The Ringer-Verse - The ‘Mandalorian’ Season 3 Finale Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

Charles, Van, and Jomi dive into the ‘Mandalorian’ season finale in a way that only they can. Along the way, the guys discuss Jomi’s love for the Darksaber, Van tells a story about seeing the original animated ‘Transformers’ movie, and they react to rumors of Adam Driver playing Mr. Fantastic. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, and Jomi Adeniran Social: Jomi Adeniran Producer: Jonathan Kermah Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal and Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili, and hosts of What About Your Friends, a podcast dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed, I talk to my best friend Stephen Othello and your favorites from within the ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS back in the day, what about your friends? For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiatoradio.com. This episode is brought to by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things. fandom, we are Jomi, the explainer at dinner on, he's got questions, he's got

answers, we are. Jonathan little spidey Kerma. Rap shooter. He of the big adventure. We are. Old Manvan, he of the receding resurgent hairline, the Manjaro King.

We are, Coke, baby Chuck, the 24-carat clothes are, he of the big brain, and together we are known as of the midnight boys Now let me tell you guys Steve isn't here today

Steve is trying to make extra money because Fox News has been forced to pay almost $800 billion dollars to Dominion voting services Steve is determined to help Fox

pay off this debt which he says is an affront to democracy Steve says that he Oh, right, get to the show, man. I'm not letting you do my man's ski. That's what he told me. That's what he told me. Last night, he hit me like,

damn, what the, I'm like, what he's like, did you see what they did to Foxman? Hashtag free Tucker. And so he left to go make some bread. He's signed spinning and doing other things for Fox News right now. All right, you have to follow us on socials. Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok,

save Jomi's job. Steve is on vacation, guys. It's just a joke. We love him. we miss him. Um, Pro. Uh-huh.

Our mando coverage is mercifully coming to an inn. Um, this Friday, the House of R will give their deep dive for the Mandalorian

season three finale. Uh, next Wednesday. Um, we come back. Midnight Court. Uh. Van and Charles,

myself and Chuck Wagg are going to debate whether or not Avengers Infinity War or Avengers Endgame is the superior film. Infinity War versus Endgame. Now, before we get off of this, it's me against Charles, but the men boys, like, what are we, like, are you guys, or are there teams here? Like, what's happening here? I mean, I'm firmly, I'm not, I mean, don't even think that not only do I think

Infinity War is better than endgame. I think Infinity War is the best movie they've ever made. Ooh, speak on it, Joe. Yeah, that's fine. Look, you guys can have your... I'm pretty sure Steve thinks Infinity War is better. I think you're on an island. So let me tell you why you guys think Infinity War is better.

Because it's the better film? That's how you guys feel. That's how you guys feel. I get it. There's every once in a while, there are these sort of fanboy cultish opinions, these like fan boy contrarian things. Contrarying

Fanboy things And it's like Infinity War is much better than Ingame It's more entertaining But I'm talking about What's the better movie And we're gonna have a good time

Talking about Oh Infinity War is easily the better movie This is what I don't understand It's not better But you know what Here's the thing I don't think it is And I

If I'm skiing uphill That's fine I got some good skis baby More fans agree with you then I don't think that's true I think most of our audience Are probably gonna agree with you and this is what people do before

because they try to like, we try to say, hey, it's what people do. We're like, no, you have the fans. No, you have the fans. I'm the underdog, man. I'm the underdog. No, you're underdog. No, you're on. Okay, whatever. Today show, we begin with our reactions to the season finale of Mando's season 3.

Yeah. Spoiler warning here. We're going to spoil everything Star Wars. Spoiler warning. I thought you wanted to be Spoiler warning, my boy. Let's just play. Let this play.

I heard spoiler warning. I jumped. I was... Leave this in. I was ready. Kern, man. What's going on, bro? Hey, listen.

Okay. Curm, I got you. It's okay, man. It's been a minute. You know what I'm saying? Leave that in. You know, hey, look. We love you, Steve.

All right. This is for joking around. Curbs of fucking fantastic producer. All right. To begin our reactions, because you guys have already got your spoiler warning. We're spoiling everything Star Wars. We once again need to bring you the Midnight Manifest.

That is Charles putting you in the need to know, or excuse me, in the know about the season finale of Mando. Charles, let everybody know what they have to know. All right. And this is your Midnight Manifest for the Mandalorian. season three finale, Chapter 21 in the return, directed by Rick Famuilla, written by Sean Bevereau.

Din escapes from Gideon's troopers with help of Grogu. The duo go on the hunt for Gideon and end up finding and destroying the stash of four sensitive clones. When Gideon arrives, Din puts up a good fight, but is no match for his guard trooper suit, and is quickly overtaken by the Vittorian Guard. Grogu saves Dinn, but is hunted by the guardsman, leaving Dinn to fend for himself. Meanwhile, Beau leads the rest of the Mandalions to the surface to regroup, as Axwell warns the rest of the group of Gideon's attack.

The Mandalorian's rally to take down Gideon's base while Axe maneuvers the wreckage of their ship to destroy, said Bakes. Bo and the Dark Saber come in for the assist, allowing Dinn to help Grogu. Didn and Grogu make quick work of the Praetorian guards? Gideon destroys the Darksaber, but along with Dan and Grogou, Bo overpowers Gideon. As the base explodes, Grogui protects Dean and Boe using the force as Gideon burns for crisp. After the battle, Mandilur is finally united and Dinn officially adopts Grogu so we can become a true The Mandalorian apprentice, and the armor sends the two off so Grobu can start facing the challenges that he will need to become a true Mandalorian.

Din visits Captain Carcetava and the two make a deal that it'll be an unofficial bounty hunter for the new republic. And then on Navarro, brief Karga gives Din a plot of land and home for him and Grohu stay between missions. And that has been your midnight manifest for this season of the Mandalorian. Chuck, to you, did the season finale stick the landing? Fuck this episode. Just kidding. I love this episode of TV. I'm not going to lie.

This hour of TV is really good. Yeah, I think it definitely stuck the landing. I don't know if it stuck the landing in terms of like the entire season, making the entire season better. But this hour of TV was entertaining and it reminded me why I love Mando and Grogu so much, which I think it desperately needed to do. So I think it definitely stuck the landing in terms of season finale. What about you then? So I think it was a good episode of television, but as a season finale, not sufficient to me. So it was really fun to watch and it was a really cool episode of television, right?

But as a season finale, it just, to me, didn't accomplish very much. And let me tell you what I mean. I personally was not over-invested into any of the theories that were coming out. I have learned my lesson on that. seriously, I've learned my lesson on that. Man, the armor is a spy. Axe wolves is a spy. Y'all motherfuckers out there.

Y'all Russ versus fucking the sons. Three of 19. Hey, we had a lot of hustle plays, though. A lot of defense. They won the game. That's the only difference. Boca tan was going to die. Dan was going to die.

Man. Most fuckers are saying everything. Actually, y'all not Russ. Because. Russ was able to, like, help his team win. Y'all actually, what's that, does that Tony Snell? The zero zero zero zero. Your life?

Like, all y'all out there, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, with more than 28 minutes played, with hours of play. Now, we're really dealing with Brooks. We're just shooting up tour dates out here, bro. Just shooting it, shooting it. But, okay, so I wasn't really invested in any of those. But what I'll say about the season finale is it's essentially a retrand. of the season two finale, right?

It's, it's Moth Gideon against the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

found family. And that time, it was, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

Bokatan, and the, the, the night owls, uh, and his other found family in that situation against Moth Gideon. It's the same thing.

It's, it, Moth Gideon had, he was able to sort of become a new threat, right? He had different technology. He had had a different suit. He had upgraded Mandalorian soldiers. But it's kind of the same thing that you get to at the end. There wasn't a freshness to it.

There wasn't a newness to it. It didn't seem to be that there was a different narrative feeling. that it got to. And for a season that was supposed to push the Mando and his story forward or so we thought, maybe that's my fault that I thought that,

it kind of seemed like more of the same. We get, at the end of this season, we come back to kind of how we were like before. They are officially father and son, but as far as anything else, it didn't really break any new ground

or tie up any stories in any way that I thought were meaningful. You know, Bocatan story maybe, but I just did, I felt like, it's kind of the same thing. Can I ask you a question, Van, real quick? Sure. Did you expect the season finale to do that? And what I mean is, like, the reason why I think I probably like the season finale more is because I already thought that this season was a lot. I didn't actually think that there was, like, a season finale that would be something

that other than a retried, I kind of was expecting. that they're just going to kind of like mess up the toys and then put them all back in the toy box. And so I was not, I know that sounds really, really harsh, but I was not actually expecting that much from the season finale.

Well, look, once again, I was entertained by this episode of television and I thought it was fun. And I thought there were some real awesome Star Wars wonderment, cool, emotional moments in this episode for sure. A lot of action. Super cool.

mid-air fighting. We're going to get into all of that stuff. I'm not down on the episode as an episode. I'm down on the episode as a fundamental piece of the Mandalorian in terms of its storyline and everything else. I think we got Moth Gideon in the last couple of episodes of this season just to have, just so they would have a way to end the season. Yeah.

It doesn't really seem. as if there was any cohesion. It's kind of a microcosm for the entire season itself, right? It's the fact that there were things to watch and to enjoy and to have fun, but it didn't seem like there was any cohesion here. Like there didn't seem to be a real actual story that was being told here. It seems like just Star Wars stuff happening is kind of what we got. Jon me, we haven't come over to you yet.

What are your thoughts? Yeah, no, I mean, as, as, An episode of television, episode of Star Wars, as an episode of the Manalorea. I thought this was a really, really fun, enjoyable episode. Like you said, so much cool things. Like, the mid-air fight was incredible. I thought that the fight, like, just the beginning with Dan escaping from the,

you know, Clan Saxon looking Manaloreans was cool. Like, a lot of stuff we saw was, like, really fun, really awesome. And like, oh, man, like, I'm tapped in. Let's get it. But when you look at this episode as a whole, as a, as a, as a, It's part of the whole season, you're kind of like, man, I'm kind of, you know, would kind of leave something to be desired, you know, and so we'll talk about it later. But, I mean, as this episode specifically, I thought it worked, I thought it worked as a season finale.

