The Ringer-Verse - 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' Season Finale Instant Reactions

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

The Midnight Boys ride again for the season finale of 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier'. They give their immediate thoughts on the epic conclusion of the MCU series (04:32). They also break down what they think of the newest Capitan America and share their top three MCU costumes of all time (10:17), all before breaking down what else they would like to see out of the MCU going forward. Hosts: Van Lathan & Charles Holmes Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

ringer verse, Van Lathen, the host of Higher Learning with Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay, with Charles Holmes, the host of the Ringer music show. But together, we are known as the Midnight Boys. The Midnight Boys. All right. Wait, how does that feel? That might be our last pew, pew, pew, you know? Are they going to green light of season two is this the end?

That's that genuine love. You guys don't know that song. But welcome into the Ringierverse, the Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things, fandom. All right. Now, we have had six weeks locked on the Falcon and the Winter Soldier. This, of course, is the instant reaction show with me and Charles and Midnight Boys. Tuesday,

Mallory gives you all of the deeper dive information along with your mailback questions, which she answers on that Tuesday show. So if you want those mailback questions answered, you got to get them in to all of our socials, Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, that's

at Ringerverse. For adults with Crohn's disease or also cognitive colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease

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It was a fantastic episode. How'd that feel? How'd the feel putting on your analysis pants rather than wearing your instant reaction pants? Oh, man, the House of Mal. It was an honor, but it was more so in honor because Mal was not feeling very well. And to see her brain operating at such a high frequency when she's sick, I was just like, oh, my gosh. Like, if I was sick, I was like, I'm not even forming sentences. So it was literally like watching Jordan go off for the flu game.

I was, oh, man, Mal is a legend. She's amazing. And you were Scotty Pippin. Did she have to get intravenous IV of Gatorade? Was that a real story? Did that really happen? That's so fake. I still, I still, of the conspiracy theory that he just got, he had a hangover and he ate some bad pizza.

But I guess I was Scotty Pippen. And next week, you're going to be with Mal. going to be at the House of Mail. How is, how are you excited? I'm very excited. I'm very excited. Speaking of guests, we're going to have Shay Serrano on Sunday. We're going to react to Mortal Kombat. All right. Mortal Kombat movie came out. I've seen the Moral Combat movie. If you want to know my thoughts on Moral Combat, then you got to come back Sunday. And we have a lot more new stuff that's going to be coming out. The feed is growing. The fandom is out there. So we're going to be doing a lot more of that in the coming weeks.

Now, we've got to get to episode six of the Falcon and New Orleans Soldier. That is entitled One World, One People. Here's the deal. We're going to go into episode six. So if you haven't seen it yet, L. Spoilers are L. coming. All right, we're going to give you some hot takes, all of that stuff, Midnight Boy Style, Poo-Pew. But the shooting from the hip is about

to start now. So, If you haven't watched the episode, go watch the episode, and come on back. All right. With that said, 40-second recap starts now. Sam and his new cap suit fly into battle versus Betrock and the flag smashers at the GRC convention. John Walker and his new Costco cap shield show up for revenge. But they hear the battle, he decides to save people instead. Sharon has been confirmed as a power broker, but she conceals our identity by killing Batrock and Carly, the only two characters who know that.

With the fight now over, Sam convinces the GRC to change policy as the new country watches their Captain America takes inner age. Walker then suits up as U.S. agent. Bucking completes a do-do list of a man. Sam, in an emotional scene, pays homage to Isaiah Bradley, the first black Captain America. In the title sequence, the MCU confirmed Sam as the new Captain America in the postcards we see Sharon back in the government, but now doubling is a power broker. Made it. Oh, Steve, what's the time? Let's get the official time.

3756. Damn. Wow. Okay. Okay. I see. I see. Daddy got it right.

Dad. Happy learned how to a 40-second recap. All right. Charles, initial reactions to this episode overall. This is the finale. We learn it all. The power broker is Sharon Carter. All the loose ends seemingly are tied up for your instant thoughts.

I honestly love the episode. I think historically speaking, the MCU has like a shaky history of third acts. But yeah, I thought I thought the finale did everything I wanted it to. Was it a little over earnest? Was it corny? And here he is,

yes, do I have some issues with the capsuit? Maybe. But there was a moment in this episode where I shed like one thug tear. It just rolled down my eye. I didn't do.

And we'll talk about it later. So I think like they stuck the landing. And I honestly, after watching it, I was like, damn, they did it. I was just the main. that they did it. What about you? How are you feeling about the series finale? The series finale just confirms that they turned Falcon into Captain America.

The show was able to do that. They turned Falcon into Captain America. I said Al-Shullo's last week's episode to where I felt like he really, really proved that he could be Captain America. But they were able to turn Falcon into Captain America in this episode, a very, very impressive way. So I enjoyed it for that. I don't think the suit really works. The suit doesn't work. We need to talk about it. I don't think the suit really works. Let's put on my Reynolds Woodcock or Tim Gunn hat for a second, man.

It's ugly. It's ugly. It doesn't look like something that he should be wearing. It doesn't. It looks a little, it looks like a costume. And Marvel's a great job. It is a comic book accurate. We'll give it that.

Oh, it's very comic book accurate. But Marvel's done a good job of making these battle suits look sort of tactical and not very costumy. And this looked like a costume. It looks like something that he's wearing it and it's kind of out of place in that way. So the suit doesn't really work. But they'll get better out of the suit.

But if we're going through the history of Captain America, we've got to be real. The one that he wore in First Avenger and the Captain America's suit in Avengers were both god awful in my opinion. Yeah. And they got better over time. They got better.

