The Ringer-Verse - 'The Last of Us' Season 2 Finale Reactions, Plus 'Doomsday' Delay News

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

The Midnight Boys are back to give all of their hot takes on and instant reactions to the season finale of 'The Last of Us.' They take a look at where Ellie's revenge tour leads and discuss what they can look forward to in Season 3. Later, they also react to the news of a delay to 'Avengers: Doomsday' that could clash with 'Dune,' and they talk about whether things are all right in the house of Marvel. (00:00) Intro (04:28) 'The Last of Us' reactions (01:12:27) 'Doomsday' delay Hosts: Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, Steve Ahlman, and Van Lathan Social: Jomi Adeniran Producers: Steve Ahlman, Jon Jones, Jonathan Kermah, and Jomi Adeniran Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner.

Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Ring ofverse This is of course the Ringer's next podcast Feed for All Things Fandom. We are

Steve, the architect Alman, the builder and tinker of things. We are. Jomi, he's a planner at dinner on. You've got questions. He's got answers. We are Old Man Van. Here, the receding, resurgent Hairline, Co-Baby Chuck, the 24-carrier Closer. Together We are known as. I'm from midnight, boys. Also, socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok.

Jomey. The Last of Us is ending, but the summer of content still continues. So make sure you're following us. We're going to cover all the big movies coming this summer. So stay locked in. Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. We're on YouTube, like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boys and House of Our episode on YouTube.com backslash at Ringaverse and also on Spotify. Brammerma! House of Our will also have their deep dive of the last of us. Ready for you soon.

It'll be coming out pretty soon. Maybe immediately. Also on House of Our feed, they will be revisiting Rogue One with special guest Chris Ryan. Chris Ryan is in his Tony Gilroy. and or Victory Lab phase. Yes. What movie were we talking about? We're talking about some movie and we're talking about

whether or not we like the movie and Chris Wayne. It's Gilroy. Of course we like it. Michael Clayton? No, it wasn't Michael Clayton. It was something that Gilroy did. One of the born movies?

Born legacy. The fourth one? Yeah. Born legacy. The one with Jeremy Renner? Jeremy Renner one. He did that one? You already did that.

that. Really? He directed. I'm not sure if you do like to. Oh, my goodness. Gilroy did Born Legacy and we were getting ready to shit on Born Legacy. And Chris Ryan was like, no. How dare you? It's Gilroy. Now, I haven't seen Born Legacy in a while. And I've never seen Born Legacy. I stopped at Ultimatum. Yeah, I think that, wasn't there one that came after that? It was just called Born.

Yeah. Wait, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Jeremy Rainer had stuck up the vibe so much. So they had to be like, oh, yeah, yeah. And then they brought Matt back. Yeah. It tried to hand off two different franchises, Jeremy Renner. Didn't work. Wait, Mission Impossible, too. Yeah.

Yeah, that was tough. Here's the thing. Jeremy Redder, there was a point where Hollywood was just like, this is our new movies. Somebody pops and they just keep going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was the man. It didn't quite work, but look, he stuck around. He's got great movies. Yeah.

Win River. He's Hawkeye. He's Hawkeye. He's hot. He's hot. Only in movies because they're not paying his rate for Disney Plus. We even talk about that. They tried to fuck over, Jeremy Renner.

Yeah. He said, y'all think I'm half a lot. What did he say? That was a great joke. I'm half a person because I got ran over. Also, shout out, bring back to Jeremy Reiner app. You know what I mean? What?

Bring back the what? Jeremy Reiner app. Wait, they took it away? Yeah, I thought so. They shut it down. Oh, no. Don't know what you guys are talking about. And on Wednesday, the Midnight Boys will be giving you our thoughts on Mission

Impossible the final reckoning. Oh, my God. Jomey saw it. I did see it. Jomey? I thought it was great. I don't know how you guys are going to feel about it. But, yeah.

You're a captive audience for it. It could have been terrible and you would have loved it. I don't like MIT too. Who does? I love MIT, too. It's great. But on today's show, we give you our instant reaction to season two, the season two finale of The Last of Us.

I'm sending you guys right now. But on you're about to get into it, okay? Last of us, spoiler warning for everything up to date, only spoiling the game up to the show. We have two gamers. here to game players to Kaisenots to Placboy Maxes to Duke Dennis's

to Aden Ross's We got two game players right here They're not going to spoil the game for you But we will be talking about things that have happened up into the show And we might need Steve to contextualize Some of the things that have happened in the game and comparing them to things that have happened

in the actual show. Spoiler warning We're getting ready to talk about The Last of Us. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. To begin, our reactions, once again bring you the Midnight Manifest,

talking about all the need to know. Relax. All right. This is your Midnight Manifest for the Last Bus season two finale, directed by Nina Lopez Corada, written by Neil Druckman, Haley Gross, and Craig Mason. Ellie makes it back to the theater

and checks on the wounded Dina in our vulnerable moment. Ellie reveals that she tortured Nora, the real reason Abby's group came after Joel. On their way to rendezvous with Tommy, Jesse gets Ellie to reveal that Dina is pregnant and becomes frustrated that she's led them all into this war zone. After a series of philosophical arguments, Jesse and Ellie split ways with Jesse going to rescue a pinned down Tommy and Ellie going off to search for Abby. As the WLF gets ready to attack the Sarafi home base, Ellie travels to the Ferris wheel

supposedly hiding Abby. When she arrives at an aquarium, she finds Owen and a pregnant Mel. When Owen pulls a gun on Ellie, she fires her gun killing Owen, Mel, and their baby. Tommy and Jesse find Ellie and return to the theater. After making a plan to escape back to Jackson, the group is ambush. Abby kills Jesse and has Tommy dead to rights. And then we get a flashback to three days ago from Abby's B-O-V, hinting at the thrust of the third season.

With all of that out of the way, instant reactions for this episode then. Okay, let's start story and get into what we thought about the episode later on. Because I got to let you guys know, you're going to need to take some cover. Third shooter. Let's let's let's let's Grassy no Let's talk shoot Let's talk

Wait so you Tom You Tommy with the sniper You know They got a You got him pinned down You got a pin down He's got him pinned down Okay

Okay So We're back in our main story Yes We had Sort of a breather episode But a Probably the best breather episode

In the history of Of The best one I've seen It a long time Now Charles Did you feel getting back into the story? Did you feel a little pulled out of it?

Or were you like, okay, you're the tension from the last time we saw Ellie and Dina and Jesse? Did it pick right back up for you? Did it take you a while to kind of get back into what was going? Oh, it took me a while to kind of get back into the story. If anything, I felt like this season finale almost reminded me of the House of the Dragon season finale where it's like there was so much story to get to and there was so much stuff to fit in where it almost did feel very staccato and choppy. I think the best example of that is like there's one moment where it's like,

Ellie gets captured by the seraphites and then they're about to kill her. And then their like base gets exploded. They're like, well, we got to go up there. And they drop. And then like Ellie just keeps going to the aquarium or Ferris wheel where I was just like, there's so, like this episode, there's so much happening. And I was just like, where do I latch on? Am I latching on to the Jesse story?

if I'm supposed to be latching on to the Ellie trying to get a revenge? Like what is Which way am I going? So, okay. Yeah. Well, I'm going to get on Jesse. We're going to talk about Jesse real quick or bring the men boys in so we can talk about Jesse in this episode because I felt like he was one of the most important parts of this finale

being that he kind of reoriented things back around what the real stakes of the world are and what actually Ellie is doing and kind of, you know, what Dina's doing. But I will say something about that. scene that you just mentioned with the seraphites and ellie that's a useless scene yes okay so if everybody making the last of us is more talented and more um accomplished than than myself i was about to go third person like a true doucheback uh than me that scene is useless if she is going to be taken in by this is kind of some of the problems i have if she's going to be taken by the seraphites

and then she is not going to be killed, we know she's not going to be disembaled by the seraphites. We know that that's not going to happen. The only tension in that scene is why and how she's going to get away. And for her to get away because of a distraction of something happening back at home, it just doesn't tell us anything about her. It doesn't really tell us anything about them. It doesn't push her story for at all.

It's just something that happens. She just gets captured by the seraphites. She's about to get disembod. She doesn't because of an alert they get through their warning system back at where they are. It just means nothing. Now, if Ellie in some way kills all of them or if somebody recognizes her or if there's something that happens that is story related that makes it to where she escapes this, right? Maybe if they saved the kid earlier and the kid recognized, then maybe that scene means something.

But that's a useless scene for her to just be set free. for like no reason it is i had i the scene i had a problem with was the scene where her and jesse take cover and they the sift the wlf is chasing the serafi kid and ellie's like i'm gonna go save that young boy jess is like no there's six of them there's two of us we have like bigger fish to fry let's not do that and then stirl thing is no he was a kid man we could have taken him it's like yo ellie there are there are there are bigger things at stake and you know this That's even more offensive. We'll come to that in a second.

Talk about Jesse. Jesse's back. He's learning so much in a short amount of time. Right. Poor bastard. Okay. Yeah, real tough. It's like he's learning.

Obviously, he's going to figure out that Dina's pregnant. Dina not trying to drink. Actually, well, it was great that she was like, oh, you're guessing? Oh, fuck. I just said that she's pregnant. All right. So Jesse's back in the show. Did he add anything back into the narrative here?

This is in a way almost his episode in a way. It is. It's really fascinating to see his attitude contrasted like this in the game. Jesse is a lot more of a chill guy in the game. When he shows up in Seattle, this is more of a, hey, Ellie, I'm on your side. I'm not going to let you do this alone. And we're in this together. Let's get revenge for the sake of Joel, rather than dragging those two back with him.

to get back to Jackson, and that contrast really puts into perspective the outright selfishness that Ellie is operating under for most of this time here. And it's my biggest problem with the finale here is that all of this kind of like delayed time of either empathy towards Ellie or consequences that are brought to roost in this finale did not have that much time to like gestate for the lack of a better time. The fact that this game is

like the game is like dozens of hours long and you have the amount of time that you have with these characters it's like the hardest thing that you have like a book adaptation and say like okay well the fans of Game Thrones that are fans of the books like can't nearly get as much out of the show to cover everything that you possibly need. The amount of time that we spend with Ellie and all of the things that she does in the game

are nowhere near as well covered in the show, obviously so. And I think the problem comes in a finale like this where all of these very important things need to happen and everybody's motivations need to be very clear-cut and understandable. And I don't think that it was as successful as it needed to be. They are clear-cut. They're just absurd.

