions of it.

To a design degree, I was actually surprised how kind of close a lot of it was, like the military garb. The Harkinans don't look exactly alike. I think what Lynch actually does better is Denny doesn't make things that gross in either of his dudes.

Oh, the Harkinens in 84. Disgusting. It was hard to watch, you know. They got like boils and shit on their face. But they, are supposed to be they're just they're vile

in Denny's they're vile right yes they're vile and this one they're discussing but they're supposed to be these

examples of excess and gluttonous sort of aggression and this vile hunger that can never be met so when you see

the way that they act in the first one they look like they you can smell them coming off of the television and the the new one

they're just fucking scary They're just scary and gray and bald. By the way, none of them canonically bald in the books or in 84. Like, they just did that. You know, there's another version of Dune.

I was remembering that there was a miniseries that came out in 2000. Children of Dune on Zodon. Well, no, that was the sequel to the miniseries. I'm talking about Frank Herbert's Dune, which I never watched. It was a big deal when it came on. It's three parts.

I never looked at it. We're not going to look at it. but I've never seen it before. Nah, you know what we should do. This should just become a Dune podcast. All Dune. All the Boone. We're talking about Joe Dukes Dune all the time.

You're talking about the failed Jodorowski's Dune. Oh, that talk about, I want to see that documentary is incredible. Tell me, I don't know what you're talking about. Alhandro Jodaroski. He had a failed attempt to make a Dune film in 1970. He basically tried to get this movie done. Like, they shot footage, they went to the desert,

they did all these things and it was like a five year production cycle and it ended up being like trashed. It's basically like imagine the same thing with like Terry Gilliam making his Don Quixote movie. Yeah. Like it's just like so long and such a troubled production and then the production becomes the story.

Interesting. Very, very interesting. Do you know one thing that to me they took directly from Lynch's Dune? What's that? The sound of the voice. Yes. The voice is.

infinitely cool. The voice sounds almost identical in Lynch's Dune and in Dinnies do. You know what? I'm glad that they didn't take the shield. Oh, yeah. It was 1984. Give them some credit. I bet back in the day

that looked awesome. But now that looks terrible. It just doesn't make any sense. No. And you can't see anything. It just doesn't make any sense. They just look like a Lego piece And it's getting stretched together. Honestly, this is the one thing that I will say

that I don't think that the effects of the time actually hindered them as much as they just had the wrong concept of how that should look. Yes. Because they could have done like a light... Just like an outline around their bodies or something. People that would have looked a lot of that. You guys are going to kill me.

Even in Denny's dune, I think the shield is kind of a little whack. I think the shield as a concept is whack. Because I'm like, dog, all y'all really got in this world are not. you might as well just put on like a fucking Kevlar vest and shit if like a slow knife can get through the shit. They got guns. They got guns. Not that many though.

It's more of the concept of how the shield works because like the shield is supposed to protect you from like fast bludgeoning damage. But if you just go in slow, then you're fine. I don't know. It's like it's supposed to be built off of like vibrations. And anything that's slow enough to like penetrate through that vibration is supposed to be the thing that actually like stops it. I'd be interested to know from.

I mean, we do see a lot of gunfire. But when they get busy, when they get busy, it's always hand to hand. It's always knife to knife. And that's like an ode to like the chivalric like, okay, we must duel because we're a knight's Yeah, it's very honor based. Yeah.

Because like, I don't want to get into too much that happens in the new movie, but it's some gunfire. Some people shooting. The white, the white. they don't let Steve fucking trick you. The whites be fighting

when we're not looking. I can't wait. I can't, there's, you know, I don't want to tease too much about Dune 2. Let's say Austin Butler has a lot to live up to

knowing the stings in a loincloth. But they, there's so much that I have to talk about with that movie. Just so much going on. More so than the first one. You know, it's weird about 1984 too.

The inner voice. Everybody's got an inner voice. Everybody's got it. Everybody's got one. But I also think that to me, me is indicative of the difference in approach in the directors. Right.

