The Ringer-Verse - "The Green Knight" Exit Survey

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Mallory is joined by The Ringer's Andrew Gruttadaro to discuss their love for the latest fantasy adventure 'The Green Knight' by taking a look at The Ringer's exit survey (09:45). They discuss their favorite characters, outfits, and fantastical elements of this medieval tale. Later, they show love to the Netflix series 'Outer Banks' and debate if it's actually a superhero tale (77:06). Host: Mallory Rubin Guests: Andrew Gruttadaro Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal and TD St. Matthew-Daniel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I will be there. And welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, co-host of Binge mode, head of editorial here at The Ringer. And it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to Camelot, but to join us on the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. And what a time it is here at the Ringerverse. Busy stretch, Marvel's new animated series, What If? premieres next week. We are so hyped for that. The Midnight Boys, Van and Charles, phew,

we'll have their instant reaction pod for you on Wednesday, of course, and then I will be diving into the what if premiere next Friday. Shortly after that, by the way, likely the following week, exact timing, TBD, I will be chatting about the Bad Batch finale and the overall, just outstanding opening season with Ben Limburg. Speaking of Bad Batch, Season 2 renewal news this week, just wonderful to see that confirmed, as was getting a date at long last for Amazon's Lord of the Rings show, September 2022. Mark your calendars. The two trees of the promo photo, so much to parse and celebrate already. I cannot wait for that show. But long before 2022, even before our what-if pods next week, we will be gathering for another ringer-verse crossover event.

We are so excited for the new Suicide Squad movie that we will be joining forces to chat about the latest DC film. Watch the movie this weekend and then head back on a Monday afternoon to the Ring ofverse to hear Van Charles and me discuss the movie. And of course, follow us. Follow the Ring ofverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Follow us across our social channels. Bear in mind our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. Today's episode will contain plot points, spoilers from the film The Green Night, and then a couple minutes at the end of today's episode on season two of the Netflix show,

Outer Banks. So proceed with more caution than the Pogs do when they do literally anything. Joining me today to chat about the Green Night and OBX for just a moment. now that I've finished asking him to tell me a tale of himself so that I might know thee. It's Ringer Senior Editor. Pop Culture Night. Andrew Greta Daro. Andrew, welcome into the Ringerverse.

Now, thank you so much. I'm honored to be here. These two things are near and dear to my heart, and I think explain my personality more than anything else in the world. Other than talking about golf and Josh Allen, I'm not sure there could be a more fitting a set of topics for you today, honestly. Yep, yep. This is it. This is the personality right here.

You're welcome to mention golf and Josh Allen as we go, by the way. You know, do what feels right. Andrew, before we talk about the green night. Yes. Talk about how we're going to talk about the green night. Okay. It's a great idea. Yeah.

We are going to bring a rear.com staple. one of your babies, the exit survey, here to the ringer verse today. Tell people about the exit survey. So the exit survey, it's been, we've been doing them for, oh my God, like four years now. And basically, they are a series of questions and prompts that we give to the staff that they are supposed to fill out right after seeing a movie. So we get their instant reactions. we get their favorite scenes, their least favorite moments, and then a bunch of silly stuff and serious stuff mixed in. So it's really a snap reaction to a movie or a TV show.

One of the reasons I thought that this would be fun today is because you're here with me. And, you know, you love an exit survey. So I just thought this would be a fun way to go through the movie with you. But also, I think it's a fun way to dip in and out of different, categories and aspects, not only of the film and the story itself, but of watching the film, consuming the film, and thinking about the film. Before we talk a little bit more about it, though, I think we need to do one other thing right at the jump here. This is essential, even if we end up abandoning what we agree to. Okay. How are we going to pronounce the main

character's name on this podcast? It's a great question. because this has long been a matter of debate, right? Now we should say the movie is based on the 14th century poem, which I will now name and thus will reveal my first attempt at pronouncing this, Sir Gawain, Sir Garwin, Sir Gawain. Yeah. And the green knight. So I always thought that it was Gawain.

And in fact, I remember having a pretty detailed conversation with Chris Ryan about this back in, I guess, early 2020, maybe 2019 when the hype for the movie was building because this was originally set to premiere at South by Southwest in March of 2020 and hit theaters in May of 2020. filming wrapped in 2019 and of course the movie was delayed amid the pandemic David Lowry

who directed the movie wrote the movie edited the movie has spoken in numerous interviews with our own Sean Fennacy on the big picture

among them about re-editing the movie during COVID using that extra time that he had to really rework and craft the film. He told Sean that he ended up locking this version of it around Halloween of

2020. How many different times people pronounce the name differently over those months? Who can say? But when the movie was originally like building all that hype, Chris and I were chatting about it. I think we landed on Gawain, you know, the medieval spirit, that middle English In the movie, King Arthur says Garwin, which is shocking. Honestly, shocking. I was like, hold up, wait. But I kind of like it. Yeah, me too.

I might just go with that today. We'll see. I think we could say there's no, much as there's no right or wrong way to interpret the ending of the film, there's no right or wrong way necessarily to pronounce the name. Many of the other characters say Gawain. It's like close to Garwin, but without the R. Yeah. That seems to be how Lowry is saying it's too in interviews. Do you have a preference? I've been a Gawain person my entire life. Yeah. Like in school with this stuff, anytime it came up. Read in the text. I was Gawain. But I do agree with you that there's a little bit of a charm to Garwin.

And I don't know if it's just like Sean Harris saying it. And just I love King Arthur in this movie. But I'm good with it. I think it gives it sort of its own unique spot in canon or whatever. Yes. When we talk about a modern update. This is what we mean. Garwin.

What a cast in this movie. Great cast all around. I mean, you just mentioned Sean Harris's King, Arthur. I was, as I always am, delighted to see Kate Dickey as Queen Queen Guinevere. Liza Aaron stands. I don't know if delighted is the word I would use, but I don't know. I'm just like shouting, where's Robin? Where's the breast milk? Let's go. It's like reflexive. I can't help it. It's just instinctual. What a performance from Dev Patel in this movie as our guy Garwin. He is he is the focus. This is a this is a, this is a.

hell of an effort from him. Really amazing stuff. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need Weather Tech unless you plan on doing. Summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business.

So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not a available in all areas. If you haven't checked out the Green Night Exit Survey on the ringer.com, please do. It's a lot of fun to read. And in general, you can head to the Ringer for exit surveys off of new movies. You know, we love movies here at theringer.com. What a great website. They really are a lot of fun.

Both movies and exit surveys are a lot of fun. We're going to stick with most of the prompts from the Green Night exit survey, but we're also going to add in a few more, amend a little. bit as we go. But we will start with an exit survey staple. And I will say not one that I am well equipped to ever hit because it requires being succinct. What is your tweet length review of the Green Night? Sometimes with exit surveys, I will have already tweeted about the movie. And then, you know, we get asked this question. It's like, oh, perfect. I actually have a tweet for this. You just drop it in a shameless play for engagement with your Twitter feed. That's right.

