The Ringer-Verse - 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' Episode 4 Instant Reactions

Episode Date: April 9, 2021

The Midnight Boys return to talk about the explosive latest episode of 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.' They first dive into a Nerd News Minute (03:39) detailing Ray Fisher's experience with Joss Whedon. Then they break down every exciting spoiler-filled detail from the latest entry in the MCU (10:53). Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Welcome into the Ringerverse. It's the Midnight Boys. Woo! Let's get it.

It's Van Lathan. From Higher Learning with Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay and Charles Holmes. From the Ringer music show, we are here to give you instant reactions to the Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Episode 4. One of the best episodes yet. Maybe the best episode yet. The best, we're just calling this the best episode right away. Maybe.

Damn, okay. I didn't feel that way. It was good, but I didn't feel it was the best. But continue, continue. Okay, okay, well, there you go. We start off. So, of course, this is the Friday show where we do the instant reaction, us, the midnight boys. You have to come back to the Ring of Verse feed on Tuesday.

You're going to have Mallory there doing a deep dive, giving you all of the super well thought out after a couple of days digested theories and your mailback question. So get those mailback questions into at Ringerverse on all socials so that Mallory can recognize you. We're impulsive. We're knee jerk. We're uninformed. We're going to trigger you.

And that's what we're doing right now. So because we have to do, oh, before I get to that, I have to let you guys know something else. We have bonus episodes coming up because there's more stuff coming down the pipe. So I need to say that again, right? So we're going to have extra episodes for both Mortal Kombat and bonus episodes for Invincible as well, because we're so into Invincible that we're going to be talking about that and having some more bonus episodes. That Moral Combat was supposed to come out next week, but it actually got pushed back to 423. We're going to have somebody.

We're going to have McCaugh-B Brooks who plays Jacks from Mortal Kombat. He's going to be on the podcast with us to talk a little bit about Mortal Kombat. that like this is a guy I've known for a long time, but he put on so much muscle. He really devoted himself to this role for like a year and a half, two years so he can play Jackson. Is this the homie? Is this the homie that looks like what's his face?

Steve Harvey? Why do you say he looks like Steve Harvey? He looks like Steve Harvey. No, he doesn't, Charles. He has a mustache, yes. He looks like Steve Harvey a little bit. I have a thick mustache right now. Do I look like Steve Harvey?

No, no. I got to be honest with you. That's real disrespectful. I'm not trying to diss Steve Harvey. But when McCod first jumped onto the scene, that was in true blood. And he was every woman's fantasy. It was almost akin to our boy from Bridgetton. It was almost on the same level.

And you just said he looks like Steve Harvey. Well, I said he looked like Steve Harvey, specifically in this role. And don't discount Harvey. I think the aunties still think he's cute. I don't know. I would have. They might. I don't know.

Okay. All right. So knee-jerk reaction times. So, spoilers from now on. There are going to be spoilers from now until the end of this podcast. So if you haven't watched yet, don't complain. Engage. Go watch because there are going to be spoilers in the podcast from now on.

But before we get to our instant thoughts about episode four of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, we have to go to Nerd News Minute Okay, look So there was obviously You know, in the superhero fandom space Most of the news this week

centered around Bombshell, bombshell Blomshel allegations made by Ray Fisher in an interview with the Hollywood reporter. Now, Ray Fisher has been really taking aim at Warner Brothers in D.C. for what, the last

two or three years now, about the working environment that was created on the Justice League film and about what he believes to be racist, unfair, unjust treatment that he's received at the hand of Josh Wheaton and Jeff Johns.

And John Berg as well. And John Berg for a long. He's pointed to finger at a lot of people. In this particular interview, though, he got very, very specific. Charles, you read it. What do you feel like was the most shocking allegation that was made?

I think for so long, we had heard that Joss Whedon had been a nightmare on set, allegedly. And throughout the profile, you kind of get the nitty, gritty of, at least from what Ray Fisher said, how horribly Whedon treated him and the cast. And I think the story that, like, made my blood boil as a black man is Ray Fisher had a problem with cyborx saying boo-ya. Boo-ya is a catchphrase that Cyborg said in the cartoon. Kids know him for it,

but he was like, hey, like, nobody else in the cast has a catchphrase and I don't want to be, you know, the, I don't want to be a black character

saying this catchphrase when no one else has to. And he tells this story about Josweeden being on set and, like, saying this really disrespectful Shakespeare line to him and, like, goading him

into it. after as a black man, he's like, yo, I don't feel comfortable. And it kind of touched home for me. If you've been black in America, you've had a job where, like, a white guy in power just needles you. I felt for him even more than I have. And yeah, what did you think? What was the biggest thing for you after reading it?

