The Ringer-Verse - The ‘Mandalorian’ Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive | House of R

Episode Date: March 25, 2023

We must protect the children! And you must listen to the latest deep dive with Mal and Joe. They're back to dive deep into the latest episode of ‘The Mandalorian’ (09:02). Later, Ben Lindbergh joins to discuss the history of Order 66 and the appearance of a legendary Jedi (71:44). Then they give away their episode awards and speculate on what's to come. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Guests: Ben Lindbergh Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili, and hosts of What About Your Friends? A podcast dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed, I talk to my best friend Stephen Othello and your favorites from within the ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS asked back in the day, what about your friends? For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matter. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. This is the forge. It is the heart of Mandalorian culture. Just as we shape the Mandalorian steel, we shape ourselves. All begin as raw ore. We refine ourselves through trials and adversity. The forge can reveal weaknesses.

And welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to the Armourer's Forge, but also to join us on the ringer's nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. Joining me today to remind me that one does not speak unless one knows. It's my training dart challenge mate in my house of our co-host Joanna Robinson. If the rule was we do not speak until we know, these podcasts would be a lot. shorter Valerie than they actually are.

So, uh, boo to that part of the creed. Yeah. Eat shit, creed. Yeah. Once again. But not, but not Michael B. Jordan's creed. We support you. Just the covert.

Adonis Creed. The Adonero's Creed. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Joe, we are of course here today to dive deep into the fourth episode of the Mandalorians of third season. But before you summon the Shriekawk training team,

some quick programming reminders. Next week of the midnight boys. We'll, of course, have their instant reaction to the fifth episode of this Mando season. We will be back on Friday for our Chapter 21 deep dive, but we'll be with you a couple other times and a couple other ways as well. We will be over on our sister feed,

the Prestige TV podcast, every Friday. Double House of Our Friday action on double feeds because we'll be breaking down every episode of the new season of Yellow Jackets. Buzz, Buzz, baby. And...

Buzz, but... I like that you say Buzz Buzz Baby. That's so nice. I prefer buzz, buzz, buzz. You say buzz buzz bitches, yeah. That works. We've got another pod coming next week, Joe.

So excited. It's time to enter the house of who. Can you give everybody... Before you tell everybody how to find all of that, which I need you to do as well, can you tell everybody... once more if they need the refresher, what to watch for the first Dr. Whoopat.

So if you are just hearing about this for the first time, which is possible, I have somehow duped Mallory Rubin, who is extremely busy all the time, into watching. I know. I'm just kidding. That's not a damn thing. I can't wait. I'm so excited.

I have delightfully enticed Mallory Rubin into watching a lot of. A lot of New Who. New Who is the Doctor Who run that started in 2005. Leading up to the anniversary special that is happening in November, where David Tenet is coming back to Doctor Who for a little stretch. So we are going to, for every other month for the next few months, going to be checking in on Mal's Progress through this watch, hoping that you guys are watching along with us. I've already heard from a bunch of our listeners who are watching Who for the first time. time because of this and that thrills me to my core. So we're starting off slow and easy with the Christopher Eccleston season of Doctor Who.

That is the first season of New Who, again, start in 2005. The first episode is called Rose. The last episode is called The Parting of the Ways. So episode one through episode 13, the Christopher Eccleston season. You can watch a Christmas special if you want. We're not talking about it until next time. So just 13 episodes. Christopher Eccleson.

He is the ninth doctor. Doctor Who, that is what we were doing. And then Mallory and I will be talking about it. On Monday, this episode will have like a little bit of extra like history of Doctor Who and why it's important and stuff like that. And then we'll be talking about that season and then going forward, we will let you know what the next chunk will be and the next chunk will be. I am over the moon to share this thing that I love with Mallory. I know that she is going to love it because it is a very emotional show along with all the cool genre stuff that we love. So here we go.

Did I miss anything? I can't wait. I wouldn't know if you had. That's part of the joy. It's all new to me. How do we? And like, just to say, if you've never watched Doctor Who and you're starting with this 2005 season, the 2005 season is much hipper than like the stuff that aired in the 60s for sure. But it's still got some hokeyness.

That's part of Doctor Who's Charm. So if you're watching and you're like, Joanna, why am I watching this thing where the aliens are wearing like rubber suits in a couple episodes? A, it gets better and B, that's just part of Doctor Who's Charm. Just roll with it, I promise you. I love it. Can't wait. Joe, how can everyone follow all of that? The Whoopad and everything.

I'm so glad you asked me. Okay. Like, first of all, why don't you just subscribe to the ringerverse? Like, what are you doing with yourself? If you haven't already done that, that way you get all the House of Our content, all the Midnight Boys, the Mint Edition, everything that's happening in the feeds, great stuff. You know what? While you're there, give us those five stars, folks.

We haven't asked in ages. Yeah, five stars. Maybe you haven't asked on House of Our ever. Give us the five stars. Give us a five star. Give us a nice review would be nice. Sometimes we get not so nice. reviews. So if you have something nice to say, that might be nice. And then press-stasy,

TV podcast feed. I recommend you. Do you subscribe to that as well? Also want to hit us with a five-star over there? That's great. So that you can catch up with the, uh, five stars. Catch up with yellow jackets and succession and all the stuff we're covering over there. Falls on social. Yeah. Jomey is just crushing it all over the place. Instagram, TikTok, while it still exists, Twitter, et cetera, et cetera. At ringer verse or at ringer. And did I miss something? Oh, Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. There were kind of sort of dragons

in this episode of The Mandalorian, so we are once again relevant with our email address. But that's where you can sell. It said, Yellow Jackets' Thoughts, Doctor Who Thoughts, Mandalorian thoughts, Apple Thoughts, anything your heart desires. We are ready.

The doors are open. That's it. Wonderful. Back to you. Last program we reminder is is the old neighborhood spoiler warning. We will be talking today about the episode of television

that you're here to listen to us discuss the Mandalorian Chapter 20 The Foundling will also be discussing and considering fair game all of Mando to date other Star Wars programs

such as the Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, really all of Star Wars Canon is on the table today so if you don't want to hear about say various prequel era starships consider this your warning. Okay. Chapter 20, the Foundling

directed by by Carl Weathers, written by John Favreau and Dave Filoni. This checks in at just north of 32 minutes, and that includes the previously on, the intro, the credits. We have followed the longest ever episode of the Mandalorian with the shortest ever episode of the Mandalorian. And that gets us to our opening snapshot. Welcome to the Port of Ringerverse, Jim of the Outer Rim.

Joanna Robinson. Overall impressions of chapter 20. And quick temperature check on season three at the midway point, because that's where we are. We're at the midway point. This reminded me in a lot of, I mean, I have a lot of notes for a lot of institutions that we see in this episode.

Yeah. A lot of feedback ready and wearing to go. But this episode reminded me a lot of earlier episodes of The Mandalorian, It just felt like pure plot sort of, you know, it's a very adventure of the week kind of episode. We do get a flashback and some important, you know, unearthing of trauma and stuff like that. But it just felt, it feels so tight and taught and straightforward. I saw some people liken this, I think, because the characters are on a beach at one point,

liken this to beach episodes in anime history or if you're not a huge anime fan, but you watch Avatar, There is an episode called The Beach, which is the fifth episode of the third season. Beach episodes in anime tend to be like, it's almost like a bottle episode in animated form where you like press pause, your character's on a beach. And usually there's some like emotional introspective and also often flashbacks. But I don't know that I would necessarily like call this a beach episode. But I think the Mandalorian would crush a beach episode. And then do you want my temp check? Or do you want me to wait on that?

Hit me with your season 3 midway point temp check. So we're midway. Yeah. How, I mean, Mallory and I like to say this a lot. How we feel about this season is going to depend on how they land it, right? Like, I'm open to being delighted by the back half and then just say, like, this is a great episode, a season of television. Right now I'm floundering a little bit to see the big picture. You know, and I think that's just because in the first two seasons, the Mandalorian, you know,

did have a very clear purpose that he was sort of like reaching towards. And we thought in this season his very clear purpose was like get to the living waters. But then he got that out of the way. So now the question now is like what are, you know, what's the plan now? And so I can I talk about a little bit about footage we saw in trailers? No spoiler. I don't know any spoilers. But just like I was rewatching all the like trailer footage.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. to see what was remaining. And there's a shot of our guy, Carson Tiva, who we met in a previous season, saying to Dinn, there's something dangerous happening out there. By the time it becomes big enough for you to act, it will be too late. That is extremely tantalizing. They use that over-footage of Pershing, but, like, we know that that's sort of a misdirect,

or unless he's talking about the cloning plot, that will be. interesting. But that's, I'm like, when are we getting when is Carson Teva showing up? And then more, something that feels more concretely connected is there are a bunch of shots of a whole bunch of Mandalorians fighting on Navarro.

So it looks like we're headed towards possibly Mandalorians versus pirates. And I will just remind you that it's been 23 days since we last saw the Pirate King Gorian Shard. But not 23 days since we last thought of him.

Joe. No, always in my thoughts and prayers. So I'm wondering if I think we thought maybe we were headed towards like a Mandalorian Civil War, but maybe we're heading just towards the unification under whose leadership

remains to be seen. And then seeing the might and force of the Mandalarians as a united group, what could they achieve if they are united under one leader? They could save Navarro. perhaps invest in some real estate. But, like, I think, I think that's interesting to me,

especially compared to season one of the Mandalorian, thinking about the covert on Navarro and how hidden they were and how they did come out of hiding at, you know, at a point when they were needed. But they were still sort of like sewer rats on Navarro, whereas, like, if they sort of repel in the way it seems like they might in the trailer, that just seems like a progression for them as a group.

So I don't know. I think that's really interesting. So I think then the question remains, like, who will lead them? And, you know, Bocatan's making a lot of a strong case for herself. But we also think the show is called the Mandalorian because we think Dynjarn is our lead character. So I don't know. How are you feeling? What's your quick time check on season three at the midway point?

And how did you feel about this episode? Yeah, I enjoyed the episode quite a bit more than last week. week's installment, the non-Grogu parts of it were, obviously, like, it's impossible to measure up to a couple sequences that are all Grogu all the time and just top tier, like, this is everything I want the Mandelor to be when we get a Grogu training sequence or a Grogu Flashback. Special. And some of the moments with Grogu and Din that we got in this episode were really wonderful. And then I think when they parted, it showed us simultaneously what, the widening of the Mandalorian character set

and the season and the scope of the show overall can afford, which is like a really interesting conversation between the armorer and Grogu, for example, or a bow and the armorer at the end of the episode. And then also what I'm really hoping they don't lose, which is Din and Grogu and their relationship as the like beating heart of this.

Because I think that the season has been mixed overall. I'm with you that we have more than a, enough time, though quickly that could change and cease being true. But right now, we still have more than enough time for this overall clear thrust of the season to take shape. And I think also if this season ends up being a little bit more about establishing new dynamics, establishing new character sets, establishing those new missions and quests so that everything next season feels like, okay, this is what this is all about, then long game still could be like a totally worthwhile pursuit, even if it's a little bit uneven to get there.

But it reminds me so far, like I enjoyed this episode. The season feels one degree off to me still. And some of that is the balance between episodes. Though I will say like, I always, in the long gap between seasons two and three of the Mandalorian, I always thought it was a little bit strange when some of the conversation about Mando because of the direction, you know, understandably the direction that we seem to be heading in for this larger plot, lost sight of exactly what you identified, which is like, this was kind of always. is an adventure of the week show,

and sometimes you would watch it on a given week and have absolutely no sense of a larger forward momentum beyond just the joy of being with those characters inside of that adventure. And I think that's ultimately to the show's credit and part of its charm. And part of what I really loved about the second episode in particular was that it felt like it knew how to strike that balance

between maintaining that core strand of what the Mandalorian DNA is while also giving us more lore, giving us more history, giving us more characters, widening the intent and the mythology without losing that beating heart. And so, like, Dyn feels like he is receded in this season in a way that is a little concerning to me. And I think that's part of why the balance feels a tad off.

Now, again, if at the end we're like, man, Bo Katan, who is a character that you and I are both very excited is in the season, to be clear, we have a clear sense of Bo's role in the story. The armorer. We've learned something about this character and this character's history, like hopefully, right? Et cetera. Then maybe in hindsight, all the brew feels a little bit more balanced, but it's going to take a few more episodes to get there.

Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend of mine about this and he was like, does it feel like Dind Jarn's no longer the main character of this show? And I was wondering if like, you know, that poster that we like to talk about for this season where it's Dinn and and Bo and the Dark Saper between them. And what that implies is a clash or a something between two equally weighted characters. And we spent so much time with Din. And if you are a non-animated series watcher, you have spent very little time with Bo. So if they had to like, you know, tip the scales and heavily feature Bo in order for it to feel

like two lead characters versus, you know, guest star of the season. and versus Dan or something like that. I think that that's kind of interesting. But, and I love Katie, and I think this character is super interesting, and I'm thrilled she's here. But I think it's really interesting. I mean, we're going to get into talking about the episode, but the episode opens from, like, Bo Katan's point of view.

Like, that's, we are in her POV for much of this episode when we're not in Grogo's little head. So, like, yeah, I mean, that's a, fact, to what you said, I was making a face that our listeners couldn't hear, but I'm just like, I don't know that I can hang with a placetter. I can hang with a playsetter episode or two. I don't know if I can hang with a placetter season of television. But. Well, and then that gets back to, not that we always want to revisit this, but it does get back to the, like, would it have felt that way if chapters five and six of Boba Fett had been in this season?