Okay, okay. So you're saying that the fact that you were kind of off of the Mandalorian bandwagon here worked, did this episode rope you back into having a sort of a different opinion of season three? Oh no, I think, I think it's done. I think season three is called. Like, it's just like, I, how do I put this? I was like a basketball fan who was just like, knows that the season is over. So you still got tickets and you're just like, I'm just going to show up because like I just want like a fun night. I did not expect this season finale to fix any of the big problems. And to your point, I agree with you, then. Why was Moff getting

to hear. Like, we're three seasons in, and I still don't understand Moth Gideon's motivations. Like, I don't really understand why he does anything he does. He just hates the Mandalorians. Like, we had, like, after three seasons, is Moth Gideon that compelling of a villain? Because to me, he's not. Well, so, it's interesting, right? There were assumptions that were made about Mav Gideon that he was an emissary for Thron. There were assumptions that were made about Mof Gideon that he in some way was important or vital

into resurrecting imperial strength in the galaxy and that he would be one of the main building blocks for the reformation, or excuse me, the formation, should I say of the first order. It seems as if what Mof Gideon's plan was, of course, was to clone himself into a force sensitive slash Mandalorian

slash stormtroopery group of people and then go out there and fuck shit up which is you know if you think about a whole army of force sensitive clones

that's pretty formidable right that's pretty capable that's a big deal still don't know what he was going to do with them though if he was going to, if the plan was just to retake Mandelor, if the plan was to retake the galaxy for the empire, if he was acting to be the leader of the shadow council

and to strike, kind of doesn't, he just seems like a kind of an outlier guy to stop from getting to his end, whatever that end is. And that makes it a little, That brings the stakes down a little bit because it's almost as if, you know, Mandelor is just the place that he has decided to put his base, right? He's obsessed with Mandalorian culture because they're incredible warriors and they have this, this culture of fighting and being dope that goes back thousands of years.

But we don't ever really learn why, you know. Yeah, no character motivation. We don't understand what is the thing that makes him tick. What is the thing, whether he was a kid or a teenager or an adult, why does he deep down hate the Mandalorian so much? Why is he pro-empirate or why is he trying to bring them back? It's just like, he's just kind of there. Yeah, he's pro-empower because I would assume that he's pro-emperor

because he's got the imperial indoctrination into his mind. He never really sort of, he never really demonstrates intense loyalty to Palpatine. He never talks about how the galaxy was under the empire. Even Palpatine himself would discuss order and what he felt like order meant to the galaxy and why he felt like order was the elixir to all of the galaxy's problems. and whatever stood in the way of order and power was to him standing in the way

of the functionality of the goutes. Now, that might have been a justification for all the shit that he had to do, but you understood it. Gideon just seems like a troublemaker, like somebody that's out for where he was out for, more on the lines of a Marvel villain in some way than like a Star Wars villain.

And I'm not talking about an MCU villain. I'm talking about a comic book villain. A comic book villain that just pops into an issue for an issue to give that character somebody to fight. And then the next issue, that character is gone somewhere else. If you read comics, you see it all the time. Oh, shit. Bullseye in this episode, Daredevil is going to fight one of his old allies, the green garbage man from Hell's Kitchen.

And you get that, you know what I mean? And you get that guy for a little while and he might pop back up. but when Daredevil needs to fight somebody, you get someone like that. And I thought that there would be a little bit more to it than that. And not only that I thought that there would be, because I'm not talking about my expectations, I'm talking about, let me put it this way,

there would have had to have been more to it than that to make it kind of almost worth everything. They would have had to have been more to it than that. The fact that there wasn't, to me, I actually feel like works against the quality of the episode. and the quality of the season in a way. So if I can just defend one thing, like if I could just be a little positive,

I agree with everything you're saying, Dave. You're not wrong. The reason I think I like this episode just in a vacuum, not as like, we could talk about this season later, is that this was one of the first episodes where I'm like, okay,

Din and Grogo have something to do. Like, Din and Grogo are growing. Like, we get to see Din be a badass. We get to see the version of the character that we saw in the first two seasons. We get to see Grogu finally being an active participant in the action, saving his father,

being so, so important, and not just a prop. And that was, I guess that was the thing that not only I loved about this episode, but the thing that made me be like, damn, we could have gotten this for an entire season. Like, I would have loved to see

Grogu being active for an entire season. I would have loved to see Dan kicking ass in every other episode besides the season finale. Is that fair? Yeah. No, it's totally fair. That's 100% fair.

I think on the Moth Gideon front, and this is, this was my big problem, like sitting back after the episode, thinking about the entire season, we don't, like, we sat there every week going, all right, man,

where's the conflict? It's going to be between Den and Bo because those only characters we see each week. And if they had threaded Moth in, like, more blatantly, throughout the season. Like we got the, we got the Imperial Warlords

blowing up Bo Cotan's palace. We got that episode with the spy and like, you know, blowing up Dr. Pershing's brain and whatnot. And then we got the end where Carson goes,

and it's like, they broke out Moth. You know, we're like, now we're, like, that was like the moment we're like, all right,

now we're starting to get somewhere. If they had like been way more blatant about like maybe we see Mof like Planet Summit in episode two, then we know all right, we're getting, we know conflict is coming throughout the season. I think it plays a lot better than we sat here for six weeks going, man, who's the bad guy? And then the beginning of 2007, I'm like, okay, well, we're going to just, you know, run back Moth Gideon again.

I think it plays much better if they're very more specific on who the bad guy is. Because again, for like six weeks, we're going, where's the conflict? Everybody seems like they're getting along, which is cool. when you're watching the story and when you're watching the Star Wars, you're like, all right, where's the,

where's the beef, you know? Like, it just fell flat, honestly. Oh, then I was going to ask you, Jomey,

do you potentially, and you, Ben, do you potentially think that Asoka might have kneecap, like handicapped, this season of Mandalorian?

And what I mean by that is, there's going to be some type of Thrawn in Asoka, no matter how much we know. I think, Asoka is going to have a lot happening in terms of like moving the plot forward, do you think potentially

Mandalorian season 3 suffered from the fact of like, if there was no Asoka, we probably would have gotten thrown in this. We probably would have gotten at least more stakes, more action, more pushing the larger Star Wars plot forward. But because there is Asoka coming, it's like, do you want to blow your load essentially on Mando season 3?

Would you need Asoka Season 1 to work? So my first, like, this is, was after episode six when, you know, the whole darksaber thing happened. And I was like, and I could not, like, I could not process why that would happen. Like, it took me forever. And I was just like, you know what, man?

Maybe Dave Falunian was too busy working on Asoka to tap in to Mando. And like, I'm serious. Like, I'm so serious. Like, you know, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say Dave Follone is perfect, but throughout clone wars, throughout rebels, like, you know, it's so, there's like a tightness.

and a directiveness that, like, regardless of what, you know, you think of the content, you can follow it and you understand the rules and why these things are happening that I felt was missing from this season of Madalurian. And then I was like, oh, man, that's, you know, that's Dave Faloni. Dave Faluny is, like, the Star Wars gatekeeper. Like, he knows this, he knows this world better than anybody outside of George Lucas, probably, right? And so for them to be this lost this season, I'm like, Asoka's going to be great, man. Dave Flan, he's so locked in, Anosoka.

Like, he putting his whole thing into that thing. And, you know, Con left the Mandalorian to John Favro, and so we got, which, you know, sorry, but, you know, could have been better. This episode is brought to you by Borris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep-fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it.

Presenting the Friars turkey breast only from Borershead. Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite, Boershead, committed to craft since 1905. All right. So I'm going to ask one more question regarding the, regarding Moffieldian.

While on Mandelor. So, okay, so this is like his entire history is, like he was based on Manilur. he was like, hey man, these manloins, I ain't really playing with the empire like this. Let's blow them up. And so he did that. Like the great perj of Mandalor was Mof Gideon, right? And then realizing that he wanted to do his own thing, he, like, you try to get baby girl

groove so he could clone himself and do the whole dead, I think. But he's very much into mandolin culture because that's where he was based. That's where he, you know, was there for the empire. So that's like his thing like, you know, faux-Manalorian, basically. So here's the thing then. So you're telling me that he could have, his entire plan could have worked

if he would have based all of it on like, say, jaku, and he just chose to fuck with the best fighters in the galaxy for like no reason. So if he were a Mandalorian, and I'm not saying that he would have had to have been a Mandalorian, if he were a Mandalorian or if he needed access to Biskar ore, which we never talked about, which was never talked about, right? It was never talked about the fact that he had even started to forge.

They started to forge at the end, right? It was never talked about whether or not he was there mining Bescar. We never discussed why he had to then centralize his situation back. So he just wants to kill them to finish the job, which to me, if you want to build a clone army of yourself, and you want to actually accomplish that goal, once again, it's comic book villain stuff. Seriously, to have him go there

and be up and fighting with them when there were definitely, he built a whole base on Mandelor, right? Yeah. Like in secret, a whole base there. There are definitely other places in the galaxy where he could have run his entire fucking plan, right? and not gone up against the children of the watch,

not gone up against the night owls. They happened to be there. They met him because they went back to their homeworld and he was there. So to me, they never even run into Moth Gideon if they don't go back to Mandelor. That's true. I think, I mean, part of it,

I mean, his armor is like a best car all-allel. I think it was like, we need all this best car. I mean, all the, I don't, I think all the, you know, again, like, I call him Clan Saxon, because they got the imperial Saxon-looking joints from rebels. But they also had, like, Best-Gore Alloie armor. So I think part of it was like, if we're going to do the whole man-loat anything, you got to get the Bessar. The only place to get Bessar in the world is right here on Mandelor. So that kept him local, you know, versus. So he built, so he built an entire base there to get the Bessar.

I get it. To me, if I'm off Gideon, I'm like, you know what? By the time I face off against all of the Mandalians that are left, which seems like it could be a thing if I stay on Mandelor, what I'll do is I'll get the fucking Besscar. And just like in secret, we built a whole fucking base on this, that's the same way that we could get it and go do our thing, someone else.

And then by the time I run up against people, I've got hundreds or thousands of cloned soldiers who can fucking use the force. And now nobody can fuck with me. You know what I'm saying? So he wants to complete the purge of Mandalore. It's like even that, though, that to me was to cripple the Mandalorian people who were uncontrollable by the empire for certain reasons to get them out of the way. So the empire doesn't have to worry about them because what was happening on Mandalore was always a thorn in the empire's side. You had Sotene who was a pacifist and wanted to stay out of everything.

And then you had other factions that were trying, but you never knew which way they were. they were going to go. So it's like, fuck over them all. But at this point, they're powerless. So if you want to do your thing, do you want to go back there

and have to worry about what's going to happen when you run into them and whether or not you're going to be able to beat them when you haven't even accomplished your goal yet? So, like,

just for that to be the end thing, just he has some sort of obsession with their culture. It's just, I don't know, man. I mean, going off what you're saying, though,

about a lot of shit, not making sense. I was talking to my brother about this last week. We're introduced to these new stormtroopers who have this Baskar alloy and it's like, oh, shit, like they're supposed to be badass. How are all of these like mini little, uh, mandoruan is supposed to go against them? And in this, it's just like they dispatch of them like any other storm trooper. Like, I, I guess that's my issue with this season where I'm like, you introduce a threat and you're just like, this is going to be so hard to defeat. And then it's just like an episode later, they're like, all right, they're defeated.