Well, obviously, one of the bigger things that came out of it was the, Regeneret Page thing. Regeneresne Page is the actor who plays the Duke in Bridgetton, just one of the hottest stars right now on television. And MVP of that show. MVP of that show. MVP of that show. Not returning, but MVP of that show.

And it was the fascinating argument around the Krypton show. So here's the deal. There was a show that came on sci-fi Krypton that was about the planet Krypton, obviously the planet that Superman is from. It was about all kinds of things that were going on there. Interesting show. I watched it for a little while. Interesting show. Apparently, Raising a Page was supposed to.

to play Superman's grandfather in that show. But when news of that got to Jeff Johns, he said Superman couldn't have a black grandfather raising A Page's black, and that he envisioned Superman's grandfather looking something like a young Henry Cavill. And this news came out, and obviously it looks crazy now. The guy was put on Bridgeton,

and it ended up becoming a huge show. He ended up becoming a huge, huge television deal. And people are saying their racism or their inability to see a different color in that role might have actually cost them a huge fan base. Krypton is no longer on the air. Yes. So it just kind of, that became a whole cultural thing.

And then there was another part of people. Actually, my podcast co-host, Rachel Lindsay, she looked at it and she is not in the space. She's just kind of a tangential fan. And she said, well, look, Superman is white. So it would make sense that they wouldn't want to cast or Rachel's Black. It would make sense that they wouldn't want to cast his grandfather

as being a black guy. So there was actually a debate that got set off about whether or not that actually spoke. There were some people who are on both sides of it. Really? All right. I want to just say this, you know, before we get out of Nerd Corner,

Superman is a fictional character. He is an alien. Like also, Regine A is. It's not the darkest black man alive. Like, if you were just like, if they had put him up, he's like, this is, this is Superman's grandfather. He's black. I wouldn't, my first reaction would be like, what?

I'd be like, all right, I get it. He's an alien. Like, I could see it. Like, I know a bunch of, like, white guys who are just like, my great-grandfather, whatever is black. I'm like, cool. As a black person, I didn't see anything wrong with it. You know what I'm saying?

Like, what's the deal? I mean, so, so my deal is this. So, if you're out. Outside, if Rachel comes from outside of it. So to me, there are two things. Number one, of course. Superman's a fictional character and a fictional universe. Obviously, you can make whatever.

You could make some different alien being. Because we don't know, like, oh, from Krypton, be Superman's grandfather. And we'd be like, oh, okay, whatever. We're going to go with whatever because we read comic books and we understand how things change around. And we've been doing this for a long time. Another thing is this. I think that they missed an opportunity to actually draw eyes to the show. casting reggae jean would have been something that would have interested people they would have been curious about it would have started a conversation it would have been a big deal and he's such a good-looking and charismatic actor that really jeff john's inability to see beyond the scope of his cultural awareness actually cost them there so i think i think two-fold it was just a very interesting thing to me and you know reggae jean talked about it and he he didn't know that that was a thing but now that he knows he obviously

feels away about it. I mean, also, let's be clear, Superman's story is an immigrant story. So it adds another layer. If you're like, hey, his grandfather was a black man, there's just like, you don't even have to talk about it on the show. We don't even know if black and white exist on Krypton. Exactly. You know, those are all things that our earthly minds are conceiving. We don't know any of that stuff. So, like, we don't know how the Kryptonians view this. And it would have been an awesome way to actually set up how they do. So, you know, not going to spend too much time on it, but that's the big deal. And I don't think that this, that Ray Fisher, I don't think that Ray Fisher's problems with Warner Brothers or D.C. are going to go anywhere.

I think until they are adequately reconciled, that is going to remain as a cloud hanging over D.C. In future projects that they do and in the talent that wants to work with them. So I implore DC to figure out what's going on over there, make it right, and everybody sit down and talk about it. That was the nerd news hour, basically, but whatever. It's a big story. It's a big story. It's a big story. Me and Charles want to talk about it.

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We have to do that. Final spoiler warning. We're about to get into episode four of the Falcon and the Wear a Soldier titled The Whole World is Watching. And because we're about to get into this, that means we've got to do it. We've got to try to 30-second recap. 30-second recap.

