The Ringer-Verse - The Midnight Meter 12 Inductions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

It's time to set the standard. The Midnight Boys are here to induct their personal picks into the Midnight Meter Hall of Fame. They choose, debate, and vote on the absolute best movies in fandom that deserve the coveted 12 ranking on the Midnight Meter (06:03). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Steve Ahlman, and Jomi Adeniran Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is of course the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve, the architect, almond, the tinker and builder of things. We are. Jomi, the 5-inch warrior at dinner on, his claim to fame is being body shame.

Body shaming. No, it's Jomey, Jomey, the explainer at dinner on. You've got questions. He's going to That was a one episode thing. We are. Yeah. Explain the five.

Old man, van. He of the receding hairline, surgeon hairline, eventually, pretty soon. Maybe. We are. Cote baby Chuck, 24-carrier-closer, aka the brunch haiti, aka the man with the big brain. Together, we are known as of the midnight boys. Ah, boo-hoo!

Boo-hoo! All right, look, you have to follow us on socials. socials are Insta Twitter, Facebook Safe Jomey's job, TikTok as well Is Reddit considered social media? Yeah, I have no control over that, man. I let them cook over there.

That's hands off. They do what they do over there, yeah. So Reddit is the WildW West of Ring orverse content. Do we control the Facebook? No. That's also, I let them cook over there too. Clearly we do not. So then what's the, yeah, we'll talk about it.

I know we won't. No, we won't. Steve, don't worry about it. No, we're talking about it. Stop. No, why wouldn't we talk about it? Why wouldn't we talk about it? Yeah, by the way, so if we control, or if you don't control the Facebook, you don't

control the Reddit, why are you pumping Facebook but then not Reddit? Well, you know, it's nice to have a place where everybody can come together and talk about their favorite things about the podcast, about the content. You know, it's a little community that they can have where they can talk and we don't, we're hands off. You know, y'all do y'all thing, y'all cook, you all enjoy, you know. Did you understand the question? The question is we're pumping the Facebook, which we don't have control over.

But when I asked you about the Reddit, you said you have no control over the Reddit. So why won't we include Reddit too? I'm just wondering. That's a great question. You know, it's like a really fantastic question. Shout out to the Reddit. All right, moving on. Program is it matters.

This coming Monday, Ben Lindberg will be joined by special guests to discuss instant reaction to the Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom, which I'm assuming is a new legend of Zelda game. A sequel to Breath of the Wild. Sequel to Breath of the Wild. I have a Switch, but I don't have any Zelda games yet

because I can't put down Mario Odyssey. Oh, I'm about to play that shit, right? We're right after God. Odyssey is the best. It's the Mario game I never knew I needed. But check in with Ben on Monday for that. Next Wednesday, the Midnight Boys

are going to be giving you our worst movies in fandom draft. Worst movies. All right, I want some nominees on the Twitter. I want some nominees on the Reddit. I want some nominees on the Facebook. Worst movies in fandom. Everybody give me a knee-jerk answer right now

to worst movies in fandom. Give us a green lantern first overall pick. Do you think Green Lantern first overall pick? I'd never been more disappointed in it either. Like that was a rough watch. Wow, Jemmy. I can't say my first pick. So I'm going to go with Thorold of a Thunder

probably. Oh, man. That dog. That stinks. It's a bad movie. I was just about to ask if any MCU movies will make the cut for the worst movies

in fandom. You think Thor 2? Eternal, Thor 2. Captain America 1. So wait. I feel like we need to reassess Thor 2. You're putting these movies

relax. You're putting these movies up here with the worst movies in fandom. We're talking about with the Green Hornet, with the Green Lantern, with X-3 the last. Green Hornet was bad like that?

Green Hornet was bad like that? Green Hornet when it came out, man. Oh, there you go. You also like Asa's the Shield, Joe. You know what I? There you go. There you go. Okay. Oh, X-Man Orges or, yeah, Wolverine Orges? That's terrible.

I like it. Van, I know that face. I know that face. I know that face. Come on, man. I'm on, man. I like it. I don't care what y'all say.

Fuck y'all. I like it. but you know, Batman and Robin movies like that. Anyway, okay, that'll be fun. That'll be a lot of fun, shitting on things and people's work. That's, that'll be amazing. On today's show, we're holding our first induction ceremony into the Midnight Meter Hall of Fame.

This is the opposite of Jomey, because everything's going to be a 12. Now, how did I get put in a news? Come on, now. Look at the computer. The computer say, fuck 50, fuck him. Now,

what the fuck he said for? What? I love that meme. So funny. All right, Chuck, take it away. For those that have forgotten, the Midnight meter is the Midnight Boy's

proprietary grading system. On this show, we grade all movies and TV shows on a traditional, one to ten, scale. One for the worst, and 10 are truly amazing films. But every so often, a 10 just isn't enough.

Sometimes in fandom, there's a movie or show that's so sublime we give it the honorable distinction of an 11, which is awarded for near perfect films or a 12. This is reserved for the game changers. It's a combination of everything. Cultural impact, box office, what were people saying? Was this influential to the entire medium? So for the first time in our show's history,

we're ready to officially unveil the auto 12. movies so unimpeachable, we don't even have to discuss their placement. And after much deliberation, we agreed that there's 12 automatic inductees, six from the world of movies, and six from the world of TV. And for the TV ones, we will reveal them at a later date. But our auto 12s, for the purposes of this show, are the Dark Night, the Empire Strikes Back, Spider-Man into the Spider-verse, Captain America, Winter Soldier, and Infinity War slash Endgame.

Then, how are we feeling about these six? so far? I think that those six are solid, unimpeachable 12s. I personally, I think those are solid, unimpeachable 12s. When you look at those films, you're looking at the cream of the crop when it comes to fandom, particularly superhero movies, I don't know that anybody is going to have anything to say about those movies being 12s. Well, what about the men boys?

What do you all think? Mint boys, what are you all think? Oh, that's a perfect start. I think I solid agree. A lot of MCU fair here, but I think we're going to be evening that out later today. And I'm excited to see it. So now we had a secret meeting then.

You didn't show up. Now, we only, we only have six auto 12 movies because the other six, because we're the Midnight Boys, are coming from TV shows later in the year. We're going to be doing the same exercise for TV shows. Now, Van, I want to ask you, because I got beaten up by the Mint Boys. We haven't talked about what are Auto 12s for TV are.

Clone Wars, Rebels, Auto 12? I'm going to be real with you. First of all, I will say I do think Spider-Man, too, should have been an Auto-12. I'll just be honest with you. But this is okay, we'll talk about it. But that's fine. I wasn't there. I was sleep.

I was sleep. I slept 13 hours. I got back from New York. I don't know what the hell you guys are doing in the city charts. This is stupid. It's like, I'm like. It's a disgusting city. Van is old.

It's facts. Gotting. You know what I mean? Van after a certain time wasn't even like drinking. He was just like zoned out, just trying to like stay awake. I saw him nodding off. I was like, goddamn. I never nodded off not once.

He's a liar. Okay. You're a lie. But I didn't have off once. He's lying. Anyway, TV show 12s. I don't really know. I haven't thought about it.

I mean, I guess you could say that the Clone Wars are 12. Clone Warriors is definitely not a 12. I don't think. that it is. See, I said Rebels isn't a 12. Do you think Rebels is in a 12? I don't think Rebels is a fucking 19. I told you.

I told you guys are high. I think Rebels got down. We knew he was going to say this. All right. Avatar last airbender, Auto 12. Never saw it. So, like, I watched a little bit of it.

I couldn't stay with it. You bailed on it. You guys dig it. So I would say probably auto. But, like, for you guys, for the people I've seen it, I think the TV shows are going to be a little harder than the movies

because you might not get consensus of people that have seen the television shows, right? Not only that, it's just, there's such a smaller pool of fandom television shows that make it so much hard. It's like, it's harder to grade on a curve. Like, we were talking about this, like Game of Thrones, I think it's out of 12. Hell.

You know? It is. It is. It has to be. Also, you know what it might, you know what it might help to do with the TV shows? It might help to grade the individual seasons. rather than the entire show, right? Because Game of Thrones, to me, overall,

it would have to be an auto 12. It's the top of the top. Cultural impact, yeah. Right. But people are not going to want to do it because of the last season of the show. Man, look, Mike got in. He played with the Wizardsdom three years.

He still got in, you know what I'm saying? You got to look at the first six seasons like Mike in in Chicago, the last two seasons like Mike in All right, so for our TV, for our auto 12s for TVs, when we do this for TV, let's do seasons. I agree with the van that it's like, Game of Thrones tricky,

but we already officially have one in. Andor is officially in, season one. We already put that in. And or season one is an auto 12. Hell no. Joe means. But let me, let me, let me, let me give gentle pushback with and or season one.

Gentle pushback, because we all loved it. It was perfect television. The gentle. pushback, and I think we're going to litigate this when we talk about what's a 12 and what's not a 12, is that part of being a 12 is impact.

Impact in terms of how popular or how consumed something was is a part of the ingredients to being a 12, and Or didn't have that. You know, and or, I mean, I could look at seasons of Battlestar,

Lactica. I'm not even joking around and be like, this is some of the best television that you've ever seen before. But the question would then be how many people watch the show? You know what I mean? So, you know, I'm going to say that Andor is a, I would think it's an auto 12, but then you'd have to go back and see whether or not Andor made the impact on the audience that it would need to be, that would need to have to like be a 12, you know? That's fair. And that's why we're going to litigate it later this year. because I think for now, let's say Andor is a bubble 12 where we think it's a 12, but we're going to litigate it.

But for today's, but for today's show, what we're doing is we already told you what our auto 12s are. Now, then the Mint Boys, me, are going to argue for what we believe are our personal 12s

and try to convince the rest of the boys. So the rules for today, each person has brought four film picks, they think that deserve to be considered 12s. will go around the table, stumping for each film individually for about three minutes each. After each person presents their film, the remaining boys will vote as to whether or not it was convincing enough to make it into the Hall of Fame. A film only needs two votes out of three to make it in, and whichever Midnight Boy lands the most movies in the Hall of Fame by episode's end will be deemed the winner. All right?

We're going in for round one. van three minutes on the clock what is your first pick my first pick for a auto 12 is Superman the movie okay and let me tell you why I personally think that the reasons why this should be a 12 are so abundant that it doesn't even I shouldn't even have to defend it directed by Richard Donner starring Christopher Reeve Margo Kidder, Gene Hackman. This is the very definition

of the superhero movie. And I'm not just talking about one of these situations where it's the best because it was first. I'm talking about a movie that was able to combine the origin story of Superman. Okay? It's very tough to do in the film. Like,

the origin story with a story of him up against his greatest nemesis, Lex Luthor. It juggled Superman's his want for love, his want to be a hero, him losing his father, all of that.