And I do think that like, if we're looking at that budget constraints, I will say like he wears this suit for probably a total of probably 15 or 20 minutes. So I'm going to, I'm going to hope the next time we see Captain America, they go back in the lab, maybe they call Virgil Ablo. They sprinkle a little bit of sauce on it because my man was looking like a power range out here. Not great as far as the suit's concerned.

Okay. But I will say the episode itself worked for me. I always look at penultimate episodes as normally the best episodes of the season. Like normally the second to last episode, Game of Thrones did that for years. And then Jammer Thrones did that with their actual entire show where the second to last season was much much better than the last season. It's just difficult tying up loose ends and letting people breathe out at the end of a season. It's just something that's difficult to do,

especially for these big adventure pieces. So I liked the episode. I imagined that I have some of the same problems with it that you did. A couple of scenes went too long in Sam being a great guy and a good guy. I don't know. Yes. It's whatever. But I do think that the final battle in New York

just was executed from an action standpoint flawlessly. I think the action was brilliant. I think the funny thing is like this last episode to be had the same problems that Wanda Vision season finale or series Vennel head. The exact same thing. Where it's just like they do such a good episode. I mean, they do such a good job building up this emotional tension,

and make us care about the characters, and then they have to put on their goof hats and be like, all right, now it's like the big set pieces and everybody's going to have a big speech about what they're doing. And I'm like, oh, man, guys. Right. And we could have cut this. And these Marvel television shows have to figure out a way

to get that part of it right. To get this. It took the movies a while to, like, fix their third act problems. If we're being real. I mean, yeah, to a degree. But at the same time, I think that the TV shows move in a different pace. because they're episodic. So because they're episodic

and you have to wait a week between getting them, some of the things that you do wrong might be a little bit more glaring than an entire, if you're just sitting in the theater one time with your popcorn and you're still remembering a scene

from a couple of scenes ago and you're still riding on a high. Movies have to hit less actual beats to get you out of their good than a TV show because you've been waiting a whole week and you've been building up anticipation, you've been posting on Twitter

and all of that stuff like that. Let's talk about the new suit, not from an aesthetic standpoint, but from a battle standpoint for a second. It's got some new extra cool things that he's doing. Red Wing is back. We hadn't seen Red Wings since the beginning. Are there two Red Wings now?

They look like they're two red wings. Ooh. They're red winging's. He's red wings. You know, he's got some pro wings from back in the day to those shoes that if you wore him on the bus, people will smack your mouth. He's got a red wing. He's got a vibranium shield.

and he's got like extra power. You see he lifted that truck up and stuff like that. Yeah, that's the wing's new design. It also seems like the force that kind of like propels him to fly is a little bit like more oomph. And I do think weirdly the suit doesn't look that bad in action as it does when Sam is standing still. When he's standing still, I'm like, this is goofy. When it's in action, you're like, oh, that's pretty cool. I see it.

Right. In action, though, it's because it's probably largely like C. but when he's actually wearing the costume, you're like, damn, this homie, he looked like he'd come into somebody birthday party. Wait, really quick, really quick. If we do a tangent really quick, what do you think are like the top three suits

in the Marvel Cinematic? What a fantastic question. TD told us that he was like, you should ask this. I'm like, I have mine right off the top. Well, okay, give me yours first. It has to be, honestly, any of the Iron Man suits. I think Iron Man, they got Iron Man 100% correct from the beginning, from the jump. I pick whatever one.

Two, Captain America Winter Soldier Suit. Perfect Captain America suit. Wish they never would have got rid of it. Third, it's a two-way tie between Star Lord. It was good. And Black Panther. Because I think they made Black Panther way cooler, look way cooler than he's ever looked in the comics. Okay.

So my number one is Black Panther. I think it's a perfect suit. Okay. My number two, because it was, the difficulty was so high, to me was Dr. Strange. Because- You're widely here. I tell you why it's Dr. Strange. Number two is Dr. Strange because it would have been so easy for Dr. Strange to look so crazy,

hokey, and he actually looks cool to me. Like, Dr. Strange would be my number two. Hey, it's my list, baby. You're the only person in America who like stands for Dr. Strange, man. I love Dr. Strange, okay? It's my list. I got Dr. Strange at two. I love it.

Okay, I love it. Fine, fine. What's your number three? What's your number three, man? What's your number three, man? That's interesting. I would have to say Iron Man's suit from end game. End game.

Okay, okay. Yeah, Iron Man suit from in game or more to the point, Iron Man's suit from Infinity War, the nanotech joint. That joint is just so cold, bro. that joint is so cold. All right, so let's get back on track. But yes, I think they screwed the pooch on this. But hey, it took Steve Rogers three movies to get a good suit.

So it's fine. Sam becoming cap. He introduces himself in a scene as Captain America. He has now accepted the mantle. He is now okay with being Captain America. And for the rest of the episode, you see other characters react. Hey, is that Black Falcon? No, that's Captain America.

The making of Sam into Captain America in this episode, heavy-handed or is it what they had to do? I think it's very heavy-handed. But as heavy-handed as it was, I think, like, when they were showing, they pan to, like, a crowd of just solely black people and, like, all cheering. And I'm like, guys, this is not the Obama inauguration. What are we here? All right, guys.

But I will say, sometimes I think we forget that these are also, these need to operate as like big action movies or as honestly like kids entertainment as well. So like you and me might be like, all right, this is a little like too much. But I think they had to sell it. I think in that way they had to be like, no, he is Captain America now get on board. So I wasn't that mad about it. And there was one line he said that I think honestly was like the crux of it. And I might be fast forwarding too much. But he goes to Isaiah and he says at one point,

shit I might fail, I might die, but we built this country, led for it. I'm not going to let anybody tell me I can't fight for it, not after what everybody who came before me went through.