Very abrupt. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's absurd. Okay. Why is just getting... to it, man. I'm watching it just. I'm sorry,

just go for it. Go for it. This was one of the most frustrating, most unenjoyable watching experiences I've had of any one singular episode of television that I have ever watched. Speak on it. Speak on it.

I was furious, furious at so many different parts of this particular episode. And I think that what it is, is to Steve's point, is that there are, things in the game when you've spent hours and hours and hours and hours playing the game that maybe connect you to the characters a little bit more to where you understand some of the boneheaded absolutely ridiculous choices that are made time and time again by Ellie.

Ellie is simply the most unlikable, most unrelatable character that I've ever watched lead a show that I can think of in a while. And I'm telling you something right now, all of this is dangerous to say because there are parts of this that are going to talk about Bella Ramsey. There's going to be a part about this that's going to talk about like women-led

properties. I understand and accept all of that. I understand and accept all of that and I wish that I felt differently. But the reality is, man, we get to a part in this where she's having, what Jesse is telling her, how silly her revenge is and how like totally out of whack

her revenge thing is she brings up the completely impotent situation where he let the kid die which any rational person would do okay any rational person would do that's supposed to be a moral

equivalency between her bringing not that she knew a pregnant Dina drawing him and Tommy out to this entire thing. They're in the middle of a kill box. Right now because of her. Then later on, she gets drop on these two people, shoots the one guy, which she has to do,

shoots the other woman. The fucking reveal that the woman is pregnant. I'm like, yo, what the fuck is happening, bro? Yeah. I'm like, they reveal that the woman is pregnant. I'm like, I literally, I'm like, yo, I'm like, I'm like, bro, this is fucking. terrible.

And there's a it's not it's not only like this is a bad time. This is like this is like this is terrible. Yo man. That's the moment.

If you're going to do that why do we have the whole Sarah fight thing? I'm like if she's going to be pregnant I need a little bit more set up than just a reveal and you get the, I'm like all right man.

Because that's such an important part and it's just. It happens like that in the game. Elliot is like a wrecking havoc. Yes. on the lives of people and nothing about her motivation to do so

is resonating with me enough to go, yeah, cool, pregnant lady dead, gut-wrenching C-section scene where we have to watch this woman die. I'm getting to a point to where, especially since this motherfucker killed 12 innocent people, that there's no rational person that could watch this show

and think that Joel's life was worth all of this. I mean, I was more mad when she's basically like, fuck Jesse when he's like, hey, yo, Tommy's about to get killed. We need to go save him. She's just like, fuck you and fuck Tommy. I need to go. I'm like, I'm like, what? She's like, she's literally saying. Tommy has them pinned down.

Are we supposed to like Ellie? Ellie is fucking crazy. There's three scenes in a row. It's, I talked about the serified scene trying to save the kid. That scene where they're looking over the pier, arguing about Tommy or saving Tommy or getting Abby. there's we talk about the scene a little bit you mentioned it where she where he figures out that Dean is pregnant right yeah and he looks at Ellie in the face and it's like you know how Dina said she can't I can't die I have to go get back yeah to Jackson so I can raise my kid right

and she's like cool let's do that the next scene hey let's go take these guys six on two yeah oh hey let's go get Abby and not go get Tommy like I've thrown Ellie a lot of bail over this season I've on her so much, Bell. I can't defend you, man. Like, what, like, what, what, what are you doing? So this, like, this gets into probably the biggest, like, fork in the road by the adaptive choice between the game and the show that might actually be, in my opinion, the problem with how this finale, like, really demonizes Ellie, understandably so, because she does,

like, all of those arguments that she has with Jesse, true to the game, all the things she does, killing the pregnant lady, true of the game, everything is there. But in the game, both Jesse and Tommy are on Ellie's side to a degree from jump. Tommy doesn't go after Ellie and Dina. Tommy goes ahead of them and leaves Jackson on his own to get revenge. And they find him. Jesse stumbles upon Ellie and Dina being like, hey, I'm not going to let you do this alone.

We're off to go kill Abby. And then after all of these things happen, after finding out Dina's pregnant, after finding out that they've killed another pregnant woman. They decide they want to leave. They're like kind of tiptoeing back. They're like, all right, guys, we're getting like, this is getting hot and heavy. That change completely demonizes her character.

It does. That, you guys, I swear to God, man. I don't know what you're supposed to do. That change makes her character a petulant, plucky, twerp that is getting people killed for a personal, emotional thing that is not at all anchoring. the decisions that she's made, that decisions she's supposed to make with the audience.

And it's, but it's so interesting because your feelings towards Ellie, in the grand scheme of the things with the game, which I can't go further into, are true to how I felt about Ellie come the end of this game. But at this point, it feels like they've rushed all of those feelings

that a viewer might have towards Ellie to know that like, okay, all of these problems are happening now and all of the things that, all the consequences that Ellie has brought us to, she needs to understand that those are bad now and we as an audience need to know that those are worse now, whereas we were kind of like gradually and occasionally abruptly led into them at this point in the story. What, what do you mean?

But because by the time, like, by the time Jesse gets popped in the theater and Abby's got them dead to rights, she's like looming over Tommy and like, she's like, we let you live, you wasted it, pow. the cliffhanger of, okay, roll back the clock Seattle Day 1, now it's Abby's story. By the time we've gotten to that point in the game, we're like, okay, we're in way too deep and everybody to a degree has been on our side

and we're just kind of easing our way out of this situation. So just to be clear, for people who might not understand, the Seattle Day 1 thing is taking place before, or is this, what happens? I assumed Abby, when they go back to Abby Day 1, that is the same as, as, um, Ellie's day one. We're just seeing the three days that happened from Abby's one of it.

Yes. Got you. Cool. Because what it seems like, and I, I don't know about the game, what it basically seems like is Jeffrey Moore, Jeffrey, uh, what you're gonna call it? Jeffrey Wright's character. Isaac. Isaac is looking for Abby because they have this big mission to go attack the Sarah

fights where like all they are, they live. Right. I'm assuming they're going to basically kill a bunch of women and children. And it seems like Abby is just like, I'm hiding out, I'm next up, I don't believe in this. And I guess we're, it seems like the third season, even Catherine O'Hara has basically been like the third season is Abby season from her point of view. It basically seems like we're going to basically see all that. Can't wait.

Team Abby 100%. Like, like, like, like, like, can't wait for the new season. Can't wait. Team Abby more than you could imagine. Wait. So then let me ask me this, though. I think the thing that I was struggling with, that we're all struggling with, is that there are moments where we get Ellie coming to terms with,

oh, I tortured Nora. And she's like talking to Dina. And you could see that wang on her. And then immediately it's almost as if she forgets it. Because immediately she's like, all right, I'm going to go kill these WLF soldiers. Or oh, I'm going to go kill, oh, and did it do, da, da. Or all this stuff where I'm just like, we never. actually have time to sit with how Ellie

feels about her basically becoming a serial killer. Like that's how I ended up feeling where I'm just like, do you have no remorse? It's like you feel remorse for a couple seconds and then you forget it. She wouldn't necessarily have to have remorse for Nora or Norma. What's her name? Nora. Nora. Because Nora was

Mel and a baby. It's almost as if she fucking forgets. Like by the time she's talking to Jesse, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Ellie, you just, Owen, whatever. He pulled a gun on you. I get it. Mel was pregnant and you almost had to perform a C-section And it's almost as if that didn't happen Because the show's just rushing to this fucking conclusion

My thing is this I'm sorry What's the point of making us watch that scene? If she's not going to learn anything And we don't know if she did because then Cuts the black But if we're not going to learn anything from that scene

From her having to If that's not going to be the thing that makes her go Huh Maybe I I am doing something stupid. It's just, at a certain point, this was, I'm like, why am I looking at, like, why am I looking at her, like, running to the fucking wave from Intercellar? It's the same thing. That was a big ass way.

You know what I'm saying? It's like, that just gets her to the, and I get her to go back. Also, when the wave hits her, she gets captured by the Sarah fights, that dumbass fucking scene. And then she goes back on the boat. I'm like, is this the dumbest motherfucker? probably like i think well i mean there's a little difference in the the the male owen scene in the game and the show in the game she like actively kills mel yeah right actually stabs her in the neck in the in the show she shoots owen boom and it nicks it's a stray it's a stray hits her in the

neck right it just like right and so ultimately like like we don't know but she didn't like i don't think she meant to kill her. And both times it's like she finds out like after like shooting or after hurting them that oh, Bell's pregnant. I think that's supposed to obviously like mirror Dina in the trouble that she could, she possibly could get this. Right. And so I get I totally understand what the show is trying to do.

But to all of our points in the moment it's like. Well, can I ask you guys this too? I was also pissed off because this is the second time where we've seen Ellie. go after Abby's group and essentially these motherfuckers get the drop on her twice and at this because like Nora like pops the shape in front of her

and runs away and Owen almost like kills her and she was good with Owen though she gave Owen the business Owen got dotted right right yeah he's like don't try it thing I knew you we were Owen we knew you was gonna do that she's still to me in that moment it felt like it because I'm just like alright

tell them you go over here motherfucker like hands behind your head Like there was a moment where I'm like, Ellie is so bad at this that I can't even like, even when like Joel was doing some fucked up shit, you're like, well, he's a badass.

Like with Ellie, to your point, she's just running around like a petulant child, just fucking killing motherfuck. By the way, this entire thing has me like fuck Joe too, honestly. Hey,

come on, man. Come on, man. If I'm Abby, I'm like, oh wait, so your daddy, your daddy killed 12 innocent people, one of them who had a cure.

And then your dumbass kills two of my friends, a pregnant friend, and is just run around. I'm just like, if I'm Abby, I'm like, you got to. Let me tell you out something. Here's the main problem with me.

Yeah. I'm a regular nigga. When I say I'm a regular nigga, I'm a guy or dude. Just a man. So when I'm sitting down watching something, I'm like, yeah, you know, it's like, yeah, I get it.

Like, I watch Empire. And I'm like, Luke, you should probably stay there and fucking train with Obi-Wan. I thought you're talking about Empire with Terrence Howard. Yeah, I was like, where's this going? That's a rap. Luke, you know, you should probably stay there and train with Obi-Wan and Yel to like finish the training.