Really the perfect movie about the Man of Steel hasn't been able to be reproduced. And it's like 50 some odd years ago that almost that the movie was made. Just an amazing achievement. The defining Superman, the defining Loislander,

defining Lex Luthor, I think the movie is perfect in every way. It was a gigantic hit, a huge hit, Marlon Brando as Jorrell. What the first gigantic superhero event of pop culture was Superman, the movie. And for that reason, I think it is a surefire 12. Has all the ingredients. Legacy, legend, box office, impact all of it. Superman, the movie.

All right, light pushback. Because I think everything you said obviously is accurate. and correct. My only pushback. Has it's aged like fine wine, do you think the fandom community has been able to really like support this movie still?

And what I mean by that is like, niggas really don't be talking about Superman the movie anymore. Like it's a baby boomer classic, which I reckon. That's all I'm going to say. What do you mean? Like, who doesn't talk about it?

I think a newer generation of filmgoers is not like, man, let me spin Superman the movie, which is more so about them than it is about the movie, but we're talking about impact. Has its impact been able to sustain itself, let's say in the past 15, 20 years? I'm not saying that that's what I believe, but that might be a pushback.

So this is what I would say about it, which is maybe why the impact hasn't sustained each other, say sustain itself in like a top of mind way. And it's not because of the movie itself, right? It's because the only reason why we go back and watch or talk about a lot of these other movies is because they play into larger fandom communities. So the reason why people still talk about a new hope is because the story of Star Wars has continued over decades and decades and decades. I'm not saying that, like, that movie isn't awesome or that empire isn't awesome.

It's just that they're foundational for stuff that we're still watching right now. which is why we talk about them in the past. The movie was made a long time ago, so it's not like too many people are going to be like, oh, it's Saturday night. Let's throw on Superman the movie. However, what I will say is by impact, it launched an entire studio,

and the impact of the film is felt every time you sit down and you watch a superhero movie, whether you know it or not. It was really proof of concept that this could be done on the big screen in the way that it's being done now. And for its time, making, the movie making $300 million in the mid to late 70s,

it's just an astonishing feat, an astonishing feat. So I would say that its impact is huge, whether we know it or not. I agree. And I also think that, like, Christopher Reeve and his, like, his betrayal of Superman has honestly become a curse because there's no, there hasn't been an actor who has been able in, 50-odd years to overcome that big, like what he did. And I would argue that in our popular consciousness,

we still look to Superman the movie as that's Superman. That's Clark Kent. Yeah, yeah. Preserved in the Library of Congress, the National Film Registry. This is a piece of unassailable American art, and I say it's a 12th. All right, so Mint Boys, any pushback?

No, I mean, Charles, you're spending it like it was Bob Coosy. You know, like they could go back watch Bob Coozy highlights. I'm playing devil's advocate. I'm not saying I believe that shit. I'm just playing Devil's Avenue. No, but, no, I mean, Van Mets's a great point. This is like the superhero movie. This is like the bedrock of why we have all the movies you have today.

Like, I think it's warranted to be in the Midnight Boys Hall of Fame. I'm voting yes. I'm going to vote yes. Yes. This is also a yes for me. This is one of the two things that I rewatched last night just to make sure that I would be able to endorse this as a 12. It absolutely is.

Like, unassailed. You loved it. I loved it. It's been a very long time. I absolutely did. We're out of delay here. No, I absolutely love this. And it's been so long since I've seen it.

And I keep forgetting how like, how quintessential it is. because when you think of what a classic Superman is, outside of like the 1930s Max Fletcher cartoons, this is it. And I couldn't agree more that this is probably the blueprint for everything that we've had near 50 years

now on. All right. Next up is my pick. This is a little bit of like, hey, we're doing it because Guardians of the Galaxy volume three is out. But I think Guardians of the Galaxy one, volume one, deserves to be

12. And the reason why is that I think that the third one really, really underline not only how special this trilogy is, but how I think you could argue it is in the same class of like Ironman and Black Panther in terms of just like these are turning point films for the MCU, proof of concept. Shout out to Joanna Robinson. Go pre-order her book on the MCU, wherever books are sold, she's done a great job of like really explaining how this was the biggest risk

that the MCU had taken up to that point, hiring a good director in James Gunn, but not a household name, somewhat with characters that the populace had never heard of. And I'm not even talking about Iron Man Captain America, Thor levels of like, yeah, most people

like, maybe, yeah. Rocker Raccoon, I remember when this was and now some like, they're doing a Guardians movie? What the fuck? All the Punditry was just like, are y'all sure? And I think without this movie being a success,

we don't get Infinity War. We don't get Endgame. I think aesthetically, there is pre-Guardians and post-gardians. You can see the movies in real time after Guardians getting weirder. The aesthetics really diving into the comic book

nature of this. Once you have a talking raccoon, in your universe, it's so much easier to be funnier and more vibrant. And I think that this is the blueprint. I chose this because this is really a game changer. This is kind of like, all right, not only is the MCU here to stay, but we are on a ride no matter how weird it gets. And personally, I just love this film.

So when I thought about movies last night, I thought about this film when I thought about what we're doing because I think this movie is the definition of an 11. Oh, 11? Yeah, I completely agree. I agree.

I think this movie is the definition of an 11. Like, I think this film and Ragnarok, to me, are cornerstone 11s. Like, the definition of 11. And by the way, to your point, Charles, one movie that certainly doesn't exist if this movie isn't made

is Thor Ragnarok without a doubt it doesn't exist, okay? For sure. But when we're talking about, we have to decide how our 12 Hall of Fame is going to be. Either it's going to be the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame

or it's going to be the NBA Hall. No, I don't do that too. People really, that's a very strong difference, yes. Now, I am going to make an argument for a movie here in a while that no one is going to argue with. And I'm doing it for laughs, okay? But my thing with Guardians is for everything that Guardians was able to do is guardians amongst the greatest of the great. Did it have the impact?

Did it even have the opportunity to have that impact? Because the characters themselves aren't characters that we readily, that have the history or the gravitas in the universe. I think Guardians is an achievement because it got every single drop of intrigue, fun, and heart out of characters that we didn't know like we knew

as well as we knew the Guardians, right? But as far as it being a 12, it's just missing that next scintilla of gravitas, meaning and importance, even with the third movie, to me,

that would get it over the hump of being a 12th. I just don't put it up there with a dark night. Only pushback, I do think that, like, generationally, I also think that,

like, go by, this is going to be foundational movie for fandom if you were like 7, 8, 9. Like, we forget the Guardian soundtrack is one of the best-selling albums of all time. You know what I'm saying? Baby Groot, I don't know.

Like, it's crazy. Like, I think we take it for granted how much Groot was a character that nobody knew. Yeah. And there was a good three-year stretch where you could not go anywhere without seeing baby-grut toys, baby-grut this, baby-grut that. So I get it. Like, I get why it

might be on the cusp of 11. But if we're talking about, if we're really talking about game changers, I'm just like, yeah, the MCU doesn't exist in its current form without Guardians. See, and to be real with you, I don't know that that's necessarily true. I think Guardians did a lot for the MCU,

but I don't know if Guardians is a foundational movie for the MCU in the way some of the other MCU movies are. Steve, I'm sorry, I'm stepping on Steve. Jump in. No, you're fine, you're fine. I had a very tough time because I knew that you were going to pick this and this is a, like, I know that this is a weird, like, metric to grade this on, but what Guardians represents going forward for the MCU is exactly what in 2014 it was kind of starting to depart

from because this came out two months, I believe, after Winter Soldier. This came out in the exact same year. Both of them were like a pinnacle of what the MCU could be. I don't want to grade those two movies against each other, but knowing that movies like Winter Soldier were starting to be on the decline. When we come out of phase two into phase three, we start to get more cosmic. We start to like lean outside of those things. I'm hard pressed to call this a 12 only because

we see so many things that the MC you could have done just immediately before. Again, it's fucking incredible what this movie actually came out with doing. But when I see it right next to Winter Soldier, when I see it right next to coming into

the things that we also have, like the end games, the Infinity Wars, it's just not there. I will say the dancing, the dance of Chris Pratt does, ding it. Oh, like the ending does ding it. Like I was like picking this and I'm like, if I get three

nose, like I can understand. Like, like, the last 15 is like a little rough. It is. But it's a cornerstone of an 11. Like, it works. It works. It's just to Steve's point, like when I look at my MCU list, this movie's like a top 10, top 12

any given day. But there are movies ahead of it. They're like for show 12s. You know, and I can't sit here and say that Gardens of Galaxy is on the same level as an Iron Man, right, or as a Black Panther. It's way better. You know what I'm saying?

You're smoking crack. I'm not doing this with you, Charles. I'm not. Iron Man, Lay off the drugs, bro. I'm serious. Oh, wow. I'm actually surprised.

Show me, like, really? Yeah, what? Iron Man is like a top three MCU film. What are we on? Top three? That's a, no, no, no, no, no, no. Top three, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on.

What are we doing? Quick clear out, quick clear out for this conversation. Not for me, but for this conversation. Okay, so Iron Man is a fantastic movie. Don't get me wrong. Iron Man is 12 to me, which we don't have a, on the auto 12. We don't have it on here.

But it should be. I mean, it should be, right? Which, by the way, that's a little bit of an oversight. We should have it on the auto 12s. Iron Man is a 12th to me, right? But part of that is because of the historical significance of the film. If we're talking about, like, how good the movie is, they've done that well.

I mean, like, I mean, Iron Man is dope. I love Iron Man. I love Iron Man. I think it hits you in the face with how fresh, with how tight, how ambitious the movie is. But Guards of the Galaxy is as good at as Iron Man, right?

Also, Iron Mid is not a top three MCU. Yeah. That's why. You're smoking crack. We can go to the list right now. They go do the list right now. Like, it's really, it's really simple. Wait, so you're telling me it's better that,

like, it's in the same conversation as Infinity War and End. Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't even just, you know what? I'm not smoking crack. It's just simple. It's just simple.

I see the movie. I see what the movie's done for the entire. Like, it changed how we, how we watch movies. Like, legitimately. The success of Iron Man literally shifted Hollywood. Like, what are we doing here? Let's, like, let's be smart.

It's use our brains. I agree. Jesus. Whoa, daddy. Whoa. I've had this argument like a bunch of times. I'm tired of some people. You're acting, you're acting like we're reducing Iron Man to bring up

a bad movie. It's not the case. I love Iron Man. I'm saying as a fitness. the MCU continued to push the envelope. So do you think, I mean, winter soldiers better than Iron Man, right? You're smoking, you're smoking dust.

