The Ringer-Verse - The ‘Mandalorian' Season 3, Episode 5 Deep Dive | House of R

Episode Date: March 31, 2023

Clear out, blue boy! And make way for Mal and Jo's deep dive into the latest episode of 'The Mandalorian' (05:51). They discuss the return of the pirate king and what Bo Katan's journey might mean, and are later joined by Ben to theorize about what this episode's final scene might mean (01:44:50). Then, they all give out their episode awards! Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Guest: Ben Lindbergh Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill finally gave the ringers Philly crew a podcast. I'm Ben Solac. And I'm Shiel Capadia. That's right, just a couple of Philly guys with a new space to fire off some Eagles takes, get caught up in the Sixers, chaos, and more. We'll be coming to you twice a week on Sundays and Thursdays, plus bonus episodes whenever we get breaking news or Philly drama. Plus when Hardin and Embed somehow convince you suckers that this year's going to be different, our fellow Philly stands at the Ringer will have you covered on the Sixers and all your other favorite teams in town. It's Philly Sports, Shield. What could possibly go wrong? Join the fun and follow the Ringer's Philly special now on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-77-3-3-3-3-3-3-1-1-7-3. to learn more or visit trimfire radio.com. This episode is brought to by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee,

it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com, forward slash active cash terms of play. I was taught that the Mithosaur existed only in legends, and yet you saw it. It is a sign that the next age is upon us. Mandelaw must all come together.

You have walked both worlds. You are the one who can unite us. Greetings. And welcome into the ringer verse. here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to the lava flats,

but also to join us on the Ringer's nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. Joining me today after telling Steve to clear out Blue Boy, it's my house of our co-host, Joanna Robinson. Hi, Rubin, it has been 415 days since we last saw Cobb Vance.

Dude. And counting. I really thought it might happen for you this episode when we got the mention in the previously on of needing a marshal, needing a lawman. And yet, I'll continue counting. I will continue counting down until the day is upon us. And then we will all celebrate. We are here.

As you can probably tell. to discuss the most recent episode of The Mandalorian. But before we drop down to rescue our favorite Kuwokian monkey lizard pals, so quick programming reminders. On Monday, Junior Mintz, get ready, because Mint Edition will be breaking down

dungeons and dragons, honor among thieves. Joanna, this is one of your most anticipated movies of the year. I assume this is one of your most anticipated podcasts of the year now. Obviously. Cannot wait to hear the boys break it down. Speaking to the boys, next Wednesday, the midnight boys, we'll, of course, have their instant reaction to that episode of The Mandalorian.

That'll be episode six already. Sheesh. We will be back next Friday with our Chapter 22 Deep Dive. And we will also be with you on Fridays on our sister feed, the prestige TV podcast feed, where we will be breaking down every episode of Yellow Jackets. Buzz, Buzz, baby. Baby. Joe, how can the people follow all of that? How can they follow your succession coverage? How can they follow what you're doing on trial by content? How can they follow all of the ringer podcast network? Goodness.

So, so delighted you asked, especially about trial by content in which this week we desperately tried to define the word dungeon and pretty much failed. So have a listen to that. I learned a lot of things about dungeons, of all kinds. So yeah, so you're going to want to follow just the ringer on. on any social you prefer, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. There's been a lot of like good ringer-verse

explainer content on YouTube. Like just check it all out. It's all happening, right? Subscribe to the podcast. Why not? Ringerverse, for sure. I'm sure you're already subscribed. But why not Presti-TV as well?

Again, as Mallory mentioned, we're covering yellow jackets. We're covering definitely a genre show Succession notes. It's great stuff over on the Presti-Tivie TV podcast feed. And of course, please do always email us, Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com.

I'm getting Yellow Jackets emails there. I'm getting Mando emails there. I'm getting Dr. Who emails there. And now I'm also getting succession emails there, even though I didn't ask for them. So thank you. You know that that's how you can find me for your Apple takes and whatever else you may have to say.

Our last programming reminder is the same one as always. It's the friendly neighborhood spoiler warning because today's podcast will feature plot details from the Mandalorian chapter 20. the pirate, all of the Mandalorian to date, everything in the Mandoverse, everything in the Philoniverse, everything in the animated verse, we will definitely be talking Star Wars rebels today.

Really all of Star Wars canon. So if you don't know why, we all stood up on Wednesday at 1207 in the morning in our pajamas and shouted, Caravast at our TVs. Please proceed with caution. That's literally what I did. Just gasped. We'll get there.

I thought it was very charming that I dropped the Leo. pointing meme in there and Jomey was like, I already have the tweet scheduled. It's delightful. Delightful. What a moment in the group chat. It was beautiful. We're here to talk about the pirate directed by Pierre Ramsey, written by John Favro. Avian of a Mlad. This is a 43-minute episode right there in the middle of the last two installments.

And it's time to hear what you thought. Let's go to the port of Ringerverse, Jam of the Outer Rim for our opening. Snapshot. Joanna Robinson. Overall impressions. Quick snapshot. What does you think of the pirate? Is this what happens when you hire the director of Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse to make an episode of the Mandalorian? I really liked it. I liked it a lot. I have some notes on the battle, which we will talk about later. But overall, I really liked it. I liked how we've been feeling a little bit at sea, I think, with this season in terms of like, where are we going? What's going on? How are these things connected?

And this felt very like the tightening of the weave on the tapestry is becoming clear. I still have some questions about motivations, but I think probably intentionally so. And, you know, as far as Easteries goes, this is a banger. A banger easter. So, yeah, I had a great time with it. How about you, Mel? I had a blast. I think we're back on track.

I also still have some questions. I have a few nipicks, a few notes. I think in the same bucket as yours, particularly with some of the character motivations and some of what we're not hearing or seeing the characters grapple with directly or with each other. But this was the first episode where I thought

maybe some of that withholding is building deliberately toward a culmination that will be satisfying at the end of the season. Last week felt like the necessary reset and recalibration, but it wasn't quite there. And this week, I started to find some of the confidence that I think we were really looking for last week of can the season come together.

Now, we only have three episodes last. There's not a lot of runway remaining. There's a lot to do. But I felt like the plot of the season moved forward in a meaningful way at the end of this installment. We had some fun action. We had some quirk.

We got to revisit and build out some of the rise of the First Order, failure of the New Republic, political plot in a way that felt much more expertly and deftly handled here than in the third episode of the season. We're going to talk about Zeb later, but I will just

say right now, unsurprisingly, this is sort of like the delights of my life as a Star Wars fan to see Zeb appear in that action. That was really fun. This was amazing. Yeah. Not a lot of Grogo in this episode. No. That was tough. I miss my guy and

Missed Din and Gros still. And I think that larger question of how present Din and that duo is in their show is top of mind still for sure. But it was a really fun episode and I'm excited to see where the season goes from here. So encouraged after this one. Yeah, I'm excited that Peter Ramsey is also doing an episode of Asoka. I really like Peter Ramsey as like a human being and as like a creative. And so I think this is like a really good hire in terms of connection of sensibility and property.

And I'm also excited, like, next week is Bryce's episode, and I love a Bryce episode. Same. And then Rick's doing the double, like, I'm kind of considering like a double finale kind of situation probably. And so I'm optimistic for the end run of the season. Yeah. Me too. I'm optimistic about our deep dive today. It's time to bathe in the living waters.

I'm forgetting the bed's there. I'm sorry. I have yet to remember once that that is coming. Great stuff. from Steve as always. And speaking of Steve, actually, can you hop on mic for a minute,

buddy? We need you here right at the top of the deep dive for a hot second because it's time to talk about our pals, the pirates of the Navarro we in. We are back on Navarro. And as we pan in

to spend some time with our guy Grief Carga, the camera swoops by IG11 statue site. Where? The I'm sorry, all I can.

to think of to say is stripped and mutilated corpse of our dear departed friend remains rotting like a broken coat hanger. We have the bronze legs, a pelvis, one little armlet, but none of the rest of his parts. Now, should we be feeling good because they didn't bring his actual body back? Maybe he is resting peacefully elsewhere. But then melt this bronze down. Or should we be appalled? No, of course, I want to hear from Steve, but I just need to circle back for a second. Mallory, did you say rotting like a broken coat hanger? Yeah, that's how broken coat hangers have you seen rot in the sunshine is my question. I don't know.

What are you using for coat hangers? All right, Steve, take it away. If my closet were out in the Navarro Sun mere feet away from the lava flats to which we would flee in the throes of a pirate attack, the Navy of a pirate attack, the Navy of a wood rot. Steve. Steve, I'd like to take note that most of the. of the, there were no droids during the evacuation of Navarro amongst the survivors. And I can see why, because they would immediately want to abandon that town that show that much disrespect to a hero for that beautiful, beautiful town.

It's absolutely abhorrent. I can't believe that we have two dangling legs and half an arm in the town square. Yeah. After you just like take off the torso to be like the hero of our town, this is all you can aspire to be. What is left here is the the metal that an artisan has crafted to pop up the actual woman has crafted out of respect and reverence. Melt it down and crafted into fucking something else. Okay. How about a plaque that says thank you IG 11 but isn't made to look like his destroyed form? Just put up a construction sign. It's like hey, we're working on a new thing.

Clearly, you don't want to be hearing, seeing like the mutilated body. He has a lot of real estate deals to make. Like, I don't know. He's a busy man. He's not making any. He's got to offshoot like a bunch of prime tracks. Apparently he has to like on an ash heap. Rail system that he is forgotten to make, you know, like.

This is devastating. Mono real estate is bound. To be looking at the city plans and realize you don't know transfer. Mm-mm. And then to hear the screams of your citizens and realize it's not just about the lack of easy access, public transportation, but also about the impending pirate attack, it's tough. It's a tough stretch. I wonder if it would have been easier to evacuate the town if you could have just put everyone on the train. You know what I mean? Well, maybe that's just one more thing that the pirates could have easily shot then.

Great point. No, you're making a good case to bowing to bureaucrats with the way he's running this town. All right. Steve, thank you as always for not only commenting, but for your empathy, for your heart, for your courage. I'm nothing without it. Thank you. Like a rotten coat hanger. Adam usually deals with the laundry. I don't know. How do hangers work?

What is a coat hanger? Okay. From statues to the expected and, I don't know, in some corners may be anticipated return of our pal. Pirate King, Gory and Shard. If you have not yet read Ben Limburg's column on the ringer.com, what a great website this week. The commitment to the bit,

the refusal to refer to Pirate King, Corian, Chart as anything but Pirate King Corian Shard in a, like, legit, 5,000-word column. It's just astonishing stuff from Ben. Joe, Shards, Corsair. It's a cool ship. Cumulus Class. Not cool enough, it appears,

for our dear Grief Carga to have identified it. His response to what is unfolding is first to say pirates with genuine surprise and then to say, I knew that Corsair looked familiar. Did Grief Carga forget or fail to consider that the angry pirates who had tried to turn his school into a saloon might return after the aerial battle? Are you saying he kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet? I kind of forgot about the pirate fleet.

Perhaps I love you. Perhaps too, I love you too. Perhaps too focused on real estate to pay attention to the consequence. Oh, well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions. But I do want to talk about this hailing here, right? So he's hailed by Pirate King Gory and Shard. Yes. So it looks more and more like a Wakame salad to me.

Like just absolutely delicious. Absolutely delicious. Full shot full of iron. This was such a Star Trek moment inside of a Star Wars for me, because obviously like hollows are a thing in Star Wars. But in Star Trek, it is so often the person who is about to blow your ship out of this guy calls you to mock you, just ruthlessly to your face. And this is what this was, was like a real just like shit-talk sesh with the

Pirate King Goryan Shard. And I actually really liked this whole sequence. I thought Nonso Anunsi really crushed the, I mean, the Muppet that is Pirate King Gorean Shard, his mouth has nothing to do with the words that are coming. Like his mouth movements have nothing to do with the syllables that are coming out. But I thought that Anonzi put so much, like, swagger on them. So much Riz coming out of this seaweed salad here. So I enjoyed it. We are inching toward the dinner hour, and we're going to need to watch the food references as we go here.

I wanted to ask you to grade this trash talk. You're a big sports fan. So you're always looking for locker room material. Did you know that today is the opening day of something as we record this on Thursday? How many innings have you just mainline today on the MLB package? How many fantasy baseball leagues are you in right now? I mean, countless. My empire is vest.

Shard is attempting to ridicule and insult grief and make him seem soft, right? He's gone soft. It reminds me. He used to be the guildmaster of the Navarro Hunters and then says that he looks like, and I quote, a pampered nobleman dressed for the pomp of his wedding feast. And I would posit that while that is a very amusing and compelling line, it's kind of a compliment. Who wouldn't want to look like a pampered nobleman dress for the pomp of a wedding feast? A hard and hearty pirate.

You need to look weather-beaten and like raggedy to be a pirate. That's your true virtue if you were soft. Think about like Norrington. Think about like all the like, you know, noblemen that find their way onto a ship in Pirates of the Caribbean. You make fun of the softness of their curled wig and like, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I guess there's some, our flag means death plotting around this very point. Yeah, I'm with you. And then, and then, not to just like make this all about Pirates of the Caribbean, but when Norrington gets like dirty and like rough in a later movie, respect skyrockets for that character, you know? So if you were grading the trash talk on a scale of like one to ten sweet green kale bowls, how many kale bowls would you give pirate gang, gongory and shard? 10 out of 10. 10.