And that, for all the hokeyness, all the cornyness, once he said that, I'm like, I'm on board. Fuck it. Like, he's my guy. And to be honest with you,

that is the counter argument to Isaiah Bradley's argument in the last episode. And this is an argument that that black America is faced with. The argument is, okay, America has never done what it says it was supposed to do for black people. All right.

So does that mean we become non-participatory in America? We just say, fuck it, forget about it. We walk away from it, whatever. Then there's a counter argument to that that says, hey, the way to pay off the dream, the way to pay off the debt, the way to give tribute and to recognize what so many black people fought for, right? if we're talking about slavery into reconstruction, into Dr. King, Malcolm, everybody like that.

All of these people that were trying to Langston Hughes and Ella Baker and Fannie Lou Hammer and, you know, all of these people, if we stop, then what they did doesn't even matter. And they went out and really put it on the line so that we could be in TV shows and talk about these things and do all of this stuff. And if that momentum stops,

that we're making their lives worthless, right? And so that's the counter argument to, to Isaiah Bradley. Like, we're more American in terms of that than almost anybody. Like, our ancestors have earned it. Like, we put it into work. Of course, we have to fight for all of that freedom.

That's paying off their legacy and their debt and all of that stuff like that. So, you know, that's sort of giving America a look at kind of the conversations that we have intra-community. I thought he did it well. I thought he did it well. I thought that scene

as a sort of juxtaposition to the GRC scene when he's talking to the GRC and trying to talk them into new policy. The GRC scene when he's talking to this new policy didn't work for me. Oh, it went, I thought,

like at one point I'm like, all right, this scene is working and it went on for like an extra like two or three minutes. And I was like, all right, we got to cut this. This is the cornyest shit I've ever seen.

Like, I honestly don't even think you needed that scene as much as the Isaiah scene. Because the Isaiah scene did it way more poetically with none of the coin shit. But I also, watching the whole thing, I started to realize that like the theme of not only this episode, but the whole series started to coalesce because I started even questioning watching it. I'm like, in America especially, who gets to write the past, who gets to honor the past, who gets to change it, who gets to forget it. And I think the thing that really worked for me

is that Sam is finally the one who gets to decide to chart a path forward for Captain America by not only moving past Steve Rogers, but by honoring Isaiah Bradley. Bucky finally breaks free not only of his past of the Winter Soldier Brainwashing, but also I think

of a history that was written by white people. And throughout this whole thing, he is still in this, like, we did what we had to do, the greatest generation. Why are you? you, like, why are you guys challenging me? And I think he finally realized that, like, oh, it's not up to me to uphold this past because there was only one sort of person who could write it, which was Rich White Man.

And now when we get to that scene of Sam showing the statue of Isaiah to Isaiah and he cries, I almost teared up a little bit because- I did cry. It was beautiful because I'm like, oh, finally, Sam as Captain America, gets to start honoring a legacy and a past that America wanted to destroy. And I thought that was beautiful. So for me, very rarely in a show, do you get to see somebody unerased? Erasure is the most debilitating thing. People always, and look, more work gets done when nobody gets the credit.

But when you have lived your life in genuine service, when you live your days in genuine, genuine service to man. And then not only do you get erased from that, but you get penalized for it, it is so debilitating and it is so destructive, not just to you, it makes you into a weapon. Because bitterness is almost as contagious as COVID. You give your bitter off to other people.

You're bitter. So then you make them bitter. And so then they make somebody else bitter. And by the time you know it, there's a whole group of people who are embittered. And now they're living less full, free, and alive lives because they can't see past what's wrong. Right. So anytime you have a chance to erase bitterness or make it taste good again, you should. And then for him to see himself, for him to stand there and see himself immortalized. strong, where he needed to be,

it just gives you hope that one day other people who feel erased and not heard will be able to get the same thing and that there'll be somebody with the strength and the wherewithal more than that to go back and make sure that people who need to be seen get seen. Because remember, if you look at it, Sam is such down on his thing. He doesn't agree with Isaiah. He doesn't have to go back and make sure that people know Isaiah. He's Captain America now.

It's a team effort for the people that came before us to get there just due. Like if you're sitting here, you get this mic in front of your face. I got this mic in front of my face. All the people that need these platforms, we got to be a little bit more like Sam. So when I saw that, it just really affected me emotionally. I was happy for Isaiah. I was happy for his legacy and for Eli. I will say not to get you to like deep or serious, but as a kid, I never understood.

Like my grandparents helped raise me, and I never understood why they would like do these little things. Like they would go to like a college for Black History Month and they would set up exhibits for the kids. And sometimes I'd be watching like these kids don't care. Or like my grandfather would talk about his service and being one of the only black engineers back in the day. And I was just like, who's going to remember this? And I started tearing up. I was like, oh shit, like no wonder he wanted to get to not only give himself credit, but give the other black people. he's working with credit because I, until I got older, I didn't realize how much it hurt when you put your all into something and then people forget you or you don't get honored for it and you're seeing everybody else get it. And to me, like, seeing that represented on screen of like Isaiah finally getting to see himself honored was just like amazing because you don't realize like how many of the people that raise you every day never got that. Never get that same way. never get like the position that we're in.