You said on the last episode, this is the episode where you finally get it. I'm going to nail it. All right, let's do it. I'm going to nail a 30 second recap. Wait, wait, wait. Before you nail it, I feel like we should, like, put a bet on it. What do we bet on it if you can't get it? I bet you, Charles, a box of world's finest chocolate,

which is the most amazing thing ever created to make. It's a delectable delight. it's a double D It's a Turkish delight It's a Turkish delight I love these delectable delights I bet you a pack of world's fire chocolate That I get it right now

Producer Steve put it like let's take note of this All right Let's set the timer Let's start the timer Start the timer Now after an emotional flashback scene In Wakanda AO and present day Gives Bucky an ultimatum on Zemo

Then all the boys Walker and Battlestar included Link up to find Carl and Morgenthau Sam tries reckoning with Carly, reasoning with Carly, before Walker takes matters into his own hands and also the very last vial of Super Soldier's serum after Zemo destroys the rest. The Dorma Lodge didn't show up for Zemo,

but he gets away as the Wakandans give Walker the business. Ego bruised at all. Walker finally takes the serum and kills, and Carly kills Battlestar Walker, finally murders a flag smasher with the shield. Did he? You didn't make it. I got it.

I got it. I got it. That was it. That was it. Steve, Timebreaker. make it. That was the shit. I am showing 30.33 seconds. God, damn.

Mail me my Turkish delights, man. Oh my God. That's pretty good, though. Like, let's climb it up with me. That was pretty good. Man, that was the 30 second recap. God damn.

But you know what that means, man? I'm going to send you my address. You know what I mean? Hey, I'm going to send you worlds fine chocolate. I will. Hey. It's amazing. I'm going to see you to chocolate cover in almonds. I'm going to seen you to chocolate bars. They're great. I love it.

Love it. So, I just got this script, and I'm seeing something that I need to call you out on, Van. Which is? The best Falcon in the Winter Soldier episode thus far? I think so. You got to, you got to defend it. You got, because I like this episode.

Well, first of all, give me your instant reaction to this episode. I thought that the episode, pacing-wise, was slow, but the emotional beats, the character beats, I was like, oh, I need this. And I think, like, we were talking about how much Anthony Mackey felt like the sidekick. And this was, like, the episode where I'm like, he's the emotional center of this. And he's proving why he's the only candidate right now that makes sense as Captain America. And I think, like, Mackey killed it. I agree.

So I'll tell you why I think this episode was. the best episode. Everything worked. They got everything right in this. Now, in terms of action, was it as action-packed as some of the other ones that we've seen? No, it wasn't. But the action that was in the episode was so integral to the story. It wasn't just big action for the sake of big action, have everybody fight to show everybody fighting. There were scenes here that drove the narrative forward.

And the second reason why I think this was the best episode is because it did something that I didn't think the show was going to be able to successfully do, which was make me by Sam Wilson as Captain America. This is the episode where Sam Wilson became Captain America, and I'll tell you why. So to me, being Captain America, people say that Steve Rogers doesn't have a superpower, right? that he doesn't have a superpower, that he's an intense guy, but there's no superpowers to Steve Rogers. That's actually not true. Steve Rogers' superpower, in my opinion,

is his military mind, his ability as a tactician, his heart, everything that can't come out of that bottle, like Tony Stark said, everything that you would aspire to be. Everything that all of these heroes want, why God's follow Steve Rogers into battle

is what makes him Captain America. And while other people may have super strength, super speed, cosmic abilities, all that, there's only one hero in the entire Marvel universe who has what Steve Rogers has. Nobody else has that. One guy has all of that stuff. A lot of people can fly. A lot of people can do this.

A lot of people are universal reality warpers. But only one guy has what Steve Rogers has. And in this one right here, when I saw Sam talk. talking to Carly, right? There's a scene in here where Sam is talking to Carly Morgenthau. He asked to go in alone to speak with her. That was Falcon's superpower on display. His ability to connect with her, his ability to reason with her,

his ability to be both resolute and who he is and what it is that he has to do, but also to be pliable enough and compassionate enough to listen to somebody else and let them know that they could fight together. That's going to be his superpower as Falcon. And I thought they blew that away. Absolutely. I mean, the part, and I think we've been complaining about it, for the whole season,

we are like, why isn't Falcon like even a good fighter in this? Like, why isn't he jumping in it? Why isn't he? And I realized during this episode, I was just like, part of his character is, is that, like, he's not Bucky. He's not enhanced. He has to use his words. He has to, this is a guy that when we're introduced to him in Captain America Winter Soldier,

he is talking to other soldiers and veterans, helping them through their traumatic events. And there's this special scene in this episode where Zemo asked Sam, would you take the serum? And without hesitation, Sam goes no. And then we mirror it at the end of the episode where Battlesar asked John Walker, would you take the serum? And he says yes. and that to me is the defining difference is that Sam does not need a superpower,

he does not need to be the best fighter, every single time he's like, let's have a conversation first. This should not be a fight, and I think that is like, that's a bit of growth for the character that I wasn't even really expecting. That makes me want him to carry the shield by the end.

Yeah, speaking of John Walker, let's talk about him a little bit. So we see John Walker's Captain America really take a turn in this episode. You know, we always knew that it was coming. We always knew that it was coming. But he really takes a turn here. Of course, we start out. He is just ruining everything.