Give me them likes. I'm in a never-ending quest for likes. So literally I walked out onto a New York City Street after seeing this movie and I typed something like just saw the green night and now I have to take off the rest of the week of work. Which again, I'm just, the movie is for me so laden with meaning and so many things to think about, not even just what the movie is saying, but how the movie makes you feel about life and about how you think about everything from, you know, what makes you a person to death and, you know, really serious things that by the time I was done watching this movie, I was just like, oh, my God, I need a nap. But in the best way possible. Yes. Yeah. No, I really agree. Here's my attempt at a tweet length review.

A modern retelling of the Arthurian myth, complete with a thematically rich quest, stunningly haunting, scenery and score, and a dope fox, plus some weird sex stuff worth the wait. Oh my God. That's exactly it. Yeah. Could have also gone with, you know, the old, the old classic framework, like quest, fox, handjobs, oh, my. I mean, that would work too, you know? Yeah. Definitely going to spend a good amount of time today talking about the hand job.

Just warning everyone up front. I loved the movie. Like, I really loved the movie. And in general, this is like right in my wheelhouse. You know, I love it. It'll shock you to hear Andrew that I love at Arthurian legend. Let's take people behind the curtain for a second here. We were talking about the film.

Arjuna, who is, of course, with us on Zoom today, was like, you've got to see this. You're going to love it. You slapped me something even more specific, which was Green Night is dope. You're going to love it. I believe someone says free will in this movie. Look, I know what you like, okay?

We've worked together long enough. I just felt, I felt so seen in that moment, Andrew. But I love a quest, and I really do love the themes, which we'll talk about. in depth later in our exit survey today. I love the themes that are at the heart of the story, that are at the heart of this quest and this journey. I love the way the movie and this telling of the classic tale

balanced numerous different types of conflict. You know, you have, of course, man versus man, and you have, of course, man versus nature, but ultimately this is a man versus self story. And I felt that the film was able to clearly articulate and convey that while still maintaining a balance between all of those aspects. I loved the scenery, you know, those Irish and British cliff sides. And I loved the performances. I thought the cast was really outstanding.

It is a very strange and very somber, very somber. very somber and serious movie, but tonally, aesthetically, thematically, it just really worked for me and it has stuck with me. I have enjoyed continuing to think about it and parse it. And I think it'll be a movie that I really enjoy returning to time and time again. Yeah, it's definitely a movie that you're going to get more out of the more you watch it.

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Much like, you know, returning to the original text itself. Okay, our next prompt. We're going to start with kind of a big picture umbrella here, and then we're going to dive into a bunch of sub-prompts here, tied up into the idea of, like, best favorite. Okay, for starters, what was the best overall moment of the film? What moment stuck with you?

What was your favorite? What are you putting up above all of the others as your number one? For me, it is the ending montage. the moment when Garwin, Garwin is about to get his, is about to get his head chopped off by the Green Knight. And he ultimately sort of runs away, basically. And then it says, no, I can't do this. I'm not going to follow through on this little pact we have

to let you chop my head off. And that sets off, that sets off a montage scored by a, beautiful folk song. So ethereal. Right. Yeah. And you see, you see basically what Garwin's life would be if he goes through with this sort of active betrayal or

cowardice or whatever you want to call it. He takes over. He takes the throne after Arthur passes. He has children, some legitimate, some illegitimate. He is, wedded to a worthy queen. People die. Pretty much everyone dies. A lot of them. A lot of death. Yeah. And he's he's there through it all sort of witnessing this whole thing. And then eventually he dies.

And I think after that, it snaps back to he's right back where he was in the Green Chapel, waiting to get his head cut off. and he's learned a lot about himself and about life through that montage. And I think that that whole thing just sort of takes everything that the movie has been trying to talk about, takes everything home. That's my pick two. We have a whole category coming on the ending, so we'll dive into it further soon. But, you know, for every reason you just said, I mean, seeing how his life might have played out, had he run, had he continued to try to take that shortcut,

which is another through line of the film, and then that cut back to the present. This movie has like a stinger. He's got a post-credit scene with the girl picking up the crown, and you think, okay, well, how do we add that nugget into our overall interpretation of how the ending unfolds? And again, you know, we're going to talk more later. about the ending and how we and others are interpreting it.

So because that's coming later and because this was your pick here, even though I just said it was my pick, I do want to cheat and I want to offer up another contender. Okay. This is maybe a surprise because it's a quieter moment and a comparatively, I think, kind of small moment, but I loved it. I loved it.

I thought it was beautiful. Garwin, Gowan, Gawain, and the Lord, in an unbelievable performance for Joel Hederton, like, incredible. Legendary, yeah. Sitting by the fire and talking about the quest, talking about purpose, talking about what is driving this quest. The Lord asks him what he hopes. to gain. And there's this great exchange where he says, honor, but kind of with that upward inflection where it sounds like he's asking, right? And the Lord says, are you asking me? And then he's like more declarative, more definitive, right? No, honor. That is why a knight does what he does.

And then the Lord says, and this is what you want most in life. And I love this next exchange, both again, because it was so poignant, but also like kind of wry and sort of charming in its, in its subtle wit, which I think defines a lot of the writing in the movie, to be a knight. He replies. And then the Lord says, no, honor, you're not very good with questions. This all exchange. But it felt very apt and very symbolic because that's at so much of the heart of the story is, well, what is actually driving this? And not only for our guy Garwin, but for all of us. Like, why do we do the things we do? And how much of that is for ourselves and how much of that is for other people or what we think we are supposed to pursue, what we think is supposed to represent success or define the course of our journey,

when he replies, he says, it's part of the life he wants, which is one of his moments of like real introspection where we can glimpse how he's actually thinking about this because so much of the movie, you're like, this is not what he wants. This is just what he thinks he is meant or has to pursue or the things he wants about it come into conflict with the other things that he wants. You know, time with Essel.

A night at the tavern, you know, on and on the list goes. And the Lord replies, and this is all it takes for that part to be had. You do this one thing. You turn home a changed man, an honorable man, just like that.

And he says, yes. And of course, like as the audience were supposed to recoil at that because like that can't be true right there are no shortcuts and I loved the Lord's reply he said huh I wish I could see the you the new you perhaps we will miss our old friend and our fun and our games and like I just thought that was such a you know such a powerful and like almost profound exchange like such a great way to shift the quest to that man versus self focus and to ask him to look inward and really assess why he is doing this,

to consider what he actually wants and to think about why we want what we want and how and where that drives us and leads us. Like, it's not, this scene is not a, you know, a heist in the woods or a plunge into these shadowy depths. I think it achieves as much as any other sequence on the quest. does and it does so like really quietly and intimately and gently. I just loved it. Yeah, you're spot on. Um, I actually, I hadn't read this poem until I saw this movie. How did you enjoy it? I, I mean, I did enjoy it. I thought, you know, we don't know who wrote it,

which is fascinating to me. Gawain poet. Yeah, Gawain Poet. Shout out him. But some of it is, particularly the writing about the passage of time is, um, really incredible. that piece and, you know, I think is captured amazingly. But Garwin Gawain in that poem, it's a much friendlier reading of the knight. And he's sort of already honorable and valorous. Well, and crucially already a knight, which is a big distinction. Yes.

