The Ringer-Verse - ‘The Fantastic Four: First Steps’ Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

The Boys are back to give you all of their thoughts on one of the most highly anticipated films of the year: ‘The Fantastic Four: First Steps.’ They talk about the newest portrayal of the beloved Fantastic Four characters, give you a bit of comic book context, and dive into questions they had after seeing the film. (0:00) Intro (11:27) Spoilers ahead (13:45) Instant reactions to ‘The Fantastic Four: First Steps’ (48:00) Jomi the Explainer Corner (58:05) The villains (1:13:08) Questions about the movie (1:27:02) Doctor Doom and the post-credits (1:35:55) Box office (1:41:11) Midnight Meter (1:43:00) Inaugural movie rankings for the MCU (1:47:30) 'Superman' vs. 'Fantastic Four' (1:49:39) Outro (1:51:27) Post-credits Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris and Jade Whaley Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You've got questions. He's got answers. Old man Van. He of the receding resurgent, hairline, Coke, baby, Chuck, the 24-carried closing. Together we are known as, I thought midnight boys. Okay, before we get into the podcast, I have to say something. I can't use monoxidil. What's the deal?

What's the deal? So monoxidil. So monoxidil. I had fun. That's all that matters. All right, all right, Jerry. So monoxidil is something that you put the little drops in your hair regrosses the hair. Right.

Oh. So the hair is growing so good that the people from the hair transplant players were like, look, what you should do now, the hair line is back and things are growing in really well is you should just use the monoxide deal all over your head. Okay. Because when you use the monoxide deal, it's just going to make the hair all over your hair grow crazy and your shit come back crazy, dark. I don't even know if I want to do that. But I was like, all right, maybe I'll think about doing it. Man, I use a monoxidil, and they fuck with me. Oh.

I have monoxidil side effects. What are the side effects? So I have preventricular contractions, PVC's, like little funny heartbeats sometimes. Okay. They're benign, but I have them, right? You know, whatever. And I use a monoxidil, and the monoxidil is like, I guess it opens the blood vessels. Okay.

And so my heart was just going crazy. My heart was just going crazy. It was so funny because I was talking to the doctor. talked to the doctor, I said, so how many people have this side effect with the monocidal? They were like, some people do. But I was like to be, and the doctor was like, to be honest with you, a lot of people still use it even though they have that side effect. They really want that.

Honestly, this brings up a, I was watching the club 520 podcast, and they had a good, they had a good question. As a man, rank, would you rather lose your hair line, your eyebrows, or your beard? Well, I mean, for me, it's easily to beer. Yeah. Really? Beard. I didn't wear a beer for a long time.

No eyebrows, though, is like... In my hottest picture of all time, which I was hated on on this podcast. All-necked. All-neck. All-neck picture. I didn't wear a beer for a long time. I don't need to be... I need my mustache.

You know what I mean? I do need facial hair. I need my facial hair. See, I didn't get this until the pandemic, and I'm never letting it go. I can't really fully grow out of beard, and it feels good. and it feels good because I know that I can't look like that crazy without one. Right. So I can easily sacrifice.

Like y'all's king. Some of you guys are beard fishing out here. Y'all saw that. Y'all saw that picture I put in the in the chat of y'all king. What? Yeah. Oh, Pedro? Pedro without facial, you don't look crazy.

It doesn't look like that. When he was Max Lord and Wonder Woman, it was a different story. Files on social. My phone looks great. Was it Facebook there. Insta, Twitter. Facebook and TikTok, Johnny. Guys, as you're listening

to this, we're in San Diego Comic-Con right now. We're going crazy. Having a great time. Make sure to follow so you don't miss any of the hijinks and shenanigans that we get up to this weekend. It's going to be crazy. And to all the weed women out there, you know, we're going to be at the Crutchgo Party. Say what up to your party.

Why would you do? I'm worried. I'm putting Charles in a street. Why? I'm worried. Listen, he's shoot. No ring on his finger. Cash and Fitzger Dynamite.

You know what I mean? Like, Jesus Christ. Because it's two nights, you know? Yeah. And you R-SVP both nights. We all did. We all did. But I'm concerned about.

There's a lot of functions going on. You know, so I do show my ass at the party sometimes. It's, I have to. Sometimes. I don't need you to, you know, because it's a weeb situation. But I don't know if you being there and showing your ass will be different because you'll be. amongst the people you'll be over weaved you'll be over stimulated you'll be over everything that's like your my people that i mean that's your that's an amusement part for charles that's like your

yeah it's your element man yeah so i want to see how you what are you gonna wear there do what do you wear that do you wear so we're going to the crush crush roll party right yeah what does a we wear to the crunchy roll party do you wear like a demon slayer t-shirt do you you dress up like naruto Like Nauruto? Is that what you say? Is he Dominican? Naruto. Narut.

Is he Jamaican? Yeah, Dominican, Haruto. He was right to me. How do you say? Naruto. What do you? Because I don't have any of that type of gear. Neither do I.

Have you ever seen me come in some animation? I think that you have it, bro. I think you have that stuff. I think you have those things that they put in their hair. It's like, it's like. It's like Spider-Man 3 he go. He got it under the bed. He pulled it out.

Yeah. He's a thing. He looked at it. Batman looking at the cow. No, I'm doing it to tell me McGuire all black dance and a week party. Yeah. Man,

it's like the little, you know. So I was, so do you dress regular to the curse real? Yes. I don't have anime shit in my closet, bro. I got one Dragon Ball Z shirt. He's going to pull up in this car. It's going to be a huge anime rap.

You know what? You know what? If you don't do it, then I'ma do it. Your, I'm going crazy. weed for the party. You wear the cat ears and shit. Cat ears is a backpack.

If I find you some gear to put on for the Crunch Roll party, will you wear it? I will wear it? I will wear this gear for the Crunchy Roll party. Actually, you know what? Some good social content. Maybe if we can talk Arjuna into pay for it, if y'all guys find any animation for me to wear at a convention for you? I'll wear it one night.

I'll get you a cloud wig. I'll wear it to the party. Let's get him. See, they make him a buster short real quick. This is the type of shit that we should be doing. Yeah. Like, get into it. Oh, my God.

If I'm there, I'm weeping it up because I'm going to be walking around the room trying to see, tell people, I look, straight up, I know you love this shit. I never watch this shit. And I just do it for fun. Like, I have a tack on Titan. I tried to watch it, but it made me have an existential crisis. I couldn't watch it. I don't see how y'all look at this shit. So you see a sexy sailor moon walking by.

you knock on and be like, hmm. I'm going to show her some pictures of the Salem Moon stuff that you know. Where on YouTube? Come on, come on,

go on. Like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every midnight boys and House of Y'R. House of Y'R episode, YouTube.com

backslash at Ringerverse. And also on Spotify. Hey, YouTube people, uh, once again, do better. What?

We had a great time with the line. We had a great show. Thank you guys for coming out to the line, by the way. That was awesome. Right. These guys here are always going to be in the bag for you guys. They're always in the bag.

For the people who support us and love us. I am going to continue to let you guys know that we're giving it our all. And all we're asking you guys to do is like and subscribe to the shit. Is this the answer you're going to do at Comic Con when you have a crowd of people at us? Like, like and subscribe the shit. They always go play nice. That's what they do. It's fine.

I'm telling you straight up. And this is in love. Right. This is with love. Like and subscribe to shit if you want more of it. Right? Like and subscribe it. God damn it.

All right. Programming reminders. We're at Comic Con right now. This weekend, well, that's interesting. We just talked about it like it was in the future. Yeah. We're at Comic Con right now. This weekend, you can expect to see our panel at Comic Con.

Oh, my lordy daddy. Are you guys excited? I am. Oh, 100%. Arjuna keeps hitting me up going, what do you want the panel to be? What do you want the panel to be? Arjuna is stressing out over the panel.

Arjuna's been on edge lately. I mean, it's a lot going on. It's a big time. He's been walking around on eggshells. He's been freaking out. He's frazzled. Arjuna, relax. You know what we do with the midnight boys?

We swag our way through a panel. We could get up there with nothing to talk about. I would rather not. And just swag all ways. Shelds to the panel. What are up, guys? A panel. We prepared nothing.

Hey, Bonds. Let's go. Vance does crowd work for hours. Like, what do you? Could easily do it. Like, what are you guys going to talk about? We're going to talk about how you guys could be better fans. Be better.

Be better. Be better fans, the panel. And later, both the House of R and the Midnight Boys will be giving you their recaps and reports. From San Diego. We also got the meet and greet that night. So we got the panel. Yeah. And we got the meet and greet.

Right. And so you guys are going to get all of the Midnight Boys House of our Ring Reverse content that you... For every Blue Lagoon, you buy Jomey. That's not. Yes. We will tell you the deep shadow protocol of his birth. Yes, it's true. One deep shadow protocol per drink.

Let me tell you got something right now. You guys cannot get Jomey drunk. He can get drunk. He's impervious. He's the winter soldier. But Jomey is a legend already to me. You guys can't do it. I dare

Yep The Midnight riders The snow bunnies I dare you guys Can't get Jomi drunk Y'all can't get my The only thing is I gotta be able to give them some water

And every once in a while Give them a slider or something If Jomey has one glass of water And one slider Every 30 minutes y'all can't get him drunk He's easy I haven't seen anything like you You can't get Jomey drunk

So we'll see Come out Where's the place at It's called Whiskey Wiskey Girl. Whiskey girls. Dames and games.

Like, David Busters for women? Whiskey girl. You never heard of Dames and Games? I've never heard of Dames and Games. Okay. Sounds like a great place. Whiskey girl Thursday night. Get Jomey drunk if you dare.

Today's show we're going to give me your instant reaction to the highly anticipated fantasy four. First step. I looked up Dames and Games. I shouldn't have done that. I should have done that. All right. Spoilers for the festival. Fantastic 4, the MCU, everything leading up to this movie, all things involving Space God children, everything happening right now, Steve.

We're getting ready to talk about Fantastic 4. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. So we get our reactions, we have to put you in the know. The only person who can do that is Chuck Wagon. And the only way to do that is the trademark. Midnight Manifference. All right, this is your Midnight Manifest,

for the First Steps, directed by Matt Shackman, screenplay by Josh Friedman, Eric Pearson, Jeff Kaplan, Ian Springer, Ian Springer, and Springer, and Cat Wood, starring Pedro, Vanessa Kirby, Ebben Moss-Backarat, and Joseph Quinn. We begin on Earth 828. The Fantastic Four have been operating as the world's

protectors for four years, so reveals to read that the couple were finally able to get pregnant after being unable to conceive for a long minute. Unfortunately, this good news is ruined by the arrival of Shalabal, aka the Herald of Galactus, aka the sober surfer. She informs the Earth that their days are numbered thanks to the imminent arrival of Galactus, a cosmic entity that eats planets. The Fantastic Four travel offworld to confront Galactus but realize two things.

The villain's godlike powers make him not impossible to stop, and the only way they can save the planet is by sacrificing their unborn son, Franklin, to the entity. Why you ask? Because Franklin in this universe and the comics is a reality. warping all-powerful super being. A month later, the Fantastic Four and the newly born Franklin returned to Earth. The public quickly turned on the fore after Reed reveals they refused to sacrifice Franklin.

