The Ringer-Verse - The Force Arrives on ‘Andor’: Reactions to Season 2, Episodes 7-9 | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

The Boys are back, and they’re diving into ‘Andor’ Season 2, Episodes 7-9. They discuss why these episodes feel monumental in the 'Star Wars' universe. (0:00) Intro (3:36) Spoilers ahead (6:25) Initial reactions (1:29:29) Outro Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Ring ofverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's next podcast, for all things, fandom. We are Steve, the architect of all in the builder and tinker of things.

We are, Jomi, the explainer at dinner on. You've got questions. He's got answers. Old Man, Van, hear the receding resurgent, hairline, Coke, baby Chuck, the 24-carric closer. Together, we are known as out of midnight, boys. Fouts on socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. Jomi.

People are loving the movie content coming from us on the socials, man. The center stuff is popping. And the Thunderbolt stuff, the director with the interview with the director. Excuse me, what did you say? New Avengers. All right. All right, don't be going to start attacking us now. His mama name, I'll call him Clay.

Nah, nah, it's Thunderbolts. You know, you know, people always say that. People say that like his mama name and him Clay, I'm going to call him Clay. I want people to realize the guy who refused to call Muhammad Ali, Muhammad Ali got his fucking ass kid. Yeah. Mahmahali beat the shit. Go ahead, Joe me.

Nah, man, all that stuff is going crazy, man. We're popping off, guys. The price of the brick going up. It is. It is. It is. That was funny. It was funny.

It was funny. It was funny. But, you know, then you don't have to box it. We're on YouTube. Like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every midnight, Boys, a house of art episode on YouTube. dot com, backslash at Ring of Verse,

and also on Spotify. Programming Reminders. programming. I'm gonna do it like like I'm answering the phone somewhere. Programming reminders. Okay. You put your white people voice on?

Yeah. No, I feel bad now because like I hate what a telemarketer will like hit me with just like a really nice voice. I'd have to be like, yeah, nah, fuck this. How are you still talking to telemarketers in 2025? Because sometimes they fucking like, it's like a phone number and I'm just like, fuck, I think I know this.

I didn't save it and you open. I'm like, you answer numbers that you don't know? Oh my God. Steve is being pedantic to. That's crazy. Who answers phone numbers? Steve, not for this episode. This is a very important episode of the pod in January.

Can we not today with your pedantic little ass? Steve is being pedantic today. That's okay, Steve. I'm having fun. This week, House of Horror brings you their deep dive on Android. You guys watch the movies of Mike Flanagan? Yeah. That's the dude that'd be doing the Netflix horror stuff.

Yes. I watch one. It's fucking terrifying. You see Dr. Sleep? Yeah. So, no, no, I haven't seen that one. I watched the, what's the one it's called? Midnight Mass.

Midnight Mass. Terrifying. Masterpiece. No, I can't too, that's. Glad you guys having fun. Yeah. Thursday, Butmash dives into The Last of Us. We're going to have to have a conversation about which show is the show that's being left out.

There's a lot of shows happening right now. Right. Andor's cooking. Yeah. Last of Us is cooking. A lot of stuff is on the plate right now. Sizzling. This is on the plate of content.

Like the fajitas Walking by But I feel like there's some things that are being left off the plate What's getting left off the plate? Well, I'm not sure. The Midnight boys have fucking talked about Every single goddamn TV show and movie. Not us.

Not us. But the cultural conversations, are we leaving things off the plate? And or is getting left off the plate? And or it's getting left off the plate a little bit. And the Midnight boys give you their last of us reactions right when the episode ends. We're right on top of things from the day show. We give you our instant reactions.

Oh my god, daddy. To the latest episodes of Andor. Spoiler warning. For everything Star Wars to date. Wait, wait, guys, before we get into it, let's make sure we're on our A game. Okay. I shut the fuck up.

Clea. Dead warning. For everything Star Wars up to date, Steve. We're getting ready to talk about. Cassianander. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. We have to put you in the know.

And there's a lot of dense shit going on here. Charles, this is a very important midnight manifest, but you don't want to do it. So go ahead and let us happen. All right, this is your midnight manifest for Andor, episode 7 through 9, directed by Janus Metz, written by Dan Gilroy. It's BBI2.

Cassing and Vicks reside on Gavin, having cut ties with Luthin. Wilman interrupts their peace when he reveals that Lutthin knows the whereabouts of Dydra, of Dedra and wants Cachein to take her out. Trying to coaxe cashing out of his self-imposed exile, Bix takes Cassing to a forciiler that senses that he's a messenger of great importance to the galaxy.

Partigaz finally informs Degra that it's time for her to call a declaration of martial domain so the empire can strip corpsmen of its chalcite rendering the planet uninhabitable. Dedra is partnered with Captain Kido, a crisis specialist, concocting a plan to massacre Gorman's during a peaceful protest, giving the empire the final push they need to take over the planet. When Cyril finds out about Dejra's long plan, he chokes his lover, realizing how many people they both have said to die.

The Gorman front falls into the empire's trap. Cassian is unable to successfully take out Dedra, but is finally found by a despondent Cyril. In a drawn-out fight, Cyril takes all of his anger out on Cassian, who doesn't even remember who he is. And then Papa Gorman takes out zero before he can kill Cassian. Cassian returns to Gavin, only to get his heartbroken, Bix, now able to connect with the force, or at least feel it, realizes Cassing needs too much

of the rebellion and he can't fulfill his destiny if she's around. And then, last, but certainly not least, Senate security is tracking on Mothma. Bail Organa tells the senator she needs to escape to Yavin to lead the rebels there while he stays behind on Corrista by her time. Luton intercepts this plan to inform Mon that Bales' team responsible for getting her off planet has been compromised and she needs to follow a spy, aka Cassian, that he's sending to take her off planet, no longer able to trust Luton and sure she'll end up like take home a.

Mothman delivers her speech and announcing the empire with not much of an extra strategy. Luckily, Cassian saves Maude from death imperial agents and tells her to make all of this worth it. That has been your very long midnight man. This episode is brought to you by

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disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiara.com. That's what that being said.

Van, how are we feeling about these monumental episodes, Van D. I have a couple of things to say, first of all. As he was doing the manifest, what were you guys doing? I was getting hyped for the events of the episode. just remembering of them. Yeah, man. I was just

re-calling it. You know, rest of peace take coma, man. He didn't deserve that. Yeah. And it's the game.

Man, you know what I mean? We're not poor. Okay, and I have another question. Where is the confidence monitor? Confidence monitor. Why do you think it's off?

Why do you think it's off? I demand that it's turned back home. It's gone, babe. Yeah, why is the confidence monitor? And I guarantee you that, I guarantee you that the next time

we pop, the confidence monitors will be on. I demand that they are on. Let's take this. Let's run this up the chain. Let's run this up the chain. This was a... I've consumed a lot of Star Wars content over the years.

Yeah. Like a lot of Star Wars content. A lot of explainer videos. A lot of Explaner videos. I've read a lot of comic books. I've seen a lot of stuff. When I watched these three episodes of Star Wars content, I got the feeling that this is what Star Wars was always.

dreamed to be. We talk about Lucas and his vision and the stories that he wanted to tell and how maybe in 77 he didn't really have the technology or he couldn't shoot at the scale that he needed to make Star Wars and to what he to tell the story exactly the way that he wanted to tell. And he talks about this all the time. It's him talking about it, not me. when I watch this, I thought, these are the stakes inside of the world.

I understand exactly where I'm at. I know exactly how I'm supposed to feel. And I get why everything on screen is so important. I want people to remember, we know all of it. We know where Bill O'Gonna dies. We know Ma'Amah's going to make it out, right? We know where Cassing the Indoor dies. We know where all of this stuff is going.

and it just doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't matter in the least that we know. Because there's so many other things that, A, we don't know and so many other things that we haven't seen. And from scene to scene, the tension that's being strung together, just masterful, masterful, masterful, masterful, masterful stuff. I mean, I think when I watched these three episodes, I don't think I know,

this was just one of the greatest three episodes of TV. The series is like, I think it. it's kind of just eclips Star Wars to me in terms of that feeling of watching something on TV be done at such a high level. And for the Star Wars of it all, I think, Star Wars works on so many levels and Andor works on so many levels.

And I think there is the war part of it of how does fascism rise? How do you get to this point? How is this a part of a cycle? And then you have the emotional, like, through line of how can you love someone? What does love mean? under this pressure, under this tyranny. But I think what these three did for me is that Gilroy and company finally hit on the mythic quality

of Star Wars. I was vibrating when Bix takes Andor to the Force Healer because in other interviews, go check out our brothers on the watch. They interviewed Tony Gilroy. And he's been talking about how Cassian is a mezzionic figure, a Christ-like figure. And this episode I was like vibrating because this felt like the moment

we were always leading to where and or showing us that someone who's not even sure if the force is real, it's not like he can wield it. He's not a Jedi. But he's important. This person who's not a Jedi,

but is close to this feeling, this religion sees something in him. She calls him messenger, someone who's carrying the past, someone who has some in port. And it was so interesting to me where I was just like, oh, this feels like a Luke Skywalker moment. This feels like us Cassie of being on the precipice of greatness,

but denying it, of Christ being like, can I really do this? Like, am I really, like, am I the person? And I just, I almost started crying when Vicks left. Like, I almost, like, I was teared up. I was like, oh, we've spent so many hours with this man. And it's like his suffering still isn't over. I just thought it was a masterclass. in storytelling, in sci-fi, in Star Wars storytelling,

it was like kudos to the team. So Last Jedi sought to democratize the force and make the force something that everybody can wield broomboy and all that stuff. And it was met with sort of a mixed reaction from people because the force is meant to be special. It's a talent, something that is innate, but it's something that everybody has.