Like, in the, everybody is like, even when they're riding like the helicopter or whatever, oh, this guy is not what I thought. He stayed for his men, the whole nine. They don't want us to infer that. It's more like a book. They want you to read the movie a little bit. Which also was a big directorial style at the time. Like, remember, like, the first cut of Blade Runner,

Harrison Ford was narrating in his head the entire time. It's something that. fell out of style and I think that one thing we also don't kind of realize about modern movies is that like dialogue wise we've cut down on that so much because like we feel like audiences are so smart now because like we got prestige TV we're used to we've seen everything so even Denny's dune it lets you really fill in a lot of the blinks in terms of like how people are feeling how people are acting like it honestly Denny said something to the effect of he wishes he could just do a silent movie where it was just like there's no dialogue you would just get the entire movie

and I'm like in some ways Dune too felt like that to me I'm like if they weren't talking in this I would still understand everything that's going on in in the first Dune you can see a lot of dialogue is kind of just propping up the emotions that are being portrayed on screen and it really is like a very deft hand that it takes for a director to do something like that because a you got to establish what this is what this is. world looks like, make it look awesome, make it believable, and understand that like, okay, this is a world

of Dukes and Knights, religious fervor, and manipulation of politics by basically witches. Also talking babies. Yeah. Talking feet. Now, okay. Well, hold on. We'll get to the baby Matumbo finger

in a second. You're talking a lot about Denny, which I think is absolutely deserved and right. but the actors in the first one specifically are in their bag. Like Timmy, Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaac, Josh Bowlin, Zendaya, even Jason Mamoa.

Jason Mamoa is giving you some Harvey-R-Dem. That might be one of Jason Mamo's best roles. Best performances. Like the dialogue can only take you so far, but you feel these characters. You believe that these characters are real people. And so when they're not talking, but they're emoting.

You're like, I get it. I'm here. So there's a, you guys all seen fences, I'm assuming, not you, Steve, but like, I've seen fences.

I'm assuming that you got to see fences. On a day, right? You took a girl to see fences. He did. Yeah. No, I didn't. I think you did. So always,

there's always this, this amazing comparison that you can do. I think we've talked about on here before. To where, obviously, in fences, there's like, there's a scene, a very pivotal scene in the,

movie where the son asked the father why you've never liked me. Like, why ain't you never liked me? And it's always a fun thing to do. I've put it on Instagram before to watch different performances of that scene. The similar performance of it prior to Denzel Washington was James Earl Jones.

So you would go see James Earl Jones and he did it in a very gruff, direct, whatever way, and then you would watch Denzel do it. It conveyed the same thing, but it was very comedic. Something that we're talking about with these two movies. So when the guy who plays

what's the character that Javier Albert Dinn plays? Skill Gar. Stilgar. Stilgar. When he, in the first movie, in the first Doom, because we're talking about, you know, being in the thing flying around and the guy having the inner dialogue, oh,

this guy's different than what I thought he was. They do that same scene, but they do it in a different way. In the first Doom, when he walks in and Lato Atreides is there, he walks in there, he walks in very directly, very resolutely, he spits, Lato then respects him, he spits back, and that, it's very active. That dynamic between them, that dialogue between them,

demonstrates that Lato is a different leader than what the Harkinans was. It demonstrates him, oh, this guy listened to me, he respected my customs, he talked about how we were going to work together. He talked about the fact that he did not want to exploit us. They had sent Duncan Idaho in there already to make an allegiance with the Freeman to talk about that. So they give you that same thing, but they give it to you in a different way. And that's just the way two different filmmakers interpret how you would make, how you would show the audience that Lato is a different ruler than the, than the, than, Aaron Harkening. One just tells you

and the other one shows you. Now the reason why I point that out is because once again, I think that has to do with the interpretation of the movie and the scope of the movie. The scope of it and just to be real with you, all of these people that were in this movie before

are great actors in the 1984 one. You also see that performance technology yeah. Like has come along way. And even all of these guys that were in this movie, they're better probably, first of all, the movie's not poorly acted at all.

But it's acted in a different way than how we act in films today. It is theater. It is projecting. Exactly. It is being as big and as voiceless as you can be to convey what your character needs to actually show. You don't get, you don't put Patrick Stewart, like, known Shakespearean actor. Classically trained theater actors.