After Sue gives an impassioned speech, the world bands together. Reed devises a plan to transport the Earth away from Galactus but is thwarted by the Silver Surfer. So in a last dish effort to save the Earth, Sue sacrifices herself and pushes Galactus into the teleporter, which costs her life. But our reality warper Franklin revives his mother from death and the Fantastic Four ride off into the sunset as one happy family. That is until Dr. Doom shows up in the Stinger.

That has been your Midnight Manifest for our Fantastic Four First Steps. Back to you, Van. Okay. The movie is out. There was so much anticipation. When I sat down to watch the film, I was almost nervous. The first thing that stuck out to me was the tone of the movie, the visual tone. Charles, had you ever seen a Marvel movie?

a movie that looked like this before? No. I, like, yes, in some ways, I do think obviously because Matt Shackman directed this, who also worked very heavily on Wanda Vision, I think it was already something that the Marvel machine had started

toiling with in terms of just like making an entire TV series or movie around the aesthetic, but even within that aesthetic when we're talking about the cinematography and the color grading and everything, this was, I think when people say was this serious,

it is a very like, not gray movie, but it is a very like, they want us to know that this is important. Does that make sense? It does. Look, the Fantastic Four, I think the difference between them and other Marvel properties that have really exploded in the last three, four decades, The Fantastic Four are very foundational to Marvel, but they've been difficult to make contemporary

because they're kind of zany. They're zanier than some of the other Marvel characters that have exploded in popular culture. They're a little zanier, right? Iron Man is an arms manufacturer who becomes a hero. Wow. Captain America is a soldier with all, this wartime ethic, right?

The X-Men are these societal outcasts that become, you know, examples of family, but also angst in terms of you get your powers when you're an adolescent. Like, you grow up with the X-Men really, really identifying with them as people, even more so than heroes.

And when you look at Spider-Man, once again, it's kind of the same thing. A teenager with all of these powers, all of this responsibility, all of this stuff. The Fantastic Four, it's a little different. It is a family, but you have one guy that lights himself on fire, another guy that's rock all the time, and then you have a reed who is an Uber nerd.

And with the stretchy powers and the Invisible Girl and all of this stuff, it does seem like a relics of a hero's era gone by. So they've never really quite been able to make them contemporary, and this movie kind of did. Wait, can I, but before we get off this point, because I was thinking about this morning, to me, the fantastic for, like, the Rakim of superheroes,

where it's like, if you show a kid in 2025, like Rakim rap, you'd be like, what the fuck is this? It sounds old. Why is like my older uncles or my, like, grandparents, or whatever, what was it about this? And you don't realize until you listen to someone like, Nas, you're like, no, no one was rapping like this, this intricately putting words together like this.

And I think when you think of the Fantastic Four, what makes them so hard to adapt is that, no, this is the source for everything. When people think, oh, they're Marvel's first family, they think that that just means, oh, because they're an actual family. And no, if you go back and you read the history of these comics, Marvel at that time, their pitch with the Fantastic Four is that this is the world outside of your door. This is not DC.

And the thing that makes them hard to adapt is everything that came after that, X-Men, you know, the Claremont run, all of these Spider-Men, all this stuff, is taking a lot from the Fantastic Four, which is these are supposed to be realistic humans. You know, if you're thinking about the 1960s in the Human Torch,

in the 1960s, what we deem a teenager was still a new concept. It was like, you were either a baby or you were an adult. So to see Johnny Storm as this, like, teen heartthrob was something new and radical. Seeing someone like the thing, like we take it for granted where we're just like, oh, we know what the thing is. I'm like, no, back then, he was this character with so much pathos and so much pain and anger. And I think what's always been difficult in what this movie does so beautifully is it really is showing us like, no, this is why you guys love. of the Avengers and the X-Men and Spidey,

because this was the first family who demonstrated that superheroes could be human and relatable. And you could be like, I see my dad and my mom and my brothers and my sisters in these. And the movie leans so heavily on the family aspect. It's like the concrete that makes the movie go. It's the foundation that the movie lies itself on. You spend so much time with Johnny, Reed, Sue, and Ben,

and their machinations. Like, there's the scene, like, in the middle after they come back from space and Reed and Sue fight. And it's kind of a real fight. And they're like, you got to go sacrifice this baby. I know you. I've spent so much time with you.

I know this is you want to do. I'm not going to let you do it. And it's kind of, you're kind of watching Mom and Dad fight. And you're like, oh, this is uncomfortable. I don't like this, but it's real. And the movie does a really, really good job of making you believe that, oh, these characters, they know it turns out. They love each other.

They fought battles together. They've been in wars together. This is a real family. When they say, we're having a baby and Johnny and Ben, like, rib each other a little bit. That's just like what uncles do, you know? I thought that them building that, making that the rock that the movie's built upon, was just a great stroke of genius. They also didn't dive into all the traditional tropes about the characters. Yeah.

Rie was a nerd, but he wasn't. he was almost a tragic nerd. Johnny was a ladies man, but he wasn't girl crazy. Like, the thing was sad about his condition and concerned with it, right? But he was also a person that experienced joy and was there for his family.

And Sue was the serious one, but also played it with a light touch. So they kind of took those characters out of some of the handcuffs, the comic book handcuffs that they've already... The cliche, the super-hitched-up cliches that they've always had on them. In a way, this movie's restraint is its greatest strength because there's a lot of story that goes with all of these characters and a lot of arcs that you could lean into that are either considered too serious, too dark, too depressing, or too. heavy for a lot of these characters to give you in the first movie that they're actually in.

And they give us a very simple, albeit sometimes like, incredibly elegant story about this family coming in and facing a bigger problem than they've ever actually needed to face.

I think that that's probably the thing that I've loved the most about this movie, and I have my own sort of like stumbles in between it. But ultimately, I think that the biggest thing that this movie can do is sell us on the family and sell us on the best type of, it's both a pallet cleanser and a table setter for what Marvel wants to do in the next four projects. I'm going to ask you guys to do something real quick.

Yeah. We're going to talk about the family now. We're going to talk about the portrayals. Everybody rank really quickly the Fantastic Four from four to one based on the portrayals of the characters themselves. From who nailed it, all the way down to who nailed it, the least. Who had it?

I know where you're going with this. I know where you're going with this. So go. We already know where you at. I'll start it. Okay. Number one, most faithful, the portrayal that I liked the most was Thing.

Really enjoyed it. Thing is my number one as well. Thought it was perfect. two was tough, but I got to go with Johnny. Yeah. Really? I got to go with Johnny. Vanessa Kirby is my number two.

She, Vanessa Kirby was fantastic as soon, but Johnny was slightly better. So Vanessa Kirby is three. And then four was Pedro Pascal. You were coming down minus two already. You know what I'm saying? He had a handicap. Are we doing the Pedro talk? Because I actually think what Pedro is doing because he's over-exposed people.

aren't going to give him credit for it. Go for it. So this might get a little heady. The thing that I think makes Mr. Fantastic hard to do as a character is that essentially in modern times to keep Mr. Fantastic interesting, what have they had to do in the comics? They basically had to transform him into not only an asshole, but Dr. Doom. Like what's one of the most famous recent, you know, read, um, characters. Is Jonathan Hickman turning him into the maker or the Council of Reeds? And I think

part of that is because when you have this first family who's been around for decades, you have to keep pushing the most interesting parts of these characters and the most interesting part about Reed is the fact that he's a family man. He loves his wife. He loves his kids. He loves Johnny and the thing. But he is cursed by his intelligence. You know, what's the one thing that makes him different than Doctor Doom. It's his heart. For this movie, what I realized

that Pedro Pascal was doing is I'm like, oh, you're playing Reed closer to like how Killian Murphy played Oppenheimer, which is just like,

this is a guy who's like one day from like destroying the world or knowing what will destroy the world. But when they get, when they land back on the planet, he's so bad in front of the press conference. He's like he's so,

like when he's talking. talking to the kids. The kids, he's like all in his mind and he's just like, you want to see an explosion? Everybody's like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, the interesting thing about this is that I'm like, that's to me a better way to play this character because the easy thing to do is for Pedro to suck up all the oxygen away from everyone, away from Vanessa Kirby,

away from Joseph Quinn, away from the thing. I'm like, you actually, with how overexposed he is, you actually need to make him, you have to take away a little bit. Take a step back. That's an interesting observation. So the way I look at Reed Richards as a character, the reason why I think that he's become one of the most fascinating comic book characters that is out there is because once you get into what it would be like to be not the smartest man in the world, but the smartest

man in the universe, you'd have to confront some darkness. Yeah. Because when you... What stops Reed Richards for... from looking at everything and everyone as numbers and figures. Like what stops him from looking at everything as probability, as causality, all of that. And it is his family. I've told you guys this before and I'll say it.

I'm not going to mention names, but I've worked for two different guys with, I work four. I worked with two different guys that are considered mogul types. Yeah. one guy was as shrewd as any person I've ever known just like it's ethical but an absolute

killer just didn't have it in his makeup to at all be considered about what the ramifications of what he would put out there are it's not part of it you just look at it you analyze it you see a mark you take it down all right the other gentleman

is as ambitious and as shrewd and competitive as but he has a family and his family keeps him from developing all the scars and calluses that the other guy has and Ree Richards is that second guy

um Reed Richards is someone that like every time he, he thinks about doing something that is just an equation, he gets pulled back. Somebody pulls him back. And the tension that happens or is happening in the comic book right now, the comic books for the last 15 years, is that he's starting to listen to those people a little bit less

because those problems are so big. And it's starting to put some distance between him and his family. In this movie, I did see that. I saw that Reed was struggling being a guy. who had to figure everything out and also be the guy who had to translate that to the people who he loved the most.

However, I just kind of never got the sense in this movie that Reed Richards was the smartest man on earth. And that's a stupid criticism, but I don't know how you do that.

But I never got the sense in this movie that, it's almost I feel silly because it's the criticism that people have of Superman

is not fucking fucking strong and all that stuff that Superman's getting his ass kick I get it but in this

in this film I was kind of not quite there it I don't know what I'm trying to say

but it's all right I think to answer your first question about who I would rank like

one through four through the betrayals I think I would go with Vanessa to Kirby first because in the lead up to the movie, her and Matt Shackman and Pedro, everybody was talking about how she's the emotional linchpin, right? Like, she brings everybody together.

She ties everyone together. And I wanted to see how that would work in the movie, right? And we hadn't really seen that in the Fantastic Forbiter, at least on the movie screen before. And I thought that she did an incredible job bringing those emotions, like raining everybody in when it came to, when it came time. that like the speech, you know, with Franklin, it's kind of like Superman's speech a little like on the nose about what

they're trying to tell us. That's the worst part of the movie. It's by far the worst part of the movie. It's very, it's very, very, very much like we are audience. The Superman and Fantastic Four almost have a very similar problem. Yeah. It's very interesting. Yeah. And we'll talk about it. But I thought like

this, like, again, the argument with her and Reed when they're debating about like, you know, we got to, when she is like, Reed's right, we have to this for the baby when she's giving up herself like she dies to save franklin i'm sitting there and i'm like she's killing it she's doing an incredible job as sue it's i thought it i thought it was great uh i think i'd probably go i mean johnny's my guy i gotta go too i thought it was it was muted but i thought like again in a more contemporary way he was incredible as johnny he was

smart yet still like witty and like giving read like all the the nonsense usually does uh evan mott Spock Rat was great-ass thing. I thought that was perfect. And yeah, Reed is very much like in the background, but I think that's for, there's reason for it.