I think this movie has democratized Star Wars heroism in a way that other things haven't been able to because most stuff is oriented around the Skywalker's and the people that are tangential to them, right? We've seen other stuff where heroes that are not connected to the Skywalker's around. We've seen Ezra, some other people from a Clone Wars. We've seen the Bad Batch. seeing all kinds of Star Wars heroes and all different types of Star Wars fights, all kinds of stuff. I don't think we've ever seen a hero have the importance and the meaning that Cassie and Or now has, because he represents the person that had to exist for the empire to be defeated, which is the talented person who can be engaged in something,

who can gain skills, but more than anything, is willing to do what they have to do. It's willing to sacrifice what they have to sacrifice, willing to go where they have to go, willing to be as, you know, really, at some points, militant, lethal, as villainous as they have to do to take down something that's worse than them. So, you know, to me,

as much as I've seen of Andor over the past X amount of years that it's been around, it was crystallized more in these three episodes than any other time. I think the thing that continues to amaze me the most about the show is its ability to surprise. Right? To your point, we know where all these characters are, and we know how this story goes for a majority of our characters. And after watching the first season, you have, you know, the Heisen Aldani,

you have the end of the Narcina 5 arc you have what happens on Farrix of the end and if the show were to just hit those highs we would still be like man what a great show if that was as high as the show got we'd be like man what a great time I feel like these three episodes took the show

to levels that I didn't I honestly didn't think I could I could feel I'm not gonna like to you I'm sitting there and I'm watching Cyril make icons contact with Cassian and I stand up and I start cheering. I'm like, I texted you guys like it was game seven, man, my

feet hooping and hollering. And there's still another hour of TV left, guys. You know what I mean? It's just the show does an explicable job of creating tension, of creating, creating problems for our characters that they have to like wiggle their way out of. And the fact that Cassian continues despite everything, despite losing Biggs, despite all of it continues to get up and like, all right, well, here's tomorrow. What do we got to do?

That man, went back to work. I'm like, he lost. Right back to work. He lost the most beautiful in the galaxy. He was like, all right. I still got a fucking clocking. I was, bro, I was sick to my stomach, God. Aren't you happy, though, that Biggs didn't get killed?

Because I know Bix wasn't around. I still don't know. She's still got three hours in Conlight. We still got three hours. We have three hours left. Oh, man. But at least, because I was. Because I was wondering, man, when is big's going to get?

I was about to say clapped. I don't want to say clapped. Don't say that. The future's, I'm going to get my bitch, man. Well, I was like, fuck the gas, you, bro. I was like, when is it going to, but knowing that this was a decision that she made almost because she's been exposed to a greater world. Right. It's interesting.

Steve, what you got? I'm, I'm grateful. I'm just so grateful that we get this. I feel like I'm also, like, in line with that force healer at the beginning because, like, I, don't get this that often. I don't get a clarity of purpose and vision from a show, let alone Star Wars, that is this pointed forward and this intentional and this like filled with purpose and poetry and beauty and absolute thrill that I can't feel anything but like this is the best that this property or storytelling in it has ever been. Ever?

Kind of. This is the best Star Wars ever, you guys think? This could be. This really feels like if it isn't, I don't know what, like, can't be elevated to. We talked about it. I don't know what. It stands toe to toe to me. Yeah, we talked about it yesterday.

We were talking about Tales of the Underworld and how, like, you know, a lot of this stuff is, we're so used to, like, the lightsabers and the Jedi and all this stuff. And it's kind of weird to see a Star Wars story without it. Because you see all of the things that, like, the grandiosity of the sky. and like these gods fighting each other with big laser swords and using superpowers. And then you see the people that they affect and like the things that they symbolize. And these are the people that those things symbolize. And it's a guy going to a security checkpoint at work that wasn't there a year ago. And the next day his planet is going to be mined for dust.

I think it's a harder curve to hit when you don't have the lights here because you don't have the Jedi, you don't have the Skywalker name. And that's what I think that's what makes Andor so impressive. It's like a dude from a movie that we saw one time. Yeah. Like, man, this is really cool. And now his backstory fleshed out is some of the most important or some of the most important and great storytelling,

not only in Star Wars, but just in, you know, the history of television. I mean, the reason why I would say outside probably of, like, empire, why I think Andor is going to go down. It's just the best thing that Star Wars has ever done is this is the rare property where basically I think a problem that Star Wars is, has is that we're going to fall in love with Darth Vader. We're going to fall in love with Maul. We're like, we're going to fall in love with these characters who have done

reprehensible things because they're so cool. And so much the story feels like they're almost trying to tell you, like, well, they're not that bad. And I'm like, well, Anakin was like a genocidal maniac. Like, he was that bad. But also, we have to sell a lot of toys. What Andor does, which I find so incredible, is like, take Cyril. When Cyril chokes Deidre, in that moment, I'm just like, wait, I don't think he cares about Gorman this much.

And he's a monster because he's like, finally, you're just like, oh, this is what I've been doing. So it's like, it's this weird balancing act where the show is just like, we're not going to make Cyril into a hero. He's always been a monster. We're going to show you that not only is he going to commit this violence against this woman, but like he, was so dumb that the wool could be pulled over his eyes. And then the Greek tragedy of it all is that at the end, when he finally gets the thing he wants, Cashion looks at him and is just like,

fucker you? And I'm just like, that's why I think like Andor it's a lot easier for me sometimes to take it more seriously than like the rise of Skywalker because it's like, oh, I guess what's his face is good now and they're going to kiss. And I'm just like, sometimes to me, I'm like, Star Wars

undermines the fact of how bad the empire is, how truly gross and all-encompassing something like fascism can be, and Andor is when you were saying like a clarity of purpose, to me it's always going down that, like,

no, Dedger's a monster, Cerell's a monster. These people aren't going to wake up one day and just... But also they're fell in... But they're not monsters, though. So, they're not. I mean, so it's interesting. when you when you plot all that out it's hard to make Vader not a monster because he's killed hundreds of thousands of people

yeah it's actually easy to make cyril not a monster because he's not he's not cyril's not a monster at all serial is the fact that he even reacts when he realizes that he's been duped is proof that he's not oh i disagree oh let's talk about it so So Cyril thinks that he is doing one thing. He thinks that he is doing something that's, if not noble, vital and useful, which is monitoring gore for outside agitators. He then realizes that that's not what he's doing, that what he's doing is positioning Gore to be genocided by the empire

so that they can extract resources from the planet. moment that he realizes that he freaks out. He freaks out because he's not a monster. He freaks out because that is something that a monster would do. A monster would be like, oh, well, there are 800,000 people living on this planet. We need what they have out of the earth. So let's just kill them all and take it. Like that, like, that's what we have to do. What he realizes what he's party to, he's literally in the middle of it and he's looking around and he's watching people get shot with Blasterbolts and all of this stuff and he goes,

he says, he goes, I was doing something here for outside agitated. When he's choking her, he goes, they need, she goes, they need what's in the ground here. That's what freaks him out. He is a villain, but not a monster. So this is where I push back. I think it is very purposeful

that I got, that read as well, but then I was just like, wait, so then why's the first thing that you do to choke out this woman that you love? Similarly, when he runs, I'm like, oh, Cyril's running, is he, is this his heroic turn? Is he trying to save people? But at no point, he's like watching all this happen. And instead of helping out anyone, the minute he turns and he sees Cassian, all that goes out of his mind and he's back to this child that's like, my little revenge missing, mission trying to get this one guy is more important than

all of these people, peaceful protesters being killed. I think it's a, serial. Well, he's not a hero. Yeah. I'm not, he's just a guy. Yeah, but what I'm saying is that when he goes after Cassian, I think that is the show and the creators being like,

look at how petty all of this was. He's an ignorant. Well, yeah, part of that is because he's sitting there, and I think at this point, there's nothing we can really do. I mean, again, he's just standing there. watching everything that he wrought, everything that he helped bring on. He's like, he kind of feels helpless. It kind of feels like, I sold.

Yeah, I sold. But he had two chances in his three batches in terms of like... You're moving to goalpost. Like, I'm not saying he's not a hero. And that to me is the old... When you talk about how Star Wars positions itself in the first iteration of it, it was binary. It was a monster or hero. and you have to choose a side,

which is what Andor doesn't make you do. Andor is like, there are people that are in circumstances, right? So, Han Solo, in a New Hope, at first is a scoundrel, right? He chooses hero.