So I like, I was just like, ah, they did it. Like I was so, it was great. That's amazing. It's amazing. So now, Bucky, Bucky becomes a part of society again. He goes, completes his winter soldier amends. And he actually becomes real friends with Falcon. Him and Sam are now actually buddies. They're not begrudgingly together to not move your seat up.

it's now sit right next to me. You know what I mean? Like they're pals now. They ended up having fun down in Louisiana at the end of the episode. What did you think about their entire situation and what do you feel like is next for them? Because it made it seem like

we're going to see them in partnership a little bit more. So that was also one of my favorite parts of the episode. Because after the whole like weird scene with Sam and the GRC and him in talking. walking to them, basically turns around, Bucky's there, and he, like, pats him on the back and he calls him cap. And, like, that to me, I was like, Bucky finally is, like, he's proud of Sam.

And then when they're down with his family, it's the perfect, everybody, everybody comedy, buddy cop film, buddy adventure movie, always has to have the feel-good scene where these two people that were at odds, get together, the music cues, and, like, you get a montage of them just being best buds. And to me that was, oh, man, I loved it. But I have to give, I've been hard on Bucky, I will say.

My man's dirty macking again because he comes in. He's playing with the kids. And then he has his bionic arm out. And Sarah's kids are doing pull-ups on it. I'm like, damn, you Bucky, these good looks. It's not like dirty macking to me. It's not dirty macking. To me, that's what has to happen, baby.

We got to, like Sam and Buck got to, wow, you're fighting this. They got to join their houses. They got to join their houses, bro. I want to see little biracial kids. I want to see biracial super soldiers taken over. You know what I mean? Because like, Sam, biracial super soldiers. You know what I mean?

Bageman is what I want to see. I want to see. Oh, my God. I don't want to see a Drake-looking motherfucker running around with a bionic. That's what I want to see. I want to see a Drake could play him. In the future, Drake could play. Drake could play him.

Bage Wolf. Drake could play them in the future. Because they're going to have the Super Soldier serum, right? So they're going to have the Super Soldier. I want to see a bunch of little Steph Currys. Well, not Steph, but Clay, definitely.

I want to see a bunch of a bunch of clays running around with these powers and it's like, join their houses. I'm going to say this. As a member of a light-skinned mafia, do you know how dangerous it is for a Super Soldier to be simping out here?

that's very dangerous. It would be very dangerous, but the reality is this, I don't think there are enough light skin heroes in the MCU. I don't. I think it's the time of the light skin. We're getting into a new era of the

MCU, and I think this is the perfect era. You put them together, you got all the heart in the Louisiana side, you got, you know what I mean? Don't you drink somewhere like... And then we could go after this, but be bad if I have to watch a movie where a beige superhero is like my black side doesn't

accept me and neither does my white side I'll literally walk out of the theater I'll walk out that's the weakness that's the that's the one weakness right there that's the kryptonite that's the kryptonite other man take goodbye it's almost like aquaman you know aquaman got two different worlds and neither world accepts other man Anyway. When we get off, Bucky, how did you feel like at the end? I actually love this. At the end, they changed the credits.

So instead of the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, it's Captain America and the Winter Soldier. But part of me for Bucky, I was like, damn, Bucky don't get a change. No, Bucky's done too much. I went back and watched Winter Soldier. Bucky kills so many people. Bucky, I keep talking about this. Bucky, I can't, I don't feel for Bucky. I'm happy for Bucky when it happens, but Bucky did a lot.

Captain America and the Winter Soldier, I'm glad that they were able to make this. I'm glad that these guys are now friends. I'm glad that the movie ended on sort of a lighter, the lighter side of things. Because it really felt like they really pulled it off. It felt like a complete circle closed in terms of how things were at the end of the show

and how things were at the beginning of the show. So they really did that well. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping, then you'd want a cargo liner, or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step

into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Boris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep-fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead, you know,

just did that. Bursing with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it, presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Borashead. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Borgeshead committed to craft since 1905. Carly's character, for me it felt like even though she was, you know, in this episode a ton, you know, she dies, she becomes a martyr. Still something wasn't really realized about this character for me. I was expecting something a little bit more grandiose

or maybe a little different from her. Did you buy her becoming a martyr? Did you buy the way they got rid of her? They killed her. Marvel killed another villain. They love killing their villains. I don't know why they love killing their villains so much. What did you think about Carly in this episode?

I think I'm not the only one in this camp where I think the flag smashers were like the weakest part of the Falcon and the Winter Soldier throughout this whole run and I think I didn't buy it I didn't buy her becoming a martyr I wasn't even sad when she died to be honest with you I wasn't either had no connection to the character none and I think the biggest kind of like I think sin of this is because there was so many more interesting antagonists whether that was Zemo can Tessa, U.S. agent. I was just like, can we get them? Like, I honestly think if there were to rewrite this whole season, you can get rid of the Flagsmasters. And this would be bumped up a whole other star. A whole other. Interesting. Interesting.

I like what the Flacksmasters are fighting for. I don't think that Carly was, had the Chops as a character to really bring it out. Well, they never really wanted her to be too much of anything. which is hard. They wanted her to be a sympathetic character, obviously. So she was never bad enough to really hate and she was never good enough to really love. So it becomes a character that you're kind of ambivalent about.

It's like you can see both sides of it. So because you can see both sides of it, you really kind of don't want to see any side. Whereas Walker made such a turn. He made such a turn that it was easy. to feel really, really strong feelings about the character. Now, I do feel like they undid some of that with John Walker in this episode. And I don't know if that was even super artfully done.