Classically trained actor to downplay the relationship that. Josh Brolin does in Denny's due. Josh Boland doesn't need to, he just needs to shoot you a look, and he knows that you've trained him with him all your life in the ways of the knife. Patrick Stewart, he'll like, he'll like pontificate and he'll

give this amazing, like, dialogue with like perfect diction. Because he's coming from the stage. Yes, he's coming from the stage. He's coming as a way to project out to an audience to understand something. With Denise, it's all filmmaking. It's all subtle. It's a look. It's a, it's a turn of a knife. It's like trying to hop

over a table. It's a quiet movie for the most part. I mean, it's a very rousing. That's why people call it boring. A lot of people think the first dune is boring because it is so quiet.

Like even if you think about, if we look at our two paul's like Kyle and Timmy, you're even seeing how much what we demand of our leading men has changed. Because like, Timmy is a very like, he can do very quiet still scenes. Like, it's not very,

Kyle has to be very charismatic and his Paul is almost like good from the jump. Like he's like oh this is the hero of this. And the first dude, Timmy's still kind of getting his ass handed to him a little bit. You like, oh like Duncan Idaho is fucking making fun of him being like, yo you put on weight.

Not really. Like it's interesting even how like Timmy versus Kyle in this. I'm like, oh like leading men get to be a little bit more emotional and a little bit smaller on the screen. and it's not super almost soap. Like, if you watch Twin Peaks, like that's like almost soap opera.

Like Kyle can do that. Like Blue Velvet, all those, he's great at that. Like, Timmy's more like, he's also playing Paul Atreides in the 84 version a lot more wide-eyed than what Timothy Shalami tries to play. Because it's very much like,

I'm not going to call this a hero's journey, but the arc that Paul Atreides has from being a boy to a messiac like fervoring leader as a grown man

like that's a whole arc that happens for Kyle's portrayal in the span of a movie albeit very truncated and not that well executed but he's got to have that range from the beginning of

Dune part one from Denny it's all like okay he's just kind of a loner weird kid and he's kind of just taking everything in and learning, and he's more or less our audience surrogate to the entirety of this world.

A lot of things are explained to him. And you're right about that, Steve. And that's why I don't understand the other criticism of Dune One is that it's like a half a mover and incomplete movie. It fundamentally... Let's go ahead and do this.

It's fundamental. By the way, I want to say it's not. I said Dune was a quiet movie and everybody's going to be like, oh, Van, such a loud score, Hans Zimmer, and all of that stuff. That's not the no. That's not what I, that's, I don't mean it's quiet as and there's no sound.

I mean, the movie is very serene in a way. I find it very relaxing. Charles, Jomi, fight. All right, Jomey, because you've been on this, explain to the audience why you have a gripe with this take. It's not a gripe because here's my thing. I understand that media, media literacy is different for everybody, right? Like, look, what it is.

Look, no child left behind. Are you saying? No, no, I'm not just, I think people see things differently, right? And we're all allowed to have our opinions. You read something. It might mean something different to you than it means to somebody else. I think in this film specifically, of course, you're allowed to be like, eh, did it really? But to Steve's point, movie starts with a kid who's like, I don't really, I'm not really trying to, I don't know if I want to be a leader, let alone, like, you know, go to a new planet and do this whole thing.

And at the end, he has a moment of, like, I don't say a moment of balance, but like just a moment in his life where he's like, I got to do this. I got to make this choice. and he makes it. And you're like, okay, he'll, that's, he's, he's on the path. Like, he's, he's here. He's arrived. And the movie ends, I'm like, yeah, man, great.

We got, we went from point A to point B with the character, the audience surrogate, the character that we're supposed to relate to the most. That sounds like a complete movie meet. Like, for, for people to continually be like, ah, you know, have, like, sequels get made all the time. Things aren't always resolved in one movie, especially if there's another one coming. I think the part one trips people up too much.

But it is, here's the thing. It's called part one and part two for reason. Here's the thing. Is the first Dune a complete movie in terms of like, yes, there is a beginning, middle, and end? You can make a beginning, middle, and end for anything. If we're talking, like, narrative structure-wise, like, hero's journey,

Timmy's Paul, literally leaves fucking home, finds the mentor, goes out into the fucking wilderness. That's not the end of the hero's journey. And I know people would be like, but Paul's not the hero. I'm just talking about structurally what Paul needs to do.