And so comparing and contrasting those, It's fascinating to see what this particular telling does with that character to sort of speak to us as humanity, honestly, because it's really getting to that point that Gawain is at in the poem, which, you know, isn't so easy. Yes, I completely agree. All right. While we're talking about favorites, favorite character. Well, number one, you have to say the Green Knight. I think he's a fascinating man or tree man. whatever you want to call him.

I slacked you this after I saw the movie and was like, I can't believe it's that guy from Game of Thrones. Dagmer Lockjaw, am I getting that name right? Clefjaw? Yeah. Lockjaw would be a great character name, though. Something going on with his jaw. Yeah, our guy, Dagmar Clefjaw.

Great stuff. Yeah, he's just tremendous. Tremendous of this. Ralph, Ralph Inneson, who was also in, the witch. I loved him in the witch as well. And again, you can't really tell it's him because he's sort of covered in tree bark the entire time. Again, there's a sort of like rye horror to him where he's he's both terrifying but also kind of a jokester.

Loves his games. Yeah, just like loves a good little game on Christmas. You know, loves to have his head chopped off. and pick it up off the ground and ride away laughing. And I think that the moment when Garwin snaps back to reality removes his girdle and says, I'm ready. And he actually is ready this time. And the Green Knight lightly caresses his face and says, well done, my brave night.

It says, well done. That's a beautiful moment. And yeah, there's more depth to the Green Knight than I think you might think, just watching the trailer. That's a really good pick. I'm going with him and that character and that rendering for a different category, but I respect the choice here. I just want to say that the answer to this question, the favorite character, it's just obviously

the fox. It has to be the fox. Without question for me, it's the fox. However, we also have a Fox-specific prompt coming up. So for the sake of variance, I'm going to just give it up one more time here for devs, Garwin. Go in. Gawin. It's an incredible performance.

I really loved this version of the character. I really like that you can sink into the deepest pits of dread and despair with him. You can ride high on the crest of adventure.

You can just, you know, get into a pretty weird headspace with some of the lust stuff. Okay? We'll get to that later as well. But the blend of that across the performance and his like trepidation. Yeah. You know, he kind of just wants to keep being a kid and keep fucking around.

But also feels the burden of this, this land of legends and myths, which presumably many people would feel. But his proximity to Arthur, who he is. of course, heightens and amplifies that. And I just really like the version of this character because really want to root for him and want him to be okay at the end. You need to get to a point where you feel very proud of the choice

that he is able to make and the growth that he has shown. But there are a lot of points along the way where you need to be disappointed in him. And that's pretty hard to pull off. I thought it was done quite well here. My man is soaking wet the entire movie. So I really dug it.

I really dug it. Yeah. It's a great performance. I love it. So strenuous. Like I said, the camera's on him almost 100% of the time. And he's going through hell. Best hang among the secondary characters.

Who do you want to spend your time with? It's Joel Egerton's lord by a mile, right? I don't think this one's particularly close. This is a runaway. I mean, the other options, the other options are a thief played by Barry Kagan. Terrifying performance and character.

The scavenger. Yeah, he's the scavenger who kidnaps or ties up Garwin and runs off with his axe. He's terrifying. So, yeah, that guy's out.

He's out. That's a no for me. We've got Winifred who is a ghost of a girl who got her head chopped off. Play Carly Morgenthau from the Wittier Soldier. That's right. It's fun to see her in a very different setting.

She didn't seem as scary, but again, her backstory is quite haunting. So she's out for me too. We've got giants who, you know, they seem chill. They seem chill, also not that helpful. And can't trust them. They seem to be on a different level as us humans. And then you've got Elisa Vicander's lady who is quite terrifying. And there's a lot of mind games going on with her.

And it's the scariest hand job I've ever seen in a movie. So I want no part of that. Yeah, that was tough. We should say, Vakander, pulling double duty in this movie, plays two characters, the lady and Essel. Very different hairdoes, as I know you're eager to discuss. One is much better than the other. But yeah, you're right. It's, I mean, again, you could, I guess you could say the Fox again, because great hang, super helpful.

But the Lord, so welcoming, you know, a welcoming abode. But, I mean, again, you could say too welcoming if you, if you factor in me. There's some weird dynamics. It's just the overall household, right, and everything unfolding with the lady. But warm meals, fresh game, you know, a hunt, clean linens, scintillating conversation, the use of his library, the companionship of his family, the offer of additional companionship. Anything you really need? Yeah.

Also, wisdom. You know, I loved that line. I see things everywhere that bear no logic. Just great stuff. Let me take a moment, though, to just offer up another candidate here. I do think Essel is a really great hang. They spend most of their time drinking and having sex.

Okay? And when they're chatting, it's usually about the nature of, devotion. Wonderful. She gives, she gives him that little, uh, the token as he calls it, token of her love, though he will later tell the lady that, uh, he doesn't know anything of love, which is very, very tough stuff there for our girl Essel and her token. Got a got some, uh, eager at John Snow vibes from the, the Garwin Essel conversation about, you know, do you still fancy me? Do I make you happy? What would you say if I asked you to make me your lady?

Like not because Eagret wanted to be a lady. She used to love to dunk on the idea of balls and fancy gowns. Love my gal. But because of that manifestation of these people who are drawn to each other, but know on some level that they can't be together, like the world's divided. But she just seemed great, you know? she she's kind of a no bullshit kind of lady um and garwin you know god love him he's full of bullshit in this movie and she is quick to call him on it um it's a very nice dynamic and coupled with fickander's other character is just a whole lot of a lot of mind shit that like i can't even imagine i love it the look on his face when he first meets the lady and sees that she is Essel's doppelganger.

Incredible stuff. All right. We've talked about the Fox a few times. It's time for a Fox-centric category here. Favorite Fox moment? If you can narrow it down. It's tough.

He's a joy throughout. He's really like your one light for a lot of darkness in this movie. I'm going to say my favorite moment is when he comes into the cave that Garwin is sleeping in. And at first he's, he slightly comes in and he makes himself known a little bit.

And to this point, Garwin has been sort of not acknowledging the fox's presence. Right. But has seen the fox multiple times along the journey at this point, yes. And this is the moment where Garwin invites him in and says, you might as well come in and share this warmth. And that's really the moment that their friendship is bonded. And it's very nice and very sweet. Again, at a time in the movie where you don't have a lot of sweetness.