I think it was very inartfully done, like kind of how they undid John Walker's breaking bad turn, as you put it, in this episode. Talk about him a little bit. Like, there's not much to talk about Carly. I mean, Zimo takes out her entire deal, so they almost. don't exist anymore, but John Walker gets back on the right side of things in this one. That was another thing that bothered me, and it was seeing the seams of what Kevin Feigy is doing with the MCU, and what I mean by that is we see Walker break bad, and we see him represented throughout this whole season as everything that's wrong with this idea of imperialism and

American exceptionalism. And he's built up as this character that's created by the government, this pure ideal of a soldier. And when he breaks bad, it really, really like, coalesces a lot of themes of the story. So for him then to have this redemptive arc

right at the end, and then basically get a new suit and team up with all of them and save the day, it rang hollow to me. It was just kind of like, oh, they're setting up something else, and they couldn't really give him

satisfying bow on his story because he has to show up in a bunch of different other properties. And that rubbed me the wrong way, even though his new black suit is pretty dope. His new black suit is pretty dope. He is officially now U.S. agent. I almost wish he wouldn't have been in this episode at all. I think that they could have easily done something where he goes away and he is in some way. I didn't need to see his, there was too much story going on for me to need to see his redemptive arc or his redemptive moments

in this right now. They could have showed him in holding somewhere and we could have got back at him. They could have had one scene where somebody comes up to him. We're going to give you another chance and give you a suit. And now you're a U.S. agent. I didn't need to see him out there with his weird broken up shield. I didn't

need to see any of that stuff. Wait, can we also just talk? They built him up throughout this whole season as this expert fighter. He is the dude. He is the soldier of soldiers. And this group of untrained flag smashers handed him his ass. They were like literally stomping the like the life out of my boy. And I'm just like, wait,

really? Well, I mean, a lot of the fights in this didn't really make sense. Sam fights Betrach the Leaper and really doesn't win that fight. You know, Sam really seems like he's really more of a paramedic version of Captain America. Like he really, in this episode, it shows, this episode seem to be, the themes seem to be that heroes save and not necessarily fight.

Because saving people seem to be a noble thing, more noble thing in this episode than actually fighting people. Because it's not like a bunch of fights are won by our heroes in this one. That's not really what happens, right? Whereas if you look at endgame, in game was a fight that had to be won. It was a fight that could not be lost. Everything was on the line if they lost.

They've gone away from that. And now it's about how we stop hurting each other, how the GRC stops hurting each other, how Falcon and Sam and how everyone stops hurting each other. And now that the world has been saved, we have to figure out all how to get along in it. And that's kind of what you saw the heroes doing in this a little bit more. You saw the, in this episode, you saw the killers kill and the heroes save.

Because Sam didn't beat Batroc. Sam was, no, they didn't everybody. I mean, he held, he held it down. Yeah, he held it down. I will say for the set pieces for Sam that were like, he's Captain America now, they did a very good job of showing everything that he can do that, Steve Rogers couldn't. Like when he throws the shield out of the building,

catches it in midair, like smashes through the helicopter. I was like, this is pretty like, that was cool. Like even when he catches the cop, he lands on the bridge, and then like he makes like a shield with his wings. I'm like, I'm not going to lie,

this still looks good. I do think the fighting didn't live up to what I want because he's not kicking anybody's ass. But like the stunts, I was like, oh, this is pretty. No. And he's not super, superpowers. So maybe hand-to-hand combat is not going to be his thing,

but he's obviously an incredibly capable superhero and a very worthy Captain America in doing it the way that he's done it. Back to Walker real quick. Everybody's just boys. Remember the scene in, I think it was Civil War where he goes, I remember you. You used to put newspaper in your shoes or something like that.

And then Sam goes, so we just all cool now? you know what I mean? It's kind of the same thing. Exactly. Just had tried to kill them. He had just tried to, and everybody's just boising it. When Bucky turns to him,

Walker, like, Walker quotes him, like, Lincoln quote and like, fuck, he's like, Lincoln, really? I was just like, wait, they're friends now? You just saw this man, kill someone in Broad Day. Y'all were like, we're stealing the shield from him. Sam breaks his arm, and now they're all,

like, buddy, buddy. I was just like, all right, guys. Like, come on. We could have done this a little bit more artfully. Yeah, no, I get it. But look, he's with Val at the end. He's now U.S. agent. Don't know where U.S. agent is going to go now.

I didn't see them really set up the thunderbolts as they, as I thought that they were going to. So I don't, there's not, they didn't give us a real blueprint for where they're going next. And part of that is in the reveal that Sharon Carter was actually the power broker. guys, we WandaVisioned ourselves again. We did it to ourselves again. Marvel fans, we have got to stop flogging ourselves. We're engaged in self-harm around the theories to these shows. As much as I like this show,

in both WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Marvel is showing that they are significantly less inventive than their fans are. Whoa, whoa, whoa, is it less inventive? This is what I thought. They were like, it's shared. I'm just like, oh, this makes perfect sense. Because I think what we keep forgetting is I'm like,

guys, they're basically making six to eight movies every single week. Their budget is not that high. I'm like, why the fuck did we ever expect the power broker to be this big person? I'm like, they can always like pay so many actors. Like, there's only so much Disney has given them. And in each thing, we're just like, are there Sentinels? Mephisto? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm just like, maybe we should just stop guessing at this point. Like, Loki, I'm done with the guessing. Like, we're... No guessing. Whatever, Loki, whatever they say is on the screen is on the screen. No theories. We're done. The Midnight Place are done with our fucking fantastical guessing.

Because fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. Come on now. I had it as the Mandarin, Isaiah Bradley. you had it as fucking Jekyll. Like, we were going over fucking bored. And by the way, let's leave Mephisto alone.

All right. We like Lil Nas X. We dancing with the devil too much. Like, let's leave Mephisto alone. Everybody's likes Mephisto. And I will say, I'm instituting a Midnight Boys rule. I'm never bringing up the Moutons again.

