The Ringer-Verse - ‘The Suicide Squad’ Spoilers Reaction | Movie Monday

Episode Date: August 10, 2021

The Midnight Boys, Van Lathan and Charles Holmes, are joined by Mallory Rubin to discuss the latest DCEU film, ‘The Suicide Squad,’ directed by James Gunn. They talk about some of their favorite characters and what they brought to this action-packed superhero film (04:24). They also give out their awards for their favorite action scene, favorite joke, movie MVP, and more (87:52). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringers Charles Holmes and co-host Grace Spellman present the most notorious new podcast in the industry, the Ringer Music Show. Every Tuesday, they'll bring you the latest news, the hottest takes, and the deepest reporting about the wild world of music and the chaotic industry that creates it. Check out the Ringer Music Show exclusively on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

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See terms at fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Robert Dubois. He's in prison for putting Superman in the ICU with a kryptonite. I'm not joining your suicide squad. We'll see. My court date is coming up. And Miss Waller said maybe you could help me out. You'll stretch it in my door out.

Everyone stand down. Miss Waller, I don't need that. Stand down! Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringers' Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. And we are in the middle of a movie Monday here, guys. This is a very, very special Ring ofverse pod. This is the thing about what we do here at the Ring ofverse.

We have our regular jobs, our day jobs here, of giving you the best in the content that comes out. But then sometimes we have to do special editions. We give you special one-shots because there are big, huge things that happen in fandom. And this movie is one of them. This is a special movie Monday edition of the Suicide Squad. That is the movie, The Suicide Squad. the Suicide Squad, or once again,

DC's a tip to rebrand and revamp, a title that came out a couple of years ago to so-so acclaim we are going to give you our instant reactions to how they did with that. Now,

this is the crew. Of course, you have myself Van Lathen, host of Higher Learning with Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay, with my partner, Charles Holmes, host of the Ringer Music show. You know who we are. We are the Midnight boys. But we also have, wow, it's a team up.

This is a big deal. We're also, you know the laugh. You guys already know who it is. We're also joined by our counterpart over at the House of Mal. Mallory Rubin is going to give us some huge artillery on this one today. Task Force RV. Let's go. This feels like the midnight mafia.

This feels like all the families coming together. You know what I'm saying? Midnight mafia. Having a break bread. Had to get the squad together. The house of midnight. The house of midnight. I love it.

That's us. The house of midnight. Okay, so just a reminder is later on this week. We are going to start covering the MCUs. What If? Of course, now, you know, we're going to get deep into that, the next MCU offering. A show that threatens to change the trajectory. of the MCU as we know it.

And it seems to be the subject of a lot of conversation and a little controversy amongst the fandom. Wednesday, the Midnight Boys are going to get on that. And then Friday, of course, Mallory over at the House of Mal to give us the much smarter, the much more introspective, the actual analysis and deep dive. Remember, guys, this is for you, Facebook. The Midnight Boys is an instant reaction show.

Mal, by the way, before we get to that, that was a great episode on the Green Knight. Thanks, man. That's kind of you to say. I love an Arthurian legend. I love a quest, you know? Green Night pissed me off, ma'am. Oh, no. It is already going wrong.

You weren't into the Fox? You weren't into the handjob? The Fox was the best part of the movie by far. I will not spoil Green Night for anyone. I'm being reminded right now to not spoil a green night. But I will tell you this, and this is the mark of a really good movie. podcast is that I found myself, I wasn't the biggest fan of Green

Night, but after listening to you guys, I found myself wanted to revisit it and see if there were things that I missed to maybe, you know, enjoy the movie a little bit better. So I feel like you guys did a really, really good job over there. Thanks, man. It's really nice. All right, you guys, it's that time. The pleasantries are over.

We have to get into the suicide squad. I know we have to do this every single time, even though you guys know this is an instant reaction podcast. We still have to do this. So Steve, give it to him. We're getting ready to talk about the movies. You're listening to a reaction podcast.

The spoilers are coming. A James Gun Level needle drop right there. Exactly. People should be here. Yeah. So we got company here. So I guess I'll start off with, like, how excited were you to see this movie? going into it, what were your thoughts on Suicide Squad as an IP period?

Had you punted on it after the last movie? No, I had not punted on it after the last movie. You know, I love movies. I love comic books. I love comic book movies. And so almost always with very few exceptions, I go in with an open mind, an open heart. You know, over in the MCU,

Guardians and Guardians Volume 2 are some of my favorite MCU movies. I've really loved what James Gun has done in the MCU and so I was really excited to see the James Gunn version of the Suicide Squad and more broadly to see the James Gun

energy inside of the DCU. I will say this is probably a not a Charles level take but maybe a controversial take. We five minutes in. Let's get it. Talk, man. Let me just let me just say that I did not despise the 2016 Suicide Squad movie.

I mean, I am not saying that it is a great movie. I am not saying that, to be clear. But that movie is a 26% on Rotten Tomatoes and is pretty widely derided. And, you know, if you revisit it, there is some stuff to like. It gave us some stuff to hold on to and build from. we get Harley and Waller and Flag right back in this movie. Now we get a lot of new stuff,

a lot of new energy, different visual and aesthetic template, different vibe. This is a much, much, much, much, much better movie, but 26% always seemed just a bit harsh to me. I'm going to push that take a little bit further.

I'm going to get real spicy here. You love that movie and it's your favorite ever? It's not my favorite ever, but I remember seeing it. I was like, Only with Ultron? Yeah, not that bad. Not that bad of a movie.

I call the original Suicide Squad. It's like a Black Uncle movie. Like, he still has cable. And, like, he will, like, sit there and watch, like, Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern and have nothing wrong with it. He's like, this is a good movie. So, like, I, like, the original Suicide Squad is, like, a TNT. I'm visiting my Black Uncle. We're going to sit down and we're just going to watch a bad movie.

And I'm going to be entertained. Like, I think it's not that bad. Like, maybe I would give it, like, a 65, like, failing still. but not as bad as people thought it was. As a question, do white uncles not do this? This is just a black uncle that wastes an afternoon on a bad movie. I think I don't have a weight uncle, so I don't know. Mallory, does your uncle watch the Green Lantern at home on TNT when it comes on?

You know, I don't know how tapped in my uncles are to the DCU or any superhero movies in general. It's a good question. I'll check in and get back to you. See, here's the thing about the original. original suicide squad. So, and that's why I feel like people like us aren't in the best position to actually judge how good or bad these movies are. Because we're going to find something like by and large.

Like most of the time we're going to find something alike. Most of the time we're going to sit down and we're going to say, hey, I had never seen Harley Quinn on screen live action before. So just watching that was delightful. it was just kind of seeing that was super amazing, right? But I've given that movie as many chances as I can. That's a bad movie. It's not, it's not, it's not a horribly bad movie.

Speaking of Ryan Riddles Green Lanard, it's not to that level. It's a good bad movie. Like, it's a bad movie, but it's entertainingly bad. Right, right. So I guess coming into this one, did this film have to be marginally better? Did it have to be a whole new take? that it had to be a breath of fresh air,

what were you looking for out of this film to make it a success to you in terms of comparing it to the last film? I think it just had to feel like its own movie. And I think that, you know, to get back to that larger question of the suicide squad IP and what is interesting

and what is appealing about it and why it's, you know, like ripe earth and rich fodder to explore, you know, it's an interesting and kind of inherently fun franchise. There's a violence to it or rawness, like an edginess,

but it's also really odd and weird. I think it's a perfect fit for James Gunn. We'll, I'm sure, talk throughout the pot today about the parallels and distinctions between this movie and the Guardians franchise, but one of the commonalities, of course, is these aren't the bold name

like flashing light characters in the canon. And that's a good thing because it allows gun as both writer and director to, you know, show you something new that feels fresh and, like, highly specific. And because of the ensemble nature, the squad building nature, there's a chance for one of my favorite things about superhero and comic book movies and stories in general, which is the surprise of a new pairing, the surprise of something that you haven't seen before. And so that's one of the things that I was looking forward to the most heading into this movie.

And I think it really, really delivered in that respect and many others and was just overall, like, so confidently made. It knows exactly what kind of movie it wants to be. And it is that from the opening note until the credits finish rolling. And I think that that's not only why it was fun to watch the first time, but why it will be really fun to continue to return to time and time again. Charles? I don't want to do it, man.

You're going to do it. I know that I already know you're going to do it. Me and Marty Scorsese, you know, we were having brunch yesterday. And he's like, you have to be strong enough, Charles. And I'm like, I don't know if I am, Martin. I don't know if I am. Okay. I thought that this movie, like, I thought it was a championship.

This was like Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, and James Hart. I was like, anything that's like not a championship, like, is bust to me. That's how much I had for this movie. It's like there's no way it's going to be bad. There's no way. There's absolutely no way. And, uh, who, I, I was disappointed.

I didn't win a championship for me. They got to the Eastern Conference finals and it just, it wasn't it. I don't. I'm sad. Like, I'm really sad. I don't even know how to talk about the movie. I wanted so much more.

Okay. Well, so first of all, before we dive into this, this is what the movie had to do for me. It had to justify being made. And when I say justified being made, I mean, we saw the suicide squad. I know you guys are salivating as you're listening.

right now to get back to Charles so we can kick him into this nuts a little bit, and we will. But the movie had to justify being made because there's a lot going on in comic book movie cinema right now. There's a lot of content out there. To come back and revisit the Suicide Squad, which seemed like from the last movie,

which was an idea that didn't really work, for them to come back and give a whole fresh take, put some new stars on the screen, really rescue James Gunn from a huge, huge issue that he had over there, a public relations disaster that was going on. And I think it's very easy to forget what James Gunn was going through with Marvel and what had happened with him and Disney prior to him beginning made, prior to this movie.

There were a lot of risks on the table, right? And so the movie basically had to be good enough for me to be like, okay, I understand why they got, why they made this. Because at first, I was like, we're going back to the suicide squad. You already kicked the can on them. Let's see something new, D.C., you need a hit. And by that metric and by many others, the movie was a resounding success to me. A resounding success.

I enjoyed it. D.C. has a problem building characters that you cared about. At the end of this film, I believe that these people loved each other, that they have found a common ground. they had a rat that I want to hug. Sebastian. MVP. Unbelievable. King, like King Shark learned how to trust and made some friends. I thought that the movie delivered.

Charles, before we even get into the 90 second recap, because we're going to have a lot of time to talk about the film. It's a longer film. Where did it fail for you? I think the film was closer to like Guardians of the Galaxy 2 than it was Guardians of the Galaxy 2. than it was Guardians of the Galaxy. And for those at home,

Guardians of the Galaxy is like a top five just superhero movie of all time for me. I love that movie. And I think, yes, some of the story choices didn't work. I think a lot of the jokes for me

didn't land. And that's probably why I have not the best taste in my mouth. And then just, I think I had an issue with it in the same way I had an issue with like Falcon and the Winter Soldier or Wanda Vision

or like Wonder Woman 1984 where it's like trying to dissect these like lofty political and like racial like all these things and never quite lands it. And I was just like I, I didn't hate the movie. I didn't think it was the worst movie ever. I think it's a good superhero movie. I just think because I hold James Gunn in such a high regard, I thought he would have stuck the landing a little bit more. You guys are about to go. No, we're not. No, no, no, we're not. What we're going to do now is we're going to get into the 90 second recap of the film. and then on the other side of it, I'm going to kill you.

So we're going to go ahead and recap the film for the fans real quick. And then on the other side of it, I'm just going to take that apart real quick. I'm not going to get emotional about it. Listen, people have been talking to me, hey, you get emotional. You say stuff. I'm not going to get emotional. I'm not going to do that. Who's going to go emotional?

I read the comments. Van is emotional. Van goes off the deep end. Not going to happen this time. I'm not going to do it. What I'm going to do is I'm going to very calmly address you on the other side because I can't believe you would show up here today. and throw cold water on what was one of the best DCEU entries in the entire thing.

They haven't been very many. And you're not letting us, you're not letting us. I thought that was a very measured take. But unlike the movie itself, Van is going to wait until after the opening credits, the 90 second recap for the full annihilation, right? Exactly. That's fine. I'm ready for it.

I'm ready for it. Beach one and Beach two and reverse order here. Right. All right. So we're going to do something a little different here. We're going to do a 90 second recap. where each one of us are going to have a part to play in this. Guys, you know how skilled I am at these 90-second recap.