Like, I know you got to, I got to go get my friends in. But then, you know, that's who Luke Skywalker is. That's who the character is. He's got to go his friends. Here's the thing, though. Here's a difference. You know, obviously they change them. for no reason.

But here's a deal, though. His friends are alive. So being that his friends are alive, his motivation to go and save them is actually to keep them from dying. In this situation, everybody is fucking dead. At a certain point,

you kind of fucking grow up and cut your losses and be a person. Right. Joel killed all of those people, his daughter is gone. Yes. And Ellie, and look, if he was going to do that, it's fine.

He set up, this is in a, in a fucking world where the fucking, they have actual problems. The spores have gone airborne. It's all of this stuff is happening. These people are being driven to do these incredibly terrible things for the most asinine, like ridiculous reasons. that I've ever heard. And I get that everybody has trauma and I understand it.

And I know, but like, we got one dying pregnant woman. Another dead pregnant woman. We got, like, two of the, the only fucking family you got left, Tommy. Like, your, she don't be thinking about her nephew at all. Give a fuck. You got a kid.

Yeah. And, like, is this character supposed to be likeable? I think, I think ultimately it falls on the writing, really. The more that I think about it. I don't think this is Bella, I don't think. No, no, no. It's not part of the family.

Bela-A-Famsey's fantastic. I'm not talking about- No, no, I would have to say, here's the thing to your point. And once again, everybody who works on the show super, super-talented. With all, like, I like parts of the show, I just think there was a point where I was just like, this is not, to your point, this is not realistic. I cannot, there's a difference

between playing a video game and watching a show, especially on HBO. And I just could not invest in any of their choices. I'm like, there is no possible way that these men, many people would make these many dumb decisions without being like, hey, yo, they're, like fucking Chessie says, we're in a fucking war zone. People are getting disembowed. At any given point, I'm like, Ellie, grow to fuck up.

She's incapable of seeing the bigger picture, like, at all. And that's, all of your feelings are, like, true and valid, and all of those things are kind of in line with kind of the message of the game and the story that happens. But as a, like, compelling. as annoying though. It's not that bad. And as a compelling episode of television, I think it kind of failed at that to be actually driving those things home without having any empathy for our main character, while she subsequently cuts off her empathy to every single thing that happens around her with only kind of marginally coming to Jesus like at the very end of something

and then only to be cut short. And then cliffhanger ending, we got to reset the car. It also is frustrating too because Dina throws her bail. Jesse throws her bail. Tommy throws her bail. No matter what she does, so no matter to what Ellie does, they're like, Jesse's the ultimate homeboy, you know?

Get to go pregnant. It's like, yo, I know that that's, you know, we had a thing, but ultimately you feel a certain type of way about her. Hey, I get it. Now, he said he's like, I didn't go with my true love. Exactly. That's not a Canadian player, you know what I mean? But even that, though, to be honest with you,

I'm a feminist. So. All the best. All the best ones. All right. What are you about to say that? What are you about to say, man? Having him be the pragmatic,

focused, a leader who is putting duty and honor and, you know, duty and honor, whatever, ahead of all of his actual feelings and the safety of other people and all of that and having her be the emotional

half-cocked like right those are very to me anti-progressive archetypes of men and women and I am surprised right that in a scene where you have him coming in and saving the day and preaching to her about the bigger picture preaching to her about what safety and what folk and what leadership means that they're going to have her occupied a space where she just goes, no, my feelings were hurt so everybody has to be in danger. That's an odd choice.

And it's so odd because, again, I hate to keep referencing the game, but, like, Jesse and Ellie are way more chill with each other. They're way, no, they're way more... But it's, like, it makes more sense for the sake of the story that they were telling in the game because of the fact that, like, They all happen upon that realization that they're in too deep.

Jesse, when he finds out that Dina's pregnant in the game, he's like, okay, like, we'll back up here. And she, he like makes a bid to Ellie to be like, Dina's not going to live, like, leave without you. I understand what you guys are going through. Like, in a weird way, like accepting like a another chair in this like weird messed up family that they might be having when they have a confrontation about this in the theater. But instead in this, it's like, okay. you're being, and like, it's understandable because everything that has been leading up to the show, as far as Ellie's attitude about this is concerned, he's right to act the way that he does. I just, I'm so curious as to why this choice was made, I guess, for the sake of time,

but only to really be the detriment of our main character and then everybody else around her being like, you're fucking up and this is all your fault, rather than a community of people who were wrapped up in, of the same feelings that she has, all realizing just before her. I mean, is there a level of this show where, to me, Jesse, like, I love Jesse's character. I love that he was in this. But him, Tommy, Dina have started to feel like MPCs to me,

and a lot of this has started to feel like fucking cutscenes, where it's like, instead of us learning about Jesse and, like, maybe seeing him go to rescue Tommy. and like seeing Tommy and Jesse go after the two of them and see any of their storyline. Basically what we get is Ellie fucks up. Jesse or Tommy comes in to save them. Literally we never see like,

we never really see anything about their internal struggles or their life that's not centering her. And I get that in the video game you're playing as Ellie. So that makes sense. But in this, I started to feel as if I was just like, you're kind of doing a disservice of. the other characters because I'm just like, and maybe I'm Andorpeilled now, but I'm like, I would have liked to see more of Jesse's story. I would have liked to actually see more of his

scenes and more of Tommy. But by the time Jesse gets popped, it just makes me hate Ellie Moore and not in a good way in a way where I'm like, I don't actually want to watch another season of this. Like I'm so kind of just kind of like done with this character and annoyed with this world. And I'm like, why would I want to follow either? Like even Abby, I'm like, why would I want to follow these two? Like what they're fighting for is so fucking dumb. The Abby thing I'm kind of with because, I mean, I spent like a lot of this season asking why is Abby in charge? Like, why do they follow Abby so blindly? We finally have a moment here where Isaac is talking to one of the WLF leaders.

And he's like, all those people out there, they're sheep. Abby is an actual wolf. She's somebody who, like she's like the Jesse of Seattle. Yeah. She's next up. And so, like, I finally had that. But at the same time, I was like, to your point. she's still in the same little beef with with Ellie.

Like, this doesn't help anybody, right? I understand like, killed the pops. We got Joel 1-1. You take it back to the crib like that. Hey, a draw. Hey, we had a good time. Now, like, Jesse had to get God. Melanone.

Like, at what point do you, like, both look at each other and go, hey, man, there's a lot of bloodshed, man. Let's call it. I don't know. I don't think I can sit around, wait, again, wait another three years to watch a whole season of Abby doing another thing. Only to end another season. Let me tell you something.

I'm going to get a fucking tattoo of Abby. Okay. Now, not Abby's biggest fan right here, man. Team Abby. You should really play the game. I don't give a fuck. I'm not fucking with that shit. I'll never play it.

Like, I'm hate watching now. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, at least Abby. Now, Abby made the same. dumb as trek to get revenge as well. Sure. Right. But at least Abby,

at least Abby had a legitimate fucking reason. I gotta be honest with you. Ellie doesn't? No. Not anymore.

No. She doesn't have a legitimate reason. She doesn't have a legitimate reason. So she never did? Well, can we, if we go rewind back, was it a mistake in the last episode? Because it's a little bit

ambiguous in the game, whether Ellie would have actually been the cure. Now that I think Druckman Druckman and Mazin, I think more so Mazen has basically been like the story choice to be like, no, actually there could have been a cure.

He's come out and said that's like a change that we made. To your point, I think that fundamentally changes the story because now I'm just like, why am I rooting for Joel or Ellie anymore? Because when I'm looking at this now, I'm just like, both of them have made some of the dumbest decisions And when I look at what Abby's done, I'm just like,

guys, I get that Joel loves Ellie. It's important. I understand this. He went on a bloodthirsty rampant. Call it, call it booty, man. No rush. To a fucking hospital. And it's another thing.

So with the fireflies, let's say, don't they have to show us the fireflies like experimenting on human beings? or something like that. Were they doing any of that? They were trying and failing. I know, but don't they, because, like, he went through a, he went on a bloodthirsty rampage, through a hospital,

killed a whole bunch of people for one person. Yes. Because if I get it, I understand it. It was a beautiful relationship. They fucking play the guitar jam sessions together. Yeah. All that kind of stuff like that, right? They saw the guitar.

They saw, they, it's, I get it. I understand it. But when them people come looking for revenge, it's like, I might. nigga. Like, I mean, like, when they come looking for revenge, it's like, Hey, hey, hey, you remember Kill Bill? Yeah. When that little girl gets old and comes looking for the bride, we can't cry for the bride. No, we can't. We get why you did that, right?

But the little girl seeing you kill Mama in front of her. By the way, the little girl at a certain point, if she found out what her mom did, just to let you know, she came in in the wedding and killed, see if I found out some shit like that, thank God rest of the soul. See if I find out some shit like that Hey just let you know Pops walked in, murdered everybody in the fucking church at a fucking wedding Kill pregnant lady

I'm gonna be like nah that nigga Okay you know what? Yeah You gotta go Alright Okay okay You got me yeah You know what John Joel

Because we can still be friends But like but but But really You just get into a point of more Up in the stakes of terrible shit Yeah Yeah And who's gonna say it now

And that's ultimately the point That's the whole point of the story. Like, same with seraphites and the WLF, like the most recent reason, the cyclical nature of revenge and all of these things that ultimately will just end in death and destruction. They're not doing it well. I understand that.

And I agree. They've given me the pluckmaster. Well, and... Ellie reminds me of when Damien, do you remember when, like, Damien was introduced to Batman? And the rest of the Robbins were like, Hey, yo, this nigga is fucking killing people. He got a sword.

He got a sword. They're like, you know, Bruce, dude. do something. And Bruce is like, nah, that's my son. That's my son. He's like, no, it's my son.

Jamie beats the shit out of Tim Drake. He's like, I'm your son too. But he's like, yeah, but he's blood. That's all I feel about Ellie. I'm like, think about it. If I'm Abby, I'm like, oh, so let me get this straight. So, yo, daddy kills 17 people and is a serial killer.

Now, you killing pregnant people coming up in my hood and shit. I'm like, I'm doing a service to the world. Right? Yeah, you get your, you know, because right now, if we really think about it, Ellie is up three, two on Abby right now. So Abby got to get one more. It's not the finals.

No, no, no. Well, you got it first to four, right? So ultimately. First to four. Right. And then they call it quick. A swing game six right here. Right.