Mandelor is saved again. I just, that stuff doesn't make sense to me. Same thing with him having all of his clones in one space. Like, he's like, oh, you destroyed all my clones.

I'm like, hey, man, why wouldn't you have like backup clones on another planet that, like, is not like a big threat? This seems like just a dumb thing

for someone who's supposed to be very smart to do. Maybe he does. We don't, maybe. He might still have more, but look, season four, maybe.

Yeah, but he's dead now. I assume he's dead now. He's not dead. I mean, Darth Vader's survive worse. Here's a deal. Here's a deal.

When a show or a movie wants a villain to die, they show their death. And even that, even then, somehow they still return. Now, then, to your point, was a little bit more dinish

in this episode. We saw him fucking up. Dog. Dog. Like, fucking up. With a knife, bro. No, let's get to the stuff that we liked.

Like, let's get to the stuff that we liked. Because there's a lot to like in this episode, okay? And let's get to the stuff that we like. And namely, Den and Grogo. Batman and Robin. You know what I'm saying? Motherfucking, the Greenhorn and Cato, just taking motherfuckers out.

I dug the shit out of it. Then it comes to, and then I'm like, oh, these guys are, these motherfuckers cook. Yeah. It's done. It's over for you. Boy! boy don't step on people's chest and you won't get suspended it's over oh you were you were saying

truce no but this episode like what was funny about it what makes it make the other part of the season not makes sense is like joe dinn gets fucking busy all he needs is a knife and some time and like you're out of here which is just like if we go back all the way to the beginning of the season when he like loses the dark saber to bocatan l-o-l i'm just like why was why couldn't he fight the spider thing then. Like, this is such a capable motherfucker. But for the entire season,

they were acting like he wasn't. And that was also what was weird. I was like, this is the din I remember from the season two finale. He can get busy.

Why? Where was this din the entire season? Can I, can I offer something here? Yes. I actually thought about this. The Dark Sabre

was holding them back. Okay. I need an explanation. Yeah, please. Let us know. So in these fights, even in the fight in the Boba Fett episode, which is an episode of the Boba Fett show, so when you grade the Boba Fett show,

you have to grade that as part of the show. Anyway, even in the episode of the Boba Fett show, Dinn is in there doing his thing. He's trying to use the Dark Sabre. I remember he wounds himself. Yeah. Like he wounds himself trying to use it. When he gets to Mandelor,

he's fighting against these guys and he's not using the knife like we see and being den. He's still trying to come to terms with wielding the Dark Saber. And it makes it a little dicey. It makes it a little dicey. He can't use it.

The Dark Saber, for whatever reason that Den is trying to access the weapon and wield it in a competent way, it's actually stopping him from being him because that's not. Not him.

That is for her. She knows how to use it. She knows, I guess, she knows how to use it. She knows how to get busy with it. Could it confuse me this episode. We'll get there. She knows how to use it. It's her thing.

That's for her. And so to me, part of Den getting back to being Den was giving up the blade, which I know that a lot of people didn't like. In the fights that he had down there, even with the, he's trying to use the dark. saber to fight and he's just not good with it. So we see him getting back to doing what he does,

which is this rush down brutal tactical, but at the same time I'm just an indestructible force type of fighting and that's the insurance. So then can I ask why give him the dark saber in the first place? Like nothing

would change about the story if he never gets the dark saber. Like he didn't learn anything about himself except I guess weekly I guess I wasn't built for the Dark Saber which I'm like at that point why not just give it to Bo at the end of the season two finale

Isn't it obvious that these niggins didn't know what they wanted to do that's what it is no but that's what it is that's clear well what I mean why you know the answer isn't it obviously

they didn't know what they want to do like you know what I'm saying like we're looking around we thought Grogo was going to have the Dark Saber before you know me And it obviously didn't know what they wanted to do. So,

so I'm really... But then Beau gets fucked up and it gets destroyed. And I'm like, what was this all for then? What was this all for? It's tough. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's not what you want. It's not what you want. So what was the most impressive thing that happened?

Was it, he beating up the troopers by himself, Den versus Gideon, or the fact that him and his baby's, son, dispatched of three Praetorian guards who are supposed to be the baddest of the badasses. I'll say this. Dinn and Grogu taking out all those Praetorian guards by themselves kind of nerves

Kylo and Ray so much because they were struggling and these two are like some of the most powerful force users in the galaxy and we got one force user who's still a baby and a motherfucker who doesn't even have a weapon. So I'm just like either this was like the JV squad of the Praetorian guards or maybe like Ray and Kylo really ain't felt like that. No, I mean, I think this is like, you know, version one. You know what I mean?

Like it's always not the first pancake is always not the, it's always the bad one. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like, I feel like maybe later, maybe the guys they saw in The Last Jedi probably put up a better fight. But it doesn't discount what Din and Grogo did. That was special. They got busy. First of all, that was special. I still have all the respect in the world for the Praetorian Guards,

but let me tell you something about them real quick. Okay? They are one of those teams that's good against the bottom three seeds in the West. Now, cook. They're one of those teams that's good against the bottom three seeds in the West. But whenever they play somebody with a good record, it's like, hey, hey, look at this team. They're great. They struggle against the great teams.

Because, like, pass Vizzler? Nah, man. Well, okay, so this is easy. They got rid of Pass Vizler easy. That's a home game against the Spurs. You know what I'm saying? That's a home game against the Spurs. I'm sorry if y'all don't watch basketball,

but the Spurs weren't very good this year. But when they ran up against Den and Grohl, Pac Watch, and when they ran up against, it was even more of them in the throne room. Yeah. It was like eight or nine of them in the throne room. Ray had had the lightsaber for a month and a half. You know what I'm saying?

And they got them out of there. Ray didn't even twirl the lightsaber. Ray couldn't even twirl the lightsaber. You know how you do a cool twirl with that bitch? Crazy. Ray couldn't twirl that bitch. She throwing that motherfucker. They stabbing him.

Nigger, she threw the lightsaber. The Praetorian Guard is like, I wonder what's happening. Like, you know what I'm saying? You got called ball watching. Yeah, he was watching the ball. I wonder what's happening. I wonder, why would she throw her weapon? He's like, huh, that's interesting.

She threw her weapon. So he could catch it. You know what I'm saying? and stab you in the face anyway. So look, the fight with Den and Grogu and a Pretorian guard was cool, though. It showed them working together in combat and set a standard for how they might work together in combat in the future. Yeah.

It was really good. I mean, you know, I'm a Paz-Visla hater, I mean, Visla clan, that's number two on my hate list. But he didn't have Grogu out here saying screens for him, you know what I mean? It's facts. Like, you know, I feel like he, the preternigard did go out to blasters, which is tough because Pass Vizzler had a whole like, you know, machine gun, Madato's arm. But at the same time, Grogwick was out there being like the best two men you can have, like just literally like pushing them back, removing their weapons, making it really easy for

DIN to kill those dudes. But that was, that was so cool seeing them work together like that. So then can I ask this then? do we think that Grogu is growing with the force or is he just remembering all of the training he had during like the Clone Wars era? Because if we think about it, he might grow up to be one of the baddest motherfuckers

because he's like one of the only people out there who was trained at the height of combat. He was also with Skywalker for a couple of years, right? Yeah. And he has the Skywalker. Yeah. So I think that what we probably saw, was the result of Grogu being able to, we've seen him be able to access his memories from Order 66 and from the pre-clone wars era of his Jedi training, but then also a small degree of being able to refine that by, by, you know, by his time of Skywalker, because even in the way that he was flipping around, right? And we see him at the end, pick up frogs and all of that stuff, right?

These are things that he was doing when he was with Luke. So he's probably, he's growing stronger. He's going to be able to use his powers better. And we saw the level that he's at right now. Yeah, he's absolutely getting better because remember in the earlier seasons, he would use the force for like eight seconds and like pass out. Be tired. Yeah, he'd be tired.

And in this season, or this episode, he was locked in. Man, was using the force of the time. And then at the end, when he protects them from the fire, but he was like, sit down. He wasn't like, he didn't like, whimper. out or like knock out. He was just like, ooh, all right, we did it. Like, good job, guys. So he's definitely picking up speed.

Like, he's definitely getting to a place where you can be like, oh, man, he's really getting it on with the force now. Just let you guys know. Goghurtain and Dan and himself from the fire a legitimately, guys, amazing, emotional, fantastic Star Wars moment. Oh, great. So what I'm saying to people right now is that it is not that there weren't amazing things in this episode to enjoy. There were. The criticism that I have

from the episode comes with, to me, the way I judge it as a season finale. Because I'm looking at that and I am in. It is fun. Watching them light the forge was amazing. A lot of that stuff is very fun to look and to be a part of, right? But as a season finale, you expect a little bit more and it did not meet the measure there. So then, then, then, I have to ask you, because you've been, you've been on me and Jome the whole season and Steve a little bit. Was this your expectations? Well, no, I think there's, well, I mean, look, maybe, but I don't think so.

I think there's an expectation of a season finale, right? Not from, not an expectation that, not an expectation of any storylines being fulfilled or an expectation of certain things happening the way that I wanted them to, I think that I have a general expectation or a general feeling about what a season finale of a show should be. And I feel like the season finale of a show, it doesn't even have to be rich with spectacle,

but it does have to give you certain identifiers and tell you certain things about the season of television that you watch. And I can't think of a good season finale that's ever not done that. So I agree with you. But I think the thing that was wonky about this season finale is that I liked where they ended up. They ended up where I think a lot of us have been complaining they should have been all along, which is essentially, hey, it's the Grogu and Dins show again.

Like he's going to be a bounty hunter again. They're going to have adventures. But that is a, like, when I saw that, I'm like, this is a weird place to end. season three of a show, especially when like Luke motherfucking Skywalker, however you feel about that in retrospect came back

in season two, ending season three being like, hey guys, yeah, Mandel War is back and we're just back to doing old didn't grow go shit. I was just like, I'm excited for that,

but that did not feel like a season finale. That more so felt like a season opener. Well, yeah. So perhaps. I agree. I do. So we know what's going on here. We all know.