So adding a dimension to it is just going to be a joy to do. All right. So, Steve, give me 90 seconds on the clock in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. We start with Savant, killing a bird with a ball, and being recruited by Amanda Waller into the suicide. Side Squad, Rick Flagg, Harley Quinn, Savant, Captain Boomerang, Black Guard, TDK, Javelin, Mongol, and Weasem. They head out on their mission, head to Corto Matisse, recently overthrown and taken over by new management, not friendly to America, and destroyed the Nazi-era lab, Yodenheim, which holds

something called Project Starfish. Squad is ambushed on the beach, and everyone but Harley and Rick are brutally murdered. Quinn is captured by the military, and Flag is seemingly captured by rebel fighters. Meanwhile, the real squad, Bloodsport, Peacemaker, Ratcatcher 2, King Shark, and Polkaid Man are revealed on another beach. The squad locate Rick, accidentally killing all the rebels who were not forcibly holding Rick, back to Harley, who's taken to Silvio Luna, the new dictator of Corto Maltese.

After a steamy romance, Luna reveals that he will use Project Starfish to control people. Quinn sadly has to murder Luna because she promised herself she wouldn't date man with red flags. The General Mateo Suarez becomes a new president and orders Quinn to be. torture. Back with our regular squad, they go to a nightclub, get drunk, and capture the thinker. Learning that Harley is captured, they go to rescue her, but find that she's already saved herself. Finally, the squad is fully united and head to Jottenheim for their objective. Task Force X easily infiltrate the lab, take down a bunch of guys and split into two teams to plant charges. Rick, Rat Catcher 2, and the thinker head to the basement where peacemaker follows, despite being told to go with blood support.

Oh, no! It's impossible. Van, Van ate up my time. Can I be honest with you? It's impossible. I mean, this is... Like, to be honest with you, let me tell you something real quick. What a window into the process.

Yeah, Mal, this is how it goes. It's impossible. Oh, my goodness. Like, this is longer than the Wikipedia plot entry. I will say that. I was barely halfway through the script here. I was told, hey, Van, when you do these recaps, don't fall into mish-mesh, don't try to go too fast.

read it out but just go at a quick pace. You guys hit every second of every beat. You guys hit every second of every beat. That's end the thing. It's impossible. I'm blaming production here. And you've embarrassed me in front of mouth. Like, I'm just letting you guys know.

It's impossible. Charles, I apologize to you. It's not your fault. Van tried his best. Van really, really tried his best. You know what I'm saying? I should I just finish it? Should I finish it?

Should I finish it? Just finish it at a regular pace so we can get out of here. All right, so Peacemaker follows despite being told to go with Bloodsport, Harley, polka dot man, King's Shark, and Milton, the bus driver. At the lower levels, the thinker reveals that Project Star is actually Star of the Conqueror, a giant alien who can control people with smaller versions of himself. America actually hired the thinker to conduct experiments on the alien for 30 years so they could figure out how to use it themselves.

Rick wants to release the evidence to the public, but Peacemaker ends him, and Staro escapes his confinement and reps the thinker to pieces. Cut to our team on the top levels earlier who are attacked and accidentally set off the charges early, causing a large explosion. Bloodsport goes crashing down through the building, arriving just in time to see Peacemaker, ready to kill Rat Catcher 2, grab the drive of incriminating evidence. The smaller bullet always wins. Peacemaker dies, or so we think.

Bloodsport grabs the drive. The remaining squad, Bloodsport, Harley, Rat catcher two, King Shark, Pokedatman, escape the crumbling building. Unfortunately, so to Staro. Our big alien pal is pissed. And honestly, who can blame him? 30 years of being prodded and tortured decides, you know what, I'm going to try something new, like conquering the city. Waller says, uh, the mission's over.

But our suicide squad has another idea. I'm going to try the old hero gig for a minute here. Go and save the island. Waller decides she's going to press the buttons, blow up their heads. But mutiny, Waller's team shouts to flow, take her out of commission with a club to the head, aid the squad. Polka dot man, shouting about the joys of being a superhero then gets brutally crushed to death, very tough stuff. King Shark, little nom nom, and then gets tossed halfway across the island. Bloodsport runs out of weapons.

It's all going wrong. on two. Miguel Cleo, rat catcher too, utilizes her magic rat wand summoning all of the rats of the island to take down Starro. Harley, she knows what that javelin is for. Pierce's

giant eye allows all the rats led by the hero Sebastian inside to kill Starro from within. The island is saved. Bloodsport. Then blackmail's Waller with the evidence for their

freedom as the movie ends with him finally warming up to our little furry friend who curls up on his knee gets a little pet on the head. Protect Sebastian! Yes, protect Sebastian at all costs. But wait, mid-credit scene, Weasel, who seemingly drowned at the very beginning of the movie, has survived. But he's not the only one as Peacemaker is revealed to have survived the post-credit scene, which is, of course, setting up the HBO Max Peacemaker Spent Off series. So Charles, we already talked a little bit about our feelings about the film earlier. And it's obvious that Charles felt the movie fell a little short. My review of the film is pretty simple.

Funny, a lot of gore, a lot of action, which is interesting to me because, remember, this is James Gunn just coming off having worked with Marvel. So you can tell that this is him, because the movie in places is a little bit, we're talking about Django on Chain level, splat, blow up, shoot you with a gun, your head explodes. So in a way,

he's making a movie that's to fuck you to the Marvel system that he had just been in for a while that had had his hands tied in terms of what he could do.

This is a guy that has a background and the finest of B movies, the trauma films. So he brought, and shout out to Sean Fennacy,

who noted this on Twitter, he brought a little bit of this to this film and I thought it worked perfectly. I thought the movie was, there was so many little parts

of the film that I, that I enjoyed. The overhead projector joke was perfect. Oh my God, I loved that. Like the overhead projector joke is perfect. I haven't seen one of those in a long time. Yeah, felt like I was back in elementary school.

Exactly. And Waller's dismissiveness of it is what made it. Viola is just amazing and everything that she does. So I thought the movie was funny. I thought it was gory. I, this is the only film I've ever liked John Cena in. Ever. Wow.

When I say ever, I don't dick. I don't think this is the only movie I ever liked John Cena in and I thought he did a really good job I fell in love with King Shark I love the riot catcher like all of that

so I thought the movie really really worked in a way that a lot of DC EU movies haven't worked in the past as far as what it was trying to accomplish not that this is the best one that they've ever made but it might be

the most effective one yeah that they've ever made so that would be that's how I felt now how did you feel about it if you gave a little longer of a review. Yeah, no, I agree. And, you know, I think it's, it's mostly what I already said.

I thought that it was, like, really tight and focused. I think that I'm curious to circle back, Charles, to what you were saying and ask you, like, how much of that is measured against your own hype and your own anticipation heading in and how much of it is about the hype that was already, like, building for the movie, you know, because that's always something I'm interested in thinking about. Like, and I will say, I watched it on Friday night and then I watched it again on Sunday

and I enjoyed it both times but I liked it a lot more the second time way more. After the first viewing I was closer to Charles and I thought that I was way more, way more the second time. I actually watched it three times. The second time I'm like, yo man, I'm having a lot of fun. Way more the second time, yeah. Yeah, and I think part of that it's just

not that it's impossible for me to like something if it has a lot of hype. That's not the case at all. But, you know, this movie has like 92% on Rot on Tomatoes, and there was so much jubilation and effusive praise building toward it, and you kind of can't, or I can't totally separate the experience of consuming something for the first time from everything I've heard about it going in. And the second time was when I was really just like watching it kind of note for note

for what it was. I am really curious, this is separate from how we all felt about it, but just in terms of this moment in, movie making and movie going or movie consumption. You know, the box office returns came out, obviously amid the spikes, not a lot of theater attendance. I'm wondering if we'll ever get clarity about what the viewership was on HBO Max. I don't know how you guys felt about it. Like, I loved getting to watch this at home. It was really fun and cool. And it's interesting to hear James Gunn talk about like streaming in general and where we are.

in this moment in movie history. Like he had an interesting interview with Adam B. Vary over at Variety. And he had this, it's noted in the interview that he paused for a long time before answering the question about streaming. And obviously like it's a, you know, I think the filmmakers have many different opinions on this.

But his answer was, quote, I don't really care that much. I really just care about whatever the project is in front of me. The Suicide Squad is made to be seen first and foremost on a big screen. I think it's going to work just fine on television. Listen, movies don't last because they're seen on the big screen. Movies last because they're seen on television. Jaws isn't still a classic because people are watching it in theaters. I've never seen Jaws in a movie theater. It's one of my favorite movies. And so I was just interested in thinking about that, like specifically with this film because it is such a spectacle. And so it does lend itself to the biggest screen and the loudest speaker system and the most immersive experience possible. But also it feeds back to what we were talking about earlier about who the characters. are and how the heart of this movie to me was really the combination of that spectacle and that

pop and that splash and the really like heavy comic booky nature of like the title cards in the sequences, the fawning of the subtitles, all of that. Like it just felt like so purely a comic book movie in that sense with this, hey, here's two hours and 10 minutes where you're going to get to just like meet these new people and decide if you're interested in them and the relationships that they're building with each other, which I was, and for me at least, like something about being at home and getting to just pop it right, like boot it right back up and watch it again, enhance that for me in a way that is memorable and cool. So I'm getting some word in here from on high here.

TD says that Suicide Squad has emerged as the second most viewed film over an opening weekend on HBO Max since we began day and date releases with theaters. that is from Andy Forsell, who is an HBO Mac executive. What's above it? I don't know. That would be an interesting question. Like, I don't know what's above it.

Probably Mortal Kombat, maybe. More Mortal Kombat maybe, or they've done a couple of big ones. So there's Wonder Woman 1984 or something like that. So I'll say two things to that. Number one, I think that James Gunn is full of shit. I do. I think that James Gunn is full of. of shit, not only in the intention of what he's saying, but also in the truth of it.

I think he's sort of, he's legislating that in his mind. He's negotiating that in his mind in a way to come off to make sure that people go and see the film. Secondly, you watch movies on the small screen and repetition, and those that kind of holds you over. it's very difficult to fall in love with film in your living room. It's harder to me. I don't think, so all the movies that I saw, so I've never seen Jaws in theaters either.

And to be honest with you, I don't really give a fuck about Jaws. Well, like, I understand that Jaws is very important. That's important, it's an important movie. There are very few films in my life, unless I was directly watching them with my dad or with one of my people, that I fell in love with

that I had not seen in the movie theater. Like a lot of films. You know, of course there are movies that you watch and they're great and you see them all the time and like movies that you couldn't see. You guys ever see Jim Kata? Do you guys remember that movie about the guy and he's a gymnast?

But he ends up using his gymnast skills to fight in some. Yeah, movies like that, I love that movie. You'll never see that movie, The Beast Master. Like movies like that, you know what I mean? but most of the time, the way I fell in love with film was sneaking out of middle school

going to Seagin Lane Theater and watching Pulp Fiction there. You know what I mean? And so for me, I think that that's a little bit of James Gunn like telling everybody, hey, watch this on HBO Max. Filmmaking is not going to change

if we watch all these movies at home. Filmmaking will change if we watch these movies at home. I'm just not sure if it's for better or worse. I think some of it, though, is also just like the reality of the actual platforms of television and movies morphing together. You know, obviously the three of us have spent a lot of time in recent months talking about Disney Plus shows and how that has impacted phase four of the MCU.

James Gunn's making a peacemaker show for HBO Max. Like that's a project that is coming very soon. And so he is actually currently undergoing the experience of making a TV show with a character that he just made a movie with. So maybe that's informing it too. But I don't know. I just think overall it's it's going to be interesting to see like how many people go see this in theaters, how many people watch it at home, whether that matters, whether that

impacts. And I think it just varies person to person, right? Because some people have a real fondness for the theater going experience. Some people would like be content to never go to a movie theater again. And then there are any number of possibilities in between. But I don't know. I thought that the fact that it, the grand. of it, like translated at home was ultimately pretty cool to see. And it felt like, again,

I think just that sense of self that the movie has lent itself. I'm sure it would have been a delight to see in the theater, but lent itself quite well to the at-home experience. There's something about the, especially if you're in the context of the DC universe, right, which is often so drab. And like, I love a lot of the DC movies, right? But one of the things that I liked best about this movie to get back to the larger point we're discussing here. Hyperviolent, but also kind of like bubbly and vibrant, grim, quite grim, but not drab, actually. And that's a hard balance to strike and one that I quite appreciated. And so I'm curious, Charles, to go back to your feelings on the movie, if you felt like that tone didn't land for you. And again, like how much of it was your own just

hype and excitement for the movie heading into it versus maybe the mass celebration that was already unfolding and whether that influenced how you perceived it. Oh, I actually think if I'm being super positive about the movie, I think the one reason I love James Gunn is I think James Gunn is probably the most talented director at translating what makes comic books so fun to read for a screen. Like, seeing Starro was, like, amazing.