We have an Abby's home turf. It's either Ellie get the job done in six or we go to a game seven. Right. So Ellie, Abby's got Jesse. Jesse and Joel. Jesse and Joe. Yeah. And she's got Nora, Mel, and, uh, Owen.

Jesse fucking did. I knew what was happening. I knew it was happening because the whole episode and this is also a problem I have about the writing. Am I being the dick? No, no, no. I felt the same way in the game. Jesse being dick.

Come on, man. You didn't see that shit because the whole episode, he's just like, I can't die. I can't die. I can't die. I'm like, even the last thing he says, he's like, yeah, I'd come and save you. I know you do the same.

I'm like, Ellie would not do the same. I'm like, Ellie would not do the same. I'm like, Ellie would. I'm like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was. like, not only are you lying, we saw she wouldn't do the same, because the minute she had to go say Tommy, her uncle, her uncle who is alive, she's like, nah, he'll be good, you got this. You know what? You know what the name of this show could be? This is, this show shouldn't be called The Last of Us. This show could be called mad bastards. Because it's a bunch of mad fatherless people. Okay, all right. And all this behavior

And all we're doing is bastard making throughout the entire show. Like now, Jesse got a little bastard. Like, they're going to be mad. But what's going to piss me off is, is she going to raise? Right now,

is she going to raise Dina, help Dina raise Jesse's kid? Because if I'm the kid and I grow up, like, how did my dad die? You're not going to believe this. This is crazy. He said, well, he got shot in the face.

And it was my fault. They're going to say that. You can't say that. Why? Why? If Dino goes back to Ellie, tell the kid the fucking truth. Right.

Or the kid's going to find out in some other way. And then he's going to go on a bench tour. And then it's going to be the kid versus Ellie. And I'm sick of this. If you're still wrong about it. This has to stop. He said Tommy. Tommy doesn't die because they're Tommy's son is going to be like,

now I've got to go out of Ellie. Tarene's a bunch of mad. And now these. These are bastards of color, by the way. Now we're making Bastards of color. Now we got Tommy's little

mixed kid and what, Mexican black? And then we got Mexican Asian with O.T. Tommy? Yeah.

O.T. Tommy is crazy. Oh, man. Hey. Yeah. Somebody got to stay alive to raise these kids. These kids are raised by the homophobic

dude that's serving the sandwich. Yeah. Like he, The homophobic chef, like he going to be raising all of these kids. The Jesse death, and again, in the game and in the show, is so unceremonious. He don't even get like a moment. He, like, get shot.

She goes, Jesse, you see his dead body? That's that. And that's that, ladies and gentlemen. Also, is Abby? Is Abby the fucking dark night? How does one woman keep getting a drop on y'all like this? She's the best we ever seen. Like, God, damn.

She's built different. She's built different. You know what? We have to talk about it. She is the Dark Night. She's the Batman of this show. She is. She's the Batman of this show.

So, Ellie the Joker? She's, yeah. Like, Abby has a righteous cause. She's capable. She's a born leader. Like, she's the Batman of this show. I will say that. People talk about the brutality of the character in the game.

Mm-hmm. And I haven't played the game. But from what I heard that if she brolic as fuck, yes, because I saw a picture of, and this is not anyway, I saw a picture of Brock Lesnar's daughter on Twitter, and people were like,

this is what Abby is supposed to look like. Brock Lesnar's daughter is clearing this entire fucking room, by the way. She's a wrestler, you see her? Yes, yes. I saw the same image. She was going to shop, right, or something at a college or whatever.

Bro, that's what I'm talking about. Way to go. She out there, doing her fucking thing. I mean, this is going to go bad in like five seconds, but it's like,

but, but so apparently she's supposed to be a big, brolic, destructive force in the game, whatever. That's just not how

she's coming off in the show. I mean, she's coming off of somebody that was heartless to Joel, but I get it. But also,

you compare to the Batman. Batman doesn't kill people. So how do we consolidate that? I mean, I don't know. Zach Sider, Snyder. He was,

he was, he was stabbed. He was, he was, Listen, you I don't like it. But that scene in the warehouse that was gas.

Real quick, I was made, I made, I made in a league to watch it a couple of days ago it's just, it's just better than you guys thinking. It is.

No, no, that scene is amazing. Not that movie, though. I'll give you, they got scenes. That fight scene is amazing. But even,

but even Ben's good. Ben is so good. Ben's so good. He's so good. He was so good. They gave him a lot of stupid stuff to do. Yeah. But I'm going to be honest,

the, uh, chasing. in the Batmobile where the Batmobile is ripping through. What he's killing me? When he's got just like a Shunning people down. Even when Superman like comes down

and like lands and it hits. Yeah, hits the Batmobile? It's lit, bro. So I got, so we'll get back to the last of us. But here's my thing. Batman Batman is really brave, bro. Yeah. Because we watch that movie. The movie makes no sense. No. The cut that came out makes absolutely zero sense. But the cut. The ultimate edition. Actually makes sense. Well, that's the only edition available now.

They don't got the regular joint. They only got the ultimate edition. Well, though, they played the regular one on TV. Oh, I'm not watching TV. I'm going on. The TNT version? HBO Max, Max, whatever they're calling it. But, like, I just, every time I see it, I just get more respect for Batman.

Yeah. You standing in front of Superman. Like, imagine me right now in front of John Jones, right? Or somebody like that. And I'm just looking at John Jones, like, nigger, do you bleed? You will. You will. And John Jones, what?

What? Consider this mercy? Because, yeah, he just continued his mercy. And I'm like, bitch, I don't need your mercy. What's happening with you? You know? And Superman just allows Batman to talk to him like this consistently throughout the movie. Yeah, because Superman's not a pussy.

Maybe Superman just, Batman knows the Superman has the code and he's not going to do anything. But what if he just catch Superman on a bad day, just knock your head off? I mean, that's the danger, right? He's talking to Alfred. It would never happen because Batfleck is prepared. Okay? Yeah, he was flipping tires in his basement. That's why.

He blew in the rope, the CrossFit. The thing that like actually and then we'll get back to last of us, Corn Sweat and Pattinson could they ever give us what what Bat Fleck and Cavill did just in terms of like, hey yo, Batfleck ain't going like in terms of like a fight where I was just

like, dog, these two are fucking Brock and both of them are too rage baity. They're too mad. Batflick is packing Robert Patton's up. Are you fucking... Did Robert Benson even have hands in that movie? Yeah. Yeah, he did. At the beginning when he was finding him goons at the beginning.

He was having trouble with some fucking, like, 16-year-old fucking... That was year one. I hate to say this, but Robert Pattinson is an Edward-ass Batman, man. No, man. He's an emo. He is. But that's the point. And here's a thing, too.

We've been seen through the trailers. Cornswet began his ass kick, too. Him and Patton be getting their ass kick in these movies, bro. I mean, they have to, right? It would be one thing if they were just solo and dudes, the whole thing, there's no interesting. All right, bro. You know.

Come on, get in the gym. I got some steroids for y'all. Like, let's... Stories for Superman? What? Who needs steroids? Superman? The last dude who needs steroids?

This nigga is down so bad. He has crypto saving him every other scene. Like, you need to get in the gym, bro. I can't wait. It's a crypto movie to me. Yeah. So it's Abby's tat and then crypto right here. But you take it in a fight.

Abby or Superman? At this point, Abby. But look, I'm... I... Perhaps we will get more that rounds out Abby's character and makes her into what she seems to be in the game. My whole point was that in the game, it seems as if you get enough. I read something that said that Abby is one of the most effective video game villains that's ever existed because of how fucked up Abby is and how much brutality you see. There is merit to that, yes.

Right. They just haven't done it yet. And maybe they'll do it next season since we're going to get a lot more of her. but I really feel like this whole season is anchored and undergraded by the fact that you just have to believe and not only what Joel did at the end of season one but the Abby and Joel relate, excuse me, the Ellie and Joel relationship, which so much has happened,

so much has happened that as a viewer, in a serious way, it's difficult for me to remain emotionally loyal to that when I'm seeing there be so desperate of a cost. So can I ask you this? Because I was thinking, it seems like we're most likely getting four seasons. I was like, is the fundamental flaw of this

that because they are stretching the fucking cookie so much? Jesus. Oh, God. Oh, my God. Yeah. No, you got to. That's on you. Yeah, that's on you.

That's on you. Is that a phrase? That's on you. You got to own that one, Chuck. You got to own that one. Jack Napier or Dred or something like that. Get out of here. That's tough.

Anyway, I'm so sad now. I think by the end of season three, what we'll realize is, yo, if Abby. Stretching it. Oh, my gosh. Deadwin beat. I'll be gentle. Nicky, this is why they go to the House of Bar, bro.

because you can't be serious. Can we be adults, please? Can we be adults, please? Can we be adults, please? I'll be, listen to them. But I'm saying, can we be adults? Crazy. Stretching that.

My motherfucker. It's made to stretch. It's got to stop. Can we? Cut his mic. Cut his mic. We're stretching the croissant. Oh, wow.

French. We la la. Wee. You're not healthy. Wee. Just we. Cuis. song.

Chocolate for some. Yeah. Chocolate. All right. I'm done. Are you not? I'm doing. Please.

I promise. I'm sorry. Good? I apologize. I apologize. Anyway. I'm assuming we are going to get enough information about Abby that is going to reveal that if you're the second up, like the next up to lead these people, you're

killing kids. probably and women and children. This is a war. And we're probably going to see some of that brutality that you're talking about. But to me, would it have been effective in just a season of TV?

Where it's like we are seeing Ellie, we're seeing Abby, and we are seeing how they are both like different sides of the same coin. Because to me, this show, the failing of the second season is they're constantly hiding information. They're constantly not showing you what's happening. And they're just like, oh, you have to wait until the next season to get this.

And I'm like, no. I'm not going to care in fucking three years. Like, just give me the story. Don't try to stretch all this shit out. They somehow do that and also show too much. Yeah. Because so I don't know if we thought about this last week. We might have mentioned it.

The scene with them at the porch where they taught where Ellie is like, I can start to forgive you. Yeah. Is the last thing that happens in the game. It's the very last scene. It's the very, not the. the very last thing. More or less the last. But like Burma's more or less the last thing. What I mean the last thing in the game? It is the last thing

that you see in the game. Like period ever? Uh, like one or two things happen. Like it's the end of the video game? Yes. It's at the end of the game. Oh my God. That, bro. That makes sense. Right. That that makes sense. What doesn't

make sense is for that to happen and then for there to be no actual emotional understanding that comes from it. Because if you accept that he did that, then you have to, there's so much of that that you have to take on that I'm not so sure

that, okay, go ahead. No, no. You're absolutely right. That's the point I was trying to get to is that that's the last thing. And so they're giving us so much of Ellie and Joel to where what does she learn from that?