Like, the answer is no. Yeah. We are. And we do have a fun episode and an interesting episode to talk about. So let's do it. Let's dive in and bathe in the living waters of chapter 20. All right, Joe, it's back to the turtle, the dino cove. And it's P.E. time for the Mandalorian covert. We get this interesting glimpse into the daily routine of this rebuilding sect. And as you noted, we're on Bo's point of view initially. Bo's walking around, taking it all.

in, watching with interest. My read is not just acclimating, but scouting, looking, and seeing, hey, are these going to be the warriors who can help me if I win them as my followers? Retake Mandelor. Can they become my clan? Great question. Great questions to ask. I have a lot of questions for the covert in this episode. So let's just start with my first one, which is, what kind of training are we achieving by just shooting at the water? Like, what is just shooting at the open water achieving for us? Is it how do we know that we are, is this target practice? How do we know if it's just going into the water?

Yeah. Is it a deterrent for another aquatic attack? Like if you just keep firing your blasters? That leaves us, that makes us leapfrog much further into a more important note, which is like, why are you here at this cave? And it's the worst possible location it seems. Again, many, many notes for the covert, some questions of their armor, but, but the training montage.

I was watching it, or like, it wasn't a montage, but like, watching them train, I'm like, some of this looks cool. And some of this, I'm like, did they literally just say stand at the shore and shoot the water? Like, what is happening? One of my questions that I had for you and that I have for the season to this point is, like, are we ever going to find out more about where all these folks came from? Again, in Boba, when Din goes to reunite with the armor and Pasvisla, it's just the three of them at that point.

And we understand that they're searching and hoping. But it feels like a very important detail for the fleshed out fullness of this group, but also the world of this season, to understand how they have achieved this. Not that we need to understand every single character's backstory and where every person was discovered in hiding. But broadly, like, how have they achieved this? How have they gone from three people in Book of Bobafet Chapter 5 to amassing shun? strength and family. And how are they continuing to build from there? Like, I really, I feel the absence of that kind of insight about this community. We would really benefit from

some of that. And I know that one theory of people had was that like some of them were Bo's old followers, but like that's not the case because Bo shows up and there's no recognition, right? So like, yeah, I would love to watch Paz and the armor proselytizing across the universe to gather their flock. That sounds fun to me. Or is a mention. Like, we didn't, we didn't trips all around the outer rim to wind up getting eaten by Dino Turtles.

Why are we camping out here? You know, something like that. Yeah. When you pulled me out of my super peaceful non-existence where I was not constantly under threat of being eaten and attacked by air or sea, you told me, like just a couple lines like that. That would help. But we quickly leave the realm of questions into the.

the realm of perfection because we next see sweet baby gumdrop grogo sitting alone away from the other Mandalians surrounded by what we initially think is a bunch of rocks that he is moving with the force and then come to realize are a bunch of crabs. It's just classic 10 out of 10 no notes stuff for me, Joe. Yeah. He shares our passion for Ocean Vistas, which I thought was an important thing for us to discuss for a minute. You know, he loves to look out at the water and reflect. Do you think, Do you think he would enjoy a crab boil? Like, I'm pretty sure he's just eating those things raw and wriggling. Yeah, he's happy to crunch down as is, I think.

I mean, you would need to add some old bay, right? Like, that's your... Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, some steamed crabs, some old bay. Yeah. I would need them to go into like a Chapino or something like that. That's the San Francisco version of it. But either way, we're not...

We're not eating them with the sand still in. That's not what we're doing. Did you think that Grogu wanted a snack as is his want? Or did you think that he was maybe doing a little animal bonding? We've talked a lot across the season about his connection to other life forms. Were you sensing some of that? So my response is why not both? You know what I mean?

Like one can bond with an animal just to like make it take a nap or whatever it is that Groko is on the past. And one could also bond with an animal to lure it into your green little ma. No. Brogo was constantly snacking. What are you talking about? Yeah, but he was not going to ask. He's just like, I'm going to pick up this frog and eat it. He's not like, I'm going to lure you into my web of deception.

That was before he knew the full, you know, width of his powers. This is the path to the dark side, what you're saying right now. You're sitting, you have a bunch of yellow and green around you, but I just see some red coming in. This is a real Sith energy here. I'm just saying, he's animal bonding and he's just chomping on everything in sight. Yeah. As always, I would love for those around him to provide him with more sustenance. You know, growing boy needs his calories.

Speaking of dad, didn't want over. But also, he's just sitting by this shoreline where Donald Turtle could come snap him up. Like, that and, like, I, and, you know, we'll chat about this as he goes into the challenge sequence here. But it is striking to see all of the Mandalrians, all of the foundlings, all of the members of the covert together engaged in this training exercise. and he is separate and apart, and you really feel the evolution inside of the episode of him, him embracing, but also the community embracing him.

You feel that isolation of hers. It's just heartbreaking. I fucking love him. I couldn't love him more. Joe, I get such a kick out of Dinn going into, like, Little League dad mode when he comes over and says, put down the rocks kid,

tells him it's time to train. He says, it's time that you learn with the other foundlings. And there's that same idea. It made me happy and sad all at once, because I was feeling happy that Grogu, if we think back to sanctuary, one of the episodes,

one of our really, our shared loves, chapter four. The joy, the palpable joy that was emanating off of Grogu on Sorgon when he got to hang out

with the other kids and frolic with them in the yard and just be a baby and hang with his peers. And the idea of him on the path to making friends with other foundlings maybe is like really exciting

and wonderful and being welcomed into the community and folded into the community more fully. But then it makes me sad because, like, he doesn't have that right here yet. And also, again, it's that tricky tug of war. I want to see Grogo interact with more of these characters. I don't want him and Din to be a part for 80% of every episode.

I also don't want them to, like, strap a little weapon to him. Like, I just, I... Oh, my goodness. He's just a baby. Like, I hate this. We a little baby. Playtime, however. I need you to focus.

I think that the kids in the sanctuary episode were just like cool little, you know, Marsh Farmer kids, whereas like these are weird helpages, fundy, you know, kids. Cold warriors, yeah. It's a little harder, right? Yeah. So, Dinn Scoops Mob and presents him as the next challenger. And Joanna, when I tell you that I actually screamed out loud in my living room at my television, horrified at the prospect of seeing Grogu enter like a fighting pit,

but also just delighted that we were clearly going to get a Grogu-centric stretch here. This is a lot. A lot of emotional turmoil. And his face here, amazing facial expressions, amazing Grogu work from everybody involved but everybody who's a part of Team Grogu just talked to your stuff in this episode. Yeah. He has this look on his face at first. He's like, Dad, I don't want to go into the Octagon. Why are you making me do this?

And he's watching. Yeah. He's like, I'm just hanging out with my crabs looking at the ocean. By the way, my beach book. I'm so sorry. But back on crab boil, I just want to say, like, to my point, as soon as he walks away, they scurry back into the ocean. They do. They were afraid.

Without question. Holding him holding them there. You know what I mean? Like, for what purpose? It's, I can't dispute that point. I can't dispute that point. Correct. The way that he's watching, when Din brings him over,

he's watching Ragnar and the challenger that Ragnar is initially engaging with with great interests. And I was like, wondering, is he alone, because he sitting alone with the crabs first, because he actually didn't want to fight? Because he didn't want to partake in this or just because he hadn't been invited. Hmm.

I don't know. I want to know everything about Grogho's experience so far. But then we get Bo asking if this is a good idea. And Dyn says, if he has ever to rise from foundling to a brood. He must learn. So there are two things here. One, obviously, the use of the word apprentice.

Very deliberate language choice here. Gros passed on being, yes, yes, Grogou passed on being Luke's apprentice, passed on being a member of Luke's school. But he can be another type of apprentice still. It doesn't always have to be a complete rejection of an idea. And Grogu continues to be this character through which the show explores the idea of embracing your own path to something? What does being an apprentice look like for Grogu?

I think that's the biggest, biggest, biggest element of this episode is this question we've been asking all season, what does it mean to be a Mandalorian and forging your own path? This idea that like, sorry, what's your second point so that I can angrily refute it? No, let's sit this first. And then I'm going to clear out for some ISO ball for you for the second part. Okay. I think it's really interesting to watch the armor, watched Din become, because like when we met Din, he was part of the covert, but he was not hanging out with the covert. He was lone wolfing, right? He was out doing his bounty hunting. And when he would come back, like when he would, when he walked down in the sewers and Navarro, whatever, they all gave him really like suspicious looks. Our guy, Pazizla, the warmest cuddliest guy that ever was. You know, like none of them. Like the armor is the only one who's friendly to him.

And it's because DIN never, like, at least from what we knew when we met him, like was not treating this as his family or as this community. Even though he was raised by them, he is like gratified. He saves Besscar for the foundlings as it should be. Like he understands the way. He understands all the creed and all that. But he's not emotionally connected to this community in any way that we could see in those first season of the Mandalorian. Now that he has created his own family, his clan of two, he's so much more interested in. integrating into the covert, right?

And so the armor is watching him go from the lone wolf to, you know, to a joiner. Real Tommy from The Last of Us energy. He's a joiner now, right? And again, I think there's this constant push and pull between individuality and community in this episode. and what room there is for either, both of those things in this particular sect of Mandalorianism? Right, right. The idea of community is relevant to the next question I wanted to ask you,

which is, Bo Dyn, are you shipping it? Because when Bo comes over to ask if this is all a good idea, there is just undeniable mom, dad energy coming off of the pair of them with Grogo. You are the founder and president of the Dinn and Cobb belong together club. I ship it as well. Many do. How are you feeling?

We've received many emails about the DINBO ship. And I just want to say to all of you, how dare you lose the faith. That being said, it has been 408 days since we've been 408 days since we've. we last saw a Cobb fan. Disney, you were on notice. Wow. Something else is true is that, yeah, I'm counting. Something else is true, though, is that, you know, as much as I might ship Cobb and

Din, and they have great energy. Disney historically is not very eager to engage in a, you know, lean into the queer shipping community. So I wouldn't be surprised if we go in a Bow and Din direction. I'll be disappointed, but I'll not be surprised. As long as I get to see Cobb Vant again, that's the key. That's the most important part. I mean, we're running out of time.

You know, like you know, like you know, we got to get back to Navarro. You assured me. I know, and I'm getting full promised you. You promised me. We made the Unbreakable Val. We got four episodes left. They've got to get on Navarro. I assume we're going back to Mandelor.

We've got to see Gideon at some point. Do we have time to go to Tatouin? Maybe Cob Vance will come from Tattoine to meet our crew somewhere else. would be ideal, frankly. But no, I don't know. It would be fun to go back to see Pelly again as well. So all sorts of possibilities. All sorts of possibilities.

Like until the like last credits role on the finale and even, dare I say, into post credits because that's the last time we saw Cobb fan, I will keep the home fires burning. Yeah. Maybe he'll be in the Stinger again still just. Maybe Tim was too busy. Maybe Tim was too busy making justified. and he couldn't like, like, maintain the Cobb hair

because he needed to bring back the railing given's hair. You know what I mean? The Cobb facial hair. It's a look. So I don't know. Boy, okay. It's a lot to contemplate.

As is this training dart sequence because when Din calls over the judge, the judge says Grogu is too small. Din does not give a shit. Wants his son to go up to the plate and dunk on everyone else out on the diamond. I am his ward for seed.

The judge asks, and I quote, what weapon? And when I tell you, my heart clenched and stopped and the idea of Grogu being around weaponry, this was deeply distressing. The challenger, Ragnar, who of course is the foundling Paz's son, as we will learn in this episode,

from the season three premiere baptism sequence, the one who did not complete the creed before the Dino Turtle attack, is the challenge, and he picks darts. But before we see the darts, Ragnar has a question for the group. Steve, can we please hear this? Why doesn't he wear a helmet?

He is too young to speak the creed, and so too young to wear a helmet. Then he's too young to fight. Okay, you're mad at Ragnar because he dared to guess. Don't put these ideas into the universe. Okay. I'm pro-Ragnar in this moment because I agree he's too young to fight. He is just a baby.

I know he's 50 years old, but he is babbling and co-in. And there's a part- And he can beat mud or-horns with the force. There's a part later in the episode where he is like trailing after the armor and he's like panting with exertion. I know. Because he can like barely keep up. It's just a baby.

Fun fact for, you know, connected. to the ringer.com. What a great website. Friend of the ringer. Jimmy Kimmel. This is Jimmy Kimmel's nephew. Wesley Kimmel plays Ragnar, which I think is really fun.

And then also, I guess we, you know, I think you called out Sigel Watch when we first watched Ragnar in the first episode, but you go back and watch, the sigil of House Vizla is like one of the banners

that they're carrying walking towards him. So like we probably should have known that he was in House Vizla. Uh, pathclays him as a son. I don't know how much you want to get into this right now or later, but like, certainly not biological son, right? Unless... We could do this here. We could do it here. Yeah. Well, I think that there are two possibilities, right? One is that he is a foundling that he's his adopted son as Grogu is for dins. And that would be beautiful and wonderful. He could be his biological son. There are plenty of, of... If so. This is not the only candidate for... But we saw that it was just the two of them, at least for a while.

But this kid is like 14. I know. So like where was that kid at the time? Like if he is Paa's son, is he Paa's a strange son from a divorce like that came before, you know? They're like 15 fucking days into their campfires and naps before they actually go to rescue him up in the nest. And he mentions that he's his son. So it wouldn't shock me if this. moron Paz Vizlo was like, yeah, my kid is maybe somewhere in the galaxy.

I don't know. I'm assuming that he is truly a family. I need more sense of urgency for Paz around this mission, I got to say. We have a lot of notes for Paz. I do think that even the prospect of Ragnar being his biological son does, I can't believe we're doing this inside a section about how cute Grogo is, but Grogo is, but hey, it's how Savar, you know, this is the, this is the brew that people come for. It does, once again, give us the opportunity to talk about how the members of the children

I'd say the honor. The privilege. Obviously, fuck with their helmets on because they are such strict followers of the creed. And so I had a couple questions for you about this. Can you imagine the noise of like helmets clanging? A lot of clanging. I mean, you probably are factoring that into some of the positions you're choosing. I have to imagine.