Vader is a villain. Then he chooses hero, right? What is Vader if he decides, if he just, Luke throws down his lightsaber, doesn't want to fight? What if Vader does that? What if Vader just leaves, right? but that's not what he does

he saves his son's life he saves he kills the emperor I guess and he and he and he and he saves the entire galaxy he chooses heroism Cyril at the point

when he chokes Dejre he chokes her because he is overtaken by emotion by what she's done to him there's a betrayal there in terms of their relationship there's a betrayal

that she's made him into a monster and he attacks her he does, he just does what a human thing would do. Not a hero would do. I mean, if he, the most unrealistic thing for him to do would then be to start saving people, because that's not in him.

He's just a person that has been set on a path and now doesn't know what to do. And when he sees- But has he, and that's my question, though, because I think there is a greatness to it where it's like, he is stopped by two of the Gorman front before this happens. He stopped by Enza,

then what's her father's name? I forget it. But like the, like the figure where they're both, they both at this point know that he was a mole. And they're both kind of just like, do you not see what's happening? And I do think that it is, it is this philosophical question of was Cyril sent on this path or was he willfully ignorant? Because he didn't, like he didn't want to see. Like she said, you didn't seem to mind the promotions. Yeah. Like he didn't, he didn't want to see all of this because he was getting what he wanted, which was rising through the rank. of the empire becoming this important person where I'm just kind of just like

oh you would have had to be the biggest idiot in the galaxy he's in love but it's also the banality of evil see this is so interesting so there's no evil in it like he's he's in it there's no evil I mean the overracking things of his

complacency with everything that the empire has done since he got to Gorman nobody else could have run him like she did of course yeah right And because it, so all of this, he is, in this particular situation, he is like aggressively and brutally human. Like, he's in love. So all of the stuff that he, he's found connection to somebody that he, the whole point of showing Cyril with his mother was showing that Cyril did not have connection to his mother. That there was no one that protected Cyril, that there was no one that looked out for Cyril.

Wait, but you think he loved, do you think that? is interesting. I took it as Cyril loved the idea of the empire and his and him ascending through those ranks. And his importance. And his importance to this more than he loved Dedra. And Dedra

similarly, like when push came to shove, she chose her job, she chose duty, she chose rising through the ranks over Cyril and the tragedy of them is them both realizing in the same moment that oh, we didn't actually

choose choose each other when push came to shove. We chose what we were sold. Like that's how I read it. Well, he didn't get a chance to choose anything. Yeah. Well, kind of did. He did all those things for her. Yeah, but again, he didn't have to be a mole.

But guys, guys, guys, we know he was getting set up. We know he was getting slotted out. Like, we know that for a fact. He thought he was just reporting intelligence on the insurgents. Turns out no. He chose to do that. Yes. but not to murder a whole planet.

Right. So he didn't, this is so interesting. He actually, so the reason, he actually is upset because he didn't have a choice. Like,

he chose to do things, but for, how can I put this? He chose to do things for reasons that were false. Yeah, but like I choose to come into work today to make podcasts.

I don't choose what my boss's boss does with the money that I make from that labor. What if, what if it turns out that you're making, podcasts for some reason, right? So that those podcasts can be taken and indoctrinate young children to work in minds. Then I would feel a type of way about that.

Right. Exactly. And then have a choice about it. Exactly. And then who would you be upset at? You would be upset at the people that you trusted that put you in that position. You'd be upset at the people who know what's happening, who lied to you to get you to do something that you didn't know that you were doing.

And the deeper the relationship that you had with those people, the matter you would be. So if that person was Alea or me, you'd be pretty pissed off. Right. But if it was your mom or if it was your girl who knew that they were leveraging the relationship that they had with you to get you to do something terrible. That you wouldn't do. Now you are fucking destroyed, right? And it's interesting when we have this conversation about Cyril and Deirdre. because this is what the show is about.

Oh, yeah. No, it's exactly the type of talk we should be having. On the other side of things, like Luton is trying to tell people, don't do that. Like, Luton is trying, on the other side of things, Luton is trying to tell them

your connections to all of these people. He actually tells, Cassie, he goes, he says, I'm a soldier. And he goes, I'm asking you to think like a leader. Because if you think like a leader, you know some people have to be, used. Some people have to be sacrificed. That's why he tells Sinta that, or when they have the

conversation, Val and Sinta, he's like, we're better apart. Right. Yeah. So some people have to be used. Some people have to be sacrificed. He told, like, he says, what if Gorman burns? He says that it will burn really brightly, right? And so, so what we, so for Cyril, Cyril's like, I'm looking around and I thought I was actually helping the empire. He might have even thought that he was helping the Gore because he might have thought that they were outside agitated. that were going to come to gore and put those people in a position that they didn't really want to be in. And that's why he gets slapped. Because they were being whipped up.

Yeah. And so he might have thought he was helping everyone, but he wasn't. But once again, it goes back to what Deidre told him. Like, you didn't mind as long as you were getting paid, as long as the promotions were there. And when I say monster, I think, like, Luton has had to become a monster. I don't mean, same thing with Cashin. When I say this, it's like, there's a level of, it's so funny. But Luther knows, one thing, Luther knows everything.

Cyril knows nothing. But here's the thing. I think what makes Cassian and Cyril such interesting foils is that Cassian at every single point is looking for more information. He is looking for the truth or his truth. His mantra of these three episodes where I make my own decisions. I make my own decisions. And I think that that was a very clear delineation of the thing that, the tragedy of

Cyril is that he, everything that somebody tells him, he believes at face value. He believes the propaganda. He believes in the empire. And I think what we're kind of litigating is that what makes Cassie in this figure that that force user is just like, you're so important is a lot of things. But it is that quality of being like, at every given point, I'm going to search for my truth and what it does mean to be free. And Cyril is like, I mean, if I'm taking care of, then I'm-

If I'm taking care of, like, what is, because here's the thing. Like I said, the Gorman Front people are confronting him. The leader is literally like, he's looking at this man and he's going insane because he's like, how can you live like this? Like, it's in front of you right now and you're still, like, you still have the wool over your eyes and we're five minutes away from being destroyed. I agree. Cassian's the hero of the story.

And Cyril's a dude, but he's not a monster. Like Cassian is the hero of the story. So the hero of the story is going to be like, why am I doing this? Like if Cassian was in love with Luton, if Luton was Bix, right? And Bix was running everything. Maybe Cassian does a couple of things

out of emotion that change our perception of the character. But Cassian got into this situation. Cassian is asking questions from day one. Like when he's, even when he's, when they have to pilot the thing, and he goes, no, I'm flying it.

I'm flying it. Like Cassian is from day, that's what makes him, a hero. I think what the hero is in the eye, but that's in the eye of the beholder because even when he's saving, when he's saving Mon and she's looking, she's like, this guy just killed a man so easily and didn't blink. I feel like it's the show reinforcing to us that it's just like, yes, Cassine is doing heroic things, but everything that he's had to do has come at a cost. And like, he's killing people sometimes where people like, was that the only way to do this? And Mon is even getting baptized

to, oh, no, we're in a war. The line is very... I think that's... But that's the show, right? I mean, he said, hey, what's your name? Club is, boom, shoots him. Tough, right? But we're...

Deidre... Deadre? Watch it now. Wait, can we say really quick, and I'll let you continue? I think it's racist for people to correct black people when we misread out to name. It's got a low. Okay, I don't know about that.

Y'all got a chill. Sorry, the book store is called... The book store is called what again? What? Barnes and, wait. Barnes and Noble. Barnes and Noble. We're arguing about like who's a monster, which is a monster.

The end of the day, Lutthin and Dedra and the empire have the same goal, which is to irradiate Gorman, right? They want the cow kite. Luthans can use this to galvanize people. He wants the cause. Yeah. He wants the cause. End of the day, the planet blows up, explodes. Both of them can use that to their advantage, right?

where you mentioned at the beginning versus Good versus Ebo at the beginning of Star Wars it was very binary it was one or two things now you got two people both want the same thing but for different reasons

and so we are left to look at ourselves and ask who's doing it the right way we're positioned to go like Luthen Kassin they're freeing us from the oppression of the empire those are our gods

but the same time DEDRA and the empire are like also like hey we want to blow this planet up too for whichever reason. At the day, we're left to go, who's doing, who's like really doing this. There are no monsters. There's just people doing stuff.

Like, Palpatine, the Sor Wars that we were given at first, like, Palpatine is so fueled with dark side energy, right? That he, like, without anyone else's help, he becomes aware of his force power and he kills his whole family. Like, he kills his whole family. He kills his, like, Palpatine is born evil. He kills somebody on a speeder when he is still in, as a, like, in, like a young kid, his dad fucking covers it up. He then, you know, meets Hugo Damasque or Dark Plague is, what we would call him.

And he's just evil. He's just pure evil. Pure power, pure passion, pure evil. You can't talk anything to him. that is he's the the epitome of evil in emperor palpatine and the dark side of the force is this all-encompassing thing um that seduces you in and just feeds you passion feeds you evil feed you all of that stuff right you're bad you're bad until you are redeemed you have to be redeemed in this there are people who do bad stuff but i could argue that the mission of that

shooting that guy as a heroic act if you think that freedom and democracy is worth fighting for. Because they are on their path and that guy's trying to stop, them from getting my mouth off the planet, boom, you're gone, right? That's what the show is asking you to litigate.