Okay. Sam is talking to Carly. He's getting through to Carly. Walker, who doesn't trust anyone, who doesn't believe in people, who believes in what I believe, is the true villain of this show, and definitely the true villain of this episode, we'll talk about a little bit later.

He goes in there, he ruins Sam's ability to connect with her. Later on, we see him lose a fight to the Dora, and when he loses that fight to them, that's the last straw. He feels completely inadequate. That's his Joker moment. That is like him,

him losing to these African women is like his Joker moment where he's like, what? and they're not even super soldiers. Like, let's be clear, that scene where their Dora Milage come into where Zemo, Falcon, Winter Soldier,

and John Walker are, and they destroy all them. The Dora Malagia, clean house. The coolest scene is one of them goes, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow. Bucky's arm just falls clean off. Yeah. And John Walker doesn't know what to do.

He's like, how did they serve me? So thoroughly. You know what? The same with the arm falling off. I'll tell you why that's a genius scene when IEO does that to him. That shows you how the Wakandans view the outside world. Okay?

That's the fact that she, the fact that there is, she knows how to make Bucky half a fighter because they helped him, but they don't trust him. They don't trust that Bucky won't become winter soldier again

and they really as Wakanda don't really trust anybody. They have the world's most precious resource there. Everybody would

try to take it if they could and they know that. So yeah, we'll help you but we're also going to give you a weakness

that only we know about and we're not going to tell you. It's a little of a Batman type of thing. I got to keep detailed files on how to beat you. It's a little

Batman. man, and it's so funny because Sam turns to him. He's basically like, did you know that could happen? Right. Bucky's like, no. Bucky's like, no. I thought I was one of the Wakandans. Really?

Bucky's like, yo, I thought I was, I thought they, that we was cool. She looked at him, but bing bambam, bing, boom, boom. It's like the, like from Kill Bill, the five point exploding heart technique. And she just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and gets his arm to fall off. It was actually amazing.

Back to John Walker's. She called him again, TD, our producer. I think it's also very funny, like, They call him White Wolf, and it's like you're kind of like one of us in a friendship way, but if you get in our way, we will dismantle you. And that's what I absolutely thought was a genius move. Very true. Let's get back to John Walker real quick.

All right. When you go back and you look at the contrast between John Walker and Sam, John doesn't know what he's capable of, and John Walker is wrong about what he's capable of. Sam is really just doing what he thinks is right. And he has no idea the, like he's turned down the shield. He's turned away from the mantle. He has no idea that he is completely perfect for it. John Walker thinks that he's overqualified,

but doesn't realize that he's inadequate. And that crystallized in this episode by the fact that Battlestar was killed. Think about how many fights Captain America, has been in with Sam. Sam is still upright. Yep. Sam is still walking. Sam is actually the better for it.

By being that close to Steve Rogers for all of that time, Sam came away with the particular set of skills and a way to navigate and deal with people that has kept him alive. John Walker's partner literally months into being Captain America is dead. Like, it's dead. That's like a complete, complete referendum on who he is as Cap. An expert bit of foreshadowing to everything you're talking about is in the beginning of the episode, Zemo says, quote, The desire to become a superhero cannot be separated from supremacist ideals.

It was such a pressure of a moment that they were writing because, like you said, John Walker thinks he deserves the power. He thinks he deserves to be Captain America. He was built for it. And Sam, throughout his whole journey, doesn't think he's enough. And I think that's the difference. When finally, John Walker takes the serum, he thinks this power is his. And he, like, he is above everyone else. And that's what I think is genius. And by the time, he runs out of the building and kills one of the flag smashers. the moment reminded me of like Watchmen where on the button there's like a little bit of blood

because you see this iconic shield Captain America Shield covered in blood people are filming and that is just such a perfect shot because Steve Rogers would never ever get caught out there like that and I just when that happened I was like oh like during all they have to do is stick the landing now

this is genius it's funny you bring up Watchman me and my brother used to do this thing where we would take like a round random movie and then like plot out the movie if we replace we replace the character and put Rorschach in this

in this. Like we used to do Forrest Gump. What if Rorschach was the lead? What if Rorschach was like Forrest Gump? Just all, everything happened in the Forest Gump. Why did you just ruin that movie for it? But Rorchak. I think of Rorschach. I think of Rorschach. It's a super funny.