And Starro fitting next to Harley Quinn was amazing. Like, watching the movie, I'm like, oh, this is what a Suicide Squad movie should, like, look like and operate like, this is how I would want something. I think it's the same thing with the Guardians of Galaxy. I don't think Infinity War and Endgame work if James Gunn doesn't make us believe that there are all of these aliens and a talking raccoon that can exist in the same universe as like Captain America. And that's what I think he did bring to this movie that I was just like, oh, like, this movie looks amazing. He took a character that nobody gives a rat's ass about

like multiple rat catcher two, blood sport. There's just a bunch of. There's just a bunch of So I was just like nobody, like, comic book readers don't care about this. And I ended up leaving, I'm like, Bloodsport is fucking cooler than Deadpool. He's cooler than Deathstroke, like, any of them. Like, I love Bloodsport. That's, like, what I really thought, like, the visual tone of the movie worked for me. I think it was more so some of the writing and the story. And we'll talk about it in depth later that, like, I got a little tripped up about.

Let's talk about it now. Let's get into the plot of the movie now. Which parts of the story didn't really work for you? The one part that, like, I actually called. up my brother talking about this. I'm like, maybe I'm bugging. There was a joke where it's like, Corto Maltese, like, this is something that was created for like the Dark Night Returns. It is like an

actual comic book, like, island that's off the coast of South America. And there's this part in the movie where they go to save wreck. And like, they basically like shoot a bunch of people. I'm like, oh, this is funny. Like, Bloodsport

and like, and Peacemaker, like having a dick measuring contest. Like, this is great. This is great. And then they get to Rick Flag and then they're like, where he's like, what are you guys doing? These guys saved me. And it's supposed to be like a joke. People are supposed to laugh.

And I was just like, I started to think I was like, they just killed a bunch of brown people. Then the freedom fighter is just like, all right, well, I guess I got to team up with you guys. And I'm just like, whoa, whoa, we got to unpack this more. And it was like played for laughs. And I think like if I'm giving it my most optimistic greed of that, that is a very American thing.

imperialism thing, where you go and thinking that you're doing a really, really good thing and then you end up just fucking it up more than, more than you would have,

you just would have stayed out of it. And that's probably, like, the biggest thing was like, this is a movie about imperialism, about the U.S. government coming in.

Like, Viola Davis, Amanda Waller, is the real villain. It is not Starro. And those were the things where I was like, interesting, probably the most interesting

regard of the movie just didn't land it. Like, you were two thirds of the way there. And the last third, I was just like, I, Don't think you wrote.

Like, you needed another pass on this. Fair am I being super negative? So this is what I'm going to say. And I don't mean to offend any of our listeners or you, Charles, my midnight brother. Your whole generation is doomed. Your whole generation is doomed. Brough, got a whole bookshelf over there. Fill it up, stoke the Carmichael, fucking, the wretcher of the earth, France Fanon.

I'm looking at all of this. Let me do that. Asada Shoucourt. sword and the shield, all of it right there. Relax. Dude, I literally, I just, it just, I didn't think it was done well. Relax. That's my only thing.

That was why big criticism. It's okay. I get it. I get it. We're not talking about American imperialism and anti-hypercapitalism and stuff. We fucking shit up, baby. It's the suicide squad. Okay.

That's what we doing. That is actually my point. I do think that James, James Gunn wanted to talk about that, which I do think is interesting. is where like there are moments in the movie where he is very much trying to say something and then we get to the explosions and the fun part and he's just like, all right, we're done with this.

And I'm just like, maybe just should have just done that the whole time. And I do find that that interesting. And if I do, if we're looking at the suicide squad, I think this is a completely unintended metaphor, but I do think this is the most entertaining read of it. It's like this is definitely a movie made for someone who is like excommunicated, feels he's excommunicated from Hollywood.

who feels like he is expendable. Without a doubt. And even the beginning of them on the beach of all of the suicide squad running and getting killed. I'm like, oh, that's a metaphor for like directors and how like Hollywood treats like people. Jesus. Okay. And the other side is just like, all right, like life is chaos.

And if you end up on the other side of the island, sometimes you survive. And I just thought that was probably really unintended. But I'm like, this seems like a movie that a Marvel director would make when Marvel fires him, which I was just like, bold, very bold. And we could just like quickly maybe run through that history for any, any listeners who don't know what we're referencing or don't know what we're talking about. Gunn was, after making the first Guardians and the second Guardians movie, he was fired in July of 2018 after old tweet surface in which he had made a lot of really horrific,

jokes about. Like legitimately fucked up weird jokes. Really bad. Pedophilia, rape, the Holocaust. It was definitely a right wing hit job, but they

hit the job. Because this was some weird shit. I'm not going to lie. Very, very bad. And he was fired from the Third Guardians movie. He publicly

apologized. the Guardian's cast wrote this open letter. They really pushed to have him reinstated on that movie, which he ultimately, he was. Marvel, Disney rehired him in March of 2019, but in the interim, D.C., Warner Brothers had hired him. And basically, you guys correct me if I'm getting any of this wrong, gave him carte blanche to pick the story,

pick the IP, anything he wanted to make. I think they gave him Superman at first. They were like, you wanted to do Superman? Yeah, like whatever he wanted to do Superman. Whatever he wanted to do. And he was like, I don't, I think suicide squad said, do whatever you want within that. Use any of the characters you want. Don't use any of the characters you want.

He's talked about this a lot as he's been conducting interviews in the press tour. And so, you know, I think to that aspect of what you were saying, it's certainly interesting that this is the story that he, you know, chose to tell on the one that drew him. I think that some of that is probably the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the resonance. Some of that is like, I think again, more broadly, if you talk about

the Guardians' parallels and what he's, like, drawn to the fact that he likes to write these characters who aren't as fully established is, I think,

a huge and very, very clear driving force. He talked about this in an interview that he conducted with the Hollywood reporters, Brian Davids, where he said, quote, I've really shied away

from the really popular characters because I like creating characters. I don't generally like interpreting characters that are already fully actualized. I think that, you know, I know we need to move on, but I'll just curious, curious what you would say to this,

Charles and Van. Like, I think that Charles, to your point, first of all, one of the interesting things about watching movies, and I don't mean to, like, paint with the broadest brush possible here, is that we can all interpret them differently, right? So some of the things are going to land

for some viewers and not for others. I think that two things can be true at once, though. On the one hand, this is just my opinion and my perspective, right? Don't need to convince you, don't need to convince anybody else. I think it's, again, it's a great thing that we can all have our own read on this.

One of the things that I love about these movies and about stories in general is that you can find that deeper commentary and that deeper meaning if it's there or if you want to, right? and maybe that's through a plot point, maybe it's through a character arc, maybe it's through a setting,

whatever the case may be. I think that's one of the beautiful things about consuming these and talking about them. I also think it's true, though, that, or maybe is true, that in this case, some of the, like, jingoistic peacemaker manifestations and the larger political, like political,

manifestations in the plot are definitely present, but they are plot devices where the commentary is almost like secondary. I don't want to say incidental, but like it's there for you if you're interested in it. And it is not, it doesn't feel to me like the primary point, though it is of course embedded in the story because it's always embedded in these stories, right? It's like at the heart of how these comic book characters and stories came into existence in the first place was to find another lens in to. examining those ideas.

Yeah, I actually don't think it was the primary driver, and that's fine. I think actually if it was more of the movie, I would have even been like, no. So, but to be like, guys, I did like the movie. You guys are acting like, I thought it was the worst movie ever. I think it's probably tied for either the second

or the third best DCU movie. I don't know if that's saying a lot, but it's at least 20. All right, so enough about that. I watch the film, and to be honest with you, the sequence that you're talking about where they kill all the rebels before they find flag,

I didn't like it. Because it was like, yo, these people were freedom fighters and they got killed and it was a joke in the movie, but it wasn't because of imperialism and all of that stuff, Charles,

you bleeding heart. I love you so much. I'm going to hug you. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business and even this podcast.

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There was one new character in the film that... Interesting is the backstory about Bloodsport being in this movie because initially, Deadshot, if I'm right about this, Dead Shot, who was Will Smith, Will Smith playing the last film, was offered to be a part of this movie. Will couldn't do it for whatever reason. He's Will.

He's got a lot of stuff going on. And there was some talk that Edress Elbow was going to play Deadshot. What happened was that they brought Bloodsport into the movie in case Will Smith wanted to return to Deadshot. Later, they would have Bloodsport. essentially in many ways the same character as Deadshot was

in the last Suicide Squad movie, except for the fact that for whatever reason he's a million times fucking cooler. Yeah. He's unbelievable. Like for whatever reason he's a better leader of the team. He is

his center comes out. He's funny. He's fussy. he's sinner comes out. He is more likable. He is, he seems more, in every way, it seems like he embodies the reluctant leader, the reluctant hero who comes around towards the end of the movie and turns into somebody who's a little bit less reluctant about doing what's right. And I feel like this movie works so particularly well for me because blood sport works so particularly well for me even when they

bring in our fake suicide squad. Because I remember when the movie first came out, they had all of these people. I was like, yo, my man Pete's in it. They've got TDK in it. They got javelin in it. Of course, I was always good to see Michael Rooker. They've got all of these people in it.

And these guys get jammed out in the first 10 minutes of the movie. In the first 10 minutes of the movie. And then Bloodsport and his suicide squad are, brought in to ground the story of the film. They almost save the movie from the carnage of the opening sequence because their mission has to be tactical.

Their mission has to work. And it works that that character is grounded in that because he's the thing that keeps them all together. And I feel like that's a lot of the reason why the film was able to hit, not just some of the action heights, but some of the emotional heights that it hits. Because he allows himself to be a vulnerable hero. and a hero with purpose. When he didn't have any of that before,

he was cursing his daughter out and one of the best scenes in the movie. Shout out to Storm Reed, going back and forth. It didn't seem like he cared about anything at first, and at the end of the movie, it seems like he cared about everything. I loved the blood sport.

Aegis album was amazing. I will say, like, probably the problem with the other suicide squad is I love Will Smith. I loved Will Smith as Deadshot. But the whole time I was watching the movie, I'm like, that's Will Smith. Like, Will Smith is in a DC movie.

Like, and he just, elbow, like, he's a star. What he was doing acting-wise, carrying this movie, the emotional beats of this movie, like, it's, I don't know. Like, the whole time I was just like, Eidris is just a star. Like, he is at the perfect level of fame

where he's, like, not at his peak of fame, but he's not a nobody, where he gets to still play this older, grizzled guy who's seen a lot and, like, doesn't want to be a leader, does not want to be on this squad, but like the relationship he has with Ratcatcher 2 is like I buy him as that father figure.

I buy that like when he's like, I'm going to get you home. Like, I'm going to make sure you're safe. Like that to me was one of the best parts of the movie. Like I understood it. And like to me, it's just amazing that like, he just could walk into such like a zany movie and just be that grounding force.

I thought he was incredible. Incredible. Yeah. I completely agree. And, you know, one of the really essential ingredients to make an ensemble movie, like a team up movie work.

And there are a lot. course, but one of them is balance. And, you know, you have to be able to figure out the right calibration of not only like how much time we get with each individual character, backstory, forward-propulsive plot, arc, development, but then how much time they all get with each other. And I think that in many ways, like Harley, who we'll talk about in a few minutes, is, you know, one of the key ingredients and the secret sauce more broadly of like what has what the DC, you can unlock moving forward or has unlocked maybe. But this movie doesn't work without Iderselba as Bloodsport.

Because his arc is the one that you're really like, it's carrying you through the movie. And right if we go back to the twist at the beginning, with the first squad getting wiped out, I mean, I think Pete Davidson gets shot in the face like nine minutes and 30 seconds in, right? I hate that. It's like you're saying. Oh, Pete.

Justice for my man, Pete Davidson. But it was incredible. It was incredible. Not only because you then get the moment where it's like, it has clearly just taken a shit. It is coming out of the bathroom of Belrieve pulling the toilet paper off of his orange crocs. And it's like, okay, I got one more little Pete moment there. But because it's like such an unmooring sequence to realize that you just said goodbye to like 90% of the cast that you were with for the opening stretch of the movie. Right, that they did not make a small deal about being in this film, by the way.