It's got to be a variable. Like, let's just be practical about this, right? Do you think that instead of saying, like, do you want to bang? They say, do you want to clang? Like, do you think that's what children? watch that. So you don't know what the person you're fucking looks like. And in a way, I think there's something beautiful about that, right?

It's like the Netflix love is blind reality universe has melded with the Mandalorian here. Wonderful. You know, you follow your heart. Doesn't matter what somebody looks like. But if you then have kids, are you looking at your child's face and saying, well, this kid doesn't look like me? I guess I have a sense now of what you look like. It feels like a little bit of a loophole and the don't take off your helmet thing.

but I really, and I'm sorry and I want to apologize, but I just have to ask you, given that we know they refuse to take their helmets off, what do you think this means? Are the Mandalorians not engaging in oral sex? Or are they doing the, you know, we have seen Din do a little like a, I'm sorry to use this phrasing in this context,

the context of this conversation, but he'll slurp some soup, you know, he'll lift his helmet a bit, we'll see some chin and some mouth. So is that the technique that they're using? Or is this just not a part of their sexual experience? Bad baby. I just think that there is a wide gulf between a like a tentative slurp and like what you need.

I feel like they have a sort of DJ Khalid approach to oral sex, which is like it's off the table. They don't do it. And that's part of why they're so tightly wound, honestly. Not that we needed any more evidence that the creed and the way are just a debacle and something everybody needs to move beyond. But we have further proof here. Okay. If I were shipping Bowen, which I'm not, but if I were, like imagine she gets to introduce him to like helmetless sex and or oral sex. Great. Oh my goodness.

Season three finale? I mean, this goes back to our, I mean, I don't think you and I have had this debate, but I'm sure you've had this debate in covering Mando, maybe with Jay, and I've had this debate, which is like, is Danjar and a virgin, right? This is a question that we've asked before. No way. You think he's had sex with, like, Tonks, right? Like, we talked about that.

Absolutely. I think he might be a virgin. I consider that canon, honestly. I think, no, we have had this debate. I remember now. I think he's a virgin. I do. No.

No. And I think someone should fix that soon. Definitely fuck Tongues. And I think, Dyn, as you noted, a bounty hunter, you know, making his way across the galaxy. I also think they just all smell terribly. They smell terribly. They're in that armor all the time. Have you ever dated a hockey player I have?

When they take off the padding and the gloves, it reeks. It's so bad. that's what they smell like. That's true. Though I do think that Dinn is, I have to hope that he's cleansing and cleaning. He takes off the helmet on his own. So doing some exfoliating,

getting a little body wash going on, keeping it fresh in any way he can. But also, I think of this sometimes when there's a showmance on the Survivor season and it's like, you guys reek, are you seriously fucking in a hut somewhere? But people do it. And, you know, I guess if,

Everyone smells bad than at a certain point. Yeah, exactly. It's just like whatever. But I just think if like Dynjarn is traveling the galaxy taking whores baths at best. Like, I don't see how hot Pedro Pascal is. Like, I just, um, anyway, this is a children's show, right? Well, it's just a, even by our standards, a remarkable transition from that right back into Grogo. Because that's what's happening because that's the scene we're still on.

And thank you for listening to our podcast. The one thing I'll say about Ragnar. And the helmet thing is I do want to thank him for giving us the peace of mind that the Grogo helmet is not in our immediate future. Because if he's too young to wear a helmet, he's going to be this size for a while. I feel like we're a couple centuries away from this being a worry. And hopefully they will have abolish this aspect of the creed by then. So thank you, Ragnar also. Fuck you.

This is why I'm voting Bo. Vote, Bo, keep Grogu helmet free. We should make, like, pins, like buttons and bumper stickers. If this is Bo's, like, number one campaign promise, if you vote for me... It's a strong platform. There will never be a helmet on Grogu. Easy. Landslide victory.

I love it. I love it. We get a little bit more insight into the creed here, actually, because there's this one does not speak, unless one knows, is that not the creed exchange between Din and Ragnar? This is just classic, the creed is a disaster and blows and is terrible. Like, don't ask questions. Kind of thing that we are programmed to rebel against inside of our stories. Give me the willies.

Didn't love it. Didn't love hearing fighters arm yourselves either. But this is when we get the little dart wrist banjo strapped on to Grogo. Bo puts it on, which we'll be. was darling. It reminded me of like wrapping a bit of pastry dough around a tiny little hot dog to make a pig in a blanket. Like that was what we were looking at here. It's just I could barely contain my response to this. He's so tiny. He's so small. Did you like, did you rollerblade when you were little or did you ever like put pads on like a little, like a little tiny kid and you put the

wrist guards on them to rollerblade? That's what it reminds me of. Oh, boy. Maybe Grogu will get a knee racket soon. Imagine Grogu a rollerblading. Okay. It might help him keep up with the armor. What Bo says to him, though, is she's putting on this wrist launcher show is, don't worry, my dad was the same way. He's just proud of you. More Bo family history, which I know you're tracking. More insights into how Bo sees Dinn, but also, crucially, more Bo Grogu bonding. This has been a central part of of the season. What do you think this is priming us for? The clan of two becoming the clan of three or a grogou response if there is a rupture and he is very attached to the person on the other side. Well, I think Grogu, like, if we need Grogu to help with the mythosaur, Grogu really likes Bo, Bo is primed to that. Also, this is a big

episode for Bo gaining, I don't think she's doing in a calculated way, but gaining important allies, right? Clan Vizla is now on Bo's side. The armorer is on both side. You know what I mean? Like this is a huge... I have some questions about that. Yeah, I know you do. But like this is a huge win for Bo.

So I think she's just like winning friends and influencing people, the old Carnegie way. You know, and so that's how you get votes. I think it's fascinating that not only are we getting like Bo family history here, but it's specifically another mention of her father. Like I am, my spidey senses are tingling at like a, a, doublement. It's like, you know, if we return to a location a number of times or something like that, like, mentioned specifically of her father. Like, she's not talking about her sister. We know about her sister. She's not talking about her sister. What is her dad going to have to do with this season or maybe

future season? It's a great question. I hope we find out. I suppose, you know, we did hear like 15 times in this episode that they can't use their jet packs or their guns when they go to fight the raptor. so could just be another one of the season three reps, but hopefully it's a more significant setup, as you were indicating. When the challenge begins, Joe, Grogu looks so unsure. He looks afraid as he's gazing down at his dart thrower, his eyes, his frown, it is heart melting.

He looks back up at his dad for guys. This is seriously like one of my favorite stretches in the history of the show. I just thought this was so sweet. It was heart melting. And these are the little moments. Like, who would he look to? other than Din for not only encouragement, but counsel.

This is like the heart when we see that relationship. And Din does want to provide it to him. You know, there's a fun little bow in her load too where she says he doesn't know how to fire Dars, which I thought was rude. But you see the proud dad. He's got this. Trust me.

And we bill toward him saying after Ragnar shoots Grobu twice. And I do regret to inform everyone listening that Ragnar has to die now. I don't make the rules, but those are the rules. He shot Krogo in the chest with Mandalorian paintballs, and now he must pay. I guess he does pay kind of imminently, but he must pay more severely. Hanging out inside the intestines of a bird dragon thing for, what, four days? Like, we don't know how long. Certainly overnight.

Overnight, let's get a disease and we'll go look at the morning. I feel like that's, you know, punishment enough. That was enough. All right. Agree to disagree. agree to disagree. When Grogu looks, he looks so crestfallen that he has taken these blows. And when he looks up at dad, dad calls a timeout, Joe, gets out the whiteboard,

diagrams the winning play. Grogu, I've seen what you can do. It's okay. Show them. I mean, this huge moment, right? Like, for Grogu who has hidden, what he can do, this is a huge moment. But I love that you keep pitching Den as like a Little League die because to me he's reading as like a dance mom or a toddler

and tiara's mom and the kid is like, I don't want to do this. Padgette's life is not for me and did is like keep her to make it like what linked back? I don't know that too. I think I'm so locked onto the little ink comp because of the way they used the rock and then the

razor crest bobble in the Jedi episode, the Asoka episode for training and it was just like having a catch with dad. But yeah, like this is not only is it fun to see Grogo do the double force flip and embarrass, mortify Ragnar. But it is like a really significant thing,

not only that he did feel comfortable showing his force prowess in front of all these people after we have heard that he was in hiding for so long, he's done it. His use of the force has evolved consistently episode to episode. There were times where he only did it out of absolute necessity to protect himself, to protect din, et cetera.

Then he starts like, I'm hungry, I need a macaron. It's been building. It's been a progression. But like to be at center stage like this and let this many people know what you can do is the exact kind of thing he had spent half of his life avoiding. And I think it's cool that it's not just

that he felt comfortable. It's that Dinn helped him feel that it was okay. By saying it's okay, show them. It just reinforces the trust that he has in Dinn, the trust that he puts in Dinn. Great job, kid, Dyn says. Just lovely.

And again, you know, they're about to be parted for the rest of the episode and we feel so keenly in this moment. like the power of them together, the power of watching this tutelage, watching this trust continue to build. And I just hope we get a lot more of that in the second half of the season. Lovely to see Din have this, like, sweet emotional connection with Grogu. This is now where I enter some notes for the covert about foundling safety in general, right?

Because Ragnar gets scooped up, right? Basically immediately. No time for a debrief. What are we calling this creature? What do you want to go with? Oh, I don't know. Dino bird? Sure.

Has, Wikipedia not named it? I just think if we're going with like Dino Turtle, maybe we just go with Dino Bird. We build a consistent vernacular for this still unnamed location unknown planet that I would really like to know what it's called where it is.

We got to get some... The worst place... Yeah. Redfin or Zillow links to the armor. Like, what is your... Honestly, what is your in-universe, in-story explanation for this? Is it that they... That they pick somewhere so dangerous that no one would ever go looking for them there.

Yes. That's the only explanation you come up with. You have dropped Harry Potter reference in the form of Unbreakable Vow. So it is my turn to drop a Buffy Vampire Slayer reference and say there was a joke on Buffy in the later seasons. Buffy's younger sister, Dawn. And it was like, Dawn's in trouble must be a Tuesday. right? And this is how I feel about Ragnar's and trouble must be a Tuesday.

Like, we've seen this kid get attacked multiple times. Paz not paying enough attention, I think first and foremost. Secondly, again, general founding security lacking the covert. It's terrible. I guess like in addition to the,

yes, it's a danger to us, but maybe that means it's such a supreme danger that no one else will come find this element. Maybe it positions them to be more willing to go to Mandelor. When Dan and Bo are going to keep saying, presumably, actually you've been lied to, it's fine there. The mines, you can go into the mines, the living waters are there,

the air is not poison, you can breathe it. Maybe if they've spent every fucking afternoon having their fowndlings and taken to a nest where their empty Besscar now remains, they'll be more willing to say, you know what? Not sure I totally buy what you're saying, but let's go find out if the air is poisoned because these creatures keep eating our kids. Again, maybe this is another campaign promise that Bo can mate, right? Your child might be taken by like a weird Yeti creature or like we've encountered a few creatures that might eat your child, but it's not going to be a dino turtle or a dino bird. So come with me to mandala.

have to make a Bo campaign video now. I think it's a requirement. Katie, if you're listening, Collins. See, yeah, no kidding. Joe, this initial pursuit, Paz saying no blasters, it'll kill the child,

we'll hear multiple recurrences of this throughout the episode. Paz and Dinn, Paz runs out of jet fuel, okay? So, Bo outsmarts all of the bros by getting in a shit. Yeah, I got so upset, though,

when he's like, this happens every time. I'm like, then make a new plan. Then do something different. How many times does this happen? Yes. What are you doing?

But did you think this was like Chekhov's limited fuel reminder that this is going to come into play in a key moment? Probably if you've seen the fine film The Rocketeer, you will know that like there's a bullet hole at his pack

that gasoline that fuel leaks out of. You got to carry chewing gum with you. Listen. Yes, but I also do want to shout out on the visuals front. I do love this shot of Bo's ship and the Dino Bird both, you know, against the sun here. I've seen a lot of people compare it to this really cool shot from Apocalypse Now. But I was looking up like any interview where Carl Weathers talked about enjoying Apocalypse Now, and he's never said anything about that, which doesn't mean this isn't an homage to that.

But what I did find is that the director of Predator was like, I love Apocalypse Now, so I put a bunch of helicopter shots in my movie. The Predator, I was inspired by Apocalypse Now. Carl Weathers, star Predator. So perhaps it is a Predator homage more than an Apocalypse Now Amage. But anyway, I think it looks really cool. And I like the idea that it's like, again, throughout this episode, we're going to get a lot of like organic versus Beskar kind of binary moments. So I love that it's like it's a beast and a ship up against the sun like that. I love that.

And on that front, too, we're getting close to discussing the armorer's history lesson for Grogu about the importance and centrality of forging armor and the allegory of that armor. And so the idea of the Mandalorian's not being able to rely on typical means. the signifiers of their strength, their guns, their jet packs, needing to, like, hinge their tactics on a different kind of pursuit

in an episode we're already thinking about things like that does speak to this ability to adapt and change that we are so hoping will be more fully embraced by these characters.

When Boca tan, who, as he says, clowns all these bros, comes back and says, I found the layer I mapped it. Yeah. When she's looking at, When she's talking about the peaks and she says there are no higher than the peaks of Kermont, I did not pronounce that well.

I used to climb them in basic training. Did that give you, I used to bulls-eye wamp rats in my T-16 back home? They're not much bigger than two meters. It gave me a mix of that and Braun saying, you know, give me 10 men and I'll impregnate the bitch. Real like, let's scale the side of the eerie vibes. Braun, always top of mind for me. I did like the Shriekhock call out here, Joe, the Death Watch signet. I mean, so the armor says take the Shrikakak-Hawk contingent, whatever she says with you.

