The Ringer-Verse - The 'Rogue One' Rewatch and 'House of the Dragon' Thoughts | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

The boys are back in town to deliver plans for a great pod! They revisit the popular film 'Rogue One' in anticipation of the 'Andor' premiere next week (05:05). Later they rank the film against the entire 'Star Wars' canon and debate what belongs on the top spot (51:53). Then, they give brief impressions of the latest controversial episode of 'House of the Dragon' (70:01). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I have some good news for you. The hottest take. It's back. Oh yeah. Monday through Thursday, four times a week. You hear from me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy, Mallor Rubin, Wazdine Lambray, Van Lathan, Julie Lipman. Many other ringer staffers. You get one take. You got a defendant to the death. Sports takes. Pop culture takes. Food takes. Airplane takes. Oh, yeah. It's coming back. First episode drops. August 29th. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

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This is of course the ringer's nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve, the architect Alman, architecting his heart out right now. We are Jomi, the Gryper, Adiron. Jomi, the explainer, Adiron. Jomi, the enforcer, Adiron. We are, Oman Van. He of the Jagged Edge hairline. And we are Coke baby Chuck the 24-carried clothes are better known as the brunch haughty.

Together we are known as a other midnight boys. Oh, boo. Okay. Thursday, Ben Lindbergh and Joanna Robinson. Oh. Joe. Benjo. It's like a banjo, but it's like a banjo.

I just keep on. I'm saying they could riff off that. That could be like a new name. Benjo, Kazooey. Bintu Bachel Kuzui. That's the name. They returned to break down episode five of She-Hulk. Episode five, She-Holk.

She-Holk is trudging right along. It is trudging. Yeah, it's trudging right along. You don't like She-Hoke. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don't like Madison. This is a place of positivity today. I have a lot to get off, my chat.

Yeah, I bet you do. So that's going to be Thursday. Friday, House of R will be deep diving into the fourth episode of Rings of Power. Rop. Ropi. We're getting Ropi with some L's. Black L's.

Can we? This is the longest programming. It doesn't matter. I'm going to be honest with you. I want a rings of power with an all-black cast. I want rangs of power. You know what I'm saying?

Like rings of power, but it's about the rings that you will, pinky rings of power. That's the show that I want. Okay, that's going to have. The rings of black power. The rings of, oh my God. Oh, shit, Charles.

You just made him. sit up in his chair. The rings of black power. That's the show. Bro, that's the show. The rings of black power. We can do with historical. You know what I mean?

Fannie Lou Hamer. Stokely Carl. Jesus Christ. You know what I mean? The rings of black power. That's what we need. Oh, boy. That's the show.

They're all, like, competing for one ring to get us reparations. That's the goal at the end. That's something worth traveling to a volcano. If Day Chappelle, like, Sarron, where... Saturday, Johnny and Steve come back. Harley Quinn, season three thoughts.

They're doing this way we doing here. Wait, season three are already over? Yeah, man. Last episode drops on Thursday. Drop tomorrow. Damn. Time flies. Come back.

This Sunday, by the way, this is... You're saying that this is a long program reminder, but also because there's a ton of shit on here. This Sunday, Talk the Thrones comes back as CR. now Joe, CRB and Chris Ryan give you their instant reactions to the House of Dragon right, House of the Dragon, right after the episode is done.

You never know what family members will fuck each other this Sunday. Well, that's a spoiler. I just want to applaud the rest of the midnight boys because we're recording this live and how do y'all do this every fucking week? My hot takes are going to be so lukewarm today. I'm so tired. I don't know what you're talking about.

What do you mean? It's 10 a.m. It's 10 a.m. I usually record this at like 1 p.m. I'm feeling frisky. Motherfuck I don't care about your time travel travails or whatever. I'm not going to talk about that. Wake up.

On today's show, we're going to be giving a little preview for the show and or, boom, by diving back into the Star Wars Rogue One film. It was great. And later we'll be given some of our brief thoughts on the latest episode of House of the Drag. And I will tell you this, we have to do this because Charles really wants to talk House of the Drag. Oh, me, you called Joe and had an hour long conversation with her because you just read the book. I read fire and blood. I felt like it was shared.

We're both very excited. I'm very excited too, but you were more excited for House or Dragon than I thought you were going to be. The last episode was lit. Disgusting, but lit. You know, like, okay. So I'm thinking to Rogue One. Rogue one. It's a great movie.

We love it. Steve, roll the spoiler warning for a movie that literally came out like five years ago. So, like, roll the spoiler warning. We're getting ready to talk about Rogue One. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Okay, released on December 16th, 2016,

directed by Gareth Edwards, with a screenplay by Chris White's and Tony Gilroy. This is the direct prequel to the events of Star Wars New Hope. Okay? You always wondered how they were able to, able to detect the weakness in the Death Star and knew where they had to hit. This is the story of the brave women and men that went to get that information. Roe 1.

It was a different take on Star Wars. It was a war film from Star Wars. Before we even get into it, what was you guys' initial reactions when you saw Rogue 1 in theaters? I fell asleep. Don't kill me. Oh, boy. Jesus Christ. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

I will say I rewatch this in my whole thing. hotel room last night. And my taste has changed. This is an amazing film. But I was actually thrown for a loop because for years I thought this was a Tony Gilroy film. Like, because of all of the shit that went on. And then what I saw directed by, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Did Tony Gilroy do this? So there was a lot of, like, shenanigans around Rogue One. It had been a VFX artist on the original trilogy. I think prequel trilogy was like, we should do something like Rogue One. sat, Gareth Edwards directs it, and then they bring in Gilroy to do massive, massive reshoots,

which he hasn't really talked about that much. Right. But now, in 2022, I feel like, did you think of this as a Tony Gilroy movie? I did.

I did think of his. But I, when there's director shenanigans, I always like to play whose movie is it. AI, whose movie is it? Kubrick's kind of. Is it?

Is it? Not really? No, it's more Spielberg. I always thought of it as a Spielberg movie. It's kind of, a split in half, though. But, but, but that the fun, there's a fun game called

whose movie is it? Solo, whose movie is it? That's, that's Ron Howard's movie. Are you sure? I, that's, that's a lot of Ron Howard in there. Okay. So, so, so you'd say solo is Ron Howard's movie, uh, AI is Spielberg's movie, we're

saying. Yeah. Sure. Okay. And in this movie, you would say that this movie is Gilroy's movie. I mean, if you think about who they went to, or at least and or is going to be Tony Gilroy being at the helm.

I tend to think of this as a Gilroy film. I do too. Justice League. Okay. All right. Let's not. Who's the movie is it? Justice League.

Whose movie is it? It's not Zach Snyders. It's not Zach Snyders. Who's the other guy? You don't even know the name that we're not a name. Steve, Jummi, your thoughts initially with Rogue One. So I showed up to the theater late. Um, listen, it was a busy time.

And actually, we, we saw the movie the day that, um, the day that Carrie Fisher died. And so when the movie, movie ends, like toward the end of the movie and you see Leah, like the whole theater was like, oh, like, just erupted. I'm like a little real sad note. But for the movie itself, for what I, what I saw the first time I saw it, special. I had a great time. Jomey, you said that 2016 was a busy year for you. What, how busy were you? I was, you know, just, it was, I graduated college that year.

Right. I was finishing my undergrad. How close was this to agents of Shieldgate? Yeah, that's the main question. No, that was, that was 2018. Were we doing the Jomi interview series here? What's what you doing? Listen, I got an interesting life.

Steve, like, what is this? Steve, now it's your turn to talk. How was the movie for you? It was amazing. When I first saw it, I was absolutely blown away by it. I think that it was probably the first time that, like, I'd seen something that, like, I didn't think Star Wars could do that. I didn't think that we could see, like, not just an adventure film, but, like, you said,

a war film like that. And I was, like, kind of stunned at how grounded and, like, realistic it was. Like, there was a lot of, like, political sentiment that was like, wow, this is, like, really like, okay, what if the empire was like for real? And people were just on the ground trying to figure this shit out. That's a very apt take to me because the empire has always existed as something conceptual. And the antidote to the empire has always been hope, right? We never really thought about the empire as a real brutal regime because we didn't really get that much of that.