Everybody that's on this podcast right now knows what's going on. We know that the Mandalorian at one point was a television show. And then the Mandalorian became an advertisement for toys. That's just what happened, right? and when you're advertising toys, it's probably best to have the toy that you're advertising

actually in the show, which is Grogu to a degree the Dark Saber, which sales of the actual Dark Sabre are through the roof now because of what's going on. So I'm interested in hearing what they think this season was because there was obviously no direction, right? Like, they were forced to bring Grogu back on the show. This season would have been an incredible,

incredibly different, should I say, if we see Grogu in this episode and he hasn't been around. And for some reason, he feels that Dan is in trouble and now Grogu can come back and he can use the force and there's been no Grogu this entire time. It's a different show and probably the story that they wanted to tell. I mean, for me, Charles is right.

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Let's pull back a little bit here. Talk about Grogu himself. Den Grogul is his name. He has a name. I don't know how that works.

I thought... I thought... I thought, like, Den Jorin. You know, I thought Jarn was his last name. But apparently it's Den Grogu, but then, like, Bogotan is Bogotan is. Okotan Crees, and she's Clan Crees. So I don't, I don't, I'm confused of how

Mandalorian names work. Well, it's two different factions of Mandalorians there. So the, the way people, right? But they, they call, uh, Ragnar, his name is, it's not like he's part of the way, right? He's Clan Vizla. Pass Vizla. So Paz Vizsla, so then his name would be, well, well, so Dyn's name,

well, maybe, hold on, so Paz Vizelah's last name is Visla. Yes. So, but it's different, right? I mean, I don't know. The armor, she ain't got no name. You know what I'm saying? Like, Din Gurgu was interesting. I thought it would be like Grogu Jarn.

Maybe, though. Did Dind Jarn know his name when he was taken from his family? Did he know his name? How old was then Jarn? He had to. He was old enough to know his name. So in that case, maybe he's from a culture where they do it backwards.

You know what I mean? I don't know. I guess. Could be. I was just confused. I thought, yeah, I thought for sure it would be Grogu-Goo-Jarn. So once you said, you're at Den Grogogh. I was like, oh, that's not confusing at all.

Grogu-Jarn. Grogu-Jarn is kind of hard, bro. I ain't a lot. Yeah, come on. That's better. I wonder why I was Ding-Grogoo. Charles, you're going to say? Oh, I do want to just say real quick.

I found it very funny that they were just like, he's like, I officially adopt him now. And I'm like, I'm his dad now. I'm like, motherfucker you've been his dad. No, he's only big, no, no, no, no. It was like heartwarming, but I was just like, wait, what? He was, you know, I mean, for a long time he was a babysitter. It wasn't until, it was really not until this season where he started treating him like, that's my boy, that's my son, that's, you know.

And so for like, that it officially to take hold for everybody, you know, to have that moment where he's not, I'm just like, he's actually my son. Like he's, I am adopting him, here the papers, you know, I'm no longer just a babysitter. I'm the father who stepped up. Like, that's like official. That was like a moment. I think that was really needed. And I, like, I really loved that.

I really did. Loved it. Oh, I loved the moment. I just thought it was a little like, you've been the dad. Like, uh, your name was on the papers for a while now. So when Grogo is training, right? And it, you know, Grogu can't speak to speak to creed because he's a filing, right? It doesn't occur to you to do that then?

I mean, what changed? Are you telling me that maybe Den feels closer to Grogu now because Grogu saved his life? So is Den like, was then unsure that he wanted to do that? Like, what was the, when he did it, right? It's like Grogu should take the creak. Because the other, they were, what was Pass Vizal's kid doing right there? Or was that a different kid?

No, that was right. He didn't get to finish the first time. Oh, he didn't get to finish the first time. Because of the thing and the fish came out. He didn't get to finish the first time because of the alligator. There's a Mithosaur down there. Never went back to it. Whatever.

They did. They went back to the Mithosaur and he's down in the water. It means nothing. So, check this out, right? Hold on, hold on, hold on. It means nothing. I think this is the one thing that they did to, like, further the agenda because I agree with you guys. They didn't do a lot to further the agenda in this deceased finale.

But Grogu, going down there, be like, hey, Army. I see you, my boy. And the Mithosaur being like opening his eyes like, hey, what's up, honey? Like, we can come back to that at some point. We come back to maybe Grogoo is going to be cool with the Mithosaur, or they can do a Grogu Mithosaur fucking toy line. Okay, so cool. I've never seen you act like this, man. Damn.

I'm not acting like anything. I liked the episode, but I have to keep it all the way real. When this episode went off, my immediate thought was, that's it? like for real did it feel like a serious finality on? I've been having that reaction all fucking season bro no nigger

it's different okay because because when you do like when you do that so to me first of all it's different there's a difference

between doing that in the fourth episode of the season and the last episode of the season I did that last episode I'm like bro what are we doing here did you feel like did I feel like a serious finale

like if they said No more Mandalorian, man. We're cooking it. It's done. Like, with that ending, be like, yeah, I see it. Or would you be like, nah, man, get back in the lab? No, it's because think about what was set up. Now he's going to go, Den is essentially, he's going to go work for the new republic.

He's essentially going to be a bounty hunter or something for the new republic. He's going to take jobs through the new republic. So Dinn has kind of chosen a side in this situation. Perhaps it's because he understands the specific danger that the remnants of the empire posed to the galaxy. Perhaps it's because he doesn't want to kind of skirt the law. He's kind of worked with him. So Dinn is essentially chosen aside.

I think that's going to be incredibly important to the character moving forward because if we're eventually going to see Dinn and Asoka and whomever else in a situation against Grand Admiral Thrawn, you'd have to have wondered why before would Dinn be in this. And so now

his adventures and some of the things that he gets into with the New Republic might lead him back to Osoca might lead him to be at odds in some way with Boba Fett who is essentially a crime lord on Tatooey at this point. You know what I mean?

that opens up a lot of future for the show. I'm not saying that that's not true. That was actually something that I enjoyed. But, you know, I'm just saying as far as closing down and closing down the storylines that we got or buttoning up this episode, I don't think that it did a great job of that. Bocatan.

Ooh, we. Charles. I mean, what can we say about my old bud, Bocatan? man. She tried her best. She's the leader of this people now. What?

It's such a... What? All right. Here's my thing. This is actually what pissed me off. If you're going to give Boatown the Dark Sabre, we saw how badass she was, but she was saving fucking dead. Like, we know she knows how to wield this motherfucker.

I'm like, all right, cool. She's the leader. I'm on board. Whatever. you gonna let Moff Gideon do this to you. At least when like Moff Gideon was throwing dinner out, I could understand because like Dinn doesn't really have any big weapon to go against him. But like when Mof Giddy destroys the Dark Sabre, I was just like, yo, what the fuck is happening?

Bo, like, why aren't you like wielding this shit? Like we know how you can. It's just, like, they did so much the season to be like, yo, this is Boketan show. This is Boketan show. And I'm just like, yo, if you're going to do this, let her be a badass. Don't let her just like need Den and Grogu to save. It was just a weird way to end the book of Bogotan, in my opinion.

I thought it was an interesting decision to destroy the Dark Sabre. Bad decision. Personally, I hated it, but I don't understand you guys in your whole Dark Sabre thing. Jummy go. Okay, so in the, let's be real, in the grand scheme of things, in the line of story and the themes of the season I understand why they did it right

the Dark Sabre is not the end-l-be-all to who should be in charge right? It's a symbol you know and who says that we need to have this symbol at this period of time it's just a sword me personally that was my favorite thing

in All of Star Wars and now it's gone and I don't know how I'm going to live with myself. Your favorite thing in All-Star is the Dark Saber Joe me? Dude when it popped up in Clone Wars when Are you fucking with me?

I'm dead serious I'm dead serious. How old are you, Joe me? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on real quick. I'm not, look, I've known people before, you know, I had a homeboy one time, I was living with him, staying with them or whatever,

and, you know, I went to go use the computer. I don't know. Some things popped up on the computer. And I was like, oh, well, shit, I didn't know that you was into that type of shit. You know what I'm saying? I didn't judge him. You know, it was, you know, like, you know, like, I don't know if you guys know what sploshing is, but you can look that up.

I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I don't know what it is, but I'm not going to look it up. Food smashed everywhere and all of that stuff and everybody's from head to toe and this cakes and egg yolks and all of that stuff. I'm like, whoa. He's like, you know, I just like textures. like, whoa.

Don't, you know what I mean? I step back. But I don't judge. But just listen, listen to the point of the story. I don't judge. I'm like, yo, it's not like I call him Mr. Splash even still today. It's like I don't do that. I don't judge people.

I don't believe him. But I do wonder why. Why does a smash-up cake make you feel a certain way? Oh, my God. You know what I'm saying? Like, what is it about? I'm learning too much. What is it about somebody dropping mentos in?

Diet Coke and it's spraying everywhere. What makes you, like, I wonder. And so in the situation with you and the Dark Saber, I'm not judging the fact that the Dark Saber is your favorite thing in all of Star Wars. But I wonder, of all the things that you could love about Star Wars, what could possibly make the Dark Saber your

favorite thing. It's like a one of a kind light saber. Like we go like we think about all the Jedi like the Jedi sabers and like all the hills are different right but like all the colors are the same. You're going to get your blues, greens

you give the black guy purple. That's it. Right. Some people might have yellow. Right. There are people in legends who have orange and then you have the bad guys. They are red. That's it. The Dark Saber is like like a like Hilt's, you know, like again, you know, we talk about the Hilt, like it's shaped different,

it looks different. I seen pre-Visler with that thing, and I was like, hey, yo, that's kind of fire. Where did that come from? You do the research, and then, like me, for me personally, the clone, like, the episodes of Clone Wars with the Mandalorians with, um, Darth Mall, Sabine, Obi-Wan, like, all those, like, all those arcs were my favorite arcs of Star Wars, and then you have the, the finale, and I was, I was locked in on Manilor and locked in on the Dark Saber. So when I see it on live action, I'm like, oh, my God, Brody, right.

And then two seasons later, it's now like dust and trash. And it's like, wow, man, that's tough. You know, it's unfortunate. That's the problem in my opinion. That's the big problem. What? They try to port over shit that worked in animation. And sometimes I feel like they just don't know what they really want to do with it.