And the Shri-Hawk is the sigil of Death Watch. So let us never forget that the children of the watch or an offshoot of Death Watch, a terrorist group that Boatat was a part of. Thank you, Chapter 20 for our reminder. Did Bo feel like more at home? She's like, ah, the sigil of my terror group. I don't know. Sinking into a warm terrorist bath.

Thanks for the welcome. I have the living waters, but now I really feel. Love a terrorism bath. Okay. Can I do a brief mythology slash westerns corner? Oh my God, of course. So,

Westerns have always been really important to like the Star Wars in general. I mean, samurai films, Western films, Star Wars and general, the Mandalorian, specifically, the Mandalorian is like sort of this lone gunslinger coming, moving town to town, all that sort of stuff. There, this idea of Bo as the gunslinger who shows up to the town and there is a constant

recurring threat that is specifically hurting the children is like a classic Western trope, right? The gunslinger comes to town, there is like a bad cattle rancher or someone is like taking the children and like the, the, you know, the. The gunslinger is going to change everything and protect the town. And I love that idea because there's a direct, this is partially the plot of Shane, movie that you either have seen or have seen parts of in the film Logan. But there's a direct line from Shane in season one episode two, The Mandalorian.

Thank you for bringing peace to my valley, Kuhl says, to Mando, right? That's a Shane line. So this idea of like, and then also I was thinking about Book of Boba because the way that Boba like ingratius himself is by saving the chieftain's child, right? Like we love a Book of Boba reference here on the podcast, right? Always. Yeah. And then I was thinking about High Noon, a Western that I really love. And the story of High Noon has a, you know, a gunslinger-ish character played by Gary Cooper.

he's going to get married and his wife, fiance is like a devout Quaker, and she's like, no violence. And he's like, yeah, but just one more job. I got to shoot this one guy. And she's like, no violence ever, no violence ever. And then that's her creed. And then she abandons it, spoilers for high news, abandons it at the end of high noon to shoot someone to protect her husband because choosing the one you love over a rigid creed that you adhere to is

like something that is, I think, very interesting and at the forefront for taking off your helmet to let your child paw your face, whatever. Rub your jaw line. This darling old claws. I was reading, rereading some of the empire interviews that Favro Faloni and Rick gave. And Rick said, Rick who was directing again the last two episodes of the season, says, The purity of Grugoo brings out the best in the people around him. this next season continues to attach to that idea.

Din Jarn is having to face the decision to take off his helmet because of this child. How he can put himself right with his own beliefs and how to then look forward is a lot of what this season is about. So I don't think we've seen as much grappling with that as we thought we would because he seems like pretty cozily ensconced with the covert. But I'm hopeful that that push and pull, which is something that we find really interesting is going to be something, you know, again, Rick is directing the final two episodes of the season, is something we'll get towards the end.

And to bring us out of Western Corner, though I do have one more Western reference later in the episode, bring us out of Western Corner through Mythology Corner. I'll just say that one of my favorite comps that people are making for this episode is Beowulf. Beowulf is like one of our foundational stories, and it has to do with a mythical beast that is like continuously constantly killing and ravaging a clan.

and our hero who finally puts a stop to it then becomes chieftain, et cetera, et cetera. So if, like, Bo is in the Beowulf pole position, like, that's a good place for her to be. If you've never read Beowulf, I just want to make a book recommendation and say, Maria Devana Headley and 2020 put out this really cool translation of Beowulf that has, like, bro in it.

Like, it sounds gimmicky, but it's actually, like, very good. So I really suggest it. So that has been Western and Mythology Corner. with House of Fire. Beautiful. Incredible. This is a rich text. I love that.

I love that Rick quote. And Grogu brings out the best in us, certainly, Joe. And he is going to get an opportunity to bring out the best in the armorer because Din has left him behind. I, season one of The Mandalorian,

I adored. I could not have loved it more. But every single episode, it drove me crazy that Din would leave Grogu and go off on his adventure or his quest. It just couldn't believe it. happened every single week. And so I felt myself sinking uncomfortably back into that din,

like why. And I guess it's nice he trusts these people. That's lovely. They feel at home and safe. But take him with you. And when the armorer says that he's too young, I just like, he looked up and cooed. I wanted him to be like scoreboard lady. Like let me run through the list of my achievements while you guys have been sitting here getting eaten by wild animals. How to stare you? How dare you? It's a very capable baby. Do you remember in season one when Dinn just like left him in the ship?

Just like locked him in a closet in the ship? Multiple times. He's in the ship when he wanders out and ends up bonding with Pelly. He's in the ship when the droid nearly fucking murders him during the prison heist episode. The list is long and distressing. And I don't want Dinn falling back into that happen. I hope he reserves this for the times like this

when he's around people he trusts. Anyway, Din rant over. Like we said, we were going to have a lot of notes for the characters in this episode. This did, this separation of Din and Grogo, it did give us an opportunity for a pretty fascinating armor Grogu's sequence. She summons him into her workshop

with The Come Grogu if you wish to become a Mandalorian, there's much work to attend to. And this is the moment you alluded to previously where he's panting and he's running, he's really hustling. You know, he's like working his way around track. He's just checking this time. It needs a gatorade. What's the Fitbit saying? How many steps have you taken? Where's this floating egg? It's just like, I can barely contain myself. It was so darling.

But what does the running show us? What does the panting show us? That he does? This is what he wants. This is the choice that he is actively making. Do you want to be a Mandalorian? Yes. Let me run in and show you how much I want that. This was like so meaningful and sweet. He pulls up. at the forge. This is one of my favorite Grogu movements, as you know, when he pulls up his chair at a table.

There's like a low little like footstool bench that he's like, that is like perfect Grogu leaning size. One more to me, Grogo is a cat thing because like,

I don't know if you do this with Boggio, but we, any, if we know Halo wants to get to a certain high surface, we'll just. Yeah.

Completely set up a room to ensure that he has the easiest path possible to whatever he needs, whether that's a high surface, a sunbeam. So he'll have, he just moved lots of little boxes for him to jump on to make his path of something easier. It reminded me so much of that.

This is when we get the clip that opened our episode today. The armorer talking about the forge, the heart of Mandalorian culture, shaping Mandalorian steel. Just as they do that, we shape ourselves. We all begin as raw. Or we refine ourselves through trials and adversity. This made me think powerfully of Rebel Season 4 and a stretch with, Sabine and her father, another Mandalorian family insight stretch, Joe, in terms of the clan crease tracking that we're doing. We get some Clan Ren. Ezra asks, this is in the sequence

where the Dutch is, this Bescar targeting machine is something that they are trying to eliminate. And Ezra says, why not make your armor out of something different? Which from Ezra's perspective is a reasonable question. And Sabine says, Ezra, the armor I wear is 500 years old. I reforged it to my liking, but the battles, the history of the blood all lives within it. And the same goes for every Mandalorian. And then Sabine's father says, this armor is part of our identity. It makes us Mandaloreans who we are. Interestingly, Boca's hand then replies, and now it's going to make us dead. But Bo and Sabine get to a better place by the end of the episode. That's when the Dark Sabre handoff occurs. So how did this, how did this strike you not only that call back to Sabine, but

this idea of the armor as, again, an allegory for identity and evolution and life. This is the constant, interesting push and pull of the Mandalorian culture. Because this idea, we've now seen twice the sound of the forge bringing a main character to a flashback. Friend of the pod, my friend John suggested smashbacks should be what we call them. Wow. Flashback to smashbacks, yeah. I like it. This idea, yeah, something that we've talked about a lot.

We talked about this a lot with Andor and with Lord of the Rings, this idea of like individual communities and identities and celebrating what makes us different. What are our particularly local rituals, all this sort of like that. So I want to, I mean, on the one hand, I want to respect the. very distinctive culture of the Mandalorian. But on the other hand, there is this thing about putting a helmet on something that sort of empire-like, you know, we talked about this with the comp with a stormtrooper, like homogenizes, flattens something.

This is why we are desperate to not have a helmet on Little Gros' head because, like, it just, so it's this push and pull of the Mandalorian culture of, like, giving you a place to belong, giving you a community, giving you a family, giving you a family, giving you a family. We are pro all of that. But when it robs you of some of your own identity, some of your individuality, that's where I at least start to rebel when it means you can't take off your helmet when you can't smooge someone when you can't have adult sexual intercourse. You know, like it's a problem. So I feel like what I'm hoping we're moving towards is Bo Catan is this like almost Martin Luther

reformer proclamations on the door figure of this Mandalorian sect of like follow me leave your helmet on if you want to but also you get to take it off if you want to like this is what I want for the future of Mandalorians is like

if you want to leave your helmet on cool but you're not a Mandalorian not a Mandalorian if you take your helmet off right? Yeah well I think that's also why I enjoyed that this moment because the armorers poster character for the opposite of that, right, for that strict adherence.

And so I liked the fact that this were called Sabine specifically because she is, I think, most emblematic of all the Mandalorian characters we've spent any time with of interrogating the idea of what it means to be a Mandalorian, what it means if the people who are Mandalorians and consider themselves Mandalians cast you out, don't want to welcome you back in, and finding away ultimately to embrace your culture and your traditions and also your individuality. And part of that is that Sabine takes her helmet off, but part of it is she paints her armor and not just in the way that every character is a new color way that's dropping soon on sneakers, but her specific flair and artistic impression is so impressive.

You could not mistake Sabine's armor for a single other characters ever. It would be impossible, and that's so cool. and so wonderful. And I liked watching Grogu's face because we're about to head into the flashback that he's pulled into, but it does feel like before that, before the hammering before the smashback.

I love smashback. He is thinking about what she's saying, what the armorer is saying. And I like this idea of forging your armor, your identity, your path, and making sure it is yours inside of a family

that you want to embrace. Like, how can Grogu again as the symbol of an embrace of multiple different facets? And, like, you can map this on pretty closely to, as we've talked about a lot, Jedi Creed. And where that is limiting and where there is room within it to work or where you need a character like Asoka to say, this is not for me, but that's not going to stop me from wielding my lightsabers and helping people. Exactly. So that's like a – you don't – the idea of the armor are saying not just this is essential to who we are, but you don't have to be the same forever.

I really want a character like the armorer and the covert more widely to like pay attention to the things they are actually saying and where the power can be inside of that. And all it's going to take for them to change their point of view is one hot 50-year-old to ride on top of mythological beast. Listen. I mean, we're probably only three or four cents away.

You know, I can't wait. I can't wait. I will say when the armor is working on what we learn is the rondol for grogou. If we had not gotten the Ragnar helmet question, we would have been so afraid. So afraid. I was still afraid for a second.

Yeah, I was still afraid for a second. Oh, Joe. You mentioned the parallels to the Dinn flashback. You know, when Grogo was pulled in as he hears the hammering of the Ford, she's pulled into his Order 66 flashback, which we will talk about in a second here. The first glimpse that we had gotten of Grogo's Order 66 history

was from Luke during Boba Fett, Chapter 6, the training. And Luke asking him, do you remember back home? Would you like to remember? Let me help you remember and placing his hand on his head. And Grogu looked very afraid, very trepidacious. And so to see this memory sparked in a different fashion, once again, you have the Jedi part of Grogo's experience. You have the Mandalorian part of Grogu's experience.

And it gives us a fuller sense of who Grogu is with both of those aspects of his life. I love that. And with the din mirroring that you mentioned, because we get those. flashbacks in season one at the forge. Like, it maps on again really closely. The Clone Wars death pursuit of an army coming to get you when you are just a child, your family, Dyn's parents, the Jedi Order, being slaughtered around you, this timely rescue. Like, they have, their traumas are specific to them in the context.

It's their own. But they have this deeply entwined, shared experience. And it's just one more rich aspect of their. Bond. Daddy Den. Should we talk about Order 66 a little bit more? Should we talk about what Grobu saw?

I'm always thinking about Order 66 and I can't watch to talk about it. You love it. Let's bring on Ben. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back

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We must, of course, speak at length about what we got here in this Grogu flashback, this Order 66, who saved Grogu, reveal. There is so much to discuss, and that means it is time to go from a clan of to to a clan of three. Benjamin. Dance man. That clip pumps me up every time. I love it. It's great.

It's great. And so was learning at last, who saved Grogu from the Jedi Temple. We have a lot to discuss today. This is our Order 66 Flashback Limburg Lour Corner featuring Keller and Beck, the 5001st, slicing through the Jedi Temple door has been. Before we get into everything that we actually learned here, let's do a little quick recounting of what some of the popular fan theories were on this front, because we had a lot of time

to speculate and wonder, did either of you have a pet theory? Did you have somebody you wanted to see or somebody that you were expecting to see? I totally called Kellorin Beck. I just, I didn't mention it on the podcast, but yeah, privately. In any of your recordings or writings, you failed to mention, but you you held that close. I did want a spoiler for anyone. Yeah, I saw that cork board in your house, right? And it was just like, it was like Ahmed's face at the middle and then like all the other kids, it's smaller around him. Yeah.

I was particularly fond of the like Mace Window isn't actually dead theory because I love a bring back Mace Window movement. So, yeah. Just about any Jedi-affiliated character who is known to have survived Order 66 or at least not totally confirmed to have died, not to have been seen dismembered, was mentioned as a possible candidate. So I kind of liked the idea of maybe having an Obi-Wan Kenobi tie in and having one of the other inquisitors show up before they turned potentially. But really, it was just like, you name it. I mean, I'm sure there was someone somewhere, some when on Reddit who said, how about Kelran Beck? But that was definitely not a leading candidate. I mean, you heard people mention

And Obi-Wan and Yoda, maybe when they went to the temple after the attack, they could have found Groku hiding there. Jokasta knew, our favorite librarian, or Barris Afi or... Yeah, there were a lot of Barris heads out there. Yeah, Luminar. Berris was a really popular theory. Very. Artu would have made some sense, I think, because it seemed like he recognized Grogu potentially when Luke shows up in season two, although he could have just been recognizing Grogu's species. And, you know, maybe Plokun is always a popular choice just because Dave Flonnie loves Plowcun and used him as a spoiler-free stand-in for Luke in the script for the season two finale.