As a matter of fact, I can make an argument that in the original trilogy, the people besides my poor, poor bastards on Alderon, man. Shout out, man. Sorry. Sorry to happen to y'all. I could make an argument that the people that the empire fucked over the most in the original trilogy were other people from the empire. All we saw was Darth Vader like killing empire people and people being fucking terrified to be in the empire, right? We had a sense of the Holth-Hallon-on-the-Gal galaxy, but we didn't really see the overall shittiness of the regime, right? So what this was was a rebellion that was fused.

fueled by hope against this conceptual bad thing. Over time, in reading, we learned just how bad they were, just how repressive they were, just how totalitarian they were, and Rogue One was one of the movies that really, really drove that home for me, right? Because it's a dark, gritty, epic war film where people have to make these crazy, insane choices about what they're willing to sacrifice to overthrow this regime. I will take it one step further when Tony Gilroy was talking about doing this, he talked on a podcast, and he was essentially like,

it was easy for him to do like the reshoots and the rewrites because he didn't get, basically he didn't give a fuck about Star Wars. He doesn't care about it. And what he cares about is making a world that is grounded and feels real, where it's like the politics, the war, the effort that these people go through

is real. And even if you look at the world, rebels in this. When we see Cassian, what's the first thing we see him do? Shoot a guy who just gave him information in the back. That's do it. Instead of like, because the guy's arm is broken, he can't save him. He's like, you're not going to be a snitch. Bap-wow. And he later in the film, Cassian actually tells us how much everybody in the rebellion has had to do bad things. Like, these are good people doing terrible things for a righteous cause. And that's something that we didn't really see in. they're Star Wars, we were like, oh, the rebels are 100% good, they've never done anything bad.

And you're like, no, this is war. To get where they need to go, yes, Cassie might have to kill Jin's father. I'd argue that in the first three movies, we're not exactly clear why they're rebelling. Hmm. Like, we know, so because everything is seen through the POV of Skywalker. Yeah. And Skywalker is a character that's trying to access this mystical, amazing universe-binding power. The movie almost serves, the Empire, should I say, almost serves as just a sort of plot device for him to become who he's going to be.

That's kind of what the movie's about. These are the bad guys. Like, these are the bad guys. He has to overcome them. And in order to do this, he has to fulfill the destiny that his father couldn't and reconnected. connect with him. I think the interesting thing in Star Wars, as sort of told here in Rogue One and other situations

and other stories that you read, is understanding, that's why the prequels are important, just how we got there, and just what the stakes were. And this movie did that better than anything else. I also remember there was a lot of chatter because I was on the Reddit's,

about the vision of Darth Vader that we were supposed to have seen in the scene that he was going to come in, make his debut in in this movie and like all of the controversy that was happening at Disney because apparently the first time he was the way that was written, Darth Vader or the way they was shot initially,

Darth Vader was supposed to come in and cut people's arms off and rip people in half with the force which totally makes sense in this movie and to me totally would have like it's almost like what they did in Obi-Wan, right? Like when he's snapping people's necks and doing all that stuff, that's the scary bastard

that's the scary son of a bitch that I wanted to see and that made me run out to see the movie because I wanted to see how much of that energy they were going to keep in the film. I mean also, the thing re-watching this film that I loved about it, like I love this movie so much now, is that Rogue One is so tactile.

You feel it way more. I think what happens in the Star Wars universe is that we take the language for granted. We've seen Tattooing so much. We've seen all these places. So sometimes, in various shows, I think they lean on that

so it doesn't feel as real, whereas in Rogue One, everything you see on screen feels like it has been thought of. Like, even the director was saying, like, the actual plans that Princess Leia puts into R2,

they didn't have a design for that. They just had, like, the Blu-ray version of, like, what it looked like, and he's like, I have to think about what this little disc is going to look like. That's how much love and care

is in this moment. where you're just like, oh, this is kind of what I wish all Star Wars could get back to in terms of like making me feel like I'm in this universe. Steve, on your rewatch, what did you see? I think the biggest thing that I saw is it was kind of the thing that I've always kind of wanted or challenge Star Wars to do and make it about people. I really, really love, especially now that we're going to be coming up to the show itself. I really did love the idea of Cassian, the idea that this guy was like this rebel spy operator that isn't exactly on the level,

that he's been in a fight for this since he was a kid and that he's cared about something like this, not exactly hell-bent on revenge, but driven by purpose since the moment that we meet him. And all of these other, like, smaller political figures like the Donny Yen character, Riz Ahmed's character, the pilot. All these people are the small little people that don't get any shine in the Star Wars universe

that are really trying to just like make it above water under the crushing boots of the empire. And that's really what I've stuck to this entire time. And not to say that like I never needed to see Grand Moth Tarkin or I never needed to see Darth Vader in this movie. But it could have easily just been that and I would have been very sad. Are any of you chauvinist going to talk about Jen Erso in the movie at all? I mean, like, we've been doing the podcast on you to get Cassie Nandoah. Oh, like, are any of you, I mean, we can talk about Jin Erso right now. I'm going to bring up, no, no, you got your chance.

I don't have to be prompted. If I'm going to be real, I think the problem with Jin in this movie is similar to, like, Luke in a New Hope, where it's like, because Jin is our POV character, It's like she is finally inside of this rebellion after years of being raised by Saw, being abandoned by him, thinking only of herself. So her job is really, Jen's job in the movie narratively is very thankless where it's like she's absorbing all of this. Where someone like Cassian, it's like, oh no, he gets to be the Han Solo type. He gets to be the person who's like not totally good, not totally bad gray. So when I was rewatching this, I'm like, oh, no wonder they made it about Andor the Disney Plus show is because you want to see how someone becomes almost that ruthless because he lies to Gin. He's like, he's going out there to kill her father.

And you're just like, dog, how did you get so fucked up? And not to say that Jin is like a wet blanket of a character or anything. It's more it's more of a like she's essentially an audience surrogate while also having a very heavy stake in this story because her father is literally the engineer of the destiny. star. So, like, she has to kind of, like, tow that line of, like, understanding exactly what's going on and kind of introducing us into this world, while also still being highly invested in everything that needs to go on. That's a tough line to walk, but, like, all of the characters that surround her and kind of build her up to make her rides to that occasion, we tend to be,

to glom onto a little bit more. Can I also just say it is wild to be the child of the person who creates the death. I was like, but, but, but see, to me, I want to, like, get Jomey in here and I like, but Jomey, your thoughts on the rewatching, you know, the Jen, Gerso erasured discourse that's going on. Oh, my. Yeah. I mean, all of you guys,

we love Gin Erso. Oh, Jesus. No, you don't. Okay. But Jome, your thoughts? I can say my Gen O's show thoughts for the back half, but to, oh, well, listen. We will get down right. Is this Haley Steinfeld?

Oh, relax. Oh, no one's touching her. It's fine. Relax. To mirror Steve's point, you know, seeing the rebels, you know, Bodie and, you know, Chirut and Bayes, all that stuff. For me, that's interesting as well. That's very interesting as well. But it was seeing the bureaucracy of the empire, right? Because, like, a big chunk of the movie is Krenik, Krenik, and Grand Mav Tarkin going back and forth about, like, who's getting credit for the Death Star.

Yeah. you know and it doesn't like just hearing that doesn't sound interesting but in the film you follow cranny he's talking's like hey man we're gonna you know show my achievement he's like you're it's this is this is me yeah he goes to dart vader he's like basically like i'm getting credit for this right like they don't they don't know this was me right and it's just like it's it's way more interesting than you can ever think and i mean part of that is you know ben mendelsohn it is in his in his bag and you know even though Darth or Moth Tarkin is a cartoon character, basically.

It still works. Wait, can we talk about that real quick? I forgot that Tarkin was in this so much and all my rewatch. I was just like, okay, I remember this looking way better when I was in the theater. To me, I went back and forth.

Because in like some moments, I'm like, wow, that looks really good. When he's not standing still. When he's still and not talking, you're like, oh, that's Tarkin. And then when he starts talking a little too much, you're like, ooh, this is a video game. Because I thought it was going to be one scene.

I thought it would be like, oh, okay, like he's just going to be like, ah, and there, and there we go. Leia looked perfect. Leia looked perfect. Tarkin was here and miss. Let me come back to Geno. But here's the thing with the Leia thing. She was there for like, what? Not even 10 seconds.