Like, I feel like they didn't know what they wanted to do with the Dark Saber. And I'm just like, that's nothing against the animation side. It's just like sometimes I feel like they're like, hey, wouldn't it be cool with the Dark Sabers in live action? And they don't do the second thing where they're like, wait, what is it being in live action mean to the story? Or are we just kind of shoehorning it in? Because I'll be honest, when the Dark Saber gets destroyed, I'm like, this is a, this is

kind of a microcosm, a symbol of the season. if Bokitan destroys it and being like, hey, it's dumb that our culture is still being ruled by this saber, let me destroy it. I would have been on board at least. I would have been like this makes character sense. For Mob Gideon to just like destroy it and they never bring it up for the rest of the episode, I'm like, why the fuck? Like, why were we doing this in the first place then? I would disagree. I would feel like it's very on character for Boketan to destroy the Dark Saber because that's kind of like how it goes for Boketan.

she gets a dark saber and either she loses it embarrassing fashion has to give it up or gets destroyed very much but how much has the dark saber clouded her judgment

in the past and clouded the judgment of all Mandalorians if you're telling me as a story like hey we need to stop being ruled by this thing

I could get it Moth Gideon just crumpling it and then just be like all right who cares so do you know what you say go ahead

go ahead Joe's because now I'm just wondering, I'm left to wonder, like, wait, all of the, like, Mandalorians who are following her, everything that happened in, like, the Lizzo and Jack Black episode, what, like, why did we fucking do it? Like, why did we have to go through this whole thing of, like, dimping, like, she's the one with the Dark Sabre now if she gets it destroyed in two episodes. So, I think the Dark Sabre represents something. Yeah. I think it always has represented something. I think that the Dark Saber represents wanting to rule Mandelor because you're the strongest.

person. Yeah. Right. So the want to rule Mandelor, the entitlement of the Dark Saber, I think is interesting to kind of to examine. So Darth Mall challenges for the Dark Saber has no connection to Mandalorian culture, right? Yeah. Challenges for the Dark Saber wins, was always going to win.

It's essentially a lightsaber fight with a Sith assassin against, you know, a guy. Clan viscous. He was going to win, right? His motivation for wanting to rule Mandelor has nothing to do with the Mandalorian people. Has to do with the fact that it's available. It's there to be ruled. So he goes and then he rules it, right? And then there are people that don't see the actual person.

that's sitting in their throne, that actually see just the saber itself, and it clouds their judgment to the point to where even after there's a rebellion against him, there are still some that follow him because they can't see the person over the symbol. And I think things like that happen all of the time, especially when we're talking about people

who are ruling or who are leaders. They look at leaders as a symbol of something rather than a person who leads. And for Boca Tain, she has become a person who leads. When Den was talking to her about the reasons why he serves her, had nothing to do with what she was able to win

or beat somebody for, had to do with who she was, and why he felt like that was important. When Palpatine beats Darth Maul, he doesn't take the Dark Sabre from him. He doesn't take the Dark Sabre from him. Number one, because he's living a double life. Yeah, that would snitch on him.

Right, he's living a double life and he can't. But he also doesn't really have any sort, he doesn't have anything to prove to Darth Mall. He expected to beat Darth Mall. There's nothing that Darth Mall has that Palpatine wants. What he really wants is him out of the way. He could be the leader of whatever. Palpatine has his own plan.

He did not beat the, ruler of Mandelor. He beat the person, his former apprentice. And so in a way, Boca Tan is now like free. She's free from having to be the wielder of the Dark Saber because it's destroyed. And she's also freed everyone else in Mandalorian culture to choose leaders based upon who they are and not what they willed. So to me, even though I thought it was kind of unceremonious in the way that the Dark Sabre was destroyed. I thought it was kind of fitting because it was destroyed in a fight. Someone said, crunch, now what are you?

Are you still the leader of Mandelor? Are you still, what are you now? Now you don't have this weapon, you don't have any of this. What is the real thing? It's kind of like, well, I want to say it's like when Thora lost his head. hammer. It's exactly like that except like in the same vein where except he went out and got another hammer in the next

movie. That's true. But like in that one they're like, are you God are you the God of Hammers? Are you the God of Hammers? Odin said that and then Thor, see they kind of undid that. Odin said that and then we thought that Thor was going to be able to use his shit. But then Thor was like, I need a weapon. You can't kill Vanos. You can't kill Thanos. Yeah, but everything you guys are saying, none of it was on screen.

Like everything that you just told me, Van, was far more interesting than anything that we got on screen. Like, we don't actually get to see any of the aftermath really of what ruling Mandelor is like, what is, is Boca Tan really the ruler? What role is the armor playing? Like, none of that was really given to us. So at the end of the season finale, I'm just like, all right, wamp, wamp, everything is good. And this symbol that everybody's been arguing about for seasons upon seasons of television.

Years. It's just dispatch. And it's like, I don't care if the Dark Sabres destroyed. I just want it to have meant something for the last seven or eight weeks

we've invested of our lives. It's tough. I mean, yeah, I mean, I agree with, man. Like, it's tough, right? Like, the role it plays in the story

getting destroyed completely makes sense. I completely understand that. Me personally, Olua, Jumelodio, Dineron, like,

you know what I'm saying? It's like, When you were sitting in Transformers, right, in, was it, 1984, 1984, 1986? And they kill Optimus Prime. You in that bitch, you was like, dang, bro. They got my guy. What the, nigga, I went to see it, yeah, I was there. And you was when they killed August, from.

Why you got to bring up the year, though? Well, because there's multiple Transformers movies. Yeah, but you were, you could just say the Transformer animated movie. You was just like, nigger, when it was 1913 and you went to the Nickelodeon. specific. You know, because it's not the same because they kill Optus Prime in Revenge of the Fallen,

but that wasn't sad. I mean, we, I can't explain to you guys what happened. Like, that was one of the first arguments that me and my dad got into. My dad was like, it's a cartoon. Cheer up. Get off me!

They don't know nothing. He's a better father than you've ever been. Jesus Christ. You know what I mean? It's like, I remember going to see the thing and my dad would always be these movies, right? And he would be like, he would be like so

annoyed. He wasn't the guy. Oh, I'm going to take the kids. My mother would be like, Terry, this boy is bothering me. Take this boy to see Transformers. Oh, I want to watch the ball game. Get up and be a dad. It can't all be about football and baseball with this boy.

All you want to do is put him in a goddamn uniform. Take him to see Transformers. Come on, son. Put the hat on. And then like the first 10, 15 minutes, he's like into the movie. He's like, oh, what's going to? Who is that? I'm like, it's Hot Rod. Who is that?

That's Optimus Prime. He's the leader. Oh, they killed him. Shut up. Boy, are you crying? Oh, my two? You weren't a fan of Hot Rod? If you know, Hot Rod was cool.

Hot Rod was whack, dog. Fuck Harrod, bro. Like Hot Rod, like Hot, like Hot. Like Hot, Hot, like Hot, cool, bro. Hot Rod was cool, but he wasn't, no, they thought that they was going, this is some different shit now, y'all got me going. They thought that they were going

give us Hot Rod and then take Prime and that we would be cool. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I just remember coming home and my cousin, Coy called and, how was the movie? And I was so hurt that I just spoiled it. I was like, I'm at least Prime die.

And all of a sudden, you hear on the other side, I'm like, yeah, Yeah, nigga, feel the feelings just like me, join me. And it's like, yo, he went to see it was fucked, it was fucked up. But here's the thing. Like, when that happened,

like, what I remember thinking is like, like, what does this mean for like Transformers going forward? Because they brought Prime back, right? But like, what does this mean for Transformers going forward? Are there Transformers if there's no Optimus Prime? And,

baby, is there a Mandalorian culture without the Dark Saber. And don't you feel like, for the things that this season hasn't done, that it's kind of established, maybe the tip of the iceberg of the cooperation

and the trust that's needed to have a thriving Mandalorian culture, regardless of the Dark Sabre, do you guys feel like they got to that point? Oh, man, absolutely. Hell. Wow, very different opinions. Here's the thing, Charles.

We sat, again, I mentioned this earlier. We sat here for six weeks ago, man, these man and Lawrence, they're going to eventually turn on each other. You know, we sat here last week, man. It's either Axwolves and the armor. One of them is a snitch. When Axwool's flying up to the ship, I was like, ah, he's going to escape, man. He was going to run away.

And all they did was band together and be friends and love each other so very much. It was honestly, it was honestly sickening. I was like, wow, no beef between nobody. Like, all it took was one fight between Bogartan and Axe Wolves. And everybody's a happy, loving family. family. That's, they like, at like arguments, I guess, but none of it, none of it was like really serious.

When it came, push or so of, all the mandolians stuck together in a way that I think was kind of weird considering like how their background is and how, like, vicious they can be. That the fact that they all like stood together in harmony was a like Disney movie type shit, but they did it.

And so at this point, they're pretty much like a standing family, you know, which is again, like kind of weird. but they did it. They did. You said they had no choice, Charles? They had no fucking choice.

They had no choice but to work together at then. It's just like, hey, we either are going to die or work together. Here's the thing. I, yeah, we saw Andor. We saw what it takes to make an intricate story about culture and politics and what it takes to rule that makes fucking sense. What part of this season and the mandatorian shit that happened made any goddamn fucking sense. None of it.

They just like yada yada and they're like, we relit the great forge. This Paz Vizlapuckers now a Mandalorian. Hooray! I'm like... God damn. Like what? Like, what are we doing? Even the whole thing where Dinn's like, hey, yo, I'm your second in command, Bo. I believe

in you. I believe in you for X, Y, Z reason. Dan is now a bounty hunter and fucked off. He's like, he's not on Mandelaar anymore. He got a vacation home. on Navarro, he don't give a fuck about Medallore anymore. What was the purpose of all of this? Wait, you feel like he had to stay living underground?

That's a big ask. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like, that's a lot. Like, bro, Navarro is lit. He got standing there. Like, he could still be down. Look, bro, I love my people.

Nick, I live off Olympic, dog. You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? You say Dimm likes gentrification. You don't want to be down. I'm not saying he likes gentrification. I'm just saying he's a part of the situation. But, you know.

You're trying to be a family man. He got to have a place. He's trying to raise a kid, bro. All right. So then let me ask you about all this. Monsters and spider motherfuckers. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think he can still be down.

So let me ask y'all this then. Did this season of Mandalorian do enough? that in the next season of Mandalorian, you would want, let's say, even half of the season to be about Boketan and Mandelor. At this point, I'm going to be honest with you. I think they should spin off a show for her if they're going to do that.

Book of Boketan, yeah. I'm being serious about this. If they're going to follow that storyline, I think that they should spin off a show. Because I don't think that there's enough bandwidth to be able to tell a competent story about Den and Grogu's relationship in their adventures in the galaxy

and the story of the reunification of Mandelor and all of that stuff. If they're really going to do that, which I'm not sure if this season is going to be a strong enough backdoor pilot for something like that, but they're going to do that,

then she needs her own show. Because they haven't shown the ability to weave those competing narratives or those dual narratives, should I say, in a way that does both of the mini service because when it was Boca Tan, it wasn't about Den & Grogo.