10. Okay. Wow. All right. How are you? I'm going with like maybe six and a half. It's like six kale bowls and a side. You know, a side of something. I thought you were going to say, I refuse to rape my friends when they trashed off.

You know what I mean? That is a reference to me and trapping Joanna into revealing which part of a friend's body she would eat on our yellow jacket. pod. So if you want to hear more, tune in. Pop over to the Prestige TV podcast. Shard is pissed. Unsurprisingly, about everything that went down in the season three premiere. And we get a nice little he shot first. Wink here.

No one shouts McClunky. Will they edit in a McClunky down the road? Who can say? Or is it a dream? Is that our burden to bear? It might be. Steve, can you please edit in a McClunky? You can do it later in the Easter eggs if you want.

Or you can do it here. grief then tells an obvious lie about being under New Republic protection and Schart says immediately that he knows that is not true and that Navarro is an independent world. We had discussed previously this idea that the comp between Navarro as a neutral planet and Mandelor famously a neutral planet might be relevant and was an ominous note at the open of this season that was very central here. But then if you think ahead where we are at the end of this battle, seeing these groups stand together and unite, that common cause could be a powerful thing in the future. If only the Duchess Sateen, we're here to see it, Joe.

If only. Well, I think this line where he says the New Republic can't even protect the mid-rim from the pirate nation, question mark. Yeah. This isn't Sabak. You can't bluff your way out of this one cargo. Okay. He's reading Colonel Tuttle's emails, I guess. Don't be distracted by the Sabak, Easter egg.

Let's go back. First of all, pirate nation. Yes. The whole nation of pirates? Or is it like... This is a Honda-esque boast to me. Like... Is it like Dodger Nation?

You know what I mean? Like a fandom sort of thing. I mean, first of all, spoken like a San Francisco Giants fan, the smirching Dodger Nation. I like this question, though. Is this just...

Is it about enthusiasm and passion for the pirate mission? I mean, he's a pirate king. So it's like the pirate kingdom? And he is the pirate king. And he is the king of it? He likes to say that he's a pirate king. Follow up.

Follow up. We see the New Republic fumble all kinds of stuff in this episode, right? Yes. Yeah. But most of the fumbling, I mean, other than the right under their nose fumbling that we're seeing with Operation Paperclip stuff. But, like, the New Republic fumbling in the outer rim is one thing. But fumbling can't even protect the mid rim. Right.

Well, listen. Troubling. Let's go even further and say, can't even tell that there's a clear secret agent spy quite literally in your office. Well, listen, if she's constantly offering to bring you snacks.

I know. I know. Who wouldn't be duped? Great move. Who wouldn't be duped? I did love Shard telling grief not to hail him again, even though he was the one.

Honestly. Who held grief? Classic trek, honestly. Really good stuff. I kind of gaslight bullshit that I thought was hysterical. The attack. The pirates just become full-on terrorists here,

firing on the innocence below the streets of Navarro. You've been tracking. Boca Tan was like, oh, that looks familiar. Terrorism. Is the Pirate Nation a part of Death Watch? Could it be? Joe, you have been tracking all season long the Western like comps and influences

on the season. Were you feeling that here, this encroach? Definitely. Like whenever innocent townspeople are fleeing, you know, you tend to think of running toward the horizon.

Yeah. Running out into the desert. Again, how big is Navarro is my question? Because, you know, there's only about, what, 20 of them out in the desert. So we get that,

like, it's a smaller scene a little later, but we could just talk about that here because grief says he won't flee. That's great. That's nice. He's got to get his people to safety. Wonderful. The call for the retreat to the lava flats goes out. Excellent. Unfortunately, despite us seeing Grief Cargap previously wield a blaster with a plume, there appears to be nary another gun anywhere on Navarro, nor any plan. No more guns in the valley. We knew from his pitch to Dinn in the premiere that he needed help, he needed a lawman, hasn't gotten it. But this is. is not a place that is equipped at all for something like this. It's just capes and statues and redfin listings for tracks of land that he's trying to push on his friends. But when they do

get to the lava flats, like you said, it legitimately is like a couple dozen people. Now, we do see that some townspeople are still in the village center and are being bullied and harassed. Yes, by the pirates. But what's your read on this? Is this a It's just like, this is how many people we had to film with? Is there another explanation? That's what it seemed like, but I was just like... It's supposed to be boom time. So Navarro, so don't you need a lot of people for a boom time?

I just wouldn't even show the group shot if I only had that many people for the group shot, is how I feel about it. Like, I would cut around it. I don't know if this is like a filming in the volume issue or COVID issue or something like that, but it just felt like very sparsely. That made it feel like a little low budge, you know. Wouldn't have felt that way if Cobb Vantth had been here. Sure wouldn't. He's a million bucks all at his own,

you know? Well, sadly, we don't get to spend time with Cobb or his wonderful hair here, but we do get to do something else kind of fun, which is go to a Delphi base, a new location

we have heard mentioned before of this New Republic outposts. We heard about it in Chapter 10, the passenger, but we had not yet seen it. Here's my read. Bangers, right?

great music. Billiards. Booes. Beaches. I'm in. Battlestar Galactica. The caption says psychedelic music plays. This is a jam.

Yeah. And it's giving like strong because of the palm trees, etc. or whatever. It's like giving us like South Pacific Pacific Ocean Theater World War II or because it's like psychedelic music more, maybe more accurately like Vietnam, sort of like that whole apocalypse now. Once again, talking about. about vibe, but it's just, I love this setting. I thought it was really cool.

Are we trying to invoke Top Gun and all? I don't know what I watch. I mean, I don't know if that's what Rangers of the New Republic should be about, but maybe it should just be Top Gun, but make them, you know, X-O-TILES. 10 out of 10 would watch. Glenn Powell, what are you up to right now? What are you doing, my guy, answer. Kathy Kennedy's call.

Inside of the canteen, our guys. Captain Carson. Taiva. I just know I'm going to say Tiva like the sandals 500 times today and I just would like to apologize in advance. And I'm going to probably just call him Carson from here to avoid the issue. Great. He receives a plea from grief.

Now let's recall back in season two that Tiva was on Navarro. Interacted directly with grief with Karadun after the destruction of the imperial base in the fourth episode of season two. Something else that's worth us recalling here, of course. is that, and we've talked about this a couple times this season, grief has clearly stated that he did not want to ask the New Republic for help. He said to Mando in the first episode of this season, the last thing we intend is to bow down to yet another far-off bureaucracy. No,

under my watch, Navarro will become the first truly independent trade anchor in this entire sector. We know how Mando feels as well. We had that all the way back in season one. Grief saying, if it bothers you, go to report them to the New Republic. That's a joke, was Mando's reply. We will see in this episode that these positions, these stances are warranted by the actual lack of a response and lack of assistance and meaningful aid from the New Republic. People feel this way for a reason, but it does really show us like the desperate times that grief is in because this is not a thing that he would want to do. But he does. Pop up another hollow Joe. And here grief cargo explain that they have been attacked by Pirate King Gory and Shard that that Carson is.

asked, it offered him help in the past, and he says he's humbly requesting the new republic to send a patrol to clear out. The Raiders. Says that the situation is dire that the planet will fall. And then. Well, wait, before we get there,

I just want to say, like, obviously, like, grief, like, leaning over a droid is, like, makes us think of Leia and R2, right? And then some of the language here, like, he says, you once offered me which just made me feel, like, years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars, you know, And then like, this is our most desperate hour.

Might as well be how he ended the message here. I always love that the way in season two, Grief said if something does come to mind, I'll be sure to send you a gram. So I like, I like the idea that this is him sliding into the IG DMs. Not the IG 11 DMs. No, no. No, he doesn't have any DMs anymore because he is a broken corpse,

untended to and unthought of as far as we can tell by his quote unquote, friends for a handful of episodes now. Let's turn the tone of this podcast right around, Mallory. What happens next? Joanna, in the back of our screen, we see a hulking shape emerging inching closer. We see a glimpse of purple skin. But Steve, we have to hear it. Play it for us.

Too bad. I really thought Navarro is going to make it. I'm going to afford this to Corrosan. Quest permission to intercede. They haven't returned to dispatch in weeks. They're swamped. They'll never get an answer in time. Then I'm just going to have to go there and talk to them myself.

They can't ignore me face to face. I like your attitude. Good luck. You're going to need it. Okay. This is perfect. Okay, here's why this is a perfect Easter. Before you rhapsodized about rebels, which I'm really excited for you to do.

This is the perfect kind because it works for people who love rebels and are screaming at their screens and sending Leo pointing memes to the group. chat and like all the stuff that we were doing. And then it works, it works just perfectly. You don't lose anything really if you don't know who he is. You're sort of like, oh, that's fun. That's a, that's a guy that looks different from the same old trend oceans that we see over and over again or whatever. And, but then when you go in, tell the people who we saw here, Mallory, who is this?

First of all, voiced by Steve Blom as Zeb is in rebels, which is part of what makes this. so wonderful. This is such a thrill and such a treat for Star Wars Rebels fans. Rebels is of course the part of the

animated verse that you have heard us talk about a lot. We chatted about it at length in our Mando Primer Pod. A very quick who is Zeb rundown

if, as Joe is alluding to you, you're a non-rebel's viewer but you were like, hey, who is this guy? I'm interested. And then you went on Twitter the next day and you were like,

why am I seeing every so excited. A gift of this guy except here he's a cartoon. Garazab, Aurelius, known as Zeb or Specter 4, because he is a member of our beloved Spectres,

one of the crew of the ghost, smelly guy, Per Ezra, his ghost roommate, just throwing that out there. It's a data point. We like to track stench here on House of Ar, especially in our Mandalorian pod, so I wanted to mention it.

He is often quite rude to our guy Chopper, but as Thor would say, families can be tough and it's part of the charm of rebels to see these characters fighting back and forth at each other and then finding their way ultimately to common ground. Zeb is a Lassat from Lassan, a planet and this is a key, key part of Zeb's history that was obliterated by the empire. So Zeb hates the empire and has like a lot of personal. You might think that you hate the empire, but like Zab like really hates the empire. The empire.

And he was a former member of the Lassan Honor Guard. He fights with, you'll see inevitably in Asoka, if not perhaps sooner in the rest of the season three of the Mandalorian. He fights with this signature bow rifle. He's like the muscle with the heart of gold and a really fun sense of humor. And in terms of his overall arc, he's a big part of one of the things that Rebels does best, which is allowing us to appreciate a path to forgiveness, forging an unexpected alliance. Yeah. Which complicates the whole Cain thing later.

You know what I mean? It's interesting within this episode to have both Zeb and Kane because Tava's right about Kane. Yes. But in another context, we're rooting for, you know, growth and change in a character. Exactly. If you don't want to hear the character that we're talking about, hit the fast forward button once. This will be quick. When I saw Zeb, I was like, where is callous?

I need to know. I need to know if they're together. I need to know if they're happy. I hope and pray that callus is in a bit. Assook do. I fucking love Gallus. I can't wait to find out more. Okay. Not a surprise show to Czeb fighting for the New Republic, given his role overall in the rebellion and disdain for the empire. But I do think it's interesting to know definitively that he's no longer out at Lera San, which is where he went. You know, there's the great moment in the rebels finale where Sabine clarifies that

path, quote, after the war. So the timing here, this is something that we've been really excited to figure out with Asoka, like picking up at the end. of rebels and going forward with the quest for Thrawn for Ezra. How many more of the rebels crew members do you think we're going to see in this season? Is this a little wink to tell us, like, stay patient. A lot more is coming in, Asoka. Do you think we're going to see Sabine?

Do you think we're going to see Chop? Do you think we're going to see Hera? Are we going to see Jason? Like, who are we going to see the rest of the way here? I would say at most we're going to get Sabine. And it's going to be quick. I don't think we're going to get Hera. don't think we're going to get anyone else. I mean, maybe chop. But like, I really think we might

see Sabine. But I wouldn't be surprised if they held her back for, though we're on a massive Mandalorian finding mission. So like, you know, we'll talk about that later. But I think what's even more interesting to me in terms of the use of Zeb here is like, as we said, like, hated the empire. We have seen how hard he fought in the rebellion. And so for him to have this, cynical attitude about the efficacy of the New Republic is what is, I think, most interesting about his appearance here because

we've heard people be cynical or exhausted when talking about the inefficient ways of the New Republic and we've heard people who probably were rebels or definitely were rebels, but Zab is a character that so many Star Wars fans have spent time watching and fight tooth and nail for this. So to fight tooth and nail for this

and then to be so let down by the thing that he fought for, I think is what is the extra contextual power of this particular character in this particular exchange. I completely agree, and I think almost the like routine utterance of that disenchantment. This is just how he talks about things now. Yeah. Was so notable.