Until I get a NextMen trailer, I'm never bringing up the Mutes ever again. The biggest thing about the mutants was Mastroport. So Madrapore lets you know that the Mewton kind of kind of almost like when they brought in Wakanda in Age of Ultron. And they introduced the vibranium.

They brought in Wakanda in Age of Ultron. They introduced the vibranium. And you're like, okay, you know that Black Panther is coming. So, you know, we really riled ourselves up when they were telling us that it was sharing the entire time. And we didn't, wait, but is it shared? This is the one moment where I'm like, is it sharing?

Because we get a stinger where basically she gets, At the end, to his word, Sam gets her a part in. She's in front of this big committee. She gets her job back at Shield. She walks out. She calls someone. And she's basically like, hey, we back in business.

We got everything. And I'm like, who is she calling the real power broker? Like, does she work for the power broker? Like, who is she calling? Nick Fury? I was going to say Contessa. I think is Nick Fury. Interesting.

Because I think, I don't know who, I don't know how Nick Fury is getting funded right now being that he's really not a government operative anymore. He's kind of working with different people. It could be Contessa, but I think that she's still, I think she's still working with Nick Fury. I think that Nick Fury is kind of off-grid or whatever, and he's going to need a lot of stuff to get whatever he is done that he needs to get done. And I think that's what she called. I think that's what Nate Moore said.

He's the executive producer of this and a bunch of other stuff. He said, quote, whenever we talked about Valentina, even in the writer's room, she was sort of a more acerbic, funnier, but darker Nick Fury, someone who knows her secrets, who's not afraid to operate in the moral gray area, but maybe who isn't as inherently altruistic. And that is exactly how Sharon is moving as well. And we get a scene where Contessa, basically Zemo's butler, kills the rest of the flak smashers. And Contessa is just like, was that me? Might have been.

Who knows? So if we're talking about the two Kind of evil, maybe not gray area characters That we were introduced to Contessa and Sharon Carter Seems like they might be working together That's my guess

I still say it's Fury Because Fury's gang is just so loyal to him Like anyone who's ever worked under Nick Fury So loyal to him Why did Fury leave Sharon out there in the cold? Well, I don't know if Fury left Shannon out there in the cold. Ooh, maybe not.

I think we were made to think that he left Sharon out there in Nicole, but I don't know that he necessarily left Sharon out there, Nicole. I think that, you know, Nick is operating in a very specific way. He might need eyes on the ground, and he might need to have somebody that's very powerful in the world's most dangerous city, so he knows what's going on. And he also, so he can do one thing that she always did in this episode, which is keep Sam and Buck safe.

Because even though she was the power broker, in this episode, in this series, shall I say, she always kept them safe. She always popped up whenever they needed her. There obviously is something for whoever she's working with that wants to keep those OG sort of guys upright. Because if not, you know what I mean? Why would she be doing some of the things that she's doing?

I will say this. Spellman told EW that basically this series is green lighting, a bunch of other series. We know that there's going to be a secret invasion. Amelia Clark, shout out. She's in it now from Game of Thrones. Here's my thought.

Is Nick Fury trying to amass an army for the invasion that he thinks is already coming or already there with the scrolls on Earth? And I think one of the reasons he might need to keep Bucky and Sam safe is that technically there's not Avengers

anymore. A bunch of the heroes are off, like are off wherever they are. So is he potentially, trying to not only make more super soldiers to battle the scrolls, but he's also trying to like keep like an Avengers little contingent there whenever

the scrolls make their final move. That's maybe what I'm thinking. Might be. It might be, but he's cool with the scrolls though right now. Is he not? He's like, he's like down with the scrolls. No, he's down with two scrolls that like went off a little bit. Went off a little bit

and in the comic books. The scrolls are not like a monolith. There's like, They're not. There's good scrolls. And there's like an evil scrolls. And then there's evil scrolls. Right. So he,

they're definitely not. Or it might be Creece scroll war, but that's another. Could be Creece scroll roar. Creescroll roar or Creece scroll roar. Are you okay? Creecegoal. What's going on?

What's going on? What's going on? Cree scroll war. It's crazy. Oh, I do want to come back to one thing. When John Walker arrives to attack Carly. and she says this is one of the most

hand-handed things that they did an episode and she goes I didn't mean to kill him I only mean to kill people that didn't matter and John goes are you saying Lamar's life

didn't matter and I'm thinking okay I'm not gonna lie that Carly line was a bar though it's like Black Lives Matter it's like yeah John Walker

that actually for a lot of people is going to be John Walker's good term because he's essentially at that point fighting on the side of Black Lives Matter. He's fighting for the life. I'm serious.

He became... Van. He became... In that situation, he was like Patrice Cullors. He's going to buy four houses around the world. After this, you know what I mean? Steve stopped the recording.

This man, this man is off the reservation. Oh my gosh. No, John Walker. John Walker, going to get $90 million donated to him. It's just jokes, everybody. I'm just... It's just jokes. next thing you're going to say

John Walker is going to have Deerey's little blue vest on like come on that would be dope that's what they should have made his shout out to my man Dorey McKess and they should have made him his suit could have been the blue vest some blue proof blue vest you know what I mean so shout out to shout out to Doree love

love everything that everybody's doing just playing around so so yeah I guess now the question is and we have to do this because this is how society is now was this show a better show than WandaVision.