I think we would have hated this a lot more if this was the Pedro Pascal movie. Yeah, no, you know, I didn't hate it at all. Yeah. No, I hated at all,

but you know what I mean? We're all like, damn, is this just the Pedro show? I'm sure. And he's a, he's a galaxy right now that could suck up all of the oxygen

in a movie like this because he's the biggest guy around right now. Right. I kind of agree with you, van with the portrayal of Reed. And I don't know if I, I can't really rest that on Pedro's shoulders rather than how the movie wants to portray him

because I don't really feel like he is the smartest man in the world. I think that he is burdened by his intelligence and like seeing the equations of all of the world's problems. But it, he seems like it's just more self-serious and burdensome to not let anybody into that calculus rather than, accept his family and like kind of let himself step back into the fold of a more open-hearted person. Because me at my most cynical about this movie is like, man, Regis did a lot of math to think about swapping a baby. And that's really it.

It was his son. Yeah, I get it. But he was standing at that whiteboard just doing that one thing. I get the fact that he's having to wrestle with a lot. And I think that the way that Pedro plays it is, What? They fucking hated that take. I was waiting for somebody to jump in, but they were, I'm gonna get out of it.

All I was gonna say is like, motherfuckers can't be all one-A, one-eight, one-eight. This is the best shit ever. Be like, Reed was doing math on a, I was like, I. Steve, but it's all about the execution. That's all it is. And what I'm gonna say about, if I'm gonna be real. Steve, don't back down. I'm not backing down.

If I'm not real, though, it's like how many more times, especially in this superhero generation, why I feel like, hey, yo, Pedro actually did a really good job, is I'm like, this is set in the 60s. What in the modern times that not only superhero movies, but in all of these movies we understand is smart or what they are playing against is like, who is Iron Man Model Dactor and Elon Musk type, you know, who is Lex Luther fucking Model Dactor, the fucking Mark Zuckerbergs and the Jeff Bezos and the

must of the world? And I'm like, because that's what we understand of like, I'm not saying that those guys are smarter intelligent, but there's a certain way in the 21st century that these men have taught, well, if you want to be the smartest man in the world, this is how you have to play. And I don't want that read.

Like, I don't want that version of it. And that's not what I was even, like, hoping for. It's more of the fact that the fact that this read is so dower and so, like, against what the calculus of the world is kind of yelling at him to do. and he's just like, he's seeing that answer that the world's yelling at him, I get that he shouldn't be a charismatic Tony Stark type.

He shouldn't be that. And he shouldn't have the type of like social acumen that thinks that sacrificing a child, let alone his own, is acceptable. But he's fighting that every time. And I only see that in his face. And there isn't a moment unless there's a couple of, like, sparks of it in this movie

where that pressure release valve comes out and the movie kind of shifts into something that I think either in the edit or in the script, there's something a bit more vibrant and energetic happening. And I can talk about the things that happened on the exterior that makes me see that. I'm confused because because the like Galactus shows up, Galactus, we'll talk about him later. I thought it was incredible.

Cool. He's like, yo, I need a baby or the earth. You got to pick one. And he comes down and he starts doing the math and he kind of figures out, I don't have any other option. I have the one thing. have to do is sacrifice my baby. I am killing myself trying to figure out another option and there is not one.

Well, no. The first option was to teleport the earth away from Galactus. So he did figure out another option. Later, right? After a minute. But I'm talking about like in that like sec before he figures it out, obviously he's not going to be quipping. Obviously he's going to be the muted guy who's like, dog, I, I'm the smartest guy on the

world and I only see the one option I can't do it. How am I, like, if I can't do it, like, what is there? What else do I have? Well, the decision to make Franklin, and as we talk about it, I'm coming into it a little bit more, the decision to make Franklin, the centerpiece of the action here, actually makes Reed dumber. Probably. Because the smart thing to do is give the baby to the space god.

That's the smart thing to do. Yeah. And he would have actually had the courage to just say it. And I hate to say this, but the smart thing to do was to give vision to fucking destroy vision. And let me say it wasn't the smart thing to do. Put an empty cradle. To destroy vision. That was the smart thing to do. The smart thing to do. But when you put a guy like Reed who's math in a situation and the answer is right in front of him. And he has to create another answer. that's when you get the tension within the character. I guess it, he played read in a different way,

maybe in a more contemporary way. It's interesting about what you said earlier, or what we were talking about earlier, with the so-called smart guys. We actually live in a society now where I don't think we really know who the smart guys are. Yeah. Like, we get told who the smart guys are.

Like, we get told who the geniuses are. But the actual smart guys, like, we never really hear from them. Like, even with Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs had an incredible imagination. But the guy who actually built the computer is more interesting than Steve Jobs. Like, how he just looks at the world and some decisions that he made. Right. He was kind of a pragmatist and a humanist and a little. He's actually more interested than the ultra-true.

killer businessman who had this amazing vision but would kill anybody to get there. The way hyper-intelligent people view the world is actually more, it's more interesting than how hyper-famous captains of industry view it. But those are the guys that we are told are the geniuses. And so kind of looking at read a little bit, I think what I was taken aback by, is that he didn't seem to have very much confidence. And that's what I loved about it. But that's the thing that we're,

but we live in this, this world where we take the Fantastic Force Word is gospel. If Reed Richards gets on television and it's like, hey, everybody turned off your power at 7 p.m. Because we need to conserve power to set this teleporter off for the rest of the world, they're going to believe him. And it's not going to be questioned at all.

where as I'm like, okay, so we're in this utopia where apparently all of the world now cooperates and doesn't want to at all make this calculus to not sacrifice this baby because Sue Storing gave a terrible speech in front of the, in front of the Reed Richards Tower. And I'm supposed to be like, okay, well, if this is going to be the thing that carries that decision,

we need to know why Reed Richards is so valuable to this world. And I never really felt, that. Well, but here's a thing, and this is why I think it's a subtle, it's a subtle choice. And I think a lot of people actually are going to be more on your, the both of your side. If we're talking about the, like, the geniuses that I've met, the guys in the lab that I've met, it's always so funny where you're just like, oh, yeah, no wonder you're not confident. You can't talk to people. Like, Reed Richards, like, the funny thing about him is I'm just like, his best friend is Ben Grimm, but also his best friend is Herbie because he's just like,

her to go do this. And it's like when he's talking to Johnny, there was this subtle thing where I'm like, wait, why didn't, why didn't Reed? Like every other Reed movie would be like, yeah, he has a spacesuits already done. I'm like, wait, why is he? Why isn't he fixing the spacesuits?

And I'm like, oh, he's embarrassed still. Like, the thing has to be like, don't worry about that. I'm not mad at you. And I'm like, that's what I love about Reed where I'm just like, oh, it makes sense that Sue Storm is the leader, that she's in front of the U.S., that she's leading the future foundation. Because what she knows about her husband

and what her husband knows about himself is I'm not a leader. I was a scientist before this. And that's a thing where I'm like, it's not the popular choice to make for the character, but what I actually think will, what we're going to come to love about is I'm like, oh, I would have hated this.

If the first time we see Robert Downey Jr. as Dr. Doom, Pedro Pascal and Robert Downey Jr. are basically kind of doing the same thing. Right. I'm now really interested. I'm like, oh, you kind of have this like cuckish. Jesus, super-huh. I mean, is Rick Richards in the comic?

Not the ultimate. No, no, he kind of is. Against like Robert Downey, June. That's exciting. But this is my deal. This is kind of why I don't consider the comic book version of Reed a cuck. It's because she always comes back to him. Not even that.

Yeah. I mean, she's on the name of my name. got better things to do. No, no. I'm going to. Wait, wait, wait, wait, no. We got a way of this play. Let's be fair to Invisible

woman, okay? They'd be punting on her, but she always know where home is. I'm talking about, like, she, he, he's got better things to do. Like, she is, she is off, ban her eyes at Neymour.

Whoa, no, no, no, no. She's not badging his eyes at her. Naimor is nasty. Like whatever. There's stuff that happens, right? She's off doing all of this stuff. Black Panther. Has Nemo ever clapped the cheats?

I don't think he has. God hell, no. But there's Sue all, Sue doesn't, Sue has things. She's, she's not not cheating. What? Sue is, even her and Doom, there's a little thing. There's something there. There's something there between Sue and some of these other people.

This is so saji-s-sodgy-s-sodgy. This is insane, sad. It's not just read the comics. And there's a lot. But there's no, there's no defense, but I'm saying this. The thing about Reed is that he's aloof. Yeah. He's kind of, you can only be a cuck if you care.

Like, it's like. That's true. You can, he's he's aloof. He's like, he's. She's over there, he's looking. Uh-huh. He's like, oh, that's what? He's, he's not.

He's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's. has to figure out the problem of everything. He's trying to fix the universe. If I'm figuring out time travel, what is the matter of my wife? If she has a coffee with somebody else, he's like, I got to put that into that. But here's my thing.

They've only been the Fantastic for four years. If I'm like Kevin Feigy and I'm the writers, I'm like, oh, we need to start read out a place where it's like the Breaking Bad thing. If Walt starts out as the fucking, drug kingpin, you don't have a fucking show. You need to show how... You have a different show.

Yeah, you need to show how the fucking nerd becomes the maker. And I'm not saying that that's where they're going, but I'm just like, oh, I think it was a genius choice to be like, oh, we need to start Reed in a place where he's not that aloof, he still has his humanity.

Because everything that we know about Reed is coming from just almost 100 fucking years of knowing this character and the growth. And I'm like, oh, I think it's going to be more interesting if like, oh, in the first movie. To give him an arc. To give him the arc of, oh, you have to stop someone who's just going to destroy one planet. Now you have to stop someone who's going to destroy a whole multiverse.

Oh, now Doom is potentially married to Sue. He has your kids now. What does that do to him? I want to see the aloof breed after he, in his mind is like, I saw the whole universe. And you got to respect Reed. There's a comic run where. of future Namor and the future Black Panther come and say, hey, man, we come from a world where you went,

you kind of went crazy. And we got to stop it. And while you went crazy, Namo was like, yeah, I kind of got with Sue. It's the whole thing, but like, chill, you know what I'm saying? You went crazy. And the first thing that Reid did when he heard that was say, bet he pulled out the blicky and shot him in the head.

Respect my guy. Yeah. Yeah, he. Respect my guy. Crash out, he crashes out. he's by far to me the most interesting character in the Fantastic Four. The only thing that I was say when I was watching the movie is I was waiting to see a definitive portrayal of Reed Richards.

And I think Charles's point is well taken. I think it was more a portrayal of him that you put the character in a really fraught, dramatic scenario, and you're watching, the making of the character rather than watching the character fully formed. Can I also say there were elements and it's so like they go by

but I'm like, oh, Rita's getting his little fascist shit on where it's like they walk out of the Baxter building and you see all of the flying cop cars and he's just like, oh yeah, he wants to protect his son so much. He's just like, yep, I got them and I got them villains and I got all of them.