No, no, no, no. Like, Joe. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. If you say that, Joe. You're smoking dust, bro. Winners, winter soldiers in that same tier, though.

I'm not, like, that's what I'm saying. Like, winter soldiers in that same tier. When are you're entirely different tier than that's no original iron. That's not true. That's not true. What are we talking about? What are we talking about? Wow. Okay.

That's nuts. This is wild That's much By the way I'm 10 toes down for the first Iron Man Like I don't understand I'm saying it's bad Joe Eud Well hold on no first of all

But nobody is saying that That's crazy That is nerd God damn blasphemy To talk shit on the first Iron Man I'm just What about Okay let's just take it back to what we're talking about

Gardens of the Galaxy the original Iron Man. What is better, so better about the original Iron Man to you, Jomey, than it is in Guardians of the Giles? Just as a movie, not as a game changer, but just as a movie. This as a movie.

So, like, I feel as if, like, the story of Tony Stark, like, going from, like, the, you know, douchebag and the whole thing. And following him, like, that through, like, the scenes with him and Bo Jensen, right like hey you know go live your life you know i'm i'm dying in this cave bro don't waste your life and him going through that building the the ironman suit that like how real it looks despite

the fact it came out in 2008 right i just spun the movie a couple weeks ago right then building the suit coming through with you know fighting uh what's his name ironmonger whatever and then to have like that ending where he's on the podium's like I'm no hero that would be ridiculous hey man stick to the script truth is I am Iron Man I'm like bro come on man like this is this is what it's about thank you for this is what it's about the brief synopsis of the movie yeah it I understand you forgot the villain's name which is very telling oh yeah take a second all right so let's move on Guardians of the Galaxy no no just okay just real quick before we go I Charles, this is your show.

But I do want to say, this is the part of it right here that's really interesting to me. No, this is this. We learned something about Jomey today. I'm learning a lot. Garden of the Galaxy does not make it in. Jomey, you have the next pick. What are you going with? Speaking of Iron Man, the, at the end of that film, Nick Fury shows up, you know.

By the way, you know, back. 2008, who knew that was the thing, staying at the end of the credits. McFury looks at my boy Tony Stark one time. He was like, hey, great work. I'd like to talk to you about the Avenger initiative. What? And to that fact, the movie I want to nominate for the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame is the 2012 movie The Avengers, right?

a huge risk at the time. We were like, ah, I don't know, we've gotten these solo films from Ironman, Thor, Captain America. The Hulk was a different Hulk, but we can skip that. Can this movie work? Will this movie, with all these characters, with all these backstories, can they find a realm in which the movie plays and doesn't seem overcrowded and overstuffed? And by God, they did it. they made movie magic, right? The movie is carefully crafted.

It starts off right from the rip. Loki's got the Tessaract and we're just pushing. We're introduced to their characters again. It feels like we haven't missed any time with them. And over the course of the film, they not only learned to become a team, they also learn become a family, guys. And they kick so much ass doing it.

I mean, you can, can tell everybody. I mean, we talk about the moment in end game when Cap says eventually assemble. But before we had that, we had Hulk turning to Cap and saying, that's my secret cap. I'm always angry. Punching the Leviathan and all the heroes gather around in that circle shot. Y'all know what I'm talking about. Y'all know exactly

what I'm talking about. Because that was it right there. And to hear the fanfare and see all our heroes fighting to save New York, that's special. There's no other, there's no way to say it.

The Avengers, Marvel's the Avengers 2012 absolutely deserves to be on the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame. It's weird. I'm inclined to vote, yeah,

but I feel like this is more of a 12 on cultural impact than it is on being a movie. Is that insane to say? I was going to say. say the same thing because I'm like, here's a thing. Jomey, I can't disagree with you about like, this was a moment. This was a game changer. But I think the thing that we are kind of interrogating now is like to be a 12, do we need to say it needs to be a game changer, but we also need to talk

about like the enduring quality of the movie because if we're going to be real, Avengers is the fourth best Avengers. That's not true. It's like behind end game. I'm going to lock. I'm going to Civil War, I think it is like, it's not even in the top three of its own trilogy. Like, it's its own quadruly, whatever you call it. That's incorrect. We're really also defining what makes an 11, also with what makes a 12 here. Here's the thing. I'm inclined to say that this is a 12, okay?

But what's happening now with Avengers is, I think the first thing that's happened, it's the first time it's happened on the podcast, which is that it was a solid 12, and then it got out 12ed. three different times that's what Charles no not three okay you're why okay

but definitely how not three different times I don't think that I don't think that you can compare Civil War to this movie I think it's I don't think it's all right two times

whatever you want to say and when you look at it it got out 12 by design right there the core group of OG Avengers in this movie and when we talk about the Avengers

and the other two movies we're literally talking about every good guy in them you. Right? You know what I mean? And so, like, I personally think that this is the most fascinating case that we've had

yet because if we do this, that means three out of the four Avengers movies are 12s. And it starts to become always starting to say that film, that team up films that just get bigger and badder are essentially what we're talking about when we're talking about a movie that is a 12th. It would almost make more sense to leave a movie out here than it would be to add another one. But I would agree with Jomey that if we looked at the criteria for what a 12 is and we looked at Avengers, it probably meets all the criteria. $1.5 billion. It certainly was a game changer, had never been done before, all of that stuff.

It's hard not to. The only reason why you wouldn't is because it got out 12ed. its own franchise. So, all right, then let me ask this. You said an important thing, since this is our own list, to put Avengers in, because I do agree, if we take Game Changer, if we take box office, if we take cultural and back, all that shit. And just the quality of the movie as well.

It's a 12, but I'm going to be real. I can't have three Avengers movies. It just looks weird. Like, that's a lot of Avengers movies. I mean, it's a lot of Avengers movies. It's the evolution of the Avengers movies. It's the evolution of the basketball player, right? You know, Bill Russell begets Kareen.

Kareen begets, Nikola Yokic. Like, that's how the game goes. You're going to skip Shaq and all the other brothers. There's only three movies. It's only three movies. I'm trying to get, I'm just saying I would rather take an Avengers movie out to put this Avengers movie in than have three Avengers movies. But what I'm saying is you can't.

That's a lot. You can't go back and I'll be honest with you. All the way honest with you? I personally think that if you were, that you could take Infinity War out and put the OG Avengers movie in. Because the beginning and the end of the Avengers journeys in that situation to me are more impactful. This is not more Infinity War. Hey, guys, Infinity War is better than Avengers 2012. It's a better move. No doubt.

Okay. It's a, it's better. But if we're talking about importance and importance and how the movies and what the movies really mean, then the OG Avengers is only rivaled in importance in the MCU by Iron Man. See, I do, very... I mean, that's true.

You pot it right now, Van, you pot. I think we all agree, Avengers deserves to be in it. Do we feel that we should take Infinity War out or should Infinity War? an end game basically be the same entry. Because if we're being real, they're both the same. You put them in like the dream team?

You put them in like the dream team? I agree with that. I mean, to be real with you, I think a lot of people, even when we did the wildly popular midnight court that people loved, I think that a lot of people made the point

that these movies are kind of one long film and therefore arguing against them, arguing them against one another is kind of like whatever. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. I'm interested in what Steve thinks. Again, it's a tough precedent to set if we get three Avengers movies in here

knowing that we can like kind of outmaneuver our logic as to which one is better out of those three. I would still vote yes for this because it fits all of our criteria. I can't not agree with that because all of those Avengers movies are as important if not more so than this. Also, I never understood

the argument that Infinity War and Endgame are like two parts of the same movie. Like, I never got that with anything. Like the movie ends, the movie's over, right? Congratulations. Like, when they first, if you were out, if you were out in the streets, when they marketed the movies,

it was part one and part two. And then they changed that show. They changed it. Yeah, but, you know? We know that those movies are basically one one. Yeah, but like, you know, Twin Towers is not like, I mean, it's not like, man, all the Lord of the Rings movies are one long movie. You know what I mean? Like, the movie ends and you're like, cool, let's watch the next movie.

You know, I never got that. Maybe I'm just, you know, tripping, but. Well, Avengers is in. So, Jomi, congratulations. Thank you. For last one and our round one. Steve. Steve, where are you going?

this pick is going to be all right I personally say this movie bows to no one it is the culmination of an insane undertaking by one Peter Jackson

the only movie I think in history to ever go 11 for 11 at the Oscars the movie that gave us near 20 endings but we loved them all the Lord of the Rings

Return to the King is probably the biggest cultural impact of a culmination of films that I think that people could say is kind of unimpeachable. I think that why I choose this final one is because it brings us everything. It brings us the promise of what those two prior films could be

and it elevates it to a degree that we've never seen in movies, I think before or since. And I really challenge, anybody to kind of think back to when they saw those movies in theaters. Joe, I know you saw them within the last calendar year for the first time, so you can't really sit this one out.

But I can't think of a more impactful and moving time at the movies in that era to come out of something like this. This was like before Marvel got really cooking, before anything that we could have seen like this, but this is like in the Harry Potter era, This is when, like, high fantasy books were kicking off. And I don't think this can ever be done again. This will never be as good as it is.

I leave it to everybody else. Vote this in as 12. All right. So here's the thing. Here's my situation. So, so here's my situation. I disagree with almost everything that you just said. I think in game.

Wow. But, but I can't deny. I never gave a fuck about it. I just didn't, you know. But shout out to my brother, Fig and Leaf and all of the other stuff. And Joanna, who have, I never have given a fuck. I watched all three movies. They're great.

Okay. I was ready to go. I was like, yo, man, it's time to go. You know what I mean? But having said all of that, it's kind of no denying that the movies of 12. Yeah. You can't, you know, it's not, I mean, I'll just be real. I'm just being for real.

Like your arms are tied to vote this as a 12th? No, I mean, if you just, it's like, it's like Luca. This movie is De Luca Donchich of, like, it's like Luca. Or like, it's like you, do I fuck with him? Not really. But you can't lie. Ekeball. You know what I mean?

This movie is, this movie is in every single way. Box office, culture, what it means to a fan base, Worldwide, it's a 12th. It's definitely a 12th. I just never fucking liked it. I never fuck with it at all. I don't get to fuck about it. You're not wrong, man.