Like, they made a big deal about Pete Davidson, the rest of these people being in the movie. It was like, suicide squad, Pete Davidson. Like, we're taking pictures on the set. We're doing all of this stuff. I'm shooting Suicide Squad. Bro, you shot Suicide Squad for like a day and a half, maybe. Right. And so the thing is you have to, like, immediately get to the point where you think that's, like, bold and awesome instead of a bummer.

and the intro sequence with Bloodsport where you go from the scraping of the gum and like you're saying, Van, that reluctance really just is not interested in this. You get the nugget about the Superman backstory and history with the Krypton Night Bullet, the really like harrowing sequence with his daughter. And, you know, that's one of the things

that I like about this movie too is you have these through lines and these parallels across the character arcs because of the way that Waller like manipulates people and lever their personal circumstances and pain to get them to do her bidding. But then you got to be able very quickly establish each individual like power set, tech, motivation, all of that. It has to happen like really, really fast so that the actual plot can unfold. And the plot itself then is like neat and tidy and direct in part because we have to navigate between so many characters. And there's like some

time fuckery in the movie, right? Where we're like unwinding, fast forwarding, moving back across a couple, not only in the opening sequence, like later again, and Yodenheim, where we have to realize what actually set the explosion into its sequence earlier than it was supposed to unfold, et cetera. So the other thing about Bloodsport that I just don't think we can say enough is that his suit is fucking awesome. It was just so cool to look at, to watch him pull off all of the gadgetry. And like, I don't want to, listen, I think all of us feel. similarly, that bleeding edge nanotech is like a sacred thing. So I don't want to, I don't want to invoke it inappropriately, but I will just say you're watching

Bloodsport assemble and morph all of his weaponry. And it's like the fact that it makes you think about MCU nanotech even for a second and wonder exactly what's happening here. And like, you know, maybe you're thinking, okay, well, from, you know, comics history with the teleportation device and how that allows him to grab all of the weaponry that he needs and kind of have this like endless supply of the arsenal at his disposal. And, you know, obviously what we're seeing here is like manifesting differently. But I just thought that was really cool on the update of his, um, of his suit and his like a visual aesthetic was really successful and

landed. Can I just say bloodsport the way his suit was made me like, be like, oh, this is what taskmaster should have been in blackwood. I was like, we needed this level of just like, like ingenuity and ruthlessness. But one thing, like, the, I love the opening. I think probably the opening, the first, probably 20 minutes of the movie were the most successful and fun to me. But it was funny. Like, I was on, like, Twitter and seeing, like, that scene seems to be very, like,

divisive. Like, people seem, like, upset. They're just like, how could you kill everyone? I'm like, the movie's called The Suicide Squad. What did you think was going to happen? But, like, a lot of people seem like, why would you kill, like, Pete Davidson in the first 10 minutes? Well, I mean, there's a couple things about that.

I like movies. I like what movies do things like that, just to set some stakes. To set some mistakes, we know that some of these characters, we know Harley's going to end up breathing. We know peacemaker's going to end up breathing because we know about the deals, right? But set some mistakes, this is a mission when you go on, people go on the mission, they die. Like, it could happen.

And by wiping all of them out, which I really did not think that they would do. I really honestly had no clue that that was happening. I just thought that was good for grinding the world into a place. When it happened to Captain Boomerang, I'm like, oh shit, like they're killing it. Yeah, he was in the last film. Yeah, so bringing him back, I thought that this movie was going to serve as, hey, Harley's back with some of the gang, a couple of the gang, I just kept the Boomerang, whomever else, and then they're going to bring on some new characters and whatever.

But, you know, Jack Courtney basically signed up to come back from a movie that he was in the whole time last time and get murked out. It was amazing. Something else I'll say about Dead Shots, his suit, is that was important to differentiate him. from Deadshot as like guy with guns. Because at first you think, hey, this guy shot Superman. So now he's going to be the same guy. He never misses guy with guns. Peacemaker is guy with guns.

They know all the calibers. They have all of these things. But no, he actually has a different dimension. And it's very awesome and cool when he pulls something off of his body and turns into the tool that he needs for the job. It shows a different level of expertise and a different level of lethality that he has. almost like it's a superpower in a way. He seems superpowered.

He seems like a guy that's going to be the grounding of a team right there. Yeah, and like the contrast with, that's a really good point about the contrast with peacemaker inside of the movie because obviously their rivalry and the dick measuring and dick swinging is like a through line in the film. And within that, you get these little bits of foreshadowing like in their first exchange with the, you know, peacemakers, the one who says, I use smaller bullets.

They go inside your bullet hole without even touching the sides, which is then what will allow blood sport in their, fateful we thought showdown at Jodenheim to to emerge victorious in that one instance at least. But, you know, the initial exchange is that Waller is like speechifying about how every member of the squad has like something unique, right, a unique ability and unique trait, something that they do that no one else can. And then like literally it's word for word, line for line, the same intro for peacemaker that Bloodsport got, right? Which is amusing. And then leads to him saying he, he, he, He does exactly what I do.

And so the fact that Peacemaker just looks like a fucking asshole, right? Like the, as they say later, you got a toilet bowl on your head. And Bloodsport looks so cool. Like there aren't, when you're watching the movie, you're not going to say like, oh, my God, I, I wish I could wear peacemaker's outfit. I wish I could walk around and look like that. Like he's, it's like mortifying. It's a doucheback tiara is what it is. They're going to kill me for saying this.

I wish we had a bloodspoken. HBO Max TV series coming instead of the Peasmaker. I like the Bloodsport. Like, I think Johnson did a great job, but I'm just more, I just want to see the suit for six episodes. We got to get,

we have got to get the Bloodsport Superman spinoff. Like, we have to. Yeah, he just, it just wants to do it. By the way, it just and I have the same manager. So I might be able to,

we might be able to get in the room. Maybe we should make a house of midnight call to Arunday Garrett and make sure that they push, like, push the right buttons to get that made. Because I would really be interested in seeing more of that character. And another thing that's interesting about that is Bloodsport says we do the same thing.

And we now know why Peacemaker was there. He wasn't there for his skill set. He was there to be Waller's man on the inside to make sure that things were kept under wraps. So yeah, their skills were redundant, but their mission wasn't. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

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As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. Of course, we have to talk about our girl, Harley Quinn, who I keep thinking I'm going to be Harley Quinned out. I'm Harley Quinn, though.

Are you? Not the TV. I love the TV show. Just in general in the movies. Like, it even seemed this movie seemed a little bit Harley Quinned out in terms of like she was like the franchise player for like two movies. And it almost seemed like she was a little bit sideline in. Like she didn't have much to do. They gave her her own adventure.

But it wasn't as cool as Bloodsports. So this is my thing. I disagree. See, this is another reason why the movie works. I think that if this movie was as Harley-centric as obviously Bres of Prey, where she's the lead, or as the first one when she was clearly, not the Margo-Margo-Robbie needed to be a breakout star, but she was clearly the biggest cultural thing that came out of the first movie. I think if you lean on her too much here, we go, okay, here she is as Harley Quinn again.

But I thought the character found a little bit of new life. Number one, I loved Brez of Prey, loved it. Number two, I thought the character by having her be, number one, a part of the first suicide squad. She's hard to kill. She finds the javelin. She doesn't know this is James Gunn and his best. This is James Gunn and his best, giving a character that we already knew, that we already had had enough of, a new purpose, a breath of fresh air, and to make her refine the other team. to bring her back into the fold at the end

by giving her her own art, her own fight scenes, her own shine. I thought it was perfectly done and some of the best writing I've seen in a superhero movie in recent memory. I really liked what they did with her in this film.

I totally agree. I think that if Harley is with the new crew for the entire time, like from the jump, she's just so big, right? She's so big. And it's, I think actually like disciplined and smart to allow us that time to invest in the other characters before they're all put together. But again, like that balancing act is at play here because we do still get those sequences with her. I mean, her escape, first of all, just what a time for, you know, the Wiki feet community with the entire. entire foot sequence with the key and the escape. Happy for everyone.

That whole sequence, though, that, like, you know, magical realism, Harley lens, exit with the cartoon palette over the film and the flowers and the pop of color, long enough and immersive enough that you felt like you were getting the time you needed with Harley, I thought without. ever actually feeling like he had left the other characters for too long. And I actually think that Flag is kind of this interesting conductive tissue between the different poles of the movie because, like, he and Harley have this relationship and this history, right?

But Flagg has that with Bloodsport, too. And so that's like part of what allows everybody during the, oh, you're here to rescue me while I can, like, go back inside and you can do it if you want to sequence work so quickly. so seamlessly, and you see these little, little moments where the fact that these people have history is, like, pretty organically reinforced. I loved the moment where you can hear, you know, flag say, who ate all the fucking empanadas? And bloodsports, like, mine were very good. I had the chicken. You know, these are people who have spent time together. And it just, the balance could have tipped really far in either direction with Harley, and I thought it didn't. I think the thing that James Gunn did

fine with Harley, which I think is why, like, the show works so well, is, like, Harley is best understood when she's, like, standing next to another character, like, her opposite or a straight man. And I think, like, when you watch, you know, the TV show, you have poison ivy, and obviously they have, you know, a relationship or whatever, but you understand the kookiness of Harley from her friendship with someone who's just, like, I love you even though you're clinically insane. And what I loved about this movie was the relationship between her and Rick.

because Rick, like, should not be her friend. He is, like, her boss, by most accounts. He is very straight edge. He, like, my country. Like, I believe in what we're doing. And the fact that, like, when he's like, no, we got to go save Harley and Harley realizing, like, no, this is my friend. I thought that was so cute because I was just like, oh, like, that part did not need to be in the movie. But it made me love Harley and it made me love Rick because I'm just like, why are these two friends?

Like, what happened between, like, the first movie in this movie where they're just like, yeah, we're buds now. We're going to save each other. I love that part. Yeah, well, they had been through something fighting a villain way too powerful for them in a weird story. And that'll bring any people together. I didn't think that they were like friends by the end of the last movie. Like this one made it seem like there had been more missions that I want to know what happened where they're just like, no, like we're Blood Brothers. That's a good point though in general and something else that I thought was fairly successful, was handled successfully with Harley's character.

like if you consider the Joker nods and references and illusions as an example, it's impossible to watch the movie and not know who and what Harley is talking about. Who and what is like informing what she is saying about boyfriends. You know, we haven't talked about Luna yet and the... Sexy bastard. Holy shit. I mean, man, like the two things I was most interested. talking about from this movie,

Luna and Sebastian. Two of my faves in a long time. I don't like shit like that. I got to be honest with you. I'm getting to that age to where, like, I've been re-watching the Sopranos and God rest of soul, James Gandalfini.

When you watch the first season of the Sopranos, James Galdofini is like almost dashing. Like he's... Incredibly charismatic. Like he's almost dashing. And then by the end, it's been seven years. And there's a lot of Villparm between season one and the last season. So I'm sitting there last night or whatever I'm watching the movie.

And I just got some S-Ks donuts that had been delivered. And I'm talking, look, look, I went hard, guys. I deserved it. I went hard. I got an apple fritter. Ooh. I got the S-Kays donuts, the Kronut. All right?

The Kronut that they make is actually the best one I've ever had. And then I got the, I got a glazed. This place is amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's a classic. Just plain glaze. I'm just sitting there.

I got the milk. My dog is looking at me like, you fat bastard. And all of a sudden, this fucking guy walks out of that pool or whatever like that. And he's, and he's, or whatever he's got. And his, it's not just his stomach is flat. His soul is flat. His soul is in shape. It's like an angel comes out of there.

Glistening. we're splendid. Good, the whole thing. I look at the donut and I'm thinking to myself, yo man, what are you doing? Fat bastard? Why don't you go somewhere and run a couple of miles? So I had to, then I Google the guy to see how old he is

and a whole not into making excuses for myself. Nah, but that was a good little scene. And I thought, and even that, though, the movie, Donuts are great. No, I'm going to eat another one. I'm going to eat one after this. I don't go to fuck. But, but no, I thought that their little relationship was

one of the keys because it showed the growth of Harley. Harley used to be all in for pudding. She'd go do whatever, whatever, and it looked like this guy had the same thing. She attacks him. You were so freaking hot. They do the whole thing. And then in an instant,

that character who you are sure is going to be the one staring into a computer screen, calling the shots at the end of the movie, is in a pool of his own. I thought it was another thing in the film that kept you on your toes. I thought it was another thing in the film that actually pushed her character forward because as violently and as not very much respect for life that she deals with that, Harley's learning about Harley.