Rorschach like super funny. Like all kinds of things. We did Malcolm X. What if it was Rorschach? Just on top. entire time. Anyway. It's just very funny. Actually, another thing about Sam, I think, like, Sam fought well in this episode. Like, when I remember

I said earlier in the series, that a big trick was going to be them actually making Sam look cool when he was fighting. And I bought it. I bought it. He looked amazing. He just looked like Captain America. This is the first episode he looked like Captain

America in the fight scenes. He looked like him. And his confidence, he looked like him. He was very sure of himself. He wasn't asking, he wasn't second guessing himself. And they kind of flipped it right there. G is storytelling and they may walk or the guy. What did you think of like when all of, they're all fighting the flak smashers? And I noticed like they're starting to make Sam's fighting style integrated with the wings. Because at one point he like flies, he kicks, he lands. Like they're making, what the genius thing is they're making his fighting style distinct from Steve Rogers and Bucky. And I just thought, Like, also when you were talking about being next to Steve made him, maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but there's like a spatial awareness to the way Sam fights where he's like not busting through everything like John Walker.

He knows where everyone is. He's not trying to kill anyone. He's trying to get all this people out safely. And like contrasted with like John Walker just like mowing through people. I'm just like, oh, I knew. I'm like, we're done. He's done. This is the evil turn.

Yeah. Well, Sam has been around a guy who first cares about the safety of people. Yes. And first, cares about his underlying morals and values. And, you know, John is just out there. He's smashing heads. Smash it is. And they also, a scene between John and Battlestar towards the end,

they talked about some things that they had to do in Afghanistan to win the medals of honor. So they've seen some ugly battles. They've seen ugly battles. And I also wonder if fighting in Afghanistan made them different than Steve Rogers' experience fighting in World War II. If those two differing political things, like have, if there's some commentary being made, and that's not in any way, in any way to besmirch the brave men and women who go out and lay their lives down wherever their call and duty of their country and service of their country. But I'm wondering if there was something being made, like if there was commentary being made about what the writers of this show actually thought about what was going on for U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan

as it relates to how we view World War II, if that's sort of a contrast between the two characters. I could be looking too deep into it. But in that scene where they're talking about what he had to do to get those medals of honor, I was wondering, like, what are they talking about? Like, what did they have to do? and I'm wondering if we're going to learn about some of the things that had to go down, you know? Well, I think there has to be a commentary because they say at one point,

these medals are for the worst days of my life. Like, they are reminders. And only a few minutes later, we see him run down and kill somebody who has surrendered. And there has to be some type of connection with that, thematically, because they could have put that scene in the beginning of that episode. where he's talking about, like, taking the serum and what they had to do in war. But they put it right a little bit before

John Walker, like, kind of goes rogue. So I'm not going to step on that landmine, but there is a lot there. I also want to shout out, rest and peace, Battlestar. Battlestar dies. Lamar Hoskins dies in this episode. He gets punched in the chest by Carly, by one of the flashmasters.

Was it Carly? It was Carly. Yeah, she comes out of nowhere and bow and he's just like punches him in the chest and then he finds that he's dead I actually expected him to die the scene before I just knew it was going to happen

this is the most unsurprising death in cinema history there's never remember Star Trek back in the day if you ever watch Star Trek so if you ever watch Star Trek they would go to like a foreign planet or something like that

and this is a big time Star Trek trope and it would be like Spock, Kirk, and some dude. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know if you're that dude, it's over. Like, you're done. Like, you're finished.

And I would always wonder, and Eddie Murphy said this in Boomerang, by the way. If you're that dude, why do you go on the mission? Like, don't go, like, you know, they're not. These guys, you know, you got. And so for Hoskins, I was like, yeah, you're dead, bro. You don't even have a line. Like, you don't even have it.

Like, they're going to kill this character. I was so, it was so unsurprising when he died. Oh, I knew from the beginning of the season, I'm like, you ain't making it out alive, man. And I also was just like, the whole time I was like, oh, man, they're doing a little character work with a battle star because he's actually on like Sam and Bucky's side. He's like, like, hey, man, calm down. Give him 10 minutes. I'm like, ah, you're done, man. You're done.

Yeah. Well, that was, that was John's concept. being killed. Like his conscience was killed. That happens in movies. You see it sometimes. There's one person keeping a character from really going over the edge.

That person dies and then that character goes over the edge. And we saw that with John Walker. He definitely went over the edge. Buck, we ever talked that much about a Bucky on this. We saw, the actually episode begins with, or we, not Bucky reliving, or us reliving, a Bucky's time in Wakanda, which we hadn't seen yet. You know, they got dropped off of Waconda.

Then we saw after he was, out there bailing hay or doing whatever he was doing in Infinity War. She was throwing, they always. Farm boy. Farm boy. The Avengers always, when they want to say you were coming back, they always end up doing farm work. That's how they get you to go back.

Oh, a hawk guy was out on the farm in the beginning. A hawk guy out on the farm. They had, and then, you know, Steve and Iron Man, you know, they're between missions and they're chopping wood. Oh, yeah. You don't mean? They always want to get you down to you live in the simple. hey, we need you.