And while all of that is true about Zeb's role and his conviction and his ferocity once they were in the fight, He also is a character who I think of as being a reluctant joiner and having a lot of trepidation about trust. Like it takes a while to earn that trust. And so it felt very true to character too that you could lose that and squander it quickly with him. And so like part of what made me so excited about this thinking about Asoka, what we might get there, is the idea as we have been primed in this season of the Mandalorian to really feel the rise of the first order inside of this week. and ineffective new republic,

that our old pals, our old rebels, the ghost crew and Asoka, and maybe some of our buds here from Mando in the increasingly connected universe, we'll be taking it upon themselves to wage the war, just like they had to way back in season one of rebels before they joined the larger fight. Well, and I think also what this episode really helped focus for me

even more so than the previous, exploration of the let down to the New Republic is how a prompt for this series is not just somehow Palpatine return but somehow the First Order rose, you know what you mean? And you

can find answers to that in some of the canon books that exist. But like inside the live action or even animated world, like we have some questions and so to see this and we're about to go to Chorus on, right? But like this was such a perfect

somehow the First Order rose you know exchange absolutely I think on that front too it's in you'll hear this name again later in the pod when we get to Theory Corner

it's impossible to see Zeb and not think about Throne just literally impossible given Throne's role in rebels so that's exciting you mentioned going to Corrassant

that's where we're heading now our guy Captain Carson heads there to implore Tim Meadows, Colonel Tuttle, to send aid to Navarro. Joe, we are back in the Mando tradition of comedian cameos. Love it. Thrills. I'm like, if you're a subscriber to the Presby TV podcast feed and listens to our coverage of poker face,

Tim Meadows had such a good episode of Pokerface. So to see him like also crush it over here, I'm like, people are really appreciating what Tim Meadows can do. And it's about damn time. I loved, I love this use of Tim Meadows here, like, perfect. And, like, you know, he has, it's not like he's been gone. He's been playing, like, principals and school teachers sort of around. So it was, like, perfect to put him here as a sort of, like, pre-exhausted, could not give fewer shits bureaucrat in this scene here.

I do have some questions. I mean, we get a functionary sort of being like, oh, but I said he couldn't come in here, sir, like, whatever. But I do have questions, like, you can't get them on the phone, but you can just, like, walk into their office. Like, that's how the New Republic works? Okay, sure. It's a good note. Don't bother calling them. You'll never get them on the phone.

Okay, I'll just walk in there then. Okay. Everybody's too busy arguing about all the paperwork they don't want to do. You know, that's my working space. Don't book my data disks there. Pershing didn't want to sort them. No. Now Tuttle doesn't want to look at them.

No one wants to do the hard work of running a galaxy, Joe. No one wants to work these days, Mallor. Looking what's happening. Part of the comedy in this sequence, and there's a lot of it, though there's also a lot of intensity, is that our guy, Colonel Tuttle, has quite literally never heard of Navarro. He is so unmoved by grief's plea that he pauses the hollow. He doesn't even finish it. And he says, and I quote, I get the gist. This fucking killed me.

Just, and there's so many, like, size, like heavy size from Tuttle here, yeah. I get the gist. Never heard of it. Tomorrow, never heard of it. I don't know her. Kane, yeah, has heard of tomorrow. G68 is back and do you think that- Totally inconspicuously popping in in the middle of this important meeting, Joe,

to ask if Tuttle wants a snack from the commissary. Definitely not spying or trying to move the shaping hands. of history. I'm sure this will all be fine. Totally fine. I just want to do want to shout out Kane's moves here because like does Kane know Tava

or was Kane like waiting to hear the word Navarro and popped in? Like what made her exactly pop in? I don't know. But like she's Johnny on the spot with this. She works this whole scene effortlessly. And I want to, I'm not going to retract what I said about Katie O'Brien last time,

but I want to say I really enjoyed her performance in this episode. I thought it was quite good. I am astounded because Captain Carson is all over it. Very suspicious, rightly. Tuttle, not only not noticing that there's anything off here, but actually saying, officer, let me ask you, let me ask you for some insight. Yeah.

Anything that you'd like to tell me about Navarro? And Kane says, they've yet to sign the charter. They're not a member planet. All time, Tuttle reply. Uh-oh. that's not good. Steve, we're going to need a oh, that's not good

added to the soundboard for future episodes. And I just really love the way that he said, uh-oh. Like so, like, cheer, uh-oh. Like, it reminds me of like a scene with like a, um, a frustrating like DMV employee

or something like that. Just sort of like, oh, you don't have form B23. That's not good. That's not good. Are you currently working to, uh, fix your registration or renew your license or something? That sounded like you had a,

No, it was a recent interaction that is really stuck with you. No. I'm on top of it. In my 20s, I had some bad DMVE times, but I'm on top of it these days. My dude, same. I, so total clocks the badge on Kane, right? And I think this is really interesting because, like, the badge that Kane is wearing is this, like, A&Cy badge. It's like an A and Arabic.

And I think that what I think is funny is it's, like, quite literally a, Scarlet A. Yeah. Scarlet A. Yeah. On these amnesty folks. And again, back in high school English.

Wonderful. We love a Hawthorne reference, but like, or Easy A, if you're an Emiston fan, whatever you prefer. But like, I think that,

again, it's such an interesting push and pull on we know that Tava's right. But shouldn't there be some room for people to redeem themselves. Then again,

for Tuttle to say, you've spent time in the outer rim. Have you heard of Navarro? It's like, what were you doing out there in the outer rim? Right, exactly. So I had the same thought.

You do want to be able to have room in this galaxy for second chances for new beginnings, and especially because a lot of people who were thrust into some work for the empire would not have wanted that necessarily. In this particular case,

I thought that I thought that Captain Teva was saved by the specific things he was responding to because the way that she is like saying they're not a member state and okay well maybe this will show

other planets the necessity of signing up like when he notes that that sounds like a very imperial stance he's right. You know, join or die is like a pretty hideously rigid position And she's just espousing that out in the open. And of course, then you get to him saying,

you didn't see the light you were captured. And the way that she says, no, I was liberated. It's like... Yeah, she basically said it's a nice outer rim planet you got there would be a real shame of something happened to it. Just the fascist vibes were pulsating off of her in this sequence, definitely. Total, listen, not a fascist. not supporting imperial policies as far as we know,

but not doing much else either, and that's the problem. Says they have the backlog of requests for member planets, no resources to spare. And this is where you had called out the trailer line a couple pods ago and how this hadn't come into play yet, and we got it here, and it was really central in the episode.

There's a lot of attention drawn to, and it called back to a similar thing we had heard from Carson in C. season two, because he told Carrad Dune at the time there's something going on out here. They don't believe it on the Coral Worlds, but it's true. These aren't isolated incidents. They need

to be stopped before it's too late, but we can't do it without local support. Now, based on Favs' comments on the timeline, that was like literally years ago. And so he's still needing to stand here in Colonel Tuttle's office on Currasson and say, my dude, there are

stormtroopers on the streets. There are tie fighters above, Moth Gideon was quite literally standing in town, gunning down, his foes now of pirates there. These events all could be connected, he says. Now, we don't know. He'll come back to that idea with Dyn, the covert cove, of whether Pirate King Gory and Chard is actually connected to Gideon. We don't know that. But every other thing he just listed, all of those things are connected to Gideon.

And so just that positioning in this episode. And Chard name drops, Gideon. He does. Exactly. So, like, what does that connection imply? Gideon, a big fan of Pirate Nation, loves the Pirate Nation merch. That's where you're going with the fandom.

Where's the Pirate Nation jersey, do you think? I don't know. We'll see. Let's do that. Let's make Pirate Nation merch. Let's get on that. Bogotan campaign platform video and Pirate Nation merch. These are our action items after the last few pods. Steve, can we hear the heart of the warning,

this real harbinger that Teva issues as he is dismissed? There's something dangerous happening out there. All these events, it's not coincidence. And by the time it becomes big enough for you to act, it'll be too late. I love this because, okay, I mean, I both do and don't love a deceptively cut trailer. But when you look at this line in the trailer, it looks so much like he's talking to Dinn when he's saying this. I should have noted that he's like clearly in an office when he says this. There are a lot of offices in the Dino Turtle Cave, you know.

know. Dinger and big office guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Loves the office. It was an ergonomic setup. And speaking of that, like, would you think the carpal tunnel is like when you're doing office work, but you're wearing mandolian fan braces?

Is that like helpful? I think it's helpful. I think it's helpful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite ergonomic, I think. So, and your posture is perfect.

Yeah, impeccable because you can't move. You literally can't. Okay. So what's interesting about that Carson-Tava line that we talked about literally last week was because I was going through all the footage in the trailers that we hadn't seen yet. And what's interesting is that between this Tava moment and the Mando Fight in Navarro, we have now seen literally every frame that is in all the trailers. So the last three episodes are a black box to us.

And that is very exciting. Thrilling. Not even Misty can break that black box for us, Joe. That's a reference to the television series. Buzz, Buzz, Bub, baby. Okay, so Joe, this scene, this glimpse into the New Republic's ineptitude. This isn't a rebellion anymore. We have structure now.

More effective, more seamless in terms of how it was incorporated into the episode than the Pershing and Keene detour in Chapter 19. How did this compare to you overall? Does it make you more receptive to getting more scenes like this in the future? Is this still not something you want much of in your mando? No, I'm fine with it. And especially as it's seated in here, I think the answer is what's the answer is what that previous episode really needed was Tim Meadows.

Like if Tim Meadows had just been there with the mind flare, maybe I would have been more down with that episode. But yeah, I love this scene. And especially like paperwork and office, like all of this is just screaming bureaucracy. Can I read this email that we got from listener Aaron? Okay. So Aaron wrote in and said after watching this episode, Palpatine's line for the Phantom Menace hit so much harder. Because Aaron wrote that, and I cannot resist listening to our guy in McDermott. We're going to hear Palpatine's line from the Phantom Menace.

Steve, will you play it, please? Enter the bureaucrat. The true rulers of the Republic. And on the payroll of the trade federation, I might add. This is where Chancellor of Loran's strength will disappear. Somehow Palpatine returned here at the House of Ar. In our podcast. Sidebar from Joanna, before we get back to Aaron's email.

If you do not recall the context of that line from the Phantom Menace, like the point is, I mean, he's manipulating poor Natalie Portman into doing his will and doing a vote of no confidence and so that he could slide into Valoram's place and become, you know, Chancellor, eventually Emperor, blah, but the issue on the table here is Padme is trying to talk about Nabu being attacked and will Chandler, Senator Valorum look into this.

And Valorum, after someone whispers in his ear, is like, hmm, you know? And she's like, how fucking dare you vote of no confidence, right? Which is exactly what Palpi wanted. But like, the connection between Padme and her defense of Nabu and what Teva is trying to do here for Navarro, you know, everything old is new again. It's the same, it's the same cycle of corruption and the pendulum swinging back and forth. between imperial control, you know, a republic, a new republic, the first order, blah, blah, and I just love that parallel. Okay, let me get back to Aaron's email where he says, this hit hard with the Tim Meadows character.

The thing that struck me wasn't that Kane got him to say no to helping Navarro. It's that he was looking for a reason to say no the entire time. Even if Navarro was a new republic territory, he still probably would have landed on an excuse like there are closer planets that need help. It'll take less fuel to help them or trying to ration or something. some shit like that. So I love a Palpi comp. Enter the bureaucrats is such a good line. I mean, you know, we have our prequel issues, but when it, when it hits, it hits. What do you think, Mal? Oh, always love to spend time with Palpi, except in Rise of Skywalker. Other than that,

always love to spend time with Palfi. Always. No, it's great. And I think that, I mean, that is, you know, obviously one of the real treats of the prequel is watching the susceptibility to the, the manipulation and how ultimately easy it was. He bided his time, but how easy it was for him to move the pieces across the board and the way that he needed to. And, you know, because of all of the conversations we've already had about the cloning plot and the strand casting and how we think this is all connecting to that, that palpi end game, is it the end game who can say, well, we have another kill in years.

I don't even want to get there. But the manipulation is still at work, you know? Right. What Cain is doing here is essentially, you know, the same sort of whisper campaign that Palpatine was working on Padmae. And I think this is not the last time we're going to talk about a Palpatine strategy within this episode. I have more to say on that later. More to say? Have you?

We also got a really interesting email from Luke. I'm not going to read the whole thing out, but basically, like, Luke is asking, this goes back to the question we had a couple episodes ago with the Pershing plot, which is like, this idea of just because you have to have these dynamic leaders to lead a rebellion, but oftentimes the people who led the rebellion are not the people who wind up ruling the Republic, the government after. And so someone like Luthin, our beloved Luthin from Andor, who has, we have a lot of questions about his moral compass, but like the amnesty program does not exist under a Luthin, right, is sort of Luke's point.

And so while this is very much like Hydra infiltrating Shield, like it's an easy comp to make, I think that larger question of where is the leadership in this new republic? Who is, like, I think it matters that we've not seen. Again, there's some information in the books like that. But like we're seeing functionaries. We're seeing lower level people. Like this is what we're seeing as we consider the failures in the New Republic. That's interesting because I think the fact that Luton wouldn't allow the amnesty program is not necessarily to his credit.

And that the, like you were saying earlier, and that the fact that this new body is inclined to think about rehabilitation and acclimating a new to society is to its credit. But you need to be paying attention. You need to be working. Like, if we think back to the Pershing scenes with the droid that was attached to a stump of concrete, like, what level of engagement is there really in building a new society? And when you're just saying, I don't have room on my desk for these data disks, but you're not getting back to the people in your universe who need you

and your own, to this point, loyal soldiers are standing around the bar saying, don't even bother. Like, that's a really damning thing. I think whether it's Luthin or Monmouthma or Leah or any of the other leaders, you know, it gets back to something that we talked about a couple pods ago in the episode three pod, that some of the intentions can be right. You know, let's get rid of 90% of our military fleet

because we don't want to have the apparatus in place for war. So real Democrat shit, honestly. Not only where does that lead you, but like, how are you going from being a few people who animated this cause into a truly functional connected machine. Right. And how do you port down the lessons and the guidance so that the people, the galaxy is a big place, you know?