And it's a good acting job by Margot Robbie. She's standing right there, tears in her eyes, telling this guy why she had to kill him. and it's weirdly affecting for me for some reason because he is a bastard, you know? We know like Harley's a badass. Like the whole scene where she's like killing everyone, we know Rick is like integral. I was a little confused why Amanda sent them on the other team.

Was it because the other people would have ran away? Like if like Rick wasn't there, did she know like Harley could survive? That was the one part of the movie. I was just like, I know everybody else is getting killed. Well, they were a diversion, but they weren't meant to get killed. Remember Black Gar sold them out. They were a diversion team,

but I don't think they were sit to the beach to be lambs to the slaughter. There were definitely a diversion, and the other team had the real mission, but I don't think... I thought Amanda knew that Blackard was going to sell them. I thought she was smart enough to know, like, like, because during, like, she's listening to the calls,

like everything. I thought Amanda was smart enough to know, like, no, like, we need him to sell us out. I might be wrong. I was just like, I was wondering why they would put two important people on the dummy mission. Not smart enough to know Weasel couldn't swim. Yes, Arjuna.

So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the collection of them were not. We're not as smart as I think that they are. There are no depths that Waller won't go to as we see quite clearly throughout the film. It was interesting to watch Waller's own team turn on her. An absolute abject horror. I think to go back to Luna and just pay our final respects for one more moment here, though. you know, RIP to that absolutely beautiful monster between your legs, as Harley said to him.

You know, worse things to hear as you're taking your final breath, I guess. That's how you want to go out. That's definitely how you want to go out. It was so shocking. It was funny. It was disturbing. It was sad. Like when Harley says when your taste in men is as bad as mine, they don't just go away quietly.

Like there was something actually kind of potent and impactful. that lingered about it. And the tonal shifts across the movie work in general, but Harley is definitely, I think, the character who helps, like, unlock this, like,

unavoidable, unignorable, overt, strangeness. And there are moments where it's scary and something, about it is like, oh boy, this is not good, right? Something about it almost repels you, but then you build affection and investment in the characters. And that's kind of like what the Suicide

Squad franchise is about in a lot of ways. And so, you know, I, I really enjoyed Harley's role in this movie. And I hope we get more. I do not have any Harley fatigue. I'm ready for the Harley expanded universe. Sign me up. Do you think we'll get more Harley? Because like, after Suicide squad, which actually did commercially very, very well, her own movie, which did not, this movie that did not. Like, I don't know if, like, the rest of the world has Harley fatigue. I'm, like, actually confused.

Well, I don't think that the commercial, the commercial returns for this movie, the box office net for this movie is almost like, you just have to toss it out, right? You have to toss out anything during the pandemic. The Delta, the Delta, the Delta variant, man. Elephant stepping on the world all over the place. Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta going crazy.

So this is different. I think this movie would have been a lot more successful. And by the way, as far as Bruce, of prey, I blame the audience. I'm being for, I'm not even bullshitting you at all. If you guys out there can't get up and go see what was a

really fun movie, because just to keep against it with you, it's female centric. That's on you. But to be honest with you, I don't think that she should have to take any hits for that. That movie was great. That's a fun film. That's a fun movie. It's a fun turn. The action

is great. The story is great. If you don't want to go see it, if you like nah like she but didn't the director like come out like she would she kind of did a david a where she was basically like yeah they messed my they messed my movie up they might have but the one they put on the screen was a fun was great it's a great superhero music i'm not just kind of that she was but she was on her david air she's like yeah release my cut now yeah uh peacemaker let's getting to the rest of the squad real quick knee jerks peacemaker mal your thoughts um with uh with what everyone said earlier about, you know, being invested in additional spin-offs for other characters as well,

but will I watch the peacemaker show, of course. You know, I mean, I'm interested to see what the balance is there between, like, origin story, everything that unspools from the stinger of this film. You know, the whole, like, standing around at the campfire overnight in his underwear, flexing, wants to be the best. You know, my, again, like that jingo-wist. pursuit and very misguided, obviously, and noxious pursuit of patriotism and liberty at all cost. Like, I love peace so much. I'll kill endlessly for it. Horrifying, certainly. And I think that in terms of the, again, visual palette for the character, the part that made me laugh the hardest, more than the actual suit, more than the underwear moment was the polo, this painted on

skin-tight polo that he wore to the gentlemen's club. I was like cackling. It tells you everything you need to know about him. I love that little touch so much. I'm surprised he didn't have like the collar popped up. You know, those guys that have their collars popped up. He definitely would have the collar popped up. I used to always look at those guys like, fam, you brave as fuck.

You're the man. You got your shit popped up. Like you're too much of a G to pull your collar down. You put the collar up on your shit. were you fucking with peacemaker Charles I love peacemaker I love what Jonathan did was incredible when they're when they're talking about like the penises on the beach

and they go like what's over the penis is all over the beach and he's like who knows why mad men do what they do I'm like this is just a great like who could hate him but like I do have one question what's that what's that preppy like uh preppy uh preppy uh wall street bro brand that people wear

you know what I'm saying? Brooks brothers. Yeah like he's like like I would love just a thing like where does he go shop? Like, where does he, is he shopping at Coles? Because he had like the high cut shorts.

Like my man had no swag whatsoever. But it almost made him a little bit more endearing. Yeah. I mean, I think that I enjoy peacemaker and I enjoy John Cena as Peacemaker. Because for some reason, it felt like John Cena finally found the role that he was perfectly cast for. Like,

that's almost how we like got to know John Cena as sort of this. like a wrestling dude who was doing a you can't see me, dushy, almost black parody, mildly racist type of situation. Mildly. And then this guy is kind of pretentious in that same way, but has some sort of weird compass. Even at the end, when he's actually selling the team out

doing what in the grander scheme of things is not right, he's doing it for a reason that he feels like it's very, very important. And I think what people want from characters like that more than anything is the belief of the authenticity. You want to believe that this person actually will go the extra mile for whatever cause they have,

right? Like one thing that we know about Batman is that Batman's fucking believes in this shit. Batman is all about the cause. Like it doesn't, like he is, like we get into the purity of Bruce Wayne because this guy's fucking crazy. And what's going to happen is he's going to maintain his standard, maintain his order, maintain his code to the very end. And Peacemaker did not have a lot of screen time to do that, but I felt like I believe that he really was who he said that he was, which is why the character actually worked for me. I did not believe John Sina in this shit we just watched on Fast 9.

I didn't believe it. I was like, this didn't work for me. And maybe he didn't have whatever he needed to pull it through. It just never seemed like he got there. But in this one, he kind of did. Less Sina is more Sina, I think is what James Gunn taught us. He just gave just enough, which makes me actually scared for the TV show. Because I'm like, I think Peacemaker worked because he had like blood sport to go off of.

Like I had the guy I was rooting for. And then I had the dickhead off. I love you, but I also want you dead. Yeah, there's one thing else I have to say. We haven't talked about one of my favorite people enough, man. Man, King Shark. Incredible. Unbelievable movie for Nanaway.

Just amazing. Noway, stay off the columns. I laughed so hard. That was great. That was great. And once again, like, look, I'm telling you, these arcs, we got arcs like McDonald's, baby, which I guess those are arches. But we, but like we, this is an arc. He was going to eat rat catcher.

He was going to eat her. He goes from going to eat rat catcher, rat catcher, who is the emotional center of this film, and does such a great job. I had never seen this actress before. And she was so great at centering everybody. Almost to the point to where I wondered why she would be in jail in the first place. Somebody that seems so innately good.

So I always wonder what she did to get herself in jail too. I know who rack catcher is in terms of Batman, but she's the second rack's catcher. Is she also gang leader, arch villain, whatever, whatever? So I was always one, I almost wondered about that. But at the end, he's going to eat, at the beginning he's going to eat one of his team members. At the end, he's making little figures of them and doing everything that he can do to, it's like to be their friend. I thought King Shark, King Shark and Sebastian were the two non-human stars of this film.

They really got to me in an emotional way. Same. I was, I was honestly overwhelmed by. by my love for for Nanaway and for Sebastian on the Nanaway friend I mean obviously are connected

though because of what you just said about that the friendship that blooms between Cleo and King Shark and it is like so heart wrenching

that sequence about like would you meet your friends I don't have friends and it was just really sad and then like when he wants to wear the disguise so he can go on the gentleman's club mission with them

and like here's my fake mustache and the way he looks longingly at the windows of the bus and sees like that couple you know kissing in the alley like he just wants connection and and he's finding it with his teammates but it's i don't know if i i mean i'm like i'm such a sap obviously but i found it really touching and moving and sad and then rat catcher too cleo and sebastian i thought this was like incredible I mean, both their relationship and their history and their story, what we learn about Cleo's father, Taika, Wittiti, the way that that played out, like you're watching her memories unfurl on the glass, the window as they're sharing this tale and she and Bloodsport are bonding and finding this shared

understanding, this common ground that they didn't know that they had. You get these moments that Sebastian is so crucial to. the movie in terms of both the plot and the character arcs that it's almost astounding, but I loved every second of it, like with blood sports, fear of rats, and what we learn about that history, you know, his father putting him in in the cage, yes. And the trauma and like the terror that he feels, but then also, again, as is the key to the movie, the way that the serious notes are, there's at least this attempt, right, and this consistent attempt throughout to imbue those moments with humor, dark comedy, like when he shouts, I'm an assassin.

Why would I share my liabilities about the fear? But then it, Cleo saying, oh, you know, he always wants to be near you of, Sebastian. I think he senses good in you. And he does. He does sense that good in him. And he's right. I just love it. And I thought, this is a tiny thing, but I just want to shout this out. Giving Sebastian a costume, you know, putting him in like the little vest, the little jacket, the little red jacket, the little like holster, so you could always identify him in the swarm because I was so worried about him. I was so worried about it.

When he jumped into Starro? Oh my God. When they jump into Staro, like they jump in the Starl, and I figure, okay, well, all these rats. Yeah, I'm like, all of these rats are going to, they're going to be deceased. Would you forgive, would you forgive James Gunn if he killed off Sebastian? Fuck, no, no.

I would carry that for a long time. And many animals perished in this movie, right? Yeah, I'm tired about polka doming. Wait, wait. For real, before we get off, Kim Shark, guys, you miss the cutest King Shark moment. The one that I related to them both, I'm like, I'm King Shark.

When he goes to the little, like, aquarium, and he sees the little jellyfish guys, and he's, like, friends, and the jellyfish keep, like, pretending they're them. And I'm just like, oh, I'm King Shark. I just want friends. And then they get out and they start eating him. I was just, like, mood, like relatable.

I loved King Shark. He just wanted friends. And honestly, like, Sebastian at the end, when Sebastian crawls on my man, Bloodsports little, like, incredible thigh, and like Bloodsport doesn't like, doesn't like get too freaked out.

And he starts like petting him. I'm like, oh, that's what you want to see. That's what you fucking want to see in a movie. We're going into cute overload, but I do want to say something that is very important. This is what the last movie was missing. And I'm being serious. The last movie was,

it was and the last movie had in a way a lot higher emotional stakes you had uh flags relationship with enchantress and they were in love and he was doing anything but the connection didn't really feel as their connection didn't seem like it was as loving or even as important as the connection

between king shark and uh and and rat catcher two or rat catcher two and blood sport like it seemed like at the end, you believe that these people cared about each other and you cared about them because they cared about each other. And that worked. So you are so spot on with what you said about King Shark. King Shark at first, he's funny. He's going to eat her. And then they're all in the club and they're dancing and having a good time. And he's in the van because he's a big

fucking shark. And he can't be anything other than a big fucking shark. You know what I mean? And so I dug it. I really feel it. Anytime you put little stuff in that, and that's the difference between filmmakers. This is not slight to David Eyre or anything.

The difference between filmmakers is they're able to kind of grab you and bring you into a character. In much the same way that James Gunn was able to do with Peter Quill. The story of Peter Quill and Guardians is essentially the story of a kid who lost his mom and how he finds his way and not the world, but in the galaxy. Like a kid, and we keep coming back to a kid who lost his mother, who like lost his mom. That's a human thing that people can kind of get their arms around. Being an outcast and not feeling like you have anyone, being alone, these are human things

that superheroes are feeling. And that's, for anyone that's looking for a masterclass on how you make these movies, make these characters, and then the movies just follow. I love the Snyderverse as much as one can love the Snyderverse but Zach doesn't give a fuck about that you know what I mean? I actually would say that this

if people like want a blueprint I think the thing that James Gunn did very well in this movie he makes us believe in like Starro I actually didn't think Starro was the villain I actually had multiple moments felt bad for Starro I was just like oh my God Like, he's, like, Starro is, is being abused and, like, just wants to escape.