And I'm like, there were those subtle moments and they weren't pitched up. And maybe I think his character would have worked a little bit better if they were pitched up more, but I was like, oh, not only is Reed thinking about sacrificing his child, he's just like, if I really, really wanted to, I could get rid of every single

fucking villain in this city tomorrow. Because I made the nice looking police state. Yes, that is New York. That was the thing why I was like, oh. Can I ask a question that's, is this movie ultimately more interesting because

the old Fantastic Four movies were so oriented around the push-pool between Doom and Reed. This one is not. It's not really a Reed

centric movie at all. Did that make it a better movie? I do. I think so. Again, there's so many different directions that this movie could have gone and to make it this is very interesting to know that, like, Reed is kind, not on the

back burner, but he's certainly not center stage. and to see all of these other characters like the thing, which I think I would put at number one for that portrayal and then Johnny second, to get a lot of screen time and have a lot of fun with, I think that that's the movie knowing its strength, but I still think that there's like a smaller bit of untapped potential that comes with the middling of those stakes

because those stakes get very high, very quickly, because we have a lot of montages, We have a lot of things that, like, set stakes and, like, push them forward very quickly in order for us to get to really thrilling things that I loved genuinely about this movie. And it feels a little asynchronous. So do you—well, the reason why I probably like this movie was because of the restraint of—I think we talked about this for Superman. Van, you were just like, yo, James Gunn didn't trust the audience. And you weren't being—obstively, you love the movie, but it's like, Superman's not enough.

Superman needs to have Mr. Terrific, Hawk girl, Guy Gardner, he was trying to prove that he could create a universe. And the thing that I was worried about so much in this movie is that because they finally have these characters, they were going to speed run through this shit. They're like, yo, we want the thing versus the fucking Hulk. We want Namor up in this bitch. We want to do everything possible because we have these characters.

And I think what Kevin Feigy might be telling us about the future of the MCU, maybe even like the X-Men is like, hey, yo, like, let's slow down. Just because I think that they did that with Spider-Man No Way Home. They put Franklin Richards in the movie, so they're not slowing down that much. Right. But here's the thing. They put Franklin Richards

in the movie, but it wasn't. Which isn't an insanely ambitious thing to do in a film, the first film. The audience has no idea what type of character exists in the MCU now. There's so many of the thing.

I loved about it is even though, yes, we know, and after this, like, let's go to Jomey and explain her to kind of explain Franklin's importance. But what I loved is they still kept his introduction rooted in character, rooted in story, which this is a story of, he's just a baby. He's just a baby, and this is about, it's a very subtle thing where it's like, this is about what happens when a mom has a child. And because the child was literally in her stomach, She has an emotional connection. And what happens with the smartest man in the world who is so bad with his emotions has to develop that on the fly? And the whole, the genius of that being, all right, you're the smartest man in the world.

God says you need to sacrifice your son to save the world. I'm like, oh, I can get behind that. And we will get to the Franklin bullshit later. But Jomi Explaner, let's clear out. Can you briefly explain? This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business, Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV,

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Watch only on Prime. the writers in the mob. I mean, the simplest thing is that he is, not even arguably, probably the most powerful mutants in the Marvel universe, probably the most powerful person in the Marvel universe. Reality warping, molecular manipulation,

teleethy, telekinesis, energy blasts, like the whole thing, basically on the same level as Celestials, like Galactus, like Erisham that we saw in the Eternals. Legitimately, like, from Marvel.com, Franklin Rich is a powerful mutant and Chalves the Multiverse

with Earth's first family of superheroes the Fantastic Four. Legitimately terrifying how scary he is. Whatever you can see, he can do. He can create pocket universes on a whim, just decide to make a replica. He did in the comics. He made a replica of Earth's 616, just for fun.

Just for the love of the game. You know what I mean? And that's the reason Galactus wants him, because her, him, Galactus and Shelobow who play civil surfer are all connected by the power cosmic right galactus needs to eat in order to survive he doesn't want to do that he's like i'm i'm good actually i would like to you know not have to do this that baby is my ticket out that baby is my ticket out he's the power cosmic incarnate yeah like

just a natural vessel of that power that can release galactus from whatever uh whatever prison he's in he needs that in order to let go, to be gone. And so it's like these two, like, legitimate gods at odds with one another. It's insane. We literally, bringing Sue back to life is light work. That was the one part of the deal. He did it when he was a baby. When Sue was dying, I'm just like, Frank, bring her back.

I'm like, yeah, that's CGI baby is going to bring her back. The CGI baby is tough. But, no, it's, yeah, when she's like dead. dead because when she falls back i was like man she got major cTE that's grim here hit the pavement crazy but like he's doing the compressions and ben's like she's gone i was like oh no well forgot my bad by the way the thing about franklin when i watched that scene i also thought about how dangerous franklin richards is how so um well obviously you know there were things that they had to do to him that richards had to do to him as a kid to keep his powers in check right this is a big part of his

his childhood. Franklin Richards doesn't know that he did that. Yeah. He doesn't know. He's not, for as powerful as he is, I mean, he didn't come out to womb talking, right? So he doesn't, there are human developmental restraints still on the baby.

He did that with his emotions. It's kind of like Jack Jack. Yeah. The first, the first. He is Jack. Jack is him. Jack is him. It's kind of like Jack Jack from the Incredibles when Jack Jack is, you know, chasing after the raccoon and all of his powers are manifesting themselves.

Jack Jack isn't trying to do it. He doesn't have control over it. He just, it's happening because his intuition is presenting a power. Franklin was sad when he saw his mom. There was, there's a connection there. And all of a sudden, his powers activated themselves and did what they were supposed to. supposed to do. That's incredibly dangerous. It's dangerous

to have someone who is not emotionally in control be able to affect things. What if he gets mad over ice cream? Right. And he turns the entire Baxter building into ice cream. The Baxter building, brother. He can turn the universe. So

like even that, it presents the character is and they've always, a lot of these feats that he's done, he did him as a kid. Yeah. Like the whole thing, Franklin was still in elementary school. Yeah.

You know, when he gets older, him and Galactus actually have a great relationship. But, like, it's just, it's so awesome to see that power right there and to see it on screen. And also to know that there's actually really no way to control it other than the fuck with his brain. Is he our new Scarlet Witch in this, in this universe? He's our new Gaia. We got three. We got the big three. Guy is Scarlet Witch?

Franklin. Also, before we go to the, because I think we should go to Villan Corner, but I do want to give a shout out. I thought Eben Moss-Backack does such a fucking good job as the thing. The most faithful portrayal and what I loved about it was they made such a smart choice where his arc in the movie is almost like so small that if, like, with everything going on, you can maybe not be paying attention. I think they cut a lot of it out.

They cut a lot of that out. Because I think that, because I think a lot of the Natasha Leon's stuff, I think she was supposed to be I think she was supposed to be in the movie a lot more I think they kind of love because that romantic arc kind of just went nowhere after he went to Temple. What I will say is

what I loved about his betrayal was like I was like oh usually with the thing they heighten it up where it's like I'm so ugly oh my gosh my life is ruined and with this you almost got the sense where you're like oh even if he was still human

he wouldn't know how to talk to this woman Like everybody in the world, the kids, everybody loves him. And there's still something about him that's like... I got a little like Rocky with Adrian kind of a thing where he's just like, ah, man, I don't really know what to do with this girl, but like, I guess I got to try, like that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's Rocky wasn't like that? I mean, he would like, he's still... We watched that movie.

Rocky's a dumb man. Rocky punny. He's not lost on me. We, y'all got to watch Rocky again. We remember the movie that way. I know why you think that. We remember the movie that way. Me and Chris and Bill did Rocky on the rewatchables.

That date is nuts. Rocky had Adrian in his romantic flytrap from the beginning. Rocky hit, how was that Adrian at the store? Then he goes to get Pauline. Then Rocky and Adrian have a date. They come back to Rocky's apartment. He immediately gets sexy. He's in the tank top.

He's doing this. And actually, after a while, I was starting to look. at it and I'm like, I was the 70s. I'm gonna let Rock do a school because different some of the shit. It's bad. Do you think Rocky was playing a little bit dumber out, Adrian, and try to get the drugs? No, Rocky was dumb.

Rocky unlocked Adrian in that movie. By the end of the movie, there's so much about their relationship in Rocky that people don't remember. By the end of the movie, Adrian trying to climb it all over Rocky where Rocky got to get ready for the Creed fight. I don't feel great about that now that I am remembering.

You know what I'm saying? I don't feel great about that. That was only, Rocky had designs on Adrian from the beginning. Okay. In the beginning. So bad examples for that. But no, it's just like he's just a shy dude that didn't really know how to handle a girl that he liked. And that's, I think, was very, very touching. I think Emmemann's backerack played that wonderfully.

I thought Joseph Quinn, I thought it was such a great choice where I'm like, oh, what he wants more than anything, more than any of the women, more than Silver Surfer, he wants to be useful to this family. He wants to be smart. He wants them to take him seriously. So I thought him being like, I got this and him kind of like pitching his sister. Like, no, I figured out the language, whatever.

I was like, that's way more interesting than Playboy Human Torch. That, it was amazing. Right there was the most ambitious and effective choice in the movie. Yes. Yep. To give Johnny some utility where he is using his brain because, you know, Johnny's storm has never really been portrayed as. dense, but they dialed it back.

He's a fucking astronaut. He's an accomplished guy. To have Johnny actually do something that only he could do, partly because she's a hot space chick. Yeah. But also because he puts the energy and the time into it

to unlock this big piece of the puzzle. It was fantastic. I thought the subversion of his character... Really worked. Really worked. It was so much more, even a little bit more than the reason. thing, the re-thing made the movie, you've talked me into the read thing, but

the Johnny thing actually grounded the movie and gave it an extra dimension that it wouldn't have otherwise had. This is the human torch that could be friends with Tom Holland Spider-Man, which I loved, which I'm just like, oh, these two would meet and hit it off. I don't think in any other portrayal that

was ever real, because, like, even though Joseph Quinn isn't playing him like a teenager, he still has that, like, that boyish charm of, damn, like, I know I'm always playing around with y'all but i do want reed to respect me i do like i do want my sister to take me fucking seriously even the fact where it's like you could tell he's still the heartthrob but there is something about him where i'm like no women like him not only because he's hard like he's hot but

like he's charming and he like they like paul mccartney and the beetles yeah like that was a great choice when when she says hey my brother's single right yeah he actually goes he actually kind of I was like, oh. And people were worried about that. When we saw it the first time, we were like, is Johnny not going to be for the ladies? Like, what's the point? Because if you look at like Chris Evans as Johnny, he was like. He was just all over.

He was going to be a latexies. I think Chris Evans did a great job. Yeah. It's a different version. But it's just a different version. And they both work for their respective, respective teams. Mantle Wars. The Mantle Wars is coming.

Oh, boy. Mantle Wars? Mantle Wars. What is Mantle Wars? No, no. He's the definitive. It's the definitive. Who is this character for?

they've played multiple characters. Mantle Wars is happening on the Midnight Boys. Mantle Wars is coming. We got, like, who was Spider-Man, who was Superman, who was Batman. Mantle Wars is coming on the Midnight Boys. We're going to do a special Mantle Wars. So if we're talking villains, we've got to talk Galactus and Silver Surfer to an extent. Galactus is just, he's the mastery of the power cosmic, right?

And the physical embodiment of the cosmos, right? You got basically just an entity that has to eat planets to survive. And he is given just a little bit, a little sliver of the power of cosmic, if you will, to Shutabow, who is in the comics, normally the lover of Norn Rad, who's the Silver Surfer that has been in the comics forever. But in this particular comic, Earth X, which is like, I don't read it. It's way too dense. I tried my best last night and I almost died.