Luthin or any other one person can't do it alone. And that seems to be really one of the ways that they have failed is like for all of Tuddles talk in this place about how they have structure now, not really. And when it was a rebellion and they were out there. there on the front line thinking every minute about what was happening, they were more equipped to actually understand the state of affairs. If we want to dig deeper, I mean, like, so, I mean, what seems increasingly true or always true when we ever think about is like, how could anyone, any federation, any republic possibly hope to govern this many planets, this many systems as we go

further and further out rim by rim. Many characters and planets and Star Wars over the years have said that shouldn't be the case. And this is why we, we, you know, we. And this is why we, you know, always have Star Wars and never restore peace. But it circles back to the central conversation we've been having this season about the Mandalorians because when we're talking about the Mandalrians and we'll talk about this later at the episode about them as like a unified culture, well, no, they're not and they never have been. And so it's like, how can you possibly hope to lead all factions of Mandalorians when all factions

of Mandalorians have such different ideologies and ways of life and stuff like that? So is it worth uniting them all under one banner? Or is that just simply a lost cause to begin with, you know? Well, and where's the room in the universe for unity with distinction? Yeah, without homogene. Because pursuing homogene is like, that is the path to the dark side. The dark side. But we have to head on the path to the covert currently because.

Captain Carson Tava is resourceful and aided by his rebellion mate R5D4 he has made his way to the Covert's Cove and I just want to know are you do you want to take a moment here to issue a formal apology to R5 for doubting a service record? Okay if you don't recall a couple episodes ago

I was like did R5 ever really actually serve a rebellion? I guess from the premiere rate and Mueller's like how dare you besverch R5 and then what I love is that when Mallory is putting together the notes for today's episode. She just wrote the notes.

That'll teach everyone to doubt his record at ingenuity, exclamation mark. And even though she didn't say, Joanna, we all know that she was talking about me. So yes, I would like to issue a formal apology. I'm not apologizing to Mallory. She still owes me from a Yellow Jackets podcast. But I would like to apologize. I want you to put this in the notes app, take a screenshot, and tweet it. I would like to apologize, formally apologize to our.

for ever doubting his record and ingenuity. But also he's a snitch. So we should just say. Listen, Dean and the Mandalarians never earned his loyalty. Those fuckers were just like, go into the maybe poison layer and stop whining, you baby. I stand with R5.

A hunted people. There are hunted people who prize their secrecy. That's relevant here because as they watch. And R5 gets one text from Carson Tammond is like, like, L-O-L I'm with them. He's like, let me send you my pin. Let me drop a pin. When Tava approaches the cave, the mouth of the cave,

see, this is where like, I'm glad that everyone was fine here, but if they knew how to summon the dino turtle, they could have just taken care of business, which brings me to that fucker, Paz Vizla, who everyone's very concerned, okay, someone has found us, we prize our secrecy, now we need to move. Great, an excuse I would say,

say to escape the dino bird and dino turtle lair at last, but no, pass Vizlo, Joanna. Yeah. Would rather murder Captain Carson Deva. Murder him. Kill him. Says out loud, we could just kill him and stay. Then move away from the base where they are constantly attacked and their foundlings are constantly eaten by wild beasts.

Have you ever seen a bigger? moron than Paz Vizla on your television screen. Can I ask you a question that might make me seem like the biggest moron in all of Star Wars fandom? Why is Paz Vizla calling him Blue Boy and Mando calls him blue? Are we to assume that he was part of Blue Squadron? But like, he's not wearing Blue. He's got the Blue Helmet.

He's got the Blue Helmet. Carra called him Blue in season two. So we see a lot of blue in the New Republic color scheme. Yeah. So whether it's actually like blue squadron and there's like a big comeback for blue and blue squadron or whether this is more about New Republic affiliation. Zeb is wearing blue. This is just, yeah, Zeb was wearing blue. That's the thing.

It's tough to pull off and yet he did. Oh, elegantly. But like if Tava had wandered up in the blue jumpsuit, I have no questions. But yeah, the blue helmet, I guess. But like, so without that like sort of obvious thing, then it just sounds like calling cops pigs essentially, right? He's like, get out of here pig. And even even Dinn says it, right? But I thought Blue Boy was like pretty funny.

Like I hate Pasviz as much as you do, but Blue Boy crack me up. It was fine. Yeah. It was fine. If any other character other than Pass fucking Vislets, I don't know. It was funny. It did make me laugh. This guy is such a moron though.

What a total adult. That's the most. Bill Simmons you've ever sounded on the podcast. Patriots, Mac Jones, Red Sox. Okay. Dan Spares Teva. Yeah. Returns the favor because, of course,

Carson saved him back on Maldow crease in season two, simpler times when all we were worried about was whether Grogu was evil because he was eating frog ladies' eggs. Carson tells Din that grief needs help. He is counting rightly, ultimately, on the friendship that he know exists there. to pulled in to Navarro's aid. But he also explains that he's got something bigger

on his mind. He says, the new republic has to know that the empire's growing again. Now, this will surely become a Mandalorian goal as well. Even in his pitch to the covert, Dyn espouses this idea.

The Imperials, not Grief Karga, who ultimately destroyed our covert back on Navarro. This is where we get the idea of the pirate connection again and Davis says something doesn't smell right. Maybe he's,

do you think he was, do you think he's just smelling the mandolars? I think they'll take off their armor and bat. I think you're still thinking about them. Oh, God. And then I thought very sweetly and thoughtfully, he said, I know you're going to go anyway, but I promise. I will reveal where you are, and then he bounces.

Love this guy. Love him. Clear out, blue boy. A blue boy. Blue boy, something about the, like, the cadence of Blue Boy, it just sounds like blue balls to me. Oh, okay. But I don't know.

I mean, maybe that's also. true. How much time, as we've talked about previously, does everyone in the galaxy have to fuck? I don't know. Okay. So the question, we got, as you might imagine, we got a lot of, I don't have any emails to read here, but we had a lot of responses to our do Mandalorian's fuck conversation last week. And a lot of people pointed out, rightly so. I think it's like, maybe they don't, and that's why they're so into adoption, right? Like, like, because do Manaloreans get pregnant? Does the armor give for pregnancy? Or do we just go around and adopt people? And that's, how we keep our numbers up.

I'm waiting for a Bobby Barathean-esque line about getting the breastplate stretcher when somebody needs to expand the armor. Who will be the Lansel scooting off looking for a thing that does not exist? Can't wait to find out to do it and see it. Maroon helmet. Yeah, a maroon helmet. Dean, of course, does exactly what Carson thinks he's going to do, which is try to rally the troops, try to garner support to go to Navarro to help.

And we watch this ritual. this gathering. I need to... Yeah. I need everyone to understand the difference between Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson, right? So, Mallory, what it was, as Dian holds the hammer, what comp are you making for holding the hammer you get to speak? I'm going with the conch shell and Lord of the Flies.

That was what it made me think of. Okay. What about you? Spirit Stick from Bring It On. I love it. I love... Equally high-brows references. House of Our walks in two worlds.

This is the way to retake Mandelor. I mean, I really think... I really think probably the hammer should be, like, bedazzled and perhaps have, like, you know, some, a palm bum or two on it to make it a true spirit stick. But, um... But, um... But, yeah, I mean, I love, I love the hammer as like a conch shell and or spirit stick here. This is great.

Um, okay. What did you think of Din's pitch? Listen. They... What am I meant to do? with the information that they don't have any ships. How did they get there? This was genuinely confusing.

The jet packs have a very limited range. And even though the helmet seal, I don't think we're jetpacking from planet to planet. And follow up question, where is their reserves of fuel for like to refill the jetpack when they lose another foundling to the dino bird? I don't know. But they don't have ships?

Here's the only thing I didn't think of. because they can't, we have seen Dinn after the Razor Crest was destroyed, use public transportation. There was the all-time befuddling moment where he checked the dark saber. I'll never forget it. I'll take it to my grave.

But the covert can't be doing that because then people would know where they were. There's literally impossible. On Donald Turtle Cove. Right, yeah. Like you wouldn't say, yeah, drop me off here. Like, I'm just going to take a lift

to my secret location. Maybe they have. very limited vessels and like whoever, but they're out now on a recruiting mission. I don't mean to just, we haven't met. I don't mean to nitpick. No, nitpick away. But like if he had just said, we don't have any ships big enough for an operation like

this or something like that, you know what I mean? But he didn't say that. Just says we don't have any ships and in like unnecessary logistics problem we're entering into the conversation. Here is, I think, the actual answer, though, it's not a good one. I think they just wanted the battle to be the, the gauntlet in the N1. And it's cool.

And it's very cool. And of course that's why it is. But we don't... Because it separates Dinn and... We don't even have ships. It was strange. It was a screeching breaks moment without question. Very, very weird.

Tough stuff for the covert here. Okay, but overall, his pitch is pretty good. Now many of you don't know Grief Karga, but yeah, you might remember him from fighting him in season one. But like, you know. Some you fought him in chapter three. Many cycles ago, he says. Yeah.

One timeline wink. But, um, the enemy that Descamed is very covert were Imperials, not Grief Cargaz bounty hunters. And he tells him that grief has had a change of heart. Yeah. That he saved him in Grogo. And I liked that as a way to appeal to them because it connects to this larger theme of

this episode and this season, which is this covert, this group of Mandalrians, learning to embrace. those who have managed to themselves embrace change in some form, like who help other people hear, of course, the conversation with Beau. What is the way? About, yeah, help. You help to foundling. So it's changing how I think about you. And like, this is an important thing for this group of people to embrace. But it's very interesting. You know this part where he says, perhaps it's time for us to live in a light once again on a planet or we are welcome. So our culture may flourish. And our children can feel what it is to play in the sunlight. And you and I thought of

the exact same thing, which is... Go back to Sorgon. Yeah. And like... Go back to O'Mara. But it's so interesting to say, live in the light and our children can feel what it is to play in the sunlight. Doesn't that sound like helmet off behavior? Yeah.

You know what I mean? Vitamin D. Soak up the rays right in your face without question. I mean, just has to get very hot out in the sun if you're in basketball. So our children can feel once again what it's like to sweat profusely. This was very sweet, though. I did really like this. And one of the things I liked about it is,

we've chatted a lot the last few weeks about how Dinn is receding inside of his own show in a way that is, even though we welcome the emergence of Bo, the Dinn aspect of it is strange. He is still responding here to somebody else's call. You know, he is answering Carson's and Nuss Grief's request for help. But he's not just saying, I owe this guy.

Let's go. he's he's sketching out what life can look like for them he's telling them how things can be different how they can choose a different kind of life than the one they've been living and that specifically is the thing going back to our preview pod that we've been saying we want to see more of from din and we got a little bit of it here it's interesting we got an email from a listener Doug who said

since his redemption by creed din has been content to hang out with grogoo and the children of the watch he will respond to threats as they arise and generally wants to help people, but there isn't anything he is actively trying to achieve. Even thinking of earlier episodes, he is often just reacting to things happening to him. This isn't always a problem since the audience responds well to Grogu and thus Dynne, when he helps Grogu navigate danger.

However, it seems like we may once again, like, blah, blah, there's some later episode stuff in here, but it's like, who is Dyn and what does he want? Aside from wanting to protect Grogu, I'm not really sure. am I being too harsh? I just thought it was like really, whether or not I fully agree with Doug, I thought it was a really interesting question.

It made me stop and think like, yeah, what is, in any sort of story, we need to know what our protagonist needs to want something. And like, at the start of the season, it was like he wants redemption in the living waters. And then he gets in and after that, you know, wants to train Grogu a bit, you know, like there, but there isn't versus,

I mean, talked about this in previous pods of around the season, I need to get Grogo to his people, or I need this, that, and the other thing. Or, like, the moment that we love the most is in Book of Bobavan, when Dinjorn goes to visit Groger-Wellie's training with Luke. And he yearns and he needs and he wants. He's right there. It came all this way. So I think that imbalance between Bo and Din and the season is not even just screen time, but it is a gap between a character who really wants something.

And for Bo, we think it's belonging when we are at our most skeptical, cynical selves. We think there might be some other agenda there. But for the most part, I think it's just belonging a people, a community. She actively wants something. And Dan is a protagonist just doesn't feel like he's got movement around him. Again, reactive. I think that's really interesting. It doesn't make me like automatically dislike the season.

It's just an interesting narrative choice to ask of your protagonist, what do you want? and it's sort of like, not much, you know, three squares by myself around a quarter somewhere, like something like that, you know? I think that has a chance. And I think that's why I really, like, latched onto this line and the fact that Dinn was being more active and what he was sketching out as a vision for the future. Like, because maybe more of that is on the horizon. Maybe I just would be, I want Bo and Dyn to get along. I'm not rooting for a rift.

to be clear. But I would be surprised if the next three episodes and beyond in subsequent seasons just Din happily trotting along as Bo and the armor set the course of Mandalorian history, that seems unlikely to me.