And I kind of like the idea of Anakin or Palpi just kind of carving out an exception to Order 66, knowing that they needed Grogu and his high M-count for some future purpose. But really, like, you name it, any character, Quinlan Voss came up. The bad batch were mentioned at one point. So really just any character we knew could have been a candidate. And I am after all that set up and buildup and speculation, I am satisfied. I am fulfilled. I am very happy with how they handled this. Yeah.

I mean, this was really a treat and a fun surprise. I think the fact that this felt like a real twist after so much speculation was a cool thing and an increasingly difficult thing, actually, to pull off inside of Star Wars where we all have so much time to. to discuss every possibility. I think Ben to the Obi-1 Canobi Path Point, like we'll chat about that

a little bit more in a couple minutes because the path connection still feels very much in play here. We see little Grogo, even tinier,

even babyer than he is in our present timeline. And my dear companions, our beloved Bubba looks so afraid. And it is just heart melting. And we get our answer

quickly because we hear multiple Jedi invoke Kellarin's name. We hear get him to Keller. We hear another Jedi shout the elevator, get the youngling to Keller and go. And so it seems at least like Kellarin didn't just happen to be there, happened to scoop Grogo up when the elevator doors open. He is tasked with saving Grogo. He is chosen to save Grogo. And so was your read on this that, okay, similar efforts were made with all younglings. Once shit went down, there's a communication. going out to get people in a position to help?

Or was Grogu given extra protection and care because of that extra special M count that you're alluding to, Ben? How did you read that? Yeah, it's interesting because we see younglings in groups in the prequels typically, right? And Grogu's all alone. So is that because he's been shunted off somewhere? Is it because he's the sole survivor? Is it because he is special in some way?

It's hard to say. I mean, I think if we go a little bit into what we know about Kellen Beck and his backstory, that it would make sense for him to be the person that other Jedi would be saying, let's get this Padawan to Kelran. But it certainly could be a sign of Grogu being special and set apart in some way. I mean, I hate to think that they were like, let's leave the other less special Padawans with lower M counts to be massacred. Sorry, Riva. Let's get Grogu to safety.

Everyone else fend for yourself. So that's kind of dark. I'd prefer to think maybe that he just happened to, perhaps he was training with those particular Jedi at that particular time. Because the alternative, it's like a triage, like let's prioritize Grogu over everyone else. I mean, of course, Grogu's foremost in our minds and hearts too. But I'd like to think that the Jedi would not play favorites in that way. As always, we have some notes for the entire Jedi order through the lines of 466. I have so many notes today.

When the elevator door does open, we see Keller and Beck. Before you tell us a little bit more about who Beck is, Ben, we have to talk about Ahmed Best. Yeah, this is great because there's this moment. Grogu's going up in the turbolift and we're waiting for the reveal, right? We sense at that time, okay, we're finally going to get the answer here. It's like when Luke was taking the turbolift up to Gideon's flagship's bridge in season two and you're waiting for him to pull the hood down. And now we're seeing the same thing, the ticking up of as the floors go up and we're thinking,

who's it going to be? And it's Keller Beck. And now, I don't know what percentage of the audience at that time is thinking, oh, of course, Keller and Beck or even Ahmed Best, because he is not in his Gungen guys here, right? And that's why I think this is, it's a generous choice in a sense. I think it's a fitting decision. but they passed up potentially a bigger pop, right? Like if it had been Mace,

if it had been somewhere and better known, that you wouldn't have to look up who is Keller and Peck, oh, that's Ahmed Best, right, okay, he played Jarjar. A lot of people watching that are not knowing who this is, at least in that moment. And I think, as you said, they're so good at keeping secrets on this series. There's so much attention.

There's so many people trying to dig. And yet they have surprised us time after time, whether it's with Grogu or Luke or any of the other canon characters who have crossed over. And I was totally surprised by this, even as someone who is speculated about who could come back. I was not expecting this character, Ahmed Best, to play this prominent role in this show. So, of course, he has a decades-long history with this franchise. He played Jar-jar. He voiced Jarjar.

He was inside the mo-capped suit for Jarjar. And because of the way that Jar Jar Jar was received, he's had a difficult. experience in the Star Wars franchise. And you have to feel for him and everything he went through at that time. Yeah, I think that this is so genuinely just wonderful and cool to see I'm my best get the chance

to return to Star Wars in a widely celebrated way. Like, it's, you know, Ben, you wrote about this in your piece, but it is difficult to think of many things at the level of saving one of the most beloved and adored characters of all time to put you in the spotlight and let you shine.

And that's just a wonderful thing. And I'm so glad that he's getting this moment because the vitriol that he had, that was directed his way during the prequels was horrific. And jar-d-tour feelings aside, what I'm at best had to go through is like appalling. And to see him return to the franchise in a way that is meaningful to him and that is leading to this like shared celebration is, just a wonderful thing. I'm like so happy.

He's talked about it. I mean, he was 25 when he played Jar Jar, and he was a huge Star Wars fan. It was his favorite franchise, and he was part of the Star Wars fan community. And so there was no way to hide for him from the Jar Jar Jar backlash. And of course, there was a tremendous backlash, and he got death threats, which is ridiculous, of course. But we've seen that pattern repeat itself. And, you know, there were people who were. accusing Jar Jar of being, you know, sort of a racist stereotype. And he found that particularly

cruel and hurtful. And he just, he couldn't avoid feeling like this is my first major film role. And now I'm just tarred with the Jar Jar Reputation for the rest of my life. And he has talked about it. I mean, he contemplated suicide because of this, because of how he felt, because of the abuse that was hurled his way. So for him to come back to the franchise, and as we will discuss, this is not his first return to the franchise, but it's a far more prominent and meaningful one, I think. And it really does, you know, not that there's any reason to hold anything against Ahmed best, even if you don't care for Jar Jar as a character. But even if you don't care for Char Char as a character, now he's also the guy who saved Groku. So that really kind of wipes out any sort of sins that you might have

thought he committed before, which, you know, really you can't hold it against him anyway. I think it's so interesting. We talk a lot about the animated series as a sort of rehab for certain characters. And Jar Jar has gotten that treatment in the Falunian. Yeah, I was going to say that. Yeah, yeah. That Jar Jar and Anakin, et cetera, et cetera. But the meta rehab for some of these actors, like, I got really emotional 2017 Star Wars Celebration when Hayden Christensen came out and got a huge, huge response from the audience. I, like, wept watching that because, like, it was, whatever happened was not Hayden's fault, you know what I mean? And then Hayden looked so, like, overwhelmed to be, like, received that way. And then Ahmed Best had a similar treatment in 2019.

I cried when I watched that one, too, because, like, again, it's not, you know, it's not, it's not Hayden's fault. It's not Jake Lloyd's fault. You know, and so, like, as prequel fans grow up, become, you know, the people who go to Star Wars celebration, as, you know, we have some time and perspective away from this, sort of thing. You know, it was never right what happened to many of those people, but the fact that they are able to be seen and received by the fandom, first and foremost, and then for Hayden to get to come back and play Anakin again, however I feel about the Obi-1 series, like, that was a really cool thing to have happened.

And yeah, to give, as you say, to give Ahmed Best this gift of, like, you know, in screenwriting, there's the trope of Save the Cat. Like, how do you make a character sympathetic have him literally save a cat that's, Like there's a great screenwriting book called Save the Cat. Save the Grogu. For the proof that Grogu is a cat, Joe. But Save the Grogu is Save the Cat times a thousand. Like, what a gift to give.

And I thought he was great in this. Yeah, I thought I got really emotional about it. So, yeah. Yeah. And he's also played a big part in the creation of this character, which I guess we can talk about. Yeah, tell us. Tell us a little bit more about who Keller and Beck is. Yeah.

So, Kellron Beck was sort of the star slash host of a game show that aired in 2020 just on YouTube. It's kind of a web show and on the Star Wars Kids channel. And it's kind of Star Wars meets Legends of the Hidden Temple, which was enough of a pitch for me to watch some of it at the time. And contestants play Padawans, basically. So you have like a three-round show and there are obstacle courses where you're retrieving lightsaber parts. And there's quiz about Star Wars knowledge, and then there's another obstacle course where you're getting khyber crystals. And so it's sort of themed in that way. And Kelran Beck, played by Best, is the host.

He's sort of presiding. He's the master of ceremonies. And he's in character as Kelrin Beck, who's this Jedi master, whose job is sort of a supervisor of paddouins. And in an interview that he did with Star Wars.com this week, Best said, I see Caleran as this journeyman Jedi who becomes a professor who wants to be a teacher, not a reluctant teacher, not someone who's thrown into teaching, who wants to influence, who wants to show Padawans how to become a greater version of themselves. So he's very much a mentor, which is why it would make sense for him to be someone that other Jedi would say, let's get these Padawans to Kowran.

Let's get this one Padawan. One important Padawans that we care about. We're watching you. Jedi Order. Everyone else leave them for Anakin to mow down. Let's get Grogw out of there. Maybe if everyone else had their own, like, self-propelling hovercraft, they, too, could have made it out. Joe, it's a great point. The shine, like, on the perfectly maintained little egg that he's in at this point.

Oh. But he's not just a teacher. He's also a fighter. And he has a great nickname, the sabered hand, which is wonderful. Yeah. And Joanna has formally requested. that we begin referring to her thusly. Yes.

But only while I'm podcasting. Like not, yeah, the sabered mic. Love it. We're all in the takes. On the show, he has a purple lightsaber, which was partly a tribute to Mace. And I would imagine that they switched it up to green here because they probably didn't want anyone to be confused and think that this was Mace and maybe the part had been recast. And that probably would have led to even more. fusion about who this was potentially.

Can I just say that when the door opened, we see the saber before we see him, and the door started to slide, and I was like, oh, so not Mace. Like, it was green. And I was like, oh, so I was immediately like, oh, not Mace. And I was like, oh. So, yeah. Yeah. So this is a fairly low profile.

I mean, this show is not even on Disney Plus, right? So for him to make the leap from this game show for kids to the flagship series where he's saving Grogu, that's. quite a glow-up, I would say. And he had a big hand in just designing this character and his backstory and his name and what motivates him. So he really had a role in creating this character. And I don't know exactly when and how it came about that it occurred to everyone. Hey, let's get Kellran Beck in The Mentorian. But wow, just what a decision. And I think it's really special, not just because of what this means for Ahmed Best and his place in the franchise. But

but also potentially what it means for Jar Jar Binks, which we can get into also. There might be almost a double layer of rehabilitation going on here, not just for the actor, but the character. Let's hit that really quickly because when the chase ensues, and we get ultimately to the newbie and yacht, and we're thinking of Joanna's favorite movie, Attack of the Clones, how could we not be?

You doing this to me on the same day that behind the scenes, I'll just say, Bill Simmons hit me twice with that you refuse to watch the Sopranos take on a Succession podcast record this morning. So like the slander continues. Anyway, yeah, attack of the call. It's my favorite movie. Yeah. Your favorite movie that you routinely refer to as a cinematic classic?

A masterpiece. I think it's a masterpiece. Yeah. We have to wonder. the with some friends of mine lines, seeing this ship that is a Nibu spacecraft that we associate with Padmae. And how can we not think of another senator from Nibu and wonder if Jarjar sent that ship? What do you guys?

Yeah, there is that only three. I'm not 100, but I'm pretty close to 100. Joe's at 100. The Sabred Mike is at 100. You heard any of your folks for Jarjar. Ahmed Best saved Grogu and Jar Jar saved Grogu? Yeah, the symmetry of that is pretty undeniable. I mean, there are only three prominent Nabu-related characters on Corrissant that we know about.

There's Padme, there's Jar Jar, there's Palpi. I guess you can't put it past Palpi to lay a trap that would steer escape Jedi straight into his clutches. But I can't imagine that they brought back Ahmed Best to play another character who gets manipulated by Darsidius. I don't think they would do that. So it could be Padmae because we know she saw the temple burning. She could have sent help. And there is also, I suppose, a pleasing symmetry in Padmae saving younglings while Anakin kills them. And it would also tie Grogu into the Skywalker saga in a way, right?

For better or worse, he would have been saved from Vader by Padma, just like Luke and Leah, where it kind of connects him to his Jedi mentor in Bukubova, Luke, right? So that wouldn't be bad either. I wouldn't mind that outcome. But I think if you bring back on it best and we're thinking about Jarjar, you're dropping hints here pretty strongly that this has to be Jar Jar Jar related. And what I like is that, first of all, Jar Jar was manipulated into giving the green light to the Grand Army of the Republic, right? Yes. It played a pretty central role in the ascendance of the empire.

We all make mistakes. Yeah, you know, tough. Yeah. He was new on the job. And Palpatine's a master of manipulation. He's, you know, he's fooled others. So we can give him a pass, perhaps. But I think it's appropriate that because he was the one who played a crucial role

and just the creation of this army, that he would also play some role in helping Grogu escape this army when it turns on the Jedi. And there's a long history of Jarjar as a secret Sith theorizing, right? Yes. The idea that he was not hoodwink, that he was actually playing a part in this, right? So people have been trying to rehabilitate Jar Jar Jar or... Darth Jar Jar is... Yeah, Darth Jar Jar is one of the best fan theories of all time.

I mean, it's bullshit. It's just delightful. Yeah. Delightful. And what I love about this is like they can invoke Jar Jar here with the ship without... I don't really need to see Jar Jar Jar with love and respect to everyone involved in the Mandar. But to have him invoked is wonderful. This is a nice little wink to us.