Right? I just had to, I had to watch something to get me caught up. It's got a human's in it. It's nuts. But essentially, in that story, she takes on the herald of Galathe,

of, she becomes a herald of Galactus as Silver Surfer instead of Nornrad. And in an interesting twist, Galactus in that storyline is actually Franklin Richards. Oh. So I think that, like,

Earth X played a really big role in making this movie happen. In terms of the Galactus in this movie, it's the best part to the movie by far and when Galactus. Terrified. And the fantastic fourth on screen. When they go into the thing and his eyes pop for the first time, I legitimately was like, my heart like yours went. I was like, oh, oh my gosh. It was amazingly scary.

And I thought that. Going Godzilla through New York is great. Legitimately, the best scenes of the movie are when they are going toe to toe with him. It was awesome. Wait, can I ask this? to your point, Galactus, when he shows up, that was when I was just like,

oh, fuck it, yes, we can still do this. Like, we can still take these kooky characters, put them on screen, and we can make them work. It was an electric moment. Now, if we talk about the third act, that's where I feel like the Galactus stuff did not live up to the first act,

where it's like, they present this guy, and it's just so amazing. You feel like he worked better in space than he did on Earth. Yeah. Where it's like, I like the kaiju of like when he like picks up. That's cool. That shit was cool.

He's like, feel the ground. But the whole invisible woman pushing him shit. That shit was when it was like, I was like, this is, you could see the flop. So it didn't bother me that much. It didn't bother me at all. I thought it was great. But that's always been the fear about around the character. Fear around the character is that, you know, if you're in space and he's sitting there on a throne, it's cool.

But like, when he's got to walk next to buildings, that it just looks a little crazy. I thought that they pulled it off just because Galactus is a very self-serious and relatable villain. Yeah. You like to eat planets? Well, he's not. He's a natural disaster. Yeah. He's a force of nature.

It's not only is Galactus a force of nature in terms of his hunger makes him do what he does. It's also a situation to where Galactus is being used by Celestia. to keep the universe imbalance. And so it's kind of a weird thing to hate him. He has to be stopped, but has to be stopped like...

He wishes he could stop himself. Right. Like the actor said that he's more like a hurricane than he is, and that's kind of the way he has to be stopped. I thought, I think the first scene, like from him showing up to them escaping the black hole best scene in the movie, like easily.

I was like, The several surfer surfing on the fucking fire was dope. It was incredible. The visuals, them like figuring out how to escape,

like, all right, time dilation in the black hole, like just incredible. Again, the silver surfer through the lava, coming,

like surfing through the accretion disc on the black hole. You're getting stretched out through the black hole. Come on. Like, spigitification was crazy. That whole bit was awesome. The scene at the end,

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. y'all, y'all mad because why I was invisible woman? That's not actually why I was mad. I just thought it kind of looked for a movie that I thought for most of its run looked really, really good. The third act was when I started being like, when he went like, and you know this, when he went down and touched the grass and like pick it up, I'm like, oh, man, he left

smiles, man. Yeah, he'll do this like. You should have to talk to us. I enjoyed, you know, watching him stomp through New York, the older I get, the more all of that destruction just bothers me and I'm like, God damn, they killed it. Well, they got people into sub-dary really quick.

Mo-Man is a real MVP. Mo-Man is my god. Mo-Man is my guy. Moman's the best. It's always tough for me to watch all those buildings get destroyed because I'm like, man, they got to rebuild that shit. But I didn't mind

the Galactic stuff at the end. I knew that some people would because it's like, oh my God, now this guy is on the earth. But I didn't mind it at all. I thought he was the most effective origin story villain

in the MCU's history. Ooh. Okay. Your first movie. Loki? Better. Better than Loki. Yeah.

The only one that was tough for, the only one that was tough for me was a killmonger. No, Kilmonger is better. I don't know. Kilmonger's better. But I would put Galactuses in my top five. I don't know.

I was talking about. about origin story villains. So you're talking like... So you can't... Thanos doesn't count. Doesn't count. No, no, no. He wasn't the villain

of anyone's origin story. Never was. Oh, that's what you're talking about. No. No, no. Ultron. Like, Ultron was... Ultron could kind of count,

but not really. I'm talking about it's your first movie. Yeah, like Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah, yeah. Origin Story Villal.

You might be right then. Like, like, origin story villain. I mean, obviously he's by far the most famous origin story villain of all of those, right? Because some of these other characters, like Spider-Man didn't go with, what? They won with Green Goblin. Well, now I'm talking to the first Spider-Man. Oh, Vulture. He's, like, he's right there.

I'm always talking about it in the MCU. Okay. Because if you talk about origin story villains, then you're talking about fucking, like, Jack Nicholson and the original Batman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking about in the MCU. But in the original Spider-Man, they didn't go with, they went with Vulture, which was great. Vulture was great. Vulture would be in the top five.

but he really, the movie took off once Galactus gas. Absolutely. So do you feel like Silver Surfer got a little underserved? Where nothing, Shalabal, the character, I loved all of it. There was dope moments, but Silver Surfer just has such an important part. I feel like in culture, comic book lore, and just kind of just the torture of that character. And that was almost the weakest, that was another weak part of the movie where I was like, I just needed more Silver Surfer.

I thought the flashbacks were kind of... We didn't need those. They didn't lay in Silver Surfer as well as I would have liked that too. It wasn't bad, but not great. I thought they did. I mean, I've never been that into the Silver Surfer. Never. Really?

You never played Silver Surfer Requiem? I like the Silver Surfer when the Silver Surfer is used as a sad boy in space. Yeah. Sad boy in space. Sitting on his board. I'm chilling. Look at the character is always so... stunning that when you see the silver surfer on the cover of a comic, you just want to buy it.

Yeah. Right? But I think the Silver Surfer is always, this movie inverted the last fantastic movie, which made the Silver Surfer a big deal and Galactus a small deal. Yeah. This movie kind of made Galactus a bigger deal and the Silver Surfer a little bit of a smaller deal. It's really more equal, but I thought that that worked.

I like the Silver Surfer as being somebody that comes in. and just does really cool shit and has a little bit of a bite of story and it gets out of this. Little just like got to farm some aura real quick. Yeah. It's out of there. Destroy all the teleporters on Earth.

Right. I like that Jennifer, that she still did the Jennifer Garner thing with her mouth. Even through the CGI. Even through the Silver Silver. You know what she does like this? Yeah.

It's a good effect. Like for a CGI character, that's a really good-looking CGI character. Because I always wonder, because, you know, I just have these different. different things that they do. No, Brad Pitt used to always do like this.

Yeah, that he was talking. He would do like that. Or what did Tarantino say he hates about George Clooney where he learned the head check? The head check because he learned how to act because he was on ER. He was like looking and then always at his lines. And now you can notice when he's acting. He does a down and up. He does a little the head thing like that.

George Clooney. I remember he did it as Batman. Yeah. And it was distracting because the war boards were doing this. So they have all these little things. and I saw her do the little mouth thing as a Super Surfer. I was like, oh.

It's cool when you see, like, a CJA character like have an affect that an actor has. Can I also just say the funniest part of the movie where I was just like, oh, I just wanted so much of this was when Paul Walter Houser is a bullman. They need his help. And he walks into the backster building and he's just giving Reed so much shit.

He's like, no. The apology from him. No. He got to ask. This was so good. It almost made me. want this to be the movie or at least like a good portion

of the movie. Not to say obviously I would love more Mole Man but the idea that the movie loosens up a lot when he is on screen. And the way in which those characters bounce off of Mole Man like reads talking shit, Johnny

hates him like he's like turn the lights down walking through all of these things like that brash 60s villains like it was so he should have been in the movie way more. Wait, do you think like Natasha Leon, like they cut

probably some stuff? I don't know. I don't know. The the mole man thing, like, it really gave the movie I don't know, it added so much to it. It gave the movie a little bit of stickiness for something. You could see their

characters more. It is a single scene. When he was on screen with it, when he was on screen with Reed, you could see read a little bit more. You could see sue a little bit more. Everybody's more animated in that scene. And it's like, it's a window into something that's just like a classic comic book adventure come to life where everybody is like working on all cylinders.

And it's punctuated perfectly. And even when he's like ushering it all those people into subterary, which by the way, I think it's like it's the Jersey Highway and then subteraria. Yeah. That's so funny. He's got the best line of the movie too where everybody's coming in. He's like, wipe your feet. It's like, just kidding.

I'm kidding. It's like, what was the joke he had where he's just like... Don't be mad at me, Johnny. I didn't dress you. He was like, oh, we all need... It's the end of the world. We all need to line up a little bit. Yeah.

I was just every line he had. But what I wanted to know from y'all is, do you think that this movie, like Fai Yanko, were a little bit more tuned into not making this so quippy and not making this like a typical MCU? Because, like, I actually think... I actually like that they dialed. back the like the just the Josh

weed and dialogue I'm back and I just I don't know who would be quippy in this it would be Johnny Johnny right but I think because obviously like we talked a lot about Reed like Sue wouldn't do that that's not really what things does it would just be the Johnny

Fest I don't think the movie I just I don't even think it's on a part it's on purpose I think legitimately the movie doesn't work if you're like all right we got to give somebody quips is Johnny right boom or even re like it would just be a completely different and frankly, worst movie.

It doesn't work if they're doing the 2012 Josh Wheaton type beat that they've been doing forever. And maybe we take that for granted because it feels so lopsided when it's only a single scene with Mole Man where like suddenly everything is electric and we're all smiling and

the movie's just lighter. It loses like 30 pounds off of its self-seriousness. But in contrast to what the movie actually is, I think that if we had it more consistently through throughout, maybe we would have liked it a little bit more. I might have been a bit higher on it, only because it felt so dower. Obviously, it's still a good movie.

Interesting. Because of the fact that, like, it has all the weightiness. Like, the portrayal of Reed works better in the movie without Mole Man because it feels like such a 180 from everything. The tone of the movie was, so I didn't feel it to be dower at all. Maybe a little bit. I can understand that when I think a doubt. I think about Man of Steel to where I'm like,

yeah, no, not like gray and dark world. Nor the Dark World somebody else. No, I'm like, sure. Man of Steel, I'm like, shit, bro. But the movie does take itself very seriously. Like, pick, you Superman, nigga, be happy about it. What the fuck you're doing? Yeah.

Like, you know what I'm saying? But I see what you're saying. I think the tone of the movie took a little bit of getting used to. But it was more because there was a lot happening. Yeah. These were like television scenes almost. And at first I was like, man, is Shackman not up to the job of like this big huge. These scenes were going quick.

They were going quick. It was them boom, boom. And then montage for the first 30 minutes going like, hey, these are fantastic four years what they've been doing these last four years. Right, which kind of started in almost like an episode of television. I think I heard or saw somebody else say that. But what's the movie kind of? established itself, I felt like the humor came from the, it was very reminiscent and true to life to me of

like how humor actually happens in the actual family. Absolutely. How you're kind of like fucking with each other a little bit. How you kind of know each other a little bit. How like, example, I don't know why Kalika can find stuff. I don't know why I can't find anything. Like in the house? Like, yeah.

I don't know why. Maybe it's because she puts the stuff there. Like where's the paper towels? Like, I'm leaving out this morning, and I'm like, yo, where is the omega-3 vitamins? And then I'm doing the whole thing about, then a hand goes out and there's an omega-3. That's funny. It's funny that Reed loves his brother-in-law, but you have to wonder how much he likes him. Yeah, sure.