Like at the end of the game, she, I don't want to, again, I don't want to spoil anything. Don't spoil nothing. I'm going to spoil nothing. And again, you're like, okay, this explains so much of who she, like, why she did what she did and why she became who she became. If it happens at the end of season two, it's like, cool, now I get why you went to Jackson, but why are you still a dickhead? And that's, and I, I didn't, I didn't anticipate how much of a mistake that would have been. I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't say really last week why that could be a mistake. But especially with a finale like

this having a scene like that in episode six where Ellie and Joel more or less piece it up like they do on the porch having that happen so soon take that out that was neighborhood crib I don't know why you don't want to get gang affiliated I don't know why I did that I apologize I just threw up neighborhood crib for no reason I'm not you're not affiliated shout out to my nigga LJ but he's like Kisenat where you just like throws up like six signs I apologize I should have never I should have never done that okay well I mean now you you can be your neighborhood crib I'm not

in any way affiliated with any Cripset. Well, you just threw the upsets. I don't know. Shout out to my nigga, LJ. Say, no, no. You just threw up the sons. I didn't. I don't know why I did it.

It wasn't. But you did. This actually has to come out of the fire. No, but you did. I would be killed. Man, I'm taking off. Take it off. I don't know why I did that.

That's a real herb-ass. I don't know. And that has to stay in. I don't know. It has to stay in. I don't know. I swear to God. I swear to God.

It's cool, though, man. Look, we love you. Getting affiliate in your guys. I'm not at all. Clearly you are. I'm not all. I got niggas. I got niggas from stop y'all.

Seriously. I'm in an L.A. I respect these niggas. I respect all the games. I'm in all the gangs. Yeah. I'm with all of them. I don't know why I did.

I apologize, Steve. Okay. Well, what's I say? Neighborhood. Crip Lathan, man. I'm not. I'm not, bro. They got serious enemies.

I'm a regular. What were you doing? Why did you do that? That shouldn't have never happened. If y'all want to catch Van, he... Drop the pin. Damn. Oh, man.

But no, like having a scene like that at the end of that episode, now immediately contrasted with a finale like this, feels really out of whack with what... Completely. With what any lesson we might have had coming towards Ellie near the end of where the story brings us. and it's an adaptive choice that really undercuts the immediate thing that follows it, which is a finale that kind of puts Ellie at its,

at her lowest when it comes to being at all relatable, understandable, or somebody to empathize with. And it's very tough because the show feels like it's actively rooting against her. And I'm really curious to know what a season three does to at least like bring those two whole. So in the game, there's no assault on Jackson. No. That's what I'm talking about. So they have the assault on Jackson in this show.

At the end of the day, it's just TV stuff. And what I mean is just TV stuff is it seems as if, once again, everybody that's working on this is so much more talented than accomplished. Whatever. But it seems as if we're giving you stuff to put it on television, and it was and it was breathtaking. Spectacular. It was breathtaking.

However, that human toll then complicates her leaving even more. Right? If something else happens and, you know, they find themselves out there where Joel is killed

and it's Ellie and Dina and whomever else, you know, whatever. But her leaving after that happens to the place that she lives. And then you listen to Jesse say, yo, my allegiance to Jackson is that I was raised in Jackson,

the people in Jackson took me in, and I feel a duty and an obligation to them that supersedes any personal vendettas that I might have or even a sense of humanistic decency that I might feel to intervene for everyone that's in trouble anywhere. Like these are the people that I have an allegiance to. This is why I do the stuff that I do.

When she leaves after that, she gives the bullshit speech, which was a good speech, but, you know, which was her laundering the actual reason why she's actually going. It just makes all of it meaningless. To me, it makes the decision that she makes even harder to understand.

it makes Jesse's death more tragic than Ellie's existence. Yeah, and it's so weird because... Like, Jesse being dead is more meaningful than Ellie actually being alive at this point because he represented exactly what you would want to have in somebody to rebuild a society in a situation like that. And she represents a half-cocked hyper-emotional... troublemaker who is exactly what you don't need for people to get back into a situation like into a situation where everything can be okay. And the theme of the story like says exactly

what you're saying. It's the fact that Ellie cuts herself off from that level of community, that level of responsibility and connection between not just one person in Joel, but everyone. The only person she chooses to care about is Joel for all of her twisted reasonings and all of her poor justifications for doing so. It's why he's like he was my community. You might have Jackson. I just had him. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

And as bad as all of that is, the cut off from there leaves her and Jesse more opposed than they've ever been in that story. At the same time, though, I can make an argument, and that's very well said, by the right, I can make an argument that there's some ambiguity even to that because she's straight up ratified. Joel out and made his life harder.

I'm not saying that Joel was doing the right thing. I'm saying that in this show, the repeating recurring theme and happening is our main characters choosing themselves. That's difficult for me to wrap my head around in the situation that they're in. Yeah. Like, she think,

anyway. I don't want to belabor it. Like, this show is obviously in a lineage of prestige TV. And I think what Ellie, like, you can actually now put her, not in terms of like quality

maybe, but in terms of story, where when we've talked about this all season, Tony Soprano, Don Draper, all of these characters where they're all just as selfish inherently as Ellie. But there are some, something about them, Tony is smart.

Like, there's a reason why he's like, he won't fuck his family though. He won't fuck. He has, he has morals where he has like a code. He has certain things where it's just like, when Tony crosses a line, it means something because we've got an episode being like,

oh, this is actually a fundamental breaking of who he is. Same thing with Walter. Same thing with Don Draper. And I think where this story fails for me is that it never actually establishes, like Ellie. as a character, not only her motivations well enough, but like what's the line for Ellie?

What morally, what is the thing where I can relate? She's not likable. She's not good at her job. She's selfish. And at every given point where I'm like, as a character I can understand, she does something that's just so like half-cocked and petulant that you're like, she doesn't have that thing that. And maybe that we're talking to the like, we give male characters a lot more grace, I think,

to be evil, especially what. And I couldn't agree more. Definitely. But I do think that there is something in the show where I was just like, we needed to see more of Ellie being like, all right, what is actually my line? So when she crosses it, we're just like, oh, okay, I get it. There's only one more thing. This is the apocalypse.

And the stakes are just so much higher. Yeah. Tony is, you know, a megalomaniac, a sex addict, all of that stuff, right? Walter sort of finds his manhood in Heisenberg. He was, you know, a genius who his genius was sort of being used

in, I think being as smart as Walter White is and being a high school teacher is amazing. But he was kind of wasting away literally and he finds his manhood in Heisenberg. Draper is a man of his times. being that, you know, where this sort of, he's cosplaying as this master of the universe. I'm not as familiar as that character.

Him, like, I think what, when I said there's a lineage, I think a lot of these prestige TV shows, and I think Joel and Ellie are right there, are always questioning, like, the philosophical questions of, like, can people change? Like, if it's between choosing myself and choosing the larger good, most people are going to choose themselves.

And I do think that this story, and you said it so eloquently, is about revenge and is about like the type of destruction that happens when you choose yourself instead of sacrificing for the whole. It's just like because we've actually never seen Ellie in the show to me in a in a nuanced or good enough way kind of grapple with that because it's always she's just like yelling at people saying, fuck you, fuck you. I'm going to do whatever I want.

There's just so much less to hold on. I agree with you. I'm saying here that the. Apocalypse scenario changes the calculus for me a little bit. Okay. When I think of apocalypse

characters, I mean, Snake Pliskin ended up doing something pretty selfish, right? But when I think of, like,

when I think of, when I think of apocalypse characters, I think of Eli walking through the thing to get the fucking Bible book to San Francisco

and trying to keep it out of Gary Oldman's hands. It just, it just, you put these characters in a scenario where, if it's fighting for humanity

or fighting for a community that is up against the winter that is up against the zombie that is up against like so many dude the flu could rip through Jackson and kill everyone right? So like it's

like when you put those stakes on it and it's fate of the world, fate of the galaxy, fate of this, fate of that, that changes the calculation of how much bullshit I'm willing to put up with. If Tony Soprano is doing all of this stuff and it's whatever, it's for the family, he's a mob guy, he's essentially evil.

So you're doing, it's the inverse. You're working to find the humanity in him. So you're saying, oh, my God, he beats up people. Oh, but he loves his family. Can't be that bad, right? This is opposite. This is, she loves her dad, but she's doing so many stupid things in his name

that it's subtracting. from it. But can I ask you this? I feel, but I feel like something like Game of Thrones did this very, very well where it's like

what made that so compelling is John is just like, hey, yo, this throne, everything y'all fighting for is bullshit. It's the end of the world. We need to band together and help.

And you're watching everybody snake each other, stab each other in the back. You see Aria, you're like, yo, Aria's on this revenge mission. She reminds me a lot of Ellie.

And it's just like, hey, there's more important shit happening right now. Yeah. We need to save the world. The walkers are coming. And I think what Game of Thrones did so well is that they, like, they showed you that, like, at the end of the day, because it's a very realistic thing where it's just like, the world

can be ending. There could be global warming. There could be wars. There could be a nuclear apocalypse. And people are still going to try to fight over the most meaningless shit even even then. And I just don't think that the Last of us has done a very good job of locating Ellie as a character within that. Because I do think that it is a very human thing. thing to be like, I don't even care if it's the end of the world. I'm still going on this revenge mission. I think that is actually a very true emotion. It's just when you get pregnant people killed, when you get innocence killed,

when you're not thinking of anybody, when you're just being a brat about it, I'm not watching. I can't watch it. It's not selling tickets. Yes, just not. Midnight meter. All right, guys, we can get through this very quick. Y'all know what the midnight meter is 1 to 12, 1 to 10.

normal one being absolutely terrible 10 being amazing 11 and 12 hours are for absolute game changers we're gonna start with the midnight uh with the mint boys on wait because we didn't do we didn't do last of us on midnight boys originally because i was gonna ask what did we give the season one what do we give season one oh that was like a i would have given that like a strong eight or nine sick i would have given season one an eight or nine so probably would have given it a nine So what are y'all given season, season two, Jomey? What's how with you? Man.