Yes. That is actually my pick too, though I feel compelled to note that that tenderness, that that welcoming moment comes on the heels of fucking Garwin, throwing a rock at the fox, which is horrible. Made me think of two socks. Very tough. In general, loved the fox. The guide, the symbol of the hunt. But, you know, we see the tapestry in the Lord and Ladies Castle of the Hunt, but also, you know, the symbol of wisdom. Bonus. I'm sure this was true for many people. Seeing the Fox just made me think of Flea Bag season two. Made me think a hot priest. Yep. Yeah. It's inevitable. I love anything that makes me think of Hot Priest's Flea back.

It's inevitable, yeah. But I love that moment that you cited when he says, well, come on in if you want. And I particularly loved the way. that, and when you see that overhead shot, the fox like curls up. Next to him to sleep, it was really sweet. Runner up here, I think, is the fox howl singing at the giants.

You know, the wisdom of the guide, the magical helper on the road of trials, this kind of quintessential thing, this archetype and Heroes' journey staple embedded inside of this Arthurian quest. I really liked seeing that. That was awesome. Yeah.

Again, he's, he's, he's a bit of lightness and of warmness in some cold moments. How'd you feel about the Fox speaking? One startling, extremely startling. After a full movie of a Fox not speaking, you're not really prepared for him to start saying stuff. And he also sort of sounds like Sean Harris. So I didn't, for a moment, my brain was like, am I supposed to think that this is King Arthur? I ultimately, I feel two ways about it because I do think that him sort of being a silent passenger in the movie is nice.

And I think it would have been okay had the Fox never spoken. That said, his message to Garwin in that moment, Garwin's about to actually enter the Green Chapel. and the Fox says, you know, you don't have to do this. You can act. There's nothing forcing you to do this. Your doom lies in that chapel. So just don't go. Like, we can just go chill.

Like, and I think in that way, he sort of functions as, as Garwin's almost voice of reason and conscience almost to say, you know, maybe you're making the wrong decision here. And it's important that Garwin's almost. Arwin denies that temptation. Yeah, it's interesting because it simultaneously functions as a temptation. You know, turn around. Go home. Don't do this.

But also is like a crucial final lesson because of the specifically the exchange about the girdle. Like, well, you know, you know, and how he has to ultimately internalize that and what that protection affords him, but also what it what it prevents. So I like the richness of that moment. Okay. Favorite imagery. No shortage of options here.

Yeah, geez. I'm going to go with the red bottomless pond that Garwin dives into to retrieve Winter Fred's skull. I won't attest to really knowing this symbolism here. I mean, obviously, red traditionally symbolizes a lot of different things from blood and violence. to, you know, warmth and fire, stuff like that. I don't know what it means that Garwin is diving into a red abyss like that, but it's a compelling image that will never leave your brain. Yeah, that's a great pick.

I'm going to go with the skeleton in the woods, that sequence, tied up by the scavenger and his pals who, you know, they take a lot, right? They take the horse, they take the axe, crucially, take the girdle. they leave behind a sword and then the cloak. That's thoughtful, ultimately. But that whole sequence is so haunting, you know, misled by naivety, by trust, ensnared in their trap after that really intense and fraught kindness. My thanks exchange on the battlefield.

The battlefield, by the way, that is, you know, littered with the dead amid the, the protestations of peace. And that line where he says, just tell me then, is there really a chapel? And the scavenger says, you're in it? Like that,

that's the exchange that precedes this skeletal vision. And it's so creepy, but also so apt because the chapel and all it represents, it's not just the end point. It is the entire journey and all that it includes.

compasses and all that it entails. And when the scavenger says, you rest your bones, my brave little night, I'll finish your quest for you. I'll finish it good. And just like, I got to chill in that moment. And that's all the setup for my choice here for the imagery, which is this hallucinatory vision, dream sequence, whatever terminology you want to use, harrowing in its own right, but also crucially like a harbinger of the device that's going to be used in the end sequence to fast forward and then rewind, which I think is like a really crucial thing for us as viewers. You know, the camera pans in this circular motion and we see greenery and lushness and new growth. And then there are these little pops of color mixed in. It almost made me think of annihilation for a second, these like

bursts of brightness, like suddenly exploding out in the wilderness. We hear birds chirping. And then when we pan back to Garwin, he's a corpse, still resting in the same spot, having just withered away as, and this is like the tragedy of it and the poetic potency of it, he's withered away, not as everything else rots too, but as everything else flourishes around him. And then we go back. other way. Time and progress, like, unwind, and we see that he's alive, that we are still in the presence. And I loved this not only because it was just so cool and impactful, not only because

it sets up the sequence of the end, but because it connected to the puppet show and that time wheel, which was something else that I really enjoyed, which we see a lot of early in the movie, like a way to show how people spread stories. and told tales and celebrated legends in real time. It actually makes me think of the play sequence in Bravo's and Thrones. That's not a puppet show, obviously, but like there's something of a piece about it. But also because I just like the click, the click of that wheel as it was spinning, you know, time inching forward toward what feels like this inescapable thing and how that juxtaposes choice and destiny. I love that all.

I'll throw out one other nominee very quickly here. the sequence where the Green Knight's face morphs from character to character as he's sleeping, and Garwin is sitting and watching in the chapel and waiting and reflecting on his journey and the nature of connection and change. And there's something almost like tranquil and peaceful about that period of waiting, that moment of waiting. And David Lauerly, actually, he spoke about the morphing faces to our buddy Joanna Robinson in his interview for Vanity Fair. He said, quote,

he turns into every character's face. It starts with Joel. Then it turns into King Arthur actor Sean Harris, Alicia for a moment, and then she changes into Sarita and then into Dev himself. And then he continues in another quote, that moment was a reminder for me

and for the audience of this entire journey and all of these encounters have all been about the pursuit of one thing and it all goes back to the choice that dev makes, which is why the final face you see there is his own. I love that. Yeah, that's great.

So much going on in this movie. It's awesome. I know. I know. Now, this next category might connect to some of the choices we just made in that last, in that last category. What's your favorite setting? The Highlands that he traverses with this film takes place in England, but was actually filmed in Ireland. All beautiful. And as you say, like the lushness of nature is very important in this movie.

I'll say my favorite setting was Camelot and how Camelot is presented. I think a notion that you have when you hear Knights of the Roundtable, you don't picture it at the period that it's at in this movie. Arthur is aging. He's old. He literally said he can't pick up this sword. Yeah, he's dying. Camelot, too, when we see it sort of in Garwin's rearview mirror as he's leaving,

it also appears to be dying, or its best days are behind it. I think that's incredibly important in this story. You know, these guys are legends. Garwin says it himself. He's among legends on Christmas. But they're going to be gone. They're a very small sliver in time, and everything surrounding Camelot is going to exist after Camelot.

So I think showing it as gray and as drab as Lowry and his crew does is like a huge part of hammering home these themes of sort of time and man versus nature and nature's willingness to overtake man. Yeah, that's a really good point because it's tied in, of course, to why the characters pursue these things so actively. like everything is is transitory nothing lasts except maybe the legend it makes me think of like Taiwan talking about legacy you know it's what's left of you and you're gone my pick is the Green Chapel

I think that it it could appear broken and crumbling but after the voyage that we take in the movie and after hearing the ladies again haunting speech about the color green. We see it, I think, really in a different way.