Like, I can't argue with the box office. I can't argue with the Oscars. I can't. I just, there's something in my heart that's like, I don't give a fuck about return of the kid. Like, I just, I never have. I don't care about Lord of the Rings at all. Part of me is like, if this was like the big picture,

midnight induction ceremony, I'd be like, for sure. But for this, I'm like, to return of the king really have that pull in the fan of the space like that in 2023, I don't know. Yes. Yes, it did. They're talking about. 11.

11 at the aisle. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why would they cook me? I said the movie is definitely a 12. Why would I get cooked? Like, I'm saying the movie is a 12. I just don't give a fuck about the movie. I never gave a fuck about it.

and that's okay. I didn't even say it was a bad movie. I just don't. I never cared. And I like, I understand that like there is a big fandom around Lord of the Rings don't get me wrong.

But part of me is like the Lord of the Rings fan doesn't feel like modern nerd fandom. That only, that almost feels like something that predates it a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't even like,

motherfuckers, here's the thing. Muffolks aren't like, aren't like, hey, yo. y'all rings of power blah blah blah like rings of power wasn't the manned talking about rings of power was cheap that's different it's all the same it's all the same shit nobody's like

we ain't doing we ain't watching the hobbit movies like come on bro rings of rings of powers a two pack I ask you're telling me that nobody doesn't rewatch lord of the rings you're telling me that people don't do that shit year after year after year it is an adjacent fandom but also I have to say this caveat I have to say this caveat this is just for me for me and my niggas, we never gave a fuck about And that is my cross-to-bear.

So my brother is a huge Lord of the Rings person and always has been. And I get that. I understand the Lord of the Rings situation. Like I never gave a fuck about Harry Potter either. You know what I mean? I never, but here's the thing, though.

I actually liked the Two Towers better than any of the movies in the series. I just, for some reason, That's the one that I really liked. The original one, I just, the fellowship, I just didn't like it. I was going to sleep in there. I'm going to be real. But the two towers I really enjoyed and the Return of the King was cool.

But that doesn't matter. The movies are, the movies, what I feel about the movie doesn't matter. The movies are 12. The movie won all the Oscars. I mean, it can matter. It can matter. No, no, no. It won all the awards.

You have to be, you have to know. You have to be objective here. The movie won all of the awards. It was the second highest grossing movie of all time when it was released. The movie is a 12th. To me, it's a 12th. Jomey? No, it's definitely a 12th for me.

Like Steve said, I was bullied on a podcast by Mallory Rubin and Jason Manzukas to go watch the trilogy, the extended editions only. And I was like, hey, man, this thing pretty cool. And although I think I can't agree that, like, I probably don't agree that, like, probably enjoyed two towers more, like the battles of Helms Deep, come on. Doesn't get better than that. But Return of the King is probably like the pinnacle of the Lord of the Rings universe

in terms of film and content. So I got to rock with that as a 12th. I mean, I'll vote for it. It is a 12th. This is the weirdest thing ever. I just wanted to get some hate off. This is the weirdest? I want to get some hate off.

What's weird about it? It feels weird because it's like all of you feel like you have to. I mean, because like you can't always be. They have to. Yeah. Bill Russell was in the Hall of Fame with those 11 rings and every bees. Like, what are we doing to? Nobody wants to call this a 12, but like they have to.

I'm not, I think it's a 12. Nobody's, I'm not the one you met at. Don't. I think Willow is better than Lord of Shire. That's so fucking nuts. Now we just bullshit. No bullshit. No bullshit.

No bullshit. No bullshit. No bullshit. I would rather watch the Beastmaster. Like, seriously. Like, it's, it's a lot. I'm not even joking around, bro. I would rather watch the Beastmaster.

He controlled the little ferret and all of that stuff. I'm not even joking. But I just be for real. Like, it's a 12. Like, it's not my thing. Like, some things aren't people's things. But they don't mean that they're not a 12. And I'm not getting, if you like Lord of the Rings,

I'm not saying Lord of the Rings is whack. It just emotionally never hit me. Like, if you like these movies, if you like this, like the whole fan, I'm like, I get it. It just never hit me, but we're going to move on to round two for our inductees from round one. We have three. Superman, the movie, Avengers, Return of the King. We're going to round two.

Then I call this round three of these picks are some of the wildest. We're going to have a good time. It's time to go for it. We're having fun now. Van, please. Okay. For my round two pick, induction into the, the 12 Hall of Fame.

I like to nominate Star Wars Episode 3 Providger of Sith. I would just like to remind you guys that this movie made $868 million dollars to my dollars. It is the crowning achievement

of the first three films. It's a very important film. Okay. Oh, wow. It's an insanely important movie in Star Wars. It gives you... It's a game changer, you would say? I'd say it's a game changer. It gives you all in the same movie.

Anakin Skywalker's transformation into Darth Vader, the Mustafa duel, Order 66, the death of May's Window. When you look at the movie, the movie is incredibly consequential into the world of Star Wars. I get it.

I know you guys don't want. want to talk about how important the movie is, but it's kind of one of the most important Star Wars movies of all time. More important than anything in the sequel trilogy, okay? More important than any movie in the original trilogy. What? Besides Empire Strikes Back to me. Okay?

What? So, so, like, I'm just talking about importance. Is it more, so it's more important than a new hope. That's what you are saying. Well, a new hope stands on its own because it's the beginning of it. Now you backtrack it. No, no, no. But in terms of this story, this movie, to me, sets up a new hope.

It actually does set up a new hope. In terms of what happened to the galaxy, the destruction of the Jedi, Anakin Skywalker, losing it when he sees Obi-Wan hit the Superman post. almost far. All of that stuff is insanely important. where Leia goes, where Luke goes, Obi-Wan's quest to watch over Luke. All of this stuff is established

in Revenge of the Sith. You guys, we can talk about it. Anna can kill in the young ones. There's so much iconic shit. Are there some down parts in the movie? Sure. No. Yeah.

There's some things that happen in the movie that aren't so great. And I feel like it's a movie that had the original trilogy been better, we'd be better able to appreciate Revenge of the Sith for what it was. But to me, it's brought down, way down, I'm done after this, by the mediocrity of the other two folks. That's all I'll say. I look at it and when I take the birds eye view, this is a little bit of a reach, little plastic man, little fantastic, Mr. Fantastic. But when I take a bird's eye view, I feel like this movie should be at least considered as a 12th. All right.

Moving on to my pick. Like, I love you, Van. Like, I love you. You are my man. But this is the fastest, no, I will probably give in this. No, actually, there's one that Jomey has that is like even more egregious. It's not true. But there's no way.

There's no way this is a game changer. Like, absolutely. I get it. Okay. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to stand in. I'm going to stay in the fans corner for a minute before I vote no. This falls into a category where I like to call bad movie Good Star Wars.

Yes. And that movie is wonderfully flawed, I'll say, wonderfully flawed. I think as far as actual cultural impact, he's right. I don't think that there's been a more memed, more quoted, more like impactful stretch than the final like half hour of Revenge of the Sith. And I'm being serious. Like there's a genuinely important thing happening at the end of this trilogy. And I seriously think that this owes a lot because I genuinely have to fall in love with the way that the Wrench of the Sith ends. All of its flaws aside, that's definitely there. And I do agree with Van on that. Impact and memeability aside. Yeah. That being said,

respectful, no. And we're doing a midnight. Not a 12 for me. A midnight meter Hall of Fame for like moments. There are many moments in this movie that would be an automatic tour. Your new empire.

Like, come on. Yeah. But nah, man. Also, how they did Mace in this movie, like, you automatically get to take the couple points. I love you.

And here's the thing. This probably makes the hood. Like, it's probably the Hood Hall of Fame. Like, man, you know, we rocked with this one. Yeah, we rock with. I mean, honestly, like, this is the only

I mean for me personally this is the only Star Wars film like Aubrey watch on its own you know like I throw that thing on and be like yeah I'm watching Revenge of the Shiff right now because it's you know I'm going to say the funnest but I enjoy the most

it's silly it's ridiculous it is but like Steve said that last part once Obi-Wan stands Superman pose on the on the thing it started going that movie start going You know, but I'll be really chow. The movie started there. I'd be real, child.

The Duku gets killed a whole bunch of great things happen to a movie. This movie is way better than the return of the king. It's not even close. I mean, I'll be honest, man. I would get mad. I would get mad for real right now. I would rather watch Revenge of the shit every single day than return of the king. I'll be just real.

I'm not saying it's a better movie. I'm just saying it's a more entertaining. watching a movie. Yeah. It's an entertaining movie. Okay. It's an entertaining movie. It's so mad right now.

I'm not mad. I'm just like, you're gonna, you're getting up, you're getting up there. So I'll assume it's one out of four. This is the only vote I get. This is not, y'all not fucking. Yeah. It's not. Sorry.

Sorry. So I'm going to go with one that this movie, I think, honestly, is easily a game changer. This resurrected one of our finest actions. star's career, and I honestly think that action movies just in general are in a healthier place after this movie. I'm going with John Wick. If we're talking box office, maybe hasn't made the most out of the other films on this list, but this was budgeted between 20 and 30 million, and the first one makes 86, which is crazy considering how small the movie is. We're now on what the fourth John Wick. We're about to get our first spin-off. We are about to get a

another TV show. I think that just this movie to me, I remember it just as like a movie being like this is the ideal of what I want from action in modern times.

Seeing like the gun, uh, the gunfoo, the story of the puppy and how much it like hit me. This was actually when I think cultural impact, you couldn't go anywhere without people being like, yo, did you see this movie? like the puppy, da-da-da-da-da.

I just think John Wick is one of our finest achievements in action. That's all I have to say. All right. So you can go a lot of places without people saying, have you seen the movie? Because the movie only made $86 million. So this is the thing. I love John Wick.

I was floored and still continue to be floored by some of the achievements that they have. We just can't have an $86 million movie to be a $12. It just doesn't have. Like to me, that piece of it, I would more so say that John Wick 4 is closer to what would be a 12 in the original film. Yeah. I'm serious. I'm serious. Like, Johnwick, Johnwick's fun.

You think John Wick 4 is a better movie than the original Johnwick? No. But in terms of like what it is that we're talking about, I, think that movie is, I don't think the original John Wick is a big enough film to me. It's a game changer. I don't know that it's a game changer. I don't know that it's a game changer. I mean, it's a, the movie is so stylized

to me, the movie is so stylized that, you know, nah, not necessarily because, I mean, I don't know, I don't know that it's a game changer. It's a very stylized, sleek. I think I kind of... I don't disagree. I kind of think that it is. No, I don't know, man.

I don't know. But, I mean, to Vance point, if the movie only made $86 billion, yeah. Here's the thing. We got to have a... Okay, projected budget for John Wick was 20 to 30 million.