This hurts because I thought it started off really strong. I think that there's a lot of, despite everything that we said, you know, in this last, like, hour or so. I think there was some good in this season, but ultimately, I think the writing lets it down so, so, so, so much. And so I think I got to go with the seven fellas. I think it fell off a little bit, which unfortunately because this is a really great and grand story, but ultimately I think just some of the, like,

the main reason why we're here is, you know, it's not really, it's not really the same no more. It's a seven for me as well. There's a lot of good in this season. I'm really, really happy with a couple of the decisions that they made from an adaptive standpoint, especially early on. in the season.

But again, the amount of things that they needed to, the checks that they needed to cash come the end of it really fell apart at the end. And I hate to be a slave to just one episode. All right. God damn. All right. Set yourself up. That's twice now.

That is, yeah. That was tough on me. That's all right. Slavery talk. What set should I throw up to make up for that? Wow. Hey, you want to throw a three? Throw up right now.

Oh, throw a pover. Okay. I put the threes up, man. All right. You will be killed by everyone in town. And then we're going to have to be fucking Ellie. Can you imagine if we just go on a rampage? He's like, you've got to get it back and walk.

You got to get it back and love. Shout out to T-Rill. Shout out to Slam for Steve, man. Shout out to smacked them some tough-ass niggas. Because they got some enemies, boy. The Hooves got some enemies. I like it. I never met a Hoover I didn't like, though.

Go ahead. I love them. We got to get you a Houston Astros hat, man. Oh, okay. Wear that around time. Yeah. That's tough. All right.

But yeah, it feels like it starts to fall apart. Even though the penultimate episode was amazing and incredibly well executed. And if that, if the energy that came in from that penultimate episode carried throughout the rest of the season, this would be an 11 for me. But instead, there were a lot of rough patches, especially at the end. So it's a 7 for me. I'm going 7 to. It's too well made. Too well acted for it to be anything less than that.

It gave us the Jackson episode was fantastic. The attack on Jackson episode was fantastic. The penultimate was fantastic. The rest of the stuff was good. The rest of the stuff was good. This finale, this would have been at 8. This finale pissed me the fuck off. I'm not going to bullshit you.

Right. Like, it did. It did. Is this better or worse than the House of Dragon season two finale? It's better? No, no, no, excuse me. No, it's worse. Way worse.

It's way worse. Excuse me. Like, worse, but I was equally pissed when we didn't get the fight at the end of the- Yeah, but I was like high-tier wheel spinning rather than like, oh. Yeah. But I'm also talking that up to the game, like HBO instead of giving them eight episodes instead of 10. I mean, this was also, we have to be fair. This was also affected by the strikes.

By the way, I am still excited to watch the last of us next year. Hey, your favorite. I'm not. They are, they are, well, they got a, they got a, a, a, can farm inside of Lumifield? Is it confirm that season three

is coming out next year? I don't know about that. It needs to come on next year. It needs to come on next year. It needs to come on next year. We really need to come on next year. I'm not waiting three years to watch. I'm still excited to,

but this is a seven. It would have been an eight. Could have been as high as a nine maybe if they would have really given me something in the finale that I really loved, but it's a seven. Uh-huh.

I'm going to give it a five And I just think I'm You aren't fucking with it from the beginning now I just think like It just feels like I got a part one And I'm waiting on the part two It doesn't feel like I got a full season of TV It feels like they wanted to like

And I get it yo HBO Like they have a hit on their hands They want this to go on forever I understand that But like the feeling that I got was I'm like Yo there's so much good in this But it feels like just for other reasons Instead of giving me a full story

Then I can sink my teeth into, they're just like, all right, we got two more seasons. Y'all got to wait on. And I'm like, the five is less a quality indicator in terms of like, to your point, I liked a lot of the episodes. I liked a lot of the moments. But if I leave this season being like, I got half a story,

I'm just going to walk away feeling disappointed and pissed. And I feel like I got half a story. Not to break the meta, but I love that the Charles minus two thing is like a real bit. Yeah, it's your score minus two. I love it. It's like the regular score minus two. I love that, like, we stand by that. Not even on purpose.

Not just how it goes. I'm going to be honest. I came in here one to give it a seven and Van being as pissed off as he was reminded me how I pissed off

I was. I told you guys in the text. I hate Emily. I'm like, I hate it. I think if you played the game, you might love Ellie.

Okay. You might love Ellie. Here's a deal. And this is the last thing I'll say. I understand what a difficult chore it is to adapt

hold on. I don't understand. I can understand what a difficult sure it is to adapt such robust source material into an HBO show. I get it.

I understand it. I can understand it. It just feels like there's something missing from this show that either I'm not, either they're trying

to initiate. me into a new way of storytelling that they're not fully being successful in or that I just I'm just not connecting with the amount of just unnecessary. If I got to watch a pregnant lady die, seriously. If I got to watch a pregnant lady die, it's got to mean something, bro. I thought, if I'm going to be honest, I thought that that scene should have been a whole episode. Not the scene should be a whole episode, but that should be a momentous.

Her dealing with that. Dealing that counter is, that is something you need to spend time on. Even her getting captured by the seraphites, to me, I'm like, this is an episode. I need to see her escape from the seraphites for this to mean anything. Like that's a useless scene. Even Jesse, even Jesse getting popped,

running to Abby, that should feel momentous instead of it feeling like super, super fucking rushed because we gotta get to the, and I'm like, there was just too many, I was just like, y'all stuffed a lot of shit into this episode. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business.

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All right. Nerd news, we got some news about the Avengers movies. So unfortunately or fortunately, depending upon where you are at, Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret Wars both got pushed back. I believe Doomsday is now, it switched from May to December. And then next year, basically both of them switched to December. And Doomsday is now coming out, the same day as Doom Messiah, Doomsday as Joe has called it.

I'll start with you then. We know why this happened, but as someone in the industry, why do you think something like this happens? Do you think that this is good? Are you worried? It's good. They're looking at the scope of what it is,

in my opinion, I don't know anything. They're looking at the scope of what they're trying to accomplish and they're just saying, we can't get it done by May. And that's a good thing. Yes.

Now, it also tells you that they're being very delicate with the movie. So the amount of, um, it depends on how you look at it. They,

they're being very delicate with the film, which is a good thing. But that also might mean that they still have a lot of story to work out. Nobody's got a script. All the actors are basically like, I have not even read a script yet. I mean,

like they have their pages and then that's it. Like they don't have a story. Uh-huh. Like, who knows what to move? Like, well, I mean, there's got,

there's some story. There is something. But, but, But that's also probably trying to mitigate leaks and all that stuff like that. They're probably trying to keep as much on the tuck as possible. And there's a lot of things they have to change. I think it's overall a good thing.

Yeah. That date when those movies are coming out on the same day, it's not going to happen. Absolutely. All right. So because those are going to be two gigantic long movies, they could be trying for a Barbenheimer situation. I don't think it works the same way because the Barbenheimer situation was two competing fan base. that we're saying, come on.

Barbie, I'll trade your Barbie for an Oppenheimer. These are the same people that are going to see the same movie. I would see both movies in the same weekend. I definitely would. I definitely would. But also, tonally and quality-wise, and this is not me saying Avengers Dooms Day is going to be like so much worse than Dune Messiah,

but I do, there is a level to me where I'm like, I wouldn't be surprised if Dune Messiah ends up being like a return of the King's situation where people are like, we're ready to like, annoying Denny and this movie and all these people is like you made one of the great achievements and Avengers Doom's Day it's just a different kind

of calculation. It's also, Doom aside is also probably going to be a drag. Yeah. And this movie is going to be a drag in a different way but a much prettier, flashier, comic bookie drag. So you might want dooms, I don't know. So who comes off the date though? Because that's my big question. Because I had the same thought. I'm like, there's no way

these two movies come out on the same day. The fan base is, the Venn diagram of the fan base, basically a circle. like it just doesn't really make any sense ultimately if you want to build like if you want to have the moment for Doom Messiah right or Doomsday like it's not going to happen if another movie as big as yours

is coming out literally that same weekend I mean I wouldn't be surprised though doomsday gets pushed back again that's where I'm at like because I just exactly where I'm at if I'm first of all I will say it's good I would rather Marvel spend as much time as they need making Doomsday good like I can fucking wait

the thing that worries me a little bit is that the reason that Thunderbolts was successful, in my opinion, is that there was like a singular vision. They knew what they wanted to do. They had a script and they spent the time and they're working on it. With Doomsday, this feels, it's starting to feel cobbled together. It's starting to feel like they don't, like they know where they're going. It seems like Secret Wars is where they're going and it's like,

we need a movie to get there. And it's just, they basically have to get, they have to make us believe that Sam, is going to lead this new Avengers team so he needs to get the Avengers team together they all have to have chemistry The lawsuit The loss of Thunderbolts Have to be in this and then the Fantastic Four

And the old X-Men Yeah It's it's That's so so here's my And so things I agree I think that Marvel Will end up coming off that date And moving it back to 2028

I don't think so at all You don't think so? No 27 no Really? No there's no way I don't think so at all

To move the movie So to move the movie Fully to 2027 I could be wrong And if I'm wrong I'll buy a big pizza And we can do a pizza episode Sure

Sit here and we eat the pizza We do the podcast It'll be so fun We should do a pizza episode We should do a pizza episode Oh if we get turtles We do a pizza episode Midnight Munchy's pizza

What? Yeah we do pizza Wait Did y'all see that fucking sick ass statue? Nuts. What? Bro. What are you guys?

Of Leonardo. Of Leonardo. Well, I ain't even see that. It might be Raphael. I think it was Leonardo. Where you looked this up? Nuts. I wish the ringer, we should buy that and put it in the fucking thing.

I agree. But I, so then if that's the case, then what from Marvel comes out in 26? That's, and that's where I'm at as well. Because I think they got to move come off of it, right? Yeah, Spider-Man comes out first. now that this date moved. So Spider-Man comes out first, and the Spider-Man comes out when?

July. July of 26. Right. So what I think, they might be like, hey, we believe, because it seems like,

with all of the actors that we're seeing that are going to be in this movie, it seems very clear to me that they're doing Miles Morales, whether he's going to be in the suit or not, I don't know, but it seems like they're doing the PS

four or five game. They might be like, you know what, let's actually blow this out and make this our Deadpool and Wolverine. we believe in nothing in the Spider-Man brand that that's just going to be our only movie and then we're going to get more time

because you know more about production than I do how are they going to land this plane with this amount of VFX, this amount of actors, it seems like they're still at a year and a half away. Yeah, that's also this type of movie. Also for this type of movie. In a normal Marvel world, they could do it. They could.