It is not overrun with weeds. It's lush. It's alive. It's brimming with foliage and growth. It's verdant. It's returning to life. You know, you think back to how she said, green is the color of earth of living things of life.

And then Dharma's reply is end of rot. And the role overall in the movie of the return to the earth and climate change and all of these themes that are tied up and a part of the story in addition to the knight's, the nightly quest, you really feel the force of that when you arrive at the Green Chapel. And I also loved the initial view of the setting because the Green Knight, like sitting there nestled in the, the growth in the sprouts. It reminded me a little bit of the three-eyed raven when Brand discovers him beneath the wherewood and the roots are growing through him. And the other thing I really liked about it

was it reminded me something that David Lowry said on the big picture with Sean Fennessee here on the Ringer podcast Network. He talked with Sean about marrying the intimacy with scope and I feel like this setting really captures that. Yeah, no, he's part of the chapel, the Green Knight is. He is sort of, he's a representation of nature. And I agree with you.

I think it's really well done. Inside all of these settings, people are wearing a lot of great outfits. Some splendid fashion in the film, what's your favorite fit? I really love the old lady with, the blindfold. What an incredible pick. I don't know what's going on there, Mel. Can you help me with this?

Obviously, it's an extremely startling character. She is the ladies' maid? Well, I think, you know, we'll get shortly, I think, to the mother, who is Morgan Le Fay from the, the poem, different representation. here, but the ritual that opens the film and is intercut with the challenge, the mother, that character, that ritual spawns the challenge, spawns everything that unfolds, sets Garwin on his course, and the magic and her presence manifests across the story. We hear the echoes and the things people say. We can feel the control, the possession, which again connects to the, you know,

the original telling, you know, that blindfold, it just matches and mirrors exactly what we see the mother character wearing when she is putting the ritual into action at the beginning of the film. And I think that's just her keeping an eye on things. You know, no one acknowledges the presence of that character in any room ever. It's troubling to think of the implications of mother being there in that way. She saw some stuff going down. She may have participated in some stuff, which we'll get to a little bit. That's one of the readings, certainly. But just an incredible pick from you here in terms of our little fashion corner.

I won't forget it. It'll be in my dreams. I'm going with our main man here. Our would-be night. You know, the golden cloak, the green girdle, what are all that plays, the one-time missing boots? It's a great look. And as the draped cloak as he's traversing across the land, it just is really wonderful,

kind of like blends into the landscape, but also gives it just enough pop. I do want to shout out, though, the king and queen's crowns. You know, really subtle stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, those are great. Oh, God.

All right. Favorite fantastical element? So I feel like in this movie there, you were just sort of hitting on it. There's so much magic and sort of supernatural elements that I literally can't explain, and I'm not even sure you're supposed to be able to explain. You know, the mere fact that Essel and the lady at the castle have the same face. The fact that Garwin loses the axe and then when he's at Winifred's, it's there.

the reappearance of the girdle that he was given. So much of these things, so much of this movie, it's sort of almost like dream logic. All of this stuff seems to be happening outside of the realm of reality. To me, all of that stuff and the fact that the axe comes back and these things come back, it to me is kind of a statement that even as he strays from his path and, you know, he's kidnapped or scaffolding. scavenged. He's, he can't leave that path fully. That path will always find him no matter what

happens and no matter who he encounters. He's always going to end up back on it and end up back at the Green Chapel. I love the way that so much in the movie is open to an interpretation and that that fact is really actively embraced by Lowry. I am going with the Green Knight and his axe, you know, the practical effects that we see in how the Green Knight is presented. like the, the, uh, just ent-like vibes of that, uh, tree park rendering it in a good way. I'm, um, pro-ent. The chills of the challenge itself, the thematic resonance of his choice to answer the challenge. Like, think about, you know, some of the lines in the challenge.

Like, let whichever of your knight's is boldest of blood and wildest of heart step forth. the rules like the trap, the logic and specificity of the one year later aspect, should he land a blow, then one year in Yuletide hence, he must seek me out yonder, I will return, he continues later, what was given to me. Like, Garwin could have not cut his head off, right? Well, return what was given to me. okay, you're thinking, while I cut his head off, I'm not going to have to worry about this, right? Not anticipating, of course, that he would lift his head up and ride away like he's in sleepy hollow.

But he can't resist. Like, he can't resist this opportunity to play to the crowd and to try again to find his way into this thing that is just hovering over his entire existence. What's the pathway to glory? When he says, I will do it, there's like a moment where you kind of, I think, can't help but think of Frodo. you know, standing at Rivendale and saying, I will take it. But it's the motivation is so different. Like it's not this selfless thing here. And, you know, the moment where he's holding Excalibur and everything that's tied up in that,

performing in front of the knights of the round table, his utter confusion is the green knight drops his axe and presents his neck. But like the rashness that just presents him from thinking clearly, thinking logically, anticipating looking ahead, like the boldness of his charge is just blended in with his fear. And he's like, what is this trick? But then immediately transitions to after some pacing and panting and a lot of anxiety on display. Never forget what happened here, right? And I love also mixed in with the action of that, like the gentle things, like the

moss springing up where the axe touches the ground and then the horror of the chalice that's knocked over and the blood-like, you know, liquid pouring into every nook and cranny of the ground and all the things that are embedded in like the fabric of our existence, right? And then, you know, to return back to what you were just talking about into what we were talking about a couple minutes ago, like with the magic, with the magical connections to his mother, whose ritual begins all this and who is just ever present in the film. I mean, you start with like the tiles that she's placing together. And it's just so clear right away that she is this like architect and is working on this plan and, you know, in a way like making puppets of them all.

And I, of course, as you know, love thinking about that. Like if someone else is setting you on this path, then what do your choices mean inside of like a road that you are not paving, that you maybe don't even want to go down? You know, the green knight is her conscience. You know, the green knight is her conjuring, but consider also like the moments where her words and the kings are in lockstep, brother, sister, or her use of like something like, you know, the tooth that she pulls from the skull to use in her ritual. And then like we see later Arthur pulling on his tooth and saying, like, I have a toothache and like what the parallels are and what the connections are and how much she is shaping versus how much agency the other characters possess. You know, we talked about the parallel

all with like the blindfold and the recurrences later at the Lord and Ladies Castle. You know, she is just very present throughout the journey. And even when Garwin first arrives at the Lord and Lady's Castle and there's that overhead shot of him in that, you know, beautiful bed, we see like his mother tending to him. Like, is that actually happening? Is he imagining that it's happening? Because her words and her visual accoutrements from the blindfold to other objects that we associate with her, language that we associate with her, the messages that we associate with her

are recurring across settings and characters. Like, her possessing other characters and guiding them is true to the poem. So I think we should, we should say that that is what's happening. But then you can't help but ask, right? Well, is her presence too recurring if we look at the parallels specifically with the girdle and the language of the handoff when she presents it to her son? and then later when the lady presents it in the handjob sequence. Like, I do love the way that, you know, the enchantment is stitched inside of the girdle. Made me think of Reynolds from Phantom Thread, you know, sewing in a little treasure. No word on how any of these people.