It's nice for Ahmed Best that, you know, Jarjar is an important part of his past. But we bring him back. We don't have to typecast him as Jarjar. He doesn't have to be Jar Jar. But we're thinking about Jar Jar because he's here and because we infer that this could very well be Jar Jar's ship because we know it's not Padme's ship or at least it's not the ship that she takes to Mustafa, which is occupied around the. this time. So it makes sense. You know, this is like a royal yacht, basically. So I guess you could say that

that might make it more likely to be Padma's, or maybe it's a loner. Who knows. But I think it makes sense, right? Because this is the royal Nabu security forces. But that's not like the Imperial Guard. It's not like the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, I guess. It's not like a, it's not just as a bodyguard for the queen or the king or whatever. That's just what the security force is called. So it makes sense for the senator from Nabu. Remember when Ahmed Best and Space Mounties saved Grog? So I think it makes sense that Jarjar would play this part.

And it's also nice because, as you said, there have been in the Floniverse in the Clone Wars, some attempts to show Jar Jar being a bit more heroic during the Clone Wars than he's shown to be in the prequels. But the last time we see him, really. He's got a romance. He's got some fascinating arcs in the animated verse. I love it.

Which, yeah, it very much fits in with Faloni's mission of, you know, sort of saving the prequels from themselves, tying all these trilogies together, adding depth that the movies didn't have time for, didn't have a screenwriter for. And we've seen before, you know, we Jar Jar Jar attends Padme's funeral, right? That's the last time we sort of see him on screen. But there's a book called Empire's End Aftermath by Chuck Windeg that takes place after the Battle of Endor. And at that point, Jarjar is back on Nabu, but it's sort of sad and tragic. He's like a street performer who's shunned by everyone because of his role in the ascendance of the empire. People have not forgotten about that. But he's beloved by children.

He's like an entertainer of refugee children on the planet, even as the humans and the Nabu, the Gungans. shunned him, which sort of mirrors the real-life reception to the character where a lot of kids enjoyed Char Char Char. Charter was four kids while the adults in many cases hated him. So I think it's nice because that's sort of a fitting, but sad and tragic

ending for the character. It's nice to know, or at least to strongly suspect, that he played a part in getting Grog's out of there. And if that is, in fact, what happened, then maybe we will get that clarity in the future because one of the really lovely things about this is that we have this

huge download of new information, huge question answered. But we have so many questions left. Like, okay, who saved Grogu next? And how about after that? I mean, this is like half of his life from here that he isn't hiding. And if we think back to all those, you know, insights that we get, like in the Jedi episode in season two, when Asoka is sharing with Din or later in Boba, when Luke and Asoka are speaking about Grogu's past. And of course, that's when we get the first glimpse of his order 66 history, like the idea that he had to hide his abilities, which is also very much top of mind for us in this episode, is he showcases his abilities in front of so many observers. So will Grogu be a part of the path from Obi-1 Canobi? Will he be moved by this

network and protected by this network? Any theories on who is going to, I mean, presumably we'll keep getting in this backstory in parcels, you know, every maybe just a couple of per season, every couple episodes, who knows what the pacing will be, you know, they want to make, they want to make Mando forever, guys. So who knows how long it'll take to learn everything? But at some point, we will. Any theories for who we might see helping to protect Grogo next or when that protection might be interrupted or what we might learn. Yeah, I guess almost every theory that was in play before about who could save it. It's still in play, right? So it's just multiple saviors. So if you thought that it was Quinlan Voss before, let's say, it could very

well be Quinlan Voss now because he's mentioned in Obi-Wan Kenobi in connection with the path. So I guess the question is, did Jarjar or Padme or whoever is responsible for leaving this ship and getting them off planet, are they also playing a part? Are we going to further burnish Jarger's reputation here because he set up the path, it turns out, and he's saving a bunch of Jedi and force sensitive people? He could be a true hero. Or, it could be someone else. Maybe it's someone involved with the formation of the rebellion. Maybe it's Bail or Padme or Man Mothma, who knows people who are involved with the creation of the rebellion. So any of these people that we've thought of, and it would be nice, I think, to have just more ties

between this series, between Andor, between Obi-Wan Kenobi, even if it's largely, I mean, that's Follone's mission, as we talked about last week, to try to unite all of these trilogies and stories and plot threads together. So I'm sure he's at least motivated by the idea of trying to intertwine things. This was like one of the great things. You know, in addition to everything else, we've already discussed about why the back choice is so, so exciting and so cool. Like, like you're saying, Ben, because any of those other theories can eventually still

be true, like, I really got a kick out of the Luke stuff in the season two finale. But I was really, this team, this will be Ezra before it wound up. Luke and I remember like the conversation at the time where a lot of people were like, okay, this would be amazing, right? If you're a rebel said, you thought it would be amazing. And a lot of other people like, I don't know who that is. Wouldn't it be weird if I didn't know who rescued Grogo? And why? Why would it be weird? Like, it's an exciting opportunity to expand our character set and the moments where it is a Luke or I was never, a part of the Mace Window is still alive, hive. But with, you know, with love and respect for

everyone who is. Like, it doesn't always have to be. There are dozens of us, Mallory. Yeah, and I'm thrilled for all of you. We saw him go out the window and then what?

You know what I mean? Yeah. We saw his, the electrocuted skeleton go out the window. Yeah. But it's like a one for us, one for them.

Yeah, like let's build out the world and the universe. That's part of the point. Toss a bone to the Foloni fans and then also work in Luke for everyone else, right?

You can please everyone, hopefully, or at least that's what they're trying to do. You could get yourself in trouble when you try to please everyone at the same time, but I think they have managed it, at least for most of this series. Well, to go kind of in the other direction from, hey, show us people and things and ideas we haven't seen before and get us energized anew. Can we talk about Chaucer for a second? Because this is the second Mandalorian episode in a row that was prominently featuring Choruson during a key stretch of the. episode. Corrassan has also been very central to Bad Batch this season. These two shows are airing in tandem. It is completely possible, even though they're operating in different timelines, though maybe not if we're in flashbacks in Mando, that we will get some sort of overlapping reveal.

What is your leading theory right now for why we're spending so much time on Corrassant? Is this just all about building toward the Palpi cloning connection? I mean, we go to the Monument Plaza. We see Umate again. Like, we're seeing identical visuals from. last week, what do you think the show is guiding us toward on the Corrassan front? Yeah, I think just showing the same plaza and mountain was probably just a nod back to last week just to remind us that Perch was part of the same show that we are watching here. Can't let us forget last week's episode. No.

Yeah. Let's make sure that that's app of mind for everyone. Ben's bizarre nickname for Pershing, which is Perch. But we also saw Corrassant this week in the trailer for Jedi Survivor, which comes out next month, Calcastis looks to be visiting Corrason as well. The nice thing is you don't have to stretch as hard to find a reason to be on Corrason as you do say Tatouin, right? You know, when people are sort of sick of how much Tatooine we get, well, that's because, as Luke says, if there's a bright center of the universe, Tatuines the planet's farthest from. So you have to

keep coming up with confluded reasons for everyone to be at the farthest place from the bright center of the universe. This is the bright center of the universe. So it would make sense for our characters to be here, right? And I don't know whether this is just sort of set up for potentially Asoka, right? If part of the Asoka storyline is how did the New Republic fail? How did we get the resistance? How did we get the First Order? Which the Mandalorian has already been touching on. Maybe Mon Mothma shows up in that show or even this show, having been such a prominent part of Andor, perhaps we could see her crossover and sort of unite these series, because she's obviously around. So I think just by showing Koreson, I mean, right now you have at the peak

of the empire in the flashbacks or in the bad batch, at least, then it's sort of the center of operations. So it would make sense that you get to see, okay, here's how the empire is consolidating control. If you want to attack the empire in some way, then you have to strike at the heart. So I think any groundwork that's being laid just for the political developments of the next few decades, setting up the sequel trilogy, as we discussed last week, would make sense to visit Khorasan. And of course, you have Palpi there, so you can talk about Zillowlo to erupt out of the center of Mania Plaza. We got one on the bad match. I know.

This theory, or maybe it's a rumor, I don't know how quite how to categorize it, that Genevieve O'Reilly as Mamathma is going to become like a figure who shows up again and again across these various properties is something that really excites me because like, you know, first of all, she's incredible in Andor. This is, you know, I can't record about Star Wars. I'll talk about Andor, I guess. I'm legally obliged. But like, you know, she's, she, they don't have to, like, deage her, right?

She's 46. She can, like, stretch in and around these timeframes and timelines and stuff like that. And, like, as a figure, as a figure who is part of the rebellion and then part of the flawed, you know, Republic, I'm so interested in the role that she played and all of that. So a lot of the themes we were talking about last week. But I can think of no figure better to sort of connect the dots on all of that than Mamma. Yeah. What's pairing up to? That's what we're all wondering.

Just have to keep the and or fit game. Yes. Intact. What's your creepy fundamentalist daughter up to? You know what I mean? I hope that arranged marriage is working out well to the mobster's son. Yeah. I guess the only danger is there is that as we've been discussing, like the Mandalorian excels

when it fires on a different cylinder than Indoor does usually, right? These shows have different strengths. And if one crosses over into the other's wheelhouse, then potentially it exposes that one show does certain things better than the other. So having been spoiled by Tony Gilroy's Monmouthma, will we be as excited by John Favro's Monmouthma? You know, no shots, obviously, at the portrayal, which will be wonderful either way. But will the dialogue that will be fed to Monmouthma be as scintillating and as subtle and as nuanced in the Mandalorian as it was in indoor. I agree with you. and I think Genevieve O'Reilly is, like, for me on the level of Ewee McGregor,

where, like, can always rise above whatever the material is. You know what you mean? And just sort of, like, infuse that sort of nervy yet ethereal quality that Mamathma has, her creation of Mamma has. So, yeah. Last question, before we go, before we leave Order 66 Corner. is Grogu going to share this incredibly central part of his life with Din? How will Din start to learn these things about Grogo?

This is like really top of mind for me because this is such an essential thing in Grogu's arc and Din doesn't understand it. And Asoka and Luke have been able to access Grogu's past through the force, but obviously that's not an offer for Din unless Joe has a new entry in Secret Force user today. We'll find out later. So I'm wondering if that's something that you two are thinking about or think matters or if you think we will see Dinn learning about Gros history at any point in the near future

or if this will just be something that we are learning through Gros' memories. I guess his vocabulary could expand very rapidly. No, because when he starts talking, they're going to slap a helmet on him, so no. I know. My desires are in conflict here because I want him to be able to be able to. Tell Dind everything, but I obviously just want him to keep cooing and babbling for literally the rest of my life. I mean, the first person we ever saw Force Heel, right, was Grogu.

Right? We saw that before we saw Ray do it. So, like, who is to say that Grogu will not, you know, given the massive M count, like, won't be able to share visions with Den? Because, like, I would love a sequence where they can, like, back and forth, like, his traumatic childhood and Grogu's, you know, rescue. If they can both watch the armor forge something at the same time, then they can both have simultaneous traumatic flashbacks.

Hey, we're having parallel PTSD here. Let's talk about it. Let's hash it out. But I do, I love that, Joe, and I, what I really want is for Grogu to want to share that with Din, you know, to get to, for us to get to see him say, dad, or say through the force, this is a huge part of who I am. I need you to know this. Like, wouldn't that just be one of the most special things we ever got to watch?

And I feel like there's a lot of moments where Grogu is, like, giving me sort of almost a version of Yoda's like, huh? Like, I'm not going to say what I think here, because he's not saying anything. But, like, there are moments where you get, like, Grogu's. Yeah, Grogu looks like troubled. Rogu disagrees. You know what I mean? Like, like, leveled up in terms of facial expressions, like, has the puppet? Like, the pained expressions that we.

that we saw during the vision this week. Yeah. It's not, I don't think it's puppetry, I think they're using a lot more digital effects on Grok's face than before. Yeah. He's definitely gotten more expressive, which is great because every other character is wearing a helmet at all times.

So to be able to see a facial expression is great. But I guess it's also possible that what with Asoka coming up soon, that we might see Asoka stroll in again before the end of the season. And she could serve as the intermediary again, as she did in the past, informing Dinn what Krogu's name was and what his history was and just catching up on the visions,

the memories that have been unlocked here and sharing those with Dinn. I love it. Okay. Anything else about Order 66 or Kellerman Beck or Correscence Monument Plaza or any of it? I've said this before, but Order 66 never gets old for me. I agree. The number of times we've seen it across different media. Do you think the sickos also love visiting crime?

to watch the Wains die? Like, is this your thing? It's just every time we see a different person's experience of that event, I think it tells us something so meaningful about this seismic moment in time. Cal or Canaan or Grogu or whoever it is. Canaan fucking shredded me. I was, that was a mess. That was really good.

I'm always thinking, like, you can't keep going back to this well because it's such a special agonizing moment. And yet every time, yeah, sure. Take me back there again. Should we say that Tim Morrison voiced all the all the clones in this sequence? Yes, he did.

Yeah, it was nice to hear that. I mean, nothing against Dee Bradley Baker and his incredible voice work as many, many, many, many clones. But to hear Tim do it again was special. Very cool. Okay. Ben.

Thanks, Ben. The hammers are pulling you back into another timeline. Thank you for joining. us here in the past. Thank you for having me. Joe, little baby Grog's in the past is in the hyperspace lane, the hammering pulls him back into the present.

We see his darling little face again, and the armor gives him his next piece of armor. It is made of the Baskar scraps, donated for the foundlings we saw Dinn make the similar donations, as you noted, from the Imperial Bessgar, from the client in season one. Clan Mudhorn. The Clan Mudhorn signet on this Rondel that she put. puts on top of the me thrill, on top of the Baskar shirts. Sure, you got the shirt

and says, Mandalorian Steel shall keep you safe as you grow stronger. You will grow into this Rondel as you grow into your station, foundling Grogu. Now, the score here, the music,

downright reverential, Joanna, on the one hand, precious, meaningful, beautiful, Grogo being more fully embraced into the culture. Grogo looks touched. He looks proud.