Like, that's funny. Like, a lot of humor comes from that. But I do have questions about the movie. I want to get into my questions right now. I want to talk about some surprises because there are some surprises. There were some surprises. First question.

Why is this movie in the 60s? Why does it have to take place? Why did the movie have to take place in the 60s? I think now that I saw this movie could only take place in the 60s. Right. Tell me why. To me, when you're like,

okay, what didn't work about the other Fantastic Four movies? I think what you, what you were talking about is like these are zany super like almost pulpy characters you can tell like to me the Fantastic Four are the Brage because like Stanley and Jack Kirby

they're growing up on the pulp horror genre and the Fantastic Four are getting us into the pop art 60s superheroes that we know and I'm like to land that is very very hard in modern times I actually I kind of disagree

respectfully, but I see it purely aesthetic. It's purely aesthetic and branding for me. To know that this is Marvel's first family that started in the 60s to encapsulate looks alone. As like a tribute to Jack Kirby. As a tribute to Jack Kirby, like, we don't have any of the political machinations that happen in the 60s in this movie. And that's fine. And there's Jim Crow. Of course.

And that's not important. Y'all wanted them to put Martin Luther King. You're not going to do that. No, no, of course not. It was funny. I think Reed, I think Reed solve racism. Maybe. That's what it was. I really do. Maybe that's why they listen to my TV every day.

I think Reed's off racism, I think, because, you know, Reeve Richards comes along and he's, all of these technological advances and all of that stuff. I think all that technology that they had in that weird, retrofuturistic way, I think they maybe got overridden because they was, you know, it was black. I can give you why it was right now. You just got a nice to people's color. She was there. Yeah.

If they were going to be real, if anything was solved. I thought Ray was going to look at that black reporter and go, you don't talk to me like that, Bill. Jesus Christ. I'm Mr. Fantastic, nigga. Yo. Hey, this is the, boy. This is the, like, excuse me.

This reporting section is for white. So, the fellow section is in the back. It would be funny if he was just, if the black guy would just ask him the question, and he just looked at him like, okay. So, wait, so, wait, wait, so what am I? What are Malcolm X and Martin King Jr. doing?

Think about 2025. The thing that would get all of us to stop fighting is if some Asherdust went to space that came back with superpowers, we'd be like, oh, yo, it's late. Also, if it was some bigger shit going on, if it, like, if there were threats, if somebody was, if there was some guy,

I'm going to destroy all of New York, you'd be like, yo, man, chill on all this. other shit. Just give us the rights, okay? We got the rights. Can you imagine if the bull man was in New York City right now? It's like how are you going to be mad at the person that live across the street from you when the whole

fucking thing is about when the whole building just collapsed. Yeah, so maybe that's what happened. But I thought and another fake out that happens in the movie, me and Mallory talked about this a little bit, was that there was the assumption that this world would die, that Galaxia

would consume this world and that the Fantastic Four would be sort of a drift out in space and they had to leave maybe they had to just send Franklin and the rest of it had to go some other places or whatever but that didn't happen. I'm glad that didn't happen. Okay. I'm really

glad that did not. But that was that would be another thing that would have explained the time period because well it's a different earth. It's Earth 828. So what I will say if we take in the MCU when I think when I think it works, to me

I'm like the fantastic work in the 60s in the same reason why Kevin Faggy was like we need to do a Captain America movie in World War II. Like for you to understand this character what he means to this universe. What a fantastic point. Like all of the like

You've changed. We have to do it in this in this like time period. Yeah, but it doesn't work is Captain Marvel in the 90s. Do you realize how fucking effective? I'm going to say this aloud. Do you realize how fucking effective

as a podcaster you are? when you're not doing the bit you're not doing when he likes something it's not a bad I like this movie you're not doing a bit and what a fantastic point

yeah but like stay on time like what that fucking I like this movie I like when you shoot but you shoot you shoot like that you shoot like that

you shoot like that you shoot like that no but like I slightly counter that to say that like it works in Captain America because it actually it actually

He's taking over to a hater. I'm not going to be a good hater. I promise I won't. I promise I won't be a good hater. But it works in Captain America very well because it actually takes it into World War II in a more real way than what the 60s is because it's purely aesthetic.

The world is utopic in this movie. Right. Everybody gets along. There's a way that's Star Trek is. They got supervillains. They got supervillains, but like the world gets along. We have like flying cars. Everybody like is like the, I see a unit. We've just really got people that are trying to take over the world.

Yeah. World War II. But even think about, because this is what I think was a smart choice. When I walked out of this, I was like, oh, this is like a Star Trek episode. You know, this is like the Jetsons where it's like this version of this future. What I think was really smart about it is like this is actually how people thought about the future in the 60s. There's going to be no racism. It's what Star Trek actually.

And I was like, oh, that's a really good way into this family because I'm like, I'll put it to you this way. The things that I bumped up with in Superman that I think kind of like you have to do is like if you're going to set Superman in the modern times, you want Superman to go up against the ills of the world because he represents hope. For me and the Fantastic

I'm like, there was so much shit happening in the 60s. I don't know about what. And this and we should talk about this because this is part of what being a black fan of anything

saddles you with. My world is formed through the struggle for black justice. That's how I was raised. I was raised to understand abundance through scarcity.

So like, I'm somewhere and I go, oh, you're happy for this meal, you pray for this meal, not because the meal is nourishing you, but because there are people who are not eating. And so that's a fundamental part of the way you look at stuff.

Like, there was a point to, I'm looking at all of this stuff, and then there was a point to when I realized that nobody black had made any of the stuff that I loved as far as sci-fi and comic book stuff. And then my mother goes, it's actually not true, son. You love this, you love that, you love that. But there's a way that you view this stuff.

So, like, when I would watch Mad Men, I like, I like, man, but I'll be like, you know, what the niggas is up to, man? I know it's just like, what's going on? in the madman situation. Name me your favorite black X-Men writers. This is a book about

the metaphor is supposed to be about race. And that's the thing as a black thing you got to do. You'd be like, damn, the X-Men are my favorite, but they don't let no niggas write this shit. But also, can I be real with you? It's a double-edged sword.

And the reason why it is is because so much of this stuff is fantasy. And as I've gotten older, what I've asked myself is, am I saddling myself with the ills and realities of my world and muting my escapism by not being able to fall into a vision of the 60s where these things aren't happening? Yeah.

And it's not an easy question to answer because it actually even comes back to your own creativity. Every time I write something or every time I conceptualize something, that's in there. So I'm not on the stars or on another planet. And a lot of these writers aren't either. They're using these things to, like, make commentary about stuff that's happening in our actual world. But I want it to be direct. I want Thing to be walking down the street and see some black people at the sit-in and look at them.

And then they look back at Thing. And then Thing goes and destroys the Woolworts. Like, I want to be... You know what I mean? Like, I want to be direct. Don't. It didn't, it, it, it, I'm not saying that they have to be in this movie. I'm just saying that if something's set in the 60s, the first thing I think is,

niggas is catching hell. I'm not going to lie, but I saw all the black people, like, to your point, when I saw all the black people at the press conference, like, gay nap for me, I was just like, damn. You're brave. I was like, shit. And once they reboot the whole universe, it's going to be seeing a Johnny hanging out with Peter Parker, Peterson would be like, yeah, man, I'm in college right now, I'm taking

African-American studies. He's going to be like, what? He'd be like, don't worry, bro. Let me educate you. Wait, can I be real, though? Let me pitch you on something. This is why I actually won another fantastic, like, four movie.

Can you imagine if we had a version of Black Panther from the 60s? From this season? From this world. Like, can you imagine? Like, his dad? Oh, no. Are they helping? Are they out there?

No, here's the thing. Our version of Black Panther, he comes into New York. He's like, I'm free of my people. Fuck y'all. Can y'all imagine? See, this is a type of shit. You know, I'll tell you why I'm never going to have, like, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy money. One is because, you know, my talent isn't commiserate with that much money.

But I would also say that, like, I would do stupid stuff with it. When we rode Star Wars Rise of Resistance, I was like, if I was Jeff Blasos, I would have this at my house. Right. I would have better than that house. I would have, like, all of the other shit, I would have this at my house. I was at my house and there would be people that worked in full time. This would be how you get breakfast in the morning.

People would come over and they would come over to the crib. We come over to the crib and I'll be like, hey, that is actually one of the greatest ringerverse moments of my life. It was so right. And that ride was literally like, three times in a row.

I would be like, yo, y'all want to go ride, ride at a resistance. You would take meetings on it? Take meetings on it to hold it. I would have it at my house. Wait, can you, I would say, if it was me, can you imagine having like a shoddy

or be like, hey, I got a choice. Remember, I'm talking to, it's totally sad. All these people do all day long. The line operators. It's totally a billion dollar. I'm talking about it's costing $300 million a year for me. Like, fuck it.

Right? To just run riders and resistance, whatever you want. I'm people. I'm helping people, right? I'm already a billionaire. So I fucked over untold numbers of people to get to wear. What's the difference doing? No, you guys, you got it.

You're going to get. get the kids from the community, you know? You can be like, hey, you know. You're going to rise in a resistance. But if I was Black Panther and I had those powers and I was in Wiconda, I'd spent the entire 60s fucking over white people. The whole 60s. Even the utopic 60s?

Like, well, the utopic 60s, they wouldn't need it. But like, I would be down there just using, like, just doing all kinds of crazy shit. Right. Going into the places where it says whites only jumping back. behind the fucking thing. Eating all of their shit, throwing it on the fucking ground. Pick it up.

And they were to try to shoot you, but you got the vibrating on you. You could. Bro. Scratching the shit out of people, leaving scars on people's faces. Like, scratch. Scratch.

All types of shit would have been going on. I'd have been one of Dr. King's bodyguards. You want to know what? The police got the dogs out at the Civil Rights. We're bringing the fucking rhinos in. I'm bringing a whole fucking... The rhino horns and shit. Have a lot of them.

and shuri or whoever cut the water off. Oh, there's no, the holes water. Do you go as far as to when they're doing the Montgomery bus, boycott you like, hey, I'm my niggas. We're going to ride on this Wakanda. The spaceship. Everybody would have had a car. And we'd have been zooming to all the spaceshists.

The buses for y'all. We've got space. We zoom in all over Montgomery. Can you imagine black people? It goes right. In 1865, I just got to say this. But, man, shout out to Tachaca. I know you.

Tachaka, bro, or maybe that would have even been, trying to think of how old Tachaca would have been. Nah, it would have been him, like, Tachaca or his dad or whoever it was. For them niggas is not to care, bro. That's a lot. That was a lot. It was a little bit for shit, bro. They had to watch the news every day.

Oh, shit! It makes sense Jomi's party. All right. All right. It makes sense. Me. Oh, there it comes. Hunged up.

Me. While we was all this coming back to. J'all was acting like the Wakandians. Y'all was acting like the Wakandans at your party. Y'all was probably giving out little pieces of vibranium over there and that. Y'all was acting like the Wakandans. You, this is nasty work, Jomey.

Come down, we would not, we would not do that. Don't act like that. That's great. Why would you say that? Why would you say that? I mean, if we go back through the history books, I kind of already did it. But what you do that? Can we get back to Fantastic Four?