When everything is fire. Right, when everything is fire. I just think, They might. Let me not be so sure that they won't move it back. I think it's a gamble to move the movie back. Because if you move that one back, you got to move Secret Wars back.

And now we're talking about Secret Wars. Remember, Secret Wars and Infinity War and Ingame came out. How far apart? A year. A year apart, right? So you need momentum to stay between those two films. And you need momentum to be in, and what Marvel doesn't have right now

is crazy momentum. So the dead periods are going to feel a little bit more pronounced. I don't have any Disney Plus. We only have Daredevil and the Punisher. Special presentation. And then Vision Quest. Yeah.

That's, and like I was getting to, that's like the thing that worries me. If they do indeed move it back again, what do you fill the space with, right? X-Men 97. And is there any sort of continuity conflicts between that and this that they would have to account for.

I mean, I'm sure like... That was a multiverse of madness problem. That was a... Moving the movie to 27 is a gamble to me. So what... Really? Do you think this... Yeah, moving moving doomsday to...

I mean, so if you move it back, or are you talking about moving back to February? Or are you talking about moving back to, no, I'm talking about moving back to like February. Maybe they're just like, yo, we need an extra two months. A couple of two months. Yeah, maybe that's not something of it. But to your point, they probably want that holiday business.

They probably, they're like, yo, it's going to be dead in January, February. We want a movie that can be in theaters three months and can be like, also, am I crazy to think that like they probably want that out in 26 due to like earnings call reasons and stuff? Like, fiscally, they probably shouldn't be on the books for 26. I feel like the fiscal year starts on July 1st. Right, right. So how much of this is affected also by Fantastic Four where I feel like they feel like they have a little juice with Thunderbolts. If Fantastic Four hits and is just like beats all projections, and is super popular.

I think they're just like, let's get this movie done. Who fucking cares? If Fantastic 4 is just okay, and like people enjoy it, but it's like a little bit muted, I wouldn't be surprised if they start panic

and they're just like, we need to spend some more time. I don't know if there's going to be that much, like, in much of a tailspin, if like, even for some reason which it won't, Fantastic 4 bombs or is less than,

does less than expected. I think it's more of like, if you had a, to believe in the Marvel machine when it comes to executing Doomsday, now is the time because I don't think there hasn't been a more high leverage movie

that Marvel has come out with now that will be Doomsday. As far as both financially and culturally, to actually like restart the engine that could be the next phase of whatever Marvel has to do, like they gotta nail this. So I would imagine that it's all hands on deck for this.

My question is, what do you feel the time? I'm trying box office tracking on Fantastic 4. Yeah. I'll have as Bell as it's still, but it's still, that's coming out in July, so maybe it's a little early. But I, do you guys, what do you guys feel like the sense is out there for Superman and Fantastic 4? We're still a ways away where it's just like I, at the beginning of the year,

thought that the excitement was going to be a little bit higher. And it's like, we're getting close. And for both movies, I'm not seeing as much as excitement. I think we'll skew pretty positive. I think the fantastic four one has something. I think they both have something, honestly, that you wouldn't expect those two products to have, which is intrigue.

We've seen these characters on screen before. We've seen these characters in comic books and we've seen these characters and cartoons. But I think that people are curious about what's happening. Now, a lot of the intrigue about Fantastic Four is being given away by the brass at Marvel purposefully because people have questions. And Marvel is not in the place where these questions were, can afford to not be answered. If Fantastic Four is coming out in 2017 or 2018, you put the trailer out, and then we go to the movie and we find out that it's in a different world. now so much has happened

post endgame and also just you know in Marvel culture now that people want to know well how the fuck is this going to happen and we know that Doomsday's coming and all of this stuff Dr. Doom isn't in this movie maybe he is maybe he's not

blah blah blah like how is what's happening so we have to kind of know that it's in a different world we kind of have to know that they survive like they like the fact that they're coming to Earth at the and we've seen that

in Thunderbolts already it's like wow okay cool so we know that they're escaping their planet for some reason Superman is you just look at it and you know Jesus Christ is a lot in a Superman movie like what's going to happen so I think the intrigue fills in for these characters that are legacy characters the curiosity about the takes on them is something that's a little different that will hold because the way I look at these movies not to be you know typically hyper-proposed the way I look at these movies is like a balloon like different balloons right so there are certain comic book movies that the

the comic book community balloon gets completely filled. Yeah. Then there are certain comic book movies that the casual person balloon gets completely filled. Then there's another cultural balloon to where people that don't even care about comic book movies just want to be a part of the conversation. Yeah. And then that gets filled. Like Superman has, and Fantastic Four to me, are completely filling up the comic book balloon.

Yeah. Totally. Absolutely. The casual balloon is, you know how like a balloon runs out of air and it starts kind of losing a little bit? It won't flow anymore. That's still to this point. That's what they have to figure up.

The last balloon is about people who just don't care about it but just want to be a part of the cultural phenomenon. That's not getting filled. Right. With either movie. That'll get filled with those movies sequels. That was not getting filled with either film. But I feel like both of those films is the same question,

which is like, can both of these... companies make us believe again. Like, can you make us believe that this is a new start? That there is still story to tell, that there's meat on the bone. There's all this stuff. And I'm like, I think that there is. Like, I've seen enough for both of those movies where I'm like, there's a way forward. It's just maybe because we're getting so much information, because we're getting more

trailers, because it's starting to happen. I'm like, damn, I hope there are some surprises left where it just seems like they're almost so scared where I'm like, damn, I'm seeing a lot of Superman now. Damn, I'm seeing a lot of the story of Fantastic Four. They're not coming from a place of strength. Yeah. So you have to put your best foot forward. You have to do way more than you ever had to do previously.

Because again, like in 2018, you would have dropped a movie. And we would have been like, oh, my God, I get all this stuff. In 2025, it's different now. It's completely the landscape. For example, baby group, that's something that you get at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy One. That is something that is just like so cute that it, like, culturally, it's like, oh, you have to see this because baby group. Now there's all these toys. It feels like now with something like crypto, it's just like, no, we are front-loading this.

You don't see this dog. You were going to see this dog. You got to come. And I'm like, that's the thing that I'm like tripping up on a little bit is I'm just like, yo, save some of the magic. I don't know that there's ever been a Superman movie that hasn't opened. And so this movie definitely will open. But, you know. Does it have legs?

We don't know. James Gunn James Gunn has never missed But it feels like for some reason That people keep waiting for him to Wait wait wait Never missed in more context Never missed since he got Guardians

Like I mean Guardians 1 Guardians 2 Guardians 3 Suicide Squad Peacemaker He hasn't really missed But it seems like for some reason His style and his comedy Are

It seems like people keep waiting for it To be too much James Gunn Well, I think that we are, this is a test of has the James Gunn era, because I think the James Gun era is so tied to Marvel and the MCU and like the witty banter and the disgusting shit and the cute shit, where it's like, is he basically giving us the DC version of that? And do people still want that? Because it's seeming like, honestly, ironically,

stuff like Dune Messiah or sinners or all of these other maybe more serious, darker takes, it seems like the audience might be a little bit like we want less of the cutesy shit and maybe more something that's a little bit more realistic a little bit edgier. What that is is that and we talked about this when we talked about

the Superman trailer last week is the fact that it's very, very, very, very, very, very different than Superman we've gotten before. And so if you want to just go back to that, we could have gone back to that. They had that in the same. They had Henry Cavill come back in Black Adam

and Brab was like, Yeah, actually, let's table that. That's cooked. That's done. That's over. We need a, like, a brighter. We need a, like, a more Superman that's a Donna Superman, right? To your point.

And so, I don't know if that works. I don't know if, like, a more realistic dark Superman works because we had it and we didn't really like it. So what do you do? You completely flip the script. You turn it 180. I don't care. Superman just ain't no fucking depressed-ass nigger. That's not, I mean, I, he can be sad, though.

He can be sad. Nah. They tried to do that with the, what you're gonna call it? What was the one before Superman Returns? He was all sad in that shit too. What? What's his face? He became the Adam on the CW.

Brandon Rouse? Brenner Rout? That was a sad-ass fucking movie, bro. It was just like very, it took itself very seriously. But Superman is a... And that's why when he does the look up here and you'd actually like, I was like, I kind of need my Superman to be a little corny. He seemed like.

He was a captain of a football team. You need to be a little corny. Hey, buddy, coming right through that hole for you. What? Like, that's how he looks like. Coming right to what? That's what he said. That's what you say.

He's coming right through what? What? Right through that hole. Coming through that hole. Well, stretching it out. Why did you wink at me? Stop doing that. That's a wrap.

This week on the Ringervverse feed, House of R will also have their deep dive. The Last of Us ready for you. Also on the House of Our feed, they will be revisiting Rogue One with special guest Chris Ryan. Oh, hell yeah. See our nation, baby. And on Wednesday, the Midnight Boys will be. giving you our thoughts on Mission Impossible to Final Reckoning, a producer,

Sin Assault Factory, or Steve, the architect Alman, John Jones, Johnton Kerman, John Mayer, Denner on socials. An additional production from The Health Master, Arjuna Rabgapal. Oh my God. Chuck, take us out. Last of us, season two was a little disappointing.

Ellie is in the shits. We're now rooting for Abby. Shout out to all the slits. That time I tried to embarrass my mom And my mom like flipped it around on me Go for it Oh boy So my dad

Rest in Peace dad Dad Dad used to hide his His Newty magazines Under the seat in the truck And then You know

Top of the closet classic You know So but if you reached under the sea If you reached up under the seat In the dad's truck You come out with a blacktail, black beauties.

You know? Blacktail magazine used to have this lady that I guess was the editor or they used to pretend like she was the editor of Blacktail Magazine. Her name was Dynamite.

All of the stars of the era would be in Blacktail Magazine. See, that's what, that's why I'm like this. I wasn't raised on Playboy. Right. Playboy was like in the 80s, my uncles in them.

I was raised on Blacktail, black beauties, those magazines where it was a little bit more. And I just will say, that's when, like, it was a true love of the game because you used to have to go into a convenience store. And my voice, like, damn, you're like, I don't know. They had the things on them.