When it was about Dinogne, Gros, it really wasn't about Boca Tan. And so, I don't see how that they do both of those things, honestly. To me, that's an unsuccessful season. In terms of like, if the whole drive of your season

was Boca Tan, Mandelor, the reunification of it, securing the plan, it. And it seems like we're all like, I agree with you. If they're going to do it, it should be in another show. But I'm not excited to see that show in the same way that at the end of

season two of Mandalorian, I'm excited for an Asoka show. That to me is a failure of a season, and it's a failure of live action Mandelor that I'm a little bit like well, hope I never see those fuckers again. Jesus Christ. Who wrote

this document that I'm looking at right now? So I have a question. Who wrote this document? I wrote this document. Why? So there's a wild question in this document right here. Who is the Mithosaur attracted to? Dinn or Rogo? Charles, you want to tell me...

What? Don't... What are you talking about? You know what you're talking about. You know what that means. You know you know what that means. You want to talk about a different show. What do you ought to about?

You want to talk about a different show? You know what that means. Like seeing like... Don't not. married to the Mithosaur, the Mithosaur. It's like, you guys come back. You know what I mean? The Mithosaur is there.

What does it mean? Jolie, can you please help me out? Because you know what I'm in. What is the Dithosaur attracted to? What are you on about? You know what that means. I'm asking, I'm just saying, like, who attracted to Dina-a- First of all, there's been absolutely zero interaction between Dinn and the Mithosaur.

It's like, D-D-D-D-D-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-D-W. He didn't see it. He didn't see it. Yes, but Yes, but what? It is still, like, we don't know. Because he gets pulled. It's not like he drops.

He gets pulled. Did the Mithosaur pull him? So you're saying that the Mithosaur hit on dead is what you're trying to say. Dude. Right? See what I'm saying? I got to go through Charles's internet. Can we?

Oh, my God. Can we please get that? Because, like, man, you don't want me to start with the shit. You be doing. You're sending them. I'm, I'm, oh, my God. open about my shit. I'll tell you out, like, I tell you

all straight up, I'm open, I'm open about my shit, I'm open about the fact that I've had to rain it in. Like, I'm open about the fact that I'm like, all of it. I tell my stuff, you guys are the ones of me in. I don't like you. You make me feel funny.

This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies sweet greens new wraps have got you real ingredients zero shortcuts everything you love in one hand think green goddess chicken garlic aoli crumbled bacon corn salsa 40 grams of protein made to keep up with whatever comes next new sweet green wraps hit different order now at order dot sweetgreen.com joey i will ask you at the end of this episode we do see the mythosur open their eyes but it is when

basically Grogu becomes a full-fledged Mandalorian. I felt like that was the show being cute about, is Grogu, does Grogu have a bigger role to play in this culture and with the Mythosaur? I absolutely think so. I mean, one of the things we asked at the beginning with like, who is the Mandalorian? You know, what does the show say?

Now, I will say this. If you watch a show of captions, they don't call them Den in the captions. They call them The Mandalorian, which I thought was interesting. They're very like, he's the guy. But I think with the Mythesaur being this creature that holds a lot of, like literally is like the Mandalorian, you know, symbol who holds so much respect for that culture. I think that connection could prove useful in the future.

Maybe it's just like, oh, man, maybe Grogu is the, you know, the being supposed to save Vanilo this whole time. Or maybe just Grogu just rise in the Manilor one. time for the one time, you know, but we know he's always had a connection to animals. And so for him and the Mithosaur to connect like that, it's pretty cool. And I think sets the stage for potentially something cool. We say that. We said the same thing when Dean got the Dark Sabre, like, oh, man, maybe we can see something cool. He might just never see the Mithosaur again.

Like, that might be, you know what I mean? Might be the end of that. But can I ask, now that the Dark Sabre has been destroyed, would Grogoo riding or taming the mythosaur or any of them, even then, have the same reverence with the Mandalorian people that it might have before. If their culture is moving away from symbols and ritual, might it then move away from whatever relationship

it's traditionally had to the mythosaur? Is that going to be a tougher thing? Well, here's the thing, right? Mythosaurus are thought to be extinct, right? So the very existence of a mythosaur So for what, the armored Bocatan and Grogoy, the only people who know that Mithosaurs exist and are still alive, at least one.

For Grogut to tame a Mithosaur and ride a Mithesore would be the ultimate, yeah, I'm a Manderlorean, get with it. I don't think it'll be like, oh, snap, we got to put him in charge, he's now the king of Mammalore whatever, but it would submit him as like one of the goats, like one of the greatest Manderlans. ever seen, you know. Okay.

So can I, can I ask this? Dave Filoni said, uh, said this. It was, it was taken by Clyder, quote, they'll meeting fans have a lot to take in. And I think with any good ending, there's a moment you're in it when you're cheering and you feel satisfied. But then there's a little bit after that where you think back at all the things that happened.

Maybe you start to put them together in a different way and you realize it's an ending, but there are other things happening out there in the galaxy that you know more about. What was Faloni fucking talking about? Like what part of this episode was like, once this drops, y'all will understand so much more. Because I was watching this episode with that quote in the back of my head being like, wait, what's going to happen? Like, can you guys, do you guys, can either of you kind of tell me what Faloni might have been hinting at? That's the explainer right there. Man, really stretching the explainer part of the job, huh?

I think. Because, I mean, they set up that, you know, he's going to be working. for, Den's going to be working for the New Republic, and they got a little, like, you know, summer house on Navarro. And maybe this is the part where we, like, they grow. And, you know, we don't know, we don't know, like, when season four is coming out. We have no idea if there is an instance where I'm sure,

they'll, you know, go bring it back. Yeah, like, they're not going to lose the moneymaker. But at the same time, like, what can, what could we expect from the season before? We said, you know, for that I'm going to do a book, a Bogotan and we're going to go back to the adventures of Din and Grogu, what does that mean? Back to bounty hunting, right? What does that mean for Grogu's force, you know, growth? You know, does Grogu do we come back season four?

And Grogu is now like a teenager and he's like 6'5 and he's voiced by Chris Pratt. He's like, yo, pops, man. I'm trying to get these lightsaber things off. You feel me? But we keep going on these missions and I'm tired. and you know what I mean? Like there's a way to do it. But in terms of that quote,

I have no idea what that means because I didn't make any sense in this, like relative to this finale. You think he was just trying to be nice being like, yo, I didn't really have my hand in this season. Oh yeah, he was definitely like, I just watched the edit in the edit bay. I got to be nice because I got to see Dave Filoni.

I got to see John Favre at work when I go to Lucasfilm every day. So I'm just, be real, real PG about him. Like, it was great. It's awesome. Remember, Osaka's coming to Disney Plus and August. Watch that, please. I can't take y'all fucking serious, like, hating this episode that much because y'all

motherfuckers like the cookie episode. I didn't know. One minute. You said, the cookie episode. You keep saying the same shit. What are you talking about? Number one, I didn't say that I hated the episode. I said it was a good episode of television.

I didn't like it as a season finale. Stop doing this. By the way, I didn't realize that Hot Rod was. in Transformers the last night. I never saw that. Oh, man, good. It was, it's the worst transfer. I'm not the worst Transformers movie.

I got to watch it. One of the worst movies I've ever seen. Which one is that, Jones? The last one. It's the last one. It's the one Mark Wahlberg and Anthony Hopkins. In England? Yes.

Oh, well. Oh, that's true. It was bad. No, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you all story, right? I'm in college, right? This is my, this, I'm going to, I'm in grad school, summer 2017, right? Don't let me hear you missed out on some ads.

for the last one. No, no. I was living by myself at the time. And it's a summer, it's summer and I'm like, T-Mobile got these $4 tickets, right? I got like $21 at my banking card, right? I got just enough money for the ticket, some chicken tenders, and an Uber ride home, right? It's all the money have in my wallet. And I'm like, I'm going to go see this movie. I'm going to walk to the theater. Theaters, like, like three miles away from my spot. And then I'm going to get the chicken tenders. I'm an Uber back because I'm going to be late, dark, I'm not trying to get run up on in the streets late at night, right? So I go, I walk the three miles. It's hot.

It's hot. I'm sweating, but I'm like, man, Transformers, bro. It's going to be lit, bro. You feel me? I get to the theater. I get my chicken tend as I sit down and I watch the worst movie I've ever seen in my entire life. No direction, no plot, no stakes, no nothing.

Terrible, awful. Wasted my entire life. And now I got to take a $10 Uber back to the cribbo. me and this brother, we get pulled over, but Akami's like, oh, you made a turn right there. And I'm thinking, man, I'm going to be a hashtag. This is crazy, bro.

I lost. You know, just the worst experience in my entire life all because I wanted to go see Transformers the last night. Terrible decision-making for me. I have not learned from that experience. No. But I've only gotten worse. I've only gotten much worse.

But at that time, I was like, man, I lost. I failed. It was a- We still love you. Terrible. I appreciate that. How close was this to the Agents of Shield debacle? Agent Shield would have been the next, like, if this was like June, or this is like June

July, August or whatever, Azo, the shit would have been like nine months away. No, we got to relitigate your college years, bro. We got to talk about them. Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, my college years, I have fun. Okay. You know what I'm saying? I have fun. But I'm not going to lie.

I definitely, you know, see, because I got, see, see, see, I got my master's degree at 21, right? So I had to be locked in a little bit, you feel me? Okay. You know, I had to be in them books, you understand. So, you know, after like, after like my freshman, my freshman, like, year, I just kind of start, you know, the kickbacks, you know, it's kind of like, I'm good, guys. We're going to chill. We're going to hang out to crib on this Thursday night, you know what I mean? and then, you know, it kind of just... All right, that's enough, Jomey. And it happened like that. You know what I mean?