That's a success. That's a rousing. And we're not even counting. Like, let's say, like, this was still a surprise. Like, this was supposed to be a direct to D.E. movie, I think, at one point, if I'm remembering correctly,

we're not even calculating what that shit did in DVD sales streaming. Like, it's, I think it's in- Everybody's seeing John Wick. Yeah. Everyone has, and that's what I think, and when I talk about Game Changer, how many action movies do you see

even now that you're like, that's just John Wick? So they, they are just doing their version of John Wick. That is very true. There are a lot of copycats. Well, I would say... It's its own John Wright.

Hold on. I would say, is John Wick just doing the John Wick version of Taken? Well, I think... I mean, fair, but what kicks off that sort of thing better? I would say that I could make an argument that it's actually taken. I could... I can make an argument... I literally...

I've had this conversation before. I can make an argument that if taken is never made, that John Wick doesn't get made. Right? It's almost the, it's so I can make an argument that, and I've talked to people about this before, that when you're talking about old,

a guy who hasn't really been in the game for a long time, that is activated and then goes and uses those skills to fuck people up, you got John Wick taking an equalizer. Now, you know, you look at the time between the two films and, because I can make an argument that, I mean, the taking sequel sucked, but if taking comes out during the time of social media,

then maybe taking is John Wick, you know what I'm saying? So, I mean, I get everything that we're saying is true, and John Wick is that type of an important, it's that big of a deal. Like, a lot of people, I was joking earlier when I said, a lot of people didn't see it. Everybody knows John Wick. It's a part of culture.

It's a part of the whole deal. I just don't think the original John Wick could be a 12th. I just think it's too small of a movie. No matter what I really do. I think it's too small of a movie to be a 12. We're talking about like what a 12 is. Damn, this is wild. This is bad.

Too small of a movie. Jomey, what's your vote? I'm curious. You got to think, again, we thought to think about it is at the criteria that we're talking about. You know, cultural impact, you know, the movie itself, box office, you know, game changer. and I guess it does hit a lot of those things. But again, 86, $86 million. You know what I mean?

Like, it's tough. No first team, all NBAs, no, no, no, no, no, all defense. You know what I'm saying? We're looking at a dude who performed, but like at the end of the day, didn't bring in the bread, you know what I mean? Like, that's just, that's what it is. Didn't bring in the, it's hard. No, it's fine.

This is wildness. We let Return of the King in. And we're not letting John Wick in. John Wick is a way better movie. Again, John Wick. It's not even close. It's not even close between Return of the King and John Wick. It's not even close, bro.

I mean, he's right. Hold on, hold on. Let's do this. Just win-mill Duncan on Return of the King. Let's do this. Seriously, though. So let's bring in John Wick's DVD sales. Let's see.

I'm doing it right now. I'm bringing in John Wick's DVD sales. The total estimated domestic video sales, for the movie is $48 million. Okay? So, I mean, like, so that does change it. You add the 40s to the 40.

So the math of 48 to the 80? That to the 86, that's what? That's almost, you're almost hitting 150 for a movie that was budgeted at between $20 and $30 million. Look, I understand. That's interesting. I get it. And John Wick does have a huge, huge cultural.

impact. Everybody knows John Wick. I would say that part of that is because that's on the strength of the sequels. And I really do think that John Wickford is, if I was going to take a movie that I think that should be in this conversation, it would be John Wick for. It really... There's no way John Wick for is better than the original. And I like John Wick for. I'd be real with you, bro. It's the second best John Wick, but... It's... Okay. Well, I mean, yeah, it's as good to me, but whatever. I can't in a conscious vote for John Wick, it's too small of a movie. I get it, though.

I understand it. What do the rest of the crew say? I vote yay. I'm gonna kind of agree with Venn. So, yeah, just... This is what we do. Since we're split, this is what we'll do. If y'all think John Wick deserved it, let us know,

because this is egregious. All right. Damn, Charles is really hurt. I'm real, like, this is... Return of the King got in. That's your return to the King. It's just like... At what point, what are we...

I can't believe that's like the sticker point. We're turning of me, kidding. Like, one of the greatest films ever made a billion dollars. With all the awards. They're like, fuck that. I don't fuck with it. You know, just think, what are the biggest films? 11 for 11 at the Oscars.

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Watch only on Prime. All right, Jomey, what's your next thing? Oh, yeah, oh yeah. Get this ludicrous. No, no, no, no. Y'all don't understand. So, you know, they hit us up.

They say they want to have the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame induction. And I'm thinking I'm going through my movies. And I got some coming later that I think are like for show 12s. But I realize that you can't have a fandom Hall of Fame and not have one character in it. Like, there's no way to wait. There's no way around not having this franchise and one specific character in the franchise not represented. in the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame. And everybody in fandom,

open shot, fade of the universe on the line, the Martians have the death beam pointed at Earth, you better hit it. I want Optimus Prime. And so, for my pick, I'm going with not the Transformers movie from the 80s,

because I wasn't live then. I wasn't my job, you know what I'm saying? I'm not going to encroach on Van's turf. I'm going with 2007 Transformers from Michael Bay. Now, y'all are like, what? I can hear y'all already. I can see the thumbs and the fingers typing. Jomi, that's crazy.

What are you on? And I'll tell you what I'm all, man. I'm on the film that launched a billion-dollar franchise. Now, this one only made $709 million at the box office. Okay? This one only gave us darker the moon. bumblebee look i i know i know it's a stretch i know i'm reaching here but we cannot in good conscious have a fandom hall of fame midnight meter and not have octopus prime in it i just that

to make no sense to me you know the transformers are a pivotal point of fandom so we can keep this shit yeah we got to you know i'm saying y'all got it you know you're not you're not locked in This is what I'm seeing. Let's be honest, right? Outside of a movie, right? I thought of a movie. This is the best Transformers movie. Live action show movie.

Yes or no? Simple question. Yes or no. Yeah. I mean, because the rest of them are dog shit, but that doesn't make this. If that is the fucking Godfather. If that is the bar, Jomey, then yes.

I asked the yes and no question. This is more than yes or no. I say yes or no question. Okay. Right. So yes. Right. Clearly the best Transformers movie we've seen.

Y'all got a lot. in, all right? When, when Opta's prom show up to Earth, right? And he goes to the, he goes to the alleyway with Sam and he's like,

are you ladies man, 217? Come on, man. You know what I'm saying? When, when they fight, when they, when they in the,

Hey, Jolmi, how about this? Fuck no. We got to, like, Come on, bro. Joe,

me, no, bro. The fight of the five carries on. This makes Revenge of the Sith look like Casablanca, man. All I'm saying.

All I'm saying is, you're talking, look, it's not me. y'all deal with Optimus Prime of your own time. I just feel like it's crazy that we're going to have a Hall of Fame. He's not going to be in there. That's nuts.

That's nuts. Steve, what's your... No. No respect. No respect. All right. This will probably get a know as well. Might get a know, but I need to go to bat for this one real quick.

Coming from an era of superhero films, particularly Batman films, influenced from the early 90s and onward, this was a genuine risk. This was a, in my opinion, a definitive story for the character of Batman, and I think that this one cemented a iconic performer in one of Kevin Conroy. I think Batman Mask of the Fantasim, as big of a risk that it was and as big of a, you know, possible bomb that it was at the box office, it cemented the viability of what great animated storytelling can be for superhero films and fandom.

I think Kevin Conroy is my personal favorite Batman. I know that that's very debatable and it's not going to be getting a good reception here. It's a definitive Joker story. It's a great femme fatale performance. It's one of the best Batman stories that's ever been graced on the silver screen. Batman Mask of the Fantasim to me is a personal 12. Okay. I think I love that movie.

I think it's great. It's just not a moment. You know, that's fair. This belongs in the Midnight 12 Heart Hall of Fame where I'm like, I get it, like, in your heart, this is the 12. Yep. You want to hold it like a precious little bird and give it a nice little kiss. It really is really great. But like, you know, if you compare this even to what we auto 12 Spider-Verse, did we?

Yeah. So compare it to Spider-Verse. It's like not going to be incredible. I mean, sure. But I want to take this time for us to actually talk about how much we love Batman Mask of the Fantasms and how. and how consideration here is even like is a win for this movie that has endured over 30 years and has been uh has become to be a staple Batman movie not a 12 but it but in terms of what this movie means to all of us I think it's an inspired pick Steve I'm not gonna lie

yeah it's a great pick I'm not like I can't bash this movie I think if we're like if we're doing like the whole thing of like box office like if we're digging John quick. All four quadrants. It might not hit it all. It might not hit it all. I need to give it up here. But I'm giving you a point on the board just for like putting it in here, having a great

conversation about like a truly transformational tip. Dang, I don't know how this kind of respect for Transformers. That's crazy. You see that, Jome? Humble and defeat. I'm a hate it. I'm not to tell you. So round two was not a great showing for anyone.

There are no movies. Nobody got in. Was not expecting this. But okay. Round three, Van, this is an easy one. Where are you going with? Round three, I am going with the Keanu movie that, to me, should be on this list. His other hyper-iconic action performance as Neo in The Matrix.

To me, a slam dunk 12. We have the box office at nearly $500 million. We have the cultural impact, literally changed the way all other films are made. Like the science fiction, the love story, the Matrix is truly visionary filmmaking. And introducing an entire world of lore, dripping, dripping, dripping with these, almost cyber-conjured questions of who we are, what we are, what we have to do, has endured for 20 years,

for better or for worse. But The Matrix is one of those singular times where you sit down in a movie theater, not knowing what you're going to get, and you come away, blown away to a degree that you keep going back, trying to re-access that moment that you first saw it. I'm going with the Matrix

the original 1999 film as a 12th. Yeah, it's an easy. I don't have anything like Snap to say about this. I'm not going to say it's one of the most important movies ever made.

It's a great film. I don't know. It's an easy like, yes. Like, Matrix, great. Now, Matrix Resurrections then. Jesus Christ. We're not doing this.

Like, we can't. Hey, listen. It's not the worst. It's not the worst. It's not the worst. Matrix movie. It definitely easily is. You guys got to understand the lore.

No, it's not. You guys got to understand the lore. I'm not doing homework to understand a movie, man. I stand for the Matrix Reserations. I stand for Cloud Atlas. Sometimes the Wachoskins are just, they're doing too much for y'all. Y'all don't understand them. You're not conscious like they want us to be.

Yeah, this is what niggis used to say about Common. Back in the day before Common got to Kanye, you'd be like, yo, bro, we was listening to All No Limited Cash Money and niggas would be, you be, you know, y'all listen to some comment, we'd be like, man, turn that goddamn shit off. I'm trying to hear all that shit. Like, y'all niggas just don't understand them. I was like, nah. Like, turn that motherfucker.