The show is asking you to litigate what people will do. Not what's good and evil and who are monsters or who are not monsters in my opinion. Because everybody is doing monstrous shit. Everybody is doing shit. The question is, why? right and why are they doing it some people are doing it for love some people are doing it for comfort some people are doing it out of a sense of uh i guess a greater sense of what freedom and justice mean right but even luthin at this point

luthin is so deep in the fight he's so deep in the fight that it's actually more about the fight than it is about freedom right now for him if you ask me It's actually more about the fight because he's given so much. You hear these characters say over and over and over again, I will only do this if I know that we're going to win. They say win. They don't say freedom. They don't say, I'm doing this for the freedom. They say win.

They are so deep into the fight that the only thing they can think about is what they've sacrificed to win. Now, they want to win because they want people to be free, because they want Papalteen gone. but it is the eighth or ninth round. And when you're in that ring at that point, you forget about the belt, you forget about the glory, you forget about anything. The only thing that's in there now

is the goddess in front of you. And so now, and that's what I love about the show, and why I'm so passionate about this particular point, because when Cyril saw Andor, that was clarity. Because he didn't know where he was supposed to be, but he knows he's supposed to kill that guy.

He doesn't know what's happening. Like, everything is being blown up around him. He doesn't really know why he was completely lied to about why all of this is happening. But when he sees that guy, he knows, oh, my God, that's familiar. I know I got to, I know I don't like him. Time to lock in. Time to lock in. I know, like, now I have some agency back.

And then he still can't even do it. And what does he get for his hesitation? Death. He gets death. And also he gets a moment of just completely. complete. It was all along. I'm not going to sit here and say I feel bad for Cyril because I feel terrible for him.

I don't feel terrible. But when I mean, first of all, that whole scene crazy. Again, I'm standing up. That was one of the best fights I've ever seen. I'm like, you in the office, I just be shadow boxed. I'm like, oh, I left for a jab, uppercut. He was going crazy. And here was the back with that little like pillar thing.

Dude, just an incredible fight scene. And then Cyril's got him dead to rights. Casim, look him in the eye, like, who are you? And then to get blamered. your last moment of life knowing that everything you've been fine for everything that you've been like you sacrifice so much for this moment to get in on this one guy who set you on this path to dedger the ISB the whole thing and for him to look you in the eye and be like i have no idea who you are buddy don't think about you at all bruh tough that was tough man i mean that's what

I think when I watched this show and why I loved it so much, there's a Shakespearean quality because there's a moment. It was one of my favorite moments of the episode where Cyril and Cassian walked by each other. Yeah. And it's kind of like this fateful moment where it's just like if they just kept walking, if neither of them turn around, if they just keep like both of them are alive, none of this happens. But I think what this show is constantly kind of litigating is that like the reason

I think we come to Star Wars is that it is so binary. It is so light side, dark side, good and evil. But I think that middle is that thing of just like when when Cyril's above Cassian and you see his face, it's a great piece of acting of just like, was this what all of this was for. Was this what my life was for? The first thing that we see in the first season of Andor is just like, that's the guy I need to get. The reason he's there in that moment is because of Cassian. And it's like, is it like, and I think that it's also, it's not just, and or it's not just litigating kind of like the light side for the verse the dark side.

It's litigating like fate. Like, was Cyril always supposed to be here? Was he always on a one-way train to his life being trying to take down this dude and basically that guy not even remembering him? Same thing with Caskey. Is his whole life leading him to basically sacrifice himself for, the galaxy, or is he just the type of person because of the way he lives, because of he's been at all of these historical events, and he's still stayed human? Is that what allows him to save

the galaxy? And I don't think that the show is trying to tell us it's either or. I think it's actually playing with the foundations of Star Wars where it's just like, hey, maybe fate exists. Maybe these heroes are just heroes. I just, that's. That's what I love. I like that. It's not coming down on either side. Yeah, man. So the force. Entered into the show very delicately. Yes. Delicate force stuff. No one moving anything around, but just a sense that there is some order to the galaxy or something more.

maybe the sense that there's maybe even something that Cassian understands or that understands Cassian how did those two worlds mesh Is your girl ever taking you to a palm reader? I don't deal with devil worshipers So that's probably what Cassian's attitude was You know what I mean?

So it's like Yeah my people don't really fuck away That's not really wrong now Yeah A devil worship So what if I told you that there was like an all-seeing all-knowing force that, you know, can have history of my back, because if my back starts feeling

better up, I'm like, okay. It's kind of like how we, you know, if Bix was like, you'll take you to the guy, he got the Ouija board out. Sure. Cash is like, nah. Maybe you're an Ares and I'm a Gemini. That's why you, I got to choose the revolution over you. So we got to end this.

No. I'm not there. But I wonder, though, she's healed other people, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then at some point, you got to try it, right? I mean, well, to answer your first question, though, I think what was so beautiful about that scene? And Cassian's arc in this three episodes is that he's struggling with PTSD in his own way. He's struggling with, I feel like Tony Gilroy, Dan Gilroy, all the writers, especially in this trio of episodes, we're like, how do we wrap our arms around the fact that Cassian has now been?

been a part of some of the most historical moments of this war, he is basically like for scum. He's like at every point, I think even Luthan kind is just like, you've been here, you've been here, you've been here. Why do you think that, like, why do you think that sure the guy? And when they bring force into the story, I think it's done in such a great, delicate way, because what they're actually saying is, is Cassian is looking for a higher purpose and a higher calling and a reason for all this. He's seen thousands upon thousands

of people die. He's had to sacrifice so much. And at that point, like, yeah, it's his back. But like the metaphor of that moment is, is that can I surrender to this higher calling and realize that not only am I important

to the galaxy, but like, I might not be able to even understand or completely grasp my role within it. Like, everybody in the story is starting to realize casting your special. and Bix is the one to be like, oh, you're so special. And the closer I am to you, the more cloudy your judgment can be.

And I love the way Diego Luna played that where he's like, he's scared because you start realize he's like, oh, he's, he knows, even if he's not going to call it the force, he's starting to believe that there is this higher calling. And he does that very like, I don't want it. Like he pushes it to the side. I don't want it. Does. I thought.

Oh, go ahead, Jum. to cause him a messenger, right? And we ultimately know, like, his fate is to deliver the Death Star plans to give the rebels, like, a fighting chance to destroy the Death Star. And at first, you know, you don't think about it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, she's giving them. And then you're like, oh, like, it kind of comes around when Bix is saying goodbye. And you're like, I flashed back in my head to what she meant, what she told him. in beginning episode seven.

I'm like, like, it's really all coming together, man. Like, we're really, like, going to the end of this journey and to know that that force healer saw what we, like, where we're going to see at the end of Rogue One

and have this guy deliver the plans, but also, you know, sacrifice his life for the empire. It's just really sombering and, like, man, damn. It's also very poetic because you couldn't take that literally, but you also take it as, like,

what is Cassian's ultimate, message to the empire and it's kind of the will of the many. Well, message to the empire, but also message to the rebels. Yeah. Right? Like who we want to be, to your guys' point, like, he's becoming important. He's becoming somebody that people are looking up to. Who are, when people look up to you, what do you tell them?

What do you, people ask you for advice? And people are like, hey, Cassie and bro, how do I do this? How do I become, how do I get where you are? how do you deliver that message to keep people going to empower people it's not something that like at least in this castion that we know at this moment can do but we know and or he can rally people he can be a force that people get behind and so watching that growth i think over the next episode is going to be great but just in general over for when we found him in episode one season one episode nine or season two it's just incredible Mothman Good for her, man Good for my mouthful Great shit

Dumb and shit a lot Like stop Like I love that episode The episode's perfect But when they was trying to do The shit Where they were just like Yeah I'm delivering the speech

I'm like get your way I'm right I was like no Who? Who was the what are you talking about? When like the whole plan Where it's just like Bail is like

Yo you're gonna make your speech And then you gotta escape I'm like I know how those pods be working on the Senate floor, we might have to make this speech remote. Like, we can make this a Zoom call, bro. Like, Lao from, uh,

from Dark Night. You gotta, you gotta float out. I was just like, how are they gonna save it from this? It does like, you gotta float out to the center and then come back. And then the thing closes behind us. Like, damn, man, you fucked. You know, it's like, by a time a new hope comes around,

palpitating has dissolved the Senate. Yes. Yes. Right, he's like, no more. I'm not putting in. I am the Senate. But Tom, he's dissolved the Senate. All the vestiges of the old Republic are gone.

But not yet. They still playing. You got to hold the force up a little bit. They still playing. And if they are going to play, then they're susceptible to being played with. And really, I feel like Ma'amathema's speech is what ended the Senate.

because he's like, hey, man, look, I can't have you. Hey, what did Voldemort used to say on making the band? He would be like, I'm shutting the studio down. Oh, right. You know what I mean? I'm shutting the hole. I'm shutting the studio down. That was the studio shutdown moment.