On the other hand, Can my guy even waddle with all of this Baskar weighing him down? And how worried are we about Chekhov's chest plate? What was the Mithril for? Was that not to protect him? Like, why would we need an extra little, like, dinner plate here? And, like, the hubcap. Okay.

Also, like, stop putting armor on this baby. Like, I just, like, don't like it at all. The Mithril, okay. It's under the robe. Like, it looks fine. But the hubcap, I... Okay, so this is where we're going to just very briefly detour back to Western Corner, because you're asking about Chekhov's...

Yeah. Someone's going to shoot Grogo in this new piece of armor, and that character will also have to die, like Ragnar. My first thought when I thought about, like, Chekhov's chestplate was Michael Keaton and Batman puts, like, this silver, like, dish down his shirt, And that's how he, like, does not get shot. We see this again and again and again. But then I was like, oh, Western Corner.

This happens with grief in the Mandalorian, right, Joe? In season one, he's got the best scar brick. And that's how he survives in chapter three. Clinice Wood, man with no name, fistful of dollars, puts a steel chest plate underneath his poncho to survive a shooting. That is then, of course, referenced perfectly. And back to the future, too, with Marty McFly, does the same thing. thing he learned it from Clint. And so,

but I don't understand how Grogu could walk with that thing on. It looks so heavy. Yeah. Get the armor off that baby. Less aerodynamic now for his force flips, too, you know? Raptor rescue. Yeah. It's difficult to leave this perfect Grogu stretch to now go talk about fighting another monster in

the volume, but we must. We must. This is where before they. they climb, they make the time to camp and to sleep, and I'm just like, are you worried about this kid dying or not? I don't understand it, but it does lead us to a campfire meal sequence where Bo asks Dinn how they eat when other people are around. Did you read this as Bo is genuinely interested and warming to the way?

Or Bo is trying to just, you know, fake it till she Mythesore makes it. I think it's a fake it till you mythosor make it moment for her. Here's my follow question. Uh-huh. Has she not eaten until now? Oh, boy. She's been with a covert for a while. Why is this the first time she's asking this question?

Maybe she was able to snack in private and this is the first. She's just been slurping? Just slurping. Slurping in the shadows? Slurping in the shadows? Okay. This is, okay, so of course, we get to see Katie Sockoff's beautiful face. Love that for us.

I was so happy for everyone. We see you as the leader of Wigwatch Corner. This was big for you. It was huge for me, but that is one resilient, flat iron bob. No trace of helmet hair on Boca Tan. And she's been starving under that helmet for like a week now, or however long she's been with the covert, right? And I like this whole what we learned about, you know, you're the leader of the war party,

the honor of staying by the fire, this is the way. Again, this is like two new pieces of creed we got in this episode, right? This and the speak moment. However, like, and the Midnight boys talked about this so eloquently, this question of, like, what you give up when this is your way of life. Like something we talked about in a previous episode of Ringerverse, as there's this moment from the Star Trek films where the characters are like eating beans around a fire and Kevin Feigy always talks about it as this, like, important moment of

of bonding, of character, like, there's so much rich territory in mind when characters are simply sitting and sharing a meal together. This is such a human thing to do. Shwarma. If you can't take your helmets off. Yeah. Peanut butter sandwich with Nat and Steve, like all this sort of stuff. And so, like, to miss out on this because you have to go scuttle off into the darkness

to slurp your soup or whatever it is, like, it's, uh, That doesn't seem like a very good way, a very good foundation to build your community on. Add it to the platform. Family-style dining. Shared plates. I mean, like, do they even eat Chinese food? Like, what do they do? I don't understand it.

The leader of the war party part that you mentioned, I thought it was particularly notable that it came from Paz because he was, you know, Mr. I'm standing at the gate telling you that you two are not welcome. Who are you even just an episode ago? And to see how quickly characters in this covert can go from questioning, doubting, judging, to embracing somebody in a new leadership role, it's that call-a-sar idea. Again, you know, a cow who cannot ride is no cow, but they respect and follow strength. We see that here. It's just the distance to following Bo, if she claims the mythosor, is shrinking minute by minute.

And I think, like, Bo must be tracking that, too. Oh, look how this character's behavior toward me has changed because I was able to find the layer. I was able to map the layer. I was able to lead us. They will follow me if I'm strong. And I like for Bo, like that that's been a source of resentment that not having the Dark Sabre has robbed her of people seeing her that way, even though she's always been the same character. And so now for her to feel like she's able to get that again, and I don't want her to think she needs the Mythosaur or the Dark Saber. we see she doesn't she's just a badass but to find her way back to that confidence i am a person

people will follow is going to be a it's a very healing breaking of a cycle right yes for her because i mean like in terms of leading like she's had all these like trial and trial and failure moments of leadership the mandolarian culture and so she's like when we see her broken down on that throne just sort of like leaning with her elbows on her knees just like at her lowest, she's building some of her confidence back. And she's doing it by helping foundlings all over the place, helping Grogu, saving din, like helping stupid Ragnar. You know, like it's, it's, again, gunslinger 101.

Let's very briefly talk about the actual saving of Ragnar and then of Paz. This is where they use the grappling hooks to scale the side of the mountain. I could not tell if this was supposed to. to look cool or if they were all supposed to look like lame laborer, like they were laboring very heavily to make it up. Was it supposed to look cool or lame? I couldn't tell. I was so confused because I was like maybe the point is that like Bo, because she's had this experience like is much better at it than everyone else. But I didn't really see that come through. And then I also, I mean, like we all love Pazzizla's like crazy torch weapon thing. But like maybe take it off

when stealth is involved and you got to climb a side of a cliff. notes, I have them. Yeah, wouldn't it be easier to climb if stealth aside for your own sake? It looks so heavy. I was like, sir, you are a large man. So it is like, you are working with enough here. Like, leave the pack. Behind.

Wild stuff. Fas, just a complete deufous. He's not the only one who makes some strange some strange decisions. Dan bless him. Thinks that the heat signature he spots is Ragnar. It is in fact three baby dino birds, you know, who among us has not made this mistake. It's in the foreground. We're seeing the empty Bessar helmets of the dead foundlings. It is upsetting. But we get the baby birds and then the mama bird. This is where Ragnar is

deposited from the innards to outside of this beast's mouth. And it is, on the one hand, we know we've been with Boba. We know how handy Baskar is if you've been ingested inside of a beast, Sarlac Pit in some cases, dino bird and others. Why does Ragnar not have to be able to bea? Why does Ragnar not have any like goo or saliva on him at all. As a bone. Dry as a bone, he comes out of that creature. Did not understand this. Very strange.

And then we get Joe another creature fight sequence as we did in episode one. Did you, can we go to Volume Visual Corner here for a second? Not just necessarily for this sequence, but just like the episode in general. Does something look strange to you with the jetpack flight images in particular or like when they land from the, when they land from flight onto a rock face, something just looks a little uncanny. I'm not a jet track scientist, but it doesn't look right to me. Yeah. Yeah.

I also think, and the guys talked about this on Wednesday's episode, and we've chatted about this in prior pods as well, but you really did feel it in this episode. Like, the Mandalorians are not infallible characters, and they're not characters who we ever go long without seeing them err. But typically when we see them make mistakes, it's because of the things we've heard, you know, Bo mentioned, right? The infighting, the lack of trust, leaving themselves vulnerable to outside influence because of the fractures within. It's not usually because they keep getting absolutely fucking shredded and obliterated by wild game in their own backyard. Like, they're just making, the season is clowning the Mandalorians a bit, given we're supposed to consider them

these like really fierce, capable. Let's go back to our listener email from last week where they were like Mandalorians, too dumb to live, question mark. I can't say that this episode disputed that anyway. To zoom back really quickly to Ragnar coming out of the creature dry as a bone, do you know what a wet bump is? Okay. You're like, is this a trap?

I learned about this when I was covering lost. Remember, remember how I podcasts about loss for all of the pandemic, and you join me that one time? And on loss, the actors are quite often, like, soaking in the rain or they've fallen into the water or whatever. A wet bump is an actor gets paid more if they have to act wet. It is a pay bump is called the wet bump. So, like, maybe they didn't want to pay Jimmy Kimmel's nephew a wet bump, and they're like, you're going to come out dry kid. We don't make the rules. I'm sorry. It's just like wet bump is my favorite energy term I ever learned, and I just want to any excuse. So yeah. You want to go back to our horny helmet, the hotspot and talk about the wet bump a bit? Or no, should we?

Yeah, maybe. We're clanging. And that's just like, oh boy. Oh, boy. Pass because he's an idiot as established immediately is scooped up by the same creature. Din has to rescue him and his kid. Paz has got. of fucking hate this. He and Din hate each other. Din doesn't really hate him. Din is in real Don Draper. Like, I don't think of you at all territory with Paz and Paz is obsessed. He did help Din to come to his aid. It passes what takes his helmet off and it's fucking Ginsburg underneath. I mean, who knows? Maybe one day. He's like three times the size of Ginsburg, but I would still be into it. Yeah, he's been like pumping iron, you know, who knows?

Yeah. Paz in Chapter 3 helps out. but it's been a lot of tension and resentment outside of that. And this is just the way that he had to say thank you. You know it killed him. You know it killed him. Just like the other creature killed the Dino Bird Mama because there's always a bigger fish in Star Wars.

And that means when the gauntlet returns to the covert cove and the armorer says, come Grogo, which I thought was cute. She's really taken care of him. I still don't, I'm not, I'm always on my guard with the armorer, but I did think that was sweet. Three new foundlings, Joe, are brought in here in the form of the baby.

Borgue. Yes. I wanted to see Dyn address the new armor on Grogu. I thought he should have been there for the ceremony. I wanted to see what he thought about it. We didn't get that here. Maybe we'll get it next week.

But he did just scoop him up right away and hold him. Yeah, it was real, it was real, um, Poe Damarin greeting BBA, you know? Like, it was really solid. Okay. But we have to go back to the three new foundlings for a second because they are being like guided.

Led by. some mystery meet. Do you think that's their mom? I have concerns and questions. I know that we're watching Yellow Jackets right now and I have these things on my mind, but where else did they get of like Flintstone-sized sirloin? If not off the mama dino bird. So like the aquatic creature eats, the new dino turtle eats the dino bird and a chunk is floating maybe and they scoop it up.

and say, young babies, we are responsible for another creature in Star Wars dying for no reason. We have slain your mother. Please follow this

thigh meat into our ship that definitely isn't big enough for all of you so that we can lead you to our cove where you will be eaten by the same creature

that just killed your mother because they attack us all the time. Also, three new foundlings. I love this idea that maybe three people, let's say, Ragnar and two of his weird

friends are going to be riding the dino bird when it grows up? Or are they putting Besscar on these dino birds? Why not both? Put some armor on and then take flight. So many fowlings in this episode. The episode is called the fowling. Obviously, that's about Brogu. It's also about Ragnar. It's about these three baby birds. And it's about Bo, which takes us into the last stretch of the episode. Perfect. The armorer tells Bo, you have done the highest honor of the creed, saving a foundling. And Beau responds, this is the way. I remain, we have a fascinating exchange between them to parse in a second here. I remain a little stuck on this dynamic in particular,

because it's two characters who are canonically established to, it's not like there's a personal resentment toward each other, but think that the other person represents something wrong and dangerous, and that is just not present in episodes three and four of this season when they are with each other. And I find that strange. Because it would be so cool and rewarding and rich from a storytelling perspective. To work past that. Yes.

If they interrogated it and grappled with their own prejudice and then worked beyond it. It would be rich for them as individual characters. It would be rich for them embracing this idea. You know, everyone's talking about the failures in the past, de-infighting, the inner turmoil, the ruptures that have torn them apart and left them vulnerable. you two can pave a better path. There's well positioned as any characters to do that, given the things we've heard from them in the past,

but we need that to be like active text in the season a little bit. You know, the armorer has said that Bo is like responsible for the fall of Mandelor because of what happened with the Dark Saper. And Bo has said that the children of the watch are a cult of religious zealots and blamed them for not helping with the purge. It just feels like this should come up. Well, and the way that Bo, like, and that's why people, there's a couple things. Like, we got an email from Matt, like, I'm just recapping it, but basically he's like,

does the armor have a hidden agenda? And, like, we've definitely got emails or we've questioned ourselves, like, does Bo have a hidden agenda? And, like, I think that the inspiration behind us being, like, how devious is Bo being is how relaxed she is around this, like, cult that she has expressed, like, revulsion for. Doesn't make a ton of sense. I want to read this other email we got from Anthony, mostly because there's a lot of sports stuff in it, and I mostly understood it,

but I just found it very charming. So Anthony wrote, Bokutan has, in three episodes, gone from cut from her old team, the Mandalorians left with their fleet, to being the absolute star player and carrying her new team. She's improved their offense and defense

and is possibly recruiting more stars and role players to the team. She made big plays to save Dism, twice, and without her playbook and execution, they don't save Paz's son at all. Not to mention she's the only five-tool Star Wars player on the Children of the Watch team, pilots, leads, thinks, fights, and fights with a saber. This is like the vet player who's been hanging around the locker room presence for a while and had some good seasons way back, finally breaking out and leading their team to a title. Love this.

Sometimes you just need a change of scenery. You need a new locker room. You need to be in a new ballpark. It's like crash. Different dimensions in the outfield, you know? Is it a hitter? Park is it a pictures park? I'm into this. This is great. Love it. Love it.