But she looked perfect. But she looked perfect. She looked perfect. So let me come back to the Genooso thing. Gen Erso's character actually gave me hope for a different direction in Star Wars because she's the anti-Luc. She's like, she's the anti-Luc as far as the character's concerned. She was the one that had a strong. next to her family that was ripped away and has to sort of re-enroll and re-and.

She wasn't trying to save anyone. She wasn't trying to save. She had no grand future. She had no promise. She had no destiny. She had to reinvest into something that her father didn't want, right? And going there and like fulfill. She was like motivated by something other than who she was going to become.

and Star Wars is anchored by hope, right? And I said that before. So because Star Wars is so anchored by hope, sometimes people are looking at these, like Luke's look it off into the sky, into these grand things. She begrudgingly comes back into this. She's forced to kind of do all of this stuff.

And she's a way more realistic hero in that way. Like you don't join the Army because you want to save the world. You join the Army so you can go to college. You know what I mean? You join the Army. Like very few people have this deep, deep, deep, deep sense. And I'm not saying that we don't have amazing soldiers that have a sense of duty and honor.

Plenty of people do. I know people personally, but there are real world reasons why people choose to do the things that they do. And it made it more intimate and in a way more relatable. Like, I related to her. And literally, I thought, okay, this is going to be the way we're going to go in the future.

This is going to be what it is that we do, right? And obviously, we had seen that they shot away from it a little bit with kind of Ray being a luke. sequel, right? But they still struggle with it. They still struggle with why characters do what it is they do in Star Wars. It's not an easy

thing to do. So I actually enjoy her character so much because other than Han Solo, who once again came around really quickly, for Han Solo to live his entire life as a smuggler, all he had to do was get a little

taste of, yo, I love the four. and somebody bat their eyes or the be, he goes. I mean, it was a princess life. You know what I mean? I was very, very, very scared. He said, all Hans Solo needs to do is get a taste, and I'm like, where is he going?

Wait, can I go one step further? What did you say? Sure. I think actually Rogue One and Last Jedi did during that time period, that I wish Star Wars would have gotten back to, is this idea of so much of Star Wars is focused on one family. these special people. It takes this rag-tab group to save the galaxy.

I'm like, no, there are a bunch of people who have the power, who have the will and the courage to save the galaxy. And with Rogue One and Last Jedi, both those stories are very much about, like, there are so many people who believe in the force. Just because you can't push an object doesn't mean, like, we see it with cheer it.

Like, he believes in this thing that's bigger than him. He's just as instrumental as Luke, but we never get to see those people. And that's what I think a lot of Ryan Johnson's film was about, where it's like the force is bigger than just this family, just the Jedi. And that's why I like the Guardians of the Wills in this, because you see how much they haven't forgotten. Their temple has fallen.

They don't technically have a physical thing to protect anymore, but they do have a spirit of this rebellion, of hope, of the force. And I wish we got more of that instead of it being like, all right, well, you know, Ray is related to this person, and she's going to go save the galaxy because she's destined to. So I'm going to be honest with you. I'm a Skywalker stand.

I'll be honest with you. I like the Skywalker. They really do need the help. They really do. I'm a Skywalker stand, man. I think that I think that the Star Wars is inextricably linked to the family

because the family is like telling the story of the force. If you read enough, if you read enough, if you read enough Star Wars, if you watch enough Star Wars, then you realize that the force is a living thing and it wants to have a say in the universe. And the only way that it can without manipulating things by itself is to use human beings in order to represent itself. That is really to me the central struggle. The central struggle in all of this stuff is how the will of the force will play out.

The real reason why the empire fails to me is not because of the rebels, it's because of the Sith. It's because the way the Sith run their shit is, I'm a, I'm a Sith, like a Sith Lord, right? My apprentice is meant to supplant me. Right? I know this. In the back

of my mind, I know my apprentice supplants me, right? So I give them a lot of power. They take over, then they get an apprentice. If you really look at the way the Empire ran things, that's the way that they did it. There was no sense of honor or duty or anything greater to fight for for the Empire.

It was really just a bunch of people, when you talk about Krennick and Tarkin, it was a bunch of people backbiting each other and like trying to fuck over each other till they get to the top. And that was going to crumble from the inside anyway. And that is a reflection and a manifestation of the dark side of the force, the way it's used by the Sith. So the real story of Star Wars is the story of the force and how it plays itself out and which. use of the force will bring a more harmonious galaxy. And that, to me, you have to have somebody to be the avatar for the force. And that's why the Skywalker's have always been that, because they are born of the force. The reason why this story works is because that doesn't mean that every story has to be about them. It doesn't mean that every story has to be about them.

It means that you can make a story that sees all of that, right? This is still a, a, uh, this is still something to where, even the force itself, the force is still working in this story without you having to beat it in our heads, how mysterious it is, without giving us more lore with the metaclorians. And that's the only problem I had with The Last Jedi

is it was preaching, I'm gonna be honest with you. I love The Last Jedi, but the problem I had with it, it was preaching that everybody can use the force and everybody can be a part of the force, but we already knew that. No, we didn't.

Yes, we did. No, we didn't. I mean, like, hammering home that sentiment, It isn't a bad thing, though. But it kind of didn't need to be done. To me, it has to be done because I don't think that, and I think the problem that Star Wars is having right now,

is that when it's not about the Skywalker's, I feel like we get into an area where it's like undercooked and underbaked, where I'm just like, guys, like Star Wars is vast. We can tell all of these stories. We can't just keep basically retelling the same one. Because what was really the problem of the sequel trilogy? it followed the same beats of what came before. And I'm like, we can, stories don't, life doesn't work like that.

The problem of the secret trilogy to me wasn't the heroes, it was the villains. So, like, you can do another story about somebody understanding their place in the universe and it can be inspirational all over again. But you can't recycle the empire. They already lost. Like, I'm serious. If that, if that sequel trilogy would have been about to use on Vaughn or about anybody, like, you know, I'm sorry that you guys, I'll go back to Legends.

But if that series would have been about to use on Vomb or something, you might have given something. But really, like, we're fighting Stormtroopers again. Like, they literally had to destroy the new republic. Like, we have to watch a whole planetary system get destroyed to reinvest into the same thing that... But we got that three times. We got that in the prequel.

We got that in the original. And then we got it in this... The prequel is not about that. The prequel is a deeply and intense political series of movies about how really... And we've talked about this. Fucking Palpatine worked Yoda, worked Mace Windo,

worked all of these guys, and had them fighting for him the entire time. That's all about politics. That's why people didn't like it. People didn't like it. I mean, let's be real. You can't, you can't try this. Making a kid's movie about trade routes is tough.

It's tough. I think it became, I think Star Wars, I think Rogue One back to Rogue One. I think Rogue One, shows you that Star Wars can be bored in the kids movie. I think that's what people are wrestling with. Can you give me something in this? And that's the question that Andor will have to answer.

Can you give me something that's not for kids that's accessible to kids, but it's not for kids? Those are two different things. Being kid accessible and being for children is two different things. But don't you think that that is the big problem that's always with Star Wars where it's just like, You have a generation of people who grew up with the original who are just like, we want Rogue One. We want the adult movie.

And then you have Disney being like, these kids got to fucking buy these lightsabers. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, but the reality is we're doing that with everything, right? Like, there's a scene in Ultron where Black Widow is talking to Hulk about the fact that she can't have kids. what are the 12-year-olds doing then? This episode is brought to by Borishead. What if we told you the taste of deep-fried turkey is now available at your local deli?

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discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borishead committed to craft since 1905. Okay, let's talk about Cassie Nandoah real quick. Had you guys ever seen the Star Wars character like Cassie Nandoah before Real Boy? Yes. Okay.

The only black two in Star Wars. Landau Calerzian? Yeah. Not in terms of morals. In terms of like Lando, when we meet him, like he fucks them over. In terms of just like someone who is like very self-serving.

I'm not saying it's a total one-to-one, but I do think that like finding someone to put in your movie who's so moral. early gray, who it's like, Lando eventually does come over to the good side, just like, just like Andor. But there's a little bit in the movie where I'm like, dog, you are a bastard. Well, I don't think it's any, it's self-serving. I think it's like the opposite is, you know.

I would call it's quite righteous in a way. Yeah, he's a dick, but like for the right reasons. Righteous? He kills, he kills one of his informants. Yeah, because you can't, you can't snitch. We can't get you get caught. Is that not a war crime? Probably.