I didn't think that it would be possible for a mom-mouth speech to live up to the lore that is surrounded with. I did not think that the Gorman Massacre would be able to live up to, but they both did. I mean, but that's sweeping moment. But that technically wasn't the, the Mon speech, because she gives the actual speech that the galaxy rallies behind in rebels, doesn't she? Correct. Isn't this like the pre-speople? But this is kind of like the fuck Senate. So there's a lot.

It's really interesting because, and so I did this. Episode 9 ends with Cassian getting Mon out of there. And we hear over here that they've got Gold Squadron is ready to save Mon. Yeah. Right. That follows like literally, as soon as episode nine ends, you can go watch Rebels Season 3, episode 18, called Secret Cardo. And you can find how that ends, right? So the interesting, like, the overall thing is the ghost is sent to on a secret refuel mission.

Like, ooh, what are we doing? And it turns out that they are supposed to help get Mon Mothma to deliver her big message to rally the Rebel. and you know chaos ensues whatever and it turns out that where she delivers that big speech on rebels it's on the spect it's on the spectra or yeah it's on the sorry it's on the ghost it's on the ghost and with uh ezra my wife my love harrison dula zeb chopper and the aid uh his name is the same aid for about the same aide who like made the debut in rebels by the way like he was there from the jump erskins samash uh and he they give the speech and all the ships come and it's a really like important moment that's one two the speech on the senate floor that we see

and the speech that they're watching at the beginning with zeb and ezra it's a little different right the one where we watch in and or she mentions emperor palpatine at the end she alludes to the whole big scary thing but it's not until the end where she's he's like Emperor Palpatine, everybody goes, ah! In rebels, I don't know if this is probably like a little snippet, but it says, I name the emperor himself for ordering the brutal attacks on the people of Gorman.

Their peaceful world is one of countless systems, helpless against his oppressive rule. This massacre is proof that our self-apported emperor is little more than a lying executioner, imposing his tyranny under the pretense of security. We cannot allow this evil to stand. Now, it's not one for one, for like, but I can see the vision.

I mean, but even what I think this show does really well is that even at that moment Cassian can't be the hero. No. Because he's the one who had to kill a bunch of people to get her out of there. He's a spy.

And they're already like, we need to change the story. They want they want Mon to basically they want to spin the story so it's a little bit more heroic. And everybody, and I was just like, oh, that is such a smart choice to even say that like, oh, the rebel, the rebel alliance is even getting more sophisticated in how they position their leaders. So it's not just like, oh, she just showed up

on Gavin. No, we need to make a big deal of someone finally coming to really unite all of these and this is why, I mean, we talked about us like episodes before where we're like, yo, this is getting to the point where there's a whole bunch of stuff going on. Right. Between rebels and Andor and like bad batch, like all these shows, where does it all come to And like, this was the moment where it all, like, finally, like, wove in the one timeline. And I think it's really funny that, like, next week we're going to get, like, the, like, the actual Rebel Alliance working together. And if you're not locked in on Rebels, you just like, you wouldn't know that, like, she gave, like, the definitive speech to unite all the Rebel sex under one umbrella under one roof. Yeah.

In Rebels. Like, I mean, if you're listening to this, you haven't watched at least that episode of Rebels, I would say watch. sole show, but go after episode nine, watch season three, episode 18, and then watch the next episode, because I got my guy AP5, shout out, and then watch the next episode, because

it's twin sons. And if you know, you know. Which is why the, she was so important, it was like, if we lose her, the whole thing falls apart. Yes. Which is, it feels very interesting because Mon Mothamah, almost this entire show up until this very moment, has been like

slowly trying to be the most diplomatic and like clawing into like what kind of like power can I still grab in this Senate that's essentially like a stooge kangaroo court just for the empire. She still partly believes it. And she still kind of does. And even it's shown when she's escorted out under like somebody else's gun that kills several people on the way out to be thinking that like, oh, this is what I was positioning myself for this whole time. She didn't even fully grasp it until she left that Senate floor what she was actually doing. She was never going to see the Senate again. She was never going to be a formalized, like, recognized senator of the empire.

It is going to be something different when she comes back. Not just that. Chandrailla, the pageantry, the clean. All that's gone. It's all gone. She doesn't know what they do. Yeah. She knows that she knows from a, from the standpoint of she's aware that they have to fight

using asymmetrical warfare and guerrilla tactics. and really insurgency to affect the empire, but she doesn't know what they do. And she didn't think. And then she's sitting right there. She sees it. She sees it in the fact that Luton is running her aid. He can't leave any stone unturned.

It can't be any loose ends for him. She sees it there. She's very affected by that. Dude, that's whole scene, her and Luton, was, again, we're watching just high. level television because she is standing there. She's like, oh, this dude again. It's like, actually, it was bad. It's only getting worse. Yeah, right. Not only do I got a guy in your circle, but the people we're supposed to run with tomorrow ain't really, you're not up to stuff. You got

to run with my guys. She's like, yo, I'm already at the top of my, like, I'm already, I'm already here with you. I can't, I can't keep doing this. I got to, I got to deliver this thing tomorrow. Like, how much more do you want from me? It begins in the earlier days of her arc and the show with like kind of the arrogance to think that this wouldn't come to her doorstep, that this wouldn't be the thing that she can kind of just like feign in and like funneled these back channels of revolution and that it would just be delivered to her in any other way. But instead she has to actually be violently brought into the fold at the very moment of her most defiant. This is her being activated.

The walls are coming. The walls are closing in on her. Does she actually know though that like she's like, damn, I can't trust Luton. but at a certain point, like, I'm like, yo, you do realize Cassing doesn't kill all these people. He has to kill you. Like, that is like, it is almost this moment

where I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, either you get out of here alive or if you're captured, casting got a day. They will kill you. Both of you. Like, you are two, like, I'm like, Luther is the only one.

Like, Lutton understands. And he says that. The moment you, you get captured, the whole Rebel Alliance, like, we're four, fuck. There's no coming back for this. Yeah, I mean, look, it's, she sees all

she sees everything happens she even sees everyone is on go except for my mouth right yeah everyone is on go the rebel spot boom like she's just like what the fuck is going on everyone is on go except this is her initiation

yes into the desperation of what the rebel alliance has to be and also they have to have somebody like her they have to have somebody that understands the persuasion of thought they have to have somebody who understands how to be a leader and rally people around. And they also have to have someone that people can go to and say,

you know, after this is over, that person can be someone that we can organize a government around. Because when you have all of these scruffy rebels, this is true with a lot of rebellions. Look, we can point to rebellions over time in different places, particularly in rebellions that are led by insurgency

if you, I'm not going to you know, kind of want to get into politics and people get all mad, oh, you're talking about, Vivil and whatever. And so, and so but particularly it's, it's when these rebels become the leaders yeah, doesn't always go well. The real world

comps are numerous. It doesn't, it doesn't always go. I mean, there's a reason why Luton is just like, he looks at casting, he's like, hey, they're going to string both of us up. And think about somebody like Saw Guerrera. Yeah. Revolution is not for the same. To your point, do you think even Luton realizes where it's like maybe in the real world,

a lot of these rebel leaders do not realize that they would not make good politicians, but do you think even that's why he's like, yeah, you know what? I'm not going to Yavre. And Gashin is just like, no, you can stop. He's like, bruh, I'm not going to make it. Everybody has different jobs. Yeah. And but, you know, obviously we know that Bill or.

Organa never makes it to Yavin, right? Correct. It is the last time that he and Motham are going to see each other right here. Oh, Rogue one. Rogue one. They do see each other in Rogue One. They do see each other in Rogue One. But one of the last times that they're going to see each other.

So we know that he never quite gets to the point in with the, because Alderan is destroyed. He's on it and he dies. Tough. Tough for him. Tough. Tough for him. Good looking guy that, that bill. Organa. Whoever they get to play him.

Benjamin Brett. Ben Brad. Ben Brad. I'm saying whoever they have. Jimmy Smith. Jimmy Smith. He's always a smooth motherfucker. But here's the thing. He's a little too smooth because when Ma looks at him, he's like, yo, can you trust the people? She's like, yeah, you can trust. You can trust you. I was like, all right, man.

All right. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He's like, he's like, she goes, she goes, can you trust him? He's like, yeah, trust him. It's like, do you know them? He goes, no. It's like, no, I don't know. And at least, Lutton is like, I'll put my best guy. Yeah.

This is my guy. I pulled my guy out of the slums, man. That's where I'm a little bit, like, I get, I got to remember Andor is a TV show. But God damn, Luton, any, like, Cassie run around like fucking Michael Jordan. Like, it's just like any single time they need a bucket. Any single time they need anything. Luton is like. Yeah.

Hey, yo, I'm gonna get your best friend. He's gonna come to Yavin. Like, woman didn't even wait for Bix and Cassian, you know, have a little cute, like, little thing. He's just like, hey, yo, Luton needs you, bro. Like, come on, I don't get a fuck about your back. It's tough, man. We're gonna talk about Wormon being a milk merchant.