And then you're out there. I don't know you're knitting or something like that. It said, whatever. But did you learn anything about Bucky's connection to Wakanda in this episode that you didn't know before about his relationship with the Dora, with Ayo? Because I didn't know before this that it was actually her character that was hands on with him reprogramming him and detaching his mind from hydrant control. Yeah, I don't know if I learned anything radically new,

but what I enjoyed is it gave another layer to Bucky and what he had been through. Because we see him in like Infinity War and Endgame and they kind of gloss over that, when we see the beginning of this episode and him being deprogrammed, you kind of get a realization of why he had to go to therapy because it's such a heart-wrenching scene

where he's basically almost crying. He is crying about reliving his whole life and being birthed as a new person. And I always thought White Wolf was such a dumb name. I still think it's a dumb name. But you get the name a little bit more because they're just like, oh, you are a new person who deprogrammed you.

You have fought all your demons. So I thought it did a lot of work for Bucky and it made up for a lot of missteps that he had in the previous episodes. So staying with the Dora, they fight and beat the hell out of John Walker. They beat the hell out of all of them. They kicked their asses.

And I think we need more Doram Elijah fights. I watched that scene. I knew that John Walker and those guys would get their, would get their asses kicked. And I think, personally,

that to this point, is the best fight scene in the show. Wow. I do. I think... You take the Coke Baby Crown today. Why is that a Coke? the Coke baby crowns better than the opening scene where

Falcons flying all over the place? I don't like the opening scene, man. Now, the opening scene was cool, but this was like intimate. This reminded me of Captain America Winter Soldier, where it was right there. You felt like you were in the middle of the fight. It was a grounded fight. You got a sense of just how amazing these characters,

combat skills were. And I watched it and I thought, that was the scene, right? And they just looked, I tell you, what, man, John Walker, I'm gonna be real with you, man. You understood something that we all get, bro. Don't mess with black ladies, man.

Don't, like, John thought something different. He tried all his little, he tried to smooth talk him at first. He tried to smooth talk him. I'm not, hey, I don't hate it because if I was in that room, I would have told the door, please step on my head. You know what I'm saying? I just, like, dropped it. Yeah, he tried to smooth talking. Didn't work.

Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, we, before, to get out of the door of corner. Sure. It was so sick. It was so sick when one of the soldiers like kicks, Cap shield up, catches that shit. And then A.

Yeah, but hey, drop it. Yeah, but how she know how to do that? Come on. How she know how to do that? She, like, how did she, that took Cap a long time to learn how to do that? I looked at that. Man, if you don't let these black women play with this shield, bro. Come on.

Yeah. Well, producer TD is saying it's a vibranium shield. so because it's a Vibranium shield, they know how to do everything with it. But what I'm saying is it's Vibranium, but she kicked it up and then put her hand through the leather straps, right? So my thing is that still takes practice

unless you can just do everything. That takes practice, man. Whatever. All right, so you're telling me that that was the most unbelievable part of this scene for you. No, no, I tell you what, you know what the most unbelievable part of this episode was? Okay, so we're going to talk.

a little bit about Zimo now. So Zemo in this episode, once again, I think he's a brilliant villain because he's showing his skills. He's showing how he is actually able to maneuver in ways and in worlds that Sam and Buck can't.

Of course, he gets the information about the funeral from the children. He takes out the Turkish delights, and the only reason I know what Turkish delights are is because as a kid I would have to read like the line, the witch in the wardrobe and like C.S. Louis made Turkish Delight seem like the Holy Grail of candy.

What is a Turkish Delight? We're going to type this in because I still to this day have never had a Turkish Delight. Hey, y'all, if y'all got some Turkish Delight, send us some Turkish Delights. Oh, all right. Are you ready, Van? What is it? A Turkish Delight, according to Wikipedia, is a family of confections based on a gel of starch and sugar. So basically, it seems like it's like a gummy candy wrapped in like covered in starchiness, you know?

Maybe like mochi. That's what I think. All right. All right. Turkish is light. I'm down to try. Wait, all right. Can I ask you really quick, though, as a kid?

Sure. If a white man came to you and was like, hey, you want to sell out your family for some Turkish delights, what would you have done? What age? Oh, I think six, seven? That's probably a go. You'd sell out your family for some Turkish delights from a strange white man. I wouldn't look at it as selling my family out. I mean, at six or seven, I think the don't.

because I was a last key kid, I think to be afraid of all human beings and everybody's going to hurt you talk doesn't come at that point. Okay. Because I, you know what I mean? Like, because it's like kids don't know anything like that.

Kids see somebody, hey, there goes my friend. And then, you know, and then we tell kids, we inform kids that the world is an evil place and everybody's out to kill and hurt them.