Probably. But, I mean, it's... I'm not... Here's the thing. It's for the mission. I'm saying I get it. But like, dog, like, this man is like, dog, I got to get out of here. I got to get out of here.

And then he breaks his arm. He's like, yo, bro, I can't get. He's like, blah, bop. It just leaves. Okay. I have to say something. Cassian and Andor is almost nothing like Landau covers. I don't see it.

Yeah, I don't see it. What are you talking? He's not concerned with money. That's for sure. But who is at the end of the day, who is Landau? out for before he changes. He's out for himself. Cassian doesn't strike me as a guy who's entirely out for himself. He's about admission. He's not out for himself. Yeah. Well, you think he

like, he's not out for himself at all. Maybe that's what the show will show us. Maybe like... He can go from selfish to self-lash. Actually, you guys are right. Can I tell you what the actual best part of Rogue One is? What? Two characters. Chirot and K-2. They're my guys. Yeah, Q-2 is... Like, K-2 quickly has climbed my top five droids of all time. He might be a top three journey.

He's in five for sure. I don't know about three. R2 is number one. Sure. I would say after that, I don't want to put C3PO number two. No. Chopper?

Chopper? Big chopper. Wait, no, BB.B.A.2. Chopper three. Yeah. And then I think K2 would be my number four. Okay. Shout out.

Who's number five? C3P. Okay. I put 3PO higher because you guys hate on them, but. Chopper's got to be about BBA. Yeah, it's not even close. His thing, though,

Chopper is in Rogue One. If you got an eagle eye, he's on the base and you have him four, which means Hara is also somewhere on that base. How does that make sense if, like, the whole fucking base gets destroyed? He'll find, you figure out.

Actually, I've got to watch a rubble, so I know he's going to figure out a way to get off this. The other thing I wanted, I think was super cool about this. is like, this is the first movie where we really get to get into, like, how does the Death Star work? Like, we know, you read about the Khyber crystals and all of these things, but actually seeing what it takes to mind them, seeing how they are quite literally to power. Like, if you think about metaphorically what it's doing, to power the Death Star, you are taking something that's sacred, Khyber Crystals, the Jedi, something that was meant to be a protective force in the universe. And then the Sith are basically degrading it

and transforming it into something that is so devilish and is so evil. And you can read about that, but to see it happening, to see it happening where you see this monument of a stone Jedi destroyed is so fucking cool. Like there's just so much to love about that. Also, just a perversion of people, right?

how Palpatine's version of the Order in the universe, order in the galaxy, just perverts people. Galen Orso is obsessed with understanding of the power sorts of the kind of pericles, right? Yeah. Not for any nefarious reason, just because he's a scientist

and he's naturally inquisitive and he wants to do all these things. The empire can feel it. They can see it. They turn them into a slave and a killing machine. What happened to Galen Erso is not that much, different than what happened to Darth Vader.

Ooh, speak on it. Darth Vader's talent was seen as a weapon. That shows you the way, you know, you run a society or a galaxy, whatever. Either your talent is seen as something that can benefit people. And I'm not sure that Papatine didn't see what he was doing as a benefit. He seems very dedicated to his version of the galaxy. But you need to say, hey, capitalization is a thing. to where you see someone, a young kid,

you go, oh, we're going to turn them into the best thing that they can be. So let's give them all the best books, the best schools, the best everything, the best situation, and let them go figure out how they're going to serve the world. There's a different way to run a society where you look at someone and you say, I'm going to make this person's talent a means to my end. And we've seen the empire do that. That is what they do. They did it.

Palpatine was very, very dedicated to doing that with Anakin Skywalker. no matter who got in his way, right? And in the same way, they did it to Galen Erso. Galen Erso was someone, no one knew more about copper crystals than him, and they turned him into the weapon. He is actually, in a way, a bigger weapon than the Death Star is, because they have to have him to make this planet-killing machine. And it kind of showed, once again, it shows you, like,

and Rogue One really does this, this drab-dour view of existence in this guy. galaxy that had to me never really been fulfilled by Star Wars. We see people getting all fucked up, right? We see, but like we never saw just how shitty the decisions that people had to make in their daily lives in order to survive. I mean, also what you see in Rogue One is this idea of like, sacrifice is ugly. When we see all of the team die, they're not dying in these glorious ways. It's horrible.

It's horrible. You're like, even though they've. If it contributed to saving the galaxy, there is almost a sadness where, like, and or gin have to have the hope that the plans got away. And we see how close it is that the plans don't. Like, all of it could be for not. So it's, like, very interesting to see this world

where it's, like, in the original trilogy, because it's more of a kid's film, and that's nothing against it, you just, you don't get that level of emotion. It's really, really incredible to just say on paper that this is a Star Wars, movie where all of our heroes die at the end. Yeah.

Like that is an incredible thing to have done. Like that was probably the first thing that I was like, oh, Star Wars actually really went out on a limb with this one. I was reading that they wrote a scene where everybody lived, but they never filmed it because they were just basically like, we don't even want Disney to see a version of this film where they all live, because that's probably going to be the one they want to go with. And I actually think Rogue One would be a way worse movie.

if our heroes don't die. Right. Because you actually get to see the weight of like, oh, for for Leah to get these plans out there, it means something. For better to be hunting for these plans in a new home. My brother's, my cousin arrives at Marine, and one time we were sitting down playing video games,

he was telling me about how upset he was and he didn't get, he hurt his knee before it was time to, time for him to go to Iraq. And, you know, I haven't been a Marine and had been training for that. Like, he was talking about the fact that, like, he felt like a failure because he couldn't go help. You know what I mean? And I was asking him, like, when you're out there, like, how does it go? Like, you know, what's the deal?

He goes, well, the number one thing is mission accomplishment. Number two thing is bringing your brothers back with you. I was like, wow. I thought it was almost like, and excuse me if I'm getting this wrong to any of our service members out there. but I'm like, I thought it was never leave any man behind. He was like, don't leave any man behind if you can. But the first thing that's on our mind as Marines is mission accomplishment. Like the most important thing is to do whatever we are told to do,

whatever the objective is there. Nothing comes before that, not your life, not my life, not anyone's life. If we're there to extract somebody, get them extracted. If we're there to destroy this target, get the target destroyed. Whatever happens after that, happens after that. That is reflected in this movie.

They can't care about whether or not they survive. They can't care whether or not the fucking plan. What if they get there and it's a 404 error on the disc? Right. You know what I'm saying? Like they can't care about that. They just have to do what the fuck they were told. And hope.

That's the hope in this movie. Yeah. The hope is what you sacrifice for will mean something. It's a different kind of hope than what we've seen before. And it's perfectly illustrated in that last 10-minute stretch on the beach where like every single person before they perish has that moment where like they pull it out for the team to like pass off the ball to the next person to make sure that those plans get off. Like the pilot dies to make sure that the radio tower is working.

Chirot and Bays make sure that the power's connected. They perish. Cassian and Cassian makes sure that the uploads. Like every single person. person is contributing before they absolutely fulfill their purpose to make sure that this one thing happens. And you know what that changes? It changes a tenet of

Star Wars. Who destroyed the Death Star? Luke. No, the Rebellion did. Well, we think of it as... But that's what I mean. Like, Luke Skywalker did not destroy the Death Star. The Rebellion destroyed the Death Star.

And that to me is such an important thing. Luke Skywalker didn't save the galaxy. The rebellion saved the galaxy. You know what I mean? It took so many. They say that she says that.

Malmotha says that, but we just brush it off. She goes, a lot of people died to get these plans. Yeah. You know what I mean? Cool. And we're like, all right, well, Luke's the only one that can do it.

But no, a lot of people had to do a lot of things. And I think that's the promise at the Star Wars world, and what I'm hoping for for Andorpe, is that they can show us just how Hercules the task it was for all of these, things that seemed like the destiny of our favorite characters to do were. I mean, we know that it doesn't happen if Hans not the dopest pilot in the galaxy.

If Leah's not the best leader and the most savvy politician of Luke, his birthright isn't to do what it does. But like, a lot of people had to go through a lot of shit to fucking make all of this stuff happen. But I will say, like, kind of my last point is, like, to your Marine point, the thing that I think is beautiful and why Jin is such an important character is, like, Jin, the moment where Jin and Cassian are having an argument because she finds out that Cassian was supposed to kill her father, those were the orders. And Cassian's like, but I didn't, though.