Like, a little rat, the little rat, or, like, King Shark, these are things that should not work in a movie. They should be goofy, but they work because we're just like, oh, like they're like us. Like, I understand Sebastian or I understand King Shark in a way that sometimes I'm like, I think the DC, the DC movies sometimes are afraid to be goofy in that way, are afraid to be, like, earnest and emotional about, like, yeah, guys, we can believe in a talk. walking raccoon and a talking shark or a big giant starfish as long as emotionally were invested in what they're going through. And I thought like Starro's journey especially, I was just like, I understood why this big Kaiju was destroying the city. I understood why like Starro was upset. And I was just like, even when Starro died, I'm like, damn, I feel kind of bad. It's sad. Yes, of course. Well, I think you're, I think you're both exactly right. Like that's, that's the heart of it.

It's the through line of the characters in this movie. It's the through line between this movie and the Guardian's franchise. Think about Quills Losers speech, right? That iconic sequence from Guardian. People who've lost things, right? And that's what I love that sequence. That's what unites them, that looking for that place and that sense of belonging. And so, like, you hear Staro say, I was happy floating, like, watching the stars.

Like, Storrow is a pawn just like the members of, it's devastating. I'm serious. Like, he's about to die. And obviously Starrows, sorry not to jump in now, but like he's, he's about to die. And now he, he doesn't look as vibrant anymore. They fucked over him. He ain't much do nothing. And they brought him in and started like, and started experimenting on him for 30 years.

And the last thing he says before he dies is, yo, I was happy just floating around watching the stars. God, that was fucked up. Yeah, it's devastating. And it's like, what is the, it's interesting too in a movie with the character literally named Peacemaker. And I will say we haven't really talked about Flagg much or the death scene,

but that final line peacemaker, what a joke. Like, I thought that was brutal. in a really impactful and strong way. Like, what is peace for any of these characters? What is the pursuit of peace for them individually and collectively? What does that look like? And can they help each other find it? And, you know, you mentioned earnestness.

And I think that is exactly right. But I loved that because to be able to inject a movie that is so gory and hyperviolent where our guy, we're sitting here talking about how much we love King Shark can we do, how sweet he is and he is. Our guy literally like with the rain splashing and soaking around him behind him on top of him picks up an enemy, rips him in half, and we're just looking at every little bone in his spine and rib in his rib cage, right? He's nibbling on a skull as though it were like, you know, makes me think,

of loki, yeah, you know, like grapes and nuts, like just nibbling on a nut, right? What do we hear about the rats? It's in another flashback that we get out, Cleo, to a lesson from her father. Rats are the lolliest and most despised of all creatures, my love. If they have purpose, so do we all. Now, maybe some people watch the movie and hear that line, they're like, all right, like, that's like pretty cheesy. I loved it. I love it, because you need that. You need that beating heart of substance and purpose and meeting and found family, like found connection. You know, I think that that's one of the things that always draws me to a story like this and the ability to translate that across different genres, vibes, tones, energies, intentions, like,

the characters don't have a sense of place and belonging. They feel alienated from society, other people, their own lives. And to find, like, anything resembling a shared mission or belonging with each other is, like, a gift for them. Our guy, Starro, it's all he wanted. He couldn't find it. You couldn't find it.

Yeah, it's tough. No one let him find it. It's tough, yeah. Man, RIP Starro, man. You're misunderstood, my jean. I want to shout out whoever the actress was who played Ratcatcher too.

Because, like, Vid, you were saying, you were like, Daniela Milker. Yes, you were like, you're like, how did she end up in prison? And she, like, at one point, I do believe she says, like, I can't believe I got caught for a robbery. and it was like, it was a very, very, like...

Yeah, armed robbery that the rats were considered weapons, right? Yeah, and like, it's very, very interesting that James Gunn used that because in the beginning, in a very, very funny scene, like, Bloodsport is yelling at his daughter for the rot, for getting caught. Like, he's not even mad that she staged a robbery. He's mad that she gets caught. And then you're seeing as... And that she stole something she didn't need to steal.

She didn't even get what, like, she's stealing. And he's like, what? It's a, like, you can't just do that on your phone. And then to see what happens with his relationship with a rat catcher and him realizing, like, oh, this is what would happen with my daughter if I'm not on this mission. Like, this is what happens when you don't have a father around. I thought, like, that gave me similar vibes to like Guardians of the Galaxy 2 with like Yandu and Peter Quill of just like learning how to be a father, fathers that like disappear and art there.

Maybe your father, but he ain't your daddy. Yeah, it was just, I love that. I just love those little. But Clea has such a, she has such fond memories of her father, right? And, and misses him and longs for him. And that's part of what the fact that she is so open and finds still such meaning and such guidance in his memory. And in the time that they shared, that's one of the things that is so crucial ultimately

for Bloodsport. And he's like quite clearly, even in the moment hearing this story from her for the first time, I'm very touched by it. And then it starts to help him unlock not only how he has failed, but how he can be better, what he will try to do for her on this mission to keep her safe. And then I loved her response. Like, I'm going to be the one who keeps you alive, right? Which ended up being true.

And of course, that's what a team is. You watch each other's backs, right? It's not just any one person saving everyone else. And then, like, the moment, the payoff of Bloodsport's daughter, seeing him on the news. and like going from shouting at each other about this embarrassment to pride. That's quite a road to travel in the span of two hours

where we're with dozens of characters. Yeah. And what a good little actress Storm Reed is. She always brings it. She's always brings it. I will say the nastiest thing though, last thing, when the rats, they use the rats as a blanket,

I had to look away. I was like, this is nasty thing I've ever seen in the history of cinema. That was like, oh. I actually was, I was fucking with the rats. by the end. They were great. Awards.

Okay. All right. This is the meat of it. This is what we like. Okay. This is what we do. All right. Our first award for Suicide Squad,

2021, James Gunn. He's back. He's doing this thing. Is favorite scene. Favorite scene. We're going to start with Mao. Now, what was your favorite scene of this entire? My favorite scene

is the. bar sequence, the drinking sequence, the hangout at the gentlemen's club. Here's why. It had a little bit of the Avengers Schwarma Stinger energy and the Age of Ultron Avengers Tower party energy appeal to it, which is like our characters hanging out being people. Jason and I used to talk about this on Benjamin Marvel all the time. Like that's just such a crucial thing to get that moment to linger with these characters and see them as individuals. That's part of why I like the TV shows so much. You just get more time. And so when you get a moment like that in the movie, it always feels like a really precious little gift to me. And again, in a movie particularly defined so, so fully

by the action, it was like nice to have that little bit of like a quiet moment, that little moment of chill. They're ordering for net, you know, passing the time until thinker shows up. I love when flags like, come on, Bob. This could be our last drink. Sebastian wants to drink. He's in on the fun. Sebastian gets a drink. He gets it. Flag saying, here's the being alive in three hours.

They take their shots. They laugh. They dance. Pokedat man is envisioning everyone. And once again, is his mother out on the dance floor. It's super intense. And then you get that just devastation of like the cuts to Nanaway, who looks so alone, sitting in the bus, waiting, longing for this friendship and this

belonging, I really liked that part. That's my pick. Yeah. Charles? I think it has to be the beach scene because I think James Gunn, at his best, does stuff in superhero movies that we've never seen done or we don't think like someone has like the huts buzz to do. You know what I mean? I think we saw that in Guardians of the Galaxy with the prison escape scene and like I got the same vibes of like, oh, there's not another superhero movie that is so bold that they will kill off all these characters. There are there's going to be jokes. Like, there's going to be sadness

when Rucker was like, I think his character with Savant was like swimming away. They're like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And he's like, no, I'm not going to die like that.

The birds got their revenge with Savant, you know, nibbling on the brainstem. I just think of level of difficulty of like doing something that we've never seen in a superhero movie is so high. So I think that has to be like my favorite scene.

Now, my favorite scene is not nearly the best scene in the movie, but my film geek jumped out of me. at this scene because there's a shot in there that's just so fucking sick to me. My favorite scene is going to be the fight between Flag and Peacemaker. It's a very consequential fight. It's redeeming it in a lot of ways from Flagg who kind of came off a little bit like a wet blanket in the first movie and he's standing against Peacemaker and they're going

toe to toe. And I love a good rumble. But there is a fight that James does when Peacemaker's helmet falls off. and he mirrors the fight off of the helmet. I'm sitting here like, get in your bag, J.G. Get in your bag. I'm telling you, you don't just set your camera and say action. Your camera is a character.

That's the difference between hero and hack. Your camera is a character. And that camera is picking up that shot off there And it gives it this weird ethereal type of look and tone and movement It's a little warped Like this fight is a little warped Like this moment is a little warped This teammates fighting over this

You see it out of the camera You can't get it. I loved it I watched it. That's the one that I rewatched the most So that was my that was my favorite team I thought that was badass Badass right there Okay, so we did favorite scene. I chose an action scene.

The second one is, what's your favorite action sequence? It has Peacemaker versus Flag on there. I won't choose that one. I already use that one. So I'm going to say my favorite action sequence, which I really liked, was Harley's Escape. Like, Harley's Escape was really well done. And I love it when they talk about,

when they show just what a badass Harley Quinn is. And just the fact that she doesn't need anybody's saving. those guys are chum. They're nom-n-noms, as Nanaway would say. They're num-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-s. She just eats them up, saves herself. I loved it. Gets her javelin.

I loved her relationship with the javelin. We haven't even talked about the javelin, who's basically a member of the squad. So that was my favorite pure action sequence besides someone that I named before. That's actually my pick, too. You know, and I think it's awesome that Mardo Robbie did her own stunts for that. But for the sake of variance inside of the category,

I will go with the climax, specifically like the Yotenheim sequence from the moment when our guy, Pocodot man, unleashes his Pocodots into the grocery store bag of bombs. And we realized how everybody got to where they were in the prior sequence and the timelines come back together again. Because I think there's a version of the movie where that's like needlessly convoluted and a little bit annoying. but I thought it was pretty fun and fulfilling to see the mechanics of it stitched together. So seamlessly, the water gushing,

you're like very sure on the one hand that the characters will find a way to escape as the top of the tower is sliding, but also there is such decimation all around. And then when Staro escapes, you know, and we've seen already to that point how like the hosts are, taken how these progeny latch on, how, how, you know, horrifying that is. But when they are

unleashed in droves, you know, Star lifts up a, I don't know, an arm, a fin, what is it on a ton of starfish, an appendage? And hundreds, thousands of these progeny fly out. And there's like a moment where it's almost tranquil. It's like almost beautiful. It looked like like like birds in flight, starlings, and a swarm. And then 30 seconds later, they're turning a vast swath of the city into, in essence, like zombies, right? Just an infected army of hosts. So all of that, moving between the different sequences and characters, the violence of it,

the harmony of it across the different sets, very cool. And of course, we entered Yotenheim with the rain, which was early. That was a badass shot too. Yeah. Yeah. That was a badass shot too. Chuck, what about you? You know, for variance sake, I think I'm going to choose when Bloodsport like comes down, crashes down.

He sees peacemaker. They pull out the guns. The bullet goes through each other because I'm just like, that is a director shooting. Like, he's picking a shot. Like early in the movie, this is Chekhov's gun. They make a joke about the smaller bullet. It happens. I was like, this is so dumb.

Like, it reminded me of like, won. when they could like curve the bullets. And I just love dumb shit like that. I love when they do dumb stuff with guns. So I'm going to pick that for very sake. Shout out to what was the movie with, what was the wanted. Remember wanted?

That's what I said, Wanted when they were curving the bullets. When they were curving the bullets. Teach each other how to curve the bullets. To each other to curve the bullets. Amazing. Great graphic. Okay movie.

Great graphic, though. Great graphic. Wanted ones. All right, favorite needle drop. This one's easy for me. I'm going to go first. Can't Sleep. Whatever that song.

was, I went out and found that song when they were in the in the gentleman's club, to your point. That song was getting in my soul. It had everybody dancing. Peacemaker was dancing, surprisingly fluid for the fact that he's 375 pounds all muscle.

You know, you have polka dot man out there dancing with all of those versions of his mom, poor bastard, rest and peace polka dot man. But I like that little joint. That's like, they're more important ones, obviously, but like, you know, Harley-Hadwell, Graywood, and something, but I like that little joint. I love party scenes with characters dancing around and having a good time.