As you know, when it comes to leadership, I don't want it. Like, Den doesn't want it. Yeah, doesn't want the Dark Saber, doesn't want to rule. I wasn't interested in going to retake Mandalorian initially. That was Bo's idea

and eventually it builds and it builds, right? It doesn't seem that all that interested in learning how to use the Dark Saber, by the way. We've not seen a Dark Savor training montage. Why? I will be stunned if that is not a prominent part of next week's episode. Though I also wouldn't be surprised if next week is just like All a Gideon. Well, because it's Bryce directing, I think it's going to be helmetless bow heavy. She does a lot of like recruiting female-centric episodes.

Bo going to find Sabine next week as step one in the larger recruitment mission would be an absolutely perfect Bryce episode. Then maybe we get Gideon and Seven, which is typically where we get Gideon. Exactly. We solved it. Look at us. Look at us. Joe, Din tells Bo, it's up to the covert now. You might be wondering, does anyone else want to speak?

Does anyone else have anything they'd like to contribute for sharing? And I'm glad you asked. Steve has another soundbite for us, Steve. I saw many die to save the life of this one tiny foundling. And now we are asked to sacrifice yet again. The question we should be asking ourselves is why? Why should we lay our lives down yet again? Because we are Mandalorians.

Pass Vizal, you are on notice. Keep Grogu's name or any mention of him out of your fucking mouth. You needy ham hogging the cave light with your dramatic fakeout Just because you need attention. Horragious. Yeah. I mean, like, obviously he's doing a like a good old reversal speech, right? Be like, why would we possibly do this?

Because we will because we're good guys. But like while you're watching, you're like, this is so fucking rich. We all just sacrificed a lot to, we all just climbed a mountain in heavy armor poorly, I might add. in order to save your family. Yeah. We risked being eaten by a beast with a chronic case of dry mouth for your fucking foundling.

I thought it was interesting that he noted that Dinn and Bo, he's talking about how Dinn and Bo both save the kid, how the disagreement shouldn't trump the path forward. Lovely, great. Everyone can learn to grow, Paz, good on you.

But then he said these two were asking us to take up arms in the name of a brighter future. We did not hear Bo address the group. Is it possible that she did and that scene got cut and there's like an editing error here? Or do you think that they're all just assuming that Bo and Dinn are aligned and are a pair in all matters, which again feels like poising us for a potential seismic disagreement? They're sitting awfully close to each other at this little fireside chat here.

It's okay, let's go back to that. They're huddling up. They're canoodling. It's true. That brings us to mission prep time with Bo. Very noticely. Imagine canootling in armor. I can never, right? Clank. Just a lot of clangin.

Just a lot of clanging. Bo is leading the pre-departure training, Joe. It's her ship, so this makes sense, but it still feels notable that she's the best warrior. She's the most seasoned battle tactician. She's the one they're turning to for guidance. The plan, in essence, is we're going to drop ship you to the ground. Dan and Bo will reinforce from above.

will use the element of surprise to defeat a larger foe, but she's not just focused on the military strategy. She is also thinking about the future, says to them that the very independence that makes it appealing for you to settle, for you. Not us. Not us.

Not us yet here. They cut to the armorer's face in that moment. Well, sorry, not the armorer's face. They cut to the armorer's helmet in that moment. This is not the last time I'm going to say this in this episode. And it might surprise you that this is a second time today. I've cited this situation. But you know how in Lost Jack Shepherd has a truly terrible tattoo?

Absolutely. And what is it says? He walks among us, but he is not one of us. And I thought about that a lot in this episode. She walks among us, but she is not one of us. What does it take to be really in the covert? And maybe like the armor would say she is one of us. And Bo's like, I'm not quite there yet mentally.

I did have talk. I talked about Jack Tattoo on the watch today. Like, can you believe this? I've done it twice. Stranger in a strange land, baby. Why would I do this? I love this. Both pep talk then includes a line you live there once, hiding in the sewers.

But now you can be heroes just for one day. Why did it did not pop over and start singing? I. I will be king. you you will be queen why don't we get a musical number here is it because you and McGregor's not involved

in this particular production maybe hiding in the sewers you say is that what Beau said hey Steve can you remind us about sewers and Mandalorians it is not the way of your people to hide here in the gutters

gutters and sewers same thing I say just needed to get a little sandwich we're in there. Thanks so much for that, Steve. Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. You never miss a moment to spend time with your bay. Darth Mall. Love this for you.

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I love things less for the citizens of Navarro, Joe, because things are bleak. The pirates are abusing the locals who couldn't escape to the lava flats. There's rubble everywhere. This guy who's just trying to bring them food, by the way. I know. I know. It's terrible. Joanna, the pirates who are all hammered. They're shooting the monkey lizards. Really tough behavior from the pilot. Like if Pirate Nation wants to get me on their side, they are not making a good case to themselves here. Sloppy. Like not even one pirate is like sitting down and playing like the space accordion or something like that.

Like usually the pirates are doing a mix of, you know, pillaging and some sort of nice carousing. This is all bad carousing, bad pillaging all bad all the time. Yeah. Where's the pirate nation equivalent of Nemek just with a thoughtful manifesto? Yes. That's what you want. You want a pirate manifesto. I do want a pirate nation manifesto.

What you're getting instead is the N1, which arrives to draw attention. We get to see Shard, Pirate King, Gorian Shard in the daylight here. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. The way the sunbeams dapple on his seaweed face. I genuinely love Wakamai salad. There was a point of my life when I worked in right next. to Japan Town in San Francisco.

And I would get Wakame salad like every day for lunch. It's the most delicious thing. Sounds wonderful. We go for some right now. What kind of dressing would you put on Pirate King, Gory, and Shard? You just do like a classic Wakame, like sort of sesame seed oil situation. Yeah. Wonderful.

Wonderful. How about you? That sounds great. I love a sesame seed dressing. Maybe there's, maybe there's some of that on offer over on the open, tracks of land, more open tracks of land than ever before. Amanda tells Grief, who's very happy to see his pal, that he's there to take him up on the offer. We get a fun little moment where grief tells Mando that they're outnumbered 10 to 1. And Mando says, I like those odds. Callback King.

This makes us think of course of Chapter 3 when he walked into the client's lair to rescue sweet baby Grogo in the first place. And the troopers were like, we have you four to one. And what does Grief Kargis say? Oh, I bet you do. Oh, I bet you do. It's still like, hey Peter Parker energy from Gravecar together. I hate Peter Parker energy. Oh, man. Now I want to, ah, man, now I want to go do a Infinity Saga rewatch.

Thanks. Great, let's do it. A battle ensues, Joe. I know you love to, you love to talk about the battles in season three of the Mandalorian. Want to hit some highlights? and Zellins, obviously. And they're like, just like ground level enjoying the whole thing, right?

Not only did they not leave. And maybe the glass is broken because of the atrocities that have unfolded on Navarro, it's possible. But maybe they broke their own glass so that they would have like a box seat view of the match unfolding. And they're just there front row cheering as they watch the fight. Slurping down the bud light enjoying it.

So precious. I will talk about some things that happened, but I will say that I got so – because when we were watching the battle unfold and I'm like, I wasn't even sure the armor was there. And then we watched her sneak up like Joel Miller in a tower approaching an old dude, an old sniper in a crow's nest. And she's just like hammer and tongs them. And it's great. And I loved it. But I think what I was missing in this battle – and I like – the aerial stuff is good too, et cetera.

but like on the ground. Yeah. Literally the only character we have to like latch on to is Paz Vizla who you hate. And there's no other, like we don't know any of else, any other helmeted Mandalorian. We cannot track their personalities. We don't know them. I don't even have fun nicknames for them like I do the many, many white men and bandit brothers when I'm trying to keep them apart in the battle sequences.

You know what I mean? And I have to come up with nicknames for all of them to like track them. I can't do, it's like maroon helmet, Kelly Green helmet. Like one of my sisters. And then a bunch of, you know, reprehensible pirate. I was just sort of like, it's squid faces versus helmets, and I'm not, like, emotionally invested enough in any of this. That's an interesting point because, you know,

if we think of the larger Philoniverse and the Clone Wars in particular, like one of the central missions of that show was to really make you forge a connection to the clones and not just think of them as helmets out in the field and these, like, faceless masses who are waging a war against another group, of, in essence, faceless nasses, the B-1s and the B-2s. But part of the reason they were able to achieve that is because we got to meet so many of the clones and learn their names and see their different haircuts

and learn what tattoos they had chosen to get and what they liked and what they didn't and how they thought about the war and their role in the galaxy and how much time they had. So yeah, like we need to meet some more of these Mandalarians. Like if they're going to be so central to the show moving forward, this larger group, it's time to learn. And we're optimistic.

who some of them are. Obviously, with things that happen in the episode that we might soon. But like, it took me a little bit out of the battle to be like, oh, no. Blue Guy, you know what I mean? Man, too, to quote the subtitles, which was pretty funny. I do want to know. I want to know the names and the hearts of the characters who thought that they were boxed in despite wearing fucking jet packs. I can't wait to learn everything about all of these people.

The drop ship stuff was fun. It was neat to see that. Vane, your guy, Vane, gets away. yet again, still alive and thriving in the galaxy. Let's go back in time. It's one thing for you, I have opened the door for you to make the claim that Darth Mall is my bay,

but I have done nothing, nothing. Pirate Nation, put me on your mailing list. You've said it like 50 times today. You love the pirate. Just because you want to read the literature doesn't mean you want to like my guy vain, though. Yeah, you just want to be informed. You mourned, though.

You mourned when we had to say goodbye to Pirate King Gory and Shard. Listen, I did. And his little like Smee, this little like sidekick. Yeah, I did. Love an Ognaut.

Victory is at hand. And so are a couple post-victory offers, Joanna Robinson. Let's chat first briefly before we get to the really crucial one with Bow and the Armourer about the exchange between grief

and all of the assembled Mandaloreans. This is one of the rare moments where we get to hear Grogu when grief is thanking everybody, he's calling them their liberators. Grogo gives this darling little coup. He has a sweetened his little lug on his face and just love him. Haven't gotten to say that much today.

Perfect baby. It's cool to see even briefly the citizens of Navarro and the Mandalorian covert members just standing there together, hanging out, out in the open. Like, could this be life? I mean, the answer is going to be no, because they're going to go try to retake Mandelor. But for a minute, we wondered.

Could this be life? Grief offers them all of the land between the Western lava flats and Bullock Canyon. Okay. Barely any neighbors, Joe. It's my ideal in yours. You know that to be true. Perfect. No neighbors.

Sounds great to me. Star Wars fans know that Bullock Canyon is a reference to Jeremy Bullock who played Boba Fett. However, I was thinking about Seth Bullock, aka Timothy. the Oliphon, aka Cobvan. Cobvan, come to Bullock Canyon. It's waiting for you. Maybe this was a way, even though it's definitely for Jeremy Bullock, like a little way to me.

It just remind you that. It was for me. God was coming. Yeah. Timmy O. On his way. It was like 50% for Jeremy Bullock, 50% for me, right? Like, that's probably how that broke down.

Oh, I love it. We go from this very sweet note from grief. You may no longer have a home planet, but you do now have a home. welcome. You know, it's that old Asgard idea yet again, Joe. Into a different pitch. A different offer. The armor has summoned bow via Paz.

God, I can't escape him. Into the old... There's such a weird shot. Okay, so Paz is like the armor wants... The armor wishes speak to you. And then there's just like a really weird shot of us following Paz down the stairs. And I don't know if it's like... I haven't gone back and rewatched.

Maybe there's like an identical shot of Paz going down those stairs into... to their old covert sewer gutter arrangement, and it was a visual callback, but I was like, why is this shot here? This is such a weird, or maybe it's just to, like, reinforce that we're going down into the sewer gutter. I don't know.

But, like, weird, unnecessary shot, as far as I'm concerned. But we're back in the gutters. Darth Mall would be so upset to find out. Oh, boy, especially when he saw them all Super Commando horns on the armorer's head, certainly. just as in last week's episode with Grogu, when the armorer talked about how just as we shaped the Mandalorian steel, we shape ourselves,

the armorer uses the forge here in this sequence to make a larger point about Mandalorian society. Says to Bo, this was once the forge of our covert. I have been to the great forge on Mandelor. Bo says, I remember the forge well. The armor continues. It was large and ornate, and the air rang with the music of a hundred hammers.

That made me think of the hammering sound in the Andor. And here stood a simple one, yet they were both forges. They served the same purpose. So here's this idea that we have been waiting for and craving. We're going to hit a couple other points and we'll circle back to what worked really well about this for us and what we still have questions about. But to hear the armor say, in essence, there's more than one way with a lowercase W and thus more than one way with a capital W is the thing that we have been craving.

It's so weird because, like, obviously, I mean, that's probably what is happening here. But I think, I don't know. I think I'm just so distrustful of, like, fundamentalist religions that I'm just like... Me too. I'm not getting comfortable with the armory yet. I'm not convinced that this, like, proselytizing mission that she's sending Bo on is the end result. She's like, no matter what kind of Mando you are coming to the pool, I think her... It feels to me like her mission is like, get a slap a helmet on everyone.

That's what I'm worried about, you know. Yes. I still have a lot of concerns, but this is what she wants. Bo to think, at least. All right, so she tells Bo not once but twice to remove her helmet. And we are like, we don't trust her. But we do want to cite the prophets, Jamie and Steve, on the Midnight Boys, who phew, who felt a little free zone of something between the armor or

And it's because I'm not surprised. Stephen Jomiar tapped in to the internet discourse because I didn't realize this when we talked about this last week, but we received many, many, many, many, many, many, many, emails about the fact that the internet at large appears to be shipping the armorer and Bo Catan. Forget Dingerin. Leave Cobbant out of your mouth. It is the armor and, and Bo. We got this email from Laura who says, can't believe in your recent discussion. of Mandalorian ships, did Bo, didn't Cob, etc. You didn't mention Tumblr's new favorite ship, Bo and the Armor.