This is what, like, shout out to comment who was one of the most talented people ever to walk the face of the earth. But niggas used to put on that comment and we used to literally do like this. Get that shit out of here. This is what we used to do. They could put that motherfucking BG on right now. You know what I'm saying? Oh, wait.

Get that shit out of you, man. I have to ask you, back in the, the day was Common scaring the hose music? A little bit. And really, do you know that Common had all the hosts? Common really, Common is amazing. And by the way, this all changed up. Common got to good music. The music became

a little bit more accessible. We're like, God damn, we'll go back. It's really great music. It's a fantastic. No, comments a legend. It's a legend. It's one of the greatest ever. But back in the day, you come in the party, put that fucking common on. If you don't put that motherfucking little Wayne on, that block is hot, Get that shit out of here.

That niggas just don't understand. And that's kind of how people feel about the Wachowski sometimes. Matrix's Resurations. That's on that common shit. But yeah, the Matrix is in for me. All right. Steve, Jomey, Matrix?

Obviously, yes. Amen. Yes. I saw it in college. It was like an assignment. I was like, I don't watch the movie, bro. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to understand, bro. And I was locked in.

And maybe watched the other two movies. I was like, ah, a mistake. Should have done that. You know how I know. The Matrix was, like, hitting like that back in the day. I remember when my parents went to go see that movie, and it was like they were changed people like, yo, we're all in a simulation. I'm like, mom, dad, I just want my cinnamon toes crunch.

Please. So the Matrix is automatically in the Hall of Fame. Now, this one also in automatic yes. Guys, billion dollars. One of the most singular performance. in all of movie history. Can anybody say with me, you merely adopted the dog?

I was born in it. Molded by it. What the hell is that? Oh, fuck. That's a game. All right. You can't all be crazy. Ryan, okay?

I'm doing my best. Hey, you made your seat. Come on, man. You made an enemy out of me with Return of the King, baby. Your spirits or your body. Come on, me. Here's the thing.

Night Rises is arguably, I think, the second best Batman movie of all time. Tom Hardy's performance as Bing belongs in the Library of Congress. This movie has it all. It has action. It has intrigue. It has romance. Christopher Nolan went out with a fucking bang. Y'all can't tell me when they weren't doing the chance in the fucking pit.

You weren't like, this is the birth. of cinema. Like this is for the real heads out here. Okay. Show me, don't even like because you were talking about fucking Transformers. I don't want to hear this.

We're spurs of cinema. Oh my God. Of cinema, okay? The real heads, no. All right? This has been jerry rigged this whole thing against your boy. But the Dark Night rises unimpeachable.

I don't want to hear any words about this movie. Except, yes, Charles, it is truly excellent, okay? Dark Night Rises. No, Charles. It's not getting in. I can't have it. I can't have it.

Y'all are leaders, bro. No, man. Y'all are. Listen, listen, listen, listen. If we, if this movie was literally just Tom Hardy doing Bain, then yes. Because that is equal parts awesome and terrible.

This motherfucker's shot up, like, Batman me shut off the lights and Bain laughed at him motherfuckus face. Like, dog, this is the horridest shit I've ever seen. Y'all are. Oh, I have to be honest with you. That scene is not a 12. That scene is a fucking 24.

That scene, that scene might be, I'd have to think. That scene might be better than anything in the dark night. Nah, because you got him riding on a bat pod and the whole not. It's a top three Batman. But that, but that's, that scene is fantastic. Like, fantastic. But come on, man. It's the weakest entry of that trilogy to me.

Wow. Yeah. I think Batman Begins is buried in the Dark Night Rise. I think Batman Begins is buried in The Dark Night Rise. There's no way. But, look. It's crazy to think Batman Begins is underrated. I think so.

It's not underrated. That movie hasn't aged as well as the other two. I think it has. I think Batman Begins is great. But like my whole thing. Yeah, it's really good. But my thing is I like the Dark Night Rises. It just is too imperfect for it to be a 12th.

I really like it. I really like it. It's too imperfect for it to be a 12th. And Hathaway's Selena Kyle, amazing, genuinely, like really good. But, like, there's a lot going on in that that's, like, it's overlong. That whole bomb thing is kind of stupid. How did my survive? Right?

Like, I don't know. It's like, it's Batman, Joe. It lands into the whole, like, Christopher. I know, but it lands into that whole, like, Christopher Nolan-y gimmick of just like, oh, my God, it's that, like, weird prestige magic trick ending that he keeps doing in all of his movies. But I, there's a lot to love. But I, like, that's going to be a no for me. This is egregious.

Like, it's, you know, damn well, this movie ain't no motherfucking child. Like, you know what I need to call Chris Ryan. Like, this is a damn well, this movie ain't no motherfucking 12. This is a perfect movie. And I won't take this. A perfect movie? It's definitely like 25 minutes too long. Just go to your pick.

Just go to your pick. I'm like, have we talked about the weird Robin thing yet? Great. Yeah, that was so dope. Y'all can't, all right, this was before the MCU shit. Y'all can't act like when he was like, this is my name. I was like, all right, this is dope. When he finds the cave?

I was like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. When he finds the cave, that's dope. Like, yeah, come on, man. When he, when he fires the cave, that's dope. But, like, you should use your original name. Bain blows up a football field. Like, that made me scared, bro. I'm not going to lie.

The most unbelievable thing about the movie is Heinz Ward runs that thing back with the thing exploded. I'm like, Heinz-Wort was like 35 at that point. No shot. He's still getting out. He was on his giddyup. No shot.

Tell me, what's your pick? My pick is a film that, you know, we talked about Trilogy's last week and this movie is one of the most, one of us special films in terms of being the best film

as the last film in a trilogy. I don't want to say came out of nowhere, but I definitely remember people, you know, saying, like, oh, this movie's coming out, it'd be cool, you know, and then just, oh, God, this is one the greatest superhero films they've ever seen.

And then me, myself, going there and being transformed and changed. Of course, I am talking about Logan. Hugh Jackman's, you know, at that time, farewell to the character of Wolverine. He's old.

He's grizzled. And you're like, man, can this dude even fight? And not only does he kill people. And I got legit rated R way that you're like kind of shocked to see Wolverine after being seen all these PG-13 films, he becomes so-called father. Not so-called father, an actual, a dad while also, you know, taking care of, taking care of our guy, Professor X, and seeing both of their demise in this film

is just something that is touching and gets you right in the chest. And so I don't think there's any discussion. I think this is an automatic choice. Logan is a 12th. This is an 11. This is like a bubble. It's an 11 for me too.

It's not a game change. That's the thing. It's the game change. I go to show me on this. That is unbelievable. Wait, all right. We got to vote. So what's in the running?

John Wick, Logan, yeah, let's leave it up to the fans. Like this is, I feel bad. I feel bad being like, it's, like, it's an, like, if you're going to ding Guardians of the Galaxy as like, I think you have to put Logan in the same category where it's a, It's a great movie. But the superhero landscape,

there's not a bunch of Logans out there. And to be fair, I think that this gave Hugh Jackman like a finally great performance for a movie that he, like, earned. Like, he only had like maybe two, three of those in the entirety of his time as Wolverine and the, with the numerous at-bats that they gave him.

Not to say that this was his fault, but like saying that like the movies that had led up to this point, finally, this kind of felt like a roar of a relief that like somebody actually landed the plane for the X-Men rather than like actually impacting and moving things forward. Like nothing at nothing actually was gained after the fact from Logan in my opinion. Like they finally just made a great one. And it was like the end until the next one,

which will be coming back in dead. three. So, I don't know. Like, the, the cultural impact part of it, like, I keep thinking about, like, what came before and what will come after. Well, okay. So, no, I don't know if, I don't know what's going to, like, emulate this coming forward. Okay.

So this is a couple of things here for me. So there are a couple of movies here, and I want people on Twitter to kind of chime in with movies that we haven't really talked about. I would say that there are a couple of movies that I think are deserving. to be in this conversation. X-Men Days of Future Past. I'm not saying that these movies are 12. I'm just saying X-Men Days of Future Pass, X-2,

a couple other films that maybe people might talk about. And then I'm talking about the X-Men universe here. And then Deadpool, which is a movie that we haven't talked about, whether or not it's 12 or not. And then Logan. I would look at movies like Deadpool and Logan as both being game changers in terms of showing what the R-rated superhero movie can accomplish.

and Deadpool came before Logan, right? But even though it did, Logan still hit a higher, it still executed at a higher level. It hit a higher mark to me than Deadpool did. I think Logan is a 12th because of everything that the movie had to do. It's essentially the end of those X-Men, but it was able to do it in this really violent,

kinetic, compelling way that everybody fucked with. For it to make as much money as it did, let me look at the box office on Logan. It made about $600 million. $600 million. I think at one time it was either the highest or the second highest

a grossing R-rated film of all time. Deadpool probably accomplished a little bit more than Logan. It's a little funnier, but y'all, in terms of quality of film, impact all of that stuff, I think Logan, I would have to go for Logan being the 12. I'm really interested to see what the audience. Does it really have cultural impact

in the same way that like The Matrix does? I don't think it does actually. Like I think it's like a top tier comic book movie. There's a difference between being the same and having its own. And I don't know if its impact is

quite as significant as I would have liked it to push it over the edge for me for a 12th. nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay. nominated for Best Adaptive Screenplay at the Academy Awards. To me, like, if we're just talking about game changers, I do really see where you guys

are coming from. If we're talking about that. But I would really like to know what the audience thinks about Logan. Because I actually, I consider Logan to be a 12 movie. I don't know if it changed much, is what I'm thinking. Like, it's still like every metric that makes this a movie is amazing.

and I can't say I can't emphasize that enough but like from what came before I'd argue Deadpool had more of a cultural impact. I mean it's the end it's the end it's the end story right yeah it's an end story of a shitty trilogy

though like no no it's the end story of the X-Men in my opinion yeah like it in my opinion even even though Dark Phoenix is after Logan right it to me

it's the end story of the X-Men At this point, Xavier has killed all the X-Men. We bury Professor X. We bury Wolverine. It's essentially the end of the story as we knew it. You know, but, but I mean, I... Until he comes back in Multiverse of Manus and until he comes back in... They might actually even brought him back in...

No, that was after that. But no, I get what you guys are saying now. I really do. I get what you guys are saying. This is not a saying that Logan is a shitty movie for everybody. It's like, y'all going to pick... By no means. By no means.

It's just, it's on. So I think Steve and I are in agreement. It's a no. Van gets a yes. We're taking it to the fan vote. So far in the fan votes, we have John Wick and Logan. Right.