Great pick. Mine is, I'm going to go with the opening track, Folsom, Prison Blues, Johnny Cash, because I just was like, okay, we're back in a James Guns superhero movie, right? Like that instant signal and familiarity coming off of Awesome Mix, Volume 1 and Awesome Mix Volume 2 of the role that rock songs, pop songs, needle drops are going to play. It's a riot to watch the movie on HVMX with subtitles on, because of the number of times it's like rock music kicks in. Rock music continues.

It's just great. I love it. I love it. So that's my pick, just that instant signal and familiarity. I'm going to pick worst needle drop because it reminded me of a dark time in my, in my development as a music writer. but the Fratelli song when Harley Quinn is

having that daydream or whatever it is with Luda, I was just like, this is a band from like the Pitchfork era that I heard about it. I was like, the Fratelli's,

have you heard them? They're great. And then I heard the song and I was just like, am I in high school? Why are we playing this in a super era movie? Like, what is?

I'm like, am I that old where like music I was listening to in high school? Like, yeah, Ring on Music Show. You guys can hear more analysis like that on the Ring of Music Show

with Charles Holmes. He's going to be getting into Donda pretty soon whenever Kanye West drops. Oh, yeah. The Midnight Boys are coming on for Donda. Yeah, your kids might be in high school by the time Donda drops. Yeah, he fucking around.

Oh, my God. Did the soundtrack feel like as successfully integrated and executed in this movie as they did in the two Guardians' movies to you guys? They're so elemental to the Guardians' films. No way. Yeah, the Guardians' movies. And also the songs in the Guardians' movie

beyond, you know, yeah, a different level. Johnny Cash, not with Sandy, but the, you know, the songs in the Guardians. I don't even think it's just the song, like in the Guardians movie, like the songs are a character. Like the whole,

absolutely, the movie is not a movie. If you don't have that. So no way. Unbelievable stuff. Favorite bit or joke in the movie. Mal, I'll start with you. It's a lot of contenders here.

I'm going to go with Cleo Loving to Sleep because it's, not only relatable, but it led to a couple real chuckles. I enjoyed when we meet her for the first time. She doesn't want to get out of bed. And Waller and everyone's appalled, but the peacemaker just says, like, soaked in derision, millennials. And then later when the Nawa is about to eat her and she is still just snoozing away

and Sebastian, what a pal rallies everyone. And Bloodsports like, how deep of a sleeper are you? I enjoyed that. That made me laugh. I think my runner-up would be Harley's many death threats to the thinker, you know, if we find out you have personal license plates. That's hilarious. Right. That's hilarious. That's legitimately funny. Chuck, what about you? Anything, anything with Bloodsport and Rats? That to me, like, I can't, because it's like, it's Idris Alba. He's handsome. He's jacked. And, like, when, like, they find out he's, like, scared of friends. They're just like, why, why did you tell us? He's like,

like I'm an assassin. And I was just like, this is the best. Like, I love you, man. Mine was Milton. Yo, man, recipe's Milton. What the fuck was Milton thinking? This was too mean. The Milton thing was beyond the pale.

It was too cold. Milton. And by the way, there was a moment where I, because Milton comes and then Milton's around. And then there's a moment. By the way, great. That is a great role. if you're an actor out there and you just get to be with those that is a great role just for anybody to land you're for like two minutes 20 minutes 30 minutes you're in the suicide squad and like you're just like you're in the suicide that's a great role for somebody but i like to just because i like it because i'm watching the movie and i'm like you know what the fuck why is he still with him like why they running in this thing and i see he him with them. I'm like, why is he still with them? And I rewind the movie to go back and see

if he serves any purpose or like why he's actually with him. And when he dies, what's what's what says? Milton was still with us? What was Milton going to do? You know what? Very tough. And it's yeah, it was like, it's true though. Like what was Milton going to do? Wait, let me defend Milton real quick. Like, have you ever let your boy bar your car? And you're like, all right, when am I going to get my car back? So you just have to start doing shit with him? and you're like, why am I here? Like, I felt like, and it's like,

when am I going to get my bus back? Like, he's like running after the keys. Like, guys, I need, like, I got errands to do. When do I get my bus back? Yes, very true. All right. Most surprising death and least surprising death.

Charles, what's up? Most surprising had to be Pete Davidson. I thought the way Pete was moving out here, I thought I was like, oh, my man, this is it a superhero movie. All right? It's go. We got our next comedic star.

And then they killed him. I was like, goddamn, man. You didn't even last 10 minutes. So I'm going to go with Pete Davidson. Least surprising. Oh, man. I'm going to go with Pocodon, man. No way he was coming out alive.

I have the same two picks. I was just like, there's no way Pocot Man's getting out. Like, he did work. He got busy in this. But I was just like, by that I'm like, oh, Star was killing him. Yeah. Yeah. Those same two picks for you, ma'am.

Same two picks. Yeah. My most surprising death was Rick Flagg. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I didn't expect them to kill. As a matter of fact, when the stinker came, I knew that it would be peacemaker, but part of me thought, part of me hoped that it would be Rick Flagg. Like, I didn't think that Rick Flagg would die in this movie.

Like, they decided to kill off Rick Flagg. Maybe we'll find out Rick's alive one day. Maybe we'll find out Rick is alive one day. The least surprising death to me, Star-o. Yeah. I knew that they would not let the, I knew that they would not let the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Juju, uh, live to, to kajus always die unless there, unless Godzilla turns them good. Like, kaiju's suffer the fate of, we really kill kajus out here, man. Shout out to Pacific Rim. Favorite random or unique moment. I'm going to go first here, over here projector.

Oh, great pick. Great moment. Great pick. Love to that. Eighth grade Greek mythology class I was in a Greek mythology class They had an eighth grade I would take all classes like that that they had There was a overhead projector That everybody else would get to run

The overhead projector During Greek mythology So you helped tell the story You got to do this like It was your turn to do it Every now and again I wanted to run the overhead projector More than anything right

So what happened was I was about to sit down and this kid named Manuel pulled my seat out from under me. And when he pulled my seat out from under me, I fell. And I got up and I looked at him and he was laughing.

I beat him. Whoa. So I looked at him and he was laughing. And I'm thinking to myself, yo, I'm about to fuck you up. Like, what's so funny? And so I beat him up, right? And it happened that the teacher came in

as I was beating him and saw this, sent us both down there, I did not get my chance to turn the thing on the overhead projector. And that's the last time I actually saw one. We didn't have them in high school. The last time I actually saw one, it made me think about this story.

It's the last time I actually saw an overhead projector. I didn't get to run the film strip or change the little slides as I had been looking forward to all month because this punk provoked me. What was I supposed to do? My tailbone was hurting. I was in a rage.

I told her like, he started. Wait, did anybody laugh? Did anybody else laugh? Hell yeah. Oh, yeah. It would have been on site. I'm sorry.

It would have been. Yeah, it was like, hell yeah. I looked at him like, he was crazy. I was like, yo, in the eighth grade, I was like six feet,

like 210 pounds. I looked at him like, yo, I'm about to fuck you up. But he cost me my time with the Orem projector. So as soon as I saw it, I'll harken back to that. That's a sidebar for you guys. There are so many things about you, Van, that I don't understand.

But as we do more of these episodes, I'm starting to get you as a person. Right. Right. It's a true story. All right. So you guys now, who else? Now, what's your favorite? Or what the fuck moment?

You know, it's a tough question and a tough category because I think in a way the entire movie is a collection of what the fuck moments, right? That's part of its charm. I will go with, in the spirit of the exercise, the recurring polka dot man view that we get of his mom as every character around him. That was harrowing. Shocking and harrowing every time we saw it. So that's my pick.

What about you, Charles? Yeah. Mine, I don't even know if this is canon, but they said a lie that alluded to it, that thinker potentially had sex with Staro. And I was just like, This is... What?

What? I thought. Like, there was like a little line about, like, when he was torturing Staro and having his way with Staro. I was just like, was this sick bastard having sex with this poor-ass alien? And then when Starrot killed Thinker, I was like, thank God. Like, oh, yes. So I don't know if that was canon, but I was very disgusted by that, by that part.

I miss that. Like, I miss that. Oh, yeah. That was funny, too. Shout out to TD. when rat catcher says to thinker, do you want rats crawling up your ass? And he goes, my answer might surprise you.

That's what I'm saying. They made him like a sicko. He was like a purve. Like he was like a sicko. Like, I hated thinker. I was glad when he died. Okay. Favorite Easter egg.

There are some here that you can choose from. Apparently, the Suicide Squad creator, cameos is the doctor during Savant's implant scene. James Gunn's brother. James Gunn's brother plays Weasel. him turn up in a lot of James Guns productions. Mantis from the Guardian's. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, Mantis from Guardian plays a dancer at the nightclub. Yeah, like, so, you know, the Guardian. So, you know, Michael Rooker, I always see, I love seeing Michael Rooker around. I love seeing Michael Rooker around. But my favorite. A lot of Marvel D.C. crossovers in this movie. A lot of Marvel D.C. crossover. Shouts to Heimdahl.

My mind is going to be PolkaDat Man because he was also in the Dark Night. He played one of the Joker's crazy guys. These are the kind of guys that the Joker. And the reason why is because when I first saw his face, I was like, yo, what the fuck do I know him from? I know this face and I know it.

And then I started looking and he had been in a lot of things that I've seen, but I remember him as the crazy guy from the Dark Night. The actor who plays Pocodat Man, you're talking about. He was an ant man. He's Kurt, in Ant Man. He's part of the crew.

He's part of the crew in Ant Man as well. Yeah. He's been in your life even more recently. Yeah. Yeah, he's part of the crew. He's getting work in these superhero movies.

When I looked him up, I was like the Dark Night, but you know what? It might be the Ant Man thing as well. Yeah, Kurt as an Ant Man. Because I like that little crew. You know, I don't think, I think they probably kicked TIE out the crew.

Cool. But I love. I like that little crew. What about you guys? Mine is probably, this came up earlier today, but the gorgeous Corto Maltese is a setting,

the callback to the 80s, to Tim Burns, Batman, Vicki Vale, the photos, Time Magazine cover shoot, you know, out there,

chronically the revolution. Yeah, yeah, Vicki Vale. Mine's probably James Gunn be a master P. Like, James Gunn is going to make sure

his boys eat. Like, you've related it. James Gunn. If you ever done a movie with James Gunn, he's going to get you a check, man. Whether it's his brother, whether it's Michael Rucker, whether it's Stallone, whatever. He's just like, you know, come on, get this, get this Warner Bros.

check. I appreciate that. Yeah. And we got a shout out Stallone. Stallone was great as King Sharp. He really was. He really pulled one from the Vin Diesel fucking Bradley Cooper. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

He's, he really... They need to drop the behind the scenes of him doing all of his not way, not way recordings. I just want to see him in a studio making all those movies. All right. So we have a Sebastian versus

category here, but I'm going to pair it down to just one because I think this is absolutely the most important one. Okay. Sebastian in this movie versus the rat in Avengers end game. Get out of here with this nonsense.

Come on. What do you mean? Because this is not close. And I'm offended by the question. This is, okay, the end game. rat. Sure, yes, deserves credit for saving the world. But let's be real. The entire universe,

man. Okay. Why is the way? My guy is just skittering about. I don't give a little. It's either coincidence, which again, thanks for the assist. We're all appreciative. But it's either coincidence or some sacred timeline shenanigans, if we're being honest, okay? Which which it might be. Sebastian is a lord. He is so sweet. He is so brave. He is insightful. He is a keen study of human nature.

He's the key to the heart of the film. He's choosing to do the things that he does, and he's doing them with heart and intention and chivalry and nobility. And I love him. And I can't wait for my Sebastian. All right. Wait, so now they didn't have this, but this is going to be a tough one.

Sebastian or Remy from Rattahooey. You know, we did get a Rattitouy call out in this movie, which I appreciated. I just, oh, God, I'm going with Sebastian. Really? Yeah, I was honestly just like showtaken. I love Remy. I love Remy.

You made me pick. I'm not attacking Remy. Remi told us to believe in ourselves. I can't believe this. So did Sebastian. So did Sebastian. Look at what he, look at what he unlocks. But what Remy had to go through.

Remy had to be a gourmet chef and they wouldn't let him. All Sebastian had to do is just be a G and be friends with each of SEPA. I love and support, Remy. But you made me pick, whether it's recency bias or not. Sebastian, like, much like he and his fellows nod their way through all of the connective tissue and sinews and arteries and veins and brain tissue inside of sorrow, Sebastian nod his way right into my heart as well. Okay. And that's where he's going to stay.