I was going to say no word on how any of these people feel about mushrooms, but that's actually not true. We have a deeply distressing mushroom sequence in this movie. So when she gives him the girdle, she says, take this now, wear it about your waist as you go, and if you wear it still when you return, you will come with your head held. She promises him that no harm will come to him

from this protective, this belt, this garment, this object. And then when the lady hands it over, slick and coated with his bodily excretions. He's baptized. She says, wear it and you will never be struck down. So again, there's this like parallel language there. I don't know, man. Did his mother jack him off?

Did she stand in witnesses? The lady gave him a hand job. Very tough. It's tough. I don't like that at all. But yeah, I think the mother character is like maybe the most unknowable figure in this movie. her motivations for why she sets her son on this path and what she hopes he gains from it,

I'm still sort of working over in my head. What about your favorite beheading? This is a tough one. There's several, several good ones. I think for all the reasons you just said, the Green Knights beheading. and him, you know, just the pure almost entertainment of Garwin's back is to him after he's, quote unquote, been slain.

And he simply just rises and picks up his head and rides off while cackling. Unbelievable flex from our guy, the Green Knight. It's like tough, man. That sucks. You really didn't see that one coming. But it does, you know, we have sort of the. benefit of hindsight in in that moment where you know we've we've seen the trailer we've read the story we know we know that the green night is going to stand up um in a way that no one else does

um so it's it's hard to i it's hard to judge garwin for you know landing a killing blow there but at the same time the fact that he does feel compelled to to sort of show off in front of this room full of nights speaks to who he is and that there isn't even a slight second of consideration to the implications of his actions. That's who he is as a character. And that's, you learn so much from him from that moment. Can I pick Winifreds even though it is a reheating technically? It's fair game.

Stem us from a beheading. Head is off. That's all we need. Okay. It's eligible. Just a great, like, spooky sequence that you already talked about with the dive into the pool to retrieve her skull. This is another, you know, Lowry, like, twist on the classic. This is after the scavenger sequence, after they have robbed him of his possessions and he's traveling on foot and he's exhausted and he's parched and he's desperate.

And it's this really emotionally impactful sequence from the, you know, oh, you've, you've lost your way. Yes, Exchange, which tells you that he's ready to abandon the quest. He is planning on that moment to turn around, to go back, to go home, then something like seeing the axe, as you mentioned, really crystallizing how everything is connected, how all of these figures, on the one hand, are making these crucial life-altering choices. And on the other hand, there are moments where you have to be able to. say, well, are they just like puppets, like the ones we're seeing in the puppet show? And, you know, there are lessons here. Like when he says, if I go in there and find it, what will you offer me in exchange? And she says, why would you ask me that? Like, if he has to reflect upon that, and so do we. Why would he ask her that? You know, true chivalry, that has to be one of the lessons

for him and for the viewers. Like, that does not demand repayment. And also to continue with the discussion about the role of witchcraft and the role illusion and magic play across the movie. In this sequence, I think it really works in terms of, you know, continuing to establish the films like artistry and visual template, you know, the gliding figure, that sudden wash of red in the water, the appearance of the bones and the bed that our guy had just previously been snoozing in, the talking severed head once it rolls to the floor. But also because of these, like the way that these sequences truly, train us to ask if we can trust what we see, you know, which is very important, again,

heading into the ending, like, what is a dream, what is a magic trick, what is really unfolding, and what does the question of reality and realness even mean inside of a story like this? And that's actually like, that's not just subtext. It is overt text here because, you know, he asks, are you real or are you a spirit? And she says, what's the difference? Like, that's one of these fantasy ideas that I love so much. I always find myself talking about, like, readying us for the end here,

interpreting this as we see fit, just as the characters do, because you can find meaning in any interpretation, any way you go, not just inside of one of these choices or one of these moments, but in terms of the overall impact and meaning of one of these stories.

So that's my pick. That's a worthy pick. All right, it'll shock you and everyone to hear we're running well over on time, so we're going to go quickly through the rest here. least favorite part of the movie, if you had one. This is so tiny, and this is a testament to how much I actually like this movie. But literally some of this movie is hard to understand.

The title cards, the font that they use for the title cards, you can't, you can't read it. I saw this on a very big screen, and I was like, what of those words? So that one. It is, of course, like, quite appropriate in terms of the medieval styling, but it is genuinely hard to read. That's my pick as well. Yeah. Not great. Oh, boy. All right. Well, that was a, that was a quick category, which was just what we needed here. All right. Here's a slightly more involved one, but also one that I think we've talked about a lot as we have gone through the other categories. This will be more of a summation, I think.

What is this movie ultimately about to you? And connected to that idea, which of the central themes really stood out to you the most or resonated with you the most? So I'm glad you say to you because I will say that this movie can mean a lot of things. Yes, definitely. For me, it's, there's like sort of a micro, there's a micro meaning and then a macro meeting. On a very specific level, what I took away from this movie is the focus on what makes a man honorable and what makes a man worthy. and then our tendency to try and attain those things easily, rather than putting in the work that is actually necessary for you to become honorable. You know, Garwin is given a lot of shortcuts,

and he's tempted to take them. And for a moment, whether it's real or whether it's imagined, he does take the easy way out. and I think comes to understand that actually doing that is not worth it. And you're going to die anyways, no matter what happens, death awaits you. So, you know, there's no reason to take the simple route. On a larger level, I think the monologue that Alicia Vickander's lady gives in the castle while being absolutely haunting.

And, you know, this is probably the reason why I wanted to take off work is this monologue. Just the concept of nature outlasting man, nature going on after we're gone, I think is a huge part of this movie. And I think it's not natural, but our tendency is to try to enforce our will on. nature and think that we can when the truth is that we are at nature's mercy. Very well put. Very well put. For me, you know, I think like this movie is, of course, the product of a long storytelling tradition is a product of myth and legend, but also like an effort to interrogate those

myths and those legends. You know, one of the things that Larry said to Sean on Big Pick was I really love dealing with archetypes, unpacking archetypes, and you can feel that throughout the movie, like, consider something like the ladies really met a line in the library sequence. They're looking at those gorgeous, like painted books, talking about how much they love to read. And she says, sometimes when I see room for improvements, I make them. Like, that felt like, you know, I mean, I don't know that this is true, but it felt like one of his lines about his vision here.