And then after that, and you probably won't take the candy. So at nine, probably not. At six, if you got candy, you got van. You know what I'm saying?

Little chubby band. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have sold out my family for a Turkish flight. Maybe a recess. Like maybe a couple of resists? I'm there. But you're in another country, though. So it's like, Reces are worldwide.

No, but the recent, the turkey delight is the recess of that country. The turkey, it's Turkish delight. You said turkey delight. You said turkey delight. If you get, once again, if you come to me and you got like a turkey wing or something like that, I'll probably take you where you need to go. Anyway, so I'll say this is so Zimo. So the most unbelievable part of this is when the fight breaks out and it's the Flaskmasters versus Sam, Buck, John Walker, and Battlestar, Zemo gets the drop on Carly.

He shoots her. That makes absolutely zero sense. Like she's walking towards him. He's got his gun unless he did not mean to kill her. unless there's a reason that he's trying to keep her alive. Our producer Steve says he shot her in the stomach. Remember now, he was a part of an ultra-elike Sukovian special ops team. He missed a kill shot on her from point-blank range.

That doesn't make any sense. Like, right-o, it just doesn't, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Man, I think I think you're digging a little too deep. I'm not into it. I think so. Not at all. Or maybe this is for, before we wrap up, this might be like, you know. He was like 30 feet away.

30 feet, like, look, it's not about, he wasn't 30 feet away. Number one, watch it again. I don't think he was 30 feet away. Number two, still, it makes no sense for him that we watch movies where Nick Fury didn't miss a shot when he had his gun. just plapping people. Clap life, clap life, clap life. But the reality here is that I don't think he should have missed that shot.

I don't think he actually was trying to kill Carly in that moment. That's what I'm saying. I don't think he was either. I think that he didn't even know that the vials of Super Soldier Serum were there until he gets up close. So if he kills Carly, then he kills his lead to the rest of the Super Soldier

Serum, which is his ultimate goal to get rid of it. So I think that explains a way, your argument. That makes sense. But I said earlier, I said he must have not been trying to kill her. That makes sense. That makes sense. But the fact that he would miss from there doesn't make any sense. All right.

I do think that we learn what the true villain of this series is. This is the last thing I'll say before we wrap up. The real villain of this series is supremacy. The idea of supremacy. You call me crazy. You call me crazy on the first episode, man. What did you say on the first episode? I did say the main villain

was supremacy, but I knew that this, the villain, this is racism. How the structures that we put in place are institutions that are meant to break us down. But I was a crazy one. No, no, no. Because I think it's too narrow. I don't think we're just talking about white supremacy or racism right now. I think we're talking about the idea that you are better than anyone. And I think, and when you look at John Walker, the difference between John Walker

like we already talked about. And Sam is that John Walker thinks he's better than these people, right? Like he thinks that he's better than them. And because he thinks that he's better than them, it makes him make all of these mistakes. To me, everyone is trying to stop this thing that they feel like makes them supreme.

Even the flashmasters themselves, right? They started operating in a world where they felt a part of that world. And then what happened to them is that world came back and then they were put on the lower rung of the totem pole yet again not getting what they needed not getting the respect and the visibility they thought that they deserved and not getting like their humanity placed on the same level as other people and throughout this entire deal what we see is is that the idea of supremacy even in the power broker himself or herself somebody who can make you better than somebody else that's That is the enemy here. That's why Sam is going to end up making the best Captain America because he's the only person that is trying to connect with everybody,

no matter who they are. And so I think that this episode kind of mapped that out so clearly for me. Well, I think everybody also, all of the antagonists made a turn. Carly, when she's talking to Sam, Sam points out, Carly, you're talking like your God. Exactly. How are you different from everyone else? Her supremacy becomes the villainous kind of turning her.

Exactly. Yeah. And then we have the turn with John Walker. And throughout this whole thing, Sam is the only person who doesn't want more power. Right. Who doesn't want. And I think if we take it back to the original Captain America movie, Captain America didn't, wasn't chasing after the Super Soldier serum.

It wasn't until he jumps on the grenade that people are like, this is a man who wants to fight, whether he's a hundred pounds or whether he's jacked up on the super soldier. Absolutely. He's doing it for the right reasons. And Sam throughout this, we realize, oh, this is his moment where he's jumping on the grenade because they're all like, Sam, are you going to go in there with a super soldier alone? And that's metaphorically, his jumping on the grenade moment. Like, he doesn't care. He can die in this moment, but he thinks he can talk to him. Absolutely. Steve Rogers was born with his superpower.