Go for it. That's twice. You had the girl on Mina Rau, right? You had to leave her. You know what it was. Then we'd come back. Is he black? Wumont?

I would think so. He's darker than everybody else. I don't know. I mean, you was out of him. You're saying, hey, stop, if I was black, why can't my nigger, Willemble be black? I never said that. I never said she was black. What?

Wulner. I didn't say, run a thing. Run, no, no. I didn't say she was black. I said that she had or have black Filipino grandfather or whatever. I didn't say she was black. Because that's actually the opposite of what I said. Because I look at, I look at all of these people about, I look at all these people about whether

whether or not they black or not. And like, you know, certain. people's kids and how they look. Jesus. And whether or not they black. I'm not sure. Are they, what happens?

They're not black. Now you're asking the questions. I'm asking the questions. But is he black, though? Is he black? I would, I would think so. I think I'm going to give Wilma on some love.

What's the actor's name in real life? Let's see, let's see if he didn't play. Let's see if he didn't been in Top Boy. Top Boy. He's been in Top Boy. He's been in Top Boy. He's crazy.

Good show. Jesus. He's played by Salmon Pot. Or no, that's his. actual name in the Bush show. I'm sorry. His dad's name in the show. Salman Pod?

No, no, no, no. That's his dad's name. His name is William Park. His father is Salman Park in the actual... I think we can agree that this is when the show is at its best. Yeah, when we're arguing about, like... I want to know if he's black. Because I don't know...

Because here's the thing, though. Do you get called... Muhammad Ben Amor? Muhammad Ben Amor. That sounds pretty black. Oh, uh, uh, Mohamed. been a more

yeah okay they even got no Wikipedia page dang damn I got a soccer player okay

Jesus Christ okay so maybe he is a milk merchant because it seems like whatever it is it's a little milky going on

right there but hey galaxies yeah how long had he known her well it's only been a year

right was it the whole yeah no remember because he was on me and rob he had his little thing over there

Then he spent that little internship with Saab. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he's on Gore. And then he was on Gorman. Yeah. So less than a year? Maybe like a year change. Yeah.

If it's a whole year, I get it. Sure. Because it was unclear how long they know. A whole year? Yeah. A whole year. You can get attached to somebody in a year. You can get attached to somebody in a year.

You can get attached to somebody in a year. People meet and then eight months later they married. How many of them last? I would have been like Cassie and I'm like, hey, yo, we take. You, me, a year. So you know somebody a year? You can't get attached. You can't fall in love with someone in a year?

If I'm on Gorman? What you mean? Wait, sir, you're saying you dated a girl for a year and you're like, what are we? Is that what you're talking about? Oh, I definitely. Wait, minute. So, but I'm talking about, like, in a real way, though. Oh, wait, wait.

So, like, really, really, like. Yeah, they was together. And I run in and you on the radio? And they're like, I'm by, hey, yo, come on. Come on. Get on the ship. O'lea. What do you feel like is?

the right amount of time to form an attachment to someone. What? That's a great answer. Great answer. What's the right amount of, we're asking Alleya? This is going to be a new segment we do called Ask Alaya. Allaya, what do you feel like the right amount of time to form an attachment to somebody? I think it's a case-by-case basis.

Okay, but let's, but let's, let's, let's try the podcast. And let's see, let's think, in this situation, you're going to risk your life to go back and save them, right? Yeah. What would be an amount of time that you would think that that attachment will afford? Honestly, I can't imagine doing that, so I don't have an answer. No, no, here's the thing. If we're stuck in a war, if we're stuck in a war, a year is damn near, like, we've been married for 20 years.

A hundred years, yeah. So I get it. Well, you got to think about, like, guys, but think about it. Every day could be your last day. But think about it in a non-romantic sense, or maybe a romantic sense, or maybe a Manthous. Think about guys who make buddies in the army. Because they were going through this situation together, they were

I agree. And they become like, yeah, super. So even, and I still was looking at him a little crazy. Like, I'm just like, alright, come on. Too much? I mean, he needs a girlfriend in the revolution. The next time he sees Cass, it's like. Got the leg on that stuff. It's good to see your bro. She was

straight, by the way. Maybe he gave up his leg for her. She doesn't crying enough for me. I was like, she looked, she just Like, hey, yeah, what's going on? I'll tell you what, you know why, though? Losing the Lime in Star Wars, not a big deal. Yeah, yeah, you really could get a robot arm.

They come back, they come back with a robot arm. They hook you up. They lose, I wonder if they have robot dicks, you know, if you lose your shit. You know, actually, I think you need pretty good insurance to get a robot arm. But Vader don't got a robot dick, though. Who? Vader got a robot dick. Wait, he doesn't?

No, that's why he's so angry. Wait, why not? Emperor was thinking like that? Well, the Emperor actually, we've talked about this before. The Emperor actually, fucked over Vader in his suit. Yeah. Did all kinds of crazy shit to the suit to make Vader feel pain because he was mad.

And it makes him more powerful. Yeah. I mean, if we go back to episode eight now, one thing I will say that this show does so amazingly is I probably brought this up on the first season. I think because we're introduced to like the stormtroopers and the blasters, motherfuckers is getting shot really don't mean anything of Star Wars. When people were getting shot. Oh, my God.

I was like, what the fuck he's... Like, it... Just when Cyril gets shot in the head, when the Gorman front, when they start losing each other, I mean, that is hearing them. That entire sequence, like, from beginning to him, like when they start going to the plaza and they're yelling about free Gorman,

and then they start singing the National Anthem. And my first thought, because I'm a soccer fan, is like, man, that'd be great if they had a World Cup. You can hear that. I was thinking late Miss. I wonder what the Alderan... I wonder what the Alderan National Anthem is. But they're, like,

they've come together, there's a unity, and then Deirdre makes the call, hey, light them up. And you see, like, the sniper. And he doesn't aim with the Gorman's. He aims at the empire. And here's the thing. They kept being like, everybody kept telling them, hey, yo, I don't know where you got these Imperial soldiers.

They look like kidding. Fucking jokers, these kids. And everybody was just like, do you fucking chop. Shut the fuck up. And I was just like, oh, they're setting up the little home. Exactly. Exactly. I knew to play already.

It's on purpose. You said these little inexperienced guys, they get shot, and they just start firing, and it's like, ah. Not to bring the real world into it, but I was just like, don't tell me you going to bring in these GED. The fucking cadets who never had a gun in their hand and put them up against the people. I was like, yeah, man. The blaster bolts in Andor are aggressive.

Aggressive. They sound, I'm like, what is in. Rogue one, two is like, the Star Wars blasher bolts are almost cute. Well, because the guy, I say, we're not worried about that. But the Blaster Bowls in this motherfucker are, they come in for motherfucking. I'm actually, you want to know which I will say in the Force Awakens when Kyle Lorenz steps off and like the blast. I was just like, oh, why can't they always be, why can't it always kind of be like this? And I'm cool.

You mean why can't the Jedi stop the Blaster Boats? No, but like the blaster boat like. Oh, it looks like, yeah. It like it has that feeling of just like, oh, this is heavy. This is like a bullet. It could kill, like. Can we talk about that for a second? So, you know, this is one of my biggest issues with the sequel trilogy, which should be decanonized.

So he does that, right? Yeah, yeah. And you think this is a motherfucker right here. Yeah. This nigger is the nigger of niggas. Right? He about to be a motherfucking crazy. His motherfucker stopping black.

I ain't never seen no shit like that before. Yeah. He stopped the blast a bolt, you know what I'm saying? I mean, in legends, they're doing all kinds of crazy shit. Yeah. Rip a planet in half or whatever. He doesn't rip a plane and a half, but some of Luke's feats in legends are ridiculous. Yeah, it's crazy.

Too bad it's not canon. Luke, like, whatever, fuck you. Luke gets to a point, Luke gets to a point in legends where he's just doing all kinds of stuff. He's like, he's merged. He's merged with the force. And, like, the one time they're having a food fight in the new Jedi food hall, and Luke walks in and stops all of the food at the same. time just to show them. Wait, what?

I promise you. You're fucking... I promise you, bro. There's a food fight that happens. There's a food fight that's happening in the mess hall of either his new Jedi Academy or either in something that has to do with the New Republic Army or something. And Luke walks in and just stops all the food at the same time. Everybody's food is just stopped just for him to say, shut up and stop fucking clowning around.

He does all kinds of crazy shit. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna make a video about Luke's, uh, top 10 feats from legends. This is a lore video I actually wouldn't love to watch. Like, I would love to because here's things. That's, that's around that time, like, even when I was reading comics, you know, like in the 90s, 2000s, they started giving Superman all these fucking crazy fucking. There's like, he's lightning man. He's red man.

He could do this. I'm like, bro. Like, nah. Fuck, fuck on. Luke's just doing all kinds of crazy shit. It's like he ripping. But. They don't really do that in the movies that much.

Does Luke, is Luke getting busy in Legends? Does he have a woman on his husband? Yeah, RJ, right? Marjie. Marjade. Marjade, Marjade, Marjade, yeah. She was bad at first. She was the assassin, an assassin for the emperor.