Yeah, that's not what I'm, so you know, my shit, that shit was a little bit more hardcore, you know. So I would get, I would reach under the Blacktail, get the Blacktail magazines. And I remember in one of them, there was these one hot, 900 numbers that would be advertising the magazines. Right. and the 1,900 numbers would be like 1,900 hot clit or something like that. Okay. Because back in the day, hey, don't freak out guys.

No, we're here. Okay. Back in the day, even before the porn will come on, there would be all of these advertisements for like 1,900 numbers. Yeah. So you put the porn on, and it'd be like, before the porn would come on, it'd be like, oh, yeah, hey, Daddy, you want a hot girl to talk to? 99 cents a minute.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like those that come on Comedy Central back in the day. Right, but this was, this would be before the porn, and then the porn will start. And they'll put that in it anyway. So one of them said, 1,900 hot clit. But for some reason, my young mind, I read it as slit. And I'm not sure why.

I didn't know what a clit was at this point. It's like 11 or something like that. And so my mom gets in the truck. And my mom's like, I hope you know it. we're not stupid. We're not stupid. We know that your daddy thinks it's healthy. I think it's disgusting.

Not even saying what it is. But my mother didn't think that was disgusting because she wasn't sex positive. She thought it was disgusting because she always had it in her in mind and she wanted me to have an accurate view of sex. So she would always tell me she'd be like, if you have questions about sex, you should know that a lot of stuff that you're watching. is essentially performance art. It's not real sex.

It's not how people have sex and all that. It's stuff like that. Very true. And I felt like she was trying to, like, embarrass me a little bit. So I come back at her. I'm like, yeah, no, I don't have any questions. I'm learning all about the slits from the magazines.

I learned about the slits from the magazine. You slipped up. And my mom goes, you're learning about the slits. And I'm, yeah. God. Like, 1,800 hot slit. And my mother goes, spell slit. and I said

C L-I-T With the silent C Yeah and she goes So that's clit You're thinking of clit Now let me show you something Because I realize you don't have hair on your genitals yet

And you don't really understand what you're talking about The clit is the And she started talking And I felt like The lamest herb in the world she starts giving me a like medical description of the clit and what a vagina is and she starts quizzing me on things and I don't know these answers. So do you know what the labia is?

You know what this? Do you even know what you? Sorry, how old are you? 11 or 12. She's like, do you know what you're looking at when you're looking at it? She's like, because if you want, I can sit right here and tell you all about it. I was like, nah, you got it's cool. I was like, nah, I don't want to hear no more.

I don't hear nothing about slits or clits or nothing. I don't want to know nothing. All right, you got it. It's cool. And then dad comes and dad's, I see dad walking. Dad's got his hat on. I see Dad walking. Dad's about to get in the truck.

And then her mom, who's laughing at this point now, because she realized that she's, like, embarrassed me. She goes, Terry, Van has some questions. I'm like, no, I don't. I don't want to know nothing. Like, Van has some questions about what? And dad's like, what? what you got questions about?

Mom goes about rest and peace dad. Mom goes, he has some questions about clits and dad goes, now, what in the fucking world would make y'all

be in here talking about some motherfucking clits? Crystal, what are you trying to do to this boy? What in the world? How could y'all be talking

about this? Ain't no clits. Now let's get on the road. Let's start taking you to church. What were your parents' thoughts about squirting. Real? Pete? Never talked to him about it. There are some things that my dad, before my dad

passed away, that my dad was unfamiliar with, because he had started. So, last thing. So I, you know, my dad still like to watch a porn or two. So I gave my dad a couple of points. The funniest question, the funniest conversation. Wait, are we talking like, you giving him

the sites? You're just like, hey, it's... I'm sending them to his phone. Yeah, it's like the future. You're getting like the best words. On the new stuff. Yeah, I'm sending it to his phone. phone because he's like you can't believe the technology we got now so wait I just want to I just want to be very I just want to be very clear now you are you are sending porn to your father yeah I'm sitting in to his phone okay okay you're like you're saying got it got it so like you

say it's just a sex positive podcast yeah remember right so let him get his take off I just want to say I think it is a little crazy that you were sending your dad porn links like they're sucks. So it's a sex bottle of podcast, but I just want to be, let's be very clear. That is a little crazy, but please continue. It's not that crazy. So me and dad had a conversation about, so me and dad had a conversation about the fact that, you know, I watch porn and I learn.

I watch porn because of him, right? Because of all the porn of his that I found the time at the. Buffalo video guy called. I told you all about that. Right, right, right, right. And so I was watching porn because of him. And he was like, I don't really look at it that mode because I, you know, I don't find it as much anymore because, you know, they don't have the DVDs as much anymore.

This is like 16, 17 or something like that. And so I'm like, no, you just watch it on your phone. You just like look at it on your phone. And he was like, oh, for real? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, well, how, how, like, what do you type in? I was like, oh, shit. And so I sent him some links.

And so he's watching the porn. And then two things happened. The first time he goes, well, these look like regular people. He don't like that. That's not the era he from. Oh, he was on that amateur shit? He don't, like, I sent him something. He's like, these look like regular people.

It's not going to work. These are regular people. My dad looked at me and my dad goes, he said, son, this is sick. You can't just be watching regular people. He said, he said, he said, he's a fucking co-worker porn, right? He said, son. God damn. He said, son, this is sick.

These look like regular people. I'm like, well, they are. That's like, the majority of what I always like, nah, son, this is kind of sick. So I'm like, okay, cool. This is too. That was too far. That was too far.

My tails was tasteful. Got it. He's like, I was like, the answer shit. It's like too much. Like, he had all kinds of thoughts. He was like, man, they got the TV on in the background. Did he mention?

Did he mention sometimes the feet, the soul's that they feed dirty as fuck? He just, it wasn't for him. So I sent him another. the link and then he came back and he had all of these thoughts. Come on. He had thoughts about the fact that all of the women in the porn were like totally shaved, which he was like, he comes from a different era. Yeah.

He comes from a different era. And remember, this is him after really taking a long time off from watching. Was he missing the bush? He wasn't missing it, but he had a whole thought on how his generation was actually responsible for that. Oh. that we should say thank you to them because they actually push that forward.

And then some of the other stuff that was going on, he was like, I just remember he said, God rest my dad, so my dad was like, this one might be too rough for me, son. And I was like, what? He was like, they're really rough. They handle the girls rough. I'm not really, I'm like, I watch some of the poor.

He's like, nah, man, they're handling the girls rough. And there's one girl. Your dad said this. And he said, I can't watch it when they make up gets messed up. Like, remember when? This is like if you stopped watching basketball in like 1994. And then you just started watching the new, in 2020. And you're like, where's the back to the basket hoops?

He didn't like, he's like, I can't watch their makeup get messed up. And I was like, okay. But he did realize, like, even when he was watching the shit, this is all the performance. This is all. I'm pretty sure he did. But remember, when I went to his house after he had passed away, he had some porn's up there burned on. DVDs, but they were older. So he had found a plug,

he had gone back to what he was used to. So wait, you're telling me your dad was still on the physical media, like physical media. He was the Sean Fennacy of porn. Well, physical media. Wow. The big porno. Big porn. Big porno. It was like, big porno. It was like,

I could tell you got at the barbershop because it was written in like what? Last thing, because I know this is a long post credit. This is the most insane post-credit. But the last thing that I thought is like, when he stopped coming to me for the porn, because I sent him a couple of links. But then I was like, after a while, I was like, you know, you got to.

You got to. I've done it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to feed yourself now. Yes. Because one link should open up a whole. Yeah, yeah. But he really didn't understand technology.

I mean, yeah. It's like, he really didn't get it. He was like, can I look at this on the computer? I'm like, yes. Like he really didn't understand like technology at all, right? Like at all. And so I think that he got back into the life.

Yeah. But then he probably asked around for a plug and I wonder how those conversations went. I mean, well, I do, as his son, was there a little, was there a moment where you're like, Dad, you made me and he's looking at you like, I'm so ashamed of myself. Like, my son is watching this fucking shit.

shit were they messing up the fucking makeup. They're treating these women so rough. Like, am I responsible for this? So good question. So I don't think that dad, because dad was a porn watcher, but I don't think that dad ever understood the scope of porn that I got into.

Because I think it was kind of like, he was watching it every now and again and written the tapes and all of that stuff like that. But I don't think he understood, if we ever had a conversation about, you know, Dad, I devoted like seven straight years to porn. I think he probably would have been concerned. I see what happened. But he had-

He opened the gateway and you ran straight through it. I ran through it because also, like, it just became, what really happened was this. It became progressively easier and easier and easier and easier to get. And I'll say this, this is the last thing. The one porn that changed my life more than anything was, the Pamela Anderson's Tommy Lee sex tape and let me tell you why. I think that's just a landmark point in general.

I never thought I would be seeing no shit like that. When I thought that I was going to watch that and it was going to be Pamela Anderson like dancing around and all of that stuff like that in different ways. But when I first saw it actually happening, I was like, and then I was like, man, what else is there out there?

Like, how far is this rabbit hole go? Wow. And then I don't think that, was like, like, I don't think he was, he would have been, because he didn't even understand, like, I had this one point in my room, and it was called, and so, all right, that's not. All right, we got to wrap this. How did we get here?

No, this is great. This is what the Midnight Boys are for. You ask me a question. I'm going to give you an answer. There's no shame. There is no shame. You ask me a question. There is not.

Sex-spons in a podcast. Sixth, my dad found that when he was like, he's just all gals, huh? Just all gals? Disappointed? Just disappointed as funny. Yeah, he was like, all right, now, boy. Wow.

Don't ask questions you don't want to answer to him. Shout to mama. I'm like, I should call her right now. Your mom's are OG. Oh, shit. Real, bro. Yeah. Bro.

Fuck with her if you want. Like, I used to be, sometimes me and my sister would try to get at mom. I definitely want you to leave, leave this part in. Like, sometimes, like me and my sister, would try to get at mom and we'd be like

because mom and dad would be in the room and the door would be closed for a long time they would give us money to go get something to eat the whole nine whatever and we'd be like what you and daddy was doing back in the room the whole day and my mother would be like

fucking is that what you wanted to know all right shut up Steve you just don't want black women to express themselves sexually first of all you can take them to watch some

but you don't want them to feel pleasure My mama don't care about nothing that you got going on. My mama don't even respect you. Just like she actually loved you. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention.

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