Every episode fuels my totally delusional belief that they are meant for each other, despite Disney's established reticence on LGBTQ plus representation. I always sensed or hoped for queer vibe from Bo Catan, from her smacking Asoka's ass in her very first appearance to the iconic bisexual sprawl on her throne in the season three premiere. So I am keeping the faith. also other than the fact that I don't trust the armor completely I love it I'm into it we also got an email from Tama who's like who's like suggests that they can solve all of our

problems with the with the power thruple of bow Cobb and Den like why not all three let's just invite the armor point though yeah yeah yeah make it a polycule why not yeah sure everyone I love this I mean I will say the second utterance of remove your helmet after the D. Do You Respect My Station? That had like a... Hey, Peter Parker. Yeah.

Quality to it. It really did. Remove your helmet and come bathe in these living waters, you know? I'll show you my hammer and tongs. I ship it. Why not? I just want to see some people in the Mandalorian covert. I really mean...

More than any, than life itself, I need the armor to remove it. her helmet. I must know what's going on. Well, I mean, you can do it now or you can save it for for wigwatch, but it's suddenly a possibility, Joanna. How happy were you when she ordered Bo to remove her helmet? Thrill. Like, how thrilled were you? Thrill. Thrilled, obviously. Um, no, let's save some thoughts for bigwatch. Okay. Save it for the corner. In the meantime, let's hear a little bit more of what is on the armorer's mind here. Steve, can you place this clip. Our people have strayed from the way, and it is not enough for a few to walk it.

We must walk it together. We must walk the way together. Oh, Mandalorians. She continues with what we heard at the top of the episode in our opening clip today, that she believes, or saying she believes, the myth of sort tale now, that she's taking it as a sign of the new age. She wants to unite all Mandalorians. she thinks Beau is the one you can.

When she says straight from the way and we must walk the way together, that sounds like proselytizing. Like everyone has to do it our way, the one way. Right. We have straight, like, and so to me,

take your helmet off and go recruit for us. You know, feels like sending her out of like Mormon mission. Like, you know, go door to door, take your helmet off so you don't scare them at first, right? And then, and then say like, hey, come on, we're cool. We're cool fundamentalist cult. Come join us. And now that you see that, like, yeah, occasionally let kids get taken by dino birds and dino turtles. But other than that,

and yeah, you have to go eat alone all the time. Other than that, we're pretty cool. Now put your helmet on and just sit down and shut up. You know what I mean? That's kind of what it sounds like what she wants ultimately. Yeah, I think that's like one of the pressing questions after this pretty surprising, I would say downright, shocking exchange and decision from the arm. is this a genuine awakening for the armorer. You know, we get this, I was taught and yet kind of language. Like, maybe I am seeing and really considering that the things I thought were true aren't, that the things I've been saying don't have to be the strict rules by which we

live our life. The armor walks into a literal beam of light, as she is saying. a new age is upon us. Just like the staging of that sequence positioned that like she is embracing something new. But yeah, we're always going to wonder, especially because of the things you just pointed out in this larger, like, it reminds me of something that we've been talking about. I won't spoil the characters, but on our Yellow Jackets pod that you've been observing about a character. We're trying to figure out what trust level should be there. And there's a lot of comforted support, but it's happening with people who are really vulnerable.

And Bo is in a very vulnerable position. Literally isolated. This is cult behavior 101. You take the most isolated person. Let me make you feel comfortable so that you do what I want and stick around. And is fueling Bose like lifelong. Okay. So Katie Stockoff gave this interview to Entertainment Weekly talking about Bo's mentality, right?

Because we were talking about like, does Bo have a secret agenda? Does she really want to join? What is she doing? And Katie says, provide him. we believe her. Kitty says, I truly believe at this point that Bo hopes someone else steps up. She doesn't want the responsibility. The responsibility costs her everything. Leading didn't work, so maybe fitting in will. Again, that's like classic vulnerable to cult coercion sort of state of mind. But also, the armor is feeding Boe exactly what she wants to hear, which is like,

you are the one to unite us. You are the one to lead us. This is the thing that Bo always sort of like thought for herself. And so is that like, does she mean that? Or is she just telling Bo what she wants to hear so that Bo will go do what she wants Bo to do? Well, I think that's a really interesting quote. And I think to that point and that question of does she want it anymore, that's where we initially found Bo. But then it became the only thing that she wanted. And yeah, I think like we have to wonder if the armorer is preying in some way upon... Ken, I don't know if this is just like my knee-jerk, like, hardcore suspicion of, like, hashtag not all religions, but certainly, like, aggressive, and, like, definitely all cults,

but, like, you know, certainly, like, aggressive proselytizers, you know? I think that, like, ultimately it would be very rewarding if the show's stance is that a character, like, the armor could change and evolve and embrace a more and close. existence. But based on our time with the children of the watch so far, we of course are going to be a little bit wary. Like, Sabine again was really on my mind here because, and we know the armorer knows this. We've mentioned many times in this season of pods how the armorer in Boba Fett Chapter 5 told in that Boe was a cautionary tale. And a lot of it was this idea of being gifted something. But it was gifted to her. This is about the dark state.

and not won by creed. It isn't that, now, Bo is the one who saw the Mythosaur, but isn't that what the armorer is doing here, gifting Bo, just as Sabine did, the right to rule. In Rebels, Sabine said to Bo,

you have the wisdom of a ruler, there's no one I trust to wield the dark saber more than you, and I am not alone. How did that go? And the armorer knows that history as well as anyone and has been espousing it to other people

as something to avoid. So is there a read on the situation where she's trying to set Bo up to fail again. And I think this gets, gets into that question of the dark saber was conspicuous in its absence here. Right. In terms, nobody mentioning it, nobody's saying, wait, well, I thought we're supposed to follow the guy who has, who has that.

And the mythosaur is also a symbol of the right to rule, a symbol of being chosen and sanctioned for the people of Mandelor to follow you. And so both maybe, and this would be, again, very satisfying if there's some sort of shared rule and shared pursuit. I've got the saber. You've got the mythosaur. any number of permutations there. If someone just wants to remember

that the Dark Sabre exists at all, that would be nice. That would be, that would be lovely. It is very funny when they go outside and announce this to the entire covert. Everybody's shocked to see Bo without her helmet. The armor just handwaves it all in a second by saying Boca Tan walks both worlds.

She could bring all tribes together. It is time to retake Mandelor. We had a very sweet little look at Grogo during the both worlds part. part. You know, we had the two pauldrons on Bo last week, this idea of multiple aspects of yourself, Grogo, as we've talked about many times, Jedi, Mandalorian.

Why not both? If I were Din, I would be fucking outraged. Not that people think Bo as a potentially valid leader. I think that Din would say same, but he had to go to fucking Mandalor when everyone thought it was cursed and poison.

He had to fight many monsters. He had to hear a pass, call him an apostate like 3,000 times. And now Bogot just gets to walk around without your helmet on. And this, I mean, this is what, like, makes me, I'm just so, again, I hope I'm wrong, because I think the armor is so cool looking. And I really like Emily Swellis' performance. So, like, I don't mean to cast aspersions.

But, like, for her to be like, this is the way you took your helmet off, like, get out of here, all this sort of stuff like that. And then she's like, take your helmet off and go do some recruiting for it. And, like, so how, so your belief is that malleable? And like the story of the Mithosaur being the thing that changed her mind when we've seen like nothing. Anyway, I'm just, I'm skeptical. Could it be that they did leave the covert and went out to Navarro and are interacting with other people and are out in the sun and it feels great? Could that be enough?

No, I think they're sweating profusely under their armor. I just want to, I want to shut out this email from Dino we got because like, okay, so if Bo is going on a, Bo is going on like a Mandalorian finding mission. Could Sabine Ren be a Mandalorian that she goes to find? I mean, I think if that's not step one, I would be stunned. They have a deep history together. Yeah. Sabine's mom, Arsa.

Maybe. Could be. Fenrow? I would love it. Boba Fett? Does Boba Fett count under the umbrella? Pretender. Are we going to see Boba Fett before the season's over?

Maybe. Who knows? Do you want to? I don't know. Fenrow I do want to see, though. Fenrow would be great. Yeah. Fenrow would be amazing.

Bring the protectors in at any point. I'm in. Plus, there's her night owls who abandoned her. But, like, I'm going to come back to this. Yeah. They'll come up in theory corner, I suspect. So I think that's the other thing with this change of heart from the armor. We talked about this a lot last week.

I think it's on both of our minds here again, that on the one hand, this is great in what we wanted, not only to move the plot forward, to go to Mandelor to put Bo in this kind of role in position, but that it's compelling to see characters like the armor and Bo both, who were really rigid in their own ways,

constantly talking about fractions and failures and curses and mistakes of the past, come together to forge a brighter future. very narratively rich putting their people and the good of their people over the dogma. Wonderful.

Embracing this idea of both worlds, that Grogo idea not as nil but as a good, great, but that we need to hear them grapple with

the wide chasm they have bridged in order to get there and like why we can't just get a couple lines where the armorer says, I used to think that you were responsible

for the fall of Mandelaar. I see I, I was wrong. That was a very rigid way to think about it. I'm sorry, I've learned something new. But hearing you talk about this, Joe, it makes me wonder if the reason we're not hearing that is because she doesn't feel that way. I mean, I don't want to fall into a trap that people often do when they're watching a show that is not a mystery box show and look for like twists and hidden agendas in a show like the Mandalorian that isn't usually a like twist and hidden agendas show necessarily. But would it be a twist if the armor actually was like, I don't trust you or want you to lead. I believe you're

responsible for everything that's gone wrong. That's part of why I feel so weird that they're not accounting for that here. I mean, it wouldn't be like a, it wouldn't be shocking to us, but it would be, I just feel like people aren't usually working long cons in the Mandalorian. But that being said, we're about to like hit potential long con discussion territory when we get to the final moment of this episode. But like, and long cons are. are like the hallmark of the Palpatine agenda, right? You know what I mean? So it's like, to what end?

But I don't know. I'm going to remain suspicious until the end of my days of the armor. So that's all. If you had to say right now, prediction time, does the armor mean what she's saying here? Is there a real alliance taking shape to reclaim Mandelaar? Will these characters remain aligned? Or is this?

I don't think they'll remain a lie. I think she's genuine in that. She's like, you have the ability to unite us. But what I think she's not saying is that and then everyone, or she kind of said it, and then everyone will follow the way, our way, the way, the one way. I don't think she's saying you, Bill Kitaner now are a leader to a bright new future. I mean, she doesn't say new age, but, you know, bright new future where helmet on, helmet off, all are welcome. I just don't feel like that's who she is.

Yeah. And if anything, the myth of, and this idea that the things that they had heard and fables and stories are actually real only bolsters faith in the old way and that deep-rooted history and the warrior way and the mandolour of old. So you're right. Those things can work in concert. Or maybe all this is is just like an amassing of forces on one side to fight whatever it is that Moff Gideon has going on and Thrawn have going on their side. That is my hope that these characters will be aligned against Gideon or Throne or whomever and not against each other because that would be

so tragic. But hey, life is cyclical. And if these characters make the exact same mistakes that they made before, I won't be surprised either. There's a surprise waiting inside of an abandoned Lambda shuttle. And that's where we end this episode. Felt like it would be a stinger. Has a real stinger energy to it, even like the musical beat at the beginning of it. But it comes before the credits. Tava is... It's funny. I saw someone on Twitter refer to this. as the post-credit. They were like, oh, my God, that post-credit singer. And I was like, fuck, was there a post-credit singer that I didn't watch? And I was like, oh, you're talking about literally the episode. Okay. Anyway, yeah. He has found the

Lambda shuttle that was transporting Gideon to the trial, the Chekhov's trial that he never made it to. And lots of dead bodies inside, and Gideon is not among them. But there's something else there. Popping on the probe scan. A little shard. of Besgar armor embedded in the hall right there waiting to be detected. Who put it there? What does it mean? We're glad that you and Lieutenant Reed,

are you saying that Mav Gideon was taken by? Dun, dun, dun, mandolarians? Asked. It's time to head to Theory Corner. Normally he joins us for Allure luck, but we're so excited to theorize about this mystery shard of Beskar Alloy, And he wrote about this at length in his column this week. It is old Ben Limburgie here with us on Theory Corner.

Hello, hello. Isn't this fun? Just good old fashion theory bait. I love it. I also like a mystery that we know is going to be solved soon. This isn't one of those maybe three seasons down the road. No, we'll know in the next three episodes. Who's right or wrong?