Like, Paul needs to go home. Like, that's going to, like, narratively fulfill. That's why it's called Doom Part 1 and Doom Part 2. Because, like, I think, like, yes, doom part one, there is a beginning, middle,

an end for it as a movie, but as a story, like, heroes journey-wise, It does end in the middle of the Is across the Spireverse half a movie? Which one? It's way more egregious than this movie is. Yeah, I think the, I think it's way more egregious in

Across the Spider-Verce. Yeah, Across the Spider-Verce is much more half of a movie than this. But it is a similar thing where it's like the reason like a lot of people did not, like, I talked about that when we, when we. Yeah, it's like because Miles needs to like go home. Like he's on a mission. Right. His mission stops.

Also because you did not know. Yes. So that's another thing, we should say. You did not win. I was expecting some sort of resolution there. I, at least, maybe you guys did, did not know that there was another movie to be coming that would finish that.

I did not know either. Yeah. But here's the thing. Like, it's tricky. Because if you look at like Empire Strikes Back, I don't look at Empire Strikes Back as half a movie, even though it is like, it does kind of end on a cliffhanger in terms of just like,

I don't watch the first Dune and be like, well, where's the rest of it? It doesn't end on a cliffhanger. Okay, here's the thing about Dune. If we take, so I'll talk about the Empire Strikes Back, and then I'll talk about Dume. So the Empire Strikes Back doesn't really leave on a cliffhanger. It leaves with more to be done. True.

Right. So it's like, okay, now we've got to go get home. Well, now we know that there's another movie, because we're not about to lead this nigger in the plane. You know what I mean? And also, uh, Skywalker knows that Anakin is his father.

They, at the end, they're on the phone. Dad. Like, you know, Ben, why aren't you telling me?

And Ben is like, yo, I lie all the time. That's me. It's like, Ben is tough. Ben is like, all to the game.

Ben is like, I'll just, hey, look, Luke, I don't know if you know, but I'll just straight up fucking lie to you, bro. And then tell you,

from a son. Then he just said, I'll just say, from a certain point of view. I'm just, I'll just straight lie to you. That's what I'm on. Fuck it. By the way, I whipped your dad's ass like three times.

Are he supposed to be the bad snick in the galaxy? I walked away when I shouldn't have. You know what I mean? I just let them, whatever. But there are a couple of things about the criticism of doing one that get to people. Number one, the absence of Zendaya in the movie, her specter-like. Well, that's because she was in all the trailers and the posters. Right.

So when people say that it's a half of a movie, they also say that because she's in the movie a little bit in the beginning and then maybe in a couple of dream sequences and then she pops up at the end and as soon as she pops up, she's gone. Right. So then people would say, oh my God, they told me Zendaya was in this movie and she's not in the movie. Where the fuck is Zendaya? This movie is not a full movie because I expected this movie to have Zendaya in it. So, so. Which, by the way, I said the same thing about like almost any other movie. Right.

So I'm saying it is a little bit different. I don't feel like it's half of a movie. I don't feel like it's half of a movie. I felt like it ended with a fight. And I was kind of like, oh, it wasn't the best ending I've ever seen. Empire Strikes Back certainly had a better ending. It had a better ending because at least it felt like they attempted to let you catch your breath. this the do one didn't attempt to let you catch your breath it was like all right that

nigga dale okay let's move on oh movie over dog he comes in the first movie and they just start walking and then the movie's over keep it pushing it's not it's not as if they could have at least been a situation where they went you're one of us now or maybe it ends with paul becoming ingratiating into the they kind of didn't do any of that they kind of just went okay he's dead like we move on i just and i think that i think maybe the biggest uh gripe that i might have with Dune and Dune part one in the way that it ended is that obviously the finale

is Paul finally taking James's life and that being like the big like turn for him to be like okay fuck like I have to like it's me basically becoming into a man and I am going to like kill

my young innocent version of myself to become what I will about what I will become in Dune to real quick we're talkable versus we're talking about Jevis right now. Shout out to the Facebook group, man. Apparently, I tweet, I think the same tweet where I was talking about,

I can't believe people seem to do one. They completely film made it to the Facebook. People were in there arguing. And somebody, shout out to Kirk Henderson at Kirk Sears Face. I already know what you're about to read. I put in the group chat, but the people got to hear this. I can't believe that Midnight Boys

actually fuck with this empty soulless-ass-ass film. It literally ends with Timothy Shalame unnecessary murdering a black man. and the Midnight Boys crew are hyping up the sequel on Black Hershey Muth nonetheless. What are we doing here? Should I play the drums or no? Fellas, I mean, like, respond. If you touch that motherfucker, who tweeted?