And we miss Deadpool on here? Can we have a little quick conversation about whether or not Deadpool was a 12th? Nobody nominated Deadpool. I would say that Deadpool is an 11 for the inverse reasons that Logan is an 11. The movie doesn't go quite as far. far as quality is concerned for me, but as far as cultural impact and what it actually meant

for movies going forward, it exceeds the bar. Like that was made on a dime for what it's returned. So, Deadpool was a good movie. But it returns and its actual impact. Not a great movie, but it opens up the rated R superhero movie, at least what we're talking about. Cool. One more before we get out of here.

One more, before we get out of this, I just want to throw another one that we didn't just just out there that we didn't out. Blade. Has to be. To be considered. Gotta be 12. Has. Because here's the thing.

If we're putting, if we're putting Superman in there off of the, like, what it did, you have to put blade it. Just in terms of like cultural impact, what it does for black, like black leading men, black superheroes. Didn't,

didn't make a hundred million dollars domestic. No. It didn't make. It was a success. It was a success. Come on. Like, come. Like, didn't make.

I'm just telling you. It didn't make a hundred million dollars domestic. So you're saying it's a no. It's, it's, Yeah. I think that I, I, I personally think Blade is, is an 11. Wow. We're crowning a lot of 11s today.

What about Blade 2? Oh, Blade 2 is my shit. No, we're not doing this right now. Yeah. All right. Steve, let's end round three with your pick. Mm-hmm. All right.

There's another pick from the heart, but I got a, I got to stump again. Andy Circus has made a ride or die from me because of one of my favorite trilogies and one of my favorite franchises and kind of all of fiction and fandom the Planet of the Apes series has a very special place in my heart. I've seen every single one of those movies.

I love the Planet of the Apes films. And what Andy Circus and Co. did at dawn of the Planet of the Apes. This is the second, this is the sequel in the Andy Circus trilogy of Apes films was genuinely awes. inspiring to me. I don't think that there's ever been a more perfect story in the planet of

the apes universe. I think the antagonist of Coba and the questions and philosophy that is hurled between Caesar and Cobra is wonderful. I think that there's an amazing performance from Gary Oldman here. A trailblazing like achievement in motion capture that was like you're going to see in the likes of The Last Jedi and onwards. I think that this is a incredible, incredible movie. Not talked about as well enough. Probably not. But again, I got to put this on people's radar as what I believe is to be a personal

12 of mine. So you're talking at my heartstrings, man. Is this a fandom movie? I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I was fucking talking apes in it.

What are we doing it? I don't think it is. There are comics about this. There are so many, there are books about this. There are so many other things. There's a archie comics. We don't talk about nudity in here.

Yeah, like, ooh. No, with the counterpoint. I don't, I don't know that it is. I don't think this is a fandom. I'm with you,

Steve. I can't vote yes just because it doesn't have the cultural impact, but this is like a perfect movie. So like, I'm with you in solidarity, but it just.

It's one of me and Kalika's favorite. I mean, we watch it all the time. I love the film. I don't think it's fandom. That's my thing. I don't, that's the only thing about,

I don't think it's fandom. Like, I thought about that. It's sci-fi, though. You wouldn't put this in the version of genre or like, like, you wouldn't call this like a prestige film. You wouldn't call this like a thing like that. I mean, I personally would call it a prestige film because it's an amazing movie, but. Interesting. Yeah, so I guess, is anything science fiction fandom?

I think. We could say so. So then 2001 to Space Odyssey. would be fandom. But there hasn't been like a franchise. There hasn't been like a like multitudes of different types of mediums and stories that reflect on that. I would put Planet of the Apes in fandom because there have been multiple different mediums and iterations of that story that have carried on through decades. Because okay, okay.

I put it because you don't think Indiana Jones is fandom. I think Indiana Jones is fandom. I don't think Indiana Jones. I don't think Indiana Jones is fandom. I think it's an adventure story. Well, that's going to be a weird conversation when we have an instant reaction pod to it. I mean, I really don't think it is.

I don't think Indiana Jones is fandom. Is Fass of the Furious fandom? I think so. No, not to me. It's a franchise. Have we covered FASA Furner Fier's on here ever? No. Yes, in the early days of the show.

Did we? I don't think Fassettor the Furious is fandom. I don't. I really don't think that it is. But I see why people might, I could be wrong, whatever. I think this is a great movie. I don't think it's a 12.

I think it's a fantastic film, though. It's a personal 12. I'll be honest with you. Apes together, strong. All right, so that's not getting in. So the only inductee we have from round three is the Matrix. Now we're going to round four. What do you got, then?

Batman 89. Tim Burton's original Batman movie. it is the you guys weren't outside okay quite literally I was not outside fan is oh yeah you guys weren't outside

this at the time was the biggest thing in the world it was one of the highest gross in movies of the world adjusted for inflation it's the second highest gross in DC movie ever or the second or third

um it if Superman the movie was the birth of superhero films, then Batman 89

was the defibrillator on it because Superman fell on hard times. But this film is legendary in every way. The soundtrack to this movie is a 12. The portrayal of the Joker is a 12. The artistic, the dark, gritty,

Frank Miller inspired Batman Vicky Vale, Kim Basinger. This movie is cooking in every single way. The pinnacle of a monoculture experience, it's everywhere during its time.

It's in your face on television. There are posters. It's at McDonald's or Burger King, whichever one it was. Prince is on the radio. You are completely enthralled and enraptured. And the movie is now going to get a shot in the arm in relevance

because of the Trouble Flash movie that's coming out pretty soon. But without this, without this, an entire decade of the 90s may not see a superhero revival because this movie comes and then it makes way for all kinds of new stuff. Batman 89 to me is A-12.

So here's the thing. No matter what you say about the movie, and I have my qualms, the movie. This film literally changed how things are marketed and how like the industry works in terms of like toy boxes or like lunch boxes and like putting the the movie like he said on McDonald's and like it was everywhere. And it literally changed how consumers interact with film like on a on a macro level. Like they teach you stuff in business school. Like, it's, it's insane how much this movie affected the, like,

the consumers at the time until you couldn't, like I said, you could not go anywhere without Batman, Batman, Tim Burns, Batman. So on that strength alone, I'd have to see it inducted into the, I mean, my only thing, my only thing is like, I only got one geriatric vote in me in terms of like, yeah, I know you a legend, but also like Superman got it, like, superman got it, like Superman got my slot for like, I'll vote for this. Yeah, but Batman 80 knock, like, it's good. I can't argue

with anything. It's a, like, I can't put like, nah. It's like, I think you gotta have it. I think you gotta have it. It just seems very baby boomerish to me where we're like, yeah, it's, it's legendary. And I'm like, all right, cool. Like, I get it. It's the reason we get a new Batman movie every five years, though. I understand that, but also like,

there's been better. Batman. So this ain't even, if we're being honest, this ain't even like a top three Batman movie at this point. I think it definitely is. I think this movie is better than the Dark Night Rises. Hell no. I think it is. I think this movie is better than the Dark Night Rises. We can have that discussion

another day. I don't know about all that. Oh, yeah, man. What about all that? What? This isn't even better than the Batman, if I'm going to be honest with me. The importance of this movie cannot be under understated. Like, it's just legitimately. All right, if we're giving out participation trophies.

It's not participation trophies. It's literally like Jerry West inventing the jump shot. Like, that's how... It's been a history lesson, though. It is, though. It's a movie that came on in 1989. I'm just being a hater.

Honestly, I'm just being a hater, because I like this conversation, though, because I don't think that legacy should mean that a movie is automatically a 12th. So to me, this is like... This is an 11 in terms of, like, there's a thing. I can get Superman the movie

because they still have not made a better Superman movie. Like, that's why, like, it's still indoors. I think, like, I'm actually bullshiting. Like, Batman is a good movie. Like, I love this Prince soundtrack. I love everything about it. I just think as time has gone on, I think Batman the animated series

is a better Batman franchise. I think the Batman is better. I think the Dark Night and the Dark Night Rises are better. I don't agree with you in all of those takes. But I will tell you, though, that I think you're making a fair argument, though. I really do. It's a fair argument, but I'm voting with Van on this one. like it's without this

I don't get Batman the Intermediate series you literally don't there's a lot to be said here and come on Michael Keaton that's like kind of unimpeachable as well like you want to get nuts come on like that's get nuts yes this is a yes for me

this is an 11.5 and the dark night is really what like bumps it back like yeah you know just can't people are going to hate me for this I know people are going to hate me but it's like I think you're making great points

To be honest with you, I think you're making great points. I don't agree, but I think this is why we have the conversation. I think you're making great points. I was going to pick Scott Pilgrim versus the world. Scott Pilgris versus the world. Okay, four people here. How many people adore, love every scene, every shot, every single frame of that movie? Out of the four of us.

How many people feel that way? One. Amen. I think it's just an amazing movie. I love this movie. It's a perfect movie. One of the most, I would put it in top 10 most rewatchable comic book. It's a perfect movie.

Yes. Is it a 12, guys? This is what shit we feel, all right? And this is different, this is different, right? Because that's what I'm saying. Scott Pilgrim versus the World is a perfect movie. But when we're talking about 12s, these are Hall of Famous. Scott Pilgrin versus the World is essentially like trying to think of somebody in basketball.

it's like a really great player that only played for like a couple of years. They don't have the other stuff. So here's my thing too. If this was just my Hall of Fame, I'm going to be honest. I would want us to give a little bit more latitude to even if it's not a game changer financially, does that rob it of its 12 miss? And a lot of times I actually don't think so because I think some movies I would put John, I think John Wick falls in this.

I think Logan falls in this. I think Scott Pilgrim versus the world falls in this where it's like the influence of that movie of like how far it pushes the medium almost overcomes the fact that like it wasn't necessarily as regarded in its time. I think Scott Pilgrim actually as a years go on, you're like, oh no, this is,

this has the energy of what we know the MCU would become. This has the energy of a lot of these like, Scott Pilgris versus the world came out, Scott People versus the World came out after Iron Man. No, but what I mean about when you get to Thor Ragnarok and them being like, no, we want this to visually feel like reading a comic book where it's not like, oh, we're just trying to make the Avengers look like a military group. We're actually like, oh, no, we're making this look like Jack Kirby drew it.

I think when you go back to Scott Pilgrim in the world, they're like, all right, how can we make this feel like a video game? How can we make this look like manga? How can we make this feel like how reading the original Scott Pilgrim felt? I think that this is one of those foundational movies in the same way that Guardians is. Because we start thinking of, we're not adapting comic book movies to look just like movies.