Should we talk about, we got to talk about Doom? So the Duke thing is interesting because so... Wait, before you explain, let's just talk about, like, what actually happens in that stinger before. Right. It's just they're reading books. Four years later. Four years later, right? So he's grown. He's a toddler. Got crooked teeth. This teeth is trying to fall out. And he's also reading what...

Charles Darwin. Charles Darwin, which I'm also like, I'm like, don't give this man the fucking... It's his favorite book. He loves it. And she's like, no, we got to read child-appropriate books. She wants to raise them like a normal child, right? And she comes back and she feels a little present. She's got her, you know, Forstfield Powers working.

And we see Doom, like, right next to Franklin, I think. And she's got a mask in the left hand. And throughout this whole movie, they did a very, like. Laveria. A lot of very. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. at the OLO, UN, Future Foundation meetings. So, continue to join me? I think the most interesting part of that particular scene is that if you're familiar with Doom and his relationship with the richest family, his favorite child is Valeria. Valeria.

Name after him. Name after him, right? Because he saved. He helped. Saved him, her and Sue's life. Yeah. When she was getting birth, he was off being aloof, not paying attention.

He was like, I'll save your daughter and your wife's life, but I got to name her, And she's got to be my goddaughter. Which is crazy. Which is nuts. It's a crazy ball. I love that shit. I love that.

Like, Doom at some point remains a villain but becomes a part of the family. It's such an odd thing. And they have a great relationship, him and Valeria. Like, she can come call him whenever what she wants. Like, they are tight like this. But I'm seeing that scene. And I'm like, huh. It's interesting that he took, like, he's there with Franklin.

like, I, and something like we've, like, tossed around, like, is Doom trying to rebuild a universe? Who better in the MCU to rebuild a universe than Franklin and Richards? So Franklin Richard in this MCU version, do we think he's kidnapping Franklin, essentially to wipe the entire multiverse and then just build a battle world where he's king? I would hate to have Franklin Richards be a McGuffin again, but I think that's a better.

Mr. McGuffin. Yeah. I mean, we're going to know pretty soon. This movie did not do a lot to get us towards Doom Day. Doomsday almost nothing. So it contained story. But only in this thing or didn't do anything, there was no incursion. There was no explanation as to.

The Thunderbolts, the shit. None of that stuff. Are we getting incursions in this? Maybe. This is something that we talked about. about in Dr. Strange Wilson versus Madness, right? It was the reason why they were talking about how all these, or the strange with the devil strange at the end of the movie.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We know these things existed. That's why they didn't fuck with Dr. Strange at the beginning when he showed up to that. But they haven't brought that plot point back. I don't think, like, did they bring it up in Loven season two? Spider-Man is straight level. Yeah. So it, I'm not, I'm not saying, look, whatever happens, happens.

I don't know if this doom is from Earth-A-Greasing. if that doom is from Earth 616 or any other or where or any other earth don't know where that doom is from don't know what's going on but I do know that I was legitimately surprised to see doom right the stinger was incredibly effective yeah um and it kind of it asked more questions than it answered I mean really it didn't answer any questions

Would this movie have been better? Because I don't think so. But would this movie have been better if it was more connected to the Marvel universe? If it was more like we're getting incursions, we're getting Doom, because I actually think that they made a very smart decision of like we need to prove that the Fantastic Four

can stand on their own. Because part of me was like, oh, is Avengers Doom's Day going to kind of just have to be like a Fantastic Force sequel? They need to focus on their characters. But it's an interesting Catch-22 because we have had so many Marvel projects with that is just a graveyard of post-credit scenes

that went nowhere. And now when we're on the precipice of the next biggest Marvel event film, we don't actually have that many threads to pull on for where we're going, what we should actually be caring about, or who really is going to be our guiding light here. I've seen an article with the guiding light thing.

I get it. There's only one robber down Junior. No, I understand that. What do you mean? The fact that we don't have that many things to, like, not so much care about, but we don't really know, like, what we're going to be expecting at all. And I get that we didn't have that much to go on when it came to end game, but, or at,

not end game, uh, Infinity War. But Infinity War was just go. We know all, everything where everybody's at pretty much. It's just. So the thing with Infinity War was, like, Infinity War was able to start right away because you know, the character so well, and you knew that they had given you so much of Thanos in these respective films.

Not necessarily. I would argue that's wrong. No. They had given you, they had given you, it's not true. They had given you enough of Thanos and. Not so much, though. But they had given you so much of him. He had showed up.

You knew what he wanted to do. Sure. Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy. Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Avengers 2. I'll do it myself. He grabs them. That's a 10-second scene. I understand, but my point is...

And then, to be honest with you, even at the end of Thor Ragnarok, when Sanctuary pops up, like, you, they can start the movie without saying anything other than this is the guy you've been seeing for the last next amount of time. And not only that,

but in Guardians, Thanos is in the movie looking for the power stone. So you know he wants the stones. You've seen him in different places. You know he's looming. He's out there over a couple of different properties. I would say that that's so much without being too much. Fair.

But I would argue the most effective part of Infinity War is not only making Thanos the main character, essentially, but that first part on the Asgardian ship where he lays out everything, where he's like, I'm, he beats up Hulk. he takes off his armor, he's talking to Thor, like the entire, that entire bit lets you know, this guy's in charge, he's a menace, he's going to be a problem, you have to contend with him, can they do it? The answer is ultimately no.

That's what Doomsday has to do. So can I ask you this, though, now that I'm thinking about it, we were talking about, and this might be another reason why they said it, in like a very 60s utopia-type place, do you think part of Doomsday is going to be like the Fantastic Four we're getting to our MCU and be like,

damn, y'all niggas live like this. You know what I'm saying? They're like, they're looking like, then it's doom. Like, what part of me is, I'm like, I think what they're going to do is like, like, they robbed you of your history. Like, that's what Hickman and his new ultimate universe has been,

like, where it's like, y'all didn't have the Fantastic Four. You didn't have the X-Men. They robbed you of this shit. And you know what I mean? What a great matter of commentary that was. You sounded like fucking Elijah Muhammad right now, Robbed you, you history. Why do we think the Fantastic Four is

why do we think that they are headed towards the Thunderworld Earth? Like, why? Why is that happening now? Is their world still going to be destroyed by Dr. Drew? By Dr. Drew? By Dr. Dome. Is their world still going to be destroyed by Dr. Dome? Did it just not happen in this movie? Are they still going to be...

To your point, the scene with the St.Tree are coming up. maybe we open and he's like yeah i got i'm taking your son i got to go fix the earth i gotta i'm i'm a i'm a see y'all they're like we got to go get franklin and that's the introduction of dr den that we get in for doomsday and they're following him to our earth i would i would love obviously to see more of these characters but i don't think we're going to get it's going to be like we're not going to get a solo movie for them for a while yeah i just imagine that there's a lot of explaining for other characters to ping pong off of before there's actually like a through line, but again, if there's

a, if there's, we wouldn't have this problem if Kang was still around. Man, fuck King. I understand. I understand, fuck Kang. Also working, bro. The box office. Steve, can you get a, tell us what this is going to do domestically, internationally, and then

globally and how that kind of matches up with the summer. Yeah, so we are looking at about 190 to 110 million in a global opening. International projections are around 90 to 100. Domestics around 100 to 110. Rotten Tomatoes is about like 86. It's looking pretty good, but tracking,

it doesn't seem to be like it's going to be moving mountains for Marvel. It seems like it's going to be around Superman. So, Van, is this a win? Do you think quality of the movie can get that up? Or do you think this is just like we needed to prove we could make a critically acclaimed movie that makes profit, and we just kind of got to be patient? I think with Marvel right now, anything that's not a loss is a win. And when I say loss, I mean a financial loss and a critical loss.

This movie cannot lose money. Thunderbolts looks like it's probably going to lose a little bit of money, maybe right at break-even. This movie needs to make money. And it needs to be well-received. Getting back to even the comparisons that we're doing right now with the summer of 2019, when we're comparing the state of movies. This summer is wildly successful. Yeah.

From a movie standpoint. You don't have to compare it to 19 because the reality is that 19 had both Rise of Skywalker and In Game in the same summer, and it just completely destroyed the boss office of the summer. So this summer is already a wild success.

This movie is, to me, a success because it's good, because it's cohesive, because it's, creatively competent, but if it doesn't become profitable for Marvel, it's just another question about whether or not anything that's not Avengers

or Spider-Man works at the studio anymore. I mean, Spider-Man brand-new-day will be gigantic. Yes, it will. That's a billion dollars. So they'll, so... But same thing with the Avengers, even if the Avengers movie, people are like, whatever, like, they know they got at least two,

billion dollars, like, or at least not hundred. Like, can you imagine Dooms Day or Secret World? That, those movies, if you can't get, yeah, I mean, you're going to have the X-Men and those. So, like, those movies will be, yeah. If you can't break a billion on those, then you have real problem. But I also think this is what's interesting

about the Superman versus Fantastic Four of it all, which is like, I think what I'm starting to realize is I'm like, oh, Superman and Fantastic Four are on the same level now. Where it's just like, to your point, I'm like, if it's not Avengers, if it's not X-Men, if it's not Batman. It's not Spider-Man. If it's not Spider-Man, like, a win probably is in the, like, if you could get to

6-7, it's not a home run, but like it's... Take close. But I want you guys to remember Batman Begins, though, right? So I want you guys to remember the transitional movie after the franchise had died or lost its steam and lost its luster and what that meant. I want you guys to remember Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man movies. I want you guys to remember the reception,

not the box office, but the reception of Spider-Man 3. So none of these characters are as durable as what we think they are. Like, Batman Begins as a film was an insane reinvention of the character that really worked well. But the box office on it was light.

And the reason why it was light, it wasn't light for what the expectations of the movie were. But people had to be reintroduced to Batman. Yeah. They have to be reintroduced to Batman. And everyone even knew. I remember there was MTV.

I've talked about this before. On the MTV Movie Awards, they did a sketch, skit, some sort. And Robert Downey Jr. was in the sketch. And there was a kid that was with Robert Dollar Jr. I was playing whoever's Ben Stiller, I think. Oh, was this for Tropic Thunder? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And he goes, he's a big Iron Man fan. And then Robert Donny Jr. he looks at him and goes, oh my God, wants to talk to him. And he goes, yeah, it'll do until the dark night comes out. The movie was so anticipated, but that was because of the groundwork that was laid by Batman Begins, which was a movie that didn't go crazy in terms of the box office. So, you know, these things being what they are right now in the present, doesn't mean that they're going to be what they are two or three movies from now.

Like the next Superman movie could cross a billion dollars, could cross $1.4.4. $5 billion could be something closer to what the Dark Night the next Fantastic Four more, the same thing. I would say even the Batman, like the Batman didn't do a Billy, but like the anticipation because we had to wait. We're like, what the fuck is Matt Reeves cooking? Why it takes so long?

I would not be surprised if that Batman movie does it way better than the first, not way better, but better than the first one because we're like, oh shit, like they pulled it off. James Gunn, like, he's probably not doing Superman 2, but to your point, Superman 2 comes out, people are like, I trust the product now. I trust the fucking vision. Yeah.

They're out there. They're back on it. You know, go ahead. With that, do we want to get into the midnight meter? Sure. All right, guys, y'all know what the midnight meter is. One to ten, traditional ranking, one being the worst, 10 being the best, 11 and 12 reserve for absolute game changers. Start with you, Jomey.