Hey, who tweeted that? No, well, Kurt, he posts it it from Facebook. Somebody on Facebook. And Kurt, send it to me. Whoever, whoever posted it on Facebook, you're going to get the biggest pew, pew, fuck you I've ever seen. If you don't get your dumb ass out of here, with that stupid ass shit.

First of all, bro, I love it, boys in the hood. The movie is dead niggas from the beginning to the end. The reality of the reality of the situation is that the movie is not soulless at all. And for us to be like Timothy Shalame killed a black man in the movie,

that's the biggest Mr. Fantastic Plastic Man, motherfucking reach ever. I would also argue that, like, Denny is not dumb by who he. cast in that role in terms of like... Yeah, maybe there's a reason you can. I'm like, I think that like, thematically, y'all should go out and watch

Dune Part 2 and give Daddy a little grace because, like, motherfuckers are reaching and like... Oh, I have criticisms of Dune Part 2. Oh! Let's not... All right, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

We will get to it. Oh. Oh, we're going to talk about it. Yeah. I don't want to know what Dr. Ruhmar thinks of. I, we are going to discuss it because it's fucking egregious. The movie was amazing.

All right. Amazing. But not, there are some things that we have to have a family discussion about. Probably. That's for sure. I think to, like, to wrap up the half of movie conversation, ultimately for me,

think like a character progressing throughout films happens all the time. It happens. Road of the Rings happens in Back to the Future. You wouldn't say those movies are half a movie or one-thirds of a movie. Just think, like, the way that movie ended for me, at least for me in the way I see it. Once he kills Jammis, I'm like, yo, he's on his way. Like, this is step one to his larger arc.

And it's a natural stopping point in the story as what the first person takes a life. Do you know why you wouldn't say, back to the future is half of a movie? because the thing that he set out to do and back to the future, he did it. And even in Empire Strikes Back, the thing that Skywalker set out to do in the movie, which was to face his father, like, he did it, right?

And so, what would you say, Lord of the Rings? I don't remember the movie even well enough to even. That's a tough comparison because while the entire Lord of the Rings saga is three contained stories, that is both chapter-off. and like, okay, this is the arc for the first one. This is the arc for the second one. This is the arc for the third one.

But they didn't get the ring to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, yeah, but here's the thing. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but here's the thing, because, like, if we want to be real, the only thing I will say is, like, Frank Herbert, like, what makes Dune weird, even, like, if we're being real, is it was not just released as a book. If I remember correctly, like, it was serialized in sci-fi magazines,

and then it becomes Dune. So, like, I think it's not. that like this conversation it's like it's really what you think because like the way even dune is written to your point if people think they got half a movie fine whatever if people think they got a full movie in part one that's also good i think at the end of the day when we look back in ten years motherfuckers aren't going to be like oh i only got half a movie in dune part one they're going to look at the hole yes and be like and that like that's why i'm like it doesn't matter because like i'm going to i don't look at this as dune part one and part two anymore

honestly, I look at this as like Denny Villan who's doom. Like in 10 years when they're like, we're having a marathon just watching all of it, they're going to put on both of them fucking movies. Yeah, nobody's, yeah, nobody's going to separate them in time. Yeah, you're absolutely right. So guys, midnight meter. Let's start with Denny's first, midnight meter. Well, we got a mini Mulligan coming out because we already rated this on the midnight meter for the first time.

Oh, so let's go through the old scores first. Van, you gave Dune Part 1 a 7. Charles gave it a 7. Jomey gave it a 10. I was locked in. I gave it a 9. Do we want to do a mini Mulligan? How do we feel about it now?

I want to do a mulligan. I'm absolutely doing it. I think I'm going to up mine to an eight. I think I'm going to up mine to an eight. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to up mine. Hey, what year did we do this?