I mean, we got a lot of political stuff in this show. By the way, for everyone who doesn't like the political stuff in this show. So when Sam is talking with the GRA, there are myriad different political subplots that you could argue that he's talking about. You could argue he's talking about Israel and Palestine. You can argue that he's talking about

refugee rights. You could argue that he's talking about so many different things that are heavy, real political issues in the world that we live in right now. You could argue that up and down. I guess my thing is Captain America is maybe the most political of cartoon characters.

His best movie, Captain America Winter Soldier, it's nothing but about politics. Right. The whole thing. Captain America, the character himself, started off to fight Hitler. So inherent in the Captain America mythos is politics.

So there's a lot of politics in this episode. Even the line, hey, that's Black Falcons. No, no, no, that's Captain America. There's a political message even there. Like, don't make him the black something. Yes. Make him Captain America.

You know what I mean? So there's a political message there. Like, we're as American as anyone else. So this stuff is layered throughout it off. So forget about all that. Just on its merit. Forget about whether or not we cry, whether or not we can relate.

Was this a better six-show run than WandaVision was? Is this better than WandaVision? I think this, I think, I think Falcon and the Winter Soldier is, a more effective TV show than Wanda Vision. I think that at the end of the day, the character journeys, I cared about it more. The stakes seemed higher.

Like, this will have more ramifications for the whole MCU than I think Wanda Vision will have. What I respected about the Falcon and the Winter Soldier is by the end of episode six, everybody's irrevocably changed. There's like the surface level, like Falcon is now Captain America. but you see somebody like Isaiah Bradley finally turning from being bitter to to crying and realizing that he's being honored. Like there's everyone is changed irrevocably. And the thing that I think I dislike probably most about Wanda Vision is that basically by the end of it, everyone's gone, vision's gone, the kids who knows where they are.

The whole city is in despair and she just leaves. And even the Quicksilver reveal is played for her jokes. And that to me was like, I was like, man, they didn't stick the landing as much. And I do enjoy that the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, there's going to be ramifications for the rest of these TV shows, the rest of these movies. And I think that was actually a bold choice. But what do you think? Am I crazy? Am I being a hater?

No. I think that if I'm forced to choose, this show ended up being better than Wanda Vision. Wanda Vision was just so crazy inventive. This show really wasn't. And I think that is actually going to be an interesting discussion amongst Marvel fans, because from having gotten so much content from them over the years, the question now becomes like, what is it that we want? Do we want these shows to continue to play out in much of the way that we saw them for the last 10 or 11 years?

Or do we want these super Easter eggy, wow situations? from these television shows because we got moments of that in both of these. But if we're being real and being honest, we didn't get the damn at the end of either one of these. They showed us kind of what the thing is. Yeah.

Okay? Moving forward. Which, if you think about it with Marvel, we never really get the damn. They tell you, at the end of Avengers, they show you Thanos. and they keep letting you know that Thanos is coming and the whole thing. It's not like in Infinity War,

Thanos just pops up. No, they let you nibble and then they give you the full meal. It's us. It's the fans that like all of the stuff we talk about is in between episodes, is in between movies. We build it up like there's always these big surprises.

And you're right. After every single movie, they're like, no, this is actually where we're going. You know what I mean? Yeah, I remember when in game, before Endgame was coming, I had people that were telling me Nova was going to come out

and we were going to get interest to Nova and Nova was going to help the Avengers win the final battle. I'm like, yo, they haven't or it was going to be Adam Warlock. There were so many things that we were doing. Not as much as you could do in a TV show like we talked about before because you don't have just one week in between things, but there were so many theories

out there. And you know, the show just ended. It wrapped everybody's characters up. Kill Carly. Zima and them blew up the rest of Flaskmasher, so I guess they're gone. There's still a lot of questions. We don't know who John Walker is going to work for now.

We don't know what Zemo's place in all of this is going to be. He's obviously still able to do some stuff from the raft. There's a lot of things that we still have left. We don't know who Sharon was talking to. Her being the power broker is actually anti-climatic. So here's the thing also from what you're saying. Do we give Falcon and the Winter Soldier more credit,

I think it was way more risky, actually, than Wanda Vision. I think creatively what Wanda Vision was doing was riskier. But balancing race, politics, the history of America within the span of six episodes,

I give it a little bit more credit. And even when they stumble, even when it's a little bit cornier, I'm like, guys, this is the first time they're doing this in the MCU. And I think I want to see these stories more. I now want to see

Shang Chi be able to do it. I want to see a Chinese character who comes to America having to deal with father issues, deal with becoming a superhero, feeling like he's not belonging. I want to see that. I want to see like an LGBTQ character

having to go through these things. And even if like Marvel doesn't get it totally right, I kind of give him a little bit of credit for even trying. Because like, what, they're probably one of the first superhero like studios to actually try.

Like DC's not even doing this yet. Yeah. They're trying to just make Superman work. And now we're at the point where we're just like, hey, we've got a black Captain America now. And even if some of it was corny, I'm just like, they did it though. And I felt it.

They did it though. You think Sam and Buck could have their own show moving forward even more than this. Do you want to see multiple seasons of the Falcon and the Winter Soldier? Captain America and Winter Soldier. I don't want them to have a show. I think they deserve a movie now. I think Captain America and the Winter Soldier should be a movie.

I think they just- So it moves on now. We add this to the Captain America franchise. This has got to be honest with everyone. The Captain America franchise, to me, is the premier solo hero franchise of the Marvel Universe. So there is huge shoes to feel moving on as Captain America. Huge shoes to feel.

But I will say this. As a TV show, I thought it was very good that they made this a TV show. show because this journey, I don't know if I would have wanted it to be a two and a half hour racial journey on the big street. I wanted them to get all that sheet out from the TV show. Racial journey. You want to know who can direct a really good black Captain America movie. Who?