I'm going to tell you guys something. I'm going to be for real with you. Like, seriously. The rat from endgame is the most consequential rodent. Get the fuck out of here. In the history of film. Get out of here. The rat and end game.

None of it happens. Every single, you want cap grabbing me in the ear, got to have the rat. You want on your left, got to have the rat. You want Tony piecing it up with his dad before. things got to have the rat. Like, you gotta have the rat. If the rat doesn't rat across the thing, and by the way, your second time got, your second timeline point is well taken.

Because we don't, we don't even know it could fucking have been fucking, uh, immorice over there and letting the rat loose and or mortis could have fucking been the rat. We don't even know. We have no clue. We don't know what happened. But y'all hating on the endgame rat. The end game rat is the best rat. Great rat. But, you know, to choose. All right. MVP of the movie. We will start with Mal and work our way. Actually, let's start with me. So, Mal's got Sebastian already. We're going to start with now. Now,

who's the MVP of the movie? No, I mean, it is, it is actually. It is Sebastian. I knew when I knew Sebastian since Good and you for a reason. It's, it's, that's, that is my, my honest pick and the one I want to make, but I think it's got to be Bloodsport. What a showing from, from Edress. It's incredible. And shouts to Harley. I think Sebastian, Cleo, Harley, and Bloodsport

all deserve real consideration here, as does, of course, the monster between Luna's, Luna's legs. Shouts once more. I give Harley, I wouldn't put Harvey, Harley, Harvey, whoof, thinking about my old job. I wouldn't give, I wouldn't put Harley.

I would say Harley is a strong, strong ironclad six man. Because, because, like, ironclad six man, she is the most important, but she's kind of, she's along for the ride in a way until the end

of the film that's like really, really interesting and I think super inventive, and I love that about it. And I love the fact that Margot Robbie jumped into the movie like that too, because you know, Harley Quinn has been a leading character for her. So, it's dope. Charles, what about you?

Oh, it has to be Idris. It has to be Bloodsport. My man, my man had to go up against Will Smith. He had to make us care about this character that before this, nobody cared about. Like, the movie doesn't work without Idris, without its emotion, without his acting. Like, James Gunn with the cool-ass suit. Like, it has to be Bloodsport. Like, Edris killed it, man.

Do you got Idris' number, man? No, I don't have his number. Damn, he just hates you. No, I want to send him a nice fruit basket. You know what I'm saying? saying he did a good job. I don't have this number. So of the MVP candidates that we had, which were pretty well set

out, it was Harley, Sebastian, Idris. Nanaway too. Nanaway as well. We haven't talked. Let's put Cleo and Sebastian together. Rackettcher and Sebastian together. The heartbeat of the movie there, really. Of all those, I got to go

with Bloodsport. Yeah. Bloodsport. Bloodsport was the guy. Bloodsport was up there. Bloodsport is obviously the pick. of the movie. Right here, we have the fact that this film is killing it on Rotten Tomatoes and is among the best reviewed movies in the DCEU with it having

91% rating. So that puts it among the top three reviewed DCEU movies, which are Wonder Woman, this film, and Shazam, which is another good movie that for some reason people didn't run to the theater. Shazam is amazing. But Ackerman is, We can't get Aquaman in there. Aquaman was great. Aquaman doesn't have that same rating, though.

Who cares about Ron Tomatoes is fake. But anyway, continue. But people didn't have that same reaction to Aquaman. It's been made like over a billion dollars. I love Aquaman. I like it. I dug it. I thought Aquaman was great.

I think people are a little too stuck up with stuff. Go and have a good time. The guy fucking talks to fish. All right. What does this movie rank? And what do you think it did for the DCEU as a whole? Does this movie even matter in the grander scheme of the DCEU? It's almost like a one shot.

It's not quite a sequel. It's not quite a reboot. What does this film exist to you in the bigger landscape of the DCEU? Mao, you go first. People are going to be mad. You go first. You go first. Boy.

Oh, boy. Probably in my top three personally for DC EU movies to date. Definitely. I'd say my top four and three. some order is Shazam Aquaman Suicide Squad and the first Wonder Woman.

I really enjoyed this movie and yeah, I think it's a boon and it's a boost for the DCU. I mean, I think that every good movie that comes out and every movie that generates like it's not just about the Rotten Tomatoes score or the positive critical response

or whatever the boxoff or Net or HBO Max leadership is, it's about the excitement, right? There's like something intangible and something very,

very tangible about a movie that animates joy and conversation. That is one of the things that D.C. has really been missing, like that people are excited

about watching and sharing the movies. And people love, of course, many of these movies and love, love, love, the characters

and the stories, like the attachment and lifelong for many of the movies. readers and viewers attachment as part of what then can spark disappointment in certain cases. So a movie that broadly, no one will ever, not, people won't always all ever agree, but broadly is sparking a lot of positivity and like the desire to discuss it and watch it and then watch it again, that's a win for DC, which has been light on positive brace and wins,

exactly. Chuck? I think it's going to be top three. I think Wonder Woman, I would say it's probably tied with Shazam. It's probably tied. And then like Aquaman and third, like it's easily like just,

yes, very easily just in the top three. I don't, like I'm more pessimistic in that I don't know if like the higher ups will learn like the right lessons from Suicide Squad. I think that they might see like

the box office to be like, all right, that was a cool experiment, but now we're going to go do this thing. And I do think, if you look at like our top threes, whether it's Aquaman or Wonder Woman or Shazam and now Suicide Squad, it's like, hey, guys, just make like fun movies that embrace the zany nature of comic books. Like, everything doesn't have to be serious. Just get like a very talented

director to do his thing. I trust the creatives. Do I trust like the people with the purse strings to be like, oh, no, like we've learned now because like Wonder Woman 1984 is like a perfect example of like, oh, they still, it's not, they're not on solid ground yet. I hope they will be soon. I really, really do. I think that this is, like, a good direction. I hope they're, like, they, even if James Gunn's not directing,

I hope they, like, have him on speed-dow being like, hey, man, these other movies, how do he make them fun? He's definitely coming back for more. I think that seems pretty clear from the press tour and, you know, comments on all sides, you know, that he's, obviously, again,

he's making the peacemaker show, but that he's going to be making more movies. And I think that's, like, that definitely you're right is one of the takeaways, like, you know, trust the creators, trust the directors. But I think one of the Marvel lessons clearly is that that has to happen inside of the continuity of the machine.

And that's part of what they've yet to crack here. How can both of those things be true at once? You know, we've mentioned the first suicide squad movie, the 2016 film in David Err couple times. Like, for anybody who hasn't read his comments, his recent comments about what happened with that movie and how that is not the film that he made, it's like really heartbreaking, you know. And I think that the. way that he and James Gunn have been able to support each other and each other's projects and

speak positively about the desire to make good movies that fans can enjoy moving forward has been heartening to see. And in all of the interviews that he's doing, like, James Gunn is talking a lot about the fact that, again, as we mentioned earlier, they're like, go make the movie you want to make. Now, does that always net out in a success? Of course not. But if you can have that, like, confidence and harmony of vision and storytelling and tension. What movies are you trying to make and why? What is the overall plan and how will you enact it? And then within that, you introduce that tonal and genre variance and that character variance.

And each director can bring their specific style and flare to the stories. That will be a lot better than what has unfolded over the last few years. I agree with that. also think that that is the science project that Marvel is nailed. And it's interesting. You know, yeah, I think you have guys like Josh Wheaton who, after his experience on age of Ultron was, were clearly, clearly disheartened with the way that Marvel makes movies. You could tell that it was bothering him in a little bit.

He was talking about it a little bit in interviews. He comes over to D.C., you know, he gets pulled on to Justice League. and he can't fix Justice League. So whatever's going on there is not solely about the filmmaker. It's not solely about the higher ups that are trying to create the flow that makes their universe coherent and tight. It seems to be a perfect match of both of them. That's why when you have a film like Suicide Squad, where there's a guy who gets to do whatever he wants, and he makes a really moving, really fun, really violent, really experimental,

a really hilarious film, you have to take your hat off to that. It does make you wonder, though, somewhere to me is like, how can a film like this fit into something bigger? Is it even meant to fit into something bigger? Do they have an idea of how it's going to fit into something bigger? Do they have what they need to, like,

harness in a James Gunn? It's put you like this. You couldn't have 10 movies like this, just like you could, just like you couldn't have four movies like Zach tried to do, or three or whatever it was. You need total shifts and all of that, just like you said.

And I don't know if D.C. is in a position to really nail that down. Because as much as we don't want to say it, that's a Kevin thing. That's the genius of that guy and the way that they figured that out. But, you know, James is going to say that he wants to do a little bit more in terms of like the villain verse. He wants to do more stuff with their villains. I say, let them. Now, I'm not going back to see another two and a half hour brooding tale of how some crazy guy becomes a Joker. One time.

One time. It was brilliant. It was brilliant. Like one time. Next time, instead of going to see a movie like that, like you always say this. I'm just going to stand at the end of my block and tell people to come. come up and kick me in my nuts over and over and over again. I saw the movie once.

It was amazing. I'm not putting myself through that again. That shit was hard to watch. I felt for that guy. All right. One time. But if we want to have fun, cool,

a lot of zany cool villains out there. DC has some really, really great villains, you know. I wouldn't mind seeing like a fucking Riddler movie. He's funny. He's zany. He goes crazy.

He sends people riddles. We're getting Riddler in the Matt Reeves Batman. Can't wait. Matt Reeves Batman is, is I'm scared. Oh. You scared? You don't,

you have no faith in Robert Pattoncy? My boy? I can't wait. So I got it. It's not that I is not that it's not that. It's not that I'm not excited. I'm super excited. Super excited.

I'm a little scared. I've heard some things. I've heard some things. You know, I'm a little scared. just a little bit. I will say this, if DC can't get Batman right,

like if they don't get this next Batman movie right, the nails in the coffin. Like, because that's the only one they've consistently, like, hit out of, like, home runs. We should say, though, just that that,

that movie has been, like, separated and severed from the DCEU. Technically, it's a different continuity. I just think, like, commercially critically, if they can't get Batman right, like,

that means I'm like, I'm pulling the fire alarm. Like, we got a clean house. I think that movie's going to be good. I'm excited. Look, I'm excited for it too, and I hope that it will be good. But hope against hope. We're not putting up.

Hope against hope. All right, guys, Valerie, we are so amazed to have, having you here is always great. It feels like there's an adult in the room. Yeah, yeah. It feels like there's an adult. It's an honor and a privilege to be here with you guys. Because we do have the adult in the room, I can't leave this podcast without asking a very important question, Mallory. Does Daredevil have superpowers or not?

I'm not, I'm not doing this with you guys. We'll get into Twitter. I've enjoyed the tweets. We'll save it for our next team up, man. That's another hour just on that. He has abilities. He has abilities. Superpowers.

He has abilities. Fuck you. All right. That's going to be a wrap on this special Ring ofverse show. Movie Monday on the Suicide Squad. For more of the Suicide Squad content, please check out the movie's exit survey. on the ringer.com.

Follow us, of course, at Ringerverse on Facebook, IG, and Twitter. Follow and share the show. Big reminders. Later this week, the Midnight Boys are back. Mal and the House of Mal is back. Wednesday, we are reacting to Marvel's MCU show on Disney Plus What If?

And we will be giving you instant reactions. And on Friday, the House of Mal will be giving you the deep dives to make you a smarter, more equipped fandom fan. All right. You have to come through. What if? I can tell you guys right now. What if is already driving a wedge?

It's driving a wedge between us over here at the ringer. It's going to be spicy. It's going to be spicy. What if is, before we leave, I'm going to tell you guys something. We're coming into an MCU age of what I like to call contested content. contested content. This is what I'm talking about. We are out of the era where we know these things are going to deliver.

We're in a more experimental era as it relates to shows. We have unproven characters that are coming on the screen. We're now in the era of Shang Shi and what if and the internals. So you guys don't shy away. Don't shy away because the next six months, the next six months are going to be incredibly pivotal

for the future of the MCU. And the ringerverse, it might tear us apart. This might be our Captain America Civil War. It might tear us apart. It might tear us apart. All right. We are out of here.

Shoutouts to our producers. Steve Alman, Jomea, Dideron, Arjuna, Rjuna Ramgouple, and Tunday St. Matthew Daniel, T.D. as we like to call them. We are out.

We appreciate you guys. We can make the show without you. Hey, Charles, do you have anything to take us out with? I do. What you got? Guys, I did not love the suicide squad, but please give me some compassion because I'm just blood sport

and I need y'all to be my Sebastian. Be-boo! That was dope.