2021. 2020. Hey, 2021 van. You a bitch. Damn. You're a bitch. You're a whole ass nigger that you. you was at your crib, depressed,

fucked up, and you couldn't get into Dune. It's a 10. A 10? 10? Wow. It's a 10. You guys, I have watched, let me tell you got something. It's almost as if that's why Mulligans are important.

I've watched Dune so many times. I've seen this. That's the thing. I remember you, like, the first time that you saw it, you're like, I don't know if I'm really fucking with this. And then after we record that pod, you watch. it over and over and over again. I just sat down and I watched it again.

And I watched it again. I was like, the first thing I saw, the first thing I, this is going to sound so stupid. The first thing I said was this. You know, the costumes in this motherfucker is crazy. The steel suit you're filling the steel suit. I tell you when, it's when they go down and give the Atreides the treaty of Iraqis and that whole same thing. When they come out, I'm looking at this.

I'm like, hey, man, when you look at this shit and Kalika's like, this is a beautiful movie. I'm like, it is, isn't it? And then I did what I don't think that I did the first time I watched the movie is I sort of surrendered to the movie. You have to surrender to it. That's why I love this time around. Yeah, like, I surrender to the movie. I'm like, all right, y'all do y'all. Whereas I think in the first one, I think I was looking for something and that stopped my enjoyment of it. And also, I didn't get a chance to surrender to it. Like I would have surrendered to it had it been in the theater. Because it was in the theater. But it was like, it came out on max.

Yeah, that's the thing. Do you think if we saw D1 and IMAX the year it came out, we'd be like, oh, seven. Like, I don't think so. Well, first and foremost, I gave it a 10. I think I still would have. I've grown to like it now. I will also say that, like, it's a different time when Dune was coming out. Like, Star Wars was still, Mando, like, we was still high on the shit that, like, we was getting.

And I think now kind of the wins have changed. And now you kind of want it. saying this like 2021 was 18 years ago. And he's lying too. Content-wise, it feels like it. Right. He's lying too because we covered Falcon Winter Soldier that same year. So, like, I don't know what you're talking about.

I mean, here's a thing. I would grade Falcon and the Warriors' Soldier, Oh, really? Oh, really? A lot of things differently. Up or down? Down. So, by the way, I love, I still love the Falcon of Winter Soldier.

No, I do, too. I think the show is better than it is bad. And I think that we kind of look back on it. with all the rest of the shot. The finale. It was really bad. The finale takes it so hard. How many of the Disney

Disney plus MCU finale's have been good. No, but that's like one of the worst ones. Like outside of like maybe like secret invasion. Secret invasion was worse, bro. That's what I'm saying. But like outside of that, I would put that. Oh, Moon Night. No, no, no.

Moon Night too. Like Wanda Vision was a brilliant show. Yeah. And the finale was bad. Yeah. Like actually, Wanda Vizion's finale is not anywhere close to the last. All right.

Well, it's not anywhere. course of the worst, but I would put Talking about a soldier in that tier, in the bottom tier of finalees. Oh, yeah. Echo? Echo finale. Hawkeye?

Moon Knight. Hawkeye had a solid finale. Moon Knight had a... Moon night was a bad finale. They saved their finale for the... So I guess what I'm saying is this. So I guess what I'm saying is this. Is that like, you watch something

and oftentimes you have a reaction to it. You can say, hey, this movie was well crafted. I didn't get it. But I'm going to be honest with you. There's nothing about the first Dune that I do not get. Like, I love every scene of the movie. It's just in a different way than I did when it first came out. I will say this, even though I'm not like as,

high on Doom part one is y'all, I do have to offer an apology. I think it was like you know, you get older, like, you watch more things, you kind of understand a filmmaker more, and I do think like Doom in totality is just such an achievement.

And I think like Timmy, Denny's, and Daya, it was like, I don't know. Like, I offer my apologies. Like, I was sleeping on dude. Like, Dune is fucking a big moment. There are there are parts of the film that just like we talked about it.

They just demand that you invest into them. And if you're not like really ready to invest in them or if you're at, if you're at the house, you're watching it and there's other shit going on and you're stopping it and you're starting it. A lot of times what would happen is, me and Kalika will put the movie on

while we're laying down in the bed and we're laying down in the bed, we put the movie on and we're just there, right? And we're just watching it. And it's a brilliant, amazing film. It really is dope.