I was always talking with me. Golly. I am going to go with a seven. I think that I enjoyed this movie a lot. obviously I talked about how much I enjoyed the space stuff with Galactus and Galactus in general. I enjoyed the family stuff a ton. There are, we didn't get to talk about it too much, but there are some like very, the same thing with Superman, very like heavy on the nose stuff. It's not a perfect movie.

It's not a perfect movie. But I enjoyed the revenge of these characters that I fell in love with all the way back in 2005. And so seven works for me. Yeah. Seven for me as well. Very strong, very fun. Some of the best-looking sequences in a moral-for movie that have happened in a very long time.

Characters are great, but there are some major Rocky Stumbles for me in there that pull it down. Rocky Stumbles? Yeah, Rocky Stumbles. Here's the thing. Clobbering time. It's an eight. Yeah.

Fun movie. Had a lot of fun. Movie works. Go see it. Yeah. It's an eight for me. It's an eight. And I think it's the type of film that will get better upon repeat viewing.

You know, so it's an eight. I've got to give it out. This is the easiest, strongest eight I've ever given to a movie. It's probably the first time I can remember in forever where I want to see this movie again in theaters. When I, like, it ended, I was like, oh, I want to see this fucking again. You know, so it's like a very strong hate. But what I wanted to ask y'all, my last question is, where does Fantastic Four rank in terms of inaugural

MCU movies. So we have 13. Iron Man Hulk, Thor, Captain America of the First Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man Doctor Strange, Spider-Man Black Panther,

Captain Marvel, Black Widow Shang Chi, Eternal Thunderbolts. So what tier does Fantastic Four get to? So it is better than every movie on this list

except for Black Panther and Iron Man. And Gar-Man. Guardians. And Guardians. So you say Iron Man, Gardens of the Galaxy, Black Panther. Wait, what about Spider-Man Homecoming? No, it's better than that.

I think it's tied. I think it's tied. I think it's tied. I think there's easily a top tier with Iron Man, Guardians, and Black Panther. Like, that's the top three. Yeah. That goes in the tier. This is on the Spider-Man Homecoming, Ant-Man tier for me, I think.

But what tier is that? Because I would have that in two. Yeah. There's S-tier and eight. If I put eight, if I'm thinking about the top of the second tier, it's like Dr. Strange. Dr. Strange is a step. Dr. Strange ain't no S tier. That's eight tier.

Bro. That's B. That's B. D. Guys, I firmly think that Dr. Strange is better than Spider-Man homecoming. Yes. Dr.

Strange is very, very good. This is no. This is no. I will put them in the same tier that I don't know. I'm not re-watch this shit. No. I don't disagree with it. Dr. Strange is better than you think is a B-tier Marvel movie to be.

I'm telling you, I firmly think that it's cold. The rest of these, you know, Sean Shee. I take a turtles over Dr. Strange. No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. They can't stop the cap right now. Nah, no, no, come on. Not doing that.

But you know what? Honestly, Thunderbolts, so they're 13 here, so that you could really go five, five, than three. Thunderbolts is lower A tier, high B tier. Same thing. Yeah, I like Thunderbolts better than. But that's what I mean. I put this here because if you think about it,

I think we're a little bit, it's hard to be overly excited about Fantastic Four because I think this is like the 37th Marvel movie. But when you like go in between of like, oh, where does this sit? You're like, oh, this was actually one of their more successful origin movies. For sure. The only thing I would say about the Thunderbolts

about being on this list is they had all been in other movies before. Or other projects. But as a team, other projects before. I mean, Avengers don't on here. Then you put Avengers there. Avengers would be would be yesterday but you can't

I don't think that's fair yeah I think it's unfair to Thunderbol's to put that in this I don't think that's fair I mean Black Panther had been in other movies before too so I guess you got but it's not

but Thunderball still still feels like an origin movie to me I get what y'all was saying I get what you mean I get what you mean you can go either way on it Is Black Widow last? Yeah Latino

No no See that don't that don't count as a I wouldn't have Y'all gonna be mad at me what I think what I think is tied for the last

I think Captain Marvel Eternal is our board Captain Marvel? Captain Marvel is not a good movie It's not a good movie I thought you were gonna say Captain America No Captain America is C tier No shut up it's way better than that So my top would be so if I if

you can only have three then really really Hulk is last but if you were really Holt is not last Hoke's not last Holt kind of sucks but if you if you could have three My three would be Iron Man, which is besides Superman 1978,

the greatest origin superhero story ever. And it might be more important of a... It's absolutely. Yeah. So, well, no, you, Superman starts to... We can't get same rainy Spider-Man up in there? It's very important, too. It's incredibly important.

But, I mean, for what Hollywood is now, true. Iron Man. very important. That is, yeah. It's different. So it would be Iron Man. It would be Black Panther.

I just got to put it up there, even though my, you know, and guardians. Those are the top three. And then. Undisputable, yeah. The second, the B ones are going to be for me, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man, and the Fantastic Four. I like the first time, man. I put that up there. Put that in there.

All right. Now, because we just got to do it for the clip farming. You just got to do it for the clip farm. Superman, Fantastic Four, they're both out.

Superman was slightly better to me. Yeah. I think Fantastic Four was slightly better. There you go. Superman was slightly better. I think Superman was better, but I enjoyed Fantastic Four more. Interesting.

Superman to me was slightly better just because, it was just, this is gonna sound so stupid, it was just slightly more, it was more interesting. It was just more interesting. There's more movie.

Yeah, it was just more interesting. Cooler shit happened, but a lot of crazy, cool shit happened in Fantastic Four, too. I would just rather watch. I was thinking of like which movie is going to fall apart on rewatch more for me. And I think Superman is going to fall apart a lot faster than Fantastic Four will. But with that being said, I think both of these movies have a like second act, third act problem where I'm like, yo, y'all both started off so well.

And it's almost like the movie's over promise and then kind of underdelivered towards the end. You know what this comes down to? Superman is my kind of movie, Fantastic, but Four is your kind of movie. That's really what it comes down to. That's why to me they're on the same team. Like I think I gave Superman an eight, I believe. These are both eights to me. It's just like because we don't do points,

it'd be like, it's the difference between like an 8.2 and like an 8.5. Like, yeah, I think, I mean, for me, like the scene of them meaning a lot, like all of that space stuff, it's out of the both movies, that's probably the most, the most fun I've had into the theater at both of those movies. So it's tough,

because I think to your point, like what Superman does is just, it's a better constructed movie. But I think that they, that Fantastic Four does well also. It does incredibly well. So it's tough. I think I had more fun in Fantastic Four,

but Superman's just the better... I agree. I agree. Hell yeah. That's a wrap. This week on the Ringrverse Feed. We're at ComicCon right now. This weekend, you can expect to see our panel from Comic Con.

And later, both House of R and Midnight Boys will be giving you their recaps and reports from San Diego, along with a bunch of San Diego Comic-Con content coming soon. Our producers are Leah Zanaris, Jay Whaley John Richter Jonathan Fris Frias

Drum me a dinner on on on social Get Jummi drunk hashtag Get Jomi drunk Get Jomi drunk Hatshtags Say get Jomi drunk

Wait what No you know what we need to play As your intro music At the panel What? Everybody in the club Gat Jumie in the club game I got a fake ID though

You gotta play the Shibuzi version All right Shibuzi I need to be over, bro. I'm proud of you. I needed to be over. But I needed to end. I'm talking. I'm not a shibuzzi song. It's very bad.

Okay, so I fuck with the song, but it's time for it to be over. Whoa. Before you read, you got some words for a man. Who? James Gunn. Oh, shit.

Hold on for a second. Let's clear out. Let's clear out. Additional production from a June rhyme Kapal. This is about to be for post credits. Do not go nowhere. Because here come the post critics.

Shut, take us out. All right. Charles is positive. Steve's been a little bit mixy. Visit us at Comic-Con so you can see Jomey get a little tipsy. Boom! Play the James Gunn's sound real quick.

I never understood what any of the faces were in Marvel. I don't know what any of it means. Like, I have no clue what it means. I have no clue with any of that stuff ever meant. I knew there were Infinity Stones when they said, you know, we've been thinking, and we think that maybe some of these things have been infinity stones in different ways. And so could you write up what the infinity stones mean? When I wrote the scene with the collector, explaining that, you know, there was his explosion

and then the infinity stones were born and what they mean and where they came from, that was literally me just sitting down for three minutes and writing that. And that's then what became the rest of the infinity stones. There was never anybody that said anything other than, I think, the red thing and the blue thing are going to end up being Infinity Stones. That wasn't in the plan to begin with. No. I made up to Infinity Stones in two seconds.

I have no idea what... I had no idea that it was going to become what it was going to become. Jesus Christ. James Gunn, you need to clarify this. You need to clarify this, James Gunn. You know what he means. I know you getting your little shit on.

We love you, James Goh. We love you so much. We love you. But you need to clarify this. A lot of dip on a chip. Because you making it seem like you sat in a room and came up with the Infinity Stones and we know that ain't true. That's not what he said.

We know that ain't true. That's how it comes off. In the clip, he's like, Marvel needed to put the Infinity Stones in the MCU. They needed to basically backdate how they got there. He had to come up with how they existed. That's all right. That's all right. That is true.

That is true. That is true. I see it. I see it. We love you. James Gunn, we love you. But when I watched that, I got emotional. You was mad.

I was on the Infinity Stones in like 92. The gyms as they were called. Yeah. So look, look now, I know you over there with it. You know what this kind of is? This is kind of a easy talk me moment from James Gunn. You know what I'm saying? Like, just let you know, I'm over here now.

Shit. Jesus. That chick didn't know nothing about sparkling water before she got with me. No, my. She was drinking it out to tap. How many more weeks a kid like James Gunn, like, talk his shit before we, before everybody got to be like. He's got through the end of Comic-Com. Yeah.

Through the end of Comic-Comicon? Like, you got one movie on the board, man. Like, relax. James Gunn got Kevin Feigy acting weird. Kevin Feigy inviting people into his house and doing all-downs. So weird interviews at Disney, like he got Kevin Feigey acting weird. It's getting real weird between the guys. The salaries leaked.

And then you saw that James Gunn? James Gunn is kind of out here getting this shit off. James Gunn. He was doing Rick and Morty episodes, man. James Gunn is out here like, you know, I got $15 million for this movie. Superman only got two. That's great. No, not even two.

No, $750. He got $7.50. No, I think it was $750. Yeah, it was $750. So, you know, James. Well, James, he's paying himself. He's like, man. This is the East Coast West Coast beef and I'll just say bad boys' records.

Stop me. I'm telling you. James Gun, bro. Come to death row. Come to death row. I'm telling you, James Gunn, I'll hear, man. Just relax, James. Oh, Big James.

Take your foot off their neck, Big James. You don't hurt him, Big James. Don't hurt him. Don't hurt him. Big James out there. Take your foot off their neck, Big James. Big James, like, I invented your block. Big James, cool out.

We got completely scripts over here. We got, yeah, like, we got, come on. Jimmy G, not playing with you. Come over here, DCU, what I'm saying? Like, Big James, chill on them. Jimmy G, not playing with you. Let them breathe. Let them breathe, Big James.

That gun is the gun not jam. I'm telling you. They let that chopper same, baby. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention.

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