I didn't pull the trigger. And that's so, because to your point, it's all about mission accomplishment. And what does it take for someone like Cassian to be like, I have to turn the switch off. I cannot kill this man. And then for them to go back to the base and nobody wants to follow this plan. it's up to Cassian to kind of break that coding that he's been built in where it's like mission, mission, mission,

where it's like, actually, the true mission is this. Right. Actually, this is what we should be fighting for. Right. Because if you think about it, without that rag tag group, without the Rogue One, we don't get any of this

because all of them were basically like, we don't want war, we don't want this, go to your rooms, fuck this. Right. And that was actually a beautiful moment where I was like,

oh, this wasn't some big concerted effort. This was a couple of people with heart saving the galaxy. I got one question. I know, you know, there is a lightsaber in the movie and it comes from Vader, right? And that is, even though Vader got busy in Obi-Wan,

that's still the most badass version of Vader. Like, I was scared. I love that. I love this movie. Yeah. Thinking back to when I first saw that, I think that, like, Not as far as a rock, maybe your mileage may vary as far as the theater's reaction there. But like, personally, I think that tops like cap getting the hammer.

I think that tops. Okay, well, that's crack, okay. What kind of schedule two drugs are you on right now? Let Steve have those, damn. As far as, like, shock value of like a, like, no sign. It's not, no. I will say, though. I'm not talking about like, oh my God, this is amazing.

But it's more about like a, like a fantasy or a like, understanding of a character realized. Okay. What we have to do is put this on the internet. Okay. Because this is one of those... You're not winning the Steve. There's a Twitter take.

Sure. This is a Twitter take. I like this. No, I don't. But you don't. You want the discourse. No, you don't make your case. I'm sorry, I interrupted.

Well, I just think it was personally more stunning for me to see something... To see... Darth Vader kill people? Something that he's done before... That way? Like that? To Steve's point. I don't agree.

But to Steve's point... We also forget that this is the first movie that is, that's released, that is not part of the main, the main kind of like trilogies. Okay. Yeah. So when you see this and you see Darth Vader realized like that, I think it did give a lot of people hope. We're like, oh my gosh, these movies like, yes, we're about to get so much and rat romp, we didn't. It's that. It's like, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the thing that you imagine when you're playing with an action figure as a kid.

It's not that he wasn't poorly realized in other movies. It's that like this is like that he was the shark in jaws. He was the Terminator. He was everything that you probably figured that Darth Vader already was. And it was this side of him that you got to see. That's what I'm talking about. Well, I don't agree that it's better than caps done hammer. I guess that's nuts.

But I think for me and I would like to, you know, would like to hear everybody else's thoughts. But I think it's, I mean, it's probably my number one star, Star Wars moment. I don't think there is. Number one star, oh, right. Number one star, there's time. So let's ask you question then. Is seeing him, and I know you guys been to keep it all the way real,

is seeing Darth Vader cut through those guys, poor bastards, man. Tough. Let's put one in the air for that. Tough scene. They really, they really, they could have done. That was like a horror movie scene. Is that better than seeing Yoda work his lightsaber at the end of Attack of the Clones?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's easily the clock. I don't agree. Come on, bro. Either Yoda getting busy was better than... No shot. I think, bro, I don't agree, bro. I really think Yoda grabbing a lightsaber at the end of the attack of the clones. Nuts.

And getting busy tops that... You guys were babies, first of all. I saw it and I thought it was cool. I'm looking back on it. You guys were babies when Attack of the Clones came out in the theaters. I saw both of these in the theaters. and the fucking reaction to Yoda like fighting Duku

and Darth Vader I'm writing this shit from Blockbuster this is how much I love that movie I saw it in theaters thought it was the best movie of all time it did not age well you're wiling Attack of the clones did not age well

maybe it's not a good movie maybe it's because it was I think Rogue 1 is probably the second Star Wars movie I'd seen in theaters but the second

we have the what's the one the Skywalker Oh, I can't have this conversation with y'all. Wait, what? I would be, and that's not even a disc. Well, because, again, I was born in 1996.

So in 2005, when the last prequel movie came out, I was nine years old. I was out for the theater re-release of the original trilogy. Yeah. They did the special edition. Once again, a baby. Were you eight? Yeah, I was eight. First of all, I mean, not only did I see all the prequels of theaters,

but my grandparents had the fucking commemorative fucking fandom. This is in the movie theater going Olympics here. I'm not trying to minimize, but I'm just saying, in my opinion, I'm not trying to minimize you guys' opinion. I'm just going to be real, then, you've got to stop with this prequel shit. Like, I know you like the prequel so much,

but come up, man. It's not about liking the prequels. It's about the fact that the prequels hold a very important place in terms of Star Wars lore, and that's real. Narratively, but, like, quality of movie. Okay, so quality of movie,

Phantom Menace is a C movie. Attack of the Clones, is a D? is a D, yes. Okay. And then Revenge of the Sith is an A. Oh, it's like a... I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say a... I wouldn't say a.

Let's let's say it's a... It's a B. Revenge of the Sith is a legitimately great Star Wars. Okay, cool. I think it's a... I don't know if it's a great Star Wars movie. I'm gonna keep it good. I'm gonna keep it real with y'all.

Y'all don't love Star Wars. I'm serious, bro. Revenge of the Sith is an A. It's not an A. Plus. An A movie? It's an A Star Wars movie. Okay, but you qualified as a A Star Wars movie.

Yeah. Which I, you know, like as a film, take away the Star Wars movie. Like, as a film, some of the things, eh. I mean, a lot of these movies aren't perfect, bro. But, like, as a film, it's a good movie. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. I think it's honestly, like, I want to say underrated because people really love that movie.

But, like, when I go back and I'm like, hey, I want to watch a Star Wars movie. I go Revenge of the SIF. Word up. I mean, look, I watch it all the time. We y'all, y'all notice. Let me tell you something real quick. First of all, fuck y'all. But let me tell you out something real quick.

I'm saying we had never seen Yoda with a lightsaber in his hand before. That's cool. Ever. Ever, bro. We had never, we had no idea what Yoda looked like with a lightsaber in his hand. We hadn't seen Vader like we saw him in Rogue One. I'm not going to lie about that. But we had never, ever, ever seen Yodda.

No, can I ask you this? How has it aged? It's fantastic. I'm sure it's great. I'm sure it's fine. Yoda looks, he uses the force to summon his saber to him and says to himself, like, you want to get busy? Do cool?

No, it's not really, it's not. See, here's the thing, right? You get to that scene and you see the guys, they're like running, da-da-da, lights go down, right? And they're like, hey, man, something's coming. looking around. Everybody's nervous. Boom.

The red. That's that's cinema. That's special. Let's stop. Let's stop the cap. That's special. Steve, don't play it. Don't play it.

Don't play it. Steve. Don't play that. There is not a moment. There is not a moment across Star Wars as a whole. That's cap. That is cap. You tell me that in any Star Wars situation

a show ever. The greatest moment of Star Wars ever is Vader at the end of Rogue 1. You got too much dip on your trip. Wait, better than the Obi-Wan-Anne-Annecad can fight. See, look, that moment is special. I probably put that at number two. At number, no, bro. No, no, listen, listen, listen. Wait, wait, the fight between Vader and Lucan, Empire Strikes Back. Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. I can't talk about this. I like Empire Strikes back. It's probably my favorite Star Wars movie.

but I don't know, man. I guess maybe because I wasn't outside like that. You know, I saw it like, you know, I was 14 or whatever. The first time you saw it was on USA. It was four hours. I was watching, yeah, bro. But I'm telling you, like, no. Like, even the fight with Quigon and, and, and, and, um, Obi-Wan and.

The dual of the face? Better. What about it? Special. I would put that in my top. three as well, but that's a better moment than... I don't see... That's a way better moment, Jomey.

What are you talking about? Again, maybe if I sit, like, I was young, saw in theater, I was like, man, this is a special bro. I'm telling you, the moment he unsheaves that I was like, am I about to see some crazy stuff happen? And then the next, you know, however long that scene is, I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh my God. Like, I was, I've never, I think personally, for me, I have never been more locked in.