But I'll tell you guys one thing. It's the only thing the last thing I'm going to say about this. For as great as the original Dune is, Dune 1, it's not even halfway fucking with Dune Part 2. They're going to be so mad that you keep gas in this out, bro. Yeah, you're going to be mad.

They're going to be mad. Yeah, that's a lot. You spoiling. They go fizz. I don't give a fuck. All right. Wrap it up. Last question.

We got to give our Midnight Meter for Lynch's Dune, Van go first. That one I'm going to give a seven. A seven? Yeah. Oh, okay. You know what? No, what?

Eight. Oh, wow. Lynch's? Yeah. That one I'm going to give a seven. This is really what I want. Would you guys have to understand, though? Like, okay, just real quick.

I'm going to stick with the seven. But let me tell you guys something. Let me tell you guys something. Like, in high school, this is what we had, guys. Damn. I'm not trying to tell us down. Is this why you're so positive about all this fandom shit because you're like, y'all, y'all don't understand how far we've come?

You know what, bro? Kind of. Like, in high school. This is what we had, man. Like, this was it. This was it. We was watching this. Monty Python movies.

Baron Munchausen. Dark crystals. We were watching. Bury Munchausen's great. I love that fucking movie. I love that fucking movie. Like, we, we hadn't hit it. Star Wars, there was, gone.

There was no Star Wars. Y'all had Batman. Batman was hell? We had Batman, but that's more. that stuff is not the same as this kind of sci-fi stuff. Like, this is the stuff that we had. This is the shit that we had.

Like, you know what I mean? And so, I'm just connected to the movie in a way, so I'm gonna give it a seven. What about you, Charles? I can't give it an egg. I say this with love. I had so much fun watching this shit.

I was laughing my ass off. The teeth, the tooth, the tooth. But that shit's a four. It's not one of Lynch's screen. No, I have fun. I have fun. It's like Lynch is a legend. It's just, come on.

The second half the movie is agreed. It's tough. I think I'm going to be with Van and give it a seven. I think the thing that stood out to me the most, like as an overview thing, is even though like this came out in 1984 and a whole bunch, like, Star Wars came out afterwards, I'm watching them film. I'm going like, oh, the book that this came out of, like, set the stage for sci-fi for, like, the rest of time, basically.

You know, you got the twin sons out there on Iraqis. When I'm looking at Duke Lido, I'm thinking like, oh, that just, he just, a homeboy from Game of Thrones season one. You know, rest and peace, Sean Bing. You know what I'm saying? Ed Stark. You know what I'm saying? Like, just like a dummy doing dummy things and then dying and sending the whole plot off. You know what I mean?

Spoiler alert. For Game of Thrones? You don't kill you? I've seen Game of Thrones in 2024. Have some shame lock in max right now. It's just, it's a very important for, for film and for like. like the genre as a whole. I do have some like qualms with it.

But the end of the day, like, it wasn't like the greatest movie we've ever seen, but it means something. So I got to go to seven. I'm with it. I'll give this six. Like, ultimately, like, not the best. But I think there's a lot of fun with this.

And I ultimately, I dig it quite a bit. Okay. You guys. This was a delightful, spirited conversation. I cannot wait till Friday morning. Oh, man. It's, man, I wish we was recording this. I'm like...

I cannot fucking wait, we can just pop right now. If we didn't have... I gotta see it again. Oh, you see it again? Yeah, I'm going to night. We're going to night. Yeah.

Okay, let's go. That's a wrap. This Friday the Midnight Boys give you their reactions on Dune 2. On Monday, Mal and Joe, on the House of R.O.B. giving you their deep dive on Doom, Part 2. Also on Monday,

but MASH returns to give you their review of Final Fantasy 7 rebirth. Credits. Our producer, Steve, Dr. Atta, Alman. Jomi. They're on. Hashtag Spice Jomi on socials. Additional production from our June and Rungapal.

Charles, take us out. We high off spice. Part 2 is coming soon. And the Midnight Boys don't fuck with you. If you don't fuck with Dune. Boo! Can you imagine going up to a girl would be like, yo, girl, you want to get high off the spice milange?

Dude, why are you giving them drugs? All right. Stop. All right. We gotta stop. We can't keep doing it. We can't put this.