So this is Shard talk, right? We're talking Pirate King, Gory and Shard, the whole time. We're talking about a shard of Bessgard that is different from Pirate King Gaurian Shard of Bessar. A last time we saw a ship go down in flames on Navarro, Moth King, he can cut his way out of the Dirkseper. I'm not giving up on Pirate King Gory and Shard and the Shard of Besscar in the same place at the same time. Oh, I love it. Ben, you outlined six primary possibilities for the Baskar.

in your piece this week. You put them in order, least to most likely. We have a few others we're going to hit today as well, but let's run through yours first. Give us the first least likely theory. So first idea is that this was not an escape. It was meant to look like an escape. This was the new republic, not wanting Gideon to stand trial, but wanting to interrogate him or torture him, Right. And so not wanting it to be known that he is in Republic custody, which was actually one of the rumors that was floated by the folks in the reintegration program, right? Someone back in Chapter 19 said he'd escaped on his way to the trial. Someone else said, no, they actually just wanted to mind flay him. So that's one thought. Seems unlikely. I guess we could go through the reasons why each of these might not make sense, right? I'm going no on this one. I also say no on this one. Because why would you? want everybody to think you were, oh, we don't want anyone to think we're capable of torture, but we definitely want them to think our, we're very bad at our job. Worst prisoners can just escape in the middle of space. Yeah. I don't know if this is like hitting

the HoloNet news. Like are people wondering where Moff Gideon is? Like, hey, his trial was just talked about all this long. I mean, a few people intimately involved with the case, but is this like talk radio breaking down where's Moff Gideon? His trial was supposed to start. I don't know if this is big news or not. But you're right. And beyond that, I think also we just kind of need him to escape. Does the Galaxy have scoops the clock? You'd think, right? I mean, he also just has to be free because he has to be back on the show again and the big bat again. So there's that. So we're eliminating now. It's not really an in-universe answer, but practically speaking, yeah. The Republic is not currently mind-faying him. Done. We don't think so. Are mind-flying others? Just not getting it.

Yes. Off the board. Next. Poor Persh. Next, Gideon was taken by Mandalorians. This is not a frame job. It's just some other Mandalorian clan or group that wanted to see him punished instead of standing trial, which many Mandalrians want to see, right? It seems like a lot of them would just like him to be killed. You know, didn't, did you really have to hand him over and deliver him to justice instead of delivering justice yourself? Right. So that's a possibility. We know that Mandalians are are hardly united as a people, and they are often at cross-purposes. It's certainly possible that we've only seen some small subset of the surviving Mandalrians and some others are out there saying,

no, we don't want him to face a jury of his peers or however they do it in the New Republic. We're just going to take care of business ourselves. The problem with that one, there may be a couple of problems, but first of all, I guess there's the overly convenient clue here, right? The fragment the shard of Baskar that has embedded itself at the scene of the crime. You'd think that if you wanted to hide your role in this, that you might have removed the Baskar or that the Bessar wouldn't have fragmented in the first place because it's Besscar, right? Which we can talk about that too. So that just seems a little convenient so that someone would show up and blow him out of there

and then leave something that implicates them so conveniently. Yeah, I am reluctant to think that an actual Mandalorian took him for that very reason. Like, would they leave a giant chunk of their own armor behind? It's like their soul. Not to go all his dark materials here, but it just seems very unlikely. Would you leave your demon behind at the scene of the crime? I will just say, and it's in keeping with our discussion on the pod today, that if there is one Mandalorian dumb enough to leave a chunk of his own armor behind, It is Paz Zla

who was featured in the previously on talking about Gideon saying death would have been justice for his atrocities. He did not want Gideon to go to trial. I don't think, I'm not casting my vote for this theory, but if you know what, it's got to be fast. Do you know how we know that Paz Vizla didn't do this?

He doesn't have a shit. He doesn't even have a shit. That's what I was going to say. Well, maybe this is that we lost it. You know? He doesn't even have enough fuel to rocket to the Raptor nest. Ben, I know you weren't listening to podcasts, they literally like had a long conversation with Mallory about no shit, no, no fuel for their jetpack. How did they get to this planet in the first place?

It doesn't make sense. It just makes no sense. What does that really walk into whatever this planet? Maybe they had chips and the dino turtle ate them. Sure. Could be that? Sure. Let's go with that.

Right. Wanted to keep the easy food source nearby. So that's theory number two. All right. Theory number three, Gideon escaped somehow. Somehow Gideon returned. We don't know exactly what mechanism happened here, but it's a frame job. He just wanted to make it look like Mandalarians were involved because he has it out for

Mandalarians famously. And he wants them to be maybe the enemies of the New Republic too, because he's just not done messing with Mandalorians, scouring the surface of their planet and killing many of them, not enough for him. So he just wants to sow further conflict and throw the scent off. and make his foes, the Mandalarians, the targets of the New Republic. It feels like it has to be a framed job. I'm not sure that this is quite the frame job.

It is, but, like, frame job feels right to me. Can I just, like, rejoice in the fact that Ben Lindberg and I are back in theory corner centered around Giancarlo Esposito, because this is what we did on Better Calls-Sall as well? Yeah, this feels familiar. But can I read this quote that Giancarlo Esposito gave about, and by the way, that is how you pronounce his name. Ben and I learned that the hard way on a Better Call Saul podcast. Yes. A quote that he gave about Moff Gideon's like mindset right now.

He said, Gideon has an agenda all of his own. He's been a warden of a certain part of the galaxy. He wants to bring all the other wardens together for what reason? Why can't he just live in peace in his own little piece of paradise? There's got to be a reason that he's bringing all them together because he must have an agenda of his own. Was he Thanos living in peace? Looking out at a grateful universe collecting fruit for his evening stew. No more guns in the valley.

John Carlin seems to be a little freer with the speculation in interviews than any other cast member. Everyone else is like, I don't know if I can talk about this. John Carl's like, oh yeah, I'm coming back. Oh, yeah, I'm going to be a big part of that season. You haven't seen the last of me. I don't know how he's getting away with this. Anyway. Oh, man.

This is not my number one theory. We'll be getting to that. But I do think this is firmly in the running that this is a frame job, Joe, like you're saying. I mean, if we think back to the season two finale, I mean, of course, let's just, you know, this guy obliterated Mandelor. The Great Purge, they call it the night of a thousand tears, folks.

He can't wait to make Mandalorians miserable. The glee. The jubilation that Moth Gideon sent through that bridge when he saw that another fucking horror had been fallen his old foe, Bo Catan, with the fuck up with the Dark Sabre. Like, he couldn't have been happier

that things had become complicated for Bo and the Mandalorians again. So him just doing this for fun and because it's his central mission in life. For shits and gags? Shits and giggles. Shits and gigs. It wouldn't be.

I wouldn't roll it out. Mom Kinney loves to have a good time, loves to laugh. Agent of chaos. Next theory. Thron. Yeah. I think that's a good one, a juicy one, because A, you have our boy Zeb showing up, which turns our thoughts towards rebels and toward Asoka and toward Thron. And we've seen a character connected closely with Thron back in season two.

the magistrate who Asoka duels, Morgan Ellsbeth, not the most Star Wars name I've ever heard, but she has a Bessgar spear, right? And she's a servant of Thron in some capacity. So we know Thron has some supply of Vesgar. Perhaps he sent some other Bessar user or wearer or wielder to spring Gideon from this custody. And also this seems like sort of a Thron ploy. I don't know if it's too obvious for Thron, but just leaving this derelict ship out there with a clue pointing to someone. Yes. It reeks of Thron. Good old Long Conn Thron.

If there had been a ticket to an art gallery right next to this Escar Shard. Yeah. And I have studied your art and your culture to learn that to be you in war note. I would not have been surprised. I really like the Thron possibility here. Theron feels very strong to me. Yeah. It does.

Yeah, and there's a lot. We don't know about what thrones up to these days and why he would be working with the Empire now or whether he still would or why he would want Gideon free. Are they part of the same proto first order movement? Who knows? We'll find out in a spinoff called Osoka. I would imagine. This is a possibility. All right. Next one, Gideon was taken by another Rebels and Asoka connected character, Sabine, Sabine Ren, who we know is after. Thron is looking for Thron with Asoka in the hopes that they will find Ezra Bridger wherever he is. Again, Zeb being in this episode makes us think rebels' thoughts, although that could have been a misdirect, a red herring. They wanted us to be thinking rebels. I think the problem here, there may be multiple problems with this theory. I like it in the sense that it sets up Asoka, and I wouldn't be shocked to see Sabine. We're clearly getting the ghost gang back together here.

But would Sabine and or Asoka handle things this way? Would they leave no survivors? Would they mow down a bunch of New Republic prison guards? Very unlikely. Seems out of character. Yeah. Also, I'm sorry. I like the idea of Sabine and that crew being connected to Gideon

and these shows entwining even more deeply as a way to get to throw on an Ezra. I refuse to accept that Sabine leaves a chunk of Best Garbo. behind. I just like, okay, accept it. There's just, plus it would be like, she's too smart. Brightly painted. Yeah, exactly.

There's just, I, yeah, I can't. I can't allow it. No. Yeah. So I like some aspects of this, but clearly we're heading towards some sort of subpoena connection at some point, but I don't know, the specifics of this

don't fully check out for me. And then there's the one that I think we like the best, probably, that seems the strongest to me. And there may be some aspects of this that we could get into. But Gideon was freed by Imperials who have secretly been Bessgar mining. They've been camping out on Mandelor, the secret hidden imperial base that is responsible for the cover story about Mandelor being toxic and ruined. What are they trying to hide?

Why are they telling us that the atmosphere is not breathable here? It has to be so that no one will show up and discover the imperial best. And I also like this because the idea of the Besscar alloy, the fragment, the Pyrochengorian shard of Besscar, that says to me that maybe this was not forged by expert hands, perhaps. If we're getting a fragment here, then maybe this was put together by some fly-by-night armor, some not fully certified armor who has not completed the forging course. Or, and so maybe, yeah. Or prisoners. Like we've seen Thron do this on La Thal, right? Yeah.

And sabotage of the materials to try to undermine the imperial presence. Could be. Yeah. So I think I like this because it explains a lot, right? It explains the seemingly fake news about Mandelor and the people just being warned away from this planet for mysterious reasons. Yes. It would potentially explain where that swarm of fighters came from that attacked Bowen out of nowhere, hyperspace incapable fighters, as far as we know.

So they had to have been based somewhere nearby or on a ship or something. So that would explain where they came from. I think it also sets up a climactic battle that we're clearly heading toward, right? Because if there's still some sort of imperial presence on Mandelor, then we know that there could be a big battle there between the combined Mandalorian forces and the Imperials who are still hiding out there. And obviously we know

that the Empire has a Bessar supply. We know that Gideon was pretty rich in Bescar at some point. So we assumed that that was just captured, but perhaps they're still there, mining more. I love this idea that like Gideon, Gideon hates the Mandalorians, but also like is fashioning himself

to be a Mandalorian in a way. If there is a climatic battle between the forces, let's say the forces that Bo has a map, plus Dyn, Mallory's best friend, Paz Vizla and the armor, and then Moth Gideon and his troops.

I love this theory that I've seen a bunch of people float, which is that, like, we'll wind up in a sort of almost Bucky and Steve versus Tony situation where we get a dark saber fight where, like, Dinn loses the saber to Gideon and then Bo wins the saber back from Gideon,

and that's how Bo gets possession of the dark saber. Yeah. That's a very popular. and very alluring sort of theory. Plus, I love the idea of a Steve Bucky, Tony fight, but with the Dark Samer. Gideon walking out.

It's just going to be, oh, sorry, go ahead. In the armor that he has badly cloaked himself in to try to use the tool of his enemy to defeat them. So we've got-Channel Luther, and then Grogu, because it's badly made, Baskar uses the force to just crunch him. Gideon being in shitty Mando armor and then Dinn being a shitty dark saber user and it's really just Bo Ketan who is proficient in anything.

This seems to be the trend of the season. Because they've stressed before that Dyn's armor is pure Bessar. And it's kind of hard to parse whether pure Bescar is also some sort of ally. But it seems like they're differentiating between pure and, you know, it's kind of like 90% Bessar. and 10% cotton or something. I don't know what it is, but maybe that would, yeah, right. Maybe that suggests that they've run out of pure Baskar, or again, they just don't have someone who knows how to wield it.

I mean, I guess Dins Armour came from the captured imperial stockpile, but perhaps. But it was forged by the armor. If they don't have an equivalent of the armor or working it, like, I really like this theory for all the reasons that you mentioned. It does, it just feels like that pursuit of, uh, that pursuit of, uh, of din and bow, the idea of the lie about the poisoned air, all of it. It makes me think of the Duchess, you know, and how the empire couldn't figure out how to, and this was when they were in league with, with Saxon and actual Mandalorians, and they still

couldn't figure out how to properly replicate the machine that Sabine had designed. Like, they don't know how to work this material. And so that just feels, like, I do, I do think It could be possible that they have actual Mandalians there working the armor and the forge for them. But if they're trying to do it on their own, they don't have this reverence for our understanding of the magic and the material. And for it to literally crumble would just be a very poetic. I can't wait. A very poetic thing. I can't wait to meet their shitty armor.

Whoever they've drafted into running the forge doesn't know what the hell they're doing. just dripping molten Besscar all over the place Oh, it's just super clumsy. It's like... I didn't really get the sword to eat that guy. It's like watching someone other than Walter White try to cook on Breaking Bad, right? Exactly.

The purity is just not there. It's all off. The color's all wrong. Yeah. I think we should mention because you just alluded now to the history of Mandalorians working with the Empire siding with the Empire Clan Saxon.