Yes. The enhancements only made it matter. They see that in the episode. They say the Super Soldier Serum only enhances. It only enhances. And to a degree, like, we're all born with these amazing powers and like inside of us as people. And we just want those things to matter to people. But, you know, we don't have Abraham Erskine to fucking, you know, hit us with some Viterase and all that stuff like that.

Okay. We're almost about to get out of here. do me a favor. It's time for a running thing that we're going to do, which we can't do it too many more times. I've only got two more episodes. Power broker power rankings. Give me your top five people

that you feel like the power broker. Five, I only had. Don't have to be five. Let's do top three people that you feel like power bank, power broker. Number one on the list, Sharon Carter. Okay. Number two on the list,

Barren Zimo. Uh-huh. Number three on the list. Ooh, what am I going to go with? What am I going to go with for number three? You know what? I'm going to go with a, with an old school villain. I think his name is Jekyll from the Marvel universe.

What the fuck you're talking about? Yeah. You don't know what I'm talking. I do know. But why? Mr. Hyde. Henry Jekyll, Spider-Man villain. I'm going to go with him.

Number three. Stop, stop. We're stop listening to this. Stop going down these YouTube rabbit holes. is like, we got 77 Easter eggs in one minute for the, like, you know, like, we're asking you, I didn't ask you to put on your brainiac brain and go, tell me, well, tell, make the case that is Jekyll. Make the case that is Jekyll. All right, because he is a part of the Young Avengers storyline where Eli, we realize,

is pumping himself full of MGMH mutant growth hormone. I'm pulling that out because we saw Eli. I'm just like, who? and might be M. My P. But he's my third. I think it's sharing. You know who I think it is?

I think it's good, cool. I think it's the living tribunal then. I think since we're going, it's obscure. I think it's the one above all. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? No, I think it's the molecule man, Owen Reese. Give me your top three, man. Give you your top.

Right. Okay, this is my top three. My top. But it's Rorschach. I think it's Rorschach. Right. My number one is actually Thunderbolt Ross. I think my number one is Thunderbolt Ross.

You're getting on me for Mr. Hyde, and you just said Thunderbolt Ross. At least Thunderbolt. Unless Thunderbolt Ross has been in the MCU, and we see how this is leading toward the Thunderbolts, which you yourself has said that this is leading towards the Thunderbolt, so I don't know what's wrong with you. Thunder Bowl Ross?

Fine. Thunderbolt Ross. What's you're two and three? Thunderball Ross. That's ridiculous. Number two. is Zimo. Okay. Same number two.

And then number three is Sharon Carter. I just think he would be too on the nose if it were Sharon Carter. Actually, I doubted Zimo. I doubted Zimo. I almost want to put, you know who my number two is? I think this would be really crazy. Zemo's not my number two. Isaiah Bradley is my number two.

Let's wrap this show up. Let's wrap it. The Midnight Boys have broken up, y'all. I'm sorry. We love you for him. It would be so crazy if it was Isaiah Bradley. If it was Isaiah Bradley, it would be so crazy. I'm telling you.

Oh, guys, guys, Van has a little bit of white stuff below his mustache today. He's on one. Oh, I thought maybe I did. I was just looked at the camera. I was like, what? You know, it's getting in the morning. So it could be a fucking thing. That is it for us.

I say, we are done. Tuesday. Check in with Mallory, man. Check in with Mallory on Tuesday. She's going to do a deeper dive into the Falcon and the Winter Soldier episode four. And she'll also be answering your mailback questions, mailback questions that you can submit to her via all of the Ring ofverse socials. At Ringerverse, all over the place.

Pepper Mallory with questions. Give her some work to do. All right. We will see you guys again next week. The Midnight Boys are out. We will ride again. We will ride again. We'll see you.

guys then, keep watching. The Dora against Mortal Kombat coming out. Who wins? Who, interesting. The Dora Melaget against which Mortal Kombat character? No, like you take like 12 of them

against the most popular characters like Sub-Zero Scorpion, all of them. Well, they have special powers. Everybody in the room had special powers. They're fine super soldiers. But the Dora Malagia doesn't have special powers. They don't need them. Accordingly, they beat,

they beat Bucky and they didn't need it. How much time do the Dora have to prepare for this? I will say this. They're always prepared, like Batman. So they know everybody's powers. They know how to... Well, Sub-Zero is going to shoot ice beans at them. It's like, I mean, you know what I'm saying?

They're prepared, though. They're prepared. Well, if you're telling me that there's some kind of Wakanda technology that can prepare them for... That's their superpower. They have shirry in their corner. I still probably going to take the Mortal Kombat people. I mean to. Me too.

Because the Mortal Kombat people are like fighters of legend and stuff like that. You know what I mean? But like some zero is going to shoot. They don't have a fatality. Like the door, the door don't have a fatality. So. Yeah. They fight Raiden.

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