And then they met and she sent, this was during the whole time. This was during the first throng one. This was maybe the very first one where she gets sent at Luke and then they're together. and then after a while, Luke starts kind of running the game on her a little bit. Yeah. What is it with the- I can't remember the name of the pirate guy

that she might have been working for at this time because she was working for the Empire at first. Look up, look up the name of the-can remember the game. Look up the name of the pirate guy that Mar-Jade was working for. Mar-Jid. Empire boss? Skywalkers, man, they love the scoundrels.

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. Why are they always going after assassins, scound girls? Well, because you know, they're good people, you know what I'm saying? They like, you know what I'm saying? They like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Talen

Card? Tadling Card, yeah. She was working for some like the pirate smuggler, yeah. The smuggler pirate guy. And that's who she, Luke, she was sitting by that guy to Luke, but Luke didn't realize that she was.

Legends is crazy. That she had all right. Well, when we're on this topic, where does Cassian, where does Cassian rank now in Star Wars in terms of feats? In terms of just like, the feats that they've done that are important to the galaxy. Can I finish my,

my My camera ran point real quick No, no, no. It's not sorry because we went off from five different episodes. We were deep in there.

Tengit to tangent to tension. My point is this, once he stopped to blast the boat, I thought he was about to be a motherfucker.

Yeah. He turned into fallout boy. 15 minutes after that shit happened. More of my chemical romance. More my chemical romance. Like 15 minutes after that shit happened.

But then you have the throne room fight. He was cool then. Yeah, but here's the thing. He would say no. Really? He got.

He got packed up by Ray who had a lightsaber in her hand for five minutes. That's right. That's not doing it. Even Finn was holding his own. Even Finn was holding his own. He should have two pieces.

You know how Vader did? Shout out to O. Shout out to our sister. You know how Vader was fucking over her? Yeah. Stepping around. Vader was fucking over her. Vader was fucking over her.

Vader was dancing. The light saber. Vader was like a Mario. Yeah. You're dancing, pushing her shit back, hold up, come here, do all kinds of stuff. He wasn't doing that to Finn. Finn was fucking hanging in there with him. But that's what I don't get because I'm just like, whoa, whoa, Kylo Ren was trained by Luke.

They don't even got none of the boys. You're not supposed to, yeah. You're not supposed to be hanging with those boys. So you're supposed to win those games by 40. Yeah. Yeah. Be close. Anyway, but back to Andor.

Are you talking about Cassian's feet? Yeah. Like, in terms of all the Star Wars now, because Cassie, by the end of Andor, he's been everywhere and done anything. I would say number one still would probably be Luke. Are we talking, wait, I mean, you talk about defeats in Star Wars? Yeah, it's tough. Like, in terms of the important, like, he's their importance to being in a certain place

at a certain time, basically having galaxy wide impact. Anakin's up there, too. Anakin, Obi-Wan. Like, if we go, like, Obi-Wan probably got the best feats. It's different if it's non-Jed-O-Ded. No, I think Luke is above Obi-Wan, though. So you guys are doing this again. Obi-Wan, okay, so just listen.

Just listen. I can make an argument, okay? So, Obi-Wan has two different victories against Darth Maugh. Yes. Twin sons. Two different victories against, he's two and one. But Galaxy-wide impact were, like, you know what I'm going to do? Galaxy-wide impact, Vader, he fucked over Vader twice.

But here's the thing. Cassian, Cassian with the Death Start, that's like a galaxy, like, if they don't get that plans, it's a, it's a, it's a rat. Yeah. I think that he's probably like an A-Triple plus like human level smuggled, like he'll he'll probably dog walk.

Is Cassian a better smuggler than Solo is? Oh yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I don't see this nigga in fucking Carbonite. I tell you what? Hans Solo owes way too many people money. Cassian, everybody that he owes money, is dead. I'll just say this.

I would drive Cassian over Han. Easy. Solo has Galaxy Y feeds, though. He dies. So you're taking Han over Cassian? Solo destroyed. Really solo destroyed, two death stars. That's such a...

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He did. He did. I'll give him. I'll give him the first one. I'll give him the first one. What about the fucking... He was the fucking...

He has the fucking... No, I'll give him. I'll give him. That's what I mean. That's what I mean that. got to blow up the fucking thing to get the other death start. And guess what?

And guess what? None of these motherfuckers would be there without Cassie and getting that shit in blood, bro. I get it. Cassing is over haunted this point. I can't co-sign that. I can't co-sign that.

I can't sign that. Because guess what? Cassian didn't fucking birth to you know what I'm saying? Well, I mean, that's fair. I mean, Cassian. Yeah.

That is a. Kassian is not a deadbeat dad. Haunt had to be a good, like, that's all he had to do. But at the same time, though, you gotta blame Skywalker for that. How? How? Because he was chilling. It was cool.

Until he was going to murder his nephew. He was about to murder his nephew. Yeah. He was a death. That's a bad. And a good dad would have actually helped you through some of some shit like that. Can I be real? Can I be real?

Like, like, let's, if we zoom out, if I'm Han in that situation, and I know the history of the Skywalker's and I know your family ain't shit, you're not saying. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, even sometimes. With my family, they'd be like, hey, yo, we got to keep them away from that side of the family. They ain't got their shit together. Yeah, but then your wife was like, why would you leave him alone with Luke?

You know what I'm saying? This is good points. Because probably, you got to do the Jedi thing. This is what I would say. And I'd be on the plate being like, hey, yo, Lou. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Who's a better pilot? Solo or or Cassie and Andrew? I would say Han probably. So, Han's a better pilot. Yeah. Who's a better asset to the rebellion? I would say Cassie. They can't really.

control Han. You really can. He's a liability. At some point. I don't know, man. I don't know, man. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, man. Let me get, done all the time.

Let's think about it for real. Let's think about 18 episodes of Han Solo, man. Okay, we did that and it didn't work. After, after. Let's really think about this. Let's not Midnight Boys. Let's actually think about this. Wow.

He's not, he's, I mean, like, that's the thing. The only thing, the only thing, the only thing, the only thing, that you can possibly get Andor on is probably thinking with his heart too much and Bix fixed that problem for him. But I feel like we're underrating We are underrating solo. Absolutely.

But in terms of like importance. He's a general in the rebellion. That was a promotion from shit that he just did one time. And also that was. In the war. What the fuck are you? Also also like

if your main boo thing is like Princess Leia, I'm not really giving you that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So you think he gets no, he gets no, he saves Skywalker's life. Herrick, Cassing's

fucking counts. No, no, I'm saying What, hold on. Indirectly. Indirectly. Indirectly. All right, we're not doing this. All right.

By that rationale, Galen Erso. By the way, and by the way, if Solo doesn't shoot Vader's shipaway, then Luke doesn't hit the fucking thing. They escape on the millennial falcon that honest line.

I'm saying you don't promote a guy in general for that. Well, I'm just saying you do. Because then by the time we get to Hawth, he's calling the fucking shot. But also here's the thing. Who's a better friend? Because Cassian would never dog out fucking Chewbacca the way Han did. That's his boy. You do that shit to these niggas.

What? I'm getting the medal. Steve is the truth. We all get medals. That's true. We all get medals. And not a smaller metal. Subbacca was not a little later.

a whole time. They didn't say nothing. It all was funny about the... You pulled a metal off by corpse and give it to Chubla. What was funny about the Star Wars rewatchables with Bill and him, Bill brought up to do Chubaka metal thing like no one had ever considered it before. Did anybody catch this?

Did you anybody see the Chubbacah? Bill brought up the Chubacabaca metal thing like no one has ever talked about it. He was like, Chabot... They're giving out medals at the end. And they were like... It was just... Are you about to protect? Seriously

We've been here since 77 You know what I'm saying? Has he's never been on Wikipedia? He's never watched a YouTube song He's never He never watched Family Guy Like no Shout out of the bill

You know like when you're When What? This nigg of Steve is something else This niggas Steve is something else You don't need a shout out, bro A niggas He's coming up

He's up like 200 billion shoutouts He said you're not catching me. No, sir. I'm telling you, he'll need a shout-out. He's straight. Yeah, he's coming out. He's doing good things. Oh, my God.

Hey, two things, because you got to get out of here at some point. A lot of Star Wars, talk, I have a lot of fun. K2S.S. Oh, K2S. We finally get K2S. We went waiting for K2SO for a minute. I mean, we knew that Alan Tudik was coming back for this season, but I was, I loved his relationship.

obviously with Cassian in the movie. And so, like, at the end, you know, he's lost Bix, who I do want to get back to later. And we finally hear the voice come out of them. I was like, oh, man, this is, it's me, something to me, man. I can't wait. But here's the thing, too. It was so cold.

Cassing just got his heartbroken. They, like, all right, we got goggles. He's like, fuck your goggles. Give me the gun. And he's just like, wake him up. He's like, he doesn't care. He's like, wake him up. Like, I'm like, Cassie, can you, like, chill?

Nah. No, he's done and got it in him. Smart. Because K2SO was fucking people up. Did you guys see when he kicked the barrier? Bro. But smart on Cassian's part. Cassian looked at him like the emperor looked at a young Anakin Skywalker.