Thanks, Anthony. The armorer Joe is also thinking in sports terms, looking at the equipment kit that Bo's rocking and says, you've got some missing paltron activity here. I can replace what's missing, but not with its modern refinements. This is clearly not just about the armor. This is about the old ways and the different life and path that Bo has led. Well, what's so weird is that the piece of armor that she makes for Grogu looks like it had, like, circuitry in it. Oh, yeah. I don't know how to understand that. And Dyn's chess plate before, too, yeah.

Right. I mean, the armor is high-level tech. There are some modern refinements going on there, you know. I feel like she's, like, basically saying to Bo, are you in or not? You know? Yeah. Are you adopting our way of life? And it feels particularly notable, given that Bo then chooses to share with the armorer

something that she did not share with Din. When the, when she asks the armor, when the armor asks if she wants the night owl signet on this new palturn, Bo asks instead, staring as she has been at the mythosur skull on the wall for the mythosaur. Is that okay? Can she have both? There's that idea once again. Night owl on one arm, mythosur on the other.

You don't have to choose, embrace the different aspects of who you are. Lovely, great. The armor says, of course. The mythosur belongs to all Mandalians. It is acceptable to wear. And then Bo tells the armorer what happened in the living waters. Steve, can we hear this exchange? What would you say if I told you I saw one?

That you saw what? A mythosaur. I would say you are very lucky. It is a noble vision. No, I mean a real one. Benece the Living Waters on Mandelor. When you choose to walk the way of the Mandalore, you will see many things. But it was real.

This is the way. This shocked me. I want to know how you read this from both characters, Joe. Why did Bo do this? What do you see in the Armourer's response? I feel like she doesn't believe that she saw a real Mithosaur, but at the same time, would not be surprised. I don't know. She's so unflappable.

Also, shout out Emily Swallow in the way she, like, delivers all of these lines as the armor. So good. And then with Bo, like, why did she tell the armor or not Dinn? I think, like, there's a little bit of a – the best explanation I could come up with is that, like, if she – it's not that she doesn't want Dishol. to know because she doesn't want competition. It's more like she was so adamant and so sneering about the Mythosaur that it's

almost a little embarrassing to be like, JK, I just saw one. Like moments after like sneeringly reading this plaque about the myth. She's like, the Mythosaur eye roll, like blah, blah. And then she's like, um, JKah, I saw one. So I think telling the armor

feels safer than telling Jen. I love that. That's my best. I love the read that she just, I love the She just didn't want to tell the tourists that he was right. I'm curious if, like, Ben and I were chatting about this a bit when we're working on his piece, great piece, read it on the ringer.com, what a great website. Midweek. Like, is an armor session like a confessional in some way? Like, is Bo expecting confidentiality inside of this exchange? Does she realize as soon as she says this out loud that this is about to spread that Din will find out?

that she thinks she saw this and didn't tell her, what will that mean for their relationship? Is she testing what kind of buy-in she can maybe expect from the armor? What hurdles she'll have to clear? Not in a nefarious way, just maybe even subconsciously, but also maybe organically, like,

hey, what would you say if I told you this thing? What would you think of this? It just feels like Katie isn't playing it that way at all, but like maybe there's room for like not devious, but still poking at something at the same time. And I do think, like, maybe a confessional space, but what is true is that the armor is the closest thing to a spiritual leader that this covert has.

You know, she's the one constantly professing what is the way, making judgments, casting people out, stuff like that. So, like, I can see that. It's like going to, you know, the shaman or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I also not reading any, like, active manipulation in TV's performance.

But I think that the character is at war with herself, and there can be like the elements of examination, even if your overall intention is still to find peace with these people. And I think actually, like we've talked about before, it's most interesting if Bo is able to say, let's do this together, but also here's what you're wrong about. You know that there should be some challenge in pursuit of that piece. I think from the armor's perspective, like,

You know, when we heard the armorer talk about the Mythosaur in Boba, the songs of the Am Pass line that we've mentioned many times, the last line of that is, sadly, it only exists in legends. And I don't think at the time or now, we have read that in any way as equivalent to the state we find Bowen at the beginning of season three, where we're thinking the armorer is a character who has lost faith or doesn't believe in the magic. It's almost like it's a lament when she says it. Like, this is, this has receded from our life.

Would she be excited if she realized that it was true? I wonder to this idea of, is the armor reluctant to believe Bo? Or is she afraid of what it might mean if this is in fact true? What would it mean for the armorer and the armorer's way of life if Bo Katan claimed the mythosaur

and rallied the troops and heralded in this nude prophesied age? And the armorer is a character who abides by prophecy. I think there's the one interpretation is just, you know, okay, that's a rival. Maybe. I'm interested in whether the armor would be concerned that Boca Tan, a character she thinks is responsible in a lot of ways for the horrors of the past, what would it mean if Bo was in a position of power again?

Like, would that represent a larger threat to her people? Could she be thinking about that? I hope that's true. And what's true about a show where our characters are helmeted, is that we can layer a lot of meaning on what they say. What I'm worried is that the Mandalorian maybe has never been a show that it has had that much on its mind, that it exists in a much more straightforward level.

But I think it would be interesting to see more of that conflict. But what I'm worried about, and I'm not that worried about it, I'm having a good time, but what I more suspect, because we kept waiting for this kind of depth in, like, Book of BobaFet. And what happened, it was just like, Boba showed up on the rancor and smashed a bunch of things and it looks cool. And so I'm worried that it's just like, it's going to be a might as right thing. And she's going to show up on the mythosaur and it looks cool. And everyone's like, no problem, you're our leader.

Right. But I do think this idea of, we got this cool email from a listener about this idea of the dual prophecy, right? So what the armor said in you referenced it, the songs of Yom Pass foretold of the Mythesore rising up to Herald, a new age of Mandalore. Our listener, Kail, wrote I had a question whether you guys saw predicted any parallels between the Mandalorian prophecy and the Jedi chosen one prophecy.

With the embrace of the prequels and the comparison between the Mandalorians and the Jedi, it feels like the show is setting up a comparable arc. So I think it's just at least worse thinking about the way in which Star Wars thinks about prophecy. You know what I mean? Like, again, to go back to like a Potter reference, like, we have a clear idea about how that universe treats prophecy, different universes treat prophecy in different ways. And like, the way that they've chosen one prophecy is misinterpreted, bungled, revised in the original trilogy and the prequels and the sequels and stuff like that maybe gives us a hint as to how it might be thought of here. I also like,

like the way, I mean, when you're thinking about a prophecy, you always have to think about precision of language, right? What is, what is exactly saying here, right? Fortold the missor rising up to herald a new age of mandolore. Like, Mandelor is the name of the planet, but it's also the name, it's spelled differently, but it's also the name of the leader, the Mandelor, with an apostrophe in the middle of it. Like the Mao did, basically. And so, like, Harold a new age of a new mandol, a new leader? or a new age for the planet or both, you know, something like that.

Yeah. That's fascinating. The Jedi comp, yeah, I really like what you're saying about misinterpreting. And I love the idea, again, if the armorer is a way into, if the armor and bow within the same characters, the same people,

you're forced to interrogate your relationship to an idea in a new way. Because, like, when the armorer says to, what the armor says to Dinn in Bobo chapter five is, this is about the dark saber, If it is won by creed in battle, it is said one warrior will defeat 20 and the multitudes will fall before it. If, however, it is not won in combat and falls into the hands of the undeserving, it will be a curse unto the nation. Mandelor will be laid to waste and its people scattered to the four winds.

Then elsewhere says, only those that walked the way escaped the curse prophesied in the creed. Though our numbers were scattered to the winds, our adherence to the way has preserved our legacy for the generations until we may someday return to our homeworld. even there there's like competing impulses, return to the home world. Good. But can you do it behind a character who you think represents this, the curse

that was part of this prophecy? Like that's what she thinks Bo did and wrought upon their people with the saber. But again, to your point, I would have more buy-in on that potential drama if we saw even a drop of that

since Bo has- craving it so desperately. She thinks that Bo, while everybody else is flocking to her potentially as a sign of strength, then the armorer says, this character might be our undoing.

That could be fascinating. Let's start building toward that with a little conversation. But again, if they find their way to a peaceful alliance, great. I'd also love Bo to be like, are those mall super commando horns on your helmet? I led the resistance in opposition to that group. Can we talk about it? Can we have a little chat?

I didn't put it in the dock, but we got an email from a listener who was asking if, like, maybe the armor was like a death of mirror or something like that. And that's why like we haven't like, why is the armor so invested in pushing this, this idea of like keep her helmet on at all times? Because she doesn't want anyone to see her face. Like, what's going on underneath her helmet? I don't know.

Like I'm willing to sit on Conspiracy Corner for that. I just, I do want to circle back. As we close out the episode, I do want to circle back. to like a couple of quotes we've heard already in the season. Mm-hmm. Yeah. When Dan is talking to Bo about the creed, and he says our people are scattered like stars in the galaxy,

what are we, what do we stand for basically without our creed? And then also when Din is talking to Grogo and saying being a Mandalorian, it's not just about learning out of fight. You also need to know to navigate the galaxy. That way you'll never be lost. Again, when we've been talking about this since the start, this ongoing interrogation of what does it mean to be a Mandalorian? Yes.

And what does it mean to unscatter a scattered people? Absolutely. Let's find out. Does it mean just simply riding a mythosaur? Does it mean figuring out how to have more of fuel-efficient jet packs? You know? We'll find out. Oh, boy.

Okay. We are going to go rapid fire through some of our corners as we conclude today's episode. First up, Easter eggs. Joe, we've hit a bunch of the Easter eggs in this episode already. Yeah. The Shriecock, the H-type Nubian yacht, there's always a bigger fish. Any others that are top of your list as favorites from the episode. No, I'm just going to circle back to there's always a bigger fish because you dropped it beautifully and eloquently as they were discussing it.

But just in case people don't have a strong memory of the prequels, this is a Quaggon Jin line from the phantom menace, and it is specifically a Jar Jar Binks moment. So, you know, if this episode is full of little Jar Jar Omages, there's always a bigger fish, which is how they escape underwater, etc. You know, I thought that was, it's not said, it's just invoked. I liked it. Delightful. That's my pick too, but I'll toss out the lifting rocks fake out. Always like when we think we're going to get a lifting rocks. Forced training sequence. Great stuff. Okay. from eggs to wigs. It is time for wigwatch.

You have removed your helmet. Have you worn wigs? We got an email of appreciation for Steve, like, for a lot of things, but chiefly, that sound clip. Again, I mean, maybe I have to revise all my thoughts about how bad Mandalorian smell and what's going on under their helmets. Like, maybe they've got a cooling system in there because Bo comes out, like, you know, cool as a kuk. Like, no, no sweat, no sheen, no, no must, no fuss on the hair. You know, maybe there's something special going on under the Baskar that's just keeping them nicely air conditioned under there.

I don't know. But, yeah, the wig is back. A salon. A hair salon, yeah. When you, Mallory, go in for your perm treatments. I know how you are. Yeah, I mean, the wig is back. we get to see Katie's face.

I'm still stumping to get to see Pedro's face again. That would be preferable to me. Joanna, there's no chance we make it for season without seeing his face. Right? We are in episode four, Marriott Cobb, Nora Vance to be seen.

So I need you to stop making me promises. You can't, you don't know that you can deliver on. I'm standing, I'm standing firm and standing tall here. We will see Cobb Vand before the end of the season. We will see Patriot. Pascal's face before the end of the season. I'm at 100% confidence on Pedro's face. I'm at 95% on Cobb's face.

And I'm at, you know, 50% on whether we get an oral sex scene before the end of the season. That's more just hoping. How are you going to make it up to me if we don't get Cobb fan? What do I get instead? I mean, my instinct would be to say I'll send you a cardboard cutout, but you already have one. It's like the most embarrassing thing I've heard out of my life. Why did I do that? It was the COVID.

I think it's wonderful. I think it's wonderful. We all love some pride in COVID. Oh my God. From Whigs to subtitles. The Netflix Subtitle Award, aka Coop Corner. Obviously, the panting subtitle is the actual winner from this episode for

subtitles we got. Just remarkable stuff. But the The Netflix thought experiment, you know, if we were over in the Vecnaverse here and the Netflix crew were providing the subtitles for Chapter 20 The Foundling, what do you think we would have seen, Joe? I'm a great one. I guess I'll go with like Ragnar Tumbles Dryly. Yeah. I think we could just literally go back to the source of this bit, which is flesh distends wetly for the meat, you know?

Flesh lorce rancidly. Yeah. Just stick with the template for that. Secret Force user. Who's your candidate from this episode? How did Ragnar say dry and alive inside? I have Ragnar, parentheses, dry and alive in the mouth of a beast. How?

Incredible. I feel so, I feel so, I feel so seen a known by you every single time we do this corner. It's getting, it's getting to the point, though, where I actually think it's going to be, like, a crisis for us if we don't have the exact same pick one week. I also think like maybe people think we're making it up that we have the exact same thoughts but it's not true. We don't share these because we want to be able to enjoy this moment. Steve, get on the microphone.

Are you here? Yes. Will you just like back us up that we do not have this in the document that this is true? No, you do not. You do not. That's it. We did it.

We did it. We will grow into this podcast as we grow into our stations. But until then, that's a wrap. Thank you to the leaders. of our 501st podcast Legion. Steve Allman for producing this episode

Urgina Ram Gapal for his additional production work on this episode and Jo Mia Denneron for his work on the social for this episode. Remember to pop back over to the prestige TV feed

for our Yellow Jackets Season 2 breakdowns and then next week head back to the ringer verse. House of Who? First Doctor Whood. Midnight Boys instant reaction to the newest Mando

on Wednesday. House of our deep dive to the newest Mando on Friday. Until then, playtime's over. We're going to need you to focus. Happy music goes here. I'm going to get that little Grogoot coup. I'm going to just, you know, heighten the Groguku. My sweet baby.

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