Ray and Kyle in the throne room. is better than the fucking... Okay, see now that's... Don't do that. Don't do that. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window?

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Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale sign storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Where is Rogue One rank in Star Wars movies for you guys? This is the top five Star Wars movie? Top five? Yes. Yeah. Okay, so give me a top five. Empire Strikes back. Number one. Probably going to go with the Last Jedi

number two, New Hope Number three. Yeah, then I'm probably going to go Rogue One, number four. Okay, so I'm going to go Empire, revenge of the Sith. That's tough. Number three is Ewalks on a force movie and a television movie from those just joking.

My way, that's just not that bad. It looks terrible if you watch it now. So I'm going to be honest with you. I'm serious about Revenge of the Sith and number two, though. Okay. All right. I'm sure. So it's Empire, it's Revenge of the Sith, it's Return of the Jedi, it's a New Hope, and then it's Rogue One.

Okay. I go Empire, Hope, Jedi, last Jedi, and then Rogue One. I think me and Steve got the same list. It's Empire. Jedi is in Return of the Jedi first, and then. Oh, Return of the Jedi? Yeah, yeah. Oh, never mind.

Okay, never mind. I have Empire Strikes Back one, The New Hope 2, yeah, The Last Jedi at 3 and Solo at 4, or not solo, sorry. Rogue 1 at 4 and then Revenge of the Sith at 5. I'll be real. You guys are being cute by putting The Last Jedi in there. Stop. I love The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi is a way better film than Revenge of it.

I love The Last Jedi. Like, you guys are being cute. being cute by putting the Last Jedi is a good movie. I'm not I don't people hate the last Jedi is a good movie. You guys are being your generation I'm serious. Your generation

is being rebelliously cute by putting the Last Jedi as a top five star award. I'm just being true. I can't take the opinion of someone who watches Revenge of the Sith more than once. Revenge of the Sith is a great movie. It's so fun

just go spend it at the crib one time. I try. I tried to spend it. You know what? How about this? How about this? How about this? Revenge of the Sith rewatch tomorrow night.

At my place. You don't need to because we can just, I could just say Van Gogh. And then you'll give us the entire Mustafa battle line for line. Yeah. You know this. But what I'm telling you is that Revenge of the Sith is, to me, it's the culmination of the bad storytelling of the first two movies. It's really the only movie that sort of. mattered in that entire thing, but I just don't understand how.

There's some, there's some laughable parts. There's some laughable parts in the movie. There are good moments in this. That movie works from the beginning all the way to the end. That is a lot. Can we please, please, that's true. That's true. I think, I, I don't understand, like, why you're so hung up on, like, the, like,

the overall trilogy, or the overall prequel trilogy of whole, like, this guy as pitfalls, it's got his stumbles. But there is something in Revenge of the Sith that over, like Van said, over the first two movies, carries over to the third that like it starts off with the space battle, like the fight with General Grievous. There are some moments in there. Anakin visiting the younglings, the order 66, that movie matters. And I'm just telling you, love The Last Jedi. And I know that you guys want to be rebellious.

And where, like, you know. Don't be in Selvan here. You guys want to be rebellious. You want to be rebellious. Everybody, Star Wars fans did like it, but it's actually great. Not really, man. I'm saying that the Last Jedi,

as good as the movie is, it also is indicative of the problem with modern Star Wars movie story. Which is what? That is not true. Which is the movie is a reaction to something more than it is a furthering of the story. That movie doesn't,

So what I mean by that is that movie, there's this great video. And I want you guys to watch it. The video is by this guy, I can't remember. And it's about why the sequel trilogy is actually an anti-Star Wars trilogy. And it shows, I'm telling you, and I've watched this a lot, and I think it has some good points. And it shows why movies that are reactions to Star Wars rather than movies that are actually further in the story and the ethos of Star Wars are, attracting from the overall lore. I never considered it until this.

The Last Jedi sets out to tell you guys something different than what you've already has without building on any real story. What happens in The Last Jedi that actually ends up mattering in the trilogy? I mean, well, when you bring in another director who is just like, we're bringing back Palpatine, I don't think that you can blame Ryan Johnson for like... I'm not blaming him. I'm not blaming him at all. I'm not blaming Ryan Johnson.

but what I'm saying is that that particular movie is a good movie, but it was a pathway to really know it. I mean, at the same time, though, you make the argument that, like, it's the last Jedi's reaction to, you know, anti-star Wars

or whatever. I would argue that Rise of Skywalker is a more extreme example. All three of the movies, all three of the movies get, the movies get, like, progressively more reactionary as they came out.

Yeah. Even like the first movie is a reaction to a prequel trilogy. The prequel trilogy, hey, that's not Star Wars, political, all of these machinations and stuff like that, that's not Star Wars. This is Star Wars. Does it just remake a new hope? Yeah. The second movie is a reaction to the first one.

Okay, well, let's do something new and different. Let's have Luke Skywalker, right? A guy who literally put his entire life on his line and not just his life, but the lives of the whole galaxy on the line for his friends more than any time ever. let's have him take his lightsaber and throw it behind him into the water when the fate of the galaxy is on the line

it's just like narratively for the arc of Skywalker and for all it doesn't make very much sense in the story I'm just saying that if you are going to blame the sequel trilogy as being the thing that ruins Star Wars I'm like no there's always been a give and take

with these movies I've called for the decanonization of the sequel trilogy I'll put to you this day What do you think is better? The prequel trilogy or the sequel trilogy? The prequel trilogy This is what? I do.

The prequel trilogy. You can't have two of those movies are unwatchable. The sequel trilogy has the single worst Star Wars movie ever made. The sequel trilogy has the single worst Star Wars movie ever. We're here. We're here. Yes, sir. It's a single worst star was movie ever made.

It's the worst thing I've ever watched. On average, Force Awakens and the Last Jedi Are far better movies Than the Phantom Menace and Attack of Women. Okay, so here's the deal. I'm actually not going to disagree with that. The Force Awakens,

Phantom Menace has aged way better than the Force Awakens ages. The Force Awakens, now, it was cool we went to movies to see it, but the more we litigated that movie, the less watchable Force Awakens is. Phantom Menace only gets better over time. That is, can we please,

move on? Let's move on. Yeah, let's go down there. One of these movies have Jar Jar Binks in it and the other don't. I mean, you're right. You don't like Jar Jor Binks because he's portrayed as being black. And that's the thing. Shout out to I'm my best.

You know what I mean? Jar Jar Jor Jad Jard ended up, Jar Jard Jive. I mean, for me, it's... The Rise of Skywalker is the Nadeer, like, truly. And, like, I've been on the record saying this, like, a million times. But I'll say it again. Like, it's one of the worst, like, things in fandom like we've ever seen.

Legitimately... All right. An awful. No, no, no, no, no. Let's be clear. It's a bad movie. Let's be very clear. Legitimately one of the sickest things.

I've seen fantastic for the rise of the Super Surfer. We've ever. No, no, no, no. But that was an accent. Like, I would say that was an accent. Like, you know, those things happen. You make bad movies. I don't know.

This one was like catered. I mean, it's bad. Yes, it's bad. They did this on purpose. So, real quick, we didn't even give the chance to give the rankings. By the way, what was going to say earlier is just real quick. let's say that Donnie Ann's character would have just, like, filed a lightsaber

and he was using it. How dope with that. Doug, I was watching a movie last night. I'm like, well, this guy, he is a Jedi, basically a Jedi. Wait, does he, all right, so he is close with the force. He's in tuned with the force.

But I'm always confused when I watch the movie, like what are the extent of his powers? It doesn't seem like he can use the force in terms of like pushing anything, pulling anything, but he's in tune with it enough at the end of the movie to walk through a,

battlefield and not get shot. And you can argue whether or not he's like doing that with his mind or if he's like it's like an exercise of faith. I consider it more of like a Jedi intern that he's kind of in there where like maybe he's training, maybe he's just only like the maximum of his power

is like the most weakest Jedi. So he's a good college basketball player but doesn't have what he thinks of make. He's not going to go pro. He's not going pro. I think there are levels of force sensitivity too, but also being attuned and in line with the force is I mean, there are people who aren't force sensitive

who, like, I think Han Solo has a latent force sensitivity. There. Yeah, you know what I mean? I think a lot of people that we think of is just being like super dope pilots, like whatever, whatever. I think Han Solo has latent force sensitivity.