Jomey's the man. Jummi's one of my closest friends here in L.A. Okay, so, future of the Mandalorian. Charles, just broad opening the question before we get to the midnight meter. Let's just say the future of the Mandalorian is very shaky. I think they're going to have to go back in the lab and cook. I do think that Kathleen Kennedy, Favreau, Faloni,

will do a lot of engineering in terms of making season four what it needs to be. Because what, at least one fifth or one fourth of their future movie slate, is dependent upon people still being interested in the Mandalorian as a product. and part of me wonders and I'll ask you this van can a Mandalorian slash Assoca slash Boba Fett

movie succeed if we have the same type of like down response to season three of Mandalorian in terms of like getting people who are not constantly keeping up with everything wanting to go to the theaters to see this movie

obviously things have to get better right to keep the investment from the fan base high. But I would caution people from overreacting if you feel like this season was a letdown. I was around for season two of The Wire, which at the time was a big letdown to people. I've been around for other things,

other seasons of television to where, I don't know if there'll be sort of the retrospective on this season um of the mandolian like there was season two of the wire because there's so many things to love there and i think it was a little bit shocking to everyone when they first saw all the white people that weren't on the first season um

but a bad season of television uh doesn't necessarily mean of television or you're talking about overall or we're just talking about the mandolian now you're talking about the way things are true Book of Boba Fett. Mandermorey. Okay, cool. Well, if we're looking at a macro situation, then I think on both sides of the aisle, Disney and the MCU, there's some creative soul search to be done there with these Disney properties. That's a larger conversation.

That's a larger conversation. I think about this particular season, excuse me, this particular show, I think there's a way that they can continue to grow this show and captivate this audience while pushing the narrative forward that they'll do as long as they're true to their career. creatives, as long as their creatives are actually able to tell a story. This season screams too many cooks, guys. It is screaming too many cooks. It's staccato. It starts and stops. It tries to do something. It doesn't do it. It resolves something in ways that are so fundamentally unsatisfying and sometimes not really even doesn't don't even make sense to the characters

you know what I mean? This screams too many cooks as does popping up in the middle of a Boba Fett season within a whole episode of the Mandalorian two whole episodes of the Mandalorian. It's a great episode of Madelioran.

Great episodes. Better than anything in the season. Great episodes of the Mandalorian, right? Popping up there when there's a not a new character, but there's a new narrative on a character that we're trying to get to know. They essentially told us how unimportant Bobafet was

and how important Mando was. I'm serious. So there's obviously some creative soul searching. My point is, it doesn't really, there's nothing that I've seen that says that the future of the Mandalorian isn't bright, that this show can't come back and be what it was before.

I don't think that there's been anything fundamentally changed or anything that they can't get back by by tightening it up a little bit. So I was meeting more specifically, can the Mandalorian get back to the point where it's not us watching it? It is everyone watching it. It is like appointment viewing for people who aren't even up on Star Wars like that. Sure, of course. Is this show just like, is it a different show now? is it a little bit harder for people to get their arms around it because it has to do so much for the Star Wars brand? And that's talking about movies and toys and being the center of something that's supposed to make you billions upon billions of dollars.

It can be tough because I kind of see where Charles is coming from. I watch one of my favorite shows, I'm about to get a genoa real quick, Star Trek lower decks. right and I'm not into Star Trek at all but the show is good enough for me to where the references, a lot of stuff that happens I don't, I can't recognize but I still enjoy the show and I go into like the Reddit and the Twitter Thursdays people are like, did you see this? Did you recognize this? Do you see this? I'm like

I have no concept of what that thing even means right? I kind of feel like the Mandalorian has gone to a place where you're not going to be able it's going to be in the same vein where like people are like oh man did you recognize it? this, like the Zeb cameo, right? For us, people who are into this stuff love rebels, like, oh my gosh, that Zeb, if there's too much of that where there's just like, who's that?

Who's that? I think you do kind of lose your every man quality. If people have to show up every day and be like, I don't know who some of these people are, I don't want to do the homework. They cut it off. Ultimately, I think by getting back to basics in the future, where you just, it's den, Grogu, they have to do A, but in order to do A, they have to go kill a big monster for somebody.

And then, you know, just like season one, I think if they get back to basics, they can get it cooking again, I think we can start to see some of that season one, season two forever where everybody was locked in on. But with, you know, tying in all the stuff from Clone Wars and rebels definitely does cut off a little part of the audience. but I think with how this season ended, they can get back to where they were early versions of the show. So what you guys are talking about,

it's not 10%, not 20%, not 30%, not 40%, not 50, 60, 70, 80, 90. It is 100% a narrative issue. It doesn't have anything to do with what Star Wars was before, how much there's been in the past, how many books, how much lore, how many movies. It has to do with how you tell the story that you're telling. And let me tell you what I mean. If they're writing stories,

assuming that you watch the Clone Wars, like we've talked about on this podcast before, we've talked about it, then they're doing the wrong thing, period. If they're writing stories assuming that you've seen all of this other stuff, they're doing the wrong thing. there have been books and lore that have been adapted into television and movies forever.

Like when Game of Thrones first comes on, there's an entire backstory for all of these characters. And over the course of time, they reveal the motivations and reveal what's happened in the past through story. Now, it's a very different show, right? With a lot more episodes, a lot more characters, a different style of writing. But I'm telling you right now, if you don't understand the significance of the Dark Saber in this show, it's not because you didn't watch Clone Wars. It's because the Mandalorian failed. If you don't understand the fact that the children of the watch and the night owls were sworn enemies, it's because they waited till the eighth episode of the show to tell you that, right? It all has to do with their commitment to the story that they're telling. What ends up happening is they're half trying to tell one story

and half trying to tell another without fully committing to either one. If we look back at the Dr. Pershing episode of this show, I didn't have a problem with that episode. It's totally useless, though, how much they devoted towards that. Like, how long they stayed there? Like, if we're to understand that there's cloning being done on the in the new republic

or this guy that wants to clone stuff in the new republic whatever however there just doesn't need to be that much time devoted to that if in fact there is going to be no significance

to that entire episode before that could have been at the end that could have been an episode about the history of the night owls and the children of the watch that could have been an episode

that gave us really good information about why these factions hate each other, about how these factions don't get along, that could have been played out between, one campfire conversation between Bo Catan and Deng Jarn, somebody, one of them who's a night aisle, and one of them who's in the children of the watch, that leads to an argument that leads to all of their old shit coming back

before somebody, before Grogu or Cooler heads prevail, because they're from two different factions, could have fixed that entire thing and made for a much, much more streamlined narrative around them but they chose not to do it for whatever reason. So what I'm saying is it's not the amount of things that they have to do. It's how they do them. And that's really, in my opinion, it's how they're going to do it.

Pick one story, pick one thing, and tell your shit. Like anything else to me is just them spreading themselves thin. You know what I mean? So, like, I understand kind of what the deal is and maybe some people's want to see an intense amount of world building and all of this stuff. But they just have to make the shit make sense. They just got to tell one story. Like, just tell the one story. Like, everything that we don't know is not because we didn't read it or we didn't watch it.

It's their thing to do that. And they had more than enough hours to do it. and they just didn't for whatever reason. All right. Midnight meter time. Jesus. This is an easy one. It's a seven.

This is not an easy one. A seven? It's an easy one for me. It's a seven. Eight would be too, and let me tell you why it's a seven. I actually thought you were going to have an eight. I thought,

no, no, no, no. It's a seven. Eight would be too high, six would be too low. That's really why it's a seven. Eight, eight would be too high. Six would be too low. I'm a seven as well. I kind of feel like

Yeah, it was just totally uneven This season and it gave us some some good goods Like there was some highs there But at the end of the day I can't Like an age that's that's crazy for this season Yeah, it's too much Are y'all fucking high? A seven?

A seven? Yeah, I think seven's fair I think seven's cool That's fair This shit is like this show is lucky I'm getting it a six. I was about to give it a five and I'm like, that's wrong. Like, a five is rough.

Get, get, get, do your thing. If you think it's a five, give it a five. I think there are a lot of fives walking around out here. I talked to somebody before I got here who was very upset with the show. If you think it's a five, give it a five. Oh, wait, who's upset with the show? No, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.

If you think it's a five, give it a five. yeah this season has to be a five I'm just like nothing happened bro like nothing happened you could throw this whole season away and nothing would have changed about what we know about these characters

like don't like and this hurts because I think this was probably my number one most in terms of what we cover on Midnight Boys this was my number one show of like there's no way it can fail there's no way it can be bad Mando is going to like

rejuice me and dog fuck all of this shit that happened man like it's just ugh nah man this shit was ugly to look at no man fuck all this that's uh five of stuff

might not hold you that's uh scrim if we but here's a thing let me just how many of these episodes of the Mandalorian season three do we think were vital to the series vital

um vital I would argue two so seven maybe. So seven vital to the series. And well, seven and two.

Seven and two are the only ones I can think of. Seven and two. And a little bit of eight. Because two, then he swims around on the water. Yeah. So that's pretty important. Seven and two. Vital.

Vital, you're making a point. In terms of vital, I mean, Dean takes his helmet off. And so that has to be cleaned up. And so he goes for a swim. I mean, episode two, I mean, episode two is where he fumbles the saver. Episode six is where he gives up the saver. Episode seven and episode eight, I think, are the most important episodes in terms of getting man and Lord together.

He swims in episode three. No, episode two. It's episode two. Is it episode two? Yeah, it's episode two. It's episode two. It's episode two. It's episode two where he swims.

So that, that to me is, no. It's not episode two. It is episode two. Is it? Is episode three the one? Episode three is the one where they... She saves him in episode two. Right?

Yeah. And they swim and they drown. And then they're going back to her place. Episode three is where we get the Pershing episode. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Episode three is Pershing.

Episode three is Pershing. Okay, cool. So let's give... So let me get your final answer. How many would we say we're vital? Two. I would say four. Say four.

Which one is that? I'm probably going to be in the middle with three out of eight. That's really bad. Like, that's, well, I mean, if you judge the, if you judge the, if you judge a show on how many episodes are vital. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, that's true. I mean, when I talk about vital, I'm like, it doesn't have to just be like vital in terms of like this was the most important, like, story that's ever happened.

It's like, did we learn something about this character? Did it push the narrative forward? Did it make us rethink how we think about not only this world, but the larger Star Wars? There's thousands of ways to be vital. And I'm like, if only two to four of them were vital, I'm just like, that's not a great season of television. No, all that. I mean, I mean, Manloin's been pretty basic on its storytelling. I think this is the year, I don't say this is the time they took like a big shot.

And I don't think it quite landed as well as they hoped. But like, for the most part, you know, season one, you know, It's just, you go somewhere. He has to do, it's like a video game. He's got to go do one thing. Man, I really don't want to take care of this baby. Well, we've got to take care of this baby. You know, like, I don't, like, the vitality, like, I don't really, you know,

I don't really, I don't really, I mean, I guess I'm trying to understand your shame, but I don't, I don't. My last thing, my last thing I'll say is the reason also it gets a five is like, they made the Mandalorian's less cool. Like, that's a sin. Like, that is like, the Mandalorian, those first two scenes, I'm like, oh, dog, the Mandalorians are fucking cool as shit.