I'm thinking my man, F. Gary Gray. F. Gary Gray? Yeah. I love F. Gary Gray. I think he could kill a Captain America movie. I think he's done a lot with the Fast and the Furious franchise. And this was kind of a fast and a fast and. the Furious style ending

where they all at a barbecue. It's family. What do you think? What would you want the storyline to be if we got a Captain America and Winter Soldier movie? I mean, one of my favorite characters

from the Falcon and the Winter Soldier comic book was The Natural, the kid who was just assassin for Hydra. He was amazing to me. I love the idea of Sam and Bucky being sort of street level of superheroes

because when Cap was Sam, he was more of a street-level superhero and more taking out guys. He wasn't really leading the Avengers into big, huge, intergalactic battles like Steve was. So, you know, I like to see how they connect more of being street-level heroes and dealing with guys like that to the larger scope of the MCU. But thinking about a villain right now is tough because Captain America doesn't have a very good Rose Gallery. No. Not at all. So I'd have to think about it.

You know, a villain could be. It could be Hydra Steve Rogers. That would be dope. But no, who would your villain be? I'm thinking we call it Captain America, Secret Avengers. We get Captain America, the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Black Widow, maybe throw one or two more in there, and we have them go up against Zemos Thunderbolts. That would work.

That's a great, that's a great, great fucking movie. Because I don't, because what I want, I want. I want, as a street level character, I would rather have Sam lead, like, a kind of, like, street level Avengers team that are kind of like spies, kind of like aren't afraid to get their hands dirty. And that leaves it open for them to maybe do,

like a young Avengers, do whatever. But keep, like, maybe the Captain America franchise because they did it with Civil War. Like, by Civil War, that's an Avengers. So keep it going. Give us the Secret Avengers, Dark Avengers, whatever you want to call it. That's what I'm going.

I'm with you. That's actually a great idea. That's a great idea. Okay, guys, look, the Falcon on a soldier is done, but you know it's not done? Guys, the Midnight Boys, we are here to stay. Woo, we're back. The Midnight Boys are coming every week.

We really appreciate the audience and the way the community has grown and how you guys have interacted with us on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, everybody who's following the Ring of Verse, the Midnight Boys are going to be here every single week. Next Friday, we're going to do the entire season recap of Invincible, another show that is like in the middle of their narrative and just taking off even more so, even though it's only got one episode left. Invincible is a fantastic show,

and we'll talk all about that next week. And then we're going to be gearing up to move us towards Loki in June. We're going to have some cool episodes to come in between the time that there is no MCU show on Disney Plus to talk about, but there's going to be plenty of other stuff that the Midnight Boys are going to be able to deal. Can we, let's peel it back real quick. Just repeal it back.

For the listeners, they don't know. I think, man, the Midnight Boys was just an idea that was crystallized, that just happened. But no, it was chemistry. Our journey was almost like Sam and Buckees. We were put together. It was literally the same thing. We were put together.

And then all of a sudden, before you know it, somebody's throwing the shield and somebody's catching it. Block it, boom. You know what I mean? Whipping it back off. And then we challenge each other. We challenge each other

to be better for all of the people out there. Yeah, I'm definitely Bucky, right? My skin tone would say that I'm Bucky. I will say, though, my journey is Bucky. You know, I came in here. I came hot. I was the winter soldier. I had no emotions.

I was just firing from the hip. Everybody hated me. I'm like, get him off. Shortly after that, I went to therapy. Everybody was like, oh, man, we're learning,

we're learning who this kid is. I was scratching off names in my book. And now I'm no longer the Winter Soldier. I'm the beige wolf. And I will be here every week. Beage Wolf, that's who you are. By the way,

that's what you're doing. You were coming out and you were just killing everything. Killing everybody. Everybody's, hey, boom. Hey, I like this.

Boom, boom, boom. You're killing everybody. But now you're the beige wolf. Get you a metal arm. Coke baby Chuck is now beige wolf. And I think, I want to thank all the listeners, you know,

because, like, they stuck with us, they rode with us. You know what I'm saying? They were here from the beginning. And even if you yelled at us a little bit, they were, and everybody was saying, you guys are called the Midnight Boys. Josh should come out earlier. I'm like, give Steve some credit. Give our producers some credit for all the work he does, all right?

Yeah, we're out here. We're the Midnight Boys. I don't care what you guys say. I got an outro for you, Van. Can I give you my outro? But wait, we have to do some business real quick. Business before the outro. Just like, got to let me.

people know. There's more Ring ofverse content coming this Sunday. Me and Shay Charano are going to do Mortal Kombat. You got Mallory's Deep Dive on Tuesday with a very, very special guest. Follow us at Ringerverse, IG, and Twitter. Follow and share the show, Charles. Give me the outro. Villains stop the plotting and the evil ploys. We came to save the day. It's the Midnight boys. We out. I don't want the Tyler Perry

version of Captain America on the big screen. We got out of the way. If they let Tyler Perry come back in and direct, that would be so crazy. No, that would be, bra. I'm fucking with that.

Let Tyler Perry direct Captain America and a Winter Soldier. It's so funny because, like, Sam is going to be like, before we move on with this mission, we need some end.

from a family member of mine who knows about everything that's going on on the streets. And then they pop up and it's Madea. And Medea is, and the wise old Madea. You want, you went Champaign Poppy as a super soldier? You want Medea in the gap in American movies. What we need is a Medea MCU crossover. Because Medea got a gun. Medea got a gun.

I'm telling you, you want to get the community out there. there to support this black Captain America. Give me D on board.