Chirut took a bowcaster and shot a tie fighter. Yeah. As a blind man. That's, I'm giving that guy. That's the force. No, he shoots it at the perfect time and it crashes into the building. So.

That's special. All right. Midnight meter rank. R-W-1. So, Mid-N-N-N-N-Media, of course, for those unfamiliar with the Mid-N-N-N-N-A-Meter is where we rank

a film on a scale of 1-12. The normal rankings are 1-10. Anything above is reserved only for timeless, game-changing movies and shows. So with that being said, you guys, what is your Mid-N-N-M-M-A-M-Rank-1?

I'm going to give this to 10 on the Mid-N-N-N-N-N-B-W-N. I would give it, I would, I'll give it a 10. I'll give it a 10. Okay, Steve? That's right. It's a 9. It's a 9. It's a nine on the midnight meter.

Yes. Interesting. I'm with Chuck. I give it a 10. The only reason is, the only reason why it's not an 11, to be honest with you. Darth Vader pun. Is because I'm comparing it to other Star Wars that are 12s and 11th. Sure.

What are the 12s and 11th? Empire is the 12th. Yeah. I think a new hope. You're going to say Revenge of the Sith is 11. It's not. Revenge of the Sith is an 11. Revenge of the Sith is an 11.

This is wild. This is wild. The first three are 11s, and the first one is a 12th, the 2 are 11s, and then, you know, you got 10s. I don't care what you got to say. I'll fuck with Revenge of the Sith. Crazy. It's great. On to Andor.

The show comes out as a three-episode premiere on September 21st. The series follows Thief-turned-Remble spy Cassie and Andor, played by Diego Luna. during the five years before the events of the film. How hype are we for the show? What about it seems the most compelling, guys? Well, you know, just we saw a good look at Sarva Celebration when we went. And it just, it looks spectacular. Like, you know, seeing the empire at full power,

seeing the opposite of that with how, you know, some of the people are living in squalor and how just, you know, nasty and dirty and how they were looked like it was scraping by. Nasty and dirt. Listen, I mean, you saw it. You saw it that was living in dirt,

bro. You know? Hans Solo got a taste. It just, it looks special and I can't honestly can't wait to tap it. Van, Charles, we were in the office session. Yo, Chris Ryan.

Chris Ryan. He riding for this shit. Chris Ryan put some gas into this thing. He came out, he was like, seeing the first episode. I'm quoting, Chris Ryan directly. Tony Gilroy blacked out.

This thing's incredible. Chris Ryan, just got all the members of the CR Army. Your captain, oh, captain, my captain is loving. Straight cast. So I'm hyped.

I can't wait. I mean, I'm going to be real. Like, I do think that, like, Tony Gilroy is going to kill this shit. And I just need a show that I, like,

I think after Book of Boba Fett, I think Book of Boba Fett had such a cool, um, idea behind it in terms of, like, showing the screen. criminal underworld and all these things. And I think, you know, after watching that, you left with this feeling of like, okay, we want this world to be more realized. We want it to be more

authentic. And I think Tony Gilroy kind of has that in him to, like, create this underbelly of the galaxy to show us what it really means to be a rebel, what it really means to start a rebellion. And if they can, it looks beautiful. If they can land that, man, the rest of these Star Wars series got to tuck they summer in, bro. They gotta be like They gotta go back to the lab For real Three beats a day for five summers

Okay Steve Co-signed everything that Charles said I think that the biggest thing That I would want to hope for Is The exact same thing that brought us here For Rogue One

It's that compelling Grounded Story of the people Where I want this to be Like Something that could illuminate a world Like The Last Airbender

where we get to see the people, we get to see places that we've never seen before, contexts of powers and political sentiment that we haven't talked about before. I think this is going to be great. I'm really, really excited. Cautiously optimistic. I'm hoping that it's great.

I think that it will be. If it's not, can we invite Chris on the pot? Look, we can't. I think it will be. I believe in Chris Ryan. I believe in him. Right. So for me, you know,

the show always looked great, but more than looking great, it felt great. there's a feeling that you got when you saw the show and like seeing the whatever footage that we got the feeling a lot of times you can

look at something and you can I don't know that was you a teacher you don't feel it yeah like I don't feel it you can look at and or while my hopes are high

and feel the texture of it and a weight to it a presence and the power you know and that's what you feel when you look at the Black Adam trailer oh I didn't want to bring it up I don't want to bring it up.

Right. But I do think the hierarchy of power in the Star Wars universe is about to be changed by Tony Gill, right? Can I ask you guys a question? What could Andor do that would make the show a failure to you? Like what, like how? Well, I'm asking. In a most spectacular way?

What I'm saying is, if the show doesn't do this, you'll feel like it's failed. I'm not even thinking. I can't. I can't. I'm not in this negative mind state. I can't even think about it. If they don't, if they don't carry, like,

so we know the casting and or from Rogue One, right? We know what it is. Like, we know who that guy is. If Diego Ludo shows up and we assume he's going to be somebody who's the complete opposite of where he's supposed to be. If that story doesn't hold water, if it doesn't carry like it's supposed to, if we're not invested in that character and the changes that he makes in his life,

or what happens to him that makes him the casting Andor in Rogue 1 If that falls flat, then the show doesn't work. Another question. Will there be a lightsaber in Andor? No. Yes. I mean, whose lightsaber would it be?

It doesn't matter. A lightsaber. A lightsaber? An ignited lightsaber. It's going to be... It's going to be Canaan. It's going to show up with a lightsaber. It's going to be great.

I love it. Jesus, brough. Are we going to be going to be? I'll order 60s. Fucking lose it. If Canaan shows up with a lightsaber, and I will fucking lose it, man. I fucking go nuts if that happens, bro. It's going to go to a little fall.

It's going to be great. So you're saying yes. I'm saying no. I can't imagine who in that time, aside from Darth Vader, would be out there. I mean, it's my longstanding thing where there has yet to be a Star Wars. There's yet to be a season of a show, a property, anything that has not had a lightsaber in it.

You need a lightsaber. But it's like, you kind of need it. But you do. It's kind of just been my challenge where I'm like, is this going to be the one? Are they just not going to do it? And they probably will. But I hope that they don't know you want you like lightsabers. It's not that I don't like lightsabers. It's just, I'm like, can you do it

without one? Like, can you just try? But why would you though? It's not that. I'm just like, like, this is a thought experiment at this point. Yeah. Like, can there ever be a Star Wars thing? What was the lightsaber? Who had a lightsaber and Boba fit? Luke was in, oh, he was. Yeah, it's like a whole two episode thing.

I think of that as a different show. Luke had it. Also, the Dark Sabre. Dark Saber. Dark Saber. Dark Saber counts. Yeah. Dark Saber is not quite.

A Jedi had the Dark Sabre. It's a, it's a lightsaber. It doesn't matter because Luke ignited his own lightsaber. Respect of the Klan, man. Yeah, Luke and actually they showed two lightsaber. Yeah. He was like, yeah, he was giving a lightsaber. The Yoda's lightsaber.

That's still bullshit. How does fucking Luke have it? I'm just saying. No lightsabers in and or. Here we go. We're getting ready to talk about the House of the Dragon. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming.

I want to set the scene for y'all really quick. I'm in L.A. I went to Van Lathen's beautiful, beautiful abode. Can I say we had the most awkward time watching the most recent House of the Dragon? It was interesting. It was probably the most awkward I've ever felt. There's an image that I have of Damien and Reneira in that pleasure house. And I look around every single person is on their phones.

And it's not because we're bored. It's because none of us want to collectively look at what's happening on screen. We're all on the phones, but Jomi was rubbing his nipples. Oh, my God. When that happened. Oh, please. I heard somebody go, uh, I'm like, what the fuck, Jones? What's going on?

Can I say something that you have to promise to redact, Stephen? Uh, deep shadow? Yeah. Hello, Ring ofverse fans. I regret to inform you that due to the initiation of Deep Shadow Protocol, this bit had to be edited out of the pod. I know. I'm just as disappointed as you are.

Thanks as always for listening. And the Midnight Boys, Poo Poo Poo! We'll get back to you shortly. I'm not doing this. No, absolutely not. I'm so glad that we, like, that was just deep, like, we cut that, that was deep shadow. Because that is far and away the worst thing that I've learned in my star-life. You just say this stuff so that you know that I'll cut it and then when I come back, we're just mad.