We're adapting comic book movies to look like comic books. So I think that Scott Pilgrim versus the world is probably, it's the MF Doom of comic book movies. It's your comic book movie creator's favorite comic book movie. I think it's probably that's probably where it would be and rest of peace to MF Doom listen to them all the time

but there is a different sort of area that that film exists in than then like the movies that we're talking about because you have to have all of the stuff and Scott Pilgrim versus the world which might be one of my top five favorite movies ever made right it just doesn't have all of the stuff

it doesn't But it doesn't have all of the stuff, Monique. On the list, you know, most unique, you know, jumping that together. You feel like Scott Pilgrin versus the world should have had Monique in it? Who would Monique play? Oh, of course. Monique should have been one of the axes. Ramona Flowers.

Can you imagine how Scott Pilgrin versus the world would be different? Romonique Flowers. Romonique Flowers. I want somebody out there. What was the guy that did this amazing guy, this amazing guy, Rafi's all. The guy that did the like The guy who actually made

Calica like tear up because he did the Fantastic Four thing and he put Bowesman on there and she thought it was so cute and amazing and she went and I looked at her. I'm like, are you tearing up? And she's like, that is so great that you guys have amazing fans. That guy redo for us

because I'm going to buy stuff off this guy. I'm going to have that. I'm going to do something special. But redo Scott Pilgrim versus the world. but put Monique as Ramona flowers Ramonique flowers. Honestly, this is crazy.

Who is Lucas Lee in this? Like Tyrese? Tyrese could be Lucas Lee. If they did Scott Pilgrim versus the world over with like black people, that would be so hysterical, bro. Oh, man. But it got to be all black people over 40.

Now we got a 12. Now we got a 12. Wait, who's Scott? Who's Scott? If it's over 40 black people He's not over 40 Oh you know Just over 40

Wait who He could be Childish Gambino He's close No he's close No He's 39 No

You actually know who would be hilarious This wouldn't be a good film But it'd be hilarious You gotta put that little motherfucker Jaden Smith and that shit Oh that would be so funny

I hate I hate how right you are I hate how right you are That would be so funny Jane Smith, but you still leave Monique. That's it. Jane Smith, Monique, we're loved so. That's so funny.

All right, Jomey, what's your pick? All right, from my last pick. You know, we've struggled throughout the years to find a great Fantastic Four movie. Okay, well, I would, let's not get into it right now. We do not have the time nor have the patience. But the first Fantastic Movie is good. But we have not got a great one until Brad Bird put pen to paper and gave us the Incredibles in 2004.

Incredibles is not only one of the best animated superhero films of all time. It's just one of the best superhero films of all time, period. Elastic Girl, Mr. Fantastic. Just their story, you know, starting from the jump, you know, gives us a lead-in to the lives of a night. as undercover superheroes. And the story with syndrome and dash and violet, man, is just one of the best

superhero stories of the century, really. And so, I mean, it should have been an automatic 12, but we're here now. Let's put the Incredibles into the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame. Absolutely zero. zero pushback from me.

I think this is, this is an auto 12 oversight. Really? I think this is, I mean, how could it not be? I guess if we are being like, if we're doing like the harsh grading thing,

part of me wonders, like you can make the case that Spider-Verse, every movie looks like Spider-verse now. If we were doing like, like, I don't know, how much of a game changer Incredibles was for

the fandom space. Like I think it is a great... Oh, I... I would argue that that's a game changer for sure. Wait, what's a... Just for... What does it change? Outside of Toy Story,

which was like the first few starting to the sequels, like, this is going to be the thing that people want to start, like, pushing for sequels for. It took Bradbert a long time to want to make the sequel to this. Mileage may vary on the sequel.

But with this, with the Cars franchise, and with kind of like the retro, like, actual, like, 50s aesthetic that, like, is emulating the Fantastic Four in those old comic books, I think this is here. But that's a game changer for Pixar. I don't know if that's a game changer for, like, fandom. Like, I actually think this is a great movie.

Part of me is just, like, when we think, of what movies did for superheroes. I'm like, The Incredibles did a lot more for Pixar than it did for, like, how we either view superheroes. Because there's not a lot of movies that I'm like, man, this is just like the Incredibles. I leave a lot of movies being like,

this should have been more like The Incredibles. You know what I'm saying? Like, can you name me any, like, MCU movies or DC movies that learned any lessons from the Incredibles? I, like, I can't. Every single Fantastic Four director, writer should learn from this movie.

I mean, they should. They didn't. Yes. The Fantastic Four movies are far away. I mean, that's fair. If that's the, if that's the like,

you know, at the end of the day, metric for people not learning from Logan, then they should have learned from the Incredibles. Yeah, but I mean, that's not on that.

I mean, I guess, but like, that's not on us. Like, all right, cool, you didn't take this away.

I think. But what part of the game did it change is, I guess my thing of like, again, it's not a Fantastic Four movie, but it's the best fantastic movie we've ever gotten. I don't think, you know, Marvels,

they're working on, they're working on theirs. I think the best movie they could do is something that's like this, right? Like when they drop their fantasy movie, we're going to be like, I don't know, man, Incredible's what's kind of there. You know what I'm saying? Also, just to let you know,

when I say game changing, it doesn't mean that the movie necessarily has to be directly emulated. I think in terms of, animated superhero fair we saw animated superhero movies kind of come after this. There had been them before but I thought

I thought that this movie took pulled everything together in a way that was really different and like change those movies a little bit. But so look I can understand if you're saying that the Incredibles spot off

a whole bunch of other Incredibles like situations I don't really know that it did. I'm not saying it's a bad movie either. And I'm not saying that I'm going to vote no.

I was just more so being like, for our own criteria, did it change the game or was it more so like this is one of the best superhero animated movies and it kind of stopped there.

Like this did a lot for Pixar. This did a lot for the Incredibles franchise. I would make the argument that like, rightfully so, because it's such a good movie,

no one has ever really like, its influence is kind of muted because people like, I want to make my Incredibles and then you see the movie like, this is not. It's not it. Well, I mean, you could make an argument that the Incredibles itself is a rip-off.

That that movie in and of itself is actually just responding to either the Fantastic Four or, you know, whatever. Like, you can make that argument, you know? It's a love letter to those, to a certain genre of like those Stanley Jack Kirby comics from, you know, 60, 70. Like, yeah.

But it's not, it's not. Or even, or even, or even, or even, or even, or even watchmen with the whole Superst thing and all of that stuff. But haven't said all of that, the movies are motherfucking 12. Like, to, like, to me. I'll tell you what. I'm going to, I am going to go, I'm going to vote no to leave it to the fans. No. What's no, man. Don't do that. Yeah, that's interesting. Don't, oh my. That's what the Incredibles in the fan vote. Because, no, Charles convinced me.

You guys were harsh on everything. And I'm just like, before this category, I was like, it's an automatic 12. And now you're like, it has to be a game changer. What did it. What did Logan say in the show before you die? Rest of peace, Logan, spoilers for succession. I love you guys. But y'all are not serious people.

You're not serious people. This is worth it for Jomey's reaction. Oh, Jomi. You guys have to watch our video. So you can see how pissed Jomey was. in that situation. So, I'm gonna just vote no

for fun. I'm gonna vote no. I'm gonna vote no. All right, well, I'm gonna be real quick with my pick. A bit of an oversight

that we didn't have this in the auto 12s, but this is gonna be an easy pick for me. Spider-Man 2. What's there to be said that hasn't already been said? It puts Sam Ramey

in the Pantheon, Toma McGuire's portrayal and this one is, I think, fantastic. An all-time villain and Doc Ock. some of the all-time best superhero action you've ever seen,

an absolutely game-changing amount of money to be made at the box office. Spider-Man 2, what do you say? Should have been an auto-pick. Instant. Yes. Instant. Instant. Yes. Instant, yes.

Instant yes to me. Should have been an auto-pick. Yes. You could make the argument that both Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 or 12s, but if you had to pick one, I'd pick this. one. I'm going to say no. So we go to the fans. So that's what we're doing. We already got two votes, Joe. So that's just what we do now. Jomey's so stupid.

Jomey, at least you got one on the board. Y'all didn't even let me get one on the fucking board. I should have had two. But since we want them for content, oh my God. We have to let the fans have their say, Jomey. We need a fourth pick. What's the fourth pick for the fan vote? We have John Wick, Logan, the Incredibles. What should be the, What should be the last one? You want to give them Blade? Let's let's have the fans have to say about Blade. But the Incredibles too.

The Incredibles too. So the fan votes are going to be Logan, John Wick, the Incredibles and Blade and Constantine. And for everybody, Van wins this one. He got three on the board with Superman, Batman, the Matrix. Steve and Jomey are tied. Steve got Return the King. Steve hold me.

I should have had two. But he's only He's dead ass He wins Steve is in second place because he got Spitey 2 and he got and he got Return

to the King Jomi has won That's insane I'm pissed I'm pissed I got zero But wait But wait but wait

But wait We don't know yet Because once the fans vote If the fans vote then Jomis becomes the 12 He can overtake See we got to leave it

to the fans Everybody can get more based upon what the fans say Jomey's going to put this up We have John Wick, Logan, The Incredibles, and Blade, yes or no. Man, we should have put Guardians in here at this point.

Damn. Like, no, we hold the Guardians down, though. We're all mad for our own reason. Y'all, y'all was wild. All right. That's a wrap. You guys, follow us on socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomby's job.

Make sure you go vote on what's going to be a 12 now. The can of worms is open. The candle worms is open and you guys should have your say. This coming Monday, Ben Lindberg will be around to discuss reactions to the legend of Zelda,

Tears of the Kingdom. Next Wednesday, the Midnight Boys will be giving you our own worst movies and fandom draft. I want to hear from the fans on that too. You guys give us some nominees there. We're out.

Look, this was a lot of fun. This is really fun. I didn't expect this to make your impressions felt. Like, you have to talk about this. We need to know, Jomi. Pick your face up, okay? Our producer. Jome, you got one on the board.

What are you mad about? I really should have had three, but I'm that, man, incredible. Three. Steve, don't let me, Steve, don't let me catch you lacking, my boy. Don't let me catch you outside. Our producer is Steve, the architect Alma, Jomi Adiron. Jomi, Dineron, Zonarons, our socials. Hashtag, vote for the five.

And a digital production by Arjuna Ramgapal. Charles, take us out. The first annual Midnight Meter Induction Hall of Fame is over. we don't fuck with the turn of the kings or elves. And sadly, Incredibles is not an auto-trial. B-D-Nuts. Nuts. Fills.

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