It was like, I got to take great interest in you. K2S.S. was fucking people. He took a girl. It's terrifying, bro. Yee? And she was dead on impact. I forgot how much damage they can do, man.

He was handling business. And last, so when I first watched Bix say goodbye to Cassian, I thought, first of all, I was sad. I was like, it's kind of a sucks as a way to, like, write off a character, right? Just be like, yo, if I'm here, you can't do what's supposed to do. I'm out of your piece. I thought, like, again, at first I was like, it's kind of sucks. But then more I thought about it, I thought about her conversation with Vell,

Ravel was like, we need, I'm here to talk to you, what can we do to get Cassie and a lock-in? Yeah. Because it seems like he's not all the way here. And she realizes once he gets back and he's like, yo, we got to go. I'm done. It's us. And she's like, oh, you can't do what you need to do if I'm around. Like fundamentally.

Sacrifice she had to make for the rebellion. Exactly. I'm the person who, when you think of me, you think of a different life. You think of something outside the rebellion. Can't have that. This is bigger than me. This is bigger than all of us. If I'm here and you're still thinking about what happens outside,

then it's never going to get done. Right. But the thing that hurts the most, and this is why I got emotional. I didn't cry, but I was like, this is tough because she's talking about when it's all over, when we win,

they can be together. It's going to be great. And we know that that's not how that ends. Yeah, because he was on the beach with Jen Erso. They didn't kiss, man. He spent his life. last moments. But she told her four

sealer, I don't remember a time when I didn't know. I'll talk. I'll be honest to. I don't know if I like how to show. We got three episodes left. I think Bix might have been the most underserved. Where it's like story wise, I love

where it ended. But this season, I just feel a lot of it was kind of leading to this point where Bix kind of has to do this big sacrifice. And it makes sense. But I was just like, I feel like Bix could have gotten a little bit more. I mean, but it's either she disappears or she dies, right? It's one or the other.

She might still. She might still die. We got three episodes. You're not, you're absolutely correct. But I, I'm interested to see, like, I mean, we're not going to get a big spin-off. That'd be, this is a lot going on. But knowing that. Bix as a older Jedi.

That's what I'm saying. Bigs as a older, big says an older Jedi being trained. That would be fun. Because I didn't have that same thought process. I just thought like, you know, hey, it's been a minute. It's not that she's feeling the force, but that she's feeling something. Like, emotionally.

Like, just like. I don't know if we're going to get more clarity on it. Yeah, maybe. I felt like this was definitely them introducing the force into things. But I think that this was actually them introducing not only the fact that Bix can feel the force, but the fact that like, I don't want to call Cassian force sensitive,

but I want to call him, like at this point. But there's definitely like a higher calling of just like him realizing like, oh. I'm touching something in the universe that's bigger than me. That was just like, I. Whoa. All right.

I am with the force. The force is with me. Oh, my Lord. Come on, man. Kermm, did you hear that? Can we be? Come on, man, what are you doing? I'm touching something in the universe that's bigger than me is fucking nuts.

You know, we have the context. Oh, my God. What's you touching that's bigger than you? Dick. What do you want me to say? What do you want me to say? Can we be serious? Oh, my God.

It's so much fun to pocket. Did we, all right, have we talked, before we get out of here, have we hit upon every single thing from this, because they're so fucking much. It's always a lot, man, these three episode beats. I think we did a really good job of covering everything. I will say, and I think I'm going to,

I'm going to actually plant my flag on this. I think episode eight is the best episode. episode of Vandal that we've seen. I haven't seen one better. It's, episode eight was, I think, the crowning achievement.

The only one, obviously the prison escape is fucking fantastic. Yeah. But I haven't seen one better. Like, just from beginning and the end, the tension,

like all the stuff we've mentioned, we talked about over this, like, hour plus of, of this episode was just a master class in building, building, and then having that climax

and then having a result. I just thought that, at the storytelling, the shot you mentioned where Cassian and Cyril are near each other, but they don't come together. And you start to wonder, like, oh, they're in, like, in close space. They have to finally, like, meet up. And then Cyril makes the contact and then that fight and its resolution, I just thought was special, special, special television.

And it, I can't imagine. I mean, we set this episode six last time, we set this episode nine last time, how, does it get better? I have a feeling they can top it. Next week? Oh, man. I don't know, dog. I have a feeling that it's OB-topping.

At this point, I can't, I can't deny it because I didn't think they could top what they did last season and yet they have. If we're forecasting, because we were beefing over this a little bit earlier, where, if they land the plane, season two of Andor, where are you putting this up in terms of properties? I mean, we'll see. We have to, I'm going to, at this point, I really want to wait. I want to wait for the next three episodes because we're giving it such high praise that we got to let them finish. We're giving it very high praise, right?

Oh, but we got K2SO in these episodes. We added a cast moment. Yeah, man. We'll have a very short life, poor little bastard. Two years is cool. Two years, two years. For a robot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I want to see, I know how it's going to end, but I want to see how it ends. Well, is it that the greatest thing where, like, when you know our story is going to end, there is that feeling of like, yeah, but if I watch it this time, by end it, it's like, that's a whole, like, the whole time comes, it's like, he's not dying. The question that we will be having next week won't even be about Star Wars to me. Wow. It will be, is Andor the greatest prequel story ever? Star Wars prequel? Oh, okay.

No, no, no. I was about to say because. Any prequel. Well, most prequel sucks, so. Well, I would say we have to kind of qualify this. Yeah, we can parse it. It's like, is DeVito Corleone a part of Godfather too? Would that be counted in as prequel?

No, I think it's all got it's got like the whole thing. The whole thing has to be true. Like the Hobbit to me is not a prequel. The Hobbit was first. Yeah, that's not a prequel. And then Lord of the Rings came. Like, it's not a prequel. A prequel has to be designed after the main story.

Yeah. Was like, that's my... Let's put together our prequel. Okay. Our prequel stuff. Yeah. Right. Can you look up prequels just so, like, we can give the audience what we'll be discussing?

Like, what are some of the greatest prequels? Bush and Sundance, the early years? I was going to say better call, Saul. Carlito's Way, rise to power. Barrel call Saul. House of the Dragon? Young Sheldon? Yes.

Yes. Young Sheldon. Humble B. 1883 1883 Bufasa the like Fast 5 technically Fast 5 is a prequel

Fast 5 is not really a prequel They're just filling in Yeah Because if that's a prequel Then Godfather too Yeah they're just The Lord of the Rings The Rings of Power

Rise of the Planet of the Apes Oh Rise of the Plants of the Ake Okay That's a good prequel Furiosa Madama Max saga Okay Okay no

Kick her to the curve All right Jesus Christ Fury Fury Road is Wait is Fury Road No Fury Road The First Avengers is not a Prometheus. Okay.

I like Prometheus, but it's not going to be able to really... They are saying Pearl, which I do love Pearl. I love that movie. I love that movie so much. Transformers One. You got, y'all are... I love that. I like Transformers One.

I don't know. Y'all weren't... All right. All right. Keep up. Keep it up. Solo, a Star Wars story? Hey. Let's go ahead and end the song.

Alien Covenant? Y'all like Alien Covenant. I love Alien Covenant. Are we watching the Alien FX show? I'll watch it. I watch it. I'll watch it. No, I mean, are we covering on the midnight?

You could. We could. If y'all want us to. Say some. I mean, I don't know if motherfuckers are that excited for it. X-Men First Class. Pretty good. Pretty good movie.

I'm an X-Men First Class true. Let's do it. Let's put together a definitive list of prequels. And let's round it out to maybe like the top 10, top five prequels. It's already better than those prequels that motherfuckers are gassing just because they're in theaters, man. What prequel? Trying to hate Revenge of the Sith. Trying to hate Revenge of the Sith.

I don't hate revenge. It's fine. It's a strong seven. There you go. I love it. I mean, Andor is better than Revenge of the Sith. Sure. But Revenge of the Sith is like, I love Revenge of the Sith, but Andor is probably better than Revenue of the Sith.

Is Revenge of the Sith better than a Phantom Metz? Yeah. It's the best of those three by far. Easily. Yeah. I watch them. Ah, I forgot. Jar Jar Bix does take the curve down on that one.

One and two. He's not. He's not even in the third one. Hey, my nigga became a senator. Y'all haters. Y'all hated. They let what are you in these jokes become senators? That clearly realized.

And my man became a senator. They was booing. They was booing. Where does Judge and Bing stand on the separatist movement of Gorman? He was used as a pawn. That's a wrap. This week on the Ring of Verse feed, the House of Aller brings you their deep dive on Andrew Thursday,

but MASH dives into The Last of Us. The Midnight Boys give you their last of his reactions right when the episode drops. Another show that's good news. Our producers are Steve, the architect, Alman, Jonathan Kerma, Jomey, McClainer, Denaron, hashtag the Blue Milk Merchant, Alleyer, Zanaris, an additional production from Arjuna, Ram the Pal. Chuck Pick us out. We already miss you, Bix, andor has gone to another level. And did y'all know that Chubaca didn't receive a medal?

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