Just redact it. It's fine. You didn't answer the question, though. That's sick. That's so nasty. Come on. Okay. I think what I want to ask is, Van, I remember you saying that that wasn't the most exciting

episode of House of the Dragon that you've seen have you come around on it, liking it? No. No. Really? No, not really. It was good TV, man. That was good TV, bro.

It was cool. Aside for, like, the, you know, incest and the sexual harassment. It was, it was cool. It was cool. It was just, like, it was the weakest of all the episodes to be at this point. It was cool. It wasn't bad. But, look, we remember Game of Thrones.

They weren't all bangers. There was something where you were like, there was something where you were like, all right, man, like, well, we're going to get to the thing. Because shows do this thing to where they start, and this didn't happen with House of the Dragon, but they start you on this central plot train, and then they can't get there fast enough, so they go, okay, let's take an adventure with somebody outwondering the countryside.

That wasn't one of them. I just said that wasn't one of them. Then what's your point? My point is that this episode, to me, was a little bit of a breather. It laid some very, very, very important plot groundwork. Very important plot groundwork. When we see, you know, for anybody that's rare fire and blood, like, it's a very important plot groundwork.

But, you know, took a little time off. It was like, you know. Seeing Damon, like, get to the point where he has this, these machinations that really make you think of the character in a different way, because there's the evil part of him who is going to use his niece to get the throne. But also there's a part of him that does almost feel like it has some type of affection for her. and realizing how how depraved you have to be

to be like I'm going to essentially sacrifice her on this pyre to get to the Iron Throne I was just like okay I'm tapped Mal and Joe really illustrated pretty well you can see the conflict on Damien's face when you can see him thinking about what he is doing and like the consequences of what might come of this

because in this episode and episodes prior there is genuine affection that he has for Renier Like, they're attracted to each other. But also as, but like also as a familial, like, like, you believe that he's sorry for her at her mother's funeral. Like, you believe that he's like. It looks trying to. Now everything looks different.

Exactly. But I also, I think he has a respect for her in a way where he doesn't have for Vassaris, who is an idiot. I think there's a mutual kind of just like, oh, no, we're the only two in this family who, like, can play this chess match. Right. It's almost like a loving relationship. and also like this is my opponent. There's a lot of like messy things going on here, but like there's a lot of good nuanced performances from both.

Well, hold on on for Saris now. Like he kind of, you know, he's still a dummy, but he wised up on Otto finally. Yeah, but here's the thing. With somebody else's help. It took Renera to be like, hey, bro, come on, come on. But I mean, you know, but I think Otto would have had to, I mean, I don't think Versaeris would have stones,

even with it, I think, you know, with the whole Renera, you know, Damon thing, it was just finally like, I've had enough, bro. But can I say the sex scene between Allison and Vassaris is one of the most disgusting things I've ever. It's probably even worse than, it's even worse than Damon. He's riding.

The back is right. It was like, bro. Yeah. I mean, the stretch from Damon and Reneer in the pleasure house to even Reneer with Sir Christian Cole, that entire, what, 10 minute, 15 minute stretch is just some of the hardest television I've watched. It was just all of those girls. A lot of women out there claim that they've had rotten sex.

But she really had some rotten sex. Oh, boy. Oh, hey, Steve, give me a rim shot right there, brother. Uh-uh. No, fuck you. No, rim shot? Really? I really need a van to get too far drop.

All right. You guys, that is a wrap. Me and the pseudo Star Wars fans. Sudo-Sahling. Both. Listen, you'd even get to my big take. We even get to my big take. What's your big take?

This and or is a start of a three-peep, right? we're getting we're gonna get Andor that's chip number one you know made it back to the mountaintop Mandalorian season three chip number two

back to back and in the third one Asoka Asoka I could never agree with Jomi Moore but now I'll ask you this

does the hierarchy of power in the Disney across universe change Thursday but I'll answer this does the hierarchy of power

in the Disney plus universe change if we get a 3P and does Star Wars start looking at Marvel like, bro, you can't even come to Jim no more. Not really. There's not really Marvel film. There's no Star Wars films.

That's a wrap. Thursday, Ben Lindberg and Joanna Robinson return to break down episode five of Sheihulk Friday. House of OurR will be deep diving into the fourth episode of Rings of Power. Saturday, Jomi and Steve are giving you their Harley Quinn season three thoughts. This Sunday Talk the Thrones is back again as Chris Ryan, Mal and Joe, give you their instant reactions to House of the Dragon. right after the episode is done. Credits. Our producer is Steve, the architect Alman.

Jomi, the explainer, the enforcer. Adirondon is on social. Hashtag Jomarian? Marion. Jomarian. Oh, my God. Jammarion! I got a Likesbox where my heart used to me.

Hashtag Jamarion. Hashtag Jamarion on social media and additional production. from Arjula Rompahov. Thank you to the suit. Charles takes out. Sometimes the Midnight Boys takes our hit,

other times they're a miss. Van is smoking crack every single time he talks about revenge of the sin. Wait, did, wait, not to, we're going to get back to Rogue One. Did Black Widow and Bruce ever have sex? Is the Hulk capable of having sex? As bad or he can have sex?

Whoa. We'll remember in Incredible Hulk, he and Betty are in a hotel room. And they're getting high and heavy. And the watch monitor wasn't yet. But this is years after that, though. So I think he's learned how to control the Horny Hulk. I think Horny Hulk, he's probably learned how to control the-

Do you think smart? Do you think smart Hulk? I was wrong about Steve Rogers. Do you think Smart Hulk has like... You can't, come on, man. You can't have sex if you're Smart Hulk. Wait, why not? As Hulk, I don't think he can have sex with people that are Hulk.

I think he has to have sex with other hulks. I do. There's not a lot. Of the mouth there, bro. And with that, House of the Dragon. I'm just saying, yeah, baby. But like I'm saying, I think he, or when he goes to Sarkar, I think he can only have sex with other Hulks as Hulk.

You can't have sex with a normal lady as hope or a normal guy. You can't have sex. But it's like, we got like his banner out on the streets like that. I don't think so. I think Smart Hulk has had his fun. Why do we assume that like these people aren't having sex? was having sex, that would be like 12 years of no sex. Literally, but here's the thing, to their point,

an Incredible Hulk, he has a little heart monitor. But Incredible Hulk, he also, at the end of the movie, he does learn to control it. He learns how to control it, but. So at the end of the movie, he learns, he's definitely, he has had some sex. Think about how dangerous it would be to have a banner who never has sex.

Oh, Horny Hulk would be so scary. Horny Hulk is really dangerous for the world. He definitely going to smash. I kind of, but I feel like he's pragmatic enough to be like, listen, I could do this, but God forbid anything, it gets too crazy, I might just destroy this entire place. My last point, you know what? Actually, Banner went to Stark and he's like, yo, Tony, can you make me an iron broad sex robot? No, no, no, no, no. To have sex with assholes.

No. That, come on. You guys can't deny. Be honest. No. Lies. You guys can't dismiss me. You can't just miss that.

Like, I need a sex contraption. I wonder what kind of stuff, because think about it. No. Tony probably had to build some stuff like that. No, I don't think so. I'm out on that. I bet it would, man. Think about all.

I'm out. You got to be more mature, you do. You do have to be more mature. The math doesn't, the man's not really manthing on that. How? Why? So they build stuff for it. So, so clean, so Tony's building all of this stuff.

Because Tony was a freak. You're telling me that Tony couldn't read, reconfigure the Hulkbuster into something a little bit voluptuous. Into a hole buster. The nutbusters. The nutbuster. It lives in space. What?

It lives in space. What? He presses a button. Hulk is like. Bring it ferrith. Holt is like, yo, man, shit. It's been a long time, man.

I've been lullabyed like three times. He's like, don't worry. Don't worry. Bring in, what was her name? Veronica. It wouldn't be Veronica. It would be Betty.

Betty. Well, Betty's actual... It would be... Oh, Betty, but they use Betty. They use Betty, exactly. So it definitely would be named Betty. It would be named Betty Ross. Bring in to Betty Ross.

Yeah, I don't think that's how that would go down. Well, we found our post-grade. Right. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention.

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