And I have seen some people suggesting maybe it's the Super Commandos, it's a remnants of this force that was allied with the Empire in rebels. This is one of the other theories we wanted to throw out, that he was in fact taken by the Mandalorians, but not for punishment,

but because they want to rescue him and prop him up again. It's possible, but I would have a lot of questions about this because I don't know why any Mandalorians would be working with Gideon or the Empire post purge and not only post-purge,

but post-endor, you know, because Clan Saxon, I mean, clearly no love lost with the Mandalrians, right? They were willing to target them and their Baskar. But also they were doing that because they got something out of it, right? They got control of Mandelor and they got the backing of the empire. And even if they just let it's- But maybe they still have control of Mandelar, secretly. Yeah, but what is there to control other than some dripping- The Bessar minds?

I guess, yeah. that's, yeah, just I don't know what they stand to gain from this. Maybe they're biding their time. Halpy style. Even if they let it slide that they destroyed the entire planet. It's just like, oh, well. I think it looks lovely there now, you know? Sure.

Shiny surfaces. Can I? Yeah, it'd be hard to explain to the audience, I think, at this point. Like, wait, we thought this guy was enemy number one of the Mandalrians and they all want to kill him. And now you're telling us that there's the secret group of Mandalarians that are working for them the whole time. It would be except that they have had a couple lines about the strife and the fractures. But yes.

We got this email from Jay who was talking about the character. Okay. How do you pronounce, is it Axe Wolves? Is that how you pronounce that character's name? It's a wolf without the L. Great question. Okay. And Costco Reeves, obviously.

So, like, these were the two people who are running with Bo, the nine owls, right? And so Jay says, and spoilers for actors giving interviews. So if you want to like skip ahead, but this is public interviews that actors have given. So Simon Cassie 90s, who is, who plays Axe in a Q&A said regarding Axe, there will be answers as to why he was not in the season two finale. And then Katie Sackoff, who was also asked about Axe, says he just wasn't there,

he just wasn't there. And there's a reason. It's just one of those things where I don't know. know if that story is something I'm supposed to tell. So he just wasn't there. John Carlo would have told us for sure. John Carlo definitely would have told us. Someone asked John Carlo.

Jay has an elaborate theory about Muff Gideon secretly being a Mandalorian and that, I mean, maybe, but like also again destroyed the whole planet. So I don't know. But like, where are acts and Costco? Like when Beau says, when they show up and Bose all alone, she's like, oh, my followers just left me. because I didn't have the Dark Sabre. Is it possible that some people, like, is it possible that some people think that Moff Gideon is still the rightful

because he was not killed, that he is still the rightful owner of the Dark Sabre and they would follow him? Or, like, what would Axe and Costco be up to A or B, if somehow Axe and Costco are going to return, are casual viewers going to even remember who they are? Are we going to need a really, like, strong previously on? Not been out here wondering where's X?

Where's this entire time? It's like poochie of the Mandalarians. I'm not wondering where he is. If he returned to his home planet, that's fine. But I've assumed that maybe now that Bo has been designated the walk both ways bridge builder, that she'll go on a little walkabout here and maybe collect some of the scattered Mandalorians, maybe including these. And now that she, if she shows up, I mean, I guess.

guess you can't really ride a mythosaur off of Mandler, but I don't know if Paz could get off this planet somehow, maybe they can too. But I would assume that now that she has some authority or soon will, that she'll just be able to collect all of her fickle followers who have turned to the mercenary life. All the Pokemon back into her pack. I don't know. I don't know if that would explain why he left when he did, though, and that doesn't quite track. But again, I mean, maybe Axe is the shitty armor that we're going to meet over on Mandalor. Who knows? Right.

Yeah. It's hard to imagine that they would go work for Gideon, though, if they were working with Beau all this time. It just seems like a hard pivot there. Yeah. For him to have been part of the team fighting Gideon. Yeah. I mean, I kind of amused by the Gideon is a Mandalorian or was all along, or maybe he was

part of the Super Commandos. And I don't know if that tracks either because we know. Amazing theory. Yeah. We know he was part of the Imperial Security Bureau, according to Kara. If Kara's information is correct, if she's not believing in certain conspiracy theories. But I don't know if the timeline works there for him to have been a Mandalorian all along or someone takes off their helmet and it's Gideon under there. Yeah.

who's sitting in on all the clan meetings. I don't know. That would be wild. That would be so funny. Oh, my God. I would take back every criticism I have of, like, not knowing who these people are under their helmets. If, like, under their helmets is secretly Moth and Axe is going to be really hard for the armorer to convince anyone that they have to keep their helmet on if Mav Gideon was hiding under one all along. Yeah.

Can to officially retire that policy at that point. Yeah. Really. I like the idea that he's. he's like appropriated some aspects of Mandalorian technology and culture, obviously with the Dark Sabre and who knows what else. But actually being one himself, I don't know if I can get up with that. But what does it mean to be a Mandalorian? Is the question we're asking, Ben, man.

Psychedelic music plays. It's a state of mind. It's a people. It's not a place. Okay. We like this imperial conspiracy, toxic air con sort of thing. But, like, if it is Thrawn, are we going, Mal and Ben, I need you to put your stakes down right now. Are we seeing Admiral Thrawn as played by Lars Mickelson or someone else in some form this season of the Middalen.

I think so. I think we will get a glimpse. Finale. I will be officially surprised. In the flesh or hollow? Hmm. Ooh. Ooh.

Because I know you know how your favorite movie solo a Star Wars story? Yes, of course. Hashtag makes solo too happy. Thanks for giving us our opening. We appreciate it. And small and hollow for it, you know. Hollow if only because it gives them more time to get the look right. You don't have to be like as detailed and quite as HD.

The hollows are blue to begin with. So that would make things easier. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Hollow Throne before the end of the season in the finale. I think we're with some. A Thanos stinger, a Thanos stinger sort of thing?

Yeah. We're spending time with Gideon and seven and an eight, and then we get the Thron Stinger at the end of the finale. If I thought, that's fine, but maybe. Or maybe it'll just be a stinger with Kane, and it was G68 all along, and G68 is the one who sprung. Inside job.

Yeah. I'm getting him because Kane has access to all of Intel from Tuddle's fucking open door office. It is semi-suspicious that this ultra-high-value target was just in one shuttle unaccompanied, apparently, as far as we can tell. I mean, you'd think that they might send some escorts. Yeah, I guess that's true. Ben, get your paperwork off my desk. I don't want to look at it.

I've also seen the theory floated that maybe the dark troopers have gotten an upgrade. They've gotten a best-guard finish after Luke made quick work of them. I like that. Okay. But that still, but that still connects ultimately. to the empire has a secret base on mandolour and is using a best-car line to make its own weapons. So yes. Okay.

Anything else? Any other theories? I think we ran through them all. I think we've covered it. Okay. Everyone cast your final vote. I say secret imperial base. Joe?

Yeah. Secret imperial base. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Unless it's pirate nation. Could be. I mean. It could be.

It could be. Would you buy it? Would you buy if they're connected? Will you buy Pirate Nation merch, Ben, if we made it? Okay. Please. For workshop and some ideas. Yeah, we got some ideas for Pirate Nation merch.

I have my Halloween costume already. It's just a bunch of kale on your face. All right, thanks, buddy. Don't hail me again unless it's to surrender. All right, from theories to eggs. It's Easter egg time. Tons in this episode, as you noted, Joe. Give me a couple of your faves.

I'm going to shout on an email we got from a listener, Dawn, who says, nice homage to the scan of Ripley's derelict escapecraft from the beginning of aliens. The astromic scan of the shuttle looked very familiar. I love that. Love that for us. Also, Max Lloyd Jones returning is Lieutenant Reed. I loved that. I was like, hey. That was fun.

I love it for him. I love that he continues to have a career. in the Mando world. So, yeah, it's delightful. Oh, man, we've mentioned so many. He shot first, Subbuk. I really loved Bullock Canyon, we mentioned. I like those odds.

I really loved seeing in the Zeb sequence at Adelphi Base, Dave, Deb and Rick, back at it. Yeah, yeah. Back in the habit. That was really sweet. That was really fun. Yeah, I like that they keep recurring

in these episodes and seasons. That was really fun. So that's my pick. Whigwatch. Will you wear wigs? Okay, so Steve's very key audio here is perfect because, okay, so we know the Bo Catan wig is back in action, looking great, looking wonderful, looking pristine. We're talking about that in a second. Are we about to see Pedro Pascals' hair again soon?

I hope so. Maybe. I would love that. His hair person, by the way, you saw his SNL gig, right? Right? Yep. You know, he did that, like, what he calls the L.A. Mush-Mouth Voice Valley Girl sketch that is based on the woman who does his hair and all of his projects. She goes with him wherever he goes.

Love that. Will we see a wig? Will we wear wigs? Will the armor wear wig? Boy. I mean. What a thrilling question to be able to ask. And then here is one that's going to sink your heart into the floor, Mallory Rubin, which is that our friend and yours, Ryan,

Mary over on screen crush. Love to shout him out. Gave this interesting reveal that there is an action figure of Paz Vizla helmet off Favro. Oh, boy. So are we going to see Favs with his beautiful curls helmet off as Paz Vizla? Listen, that'll help me embrace Paz Vizla more than when he is just a. being a doofus all the time. Last but not at least here in Wigwatch Corner,

I just want to shout out this great email we got from someone who preferred to not be referenced by name. And it's maybe one of my favorite emails we've gotten, okay? This person wrote, I used to work on Dead Mouse's team. Dead Mouse is a DJ, by the way, you want Google image search this, so you can understand this email.

Dead Mouse's team and can confirm that the mouse heads have fans in them to keep Mouse cool while he's performing. The mouse head is larger than the Mando head, but I still imagine they have to have some kind of temperature control in there. I mean, if they have something going on, if they can seal the helmets off and live longer than three to four minutes, you know, they got to have some sort of ventilation system.

And then fun fact, the mouse heads are made by the Heads and Creature Shop, which I didn't know. That is fun to know. Google Dead Mouse, if you don't know what I'm talking about. But, like, I love learning from professionals, high-ranking craft professionals letting me know about ventilation systems. If more people work in the helmet industry and or giant novelty head industry, hobes and dragons at dmell.com.

Thank you so much. Thanks to this listener as well. Let's go to Koo Corner. Netflix subtitle award time. Still the best every time. What do you got? Going for alliteration. Are you ready?

Oh, I love alliteration. Seweed, salad, sizzles. Oh, we have very similar ones yet again. I have briny seaweed skin immolates crisply. Yours is better. I love that we both were with our guy, Pirate King, Gourn, Shard for one final moment. Will we ever mention him again? Probably not.

Yes. But, yes. He lives on here in Koo Corner. All right. I'm sorry. You think it's the last you've heard of Pirate Nation? Pirate Nation, certainly not. tag vein lives, so, you know.

Well, Secret Force user time. Will our streak continue? Of having the same pick, or will we part ways? I'm, like, in real time deciding who I want to pick, so maybe not. I haven't really settled my mind on this. I think I just tipped mine, so. Oh. Is you're still Pirate King Gory and Chart?

Mine's vain. I just think, how does he keep getting out just in the nick of time? Now, he wound up in a tricky pickle. He sounds like he's your guy, Vane. That's what it sounds like to me. He wasn't using the force down on Navarro. Tricky pickle. Outside of the school on Navarro.

Tertic pickle before. Like, sticky wicket. Sure, if you're an anglophile. Tricky pickle. I'm hungry. Yeah, let's wrap this up. It's dinner time. Tricky pickle.

Delicious. I can eat like 50 pickles right now. Just waiting for the man knows to start. saying that to each other when they dig their helmets off, you know? Wow, we're in a real twerky pickle here. Take off your helmet. All right, speaking of take off your helmet, I'm going to go with the armor, actually. Do you really, do you actually believe this?

This is a theory. This is like, people like this. Do I actually believe any of these secret force users? Maybe. But do you believe this? I wouldn't be shocked. She knew a lot about the Jedi. She sure did.

She just known a lot about a lot of people and speaks very persuasively. Secret Force user. These are not the droids you're looking for, but you do want to take off your helmet and go on a Mormon mission for me. All right. We have a structure now. We work in requisitions.

So let's focus on what you require to wrap today's podcast. And it's thank you. It's thank you as always to our Lambda pilots. Steve Allman for producing this episode. Wait a minute. Bad baby. I guess that's a tough one.

Yeah. I don't know. Steve might feel that way after editing. Who knows? He's got a long night ahead. Who could say? Big one, boogel. Who should they be, if not our Lambda pilots?

Our front row and zealins. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yes. Steve, what an honor. Mm-hmm. What a fucking honor. Chearing.

Chearing as you watch the carnage unfold in real time. Thank you, Steve, for producing. this episode. Thank you as well to our Juneram Gopal for his additional production work on this episode. Enjoy me a denaron for his work on the social for this episode. Remember, pop over to the prestige TV podcast to check out our yellow jackets dives every Friday. Go back on Sunday night for Joe's succession episodes on the ring of verse front. Monday, mint edition, Dungeons and Dragons, Wednesday, Midnight Boys, Poo, Poo! Poo! Mando, Chapter 22, and then our Chapter 22 deep dive next Friday. Until then, we know you'll relocate anyway, but you have our word. We will not reveal

your location. Greetings. And welcome into the ringer verse. Oh, boy. Oh, no. Troubling sign. We're 10 seconds in. We've already lost it. Back around. Adley, Rutchman, five hits, opening day. All right. Greetings and welcome into the ringerverse here on the... Oh, no. Guys, Thursdays are great. It's the new recording time. We don't even have Fridays to blame.

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