By the end of this one, I was like, dog, these are some goofy motherfuckers. Like, I never want to see them again. I don't, I don't think that's true. I think that this episode, Dregular showed, like when you men and women's work together, band together, they can be cool as hell. The scene where they're coming from the sky.

And, well, first of all, we got to talk about the range of these jet packs, because Axe rules went to space with his impact. Makes no sense. Like, I mean, like, they got, like, the super fuel, you know what? saying he got like the premium the premium unleaded joint no i'm saying he spent the extra 20 cents they could barely go half a mile in the first episode they could barely go half a mile and he's

going to space hey man it's that it's that new gas hey shout out to him but when they're falling from space bruh and she got the dark saber out and the armor got the hammer out that's that was cool they ain't going to hold you like them that the air to air combat was fire like no cat let's come on man the only they can do that why don't somebody just shoot the armor and her shit. She can't block that shit. She got like a, she fighting, she fighting somebody with a tuning fork. I think it's, you know what I'm saying? I think it's different levels. I think I don't ever been outside for a minute.

Probably so, right? Right. So I want, I want, I want everybody to do something here. Jomi, do we have a email address that people can get out of us? We do. I have to look at it. So Jomey's going to look that up. I want, I have an assignment for all of the the midnight mob and the midnight riders, the fans of the, the Ring of Verse out there before we go. I want you guys to write us a letter.

I want all of you guys who are out there to write letters. These letters are to a Marvel and to Star Wars. I want you to tell us how much you're being disappointed in and letdown. Jesus Christ. We're then going to read these letters on an episode of The Midnight Boys.

I want you guys to really dig deep down into your soul, and tell us either good or bad how you feel about the state of Star Wars and the MCU right now. Doesn't have to be a long thing. I can tell you right now. If y'all come back with some 5,000 world bullshit, I'm not reading that shit.

Okay? You have to be a better teacher. What's the word cap? You've got to give them like, don't exceed this amount of words. I would say don't exceed 1,000 words. 1,500 words. A thousand, 1,500 words is a lot. That's a feature on the radar.

That's a lot. Yeah, that's a piece of the rigger.com. I say like 250. I say like 250. Not enough. 250 not enough. I think a thousand is fair. A thousand.

Don't exceed a thousand. Don't exceed a thousand words. If he don't put a manifesto in the, you know what I'm saying, in the Gmail. And don't, don't, you know. And by the way, get straight to the point. Ain't nobody trying to hear. I love Jomi so much. I don't, that's not what it's about.

Get straight to the point. Get straight to the point. It'll be about you, about your connection to it. We're going to read these letters because we need to make our voice heard with some of this stuff. Okay. They're squabbling and squibbling in these places everywhere, and I feel like they're forgetting about the fans. They're forgetting about what we want, which is good, enriching stories.

So everybody write them. I think it won't be next week we'll do this. We'll do this the week after. Jomey, what's the email address? The ringerverse at gmail.com. Send them all to the ringerverse at gmail.com. I'm talking about come out of your skin a little bit. Come out of your shell.

Talk about it. All that the shit y'all do on Facebook and Reddit, we'll read it here so that the people at Marvel and at Star Wars, who I know for certain listen to this podcast and other Ringerverse podcasts. Big fans, big fans. So that they can hear you out. write your shit because

we got a whole year we got a whole half of a year left man and a lot is riding on Asoka I would just say that like a lot of my years I'm just like they need to win not just Asoka

Asoka Guardians 3 um Secret invasion Secret invasion Loki like they need a rally Some of this stuff is already shot So your letters don't matter

But they need a rally They need a rally Oh real quick before we go Anything on the rumors of Adam Driver As Mr. Fantastic Seems to be just rumors right now I thought they were going into They said they wanted somebody

You know they felt like you know 20s You know early to mid-20s And I looked up at a driver He is 39 years old Um Interesting to see how that goes but if they got Adam Driver playing him

then I guess we're going to have some old Fantastic Four folks which is you know He's 39 years old Older sorry Yeah sorry Jesus Christ Damn Joan

You just turned 43 Happy birthday man by the way Thank you very much Can I be all the way 100 With this potential rumor Adam Driver way too good for that MCU at this point Like if we're going to

Come on man It's a bag bro He's like he got movies though Like he's a generational talent I'm like bro you don't got to be slumming it at this point Maybe after they like write the shit Was Glenn Close slumming it in the MCU

When she showed up in Guardians of the Galaxy 2014 Or Robert Redford slumming it up That's a bag When you're just coming in and he's just like All right I'm just doing wop-d-wop That's fine When you're like oh I'm going to be in multiple movies

This Adam Driver might be in 10 movies I don't want to see Adam Driver in 10 fucking like Marvel movies I would rather see him in like a Scorsese don't worry about it none of y'all like Fantasia for anyway so like y'all ain't going to worry about it so this is what I think I'll say

this tells me a little bit about what I feel like the direction of Rie Richards is going to be for the MCU thought that they were going to do or I wasn't sure whether or not they were if this is true which is a rumor if they were going to do more

sort of genteel genius every man portrayal of reichers which he's been in the past at certain times then you get a guy like Krasinski or someone like that but if they're going to go with the Re Richards that is literally one personality trait away from

doom this sort of toxic know-it-all that is obsessed with figuring out the theory of the problem of everything or the solution to everything or whatever he calls it, and that kind of doesn't see people as people. Kind of an asshole.

Kind of a dick. Yeah. Kind of a little bit of... Jonathan Hickman's Mr. Fantastic. Jonathan Hitman's Mr. Fantastic. The Mr. Fantastic that you wonder why his family kind of doesn't leave him and like this guy's kind of a dick. You know what I mean? Why is Sue

still here? The one that Sue Storm, you like, she keeps going to like Atlantis being like, hey, yo, he's not doing the business. You go to Wakana like, Ate de Cholabon. Save me. If that's the version of Reed that they're going for, I think the driver is perfectly cast. I really do.

If you're going for the different Reed, I'm a family guy type of kind of the one that Ian Grumfield was playing from Fantastic Four, then you go with a guy like Krasinski. But if you're going to go from kind of the newer way that we we see Reed, like the Ultimates version of Reed, even who was a villain almost.

It's not almost, but basically. Well, really quick before we wrap then, Van, Mr. Hollywood, what I wanted to ask you, what do you think the likelihood is of an Adam Driver being like, at this stage in the MCU being like, I want to sign up for this? Because he doesn't need to. Like, he's not at that point in his career where it's just like, he needs it. He is probably the leading man in terms of his generation.

It's not a gas for Adam Driver. You know, this is what I always see. Adam Driver was in a Super Bowl commercial. Remember where they were, he was everywhere in the Super Bowl commercial, right? He was like, they did the whole thing, Super Bowl commercial. Good for him. And Adam Driver was also in a movie called 65 about aliens, not aliens. Dinosaurs coming to Earth and then they meet dinosaurs back in the day or whatever.

I didn't see the movie. But do you know what that tells me? What does that tell you? Remaining the bag. He need a check. He wants to make money. And we've seen Adam Driver have a lot. of critical success. You've seen him have, like,

box office success with the rise of Skywalker and all of those movies, right? Yeah, a ton of mine. With the three prequels. But it tells me that, like, you know, he wants to be a movie star, that he's doing things to be seen as more than a critical darling. He's not looking to be a Johnny Depp type of guy, right? You know, I see him in a Manoa Bombback film. I see him do all kinds of movies that really flex his muscle as an actor,

and people have that muscle. I guess what he wonders now is whether or not he can be a compelling leading figure in a movie like this that makes a lot of money and that he can make a big bag. So every actor has that part of them. Most actors do besides like Daniel Day Lewis and a couple other guys to where they want to be in everybody's multiplex. And this might be the opportunity for him to do it. If he were to take it, I hope somebody lets him know that it's a 10-year commitment that he'll be playing the same role in 55 maybe. You know what I'm wondering where I'm just like, does he want like I'm just like

do you want that to be the next 10 years of your life? Because like he could be the next Robert Downey Jr. in terms of like building a whole universe around him. Perhaps we'll see. Worked off for Robert Donnie Jr. I'll tell you one thing. Getting to a point where you're making

$75, $100 million per movie come on man. I'm driving. I don't want to have a boat too. Get off Adam Johnson. Island's not going to pay for itself. But then big ass weird shoulders. Like you know what I'm saying? Like that nigga want to boat too.

He didn't have to get like Robert or Chris Evans or Chris Hemsworth fit too to do it. No, he's Rearichs, man. Yeah, he can be lanky. Like, it's cool. Like, you know, as a matter of fact, I think he might be too slow to be reed riches.

Adam Driver kind of big, right? He did he get some shoulders, man. He's seen him in a... Yeah, but he does got, to your point, man, he does got that weird thing where he's just like, why do you store him with him? Like, they're going to have somebody very attractive and, like, Adam Driver's just going to be his old cranky girl self

where he's just like, dog. Like, go call me a more. He's going to smash so much drywall. Oh, Jesus. I thought you was about to go somewhere else. Okay. I'm saying. Oh, my God.

That's a wrap. Follow us on social. Do you wait? Can I ask you real? Do you think Sue Storm is going to clap those Kukulakan cakes? All right. Get out of here. Like, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save.

Jomi's job. This Friday, the House of R will be giving you their deep dive into season finale, the Mandalorian. I'm telling you right now, you guys do not want to miss that podcast. Do not miss that podcast. Next Wednesday, we're going to return to Midnight Court, me and Charles. Debate whether or not Avengers Infinity War or Avengers' Endgame is the Superior

Film. Today, our producer was Jonathan, a little spider. Good job, John. Jomey at dinner on, as always, on socials. Hashtag the Jumatorian Guards. Did you do that? I did that. I did that. I did that. I missed them. I liked it. Additional production from Arjuna Romcapon.

Charles, take us out. We missed Steve today, but the waters of Mandelora are flowing. And if we learned anything on today's episode, the Dark Saber sure does get Jomey going. Oh, no! Oh, that! Wait, hold on. Hey, yo. What do you mean by that?

Hey, yo. What do you mean by that, Joe? Soundboard, I technically have it, but I'm going to be real with you. This nigga put it here. I'm going to do what I can. There's going to be a delay. I don't want to hear nothing from you, niggas. It'll be good in post. This is post credits right here. This is this is this is post credits right here.

Every time I'm coming here, I know how y'all get. Are you going to say anything? Nobody said anything. This is post credits right here. He's being, he's like covering all his bases. Covered all his bases before. I've never, this is like a pre-fail. You know what I'm saying?

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