You know, this is about the quests that we face in life and how often those quests are not about just the roads we travel or the trials that we face out in the world. But the progress that we make internally as people, the ways in which we grow and evolve as human beings and the real worth that we come ultimately to seek and recognize and appreciate. You know, another thing that I stuck out to me from Lowry's interview with Sean was he said, we call it becoming a night in the film, but really what we're trying to say is he's becoming an adult. And that's like a helpful way to unlock a lot of the movie. Like it is a coming of age story. in a lot of ways.

And so many of the themes that are at the heart of a nightly quest here are also presented through the lens of pushing through a state of arrested development. Like our guy, you know, opens the movie just out like again, you know, partying, hooking up, living home with mom still, and no shade at any of that. Like a lot of that sounds really great. But he is on a journey of moving forward into a different stage of his life and figuring out what that entails. And part of that is assessing the weight of expectations. Like, one of the great moments in the movie is when he tells, when Arthur says to him at the Christmas

gathering, make for me a gift, you tell me a tale of yourself so that I might know thee. And he says, I have none to tell. Like, he's looking out at the knights of the round table and saying, I see legends. And the queen says, you know, do not take your place among them idly. Like, these are key motivating ideas, but just as key is, is interrogating those ideas. What you do, if you feel that you have no tale to tell, but that you must find a way to change that, like, everyone is asking all the time if he's a knight yet. And again, this is, you know, this is an update, right? Like, we hear it in the opening sequence out at the, the tavern. You know, when he's talking to Arthur, he says, like, well, you know, your nights, like, they've spelled a lot of

blood for you. Like, surely that binds them to you more closely than the fact that we're just family. Like, this is weighing on him, this sense that he has not achieved this, this representation of worthiness that defines so much of their lives. You know, the impulses that that guide our choices, the impact of the choices that we do make when we make them, the cost of pursuing what we think our destiny or purpose ought to be. You know, when the Lord says to him seeking his destiny across these lands. His reply is perhaps you think I'm something I'm not, but like it's really whether he thinks that about himself

ultimately. You know, the shape that true bravery and true chivalry take is of course one of the things that the movie is about. We already talked about that exchange with Winterfred that sums that up, I think, quite well, as does, of course, the moment with the Green Knight in the chapel where Green Knight calls him out. Like, I didn't flinch.

I didn't show signs of fear. And he says, you have had a year to find your courage, which was kind of like a devastating moment, as is his reply, you know, one year or 100, it wouldn't make a difference. Like, of course, the meaning of masculinity, the pursuit of this ideal, a false ideal, how that can mislead you, the responsibility that we have to our planet, as you just spoke about beautifully, what it means to return to the earth, you know, the value of patience and hard work on the road to virtue, the ways that shortcuts can really undermine

mind that. I loved that sequence where he asked the Giants, hey, you know, which direction are you at it? He asked, can I traverse the valley on your shoulder? But you can't do that. You can't achieve a true awakening by taking or certainly by asking to take a shortcut. You know, and I think the merit of goodness is also at the heart of this story. There's that great exchange with Essel. She's like, why are you doing this? Why do you feel like this is the thing you have to do? This is how silly men perish. she says. And he replies, or how brave men become great. I love to reply to that. Why greatness?

Why is goodness not enough? Like a lot of the heart of the story is tied up in that. There's a lot about dread and then the places that dread can lead us, you know, the sadness, the despair with which he asks, are you certain it's that close when the Lord tells him how near he is to the chapel? That was devastating. As was, you know, the moment when he presents the elk, the Lord presents to Elk and Garwin's like, what is this for? The journey home, like it had never even considered. It had never occurred to him that there might be a journey home. That made me think of Sam and Frodo as well. And the real tragedy of thinking like your demise is inevitable, wanting to avoid that, not knowing how. He talked about the pursuit of honor and, you know,

the shape that worthiness and real nightliness takes it, I found myself thinking a lot watching this movie about Brian from Game of Thrones. Like, I've mentioned Game of Thrones a few times today, But, you know, a Knight of the Seven Kingdom is one of my favorite episodes of Game of Thrones. And Brian and the way that she thinks about knighthood is one of my favorite through lines of the story. And I love how Brian's character allowed us to unlock the fact and the idea that like what really makes somebody a knight as meaningful as the moment of a true knight is and as that title is and what that represents to the people who value it, you actually live. live that truth in so many other ways if you choose to, right? And of course, free will. Our old faith, buddy. Oh, yeah. It's there. A world defined by other people's idea of destiny. You know, what role does free will play when you're operating against a ticking clock? Like,

does that cheapen it? Does it heighten it? I love these questions. I love thinking about this. Like, if the outcome and the path feel fixed, can you be changed by the journey is our duty? Remains would say, can you not be? Like, this is fascinating to assess, and I think definitely one of the things that we'll make, you know, rewatching the movie so rewarding.

Like, the juxtaposition of Garwin saying, I'm here and he is not against the spinning of the wheel, the ticking of the clock, the melting away of the grains of sand. You know, also just like the corollary between the challenge and a prophecy, working to fulfill it, working to avoid it,

opting in to your fate that you then seek to, undermine. Love it. What a rich text. And all of it gets us, of course, to the ending, which we've talked about a few times already, but to put a bow on it, how do you interpret the ending? How does you feel about the ending? So I definitely have hit on this a lot. But I, again, I feel that the montage especially and, you know, especially the end of the montage where he's sort of, he's outlasted his children. He's watched his kingdom fall, basically. And that's the moment when he finally removes the girdle and his head just falls off. And then he snaps back and he removes the girdle again and tells the Green Knight that he is actually ready.

That to me is a realization that death is going to come for him, whether it's 70 years from now, whether he lives a full life or whether it's in the Green Chapel. And so what matters is how he actually faces it. And whether he's going to run from it or whether he's going to remove that girdle and face it like a man, that's the thing that actually matters. That to me is what the ending is all about. Yeah, I agree. Quite powerful. Yeah. Lowry definitely read his interview with Joanna.

a piece specifically about, you know, the ending explained. Check that out. If you haven't. You know, he talked about the ending. He said, quote, I wanted to write an ending where his head gets chopped off and that's a positive thing. That's a happy ending. He faces his fate bravely. And there's honor and integrity in that, but that doesn't mean that he's dead. He's killed. He received the blow that he was dealt and all is set right within the universe of the film. And he also talked to her about how, this was fascinating, how he had filmed a more like, as he put it, definitive ending. But ultimately welcomes the fact that the ending, the movie is open to interpretation, you know, that vision and you went through, you know, all of the steps, his turn is nighting, his reign is king,

but the sadness, like that was what struck me about it, the sadness that defines that life, you know, he and Esol have a son together, but they can't live their lives together or he chooses, he chooses not to let them live their lives together, takes the prince away, that sequence of her crawling on the ground and they leave money in the birthing bed like horrifying. He wed somebody else, but he feels no love. You know, battle ensue and the prince is killed in combat. The walls are literally crumbling around him. His queen gives birth to another child. But then the invaders are pounding at the gate and his doom has come for him again, despite all of his efforts to escape. did those extra years by him?

Despair and shame. And this crippling guilt, when he pulls off the girdle and his head pops off, it's not just that he's loosening the binding that is keeping his head on his neck. It's he's letting himself out of this like cage of lies that has defined the rest of his life in that in that span.

And, you know, again, like the film primes us for that vision because of all of the magic and sequences and foreshadowing that we see throughout. But I just loved the way that that showed us the weight of living falsely and the weight of carrying your shame with you through your life and the way that that would cheap in and corrode what you had thought was glory. But that's really intense. You know, leaving, lying, but then also entering that. decisive moment with the girdle around his waist, the protection in place still. We talked earlier

about the fox and that primer of like, well, remember, basically, like, leave that behind. Because and how he has to reflect around about the fact that as long as that's on his waist, his choice cannot be what it needs to be in the moment where he removes it. And the thrill of flashing back to that present day and seeing. him make that choice, feeling the readiness. When he says, I am ready, I'm ready now and knowing that he actually feels it, like it made me think of the third brother from the tale of the three brothers. And then he greeted death as an old friend and went with him gladly and equals they

departed this life. Like, I just, I didn't, again, it's open to interpretation. You can go any number of ways with it. Like, what happens after it cuts to black? You know, our pal Arjuna wrote this in the exit survey. I feel the same way. It, like, made me think of the Winterford line and that idea of, like, what's real. Like, it doesn't actually, I think, it doesn't actually matter what the answer is.

What matters is that we know that our central character, in that moment, he finally really becomes a knight, right? He has achieved his journey and his growth because he has recognized what real worthiness and what real worthiness and what really heroism looks like. I loved it. Yeah, it's great. I felt a little sadness that there... In the poem, there's sort of like they become bros. They're like, they're like, hey, like, you did it, you accomplished your thing, go live.

And that is certainly not the implication in this version. And I, there is an initial burst of sadness, I think, there that there isn't sort of of like a trap door. But then you do realize that the fact that there is not a trap door is what makes it resonant, what makes it important. So I agree with, I agree that Lowry achieved that sort of happy beheading as, as he would put it.

Yeah, I mean, you think about the exchange with Arthur earlier in the film before he sets out and he says, and if death awaits me, like, that is the true of all the circular renderings in the film. That is the true full circle moment to go from an if death awaits me. me to saying, I am ready. I am ready for this and all that it might mean.

Great stuff. Yeah, phenomenal. 100 free events, 6,000 kids, one mission. Clinic Kids is using sports and evidence-based wellness coaching to help kids build confidence, resilience, and the tools they need for life's challenges and opportunities. Up through August 2026, they're running 100 free sessions for school and community-based organizations near you. Learn more at clinickids.com slash 100kk. That's Clinic with a K. Clinic Kids is registered 5.101.1c3 nonprofit.

Poglandia, my guy. Poglandia! We're just, we're going to spend like literally five minutes on Outer Banks. Here's the truth. We really just, we talk about Outer Banks with each other all the time, and we just wanted to talk about it together for a few minutes here. Because this is Ring orverse, here's the question I'm going to ask you, but it's just an excuse for us to talk about Outer Banks for a few minutes, okay?

Yeah. Is Outer Banks a superhero story? Like, have we two seasons in entered into what I would, here's the comp I'll make and the case for it. It's like the fast and the furious equivalent where, you know, people always like to say like, well, they're like basically superheroes now, right? The things that John B and our pals manage to achieve and start. survive the villains that they face?

I mean, is Rief Cameron Netflix's Aldrich Killian for Iron Man 3? Who says no? What do you think? So before giving my answer, I will note two things. One, at one point in this, in season two of Outer Banks, Rafe Cameron literally yells out endgame. He says end game. Two, there is a moment where they are all,

the pogs are all trapped in a shipping container, I believe. And they are literally saying like, you know, they're trying to basically hijack a large freighter. And they're stuck in this thing. And Pope literally says I've run this scenario in my head a thousand times and this is the only way out. The old Dr. Strange. So there is direct parallels to the MCU

that have to be intentional. They have to be purposeful callbacks. It's clearly a fantasy story. I think we could agree to that. Yes. Mal, this entire story from the start of season one to the end of season two has taken place over about 14 days.

Time has no meaning as you outlined tremendously in your Outer Bank Season 2 power rankings now available for your reading pleasure on Theringer.com. Check it out if you haven't. I'll say this. All superhero stories are different. All fantasy stories are different, right? There's not necessarily just a, you know, three or five or however many characteristics or traits that are ever present. And Outer Banks is ultimately a teen drama, a teen romance, an action-adventure story. but fact that our characters, and I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, are alive, are alive at this point, is the stuff of superhero legend.

It is. You know, there's a team up, right? You have villains who you repeatedly think have died. And hey, not just villains. Characters returning from the dead. Yep. Fairly regularly. Long stretches where, and there's a just a absolutely tremendously entertaining piece on the ringer about exactly this from Jody Walker.

Long periods of time where the characters do not appear to partake in anything resembling personal hygiene. You just have a lot of. questions about, you know, the mechanics and ins and outs of everyday life. And yet, suspension of disbelief. Am I right? This show gets so much better when you start thinking of the Outer Banks as an alternate universe that doesn't accord to the rules that we live by. You know what else? Super healing. Looking at my gal Sarah. Sarah got shot. It was completely fine. I mean, was dead for a few minutes. but then was fine.

Yeah. Just walking around. Oh, my goodness. Bloody jeans. What a special show. What a special show. Anything else you want to say about Outer Banks while we're here? Just that it's an absolute joy.

And it's honestly, I'm not a huge binge watcher. I think you and I differ there. But this show is like the one show that is so easy to watch. watching one sitting, even though it's 10 episodes. You literally, you cannot stop watching it once you start. It is impossible. It is an impossibility. It's so much fun.

And again, as long as you're going into it with the right expectations, you will have the best time ever. It is an utterly bananas viewing experience. I absolutely love it. Andrew's full seal of approval. Andrew, I honestly, I can't wait for season three. I feel like in season 16, these kids are still going to be chasing treasure. They're still going to be wearing converse.

They're still going to be carving P4L into trees and their own legs. And guess what? I will still be watching. I'll be there. I'll be right there. All right, friends, the giants are strolling away from us, which means it is time to wrap today's episode. Thank you as always to our intrepid producer and Quester, Steve Allman, as well as to the other knights of the ringerverse table,

our Juno Ramgapal and TD St. Matthew Daniel for their production work on this episode. Thank you to the Lord of the Memes, Jomi and Denneram, first work on the social for this episode. And thank you to everyone's favorite content scavenger, Andrew Grudadadero, for joining me today. Remember to follow the Ringiverse on Spotify or wherever we get you podcasts. Follow the Ringiverse on our social feeds. And head back into the ring of verse on Monday for our Suicide Squad crossover pod. What if and Bad Batch Talk coming after that? Until next time, you rest your bones, my brave little nights.